Oh What A Wicked Web We Weave
Jul 26th, 2009 by 'holic
Listeners to Sportsweek, on Radio Five Live this morning, will doubtless have been fascinated by what was apparently a carefully choreographed interview between David Davies and Farhad Moshiri, ‘business partner and London representative’ for Alisher Usmanov.
Moshiri was invited to contribute his thoughts on Arsenal’s ability to compete with the ‘biggest clubs’, and fed a string of friendly questions by the almost painfully sycophantic Davies. The ins and outs of what he said are starting to be widely reported, but those with access to BBC iPlayer should listen to the broadcast (the interview starts at 23.30 minutes in and lasts about eight minutes).
As you listen you may want to ask yourself some questions, in the same way I did. Why would the BBC wish to speak to an associate of someone who is not even on the board at Arsenal? Why would David Davies feed deliberately weighted questions to this nobody? Why is there not a contribution from anybody who is actually a spokesman for the club to provide balance and perspective? Then you reach the tail-end and the name David Dein looms large.
Who do you suppose was one of the movers and shakers at the Football Association when Davies became the spokesman for the organisation in 1994, prior to becoming executive director, and more than once acting chief executive. Tough one, eh? Oh no, of course, it was David Barry Charles Dein.
Do you still believe Usmanov has washed his hands of the man who provided him with his first significant shareholding?
117 Responses to “Oh What A Wicked Web We Weave”
Top blogging. Amazed that somebody who has no standing in the game of football, who has no reputation other than that of an associate of the fat Uzbek, and whose opinions count for absolutely nothing, is given such coverage.
Why should anyone care what he thinks?
I read a transcript of the interview and while I share some of your concerns regarding its formulation I do believe that he makes several valid points that I know are concerning for Arsenal fans. I for one am not sorry to see the back of Adebayor but would like to see some real quality added to the squad in the same way that Arshavin was last January. Look at the impact he made throughout the team. If there is no money, which I doubt, then I simply ask where it has all gone as the published figures look pretty good to my uneducated eye. Surely we must invest for the sake of the club’s successful future and not just to please the fans. Success on the pitch will surely bring improved financial results but failure on the pitch will not reduce financial liability.
And as a quick second point. Just because you have no regard for the person, that doesn’t make his views any the less pertinent. Only a fool closes his ears to those he has no respect for.
Only a muppet listens to a single word, Fat & Orange spout. Anyone could make those points. Whether those points have any validity or not remains a matter of opinion. Their reasons for putting them forward are not at all altruistic. They are cunts, simple as that.
Thanks Blogs.
Welcome Chris, and I take your point entirely. It was kind of the motivation for the post. I want people who read that man’s views to question what is behind them.
He made what would have been some very popular statements, although it is no surprise that nobody is quoting his take on the problems facing British clubs that are debt-financed.
I’ve never hidden the fact that I would love to see investment from a benign source. Personally I think we should avoid anything Usmanov has to offer. People will only come to agree if they start to question what is behind the way he operates.
This is just one small example.
…and what Esso said 🙂
I knew this would be the next move from the shady Russian and his Iranian pawn. Fuck off, Usmanov.
The really offensive part is the part where he tries to suck up to Arsene.
Where could I find a copy of the transcript? BBC iPlayer not available over here. Thanks…
Excellent stuff holic, well played young man.
I really hope one of the readers can help you there, Goonrgrrl. I really don’t want to sit through it again and listen to him saying ‘You know’ about a hundred times.
I suspect if I downloaded and reproduced it I would have the Beeb on my case?
Another Ogligarch laundering his ill gotten gains through the EPL
Superb, ‘holic.
I had read an earlier report of this “interview” and had an odd feeling about the comments. Have a MUCH clearer picture of the details of the interview now & understand better why I had such a slimy feeling after reading that first report.
Excelent blog, ‘holic.
An afteroon Guinness?
Good blogging, well said, the ‘holic man.
What Esso said
One thing that did come out from that interview is that Usmanov’s camp is taking talking points and arguments from blogs. The Iranian pawn said so himself. Maybe time for bloggers to be more mindful?
+n
i think this bodes badly. Why is usamnov trying to get this message out? Why is he trying to stir stuff up? If he has no contact with Dein anymore, then it seems more than a little odd that this interview came about when surely this is a ringer for an old boys Dein move.
hmmmm.
All these billionaires milling about, but not a gift in sight. If anyone really gives a toss, let them put up the cash for a £20m player and his booty for 4 years. They can take a cut of his endorsements but won’t “own” him like Joorabchian did the two Argentinians. This doesn’t have to be about owning shares; just about being wealthy and truly caring about the club, by putting money where mouth is. One “marquee” summer signing would be nice and remind people just how big a club we are. I remember how I felt when I heard we’d signed Charlie Nicholas and many years later Dennis Bergkamp. It’d be nice to have a summer feeling like that again, although I’d probably settle for having Flamini back.
interesting point: he says sale of Adebayor was a mistake, and that we will be down a proven Striker next season. fair enough. he also mentions how we will have enough problems due to the ACN making players (such as Toure) unavailable. does he realise that adebayor will also be unavailable during the ACN? all in all, i get the impression he’s been given a script of popular opinions to spout on behalf of F&O, and doesn’t know eff all.
if i were a player, i’d be quite insulted if someone said that i’d have trouble replacing a lanky twat who was offside 43 times last season (for perspective, rvp had 11 offsides).
They must think that we’re completely stupid, spoon-fed cretins.
Unfortunately several of “our” bloggers (present company excepted of course) are exactly that.
The thing that really pissed me off, was when this shady stooge talked about the club and used the term ‘what WE need’.
This club belongs to the fans. It belongs to me, a supporter since i was 5 years old, who watched the 89 Anfield drama with my brother on a black and white TV in our bedroom. This club belongs to a board who have always acted in accordance with what was best for the club.
This club does not, DOES NOT, belong to a fat crook scumbag and his grubby little gimp associate.
Farhad son, you have absolutely no right to use the term ‘we’, no right whatsoever. Remember that, never forget that. Go fuck yourself and then your repugnant master!
Ole Gunner,
it wouldn’t entirely surprise if some of the blogs which have appeared over the last year or two were “50 cent bloggers” put up by those with an interest given their fawning admiration for Fat and Orange and the total absence of financial understanding and maturity of thought.
I think this is more than just fat and orange taking some talking points from blogs.
Many have questioned why the media morons continually single us out for bad press.
Yes, some @rsewipes like mihir bose are just jealous sp#rs fans.
Yes, the media perceive Arsenal as a “foreign” club, and yes some of the media and the fa resent AW because he didn’t want to take the “best job in the world” managing the English NT, but there has to be more to it than just that.
I suppose many in the media are just too stupid to understand economics and also resent AW for not blowing Arsenal’s wad every 10 seconds, but I also suspect that fat and orange have a big hand in stirring the sh!t to try and re-insert dein into the club by fomenting unrest amongst the fans and forcing the board’s hand.
I think fat and orange have never ditched dein, and I also think that dein is now very worried that Gazidis looks like turning out to be a very, very good appointment.
Thus dein has to take any advantage he can find quickly and exploit some of the more celebrally challenged “fans” in an attempt to force his way back in.
Notice that we only hear from fat and orange when there’s “bad news”?
We need to defend the club against these people and the morons who are their pawns.
I think clockendride hmay have a point.
It is all about PR and it is potentially a very effective strategy to whip up the more ignorant masses through placing/paying a few bloggers and their articles to try and create trouble between the fans and the club.
Of course they can point to these blogs as evidence of the problems with the club when talking to the BBC and other established news media.
Usmanov certainly didn’t get that rich by playing fair.
Usmanov is right and so is David Dein.
The Manager has no finance to compete on the market, and the Board keep telling us lies.
The Board is preventing Arsenal from winning the Premiership by refusing to open the shareholding.
They are wrong and they are acting against the interest of the club.
Their declared fear that Usmanov will misuse his position is unfounded. You can control lots of things via a controlled opening of the shareholding.
Their (Current Board) personal interests and the interest of the interest of the club diverges.
How do fat and orange rate as employers ritesh?
What Jackster said.
Excellent stuff ‘holic.
ARSEBLOGGER,
Top blogging. Amazed that somebody who has no standing in the game of football, who has no reputation other than that of an associate of the fat Uzbek, and whose opinions count for absolutely nothing, is given such coverage.
Why should anyone care what he thinks?
If only this guy Arseblogger could realise hes talking about himself here, I mean here we have some pompous twat who resides in Dublin who thinks he knows it all about Arsenal. This prick is the biggest tinter on the net, hes a legend in his own mind.
Hows it going Holic, looking forward to the new season and the struggle for fourth?
I bet you wouldnt want Arsehole to see this post so ill be banned I suppose, later, dude.
Just on the weight of the evidence here Paulie, Arseblog’s opinion seems more valuable than yours. You sounded not only more pompous, but also more twattish, and the vehemence of it suggests you might be a prick.
ritesh,
are you Moshiri?
And paulie from LeGrove?
Hi there ole, would you be the same ole whos been ridiculed and run off numerous sites due to your constant apologies and defending of Wenger, yes I think so. Im deeply saddened and hurt that you would feel that way about me as I value your opinion so highly. Still at least you will score some points with Arseblogger whom you no doubt worship. Later dude.
I didn’t realise Paulie knew what I was thinking and what goes on in my mind.
Can you guess what I’m thinking now, Paulie?
Well said ‘holic. I thought it had taken a while for one of the sane ones to point out the absurdly stigmatised nature of such interviews.
And Paulie, I resent what you say about arseblogger. Any reader of gunnerblog will know I am the biggest tinter around. Arsene Knows. 😉
paulie, why don’t you just get back over to LeGrove and resume moaning and crying there?
Oh and get a hanky for later when you think about Cana et al. You’ll find it can be used for multiple purposes.
Paulie,
You’re in any case a twat. I criticise Arseblog, don’t need any points from him. It just happens to be the case that your comment was infinitely more Twatty, prickish and worthless. Not my fault, blame your silly comment.
But if you ask Arseblog nicely enough he might let you be a legend too. Your part of the bargain would be to make sense….I guessed it, it’d be hard for you wouldn’t it.
[…] first reported by Goonerholic, this morning David Davies of Sportsweek on Radio 5 Live conducted what was obviously a pre-planned […]
OK guys, can we get back to the point. Paulie wanted a reaction, and got one. We all know what he is like. No need to let him drag you all down to his level. Thanks.
Maybe the questions about fat and orange payoffs and “sponsorships” are a bit close to the bone for some?
Originally thought LG was a sp#rs windup.
Then I thought it was a good place to dump all the bed-wetters anyway.
Now I’m really beginning to wonder about the true agenda.
as the booze hound said, back to the point.
Arsenal seem to have about 3 times as many regular blogs than any other fanbase. While I would like to think that is because we are more thoughtful, eloquent and constructively vocal than other fans, reading some of these blogs seems to contradict that. Coupled with the sheer number of them it is reasonable to hypothesize on the concept of planted ‘blogs’.
If it were the case I think the distinct lack of information and impartiality provided by the official site is partly to blame. When a public relations tool seems to offer nothing to the public it is only natural for dubious and ill informed competitors to prosper.
I very much doubt any of the blogs are planted to act as PR tools for F&O, although there’s one well established site that has raised eyebrows a few times with some of the stuff posted in favour of Dein/Usmanov.
If they just started a blog which was pro-F&O it’d be quite obvious. For it to work you’d need credibility, readership, it’d have to be an existing site. Some bloke just setting up and talking about how great Usmanov is would be sussed out straight away.
What I do think though is that some of the PR work they have done appeals to certain blogs who want Championship Manager spending without thinking for a second about the consequences.
It was pretty obvious to me that the BBC interview was just an advert for Usmanov. I didn’t need to listen to know what he was going to say. But saying that other blogs are used as propaganda is a bit below the belt anymore as you could say that pro-Board blogs are exactly the same, everyone has an opinion (as long as it’s is articulately put).
Everyone would like to see more players come in, but to start pissing and moaning before the transfer window closes is a bit sad really. No one knows what Wenger is going to do, if he has funds, if the squad is good enough, etc. etc. Let’s wait patiently to see what is in store.
I guess you’re referring to the site that makes my eyes bleed if I try and read it (the “muse” one).
I seem to recall him being around before dd got all sweaty and uzbekerised.
However, there are definitely sites who are not based on honest discourse about Arsenal.
The sinbad moron sounds like a 12 year old, but I think he’s getting hits for Africa, so it might just be a purely commercial motive on his part.
He certainly isn’t taken seriously by many on the blogs.
LG is an entirely different prospect.
They suddenly had masses of “support”, and were far too organised from the off.
good point blogs.
With a reasonable amount of sensitivity to peoples’ intelligence there is a chance some writers could push a certain agenda though.
Its the old ‘art imitating life’ or ‘life imitating art’ argument really.
Does the advent of Perez, Abramovich and the City investors encourage those fans and writers with an affection for such ludicrous practices or does the ‘Champ Manager’ attitude from said fans encourage such investors to act that way.
Either way its important you guys keep fighting the good fight and push readers into thinking more rationally about issues which are so emotive.
Paulie what gives you the right to personally attack Arseblogger??
Wait, I got it…the Internet!!
Disagree yes, but your primitive style of rhetoric betrays you as a Le Grave minion. I think nearly everyone is tired of their moaning.
I’m sorry, but in the hierarchy of Arsenal supporters you make yourself sound like a parasite. Not saying I’m any better, but I just wanted to point that out.
Where oh where has this new, strange foul breed of Arsenal “fan” come from?
Is it generational? Young, dumb where’s my mum?
Is it a calculated attempt by Uzmanov’s cronies to hire spurz and Chelski fans to write Arsenal blogs in a not so vain attempt to divide the supporters??
Maybe we’ll never know.
Whatever it is , it’s a conspiracy.
arseblogger
are you only saying that because they haven’t asked you?
Goonergrrl was asking about where to find the interview in question.
Sportsweek is podcasted on Itunes and it should be there now.
Why are all gooners so against the fat uzbekistan’s take-over. He actually watches Arsenal play, has a box at the emirates and is prepared to put £100m into a transfer kitty, what am i missing?
The current board which includes an american who has seen us play once have not put a single penny into the club and take dividends out of it annually! why are you all supporting Kroenke when he just wants to do a glazier/gillette number on us.
Please look at the facts and stop being sheep.
“Arsenal” generates the most traffic. Simple as. I don’t know if it’s as a result of a specific demographic trait, (one hypothesis: the type of person who likes blogs and new media also likes Arsenal) or due to fake paid-up fully subscribed bloggers.
Part of the reason the media disproportionately like Arsenal-going-to-the-dogs stories is that it gets a response from Arsenal fans.
steve
you show how much you know about Arsenal, which is nothing which is probaly not surprisng. Arsenal never pay dividends, and the only person to ask for them to do so was your employer, Mr Usmanov
Steve – yes, please do look at the facts.
There hasn’t been a dividend paid out since 1987, now THAT’S a fact, not the crap you came up with.
What makes you assume the rest of us want Kroenke to take over lock stock and barrel?
Who’se the sheep then?
Paul, I’m saying that because it’s what I think.
arseblogger
I think you are being a tad naive. If they can control many of the regular news channels, which they are clearly doing, why would they they not do the same with blogs? Probably much more cost effective.
Paul. I’m not saying it’s impossible but to really have any kind of impact it’d have to be one of the big blogs and I can’t think of one that has gone that way.
Being an out and out cocksucker site for f&o would not work.
Any propaganda artist worth his salt would know that.
However, applying pressure by sowing dissent could easily work amongst the dumber in the community (which it clearly has).
Steve,
First of all Usmanov is not promising “to put £100m into a transfer kitty”. He’s asking all shareholders to stump up money for the club which he says could either be used to pay off debt or buy players.
When you do the calculations- anybody can do it themselves, it’s clear that the savings impact of £100M on Arsenal’s debt payments, yearly would not be enough to buy Vermaelen or Arshavin.
Then it’s not clear what will happen to shareholders who can’t raise £7000-9000 per share to take up their part of a share issue. The likely consequence is that small shareholders will be eviscerated and ownership consolidated in the hands of the billionaires and Usmanov.
Third, despite the lack of transfer activity this season, Chelsea have still spent on average something like £100M a season on players. So, if the goal is to raise transfer funds to “compete” (compete is such a dishonest word to use in this context) with the likes of Chelsea & Real Madrid, what will we do next season? What would we have to do in the future if you think wasting money on unrealistic transfers is how to compete?
Fourth, it will never happen soon enough to change anything this season anyway.
Fifth, and I hope you’re reading this you shady Uzbek, if you want to help Arsenal, you coukld simply buy up the flats remaining to be sold. Excellent real estate assets in London, value can’t go down, you’re guaranteed to make a profit. How about you do that to prove you care about the club?
Sixth, the fat shady Uzbek has asked for a dividend. Every season, the club makes ££10s of millions in profits, all of which are reinvested in the club (which is a way in which the shareholders invest in the club). The Uzbek asked to have the profits redistributed. He’s said his goal of investing in Arsenal is to make a profit. Ok, so now think Glazers. Man poo won 5 trophies in the last 2 seasons, yet still made a huge loss. Why? Because the club is paying for the Glazer’s debt, so the Glazers-the rich sugar daddy are actually taking money out of the club. We don’t want that at the Arsenal.
Actually Steve I have said before I am definitely not pro-Kroenke either. I am against any individual getting control of the club, although I feel it is inevitable one day. As long as the eventual ‘winner’ doesn’t use debt-financing to line his own pockets then that is as much as we can hope for.
You say Usmanov will put £100m into the transfer kitty. Where is it then? Nobody will turn down a freely given donation. Knowing, as he does, that the property arm is ‘creating’ the current prudence of the football club, he could even use that money to increase his property portfolio and relieve some of the pressures the club is facing.
You know why he won’t take that apparently sensible approach? I suggest to you because he does not want to strengthen the position of those who are currently keeping him at bay on the current board, even though it would provide him with a tangible asset.
So don’t tell me he is willing to give us money for nothing. That is more spin. His actions don’t match the words of those who speak for him.
Thanks for taking time to explain yourself succinctly though. I appreciate that. We’re not sheep here.
…or what Ole said 🙂
Heh!
Arseblogger
They can plant a few posters for a start with or without the bloggers consent. Some would be willing anyway as it boosts there visitor counts, and also because it suits their agenda. Also agree with Mike that one particular blog seemed a little too PR savvy (the people running it claim to be marketers too). And then there our friend Leopold who I wouldn’t at all be surprised about being ‘influenced’ by promises of fame and fortune.
The net effect has generally has been a lowering in the quality of a number of blogs in order to keep up, as bad news sells. There are of course some notable bastions against this trend, which would of course include our current hosts.
Without wishing to derail a good debate, can anyone tell me what is being said on twitter that is causing so many people to come here from there today?
Thanks, and welcome to you all. I have to say it is one area I have steered clear of, for various reasons. It does mean I am out of the loop though.
And curious…
Beware of fat shady Uzbeks bearing “gifts”.
I linked to this post from Twitter, ‘holic.
Paul. Posters on sites, undoubtedly, but not the whole blog. Leopoldo did raise some eyebrows but he seems to be too much of a Stan fan to be in the F&O camp.
Arseblogger – Leopold is a groupie who follows the biggest …….
Which is strangely maybe good news as even he sees Stan as being in pole position , which he clearly is.
Not that I’m a particular Stan fan myself (don’t know what he’s up too but seems to have some sort of track record) but certainly better than the man from Uzbekistan ( there seems to be a strong ‘stan’ stance here).
Thanks Blogs. I should have known.
Thanks too to Paul. Some good arguments there. I’m heartened that most Arsenal suppporters understand the many facets to this debate, and will consider them before making up their own minds.
Another reason to be against Usmanov’s takeover on top of what Ole mentioned is because he’s an evil scumbag associated with state terrorist regimes who also likes to use his ridiculous amounts of wealth to censore free speech. But that may be just me.
non edible
largely agree, but we could use a man with his influence to counteract some of the ridiculous refereeing decisions we have had to put up with over the last few years
[…] I urge you all to read this piece, over on Goonerholic, where the somewhat suspect and staged nature of the interview is brought to […]
Great work bringing this to light ‘holic. What I find most worrying about all of this is that there are two great bastions we should be able to rely on, the FA and the BBC.
The former has had Davies in a prominent role for the best part of the last 15 years, yet he is still happy to conduct such a staged interview, and the latter is content with it taking place on their network without offering up the almost mandatory opposing view.
Had the interview happened in the Daily Mail, between Moshiri and one of their columnists, I don’t think anyone would be surprised or even that bothered, but that it was given so much credence is concerning.
Right! I deffo don’t trust that Russian now. That is an obviously orchestrated attempt to stir up more negativity towards the current Board. Predictable after the financing deal was rebuffed. I see these moves by the Uzbek and Dein (this stunt has got him written all over it) as increasingly hostile and indicate a stepping up of pressure. This deffo becoming (and always was) a hostile takeover. DEFFO DON’T TRUST THE RUSSIAN!
You see a link and that does not make what he says valid? I think it was extremly interesting to hear from camp Usmanov.
Whats with all the hate on Usmanov??
Yeah it seems fishy that someone is willing to offer us 100 million or whatever without any board room presence, or a majority shareholderr options/or takeover ooptions..BUT who in their right mind would turn down such an offer? this money will go towards paying of debt (I would say 50-75% would be contributed that way), and the rest can be spent on transfers.
Arsenal DO need his money. Give red-white holdings 25% share of the company. their intentions are for long-term investment, which is not bad (depending on the cost of the cash- assuming there is any at all).
Thoug,h anyone who makes an investment is looking for something in return- I believe Red-White Holdings want Arsenal to do well, and if Arsenal do well, RWH will benefit from it, as will all teh fans and the baordroom.
RWH have no intentions to take-over the club, and certainly the board will not allow that to happen..
Take the money! have a russian on the board. We want to rid of out expensive debt, do it with his help. He will surely offer a much smaller cost for cash- if any, and it will be good for all..
All this boardroom bullshit will fuck arsenal over in the end…
71cescfiberglass
Obviously, you have not read all the comments.
I refer you to comment 56 Ole Gunner to answer the crap you have just posted.
“non edible
largely agree, but we could use a man with his influence to counteract some of the ridiculous refereeing decisions we have had to put up with over the last few years”
Great idea! Let’s also copy the techniques they use down there in Uzbekistan: we can kidnap the referees family and boil them alive, promising more of the same if they don’t award us a penalty in the next match.
What’s that? Immoral you say? I’ll look that up in the dictionary and call you back.
Furhter connections between Dein and Davies on my blog today. This story needs legs.
Excellent work, Blogs.
At the end of the day all he’s achieving is pile up more and more pressure on Arsene. I’d hate us to lose Arsene coz of the Fat Uzbek cunt.
They are cunts of the highest nature, its a shame that so many retards believe what they say
At the end of the day all he’s achieving is pile up more and more pressure on Arsene.
This is a good point – and when you consider this is pre-season, imagine how they’ll stick the knife in if we don’t start well or go through a bad patch.
Some friendship there.
superb blog ! keep the great work up holic sane minds are needed !
I made a similar pint in a debate going on the BBC forum.
It does not matter what Usmanov says.
BUT
If we don’t qualify for CL position next season because of our debt structuring we are buggered. That means there will be a takeover.
Usmanov has a great chance of taking over if don’t qualify because our share price will be driven down because of debt problems.
Usmanov cannot pay the high prices of the shares. Stan Kroenke can and is slowly taking over anyway. It suits Usmanov to point out the OBVIOUS hole created by Adebayor sale. So that he says ‘I told you so’ when takes control.
We better replace Adebayor or we are in deep problems.
I believe if Usmanov hadn’t resorted to such tactics right from the time he first came in I would have given him the benefit of the doubt. But no doubt now remains. He never has had or will have the best interests of arsenal at heart. It’s pure business and maybe a bit of a fashion statement for him to own a football club.
Where the perception that he’s willing to give us 100 million pounds for nothing comes from I have no idea. Its almost like people like believing that this board is inherently bad and that are willing to take anyone else..Be careful what you wish for I say.
Of course to most such people it won’t be a problem cos they can always start supporting another club.
P.S. At least there are some blogs out there giving it as it is. Good on you.
I am amazed at the ignorance!
WHO IS THE BOARD? STAN KROENKE AND DANNY FISZMAN.
The Carrs and Nina Bracewell-Smith are already out. And soon they will sell their shares anyway.
[I]If we don’t qualify for CL position next season because of our debt structuring we are buggered. That means there will be a takeover.[/I]
Not convinced by that to be honest. Partway through last season, PHW was talking about how we have budgeted for the possibility of not being in the Champions League.
That sort of comment irritates many fans, but in truth it is incredibly sensible, Leeds did the opposite and look where they are now.
You cannot budget for continued success, because it comes in peaks and troughs. The current board understand this, Wenger understands it, and some of the fanbase understand it. But oligarchs don’t tend to get to where they are by being patient.
As for the takeover, you’re right that the share price would fall, but Kroenke is in the driving seat there – plenty would sell to him to allow him to takeover if Usmanov ever made that step himself. Personally, I think a takeover is inevitable, and I’m suspicious of all parties, but at least with Kroenke it would be a phased approach. Usmanov, in my opinion, would be a bull in a china shop, ripping away everything that makes this club ours.
Apologies for the tagging – clearly [I] is not the way to do italics here…
Shard, you said;
“Where the perception that he’s willing to give us 100 million pounds for nothing comes from I have no idea. Its almost like people like believing that this board is inherently bad and that are willing to take anyone else..Be careful what you wish for I say”.
English football worships at the temple of money. Money has become the essence of the game. Sod, building a team, having traditions, principles, actual footballing quality. Spending is what counts. Whoever claims to have the most money is the pre-ordained winner, and if you spend a lot you get a lot of sympathy.
The irony is that it’s dubious how much money the shady Uzbek has. It’s very dubious that he’s as wealthy as the actual board in terms of personal wealth, and if Usmanov wants to put money into Arsenal I can send him the address of Arsenal PLC so he knows where to send the cheque to.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stopalisherusmanov
“Not convinced by that to be honest. Partway through last season, PHW was talking about how we have budgeted for the possibility of not being in the Champions League.”
Hill wood was talking bull. Read Robert Preston’s blog. He is a gooner and is the chief economic reporter for the BBC. Those statements were made when the perception was that the Highbury Square development would make enough of a profit to pay of the mezzanine loans on the stadium. However after revaluations and the drop out of the Singapore investment the fear is that the debt would have to increased on the stadium to continue the development of Highbury Square. And you may have noticed the Banks are not willing to give risky loans any more. Especially for property development.
“ut Kroenke is in the driving seat there – plenty would sell to him to allow him to takeover if Usmanov ever made that step himself.”
NO. Thats the problem. At the moment Stan Kroenke is slowly taking over. Thats a fact. But the share prices are at a premium. If our share price is lowered there will be a dutch auction. Stan doesn’t want to involved in that.
Thats why Nina Bracewell-Smith and Carrs were removed. The deal between Stan and Danny Fiszman was a soft takeover.
If the share price is lowered I promise Usmanov will out bid Stan Kroenke.
Ole gunner
I agree completely. The media fuels this frenzy because they get something to write about. Fans probably fall for it cos lets face it:we all love new signings. Every season we hear about spurs spending 100 million and being ready to enter the top 4 at arsenal’s expense. This year it’s Man city. Nobody’ll remember this really but at the start of the unbeaten season too we hadn’t bought anybody and there were much the same criticisms. Now I’m not saying that this team are anywhere near as good and we do need signings but where does it stop? Besides, not being happy with the current board is no reason to fawn over everything Mr Usmanov and his PR machine say.
@Mark
Firstly, though bank loans are hard to come by Liverpool have just had their loan refinanced,and Man U bought berbatov through loans. worst come to worst we could do it too. The point is we have money, make profits every year,but we choose to use it in a properly run business model rather than taking loans to finance player purchases. Which in my opinion is a sensible long term strategy.
Second, I would prefer no takeover at arsenal, but if given a choice between Usmanov and kroenke i’d prefer Kroenke without a doubt.
Well,
I am concerned about takeover. What would be best is to maintain the current structure in which nobody owns the club outright.
However, if takeover were inevitable I don’t see any reason AT ALL why it should be by the shady Uzbek;
1. He’s shady.
2. He already asked for a dividend showing he wants to take money out of the club and end the long tradition of reinvesting profits into the club.
3. He has no track record of running a football club or a sports team.
4. It’s obvious he thinks we should go the Chelski way in which we depend on the whims of a billionaire to fund the team. Unfortunately, he’s no Abramovic. According to Forbes his personal net worth is a tenth of Abramovic’s.
5. His manner of approaching the club casts a shadow on his intention.
6. The board don’t trust him, and these are lifelong gunners who have constantly reinvested their own money in the club. Whatever their faults, they are a whole lot more trustworthy than the shady Uzbek.
Testing italics with i in lower case for Pete
Ole gunner
Hear hear!! Especially point 1 , though maybe put more crudely 🙂
Also, frustrating as it is to not know what is going on behind the scenes, not hear transfer talk emanating from the club etc. it still is the right and proper way to do things. It is the arsenal way and Usmanov and his mannerisms say he has no place in arsenal’s way of doing things.
@Ole Gunner,
Even if his fortune was 10 times that of Abramovich i’d still would want him out. I would never want my club to become what Chelsea have become. They are in my opinion simply the most disgusting club there is.
@Shard
I agree with you. But we have £25m from Adebayor sale. Plus we offered some money and Eboue for Melo so I think we have upwards of £30m. That excludes Eboue sale, possibly Kolo, Senderos sales.
I would want a named striker to come in. That will make sure Adebayor doesn’t become an issue with fans also qualifies us for CL.
I have ZERO faith in Bendtner. Its hard enough when there is no pressure. But because Adebayor has gone to a rival, it makes it impossible for Betnder (who has proved nothing) to succeed.
@Mark
A striker would be welcome but is not a necessity. We absolutely need a central midfielder though. But, I agree with your point that the money from player sales should be directly invested back in the team. What position and who to spend it on is the manager’s job.
No a striker is an absolute necessity. Because it has become the ISSUE. And everytime Adebayor scores for Man City. Usmanov will say I told you so.
NONE OF OUR STRIKERS have EVER scored 12 leagues goals. NONE.
No top team in the world would be stupid enough to take the risk. Look what Juve said about Trez to Ac Milan. Eff off. Even though Trez is more useless than Adebayor.
@ mark
It seems Van Persie agrees with you.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/van-persie-new-striker-will-strengthen-team
I still say defense and midfield are the more pressing areas that need to be addressed. But ideally yes, i would like a striker to come in as well. (and in that regard, are Dzeko to milan rumours still floating around?)
I think this interview was all just an exercise to try and unsettle the Arsenal fans into thinking that offloading the Arsenal debt with a rights issue of new shares would solve all the problems within the club.
In fact all this is a poorly hidden disguise to have more shares issued knowing full well that there would be a number of existing share holders who would be unable to raise the $8,000 per share to purchase the new ones. This then would allow red and white holdings to come in and purchase these left over shares thereby increasing it’s shareholding. At the moment they are stuck where they are with no room to move. So FUCK them and let them sit and wait or by the Arsenal flats if they are true fans.
If there is one truth in life it’s this “YOU DON’T GET THAT RICH BY BEING HONEST, FAIR AND DYING WITH YOUR INTEGRITY STILL IN TACT!!!!!!
@Shard.
The problem is that the issue will be highlighted every week in match of the day. blah blah blah Adebayor gives City an edge. blah etc.
It will on the phone-ins and blog talking points.
Its so vital to have a NAME come in. I know we can’t afford David Villa but someone like Huntelaar, Vucinic or another top name. If it is someone who has yet to prove himself I would go all out for Sergio Aguero.
I would have loved it if Arsene had swapped Dzeko for Bendtner in Jan 2008 when we had a chance. But coming into a situation to prove yourself is difficult. Anything is better than Bendtner but it puts a lot of pressure on Dzeko. Can we take the risk?
Do complain to Beeb if you’re annoyed by this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/homepage/
David Davies was standing in as presenter for this edition of Sportsweek (26th July), and it’s likely that the producer was unaware of how close his links were to Moshiri via Dein and Usmanov, or quite the level of controversy that Usmanov’s takeover attempt has generated.
Remember to give the date and program and station (Sportsweek, 26/7/09, Fivelive). Arseblog’s rather good for a summary of this too (though Goonerholic was there first!):
http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog/posts/dein-davies-and-that-bbc-interview—news-round-up
Re: the striker options
I think the last thing we need is a named striker, i.e. someone who walks straight into the team. There may be concerns over Eduardo’s fitness, but otherwise he, Bendtner and Van Persie should be our main trio – two out of three have convinced all fans, Bendtner still has work to do but is knuckling down.
Beyond that, we have Carlos Vela, who was quite frankly awesome in the Gold Cup final. Could be a big year for him.
The point is – Wenger always talks about ‘killing’ young players by bringing top names in, and usually I actually disagree, I think it motivates them, but in this instance I think we’re well covered. I’d welcome another striker, but another one with big promise rather than immediate returns.
@Mark
I understand that our financial position isn’t wonderful, but it is better than most other teams in the league, a fact that most seem to ignore when predicting our implosion. But even Moshiroi admitted we had money to spend when he said “I don’t think there are any spare funds with the exception of Adebayor’s proceeds”. Er, so that’s 25m of spare funds then.
And that 25m is probably readily available – from what I can understand, City are paying a higher percentage of their fees up front, and less in instalments, so even if we spent 25m, we’d actually have some of that money in the bank for a period. It helps.
Thanks ‘holic for the italics tip!
If only all blogs had such excellent content and comments. A big thumbs up to holic and all the posters. As arsenlogger says we should give this story legs. We have seen what the blogs can do before with usmanov and in a different way the ade brochure. If we continue this intelligent and considered commentary we can show the patronizing and poorly informed pr and media machines that arsenal fans are no mugs.
On Usmanov there is nothing i can say that isn’t repeating ole’s points, completely agree there, and that an attempt to destabilise the club and fanbase before the season starts is obviously not the actions of someone who gives two s**ts about the club.
“Another reason to be against Usmanov’s takeover on top of what Ole mentioned is because he’s an evil scumbag associated with state terrorist regimes who also likes to use his ridiculous amounts of wealth to censore free speech”
Whoever posted that, the sentiment is commendable. However, if you want consistency, which such a position needs to be consistent, then how about the corporate American on our board? The biggest perpetrators and sponsors of state terror around.
Well done Holic… Very well written…. The more sane blogs that are written on the matter, the better.
I read often enough and you are usually spot on.
Arsenal should be left to run itself as it is going one right now… It is just fine, but if push comes to shove for takeover, then it appears Stan has the better ideas
[…] you have to think about the various personal links and Goonerholic gets right to it. We know David Dein was involved in Red and White, and the suspicion is that he still is, despite […]
Coming late to the party but this is another perfect post. I’m torn between disgust and pity towards Dein. Of all people to sell his shares to, he chose the shadiest. All of Dein’s efforts for Arsenal in the past, including hiring AW, don’t even come close to covering the price we will have to pay for having the Uzbek oligarch on board.
And for all of those who listen to the sirens and clamour for Adebayor to be replaced, here’s the answer:
Mexico crushed the US 5-0 in the Gold Cup final and Vela was involved in 4 of those. The kid is simply pure class: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgGy7rSl324
Velavelavelavelavelavelacelavela!!!! 😉
Agree great blogging. Usmanov is not the man we want associated with Arsenal AT ANY PRICE. Better the Blue Square conference without Usmanov than winning the Champions League with him in the board room. When you consider whether your team should sign a player you look at how they’ve done elsewhere. You should do the same when looking at an owner. Usmanov’s record speaks for itself. Cross the road and keep walking..
I’m more concerned about Kroenke to be honest. I get the feeling that he is anti any kind of rights issue/Equity Financing because he aims to dump personal debt on the club rather like Hicks/Gillett at the Scousers, and the Glazers at United. Usmanov wants to raise finance via share issues which are at least non-refundable and do not increase debt. Kroenke is against this as he will actually have to put his hand in his pocket, which i’m sure he has little intention of doing.
To clarify, i’m anti any sort of takeover, but I don’t like seeing Kroenke portrayed as some sort of knight in shining armour, as he has offered nothing to us, and is of zero benefit as it stands. With him in charge we are more likely to see the ground booked up for WWF wrestling on the night of a Champions League game like he did in the States….
[…] since the love-affair with Alisher Usmanov (with the BBC now well into the sordid triangle, brilliantly smashed by Goonerholic), that particular paper has been less trustworthy by the day when it comes to Arsenal […]
One problem is that the Arsenal board are letting the fat c**t set the agenda and not putting their side of things. One of the criticizms of Gordon Brown and the Labour Party, is that he seems unable to defend his policies, even though there are cogent arguments that he is right. Result: we will get a Tory government, that has already allied itself with certain eastern European neo-nazi parties, and will leave our welfare state in ruins.
Has the BBC sought out the opinion of our largest shareholder? I suspect not, even though he could tell them why he supports the board`s position, and why their policies are important for the stabilty of the club. I suspect that the BBC is fully aware they are being used as a `patsy` but the BBC and good sports journalism is an oxymoron.
Having just listnened to said interview, I’m truly surprised that David Davies was allowed to get away with being such an obvious stool pigeon for Usmanov and co. I was even more surprised by his question, about half way through the interview, to Moshiri [quote] “Cannot the 2nd biggest shareholder demand answers?” [to the question of why the rights issue was declined]….as though the decision reached by the board was so clearly in the wrong!!!
And as if to add further insult to injury, he went on to suggest that Wenger might leave the club, by inferring this might not happen without Usmanov riding in as the savior. And that David Dein has not ever been properly replaced – another fault of the board.
All very excruciatingly embarrassing!!! Having said that, it would be nice to hear something from the Kroenke camp because ultimately we are looking at two potential owners of Arsenal football club, of which we the fans know very little regarding their true intentions. I realise we have always been the kind of club that keeps business matters well and truly in the boardroom but, there are times when one has to speak out. I believe that time could well be now.
As regards new signings, I hope Wenger continues to stick firm to his principles. I do not believe we need a new attacker anywhere near as much as we do a defensive midfielder. Also, it seems to me Kolo IS going to leave the club so I’d personally like to see him replaced – Hangeland would be ideal. The sale of Eboue is unlikely to affect our PL challenge too negatviely so we won’t have anything like the problem muted by Moshiri (in said interview), i.e. we are going to lose key players as a result of the ACN.
KEEP THE FAITH 🙂
I entirely agree with what biscuitbum is essentially saying (though the political analogy would be slammed in a lot of quarters). The essential problem isn’t what Red and White are saying or, though despicable, how the BBC interview was conducted or arranged. The essential problem is that Arsenal fans have only ever heard one side of the story – the fat and orange one. I think we are all ultimately believers of a very simple concept, if you get told something enough, if it gets hammered into you, you start to believe it. Some of us know the truth about such people as Uzmanov and will fight against what he says no matter how much such organisations as the BBC sway their supposed unbiased status. Others, who know little of Uzmanov, but simply hear what he says will be easier to persuade. It does, in a sense, come back to that same political analogy, if a political group controls all methods of communication their rule will be imposed upon people. Yet, we cannot deny this is hardly the case. Our board could come out, do and say whatever the hell they want. The rights issue, for example, we all know was ultimately a way of Uzmanov dramatically weakening minority shareholders and people like Lady Nina who are looking for a way out as well as increasing his own shareholding and putting pressure on Kronke. Why this couldn’t have just been said on the official website I simply can’t understand rather than the ‘we evaluated the rights issue and decided against it’ type comment that Glazdis gave us. For someone who’s meant to be intelligent in the field of commercialisation he’s completely underestimated the reaction this has been created. For a lot of people in England, in a time of economic recession and anger generally at people with a lot of money, he has managed to make our board look like the only reason the rights issue was rejected was to save their own pockets, whilst he was prepared to invest in the club by underwriting the issue – which is nowhere near the actual truth. Ultimately I think it would be a very interesting question if every single person who considers themselves an Arsenal fan was asked the question would you like Uzmanov as sole owner? Would it be 30%, 40%, 50%? I doubt it would be more than that, but equally I don’t think it would be much lower, which is a worrying state of affairs and a state of affairs that, as far as i’m concerned, could have been avoided if the board had actually come out and made a few well publicised comments. As much as I think if they do come out and make some comments it will be too late, it is of course a case of better late than never, otherwise interviews of this ilk will simply continue.
The fat c**t talks about our debt as if he could wave a magic wand and it would disappear. The truth is that Usmanov has lost billions in the recession, is now worth less on paper than Kroenke, and would amost certainly load any debt occasioned by a takeover, onto the club, whatever he might say at the time. Just as happened with the yanks at Liverpool.
Kris, whilst I see your point I fundamentally question the common sense of Arsenal posting a statement on the official website about the ‘REAL’ reasons behind the rejected rights issue in such highly critical and negative tones about Usmanov (as much as I loathe the thought of him taking control over Arsenal) in the terms you describe. Defamatory/libellous even?? Possibly.
Are you forgetting this man is currently the clubs 2nd biggest sharehlder??
I’ll say it again that, for reasons of balance, it would be nice to hear something from the Kroenke camp because ultimately we are looking at two future potential owners of Arsenal football club, of which we the fans need to know their true intentions.
Just to let you know I’ve had a response to my complaint from the BBC
Thanks for your e-mail regarding the 26 July edition of ‘Sportsweek’.
We understand that you felt guest Farhad Moshiri was not sufficiently challenged by David Davies during their interview.
The programme team did invite a representative from the Arsenal board onto the show to put their side of the story, however they declined this offer.
Previous efforts have also been made to speak to the Arsenal chief executive – we acknowledge, however, that this should have been made this clear on the programme.
We don’t believe there was a conflict of interest with our stand-in presenter on this issue. David Davies has no commercial links to David Dein. He did help Dein by setting up a media briefing for him over two years ago but was certainly not a PR advisor then or now.
It was a very revealing interview. David asked sensible and fair questions which got newsworthy answers that were subsequently picked up by some of the national press.
The interview was recorded and the most newsworthy section of this interview was broadcast.
The ‘Sportsweek’ producers will be asking the Arsenal board whether they wish to respond to the interview in this week’s show.
We’d also like to assure you that we’ve registered your complaint on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that’s circulated to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, channel controllers and other senior managers.
The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content.
Thanks again for taking the time to contact us.
Regards
BBC Complaints
Standard response they have fired out, e,
thanks for sharing with the readers though. I guess they have to be seen to be supporting their staff in public, but I can’t believe that everybody in the corporation was happy with a very sloppy piece of journalism and questionable motives.
//….The ‘Sportsweek’ producers will be asking the Arsenal board whether they wish to respond to the interview in this week’s show…..//
Hmmmm……it would be nice to see Arsenal take the opportunity to set the record straight……but I wouldn’t hold my breath. It’s never been our style.