Germans Deserve Triumph And I Feel For The Grandkids
Jun 27th, 2010 by 'holic
I’ve not made much of a secret of the fact that these days I would not cross the road to follow England. The days when I was one of a few giving them vocal backing in a stadium full of Scots are long gone. A decade of watching some of the finest players ever to grace the game mean I am not prepared to follow this technically deficient bunch, so over-hyped by sycophantic pundits.
So when I went for a lunchtime pint today I looked at the faces around me. Families, groups of mates, old and young, fellas and lasses all sporting three lions and chatting excitedly and laughing nervously about what was to come. I was reminded that what the national team does has a huge impact, if only temporarily, on the mood of the nation.
I was at home by the time the game kicked-off, and the thought of the grandkids willing the side on wasn’t far away. Sadly those technical deficiencies were exposed early on by a German side that had been so absurdly dismissed by the press here.
“How many Germans would get in the England team?” spouted the purveyors of bollocks. At 0-2 we knew. England’s central defenders were exposed as pub players as Klose and Podolski, impotent at club level, were afforded time and space to show that you never lose the basics.
At this point even the English are down on their team, their manager, the exchange rate and the price of petrol. That is only to be expected. Then Upson redeems himself with a header. At 1-2 the contest is on again. The Germans, surprisingly, are rocking, and Lampard’s strike is the equaliser that was only a matter of time. Or is it?
I’ll skip the whole next part of the debate. The English are not the first to be denied by a diabolical decision from the officials. They won’t be the last. That’s the nature of the game. Humans err from time to time. The two added goals in the second half may or may not have happened if that goal had stood, but we will never know. The much better team over the ninety minutes won.
I can understand the Germans, the Irish, the Scots, the Argentinians et al having a chuckle at England’s expense. It is what we do when the situation is reversed. I have all the time in the world for people who support their own, and ridicule those with whom they have a beef. That is also human nature.
I am however enraged by those who turn on their own at such times. Our media may have many biased and xenophobic elements, a fact often acknowledged here. Our players may be the most over-rated ever to pull on the three lions, and I won’t argue against that.
However, the people I was born near, those I have grown up with, those I now live near and work with, my family, especially the grandkids, mean everything to me. I am thinking of them when I hear people who should know better spouting bollocks. It is those close to me, not the pundits and privileged players, who represent everything that is good about the place of my birth.
Following any football team will always result in more disappointment and heartache than you would want to experience. The current inability of many to realise that is remarkable to me. The English who spouted nonsense about England today share a platform with those who claim to be Arsenal supporters and have nothing but criticism for the Gunners.
Perspective is in danger of extinction.
83 Responses to “Germans Deserve Triumph And I Feel For The Grandkids”
1st drink
maybe if the English mainstream media maintain a period of silence their sports teams may have a change of fortune
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by . said: […]
I found it quite bizarre at the end of the a game where we were completely outplayed and the players were shown up to be so technically limited that they were all calling for Capello to go. It is the standard kneejerk reaction so beloved of the media as it provides them with the easiest way of avoiding the inevitable analysis that the self proclaimed best league in the world really probably isn’t when two strikers who have had pretty poor years domestically in Germany can drive Hummers through our defence. Capello can only do so much. In fact getting through qualification into the tournament has provided plenty of evidence if not of outright alchemy then certainly of a remarkable ability to polish turds.
And who will take over if Capello goes? Wenger doesn’t want the job as he knows if he took it he’d have to cope with a possible retirement from international football of the 30 somethings (or approaching 30 somethings) in Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard and Gerrard. And what does he have to take their place? Milner and Garry Barry? It is more than damning that Milner, 24, who has been playing football on the top division for most of the last 7, yes count them, years is “young” player of the year. What does that say for the dearth of talent beneath him? So who? Perhaps one of the “great young English managers” so beloved of the football punditry and media sycophants. How about Allardyce? He’s always telling us how great he is.
Maybe all joking aside that would be the best outcome. For watching him staff his eleven from his usual crowd of 6’4″, 15 stone failed rugby league players and inevitably get slaughtered by nimbler, more able, more intelligent opponents might finally kill the English addiction shared by media, pundits, the FA and lets face it most England fans to lumpen outmoded Charles Hughes football and usher in a new dawn of trying to develop technically gifted footballers who have more in their locker than a genetic ability to run around for 90 minutes and kick people. Really hard.
Or is that too much to hope for?
Love the last line and the para before that.
Also the “how many germans …” bit. Typically ignorant arrogance.
Apologies to all true English gooners but I’ll be having a laugh at Englands expense and I think so will many other johnny foreigners! That’s because except the true gooners from England everything about English football (approach, managers, FA, refs, pundits, et al) seems to be anti-Arsenal. It goes on season after season but it generally comes back to haunt the country at times like these.
I don’t know rider. I am as down as anyone tonight, and feel betrayed that we cannot produce eleven players (or even three or four!) comfortable in possession, capable of retaining the ball in an era where keeping it is the be all and end all.
I know we sometimes laud the next generation, and talk of Gibbs, Walcott, Wilshere etc., but where are the young players getting blooded at the highest level? Only at Arsenal, and we cannot produce a squad of 23 for 2012.
It’s not our responsibility either!
I dont really see what the media hatred for Arsenal/rose tinted specs re England have got to do with one another.
Im a season ticket holder at Arsenal, having been to my first gam ein 1984, and I support England as I was born here, 35 yeras ago (almost to the day – annoyingly, ze Germans knocked us out of the Euros on my 21st, and today I ahd 40 people here for my 35th – maybe if we play the germans on my bday weekend again, i wont bther inviting anyone over!) – BUT the fact remains that as an Englishman I get behind the team whoever they are, whoever teh manager is, whatever the formation, however arrogant overpaid and (frankly) shit they happen to be, and even if they did leave their only real potential matchwinner back in the UK becuse he hardly played all season, having played for both the under 21’s and full squad last summer.
Come on people – we DECIDE to be Arsenal fans, and support them ever more – we have no choice but to support England if we are Engligh, unless we are bitter, twisted wnkers.
Just my opinion.
I think that the England side were a great example of the sum being less than the total of the parts. All criticism aside, England does have quality players. However they do not play well together. This side also shows the importance of having a complete team and most importantly at least one playmaker in midfield. There have been complaints about how the side played and about Capello. More complaints, especially from our group about leaving Theo and others out of the team but when it comes down to it, England just does not have a midfielder that can control the match and make to plays to allow the rest of the side to do what they do best. Too bad we can’t convince Cesc to apply for English citizenship, that would solve more than one problem.
Great post ‘Holic, excellent reply clockendrider.
To the English side, you lasted one more day than my American side.
Well said holic. On 606 this evening there was the inevitable chorus of “we need an English manager who understands OUR way of playing and players”. Yes Keegan and McClaren anyone? All the bloody Eyeties fault don’t you know. I’m afraid that too many English people and players believe their media’s own hype. Do the players have no culpability in all of this? They didn’t qualify for the last euros and didn’t turn up for this world Cup. And to think there were M U fans (and others) who were prepared to tell one and all that Rooney was a better player than Messi. He’s not and he’s not as good as Oezil either. However will anyone learn from this? Unlikely. In four years time all we’ll hear is ‘We’re gonna win the World Cup!” Based on what other than blind prejudice and jingoism?
Good post, Goonerholic.
I guess the question now is how many German players would want to get into the England team?
England lost to a better team, and there is no shame in that.
But some of the reactions I’ve seen elsewhere in the blogosphere about the game really hit the nail on the head, in my view, about why England failed – yet again – to produce at an international football tournament.
England as a national team are simply playing football from a bygone age, i.e. not the type of football that should be played on the international stage in the 21st Century.
Germany’s technical ability, their capacity to retain possession of the ball in tight spaces, their passing & intelligent movement, the construction & angles of their attacks, were all on a different superior level to that of their English counterparts.
Several times during the game I actually saw German players put their foot on the ball – in wide areas of the pitch.
This was a clear sign that they were playing without fear, and weren’t afraid to properly express themselves – footballistically speaking – as and when & where appropriate.
They were playing with what Arsene would call “personality”.
How many Engand players have the confidence to put their foot on the ball and to truly express themselves as footballers?
The way England plays at national level is consistent with their vision of how the game should be played, and that’s why I don’t see England changing their game or style of playing anytime soon.
It’s also why, in my view, England have experienced 44 successive years of failure at international level.
They have largely continued to do those things which have failed time and time and time again, while the rest of the footballing World has moved on, bigtime.
C’est la vie.
Watching this england team has made me grateful of Arsenal and our technical prowess. England have a lack of technical ability, it’s as simple as that, no if’s or buts, the media will try and make out that its the formation thats the problem but it isnt. I wouldnt even rank England in the top 20 passing teams in the world. The reason England are reletively succesfull is there fire power from the likes of gerrard or rooney for example. But in terms of technique they are pitful.
Time for England to invest in the future. The backbone of the team should now be the upcoming players – not the current lot.
Very competently and cogently expressed. We were rubbish today. Just one small question: Didn’t Beckenbauer (and he was a great player) say recently that England had regressed to the ‘long-ball’ game? What about the Neuer to striker to back netting goal today??? I don’t know if England the long-ball game, but we certainly don’t know how to defend against it!!!
Two words as to how BAD england are. Mexico Argentina, brilliant football.
GH,
It really hurt me to have to write that response and believe you me I took absolutely not one iota of pleasure in doing so. I love my country and want us to do well but we’re constantly hamstrung by lack of talent and a slavish devotion to the development of purely physical attributes.
I’ve just heard that idiot Shearer during the halftime break saying that “clearly” something is wrong in the camp and there needs to be change. Sounds promising, thinks I. Ruined by the next sentence where he goes on to talk about how the players don’t get on with Capello. Didn’t notice the problem during qualifying for the world cup. But then I guess the preening retards who make up the team didn’t get the opportunity to bully leading lights like Belarus and Kazakhstan in the actual tournament. Enough with the excuses. It’s the system that needs to change but turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.
yes , finally the england circus is finish let s enjoy the world cup…until tomorrow where all the hack will use the old excuse
– manager is shit and overpaid
– arsenal fault
– overpaid football player
– arsenal fault
– referee and ze cheating german
– arsenal fault
– the fat cat of the FA
– arsenal fault
– youth coach and the academy set up
– Arsene Wenger and arsenal fault
– the ball,the pitch,vuvuzela,the beautiful german girl,DB7,Maradonna…etc
– ho yes arsenal fault i ve nearly forgot
Fast foward 4 years,nothing has been done but everygo again world class england will win the world cup…in brazil of course they will…the end
Fair points rider.
There were English who expressed sheer glee at the defeat because of the press that we have and the make up of the squad. It’s as if they were thumbing their nose at all those around them, all those who had made them what they are. All those who are genuinely hurting tonight.
I have no problems with anyone highlighting the many shortcomings in our game, but don’t take pleasure in it. You know what I mean when I describe them as the bastards who seem to want us to fail, whether ‘us’ is England or Arsenal.
Terrific post `Holic. How unfortunately accurate!
I feel bad to hijack this thread but I just found an article that brings some more light on the topics we’ve discussed recently: injuries and doping. Here you go:
More than 450 players have been tested during the World Cup, including almost 200 match-day checks. FIFA chief medical officer Jiri Dvorak said Sunday that no positive results were found, meaning the 2010 tournament is following the example of previous editions in 1998, 2002 and 2006.
The number of injuries per match has also dropped from a high of 2.7 in 2002 to 2.0 so far this year, according to FIFA statistics. In Germany 2006, there were 2.3 injuries per match. Dvorak said the reduction was due to better preparation of players and the improved knowledge of team doctors and medical staff. “We hope this trend is going to continue in the future,” Dvorak said. “Our objective is to go to less than two injuries per match.”
Dvorak, a neurologist, said he was particularly pleased to see referees clamping down on the use of elbows to prevent head and neck injuries. The crackdown was in evidence when France’s Yoann Gourcuff was sent off against South Africa for hitting Macbeth Sibaya with an elbow as the two went for a ball in the box during the teams’ final group match. “The elbow to the head has to be punished by a red card,” Dvorak said. “The referees are being very strict on this.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hulEWR7J15Km6UEQZmWrV3Cu9o3gD9GJITB81
How can anyone want their country to lose? It’s beyond me. I think maybe some of these people just haven’t had the time to compose and arrange their thoughts. Of course I am probably being a bit kind there…..
The answer of course is letting the FA feel the pain by not going to Wembley for ridiculous meaningless friendlies thereby forcing them to listen. For heaven’s sake even Bolton after years of their luddite antediluvian football have got the message after seeing half their stadium empty week after week regardles of the opposition and got rid of anpother in their long line of Charles Hughes apostles and got in a man who tries to pass the ball. Given that the only language that the idiots at the FA seem to understand is money, that might just help them see the light.
Of course what will actually happen is they will sack Capello, install someone else and proclaim this as the dawn of a new era. Thereby suckering in the masses and off we all go again. Hugely dispiriting.
Being from America, I’m very concerned that we’re becoming the same way. We only want managers that are American, and our youth set up leaves 75% of our talent behind. Bradley clearly hasn’t defined a system for us to play, and our love of English football has led us to try to be just like them. Unfortunately, English football has floundered for several years now and it’s only going to make us worse unless we try to emulate only the good. We need to leave behind the notion that only internal managers will know what they’re doing.
I don’t know, this just struck home for me as well. Our team was clearly more talented than Ghana’s, but we put out an 11 that was entirely unsuited to playing them.
Have to say- thought Germany were beatable by a good side-we looked a very poor side-especially defensively and in front of the back 4. The scale of our under-performance is on a par with France-and the ineptitude of our defending in the second half was highly reminiscent of Arsenal at home to United and the Chavs this season.
Yes we have to look wider than just replacing the coach. In all honesty-this does need an independent inquiry to try to establish-why the team performed so badly and how best to begin to address our top players tactical and technical deficiencies.
I said in the drinks on the last post that Germany would be too strong for England – I didn’t think it would be so one sided tho.
Schadenfreude.
I suppose sooner or later, someone will blame it on Arsenal, and “all them foreigners”.
But the real reason is that there are too many players who are hyped way beyond their true ability (just because someone wants to pay £30M for James Milner doesn’t make him a £30M player). Maybe we can now get on and enjoy the rest of the tournament without listening to twats like Tyldesley.
Any anything that makes John Terry’s life painful can’t be all bad, can it?
In tight circles,the germans were to wriggle their way out.In England the German would have been hit by a bone crunching tackle.Why didnt the English players resort to this?
Perhaps this could be the reason.The English were held back by the fear of retribution from the referee.You see full blooded tackles that are tolerated by the epl refs are deemed punishable by a red/yellow card on the continent/in the wc.
Perhaps this is one aspect of the game The FA can examine.
I have to agree with goonerberry. England were hit by counterattacks remnicent of the Gunners games against Chelsea and MU.And oh the English players were overrated especially the bull dog.He has been exposed as ordinary but great in the epl.
I am of the opinion that the games in the epl are too physical.As some fans say,some of the tackles which are punishable by a booking are allowed by the English FA.This is one area where the authorities might look into.
you only haveto go to any pre youth and youth sunday morning match and all that you will hear from the sidelines are the shouts “get stuck in there son “. this stone age football that england play will never be enough to bring home the world cup thank the lord for arsene wenger at least he is trying to prepare our younsters in the right way it need many more to be doing thisbut with teams like stoke and others who would rather dispence” that will teach you” type tackles as the ramsey tackle was . we will face more pain as arsenal fans and at england level too.
Schadenfreude is the right word for it, but having read some of the stuff coming from the Australian press (where football rarely otherwise rates a mention) after our loss to Germany, I’m mostly wondering if FIFA are going to set up some sort of Referee Protection Program…
As a proud Englishman I have to say I am embarrassed by what I have witnessed in the World Cup. I can take losing but I can not take losing at a whimper. We have played 4 games at this World Cup. 3 have been utter shite, 1 has just been shite. We hear so much about how good we are etc but the truth is so plain to see. What I saw today was 11 individuals play against a team of 11 players. We looked 2nd in every department.
There will be a witch hunt. It was always going to happen. But I think all of those involved can only expect that. The pain of those who support their nation with a passion far greater than those who play for it will not be eased in the slightest when the pics of the players sunning themselves in some 6 star resort in a weeks time. This will only fuel the media frenzy. But I think it goes a lot deeper than that. The failures of many need to be brought to task. The FA are the most amateur organisation I have come across. Capello needs to take a large chunk of the blame for so many basic errors and the players need to explain the lack of heart and passion.
I have said on several posts throughout the season that I feel that the gap between players and fans has never been greater. I have no doubt that many who were present at that shite have spent years saving up just for the privilege. When the players have their feet up on the beach how many will actually think about that?
Major problems in my opinion that need addressing. And this is not a knee jerk reaction, it is something I have felt for ages. No one is more disappointed than me that I have been proved right.
This is my last England post. Tomorrow is another day. We are now less than 2 months from the new season. Bring it on.
Did we ever really think we’d win the World cup?
I mean REALLY….
The obvious absolute failure from FIFA is the introduction of a 4th ref. There have been game-turning refering errors in at least every other game. It’s as bad if not worse than previous world cups. And if that 2-2 goal had not been denied we’d have an entirely different discussion, don’t you think?
@ 7 shedzy
I don’t actually consider myself to be a bitter, twisted wanker, even though I do not actively support England these days.
Neither do I want them to lose.
It is simply that I cannot switch from despising the likes of J Terry and A Cole, etc, and the things they have come to stand for, every weekend, to suddenly flying flags from my car and house for them, just because they put on an England shirt.
I can’t forget Rooney and Gerard conning and diving against us, and leap from my settee because they shoot at goal for England.
I did the flag waving, jumping up and down bit a long time ago, when England players also seemed to be admirable people.
Sadly, in many, though not all cases,those days are long gone.
I did though, like you ‘Holic, feel really sorry for the young lad next door today, as I watched our “performance” unfold, and wonder if he, as a mad keen football fan at 4 years of age, would ever get the chance to experience the joy of a nation in celebration.
The problem with England’s “golden generation” is that they are the product of a system which prioritised power running at the expense of technique. Now those power runners are at an age where they have lost their pace, they have nothing else to offer.
Once again, as Arsenal fans, we will hopefully acknowledge just how much we owe Arsene Wenger for not leaving us in a Charles Hughes wilderniss of incompetence.
How lucky are we, to have seen some of the football played by Wenger’s teams, in a country where rolling your sleeves up and getting stuck in, are the two greatest attributes possessed by far too many of our players.
Who knows, Wenger’s legacy to Arsenal may yet turn out to be the very thing that starts England off on a path that is surely, eventually, inevitable.
What will the tabloid hacks have to say about that ?
A gritty, proud red, please ‘Holic, and thanks for a nice post with a very interesting context.
“How can anyone want their country to lose? It’s beyond me. I think maybe some of these people just haven’t had the time to compose and arrange their thoughts. Of course I am probably being a bit kind there…..”
clockendrider we are talking about Football here,maybe you should take the time to arrange and compose your thoughts before you write…
Would i want to see England lose in the cricket?no
Would i want to see England lose in Rubgy?no
Proud we have a word champion like Phil Taylor?yes
If there was a world conker championships on tv and there was an Englishman in the final,id be shouting at the telly for him to win.
I have had many years to think about why i dont support my country,in goonerhollics piece,the begining summed up my exact feelings and sentiments towards the England FOOTBALL team
Point 1,about 6 years ago i made a vow i would never watch another England game,as long as Peter “i just cant look at your ugly mug”Crotch was in the team.I mean he is total pants.roll on 6 years later…who`s in the squad???
Point 2,Now maybe im getting bitter and cynical in my old age(38)
but i just cannot for the life of me throw support to a team with the one already mentioned above.AND now also we got likes of…
John”its ok my dads a drug dealer mums a thief and i`m currupt cunt2Terry
Ashley”Nearly crashed my bentley and i can fuck whatever i want”Cole
Wayne”so loyal but can someone tell me wheres the goal again?Rooney
Steven”I didnt assault him m`lord honest Gerrard
Point 3,This is not a political page so i wont even go there,
but i have to be honest and say that i dont like England anymore,thats not to say i`m not proud to be an Englishman i just dont like the way England has become
If that makes me a bitter twisted wanker Mr shedzy,so be it my friend.
So be it.
before anyone says well if you dont like it leave then,i did,10 years ago from Manor House a stones throw from the great highbury.Not even the love of my local team could keep me in that shit pit of a place anymore.
Holic, I think you’re spot on.
These England players are the most overrated in the WC.
Apart from Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard and Cole every other player is AVERAGE at their very best.
Milner, Lennon, Barry, King et al, I mean come on… they’re awful, if they would have been born anywhere out of the UK they would never (!!!!) get to the premier league, they would just stay in their countries.
Great post ‘holic, but…have to disagree on the unseen Lampard goal.
Capello has every right to say it changed everything…it did. The only result which would have erased its impact was an England victory, and they were not good enough to get that.
You console yourself that it was, therefore, a fair result, knowing that such instant swings can often impact a full 90 minutes, much less 55 or 60.
The result was not fair. Even though it looks like Germany was the better team.
Now your point about English outrage, however, that I do agree with. Why protest now? We see it all the time in the EPL: if Arsenal lose to a Rooney or Gerard dive, or an Anfield-only home team PK, its always the fault of Arsenal that they lost — not the refs, not the bias, not the prejudice, not the lack of care for fairness.
A fair result is a result won fairly, by the team that actually scored more goals — fairly. It is not a win by the team deemed better because of better player talent, or a better manager. It is not a win by a team which had the enormous advantage of a false goal or a goal falsely denied, and then survived, or scored more against a demoralized opponent. It is not a game where the aggrieved team came back despite the unfair earlier events and won the game. That, too is an unfair game.
A fair game, at minimum, is one where all the goals were scored legitimately, from run of play, set pieces, or indisputable penalties, where player sending offs were unquestionable, and where players who committed red card fouls were not allowed to stay. That would be the minimum of a fair game, for me, but that kind of game rarely happens.
And its not the kind of game the English want, so far as I can tell — because they never complain about the extra edge which falsity bestows on their team or their club team, but rather incorporate it into their positive self-image.
Every other sport on earth that I know of — and I’m weak on cricket and rugby and anything uniquely Australian — attempts to limit the impact of crass umpiring decisions and player cheating, except soccer. In America, both for reasons of fairness, and reasons of lessening the influence of gamblers, such measures are taken, in reasonable measure. Why can’t it be with football? The Lampard goal was instantly seen on replay, as was the Tevez off-sides in the subsequent game. No delay would have happened to the games as a result.
I think Germany should have won, but the way they won was not fair, and I as a fan was robbed — not by the ref’s mistake, but by FIFA’s glorification of that mistake, and its “up yours” attitude to people who want the sports that entertain and surprise and uplift us and offer the excitement of uncertain outcome to also be fairer than life is. If the fair result is always achieved by factors not related to the run of play, then why have the sport at all? Why is a victory by a team that played less well, but kept going, and lucked into a poor day of shooting accuracy by the superior opponent not be a fair result, even if they were dominated all day? That’s what sports is about.
On other matters — a 12-year old who shows as little positional discipline as Gerard and Rooney would be benched by his coach. So why are these “highly-skilled” millionaires indulged in this manner?
Im sorry but this was always coming for England your players were not match fit the selections were wierd you leave the best player suited to the counter attack at home and persist with Emile Heskey expect to play long balls and win games.. Did anyone see the level of technical disparity between the Germans and Englands team.. There was no cohesion in passing everyone crowded the centre and just used the full backs to provide crosses.. Where was the one touch short passes and players making runs.. The under 21 setup is not helping either as u have a techincally challenged coach who plays 3 defensive mid fielders and encourages them to lump the ball forward.. the changes have to start from the EPL itself with a non EU quota of 3 on the lines of the spanish and german leagues.. A winter break is essential as its clear the premier league players are exhausted.. All the best players so far have been in leagues with extended winter breaks….And Thirdly focus on ball players right from the under 17 team.. Its a shambles if u look at ur u 17 and u 19 teams players are not encouraged to use techinique at all..
The reason that the Lampard goal changed everything is because of the fact that I don’t believe that England would be SO exposed on the counter attacks for the 3rd and the 4th goal.
It was obvious from that very second that the ball got cleared that Germany would score against poor Glen Johnson all alone.
I don’t think England should be that exposed but I do agree with England going forward in numbers on set pieces.
Another wonderful post ‘holic.
It’s been decades since England have really resided amongst the elite in the world (or the top 10). Having their ‘star striker’ experiencing the worst form I’ve even seen from him made a tall task impossible.
I’m English too…and yes it would be nice to see England do well…but little more than that. I’d trade a world cup for Arsenal winning trophies frequently and even in that sense my expectations got too high…from 1987 until 2005 we did very nicely but no divine right exists.
England did exactly as I expected (and wagered) in this tournament. Being realistic is a good idea!
Woa! – that’s a passionate defence there ‘Hols. But, think of it this way, aren’t you glad that Walcott wasn’t on the plane? For sure the press would be using him and Arsene as scapegoats. ” Arsene is killing the English players..blah..blah..fucking blah..
I don’t know if I’m alone in my thinking, but rather selfishly, I’ve always cared for Arsenal first. England have always been second. I would take Arsenal and the Champs League over England and the World Cup. I know it’s mad, but I simply love the Arsenal more. Does that make sense?
I see certain papers are already calling for Capellos head the same Capello they were lauding for getting us through to the finals as one of only a couple of unbeaten sides,
They of course wouldnt want to upset their luvies who give them the exclusive interviews would they !! How many times are that set of players going to be excused Failure this time it was pretty epic failure at that.
The best thing to happen in my view would be for a complete cull and invest time and maybe a couple of bad results into bringing through the young players such as Wilshere Gibbs Cahill Young etc They can do no worse than this current crop and may well play with a verve and passion so sadly lacking in the egostical twats that are at currently representing us,
Ive a massive dislike for many of the players that now represent our country Mr Terry etc but not many things bring people together like an England world cup game they are always good for a laugh and a great day out as my head will testify to this morning 🙂
The people i feel for again are those that spend fortunes following their country only to be let down with a performance like that as my mate put it so well yesterday, They will be travelling back and have the bills waiting,
But the players will be fucking of on a 5 star holiday at which point they will give their exclusive interviews on where it all went wrong to arsholes like Beasley and Custis sometimes you get the team you deserve and the Media sure have that with this current side where as the incredible support England have deserve so much better,
lord gunner…hilarious…..and today in the sun, shaun custis is already demanding there be a cap on foreign players in the epl…..cant the english press see that if the epl is anything today, it is only coz of the foreign imports…i dont want to watch lumphard, ruiney et al play week in week out like the cavemen they are when it comes to football.english players have no inherent talent other than running aroun for 90 minutes with “english passion”. The Fa should takea a long look at itself and the grass root system.until they generate technically strong players, they cant manage with braindead, overhyped and overpaid foulmouthing idiots on the pitch……u will not win anything in my lifetime….for sure…
I’m sort of back again guys, I was full of piss and vinegar last night and getting ready to launch both barrels about how awful England were and have been throughout and then at 20.23 my beautiful 12 year old Border Collie Scully died in my arms and suddenly I did not care about football anymore
I’m still low as hell today and probably will be for days, but as bitter as defeat was it is only a game and will not affect any of our lives in any meaningful way.
I’ll be watching the Arsenal when the season starts and praying for some solid performances but I think I’ve lost my appetite for mindless criticism
So sorry to hear that draped.
Perspective right there.
chippy, word for word, mate.
Hey im from South Africa, im a huge Arsenal fan, and obviously im loving the World cup in our own back yard. While I dont have too much affection for terry and co and im happy to see the back of them, im not happy about the circumstances. So here is my “If i ruled football” rule change wishlist:
1. Technology for goal line decisions.
2. Technology for offsides decisions.
3. Sin binning for yellow cards (15 minutes)
4. Citing as per rugby, where teams can cite incidents such as diving after the game and have them reviewed.
5. 1st diving offence – 1 year ban. 2nd offence life ban.
6. Clubs can only buy players as long as they are profitable: sides like chelsea and man city whose huge salaries and amortisationse see them making huge losses every year, which can just be topped up by their owners, will not be able to buy players until theyve made up out those losses. So their income from normal operations needs
7. Players may only approach the referee when called by the ref, with the captain – just lke rugby. Going nose to nose with the ref, remonstating with him is an automatic red.
8. Leagues like La Liga must be obliged to conclude equitable TV revenue agreements.
9. Review the points situation for 0:0 draws. At the very least don’t award any points for a 0:0 draw, and actually id like to see the participants in a 0:0 draw docked one point each.
Sorry to here that Draped, A mans best friend indeed.
Holic,
I just find it bizarre that not one journalist has the bollocks to step up and tell it as it is, its almost as tho they are afraid of being sent into isolation surely one of them is Man enough to take the bull by the horns and tell it straight,
You’re right Chippy. Scrap the current lot and start again. It’s a bold decision, and whoever is in charge probably won’t have the balls to do it, but it needs to be done. Getting behind a raw but talented squad, watching them grow and fulfilling their potential will be a lot more fun than squeezing in all the egos of the current players.
Oooh, sounds like I’m talking about the Arsenal.
As a native of a country whose national team thrilled us, then showed us just how far we have to go to really compete — if not for a goalkeeping flub, that would have been us embarrassed by the Krauts yesterday — I think it’s fair to lay the blame for England’s failure where it lies. And it’s all over. It’s not any one man, be it Rooney, or captain Gerrard, or would-be captain Terry, or the injured would-be captain Ferdinand, or the injured former captain Beckham, or even ol’ Johnny Foreigner himself, who’s about to start thinking his full surname is “Capello out.”
Any one of them is a symptom. The disease is system-wide, and the FA is not above it all. Even if someone says, “Capello picked the players,” that begs two questions: Who picked Capello? And who could he have picked that would have been appreciably better? Sol? Maybe. Theo? At this point, probably not. Either England, as a nation, is not producing, or not properly nurturing, players at the youth and high school (or whatever it’s called in Britain) levels, to get them ready for the international level.
In this World Cup, England was, in effect, equalled by America. That, in itself, should be a massive wake-up call, because America is far from ready to get through knockout rounds. At this point, I think our problems are fewer and farther between than England’s. The English players and media thought they could get through this thing on talent and reputation. The talent proved to be insufficient, and meaningless without their heads in the game, and the reputation is in shambles. Firing Capello is a good idea, but it would simply be giving a fresh coat of paint to a crumbling old council house. Time to call the football equivalent of Mike Holmes. (Not, no Sherlock, this guy: http://makeitright.ca/ )
CannonSense,
Well put mate and from the mood i sense most of the country feels the same way but our good old papers blame a coach with an impecable CV you couldnt make it up !!
“Getting behind a raw but talented squad, watching them grow and fulfilling their potential will be a lot more fun than squeezing in all the egos of the current players”.
Love that bit and couldnt agree more, I can just imagine the papers tho if we lost a qualifying game !!
In my view the best thing that could happen is for Capello to keep the job and totally rely on youth but as you say someone at the top must be strong and brave enough to stand by him when the shit hits the fan as it no doubt will do at some stage,
Until this countrys press learn that” get stuck in football” played at 100 miles per hour with elbows and boots flying will never produce a decent national side we are up shit creek,
Instead of promoting the virtues of thugs like Taylor and shawcross they should spend more time on asking questions as to why we lack any sort of technical ability, And the answer would stare them straight back in the face but they wouldnt like what they see,
If Ramseys or Eduardos leg breaks had occured anywhere else in the world there would have been uproar that a technically gifted footballer had been put out of action for a year due to a malicious tackle but not in good old blighty
Afternoon Holic & Holic`s
24 hours have past since what was suppose to pass as England team ready to take the WC by storm. There is no need for finger pointing and he should never wear a England shirt again or replace the manager now hype.
Its happened its over and now condemned to the history books and I for one have got over it already. I believe its time to build for the future, it will be a long hard road with many disappointments but will be worth it in the end.
The papers are on about pride and passion ! I am very sure all those players pulled the shirt on with immense pride, but pride doesn’t win games ability dose and we went out due to lack of ability.
This is all I have to say on the matter as dose it really matter in the cold light of day that we have gone home out of the cup. Dont get me wrong I am English through and through and am proud to be so. But when over rated prima donas get a wake up call and realize maybe I am not as good as I thought it can only be a good thing.
daredindarkness,just seen your comment from earlier.Not football related,but I can really feel for you.We have 6 dogs and rescue abandoned dogs,here on the Costas, and try and home them all over Europe.
The spanish are very family orientated but unfortunately when it comes to dogs,I could tell you some stories that you would never believe.
sorry, I meant drapedindarkness.
Thanks guys and marbellaron not to worry, I would not have taken offence, Please continue to withhold the stories about the Spanish and their dog habits
Today has been stupidly hard on me, feeding her sister without her, waking up and not seeing her lift her head and start wagging that tail……not football related at all so I’m sorry for that
Why does nationalism need to come into it, though. So they lost, people are moaning. It’s not affecting the freedom and lives of anyone here. WWII was a long time ago
Great post as always, ‘holic.
@USA Gunner
As a fellow Yank, I have to disagree, at least a bit. I don’t necessarily think we were more talented than Ghana. They had more skill on the ball, were better at holding it, and moved far quicker than we did to apply the pressure when they lost possession. We’ve come a long, long way over the past decade up front, and had by far the best attacking unit that we’ve ever brought to a cup, but our defense has been woeful. I think we are exactly what we showed Saturday: a team that belongs in the round of 16 but not quite quarter-finals.
From my experience, people here don’t like “English football,” they like the Premier League, and I’m not sure that I’d agree that the latter necessarily represents the former at this point. People here like to watch Chelsea and Arsenal and United, not Blackburn or Stoke, and that’s encouraging to me, at least insofar as the type of play that they’re latching on to.
And lastly, I think that there are valid reasons for a nation to prefer an internal manager. Unfortunately, none of those are the ones cited by callers to 606 and the like. In my opinion, Bradley’s done better than he gets credit for, especially with our patchwork back line. I’d like to see him stay. If not, I think that the USA is at a stage in its football development where bringing in some “outside talent,” particularly from somewhere like Germany or France, could be of real benefit…not just for the management of the 23 players, but for building structurally for the future.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3033699/Arsenal-land-Laurent-Koscielny-for-85million.html
I guess we can say congratulations.
Now we need to focus on a backup for Song and Schwarzer.
It looks like this year AW is building our squad carefully and strengthening our squad in our weak links.
2 more things:
1) Does anyone else notice how hard it is for Robin to shine at the WC? Usually he’s not that quiet and it’s not like he’s not getting balls passed to him. I personally think it’s the awful pitches which make it harder for him to bring his technique to the game cause he is that type of striker and not a Heskey type striker.
2) AW signed Gilberto Silva after WC 2002, when he was practically unknown and was signed due to his performances in that WC. Do you think there will be another such signing after this year’s WC?
Snir,
You gave me quite a scare posting that link. 85 MILLION!!!! That would have been a rather odd transfer fee. 8.5 million is a bit more reasonable.
And for those who only watch Arsenal for Eboue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_pkYxX7VQc&feature=popular
Alot of other countries have almost the same amount of pressure from the media and their country riding on their shoulders, the English just seem to be the worse at dealing with or ignoring that pressure and just playing football. they shouldn’t read the reports and not worry about their egos or anything with the media . but with people like terry in the squad, it seems impossible.
@ Joshua- hahahaha brilliant video
Eboue is damn hilarious!
what a good article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2010/article-1290396/MARTIN-SAMUEL-There-thing-tired-England–excuses.html
Snir Geuli, personally I think that RVP is showing a return to a bit of petulence,which could ignite at any given time.
Nice watching Gilberto yesterday, wish we had held onto him for another couple of seasons.
If I have a beef with our manager it is this over 30 ruling.There appears to be a different rule for every individual.Would make a good post holic, don’t you think ?
Thinking of it, I think that Mertesacker will be the Gilberto Silva of WC 2010…
An unknown player being brought in after good performances at the WC.
Thank you. Thank you so very much Mr Del Bosque, you have done so much more than could be hoped to convince Cesc of where his best interest lies…
And btw there are too many cheaters in your team. It almost made me root for Portugal. Almost.
I cannot believe this. I used to like Spain but they actually cheated more than Portugal today.. which is quite unbelievable thinking that Portugal have a history of cheating , diving and everything else that is unpleasant.
Thing is I am a bit non-plussed re the England thing. I cannot get it straight in my head that, despite not liking what many of these overpaid, self serving bunch stand for, they have to be more talented and more committed than that. Surely.
John Terry – world class defender cannot cock up like a schoolboy just because he is on the righ and not the left.
Fat Frank is more intelligent than the loser we saw out there.
Shrek has the speed of a cheetah, heart of a lion and touch of a artist. It must have been a mirage.
Coaches only do so much – if the blokes that take the field with you have got anything about them – they sort it out amongst themselves. Especially when they have been together (on and off) for eight years.
Come on. How bad was the rift between north and south in the camp?
Also after reading all the comments everywhere about the England team it’s so noticeable that there’s a huge gap between the drummed-up chest-beating antics in the press (and some sections of support) on one side and reasonnable expectations on the other hand.
Just look at the England record in 16 world cups:
– won the title once at home in 1966
– one semi-final in 1990
– 6 quarter finals
– 2 rounds of 16
– 6 results below that
If that was another team’s record (say Holland), thinking rationally you’d say that reaching a quarter-final would be achieving slightly above average expectations and a round of 16 is very slightly below.
Setting expectations so that anything short of winning is an abject failure is nothing but a recipe for a disaster. I dare say it, if England had reached the semi-finals we would have witnessed the same level of team-bashing we do now.
That’s true at club level too. Liverpool is the prime example with many fans against Hogson’s appointment when anyone reading the Liverpool rumours know it’s not far-fetched to see them struggle in the relegation zone at some point next season.
Perspective is exactly what is missing indeed.
Don’t know where it was written but I’m really starting to believe that there is a conspiracy that Del Bosque is trying to prevent Cesc from moving to Barca.
Listen, Del Bosque was a player at Real Madrid, a youth coach there and manager of the senior team that won UCL and La Liga titles. He’s all Real Madrid in his blood.
There is no chance in this world that Cesc doesn’t have a place in Spain’s first 14.
I’m actually starting to believe that Del Bosque is benching Cesc to make him miserable around his Spanish teammates and make him understand London is the place for him.
For the first time today, I noticed that Cesc did celebrate the goal with Villa when he was warming up but he did NOT celebrate after the game with his teammates when all the players who were subbed and the unused subs did celebrate.
This is the first time that I’m sensing that the lack of first team football is getting to his mood.
@Snir: “There is no chance in this world that Cesc doesn’t have a place in Spain’s first 14”
Actually as long as Spain is winning, Del Bosco is proving you wrong. Selecting a team is not about playing the 11 best players, it’s all about choosing the 11 players that will play best together. Cesc and either Xavi or Iniesta don’t play better together than Xavi + Iniesta, although you’d expect the coach to be a bit more daring just in case…
Guardiola will not think differently than Del Bosque as long as Xavi and Iniesta are fit.
Forgot to mention that I think there’s a direct correlation between Cesc’s non-starting status and the reference to Arsene as the man who “means everything” to him in his latest interview.
@Matt – After seeing Del Bosque’s reactions to in game scenarios I’m sure he got his reputation cause he had great players in his team.
I’m very disappointed by the decisions he took. He did not react to anything that happened in any of the games and it’s almost as if he’s waiting for the superstars on his team to win it for him.
I think that Del Bosque is not proving me wrong cause Spain’s winning cause they have the best players in the world, not cause Del Bosque found a system that works for them, if he would have we would have been seeing the Spain of Euro 2008 with Aragounes.
I think Spain is winning despite its manager and not because of him.
I think it’s an absolute outrage to play with both Busquets and Alonso on the same pitch thus limiting the Spanish team a whole lot.
I agree with you about that interview, the word “IF” was also appearing there and I know Cesc will never say in an interview “WHEN” rather than if but it’s the place of the if that made me think.
I really do think that this year’s team has got a chance to do beautiful things with the additions of Chamakh, Koscielny and Schwarzer and I’m expecting another one at least.
@ Matt and Snir
evening chaps. Had exactly the same thoughts about Cesc and bench warming tonight – and the lack of Cescebrations after the game. I couldn’t believe how many subs came on, and still no Cesc.
Matt, where is the “means everything” interview ? – been a bit busy and haven’t come across it. Thanks.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12876_6227701,00.html
There is a sentence he said there –
“Without him, I don’t know if I would be a professional footballer today. I owe him a lot and I have a special affection for him.”
I actually think he said that cause he is experiencing the same disbelief in his abilities in the Spanish camp as he experienced in the Barca youth ranks that made him sign for Arsenal in the first place so he is a lot more grateful to AW for giving him the chance and it’s because of AW that he didn’t quit football.
Cheers Snir, i’ll go and have a read.
Don’t worry about it ;).
Just tell me what you think about that interview, the lack of celebrations, the “Del Bosque conspiracy” and the change in his behavior during the WC…
Personally, i think he can probably hear the words of PHW echoing, as he watches Iniesta and Mr DNA playing together, with Busquets behind, and he thinks of his mate Hleb also warming the bench at Barca.
It must occur to him too, that “cash strapped” Barcelona found 45million for Villa, 70million for Ibrahimovich, now they are talking about Torres, and the 29million they have bid for Cesc is about what they would look to pay for a sub.
He must feel a lot more appreciated by the Arsenal than he does by Spain at the moment.
That is what i think and hope. It won’t be long until we know.
Aragones was playing with Marcos Senna, Del Bosque doesn’t have the luxury of playing a tough enforcer (none world-class available) so he plays 2 Vieira types instead to anchor the midfield. Seems pretty smart to me. I followed him during the Galacticos era and he looked like a pretty good tactician at the time, a bit Mourinohesque/Capelloid. Today his substitution of Torres made the difference so he seems as astute as he was.
Also Spain is the European team to beat. Once a team wins the WC or the EC, all their games become much harder because the opposition give their 110% every single time, it’s their chance to shine.
If anything I believe Del Bosque is one step above Arragones tactically. You may not like his style, no more than Dunga’s. Neither do I. But then this is the style that wins trophies without requiring near-perfection from the players on the pitch.
Matt, I don’t tend to disagree with you, but I have to on this one :).
He seemed clueless to me in the Switzerland game. He put in Navas, Torres and Pedro. That means he put in 2 wide players who are both about 175 tall to do what ? Cross? well we saw how that went for them.
He did sub Torres today but he didn’t change the system, Llorente replaced Torres and brought a change but not due to a change of gameplan.
With all due respect to Switzerland, Honduras, Chile and Portugal (they were awful today not cause they didn’t win but because at 1-0 down with 20 minutes to go they didn’t run their socks off when they should have been eating the grass, they didn’t and it was on the boundary of disrespect to their country) I think Alonso would do a good job sitting back and holding off the opponents’ attacks especially with cover so assuring as Pique and Puyol.
He lost to Switzerland cause his players didn’t win the game, not cause he didn’t win the game and you know what I mean by that.
” But then this is the style that wins trophies without requiring near-perfection from the players on the pitch.” – On the contrary, it does require perfection from his players when they fail to break the opponents’ defenses cause the answer won’t come from the bench cause there are no adjustments.
Spain’s players are used to be the best team (they have 8 players from Barca which is the team to beat in Europe) and the team to beat in Europe so that’s not what’s affecting their games, it’s just like Arsenal – sometimes they break defenses within minutes and sometimes we need Bendtner to head it in in the 95th minute :).
By the way the Home kit launch will be Thursday… Can’t wait to see it 🙂
Del Bosque tried to stretch the swiss defence, that seemed the right thing to do for me. He was unlucky to meet the Swiss on their day and perhaps guilty of trusting Torres to come back to his best too fast after injury. I thought Switzerland played their advantage very very well against Spain rather than Spain being poor that day. Switzerland came for a draw and with a bit of luck who knows? They defended like lions, remained compact and disciplined and got the goal once Spain exposed themselves too much. You choose to blame Del Bosque, I prefer to applaud the Swiss team.
Alonso is not a holding midfielder. He’s a Vieira type, playing next to the likes of Mascherano or Diarra. How can you expect him to anchor the midfield alone since he’s never done it before in club or internationally? Perhaps it could be worth a try in a friendly but at this stage in the WC it would be suicidal.
As for Portugal they were dominated by Spain and I find your judgment on their effort rather harsh. Certainly the defensive half of the team has been working hard until the final whistle.
Sorry, not the launch but the release will be Thursday.
Well Matt, Del Bosque did try to strech the Swiss but it looked awful when all Navas did was cross over and over again as if it worked up until the moment he came on.
Switzerland certainly played their advantage very well on that day but the Spanish made it easy for them as they barely tried to break the defense with 1-2s (Cesc would have been perfect for that game and would add a lot more creativity in the Spanish midfield) and tried to cross it all the time.
Don’t get me wrong – I think the Swiss were heroic that day with their defending but I also think that Del Bosque didn’t on the day make the needed adjustments in order to break down their defense cause it was obvious they were on top of their game and Spain needed something different.
TBH I don’t rate Mascherano that much and I rate Song as way better than him, second only to Essien at his current form.
I do think Alonso would have great success in that role as he is not at all credited for his defensive abilities which are surprising me every time. Another thing is that it is O.K to play with Alonso in that role cause in any case Spain get 75% of the possesion so I think he’ll do the job just fine in the few times he’ll need to.
About the Portuguese, don’t get me wrong again, I think their defensive half and especially the keeper were excellent, but they didn’t even try to get the equaliser and that really disappointed me cause 1-0 or 2-0 in the knockout stages of the WC is the same, but you would get a chance to equalise if you go forward a bit more even if you risk yourself being exposed (of course I’m not talking about doing so in the 50th minute but I find it reasonable to do it in the 80th minute..).
Matt, my complaints on the Spanish team are when they are on the ball not off the ball (for that issue with Busquets and Senna), I think they’re just not as decisive with the ball as they were in 2008, they look lost a lot of times during their possesions.
I’m expecting a lot more from them and that’s why I blame Del Bosque for the way they look so far.
Snir, the way I see it is that Spain (and Barca, for that matter) have porbably to a large degree been found out. They like to play their pretty little triangluar patterns, but when the opposition doesn’t fall into the trap of chasing after the ball and instead just stands back and lets the ball be pinged around in the centre circle nothing much happens. Let the back four and one midfielder crowd the area around the box and Xavi suddenly looks far less impressive. Inter did this to near perfection in the CL against Barca despite being a man down, and Portugal did it very well for most of the game yesterday.
Lars, it’s quite obvious that teams have got Spain’s number recently, but players of these abilities should be able to break any defense.
I thought Cesc had a place there yesterday, it kind of looked like Arsenal Vs. City at home when Cesc was injured and we just couldn’t break their defense. Cesc would do wonders on this Spanish team.
http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/images/jun_10/gun__1277880789_fabregas_portugal.jpg
I think this picture says it all…
He’s been experiencing a change of mood in the Spanish camp, look at his face expression when all of his other teammates are celebrating the qualification to the quarters…
Something there seems weird, he’s not happy there anymore (like he was when we was recovering from the injury) and I think he’s seriously considering a change of heart and understands the best place for him is London.
For those still interested in the Ingeland defeat, Arsene came up with this explanation which makes total sense to me:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/world-cup-2010/world-cup-2010-news/-england-were-killed-by-their-own-impatience-
“England were impatient,” he said in an exclusive interview with Arsenal.com. “They came back in the second half to 2-1 and they controlled the game.
“What made me sad was that, with the experience they had, they were caught. It was ‘free-kick for England, goal for Germany’.
“They had taken over the game and I think they were killed by their impatience. You do what they did with five minutes to go OK, but not with 25 minutes left.”
“Many teams start slow in the group stage,” he said. “I remember in 2006, France were horrible in the group stage but they found momentum in the Quarter-Final and Semi-Final because they had no pressure any more. England suffered under pressure. They did not look sharp.”
“Also England did not seem to be at the level to use their main strength – the huge pace they put in the game. Was that physical fatigue or a mental reason I don’t know. But you never found the sense of English football in there.”