A Game I Have Seen Before
Mar 19th, 2011 by 'holic
My first trip to the Hawthorns was towards the end of the 1970-71 season. We were scrapping with Leeds for the League title, and nerves got the better of us that day. An own-goal from Asa Hartford enabled us to come away with a point from a 2-2 draw. History sort of repeated itself forty years on.
The Arsenal that went into this encounter have yet to prove to many that they have the character of that first double team. In their defence it should be pointed out that the side played their last match before the international break minus five key players. However we are not the only side that suffers injuries. Our rivals for the Premier League title were reduced to ten men today, but still found a potentially vital winning goal in the final two minutes at Old Trafford.
Not for the first time this year the Gunners squad players were found woefully lacking in confidence and sharpness. Both of the goals that gave the Baggies the lead were gifts. Aaron Ramsey was making his first start in an Arsenal shirt since being ‘Shawcrossed’ over a year ago, and so is relatively immune from the fury being directed at some of his team-mates today. His contribution to the first, and his failure to grab the equaliser from point-blank range, can be largely overlooked for now as he is not a serial repeat offender in the ‘not good enough’ stakes.
I will say once again that the decision not to start Samir Nasri in the Cesc role is utterly unfathomable to me. When he was finally switched there the task before him was almost immediately doubled. The pictures told the story. No words suitable for a family audience could adequately explain the monumental blunders by Squillaci and Almunia that presented Odemwingie with a second goal for the hosts. The situation for both is now extremely difficult. Whilst we can anticipate a return for both Fabregas and Walcott after the international break, we won’t be getting a goalkeeper or another centre-half fit. They have to play, and in the knowledge that a good chunk of the supporters are likely to react to any further howlers.
The comeback, when it arrived, came off the back of a rare switch to a fluid 4-4-2 formation. Chamakh’s introduction allowed Nasri to get in the engine room, but it was the Moroccan himself who teed up Arshavin for a spectacular first goal. The Russian then turned provider, his far post cross finding Bendtner, and in the resulting scramble van Persie managed to force home the scruffiest of goals. It was the brightest spot of a thoroughly frustrating afternoon.
Astonishing though it may seem, that equaliser means we are still, mathematically, in charge of our own destiny. Win the last nine games and we will be champions. However there needs to be a massive injection of belief for a side incapable of beating West Brom home or away to overcome the far bigger tests that are to come. We will also be relying on two or three players who, for their own good, may be better off elsewhere next season.
I hope the majority will appreciate that all we can do as supporters is support. So many, this writer included, were gutted, and yet not surprised, at the second Baggies goal. Slaughtering those who we will be depending on in the closing weeks is hardly helpful under the circumstances. Given what is still at stake it could be more productive to reserve any venom for the season’s end.
A word too for those who wish to comment in the drinks after this piece. Invariably after a day like today I have to delete a handful of posts by people who seem unable to grasp the simple rules that are in place. Don’t post just personal abuse, either of the players, the staff, or fellow ‘holics. I have no problem with anyone saying they ‘don’t rate x because….‘, but I will not have mindless drivel such as ‘y is shit‘. Thanks to the vast majority who do take that on board and make the drinks a good place to be, most of the time.
Cheers all.
305 Responses to “A Game I Have Seen Before”
Thirst!!
Get the drinks in
Down – To Consistency and Character
When the workforce at Salter’s Spring Works decided in 1878 to form a football club to play under the name West Bromwich Strollers, did they ever think that it would lead to so many historic moments in the years leading up to today? And surely, there can have been few more historic moments than playing The Arsenal at The Hawthornes with the Gunners only ten games away from Premier League Victory?
Yes, the occasional league championship. Yes, relatively frequent cup finals. Yes, the regular visits behind the iron curtain in European games. Yes, the first team ever to play in China – but NEVER this level of historic intensity – never before The Arsenal with ten to play to win the Premier League.
You could see it in the eyes of Baggie Bird and Baggie Bird Junior before kick off. Their mascots’ eyes were wide and white with a fear that must certainly be rippling through their players in the dressing room. The Throstles’ Apostles sitting in the stands were cowed and bent with nary the anticipation of a single “Boing” amongst the entire assembly. Could you ever blame them? Never – this, after all, was The Arsenal, The Mighty, Mighty, Arsenal. The smell of fear was in the air
BUT….it dissipated within two and a half minutes! Slip slap slop defending on our right resulted in a totally unnecessary corner. Nice ball over, but not anything that a competent defense couldn’t manage. But without Song and Djourou, we don’t have a competent defense and so, “Boing” The Baggies made it FOUR against us this season with a very straightforward header past Almunia.
We huffed and puffed then and, apparently the stats say we reached 74% possession. Despite that we only had one header that hit the post and a Ramsey shot that should have made it 1-1. So, in for a cup of tea with tails between legs and too many in red looking extra-ordinarily ordinary, with Denilson and Arshavin leading the choir in a chorus of “Ordinary Me”.
Chamahk’s intro for the hapless Denilson added shape and purpose. Ramsey’s cross to Robin was pefect but RvP headed past. And then, “Fawlty Towers the rerun – Manuel Strikes Back!” A harmless ball down the middle of our defense had Squirming Squillacci squalling hopelessly in squirmland. “I’ll help you out,” roars our brave waiter surging thirty yards from his line to save the day.
But WBA had spotted a flaw in Manuel’s cunning plan. Unbeknown to him he’d left the goal completely unguarded behind him. So, “Boing” The Baggies popped the ball right in there for FIVE. Jens looked on – perplexed, amused? The smell of another disastrous carbuncle was in the air. It hung over the ground like a particularly noxious fart.
But, another twist! Andrei Arshavin had been to his barber. Russia’s finest haircut latched onto a Bendy ball to crack a beauty past Carson. Then, he wriggled past two defenders to force a cross for Bendy to body back and enable Robin to thwack a 1 mph rocket wheezily over the line for a dodgy 2-2. They all count. Could we win it?
Still we contrived to leak another at the back and Fortune nearly killed us on 81 minutes. Arsenal pressed but the attackers couldn’t completely undo the defense’s dirty deeds. “Berbatoss scored for United” comes the news. Advantage gone. Quite unnecessarily so. One point from a possible six versus West Brom?? That doesn’t get the job done.
The positives? Not many really. Cesc, Song, Theo might be fit for the rest of the run-in. Jens might start the next game in goal. Apart from that, not too much. Great to see Aaron back, but the rest of this season will just be about getting back to pre-Shawcross (who’s not that kind of a boy).
Off on a midnight flight to Dubai tonight, barman. A little something to soothe the nightmares and help me sleep soundly please.
The problem coming up is that Emirates in filled with the type of slaggers that infiltrate shite like Le Grove. Certain players are targetted and will never play well now because every perceived mistake is jumped on by sheep who don’t know any better. God help us if we were ever in relegation trouble again (like the mid-70’s). The crowd certainly wouldn’t help!!!
3 1164’s watching England flop in the rugby followed by a Curry & several Cobras for me!
Thanks for a calm and measured post ‘holic.
At 2-0 down, this was the first time in the whole season that I finally lost belief. And it was the first and only time I’ve been really angry (the first loss against West Brom at the Emirate was laughable, the loss against the spuds inexplicable as was Newcastle…hang on a sec…)
Anyway, this was downright inexcusable. We have no choice in supporting the team we do, but before the first Arsenal goal, I was mightily pissed-off. It all seems so familiar. It made me re-evaluate what the oiks in the media have been saying for years, what most of my non-Arsenal mates have been saying. Even the missus.
Is it true? That we just don’t have the mental strength or belief? I don’t know. And then we bang in another to make it 2-2. And it seems there’s still the slightest glimmer of a chance.
But, for the first time this season, my confidence in us winning has all but gone. It just wouldn’t surprise me if we finished second.
Out to get smashed — drinks on me!
Up the Arse
Don’t rate Manuel Almunia because he is shit? That alright?
You know me, ‘holic and ‘holics. I am very much a glass half full and I still am. I still firmly believe that we can win the league this year. But I’d rather not see Almunia in goal again. I love the man. I really do. I think he is a nice bloke, and he has always been a supporter of this club, on and off the pitch, as long as he has been here. I am just a tad tired of him being self-named sweeper in our midfield.
Nah, seriously. Sorry for my first sentence, just couldn’t help myself. He surely is not shit. He just seems to have managed to get quite far as a keeper without really having the full grasp timing (or raising two hands instead of one?). Again, respect him as a man, but I’d rather have someone else in goal.
Regarding the rest of the match, of course I’m disappointed, but I thought we did quite well going forwards after the 2-1 goal. Just a bit sad we didn’t start earlier. And I’m well with you, ‘Holic, on playing Nasri in the Fabregas position. A bit confused by that call (ie not playing him there). But good call by Wenger to get Chammy on so early, it almost did the trick.
And oh, @Lars, sorry for not being in the mood for finding you after the game. Came late to the show (1-0 when I arrived) and afterwards I was a bit fed up with, ah, you know, football and life in general.
Now, let’s just win the next nine!
Up the Arse!
We’re still in this…and I think the bad refereeing is now going to help us: Exhibit A was Bendtner’s ‘cross’ for our 2nd goal…don’t think that was his head.
I said we had 30 minutes to salvage our league campaign out loud to nobody but the cat today…and I think we did just that. Still sick about the first 70 minutes.
It’s not creative but please let us go with a traditional 4-4-2 for the remainder of the season as I think we’re going to need a lot of goals to get maximum points.
keeping the faith (just) though I was close to losing it when they went two up…you seemed to be there too ‘holic !!
Anyways, going out to get drunk and dance to some old soul music. Lars, give me a shout if you’re going out tonight!
What are your opinions on this question?
i dont rate almunia
I’m not one of those calling for half the team to go but enough is enough. Players that must go by the end of the season are Almunia, Denilson and maybe Squillaci if we can get a good replacement for him or promote either Bartley or Miguel or both. I’d like the club to keep Rosicky, Bendy, Eboue…etc but not the aforementioned three.
Sorry Holic got to disagree about the West Brom 2nd goal, this was entirely down to Almunia, he was about 5 yards outside the box with his defender in good shape to deal with the ball. We have seen the identical scenario from him many times in the past (including that game against Man U), the dickhead doesn’t learn. I thought he should have saved the first as well, it was straight at him at head height. Denilson was piss poor too.
Having said that, a very pedestrian performance all round. Can’t think of any positives.
even after that pathetic performance wenger is still bangin on about mental strength….what a joke he has become,,that should be the last of almunia we ever see but its 3 seasons to late,,and thats wengers fault nobody elses
@ Allez – unless Eduardo can play in goal…no I don’t think letting him go was the issue this season (though I hated seeing him leave). We’re likely to finish 1st or 2nd in goals scored this season – and would have strolled that aspect of the formula if Cesc was fit all year.
Can’t agree entirely WU,
Squillaci should have put the ball, and Fawlty if necessary, into orbit.
I think you’re being a bit harsh on y there ‘holic. He’s been out for a while and his introduction was like a new signing. Fair enough he went off 5 mins later with a pulled appendage and directly contributed to the second goal as well as instigating an FA investigation that’ll probably see us have points deducted but give the lad a break, it’s not his fault the manager picks him!
in fairness, we were very poor today… i cannot think of one arsenal player who had a good game. even jack and nasri were mediocre by their standards.
HOWEVER, I do feel its time some people shoulder some responsibility. Even if jack and nasri play horribly until the end of the season (which they won’t) we cannot ask any more from them. rvp too has come in with aplomb. djourou was imperious. which name is missing from this list gents? yep. That’s right. Cesc Fabregas.
He was injured today, and in fairness has missed massive chunks of the season. but now is his time.. 8 games left. the above mentioned lads have kept us in this race so far, now its time for our best player to really turn up.
either by leading the lads or winning 8 games singlehandedly, i don’t care. for someone who wanted to leave because we weren’t good enough, he has not come even close to his best all season (not to mention the horror at camp nou). he owes a duty to the arsenal fans, his colleagues and the boss who built an entire side around him. I want my captain to win us the league.
Long time listener, first time caller.
Always appreciate the measured tone of the blog, which is in sharp contrast to some of the hysteria found elsewhere. The above is no exception.
It’s been a properly difficult afternoon, and I can empathise with those above who found themselves losing belief for the first time this season. Obviously the whole thing is made even worse by the fact that our title rivals typify exactly the qualities we lack – they can play like shite but still pull out a win.
What I will say is this – there are two main factors which are preventing us from picking up the silverware we all crave. The first is that, for better or worse, we spend less than those around us. In the context of what he’s spent, it’s a miracle arsene has us challenging at all. Not sure what we can do about that – Utd look skint to me, but presumably City will continue to spend despite the new rules.
The second factor is injuries. I know it doesn’t need pointing out, but it feels like we suffer through the same nightmare at this point in the season each and every year these days. I know that others sides take knocks too, but I honestly can’t recall a team ever losing three keepers for the season at once – it’s madness. Couple that with players constantly being rushed back, risked in games where they’re not fit and generally gambled on, and I can’t help but think we’re missing a trick. One of chesney or djorou on the pitch today and we win that game, simple as that. I know arsene took a look at the issue last season, but I think it may be time to shake up the physio team a bit.
Finally, a word for the three or four players who are (justifiably) taking stick at the moment. Denilson – needs to move on for his own good. I like the lad, but he’s a square peg in a round hole – never a defensive midfielder and should go and find a side who’ll let him play further up the pitch. He looks like he already has his bags packed mentally. Diaby – there’s clearly some talent in there, but he’ll never make the grade if he can’t get a run without injury (look what it did for theo earlier in the season), and he seems incapable of that. The st James park fiasco is probably going to end up costing us the title, but I think the performance at old trafford was the final straw. Almunia – nothing needs saying, does it? I actually feel sorry for the geezer – he’s been a dead man walking since chesney pulled on the jersey at old Trafford and he’s clearly gone in the summer. Squillaci – the biggest disappointment of the lot for me. Everyone begged wenger to sign an experienced centre back, so he did and the geezer has been a shambles. I’m sure he’s a decent player but he’s not adapted to English football at all (compare and contrast with kos) and I can only hope that the manager cuts his losses in august rather than persevering in typical fashion.
All the rest, I’ve no complaints. Even the Russian, I get what he’s for. Even NB52. But we do need to chop the four mentioned above (and rosicky) this summer, because when we’ve needed them they’ve consistently been found wanting. Frimpong and Ramsey can deputise for song next term, we can bring in a new centre back (two if vermaelen isn’t fit by august) and then we can proceed to address the two areas where we’ve really lacked depth.
Shockingly, to me at least, these have been at attacking centre mid (where we’ve cried out for quality cover every time cesc is out) and a clinical centre forward, because when van persie’s not fit we currently rely on a very unpredictable bendtner and chamakh, who has never been prolific (although I suspect he’ll step up a gear next season).
With everyone fit, the first xi looks good to me – as good as it has in a long time. But the b team have proved time and again they’re not up to scratch, and the same players proved it again today. It would do the squad some good for the likes of Diaby and Denilson to be moved on – the message has to go out that if you’re not good enough, you’ll have to leave. Not just because you’re in your 30s, not just because some troglodyte has ended your career at the top level – you can be 24 and not good enough for Arsenal, and if you’re not then best wishes and on your way.
Apologies for the essay, and apologies again if all I’ve done is repeat old ideas (which is what it feels like), but god that all felt good to type.
Anyway – onwards and upwards. I can’t see us winning the league with this keeper, but we’re still in it and as of tomorrow we should all get back behind the team. If there’s going to be a bloodbath then let’s have it properly in May when the final verdict is in.
If there’s one thing that still gives me a flicker of belief it’s that utd must be due some bad luck and we must be due some good. I refuse to believe that a team with no midfield will win the league at a canter.
Come on you Gooners.
We’ve not had much joy against teams in black and white stripes this season, I’d strongly recommend all gooners to steer well clear of zebras just to be on the safe side.
I think Mr Wenger got his tactics all wrong again today, he redeemed himself a little by replacing the sadly under par Denhilson and a little later the returning Ramsey. With a bit of balls up front (RvP, Bendy & Chamakh) we looked a better team, a team with an arial threat, a team that no longer was running into a brick wall by continuously trying to go through the middle. All of a sudden we had a bit of width and targets to aim for with crossed balls. I hope that Mr W will take this on board and set up his teams accordingly in the last nine games.
I’m not gonna get to much into the defencive defiecencys, I’m sure many will have their say on that particular issue. Unfortunatly there’s absolutly nothing that can be done. I can’t see AW playing Jens unless it is completly unavoidable and I’m not sure if Miguel is up to task of the PL, although I may be willing to take a gamble (it can’t be that big of a risk considering)
We could see this as two points lost, but I prefer to see it as one point gained, we looked dead and buried before the Russian striked and I for one couldn’t see us mounting a comeback, but we did and it’s much better to go into the international break with a draw then with a loss. For once the timing of the break may actually be to our advantage, it will give Theo, Cesc and Song time to recover so they can join us for the remainder of the season.
As ‘holic said it is still in our own hands so lets hope that Arsene and the lads can clean these so called hands, because at this moment it seems that they are covered in grease and things are slipping through the fingers.
I’ll have a pint of cider please my good man.
Cheers.
Nine games to to. Nine results between now and a premier title. Or a runners up spot. But nine games. I really hope that our ‘weak-willed’ players are more reluctant to throw in the towel than many of our so-called supporters seem to be. Play to the whistle, I was always told. Play to the whistle. Good advice, for players … and fr supporters alike.
Guinness and Jameson chaser, please, my good man. I’m celebrating an Ireland victory this evening!
Nice one roadkill.
N7, you are more than welcome here with quality essays like that 😉
A lot of good sense has been written on various blogs today and as ever there is much in Holic’s blog. We are by no means the only club with plastic fans-the problem is that like Man u we have such a big ground we attract more.
I have never booed an Arsenal player and never will during a game but it has become the fashion to turn on players much more easily now because people at arsenal games come to be entertained by winning rather than to support.
The only issue which warrants a show of disapproval from the supporters is Wenger’s intransigence. We are losing faith in him tactically and as a motivator but above all he seems to defy opinion simply because he is a control freak who never does things on a knee-jerk basis and who seems hellbent on repaying our loan rather than equipping us for a full season.
Until the end of this season Almunia,Squillaci and denilson will have my full and partisan support.Until then I hope i never see them again!
N7, good maiden speech from the member for, well, N7 I suppose.
Agree with many of your sentiments on the players. Better to wait until the fat lady sings though. Who knows, Diaby and Deni may have nine blinders each as we go on to win this. Anyway, welcome.
Hey BtM, no mean piece of warbling yourself. Has her nellieness got over the birthday booze yet?
Goonerholic…
This blog feels like a haunted house where all the portraits’ eyes are in fact real and following your every move.
I suppose on one level its the Kubrick-esque intense red background and on another level your Communistic approach to censoring comments in a passive aggressive manner.
Just thought Id share that with you!
We will finish 3rd, no doubt about it.
And we should be grateful for that – that is 100% the thinking from the club
Now pay the price for your increased ticket prices or f*ck off. If you’re lucky we’ll pretend that some ‘super super class players have been identified’.
@Bob John,
You are so right and I have been saying the same thing all season. These so-called fans simply fail to realise the damage they do. The players they regularly target must hate the match atmosphere, mainly at the Emirates I’m ashamed to say……..the silence, the groans, the cries of exasperation and then the derision directed at them personally. When will they learn.
I would just like a reply of any kind please….With the customary abbreviaion of moniker – merci.
Now Fangs, it is a pleasure to be abused by someone who uses language correctly…
Last year just before the run-in we won 6 on the spin. In the last 7 games we amassed about 7 points if my memory serves me right.
That had a horible familiarity to the debacle that followed the Birmigham fiasco a few years ago.
Even in the early Wenger years we had a lot of red cards finishing and winning games with 10 men.
Under George 1-0 was a given.
For me collectively this lot lack bottle and in the past I for one have thought Denilson and Diaby would step up to the plate.
Utd have been p–s poor this year but they certainly know how to win a game.
One minute Wenger is telling us we have the mental strength, the next that there is nobody in the dressing room capable of lifting the team.
We will be lucky to finsih third. But top four is still not a shoe in and the only way I think we will stay in the top 4 is cos most of the others are still involved in more than one competition.
I’ve supported Arsenal since 72′ and honestly feel that as a defensive unit this is the worst we’ve had.
Any thoughts?
I read a lot of blogs from top arsenal bloggers talking about how the supporters are not helping matters with their constant moaning, an i just laugh. It is one thing to support your team through hell and back, at least you know there is always a way back. Hell, I can imagine supporting relegation bound teams through thick an thin, knowing fully well that for all the hard work your team has put out, they are just not good enough to muster any real challenge. Yet, supporting this arsenal team has gone from a point of cup half empty, pessimism or whatever word you want to describe it to a sense of indifference. Yes, I am just indifferent now to this team’s performance and ability to mount any serious challenge for the premier league title. God knows I’ve said my share of prayers, sleepless nights and endless worry just believing this team can actually live up to the potential that we all believe they possess, only to be let down time and time again. And the most worrying thing is the inability of the manager to realise his project has failed, the inability to make drastic/required changes when the opportunities arises, the insistence of continuing with this flawed system that every opposition now seems to have a grip on, the total lack of wingers in our team, all the time playing the ball in front of 9 defenders and being susceptible to the simplest of counter-attacks. Worst of all is the seemingly lack of urgency in the tempo of our game. How much longer do we think Man U will have to slip up for us to take advantage? Honestly, I cannot be bothered now. I kinda knew our season was going to end up as it had so far, that before the Carling cup final, I was contemplating putting a few bucks on us losing/drawing the next couple of important games, at least winning a few dough will put a little smile on my face. Does that make me a bad supporter? Not really. Just one that’s accepted the reality that until we make changes both in the structure/personnel of the team and our style of play, this team will time and time fall on their face at crucial moment. As they say, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.. I honestly pray and hope this team can prove me wrong and go ahead to win the league, but honestly I am not holding my breath.
I genuinely want Wenger to start Lehmann – he simply could not do any worse, and he at least comes for bloody crosses, rather than staring gormlessly at them, Dracula-like. Just such a shambles.
As usual, nice post. Was following the game on Arseblog, good updates but a right bunch commenting!
There are some bits to get despondant about, but we are still in with a good chance with the league. The Mancs luck must run out sometime, coupled with their fixture pile up. There is no way they will win every game from here on to the end.
Lens in goal next match?!?!
Pint of Otter for me please. Oh and a bottle of Thatchers Katy to follow!
So how are you Kev?
Cheers for the fair write-up ‘holic.
I’m not quite sure what Squillaci really did wrong apart from not expecting Almunia to switch back to ‘lost rabbit’ mode.
Perhaps he could have got to the ball before it hit the ground first, but I really would lay all the blame on Almunia for this one.
Am I also being slightly harsh in thinking he could indeed have saved the header?
I’m on call, but a whisky will be most welcome.
hi holic ,looks like i was right the last time i was on here from going for four trophys it looks like we will end up with nothing again this season . surely the buck stops with the manager lets give him he’s p45. and get someone in who can motivate the team instead of doing faulty towers impersinations on the touchline.
I can’t stress enough how timely this international break is ….. Sort it Arsene!
Evening holic and holics. I guess what really disappoints me about today is that I am really not surprised. Not surprised one bit. I highlighted pre match my fears with almunia and the centre backs. I have lost count this season how many basic errors have really cost us massively.
I have aired my views on many occasions within the bar. Many have disagreed with me. I see no need to ramble on yet again except to say that it is the same problems that have been highlighted for the past 2 years. I just hope that one day we will eventually the lessons.
Onwards and upwards.
Evening Holic & Holics
I was at work when a nice spud fan told me we were 2-0 down, he was then suprised that my face showed no expression just pure indifference to the news he delivered in a very gleefull maner.
Reading comments on the worthy of read blogs it dose seem that I am far from on my own in thinking that are great team wants to personally bring the PL trophy upto Manchester.
It is hard to recall such a season that no team has reached out with two hands and say this my trophy ! this title is comming home with us !
I am very concerned about the teams morale at this moment, they have taken a fair few kicks in the teeth of late and no leader seems to want to take the team by the scuff of the neck and lead by example and show the lads that with hard work and determination this title is theirs for the taking.
Because if not this season ? When ?
Arsenal help us believe ! Please !
What will be even more gutting if the Mancs take the title is that Ferguson has his worst squad in memory.
Someone up there must enjoy laughing in our faces. He/she has Almunia make outstanding saves against Barca and then orchestrates a cock-up like today (and don’t think we didn’t notice that wicked backspin when the ball first bounced).
A glass of your finest claret, as ever, ‘Holic, to encourage a mood of mellow reflection for the Interlull.
I have to disagree in regards to Squillacci making the blunder, FlappyAlmunia made the first as for the second he should never play premier league football again.
Denilson looks a shadow of the player he use to be not looking good for him, he made mistake after mistake. He should be sold he has not made improvement to his game at all.
Same goes to Diaby I’m afraid, always injured and his temper doesn’t help either.
Still pissed off two points lost and by far not good enough!
Almunia is to blame the fact that he was there put squilly in two minds,almunia was never going to get that ball,one good thing out of this AW hopefully has seen the formation he must play with the players he has at his disposal no question about that 4=4=2.
@Fangs,
Dude,your weirder than me. I live in Santa Cruz, what’s your excuse.
The almunia,denilson,squidiki “Axis of Feeble” strikes agian.
If this means we see the back of those 3 it will be worth it.
It got so fucking grim Wenger went 4-4-2. That’s as close as he’ll ever get to admitting being wrong.
Hows the Frank Sinatra song go?
“That’s life, I can’t deny it.
Sure I’ve thought of quittin’
But my heart just won’t buy it”
Absolut Kamikazes tonite… two weeks hence, a win.
Go Gunners!
leftcoastgooner , the problem with arsenal is our backup players , wenger got them at garage sale , there is not much you can expect .
denilson , bendtner , sq18 , almunia are not axis of feble , they belong to axis of disaster
wenger just has to go … end of !
At 2-2 I thought the ‘holic pound could be on.
At least the Villa can’t catch us now
y is shit 😉
Good report and many good points in the drinks.
The only real positive aspect I see from this game is that once we play Nasri in the middle and a bunch of attack-minded players we’re unstoppable.
I really hope Arsene will take notice, won’t get afraid of losing games and have the team attack from the get go in the remaining games because that game told us what we knew already: with the handbrake on we’ll win nothing.
Another point I stringly disagree with: Squillaci had a good game, he made a wondeful last ditch save and was decent all along. I’m still convinced he’s the best 4th choice CD we’ve had for as long as I can remember and the perfect stop-gap solution while Bartley gets up to speed. He’s not as good as the other 3? Sure, that’s why he is 4th choice.
Just watched MOTD. To be fair as much as I hate that lot they were fair. The remainder of the season is in our hands now. We have a lot to take advantage of regarding Manures run in. For a change we are not the team with the heavy schedule and injury list plaguing us at the same time at the moment. Although we could do with some extra legs in the squad and could get that after the internationals!
Either way, let’s go and get that title!
Drinks all round!
We can’t change anything much before the end of the season (returning injured players excepted), so lets save the season analysis until then.
Yes, today was shite.
Yes, there are doubts about certain players.
Yes, I have concerns about belief / mental strength or whatever.
Yes, I don’t agree with ‘rugby-pitch’ excuses.
but…
I support Arsenal, and sometimes it hurts, but I can’t change that so I’ll take the pain and celebrate (or not) in May.
Can’t say that any of the last 9 games will be comfortable. I can only see a nervy end to the season. We’d better hope goals start coming from all over, clean sheets may be a thing of the past. Can we win the league? Of course we can, we are the Mighty Arsenal.
9 games 9 points
@47 Matt: I admire your positive spin on Squillacci. I have some trouble reaching that level of enthusiasm for him. But you’re right, his late body block was critical.
I suspect there will be few tears around if he is a departee at the end of the season though.
58 + 27 = 85
Holic,
Great post as usual.
What really fucks me off is over the past few years, we havn’t even pushed the league winners to go and win their remaining games when we were in with a shout & unfortunately, I can see that happening again. And I can’t understand how Wenger has written off Chelsea. If they win their game in hand they’ll only be 4 points behind us so I think they’re smack bang in the run-in.
Like others I just feel numb and indifferent because nothing surprises me anymore.
Good morning to you all!
Its the crunch part of the season where everybodys exhausted. Some of the players are running on fumes, so resiliance is very important now. On a positive note, we did battle back well.
My point is this – every squad has its passengers. A squad needs second and third choice players, its balance. A winning team needs one more thing though- a top class goalkeeper with a world cup or 2 under his belt if possible. If we had a top level keeper we might have won the CC. Think of the points dropped against Spurs, Newcastle, todays game….
We would probably be top of the league with a cup in the bag already.
Ill happily accept the lesser players in our squad, if only we could have a world class keeper between the sticks.
Without a doubt its the biggest weakness in our first team.
p.s. love the calmness and rational chat on this blog. Keep
up the good work!
Fantastic travelling support today.
2-nil down and out-singing the Baggies.
Hard fought point.
Gritty show against a very applied West Brom.
Defense a shambles but they can’t be that bad every week.
Still in control of our own destiny.
I can live with it.
Come on you rip-roaring reds!
Finishing 2nd would be a good result: automatic qualification for the Champions League. Of course it would be so much better to win something, and being nearly men does seem to unhinge the mind from time to time, but a team finishing 2nd in the Premier League is a good result. Finishing 5th or lower would be much more disappointing in the bigger picture.
@tomNW5
Tom I watched the game on TV with the volume off and listened to the official Arsenal audio gamecast. You guys were fucking great.
Our point goes to you because you didn’t quit and wouldn’t let the boys give up.
I’m convinced it was the away fans that kept the lads from falling off the edge after that second very poorly conceded goal.
An invaluable if totally unheralded piece of service.
Remember that if by some act of providence we take the title.
I for fucking sure will.
BtM, I’m sorry man, I know you love Denilson, but how he still catches every player that comes at him and moves the ball a bit (like the penalty he conceded against Leeds) after years in the first team is beyond me. He just lacks a whole lot, he is not good enough for Arsenal.
Almunia should never be allowed at London Colney but we already knew that.
Still have some hope, but it’s slowly diminishing.
I have been hoping to see a 4-4-2 for a while; I believe RVP and Chamakh can be great together. Without Song, we don’t have the makings of a central three anyway. Today, maybe for the first time ever, Arsene made the changes i wanted exactly. Denilson is painful to watch and Nasri is next year’s Cesc, so why not play our best player in the playmaker role. I really hope we stick with this formation now and see if it can inject some confidence, as well as make us a little less predictable. Nasri and Cesc can interchange through the middle, with Wiltshire playing support. Admittedly, requiring Arsharvin to chase back is a worry, but you can’t win them all.
What about the defence you say?
Well, i gotta go grab a VT thanks my man. Evening!
First time contributor, long-time reader. I love this blog ‘holic, really do. It’s got a lovely atmosphere. If only I could watch games alongside you all. Gents, the lot of ya!
I would just like to say im gutted!!!
I believe in this team and have a pretty much unwavering faith in Wenger, but i really do think we have to get rid of a few players who just do not deserve to wear the colours of the Arsenal. I am sick of seeing players sauntering around the pitch, not chasing back and basically making mistakes (on a regular basis)you would very rarely see from any of the other teams at the top!
Our first 11 is brilliant yet we all know there is no chance of them playing every week, its time to get rid of the dead wood let some of the younger players currently on loan like lansbury have a chance as well as bringing in two or three top quality players in the summer!
I could think of five players we could lose and to be honest i dont think anybody would bat an eyelid, i don’t think i need to name any names.
Up at 2 am in sydney
Heavy rain outside
At 2.03 thought about going back to bed
Waiting for the gunners to click…waiting
Ramsey unlucky,on another day he would have scored
Halftime
I don’t blame squil, he was no doubt as surprised as me 8000 miles away to see faulty on his shirttails.
At this stage what kept me out of bed was the gunners faithful singing their hearts out
Great goal by the rash’
When van persie rocketed the second in I thought hello we could win this
Chances at both ends and then the whistle
Almost 4am back to bed to try and sleep
At least I have a couple of weeks of unbroken sleep
Follow the arsenal
Well done to away support you were very loud in Sydney,
Every team has some fringe players. the problem is ours are youn and play for arsenal so they think they are uperstars while others (think pedro with Barca, most of the Man Utd squad) know that they have to compensate for being less talented by working harder every game. Really really disappointed this leauge was ours to win not doubt about it. Now I am not so sure. Denilson Almunia maybe even Bendtner, your time to prove yourself is up. I have never ever called for any of their heads (besides Almunia) but enough is enough,
‘holic,
On the iPad so spelling might be garbage. In the cold light of day, can anyone say they truly expected anything different from this team at this stage? Wenger won’t play Nasri where he’d do the most good. He won’t purchase a centerback in January when he knew Verm wouldn’t return this season. He stubbornly adheres to his “philosophy” when the players he keeps faith with, and gives contract extensions to, continue to flatter to deceive.
I have thought a great deal about our team since the loss in Barcelona. I still think Barca play exquisite football. I also think they are repugnant, cynical, divers who are an insidious threat to this game. But, one thing I will give them is, dammit, they work their asses off. Every time I have watched them, I marvel at their work rate; at how quickly they close down and regain possession. At this point we are second-rate charlatans. How many times have I watched our boys and yelled at the TV to “close them down?”
Wenger has lost this team. He can’t or won’t scare the shit out of them. He can’t or won’t find the motivation. I dunno. I know he has brought this club numerous honors, but…not during my, albeit brief, term of affiliation. I don’t pretend to know the answers, but I do know this particular team will not win anything. Maybe next year. If you think we will win nine straight, well God bless you.
What have we learned?
Brilliant post. I like reading your posts holic because you are one of very few blog writers who will not automatically slate an individual player, but you actually look at team performances in general, and take positives from games. I cannot stand the fickle ‘supporters’. You know who I mean. The people who will slate individual players like Bendtner, Denilson, etc…yet are happy enough to celebrate and sing their name when they score a vital goal. These people are fans, not supporters. That is a huge difference my friend. We still have a game in hand on red nose & co, plus we face them on our soil. Keep the faith Gooners! In Arsene we trust!!
moMomey2
bang on amigo. i hav ebeen making this point for ages now. we take the piss out of the united fringe players and some of the first teamers but y god every one of them knows what their job is and gives everything to get it done. and ,as arsene says, everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home. well, we don’t and not by a long chalk.
we rave about our first team, but united have so many strong players they don’t have a first team , and that is an enormous strength. there was an article in independent last week about a full international team of united players that are injured at the moment and they are still in 3 competitions . they don’t moan about it and they don’t pretend they are close to the 99 team but they still get on with it. some of this is the players that ferguson identifies and of course ferguson himself. the personality of the manager – any boss – rubs off on the people that work for him. so we have first teamers an even reserves who makes excuses rather than get on with it. bendtner, walcott denilson etc would not last 10 minutes at old trafford. and that really annoys me because this is not about money as so many people think, its about ATTITUDE. and we don’t have it. end of
@Lone Star Gunner: it pains me to say so as your blog is an excellent one but at this point you’re mixing things up.
At this point I thing everyone and even Arsene understands Nasri should play centrally.
As for buying a CB in February, this is the BD meme that’s pushed forward by the ones who think video games are the real thing. Which CB do you think was available we should have bought in the winter transfer window and would have been so much better than what we have while agreeing to be 4th choice?
I won’t even bother to comment about the other nonsensical bits. Your blog is a good one and you’re entitled to an epidermic reaction. Still…
@i don’t know anymore: at this point last year we were still in all competitions (albeit further away from the league) and I don’t remember you or any journo coming up and tell us we had a full international team on the sideline.
Yesterdays game was a perfect illustration of Arsenes Arsenal 2011,
Possesion with no real purpose check – Until finally switching to 442
The Brazillian Traffic cone having a shocker check – How bad does he have to play before Wenger finally realises he’s just not good enough,
Goalkepper in fuck up shocker – check
Centrehalf involved in fuck up shocker – check
No width or pace – check
Mental Strength mentioned – check
Away fans being Fucking Fantastic Again – check
If this all ends how many think a serious shake up of the club must commence.
Well done N7, nice bit of scribing. Reflected my thoughts entirely.
The one other point that has been mentioned little is Wenger’s tactics. Barca I understand, Birmingham bemused me and Utd was all wrong. If there is one major flaw in AW’s armoury then it is tactical nous. I think he gets gripped by fear of the big occasion and it is reflected through the team and the style of play.
Don’t get me wrong, I think AW is a genius, he has kept us competing at the top level on a shoe string (and this should never be forgotten), but he is so one-dimensional in his tactics any manager worth his salt can find a way around it.
Almunia wouldn’t have been playing if either of our top three GKs had been fit. What choice does he have? Jens? Yes the romantic in me says play him next match, but he has played less than Al and who knows what level of concentration he has. Squillaci has been a disappointment, but he would have only been a back up for Carling/FA cup matches if our top two defenders were fit. Would you play Miguel instead? Which CB was available in January? We shouldn’t believe the newspapers.
For me, the most disappointing thing is how little motivated some of our players are. Denilson, Rosicky and Bendtner I expect to leave in the summer, but they are in the shop window for goodness sake.
I share everybody’s disappointment. My glass is still half full. I still belief we may stutter, but Utd will only win 5 of their remaining matches. the rest is up to us!
Morning all,
I have yet to watch the game but what I was disappointed by was wenher’s starting team. I would have preferred more attacking intent avaunt west broom with chamach upfront and rvp in the hole. Chamakh is a better target man than rvp and better at holding the ball up and playing in team mates.
Fair enough again ‘holic. Shame the plastic cunts on Le Grove don’t take a step back before spewing out the same old shite after a defeat. Look forward to another week of the poor darlings moaning about the cost of a club level seat and the premium catering that goes with it. Spoiled cunts. Another week of hitting the same easy targets. They really should fuck off thinking they speak for proper Gooners.
You’re bang on about getting behind this lot for the rest of the season, then chopping a few out. Stay with it mate.
Sorry should have added- To those that think booing of players or moans and groans is an Emirates thing think again I heard Arsenal players get all sorts of stick at Highbury- I do fear the Atmosphere in the remaining home games becoming posinious if things go wrong, Its not right but I can understand the reasons behind it, If you treat the fanbase with indifference be prepared for when they bite back,
Tea anyone?
Matt?
People are lumping in Walcott with Denilson and Bendtner now? Eh?
Thoughtless stuff, Charlie. There’s a lot of it about this morning.
I have to be honest. I am disappointed. Don’t get me wrong here. I am not trying to extinguish that last glimmer of hope all of us have. I am just disappointed at the fact that the boys CAN do much better. All of our players deserve more than a draw against West Brom. They deserve to be at the top of the world.
Is it the players? Is it the managment? Is it Wenger?! Non of them are in fault here. The players lack belief. They the belief that they can win anything including the Champions League. This also applies to us, the supporters.
We will always stand behind them, in sickness and in health, we are Arsenal.
Another blunder, another 2 points dropped. Anything else surprising?
The flesh is becoming numb and no longer capable of feeling pain.
The only positive to come out from the game was AW’s tactical switch (though i suspect it was more out of a necessity with the players he has on pitch than a real stroke of tactical application). We finally had a 2nd dimension to the game! Marvellous!
Had to agree with many of fellow holics that our ‘system’ is wrong. What benefit does it has to have an ‘automatic-1st-eleven’? It pushes the eleven into a comfort zone, a sense of ‘security’ that they will be selected as long as they are available (not necessarily fit). It tells the rest of the players that they are only going to be the reserves for this season.
From where I come from, everything has to be based on meritocracy. You earn and fight for what you want. Nobody should be spoon-fed. If you are not up to speed, you are on the next bus out. However, obviously, this is definitely not the system AW believes in. Otherwise we would have seen the last of many in our squad. I believe it is time for some of the many talented, hungry youth to be given an opportunity. What has we got to lose? At least we know they will have the drive and passion to track back. It will put the entire 1st team on their toes.
Sadly, I am the half-empty glass now. I will not be surprised to see more screw ups and only believe that should we win the league, it is definitely going to be a generous gift from The Manure.
Jackster, I did think of the ‘holicpound too at 2-2, I really thought it could happen!
Me too, Ollie. I was getting pretty excited 🙁
What is it about teams with horizontal stripes?
god help us when QPR & Reading come up!!
I’ve almost got to the point where I don’t want us to win the league this year, as we really need Wenger to realise that what we have just behind the first eleven is way short of what’s needed to win the title (or anything). Another opportunity wasted seeing as how several of the top teams have shown such inconsistency this season. If by some small miracle this team does win the title it will surely go down as the worst ever to do so.
Almunia started the season as Wengers number one, despite his howlers last season, and the reluctance to buy a top quality keeper over the last few years has cost at least 2 titles. Inexcusable, especially as Given & Schwarzer were within reach.
Expecting the hapless Spaniard to do a job over the last 10 critical games was at best hopeful, however his latest howler surely surpassed all that had gone before; i’ve never actually seen a keeper push his own defender over as they were attempting to tackle an opponent!
I believe you can trace this teams recent failings back to the newcastle game where the 4 goal lead was surrendered.
Bringing in Reina, Cahill, and dare I suggest Benzema, would soften the blow when Cesc goes in the summer; sell Bendtner to the barcodes, Diaby to Juventus (tell them he’s the new Vieira, we’ve believed it for long enough), Denilson, Rosicky & Almunia to anyone daft enough to buy them. Might be a long wait for the latter after yesterday.
Ramsay & Wilshere will be streets ahead of anything else in the premiership in the next few few years, we just need ability, confidence & belief in the positions around them to get this team finally winning the honours they are so close to.
Matt ” sell Bendtner to the barcodes, Diaby to Juventus (tell them he’s the new Vieira, we’ve believed it for long enough), Denilson, Rosicky & Almunia”
no way , nobody want the denilson , rosicky almunia bendtner, should try by garage sale
I have a hangover that I don’t want to go away … every time I have a lucid moment, the image of Almunia rushing out of his penalty area returns.
Denilson, if my memory hasn’t completely failed me started the season well coming on as a ‘closer’, coming on in the second half when we were winning to ensure a result. When he starts, he just cannot move the ball around accurately or quickly enough. It gets even worse when he is paired with Diaby.
If we do blow the League, we can enter another competition ‘The Marginal Cost League’. This competition calculates each EPL teams’ revenue from ticket sales, sponsorship, advertising, transfer fees and salaries and calculates the amount each team has to spend to earn a point above the total needed to avoid relegation. Arsenal will be up against Blackpool for the title. I think the Arsenal board and Wenger are already playing this game but not telling us. It’ll do as a title until the post-season cull of underperforming squad players and a new wave of promising youngsters replaces them.
Lots of good and varied opinions.
Before the game, I said that we wouldnt be able to defend and should start 4-4-2. Unfortunately AW didnt take my advice until half time. Next game is Blackburn who are in melt down, lets start 4-4-2.
Another thing he got wrong was, when the teams line ups were announced, it was pretty obvious that Almunia was their most dangerous player, surely we could have got Cliche to mark him out of the game.
Denilson looks broken to me, a bit like Arshavin a few months ago, but without the talent. Time to call on his season.
RVP should spend the international break practicing heading. I think he failed to get three headers on target. And he blasted a free kick ten yards over the bar – not his best game ever.
5 points dropped against WBA.
5 points dropped against Newcastle.
4 points dropped against Sunderland.
Thats the stuff of which champions are not made.
Denilson isnt the only one broken. ):
Right, who put all that alcohol in my beers last night? I am hungover.
Positives:
* we came back from 2-0 down and got one point, so we are still nine points clear of fifth place. I also like how Arsene, for once, threw caution to the wind and made a sub as early as half-time and then threw on every attacking player he could.
Negatives:
* Once again we give away incredibly stupid goals. I have to say I felt genuinely sorry for Almunia after his massive cock-up on the second one, he must be absolutely desperate to show that he is not as bad as people think and then he does that.
* Oh, I can’t be bothered. We really, really need Song and Cesc back for the run-in. With a fit Cesc in the team today we would have slaughtered them.
Toby@5: no worries mate, there’ll be other opportunities. We managed to down a rather too large number of pints anyway 🙂 A friend from London was over for the weekend so we stayed around drinking until they closed the place.
Tim Merrick@6: I agree. We played 4-4-2 at home v Everton and turned the game around, we played 4-4-2(ish) yesterday and got two goals back. We should play that more often.
Rawsy@29: securing fourth is not a guarantee yet, but remember that Tottenham will have to win three more than we do, if we win four of our last nine games they have to win seven of their nine and most likely also draw one more since we have a massive advantage in goal difference. And they still have to play City, Liverpool and Chelsea away and us at home and they also have two games v Real that will take it’s toll on them. It will take a massive failure on our part (like losing five or perhaps even six of our last nine games) to finish lower than fourth.
Matt@47: agree about Squillaci. He had a good game, none of the goals were down to the central defenders.
Agree with the praise for the away support. All game save for just around their goals, all you could hear on the tv was the Arsenal fans. Great job all of you who were there.
Disappointed.
Bloodied but not yet beaten.
The train of joy is resting for the next two weeks after which it will take all comers up the mountain, and deliver us to the promised land.
The only possible derailment will be if we don’t get our best players back and fit for the run in.
PS – totally agree with Stone Roses above – we need to start playing with the intent to outscore the opposition and accept we are not going to keep them out with the players we have left standing at the back. 4 4 2 from here on in.
Denilson was even worst than Almunia yesterday in my opinion.
Playing with 10 lads without him would have improved our game.
I bet he must be grinning right now that the furry of the fans and staff will be diverted on Squillaci and Almunia and that he is still collecting his cheques and starting in one of the best clubs in the world while barely having the talent to play in Ligue 2.
In the field of business I would love to know the importance of a CEO who has delivered consistent results. I am attributing this comment with respect to Arsene Wenger. He has been delivering the CL qualifcation consistently for the past decade and more. If Wenger was the CEO of a PLC would the shareholders have persisted with Wenger in this case or would they be dissatisfied that results have been consistent but not shown improvement at an increasing rate.
Moving on the issue of captaincy has been given short shrift by Wenger. He has made a few decisions which have cost him and the club dearly. Making Gallas the captain instead of Gilberto, handing the captaincy to Henry and Cesc to make them stay and even making Rosicky and Almunia captain at times have severly undermined the leadership aspect at the club. A captain should should induce fear in team if found to be lacking in effort but Almunia only induces the fear of howlers. We as fans can criticise Denilson and Almunia but it is not their fault that they are being picked.
I have admired Wenger and still do so and I am desperate for him to succeed. He has been stubbornly sticking to his policy and I want him to instill in his team the same stubborness in fighting for results. Wenger does seem to want his team to be efficient at all times (quality he may have absorbed in Japan) but seems to ignore mental toughness of his team. A signing off the pitch could be the right solution say a Martin Keown who could boost the mental toughness of the squad and defence by leaps and bounds. It would cost a fraction of any new signing.
Arsenal have adopted the approach of frugality with respect to transfers. The advantage of this approach is the club would be cash rich at times of distress in the football transfer in the market. But that day never seems to come as new billionaires seem arrive at regular intervals to prolong this insanity. Wenger as a student of economics would do well to remember
‘Markets are irrational far longer than we are solvent’.
@Lone Star gooner.
I actually expected us to win yesterday.
I did’nt deceive myself that it would be an easy thing but I did expect all three points. Go figger’
I watched the game again on the official website volume off.
some of you are right, Squidiki was not to fault this time.
However I’m still convinced that he,Denilson and almunia on the same pitch in Arsenal kits=”Axis of Feeble”
Come on Dudes, we are The Arsenal this cannot be the best we can come up with. To further downgrade my expectations for the team would make me as useless as a supporter as All Moonia is as a keeper.
Won’t go there yet,maybe this summer after the rubble settles but for the next 9 games I expect more.
Will 2 weeks be enough for old man Lehmann to get sharp?
I bet he thinks so. What are the risk? Could he be worse than All Moonia? As always more questions with this lot than answers.
Has anyone noticed no Song=No wins?
@drona
I like your ides of an off field signing. Martin Keown was a great player precisely because of his mental toughness and intensity. These qualities however, have not served him well in his coaching capacities. I think players today see him as way over the top and he in turn views them as lazy,overpaid spoiled if talented children.Probably both viewpoints have some merit. But, What do you think of either Lee Dixon or Nigel Winterburn. Both guys are true Arsenal Hard asses but have a sense of the ridiculous and may communicate better with this latest generation of….
players?
Just under a quarter of the season left with 27 points to play for and in a good position to win the league.
Cesc, Song and Wally should be back for the run-in and we are in control of our own destiny.
United, Chelsea and Citeh have some huge games outside of the league coming up. The Arse just have the league to worry themselves over.
The big question though is is do we have the bollocks to to get over the line? That would apply to AW, the players and also us supporters. I think that most of the supporters have it, but unfortunately, we can’t directly influence what happens on the pitch.
9 more Cup Finals, CoYRRR’s.
A Sunday afternoon Guinness would be most pleasant.
@matt 69
i suspect we don’t have 22 internationals so i doubt that we were missing a team of them. i am willing to be proved wrong on this – most players that play for big clubs get capped at least by lesser national teams and especially england. even if you were right it sort of proves my point – we are much better off than united are for injuries now so why are we whinging when they are getting on with it. as you say we were only in the league nominally while united are 5 points clear. and that my friend is significantly down to mentality
Have this crazy idea positional-succession plan.
The outstanding defence (heritage we have) we had – Seaman, Dixon, Adam, Bould/Keown and Winterburn, should be properly ‘handed over’ to the next player in line. e.g. Dixon coaching Sagna, etc.
What made that senior group stand out besides their individual abilities was their understanding of all other players beside them. They know exactly what to expect in each scenarios, timing for the offside plays, when the GK should come out, letting go, covering play, setpieces, etc.
Perhaps AW should do a ‘workshop-style’ session, with the past legends sharing their thoughts and knowledge (how do they communicate, offside traps, etc). Then drill the players till its 2nd nature to them.
It could have came from the ‘corporate world’ practice but why shouldn’t it work?
We could have a League Cup to shout for if we had done it earlier and definitely wouldn’t have let in the 2nd goal yesterday!
@ Matt
Christopher Samba was ready,able and wanting to come to No.London. Obviously water over the falls at this point but who doubts that we could have used him to better effect than say…
( )*fill in the blank with the under performing defender of your choice (Seb Squidiki) lost boy& last but not least member of Axis of Feeble.
Gets my vote*
Question for you Holic. You say reserve the venom till end of the season.. Whats the point? .. by then it’ll all be how we can challenge for next season and how the experience of this season have helped mature this team.
How we deserve credit for being second in the league…
We’ve heard those soundbites from Wenger before. Still think Arsene is the man for the job.. But he can get incredibly tiresome at the best of times.
…And these are not.
When we win I just sort of revel in it, but when we fuck it up, I go all analytical. 9 games, to go, me and zico agree, the only chance we got is 4-4-2.
Now, Chamkh has been much maligned, unfairly I think. He came into the EPL and played almost every game thru to the end of November when RVP came back. He gave an interview at that time saying his body just gets battered, kicked and scratched every game and it was all he could do just to get ready for the next game. I think he gave it all. Wenger even said at the time that it would probably be the end of March before he was back to full fitness. He looked back to form yesterday, I just wish he started.
But, I think the whole season rests on Walcott. All the time he is out, Nasri is only 70% effective on the right. We got a fit Chamakh, Arshavin is back from his journey into the wilderness, Walcott on the right, and Nasri in front of Song/Wilshire. (I think Wilshire could do with a rest anyway, he has played a hell of a lot of games for a 19 year old).
So, no Fabregas? Well, he has already booked seat number A1 on the May 22nd 9pm flight Gatwick to Barcelona and PHW is working out how to split the £45 million between the Directors.
And if I am setting myself up to be shot down 🙂 , I didnt think Squilacci played badly yesterday. Lets face it, any of us would panic if a frothing at the mouth mad Spaniard came charging towards us shouting ” Banzai!! Leave it! I got it, I got it! ” Trouble is, he didnt got it.
Oh well, I give my thanks for the invention of alcohol.
Holic ’til the end.
Holic,
When exactly are your drinkers going to go into ‘fuck, we are the Arsenal, we can do this’ mode?
What you call balance from your customers, I call shitty support. Fix this Holic, you and other top Arsenal blogs have a responsibility to lead the charge from on here.
I know you know the players will notice it.
@Slim
You make a great point but I’m afraid it will never work that way mate. People respond to adversity in keeping with their own diverse natures. Some will dig in, some will whine and some will call it quits.
I’m convinced the away supporters ceaseless banter,chanting and singing earned us our point yesterday every bit as much as the two late goals.
But On the gooner ship of state (like in every other realm of life) some will grab oars and pull hard,some will stick up a digit hoping for wind and others will lay on the gunwales and groan.
Oh, the humanity!
Quick word for anybody who has emailed me this weekend. Those lovely people at Virgin Media are changing things around and I cannot get access to my mails. Good of them not to mention the fact beforehand, eh?
Please accept my apologies if you are waiting for an answer that may not be forthcoming for a while.
How about this for a battle cry: ‘We are still competing to be the most mediocre team in living memory (since the Everton team that won in 86-7) to win the league title. A hollow victory but better than being the worst team to finish second!!’
As a starting formation, is it possible to play 4-4-2 with Arshavin playing left midfield??? I predict Zico and Stone Roses soon may receive posts by a ‘Clichy22’ disagreeing vehemently.
J,
Point taken about Arshavin. Maybe we play 4 – 3 1/2 – 2 1/2.
My point about 4-4-2 (or really 4-1-3-2) is that the situation at the back is so dire, we have to assume before every game that we are gonna leak goals, and so have to go the offensive from the start. Not ideal but we have to compensate.
It’s a bit like my cat, his front right paw doesn’t work so he compensates by placing his left paw in the middle. Its not ideal, but it compensates. (All donations to Stone Roses Disabled Cats Charity). 🙂
What did Squillaci do wrong for the 2nd goal?
@Mug … I think the claim is that Squillaci should not have waited for the ball to bounce and should have been more assertive.
@Stone Roses … if you want to go for broke from the start, then play 4-2-4. It will guarantee goals!! AW I think actually plays this formation rather than 4-4-2 when he has to chase a game.
Jez, we are never going to turn Arshavin into an up and down midfielder like, say, Milner who works hard but couldn’t score in a barrel of fannies. So best just make the most of what he offers the team, which is a potent threat going forward.
We are so error prone at the back best way we can have any chance of getting 3 points against any opposition is to try and outscore them. Playing 1 up front is not going to do it.
For the record, I don’t think Squillaci did anything wrong yesterday and his block toward the end contributed massively to the point that we did get.
@zicoinexile … I agree, but Clichy needs some form of protection. I’m sure when we played Manure at Old Trafford in the league, he had Nani running at him with Fletcher running round him on the overlap and no Arsenal midfielder in sight.
How about this for a brave front 4 … Nasri, Chamakh, Van Persie with Arshavin behind the front 3. The 2 wide forwards can cut in from wide positions to get shots in or one-twos around the 18 yard line; Arshavin can run from deep to commit the opposition defensive lines and Clichy and Sagna can provide the traditional floated crosses for Chamakh.
If only we had two shielding deep midfielders like Gilberto and Flamini!!
@Matt & Slim,
Don’t go slating folks for having a different point of view. Although I have only been following the Arsenal since ’05, as a (recovering)Dallas Cowboys supporter (since 1977) I know well what it means to support a club through the ups and downs and have the proper “we can do this” mentaility. I am fully prepared to go through ten years in the desert with the Arsenal as well (from 1978 to 1993 the Cowboys didn’t win a thing – and the NFL doesn’t have multiple cup competitions either).
What I’m not prepared to do is be silently positive when I look upon an immensely talented team that can’t be bothered to give 95% on the pitch. I won’t silently second those supporters who play the “wait ’till we get our choice eleven back” game. I have in the past, and would totally be from here on out, been completely satisfied with a team that gives maximum effort and comes up short – whether it’s by the errant call, the errant bounce, or the errant clear-your-own-centerback-out-of-the-way.
It’s the effort that is lacking in this squad, and it’s been lacking for a few seasons. Honestly, think back, how many times have we used the phrase “slow first half” with this lot? Instead of jumping on middle to bottom league squads with a blitzkrieg of energy and shots (with marginally better finishing) we gas along, prod here and there, and then kick it up a notch after the opposing squad capitalized on their first shot on goal. I’m not pointing out anything we don’t already know.
I hope I am wrong. I really do hope we win our final nine matches and win this league. I give a rat’s ass if we would have the poorest record in doing so. Last i checked, it’s about who has the most points at the end. I’ll be right there, either in front of the TV or in the bar, urging the boys on, but in my heart of hearts I don’t expect anything out of this squad. Just like I expect nothing out of the Cowboys…perhaps that is the way it should be.
I agree to those who say Squid wasn’t at fault at yesterday’s game. He might miss the header to clear first chance but he got the position covered then and he’s not facing Messi or Villa either.
Anyway, we’re stuck with the present back four for the remaining games. So don’t see how to change there but like some of you who suggested the formation of 442 or variations of it. I say it’s the way to go, even with Fab and Song Back from injury. Stick Bendtner and Chamakh at front. Mid four of RVP Arshavin Nasri Fab Whilshere and Song, depending who is available. Move the back four to just before the half way line , pressure and compress the midfield. Of course, if off side trap doesn’t work to protect our space behind, everyone has to make a run for for it, including the opponents. So the defence is actually a matter of who has the quickest feet and positional sense. Actually I would venture to play the back four with a classic sweeper behind the other three, provided we’ve the personnel.
Positives ? Well, it’s good to have this blog to share some views with other true Gooners.
Good stuff as usual from ‘Holic.
Interesting stuff as usual from BtM.
Good points, well repeated, from Steve T.
And that is not a dig Steve T in any way, shape or form.
Repetition is, indeed, the name of the present game for me.
I am a veteran of the 1971 Double, mentioned in the main blog, and have followed the team ever since, through many fairly dire and trophyless seasons.
I am not an impatient child spoilt by the early Wenger years of almost constant success.
I am, though, tired.
Tired of watching seasons full of promise disintegrate, year after year, as March arrives.
Tired of watching our defence disintegrate, almost constantly, whenever they have more than one attacker to deal with.
Things had started to look better of late, but then, true to our usual luck, we lost our strongest centre-back and our best goalkeeper in a week.
Tired of seeing our goalkeepers looking forlorn and confused after another calamitous decision has tossed away another game we should have won.
Tired of hearing myself and every other Arsenal fan I know complaining about the inadequacy of some of our squad – we all know exactly who they are, both in terms of positions and actual personnel.
Tired of having to resign myself, towards the end of March, to the fact that we will win nothing again. But wait. We can at least look forward to the summer, when all the deficiencies will be addressed so that we will all return, next season, with just as much optimism as ever.
Last spring we were pretty much promised as much by Arsene Wenger – he was even going to have all said deficiencies dealt with before the World Cup.
As we now apparantly look forward to more ticket price increases – details please, anyone? – can we expect any different this summer ?
Yes, I know we can still win the League, somehow, but that should not mask the obvious shortcomings of this squad.
Wenger was fortunate enough to inherit probably the best defence in English club history when he arrived at the club. As that unit gradually retired, things changed. However, replacements were well coached, to the point that in 2005-6 Martin Keown coached Eboue, Toure, Senderos and Flamini to a Champions League defensive record.
He, and they, have now gone.
I have always been a huge Wenger fan, and doubt that any other man in football could have achieved what he has done for us.
But he has to now get help in sorting out a defence that makes repeated, shocking mistakes.
What I am most tired of is the confusion in communication that we get from the board and the manager.
The board claim that money is not a problem – it has always been there if the manager wanted it. This, of course, raises expectations.
We know that is not true. For probably seven years the manager had next to nothing to spend, unless he raised it himself from player sales.
The manager still tells us that he can really only afford to keep what he has got, and that is certainly what he seems to do.
If this is true, then we need a concerted statement to that effect.
We will not then hope for this or that other signing, and will HAVE to be patient with those we have.
If, however, the manager has options, it is high time he exercised them.
It is a strange feeling, with 9 games to go and a possible Title in the offing. But this team has tired me out.
Hopefully, the Interlull will do me good.
By the way, the travelling support was absolutely brilliant again yesterday.
Hi fellow gooners
Just want to say the league race not over yet but I think in the pre season we must look at getting a new medical team cause the amount of injuries we get every season is getting out of hand at the moment we have about 7 to 6 of our regular first team players injured.Honestly we having a good season we jst don’t have luck in some games e.g barcelona game and the united game we were unfortunate to not convert the chances.
@Trev,
You are true vet and I defer to your experience and sagacity.Though I know of the 71 double now I was an ignorant (not innocent) grade schooler at the time.
Here’s my question: Knowing how stubborn (single-minded,focused,pig-headed,blind) Wenger is will he;
A) Go to a 4-4-2 and drop Denilson
B) Continue with the same formation and players
C) Other.
looking for another longer time frame perspective,
thanks
PS. this break will do us all some good agreed there.
Still hangin’ in there, barely, out here in the hiinterland of Arsenaldom, kind of similar to the state of our title chances. No sign of glorious heroics yet, but Arshavin deserves recognition for providing the glimmer of hope we absolutely needed. 24 hours is my minimum for digesting these disappointing results so I haven’t posted earlier, but I appreciate all your earlier posts, and especially those who refuse to give up the ghost. There’s no reason we can’t put in a barnburner of a performance next time, so come on Arsenal!
The Champions league semi-final could be absolutely critical. Assume Manure get through, they have:
Aoril 23 Home Everton
April 26 Away Inter Milan (probably)
May 1 Away Arsenal
May 4 Home Inter Milan
May 7 Home Chelsea
We have:
April 24 Away Bolton
May 1 Home Manure
May 7 Away Stoke.
Let us pray they get through, 5 games in 14 days versus 3 games in 14 days.
@leftcoastgooner –
I fear he will only drop Denilson once the latter has finally burned the photographs – well, you think he must have something on AW.
In honesty I have no idea what he will do. If he won’t play Nasri in the centre even when Fabregas is not there, who can possibly guess.
In all honesty he can’t change much ‘cos everyone else is injured.
In the longer term, the weaknesses have to be addressed or we will lose some fantastic players – like van Persie (ok, he owes us a couple), Nasri and Wilshere.
Trev,
Tired is a good adjective and one that resonates with me too.
I actually wouldn’t mind loosing so much – if only the team gave a proper account of themselves. But we just don’t do our talent enough justice and alot of this, for me, is down to attitude. UTD have lessor players from a technical perspective, but they work their bollocks off, week in, week out. They just seem more hungry for it than we are. I wouldn’t mind loosing so much – if we at least pushed UTD to go and win the league and forced them to win their remaining games. And I’m no negative nelly – but at this stage, having watched Chelsea today, I’m not so sure mate if we’ll even finish second!
Chelsea weren’t even that impressive today. I still think at worst we’ll be second.
Trev, 8.31, feeling your pain. Don’t agree with everything there but that is a great post. That’s what I mean by debating the issues instead of chucking gameboys out of the pram.
Cheers fella.
Yes, tired is a very good word both to describe my feelings about how Arsenal have been playing the last few times out, as well as how the players have looked while they were playing the game, certainly in the first half against West Brom on the stream I had. At first I wasn’t sure if it was the delay in my reception or the lack of energy displayed by the Arsenal players, but I came to conclude the latter. I have a feeling that one of the returning injured players, or perhaps the mad German himself, will have to be the source of the spark that gets us moving up to speed again.
Thought I would refrain from the bar but like every addict you just have to return.
Some very interesting points raised by many.
Matt@68. Re centre backs. How about one from Gallas, Sol or Senderos? Alternatively address the problem before the world cup? Or from January how about beating the chavs to David Luis? Or pay the money for Cahill? Let’s not forget that AW told us that he would have brought someone in had it not been for the fact that Tommy V was just about to return? Now someone deserves shooting for that remark. However my point is this. If AW had actually considered bringing someone in then he must have already had names in mind????????
Chippy@70. Add leaders to your check list and I agree totally.
Stone Roses@83. Again, spot on. I am so frustrated at the points we have just gifted teams and discarded with ease. The 14 points you refer to emphasise it superbly. Not one of those is excusable. Get those games right and we are 9 clear with a game in hand and 9 to play. The bookies would be paying out already.
Trev@111. Spot on. Agree with almost all of that. Particularly when you mention the comments coming out of the club. We either have cash to spend or we don’t. Figures of £50 million plus have been mentioned. I have no idea how accurate they are. However considering recent sales, the “wonderful” figures presented by the board and the fact that we are apparently the 5th wealthiest club in the world I would consider those amounts to be more than realistic. As I have said before, are we as a club the best we can be? The frustrating thing for me is that I really do not think we are that far away.
Since yesterday I have watched the match again on Sky, MOTD and seen the goals several times. All that and I fail to see where people say that Squillaci had a good game. It may have been good by his standards, but good???? The back four at times looked clueless. The positional play at times was simply schoolboy stuff. The first goal was a joke from start to finish. The way the corner was conceded was sloppy in the extreme. The fact that we again conceded from a set piece will surprise no one sadly. As for the second?????? I still struggle to work out what Almunia was doing. After the Wigan game in December AW said that there were no leaders at the back and no one taking responsibility. This was after we had again thrown away a lead at relegation threatened opposition. It does not appear that this problem has been addressed.
I hate coming here with negatives but I find the whole situation so frustrating. The fact is that we are still second and can still win the league. Fuck knows how but we can. In my opinion this is the weakest Premier League for years and it is there for the taking. Take the points that Stones Roses mentions and we are almost on the beach giving it large. Instead, I am sat here struggling not to soil my undercrackers at the thought of Almunia taking the field with Laurel and Hardy in front of him for the remaining 9 games. It really could be a case of the tactics being simply that we have to score loads to have a chance of winning.
But hey, what the heck do I know????????????????? I sincerely hope that come May that I could not have been more wrong.
Up the Gunners.
This team just frustrates the shit out of me.
It’s so obvious that we’ll stay within touching distance of the title and then get an injury and give it up.
Funnily enough, this is starting to look like last season where we were 3 points off Chelsea with 5 games to go after the Wolves game at home (NB52 – 95th minute).
I just hope it won’t be the same outcome…
@all the stalwart holics,
It was a hard weekend thanks, for helping me get through it.
I don’t know how but it seems like three seasons and not 3 weeks ago to the day that Kos and the big polish kid crossed it up.
Not quite a free-fall but something very like one.
They say even a blind squirrel finds the odd acorn,we’ll see.
Time out for me gang. I’ll be back in a fortnight rested and ready.
Till then Cheers all and go you gunners!
Hello holics,
It took quite a while to go through all the drinks.
I couldn’t watch the game because they didn’t show it on the tele because of the cricket world cup here. Also, my computer is banjaxed- so couldn’t stream.
I watched the full highlights though.
First of all, this bar is wonderful. All views are expressed in a sane, respectful way.
Some quick points-
*Re: Wenger not addressing defensive issues in the summer – He bought two center halves, didn’t he? One of them, a very good defender.
*Re:Wenger should have spent on attacking midfielders/strikers- In my opinion, still, we have a very potent attack. Enough to win the league
*Re:Wenger should have bought a goalkeeper- May be, but that problem was solved internally. Pity two keepers got injured the way they did
Having said that, if Arsene knew that TV5 was not going to come back this season then he should have bought cover. He gambled. The results of that gamble, will be known come may.
I blame the whole debacle of past few weeks on three factors-
1)Luck
2)Mental strength/leaders
3)Denilson 😉
I know they say, “you make your own luck” but lady luck has really fucked us in the past seasons and this.
But, we are still in it. And as long as we are, I won’t lose hope. I can’t.
Come on Arsenal!
Anyone still wondering why a great GK & competent defenders make a difference?
Steve T: “Figures of £50 million plus have been mentioned … and the fact that we are apparently the 5th wealthiest club in the world I would consider those amounts to be more than realistic.”
I’m not so sure. The profits we have made over the past few years have mainly come from selling players and selling Highbury Square apartments (i.e. one-off income). The footballing side (i.e. contiuous income) has only contributed a little bit, and that bit is the one paying the wages. Any club in the Premier League can pay the transfer fee for more or less any player in the world, the trick is not to go bankrupt from paying the wages. You mentioned David Luiz, but he cost £25m in transfer fees alone and while he has contributed with a few goals he has also given away a completely stupid stoppage-time penalty (which Cech saved) at 0-0 v Fulham and he was extremely lucky not to get sent off v ManU with the game tied at 1-1. I am not particularly impressed with him, to be honest.
“Instead, I am sat here struggling not to soil my undercrackers at the thought of Almunia taking the field with Laurel and Hardy in front of him for the remaining 9 games”
Here’s a bit of glass-half-full for you: If the four to six weeks prognosis on Szczesny is correct, he might actually be back for the next game. We well most likely also have Cesc, Walcott and Song back by then and having Song there will help shore up the defense as well. Hope that helped cheer you up a bit 🙂
Don’t get me wrong, I am also tired of seeing us making the same mistakes over and over again. But I am not as convinced as many others seem to be that the lack of transfer activity is down to Arsene being ignorant, stubborn or anything like that. I am simply not convinced that there really is any significant money for him to use at this point.
@ Lars
“I am simply not convinced that there really is significant money for him to use at this point”.
So why does he always say when asked that there is money available?
Holic / Steve T:
Interesting point of note on a different subject today:
Remember when Wenger shipped alot of criticism when he asked for an apology from UEFA over the RVP sending off fiasco against Barca?
Well as a Rugby man as well, I thought it was most impressive to see the International Rugby Board officially apologise to the Irish team for the illegal lineout that lead to a Welsh Try in cardiff which ended up being decisive in that game.
UEFA/FIFA/FA could learn alot from the way Rugby is officiated and administered and how technology can be used in an intelligible way. Is it really too much to expect that a multi billion pound/euro industry is properly refereed and administered? I think clubs/fans/blogs should take a hard stance on this – because the amount of incredibly poor decisions that take place week in, week out is just unacceptable.
Holic,
When I say that – I am in no way implying that you don’t take enough umbrage with the standard of refereeing – but y’know where I come from…….
zico: that doesn’t actually have to contradict what I am saying. I think there is some money available, but how much? And how much can we afford in wages?
i cant believe those that are now holding senderos up a sa beacon. ffs – that numpty ? we couldn’t wait to get shot of him
sometimes i despair. so many false solutions that don’t address the real problem. we clutch at things that might be straws but aren’t even that on close examination. Steve T – if we had those 14 points we would be 9 points clear ? and united wouldn’t have done anything different in this parallel universe ? or chelsea ? chelsea would be out of sight now without their mid season wobble or united would be without the points they have dropped /thrown away
and anyone who doesn’t think luiz would enhance this team is almost certainly inhaling an illegal substance.
i like the banter but until we realise the fault is none of these fripperies we will not get anywhere. that goes for the management team and it goes for the supporters. most of our our players are simply not good enough (if we had our first eleven blah blah) . that is not their fault – they are what they are. it is arsene that tolerates them. they also don’t try hard enough – that IS their fault.
i posted a fantasy eleven from united and arsenal after the game at OT to demonstrate this and had 3 arsenal players. and i am a gooner. my brother in law would only have had one – cesc. and even then only if he cared. no one commented on this selection – because you agree or don’t want to face facts ?
Lars, it doesn’t contradict what you are saying, true, but rightly or wrongly, AW gives the impression that we have “significant” money to spend, it’s just he cannot find the right player.
He makes a rod for his own back with the Championship Managers in our fanbase by not being honest and simply saying “we are not Chelsea/Man City”. He has gone on record on a regular basis saying money is not the issue.
In the longer term, IF we don’t have money, then we either need to get more out of those players that we are paying handsomely (that can start right now for me!) and/or come the summer we need to generate some money by trying to move a few of them on.
In any event, I still think we can do it – it will take a step change in attitude and approach from some, but until we are mathematically out of it, I’m staying on the happy train.
Afternoon ‘Holic & ‘Holics,
Have caught up with most of the drinks after another weekend of very mixed Arsenal emotions.
In general, I have to say that the members of this bar should take a bow for such a well reasoned and well argued set of comments. For the most part, sanity prevailed and I note that the medicine cabinet have been unused over the entire period, great stuff 😉
The doldrums of the interlull have come at a really good time for us. A chance for the injured to rest and return and for the famed mental strength to be be infused by the management, especilally in the direction of Messrs Almunia and Denilson. The Championship is still in our hands. The jury’s still very much out on whether or not those hands are both willing and able to deliver the title to the home of football. Nevertheless I will be supporting them regardless and will save the painful dissections for debate over the summer.
A round pleaes barman for all that are present and one for yourself of course.
COYRRRs!
Zico,
I’ll continue to board that train with you and any others here that care to step on.
I also think Lars is right in that we, i.e. the manangement, choose to try and run the club at an operating profit and so how much money is really available for the transfer market is highly debatable. The facts are kept amongst a very small circle of the company’s officers and I don’t have a problem with that.
As you say, having a ‘summer sale’ of the usual suspects would be a good way to generate revenues and reduce the all important wage bill. I would also trust that at least a decent proportion (50%+) of that money saved/earned would be re-invested in a few key signings to help bolster our already excellent first team.
Getting the best and/or more from what we already have though is the first and ‘must do’ logical step – starting yesterday 😉
Nice one TS.
Have a pint – you and Lars both.
Already hating the interlull btw, even if it IS just what we needed.
Cheers Zico, on your tab???
But of course 🙂
In that case make it a Stella and keep me away from The Management.
‘Nobody in England believed we’d be fighting for the top 4.’
I love Arsene, but this is surely delusional! Do we really need to constantly assert our questionable underdog status? Come on, Arsene… we will need more than that to pull this off!
(Evening, all. Coffee please, about to start work.)
Always wise to avoid Management when Stella is involved (“she” has a lot to answer for) 😉
As results improve, the first class compartment of the happy train could get quite crowded. I am therefore taking the precaution of ordering more rolling stock to arrive on the evening of 1st May after we stuff the Indebted.
Was going to ask Glennw to do a bit of freelancing as well 🙂
Zico, Please reserve me a seat on the happy train to avoid overcrowding after improved results come in. Said results could be just around the next bend and in the meantime I want to be sure we have an excellent supply of high-quality drink on board. Cheers!
Zico, is the seat next to you in that compartment taken?
Lars. The problem for me is that the club said we had to move to keep pace financially with the bigger clubs. We pay the highest ticket prices in the land but see little investment. The PR side of the club keep saying that we make all of this money.They Keep holding press conferences to release our figures and keep telling us what great shape we are in. They go on to say that there is money to spend. Then we dont spend it. Now I have no problems with that if it is not needed but clearly it is. Once again I am not talking a major overhaul here but we all know that in the summer we desperately needed a top class keeper and a centre half. We got neither. The fact that we have gifted more goals and points in one season than I can remember tells it’s own story.
The fact that we now see our third choice keeper as our new number one says it all for me. And lets not forget that he got to be number one by default.
I dont know anymore. My Senderos line was kind of tongue in cheek. My point was that we have let centre backs leave who are better than the ones we have. I personally would prefer Gallas as 4th choice given the option.
With regards to the points dropped. I take what you say about other clubs but the fact is I do not care about other clubs or their results. I have never known us consistantly throw away so many points as this season. If we had been beaten by a better team then I have no problem. But we haven’t. For me we have just had far too many “one offs.” These are one offs that in my opinion we could have avoided had we strengthened where we needed it.
As I said, I really do not think we are that far away and I guess that coupled with the fact we are constantly told that we have money to spend frustrates me the most.
@ i dont know anymore,
if you meant me in your comment re Senderos, I was not suggesting him as a solution for a moment, merely as an illustration of what good, targetted coaching can do.
Our defence at present make so many repeated, basic errors, that a little of that might go a long way.
That’s the spirit guys – seats taken already in the names of Catalan Gunner and True Storey but all of the usual suspects have a reserved seat – I have even saved a couple for the about to be converted “realists” 🙂
Hey Zico! Can you sneak me in the luggage if there’s no more seats? May 1st will be our day of reckoning!
(I’ll bring a bottle of Remy Martin if anyone’s interested…)
You don’t want foul language in your blog? And you call yourself an Arsenal blogger…
But that game, and the very presence of Almunia and Denilson in the side, makes me want to spout the collected works of George Carlin. There, I managed to say “I don’t rate Player X and Player Y” without using profanity… Unless, of course, those very names are now considered profane, which is more defensible than a net with Almunia assigned to it! (I would say IN it, but he WASN’T in the net for the all-important goal, was he?)
@ PiK
Make it Bollinger or Krug and the seats yours 😉
So wait, zico, am I too late for the train or do I have a reserved seat? I really hope you look out for me and didn’t leave me out mate:)
Good to see the train of positivity potentially gathering momentum.
I have a feeling that we’ll need to draft in several other trains to keep up with demand for the service should the boys decide to string together a couple of all important wins starting with the two ‘BLs’ from the North-West.
Cheers all!
Snir,
I believe that arm twisting coupled with an offer of vintage alcohol is always a decent guarantee of success but we’ll see how Zico responds 😉
Eh Zic!!! Let me look under my mattress…
I really like this board, measured and honest opinions. For lack of anything else to do, I thought I’d read through ten random posts, 120 – 129. here are some selected quotes.
Pain.
Tired.
Frustrated.
Clueless.
Struggle.
Negatives.
Free-fall.
Debacle.
Stupid.
For me, Steve T came up the best quote of all.
Fuck knows.
🙂
And just to show that I can do the negative thing too:
‘Beware the ides of March’
It’s been wretched month for us Gooners: W1 D2 L2 and the L2s were BIG matches.
Plus all the injuries inc. Cesc, Wojciech and Djourou
And we signed a 41 year old keeper who wears #13!
I thought November was traditionally our bogey month?
Surley April has got to be heaps better? Sorry, I’m veering back to positive again, can’t help it.
TS,
Let me drag you back to negative. The W was Orient.
I’m good at negative before alcohol.
“infamy, infamy, they’ve got it in for me”
SR,
Thanks for that! I had realised but as it was 5-0 I thought it counted as a postive and it enabled us to meet the Mancs in the QFs and…. oh….
Fin,
The matron is at the bar.
Apologies TS, it was the ‘Ides of March’ reference which brought to mind the quote of Kenneth Williams in ‘Carry on Cleo’.
There’s a lot of excellent debate here today (as always), sorry for interrupting.
Cheers.
Fin,
No need to apologise. The humour was great and my post was to acknowledge that we were on the same wavelength.
It’s the interlull, we have to find other topics of conversation 😉
Indeed we do.
If I hadn’t opened the bar here a little too early here this evening, I would have picked up on the matron reference:-)
Perhaps too much ‘post West Brom self medication’ was not a good idea.
Just a half this time.
Barman, Afternoon cuppa to accompany this attempted Minnesota thaw that we have going on. Most of the snow that was on the ground since November has melted in the last week, but now they say it’s supposed to snow 4 more inches tomorrow night. What kind of sick weatherman could conceive of such a thing? For some reason this brings up images of Robbie Savage as a weather forecaster, but surely I digress so barman please make it two lumps to go along with the accumulated lumps of the last few weeks.
Hey Uncle Mike,
There is no ban on foul language. I just won’t have it directed at Arsenal players, staff, or any other ‘holics as terms of abuse.
I think you will find evidence of profanity if you look for it 😉
Snir @ 150 your in.
TS @ 152 – zico can not be bought. Vintage alcohol you say…..
Pires is King may have discovered some currency of the zico realm under his bed apparently.
Turning to football….what’s everyone’s thoughts on Jon Evans tackle at the weekend – looked pretty nasty to me but the guy who is now out for 6 months accepts that there was no malice intended. I suspect that we would not have been so forgiving….
Opinions anyone?
To be honest, I found the two draws in March far worse than the two defeats.
Zico,
I think fans are very unforgiving to a fault. Take that nice young lad Ryan Shawcross, ‘he was going for the ball’, ‘it was 50-50’, ‘no malice was intended’, ‘he is not that kind of player’. See, a total picture of innocence.
Personally I hope Madagascan Hissing Cockroaches slowly devour his balls over a 20 year period.
Heh SR, Shawcross or Evans? Both I presume.
I am hearing a lot of platitudes in the media about Evans challenge but I thought it was nasty – was interested to see if others felt the same.
Zico,
Just like Le Boss, I didn’t see it. I’ll try to find a link somewhere.
SR,
I am concerned that someone as disturbed as Sh*wcr*ss might enjoy cockroach torture. How about insisting that he learns to play football over a 20 year period instead?
Charlie,
Fair point. The Farca match was the worst for me. Followed by the 2-0 down moment at the weekend. Still, we bounced back.
‘nasri,
I sincerely hope Robbie Savage goes to the US to become a weather forecaster. Anything to stop him talking/writing the total shite that he does as a so-called football pundit. To satisfy our anti-abuse code I’ll end by saying that I’m sure he decent sort really and that he’s probably kind to his mum 😉
…he’s a…
… C*nt?
Robbie Savage and Adrian Durham.
What you have to realise is, they are actors, as well as presenters. They are paid to fire us up, and they do a really good job at it.
A person whom I cant fucking stand is that wanker on Top Gear, Jeremy Clarkson. I heard an interview where he said that he personally doesnt believe 50% of what comes out of his mouth, but it pays the bills. I still think he’s a wanker,but not quite as much.
Just dont believe everything you hear as gospel.
SR,
Sorry the name ‘Robbie Savage’ and the phrase ‘do a really good job’ does not sit well with me. I view them as two mutually exclusive things, even if he is kind to his mum/mom etc…. 😉
Robbie Savage is that rare breed who you would piss on if he was on fire….just cos pissing on him might be a laugh
TS and Tim,
See, that is EXACTLY why Robbie Savage has his job, he provokes such a reaction. Almost everybody hates him, but popularity isnt the main consideration, notoriety is. People will listen.
I mean, suppose instead of Robbie Savage, it was Mark Lawrenson, who would listen, who would even stay awake, I mean he has a lot to say but…….. zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Before I go to bed, just thought I would give everyone a laugh from this quote from the Telegraph.
“Harry Redknapp admits that, one day soon, Tottenham will win Premier League. It’s only a matter of time.”
SR, Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (repeat about 88 times and there your have it!)
SR – to which the Telegraph journalist, I hope, said – “50 years and counting you twitchy faced twat…..”
Lively interlull so far on the happy train, and let me remind you all, this train is bound for glory. Pardon me for a second while I refresh the drinks cart.
I don’t know anymore –
The only people who rate Utd’s current squad are Utd supporters!
The great Utd dis-banded when the club received 90+million to help the Glaziers finance their shopping malls and to deliver their best players lifelong dream of playing at the Bernabeu.
So where does that leave us (Arsenal not Utd 😉 )…hmmmm?
Maybe points lost could have helped our cause. A shiny Beer Trophy maybe? Cesc being available for the CCF? Is it any coincidence that the c#nts up the road lost their attacking flare when their Motorcycle became sidelined? Yeah I know he’s back. Not fully fit though is he? I could give you other examples of other teams whose best players help them to perform better, but they’re not worth my time. Playing in Europe next season spuddies? Huh enjoy the experience at the expense of a Citeh side that costs half the price of the 136million dollar man (converted in to Euros you get the figure) and who will still finish below us (Lol!)
I’ll tell you where that leaves us, undermanned? Not enough workers? People talk about Utd’s second string, but the truth is they have played with the same players for most of this and last season, rotating the same players. But they are average! That by no means makes our squad less than average! I would say to be where they were a month ago, still makes them the best squad in the prem, hands down!
We had the busiest schedule in Jan-Feb, so fatigue had to show at some point. But you mark my words you unfaithful gunners. Once this talented Arsenal side gets going (A&B) team again we’ll be the ones reaping the rewards. The teams playing once a week will get brushed aside and those with one extra game will get the same treatment. Trust me gooners, with enough fit players we will win the league!
Goonertown,
top stuff that’s the spirit, i never responded to I don’t know anymores post after manc game because to be honest it didn’t really deserve a response.
SR
lawrenson is boring he is also a wanker and it still makes me very happy remembering the day I told him that to his face
zico
alas I have to turn down the chance of a bit of freelance work, my rule is if we are playing I’m there not driving people to finsbury park that’s what the spud supporting drivers are for! However I’m happy to share a carriage with you ts and the other happy drinkers, I’ll bring the beer
Glennw normally I would reserve my opinion but the bar was getting boring with all this Manure this and that
Goonertown,
I agree, I felt the same about the barca stuff as well, hard not to bite sometimes especially when over the top slagging of our players, manager and club is thrown in as well.
steve T and Trev. my misread re your comments on senderos. apologies. feelings running high at present.
ok glennw. i am no flag flyer for united (retches at thought) but i try very hard to take a dispassionate view of football. i enjoy the banter as much as anyone but i will never jeer top players because they play for other clubs, bale is a top player, so is van der vaart and modric. so is suarez, rooney, vidic, nani. so is (or was) essien. one can still love one’s team and not be blind to quality. so rather than being patronising and say “it didn’t deserve a response” look at the two sides and tell me who you would rather have in the team and WHY. by why i don’t mean “because Rooney is a twat” but evidence that they are a better player and evidence they have done more when it really matters and they are winners
so one more time
vander sar
rafael, ferdinand, vidic, evra
nani nasri cesc fletcher
rooney rvp
and goonertown.i am disappointed in you,. you again say “we have the best squad in premier league, hands down” what ? when everyone goes on about “if only we had our first eleven” – how good are the subs in that case ? actually city have the best squad hands down but look where they are. it is not just about being pretty on the ball or costing a lot of money.
Idka
sorry but you very much seem to be flag waving for utd to me, also taking a dispassionate view, what’s that all about? I recognise a good player when I see one but it doesn’t mean I have to like them, for instance I don’t like Rooney or Terry not only because they play for rivals but because they are both arseholes as human beings however I have noticed they are both quite good! I thing maybe you should try getting passionate about your club, you might find you enjoy it more. Oh and goes without saying really but I disagree with most of your team, fletcher really, I don’t think so
glennw
it is not difficult to be passionate about your team while remaining aware of talents of others. only a blind man or iq <30 would say that we have the best 11 players in league. this is nothing to do with wthere one likes players – i don't like sagna for example but i try not to let this cloiud my view of him as a player. and actually i don't agree with you re terry – i think he is good but not top.
i love the gooners – always have and always will – but when we flatter ourselves that we are the best one looks to who is the "best" and compares ourselves to that. in england this is united. there is little disputing that as much as it galls us. we may think they are crap but they are ahead of us and still in 3 competitions. they have won 6 major trophies since we last won ONE.
the team i put up was after the game at OT. since then jack has come through amazingly so he takes fletcher;s place. no question. so who else do you disagree with. and why. maybe i could do it for you
goalkeer, centre halves, move along shall we. ?
left back . i detest evra but he and cashley are def the ebst 2 left backs in league possibly ch league.
right back. i don't rate sagna. i think rafael will be a tiop player in a year or two although i accept others may disagree.
midfield – 3 from us + nani. who do we have that would do better ?
up front rvp + rooney. or chamakh or bentner ? please. please
Lars @ 127,
You’re not impressed with David Luiz??? I almost fell off the couch when I saw that one mate. Do you know where the bar’s medicine cabinet is?
Expect Luiz to be the starting CB for Brasil in the Copa America this summer and next World Cup. He basically is Lucio but with greater technical ability. Sure, he is a bit over eager at times but so too is Koscielny. I, for one, would gladly have a straight up swap Luiz for Kos every day of the week and twice on Sunday (and throw in Squid to sweeten the deal). Luiz is better than any CB we have (even JD or TV).
Truth is, we couldn’t afford him. Or, Wenger would never pay around £25m for a CB. Even a £10m CB would have made a big difference. Not only for this season but going forward also. Trouble is, Stingy Voyeur won’t spend that kind of cabbage for a CB either. But he will go to the grave with money in his pocket in the hopes of taking it with him to the after life. I’m still steaming about our inactivity in the window. Maybe the pundits were right and Stingy was wrong?
Can somebody please tell me why people go on and on about Gary Cahill? He’s not that good…
Samba would have been nice. And why not go foreign? How would Mertesacker have looked in the red and white? I’m sure we could afford him but Stingy won’t splash the cash. We’re not talkin’ Luiz kind of money. We knew Squillaci was shit before January and let’s be serious, we also knew TV was not going to be a factor by XMas either. Relying on JD & Kos to last the season was a big mistake and the writing was on the wall in January. And Stingy did not act. And we were in a serious challenge on multiple fronts. The inaction was a derilection of duty that was criminal. And we had the money to spend if the right player was available. Sorry, something does not add up here. I’m not drinking that Kool Aid.
A 6’6″ CB with international experience would be able to deal with our set piece problems. Like the first goal on Saturday for example.
That back three of Almunia, Kos, and Squid is our Bermuda Triangle. The ball goes in, but it don’t come out.
And I really feel for Almunia the man. He’s been through hell. He’s a great shot stopper (most of the time) but his decision making is incredibly wanting. He just does not have it between his ears. And sadly, too many of our players don’t have it between the ears either if we are perfectly honest.
Most neutral pundits are saying that Chel$ki will overtake us. I’ll try to be positive. In a way, I’m shocked we are still in this race but happy that we are.
Up the Arse!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3hn6fFTxeo
all that Arsene needs to tell the team
Goonertown, excellent post.
A win against Blackburn and we are back on track. Come on you gooners, there’s no point being negative about our chances.
Let’s wait and see what happens. let’s just wait
As for all the additions and subtractions talk, to me there is only 2 players that need to be replaced.
One is Denilson. His time is up unfortunately and he has been passed by Ramsey and Wilshere. Cash in and let Frimpong take over or buy a young prospect with some experience.
Two is a bit controversial. I really like the guy and think he is an immensely useful player and is improving daily. But I think Bendtner should be replaced by another talented young striker and here is my reasoning. In the final third we play finesse. When RVP is out all our buildup play is great until it reaches Bendtner. We are forced to counter our philosophy and resort to crossing from the wings. We need a striker that can do both as our first guy off the bench. Of course I am a bit uncertain of this and really like Bendtner, I just think he doesnt exactly fit into this squad.
Come on you gunners get this thing done for the same of my sanity
TVN. I agree with an awful lot of what you have said above about centre backs and keepers. It is really not rocket science for me.
TVN: “Even a £10m CB would have made a big difference. Not only for this season but going forward also. Trouble is, Stingy Voyeur won’t spend that kind of cabbage for a CB either”
Both Vermaelen and Koscielny were bought for pretty much £10m, give or take a few thousand quid depending on the exchange rate at the time between euros and pounds.
IDKA:
You say that you try not to let your dislike for Sagna cloud your judgment, but when you pick Rafael over him then that’s exactly what you have done. And Fletcher on the left??? What’s he going to do there, use his brilliant technique and speed to run past the opposition fullbacks?
This would be my team, given that all players were fit and at their best:
VdS
Sagna-Vidic-Vermaelen-Evra
Nani-Song-Cesc-Nasri
RvP-Rooney
Yes, really. ManU have been carried by Vidic, VdS, Nani and to a certain extent Rooney all season. Rafael is a huge talent, but he’s not there yet. And I pick Nasri because neither us nor them really have a proper left-sided player, but he would be best suited to play there of the players I can think of from both teams. You picked Ferdinand, but why? It’s been years since he was at his best, and quite frankly I am not sure he will be a starter when (or indeed if) he gets his back in order again.
SteveT@144: let me just clarify that if there is signifcant money just lying around then for the life of me I can’t understand why we don’t use it. This is why I think that the financial reports may sound a lot better than they actually are. It’s happened many times before that clubs have said “all is well, nothing to see here, these little debts are all under control” and then one day when you can’t hide it anymore through fancy-dan book-keeping trickery it all blows up in your face. Just look at Pompey where everything was going great and they won the FA Cup in 2008, had not a care in the world and a little over a year later were – very literally – on the brink of extinction. I have to say that there is a nagging feeling in me that things may not be as financially rosy at Arsenal as they are painted out to be – though I really, really hope I am wrong, of course.
Lars
good to have the debate. a few points
– it was a fantasy 11 (all fit and on form). therefore ferdinand would get in ahead of TV5 (neither fit so bit of moot point – same often for cesc and rvp alas..). at his best ferdy5 or whatever he calls himself is imperious.
– i didn’t pick sagna because i don’t like him but because i don’t rate him. as i said i try and separate the two. he is a good footballer but not as good as he thinks he is. i hear what you say about rafael not being there yeat and you are right but what a terrier he is as well as classic brazilian lack of respect for restrictions of a position. that lad could play anywhere , like luiz. as i also said i accept others may disagree
– fletcher was picked for energy and defensive qualities, something lacking in your midfield ! most of all he is a winner and even though has what even united fans would say is limited abilities he has done us time and time again, not everyone can or should be a dribbler. someone has to the work. all great teams have someone in this role. for me song is unproven in the mentality but i later put jack in instead anyway
in any case we go back to my point. we say the united team is shit and our first 11 is amazing but we get (for me) 4, max 5 in the best 11. even for you max 6. you say that united have been carried by a few players but that could be said of us too – jack, cesc when fit, samir.
not only that but compare who would take the united positions from us and their players that would take our positions and you will see that the quality gap is not as much as we think
for us it would be szechny, clichy, arshavin, chamakh/bentner
for them fletcher, andersen/carrick, scholes, berbatov/hernandez.
so we don’t have the extraordinary squad that we think we do. we get no more than half of the best and for me the next 5 aren’t as strong. even if we say they are similar, united fans admit this is their least strong squad for quite a while so no great reflection on us. the difference at present is attitude and drive. which is what makes it so frustrating because you would assume that was the easy bit right ?
The fact of the matter is both Manure and Arsenal’s current best 11 wouldn’t live with their counterparts of yesteryear.
The standard of the Premier League has really dropped this year, despite having 3 teams in the QFs of the Champions League. The fact that we have dropped so many points and are within touching distance of winning the thing says it all.
If you want to look at it objectively, how many of the current Arsenal 11 would get into the Invincibles team?
Doesn’t mean I don’t want to win it, btw.
Is the bar open yet?
I don’t know anymore –
Lol! 🙂
Would you rather have Utd players in our squad, or would you prefer our squad to play better than Utd’s?
How can City have a better squad when we have out peformed them this season?
goonertown
of course i want our squad to play better but to do that we need better players…
in terms of strength in depth city have best position but they all went there for wrong reasons so largely couldn’t give a flying …..
zicoinexile – excellent summary. that may be true across europe. i think either chavs or mans will make the final
Zico – Gael Clichy, Almunia, Fabregas and Van Persie (although the latter played in the cups). I’ll leave the Manure sum ups to the Mancs! 🙂
Harsha –
“Let’s wait and see what happens. let’s just wait”
I believe that’s the crux of the matter isn’t it?
The end of season debate will be lively 😉
goonertown
can’t let that pass. was this a list of those that would make the invincibles ? you are winding us all up right ?
Lars. I hear what you say but the money has to be there. Otherwise there is something amazingly corrupt going on. My understanding is that the figures quoted are all audited and authenticated. Every business in the world will borrow against its assets. Now I am not for one second saying we need to go out and spend what we don’t have. But the value of the club and its assets must be hundreds and hundreds of millions. If we really can not responsibly raise the cash to make signings then we might as well call it a day now.
As I have said before, I really do not think we need a massive overhaul. But a few quality signings would have made all the difference.
In my humble opinion of course.
Strength in depth?
They were rolled over by Dinamo Kiev. We wacked Barcelona (notice the strength in depth right there?)
i don’t know anymore –
Do your research…oh and you can add mad Jens too!
Well?….
A couple of additions to the squad would not hurt
goonertown
i didn’t say they were playing to their strengths but they have the deepest squad. i think you are missing a “were” before “whacked” and “by” after it.
re invincibles. noty much research required. its like it was yesterday.
clichy instead of cole ? cole shat on us but hell of a player. clichy isn’t close. rvp instead of thierry or dennis ? huh ?
i will let almunia pass. its too easy. we wouldn’t have gone 5 games unbeaten with him
cesc instead of freddie i will grant you.
for me actually the 1998 team was better and were unlucky to come up against one of the great united teams for next few years. now her i agree with zico. almost none of wither mancs or us would get in those teams
i don’t know anymore –
The point you are missing is that they WERE in the invincibles squad! Jens and Gael have the medals to prove it if you don’t believe, me whilst the others participated in the cups, which they won the following season with the root of the Invincibles squad intact!
Your were too busy drooling over Manure to notice these facts about Arsenal!
‘Holic – David Hytner in the Guardian has swooped on the Wilshere-Ramsey story, not that you couldn’t still do your own.
Do we already take it for granted that Wilshere’s an England player, or is it startling to consider that he could be starting a Euro qualifier this week?
About Hytner’s contention that they’re more teammates than mates, all I know is that when those two were playing in the Carling Cup together last season and/or two seasons ago, they looked like soul mates on the pitch.
goonertown
we were talking best 11 (see zico’s post @196) . the internet is an amazing thing you know. “facts” are easily obtainable there
clichy played 7 games that year when cole wasn’t fit. hardly first 11. by definition he couldn’t get in the first 11
rvp joined arsenal in mid may 2004. a little late to take any credit for the invincibles i would think ?
jens was but you said almunia
the 2005 team is not what we were talking about. unfortunately after the defeat at old trafford they went downhill and ended up a long way adrift of a mourinho inspired chelsea.
which is an interesting point. two great teams (97/98 and 03/04) just came up against excellent teams very quickly and then disintegrated. pipped at the post in 1999 we then finished 18 points behind the following season. invincible in 2004 12 points behind chelsea in 2005 and by 2006 had also fallen behind united. what does this tell us about arsene and adversity ?
and please don’t make it personal – i have always enjoyed our discussions., i don’t “drool” over united, but am simply examining what makes them tick and how they do it time and time again. this is how one learns rather than pretending everything is alright “if only”
i don’t know anymore
The best XI?
The invincibles were a big squad with players who participated in all competitions. One without the other would not have been able to achieve what we did. Oh and you can also add JD to my list too, reserve or not!
The fact the players I mentioned were part of the squad was because they had a chance of getting in to the starting XI if needs must.
Nobody’s stopping you from supporting Manure! The doors are open! 😉
🙂 🙂
Re: MoMoney2 @190 you must belong on the happy train. Everybody who is throwing out names with the assurance that Arsene didn’t try to get these players, have fun but it’s all a bit useless.
The latest published accounts suggest there is not a lot of cash floating around in the November published accounts.
I will try to explain by keeping it really simple.
There are four main elements to the balance sheet (which shows the assets and liabilities of the club).
Tangible assets, which is mostly the cost of the stadium and equipment, stood at £434m. This will be depreciated down in the years to come.
Cash was £110m, seems a lot, but, short term creditors (which are debts due for payment within one year) were £117m. So in actual fact, after paying our creditors, there is no money left.
Then there were the long term creditors (amounts due in more than one year) of £272m, mainly the financing of the stadium.
There are a load of other bits and pieces but basically the total value of the club is £252m which is the value of the stadium less the debt owed on it.
Not a cash rich situation at all.
Interestingly, there are about 62000 issued shares, current value about £9.5k, which actually values the club at around £600m. So the market value includes a massive £350m in goodwill. And that is why we wont get a sugar-daddy come and buy the club.
goonertown
the question zico asked what who would get in first 11. if you are saying only 4 of this squad would get in the invincibles squad, christ that is rather worrying.
what was rvp’s number in that squad exactly. or was he doing a double shift with feyenoord ?
I don’t know anymore –
Fact remains he was in the squad
Now when it comes to who would get in to that squad. Well that’s another argument!
No money no ambition blimey it’s a bit sad round here at the moment, well we are still basking in the warm rays of CL football. With a busy tough schedule ahead. Can’t wait to give Johnny come lately’s to norf london a good jolly thrashing at the Lane.. Don’t forget your bus passes.
stone roses.
football clubs operate in a parallel universe it seems. all they have is a stadium and some players. none have any real cash, the only two who generate it are us and united. thanks to high ticket prices we generate good cash flow from football but relatively little at merchandising (developing the “brand”) – united have mastered that art. for both of us it goes to paying off long term creditors.. the worry would be is we stopped being “succesful” – fickle supporters love winners (se e chelsea c 2005) and the more we are portrayed as serial “losers” this may impact on our image. of course as gooners we care less about this but it is not the insular world that we used to love in when we turned up at highbury and didn’t care what anyone thought of us.
we may get a sugar daddy although the price may be a little high for them. abramovich reputedly looked at united but thought he could get chelsea for not very much and spent it on players. what he doesn’t have though now is an asset than would sell easily. same for abu dhabi. they could have got united for what they have committed to city and again have nothing but a bunch of overpaid mercenaries and no-one would take city off their hands for a fraction of the price.
what we may get is a cash flow investor who look into the future and see increased revenues from tv./internet etc. united are variously valued at 1-1.5b pounds so 600 isn;t so much ? what the owner would be getting is one of the few real “brands” in english football other than united you would say liverpool and possibly spurs. in fact its really only us and united because we have the stadia and the basis of a strong team whereas spurs and liverpool have all that pain to come.
so to answer your question there is not currently much cash but we are better off than anyone bar united and chelsea / man city who have silly money.
Cus –
As for you, your gloating must be aimed at City as they are who compromised their place in the CL whilst you’re not in the title race and will be back where you belong in 8 weeks!
goonertown
pedantry i know but as you labour with false facts
“Joined Arsenal May 17, 2004”
this stuff isn’t difficult. go to google and type robin van persie joined arsenal . there is a site called arsenal.com or something like that
i think they had probably finished the champagne when he arrived.
I don’t know anymore –
You’re referring to RVP I take it? Tell me which members of the “invincibles” left Arsenal pre May 18th?
NB: You may not find the answer on Arsenal.com
goonertown
this is getting too too obscure. to recap
you said “the players I mentioned were part of the squad was because they had a chance of getting in to the starting XI if needs must”
i said “what was rvp’s number in that squad exactly. or was he doing a double shift with feyenoord ?”you said “Fact remains he was in the squad”
and he wasn’t. i already knew that but thought some “evidence” would help. not sure how we got on to people leaving the invincibles.
is the bar open yet ?
Success is relative, our fear was you might win something this year, removing our bragging rights. Hence winning the League Cup and then going down to Manure the next year was ok, but your example was manner from heaven. My fear now is that all the plaudits Twittchy face has got for his spurs revival has now gone to his head and he wants to be like Wenger. So I announce his new name Professor Geezer! His tac tics were spot on against the spammers. Just like your esteemed Dean of Faculty.
I reckon the best game of the season will be on the 20th and I cant wait!
The other poor love who is posting about your money matters should be aware that Spurs run mainly in profit. And always finds the cash to splash.. COYS!
Good afternoon ‘Holics
Let’s play nicely now, please.
SR @ #175,
Yes, truly hilarious and put a big smile on my face. I wonder, did the same article discuss his firm belief in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and getting his tax returns in on time? It just goes to show how much favour/leniency Spuds get with the media vs us. Much of that is down to their 50 years of failure vs our period of supremacy in the late 90’s and early noughties. Also, Awwy Twitchface is being lined-up/lining himself up for the England manager’s job. There’s another hilarious/scary thought for contemplation to while away some of the boring hours of the interlull.
Glennw @ #180,
You told Lawro that he was a boring w*nker to his face? You’re a hero in my book. Did you get to include the words sad and fat as well?
Zico @ #196,
Many people are saying that the standard of football in The Premiership has dropped this season. You/they may well be right, I’m not convinced. I believe that the standard of the teams outside of the Big 4/5 has improved. This means the Big 4/5 are under greater pressure to perform consistently. I do agree with AW when he says that this season anybody can take points from anybody. That does seem to be borne out by some very surprising results all season but it depends on your perspective. Certainly, there’s no one dominant team this year and that’s a good thing in general for the sport although as a Gooner I wish we could have been dominant this season.
Lars @ #194,
Some really good points in your post there on financials and who has been carrying Manurine this season. The board of any company will usually try and make the numbers look as good as possible to the outside world. I’m sure we apply accounting practices to our turnover and profit figures as well as the next team. Like you, I trust that our figures are based on firm foundations. If, however, we end up moving to Underhill in a couple of seasons with a team of 16 and 40 somethings to contest League 2 then we can all say that we heard it first from you!
Cheers one and all. Lunchtime drinks all round of any description on my tab.
Cusop: bragging rights??? For what exactly? For going half a century without winning the league? Or for having secured league titles at WHL exactly half as many times as the Arsenal have? 😉
Goonertown, being impartial, I would say you are spoiling for a fight here. 😉
My question (or part of it) was which of the current 11 would get in the Invincibles 11?
My view is that a fully fit Cesc may just make it, but the rest of them wouldn’t have a chance.
At Cusop – looking forward to your fiftieth anniversary, you loser? Enjoy your fleeting moment in the sun – you will be telling your grandkids about that wonderful season when the Spuds once played in the champions league.
IDKA: we may not agree on exactly the same selection, but a good debate nonetheless. Have a pint on my tab!
I don’t know anymore –
Look it doesn’t matter when he arrived the “invincibles” were relatively unchanged when he arrived right up until the end of the following season. I never said he was in the team, if that’s what you’re talking about. What’s obscure about that?
Ah Cusop
Welcome back, have a beer. Did you wipe your feet on the way in?
“Success is relative” – indeed it is. It’s been a good 50 years since you lot were relatively successful and long, long may it continue.
Bring on 20th, also can’t wait. With any luck I’ll be there to cheer on the good guys as the next England Manager enters into ‘Twitchcon 10’. Rumour has it that the row behind your technical area is now regularly occupied by members of HMRC – care to comment on that one?
Zico – missing my point again…Cesc was in the invincibles squad. Don’t follow IDKA or you’ll end up at Old Trafford!
@ Lars #224 and Zico #225,
Classic comments, cheers!
Just when we thought the interlull was gettting boring fresh meat arrives from Three Point Lane 😉
Cheers Lars. the black stuff for me if you will
goonertown. they weren’t invincibles in 2005-6. possibly because your list started to get in the team? QED
Goonertown I don’t agree with everything IDKA has said above (“Ferdinand imperious” for one) but the original point was which of our best 11 would get into the Invincibles 11 – my argument is that we and Utd have had much better teams in recent history and the standard has dropped.
Just my humble opinion.
Now has that smelly Cock been escorted out of here by the bouncers yet?
Pints for all the Gooners in the bar (my tab) and a poke in the eye for any interlopers 🙂
IDKA,
Ignoring property trading, the football side of the business is in a break even situation. Given that, £350m is a huge chunk of change for a brand.
I totally agree that we need to maximise commercial revenues. I am no expert on the subject but the prevailing thoughts are that we have some pretty lousy commercial deals.
There are also a lot of prevailing thoughts that we have some well overpaid under-performers that need trimming.
Actually, I wouldn’t mind that job really, being a totally overpaid under-performer. Sounds good.
I don’t know anymore –
I can now see what you mean about obscure. You seemed to have skipped the preceding 12 months in your last attempt of belittle the current squad! 🙁
Getting ahead of yourself again I see 😉 !
Cus – “no money, no ambition”. According to Rooneh a few months ago, you appear to have us confused with Manure! 🙂
Zico,
I’ve asked him to clean the carpets before he leaves.
…don’t forget to open the windows too someone please
TS @235
With a toothbrush I hope 😉
Drinks all round please I’m parched!
Gt,
I’m ahead of you mate, it’s already done.
Zico,
Yes and it’s his only one 🙂
The talk of finances proved extremely prophetic. Manure just announced loss for the year of £108 million.
Debt now £590m.
Cant find any more details yet.
If I was Warren Buffet, I would buy the bastards and close them down, net loss after tax about £800m. Would be worth every penny.
They would have to say ‘Love United, Hate Stone Roses’.
On a random note, I read today apparently 36 managers in the Premier League/Football League have been sacked or left their jobs ‘via mutual consent’ so far this season. 36! Just crazy stuff.
Charlie, 36 is indeed an impressive, not to mention ludicrous, number of fallen managers. But with the interlull upon us and boards getting twitchy I’m afraid that number is soon to rise. The forces against stability are many but it’s nice to know our club has a firm backbone.
stone roses
most of the united losses were one off relating to costs of restructuring of the debt. i study this not because i “drool” over united but because it is my job. most “reasonably conservative” projections show them earning enough money to service their debt/ over time as income grows (inflation + real growth) they should be able to repay it – similar to any mortgage analysis.
360m isn’t so much for a real brand that will grow in a normal market, the thing about football is that it ain’t normal. players own the game and the rest – managers, investors and supporters just service them
gonnertown
ok i meant 2004-05. you knew that. just admit that rvp had no part in invincibles, squad or otherwise , or i will have to call my mate lars over to talk to you !!
@ 8 Ball – that’s the first positive thing I’ve heard about Denilson all week. You were thinking of the Brasilian when you mentioned firm backbone, right? 🙂
Zico, re: Denilson I’ll just say he doesn’t seem so firmly entrenched anymore in our Sensational Sextet of Success, backbone or not.
IDKA,
I was an accountant in a previous life, but I worked in the real world. Perhaps thats why I dont get football fantasy land double entry 🙂
You’re not the only one out there SR. Join the club 🙂
Some better news in the interlull:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/djourou-out-for-minimum-of-four-weeks
Could be vital in the run-in for the title?
Everyone by now will have seen the earlier debate regarding our squad vs Manure’s.
Here’s one additional fact to throw into the melting pot:
We have 14 members of our squad called-up on international duty. Without injuries there would have been at least 4 more i.e. Cesc, Djourou, Theo and Song.
United have 8. No idea how many more of their players have been ‘held back’ through injury (e.g. Ferdinand) but the difference is significant.
The best news I’ve seen so far this interlull (regarding the “dictator” running FIFA): http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/9432196.stm
Now if only someone could convince him to flip the five and change it to a two.
And yet TS, they are the club in three competitions to our one, ahead of us in the table, and consistently pull rabbits out of their hat while we give up goals like the Almunia walkabout. Isn’t “Almunia” Spanish for walkabout?
This is true Theo although they have also given away some daft goals this year too and our defence has conceded one less goal than theirs although they have played one more game than us.
At the end of May, we’ll know if their current position counts for anything and indeed ours.
Can’t agree with you on the continued bashing of our current #1. It’s all been said already and there’s nothing we, as supporters, can do about it right now other than get behind what we’ve got and try to help the team over the line.
A drink to toast our differences?
Joshua,
It’s not good news. Platini has said he wants to run for President in 2015. One bastard out, one bastard in.
I was kind of hoping David Beckham would run for either FIFA or UEFA but I think it’s all just so corrupt, he wouldn’t get in.
I’m always willing to drink if others are willing to supply 🙂
I wonder if TMG will be using this period to train his socks off in the hopes that Le Boss might resort to him. Personally, I don’t think he will until we are almost mathematically out of it.
David Beckham has not the grey matter to hold such an office.
That’s two-way street of course Theo but happy to get this one 😉
Would be good to see TMG play again (from a nostalgic perspective) but I think/hope Wojciech will be back before the end of the season, maybe even to face Manure?
You seem to be convinced that we are not going to win the title. Many will agree with you. Let’s hope the team proves you wrong and then we can all celebrate together.
TVN,
Yeah, you are right. I was just trying to think of anyone English who could put themselves forward. Certainly, none of the bozo’s on the FA would be welcome.
Maybe Tony Pulis? 🙂
TS,
I hope for the best but expect the worst. I thought we had to hold serve at WBA to be honest. But we failed to do so. I honestly think the only way we will be on top at the end of the year is if ManU suffer more injuries and we get healthy.
I’m a bit surprised Szczesny can’t be back sooner than reported. He only dislocated a finger, from what I saw, in Barcelona. And to be honest, if the same injury happened to Schmichel or Seeman I can’t see those GKs even leaving the game, let alone missing four plus weeks. Kobe Bryant gets a similar injury, doesn’t miss time, and postpones surgery until after the season. I guess that’s one definition of what it takes to be a winner that we are not familiar with.
TVN walks and refuses seat on Happy Train.
You can lead a horse to water TS…….
The difference is, Kobe Bryant is one of the greatest players ever, Szczesny only thinks he is.
TvN
Some of that is already happening (re: injuries/recoveries) plus they now have suspensions to deal with. Anyway, plenty more football to go before that large lady serenades us.
Not an expert on the medical stuff, some in here are. However, I’m sure that any of our players would want to get back from injury ASAP especially to make a contribution at such a critical time of the season. From what I have seen, young Wojciech seems to be highly committed to the cause.
SR, Even if Platini ends up in FIFA, at least we have one less of them to put up with.
TvN, as seen by the current incumbents, grey matter is not required to get the job.
Who knows, maybe some rich “businessman” from Russia or Qatar will come in and take over.
Zico,
I’m on the train but I’m in the Liquid Car in order to make myself happy. Didn’t a wise man once say that alcohol is an incredible invention or something along those lines.
And Kobe, as a BBall player, is in greater need of a finger on his shooting hand than Cheezer as a keeper. In my opinion, players in most sports are getting softer these days. Ronnie Lott had a finger amputated, back in the day, so he would not miss playing time. And Szczesny is missing four plus weeks for his injury during a title run??? C’mon man. You can do better than that. That’s soft and week.
s/b Liquor Car
Zico,
Fair point and vive la difference!
SR,
At least he has the right mentality for the job 😉
s/b soft and weak. Man I can’t spell today. Damn iPhone spellcheck. I’m gonna need some wobbly pops today 🙂
Too much time in the Liquor Car perhaps, TvN
Joshua – Haven’t visited said car yet today. But I will. Will I ever.
One of the many sportsman whom I hate with a passion is Michael Irwin, but I saw in interview with him and he was asked what he most missed. He turned it around and said what he didnt miss was the unbelievable pain he had to play through from week 3 onwards, every season.
Just saying…
Am I the only one that finds Szczesny a little soft for sitting out with such a minor injury? Boy, you Brits sure are a pretty understanding bunch.
SR,
I can assure you that Michael Irvin would not be sitting on the sidelines with the injury that Cheeser has. Especially nearing season’s end, in a title race, and with the GK situation being what it is. Would Schmichel be acting this way? I don’t think so. He would not have even left the game at Barça. That was one of the first things that crossed my mind at that moment.
I wish Michael Irvin had sat on the sideline, along with Troy bloody Aikman and Emmit fat bastard Smith. Would have made my life as a Niner a lot more bearable.
So, as a Niner fan you are more than well versed in the Ronnie Lott story I presented earlier.
Just think of that. The man had his finger amputated so he wouldn’t miss a game. Now that’s committment to the cause. AFC has a reputation for being soft and mentally weak. And that’s not earned overnight I’m afraid. The club will have to work hard to overcome that perception.
Sigh, Bill, Joe, Jerry, Ronnie…takes me back. Ooops, OJ ?????!!!!
Dont you just hate the international break, you find yourself going off-topic 🙂
It’s only Tuesday and I’m bored. I’m watching a re-run of the CIS Cup. So far no incidents to speak of Zico …
Correct me please but is there a consensus of opinion building here that suggests a 19 year-old GK should have one of his fingers amputated to help demonstrate that he is man enough/hungry enough for the job?
I’m glad for the international break, it’s come at the right time for us to be honest. We can regroup for April and keep the flickering flame burning hopefully.
And seriously, Szczesny is injured, he’s not weak or anything else and no amount of pointless ‘Player X in this sport was trampled by wild horses and was back playing the next day’ stories will change that. It’s just bad luck.
TS and C.
I’m sure Szczesny is badly hurt. I was just shooting the breeze.
For instance, Lawrence Phillips missed a block and Steve Young got a hit in the back and had to retire. Just a hit in the back? No-one would ever doubt Steve Young’s commitment.
I got a paper cut on my finger once and had to take three weeks off work with shock 🙂
I’m just so bored, 14 days between Arsenal games is too long.
Beeb says Djourou is expected back in training in about a month after exploratory surgery today revealed no need for reconstructive surgery. The positive news is starting to roll, so it’s time to play the dice ladies and gentlemen.
Sorry TS, I see I’m 34 posts behind the times. At least I’m trying!
If Djourou is back in training in a month, he could be ready for Manure at home and Stoke, Villa and Fulham!
That is the best news of all best news.
Even if that’s true, we still have to beat Blackburn/Blackpool/Liverpool/Spurs and Bolton first! One step at a time.
TS,
Not saying that Cheezer should get his finger cut off but four weeks with his injury? In the midst of a title run? Please.
Kobe wouldn’t stand for it. Schimichel wouldn’t stand for it. Both are multiple champions …
And I thought the young Pole was 20?
Hampden Park is Scotland’s answer to Wembley Stadium right? It seems to be getting on a bit to me. When will the Scots construct a new Hampden?
The pitch, especially, looks rather ragged.
Theo it was rebuilt as recently as 1999 at a cost of approx £60m.
It’s a feckin dump.
PS there’s a new post up, and its brilliant.
Please please let Lehman play against us I hope he will ready. We can have goal festival. And tell Arsene to bring that silly coat he wears we will give him free half empty bottles of water to smash on the grass. We will sing him songs and teach you quite boys to sing to.
Actually you should sell the tickets as .. HOW to lose gracefully and get free singing lessons to boot!
I’m feeling all gospelly now ,, oH happy days ! OH dear lord such Happy days , wheeennnneeee n we blow arsenal away, oh happpy days..
Tvn
think you will find it was bit more than straightforward dislocation, he damaged tendons as well, as for being soft your on dodgy ground, our sportsmen don’t strap quilts round themselves to protect them from the knocks, though have to admit I don’t blame the ice hockey players for dolng so. As for baseball we played that at school sometimes but mostly left it to the girls, think we call it rounders though
Who let Cusop out of the medicine cabinet?
“Arsenal goalkeeper Wojciech Szczesny has revealed the injury he sustained against Barcelona in the Champions League has not stopped him putting in the hours on the training pitch.
The Polish ‘keeper has been sidelined for two weeks and faces a minimum of two more weeks in a splint after rupturing tendons in his left hand.
Manager Arsene Wenger last week stated that he expected the 20-year-old to miss six weeks of action.
The injury prevents him from taking part in a normal goalkeeping routine, but Szczesny is using the time to work on other areas of his game that will improve him in the long-term.
“I work in the gym everyday, working on my lower body and my distribution as well which will be very good for me,” he told the club’s website. “I’m not getting bored, I can still do a lot of stuff.
“There’s nothing you can do when it happens – you have to move on, work hard on your fitness and make sure you come back stronger than ever.
“There’s not a lot of joint damage, the tendon is ruptured. So basically I have to keep my finger in a splint for four weeks and let the tendon heal. From then it will be a couple of weeks before I can be back in the squad.
“It’s very hard, especially at a time when it was going well for me. We have got some big games coming up.”
not sure when the four weeks starts – from the barca game i assume. you do have to admire the bravery of these guys though he is still going to the gym and doing lower body work with his finger in a splint, true grit, what a warrior 🙂
the guardian
rvp says “”It is actually an advantage that we are no longer active in other competitions, so we won’t get distracted. We still have everything in our own hands and will do our utmost to win the league title, even though we have been dealt a few big blows in recent weeks.”
this is a sign of the weak mentality discussed on this blog. the biggest dealer of big blows has been yourselves, no one else. the f- up at wembley and hawthorns, you getting yourself sent off at barca, failing to score against sunderland etc etc.
if they really wanted to win the league they should have gone out much earlier, leaving the calendar clear. next we will hear they didn’t give everything against barca and united because they wanted to win the league.
can you imagine terry – i hate him so much but his attitude is at least positive – saying ” we are glad we had a bad 2 months in december january because we can now focus on champions league” ?
Heh, Cus.
Two points from nine against three relegation candidates.
Not finishing top four.
Can’t afford to redevelop the swamp.
Stratford, your only hope of a half-decent stadium (that you couldn’t fill) is gone.
And no matter how you spin it the big club in North London has a fourteenth title (You have two? How quaint!) in it’s own destiny.
You must be so proud 😉
HOLIC, I only came here to sit on the wall and throw sticks and watch you all eat each other alive.
We continue to blow our chances but then again I have bet that shitty will implode first.
Meanwhile it is fun to watch our Gallic neighbour lose there cool. Just keep dropping the points guys so we can all battle it out for 4th
We can lend you a keeper if you want. One that can stand on his own legs even
cusop
all this talk of which was the best double winning team and how good the invincibles were must confuse you unless you are well into your 60s AND have a good memory. Would a dictionary of terms help you ?
I’m not reminiscing cos we are still in the CL
Cusop will not have the last word. Word.