Why The Old Boy Can’t Do What The Angry Young Man Did
Apr 26th, 2011 by 'holic
“Enough people were upset and angry for the Independent Arsenal Supporters Association to be established in the summer of 1991…Arsenal’s bond issue was something of a disaster, especially in public relations terms…Often angry confrontation ensued. The articulate and well-publicised anti-bond campaign – centred on the North Bank and fired up by the apparent injustice of Highbury losing its terraces at all – became bitter, personalised and confused…The depth of feeling, unbridged by constructive dialogue, led to personal recriminations which drove the two sides further apart.”
The End, Tom Watt, Mainstream Publishing, 1993.
I could have chosen other examples of Arsenal supporters history of protesting against perceived wrongs as an answer to a question I have seen in a number of places this week. “Have Arsenal supporters always been like this?” This however is the best example on the basis that the cause of the conflict was essentially a single issue.
Unsurprisingly at the end of the day the club were successful in getting supporters to pay money they didn’t want to pay, to fund a chunk of the cost of building a stand they didn’t want. Many, including this writer, were not happy, and felt distanced from the club they knew. I was 34, still glad to be part of something with people I went to games with home and away down the years. It felt the right thing to do. I couldn’t afford a bond. With prices rising I could no longer afford to go to every game. This seemed a personal affront.
Of course, as the saying goes, time is a great healer, and I still ventured to home games as often as possible, but always in the Clock End up until the time a few of us from out west were clubbing together to get tickets under the registration scheme (there was another protest issue!). The other lads preferred the North Bank so I went with them. I have to say in the end I used to enjoy going in there to listen to the various bands that would play on the stage next to the bar. That was a smart piece of thinking by someone.
Now another protest is planned for the day of the Aston Villa match. Like other bloggers I have been asked for my thoughts, although I suspect a few will have already decided what I think for me. As one who felt let down in 1991 I have every sympathy with some of the thinking behind the protest. It isn’t for me though for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, the black scarf movement to my knowledge was originally a protest formulated by people I have spent time around in years gone by. People I would want to be around every time we went away. People who went through the protests in 1991, and who earned the right to be unimpressed by some of the things they perceive as having changed for the worse. I’m told by some less than gruntled with the way things have progressed that there has been a degree of hijacking of the protest by people who do not share the background of the original movement. This may explain why a less focused approach has come to be released to try and explain the reasons for the march.
That is my second issue with the event. The press release lists a variety of complaints. Now I agree, for example, with every word in the opening section on season tickets. I’m not a season ticket holder, just a humble silver member, but I am back on the waiting list and have a future vested interest in the gold members getting more consideration. I can appreciate fully the feeling that the views of long-standing supporters haven’t been taken into account in the wake of the move to the Grove.
The section relating to Arsene Wenger has been carefully worded, but the possibility that this spills over into something more critical in the protest is something I cannot anticipate with any sense of shared belief. The movement has the capacity to bring together some of the different branches of the clubs support, but in having ‘The Manager’ as a reason to protest is just divisive, I fear.
For that very same reason I cannot lend my support to any call for the removal of the chairman. It will happen, probably sooner rather than later now that we have a majority shareholder. You are entitled to your views, but I cannot sign up to something so disrespectful to a member of a family that has been associated with club almost as long as mine, and a man who used his contacts to enable this club to fund the new stadium on terms that have now been revealed to be extremely favourable given the economic climate that surrounded them. His defence of his manager may not have pleased those he attacked for criticising Wenger, but the subsequent claims that he branded all Arsenal fans ‘silly’ is wrong, and mischievous.
Had the protest remained centred around future pricing, and building bridges with disaffected supporters I would have been there. To extend it into areas of criticism of individuals is just not acceptable to me personally. You may feel differently, and that is your right, but I will not be a part of something that doesn’t have the feel of ’91 about it. Back then it was about a section of the club being against the evil Dein creation. There was little opposition from other Arsenal supporters who understood our motivation completely. This one seems to me to be capable of setting Gooner against Gooner, and that is sad for me as one who has witnessed our support from so many perspectives.
164 Responses to “Why The Old Boy Can’t Do What The Angry Young Man Did”
I’ll have a pint Holic – personally, this protest lark is a bit too much like the green and gold comedy at Manure for my liking.
I will wait and see.
Great stuff mate. Pretty much how I feel. PHW never in doubt to me.
zico, it is no laughing matter for the people who formulated it. I suspect some will be surprised I am quite sad at some of the reaction to it from people who don’t understand the feelings that underwrote the original movement.
Those same people will rip me to bits for not supporting the bits about Wenger and Hill-Wood. I cannot change what I believe. A number of us around in ’91 will feel the same.
Cheers Esso. You would understand better than most.
Perfect ‘holic. Perfect. I’m with you on not being for it. Too many messages trying to be conveyed which are be open to various misinterpretations and could cause further friction amongst an already squabbling fan base.
Cheers.
Brilliant blog once again ‘Holic – summed up perfectly.
I can’t help thinking those who do protest are going to end up looking as silly as those Moan U supporters who wear the green and yellow scarves over their replica Rooney 10 shirts; the irony clearly completely missed on them.
And whilst he’s not perfect, it’s men like PHW who’ve ensured that, rather than only now falling into the hands of Silent Stan, we’d have been taken over by the odious Usmanov several years ago.
That was a gentleman’s response. I agree with all your points and reasons. WHOAG is an umbrella made broad by criticising individuals, which loses my sympathy.
The statements about tickets, seating, kits and prices in themselves imply dissatisfaction in other areas β such as on-field results and transfer policies. No need to stir things up disrespectfully.
Would love a drink, but it will be Lemsip tonight for me. Have something stronger yourself.
Don’t know how you do it Mate but this sums things up in a nutshell, I won’t be attending for many of the same reasons but the main one being it being hijacked as some sort of Wenger must go march by the Media. That’s not to say I don’t agree with 90% of the Agenda the Alienation has gone to far.
Funny I’ve just been discussing this on a very Pro manager site and trying to explain the disatification is a lot deeper than a manager issue and most of those involved are very very loyal fans.
I doubt there will be much marching mind most will need disability scooters and oxygen masks π
Our friend Dein pops up again I see, The North bank sit in and the East stand stand off were two particular favourites as was The Lukic must be number one we don’t want seamen battle of the clock end lol Happy Days we do like a protest or to once or twice a decade !!
Chippy, now I know you know where I’m coming from π
Excellent post. Agree with it to the word. The good stuff re: ticketing is diminished by the irrelevant nonsense re: PHW and more.
And I think to have any real credibility they need to go public, properly, instead of some faceless organisation with a website.
It might sound odd coming from ‘arseblogger’ but enough people know me, and can find me if they want me. Same applies to ‘holic and some of the blogs who I don’t agree with.
You can’t do this anonymously and expect people to support you.
I think they’re underming their main point by allowing the Wenger Out crowd hijack the event. Makes them easier to dismiss which is ashame as their points on cost spot on.
Sorry Holic – I didn’t really express myself too well – I agree that there are sensitive issues involved like pricing of tickets – just not sure of the protest march – be interested to see how many participants there are out of the 60,000 crowd and what spin is put on it, by both “sides”.
Or the right people to support you, I should say.
Cheers Blogs.
There are some sensible objectives in the press release. Little that isn’t being already being addressed by both AST and AISA though and nothing that needs a march or a press release to reinforce those objectives that are sensible. The stance taken on both the Chairman and the Manager tends to weaken the whole and just paints them as discontented, disaffected whingers. Partly because Hill-Wood is right – some fans are silly and stupid but even if he were wrong then why should it be ok for fans to express their opinions freely about the board and the management but not for the board and management to express their opinions about some fans. What’s sauce for the goose and all that. The problem with many supporters is that they are demanding to be treated as supporters while insisting in acting like consumers.
I can’t quite work out what the protesters want. Is it cheaper tickets and for the club to be in debt like so many others? What about the Spurs model? Should Arsenal follow that? Surely not the Chelsea or Man City route. If they want the club to win some silverware I can’t see how a protest will help. Obviously there will be many protesters who could manage the club and the players better than Wenger.
Holic and Arseblogger are real people?!?!?!
Not KroenkeBots??
Sheesh!!
I never knew.
Next you’ll tell me that we’re signing Bergkamp, Henry AND Brady.
Adam,
For the originators it was about the identity of our club being eroded,Its also about their support being taken for granted whilst getting fleeced at everyturn and then shafted once more, I can guaratee they wouldn’t want the club to go deep in to debt for gratification purposes they are a group that just thinks they are being left behind in the commercialisation of our club.
I’m so glad that we have cooler heads around like Goonerholic who have lived through much worse than just the last 14 years of top four finishes.
Thanks for this piece.
Chippy. If we had won the treble this year would they still think the identity of our club was being eroded and march with their protest ? Isn’t it just that they are pissed off, like may of us, that we have blown out again this season and the season ticket prices are going up which I think is a PR disaster personally.
Yes I think they would although I carnt speak on their behalf – whether it would be getting all this coverage tho I very much doubt, if that makes sense,
I read the other day The Mancs are also having a protest due to yet another increase on their season tickets and they’ve won everything over the past few years, Its getting to a point when an average joe will be outpriced all together and that is sad and I fully support them on that issue,
Kind of disagree. If people have strong feelings about a particular issue then seeing as we live in a democracy they should be feel to voice their complaint – in peaceful protest!
This would be a particularly good time to do it, seeing as Kroenke has just taken control of the club. It lets him know how passionate Arsenal supporters are about the club and the dangers of riding roughshod over us.
After all, if all he’s interested in is making money out of this venture, best that he knows now that supporters can quite easily mobilise themselves to destroy his investment if necessary.
Perhaps what I’m trying to say is that any form of protest at this juncture is useful. However, I would be surprised if there is a big turnout at this event, although it should attract enough media coverage for Kroenke to sit up and take notice.
As for Peter Hill Wood, he’s the board member I have the least respect for. In the last 30 years we should be looking to thank David Dein a lot more than Hill-Wood.
Without Dein, no George Graham, no Wenger – probably no Bergkamp.
Don’t remember Hill Wood going to watch the reserves in the rain, wind and snow. Hill Wood loves the prestige of being an Arsenal director but hasn’t done much beyond that – he’s never had any ambition or vision and his cak-handed, embarrassing comments have often shown him to be completely out of touch with the common Arsenal supporter.
His self-protectionism saw Dein, Edelmann, and Lady Nina kicked off the board and left a power vacuum at the club that has part led to Wenger completely running out of control. And it’s hard to respect someone that a few years ago told Kroenke to bugger off, then accepted him, then told everyone that Arsenal having a single investor was highly dangerous only to sell all his shares to him. That sums up Hill Wood to me – full of ****.
But haven’t the Mancs season tickets risen by lots of percents since the Glazers took over ? My feeling is that if people want to protest then good luck to them as long as they make it clear what they are protesting about and they keep it clean. I think that, had we won the treble, as I so foolishly imagined, there would be no such protest. My protest is that we haven’t won anything again and have capitulated in a rather embarrassing and pathetic way. But that is purely a personal thought. Oh and I also protest about the season tickets going up. And petrol.
James, we are not disagreeing about their right to protest. That is why I was nervous about commenting, because so many people will have a fixed view about what I would think of it.
Where we do disagree is about how useful it is at this moment. I think it serves no purpose to pit Gooner against Gooner, and further it has even less chance of achieving anything than our beef in ’91.
I’m offended by the prominence of an upper class / lower class mentality in the release — as if “fans” and “supporters” have any real-world difference in meaning to anyone but a few of the team’s very committed fans/supporters. Its a distinction without a difference.
Adding items like: “the sponsorships should make the club more money” really weaken the whole thing. Does any self-styled “supporter not a fan” think those running the club do not agree? And wasn’t it David Dein who cut all these deals? Were those bad deals or the best that could have been attained at the time? If the latter, then the issuers of the release onlyshow their lack of realism.
And if ticket prices are too high, short issuances are too frequent, isn’t that a contradiction with the complaint that name on the shirt was acquired too cheaply? Does anyone think that if the club issues half as many uniform changes that uniform revenue, and royalty revenue from the naming, won’t go down?
I agree with Holic, good job. As a distant committed supporter, I read the release as a disguised attack on the manager, pure and simple, done from anguish and disappointment. It will clearly please the newsmedia who love to attack the “non-Englishness” of the Arsenal, London’s first team.
Sad day. But I’m afraid these issuers of a press release come across as nostalgic for a past era, pre-TV, when the team were a bunch of alcoholics, and fan violence was an ever-present thing. Maybe they should direct their complaints at Mrs Thatcher, since she set the economic boom in motion that has brought top-level English soccer to such worldwide prominence, and Arsenal to such a high place in that prominence.
Oh, and after the second one, are we talking about the same Dein who had us protesting in ’91 at his bond scheme? The same man who tried to move us into the FA’s Wembley to further his own influence and ambition, the same Dein who made his own fortune out of Hill-Wood shares, the same Dein who tried to sell not only his own stake, but also those of another, behind everyones back. The same one who brought Usmanov to our door.
That’ll be him.
And if you think PHW was responsible for the removal of fellow directors you are, I’m afraid, ill-informed.
Adam,
I’m in your protest group π
Hill-Wood made millions out of his shares too, and the only reason he sold his to Dein all those years ago was because he didn’t have the foresight or ambition to imagine that Arsenal would one day be what it is. Only Dein had that vision, foresight and ambition.
As for Wembley, I think it’s very harsh to say Dein took that direction to further his influence with the FA. He was concerned about the enormous cost of the Emirates project and how it would affect Arsenal’s ability to compete with all the foreign investment coming into the Premiership, and it seems like he had a valid point.
He was also looking at Kings X as a venue, why bother if his only interest was to curry favour with the FA by moving to Wembley?
He made less than Β£5 million.
Guess who made Β£75 million?
Go on. Try really hard…
Dein was such a good business man that he had to sell two thirds of his Arsenal shareholding to Fiszman in order to bail him out of trouble in his own failed business venture. The vision and foresight was really from men like Fiszman and Wenger and the access to ‘old money’ that PH-W and Sir Chips provided. While Dein had his qualities it’s hard not to nod in agreement with Jon Spurling’s conclusion that while ‘Dein did some good for Arsenal, Arsenal did more for Dein’
I’m perfectly happy for Dein to have made a bundle out of Arsenal, because thanks to him the last 25-30 years has seen unprecedented success for this club and he’s been a key reason for it.
Why should Dein not bear the fruits of the success he was integral in creating?
If Kroenke wisely invests in Arsenal, delivers success and makes a bundle out of it I will be happy for him to.
One thing’s almost certain, With Hill Wood making all the decisions he’d still be living off the fans and Arsenal would be god knows where.
Holic,
Agree with everything you say in relation to the protest – especially when it masquerades as a form of personal criticism of Wenger / PHW.
You know I share a different viewpoint on Dein – but its fair to say, I think, that we respect each others differences in this respect without going over old ground.
Keep up the good work – of course, I know when I say something like that, thats its not “work” per se and something much closer to the bones of your soul..!!
Interesting.
I hadn’t read the press release until I linked it from your article ‘holic.
As you rightly say, any real validity to the protest is greatly diminished by the broad brush nature of the complaints.
This line gave me a wry smile: “Itβs widely reported and felt that one or two world class additions to the squad can help us achieve success and we firmly believe this.”
Makes it sound so easy, doesn’t it?
No black scarf for me I’m afraid.
I just read that piece of crap release and wondered whether we would have seen something like this if we had won the Carling Cup. I think not. One relatively insignificant league cup trophy and everyone would have gone about their business in my humble opinion.
If they truly, truly believe in the walk-out, or whatever their term is, they should walk out and not come back, not renew their season tickets until Arsenal FC meets their standards….whatever that may be….perhaps even if it’s a CC Trophy. I firmly believe that. I would have no issues with that and wouldn’t look down on them for making that choice.
Cheers Joe,
in my emotive state I forgot to acknowledge the good work Dein did when we had money and when told what was needed by Wenger.
Don’t want to belittle that, but as you say we have a difference of opinion about what drove the man.
I am led to believe that those who crave his return are passing water in something stronger than a breeze.
Well while you’re at it how about thanking Dein for employing Graham and Wenger in the first place? As you well know, the rest of the board resisted both appointments. It’s disgraceful how you deliberately avoid giving Dein credit for such massively important decisions in Arsenal’s great history.
Evening all. I had no idea of the press release until seeing this. My first thought is that it is pathetic. What does it actually say? We want everything cheaper and we want better players???? No shit Sherlock. So in the days when the media are looking to jump on every single negative aspect of the club we organise some two bob march? I want my local supermarket to sell me beer and pork chops at a reduced price but I am not organising a march to Tesco’s. Pathetic.
I have been a season ticket holder for years. I would love it to be cheaper but with 40,000 still on the waiting list that might be wishful thinking. I find the whole thing ridiculous.
I agree totally with you Holic. The timing is shocking and just before a game that potentially we will still need a result in. That baffles me. A chance at a bit of media attention for some small minded nobodies. All it will do is to increase the stupid text messages I get from spuds and other cretins trying to laugh at our great club yet again. I will be at the Villa game. I will be in the pub before as usual and I certainly will not be marching anywhere.
On the subject of David Dein I must say that I do think we miss him. I have wondered many times is AW is as effective without Dein next to him. Only he will know the answer to that one I guess.
Onwards and upwards. A quick Pedigree before turning in is the order of the day.
Nice piece to try to tone down a bit of mania. Tim’s comment (18) strikes me as poignant.
A pint of Magners, if you don’t mind ‘Holic.
Having read the press release, I can’t help but notice a few things.
1. Describing the sponsorship deals as “poorly struck” is to me, some of the worst kind of revisionist thinking there is. At the time we made those deals, they were hailed as ground-breaking, and most importantly, were a vital component of the funding for our new home. It is quite doubtful that we would have been able to complete the stadium without those deals. If anything, it was Arsenal getting Β£100 million pounds from Emirates Airlines which forced clubs like Man U, Chelsea, and the rest to demand higher shirt sponsorship deals, which these guys are now gazing longingly at. We led, they followed, and suddenly, we’re morons because we didn’t ask for Β£200 million?
2. The statement that our away kits have “traditionally” been yellow and blue is also a demonstration that the people behind this protest have no idea of the history of our club. A quick google search on Arsenal’s away kit hisory shows that we didn’t start wearing yellow and blue until 1969. I’ll grant that I like the yellow and blue better than some of the more recent offerings, but the idea that we have ALWAYS worn yellow and blue is extremely mischievous.
3. Their section on Peter Hill-Wood is simply disgraceful. This is a man whose family has been involved with Arsenal longer than any of the members of that protest group, and whose often sneered at old Etonian background has allowed us to make deals pushing our club forward. This is a man who has never taken a dime out of our club in dividends, and suddenly he’s a disgrace for defending his manager? Since when did the AST become “all supporters”? I agreed totally with what he said about that statement they made. It was stupid, silly, and if I may be frank, fucking idiotic and unhelpful.
4. David Dein. Dein, who wanted us to rent Wembly or move out of North London, and is suddenly the straw man (to borrow from Arseblogger) responsible for all our trophy woes? This is the same David Dein who, when the club said they didn’t want to do the whole sugar daddy thing, went and sold his shares to a Man U supporter for fucks sake! No self-respecting Gooner would do that. If I owned shares, I’d set them on fire before selling them to a Manc supporting cunt, no matter how much he offered me for them.
On the issue of season ticket prices, I totally agree that prices should be frozen because of the economic climate, and because we all know that we have the greatest, plucks-players-out-of-garbage-bins manager in the world, and if finances are tight, he’ll find a way to survive.
Whew! That was a proper rant and I am well parched. I’ll have another pint of Magners, ‘Holic.
If the protest is about rising ticket prices then good but attacking people is wrong. Its always said the players should keep their complaints behind closed doors, not let the media have a field day.
Real supporters too should follow this by writing to the Club secretary and state their grievances in a polite manner. This would not inflame officials but help them to understand where they might be able to help by taking some action and by good communication with the fans.
It is common sense that 99% of the fans would retain trust in Mr Wenger if only he and the club had a better idea of how to communicate!
Mr Wenger is his own worse enemy and it is a shame, he should have realised Arsenal fans hold a pride in not being unfair to their Managers.
All he had to do was to apologise that he left it too late to hire a new keeper nothing would have molified the fans more. Instead he is always giving silly reasons for poor results and that only inflames passionate fans.
He could come out now and admit it was silly not to go for a top league place in the champions(which it is,nt)cup and thus would have avoided Barcelona!
A BIG MAN is never afraid to admit mistakes and his critics appreciate and respect that.
But some people are stubborn and this is sometimes helpful to their success and they fear that their whole philosiphy will collapse if they weaken.
Its really sad that Mr Wenger does not engage some coachs on the basis that he expects them to voice opinions he dos,nt want to hear, but can think about.
Regards Ticket prices: This covers the whole immoral money being paid to players and the lack of any “consumer” protection for football customers.
What other business could charge you up front a year ahead?
The answer is write to your MP and ask him why the Govt has allowed the FA to be so inefficient and the Premier league to be taken over by exploiters. Why should the Govt not use their tax powers to put the wind up the Clubs and TV unless they accept some sort of Charter drawn up by the MPs are supposed to supervising unfair trading. What has been more unfair than the Clubs build up by their fans money being flogged off to greedy speculators.
The Arsenal board don,t as i see it have a record of putting much money in but they certainly have taken a lot out!
Your final paragraph is the key one and I agree with all that you say in you article.
Like Steve, I wasn’t even aware of the article, and I must say that in his usual frank and no-nonsense style, Mr T has hit right at the heart of the issue.
Without the Manager and PHW bollocks in there, I would have been inclined to say “fair enough – but I don’t need to get involved in any march to convey these comments”.
With the “silly” stuff in there, I immediately become more suspicious and critical of the whole affair and Steve’s “No shit Sherlock” echoes my thoughts.
I’m inclined to think that the nutters who were sitting with me in Barcelona, who:
– threw all sorts of shit over the netting designed to keep nutters out (up until then, I hadn’t thought that included Arsenal fans, but they certainly justified the existence of the nets)
– decided to pull the netting down in full view of Spanish police
will be right at the head of this particular march having thought it all through thoroughly, just as they did in Barcelona, before stepping out in style.
Include me OUT of this piece of futility. If Kroenke has any sense, he’ll be otherwise engaged in the US with one of his other franchises on that day.
Agree wholeheartedly with tonights blog ‘holic, I’ll have a guinness thanks and if I may I’d like to add my tuppence worth.
Blogger is right, as most always. Who are these people? They don’t speak for most Arsenal finds I know. The consensus I’m getting is that people want questions answered next season but we’re Arsenal and we’ll roll with the punch’s. I mean black scarf’s??? Seriously?
You’ve already taken apart the press release, enough said as far as I’m concerned.
This whole think stinks.
Anyways I best be off ‘holic before I shoot the grotesquely ugly bear shaped elephant thats in the room. . .
Thanks for the read, very sane.
Hate long comments so I’ll try to keep this sweet!
Whatever your opinions about the club may be, the fans/supporters/enthusiasts at Arsenal home games are a disgrace. This has been building, but this season has been the worst I’ve seen. So bad frankly I’m embarassed. Whether this added pressure has affected our team’s performances is up to you to decide.
And all this insecurity and need to prove oneself is simply tragic. Get over it, you’re more arsenal than me. Good for you, you pathetic little man. Except you’re probably lying, hence why you feel so insecure π
Anyway, there will always be idiots. Which is what makes blogs like this stand out.
I am a fan from afar… I have only been to Highbury once and stopped by Emirates while it was being built.. I have followed Arsenal for many years now and only know the depths of what goes on from reading passionate blogs like yours and Arseblog (Cheers Blogs)… I appreciate your insight and I just wanted you to know that with the problems we seem to be having as a club, it’s writings like this that help me understand what is really going on…. Please keep it up.. thanks for your sensible take on things.. and Cheers to better days, and trophies to come…
cheers from Tulsa, Oklahoma
Chad
As a fan from afar, I cannot opine on this I’m afraid
Informative read, thanks ‘holic
I would be against anything that will split the fans in two
I can’t speak for him, but if anybody could speak for me, I’d give that ‘holic man my voice with no hesitation.
Thank you again for a great and sensible blog!
Mine’s a coffee right now.
Another excellent blog sir. I agree with you.
I’ll have a drop of Jameson 1780 please barman.
arseblogger: “It might sound odd coming from βarsebloggerβ but enough people know me, and can find me if they want me.”
I doesn’t sound the least bit odd to me. You and I have never met and I think this is the first time I have ever addressed you, but your real name isn’t particularly hard to find out for anyone who wants to (after all it’s been published in at least one national broadsheet paper and your first name is often mentioned in the Arsecasts) and you don’t exactly try to hide. For example, it took me about five seconds to even find a picture of you using google and if anything your alias has made you even more well-known since it is quite unique.
As for the press release, what started out so well in a constructive manner (the unreserved seating area is a good idea, for example) just fell apart completely from the “Commercial activity” section and onwards. SteveT summed it up so well: “We want everything cheaper and we want better players???? No shit Sherlock.”.
I’m sorry, protesters, but that’s how I feel. That last paragraph about world class players and the ability for further revenue generation is just silly and out of touch with reality. Where does this idea come from? The financial benefits of being a bit more successful is vastly overrated – if it was that simple, then why did Barcelona have to borrow Β£120m just to pay wages? They are possibly the best team ever in the history of the game, but they are bleeding money by the bucketloads every minute despite having won more in the past two years than perhaps any club has ever won in a two-year period. And as for “it’s widely reported and felt that one or two world class additions to the squad can help us achieve this”… please! Do you think that the board will go “oh, I had no idea that better players could improve our team, jolly good thing they had this protest march, right chaps?”?
Great reading as always ‘holic!
As a Gooner sitting here in India, I can identify with a movement or march seeing as we keep having them every day in some part of the country and have a history littered with them.
What I will NOT stand for, however, for it to be based on the whims and fancies of a (as the Arseblogger puts it) ‘Faceless Organisation’ that will invariably end up deepening the chasm between all us Gooners..when we are all supporting the same cause..The Arsenal.
People need to be reminded of the bigger picture.
Cheers!
It’s too early for the club’s season analysis but it’s already very clear you have outdone yourself this season `Holic. This post is simply fantastic and given your current inspiration I really hope we’ll get the luck to read you after our overdue victory over the Mancs rather than such sad topics. The PR is just that. PR with its usual share of demagogy. Unfortunately for them they seem to share the same terrible sense of timing as the club.
@James: Dein had some genius strokes like the appointments of George Graham and Arsene Wenger you mentioned but that was in the 80s and 90s. He went on to sell his shares to a racketeering mobster, suspected of much, whose fortune has been built entirely on crime. And as you could guess with such a pedigree he is a Manc fan to boot. At this point claiming that Dein has had Arsenal best interests at heart in the last decade and would be the right person to lead the club is beyond ridiculous, it’s offensive.
@Limpars Wand: You’re making an unwarranted link between our terrible home support (and yes I’m just back from a trip in quite many places and we do have that reputation) and the home supporters themselves. Granted there is a minority of closet Spuds but the majority is undoubtedly behind the team, everyone in his own way, a shout there and there or some angst-ridden mumbling. I went to the Emirates for the first time season and despite my best intentions I got drawn into the weird atmosphere. Our football was just OK that day (it was against WH), we won but it was anti-climactic at crowd level.
Recently I had the privilege to attend a Seattle Sounders game. The contrast is stark. Only 15K or so fans but the atmosphere was great. I got a leaflet with songs to sing, some guys (no idea if they were club staff or volunteers) signaled when to sing and the end result was a great crowd togetherness and a very decent volume and intensity throughout the game. I certainly felt much more like a supporter than I did at the Emirates which is pretty amazing considering the quality of football on display was on par with St Mirren – St Johnstone.
There’s no denying our home support is terrible but it’s not a fatality since there’s certainly the desire and goodwill within the fans to make this the best support in the country. If the club still fails to see the value in a small effort to organize the support, it’s up to the supporters themselves. It may sound revolutionary but on this size of the pond one never ceases to marvel at what 100 organized individuals can achieve. It doesn’t take that much and it’s totally within reach. If disgruntled people can set up a web site to complain about ticket prices, the chairman, the manager and the weather, it shouldn’t be much harder to set up a site to pump up the home support. Who’s up for it?
(Edited by ‘holic. Easy on the unproven allegations please Matt)
Damn that’s some posting. Cheers, ‘holic, very good stuff.
@Limpars: and apologies for the long comment. Care to share a pint of homebrew (my upcoming hobby)?
Lars, don’t stalk me dude!
‘Holic,
A critical post at a crucial time, I think that you deserve a huge pat on the back from The Club for that.
Spookily, I had wandered onto the ‘Black & Gold’ site yesterday for the first time and was going to ask your opinion but was concerend about setting cats among pigeons.
Agree with all the sentiments in your post. The messages coming from WHAOG, whilst I’m guessing are well intentioned in the main, are not clear enough and call into play too many issues at once. To me, they come across as a little too ‘Wenger out’ but I could be misunderstadning them. I think a clearer, simpler and better thought through set of objectives might garner them more support.
Lars @ 49,
Another top response from you, have you thought about having your own blog? π I find myself agreeing with every carefully chosen word again. FYI, I met Blogs very briefly before/after the Blackburn game at The Tolli and he came across as a very decent bloke, good fun too as you’d expect.
Cheers all, some top debate going on.
Holic. Interesting post. I’m not sure where I sit on this issue though. I too was embroiled in the trials and tribulations of 1991 (although I never saw reference to black scarfs as part of a movement, despite being a season ticket holder and regular subscriber to various fanzines..?). Anyway, there is surely not a single Arsenal blog anywhere that does not have a sizeable proportion of the readership who believe that the club needs some significant change. For some, that means wholesale changes to personnel. For others (like me) it is less about that, and more about a change in philosophy (defensive coaching, proven signings, tactical nous) which can all be achieved with Arsene in place. However, without pressure to actually make that change, a large number of people are worried that things will continue unchecked next season. Citeh are likely to be an even stronger force, and Liverpool and Spurs will remain ambitious. This movement therefore is at least a start. We may not agree with all their points or their methods (although if I understood you correctly you agree with a large part of it), but the mood of the fans is now finally taking on some kind of affirmative action. This may encourage other fan groups to take on different approaches which are more palatable to different sections of the supporters. As for pitting gooner against gooner, well, since when has opinion among football fans been anything other than divided? Eboue – cult hero or liability?
arseblogger @ #54,
Careful, vikings were reknowned hunters! π
One of my great formative experiences was being charged by police horses outside Highbury while protesting against the sacking of Don Howe in 1984. Formative in the sense that it was something pretty alien to the nice middle-class schoolboy I was at that time, and formative too in that it taught me that the club generally know how to run things better than the average fan does. If they had listened to us then, there would have been no George Graham, no 1989 etc, and 1-0 wins in front of 17,000 people would have continued.
It’s telling that that website claims to have been there for the best part of year, but that this is the first I had heard of it despite being a season ticket holder, going to a fair few away games and being reasonably well plugged in online too.
Arsenal fans already have a reputation as being spoilt brats among other football fans, and these muppets (despite making some fair points about ticketing as others have said) really do cement that impression. Which other clubs does anyone think are actually run better than Arsenal? Man U, where everybody genuinely hates the owner? Chelsea/Man City? playthings of the mega-rich which will economically cease to exist once they get bored of them? Tottenham where they have had about a manager a year for the last ten and just celebrated the 50th anniversary of winning the league?
And harking back to David Dein who wanted us to schlep to Wembley every week and sold his shares to possibly the nastiest man (amidst tought competition) to even think about getting involved in English football.
I keep being reminded of Charlton fans who got fed up with Curbishley because he kept finishing mid-table, got rid of him and ended up two divisions down before they paused for breath. Be very very careful what you wish for.
TS – I’m sure Lars is a friendly viking.
I’ll keep some ale and a side of meat aside all the same.
I`ll have a rum coke.
Good post.
Not sure I agree with your criticism of David Dein, but I also think that PHW is a good bloke.
Lars, IΒ΄m going to second True StoreyΒ΄s remark. Get your own blog up… then people can stalk you π
Having just read View From N5’s blog today I have to say it was an excellent deconstruction !
I have pretty much the same fear about a misrepresented backlash by the media and the ‘ Wenger Out ‘ brigade section of our own fans.
People should realise that Big Sam Allerdyce is still out of work and looking for his next managerial appointment.
It’s a sobering thought, eh ?
Excellent post holic,
After reading the press release I can’t help but agree with all the points mentioned about ticket pricing, the ticket initiatives and the stadium seating.
Its just a shame they then let themselves down by the second section. I do not doubt they would have almost 100% support had they just ran with the first section.
Football is a game of opinions, this group would do well to remember that. We don’t all support the same ideas on the manager and chairman, and I’m pretty sure most people don’t want them represented in a protest.
I’ll have a Cider!
Wow Holic you’ve got all the big Guns in here today (Get it?)
Anyway, the protest? Well everyone knows my thoughts about our clubs motto
It’s the knowledgeable heads of today like you in the bar headed by our great host who are the future of this great club
Someone said a couple of days ago that they didn’t think Arsene or the lads read blogs.
Well word gets around fast as it always has! π
Holic I reckon you’ve read View Fron N5? Because after reading both posts I wonder who ripped off who? Which blog was posted first? Because they are virtually the same blog,very interesting indeed! You go on about not being a season ticket holder but are a humble silver member,well that virtually gets you a ticket for every home game if you wish to go without having to pay a big wedge every year only silver membership fee,correct? So I dare say that suits you just fine as you live in the West country? So I really doubt you would take up a season ticket if it was offered but you give the impression you really want one,how false. And it is no surprise that you are against any form of protest and also no surprise that your chum arseblogger is on here hugging and kissing you as usual. I really despair.
You sound jealous Gaz…..
That gaz is a geezer, aint he now!
Great post ‘holic.
And you made Gazza despair, which was nice.
arseblogger: what, so just because I am camped out in your garden and follow you from a distance wherever you go then all of a sudden I am a stalker? Pfft, some people are just SO sensible these days…
TS: actually, I have sometimes toyed with the idea of having a blog of my own, but I probably wouldn’t have the energy to keep it going for a sustained period of time. I’ll just stick to posting drinks and running up a massive bar tab in here π
Hi Holic, thanks for some well thought out views and for starting a sensible debate.
I personally agree with their thoughts on ticket prices and can see where they’re coming from on others but unless they put together a business plan on how to make the club more commercially competitive or put together a scouting report on targets – i.e. back up there ideas and show real insight rather than just regurgitating the clichΓ©s of the media – then they are falling into the age old trap of thinking you know better than the experts.
In addition, regardless of whether WHOAG are right, a protest is meant to be about protesting something specific. Itβs not a chance to walk about in a group spouting your opinions for the sake of it. By this I mean that they need a definitive goal in mind for the protest. If that is simply to raise awareness of the fans frustrations then fine. If it is to gain more fan representation on the board then fine (in fact with Kroenke becoming the majority shareholder this would be a perfect time for that). If they want to have the Chairman ousted (I massively disagree with this and think the way they have approached it is highly disrespectful to someone who has devoted his life to the club but other people can have their opinion) then it is a goal. It is something specific to protest against. But I don’t see a consistent goal in their press release.
Once the game has ended and the crowds have disbanded how will they judge whether it was worthwhile? If PHW steps down but ticket prices still go up will that be a success? What about if the manager buys two international players but PHW is given a page in the match program to write his thoughts every week? Would they be happy then? If the club pay no attention whatsoever but there’s a five second clip on BBC News will they be chuffed with themselves?
While every free citizen has a right to protest and voice their opinion I don’t believe that this protest speaks on behalf of anyone other than a small minority who are defined not by their background or their commitment to Arsenal but purely by their opinion! They have a lack of group background and they have no specific plan for how to go forward. Is this what they think is progress?
If there was a protest demanding a rethink of plans to increase season ticket prices I would go. I’m not a season ticket holder but I agree that it is the wrong decision at this point in time. The same applies to other potential ideals.
But I won’t be going to this protest. I hope it ends up being five people walking their dog around the ground while the rest of the fan base focuses on supporting Arsenal in the best way they – as individuals and as a group – can.
Victory Through Harmony
Sorry for the long comment. Got a bit wound up by the end π
I agree with ‘holic on all his points.
Agree with almost everything on the season ticket part more should be done to help people pay if they want a ticket. The installments is a great idea for example but enough to march over?
The price issue is complicated. Everyone would like things cheaper and Arsenal is very expensive. I would love to be able to go to more games both home and away but just can not afford to. But the underlying thing is that the price level has been set and has proved to be correct as that is the price people are willing to pay. Also price is no link to what you get at the end. The amount you pay in no way gurantees you a victory. When you buy a ticket you pay to go watch the game win, lose or draw and support the team. Its like if I go to a gig there is no gurantee that the gig is going to be great or that the singer’s voice won’t falter that is the risk you take.
On the rise it depends on the level but with VAT going up 2.5% then everything has risen, and Arsenal would not be the only company to increase prices by more than 2.5%.
Agree with the law on the kit issue and said the same on twitter. We have white and blue away kits long before yellow and blue was worn, and it would be close between white and yellow and blue as to which away kit has been worn longer.
My final gripe with the movement is that when you ask them a question you get no real answer, the main response I have seen is if you think everything is rosy at Arsenal then you are deluded. That is not the best response to get people on side and I don’t think many people do say everything is rosy, just not bad enough to march against yet.
They also are now saying it is not a protest, then what is the march in aid of?
Also what is “Our Arsenal” they speak of? Would they be happy if they paid less money and the club was a middle of the road Premiership club?
Amazing Gaz. Truly gobsmacking in fact.
Heh, Jackster, nice one! π
well while i agree with some point (match ticket price ,access to ticket ) the letter turn in Le Moan blog article.
the same supporter who say PHW should be remove because he call some fan idiot should loose access to the stadium because they pass their time insulting our player,staff and board.
i think it s fair this is a two way punishment. if you go in the restaurent and a staff insult you he will be sack,if a customer insult a staff he will be kick and ban.
for the finacial view ,yes i agree but we are block with by the Emirate deal who was good deal at the time but now look very weak if you compare with other club shirt and stadium sponsor
And anyway ,it s not their club ,it s Stan club now .people need to stop dreaming that they own a club,they dont they are customer who follow a iressitible religion AKA a football club.
Why are so many people seemingly affronted by this? These guys aren’t advocating any kind of demo inside the ground or during the game, so the team should not feel less supported, bless ’em. Some people have rightly pointed out some flaws in the the WHOAG thinking, so maybe they will evolve their opinions as more people join the debate. As I have said previously, I dont share all their views but I do think we need some kind of change and if this is the first step, and it remains non-violent, then good luck to them. They have a right to air their views as much as any other person. I am a bit surprised though at the idea voiced on many blogs that the time for raising issues is after the season ends. What’s the point of that? Who would be there to listen??
Guys. I am going to ask one final time before I really get the arse. Will fans of this wonderful club stop continually knocking the home support. The reason the support has such a poor reputation is the continual perpetuation of the myth. Of course is could be better, it can be better at every ground in the country. Of course there are idiots. You are always going to find a few in a gathering of 60,000. In that number you will find a lot of people who have differing opinions and some at are vocal in expressing them. But the support in general is not that bad. At times it has been electric.
So please, pretty please, pretty please with knobs on, stop having a go at those of us that turn up week in week out. It has gone on far too long. I for one feel bored and insulted by the continued comments saying how rubbish we all are.
Sorry for the moan but I have really had enough now. Do we really want to add to the divide?
well they talk about protesting for the last 2 year, and i have yet to see anyone doing it.last time it was for the emirate cup but i was there and none turn up again.
if they keep all talk nobody will take them seriously really
steve our home support is really rubbish,the stadium become alive only when we score and leading ,but when our team is down the atmosphere is very bad and it turn to insulting our player or worst silence.i can only imagine what would be our home form if our home supporter would act like our FANTASTIC away supporter,pushing and getting behind our team.
I agree with unbelievable @ 74 none of us quite know how this little gathering will evolve before the 15th and points will get defined better over the next couple of weeks. But I say if you feel strongly about something and want to go about it in a non threatning manner then fair play to you I will listen to both sides before I make up my mind about attending and it will be my choice to do so as a paying season ticket holder you might diagree but it’s my right. I also think change is needed if we are to move on from this seasons latest shambles and why should we have to put up with decisions rail roaded in by the board when it effects us financially?? Also if we are upset with the way the club is being run and don’t see change happening as promised just how do we make ourselves be heard.
I agree not in the stadium, but surely before or after a game is the time?
Captain morgan and coke for me, Ta
Since these ‘Where’s blahblahblah’ types have been around for a while, perhaps they’re just trying to surf over the current wave of frustration/discontent to see if they can gather a following, and put in a melting pots of revendications, some that may make sense, along with some more ridiculous ones.
The National Front of football support? π
REVENDICATION, civil and Belgium law. An action by which a man demands a thing of which he claims to be owner. It applies to immovables as well as movables; to corporeal or encorporeal things.
You spoil us today, Jackster.
All these people speaking on your behalf, you have to feel empowered! π
You know how much I love our spokespeople Ollie
Your spot on mate, I’m a supporter of 43 years and buy 2 season tickets each year for myself and my son, so the parts on season ticket I on the whole agree with.
I’m as upset as the next supporter how this year has fizzled out. However, the digs at our manager and Mr Hill-Wood are uncalled for, each week I have idiots next to me moaning about our manager and his policies they boo and moan, although this didn’t happen when we beat Barca or Chelsea for that matter.
I’m not blinkered and I critise but I have never booed my team or any player in the red and white, we are supporters and I cheer them on in the hope it has a postive effect. Moaning and booing is hardly going to make them play better is it??
I won’t be sporting the black and gold scarf, like someone mentioned earlier it’s a bit too green and yellow for my liking.
Nice piece ‘holic.
I too was unaware of any such protest before reading this article. I understand the iratation at yet another rise in ticket prices, my understanding is that our fans already pay the highest prices in the PL, so I get were they’re coming from. I however will/can not condone the personal attacks on two Arsenal legends.
When I was a kid it was his father Denis at the helm, but since his passing in 1982 PHW has been in the hotseat and has always done right by the club. No matter how disapointed we may all feel with the capulation of our season, is now really the time to start flinging feces at our manager? A manager who has brought us such success and guided us through a transitional period on financial restrictions, still keeping us within touching distance of the elite??
I think not. The season is still in full swing and precious points are still up for grabs. The last thing our beloved club needs is a media circus which will no doubt have the anti- Arsenal hacks drooling in their troughs.
Steve T.@ 75.
I unfortunatly don’t get much opportunity to get over, but I follow every game live on the box. From what I hear, it sounds to me like the majority of the fans are behind the team as I can cleary hear the Arsenal chants.
Many reminice about how great it used to be, but I can cleary remember hearing shocking abuse being hurled at our players from sections in the crowd at Highbury, so it’s not an “Emirates thing”.
A round for the bloggers and the true fans please barkeep.
Cheers.
arseblogger @ #59,
Heh! Just cut of its horns, wipe its ar*e and put it on a plate. Come to think of it, it would great if we could the same to SAF this weekend…. apart from the ar*ewiping bit of course *throws-up at thought*
Lars @ #68,
If you ever change your mind, please let me know. In the meantime, a pint of lager please!
Ollie & Jackster @ various,
Great interchange, really made me snigger esp. the revendication thing. Clever!
More drinks please Barman and one for yourself. Lars’ tab needs topping up π
No protest marches for me, too many issues, but the main reason is that even if only 30 blokes turn up, the media will be reporting it as a frenzied turn out from the people who have had enough of AW.
Plus also, my world has been shattered, I never knew that Arsebloggers real first name wasn’t Arse π
Gt @ #63
Interesting….
I posted here a couple of days ago saying that I was convinced that someone in Ivan’s team would be taking the temperature of the blogs (well those that count, anyway) on a regular basis and providing feedback to him and his team. I also said that we should exercise care in what we write because, combined, we do make a difference.
I’ll stand by that until someone can prove otherwise.
Tea? Evian? Or something stronger for you today? π
This protest is ridiculous. Complaining about the commercial deals?(the ones that struck cut under Dein and Edelman).
What do they expect? They think that the club is satisfied with these deals and has no intentions to improve them, but when they see the protest they get a new sponsorship deal for more money right away?
That’s the protesters’ plan?
The club is tied up with the Emirates until 2014. They would want more money, but they can’t do anything.
If you want to improve the Emirates deal, then protest in Dubai in front of the Emirates HQ with your black scarves, because they are the only one who can change those deals.
The ones about Wenger and PHW are insulting and disrespectful. It almost cry for a counterprotest in the defense of AW.
Demanding the purchase of world-class players?
I’ve been so proud that we are not like Real Madrid and Milan, where the fans protest to sign superstarts and where the presidents win the supporters by promising them Beckham and C. Ronaldo in the campaign…
The only result of this protest will not be a more successful Arsenal, but a divided fanbase, cause lot of supporters feel ashamed by them.
And the only winner will be the press which can make headlines out of it for the whole summer.
As expected the news filtering through that Arsenal are getting ready to sell Cesc Fabregas.
Cannot get myself to have anything other than love for our captain. I think he has served the club well. But this simply is the biggest sign that project youth has taken us as far as it can take us.
I have but one request to the powers that be at Arsenal and Barcelona – Please make it quick and quiet. No drama. No BS.
I think the Season Ticket price thing is distorted by the fact we get 7 cup credits with ours as opposed to other clubs just including League games
Not saying they are not expensive mind
While WHOAG may have had some legitimate points in the early stages, their movement has been blended with/hijacked by (pick one) those elements I have opposed in every encounter over the past year or so, in online comments or in person. Therefore, to me, any good intentions that may still be found lurking within the group’s manifesto as it were have lost all meaning and significance. What we are left with is a growing, increasingly loud section of spoiled malcontent fans who have tired of venting their spleens in like-minded Arsenal blogs and have “organised” in an attempt to force the club to recognise their complaints.
I find the opening quote particularly relevant to the matter, particularly the line, “unbridged by constructive dialogue.” Those Arsenal fans I know who support the protest, when their views are challenged in the most objective and polite way, will react with derision and immediately brand those who disagree as mugs (decorum prevents me from listing the more choice names they bandy about, but suffice it that the most prevalent begins with a C and ends with Unts), such as the comment above from Gaz. This protest seems to me to be less about a legitimate redress of grievances and more about attention-seeking; I fear this will at best merely deepen the schism between segments of Arsenal fans, and at worst lead to actual trouble. I respect your views on this ‘Holic, and all those who were active in ’91, but from all I’ve heard out of WHOAG, this is mostly unrelated to that activism. Full of sound and fury and all that.
Pint of bitter please. I imagine it will go well with the taste this protest leaves in my mouth.
Hey Sajit
Good to see you in hear again.
If you’re wishing for no drama and no BS surrounding Cesc/Farca/Whoever, regardless of whether he stays or goes, then prepare for disappointment.
zico may be able to offer temporary relief via the medicine cabinet π
…. here even….
Lordgunner. Where do you sit?
Hello TS, π
Was a conscious decision to post very little last couple of weeks. Nevertheless, was always reading the blogs and the drinks.
I’m just gonna sit back and see how things work out.
Have you definitely relinquished the keys, TS? π
Holic has upset Gaz enough for him to get personal and throw in insults to Arseblogger for good measure – thats enough to convince me that Goonerholic is on the money with this post.
Some quality drinks above – congrats people.
At the risk of being typecast, I’ll have an Old Peculiar, barman.
TS – err, keys are in the post π
Players come and go, managers come and go, board of Directors come and go, but being a fan is a lifetime commitment. When Wenger says he’d be happy with 2nd place what does that say to the fans and more importantly the players? We are being treated as a commodity and shown little respect. You could argue that’s normal these days. However, I don’t hear Ferguson or Anchelotti saying 2nd is good enough. Wenger’s judgement is faulty, putting his faith in average players and not addressing the weakness’s in the team (which we all can see) is the managers job. What is more galling is that he allegedly had the money to spend. Tactical nievety and his insistence on playing only one way will be his downfall I believe. So perhaps the fans do have a right to have their voices heard, or is that being ‘silly’?
TS@ 86 –
Yeah I tend to stick to the softies as much I can when I’m in here. I wouldn’t like to be called an ‘English Alcoholic’ by someone who hasn’t even met me for half a day (sticking to Arsenes terminology) π
I’ve been on the Waters all day due to the temperature, so I’ll continue with that if it’s all the same with you kind sir!
On Lars’ tab so be it! π
Phil F. I don’t hear Wenger saying 2nd is good enough either. It’s a pure media fantasy.
He just said it wasn’t the end of the world.
Open bar on Lars’ tab? Poor Lars….
Evening all,
Thanks for all of your comments, even those who have expressed different sentiments to me with civility and respect. You are welcome, both to your opinion, and here.
If only those who profess to know someone they haven’t met, and obviously haven’t read what is written, would take a leaf out of your book.
Care in the community isn’t working.
@Steve T: Please stop making this a personal issue. Saying the home support is poor is not a dig at the supporters (at least not at 99% of them), and even if I agree that the UK press perpetuates the stereotype, the people who gave me their opinion in Turkey, Finland or South America don’t read it.
A random clip from the J-league: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_NTaz4pCho
No doubt you can notice/hear the difference?
It’s not in their blood because there American or Japanese. It’s because they’re organized. There are people in the stadium who lead, get them to sing when there’s a lull or the going gets tough for example.
We need to do the same thing. It would make a significant difference in all these home games where the team is wobbling. And the experience would be much better for the fans too.
After the Barca game you wrote “Just got back now. What a night. The grove was jumping.”
Let’s make the Grove rock in every game is all I’m suggesting.
Sigh.
…because they’re American or Japanese…
Actually looking forward to a game that dosent involve The Arsenal tonight think we may see a classic so best get a quick round in before kick off π
Phil F: “which we all can see”. It’s not “we all” it’s only you and a others who can’t bother to try and understand the constraints we’re operating under.
Not to say things couldn’t be done better but painting the current situation as a total failure like you do only reflects on your unwillingness to consider the hard cold fact that’s called money in the modern game.
Just so you get it: the latest AST report was that we had in the coffers 75% left of the sales of Toure and Adebayor, not all of it available as we have to plan for the red ink until the 10 year contracts unlock in 2014.
Pray tell, with a budget of 40-70% of our competitors, a transfer budget that’s only coming from player sales (in the last 7 years we made a profit on player transfers and not all of it is left in the coffers), could please enlighten us with your magic solution to make us champions?
I will say one thing about the Protest it seems to have got different factions debating the pros and cons in a mostly well mannered way which can only be a good thing in the long term of course there are some exceptions to that rule but that’s life,
The epitome of hypocrisy: seeing Dani Alves accuse an opponent of diving.
I’ll have a pint of John Smiths, please. Put in on my tab, it appears Ollie and others have already opened it up for me!
a classic? Goals 0, Dives 4, Imaginary Yellow Card waving 2, Barca players with hand round throat 2. Yawn
Yep been more El Damp Squid than El Classico roll on the second half tho,
Chippy – I was hoping you were going to be proved right, but watching Busquets pretending to be smacked in the face, has just reminded me how much I hate that cheating cnut. And there are about 10 of them out there who you could accuse of the same thing.
To think how Eduardo was hounded for a bona fide penalty.
Back to what I know best – beer. Lars, since you’re asking…..
Mourinhos set them up for a Georgie boy style 1-0 but not sure they’ve got a Wrighty to nick a goal from nothing π Reckon Ive spotted a talent we could pick up for pennies he goes by the name of Messi I think – must whisper in case any scouts are listening in π
Petulant little bastards aren’t they?
Supposedly Barca are the best team in the world. So why then do the referees feel the need to help them?
Great quote in the Guardian Live Text:
“When Arsenal play entertaining, but trophy-less, football people say they need to be more cynical and pragmatic. When these teams play cagey, cynical, trophy-winning football, people complain that they aren’t entertaining enough. Can we all just admit that this football/anti-football stuff is a metaphorical glass bottle to smash teams we don’t like in the face with? Anti-football is West Germany versus Austria in 1982, everything else is just dull football.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/apr/27/real-madrid-barcelona-champions-league-live
Damn that’s seen his price rocket from pennies to pounds π What a talent that boy is if he’s the beauty of the game Alves busquets and their ilk are the beast they are a disgrace and if UEFA have any bollocks whatsoever they will start to punish the serial rollover boys,
Maybe the Spanish press is right. Fabregas does want to play with Messi. Sign him up, Wenger. π
Heh, nice one Josh.
When was the last time an Arsenal player attacked the near post in the 6 yard box like LM did for their first goal?
Zicoinexile,
Wouldn’t be much point for our lot as our crosses tend to hit the corner flags π Just hope boy wonder does get a boggle before the final as that would be typical !!
Good lift Josh @ 113
Question for the night. Could Arsenal be the only English team to defeat Barcalona over 90 mins on British turf this year?
Why did Clint Dempsey score twice against Bolton when the entire Arsenal team were able to score only once? No, this is not one of the four passover questions! Barman, fermented grape juice please.
Mark, Try “Could Arsenal be the ONLY team to beat Barcelona in the CL this season period”.
And never forget, we were going through until that Swiss-German cuckoo clock building twat sent Robin off.
Holic, time you got back under the bonnet and changed your oil filter. I think the bi-sprocket decompression unit that is supposed to filche out duplicate posts might have done a Wayne Rooney on Auld Slapper.
BtM – it’s the dilithium crystals – the old girl cannae take it Captain.
Is it too early to say I want both Man Utd AND Barcelona to lose in the CL final?
BTM @121
Whilst i agree with your comments re the ‘ Swiss Miss ‘ plonker of a Referee,
Robin Redbreast has to take some of the blame for his silly provacative behaviour in the first half that resulted in a completely unneccessary booking.
Without that unprofessionalism,his 2nd booking becomes his first
and he stays on the pitch,and who knows,we may well have knocked the bunch of strolling Ham Actors out.
But now we will never know.
With a team worth less than half the cost of the Real Madrid side,that in the Home leg, hardly crossing the hafway line last night,we at least can console ourselves that WE gave the Fuckers the fright of their lives.!!!
Cheers
Street Fighting Man
after watching barcelona players rolling on ground looking like they have been shot & then remembering Eduardo’s penalty fracas; i sometimes feel that there is a conspiracy against us..just sometimes.
here’s a thought to chew on…r we the most hated team ever??
Fuck ’em all, fuck ’em all
United, West Ham, Liverpool
We are the Arsenal
We are the best
We are the Arsenal so fuck all the rest
Morning Holics,
Liking the general vibe around here at the moment
Yep you guessed it, green tea for me Barman please! π
Morning ‘Holic & ‘Holics,
So within the last 10 posts we’ve had the following topics raised: Star Trek, cuckoo clocks, religious festivals, The ‘Stones and classic Arsenal songs.
That’s why I love this place π
Clive @ #124,
Great post but language, please! π
Ollie @ #95,
See zico @ #96, I fear I may never see them or the contents of the MC again π
zico @ #96,
Yes, and my cheque for services rendered is also in the post. Great comments BTW, full of mirth. You? Typecast? Surley not.
Sajit @ #94,
Sounds v.sensible. Stay calm, stand firm.
Gt @ # 98,
And there was me thinking we were Gooner-Holics π
Cheers all, keep it coming….
Zico – my Deeply Indebted associates are more numerous and irksome than those standing at the Bus Stop. My sincere hope for the rest of the season is now:
Barcelona 5 Man IOU 0 in the CL final
Both Arsenal and Chelsea beat Manure in the league, Chelski go on to win it and ALL of Old Purple Nose’s blood vessels explode simultaneously like a hairdryer on heat.
Clive – that Keith Richard riff is sounding very very fine from here.
Hey BtM
I’m with you on Farca for the CL, it sort of vindicates our exit as in we got beaten by the eventual winners. Small mercy, I know.
Choosing between Manure or Chelski for the title though is like choosing between Fat Sam and Orange Phil as the next Arsenal manager. And no, I do not want Le Boss to go, far from it.
Enjoy the game on Sunday. A win should help to stem some of the navel contemplation and restore a little pride in a season where we have come close on many occasions without enjoying a single puff of the havana π
Yeah, I agree TS – it’s like being asked to choose your favourite pig.
Keys arrive yet?
Good afternoon all,
What suicidal topic shall I cover tonight? π
…and I agree with Esso.
zico @123, It is never too early to want Barcelona or Man Utd to lose, but knowing we have to face the Catalans less often and we are facing the Mancs in a few days I have put a stronger hex on old rednose and his tteam of reindeers. As Harry Potter once said, SECTUMSEMPRA!
‘Holic
How about a memory or two of great Arsenal vs Manure matches of the past. You do that sort of stuff so well. It would be semi-topical too given the BBC’s recent excellent drama on the Munich air disaster that took the lives of many of the Busby Babes.
And no, I’m not suggesting that you were old enough to have watched football form that era π
But we do have a regular here who might be tempted to share his thoughts and memories.
Just an idea….
TS @ 129-
Thatβs what I thought π
Although I may change my mind after the IOU game π
Here’s another little bit of irony considering the topic of the original ‘Holic post – Arsenal today announced the team for the Emirates Cup, and inside the article there is this little bit:
“Coinciding with the announcement of the line-up for this yearβs tournament, Arsenal Football Club is also delighted to announce that a three year extension has been signed with Emirates Airline, as title sponsor of the Emirates Cup until 2013.
As well as the contract extension with Emirates Airline, Arsenal has also signed a five year agreement with MP & Silva to distribute the broadcast rights to the tournament. These two new arrangements reflect the rapid growth of the Emirates Cup which is now considered the worldβs leading pre-season tournament.”
Now, hands up those who think the contract extension means we are getting less money from Emirates Airline than we were for the existing contract or who think we will be worse off for striking the deal with MP & Silva.
Most likely, this is just the beginning. I would not be the least bit surprised to hear of a re-negotiated stadium naming rights contract as well as the shirt sponsorship in the coming months.
Pint of Boddingtons, please!
Well done Lars, nicely researched. You can put that Boddies on my tab if you wish.
Tut tut! How many more CL scandals will follow Barca?
TV5 to play against Manure reserves tonight
Unfortunately he won’t make against the first team on Sunday
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/vermaelen-diaby-to-miss-man-united-clash?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arsenal-news+%28News+Feed%29
Afternoon all.
GT @139 The CL stuff – maybe I’m biased (but certainly not a fan), but does anyone SERIOUSLY think Barca as a club are responsible for questionable decisions? Outrageous pressure from the players, (stand up Mr Valdes), yes.
Thanks for some positive stuff Lars @ 137.
Keep calm and carry on….
TS,
Try this for starters and check Clive’s drink that follows…
http://goonerholic.com/2010/01/old-feelings-stirring-as-sol-prepares-to-get-to-grips-with-rooney/
zico, Choosing your favorite pig is not an unpleasant choice. Bacon or sausage. Oh wait, that’s choosing between parts of a pig. Never mind.
For me the lesser evil is Chelsea. First because them winning will mean that we beat Manure on Sunday. Second because then the media can spend the summer talking about Manure’s lack of mental strength instead of ours.
Had a very interesting meeting with a supplier earlier that also has dealings with Arsenal cannot say to much about that part but (Id verifiy myself via Holic if many think its a wind up as long as what was said remains private as i dont want to get this person into trouble) But lets just say certain people at Arsenal are not expecting the captain to be with us next year i know its no great earth shattering surprise but thought id share it, Oh and the New Captain is expected to be TV,
Chippy,
Hardly surprising news, but nonetheless very disappointing.
We had our chance this season to prove to Cesc we could win things and …oh yes… we didn’t…
Catalan,
I have to say I was utterly delighted to hear Pep put Jose in his box at the press conference. He was absolutely spot on in telling him where to go – and not only did he call his bluff by saying he’d do his talking on the pitch, Jose’s antics and style of play has left him irreparably damaged in my eyes despite all his achievements. I’d be amazed if Real keep him next season.
Having said that, I think the diving antics and simulation of players like pedro and alves seriously detracts from the wonderful football Barca play. While I dislike Old Red nose for his arrogant bullying ways, he must get enormous credit for taking a pretty mediocre MANU side to what will probably be another league title, and what looks like another CL final as well.
But I think that any self respecting football purist should want Barca to win another CL final. Its just a privilege to be able to watch a player of Messi’s magnificence. And for no other reason alone – a talent like his deserves all the accolade’s and rewards the game can offer to my mind.
I agree with the protest regarding fans’ treatment but only partially agree regarding the manager. I would like AW to make sure we win things and leave all financial issues to Gazidis.
I do not agree with the part on PHW.
I just hope this doesn’t bring the Emirates to be a battlefield between groups of Gooners who don’t share the same views.
Chippy @144 – I presume TV5’s captaincy will be dependant on having two working legs?!
Thanks for the info, however sad it is!
If the “news” is true, then I just hope we squeeze every Euro out of them that we can – Barca DNA doesn’t come cheap I’ve heard π
I assume “certain people” Chippy means a bit higher up the food chain than the kids at the check-out in The Armoury?
Sajit @ #s 91 & 94,
Chippy’s post @ # 144 should test your nerve nicely π
The Wasp @ #145,
There is an alternative view i.e. how about The Captain proving to his team that he can drag them over the line? Either way, I suspect very few really want him to go (inc. me). He is a fantastic player, of that can be no doubt, but I also suspect there’s a couple of million blog comments to go before we know the outcome for sure.
zico @ #149,
Agreed but can they really afford him? Seriously…
TS, They can afford him if they give us Messi π
I still see Cesc staying. Maybe that’s just because I’m on the HT, but I’m hopeful. He’s been massive for us this season, and Wenger is sure to be keen on keeping him.
Joshua
I like your style….
I also thought Cesc would/will stay. I always got the feeling it was last summer or bust for Farca and that wretched DNA.
One ‘however’. I don’t think this has been a vintage season for Cesc. Lots of niggly hammy injuries haven’t helped and in several games that I’ve been to (even the LWCs away) I’ve thought he ended up looking just a little disinterested. Just a personal observation, nothing more.
Let’s start the Lionel Messi has London DNA in his blood (from god knows where) campaign. Every player to whine endlessly to the press about how Lionel WILL come to N.London. π
‘Holic @ #142 & Dr. W,
Thanks. I see that you’ve both been there, done that and worn the T-Shirt. Great posts but I guess that you won’t want to be repeating yourselves.
Look forward to the next posts though, whatever they may bring.
TS @ 150 – depends on the size of fine imposed by Uefa after last night’s behaviour π
Dr z,
What? Thrupence ha’penny and a bag of chips?
(Er, that’s not really gonna translate for non-UK ‘Holics. Apologies.)
TS’ obsession with the medicine cabinet makes doctors out of everyone! π
Dr. C
Cruel…. but true! π
…. but I’d better not refer to ‘Holic as Dr.H (phnaar)
And for the record, zico was a self-proclaimed Dr. z
Yip – of the quackiest kind π
See!!!!
Zicoinexile,
I cannot say to much but it seems the club are prepared for life without him and decisions have been made on who takes over that position should he leave, Hardly unexpected and a shame but it seems he’s been a bit diva ish behind the scenes since last summer with certain obligations but you never know transfers break down all the time but if the cash is presented he will be gone. I wish I had some interesting good news and if I do hear out I’ll let you know,
I remember the Terry Neill/Don Howe divide back in 83. Can’t remember which game it was, but it came to blows in the North Bank after the game.
I’m all for keeping prices down, red and white home kits, yellow and blue away kits, sensible investment on key areas of our squad, maintaining our identity as a quality run club, communication with supporter groups etc, but this protest seems directly related to a lack of on-pitch success.
CoYRRR’s
Cheers Chippy
whilst I would be disappointed if he goes, life goes on.
The last player that I got really upset about leaving was Ray Kennedy (I was about 13) but since then have always accepted that the players come and go but the Club goes on forever.
He’s ours until it happens, so he’ll continue to get my support.
On a lighter note for the afternoon/evening, Henry is looking at a return to the Emirates:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13223733.stm