Gunners A Draw In China
Jul 16th, 2011 by 'holic
Some close season games catch the imagination. I’m sure to the vast Chinese television audience the game with Hangzhou Greentown was unmissable. Arsenal have conquered Asia, it would appear, but a score draw is bound to prompt more critical reviews back home.
One cannot dispute the fact that a weakened Arsenal starting eleven showed some old failings against set piece plays from the hosts. A squad goalkeeper and squad defender will be highlighted, I’m sure. We were somewhat fortunate to only be a goal down when Carlos Vela provided the desired close to the half, tapping in after van Persie had been denied.
The second half saw a different eleven produce a much more dominant performance, but Theo Walcott provided the response to his own pre-match claims to a central striking berth with some missed opportunities. It was one of those days, but provided more match action for a number of players who needed it, and one or two who hopefully may be earning their corn elsewhere in the coming year.
The tour was something that allegedly was foisted on the manager, but Arsene has been one of the major players in charming a continent in the last week. Only those at Highbury House will be able to attach an accurate value to the trip, but on the playing front many questions remain unanswered.
Predictions for the coming season on the basis of what we have seen in the last few days would be clearly absurd. The promised changes in personnel have still to play out. Some who got a unique sightseeing opportunity may be adding to the stamps in their passport in the coming days.
I am pleased, however, that Arsene is firing back at Mancini for his blatant tapping up of Nasri, and Xavi for his proclamations about our captain. I would still be surprised to see both start September in an Arsenal shirt, but I would be delighted. Both would make us far more likely to challenge for honours than we would be without them.
Who will be wearing the shirt in Cologne next week? That is the question that will now occupy many minds in the coming days. With Arsene and the management team back in London I’m sure there will be some concerted efforts to strengthen those parts of the squad where we have obvious weaknesses.
At the same time they will also be available to prospective purchasers of those we would not mind moving on. Will this be the week when finally things start to take shape for the coming season?
Let’s hope so.
262 Responses to “Gunners A Draw In China”
I have an answer to our Backup problem for Song.
Egidio Arevalo. I fell in love with him and Diego Perez at the World Cup last summer.
Now that’s an enforcer.
If not him, then Carlos Sanchez of Colombia would do as well.
I’m all for Uruguay today, hate Messi and anyone related Barca to death.
(Although I wouldn’t mind getting Higuain π )
Squad changes this week ? π
One ball through the two CBs and Hangzhou were in on goal. Fortunately we were saved by the post.
Moments later, a free kick beats our retreating back line, rebounds from the keeper’s stomach for the hosts to roll home.
A summer of reflection and learning ?
I nearly fell off the HT Mk II.
I know it’s only the second pre-season friendly, but sometimes you could really primally scream.
By the way, Peter Hill-Wood is now lost somewhere near the Austria – Turkey border, and is not expected back for some time.
Looks like you won Tabs.
Holic
Taking anything fron the 2 games is ridiculous I agree. The players havent even worked on tactics, formations yet, just fitness work so far. That stuff will follow. And for me that as much as new signings is the key to, success or otherwise this season.
I’d love nothing more than for us to sign 4 more players, but I just cannot see it.
Mancini’s comments show that it hasnt taken long for the money to turn City into a bunch of classless chavs.
Snir
I like Arturo Vidal, but I dont quite love him yet! He can play in a variety of positions, including Defensive Midfield.
To be honest I haven’t seen Arturo Vidal so can’t really say, but you know what? I’m not even sure anymore we’re gonna buy a whole lot, so I’d rather the acquisition be a CB.
Trev, Peter Hill-Wood being lost near the Austria-Turkey border truly sounds like a never never land in that I don’t believe they currently share a border and probably haven’t since at least the days of the Ottoman Empire if even then?
Little bit pissed so I shall be brief .
Holic , great write up as per norm , would like to say more on todays training exercise , but just too wankered .
Trev , I knew it ! got you at 5-2 odds on favourite at the local bookies and cleaned up π
Dr Z from the last drinks , quality minutes mate , great stuff π
The most overrated player in Premier League history has just been sent off.
Mascherano, you’re a sack of shit.
π nice one Snir .
Most overrated player imho – Carragher .
Scott parker is working his way up that list though!
The match this morning did not give me a boost, although I’m encouraged by Ramsey.
Is Rosicky one of the players we’re talking about when we’re hoping some of them will leave. In my feed of the match he did not look up for it.
nasri @7 – you could well be right there. Think I meant Hungary -that’s probably why he’s lost.
Snir – sometimes I get the impression you don’t like Barcelona very much ?
Trev, You are correct I believe. Snir indeed does not like Barcelona.
Me? Don’t like Barca? Why would you think that?! π
God, I’m so happy. I was jumping up and down almost like the FA cup shootout in 05.
Trev, Hungary makes you geographically correct but I preferred the Turkey-Austria border for its never never land quality. π
‘holic, You are not the only one who is glad AW is finding his voice in criticism of Mancini and Xavi and their verminous like. If our manager won’t defend the Arse, who will? Peter Hill-Wood? Wolfgang Smallballs?
Good post ‘holic.
Most overrated EPL footballer has to be Rooney. People make us believe he’s in the same class with messi and ronaldo. 90 minute stricker at a club like united but will never bag the golden boot. I know, you are saying how about the season before last, well thats about the only season he managed to score more than his own subs.
Wow, this can be a very intersteing debate.
Who do you think is the most overrated player in the EPL in the last 20 years?
Who do you think is the most underrated player in the EPL in the last 20 years?
Who do you think is the CURRENT most overrated/underrated players is?
And who do you think is the most overrated/underrated player in the HISTORY of the EPL and of the English league (before the EPL was formed).
Now we have finished prostituting ourselves around Asia let us all hope that the real preparations for the new season can start.
Re Cesc and Sami I must say that I will be surprised if either are at the club come September. Like you I hope both are, but I just have this feeling. I just hope we do not leave it all to the last minute.
Here’s to an interesting week head……. Hopefully.
Steve T – I feel ya. I have the same feeling. I don’t really mind replacing Nasri with Mata, but I’d be absolutely devastated to see Cesc leave with only one trophy.
And I do think that with him, no matter who’s playing in defense we are title contenders as long as he’s an Arsenal player (assuming he can get himself fit).
I am feeling rather underwhelmed with the situation at arsenal.come on wenger a signing or resolving of the cesc and nasri situations quickly won’t hurt,will it?Hope something gets done this week.
Morning all. Have I missed anything whilst away? No? Oh…
Steve T – I’m with you. Would be very surprised if either are here in Sept. Like Snir, I can live with Nasri going if replaced, in fact I would encourage it. Cesc – I would accept as inevitable and say thanks…. again, suitable quality would need to be bought to lessen the blow, but not necessarily a direct replacement. If for no other reason than this would be nigh on impossible.
Now, can someone give me a summary of the HT activities for the past few days please?
Snir. I just think that there is a real air of negativity surrounding the club st the moment, and I hear nothing from within that seems to want to change that. We are rapidly getting reputation as a nearly team. A stepping stone to bigger and better things. That should not be the way.
Clichy has given an interview and said some really poignant things. He can not be the only one thinking that. Forbes has listed us as the 7th wealthiest sports franchise in the world. There is no excuse anymore to be also rans. Sadly, I see little in the way in attempts to change that. I know the window has 6 weeks to go but I would rather have our seasons preparations in far better shape than a few extra fans and a few more pound notes in the bank account from a trip to Asia.
It seems we’ve signed joel campbell.reported in gunnerblog.How about a centre back next,arsene?
I think we’ll keep cesc unless he hands in a transfer request.I don’t see him doing that.
A 19 year old from Costa Rica? Another one that will slot immediately into the first team? Glad at long last we are buying top class proven talent. We can all be very excited about this one.
Clichy’s comments reflect the modern footballer. He takes no blame whatsoever for his part in the end of season fiasco blaming injuries instead. Have had enough of his shit talk , he was an above average left back no more no less and will be remembered that way. Am tired of the cesc/nasri bollox too, both of them can go as far as I am concerned, I want Arsenal back on the front foot with these mercenaries I can live without trophies if we have a team of fighters and they are out there. No more mr Nice Club. Am pig sick of this pre season media whorefest am heading down to the basement for a month to nurse my hangover..
Noel’s basement is the Secure Unit? Who knew…?
Well, then, Mr Clichy, maybe you should not have given the ball away so easily at St Andrews in 2008? Maybe you shouldn’t have fallen flat on you face at home to Tottenham at 4-2 up? Maybe you should have put the ball out for a corner instead of doing a wild swing in panic with seconds to go at Sunderland last autumn? Maybe you shouldn’t have lost your man at corners and throw-ins quite so often? Maybe you should have closed your man down a bit more often so he couldn’t stand there and aim his crosses for five minutes before hitting them? Maybe… etc. Now shut the fuck up.
Noel: there has been no bollocks from Cesc. Don’t fall for the Barcelona propaganda.
SteveT: Forbes has not listed us as the 7th wealthiest club. It is a list of what the club is considered “worth”, it has got absolutely nothing to do with how much money a club can spend on players or whatever. And say what you will about it, but the Asian tour is a neccessity to make the money needed to buy more players.
TS and ‘Holic: did you get the reply I sent a couple of days ago? Shall we go for the Stoke game?
Lars..there has been nothing from Cesc at all. He is supposed to be our captain. If he wants to go get it over with, I love the guy but all this crap with barca is destabilising(?) other players also. I think we survived before him didnt we. Why do we have to wait for him to make some kind of statement of intent he should have done that weeks ago.
CG..careful, my basement is full of old Jimi Hendrix records and childrens feet…you dont want to go down there..
“With Arsene and the management team back in London Iβm sure there will be some concerted efforts to strengthen those parts of the squad where we have obvious weaknesses”.
He’s here all week, folks… π
I’ll have a caramel macchiato please.
Noel: He’s said he is happy at Arsenal and in no hurry to leave and he said it more than a month ago.
http://news.arseblog.com/index.php/2011/06/fabregas-im-very-happy-at-arsenal/
Oops….forgot about that Lars but it does not seemed to have stopped Barca letting Xavi use their website to unsettle him or the mayor of his hometown to accuse Arsenal of kidnapping him..Just the sunday morning blues I’ll get over it
Morning ‘all
Holic – I still think at least one of our so-called ‘wantaway duo that matters’ will be here to help us open our CL campaign. As for the coming week, I guess we may announce a Campbell signing or a Deni loan but as for the rest, I’m digging in for the long term. How often do we do things quickly these days? Still, would absolutely love to be proved wrong on that and would relish eating those words. Come what may, we’ll be there to open a new season in just a few short weeks. Yee-hah!
Lars – You have mail and strongly agree with yoyr points above.
Drinks for any who want them hair of the dog for tabs who looks like he’s gong to need it – a Bloody Mary served in a Jimmy Choo perhaps? π
A good coffee will do the trick today, thanks, TS.
I mean Irish coffee, of course.
Afternoon Ollie. Gaelic coffee coming right up.
Lars @32 “I’m very happy at Arsenal” and i want to/am going to stay – NO – he’s our captain and he wants to go and it’s undermining our club, manager and team. It’s a cloud hanging over the Grove.
In imho the quicker a deal gets done (‘holic’s on loan idea has still got legs as far as i’m concerned – TABS has it been waved under the noses of Ivan and IPA?) the better for all involved … then we can really start to plan for the new season and find our seats on the HT.
Up The Arse!
Afternoon And Lester
Thanks for helping to keep us all entertained recently. Completely understand your views @ #37.
Part of the challenge of being an HT passenger, aside from needing to be slighty certifiable, is taking an optimisitic view of our opportunities this season despite the difficult circumstances that we may or may not find ourselves in. Your seat awaits…. π
A little way off yet but interesting to look at prospective opponents for European Cup qualification:
Udinese
Benfica or Trabzonspor
Dynamo Kiev or Rubin Kazan
Panathinaikos or Odense
Twente or FC Vaslui
Standard Liege or FC Zurich
If Benfica win ther tie we can’t get them as they would be seeded with us. If they go out and Kiev win we can’t get Kiev for similar reasons etc. If both go out god knows who gets seeded! Basically we’d most like the winner from any of the bottom three ties there I think. Though frankly if we can’t win against whoever we play, we deserve to slum it in the Europa League this year.
Afternoon All ,
Can I have one of H2H’s spicy Bloody Mary’s please , though preferably not from a Jimmy Choo on this occasion – too much spillage .
*note to self , do not post when you’re twatted*
Nasri@17 – Wolfgang Smallballs will always defend The Arse . Unfortunately , dressed only in Speedoes and Jimmy Choos , he struggles to challenge the popular perception that he is only interested in The Arse for the .. ahem .. arse .
Snir@19 – will have a go at your debate when my head stops banging .
Steve T @20 – It’s rare that you say anything that I disagree with , but I do think the phrase ” prostituting ourselves around Asia ” a little strong . Sure , its a money-making exercise , ( and what’s wrong with that ) , but ultimately The Premiership is now a global game . When I spent some time in that part of the World 2 years ago , I was staggered by the level of fanaticism . I was in a Bar for the ill-fated Champions League home leg against Manure . The Bar was banging notwithstanding kick off time was 2.00 a.m , and at the final whistle , there was as much gnashing of teeth as there was in N5 . These people love The Arsenal , and to see their untainted unconditional love for the Arsenal has been just about the only highlight of an as yet deeply dispiriting close season .
Lars @29 – Couldn’t agree with you more re Clichy . He went with good wishes , but he needs to shut the f*ck up pronto if the goodwill is to be maintained .
Already , had my twopennyworth re Cesc and Nasri , so won’t repeat , but there’s no way both will be leaving . If Barca continue to f*ck about , then Cesc stays and Nasri gets his chest of cash 12 months early . If Barca play ball , then Nasri stays .
As for yesterday’s game … Please buy a Centre Half Arsene .
TS – Are you going to give Dr C his summary , or am I ? π
And Lester@37 – I think IPA and IG will almost certainly be discussing the Fab/Nasri situation this week π
Right the only good thing about a hangover is it takes choices out of the equation :-
Bacon – Golf – Curry – The Apprentice – Bed .
TS – ta for the pep talk i do appreciate it – i am largely still optimistic but – i genuinely think it would be a positive move to sort out the destiny, once and for all, of our club capitan, and i still believe the Le proff will address weaknesses he himself identified at the season’s end despite what he said the other day about the defence …
BUT if nothing changes (and i hope and still believe they will) no amount of visits to the CMC can induce blind optimism – “oh i dunno thou” – says in voice of kenneth Williams a la Carry Up The Khyber –
Up The Arse
Carry on and on – of course – ureds!
Just made a tanker load of Bloody Marys, Tabs, ‘ere ya go. Will be needing one myself to help wash down various pork products before once again staggering behind the bar. Ofcourse you other chaps are also welcome to pour yourself one, you’ll have to provide your own cellary sticks though, I tend to avoid greens when I’m feeling the same colour.
One quick question/query.
I see on here and other Arsenal related sites our home being reffered to as N5, as I’ve previously mentioned I grew up literaly a stones throw away from where our new stadium is and when I was a kid Ashburton Grove was in N7. Have they changed the postcode to keep us in N5?
H2H,
Cheers old son , very welcome . I too will pass on the Celery stick , the only Greens I’m interested in are in the CMC π
As for your last paragraph , truth is I don’t know .
@ Steve T
I agree with Lars and TABS – you often complain about the price of watching Arsenal, but now you’re complaining that we are laying the foundations for raising money by other means. We need money to compete with other top teams and we have to earn our money somehow. I think your comments were also very disrespectful to the fans in Malaysia and China – they earn less on the whole than we do in the West and paid a fortune for their tickets. The genuine, generous enthusiasm which they have displayed towards the team has been humbling and moving (for the squad as well, I suspect) and I think and the club’s decision to reward Asian fans for their support with a visit shouldn’t be dismissed as “prostituting” ourselves. For them it was an historic occasion.
@46 John you obviously didn’t see Charlie Nicholas, Glenn Helder, eddie mcgoldrick and brian Talbot!
If Clichy left Arsenal to win trophies does mean he’s gonna not fall over at the most inopportune times , play strikers onside and fluff clearances in the 90th minute anymore – good luck m8
Boys. First if all clichy. I agree totally that he needs to take a long hard look at himself as to some of the reasons we have fallen short in recent years. My point was this, that he may not be the only player who has reached the conclusion that if the obvious weaknesses are not to be addressed then it may be time to move on.
I have moaned about ticket prices, several times. But please do not think that a week in Asia, no matter how successful is going to bring those down.
Re the trip, my opinion is simple. I think as a club we would have been better employed far nearer to home and trying to get the squad sorted for the new season.
As I said, just my opinion.
SteveT: not sure about it being better to be closer to home. Going someplace most of the players have never been can be very beneficial from a team-building point of view. It also represents a change from just going to Austria and doing the same thing as every year before which can have it’s benfits too – and a few of the players have also hinted that they were rather happy to go somewhere else for a change. Such small changes can actually have a fairly large impact in terms of injecting energy into a team. Now don’t get me wrong, I still want to see reinforcements being brought in (who doesn’t?) but I have no beefs at all with the team going to Malaysia and China from a footballing point of view.
Lars. For once then we will just have to agree to disagree. At the moment I feel we are in a bit of a mess and little coming out of the club at the moment seeks to change that.
Well, Steve, if nothing else we can at least agree on the club being in a bit of a mess even if we have differing views on the Asia trip – though I have to say I like the way Wenger has come out and defended the club after Xavi and Mancini were mouthing off in the last few days. Maybe we (in addition to a few reinforcements) also need a bit more “us against the world” instilled in the team?
Lars – Definitely.
We beat Barca, Chelsea and United at home last season with that approach, with that belief that we’re the underdogs and it’s us against them (the opposition, the critics, the media, the world).
Everyone absorbed that into himself and pushed the team to victory, be it the players or the fans.
Guiness all round please barman in praise of a proper Gent and now Major holder good on you Mr Clarke showing good guys as well as those that enjoy a smoke and pint can win π
I’ll drink to that Chippy!
Imagine the stoogie he’ll have lit up by now!
A Guiness in celebration….
Quite right , Chippy@52 – Well said . I’ll raise my guinness to Mr Clarke .
SteveT @47 – take your point that no amount of far eastern tours are going to impact on season ticket prices , but as you say , we’ll just have to agree to disagree as to going on the tour itself .
I’m with Lars in that I think a week away from all the incredible negativity which surrounds the club at present , can only have done the players some good . Just an opinion , but AW certainly seems to have recovered some of his mojo . The way he has destroyed both Xavi , and ipsy-dipsy Roberto Mancini , with nothing more than a sardonic smile and a well chosen quip is certainly far more reminiscent of the 2004 AW than the man who appeared to be on the verge of a nervous breakdown at the end of last season .
Evening all,
Drinking to Clarkey here.
@54; All potential material, TaBS….
Tucking in to a fine English roast and an Australian Shiraz right now. Back to the sun tomorrow.
Drinking to far eastern fans here .My first emirates visit last year ,I had to pick up my ticket at one of the outbuildings ,the poor lad in front of me was an asian who’d bought his ticket on a non official Arsenal site and was knocked back, flown halfway across the world to see the Arsenal and 30 metres from his goal getting pulled back for no fault of his own was deflating for me and much much worse for him.
Last year I would have been thoroughly against a destabilising trip out east for financial reasons but hopefully that poor tiddly was at that match in China and many others like him who will never be able to make it to the Emirates and appreciated the difference between a live match and a tv or a dodgy stream
Well, my old Chinas, I bid you a good evening having found my way back from Strumbliwumbli rather quicker than anticipated.
Still accompanied by the fragrant Lady Nina, in fact I blame her for making me think we were actually in Turkey – it was all down to her incessant gobbling. Pleasurable as it was.
Just popped in to the only bar I know where one can consistently expect a bit of reason to be spouted, and what do I find.
Every fucking Thomas, Richard and Harold criticising the club as usual. Will you idiots never stop ?
Just because we only have half a defence, potentially our two most creative players gone, and a bunch of school leavers to replace them, you’re all moaning again !
Put the prices up some more, I say. Price the bloody moaning idiots right out of the place.
Honestly, if it weren’t for you fans, we’d have no dissenters at all.
I bid you all Goodnight.
Come along Nina, time to put the Wood back into Peter Hill.
@Steve T: a quick correction, the Forbes list ranks the most valuable clubs, not the wealthiest which obviously we are not yet part of.
Ticket prices are not going to come down but they will stabilize for a few years in 2014 once we will renegotiate all our sponsorship deals. Until then we’re not even worth a CL spot with Chelski, Citeh, Indebted and Liverpool all spending much more than we are in wages and transfers.
Hey Matt, thanks for cheering us all up with that!
We generally, actually spend less than Aston Villa on transfers, but they don’t finish above us either.
Schizophrenic? Who, me? I’m not the one who’s posting in the drinks under three or more aliases!! Triple scotch please, barman!! Who does that Peter Hill-Wood think he is, anyway?
As said previously by others its good to hear wenger come out and question the way xavi et al can run their mouth with no consequence. I do however think he was baited into reacting to the supposed mancini comments. Having watched the mancini ‘interview’ on sky sports spews, mancini’s response was taken all out of context to serve their purpose and perhaps the clubs previous approach of ‘not for sale followed by silence’ is better than stooping to their level as demonstrated by the reaction wenger gave them. as for the tour i think it was a great opportunity to take advantage of a growing market whilst giving back to us fans who cant make it to games and only see our Team between broken feeds or bile infested ‘commentary’ on tv. Just my opinion on the situation, as always its great to be a Gooner and live by the handle/moniker!
Trev , great last line @58 , inspired π
Could be worse @62 , congrats on having the best moniker on here π
Cheers tabs, there’s β¬50 note behind the bar so drinks are on me-better get em in quick though as that 50 could be worth less than a barca players opinion with the way the eurozone economy is going at the moment!
Cheers Tabs – the character inspired by your good self of course (4 and 5 of BTA) π
Trev, You have outdone yourself with this PHW business. Onward to the Turkey-Austria border!
Sorry Trev but at least it sets expectations right. All this gloom and doom is nonsensical once you make the effort to understand the impact of finance on football, where we come from, where we stand today and where we’re headed.
So we are on the verge of signing……another youngster to immediately send him out on loan. Costa Rican. If potential were trophies…..
I don’t like Mondays. Tell me why…..
Wake me once we sign someone of significance. That means a ready made player.
Yawn π
Hey! My favourite number is 69. Could be my lucky day π
That’s # 69 in your programs but # 1 in your hearts!
Since it’s Monday, and I so hate Mondays, let’s try a quiz. It’s sure to raise Snir’s blood pressure. So, without further to do, here goes. What does the acronym MQUC stand for? All but Snir are welcomed to submit responses π
I agree with you tabs RE:Asia tour @40
The depth of support around here for Arsenal matches that of someonw from around there
We may not be from North London, we are North Londoners all the same
Up the arse!
Manchester, Quite Up themselvs, Cunts?
Morning All,
My two pence on the Asia Tour: Good for the club, good for team building and morale, good for the local fans (they were f-a-n-t-a-s-t-i-c), a pleasant distraction for us supporters, chance for Nasri and AW to spend some quality time together and an education for young Jenkinson. I enjoyed those cheesey little tour bulletins on Arse Player too – they were a pleasant relief from all the bollix on NewsNow, I thought.
zico @ #68,
I think I posted a wee while back that I don’t expect much in the way of signings now. Anyone that comes in before the season starts I will view as a bonus but have everything crossed for an experienced, defensive leader/organiser of some description. Right, time to adjust the silicon chips inside Edwin’s head π
PS from TS re: Asia Tour
Our fans in China produced the best ever fan banner bar none:
“Barce pay 40 milion take cesc away or go home to w*nk”
(with thanks to Blogs for that one)
Even beats the “50 years of failure” with a down arrow over the away supporters at LWCs home match last season, IMO.
Happy Mondays π
TS @ 75 – I saw your post, and thought it was bang on in terms of HT mindset, but personally will be gutted if you are proved right.
Wenger (and Gazidis) cannot harp on about knowing what the squad needs, i.e. experience and then do sod all about it. If it is because they are hamstrung due to squad size and funds because they can’t move on some “fringe” players, then that should tell them all they need to know that something is not quite right abour our overall set up.
My silicon chip is all to feck this morning…..
zico
Don’t know if you caught last night’s episode of Top Gear but I think you need to ask DF to start ‘fingering DLL’s lawyers (sic)’ for a copywright breach on the HT, it was almost blatant (b’stards!) π
Agree with all of your points, I just get the feeling that the starting XI for the coming season is pretty much in place already. If we have a 7th Groundhog season it will, I think, precipitate a bunch of changes that a growing percentage are calling for.
dont wanna sound like a “panicmonger” but its eerily silent on the defensive signing front…
does everyone want a solid defensive signing—-yes
will i be surprised if it does not happen—–um..no
Didn’t see it TS, but the DLL lawyers are all on dope and not quite as litigious as they probably should be
I shall check on iPlayer and crack the whip if necessary π
IMB @ #79
I agree and I don’t see the need for us supporters to panic.
The people who have the opportuntiy to really affect the situation should be mindful of that although panic isn’t going to help them either π
Excellent, zico @ #80. I didn’t know that Clarkson, Hammond or May were Gooners but on eof their team’s been on to this site and nicked some ideas. They even had a Noah Carriage for the pets!
Morning All ,
Just a swiftie for me this morning . The following was in Yogi’s drinks over the weekend and made me chuckle .
http://www.talksport.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/ts_magazine_big_picture/modric%20transfer%20request.jpg
Also highly recommended is the video embedded in the fourth post in Yogi’s blog today , very very funny .
Just trying to chase away those monday morning blues Dr Z π
IMB @ #79 –
Wanna hope & expect but am afraid of disappointment again.
Surely Arsene sees defense as an are of concern!!
i meant to address TS instead of myself there π
If nothing else, at least we now have official confirmation of Gervinho arriving and Denilson going out on loan:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/gervinho-completes-his-move-to-arsenal
http://www.arsenal.com/news/reserves-news/denilson-i-m-sad-to-leave-arsenal-friends
And now, off to try and find that episode of Top Gear – I wonder how fast the Happy Train would go around the track with the Stig at the controls? (I am not very interested at all in cars, by the way, but I do find Top Gear quite funny anyway, I have to admit)
tabs @ #83
Brilliant link!! Please ask WS to spread to all Gooners throughout the galaxy immediately courtesy of YW.
Which begs the question for a HSS (Happy Space Ship) Mk I for 12/13 season??? Certainly fits in with our CMC culture. DLL accepts investment and opens subsid co. called DSSL?
Lars , I notice that the photo of Flipper in the link actually cuts the top of his forehead off , making him look almost normal . I’m assuming they couldn’t find a big enough lens to get it all in π
Good parting words from Denilson .
IMB @ #85
Fear ye not. Talking with ones alter ego(s) is poisitvely encouraged here…..
isn’t it Edwin?
π
Good bye Deni and thanks for the fish?
TS @87 , hey π
Intergalactic travel , now there’s a thought … Beam him up Ricey
tabs @ #88,
There’s more than a touch of Samuel L. in Pulp Fiction about him in that shot.
Welcome The Fivehead, I love him already. He’s gonna be the next Freddie π
But can he jump through hoops whilst juggling the ball on his nose?
Open post to the The Top Gear Production Team:
Which one of you feckers nicked our Happy Train ideas?
It was the most balatant piece of plagiarising I have witnessed in a long time.
The only thing you missed was the CMC references, you even used ‘Scum Class’ for the pets compartment.
Obviously one of you is a Gooner.
Would that person please demonstrate the courtesy to come on here (use any pseudonym you like) and admit that we fuelled your ideas.
Failure to comply may result in legal action on behalf of DL Ltd.
π
Dr. z @ #93.
Brilliant and in a few short weeks we’re going to find out!
In the meantime, I’m going to ask the manager of the Buffet Car to stock-up on dolphin friendly tuna.
Dr. Z @77 – the fairest of fair points – being positive is one thing – and ultimately, once things can’t be changed – the only way forward. But surely as fans we do no-one any favours by simply sucking it up and pretending not see stuff that don’t suit us
I still personally refuse to believe the wind of change won’t whistle round The Grove. Surely a couple of quality signings will be ushered up a rope ladder left dangling from Ivan’s ‘transfer’ office window, and presented to the Le Proff as a pair of dirt cheap done deals who look suspiciously physically mature/tall for teen-age midgets – sometimes think that dear old DD must done this on occasions.
Or maybes i’ve been packing the ol’ pipe with too much ‘rope ladder’ meself lately and have entered the delusional phase of pre-season … hope not.
Up The Arse!
No such thing as “too much”, AL – just ask tabs π
I’ll – er, drink to that …
TS, I have now watched said episode of Top Gear and the rip-off is plain for all to see. Let the lawyers do their dirty work on Clarkson et al!
Nerves getting frayed. A sign the season is getting closer. Time for two weeks on the beach with no checking the news. I wish that was my lot. #100?
Lars, it’s outrageous isn’t it? Clarkson in a Sports Train too! I just want one of their bods to come on hear and say thanks for the ideas fellas π
* ponders a technology exchange involving Stig’s helmet and PHW’s brain to create a Dark Lord *
I always thought Top Gear was another name for the contents of the CMC!?
Yours truly
Confused
NL.
AL @ #96,
Re: the ‘winds of change’
How about AW potentially forfeiting Β£20M to keep a v.talented but disloyal (c*nty even) player as part of a plan to ensure a successful CL campaign and to secure at least one piece of silverware this coming season?
I would say that’s about as bold and as different as things get at our normally parsimonious and conservative club?
IMO, it’s a helluva gamble and makes me think he (AW) is throwing caution to the wind as this year could be his last role of the dice as Arsenal manager.
PS: Not picking on you in any way shape or form. You raised a good point that forced me to ‘engage brain’ for a change. π
H2H – Capital HEH !
TS – the flaw in this argument is that how will we get 100% commitment out of a player running down his contract? Can you imagine the howls of derision if he misses an open goal against the LWCs or indeed any match for that matter.
They would be better taking the Β£20m for Nasri and forging more gold handcuffs for Cesc, at least we know what we would get for the money.
Yes H2H, I second that. Worthy of a prescription of your choice I think. Please fetch your pipe π
zico, yes it’s one hell of a gamble on Arsene’s and/or the clubs part. No guarantees at all and full of gotchas. It’s also a real test of C.Nasri’s professionalism and character. Could end in tears all round or could be a master-stroke. I think we agree to disagree on this one but you points are valid.
H2H @ 102 – π
zico @ 104 – agree.
Trying to sit tight in my HT Mk II seat but getting very fidgety. AW originally said that he wanted the Nasri issue decided by 30th June. Is there even a deadline for him now ?
I would take the money for Nasri and give Barca 48 hours to come up with the cash for Cesc, or explain to the skipper that they don’t really want him.
They are decisions, and that, to me, is far more “big club” than desperately clinging to the hope that one of them may stay.
Whoever I finish up paying a fortune to watch next season, I just want to know that they want to be there and are giving their all. As I will be.
Post of the day Trev – Bravo!
Afternoon Trev
It could just be me but I’m not picking up on a desperate vibe coming from the club.
From the press and from certain factions of our supporters yes. From the club no.
BTW, great stuff from your PHW alter ego earlier π
Cheers TS – off to sharpen the elbows now π
Yes Trev, they’re highly effective from memory π
G’Day to all you deranged lot …
Sharpened and highly effective elbows? Isn’t that just what we need in our back four?
SV – Mes que un CUNT?
Just finished watching a 100 minute program on the 1997-1998 and another 120 minute program on the invincibles and boy, am I fired up for this season…
Too bad it’s only July :\
TS – surely surly Nasri signs or goes – i’m hoping Arsene’s showing a little of his old wily self here again and is indulging in a bit of bluff calling. Cos i can’t see a midfield peopled by players that would rather be elsewhere winning anybody anything. If it’s possible i say pay Zammo what he wants and get the best out of him – we can always flog ‘im later on then if we have to. If he don’t sign let the oil rich Mahareshi’s of Manchester overpay for him and put him out to grass with milner, johnson, swp and all the other greedy fuks that are stuck up there on silly wages – while we concentrate on adding a bit more committed quality to our talented squad.
I’m closing my eyes and imagining an Arsenal 22, come the big Kick off, with bundles of commitment and hardly any weakenesses – but i’d settle for an 18.
Up The Arse!
Pardon – hadn’t read the good Dr.’s post at 104 before replying to TS at 103 – I see he had the absolute good sense to make points similar to my own – only he did it a little earlier … the so and so – Up The Arse
Or indeed Trev’s at 106 – ‘spot’ and ‘on’ sir.
SG,
You were disqualified from the competition before it started due to overwhelming bias. zico was the only one to give an answer but his included a t as part of the acronym so he too is disqualified.
I’m really quite disappointed. I thought this bunch was more talented than this. Not even a few original entries. Damn Mondays all to Hell.
SV – I thought so too but no one picked up on my debate @19 π
Am I the only one who thinks that any deal involving NB52 going to Everton would have Jagielka in it somewhere?
Re: Snir @19, I’m not sure who the current most overrated player is in the league, but to spice up the debate at least I’ll throw out these three as nominees: Jagielka, Cahill, and Samba. Any takers??
Who’s the most overrated of the three? Cahill IMO.
Snir, I haven’t seen the three of them play enough to really say for sure, but I can remember a huge blooper Jagielka made allowing Eduardo to score an easy goal a couple of years ago for us. I guess Jagielka as far as I’m concerned then, since many other people seem to base their opinions on less information (present company excluded, of course.) π
Snir, Based on our sampling so far our panel of experts seems to think we should go for Samba. π
Most underrated – Parlour .
Runners up – Clyde Best π , Laurie Cunningham , Kevin Beattie .
Most overrated – Carragher
Runners up – Anyone bought by Benitez ( Alonso the exception )
MQUC – Masturbate quietly , underpaying c*nts .
H2H@102:-)
Trev@106 – good stuff .
Of the 3 Id have Jag , then Cahill , then Samba . Seen very little of all 3 , so basically my opinion is worth a crock of doggy-doo .
bt8bbnn – Samba is not rated that highly so Cahill is more overrated ;).
To be honest, I haven’t seen Jagielka be that bad except for when Nasri just blew by him last season at Goodison Park.
A blooper helping Eduardo score doesn’t say much about his ability but maybe about a one time lapse of concentration, so it can be taken into consideration as opposed to pace and speed of recovery. The way he was exposed by Nasri was frightening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yD59Ft2T7g&feature=related
This should be on the HT MkII Plasmas as a pick me up.
O.K guys, I’ve got a theory here that I saw someone write on twitter, but please, don’t fall off your chairs just yet and think about it seriously.
He says CBs are all about partnerships, and that Jagielka made Lescott look better than what he really is and I can relate to that since I feel TV did the same with the SHIT CB that is Gallas (and no one would convince me that Gallas isn’t shit, and no it has nothing to do with the fact he signed for Spurs), only that time we had Almunia in goal so it wouldn’t really matter who we would have as CBs.
So my thought was what would you think of a JD and TV partnership?
One is very strong in the air, the other is tough as nails. One can tackle very cleanly, the other has great speed of recovery and awareness.
Combine that with Szceszny and we might have a good combo here.
I’m bringing this up because I don’t think Samba, Cahill or Jagielka (who are our reported targets) are better than JD and I’d rather have a strong, good in the air CB with TV as opposed to Kos who I like very much but is too similar to TV.
What do you think?
JD seems ready to make another positive step forward this season, and he and TV could make an effective partnership. Koscielny is certainly in the mix among the top three as well, and we have reason (experience in the league, general maturation, etc.) to expect improvement from him this season. My guess is that AW is looking for a more effective replacement for Squillaci as our fourth choice center back to push the other three. But I would be positively surprised if he buys a real first teamer to push the others all down one spot in the pecking order.
bt8bbnn – If AW doesn’t buy a CB, no matter how we start the league, the fans would be very impatient with him. The funny thing is, doesn’t matter who he’ll buy as long as he’ll buy someone would calm the fans.
I’m just not sure that with the targets that are being reported it’s a step up, then again, who is on the market that is? The ONLY one I can think of is Alex from Chelsea, who I’ve heard AVB is looking to offload.
Cahill, Samba or Jagielka would be an upgrade for the 4th CB Squillaci but I doubt any of them (bar Samba maybe) would come with no guaranteed first team action or at least a promise from AW that they’re 2nd or 3rd in his mind after TV.
JD, TV and WS might very well be a good combo, question is, how will the fans react to a lack of signing in that position?
Very good entry tabs @123. Could be the winner. Nice technique. Proper execution. Quite original.
SG,
I like the TV & JD partnership myself. I don’t think AW will spend on a CB this window. With Kos there are three dependable CBs and I don’t believe Jag, Cahill, or Samba are upgrades from our top three (certainly not a significant upgrade and definitely not the inflated EPL price premium for overrated talent). Le Boss will not spend that kind of money and he shouldn’t in this case.
However, spending on the 6’6″ CB Mertesacker would be very wise indeed. A partnership of that German man mountain and TV would be the Hell’s bells and that tall Sauerkraut would solve half of our set piece problems all by himself π
SV – From what I’ve seen Mertesacker he always seemed a bit clumsy, Peter Crouch like to me.
Hope I’m wrong (if we do sign him, don’t think we will though).
Anybody want to bet against the signing of an virtually unknown African from Ligue 1?
SG – We should sign him but we won’t. His aerial dominance combined with the savvy of TV would be a perfect fit. German international who is much better than the three targets you cited.
Merte is my man but AW is far too stingy.
bt8bbnn – If that would be Sakho, I would gladly put my money on him.
He’s almost as tall as Djourou and is very strong (6’2” as opposed to 6′ 4”).
http://www.football365.com/spanish-thing/7045946/Why-Wenger-Is-Bar-a-s-Mr-Bad-Guy
Just in case Barca isn’t your 2nd most hated club :).
The audacity to think it’s wrong to not accept a 35M bid for one of the world’s best midfielders is beyond belief.
He’s French but yeah Sakho would be VERY good.
As for Barca, their cheek is beyond the pale
Well, Shay Given is now also amongst those we will not be signing this summer (if he was ever on AW’s radar). Given just signed long term with Villa.
SV: Given is no better than what we already have as our two first choices and until Almunias complete meltdown last autumn I would have picked him over Given as well. He is a shot stopper, not a keeper who commands his area. He’ll probably fit in quite well at Villa who will be put under sustained pressure for many (if not most, they look very much like relegation candidates at the moment) games this coming season, but I don’t think he would work very well at all at Arsenal.
Dodgy Bryan Robson… And Slur Alex may be in trouble too!
TS @ 94 and 101
Watched Top Gear. Nothing to worry about. Those guys don’t really have true Happy Train type imagination. The only thing they got close to the real thing was the Scum class, and even then it was far too salubrious for what we have in mind for Cusop and his ilk.
There was no point in trying to get hold of our legal eagles anyway, as they are currently on a 3 day crystal meth binge (allegedly).
Turning to the Arsenal debate above, I have said before that I think that both Cahill and Samba have been afforded enhanced reputations by some just because they play in the English premier league (was Cahill not in a defence that conceded 5 to Stoke for example)? Jagielka is also not better than what we have got in my opinion – (Man City would pay 30M for him though).
That said, probably being a bit of a heretic here, I have major reservations about Djourrou and would like us to sign a first choice centre back to play with TV and have Kos and JD as back up.
Drinks for my American friends please barman, and any of the other usual suspects lurking in the corner.
The Wasp: not being in Britain, I can’t watch it on the Channel4 website. Can you give a short summary of what was said?
Lars,
All that you say about Given is quite true. However, he is an experienced international/EPL keeper. Something which would be nice to fall back on. Our top two keepers are far from experienced. I would have liked to see Given come in as our number two behind Cheezer and I would have loaned out Flappy Hands myself. However, this is not a perfect world and I’m sure Given would not come over to us to be a number two as he’s had enough of that. I like Cheezer but having both of your top two keepers as inexperienced as ours going into the start of the season does not bode well.
And if we can’t get Mertesacker my second choice would be Sakho. Those two would be upgrades and be ideal partners for TV. All three of those EPL targets (Jag, Samba, and Cahill) would not be upgrades and just money misspent.
A drink for the frugal Scot please barman. He sounds like he’s got the right hymnsheet today π
@ Lars
That Dispatches programme is mainly about the ease of buying, building up and then profiting from the quick sale of an English lower league clubs in flagrant breach of the FA’s ownership rules. The undercover reporters are shown by an investment group how to buy a club without anyone being able to check who you are and how to hide the fact that you own more than one club β special investment vehicles etc. They (the investment fund which was going to facilitate the purchase) say that if you take quality players on loan you save yourself the cost of actually putting any money into the club. They employ Bryan Robson as a βconsultantβ and the main man knows SAF and says that he will loan them players and also portray SAF as having enough influence over several other managers (mostly ex-ManU players) to get them to loan players to the newly bought clubs as well and help them win promotion to the PL, thus increasing the clubβs value many times over. Which is when they sell. Three to five years was the time frame to turn it around. And of course all done with borrowed money.
There is a subplot about an alleged connection of SAF and his acolytes to the βbusinessmanβ who is the main man in this investment group. Steve Bruce, Alex McLeish and a couple of other managers who they claimed could be called upon by SAF to loan players to the clubs, all denied knowing this man, but he definitely knows SAF.
This businessman also mentioned that SAF tells him which clubs to bet onβ¦as a bit of fun, apparently.
Lurking here so a lager please Dr Z and the keys π
Heretic or not , can’t agree with you more re the Centre backs . I don’t know who the stand out new signing should be , but I guess that’s why I’m not paid 6m per annum . I pray we don’t go in with the same 4 this season . TV and Kos in pole position at mo . Squil not up to it . JD played well for 4 months , but was frankly dreadful after his injury at OT . Jury is still very much out .
Just watched Dispatches . Robson just a thicky stooge with money signs in his eyes . As for the rest , seriously shady characters , whose tactics appeared only just above that of nigerian e-mails asking for your bank account details because you’ve won 25 billion pounds . They didn’t nail Sir red nose other than that he has dinner with these ne’er-do-wells . Guilty by association ? I wouldn’t be at all surprised .
Ferguson reminds me of Murdoch – untouchable , all- powerful and a c*nt – and we all know what’s happening there . It will all come out in the wash eventually , and when all the money-men , and the far eastern gangsters and the arab oil sheiks and the Russian oligarchs have all run away , Good old Arsenal will be there , still classy , still financially sound, mopping up all the silver .
Stingy@142: experienced? Well, so was Silvestre. Experience is good, but not the only thing that matters. And besides, I’d say that Given has arguaby less experience of battling at the top end of the table than either of Fabianski or Szczesny.
FunGunner: thanks for the summary.
@Zico: my money is on Kos for this season. Not only because he’s had an excellent first season considering he never had the chance to form a partnership due the incessant rotation of his partners but above everything else he’s shown the best recovery abilities from any CB I’ve seen wear an Arsenal shirt. He’s lightning fast on the start and turns like a fly. By comparison TV and JD look much slower and they are no slouches.
From second division to playing like a star against Barca in 2 years, who knows how far the boy can progress? To me Kos is one of the precursors of an emerging trend at the back where vivacity and reflexes become more important than strength and dominance. There are many reasons why we have the best open play defensive record in the league but Kos in undoubtedly one of the main ones. If TV and him can partner for most of the season I feel confident we’ll have one of the top 3 defenses next season.
As for the discussion about possible signings Jagielka, Samba and Sakho are behind our first-choice CBs and it’s very debatable if Cahill would be an improvement. None of them would accept to join if they weren’t first-choice anyway (except maybe Samba which says it all).
So this gets me curious: which available CB would like us to sign that would be an improvement over what we have? Or perhaps do you trust our scout network to unearth another gem?
On another note like everyone at Young Guns I am intrigued by Joel Campbell. Sure he’s not CL-winning material right now but he looks as exciting as Miyaichi was when he was signed. Strong, fast, technical and with vista to boot. We know what youtube videos are worth but there are things that can’t be faked.
tabs – “Mopping up silver”?!?!?! Like the past six seasons I suppose? Get off the bad weed mate and get yourself a refund on that last batch π Once one sugar daddy leaves there is always another more than willing to take his place and circumvent all of those impending FFP rules like billionaires circumvent taxes through various loopholes. And yet what do we have? Six trophyless seasons on the trot and counting and our glorious self sustaining model (which would be fantastic if it weren’t for the lack of silver). A glass half empty lad might say that our club has an aversion to silver of late akin to Dracula π
Boy do I need the HT π
I’m sure all the outsiders will be laughing at us if we don’t upgrade our CB & GK situation before Sept. 1st. One of each would be nice to see coming in. Just my two cents.
Lars – Your response to experience at the GK position was probably the weakest response I’ve ever seen from you. We’ll agree to disagree.
A quick glance at the blogs/forums of our rivals shows a growing anxiety. Indebted have 5 players off (VdS, Scholes, Heargraves, O’Shea and Wes Brown) with Giggs not becoming younger and only 2 signings. It looks like the perspective of relying on the ever-injured Anderson/Ferdinand and underwhelming Carrick is not filling them with confidence either.
On the Chelski sites there’s a slow realization that Drogba, Anelka, Lampard and Malouda aren’t going to improve this season and they’ll be happy if Essien can play half the games. There too the replacements aren’t too overwhelming, Mikel and Kalou in particular don’t look highly-rated as starters.
On the Citeh sites they’re looking pretty distraught at the idea of Tevez leaving. Well they can always field another DM.
Liverpool supporters are the only happy ones with their managerial honeymoon and cash splash. But from where they’re coming it’s not too much of a surprise, it’s easier to dream of CL than of winning the league.
Looks like this season will be even tighter than the last one, if only it could start tomorrow!
@SV: Can’t think of anyone who will laugh at us for having either Fab or Woj as our GK considering they were better than most keepers in the league last season and United had to spend 23 mils for a similar prospect.
From what the other fans are thinking of their respective team, looks like it will be wise for anyone to wait a few months before laughing at the other teams…
Stingy, what is so weak about my argument? When has Given played for a team challenging for the title? I used Silvestre as an example of the dangers of overrating such things, he ticked more or less all the boxes for what many want in a player – experienced, had won several titles, had internationals to his name, could play both in central defense and on the left etc etc but he was shit anyway.
We won’t agree on this, but I would appreciate it if you would clarify what you mean instead of just dismissing counter-arguments as “weak”.
Matt@150 and 151: two very good posts.
Oops, in my post@152 it should have been “as an example of the dangers of overrating such things as exerience”.
Matt,
Most of the professional pundits on TV were giving us the gears for our ineptitude at the GK and CB positions last season. If nobody is brought in to upgrade and we get another Groundhog Day we will be the laughing stocks of the league.
I’m not sure if you’ve watched much La Liga over the last two years. De Gea has been a beast, despite his age, and probably the best keeper in the world for his age group. Our two Polish youngsters are simply not in his class. Chezzer shows promise, don’t get me wrong, but still will never be a De Gea (who was the UEFA U21 winning keeper this past summer btw).
Evening, nutters. Tonight I have discovered the best cure for a Darren Clarke sized hangover is to get back on it again. Thank God I didn’t have to work today…
Lars,
While your example of Silvestre is a good one he is still not a GK so it is not very relevant to the discussion at hand.
Givens would never come to us as a #2. But this time last year all the talk was about an over the hill Aussie GK coming in to save our bacon. We even made a last minute bid for him I believe. In my books Given is far better than the Aussie and has many years left in the tank. Let’s not forget that Given is also a very experienced international GK and has many EPL seasons behind him. To simply dismiss his EPL experience as not being relevant due to his experience being with lesser clubs is quite weak. If a GK can impress with lesser teams, being naturally busier because he is playing with lesser teams, that to me is even more impressive than showing something with top clubs and not being challenged.
I personally would feel better if one of our top two GKs had much more experience going into this season. I know Cheezer has shown promise but his sample size is quite small. And so is Flappy’s. If those two were Liverphool’s two top GKs going into this season you would probably be ripping KD’s acumen for the decision of entering a season with two relative newbies at the spot. Remember how you still don’t believe in Suarez (who taught Argentina a few things in this past Copa btw)? It seems to me you cut our players a lot of slack and have a great deal of faith in them but if those exact same players played elsewhere you’d nitpick them to death. And if Suarez played here you’d think he was the second coming.
Just an observation. No offence my Viking friend. Have a double shot of Absolute or a Swedish brewski once one comes to mind π
Cheers
Zico – I get what you’re saying but as I said, this is a theory based on reality.
And in reality, the only targets we have (well, the known ones) are Samba, Cahill, Sakho, Jagielka and Mertesacker.
Apart from Sakho, I don’t see anyone who could improve the crop (again, haven’t seen Mertesacker so can’t say).
Tabs, this debate is about the 2 CBs that would be on the teamsheet and not about the 4 CBs all together, so it’s different.
Let’s say we do sign Cahill, I’m not sure I’d like TV and Cahill more than TV and JD.
So the question is, who would you want to pair up with TV if one of the three sign (Cahill, Samba, Jagielka)?
Matt – I totally agree with you on Kos but these attributes help him with teams that like to play on the ground (Chelsea, Barca, United), teams that actually try and initiate something other than try to squeeze out a set piece and steal it from a set piece.
When he was up against the tough Rugby teams he struggled.
In that case he is too similar to TV and pairing the two together would make two great CBs who have pace and good recovery abilities but are not invincible in the air and not as strong.
You have to find a balance between your 2 CBs and I think pairing them up would mean putting two CBs that are just too similar as opposed to TV and JD or TV and Sakho etc.
And I would say that of all the positions on the pitch where experience is most vital it would be GK. We have two Polish diaper dandies true enough. But both are relatively unproven and both are definitely inexperienced. It is a cause for concern and unsettles me. Especially considering our recent ignominious history at said position π
Stingy @148 , you often make me giggle , but frankly the only part of your post that made any sense was that you’re in need of the CMC .
The reasons why the move to the Ems impacted so heavily on our spending ability and thus our ability to challenge , have been well-rehearsed on these pages many times – the Banking crisis , the property crash – they all made the move far more problematic than was originally envisaged .
The six-year line repetitively drummed out by those who seek to undermine the Club ignores the fact that during that six years we have made top 4 without fail , competed in 3 finals including the Champs League , contested 3 other semi-finals , and mounted 3 title challenges that have gone well into april . That AW has achieved this whilst operating on a profit in the transfer market is a minor miracle bearing in mind the forces ranged against him .
That said , I was critical of AW/ the Board last summer as I felt the purse strings could have been loosened more than they were , and I will be critical again this summer if more money is not spent , but don’t trot out this six year bollocks like some sort of mantra . To do so is to ignore all the fluctuating circumstances of the last 6 years which has made each season a very different and individual challenge – its lazy and does you no credit .
Finally I fully agree with Lars re Given and didn’t think his response in any way weak . Frankly if you think Given is in any way suitable for Arsenal , given the problems that we have in dominating our own area in the air , then i suggest that perhaps you have been sneaking into the CMC , without supervision .
Finally , your point about sugar daddys is not in my opinion valid . The lesson of History is that things never stay the same for very long . Sugar Daddies have not been around for very long , only Abramovich and the Sheiks have sufficient wonga to challenge Arsenal . They don’t grow on trees , if that were the case , every Premiership team would have their own individual ready to throw oodles of cash at their respective Clubs . Ask Everton how difficult it is to find a multi-billionaire . Abramovich has thus far spent Β£800m at Chelsea , is he willing to spend another Β£800m over the next 10 years – doubtful . Man City will be a force , and whilst I don’t think the FFP rules will negate them , I do think they will curb the most blatant excesses .
I apologise for the somewhat strident response , but the six year jibe pissed me off . As a North London boy I have to listen to that kind of nonsense from Spuds all the time .
Anyway , I’ll buy you a drink of your choice . π
*applauds TaBS*
tabs – Both you and Wolfgang make me giggle too. TouchΓ© π Opinions are like arseholes … we all have them.
Snir , I think I made clear that I felt Kos and TV were in pole position , but that if we buy a new centre half I want a first choice centre half to partner TV , with everyone else being knocked down in the pecking order .
I’m not qualified to talk at any length about other centre halves at other clubs as I also made clear .
I think I knew what the debate was about !
Cheers ‘Holic π
@SV: Mentioning pundits just proves you have no point. Pundits know jack, if they knew they’ll earn 5 times as much managing a team.
They can laugh as much as they want, in the end the season will prove them all wrong time and time again about everything related to football.
I do watch la Liga and DeGea is good for his age but I did watch the 2 Atletico games against Barca and there is absolutely no doubt Woj performed better against Barca than DeGea did last season.
Don’t fall for the hype, half the teams in la Liga would struggle in the Championship. Let’s wait and see how DeGea performs in a league that is competitive day in day out before being definitive in your judgment.
tabs – First, the six year argument is very relevant despite our dislike of it being shoved in our face all the time. I’m an Arsenal fan and I am tired of it. But it is the truth. And I don’t expect it to end until the stadium is paid off. The six years could turn into eleven years. The stadium is an albatross around our necks.
I do appreciate your passionate post but disagree with a few other points also.
Stingy – fair enough you’re entitled to your opinion , but frankly it’s bollocks .
tabs – I already addressed why Lars response was weak above. I’d rather have an experienced Given backing up Szczesny than Fabs every day of the week if only for his extensive experience alone. If Chezzer somehow misses the plot a la Almunia we are going to rely on another inexperienced Polish GK? Good plan. I’d rather have a proven GK to rely on in that case. And sorry to bring this up but I must. Did Chezzer command the box in the Mickey Mouse Final?
*sip, sip, sip*
π On Given we can agree to disagree . I personally think we need to address far more glaring weaknesses than a reserve keeper .
As regards all the other stuff , the six year drought and the so called sugar daddies I yield not an inch , with or without the water .
tabs @160…I agree. Ivans statements on Arsenal.com hit the nail on the head, we are a different beast to the other teams in the top 4 and that applies equally to transfers. I think he exerts more pressure on Arsene than we know but by this stage you would have confirmation of negotiations on prominent signings be it through agents or the players themselves leaking it to the press. Hopefully we will be scratching our heads saying ” how the fuck did he pull that one off” by the start of the season.
tabs – And lastly, the point about Sugar Daddies I was making have to do with exactly both Chel$ki and Citeh. Both of those SDs will probably be around a long time and snatching up our best players whom are close to the end of their contracts. It’s already happening. I don’t like it. But it’s the truth. We are becoming their feeder team.
If we had a similar Sugar Daddy we would have been far more competitive, and actually won a number of things, these past six seasons.
And the next time a wanker Spud brings up our recent lack of success, just remind them of their’s which is far more egregious π
I’ll drink to that.
Tabs, what I meant was, if it was a CB that would push everyone down in the pecking order who would you want and if AW is gonna buy one of the three mentioned, would you rather have them or TV and Kos?
If the case is TV and Kos then I don’t really think we as fans can keep bitching about a CB when the alternatives aren’t that appealing.
Stingy: “being naturally busier because he is playing with lesser teams, that to me is even more impressive than showing something with top clubs and not being challenged.”
Actually, I’d say it is the other way around. I don’t know if you have ever played in goal, but I have and in my opinion it is in fact in most ways easier to play when you are more busy. I’d say that being the goalie for Arsenal is perhaps the most difficult job in the Premier League due to the amount of possesson we have in each game, because it is really difficult to be on top of your game when you are standing around for long periods with nothing to do. Getting continually peppered with shots and crosses is a lot easier than dealing with one shot or one corner every ten minuts and then barely touching the ball in between.
In any case, my main argument is that experience is just one of many factors to consider.
“If those two were Liverphoolβs two top GKs going into this season you would probably be ripping KDβs acumen for the decision of entering a season with two relative newbies at the spot.”
That is purely hypothetical. And in any case I would have said “let’s wait and see”, just like I am doing with De Gea.
“Remember how you still donβt believe in Suarez (who taught Argentina a few things in this past Copa btw)?”
That has got nothing to do with experience. Why I don’t join the chorus of praise for him just yet is because I don’t think he performed nearly as well as many others seem to – he had a couple of good games where there was no pressure on, but he was invisible when all of a sudden things mattered. And I have never said that he definitely won’t make it or that he will bomb, I have said and I am saying that I am still not convinced he’ll be the revelation others seem to think.
Tabs @ 160 – well said sir.
Stingy – re Given. Forget Given as he would not go anywhere to be a Number 2, unlike El Hadj Diouf who will be a number 2 wherever he goes.
Last summer AW evidently made a big-money bid for Pepe Reina (source: Bob Wilson on radio), so he could hardly be accused of a lack of ambition there. Unfortunately, Liverpool would not sell. The question now must be, ‘would AW bring in Reina and “kill” Sczcscy’ ?
Snir – Meertesacker’s Quality Unlike Cahill, ??
Matt,
Most pundits are ex managers and know a lot more about the game than we do. Why is it that so many, the vast majority, keep harping on our defensive frailties (especially CB and GK). Where there’s smoke there is fire. Surely they can’t all be wrong?
La Liga is by far one of the two tops leagues in the world. There are only three leagues with four UCL spots and they are one of them. To say that half of the teams in La Liga would have trouble in the Championship (the English Segunda Division) is beyond the pale at worst and misinformed and disingenuous at best.
And if De Gea isn’t a lot better than our two youngsters at GK don’t you think Indebted would have gone after them and probably saved a bit of coin too? After all, our top two play in a vastly better league and are seen on a regular basis by Indebted’s decision makers.
I’ll have what you’re drinking. A lot of agreeing to disagreeing going on tonight and it’s all my fault. C’est la vie.
Stingy – Sam Allardyce does quite a bit of punditry π
Noel73 – Thanks and let’s hope so .
Stingy – How can you say that we are a feeder club ? Ashley Cole was a one off , and notwithstanding the ridiculous sums on offer , the Club/ David Dein handled the matter badly and I think lessons were learned .
City paid us ridiculous amounts of cash for Adebayor and Toure , neither of whom have been great successes .
Clichy has gone at a time when most Gooners recognised that his time was up at the club . I wish him well but am glad he’s gone .
If City want to pay us 25m for Nasri , I’m in the camp of taking the cash as long as it’s reinvested .
Snir , I mentioned my order of preference @124 with the proviso that I hadn’t seen enough of any of them to make a qualified judgement , especially as against the present Arsenal Defenders who I saw in every single game last season with the exception of the Fulham game away .
Hi Trev and Cheers
Trev – I said I hadn’t seen a lot Mertesacker so can’t judge really.
Lars,
To me, whether it is as a GK or as a CB, the weaker the club you play on the quicker you will be found out and exposed. Playing on the strongest teams protects otherwise relatively weak players at those positions due to the attempts against them. Simple sample size argument from statistics. I like to use the John Terry example. On Chelsea he is a King but that, to me, has a lot more to do with him playing on just about the best team in the EPL. Once he plays with England, a much weaker team v their opposition, he is exposed and looks slow and weak (even a liability).
If a player can impress in those two positions with weaker teams it is far more impressive in my book.
As for Suarez, he has been exceptional at every level (Ajax, Uruguay, and LFC). And coming up big at Anfield v Indebted counters every argument you placed against him wrt not coming up big when most needed in the EPL. He’s already their best player in my eyes.
I hope you all don’t mind if I join in?
Just got in and caught up. I am glad to read that opinions still resemble arseholes.
Must say that mine is that I am amazed people do not think Given would have strengthened the squad. At the start of last season Chezzer was our third choice and he was third choice for a reason. He made his way to the first team by the fact that those higher in the pecking order were injured. He has since played what amounts to half a season. I agree that he has shown great potential but for me that is all it is. He has a long way to go to become the keeper we all hope he can be. I wonder if some opinions are some what inflated due to the the ineptitude of those who have previously been selected?
I hope Chezzer does well. I hope he does turn into the keeper we all hope he can be. But the fact is that at this stage we just do not know. What I would say is the fact that the back up is Flappy, Almunia and Manonne scares the hell out of me. I don’t consider any of them anywhere near good enough for our great club. Given, in my humble opinion would have been an ideal choice to keep Chezzer on his toes and to fight for the number one position.
Snir – my Meertesacker comment was an acronym for your competition !
Do try and keep up, old chap! π
SteveT Hi , fair enough , you and Stingy make a fair case for Given . It’s just my opinion that he is not the type of Goalkeeper that can address our very real weakness in commanding our own area .
More pertinently , the point made above by Stingy and I think Lars that this debate ignores the fact that i dont think Given would go anywhere where he wasn’t the guaranteed No.1 .
1) We have the best defensive record in open play.
2) We have the worst defensive record on set pieces.
3) We shipped less goals than United, on par with Chelski and Citeh before our collapse.
Now I haven’t heard any pundit praising us once for having the best defense in the league at the time or close to. I still haven’t read a single pundit praising our defensive record in open play so far.
The faith you express in pundits sheds light on your football beliefs and explains why you’re recycling tabloid mantras despite their obvious disconnect to reality. Pundits are hired to make money for their employer not to be accurate, truthful or honest. They say what people want to hear, nothing more which makes them no different than politicians. They jump on any bandwagon because this is what sells, not because that’s what they believe personally. Notwithstanding the fact that a significant fraction is bigoted and hate Arsenal with a passion.
The United point is another non-argument. Both Fab and Woj are on long-term contracts, there’s nothing United or anyone else can do about it. We have no idea if United wants them the fact is that they can not get them. Certainly they’re no as hyped as De Gea Now have a look at United’s blogs/forums and see what their supporters think of paying 23mils for an unproven 20yo GK as a replacement for VdS, they certainly don’t share your enthusiasm about the value for money considering the other holes in their team. DeGea is a good prospect but the Atletico must have been jumping high and down when they got the fax from United.
Trev – The competition isn’t mine, I’m disqualified from it due to overwhelming bias!
Do try and keep up, old chap ;)!
Trev – I did say that I never thought that Given would come here as a number two. There’s little doubt of that π π
Tabs. You make a very valid point about the number 2 slot. All I would say is why should he be number 2? If he was told it is a level playing field and the best plays then surely that is just healthy competition? If Given is not up for that challenge then fine.
Must say that i would be lying if I did not say that I had serious concerns over the keeping situation.
The Centre back position concerns me greatly too. I do not believe that at this stage JD or Kos are good enough to be regular first choice starters. I think both have potential and both will improve. But I do want a top quality centre half brought in. I want one that is capable of organising a back four and has leadership qualities.
Trev @ 176 – True. Very true. Not all pundits are brilliant. However, most know more than us or else we would be on those shows raking in the cabbage.
SteveT – I think Given had that challenge at City and now wants guaranteed first team football .
As regards the Centre halves , I couldn’t agree with you more . We need a stellar centre half unquestionably .
Steve @187 – Who would you want? That is realistically available (you know what I mean, don’t write Vidic or something).
Out of the three reported targets I can’t see someone who’s better than Kos or JD.
@Steve T: as much as I understood the point about Schwartzer last season, I just can’t believe you’re advocating Given today. The guy has no CL experience, Newcastle never got anywhere in the Europa league, their defense have always been in shambles (granted it can’t all be blamed on Given, it’s Newcastle after all). The only thing Given was excellent at in his day was shot-stopping. He’s been on the bench 2 years, the one thing we know with reflexes is that they’re the first thing to degrade with age so he’s already far below his best. And let’s not forget all the fuss he made when competing with Joe Hart. Of all “old” keepers on the market I can’t think of a more surprising suggestion coming from you.
Now since we got Silvestre, VdS could have been an option. I’m sure he could have taught a thing or two to our Poles.
As for Fabianski let’s continue to agree to disagree. Fab and Woj had the exact same stats last season which put them ahead of most keepers in the league and they’re at the age where they will only progress.
I have not looked closely at DeGea but I watched Casillas a lot when he started and both our Poles are definitively on his track.
The ship has sailed with Given so the long and short is we will never know. All I do know is that this time last year he was definitely on the radar as he failed a medical with us.
I am still far from happy with the keeper situation though. Chezzer is a massive gamble which ever way you look at it, and the back up is just not even close to being good enough. I don’t remember who mentioned it earlier but I agree with the comment that if the keeper situation comes back to haunt us again then we will a total laughing stock.
About Cesc, if he isn’t on the plane to Cologne I’m pretty sure he’s off.
Matt. I know you are king of stats but Flappy just is not good enough for me. He is a decent shot stopper but for me that is about it. He also makes those around him panic. If your point is that he is on a par with Chezzer then I would suggest that says we have real problems rather than championing his cause.
My point re Given is that in my opinion he is head and shoulders above what he have in reserve.
tabs,
Regarding being a feeder team. Ashley Cole is a prime example. Adebayor is another. Vieira was a prime example pre stadium and so too Henry.
Our two best players want away this summer and our third, RvP, will want away next summer. Why? Two reasons. Money and titles. We don’t compete atthe high end of the transfer market (money). We don’t pay competitive salaries at the top end (money). And now we don’t win things anymore (money). Prospectitive players and current players see both the lack of money and titles (recently) and see better prospects elsewhere in both the money and titles department. And who could blame them? A player’s career is short. They want both money and titles whilst they are still young enough to get them.
We do not retain our best players in their prime any more. And the longer we don’t win the worse it can get. That’s why six long years does matter. Six years would not have been tolerated at the big clubs in Spain and Italy. Not even Germany. No way, no how. No matter what the excuses.
In short. We haven’t won recently because of the stadium. True. It costs money. Money that could have been spent on squad improvement. Until the stadium is paid off I don’t think we will win. Have we won while the stadium debt has been around? No.
And the longer we go without winning, the less attractive we are to prospective players and our current players. Once we pay off the stadium it frees up money for players. That improves the squad and we win trophies. We stop the tag of not winning anything since xxxx and start getting and retaining better players. Our current rigid salary structure expands once we pay off the stadium.
Like many things in life, it’s about the money. Couldn’t Silent Stan become our Sugar Daddy?
Snir, do you honestly expect Cesc to be pulling on an Arsenal shirt next season????????????
@Steve T: The back 4 has the best defensive record in open play last season with our first-choice injured for all but a handful of games, our second choice a newcomer who had to endure a rotation of his partner constantly and our third-choice a young player back from a year-long injury.
If anything, in context, our defensive record was stellar. Where we failed is exactly where improvements are the easier to make.
Not that a better player would not be welcome. But as usual all the suggestions made by the malcontents would be steps back. Yes a Vidic type of player would be most welcome. But Samba or Jagielka? Please…
As for the laughing stock bit I don’t remember anyone laughing at us last year until our collapse.
Stingy. I think you make some good points but I do not think we need a sugar daddy. I said at the start of last season we did not need to bring many in. Then we lose players, the weaknesses were not addressed and we all know the outcome.
If we could have kept the players we would want to keep this season then the squad does not need a major overhaul. Just the additions that have been spoken about by almost everyone.
@Steve T: Do you know for sure today Cesc will be playing for Barca next season? By all accounts these days he’s really pissed off at Barca and their insulting offers and Arsene has given Barca until the end of the month to either pay the right price or wait one more year.
I’d be really curious if you’ve read otherwise.
Matt, tell me the truth. Do you think out keepers are good enough?
Our defense at set peices was as bad as I have ever seen. Now that is not only the fault of the back four. The cover from midfield at times was shocking. Our lack of leadership at set plays was there for all to see. AW even accepted that himself after the Wigan game. He knows where the problems are. We had no leaders at the back last season. You can quote stats all day long but whilst the game is still played by men on grass I would suggest that they do not give you the full picture.
Matt, as I said earlier. Just my opinion. I do not think he will be an Arsenal player on Sept 1st. I sincerely hope I have never been more wrong, but my gut feeling is that he will go. I also think that Cesc going is possibly the one way we can hold on to Nasri. This is by assuring him that he will play regularly in a more central role. Even then I am far from convinced that he will be an Arsenal player on the 1st Sept.
Steve T @181 – Fully agree.
And I’m not saying that Given was the only answer. But the template is sound and just. That being, the alternate GK should be an experienced GK. One like Given. Reina, even better. And in a competition the experience may have won out.
If our season goes to shits because of an inexperienced GK without an alternative we will all be swearing to Kingdom Come. And once September starts we cannot change the situation and get an experienced proven GK before January. Having endured woeful GKing, we should know better. Should we not?
And to compare De Gea with two stellar seasons to the somewhat mixed half season of Chezzer? C’mon … different class.
I’m pulling for Chezzer, don’t get me wrong, and I want to be proven wrong for our club’s sake. But it is too big a risk to not try to upgrade that most vital position on the pitch, at least through competition if nothing else, than to just hope for the best. Surely.
Stingy ‘ I really must get to bed so this is my last stab –
1. Ashley Cole – badly handled but with Clichy waiting in reserve and Gallas thrown into the mix , it looked like we had the better part of the deal until Clichy’s fuck up at Birmingham and his increasing propensity to switch off . Hindsight is a wonderful thing but this was not a case of being bullied by a ” bigger ” club .
2. Adebayor No !!!! A disruptive influence in the Dressing room and a non tryer in his last 12 months . Adequately replaced . Got 25m for a player who is inconsistent at best and is currently training on his own .
3. PV4 – absolutely not – in tears when we told him we were prepared to sell . Sold when he still had value and in the knowledge that Fab was coming through . Probably on balance the wrong decision , but hindsight is a wonderful thing . Sold when worries about the funding of the new stadium were at their height – nothing to do with being bullied by a bigger club .
4.TH14 – Again sold when he still had a resale value . Never the same player after he left , and often barracked by the Barca fans .
5. Fab – a completely unique situation where he wants to play for his hometown club , who just happen to be the best in the world at the moment . Nothing at all to do with being financially bullied .
6. Nasri – Arsenal are certainly not being bullied , but if City are silly enough to pay 25m we’ll survive and probably be all the stronger for it .
7. V-P – Complete speculation on your part
Right I’m off – cheers for the chat fellas .
Insomnia. Decided to check the drinks. Fucking he’ll. Too many posts long and clever. I started but No chance of me reading them all or I am guaranteed no sleep, heh.
And fucking iPod autocorrect
Matt – There is not one sober person on earth who is not an Arsenal fan who would say we had the best defense from open play no matter what the stats say, pundit or otherwise. As some say, sometimes the stats lie. Better to believe your eyes.
And if either Chezzer or Flappy end up as the best keeper on the planet, which Iker is by the way, I will eat Wolfgang’s small balls π
Stingy @206
No you won’t !!
tabs,
All convenient excuses for me mate. And it has nothing to do with being financially bullied. I never used those words. But make no mistake we are becoming a feeder team. We certainly do not act like a big club. And actions speak louder than words. No matter how eloquent those words are. Full stop.
Our last big player we had whilst still in his prime was Henry. Fab will leave before his prime. Nasri too. The writing is on the wall for all those willing to open their eyes from a self inflicted misty haze. We have become a feeder team and operate within a certain segment of the market. We have been doing it quite well, so full props for that. But make no mistake, we’ve become feeder and are no longer abig club until proven otherwise. This is not an opinion. This is a Rafa phact as the proof is in the pudding. If you’re happy with the status quo than you are a better man than I. And to that I salute you and will drink to. Cheers wolfgang tabs smallballs. We can still drink and disagree and cheer the same team without venom π
Yes Steve I do think not only that our keepers are good enough today but that they will be much more than good enough in the future. If Barca can be the “best team in the world”TM with Valdez between the posts then certainly Woj and Fab can do the job for us.
I fully agree that the set pieces issue was the responsibility of the entire team as much as the CBs. My point is that this is something that can be addressed with the proper practice in training and the right attitude during the games. An excellent player would help but so far none of those who have been linked with us looks like the kind of player we’re after.
The same way the team has reached another level this past season (being able to overcome Barca, Chelski, United etc) I think there’s reasonable hope that our defense can improve significantly this upcoming season, specially considering we relied on 2 newcomers and a returning prospect who’ve all learned a lot.
SV: There’s plenty of Arsenal fans who don’t swallow the tabloid shit, so spare me the “we all know” bit. It’s not because it grates you that we weren’t the best defense from open play which means of all the teams in the league we shipped the least amount of goals during open play. That’s a fact the same way it’s a fact we shipped the most goals from set pieces. It’s a fact not an opinion.
Ans also spares us the bit about woeful GK last season. You know who was woeful last season and who is curiously mum about a transfer to Spain to match his “ambitions”? Reina who was among the worst goalkeepers last season. Not only by all significant numbers but by all the Pool fan’s accounts.
Steve T – I honestly don’t know what to think re Cesc. I was sure he was off last season and he wasn’t so I’m basing my slim hopes on the fact that you can never know when it comes down to our club.
Matt – I don’t know where you were during the last couple of months, but if you keep on saying everything I say and think, my presence here isn’t needed π
@Snir: unfortunately work gets in the way, I still find the time to read religiously everyone’s contribution but can’t really contribute as much as I would like. It’s on my todo list though π
Speaking of, I wanted to tell you how much I concur with your suggestion to hire a psychologist/consultant. What made this season horribly frustrating was that “we all know” we finally had the talent it takes to grab silverware. Unfortunately the players collapsed mentally and that led to a disastrous end of the season with an underachieving 4th spot to show for. While some advocate new players to address the situation and I welcome good additions to the team, I don’t think a few players alone can prevent a general collapse. I am pretty confident the players are fully aware that their failure is the result of each one of them failing himself first and then the team but I’d love nothing more than having someone whose job it is to maintain them in the right state of mind when the going gets tough. Let’s hope this call will be heeded, after all it’s a tiny fraction of our budget compared to everything else.
Morning all. ‘Ere it got a little warm in here last night – i’ll throw some windows open, make a cuppa and add my half o’ quids worth.
Come on it’s a given Shay sure is a quality international keeper – and surely we could’ve invited him to compete for the top spot (with the talented Chesney), and he was cheap – but ‘e’s gone over to the other side now – so there.
And I’m with those that say we need another decent C.H. at the club – 2 of ours are injury prone – and centre halfs generally pick up cards along the way – which means SQUEALachi!!! is never too far from the 1st team as things stand – and sorry fella but that’s points dropped.
I’ve an idea that come the season’s start there’s not gonna be much in it between the top team’s 1st elevens – so the team with the best back-up nicks the prizes … especially come Feb, March, April etc. when loss of form occurs and injuries and suspensions start to bite – and our challenge for titles starts to dribble down the drain again.
Why not try and buy the best back-up? An experienced LB, an experienced keeper, another CH, and possibly a CF – not easy, but not impossible.
Ureds!
@ And Lester
Why not try and buy the best back-up? An experienced LB, an experienced keeper, another CH, and possibly a CF β not easy, but not impossible.
in all probability, no LB, no keeper, a CB probably…..but then again that’s pure conjecture π
Matt. Thank you for introducing me to a whole new experience. In all of my Arsenal world you are the only person I have ever come across who believes the quartet of keepers we have at the club is good enough. So once again, thank you.
Snir. It is just my gut feeling re Cesc. Last year we issued big firm not for sale vibes. This year I just do not get that feeling.
@ Steve T
i get your point about our keepers being good enough but don’t you think a Given could have added a dimension of experience to our relatively young keepers.
Matt,
You love your stats, si? Well let’s talk stats. Your hope that our two Polish inexperienced GKs will pan out is just that. It is pure unadulterated hope. Blind faith really. Valdez has been shakey in the past, no doubt. But Valdez has won four Zamora trophies so far. And Reina is ahead of Valdez in the Spainish NT pecking order. By the way, I believe Spain won the last WC and Valdez three of the last six UCLs. I suppose Valdez is a poorer risk between the pipes than two totally unproven inexperienced Polish kids. Don’t let the Rafa phacts get in the way of your logic … however illogical. Your poor argument suggests that you think both Szcz and Flappy are better than Valdez. Read it again. They are your words. Poor judgement on your part mate. Look at the stats on this one. I implore you. Drinking spiked Pravda Kool-Aid certainly is no proof.
And if you think our set piece problem could have been easily resolved then surely we could have rectified it over the course of a ten month season. Somewhere. Surely. It’s more than just coaching. And whatever your stats say from open play I will tell you that ManU were a much better team defence from open play than us. Their CBs v our CBs … please. Get your nose out of the stat book for a second and open your eyes. Please. And drop the Kool-Aid. Would ManU have lost a four goal lead at Newcastle? Case closed.
I appreciate your passion and love for the club but there are words for your truly unfounded faith in our overall defense … blind faith with cataracts.
And a cynical man would say that we were so good (statistically) defensively during open play was that we let in too many goals from set pieces and therefore no need for the opposition to score otherwise π
And we need more than just greater mental strength and some voodoo spiritual priest to soothe our flock of weak minded youngsters. If that were the problem it would have been addressed midseason just like our set piece problem. But it wasn’t. Both are the end products of relying on young, inexperienced players v the competition at the top end. It would be logical to assume that more experienced players are more mentally sound than inexperienced ones. But I could be making a leap of faith. Or a connection of dots called logic.
Things won’t change by sheer hope alone π
We can still drink and disagree vociferously I hope. I know I can. Cheers for your input. My opinion is akin to my arsehole … I have one of each π
Up the Arse!!!
Even if we lose both Cesc and Sami, don’t get another CB this window better than Squillaci, don’t get GK insurance, and don’t reinvest Cesc and/or Sami cabbage, I will still cheer on the Arse … maybe with a cigarette and a blindfold though.
Nevertheless!!! Up the Arse!!! And that is not a sexual invitation for Wolfgang’s small balls. No sir!!! Pass the rice please.
We’re all disappointed at the way last season turned up, if not last seasons and it feels like you are more than most. But you know what Steve you should give a thought about cutting the “we all know”, “you’re the only one” and the similar passive aggressive bits that have become a trademark of your posts of late. Your points are well taken, you arguments are salient but the repetition only detracts from your message.
And yes I’m glad and proud we are playing Woj and Fab rather than has-beens like Given and Schwarzer if that’s the only alternative we’re allowed to consider. Both are miles ahead of Almunia and Schwarzer last season (as in 10 more goals saved per season) with a huge margin of progression ahead of them. I can’t wait to see how they’ll play next season to tell you the truth.
Whether I’m the only one or not is the least of my concern. I spend most of my professional life cleaning up the results of groupthink so I’m acutely aware of the value of the “we all know” mantras.
‘And if you think our set piece problem could have been easily resolved then surely we could have rectified it over the course of a ten month season. Somewhere. Surely. Itβs more than just coaching. And whatever your stats say from open play I will tell you that ManU were a much better team defence from open play than us. Their CBs v our CBs β¦ please. Get your nose out of the stat book for a second and open your eyes. Please. And drop the Kool-Aid. Would ManU have lost a four goal lead at Newcastle? Case closed. ‘
They did concede a two goal lead in injury time in one game. And we only conceded a two goal lead against Newcastle, Phil Dowd did the rest π
It’s easily forgotten that nobody really had a good defence last year – even in mid-April I think we’d still conceded fewer goals than Man Utd (we certainly had done for parts of March).
And Cowdenbeath plays St. Mirren today in a friendly. How about them apples, eh, BtM and zico. Small world this.
SV – you’re so right, stats on their own offer a trite, shallow, half-picture at best analysis of complex situations … e.g. stats like we’ve won nothing in 6 years. Up The Arse!
Charlie,
The blame it on Phil Dowd mantra is something that is also quite old and lame. ManU would not have lost a four goal lead with Phil Dowd in the centre. No way, no how. Never. Slur Old Red Nose’s red nose would have exploded and turned the ‘Toon a crimson red had that happened.
ManU would not have lost a four goal lead with an overly biased South American referee at the ‘Toon. Nor would Chel$ki nor Citeh for that matter. That one biblical collapse says all there needs to be said about our supposed defensive (statistical) superiority from open play. Oi vey.
That’s right. Two goals from the spot are not from open play. They are set pieces. But defensive ineptitude from open play led to the set piece mastery. Kos was over eager and the first penalty was deserved. The second committed by Rocky was dubious.
Morning all,
zico way back @ #140 – glad to hear the legal team have been out to good use. Makes a change from them sucking other people’s blood π
Re: CBs – Cahill/Jagileka/Samba – all decent CBs, none of them outstanding and being pushed at us via the press first and foremost. If we signed any of them it would make us all feel good in terms of spending money but that’s about it, I think. Far from convinced any would make a big differecne to our defence. Delighted to be proved wrong. We need to do something in that department to help ensure that we can finish a season as strongly as we have started the last two. But it’s a mental approach first and foremost and it goes right through the team. One strong leader anywhere in the park (ideally in the middle) would perhaps make the world of difference. Over to you Arsene….
Catch you later folks…
Just listen to the majority of you fine lot. Full of excuses, what ifs, but ifs, hopefullys, full of potential, if my auntie had bollocks she’d be my uncle bollocks. These are the words of smaller clubs.
We need the voices of lions. Al Davis of Oakland Raider ownership fame had just one phrase, “Just win baby!”
We need more of the latter and a lot less of the former.
*sip, sip, sip … falls over from drink and exhaustion*
*and from the fine Swedish vixen of my dreams, so willowy, with long golden locks, firm breastisis, and a firmer, finer bottom … I believe her name is Helga*
Manalive – apologies all round but – stats and mental approach = modern day mumbo jumbo imho.
Quality players throughout the squad (Arsene’s canny development of the kids + a few experienced/quality signings now we’ve got a bit of cash again – IG says so), and a commitment to play for our great club, and watch us fly back to the top of the tree. As the last 6 years shows us, we’re really not that far away already –
Ureds!
Have you lot stopped posting now? π
According to today’s Guardian Le Boss has a ‘substantial’ transfer kitty. Oh yeah. Right. And I believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Bigfoot, Nessie, and aliens abducting Wolfgang’s small balls in the middle of a wet December night in Stoke. Give it a rest love.
*caught thinking aloud in my dreams again*
SV: My argument on the keepers is that both Poles are better than Valdes at the same age (and beyond), on par with Casillas at the same age but I could be wrong, after all it’s only my impression.
As for the league’s best defense in open play I understand you don’t like the fact that it’s Arsenal. You’ll get used to it in the years to come.
Her’s the list of goals conceded for the top 4 after 24 games just before our collapse:
United 22
Arsenal 23 (vs 28 the previous season)
Citeh 20
Chelski 21
Considering we’re the most offensive team in the league with our first-choice CB unavailable and 2 newcomers to the league plus a recovering prospect, being behind the most defensive team by only 3 goals and 5 goals ahead of where we were last season was a very good performance at that point and there wasn’t too much to rectify yet.
The problem is the collapse, not what the team is capable of (finally).
If you believe that experience is what’s needed, certainly a full season for Kos and Djourou will do them a lot of good. Will it be enough, we can’t say yet but the trend is obviously favorable.
PS: what you call “my numbers” is simply a numerical representation of facts. You can critic them all you want that won’t make the facts disappear. As Steve says, they’re only partial and do not represent everything but what they represent stands.
Alright, I’ll say it again.
Don’t think for one second that I think our 4 CBs that we have at the club are enough (hell, after seeing Bartley arrange the Rangers defense on set pieces last season I’d prefer him over Squillaci).
But, I’m just saying that everybody is saying, let’s get a CB but the option (realistic ones) are that rosy are they?
Out of the options, I’m not too sure I’d prefer a new CB.
Just like TS said, we’ll feel good that we spent money but none of the three are better than what we have.
And Steve – I get exactly what you’re saying re Cesc cause I feel the same way and feel that way ever since that AW presser saying he will only keep him if he’s happy but will keep Nasri in any means necessary.
Something was fishy with that presser.
Stingy, if you don’t like it you can always start posting on a Man Utd site, because you are starting to sound conspicuously like an anti Arsenal pro-Ferguson apologist.
For the record, the manically depressed don’t get anywhere near the HT, not even in scum class.
@Lester #221 good one π
Have a round on me guys, I’m hoarse and down to my last one.
Yes Matt. 24 out of 38 league games. Titles are not won in the 24th round. Not even in Portugal.
I’ll continue my slumber now.
What I’m trying to say at 230 is try and look at it in a realistic way. Who would you bring to improve the CB situation? Not just spend money to please the fans but really improve the situation.
And please take into consideration that none of Cahill/Samba/Jagielka would agree to come as Squillaci’s replacement (meaning 4th choice).
Basically, I’m asking you to try and be AW for a short while π
And for the ones that will say “well he’s getting 6M to solve those issues” bare in mind that he’d get bombarded if he’d bring anyone who isn’t A) Experienced. B) Well-Known.
So you gotta take that into consideration too.
SG – there has to be somebody out there better than SQUEALachi!!! – i like our 3 leading CH’s ( thou as i said 2 are a little injury prone and all will probably pick up suspensions at some point in the season).scouts/ managers etc get paid to find and sign players – it doesn’t have to be the 3 you seem to think we’re restricted to.
UP The Arse!
zico – If you’re going to be a Happy Train Nazi … *you can fill in the blanks mate*
SV – well done on invoking Godwin’s Law!
Matt. I apologise if my opinion offends you. But that us what it is. My opinion. I speak for no one else, nor would I be as arrogant to do so. But as I said, I do not know of anyone who thinks that our current crop of goal keepers are good enough. I say that as someone who lives and works amongst Arsenal fans, as a season ticket holder of some years and ad someone who attends ad many away games as possible. I know what I watch and hopefully form an educated opinion around that.
I would never discount stats but clearly I do not place anywhere near as much importance on them as you do. I fully respect that.
For me many expressed views last year about our weaknesses. These, in my humble opinion were not addressed. I said last September that I would be massively disappointed if the failings that I and many others had highlighted ending up costing us. Clearly they did. My view is that the lack if investment has lead to others at the club questioning our ambition. I think this is destabilizing and has a negative effect. We are constantly told there is money to spend by the board so clearly lack of funds is not the issue.
As I said Matt, purely my opinion. I don’t ask you to agree with it, just accept it and don’t be offended by it.
Re Given. Do I think he is the answer? No I don’t. But I do think he is head and shoulders above what we have as back up.
Godwin? Godwin who??
Just a heads-up for Snir and Steve:
And now Quique Pina, Udinese’s Spanish representative, has confirmed that the Catalan giants are on the verge of completing the transfer for Alexis Sanchez.
Pina, who is also president of Granada, said: “Alexis has decided to play in Spain and now the matter is practically closed.”
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11854_7034003,00.html
No way Barca’s going to spend 40 millions for our captain after splashing even more on Sanchez. It must be extremely infuriating for Cesc though.
Is Godwin an experienced CB or goaler? If so, sign’em up.
It’s not about a 4th CB. It’s about upgrading the position. Period.
I say Mertesacker and Sakho are doable. Will it be done? An entirely different kettle of fish. Arsene’s too parsimonious in my books to pull the strings. If this turns into another Bill Murray movie this year, Arsene’s arse probably should just depart before the pink slip. The broken record is skipping the same old song too often. How many lives will he get? Cats get nine right? So I suppose he’s got a couple more left after this year …
No offense taken Steve. I welcome your opinions and enjoy reading your posts, it’s just the “we all know” bits that trigger my personal alarms, I guess that’s my professional conditioning. I’m surprised you really don’t know anyone at least OK with Woj though.
And Lester, I know they get paid for it, but how many well known experienced available players do you know?
You do know that if Wengers will bring a good CB from the German or French league who isn’t that known he won’t be off the hook.
Matt – take a look at this.
I don’t believe everything in the media but PHW has a love affair with the daily star and look what he has to say.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/201853/Barcelona-not-that-keen-on-Fabregas-says-Arsenal-chairman/
Contrary to what people would have you believe, Barca only offered one bid and not three like the press say (the one bid being 26M instead of the three that are being reported of 27, 31 and 35).
SV – I’m not too sure how available Sakho and Mertesacker are but if they are, it’d be great to get one of the two.
I’m just not too sure AW would go for it, after it’s been reported he’s looking for some EPL experience.
SG – It’s not about pandering to the fans/media – Arsene’s too smart for that. It’s about getting quality cover in key positions for a long hard season.
How many of us knew about Kos or TV before our scouting network unearthed for us, and our fine manager signed them? And who in the media or amongst our fans criticizes those signings?
pardon – ‘them’
Snir: Nothing’s done yet but the signs are not there for Cesc to move to Barca. We’ll see what happens in the next few days.
That said I’d rather PHW kept mum on the topic considering his propensity for blunders.
@Lester: and considering what happened with Joel Campbell I’m ready to bet we won’t know about our next signing until the ink had dried…
SG,
Who says that those three EPL CBs are better than my Frenchie and Germanic CBs? The pomp pomp waving English media, that’s who. Just because a CB plays in the EPL does not give him an unquestioned superiority of some sort. And non EPLers tend to be cheaper π We do cheap quite well, no? I wonder if the catering in the club level is done with cucumber sandwiches or with proper eats?
Lester, I’m not saying the fans and media criticize AW for Kos and TV, but look at what NOT bringing a CB and “giving in” to the fans has done to his legacy…
People are actually thinking he isn’t the right man for the job anymore.
I just think that with all his stubbornness maybe AW will give in (not that I want that to happen, but maybe he will, he looked shattered at the end of the season, it was as if he was saying in his expressions, “I’ll buy whatever the fans want, just give me some peace and quiet”).
I fear Sakho would be mostly unavailable, especially now that the Qataris have moved in.
Obviously the fact that he extended his contract last year (I think) and wasn’t much linked with rumours away from the club ——— hang on, that’s a good sign for us, isn’t it? π …………
SV @251, look at my 246 comment, that’s your answer π
Matt at 241. I hope you are spot on and that Cesc stays. I also hope that if that is true that Cesc realises what Barca actually think of him and he decides to commit to a club where he is loved.
Re chezzer. I have never said I don’t rate him. I rate him very highly. I think he has the potential to be a great. But at the moment it us just that. Going into the season with him as number one and with no credible back up is a massive gamble. If it back fires then I believe the vast majority will be merciless in their condemnation.
Just my opinion.
SG – If Le Boss is willing to buy what’s he waiting for? August 28th? Or even more last minute until the Cesc saga is resolved. I’m getting the opinion that all of our signings are waiting on what happens with Cesc. It’s a very reactive v proactive approach.
Arsene’s on pretty high wages is he not? Higher wages in relation to his peers than his players’ in relation to their peers. I’d bet a dollar to a donut that that is true without doing the research on this one. Just sayin’. That’s a bit cheeky ain’t it and hypocritical to boot. We like to complain that Nasri isn’t worthy of a raise for only a half season of production worthy of a raise. Now extend that logic to Le Bosses’ recent performance. It’s all in the way you look at things friends.
SG – All evidence suggests that Arsene is a man who very much knows his own mind – and I would say it’s impossible to second guess the kinds of things you’re suggesting he had in his head at the end of last season
I just hope we go into the new season with quality cover in all positions so that we give ourselves a fighting chance of nicking the big ones…so that Arsene can tell the brigade of short-sighted idiots lined up against him to eff off
And as much as i’m enjoying swapping opinions with you i must eff off now myself.
Adios amigo
Up The Arse!
I must however be missing the earlier sustained delivery of trophies that Nasri contributed to…..
As I have missed of Wenger for the past six years. Maybe AW is deserving of a pay reduction based on recent performances …
We all whine about players being overpaid but what of managers? Very little whining of wages there me thinks. And in some circles their wages are not justified.
Right then. I’m off too. Let the regular day time nutters drive the bus π