Negotiating The Peace, But Not There Yet
Oct 27th, 2011 by 'holic
Satori Kato has a lot to answer for. We live in an instant world. It started with instant coffee before someone could shout, “Not now Kato, you fool!” The space race demanded communication channels that worked in an instant across great distances. The advances in telecommunications and computing that accompanied those journeys to the stars have brought us to a situation where we expect quality in everything we encounter, instantly.
Twenty years ago, less than that in truth, the vast bulk of Arsenal supporters probably couldn’t tell you when the AGM was, and fewer could tell you what actually went on. If I am honest I doubt whether too many actually cared that much. The public face was the football team. You paid small sums to go and watch them in the flesh, while the long-distance supporters in Devon, Cornwall, Wales, even the odd nutter in Scotland, would catch their share of Arsenal on occasional Match of the Day or Big Match highlights. It was all about football, and as long as the bankers on the board kept us solvent and bought a player or two now and again that was good enough.
It is remarkable to consider just how recently we supporters knew our place, and let the privileged few worry about keeping the business behind the club going. There may have been precious little tugging of forelocks, but those who stood in the wind and the rain on concrete terraces reckoned if Bob Wall and Ken Friar, proper Arsenal men both, were in favour of those at the top then Arsenal was secure. Those in the directors box swigged their brandy and puffed at their cigars while we supped our pints of gnats and choked on our filter-tipped.
It is more remarkable to consider a world in which those attending the AGM should be treated to accounts of a pre-season tour to meet our passionate fans in Asia, our ‘partnerships’ with the likes of Carlsberg and Indesit, over ten million ‘followers’ on Facebook, and state of the art medical facilities being constructed. Most remarkable though, is the degree to which those attending the meeting would go to show frustration, even outright disrespect, at the failings of last season and the perception that we have failed to make the necessary investment over the summer after a ticket price hike.
Let me say straight away that I don’t feel it is a bad thing that people should feel entitled to quiz those in charge, to hold them to account for their actions as they have temporary custody of our club. That such frustration should spill over into ridicule and a degree of hostility was a little sad. It was interesting though that the messages being sent out from the platform were largely about the current board being fans themselves, the pride they have in our values, and most pertinently of all the desire to see the fans unite behind the team.
This was a meeting of two bodies of people, the disciples of Arsenal on one side and the current archbishops, negotiating the degree to which such discontent should be expressed in our church. In an instant world the clamour for instant success, for instant solutions to problems, for instant signings, and instant resignations was expressed, and broadcast, instantly. Countless followers of those inside the meeting grasped the tweets on their instant communications devices (thanks all, you know who you are). The world witnessed democracy, Arsenal style, in action. And with what outcome?
I don’t know if anything has changed. Arsene has probably persuaded a few of the wavering faithful back on message with his stirring, apparently unscripted speech. Quite apparent it was though, that those who call for action, change even, were feeling no different after the piece had played out. Attitudes have hardened to a degree that the divisions between the club’s supporters will remain until we achieve some tangible on-field success. In that respect football is still the primary focus of those who nail their colours to the Arsenal mast.
In a world where so many are critical of the self-sustaining business model, the lack of involvement of Red and White Holdings or David Dein, the net profit made by the player trading account, executive bonuses, and the poor commercial deals in place, it is amazing what difference a piece of silverware would make. Instantly!
177 Responses to “Negotiating The Peace, But Not There Yet”
first drink!
a round of black sheep on me.
‘holic, i read something about this being “the most opaque agm *ever*”, and i had very similar thoughts…and the only reason anyone’s now interested is because we’ve had such a sustained run of relative success for arsene’s time at the helm. any sign of weakness, any sign of non-success, and the media froth it into a cuppa the masses drink down for their daily soundbites and debate strategies. it’s bitter and vile, yet so many drink it as though it were water at the end of a desert trek…
and by the by, i meant a round of riggwelter black sheep, for your information π
Bother…late again…
Now to read the post…
‘Holic
Some say that PHW hasn’t got a clue-seau. Does that statement bear close inspection? π
Evening again Snowy! From the last drinks, feeding BBQ ribs to a Chavski supporting vegetarian sounds like a bit of a challenge to me…
Nice to see the opening reference picked up on, TS π
I don’t think it is any secret that I am appreciative of what PHW and his family have done for the club down the years. However I am surprised that he hasn’t been persuaded to let Ivan schmooze the restless for the Q&A.
Next year perhaps?
Guinness with a Jameson chaser!
Cheers ‘holic!
Hey Dubs.
Actually tonight I’m London Pride with Laphroaig.
‘Holic @ #6
Agreed re: PHW. I listened to all the AGM speeches on Arse player this evening. None particularly impressed, not even Arsene. PHW unfortunately came across as a bit old and doddery, which to be fair, he is. Ivan aside, to me all the speakers seemed very nervous (understandable) but also not particularly well prepared. Can’t help but feel that Stan missed an opportunity to show us what he’s really made of, or perhaps he did? However, I don’t really mind so much. For me, it’s the performances on the pitch that matter the most.
Stan’s act was strange alright. Either that or he really wasn’t well-briefed.
I don’t want a ‘good ole boy’ at the helm, although to be fair he leapt right in to defend PHW on that dreadful Dein question.
Nice analysis. ‘holic. I was impressed by Arsene’s speech but disappointed by the soundbites on SSN from departing shareholders which were uniformly negative. We had a mismanaged summer, lost 2 of our talents, have work to do on commercial revenue, have had to take a 6.5% rise on the chin and have had a poor start to the season.
However I am sure we don’t know everything that went on (the Arsenal way) and we have a team that has dug in and shown spirit/ It’s time for a bit of balance out there, much like you have fostered in this establishment. A bottle of your Blackbush to share round to toast good luck on Saturday, barman.
Interesting post Holic.
Only the odd nutter from Scotland? π That’ll be BtM then!
Thanks to the Internet people are better educated, information more widespread and people are more willing to look into things than they were previously. Thankfully not Arsenal supporters are ignorant, passive and disinterested in the fine details of their club (cough) only some of them.
Maybe it’s about time YOU remembered that the board are spending OUR money and should therefore be accountable to US.
Haha,
Now then ‘holics, time to turn the guns outward again.
Who the fuckity fuck does this Bruce Buck cunt think he is. He may have progressed to chairman since assisting in the formation of Cuntski in 2003, but obviously he has no more class than the fucking polypropylene twats who man the Matthew Harding Stand these days.
Beat the crap out of Arsenal? You fuckwit. Thanks for giving us something to pin up in the dressing room wall you piece of shit.
Arsenal, Arsenal, DO YOUR JOB!
Pete,
Did you miss this bit?
I donβt feel it is a bad thing that people should feel entitled to quiz those in charge, to hold them to account for their actions as they have temporary custody of our club
I don’t hold with doing that disrespectfully.
Heh zico @ 12 π
From the Arsenal Gent on Twitter in reference to ‘Holic’s remarks @ #14
“One suggests that the manager reads out the last paragraph in the dressing room on Saturday.” http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/oct/27/chelsea-defeated-freehold-stamford-bridge?cat=football&type=article
Is downright c*ntery a pre-requisite for ANY employee of Chelski???
A very sage post βholic. And bang on the money. Absolutely loved the Pink Panther reference. But then again, I have 3 cats.* So I would π
And βholic and TS β with you both on the AGM. No-one seemed very prepared. Comms Team, you just lost a few Brownie points there. And someone needs to tell Stan that itβs THE Arsenal.
* None of them are pink and I do realise theyβre not panthers. Iβm odd but not actually mad. Just for the record and allβ¦
Thanks snowy. I have to say the Pink Panther films are a personal favourite. Says a lot about a man does a love of Sellers.
Immature old fuckwit, mainly π
Have you got a rrruuuuume?;-)
….. for my minki
I too watched the speeches at the AGM and Gazidez, Kronke and Wenger did look nervous. This is what happens if your not used to having to explain your performance on and off the pitch.
Performance off the pitch I was please with and the club should be commended for that. But I have to say I never heard anything to make me feel we will improve on last season.
Was I expecting to much from an AGM?
I think you share a reduced level of expectation with many MistaKen. That should help the club, and partly explains why the team have been so well supported this season.
The goodwill extended to a team we are making allowances for doesn’t stretch to the management in all cases. Understand the frustration, but hate the disrespect and ignorance.
And yes, I am a hypocrite. At Fulham I was one of the “Spend some fucking money” choristers.
Great post Holic , both balanced and supportive .
I fear however , that in a world of perceived and invented “fact” , instantaneous communication , and misconceived judgement , even a trophy win would only allay the grotesque parody of support that Le Grove and their ilk parade until the next defeat .
As evidence , I present to you Pete @13 . To use Pete’s own words is he passive ? No . Disinterested ? No , because it gives him a sense of his own wholly misplaced sense of self worth . Ignorant ? Almost certainly .
The case rests M’lud .
Great work at the back-end of the last set of drinks from Dr Z , Trev TS , and Snowy . Drinks on the Bar fellas .
kronke owns the the rams in the nfl,where you get same money every year,hes spent nothing on the team and they been poor for years now.this year 0-6 so if you excepting him to splash the cash be ready to be disappointed.
Thers is no need to talk so much. Deliver it on the pitch and the self sustaining model will speak for itself.There can be no better way than to eat Chelsea 2-1/1-0.
I hope Park gets the nod ahead of Arshavin and Chamak if we need more fire power up front at some point in the Chelsea game
Now obviously I don’t want to take anything away from the fine football related debate tonight, but I just can’t shake off a mental image of the following:
Clouseau (having been bitten by a dog): I thought you said your dog does not bite?
Hotel clerk: That was not my dog.
Never gets old….
TS I blame you and your ‘minki’ talk damn you, you’re a bad influence. The pair of you π
Love Google, time to think of the bus stop in Fulham. Lively up yourself…
The rare version. Excellent!
Heh Snowy we aim to please π
Thanks also for your kind words in your final drink on the previous post. Arsenal Gent is an absolute hoot, isn’t he?
*dons moustache, magnifying glass, pale mac and trilby whilst practicing awful French accent*
Is it possibly dissenters are emboldened by the sheer weight of support they receive on social media sites, am not sure but a thick ear would have entailed a lot of the comments if they came in the environs of the Emirates on matchday. Anyone can have an opinion and does not seem to matter if your right or wrong its still up there in lights so to speak. I actually really like twitter but sometimes there seems to be a hell of a lot of nothing talked about. Nice to see Ken Friar honoured he seems quite a humble man. Great post as always.
Ken is THE Arsenal man these days, Noel.
Tabs – That Blitzkrieg goal was against AZ Alkmaar. We won 4-1. π
Holic – loved the report.
I do feel though that although Arsene’s speech wasn’t scripted, there was a lot he didn’t answer and most of what he said could be refuted quite easily.
I know I would have refuted it had I been there.
This for instance is unacceptable IMO.
“We were also not very lucky with the injuries we had. The overall performance was not as bad as it had been judged. We managed to get over the line and qualify again for the Champions League.”
Managed to get over the line? The fact that we somehow managed to get 4th was a disgrace in itself but that’s another story. We didn’t manage to get over the line. We were lucky the season didn’t have more games.
“But just to keep the players we have to put our wages up so high that the financial situation becomes more and more difficult for us.”
You can’t say something like that and expect people not to look at it awkwardly when not only did we not keep our player but he left for wages (and yes, I know you can’t compete with City’s wages, but that renders the point he’s making quite irrelevant). I mean, you’re raising the ticket prices but not raising the wage structure (that again isn’t AW’s fault because he wants the maximum wage to 140K-150K a week and again he’s sticking up for the board here).
Cheers ‘holic, that was a great post and much enjoyed.
COF π
How are things, maestro?
Can’t figure out the love for Fat and Orange among some of the support (nothing against them, they are entitled to their opinion). From what I recall, Stan Kroenke has said more about his intentions for the club than Usmanov.
Heh ‘holic !
Fulham home next for me and the converted (11 year old Master Fin), keep the faith.
Evening gents,
Balanced post?? Hmmm….not really in my humble opinion.
That horrible Dein question? Disrespectful? You know my opinions on the Dein and red and white debate so need to tread over trodden ground but gentlemen please, this was where the shareholders, you know the people that partly ‘own the club’ get to ask question of those running the club.
Are you surprised that the shareholders were slightly annoyed? Really? Ticket prices, player sales, end of season promises not kept, humiliating results but still no right to ask the questions in a manner that’s ‘disrespectful’. Of course we should be grateful that the Lords take time to talk to the common folk. God forbid we should ask them uncomfortable questions without the ‘please’ and ‘m’lord’ courtesies.
Once again the issue of R&W board seat was dismissed out of hand which is ridiculous in a modern company. It really is. To my mind the silent one did very little to outline his long term plans for the club. The old issues remain unclear and unanswered and that’s piss poor when we had our worst start in decades and our heaviest defeat in history.
Your final paragraph has irked a little as well. Maybe I’m reading it incorrectly but it seems your suggesting our criticisms are solely based on the fact we haven’t won a trophy? We both know that’s rubbish holic and to subtly suggest fair-weather isn’t right. Facts are facts holic and we all know what they are don’t we? So spare me the winning a trophy would shut everyone up argument as the problems at the club cannot
be solved solely by a poxy carling cup. As for ‘instant’ you surely mean the action that was only taken after we had our pants pulled down in front of the football world.
That’s all m’lord.
Fin, I’ll be at Fulham. Come and have a pint (and a coke outside the railings).
NB, you and I sing from a different hymnsheet, but that is only to be expected in such a broad church, and I have no problem with that.
Agree entirely shareholders are entitled, duty-bound in fact, to question shortcomings, but some of the heckling and hostility today was not acceptable to me personally, and this blog is an expression of my feelings, followed by the drinks in which you can pull me up and express yours.
You are ‘selective’ with your facts, I should point out…
“I believe that we started at the Emirates with a very difficult environment because people were very skeptical but people understood two things – first of all if we do not get behind the team we have no chance.
And secondly, I think as well that people realized that this team has the right attitude and the right spirit.”
The first thing is the what I’ve been trying to say that I think the fan’s job is.
The boss makes it sound so much better π
Tabs @24 – thanks, hope they raised a smile π
Where’s the fun in not being a hypocrite? Or the humanity? π
Blimey. Posts coming Aaron Lennon style this week. Thick and fast. π
My message to those at the AGM? Same as always. Be the best you can be. If the board get to a stage where they can sit back and say yes, we are the best that we can be then that is fine by me. At the moment, in my humble opinion I feel that we are a long way short of reaching that level.
I’d like to know the average number of shares owned by the hecklers? I’d risk more than a ‘holic pound or two on it being less than 0.25 each. In life, experience tells you that it’s those with the smallest dicks who make the biggest boasts. Some people think making the tiniest of contributions entitles them to the biggest of says. Don’t they realise the negativity was just what the media were looking for? Thought AW’s speech was a perfect unscripted response.
Holic
Of cousre I’m selective with my facts, but then so are you and that’s ok. I just love the passion we all feel and the fact we have this forum to express that passion and thus I must thank you. Even if I am a moany git sometimes.
Please forgive me.
Super Tennants all round!!
Holic, In roughly 4 years time, the Emirites will be paid in full. Which means that Arsenal could be the richest team in the world, more than able to buy any player they fancy. The Fair Play Rule takes effect in what, 2 seasons from now? What does any of this have to do with now, I don’t know. But one thing for certain…if RVP is not retained, there will be hell to pay. Plus, we need to aquire a striker who is able to score from LONG distances, remember when we had those kind of players, it’s been awhile. OUR team has improved immensely since the start of this season and it would be a total sham if those in control of the purse strings screw up our chances now.
Yes it is all about the football for me. I live too far away not to have a supreme feeling of powerlessness about all managerial matters, although I suspect my feeling would be the same if I lived around the corner from the ground. Saturday 12:45 (London time) is fast approaching, and that will be 6:45 my time so it’s time to get some rest, get through the day tomorrow and make sure the coffee will be on for a rousing early morning Saturday. As ‘holic said, it is time to turn the guns outward again. Come on Arsenal!
@33: Snir, I think the whole issue of wages is a Catch 22. After Ashley Cole left for Chelsea, we decided that to keep our academy talents we would definitely have to reimburse them with more money.
But, when you do that you attract players that are only there for the money and will still leave if they get a better offer from somewhere else. If you pay them too little they leave anyway. You’re damned if you pay them lots of money, you’re damned if you don’t.
The problem is player character. Is there a psychological test that weeds out greedy cunts?
*stumbles into a waitress carrying a tray of drinks and knocks them all over*
“Always remember we are playing Arsenal, not mid-table Arsenal”, a back-handed compliment made by Clive Walker, while advising Chelsea. Gives me pride!
Hey, what’s up ABB? Finish your rounds of the hospital already?
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/6/2/lionspridei128569413915149611.jpg
π
CoR@ 50, That sums it up purrfectly! Off to the quackery, where I belong. Futball politics always get me worked up. I love this damm team so much, i’m willing to make a bloody fool of myself, to fight to the bitter end if need be. Cheers all and god bless.
CoR – I don’t mind playing high wages to academy players. I have a problem with not raising the maximum wage and then losing world class players.
I know the world has gone mad, but we have to move with it. Maybe not pay billions but a player like Cesc or RvP can not be on 90K a week when Yaya Toure earns 220K. I know that ain’t the best example cause it’s City, but don’t think that the players don’t take that as an example.
They do, and the club has to act on that.
ABB – Did I mention I love that moniker ;)? It reminds me of that magical night every single time you post! π
*playing = paying
LOL
Hola Holic and Holics,
Jack Daniels please and my shootin’ iron.
The idea of wanting one’s team to succeed or more bluntly win is not English nor confined to those who live in the UK. It is a universal concept and dates back to whenever our forebearers began scrapping for quarters hind and fore.
Living where and how I do I pay precious little to follow The Arsenal. $57.00 a year for the Arsenal player and $160.00 a season for Foxsport online. Hob-knobbing with you experts is scott free in a money sense. But I’m sure I am just as rabid a supporter as those of you who actually spend real money to see the event live and I very much want the team to do well. So when the club effs off the summer does not complete deals before the season and waits until after an 8-2 paste job by ManU(re) to make improvements I get snippy and wonder if Kato is on the job or has better things to do than mind the P’s and Q’s.
Being an Arsenal supporter doesn’t mean that you enjoy going 7 years without winning anything it means you endure it. And, being a good Gooner doesn’t mean that you need to remain forever un-critical(that’s being a good Nazi). I don’t agree with the Le Grove types I’m not even sure what precisely their agenda is and I love my team. But it has not always been up to the right business and even us droll, instantly gratified auslanders can cleary see that.
GAZ, I know your listening (not).
@scruzgooner Are you here in the Cruz?
Holics,
Something I was curious about.
What would you say if we signed Pavlyuchenko?
Does a player who signs for Spurs (albeit always being a very minor and fringe player in their team) automatically get into the “never want us to sign him” list?
Interested to see what you think.
If Pav’s not good enough for the LWCs why’d we have him π
Also, with regards to maximum salary Snir, we can only go so high. We can say “Alright Robin here’s 200k a week” which could be the highest we’d be able to go but other clubs can whisper to him, “Well here’s 300k a week” and if he’s about the money he’ll go, won’t he? Keeping up with the Joneses usually ends up with your house looking a mess…
In my opinion, it’s all up to the player at the end of the day. They already get good salaries but just because they aren’t getting the highest salaries in the league doesn’t mean they’re suffering for money. Keeping the players comfortable is as important as the size of their wages. Most players who are comfortable will stay at their clubs. And in most cases players who move around a lot are following advice from their agents….
By the way Snir, are you enjoying the “Making of Arsenal” book? How far in are you?
Sorry that should be “ArsΓ¨nal: the making of a modern superclub” ….
I think the Croat Olic has more to offer at a better price.
(Bayern Munich)
MUFC 1; MCFC 6. Rebroadcast set for recording on the VCR, and I’ll be excited to watch not having seen it live. Unfortunately, my cable package does not include Arsenal’s game on Saturday π so I will be madly searching for a stream right after I get up and make the coffee.
8ball, send me an email I’ll help you with that.
lcgooner – don’t rate Olic at all. Clumsier than Chamakh, and that’s tough to be!
CoR – The fact that Harry doesn’t know how to use doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player. PSG didn’t play Ronaldinho. Vieira didn’t get many games before Arsenal and neither did Titi.
I’m a firm believer in Manager/Coach – Player duos.
Some managers bring out the best in players.
As for wages. When you say comfortable, it can also be interpreted as competitive because why would a world class player settle for playing in a team where he won’t win (if he isn’t about the money like you say).
I don’t think City will even offer 300K, I do on the other hand think we have to raise it from 110-115 to somewhere in the 150K region.
I still feel it’s down to the mentality of the player though. Rooney was assured of winning stuff at Man Utd and yet he still held the club to ransom to almost double his wages so that he wouldn’t move to Man City (which didn’t look like they would win anything at the point in time). He was very well paid already and assured of winning stuff but still badgered for more money.
I agree world class players should be paid what they’re worth and I believe they will be at our club. But when their agents ask for more than we can pay out then what happens? Nasri was offered a very lucrative contract which he refused to sign. Can’t do much about that really.
I believe that the bank will be broken to keep RVP and also that RVP is loyal to the club and wants to stay. Keeping him comfortable would entail ensuring he’s surrounded by good quality players and I do believe we have signed quite a few this close season…
As for managers not rating players, I agree. However, while I like Pav for sending Birmingham down last season, I don’t think he would be a good fit for us. Seems like Crouch-lite to me…
I agree about the player’s mentality but of course you gotta find the balance.
If you don’t strengthen the team and offer RvP 115K while City offers 220K… I’m not too sure He’ll outright reject it.
I do believe that RvP wants to stay in principle, but I believe the club has to put a lot of effort in to keeping him as well.
I have seen how other teams score . The gunners take too many touches and engage in needless passing when shooting from long range will do.oterwise they coul be crowded out.
Btw don’t forget the defence as well. I expect Chelsea to respon after their QPR defeat.
Anything else Wolfgang?
We don’t want to forget anything, do we :)?
I have seen how other teams win games. They win by winning. We can’t we do that? If we don’t win we can’t win so let’s win. Wenger out. Graham back in. Sack the board.
*cries for bottle of milk*
Tell you what I am sick of, usual suspects claiming to speak for all Arsenal supporters. Just cos Whitcher, Flynn, Payton, Leopold, Le Grove, etc. have decided that the sugar daddy route is the only one worth following, does not make them right. Of course their media expertise and with the full weight of the Fat & Orange PR machine behind them, means they are just about all you hear.
Cunts still dont speak for me. And they never will do.
You lot drink too much at night.
That is all.
chamomile for all in the bar.
And Esso DOES speak for me π
I will also add that the irony that some ‘Dein-supporters’ complain about the board making money instead of spending it is not lost on me.
Waaah! I want to speak for everyone!
It’s not fair…
*stamps feet through the wooden floor*
Esso knows π
Reports made Stan sound disappointing!
A great sequence of fine posts barkeep.
You’re totally right to point out we live in a new communication era, now we all get to hear what our cousin’s neighbour’s friend’s barber’s failproof solution is to cure all the perceived ailments of our beloved club. But like at any time in history the ones you get to hear much more at the extremists. Be it religious, political, geographical or what-have-you extremism inspires considerably more activism than moderation. Extremists have yelled louder and more often through the ages, now they simply tweet and blog more often than the quiet majority. If you can be arsed visiting the sewers of the club you’d have noticed the know-it-all have planned intervening at the AGM since their anti-Arsenal protests petered out. Like any minority group their strategy is to puff themselves like a blowfish and cause disruptions to worsen the situation.
Home support has been much improved lately for all the reasons you said but in my view essentially because the antis are “voting with their feet”. A few more good results and they’ll be back booing and heckling the team at the first misplaced pass.
As much as the others were bland I found Arsene to be pretty eloquent and passionate (that is as much as he’s able to show). Certainly the home crowd has to take credit for pushing the team, as Steve said earlier the team looks to have the right attitude and certainly the supporters have played their part. If both the team and support can keep it up for the full length of the season we won’t have to worry about the capitulations of recent seasons. Even if many of the critics couldn’t lace a boot, everyone’s entitled to their opinion. Whatever one thinks coulda shoulda been done, if one wants the best for the team the best way to contribute is to push behind the team when they play (and that’s where I would draw the line between supporters and the rest).
If anything I can only agree with him that we’ve got more stars in the making than we ever had. LJW and Woj are obvious but Rambo, Walcott, Kos and TV aren’t far behind. Many others are full of promise, AOC, Ryo, Coq, Frimpong, Jenkinson, Campbell… And lest we forget if Song was playing for Chelski or United all the media would be fawning at the best DM in the league. We’ve come a long way since 2005 when Cesc was the only light.
One thing nags me though, the insistence on the great commercial operation that was the asian tour in preseason. It’s been hammered a lot recently but considering the little revenue impact I’m pretty sure they have realized how much it disrupted our preparedness which is why they are trying so hard to justify it. Hopefully next summer will be see improvements on all fronts including the preparation.
Esso said it much better. Should have shared a few pints with him instead of writing that post π
For the health geeks perhaps we should follow United and Chelski’s example and get the magic gloves at the Grove: http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2005/julaug/features/cool.html
Quality post ‘holic — again!
Great post Matt.
Ramming yesterday’s point home re: journos:
http://www.football365.com/transfer-gossip/7270410/The-35m-40m-Gossip
My problem is not so much what gets said at the AGM. It’s the proper forum to raise questions, even if some of them are disrespectful, or coming from those whose light of reason is particularly low-wattage (and therefore energy-efficient).
My problem is finding out that after the meeting Tim Payton’s been coming over all righteous on Sky Sports News.
When gooners actively undermine Arsenal through the media – be it Payton on the telly, Le Grove in the papers, or anyone briefing against the club to the press – it’s no longer about Arsenal, it’s about them.
Some people have made themselves popular and relevant by leading some kind of fucked-up crusade, and along the way they have become completely blind to the damage they are doing.
I’ll have anything with an umbrella in it, thanks…
Esso, are you implying that Flynn’s and Whitcher’s book is Le-Grove type of stuff?
If so, I ain’t gonna enjoy like I thought I would.
I think the whole first chapter is about David ******* Dein, Snir.
You can see the R&W taint.
After that it’s mostly OK, a decent read. I admit I was overall disappointed though as I was promised so much.
Snir. Never read it, so cant comment.
Good post Greg.
Right, leaving Leicester. Off down the M1, just in time to hit the stationary traffic on the M23. Laters ‘holics.
Fine, fine piece ‘holic – top o’ the shop. It captures, as well as anything i’ve read, the changing face of football – good, bad and ugly – for followers of a certain vintage.
Re the AGM – i think it’s a shame southern stan and the gang didn’t offer us a bit more meat to get our teeth into re the vision thing – i.e. is the money we have there available for the manager to spend on players/wages etc (unless i missed something), so that he can respond fully to the latest, and most aggressive, big cat in the premiership jungle, and so prevent us from having to dance to Mr. Mancini’s tune for the foreseeable..
Up The Arse!
WELOME TO THE NEW BB LIVE UPDATES TO. ALL THATβS. ARSENAL FROM. MEDIA WATCH. TO MINUTE BY MINUTE GAME UPDaTES AND DISCUSION. WITH oThEr GOONERS ROUND THE WORLD .ADD THIS PIN AND PASS IT TO OTHER GOONER ON BLACKBERRY 27C6CDC9 AND JOIN THe ARSENA MEDIA WATCH GROUP
SORRY ADMiN 4 THE CHeecky ad
Has anyone seen my 5 year old?
Oenger aaart!!
Having read the excellent account of the AGM on Arseblog News, the thing that comes across most strongly is the pompous, patronising and arrogant attitude of PHW.
He clearly thinks the fans should know their place and keep quiet.
If this man is the main conduit between Stan and the Board (which he probably is being Chairman) the owner being based in the US is unlikely to really understand the issues fully that the club faces.
Props to those attending who made their feelings clear, hopefully this will help clear out the complacency at the senior levels at the club.
@West upper #88
“the owner being based in the US is unlikely to really understand the issues fully that the club faces.”
Oh yeah, please explain why? No on there speaks English or if they do it is in a way that cannot transmit and/or fully comprehend English football.
Typical.
LCG You mis-interpret my point. I’m NOT implying that people from the US are uneducated and don’t speak English properly, I actually spend 4 months each year working there at the moment so I know that’s not the case.
The point is that Stan lives in the US, and I guess because of the time difference (8 hours Pacific time?) is of necessity not close to the day to day events at the club.
My point is that if one of his main sources of information about what’s happening is PHW he is unlikely to be well informed.
@West Upper
I agree with you that proximity does reduce the visecral experience and the connection to the in-country fanbase. But having an intimate knowledge of the club, it’s history and needs is not based on geographical location.
I think the off-season was completely mis-handled. Matt above@76 says it best. But it was as much screwed-up by the leadership there as anyhwere.
Stan is as informed as he wishes to be. I don’t believe he is a football fan much less an Arsenal supporter (in the emotional sense). He wants the team to do well because his money is in it and if it does well (in a money sense) without winning silverware for awhile that will do for him. It isn’t the attitude I like from my team’s owner but it stems from him being a money grubbing tycoon and not a Yank per se.
LCG agree about the close season which was a fiasco.
I’m sure you are right that Stan will look at the bottom line, but remember failure to get a Champions League spot hits annual revenue by circa $30M US.
They also believe that new sponsosrship deals will bring in big additional revenues, they won’t unless we see some success on the pitch so these things may motivate him to kick ass which is needed, its been too comfortable for too long at the club.
Afternoon all:
AW’s pre-Chelsea presser digest as follows from Pravda.com:
** Wenger – I spoke with my heart at AGM
** ‘Win at Chelsea would strengthen our belief’
** Vermaelen in the squad to face Chelsea
** Jenkinson faces late fitness test
** ‘Big results have no significance in football’
** Wenger – We’re in a strong financial position
** ‘We are in a better position to play Chelsea’
** Wenger – Racism now less of a problem in sport
** ‘I was surprised at hostility towards Board’
** Wenger – I am a fan of Andre Villas-Boas
Love the way that the lines about playing Chelsea and racism are next to eachother π
tabs, are you lurking?
Afternoon all ,
Some fine posts up there .
Esso @69 THE perfect post – well said Sir . Very ably assisted by Matt and Greg @81
Snir – cheers for pointing out the game of that Diaby goal .
I’m pretty sure you’ll enjoy your book . Wasn’t “Grovist” fare . I bought the first edition which from memory went to the end of the 07-08 season and enjoyed it , although I can’t vouch for the additional chapters which have been tagged on to cover the last 3 seasons .
I personally wouldn’t lump Fynn in with those prize cunts Whitcher , Payton and Le Grove . Yes , he’s a bit of a media whore , but I have always enjoyed his books , thought he gave a good interview on the Arsecast a few weeks ago , and I think attempts to see Arsenal with an understanding of the challenges AW has faced .
Whitcher is an entirely different animal .As editor of The Gooner , he has presided over its descent from a funny , irreverent and balanced fanzine to a rabid , unreadable diatribe . His own editorials tell you all you need to know about the quality of his own writing , so my guess is that his input into the book was minimal .
Canons @various – Some very sound stuff overnight about the payment of players .
Of course I’m lurking TS π
@West upper
Agreed too effin cozy.
Assists the assist in case TaBS has places to be and things to do π
Too early perhaps ?
?
GGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Up The Arse!
Well in, AL. But what about 102?????
Why did I read the drinks instead of grabbing an easy century?
heh, after getting used to 101, tabs is rushing to 99 now?
Well in AL , Afternoon Holic , 8ball . Right , Holic was unfortunately right , so catch you all later .
Just can’t get the balance right Ollie π
Good morning, I would add, it being just before 7am here with the coffee steaaming. That must mean we are 23 1/2 hours away from kickoff. Come on the Arse!! Tabs, well in at 99. π
Too kind gents – really it was nothing. But still, feel compelled to celebrate one decent score with another decent score, in off holic’s mighty fine post.
Mr. Mancini’s tune
http://youtu.be/lp6z3s1Gig0
UReDs!
How many pints can I get in before tonights preview? I have an unexpectedly good feeling about tomorrow, so expect to get more bullish with every pint.
I reckon around the six or seven pint mark I will be headlining with exactly what I think of Bruce Buck…
-bullish
+bullshit?
That would be the case with most, with every pint. But not with our ‘holic, true! π
What do you think of Bruce Buck? …..
What do you think of ….. ? Bruce Buck.
Thank You!
That’s all right…..
@ goonerholic
I’ll admit I’m just not getting the Pink Panther reference. Great post, though.
Did you feel more reassured after the meeting?
***
@ leftcoastgooner
“So when the club effs off the summer does not complete deals before the season and waits until after an 8-2 paste job by ManU(re) to make improvements I get snippy and wonder if Kato is on the job or has better things to do than mind the Pβs and Qβs.”
The club brought in ten players, five of them at or near the start of the season, five of them late. Where the deal could be done early, it was done early. We didn’t “wait” to buy Mertesacker, Arteta etc any more than Man City or Barca “waited” to bring in Nasri and Cesc respectively. We were working on our transfers before the ManU game – Park was actually signed just before. We also went for about three or four big players with serious money and failed to land them – it happens. ManUre didn’t land Schneider. We were gazumped on Mata. I think you’re being a bit unreasonable.
@ 68 Random Five Year Old
ha ha ha!
@ Esso
Very well said.
the reference in the title, I meant. Obviously I remember Kato.
Afternoon all,
I need to get something out in the open…no dressing it up, no garnish, just straight out with it so it’s as little of an issue as possible. Been sitting on this all morning, unable to join in the drinks because of it, so I’m just going to say it and to hell with the consequences. Here goes…
I’m lost.
I have only a very vague idea of what went on in the AGM and no idea who Bruce Buck, Whitcher or Payton are, or what they’ve said or done.
Any links to help me inform myself, and thus get involved, would be greatly appreciated. In fact, there’s a drink in it for whoever will hold my hand. I might even get a bit cheeky and ask Lars to chip in…
Matt re the magic gloves – an interesting piece.. thanks!
Wikipedia have him down as Bruce M. Buck with no explanation for the ‘M’. Maybe Middle really is his middle name…or possibly something even sillier than that, p’raps – who knows, or possibly even cares.
URedS!
Well , I did have things to do , but a headline competition is too tasty to resist :-
” More Bang for your Buck ? The Cannons are a-coming ”
” Buck the Trend . No need for Gangster money ”
” Fuck Buck “
CG…. I can help you with the Bruce Buck thing – he’s a cunt.
Also the Chelsea Chairman.
Having not got what he wanted (amazing, people’s opinions couldn’t be bought), he showed his class, and that of his club, by declaring publicly that they would “beat the crap out of Arsenal on Saturday”.
Then his mummy sent him to bed with no milk
Dafty Buck?
Al @ #115 – The M is for Moron or possibly Maureen?
Camberwell @ #113 – How’s about listening to the free coverage on Arse Player as a starter for 10? You’ll see IG, SK & AW all deliver their speeches with a supporting act from PHW. Re: Bruce Buck (yes it’s rhyming slang as ‘Holic would say), have a look at my post @ #17.
Camberwell ,
Kevin Whitcher has been editor of The Gooner for approx 3 years , has Grovist views , can’t write , and has ruined the fanzine ( in my view ) .
Tim Payton is the self-appointed voice of AST. The man has a habit of representing himself as ” the voice of Arsenal fans ” . He speaks , of course , for no-one but himself .
Headline options for the 7 Pinter:
“ClArsenal To Buck Trend – It’s a Racist Certainty”
“Gunners To Park The Bus-Stop”
Any more for any more ‘Holics?
BigMouth Buck – A Ruse To Hyde Chelski Bullshit Stadium Plans Getting Tossed Off Agenda
@fungunner
Aw himself said he had half a squad that wanted to leave the season before. Knowing that the transfers though much appreciated cannot be construed as anything BUT late.
Taking a postion whereby any critism of the team’s dealings cannot be critically viewed is unreasonble and in fact unreasoned.
“Uncle Buck, Arsenal Will Provide The Eye-Candy”
The Buck Stops at The Bus Stop.
TS @121 – heh π
” Terry passes Buck in Racism row as Buck passes usual crap in latest tweet “
Fair play Holic π
tabs, for some reason, I thought I’d posted a reply to your 120, but I don’t see it.
I hope I didn’t write it in a professional e-mail.
I was just saying ‘Payton is AST not AISA, no?’
Holic has corrected my original Ollie , along with a bit of judicious editing π
Oh, I see, sorry. That ‘holic man is too good.
He should work for .con π
Cheers.
Another treble for you?
I was wondering what your 127 was about as I saw no ‘holic post, but now I know.
Trebles all round Ollie . Tremendous idea . Just the ticket whilst I think of something to rhyme with “Terry” π
I am afraid I do not really share the rose tinted view of this AGM.
Why were the questions pre-selected and ferociously controlled? This is Arsenal Football Club, not the press room at the White House.
It is all very well for Arsene to say ‘we lost two world class players’
The pertinent question is: WHY are we losing world class players? What does it say about the club, its ambitions and its strategic vision in a highly-competitive industry?
All I hear from Arsene and the board is: We are well-positioned, we are determined, we are fighting and we are investing in our future
This corporate press release is becoming fast outdated and very tiresome
It is not good enough
Instead of endlessing debating the what and where, ask how and why
Zak @ #133
Welcome to our bar, are you a new poster or a returning one?
You raise some fair points in a reasonable way.
However, to say that there is a ‘rose tinted view of this AGM’ suggests that you haven’t read ‘Holic’s post properly, nor the subsequent conversations in the drinks.
Further, if you have been regularly following The Drinks since the early summer, you would have noticed plenty of ‘how’ and ‘why’ questions from the regulars.
tabs @ #132
How about ‘beri-beri’ or ‘reactionary’ π
Ollie, tabs.
I’d like a treble too: The Premiership, Champions League & The FA Cup. Too much too ask? π
@ leftcoastgooner
“Aw himself said he had half a squad that wanted to leave the season before.”
He didn’t mean literally half the squad, did he? And even if he did, then he must have persuaded some of them to stay! But the point is that you implied originally that we had done nothing all summer and then when we had a terrible result we brought in some players in a rush. That is not what happened.
My position is that you have to have some substance to back up your criticism – simply saying that because some of them were late deals, we must have been at fault, is not enough, because we are not in control of the speed of concluding transfers successfully. There are two other parties involved, who are perfectly entitled to look after their own interests and act accordingly – which often means stalling. The situation in which a club just points at the players it wants and gets them all in by day one of pre-season never obtains in practice. Even Man City with all their money and the fact that Nasri had already agreed to go there, had to wait to get him until we were prepared to deal.
Pray, what is this talk of Trebles? You lightweights. Amateurs. Quadruple for me, barman.
I consider myself able to speak for Dr Feelgood.
He says Mr Buck, Get tae F***.
The end.
Fungunner – welcome back, Mr Gazidis π
Quadruple for me too please barman – justice, no lemon
UReDS!
Thank you, zicoinexile – have you noticed that I’ve become balder and less eyebrow-y? It’s a new look for me.
Concise and to the point Dr Z π
OK, so NOW I see. Bruce Buck is a dribbling, octagenarian cock jockey.
Glad I cleared that one up. What a niggling, inflammatory little cunt.
Sorry, almost forgot.
It’s Friday afternoon and a mere hour and 15 minutes stand between me and my pint.
Trebles all round!
Would Nasri leave Arsenal if he had to do it all over again? I’m not so sure. He has been left sitting on the bench at Citah too often. He wanted silverware guaranteed, but he also wanted to PLAY. IF he had stayed where he belonged, he would have realised his dreams. A cautionary tale…
Arsenal 9/2 to win tomorrow with Paddy Power .
Surely the most alluring invitation to emanate from the Emerald Isle since The Nolan Sisters (pre-fat ) told us they were in the mood for Dancing ?
Goddamn that AGM had a big ass…
…..in the crowd trying to speak for all Arsenal fans, would love to hit it
leftcoastgooner @54, yep, live in felton, work at ucsc. where are you?
esso @69, greg @81, top posts.
fungunner @134, that is a huge part of why. we can only control our side of things, if the player and his agent are looking for something not in our package, it’s on elsewhere. it’s on the board to make future packages attractive to top class players, and that includes building squads that challenge on as many fronts as possible…AND win some silverware. that is what will keep players like rvp and ljw at thof.
Heh tabs @ #147 & zico @ #139! π
abb @ #146 – Yes I believe he would have left again given a chance to go back and re-visit his decision. He’s got what he wants i.e. a several shed-loads of wonga and it’s likley that his team are going to be winning silverware. That’s quite enough verbage on the chinless lesbian (copywright, zico) for me π
Woah, that was a lot of catching up, thirsty work getting through all these drinks, so I’ll break protical and order a BM at the begining of my effort.
Cheers.
I don’t bother following the ins and outs of the AGM’s, I get the bite sized versions on this site and from Blogs. It’s all a bit too much *Boredroom level for a standing on the terrace with a polystyrene beaker of pisspoor Bovril sort of chap like me.
Some nice drinks above and I particulary agreee with the “you don’t speak for me” points of view posted by numorous above.
There was also talk about some players leaving for more money, this may very well be the case with the chinless lesbo, but didn’t Cesc take a pay cut to join others with similar DNA? Not everything can be blamed on greed.
For tabs headline competition, simply;
Let’s Shut The Buck Up
*Not a typo
Extract 27th October
Dear Diary
My sleep these days is so much more pleasurable – no 3am sweats, no calls from Edwin requesting assistance for bail for Wolfgang Smallballs or extortion money to keep him out of the papers. Β The Happy Train is full of joyous punters and the Feelgood Foundation looks forward to our AGM, which will consist of me. Β Just me. Β I will be writing out questions to myself, and vetting them just in case the rogue zico slips in something controversial. Β I will invite John Crosseyed of the Daily Mealticket to cover for the media, and then get Edwin to apply the BtM method at the end if he gets out of line. Β I will give a brief account of our financial strength (although that will be only the public accounts – it would not do to declare all profit from all income streams).
I will declare myself Deliriously Happy.
And then I will go and interview the new medical staff π
Feel the madness. Barking, and I love it π
TS @ 150 Yes Citah will probably pick up something, but what I feel is that Arsenal will too. Like the FA Cup. Not kidding, totally serious.
Holic @153, That’s the spirit mate. I nominate YOU to lead us throught the streets of London, wearing our colours, exclaiming our allegiance and superiority. This will require many trips to the bar beforehand, to ward off all the tossers. Don’t fear, the Quackery Staff will bring up the rear!
abb, can we wear our propellor beanies? i’ve got one in red and white, with a red propellor…
The quackery staff worry me to be honest π
“Donβt fear, the Quackery Staff will bring up the rear!”
Nurse Wolfie will be loving that plan.
Third pint, getting well bullish now…
‘holic, i’m just now on my third cuppa coffee :). i’d trade in an instant! but the caffiene is starting to kick in, colors are brighter, and so is my mood…
We’re good scruz.
Headlines written, TaBS has nailed the ‘Holic pound. Who wants to write the rest?
It’s Friday night, so I’ll be open to at least 4am, I’ve only had the one drink so far and I’ll be behind the bar within the next hour, I’ll be trying to take it easy tonight (failing miserably ofcourse) due to tomorrows early kick off.
@Zak: there’s nothing the board and Arsene (who has no obligation to attent btw) can explain to you if you don’t want to hear it.The problem you have with the AGM is not that you don’t get the explanations you’re after, it’s that you don’t like the answers.
Now here’s a real question: we understand that the club follows the sustainable route, fine. Which means that we can only spend what we make. Now the question is: we have spent less than what we earned in the last 6 years thanks to excellent ROI on player sales and the redevelopment, the mortgage is under control and there’s now a big wad of “ring-fenced” cash. I’m totally fine we did not spend it on Huntelaar, Matuidu and whatever dud the antis claim would make us world beaters but what exactly is the plan for that cash?
The reason I’m asking this is that we were told repeatedly that this money was to compensate for the contracts that were locked for 10 years and are now massively undervalued. But in 2 years those contracts will be renegotiated and we will generate much more revenue and have less need for that cash. So again why do we keep such a big stash for?
Lucky you, ‘holic.
Still stuck at work, though not for long hopefully.
In fact, I go now.
Guess I’ll have some work to do over the long weekend though, grrrrrrrrrr.
@ scruzgooner
I’m not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me, but
as to keeping players, regardless of what we offer in wages or a wage package, it remains true that we cannot force anyone to join, or stay. Whatever we offer, Man City, PSG or Chelsea could just double it. That is where extras like the facilities (medical centre, training ground), the manager and the ethos of the club come in. The players have to want to stay with us and feel that we have a chance.
I agree, it would definitely help if we got our hands on a trophy but although we can try as hard as we can to win silverware, we can’t just “do” it – it’s not entirely in our hands.
@fungunner, agreeing…just trying to take it a little further and focus on the “two parties” idea. if arsenal makes its package attractive (on all parts) as a club, *including* keeping a competitive team on the pitch, then it’s down to the decision of the player. viz., nasri. he was offered more, knew he’d probably be central to what we were doing, had to be told that other deals were in the works…and it turns out his head was turned six months before by pv4 so he fucked off to city.
city obviously put a package together that pleased him more, even if their success on the pitch was far from guaranteed.
@ scruzgooner
Oh right – cheers It is indeed all about the intangibles.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/8853809/Matthew-Norman-one-can-only-marvel-at-just-how-wronged-John-Terry-has-been.html
Please tell me that this is ironic.
Ollie
My FULLOSSHITAMETER just broke.
Doobie, Doobie, dooo…
*fear the penguin*
BMBD!
Lonestar, Did you steal all of the Californian? That must explain where you have been. π
ollie @169…it’s ironic.
“viscous, ill-founded attacks…” must stick to him like glue, then.
Yeah, it’s just that someone posted that on my Facebook saying ‘not a hint of irony!’. That surprised me. But maybe that post was ironic too π
8 ball –
I’ve been guilty of many things of late: (1) boorish behavior, (2) neglecting my friends and comrades, and (3) working behind the scenes to keep “Spend some fucking money!” alive … but, I’d NEVER take a man’s Californian (without his permission) π
Here’s to stuffing Chel$ki tomorrow. Come on you Rangers! (They’re reds too)
Also, looking forward to some more time back at the bar.
BMBD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It’s a six-pinter π
Hello, I’m new here and want to say hello, all what I love to do is playing games so decide to share what I know better I have several favorite games and now I’m playing this game http://www.playcrg.com/game/368/Awesome-Tanks.html
please share your games too π
π