The Body Needs CPR, Not A Kicking
Feb 18th, 2012 by 'holic
I’m looking at the stats on the BBC. The stats say we had 55% of the ball.The stats say we had more shots, and what’s more we had more shots on target. Well if that isn’t just proof that there are lies, there are damned lies, and then there are statistics, I don’t know what is.
What I watched for ninety minutes was a well organised side consisting of players with limited ability outworking an Arsenal team now looking depressingly similar to the one that fell apart at the same time last year. Sunderland always looked threatening on the break and were good value for their two goal win.
Yes, there were extenuating circumstances in as much as the defence that was mysteriously missing our only fit left-back had to be reorganised twice after the loss of the unlucky Francis Coquelin and his hapless replacement, Sebastien Squillaci. We had two decent penalty shouts ignored, but survived two as well. Webb was Webb, unfortunately, but was not the cause of our exit.
The defeat was entirely of our own making. Prior to the turn of the year I think it is fair to say many were pleased that what we lacked in quality we made up for with sheer hard work and application. I was persuaded that would see us in good shape when the pointed end of the season arrived. However it seems to me that in the course of the last four days the engine room, the midfield trio, has just fallen apart. Devoid of form and confidence it is painful to watch them passing nervously, slowly, creating nothing, and protecting nobody.
That is creating pressure on a defence ripped apart over the course of the last week. It is not hindsight that has us querying why we did not strengthen the defence in January. If Sunderland are causing us problems on the break, then we all have to put our hands together in the coming week and pray that Laurent Koscielny makes a quick recovery, and Kieran Gibbs is available to start what has become a massive North London derby.
Such is the importance of that game for our season, and so devoid of form and confidence are this set of players, I hope those who are inclined to negativity will understand the importance of getting one hundred percent behind this side as it searches for what is so evidently missing. Obviously extremes of opinion will be aired this week, human nature being what it is. I’m not saying those who are critical don’t have some pretty valid points right now. I have my own fears about some of the things that seem to be going on at the club in recent times. I too will be expecting some significant changes in the summer, and just what the nature of those changes should be will be determined by how we finish the campaign.
What I am saying for now is that this club needs our support more than ever in the huge Premier League fixtures coming up. Lest we forget we are still fourth at present, but a top four berth would now be a bonus that many see as being beyond us. Turning on players we know have limitations will do nothing to lift them out of their current malaise. Let’s get behind them, support them, make them want to put in that extra effort that is lacking this week.
Let’s encourage them to achieve the best they can this season, then address the concerns about what we are, or are not, getting for our ever more expensive tickets when we won’t be affecting the very team we profess to support. The insufficient investment in the squad is not their fault. Think about that, please.
702 Responses to “The Body Needs CPR, Not A Kicking”
There’s rumors in the loading bay and anger in the town
Somebody blew the whistle and the walls came down
There’s a meeting in the boardroom they’re trying to trace the smell
There’s leaking in the washroom there’s sneak in personnel
Somewhere in the corridors someone was heard to sneeze
‘Goodness me could this be Industrial Disease ?’
Caretaker was crucified for sleeping at his post
Refusing to be pacified it’s him they blame the most…
Yea, now the work force is disgusted downs, tools, walks
Innocence is injured experience just talks
Everyone seeks damages, everyone agrees
That these are ‘classic symptoms of a monetary squeeze’
I don’t think I’ve ever felt this disillusioned. Don’t know whether to renew my membership, not on (or fully on) account of Wenger, but on the fact that it looks like for the first time since I started supporting Arsenal, that the team doesn’t care anymore.
And the sight of Wenger’s dejected face at 88 mins or so, it’s breaking my heart.
I mean, I want to support them with the utmost of my heart, but if they’re not willing to do it for the manager, let alone themselves bar a few (The Captain, The Ox) then what’s the point?
A measured response from a wise old (or not so old) head to disperse the depressed funk from this Young Gooner please?
Well written article. That match was a combination of sideways one touch passing with no direct forward play or pass and move. This is the foundation of wengers training methods and tactics, if passing slowly sideways fails keep on doing it anyways.
Wenger prioritises possesion over everything else, and it alone cant win football matches. Wenger hasnt evolved with the times of the premier league and wont change tactics that simply wont win matches anymore.
Wenger needs to move upstaires before he buries the careers and confidence of some of our players with serious potential. Change the training and tactics or change the manager its clear we cant have both.
They are tired of playing and I am tired of looking at them being tired and my wife is tired of looking at me being tired of looking at them playing like they tired of playing and my neighbour is getting tired of looking at my wife being tired of looking at me being tired of them playing tired football and…
Wind.
We just have to take it on the chin.
There isn’t much we can do about it really, but support the players and hope for the best.
I have to say I’m beginning to be wary of the fact that I might make a trip across the pond to witness three losses.
That’s scaring me.
Chin up Hurricane…you may not believe this but we have been in worst situations in the past…
Not much anyone can add to the summing up above…
The deficiencies are nemerous and painfully obvious to all but the most diehard AKBs.
No chance of bringing in reinforcements until the Summer so the only other option would be to change the management.
I’ve thought Wenger is well past his sell by date for several seasons, but I would leave well alone now and hopefully the Board and Silent Stan will take stock at the Season’s end and take decisive action.
Hi I’m not an Arsenal fan (Man Utd I’m afraid) but have to say I thought this was a great article. I like to read the fan sites of other teams and have to say I find Arsenal fan sites to often be the most pessimistic and having been to Ashburton Grove a few times I think the atmosphere is lacking at times (although Old Trafford is regularly the same). It’s nice to hear someone be positive. Your club needs support at these times. Well done the author. I also really hope you stuff Spurs as they’re worrying me a little!
A treble vodka please ‘holic.
so how can fans vent their spleens?if not at the under performing stars than at who?.i have lost count of the seasons we have been crying our for a quality keeper and a decent back four..and we have not spent good money in these areas.still the emirates will look pretty empty at this rate, first class ticket prices for a second rate team?. up the anti next year we only need 6 or 7 decent players to add to the squad and ship out at least 6 or 7.this smacks of the dark days of don howe,who overstayed his wlecome..this is a repeat of last year why was this not fixed prior to this season?..
Holic nice post,your refference to what is going on recently………………..mate where have you been the last few years,really i read here because i am firmly in the AW out brigade,but your site is the most pro AW on the net,and inch by inch i read your alliance moving from AW to Arsenal,i welcome the day when you and the flock join us,dont take these coments the wrong way i know opinions differ and Arsenal is at heart,change needs to happen IMO
Through thick and thin
Good stuff as always
GT, Snir, I know we’ve been in barren periods before, but this one is the first I have experienced outside of a article or a book, its not like I jumped on the bandwagon the day we went unbeaten, but this is a pretty brutal reality that I’m now beginning to face up to I guess.
We’ll win at Anfield, I’m certain of it. Newcastle have become a bogey team for us in recent seasons, but we’re at home, so we should pull through. I’ve heard the phrase ‘dead rubber’ used in conjunction with AC Milan at home’ many a time, and even if we had gained a precious away goal, I wouldn’t believe that this team that didn’t try against the likes of fooking Sunderland could turn over Milan by 3 or 4 goals. We might still win, but that’s the optimist in me, repressed as of late, speaking out.
It’s difficult to support a manager who consistently patronises us with terms such as ‘mental strength’ and ‘great spirit’.
‘The insufficient investment in the squad is not the players fault.’
Well, their lack of effort and heart in Wednesday wasn’t my fault either. Face it ‘holic, this manager has totally, utterly and completely lost the plot. If he can’t motivate and organise the players to bounce back against Sunderland, we have no chance against Spurs.
I’ve had enough of him. I’ve also had enough of Kroenke, he’s managed the previously unthinkable which u to make Usmanov look an attractive proposition.
@ Tom: Thanks for the nice words..nice of you to visit…and thanks for not sticking the boot in…We’ll see if we can stuff the LWC’s next week and cheer us all up..(0;
That is undoubtedly true, Terry. I think though expectations have been changed by the move to the new stadium which was supposed to allow us to be competitive at the top table.
Certainly the goalposts have been moved since that decision was made, but I can understand why not finishing in the top four this season could cause a meltdown amongst sections of our support.
If we cannot compete for third place with our matchday revenues, Champions league income, and (admittedly slim) commercial earnings then I can understand disappointment of many.
It’s the bile and trolling by the hard of thinking I don’t understand.
Tom @ 9, warms my cockles (?) indeed when a fan of a team other than Arsenal can come here and be Civil, good to have you 🙂 (Even if you’re affilated with the Red Mancs :P)
For me what hurts is the lack of effort – Sunderland worked their nuts off today, and we didn’t. When we do that, we look so much more effective, so come on please.
The famous Wenger out brigade, always amusing how they often arrive with no name to bring in though either. Apparently sacking a manager without having any clue about who to replace him with is in vogue at the moment.
On Wednesday, it was quite obvious that a big factor in the capitulation was that the midfield was knackered after playing on an absolute bog the previous weekend, and had to play on another dodgy pitch. So what is the solution today? Put back many of the same players on the same awful pitch as the previous weekend, when you could refresh at least one of Ramsey or Arteta, both of whom were ponderous, with Benayoun. This was a fixture that really shouted out for fresh legs. Even the skipper looks to be worn out….
And why is Squillaci of all people on the bench, instead of, say, Miquel, who could cover at both fullback and center, or Yennaris? And why wasn’t there a like-for-like sub of Gibbs for Coquelin? (Hard luck on le Coq — he looked as if he were up for the battle today….)
The only Arsenal player who looked decent today was Ryo.
Finally: we’ve said it last year as the season was winding down, Arsenal are often criticized for not having a plan B when things aren’t going well. But it’s becoming more evident than there isn’t a plan A to begin with. Solution: at season’s end, open the windows and doors, there’s a groaning need for a freshening, for new ideas, and it’s not coming from the present management. Sometimes you just need a new voice….
BUT…even with all of the above, ‘holic, you’re absolutely correct on getting behind the squad to keep fighting for as high a place as possible in the league. WE are the Arsenal, and WE must do everything to voice our support, always.
Gutted for Chamberlain. An 18-year-old kid busting his gut to get back to help the team (while many others jogged), and for all that scores an own goal. I didn’t see any senior players consoling him, but I sure hope that occurred off camera (was watching a stream).
Thank you Tom.
Some of you are reading more than I am writing. I would hate Arsene to leave under such circumstances. He deserves to go out on a high.
I do think however that there is something not quite right in the organisation that may lead to his departure. Whether that is before his contract expires is unlikely at present I would hope, but if this poor run continues…
Still, what is important is that Arsenal grow stronger. At least on that we can agree.
“I too will be expecting some significant changes in the summer”
I think you’re hoping for too much there Holic. Why? Because I’ve just discovered Djourou has been given a 3 year contract extension. He has been here 9 years and is EXACTLY the type of deadwood we should be shipping out, but deluded Wenger is going to persist with him.
This tells me that our stubborn manager will continue to take the cheap option, put his faith in mediocrity and cross his fingers. It is a foolish path that leads to mid-table obscurity but one he shows no sign of straying from.
In some ways it’s refreshing to hear such platitudes from another club’s supporter, but is this kindness actually a punch in the kidneys from someone who no longer considers us to be a threat of any kind.
Yes we need change but it can’t happen now , we will drift through the rest of the season as there is little or no spirit left in the ones that are still walking. April there can be board room changes , it’s up to the owner to take control and sort this malaise out. Or leave.
Great write up ‘holic. We’re all flat after a flat week. The worse thing about the week we’ve had is AW deserved more from the team than he got. So did we. Change is needed. The end of the season is the time for that, whatever that looks like. For now, we have a fourth place berth to retain. Being a fan means taking the rough with the smooth. Let’s hope for some smoothness and effort and heart and spirit against the increasingly noisy neighbours. We’d all feel better after 3 points against them.
Eyes Right Skin Back Tight Bollocks to The Front – Remember who we are what we are and who we Represent , The y@”” are coming to town so leave the reprecutions to after them cunts at least !
The fans are now stuck in the brown stuff. We want things to improve, but how?
Do we get at the players and as you rightly point out probably demotivate them even more?
Do we get at a manager who has seemingly lost his way, but is one of the greatest all time contributors to the club in history?
Do we get at the board for not providing greater direction? How can we do this even if we want to? The owner lives abroad and does not care for the club other than as a business prospect. Any complaints will fall on deaf ears.
To be honest I don’t have the answers. I can’t see Wenger changing direction. He believes in this youth project, he believes in the sideways passing style of play and he stubbornly believes that everyone else is wrong.
I think the ideal scenario is that Wenger resigns at the end of the season. He goes out with his head held high and some incredible achievements. It would be a very, very sad situation if the fans have to force out a club legend.
I don’t believe we need to give a new manager a bottomless pit of money. We have world class internationals at the club who are not delivering and some promising youth. We need someone who can address the problems in the playing style, motivate the players we have, then fill in a couple of the gaps. What we are doing now, is not working and will never work.
It strikes me that one of the main problems with the set-up is that there is no dissenting voice with authority to point out uncomfortable truths or offer new suggestions.
All the players at the club have been brought and developed by AW, Rice has been his assistant for years and seems unwilling or unable to either come up with fresh ideas or present them.
I think this is the first genuinely horrible season we’ve had, because even though we haven’t won anything for the last few years, at least we’ve competed – we’ve sustained title fights ’till feb/march time, we’ve always before gone out of the CL to top, top teams (no Basles), we’ve had a couple of CC finals, and never been knocked out of either cup by a lower league side. Until this year.
We should have let Rice retire in the summer, like he wanted, and we need to get a totally new voice as assistant. Not a former Gunner, not a promotion from within, but somebody with new ideas and the willingness to press them forcefully.
Just my 2p worth.
‘holic. Thanks. I enjoyed reading that blog now back home.
Spot on, as always.
Gooner Steve.
Interesting point.
I’ve just discovered Djourou has been given a 3 year contract extension
Mind if I ask you to think about how you know that? Where that info appeared? Who leaked it?
I can’t blame the players, they were trying but there wasn’t enough quality or organisation in any area of the pitch to combat a well drilled (& largely defensive minded) Sunderland team, who, lets face it got lucky…. one deflected goal & one OG.
However, the quality of the team & its organisation is down the manager & his coaching staff. If this was a one off this season it could be forgiven but it’s the same old story. Lack of insight, forsight, & stringing players & fans along with hot air & lies.
In December we were told that we needed to buy cover for our injured left backs, that it would be foolish to drop points because we had no left backs.
In january we were told it would be OK because we had cover in the form of Vermaelen & that Gibbs would be back soon. Mid February, Gibbs returns for one game & we are back to the November position again. How naive!!!
Back to todays game…Theo, who’s failed to impress on the right wing for the majority of the season is brought on to play centrally (for the first time) ??? whilst Arshavin, who’s magnificent assist saved the day on the same ground a week ago, & who’s an experienced advanced central player, is left on the bench???
Goodbye Danish. Go and post your puerile abuse elsewhere.
Top class post as always, Holic.
Wind, you will handle the hard times better than you seem to think.
Holic@23: I can’t help but feel the same as you about Arsene. I can’t put my finger on exactly what it is, but something is making me believe more and more that Arsene will walk away at the end of this season. I just get the feeling he’s had it and won’t take any more crap for stuff that is not neccessarily his fault.
Jon – you are kidding me, right? You need to look no further than the opposing manager today. Here is a man who took a club that was 17th in the league and have them organized and with a game plan. No, I am not saying that he should replace Wenger, but this gives you an idea that there are loads of managers out there who can make a difference with the players that we have. These players aren’t poor by any stretch….
for peeps asking AW out to name a manager i ask you this,write down the squad,list three columes,starters,squad,out,…………..when you have done this look at the amount of players in the squad and out colume……….now ask your self this how will we sell that many players and how will we bring in the quality and experience needed to challenge the places we were four years ago let alone seven.we are now three years away from acheiving the changes player wise needed,regardless of a new manager things are not going to change with the personal employed,i have not named names i think it is best we suport the team Which is Arsenal,but decisions such as………………..signing players without a medical…………….playing the only fit fullback in a dead rubber only to get him injured…………………….playing a grossly slow Rosicky out wide against AM and rest an inform player in OX…………………the endless defensive problems for four years………………the list goes on these are managerial neglegence
I don’t have a problem taking the rough with the smooth.
I only have a problem taking it when I see disinterested faces on the pitch wearing an Arsenal shirt.
To be fair, I didn’t particularly see that today. I just saw ‘fairly good’ players playing without any tactical diversity. Apart from the exurberance of youth that is the Ox.
I would like an answer to this question from somebody at Arsenal – is the lack of spending a result of a board directive, or does Arsene really have money to spend?
Hi all,
First post here.
I more or less agree with the suggestion that we need to get behind the team however this does not mean that we have to sit on our backside and do nothing becasue if if we do that (I mean do nothing), then we will be talking about same scenario next year as we are doing for last 6-7 years.
I have written the email below to feedback@arsenal.co.uk and I know some other peope have written too. All of us can at least do that, spread the word for others to do that and let the club know our feelings.
Goonerholic, we know the club read your blog and you can repeatedly in constructive way let the club know the feelings of fans. I hope you can, at least, do that mate.
Those who attend AGM and AST and AISA, can make sure these feelings are made known to the club.
I have written the email below to the club and addressed it to Wenger and Gazidas. I request you guys write your opinion to them too and get it off your chest to save our once great club!
Subject: Please pass it on to Mr Gazidas and Wenger
Dear both
First of all I would like to congratulate you on successfully steering our team through traditional February implosion. Mr Gazidas said in his interview few weeks ago that we are in three competitions while city are in two. Well, well, well, sir would you like to enlighten us now that 3games later we are in no competition at all. Well done Sir for sitting on huge profits generated by bleeding loyal fans who have to pay highest ticket prices in the Europe. I would also wish to congratulate you on spending money on wages of dross like Almunia, Djourou, Squlacci, Denilson, Diaby, Rosicky, Ramsey, Chamakh, Park,Vela, Arshavin, headless chicken Walcott and Bentdner ( more than a team). It’s easy to see now that despite having a wage bill of over 120 million, actually where our money is going!
Mr Wenger I wish to congratulate you for sticking with mediocre players so long. I know you used to say that “I did not see that” and now I understand you were not lying about it, actually you cannot see the mediocre players in front of you. Also really well done for getting rid of Fabregas for half of his market value only because you made promises to him to let him go. You make apoint that arsenal play in champion,s league for 14 years but please tell me what good it does if you get knocked out at key stages and never win it? Oh yeah, apart from ripping fans by asking them to pay CL prices in the package.
Mr Gazidas you promised clear out last summer which ended up only I getting rid of only quality players we had in the team while dead wood remained sucking on to huge weekly pays. I hope you realise that one reason we cannot get rid of these players because we pay them inflated wages which other clubs are not willing to pay hence we are stuck with them. I heard Mr Wenger has degree in economics and I hope there are some people with MBA in there but you don’t need these fancy degrees to understand what bleeding this club. I know you both talk about building for future but if you lose sight of present, you future is doomed any way. On field success attracts better commercial revenues and by the look of it we will not be in a position to negotiate any deals like ManU, Liverpool and even spurs. You can very well hang the fickle Facebook and Twitter followes around your neck. I sincerely hope that Arsenal fans stand up now the best way that will hurt your money in the bank and profits that is by not renewing season tickets, by not buying tickets, taking names of season tickets waiting lists etc so you have to sit up and take notice outside your little world.
We were repeatedly told that new stadium was built so that we can compete with likes of ManUs of this world, but we have only seen huge profits and next to nothing spent on bringing quality players to the club. We have become feeder club for likes of Barcelona and City. When you actually try to sign players they go for better clubs ( Jones and Smalling come to mind) instead of joining us and our good players cant wait to leave the club (i dont think you need reminding who i mean) or dont want to stay here (RVP) Look what Spurs have done down the road with less than half of budget and wages.
Mr Wenger said that after Milan game that we were repeatedly caught out with simple ball over the top but sir I hate to say I told you so, but if you listen to any of Stuart Robson’s commentary on Arsenal player you will understand this issue is there for last 7 years or so and you know it!
Thank you both for destroying our once great club for love of money, I hope you are really proud of what you accomplished!
Wenger said “We had three away games in one week and I believe it was a very unfortunate schedule to play away in the Champions League and immediately away again. They were very difficult pitches as well but we fought hard today”
I know its the pitch to blame. we are Arsenal and we should be treated like royalties. We deserve the red carpet to the pitch and our players should not get their kit dirty. how dare the FA send us away to Sunderland to play football. Honestly it is a bit tiring hearing the same excuse. before the Milan game it was the pitch and today it was the pitch.
Apart from 1 or 2 Wenger does not deserve to have these players. He can do well but he needs a differnt of breed at the club. This project of small gifted players is not working and Wenger need to go back to the Tony Adams and Vieras. Strong powerful and can have a punch up if it is needed.
Thanks for speaking on behalf of all Arsenal supporters wittyzed
Some of the players are just not pushing on. The midfield looks so average. Song is reasonable, but he should be our third or fourth best midfielder, not the best. Arteta and Ramsey look like they’re struggling, to me.
It seems Arsene’s approach of the playing each game like it is a cup final is not bearing fruit.
So we take an exhausted team stripped of its confidence to play on a crap pitch and gusting wind and expect a better outcome??
What has happened to Song, Arteta and Ramsey over the last few games?? Arteta kept running across the pitch and does not want to pass with his left foot. Midfielders are supposed to boss games.
Where has Vermaelen’s tenacity and aggression gone?
We need more leaders on the pitch than RVP, an ability to adapt our playing style and have versatile players when we are not playing on bowling green pitches.
Part of me wants the team to get a grip, be less mediocre than Chelsea, Newcastle and Liverpool and scrape a fourth place, but to what end? More of the same next year??
The other part likes catharsis and is curious to discover what emerges from the implosion.
I spent 20 minutes typing a tirade about the shortcomings of this match, blame here , blame there and due to ebay and a watched item I closed the wrong tab.
So I now have to rewrite and have the time to readress.
The teams performance’s are seriously masking the inadequacies of the board ( is there one?)
We seem to have lost focus on what is a football club
My most disheartening Arsenal moment ever (I bought my first strip 32 years ago (my mum did) ) was Christmas day!
My 17 year old student daughter presented me my gift, when I looked at her face it was full of trepidation which confused me. I unwrapped it and it was an Arsenal branded hooded top, £55 she’d spent on it. What a waste, shoddy quality, if it hadn’t had the crest on it it would have been 7 quid in Primark
How hard was it to put a smile on my face? I shot an arm to make out that it didn’t fit so I had an excuse to send it back but i saw her face and knew she’s sussed.. She’s a woman she know’s the going rate and market vale of clothes!
My daughter isn’t an Arsenal fan but sure as shit she knew she’d been short changed by them.
I’m thinking the same as her too
Lars @ 34, I can only hope so.
The thing is, I feel somewhere that even if we were drawn out of the clear dish thingy first ahead of Sunderland, we still would of lost, that’s the sort of the shift the players put in today.
Jon – Post 20
Yeah if these so-called Wenger out fans haven’t got a name as a replacement then they should just shut up and put up with the dross and abject failure of the last few seasons.
How bloody dare they?
£7million a year, 5th richest club in Europe, highest season tickets in world football and they want a new manager?
The VERY thought…….
It is sad to say but I am pretty sure Arsenal is finished . Good players will not want to join the club . Only young players in need of somewhere to start .
Spiral of death .
@wittyzed I heard that you promised to support Arsenal through thick and thin. Thanks for accusing the club of being run like a business but yet making demands like an entitled consumer.
Jez what has happened to the said players is AW has lost the dressing room,Imo the way the team played in milan was due to AW team selection,i actualy think some kind of shit went down in the dressing room,i looked at RVP when he was coming off the feild at half time in the milan game and he was disgusted,the way they were and have been so disjointed makes me feel there is some kind of rift happening?
After the second goal I turned off the computer, took a couple of Panadols and went to bed! But I felt so shitty doing that so I got up and thought I’d stick around to provide some support for the terminally depressed…I’m struggling which is worrying…because I can always see the bright side of things…and when I can’t I usually will try a joke or two…but no jokes come to mind…and this is not a joking matter..
I think it was Derrick who posted that excerpt from the Current Bun about the Big Fat Russian (Uzbek but what the fuck) and I was alarmed to find that I was agreeing with everything he was quoted as saying….God what’s happening to me..
My 2 cents worth is that this has gone farther than just being a failing of Arsene Wenger. This is now systemic (a nod to Steve T, Trev et. al.)…I still support our much maligned self sustaining business model – but customer satisfaction should also be a part of that model. Right now the punters are not getting good value for money….
Watching the game today I had to turn the volume down several times – such was the noise coming from the Sunderland fans…Arsene, the Board and all of us should reflect on that….what is making them so excited? Player for player they are not better than us…they have never, ever seen the inside of the San Siro never mind gotten walloped by AC Milan….they certainly can’t be aspiring to fourth place and a place in the Champions League (nor can any team from 8th place down – Sunderland are 11th)..So what’s making them so excited? HOPE!!…
My belief is that they all – players, manager and fans – have hope…and that is why there was always three players pressing down on us when we had the ball…that was why they ran themselves into the ground..that was why their fans screamed blue-murder when a call went against them..that’s why they were cheering their team to the very end…and that is why they went home with the result…
The bulk of our first team squad is in its first year at Arsenal. We have had shattering injuries to key defenders which has prevented Arsenal to field any sort of settled back four (the key to our game)…I don’t know if Le Boss is now really capable of lifting himself or the fortunes of the club from the present malaise surrounding the Emirates but it feels like a hopeless situation and that is a horrible place to be with so much of the season still to go..
I’m still excited to see how we do in the league. A top four finish would be brilliant.
Sorry Clive for the length…I got carried away again )0;
a divided board is a race to the bottom
And the AKB’s of this world i have posted what is happening now at the club events that have happened this season,what has AW done this year to inspire you to keep him,after all we dont live in the past.
@Wittyzed i hope they really read your email,i would like too see the fans make a statement by not visiting a couple of games ,yes empty stadiums just to let the board know they cannot hide behind any excuses ,its a young team bla bla ,no more excuses ,no more talents ,we want to see men not boys ,exceptional talents like wilshere no problem but come on ,and if we buy ,what we get benayoun ,a weak tall german and arteta who is average if u compare him to fabregas.The guy gazidis said 4th spot is ok or something like that ,i didnt bought anything from arsenal this season and i wont buy anything or visit any match ,i will always support arsenal but not people who want to destroy arsenal .
Spineless this team sweems to be, that’s where the danger is. Back in the days PV or RP would’ve made some crazy tackle, slap someone or, for good measure, like Cantona, brush up a fan with his studs. No guts – no glory. Just a bunch of self-righteous, headless chickens who’s paycheck depends on number of appearences. Fuck this. Considering my age I hope I’ll outlive the old fox to see a new beggining for the club that used to inspire me. Godspeed to all my beloved Gooners.
Lars,
have to agree with you mate. Didn’t bother to watch Milan “highlights” as reports were so abject. Still have no functioning televisual equipment here today.
Frustrating but probably not such a bad thing.
I’ve said the same thing about AW many times. The fact that he, according to comments here, is not bothering to even get up off the bench when we’re down, probably says enough.
He has put so much into this club, he must privately feel as bad as we all do.
Apologies if the above is inaccurate.
Wind – you’ll get over it. In the end, what are you going to do ?
Go and support Man Citeh, ManUre, Sp*rs, Chavs – well ?
Some of us have been through many more years than this without winning anything, although we at least always had a bit of fighting spirit in those days. It’s the lethargy that is the killer.
Still, chin up ! At least you’re young enough to still only have ONE !
Holic, if I remember correctly Djourou even linked it on his Twitter in regards to his extension.
As for AW I’m certain he’ll leave if we don’t reach fourth and I don’t think we’ll reach fourth because we still have to go through our meltdown.
I was not expecting this, what is happening, I have a ticket for next week, I am not sure if I want to go
@Shrek2b,
I understand where you are coming from.
I did not complain that club is run like a business. I am happy with that as long as what is generated is put back and where there are deficiencies are filled and those who earn are held responsible for not delivering.
Is it too much to demand. I did not ask for extra money to be put in by owners. I simply asked why the one generated has not put in.
I am a director in a one of the biggest company in Europe and I manage teams. One thing I know when I finish my day is that I have to lead by example, be accountable and if any one in my team is not pulling enough weight, they are told in the best possible way to improve, help them go through any difficult time with all traning and support but if sitll they remain “dead-wood”, they are shown the way out. Only I demanded that the dead wood which Gazidas admitted last year does not deserve to be at our club and should be shown the door as they have been given enough opportunities and even you know that.
Is it too much to ask?
In my business and any other business, it is essential that people are paid what they are worth, the work they do, quality of the work etc and not because they are working for the company even though there will be basic pay scale for every one. It is clear that we play our averge players too much but our top performers are comparitively paid less, which make then think to go else where. Is it too much to ask to do the same for the club
I know the shareholders are not paid any dividends, so only thing I am asking is to put the money in profits back into club to be successful.
Just what we need Boris – players getting banned for months for taking flying Kung-Fu kicks at opposing supporters.
I’m as frustrated as you, but ffs!
Unfortunately in years to come and as the spin clears Arsenal are going to become systematic of the greed of years producing the recession, as much as we profess to be a self financing system we aren’t, we are at the whims of the property market and the proclivity of players and agents
A team of Cloggers parked the bus on a cowpatch in a significantly empty stadium and with the aid of Man Utds greatest ever player beat a team of brainless, slow moving esn soft southerners (RVP and the Ox excepted ) managed by a clueless tactician.I’ll always support the Arsenal but sometimes it’s very annoying and painful, But then Nick Hornby wrote it all about the pain of being an arsenal supporter and despite all this shite about seven trophyless years we’ve gone a lot longer than that in the past ,but wasn’t the period we ‘ve just passed though wonderful .Thanks Bertie, George and Arsene.
Holic
If we achieve 4th nothing will change in the summer.
The quality of this squad is poor.We need to have a massive clearout.And stop burying our heads in the sand
There needs to be changes at all levels from the top to the bottom of the club.Kroenke is only interested in profits.Wenger cant find quality like he used to and cant motivate the team.Look how they responded after Milan today was worse
The likes ofFlappy,Djourou,Squillaci,Diaby,Rosicky,Chamakh,Park,Walcott and Arshavin MUST be booted out
Holic – Here it is.
Not from JD’s twitter, but from Arseblog.
http://news.arseblog.com/2012/02/djourou-signs-2-year-contract-extension/
Lars, Trev –
I’m absolutely certain that AW’ll leave if we don’t get 4th, and what a shame it would be.
Like Holic says, he deserves to go out on a high, not on the back of his worst season, face in his hands, and leaving the squad in turmoil for the next manager.
I used to log into Arseblog daily…. but there’s only so much dry bread I can take.. I’d at least like some butter, jam can wait
Holic,
I read it online in the Sun and Daily Mail to name but a few.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2098648/Johan-Djourou-signs-contract-extension-Arsenal-2015.html
Are you suggesting it’s not true? It sounds like a typical Wenger move to me.
The romantic in me is still hoping Wenger either amends his ‘youth development only’ policy or gives the board an ultimatum if it’s them who are in fact tying his hands. But giving the likes of Djourou new contracts means neither are likely to happen and that saddens me because he is tarnishing his wonderful legacy.
Holic saying AW should go out on a high? when do you see this high happening? what events this season or past three lead you to think we will have this HIGH? look to the future not the past great past manager shit now
@70 NZ. I agree, I dont think the high can come, if it could there would be no reason for him to be going in the 1st place! I would however like him to go out on his own terms and keep the goodwill he has deservedly built with the fans.
Players who sum up Arsenal 2012:
Djourou-Absolutley hopeless.Yet Wenger saw fit to give him a contract extention.Up there with the likes of Ceasar and Stephanovs
Squillaci-A mistake waiting to happen.He would look out of place on Hackney Marshes
Diaby-60k a week for 16 mins game time this season.
Arshavin-Hasnt broke sweat this season.
Chamakh-Makes me think Lee Chapman was good.RVP is being run into the ground because we cant rest him because this cunt is shit.1 goal in a year
Park-£5m for the invisible man
Walcott-6 years at the club.Is no better than the day he joined.He has pace.Thats it.Cant beat a man cant cross.All hype
But all these players have been pampered by Wenger instead of being shown the exit door.And when you add these players to the other deadwood we shipped out in the summer Denilson Eboue Bendtner and Vela it makes you realise how shit we really are
Hi everyone! I just love this forum (a Raki for me please being based in Turkey) and have been lurking for too long! I’ve always been nervous of forums! I realised tonight (and before) that I turn to this reasoned forum to get a true assessment of Arsenal’s latest woes/match report rather than reading an inaccurate online broadsheet report. I haven’t read all the ‘drinks’ yet but what struck me was there wasn’t lack of effort (maybe I will read lots to the contrary?) but that we simply do not have the personnel. What summed things up for me was The Ox losing possession deep in the Sunderland half, realising it was too much to expect a defence behind him, with him covering over half the pitch to try and rectify his mistake (?) and being unlucky enough for his endeavours to end up scoring an own goal! The look on his face at the moment and at the match end was somewhat tragic. He really cares but I’m not sure about how much the players around him really care.
summed up by Bod!
Oh God, I risk sounding like all the naysayers that I’ve ignored and tut tutted before
Did someone just suggest we sack our manager and appoint Brendan Rogers?
Fuck me. This time last year it would have been Owen Coyle. A couple of years earlier Phil Brown.
If we must go down this road, can we at least stick to naming gaffers with more than 18 months top flight experience and who would actually be willing to come (Mourinho – hah)?
Holic – great write up.
My own tuppence is that I’m fully behind the manager this season, and even if we finish outside the top four i’d give him one more year to fix things and get us back on track. The man has earned that much. He’s certainly earned the right to, at minimum, be spoken of with a modicum of respect, something some of our more vocal Internet “personalities” would do well to remember.
Brendan Rogers – Jesus wept.
Gutted, just gutted.
But you are right ‘Holic, we have to lift this team so that they play well enough to stay in the top 4 this season and hope that someone in the club has a plan to revive our quality this summer.
I agree with all who question how we have ended up with so many highly paid underperformers. But that cannot be sorted until the summer.
For now we must get behind the team.
COYRs.
Hi holic and holics,another bad day at the office even before I played my own game today my team mates were saying bet of the day s’land @ 2 to 1!it seems after every defeat the bar gets loaded with frustrated fans, a lot venting there fury at arsene and the team but very few with answers about what to do.. My tuppence worth is Id like to see a change of formation,not only is it the man u’s of the league doing the ol rope a dope but every other mickey mouse club with a bit of kop it’s like a car crash you can see it happening but seems like there’s noting we can do.4-4-1-1my prefered option with Arsh behind Robin.onwards and upwards concentrate on 4th take care.
I think this was the week we visualised and dreaded as last summer drew to a close. A summer that ended with the realisation that not only had we not strengthened in defence/attack, but were also massively weakened in midfield, courtesy of the departures of Cesc and Nasri. Where, we pondered, would this leave us when the season reached it’s critical months? And alas our fears have come to pass.
I think we probably visualised Djourou and Squilachi at centre half in February in a match we couldn’t afford to lose.
We perhaps even visualised Jack, who was clearly earmarked to pick up the creative slack, crocked due to being over-played.
Where were the contingencies for these eventualities?
*We* feared and foresaw these possibilities. Despite it all, I cannot really believe AW did not either. What I can believe, however, is that the beancounters inside the club do not understand the game. Do not understand fans, do not understand the club.
‘Holic @ 31. I think I know what/who you are driving at. Personally I am uncomfortable with the lack of clarity between the views of one man and the organisation he supposedly represents. Frankly it’s unprofessional, which is quite ironic given the standards he is elected to call for in others.
I feel so hopeless! Year after year we face the same problems but do nothing to sort them out! The board is to blame for buying mediocre players, the players are to blame for not fighting for the badge, the manager is to blame for poor tactics! Unless we change our management we shall not amount to anything! Some people at board level have to go! Simples!!!
Before I back drink etc, let’s see who we can blame?
Djourou for conceding a free kick in an area Larrson is good for? or Squillaci for stupidly deflecting a shot whilst on the other end the Ox was unlucky to tap into his own net?
Hmmm?
Time for a back drink later!
Laters!
I meant^
‘Holic: the article about JD’s (2-year) contract extension was on the .com a couple of weeks ago I think…because I also read it..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2103166/Pep-Guardiola-ready-replace-Arsene-Wenger-Arsenal.html
Pep to replace AW who will go upstairs to the board (by the way, the board is going to change at the end of the season, namely PHW will most probably retire).
Or
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/EXCLUSIVE-Arsenal-set-to-smash-wage-cap-to-keep-Robin-van-Persie-and-attract-new-star-signings-article866960.html
Choose who you believe. If any of ’em.
N7 and after that year you will be saying let him finish his contract,he has progressivly got worse,and is making fundamental stupid decisions as i have out lined in past posts,you would rather do Arsenal a dis-service buy keeping an obvious finished manager lacking ideas,you would do this because the mans past demands respect.clearly shows AW means more to you than the club.
lol Okay maybe naming brendan was taking it a bit too far but at least he can get his team to play direct attacking football something our somewhat predictable manager has mostly failed to do this season.
And why does he deserve another season? he hasn’t won fuck all for 6 years! it was the same f…ing thing u guys were saying last season and the season before that. This guy is the highest paid manager in the prem and has failed simple as, time to give someone else a try.
As for that Pep manager, AW in the board idea.
I don’t see it happening.
Both are control freaks and wouldn’t want to have their ways interfered with.
On the other hand, if they can find a mutual way, and form a partnership ala Dein and AW. That would be quite a pairing.
If we finish 4th it will just paper over the cracks and we will have to put up with the same shit next season again
Our owner,manager and some of our fans have settled for mediocrity. They havent notice the Spuds have overtaken us
There has to be a big change and that wont happen under Wenger.And RVP will be gone of course to be replaced by Chamakh mark 2
7 years without a trophy heads have to roll.The Wenger failed project cant be allowed to carry on
GoonerTerry @83
Yes, JDs contract extension was announced on .con
Details of his salary were not.
Edin (sic daily mail) Hazard? Would you take him?
He’s already professed his preference for the Bernabeau so why would we sign him for 30mil.. take a gamble that he lives up to that value and then sell him 2 years later when HE’s ready to move, a la Cesc, to sunnier climes.
someone please tell me Goetze is fair skinned and hates the sun
N7
One more year.He has had 7 years.And each season the decline gets worse.And every year our best players are leaving .RVP will be next then Jack.The club needs a new direction.Wenger was a great manager but that was a long time ago
Of course Wenger feels it. As much as we do? No, probably a damned sight more. For the past 15 years, or whatever it is, he has put his heart and soul into this club and he is a winner and a very bad loser, he hates losing. Not only does he hate losing, he has to shake the hand of the manager of the team that has just beaten his team and then go and answer the inane questions of a lot of bloody journalists, so please don’t any of you ever think that Wenger doesn’t care or isn’t hurt by the poor performances of his team. You can say that it is his job and that he is very well paid to do it and of course you would be right on both counts but it doesn’t make the pain any less.
Having said all of that Wenger appears to have made mistakes and is not above criticism. The team just doesn’t seem right at the moment – even allowing for the players that are missing for one reason or another – it lacks shape, structure, balance, cohesion and apparently any kind of plan as to how each match should be played. It often seems to me that the team is playing ‘off the cuff’, ad-libbing when it needs a good script and this may well work when you have a team of seasoned professionals who know each other very well, but it can’t work when the team has seen many changes for many reasons and has never had a settled run of form.
I remember Tony Adams saying how Wenger had encouraged him to play more, to take the ball forward; he did and it was fine because Tony had thoroughly learnt his basic defensive duties earlier in his career – as had his team mates but younger players need a simple plan, they need to be clear what is expected of them. They haven’t yet served their apprenticeship and expecting them to play with too much freedom and make their own tactical decisions only causes uncertainty and mistakes, as a result confidence will drop.
I believe that the end of this season will see this happen; Wenger will approach the board for more money so that he can sign a number of new players and have a dramatic reorganisation of the team and maybe some of the support staff will change as well. If the board agree I think Wenger will stay. He will want to stay because he hates failure and will want to leave on a high and there is a sufficient number of promising youngsters at the Club to make a reasonable chance of success provided they are allied with the right signings. If the board don’t agree then I think Wenger may well leave. I hope he stays, I hope the board back him fully because he deserves that much. What we don’t want is the fiasco of last summer when only average, OK and good players past their best were signed at the last minute. Goodness only knows what strange machinations were going on at the Club then and it mustn’t happen again. We need a plan for the future, a vision and it must include quality and experience as well as just promising youth.
Please please holics, make email to hillwood to make wizzyzeds knew coach of arsenal. he has experience of the big business and he speak for the black scarf binbag
Be aware that the next window will be heavily affected by the Euros and Olympics . it will be a difficult window to get anyone round a table. Deals need to be struck now ! and ratified later.
Potter we need not one or two signings we need about 10 gone we are years away from where we were last year.
Seems I have to remind the hard of thinking yet again. Leave puerile abuse on here and it will be deleted.
wittyzed, before writing to people I would heartily recommend if you want them to take any notice whatsoever of your stuff you at least have the courtesy to spell their name right.
The only other person I know who spells Ivan’s name like that is also hard of thinking.
Bod @ 72, Welcome! Nice first words in the bar, and I echo your last 2 sentences, said exactly the same thing in the first few drinks this bar session 🙂
Norfolk @ 91, Very well said. Resolute, collected, rationalised thoughts.
CPR. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation to give it it’s full title. A procedure used to assist in the circulation of blood around the body after cardiac arrest. CPR is to be used when there is no heartbeat. I am not sure if you had that in mind when you wrote this piece holic but at times this season, especially over the last 5 days it seems to describe our problems well. Gone are the days of the invincible’s. I look back at some of the previous names that we have had in recent years and just know that they would not have allowed the last two performances to happen. Today it seemed as if we had no heart. No desire for the fight. I also thought that as the going got tough we were again without leaders. It was just lacklustre against a side who quite frankly wanted it ten times more than we did.
Most of you know my views so I will not dwell on them again. As I have said before, this is not something that has happened overnight. It is something that has built up over the last 3/4 years. I have always believed in the “building the next team of invincibles” method. I can happily accept sides in the transition or development phases if it is for the greater good. I can believe just as long as the side is not gradually dismantled and those exiting are replaced.
Now, let me take you back to the Milan game. During much of the build up there was reference to the victorious side that played there four seasons ago. This was another side in the early stages of development. So, where is that team now? Why has it not evolved into at least the nucleus of our side now? To be honest I have no idea. What I do know is that next Sunday you are more likely to see more of that victorious side of 4 years ago in a Spuds shirt than an Arsenal one. That dear holics may be just the roots of all that has gone wrong in recent years.
You are spot on holic. We have to get behind whet we have. After all, you can only piss with the cock you’ve got. I would be lying if I said that I did not fear for the rest of the season, and the summer for that matter. I still have no idea what the long term plans of Stan and Ivan actually are. I wonder what they thought of today? Being honest, I wonder if they actually know the result??????
Get behind the team boys. By thunder they are going to need it. Perhaps then the old heart will start beating again.
As always, onwards and upwards.
lurkers you are so close.
Where did that info come from?
Now do you understand the first drink?
Heh! ‘Holic @ 95, I was going to bring up that matter myself, before I forgot about 10 lines into the emotion infested letter.
It has to be rational and concise.
I think this has to be one of the worst seasons for Arsenal i have witnessed in well over 20 years. I have a funny feeling though about something but i dont know whether it is potentially good or extremely bad.
I keep on coming back to the fact that we probably have well over 100m saved in the bank and even though we have to keep money back as regards the debt as part of the agreement but i reckon there is probably at least 75-100m spare for transfers because even years after being told are property debts are clear and we cannot clear the stadium debt early without huge losses (paying only about 15m a year) and we are constantly making huge profits from player sales etc especially last year, then it begs the question WHY is that money sitting there. I have come up with 3 possible answers 1 many people will think is good (depending how much you like Wenger) 1 is great and the 3rd is BAD.
1) Wenger is squirreling away for the next manager so he can add to the team and take away as he pleases and have a good enough amount to make drastic changes as he see fit.
2) All of a sudden we are gonna see some decent players hit the emirates (if the wage structure is revised)
3) Kroenke has lied and has loaded the club with debt and it is being kept quiet.
There are probably a lot more explanations but these are the ones i can think of. But all i can say is no matter what we feel about this season unless the owners and Manager are completely stupid this is going to change.
A lot of people are saying ‘we are a business now and football comes last’ Well let me tell you this if Wenger is ‘business minded’ and an economist and the board are in it for money…………..it is SUICIDE business wise to carry on like this, you do not go into a business knowing you have to renew things like shirt sponsors and naming rights etc and then just let the whole core of your money (the team and product) go up shit creek it doesnt add up. Wenger should know and Kroenke more than anyone football only survives with happy punters and the more this carries on the more it devalues the product and they will lose money. So i would say (not being a stupid optomist but a person that expect a business person to be a bit greedy) expect changes because they will not want to lose money.
This could be the absolute perfect time to play Spurs,or the worst….not sure yet lol.
‘You can only piss with the cock you’ve got.’
Indeed, Steve T 🙂
I’m behind the lads, the manager and MY club.
I’ll wait till the end of the season before ‘going off the deep end’ if it even needs to happen, it doesn’t help anyone at this stage and juncture.
Maverick
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/results-for-the-year-ended-31-may-2011
@Goonerholic,
Does anyone actually know roughly what we have in the transfer warchest…….even with rough calculations. I think we have got SERIOUS money to spend but funnily enough the club is never transparent about it after all why would they be.
It’s all there Maverick, you cannot be much more transparent than fulfilling your legal obligation to publish your annual report.
After the business of the summer most educated guesses at what is available are between £30m and £60m.
We do need to offset any signings with sales, and not just to free up salary, but also to free up places in the 25.
Holic your coments @105 are exactly why i say we are now years away from where we were last season,we need to sell so many players of poor quality,the same players that will hapily sit and take wages just as Almunia has
Snir @ 83: Guardiola coming in as Coach with Wenger moving upstairs to either the Board or as Director of Football (responsible for scouting & player development) would save this great club of ours in one fell swoop..
RvP would stay and all the top stars would want to come (I hope that he likes Goetze) and he’ll tell us that Messi has a ‘buy-out’ clause that states that if Pep leaves Barca he can leave as well for 10 Quid!! (0;
No seciously he is the one who can be trusted most to carry forward the Wenger legacy. Arsenal is the club that most closely reflects his own ambition…he can’t go to Man U as no one will succeed after old Red Nose…
Excited (0;
* Seriously I don’t know what “seciously” mean…really )0;
‘Holic @ 98
Yeah, I think I’m getting there.
Our beacon of ‘trust’ was quoting “directors and senior executives” earlier. Briefing against ‘the caretaker’ perchance..?
Holic,
A really great post.
I’d like to make a point or two about our midfield, which is beyond doubt, where our problems lie:
Cesc is one of the greatest midfield players in the world. Any team would miss him, even Barcelona. We don’t miss Nasri. But we do miss Cesc.
We’re unfortunate that Jack is injured. If there was one talent in the world you’d want to sign / step up to replace Cesc, Jack would be one of those targets.
If there was another, it would be Mario Goetze. Arsene Wenger put €40m on the table to buy Goetze. Dortmund refused. I’m going to repeat that, Arsene Wenger, the guy who rarely spends big money on any player, put €40m on the table for Goetze. Dortmund Refused.
Plan B was Juan Mata. Wenger courted the player and his father if accounts are to be believed. Then chelski swooped and offer him a vastly superior pay packed plus a £7m tax free signing on fee, (again if reports are to be believed). Alongside Silva, Mata has lit up the premiership. But In signing for Chelski, his motives were clearly more financial than football.
Plan C was Arteta. Not as talented, but proven and mature.
People wonder why Wenger waits until the last few days of the transfer window. Its because anyone he identifies, if published, will most likely be countered by petro dollars and larger salaries.
And so he does his best, is routinely abused as being someone who won’t spend money, or try to bring in talent. Yet still, here we are, fourth in the league, after an abysmal start, with a new stadium, low debt, a firm vision of how the game should be played and with a channel of young players coming through.
Today was awful. I’m not here to make excuses. Like Holic and Steve T, I believe we got what we deserved. We made silly mistakes in defense, when we largely controlled the game. PM is sorely missed. And Wenger has made some huge mistakes.
But as fans, you either believe in whats been achieved and the ambitions of the club, or you don’t.
If you don’t, then maybe its time you considered someone else?
What year does the new stadium lose the new stadium Tag,we were told there would be a lean four years we are now past that are we not.
Good thinking lurkers.
Now ask who has briefed Steve Stammers for his latest piece?
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/EXCLUSIVE-Arsenal-set-to-smash-wage-cap-to-keep-Robin-van-Persie-and-attract-new-star-signings-article866960.html
“The board believe there are extensive funds available for manager Arsene Wenger’s transfer targets.”
Civil war has been declared.
Woah..
The key passage, of course being..
“Now, at last, Arsenal are set to join to the big league. Their current wage bill is among the highest in the country but that is because Wenger insists that all squad players earn comparable sums…”
War indeed.
There is a reason players demand a high wage that is QUALITY,Arsenal off sets this buy scouting young talent and trying to develop that quality whilst paying a medium wage,problem being that the quality needs developing and not all if few reach QUALITY status,leaving the club with alot of players of lower quality on better wages than deserved,the problem then become removing that dead wood,you get what you pay for if you want quality buy it and reward it,
lurkers, would it not be incredible if the leaks were coming from someone who has to authorise the “comparable sums”
G’night all.
Up the Arsenal…
Holic you really need to stop Piers Morgan from making all these fake accounts and posting underneath your blogs……
Yes ‘Holic, it would…
An executive who was effectively interviewed and appointed by a caretaker.
It’s dysfunctional.
Holic,
Can’t believe you’re questioning the Djourou contract extension. It’s been on Arsenal.com for days!
As for today and Wednesday, no more excuses.
It’s Wengers players, the squad he built, his “tactics” his “motivation”
Very sad, but he needs to do the decent thing at the end of the season and resign.
As for the fella on here who said no one ever names a replacement, here’s a few, just off the top of my head…
Pep Guardiola, Unai Emry, Dennis Bergkamp (with Bouldy) In fact anyone with tactical nous and who doesn’t consistently reward failure.
Jeff, not questioning the extension itself, merely that the salary, which obviously wasn’t officially released, is now being bandied about by some who claim to have had confirmation from ‘senior executives’…
The Steve Stammers article ‘Holic links to above also clearly comes from an executive source, and there is a clear reference to AW’s insistence on ‘comparable’ salaries in the squad, and that this insistence has prevented the club from paying the salaries that might have kept Na$ri or attracted top players. Funny though, because the board have to sign off on all contracts…
Whether you agree or not, and frankly it is hard to justify £60k per week for Diaby, for example, the point is merely that it all points to a serious schism between the board and the manager, and that the board are now actively briefing against AW in order to cover their own backs.
It’s getting messy.
Holics,
The days are gone when I would drop in the bar and indiscriminately lob rhetorical molatovs. We are all the better for that bloggular maturation. Many would benefit from such development.
Internecine squabbles? Is that what we have come to? A damn shame if true. If I had Le Boss’ ear, I’d tell him to stop being the whipping boy for the board and come clean with the supporters. Fall on your sword and all that. Perhaps it’s too late.
It could be that Wenger has been waging his battles on the pitch this season. Refusing to make tactical adjustments within games and from game to game; fielding some players to exhaustion rather than “cooking dinner with the groceries others bought”; basically saying to anyone with ears, “You want to tie my hands AND be cowards about it, well here – see how the team fares.”
The sad thing is that the supporters suffer for it.
I don’t buy the line that you can’t criticize the team or the players because it will damage their psyche. Come again? Grown men (I don’t care if they are 16, if they sign up to play a grown man’s game, then they have to take ALL the trimmings), getting paid GROWN MEN’S salaries, can’t then complain that their feelings are hurt. Get out there and perform.
As I posted a long time ago from my dark corner in the bar, the opposite of love is not hate – it’s indifference.
Right now, I am extremely indifferent.
bmbd
You know Lonestar’s serious when the BMBD is in lower case. 😮
Demoralizing. I usually just read but under these circumstances, I am compelled to commiserate with fellow Gooners. Yet, I can’t help but wonder what will come of it?
It is strange to be wavering between moments of madness, where I both curse Wenger for a stubborn mule and sit in awe at the kind of football infrastructure he has built for the club.
I am equally at a loss to fathom how we can by all appearances be so consistently at the frontier in terms of health facilities, work environment and general investment in player well-being, yet suffer nightmare after nightmare each season in terms of injuries. Actually it is so garish it is now verging on comical, really.
If I try and be practical about it, I am not sure ‘Wenger Out’ will solve anything. The truth is I trust him more than the board, and the current majority owner and these would be the people tasked with choosing his replacement. Funny enough the more I think of it, there seems to be a growing similarity between the soulless incessant plodding of Wal-Mart inspired business practice and the repetitive product on the pitch.
It would be a bit of a leap to point solely at any one source of blame, and blame in general serves little purpose. But I do think there is merit in examining the current product on the pitch and the ‘modus operandi’ enforced from on high.
Something that sticks out in this weeks Arsecast comes from monsieur Auclair’s observation at how alone Wenger seems to be in terms of accountability. It seems he is running everything, and I wonder, it that has to do with a similar kind of cost cutting, or unwillingness to spend on support staff, that we find on the pitch?
Is this down to Wenger refusing help? Or being dedicated to the club and refusing to acknowledge that they expect him to deliver without that help? Or at least to get by with cheaper knock-offs of the kind of re-investment needed to remain a top club…
I am reluctant to say Wenger has lost the plot. When it seems to me he is simply working way too many story lines. Tongue planted in cheek I see the weariness in his face of any other overworked Wal-Mart employee.
I am not an Usmanov proponent but I am of the opinion it is time we vocally question whether present ownership truly understand what it means to run Arsenal FC? This is not just another “entity” on paper that can be assessed by numbers, and at the moment, I believe in the eyes of some crucial figures, we are nothing more than the above.
Bad turn of events in a match I knew would be extremely difficult. As I said weeks ago, if we won the first time the second time around would be much harder. More effort was there but fuck me, Coquelin going off injured completely deflated the team. When I saw Squillaci warming up I feared the worst but after a few minutes of adjusting he didn’t seem to do that badly. Djourou and Sagna were way off it, Sagna could and should’ve blocked that first shot but he stopped. Lack of creativity really killed us. We should’ve adapted to their system but didn’t. Is it that we don’t work on different ways to attack? It seems like we pick one and try to work it in every game despite the circumstances. Oxlade was really unlucky, keep your chin up fella.
I’ve noticed is that when things are going bad, the players on the pitch don’t seem to try to lift each other’s spirits or wake them up. The players seem to be in a defeatist mood, punch-drunk even. We need our soldiers to pick each other up and keep fighting.
With regards to transfers and the financial side of things, I think the time has come to dismantle the wage structure. I don’t mean pay through the nose for any and every player we hope to get but, quality must be rewarded accordingly. Having everyone on the same pay packet might seem to prevent discord among the ranks but a) it hampers the sale of players we want to offload and b) it hampers our ability to keep the players we want to keep. Surely we can adjust our wage structure so that it rewards players according to their contribution to the cause?
UTA
LOL, Wind @ 122.
Thanks, boss…I needed that.
Bmbd (on the way back to recovery) 😉
Re: Joe @110: With you all the way.
Been reading the L’Equipe interview again which gets more informative the more you read it: http://news.arseblog.com/2011/11/wengers-interview-with-lequipe-full-transcript/
In the interview Le Boss describe our style as being founded on ‘insouciance’ which means:Casual lack of concern; indifference. That takes a lot of confidence – even arrogance to pull off…well with the sheen rubbed off our image & reputation even Sunderland was pushing us around today…its going to take a lot of hard work to get back to where we were…Here are a couple of instructive quotes for those too arsed to read the whole article again…
_______________________________________
L’Equipe: It terms of technique and tactics, we have seen your team struggle like never before. Have you looked to change your footballing principles… become less ambitious?
Wenger: Our style is founded on a form of insouciance when it comes to risk-taking, and this is something that had disappeared. As a result, there was no longer spontaneity in our play and we were in difficulty. So we decided to try to get some ‘small’ wins. Confidence is something you lose quickly and regain slowly. You climb back up the slope step by step. But I never considered renouncing my playing philosophy. On the contrary, I told myself that if I also abandoned the playing habits that this club has been founded on until now, the team would become disorientated. If I tell the players tomorrow ‘hit the ball long towards the forwards’, they will be even more unsettled. I have kept faith in our style, knowing all along that it would be hard work and laborious.
_________________________________v____________________
L’Equipe: But it looks like you are obliged to rebuild once more. Just like at the start…
Wenger: It’s true, a new cycle is starting. When we left Highbury, I set my sights on a long-term project with a young team. It didn’t produce the results I’d hoped for. Yes, we have to rebuild.
L’Equipe: With you? Will you embark on another long spell?
Wenger: No, as far as I am concerned, we are now talking pretty short term, that’s obvious. But whether it is with me or someone else, that changes nothing. The person that comes in after me will need foundations on which he can obtain success.
GT@127:
“Wenger: No, as far as I am concerned, we are now talking pretty short term, that’s obvious. But whether it is with me or someone else, that changes nothing. The person that comes in after me will need foundations on which he can obtain success.”
Does that sound as if we are in the final months of the AW regime?
Breaking: Na$ri revealed not to be French lesbian but Spanish actress: http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Ariadna+Gil/Celebrities+Attend+CEC+Medals+Gala/gE1JSn9uPzV
In terms of AW 15 years the two years of his contract left to run are short term.
What did we all do after a game like today’s before there were blogs on which to vent our spleen? Go home, kick the cat and forget about it until the next Saturday. May have been better for our mental well-being.
NZG@131: fair point.
NED: you were @ 131 you facking nutcase…perhaps you should have just kicked the cat…(0;
Ned one thing is certain AW must know he will not and cannot develop this crop af players in the time his contract has to run,we are no longer one or two signings away from a good side,And i am interested how he proposes to move the at least Ten players that are simply not good enough.
Really shocked that almost none of our players now seems to pass into space. they try the safe pass it to feet in the final third.
wenger is not a stupid guy. he knows this bunch of players cant achieve it. probably saving all the dosh for the new guy.
just looked at the table at our away record.
goals for 24, goals against 26.
if rvp was not on fire this season, wenger would have long gone. this could get worse if the players dont rally around the manager.
terrible bunch of players at the club at the moment but we need to get behind them regardless.
we will see intentions of where we are heading in the last days of the Russian window,Arsh should be the start of the deadwood going,we have OX,Gerv,Theo,Benyoun till end of season,this should see the russian out the door
One sure thing, there are 2 possible futures at the end of the season for Arsenal: we qualify for the CL or we don’t.
If we qualify let’s hope the club will go for solution and we win all the competitions at once, just in time to renegotiate our big sponsoring deals.
If we’re out of the top 4 the club could still opt for solution, something like Liverpool or Chelski but much much better. Of course solution will account for:
– A loss of 30M revenue in TV rights
– No dreaming filling up the ground with these ticket prices
– Knowing football operations excluding sales are barely breaking even
– RvP and Song gone or with vastly increased wages
– At most 60M (dream on) to spend on players whom we can’t offer CL football
– A reduction in the wage bill
– Competing with teams whose owners have bottomless pockets
– If your solution includes Guardiola or Mourinho taking over this needs to be reevaluated too
Not one to doubt that solution would still bring us glory but obviously being in the CL would be a massive boost.
In the end it doesn’t matter whether you’re pro or anti this or that we’re all much much better off with CL football next season. And with the team in this state they’ll need to be carried up to the final line.
By “solution” I meant “insert_your_own” but wordpress censored my brackets, sorry about that.
I love AW.
This is piercing my heart.
I don’t want him to leave like this… Out of the backdoor, fighting with the board, abused by the fans.
I love AW :'(
N7@75: a lot of managers have indeed been the latest fashion to want as Wenger replacements. Let’s also not forget a certain Andres Villas-Boas who instead went to Chelsea where he is a storming succe… oh, right.
lurkers@78: “What I can believe, however, is that the beancounters inside the club do not understand the game. Do not understand fans, do not understand the club.”
This is what I believe as well. However, I do not know this to be the case, so just as much as I am not demanding Wenger’s head on a plate I am not demanding anybody else’s. This is perhaps the most frustrating bit, we just don’t know what the fuck is going on at the club.
Snir@83: well, seeing as it is the Daily Heil and the Mirror I don’t see much credibility in any of those articles. Haven’t even bothered to read them, to be honest. And if Wenger quites as manager, I think he must leave the club entirely because whatever he would do at the club, even if it is just serving lunch at London Colney, he would cast such a massive shadow over his successor that it would become an almost impossible job.
SteveT@97: every word just spot on.
lurkers & ‘Holic@various: very interesting stuff. I don’t quite follow exactly who you are referring to but this still does tie in very well with the theory of a huge rift between the board and Wenger.
Terry@127: cheers for the excerpts from L’Equipe, as I don’t speak French I can not read the original article myself.
Drinks all round, I’m off out for a bit to shovel some snow away.
Great post SteveT.
I take the point that we are sometimes pipped at the post when it comes to new signings but other clubs sometimes seem to manage better and a great club like Arsenal shouldn’t use this as an excuse.
The point has also been made that our policy of signing promising youngsters and developing them is difficult and dangerous because too often we end up with mediocre players on big wages, witness all the loans out (loans out mind, no one wanted to buy these players). Too often these promising youngsters turn out to be no more than that and all we succeed in giving them is a big money and a big head for little or no return. I really believe that there is no substitute for proven quality and experience to mix in with talented youth and it will be interesting to see how things develop over the next six months or so.
As I see it there is no choice but to change the philosophy of our club if we want to get back to winning ways. In the meantime we must give the team and manager our whole hearted support.
ND @142 the signing of Jenkinson is classic example of what is wrong with our market spend,we oviously needed a back up RB for the normaly mostly injury free Sagna,but to sign Jenkinson shows that the academy and youth scheme is not functioning properly,we have to buy a player in to develop,if a player from our development side of the club was not up to it we should then be buying in players that have experience,
Apologies Terry. The spam filter really didn’t like the L’Equipe link, but it is there now.
just as much as I am not demanding Wenger’s head on a plate I am not demanding anybody else’s. This is perhaps the most frustrating bit, we just don’t know what the fuck is going on at the club.
In a nutshell, Lars.
However when such tensions exist there can only be one winner. He who pays the piper calls the tune.
It’s a real fun to read how they blame Arshavin, even now. Well, if somebody doesn’t notice, the guy didn’t played last two games in a row, and last time I’ve seen him on the pitch he made an assist to winner. Real dross, right. “Out-list” guys, go play your FIFA -12 or whatever, you don’t get a clue about game.
Hi ‘holic, checking in from sunny Berlin.
Do you need a couple of voices in a week’s time? We may be struggling but these two Aussies here are still excited about the Derby. Colour me crazy but I feel this match is set up nicely for an important, if not famous, Arsenal win.
Look forward to sharing a pint with you on Sunday and sharing stories tall and true. Come on you reds.
But if Arsene is the piper, ‘Holic, and we assume that things will turn around, then he is the Piper at the Gates of Dawn. That fills me with High Hopes, and if the players can just start to Run Like Hell, work hard like Dogs, Pigs, or Sheep (well, like Animals, basically) then maybe the joys of winning trophies can make us feel Comfortably Numb instead of wanting to escape to the Dark Side of the Moon. We would no longer have to watch Cesc play for Barca and think “Wish You Were Here”, and to all teams who play against us we would say “Welcome to the Machine” before making them feel like Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together In a Cave and Grooving With a Pict. What I am saying is that maybe the future is bright but just Obscured by Clouds? Or am I having a Momentary Lapse of Reason? Are we approaching the Final Cut? Is it really all about Money these days? Are we struggling to Breathe, have we run out of Time? And more importantly – Is There Anybody Out There who is still reading this? Am I just hearing the Echoes of my own voice in an otherwise empty pub?
Or is this all the Gunners Dream? Are we still Learning to Fly? Alright, I’ll better Stop now before I find myself evicted and have to stand Outside the Wall…
Goonerholic,
labelling someone thick based on one spelling mistake, great.
I can see similarities with rest of the AKB brigade and you, even the manager and CEO, i.e. to blame every one and everything but yourself. The first step on road to redemption starts with admitting you are wrong, but the club are incapable of doing so, so are you.
The club talk about running a sensible business model, does that include not ripping off fans on its way to accumulate more than 3 millions in match day revenues? When Wenger talks about tough economic conditions, does he think about the fans who have to part with hard earned cash to support the club they love? When he remains loyal to mediocre players for too long, does he ever care about fans’ loyalties.
When they talk about financial restraints, does that mean one of the highest wage structure in PL?
The answer is plain and simple. While the manager remains loyal to mediocre players, live on the past glory, CEO happy to take the bonus based on facebook and twitter followers, the marketing team coming up with only 3 deals over 18 months while taking huge salaries, NO ONE cares about what the fans feel.
When you talk about releasing spaces in squad of 25, do you honestly think the 13 players are counted above deserve to bleed this club and wear the shirt? If you are just interested in making up the numbers in squad then don’t pay 120 millions in wages to them.
You can remain as delusional as the manager is, and like him, have the luxury of your blog mentioned on the official website to attract traffic and adverts. Club are happy to put your name there as they know you are singing the same tune.
Could you answer few questions or ask the club to answer these? When Gazidis promised summer clear out, why did not this materialize? Why all the efforts to sell Denilson, Almunia, Squalacci and Bendtner failed? Why Cesc was sold half of his market value? Where the profits from the previous years have gone if the are no dividends paid to the share holders?
We are fourth place of the premiership wage payers and we are in fourth place in the league, 😯
You are right wittyzed,
I’m sorry, it really is all my fault.
Do these people who keep banging on about our £3 million matchday revenue from ouur home games understand the difference between turnover and profit?
To those who still consider our business model sustainable, consider this:
We are a football business, and a football business’s product is its football. Just like the best car companies hire the best engineers/designers, and buy the best manufacturing equipment, so a football business should invest its profits in the best engineers of the game, the managers and coaches, and the best productive equipment, being the players.
The management of any business whose products fall from being the best in the market, to being the 4th/5th/6th/7th (as we were a few weeks back, and are very close to being again) best, would not survive.
Sadly what the board do not seem to realize is that having only the 4th to 7th best products on the market, mean that they are less marketable, and ultimately this will hit the business’s revenue. Aside from the obvious smaller shares of PL tv revenue, and the loss of CL tv revenue, our revenue from sales of tickets clothing etc to fans will deteriorate. YES – I agree the die hards (like myself) will still continue to attend games when possible, and follow the team on foreign TV, but im going to be less likely, as will many others, of participating in the clubs other revenue generating angles.
In addition the long term effect can be devastating – new fans of the sport are not going to be as attracted to a BUSINESS with the 4/5/6/7th best products, as they will be to a BUSINESS with the 1st/2nd/3rd best products.
Now sadly as we hear too often we have the 4th highest wage bill in the PL. And we have the biggest stadium bill in the league. So we damn well need to keep filling that stadium. And selling those shirts. And raking in that CL revenue. Cos if we do not, our costs will very rapidly overtake our revenue.
Still sound like we have a sustainable business model? The only business model this sounds like is that of SAAB, and MG…
Thank you Dave,
That is exactly what I am talking about. You and I may not be singing entirely from the same hymnsheet, in as much as I suspect we want different solutions to what ails us, but you have respectfully made points I have also spoken of before.
This is a Football Club, and the underinvestment in the football side of the business is costing us, I believe. I don’t think you will find too much in the way of over the top disagreement when you come here and argue that with civility.
work it out bitches…..we got fucking scrotenham next!!!ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL!!!!
Dave we have a problem though.
We generate our finances within football while two of our competetors generate there finance through crude oil.
That’s more like MG and Saab competing against Ferrari’s if they was all in the same price bracket.
It is an unfair market and trying to keep up with the jones’s will cause clubs to go up the wall.
@ Holic 154 – So where to from here?
Also let me mention that then i speak of managment in my post I refer to Management in the business sense, I.e. the board.
But that said, I think probably the next change that needs to be made is to put AW out to pasture. Not that I’m joining the militant abusive knuckle dragging “Wenger out” brigade, who have polarised opinions and cast a negative light on any rational arguments in favour of the removal of Wenger.
Some of My reasons for wanting him gone are as follows:
– The team tactics and overall attitude seem to be jaded, as they have for some time.
– Wenger seems incapable of dealing with the transfer market
– He has now presided over more years of failure than of success
– CRUCIALLY he seems incapable of motivating Stan to pay any interest in the club. A great many improvements in business are made when enthusiastic motivated line managers (Wenger is a line manager in this business, effectively) are able to motivate their CEO’s into taking an interest in the problems they have on the floor.
Painful though the future without Wenger may sound, I do think it is the only route out now..
And as far as replacements are concerned, I put forward options such as: Guardiola, Capello, Ancelotti, Mourinho, O’Neil, and even the likes of Moyes. And if you look around leagues like the budnesliga I reckon you’ll find many more smart capable enthusiastic men.
I think my arguments for terminating Wenger’s employment at the end of the season are pretty rational. And more rational voices will be calling for a new football manager.
@ Andy 156 – Fair enough.
One of the oil funded clubs is in trouble for different reasons to us: It is now common knowledge that any manager, no matter how much success they bring will be under the sword of damocles. This means that they will increasingly find it difficult to hire top talent, because of the petulant demand for success from their autocratic patronage.
BUT – 2 of our competitors DO generate their revenue from football, namely Man United, and Tottenham.
Man U have always had a bigger fan base from the busby babe era and the totts are above us for the first time in 17 years, the old blind squirrel.
Wait until the Spuds get the hard hats on and their trowels out.
We are where we and that is a tribute to Arsene, his previous success is becoming a stick to beat him with.
I see my attempts at a bit of light-hearted humor @148 were a bit premature. That, or nobody else in here likes Pink Floyd 🙂
dave@157, as far as motivating Stan to pay interest in the club there could quite possibly be things afoot in a not too distant future. There is an agreement that expires in April that no changes shall be made to the board, but after that Stan can, if I understand things correctly, pretty much do what he wants. Now, don’t take this as “just you wait, things will be much better”, I am just suggesting that this could be a reason for Stan’s perceived inactivity. But I may of course be entirely wrong.
Seems weird to mention Tottenham , and our competitors, in the same sentence?
Hope that’s something I don’t have to get used to 😀
Afternoon folks. Didn’t feel much like posting a drink when I got back from Sunnerlint in the not so wee small hours of this morning, but nice post ‘holic – am with you 100% on the need to get behind the team right now – and I hope it wasn’t too much of a bother for you dealing with any trolls over the past hours.
A lot of themes emerging in the drinks that I think we’ve been over a lot before so I won’t add to them. But I would like to make a general point about our business model. A model is exactly that – a model – into which various assumptions/variables are introduced and their likely effects on the business are determined. No-one can seriously argue with the basic premise of self-sustainability in devising any business model – to do otherwise is madness.
The key issue which a lot of vexed supporters are struggling with, is that “our model” does not seem to coping with a number of external factors (lower property income than expected, financial doping of other clubs, economic recession etc etc). I’d argue the reverse – the fact that we are solvent and in a good position to take advantage of the financial misfortunes of clubs whose finances are in a parlous state has put us in a very strong position indeed.
However, how that strong position translates into on-pitch success is an entirely different matter. It is not the fault of the model that a player gets injured. It is not the fault of the model if we can’t find a loan player to replace him. It’s not the fault of the model if the players we wish to buy don’t want to move, or can’t move because their current club won’t let them.
Our model has created a current kitty of somewhere between £30m and £50m depending on who you believe. It doesn’t decide where that is invested.
And while I’m here – top drink @ 148 Lars 😉
@ MtS 161 – yup distressing isnt it!!!
@ andy, and others:
So heres the question – if Sheik Maktoum decided he wanted to go toe to toe with his good bud Mansour, on the football pitches of england, by buying arsenal and pumping in his petrobillions, who at this stage would object??
dave: Tottenham are a one-off – and more importantly, their success this season is funded by the exact same money that funds Man City. Adebayor makes more money than any player on our squad but Tottenham are paying far less than half of what he earns. The figure that seems to be bandied about the most is Spurs paying about £70k of his £170k wages which is just ridiculous. That and an incredible luck with injuries (or the lack thereof, rather) to key players have put them where they are right now. Take Adebayor (who might be a full-on idiot, but he’s been massively important for Spurs this season) away and let us have Wilshere for the entire season and I’ll bet you we’d be comfortably ahead of them right now.
Also, all the contracts with their key players were written at a time when they were much less successful and the players hadn’t broken through in the same way. I doubt players like Modric, Bale, VdV, Assou-Ekotto and others will all settle for relative peanuts if clubs like ManU (who, like it or not, still are very, very attractive to most players), Barca and Real come calling?
Holic, re the Mirror article you linked at 112.
I take on board your point about a rift and the board hanging Wenger out to dry.
But the cynic in me sees another angle to it, for this is a well-timed leak considering we have just 14 weeks until season ticket renewal time.
Remember when Gazidis promised us ‘a busy summer’ last year? I expect to see more quotes and articles aimed at hoodwinking the masses as season ticket renewal deadline gets closer.
Top Man Snowy – top post. And I am not saying that because of the last line, by the way 😀
(but cheers for the kind words anyway 🙂 )
The point about the model not being to blame for the injuries is a very good one indeed. I have said so before, but let’s assume an injury-free squad. We could then play this team, for example:
Szczesny
Sagna-Kos-Vermaelen-Santos
Song
Wilshere-Arteta
Oxlade-RvP-Gervinho
Subs: Fabianski, Walcott, Arshavin, Ramsey, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Jenkinson
Benayon, Chamakh, Park, Squillaci, Djourou, Diaby – all surplus to requirements. Proper talents like Coquelin and Frimpong does not even make the bench either. Is that really such a poor squad? Is it a league-winning squad? Not very likely, but far from a squad that should be struggling for fourth in my opinion.
@lars 164 – it is a good point and believe me i’d like nothing more to see the cracks begin to appear at tottenham financially. ‘opefully ‘arry ‘as the same crippling effect on them as he did on Pompeii…
One also i suppose needs to consider that they are like the single guy at the office with a shitty little apartment they paid off years ago, who can go out and buy himself a brand new BMW every few years, versus me who is paying a big fat mortgage on a big fancy house for my family to live in: Im stuck driving an 8 year old car, and will drive it for the next 8 years in all likelihood! Like Arsenal i have a lovely home, and a beautiful family to share it with 😉
What I struggle with is how jaded the team looks, and i can help blaming the coaching
Gooner Steve: last summer WAS a busy one. Vela, Denilson, Bendtner out on loan, Eboue, Nasri and Cesc sold. We brought in Jenkinson, Gervinho, Mertesacker, Arteta, Park, Campbell and Benayoun in. We may question the quality of those who left and those who came, but it was busy even if most of the action came late in the summer.
dave@167: well, at least we agree on Sp*rs, that post gave me a good laugh – cheers for that 🙂
@ lars and instead of the beautiful family they have a couple of fat hasbeen prostitutes and some guys smoking crack down the passage…
Lars @ 166 – 😉
I do agree. It’s an excellent first team line up indeed.
On the way back yesterday I was reflecting on how far we seem to be now from that wonderful October afternoon at the Bus stop in Fulham, when a good portion of the line up you quoted gave the Chavs such a spanking.
And I think TH12/14’s recent visit and departure showed how massive the impact that one single change could have on morale and success.
I’m not an AKB and I’m not a gloom and doomer. But I think I’ve seen enough of AW over the years to believe that there will be a pretty fucken good reason (or several) as to why this squad has not been strengthened. I would love to know what it is (or are), and I guess when his memoirs are published we’ll find out….
And if he is in the middle of a miserable board level shit fight about where/in whom to invest, I wish him well. If I had to choose between him or Ivan and Silent Satan, I know which would get my vote.
dave @ 167 – heh 🙂
Lars @168
I suppose it was busy, but Gazidis’ quote was intended to make fans think Arsenal were about to bring in real quality to improve the team, not sell two of our best players and then panic buy on deadline day.
He misled us. It’s like the club insisting there’s 60,000 at every home game despite 10,000 empty seats. I expect more spin and lies from the likes of Gazidis in the coming weeks to persuade us to renew.
@ dave 163.
Yep I am a man of principle and that may well be my last days as a Asenal supporter after 45 years.
I would rather see Arsenal relegated than support a rich mans toy.
RIP football. 🙁
I’m hurting. You’re hurting.
The only thing that will take the pain away is a victory over the LWCs. Even if it is only a short-term palliative.
There’s only so much rum a man can drink……
Or as an arsenal supporter even.
zico @ 175 – 🙂
Will you be gracing us with your presence on Sunday good sir?
Lars: “I see my attempts at a bit of light-hearted humor @148 were a bit premature. That, or nobody else in here likes Pink Floyd”
Nice piece of humour, Lars, I just didn’t think it needed an answer. I’m afraid it’s about “and then one day you find ten years has got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun”. Now it’s seven years, but it could be ten as well.
andy @ 174 – I feel your pain.
In a way football has always been something of a rich man’s plaything, when Chairmen were appointed on the size of their wallets and were expected to cough up some readies when times got tough.
The scale of it all these days is just ridiculous though 🙁
It’s a tough gig being the poster boys for financial responsibility when there are others that don’t play by the rules (and probably won’t ever)
Personally I am hoping that Wenger gets more unpopular and does the right thing and move on…
It would be very difficult for any sucessor to take over a team that can challenge for a champions league place without any prospect of trophy, whats the point? Money? Arsenal´s stock would go south and quickly with a 5th or sixth place finish.
I just dont feel the same about the Arsenal teams in the last seven years that I did in the 70s, 80, 90s and early 00s Cesc, Nasri, Clichy, Eduardo, Adebayor just didnt do it for me but are great players in their own right.
I would be prouder of a team made up of a selection of academy talent that had heart and soul rather than pretending the team has a chance of titles….. wilshere, ramsey, thomas, larsson, chamberlaine, gibbs etc
Either that or getthe cheque book out pay the good players what they deserve and go into dept
Man Shit can play in front of an empty school field with no sponsership on the shirts give all the tv rights and CL monies to oxfam and still pay three times the wages we do.
So is there any point in risking arsenal football club trying to compete?
pray to the lord that FFP brings in some sanity.
Snowy @ 175,
Alas no. Cultivation of Brownie points has recently ground to a halt making a southern bound flight unlikely till next month. It’s the cold front that was forecast, but it will soon be spring. 😉
Respect to you for another long haul trip yesterday to God’s forsaken country….
@andy 181 – i havent seen the details of FFP. I know it seeks to limit the direct patronage funding that chelsea has seen, but does it have mechanisms to prevent clubs like city circumnavigating those regulations, as they might to by channeling that patronage through Etihad’s supposedly legitimate sponsorship?
For instance if Google, an unrelated company entirely decides that being on Arsenals shirts is worth GBP500m per year to their brand and gives us that by way of sponsorship, we wouldnt object right? In our minds we’d have earned it because of the respect we deserve as the greatest football team in the world.
So whats to stop mansour channeling that from his personal accounts via Etihad?
Shame zico – see ya next time then.
And as for yesterday – no respect required – I did the easy bit (turn up, drink, sing, leave) 😉
dave @ 183 – it is designed to prevent clubs persistently spending more than is covered by income, and sponsorship deals must represent “fair value”. I believe Shitteh’s relationship with Etihad is currently being reviewed by the UEFA independent financial control panel in that regard.
So far I’ve not heard of any outcome of that though.
In my experience wealthy individuals and companies tend to employ smart advisers that can ensure they remain wealthy. I expect Shitteh are doing the same.
Time to switch my allegiance for the next two hours – to the mighty Stevenage Borough.
Come on you …….. er whatevers.
Gooner Steve, re: season ticket renewal.
A few I have spoken to are not renewing, and a few more have punted the idea that if enough don’t renew, then we’ll get back to just being able to buy tickets on general sale, as and when it suits.
Seems like a plan to me?
GH @ 154 I’m not sure we underinvest in the football side of the business, I think the past investment has been substantial but ineffective.
In particular grossly overpaying for renewed lucrative contracts for journeymen squad players (I don’t have to list them we all know who they are). The fact that we were unable to move a number of them on with permanent deals last Summer is clear evidence.
I’m all for paying top dollar to world class players, but the club should be a meritocracy. We also need some squad fillers and they should be paid less.
I think Dave @153 made an excellent point, the game globally is growing rapidly at the moment and the new fans are being attracted to the currently successul sides which does not bode well for our future commercial revenues.
What is so damned annoying is that the same things are happening time and time again. As I sat in front of the box I just knew how the game would pan out, and when Djourou conceded that kick I said oh shit this is it; and sure enough it was. I even predicted that Squillaci would be at the heart of things. I shall be going next weekend, but as much for the pre-match beer as the game, as I fear we are in for a rare spanking. I cannot see any of this team rising to the occasion as it`s the Spurs game.
It really pisses me off when people talk about Arsenal being a role model for financial rectitude and good business sense. When we reached the final of the CL we raked in some £50m., and I don`t know the exact figure but we probably earned up to £30m. by beating Udinese. Tell me it makes good business sense to see this revenue stream slip quietly away. Kroenke as a businessman must see this. Without a major cull of those overpaid and underachieving players, and fairly massive investment in proven quality replacements, the future looks bleak.
I noted that Arsene, post match referred to Arsenal having a `small chance` of qualifying for next year`s CL. If we are currently in 4th spot, I`d say we had a pretty decent shout at that, and I`m afraid Arsene almost sounded like a beaten man. Who is there to pick the manager up when he gets down.
Sorry for that. I`m feeling better now.
Just watchin’ the Stevenage game, not a bad word against the totts is coming from a commentator lips.
Hate the media!!!!
Dave & Snowy: four of City’s eight main sponsors are owned by the UAE government in which the club’s owner is a deputy prime minister. Just saying.
Ethiad’s chairman in Mansour’s half brother. UEFA is meant to take family relationships into consideration when assessing compliance with the FFP rules, but the fact that the deal is in place before the rules kick in may may mean City can get away with it. If it is allowed to, it will just show UEFA to be a joke when it comes to enforcing FFP.
There’s all kind of waffle abounding around “mediocrity” today. This about a young team who’ve gone further in Europe than only one other in England, further in the FA Cup than two Manchester sides who I suppose are not mediocre, and sit sixteen places ahead of a whole league who must be worse than mediocre by definition.
And this talk spurred by a defeat in a very hard FA Cup game against a well-rested Sunderland side that fought hard for a victory in a game that could have gone either way. Arsenal had lost two very fine centre-backs in the preceding six days and then lost of a fine young prospect at left-back within ten minutes of the start of this encounter – to join the already-missing TWO first-choice left backs.
But let’s not detract from the mediocrity diatribe of the mediocre scribes by introducing perspective – we’ve got the knives out here. So it isn’t worth mentioning either the full-season absence of the best creative mid-fielder that Arsenal (or the England national team) has following the very regretted departure of Cesc. Very clearly, it is this lack of creativity and incisive passing that lies at the heart of our current issues.
I had expected this would be a tough game when the draw was announced. Not because Sunderland are an unbeatable team –Arsenal disposed of them comfortably only a week ago to go fourth in the mediocre BPL (although, having spent 200M+, the mediocre Manchester City couldn’t win there). Even at the time of the draw, a demanding trip to Milan followed by a tough away game was never going to be easy.
I thought Bacs was at fault for the first goal. Richardson would have been closed down comfortably, or even had the ball nicked away by Sagna at 100%. Not surprisingly, he’s not right back there yet. While Alex The Ox is getting the headlines for the second goal, Arteta being brushed aside in the build-up was most telling.
Holic hit the nail on the head while others bemoaned substitutions:
“The midfield trio, has just fallen apart. Devoid of form and confidence it is painful to watch them passing nervously, slowly, creating nothing, and protecting nobody”.
Ramsey has looked tired after his first full season back from leg-break, but yesterday’s injury will add one more challenge to the remaining three. Nor can Frimpong be recalled to cover, Le Coq’s hamstring will deprive him of the opportunity to add his particular brand of skill, passion and endeavour in MF, and Diaby’s injury woes preclude his opportunity to excel. ALL bloody Wenger’s fault, of-course (!)
It is what it is, but the majority seem close to suicide, Wengicide or Silent Stanleycide – some even planning boycotts, apparently. Quite mad. The fight for fourth is on. I’m up for it – see you at The Tolly for the Villa and Shitty games. Will I be able to get tickets, I wonder or will the Black Bag Brigade have snaffled them all?
Only ONE Arsene Wenger.
The other aspect of City’s Ethiad deal is that some of the money will be used for property development — training and other sports facilities, shopping &c — which is exempt from the FFP rules, but which, when completed, will open up all sorts of new non-football sponsorship opportunities.
On a sadder note, a young friend of our family, Paul Cromie, died last week.
He was a Gooner through and through. Although, sadly, his final days were spent in a wheelchair, they were brightened considerably by Arsene Wenger, Robin Van Persie and Theo Walcott. The final photos on Pauls FB page reflect Paul’s pride and enjoyment in spending time with all three, smiling through adversity.
Thank you Arsene,Robin, Theo for this kindness.
Paul, I know you wish you’d managed a few more goals and a few more games. I’ll give the team a hearty shout for you next time I have the great good fortune to go to see The Arsenal play.
Stirring rallying cry, BtM.
And a sobering reminder there are more important things in life than football.
I said yesterday that I would swap the FA cup for fourth place and that hasnt changed. I have also written that to be beaten by the better team on the day also dosent bother me, however being beaten like lambs dose bother me !!!!
All great teams have off days and dont perform as a team but some how manage to get a win any way, one look at Man U over the premiership years is a great example of that. I am not saying they are just lucky as they have played some great football and have deserved there sucess down just sheer hard work when the team is just not clicking.
If we dont click we dont win and there has to be something said about that, we seem to be devoid of the good old fashion hard graft and this is a massive problem which ever way you want to look at it.
Technical ability will only get you so far, if you are not Messi then work harder. Its also a problem how we are so ready to accept conceeding goals and defeat. Love him or hate him have you seen how Chris Ronaldo reacts when Real Madrid conceed a goal. He takes it personally and tries harder and he is WORLD CLASS and that is a fact.
So lads please go the extra mile or risk getting your manager who has rolled you all in cotton wool the sack !!!!!
Come on you GUNNERS !
Just what I needed BtM. Thank-you.
Joe @ 110, greater explanatory words are often not spoken 🙂
Very Well Said.
Lonestar @ 125, no problem Bud 🙂
Snir @ 140, its a </3 breaker, isn't it? 🙁
ND @ 142, too right.
WittyZed @ 149, pretty sure there was more than one mistake… 😛
Snowy @ 162, I believe I have just seen you in 'Top Man' Form 😀
Dave @ 163, I'm with Andy @ 174, to succumb to that WOULD NOT be the Arsenal Way.
Lars @ 166, exactly!
BtM @ 193, well in.
Sign him up!!! 😀
And sorry I didn’t see your 195 post before – as NBN said at 197, more important things indeed.
Good goal Wind.
That’s more than Harry Redtwitch and his ‘mighty’ Hotscum could manage at League One Stevenage it seems.
Are they in crisis?
BtM. Sad to hear, but thanks for sharing and putting the perspective on things at 195.
And brilliant as usual at 193.
And should you have the need for tickets, let me know 😉
I’m with Fin above me BtM @ 202, didn’t see anything until after 200.
Thanks Ollie 🙂
It would be ironic if after all these years of austerity measures at Arsenal a billionaire like Usmanov takes over and pumps in millions which results in success on the pitch.
Thanks BtM,
And apologies Lars. Pink Floyd were before my time 😉
heholic
Quality.
From one more of the exceptional young talents that Arsene Wenger has brought to this very fine club of ours.
http://football-talk.co.uk/59704/video-highlights-ryo-miyaichis-goalsocring-performance-bolton-millwall/
Hurricane well in Son..remember that I am your self-appointed agent (0;
Hellollie,
What is this I am seeing? Lyon being tamed with less than ten to go 🙂
drona @ 205: Yes the Uzbec just can’t wait to pump his billions into the club he loves so much…don’t be silly..he’s not a Billionaire because he loves to just give his money away…he sees the Arsenal as an opportunity to make some money just like Dein, Kroenke all businessmen who will come in the future…just get comfortable with that idea because that is how it is now and for ever more..
No handshake from Remi Garde?
Two-bob 😉
anybody@178: cheers 🙂
BtM, great post@193. And thanks for sharing@195.
‘Holic@206: before your time? Hmm, judging from the YouTube clips you usually post here I’d rather say they were AFTER your time 🙂
Aye ‘holic (since you’re here I shouldn’t have bothered texting 🙂 ).
Climbing back up the table!
Ollie@203: Totnum in crisis!
Well not really gained a position, but leaving a wide gap behind and closing in on teams above.
Two cracking results in a row Ollie. Didn’t expect that.
Moi non plus, ‘holic.
And now for something completely different :
http://www.francefootball.fr/#!/news/2012/02/19/183256_accident-et-operation-pour-banega.html
Proof that sometimes it’s better to keep the handbrake on.
(footballer forgets to put handbrake on at petrol station, car rolls over footballer’s foot)
@ goonerterry,
Does abramovich fall into the category of a billionaire that won’t spend his money in the club?
And comparing Dein to Kroenke, really? The same Dein that brought Arsene to the club and bought us the best players we’ve ever seen at our club. Oh I forgot. He made £75m from the shares he purchased for £300k. Ofcurse he played no part in turning Arsenal into a successful business before selling though did he? Should hhe have donated his shares to UNICEF or perhaps the AST. Grow up.
We really have got to gets of this sanctimonious high horse we all seem to sit on as Arsenal fans. He’s okay, but he’s not….his face fits, his doesn’t. Perhaps we should only have Nobel prize winners as owners or board members. Yeh that’ll work.
Love the moderate views on here – in fact, win or lose, yours is one of the very few blogs I bother to read anymore for some perspective (including in most comments).
This season the side lacks tempo in its play; our midfielders often take 2-3 touches before making the obvious pass to the unmarked teammate next to them. If any player dares a flick or a one-touch pass, groans ring out around the stadium if the pass doesn’t reach its intended target. The team seemingly has a collective cramp, or is playing ‘with the handbrake on’ as the boss would say.
I may be in an ever-shrinking minority, but I still have full faith in AW. I’ve just accepted that, given the financial environment, the days of us regularly winning titles are gone. Long term, it’s simply not possible to compete (in terms of wages/transfers/etc.) with the mega-rich clubs – even though in fact we are competing with Chelsea at the moment, something that Wenger doesn’t get credit for. Maybe an odd cup run here and there, but CL football is about as good as it’s going to get, and the sooner we realize that, the easier it will be to enjoy this and future seasons. Is it a coincidence that over the past 8 years only the richest clubs have won the league (not just here… look at Spain and, soon, France)? Spurs may be doing well at the moment, but noone really thinks they’ll win, not even twitchy.
Replacing Wenger won’t be the solution – you could bring Guardiola or Mourinho or Capello (he’s available) or anyone of them. The style of play would change, not necessarily for the better, but they couldn’t afford to compete with the richer clubs either.
Enjoy the ride until the rest of the season – big week-end ahead!
BtM: After reading your post I feel quite humbled for allowing my frustrations to seep into my consciousness in the aftermath of yesterday’s result…I was back quickly last night but you have completed my recovery and for that I thank you,,
Joe you too! Top Gooners one and all…
Wind: Nice response to the Zed…saves me the trouble (0;
‘holic: We just have to cleave to each other mate…there is nowhere else to go..
Up the Arse!
Some truly insightful and balanced posts to read through. Such a welcome break from the cliche-ridden inanities that are advertised as analysis in much of the media.
Being a relative neophyte of the Gooner-religion — fan only for over a decade and hence familiar with the AW era only — the recent drop in quality and performance is despairing and frustrating, but at the same time it presents an opportunity to introspect the true extent of Arsenal’s rise and calibrate one’s hopes and desires around it.
Myself, and dare I say most of us non-local international Arsenal fans without any real roots to North London or even wider England, have become Arsenal fans because of the extraordinary skill, courage, attitude — and as GT pointed out, insouciance to quote AW — that the earlier AW teams displayed. Event at the best of those times Arsenal was not really a trophy-winning machine like Slur Alex’s production lines (mean no disrespect here, but great and successful those teams are I would not go back in time and exchange my support knowing full well in advance the heartache of these lean years) or the finest teams in continent like RM, Barca, AC Millan, Juve at their peak years. It is the verve, the imagination and yes the insouciance that made us love a team in this manner.
Sports is originally about doing things by yourself, and then admire those who do it much better, and fall in love with those who raise the excellence to the level of artistry. The winning part is really really important, but one’s personal self should not suffer from such sense of lack that winning becomes everything.
In a strange and ironic twist of fate, in the last few years everything about Arsenal has been discussed purely in terms of winning or lack thereof. Even when the team has played excellent breathtaking football the general verdict was ‘so what? would they win the bloody thing, nah!’. That has had its impact on the players. It visibly drained out the joy of playing with imagination and courage. This is not to give excuse to the myriad failings of the club, the board, AW and his players. But to speak from a slightly different perspective about why it is important Arsenal plays with the insouciance Arsene speaks about. Confidence and skill feed each other, it is a closed loop built on talent, training and encouragement. That is why I am moderately optimistic about the future of Arsenal with many talented and well-trained players coming through.
A short comment about the AW vs. board rift: I think it is very well obvious to anyone who hears with open mind. At the beginning of January Arsense said (quoting from memory) “it would be stupid to suffer for the rest of the season simply because we don’t have a true left back” or something along those lines. I would think it is not easy to guess how and why he could not find even a single replacement worthy enough to even temporarily fill in for the injured Santos and perennially injured Gibbs.
The season has not ended yet. Fourth, even third spot is up for grabs — and wouldn’t that be an achievement given the dark predictions at the beginning of the season after the eventful summer? — and in the home tie I hope we will show the world Arsenal can still play like only Arsenal can play irrespective of whether we progress to the next round (unlikely) or not.
Norfolk @91 – Steve T @98 – two great posts. Now for the rest.
North Bank 1 @ 219: Are you one and the same as drona @ 105? Because I was addressing his specific point and I don’t see how your respond relates to mine..
I don’t really like to quarrel with Gooners so I will overlook the snipe…you’d probably like to know that I am 56-years old…so growing up is already achieved. Thanks.
BtW: It was also Dein who brought both Kroenke and the Uzbec to the club. Turning a profit on all the time, love & dedication he put into the club just reinforces my point – that even someone who loves the club wants to make a few Bob now and then..
And FFS please don’t bring up the Russian bastard when you are discussing anything with me – it just makes me want to puke…Why not join a Chelsea forum. They seem to need a few smart people to help their discussion along..
UTA
North Bank 1: Oh I forgot to mention that Friday’s are reserved for punch ups! Come back for FFF and we’ll have a proper punch up outside the bar…its usually fun..(0;
Keep it until Friday ‘holics 😉
Interesting point. I don’t suppose my views on the Uzbek would surprise anybody, but he is at least the only check and balance on the current custodians of our heritage.
Would peoples views change if it were Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum trying to throw money at the club rather than the alleged gangster?
I know what I think, but I won’t tilt the debate one way or the other…
}0;..sorry guv..
@ goonerterry,
Interesting you should mention your years, it would appear age doesn’t always bring wisdom.
As for the rest, just my point of view of course.
I think I’ll refuse the offer to join the Chavski forum however when it’s quite clear we have a ‘Terry’ all of our own right here.
Terry by name….hmmm, I wonder.
Joe, Snowy, Lars – more top stuff up there.
I’ve said for ages that logic and body language tell you that Arsene has been operating with at least one hand tied behind his back for a long time.
The “pay them all about the same” strategy has, I believe, led to big problems in reshaping / clearing out the squad of deadwood. That has probably been Arsene’s biggest gamble and it has not come off.
It could have led to a side fantastically motivated to fight for each other but, unfortunately, shortfalls in talent in some of those players have rather wrecked the plan.
So how to start again ?
Availability, possibility and desire are all variables in an unfair transfer market, that have hindered AW in his recruitment plans.
Goetze has already been mentioned. Others have bemoaned the lack of a top keeper, but AW had a serious big money bid rejected by Liverpool for Reina. You can’t get much more ambitious in your bids than to try to sign the current World Cup Winning keeper.
For whatever, much talked / debated reasons, the board has clearly not been backing AW for some time.
It seems things are coming to a fairly messy head, sooner rather than later.
If it comes down to a choice – not that it will be ‘our’ choice – who would you want to be trying to rebuild the team, or even the club.
Wenger or Kroenke and Gazidis, with another manager chosen with the benefit of their vast knowledge of the game ?
Holic: Oh I think that he should get a seat on the board definitely…but his pronouncements are typical of one who is on the outside looking in…bet you if / or as soon as he get on the board he starts toeing the line just like the rest of them (0;
Holic,
Sorry your honour….
It’s just like Holic says.
There’s only gonna be one winner in this.
AW is being given the George Graham treatment without taking a bung.
This is uncompromisable and once it started a decision has to be made. AW won’t be able to continue if each side his pulling the strings his way. The board will get rid.
I just hope his successor isn’t a complete tool.
I just hope we get back on track and be a force again.
Arsenal till I die.
Thanks Arsene, too bad it had to end this way.
Back again – to the BtM’s now – exhausting this is!
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/18843
No secret I share Walter’s view of the seasons leading up to this one, but I am being won over by comments like that of zorr0 at 6.01 pm 😀
Yes, Fine stuff BtM, your optimism and fortitude knows no bounds, thank goodness 😉
I’m always fascinated by the debate that start ‘Wenger hasn’t signed x, y, z’
In his defence Arsene isn’t the negotiator of any deals.
It is the one thing that keeps the ‘bring back Dein’ argument alive. Dein got deals done. Now his son his reversing them all.
Really can’t work up the energy to post in detail about yesterday . When it comes to Arsenal , if I haven’t got anything nice to say , then it’s best to shut up .
That said , I cannot believe that some people on here are still advocating Usmanov . The man would destroy what Arsenal stand for in a much swifter and irreversible way than a few bad results .
No , North Bank 1 , he is not a “successful Businessman” . Nor , Holic , is he an “alleged ” gangster . There is nothing “alleged” about it . He is a convicted Blackmailer and Extortioner . He is a gangster , whatever his lawyers might say to the contrary .
On a “sanctimonious high horse” as North Bank 1 would have you believe ?
Err no . Try reading Craig White on the man . Craig White ? Who he ? Former UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan .
If there is one thing I can’t wait for it is AW’s autobiography that he’d probably publish once he retires from the game.
He said many times that there will come a day when he’ll let everyone know of the sacrifices he made for Arsenal.
I, for one, have a strong feeling we’d be finding out some interesting (and IMO demoralizing) truths about our board at Arsenal Football Club.
Terms and conditions.
Note to Schillings.
The views of the drinkers may not represent the views of the poor cunt you read every week looking for nasty stuff about any of your Uzbek clients.
…although of course some of them may perfectly reflect the poor cunt’s views.
Which is which?
There’s the rub.
Sorry Holic 😉
Heh.
Duly noted.
Holic , remiss of me not to mention your great write up of the game . Agreed with every word .
And whilst it may hasten his departure , I for one am actually pleased that Arsene has come closer than ever before at hinting at the rift between himself and The Board .
It is the only thing that goes some way to explaining last summer , and probably the summer before that as well .
I fail to see why AW should continue take the flak for a rudderless and ineffective Board any longer than he has already done .
@242 🙂
Anyway, Maktoum. Yes or no?
Tricky , but in the final analysis , not for me .
We will of course all continue to support Arsenal whoever it is who owns the shares .
I might be deluded but I still think it is possible to compete without the mega mega money , but only if all profits are poured into the football side of the Business .
With the arrival of that kind of money , I think the mostly illusory notion that the Club still bears any relation to the Club that I began supporting as a 5 year old boy , would disappear altogether .
That in my view would be very sad , and I’m not sure that sadness would be assuaged by the winning of trophies .
Would we be able to say much more than we won because we have the richest owner ?
I’m with you, tabs.
@ takeabowson,
Surely you mean Craig Muarry, the sacked and disgraced former embassador to Uzbekistan. The author of “how the Russians plan to invade Britain” first published in The Mail on Sunday (to our foreign contingent this publication is the UK’s weekly version of Mein Kampf).
With such honourable sources/ references as these how could your position possibly be aloof or dare I say it again, sanctimonious. In all honesty I’ve never agreed with a Daily Mail/Sunday Mail reader and I can see that isn’t about to change anytime soon.
Just to clear something up though, being cleared 20yrs after your conviction as the case against you was “fabricated” hardly constitutes you as being a gangster. No more so than say Sir Richard “actually convicted of VAT fraud but not a foreigner” Branson.
As I said, let’s wait for the Nobel prize winners to turn up. How righteous we are. God forbid we let ‘their’ sort anywhere near our club.
I am not a Daily Mail reader . My views and the views of that publication couldn’t be further apart .
Your post could have been written by a schillings lawyer . Congratulations .
Oh really?
Or maybe it could just be that I’m from a different generation. A generation that doesn’t see a foreigner with a lot of money and think criminal, gangster.
Just a tip. If you don’t want to be thought of as a Mail reader try not writing like one.
I have this dreadful feeling that as a club we are up to our necks in shit. A couple of dysfunctional owners who don’t get on and whose objectives for our club are very unclear, a top-class manager who seems to have been dicked about by the board, a group of highly paid players who have failed to fulfil their potential as individuals (bar three or four) or as a team and no clear sign of leadership at any level.
Otherwise things ain’t really bad (yet) but they sure ain’t like they used to be.
…an forward tho’ I canna see,
I guess an’ fear.
You’re not the first person to make that point, NB1, and what you write is factually correct.
At the same time though you have to understand that the people who have emerged from the old Soviet States with position and money have not got into that position in what would be considered acceptable fashion in the west.
You will understand why I feel if it looks like a fish, it smells like a fish, and it breathes through its gills, it isn’t a puppy.
Evening bath. Everything will be alright when we beat Tottenham next week then crush Milan 5-0 with a Park hat-trick.
Have we just jumped from Ian Dury to Madness ‘Holic ?
North Bank: read up on what an oligarch post-Soviet Union is and how they got their riches and then you’ll understand tabs’ antipathy towards Usmanov – not to mention the hatred that most Russians feels towards them.
Acceptable fashion in the West???
Haha, that’s laughable. Really it is.
I know we don’t agree on this topic holic, but any further down this road and we may disagree on a whole lot more….til the next time.
And apologies for the name mix up . Craig White was of course the Australian cricketer who somehow ended up playing for England . Have no idea why I mixed the two up , except to say that a traumatic FA cup exit affects the brain in strange ways .
I am not here to defend Craig Murray . The man might very well be a cunt for all I know . What I would suggest is that he knows rather more about Alisher Usmanov than you do .
Linking him to The Daily Mail ? Plenty of people publish articles in that paper whether they agree with the papers’ politics or not . Lazy and spurious of you to imply that he is in some way a Nazi . Last time I looked , he was a member of the Liberal Party .
The article you speak of concerned itself with the activities of Gazprom and not anything more outlandish than that .
Craig Murray was first disciplined for speaking out about Human Rights abuses in Uzbekistan . He was then surprise surprise charged with gross misconduct . The FCO exonerated him of all 18 charges in January 2004 after a four month investigation but reprimanded him for speaking about them.
So “disgraced ” ? Not really .
With regard to Usmanov , Murray has repeatedly said that he was happy to defend his statements in court, Schillings declined to sue Murray but concentrated on stamping out the story by threatening , the hosting company Fasthosts .
Brave of them .
Being cleared after 20 years ? Of course the evidence was a fabrication . Not politically motivated at all . I’m sure his victims were delighted by the news .
North Bank 1 , you are entitled to your view , but if you’re going to be such a blatant propagandist at least have the decency to say so .
I write like a Daily Mail writer ?
You’re the one defending the abuser of human rights , North Bank 1 .
Congrats again .
Evening ‘Holic, tabs et al,
Turbulent times at THOF? Wonder when or if we’ll ever learn the truth. Kind of feels like the summer chickens have come home to roost. I hope your optimism proves prescient ‘Holic. I have tickets for an all day concert in Wembley on Sunday so will not be at the Grove to see what I hope is a spirited Arsenal revival against our oldest enemy. Maybe we can go one better than Stevenage. That’ll do for me.
Evening Bath , let’s hope so .
Th Arsenal world will look a hell of a lot better after a win over The Spuds .
Snir at 238 – couldn’t agree more. Arsene’s take on what was going on would make great reading.
tabs
I read Craig Murray’s observations some years ago through a link from another web site and was somewhat disappointed by the alleged history of one of our shareholders. Apparently he does not have a Mother Theresa cv. Bloggs did suggest previously that talking in coded terms is prudent with this fella.
Yep fair comment Bath , and I apologise . Holic , please feel free to wipe any parts of my post that transgress Bath’s very wise advice .
I’m afraid that the idiocy of a man who doesn’t know me , and will probably never know me , but yet (erroneously) presumes to know my politics , rather got to me .
Hit me with your night boat to Cairo, Trev.
With what we really know about what’s going on at our club, I feel more like Drip Fed Fred, 😉
I’m definitely too sexy for my Speedoes Trev .
North Bank is right. We are sinking from same him book
Hey Tabs – what a bleedin’ two and eight, eh mate ? 🙁
Dad did always like Craig better.
The pricks.
@ tabs,
So I am lazy, spurious and a propagandist. Interesting.
You can call someone a gangster (despite what his lawyers say right?) along the way accusing him of not being good enough to be involved in our club, reference an Australian cricketer, and quite admirably defend the writings in The Daily Mail.
Lazy, spurious and propagandist? Interesting.
Sigh.
Tabs – @266, would that be Right Said Fred ?
Oh well Tabs, at least you didn’t suggest I join a Chelsea forum. Now that did irritate me a little.
We all want the same thing though right? Glory to The Arsenal.
G’night all.
That’s the one Trev .
Havent defended the writings of The Daily Mail at any point North Bank 1 . Are you able to read ? The evidence would suggest not . Grow up . My criticism of Usmanov has nothing to do with his nationality . Don’t presume to know my politics .
Last day on the slopes for me tomorrow, and an early night beckons.
NB1 @270 – fair semantics I suppose, but you’re taking your frustrations out on a very decent bloke and a true Gooner. May I respectfully suggest you find a more worthy target.
Cheers Tabs.
Cheers Trev , and yes it is all a bit of a two and eight 🙁
I’m amazed at the frequent references to so called ‘rifts’ between Wenger and the Board.
All the evidence is to the contrary; the Board claim that Wenger calls the shots on player recruitment and pay, and that he has had spare transfer funds available for many seasons. Wenger has never contradicted this, if this is an elaborate charade that he has gone along with that says it all for his integrity.
In my view the evidence is clear, the Board are in awe of Wenger, he is frequently described as a managerial genius (what does that make SAF?!!), and no one is there to tell him him that he is infallible or challenge him.
Unfortunately when people are in positions of great power for a long time they sadly get detached from reality and start believing in their own infallibility. Unfortunately I believe this is true of Wenger who doggedly continues with the same approach despite inceasing lack of success.
If I thought he was capable of recognising this and modifying his approach I would be very happy for him to stay on. As I said on the drinks about a year ago, I would love him to prove me wrong but I know he won’t. It gives me no pleasure to be right on this.
To quote the Clash:
“I believe in this, and it’s been tested by research, he who fucks Nuns will later join the Church. Death or Glory.”
Oh my sides.
Tabs, a Daily Mail reader.
The Daily Mail is well known for its’ tolerance of men in make up, Speedoes and Jimmy Choos.
Something at last has made me smile before Stormy Monday.
Heh Dr Z 🙂
🙂
@ Trev,
I know tabs no more than I know you. Just exchanging views. If tabs takes offence and wants to accuse me of being illiterate then so be it. I didn’t think it was a personal thing. I merely pointed out some flaws in his argument/ point of view and expressed a few views of my own.
@ Tabs,
Reading never really was a problem. That said I never read anything as intelligent as your posts before and have struggled at times. Loosen your bra strap pal. The bitch in you is beginning to come out.
Sorry holic, had to be said.
Did it ? Like all of your witterings , not really .
You’ve said good night twice . Please act on your promise . I’m sure there’s other good people out there that need help with their reputations .
Perhaps Rupert Murdoch might offer you a job . Run along .
Hey, we’re all adults here. Even adults will fall out over misunderstandings on a printed medium which fails entirely to convey body language and intonation in discussion.
Let’s keep the falling out civil. So far has fallen the right side of the abuse line, just.
West Upper.
Arsene is the ultimate company man, he will never publicly refute what the board say.
Is the board fucking stupid?
The Mirror is running a piece about AW and in it they state we’re gonna offer RvP 90k to stay.
Are they serious??!?
That’s 10k less than Cahill.
I know you shouldn’t start without maximum obviously but something a bit more realistic would be a lot nicer!
Holic @ 236 never a truer word LOL,have settled down today will enjoy a quite read.
Tabs and NB1’s exchange provides a neat snapshot of the hugely divisive potential of a Jabba takeover. Gooners tearing each other to shreds? Not a prospect anyone can find particularly appetising.
Of course, it could be argued that ‘Silent’ Stan is merely following in the traditions of pretty much all recent AFC custodians, although admittedly ‘Silent’ Danny does not have the same alliterative ring. Still, it’s indisputable that there was precious little fan disquiet in the past over the lack of pronouncements, or indeed investment, from the likes of Fiszman, Carr, or various Hill Woods. Yes, we were successful from 87-92 and 98-06 but there were plenty of fallow times before and after. However, the moment the game really changed was the minute that Abramovich “parked his tank on our lawn and started firing fifty pound notes”… The owner as benefactor had arrived.
From that moment on, and certainly once Mansour followed suit at Citeh, the expectations that fans placed upon their club owners underwent an irrevocable shift. That is the situation Kroenke currently finds himself in. He has the misfortune to be presiding over a sporting downturn in fortunes amidst a global financial meltdown. In many senses it is a perfect storm. Were we still enjoying a modicum of success on the field he may just have been able to ride it out. As it is the rumbling is getting louder and louder. FFP still seems a long way off, and many have doubts if it will ever truly level the playing field. And there in the wings is Usmanov..
All the while sporting success eludes us the clamour will get louder and louder. Expect an enticing statement from him very soon. He will be looking to pick his moment and must be sorely tempted right now. Perhaps off the back of (apparently healthy) cash balances that the AST are likely to flag up tomorrow, and (heaven forbid) a bad result next weekend?
SG @284 Sorry mate I don’t buy the story that the Board are starving Wenger of funds. The accounts show how much we pay for Transfers and Wages.
We have been overpaying the drongoes for years (Djourou’s contract extension is the latest example) and that’s why we couldn’t get rid of most of them in the Summer (apart from subsidised loan deals).
There is one man who is primarily responsible for the current situation, although I would not absolve Silent Stan and the Board for their uncritical adulation of Wenger which allows the current situation to fester.
That was simply an excellent and dignified offering ‘holic. Exactly what I was looking for when I headed this way. Cheers.
West Upper, serious question for you to think about.
No answers. I want you to consider.
Who leaked Djourou’s alleged new salary last week.
Who fed Steve Stammers piece yesterday?
Who has planted the ‘Arsene has £50m to spend’ stories coming out this morning.
The last one is really interesting. The last one is RvP at £200k a week for five years, if the wage structure is being blown apart as reported. Nobody else.
There was always gonna be some form of pr from the board around now.
Upcoming accounts are likely to show a large cash surplus, which will infuriate fans given the current situation. Additionally Jabba is still hoovering up shares and is likely to go past 30% very soon. Usmanov will issue a statement when he feels the time is ripe to do so..
They desperately need to spin this situation to deflect the flak.
There are, of course, precisely two ideas as to which party was reluctant to spend this money, both in the summer and January. I guess we can only speculate, but *someone* clearly thinks that these cash reserves might be needed to mitigate failure to qualify for next year’s CL.
West Upper – I believe there is a big rift between the manager and the board.
While the board is satisfied with AW as their manager because he gets results in the financial reports, AW isn’t satisfied with being hung out to dry by the board, but just like a company man, he takes it on the chin for the company.
Have a look at today’s pieces.
Every piece states that AW’s job is safe unless he decides to leave.
The board is trying to make the public believe that AW has funds to spend, is highly rated by the board, and that they expect him to see out his contract.
I feel they’re making it impossible for him to spend money on players who will help him reach the CL and beyond.
If we fail to reach the CL, it is quite clear AW would leave because he said he would if he feels we are under-performing.
The first cracks came out to the public eye in the summer when AW was adamant to keep Nasri but Kroenke put his foot down and demanded Nasri’s sale.
They’re covering their asses from both ways. From the fans who support AW by saying that they won’t fire him, but he will only leave if he decides to resign, and from the fans who don’t support AW by saying there is no wage cap and plenty of money to spend.
Do you really believe a manager this successful, would be this reluctant to improve his squad and maintain his reputation.
Do you really believe a competitive person like AW doesn’t feel the need to strengthen and challenge for every trophy?
Obviously he does.
For me, the perfect examples are the Nasri situation and the Alonso situation. Do you really think, that AW would pass on the opportunity to grab such a player? He made him a target, bid on him, and when needed to go to the extra mile, he backed out?
That doesn’t seem reasonable, this is Xabi Alonso we’re talking about, an excellent holding midfielder with PL experience (and AW knows how important that is) that would be a perfect replacement for Gilberto. Don’t you think he would have gone the extra mile for him? I think he would, just like he did with Kos, it’s just that with Kos he didn’t have any competition, so it was easier, but he still made sure, that even after 1 and a half months of negotiations we got Kos, no matter what.
All the “evidence” of the past years point to the board giving AW all the obstacles possible.
SG we can only speculate on the true situation with Wenger and the Board. However, if he is being shafted by the Board I would expect him to say ‘enoughs enough I’m off’. Obviously we will have to agree to disagree on our interpretation of the true situation.
West Upper – I do believe he will say enough is enough if we fail to clinch 4th this season.
GoonerTerry takes the ball facing his own goalie – under pressure on two sides – the deftly flicks the ball with the outside of his left foot to…
SG a couple of other responses to your questions.
Re the Nasri situation, if Kronke did step in and tell Wenger to take the money I think he did the right thing. What’s the point in forcing a disaffected player to stay for 1 more year then leaving on a free when you can get £22 mill (I think it was) to reinvest, it sounds like good business to me. He hasn’t exactly set the world on fire since his move.
Regarding Alsonso I think if we had signed him it might have been exactly what we needed to clinch the title that year and who knows Cesc might still be with us. I don’t know who made the final decision on whether to stick or twist. But we are always told that Wenger has full control over how the transfer & wages budget is spent.
Seeing West Upper & Snir distracted GoonerTerry run through on goal screaming for the ball..
We’re told that, but then we’re also told that he isn’t the negotiator, and is only in charge of naming the targets.
As for Nasri, I’m not saying right or wrong, I’m just saying that there is a difference in opinion, and AW doesn’t have full power like people think he does, otherwise Nasri would have stayed.
As for the Alonso case, I really believe he was stymied by the board, because if there is one thing that AW is, it’s a great judge of talent (we’ve seen it time and time again, true, there were some players who were disappointments but they’ve moved on, and they all had talent, fulfilling it was something else), and knowing Alonso’s abilities along with his team’s needs, I’m certain, he would have told them do everything necessary to get him, but they didn’t and he wasn’t signed.
And when I mean everything necessary, I mean everything. The guy was certain he was going to sign for Arsenal. Only after the deal was blown up, Real went in for him.
He sets it up…………..
boom!!!
he showers kisses on Snir…and turns to acknowledge Le Boss …
GH @290 I don’t know if Djourou’s salary was leaked, the only thing I saw on the AFC website was that his deal had been extended.
As far as the Steve Stammer’s stuff is concerned it may well be media speculation rather than be based on any sources at the club. Over the last few years we have had a continuous stream of stories about players we were going to sign which were complete fantasy (Sebastian Frey anyone?).
Regarding planting of stories are you suggesting that there may be some sort of conspiracy to isolate Wenger afoot? If you are right the the management structure at the club is even more dysfunctional than I feared.
GT @ 300 sneaky……..
Well in GT and well and truly deserved. 🙂
Well in, GT.
As for the reports of Arsenal’s transfer budget, perhaps someone was just re-reading a copy of the Sunday Express from early last year. The inestimable Swiss Ramble had a piece in May 2011 analyzing the club’s transfer budget and rounding up some of the numbers being thrown around in the press then, http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2011/05/arsenals-transfer-budget.html. The piece is well worth a read again. It talks a lot of sense and debunks a lot of nonsense about transfer spending. And remember the wage bill is more important to the self-sustainability model than the net transfer spend.
SG@298: your point about AW’s eye for talent is well taken. I’m sure one reason that Arsenal is so secretive about its targets is that to be otherwise would just tip off other clubs to players they wouldn’t even have to scout to know they were good ‘uns.
WU@296: Alonso would have been a wonderful signing. An even better version of Arteta, a perfect partner for Cesc and seemingly tailor-made for an AW team. Do we know the real story? As you say, he seemed to be on his way to us until the very last minute.
Hi ‘holics,
I had a bad feeling about the Sunderland match. Past records show that when meeting the same team over a short period of time in different league games, Arsenal suffer. We lost to Chelsea in CL many years ago when we had to play 4 matches. Same with MU although we lost all with them I think.Wwhat I don’t understand is why do the players need half time talk and other motivational tools when playing for one of the biggest clubs, representing a lineage of great players should be enough? If those are not enough, the very fact that they are in San Siro which most teams can only dream of, or playing for the only trophy (FA), and being 17 point off the pace in the league should be enough, yes? Dark times indeed.
‘holic, an apt extension to your Dire Staits video, would be Dylan’s ‘Something’s happening and you don’t know what it is, do you Mr.Jones?.
We are all Jones.
D10, If we are going Dylan, Desolation Row would be more in keeping with the mood of the bar, BtM excepted.
Some lovely drinks up above…I especially loved the venerable Doctor Faustus who is fast becoming a must-read with his balanced & thought provoking posts..
Glad I look the afternoon off to go to the `hope Botanical Gardens with Mrs GT – It was our 17-year Anniversary on Friday and so a nice afternoon out enjoying the warm sunshine, flowers, birds talking & a bit of people-watching was all wonderful..
Glad too that I missed the punch up between TABs and er…that Uzbek guy. I may be to blame for suggesting he go join a Chelsea Forum! But that was before he revealed himself to be non other than Jabba himself parading as an innocent supporter…shame on you, you naughty Hut..when he reads the following he’ll go back to his Hamstead hovel..
Уходи, или я Усманов покажет свою истинную идентичность. Вы не можете обмануть меня. Я вижу, правда, что вы право ..
Ned, 8thBall: Thanks for the nods re the 300 but it was the easiest goal I have ever scored. This was Snir & WU’s lead up play: http://youtu.be/ur5fGSBsfq8
GT, Marx was right.
Not sure I should admit this, but I actually bought one of these,
http://www.philosophyfootball.com/view_item.php?pid=390
Haha, nice one Ned. I have that skit saved on my Ipod actually. Funny stuff…
GT’s link, CoR, I just bought the t-shirt.
Cheers for that ‘holic. Bit late reading it but better late than never, definitely.
I wish I could write like tabs.
Morning all.
Brass Bales are back though probably not as brassy as a couple of weeks ago.
@Ned,
That seems to fit as well but the way things are going at the Emirates, it sounds a lot like the answer is booing in the wind.
From The Swiss Ramble:
The business model is not quite as robust as previously thought. There has been an undue reliance on player sales with an average £25 million a year being generated from this activity since 2006. Good business, but it makes it hard to build a winning team.
The last AST report on Arsenal Football Club’s finanaces concluded:
‘What is easy to lose sight of amongst all the fanfare surrounding Arsenals financials every time the figures are announced is that on a football basis only, before player trading, Arsenal Football Club just about breaks even. In crude terms, football income and football costs are just about in balance. Player trading has generated the football profits in recent years.’
Some context: Kind of chimes with what Arsene said the other week – it would appear he has to sell before he can buy. Both well-respected sources show this has been happening year on year pretty much since we relocated to the promised land. Like it or not we’s a selling club first and foremost these days. Maureen, Pep et al would love that. Seems we’re stuck trying to find ways of winning on the relative cheap – unless –
i don’t know
Dear beloved Arsenal Football Club
I’m hoping that some of the team in Highbury House dip into our drinks from time-to-time. If so, this is for you.
For the remaining away fixtures of this season including retrospectively for last week’s Milan and Sunderland games, for any further match that we lose, cover the costs of the tickets and any Arsenal organised travel for the tremendous boys and girls of The Travelling Faithful.
However, in the spirit of self-sustainability, cover these potential costs from the Arsenal staff in the following ways:
1) The Arsenal majority shareholder
2) The Arsenal CEO
3) The Arsenal Manager
4) The Player with the least no. of votes in the post-match MotM poll.
Apportion the contributions in the same ratio as their basic weekly income from the club.
In return, to be eligible for the scheme, the fine folk of TTF would need to sign on for the Away Supporters’ Scheme for the following season.
In return again, every Arsenal player, The Manager & The CEO must go to the Arsenal supporters at the end of every away match and acknowledge the fans regardless of the result. This costs nothing and is simply good manners in return for devotion to The Arsenal, no?
Although highly punitive and probably naiive in nature, it would be a true performance related scheme linked directly to the one metric that is at the heart of every true Arsenal supporter. It would also help to strengthen the bond of all supporters to our club.
Further, it would demonstrate a unity in our Club, from top-to-bottom, that we are all focused in the most important aspect of The Arsenal i.e. consistently performing to the best of our ability on the pitch.
FYI, I have been an Arsenal Supporter for over 40 years, I only get to a handful away games in a season and just over half of the home matches. In my defence, I am educating my young son into being a Gooner for life too.
Yours with respect and hope for an even brighter future.
Lars I agree that with a full and fit squad we have a pretty decent team, one problem is what to do in the mean time to shore things up until those injured players return, another problem highlighted is that the back-up isn’t yet good enough. That, however isn’t the end of the storey. It doesn’t explain a team that is unbalanced, unsure and quite frankly often seems baffled as to what to do on the pitch. There has so often seemed to be no tactical plan in order to get a result – other teams, less well endowed with talent and ability than ours (even our second string), often seem to get a result in spite of their shortcomings, why can’t we? I’ll leave other drinkers to fill in the ‘answer’.
Snir @ 292, that is a very good analysis of where the club is at the moment.
Cheers!
Decent sentiments TS but our CEO wasn’t even at the Milan or Sunderland games sooo – leadership, and that.
And in the next day or so when the club almost certainly, once again, announce more “profit” – i hope they put it in the proper context
I feel bored and almost depressed.
Ollie – that what happens when you live and work in France
– ok i jest
Something that seems to have been lost in all the post-weekend hysteria is that we’re not actually sh!t this season… we’re just really, really sh!t away.
The fact that we’ve just played three away games on the bounce has really hammered this home.
Try picking a bad Arsenal result at home this season. Now do the same with away games – Old Trafford, Blackburn, Milan, Sunderland, etc etc etc. We’ve lost more league games away so far than Blackburn, Villa and West Brom, and as many as Wolves.
Our home record is two points worse than Utd (and better in the champs league), three points worse than Spurs and better than Chelsea and Liverpool. Only two teams have conceded fewer league goals at home: City and Liverpool.
Why this is the case, I have no idea at all. I suspect that marginally softer fixtures have played into it, and there’s probably a mental element.
Anyway, the point here is that there’s something at least to build on. This side is not a total dead loss and if they can get their heads right and start winning on the road, or at least avoiding getting beat, then our fortunes will turn around swifter than might be expected.
What I, personally, would like to see us do is to pitch up to a game like Saturday’s and just sit a bit deeper. Sunderland were at home, rested and ready. The onus was on them to attack and I believe that this Arsenal side is more comfortable playing on the break than dominating possession and looking for through balls into a packed box.
It would be nice to see us mix the tactics up a bit, and given our results so far we should certainly be approaching away games in a different manner to home.
March all the players up to Highbury Hill and publicly flog ’em . That’ll teach ’em .
And no-one’s mentioned little Jackie Wilshere . Single parent at 19 !! Moral bankruptcy I tell you . Too much sex , not enough football . It’s all his fault .
I’m off to my Club to slag off some furriners .
N7@327: interesting stats, and the funny thing is that last season we were the best team in the league away from home but, iirc, not even in the top half at home. Very, very strange.
Norfolk@323: there are absolutely more issues than just the individual players, so I think you make a good point there. But player by player, we have a rather decent squad.
Lars@329 – I was thinking the same thing. I think we ended up second best in the league for away form, but we were the best until quite late in the season (when the collapse really took hold).
I cannot for the life of me understand how a team can be so lopsided season to season. It convinces me more than ever that our problems are largely mental – the players feel a pattern emerging and they don’t have the much vaunted mental strength to break the cycle.
My suspicion is that what we need to get things going the right way again, beyond a massive infusion of cash, is a fat slice of luck in a major game.
I’m talking an opposition player being sent off in a vital Champs League game for shooting after the whistle has gone. Or a last minute cup final mix up between a keeper and a defender. Or maybe coming back from 4-0 down thanks to a red card and a couple of dubious pens. Or a cup game where the other team scores a pair of own goals.
One of those moments where you just know that someone up there likes you and it’s all going to be OK.
You make your own luck in football, it’s true, but whoever’s making it, ours is shit.
Whilst I accept my views may not be in keeping with some on this forum I still believe my views to be relevant and objective. Suggesting I write for Murdoch because I am objective says more about your mindset and how limited some peoples reasoning can be.
If we accept we have shareholders then we also have to respect peoples wish to sell their shares and peoples wish to buy. My problem with the ‘he’s a gangster’ argument is I’m pretty sure on the share transfer form it doesn’t ask for a occupation or reputation reference.
The point is if you don’t want ‘his type’ of person involved in our club perhaps the club shouldn’t have shares available for them to buy. Any calls for people to grow up should maybe consider the very adult world of market economies and what they mean to businesses that operate within them.We can’t have it both ways.
I have yet to read any comments regarding Silent and whether he made his money ethically. Also does this standard apply to ALL shareholders big and small? I can guarantee you if you scratch deep enough you would find a few people who currently own shares that probably don’t have a squeaky clean backgrounds.
When I hear the criticism of Usmanov it stinks of an all too English arrogance centered on a prehistoric colonial mindset that struggles with someone foreign having acquired their wealth, how did u say it holic, in an manner not acceptable to us in the west. Lest I remind you that how the west acquired its wealth is hardly something to be proud of. As I’ve said before a ‘his face doesnt fit/ not his sort round here’ has no place at a modern club like arsenal especially with so many fans not from north London, England, or even Europe.
I assume tabs is neither an Uzbeki or an associate of Usmanov. I can only assume his and other views are based on what little press coverage there is on Usmanov and Wikipedia. So why he feels he is in a position to condemn him for all the things he mentions only lends itself to the view that the ‘little Britain’ mentality is still alive and kicking.
The post-Dein board have overseen the worst and most unsuccessful period of Wenger’s tenure. There is now talk of boardroom rifts alongside squad under investment, dusty trophy cabinets, and inflation busting ticket price hikes. All the time our second largest shareholder is not even allowed a seat on the board. And rather than the question being asked why instead we point the finger and say, ‘not his sort, his face doesn’t fit’.
Change is coming. It certainly needs to and I for one am willing to listen to anyone who has something sensible to say. I’ll leave the character judgements for those obviously better qualified.
Tis truly rotten indeed at the moment, N7.
northbank1
It doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to ask for people to show a bit of tolerance for your own views re: Usmanov, while simultaneously informing us that anyone opposed to the man has a “prehistoric colonial mindset that struggles with someone foreign having acquired their wealth in an manner not acceptable to us in the west.”
If someone is a crook then they shouldn’t be anywhere near Arsenal, wherever they’re from, whatever colour they might be.
You can argue moral relativism and who are we to judge what’s right and wrong in Eastern Europe, you can suggest that there may be minority shareholders with skeletons in their closets, you can point out that we don’t know everything about Stan. I don’t buy any of those. It’s just a way of arguing that it’s okay to be an arsehole because there are lots of other arseholes out there.
I’m the son of a “foreigner”, so I think you can probably assume that I’m not coming at this with a Little England bias, but I don’t want a man like Usmanov within a country mile of the Arsenal, based on the available information. If he was dressed as a pearly king, hugging a bulldog and waving a union flag I’d still feel the same way.
I don’t like crooks and I don’t want them near my football club. Especially when they’re on record previously as supporting Man Utd.
You do make some very fair points about tolerance for the views of others though. I can see why some would want Usmanov in/Dein back and the last thing the Arsenal blogs need is more shit flinging.
I’ll leave the character judgements for those obviously better qualified.
For someone who works so hard to promote the Uzbek’s cause with carefully chosen words, I am surprised to see the lack of grasp you have on the concept of irony.
Double-edges swords and all that.
And Andy Goram knows all about duality.
N7, your point about playing on the counter away from home is bang on! That’s what most teams do, including manure. Two banks of four and break at pace when you get the ball.
The thing is though, we need defensive solidity to do that. “Park the bus” a bit and see what happens..
We are too one dimensional in our football and I don’t know whether it’s because of Arsene.
At San Siro, the pitch was crying out for some aerial balls from back to front/diagonal to build our attacks but we insisted on building from the back and losing it in the middle of the pitch
Ivan missed the games in Milan and Sunderland because he was away skiing. Stan was not at either game because, well quite frankly I do not know. I guess he feels that one or two games a season is all he needs to do. 5000 loyal fans made it to Italy. 4500 made it to sunderland. Perhaps there lies a massive problem. I have said before that I think both Stan and Ivan may well have under estimated what they were taking on. I have seen little to change that view point.
Some intetesting points re Usmanov above. I do agree that it is very strange that someone who owns 30% of the club does not sit on the board. My guess is that there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes that we are not privy to. Quite frankly they need to be sorted, and sorted now.
One thing I do believe is that AW does not get the support he deserves. At one of the most important periods for the club in recent years he should not have to be the only spokesman.
Afternoon Holics. I would certainly not put it past Usmanov to be conducting a propaganda war in the Blogospere as a preemptive strike ahead of the end of year reports. What would it cost really? One or two clever people to come on here and other sites and talk up the Uzbek as the Lord & Master that the Arsenal needs to lead us from the wilderness. Jesus H. Christ!
Without claiming to be an Oracle, the questions I have been asking for last 3-4 years (on BBC 606 and these Arsenal blogs) are;
1. Why there is no balance in the team in attack and defense
2. Why we consistently getting caught on counterattacks
3. Why we cannot soak some pressure and hold on to narrow leads
4. Why we concede when we are in dominant positions in possession and shots on target
5. Why a simple ball on top leads to goals most of the time (something AW himself finally admitted after Milan game)
6. Why we rarely score from set pieces (corners, indirect free kicks)
7. Why teams playing against us with no strikers and all midfielder end winng or taking points against us
All of these points are relevant here despite change in personnel from previous . Call it a lack of plan B, lack of leaders, lack of creativity, lack of killer strikers, lack of cover for key players, knackered core players because of lack of alternatives available or anything else, but the bottom line is that none of these issues are new.
Issue about the squad size and injuries are one of the most interesting one. Despite all the noise about financial restraints, we have a wage bill of 120M plus and if that amount cannot provide you with 25 quality players who can cover for one another then, I am at loss to explain what else you need. The answer may be simple though, that many of the players who are eating a sizeable chunk of this wage bill are there just to make up the numbers but cannot do the job when asked to. That prompts the question, why they are there then and why we are paying them millions of pounds every year, why we have not got rid of them, why we are relying on small number of players who, by playing every week, get tiried come the business end of season. Who is responsible? Why people like Almunia, Squalacci, Denilson, Diaby, Gibbs, Arshavin, Park, NB52, Vela, Chmakh and Rosicky are still at club. Why someone is not telling Walcott how to beat his man and be effective winger not just one trick pony. Why, despite saying that it will be foolish to drop points because we don’t have full backs, no cover was bought despite enough time around winter months. Why people are being asked to consistently play out of positions and get injured. And, most important of all, why we are repeating same mistakes match after match.
Unfortunately, we don’t know the answers to these questions and may never know what is happening behind the scenes. You may hope that it may get better after getting so much worse. A part of me hopes that may be not qualifying for CL will be a blessing in disguise but then I think that not having CL money (TV as well as gates) on top of low income by finishing low plus low commercial revenues and no more quality players to sell (bar RVP in last year of his contract may fetch 15M or so), this will be the final nail. Someone pointed out that Swissramble analyzed and suggested that if we take away the players sales, we barely break even, but then some people ask we the club are not being honest with the fans about it, if that’s the case. If this not the case, then why the players are not being replaced if we have to sell them for one reason or another with similar quality.
So, my friend, like you I am dejected and don’t know what the solution is despite knowing the problems. Dark, depressing days ahead, unfortunately
Steve, he was at a wedding of a friend of his family in Mexico.
N7, I disagree about the on the break stuff.
The whole point is that we’re good at home where most teams try to sit deep and catch us on the break so any change of tactics to something that is working is pointless.
We should be changing the away tactics.
This game would be like no other because Spurs will try and attack like a home team and we’re gonna be trying to attack like a home team, creating loads of space (the only type of game Theo is useful at – hint AW).
Wittyzed,
I’m all for scoring more goals and letting fewer in. Do you think that might help?
@TS 322
Very nice points
BTM,
Did not help Keegan’s New Castle or Arsenal of 2004-05 so I don’t think it will work third time around 🙂
Snir
With regard to playing on the break, I wasn’t talking about home games – just away games, particularly away games where we’re tired and the opposition are fresh.
The stats speak for themselves – we don’t need to change much at home.
Oh dear , the irony of a poster who bemoans the tolerance of views allowed on here , whilst at the same time championing a man who uses his ill-gotten gains to suppress freedom of speech .
Oh dear , the irony of a poster who bemoans the fact that it is suggested he work for Murdoch , whilst at the same time castigating anyone who dares criticise his poster boy as a “Daily Mail ” writer .
Oh dear , the irony of a poster who says that his views are “objective” , but yet disputes any criticism of his poster boy because it is not “what his lawyers say right” .
Oh Dear , the irony of a poster who bemoans the criticism of his poster boy as coming from an “arrogant” and “little Britain” mentality , whilst at the same time ignoring the many supporters from the global fan base who have the same concerns .
You’re right about one thing though NB1 . Nothing I can do about it , but I really do wish that an apologist for criminality and others of “your sort” were nowhere near this Club .
@339: I’ve never witnessed a training session wittyzed, but my guess is that we probably don’t spend enough time doing defensive training without the ball but more time working on attacking with the ball. I’m just speculating though…
@322: Great post TS. Our away support is one of the best in the land. They always do us proud.
People who are always clamoring for a more vocal Chairman should consider Ken Bates! He is famous for self promotion and getting in front of the camera at the drop of a hat – which he usually drops!
A few words about our David Dein: He introduced Danny Fitzman, Stan Kroenke and Usmanov to the Arsenal Board. He eventually fell out with all of them. First he sold 13% of his shares to Stan to get him a foothold, but then Stan soon found good cause to side with Fitzman in how the Arsenal should be run. Pissed he then formed an Alliance with Usmanov; sold his shares to the holding company: Red & While Holdings – in order to make a bid for the club. That failed because he was depending on Lady Nina’s shares and SHE decided that he and the Uzbek were unsuitable. He then promptly fell out with him too…What should we make of all this?
I have no issue at all with Stan. He continues to make good on his promise not to load the club with debts. He legally bought the shares that Danny bequeathed to him on his death bed saying that he was the only one that could be trusted to steward the Arsenal in the direction that was already laid out and which we have not deviated from..
What is that direction? Well to build a self-sustaining enterprise. Simple. To spend money we generate. To sustain profitability. To build brand loyalty and to establish the best facilities, match day experience and best Football Team on the planet Earth…Achieving two out of three in 6-years is not too bad is it?
A few words about Arsene Wenger: Where is the evidence that there is a rift between the board & him? All the various anecdotes quoted could just be him showing his discontent that he is left to carry the can alone publicly when basically he is just adhering to a plan that they ALL signed on to when the plans for the new Stadium was first made. That the construction and transition phases passed with such ease was the miracle of exceptional management by Fitzman & Co. What we are facing now is the fall-out from the lack of investment on quality short term players when the post-Invincible team did not work out according to plan…we came close didn’t we? Thinking about how close still makes me weep..
Things are not as dire as we are making out. True we probably need new management or coaching to bring in fresh ideas..Le Boss has not suddenly turned into a weak and useless idiot as some make him out to be. He is under enormous pressure from all the fucking noise we all make; all the advise about which player, which tactic, which this & which that…we boo the players when they make simple mistakes and we rant & rave (myself included) when their confidence get shot to pieces and they lose…This is where we are today folks..
Meanwhile Ivan & his team have to carry on running the Emirates. Keep the toilets flushing or there will be hell to pay at the next home game..Le Boss is out there today on the Training pitch trying to uplift the fragile confidence of poor Ox…Steve Bould is thinking about the next game too..Liam Brady is thinking who he can afford to give another chance to make it at the club and which of a marvelous bunch of 1st year graduates he will offer terms…..Its a horrible job, but someone has to do it!
@ N7
I said the argument against Usmanov seems based in the prehistoric etc views. I maintain that whether he is a crook or not is difficult to know. I’m trying to be objective in that regard. Also stating you don’t want crooks anywhere near the club whilst ideological sound is not reality. When people are free to buy and sell shares you are the mercy of the market. God rest his soul but Danny Fizman was in the diamond business if I’m correct. Having a commodities business of ny own I know how cut throat and shark infested the precious mineral waters are. Im sure if you were to dig there would be things you may find in his past or business dealings that wouldn’t be viewed with pleasure. The bigger the business usually the bigger the shark. Be them eastern European, Asian or American. Foods sake even zuckerberg completely fucked people over to get to where he is today (if you believe the film and real life cash settlements)
@ Andy,
I don’t profess to know enough about Usmanov to make a reasoned judgement. Do you? Honestly? I maintain that he is a major shareholder and didnt steal or extort those to the best of my knowledge. I assume he bought them. From people willing to sell. I’m not promoting his cause, merely offering a different point of view. Or should I not consider another point of view? I guess assumed decency in business is only reserved for those who come from non corrupt regimes like America or those that marry into wealthy (bootlegger) families.
Once again for the cheap seats. I am willing to listen to ANYONE that had something sensible to say. Even Usmanov.
GT,
To build brand loyalty and to establish the best facilities, match day experience and best Football Team on the planet Earth…Achieving two out of three in 6-years is not too bad is it
————————————————————————–
What is the evidence of brand loyaly? We have not a quarter of ManU’s total number of sponsors. Despite having Tom Fox and the other guy (can’t remember his name, sorry), we have only done 3 deals in nearly 2 years. If we are big brand, why can’t we have a training kit deal like them giveng that we are tiied to the match day kit till 2014? What you mean by best match day experience. Does it mean paying the highest prices in world and sitting in a quiet stadium without atmosphere. It may be best for the board though as they walk away with 3 million every home game
You said, self sustaing empire by spending what we make then why the profit is not spent on quality replacements for out going players and why we end up scraping bargain basement on last days of transfer windows? Given the property debt are paid and only 15M/year to pay as fixed mortgage, why there is money in the bank (look at last financial report and watch out for new one next week).
Wenger has not suddenly turned out to be weak but if you read my post above, there are similar mistake every year, there is same mid Feb/March implosion every year, there are same worst record from set pieces every year, why he has not learnt from that and done something about it
north bank 1
There is no comparison between Usmanov and Danny Fiszman.
You know exactly what people are talking about re: Usmanov. It’s not stuff I’m going to repeat here as I don’t want to cause any bother for our host, but it’s out there and we’ve all seen it (if we’ve bothered to look).
It’s not stuff that is equivalent to having worked in the diamond industry.
You’re perfectly correct that anyone might prove to have a skeleton or two in their closet. But the point is that we’ve seen Usmanov’s skeletons and we don’t like the look of them.
To extend your argument, you might as well employ Fred West as a babysitter because, after all, any babysitter you hire might turn out to be a horrible fucker.
Can I object to Usmanov on the grounds that he looks like the sweaty father of Comic Book Guy?
@351: Worst. Comment. Ever. 🙂
@ tabs,
An apologist for criminality??? Ill gotten gains??? Are you a copper by any chance. Haha. Here we go again. Based on what? What article have read now to reinforce that view?? And as for ignoring the other fans concerns I’ve had discussion with holic and Lars on this before with no issue.
And because I don’t sing the same song you wish me nowhere near the club? How very liberal of you. I told you yesterday to loosen that bra, you obviously didn’t listen.
Unbelievable.
Heh Cannons.
He’s scottish – well, well
Wanger Out NoW! out!
NB1 ,
To take each of your points in turn .
Presumably there was no problem in previous discussions because you didn’t describe them as “Daily Mail ” writers . That is when the discussion became “personal” , and not merely an exchange of views .
Today you carry on , and despite being told on at least 2 occasions that I held no truck with that particular publication , you carried on presumably to provoke some sort of response . This morning I was described as proof that the “little britain ” attitude was alive and kicking .
And now you come over all “sanctimonious” , it wasn’t me Guv . Dear Oh Dear .
As regards where I read this stuff I refer you to N7’s above response @350 .
I am not a policeman .
And if you wish to excuse or ignore criminality for purely pragmatic objective you are by definition an apologist for it .
I see no point in continuing with this . The last word appears important to you , so the floor is yours . No more replies from me . Your posts speak for themselves .
Loosen my bra ? Not for you Sweet Cheeks .
wittyzed: You make a lot of good points. You ask a lot of good questions. But among your good comments you throw in some brickbats that make you out to be either deliberately misleading or ignorant of the facts:
1. You are confusing Brand Loyalty with Sponsorship: They are different. Brand loyalty is what we are building when we tour China and the far East last Summer, and when we’ll be touring India & Africa this coming closed season. I read recently that Arsenal has one of the largest global brand loyalties in the game – only behind the three usual suspects of Real, Barca & Man U.
2. We shouldn’t have to keep going over why is was prudent to have Emirates Airlines & Nike GIVE us cash in hand to help with stadium construction instead of paying extortionate interest rates in a volatile market. Either you take the money up front or you pay compounding interest by borrowing…have you even heard of the havoc raging in the world’s economy for the past 6-years? Did you even know that America nearly went under as a result? I think that even tho Liverpool & Chelsea have done really great shirt deals in the past 2-years..I want you to ask both how their plans for building new stadiums are coming along…go on I would love to hear their responses..
3. Nobody can refute your questions (Rhetoric)..True observations everyone. Those are the things that we are most pained about. I happen to agree with you on some of those things. Following your invitation I did leave a message on feedback@arsenal.co.uk…I vented my spleen…but I stopped short of sarcasms, finger pointing and stuck rigidly to what I hoped were constructive discussion points….But to take things in their proper perspective we are at least better off than all the teams below us in the League. We also stand alone when it comes to managing our debts…We have some of the most outstanding young players in world football coming through…Isn’t that a great foundation to build a future on?
4. I don’t believe in the ‘Evil Board pocketing all our hard-earned season ticket revenue’ conspiracy theory. I have learned to read a balance sheet – its tedious but I believe that all true Gooners should learn that skill..it will save us a lot of hand-wringing and stress when all the wild speculation starts up after each set back..
TABs: I still appreciate you Bro…(0;
Dr Zee: Where is Feelgood today? TABs and I need a little pick me up…hint, hint..
Go on tabs get ur guns out!
Sorry Chaps 🙂
GT @ 209, heh! How much percent are we talking, 10 to 15%? May have to cut tabs in, mentored me and all 😉
And @ 221, thanks, was hoping someone would notice 🙂
Doctor Faustus @ 222, still a joy to read since your first foray into this bar 🙂
‘Holic @ 226, I could never stop supporting The Arsenal with its honest values and hard-working ethics that attracted me to the club that does things the right way, but a oil-infused Arsenal? Well, I’d have to take a light back-seat for a while as a supporter I think.
@246, tabs is going on about what I mean exactly, I’d feel a bit ‘hollow’, you know?
Snir @ 292, one of the interesting drinks I’ve seen in the case of Xabi/(Xavi?) Alonso because even if Wenger is a frugal man, I’d expect him to stump out 500k more needed for such a player, him not doing it seemed irrational to me at the time, but the board obstructing Wenger, a tactical genius in his own right (although admittedly not as of late) in the acquisition seems far more logical than him simply passing on the purchase.
@ 298, I didn’t know Alonso thought it was going to be a sure-thing at that stage. Wenger has to be moving with one proverbial hand behind his back, no doubt.
But still, nice assist for GT @ 300 🙂
TS @ 322, well said.
Andy Goram @ 335, 😀
tabs @ 357, now that’s a mentor! (Not the loosening of said bra, the eloquence of the response :))
GT @ 359, very good point #3 *thumbs up*
No need to be sorry mate..
364 was directed at TABs..
Hurricane: Don’t worry I won’t charge you more than Darren Dein. And TABs will draw up the paperwork and be our lawyer…ops! I hope that I haven’t let the cat out of the bag – I know that all sorts of people read Goonerholic..
Cheers Wind . I’m liking the sound of this 10 to 15% malarkey . 😉
GT – Cheers mate . Got a little distracted . Marvellous stuff @347 and @358 .
I would like to make it a matter of public record that I have never written for The Daily ‘hate’ Mail or Rupert ‘the bare-faced liar’ Murdoch – as a matter of principle. The principle, of course, being that neither one has offered me enough cold, hard cash – or indeed any other type of inducement. But in the words of St. Joan Armatrading “I’m open to persuasion”. if yous need to reach me, my phone can be hacked at the usual number
Up The Arse!
367, 😆
GT & tabs, you can thank my youth (and my kind heart of course 8))
When we get to the meeting with Mr Wenger, we can negotiate 😉
I’m utterly baffled that Godwin’s law has not been invoked yet.
GT, thank you for your thoughts
1. You are confusing Brand Loyalty with Sponsorship: They are different. Brand loyalty is what we are building when we tour China and the far East last Summer, and when we’ll be touring India & Africa this coming closed season. I read recently that Arsenal has one of the largest global brand loyalties in the game – only behind the three usual suspects of Real, Barca & Man U.
——————————————————————————–
Valid argument however my point was that these brand loyalties mean nothing if these don’t translate in to increased commercial revenues. May be out of place in this context, I will give you example of Apple. Apple customers are brand loyal and it has resulted in making them the most valuable company in the world. The commercial revenues of these usual suspcects you mentioned along with host of other clubs, are gigantic compared to ours. Due to Mr Wenger’s stubborness, we did not visit outside Austria/Europe when we had world stars on our books. His argument was it makes players tired for the championship. Well it did not stop, ManU and Chelsea winning the league and other competitions repeatedly. We could have built a better global brand if we had started visiting when we had Henry, Viera, Bobby and Cesc in our team. Any way, no point crying over spilt milk now
2. We shouldn’t have to keep going over why is was prudent to have Emirates Airlines & Nike GIVE us cash in hand to help with stadium construction instead of paying extortionate interest rates in a volatile market. Either you take the money up front or you pay compounding interest by borrowing…have you even heard of the havoc raging in the world’s economy for the past 6-years? Did you even know that America nearly went under as a result? I think that even tho Liverpool & Chelsea have done really great shirt deals in the past 2-years..I want you to ask both how their plans for building new stadiums are coming along…go on I would love to hear their responses
——————————————————————————–
I fully understand there our tie up with Nike etc was there for a reason and I am not criticizing club for that. My point was once the property debt has been paid, it has generated some profit now (not a huge one but still not a loss), Queensland road property is likely to fetch further profit, and only debt we have is long running one which is 15-16 M/year, the profit generated by the players sales should be spent on bringing replacements. Wage bill should be trimmed by cutting dead wood. by getting rid of players who hardly play e.g. Chamakh, Park, Diaby, Almunia etc. high performers should be rewarded while mediocre players should be shown the door. I did not ask for taking money from sugar daddies or loans from banks but just the money generated from players sales should be used. If you carefully read the last report, there is TPF and there is money in the bank on top of mandatory holding as per terms of our creditors.
Re Liverpool and Chelsea have not moved not because of credit issues, it is because of finding appropriate places for their stadium.
Yes I am fully aware of financial crises and I am also aware of Tottenham doing double kit deal, Barcelona and Liverpool doing deals in excess of 25 M/year and others.
3. Unfortunately, I can’t find any new reasons for this debacle, whether rehotoric or not, these are my observations and I am saying for last 4 years. If others have similar observations, there is nothing I can do to change their mind. Like others e.g LeGrove and Wenger out Brigade, I am not jumping on to the band wagon, I am just asking for problems to be identified and rectified. I hope it’s not too much to ask
4. Yes, I have read reports in detail. If 606 would have been still open, I could have shown you my analysis on these reports.
Listen young “Wenger Out” – what kind of name is that anyway? – you would never get a job at any of my publications so dream on…and I absolutely refute any suggestion that we routinely hack into people’s private telephone conversations. Please desist from making these scandalous claims or else I will make you the subject of my next headline in the Sun…do you understand what I am getting at?
Hey Holic, As usual can’t disagree with what you say…now, a common theme in the drinks, which interests me the most, is that of tactics. Well, what do you think?
Rupert good one!
I think that who is the owner, who is the CEO is largely irrelevant to the results on the pitch and for the record it was reported on Sky (all right, yes I know Sky!) that Stan attends all of the board meetings and a large number of games.
The erratic results on the pitch may well be because some of the simple truths of the games are either ignored or misunderstood by the players. It was said long ago that if the opposition have 5 in midfield, you make sure you have 5 in midfield. We persist with 3 in midfield and as a result get overrun. OK it should become 5 when the 2 wide players drop back but the personnel we have playing wide are not good at that aspect of the game.
What baffles me is how teams like the one down the road from where I live continually make the team add up to more than the sum of its parts, whereas we seem to do the opposite. A bit like getting a quart out of a pint pot. I don’t think there is one single Norwich City player we would say, we want in an Arsenal shirt, but they keep getting results against the expectations of the footballing public. I don’t think they’ll ever make the top four and I’m not saying that the kind of results that Norwich have been getting would satisfy us as Arsenal fans but it illustrates a point. If you like, we seem to under perform too often but Norwich almost always over perform and it is this that I find so frustrating (er us not Norwich).
I hope that recent happenings cause the team and the management to look again at how they approach and prepare for games. Not everyone can be skilful and gifted but everyone can be disciplined, well organised and hard working beneath the umbrella of a sound tactical plan.
A reader!
ND @375 Yes. Agree. What if the back four were trained NOT to rely on passing the ball back to our goalie and stop with all these sideway passes. They must learn to run the gauntlet. Midfield has been guilty of the same. In the meantime, Robin and Gervinho are going to have to get the ball themselves if thet want to score. The OX, godbless him is doing everything right. You know, I’m more impressed with him after that own goal. He was doing the job of a defender, as well. OX, you’re legal age son, this drink is for you.
Hugs all around??
“We love you tabs”
“I love you guys too”
Do me favour.
Til the next time ladies…
AG@369: Godwin’s law? Don’t even go there — though the law says we shall get there in the end…
NB1 @377 –
nice one.
NB1 thinks – “shit, they won’t agree with me however many times I keep saying the same thing. What can I do now then ?
I know. I’ll call them all a stupid name – like ‘ladies’ – and run for it”.
Hopefully you have. Then maybe we can have a bit more reasoned discussion, rather than getting all obsessed with making people admit they’re whatever YOU say they are.
Bye, love.
NBN. One of him was already too much.
Does that count?
ND@374 & everyone in the bar: clearly time for some existentialism. Here is the t-shirt for you all, http://www.philosophyfootball.com/product_images/pimg3b60346cc5cc8_front
Ollie, Camus for you, my boy: http://www.philosophyfootball.com/view_item.php?pid=169
One of my favourite goalkeepers ever indeed, NBN 🙂
http://www.philosophyfootball.com/new_win.html
heh
Promising career cut short by TB when a teenager. But football’s loss was absurdism’s gain. And philosophy would never have to release him for ACNs.
Sorry, wasn’t the intended link.
heh, beautifully put Ned
My favorite Camus quote is, It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners. Not a bad credo to live by.
Time for the absurdity that is work….
One for the road for anyone in the bar.
The Scene : D L Ltd – Operations Room
Professor Storey is sitting at the large desk, recently vacated by Dr Feelgood. Dr Disorder’s feet protrude from under the table where he is sleeping off the effects of his latest bombing run, and Wolfgang Smallballs sits in the far corner of the room, engrossed in a glossy magazine.
Edwin : “It’s bloody quiet around here. Feelgood made plenty of noise, even if most of it didn’t make sense. What’s that your reading, Wolfman?”
Wolfie doesn’t answer so Edwin steps closer and realises that Smallballs has pulled one fom the top shelf.
Edwin : “The Daily Male, eh?”
I’ve been reading this blog ever since inception when the posts attracted only one or two comments. Back then it was refreshing to read the writing of a guy who clearly loves the club, a gooner-holic, addicted to Arsenal.
Fast-forward 5 years and the analogy of a local pub is perfect. You have your landlord and your regulars. The regulars have their opinions which they espouse every time they’re drinking in the bar. They’re generally very similar opinions; that’s why the regulars feel so comfortable congregating together. They end up re-inforcing each other’s views almost daily.
Every now and again a non-regular or newcomer comes into the bar. Instinctively the regulars wonder who he is and why he’s there. If he ingratiates himself with the regulars by agreeing with everything they say he’ll be welcomed and maybe someone might even buy him a drink. But God forbid he might disagree with their views and start challenging them. The wagons circle. He gets ganged up on. He defends his views but eventually gets shouted down. The landlord lets it go on, although the newcomer is made to feel that really, he might be better off if he goes and drinks somewhere else. Usually he leaves, and the locals all slap each other on the back and buy each other drinks, the landlord looking on with a smile. All safe again. Occasionally the argument gets more heated, at which the landlord will subtly threaten the newcomer by referring to him as ‘old son’. This is one step before ejection.
North Bank 1 had the temerity to challenge the house view and then to defend him/herself robustly. Eventually he/she was made to feel uncomfortable enough to leave. The locals all slapped each other on the back. Safe again now.
It’s interesting to go back to the posts of 5 years ago, before the landlord became part of the Arsenal bloggerati, before he was deigned to join the Arsecast, to be invited to visit the medical facilities and be published on the club website, before his group of regulars developed, both online and at a certain pub near the ground. Posts written with refreshing passion. I used to love it; it became my favourite site. I miss that site.
No doubt I will have the locals tell me to go and drink somewhere else. It might be ‘the smart one’ that all bars have, the one that can write long, witty posts and has become mates with the landlord, or maybe some of those who look up to him and hang on to his every word.
And sadly, I think I shall.
Just watched the Milan game after being at the match i didn’t realise how poor the whole pitch was not just the sides after being up in the San Siro clouds really hard for our style of football that’s for sure ball travelled so slow also. Not making excuses but I fancy us to get a few on a fast surface like ours and if we get a couple of early ones then you never know as this is no great Milan team and they may shit themselves
Arsenal fans meeting together in a real pub near the ground.
What a clique…..
Sorry Trev for not respectfully directing my “frustration” away from a true gooner and a good bloke. Obviously this is the only place they exist.
Sweet cheeks/ ladies….all a bit of harmless banter to end an exchange of views.
But obviously its only one way. I can take a bit of mud slinging Trev. sure tabs can too. Needless to say, get out of his arse.
Funny you think I’m trying to get you all to agree with me. that’s holic job and he does it very well. I just offered a different pov. your free to disagree with me and offer reasoned arguments. failing that you can use the same arguments about criminality.
time to wake up gentlemen. the big bad wolf is a shareholder and as a club we need to address that. ignoring him will not make him go away. that’s all I’m saying.
but one thing tabs and I do agree on is that this is now pointless. so to that end this is the end of discussion from over here.
@ NYGooner,
Interesting observation. Never looked at it like that, but i think you may be on to something.
Til next time ladies….
Z, god forbid people get to know one another…
I am still seeing posts written with refreshing passion.
Weird, innit?
Now, talking of refreshments…. 😉
I find “F5” works Ollie 😉
GT@347, “things are not as dire as everyone’s making them out to be”. But exactly.
Crosses
Assist?
Scissors Kick.
Bang.
Completely forgot that Wiltord was still playing football.
Oliva lurking again.
You owe it all to the French lad.
Kicking thing air, Dr Z?
Miscued, lurky, but it trickled in and they all count.
Your name is on the scoresheet.
thin, not thing
http://www.francefootball.fr/#!/news/2012/02/20/201628_les-montpellierains-ont-eu-la-prime-de-victoire.html
Jaysus, he doesn’t look good most of the time, but they really picked a ‘orrible photo.
Well in, Lurky.
Just a quick drink.
I was trying to assist, honestly, but a born-nature-striker blood runs this veins.
Interesting debate here, anyway. More interesting than our previous matches. I have my opinion about Usmanov, certainly, but my job here is lurking, being Arsenal supporter and scoring goals for fun. I do my job, and I do it for free.
Is Walcott doing his job? Jogging around.
Is Gazidis doing his job? Skiing around
Is Kroenke doing his job? What is Kroenke’s job anyway?
Now off to lurk as usuall.
NYG@391: whether you go or stay should be your choice, not the bar’s.
NYG @ 391, I don’t know what to say to that.
Especially since I only started lurking around here last year in August (For my job description, see Lurky’s 408) And well in Lurky with Ollie’s assist 🙂
All I can say is, no-one likes to see their friends and pals insulted, especially a group so tightly knit as the ‘Holics. We have our disagreements between ourselves, and its not always rosy, but this is a collection of people who all love the Arsenal to varying degrees and I would hope all want the club to do well.
Even nb1’s debate stems from him/her wanting the club to do well, the argument is a difference in opinion of how the club should go about it.
I’d like to hear more about the change in this bar over the years, but if you decide to leave, it would be a shame for someone relatively new like me.
Just went on Twitter, but shouldn’t have. Everyone are getting their knickers in a twist about things everybody already knew. Oh, we have money after selling Cesc and Nasri? Whooaa, I could never have guessed that! What, will we make less money if we fail to qualify for the CL? Bloody hell, next you’ll be telling me we haven’t won a trophy since 2005!
New York Gooner
I read all the postings on here,and i don’t believe anyone has been forced off this site because they had a diff point of view to the majority.
I remember reading your postings on a regular basis and whilst i may not have agreed with you,i had no issue with your right to say it.
The fact that you may have copped a bit of flak along the way,shouldn’t have deterred you from continuing.
I think it makes the Bar a much more enjoyable place when you have so many passionate followers of the Arse,all expressing many diff points of view.
I myself have been a right smart arse to some in this bar,but that hasn’t put them off,to the contrary,they just fucking ignore me.!!
As for citing Tabs handbag spat with NB1 as an example of someone being hammered because of a diff point of view,as far as i am concerned,that is just 2 blokes defending their opinions with a passion.
I for one would welcome your views from afar,as we don’t have enough postings from a ‘ Distance ‘.The more the merrier i say.
So keep on posting New York,you are welcome here,even if you think you are not.
Cheers
The Sweeper.
Indeed Ned.
You may have a point NYG. It seems to be the nature of all blogs from what I have seen.
If I may be permitted to point out there are blogs that will not allow differing views to be aired. I welcome them here as long as over the top personal abuse of Arsenal staff or fellow drinkers doesn’t occur.
Civil disagreement takes place here as well as the mutual back-slapping you refer to.
You have made your point with civility as well and I welcome that. I hope you reconsider your decision to leave. I’m certainly not forcing you out.
I can’t resist.
NYG I understand what you want to say. I am not one of the regulars here, just lurking around as you do, But in this bar, there is a compact common opinion about what is right, and what is not, for our club.
Self-sustaining model, support for Wenger, project youth, to name some of the principles that are welcomed here by Holic and the regulars. And I respect that, that is why I am here and not at Le Grove or whatever of the 1000 Anti-Wenger-Anti-youth- MoreMoneyForTransfers blogs.
NB1, has a point or two of course in his post. But not here, mate, go some other place, let us live with our ideal Arsenal.
Evening all. Oh my. What a series of exchanges has taken place in the last hours.
I’m not going to wade in on anyone’s side on this one, as drinkers on here are more than capable of making their own points.
But what I will say is the following:
1) NB1 and NYGooner – this is generally a place of sanity, serenity and smart (and usually fucking hilarious) debate among a lot of torrid nonsense in the rest of the blogosphere. For that I thank it. And I am sure the regulars and the Guvnor would not like to think of it as a ‘clique’. If this is a spot you do not regularly visit, I urge you to do so more often because this place is all the better for well argued, differing points of view.
2) I happen to have the benefit, and the privilege, of knowing many of the regulars here outside this bar. Thus far I have not met a single one who does not at heart truly love this club and want it to do well.
3) We all say stuff via blogs and on forums in a way that is very different from the way we would say things face to face.
4) There is, and always will be, far more that unites us than divides us.
5) I really fucking hate Spurs with every fibre of my being, and I’d rather beat on one of them than on one of my own. And on Tony Pulis. And on crappy pompous ManU/Shitteh/Chel$ki ‘fans’. Shit, there’s so much utter, vile, craven monstrous bollocks in football, that we do not need to waste words pissing off our own comrades.
That is all.
Oh, apart from a mahousive round of whatever the fuck anyone fancies. On Lars’ tab 😉
Of course, I didn’t mean to go some other place as an order or to insult you, it is lost in translation by my brain cells, from macedonian to english as usuall:). No offence, and sorry for the grammar and stuff all of you.
Excellently put, snowy!
Lars, I’m mostly avoiding twitter these days.
Ollie @ 417 – 😉
But if you’re avoiding Twitter, how do you get your daily #FrimmyFacts?
🙂
Well, er, um… some hackles have been raised over the past day or so…
I’m not quite sure what to make of it all. Having found myself, at times, on the outs with other Regulars (if I can be so presumptuous as to consider myself a Regular) – I can say fair play to NewYorkGooner (as a Cowboys fan, there is no way I will abbreviate his moniker to NY*). I do think he raised some salient points – and should not be dismissed outright.
However, I have experienced enough of the open-mindedness of all the “patrons” and “contributors” to know that slights are quickly forgotten and hatchets readily and non-injuriously buried. All it takes is a mea culpa. Who will take the first step?
We should all debate fiercely and civilly. Sometimes civility gets overlooked as passions are stoked. Let’s not get to the point where ultimatums are exchanged and folks (trolls excepted) are made to feel unwelcome…I really don’t think that is the atmosphere intended or cultivated by the barkeep.
As far as folks getting together before or after a game, or for the ‘Holic gaining access to the Arsenal “ether;” I say fair play on both counts. Although this blog began as a labor of love, there’s no reason it shouldn’t provide him with wondrous financial and influential benefits. Indeed, as long as the Guv is not “assimilated,” I think it would be beneficial for a “more-or-less common supporter” to have access to and an opportunity to influence the club.
On the final point, I admit my bias…one of these days I intend to meet the crew at the Tollie for a glass of London Pride.
Remember the Alamo / BMBD!
Don’t think they do London Pride there, Lonestar.
Not the beer anyway 😉
Speckled Hen, then Ollie?
Man cannot live on Guinness alone… I’ve tried 😀
Remember the Alamo/BMBD.
Nice one LG.
I have to say the financial gain thing is a bit of a chuckle. Although I still carry the Arsenal advertising the coding hasn’t worked at their end for months so I don’t make a penny out of it.
Income was never the intention of this blog, although I am hoping to tie up a deal that will hopefully cover my hosting costs in the coming weeks with an Arsenal partner.
I may have some access to the club but certainly no influence other than being one of many barometers they view to guage the mood out there, I believe.
That’s how it should be. I speak for nobody but myself, and I certainly don’t claim to represent the views of the large numbers who visit here daily, because the whole gamut of feeling are looking in for one reason or another.
Why do I do it? I just want to contribute to the debate, I guess? I like writing and I like Arsenal. Seems a pretty good marriage to me.
Clive, Snowy, Lonestar – agreed. Thanks, saved me saying similar.
Hello Lars. I’m still trying to get my head round the fact that if we don’t qualify for the Champions League we may struggle to conform to FFP.
Let me get this straight. If we don’t meet FFP they won’t let us play in a competition we haven’t qualified for?
newyork gooner
You have a point this is the welcome I got on this friendly site
Me = andy first comment
Typical, 10 weeks into the close season, Diaby has an operation that will take 10 weeks to heal.
When did he get this injury?
First ever reply.
130 Ollie
andy, 113, I see you’re not a regular here.
You probably weren’t a regular at reading classes (or was that maths?), or you would have read/computed that he didn’t have the operation this week.
Don’t worry about it mate, stick to your principles.
Lurky,
You are making the effort with your English and you won’t get better unless we welcome you.
However you will have worked out by now that the first time you say anything I don’t agree with you will be forcibly removed 😉
Thank you Clive.
And of course thank you to good man Snowy. Coming for an end of season drink on Sunday? 😉
Ollie, best avoid Twitter tonight. Seems some good people got caught in a cycle of depression over news that should have come as no surprise to anybody.
I’m trying to find the words for a piece tomorrow, but it is difficult to work through the conflicting forces of reason right now.
Wind, I wish you wouldn’t call us tight. We are the least tight group of drinkers I have spent time with 😉
Are you dribbling all the way to 500 holic? 😀
Dribbling?
You’ve seen me drinking then? 😉
Har, har!
BMBD.
New York Gooner – I’m not gonna get into a 60 paragraph post about how welcoming this bar is or not, but I’ll just say this.
Steve T is one of the most “controversial” figures in this bar (if you could call him that). More often than not, his views do not coincide with the general opinion and more often than not you will see the sentence “let’s agree to disagree” from his moniker.
Yet, he is one of the regulars, and a loved one as well. If one wants to be extremely critical I can attest to not having the same opinion or getting into countless debates/arguments here and I keep coming back for more.
No one is driving anybody away, don’t worry.
I do though hate New York. So if you were just a New Yorker I would have driven you away 😀
Heh. Hope to soon, holic.
Wonder if Ollie will blank me again?
Maybe I should bring Andy with me 😀 😀 😀
Anybody in the bar here how the meeting with the AST went? snir can’t believe you don’t like NYC..
So Mr Holic does NewYorkGooner have a point?
I have pasted my evidence @ 425 you ignored the abuse I received in June last year and you ignore it again now.
Does ollie have some hold over you that he can be rude and abusive to first time posters.
I mearly asked politely if Diaby should have had an operation sooner and I was asked if I was shall we say a ret , cannot read or write?
I love your blog and I agree with your die hard support of the mighty Arsenal. BUT!! it is a bit of a closed shop isn’t it?
So, it would appear more and more likely that the cash surplus is earmarked to plug the financial hole caused by the potential failure to qualify for next year’s Big Cup.
Would certainly be a plausible explanation for the otherwise inexplicable lack of investment in the last two windows. Filtering out the hysteria from the various Twitter feeds (which doesn’t leave much in some cases) it seems we run at break even, ONLY if we keep pulling in the £40m that the CL brings. Profit can only be generated at current levels of cost via player trading. *gulp*
I don’t post very often but I’ve always found this site very welcoming. I don’t think it’s ‘cliquey’ here – if you argue a point with reason and without insulting fellow Gooners (and your post was excellently reasoned), then I don’t think there isn’t a problem. I hope you will stay and enjoy the debate. Cheers.
Sorry
– I don’t think there isn’t a problem
+ I don’t think there is a problem
Stupid old bugger that I am
Lurkers don’t forget the …. and I hate to say it the europa cup. brings in some decent revenue too, but it is based on attendances rather than direct finacial gain. so things are not as black and whiite as we qualify for the CL or not.
andy, look at your first post again. Your introduction is a moan about a Frenchman. No hello, no Floaters moment, “Hi I’m Andy and I’m a Leo”
Then you don’t understand why a Frenchman, no, Belgian, no, Gooner, who loves Arsenal gives you short shrift.
He hasn’t called you anything that you would only hear in a dockyard. He has reacted to a pop at a player who has had a shit run of injuries as a result of suffering a horror tackle .
Don’t be so sensitive. Consider your first contribution carefully is all I am asking.
Cunt off Fin 😉
Nothing like a little needle to spice things up!
Anyway, wonderful contributions and never a dull moment.
NYG: Nice analogy but I don’t think you could be more wide of the mark. Contributors here are top class when it comes taking all viewpoints on board. Its a platform that Holic has been keen to create and maintain. I say that as an Irishman who doesn’t get to travel over as much as he would wish and as one who has yet to meet the gang. Sure enough you might get the occasional spat, but generally all viewpoints are treated with respect and the debate is always intelligent. So please feel free to pull up a seat and have a beer.
No Holic my moan was about Arsenals medical team waiting months before they made a decision to operate on Abu. (who injured himself playing for us)
I was then told I cannot read or write, this back up completely what NYC was talking about.
I don’t agree with his views about Arsenal but he has a point about this blog.
Garsguns – Hate everything New York.
Everything. Can’t stand it.
Boston ’till the day I die.
Who is this ‘holic c**t, never liked him.
Porto (last years winners) played 17 games in the Europa League, starting on the 9th July. They earned £15m.
Man Utd earned £46m for reaching the final of Big Cup.
That’s without even considering the effect 17 extra games would have on our motley selection of glass limbed heroes.
Christ, Mannone would be in nets and Eastmond at full back before August was out.
‘Holic, I am trying my best with the language, and improving my english trough this blog. I had some teasing in the past from some of the regulars, exspecially about spelling and sentence construction, but I do not mind, trying to look on that with humour and fun.
I am maybe naive but, what I don’t understand is that new trend of obstinacy of some supporters vs the club politics. Non attending the home games, leaving black bags on their seats and stuff. You guys, do not know what you have. You have the privilege to live in London, every weekend to go to the game, see it LIVE, maybe meet some players, and most important, company a fellow gunners.
I have never been to Arsenal game EVER. And I am 33. Didn’t had a chance, and I don’t know if I ever will. Money is not an issue. We must get Visa here, to travel to England, and it is hard to get one. My only chance was when Arsenal came to Belgrade last year for CL game, but it is another country again and I didn’t manage to get tickets.
Of course, I had never ever missed an Arsenal game on TV, or stream. Not a single one. Even frendlies. I have a good work, but I make a lot of compromises in work when Arsenal play. I rearrange my life, and my wife, for the Arsenal games.
And they are not going to the games, poor ones, or boo the players. Even if you have different opinion about our owner, manager, player, go to the games, support your team, and support it loudly.
Sorry holic backs up not back up!
Perhaps Ollies right I shouldn’t support Arsenal because I cannot spell proper.
Snir, I used to be a New Yorker and I’m married to one. That doesn’t mean I like the Giants (indeed I do not) but it makes me question anybody who says they hate New York. Spend a little more time there and your opinion could change. 🙂
andy – Context is very important.
I don’t know what happened back then, but I do know Ollie, and I don’t think he would do such a thing, just for the heck of it. It might have been during a sensitive period (usually after we lose) where we get countless newbies moaning about everybody’s and their dog.
In that context you can understand why Ollie might have snapped.
Steve for me is the perfect example. Most of the times, his views are not only not the general opinion but the complete opposite and he is very welcome here.
In fact, I remember countless arguments with Steve, so much so that at one time when he agreed with me he had to write (who would’ve believed I agree with Snir!?).
Wouldn’t you know it, we’re both in this bar, and meeting up for a pint next month when I’m in London.
Don’t make something out of nothing. Really, it’s nothing, let it go mate.
I see now snir,pretty much arsenal spuds there 8)
Sorry 8ball, can’t do it.
Everywhere I go I get reminded of the Yankees, Jets, Rangers, Knicks etc.
I actually made a promise to myself (an inner vow) never to go to NY unless it’s on business/studies.
Leisure? In New York?
Only if and when the Sox win the Pennant at the Bronx.
No worries andy.
I would have taken a different inference from the wording of your post, as ollie did. It is one of the problems of comments on any blog, not just this one.
You cannot see the body language or facial expression on a post, and can only go with the feel of why it was worded the way it was.
Bite back without over the top abuse and we are all ok.
Well, I’m from New York, so that should settle everything. Snir, nothing neater then Derek Jeter.
Snir, I didn’t realise you were meeting Steve.
Watch his hooks to the body when he gets inside, He could do you some damage that way 😉
He’s a top fella. We may not agree about how to get there, but we agree totally on where we want our club to go.
How do I respond to that without sounding a crazy radical? 😉
Hello nurse,
You are a sight for sore eyes tonight. Arsenal are struggling so everybody is kicking everybody else.
Does nobody understand we are in this together?
Patient is home and sends thanks again. Struggling with the sloppy diet, but we are working out ways of making that more interesting.
I reckon we will both lose weight 😉
Snr Geoff.
From my point of view, AD 2’s ankle TR7’s knee , AR 16’s leg or E’d S’ leg is/was a problem we all needed to get sorted they all needed the best treatmentArsenal could give them
But I was told i cannot read or write and I found that insulting on a well run and rounded blog.
I just thought NYC had a point, that’s all no worries.
Lol my 456 was to ABB @454.
Holic – You forget I’m the young’un along with Wind?
I move like an agile hockey player in his prime ( 😳 )
Gday Holics club looks a real mess some of the articles coming out are readying for battle lines to be drawn,reminds me of the 1981 SpringBoks rugby tour of Newzealand and how it tore familys apart with the pro Rugby or anti Racism Row,Arsenal at Heart Always,
‘Holic,
I dropped a little note in your inbox.
BMBD
Oh, Holic, please tell her I say HELLO! Now, about tactics, son, what do we do?! Don’t worry, don’t expect a big dissertation, but a few crumbs to wet the appetite.
Good to hear news of the Management’s continue recovery, ‘Hols.
By the way, if YOU lose weight, kindly pass the diet my way…
as you will notice, I could sure use it 😀
BMBD
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9094585/Arsenals-star-player-Robin-van-Persie-is-ready-to-start-talks-about-staying-with-the-club.html
Or has RvP’s agent suggested that because of the new FFP rules you will not get a better deal at an oil enriched football club.
I hope the former, but I pray the latter too.
New York Gooner – I love New York; my 2nd favourite City after London.
Remember most of the regulars here are grumpy old Brits (me included), just say what you think and go for it.
The only ground rule is no personal abuse, the Guv’nor polices that.
The bar is all the better for lots of different perspectives.
Hello, Lonestar! Always wanted to say that. Florida oranges, Texas cactus, we play your team just for practice! Yes, I’m losing it. BTW, went to a Texas Rangers game with my NY Yankees shirt and cap on, had a blast teasing their fans. Good fun, for sure!
andy – about the FFP
Have a look at this – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9094626/Arsene-Wenger-has-only-55-million-to-spend-this-summer-to-strengthen-Arsenals-underperforming-squad.html
The paragraph at the end got my attention –
Simon Hill, the AST’s financial analyst, said: “The great irony of Financial Fair Play is Arsenal run the club as break-even and fail to qualify for the Champions League and suffer a £40 million to £50 million drop in revenue and can’t quickly lose players, they’ll be the first club to fail to meet FFP.”
That’s extremely shocking. With us being the main advocates for its introduction and all…
And thinking about it – How on earth is AW supposed to have an overhaul with only 55million???? That’s not enough to get a top player with a high transfer fee and a big wage and secure RvP on a long term contract.
And we all know it’s nigh on impossible to sell the dead wood.
Oh no, ABB – First Barca, then the Yankees…
Oh my…
Oh Snir, Yes! Here’s another shocker, I was cheering Spain on in the last World Cup…but only after the USA team was eliminated, of course. Te amo Espana, lo siento mucho!
Snir Geoff
How have the newspapers got into the internals of the Arsenal boardroom to even make you believe that we have any figure to spend?
Even our transfers are undisclosed. yet you believe it it is a fact that we have £55 million.
Also the CL brings in £30 million the article states we lose £40/£50 million yet it fails to consider that the Europa may bring in any revenue at all.
don’t believe the media.
Hey there ABB –
Everything is better (and bigger in Texas)! Next time you attend a Rangers game, let me know (I’m in Dallas) and I’ll come buy you a drink…even if you are a Yankee.
I admire Snir’s hatred of New York. The hatred has made him strong with the Dark Side 😉
BMBD!
andy – it’s not the media I believe, it’s Swiss Rambler I believe.
LG – It’s not just me, it’s every Bostonian.
That’s one thing I love about the Boston – New York rivalry, it reminds me of European hatred.
Arsenal – Spurs, Pao – Olympiacos, Partizan – Red Star etc…
I absolutely love it.
My hatred knows no boundaries 🙂
But so does my love ! 😀
First of all Snr Geuli. sorry I got you name wrong, bad eyes and assumptions etc.
Swiss Rambler is he on the board, where does your belief come from?
Eh Lonestar, Yes everything is bigger in Texas…look forward to having that drink with you. Cheers!
We don’t need to spend 55 millions. All we need is a few millions to get Jean-Pierre Meersseman and/or Bruno Demichelis so that we don’t top the injury league for the 8th year in a row. Once our top players are able to play more than half a season we won’t have to worry about squad players not being world beaters.
Knewyorkgooner is right.
This is clicky clicky site and Ollie is typeikal brit who is bully newperson wholesale
One of my earliest experiences of New York was being in a cab that nearly knocked over a pedestrian. The cabbie leaned out of the window and shouted, “Hey, lady, I don’t care if you want to kill yourself; just don’t get your blood on my paintwork”. How can you not love a city like that?
andy – Arsenal’s finances have to be exposed to the public.
He took the figures and analyzed it.
It is by far the best sports finance blog on the net.
Have a look.
By the way all, if you missed it on Twitter today, Mike Dean is the referee on Sunday, and Phil Dowd is the fourth official. The Premier Appointments cunts are throwing the kitchen sink at this one for an away win 🙁
snir geuli it’s a limited company you can move a few hundred million around.
actually it’s a group of limited companies so you can make up your own numbers.
‘Holic: it never rains but it pours. When you’re not getting the breaks, you just don’t get the breaks.
Holic – one of the linesmen is Stephen Child.
The same linesman that approved Saha’s goal last season at the Ems.
Oh my.
Referees won’t matter I’m afraid. With the midfielders clearly shot we’ll get another 30 minutes of domination before the midfield starts passing backward and/or lose balls needlessly. Can’t see Arteta and Rambo recovering enough freshness in one week. Add to that another untested combination of our decimated defense, a point would be a great result.
andy – I’m not an expert in this but do the shareholders receive the correct figures?
I am sure I saw Dowd swap shirts with Bale on Sunday. is he the spuds own personal official?
The Swiss Ramble is top-notch. It is written by someone who actually understands accounts, unlike about 99% of football journalists and 100% of football broadcast journalists. Here are all its Arsenal posts: http://swissramble.blogspot.com/search/label/Arsenal
He is also a Gooner.
Matt – Spurs’ will to dominate possession will be good for us. It would leave a lot of space for us to exploit.
Our midfielders struggle to break through a parked bus, but Spurs are anything but.
ABB @ 476 – it will be my pleasure.
NBN @ 479 – LOL. I hate NY, but I admit that is funny. They (New Yorkers) do have plenty of chutzpah…now if I could only hail a cab when I visit…
BMBD
Stuart Atwell got demoted this week. In other random news Chelsea ( the team that keeps on giving) manager AVB was quoted as saying, to paraphrase ” Arsenal can beat ACM at home”.
No need to fear the Spuds…
“To dare is to d’oh” or as Keith (Tuesday Club) put it, “Their halftime entertainment is Sesame Street.”
How can a club like that scare any one?
UTA/BMBD/Remember the Alamo/Circle the Wagons/[insert motivational cliche here]
I quite like AVB.
Shhh, don’t tell anyone, I think we can do beat ACM at home as well … and erase the 4 goal deficit.
How’s that for belief? Remember, you heard it hear first.
BMBD
SG@486: all shareholders get to see the accounts that are published every six months, as we all do as Arsenal is a publicly listed company and so has to make them public, unlike privately owned clubs like Utd, City, etc. Only the board, and anyone with a 30% stake, can get to see the detailed management accounts and the monthly figures that I am sure will be produced internally. No company makes details of things like payroll public except where required by regulatory authorities.
Snir geuli.
There is no correct figures, you can do creative accountig and allow for work in progress, materials against work in progress. invoice a few days late it all bends the rules.
NBN – I’m saying that if the shareholders get to see the accounts then I’m pretty sure the Swiss Ramble would get a chance to get his hands on them since he’s pretty well connected.
Once he gets his hands on them, he can (as opposed to others) make financial conclusions based on his professional knowledge.
LG@491: on another occasion, I was taken to lunch in Rockefeller Center. Woody Allen and Mia Farrow were at the next table. You can’t say the city doesn’t deliver. However, I’ve never had a steak in New York that can match the ones I’ve had in Dallas — for quality or quantity.
Bang!
LG, I’m with you but well, you know how it is. I’ll say this, before all our injuries, Arsenal were groovin, big time. God how I love them!
andy – Correct or not, have a look at his analysis. It makes for a great reading for all Gooners.
NBN –
If there is one thing Texans know, it is cattle.
(Sigh) at premature goal celebration.
BMBD
Andy@496: you are right. Accounts are a convention, not an absolute truth. It is the auditor’s classic caveat, all figures right except where wrong.
New York and Dallas, both have a long way to go to match the greatest city in the world 🙂
TEL-AVIV!!!! 😀
Well in – ABB!
Well in, ABB.
SG what is swiss ramble saying?
I don’t see why we are arguing/ debating.
He established that Arsenal have around 50million for transfer funds, which is what you told me not to believe (the figure the media said) so I said that I believe him and not the media.
Yes, the Big 500!!! Painful assist by Lonestar, though.
okay and I said how has he managed to penetrate the boardroom?
It is not possible to get those figures from accounts.
It may show a surplus of £55 million but that may be a deal with the banks or sponsers that we have to keep that money for a shortfall in the loan repayment rather than use it for the transfer budget.
we or indeed he is not privilaged to any facts.
andy – That’s what I said @501.
Whether it’s right or wrong or partly right is unknown.
But still even if it is totally wrong, it is worth a read as the analysis is very interesting.
snir geuli. as i said I still don’t know what you are talking about as I have no link.
Got to hit bedfordshie. Love the Gooners fight for you guys always.
andy @510
Not sure how Swiss Ramble managed to penetrate the boardroom, but I imagine he was probably walking funny for a good while after.
Sorry.
andy – http://swissramble.blogspot.com/search/label/Arsenal
ABB @ 509 – my, er, pleasure to assist.
BMBD
Great drink Lonestar @ 419 🙂
‘Holic @ 428, fair enough maestro, especially as the Lars wallet has apparently never been tightened, although this may be a Urban Myth, clarification needed 🙂
Lurky @ 447, let me say that I assume you were somewhere in the Outer London Area! 🙂
You’re one of the best striker partners I’ve had in this bar, and a pleasure to converse with you. Gooners in your situation make me appreciate what I have in being able to go down to the Emirates/The Grove anytime I wish pretty much (only 2 buses, about an hour 10 minutes) That’s why I’d never leave an Arsenal game early (unless I absolutely could help it) and I never stroll in 5 mins into the 1st half. Those types of Arsenal fans make me rage inwardly.
Snir @ 459, you know it! 😀
Ty for 464’s link as well 🙂
abb @ 470, :p
Lonestar @ 499, unlucky on the early start mate 😉
Well in nurse abb for the big 500, that versatility converting the assist/shot by LG into a goal is what the team need to find on the pitch 🙂
Wind – will I be able to buy you Ginger Ale when I come to London or are you not coming to the aforementioned games?
I can’t keep up!
*passes out, but not before going to read Snir’s link @ 464*
I once penetrated the boardroom. It was tense and exhilirating but, despite thinking me and the boardroom had something, it never worked out. Our relationship was so wooden afterwards…
I won’t be able to sup the fine Ginger Ale on offer sadly Snir, probably won’t be able to make of those three games (Milan at home, Anfield Away & Newcastle at Home) (I’m stone cold broke, don’t even know what I’m gonna have for lunch today at college, or why I’m up at 2:19 am on a school night)
If somehow through a work of God or just by a kind act or a stroke of luck, I can make any of the two home games, I’ll let you know ASAP. Would love to talk Pats with a more experienced & knowledgeable fan than myself 🙂
Pats as in Patriots?
You’re a Patriots fan? How come?
Not so similar to the Arsenal, where it was an instant conncection at first sight, but when I’m following the NFL, the team I connect the most with are the New England Patriots.
I can’t explain why, that’s just how I feel 🙂
Thanks for the compliments, Wind.
Oh my, I see the spark of kindred souls lighting up between you and Snir. 😀
LOL @ Shaft. “Penetrating the Boardroom”…just what the bar needs 😛
G’nite all.
BMBD
ROFLMAO
Just had to share this:
http://www.offthepost.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/mick-mccarthy.gif
Snir Geuli: I have been living in Boston for twelve years now — proper Boston, not the sprawling suburbia — and I love New York. 🙂
Well, not everything about New York, but many things. It still is the finest place for jazz, museum and arts in this country, some pretentious people notwithstanding, and restaurant scene is as diverse and eclectic as they come.
Many Bostonians I know — die-hard ones including friends from the good old ‘Boston Brahmin’ families — do not really mind NYC. But the sports rivalry, as you mentioned, is an entirely different thing altogether. I do not care much for American sports, so that aspect didn’t find much relevance in my worldview.
Faustus – First of all – Loved your initial comment.
Secondly, I’m sorry, but everything New York has to offer doesn’t really do it for me.
I can get anything I want in Tel-Aviv, the love of my life.
As for Bos-NY – Like I said – Pats, B’s, C’s, and Sox so I cannot stand NY, just despise everything there.
Re: SlaSh @524, Hilarious! 😀
What I watched for ninety minutes was a well organised side consisting of players with limited ability outworking an Arsenal team now looking depressingly similar to the one that fell apart at the same time last year.
=========================
I dont think there is any doubt there, the defense personnel have changed but not the tactics. The midfield needed to refreshed earlier in the season. And in Jan, Wenger should have added another LB. I still think we can beat Spuds but will the intensity fall after that game.
NYG@391: You can’t have been paying much attention if you feel that this is a place where dissenting voices are not tolerated or welcomed. You must have missed the epic debates that lasted for days & days and days..But I completely understand why you maybe confused – there are usually no personal abuse and name calling and all that fun stuff…that’s why be have forced the guv’nor to introduce Facking Feisty Friday’s [FFF] where we can steam into each other with anything: brickbats, sarky comments, wit, snide remarks or superior intellect (my personal favorite weapon)…I am currently in a joust with wittyzed a very clever bugger indeed that may well beat me up by the looks of things, but I digress…I urge you to visit more often..
As for NB1: If indeed this was what he was trying to say all along: “time to wake up gentlemen. the big bad wolf is a shareholder and as a club we need to address that. ignoring him will not make him go away. that’s all I’m saying” as per his @ 394 then why didn’t he just come out and say that?. If he had – and not resorted to cheap shots & snide remarks – he would have had a fulfilling debate and gone home happy..but that was not what he wanted…he was trying to be cute and he knows it..
Just my opinion of course..
Question: given all the talented youth down the ranks, why aren’t there full-backs coming through? Of the youngsters who have been pressed into emergency service there for the first team, Coquelin and Yennaris are midfielders and Miquel is a centre back. Not a specialist to be seen. And, as someone else in the bar mentioned a drink or two back, Sagna’s deputy, Jenkinson, was bought in. Same is true of Gibbs’s, Santos, if indeed Santos is the deputy when he returns to fitness.
Since the CMC supplies have been exhausted for the season, things are beginning to get edgy in the bar
Ops..Sorry! Rupert Murduck must have hacked my computer again…that was me @ 530 of course…
Andy: I agree about that Ollie being a right Kant! You know what he does to me? He keeps posting French stuff all the time and he knows I can’t understand French. He’s just trying to wind me up…so I just post some Russian or Japanese stuff (that I get from Google Translate) just to fuck him back up…the bastard. You gotta fight fire with fire mate…If he want to go around correcting everyone’s English and what not – then just take the time to look over your post before you click “submit comment”..that really winds him up..snigger, snigger…He facking hates that..the French git..snigger, snigger..
Dhruv: my 2-cents is that it is not that our defensive tactics are bad, or that playing 4-3-3 is wrong, it is just that we are not executing well. 4-3-3 requires a swift transition to attack once the back four gains possession from the opposition, including 30-40m balls directly forward to the advanced midfielders that bypass the first line of pressing and if possible the first bank of opposition midfielders so your wingers and forwards can get the ball in between the lines. Mertesacker was quite good at that. You also need two good full-backs who can push forward to support the wingers, including the one on the opposite side to the play so his winger can move inside to support the central striker, and the full back then can keep the opposition back four stretched wide and not let it narrow the play. As you indicate, with so many injuries, we haven’t had full backs available good enough in the attacking roles. Our midfield looks cream crackered and our two wingers haven’t been consistent enough in either in attack or defence. You need Pires/Ljungberg quality and consistency in those roles and we just haven’t had it. As a result a makeshift defense is forced into playing too many square balls in our own half, because what is in front of them isn’t breaking fast enough and isn’t creative enough to open up opportunities for incisive forward balls. And 4-3-3 demands that you retain possession.
NBN, I dont know why fullbacks are not coming through. It is a specialist position and maybe there are very few of them in Europe itself.
But on the issue of Santos vs Gibbs, I think Santos should be the obvious choice. True Gibbs has pace over Santos but overall Santos gives the side a better balance.
NBN, I will read your comment in a while, something came up.
SlaSh @ 524: Can always depend on you for a laugh mate. Brilliant! Thinking of ‘Holes’ always makes me smile too (0;
1:32 AM Jamaica time..and time to say Nighty night Holics..
Is it too soon to get our LWC songs out?
‘Holic@424: Yes, it is a bit funny that people worry about a rule that will prevent us from taking part in a competition we won’t have qualified for anyway. And besides, I don’t believe that FFP will ever be anything more than words on a paper. It will fall apart completely at the first whisper of either “right then, let’s take this to court” or “ok, we’ll just form our own European League then” from the big clubs.
“I like Arsenal’s business model. I know many would love a billionaire to come in and pump in ‘free money’ but I don’t believe that’s right for us, and I don’t believe it should be right for any club for that matter. We are set up well, we make profit, we have huge potential with a big stadium, a massive fanbase, great tradition and everything else”
Some choice words from Blogs there.
http://www.francefootball.fr/#!/news/2012/02/21/071629_que-deviens-tu-diaby.html
if anybody has a copy of today’s France Football, there’s some Diaby stuff.
Heh, I posted this link in whole ignorance of what happened above.
I have backdrunk and am extremely incredulous.
GT 534: I’ve never been as offended as that in my life.
Or something.
Sunny but cold ‘good morning’ here.
What Lars said @ 541.
Another day of back-to-back meetings 🙁
(I’d much rather be in New York) 😉
Good luck with yer day, zico
Morning ‘Holics.
Ditto Lars/zico @ #s 541 & 545 😛
Back to back meetings for you too, TS? 😉
Buenos Dias! Me llama Teresita. Ok, enough of that. Just want to say Holic’s blog attracts some of the most amazing people I’ve ever had the pleasure to come across. Some of you make me think and others make me smile. Of course you are all more then capable of succeeding to do both. Have a great day everyone.
Morning
Toooo much back drinking to contemplate!
Anyone care to point me to the important stuff (Happy Train goings on etc)??
Ta 🙂
Blimey, just trying to work out what has gone on here. Right, here goes…..
We have established that Arsenal still is 5th in the revenue figures issued by Deloittes. That we have an Uzbec investor who some believe has a tad chequered past. But that is only allegedly as his lawyers might be reading. Does that actually mean he is a victim in all of this then? What we do know is that he appears to be very wealthy and that he own 30% of the shares in Arsenal Football Club. Is he a wolf?
We know we have an owner who owns many other sports clubs. Who rarely attends games. He might be coming over this week to announce profits in the region of 50 million. But then he is back to the Boston Bay Sidewinders, or something like that.
We know that the owner has a pal called Ivan, who earns large amounts of dosh for doing stuff. We know he enjoys skiing and that about 3 times a year he has interactions with the British media. Not sure much else than that.
We know that we will lose between 40/50 million if we do not qualify for the Champions League. But the club say that we had budgeted for that if it happens. It is also stated that if we lose that income that we will then struggle to fall in line with the new financial fair play rules as we do not have that income.
All of that said we still have made 30 million profit on transfers over the last 5 years, everything has gone up in price from the match day ticket to the cost of a pint of fizzy pop. That AW apparently has 50 million plus to spend on players but no one is really sure. And above all that we have a squad that has far too much deadwood that it should have and that alone is a massive drain on resources.
We also know that a few nasty regulars gang up on those less known to the bar if they voice a difference of opinion. We know that Snir does not agree with me much but will still buy me a pint. We know that Clive favours the Kings Cross Tom above all others and that TaBs is not a copper but in fact a Daily Mail Journalist. We know that TS still allies to his Mod roots, (good man) and that Ollie gets the ‘ump occasionally, but especially when he has a ay full of meetings.
Fuck me. Confused???? No wonder the average fan has absolutely no idea what is going on. Does anyone else remember the US comedy show Soap??????
I am off for a lay down. This is all too much for me……..
Today I shall mostly be painting my Wagon .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHT4QBwCicw
Steve T : 😀
Have a good kip now.
Steve T heh , fantastic summary 🙂 🙂
555???
Re: Tabs @552, We could use a few more Western musicals like that one. Never was wagon painting so fun. And never were Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin so fun before. 😀
Re: Dr. C: Front drinking is the thing now. Or as the famous American football coach George Allen used to say, “The future is front drinking.” or something like that. 😉
Re: Steve T @551: I am also confused as all hell. Not an elfin clue to be had. 🙂
Is front drinking drinking from a mug before it’s filled?
I’m all for it 8Ball . If there’s one thing this Bar lacks , it’s Wagon formation and tactics .
We need to gen up .
8ball
If it were only up to me I’d “frontdrink” every night.
Actually, thinking along those lines, it’s infinitely preferable to backdrinking. 🙂
TaBS
Let’s not adopt the tactics of other blogs:
Circle wagons and fire inwards.
Right lunchtime . Drinks for everyone , including NB1 and nyg if they want one .
I’m off . Got to go undercover to try and spot an alien .
I’ve been in loads of pubs/bars where I discovered that I didn’t like the beer, food, ambience, people, carpet, wallpaper – whatever. I”ve never felt the need or entitlement to argue either vehemently or childishly with the regular patrons or make overly dramatic leaving speeches. I didn’t say I was leaving and then flounce back in for another drink after I had apparently left. I simply went and found another pub/bar more to my liking. Really, it’s not that difficult.
Up the Arse.
Good point Mr C .
Noosa – the voice of reason .
He’s alive, back and playing soon:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/jenkinson-set-to-return-in-reserves-game
Hey gooners, Jenkinson’s playing tonight apparently…
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/jenkinson-set-to-return-in-reserves-game
Haha, Ollie, great minds think alike it seems…
I’m even more confused now. Is Jenkinson playing in two games tonight? Not bad for somebody who’s been injured all season. 😉
If it’s campy Western musical numbers you want, here’s a modest selection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Lmkm5EF5E&feature=related
bt8bbgfg @ 570, do you think he’s the new me?
SteveT@551: now that’s what I call a summary 😀 😀 😀
Drinks all round, and can someone perhaps try to sneak one in to whatever meeting zico happens to be in?
Re: Andy Goram @572. Possibly but young Jenkinson seems far too serious to measure up to your lot in other ways. 😉
Right, I have now had the chance to go through everything with a fine tooth comb. The only advice that I can think of that will both suit and be useful to everyone, without causing upset or being controversial in any way shape or form is this…. Whatever you do, Don’t eat yellow snow.
So, there you have it. Don’t anyone say I did not tell you.
Up the Gunners………
Re: Mr C and others who sound like they are working too hard. Remember the penalties for working on Mardi Gras day, which in case you didn’t check your calendars is this very day. And if your local WC is not working this could be the reason:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77pe0ciezO4
Oh, completely forgot, thank bt8.
Trev ,
You have Mail Sir .
8ball
Perhaps rather than working we could all have a game of this (see last paragraph of the usual F365 excellence).
Also rather like the ridicule of Meedja’s approach to AVB. Lest we forget, we’re not the only club that has to put up with it.
They do deserve it though! 😉
http://www.football365.com/mediawatch/7535739/The-Page-That-Can-t-Cope-With-The-Banter?utm_source=twitterfeed_Mediawatch&utm_medium=twitter
The Mail you say TaBs???????
I am so cunted with work 🙁
Steve T@551: excellent summary of the drift of the bar. Perhaps you could write one daily. It would save us all having to post and back drink. Just think of the extra meetings that would free us all up for. It might be enough to turn the economy round…
CG@579: Swedes already playing shock football: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuKva8GUwBk. Play starts about one minute I to the clip.
.con trying to justify not having yellow away kits 😉
The purists will be disappointed.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/42105/behind-the-numbers-
Steve T @580 – Fuck ! Outed ! I knew I wouldn’t get away with it forever 🙂
NBN
Yeah, saw that a while ago. I think I prefer the Swedes’ version – more random than just shooting whoever has the ball.
And funnier.
🙂
Ned , I am unable to watch that clip without collapsing into uncontrollable giggles . Thanks for posting again .
Ollie@584: so is the implication that (i) we should use gold as our change strip or (ii) we should get an invincible team that wins away from home?
Hey, Tabs, CatG, if it was good once….
That green kit …..*shudder!*
No mention of our record in that, Dr C.
NBN
I think it will actuallu get funnier every time I watch it.
*save to favourites*
What I would give for a gold kit now…
Hideous. Green used to be considered unlucky which is why so few clubs play in it.
Happy Tossers Day everybody 😉
Hey, AG, just squeeze your lemon and be happy.
They just won’t accept we do NOT like a blue second kit!
Plays one-two….
Is this it?
Leaps full length to head it in
hehe, well in bathgooner….I’m off to bed now to dream of victory and a world without kits the colour of envy…
Gets up from diving header, covered in mud but triumphant, “The Milky Bars are all on me….”
oh all right then Guinesses
and green kits are just crap….. much like sky blue.
gold is fine if it cannot be yellow.
Well in, BG. Nice assist, CoR. We don’t get too many 600s.
Saw us win up at The Old Toilet in that Green kit . Didn’t mind it actually .
In the picture John Hawley . Dreadful player but what a ‘tache , John Devine guitar plucking seducer of Miss Ireland , but who is the third ? Is it the late Paul Vaessen ?
Who are ye?
That was to the previous me.
Well in Bath !! Superb stuff , all a bit John Radford ! 🙂
CoR/baff, now that was a lovely goal!
And Chippy buries a 30 yarder into the top corner and then moons at Red action 🙂 Ohhh
TaBS
I was thinking the same about the third player. Anyone?
Hawley looks like Wolfie is behind him.
I didn’t mind the blue kit pictured in that article (03-04)?
But this season’s and the pin stripe one a few years ago…… tripe.
Brentford used to play in pink, claret and sky blue hoops, so be thankful for small mercies. There is a great page of oddball historic kits at http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Articles/Strange_Hues.htm, including our 1895 dark red and light blue narrow stripes with dark blue shorts and socks.
Pin-stripe was class. I got one 😉
That 2003-2004 was quite rubbish, I thought.
In fact, incredibly, we had rather shit kits how and away when we were ‘invincible’ so I don’t know why people keep complaining about kits!
Good link, NBN.
I see Bolton were ‘King of the Mountains’ before the Tour de France even existed.
Tottnum Hotspuds 1896. ‘Chocolate and Amber’…..or ‘Shit and Piss’ ?
Ollie @ 609 – Oh now you’re just rubbing salt in the wound… 😥
BMBD
For all those against Nike. Consider yourselves lucky we’re not with Adidas!
Consider these gems of RUGBY kits!!! (Stade Francais, one of the best teams in Europe).
http://rugbycullera.blogspot.com/2009/10/els-maillots-de-lstade-francais-paris.html
ooooo ducky!
http://laurenuniforms.blogspot.com/2011/04/2-pariss-rugby-uniforms.html
Have a look at some of the Arsenal socks (on the Arsenal page).
I wonder if people in 1933 complained when they got a sneak preview.
Or Bolton just got a job lot of unwanted jockeys’ silks, Ollie.
Dr C, I don’t understand people who complain about ‘Nike’ as such.
Adidas have produced some rather horrible kits of late, in football also.
Also there’s a part of me that still associates Adidas with Tapie and Marseille 😉
CoR and BathGooner, excellent assist and diving header for the 6th century!
But I have to admit. I do not like our yellow kit.
See, I’m with Ollie @ 613, the pinstripe one was class. I’d buy one still if I could 🙂
And I think that the yellow kit was part of the reason we got hammered so hard, since Barca ilast season its been kinda tarnished in my eyes to be honest.
Wearing it against Milan was a mistake, should of been the blue in my eyes, for a fresh start in Europe.
Ugly sports uniforms. How about this. Not chopped liver, would you say?
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8r5dkQzYB1qz4jelo1_400.jpg
Kendo forget link. Sorry Arsenal fans!!
Thanks Wind @623, I’m with Ollie too on the pinstripe. And agree on the all yellow look – too much like the mugsmashers. I do like our retro yellow shirts and blue shorts best as an away kit though. (Without the adidas pigeon shit effect though).
Scared to laugh Kendo 😆 :s
tabs @ 608 – is it that long since we had a striker who would dive headlong for a low header? Yes it is. Maybe we needed muddy pitches to encourage the risk taking? Or is it just about balls?
Bathgooner @ 628, yes 🙂
Only yellow one that I liked with blue was our O2 one (only one I remember! :P)
What’s your verdict on our current blue away kit?
I quite like it, was pleasantly surprised to discover that was going to be our away kit 😀
Planning to buy a Henry 12 Version of it towards the TailEnd of the season, and I don’t normally place names or numbers on my shirts/jerseys. Only Thierry’s the exception because I know he’ll always be Arsenal 🙂
I for one do not believe that we have a £50m war chest. I think AW is a very proud man and not for one second do I think he would risk 4th over sheer stubbondness either in the transfer market.
In the summer we really didnt make anything like a move to buy players until the two main deals of Cesc and Nasri were all but rubber stamped. Arteta was a last minuate dot com and Park can only be judged as a panic buy.
What else can say about a player we nothing about, he is like the New Zealand horned toad very very rarely seen but still exists. I was at the emirates to watch him in the carling cup against Bolton and he done well and finished off his goal very cooly. Bolton are a premier team so if he was ok against them why not play more often ?
One thing we could do to free up money is get rid of the dead wood clogging up the wage budget and there are a few which lets be honest are not Arsenal standard. I have my opinion who they are and im sure you will have yours.
I am very disapointed how badly the players are letting AW down. Please lads show some passion and back bone !!
Kendo, you don’t scare me. 😉
I hate meetings and I love beer – do the math, as our american friends say……
Nasri on SKY Sports shared some very enlightening thoughts re Arsene and Arsenal. Oh Sami. In other news, I see Song leaves us on Feb. 29th, how can we afford to let him go…
Wind @ 631 – go to the archives and take a look at our 1970’s yellow and blue kits. There was a nice Adidas one too from 1989 that we wore on that great night at Anfield.
I don’t think footballers should look like jockeys, therefore I think the current change kit is inappropriate. Don’t like it at all. If it has to be blue (for whatever reason) than they should reverse the old yellow with blue sleeves. I prefer the old green with blue sleeves illustrated above on a link – I think it was Ollie’s link.
Even the very old red and blue pinstripes from CG’s link – Woolwich Arsenal circa 1886 woeks better for me.
Song leaves?
Why?
To go where?
ARSENAL 1971 @ 632 – agree with every point.
ARSENAL1971 @ 632, I was there as well mate, with a friend, and I’m pretty sure we both had hoped he could start to make the bench on a regular basis but alas, it didn’t happen.
I went to the League game against Bolton where the Captain got his 99th and 100th goals, and it was a very similar side bar 1/2 players, still puzzles me that Park didn’t get a look in.
abb @ 635, Song leaves us why?
The dreaded interlull is around the corner, baff:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/international-watch-two-gunners-called-up
Not sure why they bothered putting it up with only 2, as we know that RvP, Kos, etc. etc. will likely be away on international duty too.
I had forgotten, Ollie, and glibly assumed that the flurry of needless interruptions early in the season had sufficed. Oh dear.
I hope the Netherlands see fit to wrap RvP in cotton wool if only in their own interests this summer.
Ollie, Thanks for telling the guys. Real Madrid and Moscow playing now…hope Madrid bites it, big time.
I see that TGSTWHES got clocked at 103 mph over 0.137 of a mile.
If he’d moved a bit faster without wheels under him he would have been able to control that lovely ball from Jack in the Camp Nou or at least hit it at the goal.
So Bathgooner, its not the fact that its blue, but that it is a jockeyish looking kit. Ok, I understand 🙂
And when you say reverse, d’you mean blue body and yellow sleeves?
No luck with away kits in the archives, I can only find home… :S
Wind @ 644.
Yes tho I’m not syre how blue with yellow sleeves would actually work. I think we had a blue with light blue sleeves that worked.
Here are the away kits: http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Arsenal/Arsenal-change-kits.html
The Special One taking notes already. I’m going to steal them, we can use them against Milan.
Last away kit I bought was 1999-2001. Don’t see the point of having another one actually. (Grumpy old man.)
http://yfrog.com/esmjltuj
Lads & Ladies, feast yer peepers on this!
Thanks Bath 🙂
Wind, Not bad at all, kinda like it. Take care, grasshopper.
Ahh, I see what you were on about Bath 😉
Great kit, SOO many years before my time 🙂
And GT, wherever you are! Hayley Wright is very tasty indeed 😉
Bath et al., I must admit to a soft spot for the 1895-6 home kit even if you can’t call it ‘traditional’: http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Arsenal/Arsenal.htm
Re: NBN @583: Maybe worth one laugh or two, but seven minutes worth? Maybe if Ade were one of the players and I were at the controls. 😉
Ned@583: they are actually Norwegians 🙂
Bloody funny clip in any case!
As much as I detest Christiano, can’t help but be in awe of his skills.
Preach Nurse abb, Preach.
Wind@639
Ref Park if God forbid RVP gets injured what chance dose this fella have of jumping in with little or no playing time ?
We both agree he had a decent game a hope to see more of him. If we dont see him what was the purpose of buying him as dosent he have to return for militry service at the end of next season ?
Cheers bathgooner
Interesting article in the Standard today detailing the report from the AST. Make of it what you will. I have no idea how accurate it may or may not be. Some crucial points are raised though. If we really do have 71 players on the wage bill that is the 4th highest in the league, and that JD is now on 50k a week then there alone may just be the hub of the problem.
As I said, make of it what you will.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-24037169-arsene-wenger-faces-being-left-with-just-pound-10m-to-rebuild-arsenal.do
Wind @648 – I saw this last week. Not really convinced about the broas blue bands, a thinner 0.5cm blue band would look better as a ‘highlight’, much like a training top produced 10 years or so ago.
BT8BBGFG @651 – I agree. I think it’s quite smart, though perhaps a bit too like Crystal Palace in this era.
NBN @ 583 Hilarious video
Thanks for sharing
ARSENAL1971 @ 656, I agree, we damaged our relationship with Lille to sign Park from under their noses but that sneak move isn’t paying dividends for us.
If he lit up the league, maybe the Military Service could of been delayed on exceptional talent grounds by the South Korean Government, not much chance of that happening now… 🙁
If God Forbid Van Persie was to get injured, Park would be the back up for Chamakh, another back up! Chaos would ensue indeed, I know that they are capable players, but even the best tools will rust on the bench. 😛
Bath, its changed a lot from the last one I saw, Gone is the Charcoal collar (I thought it looked pretty good) but the Blue’s also good as well, but there’s not enough white on the sleeves in my opinion.
I see where you’re going with the 0.5cm blue band, similar to the gold line we had running up and around our 2004 Home Kit if I’m correct.
Tabs –
I’m no Mail reader, but I’ll have a look very shortly. Just in from France this afternoon and about a squillion messages / appointments to sort out. 🙁
Back to you later, Cheers.
Mail’s on a different machine Tabs – not me being precious.
Wind @660 – Lille should be bloody grateful – they owe us one, I reckon, but negotiations are bound to be hazardous 😉
Trev you beast 🙂
Cheers Wind 648.
I’ll admit it does look better with every new picture.
I now prefer it to 1992-1994.
I don’t know what to make of Hazard. Talented of course but MAY turnout to be another Na$ri.
Talking of the cu*t he couldn’t resist the “Arsenal need to learn how to win ugly”, he has turned into a real armchair pundit sitting his arse on the cold Etihad stadium benches.
Never thought it could ever come to this but I want Manu to win EPL this season just so that i can laugh at his lesbian face.
COYG
666. I’ll take that. :devil:
Moscow tie Madrid, 1-1, at the last minute. You see, you just never know what can happen. Come on Arsenal, lets go for it, please.
Beastly, SlaSh.
The Scene – D L Ltd – Accounts Department
Professor Storey paces back and forth, an anxious look etched on his face. Two of his “assistants” are poring over bundles of paperwork, files are strewn on both table and floor. A laptop is switched on and on-screen is a complex looking chart, which shows downward trends mapped against “revenue” and “profit”.
Edwin : “Fuck, there must be a mistake. We have to find it. I can’t attend my first Board Meeting in charge on Sunday and then just casually mention that it’s missing. Check the files again. Check the model. Check the checks. Then check the checklist and check again.”
Assistant one : “We’ve checked it all, three times over, Professor, it’s quite clear we are nearly bankrupt.”
Assistant two : “It appears that not a single coin has changed hands in the bar for nigh on two years – everything has been charged to a fictitious credit card, and that includes err, ancillary services from the first aid cabinet.”
Edwin : “Right, get me that mad fucker on the phone right now. Time for some answers.”
Somewhere in the green and pleasant land, an iPhone rings and Dr Feelgood excuses himself from his meeting so he can answer :
Feelgood : “Edwin! How’s life on your side of the tracks (heh)? Bought your Executive briefcase yet?”
Edwin: “Right you crazy jock-strap. You need to explain where it’s gone. All those tickets, all those bums on seats and yet you leave me no money to rebuild the Happy Train. How am I supposed to compete. You said we had a sustainable model.”
Feelgood : “Ah but they changed the rules. I had to give it all away. To some hookers, up Kings Cross.”
Edwin : “Rules? What fucking rules? And I quote……”there are no rules, Edwin.”
Feelgood : “The financial foreplay rules, Edwin. Keep up.”
ABB – I don’t really care what that cubt has to say about a team he played well for 5 out of 36 months.
He can go fuck off. I hope he ends his career prematurely.
I also hope (I can’t believe I’m saying this, but yes, I hate Nasri THAT much) that United win the league and City stay trophy less!
Ollie: I was just trying to make you smile..but maybe I shudda just have steamed into Andy instead…next time mate, next time..
NED, 8thBall: Lovely musical numbers – had me on the floor (0;…I wonder what a musical about our current situation would look like…of forgot Les Miserables has been done already..
Excellent goal @ 600: Not seen one like that since Frank Stapleton against Man U back in the days when expectations were manageable….oh memories
The financial foreplay rules
For the love of Dennis, nooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Oh Zico, The lovely Roxette must have her hands full, with you. Dr. Feelgood is very naughty, me thinks.
Steve T@657: The 71 players number is probably a bit exaggerated. Well, the number is accurate I suppose, but it sounds a lot worse than it is. The first team is about half of that, and then there are the reserves and a few youth players also on professional contracts. Iirc, you MUST be on a professional contract to be eligible to play in the Premier League which pretty much every player we employ must be (would be rather pointless to have them otherwise, wouldn’t it?) even if many of them most likely won’t even make the bench any time soon.
I’m also pretty sure you’d find similar numbers at most clubs. Now, we might perhaps pay some of them a bit too much but the “71” in itself isn’t in any way a remarkable number in my eyes.
Well folks Snir has finally succumbed to the Dark Side…quick lock up the babies! He’s a coming….
“He’s a comin’ ta kill ya babies, he’s a comin’ ta kill ya babies…yee ha!”
Heh@Feelgood 🙂
@ 673
I blame Clive 😉
Jeebus H Christ Dr Zee we’re fooked…
GT: that worked. Don’t tell me you missed the ‘Or something’ that was in lieu of a smiley.
Snir, Nasri (in his own rugrat way ) was trying to pay homage, to his old boss. Agree with you about City, don’t want to see that happen.
‘Holic – did you receive mail from me? I just want to ensure I had the proper address.
Bravo, Zico. And here I thought Financial Foreplay Rules had something to do wifh golf… Those meetings today can’t have been altogether too taxing, no? 😛
BMBD
Dr Z – Usual excellence 🙂 🙂 . Surely the Financial Foreplay Rules have been coming for some time ?
Dr Feelgood @ 670, top drawer 🙂
Snir, I know exactly how you feel but even I sense the vestiges of attempted sentiment in his awkward words.
I however, don’t hate Nasri enough to wish that Yawnited take a 20th Title. I’d never hear the end of it from Plastic London Mancs.
Heh, tabs, in all the excitement they came to Feelgood quicker than the rest
Trev@663 – No worries .
Mr C @611 – Hmm the mystery of the Third Man . Think its Vaessen , but I wouldn’t be putting my house on it . And those Rugby kits , eye-popping – Wolfie perked up though 🙂
Ollie @615 heh 🙂 And with you on the 03-04 kits . Not my faves by any means . And definitely prefer Nike to adidas .
Bath@630 – It certainly seems that way doesn’t it , though I suppose Frank Stapleton and Alan Smith might have a case for a worthy mention .
Wind @631 – Now Grasshopper have a listen to your old mentor . Save your money . By next season the Wycombe kit will be a badly-remembered third kit . By the season after that it will be completely forgotten and will be considered as just another success for marketing over style . Spend your money on either the home or away kit of the seventies . Both instantly recognisable as Arsenal , both timeless classics .
Arsenal 1971 @632 – Well said .
Steve t @657 – Cheers for the link .
Lars @675 – Take your point , but I do think we have too many long-term loanees . Botelho and someone else in Spain have been out there for decades haven’t they ? 😉
Abb , Snir – Pretty indifferent to who wins the league as long as it isn’t the dirty neighbours down the road .
Heh Dr Z , I know how Feelgood feels !
Was just checking the result of the reserves fixture vs. Norwich from the Arsenal live text commentary. Sixty five minutes played, 4-0 up, two goals by Arshavin, one each by Park and returning from injury Afobe. Benayoun and Ozyakup having good games. The highlights at Arsenal player would be worth the twelve odd minutes for this one.
All these, of course, mean not that much. But I still think given a bit of chance Park can prove his usefulness as a second striker. He also has a decent free-kick and can score from outside the box.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Doctor Faustus @ 689, me and ARSENAL1971 were just discussing Park, he scored his first goal when he played with Arshavin as well, strike partners in arms.
Hopefully he can get some more League Time to show what he can do 🙂
We should hope Chelsea get a good result. apart from winning it I hope they stay in C.league longer, it is better for us in terms of 4th spot.
We should forget Podolski and the other creeps we`ve been linked to. Cavani is the way forward folks. The most stunning shoulder goal i`ve ever seen 🙂
First time i`ve seen him, but he`s carrying out a very impressive performance of goalscoring skills!
tabs: we definitely do have too many long-term loanees. Bothelo is one of them, has he even ever set foot in London? And I suppose that other guy you are thinking about is Samuel Galindo, he’s been on loan since we signed him over two years ago. He’s been in the Segunda Division and according to Wikipedia has played a grand total of 14 games in two years. Sounds like a real prospect, doesn’t he?
Lars- I just feel the scouting we had had dropped their standards or simply not watching the games they are supposed to watch. How can Newcastle sign Tiote BA and Cabaye for almost nothing while we get these youngsters who are simply not up to it.
Cavani is a striker who could do well at Arsenal, very mobile and a finisher at the highest standard
@ Rupert Murduck,
I would kindly refer you to posts 331 & 348. In between the spat with tabs I managed to actually make the point regarding Usmanov being a major shareholder and his involvement, or lack thereof in the club. I also think I make mention of the ‘very adult world of market economies and businesses that operate within’
There was some obvious mud slinging between myself and tabs. To paraphrase NYG there was a few slaps on the backs for tabs’ response @ 357 (sweet cheeks, thought that was quite funny to be fair). I was also accused of arguing Usmanov’s cause by Andy Goram, and lead to believe my views were out of touch of the majority of Arsenal fans from N7 Gooner. I was also told ‘my sort’ was not welcomed anywhere near the club, nor was the like of Usmanov.
I was even invited to join a Chelsea forum by Gooner Terry. And then finally told to run along from Trev, or find somewhere else to drink (so that reasoned debate could be had) as he rode to tabs’ rescue because I signed off with the word ladies.
Now I’m a big boy that can fight his own battles. Lord knows I threw a few punches myself. Tabs would argue maybe I threw the first punch. When you observe the discussion however, and the responses they were all pretty one way. What started as a response to Gooner Terry @ 211 (my response 219) turned into a lengthy battle between me and a ‘few’ of the regulars.
In between the sniping with tabs my initial feeling (@ 219) was that maybe some of us fans were guilty of riding the sanctimonious high horse regarding Usmanov. A horse perhaps we should get off.
Thankfully we have some adults in the AST who seem to have a better understanding of how businesses work. It was interesting to read the following regarding questions to be put to the board:
“If reduced revenues push the club into a loss making position, are there FFP issues for Arsenal’s playing cost base in 2013 and 2014? It was only during the summer of 2009 that a rights issue proposal to give the manager additional firepower in the face of increased competition was rejected by the Board as “not necessary” citing specific advice from Arsène Wenger. Would the same decision be made again and will the Board engage with the AST and other shareholders to look at other sustainable financing options, compliant with FFP, which could help Arsenal to once again compete effectively at a higher level?”
The rights issue was proposed by Usmanov.
I assume the ‘other’ shareholders they would wish the board to engage with would include Usmanov, no?
So you see, my view was not one of an apologist of criminality. It was not to promote Usmanov’s cause. It also wasn’t so that you would all agree with me.
It is a point of view that seems to be in-line with the AST and those of us not hard of thinking can actually get our head round. I wonder if there would be an apology for the apologist? Doubt it.
Let’s see what the second largest shareholder has to say rather than prancing around and pointing fingers.
Shame Chelsea are losing.
Lavezzi any good?? How much do you reckon for him and Cavani??
Me thinks only Shitty need apply.
Shame.
Hey NB1: The “>>>>>>” means there’s a new post and only back-drinkers are still here..
Are you being a nice boy? I want to read what you said above but I don’t want to fight with you…well not until Friday anyway…
Do you want to race me to 700?
GT passes to NB1 running through on goal..
I am being nice….shooting boots been left at home.
Thanks for the heads up re >>>>>>
Get in!
GO on Geoff!
..or should it be “lurking”” Geoff?