Frustration, Frustration, Frustration
Nov 10th, 2012 by 'holic
Another cooling-off period before posting. Let me say that again. Another cooling-off period before posting.
It is a testing time to be an Arsenal supporter, especially if one is inclined to seek out what passes for perspective. However today we squandered a two goal lead for the second time in under a week. After today we have won just two of five home Premiership fixtures and just two of six on the road. Over a quarter of the way into the season we are a mid-table team playing mid-table football. Statistically this is our worst start to a season for thirty years.
Supporters are at each others throats. I wish those who shout loudest at the poles of the argument would start to listen and understand each have some valid points. I have lost count of the number of times I have argued that the manager gets my vote as long as we are competitive and qualifying for Champions League football. To me those are the minimum requirements, not significant achievements with the resources now available to him. Ask me if I think we will qualify for a sixteenth consecutive Champions League campaign and I would be bound to say not without a significant investment in the squad in January.
Of course there is a degree of over-reaction. We are not a club in terminal decline. The case put forward that we are a prudently run club cannot be denied, but over-prudence is a charge equally difficult to defend. Making a profit every year, even if it achieved by selling disaffected talent, is admirable. Not reinvesting those profits in what now looks to be a fragile squad is providing ammunition for those who see the business results taking precedence over the football results.
To my untrained eye Arsene has looked unwell since returning to the club in the summer. His health won’t have been helped by Bacary Sagna going public with his concerns, with the skipper’s body language and lack of form, or with Theo’s ongoing refusal to ‘sign da ting’. For the second season running he goes into the North London derby badly needing a result. His players owe him a performance next week and if that is not forthcoming then some unpleasant questions will need to be faced.
The manager worked miracles keeping us in the top four in the years immediately following the move to the new stadium with most definitely one hand tied behind his back. Now however the property monies are in, albeit lower than anticipated due to the dip in the economy. We are in the position where we were told we would be competitive with the top clubs in Europe. Yes, the new money being lavished on a few has moved the goalposts, but as we have seen in France and Germany in recent years the richest club doesn’t always have to take the biggest prizes.
If that is a tad negative for your taste, and I know it will be for some of you, then I apologise. I’m still attempting to straddle this fence but my balance is most definitely shifting. Am I about to join ‘the walk‘ before the Swansea match? No. I cannot support their stated objective of removing a figurehead chairman, especially after the work he and his family have done over the years to keep this club in a prominent berth. I cannot support the aim of giving Red and White a seat on the board.
I will say however that the BSM have a lot of valid points and admirable aims. Rather than blindly castigate them I wish more would try to understand what motivates them. They are by and large long-standing Arsenal supporters with genuine concerns about the future of the club. If you disagree with certain of their aims and objectives, as I do, then tell them rather than roundly abuse them. More and more people are asking why we are getting less value for increased prices.
There are too many of us at each others throats right now. We have a week to rally behind a team that needs our most vocal support now, when they are fragile, far more than when things are going well.
Let’s hope things look a whole lot different this time next week.
537 Responses to “Frustration, Frustration, Frustration”
First and, to be honest, I came here to say that I have nothing worth saying and, after reading your piece ‘Holic, I have even less to say!
Well said that man.
2nd?????? Might be a tad optimistic but I will go along with it.
As usual, on a bad day, there will be conflicting views in the drinks. Please avoid using post numbers, or responding to the criminally unintelligent who will not survive the moderators chopper π
Debate with respect. We have good people on both sides of my wonky fence. Keep it civil please.
Thank you.
Almost 5am and I am still reeling from our performance. Let me repost something from the previous drink.
Being⦠Brilliant
I remember seeing today a Theo run where he started to use shoulder feints, and dribbled past 3-4 players to hit a left footed curler just wide. That was a potential gamechanging moment. Are we starting to see the Walcott we had hoped he would become when we first signed him? Yes he had always been occasionally briliant, but it is quite obvious that he is maturing his game to another level. To be honest he looked a little bit like our talisman these past few games. Can we afford to lose him now? What sort of message would that bring out?
I wouldnβt disagree so much with the view earlier this season that we will not miss Theo if he goes. But the situation is quite different now. Gervinho has flatterred to deceive, more frustrating than his rare briliance. Poldi is a different type of animal, and is playing wide left as opposed to Theo. The OX is still trying to find his feet, how long until he matures to be a top, top class EPL player? Arshavin is better on the left. So whoβs gonna replace him? Santi on the right? Or Ramsey? Gnabry is still a long term project. And who can cross the ball better from the right than Theo? Surely Giroud needs his assists. But will the board, Wenger, Kroenke, or whoever is responsible make sure he signs tha thing??
Yes, it takes two to tango, but Walcott has reiterated his will to stay at Arsenal. With his limited game time, heβs also shown us all what weβre missing with him on the bench, or worse if he plays for another team. What now? Iβm an AKB as far as I have known myself, but Wenger is paid tons of money to sort this out. And still, I truly hope he sorts this one out.
On to read the post now!
Cannot understand how we can be called prudential enterprise when our internal management is so petty and divided that a 30% owner is denied a voice at the table. that is institutional dysfunctionality.
Understandable stance Holic.
Not sure what happens in Germany and France has any relevance for the Premiership .It has never happened here ,ever.Not even once.The mega spenders always win it .
Oh,apart from Arsenal that is.3 times BTW But thing have hugely changed since we managed that.
Good post Holic, the cooling-off period helped I think π
With respect if I own 65% of an enterprise and someone who owns less than half that attempts to undermine me then there will be only one winner, and he will be on the outside looking in.
That’s about as downbeat a post as I’ve ever read from you Holic. Finally the penny is dropping. What I can’t figure out is why it’s taken you so long, I predicted all this four years ago, although, in truth, it really wasn’t all that difficult.
Loyalty is always admirable, but sometimes it can be damaging.
Yes, Arsenal do have the resources to compete. They have a massive wage bill, with more than enough resources as long as they are sensibly allocated – i.e. not paying everyone the same wage no matter their level of talent/performance. Wenger has somehow managed to make a complete hash of it, while at the same time his tactical weaknesses have slowly revealed themselves over the years almost to the point where you question how he ever achieved such success in the first place.
It’s abundantly clear that the players do not trust him, believe in him, or in some cases, even respect him. It’s all well and good saying you respect a manager, but you have to go out there and prove it.
It’s time for Wenger to leave. The board has supported him as best they can, albeit far from perfect themselves, but they need to stand on their own two feet now and bravely look to the future. Otherwise Arsenal will slip into a horrible mediocrity, as if they haven’t already, which will make in near-impossible to maximise the commercial deals that soon need to be renegotiated.
Holic, spot on. Have a pint of Arthur’s finest brew on my tab.
“we lacked urgency today” how many time did we hear this.
I thought the result was fair the penalty was harsh, but as a top side you are supposed to get the 3 points when you don’t deserve it.
Arteta should not have taken that penalty, there was an unstopabble man on the pitch and that was Giroud, his confidence was high and and a hat trick would’ve been very fitting for his performance. I felt Arteta wanted to take the pen to make amends for his mistake and that add extra pressure on him.
the positives are we are finally starting to play for Giroud, instead of faffing around the box without any pirppose today we made lots of crosses aimed at Giroud and he delivered, these tactics are useful when teams park the bus.
it is no coincendence since we lost Diaby and Gibbs things have changed so quickly for us. up to the city game we looked solid all around and now we look fragile specially in midfield and the back.
I intend to drink flagons and flagons of ale, until things improve.
Get on with it, Arsene.
I can’t agree with your statement regarding the minimum requirements with the resources available to him.
Today and not for the first time this season we played a team which on paper we should be beating, easily. Our forward line consisted of French, German, English and Spanish internationals – a line up that should create and convert chances against a team like Fulham. Our backline, also made up of international players, again makes basic mistakes and throws away a lead.
Is it a motivational issue? A tactical one?
I’m giving Wenger the benefit of doubt – there are new players in key positions which still need time to be bedded in, although it’s difficult to make that case for the defense.
As a squad we might be lacking a little in dept, compared only to the Chelseas and Citys of this world but we should be challenging them.
We can hope we’ll sign a couple of players in Jan but I doubt we will and even if we do, I doubt it’ll be enough to really have an impact on our season.
For everything Wenger as achieved with Arsenal he’s earned the right to stay in the job for as long as he wants but it’s hard to overlook the poor tactics and transfers of recent years.
double alcohol, no ice.
my biggest concern is why the team remains fragile after so many changes in personnel. After that i wonder exactly what it would take for us to change formation so we don’t appear so transparent in our passing. Pass those i ask myself who will occupy the number 14 shirt when theo leaves or if jack gets the captains armband in the summer.
really not looking forward to next week. In that sense i’m just like an arsenal board member.
Holic you deserve free drinks all night every night for a week for such a good-willed post. Your love for the Club really comes through, and it makes for truly joyful reading, even at such trying times.
Arsene told the fans during the AGM to wait and see where we are at the end of the season, and then he is open to sit down and talk with us. Arsene is a Club legend, always will be. And for all his mistakes he deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt, now more than ever.
My patience for Arsene does not, however, replicate itself towards our board. They could be a convenient scapegoat for me, but a net positive spending every year while charging the most expensive ticket, while claiming we are ambitious and want to win titles, is just not good enough. The Club is bigger than Arsene, some says. While that may be true, the board must shoulder a fair part of the blame and be held accountable. No board is bigger than the Club itself. Unless you are Chavski or Mansheikh, or PSG, or Anzhi…
This has turned into quite a ramble. But yeah, Arsene deserves our support, and the players deserve our very best cheers. Look at Arteta’s face and tell me he doesn’t care.
I need to sleep. Have a good night Holics
Undermine point view is well and good but what happens if it is the truth? The Usmanov open letter hit home many many valid points.
The current management and ownership is far too relaxed about our progress. We need some aggressive investment. Precision investment. Over the years we have been 2 or 3 players away from sustained success. A club like ours should look to always dominate. This is the aim.
This investment could come from within our reported balance. Why is this not happening? We say they are a great run business. This was true when we had a shout. Now they cannot fool the people.
I understand all the points of view.
The reason Arsene is being asked to leave by some (growing every poor result) is why is he not challenging the board for more? Ask for further investment. I think it is time to as if Arsene has the cojone to challenge the employer who pays 140K per week?
Could someone else come in who is willing to use our decent balance to bring in the infamous super quality? Maybe that takes a little courage?
Thank you for your interest in our affairs.
If Wenger handed in his resignation would anyone beg him to stay?
When people talk about potential replacements, I think it’s quite simple. Just pick your personal top 10 managers in world football, put them all in the hat & pick one….. I’d happily take which ever one comes out.
I’m not anti Arsene, and I don’t want him sacked, I just want him to realise that his methods are no longer working, & he needs to walk away whilst he still has his health & marbles in tact.
Who’s methods are working that is not spending hundreds of millions?
Very well reasoned post, ‘Holic. I can tell the difficulty you had in putting more of those more negative thoughts in typeface. Sadly, the situation at the club and the performance of the team merits such questions being asked.
We’re seeing the same horrible script being played out every year, we begin the season relatively well, followed by a rough (very) patch. Cling to the hope of reaching January in which to buy reinforcements, find a purple patch of form before the window creeps open, convince ourselves we don’t need said players, window slams shut, realities of the squad once again become apparent, rough patch returns, thoughts of winning the title are replaced by the hope we can cling on to 4th, convince ourselves that the summer will allow us to re-build and next year will be the new dawn. Rinse and repeat.
This is the reality of being an Arsenal fan these days, the match-day experience and the chance to drink and socialise with friends still exists, but the team’s potential to really challenge has long since faded.
I no longer find myself greeting Arsenal goals with the same rabid enthusiasm, I find myself all to aware that it just means another goal that will be chalked off by the opposition by barely breaking a sweat. The players change, the narrative is staying horribly the same…
Really, really good post. Very fair.
As others have said, this team doesn’t look right, but I don’t think we’re that far off.
Some solidity at left back. A specialist holding midfielder. These two things alone would make a world of difference and would have seen us take the points today.
The manager retains my full backing. He has brought me more joy than any other individual in the game, and he’s a decent, principled man who deserves the benefit of the doubt. But I agree that he looks weary, and it would not stun me if he were to call time in the next season or two.
For now, I am suspending a certain amount of judgment until the NLD. Win that and things look promising. Lose it, and we may find ourselves asking some tough questions that make even tonight’s soul searching seem like a party.
COYG, prove the doubters wrong
It’s all a bit of a mess. Players running contracts down every single year, weak minded performances a ton of well paid players either on loan or not even in the squad.
The team is no longer cohesive in attack or defence. Wenger has been around for 17yrs and personally think freshening it up with a new manager is what’s needed. Clearly they are not listening to him or he’s not telling them what to do without the ball. Either way it means a new man’s ideas should be brought in.
Wenger has done brilliantly but he’s past it now and I hate to say it. This is just another example of an absolute balls up of a performance even with experienced player like mert arteta cazorla etc. Still the same errors.
Pleasr move on Mr wenger
Wenger’s methods two seasons ago, minus the double chinned French twat, plus a certain Mikel Arteta to steady the ship a little. I reckon that would work, or at least be very close to ‘working’. Santi would also still be a welcome addition to this squad.
Sigh.
Wenger almost got it right, anyways.
Well worded ‘holic as always, a terrible result today.
For me it looks like the whole team are still stuck with the two bugs going around, perma cough and the squits from both ends!
The form of the whole team compared to the early season form is just too far off.
Depressing state of affairs being an Arsenal fan. I was pleased to see Theo back in the side today i hope before long the Ox will be on the other wing. I have questioned wengers team selection quite a bit in recent weeks but today i think it was right.
I never thought id say this but i really think Wenger has done all he can for us. I love the guy but we need fresh impetitus and ideas. Id like to see us sign Roberto Martinz from Wigan. We will keep our passing style but with fresh ideas and a new way of thinking.
Too right John.
As I walked out after the match I overheard a conversation in the shuffle to the tube that for me was spot on;
“I know 3-3 is pretty good entertainment, but all I feel is stress!”
It would be far better if we were all inside the tent pissing out.
Shame we can’t get in the tent though, due to the team all being in there taking a shit.
Brilliant.
That post holic is why you own the bar.
Im only lucky enough to drink in it.
I will now humbly shut my piehole.
Come on you Gunners.
I don’t think Wenger should go, once the stadium is paid and Wenger is able to spend big and he doesn’t deliver then you can say he needs to go. Stoke have spent more money than Arsenal. I know it is hard to believe but it is true.we are in the bottom of the spenders list.
http://transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html
If you bring in Mourinho, Guardiola or even Ferguson he will win nought with the money we usually spend, so I think we are were we are due to the finances and not the manager. United had to buy RVP for 24 million and pay him over 200 grand a week. We cannot compete. Simple.
I can’t see how buying more player in January will improve out defensive frailties, ‘urgency’, or to a degree, tactics. These are down to the manager. We’ve been poor defensively for several seasons and showing no signs of improvement. Why hasn’t this been addressed. Same old questions, same old issues. If we’re struggling now, wait until winter kicks and we start to accumulate injuries as we run players to the ground.
I’d like to see us aiming the guns outwards Tone, especially as we are now in a bowl.
Too much friendly fire for my taste.
I’d say chin up Holic. I’m not a Gooner just an admirer of what’s going on at Arsenal. As an AFC Wimbledon fan I’ve seen to my cost the shitty reality of football these days but I think Wenger sees that. I’d be staggered if you don’t make top 4 again this year. From there it doesn’t take a lot. Keep the faith. Probably means nothing to the fans who are desperate for success at any cost but Arsenal really do have a bit of class that the rest of the big boys don’t. Love your writing by the way.
As I trudged towards the station before the match today a fellow gooner who i had not seen before nodded and asked me what i expected today.”Who knows” I said (or words to that effect) and for the life of me I had no clue what to expect. He agreed with a slightly pitiful gesture of bemusement.
At 2-0 I wondered how we had got in that positon because we’d done precious little to merit it and at half-time i expected us to lose.
at 3-2 i was despondent and at 3-3 i suddenly felt the penny dropped. this is a team where something is going horribly wrong on the coaching front. We have lost much of our creativity,our passing is too slow and predictable,we don’t press the opposition strongly enough and defensive organisation is awful.Berbatov scored from a header four yards from goal without having to jump!Mannone should have saved the second and Arteta contributed to a ‘mare’with a naive challenge for the penalty. Our penalty was utterly Dowdish and very harsh.
Good players have lost their confidence playing in this regime. You are right. This team needs significant investment to reach the Champions League. This team might not make the Europa League.
Bould and Banfield are not filling me or more especially the players with confidence.
Little will be done unless Kroeke/Gazidis see a fall in revenue on the cards. Their first reaction will be to cut budget. Kroenke is the wrong owner but I see no way of shifting him at the present time.I think Wenger is a shadow of his former self and has run out of ways to motivate the players.
Where this all leaves us I don’t know but I doubt that this will be a Groundhog season even unless significant investment is made–and even if it is is the coaching going to be good enough?
Truthfully? Honestly?
Did any of you expect anything different?
Excellent post and plenty of interesting and measured comments from
Supporters who care passionately.
Always a good read.
to those that say its the boards fault, please tell me should they just go out and sign players over the head of the manager, should they pick the team, should they decide on formation, should they decide on the tactics, should they decide on who is in the 25 man squad, should they decide what time subs should come on, or should they actually leave football decisions to the manager – oh wait that is what they do, its our manager who decides all the above things, wenger is a fine manager, was once a great manager, always had flaws, but he has slipped a little and so his flaws make more of a difference now,
he constantly goes on about flat performances, or playing with the handbrake on etc, but for God’s sake its his job to see to it that this does not happen, but his hierarchy of selection means players know they will get away with under-performing and still be in the team the next game, Wenger is also too loyal to his players, AFC had three more signings lined up last summer, but once Squillaci, Chamakh and Arshavin did not find buyers or even loan moves, Wenger withdrew his interest and instead decided to be loyal to his players and risk it, just as he decided to risk not replacing Song as Diaby was fit for a few weeks, wenger is not willing to buy big cos if said big signings flop he knows he is out on his arse, and his record with the big signings is not great, Wiltord, Reyes and Arshavin are our 3 biggest signings, none really lived up to the price tag, yes they all showed flashes of their true worth, enough for us all to know that the ability was there, but sadly Wenger never found a way to get consistent top performances from any of them.
Blame the board for indulging Wenger too much, blame them certainly for the silly over the top ticket prices they charge, blame them for in Stan’s case not engaging with the fans, or even going to games, blame them for not reaching some sort of agreement with R&W so that they could work together for the good of AFC, but stop this nonsense of blaming them for errors that are the sole remit of the football team manager – formation, tactics, selections, subs, training etc
Great post wish more people would take a balanced approach!!
Well put holic. I think the debate going on here and on ACLF is better than you get anywhere on social media. There is something wrong at the moment that sadly seems to be spiralling. I remember being at the Ems this time last season for Spurs game and it was like a pressure cooker. They turned it around that day under immense pressure hopefully they can again next week. Won’t solve our problems but the alternative is too much to contemplate this early in season. Keep up the good work
I remember when Abramowich first arrived at Chelsea and a few new names arrived, everyone, including us Arsenal fans claimed they will be nothing to worry about because the team will need to gel. Strange how now that. arsenal have made major changes to the first team yet we are not allowed that time to gel.
Matured and well stated mate! Perspective is of utmost importance? Thanks for the lovely piece.
Another difficult day at the Grove today. Loud boos from more than a small minority at half time (something I personally cannot understand) did turn into disappointed but appreciative applause at the end, prompted by a spirited effort from the team from 3-2 down. The question remains, why is it only in desperation that the team can find any real spark?
I look at the names in and around the team and cannot accept that our current crop of players are significantly worse than those at the money laden clubs. We may not have stellar names, but the vast majority are seasoned internationals from the large European nations. The players we have are certainly individually better than their current collective form.
For me there are two problems which could be resolved without waiting for January, and the possibility (and it is no more than that) of transfer funds being spent.
The first is we consistently play too many players out of their natural positions. Selection seems to be based on fitting all the “favourites” into the starting 11, with 3 or more at any time asked to “do a job” in a position other than where they perform best. Teams win football matches, and no successful team consistently plays so many out of position.
The second is the speed at which we move the ball. Possession is important but, as Celtic showed on Wednesday night, it is what you do when you have the ball which really counts. Our play is often ponderous and predictable, it was again for large parts of the game today, and as the ball is regularly rolled into feet in tight areas it leads to mistakes, and the ball being turned over in dangerous situations.
These issues could, and should, be addressed now, to ensure our Club is in the best position possible, and therefore a potentially attractive move for any transfer targets if we are to make the most of the January window when it comes.
stuart the major changes are in the attacking side of our team, the main errors are still in our defensive side of our team, we have only failed to score in 3 games this season, but have failed to keep a clean sheet in 13 games
Andy,
We are 7th in the table yet only 2 of the teams above have conceeded less goals (Chelsea and Man City) than us.
I’m not convinced the defence is the real issue and put it down to the team not gelling yet instead.
Great article as ever – I regard this site as the ‘thinking man’s’ fansite. May I highlight one point you mention: extra investment alone in the squad will not be sufficient to see us finish in the top four. Wenger plays many square pegs in round holes, so no matter if he spent Β£100m in January, the team might not be any better for it. What Arsenal need is a formation to suit the current squad – we do not have the players in the attacking third to play 4-3-3 as none of the forwards want to play wide (when the do they are usually hapless and lacking real determination to succeed in the role – ie Poldolski’s recent comments in the German media). And no matter if we got four new defenders, unless team patterns alter, we will still have the same failings that Wenger is proving both unwilling and incapable of solving.
Fair point Stuart, about the gelling. Would go some way to explaining inconsistency.
Taking a wider view though can you see us quickly reverting to the quick movement of the ball from back to front that has been a feature of Arsene’s teams down the years?
I’m not convinced we are playing to our strengths with an insistence on a 4-3-3, no matter how fluid that is intended to be.
I do not understand how we can play such an awkward game when leading by 2 well taken goals.
I do not understand why our midfielders have this lack of urgency to peg back to cover the constantly marked out Arteta. Too many instances a lay off to him, you would see 2-3 opposing players swarm around him. Clearly, we are overly dependent on him to start our attacking forays, whilst the rest of the midfielders were either forced or stubbornly strayed into the opponents half, and were so bloody static in off the ball plays.
I do not undertand how we let this pattern of having either of the 2 playing in centre mids, get robbed off the ball, and the rest simply not bothered or too flustered to give a proper fuck to run back and help out the defensive backs. We let the opponents foray into our last third with open arms and legs time and again. Im getting effing cheesed off now.
David, our posts cross, and yours is a cracker.
Agree entirely spending money in January will not guarantee anything. I would, however, argue that not spending is highly likely to see us finish out of the top four.
Of course one may argue that the money has been retained in the business for this exact situation.
Apologies if this has alread been done on these drinks but I can’t read them all… or to be more accurate, can’t be bothered to π
What really worries me more than anything is that we have a very average side and two of the better performers in that side are seemingly being let go. I cannot understand the club’s apparent reluctance to talk to Sagna and it speaks volumes for me about the Walcott situation. We are told, by those who are close to the club at a high level, that his demands are this, his attitude is rubbish (to which I say bollocks) his people have walked away etc etc and yet it seems to me far more likely that the reluctance to do business is one sided.
Yes, there’s bound to be some hedging of position on the Walcott side going on now we are this close to the end of his deal, but the club should NEVER have allowed itself to get into this situation. It just looks like the club have done what they did with Cole and said, “Here’s the deal, no negotiation” and for me the so-called talks that happened in the international break probably amounted to, “Are you ready to accept our offer?” “No, but let’s negotiate a bit” “Goodbye, see you at Christmas”
This club, far from being well run, is rotten from top to bottom. It’s holding together, just about, but it’s rotting away before our eyes and has been doing so ever since 2004.
As far as Wenger’s health goes, in all seriousness I think it’s down to his eye surgery. Whatever he had done has left him with very dark, dead eyes and he looks awful because of that, like his eyes have shrunk back into his head.
We were leading. Why not sit back a lil in numbers and play our counter attacking game. I really feel that suits our game more than this going against numbers game. Im tired of hearing “shoot” when we are not great playing at bus stops.
Holic-you are a great gooner-but I disagree. There are six reasons why we are not competitive:
1. our record over the past 6 seasons. 2. our best players leave every year-and are sold to our rivals-strengthening them at our expense. 3. Our wage structure does not enable us to compete for top players. 4. we have consistently not been able to replace top players who have left the club with players of equivalent ability.5. the number of goals our defence ships has increased year on year for the past 6 seasons. 6. for the past 6 seasons we have continued to be over-reliant on key players who are injury prone-and it bites us every year and is biting us now.
We might have qualified for the champions league-without any real prospect of being competitive in that competition-until now that is.
Arsenal are only competitive when it comes to the value of ticket sales and the value of its shares.
You state that we are a mid table side now-no one could disagree with that comment. We have just played 2 very average mid table sides at home-scraped past QPR and drawn with Fulham, after losing our last 2 away games in the league.
It is inevitable that Arsenal will fail to enter the champions league on our current trajectory.Do we have to wait until we actually fail completely before we call for major change at the club?
@50 – The club died when it left Highbury. The new stadium was built for one reason and one reason only, to attract a buyer for the club and line pockets.
Goonerholic,
I think a change in formation would work. If we are going to persist with this zonal marking the why not a 352?
The big issue for me is the lack of team gelling / bonding. I’ve said before elsewhere, if I was in charge I’d ban phones and mp3 players in training and on the team bus. There is nothing more alienating and detrimental to unity
I would be reasonably happy for Wenger to stay if he took a pay cut of at least 60%. If we’re going to continue doing things on the cheap, why should he draw such a vast wage?
I don’t know how many managers could have continuously kept us in the Champions League all these years considering the financial strains that comes with building a new stadium. Even though we have continuously sold established players, we have been fairly competitive until except for the last two years. It would be a shame to see Wenger forced out of this club after everything he has done to bring Arsenal to where it is today. My gut feeling is that Wenger hasn’t been getting the full backing of the board when it comes to transfer policy. Something didn’t add up when we sold Cesc, Nasri and RVP. Added to this the recent reports from France suggesting that Wenger wanted Lloris but wasn’t approved the funds to buy him. I would really like to see someone come into Arsenal who can handle our transfers and contracts and let Arsene focus on footballing, like in the day when Dein and Wenger worked together.
Holic – I guess I was trying to say in criptic form that I feel more can be got out of this current squad. I was a teenager when AW arrived and I love the guy, but in my job (as with anyone’s) if I made the same failings time after time, I would be shown the door. I am not in the pro-Wenger camp because we never learn how to correct our failings; I am not in the anti-Wenger camp as someone who studied history, I fully admire what he as done for our team and English football. But if someone had to make me decide should he stay or go I would sign for the latter as our problems are down to him being stubborn, not a coach, and tactially he is inept. As someone on the train said to me after the match today, he got his success with Arsenal due to the great players he had and no he is working with lesser players he can’t work with them to improve them. On reflection I think my fellow passenger has point. I don’t blame for not spending Β£100m, I blame him for playing the likes of Santos (worst player in my 25 years of supporting Arsenal – he is worse than Big Igor and that says everything) and for not getting tactical displine into the side. I honestly think an average EPL manager could get more out of our squad, through better organisation, playing players in their correct position, and altering the formation to suit them. I am a fan of 4-3-3, but not with the personnel we have! As I put on twitter tonight, you know your team is in decline when a team like Fulham (and boy they should have won today) come to The Grove and play an attacking system with the intention to win the match.
Makes nice reading to a point!
But the reality is we are leaking goals and confidence or the lack of is again a major issue. Hearing Wenger coming out immediately issuing his blame list after throwing in the towel somedays earlier. I know where the weakest link in the chain is to be found.
Only in the world of pro-football can you find players earning Β£50k + a week and do not have a do anything to for it. The Squallaci’s in many a clubs. Here is the revolutionery Arsenal model, you work hard or sit on your ASS the entire season, you earn the same. Isn’t that a killer of motivation? The rest of us in our careers had to face the heat with a six months probation period.
Arsenal first team need a dose of confidence, that is not coming from management!
A word for those new to here. Any post containing personal abuse of Arsenal people, whether players, staff, or supporters will have their post removed.
Please debate respectfully, thank you.
Pick ANY one of the 19 other Premier League teams.
They can beat us.
@ 54 – Competetive? Since moving we have been 21, 4, 18, 11, 12 and 19 points off the pace. Miles off in all but one year.
Damn it, a lost drink means my reply should be to 53, not 54.
Calvin,
Yes, I said before, people need to read between the lines rather than accept the bs published in general media. For instance, When Wenger said no-one would take us seriously if we sold our best players, he wasn’t trying to mislead us fans but instead was having a snide dig at his employers regarding their plans.
Do you seriously think Arsene Wenger has no input on who goes and who stays?
Did you seriously read that from my above comment?
Yes. Your post above makes it sound as if the board sold players out from under him. “their plans”
Yes, on occasion which is why he would have made the snide dig. It wouldn’t happen all the time, just when the board stand to lose a large sum of money due to a free transfer coming up.
Do you seriously think Wenger makes every decision?
Very nice scripted article holic – you’ve managed a wonderful balance between the head and the heart. Much ruminating to be done but not till the game that matters next Saturday has passed. We dont know which Arsenal is turning up for each game….the players appear to have lost all sense of match rythmn…somethings gotta give! Time to get back to the Somerset Brandy!
as much as i hate them, this is why they are top and we are not
gone are the days when you knew the gunners would score and win , now its bite yer nails time until the whistle goes.
I think giroud will start to show how good he is from here
have strange feeling about next weekend.we can do it
thank god its sunny here today.
Man Utd’s comebacks this season
β’Aug 25: From 0-1 down to beat Fulham 3-2
β’Sept 2: From 0-1 and 1-2 to beat Southampton 3-2
β’Sept 23: from 0-1 down to beat Liverpool 2-1
β’Oct 2: From 0-1 down to beat Cluj 2-1
β’Oct 20: From 0-1 to beat Stoke 4-2
β’Oct 23: From 0-2 down to beat Braga 3-2
β’Nov 7: From 0-1 down to beat Braga 3-1
β’Nov 10: From 0-2 to beat Aston Villa 3-2
6 goals in 1 game, pretty action packed afternoon. 1 point is better than none.
Nothing is going to change until Wenger goes.And that aint going to happen as long a Kroenke is the owner.As long as the priority at the club is profits before trophies and 4th place is good enough we are stuck in this rut forever.7 years without a trophy and Wenger is as safe in his job as he was in 2004
Although the club says the crowd was 60,000 there were at least 10,000 empty seats.The empty seats will grow as the season goes on
Wenger was a good manager once but is now an average manager.Tactically clueless and cant motivate multi-millionaires like Sir Alex can
@64 – Yeah, I do. He IS the club thesedays, like it or not, and I don’t believe for a moment that he would put up with a situation where the club says they are selling a player, if he wanted to keep him.
Just to let you all know that I am still here and I STILL have nothing worth saying to say.
Maybe there are a few others here who might read their posts before submitting.
Sometimes fighting the good fight requires an element of silence.
We all know the problems, formation, defence, lack of investment, lack of discipline, lack of leadership, too much money for not enoguh return, selling our best assets and replacing them with second class goods, players being played out of out of position, players still playing even though it is obvious they are out of form, players that even manage to stay in favour with the management regardless of any of the above.
But the problems are not going to be sold by division and derision and certainly not by an all-encompassing “I told you so” message.
It makes no difference being here and claiming to be on one side of the fence or the other, so why take sides at all?
Belief system being challenged? Something you said three years ago coming back to bite you in the Arsenal? Sheer blind foolish pride?! A simple lack of ability to say the unspeakable or think the unthinkable?
There are no SIDES here, there is only the Arsenal and, if you genuinely don’t see the phenomenally obvious taking place before your very eyes, for almost 8 years now, then you are too affected by the will to be loyal or at least appear to be loyal than with the will to see our team succeed.
Think carefully Gooners…This is genuinely a make or break moment in our history and solutions, not infighting, should be the ONLY goal of ANY conversation.
Be respectful and be honest. Pretending for the sake of it is still just pretending.
It was a strange old day at the Grove. I received a text as I walked to the ground asking for my thoughts on the impending proceedings. My answer was that it all depended on what Arsenal actually showed up.
It was a bit of a noting start to the game, and then all of a sudden and for no apparent reason we were two up. The first was a well taken header from Giroud. The second a fine finish from Podolski at close range. It was going to be a stroll in the park????
It was then that the other Arsenal clicked into gear. A soft goal conceded from a corner. Will someone please explain to me why we use a zonal marking system??? The second was poor beyond belief. Players out of position allowed an innocuous cross to reach the box. Then, for some inexplicable reason Vito is beaten by a header from all of 10 yards out.
The second half saw many almost resigned to the inevitable. A soft penalty given away. Vito manfully tried to save Berbatovβs spot kick by sitting on his arse.
OG manages to make a game of it with a well taken equaliser to set up a frantic finish. Seconds remain and we are fortunate to get awarded a penalty. Up steps Mickey A. I got the distinct impression that he was not the nominated penalty taker pre match. He seemed more than reluctant. A poor spot kick capped his worst performance in an Arsenal shirt. The whistle goes almost immediately. The funny thing is that there are no boos or real venting of spleens. The sad fact was there was an over bearing feeling of acceptance. It was as if no one really expected anything else. Now, that is a massive worry in my opinion.
There were some positives from the day. OG had his best game. I od think he has limitations, but his work rate was impressive and he took his goals well. Theo also impressed. I must say that I have no problem with any of his attempts on goal today. Arshavin also needs more playing time. In his cameos he has often been a threat. Today his direct running, even when it does not come off caused constant problems.
You are right holic, we are not in terminal decline. But we are in decline. It is a steady decline and in my opinion has been going on for several seasons now. It has been gradual. We talk about last season. Last season we finished third for two reasons. The massive implosion of our neighbours and the goals of a departed Dutchman. The reasons are numerous. I do not intend repeating them now.
One thing I would say is that none of the current issues are helped by what I can only describe as the shocking PR at the club. The fans appetites are constantly wetted by promises of the nearing of the promised land. Us fans have continued to feast on the scraps thrown to us until gradually more and more have started to realise that a lot is just media bullshit. 5 year plans are now 10 year plans. Players that will be out for 3 weeks means 3 months minimum. Is this just to parade them as a βnew signing?β Press conferences to announce record figures etc. sometimes I just wish they would just say nothing.
Nice balanced report holic. I hope your day of celebrations with Mrs H was far more enjoyable than the afternoon we endured.
Holic, You’ve urged us to think for ourselves. Your piece might just prove to be a watershed moment at the bar. One we might refer back to in the near future. Like with your theory on German dominence in world futbal. You were right about that, when you wrote about it last spring. If we can’t win our NLD against the Tiny Totts, your talking points will be revisited by you and your guests. I fear what you will have to say. And I know it won’t be easy for you π
Uplympian@65
Do you honestly believe that we don’t know which Arsenal will turn up?
Apart from the CoC, which was an absurd game where the very best and the very worst of our club occupied the pitch at the same time, do we really believe any more that there are 2 Arsenals?!
Look at our record thus far this season…Scarily enough, there is obviously only one Arsenal and it has been run into the ground by the money-men and the management who have convinced all but the most overpaid and underplayed to leave the club in spades.
Love him or hate him, The Rotter will challenge for trophies this season and we will quite simply not be doing the same.
Can we honestly blame him who, at 29 years old and with 8 years in the Premiership and a season as the top goalscorer on the league, he has never actually picked up a single medal that will personally mean anything to him?
There are not 2 Arsenal’s any more. There is the one that loses to Fulham, Chelsea, ManU, Schalke and Norwich and plays like these events never happened regardless and goes on to repeat the same mistakes over and over again seemingly oblivious to the lessons that were there to be learnt from the last games.
Time to accept that the Jekyll and Hyde Arsenal is dead…Now we only have the Hyde.
Frustration? I get Frustration. I wear it like a suit………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKKbg4I_-nw
A bit of self indulgence. Enjoy.
@69
thats a bit delusional. He is in charge of the squad not the plc.
If you have ever noticed the annual accounts, you would have seen that player sales are what kept the club in profit on many occasions. Hence my view that pressure is put on Wenger regarding player sales (especially since house prices dropped and therefore income from the Highbury development had to be made up somewhere else). How can he refuse? The request is from his employers who don’t even have to give him any choice by the way (if they do) (see Tottenham and their Director of football setup in the past).
“Think carefully Goonersβ¦This is genuinely a make or break moment in our history and solutions, not infighting, should be the ONLY goal of ANY conversation.”
Like it or not, there are sides and those sides are never going to agree on the solutions, because the main one involves a change of manager and one side still has faith in him. I wonder what it would take for those who do to lose it, but I don’t want to find out because I suspect it would take something like relegation.
Only once since 2004 have we remotely looked like we would win the title that was in 2008.In 4 of the last 7 seasons we have finished 4th.And thats what we are playing for again this season 4th
But sadly some Gooners continue to look at 4th as success.I dont remember reading Herbert Champan say 4th was success or hearing GG or early Wenger say 4th was success.
Their is a culture of accepting failure at the club.Rewarding poor players (Bendtner Denilson Djourou Arshavin and Chamakh) and always injured players(Diaby and Rosicky) long term contracts.That is down to Wenger.The wage bill is Β£130m
How long are Sagna Walcott and Wilshire going hang around a club that lacks any ambition?And remember we make our profits through player sales
Can I refer you all to #3, which will not change π
Holic,
Once again it’s time to take your own advice on apologising, and especially for expressing your own opinion.
At half time today I was really angry. By the time I left the stadium anger had turned into the now habitual resignation and frustration.
Arriving home, I was about to write a long piece on the current state of on-pitch affairs, which may have been of some use to those following only the ball on a small screen, or listening to a radio commentary.
Finally, I decided, like Lars, to sleep on it.
It wasn’t a ‘grumpy git’ piece, but a collection of quotes from recent programme notes which are beginning to insult the intelligence.
Tonight I need to sleep without getting angry again, so I’ll do it tomorrow.
Hope the unfolding events didn’t spoil your day with the management.
Delusional? It is delusional to think the club will force the hand of someone who long ago ceased to be a mere employee; the man who basically runs the football side of the club from top to bottom. If you seriously believe he gets leaned on to sell his best players against his will, I suggest the delusion is yours.
Bottom line – the club and the manager share the same goal and the same low ambition. The manager gave up trying to win years ago, when Abramovich started pouring money into players. He wants to maintain a top four place and if he can do that by selling off all the best players, lovely. He gets handsomely paid for delivering profits, on his own admission, and life is great because he can still pull the managerial wool over most people’s eyes. What a great job he does, they say, on limited resources as the club sits on at least Β£70m CASH and adds more to the pile every transfer window.
The club wants money. They want the illusion of being an important club as well of course, but if they can maintain their position in the top four and keep raking the cash in, that’s all they want.
At any serious club, Wenger would have been gone four years ago. The only self sustaining thing here is the Wenger myth IMO.
Holic – you have mail π
Yes delusional.
Another comment Wenger made about having to make a profit. This would be his employers instruction that 20 mill a season is required and not a department managers decision (because that’s all he is).
I repeat, Wenger is in charge of the squad, he won’t even get to see the books, that’s for board meetings and that’s when they decide if more money is needed (with player sales and cheap replacements the obvious target) after all, Wenger has been successful with this before so why would they assume he won’t be again.
I was another one who realised we were heading in the wrong direction when i stayed up to watch transfer deadline day a few seasons ago knowing we desperately needed cover for a few key positions and we got sweet fa, the deadline came and went and we were one of the clubs that never bought a single player.
In Wenger we rust.
Miracles do happen, but not two seasons in a row.
Let’s hope for a favour from Man City and Chelsea tomorrow.
Yep, time to get realistic, guys.
Good post Holic..
I actually enjoyed the game today – I saw 6 goals, some good play from both sides and as usual some farcical defending.
I guess its because I know we have no chance of wining the title and little chance of a top 4 spot but we won’t be relegated. Who knows we may possibly pull off one of the domestic cups and to me at least that would be a thrill.
Like many other Gooners I don’t have a clue what the result will be when I go to a game and now we lose so frequently, my expectations are much more realistic and defeat is losing its sting.
Not making a top 4 spot may be cathartic and force the changes at the top a lot of us have felt for a while are obviously needed.
So holics.
Who to take over?
Whos better and available? And please put away the FiFa video games.
Lets have a top list.
Heres mine:
Nothing ails us that a 9-nil drubbing of Sp*ds couldn’t cure.
Let’s fuck up the other fellows.
SFO to LHR
Damn it’s a long flight.
Cheers. Next stop London!
NorCal. YOU can be our good luck charm. As a matter of fact, I’m counting on you. Safe travels. π
“Love him or hate him, The Rotter will challenge for trophies this season and we will quite simply not be doing the same. Can we honestly blame him who, at 29 years old?”
Thierry Wrightkamp. Absolutely spot on. I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for someone to have the balls to say it. Well done. All I have read is constant slating of RVP for moving. For some reason there are those that think it appropriate to sing songs about an allegation made 7 years ago that was proved to have been a publicity stunt by the complainant. How pathetic it that????
I was gutted that when he left. I am not naive enough to think for one minute that money did not play a large part in the move. But for those who want to abuse him non stop just remember this. We have just been told that in two years time that we may be able to compete again in the transfer market. This is despite bucket loads sat in the bank. In two years time RVP will be 31. Would you have stayed???? One final point to those who think his move was solely money orientated. If it was then why did he not join Citeh?????
Boo, shout out all the obscenities you want but there is not one Arsenal fan alive who is not sat there now wishing that RVP had signed that contract and was still and Arsenal player. Do you honestly think we would be in the position we are now if he had stayed?????
NorCal, What 8ball said. Enjoy! π
Now to read Steve T π
Steve, As I recall, Citeh was unwilling to come up with the cash for him as was Juve (who had a Joy Of Six win today). Water under the bridge, anyway. The manner which he left, will always cause fans like me, to second guess his every gesture (even if it is sincere). He’s brought that upon himself. Terrific player, yes. Terrific role model, no. Giroud on the other hand, is a man of character. We should really make the effort to nail Theo down. Big mistake if we let him walk. Next week, we might have Gibbs back (Lordy, please). If not, play Jenks on the right and Bac on the left (he’s a pro, he can do it). Give Santi a break, and utilize AA instead. Up front Poldi/AOC, Giroud, and Theo.The beauty with Jack is that he is as defensive minded as offensive. He can fill Arteta’s slot, freeing up Arteta to go forward. Losing some battles doesn’t mean we can’t win the war. Just ask Gen Patton π
To avoid repeating part of my view i’ll just point to post number 20 by Jon. Exactly what has been happening for the last 7-8 seasons.
To add to this we have a so called self sustainable project which requires us to be careful and efficient with our spending. Unfortunately that only exists when it comes to on the field matters. What I mean by this is we are reluctant to spend on nnew players or pay high wages to exceptionally quality players who play for us and instead sell them on – key decisions which will bring success on the field which ultimately will bring success off the field but funny how there is no wage cap at the top of the hierarchy. Our CEO is one of, if not the best paid CEO in the country and our manager gets double what Sir Alex is paid. Add the fact the board are given bonuses along with the CEO for their “success” of bringing in lucrative marketing deals its a contradicting/hypocritical self sustainable project. There is simple formula which the board have totally got wrong. Everyone knows in business you need to invest to gain maximum results. Pay peanuts you’ll get the same outcome. The simple formula goes like this: invest money into team = success on the field = media attention = greater marketing deals = bigger fan base = increased merchandise sales = demand in advertising sponsors etc – and this cycle will continue – BUT you MUST invest.in the area which is the core of your success – the squad. I’ll leave it with this…take the football out of AFC. We are right now Arsenal Business Club
Coming out of hiding… I am very hesitant to respond or engage- times are very trying right now- but I feel the need to disagree with Thierry Wrightkamp. There have been games this very season with this very squad that have been a sheer joy to watch- creative, quick, and effective. I am the first to admit that this has been few and far between, and altogether missing of late, but I simply can’t stand behind the idea that Carzola, Arteta, Wilshere, Giroud, Verm, Met, Sagna, Kos, Theo and the like somehow are now permanently lost souls of football. No doubt something is very, very, very challenged right now, and may not turn back up right, but I for one won’t dismiss this team, for all their struggles.
Drink on me, ‘Holic. You are a man of grace.
@Steve
I have no problem with RvP leaving. i honestly don’t blame him. It only saddens me that we sold him to ManU. Our squad is weaker and theirs is stronger. If he stayed ManU would probably be sitting 2nd or 3rd, and RvP would be kicking himself as we blow yet another 2-0 lead…committing the same old mistakes. Does anyone seriously think Theo is going to stay? I can’t see it myself. Another badly handled contract situation.
8 ball- class, as usual. Murder of the enemy always livens the spirits, eh! π
Steve T ypu can say the same about all the quality players that have left Arsenal recently – they want success. The extra inventive to this is these clubs pay very good too. Forget football for a minute. If you were offered an opportunity to be in a team of potential achievers with quality throughout and were offered good money too or be part of a team of underachievers who have lost faith in the boss what would you do? Those who say stay are kidding themselves. Lets go as far back as “cashey” cole. He wanted 5k extra. Thats all he asked for. Yet we wouldnt offer it to the best left back in the world but we offer Denilson 60k. The Theo situation scares me. Arsene saying they will fight to keep him. Last time he said that Flamini, Nasri, Fabregas and RVP left. The board and Arsene are obviously not trying hard enough. You can say what you want “oh the player is greedy”. But wait hang on…the CEO has no wage cap and is paid healthy amd our manager is paid double what Sir Alex is paid and hasnt won anythimg for 8 seasons. No word of them being greedy is there? So before you start shouting abuse to Nasri, who has since won the PL and RVP who is top of the table think why these players leave. They have lost faith in the team Arsene built 6 seasons ago and seen our captains leave every year. That is poor management of the club.
Boys and Girls. My point re RVP was simply this. Since he has gone all I have read is bile and vitriolic abuse directed towards him. I have been waiting for ages for someone to actually say just what has been said. Now I am not for one second going to suggest that I have no anger at his departure. But having listened to the comments made at the AGM can anyone blame him for leaving??? I canβt.
There are good points made about others leaving. I have said several times now that you can not hope to progress if you constantly sell your best players. Especially if it makes your rivals stronger.
Re the likes of Theo and Bacs? Well, who knows. Contract negotiations? We are not that great at them at the moment are we?????
Mamun thats a fair point. And a clever avatar name btw.
Safe travels norcal. Always enjoy your posts.
We will get past this. This squad will gel. We will all look back at this and shake our heads.
This is fucking arsenal football club. Never forget that.
Night all. Cheers to any left in the bar. Heres whats left of my bottle of Tullamore Dew. Have yer way with her.
Steve @ 100 With you on Theo and Bac. Imperative we keep them. As for Ashley and Samir, I’ve stuck out my neck many times for them. Rug rats the both of them. And I said before I’m grateful to RVP for his contributions. But I’ll never trust a word he says, ever again. More the pity. Theo has impressed me, playing well after lung injury, intestinal bug and apparently played with a glute injury (ouch!) You know that feeling, when you fall down and land hard on your butt, that awful spasm! My point is, he’s all grown up now and proving his metal.
‘Holic,very well presented and reasoned appraisal of our current malaise. For the second week running I commend you on your ability to remain calm when all around are losing thier heads.We have never met,nor are we ever likely to, but I feel you must be a nice,humble man,who is passionate about our club.My own feeling is also one of frustration: only the year changes,all the problems remain pretty much as they have been for the past five or six seasons.None of us has the answer to the myriad questions of course, but I am increasingly concerned that Wenger hasnt either.I remember watching Liverpool in the seventies, when, even if they were 3-0 down with ten minutes to play,you just knew they would win,and invariably they did — the same can be said of United in thier pomp, and of course Arsenal,back in the day. Give us a one goal lead and,essentially, the game was over — I just dont get that feeling anymore — I’m not expecting it to return anytime soon, frankly. Not dpressed, so much as resigned to impending mediocrity — having just written that I’m starting to get depressed.
Top class drinks by PiK, Steve T and more of the usual and less than usual suspects. Thank God for you all. π
I also made a point regarding Theo in #4. Indeed it is imperative we keep him. What kind of ambition will we be displaying if wensold him, both externally and internally to our own players?
It was sad to see but last week it’s clear that our players mostly still adore RVP. He was our captain last season after all. And what kind of message did it give our players when we sold him, of all buyers, to Man U? He was by miles our best player last season, and having him sold might well deplete our players’ confidence to win trophies.
We talk of mental strength each week at the Club, but we seem to be selling players who do have this mental strength, all the while keeping players who don’t. I’m not saying all our players are bad, nor am I saying Nasri has this mental strength. But Cashley? Toure? Fabregas? RvP?
All this smells of mismanagement. Our team as a whole is worse than the sum of its parts. When the wage structure in an organization fails to reward great performers, and continues to placate underperformers, the management is at fault. It might be Arsene’s, or it might be the board’s fault, but the faults are there for everyone to see. To me it also looks as if Arsene’s hands are always tied. He talked almost a year ago about needing to make a 25 million transfer profit before he can spend. He also talked about how he wanted neither Nasri or Fabregas to leave. It bewilders me to see how we sold off our best talents consistently, and we really don’t know how such decisions are being made at this Club.
The board talks about supporting the manager’s plans, and yet we lose out on players like Mata and Cazorla last year. Regarding RVP, honestly I can’t see any football club manager in the world who would be willing to sell their best player to a direct league rival, at least not without the board telling him what to do.
Something’s gotta give. A change in tactics. A change in our squad roster. A change in board management strategy. A change in our transfer spending. A change in our wage structure. A change of manager? I still dare not. But as our jersey laid out, we need to move Forward. We’re slowly pedaling backwards at the moment.
also thanks to take a bow for the fulham stats yesterday
i am even more confused now
Understand the sentiments being expressed but I just want to say that Arteta had his worst game for Arsenal ever and this holding role is destroying his mentality towards the better parts of his game. Verminator is a shadow of the player we know and maybe needs to be given a rest and have the armband taken from him. Bac is playing like a man who no longer wants be be there, so Arsene should cut his losses and let Jenks or Yanneris have his spot.
Cazorla needs to be given a break to freshen the batteries. Per and Kos were actually not bad and the front contributed as they should. Le Coq should not have been dragged, Arteta should have been. Ox should have come on for him as Rambo is just struggling. I would had Eisfeld on the bench and brought him on for Theo and Andrei did well when he came on.
Jack is not the fix at least until he gets fit enough and should be used as a sub at first to build form and fitness.
That said I will support the boys and manager no matter what, that includes if the unthinkable happened and we got relegated. That’s football and you can’t always be the best but you can always give your best and some of our lads just aren’t doing that at the moment.
Go you gunners!
Fine Words Holic,
Some points of view from a die hard fan all the way from India.
– Arsenal now figure lower and lower in the rapidly burgeoning and hugely spending intl viewer market. I see this here and in SE Asia clear as day. The fan base for a Man City is rapidly catching up. Chelsea’s hitherto small numbers are now possibly 2nd to Man Utd, a clear number one. (Liverpool fans have been decidedly invisible for some time)
– this is a direct result of us slowly losing our ‘cool factor’ internationally. Most new ‘footie fans’ have limited knowledge n follow a herd. The herd follows what they think is cool. The Arsenal, it pains me to say, is no longer perceived as such.
– we are seen now as a feeder club that sees profit above anything else, led by an under confident manager who once upon a time brought out the best from his men. That was once upon a time.
– whatever sheen there was left with RVP. If u sell your talisman u need to send out a message. A business message. Spend the entire 24 mill u got on that sale or more if u have to, to replace like for at least near like. This needed to be an investment in our perception management. I’m in that business. I can say this on authority that we lost lots of new fans who would have spent plenty on Arsenal goodies n tickets.
– the Ostriches in management have absolutely no idea that the bigger battle is lost when you lose your brand aura. We had an ‘Invincible’ aura once. That was barely a decade ago.
– Truth is Fergie gets this. Sir Alex will do anything to preserve the perception of Man Utd. He invested in the best striker in Europe. Paid above market it seemed for a player; 29, allegedly plastic legged n in final year of contract. Fergie punted for his club’s aura. It worked. We had the option of playing out RVP as well. More likely we’d have won something. RVP would have been 30. Maybe he’d have re signed or not. Either way the perception gained would have been worth many hundred million pounds. I believe that’s more than 24.
The manager doesn’t make it easy for himself. The board equally so.
Whether it be a top class keeper, holding midfielder, or striker the fans and most pundits/journo’s have seen where the issues in the team lie.
At the end of various season the manager has identified areas that have cost us during the season raising hope among us that these areas would be addressed. Alas they never were.
We have gone from a team that only needed two or three players to make us as good as anything in Europe to a team that looks no different to any other second tier premiership team.
I’ve gone at holic over this issue before but I still don’t see what Kroenke has done to earn so much respect from some of the regulars. Yes he’s a safe pair of hands in terms of the balance sheet but I don’t get the impression he is desperate for us to be winners on the pitch. I can’t be arsed to have the argument again re Usmanov and R&W. I’ve agreed to disagree in the past and sure it’ll be no different this time.
As for the manager I think he’s become so obsessed about paying the mortgage he’s missing the fact the bloke down the road is f*cking his wife. In his bed.
I think if Arsene keeps telling himself the lie that the champions league is good enough then it’ll hide the truth he fears most: he’s no longer a winner.
The weight of responsibility of keeping a roof over our heads has meant that rather than actually risk something to have it all, he’s weighed up the risk/reward and favoured the prudent route. Nothing wrong with that per se, it’s just the message that transmits to the players.
It creates an environment of mediocrity and allows the players an all too easy escape come season end. “well we made it to the champions league so the season was okay”. I appreciate the arguments for the clubs image/finances for the champions league. After 15 consecutive qualifications I for one am beginning to view our participation in this competition as nothing other than a balance sheet exercise as there seems no real desire on the boards part to afford us a chance of winning it. That may okay for some teams, but I would argue that shouldn’t be the case for us.
Did any of us ever question if the players actually believed in this champions league (4th spot a trophy) talk as being enough? I don’t think top players will buy into that. If that’s what the manager wants you to buy into, the club wants you to buy into, why wouldn’t you be jumping ship.
Winning is infectious. It also breeds a culture of winning that defies logic at times (last minute goals, never say die attitudes etc).
Winners want to win, not qualify.
All that said, I’m arsenal til I die. I know I am, I’m sure I am.
@ katsby,
Well said mate. Well said.
Seconded, Kasby. The reputation of this club in America, at least in Los Angeles, is similarly tarnished. Chelsea sold out the Rose Bowl recently, no way Arsenal would be able to do that here. we are a niche team now, Chelsea, City, and of course United (the biggest, by far, even more than Barcelona), and to casual fans mention Arsenal and all you get is a lot of jokes about who we are selling next, when will Wilshere go to Chelsea? etc. our brand is in tatters, but not too surprising when your owner runs the St. Louis Rams and your board are geriatrics.
BE optimisitic.
Maybe we can do a “Chelsea”- Finishing Sixth but a CL trophy get us to CL next year.
There is always hope tomorrow…
If a worse outcome of replacing Wenger is a eight-trophyless-year. then I will accept.
Any manager will bring some silverwares with the fourth highest wage bill in EPL.
Remember the gunners were leading the spuds 2-0 some seasons ago. Later Wenger’s men lost the game 3-2. This is criminal and unacceptable for atop class manager. It has gone on too long,long,long,long.
Wenger has got to answer for this. As some one said he shd get a 50% paycut.I have an uncanny feeling this will be the season when the gunners can’t get the cl berth.Then Wenger shd pay the penalty.
In fact he could surprise us by mounting a massive spending spree.
I would put it as 3/10. There is another way and that is he has to make the gunners hard to beat and play hit on the break. But the problem is his dna is geared towards the offensive nature of the game. He has neglected the defence too long.
We are in decline.
not just decline in result, also decline in football style. When we have Eduardo, helb, flamini, cesc, rosicky, adebayor, we pass quickly , one touch and with purpose. Not our domination in possession is a illusion. Our rival just let us have possession. Our players now pass just to get rid of the ball, get rid of the responsibility to be creative. ManU realise this. sunderland, stoke city realise it, fulham knew this, even QPR knew it…. Bottom three now will come to Emirates, knowing the can play us .
Brandon Rodgers is too foolish to realise it.
Sadly, our manager is certain not knowing this.
Fair post ‘holic,
Several interesting posts, and certainly passionate, but without a doubt, Kasby’s (supported by Jaymin’s) is the best and most revealing and worrying in equal measure! It smacks all, especially the “money-men”, bang in the middle of their proverbial and complacent faces! Not good news at all very many financial fronts!
We now really do have a massively serious and palpable problem with the direction and decisions that these “prudent” and “reputed” geniuses of modern sporting and football economics are taking for our collective mass! One now must ask the fundamental question, do all of them really understand the deep and irrational devotion and passionate emotions invoked by football and in supporting one’s club? I am now beginning to think not and sadly, Arsene seems to have lost that integral incite too! No big sponsorship deals will be appearing on the horizon soon and that I am pretty certain off! After all that has been spouted about how well positioned we are for FFP, that will be the biggest smack in the face for the board and management, when no massive deals will ever come our way from the corporates! Welcome back Sega “DREAMCAST” shirt-sponsorship!
honestly, i wish this is the last year wenger is in charge. Lets have a statue of Wenger outside the stadium t honour this great man. Then he should go.
We may not be challenging the title every year, but with the huge wage bills, we should have two or three trophy last seven years. Since Wenger fail to do this, and 7 (8 is coming) years is long enough a wait, I beg him to go before his reputation is damaged beyong repairs.
See you next Saturday mate, after that not so sure. Like you and Tone both alluded to, and I was bought up on (in football supporting terms), we’re allin this together.
Not any more we aint and I’ve had about enough of it.
Maybe we cannot afford a 40m Falcao. But a decent goal keeper? Schwarzer for 3M in 2010. Lloris for 7M in 2012. Why can’t we afford that? Maybe it is our manager misjudgment that Fabianski, Manone and Sze are good enough. I do not think (even Wojo) they are good enough for a title aspiring team. It is clear that you can solve one of your major problem with just a few millions, yet the manager fail totally to addressed that for too long.!!! woeful.
Right, then… my thoughts.
Yesterday was very frustrating as we have already established. The club is not in freefall but going in the wrong direction. But why?
Well, if I had the answer to that I would probably be working at the top level of football and not be an armchair expert. Is it Wenger? Is it the board? Is it…?
I think the simple answer is that there is no simple answer. I think that there are several factors working together here, some of our own doing and some that we have little control over. I’ll try to go through a few of them.
Whoever is responsible for the wage structure, sacking Arsene isn’t magically going to make the Squillaci/Denilson/Bentdner/etc contracts null and void and free up a load of cash – we are stuck with them until the contracts expire or they will accept to leave on their own volition. The flat wage structure is dead and buried (at least that is what both Wenger and Gazidis have said), but it takes time to turn an oil tanker around. We are still paying for old sins in this respect.
And what if it is the board that is stopping Wenger from buying more players? Why would they allow a new manager to loosen the purse strings any further? Wouldn’t it be more likely that they would want to hire a cheap option, a yes-man that won’t cause any problems at board meetings?
We did, however, have very little control over the influx of oil/gas money and the complete distortion of the transfer market that caused. Take the City/Chelsea money away and we’d only have had ManU to compete with, basically. And while we may have the fifth (yes, fifth, not fourth – Liverpool have a bigger wage bill than us) largest wage bill we are still miles and miles behind Man City, ManU and Chelsea. We should of course not be behind a team like West Brom in the league just because of this, but this leads me to…
the injuries. We have far too many of them and this is NOT, I repeat for probably the millionth time NOT, down to bad luck. This is something we do to ourselves and is perhaps the single biggest factor in our recent struggles. Just think about it, with a full team to select from yesterday we could have had Diaby, we could have had Rosicky, we would have had Gibbs at left-back, and we would have had Szczesny in goal and he would never have conceded that second goal. It isn’t even that far-fetched to imagine that Jack hadn’t been suspended yesterday if, say, Rosicky had been available to be subbed on at Old Trafford last week. We would not have had to play Cazorla for 90 minutes every game and so on and so on.
We also lack continuity, and this is probably down to a combination of our own fault and external factors. We can’t keep changing around the squad so much all the time and while a few of the departures may well have been down to poor negotiating skills, there is also the money factor in this. But if you look at the teams that are currently on an upward trajectory like West Brom and Everton, they have had their squads pretty much intact for a few seasons and that helps a lot. We don’t really have an established core in this team at the moment, and we will never get one if we don’t somehow manage to hold on to the main players.
I could probably go on for quite a while. But what I am really trying to say here is that while “sack the board”, “get a new owner” or “sack Wenger” might seem like easy solutions, I firmly believe that there is no easy solution. Not even getting a sugar-daddy in would neccessarily change things too much, QPR have spent shitloads and they are still a shit team who are yet to win a game this season.
Anyway, that was my two pennies’ worth of thoughts. I shall now turn my attention to making some breakfast, but realising I forgot to do the shopping I had intended to do yesterday I must first go down to the shop and get some food. And it’s raining. And it’s cold. Oh, buggering bollocks, these First World Problems can really break a man down!
Well, leaving a comment at this late stage can only mean that I am bound to repeat someone. But I’m not here to please, just to have my say, whether it’s a recycled statement or not.
There is a time to panic and really lose our heads, but i’m not sure this is it. Apart from the teams that can really afford to be consistently achieving, the rest of us with smaller wallets will inevitably go through a stage of mediocrity or brilliance, depending on what half of the league table you are used to viewing your team.
I’m sure none of you have. But we mustn’t forget that Wenger hasn’t finished lower than fourth with Arsenal!! He has also been a leading role in providing Arsenal fans with a brand new state of the art stadium, so that more Arsenal fans can enjoy watching live performances.
I think this is just a phase. Albeit an uncomfortable and unwelcome phase, but a phase none the less and one we are going to have fight through. We need to stick together and support our team. Being an Arsenal fan means watching, and supporting your team through the good and the bad.
I have to agree with a statement that Stuart made about the team bus and ban on headphones and phones. It would be nice to see the boys walk off the bus having a laugh and a chat with each other. Rather than coming off the bus as a group of singles with their over sized, retro headphones, it would be nice to see them walk off the bus as a group, a team! Gelling personally can only help gelling as a team on the pitch.
Anyway thats my lot.
Fantastic Lars I couldn’t have said it better !!!!! that is telling like it is
Lars knows.
It’s easy to get angry and demand the manager is sacked. It’s much harder to step back and look at all the factors that are causing our woes.
The manager isn’t perfect, far from it, but in all the rage, all the many posts suggesting he should go, I haven’t seen one suggestion as to who should replace him, much less who would be willing to take the job and abide by the current financial restraints. When I sit down and think about it, I reckon our best available option would probably be David Moyes, assuming he can be got. He has experience of the league, he wouldn’t cost the earth, and he knows how to run a club on a budget. There’s part of me that would like to see a Moyes Arsenal team (we might actually grow some bollocks), but would I kick Wenger out for him? Not in a million years.
A lot of this “Wenger out” stuff is pure catharsis. It’s not a practical solution, just a knee reaction. Do I think we’re going backwards? Yes – clear as day. But can we arrest that trend while we consistently sell our best players and turn a transfer profit summer after summer? No, I very much doubt it. Until our ludicrous approach to transfers and contract negotiations changes, we will continue to endure an extremely bumpy ride. Both of those factors are driven by fiscal parsimony, and if you honestly think that Wenger is the source of this parsimony, turning down huge buckets of cash from the board, then I’d suggest you have not been paying attention.
Otherwise, some good discussion on here. I can see merit in a lot of the criticism, including that of the manager (the Ramsey sun yesterday was awful and I am mystified as to how Santos started at OT), but I would suggest that we do not allow our (understandable) anger cloud our judgement: it’s quite clear to me who at the club needs a massive kick up the arse.
Here’s hoping for victory through harmony at some point soon.
COYG
If there happens to be a big F5 button in the Emirates, someone really needs to go in there now and press it.
The whole club has become devoid of energy. The manager has become devoid of ambition. The fans have become devoid of hope.
The next step? The club will become devoid of fans.
If our manager can’t find that button, then I’m afraid we need one who can.
Just back drank there,and I’m calling the barman to change my pint! π on a brighter note talk of arsene blowing 30mil on cavani,Theo entering into fresh talks and me getting breakfast in bed things are looking better,great to see some new drinkers in the bar hopefully we get a result next week and they all come back again π
This is a divided club as the Owner, Usmanov, Board, Chairman, Chief Executive and Manager all divide opinion. I don’t see any resolution in the short to medium term.
On the pitch, we had a similar problem when all our full backs were out injured last season.
We are reliant on attacking fullbacks for our system to work. Theo is half the player when Sagna is not playing.
TV5 is at best a mediocre left-back with no pace or attacking invention. He barely got into a forward sprint yesterday and the interplay between him and Poldi was turgid. The LFG is a much better player when Gibbs is playing as he plays further inside and makes room for Gibbs to provide the width and pace.
Giroud came good yesterday and it is now a matter of the team learning to put good early crosses in for him.
Le Coq had a disappointing first half and I think the manager has to take some responsibilty for a lack of tactical inflexibility. Teams have worked out that Arteta nearly always receives the first pass from the defence and Le Coq couldn’t position himself to receive the second pass. He was barely in the game for much of the same half. Perhaps if Arteta and the other central midfielder took turns in being the first receiver then it would be harder for the opposition to press Arteta. That seemed to be the case with Song and Arteta last season.
I hate to say this but I actually enjoyed the game and wasn’t feeling as pissed off yesterday evening as I should have. There is no longer any surprise to see a two goal league squandered or that we have a team that made Ruiz or Berbatov look world class. It was a piece of inconsequential theatre that subscribers of Star Sports in Indonesia and Malaysia would have loved watching for the drama.
Perhaps the club has helped manage my expectations by providing a first team squad that cannot contend for the League or Champions League. At least I can enjoy the rest of the season for a few dramatic games, a Capital One Final appearance and the battle for 4th place.
I suppose the defining question of Wenger’s current stock and worth is when a managerial vacancy comes up at Barcelona, Real, PSG, Chelsea, Man Utd, Citeh, Bayern, the two Milan clubs or Juventus, which of them would make him an offer he could not refuse to join them?
Our record signing is Arshavin at Β£16 million.
Manchester United have signed (14) Ferdinand, Berbatov, Veron, Rooney, Van Persie, Nani, Anderson, Carrick, Hagreaves, Van Nistelrooy, De Gea, Phil Jones, Ashley Young and Dwight Yorke for AS MUCH OR MORE than our RECORD signing.
Chelsea have signed (20) Shevchenko, Torres, Hazard, Drogba, Anleka, Essien, Oscar, Wright-Phillips, Makele, Luiz, Carvalho, Mata, Malouda, Damien Duff, Crespo, Mikel Obi, Ramires, Zhirkov, Bosingwa, Mutu for AS MUCH OR MORE than our RECORD signing.
Man City have signed (16) Tevez, Yaya Toure, Robinho, Aguero, Dzeko, Nasri, Balotelli, David Silva, De Jong, Jo, Lescott, Adebayor, Santa Cruz, Milner Kolarov, and Javi Garcia for AS MUCH OR MORE than our RECORD SIGNING.
Danny and N7, cheers for your kind words.
Jez: PSG tried to get Arsene as late as last summer (i.e. 2011) but he wasn’t interested.
Lars. I know PSG wanted him then, but would they still want him if Ancelotti left?
Trev – Despite all the poo that’s floating around, did you at least get to enjoy what looked to be a highly entertaining game? Is an entertaining draw the new sixth trophy for Arsenal?
Lars – First world problems indeed. Perpsective like that can help to dull the Arsenal pain.
Esso – Very sad to see such a loyal supporter driven to a post like that. The all to regular in-fighting, moaning and bitching is a constant pain in the ar*e and helps to drain the joy out of going to matches.
This is no fun at all…
Only watched it on a stream but it wasn’t that entertaining. It’s not often I’d agree with Danny Mills, but on the radio commentary he said the game only got going after the sixth goal, and he was right.
I shouldn’t worry about anyone declaring they are off, or thinking of not going any more, you hear it all the time from lots of people, usually many times over a long period, and they don’t stop going.
QPR 1pm aboute 7 or 8 ‘holics in; no arsebloggers.
Fulham 1pm: no ‘holic at all; until after the game when snowy turned up.
Anyway, still got a massive headache, sadly not alcohol-related.Not football-related either, just that the battering my immune system must have taken in Schalke turned into a sort of cold.
Better things next week hopefully.
Agree, Nonny,despite the score then, the game wasn’t entertaining until the score got to 3-2 more or less.
@130True Storey
Cheers for that mate. I’m trying to fight it but finding it harder and harder. Anyways lets hope we can all crack away on the beano next saturday!
Ollie hope you feel better for next Saturday.
Cheers, Esso
Very nicely put, ‘holic. Pretty much my thoughts exactly. This season could get very ugly indeed both on and off the pitch and I, too, have concerns about Arsene’s health.
OK, so now we know the club tried to sign a keeper in the summer:
http://news.arseblog.com/2012/11/julio-cesar-confirms-arsenal-approach/
Bollocking hell, Looting Town FC a goal up at Middle Eastlands after a bit of a clanger by Joe Hart.
Lars, It bounced pretty hard against his chest, but he must feel bad about it. Your link about Cesar is a reminder that none of us is privy to everything AFC does behind the scenes, to make our team stronger.
Precisely my point, abb. Like I read in a blog somewhere the other day: absense of evidence is not evidence of absense.
Great post ‘H. On the money I’m afraid.
That fence is gonna get creakier still, what with all the arses perched on it. Room for a little one?
I can’t disagree with anything you say (well perhaps apart from the black scarf bit). I remember you mentioning in the summer that Arsene looked ill. I don’t know about that, but he certainly looks worn out. And who wouldn’t be? Battling his own Board (maybe), walking an ever more precarious tightrope between the Board and his mate Dein, battling oil money, battling players, and battling a voluble and significant section of support. Who the fuck wouldn’t be worn out? Yogi wrote after the Utd game that the performance had the smell of an end of an era. One hopes against hope that Arsene can yet turn it round, but it’s difficult to disagree with Yogi.
As for the black scarfers, you make some very good points, though I’m not perhaps as convinced as you that their aims are all that laudable. I will concede that that is due in major part to my own ignorance of what they stand for. If they are protesting at the increasing corporatisation of football, then I’m guessing that there would be few dissenters. That that message gets lost amongst the white noise of Sack the Board, Sack the Manager etc is down to them. If they wish to be taken seriously, their first responsibility is to get a clear and cogent message out there. In my opinion they have failed to do that. They could also do with toning down the blatant opportunism. What kind of bitter soul is interested in marching against The Arsenal on the day that the proper cunts come to town? Not me. Not then, not ever.
As for the football yesterday, perhaps another post, but kudos to TS, Derrick and others for even daring to mention it.
Off for a proper back-drink now, but I couldn’t help reading Lars and N7 on the way through. Gentlemen, my cap is doffed.
Hey there Tabs. Will read your post now. Lars, that’s a great quote!
Diary of a Dad-man,
Get me off this crazy….plane.
1 car ride 2 flights 1 train and a bit of walking and we are here.
Already walked around the emirates. Picture of the kids with TH14.
Weather is actually quite nice.
6 jet lagged people now looking for food.
Despite the 5 year old asking if we were there yet about 20 times. Not a bad voyage so far.
Cheers all.
Partly back drunk now.
Derrick @105 and kasby @108 – excellent posts.
Very interesting stuff from kasby, which we all instinctively know, but an ‘eye witness’ report is compelling.
Back to read Lars onwards now.
Lars, excellent.
Tabs, N7 usual good stuff.
TS – actually it was not very enjoyable.
As a neutral it would doubtless have been great fun.
If you walk into a door frame and bang your head once, you might share the joke with your accompanying bunch of mates.
When you’ve repeatedly walked into the same door frame and banged your head for six years, the fun kind of wears off.
Mass hysteria is also a very powerful force, and a stadium full of 60,000 – oh yes it was, it’s official. ;). – frustrated, angry fans tends to take it’s toll too, however optimistic you try to remain.
Many now seem to be blaming Arsene for the current state of affairs on the pitch but one has to put alot of blame squarely on the players shoulders. There appears to be a loss of the collective responsibility and coordinated solidity in play as witnessed early on in the season (that is why we are now so poor defensively). That desire to win the ball back quickly with high- energyvhas gone missing completely and even for someone who we say is tired, Santi is the only one who is still closing down regularly without much support. The players are to blame in their now apparent lethargy in movement and why that is now happening has to be laid firmly at their doors more so than the coaching staff. 2-0 leads are not lost by the management throughout the course if the match but my players who are playing as individuals rather than a collective. That is our current problem in a nutshell!
Just look at what even the LWCs are doing and what the Chavs and the Scousers will do later. It’s quite embarrassing!
DanC – i have a bit to write on the responsibility theme, but I have to do some mum visiting this afternoon, so it may be tomorrow now.
Feckin get in there! Now that’ll do us very nicely feck-you very much!
Adebayor is everywhere! Go ahead son, pour your heart out. Get yourself good and tired. Hey, when he does something naughty, he always smiles π
I look forward to that Trev and I’m glad that something that has been the foundation of most of our problems for the past 7 years is not being over-looked by one of the regulars! It should now be clear to all that these players di chiose to taje responsibikuty and pkay when they want to or need to. Ref: LWCs at the Ems last term and Reading in the Capital-One Cup. Enjoy mumsy time!
He is not smiling now…good boy π
Lots of typo’s in that last post, damn you IPad; you’ve become as unreliable as TV5! π
Hey @152 π DanC, what typos? π
Official Assessment of The Tiny Totts today: Friedel, strong showing. Ade was prominent and entertaining π Bale, save for one suberb strike and a blistering run, was impotent. Dempsey, non existent. A mixed bag, our next opponents. We CAN destroy them!
Hey Abbs! π
The wons ubove! Damned it! I’m way too out of touch for this trchnologie malarkey!
Come on the Scousers! 5 behind the Chavs won’t be a bad weekend after all!
Hey DanCE, with you on that! C’mon Liverpool! Oh to be a gooner π Wouldn’t trade my Club for any other, and that’s a FACT π
abb, Bale does increasingly look like a player who knows he won’t be there next season, apart from two or three occasions today he looked quite disinterested in what was going on. There was none of that constant running that his game is built upon. I honestly don’t think it is impossible that there is already a deal in place for him to move to Real Madrid next season.
Lars, Yes he did look apathetic. He’s a terrific athlete (he could play in the NFL, cause he would make a great QB). Maybe Modric’s departure sapped his will and focus. Good for us, if true.
Of all the mugs to score for Chelsea, why does it have to be JT π
Not sure on the bale thing there’s plenty of rumours that his knees fucked and he won’t pass a stringent medical anywhere how much truth there’s in that I don’t know, Massive weekend ahead the flanks are where the game will be won or lost- Let’s hope for a good day as a bad performance and result does not bear thinking about.
Up The Arse !
As things stand i.e. if The Spammers beat The Toon:
WHUFC
LWCs
The Arse
Fulham
When was the last time that happened?
Still 1-0 in The Racist Derby….
Bordeaux 2-0 up, nearly three just now.
TS, JT injured by Suarez (albeit inadvertently). The irony is not lost on me.
Hey Ollie, that’s some good cheer for you π Just don’t jinx them π
Afternoon all, fed and watered. Time to crash out in front of the racist derby.
Allez les Girondins π
Hi Holic ! π
3-0, looking good now.
Hello ‘holic.
4-0
Stevie Geeeeeeeeeeeeee knackered now.
Suarez evens it up. Very ironic.
It’s good when you can bring on Bellion and Ben Kaillfailure with 10 minutes to go and not be worried.
If Liverpool win 2-1 and Sahin scores, I’ll be loaded.
I had bet on them to win 2-1, a bet on Suarez to get their first goal, a bet on Sahin to score any goal and a Liverpool to win by any score.
Come on….
Shit, they took Sahin off while I was cooking π
Nonny, Sahin was subbed a while back. Good thought though, sure would help us π
Nothing can help us
π
Ah, That’s our Nonny π
Another clean sheer, 4-0 up. Wish that could inspire Arsenal too.
Marseille at home next, could be Barton’s league debut (his suspension ends)
sheet, even
heh, typical, Nonny. Sorry to hear you won’t be a millionaire.
You bugger, Enrique.
Still, one successful bet in four is better than usual
Afternoon All
There was a time when a 2-0 lead meant 3 points in the bag. No one around me felt at all confident that we were home and dry yesterday.
It was just another stressful afternoon at The Grove, capped by the pen miss.
We only got going after we equalised at 3-3. Where was the energy and drive earlier in the game? Did the players think they had done enough after Poldi,s strike? I honestly don’t know what to make of our malaise, surely the loss of Gibbs and Diaby isn’t the sole reason for our collapse in form.
I don’t think we are a very happy ship at present . The captain and the crew seem to be operating at cross purposes and we are listing heavily to starboard. Whilst I don’t think there is any danger of sinking, I do think repairs need to be made and fast to prevent further damage being done.
There was a sombre crowd on the 17.45 home, all long standing fans and other than myself ,season-ticket holders. When these loyal fans decide not to bother with the NLD, then we are in real trouble. I just hope my investment of Β£90+ is going to be worth it!
The only shining light yesterday was Giroud, who worked his socks off in defence as well as attack, a pity some of the others didn’t follow his example.
As always COYRs
Great stuff as ever Tabs. I must admit to having problems witht the black scarfers if only becuase of the points that ‘holic outlined in the blog. Your point that they lack a coherent message is an excellent one. They now include the likes of John Lydon as active suppoprters, so their influence is growing.
Me? I’d just like a few pints and a good old fashioned punch piss up like the old days.
Really hope we can all get together for that next Saturday. Might be my last trip for a while.
Good points Holic, Lars, N7 Trev and tabs. A quick backdrink precludes acknowledgement of all. I might get time later.
March AGAINST the Arsenal at the NLD? FFS you have to be kidding?
I am as perplexed as the next man about the gradual diffusion of talent, drive, steel, desire and courage but am under no illusion that that will return through the simple replacement of AW by A.N. Other.
We look firmly midtable as Holic observed and without a lot of work at Colney and an injection of talent and character I can’t see that changing.
At this point in time I can’t think about next Saturday π
Delia @ 183
Spot on, Giroud was the glimmer of hope on Saturday.
For those that struggle to use Google. Or are too lazy.
http://www.wherehasourarsenalgone.co.uk/
I still have not plucked up the courage to watch motd.
I watched our bit, Didn’t watch the other games. We didn’t look as bad as I expected us to. But at the end of the day the draw was the right result and it didn’t show the long periods of midfield domination that they had (Fulham at our place FFS?). but it did show that Mannone was culpable for the first and probably also for the second. He’s OK, but he won’t win us the Premiership.
On the button Esso, as usual mate.
I share your current disquiet. I can’t really be bothered any more to write about all the shit that surrounds the Club at the moment. Anybody that comes on here regularly will know my views inside out, and anybody who doesn’t, will, I’m sure, be able to live without them.
Plenty of questions at the moment, but anyone who pretends to know the answers, whether it be Arsene out/ Arsene’s the best, Board out, Board in, R&W in, blah blah blah is really just pissing in the wind. It’s the certainty with which some people choose to express themselves, when nobody really has a Scooby, that bugs me, whatever side of the divide they’re on.
What I do think is that no Club can just potter on for ever when different groups, whether it be at Board level or amongst the fanbase, are rowing in different directions. That’s why it seems like an end to an era to me. I think Arsene will walk. I also think we will all rue the day that it ever got to this, but that’s just my view.
I’ll look forward to that pint, a chinwag and roaring the boys home against “that lot”. Bottom line is that when push comes to shove that’s all that counts.
Trev – cheers for the kind ones and right back at yer.
Abb @142 And hello to you too π
Bath, Cheers. Mannone wouldn’t win you the Championship let alone the Premiership π
Tabs, as ever, spot on mate.
The poison is oozing from the boardroom all the way to the dressing room.
I fully agree that it feels like an era drawing slowly, even staggering, to close.
We will look back at this as a golden age, I have no doubt.
The man has overachieved when the outlay on players is considered. No-one, bar no-one could have done better.
There is no quick fix.
As Terry Pratchet said, “I would much rather be amongst those who are seeking the truth than amongst those who have already found it.”
Indeed , Bath, indeed. Nice quote.
Tabs. Spot on. The reality frustrating thing though is that it all so unnecessary.
Vito could not keep pigeons. How would we expect him to keep goal?
Bath nips the ball off the opposition centre forward’s toe in the 6 yard box., flicks it up, onto thigh, head, other thigh then flicks it calmly out to the right side with a quick glance back at Vito who stands rooted to his line.
Might have to give it one more night before I can brave it Bath.
Seriously, we didn’t look as bad on the highlights as it felt in real time. The pundits were actually quite kind.
tabs, well spoken@190. And that goes for bath@192 as well.
Sets up the shot…
Hit it hard
lurking
Agreed Steve, always fine margins. Can’t help feeling that the last 5 years would have been oh so different had we made that breakthrough in 07-08. We were pretty close.
As it is, we’re now being told to hang on until 2014 when the commercial deals are up for grabs. I don’t buy it I’m afraid. If the current owner was really interested, what about an interest free loan to bridge the gap?
Gives Mannone a slap just to make sure he’s still awake and hoofs the ball back to Bath.
Edison Cavani anyone?
Ah, too late even for my usual glory spot. Things really are bad π
Well in Bath.
Well in, bath!
Cavani? Like a shot Bath.
Cheers Lars.
Great set up, Lars. Thanks mate.
Tabs – that’s absolutely bang on. Great post.
But we never even looked like pushing on from that did we? All the sides that have consistently done well have done so with the gradual integration of new players. There is seldom any massive overhaul, just minor tinkering. We have not done that. We have relied on others not being good enough.
It is not that long ago that we challenged for the title. Now we all think that 4th is about as much as we can hope for.
It is the knock on effect that worries me. All I hear is talk of new commercial ventures being our saviour. Are we going to demand top dollar if we are on the decline and can’t offer champions lge football? All of a sudden BTM’s proposed domination of the Asian markets seems further away than ever.
Cavani??????? Very much yes please. Sadly I can’t see it in a million years.
Cavani indeed, Bath. Well taken. Lurking sometimes doesn’t pay off. Shitty weekend I must say in almost all fronts. If that Enrique shot went home, I would be loaded too.
Can’t disagree Steve. Seems to me we’re in a vicious spiral, some of it of our own making, and some of it due to factors beyond our control.
I am not convinced that anyone has the foggiest as to how to get out of it at the mo.
I almost forgot. At least “the table’s first team” is still the table’s first team of the Happy Train You Ropey League. So, recover yourselves fellows, it is cold here on top π
Cheers N7
Cavani is magic, but if we want to spend that cash I’d rather some of it went on left back and def mid. An out and out left winger who can swing a cross would be nice too.
Giroud and Poldi can both play up top and will grab us goals. Cavani would be a step up, but there are areas in greater need.
I am inclined to agree N7. Not sure we are in a state where one marquee signing can transform this team and its group mindset.
Fully agree Steve T @209. We never seemed to buy the next big player when we were at the top, the signing to take us up to the next level and to give the team a gee up and a bit more competition. Well, those days are past. It’s not a tummy tuck and a facelift we need, it’s an organ transplant and a new limb.
Agree with all at 214, 215 and 216. The days of us being “two players short” have disappeared over the hill. A marquee signing would give us and the place a temporary lift, but the problems go deeper I think.
Cavani would be perfect in May, instead of Podolski. The same salary, 15-20 mil. more. He can play central, or at the left side of attack, powerful shot, strong in the air, full of tricks in the box, just perfect. We would have shown ambition, RVP would have stayed, and we would be top of the PL.
At this time, I don’t see him coming.
Cavani would have been perfect in May, sorry.
RVP was never going to stay. Please dont pretend he was.
He left to get a better salary than we had already offered him. There was absolutely no other reason. At all.
Don’t fully agree Esso. Money was definitely a major factor. However, if we had been competitive in the previous seasons and won things I think the contract may well have been signed long before. The fact is, we will never know. FACT.
I don’t think the situation is irreversible. Far from it. But it does require action. The head in the sand tactic is valid no more. Signings have to be quality and not quantity. Move on those players that clearly won’t be good enough for as long as they have a hole in their arse. Drastic but backs with project youth. More emphasis on the youngsters coming through the academy and not some 16 year old wonder kid that will end up costing a small fortune and never get a work permit. We also need a firm statement of intent. Leadership from the very top. One of my main gripes is that those in charge of our club seem to take us as fools. That grates with me.
A couple of real top quality signings in Jan will go some way to re addressing the balance. Let’s see if the board have finally grasped that.
CUT backs with project youth even…..
βI would much rather be amongst those who are seeking the truth than amongst those who have already found it.β
Sage words to recall indeed, bath.
Can’t bring myself to think about the NLD either at the moment. The thought of those leering, dribbling, godforsaken, pikey faces at 12:45 next Saturday is making me feel that I need to take refuge in The Quackery.
Their f*ckin’ trainers & TV stealing fans are even worse.
Can’t we petition the w*nkers in the boardroom to play this one behind closed doors at London Colney?
Now there’s an idea…
Up The Arse everyone but especially…. oh who the f*ck cares?
@ #220 Spot on. It may well not have been all about money but I am convinced that he decided a long time ago that he was was moving on regardless.
On the positive front, really pleased for Giroud. He looked like a real player yesterday. Basically, he’s 2.5 Chamakh’s without the shisha.
TS@225 – there is an idea. I would feel happier about that.
abb
JT injured by Suarez the beaver?
Did he call him a liberal or something?
Have been licking my wounds since yesterday. Best not to post in that condition. Still a fan of AW but he needs to get real about the situation at left-back and in defensive midfield.
I love Gibbs, but he’s fragile and I think we will be lucky to see him play another 15 games this season – hope I’m wrong. Santos doesn’t cut it for me in the Prem so we need a Premiership-standard left back who’s robust. I’d even accept Leighton Baines. A left back who can cross the ball would be great for Ollie.
Same goes for Diaby. Read somewhere that his first French trainer said he was an incredible talent but he injured easily. Plus Γ§a change …
We are missing the physical presence that Song provided in midfield. Some have said he was no good and they were glad he went, but if he’s no good, why did BarΓ§a buy him? We need someone to get the ball back, hold it and lay it off – Arteta’s trying to do too much. And Frimpong’s temperament rules him out for me.
So that’s what I hope for in the January sales.
But my glass is still decidedly half full. Just have to pick myself up again for Saturday. Jack will be back.
I remain open-minded on some of the things the BSM have to say but I’m probably listening with my arms folded.
However, to organise a ‘walk’ on the day of the NLD is incredibly poor timing from my perspective.
Airing our dirty linen in front of the children of Looting Town? I don’t like the sound of that. Don’t they have enough to taunt us with at the moment?
How about a silent march to London Colney or Highbury House on a Monday morning when it’s p*ssing down with rain and there’s no cameras nearby?
Oh TS ! π
TS. Did you check out the link at 74? Should bring back some memories.
dkg
Two things
1/ Baines is a very decent full-back. There’s no ‘even’ about it but I can never see a a decent premiership club selling one of their top players to a rival. What?….oh….
2/Missing Song for retaining possesion? Have you been hanging around the CMC?
Steve T
Haha! I had a similar exchange about that on Twatter earlier today. One of my teenage faves mate.
Beat That! π
Play the Spuds behind closed doors??????? Behave. Time to man up boys. This is the Spuds we are talking about. Once more unto the breach dear friends……..
Let battle commence.
Steve T
First you take me back to my care-free, teenage years then you tell me to man-up for a bunch of c*nts.
Make your bloody mind up π
We can man up Steve T.
But are there enough fellas with balls taking the field?
When God ask Arsenal fan : Tell me what you did bad in your life .
Arsenal fan : My kid is messy , I beat him and sometimes I kick the dog out of frustration .
God : Anything else ?
Arsenal fan : I am an Arsenal fan , I swear a lot .
God : Arsenal fan ? you must suffered a lot , well , for this , I dispense you your time in purgatory .
Then , God tell St Peter to open the heaven for the Arsenal fan
TS. Time for action. Not time for Maybe Tomorrow. ( although that is one of my favourite tracks ever).
The answer to that Bath is I don’t know. All I know is that we must not be found wanting.
Where has this talk of a walk on derby day originated?
It is on the day of the Swansea game.
Nobody is daft enough to point the guns inwards when the swamp-dwellers come down the road.
Nobody?
But very glad to hear it.
Cheers Holic.
Holic, you’re on Conduit Duty for the Backchannels, Me & Ollie please regarding the NLD π
Steve T @ 235 (and various other posts) is on the mark.
This is the NLD. No time for faint hearts, on or off the pitch. Personally, I plan to turn up with the fucking war paint on, and even if we find ourselves a couple of goals down will be giving it full “We’re gonna win 5-2”.
Home advantage has to count for something and we need to get behind the lads for the full 90 plus stoppage. Whatever’s going on behind the scenes that’s the only thing we can really do as supporters that is guaranteed to help.
Theo out of the England squad. Hope he is fit to play Saturday.
Lars. N7.
You fellas are on it. Bravo.
Another thing my mate the Everton fan and i talked about – that they always start out the year crap. Moyes cobbles together a new squad virtually every year and it takes 4 months to gel. By then the ship is lost.
Careful, he says to me. Your lot are lookin like your in the same boat.
Just that Everton has managed to keep their talent lately. Anyway, enough with the selling of our best players for the financial gain. Thats what we used to call in the midwest eating your seed corn. Dreadful management. And that is surely NOT AW’s call. Board must be to blame.
Oh and while were at, someone find Dein senior’s boy and … Well … Tell him to bugger off. Total parasite. Or more specifically, keep his greedy mits out of Asrenals dressing room.
And no. I would not replace AW with moyes. Not ever. Much as inrespect him Hes a poor mans AW.
Cheers.
Ta for correction H and good to know π³
*marches himself to the naughty step for even suggesting that we could play The NLD behind closed doors*
Actually, the timing is a great opportunity for manager and fans to bond again and for the team to ditch this horrible funk that has enveloped us since Narch away.
COYRRRs
Big day yesterday on two counts.
I’m just back from some splendid fly casting on the Shenandoah on a spectacular day under the Blue Ridge on the kind of sunlit tapestry that only Virginia can paint.
Grandson (Henry 14) made his debut at The Emirates with his daddy and, in the kind of excited terms that only a five year old can muster reeled off euphorically and breathlessly “Goonersaurus picked me up, I was only four rows back from Theo, I saw six goals – three at my end and Arteta missed a penalty or we would have won easily 4-3. It was brilliant!”
I’ve just watched the game. Really entertaining stuff and a fantastic first game for my Junior Gunner. Olivier Giroud is his new hero and mine too. That boy is going to be great. Proud. And yes, I agree, we need to brush up our defending and I’m hoping that Henry Ace will see that progression over the next 50 years.
But wait, there’s blood on the tracks? Our worst start for 30 million years apparently? Shit. We must be bottom of the league FFS! I’d better go and slit my wrists. What? We’re only two home wins off fourth? And that’s our worst start since dinosaurs roamed the earth? I’ll take it. Most of the other teams in the league have been relegated in that time.
“Put the Wilkinson Sword back in the medicine cabinet, Her Nellieness. We’ll finish fourth and win one trophy this year. No, sorry love. I can’t guarantee you a ticket for the final at Wembley. Henry Ace, his daddy and me have first dibbs on the three I have retained”.
Go on them, barman, if you insist. The Glenfiddich will do quite nicely.
Tabs @190, et al.
You mention the end of an era, and I think you are dead right. Whether that turns out to be financial or managerial remains to be seen, but something has to change. Not just ‘should’ change, it really has to.
I was told by a shareholder last week that Arsenal shares are now trading at over Β£16,000 each. So where from there?
To increase share value the team has to improve in order to raise it’s profile as ‘kasby’ demonstrated earlier. That now requires proper investment and a major restructuring of the squad. Whether by way of a bank loan until our ‘fabulous’ new commercial deals kick in, or loan from the owner. Without those improvements it is hard to see how we are going to secure these ‘huge new deals’.
If the team doesn’t improve it would seem safe to assume that Arsenal as a brand will also decline, smartly followed by the share price.
If that is to be the case, and Kroenke’s interest is purely a business one, then surely he will sell while the share price is still at it’s peak.
Whichever is the case, the ‘self sustaining’ model is surely dead.
The model has thus far been sustained, not by itsself, but by the fans and, even more fundamentally, by player sales, which have accounted for a huge majority of any profits the club has made.
The cupboard is now though, sadly, bare. We do not have any more players that anyone will pay Β£25 million pounds for, so another way will have to be found.
Which way will it go ?
That’s the one none of us, as you mentioned Tabs, can answer.
But change it must.
I will now retire swiftly into AL’s camp and wait for someone who knows what they are talking about to come and trash my argument.
Btw, welcome NorCal. Shame you have arrived in such uncertain times.
Btw 2, Bath, thanks for your kind words, and the usual good stuff from yourself.
BtM,
Glad you had a chance to dip your flies in the river.ma few of us could have done with a cooling off opportunity like that at 5.00pm yesterday.
Afraid that six years of defensive incompetence have now blunted the boyish enthusiasm a bit.
ruver.ma = river. A few
iPad is a nightmare to type quickly on π
Hey…. I don’t mind Henry going to the CL Final BtM but surely I can come to see us win the League Cup at least ?
BtM,
Nicely expressed, as ever, and as ever the optimist. π
Trev,
Can’t argue with much of what you say.
Our financial model has well and truly reached it’s crossroads. If it is to be taken to the next stage of sustainable income generation that is to truly challenge the very big boys on the commercial level, success on the pitch must be witnessed soon or the AFC brand’s significance in the football and sporting market will decline in a manner so unthinkable that in order to reclimb, the paradoxical procurement of more debt will most certainly be necessary to bring in playing staff that will once again attract the commercial investment.
I perhaps disagree with one point you make in that we probably do still have at least two potential 20+million assets on our current books (Jack & the Ox) but, thankfully, the person or persons that have allowed our previous prize assets to depart won’t be able to cash in on these lads for several seasons until they have matured – the model will be on life-support before then!
All of this, in summary, means that something else will have to give to ensure sustainability of our current financial model, and that invariably will have to finally come in the form of trophy-winning success on the pitch to encourage investment in our brand from the big-spending corporates. If this does not happen this term, i fear that justifying the vast prices that will continue to be illogically charged against a brand that is clearly inferior when compared to others in the same market-place, and expecting from those that are already devoted religiously to keep sustaining it regardless, will just not be sufficient in any way or measure of comprehension.
Hard times are now here for the board and they, and the manager (whom I feel more and more sorry for with every dry season as he clearly is devoted to the cause), have to make some very brave and pragmatic decisions this year, more so than last year, as the other brands in this year’s market-place have rebranded in a rather more attractive and purchase-friendly manner to all the consumers in the global village!
A return to our free-flowing, flamboyant and mercurial style of attacking play against the LWCs, our mantra under Arsene, would be a wonderful way to start rebuilding the brand! Edinson Cavani and a couple of “tricky-tricksters” in January wouldn’t be a miss either! COYBG!
Unpleasant questions needed to be asked seasons ago but nobody had the balls its no good them being asked now its to late the damage has been done.
Good stuff fellas. DanC, please elaborate on just what would be these ‘brave and pragmatic’ decisions, you refer to. When you have time π
A point I meant to make earlier about Arteta’s penalty miss: It is churlish to criticise him for taking it when all season we have been calling for senior players to step up and show leadership and responsibility which is what Arteta was showing by coming forward to take that kick.
We also need to be clear what it means to run the club at a loss, for that is what abandoning the self-sustaining model means, certainly in the short run. It means putting the club at the pleasure of a rich man who is prepared to cover the losses so the operating expenses — paying players, buying and selling new ones etc — are covered. Such a person has to be cash rich, like Mansoor at Citeh or Abramovich at Chelsea, and not in hock to their bankers like Hicks and Gillett were at Liverpool and may be the Glazers are at ManU. Or, perish the thought, as happened at Rangers, Leeds Utd and Portsmouth. Such people will always be at the mercy of the fortunes of their other businesses. The commodities hedge fund business of Liverpool’s owner, John Henry, is going through a rough time. I doubt he will be dipping deeply into his pocket for Liverpool just now. Even Kronke’s property businesses have been slowed by the Great Recession and Slow Recovery in the U.S. Mansoor and Abramovich may be so rich they can ride out the downturns. Abramovich has just written off Β£167 million pounds of his loans to Chelsea by turning them into equity, which, as he owns the club anyway, is effectively writing them off. But the nagging question remains what happens to Chelsea or Man City when the moneybags get bored, go away or get taken away?
Trev@249
“The cupboard is now though, sadly, bare. We do not have any more players that anyone will pay Β£25 million pounds for…”
That times 2 sir.
Seriously worrying times when we clearly have no “super, super quality” players left, even though they are all we apparently sign these days.
Steve T@Lots!
Steve, thanks for the kind words and support. Truth be told, I can’t stand to see the two-faced Rotter in the picnic blanket for one second – makes me feel physically sick – but I cannot totally blame him for it either.
Better job with better chances of success for twice as much money? Who wouldn’t end up inside a little boy…
Oh, hold on…;)
Everyone@Pretty much all the drinks
So much sense being made out of the chaos that it is, as always, refreshing to hide, tail between the legs style, for a while and then return, do a bit of back-drinking and put it all into perspective once again.
Although, for once, that perspective seems to be a fairly sobering one.
All in all, and this is the only way we all get through this, whichever side of the splintery fence we choose to find ourselves on, the next game is the one that counts…
Rip those Lilly White Cnuts a new one and all will be forgiven…
Well, except for buying Jeffers of course! π
NBN, nice post @ 257
But in answer to your question, I think some other rich cunt like Abramovich or Sheikh Ali Baba will buy those clubs. There is no shortage in this world for people of two kinds
1. People who are rich
2. People who are cunts
Chelsea and City have become global brands now and someone or the other will be stupid enough to buy the clubs just based on their brand value
NBNed@257
Surely the main responsibility of the senior players is to the team and not to the ego? He took that penalty in a fit of revenge-seeking foolhardiness and threw two points down the drain doing so.
Giroud, if not two or three others, should have simply been handed the ball by that senior player and told to get the job done.
What actually happened was a player hardly renowned for either his goalscoring or his penalty-taking skills allowed himself to be blinded by the chance to atone for his own personal mistakes when his only thought should have been to ensure the best chance of getting the three points for the TEAM.
OK, put it this way…
What would SAF have done if Arteta had done the same for his team?
Would he even have taken the penalty himself?
And before we answer that one, let’s remember that SAF gave his players a slating in the press after BEATING us without even trying whilst Wenger lamented like a fecking poet about our missing mojo or similar after getting beaten EASILY by the worst ManU team in a decade.
He sounds more like Cantona every day. Scary stuff!
NBNed@257 (again!)
Just wanted to add that I agree 100% with the rest of your post. Great stuff there.
What I would like to see from Arsenal Football Club is that we compete. Even with this squad, we could compete on a football pitch against the likes of City, Chelsea, Utd et al.
Look at Dortmund. They are a poorer club than us, but they have won their league twice in a row beating Bayern Munich(who have much greater resources than them).
May be the German league is not as competitive, but it’s quite an achievement nonetheless
They have just shown Man Shitteh and Real Madrid what they can do
I really believe we can compete, if only our manager is a bit braver in the transfer market and more flexible in tactics. Also if our players could just give a fuck!
harsha@259
That was a bit harsha than necessary π
Rearrange the following to form a phrase…
Coat I’ll me get
π
Arteta is/was the side’s designated penalty taker. He stood up to take it. I have no criticism of him. At all.
Abbs @256,
The “brave and pragmatic” decisions I refer to are as follows:
1. Purchasing, nurturing and retaining our internationally recognisable players at their true market and commercial value;
2. Re-playing our internationally renowned-brand of entertaining and mercurial football and;
3. Genuinely showing the intent to compete for and win all major trophies both at home and abroad.
All these points have one primary objective that cannot be ignored in the all too competitive and commercialised global village that we all now live in; to preserve and build on the viability of the Arsenal brand in its current “sustainable” guise so that what has been built over the past 7 years, and envied by many all over the world, is fully optimised and fully recouped.
One can argue with some vigour that our current crop of players are not as attractive or as much of a draw to a commercial and international-viewing audience as in recent years, but one thing that has never changed in the mind of the masses is that they always play in the “beautiful” Arsenal-way like no other team can. Worryingly though, that now is under considerable threat as other clubs have entered our realm of the “beautiful game” and are adopting and evolving our style of play yet again, as occurred in the early Arsene era when he changed the face of British football, with even more entertaining pace and directness in the true EPL brand (Ref. the Chavs at immense expense; and Swansea, Wigan and the LWCs at far less).
If we are not careful, the commercial brand of “beautiful football” that we have given the EPL, will soon no longer be our bastion alone and I fear that these clubs will be more successful in optimising and benefitting from its considerable commercial value at the detriment of ours.
NBN @257,
Good point regarding Arteta taking responsibility, and from his reaction to the miss, he does truly care for the club. FYI too, with Podolski having been subbed-off, once again, before the end of the match, MA8 was the next designated penalty-taker.
On another point regarding the captaincy and having a truly visible leadership icon on the field of play, Arsene made a mistake, IMO, and should’ve made Arteta captain once the *Berk said he’d be feckin off. MA8’s been around the EPL far longer than TV5, the principles of leadership and responsibility on the pitch have been indoctrinated into him by Moyes at Everton, and his desire for success with us has been clearly evident both on and off the field of play since he came to our club. Dropping the out-of-form TV5 for a few matches, once Gibbs returns, and letting Arteta take the armband for a few matches might greatly help the individual and the collective in equal measure.
TW @260,
Arteta used to take all of the penalties and most of the free kicks for Everton before joining us. He was well within his rights and abilities to take the effort.
Dortmund are a great club to look at for a lesson or two, but they’re not really a fair point of comparison.
Essentially, they’re what we might look like if we didn’t have two packs of oil-drenched cnuts driving up wages, buying players to keep them out of the hands of their rivals and basically dicking up the league.
The Bundesliga is currently the best in Europe, pound for pound. And much more of a suitable environment for a well run club.
Indeed N7, indeed.
See, whenever I come here in the aftermath of an less than satisfactory result, there are so many articulate arguments for dual causes that I don’t know what to think anymore without contradicting myself! π
Good stuff from all (AKB, even till now π )
What Esso said @264.
No other bugger wanted it either.
Too right, baff. He was having a ‘mare, but at least he had the balls to take it.
We sang his name after he missed it.
If I was OG, I would have wanted it for the hat trick. I am very surprised and disappointed that he didn’t look at all interested. Especially after the great match he had.
There was a lot of discussion about that, baff. I thought his missed penalty against Coventry may have played a part, on top of the ‘penalty-takers order’….
bath, on the other hand – if Arteta is the designated taker and said he would take it then Giroud shall not interfere however much he would have wanted to take it. Interfering with the order of penalty taking is a cardinal sin in football, the only two people that can override the pre-determined order is the taker himself (but basically only if he is in pain and doesn’t feel he can kick properly) and the manager.
Like many others, I don’t blame Mikel one bit for stepping up and taking the pen. If I had been the manager, I would have stepped in and ordered Giroud to take it but then again had Arteta scored he would have been given a massive boost so while I think it was the wrong choice there were also a few good reasons for him to take it. And again, if he was the designated kicker then it is his responsibility to show leadership and take it.
“after getting beaten EASILY by the worst ManU team in a decade.”
I have to say I find this kind of comment rather strange and even a bit cliched. Worst team in a decade? Well, then the other 19 teams in the league must also be quite crap considering the fact that ManU are top of the league. They might not be stellar in all positions, but they have phenomenal attacking strength.
I guess a team that sticks rigidly to “pre-planned substitutions” when it has been blindingly obvious from the 15th minute that changes were needed, isn’t going to have the flexibility to hand the ball to the player who has just found his mojo.
Re the penalty. My impression was that Arteta was not the designated taker. Tete seemed to be some confusion after the award as to who would take it. I am wondering if the dedicated taker had already left the field? Poldi perhaps? Who knows, perhaps we just did not have a plan B should that situation arise? Now who would have thought that???????
π
The goal itself was lacking width, Steve T. π
Good morning from Drayton Park.
5 year old and jet lag do not mix well.
Sad that Arsenal and the supporters are in such turmoil for our visit. Questions that have needed to be answered for years are still left hanging.
I will stay firmly behind the team on the pitch. I will also hope these questions will be answered and corrected soon.
Morning holics. Hey NorCal, Just let yourself go a little bit. Your little one will pick up on your relaxed vibes and will chill out π May the spirit of Mary Poppins be with you π
Welcome to Europe, NorCal.
NorCal, hope your stay will be a good one! Will we be seeing you at the Tollie for Montpellier?
Olle@277: Ah, you’ve cracked it – that is what was wrong of course π
My thoughts entirely Ollie. Why does no one else get it????
π
Enjoy NorCal.
What Esso said at 264. Arteta is top man and doesn’t deserve any criticism for anything.
Not even his hair.
http://www.francefootball.fr/#!/news/2012/11/12/104808_va-et-aubameyang-petillent-lorient-sombre.html
Should we get some Corsican inspiration?
‘Alex Dupont’s men never use the handbrake’….
Nonny: ‘he’s got Lego hair but we don’t care’ ?
The only way I would want Giroud near that penalty is if Arteta chipped it into the air and he ran onto it to power it home with his head. Feet bad, head good.
π
I wonder if WestBrom at home is the first weekend home game that didn’t sell out in a day this season.
Still quite a few tickets left; go on, buy them so I can take my pick from Tx at a later date…. π
Don’t give it to these clichΓ©s though, Nonny: he only scored one headed goal in France last season.
He hit the post with a very good shot just before his second headed goal on Saturday, and brought out a great save from Schwarzer from a tremendous move and shot at 3-3.
I do love the idea of chip&head for a penalty though π
Aaaaaaaaaah!
Played trev @ 249 – can’t be arsed to back drink much further – am sure wise ones were writed by all the usuals
NBN @ 257 re the self-sustaining model – as the bar’s resident financial expert i think you said in the summer that for it to continue to work (pre the promised land of 2014) we needed to qualify for the quarter-finals or better (not something we do all that often, sadly) of the champs league and/or suck up some fairly unusually generous secondary sponsorship deals (something i don’t think we’ve done all that much of yet)?
If the above doesn’t happen and with the property portfolio pretty much sold up, the only other means of raising cash left open to the club that fits the self-sustaining remit is player sales then, is it not? Then back to what trev says @ 249: the club has sold most of its most sellable playing assets to many of those we would like to think of as our closest rivals in the past couple of seasons.
Of course no-one wants the club to risk bankrupcy, and sugar-daddyism has shortcomings most of us are well aware of.
So is there nothing the club can do to make it a wee bit more financially robust in the short-term, so that we don’t have to sell more talent we need to try to hold on to?
Psed – i would be happy to organize a sponsored drinkathon if anyone thought that would help. (Though be warned, if it happens you risk your own financial futures should you sponsor ‘holic and/or tabs.)
Trust you had a happy b’day w’kend with the management ‘h. I meself was whisked orf for a belated birthday w’kend of sun, sand (drizzle and pebbles actually) and second helpings – so only caught the big-game on the radio. Spose i’ll watch it on the player thingy later – maybes.
Anyway – the season is but young. There’s still time to turn it around – i think. I also think that i’ve never known so many good gooners think the opposite, already.
UREDS!
I think I’ll very soon be moving to the ‘running nose’ phase of the cold.
By all accounts, I think I’ll be right again just for next Saturday…
DanC, Thank you for such a detailed response. Your #1 would be our biggest challenge ( is this where pragmatic comes into play ?) Yes, probably so. That would help with #3 (brave !). Now #2, On the surface sounds easy enough, our style of play is not dictated by the Board. Arsene (and to a lesser extent Steve) have full reign there. The funny thing is, the very qualities that made Arsene so popular are now starting to work against him. Odd, isn’t it. He could help himself by just learning to bend with the wind. The Weeping Willow Tree, not the Mighty Oak, will weather the storm.
Interesting stuff @ 265 DanC (am slowly jumping about and backdrinking where i can) but skipping anything with the F word in it – innit.
And Ollie – am very, very sorry to hear about your runny nose
Cheers AL. It’s not too runny yet, at the moment it’s the throat that’s killing me.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20267305
Heh. Much better than Suarez T-shirts….
Ollie. I bet it runs quicker than Santos? Could your nose play left back?
Who nose, that might just be the answer? Unless it got injured of course, that would be a blow.
heh Steve T.
I wonder if Trev is around. A punfest now would be a breath of fresh air.
*sneezes, thus pushing the ball in the direction of the left wing*
And, as the 300 mark hoves into view, I absolutely REFUSE to indulge my inner lowest common denominator by indulging in a series of cheap, puerile and indeed downright vile, cold-themed gags (geddit!!!) – along the lines of – Ollie running all over the shop, dribbles towards the box (of hankies???) and fires off a long range snot that wipes out the oppos keeper.
I won’t do it i tells yer. I’m better than that. FACT.
Ollie nose!
Scores.
Well I could smell that goal coming all right.
What snot to love?
Well played Steve T @ 296 – seems you is quicker off the mark than me or Andre
And well in Ollie – a goal to lift the spirits (is it too early for that???) on a cold mondee afternoon
Might just be a bridge too far for Trev.
π
You may just have put your finger on it – Steve
Lars, tabs and N7 Gooner – right readable stuff from above – ta
It’s not a cold, Ollie, it’s MANFLU
Afternoon All,
Trev@249 – Good post mate. I agree that something has to give and that change, somewhere in the outlook/strategy of the Club, has to happen. Where I will depart from your piece, not as an expert but as a football fan who like your good self now finds that I have to be interested in accounts (yawn!), is where you say that “the self-sustaining model is surely dead”.
I think before we start pronouncing it’s passing we (the Club) need to first start utilising all its parts. Firstly, whatever the sum is that is sloshing around in the Rainy Day account needs to be spent on the core business of the Club. Secondly, the commercial appeal of Arsenal is massively under-utilised and undersold even if one forgets for the moment the big earners – the Kit deals for manufacturer and sponsor and the stadium naming rights.
If the proposed deal with Adidas is as reported, then it no better than par, (if that), and there are people at Arsenal in their commercial sector earning big bucks under false pretences.
Finally as NBN points out, what is the real alternative? There’s the sugar daddy route, but as Ned points out, you become a plaything, subject to the capricious moods of an individual who can decide your future, even your very existence, on a whim. Can anyone really say, hand on heart, that they expect City or Chelsea to be challenging at the forefront of the game in thirty years time, much less fifty? I’ll be surprised if Chelsea are in the Premiership in thirty years time.
Completely agree with Esso on RVP, as I do on Arteta. Those who are taking a cheap shot at Arteta really are scraping the bottom of a particularly masochistic barrel. With Poldi off, he was next in line, simple as that. Kudos to him for stepping up.
Welcome back AL. Gratified to see you put me in the same drinking company as ‘H. Sadly, it’s like putting Meadowbank Thistle in with Barcelona. ‘Holic would see me off in half an hour! Sound a good game though π
Ollie’s nose for left back gets my vote here!
So Tabs, what you are saying is that as a club we need to strive to be the best we can be with the resources available??????
I knew I would convince you in the end.
π
Good point, Nonny.
In other news, TrΓ©moulinas gets a long-deserved call-up to the France team.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/reserves-news/loan-watch-wellington-on-target
One of the most worrying thing about those recent loan watches is the number of players who…don’t play or aren’t even in the squad, for teams who are not exactly flying….
Apologies tabs for putting you in with the big-guns there – though i feel that after swallowing that strange thingy the young’un gave us the other week we’re both arguably deserving of a promotion on that front.
Psed – am intrigued as to why you think chelski won’t be in the premiership in 30 years time?
Haha you’re right there AL, that concoction properly did for me.
As for Chelsea, at some point in the future, whether it be through his death or through disinterest or because he finds a new toy, or because he has his nose put out of joint, Abramovich will pull the plug and want to sell.
At that point, Chelsea will be in deep doo doo. Their outgoings don’t just exceed their incomings, they utterly dwarf them. I don’t think they could function for more than 6 months, if that, without being propped up by Abramovich. They’ll go bust, plummet through the divisions, and then re-emerge, probably as some fan-owned new entity.
They will then find their real level, which I would guess is in the top half of The Championship.
Just my view π
@311 – Maybe that proves the players some people appear to be pinning their hopes on for the future are actually a bit shit.
More than a ‘maybe’ for a lot of them I’d say, Nonny.
Young players who go out on loan and come back successful have been few and far between.
Is J.E-T setting the Championship alight?
Fair play tabs, and obviously weβs both indulging in a little wild-western conjecture here β but I spose an alternative narrative might run along the lines of: their Klondike like dash and grab for the emerging, enormous global fanbase out there β sustained and spurred on by the success the rusky money-laundererβs dirty cash has bought them β will keep them deep in clover for decades to come.
Though I know which outcome i’ll be asking santa for this crimbo, and for many crimbos to come.
Oops, pardon β discussing their business like this is making spew creep up me wind-pipe and go into me olβ cake-βole – I need me a livener/sweetner/bar of soap.
Oh and, somewhat depressingly, chelski registered a profit for the first time under the rusky-regime re last year.
Right – i’m orf to the bog to meet Hueeeey.
Afternoon all,
Cheers Tabs, AL – hopes and hehs at the pair of you. π
Just to clarify, I’m not in favour of ditching a self sustaining model, it just seems to me that the glue in our model has all dried up, with the exception of the Rainy Day Account that Tabs mentioned. And then what ?
I’m sorry to read about your cold Ollie, but I will pick my own time to get involved in runny nose jokes.
I could, however, put you in touch with a dodgy Italian bloke I know who claims to have stolen the sole rights to a magic formula that will make your nose a lot more comfortable. He’s from the Cosy Nostril. π
Ok, I’m going. Could someone sinus out ….. Ta. π
Pardon – announced not registered – yet.
Back to the bog it is…
Something with the word ‘coat’ in, Trev π
Try not to spread that cold around Ollie – that means no hanky panky for you, old son π
AL @317 Blimey, really? Didn’t realise that. I haven’t read anything on it (accounts aren’t really my ting) but I suspect some pretty intensive accounting chicanery took place there. Suspect also that the figures don’t take account of the net Β£80m they wellied out in the summer.
And @316 Yep your narrative is certainly possible AL, although I don’t think there’s a huge pool of people willing to sink their wealth ad infinitum into a football Club. I don’t think Chelsea will ever compete at the top level without outside wealth. Their ground isn’t big enough for a start. Even so, your story is certainly possible but I prefer my story, so I’m sticking to it π
Afternoon Trev.
tabs: “If the proposed deal with Adidas is as reported, then it no better than par, (if that), and there are people at Arsenal in their commercial sector earning big bucks under false pretences.”
On the other hand, on par means that at least we catch up a quite significant bit and it would still be way better than almost every other team. Depending on which reports you choose to believe, it is way better than the deal that Liverpool signed just months ago which was hailed as a rather massive deal.
Ollie thinks Abramovich is the bogey man. π
Lars is the new BtM, FACT!!!!!
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8244483/RvP-Out-Of-Dutch-Squad
If only I could believe he had a real injury, rather than a Funguscunt strain.
Shame, I was hoping for Per to ‘fucking knock him out’, as the song goes.
Can we pull Santi out of the Spain squad before he travels to fucking Panama?
HA!, nice one (x2) Trev.
Do I hear the sound of music coming from the bar ?
Oh no, it’s just Ollie strumming his catarrh. π
tabs@322: there is also the very real possibility that Abramovic falls out of favour with the powers that be in Russia, and what happens to Chelsea if his assets are frozen or he is thrown in jail? What happens if he goes under a bus and a court battle over his inheritance ensues, meaning no-one will pay their bills and they won’t be able to sell the club? Etc etc…
Heh Trev, not quite perhaps but I do confess to being an optimist π
Back to work for me.
Look after Ollie, everyone, he doesn’t Feelgood. π
Chelsea have turned debt into equity by dumping the debt on another Abramovic business. They therefore comply with FFP and sweep Ivan’s increasingly clumsy feet from under him.
Yeh fair enough Lars, I realise it’s nearly double what we’ve had to put up with from Nike. But given how long we’ve had to wait for our shirt deal to be renegotiated, the figures didn’t have me whooping and hollering. The fact that we are only on a par with Liverpool, a team that hasn’t won the League in over 20 years and hasn’t played Champions League football in 3, says it all.
You and I could have whacked on our Lederhosen, fed the adidas boys some Sauerkraut and extracted Β£25 mill a year from them. Nothing special in my view.
Trev π
Heh, Trev’s back on top form!
Which reminds me, tabs, there was an Arsenal fan dressed up in lederhosen in Gelsenkirchen…
Andy @ 332. Is it a bit like transferring debt from you to me? π
Lars @329 Totally agree, although I think that political interference from Moscow is highly unlikely now. Abramovich just has too big a western profile for them to get involved, the major reason why he acquired Chelsea in the first place.
Ollie @335 – Haha, that was me and Lars just back from Munich after grilling Adidas π
tabs, maybe we could. But then again, we don’t actually know too much about the new deals yet – all we have heard are media rumours so far. I remain optimistic yet π
Fair point Lars.
tabs@337: true, but things can change quite quickly in that regard. If he pisses the wrong people off they won’t care how high-profile he is in Western Europe.
And heh@338 π
Andy at 336, exactly π
What Lars just said
Just to help build confidence up for Saturday’s game: Howard Webb is the ref….
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhh.
(I know I know they’re ALL inept anyway……)
Yeh true again @341 Lars.
Hehs at the Andys, whoever you may be.
tabs – i believe the chelski figures announced mostly take into account the mountain of money garnered from their champs league success. (Though no doubt there’s a bit of creative accounting here and there. But they have to go public with this stuff so they must be fairly confident of getting it by the FFP thingy – however it’s done.)
The 80mill outlay you mention is spread over the course of the length of the contracts of those signed (and don’t think any of it has been included yet) – so shouldn’t upset the FFP apple cart too much – s’long as they keep on winning stuff i spose
Plus, i wasn’t talking about folk from all over the globe sinking fortunes into any of the football PLCs – but merely mentioning them behaving like happy to be aligned with success and sinking a few bucks here and there into club merchandise and praps catching their favourite PLC on the net – customers/consumers/die-hard keyboard fans. 10/20/30 bucks x 100/200/300 mill annually etc., etc. adds up.
(Alarm bells now going off in my head as i’m beginning to exit me comfort zone.)
Ah fuk it – i’m gonna start watching speedway i reckon. Come The Bellevue wassernames – give it some!
Up The Arse!
Oops – “on” –
Only noticed now that one of the Andys is a fake, tabs.
Andys know!
Re: Chelsea’s books, from Reuters:
“Profits of 28.8 million pounds made on transfer dealings helped Chelsea to return to the black.
High-profile departures from Chelsea last season included Alex to Paris St Germain, and Yuri Zhirkov who went to wealthy Russian team Anzhi Makhachkala. Chelsea signed Gary Cahill and Juan Mata in the period but such transfer costs are spread over several years depending on the length of their contracts.
Summer signings including Oscar and Eden Hazard were not included in the latest set of results, a club spokesman said.”
So long as they keep making a transfer profit of Β£30m a year they’ll remain narrowly in the black.
…As does N7 Gooner – fanks a bunch for the proper figures and that, there.
Ollie – I don’t think J E-T could set alight tissue paper if he used a box of matches, let alone the Championship.
He probably wouldn’t know which end of a match you’re supposed to use, Nonny π
AL, N7 – Cheers for the Info.
Tabs , rev Al, n7′ Lars, Chelsea’s annual profit was Β£1.2 million for year ending 30/06. Meanwhile Β£166 million debt was written off as Abramovich converted debt into equity in the club. FFP rules π
@ Ulympian 356
I could be wrong, but I don’t think the conversion of debt to equity affects the figures for the year, other than via the reduction in interest payments.
The Β£166m debt would not have shown up on the balance sheet for the year, since it has been accumulated over nearly a decade.
It is, however, as you say, a good example of how the oil scum intend to navigate their way around FFP.
I hope the club have a good plan B if FFP flops. Knowing us, it’s probably throwing on Arshavin for 5 minutes at the death.
I don’t think FFP will be of much help at all. People will find a way around it
The only way we can win something major is by punching above our weight.
When did football chat become a matter of talking about converting debt into equity, eh?
God, I miss the old days.
N7, you are right – the equity conversion does not affect the result for the year, and the loans were interest-free so the only effect it has is reduce overall debt.
In any case I’m not so sure Abramovic converting debt to equity really helps Chelsea in any significant way as far as FFP goes. The whole point of FFP is to stop owners from covering losses, and if they write a cock-and-bull sponsorship deal or convert debt to equity makes no real difference as far as I understand. The FFP review board thingy can still declare that to be above market value and not allow Chelsea to count all that money towards break-even.
As I have said before, what effect FFP really does have in a few years’ time depends on what clubs fall foul of the rules. If Barca, Real and ManU all fail, then FFP will fail – but if the only clubs not complying are Man City and Chelsea, then I’m not so sure.
But regardless of that, the Premier League is also about to introduce it’s own version of FFP. This has gone very much under the radar even though there have been a few articles about it in the media, but there is a meeting quite soon (maybe even this week) where this will be discussed and the rules may be applied starting next season. That may or may not affect our situation, but the UEFA FFP is not the only scheme that may change the landscape.
N7 356 your are right in that the conversion of debt into equity only reduces the interest payments when calculating profit / loss. What has been achieved however is the buying of players at vastly inflated prices and paying their salarys at inflated rates building up a totally unsustainable debt in any normal trading company and then the writing off the debt at the stroke of a pen. FFP rules ok π
The question that is taxing everyone at the moment ..is our steady decline and lack of success over the past few years due to the club’s board of directors stance on sustainability or is it the managers failure to get the best out of our fairly talented squads we’ve mainly enjoyed during this period. Who knows ? (Apart from Ollie’s nose π )
Lars….I started writing my bit before you posted but it is at the speed of a Denilson – I was quickly overtaken by your speed of Theo.
The club is putting all its bets on just the one horse “FFP” – let’s hope for all of footballs sake, not just Arsenals, they are on the winner.
Up: that, or that the club has a plan B that they have not told anyone about. But I wouldn’t bet any money on that being the case.
Extract 12th November
Dear Diary
It’s been some time since my last confession. Mainly due to Roxette stamping on the hand that I do my best joined-up writing in.
Not much to report, except : Wolfgang Smallballs lurched into the office this morning wearing a brand-new pair of Speedos with a massive target motif on the rear. I asked if there was anything significant about this, to which he simply replied, with a flounce of the hair, :
“I’m a fan of zonal marking.”
And all the while, as the faint hearted disembark, the bottom line feels the pinch. Far be it from me to sneer at some bottom line pinching, but if this keeps up it will be only a matter of time before we have to sell off some of our prized assets.
And how could the Feelgood Foundation function without my sunglasses?
Hi all,
I thought I’d continue the discussion on M’Vila some more.
Wenger did say that he would not need another “holding/defensive” midfielder because we had Diaby, Jack, Coquelin and Frimpong. As it stands, we have no Diaby and Frimpong looks to be out of favour at present. Everyone knows my thoughts on M’Vila and the issues surrounding our form since the substitution of Diaby due to injury during our match against Chavski.
Now transfer speculation is not the healthiest way to discuss our great club, but at present purchasing M’Vila in January seems to be a deal which would suit all parties concerned, perfectly.
I know some of you will not agree, but the truth is we are missing a midfielder, hence Wenger’s attempt to sign Sahin on loan. So for me, a midfielder like M’Vila, should (and I say should), be top of our transfer options in the New Year, as holding leads and closing games βa la Gilbertoβ is a must.
As I said, Walcott is coming into his own and whenever he has played, has created and assisted most of Arsenals goals, in particular forming an inevitable understanding with Giroud. So besides offering Walcott a new deal, M’Vila would complete this seasons unfinished transfer business.
However, depending upon whether your glass is half full or empty, letting Walcott go (more than likely) and leaving M’Vila stranded at Rennes or allowing another club to take him “a la Vertonghen”, will be the conclusion of our transfer business!
π
Agree/disagree? Donβt give a damn? Iβd be interested to hear!
π
Goonertown: considering M’Vila has had quite severe disciplinary issues (suspended from the French NT until July 2014, made to train with the U21 at Rennes and both for disciplinary reasons) I don’t think he’ll ever play at the Emirates Stadium in a home shirt.
Feelgood π
http://www.francefootball.fr/#!/news/2012/11/12/184141_deschamps-n-est-pas-inquiet-pour-diaby.html
(no news just questions with no answers)
Goonertown, let me be Snir’s spokesperson:
forget M’Vila, get Capoue.
Freddie Ljungberg was just given a Lifetime Achievement award at the annual Swedish football gala. Recorded video messages from Arsene, Bergkamp and Thierry Henry were shown along with a bunch of Freddie’s goals for Arsenal. Nostalgia set in pretty bad…
Nice thing, Lars. As long as they didn’t get Kris to take part, Freddie should be safe π
Lars, Uppy, N7 – fanks for that lot. Feel like i know more but ultimately (due to my own failings) am probably – long-term/overall/whatTheEffDoesItAllMean – none the wiser.
Re M’Villa: apparently banned by his international football fed for leading a small posse of players orf to a night-club while on international duty…sounds old-school Arsenal to me – sign him up for AFC, ASAP!!!
AND Feelgood’s creeping round the bar again – YIKES!
@Ollie – Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Bit more of this on Saturday please.
http://i.imgur.com/Nlt7I.gif
Trev @ 325 – the much improved BtM……!
Funnily enough, I empathize strongly with nearly everything Lars writes. It’s that TaBs fellow who make my tits itchy π (Used to be Steve T, but I’ve found a warm spot in my heart for him since I met his nipper and realised that there is, after all, a non-alien life form on planet Terrington π
Re: Tabs @374. Cruel, cruel, cruel. But necessary. Ha ha ha:)
Weeeeeeeeeeeeee luv youuuuuuuu Freddddddddie cos you ‘ad red ‘air – we love youuuuuuuuuuu Fredddddddddie cos you were evreeeeeeeee where, we luv you Fredddddeeeeeee cos you’re Arsenal through and through etc., ad infinitum, etc.
What have I done to upset you now Btm. I’ve hardly said a word on saturday???
It’s the haddock thing isn’t it … π
Before the Fulham game certain underground bookies were offering odds of 8-1 on the Arse finishing outside the top 4.
Being a Realist,as opposed to most of the Dreamers and Eternal Optimists on here,i had a very large wedge of dosh on at what i considered to be a certainty.!!
After the Fulham game,the odds have been slashed to 4-1.
Like taking candy from a baby.!!
Dream on everyone,in case you hadn’t noticed,the PARTY is over.!!!
AHOMT
There is a distinct smell of Cusop in the post @ 380.
Approach with caution and bio-hazard suit.
Bumped into my (whisper it) City mate in the gym today (there, now Iβm out of the closet).
βCriminal to miss a penalty in the last minuteβ quoth he.
βYep, our defense is having issues right nowβ
βThe defensive play of every one of the top four is shit right nowβ he opined. βThatβs why City are out of the Champions Leagueβ.
(BtM to self βWhat β weβre having our worst start to the season since Adam beat Eve 2-0 in the Garden of Eden, in extra time, and weβre still in the CL while City, 400M loss makers last year are out? It cannae be true, mon!β)
βManureβs defense is the worst. They are an absolute shambles at the backβ How many goals have they lost? 16 in the league?β
βCity is a one man team unfortunately. If Silva isnβt playing we have no creativity. Nasri just canβt cut itβ
(BtM to self βWhat, 400M down the gurgler to buy the league last year and they only have one creative mid-fielder? Jings, crivvens, whaβ wouldβve thoucht it?β)
βManciniβs out at the end of the season, I reckon. Heβs pathetic. The Sheik will throw a bundle at Guardiola. Make him an offer he canβt refuse.β
(BtM to self βDamnation β does that mean weβll have to keep Arsene? YES!!!!)
βBlue Moon, you got me laughing out loudβ¦β¦β¦.β In the key of B flat.
Iβm holding strong to my prediction of top four and one piece of silver. Olivier Giroud to score 20 goals in his first season at The Arsenal.
COYRRRs. Lars we need to form a splinter group. Let’s huddle in the corner at The Tolly next time we’re there so that these other b*ggers can’t hear us. Wondering what we should call ourselves?
The Deluded Bloke talking funny @ 382.
I rest my case.!!
After the Spuds game the odds will be 2-1.!!
AHOMT
*sniggering*
Reckon Andy Goram is in the house tonight π
Evening BtM. Waiting for you to beat me with the stick too.
Can’t deny the evidence of my eyes or heavy heart π
Time now to turn this emotion into an atmosphere on Saturday that will scare the living daylights out of the neighbours. Roar for the Arsenal like you have never done before. Do this one thing and you have earned the right to think what on earth you like on Saturday night.
BtM that is just the oddest post. Blind optimism.
Love it!
I’ll go even further – OG to get 20. Our boy (perhaps if he effing signs we’ll finally call him The Man) Theo to get 20. That wacky German dude … no, the other one … will get 15.
Pant, pant, pant – i wanna be like you-ou-ou.
G.Bale the king of the S.wingers fesses up … http://youtu.be/PV2GZF8rKT4
This is more topical, Mr Tongue π
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7wCfttJVnQ
Yeehaaaaa ‘holic – nothing like an NLD to blow the LWCs away – bring it on.
Ollie@371: heh, Kris was nowhere near the gala, he’s now studying to become a lawyer (yes, really!) in a town about 150 kilometres from Stockholm!
BtM@382: I get enough splinters from sitting on that bloody fence all the time so forming a group to get even more of them is not for me π
And last but not in the slightest bit the least I agree with the Holic, let us all use our energy to give the LWC:s some proper hell on Saturday. Wish I could be there to do my bit.
I’ll double my volume for you, Lars. π
Some excellent drinks from the usual suspects. How can anyone despair for this club with supporters like those who inhabit this estimable establishment.
On the debt to equity conversion by Abramovich at Chelsea the point is not that it substantially affects this year’s P&L, or even the balance sheet as it is just an accounting shuffle of the deck, but that it was effectively Β£167 million of operating funds in seasons past that the club didn’t have to earn or pay for to borrow or pay back. It is a blatant move to prep the books for FFP.
AL, thanks for the compliment. You flatter me. When I can tally Lars’s tab I will accept the honor, but that is a task beyond any man.
On the Arteta penalty, if Giroud had taken there would have been an equal chance of it decapitating Schwartzer and some poor bloke in Row Z.
Arse Out,
The bookies love a soft touch, mate.
Holic,
There’s more chance of the seas going dry……
Don’t be fooled by your eyes. Remind them that our keeper will be back this weekend. Our left back shortly after. The Ox is fit to provide some rotation AND they (your eyes) must have been closed if they didn’t see the quality that oozed from both feet and the head of Thomas Eisfeld when he came on at Reading. That boy will be huge for Arsenal and deserves to feature (as a sub) very, very soon, to provide additional guile. passing accuracy (how do you spell metronome?) and rotation.
In short, may I recommend a visit to your optometrist (as they call them here – that’s optician to you and me) π
Should I sit and play silly buggers right up tip 400. Nah, won’t do a TaBS.
Thanks for that, Holic – I’ll repay you in the form of a pint of Guinness if you are at the Tollie before the Montpellier game π
Nods a sleepy ball to Giroo
Waits a long time for Theo’s reply
Bang……
Well in, Steve!
You can’t teach that.
π
Well in Steve – and gettin’ ’em in Lars???
At last – good one ST
Anyone seen Tactics from the Blog – poses a question to AW about a Plan B if the Teta is marked out of the game – and I would like to think that our response is to drop JW back alongside, then use 3 up front spread wide (Ox, Theo and Giroo) with Santi behind
No good thinking anymore Night all
Steve T @ 402.
you can’t teach the Arse to play football either mate.!!
If middle of the road Fulham came to play with 3 front men on saturday confident they could turn you over,just imagine what the Spuds will get up to this saturday.!!
I might have to go and have another large bet at the 4-1.!!
BTM @ 394, Stark Cold Reality will hit you full on this saturday my friend.
AHOMT
And wiv my panama hat on – WTF!!! And good-nite.
“Arsenal are prepared to let Emmanuel Frimpong leave the club in January after deciding not to offer him a new contract, according to reports.”
Cheerio, Twitter boy. Not exactly upset, should this prove to be true. I’m overjoyed in fact.
BtM. You don’t have to whisper that you go to the gym. And I think you will find that all those that are injured are 3 weeks away from playing. Every single one of them.
Wagnob out, Wagnob out. 4-1 you say??? Yeah, if I.were you I would put all I own on that. It’s a dead cert. Go on “mate,” put the lot on. You.will be quids in.
Check out Sky Sports News Nonny. Your joy appears to be very short lived.
For non-Twitter followers. Why was I not alerted to this original before?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-2CKsaq5r8&feature=related
Excellent strike Steve π
Indeed that is not a factual report, Nonny, but he won’t make it. We all know that.
Looks like a Scotsman’s out for a ruck tonight.
He might get one if he’s not careful.
We’re understanding here. Rucking is for Saturday…
Thank fuck I realised when I said form a circle that the guns would have to be turned to the outside…
Hate the fact that you can’t see a friend smiling when he hits the enter button π
After saturday’s defensive comedy capers,my underground bookie is only offering me even money about the Arse conceding over 40 goals
in the league AGAIN this season.!!
The fucker knows.!!
AHOMT
I agree with BtM. That Tabs is a bit of a strange fellow if you ask me.
π
The fight comes Saturday holic. Too right. The air is full with the stench of Spud fear.
Or is that just how the place normally smells? It’s hard to.tell.
FIOS
G’night all…
Speaking as one who has no idea what an Android App is, I am wondering why there is a link to it in the Sidebar.
I suppose it must some new age whiskey …
Never post just before bed. Breaking my own rule.
The news on EF saddens me. If its true.
Remember the young gunners v man citu in the FA cup (i think it was) last year. Maybe carling.
The young gunners dazzled. Truly exciting. Was like our acadamy v citeha millionaires. Cracking game. Le coq and frimmy especially. Citeh brought aguero at half. They went on To win. Caught le coq out of position if memory serves for a late goal. Admittedly its been many guiness since then.
Frimmys great on the ball. Strong in the tackle. Superb engine Precocious to be sure. Mostdef immature. But hes essentiall yan m vila (who ive never like) and hes free. And less jaded. Easy decision if ga ask me.
Must be more there than meets the eye. Will defer to the holic on that one.
Cheers all.
I agree re: Frimpong. There’s something there, he just needs to get his head down, stay fit and stop picking up daft bookings. This is not a moment to be shipping out holding midfielders.
Loving the bar ignoring the bad smell.
Whether Frimmers goes or stays, from the point he featured on a music track with Lethal Bizzle and others, the signs were not looking good. You could even say when he breached 300k followers & started unfollowing all his academy & reserve team-mates (Henderson et all) was the start of his lack of focus towards the football.
He’s a catchphrase in a football shirt, and even the catchphrase is shit. He’s no Bruce Forsyth on the catchphrase front and I reckon Bruce is a better player as well π
Morning all,
Great post at #386 ‘Holic. That’s proper support.
BtM & Lars to form an unholy alliance and to stop The Moody Train Mk1 dead in its tracks?
Oh yes. “The Clan of the Vikings” is born and is coming to a corner of a certain pub in N5 very soon. How about a traditional blue and gold scarf to denote your new movement. Where do I sign?
We need a good cheering up. Where the f*ck is a Cusop when you need him? Did they finally lock him up and throw the key away in the The Bill Nicholson Sanitorium?
Come back Cusop, you will never be forgiven….and….
THEY will always be C*NTS.
UP. THE. ARSE!
Morning all
A quiet one to start with so have had a chance to do soem excellent backdrinking (TM Wind)
Great stuff, lifted the spirits (not hard), and I even mananged to laugh at the pathetic attention seeking. Actually I laughed harder at the complete lack of response to the attention seeking.
HereΒ΄s your bowl, nice and steaming, lap it up….
Drink.
ThatΒ΄s not a question…
PS
Have been working hard in The Quackery. Reviving hamsters, that sort of thing… so not in touch with the HT.
Is the HT still the HT? Or is it (as Prof TS remarked to me the other day) now the Moody Train?
??
Ah… I see that it was indeed the MT. But now is no longer?
My, things happen fast around here!
Nods to Catalan π
Health news. Off sick for 2 days. Tonsillitis, adenopathy and rhinitis. (if that’s how it translates). At least I have drugs now. Should be operational for Saturday but should maybe sip soda.
Wind! Saw your DM. Will email later but at the moment I’m not leaving my bed. Even getting the laptop and firing it up seems too much an effort.
If only 386 were retweetable…
Ollie 430. Hope you make a good recovery in time for Saturday – bonne sautΓ©. You have drugs now….ah that’s why Feelgood had been absent these past few days – good to see he’s looking after the faithful. Either that or he’s locked himself into the quackery after saturdays doom & gloom and polished them off all himself. π
Ahh good to hear Ollie, Holic ‘introduced’ us via the Backchannels & I’ve sent you an e-mail direct, reply when you’ve got the strength and get better soon! π
Nonny – Dench to see you, to see you dench? π
Lars, regarding the Tollie vs Montpellier, NorCal will have his kids with him that are going to the game and I don’t think the Tollie is sweet on kids after 6pm or something, don’t know how its going to work to be honest, what time will you be there?
Been doing a bit more backdrinking –
Tabs @ 202: re the owner (who’s bound to start making good on his investment in AFC in the not too distant) helping us out with an interest free loan (as Danny Fizmann did when he came on board – and we bought Dennis with the dosh i think – hurrah) to tide us over ’til the promised land of 2014: Such a loan could enable AW to hold on to talent he may not want to sell in the next 2 years.
The football business of AFC lost over 30 million quid last year, so how else are we going to make up the shortfall? The property’s gone – so player transfers it is then – or…
But tabs watch yerself dearboy – when I suggested something similar in the summer the outriders of the fraught-brigade got their bloomers terribly bunched up over it.
NBN – thanks for clearing that up.
And thank gawd that that lot have arrived just in time to save our season – again. Too, too kind. Bring it on.
Okay so Ollie, Lester and co are fairly divided on this matter as I expected.
Capoue? I know less of him than YM, although he was supposed to have scored a wonder goal recently.
Based upon reliable hearsay, one or the other of the two French warriors would do.
However on an international note, for the first time in a long, I am looking forward to the display of some of what the UKs upcoming youngsters have to offer against Sweden. An interesting selection from old Woy. Friendly or not!
Have a good day guys
Wind, not sure what time we’ll be at the Tollie. It is not entirely up to me for various reasons, but I would guess that we’ll be there around 6 or so.
Morning holics. Ollie, sorry to hear that. Now here’s a rhetorical question. When you’re with a mate and his zipper is down, do you tell him? Or do you let him parade around like a fool. When I’m with someone, and they have a crumb on their lip, or their nose hairs are sticking out, I tell them. That’s what real friends do. And so it goes with Arsene. Think the world of him. If I could bend his ear, I’d tell him to be more flexible. And positive. And maybe start to cut back on all the lovely extras he does for the community and start taking better care of himself. That’s what a real friend would do.
Arsene’s flies are undone ?
Catalan – good to see you back.
Holic – just caught up with that superb ‘singing monkeys’ video. π
Now Trev π
Ollie
Sorry to hear you’re under the weather. You have the run of the CMC to really aid your recovery.
#386 is far too sensible for twitter…
Dr.C @ #427
It is in my warped sense of reality.
Holic @ 415 amen to that, brother. Can I send you a pic with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek – in the current climate, that is the only mode I can operate in. Not sure that, without the picture,it always comes over that way (particularly to non-English speaking foreign guests like ST). π
Forever in our shadow you will be,
Your heart is full of pain and jealousy,
Tottenham,
Tottenham,
Will you ever win the Premier League (Don’t be daft)
Forever in our shadow you will be,
You know where you can stick your celery,
Chelsea,
Chelsea,
Money cannot buy you history.
Sadly, I am still feeling very much like this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAnPxSlEKTs
abb has gone twitter crazy π
Heh! @ Bob Plegming π
abb is on twitter? Be afraid….
Shortly after the final whistle on Saturday I went offline and had avoided all football until I started to backdrink earlier today (yesterday). I still haven’t watched the recorded MOTD’s from the weekend due to lack of time and quite honestly interest.
I return to the bar to find it has florished in my abscence, too many excellent posts to mention, I particulary enjoyed a few of the contributions of those who’s names I’m not familiar with as well as the usual suspects, so many different views have been offered from so many different perspectives. Yet from the most pessimistic to the forever optimistic, there are bits in almost every post that I find myself agreeing with. (I started typing this yesterday evening, but had no time to finish off, so here I am back again.)
The blame game seems to be in full swing at the moment. I’ve seen arguments against the board, the manager, the coaches and the players. Personally I think they all must share the responsibility for what’s transpiring, Holic correctly points out that we are not a club in “terminal decline”, but even those with the most rosiest tinted glasses must see that we are on a downword spiral.
For those who lay the blame solely at the feet of the board, I ask you this;
Was it Stan Kroenke who decided that we should gamble on the perma-croaks Diaby, Gibbs and Rosicky?
Did Ivan Gazadis decide to play Santos when the world and it’s sister knew he wasn’t fit for task?
Did PHW in his ultimate wisdom think that our keeper situation was sorted?
The answer ofcourse to all those question is no, the board has it’s faults (I’ll get to those in a minute) but when it comes to team/squad issues the buck can only stop at one man and that my friends is Arsene Wenger.
Now, before all the AKB’ers start hurling rocks at me, I’m not suggesting that he should get the old spanish archer, but not to question some of his methods would also constitute derilication of duty from us the fans. Some of his decisions lately have baffled me, our starting line up, our substitutions, players being played out of position or in a system that’s cleary not working are just a few of the issues that not only he, but also the coaching staff need to be taken to task for.
Steve Bould’s early influence was universily applauded, but here we are a few weeks later, and as Trev so eloquently stated, hitting our heads on the same old doorposts, yet no-one is calling for his head, why not? Once again, I’m not calling for Stevie to be scalped, but surely he deserves as much of the blame as Arsene.
The players are all acting under the instructions of the management team, so I can’t particualarly blame them if the tactics are at fault or if they are playing out of their comfort zone, however, they seem to often forget the basics and this is frustrating in the extreame, sometimes I see mistakes that a Sunday morning pub league team full of alchos that were out on the lash the night before would get lambasted for. To say that we make schoolboy errors would be an insult to kids up and down the country, sometimes we are a shambles and to be honest we look like we could concede a goal at any given time during a match. Some of the players need to take a good hard look at themselves because sometimes (not necessarily Saturday) their effort does not do our shirt justice and that is simply unacceptable. But then again, if the players are finding it “hard to get out of second gear”, “lost their way” or have “forgotten how good they are” then once again the management has to take the blame.
There’s been a lot of talk about FFP lately, personally I think it’s all hot air, another empty slogan from the genius’ that brought us “Fair Play”, “Respect” and the almost laughable, especially in light of recent events, “Say No to Racism”. The super rich will find a way to circumvent the rules (as they always inevitably do), The Chavs have cooked the books to make it look like they’re making a profit and just a few months ago the Sheiks had already shown us the way by signing a stadium naming rights contract to the tune of 500million with Ethiad, who’s owner just happens to be related to Manc-sour (or whatever his name is) This kind of “investment” virtualy wipes their slate clean and the owners probably have a butt load of other “investers” or relatives as they are known where I’m from, to chuck in the odd hundred million or so whenever the need arrises.
Let’s hypothetically say that Manure, Real and Barca can’t find a way around this problem, do you really for a second believe that Fifa will disqualify them from the CL? well, do ya? Three of the biggest clubs on the planet with the biggest pulling power for fans and sponsers alike?
Will they fuck, ofcourse they won’t for fear of the biggest clubs pulling away and forming their own league. For those who think it can’t be done, ask yourself how the PL came into existance.
Even if by some divine miracle, and I’m talking major pigs fly, walk on water, turn Pepsi into Coke miracle, FFP turns out to deliver what it promises then are we in the strongest position we could be? I think not. We’ve lost too much genuine quality over the years and replaced it with too much meh. We’ve made some decent signings, but anyone thinking we’ve replaced like for like is, I’m afraid to say, slightly deluded. So to get our squad up to the level it needs to be to compete with the best, from home and abroad, major investment will be needed.
Plus, our biggest mistake, and here’s where the board come into the equation, by pursueing a path of prudency, we as a club have forgotten that the business of Arsenal is football. We are constantly reminded that our deals are up for renewal and contracts are going to be renegotiated. I can’t see how this is a good thing. We haven’t won a trophy for ages and if this form continues the safety net of CL qualification will also vanish leaving us with a pretty weak hand. Don’t forget negotiations are a two way street and we are far away from being in a position to demand the top dollar title winning teams expect.
Kasby (fine drink BTW) made the case for SE Asia, backing up a post I had previously submitted saying that the new fans would be drawn to the likes of Chavs or Citeh because they will pick todays winners as history will mean bugger all to them, but you can see the effects here in the Lowlands too. A decade ago you couldn’t walk into a sportsshop without seeing an Arsenal shirt, nowadays the Man U, Citeh & Chav rags outnumber us greatly. You can’t open a magazine without seeing a RvP ad, losing a player of his international calibre hurts more then just on the field, it’s gonna hurt our marketing and I find it hard to believe that the board can’t see that everytime we lose our best players we lose another foothold in the international market. At the rate we’re going by the time it comes to put pen to paper we won’t be worth anywhere near what a club of our pedigree should be. And that my friends is what worries me the most.
It seems that many are disinchanted at the moment, I read that the official attendance for the Fulham match was 60,000, to that, I call bullshit. From the pictures I was seeing, there were many empty seats, thousands of them, meaning that seasonticket holders weren’t even bothering to turn up for a London Derby, this also has to be worrying.
Ofcourse it’s not all doom and gloom and I’m not teetering on the edge of a table with a noose around my neck. I believe that we do have enough quality in the team to turn things around, all we need is to find a system that brings out the best in what we have and to wake the fuck up and cut out all the silly mistakes. If we can take care of business on the field then business off the field will take care of itself.
I’ll have a half full glass of whatever BtM has been drinking and a round for the bar please.
Arsenal Bloody Arsenal.
Get well soon Ollie.
Gushing with good wishes to get Oillie well. π
Cheers, folks, it’s a real pain, but maybe the timing isn’t the worst as I wasn’t toooo busy and I have hope to be OK for Saturday.
@TS
Oh yes. βThe Clan of the Vikingsβ is born and is coming to a corner of a certain pub in N5 very soon.
Sacrilege!!
If you are talking about a certain establishment where ‘holics meet up under a brolly, then as a born and breed Holloway boy may I remind you that that, as is our new stadium, situated in N7.
Someone needs to tell abb that twitter isn’t just for one day π
I think the stadium (it’s official address anyway) is in N5 even if the pub is in N7, no?
When I was a kid Ashburton Grove was in N7.
Ashburton Grove is in Holloway, not Highbury.
Holloway = N7.
Highbury = N5.
Unless they changed it without telling me, I have been away for quite a while. π
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holloway,_London
The official address (Highbury House) is Drayton Park though.
The boundary is the railway line, I believe. Hence the offices are in N5 but the stadium is in N7.
Yep, the Tollie is indeed in N7, my bad.
Arsenal’s official address is in N5.
Postal address:
Arsenal Football Club
Highbury House
75 Drayton Park
LONDON
N5 1BU
Pedants of the world unite!
Well, Drayton Park was always N5, so now I’m confused.
Maybe they re zoned it ? Because Ashburton Grove was definetly N7 when I was a lad.
Ah well, the Tollie is on the brolly gaff is on the corner of Tollington and Hornsey Rd’s so that is definetly N7……..For now. π
Ah! I see we’ve done this sh*t to death. Iit must be an interlull or something π
A bit of a fuck up in 463, but you get my point (I hope)
@ 457 OMG Just spreading the gospel π
I see it’s all puns and post codes today. Definitely an interlull.
461 Andy ….you are on the right track π
466 abb….spreading the gospel eh, must be the book of Revelations to some π
Barnstorming address from a top goonah H2H – cheers, more than plenty well-worth a pondering.
And if anyone’s interested – Woolwich is in S.E.18 … Oh. Thought not.
Psed – Ollie very, very sorry to hear about your worsening condition – if i were one of the legion (or so it seeems) of so-called doctors dishing out medication willy-nilly aboard The Happy Train – i’d prescribe an NLD 5-2ish thrashing to be dished out by The Arse this very Saturdee afternoon…
But I’m not – so i can’t.
But reckon we will – so there!!!
H2H 452. Agree with you whole-heartily …FFP my arse. With Platini’s uefa involvolved it will have as much bite as a cat with no teeth.
Chelski and Manoil have already shown ways around it without really trying too hard. For sure, they won’t be pushing the glamour clubs away from the (lucrative) fold.
470 AL…..woolwich arsenal is in N7 or possibly N5 nowadays π
It would be more preferable though not to give the marsh dwellers a 2 goal handicap start this time round.
Uppy – you’re right on at least one of those counts.
‘H – i’m sure you won’t mind – but as a fairly well brought up South-London lad i feel it’s only right to tip me cap in the direction of the propriertor of this more than fine establishment … anyway, if it’s OK, here’s a link to well-writ blog offering a.n. other interesting perspective on recent, mid and longish-term events re The Arse …
http://wso.li/2zm1
Get well soon Ollie @ 455
But while I’m at it, do you think you could bring Diaby back with you on Sat?
(I know he’s hiding out there somewhere)
π
Goonertown. @ 475
As far as I know Ollie has caught a cold, not the ability to raise the dead.
Bringing Diaby back would be up there with one of those miracles I mentioned in 456. π
=====
Cheers AL and Uply.
AL, I read that piece, but I’m not sure if I completly get the jist of it as I’ve never read his work before. When I glanced the comments section the responces leaned towards the fact that the writer may have been in tongue and cheek mode. Hard to tell for strangers to the blog.
Reading through H2H’s epistle (long enough to adapt into a major motion picture?) it stuck me that we bought van Persie as a 21 year old but he didn’t come good until he was 27. Not sure how that applies to our present malaise, save perhaps we should only buy 27 year old superstars.
Feel better soon, Ollie. An NLD win is the tonic you need.
7am KO’s tongue firmly in cheek, me thinks.
I think his tongue is in his in cheek H2H – tho who knows, for sure, what cheek.
Psed – not saying i necessarily agree with all of that piece, H2H – but thought it a well-worthy contribution to the the debate/s currently dominating the goonerverse
Oops – like a drunk on a pub-crawl – too many ins – pardon.
Multiple heys for TS and Uply. The rest of you lot have earned this π Ollie, there is just one more, Harry the baby hippo π
OK, thanks for the info, gents.
Ollie, get well soon and if you don’t – could you perhaps try to get a ticket behind the Sp*rs bench on Saturday and cough all over them? π
Baby hippo is amazing, abb π
Nice work H2H – and plenty of it ! π
There’s a word in there that interests me and it is ‘responsibility’. Have been trying to find time to highlight it since Sunday, but there seem to be more crocks in Hertfordshire than the Arsenal training ground at the moment.
Apologies all, may or may not get the opportunity to post tonight. Taking the management to see her Mum who has been rushed into hospital. Hopefully back soon.
Best wishes, Holic.
Saying a prayer now. Please don’t worry about us, Holic.
All the best ‘h.
Apologies not needed, ‘holic; you know how the saying goes….
Fingers crossed, all the best.
Good plan Lars, but one tiny flaw.
The swampdwellers from the marshlands would probably be immune to our human bugs, it’s only our food that gets them. π
Cheers Trev.
I feel that our injury problems are not so much how many are injured, although there are usually too many, it’s just that there are a few who are constantly absent due to whatever, yet somehow, ignoring all previous history are expected to make a meaningful contribution, it verges on madness.
Best wishes ‘holic.
H2H@490: oh crap, didn’t think of that! Well, we’ll just have to get them some lasagna then π
Heh Lars, funnily enough lasagna and headed goals from Sagna are both weapons in the quest for keeping the LWC’s out of the CL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIClSXaxr5A
One reason why the future is so bright at Arsenal and my cup is overflowing. I was at this game (you were too, Holic, as I recall it). This young man lit up the evening as soon as he strolled on to the field. Watch the pace, the passing accuracy, the skill and the willingness to shoot on sight.
a snip at 0.45M.
Only one.
Ollie, Delighted you enjoyed Harry, the baby hippo pics. Sometime when you need a bit of cheering up, google Jessica the Hippo. Quite an amazing girl she is π
They sure are, H2H. As is the West Brom reserve keeper!
In all seriousness, I don’t really know what to expect on Saturday. We are far from being in top form, but that goes for them too.
All the best to you, the management and the mother-in-law H!
@494 BTM
Watching the young lad at that game was a real privilege. I remember that with all those experienced players on the pitch, I felt comfortable only when the ball was at his feet. Reminded me of a certain young Spanish bloke we had couple of years ago.
Form usually goes out the window in thosec sorts of games, lars. I just hope that it has been drilled into the new guys what this one means. I(‘m no fan of the expression “it’s a 6 pointer” because there are only ever three points available, but the NLD is not about the points, it’s about the bragging rights, the glory, our happiness, making sure that the planets align and that the universe stays balanced.
No pressure lads. π
Goes for glory!
H2H@452
ALL OF THAT!
Seriously, ALL of that. Nails hit firmly on head sir. Well played.
Wow – BTM – he looks like he might end up even betterterterteeer than Artetetetetatataaa!
Oooohhh…Well in lurky!
Great technique π
well in – urrrr – Lurrrky.
Well in Lurky.
Unlike you to make an appearance 2 posts before the hundred though, you’re slipping. π
That was my weaker leg, TW π
See Lurky, You must visit more often π H2H, Your form isn’t slipping, skillfully done assist π
Fingers, toes and everything else firmly crossed for the ‘Holic Household.
Again, puts a bit of perspective on things, doesn’t it.
lurky@506
HA! Chocolate leg?! Ball simply melted into the net!
Who else but H2H to make the assist when I don’t? π
Well in lurky!
H2H@499: not to mention that it’s a very important game! π
Oh, and well in Lurky!
You know fellas, we haven’t heard from ‘the sweeper’ in a while. Sure would like to what he thinks about the NLD. There are still others we need to hear from, before the big match, as well. Just hope all is ok with them. These holics know where to find us, and smiles await them on their return π
Thanks all, in car park now while they do what they do to old ladies in assessment wards. Suspected ticker attack, scary at any age, terrifying to an 82 year old.
She’s in the right place though and awake, so I’m making the amateur prognosis she’ll be ok. Everything crossed. Don’t know how many people work here but we must have met nearly all of them by now…
Cheers, ‘holic. Here’s to more good news.
Well never thought that this is going to be game I miss but same as with QPR, I am again busy during our pretty important game. Unfortunate swap of schedule will see me stuck in train for the duration of whole match, boarding it just in time of kickoff.
Since we won against QPR to my belated delight, I hope my absence will make lady luck smile upon us…actually …I hope we wont need her blessings and will utterly humiliate and destroy AVBs bunch of bellends. Wild prediction 4-1 Arsenal, with Feo, Giroud with brace and Mikel on scoresheet.
Thanks AL π
I was just being polite, H2H, you were all warned of my presence.
A good drink at 452 btw, agree with most of the points made.
I am not sure that majority of the Arsenal supporters are aware that our club is loosing it’s “coolness” and young followers, like Kasby said. At least I wasn’t.
Whatever we as a club need to do, should be first on the pitch, at least till January.
The pitch is the place where it is never late to turn things around, particularly at this part of the year. Little bit of luck, couple of players coming from injuries, a win against Spuds and Montpelier, and we are back on.
No fear, it is only the Spuds. We are going to be fine.
Keep the faith
Great news ‘Holic.
Sorry to hear Holic, hope all is and continues to be well.
Hope all goes well with management in law holic.
Well in Lurky….you are “our” fox in the box. Talking of which, maybe we should try “The Ox” in the box. π
That was in reference to your 1st on the matter Holic not your 2nd in case its misconstrued, happy to hear she’s ok π
Fingers crossed Holic.
Orrabest, pal.
Good to hear that, ‘Holic. Hope everything will be fine.
That’s good to hear, Holic.
all the best to you and yours ‘holic
Eandy, Trains aren’t so terribly bad π But I share your regret. Work the night before and the night of the game π
I only knew one hippopotamus, abb: this one.
http://www.liberation.fr/societe/0101299169-retour-sur-l-hippopotame-tueur-de-pessac-komir-etait-jaloux-du-tracteur-c-est-certain
He was the mascot for the zoo (imagine I saw him when I was still living around there, so more than 18 years before the incident!)
He ended up killing the zoo’s director.
Oh, and ABB, I am here all the time usually lurking.
Just kidding.
I come here late in the evening, back-drinking like a maniac, then feeling so exhausted (considering my English), that I do not have any strength to come up with anything rational to post. But I am here, all the time, don’t worry.
Speaking of worries, I haven’t seen Gooner Terry or Clive lately. And Snir’s energy is missing.
Even Cusop is not around here like he used to be this time last year:)
approach chips outta leo burdocks with extreme caution
vinegar fumes so severe i sneezed over the whole lot
tears streaming outta me face
–
beer
mmmmm slurpy durpy
All the best ‘H.
Better article:
http://www.sudouest.fr/2012/07/22/komir-l-hippopotame-et-le-maudit-tracteur-776170-3034.php
I was sitting at one of the soul-less UK regional airports the other day, reflecting on how it has come to this.
By “this”, I mean the general lack of anticipation I was feeling for the next Arsenal fixture.
It shouldn’t be like this I told myself – (I notice I have been having these imaginary conversations a lot these days – proof, if it was needed, that I could start an argument in an empty house).
Anyway, I chided myself, you are forgetting the fundamental truth, or at least starting to lose perspective, because whatever angst we may be feeling about our team’s present predicament, on the evolutionary scale of football development and achievement, we are still light-years ahead of the swamp-dwellers who are due to darken our doorstep come Saturday lunchtime.
Old timers tell me tales of how the LWCs were once the big cheese.
How the world has changed since the Totts had their monochromatic moment of fame. Man has walked on the moon, children have been born in test tubes, the continent of Europe has been re-drawn, and the communications revolution has shrunk the planet to the size of a village, with more than its fair share of electronic idiots. Inevitably, from time to time they find their way here.
They come and witter on about power shifts and gaps, bookmakers odds and prematurely ejaculate all over the internet about their latest liberator, another in a long line of tactical geniuses ready to outwit Arsene Wenger. Their latest spokesman is none other than Stephan Freund. A man whose career high at Tottenham was a 9th placed finish tells you all you need to know about that mob’s gap-closing capability. Not that we should expect them to be capable of “doing the math”. Ask them to count to fifty, (rounded down for the lesser primates along the Seven Sisters Road) and they develop a twitch reminiscent of their lately departed court jester.
For deep down they know their place, they know the immutable truth, that they will forever be in our shadow.
And we should never let them forget it either.
For as much as we may not agree on the road we need to take to build our next championship winning side, we can surely agree that we will not need to leave instructions for the generations fifty years hence, on how to operate a DvD. π
There.
I’m feeling better already.
Nice one, zico. You’ve made me feel better too. π
Well i see all the Optimists have recovered from the comedy capers against Fulham last weekend,and are once again clinging on by their fingernails to the hope that what the Arse have produced on the pitch recently has been a bad dream.
Well i am afraid you are in for a rude awakening this w/end against the Spuds.
Having already taken the odds of 8-1 from my bookie that the Arse won’t make the top 4,I’ve now asked him for a price on them not making the top 6.!!
Their confidence is completely shot,and with Montpellier getting a point against PSG last w/end which will lift their morale no end,I’ve also asked him to give me odds on the Arse not making the knockout round of the CL.!!
You cannot deny what you see with your own eyes.
The old saying,’ There is none so blind as those who cannot see’ is an apt description of the majority in the bar.
I think you all know in your hearts that this is not the real Arsenal,but a pale imitation going through the motions.
Those ex players who wore the shirt with pride and sweated blood for the Club,must be mortified.
Here we are in mid November and the Players and the supporters,
[ If they are being honest ] know that the Title is already a pipedream.
AHOMT
The Bloke with the long speech @ 532,
How did the Spuds do at Man Utd recently.??
Turned up,played with belief and pride in the shirt,played as a TEAM,
and won 3-2.
The Arse.??
Didn’t turn up,didn’t play with belief or pride in the shirt,most definitley DID NOT play as a TEAM,and lost 2-1,which if Utd had taken their chances could have been 6.!!
AHOMT
Careful Arse. Most cannot see that tongue firmly in your cheek π
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So many excellent comments above…I still don’t really know how I feel about things other than frustrated.
I wondered aloud, just to address our issues, how many of our first choice eleven are legitimately ‘Top 3’ class. I know that’s very subjective but I think it allows us to concentrate or either where we need to be patient, need to spend or need to try a different route. I’m grading the positions as yes/probably/potentially (not yet)/no. Would these players make it into the first 11 at City, United, Chelsea? This only looks at our first eleven of course:
GK – Sczs – potentially – *in 18-36 months. I don’t see him as a top 3 keeper today
LB – Gibbs – probably – if fitness allows him to play he is one of the best in the league
CD – Koscielny – probably – based on last season yes, this season to be determined. I’d lean toward yes.
CD – Mertresacker – yes – I think he’s one of the best in the league
RB – Sagna – yes – *fitness concern, but genuinely world class
CM – Arteta – probably – he shouldn’t be your most important player but is good at what he does but won’t be getting better with age
CM – Wilshere – yes – assuming a full return to proven levels
CM – Cazorla – yes – he’d earn a place in any of the top 3 sides and be a star
LM – Podolski – no – based on what I’ve see so far, jury still out
RM – Walcott – potentially – I still think the best is to come, a recent change of heart from me
CF – Giroud – undecided, but probably not good enough for a top 3 team. I’d love to be wrong.
So we have
4 yes – good enough for a top 3 team
3 probably – good enough to be close to a starting spot, not an automatic choice
2 potentially – not today, not in 2012, perhaps later
1 no – not a top 3 starter
1 undecided – Chances are Giroud is not top 3 standard but I’d be thrilled to be proven wrong
At present then we probably have 5-7 players good enough and 2 or 3 that might get there. One of whom may be leaving in six weeks. I’m also probably grading Arteta highly as he is so key for us, but better further up the field.
A (very) debatable first 11 for each side in order.
GK – Hart, Cech, De Gea, SCZS
LB – Cole, GIBBS, Evra, Clichy
RB – SAGNA, Kolarov, Ivanovic, Rafael,
CD – Vidic, Kompany, MERTRESACKER, Terry,
CD – Ferdinand, Luiz, KOSCIELNY, Lescott
CM – Toure, Mikel, ARTETA, Carrick,
CM – WILSHERE, Ramires, Cleverley, Barry,
CM – Oscar, CAZORLA, Augero, Kagawa
LM -Rooney, Hazard, Balotelli, PODOLSKI
RM – Mata, Valencia, WALCOTT, Nasri
CF – RvP, Tevez, GIROUD, Torres
I’d love to see what you think of my nonsensical ramblings. Having written this I only see us having one of the top 2 players in a position at 4 spots and I’m rating Gibbs highly.