Arsene Fights Back, Or The Last Supper?
Dec 14th, 2012 by 'holic
It seems cruel that Arsenal do not have a match until Monday night. Idle hands and minds are concentrated on the ills of a bad week rather than the anticipation of an opportunity to start the process of winning hearts and minds all over again. I am aware of the irony that this piece, and my contribution to this morning’s Arsecast, follow a similar direction.
At his presser Arsene was clearly a man for whom the adjective irked was invented. His early defiance was unfortunately misplaced, overlooking as he did defeat to Championship side Burnley in the same competition just four years ago. In dismissing the value of the competition he perhaps overlooks the fact that it was the most realistic shot at a trophy we have with this squad.
“In sixteen years it is the first time we go out to a lower division (team) in any cup competition…Our season will not be judged on how well we do in the Capital One Cup, but how well we do in the Premier League, the Champions League and the FA Cup.”
I’m sure there is a universal understanding of the ranking of the tournaments in terms of priority, but Arsene clearly understood that by his team selection on Tuesday he gave added importance to the competition. It is because his strongest available team failed so spectacularly to better a much lower-ranked side that he finds himself in the eye of this latest storm. That selection gave supporters hope and expectation ahead of the COCup quarter-final, and therefore has magnified the response to the abject performance that followed.
You could sense the hackles rise when pressed on his relationship with Steve Bould on the back of some rather bitter comments by an under-achieving ex-Gunner.
“We are a united staff and team. You can unfortunately not control all the lies that are written in the newspapers. I believe it is a good opportunity to show that we are strong inside the club and let people talk. We are criticised when our results are not good – we have to take that on the chin, but that we have to face a lot of lies is less acceptable.”
That pretty much set the tone for what followed. Asked about how quickly his team could recover from the Bradford performance the boss insisted, and why wouldn’t he, that the time for looking back on that night had passed.
โWe are top professional people. What is important is what happens tomorrow, not what happened yesterday. We are sorry for that but what is important is the next game.โ
That was the only offer of an apology put forward, and one is not necessarily due to those of us who watched the match from a comfortable sofa whilst slurping beer. I would suggest that the 4500 hardy souls who made the trip on a foul night deserve a little better.
A strange question about the effect of the Bradford defeat on Theo Walcott’s contract situation brought out the dismissive side in the manager. There was genuine irritation in the response.
“Honestly I do not always understand your way of thinking. I cannot see that… How should the Capital One Cup impact on the desire for a player to be part of the long term future of the club?”
Arsene rarely puts his press inquisitors down in such a fashion. We are told regularly he is generous with his time where the press are involved, and usually humorous and good company. You could sense the sniggers around the room when he inventively derided the questioner as ‘parrotic’.
Pressure makes people react in different ways sometimes, and this seems an example that things are starting to get to him. Sometimes though his protection of his players are just as incomprehensible to those who have watched this squad stumble around for over a third of the season.
“I have a strong squad, I believe we have a very strong team. It is down to us to prove me right.”
Just once I would like to hear an admission, without naming names,ย that we are not where he expected us to be right now. The myth that we play the beautiful game has been exposed this season. Shorn of Fabregas and van Persie in consecutive summers, we persist with a formation geared to their strengths. Square pegs have been knocked into round holes as we have attempted to cope without the serially injured, and the mysteriously absent. His loyalty to his charges is admirable, but it shows little sign of being repaid.
Asked if he had spoken to Stan Kroenke this week, Arsene responded with one word, no. Questioned further about being left to front up and take the flak Arsene had the assembled chuckling again.
“I am here for that, and you do it very well.”
The point of who is responsible for what was developed, and responded too in such a passionate way that the desire to see this man turn things around is heightened.
“My job is to be determined and give importance to what is important. What is important is I love football, I love this club and I give my best for this club. The rest, I cannot interfere with…Believe me, I am highly focused on doing that and all the rest, that doesn’t interfere with my thinking at all…I am very determined and very hungry and if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t sit in front of you.”
Right there is the crux of the matter. Arsene’s belligerent defence of his team and himself is falling on many deaf ears right now. There is, possibly for the first time, an acceptance that the number of supporters disaffected has reached a significant level. Virtually all of us are really in the dark about who is really responsible for the underinvestment in the football side of the business, but only improved performances and results will stop us speculating about the running of the club, and the position of the owner, his executives, and our manager.
Without investment, that improvement seems unlikely. As Theo might put it, we have become consistently inconsistent. Few are asking for the club to take the Leeds route and splash cash we don’t have. Many are incensed that we have not spent the money we do have. The consequences of an under-resourced team falling out of the top four are clear. The big questions the manager faces right now are in his head and his heart, not coming out of the mouths of the popular press.
Does anybody really not want our greatest ever manager to find the right answers one more time? I cannot believe that, any more than I believe that he won’t fall on his sword if he fails.
262 Responses to “Arsene Fights Back, Or The Last Supper?”
Drink!!!
Just off for one, not a cunt who isn’t from Potters bar ๐
Have a good one! See ya Monday!! ๐
Respectful counterpoint, ‘Holic:
I have never once expected a coach or manager to be honest about his team to the media, particularly in the negative. While you could argue that it would do well for fans to hear apologies/admissions/lashings, the truth is none of the 4,500 who made the trip would feel any better if an apology was given (look at the derision given to Ivan’s). In fact, there’s nothing that can be said by Arsene that will make anyone feel better, up to and including finally coming out with the “truth” about what’s going on at the club. I know it seems sometimes like having our experience acknowledged and validated would be some salve, but it always ends up being unsatisfactory, if not downright destructive (better delusional/paranoid than apologetic and out of answers).
People are pissed because of what’s taking place on the pitch, and they won’t feel any better until the results get better. All the ink and hot air spilt between now and the moment things are on the up are the product of a lot of people’s compulsive need to fill in those tedious, dreary hours between Arsenal matches. I have the compulsion too, and will until some brilliant arsehole finally invents a time machine.
Does anybody really not want our greatest ever manager to find the right answers one more time?
I honestly feel bad for anyone who doesn’t. Because if you are an Arsenal fan, and would rather be “right” about Wegner than see that man succeed, then I worry for your mortal soul.
We have plenty of quality on the pitch but more often than not the players don’t look like a committed unit….a team, & that’s something that comes from the coach. Something is broken at AFC & AW has to be part of that so he isn’t the person to put it right. Managers with far less experience are getting far better responses from teams with less tallented players & way smaller budgets.
Top 5? Nice post holic.
Great post ‘holic, just watched the press conference too.
He’s not happy as best I can tell, but even now in perhaps his darkest hour at the club his loyalty to his players both individually and as a collective is quite remarkable. The mission must remain to keep the pressure off of them, more importantly we have no idea how things are at training and in the dressing room post Bradford.
Also listened to the arsecast. A good debate and won that left blogs almost speechless in agreement that things need to change. In part I wish the transfer window opened tomorrow but as it’s a January window my expectations are tempered. I really hope the emphasis is on quality this time over quantity, one huge signing could in truth change our season more significantly than two or three ‘good’ ones. We need goals…it’s that simple. I keep debating with myself if it’s the supply line or a striker that is required – and return to the former – a player like Cesc (as if) is what we miss most.
god….not awake yet – above ‘won’ = ‘one’
I don’t listen to the Arsecast that much, but I gave it a whirl this afternoon. It seems that the general concensus is that AW may not be able to turn it around.
I’m afraid I’ll have to disagree with one thing you’ve said above, I personally can’t see AW falling on his sword, no matter what.
I’ll get into it more later, gotta dash.
WEll in cfpb!
11!!
Nice post Holic.
Just finished listening to the Arsecast which I think was pretty balanced and entertaining as ever .
I do accept that some people who have stood in Arsene’s corner are finally beginning to shuffle position (Gilbertosilver). And of course there are others who have completely turned (Tim Clark). And others, like yourself, still remain somewhat patient and I, for one, am grateful for that.
I think its sad to see such u-turns.
I think our problems are on the offensive side. I have been critical of Wenger in the past, but its mainly been down to our persistent shortcomings on the defensive side and while I don’t think we’ve exactly cured that either, I do think its better. But on the offensive side – the high turnover in players has meant we are just a few months in this season still trying to get a team to click – many of whom have never played with each other: Cazorla, Giroud, Poldi are all new; Jack & Thomas are just back from Injury; Arteta is in the wrong position; and when we combine that with the inconsistency of both Theo and Gervinho – its not been an easy task.
The RVP factor has been enormous and is at the heart of our problems – but really, was there any other option except to let him leave? And people say “we should sign a centre forward” as we’ve buckets in the bank, but players like that don’t grew on trees.
If we take, for example, Ridamel Falcao. 70m will not buy Falcao. He’ll cost north of 40m in a transfer fee alone and will command circa 200 – 300k a week in wages. That’s circa 100m over a four year period. Thats the type of money really top strikers cost these days. So we’re just not in the same market as others for these players which means we have to be smarter with our money.
If you take Huntelaar, lets say the transfer fee costs 6m. I would imagine his wages will be north of 100k a week meaning the cost of that transfer will be 20-25m depending on whether is a 3 or 4 year deal. He represents value – but thats still alot of money.
Maybe its just me, but I feel entertaining such numbers is a sign of the real insanity in the industry at the moment – and that Wenger represents one of the few who retain some semblance of balance in all of this.
Good post ‘holic. You’re far more patient, hopeful, and forgiving than I am at the moment.
Grab a beer and a sandwich first. Itโs a long oneโฆ
Not particularly. I’m sure you’ve done much longer.
Nevermind Wind ๐
Absolutely adore Wenger. What he has done is remarkable, what he stands for is even greater. I will always respect him as a man. I’ll always know he will have been, in his glory days and in his not as great days, a better manager than I would ever have been.
I am still in the Joe camp. Give this new look team a bit more time to settle and hope that the new sponsorship money under one of the best men ever to manage a football club will solve this.
But then again, time is running short, so is my patience. Arsenal for me is, needless to say (what a sad expression that is!), much bigger than Wenger, but I’ll stick with him for a while longer because of not what he has done, but what I still believe he is doing for the club. Perhaps nowadays he doesn’t deliver results but in the end I hope he will have delivered a good enough platform for me to enjoy (and get outraged!) about this club when I’m 83 years old as well as today.
But for fucks sake. Let’s win the next game. We really need it. I really need it.
Joe @12,
“If you take Huntelaar, lets say the transfer fee costs 6m. I would imagine his wages will be north of 100k a week meaning the cost of that transfer will be 20-25m depending on whether is a 3 or 4 year deal. He represents value โ but thats still alot of money.”
I agree that we can’t afford Falcao. But we can afford KJH (Huntelaar) and we should get him. I’m still not convinced about Giroud, KJH is an upgrade, we have the money for KJH, Flipper is not a CF, and since AW will not play either Poldi or Theo as a CF we need more depth and clinical finishing from that position.
Interesting and thoughtful post Holic. We are in a very distressing situation at the moment – hopefully Arsene can pull the fat out of the fire.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I really hope AW can turn it around, but all of our problems are of our own making, we’ve made a lumpy bed with sheets fashioned from goats hair and a pillow full of nails, the sleeping on it pretty much sucks and that is the price we are now paying.
It’s not years of gross mismanagement to blame, just failing to identify the smaller problems that many could see but noone within the club acted on. Little things that like a finger sized hole in the proverbial dyke (oo-er) grew to fist size and is now threatening to burst.
Do I want AW to turn it around? Ofcourse I do, nothing would please me more.
Do I think he can? Well, for the first time I think you’ll have to put me in TS’s jury’s out column.
i fear we are in for a long cold winter. haven’t got time for wenger to be proved right because it’s never going to happen with current dross we have at the club at the moment. if they’re not injured then they will be played out of position. guardiola wants the job according to his spin. we should be doing everything we can to get him before he ends up at chelsea or man utd. wenger has gone stale. you could find clips of him going on about the strength and desire of the team from 6 years ago and nothing has changed. it’s time to change the record.
You call that a long drink?
Remind me not to get lost in the desert wid ya ๐
Back later with an opinion that ain’t worth a rat’s fart……bit like that Kanadian’s 8)
I wanted Arsene to find the right answers 3 years ago, 2 years ago and last year.
I want him to find the answer now but he won’t because he’s lost. If he truly believes when he says that we have a strong squad and a very strong team then he’s not acknowledging the problem.
No excuses
“Bouncing back”. If they gave me a pound every time I hear Arsene said that I would be in Kroenke’s place now.
And how can you bounce back from Bradford? By demolishing poor little Reading five – nil. And then everything will be hunky dory.
Perhaps the saddest piece i have seen from you ‘holic but I thoroughly ech your sentiments at the end. For all he has done for this club i want Wenger to be viewed with the respect and acclamation he deserves not as someone who was a busted flush who went on far too long.
Sometimes however good a leader has been there comes a time when he no longer has new or appropriate words to say that the players haven’t heard before. You can stay somewhere too long and 16 years is an eternity in football particularly when the last half of that time has seen a real dimming of the light and an increasing frailty in the team,
Every transfer window is portayed as crucial but this one will decide the legacy that Wenger leaves. If he fails to do the necessary as has been increasingly the case it may prove a desperately sad postscript to a marvellous reign.
Another 8 years then?
bloody sad day in America….something needs to change.
football…meh
Tragic indeed Tim.
Tim,
Yes. The world is a dark place. Things need to change in people’s minds that stops this madness of senseless mindless destructive violence in the world. Things are not right at AFC but western culture continually hits a new low. Humanity and the way we deal with others in this world is just disgusting. Sad beyond for those families in Connecticut.
Great post ‘Holic.
I also listened to the Arsecast earlier. I was very impressed with what both you and Gilberto Silva had to say, and I felt that both Arsene’s strengths and weaknesses were dealt with in a very fair and balanced way. I’m afraid I was less impressed with Tim Clark – once people start spouting platitudes about having “lost the dressing room” then I’m afraid they lose me.
Apart from a silly anecdote from my childhood, I’ve stayed well away from the, at times, bitter debate that has raged since Bradford as to the reasons for the perceived stasis that currently characterises the Club. The reasons for that absence were manifold. Firstly, I didn’t want to get drawn into silly arguments on line when positions necessarily become far more entrenched with the written word than they ever do, or should ever do, over a Beer down the Pub. Secondly my own thoughts as to Arsene are more conflicted than they have ever been at any time during his reign, and I have found it hard to extract a cogent line of thought from that jumble. Thirdly, I find the constantly rehashed arguments – whether it be pro or anti Arsene – at every setback (excusable though the outpouring of angst was after a performance like the one at Bradford) just a little bit tedious. It has all been said before.
My absence, however, does not mean I have not been interested, and I have read most of the comments here. Whether that is a broad enough section of the support to form a view as which way the wind is blowing with the fanbase as a whole is questionable, but it seems to me that there has been a little bit of everything. At the one extreme there are those that show up only in defeat and whose appetite to stick the knife in appears to be apparently insatiable. Then there are the reasoned arguments as to why AW should go and equally reasoned arguments as to why he should stay. Finally we come to the other extreme of head-in-the-sand “everything is hunky-dory” poppycock at the other end.
Luckily this blog, for the most part, attracts those somewhere in the middle, both for and against. To those on the two extremes the sheer welter of words on both sides of the coin should suggest that the certainties that they expound are anything but. Both arguments can call on credible lines of rationale that the other side finds it difficult, if they are being completely honest, to rebut.
Me? I still desperately want him to succeed. As both ‘Holic and cdoyle have already mentioned, if you don’t, then you are either not an Arsenal fan, or you are someone for whom the argument, and the resolution of that argument in your favour, has become more important than the welfare of the Club itself.
Why do I want him to succeed? Because he embodies so much that is good in the increasingly amoral world of The Premiership. I like the man, I like the man hugely, and my analysis may not come down to anything more than that. An instinctive admiration for the way he goes about things and an everlasting gratitude for the football that he has given me.
Will he do so? I don’t know and I have my doubts. The gap between ourselves and the financially doped Clubs (and I include Man Utd in that description because of their debt) is large and likely to get larger. It has been a constant refrain in recent years that we were “not far away”. It was a refrain that I agreed with. I’m not sure that’s true any more. Whilst I will never agree with the “seven years of failure” mantra expounded by many, we have certainly failed since the summer of 2011, and at a push, the summer of 2010. One thing that Holic said in the Arsecast that resonated was that there was unlikely to be much of a spend in January because Arsene might be preparing for a big spend in the Summer. Weren’t we saying the same thing this time last year? In the event we came out of the last transfer window with a profit, and it is that sense of stasis, of deja vu, that is contributing to the hole that AW finds himself in.
I was asked on here once, probably in the summer of 2011, what it would take for me to change my mind re the management of the Club. I replied then that 2 seasons without challenging for a trophy would lead to me asking questions. We didn’t challenge for anything last season, and it’s hard to see us challenging for anything this season. I don’t expect to win anything (I watched too many meaningless games in the seventies and the first half of the eighties for that), but I do now expect (an expectancy brought about solely by Arsene) to challenge.
For that reason this season does have the smell of an end of an era. Whether that ultimately turns out to be a good or a bad thing who can tell, but for as long as he is here, Arsene will get my support. It is the least he deserves.
Come on Arsenal.
Well said TaBS.
I don’t have the benefit of a local pub in which I can discuss my passion over a beer. Only my wife and kids will humor me in a discussion about Arsenal and the kids don’t drink.
The one place I do have that pleasure do discuss the club is right here and I thank all of you for that.
Next drinks are on me. Cheers
Super stuff ‘h.
Cheers NorCal. Guinness please ๐
I hardly need to read tabs’ post to say that I agree with him ๐
Agree TaBS. At the start of the season I was agnostic but after Bradford I am a non believer hoping to be converted back. I can accept in a cup game that a lower league team can get lucky and get a result against a Premier League team however I cannot accept that a 4th tier team can outplay a Premier League team and Bradford deserved their victory. The final straw for me was taking Coquelin off and leaving, in particular, Gervinho and Ramsey on the pitch. I am not one of the Ramsey hate mob, in fact I believe he can be an Arsenal great once he works through his run of poor form provided the hate mob do not succeed in driving him out of the club. Conquelin invariably provides commitment and drive and to remove that from the pitch in that game was truly shocking. I have attended most home and away games this season but was unable to go to Bradford so watched the game on TV up until that substitution when I turned it off fearing the inevitable.
TaBS – you sum it up for me far more eloquently than I could ever do. On the nail, mate. There’s a double Glenmorangie on the bar for you mate – no ice, and I’ll add a wee drap o Highland Spring, myself.
Slainte.
And for pity’s sake, the grandees of the Gun Lobby in the USA should be taken out and shot.
watched the game on TV up until that substitution when I turned it off fearing the inevitable.
I have one massive objection to that though. Admittedly it’s more bringing Rosicky on that made the difference, but after you turned the telly off is when we started playing and actually equalised ๐
So frankly, the facts say that this sort of narrative is nothing but a clichรฉ. (I mean ‘the inevitable’ – assuming you imply it’s what happened….)
– note that I was equally baffled and disappointed by that sub, and I expected Gervinho to be the one to come off if Chamakh was coming on, so I’m not objecting to you complaining about that substitution.
I love that idea at 36, baff. Sounds only right.
Some fine people in this evening. Thanks all. Had a good night with the neighbours, now about to do the Tuesday Club Bradford podcast.
Don’t listen to the dozy old twonk spouting corporate bollocks on the arsecast ๐
In the Stadium or in Swindon you are surrounded by lovely neighbours it seems ๐
Bath and Ollie,
Gun control in this country is long overdue. I don’t disagree with you at all but it is just a piece of it. Earlier today a man in china stabbed 22 children outside a school. More people are killed by machetes every year in the world than with guns.
The disregard for human life is mind boggling. As a physician here in the states I can’t even begin with what I see humans do to one another. It is just sad.
Video games and TV and movies that sensationalize the drapravity of humans are a part of it too. We see it as entertainment. Disgusting.
Off my soap box. Sorry.
Spot on ‘holic and couldn’t agree more.
For me, Arsene’s continued over-bearing dominance of all the coaching at Arsenal is now the major problem with our club. All the continued talk of money not being spent, board mis-cooperation with transfers and contracts, etc are all red-herrings that do not explain our on-field consistent inconsitency. Football has moved on in so many ways on the field of play and on the training ground as others in English football have adopted what Arsene so innovatively began in the 90’s.
All premier clubs, coaches and managers have further evolved his innovation to a place now were they are arguably better at it than he now is in some fundamental areas, or now find it very easy to dismantle his tactical effectiveness; even from the lower league level.
Where Arsene now has to seriously realise where his failing lies at the very top level is on the coaching side. Alex Ferguson realised this very early on the early 90’s and has always surrounded himself with competent, energetic, hungry and practical coaches to take over the training sessions every few seasons. Arsene’s pride, some might call it arrogance but i like to call it self-confidence, and lack of personal insight into this deficiency is sadly now ending his unbelievable legacy both at Arsenal and in football. SAF on the otherhand, continues to flourish well into his pensionable years as he focuses on what he still knows he does very well; man-management, motivating players and discipline.
It’s quite ironic really since Arsene’s globally renowned for discovering, developing and giving young players opportunities but never has he done the same for young coaches. That for me is where he has failed miserably in his Arsenal and footballing career. Had Arsene also focused on regularly bringing in new coaches, educating them and allowing them to develop under his tutorage, he would be benefitting from their youthful ideas, motivation and ambition right now such as SAF continues to do so. Until Arsene recognises this (and I’m afraid that I don’t think that he will now), the playing side of our club will continue to regress while others continue to close the gap and move further away. Unless Arsene relieves himself of full coaching duties, or is relieved, and replaced by younger and more innovative models akin to the Arsene-model of the 90’s, the decline will continue. Whether he will choose to fall on his own sword? I doubt that because of his personal pride and hunger to be a successful alpha-male in life. However, a slight respectful nudge upstairs might be best for one and all in this seminal moment. Victoria Concordia Crescit.
Utterly, utterly horrid day in Connecticut! Why oh why do they not do something about those feckin’ gun laws! Sickening and a brief look at one’s own kids before going to bed should give us all done perspective on what really matters in life. May they all rest in eternal peace.
Me? I still desperately want him to succeed.
I don’t get this attitude but see it all over the place. Why him and not the club?
I’m not having a go I just find it odd that so many people seem unable to believe that he is not actually all that important in the grand scheme of things and that having a successful club/team is what actually matters. That it might be best for the club if he went.
It’s like Arsene first, Arsenal second.
If I could guarantee to you (a general you, meaning Arsene fans) that if Wenger was fired, we would definitely win the league next year and the CL within three, would you still want him to stay on anyway?
Top Post Tabs.
Every syllable resonates…!
I have a nip of vintage rum, my newest tipple that I found amid the celtic whisky vaults. And Ms Catherine Jenkins is singing “away in a manger” in a minidress, on the telly.
Oral, Aural and Visual sensations collide and intermingle!
Don’t you just love Christmas..!
Evening all holic. Holic, Very thoughtful piece. I listened to you on Arsecast also. It is no wonder he chose to start with you. Then I listened to Pedro doing an interview. Hmm. Your last paragraph sums up the major difference between you and him. That and the fact he is a bit naรฏve ๐ I would suggest all the players and Steve Bould stand next to AW during the next presser, take what ever flak comes their way. I don’t give up on players easily ๐ even though some have really left me shaking my head ๐ My heart is still with Arsene, but my confidence in him being able to stop us circling down the drain, is badly shaken. ๐ And sadly, I believe he is not being given full reign to prevent just that ๐
I don’t think any of us see anyone bigger than the club but surely Arsene deserves the right to correct things if some still feel he has the ability to. You clearly don’t, and I for one now agree with you, but it may take a little more time for others to turn to your side and that’s quite understandable considering all that he’s done. For me, I want him to succeed again at the club with him still having a significant role in the proceedings of that success. It would be sad if the next incumbent was to revel in the future successes and Arsene’s grand work leading up to it is forgotten by those not so informed (similar to Rjikaard and Guardiola benefitting from the work of previous Barcelona managers). Arsene must end on a high with our club even if it means he isn’t part of the playing side any longer.
Terry Neill stood at the dug-out.
He had on one of those ubiquitous sheepskin coats that all football managers and their ilk wore back in the day, and he was clearly cursing at the errant ginger-headed centre back who had delivered a generous invitation to the onrushing centre forward who knocked the ball past a despairing George Wood.
The collective groan was as loud as it was predictable.
I remember thinking at the time, “it’s all very well gnashing and wailing at Willie, but the reality is, Mr Manager, he isn’t really good enough”.
Today, I see a guy agitated, striding up, down and around the technical area (the day of the dug-out, long gone) with the same anguished expression and in my heart of hearts, I find myself coming to the same conclusion that, fundamentally, the players just aren’t good enough. Certainly not good enough to win the league, and it would seem, probably not even good enough to scratch the seven year itch.
We can agonise all day long about how unfair the world is, with financial doping at the heart of the matter, but we all have to live with it. It would seem that there is now a broad consensus that spending money come January is a pre-requisite, but, to my mind, with a limited financial reach that will only get us players of a certain bracket, and certainly not of the calibre to induce a step-change in our fortunes of the order required.
If we conclude that the players are ultimately not good enough, do we also conclude that the manager is not good enough? The Arsenal Board certainly did in the case of Terry Neill whose side suffered a “shock” defeat in the League Cup to third division Walsall, precipitating the lonely walk out the door at Highbury.
The problem, now, however is that the current Arsenal Board have shown no visible signs that they have the expertise or imagination to replace our most successful ever manager, and frankly, the thought of what they might come up with wakes me up at night, shaking in a cold sweat.
Norcal @41, I cannot disagree with your observations about the insidious effect of popular culture and sadly for too many individuals irrational violence is a part of human nature. The availability of weapons largely determines the outcome. Machetes shouldn’t be readily available either. The only weapon that should be readily available to the general public should be a Trichinella infected sausage (cf Virchow vs Bismarck).
Nonny @ 44
No.
Cheers for the kind ones Ollie, Bath, Joe and Joeos.
Agree with you at 36 Bath. Whilst I take NorCal’s point that human beings can inflict horrendous damage in a multitude of ways on each other, the chances are that a person entering a school is going to cayse far less damage than a person with two shotguns. The events in the US are horrendous, but they will continue to occur at alarmingly frequent intervals for as long as gun laws that have more in kee[ping with the Wild West than a civilised society.
Nonny@44 , of course I want Arsenal to succeed before any personal attachment to Arsene. If you could guarantee what you said you could, then yes, of course I would want him to go. It is , with respect, a stupid question. I was an Arsenal fan long before Arsene turned up and will remain an Arsenal fan long after he’s gone.
You can’t however give me that guarantee. It MIGHT be best if he were to go. That is clearly your belief and you are entitled to it. I have acknowledged in my post that those who argue for that outcome have some credence to their arguments. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I have yet to see you acknowledge that those on the opposite side of the debate to you have anything useful to say or that Arsene is anything other than a busted flush.
I nearly wrote that the primary reason I wanted Arsene to succeed was because it meant that Arsenal were succeeding. In the end I didn’t, because I thought it was too obvious.
Tabs, As always, such a pleasure to read your thoughts. Paragraph 5, however, I can’t fully endorse. Mind, I get what you’re saying. I do believe there are those who respect Arsene and would under different circumstances, want him to stay. But Arsene has made some tactical decisions that defy logic, at times. So therefore, I can’t find fault with those who are calling for him to step aside. It’s not where I’m at (yet), but I see where their coming from ๐
Zico,
I’m still not clear as to what your conclusion is?
I understand your thinking that we’re not competitive…..
And your contention that we don’t have the financials to buy the necessary players to make us competitive for the league and CL…..
But apart from Gazidis & Co, do you think Wenger should go, all things considered ?
Sorry, didn’t read my second para before posting. Should have read …
… the chances are that a person entering a school WITH A MACHETE is going to cause far less damage than a person with two shotguns. The events in the US are horrendous, but they will continue to occur at alarmingly frequent intervals for as long as THE US HAS gun laws that have more in keeping with the Wild West than a civilised society.
Joe,
my conclusion is we are caught between a rock and a hard place.
This board could bow to fan and media pressure and sack Wenger tomorrow and appoint Mark Hughes.
zico,
I’ll have you know that my opinion ain’t half bad half the time. Case in point — I just went down to my local socialist subsidized government run monopoly in this God forsaken Kommunist Kountry to buy some fine imported produce from your homeland. Namely, Cardhu 12 year Speyside. And I had to pay through the nose for said produce. Some might say more than what it’s worth — not unlike a certain French manager spending @ ยฃ10.5m on a porpoise that’s lost its navigational control ๐
P.S. I’m thinking of changing my moniker to socratesinexile …
Merry Christmas zico. Cheers.
tabs,
Dunblane happened just up the road from me.
I agree with you on gun control but after what happened at Dunblane we don’t really have a claim to the moral high ground on civilised in this country.
Just saying.
Cracking post @ 28 btw.
Zico @49,
Why are so many fearful of the name that the board may choose to replace Arsene when the inevitable arises?! I really don’t foresee that being a concern.
Wrt the players not being good enough, I don’t believe that misconception. For me, they are not being prepared or utilised properly in EVERY match. Whether you believe its because of the manager/coach (which I personally feel it is) or because of the players themselves (which again i feel is down to the manager/coach to resolve with competent transfers, team selections, tactics and man-management on the training ground and during matches) is irrelevant; the problem has existed for several seasons now with a clear common denominator.
Nice post Dr Z. Ah George Wood eh. Bloody Scottish keepers ๐
Abb, not sure where we disagree.
I wish I had the time to comment on more of your thoughts, everyone. Really thought provoking comments, but I must get ready for work ๐ Zico, I read your piece with particular interest. Thing is, for the most part, I believe our players are GOOD ENOUGH. Either that, or I was doing hallucinatory drugs when I thought they played well, earlier on ๐ Your thoughts on the board I share. And if I’m wrong about them, it’s their fault. Because they have not been transparent enough. Which invariably leads to speculation, when information is not provided.
Cheers Bath.
By the way.I Don’t own a gun. Don’t want to.
This is not even close to the first occurence of unexplained mass killing here in the states. Hell 2 days ago a 20ish year old went into a mall in Oregon and emptied 60 rounds in the food court. 2-3 dead there. Something is desperately wrong with people’s views of a civilized society. Something is glorifying the murder/ suicide theme in these individuals minds. 24 hour news coverage and a perverse knowledge that you will be ” famous” if you do such a heinous crime only feeds their personalities.
Sad Sad Sad.
Zico,
So, ultimately you think he should go, but your not too certain that the board will appoint the right replacement?
Ah, bait – meet fish.
Stingy, funny how you appear on here when events on the field take a turn for the worse.
Probably just a co-incidence though. ๐
Dr Z, point taken re Dunblane. I really wasn’t trying to take any kind of moral high ground.
That said, how many similar incidents have occurred in the US since Dunblane and how many here? Far more difficult to get firearms here than there. Dunblane still resonates here because it is one of two/three such incidents. In the US it seems they are having to deal with such incidents on (at least) an annual basis.
Joe,
Ideally I think Arsene should bow out gracefully and deserves to do so.
As to “not too certain” about the Board making the right appointment, actually I am certain, hence why I worry (see #56)
DanC I think we have some good players, just not good enough in terms of what we aspire to and are competing against. I think the players we do have are better than the way they are performing (maybe Gervinho excepted) and would agree with you there is a common denominator.
The debate on gun laws is underpinned by one thing; we expect ALL human beings to behave the way we would, rational, compassionate and landed in psychological reality. Sadly, the world is not like that, or ever will be, in any of our lifetime. More of this will continue and every now and then when it happens on such a scale, we shall spout the usual lip-service with little practical substance behind it as the “human-rights” of those being challenged are upheld.
Zico, we certainly don’t have the morale high ground here in the UK but the possibility of such horrendous events occurring here is far less for obvious reasons.
No such thing as a ‘coin’-cidence when you’re talking about Arsenal & spending zico. You should know that ‘buy’ now ๐
Indeed tabs – don’t disagree.
It simply comes down to what’s at hand when an individual loses it, whether a momentary loss of control by a normally rational individual, the regular loss of control by the borderline psychopath (eg Barton) or the crisis of an untreated schizophrenic. If there is an automatic weapon or even a hand gun at hand then the consequences are liable to be far worse than if they have to resort to fisticuffs or verbal abuse.
Dunblane led to tightening up of shotgun licensing in the UK. One can never say there will never be another one but it is extremely unlikely.
No, not Mark ‘Sparky’ Hughes.
I fancy that suave, sophisticated, cosmopolitan, and urbane Dane — Michael Laudrup. He knows how to spot proper undervalued Spanish talent and make a fiesta from it.
You heard it here first!
Baff,
I bet there are more guns in this country now than there were prior to Dunblane. Remember that before Dunblane there was Hungerford and therefore Dunblane was supposed not to happen.
Again, just saying.
The US of A is clearly sick – doesn’t mean that we are not ailing on a smaller scale.
My heart goes out to the families of all affected.
Zico @66,
You might be correct about some of the players (particularly Gervinho) but I still think that many other “coaches” would probably get more out of these, relatively, technically inferior players in their “correct positions”. I sometimes feel that Arsene just buys players and lets them “wing-it” tactically thinking that they are of the same technical brilliance as those that have departed. All players and teams needs to “earn the right to play” first and foremost, and that’s drilled into them by their coaches and and man-manager. The technical skills they possess then give them that edge over the “ordinary” (e.g. league 2 players and sides). If you don’t do the first part right, then you’re fundamentally arrogant and not appreciating what team sports are all about.
Great points all. I appreciate the perspectives.
As I said, I totally agree with better gun control. Unfortunately, I don’t see that really happening with any real significance any time soon. Too many Americans own guns both legally and illegally. People would not just turn them in. As I said, I have never owned a gun but I know people here in California (where we do have stricter gun laws) who own a small Arsenal. Literally.
I am not trying to say that guns are not a part of the problem. They are, big time.
Again thanks for the discussion. I did appreciate it.
This has become my local pub. Too bad I often am sober here as I am usually at work when most of y’all are awake.
Yes y’all. I grew up in Dallas after all. ๐
Norcal @74,
Yeee ha! ๐
Roberto @71,
At least he’ll get rid of the deadwood Arsene’s too proud or struggling to shift. A one transfer window job me thinks then he can be offski!
Sad to hear the tragic news from Connecticut today. Events like those put our football club’s ‘problems’ into proper perspective.
My heart goes out to everyone affected in CT, USA today.
Norcal. I say confiscate all the guns and placate the owners with an equivalent amount of marijuana. Then arrest them for dealing in drugs. Not to be flip about the latest shootings but it makes me mad as hell that we allow this stuff to continue without doing anything about it.
Holic. Once again, an excellent, as well as “fair and balanced” post (not to be putting you in the same category as Rupert Murdoch’s TV network in the USA by any means. Their auto-description of course if “fair and balanced” when they are among the loudest critics of any sort of gun control or any other reasonable idea. Whoops! Forgot to not mention politics again. Auto yellow card!!
8ball,
Would have to make it Cocaine. Marijuana is legal in some states. Not that it matters, our prisons are too full to keep anyone else in them. It’s so bad here that we have had people arrested twice in one week for robbery because they are let out of jail within hours of committing the first robbery.
Anyone in London want to adopt a family of five?
Wind, you folks wouldn’t notice 5 more people living there, right?
We could go to more games!
Zico
“the current Arsenal Board have shown no visible signs that they have the expertise or imagination to replace our most successful ever manager”
Well, to my mind, they didn’t really show much visible signs initially that they were capable of overturning the thinking of a board that thought their type wasn’t needed around here and now Kronke is the majority shareholder! Of course Fismans Health unfortunately brought matters to a head, but the silent and secret way Stan went about all this was pretty bloody impressive from where I sit. Especially when you compare it to the aggressive share acquisition, slanted public statements and the now, pathetic PR lobbying (with TH14) that Usmanov has been reduced to.
I think you underestimate Kronke & Gazidis. If your only worry is that they might appoint some chump like Hughes, then I think you can certainly sleep safe at night Zico ! These guys are very sharp people.
Bough to media pressure? No, I can’t see that – they certainly havn’t bowed in the past.
Bough to fan pressure? If its transpires to a loss in revenue, then yes that will certainly get attention. But it’ll have to have a very public and financial pinch.
I agree with you in the sense that Wenger should be be given more time. But I also think, that no-one more than Stan Kronke knows, that the primary reason the share price is where it is today – is because of Wenger. And thats fundamentally down to his ability to keep the club at the higher element of the domestic and European competitions at a relatively low investment while at the same time make profits. Wenger is every investors dream and he’ll stay here until his unpopularity tips the balance in relation to the Revenue gained from fans. And Wenger knows this too. Unless of course, he decides enough is enough and voluntarily goes on the basis that he can no longer compete at the highest level and finish his legacy on some sort of positive.
Bow not “Bough”…
Joe. I was going to say “Deck the halls with bows of holly” but happily refrained in time. ๐
Joe,
I expect another 18 months of AW unless he is asked/ told to retire. He has stated a few times even in the past week that he has 18 months left on his contract and I don’t see him changing that. He will honor that contract. Will he make the changes necessary to make that 18 months more enjoyable for all of us? I don’t really know. I don’t doubt that he wants what’s best for the club but I also think that his vision may be clouded by his previous abilities to get us into 3rd or 4th the past few years.
I agree with ABB that the one thing that has really worried me this year is his tactical naรฏvetรฉ. Gerv at striker worked only because Gerv was in a little groove there for 5-6 games. He scored a few goals but none of them save one was actually scored with any real skill or authority. Since that patch he has missed goals that schoolboys score frequently. Also, leaving poldi out wide instead baffled me. Ramsey on the wing? These things are not working. Why keep trying? Diaby’s injury was unfortunate and I do think he tried to bring in Sahin in the summer as insurance so I will not jump on him for that. But I do think he needs to really change his thoughts in those next 18 months if he is to be at the helm. Otherwise I think a change will be made.
DanC @ 42,
Good post. I agree that AW hasn’t had a competent #2 for, well, whenever. You, or somebody, please tell me.
Pat Rice? Please. Good Arsenal man. Sure, I’ll give you that. But he was always a yes man. It looks like Bould is too.
That’s one of the problems at the club. AW has become a dictator ever since David Dein has left the club.
There’s a lot wrong with the club right now and it’s not getting better. The club is on a steady and consistent downhill slide. Absentee owner, dysfunction board, senile chairman, dictatorial manager that has become bigger than the club, manager that lacks tactical nous and has basically lost his once great touch.
Ali once floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee. He was once the heavyweight champion of the world. He also didn’t know when he was past it and hang up the gloves. He suffered excessive and unnecessary shots to the head and ended up punch drunk/contracting Parkinson’s.
AW is receiving shots today too — from the media. He also doesn’t know when to call it a day and step away with dignity. He is tarnishing his legacy but doesn’t have competent enough cornermen with the strength to throw in the towel.
Sadly, much like Ali, this story isn’t going to get any better. The most likely outcome, as Clubber Lang once succinctly responded after being asked for his prediction is, “Pain” ๐
TaBS 28
You sum it up well.
The best post I have read concerning our current situation.
Arsene Wenger’s values are wasted in the present scummy world of Premier league football.
He deserves so much more.
And if he parts with Arsenal now, I fear that decision may go some way to solving other clubs problems rather than our own. The sad truth is the gap to wealthy clubs has grown well beyond our sustainable limits.
Willie Young, Jeff Blockley, Gus Caesar, Chris Whyte, Igor Stepanovs…..we’ve had our fair share ๐
Have I missed anyone special?
Good stuff from many above.
Bough to media pressure? No, I canโt see that โ they certainly havnโt bowed in the past.
Bough to fan pressure? If its transpires to a loss in revenue, then yes that will certainly get attention. But itโll have to have a very public and financial pinch.
BANG, there it is.
Arsene is not gonna step down and the powers that be aren’t gonna get rid of him unless it all gets pretty messy.
We take great pride in how we conduct ourselves as a club, we are not the Chavs, nor are we the Swampdwellers, we don’t make decisions on a wim, but this is the flipside of that coin.
Like it or not Arsene is Arsenal, we can all say that no one man is bigger then the club and 99. 9% of the time that holds true, but that missing percentage is Le Boss. He is so woven into the fabric of what Arsenal is today, that if you think about it for too long it literaly is scary.
Name one other manager in Europes so called elite clubs that went 7 years without a trophey?
How many managers enjoy the power that AW has? He is in total controll of almost everything on a football level, from the coaching to the transfers, to the design of the dressing rooms to the players diets, hell he even had a say in how the stadium was built. He’s running the whole show…………………… and that’s, as I see it, the biggest problem.
Great managers know how to deligate, they surround themselves with the best to optimise their own performance, AW is a bit of a crap delegator, he wants to do it all, imho he’s taken way too much hay on his fork.
Whatever your opinion on Dein may be, there’s no denying that he helped AW by sharing the load, since his departure AW has felt he needs to do it all himself, this is what’s breaking him. No man should be asked to do what he does, he is the face, the boss, the saviour, the coach, the scout, the trainer, the negoitater and the fall guy all rolled into one. Now, I don’t know if he hasn’t been offered the support he needs, or that he just doesn’t want it, but, he cleary needs it.
For those who want change, I get it, I understand, but if you think that the board are gonna swoop down and can AW then you’ve been too busy standing on your soap box to pay attention to what has been going on at the upper level of the club. Stan is an unintefering chairman, he didn’t get the name Silent for nothing. Gazidis and Fox are for the commercial stuff. They have put AW in total control of the rest and that’s not going to change after a few dissapointing results.
I think the most any of us can realisticaly hope for is that AW brings in some new faces on the coaching staff to freshen things up, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
This is all ofcourse just my opinion and may change when the drink wears off tomorrow. ๐
Consistent humiliating results over the past two seasons:
1) MU 8-2 AFC
2) ACM 4-0 AFC
3) BC 1-1 AFC (3-2 PKs) under the circumstances — which we all know
At any big continental FC any of these results in isolation would have been stackable offences.
I could go into losing our best players whilst still in their primes during these last two seasons also but I’m on my iPhone and we all know the laundry list. Add to this his diminishing ability over time to find gems in the transfer market, lack of tactical acumen, diminishing man-management skills, worsening player selection decisions, inability/refusal to spend available funds, same old tired excuses, etc. — it all adds up to one thing:
It’s time for a change. It’s not working. It hasn’t worked for a long time now. This didn’t happen overnight and it’s been a slippery slope for quite some time now.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again whilst expecting a different result. I’ve seen this movie before, it ain’t my first rodeo, and I feel like that hamster in the wheel.
Arsene isn’t the only thing wrong with this club and he isn’t the biggest problem either. But his time has passed. It’s time to move on.
Nobody Is Bigger Than The Club (NIBTTC)
Up the Arse!!!
And one other damning Rafa fact (even though someone dismissed it in a totally illogical fashion recently):
AW assembled this squad of players. He did. Nobody else. Not the Easter Bunny. Not the Tooth Fairy. Not even Santa Claus. Now, I don’t have the figures for the current season but as of last season his squad’s wage bill was higher than Bayern Munich’s.
To me, that is damning. Go through each squad man for man & position for position. Bayern Munich’s squad is far better. It’s not even close.
Might I remind everyone that the club brought in the fifth largest revenues in world football last season.
There’s something rotten in Denmark and this time it’s not the cheese. Speaking of Denmark, bring in that Danish fella! That’s a start.
We already own that Danish fellow. The worlds greatest striker. And well…..
Papering
Over
The
Cracks
He’s on loan at Juve, NCA, as you well know. And can’t even get a game there. A team whose only weakness is striker. Even they won’t have him.
Funnily enough, the greatest striker who ever lived, could help us now. He’s better than Chamakh at CF and he’s better than Flipper/Worf at CF. And the common thread amongst all three = AW bought’em.
Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Didn’t Johan Cruyff say that? Wait, that’s not football. That’s my love life.
Roberto @various,
Interesting thoughts and I can’t disagree with much of it.
H2H @88,
Good stuff and I concur.
For Arsene to salvage his legacy and regain his rightful position as the one and only true rival of the managerial Demi-God that is SAF, he must do exactly what SAF realised many years ago and bring in competent help on the coaching and man-management sides. However, I really doubt that his blind stubbornness will allow him to see the plainly obvious; it will do so though in another 18 months.
Tabs knows @28 and just like him i’ve decided to stop repeating the same things over and over again.
oooh Cent-i Cazorla!
Geoff @87
I thought Willie Young wasn’t that bad but then I was comparing him against Terry Mancini
Kicks ball.
And leaves it standing on the 6-yard line until someone turns up to kick it in ๐
Tap in
Even Gervinho couldn’t have missed that one ๐
Cheers ‘holic! Totally agree with Tabs; thought you and GS were both fuckin’ excellent on yesterday’s ‘cast. And the other bod was a right twat, usual talking like we’re sitting in the bottom 3 bollox.
@ #28 & #49 in equal measure: passionate and eloquent.
I am as torn as both of you re: the greatest manager (who is also a very decent human being) that I have ever seen.
I want him to succeed, I want him to turn it around so that he can stick his ar*e and two fingers in the faces of the vultures in the fourth estate and the plastic haterz.
I have serious reservations that even he can do that now.
In the meantime, I shall get behind the team and watch what unfolds over the coming weeks.
UTA!
Washed up @ #97.
‘Holic does a decent defence (sic) of Mancini.
To be fair, I’ve seen worse (Stepanovs, Squilacci, etc.)
NorCal @ #84
Given the recent history and current situation, no manager, not even one who is as fiercely loyal to his contracts as Arsene, could survive another 18 months of what we’re going through now.
Only a significant up-turn in results on the field will keep him with us until the end of his contract. I doubt he’d want the pain and aggro either.
TS, especially with 14 minutes to consider what to do with the ball ๐
Well in Nonny.
And I believe you’re spot on at 105, TS.
Morning all,
Cheers Jez.
I am reminded this morning of a wise man. “You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.”
Cheers Ollie ๐
Nonny, please accept the #27 shirt. Unfortunately, the wages won’t follow with that honour.
The Scene : D L Ltd Boardroom
Professor Storey walks into the boardroom and stops abruptly in his tracks. At the head of the Boardroom table sits a man with wild staring eyes and completely clad in green.
Edwin : “What the f….?”
Dr Feelgood : “Problem, Professor?”
Edwin: “Err, not really, I’d forgotten Panto season was upon us, what is that you’re wearing, an elf outfit? ”
Dr Feelgood : “I think you will find, my learned friend, that this fetching shade is the new black, and very much de rigeur for the over-worked….”
Edwin “Emerald green?”
Dr Feelgood : “It’s jade, numbnuts, I’m jaded.”
Edwin: “You’re fucking mental. ”
Dr Feelgood: “That too. Anyway, I have a job for you. It will have no doubt failed to escape your attention that there is an increasing number of empty seats on the Happy Train, particularly on match day. I have therefore had to take some extreme measures.”
Edwin: “Such as?”
Feelgood: “Smallballs will no longer be able to use any of the facilities to model new speedoes or indeed any of that other tranny mischief “she” gets up to – I’ve converted “her” quarters into a gambling den, complete with roulette table.”
Edwin: “So what’s the job?”
Feelgood : “Find Wolfie and state the obvious……..he’s lost the Dressing Room….”
To be continued
Have been back drinking, and agreeing with lots that have been said, and then I read Dan @94, on AWs stubborness, which rang a bell
I used to work for an excellent software manager, who guided and developed excellent products. There cam the day when he said to staff and customers that our company would never develop Unix products because they would never be successful (in the mid-80s this was).
When his staff said to him that he was wrong , he said I know best, I’ve done this before, and if you are not with me, then you are against me, so go and work somewhere else
Why did so many of our senior players leave – is it because of AWs persistence in keeping to a plan and tactics which the opposition have all learned to counter – for me this could explain the Double Dutchman, Flamini …..
AW’s reply to the journo (?) which said ‘have you managed teams as I have’, also indicates a level of frustration and stubbornness which is bubbling up more and more
AW has done wonders for the Reds in the past, but this , in part could explain the performance of our team – they don’t like what he is asking them to do, but having no other choice because they can’t leave at the moment, they go out on the pitch and go through the motions
Should he go before the end of his contract – that’s between him and the board, but IMO the signs of him failing are there
Must go now – the mayor has invited us for our annual old folks 6 hour lunch – Arsene if you can hear me – retirement in France is wonderful ๐
Heh! @ Dr.z
A very unwise man once said, “If in doubt, gamble the future away…”
Love that quote, ‘holic at 107. Are you that wise man?
The mayor of cognac, er, cognac? Hope there is plenty of the local bevvy to drink! ๐ Enjoy!
TS 111: I think he added ‘But stay the fuck away from the ‘holic pound!’.
Morning All
Aw will nerver ever fall on his sword and I dont think in his position I would either. 7.5m a year is a hefty amount of money to wave good bye too, when people talk about who could replace AW you have to take into consideration that Mr wenger is one of the highest paid managers in the world, so I would say there would be many takers for the job, IF ! it ever came available.
We trade in the black ever year for one reason only ! The sale of the crown jewels every season. To be fair do we have any players that will generate 20-30m transfer fee`s anymore with the exception of Jack ? No no we dont.
At the end of this season if we dont make the CL we could find our selves running massively in the RED ! Down to one thing, big wages on very meadiocre players who cant be sold without Arsenal footing part of the wage bill.
So here we are between a rock and a hard place, while wingers are played as strikers and strikers played as wingers problems we still follow us around.
There is no easy fix that want cost us 100m which we dont have so AW will have to find his magic hat were ever he left it.
WHAT ??????!!!!!
I’ve lost the Dressing Room?
This cannot be. I am going on a protest skip. Black Speedoes for me today.
I WANT MY ARSE BACK!
Arsenal1971. As someone mentioned somewhere, whatever the problems, I don’t think he’d have to wave goodbye to that money, PSG (though they seem to be better now) would gladly pay that amount or more for him.
Dressing Room, not Dressing Gown, Wolfie.
Ollie @ #113 – indeed!
(long and boring alert)
I know hindsight is 20/20 and I know things have changed quite a bit since September but please consider this.
The conversation here in recent weeks has drifted sadly, slowly but clearly toward the future of Arsene Wenger. 5 weeks ago people (here) would barely go beyond hinting at it. Two weeks ago it was less of a taboo topic. I understand the reasons for that, we have had a poor start and that can’t be denied. However, there is a growing chorus of people saying essentially everything is wrong at the club/we’re in terminal decline/it’s been going on for years and years/time is up/no idea what he’s doing and that dial a cliche ‘lost the dressing room’. Many say they have seen it coming for two or three years. Where were these voices in September?
What’s fascinating is that if you visit the drinks during and after the Manchester City match there is no such talk whatsoever. Not even a hint of it. Nobody saying ‘We look alright but it will all go tits up in a short while, Wenger has lost the plot’
The biggest topic beyond our team spirit and wonderful collective effort was the Walcott situation. Of course it was REFRESHING to read anything positive – this was the same squad – with the same manager – this season – and the optimism was between good and fairly high for certainly more than half but seemingly closer to 75% in the bar. Wenger wasn’t on the agenda. Don’t believe me – try this:
This post
‘Wenger’ mentioned 19 times ‘Arsene’ 46 – Total 65 in 112 drinks
After Man City post
‘Wenger’ mentioned 9 times ‘Arsene’ 30 – Total 39 in 324 drinks
Our form since then has been poor. No argument from me. Is our season over and has Wenger become a dead man walking? No.
One big personnel change since then. No Diaby.
Second big personnel change since then. Return of Jack….only now just beginning to offset the huge loss of Diaby, Rosicky now also.
Here’s the concern which makes me almost convinced that over-reaction, the media shit storm and negativity breeding like mold has brought us where we are now and missing the facts of our season.
After the draw with Man City we sat in 5th – 1 point from 4th
Since then (in crisis!) today we sit in 7th – 2 points from 4th
We’ve dropped one point in chasing what I’d consider the low end of our goals for the season. I know we’re far further from the top 2, I know our season isn’t going well but surely there has been too much panic – panic underpinned by bad performances (they have been) but not a situation that sees us destined to finish 12th (as so many are acting).
If we get to the semis in Europe, finish 3rd in the league are we really going to reflect on the Bradford result or what has been a very uninspiring Nov/Dec?
Performances do need to improve of course and everyone agrees the squad needs more added to it. I also think that one of our biggest issues is too much change in the squad – if we add too many new players there’s even further change to the squad. As I said before lack of firepower is the biggest concern – do we need a striker or a provider I don’t know – I wouldn’t touch the back five.
Last thing worth noting concerning the drinks then versus now – the pub has the same name and probably almost all of the same regulars come if for a read as it did back in September but the names of those who post most frequently and fill the bar with noise has changed a lot. That might sound bitchy – but I think it has helped set/exaggerate the tone this month, like looking through the wrong end of a pair of binoculars that tone makes anything good or positive seem even further away than it really is. I’m not happy with this season, I’m not despondent though either but accept I could be by the end of the month. I love the bar, enjoy the banter and find so many ideas and thoughts people have interesting, but most of all I like being around supporters – which is difficult when you can no longer get to games. I always thought when Arsenal were backed up against the wall and things looked impossible our supporters used to unite and pull us through, I really hope that happens again when we need it most.
Right now I’m focused on supporting Arsenal and Arsenal only – the managerial debate is not for a fixture heavy December when our season still can be turned around.
Come on Arsenal –
Good stuff Tim.
Interesting and thought provoking post Tim.
Top post again Tim.
Ollie
I couldnt agree more that AW would be in demand, I only meant he wouldnt walk away. I do not think PSG would make an approach for him but if he walked out Im sure he would have his pick of big teams through out Europe.
The 100m reference was more to do with pay offs for clearing out deadwood and getting new players in. We could make a full starting 11 out of not good enough and was never good enough players on big money.
Agree with you Mr 1971 (though if the poor results come back at PSG and they persist at Arsenal, I’m sure they would be keen to make an approach)
Good stuff indeed Tim.
Although I don’t agree with all of it.
To say everything was fine in September is just not true, there were many voicing their concerns. Steve T’s – Are we being the best we can be, is not a new slogan bourne of recent frustrations, he’s been saying it for the best part of four years. We didn’t turn bad overnight, we’ve been missing peices of the puzzle for quite a while now.
AW has performed miracles keeping us where we have been, but now the finger in the dyke approach is about to explode, if we can’t discuss it now, then when?
To question the manager or his methods doesn’t make you less of a supporter or fan. I’ve always been in his corner, but recent events have turned my head. I’m not against persay, but doubts are rearing their ugly head. Do I have to keep quiet because we are playing 3 games a week?
Cliche alert- You can’t win the league in December, but you can sure as fuck lose it and that’s where we are right now. I never really expected us to win it, but I was hoping that we would be there or there about for a little longer then the first few monthes of the season.
I know we won’t be judged on our COC adventure, but we should be. It’s not like our kids were knocked out by a 4th tier team, this was as close to our first team that I’ve ever seen in that competition under AW, like I said at the time all that did was fashion a rather large pointy stick to beat him with. Home made, crafted by his own hands.
I’m not going to pretend to know any of the answers, but that’s not going to stop me asking the questions.
I’m out for the afternoon.
Enjoy your day all, laterzzzz.
Brilliant write-up ‘holic
Good post Tim. Shrewd observation.
Great post Tim, but i dont agree that new names have appeared on here since a drop in form. I have been posting and reading the blog for years but dont post that often.
After 7/8 years without a trophy any supporter who pays top dollar to watch the Arsenal has a right to question our current direction. Aw dosent help himself with coments like we are very close to winning the CL and PL, not from what I have seen even taking out the Bradford result.
Gerv is problerly one of the worst players I have seen since stepenos *sure thats not how you spell it but you know who I am talking about*
Poldski is not a winger ! Giroud is showing the movement and great footballing brain that will make him a sucess I believe in time. These players that are brought in dont live up to the standard of the players they replaced so that has to be classed as going backwards surely.
I think this is the point that is being made by most, if you sell a world class player why cant we replace them with a world class player ?
I have travelled north this weekend to visit my father and my brother in the town where I grew up and if I ever need a reminder of one of the main reasons I moved away from here then I need only to think of today. It’s very windy and snowing heavily – which is nothing unusual up here. Yuck.
Anyway.
Good stuff from the usual suspects, i.e. tabs, zico, H2H, The Holic himself of course and many others too.
Also agree with a lot that Tim says in that we must also try to keep our heads cool. Wether you advocate change or not, whatever is done must not be done in a fit of panic. The “just effin do SOMETHING!!!” approach never works, and if it does then it’s just blind luck.
While there are things that need to improve (quite obviously), I would also say that things could have looked a hell of a lot better if we hadn’t had to play Mannone so much. He not only made mistakes that directly cost us points (Fulham at home for example), but he made the whole defence very shaky and we’ve only recently started to look better again in that regard. It is no coincidence that we have been more solid and have racked up a few clean sheets since Woj came back. Now, the counter-argument to that is “why didn’t Arsene buy a goalie in the summer?”, and to that I say that well, how do we know he didn’t try? As someone said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Also, Woj was supposed to be back at the start of the season (and he was, he did play the first game) and then injured himself again. Could Arsene have foreseen that? I’m not sure he could.
That does not change the fact that we need at least one more proper striker in the squad, mind.
This season can still be “salvaged” in the sense that we are far from dead in the race for CL spots. It will require the team to step up a bit, but I don’t think that is beyond what they are capable of.
A pint of lager, please!
I want to officially thank Eurostar for offer me a folding seat on the 29th.
Thankfully they tell you before you validate, so I shall be using point on a train an hour earlier or two later (midday service is infrequent)
I think we need two strikers, personally, Lars.
One thing must not change though: The Wallet!
@ Arsenal 1971 …You could be right about who is posting now vs. September. it just appears that way to me. I see a lot of negative noise – I also endorse and respect what H2H said ‘To question the manager or his methods doesnโt make you less of a supporter or fan’ – he’s right. I just see a lot of ultra negativity seeping in and very little sense of some people supporting versus having a theory played out…at any cost. I’m also thankful this bar remains far more reasoned than other blogs. People are actively saying elsewhere let’s lose to Reading so Wenger gets kicked out quicker. What the hell is that. I asked one this week if he’s still want Wenger out if we won the league or CL this season, his response was yes – he must go at all costs. That’s where some of the fanbase are heading and if we do finish 3rd this season I’m convinced that is our ceiling at present.
To your last point.
The world class players we lose have generally been assets that we’ve developed and leave due to our salary structure.
I have no idea what the two most similar players to replace Cesc and RvP would cost us – beyond the transfer fees I’d guess a combined salary of 350-450k a week based on the league as it now is. Wenger/The Board (? I don’t know where it begins and ends) aren’t prepared to offer those amounts to individual players. We can of course argue ‘but they need to for us to compete’, but I don’t see it happening. Thus Wenger’s transfer policy has always been investing in potential and seeing it develop. It’s only the last 18 months where that has shifted to what I’d call purchasing ‘2nd tier’ established pros. That’s been the gamble they decided to take.
Apologies to anyone I have missed due to limited back-gniknird time, but good posts above from Tabs, Zico (historical and hysterical), H2H, DanC and Tim, who is nicely super-glued into his HT Mk II seat.
Holic, thanks for the excellent summary and comment.
I have exhausted my thoughts on the Arsenal board /ownership / finance / transfer topics, leaving only hope that Arsene Wenger can turn this team / squad around.
He surely, as many others have said, deserves to eventually leave the club in better circumstances than those currently prevailing.
It cannot be escaped though, as others have said, that the type of performance seen far too often lately, is a pattern established now over the last five years.
Apparant lethargy, complacency, lack of desire and mental strength have become the norm in many, not all, of the games that really matter.
That is inescapably the domain of the manager. As is team selection.
I have tried, since Tuesday night, to fathom the thinking that produced a front three at Bradford of,
Left Wing – Podolski, Central striker with 102 international caps.
Centre Forward – Gervinho, winger ??, hopelessly out of form.
Right Wing – Aaron Ramsay, one-paced central midfielder, poor form.
Bench – Alex Oxlade-Chamberlin, international winger, starved of regular playing time.
Bench – Tomas Rosicky, international attacking midfielder, showing good early form on returning from injury.
I’m not even going to mention Chamakh, devoid of any vestige of confidence, stepping up to take a penalty.
These sorts of decisions are not helping the manager’s cause one jot, and seem part of a pattern to ‘prove’ that this totally ‘out of the box’ thinking is still a part of the manager’s repertoire.
Last time I tried, square pegs seemed to fit far more readily into square holes. When you’re trying to restore confidence, is it not better to ask people to do what they are naturally good at ?
There again, ” I haven’t worked even half a day in football “.
And before I get jumped on, I would just repeat that, yes, I do want Arsene Wenger to be the manager who turns this all around for us.
Trev, I believe you are naturally good at posting drinks.
And making puns.
Tim
Again your points are very well put and hard to argue. Regarding other blogs I totally agree as I have long since stopped reading anything else except Holic and arseblog.
The home grown talent is true with Cesc and RVP were minimal out lay with maximum return. ยฃasri,Toure,Song and Clichy again made great profits.
Players to replace Cesc and RVP a very very hard one but you may agree we could maybe have done a better job of replacing them along with the others names mentioned than we have done.
I am not calling for AW head just a little more thought and consideration to the most loyal fans bar none in the country. I think every year the board and manager seem to get a bit more detached from the ones who pay there wages.
Gooner til I die through good and bad !
Cheers Ollie, same to you.
Now we are like Chelsea last season.
Lets change the manager and….win the champion league!!!. History does repeat itself.
Maybe this line of though will help you make choices more easily re: Wenger as manager.
I’ve been racking my brains since Tim’s earlier post, to come up with a tactical change that ‘we’ could make to get us back to winning ways.
This seems to me to be a winner.
All 10 outfield players form a tight circle around the ball and shuffle it, a la rugby scrum, into the opposition goal.
This manoevre would require no pace at all – indeed, pace would be a distinct disadvantage – and could only be defended, by the opposition, by deliberately fouling one or more members of our shield and pulling them down or kicking them out the way.
I am quite goose bumpy at the apparant simplicity and infallability of this plan.
Is GoonerRef around to confirm that this is legal ?
abc11633 –
Medical help is free, you know. ๐
Haha, Trev wins. Again.
(on both posts)
Brendan Rodgers tells Liverpool to aim higher than fourth place, they trail Villa 0-3 at home.
Has he lost the dressing room?
Ollie@131: don’t worry, The Wallet will remain the same!
Some great posts by everyone
Cheers people
Good to see Dr. Z and Wolfie up to their usual highjinks. But a roulette table in Wolfie’s dressing room? It could be a bit over the top. ๐
Nice spin to put on that one, bt8.
whats going on here , my head is going round in circles and so is Trev
just back from a not so quiet lunch which started with cognac schweppes as it is known locally (cog + tonic to the inebriated), then I think we had 7 courses, with Muscadet then St Emilion (they put vodka into the lime sherbet at some stage) and finished with a cognac XO . Please dont ask what we ate, but it was nice. It was all free courtesy of the mayor (paid out of our taxes)
I tried to tell AW earlier that retirement in France was a good idea but I can’t remember why ๐
Heh, cognac, sounds like it was a great lunch ๐
Sounds divine, cognac.
I assume les sans-culottes didn’t get invited as well irrespective of their tax contribution?
or was it for the whole town? ๐
Top posts, ‘Holic and Tabs.
I really wonder if the game wouldn’t be better served without these mandatory press conferences. I know the Premiership needs them to stir up controversy as part of its marketing push, but apart from feeding the ravenous maw of the red tops and TV, and needling people like AW (does Fergie get a similar wind-up?) do they really expand the universe of human knowledge?
Bathgooner@36. The Sandy Hook massacre is just horrendous. I just cannot imagine the scale of loss in a small town that has had its entire kindergarten class slaughtered. The gun lobby will be out in force defending Americans’ constitutional right to bear arms; some have already reportedly been calling for teachers to be armed so they can defend their students in such circumstances. There are some things about America that I will never understand. Perhaps as Dunblain changed British attitudes towards guns, so Sandy Hook will change Americans’. I have to say, though, that I doubt it. I would expect the gun lobby’s financial clout to carry the day.
Trev@138: manically brilliant. A return to the 19th century roots of the game. You will rewrite the coaching manuals, with a quill pen and impeccable cursive script.
I must say it has all been very interesting stuff since Tuesday night. Holic called for calm and restraint after the Bradford debacle. The one positive for me is the well balanced and reasoned arguments put across by many. I cannot say that I agree with all of the posts, but I agree with a lot that has been said.
The Premier League today is different from the one AW joined all those years ago. When he entered the marble halls I am sure I am not the only one that joined the โArsene whoโ brigade? Especially as I was expecting Johan Cryuff to be announced. His arrival not only revolutionised Arsenal but changed the whole game as it is today. His raiding of the European and African markets reaped rich rewards. We witnessed the arrival of players that either no one had heard of, or players that had somewhat failed at their previous clubs only to be revitalised under AW.
Fast forward to recent times. Massive changes have taken place at the club since his arrival. We now have a new ground, new training facilities and there have been changes in ownership of the club and in the boardroom. From being leaders and pioneers a few years back I feel that we have fallen behind. For me this has been something that has taken place gradually over the years. I fully accept that the move to The Grove resulted in a few years of being prudent, however I still stand by my โbe the best you can beโ ethos. The main difference for me comes with personnel. We have put up for years with the constant speculation and tapping up of our players. On the whole we managed to resist. Players departed when we decided and when we felt that their best years had gone. This is not the case these days. This is partly due to us apparently needing to raise money and partly due to the excesses offered elsewhere. This has culminated in a squad that has gradually become weaker and weaker. It means that we have seen wholesale changes, and each year we have had to bed in far too many players at once. This I would suggest is a major reason for our decline.
So where does the blame lie? Well, AW has to take a certain amount of the blame. He selects the side, he decides on the tactic and as others have stated above, he is the one that plays players out of position. However, my opinion is that the blame lies firmly with the board. Those that own and run the club now bear no resemblance to those who are the current custodians. I am very much with those that think David Dein has been a massive loss. I fully understand those who are negative towards him but the fact is that he was AWโs right hand man. He played a massively important role in assisting and supporting the manager. He has never been replaced. Those currently at the club have left AW with far too much to do and with far too much responsibility. I want AW running the team. I want AW in charge of the playing side. I want someone else taking the flack. I want someone else at the club standing up and being counted. I donโt just want a once a month post from PHW in the Star.
The Usmanov factor is also something that cannot be ignored. Love him or hate him, the fact is that he owns a best part of a third of the club. It cannot be healthy to have someone as powerful effectively at war with the rest of the board?
For me I am very much with AW. I feel that he has been somewhat hindered over the years by the board. I am far from convinced that he gets to select the transfer targets he genuinely wants. For me this has to change massively. I want a manager that is given the full support of the board. I want the manager to be given the โDeinโ figure back again to assist. I want a manager that looks after the playing side rather than fending off others due to the lack of football knowledge of Gazidis, or the lack of presence from a silent owner. When I am happy that AW has been given all of the funds available, and given the full support of the board for football reasons and not for business reasons I will sit in judgement. If we are still not bringing in the quality that is required or not addressing the obvious issues then it may be time to ask the question. AW speaks at his regret of losing certain players. I want that reversed. I want him to be able to keep the players he wants. I want him to be able to buy the players he feels are required. I do not want him spending money we donโt have. I donโt expect us to spend to compete with the Citehs and Chavs of this world. But I do expect the club to support the manager as best we can. I still believe that given the backing and the resources that AW can still do a job. For me it is the board that need to step up. The board needs football people. It needs Arsenal people. Not just business people. Otherwise there may be no business left.
Top stuff from a lot of top people above. We all share the same passion even if our views may differ. Top reporting holic.
Ladies and Gents. Boys and girls. Keep the faith. Keep the faith but never be afraid to ask the question. Who knows, if the board get their act together as a result of Bradford then some possitives can come from an otherwise poor evening.
Drinks all round. Lars???? Money out.
I want him to keep the players he wants. I want him to be able to buy the players he feels we need. I do not want him spending money we don’t have.
With the advent of the petrodollars and no infusion of money into our coffers from the owner(s), I think these points are mutually exclusive, no?
nobody can change the american people , they are stuck in this mindset of religion , bible and gun . They cannot understand why the british cop doesn’t carry gun .
That aside , Wenger was pretty successful until recently , with Man City suck out all the best players , Arsenal become unstable and weaker .
The right approach is somehow counter intuitive , we must support Wenger and the AFC , there are no better choice .
Excellent stuff Steve T, that’s exactly what I mean by coming here for the ‘thought provoking stuff’ on the blog ~ in addition to the landlord naturally.
One of these days I’ll have enough cash to get back to London and you can all slap me round the head for peddling so many statistics ๐
@Montreal….living in the US an Englishman ….not all of them feel that way thankfully, I’m not optimistic about change but won’t rule it out in time.
Shit…back to talking about Arsenal within two sentences….
I want him to keep the players he wants. I want him to be able to buy the players he feels we need. I do not want him spending money we donโt have.
I would rather he didn’t keep blowing transfer fees and disproportionate wages on the sort of dross he has been buying in the last four or five years.
Even if some of those players have been free or low fee players, their wages have not been a trivial sum (the ones we can’t shift because they’re too well paid prove this) and anyway, the sums paid are irrelevant if they’re not up to the required standard. Eight million or eleven for Gervinho doesn’t matter if he’s not up to the job.
It’s not just about money, it’s about judgement and the folly of paying millions (even if it’s “only” two or three million) for jokers like Park, plus wages, when we are supposedly being run on a tight budget.
I think Arshavin is our highest paid player now RvP has gone, and he sits on his arse every week, either at home or on the bench. For a supposedly wisely run club, economically, that’s crazy stuff.
Steve T – massive round of applause for a bang on post.
Agree with the whole thing, particularly the need to replace Dein.
It seems to me that we are coming to the end of a decade of transition. In 2014 the new deals will have been signed, the stadium debt will be under control and the new, higher, TV deal will also be chipping in to the bottom line.
This will be the moment of truth. If the money doesn’t begin to flow to enable us to compete, both by signing and retaining quality, I will be extremely irate, and feel that we have been missold the stadium move, and the comparative hardships of recent years. Our patience will have been abused.
Equally, if the money is spent and the team does not begin to move forward again, I think there will be some serious questions for the manager to answer.
Who will that manage be? Arsene, I hope. He has (just about) lead us through the desert and I feel it only right that he should be given an opportunity to show what he can do with the fruits of the promised land.
We have been patient for 7 and a half years. We have another 18 months to wait for the moment of truth to arrive, in terms of the owner, board and manager. This is not a moment for panic.
I hope we will see some funding begin to materialise in January and next summer, and that we will be able to begin the climb from our current position to something mor befitting of this great club. I also hope we will take a serious look at ourselves and find a way to reduce internal friction, manage our contracts better, provide better information to the support, and stop playing people out of position even when it is clearly not working. I hope we will begin, once again, to be the best we can be.
In the mean time, I hope we smash Reading on Monday.
COYG
Steve, terrific stuff – and you know the drinks are always on my tab!
NBN @ 150: There are many more ordinary people with the sensible, ethical attitude towards gun control than the people with vested interest would make us believe. Future generations looking back at this time and these avoidable senseless massacres would not judge us kindly.
Zico, Nonny. My point is that we seem to be buying burgers to save money when we really want, and can afford steak. We can afford better than we are spending money on.
Re Arshavin. I do not know many Arsenal fans who had negative thoughts when he signed. We all thought he was a great addition to the squad. He has had his moments but not reached the heights we both hoped and expected.
Tim, thank you.
I’m not sure I agree Steve.
I think steak is outwith our price range. As a for instance, Chelsea get Mata and we get Gervinho.
Still think we can spend more wisely though.
Gammon steak…..as a kid I always thought that sounded rather posh
Steve T @151 top, top post. I’ll sign up to all that.
Gervinho I very much agree was a mis steak.
๐
Or a piss take.
Rib eye is better value than fillet and almost as good and much better than a burger. I’d rather have a rib eye than 3 burgers.
We have some positions out wide that is just looking for top quality to fillet. But it has to be a cut above the rest.
Nonny: I am 100% convinced that Arsene never wanted to buy Park. He was bought to sell shirts in (primarily) South Korea.
Steve, are you saying that without width we’ll be slaughtered?
In any case, many are wishing for Arsene to get the chop.
And does this post meat the critera for good puns?
Is our lack of moo-vement an issue? I herd January will see a change.
Should Wenger continue to steer the club? Better bull control soon?
Only if you don’t mince your words Lars.
๐
Something about Arsene’s stubbornness in playing people out of positions persistently despite suffering the consequences: they may have come to fruition early if those were being done in a confident, free flowing team where the general quality of the play would have both reduced the pressure on these ‘experimental’ positions as well as force them to raise their game. Last good example was Nasri playing on the wings. He stuttered for a couple of seasons before really finding his feet.
Playing in Arsenal sides of old Gervinho might have had a better chance to become a confident finisher and Ramsey, playing on the wings, to improve upon the pace of his game without having the team suffer. But in current team where there are not that many avenues of creativity they are essentially wasted positions.
And as others have pointed out: more these experiments do not work the innate theoretician in Arsene takes more stubborn stance. If one asks him he will present convincing reasoning — just as he could for playing Arshavin in the wings and not centrally — based on past history of such experiments and I am sure good amount of sports science.
The problem is, one cannot separate the man into the ideas that appear to work now, that may appear to work in future, would never work. The successes owe their success to the failures. Next time I see Gervinho playing central striker I will anticipate such horrendous misses again, but I wouldn’t delude myself into thinking that Arsene would somehow stop this experiment this season.
No tripe around here.
Holics
There seems to be little good cheer surrounding our club at the moment. We seem to be bombarded on all sides by the media, whose intentions are not honourable, by so called fans who fail to accept the realities of post Abramovich and by those forces within the club who are failing to appreciate the situation we find ourselves in.
We appear to have entered the slough of despond and no one with the means to extract us from this mire ,seems to recognise the seriousness of our situation! Without urgent attention we could sink to non retrievable depths. I am utterly depressed, as I suspect is Arsene and some of our highly paid players. As for the others and the board,as long as the money rolls in at the end of the month and the value of their investment is secure, they are not motivated to do anything!
We the fans are bearing the brunt of this ineptitude, yet I have just paid ยฃ95 for the privilege of watching the likes of Citi and that French guy.I like most of you do care , its too late for us to opt out ,we are in this for life. Its those who are in it purely for monetary reasons who are failing the Club. The rest of us are victims of their inertia.
I need to give my full attention to “The Killings”, BBC4.
tim @ 172 & Steve @ 173: I was expecting more beefy entrees, and not these meagre offerings redolent of the customary single lines from a ham actor. :–) Ruminating about the e-veals of too much money and how that is butchering the modern game would have been more delectable.
About Arsene: I kid you not but I farm-ly believe that he is the right man to bring Arsenal the bacon… ๐
A big pat on the back for all re cow puns
Far too many Intelligent,sensible people on here for my liking.
Really does my head in.!!
I think i will have to book myself into the ‘ Secure Unit’ over Christmas/New Year,just to remind myself what it was like to be incarcerated with the,to put it mildly, ‘ Colourfull’ folk that reside there.
I still cannot fathom why they ever let me out in the first place.!!
Hopefully the Lovely ‘ C ‘ will be on night duty,and will bring me succor and the ‘ laying on of hands ‘ to get me through the long lonely nights.
Cheers
A very befuddled Sweeper.
Montreal.
I will just say if we are all stuck in :
Religion, bible, gun then Obama would not be president.
Cheers all.
Leave my parts out of it, thanks.
I am 100% convinced that Arsene never wanted to buy Park.
Don’t forget though that a few months (perhaps a year) before signing Park, Wenger said something like “Asia deserves to have a player at Arsenal”.
I don’t buy the shirt selling excuse for this deal because unless he plays, he’s not going to be a visible presence and it’s hard to sell shirts even if a player is famous unless he plays? He hasn’t played, and has been shifted out on loan within a year.
He was just a terrible mistake IMO
@NorCal…..
spot on
Bonne nuit les petits
Cow puns ? It’s like moosic to my ears.
Missed the start of it all as I’d just popped out for a breath of fresh ayrshire, taking the dog for a walk. Had been trying to avoid the foul weather but finally had to take the bull by the horns.
Didn’t last long though – it was udderly fresian out there !
How is it that the most sensible guy in football, is someone I used to hate so much?
I have to say, I love him right now.
Love every word that comes out of his mouth.
Finally some common sense.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2248779/Arsene-Wenger-stay-Arsenal-Gary-Neville.html
@NorCalArsenal ,
The american is a great people , they stand up against the nazi and the communism , this tell me they are good people and have a good common sense . Nevertheless , there is this dark side lurking around , too much religion to the point of obscurantism and of course there is gun.
The next month , we will see , if Arsenal keep loosing , then the position of Wenger is untenable .
Montreal. Cheers.
We all have dark sides. No society is exempt. I was just pointing out your generality and a wee flaw in it. No worries. I know where my morals and beliefs lie and how I feel about my common man/ woman. Every one of them.
I don’t know what’s wrong with the Daily Mail today, but they’re rather sensible.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2248752/Patrick-Collins-The-anti-Wenger-mob-careful-wish-for.html
re the Daily Mail, even a stopped clock is right two times a day
Nice Post ‘Holic, and an excellent exchange of views on this weeks Arsecast.
If anyone deserves more time its our greatest ever manager, although I completly understand those calling for his head. The reality is perhaps that the football landscape has changed beyond recognition and our role as prudent spenders will inevitably have a detrimental effect on the team.
A quick look at the table shows that the four teams above us are eminantly catchable and certainly no better than us in terms of quality,so fourth is by no means out of the question ( though it saddens me that that is the zenith of our potential) Unfortunatly the Premier League is now a question of whoever has the most money wins.
On the tragic U.S. situation — as a former resident of New York and frequent cross border visitor to C.T I am stunned and shocked that such a thing can happen it that location. Connecticut is usually a model of decent and civilised life — these thing are usually the preserve of the mid west or South. While touring the Northeast with my band many years ago we had a song entitled “Crimewave” in our set which was a call for gun control — many times we were met with a hostile reception — “Hey Limey,dont write about things you dont understand” — I realized that for many Americans its in the blood, and an infringement of their civil rights to thake their guns away. For me, one dead child is one too many. God help the poor suffering parents. It all rather puts the malaise at our great Club into perspective.
Knocks one on for the onrushing nighttime Gooner by the name of …
if The Arse wasn’t bad enough
i’m sideways tryin to play paul haig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGPV43ZdkZk
keeps kickin me in the eyebrow
josef k
quite the band
i would imagine Smallgangs could cut quite the dash to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IE&hl=en-GB&v=LOi_wxypeGc
and relax
Hey everyone ๐
Haven’t posted since Tuesday’s loss, although not for the reason you’d expect… I got a job! ๐
Had an interview last Sunday, got the chance for a interview because the manager is the older sister to one of my younger sister’s friends from College, I’m glad one of my older sisters made me go in on the day with the younger sister even though I initally turned the offer of a job down out of frustration of not getting to watch the rest of the WBA game and potential embrassment of telling people I worked *there* (her rationale was that her 1st job was at Millwall :p )
Naturally I’ve been back-drinking since Tuesday, stopped posting on this phone when I realised I’d burned through ยฃ5 worth of credit going on the internet (my ยฃ20 6 month Internet, E-Mail and BBM [broken blackberry on the way for repair/replacement] booster ran out finally without me noticing), didn’t realise until I checked my credit out of irrational fear and gut feeling ๐
Other than that I’ve been embroiled with UCAS and trying to get into University, filling out the Apply section, writing a Personal Statement (not done!) and picking Uni choices for Biomedical Science (I finally decided Lars, Snowy and True Storey! ๐ , I recall strongly talking about Uni stuff in the Beer Garden on the day of the Montpellier match with Lars and Top Man Snowy and on the day after with TS, thanks for the help you guys ๐ ), me and the same older sister who made me go for the job had one of our heart to heart talks and I came out of her room hours later knowing what *I* want to do and become for the 1st time in about 9-11 years by my estimation.
Saturday was my 4th shift of my 4th day, all in a row :P, today will take me to 20 hours for the week! ๐ฎ
The job requires stamina and its hard work but at its Nadir I just imagine being able to pay for myself to see the Arsenal again and getting a round in for the Holics and all those so kind to me on the Sp*rs/Montpellier matchdays and at the Tollie the Thursday after the latter matchday (I wonder if I’ll ever be able to repay the sheer kindness of your gestures Clive and NorCal but I hope you’ll enjoy x number of alcholic beverages from me the first/next time we meet ๐ ) and not being so mubh of a burden on my mum and the work I have to do becomes less difficult ๐ The thoughts of me getting my own Laptop and PS3 and not having to use my older brother’s ones is a good incentive as well 8) ๐
On Bradford, shock at the fact that Eisfeld or Gnarby would not be appearing at all, disbelief at the strength of the starting 11 + 7 subs pre-match. Shock at Vermaelen’s penalty returning towards him, disbelief at the collective performance from the Team post-match (and Gervinho, think I’ve finally lost patience with him after that miss, the jury is a little bit out on Chamakh due to his lack of consistent playing time). The less said about that debacle the better in my opinion.
On Wenger, for someone like me, who’s only known one manager since they can remember following the Arsenal, the man with the perfect name to manage our club, the intelligent, wry French Professor with morals and ideals for football, Arsene has to go one day, it could be in 18 months at the end of his contract or by 6 months when he feels he can no longer take the club forward, it could be on a high with new trophies in hand and maximum satisfaction, it could be on a low with the remnants of his formerly gold reptuation wrapped around him. A new manager will come in, maybe Pep, maybe Laudrup, maybe Moyes, maybe Klopp. Maybe they’ll have us winning trophies again. And it will be great, awesome even, but not perfect. 99%, 99.99%,but not 100%. And that’s because when Arsenal moves on without him, we will have left a bit of us behind.
back o the net !
dearsweetmotherofallthatgoodandholyintheworldivejustntmeggedwindhedidntevennotice
Heh, yellow card cba ๐
I knew I timed that drink to perfection, I’d either score the longest goal ever or earn *true glory and adoration* ๐
Can only go on the drinks on this phone when I’m connected to Wi-Fi ie at home or on a computer for now so I’ll load the latest drinks or the latest post and drinks before I leave for church in the morning and respond when I get back, assuming I wake up in time after this latest herculean effort ๐
Night anyone in the ba- zzz…
this is more or less my nighttime routine
see if you can pick me out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeZHB3ozglQ
its the legs give it away
Wind. Good for you. At least the money should be worth it. ๐
The glory spot is yours,wind. Congrats on the job. Hope it provides you with what you need. Was going to contact you today through the back channels since I hadn’t seen you here lately. Now I know why. Again congrats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ardnTq1Wk
its brians band
mike needs a boot in the love
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2248752/Patrick-Collins-The-anti-Wenger-mob-careful-wish-for.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2248779/Arsene-Wenger-stay-Arsenal-Gary-Neville.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-arsenalmail&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=socialnet-twitter-arsenalmail&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
Yes, tabs must clearly be working for the Daily Mail now ๐
cba: self-assist? tsk tsk
Wind, very happy to hear you’ve found yourself a job!
(but where is it that you work that is so embarrassing that you can’t tell us? ๐ )
You can keep posting pal, and I will keep deleting. Save yourself some time…
Oh Holic, you big tease.
Just let the fighting start ๐
didn’t back drink to see the offence but so, cba gets a legit goal. ๐
Congrats, well in!
Even if 197 is anticipated a bit now, must have been a few deleted posts then! :p
Nice assist Wind, even if you are waving a now clearly imaginary yellow! ๐
http://www.cadfael.tv/image/src/1355589272516.gif
That needs sound. An axe hitting a log when the butt lands would work.
After a loss Iโve noticed that on this blog, AND others (that I may, or may not, get around to reading), the phrase: โOh fuck, shit, bolloxy, fuck, fuckety, fuckโ – gets used almost up to 48 and a half more times than the phrase: โWell, that was a well-earned 3 points everyone โ things are looking up.โ
Draw your own conclusions people.
i dived
So did Shawcross.
Ridiculous trying to get Fellaini booked like that.
Wind,
When you write that Personal Statement on your application form, remember it should not take longer than the course. ๐
Congrats on the job – so to speak – whatever it is !
*feels no shame*
*strides proudly into the sunset*
cba, you got lucky… punk. ๐ I saw the truth at 4 in the morning… 8)
NorCal, thanks, and thanks for looking out for me (you’d have to pay rent for a family of 5 knowing my mum, and we’d need to build a 2 room ectension!) ๐
Lars, it could be any shop on the Seven Sisters Road,
Matchday Holics (think its too new in terms of decades for North London expat Holics) you can guess and make me laugh ๐ or get it right and have me admit it ๐ณ
Coming from the unparalleled assisting master that is you Ollie that means quite a lot ๐
Haha Trev, two paragraphs done so far, 1.5k characters out of 4k characters, I think I can contain myself (!) ๐
tabs, hilarious story from your childhood, got any more? ๐
Great stuff on Arsene as a person and a manager as well :’)
cdoyle, I’ve really enjoyed your drinks, you remind me of a ‘young’ ๐ Doctor Faustus when he first entered this bar, keep it up mate ๐
Inspired posts Zico and tim (applauds)
I get Monday to Wednesday off so I should be able to watch us in the Champions League as far as we go from the last-16 jump off, but for 3:00pm/5:30pm Home kick-offs on a Saturday and 1:30pm/4:00pm Home kick-offs on a Sunday I’ll most likely come to the Tollie to watch the game since my favourite way to get into work (Holloway Road Station) is closed on a matchday apparently and the buses will probably be cut off or take forever from Highbury and Islington or Caledonian Road or Finsbury Park by the matchday Gooners, most likely making me late ๐ The bar and security staff are probably going to know me by name soon enough haha X_X
Oi Tabs, *taps side of nose * got any more ? ๐
am currently getting on the outside of spiced rum and cherryade
dunno whether to congratulate meself or hide in big girly drink shame
eff it
eithers good
drinks pink and proud
.
happy sunday ‘holic and ‘holics
Is a Disaronno and Cranberry Juice a manly drink? Because it is bloody delicious. ๐
in other news
jars on me in memory of Stout
the coolest 15 yr old irish setter
my floorboards will be drier and my crotch will go unsniffed but i’m not too big to say i’m fuckin sad as fuck
slainte
Sounds like a proper dog, cba.
There’s a flaw in your plan, Wind : Saturday 3pm kick-offs are not on UK TV ๐
Wind, I don’t know, but it sounds like a Del Boy kind of drink.
RIP Stout.
cheers ‘holic
he was
a character beyond belief
part of the family
the beaches of donegal are gonna be a duller place without him hiding tennis ball after tennis ball , pissin on them and lookin innocently at me as if to say i have no idea what you’re talkin about
cheers ollie
Afternoon All,
Always a good way to start the day – Chelsea tears. Fat Frank looking like he’s just been told he ain’t getting any sweets for a month. Luiz blubbing like he’s just met a Bay City Roller. Sets you up nicely for the rigours of a Sunday.
cba – Tuuune! Usual terrific stuff. Sorry to hear about your dog.
Ollie – negotiations are ongoing with The Daily Fail but my influence is already being felt ๐
Trev @219 – Plenty! ๐
Wind – Thank you. Congrats on the job. Dissarro and cranberry juice however, is not the way forward.
@213 – My conclusion is that you draw lazy conclusions without doing the necessary reading to entitle you to draw any conclusions.
Clive – At last. This is what the people want. Looking forward to more tales from the Secure Unit ๐
Come on Swansea!
tabs, Fack ๐
Off to Work, laters all ๐
well said takeabowson
@213 – nothin worse than a conclusion inciting c**t
when i wanna draw – i’ll draw – and it’ll be at a time of my choosin – with the drawin irons of my choice – usually crayola soft purple – but thats none of your concern – fartface
Afternoon all.
I’d like to start by saying thank you to Fellini for doing what many of us could only dream of. He’s had that coming for a while now and while everyone was saying how you don’t like to see that kind of thing (I did) no one has highlighted the fact that Lenny was hanging all over Fellin like a cheap suit.
Good stuff Steve T, pretty much what I was trying to say, just better.
Wind, firstly can I congratulate you on your new McJob!? If I’ve guessed right, then there’s no need to be ashamed, in fact a jobs a job and unless it’s a real horrible thing to be like lets say a Darren Dein then there’s no shame at all.
Secondly, as a proffesional I can inform you that the only time an Amerretto + Cranberry can be condoned is when you are having your period.
Cranberry juice being a natural diuretic. ๐
cba, sorry to hear about your 4 legged loss.
I thought Wind had just got a job as barman in a strip club, H2H, but I might have got that wrong ๐
Wind at McD’s – well burger me!
150 people went for that job – the interview was a proper bun fight.
Thought I’d just shake myself out of my Sundae lethargy by chipping in with a few little nuggets.
Nice to ketch up with the drinks anyway. ๐
We can let 213 be people. He is a mischievous ‘holic ๐
Heh Ollie, barman at a strip joint is what all in our proffesion strive to be. ๐
Trev comes in to Mcshake things in.
I suspected so, ‘holic at 234.
But it wasn’t me.
Or me.
Keeping 213 ‘s identity ‘secure’ Holic ? ๐
ps. I’m only guessing where Wind’s new employment is.
But he did say Seven Sisters Rd and due to him prefering to get off the tube at Holloway Rd that would put him in that general area.
Wind, that branch has been there for years, although looking at photos it has changed drastically it was there when I was a kid too (since 1975 I think?) it was one of the first in London. The very first was coincidently at the old home of the Gunners in Woolwich.(opened 1974)
Keeping things Happy, H2H.
This could balloon into a punfest – or even a bunfest.
Right, must look Spritely – bit of garden to tidy up.
H2H, sounds like Wind has got about seven sisters ….
Jack the lad looking to extend contract until he’s jack the man.
Cheers all. Have a great Sunday.
http://m.espn.go.com/soccer/story?storyId=1266096
Holic@234. Only see 1 individual moaning about 213 & that’s your mate Take an Exit Son. He’s an expert on everything. I’ll leave it at that.
Ah apologies Holic, too clever for me. ๐
Afternoon Vinny the Ninny.
Awaiting to leave for the airport to return to blighty after a superb week in Lanzarote…wall to wall sunshine / temp around 23 degrees new money. Spirits have been well & truly lifted that even the Bradford result could not spoil. My thoughts on where we are are for another time but I’m left in awe with the well thought out responses by the majority of drinkers in this esteemed establishment…all too many to mention.
A quick congrats to Wind on his new employment…success beckons I’m sure. H2H in my earlier period, the big deal was the Wimpy Diner on Holloway Road at the Nags Head. Must also wish good luck to Tabs in his negotiations with the Daily Fail…no doubt he is negotiating a job share for Wolfgang to edit the fashion pages. Trev…the punmeister still reigns supreme.
Tomorrow night we will be Reading the good news ๐
Uply. Welcome back.
I remember that one, also there being a burger bar next to the tube station on the Holloway Road and the Wimpy on the same street was at the Archway end (N.19).
Ahh, fine dining in Islington in the 70’s. ๐
it’s be funny if 213 was me…..
Well, when all’s said and done, after this weekends results, a win tomorrow will put us in 5th place and literaly in touching distance of 3rd.
The chips are down, the backs are against the wall, cliche, soundbyte, etc, etc. A win tomorrow and we’re back on track, a loss is not worth contemplating, it would cause a shitstorm of hurricaine proportions.
So come on lads, this is a gifthorse that you simply can’t stare into the mouth of, take your chances, take the points and take back control of our season. It’s is simple as that.
Just watched a recording of MOTD – Fellaini head butting Shawcross and then giving him a punch in the gob later … wonderful stuff.
I’ve always liked him as a player – a bit of that hard edge wouldn’t go amiss in our squad.
Couldn’t agree more West Upper. Long time since we’ve had a MF enforcer with a hard edge – LJW is the nearest thing we have and he’s too wee to impose himself physically. Needs to stick to winning the ball in crunching challenges and dancing through the opposition.
Good: I have booked yet another trip to London, this time I’ll be travelling together with my brother and his two sons.
Bad: since it was the only game that we could find that worked out for everyone, it’s the home game v Villa – a game that will be postponed should Villa reach the final of the COCup. Which of course now means I’ve jinxed it so the game won’t be played that weekend. It also means that should Villa face Chelsea or (less likely but not impossible) Leeds I will have to root for them which feels kind of nauseating but I admit to shameless selfishness in this case! But since I must hope that Villa shall lose the semi-final we all now know that they will be drawn against Bradford.
Having said that, even if the game should not be played that weekend then at least it will be a couple of days spent in London which ain’t too bad in itself ๐
By the way, free WiFi should be mandatory on all flights. I am typing this on the flight back home to Stockholm, being able to visit this bar in-flight sure beats having to read some boring glossy in-house airline magazine to pass the time.
Also, agree with H2H about tomorrow. No exuses exist for not going in there and giving it our absolute best. It doesn’t matter who we are playing, three points is all that matters.
Good stuff about the Wi-Fi, LArs!
Superb post ‘holic – don’t think anyone else in the gooner blogosphere could’ve picked out the big bones rattling around in The Arse cupboard right now and pinned them together as well. What you’ve given shape to is what it looks like to me too. Thanks a bunch.
Come on Arsenal. Come on Arsene.
Meantime – 3 Arse legends of ’71 and some, discuss the only show in town just now. It’s about half an hour in.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01p9k62/Sportsweek_16_12_2012/ โฆ
@231, 232, 233, 235, 245, thanks for the congratulations but everyone who guessed McDonalds/Barman in Strip Club (haha Ollie ๐ ), wrong! ๐ H2H @ 239 is in the right frame of mind for guessing though ๐
Trev @ 241, ๐ Excellent punmanship ๐ (5 Sisters Road)
tabs & H2H, my friends (one male and one female) who were at me at the Whetherspoons near our college both plugged for it (+cranberry was for the girl) so I decided to go for it, lay off me guys ๐
I was wondering who was the male and who was the female between tabs&H2H, Del Boy.
Heh Ollie @256.
Heh Ollie,
One way to find out, put two drinks on the bar, whichever of us reaches for the cranberry juice is of the feminine persuasion. ๐
Haha ๐
joy: after four weeks in the hospital, scruzdad is home, able to eat, and scheduled again for (hopefully) a long, comfortable life.
this last month has really showed me where the debates over Arsรจne, the squad quality and direction, and my desire to rehash them endlessly really stand…really low on my totem pole. i’ve enjoyed most reading the windy epics, norcal’s travel tales, zico’s rare edwin stories, great drinks by tabs, trev, tim, cdoyle, joe, and others, and of course ‘holic’s blog posts and calm hand at the bar. he of all i have thought about this last month…as i’ve remembered ‘holicdad during these hard days.
merry christmas, everyone. thanks for sharing your gifts so well at this here bar. dad’s home, i will see him next week, and i am content. and a win tomorrow and i will start to feel happiness replacing the deep, constant worry of the last four weeks. a round of drinkers’ pleasure, on my tab, and a glass of ’81 chave hermitage for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>