A History Of Highbury – The Arsenal Stadium
May 22nd, 2013 by 'holic
It is another of my old Arsenal-Land pieces that kicks off the close season, with thanks to Darren as usual. This appreciation of Highbury was originally penned in the week leading up to the Farewell to Highbury fixture against Wigan Athletic, relived by so many in the weekend just gone. It is my intention to produce a new weekly historical post during the summer.
I am told that if you had asked any football fan in the decades that preceded and followed the Second World War, ‘What is the most recognisable stadium in the game?’ the answer would invariably have been ‘Highbury’. What follows is an appreciation of one of football’s most famous theatres.
The story of how Arsenal came to be in N5 is a fascinating tale of intrigue and suspicion. In season 1912-13 Arsenal finished bottom of the first division after winning just three of their thirty-eight matches, and it was rumoured that the club’s bank balance had plunged to just £19. Henry Norris, later knighted, had taken over Woolwich Arsenal two years previously and failed in an attempt to merge them with Fulham. The problems facing the club have a familiar ring with many today. Rising transfer fees and falling gates made a move to a more populated area the only chance of survival. As the Mayor of Fulham, and later the Member of Parliament for Fulham East, Norris cultivated ‘influential’ acquaintances. He was able to persuade the Ecclesiastical Commissioners and an old friend, the Archbishop of Canterbury no less, to lease the playing fields of St. John’s College of Divinity for a twenty-one year term in return for just £20,000. Arsenal moved into the catchment area of Tottenham Hotspur and Clapton Orient. Crucially though the site, and nearby transport links, were closer to central London than either of its new neighbours.
Arsenal now faced a race to build the stadium in time for the new season. The builders, under the supervision of architect Archibald Leitch, made sufficient progress to enable the Gunners to kick off the 1913-14 home campaign against Leicester Fosse with a 2-1 win. A measure of the task was that the pitch had to be raised eleven feet at one end, and lowered by five feet at the other. A new stand, designed to house 9,000 spectators was not completed until later in the season, and for the first few games the players washed in bowls of water, pending completion of the changing rooms. The most famous tale of the construction, since dismissed as a myth, was that whilst tipping hardcore into the foundations of the North Bank a horse (complete with cart) backed into the cavernous pit and was buried alive.
Following the intervention of the First World War Norris was able to ‘engineer’ Arsenal’s return to the First Division and in 1920 the ground hosted its first international fixture. The arrival of Herbert Chapman as manager in 1925 heralded the rise of Arsenal to the pinnacle of the game. In the same year Arsenal paid a further £64,000 to buy the Highbury site outright. The purchase enabled Arsenal to play matches on the ground on Good Friday and Christmas Day. A condition of the original lease had prevented this from happening.
The 1930-31 season saw Arsenal clinch their first Championship with a 3-1 home win over Liverpool. As Arsenal’s fortunes were in the ascendancy, so the stadium began to take on the appearance we would recognise today. In 1932 the impressive £50,000 West Stand, with 4,000 seats constructed over a 17,000 capacity terrace was completed. The unique design of architect Claude Waterlow Ferrier, in association with William Binnie, was the symbol of the ‘Bank of England club’, as Arsenal were then known. Ever the innovator, Herbert Chapman insisted that the new stand should be equipped with floodlights to be used for training. His persuasion of London Transport into renaming the Gillespie Road underground station to Arsenal was even more forward looking and inspired.
On 9th March, 1935, a record 73,295 spectators witnessed the league match with title rivals Sunderland, the resulting draw contributing to the Gunners third consecutive League Championship. In the close season of 1935 a cover was erected over the North Stand, which led to the move of the now famous clock to the southern end of the ground. 1936 saw the completion of the new East Stand at a cost of £130,000. Almost identical on the playing side to its ‘opposite neighbour’, the art deco style structure included 8,000 seats in two tiers, and the most luxurious facilities in the game. The famous marble halls were decorated with a bust of the sadly deceased Chapman, and the changing rooms incorporated under floor heating.
During the final season before the outbreak of the Second World War, Highbury was to bear witness to another ‘first’. In the final home league match against Brentford the visitors wore white shirts and the match scenes were shot as part of ‘The Arsenal Stadium Mystery’, a film based on Leonard Gribble’s novel of the same name. Later that summer Highbury became the set for the completion of the movie.
From 1939 to 1945 Highbury was converted into a home for Air Raid Wardens and used as a first-aid post. Barrage balloons were sighted on the training pitch behind the Clock End. This made the site a ‘legitimate target’ for enemy bombers. Two R.A.F ground crew were killed when the South terracing was hit by a 1000 pound bomb. Incendiary devices collapsed the cover of the North Bank, which would not be rebuilt until 1956. The ground was sufficiently restored for home matches in 1946-47, and was chosen to host football during the 1948 Olympic Games. Three years later ‘match’ floodlights were installed on the roof of both East and West stands and first used for a match between teams representing boxers and jockeys! 50,000 watched Arsenal’s first floodlit contest with Hapoel of Israel. Shortly afterwards 10.000 were locked out when Glasgow Rangers were invited for this novel evening experience.
In 1964 under soil heating was installed to ensure that the pitch was playable year round. During the preceding season Arsenal had made their bow in European competition, hosting Staevnet of Copenhagen before bowing out to Royal Liege in the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup. Two years later another top sporting event came to the Arsenal Stadium as avid Gunner, Henry Cooper, attempted unsuccessfully to defeat Muhammad Ali in a non-title heavyweight boxing contest. In 1969 an additional 5,200 seats were installed in the lower West Stand, just in time to witness Arsenal’s first European trophy. The European Fairs Cup of 1969-70 was captured with a 3-0 defeat of Anderlecht in the home leg, following a 3-1 away defeat.
It was not only spectator facilities that were being improved. The old training pitch behind the Clock End found itself converted into an indoor training centre and car park. In later years this centre would also provide a popular community venue. The days of the Clock End as an uncovered terrace came to an end in 1989, as the current construction of executive boxes and additional offices were added. Four years later the seating was installed in two phases. The remaining terracing in front of the East and West stands was also converted to seating by this time.
The redevelopment of the North Bank, in the art deco style of it’s older neighbours, took just over a year from May 1992 to August 1993, during which time the backdrop was provided by a never to be forgotten mural of an artist’s impression of the finished stand. One of the most famous ‘ends’ in the country was replaced by the 12.000 capacity, two tier construction under architect Rod Sheard of the Lobb partnership, and mainly financed by the controversial ‘bond scheme’. When the all seating schemes, required by the Taylor report, were complete the capacity of the famous old stadium had been cut to under 39,000.
The advent of the Premiership, the Champions League, and digital televisions millions led to the inevitable investigation into a new larger home. Successfully filling Wembley for the early Champions League matches strengthened the argument for a bigger base. Watching the resulting elevation of the Ashburton Grove site has filled all with confidence for a healthy future. However, for at least one more generation, the spiritual home of this fabulous football club will always be Highbury. How good it is to see the main East and West structures, listed buildings both, and the playing area, being sympathetically incorporated into a new and lasting design for its future.
The atmosphere of days gone by has been recaptured during the farewell season. That Highbury feeling has always been more than just the bricks and mortar. The old half-time scoreboards that stretched around the south-east and north-west corners of the ground. The Metropolitan Police band and Constable Alex Morgan singing his heart out. The ‘Make money with Arsenal’ girls of the seventies and eighties. The terrace vendor with his sack, and piercing cry of ‘peanuts’. On and on the memories go. How fitting that the last few seasons of an iconic venue should have witnessed the teams created by Arsene Wenger. I think Norris and Chapman would have approved.
Thank you for your time.
443 Responses to “A History Of Highbury – The Arsenal Stadium”
Get them in lads
Beauty
Nice.
I also approve. 😉
Top shelf blog once again ‘holic, sir.
One historical post a week the whole summer long?
You’re spoiling us. 🙂
The science ( underground heating) The history (being hit by incoming) The trivia (Henry Cooper v Ali (The Greatest). Unanswered question ‘The make money girls’ of the 70’s and 80’s, mystery to me. Really too much to comment on, but thoroughly enjoyed it.
And the Truth will give us one hysterical post per……hour.
Top shelf Yellow Spot then for the barman
Fine, fine post, guv’nor. Well worth a large glass of Islay’s best.
Abb, the make money with Arsenal girls sold the equivalent of scratch cards today. Instant win gambles. Times were tight 😉
From previous.
Nice link that, Tabs. Good to get a fans perspective rather then that of a journo. I’m still not convinced either way yet, but I do know one thing. If he signs, I’ll welcome him and he’ll be the greatest thing since the greatest other thing after sliced bread*, if he doesn’t, meh, I never liked him anyway. 😉
*I’m well capable of slicing my own bread so never really got what all the fuss was about. 🙂
Times were tight
And so were their jeans. 😯
Ok Holic, Thought it had to be something along those lines 😉 Really liked all the back story. Recently read that Chapman was the Father of sound defence. Very nice.
And thank you ‘holic for your great and evocative historical writing on all things Arsenal. I liked this one in particular. 🙂
Thanks for taking the time and effort to script that Holic.
I may even remember the photo. 🙂
Beautiful Highbury.
Great post Holic. Keep them coming. I love being spoiled! 😉
I made sure that my pilgrimage to the HOF included a stroll around the old grounds. Just wish I could have snuck in the gates behind someone and walked where the pitch once stood. Maybe next time.
Thanks for that very informative piece Guv’, by far the best I’ve read on the history of our spiritual home. Thanks, once again.
Amazing how little I knew about a place I have been so often.
Really good, interesting read.
Cheers Holic.
Memories…beautifully described Holic. The Met Police band marching up and down the pitch at half time waiting for the band leader twirling his baton / mace to drop it…He never did. A cup of Bovril to warm you up on a cold winters saturday afternoons and those “wonderful” urinals at the clock end where you dared not linger for health reasons. Looking at the boards at the corners of the pitch where the half time and full time scores of all the other games would be posted – the inevitable loud cheer if the LWC were losing / lost. Walking past Jack Kelsey’s gunners shop, past the supporter club “house” on Gillespie Road and back to Finsbury Park for the first beer and dissemination of the game…often in the 60s & 70s a quick groan, it will be better next week and time for another pint.
Looking forward to your regular historic scribes during the “summer” break.
Upply – good to see you. I enjoyed our joust for 6th place in the You Ropey League – you won’t see me for dust next season 🙂
I seem to recall reading once that when Huddersfield Town were raided by the police some time in the twenties, Chapman, who was the manager at the time was found in the offices burning the books. One of my favourite pieces of trivia.
Good piece Guv’nor, good luck with your resolution – if you manage it, ’twill be a bumper summer. (Hopefully to be followed by a bumper 2013-14 season :-).)
Awesome, ‘Holic. Enjoyed every word. More of the same, please.
Cheers ‘H, lovely piece. My old entrance to where my season ticket was is in your photo (first turnstile on the left past the shop). Happy happy days.
H2H – make you right there. Love him if he comes, meh if he doesn’t.
Up – Ah but he did!! On one glorious rainy Saturday in the late seventies, he dropped it twice in a row!! And how we roared.
Easily pleased in those days 😉
Remember that Tabs @23 / Uply.
The “roar” to try and make him drop that mace was sometimes the loudest one of the day as the seventies wore on.
We were really poor after the double side was broken up but, somehow, nobody really seemed to worry that much in those days.
Imagine if ‘thetruth’ had been on the internet in those days.
Zico @6. 🙂
Indeed Trev.
I don’t think he would have coped 😉
Nice one Uply.
Aaah, tabs beat me to it, I remember him droping it on quite a few occasions… good times.
PNUTZ, PNUTZ……GIT URE ROAAASTED PEENUUUTZZZZ.
Tanner a bag ! 😉
Quite right Trev. I always wondered how I would see the fella regardless of whether I was in the North Bank or Clock End.
Turns out it was twins. Amazing.
“Peanuts, roasted peanuts”
well, color me green. lovely, ‘holic. that’s as evocative a piece as you’ve done. i can smell the peanuts roasting, and see the money girls as they walk away in their knee-high boots and short skirts (true or no 🙂 ). not to mention the roar of 73K folks, and the thud of an alex james goal off the crossbar.
sadly, i’ll never see it as it was, though i hope to see a game at the ems sometime before i die. you who were there, and you who can go now, please realize just how blessed you are as arsenal fans.
Cheers all. Tabs/Trev/h2h. The roar when he did a high twirl…regret missed the times he dropped it.
Peanuts…tanner a bag…used to shell out for one 😉
Oxon….for the “Ropey League”, like you no scum in our teams viz LWC, manure, ManShitty, Chel$ki and even Bindippers. I did include the latter at the start but Tabs put me right and they were also excluded. Hopefully we will joust for position next season. Congrats by the way to the winner…think it was Lurky.
Thats a fine read holic.
I just gave my last bottle of Bushmills to my contractor who recently wrecked and is slowly – slowly – unwrecking my bathrooms. (A bribe of sorts – but its hard work. Looks it anyway).
So some of Irelands finest for you sir – on my tab.
uply, yeah, the ropey league…i’m in the relegation zone, iirc. and i wasn’t even trying to suck 🙂 definite congrats to lurky, and hopefully next year i’ll get the hang of it and move to mid-table.
As for the silly season AW has my faith. Hes earned it. Sure theres a few chamaks and parks in his skeleton closet and a few others – but by and large AW knows.
But if my main man Bacary Sagna gets no luv – well, ill be reconsidering!
And in homage to the tooth the original or, one of them … Heres a random untethered fact masquerading as a talking point:
By the time the average American is 50, he has approximately 50 lbs of undigested red meat in his bowels AND which surely proves that Wenger is over paid.
To think we might have been amalgamated with the Cottagers. Yikes! We’d really be in the toilet now…
Oskar
@Trev 24 Billy Wright out
Everybody seen the video of all Arsenal’s goals for the season at Arseblog News? It’s quite a show and a good catchup for me since I missed quite a few along the way.
Fantastic piece ‘holic – time has not dimmed its brilliance.
Might not be such a bad Australian winter without Arsenal on the pitch if you are going to produce regular historical pieces.
Thanks to you and all the regulars for a fantastic season off the pitch and may next season be just as good out on the pitch!
thetruth in the seventies, Trev? He wasn’t born until at least the millennium!
Oskar
Lovely read, ‘Holic. Brought back some memories.
A footnote to the proposed Fulham merger: had it gone ahead, Norris intended to move to a new, purpose built and larger stadium nearby, and, in another foreshadowing of Arsenal’s future, leave behind an Archibald Leitch designed stadium, as Craven Cottage was.
Speaking of history:
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/198876/rare-color-film-shows-what-london-looked-like-in-1927/
Great stuff boss, loved reading it.
Back to yellow for next season maybe?
http://www.footyheadlines.com/2013/01/arsenal-13-14-away-shirt-leaked.html
CoR, yes please, I would like us wearing these ones next season, frankly, anything is better than that purple-black atrocity:P Also, was not 2004 last time we had away kit in these colors? Might be a good omen:)
I would love it! So I can finally stop playing fitba in my signed 2003-04 Ljungberg shirt 😉
Hehs @onlyonetruth, Oskar.
Lovely piece there Holic, makes me feel warm inside to remember the former home of football.
Only went there two or three times but feel blessed to have done so. What a place! Stands crowding in so close to the pitch you could almost smell the sods. Smoking still allowed inside the ground. That beautiful art deco facade welcoming you as you approached down Gillespie Road.
On my first visit I was treated to an absolute collector’s item of a night which included two goals from our very own Martin Keown. He did one of the best celebrations I’ve seen, running to the corner flag and striking the pose of a sentinel on duty standing to attention.
Speaking of goals, I highly recommend watching the individual videos of Santi’s, Giroud’s, Poldi’s and Theo’s goals from the whole season.
Just sit back and take them in, there’s some strikes of real quality. Makes me optimistic about next season knowing we’re the only team in the league to have 4 players score in double figures in 2012-13.
The “leaked away kit” @43 is merely a polo t-shirt.
It has buttons, and a label hanging from the collar for crying out loud!
[…] vielä Goonerholicin päivitys Highburysta ja siinä ohessa muutakin seuran historiaa. Todella hyvää ja mielenkiintoista luettavaa, joten […]
À bas Don Howe. ‘ow you say? Howe out!
Wenger afuera!
Lleva puesto un abrigo ridiculo, perdio un partido hace 8 anhos y no tiene la menor idea como controlar un club de futbol!
I’m beginning to think there are no easy solutions and that the current situation might very well last for all our lifetimes …
http://www.amshold.com/social_media/points_failure.jpg
Oi, behave yerselves 😉
Re: Lars @42. Great historical footage. It feels like yesterday. Almost. My Dad was 3 years old in 1927, actually. 😉 But I would have chosen to see Arsenal rather than the cricket.
Afternoon all.
Nice footage Lars, good find!
Heh @ Tabs.
Well done to Lurky for the resounding victory in the Your Ropey League, despite a late charge I have to settle for second place, which is a vast improvement on last year so watch out for me next season when I’ll be giving it my all…………………… and ending up in midtable. 😉
On the subject of competitions, tonight is the final game of the season in the darts league, a home game that if we win should see us promoted as champions, the match starts at 8 o clock this evening, so to be sure of a favourable result, I’ve got the team coming around at 5 to do some serious in-drinking……. Don’t want to leave anything to chance. 🙂
Wenger ‘raus !!!
Was ist mit diesem Klub und der hiring von dem doppel Doppelwinningenmanager.
Geb aus etwas fucking Geld !!!!!!!
Tabs @52 – 😆
I actually can’t read Arseblog for laughing at the headline picture. 😆
Уилшир – То, что мы должны сделать, чтобы оспорить
So it’s language day here today? Ngwanu wazobia…
Фала на сите за честитките за победата во Your Ropey League! Се надевам другата година ќе биде поинтересно оти оваа бевте дрва.
Niko kao Arsenal…i niko i nikada…
阿仙奴加油 !!!!!!!
(meaning COYG in Chinese)
Ndi oma na eso Arsenal, ndi egwu, ndi kacha agba na uwa nile gburugburu, eke ne m’unu!
Silly Second Yella, nisi valjda nash?
Eh ?
All this eastern European stuff …
I just hired an eastern European cleaner. Took her 15 hours to hoover my house.
Turns out she’s a Slovak. 😉
Need a babel fish, Trev? But, beware, you will be able to understand Vogon poetry.
I’d love to know what a ‘Doppelwinningenmanager’ is!
Heh at tabs link @ 52.
Camberwell @69, there’s only one still in a Premiership job.
Ah – double winning??
Camb@69 – A “double-winning manager”? In fact, doppel Doppelwinningenmanager – a twice double-winning manager.
Ooops, just a tad too slow there.
Oxon’s tip for the day – When confronted by German, don’t panic, try inserting a few spaces and see if it looks as though it might make sense.
Has anyone written ” Wenger out” in American?
Texan? “That there Franch dude needs to go over yonder”
Cali? ” yo dude, like Arsene, it’s time you took your parka and like cruised into the sunset. ”
Canadian? “Wenger oot”
😉
Cheers all.
Beograd, LO, Beograd.
Heh Norcal, didn’t even know we were meant to write “Wenger out” ngwanu Wenger puo!
Trev@67, I almost missed that. (sighs) if only, if only…
Trev – Next time, czech before you hire her.
Good job you didn’t take her on as a cook, or you might have gone Hungary.
That would have been a bit of a bulgar.
I see people here are balkan’ at the idea of an Eatsren or South Eastern punfest, but sadly it’s all greece’d to my mill.
Oxon, now you’re talking Turkey.
East European pun?
Czech this out!
H2H, mate, I hate to break it to you but I think you should see 78.
You wouldn’t estonia me while I was trying to make a buck?
All these geographical puns are making me map.
😳
Trev….she was a bit Slovenlia..the vacuuming must of took her Aeg’es.:-)
She was Slow….. wasn’t Russian around then.
Geographical puns? I’m north interested!
I know Trev will come and make my 89 look like a west of time.
Go on Trev, I might protest but you won’t hear me south.
Trev
She obviously wasn’t Russing to get things done.
Do you realise we only scored 2 goals from set pieces last PL season, not good enough.
Delia, we tried but apparently it was not EAStY.
Delia, we tried but apparently it was not EAStY
I agree with Delia. Our set plays and corners were again poor. I would prefer not to have theo take our free kicks. I am surprised we don’t have someone who is good at them in dangerous positions. It is a skill that can be practiced. You only need a ball a goal and some of those metal fences. You know we will get a fair number of free kicks at the edge of the box every year. We should have someone that can clear the wall and hit the target 50% of the time. We don’t. I can only remember Poldi hitting a decent one all season. I don’t remember Theo ever hitting the target and I don’t think Santi was any better.
Ronaldo, Fale and others are good at them because they obviously practice them a lot.
Evening all.
There seems to be some football on: Bundesliga relegation play-offs.
Delia, I can think of at least five goals from set pieces at the drop of a hat – free kick v Southampton at home, corner v ManC, corner v Fulham at home, corner v West Ham at home, free kick v Stoke at home and free kick v Fulham away.
Actually, that was six goals. And that did not include Giroud heading home v Liverpool at the Emirates and Koscielny v Newcastle just the other day.
The direct ones were often very very poor. And yes some corners aren’t always great, but it happens to the best.
What Lars said.
*takes free-kick*
Lars. I am most impressed at your power of recall. Respect.
I still think we are crap at free kicks and corners though.
*dinks ball to the edge of the box*
ad it runs all the way over the line…. 😀
You just scored for one, baff, well done.
NorCal: I’m not sure we were that bad, to be honest. In my reply to Delia I mentioned eight league goals from set pieces. And I just remembered that we scored one at White Hart Lane as well so there’s nine goals right there which is more than 12% of our total goals tally.
Thanks Ollie, pure accident.
corner v Wigan at home, free kick v Soton away.
Great interplay between Ollie and baff to hammer it home!
Well in Baff
Well in Bath!
ah, tabs adds two so that’s 11/73 which is just over 15% of our goals which is not a bad number at all.
Per scored home and away against the LWCs from set pieces.
If anything, I’d say those numbers show we should perhaps have scored more from open play. Apart from corners and free kicks there were a few pelanty goals as well.
(and it’s 15/72, slight typo there)
Thank you gentlemen. I dedicate this century to the Arsenal squad whose efforts since the Bayern away game salvaged this season and are 3-4 top signings away from a challenge to the Premiership.
Cent, the one at home v the LWC:s wasn’t from a set piece.
Lars,
I do think our free kicks in the 20-30 yards out range were poor. I agree that our corner routine did show some improvement this year. We at least ran some sort of variation of mertesacker to the near post all season. Some of the corners we scored from were also because of absolute horrible defending (Wigan).
What I want to see improve is the free kicks from dangerous positions. I never had a feeling we would score from a free kick at the edge of the box. Van purstrings wasn’t bad but also not outstanding. This year I think only Poldi scored one against Soton?
Penalties are set pieces. I can’t remember us getting that many, and of course I remember one we missed, but I’m sure we’ve scored at least a couple too…
Lars, noted.
Norcal, agreed.
ah, I see 111 from Lars (who else? 😉 ). Where did all these drinks come from?
We should also add to our corner routine. It’s not that hard to have 3-4 different corner routines that can be switched up based on how the defense and keeper are playing. I was pleased that we at least showed that we were practicing something.
Cheers.
Ollie, I think we got 5 in the league and Arteta converted 4 and missed 1.
Ollie,
I think Arteta was 3 for 4 on penalty kicks.
Maybe I’m being harsh ( I don’t really mean to be) but I do think we can improve on our delivery on all our free kicks in the final third. Either the direct ones, or the ones that should be swing in to the far post. Most of those seemed to miss the target badly.
I’m with NorCal on the free kicks. I do think corners improved this season, from the very beginning with the odd flick on routine though we scored from too few of them. Arteta was a reliable penalty taker and missed only one (losing 2 pointsas a result).
However we were completely shite at free kicks from the edge of the box and that is definitely an area where improvement can be achieved next season. I can’t remember who said it above but it’s not necessarily a god-given talent, it can be worked on and Poldi, Arteta and Santi should be capable of it.
Between this and the Wigan corner, opposition defenses seem to be making a habit of leaving Podolski unmarked in the six year box when our headers are coming in. I suppose he must be a stealthy kind of guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toSmGudApas
Evening all. I suppose we didn’t get there in the end. Turned off after the Lord Sugar tweet.
Heartbroken.
What?
You’re kidding me …
Haha ‘holic
I hope you saw my drink about the French Cup Final one or two days ago.
I’ll be there (€25 would have been rude not to), so probably won’t be tweeting along with you during the game!
And despite these not being the 2 most popular teams, I suspect the game being played on a Friday night (what a stupid idea) has something to do with it still not being sold out 2 days after going on sale.
Heh @123.
Bizarre drinks,
From die auslaendischen language Studenten, zu den eastern Europaeischen punsfesten, zu den seriosen Fussball Commentar.
And then we have @92 !
That was a fairly half-baked comment, “Delia from Norwich”,
Sorry, I know it’s not worthy, but somebody had to do it.
Hey, Camberwell,
hope the Germanglish is clear enough ? 😉
Oxon’s right, a few well placed blanks make everything good. Unless you work in a fertility clinic, of course.
There’s a good little book by Gerard Hoffnung that has some great examples of a sort of European amalgamation of German and English.
For example: the Windschutzscheibetoandfroenflippenfloppen, are “windscreen wipers”.
Wind-schutz-scheibe – windscreen (wind – protection – screen)
Toandfroen – To and fro (en)
Flippen Floppen – that’s what they do – flip and flop.
Simples. 😉
Ligue 1 fans, don’t look for Capoue or Gonalons on the last matchday on Sunday: they’re both suspended.
Oh no they’re not Ollie !
It clearly means we have already signed both of them !
Put it on Twatter and then, in the morning, we can read in the papers how much they have cost. 😉
The 1-1 jokes never get old, do they Holic? 🙂
Something like that Trev. Maybe we can wait for Sunday to spread the rumour that they’re in London (until someone spots them in the stands in France, that is….)
They don’t Lars 😉
Great article, thanks
Well, nowhere in the article did Wenger actually say that Chelsea were flops but perhaps he should have considering that the Star says he said it in their headline. Why do these papers report things in the headline that they can’t back up by putting them into the actual article? Dumb question, I know. 🙁
Referenced article is at:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/315343/Arsene-Wenger-blasts-Chelsea-saying-they-are-just-Champions-League-flops/
The dog knows.
Arsene, too, for that matter. 🙂
http://arsenalcartoons.com/
8Ball, Just feel this summer is going to be something special 😉 Does anyone know why the marching bands fell out of favour at Highbury? Lars, enjoyed that clip! Found this quote from a gentleman who attended the Tottenham v Arsenal game in 1950 right before Christmas,when he was just a lad. We lost to them. A mean Spuds lady said to him “That’s yer Christmas present, yer little Arsenal shit.” Please foks, ‘have at em! Think that was the rottenest think I’ve ever read 🙁 Nite all 😉
I’ve just found a Fantasy North London XI over on the Daily Telegraph site. 3 Good guys (Santi, LJW and Feo) and 8 spuds. I guess the fantasy element is the sixteenth (or is it seventeenth? I lose count) consecutive celebration of St Totteringham’s day.
The only possible explanation for the Gunners scoring more points over the course of an entire season with a worse team is that the Arse manager is better than the Sp*ds manager, but we all know that just ain’t so.
Sigh, pundits, eh? You gotta love ’em
Oxon,
Unbelievable back line in that XI – Alan Smith’s no less.
I don’t bother watching the Spuds myself, but every Tottnum fan I know says that Walker has been really poor this season. Assou-Ekotto hasn’t played that much through injury, I believe, and they’re not that keen on Defoe due to his greediness and inconsistency.
Strange that Jack W makes the side although he has been injured and, to be honest, inconsistent most of the time, and who would take Dawson and Caulker over Mertesacker and Koscielny.
Hard to believe that team is really Alan Smith’s work, but it ain’t going to win him many admirers.
Great Article Holic !.. Being a far away supporter , im a little short on the heritage, history and the cultural importance of Highbury and what it meant to people beyond the team on the pitch. Articles such as these are essential in my Arsenal education. So Thank you !!
Was reading the guardian article on the German Academies. Some wonderful insight into what goes into developing a player.. One of the links posted talks about the AJAX youth setup. Fascinating stuff..
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
We are lucky that we have a club that cherishes youth development.
Best free kick I remember in recent years was a thumping goal by Arteta against Liverpoo in 2011-2012. Apart from penalties I don’t remember him even taking one this last season.
It makes sense either Theo or Santi taking the corners, neither is going to be much use contesting in the area. But then I never could understand RvP taking them. And never mind who takes them they rarely gets them in the right place anyway. Certainly room for improvement in both taking and defending corners.
Oskar
Oskar @142 .. We do need a lot of work on our deliveries from Corners. Almost all of them are either flat or flighted deliveries rarely crossing the first defender. RVP was the only one who delivered vicious curling corners.
Nasri played 26 games, Clichy 28 and Toure a massive EIGHT that year. Sure, City won the league. On goal difference, in the last seconds of stoppage time, after spending nearly £400m in three seasons. Wow, what a club to look up to.
Robin van Persie? Well how surprising that a player going to a club that had won 12 Premier League titles in 20 years managed to win the league. I’m frankly astounded that the most successful club in English football managed to win the league after buying a man who had scored almost 100 league goals in less than 200 games for Arsenal.
Cesc and Song? They joined the best club side in the world, playing in a two team league. The chances of them winning a title must have been TINY. Almost non existent.
Your point?
Trolls don’t have a point
Oh an Modric joined the other team in that 2 team league and couldn’t win squat. And your savior Bale? Got you 5th. At least RVP carried us to 3rd.
Nice job picking wage bill as your marker. How about net spend? Since 2006 Arsenal have a 40 million profit. Tots? 65 million loss. And yet you still fail to top is in the league. No worries. Keep trying.
If city didn’t subsidize Ade’s wages and you up bales wages to 170k/ week you wage bill will increase significantly.
moo
Are the trolls holding a convention here? I hope you’re charging them a decent hiring fee ‘holic! Or better still an indecent one.
Memo trolls: Do tell us what team/s you actually support, we need a laugh.
Oskar
Heh,Oskar
I do hope they found a Chelski site to troll too, so that they can tell them the value of the 3 points they paid for to finish ahead of Spuds. Or City and how much it cost them to win nothing this year.
I wish they would at least come up with something clever. The same pissing and moaning every night is getting so……..sad.
As Whodini said in the 80’s: the freaks come out at night.
“the truth” muscle mary protein shakes ?
do you have them ?
are you one ?
or indeed do you shake like one ?
Hey cba,
Hope things are well. Up a bit early, eh?
many moos norcal
many moos
hows yoos
🙂
well i hope
all of this is sideways compared to the kerry blue i got involved in a doggy row with
yup
i’m more than aware i got bit
my left leg is still a bit west ham
but
it was a wee elderly jack russell and the kb woulda locked its jaws on it and not let go
it ended up – in the matter of seconds
nicely
but the kerry blue had to be lifted up and took round the corner
lovely dogs to look at but nutter killing machines
.
anyhoo
enough moos from me
toodle oo ‘hol and ‘hols
all the best
.
don’t wake me up
i’m decidedly thinkin about gettin asleep
.
baa
oscar@142, poldi’s first free kick goal for us this year was pretty, as well. I look forward to more of those next year.
quiet in the bar tonight…. i wonder where shaft hid that spare can of moustache grease.
yawns…stretches…ah well, there will be an arsenal fan to chat with on another visit.
That’s right. No one can handle the truth.
Truth boy back to lead us. Come on truth boy, give us a song. Lead us to the promised land…… You are the light. You are our saviour. All hail the truth boy.
Bring back Victor, that’s what I say.
WagKnob aaaahhhhhhttttttt.
Truth Boy innnnnnnnnnnn. And Victor.
Morning all.
Great Nostalgia piece holic. A very enjoyable read.
Some interesting stuff above followed by shite. My guess is this could be as high as the early 160’s in the next few hours.
😀
Thought so.
Morning H.
😀
Benteke has reportedly issued a “come and get me” plea to Arsenal. I’d heard previously that he’s a Gooner.
What do we reckon? I think he’d be a great addition if we could get him for less than £20m.
Trev, I’ll do my best to get my head round your, er, foreign tongue (stop sniggering you lot!).
So did I miss another infestation, I mean visitation, by Truth Boy? Hope noone got dribbled on.
I understood a CBA post!!! One of them.
I must be drunk, surely? 😉
And what’s this Benteke rumour nonsense? Well, he said…
“If Aston Villa say I must stay, I won’t necessarily accept that. If the chance comes up for me to join a club like Arsenal, I’m convinced we can reach a compromise where everyone comes out a winner.”
…which is either a ‘come and get me’, a random example of another club off the top of his head or absolutely nothing at all. (I’m going for option 1 combined with option 3).
Not at all convinced, he could be one of these “one brilliant season in the midst of years of mediocrity” players.
Heh @ 165
Dr C, if you’re not drunk this is purely a timing issue, no?
@ 166
I think Benteke would struggle at Arsenal – he is permanenently caught offside (reminds me of someone from a Wham song) 😉
He’s a physical handful for sure, but not sure he’s what we need.
I think Benteke has proven his quality in a struggling side and his ability to score regularly in the Prem. He is a better buy for us than either Jovetic (fancy forward who fails to score regularly) or Higuain (flat track bully in La Liga, who hasn’t cut it in ECL).
Sign him up Dick. Make sure you don’t sign Bent by mistake, there’s a love.
I shouldn’t read pieces about Highbury. It makes me too nostalgic. Don’t mind the Emirates but it has changed the character of the club and not completely in a good way. I suspect we took life for granted at times and thought it would last for ever. I used to get a bigger tingle looking out on the pitch at Highbury than I do now. And to think we could watch Bergkamp,Henry, Pires ,Vieira and Ray Parlour all in the same team. We were truly spoilt.
But football finances move on and season ticket renewals go out. My feeling is that there is a rosy glow about the club at the moment and they should go quite well. I still don’t expect too much in the transfer market though. I don’t think Arsene can turn himself into a mega- spender even though we have a lot of money sloshing around.
I wonder do drinkers in this bar regret the move or was it inevitable given capacity limits at Highbury?
Zico
You´re right – my timing is a little off. All will be rectified. Very shortly…. 🙂
@TTG
The heart regrets the move, the head does not.
TTG – cause and effect, surely? The last years at Highbury coincided with the decline of a number of great players and the first few years at Ashburton Grove have seen a natural reversion to the mean, no doubt made worse by the financial after effects of the building project (not to mention The Global Downturn).
Why not compare the past few years with the Sixties, or some of Graham’s off years? At least the football is pretty at times these days.
Also, and whisper this, I’m not entirely certain I buy all this easy stuff about Wenger refusing to buy players. Sure, he’s been very frugal over the past few years – building project? Global Downturn? – but I seem to recall a number of purchases during his early years at the club.
Arsène certainly doesn’t know everything, he may even not know best, but he sure as hell knows better than I do, and I am more than content to wait and see what he does, and judge him on results. After all, with a squad containing only eight of the best eleven players in the premier league playing for North London and Middlesex clubs (source: Daily Telegraph) he managed, yet again, to finish the season above the other NL&M club.
TTG
What N7 said! 🙂
Beer o´clock….
Oxon, I second you on the comment about waiting to judge Wenger by results.
Idiots like the dribbling, slack-jawed halfwits who sometimes find their way into the bar when the landlord leaves the back door open would immediately say to that, “Wot reezults?? Wagknob ahht!” or the terminally retarded “In Wenger we rust, look at me I don’t have one original thought in my head.”
I’m ashamed to admit I was frankly starting to feel anti-Wenger for a lot of 2011-12 and part of this campaign too, but if life – and by extension football – has taught me anything, it’s always ‘look at the bigger picture’.
Right now that picture is starting to look well painted from where I’m sitting. I’m optimistic about next season and certainly don’t want anyone else in charge.
It’s silly season people, we need a list of ways to pass the time, the sillier the better.
I’ll start the bidding with…
Mornington Crescent
Hello all,
You can’t start there Camberwell 🙂
Sorry you appear to be talking to yourself Steve. I’m afraid our anally retentive Cannuck troll spouted many made up ‘facts’ as well as his usual personal abuse.
Please ignore him. I can lose his dross in a couple of key presses.
Not for the first time Holic, if I am being brutally honest.
My stats on goals from set pieces in the PL came from the Club’s own web site! (excluding pens).
I think I have failed to share with the bar the fact that I’m “off to Wemberlee” tomorrow for the UCL final, courtesy once more of my Sp*d-supporting mate. May I, once more appeal to fellow drinkers for advice on any topics of conversation to avoid, for fear of comitting some dreadful breach of etiquette.
Fortunately, his car is a manual, so I will be spared the horrors of accidentally commenting on the smoothness of any power shifts.
Oxon, have you asked him to check all the wheelnuts are properly tightened up before you begin your journey?
It’s good to see that Stoke are doing their best to maintain their loathability quotient in their choice of a manager to succeed Pulis.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22649939
A few centuries ago, a certain Roman Emperor had this to say about “FACTS”….
“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
Could be applied to The Arsenal, especially for some of the window lickers (and AL 🙂 )
Oxon
You could ask him why he prefers to drive rather than get the Tube… ?
#MTG#
bt8, it’s a match made in heaven.
A team of hideous cunts to be managed by, um, a hideous cunt.
Good, because I would hate it if Stoke hired someone likeable.
Camberwell
Which edition are you playing?
CG I quite like the George V variant but with an option to engage Pilkington’s Addendum.
catalan
ya cheeky wee monkey
Cheers H, lovely piece.
@cba
Dunnoe if you’ve read any Kevin Sampson, in ‘Outlaws’, there’s a brilliant description of a Kerry Blue killing a Pekinese. Fucking nutter dogs they are.
@ttg
I bitterly regret the move, for me it will never be the same. However I think it was a very brave move by the club and future generations of fans will have massive respect for the Board who took it and delivered it.
First sighting of our two new speedy wingers:
http://assets2.motherboard.tv/content-images/contentimage/no-slug/ed3e94b352db2770a40ef64478ef60a5.jpg
Afternoon all.
When I left the U.K shores Highbury still had standing terraces, that was my Highbury.On a return visit to London in the mid nineties, I ofcourse made a visit to the old gal, managing to secure tickets for the home game against Newcastle, a two nil win (if memory serves) in the “I’d luv it if we did it” (Keegan) season.
As a nipper, the Clock End was where I first sampled the delights of the rip roaring reds, but on this day I was returning to the end where I had spent most of my early teen years, the always chanting and jumping North Bank. In days gone by, my mate (his father worked the turnstiles) and I would arrive a good two-three hours before kick off, to secure our spot, smack bang in the middle of the stand, on the raised embackment, above the walkway, no such actions were needed to be taken anymore as we arrived at the now all seater stadium at approx 10 mins before kick off.
The seats were great, just a little bit more to the left then where I stood as a lad, I must admit the view was a lot better then I had ever experienced before too, was also great that no one was trying to clinb on top of me 😉 I loved every minute, but it just wasn’t quite the same, it was a lot calmer and sterile (for lack of a better word) then I remembered.
I believe that the move to the Grove was inevitable and necassary for our growth as a club and as Esso said above an extreamly brave move that will pay dividends in the future. The atmosphere may not be the same as it was at Highbury, but for me, Highbury wasn’t really Highbury anymore either. Maybe in the future the PL will embrace the Bundesliga model of intergrating controlled standing terraces into our stadia, that would go a long way to restoring the old school atmosphere,(wouldn’t hold my breath though) but until then we should revel in the fact that we have one of the, if not the best grounds in the league.
Gibraltar has been accepted as a full member membership of Uefa, European football’s governing body.
Will Bale be eligable to play for them?
70 million for 2 players ( Rodriguez and Moutinho) is just ridiculous.
The only funny thing is watch spuds go ballistic because they missed out on Moutinho.
Monaco is now pissing on FFP. It’s just ridiculous.
45 million for Rodriguez? Wow
Heh @ H2H. Laffin’.
Oxon,
I presume he has a BMW ?Quite appropriate tomorrow.
If its an X5 ‘mind the gap ‘when you get in!
Your point about comparisons with the past is fair as I can remember many seasons that don’t compare at all favourably to this one except perhaps for ignominious exits from the domestic cups.
The last days of Wright, Mee, Neill and Graham were not pretty notwithstanding some of what went before. Perhaps my biggest regret is the corporatisation of Arsenal which is inevitable but still sticks in the throat when a woman berated me very aggressively last season because I didn’t know where the Barclays Box was. I still don’t .
Speak of the devil and up he shall pop 8)
It was dark and quiet night, pregnant with expectation…
Benteke!?
Mmmmmmm, not that sure. Yeah he had a decent, first less we forget season. big strong, not the quickest thing on two legs though.
20 mill? No thank you very much. For that kinda cash you could make a checky bid for a player like Michu or Lukaku, both better then Benteke (imho).
Big, strong and slow is how I like my women 😀
Lurky drink.
Bang!
Well in Cent
Was expecting Shaft to drive it in. Well in Cent. 🙂
Ttg @169 – I agree with everybody else. I think the only fair answer to both your questions is Yes. The move was both regrettable and inevitable.
N7 @163 – Benteke? Looks a good player, could go on to become a great one. At the kind of prices being floated about though (20m+), he would be a massive gamble for me. He could go on to be another Drogba. He could just as easily go on to be another Carlton Cole. And maybe too similar to Giroud? I’m not convinced he would be much of an upgrade, if at all. I’d give him another Season at Villa. If he’s still doing the business, then look at him again next Summer.
Oxon @179 Enjoy the game. Hope you’re taking a yellow and black scarf.
Camberwell – Hehs @various. 🙂
Stoke must be managed by an utterly hideous cunt. To have even a modicum of respect for a Stoke Manager is unthinkable.
H2H @190 – Great stuff. And heh at 191.
H2H, I don’t think Benteke is slow(he is definitely faster than Giroud) and I rate him higher than Michu.
Well in Cent.
And welcome back to the waxed moustache man!
Cheers H2H and 8Ball.
Cheers TaBS.
Tabs, my fellow summer spinner of stories!
How’s it been old chap???
And how’s Carlos and El Jefe?
They must be busy kicking out the loanees at the moment I imagine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8V3mIL0EXc
http://t.co/iJLkTjWwGv enjoy this 1:53 minutes of unadulterated grandiose.
Benteke better then Michu?
We’ll most definetly have to agree to disagree on that my friend. Benteke may be a pretty decent target man, but compared to Michu he’s a one trick pony.
The Spainards all round game is far superior to that of the Belgiums, without a doubt the signing of the season last year. Laudrup picked him up for 2mill, Benteke cost 7mill, that was a bargain. But once again, let’s not forget that they both were in their first seasons this term, next season they could both be great or just as likely, pants. The Tabs endoursed Drogba/Cole Equation.
I just left a comment as “jetlifari” on that video Cent’Berry! Nostalgic clip 😀
H2H, no problem, mate, next season will indeed give us a clearer idea of who is the better player of the two.
Shaft – Haha, I’m fine thanks, you? El Jefe and Carlos have been in hibernation, but I expect they might make an appearance at some stage over the loooong Summerlul.
Cent – That Wynne bloke is a bellend amonst bellends. I don’t know whether you’ve seen but he’s been getting an absolute caning on twitter. Well deserved.
H2H – Yep count me in on the “Michu is better than Benteke” team. And heh at the “equation” 🙂
I too will give Michu the edge in all around game.
Benteke is a good target man and had a good season for a poor team. But Michu is a better all around footballer in my view.
I hope all of our new boys don’t suffer a sophomore slump and I hope Poldi gets the rest needed to heal whatever was his problem for clearly 2/3 of the season. He is a good finisher and when healthy he will add much more.
We finished this season with 3 more points than we did the season before and 5 more than the 1 before both. Improvement?
Heard a funny thing last night.
One of my buddies was telling me that monkey boy Bale signed a new deal worth +/- 150k a week AND that it supposedly has a 50mil. break clause – and if a club offers it, he goes.
Followed by my buddy’s devilish thought: buy Bale from Sp*ds.
Hes a right cheat and has arguably the WORST goal celebration in sport. BUT -the man can score goals – is a match winner and has an hawkeye for the net.
Alas … now i feel dirty.
TaBS, I agree that he deserves every bit of the canning for taking bellendry to new heights, I couldn’t believe the things I heard him say in that video, at a point I thought he was taking the piss.
I see I’m the only one on here who thinks Benteke is better than Michu, Michu has a better attitude than him but based on-pitch abilities alone it’s Benteke all day for me.
SHAFT
Can you dig it 😉
That scene from The Warriors
CAN YOU DIG IT?
Cyrus the leader of the gangs.
Top cult film.
“Wariors, come out tp play-aaay”.
Wanted to watch a film back in the day, it was that, Killer Train, The Wanderers or Porkys, nothing else in the newsagents video rack. 🙂
Cent, not sure what you mean with on-pitch abilities
Ofcourse we’re only talking person opinion, I think Michu would fit better, but hey, who am I to judge. So in the interest of fairness I did a little research. I’ll post the findings over two drinks as to avoid the spamfilter.
The first is a fan opinion;
http://passingthearmband.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/discount-hitmen-michu-vs-benteke/
This one from the Daily Fail (as to who was the best signing of the season):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2320154/Top-10-Premier-League-signings-season–Robin-van-Persie-Michu-Christian-Benteke-battle-No-1-spot.html
And finaly some basic stats;
http://www.futhead.com/fifa/players/compare/13476/13364
I suppose in the end it all goes down to personal preference.
Camberwell
If you’re going for the George V variant then it’s advisable to stay clear of the Royal Albert Hall. You’ll be penalised and have to go back to Regents Park
Benteke? No, thank you if the price is 20 mil
Agree with those who think he is similar to Giroud
We need a goal scorer who can create a bit as well. 2004 Henry would just be fine 🙂
H2H, by “on-pitch abilities” I mean judging by only what they do on the pitch alone. I will now delve into those articles but as you, rightly, said it all boils down to personal preferences.
But not if you’re playing Regency rules Dr C, which can of course be introduced at any time after the east/west quadrant is traversed.
Good one to remember mate.
H2H, thanks for those links, I still prefer Benteke though.
http://news.arseblog.com/2013/05/exclusive-interview-with-emma-byrne/
Somehow I was hoping Tim had made a video interview, but no.
Bah 😉
Sanogoal tonight. His last for Auxerre, presumably.
I’ve seen Monaco’s ground. I think it holds 10,000 or something like that. Mind you the sort of people they might get in there might spend tasty prices.But how on earth can they buy two players ?(with surely others to follow-Falcao is going apparently) and comply with FFP. I wonder if Platini realised the biggest problems for FFP would come from France with PSG and Monaco.
I wonder what happens next in the FFP scenario? ?
18,000 indeed ttg, but it’s rarely more than a third full if that.
http://www.lfp.fr/ligue2/affluences/journee
See, average attendance 5,295.
FFP?
I’ll believe it when I see it. The above mentioned clubs, not to mention the Chavs and Citeh piss all over it. Citeh try to circumvent it with dodgy sponsership deals with family member companies, Abromivich doesn’t seem to give a toss, how much did they splash out on players last year? How about the settlements for sacked managers, that must cost a prettty penny too.
Until a big club actualy gets refused entry to the CL, I’ll take the whole FFP with a large fistful of salt.
With your kind permission Holic :
http://www.7amkickoff.com/2013/mikel-arteta-arsenal-player-of-the-year-2012-2013/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+7amkickoff+%287amkickoff%29
FFP is not going to be followed by some. We will just have to see if they have the balls to uphold it. Also, there looks to be some vague warnings and penalties before you actually get kicked out of CL football. Also there is vague wording that says you have ” to be making an effort to balance the books” over several years. Do teams think that because it will take years to implement that they can dump the cash now and build a team that wins now and when FFP kicks in they will be making enough money to improve their books?
It’s up from 4,602 the previous season (their first in L2)
Their last few seasons in Ligue 1 were
11,048 10,833 8,512 7,894 and 6,905 (steady decline).
On their last 2 League winning seasons 1996-1997 and 1999-2000
they averaged respectively 6,079 and 10,259
2002-2003, when they were runner up, 8,448.
I think it’s fair to say that success will not bring a big crowd to the stadium and perhaps they can hope to have a record 12,000 or such (of all the years available on that website, top attendance was 11,775
What H2H said.
I need a drink.
FFP *cont’d.
Let’s say that one of the money clubs are excluded, what’s to stop that club taking Uefa/Fifa to court? When push comes to shove football is a business and who’s to tell a business man how much of his own hard earned he is allowed to flitter away, if he wishes to do so?
I forsee a Bosman like scenario where the case will be fought all the way to the top and in the end Fifa/Uefa will lose.
H2H,
Or they tell UEFA they can have their CL but they are going to form their own SuperLeague and all the mega rich clubs form a new league and take all the TV money and advertising that would follow.
Another possible scenario indeed, NorCal.
However, it was said that most of the big boys actualy endoarsed the FFP rules, again, I’m sceptic to say the least.
Well I did it, darn it….after a long absence from News Now I just had to see what was happening in the “silly season” and it certainly has started….apparently we are signing Shrek in the off-season. Enough for me for a while I guess. Let the back-drinking begin.
Great article on Highbury, never made it there as my discovery of this great club started at Year 1 of the Emirates.
I’ll stick my neck out H2H and say that there will be no legal recourse for Clubs to challenge FFP. They are essentially members of a private Club and as long as the rule-makers are not in contravention of European/National Law, they can pretty much make it up as they go along.
That will not of course stop Clubs challenging any ruling that they haven’t complied with the rules of FFP.
Over to the Accountants.
The big boys may have endorsed it. However that was before anyone really got in trouble. Also, that was before PSG or Monaco. Who else is going to go and spend silly money to “build” a team. The landscape may be quite different in a couple years. The German league is the only one that seems sheltered from the mega rich play thing model.
TTG @ 230: Monaco, the football club, is owned by a Russian billionaire so it has the wherewithal to buy top players. And because Monaco, the principality, is a tax haven, good players will come because their wages are tax-free. The French league is trying to put a stop to that.
Do I detect an outbreak of Mornington Crescent? The close season must be here…
Tabs@226: but that would make all Terraces wild.
NBN. Whatever you do, do NOT get off the train at Arnos Grove. But if you absolutely must, please (for your sake) cover your head to avoid the flying beasties.
i fear catalan may have hit the nail on the impenetrable head
what shite do i talk
.
now there’s a question
.
anyhoo
spent this late evening walkin back home
takes an hour
jar surreptitiously in a coffee cup double skinned yupppie arrangement
unfortunately i know most of the traffic
so
it will be a “what the balls were you at yesterday ya nutbollocks”
.
Indeed Ned – no flies on you Sir – but remember that Wild terraces can be overcome by the straight circular through Notting Hill Gate. Risky of course, but can yield a quick result.
Evening Cba 🙂
How you sailing Sir?
howdy indeed are you take a boatswain
i am hale and hearty
you can’t move around my house
for all the sea faring references
mind you
what fare would you charge for sea ?
A private club they may indeed be, Tabs sir, but laws have a way of changing (not that I need to tell you 😉 )and Uefa and it’s assositions have been on the wrong end of decisions in the not so distant past. Bosman is one example, another is the two foriegner rule that was in full force in the Italian league.
As for European law, I don’t believe that there is a law that restricts how much money an individual may invest in a company, to think that said company should then suffer sanctions just seems ridiculous , when looking at that rule from a pure business perspective. Surely any lawyer worth his salt could surely chalk that up to unfair treatment of his client? Free market restrictions, maybe? Afteral Europe still is a capitalist economy, right?
Again I’m no legal eagle, there’s no way I’d ever pass a bar 😉 but this looks like a rule that’s just waiting to be shot down, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that there were lawyers already on the case looking for loopholes to exploit, ready to blast it out of the sky.
As always, time will tell, in the meantime, colour me sceptical.
Cheap as chips Cba My passengers are however each given an oar on entry. They’ve gotta work for their crabs. Only fair.
Fair enough H2H. We’ll have to agree to disagree for the time being. Both Bosman and the two foreigner rule were clearly in breach of European Law – freedom of movement etc.
FFP a different kettle of fish imo 😉
isn’t heartburn rotten
ye can wank lyrical all fuckin beckettnight
but
–
must go
herself needs spuds mashed
they looked close to spud soup
but
you know what i mean
.
bernie madoff
toodle oo peaches various
Isn’t there a law that allows you to “be the best you can be” without the threat of outside interference?
THe European Steve T Amendement, if you will. 😉
Night Cba. Enjoy your spuds. I like mine smashed to a pulp 😉
H2H – Haha, there may will be 🙂
Don’t get me wrong, Tabs, I really hope it works. I just feel we’ve hitched our wagon to it in the hope that we can ride it all the way through to the moral high ground of self sustainability, while others have built up their brand by splashing the cash and I can’t see them stopping.
This summer will be massive for us as a club, we’ve made the long and arduous journey through the tunnel and we have been told that the light at the end of it is hoving into view.
I hope we’re ready to splash out on some A brand tanning lotion and a nice pair of raybans and not some crap cream from a dodgy chemist and pair of sunglasses you wouldn’t put on a donkey.
Not for Arsenal;
http://grandfinalefarm.com/images/mini_donkey_with_sunglasses.jpg
😉
NBN@245 thanks lets hope they do. Monaco while a tax haven is still governed by UEFA regulations so I presume they must ultimately conform…if anyone has to!
PROUD TO BE A GOONA.
(That is taking into account the English pronunciation of GOONER.)
Tabs@250: unless you are in Spoon. Then the Nash Convention doesn’t apply and neither Terraces nor Cresents are wild. Awkward.
Bt8b@248: always a concern with a first surface station. If you could invoke a Stockholm City Library lateral you could revert to Barons Court, but there might be a smarter alternative. Tabs?
jeez louise
me heartburn is somethin rotten
reflux
dreadful
mind you
i’m more of a pot still man
the world needs a thumper
uisce beatha anyone ?
theres two e’s in that ‘holic
extraspecially non- no – e whissik
mind you
there’s a whopper of an ancient mirror for tyrconnell
in me local
which is e – bereft
yup
we’re a fickle people
or
less romantically
do we send our thickest to work at the mirror face
mmmm
you d_cid_
Ned, I’d always heard if you were in Spoon not out the Tower Rules would put you in Tooting Bec. From there it would seem Barking follows within not only the Nash Convention but when the Howard Play is invoked. So maybe not as awkward…
Steve T @ 177, Mate I always look forward to what you have to say. Gonna miss your match day reports, now that the season has ended. You, Delia, Lars,Tabs and Zico have( all in your own way), made me feel the excitement of being a fan on game day. From the transportation woes, to what you guys drink, etc. The devil is in the details 😉
Cant stand Martin Samuel, however he gets right down to the pith of the FFP matter, and gives Platini a fairly good kicking here;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2329745/Martin-Samuel-meets-Michel-Platini–read-FULL-transcript-interview-UEFA-president.html
Killer quote to me, is;
Samuel:” When it started, I would imagine one of the people that you were looking to control would be Roman Abramovich [owner] at Chelsea, because of the idea he is financial doping. Roman Abramovich ended up on your side, on the same side as you. So if he is in favour of your regulations, is that not a clue that the regulations are actually protecting the elite, rather than solving the problem overall?”
Esso – I can’t stand Martin Samuel either, or more accurately, I can’t stand his employers. Holding my nose I took a quick look at the interview, and saw, rather to my surprise, that he did have an alternative – that only a proportion of UEFA prize money be paid directly to the competing clubs, with the remainder paid to the league of which that club is a member, to be shared between all the clubs in that league.
This is a suggestion that I, personally, find quite appealing but one it’s one that I’ve never considered before and would have to think about a lot harder before deciding whether I prefer it to the current FFP proposals.
The first two thoughts that occur to me are:
1) It’s so far away from Mr Samuel’s employers’ normal opinions that I’m surprised he’s allowed to express it in their publication; in fact I rather suspect that if it were workable or sensible they wouldn’t publish it; and
2) I’m unsure of the exact figures, but again, I rather suspect that the UEFA prize money pales into insignificance beside the amount that the financial dopers pour into their playthings.
Like many people, I am seriously sceptical as to whether FFP will be strongly enforced, and whether it will bring about the effect that I desire even if it is strongly enforced. However, until a realistic alternative emerges, it’s the only game in town so I, cautiously, support it.
We have supposedly agreed terms with Ashley Williams and are now negotiating a transfer fee with Swansea, believed to be in the 8-10 million pounds region.
What do you guys think? Does Vermaelen have a place in our starting eleven?
Oxon – the fact (as demonstrated consistently throughout the piece) that FFP is the ill conceived bastard love child of Platini and old G14 (now almost all owned by Oligarchs etc., United, Bayern and us being the few exceptions) fills me only with foreboding.
Oz, I do think that it’s the silly season and I don’t believe any word of what I read in the papers or the web regarding transfers, unless it’s stuff confirmed by clubs.
Oxon, enjoy the final tonight!
H2H @252, ” I will never pass a bar(without entering inside to sample their Guinness?)” 😉
Good morning all!
Morning all. First of all, the debate about moving, I agree with the vast majority that the move to The Grove was a no brainer. It had to happen. We could not redevelop Highbury and just needed the increased capacity to survive and compete. When I stopped playing amateur football I applied for a season ticket at Highbury. I was told that I was a week late and would get one for next year. I was placed on a waiting list and became a silver member. There I stayed, on a waiting list for some 10 years unto I got the call to The Grove. The club even issued us with a certificate. They were proud to tell me that I was number 131 on a list of 45,000.
Without the move there is no way that I would have been able to take my kids to games as I have done in recent years. That said, it saddens me that they never got to see a game at Highbury. The Grove is massively different, but it is up to us as fans to make it as close to Highbury as we can possibly can.
FFP has long been something that I have had grave reservations about. H2H and others highlight many valid points. The MS interview is also damning. The point highlighted by ESSO also tells you all you need to know. If someone like Abramovic can spend in excess of £80 in compensation to sacked managers do you not think that he is able to employ a creative team of solicitors and accountants that can find a way to circumnavigate FFP???? The fact that Platini says that it is his baby and then goes on to say that he is no financial expert tells you all you need to know in my opinion.
I really do not see FFP working at all. I can not see any club of note being expelled from European competition. It just wont happen. If it even comes close then it will constitute the first move towards an European Super League. Money talks. Money will always talk. Sadly we will have to live with that.
ABB, your kind words are always a pleasure to read and gratefully received. Thank you for your contributions. You must surely see your way to making a trip to these shores to take in a couple of games next season? The Tollie and the Grove are calling.
“To have built that stadium and maintained a place in the top four is commendable, but this summer gives us an opportunity to make a statement about where this club is going.”
apologies if you find my following comments harsh or anything but …rolling a joint on the top deck of a ship while navigating through 7-8 beaufort storms, now that is commendable.
surviving a 5 day bachelor party in ibiza is commendable.
building a stadium in the mid 2000;s, paying it all through your means, and getting 4th in the EPL with untested teenagers, against clubs who could/can spend three times what we could is not commendable. that is the work of an organised and meticulous genius. it was programmed to be this way. and there are no BUTS.
” yeah yeah its pretty nice we built one and remained in the champions league BUT…”
no, no, no that is a real bad way of putting it.
surely you who has seen a lot , you have the wisdom and understanding to realise that getting to 4th ( champions league money) while repaying our club’s infrastructure (from alpha to omega) has been priority number 1 since moving. a “but” has no place in what arsenal has been doing the last ten years.
stability and sticking to the plan has been way more important than any “adventure” for shiny metal cups…..
i know it might suck from a fan’s point of view to admit this simple concept, BUT thats the way of business and football is first and above all an industry, then anything else.
if the period of transition meant that we had to approach the subject of football strictly on financial and business terms then we as fans bite the bullet, accept it, support and move forward together as one.
lets not act like men who ve been waiting for sex for 9 months that now after all the “sacrifice” we take our dicks out and start sticking it in her ear nostrils armpits mouths, both down there etc etc
lets keep some class and perspective still.
Come on Dortmund tonight.
Grudgingly agree with you Esso. Samuel is a repugnant individual, but that is the sort of stuff he gets right.
zelico@275 – Well said; I agree with every word
esso@271 – I agree that I’m not confident that FFP will have much effect, and I said as much. However, as I also said, it’s the only game in town. When something else comes along, I’ll have a chocie as to whether I support that over and above FFP. To all those who simply write off FFP, and please forgive me for shouting, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST INSTEAD?
ollie@272 – Thanks, I intend to enjoy the match.
Can anyone give me a reason to suppor either Bayern or Dortmund this evening? As far as I’m concerned, neother of them is Arsenal, so, “meh”.
275, Good points!
275 was unadulterated drivel.
Black or white, choose your side.
Totalitarian bollocks.
There is always room for grey. There is always room for a “but”.
Measured stuff, tabs. You disagree, then?
Well, since writing 281, I’ve re-read 275 and I really can’t see what was said there to provoke such a strong response. However, I will honour tabs’ use of the trigger word “totalitarian” and desist from further comment.
Good afternoon all.
@281 – Of course I do.
As any sane person would. As any person who has been going to Arsenal for any length of time would.
Any argument that refuses to recognise that some things might have been done better is as vacuous as those arguments that refuse to recognise what, on the whole, has been a job well done by Arsenal in trying circumstances.
Both extremes try to shut down debate (see above). Any mild deviation from their pre-set agendas is shot down as heresy, and polemic and hysterical rants replace intelligent and nuanced debate.
And I for one am utterly sick of it.
“There is no room for a but” What … the … fuck!
Measured? Given the circumstances, yes it was.
S’funny tabs, but when I read 275 my first thought was FG.
The Taliban is alive and well…..
Indeed Dr Z.
tabs, I know Wolfie always thinks there is place for a butt! Kidding aside I agree with you. Building the stadium was a massive achievement but there have also been mistakes made down the line (like the too level wage structure, for example) and even Arsene himself has said as much. No one is perfect, and there is no harm in admitting that we don’t get everything right even if the absolute majority of what the clubs does is more or less spot on.
abb, thanks for the kind words!
As for FFP, I think it will have some effect – I just don’t know what yet. Mind you, it has already started to impact things, Malaga are on a four-year suspended sentence where they will not be allowed into the CL or EL for the next four years if they qualify (though if they qualify more than once in that period they are allowed back in again the second time, I think). And regarding what I would want to see as an alternative, well I have said many times that I think a limit on squad sizes is the one thing that has a proper chance of levelling the playing field somewhat. 25 senior players in a squad, and if you have 25 players under contract you must *sell* a player before buying a new one. If an under-21 player grows too old and you want to keep him and already have 25 players, well tough titties – sell one of the existing ones or let the young one go. Also, ban loans for players who no longer qualify as U21 and do not allow clubs to subsidise wages for players at other clubs like Man City are allegedly doing with Adebarndoor.
And on another note, let us finish this drink with a little upbeat tune:
Lord Sugar, Who-o-o-o
Lord Sugar, Who-o-o-o
It was a lot of fun
When you said “hey, one-one!”
tabs knows.
’twas genius to steer us through the challenge of building a stadium and to keep us in the top 4, but like anything even that could have been done better.
old Spanish proverb (allegedly): there is no chin that once shaved, cannot be shaved closer.
I get your point TaBS, there is always room for a grey area, BUT when that ‘but’ is said in such a way that it demeans or belittles the other side of the argument that is crossing the line, surely?
Heh Lars at the Wolfie thing, and as per norm, I agree with nearly all of what you say.
Like you, I too think that the present day loan system has evolved in such a way as to be a huge detriment to how Clubs operate.
The one slight thing where I would depart from you is that Clubs cannot be forced to “sell” a player under contract. That is unworkable if the player decides to sit tight. Agree however that a limit on squad sizes would work. The out-of-favour player would then be forced to make a choice between either having his huge salary and not playing, or going somewhere else to play on a lesser pay packet.
Such a system would perhaps encourage the Oil rich Clubs not to pay salaries so out of kilter with market rate (for fear of having an unusable expense on their books without being able to recoup anything), and the player would also have to more widely consider the ramifications of his career when considering any move rather than just seeing pound signs.
And heh at the Sugar song. 🙂
Why not a total squad salary cap rather than a total squad size limit? Then you introduce the conundrum:
“do I buy 4 superexpensive stars and 7 cheap numpties or do I build a socialist republic squad of average players? ”
Oh!
tabs@289, agreeing with Lars. I would certainly support a move to ban player loans. Would it be workable?
I still agree with what I read in 281. I don’t agree with what I think you say you read in 281 (sorry that’s somewhat convoluted; I think it expresses accurately what I mean).
I have a vague memory of a sketch with John Cleese more and more shrilly screaming “If there’s one thing I absolutely cannot stand, it’s intolerance”. (Apologies for emerging from purdah.)
Cheers Bath.
Cent, I don’t really understand your point. I am equally dismissive of both extremes. They are both censorious and they are both dictatorial. A “but” of itself is never demeaning or belittling. What follows the “but” might be, whether it be abuse of Arsene from one side or abuse of other fans from the other. The “but” is never the problem.
The “but” which the writer at 275 had such a problem with was taken from a well balanced piece from ‘H which quite reasonably acknowledged the achievements of the last several years BUT also asked the Club to now push on.
What on earth was wrong with that?
I absolutely agree to banning loans for players over the age of 21.
Lars, I think that ban was revised down from 4 to 2 (1 suspended) last week (re: Malaga)
My bad TaBS, I didn’t consider it from that angle.
-though reading back I simply don’t understand what you put into brackets in the context of what’s just before. Too clever for me.
Sorry Oxon but I know what I read.
The quote speaks for itself.
“it was programmed to be this way. and there are no BUTS.” Utter utter drivel.
And I absolutely (and in a totalitarian way) agree with John Cleese, (even though I think he is ,for the most part, a cunt!) 😉
Pre-assist…
Assist
Goalllllaaazzooooooooo
Thanks for that assist TaBS!
Well in Cent, one-two bang.
Minimum backlift! 😉
It’s got everything innit?
Centabs!
Haha.
Cheers Ollie!
Ollie, that had escaped my attention, cheers for the update. And I am an excessive user of brackets…
tabs: “The one slight thing where I would depart from you is that Clubs cannot be forced to “sell” a player under contract. That is unworkable if the player decides to sit tight.”
…which is exactly what I would want it to do. Man City want to buy Neymar but their squad is full and none of them will move? Tough luck, he’ll have to go somewhere else then. This would, I believe, drive wages down considerably and level the playing field because clubs can’t hoard players and not give a flying about those who they don’t want.
Oh, didn’t notice how close to the goal we were – well in, Cent!
Fair point Lars, hadn’t thought of it like that.
Wouldn’t it just result in one year contracts though?
Maybe it would, but then again you would run the risk of losing a player that you want to keep and get no money for him so would clubs want to sign too many short-term contracts? Not sure they would.
I do, however, see one risk with my idea now that you mention the one-year contracts. It could result in shitloads of ridiculously expensive short-term contracts so the big clubs still pay a lot of money but just swap players around every year which would not be good at all. Club loyalty could potentially go out of the window even more than now.
Hmm, maybe solving all the problems of modern football in one fell swoop isn’t that easy after all 🙂
Haha tricky I agree 🙂
I do think there would be a lot shorter contracts and thus more movement in your scenario, and also a lot more money going out of the game (wages, agent’s fees etc.
I’d stick with the halfway house. Clubs can stockpile as many players as they want but can only play a set and agreed number in any one season.
It would at least stop the likes of Adebayor both having his cake and eating it – ie still earning Man City money AND still playing football (after a fashion!)
Tabs, Lars, Oxon,
Good stuff above, on a quickish back drink.
Might as well just have one year contracts really. As soon as a player says he wants to go, it seems he goes.
Clubs fear dressing room disruption, lack of effort from disaffected players and, above all, loss of revenue if they are nearing the end of their deal.
Fabregas walked after three of his eight years and had wanted to go a year before that. We didn’t get anything like a true Fabregas over the last twelve months of his stay, as had already happened with even Thierry Henry.
And would that Chamakh, Bendtner, Arshavin, Squillaci …. Need I go on… Oh, okay then …. Park, Denilson, Mannone, Fabianski ….. Only been on 12 month deals, we could have saved ourselves £15,000,000 million a year in wages and got some proper players in.
Also, with only one year contracts, there would be huge potential instability, but the mega transfer fees we see today wiuld be gone too.
So, which side of the fence do the swings and roundabouts come down on.
Mick Smetaphor.
I like bath’s idea of total squad spend. You can then shake it up whichever way you like but the advantages of the super rich are negated.
Lars,
“Players could become even less loyal”.
Now you really are stretching the imagination. 😉
By the way, there is absolutely no way that PSG will be punished by UEFA, ‘cos Platini’s son works for them.
By extension, those behaving similarly will also be let off.
Bath – Total squad salary cap? Not so sure. Would it be right that say Arsenal can only pay as much as say Hull, given that Arsenal took a giant risk to build a new stadium to generate more income? Do you set the salary cap with reference to Man Utd’s income or that of Cardiff? How would it be policed? Would it be enforceable across National borders, and if not, would that lead to an exodus of talent?
Questions, questions. I certainly don’t have the answers.
Trev @314 – You old cynic 😉
Trev
Totally agree with your assessment of Fabregas’ departure. Which is why he is a cunt for evermore to me, who I would never welcome back.
283takeabowson
well, put it this way. speculating and fantasising about what might have been or what better decissions could be taken is of course an area for debate but there is also a limit to the crap one has to tolerate just cause some feel they have the right to freely critisise everyone and everything as strictly as a nazi.
lets be honest…..its just “talk” really. yet this “talk” , as seen, can damage the club. both in terms of our players psychology as well as allowing media and other enemies to creep in and cause division and tensions.
i appreciate your right to correct wenger in how to run football clubs in the 21st century, but kindly keep your “notes” for another time…like when we dont have 450m stadiums to pay back and such.
nobody is perfect and we all recognise a few mistakes here and there, we arent blind. what i can do though is “look away” at all them mistakes instead of highlighting them as if im some genius who knows better, and ill do it kos i luv arsenal
when you think that business-wise the brand name and value of the club has doubled or even tripled at a period of sacrifice/transition without winning any shiny metal things…
when you realise that the manager has actually kept the club at a world class level which isnt normal when you look at the overall experience of the team for the past 7 years all the while funding his own transfer budgets….
then you wisely shut up a bit and say thank you for once instead of nagging all the time. not you specifically, i hope you get the point.
this constant need for some for debating the rights or wrongs of wenger;s and arsenal’s most challenging period gives me the impression that people are either too lazy or too evil. or maybe they have everything else sorted in their lives in the highest standards possible hence the need to critisise one of the few football clubs that stands out as genuinely special.
Zelico
Let me say this as someone who absolutely agrees that what Wenger has done these last 8 years is nothing short of remarkable: he made some really odd decisions that I will never understand and which were proven wrong.
The socialist wage structure, persisting with Almunia, the great defensive midfielder exodus of 2006/2007, various bizarre substitutions, etc.
I genuinely believe that Wenger is in the top three football managers who ever lived. No one else can boast of having built double winning teams and gone whole seasons unbeaten, and also of having nursed a club along on a tiny transfer budget and kept them gravity-defyingly competitive.
But he’s human. He makes mistakes. And it’s important that people be able to point them out, otherwise why discuss football at all?
That doesn’t mean calling him a c**t. It doesn’t mean spinning everything he does as negative and demanding he leave. It just means taking a balanced view and calling it as you see it. Nothing wrong with that at all.
You’ll find that this place genuinely gets the balance right.
For those discussing Cesc, I’d have him back in a heartbeat, and that’s not something I’d say of any of the other big players we lost. My memory of his final season was that it was dogged by injury, but I never got the sense he was giving us less than his all and I never heard any suggest as much at the time. From what I gather there was some shitty behaviour the summer he departed, and I can understand why that might stick in the throat, but I thought he busted himself out on the pitch and was clearly desperate to win something with us.
It all seems such a long time ago now, mind. Bizarre, given it was only two and a bit years back – I guess that’s a reflection of how much has happened since.
Finally; come on Dortmund!
@317/318
What “crap”? Where is this “crap” that you’re banging on about?
Holic acknowledged that moving to the new stadium and keeping us top four is a great achievement, BUT also recognised that for the last 2 years it has been a bit of a tight squeeze and that the money that is now available should now be released. Is that “crap”?
“The talk can damage the players”
What utter piffle. The Internet is the Internet, and in the broad scheme of things, matters not a jot. It influences fuck all. The only thing that matters, as far as the players are concerned, is the atmosphere in the ground, and from where I sit, the atmosphere has remained broadly supportive. Off hand, I can only think of two occasions where it’s threatened to get out of hand – the Villa game at the end of 10-11 when the price rises were announced, and the Man Utd game in 11-12.
People use the Internet to express their opinions. It’s what people do when they’re passionate about something. Apart from the trolls, people seek out sites that broadly agree and reinforce their own opinions. The huge majority seek out sites that are supportive yet prepared to engage in debate (Goonerholic, Arseblog, ACLF et al). Those that want to spend all day every day calling Arsene a cunt go to the Grove. Those that won’t even tolerate any sort of implied criticism go to PositivelyArsenal or that other ridiculous site that blames all our recent woes on corrupt refereeing. The vast majority, even in this internet age, still don’t go anywhere at all. I suggest you follow their lead, if you’re not prepared to allow a “but” in any of your analysis, or at least find a site that is equally totalitarian.
If you knew anything about this site, then you’d know what I think of Arsene Wenger. Until you’re a bit more up to speed, I suggest you shut the fuck up. Just for the record I think he is a magnificent Manager.
As for how to support my Club, I’ll be sure to give you a shout when I think I’ve forgotten. After 40 years of popping down to Highbury and now the Ems, I now realise that what I’ve lacked all these years is your spectacularly articulate life lessons.
Give me fucking strength.
That’s reassuring. I thought I was on my own in not wanting Fabregas back. Barca DNA?????? Don’t fall for it. He thought the grass was greener and jumped ship.
n7 gooner. i agree, we know he is human and we know he makes mistakes. everyone does. however i dont think its fair to scrutinise his decissions as if i or you or anyone else knows better or could have made a better decission at the time. especially those of us who frequent the internet. if we were as good at our jobs as wenger is at his we wouldnt have time for the internet.
there is a saying. those who cant do, teach, and those who cant do either, critisise.
====
tabs relax i didnt say goonerholic was talking crap…i talked generally about people giving shit to the club for not winning titles or targeting them at period where stability and finances were more important.
and disguising it as ” oh good we did it now lets go for trophies” is a bit disrespectful too for it doesnt show true acknowledgement of how difficult this whole operation was.
if the internet does not matter one jot then why do you want to debate then? to kill time? so you are lazy then.
it is not my fault we live at times where rumours become “truth” and that trolls professional ( journalists) or otherwise would seek to increase the pressure on our club for things which are insignificant yet trying to make a big story out of it.
this new fashion of thinking that we can judge or doubt the work of professionals from the internet is what is really laughable. you then get people marching and booing and creating an atmosphere to be embarrassed of rather than be proud of.
as for telling me that people use the internet to express opinions, i will tell you that people use toilets too to discharge unwanted “weight”…the difference is that the weight gets flushed while the opinions come to the surface and stink the whole place….
plus my friend, i know when to apply a but and when not. applying a but when i know already that the club had to sacrifice titles and adventures with trophies for the long term benefit of the club would make me a not so good supporter/fan.
and believe you me ..if you feel angry or frustrated for getting so close to winning titles (even under such restrictions/limitations) and not getting them on matters of details then imagine how the manager feels or has felt during these past 7 years…..
are you going to tell me that you care more than him now? he is there 24hrs a day 365 ..he has had sleepless nights tryign to figure out SOLUTIONS while you me and the rest switch on during matchdays.
for him its his job for us its leisure…dont confuse our roles.
and if you feel that the internet is the arena to critisise then lets see you critisisng your government for matters that really affect your lives in many ways rather than having arguements and fits and debates over whether wenger should have got this player or that player.
context and perspective.
its football as you say…yet you want to scrutinise/argue/debate the decissions of a football club that was going through its biggest transition in its history under a black and white prism of whether it was winning titles or not.
zelico. Please don’t make my head spin…
That’s too much sense all at once. 🙂
Ah, the Greek Andy Goram is back.
Same style though 😉
Zelico
Simple suggestion to cut through this whole discussion:
Go to Le Grove. Spend an hour reading a random assortment of posts from across the last five years. Then come back.
If you still feel people here are being over-critical then there’ll be a drink waiting for you on my tab.
Plenty of other more interesting discussions to be had rather than splitting hairs about whether any of us think we could have done a better job or are better informed than Wenger (and by the way, I don’t think even the maddest troll on here would claim that).
Steve T – re: the Barca DNA, I think it’s about time someone got Cesc on Jeremy Kyle and gave him a proper paternity test.
heh sorry dude but someone has to do it or else we will end up having the loonies taking over the asylum
them freedom fighters who want to correct wenger on the grounds of exercising democratic rights. such a loveable bunch. wonderful people
the arrogance hypocrisy and hilarity of it all gets missed along the way.
we do live in satirical times. no doubt about that.
Zelico, I think you’re admonishing the wrong set of supporters.
TaBS, I think what we’re seeing from Zelico is a result of anger that has piled up for a while now, shame he let it out on the wrong people.
n7 i aint talking about people here. that place is an embarrassment. i refer to those who say “yes, BUT”
those who should know better and act wiser instead of joining the bandwagon.
this overzealous desire to win trophies is sickening. we end up holding our club at gunpoint for not providing them moments to the “people”. media have field days on us because of that “sheep” mentality.
is that the point of arsenal? i thought it was something much more.
Ah, suspected that was who it was, ‘holic.
In other news, some military guy got his throat slit (but not lethally) by some cunt in the business district of Paris.
I suppose the cunt got his inspiration from the Woolwich cunts.
i think some are getting the wrong idea. i aint having a go at anyone personally in particular or even here but the overall sentiment amongst supporters that ” pheeww ok we waited..now spend the fucking money”
they dont owe anything to us. we havent signed any contracts with them with warranties and guarantees that by year so and so they will deliver titles x and y
titles/trophies are the fruition of your working philosophy and preparation. if the sytsem works well it will deliver titles. it has done so in the past, so dont worry. arsenal’s system has been programmed/designed by the steven jobs of football managers.
you are all projecting what you would personally like to see the club doing irrespective of whether the club in the real world can be that or do the things YOU want.
i understand it but i will call it out as “lazy talk” in the end of the day cause thats what it is. killing time on the internet…..
debating about the faults of the system isnt right either cause the system was and still is a work in progress.
and if we want to get technical we will also need to seperate the faults arising from internal factors and those arising from external factors.
thats what balanced view means.
No worries mate.
Your style is a tad aggressive compared to others here.
Might be worth working on before we are all calling each other all sorts of names. 😉
“tabs relax i didnt say goonerholic was talking crap…i talked generally about people giving shit to the club …”
No you weren’t. Your original post plucked a Holic quote out of context and slaughtered it for containing a “but” (and a wholly reasonable “but” too). All my subsequent comments were aimed at that self’evident piece of nonsense.
if the internet does not matter one jot then why do you want to debate then?
Because I am passionate about Arsenal, because I enjoy talking about Arsenal with like-minded souls, and because, whilst I do have other interests, when push comes to shove, I’d rather talk Arsenal than anything else. I am however under no illusions that my words carry any weight, influence, or meaning beyond having a chat with a few mates. I’m afraid I lack your natural solipsism in that regard.
this new fashion of thinking that we can judge or doubt the work of professionals from the internet is what is really laughable.
One, it is not “new”. Two, professionals in every sphere are held to account all the time and so they should be. Three, to have an opinion is what makes the world go round and Four, a World in which Professionals cannot be questioned merely by dint of being a “professional” would be a very dull and dare I say dangerous world to live.
“as for telling me that people use the internet to express opinions, i will tell you that people use toilets too to discharge unwanted “weight”…the difference is that the weight gets flushed while the opinions come to the surface and stink the whole place….
I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about other than to say it is a shit analogy.
“plus my friend, i know when to apply a but and when not. applying a but when i know already that the club had to sacrifice titles and adventures with trophies for the long term benefit of the club would make me a not so good supporter/fan.
You clearly have no idea when a “but” might be applied, as your initial post showed. Only the foolhardy would doubt that the recent curb in spending has been for the long term good of the Club, BUT as so many have already pointed out to you, certain elements might have been managed differently. You are of course welcome to your unquestioning credulity, but please allow more inquiring minds the dignity of expression.
“are you going to tell me that you care more than him now?”
Nope. Never have done. Never will. I know it’s difficult but please do try and keep to the point please.
“dont confuse our (sic) roles.
I’m not. Stop making things up.
“and if you feel that the internet is the arena to critisise then lets see you critisisng your government for matters that really affect your lives in many ways rather than having arguements and fits and debates over whether wenger should have got this player or that player.
I do, frequently, not that it’s any of your business. But guess what, this is a Football blog, and more specifically an Arsenal blog, so heh ho we come here to talk football and more specifically Arsenal. Astonishing I know, but please try to get to grips with that notion.
“context and perspective.”
Exactly. Please try and find some.
“its football as you say…yet you want to scrutinise/argue/debate the decissions of a football club that was going through its biggest transition in its history under a black and white prism of whether it was winning titles or not.”
No I don’t. Again, stop making things up. Jog on Junior.
Oh sorry, hadn’t refreshed.
If I’d known it was that madman, I would have given up a long time ago.
Funny, I thought opinions kept the world static right in the centre of the universe, long enough!
1)you slaughter the clubs decission making policy for not winning titles during a stadium transition and you take offence when i “slaughtered” the “yes, but” mentality ? funny that….
2)perhaps your passion blinds you some times, ever thought of that. and since you agree that your debates/opinions ( however you want to call it) has no bearing on the outcome then maybe you need to have your head checked. are you knowingly yapping on about things you cant influence ?
3) of course its new. i dont remember so many “experts” going public as frequently when the internet wasnt around to bring everything to your face. as for judging professionals again its about context and perspective. youre acting as if wenger is a professional whose integrity and ability is in doubt or that his ethics/morals arent at place. as if he is some “professional lawyer” bailing criminals out or some “professional politician” who invents casius belis. wengers line of job /profession is an area where such scrutiny and critique is not even remotely necessary.
4) you said that the internet is there for you and others to exchange opinions and i said that toilets are there too to take a shit. i paralleled opinions coming out your or others minds to the turds coming out my and others buttholes. was it that difficult for you to grasp ? the difference was that while my turds get flushed away, your and others opinions polutte infest and stink the place, and that place happens to be Arsenal football club for which i have a passion too, just like you 😉
5) i do buddy, maybe i have better understanding of the game and the financial difficulties than you ? do you exclude such a possibility? thats why i can tell you that the past 7 years wasnt a time for you or anyone to go ” yes, but” on arsenal.
6) well stop pretending that you do then or that you can even bring yourself to talk about it in the seriousness and levels he approaches it.
7) football blogs and particular arsenal blogs…i thought are created to gather and rally support for the club. not become deluded judges or cafeterias for you and others to fart opinions out all day like lazy fuckers…
p.s your need to call me junior shows that you aint interested in arsenal one bit…only your “democratic right” to say whatever the hell you want without any sense of accountability or responsibility let alone your complete lack of knowledge or expertise on the subject…ok junior?
I know you go on and on and on and on and on, your shitty little reputation precedes you I’m afraid, God knows why my mate George tolerates you, I think he finds you vaguely amusing, so one final go, then I’m off to to do something a bit more interesting.
To use your numbering…
1. No I didn’t. Stop making things up. Where? When? Find me one quote where I have slaughtered the Club’s failure to win a trophy. You can’t, because it’s not there.
2. Yes. As is everbody. As are YOU. Heard of irony?
3. Making things up really is a problem for you isn’t it. What are you talking about? Laughable. Really pissing myself. Professionals are held to account for their decisions, not just their integrity.
4. Still a shit analogy whichever way you wish to call it, and however many times you wish to repeat it. Handy hint – it doesn’t improve in the retelling. You have no idea of my opinions and yet you keep telling me what i think. Ok Obersturmfuhrer.
5. Oh absolutely. My understanding of both football and finance is infinitely superior to yours. I know that’s not setting the bar very high but hey ho.
6. I don’t. Moron.
Jog on Shortpants.
Zelico,
I am intrigued by your comment that you have a deeoer understanding of the truth about Arsenal’s finances than TABS.
TABS is an extremely even handed and balanced guy who loves the club and occasionally points out deficiencies that ought to be remedied.
I would be slightly more critical of Wenger than him simply because I will watch a huge amount of wasted money going out of the door as we try to unload Denilson,Bendtner and hopefully Gervinho and watch Arshavin and Sqillaci walk away having scarcely kicked a ball in anger last year.Not terribly helpful given the financial constra
Is Wenger a great manager?-yes
Does he make mistakes?-yes,he is human and sometimes bloody obstinate but often his obstinacy enables him not to swivel in the wind as weaker men would.
But while he does make mistakes good fans and lovers of the club reserve the right to point this out in a spirit of friendliness and humour.That is the beauty of this site.
While Wenger fails to get 10/10 for his efforts (and I gave him that between 1998-2004) I will comment. He is on about 8 at the moment which is very good but not perfect. Most readers and drinkers here would probably vary from 6.5 to 9 but very few would suggest he hasn’t made mistakes.
COME
ON
YOU
YELLOWS
TTG @ 339
Spot on. The whole lot of it.
Some game.
I am getting a run for my punt on Dortmund at 4/1.
GO
DORTMUND
WOW.. havent been back drinking yet.. but WHAT A MATCH.. the best champs league final in a long time… proper football being played both teams with the right intent!!
OH MY GOD !! SUBOTIC !!!
bayern define tabs’ phrase ‘utter cunts’.
Lewandowski, Hummels, Reus???????
Yes please. Very much yes please.
what Steve said + Weidenfeller
…… And Gundogan.
Ivan, Stanley. Time to make an appt with the bank manager.
Fuck..Robben..fuck fuck fuck
One year too late Robben, you pillock.
wot Charlie said.
thats heartbreaking for dortmund. 🙁
They didn’t do enough, frankly.
Still, we only lost to them on away goals!
That’s my line, and I’m sticking to it.
wot Charlie said II
Whatever you think of him, Robben played well. We could do a lot worse.
No matter how well he played, Robben’s on my eternal shitlist after last season’s final.
Charlie. We did not lose. We drew. As a result of the draw unfortunately we went out on the away goals rule.
Great game, really feel for Dortmund.
Before tonight I’d have said break the bank for Hummels, but having watched the Dortmund centre backs fail all night to deal with high balls I’m now not so sure.
Gundogan, though: PLAYER.
Go on Arsene.
Gundogan was very impressive.
N7. Are you sure?????? I thought Hummels was excellent.
In fact there are very few that I have seen play tonight that i would not want to see in an Arsenal shirt. We could do a lot worse.
Always looks a very good defender and has great feet, but did a couple of odd things tonight he was fortunate to get away with + there appeared to be panic every time a cross came in.
He’s better than what we have, but he’d cost a packet.
Hummels and Subotic are both fantastic players, but look at the winner: how is Ribery allowed to kill a long ball on the edge of the box like that?
Btw – obviously I’m being very critical here. He’s a great player. I’m just not sure that defence is Dortmund’s best quality.
If I could only have two of them I’d take Reus and Gundogan.
I take your point but I would take either or both in a heartbeat. They could have done better but sometimes you have to give credit to the attacker.
I thought it was a quality game of football tonight. Sadly very enjoyable to watch.
I’d take either centre back, but not for £30m. And that’s probably what they’d cost given they’re both only 24.
Cracking game. Really sad outcome, not least because it denied us another half hour!
Dortmund needed to make their dominance in the first 30 mins count. Always up against it after that.
Fuck Radio 5, trotting out the usual crap that our second leg win over Bayern only happened because in their eyes Bayern had already won the tie in the first leg (and so were slacking off). I do wonder if people would have written off that result so readily if any other English club had done it.
Charlie, if it had been Totnum they would probably have been proclaimed runners up in the whole tournament.
Yes, to a certain extent we were helped by them just wanting to get the match overwith, but in the 53 games they have played this season only one team – I repeat, only one team – has managed to keep a clean sheet v Bayern. Would we have won 2-0 if it had been 0-0 on aggregate at the start of the game? Probably not. But to dismiss what we did with “well, they were only playing it safe” is just plain wrong in my opinion.
What our team needs is probably Lewandoski but I’d take Ilkay Gundogan if it was up to me.
Gundogan would be a tremendous addition. Arsene was apparently waxing lyrical about him whilst commentating on French TV.
they can sodding buy him. No more pissing about with loans for players we have no use for, because loans just give you the problem a year later of having the same player dossing about but a year nearer a free. If they want him they should buy him.
If we could take just one player from that game is would be Reus. He has the stamp of Arsenal all over his play and, heck, he even looks like Dennis Bergkamp!
Interesting debate earlier regarding the lack of trophies. The reason seems simple enough to me. We’re in a transitional period with the new stadium development limiting the money available to build a team to compete on a level playing field with bigger-spending clubs coinciding with other clubs which were no real competition previously now enjoying unprecedented budgets courtesy of oligarabs = more competition with more money to spend. We’ve also been unlucky. We would probably have won the CL in ’06 if we hadn’t played three-quarters of the game with ten men, and we certainly should have beaten Birmingham in the Carling but for a moment of madness. Plus no luck on a couple of other occasions.
Frustrating, but our financial circumstances will change in time, along with our luck.
Some of you younger guys need to learn a little patience. Imagine what it must have been like to be Chelsea or ManC supporters prior to the present decade! And do we really want to be like them and have success purchased for us along with our souls? Sadly I fear some of you do.
Oskar
In my opinion it says a lot about the club and its financial and football management that Arsenal have remained top 4 competitive during this period, while still appearing regularly in the CL with results often as good or better than the new big money clubs.
Oskar
Apparently Neymar is off to Barcelona.
Wasn’t he off to Bayern just few weeks ago Cent? Also looked like done deal back then.
Confirmed that Neymar will sign on Monday for Barca. I wonder what poor old Cesc thinks of that? It will be one less attacking role available and I don’t see Cesc as a holding player or a winger???
Latest story about poor old Cesc is Moyes is going to launch a £25m bid for him. Makes sense in a lot of ways. Those cunts need a proper midfielder.
Bloody long transitional period Oskar. I agree with you re Reus. He looks a great player. Gundogan also looked tailor made for us. Lewandowski off to Bayern according to Arsene.
All the talk at the moment is just paper talk. No doubt that if you throw enough names into the hat that you will get one right eventually. I think it is just wait and see time. Time to hope that those at board level may have finally learned their lesson. I don’t want to sound cynical but I have heard all of this “we are in the market etc” stuff for many years now when very little has really happened. We all remember the “we’ve identified our targets” and “I’m going to the Euros with my cheque book” lines from the club.
The general talk is that most think we have £70 million to spend on targets. I have no idea how these figures are arrived at but £70 million is not far short from the money we received from selling Cesc and RVP so I would hope that is the minimum available.
Welcome to the silly season everyone.
Esso. Lots of stories linking Moyes with Fellaini. That makes sense as well. Cesc may well be considered as a replacement for Scholes. Still, as long as his heart is still at Arsenal??????
We were supposed to have ‘first option’ on Cesc written into the cut-price sale contract.
Happy birthday to a top, top Gooner.
Have a great one Esso.
Many happy returns Esso. Enjoy the day.
This would have been a great day for a TaBS piece on 260589 😉
…and many happy ones to young Tim Stillman too. A proper writer, not someone who scribbles like what I does.
i know i shouldnt really bother with the likes of you tabs, your kind seeks confrontation when none are there but ill give it a shot
i came here saying that applying a but in what arsenal has been doing the last ten years smacks of arrogance and ingratitude for it dont really recognise or ackowledge the tremendous difficulties of moving grounds in the age of sky and russians and opec in the epl in the 21st century.
you came in like some sheriff all guns blazing being rude and dismissive as if you are the president of arsenal fans worldwide or as if you have studied football and finance next to cruyff and kenyon.
here are your replies to me check them out
280 – drivel , totalitarian bollocks
320 – he is a cunt
334 – ok junior…
338 – here you went off like some nasa misile…funny how you talk about drivel earlier
not once have i offended you or the creator of the site..you the one acting like a cowboy. 4 people didnt find any problems with it or how i expressed it, but alas there will always be someone like you to intentionally misinterpret and cause a storm in a tea cup….
i can also talk like that to you but i have a feeling you will start crying to holic in typical hypocritical fashion.
not aggreing with my points is one thing….but your behaviour is disgusting and kindly dont ever refer to me in such ways , you dont know me and i dont know you….better that way. thank you son.
Only one person came in here with an aggressive attitude friend. You have been told before.
Goodbye.
24 years ago today…
Happy 26th May!
Cheers for the good wishes folks. Dropping the little ‘un off at his Mum’s shortly. Then there’s seat at the bar in The Swan with my name on it!
On it’s way ‘Holic 😉
Seriously, should be with you this evening.
And a very Happy Birthday Esso. Have a good one mate.
Happy birthday Esso! Many happy returns.
Re: transfers, I’m hearing neymar to Barca (what on earth are they thinking?), Lewandowski to Bayern, Falcao to Monaco. City are apparently trying for Cavani.
That pretty much wraps up the expected tier 1 transfer activity (I.e the players we can’t get). I hope to god that we do spend some money this summer because, as I’ve been saying for months now, there’s not a lot of point in continually finishing 4th if it doesn’t eventually lead to some improvements to the team. I’ve been perfectly happy to remain patient while we moved towards the promised land, but if the promised land evaporates (and I believe it was supposed to hove into view this summer, next summer latest) then I think some serious questions need to be asked.
I’m not demanding that we break the bank this summer or buy £30m players. But I am hoping that our net transfer spend exceeds zero, because I do not understand how the club can remain competitive long term on that sort of a budget. Even Arsene will retire eventually.
As for who we sign, I am happy to trust the manager, but I would hope that the money would be spent on a long term Arteta replacement (not getting any younger) and players who can make the difference going forward, as that’s the main area we still sometimes seem to struggle with.
Plenty of summer to go, so no need for anxiety just yet. I know we’ve been mislead in the past but I genuinely believe this year will be a little different.
Oh, and apparently Dortmund trained at London Colney this week. I do hope someone took the time to walk Klopp round and give him the “some day, all this will be yours” speech as I think he would make an excellent Arsenal manager when the time is right.
COYG
Everybody looking forward to it now TaBS.
No pressure 😉
Happy Birthday Esso.
Great things happened on May 26th.
Terrible things too, 20 years ago.
aggressive? like where? did i call anyone names like your boy tabs did? did you find anything i typed insulting? show me please.
anyway enjoy your birthdays….
Your blog is at least readable and funny. I find most blog writers somewhat lacking in both of the above and “clever” writers who try to impress with a wide vocabulary do nothing for me.
Reading your material is like sitting in a favourite armchair in front of a roaring fire on a winter evening, favourite tipple in hand, dog warming your feet and feeling content in the moment.
Most “modern” football writing is like having an ice pole shoved up your arse for me. On a winter’s evening without the benefit of a single bar on the fire to take the chill off.
Gawd bless ya guvnor etc.
N7. This year HAS to be different. Excellent stuff though. I agree with all of that.
One day, AW to move upstairs and Klopp to come in????? I can think of a lot of worse options.
I hope you are not holding out for TaBs holic. He is about as reliable as the Arsenal board.
😀
All the best Esso, must have been a stonker of a birthday in ’89.
you got tabs here completely missing the point and acting like he got it all and correcting us too you see….
there is a choice. you can choose to grill the club and doubt the policy and highlight mistakes or you can chose to accept it all as part of the sacrifices we had to do as a club to get us through our transition.
tabs then claims that choosing to grill the club and doubt and question and critisise is part of his democratic right to freely express his opinion.
so if i get this right… fans of arsenal chose to intentionally behave like dicks towards their own club on the premise of freedom of speech ?
thats what it is. choosing to doubt and question and cirtisise a club that YOU ALL know was going to go through a period of sacrifice and would keep a low profile for a while.
there is no excuse for that. you cant claim you didnt know what was on the menu. you cant claim you werent warned. and if you thought that building stadiums such as the one we have and winning titles is something that can be done in the epl of 2013 against united chelsea and city then maybe people like tabs need to re-calibrate their ambitions and expectations. ….
those clubs had only the titles to focus on. this wasnt the case for us. a true fan acknowledges that without throwing tantrums and acting as if arsenal is some real madrid where it is unacceptable to go 6 or 7 or 8 or even 10 years without a title. history shows us this club has gone for longer periods with nothing to show for it. without stadiums to repay, or distorted markets…… were people like tabs complaining as much back then too? i doubt it….
Boom?
then he talks about black and white fascist concepts when he is the one who intentionally chooses to grade arsenal on whether titles have been won or not, in a period of a massive transition.
” what could we have done better”
well tabs … i trust the people who are there you see. they havent shown me anything that would suggest they are taking the mickey out of me or any other fan to provoke any kind of interrogation attitude towards them.
even if the people who are there made mistakes, i accept it, but i wont critisise as if i know better or would have done better had i been in their place.
do you have a problem letting go? do you have a problem relaxing in the knowledge that the club is taken care of by people who know what they are doing? do you not trust that wenger is doing the best he can for the club?
is that too much for you to handle you need to balance it out with your “freedom to critisise” ?
Zelico
Describing tabs as someone who bitches and moans and isn’t behind the club and the manager suggests you have absolutely no idea as to what his views actually are.
Still, it makes a nice change to people coming on here and slagging us all off for being too positive.
Tabs u get my vote for president of the fans all day long. 😉
Happy birthday Esso and Tim.
As observed above, that must have been one hell of a birthday bash in ’89. Surprised you recovered.
and well in Ollie.
If you are going to play centre-forward, you need to be more confident and lose the question mark. 🙂
Last time.
Stop provoking a response and then crying when you get called out.
Debate with respect, without abuse, or go somewhere that will continue to tolerate your provocation.
n7 neither does he know anything yet i dont see people calling him out for his rotten behaviour. i never called anyone any names. i explained the logic behind what arsenal has been doing and how the logic of critisising and essentially complaining is wrong. all ive seen him say back is that ” hey im allowed to say whatever i want, its a free world i have my opinion”
and i didnt deny his right to an opinion either. some want to critisise wenger and the club and others want to critisise those who think they can critisise the club.
surely if he can freely critise wenger and the club then i can also critisise his or any other’s opinion, no?
people like tabs want the whole cake and to eat it too. they want to freely critisise the club but law and behold if a fellow fan critisises them back and their behaviours.
does he really think that because he critisises he is a better or more of a fan than others like me who patiently and silently have accepted that the first ten years of moving grounds was not a period to moan about titles ?
am i any less of a fan for showing understanding and being patient in what wenger and the club have been trying to build?
am i mug then for believing and trusting in the methods of the manager who brought this club 2 doubles an unbeaten season and its only ever appearance in a champions league final? plus a world class stadium and facilities?
is that too much for people like tabs? to show faith and support to those who do nothing but good for our club and who deserve it?
what is it in tabs mind which makes him think that its ok to doubt or question wenger and the club? tabs or any other fan for the same matter…. lets not make it personal and have him combusting in a furore again.
im sorry holic but tabs is the one using abusive language. calling us morons, juniors, deluded…..
is that what you mean when you say “debate with respect”?
all i said is that people critisising the club and claim to do so out of their right to freedom of expression should better re think their approach.
in any case surely you know that debates are between two sides. a for and against. what kind of a fan would intentionally put himself in the position of debating the “wrongs”
a lazy one perhaps?…… i dont know…
what kind of a fan sits there and tries to find faults to talk about on the internet? whats the point of it?
Heh, mixed feelings about this, as Piers Morgan usually acts like a complete twat while van Pigsty is well..van Pigsty. http://www.pslnonline.com/ent2.php
No mixed feelings, they’re both utter cunts.
Hmm, thanks for the link Eandy. I’d not come across pslnonline.com before. Having had a quick look at the site, I don’t think it’s one I’ll be coming across again. Happy Birthday all those who are entitled.
Well in Ollie, and well said re the two “P” cunts.
Zelico, calm down, you and TaBS both make valid points, the problem lies in the language used to present those points, reduce the tension and you will find that you’re both going in the same direction.
Just arrived in Devon – unmistakeable waft of Guinness and whisky as we passed Swindon this morning ‘H. 😉
Esso – Happy Birthday, has to be a bit special being May 26th !!
Have just been reading the “debate” between Tabs and zealot-co above.
As far as I could, that is, until all belief was suspended.
Anyone who wants to will already have read the details, so I will desist from any repetition, but the hypocrisy of your replies, “zelico”, and the initially gradual, but eventually dramatic loss of control, when you failed to make someone admit to things they had neither said nor done, was quite startling.
It’s odd, and very noticeable, that there is a certain type of visitor to this ‘bar’ – whichever end of the critical spectrum they come from – who can only be happy once the target of their comments has completely abandoned their own points of view, and entirely adopted those of said visitor.
As far as the debate above is concerned, there are two obvious conclusions to draw. I will use numbers as that is clearly “zelico’s” preferred modus operandi.
1) zelico has never met Tabs.
2) zelico has never before read a single serious Tabs comment.
I will spare my head further pain.
Oh, and N7, way back,
Excellent answer to “zelico” but there are more useful ways to spend your life.
Interesting that “z” above says that a debate must have two sides. As long, presumably, as you are not disagreeing with him/her.
Many Happy Returns Mr Esso.
Arsenal ladies on the beeb in the cup final if anyone’s interested.
One nil up too. 🙂
2-0 to the Arsenal (Ladies)
3-0 it finished, well played Arsenal Ladies!
3-0 to the Arsenal.
FA Cup winners 2013, Congratulations ladies!!!
3-0
Awkward.
Falcao off to newly promoted Monaco to join Moutinho.Looks like Russia and Qatar are going to fight for Ligue 1 title next season.
Seriously you have to question Falcao’s footballing ambition here.Glad in a way that he hasn’t joined Chelski or Real or Shitty but this move doesn’t make any sense footbalistically except of course the lure of $$$$$$$$$$$$.But he could have commanded that figure if he had gone to City or Chelski..Very strange decision.
Oh and congrats to Arsenal Ladies winning what their male counterparts haven’t been able to replicate in 8 years.A goddamn trophy.
Here’s hoping the trophy drought ends next season!
Email from Wolfie ‘H 😉
CMD, he will command the same salary if he went to City or Chelski but he would have had to pay tax.
Haha, just had a back drink. The bullies don’t like to be bullied do they? 🙂
Just as well I had an Anfield thing to finally get down on paper methinks.
It appears that General Pattokos junior still doesn’t get that I wasn’t disagreeing with his opinion, but with his avowed intention to censor any opinion that disagreed with his. Oh well. Looks like he enjoys wearing his jackboots too much.
Ttg, N7 – thanks for your very kind words, but in this instance, really not necessary. As soon as I realised who it was I thought I’d have a bit of fun. Debate with him is futile. It’s like trying to argue with an over stimulated four year old on crack. Trev has it right there.
I could of course take him apart line by line, as could many others, but life is rather too short.
Garsguns – Haha, think you’ll have a long wait there but we’ll have a big drink together next season instead. 🙂
SteveT @397 – I saw that! 🙂
Re: Falcao, my reading of the situation is that he’s possibly gone to Monaco this season because he can’t move directly to Real.
Basically a tax free year out before swanning off to the Bernabeu.
I’ll be interested to see who Athletico buy to replace him. The line from Torres through Aguero to Falcao suggests they know a striker when they see one.
Maybe we should see if they want Bendtner?
Inability to spell the word “criticise” is irritating though, I will admit.
How could those Munich lose to those utter cunts last year and win against such a likeable team as Dortmund?
Bah
Robben with the winner, too. Football sucks sometimes
How could Munich lose to those utter cunts last year and win against such a likeable team as Dortmund?
Bah
Robben with the winner, too. Football sucks sometimes
Oops sorry for the double post
Harsha, I agree…………… twice.
What irratated me (apart from Robben not having to bawl his baldy head off) was how Dante, who was already on a yellow card, managed not to get sent off for that penalty incident. Surely that “tackle” was worth at least a yellow?
The ‘we’ll play at home with next season’s away kit’ promotional stuff is a bit cunty. But a second time? Downright ridiculous.
GUEST POST KLAXON! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think the issue with Falcao is immensely complicated by his ownership. I read an article about it recently which made my head ache. Myles ( never got a transfer story right in his life ) Palmer recently said he was going to United but then he said Neymar had signed for Bayern!
I think the complexity of his ownership turned off several clubs and would be a nightmare.
It looks like the top strikers are getting sorted first. Looks like Lewandowski,Neymar and Falcao are sorted and Cavani is being fought over by several oil – rich classless outfits like Citeh. We then reach the next tier one of which is Rooney but I just don’t see him leaving to join us and I doubt he will leave. So our likely choices might be the sort of players like Higuain, Jovetic, Bony,Augyemang , Soldado,Negredo and Carlton Cole( that was a joke) .B list but a decent list and several of them may be A list soon with the right sort of support and teamwork.
They will also not cost ridiculous sums of money although Jovetic looks toppy at £25 mill if that is really the price.
Frankly we are seeing so much tosh and drivel in the papers I think it is best to see what materialises . I think Arsenal like to conclude at least one big signing in this tax year and also to stimulate season ticket sales so we may know sooner rather than later. And if the Mignolet stories are true I will be delighted. He is an excellent and developing goalkeeper
ha you are something else .
you call me aggressive yet tabs is the one abusing, why is there no acknowledgement of that?
he says i disagree with his opinion and calls me a fascist when all ive said is that his or any others opinions are like farts in the wind at the end of the day unless they are backed up by facts /evidence, which none of us has..
he thinks the discussion we are having is about him and his right to express his opinion whereas the real point is about trusting and showing faith in the tested and working methods of the manage whoever that may be.
since those methods have worked there is no reason why tabs or any other should enter into debates about whether the work being done is good or not. its a given. to do so smacks of laziness rather than concern.
i think i made it clear its not about his right to air an opinion ..its about my right to critisie his or any others ..especially when those opinions of his bring nothing bt trouble nd presuure to an already pressured club.
apparently he doesnt like it if i find it insulting on behalf of our manager that fans are debating his intentions or his decissions. perhaps he feels like wenger is a manager who should be quesioned and made to answer, i dont and i can easily prove to him that he is talking shit.
you have no solid reasons to even enter the thought that wenger can be brought to task or questioned for his decissions. he knows more than you, he cares more than you , and he is way more responsible than you.
the manager’s intention has always been to improve the club and do what is best for the club so i find it insulting that fans with 40 years experience dont get it and hide behind their fingers like in kindergarten playing the “freedom to an opinion” card.
some are acting as if wenger has to give exams before we support his plans and vision for arsenal. like he has to convince us of anything….
so with all due respect maybe its you guys with the real problems and not arsenal….
arsenal is fine, in fact in the best period and position it has ever been if we talk in terms of the overall health of the organisation.
if you people need debates for this era i wonder what youll do when the real decay creeps in…