The Many Views Of Ivan And Guests
Jun 11th, 2013 by 'holic
Like most of you I have seen previous Arsenal Q&A sessions on the various iterations of Arsenal TV, but I am indebted to Paul Matz and AISA for the opportunity to see this latest one in the flesh. I’m glad I did.
The atmosphere and setting adds to the context, as indeed does the composition of the front row. If ever proof were needed that the old board are now little more than a human shield it was apparent in the expensively-assembled, sharp-suited executive talent staring back at Ivan from the nearest vantage points.
Ivan’s eyes looked out at a sea of faces. It was as if he were addressing the Afghan military. There were a handful of snipers out there among the loyal, but where were they? To be fair the event is now so well managed that excessive disagreement is kept bubbling under the surface.
I doubt there are many out there who haven’t caught the excellent transcript from Tim Stillman on Arseblog News. What is fascinating is the interpretation, or should I say interpretations, of those words.
Such is the quality of the responses to the pre-submitted questions there is sufficient room for a number of people of different viewpoints to have made them suit their own arguments very nicely, thank you very much.
Where others saw Ivan’s insistence that it is his job to provide Arsene with the money to invest in the team as proof that this happened in the past couple of years, I also saw his frank assessment that we had not generated the sort of money to make us competitive with our super-rich rivals.
I did however pick up on the feeling that this has all changed this summer, and Ivan was very clear that we are involved in a number of negotiations and he personally is fully aware of where we stand in each one. This is a long way from ‘hanging the manager out to dry’ as I have seen elsewhere.
Anyway, the pre-selected questions covered most of the gripes the various groups have. Ivan sidestepped a question about the perceived quality of the squad very skillfully, then had to address the issue of Robin van Stapleton’s departure.
The wage structure was covered and Ivan emphasised we are in a position to pay world class money for world class talent. I would have liked to have seen him pressed further at this point. Clearly there is a balancing act to be done if you sign a player on £200k a week then that denies you the opportunity to perhaps get two players at half that. There is still a budget figure, surely, even if it is now much bigger than we have had in recent seasons?
The delay in recruiting new talent was pretty much laid at the door of the clubs with whom we want to trade not having managers in place. I immediately thought this must rule out any move for Cesc so far then?
FFP obviously loomed large. Now it appears it is either enforced or it isn’t and we are prepared for any eventuality. I thought this the least convincing explanation of the evening, but in all honesty would anybody give a flying fig about FFP if we were winning things on the pitch. It is a net filler in a sea of reaction to disappointment.
If I left the meeting with one concern running around my relatively empty head it was this continued reference to the £300 million figure that puts us on an equal footing with Bayern Munich. It felt as though this was a ceiling, a target beyond which we did not need to aspire, or certainly not yet anyway. The huddle, nay almost crush, around Ivan at the end dissuaded me from attempting to discuss it with him.
Instead I trudged out with the rest of the thirsty horde to grab a pint of London Pride for the journey back west. Ivan, I really wouldn’t have minded paying for the glass of wine denied me because my voucher had already been used to buy a quickly evaporated pint of Tetleys dishwater.
The event will be broadcast on Arsenal Player shortly I understand, so do watch, if that is your bag. Make your own minds up about what was or wasn’t ‘inferred’.
A final thanks too to all of you who came up to offer kind words about the blog. Those Google hangouts with SWOL and Arseblog are obviously watched by more people than I realised. Thanks again. I’ll have to go and buy a larger trappers hat for the winter now to fit my swollen skull.
262 Responses to “The Many Views Of Ivan And Guests”
Get in. As quick as Ivan with his cheque book…..
I have not had a chance to read the full transcript yet, just snipits. I am more sceptical than buoyed by his comments. The fact that he admits we have stagnated over the last few years worries me greatly. The obvious question Ivan is why? Why have we stood still???
I think our actions, or lack of them on previous seasons does not make it easy for us now. I guess now is the time to see how good he really is???
Cheers Holic. Amazing, 30 years ago the club would never have dreamed of hosting such an event. Also, 30 years ago was the summer we signed Charlie Nicholas, when we very much considered behind Liverpool and United in the race to acquire him.
I have been fairly impressed with Gazidis’ performance, but I think that the proof of the pudding will be where we are come August.
If we enter the new season with a couple of major additions and a stronger looking squad then he will look like a man with a plan, and I suspect the support will broadly fall behind him.
If not? Well… I think he’ll have made a real rod for his own back, and that of the manager.
I have to admit, I really haven’t understood the flak that Gazidis has gotten. The man’s mandate isn’t how we play on the pitch, but how we perform off the pitch and he has done a stellar job. It’s about time that people actually started recognizing it.
Ah Cheers ‘H. Good stuff.
Really not used to these lunchtime posts. Cut off in my prime. Am I the new Trev? 🙂
Thanks for the unexpected post ‘H. Up to your usual high standard.
N7@4: I haven’t seen anything of Gazidis’ performance so can’t judge. However, I would suggest that the proof of the pudding would be better judged in May rather than August.
“The fact that he admits we have stagnated over the last few years worries me greatly. The obvious question Ivan is why? Why have we stood still??? ”
How many times do the words Emirates, £400 million, sugar daddies and mortgage, have to be uttered in the same sentence before people get why we haven’t been competitive in the transfer market for the last 4 years.
We may not like it, but them’s the facts. Spending 30-40 m+ this close season, will signal that the lean years are over, and IMO we would be contenders for the title next year.
My reading of IGs recent statements and the AST conversation is that this is where we’re at.
In general, whilst AWs transfer record is a bit hit and miss, the misses are more often in the “cheap, unknown” category. There have been fewer issues with established players – Arteta and Mert spring to mind, for example. Given that our ( assumed?) targets are well established / arguably world class players from abroad at 20m +, or players with EPL experience such as Williams, Michu, Fellaini et al, the odds seem to favour a good close season for us, and reasons to be optimistic come August.
An interesting read ‘Holic. Thank you. Can you tell I’m not manically busy for once today ;-).
For me the polished questions and answers are as important as the atmosphere, which sounds interestingly calm, as being a listed company what is said will not be misleading.
I also picked up on the £300m point, which may or may not be until next year depending on how the sponsor income is written in the books (presumably, I’m patently (to myself at least!) not an accountant). I think it is a red herring though because spending the additional turnover negates the point of reaching that turnover figure to some extent (though perhaps making profit will fall off the agenda, but this seems unlikely) but I could be wrong here.
I’ll make sure to book in in advance to catch up with you at the Tollie next season to avoid an Ivan Gazidis-style crush around you :-). Fully deserved recognition (in the non-picking you out sense!) I might add.
A couple of thoughts:
I don’t think May is a fair time to judge Gazidis. Once the transfer windows are closed there isn’t a whole lot he can do to help Arsene on the pitch, and he doesn’t decide which players to bring in. He’s making claims re: what we are going to do this summer. I think end of summer is the time to judge whether or not he can be taken at his word.
I also don’t think we will challenge for the title next year. 20-odd points is a huge amount of ground to make up in a single season.
For me, a successful summer in the transfer market, an improvement in our league performance (i.e. not in a scrap for 4th and a greatly reduced gap between us and the top team) and a cup win would constitute a really good season.
Sammy. Check out Ivan’s comments over recent years about how much money we have available. Check out his comments over the last few years about about how we are performing. Then you might understand my comment.
Be the best you can be. That’s all I have ever asked.
Great report as ever Holic!
With all those live transmissions on the Arsecast you’ll gave to get a disguise pretty soon..!
Tabs,
Thanks for comments over leaf. I don’t think were in any disagreement at all! I would never advocate spending for the sake of it (In fact I can’t think of better person than Arsene to get the most bang for our buck) but if anything, I do feel that he can be too prudent and indeed too stubborn at times!
I’m just really happy because it feels we’re turning a corner. The austerity hand cuffs can come off now and we can look forward to building a team that will really compete. There’s a genuine sense of positivity surrounding the club and I think thats coming through in the media as well.
We are where we are because of the vision of Wenger and the support of a myriad of hardworking people at the club, some of whom are no longer with us. The circumstances when Fisman handed over the keys to Kronke were most unfortunate. But I like to think he would happy in seeing how things have been handled so far since his departure.
Indeed Joe.
No picture?
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/48401/ivan-gazidis-qanda-pictures
I see someone who could be the barman, in the first picture.
Afternoon all.
Thank for that ‘holic sir, I am, after reading this and TS’s notes, fully caught up on yesterdays goings on. But before I comment on that I would like to thank TS and Tabs for their replies in the previous drinks, what you both said about our ability to attract the top players due to our standing and the fact that we can offer CL football is exactly how I felt…….. a few years ago.
Steve T penned “our activity in the recent transfer windows has done us harm.”. This is my biggest fear too. I have no proof that it will detere players from joining us, it’s just a niggling doubt that I can’t shake. Ah well, as Ivan said; ït’s over to Arsene”
Back to the subject at hand, it seems to have gone all very well, but honestly I didn’t expect any other outcome. Seems to me that the same questions garnered the same answers, nothing shocking, nothing new, all a bit bland really. You can take from it whatever you chose to take, optimism for the future , vindication that things haven’t been great in the past, or just a sense of deja vu, because , like me, you may be sure you’ve heard this all before.
To me, it’s nothing but rhetoric and properganda spoon fed to the hungry masses, well brought points spawned by an intellegent public speaker, still to me talk, as the saying goes, is cheap, actions speak louder then words is another one I can fling into the ring, as is about the puddings taste being the proof. He’s laid down the marker, set the bar, now is the time to do the business, I dread the fall out if they come up short again.
One grievance I had was the constant comparison to Bayern Munich, we are not them and never will be, the 300million that was brandied about is an irrelevent figure, as we operate under different circumstances in different leagues. The Bundesliga is a much tighter run ship then the PL, with very different financial rues, there are no sugar daddies there. Bayern are easily the biggest fish in that pond, they have the trophy haul of Man U, with the spending power, in comparison to their direct competition, of Man City. We could very easily generate the same revenue as them, but unlike them, we’d still be playing catch up with at least three clubs in our league, unless FFP realy does do what it says on the tin, however as I’ve previously sated, I’m pretty sceptical about that whole concept, Ivan’s reaction to questions on that very situation did nothing to temper those fears.
It’s going to be an interesting summer.
N7: “I also don’t think we will challenge for the title next year. 20-odd points is a huge amount of ground to make up in a single season.”
Let me first and foremost say that I don’t think we’ll challenge for the league next season either, BUT…
In 2006/7 we also finished a million miles off the top and we then sold our best striker and brought in a French right-back that no one had heard of and then a Brazilian playing for Croatia totally out of the blue. Flamini was, to the delight of many, about to be offloaded as the deadwood he was but we couldn’t/wouldn’t shift him.
I think we can all remember 2007/8 and how close we came to winning the league that season so unlikely as it may be let us not forget it CAN be done. Confidence plays a fairly large part, so two really good additions to the squad we already have and a good start to the season and who knows?
Cheers Holic,
As you say, atmosphere sets a lot of the context, but the public nature of these repeated statements means good things are on the way.
IG will be well aware of exactly what Arsene Wenger is intending to do, otherwise he is painting his “wonderful manager” into an impossible corner.
Waiting for signings to appear at The Emirates though is like running a bath, one drop at a time, for your badly aching muscles.
Unfortunately, as each drop plips from the tap, one drop seeps out from the slightly ill-fitting plug, until you eventually let out a primal scream borne of pain and frustration.
Enjoy your soak, Holics. 😉
Tabs,
Agree with your @170 in the previous drinks.
As for being the new me, dream on !
Unless, of course, it was an exclamation of horror. 😉
Holic,
Could you please warn me “Not to do it !”, 5 minutes before submitting the dreaded chevrons, rather than as an accompaniment to them. 😉
There also seems to be the constant message that everything on the pitch is solely down to AW and AW alone. Is that the clearest indication of how much he misses someone in the David Dein role?
Time for a bit of manning-up round here !
Given ( no not him ! ) the kind of signings we are all envisaging, and bearing in mind how many of our lost points last season were down to individual errors, and the fact that we didn’t start defending until February, of course we can close the points gap and win the league next season.
I shall pay Lars’ tab if we don’t !
Primal Scream Trev? Who’d’ve thunk it?
I always thought you were an Oasis of considered thinking.
The Nirvana of ‘I want it and I want it now’ for the (Dr.)Feelgood crew has rarely been The Arsenal way. The last time we moved in a Blur was after that result that I 8-2 be reminded of i.e. when were in a real Jam.
The Eagle(s) eyed amongst you will of course spot that I’m Talking (my) Head(s) off for the sake of pure punnery.
Over to you maestro(s)…
Great stuff Mr.H BTW. Where are my manners?
Good shout Lars.
I guess you never know, anything is possible. But I would hate to see a title challenge become the basic bottom line fans’ requirement for next season.
Marked improvement and a big kick in the right direction will do me. Presumably our coffers will swell further this time next year + it might take a couple of decent transfer windows to build a squad with the kind of balance needed for a real tilt at the title.
Martin Samuel’s recent interview with Platini showed clearly that FFP is not, and never was, going to save football and that nothing at all will change. If we are still going to rely on it to level the playing field, I think we would be the only club in Europe to keep that hope alive.
In short, stop pissing about and spend.
Mr.Pants @ #8
I thought you made some very good points on which I personally happen to agree with, in the main.
However, respect for the regulars in here is a by-word for how we operate. There are all types of top Gooners that contribute to this site in all kinds of ways. Steve T, happen to be one of those.
However, we do tend to make an exception for those who have been following The Arsenal since 1954 or earlier 😉
There’s a drink waiting for you on the bar just for that splendid pseudonym alone.
UTA!
N7@23 and earlier, I don’t want to say that a title challenge should be the sole yardstick by which next season is judged, but I do think that any judgement before the end of the season is likely to be premature. I wouldn’t attempt to judge our performance in the transfer market on any basis other than how the squad formed during that window performs, and I don’t we can do that until the end of the season.
Oxon
I suspect we’re talking at cross-purposes here. I’m referring to judgement re: Ivan and his “we’ll start spending now” spiel. I think you’re talking more broadly about a judgement of the club’s success in getting the right targets in.
Either way, I agree that we won’t really know what kind of summer we’ve had until the football gets back underway.
I just wish I knew who’ll be in the side when we kick off on the opening day!
I just wish I knew who’ll be in the side when we kick off on the opening day! – nah, I like a few surprises.
Talking at cross purposes is what I do best 🙂
This was nothing more than a well rehearsed performance by a skilled marketing director . If Gazidis were really honest this is what he would’ve said. On RVP – As soon as Robin made the decision not to resign, it became strictly about money and how the get the most for him. We would’ve liked to sell him to Juventus ,but they only offered half what Man City did. Wenger didn’t want to sell him to Man City because he felt a grudge against them for raiding his squad before, so he settled on Man U’s second highest offer. On Song’s departure – We sold our key player because Barca made us an offer to good to turn down. It was again , a strictly financial decision . On future transfers – Wenger is responsible for all future transfers as he has been in the past. He might add a world class player to his squad ,if he can get him at below market value. On Arsenal on the pitch performance – We achieved our bare minimum. On our chances for next season – I’m optimistic, seeing how strongly we finished the season, but with the big three ready to spend big again, fourth place is where we probably end up.
Cheers everyone. Great comments.
My take on yesterday was as stated by many. Interpretation was in the eye of the beholder. Optimist or pessimist, you could read/ hear his comments anyway you liked.
I personally feel that the tide is turning. The Bayern comments I think we’re chosen to show that we will have a commercial revenue that is equal to a treble winning European team. Maybe not the largest in the world but one that can indeed compete in Europe. I also feel that this will be the first summer of adding a few quality pieces to the squad that will move us out if the scrapping for 4th territory and more towards giving it a go. Will we win the league next year? Who knows. Manure had a season in which the only had 3 draws and Moyes was the king of draws at Everton. Something’s gotta give.
Arsenal till I die!
Cheers all.
Thanks for the post H. Very interesting.
Ivan’s claims of turning the corner, bigger funds, shopping with the big boys and lots of activity in this summer’s transfer market are either the recycled nonsense of a fool spinning for all he’s worth or the news we have been waiting several long years to hear.
We will clearly know which it is in August though there will hopefully be a few clues in the coming weeks.
I hope (and suspect) it is the latter though as Steve T has observed, Ivan has made inappropriately positive projections before. If this is another of these he is a bigger fool than I take him for and will reap one hell of a reaction from those who care for the club.
Meanwhile we must wait and hope. Or if it works for you, pray.
Trev @18 – Haha, not an exclamation of horror, more a whimper of foreboding 😉
NorCal @30 – “Interpretation was in the eye of the beholder. Optimist or pessimist, you could read/ hear his comments anyway you liked.”
Bang on. And that, after all, is what I assume good PR is all about.
bathgooner – it all comes down to whether you think Arsene Wenger will make use of the funds at his disposal, and as he didn’t even spend what he had available before we supposedly fell into a big pile of money, I ain’t holding my breath. And if he signs a new deal, you can have another four or five years of Ivan talking big and fooling fewer and fewer people every summer.
I hope this is going to be the summer when we sort out the bullies who have been kicking sand in our face for years, but fear we are going to have to take even more grit in the kisser, as despite having the Charles Atlas books handy, they’ll sit unused in the cupboard…
Just read the transcript of Ivan’s QA on Arseblog News. Thanks for the headsup H.
It appears that the number 1 take home message was……..
“I think I’m right in saying we have some of the cheapest pies in the league here now”
That’s all right then!
Hello all,
It’s been a while as I have been busy with work related non sense. Just reading through the drinks of this post and the previous one, some good stuff
As has been mentioned, time to judge Ivan is at the start of the season
Also, has Snir been active in the drinks lately? I will be traveling to Tel Aviv in a few days and would love to ask him a few things about the place
May be I will just twitter him? Or tweet him? Gah!
A pint of something which isn’t very confusing, barman
No sign of Snir lately, Harsha.
Probably too busy getting his crystal balls ready for an assault on silly season.
I’ve just booked my first Arsenal-related trip for next season. A whole bunch of us Swedes will make the trip over to Helsinki for that last pre-season game v Man City. And next week the fixture list comes out, so then I can start looking at candidates for London visits as well. Me like!
I have read some very interesting stuff about the meeting and overall it sounds encouraging but then if Gazidis and co can’t achieve that vibe we are in trouble! I came away with a less positive feeling last year at he same meeting because I thought IG was being economical with the truth on Van Payslip.
It’s worth looking back to the seasons between 1998 and 2002- two double seasons and how far we finished behind United in the latter seaons then. Big changes can take place with the right personnel recruitment and a positive vibe around the club. This year this would be helped by a couple of big signings that inspire confidence but could evaporate if Wenger gives us something like’ we don’t need new players we need to have belief in the quality of this group’. It’s over to you Arsene!
Good stuff, Lars.
Hi Harsha, I have been to Tel Aviv once, but it was just a two-days work trip so not sure I can be of any help really!
All I will say is that security to get on the plane in the first place was a pain in the arse!
(but then I was flying with El Al)
Hey Lars,
Saw Kris at the Tollie beforehand. I’ll swear one or other of you is permanently over here 🙂
It would seem that is the case, Holic 🙂
I have just had the chance to read the transcript. It appears that Ivan is an expert in actually saying not a lot. I can’t be the only one who thought that a lot of the answers where those of a smooth politician? I don’t think any of us would have learnt anything really new from that?
As I said before, the proof will be plain for all to see very soon I guess. I am sceptical and far from confident that we will get the quality of player we desperately need. I do not doubt Ivan the business man, I am just not convinced with his football credentials. Not yet anyway.
This is a massive close season for us. We have had season upon season of false promises. Get it wrong now and it won’t be just Ivan’s head they will want on a stick. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, I really do. However, I won’t be holding my breath just yet.
Snir is in Israel, I presume with his balls, hugging lots of different people every day, according to his Facebook.
I have to say I only use the thing to keep in touch with folks who are travelling abroad, rather than telling everybody how much I enjoyed my breakfast.
Why Snir is hugging so many people I have no idea, as all the comments are in Israeli. I can only guess it is proving more fun than joining in with transfer speculation.
Didn’t you enjoy your breakfast this morning Trev? Please re-assure me.
I have to say I only use the thing to keep in touch with folks who are travelling abroad
You could use it to keep in touch with me every time I’m going to a game then! 😉
I’ll tell you tomorrow, bath.
It’s a serial. 😉
That reminds me – nice punnery TS, @21.
Sorry I wasn’t around to respond. 😉
Sorry, bath.
That @46 only really works in audio. 😉
Fab fifty? Nah, he’s still not 25 is he?
Good evening everyone. Holic, one of my favourite reads of the thriller genre is ‘Eye of the Needle’. With an economy of words, you managed to convey the atmosphere and set the scene. Really enjoyed that. Paragraph six stands out for me. You’re cheeky comment about Cesc was appreciated as well 😉 Sadly, your concerns about Bayern, went over my head. But that is a good thing, an author must always be one or two steps, ahead of his readers 😉
Splendid at 46, Trev, but don’t milk it (48)
Heh @46.
Racked my brains for a riposte but I’m toast.
Must be today’s weather getting to me. You’d think it’d be bacon this time of year? Not eggsactly what we eggspect?
Nay, bath, there’s no’ a shreddie evidence tha’ it should be sunny. 😉
harsha, snir’s been in the homeland for a few weeks, i don’t believe he’s back.
Harsha, my @43.
Wait a bix and it’ll no be so frosties. 😛
52 & 53….do Bath & Holic have Malted Shreddies for their breakfast? 😉
Heh, the cold temperatures here are already brekking records. 😉
trev, bath, i’ve never seen you guys waffle before, especially not about the weather.
Nah, I pour the malt onto my porridge.
Please, shut your English muffins! 😉
No NorCal,
I shall take my egg and toast and soldier on regardless. 😉
Stiff upper lip young soldier.
I raise a toast to you.
Top punning. 😀
Enough to make a puncake, Ollie ? 😉
norcal’s mapulling your leg, ollie. he’s juiced, as always, but never a basted.
Hi fellas.
Harsha tweeted me and we’re emailing. Might even meet up with the bloke if he’s got time for a pint of Guinness.
Trev – I’m not hugging people, I’m taking pics with them with my hand on their shoulder! You know, us Israelis are a lot warmer than Americans who need their “private space.” 😉
And yes, it is too much fun here, but I’ve gotta go back to the U.S. in July.
Juiced, baked, fried , slightly basted. In rare form. Chomping at the bit. Hungry for some transfer news. Punch drunk but clear eyed. Breaking fast for the door and my coat, somebody pass me the biscuits.
That reminds me, I skipped lunch.
Looks like hugging to me Snir ! 😉
And we Britons need our “privates space”. 😉
With some creative spacing that last post would read like a cba special. 😉
Holics
My 12yr old Grandson asked me a question yesterday,which i couldn’t answer.
When he is winding me up with trick questions,he has a few giveaways which alert me,but this time it seemed a genuine one.
The question was,
Is it harder to cycle up a hill or to run up it.??
If both runner and cyclist start at the same time at the bottom of the hill,are both of equal fitness and age,who would get to the top first.??
Any thughts anyone.??
Cheers
The Sweeper
OOPS
Thoughts even.!!!
I feel like I’m being had here, Clive, but –
The runner would take the lead from the off.
I imagine it would then depend entirely on the gradient, the length of the hill, and what sort of gears the bike had.
The lower the gearing, the more shallow the gradient and the longer the distance, the more likely the bike would overtake the runner.
Ok, so now make me look daft with the answer !
Clive,
If all things are equal except for the bike, then the cyclist should reach the top first. Most bikes give the rider a mechanical advantage that provides an increased distance travelled to energy expended as compared to a runner.
However, there are several factors that can change the physics and decrease the mechanical advantage.
As an anecdotal story, one of my partners who is an avid adventure racer and strong cyclist was ridding his bike up a mountain here when he was passed by a jogger. As the jogger went passed him he noticed that it was actually the American marathon record holder who was motoring by him. Not the exact same age and fitness but close. Stride, endurance and determination play a part in everything in sports as well.
Cheers
Trev,
I too feel like a 12 yo is about to show us both up.
Ha
I’ve said it before. I’ll say it again.
Barking.
The lot of you 😉
Thank you for that.
Theoretically i would have thought it’s the same degree of difficulty for both because your pushing your own body weight whether your cycling or running up a hill.
Barking ? We take our lead from you, H. 😉
I thought only Wolfie actually barked. 😉
Well, quiet time at the bar. My day started brightly enough. My dear kitty Luigi (he had been very ill) turned a corner today. He started to eat and drink on his own. Thank you God. Then I had the misfortune of watching a video posted on twitter about ‘people’ eating LIVE sushi. The poor frog was watching as this ‘human’ devoured him. Can’t get that image out of my head. My point is, this wonderful place, has kept me sane through some very tough times for me. As always, your thoughtful comments, lite banter and cool links, have been my lifeline. Thany you all so much, Abb And a big smile for some new folks/shy folks here 🙂
I keep reading of deals being done, and it looks to me more and more like business as usual for us. That is, we will not be doing anything at the really serious end until the big cats have sucked up the cream. We will then get to bid for those they didn’t want but who were hanging out hoping till the last.
And that’s assuming whoever doesn’t get signed by Monaco, Mancs, Paris St vermin, Real mad etc actually deign to join a perceived second string outfit (ie, I read today that Jovetic would prefer Juve to us).
But a wish list anyway … Casillas, Varane, Capoue or Fellaini, Reus, Lemonsquashki.
Oskar
Oskar, Very pragmatic. But there is a fair amount of optimism coming from neutrals, that this indeed will be our summer. What surprised me was IG saying that the Champions League qualifier in August was not an issue. After all, we lost key players who cited winning titles as their # 1 priority. On the plus side, we have shed our image as a selling team. We are only a couple of signings away from being viewed as serious contenders. See Lars @ 16 😉 Your mention of Casillas did manage to make me smile quite broadly 🙂 Great goalie and sound character !
Re: Abb @80. I always preferred live sushi myself. 😉
Luigi probably would too. 🙂
“20-odd points is a huge amount of ground to make up in a single season.” – Lars #16
I’m still mystified how Manure won so easily with the squad they had and cannot see them doing so again now Scholes and Fergie have gone for good.
Them aside we were only five points off second place … which means if we’d won instead of losing just one game each against Manshitty and Chelski we would have been second outright.
Oskar
You want us to match the 85m Monaco and Real are rumoured to be offering for Ronaldo and Bale, Redtruth? In your dreams!
Oskar
@71 Goonersince54 (Post number may change, there’s an awful smell in here at the moment)
If there were two men at the bottom of the Col de la Madeleine, one on a bike, one on Shank’s Pony, I know who I’d back to get to the top first.
Abb. keep smiling Nursie. 😀
The Sweeper – Great way to break-up the silliness of silly-season, my thanks to your grandson. I’m with Norcal BTW, it’s all about mechanical advantage so it’s the cyclist for me assuming the bike is not made of lead (Pb).
I tried to start a bands punnery session but it gets usurped by breakfast instead. Splendid work Trev, bath, Ollie, Norcal (did I miss anyone?). I especially enjoyed the image of bath pouring whiskey on his porridge to kick-start his day.
Cheers to H2H @ #15.
Talking of silly season, not happy with convincing themselves that Cesc is coming ‘home’ the twitterati are now saying it’s just down to his demands of returning as captain. You could not make it up. What? Oh, they already did.
If you want a genuine at laugh Sp*rs and are prepared to protect yourself in a BWS first then check these 2 accounts out. I am convinced they are parodies as no-one can be that stupid, not even LWCS:
@enfieldspurs @baleessex
abb, happy for you that the little kitty is ok!
TS: I’ve seen those accounts and surely they must both be Gooners extracting Michael out of Spuds fans?
As for who gets to the top first of the runner and the biker, well it’s pretty obvious, innit? The runner hitches a ride with the biker for a bit and then when the bike rider is exhausted from carrying the extra weight the runner jumps off and runs past the biker with ease.
Though to be a bit serious both of them would have to expend the same amount of energy (assuming they both use the exact same path and from a standing start so the bike rider can not use any built up kinetic energy) to lift their body weight from the start to the top so from that point of view it would be equally straining so who would get there first would more or less only be a function of how steep the incline is because the steeper it is the more energy the biker would have to use on keeping his balance and if it’s steep enough would even struggle to get started while the runner can still relatively easily get moving.
But I have a feeling the answer is going to be a lot less scientific than that 🙂
Surely on Lars@89’s argument, the biker must do more work as he has to lift the bike up the mountain as well as his own bodyweight? (NB I feel justified using he/him/his throughout as any woman would surely be sensible enough to take the bus.)
Actually, I’ve figured out the answer.
Eventually, the runner will win every time.
Why?
Because as we all know, every cyclist who has ever crossed a finishing line first will eventually be caught in a doping test. Ergo, no matter who crosses the line first the runner will be awarded the victory sooner or later.
Unless, of course, he/she also gets caught in which case we will have to call it a draw.
Is there a Pub at the bottom of the Hill?
Would the race ever take place?
Heh tabs @92, too true…
……and if they race up after the stagerer will get there first cos the other fella will keep falling off the bike.
…..but if the pub is at the top, who gets to the bar first?
Clearly the runner, ‘cos he doesn’t have to get his feet out of the pedals and park the bike.
-stagerer
+staggerer
Good to hear Luigi is looking up, Abb.
Anyone here tried riding up Everest lately?
Lars,
I don’t think cyclist and runner would use exactly the same amount of energy.
– The cyclist has to lift himself AND the bike up the hill.
– There must be some energy lost in transmission through all the mechanical bits of the bike.
Cyclist, therefore, expends more energy on two counts.
We are going to look so stupid when we get the answer to this. 😉
As we’re in quiz mode, can you help me out with this, Ollie.
The answer is apparently a four letter word to complete the following, and my French doesn’t seem to be up to the task. 😉
un petit
d’un petit
c’est un a —-
Cheers. 😉
Pre-assist
??? Trev.
Just to help me though is that A+4 letters in the same word, or (it looks actually quite explicit in what you say but it seems bizarre to me) ‘a’ and then a 4 letter word
Shoots
Get in there!
Haha, the totally magical random assist, had no idea about the post number, and Cent posted in the meantime while I only had Trev’s drink there.
WEll in N7.
It is true that the bike would also have to be lifted but considering modern-day racing bikes (assuming such a bike is used) weigh next to nothing so that loss of energy would be as good as negligible, as would the energy lost in generating movement of the bike. The single largest factor would still be the gradient of the incline, and factors such as tyre pressure would be more important than the weight of the bike. Well, unless you have a really heavy bike. Or find some other hole in my logic in which case I would throw a hissy fit and go into the pub that tabs built next to the starting point and have a pint and say I was never interested in your poxy race to begin with, so there!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mots_d%27Heures
Oh I see. I’m not sure why I expected this to be a serious question, heh 😉
Got Humpty Dumpty sat in my head now…
Cheers all , for your kind words. Luigi says meow 😉
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8772209/Nicklas-Bendtner-set-to-leave-Arsenal-in-coming-weeks
How the hell are we going to replace TGSTEL??
Wenger AHHHHHHT!!!!!!
Heh in the midst of silly season, stumbled upon this vid…always great to remind how awesome of a player TR is 😀 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjaIbE6grIc
Nicely posted Eandy, top vid…a truly special player.
‘Small Mozart’? I though it was ‘Little Mozart’, which sounds a lot better, heh….
Damn you, Ollie. Far too clever.
It is indeed –
Umpty,
D’umpty
Sat on a WALL. 🙁
Afternoon all.
Ollie, it doesn’t really matter which airline you take to Israel, it’s always a hassle, at Schipol you have to check in three hours in advance just to get through all their questions. But that’s nothing compared to the grief you get if you try to come in from one of it’s border nations, I spent 7 and a half hours being grilled when i came in through Egypt about 15 years back. They couldn’t grasp the concept that I had a British Passport that was issued in Amsterdam.
I don’t understand this cycle/walk up the hill riddle, why don’t they just drive up it?
A drink for all at the bar and a saucer of milk for Luigi.
Heh, Trev @111
tres sage.
H2H,
“7 and a half hours being grilled”
Yes, but that’s very rare.
Actually, it’s extremely well done. 😉
Messi being investigated for tax evasion. Why people who are richer than God feel the need to do this is beyond me.
Heh Trev, I wondered if they had made a misteak.
Mo’ money, mo’ problems, Cynic.
Cynic, some of them don’t do it intentionally, footballers, especially, rarely file their tax returns by themselves, so it’s usually their management team who, deliberately or in-deliberately, fail to make necessary payments or file necessary papers.
About the riddle: assuming the difference in friction between the sole of the runner’s shoes and the hill’s surface and the friction between the cycle’s wheels and the hills’s surface is negligible, surely the cyclist will need to spend more energy altogether as his cycling is the only force hauling him and the cycle against gravity. Whereas for the runner it is just hauling him. Something like that … 🙂
About the transfers and billion rumors and Gazidis and what has happened over the last few years and all that…good to see that I am not the only one who is terribly bored with the annual festivities of inanities.
Also proud to be part of a club that stands above the times in terms of consistency, vision and ethical behavior running through all aspects of its functioning and being-in-the-world.
Come August, we will see some improvements in the squad. And improvements, by their very nature, is never enough …
Dr F
On the riddle: not necessarily. Assuming, ceteris paribus (i.e. the runner and cyclist are of similar height and build), that both of them are capable of producing roughly the same amount of power (I think it was called ‘work’ in GCSE physics…), then yes, the cyclist does indeed have to move more mass up the hill (himself + the bike). However, as I think someone else mentioned, bicycles are incredibly efficient machines, or in physics terms, they’re capable of achieving a higher velocity with relatively little input from the cyclist.
Bikes kick runners’ arses. Unless there comes a point (i.e. a minimum gradient) above which the hill is so steep that running becomes somehow more efficient than cycling. But then the runner would also run into (sorry) similar problems.
The question is: at what point does running become climbing? At that point, is it still a hill or should it be termed a cliff?
No, no it’s still a hill. Some mountains can be summited without climbing.
I’m still supping with Lars at the bottom of the hill, but by all means, you boys crack on.
Went to a party dressed as Humpty Dumpty last night.
Got fuckin’ smashed.
Were they eggspecting you ? 😉
Glad your cat’s on the mend Nursie.
Pleased you’re here actually. I’m not feeling too chipper, anything you can recommend for a frog in the throat? 😉
Heh Trev 🙂
CG @ 120: let us look at the problem from a very basic principle, which is energy spent. Agreed that it is easier to achieve higher velocity with the cycle, but total energy spent in traversing a certain heigh against gravity is independent of the velocity(speed).
The cyclist typically has to spend force against three types of resistance: rolling/surface friction and air resistance and gravity.
The runner has to spend force against two types of resistance: surface friction and gravity.
If it is a tall enough hill and the cyclist is not going too furiously — the air resistance would typically be proportional to some polynomial, maybe cube or ^4, of the speed — then the difference in these resistances and frictions can be neglected.
Hence the main contribution in energy spent would be to overcome against the gravity. If the distance covered is D, the incline of the hill is i degrees, and gravitational constant is g, the mass of teh cyclist in m and that of the cycle is M, the difference in static gravitational energy values from before and after the race would be:
a. Runner : m * g * D * sin(i)
b. Cyclist: (m+M) * g * D * sin(i)
For a large enough D, these would be significantly higher than the energy spent against surface friction and air resistance. For a short distance when these are comparable the equation would get much more complicated and a predominant factor would be the speed of the cycle.
Faustus,
The cyclist will win, cos he gets all that extra blood sugar from the m+Ms. 😉
Sorry to say but your theory is hopelessly flawed.
“If it is a ‘tall enough’ hill and the cyclist is not going ‘too furiously’ ” –
Far too many unspecified and dependant variables – if, if,if …….
If your auntie had a pair of etc. etc. ………….. 😉
*spots Clive chortling in the corner*
I think the amount of dog poo might be the determining factor in giving the cyclist a bit of an edge.
Trev @ 128, well unfortunately that is how Physics works, by simplifying the problem into basic principles. In that sense all of modern physics is hopelessly flawed because not always all variables can be taken into account. You will essentially arrive at equations that cannot be solved. 🙂
Even the most complex of domains in Physics make simplifying assumptions, and lot of the time the trick is in choosing the right simplification.
Take something as basic as a two-particle collision in the QED world — with QCD and quarks things get much more complicated — and there too the estimates about trajectory and new particle generation etc. are predicted by ignoring the higher order Feynman diagrams.
Or at a large scale of cosmology where lot of simplifying assumptions are made about small-scale curvature of the space-time topology etc.
I stand by my analysis that to treat the problem from the perspectives of basic principles of physics that is the first simplified order of solution and would be true for majority of the hills and for majority of cycles under majority of conditions.
🙂
Faustus,
Following your explanation, I’m feeling very reassured that I was no good at Physics at school. I also found it to be full of equations that couldn’t be solved.
Btw, “quark” is a kind of German cheese spread. This would definitely affect your two particle collision.
I was quite good at cosmology though. I used to get a star for my homework every week. 😉
I think Tabs may be onto something with the dog poo. 😉
this might be of interest to all you bikers out there:
http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2005/Projects/S0205.pdf
🙂 made in california.
Trev @ 131: 🙂
“I used to get a star from my homework every week” … And given the generosity of your ‘spirit’ , I am assuming you used to donate each star to your personal ‘black hole’ of information. 🙂
DogShit is indeed the colloquial name of the String vibrations in supersymmetric 11-dimensional M-theory. 🙂
Alan Hansen reckons we’ve missed a variable regarding the runner and the cyclist. What if it’s a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?
Heh Lars.
If it was in my old neighbourhood, the cyclist would be on his arse and the runner would have a new bike.
Various hehs above. I was reading the prospective answers to the riddle until it escalated into a Physics class, there is a reason I never managed a full day in science class.
The Spanish under-21 team is filled with some fabulous footballers. I hope Dick Law is there, has a stiffy and a pen and is planning to talk to some agents.
Heh Lars @134
Bath@138
I’d be a bit worried if a man called Dick has a stiffy watching young Spanish footballers. But I know what you mean
TTG, OO-EEER.
I’ll still say the bike gives a mechanical advantage under normal conditions but I will also sit my lazy ass down and join all those on the sideline and drink a beer.
Cheers all.
Remarkable.
Is there another football blog out there doing physics theory in the drinks, I mean comments?
I suspect I know the answer.
Barking 😉
The answer to that particular riddle in Holland would be….
What’s a hill?
Funny article on Arsenal, Arsene and transfers http://www.7amkickoff.com/2013/how-to-write-the-story-that-higuain-is-not-coming-to-arsenal/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+7amkickoff+%287amkickoff%29
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8772182/It-s-Official-Benteke-Is-Better-Than-50m-Falcao…
Heh@136 🙂
Lars @134 – 🙂
Now I’m confused with my Laws of Physics.
Was it Dick Law sitting in the bath with a stiffy, who cried “Eureka !” – or was that something else ?
Trev,
Jolting news. I believe that’s Dick’s third law of porn: with water and electricity a stiffy can be either created or destroyed. 😉
NorCal – 😆
Bet you always dreamed of this, Holic. 🙂
Btw NorCal,
Do you know whether, once Dick Law’s stiffy has been created, it can be displaced.
Ah, Eureka ! That’s what I was thinking about.
(That refers to the displacement – not Dick Law’s stiffy)
Did you have to start this, bath ? 😉
Did he get the stiffy from getting an eye full of Schrödinger’s pussy. 😕
Does his BMI change depending on his state of excitability?
Lord, why didn’t I think of these questions when I was in physics?
Sorry Holic. 😉
I think Dick’s Law is a phallusy. 😉
So we’ve now gone from discussing physics to knob gags in no time at all – you can’t say we don’t discuss a wide range of topics in this bar 🙂
Good grief 😉
I blame bath. 🙂
Trev,
You were in the bath this whole time? Now I feel dirty. 😉
har har…
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/fake-transfer-rumor-cesc-fabregas-found-bordeaux-dna-203925808.html
lars, ha at 157, and h2h, trev, norcal at just about everything past 136.
Good nite to all you wonderful peeps ! Witty and clever, good looking too 😉
The cheapskateness begins again.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfers-marouane-fellaini-fancies-1949007
A cynic shouldn’t believe everything he reads in the mirror. It sells papers, acts to confirm what people think they believe and causes a reaction.
I see they succeeded.
It is what it is.
Arsenal till I die.
Cheers all.
Oh and I’m not sure I want Fellaini for 22-24 mil.
Have we signed anyone yet?
Norcal, I’m not sure he is worth that amount but I won’t mind us signing him even for more than said amount.
Fair enough Cent. I think he would add something to our squad and may turn out to be an excellent signing ( if we do). But just because we have some more dosh to spend in the next few years we still need to be a bit prudent with it and not stretch just to sign somebody. We will never be a team that can overspend and then not have repercussions down the road. We still need to get appropriate value.
Capoue or Bender may offer us the same type of player for less. All just speculation and football manager stuff. IMO.
This could be the answer to the bicycle problem.
http://blouinnews.com/60352/story/czech-firms-demonstrate-electric-flying-bicycle
Cheers Norcal. I also think there are quite a lot of players out there who can improve us significantly. It’s all speculation, as you rightly pointed out, I’m already tired of the silly season and I trust the people in charge to make the right decisions at the end of the day so I will just kick back, relax and watch it all play out. That doesn’t mean I won’t do the odd player ‘analysis’ from time to time though, I just won’t really be disappointed if we don’t get a particular player or the other.
Redtruth, Are we in for Mathieu Prudent, the Martinque international defender who plays in one of the lower Swiss divisions? Typical under-the-radar Wenger signing.
Just wanted to share a strong conviction that came upon me today. Moaninho (not to mention MNB) must be in desperate need of this:
http://www.collegehumor.com/picture/3326645/boudreauxs-butt-paste
Uh oh. I’m going on a bike trip in a few days. I’ll have to study up on my physics it seems. 🙂
8ball,
If its a long ride you might need some of that Boudreauxs.
We actually used that for my kids when they had diaper rash. Worked pretty well.
I am truly shocked by what a metaphor spawned. 😛
Don’t panic! Myles Palmer says Fellaini will sign a five year contract. I assume he means with us. That’s alright then phew!
He also says Darren Dein says Fabregas is going nowhere. But Myles didn’t you assure us that he was sorted on Saturday? Oh well in the new world of scriptwriting which he inhabits maybe he just describes himself as a writer of fantasy.
What this all proves to me is that nobody has a scooby about what is going on. Especially Myles Palmer. Or the Daily Star ( or the Express which prints the Star stories the following day) .Or all the other websites which rehash these stories at periodic intervals. It’s a wasteland of nothingness.
Except for the gripping yarn on Arseblog – second instalment today.
Much better than the transfer window.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22567526
One for abb
163 Cynic.
If you truly believe that crap then you are doing a diservice to your monniker.
Despite widespread talk of an Arsenal approach for permission to speak to Fellaini, the Mirror understands the Toffees are yet to receive a single inquiry about him.
That tells you all you really shoukld need to know.
Firstly; “widespread talk”
Ah, so lots of people are saying it, most probably The Mirror themselves and Twatterers, so it must be true
Next; “the Mirror understands…..”
From where? From whom? No quote, no source.
And the icing on the cake; “the Toffees are yet to receive a single inquiry about him”
If there’s been no inquiry then how can there be interest? If there’s been no inquiry then no price would of been quoted, if no price has been quoted then how could you possibly have been reluctant to pay said price?
This is a total fabrication.
Fellaini, 25, has told friends he would love a switch to London, where he could easily reach his Brussels birthplace via the Eurostar.’
heh.
H2H: understand?
The Mirror reflects, surely. 😉
H2H 179 agree 100 % – well riposted.
Ollie 180 only if he looks like signing for Chel$ki can you tell him what
Eurostar s really like 😉
The Mirror lies Ollie……
Makes me look a lot older and fatter then I believe myself to be. 🙂
haha, good point, Ups! 🙂
heh H2H, I hace the same problem 🙁
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Fellaini is ‘good but not 23m good’?
Meh!!
Now, I don’t really mind that it’s silly season, we all knew it was coming, but, isn’t there something in the agreement that we all made with God that if there is no footy to entertain us then at least the sun would shine?
I’m sitting here in the bar looking on to my terrace (beer garden) watching the chairs being dragged in all directions by gale force winds while it’s absolutly bucketing it down.
I repeat… Meh!!
Cam.
Given his age, PL experience and amount of products he’d need to keep up his hair, I’d say that was probably the going rate for a player like him.
Take away the PL experience and he’d of cost a lot less.
H2H, fair enough, can we not negotiate a special clause that allows us to only buy him VO5 rather than having to splash on the posh stuff like Charles Worthington or Schwarzkopf?
I say get a pair of clippers and go to town on that monstrousity.
I see he’s dyed his Barnet blond;
http://globaltoynews.typepad.com/.a/6a0133ec87bd6d970b01543483c9e1970c-320wi
In other weather report, it’s 29degrees celsius over here in my room, could rise up to 32degrees if I go outside.
I’ll have 40° outside, sub-20°C inside for a while….
Ollie, you will soon be off to Qatar, right? I’m sure you will get all the sun need there but for now…
The weather will make no difference to me tonight, I’m going to an antenatal class.
I was thinking thank god she’s going to be born in summer so none of this interferes with next season.
Then I remembered my wife’s words: “The funniest thing about you having a daughter is that while your mates (who have had boys) take them to the football, you’ll be watching primary school ballet.”
Nurse!
Camberwell, Congrats on the baby, if you start working on making her a goonerette early, you might not have to worry about ballet classes.
Good luck, Camberwell!!
Cam,
Take her to football anyway. I do.
She does all the ballet and modern dance, but she still loves going to The Arsenal. 😉
Bet you cry at the dance show, too. 😉
Gooooooooaallllll
Good luck Cam.
Well in Ollie.
Well in Cynic.
Trev,
You ol softie. Those are tears of pride, right?
Ollie, woah, I mean well in Cynic.
My glasses just broke (frame snaped) These reserve reading glasses are obviously not fit for task 🙁
There’s a MNB-style person on Twitter, possibly even worse, heh.
heh, I was wondering what drugs you were on, H2H.
Guess there’s been a recount though as I was 198 now 197 and can only say ‘well in H2H’ now!
Well in Cynic.
Ollie?
I never imagined you had a cynical bone in your body, sunshine. 🙂
Heh. 😎
(I’ve now switched to my sunglasses, look a bit of a prat, but at least I can see)
Ah a recount.
Well in H2H…..at least until the next recount.
Camberwell, Miss B is an even more committed attender of games than Master B. I didn’t even get her conditioned early on but I’m sure an Arsenal babygrow and teddy won’t harm her.
Looks like I backdoored the glory spot. ( for now).
Eat your heart out Wolfie!
Well in H2H!
Cheers Cent, Ollie, Trev, fingers crossed for a Gooner.
*Scribbles idea for new Arsenal merchandise ad*
Scene: the delivery room of an identikit hospital.
Over the shoulders of the doctors and nurses, two bare knees can be glimpsed. The deep breathing and straining voice of the new mother are heard, while the expectant father, anxious look on face, paces up and down.
Presently, a hearty newborn’s scream pierces the air and the medical team begin to celebrate.
[Cut to the eyes of the doctor. She looks concerned. The father looks at her, his face a picture of anxiety. His eyes search the doctor’s face for a sign of reassurance.]
The doctor removes her mask.
DOCTOR:
It’s a boy, Mr Smith. But I’m afraid there’s a slight complication.
[The mother reaches out and finds her partner’s hand.]
DOCTOR:
He’s perfectly healthy…
[The couple’s faces register relief as they look at each other, then back to the doctor, still mildly anxious.]
DOCTOR:
…I’m not sure how to put this to you, but, umm…he’s got Barca DNA.
Both parents’ faces drop. Fade out.
[Cut to shot of baby at home in an Arsenal top, drinking from an Arsenal bottle, watched over by smiling parents.]
Slogan fades in: The Armoury. It’s never too early to be a Gooner.
NorCal, You “backdoored the glory spot”?? 😀
Heh, does that sound as rude to Americans as it does to Brits?
Shout out as well to H2H for the wishes and Bath for the reassurance.
Camberwell, good stuff @ 211.
All innuendo is purely intentional. Or is it? 😉
cam (congrats on the lassie, kids are great!), yeah, that does sound a bit rude. but, norcal appears to be a religious user of bt8b’s boudreaux’s, referenced above…so it’s not a surprise 🙂
Scruz,
Well I never…….well there was…never mind.
8)
£23m seems about right for Fellaini. He cost them £17m when they bought him 5 years ago – given we’re talking footballers here, inflation alone probably makes him a £23m player now.
It’s starting to feel more and more like Higuain and Fellaini are the two we’re genuinely after, but we’re prepared to play the long game with both.
Whatever our strategy is for this window, I really hope it works. Ivan has really raised expectation levels, which were already pretty high.
N7,
So based on what we spent on Arshavin 5 years ago he is worth …… Free? Haha. Only joking….. Well not really. Anyway, I just have a hard time with these valuations. RVPrick 25M , Santi 12, Fellaini 23 , and now today El Shrhaircut 37M. Just crazy. I know they are all different circumstances but it is still crazy.
Well, football money is clearly barking mad.
Santi – we got him at an absolute knock-down price that I don’t think anyone could quite believe at the time; probably not the last such giveaway Malaga will be forced into. Hard to use him as a comparator.
El Sharaawy – bit of a strange one. Smashed in goals for fun in the first half of last season and looked a £40m player. Then went very, very quiet. Loses £10m in value for his stupid barnet.
RVP – Old and one year left on the deal. If he’d been 4 years younger and on a long deal he’d have been a £40-50m player, even with our negotiating skills.
Think of it this way: if Arsenal had bought a player for £17m 5 years ago, he’d grown in ability a fair bit since, he was on a reasonably long deal, he’d been our top scorer last season and he was still under 25, how much would you realistically want for him? £23m seems pretty much on the nose.
I guess the question to determine his proper value is: who else could Arsene get in this position for the same money?
N7,
I agree with all you wrote. Like I said each of my examples had different reasons. I agree most with the ” Barking ” statement.
As for alternatives I offer Bender or Capoue. Neither has the PL premium added to their price tag.
Cheers
Nice script Camberwell @211.
I should add my congratulations and best wishes.
The correct environment and subtle messages will bring out the correct affiliation.
It’s truly one of the greatest parental responsibilities imho. 🙂
And a source of relief and pride when you succeed.
Though after a season like this one, they don’t thank you for it!
Master B’s wife once said to me, “When Arsenal lose, the whole wekend is ruined because he’s going around like a bear with a sore head. I blame you for that!” I had to accept total guilt.
No point trying to understand football finances.
Footballers, like anything else, are worth only, or all of, what somebody else will pay for them.
There may be all sorts of reasons and circumstances for that, but that is the proverbial bottom line.
True, Trev, but if you ask Wolfie it’s all about the proverbial bottom.
Good call NorCal – both quality players from what I’ve seen.
If Wenger does go for Fellaini my guess would be that part of the draw will be his ability to play in any of the three midfield slots. Gives extra tactical options and will make rotation easier: he needs to figure out how to make sure Arteta and Ramsey both get enough game time next season if he buys a DM.
Totally agree that prices are mad. I’m sure Fernandinho is a player, but when I’ve watched him in the past I’ve never thought “ah yes, definite £30m man”.
Ah, back to the sophomoric genitalia/sex jokes?
Something I can really get a piece of. I don’t mind getting stuck in!
Be a love and hand me my coat. 😉
N7,
Agreed on all accounts. Arteta really needed a little more rest this year. Our midfield combinations will be interesting choices next year if we add Fellanini or any other midfielder. ( Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsey, Ox, Rosicky, Santi, (Diaby), and a new Lad) when and where do they all get game time. Some can play on the wing opposite Theo but still a lot of bodies. That means Coquelin, Frimpong may never get a game.
Of note it appears that the clean out of the youth squad is slowly being added to. I hope AW is not devoting too much of his time on the youth signings right now.
Also, anyone know what our Homegrown numbers and quota are doing right now. Do we need to add to that pool before the season starts?
Thanks.
My Homegrown quota is fine, thank you. 😎
It is not Arsene Wenger’s job to make sure that anyone gets “enough game time”.
It is his job to get the best possible team we can manage out on the pitch for every game, with the proviso that players get enough recovery time – or even rest – to keep them fit.
The best players will rise to the top, and they are the ones who should be playing. If they can’t handle the competition, they are at the wrong club.
If they all accept that, you never know, we might actually start winning something.
H2H – heh !
@Trev
One of the things I thing Arsene needs to do better if we’re ever going to win the league again is rotate the squad. We can’t just keep ploughing the same 15 lads into the ground.
So, when I say “make sure arteta gets enough game time”, I don’t mean play him (or anyone else) out of some sort of sympathy or misguided loyalty. I mean keep players involved and on form so that when we need to call on them they’re ready to contribute.
I would hope that this season, for the first time in years, there will be few if any passengers in the squad.
Yes Trev but all players need adequate game time to get the best out of them. Players’ form is not consistent and without adequate game experience and working on the field with their teammates in actual games then it is tough to show consistency. Our 10 game unbeaten streak to end the season also very neatly corresponded to us only having to concern ourselves with the league. We could thus play a select few individuals that pulled us over the hump. To compete in all 4 competitions we will need to rest and rotate and that means that
Oh hell, your right. 😉
Well said Trev.
I’ve said before that I’d welcome a player like Fellaini to the club, as far as I can tell he’s pretty adept in a number of positions, he knows the PL, is a big strong lad and he nutted Shawcross. But I’m not going to get too excited because the more I read on the subject, the more I think it’s all garbage.
H2H,
I was just checking. Didn’t want anyone’s Homegrown status to drop during the silly season.
Agreed N7,
That’s why I said they need enough rest or recovery time to keep them fit, i.e. a degree of rotation, which will doubtless be in the two domestic cup competitions.
But, ‘red zones’ aside, that is all.
Otherwise, the team should be made up of those whose form most deserves it.
Homegrown players in the current squad:
Szczesny
Gibbs
Jenkinson
Wilshere
Walcott
The Ox
Ramsey
Coquelin
Diaby
Mannone
Thanks Lars,
So 8 need to be part of the 25 man squad, right? So if Coquelin and Mannone leave we are down to 8 and that includes Diaby. Interesting.
Rotation is all well and good in theory, but you have to have players who are of equal quality to come in and do a job, I mean, would you want to rotate Mertecielny with Djourlacci?
Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I still believe you shouldn’t change too much in a winning team.
NorCal, that is correct. Eight players need to be either homegrown or under-21’s.
I’m with you there H2H.
Such a ‘shame’ that the Squirtersacker partnership is no longer a possibility.
I’d love to claim the credit for that name but Arseblogger has to get it. 😉
🙂
🙂
We do still have the possibility of CoqArt –
I bet that’s one tattoo not many of them have got. 😉
Don’t forget that charming town of Coqshere or the young up and comer RamCoq. 😉
I still blame Bath.
Or Ramcoq?
🙂
Great minds NorCal, great minds….
CoqPong – ooh, err. 😉
Lars, btw, you missed Frimpong from the homegrowns i think.
See H, it WAS Bath’s fault!
Heh, I just lit the blue touchpaper and retired.
Makes sense Trev.
Bloody hell, all this talking about football without the football being on is a bit dry.
How much longer until the season starts again?!
Fixtures are out next Wednesday N7.
If we sign Fellaini we can have MaCoq in midfield sometimes.
66 days but who’s counting?!
I’m looking forward to the fixture list so I can plan this years trip. Next week, right?
I still blame bath. 😉
Well. I see I should have just waited. Thanks Trev.
Trev, I knew there was one I had forgotten. Cheers.
(and if we want to pick nits, Bendtner is also HG but he probably has less of a chance of being in the squad when the new season starts than I do.)
Cent,
If we sign Fellaini and Tiote, we could have FellaTio in midfield. 😉
Heh, Trev……worth signing those two just for that, even tho Fellaini is not worth £23m and Tiote is no better than Frimpong imho..
Trev wins!
Bath, ‘Tiote is no better than Frimpong imho’ spot on! I see quite a few people suggesting we should Tiote as our beast in midfield and what you just said is exactly what comes to my mind.
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