A Brief View On A Bad Day
Dec 14th, 2013 by 'holic
There is no escaping the reality of a 6-3 defeat. The ‘no longer the best defence in the league’ were horribly exposed and unprepared for the storm that they faced against a very good Manchester City side. Make no mistake, some poor officiating did not help our cause, but the hosts were good value for the three points.
Afterwards Arsene offered the view that Everton and Southampton were as good as City but I have to say the evidence of today suggested otherwise. The number of goals they are starting to rack up at home is also starting to look more than a little impressive. Seven against Norwich, six past both North London clubs, four versus Manchester United and Newcastle. Their inconsistency on the road is baffling when you look at what they are doing at home.
Yet there are some positives that came out of the heavy defeat. Theo Walcott returned after stomach surgery and scored two superb goals. That we scored three (and had two dubiously ruled out for offside) in City’s back garden offers hope of better days to come when the defence and midfield get it right again, as surely they will.
There really isn’t too much else to say. City were an awesome attacking force today, and we had another bad day at the office against a title rival. Weary legs have nine days to recover, although that might not be enough for the gaping wound in Laurent Koscielny’s knee to repair sufficiently. Then another big, big match. A result against Chelsea is required to recapture the belief and confidence of and in the squad.
Lest we forget, Arsenal still head the Premier League table tonight.
319 Responses to “A Brief View On A Bad Day”
1st
Usual considerations in the wake of a poor result please all.
Don’t use post numbers as a reference because they may be a moving feast.
Thanks.
Looks like Kos would be ready for Chelsea. That is a good news, maybe our most important player this year.
Shambolic defensively at times and really shot ourselves in the foot with some awful giveaways. City are one hell of a side going forward, I have to agree with the pundits that the title is theirs to lose.
Top 4.
Bad but quite expectable really.
Not as bad as some are making out.
” Afterwards Arsene offered the view that Everton and
Southampton were as good as City but I have to say the
evidence of today suggested otherwise. ”
Very obvious, clear observation maestro.
” Yet there are some positives that came out of the heavy
defeat. Theo Walcott returned after stomach surgery and
scored two superb goals. ”
The only impressive thing all day. Long may it continue.
Games like this makes me rue our draw vs Everton. I didn’t watch the game, heavily busy somewhere else. But from the news all over, bar the ref, we were poor, especially after Kos injury.
I hope we beat the Chavs, we’ve got no option now.
Nice one Guv.
City were indeed the better, stronger team, but what does anyone expect after spending about a gazillion quid.
Just got to dust ourselves off, hope that Kos’ gash is not too bad and that LJW isn’t banned for too long for flipping the bird at the Middle(finger)Eastlands crowd.
We are top of the league, say…..
Poor performance today. On to the next one.
Aston Villa game part 2 but against a much better team, hence the result.
Chelsea match is how we measure this team and we need our home form to be similar to MCFC’s – for our away form will be miles better. Walcott has to warmed by his day’s work and perhaps we rushed Sagna back simply because he’s Sagna?
Full steam ahead and top of the league, it’s not going to take much more than 80-83 points to win it this season so the task ahead is apparent 47 more points from 22 matches – so something like W 14 D 5 L 3….we’re very capable of that.
The only thing that concerns me is after going 4 months without conceding late goals we’re suddenly doing it often, but tired legs and circumstances are probably the reason.
Theo’s second was a peach. It looked like it came right out of “The King’s Finishing Book”.
Impressively balanced piece Guv’nor. My rant in the previous bar arrived just after the chevrons this time; can’t really encourage anyone to go look at it.
Somehow, I’m not really that upset by today’s result and what I’ve read about it. Those pro-delusional pills I’ve been popping sure seem to be having the desired effect.
COYG
Lurky @3 (can’t see 1& 2 getting the bullet), I really don’t think Kos will be fit for the Chavski game with a deep gash on his knee. No chance of adequate healing by then and major risk of opening it up with a minor impact.
On the brighter side, TV5 was no worse than the rest of the defence when he came on and we have 9 days to drill the defence up to par again.
The poor officiating certainly did not help but as you say it could not mask our lack of cohesiveness, I thought other than his assist Mesut had a very poor day and never played near his level, I thought we were poor defensively and surprisingly weak in our passing going forward with too many decisive mislaid passes costing us.
However the positive thing is that we did get three at Manchester City, we should have got a lot more but the officials were also having an off day, Our poor old reliable HFB just needs the rest this break will give him and as long as we can bounce back against Chelsea I still think we can win the title.
Not every team will be able to throw that quality of front line against us and they certainly will not be able to contain us if we play at our best which we surely will.
I liked seeing Per roaring his displeasure at Mesut, as fellow countrymen they are probably the only ones who can justify such a errr rapport, I want our boys to be hurt by such a loss and such poor matchmaking by the officials, however as much as I agree with Jack at the moment his frustration boiled over…….it was silly and he will now probably pay a price for it.
Onwards and upwards fellow gunners, things will almost certainly get better after we think about just how close we were today.
Judged on their home form alone, it is absolutely City’s title to lose.
Thank god half their games are away.
It’s still our title to lose. We’ll beat Chel$ki a week on Monday (How do I know? – me and my lucky bunnet will be there and we’re an unbeatable combination on dark wet Monday nights :-)). AND we’ll thump Citeh and Manure when they come to London. Put your money on both and big smiles on your faces in anticipation.
Two goals chalked off for off-side, and that following two earlier equally poor offside decisions by the far side lino? Come on! And then, a cast iron penalty for hands by Zabaleta when the ball was going straight to Theo for his hat trick. And who saw Milner drag his foot over Woj’s foot as the latter did everything he could to pull his foot away?
We’re Arsenal at their best? No, a long way off. Passing accuracy, our usual cornerstone, departed us on the day and there were some tired legs out there which contributed to the “technical errors” that the boss mentioned. We’ll be well rested for the Chavs. See you there, Holics.
N7 @14
do you believe that City poor away form will continue? I don’t. They won at Munich couple of days ago. Without Aguero and Toure. They will lose points of course, but they will smash many opponents as visitors just like they are at home. Because they are a damn good balanced side and will get only better.
However, it must not be our job to concentrate on them. At least not, before we meet again. We must concentrate on our performances.
Reading some of the comments on twitter looks like we are the worst team in the league.
Reading some of the comments in this bar looks like we’ve won the game or at least were the better of the two sides, and we could have won if only the ref wasn’t that bad.
The truth is somewhere in between. I think they were the better side by far this time. Not in general, just as the PL table suggests.
And we, we are not a bad side. In fact we are a quite good one. But not that good as many of us like to think. We got so many things to do better.
In days like this we should stay calm and not criticize the team, I agree. But just as we like to glorify the players and the manager when the things are going good, we may comment on the things that went wrong when we lost.
Not for the reason that we might change something- just as we don’t change anything when we glorify them, but out of our love for the club and desire things to become better.
Saying all that, Arsene has done many good subs this year and lot of them were with a desired impact. He made a good one today, by taking off Giroud who looks out of fuel for a couple of games now.
However keeping Wilshere the full 90 minutes and taking Flamini off, was one of the worst decisions I’ve ever, ever witnessed from him.
This is a good team, Arsene knows that. I want to believe that he also knows that we are good striker short of being a real menace.
Ozil apologizes to the away fans
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbd_Jb-CEAAUC9B.jpg:large
Lurks @16
I saw enough today to make me believe City will continue to drop points away.
We were at their ground, where they are imperious, on insufficient rest. Yes, they impressed coming forward, but they looked vulnerable at the back. Clichy is still cliche. I was not impressed with Dimichelis. The keeper is poor. And I don’t rate Fernandinho as a holding midfielder – he looks a box to box man to me, which means there is space in behind him.
We had a bad day at the back, granted, but if we’d taken our chances and got the decisions we could have had seven or eight goals. In their back yard.
Away from home they’ve won only twice. That’s not just bad luck. They play a different formation (451), they don’t flood forward and they’re not tight enough to keep regular clean sheets.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m not dismissing them. But they’re not the machine some are now making out, and I do believe they’ll continue to drop points. They smashed Utd and then dropped points. They smashed Spurs and then dropped points.
We need to focus on us. Get back to defending properly, keep clean sheets and stay solid. In the years when we played great but couldn’t close out games we were repeatedly told “the table doesn’t lie”. It was true then, it’s still true now – we’re ahead of them and we’ve been to Manchester twice. We have nothing to fear.
Sorry – “clichy is still clichy”. Stupid auto-correct
I love the bonding that goes on here. Cheers one right up after a very difficult day. I like Holic wish Wenger had given City a bit more credit ;they are in a different class to Southampton and better than a good Everton side. I think like most managers he plays games in his public utterances. Pellegrini tried to suggest we scored with almost our only chances when we came close five or six times ( including legit goals disallowed by an incompetent linesman). I was also very wound up by the prats commentating on BT especially David James and Michael Owen. It was a Citeh wankfest and rather banal in its analysis.
I thought today we set the side up wrongly given the way Citeh play ( their second goal was a good example.)Our full- backs had little support in front of them and got exposed and Flamini had his worst game for us. But going forward we were excellent. Theo gave us many more options. If we are compact I think Giroud lacks support and he isn’t quick enough to break on his own . With Theo he has support but we are more vulnerable to being attacked out wide. Today Rambo ran his legs off but we needed more in midfield. Ozil made some great contributions but he doesn’t dominate games he changes them and we needed a better ( much) performance than LJW gave.
Trev’s medical bulletin will be helpful but I guess it depends on how quickly Koscielny heals. I thought TV5 did admirably in tough circumstances and won’t let us down but I now feel for the first time we need someone with more range than Arteta or Flamini if they are available in January given that Wilshere is showing worrying signs of going backwards. We also really do need a box striker
But we are top,we play great football and this team care and gave everything they could.
TTG @20
That’s a very fair summary, strengths and weaknesses alike.
Lurky, you made very good points above. On the Flamini change I understand why Arsene made it, Flamini covered the most ground of all players on the pitch in Naples in midweek and considering the team had almost no time for recovery sessions before today’s game and he was well on his way to covering the most ground again it is not inconceivable that Flamini would be in the dreaded red zone. Wilshere on the other hand played no part in Naples and was supposed to be fresher, too bad he couldn’t make it count.
I think the lack of recovery time is also responsible for Cazorla, Rosicky and Arteta not playing today. Better to have them fully fit for Chelsea than risk losing them to long-term injuries trying to win today’s game.
N7
agree re Fernandinho, he is a box to box more than dm, and agree that City have more porous defense this year.
However, the reason for that is not because they have poor defenders (they are one of the best defenses in the league for a couple of seasons), but because Pelegrini always tends to play for a goal more.
TTG,
agree with everything you said. Not a big fan of Theo, but today he was our best player. Very confident performance. He must work on defensive side of his game, because I still feel he unbalances us.
@ Lurky
Not all the defenders are bad, of course. Kompany and Zabaleta are superb. But look at the two disallowed goals we scored today. In both cases demichelis plays us onside and is five yards behind his defensive line. He is fortunate the Lino was inept. Pantilimon, meanwhile, made one good stop from Jack but otherwise watched the first goal go in and flapped at high balls all day. It’s an uneven defence and it can be got at, as it was today.
Cent, agree with you, I understood why Arsene made those changes.
The problem for me is that, sometimes he just looks into numbers/ minutes-played too much and not at the actual situation on the pitch.
Because on the pitch it looked like Wilshere and not Flamini have played 90 minutes at Naples on Wednesday and 90 more for his school team yesterday. He was that slow and unfocused.
One word ‘RIPPED’ it’s our title to lose now, no one comes close to us in this tin pot league I’m bored of singing easy,easy,easy!
N7,
Demichelis is shyt poor. Nastasic is their first choice defender and I would give him a compliment by saying that he reminds me of Kos a lot. Of course Kos is better.
Anyway, Pelegrini is still trying to teach them playing high defensive line, because it suits his attacking and high pressing system. Believe me, once they fully understand his (new for them) methods they will be a quite dangerous side away from home too.
Speaking of Pelegrini methods and high defensive line, do you think we are going to get this much chances and shots vs Chelsea? I don’t. Because they will try to beat us the only way Maureen knows.
Compress the middle, live us the flanks, hit us on counter or corner.
And like it or not, he is successful at it.
What will Arsene’s answer be and will he come up with something better than the previous meetings is what bothers me.
Good for you @26. Sounds a lot like last season’s FA cup final.
28 yes cup final do you know what one is?
@Lurky
That’s the million dollar question. As ever, first goal will be vital.
Yep. It’s a massive game at the end of the season where a bunch of Mancs who’ve spent a billion quid of someone else’s dough get humiliatingly beaten by a soon to be relegated rugby club while the nation points and laughs.
Do you need a map of where Manchester is?
And that’s all the acknowledgement you’re getting from me. Have a merry Xmas.
Don’t waste your time on the Glory (hole) Hunter.
A real city fan wouldnt act like that, he was probably a Yanited plastic not so long ago.
Sometimes things just add up to a shit storm. Today was one such day.
We were clearly still knackered (it’s no coincidence that the players whose legs didn’t go after about 65 mins were Aaron, Theo, Sagna and Jack – as shit a game as he had) and in hindsight, Flamini should not have started. But hindsight is one thing, I thought Arsene got the starting eleven spot on before the game so I am not going to moan about it now.
It just wasn’t our day. But I can’t help but feel that this game was a disgrace to the Premier League. How can it be that a game like this is allowed to be played so close to a CL away game? We were never on a level playing field. And not that I can say with any conviction that it would have changed the winner (it probably wouldn’t), but the refs were atrocious. The corner from which they scored their first should never have been given, Negredo was miles offside and should have been flagged off. We had two perfectly good attacks which may or may not have yielded goals waved off in the first half, at least one good goal ruled out, the clearest handball penalty not given et ceterea et fucking cetera. Fernandino got away with three fouls in 20 minutes and kicking the ball away when we tried to take a quick throw but no yellow. And so on. Do I think the refs were on the take? Hell no. They just had an awful, awful game. That happens and usually that evens out over the course of a season so most likely in another game we’ll benefit from shit decisions.
Jack will, if the FA follow their own rules, sit out one game. If the ref had seen that it would have been a straight red for unsportsmanlike conduct, which is one game and nothing more. But knowing the FA, he’ll probably get five matches and eight months of confinment in the London Dungeons where he’ll be forced to work as a tour guide for drunken Norwegians. (because the FA still hasn’t got over Norway beating England at Wembley in 1980 or whatever it was – “can you hear me? Can you hear me? Your boys took one hell of a beating!”)
Ah, fuck it. Time to try to sober up a bit and then get some sleep. No way am I staying up for MOTD tonight. I am too tired, too knackered and too exhausted. Oh, and did I mentioned I am a bit worn out? Think I may have forgotten that. And besides, what’s the point of feeling sorry for yourself if no one knows how desperately sad and worthy of sympathy your situation is? Yeah, didn’t think of that, did you now? Ok, I may have exaggerated this whole situation but hey, thinking “fucking hell, what a self-centered and attention-seeking twat he’s become” took your mind off thinking about the match, didn’t it?
🙂
Lurky – Mourinho hasn’t been so successful with that of late, they’ve shipped seven goals this month against Stoke and Sunderland. Chelsea may still be a tough team but it’s not 2005 any more.
Ha ha we knew where we come from to what we’ve got now Manchester does get miracles dosh dosh dosh and by the way I’m in Newton Heath the heart of gods country
33 act like what?????
Nice one Lars.
And indeed, I won’t be watching MotD either, every cloud and all that… 😉
33 if you know what a real city fan acts like you must tell me, as you don’t come much blue-er than me!
@39
We ain’t coming to Manchester again this year fella.
And yet, top of the league 😉
Friends, please, no post numbers, thanks.
Shyte result a great write up Holic!
Nothing to add as I really didn’t watch the game. Defeat always tastes horrible and we all feel like end of the world. But I’m with BTM we will bounce back no doubt!
Come on Arsenal!
Just reading here having not been around all day.
Back later but in the meantime –
cock-kneeblue,
That is such a clever name – but you don’t need the last two thirds of it.
Just sayin. 😉
well done, ‘holic, as always. really not much to say. i’m sick as a dog with a cold, i couldn’t wake up at 5 am for this one. watching it on delay was painful enough. their third goal was the deal breaker, the end of the game fireworks really tired legs.
still top of the league near to midpoint december, and with a great squad. the 9 days rest will do us a world of good.
Well played, Holic.
Haven’t seen anything yet so keeping my council.
Can’t imagine there’ll be anything to add though.
And no need to either.
A bad but not surprising result in the circumstances.
I think ‘bath’ already said that.
Cheers fellas.
Thanks Trev.
Hard day.
As a long time gooner and proud supporter Of the arsenal, i find myself in an unfamiliar state of mind.
After previous losses in our never ending trophyless period of the last 8 seasons, I would normally feel shit right about now after a big loss that i wanted our team to win so bad. I should be gutted and i should be on le grove or some other arsenal fan site i admit to previously enjoying for that very reason, venting my bile at arsene and all things arsenal and following others arsenal doom and gloom.
But for the first time after a heavy loss i have sat patiently (even though still steaming a bit inside) and read each and every goonerholic post match drink and some of these above and find myself not as pissed as expected.
Some half glass full and some half glass a bit more on the empty side.
But, thundertiny said it very well earlier, i am thankful for the bonding that goes on within this site, especially after a big loss like this, because other wise i would have come on here today as angry as i started my first ever “angry at all things arsenal” post on goonerholic this season, angry as hell after the villa loss.
Maybe i finally have realised what it is like to not be a “fair weather” arsenal supporter (after all these years)’.
That is true “holic type growth” folks.
Today i will wear simply wear my arsenal Ozil home jersey with pride.
Thanks guys and gals, just thanks.
@ Aussie
That’s one of the best posts I’ve ever read on here.
Have a drink on my tab.
Aussie
No worries mate!
Any time fella, anytime! 🙂
Don’t feed the troll either 😀
N7
I think Lars card is behind the bar again.
I have never felt so low this season as I felt during that 90mins today. Some were so elementary and timid in their play esp. Wilshere. I don’t understand the explanations given as to why Flamini was subbed. Thought we were spose to take games one at a time. Why being afraid of burn out. He has a whole week ahead, right?. Where were all the 30yr old MFs we have?. Would they have been so skittish (help me H2H) to play at the etihad?. Why arsenal still so predictable?. Predictability is the answer I can give to why the fans are not that pissed to lose today. We half expected it didn’t we?. As we also half expect to lose next week. And don’t even get me started on Ollie G. Oooh Nah nah nah nah nah.
But there’s hope!. Smaller teams will think we’re vulnerable now I guess. That we’re now at our lowest. They will open up more to play us and that’s when we’ll start striking again starting from West Ham. By Jan ending, we would av left them behind again, I mean our title rivals. That is only if we show character after these trying moments. I won’t be worried if we lose to Chelsea. It would just be 1point yh?. Smalls. I still hope we get a striker {world class (any available)} by Jan. Just that one signing!. Then I won’t care if we need to out score our opponents to win. Come on You Gunners!!!. Fret not. Cos the enemy we faced today, we face no more. Not for a long time anyways (he he).
I hope my moans are not “puke inducing” cos I did it as little as I could.
Eℓ Mαgηιғιcö
Nice post Aussie. This place is indeed very therapeutic. Macallan all round to warm the cockles and toast a reaction.
Slainte
And excellent post earlier Lars.
Bad day all round really. Defensively not very good, midfield the same and Giroud had one of “those” games up top. The manager also made too many errors.
Taking off Flamini was a daft decision when you replace him with Gnabry. It should have been Arteta or Cazorla (preferably Arteta).
I don’t say that to knock on Gnabry, but that shifted Walcott to the other flank and the result was that Monreal was exposed too much.
I would also have taken off Wilshere rather than Flamini, as Jack had an awful day and looked very slow and out of his depth, to be frank. Ramsey had one of his less impressive games… so generally an all around off day.
Just going to have to do Chelsea and West Ham.
Aren’t we.
Not seen any of the game. My Saturday was taken up with number 1 son playing a bit if egg chasing at Saracens. Conceding 6 isn’t good at any stage of the season but I will reserve judgement until I have seen the game. We have points in the bag for a reason. Citeh have spent over one billion in since oil boys turned up. Quite frankly with that sort of money they should win everything in sight. We know we have areas we could bee stronger in. Let’s hope that no one hires the panic button too soon.
Keep the faith.
Cynic – I totally agree re: subs. We had them hemmed in, throwing the game wide open suited them far more than us.
TH14 now on MoTD.
Citeh had 7 shots on target and scored 6. Doesn’t speak to well about the way we defended. Only seen the MOTD highlights but we looked off the pace. We looked jaded. We have had a tough week. Now might be the time to recharge and to come back stronger.
Steve T, you saw all you needed to see and made the right conclusions (as ever).
Bath and ST – see you at the Chel$ki game?
Indeed you will BtM.
Looking forward to our renaissance after 9 days of R,R and preparation.
Thank you and welcome Aussie.
Et al, obviously 😉
You lot are the mutts.
This result makes the Chelski game a seriously HUGE one. A home defeat against another major rival (who aren’t even playing well) and I’ll bite your hand off for 3rd place. Win though and we’re back in a strong position.
Next Monday just needs to hurry up…
Aussie, I had a go at your comments earlier in the season. I’m not certain I that I took your subsequent apology sufficiently seriously.
I wish to acknowledge the excellence of your post above. If I could find the hatchet I would bury it. Welcome to the world of grown-up Arsenal supporters. Get yourself a drink, and, sod it, charge it to my card rather than Lars’.
We’ve had better days that today and we’ll have plenty more in the future. There’s a damn good chance that’ll start on Monday.
COYG
Disappointing week – seen many over years but not so many as cock nee blue I guess 😉 My disappointing week sees us qualifying out of the group of death and still top of the league – not too shabby eh! Now let’s put those upstarts from SW6 in their place Monday week – with a week + r & r we will be ready, willing & able!
Nice & succinctly put Holic – nothing more required really. Lots of great comments from all the regulars and not forgetting we still have Lars mega wallet supplying all those in need of solace.
Evening all. Holic, quite agree with what you saw but feel a tad more emphasis on how poor the officiating was, would still be within the boundaries, of good taste 😉 Relieved you did not single out anyone player, for blame. Team sport, people!
Not all that bad if we lose to Chelsea. I KNOW they have a better team. They are not playing well true BUT watch Moureen do the abracadabra on Wenger again… I am not worried tho. Its like I have addison’s disease but no, its just been 8yrs. 8 long years.
@ 66 abb, Yep, Holic was overgenerous in his praise of Citeh and insufficiently vitriolic on the officiating. Don’t you just hate his balanced perspective? 🙂
Magnanimous is the word you are looking for 😉
@Bath – Excellent, you can help me hunt the illusive ST in the Tolly umbrella garden. His camouflaging skills are remarkable, perhaps a pincer movement will get the job done.
Fair report holic and was a spectacle of decent attacking football and shoddy defending on both sides; never a three goal margin and a high scoring draw was just as likely an outcome bar for physical and mental fatigue.
Some good and reasonable posts above but some perspective needs to be garnered by others.
Citeh are an exceptional attacking force at Middle Eastlands, and that’s no surprise with the shitloads they’ve spent upfront and their formation, but they are not unbeatable. I’ll take a 6 – 3 defeat away and a 4 – 2 win at home in the reverse any season long, and I’ve seen enough today to believe that will occur.
Still top of the league, through from the group of Death, nine days recovery before Maureen’s cunts visit. Injured returning for the festive blitz of matches and the Transfer window reopens in just over 2 weeks. What’s wrong with all that really? Not much in my book!
COYBG! Up the Arse!
I’ve been complaining about Santi and Jack for weeks … when is AW going to see they’re both woefully out of form and stop persisting with them? 90 minutes for Jack? No TR7?? Subbing Flam??? What was he thinking?
Actually I didn’t think we were so bad, considering Shitty were awesome in attack, fatigue was obviously a factor working against us, and the officials gave us nothing. Awesome in attack for sure, but their high line did make them vulnerable. If the ref’s assistant hadn’t been on Shitty’s payroll we might have scored more than three, and that could have made them nervous.
Pleased to see Theo given a start (finally!), and he rewarded with what we’ve been missing for weeks now, a couple of great goals … and should also have had a tap-in but for an Ollie cock-up.
On the bright side we scored three more than the spuds.
On the dark side, did we see the lack of heart from Özilla that Ancelotti, Zidane and Perez all talked about? In truth we haven’t seen much from him for a while now.
One thing Shitty showed us today was how to keep on pressing when you’re ahead, something else I’ve been on about most of the season.
Öskar
TTG@20 – Very Good. Agree with pretty much all of that.
Cover for the full backs was poor, but I thought that Nacho’s positioning contributed to the acres of prime attacking real estate that was constantly available on Citeh’s right wing.
Arteta and Flamini have many merits. Speed isn’t one of them and for both, football’s Old Father Time isn’t on their side. Both should struggle to find starting berths next season – another way of saying we need a pacier, younger DM.
Owen provided his usual dire dirge today. I though James was the prime contributor to your “Citeh wankfest and rather banal in its analysis”. Rather banal is a rather kind descriptor of a total load of tosh.
Jack had a shocker today, too harsh to stay that he’s going backwards though IMO.
P.S. Her Nellieness says that ST is elusive not illusive 🙂 I’m not so sure 🙂
OT Dog, we haven’t seen much from Ozil for a while. Really? Are you excluding the goals and assists from that analysis?
Yes, BTM, apart from 2 goals and 4 assists in the past ten games he’s been too often anonymous, imo. He seems to have lost the enthusiasm he had earlier in the season. I expect more for 46.4mil.
Öskar
loads of drinks already but I think I’ll keep drinking until the next next Monday comes and another round of drinks, hopefully accompany with lots of cheers and high fives.
the high scoring against us was a bit unexpected, though giving ManC home form and offensive prowess, I shouldn’t be surprised. A tough game to be sure, tired legs and mind, coupled with a away match to Italy, the whole schedule stinks.
I won’t criticize Ozil because there’re players in the game that don’t even come close to his contribution to the team. What is worrying is that there’s something lacking in our play, not just this game but most other games when we’re facing stern oppositions. There seems to be a lack of grip of the situation and movement among our players to make the pass and coming forward to receive the pass. What I’m trying to say is, we lack the ability to hold possession in a meaningful way. In an ‘easy’ game, of course we’re on top, no problem. But in sticky situation, finding the rhythm and knowing when to retreat and when to attack in a concerted way would be the final hurdle for Arsenal to reman combative at the top of the league. I say it again, it’s all in the PASS.
Another drink please.
Hi fellas.
Gutted. Simply gutted.
What’s infuriating is not the result but the manner I which we conceded today.
3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th goals came from stray passes or getting dispossessed in midfield. That’s our doing and it was unnecessary.
Also, extremely disappointed at the last ten minutes when the players simply stopped tracking back (dare I say quit. From a defensive stand point) and let TV and BFG deal with the threat. Nasri should have scored a hat trick in that ten minute stretch alone.
I must say I’m not liking the way this month is going as it’s now three games without a win which could be stretched to four.
As for not being able to win the league without beating the big teams -United got 5/18 points from the then top 4 in 08/09.
The Chelsea game has become a must win not because of its implications on the race but because it needs to stop the rut and to instill the belief all over again.
In 08-09 Utd’s record against the 16 other clubs was:
P 32 W 27 D 4 L 1 Points 85
Vs. top 4
P 6 W 1 D 2 L 3 Points 5
We are currently at 2 D and 2 L vs. the other 16 (WBA and Everton. Villa and United).
Which means we can’t slip anymore against the lesser teams if we don’t beat the top 4 teams.
Either we win all our remaining 18 fixtures vs. lesser 16 (won’t happen) or we need to start beating the top 4.
Chelsea next Monday would be a good start.
A quality striker and CD, and perhaps Cabaye, in January (plus fully fit Poldi and Ox) and we’ll be back in business.
Öskar
Cheers Holic, N7, Arthur and Pangloss.
Bath – therapeutic indeed.
Oskar I prefer tarts to trolls and your suggestions were very sensible I think Remy might have been ( be ) a realistic signing now Benteke appears to have blown up but a double deal with Cabaye might upset Pardew. Oh in that case lets do it!!
The constant transfer focus does get a bit tedious but for us I think we realise this team is very close to something big and it might be the difference between success and failure . We have very little dross at the club now – even TGSTEL did well today but the sight of him coming on underlined our area of real vulnerability and I’m not in the camp that says Poldi can come in upfront. That’s a make do and mend solution and with our resources and given how far we’ve come I think we need a proper high- quality striker and a mobile DM to give us the best chance of doing as well as we can.
On a different note I was sorry to see Steve Clarke sacked. West Brom have struggled recently but he did a great job last season , gave them unrealistic expectations perhaps and might still have a job if Chelsea hadn’t been giving a ridiculous penalty against them. That would mean they had won at Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge this season. Very good coach and seemingly a decent bloke. He is bound to pick up a job on the merry go round at this time of year. Had we not got Bouldy he’d be a good coach for us.
Remy is owned by QPR and on loan to Newcastle. We’d have to deal with both clubs, which would be very tricky in Jan and prob quite expensive (since we’d need to bribe Newcastle to end his loan early).
I’m also not sure he’s any better than Podolski, who I feel should get his chance if he’s now fully fit. Finally, presumably those who objected to Suarez in the summer would be apoplectic if we moved for a player with a rape charge hanging over his head?
I would broadly counsel against reaching conclusions about what we need based on yesterday; our toughest domestic fixture of the season, played with fatigue. I think most of the bar was expecting a defeat, which speaks volumes. Sure, we didn’t expect to ship six, but let’s see how we go against the Chavs, because that will be the real acid test – win that and the City result won’t look so bad and we’ll all feel a lot more positive. Hell, even if we lose if we’re still in a pretty good position.
Snir – do you think it’ll need 85 points to win the league this season? I’m not so sure – everyone is losing and drawing games like it’s going out of style. I think 80 might do it, assuming no one catches light after Xmas (which is, of course, a big assumption).
Snir, we’ll win against Chelsea next week and beat both the Mancs at home. That’s a promise.
Sorry, Oskar, quality striker, DM and Cabaye won’t happen. But don’t fret, we’ll win the League without them.
BtM – I also fancy our chances against those teams at home.
Here’s a question; has any “big” team actually won an away game against another “big” team so far this season? I’m not sure they have. Which makes away defeats in these games missed opportunities, but no more than that.
Win or even draw the home games and we’ll do just fine.
Cheers bath!
Aussie, nice one!
Steve: “Quite frankly with that sort of money they should win everything in sight.”
So correct. The big question isn’t “how could Arsenal concede six against them?”, it’s “how could they start the game six points behind Arsenal?”
Oskar, lack of heart from Özil? I thought he along with Ramsey was the one who really tried to create stuff all the way to the end. He moved deep to get the ball, ran at City players, tried to pass it in behind the back four and so on.
I really don’t think there is too much need to analyse this game any more than “it was shit” and then use that to fire ourselves up for Chelsea.
N7: correct, no “big” team has won away at any other “big” team. Depending on how you define “big” you have these results that I can remember off the top of my head:
ManU-Arsenal 1-0
ManC-Arsenal 6-3
ManU-Chelsea 0-0
Liverpool-ManU 1-0
Arsenal-Liverpool 2-0
Everton-Chelsea 1-0
Chelsea-ManCity 2-1
Everton-Liverpool 3-3
ManCity-ManU 4-1
In addition to that, ManU and Chelsea both drew at Tottenham. We beat Tottenham at home. Tottenham were far more outclassed than we were at Eastlands. Et c. But we said “big” teams so I guess Tottenham shouldn’t really be included 🙂
Spot on Lars, on all counts.
Arseblog today. Word.
“Finally for today, just as word about people on the Internet who, for the most part, are great and contribute well to Arseblog and Arseblog News through their interaction and comments, on the site, on Twitter and beyond.
However, due to the fact that every idiot with a keyboard thinks they’ve got an absolute right to be heard, it’s now got to a point where almost the best thing about winning football games is the fact you don’t have to deal with the really unpleasant people who pop up every time you lose.
Frankly, I’m fed up of it and I don’t see why I, or the people who use this site, should have to put up with them. So from now on there is a zero tolerance approach to unpleasantness and bad manners. If you can’t understand why you comment hasn’t been posted or has been and subsequently deleted, maybe think about your username or the content of your message.
If it contains personal abuse to another commentator, the writer, or even the players and the manager, you can go find somewhere else to spout your shite. By all means talk about how X player didn’t play well but if, for example, you resort to name calling based on his nationality, his personal life or anything else, then forget about it. If, for example, your username contains a reference to an Arsenal great’s current illness, then I don’t want you anywhere near my website.
I know it’s a minority, but they’re loud, persistent and their self-entitlement is through the roof. Nobody should have to deal with such ignorant, angry people and I’ll do my best to make sure that happens.”
My main takeaway from yesterday: next time a linesman doesn’t show up and the other team offer to have one of their dads run the line in his place, we should say no.
I am trying to see this as a freak result due to weariness etc but our team effort was dreadful yesterday
Leaving out Arteta was a big mistake. If anything Arteta should have been rested midweek – we have more chance to win the league than the champions league
As it stands though, I am still worried about out big game mentality. We cannot win the league if we don’t take some points against the big teams
Heh @N7 currently @89
Excellent Holic, and Bloggs, @88.
I am sick and tired of idiots, who claim to be supporters, rejoicing in every failure and imperfection, and using it as an excuse to beat the club up.
That is not to squash criticism, but when you read that “people” are using a man like Pat Rice’s illness as a means to vent their pathetic ire, then it has gone too far.
The reason I changed my mind about David Beckham was that travelling England thugs evidently wished his wife and children dead of cancer after he had a poor performance abroad. From that day on I thought that if he was prepared to even think about playing for England again it must mean more to him than those brain dead morons could ever understand.
Sometimes ……..
And quite right too Holic currently @88.
Not a word to disagree with re: Arseblog.
Holic @88 & blogs…….THIS. Trev also spot on.
@88, spot on!
This team including arsene have done a good job this season in correcting plenty of our past season issues such as;
Most importantly we have bought quality in – Ozil is true top shelf quality and the team have responded to that quality.
We have won against the lesser teams
We have had consistency
Our injured players have been a bit less and are coming back at the right time instead of going out.
We have cash and lots of it.
We have won through as tough a CL group as possible
Our midfield has been on fire
Our defense has been the best in the league
Our solo striker has been scoring
We have been playing some of the best football in Europe.
Yesterdays performance and villa performances were both very poor in comparison to our average performance level this season.
Nothing went our way and it just simply was not our day. That happens in all pro sports – golf, darts, rugby, cricket, swimming, cycling, baseball, car racing, even horse racing.
Everything went right for them and Pellegrini knows that it did go their way on this occasion.
However Pellegrini will not be over the moon with that performance as he knows we will not be that poor again too often and his side were Easily scored on and had a few lucky offside calls in their favour.
Ozil is a class footballer and he will win us matches and trophies.
But he can’t do it on his own and he won’t play well every game.
But, his single piece of match day precision is a sight to watch.
It is like watching tiger woods in his prime hit a 1 iron hook shot, 300 metres across a water hazard onto the 18th green to win the masters.
Very few can execute that type of stuff, let alone even think it can be done. Ozil does that stuff every game with some of his passes, it’s just when they don’t turn into goals, or worse we lose, people tend to forget that same brilliance was the single biggest positive change in this club for a long while and brought some stellar football to is all.
I look forward to seeing this team go all the way this season.
Ping!
Feeling much more optimistic this morning.
For those that are bored this lovely afternoon, 20 minutes behind the scenes at Etihad tunnel.
Arsene chatting to Nasri, Bendtner saying that tunnel smells like piss and other tales.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHcE3MQNALg&app=desktop
Bendtner’s poetry can be heard at about 12:30 of the video.
Interesting link @99. Good to see Kos vertical at the end, tho hobbling.
Well in Lurky – both pre and post extirpation of the trolls.
@dy: ‘There seems to be a lack of grip of the situation…’
That to me seems to be the truth…especially against the so-called ‘big clubs’…maybe it is a mental block…and yet, we won against BD at their home, so I know it can be overcome…and I really hope that in the return fixtures against ManU an Man City we can do that just to prove to ourselves…I’m not sure about this ‘home’ and ‘away’ division…if anything, I think Arsenal play with even more freedom away than at home…the pressure seems to be more on them at the Emirates than the opposition….so these return fixtures at home are not a given to be Arsenal victories in my opinion…
on another note, it is upsetting I think to see Per yell at Mesut and broadcast around the world, but I guess emotions run high…and we now live in a world where everything is out there non-stop, but it’s not positive to show such internal strife so blatantly, and maybe Per regrets this today?
I’m wishing Arsene and team all the very best to overcome this bad day at the office…and truly hope we can beat Chelsea and stick it to Moaning Maureen…gotta laff at that name 🙂
on another note…can someone give me a quick background on the cost of the Man City team? they are good I have to say…how many dollars got that together?
No-one likes a public dressing down, particularly when they know they’ve made the wrong decision. Per was captain, he saw a problem and tried to sort it.
It’s usually better to do these things 1 to 1. Sometimes it has to be done immediately and publicly though. Per was correct. The fans had to see that the dressing room code had been broken and that they do appreciate the fans (and our away support were again brilliant – as ever).
The team has generally been good at acknowledging fans after away games. Failure to acknowledge the fans after games at home used to be a major problem though even in TA6’s captaincy – the team just trooped off win, lose or draw with an occasional cursory clap as they entered the tunnel, apart from Dicko who did a lap of applause to the fans, then Feo started doing that. For a long time they were the only 2 to make a regular special effort.
Now it’s been sorted and the majority of the team acknowledge the fans (who have not fucked off too early – another problem) in all parts of the ground.
Per was probably also angered by how the back 4 were so repeatedly left exposed by the midfield and Mesut slinking off was the last straw. Clearly he thought, ‘Get with the programme or get a bollocking’ – and quite right too.
Holic @ 88: Exactly! And a vast majority of us ordinary supporters with balanced perspectives do not have to continuously cleanse our consciousness of the poison we just read just to be able to have a decent conversation with other fellow supporters.
Agreed with Lars, BTM and others about this result being an outlier and simply to move on while using the hurt as a motivation for the players, which I am sure they will.
About Ozil, I think all these comments about not trying enough or looking disinterested etc. are overly exaggerated interpretations of a certain non-typical (especially in English football) demeanor. At the end of the Everton match once the whistle was blown I saw Ozil, who just a few seconds back ran onto a pass and started to move forward quickly, lashed the ball out in disgust and then started walking with the same “I really am fatigued and can hardly walk” body language, it is just a way of his being in the pitch and has got nothing to do with either his abilities or his attitude.
He is a winner and he will make us win many more games with moments and phases of singular brilliance. Let us appreciate him for what he is and not demand him to be someone else.
Among the positives yesterday Bendy’s cameo was one, I know I have been told in this bar by people close to the team that he is a ‘gone’ case and not someone to be relied upon. Probably all true and we will help him usher out at the end of the season, but yesterday’s and the performance against Hull were rather promising and offers a decent enough alternative for Giroud with Poldi filling in the missing ‘unerring penalty box assassin’ role … A fully fit Poldi is way better than Remy or Beneteke or Michu etc. and I think unless we are going to get a player of the calibre of Suarez/Higuain (of the same calibre, not those players exactly) Arsene would bring someone in January.
I reckon they are giving out bungs at the Ethihad.
Times are hard and Christmas is around the corner.
The correct score yesterday should have been 5-5 with Theo on a Hat-trick
I meant … “unless … Arsense would NOT bring someone in January for a striker position.”
Somehow I think an experienced (but not too old) central defender who can also play DM maybe on the shopping list as towards the second half of the season we need better defensive guarantee against the inevitable injuries/suspension.
Hi all. Forced absence due to being away at my sister-in-law’s birthday festivities. My wife and my brother-in-law were both concerned I would be a misery guts after watching the match, but to their surprise, I was actually in good humour. Yes, we’d lost, and heavily, but I still felt the gap between the teams wasn’t 3 goals, that Walcott looked red-hot and that we’d gone there and been positive by going at them, not sitting back and trying to contain. Long may that attitude continue. I felt the main reason for the heaviness of the defeat was the number of misplayed passes around the centre circle, along with players dwelling on the ball and getting caught in possession and the lack of protection for the back four. I felt Flamini for one was getting too carried away and was caught up field too often. In addition, there was the inexplicable officiating.
But all credit to City for their gung-ho approach and their rapid closing down. It made for a wonderful game of football, despite the result, and I took a lot of encouragement from it.
I was dreading coming on here and seeing a load of garbage from the “I-told-you-so” brigade but, either ‘Holic has edited it all away or they’ve gone somewhere else. Great to see how upbeat the feeling generally is here. It was only 3 points after all and against the second-best team in the PL, who have spent many millions more than us building their team. I still think that what AW has done with the funds available is nothing short of magnificent and, yes, the squad could do with a little strengthening but nothing wholesale is required.
Looking forward to the miserable look on Maureen’s face after the game next Monday. We’re still in the driving seat.
Spot on and worth waiting for your comment dkg.
Well said dkg. Many nails hit squarely on their heads (just as yesterday’s match officials deserved to be).
Agree with Blogs keeping riff raff off the comments section. Talking of, where’s Take An Exit Son? It’s been a pleasure reading comments here recently w/out his oversized ego & know it all attitude. Long may it continue. COYR.
Suarez is unreal. The best forward in the world at the moment.
What a goal by Suarez. We would be serious Title contenders with him no doubt. What a striker.
No need for that, Vinny.
LWCs look in real bother here. Got to say that I think we should take whatever money we have and bang it all on Suarez next summer. Stick him in our current squad and we would be utterly lethal.
Also just noticed that despite yesterday we still have a def record bettered only by saints and Everton, neither of whom have been to City yet.
Another reason to be cheerful: Kyle naughton isn’t our left back.
Spurs getting completely outclassed by a Liverpool team with Allen, Henderson and Lucas in midfield and no Sturridge. Naughton at left back has been torn a new one by Sterling just as he was last season by Theo.mind you the poor lambs had a big game against Anzhi on Thursday.
A draw would be the best result but I just can’t will myself to want Spurs to score!
This is what I’ve been talking for a while. Liverpool are much better team without Gerrard The Overrated. He drastically slows them down.
Totally agree Lurky.
It boggles the mind that the England midfield is being built round him.
Spurs can always be relied on to cheer us all up. Merry Xmas everyone!
Not sure this is good for Arsenal, but it’s fun.
How terrible is Kyle Walker as a defender?
I must say I was among the ones wishing we’d sign Capoue in the summer but on the evidence of his performances for Spurs so far I so glad Arsene stayed away from him.
N7: it annoys me greatly that Suarez seems to have finally understood that football is a team game. That means my only valid criticism of him from a purely footballing point of view is no longer valid…
dk, that drink deserves a drink on my tab. Shit as we generally speaking were yesterday there were a few positives. Theo is getting back to form and gives us an alternative to just attacking through Giroud, and we did score three (well, four if the lino hadn’t been on the booze) goals despite the midfield not really clicking at all.
I’ve said it all along and I’ll say it again: at this point I’d still be perfectly happy if we finished third. That would give us a really good chance to add the final missing pieces during the summer. We could of course add to the team in January as well, but as we all know the really big guns are rarely available in that window. Lewandowski is the only one that I can think of that is likely to be available. I seriously doubt Liverpool will let Suarez go anywhere, let alone to us. It wouldn’t actually surprise me if they already have a deal in place for him with Real for the summer.
Anyway, nice to see the Spuds 2-0 down. I know Liverpool are considered much more of a threat to us and that is probably true at this stage but seeing that lot being 2-0 down and generally being outplayed is always a nice feeling so in lieu of a 22-man punch-up this will have to do. It could and probably should have been 4-0, Suarez has missed a couple of sitters and Coutino has hit the bar. The crossbar, that is, not the drinking bar that the linos yesterday had hit before the game.
Oh and good thing our striker is not a bitey racist who, after we defended him when the whole world was on his neck for the crimes he committed, would be chomping at the bits to leave us if one of the clubs we’re trying to oust in our bid to become the best in the world came calling.
Lars – I agree about a third place finish. Progress is the most important thing.
Bolster the squad, buy a top class striker and go again. One of Rooney and Suarez will not be in the champs league next season, so there’s a good place to start.
Cent, bitey racist or not, he is a machine. It is not just the goals he is scoring, he is a complete forward. I know that we actually lost our chance to sign him, but believe that him and Coleman are the two players who will lead us to titles, not only in PL but in Europe too.
Guys – 3rd place finish?
What is all this defeatist nonsense?
It’s there for us – I haven’t seen anyone more consistent than Arsenal in the last 12 months.
Keep the faith.
I’d be happy with Third if we win the Champions League and the FACup! Otherwise I still think we have a chance of first. I’m with Zico!
Sling £60m at Liverpool (assuming we have it) and Suarez could very easily be a Gunner.
Two years left on his deal this summer, the chance to look smug for having massively driven the price up, and the rumour that Madrid are after Falcao. I reckon it could happen. The only question is whether Chelsea or City come in for him.
Definitely a good chance of the title. Just would have taken third and a title push in August, so couldn’t be too unhappy with it come May.
Afternoon all.
Indeed a good move from blogs on his site today.
Luckily here seems to be an oasis of good sense and common decency compared to most of the other sites, that’s what led me here in the first place all those years ago, yes there are some that come to provoke, but mostly it’s just one particularly sad individual who’s pretty easy to spot and therefor (mostly) ignored.
Sometimes it’s hard to believe your all supporting the same team when you read some of the reactions elsewhere, that’s probably why I only ever read Arseblog, although not the arses, and here.
I sometimes wonder if those keyboard warriors actualy have the balls to speak to people in the real world the way they do when on the net. They probably don’t though.
They teach them karate at Copacabana?
To poke fun at Pat Rice in his current predicament is beyond contempt. It has nothing to do with football support it’s about basic human decency.
The apologists for AVB have been saying that Spurs have righted the ship since the Citeh match. By beating Fulham, Sunderland and Anzhi at home??? First tough match and the wheels fall off. And without Paulinho it’s curtains.
Lurky, no doubt Suarez is one of the best forwards in world football, too bad he isn’t much of a good human being. Football is more than just a game for me so I can’t bring myself to support players like Suarez.
Funny how most people slate Bendtner’s attitude/character but keep calling for us to make Suarez our record-signing, has Bendtner really done anything worse than Suarez?
I’d rather have Rooney than Suarez than Rooney to be honest.
I echo Holloway2Holland: “Luckily here seems to be an oasis of good sense and common decency compared to most of the other sites.” I am so glad to discover Goonerholic this week. Wallowing in the comments on some other Arsenal blogs would be toxic.
I’d rather have Rooney than Suarez to be honest.
The Totts making L’poo look great.
Mignolet was lucky in the first half though.
MJK.
H2H will do instead of that whole name thing. 😉
Cent, Rooney hates us from the bottom of his heart, a hate that has it’s roots from distant times. He will never come to us.
Was watching a bit of this LWC meltdown match, what dreadful football!
I know this is highly entertaining to a neutral, as the bizarre 6-3 match we played yesterday was, but both matches (with different level of technical qualities involved, of course) had the same shapeless un-organized chaotic feel without any rhythm.
Neither Pool nor LWCs are genuine contenders simply because they cannot control a match and have no organizational consistency (and many other reasons including not enough quality), and before our performance yesterday we had shown excellent ability to control a match and stay organized. No attacking play can flourish without a rhythm in the team’s play and more than the scoreline what bothered me yesterday was the lack of effort to stay cohesive after that fourth goal.
As good as Suarez is, I think he is more noticeable in a Pool team which really is pedestrian for most part. They have been coasting a bit on the excellence of Suarez and form of Sturridge but sooner or later the holes would be exposed more frequently.
We need to simply get back to the cohesive, organized, disciplined football we have mastered in the last one year and then we have enough talent in the front (assuming rapid returns for both Poldi and Ox, fully fit and firing) to see us through.
I think AVB might be jobless in the morning!
Oh dear ha ha ha ha sorry this makes me feel a great deal better!
At least we were in the game!
Ok, this is officially a porn.
Suarez with a brace of goals and three assists away from home.
If we can’t get Suarez which is almost certain we won’t, if I am Arsene I would ask Atletico Madrid the price of Diego Costa.
Doc Faus’
I wouldn’t rule Lpoo out quiet yet, even if they are been carried by Bitey O’ Tool.
we all know what I think of him as a person. But, wow, what a player at this moment.
Lurky, that should tell you how much I hope we don’t sign Suarez.
Always good to see Spurs annihilated. Really poor goalkeeping by Lloris on the fourth goal. That is also nice to see. 5-0 now and those are flattering numbers for Tottenham.
zico, good point about defeatism.
I must say that not having Gerrard on the pitch demanding every ball in midfield seems to have been good for Henderson. I think he’s been really good this game.
Just when things look their gloomiest, along come Spurs.
Always look at the bright side of life…..
Cent 🙂
Can always count on the spurs to make an otherwise horrible weekend, really fun. Damn how I wish we had held on to beating Everton. Oh well we now have to beat Chelsea, am tired of mourhinho parking e bus and still end up beating us.Common you gunners
ttg@135: have people really done that? Fucking hell, that is just… I can’t even find words for it.
Lurky @141.
Rooney hates us?
The same guy that said. “once a blue always a blue” about five minutes before fucking off to become a red?
Don’t believe the hype mate, pay them enough and they’ll love you too.
What Lars said.
Shame on them.
Sp*rs 100mill spent and not one shot on target today in a home game.
😆 😆 😆
H2H — Yes, the Pool seems to be right there in, but I think their defense and midfield are too suspect (though not bereft of quality) organization wise to put together a consistent tun and they are over-reliant on one player.
I also agree with you about players and their supposed ‘love’ and ‘hatred’ of a club. Figo had switched allegiance to Real Madrid, some extra money and guarantee of a medal didn’t take our erstwhile captain and ‘mascot’ to devote himself to some other paymaster…if there is a genuine chance of ManU not making the CL Rooney would definitely want out, no question about that.
I am very confident Arsene would assess the situation accurately and do the needful in January to sustain a title challenge. But we might be surprised by whom he brings in and the position he brings in for, may not be the most obvious choice. But that in itself, of course, is obvious. 🙂
The table doesn’t lie, Doc, just as we are good value for top, they are in second on merit, if that’s inconsistency then I’d hate to see them click. You need look no futher then Van Cuntsy contribution to Manure last season to see that one player can carry a team to the title. If L’poo beat Cardiff next weekend they go top, as we don’t play untill Monday.
All I want to know at the moment is why Suarez transfer failed in the summer. Was it because Liverpool really didn’t want to sell or we refused to pay 10-15 millions more?
BJ@149 Almost word for word what I had intended to post 🙂
I’d been hoping for a draw but if the Totts are going to lose, a hammering is always nice. Trouble is, it means that AVB is even more likely to out the door next week and a new manager will probably be able to tighten up quite a bit before we get at them again in March.
It also gives a big boost to ‘Pool’s GD and their chances of getting into the CL next season.
We’re likely to be down to third by this time next week (i.e. before beating Chelsea). But then City and ‘Pool play each other, so something will have to give there.
H2H, yes, agreed on both counts: the table doesn’t lie and Pool is second deservedly. However as good as RVP was there for ManU last season Carrick, Rooney and the defense (in tougher matches) played key role too. Carrick had provided great stability at the middle which was key and which they are lacking this season.
I just think their lack of consistency in the defensive side and lack of depth in the squad will catch up sooner or later. And also the fact that their targeted ambition this season was to get back to CL. I could be wrong, of course.
We need to get back to our defensive and organizational solidity and then find a bit more of spark and accuracy in the penalty box and have adequate covers going into the second half.
why all of a sudden media is soo much in love with Man citeh…..”the league is theirs to lose” wth! they are 4th behind both liverpool and chelsea, yet this “league is theirs to lose” stupid
Lars
Sorry mate but yes they have.
Arseblog this morning published the warning which Holics reprinted about abuse.
In it he referred to some people making a joke of Pat’s illness by giving themselves blog names referring to it. Hard to comprehend being that sick and tasteless isn’t it?
I referred some weeks back to the day when Rocky died and his death was announced just before the kick off…we were playing Spurs and feelings were running very high during the minute’s silence. To their immense credit you could have heard a pin drop in the Tottenham end. Sometimes sporting rivalry takes a back seat to humanity. That was such a day
My son- in- law who cavorts on the dark side has just emailed me after landing in Australia. To find you’ve lost 0-5 at home is a bad start to your Christmas holiday!
heh bar…what was that with the 40 Million plus 1 pound bid? seems such an odd thing really…if we wanted him, we should have made it worthwhile…was watching the Pool/Spurs match…Suarez is really some player…speed and accuracy gotta give it to him
ttg, I read the Arseblog quote but must have somehow managed to miss the bit about those scumbags. Truly despicable behaviour.
Evening all
What really makes me laugh is that we get dinked. 6-3 but at the end of the weekend we are actually even further ahead of the glory spuds than we were at the start of the week. One of my mates is a spud season ticket holder. The talk apparently is that AVB will be gone in the morning. You’ve got to laugh.
https://twitter.com/paulleafs/status/412326449371430912
Spurs fans – the gift that keeps on giving.
Steve, agree totally. The fact that they managed to fall even further behind us on a weekend where we ship six goals is nothing short of hilarious.
Dr Z,
I’m on the BPL and FA Cup double at 60-1 and the League at 10-1 and we have people here pining for third? Give me a break!
Fancy coming along to the civilized east of the Kingdom for pint and a natter? I’m here with the exception of brief sojourns south for Chel$ki and Spuds home wins.
Your round as I recall?
I feel my “happy with third” may have been slightly misunderstood. Third isn’t my goal, I want us to win the league and for the first time in a few years I think we can – but it will require some luck with avoiding injuries (or strengthening in January) so at this point third would still be a result that would make me happy with the season. But the longer we stay top of the league the less happy I will be if we finish third.
Beaten but not battered.
This Arsenal team should be able to beat both manc teams back at the Ems, at least if we get one of the more balanced refs.
We have a long week now to re-group and recover. Chelsea are going up to Sunderland midweek, and we will have a fresh team to face those truly vile bollixes.
Did anyone expect winning the league would be easy?
Heh N7
The guy’s called John Thomas?
Isn’t that an Americanism for a gentlemans tackle!? 😉
I’ve said this before, well maybe not here, but Lloris is rubbish.
Please Dennis,
Let spurs play like that in the FA cup.
Pogba and Tevez would do in January.
Tevez is past his use-by date, NB1, or will be very soon. I remember wishfulthinking AW would sign him after the World Cup before last when he was with WHU (?). He was in his prime then. I wanted him and Ribery cos they are probably the two ugliest guys in football (with talent) and we were in need of toughening up at the time.
“has Bendtner really done anything worse than Suarez?” did you ask, Cent? Only every time he steps onto a football field! 🙂
Öskar
Lars @163,
You obviously missed my comment on the Pat Rice insults too – just after Holic’s quote from Bloggs.
Disgusting.
Don’t get me wrong with the mild negativity I have espoused lately, if I’d been offered top of the league in December before the season began I’d have bitten whoever’s arm off.
What concerns me now is we are stalling, while Shitty, Pool and Manure appear to have steadied their ships and Everton have emerged as a class act. Pool and Shitty in particular are scoring goals for fun, and we are not scoring when we need to. From a possible 7 points clear we are now in danger of being swamped.
Of course any kind of win against the chavs would ease the doubts, and if we could follow it with old-fashioned thrashings of Hammers, Geordies, Cardiff and a massive revenge on Villa we’d likely be many points clear again. And being well top in January would make us very appealing to quality transfer window signings.
Öskar
Spuds tied on goal difference with West Ham and Hull Tigers. You can’t make this stuff up. 😉
With the LWCs you don’t have to make it up, 8ball. It’s in their DNA.
Öskar
This is just beyond belief.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbkBp8KIIAASK5d.jpg:large
And it only cost spuds 110mil. For that they could have had Suarez and Falcao.
Öskar
Manure have steadied their ship? They’ve lost two of their last three league games.
I find it wonderful that Utd trail 13 points behind the leaders and all the talk is of how they need a bit of time, how it will all click eventually and the money they will spend in Jan. We lose at City and what do we get on the sports pages? Broken cannons.
Having watched Liverpool yesterday, even aided as they were by AVB’s suicidal tactics, I think Utd will be pretty worried about their top four spot.
Interesting to think back to how Spurs’ structure was being lauded as fantastic and Baldini’s shrewdness in the transfer market contrasted with our inactivity last summer. It affected us all at the time but as always Spurs have the capacity to stuff it up. Last season they were incredibly dependent on Bale who continually rescued them with world class goals . Well he’s gone now to a stage more fitting to his talents.Of the players they bought the only one I rated was Eriksen and he was a player we just didn’t need. Soldado is totally unsuited to the EPL and even England’s wonder boy Andros Townsend induces grimaces from the Spurs fans I know because of his lack of effectiveness, just look at his fantasy Football score compared to say Walcott or Ozil.I can only see this ending in tears and yet another new manager. Apparently I understand he isn’t the nicest or most popular of men from a couple of people who know the club well.
None of this matters to our title challenge but we can’t help but smile when we think back to the stick the press gave us in the summer. I’m also told that Mourinho has been told he can’t spend in January. Cash straitened Chelsea eh!
Let’s hope our lads rest well and develop a nice positive attitudea before a Christmas programme which we could do very well in. It might be to our advantage if Citeh ,Cheksea and United win this week as two semi final legs in January can be knackering after all the Christmas games .But come on West Ham pile on the pressure!
Agree N7 Villa were pathetic yesterday. There is a huge well of United support in the media and a lot of anti- Arsenal feeling
Ttg, good points, but Spurs spending all that cash in the summer didn’t affect us ALL. Certainly didn’t affect me.
Maybe Chelsea won’t let Moaninho spend because they’re saving the funds for their next manager to use…
Before the season even began I suggested Manure would struggle to make top 4 in the wake of Fergie and Scholes departures, N7, and I still expect them to struggle. But even when losing they’ve looked better than they did earlier, so they cannot be written off completely. Although RvP’s latest injury (who expected that?) will not help them. 🙂
Meanwhile we may have got the results most of the time but haven’t looked half as awesome as Shitty (Aguero) and Poo (Suarez). We really need that kind of reliability at the sharp end to top off the excellent work of our midfield. The inability to score when we absolutely have to has been our Achilles heel since Henry left.
Öskar
H2H@170
Not an Americanism – very English in fact – DH Lawrence in “Lady Chatterley’s Lover”.
Trev@175: apparently, yes. My reading skills last morning seems to have been hopelessly out of form 🙁
Oskar: we are stalling? We are in a bit of a slump that had a lot to do with tired legs – don’t forget that we have been hit rather badly by injuries and could not rotate very much for a while – and minds but we are now getting a good rest before Chelsea. We have Poldi and the Ox to come back, Theo is finding his feet again after his injury, Jack and Santi both have more to give et cetera. And yes, City and Liverpool have looked good in some games but then again we dished out a few hammerings last season (7-3, 6-1, 5-1, 5-2, 5-2 are some results that come to mind) without being anywhere near the title. We’ll see, but counting us out based on just the past week would be a mistake. After all, as crap as we were on Saturday we scored three goals and had one wrongly ruled out. Theo getting back into shape gives us a much more varied attack.
N7: I still think a few good results may restore some confidence to ManU, but time is running out quite quickly for them. The title is all but gone as it’s not just the number of points but also the number of teams to climb above, but a top four finish is still not yet beyond them.
Well said, Lars! My thoughts on Manure is that they will blow hot and cold just like we did last season but they will eventually make the top four just like we managed to do last season.
I told he will be jobless in the morning AVB has been sacked!
Another Vacancy Beckons.
Avb sacked
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25397167
Now for the champions league draw!
City vs Barcelona
Olympiacos – Man u
Milan(ITA) v AtléticoAtlético(ESP)
LeverkusenLeverkusen(GER) v ParisParis(FRA)
Dortmund or Real
Sorry guys Dortumnd or Bayern
Bayern it is!
Bayern
Hey we have Bayern again! Ah well.
Fcuk it, I’ll take that.
We have no luck in draws in this competition. When Barca were the best in Europe we drew them twice in a row. Now the same with Bayern.
Winning the group once in a while would help us, but even so….
Slots it hard past Bayern keeper! Come on Arsenal!
AFC VS Munich
If we are to win this thing then we have to beat the best!
Spot on ATG.
I’m good with this draw. Either beat them and become proper dark horses to go all the way, or straight out in the second round.
No point being scared of anyone.
And it’s not like they are unbeatable we know we can beat them we did at their own back yard as well!
We just need to learn from the home game before nothing else!
Positive thing about Bayern draw is that this year I might travel over there to watch our boys beat them!:)
Bayern would of wanted to avoid us…..
Bring it on.
And word for Totts sacking of AVB, I actually was worried when he signed for them since I think he is a quality manager but yet again it looks like he is not suited for PL.
Did they completely forget that he led them to their highest points total in league in ages last year? That they sold their best player and bought big bunch of new ones and expected him to make them click before Christmas?
Not that I am defending him but this is another case of the circus some clubs are making of themselves (not that Spurs are not circus on their own). Gotta feel for him a bit, two chances to be head coach in PL, two wrong clubs where to do that.
His, previously rather nice, CV is in tatters now and he will be lucky if any decent team will give him a job, but fuck it ..what do I care for Maureens understudy..
We can do Bayern. It won’t be easy (that was quite possibly the understatement of the year) and they are of course massive, massive favourites but we lost on away goals last season when the team was in a far worse state.
And besides, Dortmund drew Zenith so finishing top wouldn’t have meant a walk in the park in any case.
Not unhappy with Bayern I must say.
Need some very urgent help though people.
Does anyone know how to stop a bid on e-bay? I put a bid on a Mickey Mouse outfit and I’m 15 minutes away from owning Spurs….
I don’t feel overly sorry for AVB.
I watched his last few games at Porto and thought then he looked a bit of a bellend – wearing a captain’s armband over his suit jacket and celebrating goals with all the players.
He’s a good manager in theory, but he’s utterly flubbed two of his three jobs, and no one made him leave Porto for Chelsea.
I’m inclined to hand part of the blame for the mess at Spuds to Daniel Levy and whoever picked the transfer targets, but Villas Boas tactics have been extraordinarily bad at times, and he’s refused to learn from his errors.
Continually playing a high line of defence with slow centre backs. Not addressing the left back position (beyond letting the club’s best LB leave to play in the championship), buying all those identical central midfielders, pushing the full backs right up at city, inverting his wingers even when they’re getting no delivery into the box. Soldado in general.
They’ve looked a shambles on the field at times, and he hasn’t helped himself. Just look at their midweek game – on Thursday night he picked half a team for a dead rubber at home vs Anzhi that he then picked again for a vital match vs Liverpool on the Sunday. What on earth was the thinking there? He consistently seemed to believe that the Europa league had magical energy-giving properties, when quite the opposite was true.
Somewhere in there is a decent manager, but he needs to learn a little humility and to honestly appraise his own performance, learn when he’s getting it wrong and address that, rather than simply keep hammering away with the same system, regardless of whether it’s working or he has the players for it.
All of that said, it’s daft sacking managers with the regularity Spurs do, but then they wouldn’t be Spurs if they had a blind bit of sense. I’m sure Michael Laudrup is waiting for the fateful call…
SteveT@212 :-))
Oh, and remember when some were pissed that we didn’t spend £30m on signing AVB from Porto? 🙂
Lars – spot on, also I think it always suited us better to go in to those games as non-favourites.
Besides, you can bet pretty much anything on the fact that against Bayern, there is never going to be any kind of complacency or lack of focus, so bring it on!
bayern, eh? ughly, yet enticing as hell. let’s better last year by one away goal, and we’re through.
N7@213 Do you think anyone is really “waiting for the fateful call…”. I’m very unconvinced indeed by T*ttenham’s policy with managers:
Jol was doing a good job – they fired him.
‘Arry got them a league position that’s like a trophy only to be denied by a flukey win for Chel$ki in the CL and UEFA’s daft qualification policy – they fired him.
Vilas-Boas got them their highest points tally, they indulged him by allowing him to buy shed loads of players who, surprise surprise, are taking time to click – they’ve fired him.
OK, ‘Arry became completely fixated on trying for another job and presided over ther season going not just pear-shaped as completely shapeless so, looked at in isolation, “letting him go” was justifiable, but there’s a disturbing pattern there – disturbing if you’re a Spud (insert “disturbed anyway” joke here), or if you’re considering accepting a management job at SCL.
I think the only manager that the job would really suit is one who doesn’t need to worry about finding another job after he’s had a nice payday in Middlesex. Even I would be looking for a six-year gig with a big fat early-termination clause, and I don’t know the first thing about football management. I think the days of “power Shift in North London” are well and truly over.
@ Pangloss
Villas Boas got them their highest points tally, but he had the benefit of Gareth Bale popping up to score last minute winners across the second half of the season. Without him, they were largely moribund, and you could see signs they were in bother.
We all wondered how he’d get on without Bale, and this season we’ve found out.
It’s tough replacing a great player, but Arsene did it last season with RVP, and wasn’t given a ludicrously inflated budget to spend in doing so. Spurs got far more for Bale than he was worth – they have no complaints and all this “got to bed in the players” stuff is a poor excuse. It’s December now, and if anything they’re going backwards rather than forward – looked a better team in August.
The fact is that they’ve bought what appear to be duds – who on earth decided Lamela was worth £30m? Soldado is only a year younger than RVP and cost more than him, etc, etc.
I generally agree that it’s foolhardy to keep sacking managers and they should be given time. Hell, I wouldn’t have sacked AVB – the mess is only likely to get worse from here and I don’t see the harm in giving him until the end of the season to turn it round. But I don’t think AVB has many complaints. He inherited a pretty good side, spent a ton of money, had them playing some terrible football and bristled every time he was criticised. He almost looked to me towards the end like someone who wanted to be sacked – and I don’t blame him, given his employers.
I still feel that if we beat the blues next Monday we will be back in with a chance of winning the league again.
We need to lay down a marker and send out the right message next week.
The media rats have been having a field day, as our run had heavily upset the odds. Afterall, if you only base your stats upon what is said on MOTD or MNF or even SNF or whatever the equivalent case may be, you could have been heavily influenced in to thinking that we did not stand a chance of topping the league at Christmas. What is it? “Those who top the league, usually go on to win it”? Or was it “you cannot win the league with kids” I forget which one it is now, as I listen to so many bad pundits and read so much poor journalism, that I sometimes forget about the magic which is transcended on to the football pitch!
As I say, win next week and we are back in. Well in. Then we can talk about the champions league. As Thierry would say “that is nothing to me” right now.
Mwarha!
You either let the manager manage or you don’t. And that includes determining who is signed and who is sold. Its a significant part of the job.
How can a manager realistically take responsibility for signings that are made by other people? He has all the responsibility and not the requisite authority to do the job properly.
In AVB’s case, he’s lost his best player, and has had 8 new signings foisted on him. Its an entirely new team. WTF did they expect?
Wenger has always contended only one person should determine who comes in and who goes out and thats the manager. And he’s absolutely right. And any manager worth his salt, would stipulate that as a contractual prerequisite to taking the job in the first place unless of course they’re just looking for a pay day. Eitherway, AVB is damaged goods now and may not get a chance at management again, all down to making poor choices in the first place.
I agree with the sentiment expressed earlier by some, that its going to take another transfer window to make us into a European powerhouse capable of playing against the top teams.
Of course, all matches are two horse affairs and even an underdog has a chance of winning. But the reality is that Bayern are going to be immensely difficult. One things for certain, our German contingent will be up for this one!
Just seen CoR’s tweet on the Champions League Draw page, was a pleasant surprise! 🙂
Goonertown
I still think even if we loose the game on Monday which God forbids, we are still in it.
Other teams will certainly loose points along the way so I don’t think that we’ll be out of just because of Monday.
AVB got what he deserved always ranting that they finish above us! Perhaps he so reluctant of showing of his team to everyone he lost the plot on how to manage them in the end!
This is the thing in August they looked a very decent side? So what happened?
Boateng on drawing us:
“This is the worst opponent we could get”, Boateng told his club website. “They will be highly motivated after last year. There will be two very intense games.”
ATG –
Indeed. Everyone who knows me, knows I would never use a negative word such as ‘out’ at this point, under the current circumstances.
😉
ATG:
I take it we drew Bayern again?
Ineed GT Bayern it is again 😉
ATG@224 “This is the thing in August they looked a very decent side? So what happened?”
Tottenham happened, as they do with amusing regularity. The problem now is, whoever they get in now (do they already have someone lined up?) can hardly make a worse hash of it. Whatever else they are, they are certainly not God’s Chosen Football Team.
I just hope they haven’t lined up Laudrup – for their sake. Good manager he may well be (jury still out, I think), but he has a track record of getting into disagreements with management, very easy to do at WHL.
It felt inevitable that we would get another crack at Bayern when we ended up second in the group. I think we should be in better shape than we were last year and have the benefit of those two ties to learn from.
We are being written off already and that’s fine by me.
Back to Holic’s words on Friday’s Arsecast. If there’s going to be a ruck, the best thing to do is take first pop at the biggest fella in the room.
Let’s do it, Arsenal.
As for the shower up the road, first they made my Sunday a lot better (for which, many thanks) and now their board have a hissy fit. Levy really should do the honourable thing and jump off the roof.
Classless at every level.
Heh Steve T @212.
😀
All good news from Middlesex Rovers (Arsenal Gent) then.
More turmoil – another manager caught in the revolving doors and spat out onto the Tottenham High Road.
Even better news that Mr D Levy remains in post to continue creating chaos, wasting money (oh yes, the arch negotiator), and appointing the wrong people to manage the club.
How many times does a Chairman, or chief executive, make a wrong appointment, or sack the people he has appointed in mid-term, before it dawns on him that, maybe, he doesn’t know what he’s doing either.
Long may it continue. 🙂
Fail play dkgÖÖner
I hope they won’t get Laudrup either they got what the deserved really!
My (unlikely) opinion: Arsenal to win 3-1 on aggregate, an improvement on the 3-3 draw of yesteryear.
Also, when you look at when we drew B*rcelona 2 years in a row, the aggregate score went from 6-3 to 4-3, there could be a 2 goal decrease for Bayern Munich if the same pattern is followed for whatever irrational reason 😉
Bayern will not want to get knocked out in the…knockouts and will raise their game. Nonetheless, anything can happen between now and then for both sides.
🙂
Steve T @ 212 🙂
Trev…Middlesex Wanderers..spot on. When the LWC bought all those players in the summer, D Levy & Baldini where the smartest people in football…if only Arsenal conducted business at that level.
Well now it’s all gone pear shaped, they blame the coach, although I don’t think he covered himself in glory since then. Shame they didn’t give him longer 😉
Bath / Wind…….Bayern Munich – the bigger they are the harder they fall! At least we know what to expect this time round and hopefully we can find a way past them and into the next round.
The draw is certainly an incentive to raise the bid on Sneaky Chu-Chu.
Even if we don’t get him, it’ll certainly piss Brenda off no end – every cloud has a silver lining.
(Yes, I know I said I don’t want him at AFC but my resistance is weakening.)
Still in “no Suarez in Arsenal” camp here. He is magnificent footballer, that is without doubt, but same is Ronaldo for example and I would not want him anywhere near Arsenal aswell.
His form of late is impressive, but there is just no way Lpoo are going to sell him to any other team in England. He is bound to go, but definitely not to us.
Thoughts about Laudrup – last week the Danish Football Association met to decide whether to give the national manager Morten Olsen an extension to his contract, after his team failed to get to Brazil. There was a lot of talk over here about saying thanks for the memories and getting a new manager in, with Laudrup top of the list in the press. Anyway, Morten got an extension for 3 years – whether or not that was because Laudrup was sounded out and said no, I have no idea. But if he did, that could be a sign that Sp*ds have already put feelers out.
Laudrup managed Getafe for one season (resigned), Spartak Moscow for 7 months (sacked but amid rumours of him being dissatisfied because of alleged broken promises over money available for players) and Real Majorca for 1 season (resigned, again over dissatisfaction over the financial situation). He’s only been at Swansea for a season and a half, so he’s probably getting itchy feet by now. He’d be perfect for Sp*ds, given their respective track records recently.
I for one believe Arsene’s failure to feature Santi, TR7 and Arteta at all indicates he had beating Chelski in mind – take the chance with Shitty but lock in for the Chavs. Sound strategy actually as we were unlikely to beat Shitty given the way the fixtures came off. They are the older players and need more recovery time. We can get three points from Maureen – COYG
Cheers Uply – hope you are well, sir.
Gunner76,
Like your thinking – Rosicky, particularly, has been a real driving force for us this season, and we look a better side when he is on the pitch.
Please double the rations, Arsene, of whatever TR7 has been eating – we have to keep up the energy levels of these old boys.
On a related but serious note, I think there is too much made of fatigue, certainly by us fans. Maybe we are the only ones who do it, and what we say ultimately has no effect on anyone, but there does seem to be something in the club’s/team’s psyche that causes us to prematurely apply handbrakes, abandon our pressing game too often, and almost expect to run out of gas.
Surely the elation of scoring an extra goal or two, or feeling the noise of the crowd cascading down onto the pitch, has an energising effect and is less hard work than trying to close down space when sitting back and trying to contain.
Press high up the pitch, score hatfuls of goals and keep clean sheets.
That’s all we ask.
Anyone have a problem with that ? 😉
@ 239
That’s a very, very smart shout.
As a long-time reader, despite being a LWC, thought I’d have a look on here to see if AVB’s demise was being discussed!! Impressed to see nearly all posters debating the rights and wrongs on the decision in a measured way. As you will imagine, the Spurs sites are carnage. As a long-suffering follower of the soap opera up the road, today has come as no surprise. AVB has appeared more and more clueless as this season has progressed and Levy is not a man to take his time over a decision. Personally, I believe the manager should have been given more time but that was definitely a minority opinion at the lane yesterday!
Gunner76,
I think you might be on to something there. If I remember correctly, some time after that 8-2 match, Arséne said that he knew that game was lost since it was played very very soon after Udinese game (see the pattern there huh?) and it was all about damage limitation…which as we all know did not exactly work out in the end.
Should we beat Chavski (and I believe we are more than capable of doing so when we are on top of our game), then the City result will be just a freak blip in the long run.
Interesting thoughts, Gunner76. But I think that with nine days of rest after City, there wasn’t too much consideration from Arsene about the Chelsea game – unless of course some players were in the infamous red zone, which is entirely possible even though he didn’t say so before the match.
Massive heh@SteveT@212!
Dave@242: I read somewhere today that no manager since the very early 90’s has stayed for the duration of his contract at Spurs. That is quite remarkable if true.
Eandy – 8-2, damage limitation ?!?!! F@#*#!# hell ! But, yes. 😉
Dave,
Fair play to you, sir.
Might I just take this opportunity to say that I hope your turmoil continues unabated. 😉
@ Trev
Think we’ve discussed this before, but I actually think that fatigue is greatly under-estimated in top level football.
It’s no coincidence that you could have predicted we’d look ragged in the last 20 mins at City, given the comparative levels of rest. It’s also no coincidence that the “big” clubs drop more points after midweek champs league games.
Hopefully, we’ll be on the right side of the equation come Chelsea a week today.
Lukas back for the Chavs; Ox and Yaya in the New Year.
It’ll be like having 3 new ….
Oh, forget it.
Dave@242 – I vaguely remember you visiting before and impressing all and sundry by your civilised behaviour.
That said, I am deeply offended by your suggestion that “nearly all posters (here are) debating the rights and wrongs on the decision (to save AVB) in a measured way”. Given the unfortunate circumstances, I’m prepared to overlook it.
I hope you, personally, come through this latest crisis intact, and that you will understand why I don’t wish your team good luck.
N7: I also think fatigue is underestimated, but at the same time people greatly overestimate the amount of rest needed. A week here and there is usually more than enough (and as I think was mentioned earlier in this session this has greatly benefitted Liverpool who have been playing once a week pretty much all season), but playing late Sunday-Wednesday-early Saturday is without the shadow of a doubt going to affect the team playing those three games.
@ Eandy 243
That Old Trafford game really was the perfect storm, wasn’t it?
I think we could all see it coming. I’ll put my hand up and say it’s the only Arsenal game in recent years that I’ve actively avoided watching – I was up in Newcastle visiting the in-laws, had been to watch the Toon army win (I think) and couldn’t face the pub. Maybe if it had been an Arsenal pub… Followed it on text instead, then went to bed as early as humanly possible.
The combination of injuries, gaps in the squad and fatigue meant the game had “beating” written all over it before it even began. We’d played in Udinese on the Wednesday in searing heat, in a game absolutely vital for the club (more important, if anything, than the Utd game) and that we’d only won quite narrowly. You could just feel what was about to happen, it was fcuking awful.
Then the team: a very young Jenks on one flank, Traore (already half out the door) on the other, Djorou in the middle. With an equally young Coquelin asked to protect the back line, and Arshavin padding about aimlessly in front of Traore. Ozyakup, Miquel and Sunu on the bench. Gives me nightmares just remembering.
Mental to think it’s only a little over two years ago, and we are where we are, and they are where they are. Who’d have foreseen that, eh?
I don’t much care to think about that day. It was the worst I’ve ever experienced as a football fan – I absolutely loathe Utd and it felt like we might be in real trouble as a club.
Brrrrr….
Oh come on, dk – you know you want to say it!
Trev, my turmoil will continue forever, I know that! Pangloss, no offence meant!
Dave @ 242 – fair play to you.
No idea where you lot will end up this season, but at least you might see a bit of attacking football now.
Lars @ 250
Agree with that. It’s not masses of rest that’s needed, just a few days between games. The body does recover quick, just not quite quick enough for our current schedule.
Your point about Liverpool is an excellent one. Similarly, we all feel that if we go out to Bayern one upside will be that it will help our league campaign, because it will reduce the fatigue of extra games.
Also worth noting that there are two types of fatigue – the short term stuff, that makes it easier to beat a team on Saturday if they’ve played on Wednesday, and the long term stuff that means England will never again win a summer international tournament (lions in winter, lambs in summer – so true).
N7 Gooner, it’s been so bad I’ve looked back fondly on the glory days of Mt Gross.
Heh. I think we all look back fondly on the glory days of Christian Gross.
Trev, I’m well, thanks for asking – trust you are the same.
Trev / N7, we talk about physical fatigue but what about mental fatigue. With top players performing at the highest level – particularly Champions League – 100 % concentration is paramount. It is possible some players may find this difficult on a continual basis and eventually get mentally fatigued which in turn can transform into physical tiredness as well. Anyone have any knowledge to my theory?
Dave…you chose the best arsenal site for reasoned debate but you can only expect to read of our amusement at the continual shenanigans at the little club down the road 😉
Oof – Mike Dean for the Chelsea game.
Effing hell N7, bad news..on the other hand..anyone fancy 5-2 ?:P
Still cannot forgive him this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLdMNZR6QDM even that the match ended like it did, this kind of behaviour is just unnacceptable.
Why the Bayern re-draw’s a good outcome for us fans with reasons to be optimistic:
1. Arsene will now be forced to strengthen in the January Transfer window to adequately prepare for the crucial run in in the EPL and the CL tie with Bayern.
2. Win or lose the Bayern tie, we’ll clearly learn about our squad’s EPL and CL title credentials for this season and next season.
3. We should be confident of getting a result away in Germany evidenced by last season with Bayern and this with Dortmund; a tight home performance in the first leg will set is up nicely.
COYBG! Up the Arse!
Yeah, I’d seriously hoped spurs would stick with AVB longer based on their results … ! He was clearly not up to the task and a bit overrated I think. They were hardly in deep trouble, table wise, and seems a bit premature to eject him now. (was looking to make a premature ejectualtion pun in there but … just didn’t quite come together for me…!)
And … yes, I know – the door is thataway!
Dave,
FairPlay to you fella! As others have said, goodluck to you personally but all the worst luck to your lot on the pitch! Up the Arse!
So Zola quits Watford wonder if he will rock up at the Lane,
Tottenham have got to stop trying to unsurp us and look at the bigger picture and until such time they get a manager and stick with him for at least a couple of seasons the farce will just go round in circles, Cannot wait till building starts on their new ground if they think things are tough now wait till they go through that. They need stability to even attempt the move otherwise it will be carnage in the making!
Dave, what Dan C said.
Mrs TTG has a theory that everything is bearable as something turns up to help you deal with problems. After Saturday the jolly old LWCs have proved this in spades. We’ve had yesterday’s quite epically awful performance followed by yet another manager biting the dust. Interesting to ask how many managers they’ve had since Nicholson left them in the mid- 1970s around the time Bertie Mee left us.
Terry Neill actually moved from them to us and after him we’ve had Howe, Graham, Rioch and Wenger. Goodness knows how many they’ve had in that time and not one serious challenge for the League in all that time.
On the radio this morning one idiot was bemoaning the fact they hadn’t signed Leighton Baines! Why would Baines leave Evertion to join Spurs? They have a totally unrealistic view of where they sit in the football hierarchy and this is their problem. One Double over fifty years ago doesn’t make you a big or a great club. To kids nowadays it is as current as the double that Preston achieved or the dominance of the Wanderers. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. Mid- table club with occasional cup wins. Small old- fashioned ground in the arse end of nowhere and at the moment a very unremarkable team.
Dapper Dan- I love your positive thinking but Wenger doesn’t spend if he’s got a tough game coming up. He prefers to keep his powder dry unless the exact players he wants to buy are out there.
Thank you all for your supportive comments!! Pangloss, not sure if you got the wrong end of the stick re my comments on the AVB dabate here but I meant it in a positive way. I shall leave in peace now and eagerly(!) anticipate the cup tie on 4th January, when David Pleat will no doubt be in the away dug-out…
The other positive from the match that I think has been overlooked (unless I missed it in a comment above)… Na$ri not scoring and looking very upset about it.
Not good, the Bayern draw. But bring it on anyway. I feel CL is a bit of a dream for us. League is where it is at
TTG – Mrs TTG knows – she chose a gooner to marry of course 😉
Dave,
Was going to bring up David Pleat but thought that would be inconceivable even for your lot 🙂 Blow up doll manufacturers would be rubbing their hands in glee if he was brought back !!
Dave – If you’re still around, I don’t take compliments from Gooners and certainly not from LWCs 🙂 🙂 🙂
Have a good Christmas and don’t get your hopes too high. (I’ll do likewise.)
TTG,
In our recent barren years you’re correct but I’ve a highly strong feeling that Arsene’s going to go again this January for a clinical striker after Ozil’s capture in the Summer, and our current positive state of play in all the significant competitions!
Who he goes for I’m not sure but it’ll probably be more for the EPL and the FA cup challenges rather than the CL; unless it’s an irresistible 60+ mill for cup-tied-less Suarez?!
I still think Wenger will wait until the summer for a striker, unless something startling happens next month. He clearly wants a top quality player in that position.
Just look at all the mooted targets: Suarez, Rooney, Benzema, Martinez. None of them will move in January.
I don’t think it will have escaped Arsene’s attention that come summer Rooney will have a year left on his deal, Suarez two (assuming now new contracts this term).
Assuming we finish top four, it looks fairly likely that one of the two players above will not be with a champs league club come late May.
I think this is what’s known as a window of opportunity.
Uply
How nice of you but I’m not sure Mrs TTG agrees! An Arsenal supporting after- in law ( sadly deceased). daughter and grandson has established a lineage she finds a bit hard to understand. I think she picked me for my smouldering sex appeal. Then again…!
Dapper Dan
You are a tonic mate. I hope you are right. I’d certainly be pleased if he did.
Just heard Hoddle, the Tottenham Messiah won 3 more games than AVB in 35 games more! Awesome club aren’t they?
TTG no doubt with Mrs TTG the smouldering sex appeal was a bonus…she had her priorities in order;-)
I also think AW won’t buy a striker in jan – highly unlikely a top class (Ozil level) will be available then, plus we have Poldolski & Theo and even Yaya back in the new year ( well the first 2 anyway) and he being of cautious habit will defer unless it became imperative. Personally from the little I’ve seen of Sanogo, he looks nowhere near ready even if fit but some cameo appeances may show us otherwise.
Right, off to bowls now…laters.
Latest football rumor: spuds fans so deeply into self denial, among other forms of denial , they don’t eat christmas cookies. Can anyone confirm?
Put me in the “no arrivals in January” lobby. Several reasons:
Top, top talent is likely to be cup-tied;
I’m not convinced that we absolutely need a new signing, therefore any signing would be an opportunist recruitment. That’s likely only if there’s quite a bit of turnover, which I think is improbable;
I believe that Arsène Wenger plans a season at a time, hence January recruitment is the exception rather than the norm. Adabayour+Diaby+Walcott/Arshavin are counter-examples, but 2 big Januarys in the course of 16 years constitute exceptions to my mind;
If we make a signing, a top-top signing, then I will be pleasantly surprised. If not, I’ve already prepared myself.
How’s this for a scenario:
End of the season. Utd pip Liverpool to 4th by a single point.
Rooney, with his deal near an end, decamps to Chelsea. He publishes a self-justificatory note on his website and rumours swirl that he was shopping for houses as early as January. Utd fans, who thought he’d stay if the club retained champs league football, are furious.
Meanwhile, over in Spain, Falcao seals a big money move to Real. The Monaco stopover having facilitated the transition from one Madrid club to another.
Back in England, Luis Suarez demands a move. He has two years left on his deal, his last summer at full value. Liverpool will be in the Europa league. As the window kicks into swing it becomes apparent that only one buyer has the interest and the finances to make a deal happen…. and they’re smoking cigars. The new league champs sign the bitey one for a cool £60m, a new British transfer record.
Liverpool immediately spend £40m of it on Shola Ameobi.
And so the wheel turns…
I think the point N7 makes is valid concerning either Suarez or Rooney being available. My own thinking is that Suarez will manoeuvre for a move irrespective of whether ‘Pool make CL berth or not. And he’ll be sold to Real for huge money unless they opt for Falcao which will be a more difficult acquisition as Monaco don’t need the money. I think Rooney will be sorely tempted to stay another year and leave Manu on a Bosman unless they really break the bank. He holds all the cards and there’s a real risk that Manu might not make the CL. But if past form is anything to go by, Rooney will have no qualms about holding them to ransom and he’d be right too…! The most opportune time to sell Rooney is actually in the coming transfer window, but Manu are in such a state they just can’t afford to loose him.
I wouldn’t rule out buying a winger in January as opposed to a striker. We have a wonderful ability to turn defensive into counter attack but we have zero pace in the team to exploit it properly outside of Theo and Ox and thats a point that’s really come home to roost since the two lads were injured. IF we do buy a striker I feel it will be an established short term option as opposed to a marquee signing.
Berbatov on a cheap one in January? His contract expires at end of season. Not by any means the quickest but still technically one of the best players ever to grace a ball with his boot in the league.
… signings.
Yep, I’ve always thought he was a really viable option NB1, but we’re in the minority on that front. And despite Fulham playing so poorly, from the little I’ve seen of him this season, he’s being playing very well. Given a choice, I’d certainly have him over many of the other strikers we’ve been linked to.
Berbatov again – time for bed.
Uply,
Decent point about mental fatigue.
What I can tell you is that the brain does not “like” constant extreme swings from highs to lows. It is fairly easy to relate that to the situations of playing matches / not playing, winning / losing, being super fit / being injured, being selected / being dropped, etc. etc.
In order to avoid constant extreme swings, the brain will seek a more constant level of stimulation which tends to naturally occur towards the bottom end of the loop.
In extremis, this gives rise to depression. It is clearly not the case that all professional footballers are continually depressed, but it is not hard to imagine that a high level of stimulation, confidence and motivation is difficult to achieve every three days, if the team are struggling with results in very difficult games.
Add to that the mental stress and tiredness caused by long distance travel and adjustment through time zones and it is easy to see how fatigue could set in.
I am not, therefore, saying that players don’t suffer with fatigue.
What I said above was that we, especially, as fans and, far more importantly, the manager tend to talk about it publicly a bit too much. Players will also tell you that they want to play every game – not that they want to rest up for a game every three weeks.
I don’t remember anyone ever saying that Thierry Henry or Patrick Vieira, or Nigel Winterburn or Lee Dixon etc.etc.etc. needed resting every few games.
AW has already said this week that he rotates, to a lesser extent, all the time. The last week was a ridiculous schedule. It was unfair and unnecessary, but so was publucly talking about being tired.
That, in itsself, will have given Citeh even more belief that they could go out and beat us – which clearly they did.
The last time Bayern won the CL in successive seasons was 1976, and no-one has retained the trophy since AC Milan in 1990. Odds are someone will KO Bayern this season, and it might as well be us.
Öskar
Nice work all, thank you.
Decent contributions Dave, thank you too.
N7 @281 knows!
Trev @287 knows too but not as much as N7! 😎
Some nerve tonic for all remnants in the bar. Salut!
@281: N7, that could very well happen but who knows at this point, eh?
@283: NB1, used to think Berbatov was very good but now he’s just good at being an Andy Garcia lookalike. Rumour has it he’s off to some team in the MLS in January with Defoe…
Interesting story about tax scandal involving Spanish football.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25410320
The government minister says they will fight to defend Spanish clubs because they are part of the “Spanish brand” but I am wondering whether some of them really are. Barcelona, for instance, which may consider itself more of the Catalan brand.
@292: Throw those bastards out of Europe! Or let them go bankrupt like the rest of the indebted!
Will never happen though…
Day15/25 job done. You little beauty!
Off to the sun for Crimbo….
Hope they got decent wifi in Egypt.
*tumbleweed*
Where is everybody today?
Tucked comfortably in bed?
@CoR
Their all looking for some decent cricketers to play the last 2 tests!
Just watched the highlight of our win at Munich!
The ref was really bad, we had Fabianski in the goal and we still won two nil!
Have a good one H2H. Lays it into the path of………
……and deceives everyone, especially the keeper. Thanks for the assist Arthur.
Nothing to FEAR
We did it once we can certainly do it again!
COME ON ARSENAL!
Uplympian
That was a strike and a half! 😀
Watching cricket, eh? Not for me I’m afraid. Especially as the West Indies stopped being good in the 80s lol
Look at it this way. If we do manage to beat the holders we are definitely going to win it. They are the strongest team around.
Anyone know how long Kos is out?
Funny enough I have never understood the rules of Cricket and no one wanted to explain it to me….
I think I’ll give a pass now too old to learn that now plus Poland is rubbish at it too! 🙂
and that included footie too!
However we should sign Lewandowsi in Jan 🙂
For those of a Twitter persuasion, check out WestStandTone’s timeline this morning – you could say he’s enjoying what’s going on up the Seven Sisters Road just a teeny, tiny bit 🙂
ATG at 232, they got Tim Sherwood. 😆 It couldn’t get any better
@307. Grew up loving to see boniek play. he was very good in the 82 WC and later playing for Juve.
isnt lewandowski going to bayern a done deal? would love it (keegan style) if we could pull that one off 🙂
To all the aussie gooners Both down under and abroad congrats on an historic ashes victory against our greatest rivals – the English.
Enjoy a Crown lager, a VB or a tooheys new wherever you are and maybe a little bundy rum to finish.
Just like in football, seems the home ground advantage is now very difficult to overcome for any travelling teams, be it in Australia, England the West Indies or the sub continent.
Yes DB10 you are correct Boniek was a great player he was at Juve all his life that I can remember 🙂
Howdy ‘Holics,
Just a quick pop in. I figured radio silence was the best option for a few days after Saturday. My apologies and respect to all who battled the refuse that inevitably soiled the bar in that time.
Anyhow, time to dust ourselves off, get back on the horse, and start a new winning streak.
No doubt, Bayern would rather have drawn anyone but us. COYRs.
BMBD
DB10: Kos listed as “no return date”. Poldi next due-back, on Dec 23rd, followed by the Ox on Jan 13 and Sanogo on Jan 18.
Wise withdrawal, LoneStar. Did much the same myself, though other matters helpfully intervened. Oddly, though, I felt more upset by the Napoli defeat than I did after by Man City one.
A quiet day.
Guess it’s not only the players that need a break.
Laugh a minute up the road.
Just learnt that the company where Daniel Levy made all his money was called “Mr Byrite”.
You really can’t make these things up.
Good evening hölixs,
Been back drinking for days now after topping the league on a shite day. Looking forward to doing it again come May 2014, but this time I’d be doing it with the BPL pan.
Nice observations up there by virtually everyone including the lowly neighbour down the road. I had mentioned a few times in the past that I’d love to see a 4-4-2 formation when we meet certain opponents. In my little head, I understand that that formation would suit us considering the abundance of talent in MF. Morerover, Walcott or Özil could pair with Giroud up front. That gives the players (TR7/Poldi/OX/Ramsey/idk) on the wing a space to run at opponents fullbacks and help protect our fullbacks, while giving the DMs the security of helping the defence by breaking up play & freeing our forwards once we gain possesion and/or join the attack. This will also allow our midfielders time & space to exchange positions. Wenger isn’t new to it and I really hope he looks at it
My two pennies 😉
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