That’s What You Call A Sting In The Tail
Dec 11th, 2013 by 'holic
For over an hour in Naples Arsenal were doing what they had to do in order to get the point needed to clinch top spot in group F. The final seventeen minutes saw crucial goals in both Naples and Marseille that saw us qualifying for the knock-out phase instead in second place. Most would have taken that when the draw placed us in what surely was the most competitive group.
What a shame that so many traveling Gooners missed the start having been messed around on the coaches booked to take them safely to the stadium.
The home team, knowing that they needed a three goal triumph to control their own destiny, started with gusto. In spurts they closed down all over the pitch, and Arsenal were grateful that Per Mertesacker and Laurent Koscielny were in superb form. Off the back of that solid defensive resistance we had phases of attacking intent ourselves.
A feature of the opening half was the number of times that Napoli resorted to physical intimidation unchecked by referee Viktor Kassai. Behrami, Dzemaili, and Mertens offended on multiple occasions before the latter finally found his way into the book in the 36th minute. Four minutes later the same player avoided a second caution which would lead to raised eyebrows later in the match. I do not recall, and the BBC live text commentary does not record, any foul by Mikel Arteta.
Half-chances were traded by both sides with Giroud, Ozil, and Flamini unable to hit the target for Arsenal while Higuain squandered his team’s best opportunity having latched onto a rare (this season) poor clearance from Wojciech Szczesny.
After the break I thought that following a bright opening we looked as though a decision had been taken to soak up whatever pressure Napoli might attempt to exert in the final quarter of the game. It didn’t quite work out that way, sadly. If anybody was destined to score against us tonight it was Higuain, for whom we were gazumped in the summer if reports are accurate. With sixteen minutes remaining we were still topping the group as Dortmund were level in Marseille.
Then controversy in the shape of a second yellow card for Arteta, for what was possibly only his second ‘foul‘. No complaints here about his first booking for a reckless hack. The second however seemed a questionable decision not helped by a dramatic tumble by Callejon. He was not the only Napoli player apparently suffering an ear balance infection on the night.
The closing stages in the south of France did no favours for either of the sides in Naples. A late Dortmund winner pushed both sides down a place in the group. Eliminated Napoli went down with the consolation of a second goal with the last meaningful kick of the night by Callejon. They can look forward to joining the neighbours in the Thursday version of the European Johnstone’s Paints Trophy playing teams of postmen from Cockmenistan.
A period of reflection has passed and again I have to record that just getting out of this group was considered a tough ask when the draw was made. Certainly, we now face a very good team in the round of sixteen. It can only be Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Bayern Munich , or PSG. Tonight I will take that. Beat any of those and nobody will want to draw us in the quarter-final. Yes, we will be doing it the hard way, but that is the Arsenal way. As Thierry Henry noted tonight on our charge to the 2006 Final few gave us any chance against Real Madrid or Juventus in the last sixteen and quarter-final.
At least we have the opportunity to do something similar. Onwards to the next big challenge. Middle Eastlands, 63 hours after the end in Naples.
138 Responses to “That’s What You Call A Sting In The Tail”
1st?
Now to read the post 🙂
Shirley not?
Well done, ATG.
Win the next match.
BMBD
Yet again no mention
Cheers, Guv. We saw the same game.
Nice write up ‘holic.
Great post match analysis Holic!
Couldn’t agree more! Ref was wrong but I think AW made a gamble today and it back fired slightly.
Evening ‘H.
We weren’t really at the races today but at least the rotund Spanish serving bod was consigned to The Your Ropey League.
I said earlier I was expecting blood and guts and that a draw and no injuries would’ve been a great result. Well we qualified and we didn’t seem to pick-up any new knocks but Giroud looks like he needs a breather regardless.
Get ready for “Difficult December” folks, I think it’s going to be a bumpy ride until the New Year.
I’d pull your arm off now for a draw against The Stockport Vulgarians.
UTA!
Yet another good piece; and Hansen still insists that this blogger can’t win the league.
Night all
MCMBD
COYG
Win the next match indeed!
Going to hit the sack now! Let’s beat those FFF’s and we will be top of the league come Jan!
This is my Xmas present from Arsenal!
“They can look forward to joining the neighbours in the Thursday version of the European Johnstone’s Paints Trophy playing teams of postmen from Cockmenistan.”
HEH! They deserve each other.
Excellent review ‘Holic, spot on.
This is what Arsene said after the game
“We prepared well & were concentrated but we were a bit in between ‘do we attack or defend’. It is difficult to cope with that problem”
This is where I thought the problem was too.
In order to win things we will need to be much more braver and decisive later in the season. We will need to be braver, decisive and resolute than we were tonight for sure.
So, we should either defend like Chelsea or Inter did couple of years ago and play someone with pace up front to do the counters for you. You can’t expect that from Giroud. Oh, we don’t have any strikers of that profile. Buy one then.
Or we attack like Barca and Bayern does. With full commitment and determination.
We must not stay in the middle, in between, thinking what should we do “do we attack or defend”! If we are a big team which we all assume we are having that sort of dilemma in games of this importance is simply unacceptable.
*reads the post* errr uhhhm… Okay
Same people who didn’t think we stood a chance of qualifying talk more of finishing on the same points total as Dortmund are now telling us we messed up by not winning the group instead of giving us credit for qualifying and defying the odds THEY themselves stacked against us. No problem. I apologise on behalf of Arsene and the boys. How dare they win four games out of six in the group of death? Why didn’t they just win a simple UCL away game in a city where only 750(and their safety isn’t even assured) out of our millions of fans dared travel to? How dare Arteta commit TWO fouls in a football match? They should all be ashamed of themselves, the lot of them from Arsene down to Doris the tea lady!
Nice one guv’.
Let all those first place teams worry about drawing us. 😉
Lurky I think you really hit on something there. Not being decisive in the strategy was the real problem. We had a team that could win with either but the lineup did not reflect it. If we wanted to defend to win we should played, imho!, Nacho at left mid and put Theo up front who could hit on a break.
If we wanted to win our way through we should have played Rambo instead Flamster (who I think played great btw). Maybe Theo on the right but this would have left Jenkies too exposed I think. Or could have had the opposite effect and kept their LB pinned back so he couldn’t counter them.
I personally hate the strategy of playing not to lose…it always seems to lead us to, well, losing.
This was not Arsene’s best performance. Being caught between two strategies falls directly on his shoulders. His own words and his lineup show he wasn’t sure. Be decisive, right or wrong. Indecision will almost always lead to a loss.
Bottom line though is we are through and that’s all the really matters. Likely we would face one of these teams in the next round anyway so let’s just kick their ass now.
Spot on holic. We didn’t cover ourselves with glory tonight, notwithstanding we got “lucky” with another shit referee (Uefa must have a production line of them ;-). ). At the time of the draw, we would have taken getting out of the group, and this has been done. We will get a cracking team in the next round….somewhat better than the thurs night cup eh!
Now let’s regroup and give those FFF a good kicking on Saturday.
I think whoever finished as second in our group would be considered a tough opponent for the group winners. Out of the teams they could face in the next round very few will want to play Arsenal and will be hoping they draw Zenit or Galatasaray.
Cheers H. Not seen any of the game. Just on my way home from work. Got the full 90 recorded but will probably give it a miss now. Not sure I can sit through 90 minutes of that. I agree that I would have taken 2nd if offered at the start of this campaign but I can’t help thinking how naive defending in the home game against Dortmund was more responsible for us finishing second than tonight.
Can’t wait for the draw. I can’t see any easy game in that lot but it’s the champions league. Wannabes can turn away now.
Keep the faith.
Excellent summary H.
Qualified.
Job done. Pity about that 2nd goal for Dortmund.
Diabolical second yellow….fella must be either a dope, on dope or bought.
On to the Middle Eastlands….hope the tired legs get well rested and there are no injuries.
Chins up Gooners.
Holic I think you have spotted the key thing tonight. We were comfortably in control but then seem to put the dreaded handbrake on and they made some clever tactical changes which they could do with the lack of pace in our dude. Without Theo , Rambo and the Ox we are very short on pace and gave to oasis our way through teams. We decided we could disk up the pressure and handed the initiative to them. I have seen them at the Emirates and on TV tonight and they lack quality in midfield but have a lot of it upfront. Insigne and Callejon allied to Higuain gave us problems.
I suspect we will play Theo on Saturday to ensure Clichy or Kolarov don’t take liberties and Jack and Rambo look set to come back. Cazorla is very disappointing this season and it might be worth thinking about playing Nacho in front of Gibbs to give us strength on both flanks . I think we can guess the rest of the dude unless Sagna recovers in time. Poldi might make the bench
It’s a big moment in our season but let’s not get too down!
Nice balanced wrap up Holic.
Lurky13 – have to agree entirely that when we try and sit back and not decisively attack as we did tonight, it never quote works for us.
an example I raised in previous drinks, Kieran Gibbs is not a natural defender, he is definatley more comfortable bombing forward as a lightweight winger then having players come at him.
arsene has built an awesome attacking machine that now has two great central backs, we should have stuck with our natural game plan and just ensured general Flam stayed deep to help Kos and Per. watching a shite Napoli side come at us tonight and not be able to attack them back was like watching a great boxer try to steal a points decision with a broken hand, it just never works out.
not our night tonight and never looked like being that way from the get go.
also didn’t think that higuain looks that great even with the goal.
I much prefer OG and our midfielders scoring.
Two things from previous drinks’
Firstly, those that thought Arteta was daft must have been watching the same US channel I was streaming because the pundits said the same. At the time I thought it was a wierd thing to say, because I believe that that was a terible decision from the ref, one of way too many, and no, I don’t think I’m being harsh.
Next, I thought we should of brought Theo on around the sixty minute mark, before they scored, as it was clearly obvious that from the 50th min they were gonna throw everything but the kitchen sink at us, putting Theo on would have given us a diferent out, but that should be obvious to all. My question is, why does everybody (well not everybody but you know what I mean) think that bringing Theo on would have weakened our right side?
Why do you assume that he would have replaced the right sided player?
Surely the right move would of been to replace Giroud, playing Theo straight through the middle?
I love OG, I love his workrate, he’s the man when it comes to holding up the ball and bringing others into play, but that’s not what we needed, plus he looked like he was running through treacle in the second half. The game was already stretched, Napoli were piling forward, if that’s not a time to utilise Theo’s pace, then i don’t see the point of having him.
Ofcourse it’s all hypothetical and I don’t know if Theo would have made a difference, but just as much as you can’t say that he would of weakened the right flank.
For the record, I wouldn’t have started him.
pretty much what i saw, ‘holic. well written, as always.
wonder if david will be around to call this “wenger’s great escape” or something.
off to home, supper, and a beer.
‘Holic, you are a tonic for the downcast. I have wrapped my hopes for trophy in the silver lining you have found.
I hope you are right about the team putting the fear of God into the rest of the field once it has knocked out one of the tournament favourites in the last 16, because we certainly won’t be on the strength of today’s performance.
Hugely disappointing. We made practically no attempt to score, which would have knocked the stuffing completely out of Napoli. Defence was always our priority, but we should have played Theo from the start to take advantage of their obvious need to attack us. Counter-attacking with Theo’s speed would surely have been our best option. He should certainly have come on the moment they scored.
As it was Santi had another dreadful game and his replacement couldn’t come soon enough for me. I was also willing AW to get Mikel off before the inevitable. Sometimes Arsene just doesn’t listen to me… 🙁
Oh well, bring on Barca…
Öskar
Lurky, you are spot on about being caught in two minds over the game strategy in the second half. After about 70 mins it was clear we were sitting too deep and letting them launch wave after wave of attack, without ever getting out of our half on the fast counter (to H2H’s point about not bringing Theo on).
Good points, H2H. In reply to your questions I think and I believe we have all seen that Theo doesn’t like doing and simply does not do the defensive work required from wingers nowadays. If we played him in front of a shaky Jenkinson tonight I don’t think we would have gotten much joy from that flank tonight and if you add the fact that Ozil too isn’t too fussed about defence(no prices for guessing who put in a very weak effort to block the cross that flashed across our six-yard box at 0-0)you already have two passengers defensively. It would be unrealistic to expect our central midfielders to carry that load.
Another thing is that both Theo and Jenkinson have erratic touches generally and it hurts us in attack especially in games like tonight where we needed to hold unto the ball. If you watch that game again you will notice how many times Jenkinson ran/played himself into dead ends and lost possession just as we were trying to build up a good spell of possession, to counter this I think Arsene decided to balance things up by playing a natural midfielder who would show up to bail Jenkinson out of tight positions by always giving him options to pass to(notice how all our midfielders, including Cazorla tend to be drawn towards him not just when he has the ball but also whenever there is a possibility he will get the ball) so if you add erratic Jenkinson to Theo who is not a natural passer the result will be s losing the ball stupidly we need to keep hold of it and frustrate Napoli.
On Theo coming on for Giroud and playing through the middle, I believe it has been discussed/debated here in this bar several times and we all agree that Theo is poor in the air and almost as poor at holding the ball. Removing Giroud for Theo today would have ensured that our defence got no time to re-organise in between waves of Napoli attacks because of a lack of someone to hold up the ball for three seconds when we hoof it up-field. Honestly, I’d rather have brought on Bendtner than play Theo through the middle yesterday night.
Ultimately Arsene’s tactics didn’t get us the win or even a draw last night but it get did get us wins against Dortmund away as well as Napoli at home. As you rightly said, no one knows for sure what would have happened and, personally, I would have taken the risk and played Theo on the right from the 60th minute onwards I still see reasons why Arsene made his decisions the way he did.
Just my 2cents.
Lurky, good stuff @13.
if you lose 1 nil in the 80th min with a defensive performance to try for a draw at worst you are pissed at all the effort you made for nothing.
if you lose 2 nil in the 85th min with a defensive performance to try for a draw at worst you think for fuck sake I may as well attacked, as we couldn’t fair much worse.
that is what arsene will be thinkin on the way home.
to be fair sometimes it does work and you may save some energy for the next match, but for us it never works.
attack is the best form of defence when you have our team set up
Get real, Cent, Theo couldn’t possibly have been worse than Santi in front of Jenks. Can anyone remember when Santi last had even a half-decent game? He’s contributed next to nothing for as long as I can remember.
What does AW have against Theo?
Öskar
Lurky, you had a point in the previous drinks about the psychological effect on our upcoming game against Shitty. In recent years I would have expected us to be badly affected and easily beaten. We shall see on Saturday just how much better this year’s Arsenal really is.
Let’s hope we’re not playing to draw again…
Öskar
Dear Biscuit @ 34,
I am shattered that you do not consider me worthy of your support. Without your support, I feel as illegitimate as the title ambitions of the lot down the road. I wait with ever increasing desperation for your approval so that I can break this negative spiral that I am in.
Oskar @ 32, WRT Santi’s last contribution to the effort, to wit “He’s contributed next to nothing for as long as I can remember.”
I guess you’ve forgotten his performance in the 1-0 win over spuds?or his goal against the mugsmashers?
We should guard against histrionics…
BMBD (I hope we get to dispatch them in the round of 16)
Well done, AW Hawkins…but kindly refrain from feeding the troll (or subsequent Troll-Gorams).
BMBD
Aye aye lonestar. Long time lurker, third time commentor. So put this down to naivety.
Fairly optimistic of a good result against city (a draw or better!) and I am sanguine about only taking one point in the next two league games. The whole point of building up a cushion is that we can use it when we are not playing particularly well. While I would love to steamroll to a title by early April, I don’t recollect it ever being done.
Fair point, AW Hawkins and welcome to the bar. I would rather Wenger have rested Giroud – I favored Oskar’s proposed set up from the previous drinks. I actually would favor Theo get a run of games in his aspirational central striker role.
I love the HFB, but I think he needs a week or so of rest (he is definitely in the red zone to my eyes); so I am not very excited by him starting a Merc Citeh after putting in a shift today. I understand that Theo playing upfront would require us to change our play (the whole “Theo can’t/won’t hold up the ball”), but we won’t know unti we try and our team has the propensity to be a one-trick pony. If Theo was able to take advantage of the opposition high line, I think that would add weapons to our arsenal (pun intended).
Anyway, I’m a mere drinker who has been in the office too long. I predict a draw on Saturday (thanks for the correction TTG) and a win against Gazprom FC.
BMBD
And … How the fuck do we have the saturday early kickoff against City??? After A weds CL tie away?
The FA are a pack of ass clowns. Thats just ridiculous.
Dont feed the troll.
Agreed @ lonestar. Though the whole ‘hitting the ball early for Theo to chase’ is so antithetical to our style of play that I do not see us ever trying it. It requires us to play the percentages, you have to try it enough times for it to succeed. But since it would mean ceding possession when it does not work, our midfield might revert back to their pass and control game at which point having Theo upfront will be pointless.
I am still quietly optimistic for the rest of the season though and hopefully our current style of play will get us the points we need.
Not sure I agree with you, AWH@47, on the long balls for Theo to chase. Both Cazorla and Rosicky like to hit those 40 metre diagonal through balls behind the opposing defense.
Great post!
As an away match goes, it was pretty meh.
Not much to say about it, I expected Higuain to score but conceding in the dying minutes was annoying to say the least.
I’m not afraid of whoever we draw next, we’ll take the fight to them, you better believe that. I have a feeling it will be Real Madrid as well.
Anyhoo, if anyone hasn’t seen this ITV documentary “Best of Enemies: Keane and Vieira” I suggest you check it out here before it gets removed 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEknqkpahok
Hmmm, Lonestar … Cazorla’s contribution to the Spuds game amounted to a couple of half decent free kicks, if I remember aright. While Theo provided the assist to Giroud for his goal and came close to adding a couple more himself. And anyway, that game was nearly four months ago, which rather makes my point!
Many here seem still to be living off the memory of Santi’s first season, and forgiving his frequent anonymity in games this season. I lost count of his careless giveaways and lost balls in Naples and cannot understand why AW persists with him. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a very good player who is simply out of form. A spell in the reserves should freshen him up nicely, while a spell in the firsts for Theo could revitalise an attack which is looking stale.
Öskar
Can’t recall who said it now (or whether it was original for that matter) but I did like ‘The Middle Eastlanders” as a name for Shitty, very apt!
Öskar
Okay, it was the holic himself, and “Middle Eastlands” to be exact. Nice one!
Öskar
quit talking to yourself oskar 🙂
Oskar, he scored against l’poo three weeks ago. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree regarding Santi. Seems a bit myopic to me. Having Santi and Ozil in the same squad is an embarrassment of riches, if you ask me.
BMBD
@42 … I fucking love Giroud too.
I don’t get screaming about individuals when the team as a whole is performing. Yes Santi is off form but it’s not like he is scoring own goals. Relax dude, everything is fine.
Cheers holic!
We should send Santi to play with the reserves? And I thought I heard it all yesterday.
And ‘what does Arsene have against Theo?’ I wonder what he has against his captain too. And Monreal. And Fabianski. And Viviano. And Sebastian Squillaci as well as every other human being on earth who can’t fit into the Arsenal starting XI at the moment.
AW Hawkins, good stuff. You should comment more often.
I’m annoyed at what I believe were the wrong tactics in Naples, the same tactics we’ve employed for years now – playing for draws or holding on to what we have when we’re ahead – regardless we have come unstuck many times. As Einstein said “Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity”.
Everyone knows we’re at our best when attacking, especially when we have a great attacking side, as we have now. Sure, it was a priority not to be badly beaten, but there was no real reason why we shouldn’t have tried to score against a team that was bound to be coming forward most of the time. Not only did we nearly stuff up completely, but I doubt we’re in a particularly good mental state for the weekend.
AW has an amazing gift for management, but he also has a cautious streak in him which sometimes gets the better of him. As it did against Napoli, a side we should have comfortably outplayed.
Öskar
Higuain on finally realising he joined the wrong team:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/11/napoli-arsenal-champions-league
If Santi could demonstrate the riches he undoubtedly possesses more often, Lonestar, I’d love to be embarrassed by having him in the same side as Özilla. But I demand more of our midfielders than just one goal and no assists in 19 games – especially from one as genuinely talented as Cazorla.
On his day Theo has proved a bigger threat than Santi (this season at least) and I cannot fathom AW’s reluctance to start him ahead of the Spaniard instead of bringing him on in the 75th minute when he’s lucky to touch the ball more than a couple of times. Or not bringing him on at all when we really need to score, as in Naples.
Theo is no Messi but he would be a big loss if he left the club, and I can see him wanting to if this keeps up much longer.
Öskar
Thank you ‘Holic. That’s what they might as well call a Pyrrhic victory, the amount of good it did them. Bring on our next round match :-).
Arsenal made it a group of death as much as Dortmund, Napoli and Marseille (If they had gotten their acts together). Its not like its a wonderful achievement. I mean its great but its not out of the top. It’s not right to think we’re minnows (sort of) in this group. We’ve qualified great. We’re runners up, not that great. Who wouldn’t want to play Olympiacos (away first by the way) and go play a Barcelona, Bayern etc. Let’s face it, we shot ourselves in the foot yesterday but we can still pick it up by SIGNING A STRIKER!!!. And yes! I am back to talking about Giroud. I mean hard work only gets you so far. Clearly, we need more. We need better. We deserve better.
Thank God I don’t worship @ d same church with you guys. I can’t imagine what Cent wulda done to me if he saw me yesterday. When I said God help Wenger, I meant from the press and the WOBs. I know we’re “a f**king team” but Wenger manages this team and he gets paid millions too. Its our job to rant. Its his job to contain the rants. Hehe. I do pray we don’t lose to both Citeh and Chelsea, just for my heart’s sake. It won’t get any worse than that really. *whispers* except we lose to spurs in the cup. Cheers all.
I have just knurd through this bar. A number of excellent comments that I agree with wholeheartedly. I started to note them down but the list has become too lengthy to reproduce here.
In short: Everyone knows…
…apart from those who don’t.
Roll on Saturday and a result at Man¢iti.
COYG
Pyrrhic indeed Poppet.
Jesus H Christ on a fucking motor bike with a popsicle stick, had a bit of a readaround online and the way some are going on you would think we were not just knocked out yesterday, we were also deducted ten points in the league. Bloody hell.
H, spot on with your report as always.
Poppet: spot on – those who think everything is lost just because we finished second in the group might do well to consider why all the Napoli players were in tears after the final whistle.
El Magnifico, if you don’t want to worship wherever the fuck that is you just scrawled feel free to fuck right off to where you feel comfortable, cunto.
Beautiful qualification from the group of death when everyone wrote us of.
I really hope we draw Barcelona. It’s our time to beat them. I said I wouldn’t go back to the shit hole that is their stadium – but, you know what, that little hotel just off Diagonal and another week in the North Spanish sunshine in February has huge appeal. But wait a minute – I’m golfing in Florida in February! Damn this retirement life 🙂
Nice report, Holic. I thought that Arteta’s sending off was a joke. These foreign refs just love the drama of a red card and the prospect of appearing worldwide on television waving the same.
‘holic knows too; @63
Cheers! Not our best performance, but through indeed which is all that matters at this stage: we will take whatever comes our way in the next round.
Time to refocus on the League.
Well we got the result even if it wasn’t the result anticipated by many.Various debates going on.Jenks found himself often on his own 2 against 1 ,I am not a great fan of Theo but I really thought this was game he should have been introduced early second half and that it was cruel to keep him warming up practically the whole of the second half.I have been impressed with his performances since coming back from injury ,really putting it in an all round effort and not trotting about and resting on his laurels.Arteta often takes a yellow and afterwards lenient refs remember that he has got a yellow .From my viewpoint it was a definate yellow.If it had been a Napoli player who had committed the same foul not many of us would have accepted him not being shown the card even if he already had one .
Disgraceful treatment of the Arsenal supporters by the Italian authorities.
Will try to give more details later but have to go get a train to Rome now.
Simmer down sir… I really thought you’d recognise the sarcasm there. Apologies if you didn’t. I was saying that beacuse of a Cent comment on your post yesterday. I am afraid of you guys here. I thought we were all drunks having fun. Well dats my last comment here today. Unto your next post.
N.B: I am liking Oskar’s comments on this post tho
S’funny could have sworn there was some twat on here earlier playing the biscuit game with himself. Must have been mistaken.
So Theo is gonna ask for the off (months after signing a new contract), because he’s not getting enough game time, after a serious injury involving surgery? And that Santi bloke, what a waste of space he is? Think I’ve heard it all now.
Well I had till El Magnifico jumps in with his ‘simmer down spiel’. I don’t think holic’s the only one to mistake the complete absence of genuine sarcasm in the previous post; – ‘we deserve better’? Puke inducing.
Esso@69 – Further evidence that we get the best trolls in the bar.
COYG
Santi.
As much as I like him, I can’t just ignore the fact that he is not in great form at the moment.
To be fair, it doesn’t help him being deployed on the left wing, chasing opposition players up and down the pitch, helping Gibbs in defense, trying things in offence, working hard in midfield.
Even though we signed him as a winger, he produced his best football of his career last year, playing for Arsenal, in the middle as an ATM.
That is his natural position and I am sure Arsene knows that. If that means that Ozil needs to be moved for Cazorla to flourish and find his best form than I am up for it.
By moving Ozil, I didn’t mean on the bench of course, but maybe as a striker, false 9, or whatever it is called this days. If Fabregas can play that for Barca than Ozil can do it for us. He has the attributes. Not in all games for sure, but in some definitely. Last night comes to mind for example.
That leaves a space for using extra midfielder in the set-up, and if we have a part of the field with plenty of options to choose, it is in midfield.
Anyway, if this is not the right idea, than Arsene needs to think of something else to use Cazorla the right way. Because I feel he is wasted and unproductive at the moment.
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a
person who sows discord on the Internet by starting
arguments or upsetting people, by posting
inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages
in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or
blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate
intent of provoking readers into an emotional
response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-
topic discussion…errr okay
We were ordered by the club to not make our way independantly to the stadium but to assemble at a set point as has happenned at other away matches in Italy in the past.The meeting point was the Maritime port station.As my feet were a bit tender due to new Doc Martins I took the bus to meeting relying on other passengers to tell me where to get off.Wrong move I was told to get off way too early.So long walk amont the dark harbour front full of parked container trucks.Found the meeting point,handily there was a couple of bars at hand.I had the Time to visit the gents(overflowing!) and order a beer before we were ordered to get in the coaches.Necked the beer before being frisked by the massed guardia police before boarding buses.The buses were about as packed and comfortable as my feet in my shoes.We were kept penned in thèse buses for an hour most of us standing.Temperatures and tempers rose in equal measures.Eventually after several false starts we got going.those with Google maps on their phones réckoned we were about 15 mins from the stadium but were dismayed when we started heading in the opposite direction.Instead of heading west were heading east on to the ringroad. An hour later after the overloaded buses had laboured up hills and never broken out of 3rd gear we arrived at the stadium for kickoff. But….having already shown tickets ,passports and been frisked at the harbour we thought we would breeze into the stadium,thînk again,after queing,showing tickets, being frisked again being funnelled and then staggered entrance to loads of stairS we found our sénats Higher up in the stands with the running track in between. Ironically we were in the section “ospiti’ which would Suggest links with hospitality,sadly lacking. Iwas one of the lucky ones being on the second bus of five and only missing 7 mins but those on the last bus must of missed the first twenty.there were some young hotheads amongst us but luckily they were in the minority so a riot was avoided. The worst thînk about this is that it was totally préplanned and coordinated that we arrived after the kick off to make their policing easier .I hope that AFC take up this aberration with the european and Naples authorities and at least refund the match tickets price.
After the match much the same waiting but less crowded buses,we were dropped off at the harbour at 1am with 2 taxis to transport 750 gooners back to various hôtels. So most of us ended up walking or on m’y case limping painfully to our hôtels. Quiet walk back only being accosted by ladies of the night. Luckily the only place to get a beer at 01h30 in Naples was à kebab house opposite my hotel.
Right I have got to catch à flight so I will not Check before sending
Crazy story Washed up. Hope the lessons are learned. You don’t go for a beer and kebab in a brand new Doc Martins.
Anyone else noticed the fear and agony in Ozil’s face after Arteta’s red card and later in the game. He was terrified about the possibility that we might finish third and play Europa League with Sp*rs.
Esso, cheers geezer.
Sorry to hear that Washed Up, but not surprised as it was obviously widely tweeted last night. Something needs to be done about the situation in Italy these days.
Washed Up
Sorry for you tale of woe and for all of the other boys and girls of TTF who suffered in a similar way.
I really hope a few of you get together and make the right approach to The Club so that they can follow-up on your behalves.
Safe journey home, as always magnificent support that came across loud and clear on my dodgy stream.
UTA!
A sad tale WuiF.
Safe travels home, sir.
Congratulations to the team on a job well done – not the lifeless second half display yesterday but for getting out of the toughest of toughest ECL groups with credentials fully restored!
I admit I was wrong to doubt the Wenger-Meister back when the draw was made. As it transpired, there was nothing between the 3 sides, and no matter what happens in the round of 16 (of which there is next to no hope of progression if the last three years are anything to go by, but still with our thin squad, that may aid our championship challenge) qualification from the group should be recognised and duly applauded by all those who thought it was an improbable task at the outset.
The last 30 minutes were worrying last night in so far as in, rugby terms, Napoli were able to roll us back and turn-over the play to ensure we could not cross the half-way line, and some players look out on their feet come the end of the contest. If Arsenal now get a draw at the Etihad that will be some accomplishment after the phyiscal efforts the team has gone through over past two matches.
WU@73 – Sorry to hear that tale.
A disgraceful but sadly entirely predictable experience.
I have a good friend who has followed Arsenal all over Europe who will simply never again go to an away game in Italy.
I do think all others should adopt his approach and that the club should be asked to inform Italian opponents that no Arsenal fans will be contributing to their economy.
Excellent report ‘holic and under different circumstances I would have been livid with the referee.
Fact is, there are just too many referees in the Champions League to provide true accountability. Other than Neapolitan-style accountability, I mean. 😉
David.
Tip of the hat for eating the humble pie, have a glass of milk on me to wash it down. 😉
But then you go on to our chances in the next stage;
of which there is next to no hope of progression……
Forever the optimist. 🙂
That is what being an astute pundit is all about, I studied the form, looked at the squads, assessed the managerial ability and made the assumption we were weaker than the other two.
Oh come one, Barca Real, Bayern, PSG, Athletico…we will be the outsiders whoever we play. In terms of the order I would ‘prefer ‘ to play the hit list is as follows (least favourite option is bottom):
– Athletico (Europe’s up and coming side)
– PSG (leave aside Zlatan we can give this mob a match)
– Bayern (we know we can beat them on our day & we have a score to settle so I secretly hope for this tie)
– Barca
– Real
Yes i would rather face Barca than Real as the Catalans are not the force they once were and Real are for me the better side this season.
Can I wash the humble pie down with orange juice? 🙂
BTW, good debate across the web this week over whether our point at Everton was a good or a bad one – for me it was the latter as although Everton were the better side, Giroud missed two sitters and after going one up so late on to then let it slip was almost footballing criminality.
David,
In my earliest years as an Arsenal fan, I saw us lose cup finals to Swindon, Leeds, Ipswich, West Ham and Luton Town.
In the same era we beat Liverpool and Manchester United.
If all games were predictable and could be worked out on paper / computer stats, we may as well all go and do something else.
Cheer up, mate, and enjoy.
The Champions League is supposed to be about great nights playing Europe’s elite.
Actually on championship manager I am virtually unbeatable in South Amercia (the true hot-bed of the beautiful game) – love managing clubs in Argentina.
Moving on, conclusions from the past two matches: Arteta can’t cut it playing as the sole defensive midfielder as on Sunday he was dreadful, Giroud needs a holiday aka a rest, what is it going to take for Carzola to dropped to be bench as he is having about at much effect as someone out injuried, Jenkinson is getting up to speed again after an iffy outing against Hull.
Wow, we have an astute pundit in the bar.
Oxymoron, I think it’s called.
We’re through. Time to point the guns outwards.
“The Champions League is supposed to be about great nights playing
Europe’s elite.”…..and to win it.
*looks*
*shudders*
*exits stage left*
In his postgame comments, AW made a telling point — Napoli were also in the “caught in two minds” trap after they scored. And with the fat Spanish waiter at the helm, you just knew that Rafa would feel that the risk of turning a lead into a draw was not worth it while BVB were still tied. Thankfully the Klopps left it to late, so little time was left for Napoli to release its own handbrake.
Also, Arteta’s absence in the home leg of the round of 16 tie could prove a blessing, as AW would be forced away from the Arteta/ Flamini defensive structure into a more offense-minded side. For as good as all the opposition teams are, they are all (maybe Bayern excepted to a degree) eminently attackable. PSG would be my choice, as the away match would be less daunting there.
For some reason I am annoyed as fuck about coming second in the group.
Really hope we draw PSG or Athletico Madrid
Washed up @ 73: quite bizarre and so unfortunate but somewhat in tune with the reputation of the city and the club. However whatever doesn’t kill you make you stronger etc. 🙂 You make us all proud!
Four wins and two losses in the group stage and yet so much negativity! Yesterday’s performance in the second half was poor, and psychologically nowhere near the best display this team is capable of. But these are human beings, not images of some pre-programmed entities in your fucking game console, and in a football match of this type it is all about the small margins. We had used the away at Dortmund performance as the blueprint of this match but a bit of uncertainty about the approach in the later stage undid the good work. It happens.
People who are so easily slating off Santi should note that despite things not quite working for him in the final third he still contributes significantly by protecting the ball well — in defense, in attack as well as in transition — especially in tight spaces. His final delivery or his runs or his otherwise very accurate shots are not yet of the quality expected of him, and him and Ozil are still figuring out how best to play with each other, but only by playing with each other they will figure it out. He was quite magnificent last season and I am sure he has earned enough of our support and goodwill and patience.
Against Man City the team selection would be really interesting…I would love to see Nacho as I think he will be a better bet down that flank against Nevas as he is positionally and tactically more matured than Gibbo, who still finds himself in odd places in the pitch and doesn’t always recover well. I think instead of playing through the middle Pellegrini would try to use the flanks especially with Nevas and a somewhat rejuvenated Nasri.
It is never a blessing, in my opinion, to have a player suspended, especially when said player is our assistant captain.
BTW, Higuain’s goal yesterday was very similar to couple of Poldi’s goals last season. Hoping to see him come off the bench against City, hopefully at a time when we have already wrapped off the match!
Fingers crossed really looking forward to a great second half of the season from Poldi.
The only teams I wouldn’t like to meet are Bayern and Atletico.
I know we beat Bayern last season, but that was after they wiped the floor with us and accumulated such a strong lead. They’ve contested 3 out of the last 4 CL finals. Last year they thumped Barca 7-0 enroute to the finals and the only thing you could say about the manner of the victory was that it could easily have been more!
They are the team everyone has to measure up to and I wouldn’t be reading too much into Citeh’s victory midweek. There was nothing to play for.
And for me Atletico are the real dark horse in the tournament. They’re joint top of La Liga and I think Diego Simeone has done a superb job there. That man is already wanted by some of the top clubs in Europe. They’re a hard grafting team and don’t give an inch.
That said, I’m sure all the group winners will be wanting to avoid us!
@93 … I meant wrapped up the match.
Cent @ 92: I never understood when apparent ‘supporters’ think that one of our players getting suspended or injured is ‘blessing in disguise’. It is like finding a blister on the sole of your feet blessing in disguise because you now don’t have to walk.
Sorry to hear about your troubles in Naples, WUiF, wishing better away days ahead.
Good stuff from ‘holic, Esso, TS, Lurky, Trev, Zico , H2H, Bath, 8ball and Dr F. Cheers fellas.
Dr F @95, it baffles me no end too.
Nobody is up for the century, or are you all lurking?
Alright, here is the assist…
Very tired, but manages a shot…
Oh yes, scored despite being in the red zone!
Heh. Well in, Lars!
Some bizarre stuff on here which prompted me to check I had not ingested hallucinatory substances. As far as I can tell I haven’t but then if I had would I be able to check properly?
Trev ,as is often the case, makes a great point about Cup Finals . I remember us beating Juve in Turin and losing to Valencia and beating Liverpool over four games and losing to West Ham who were in the Second Division. Arsenal always do things the hard way and often stuff up the straightforward.
I well remember seeing the draw unfold for the Group of Death and shuddering when you looked at the Mickey Mouse groups some of the other English sides got. Interesting to see if United or Chelsea would have gone through from our group. I think United would have struggled and Chelsea lost twice to Basle. Steaua hadn’t won for 23 CL games before Chelsea thrashed them 1-0 last night.
We’ve done well to qualify but didn’t seem to get our attitude right last night in the last part of the game. The estimable Per admitted as much after the game . A day on I think we could probably do pretty well against most of the potential opposition. Atletico are good but so are we and I quite fancy Barca or seeing that show pony Ibrahimovic back here. Barca were a much better side when we beat them at home or might have eliminated them without an idiotic referee or if TGSTEL had a first touch. We are a better side now than we were then and Barca aren’t as good. Real might give us problems but United might have put them out if they hadn’t had a man sent off ( Nani?) when they were leading.
Bayern are the class act and we drew3-3 with them last year.
So let’s be positive and think that there are five sides all hoping desperately not to draw Citeh or ourselves in the last 16.
I was at a much lower ebb when we got drawn at the Bernabeu in 2006 and the rest is history. And it means we will see a couple of classic ties. Let’s remember that in this group we won in Dortmund and easily beat Napoli. And we reduced the Marseille tie to a training game.
The big concern I have is that especially in Europe the rules on tackling are so strict that lots of wrong decisions are made and lots of sendings off result which distort and disfigure potentially great games. There are far too many yellow cards for a sport in which physical contact is an essential part( or used to be)
The names of some of these clubs in the Europa League sound like they must be craters on the dark side of the planet Neptune. Tottenham Hotspur, for instance.
When this place has that effect on a top fella I have to wonder what it’s all about. 🙁
The stench of spolit brat amongst some Arsenal fans is over-powering.
All most of us in here wanted from this season was to be back competing and yet here we find ourselves top of the league by 5 points and succeeding in a group that all the astute pundits told us was the Group of Death.
And is it enough for some?
Feck, I am loving watching this team but I do find myself wondering what some fans actually want. I mean, if and when we do win the league again, will some still complain that we didn’t win it “well enough”?
Bring on the Manchester Sheiks.
zico – I think you have fair point there and I am quite certain some fans will complain about that or will tell that Arsenal “won it despite Wenger” etc ..should that actually happen.
Reading some comments regarding yesterdays game I have the very same feeling ..it is quite easy to get used to your team playing so well we have been so far this season.
I think that some of the fans which are moaning now should think back to the day right after Villa game and realize where we are now and how the feeling in and around the club changed since start of the season.
Of course it would be better to qualify from the first place in group but thats life and as much as is true that it would be better to play some of the “big” boys later in the stages of the tournament, who can be so sure that we would actually progress there against one of those “weaker” sides (I personally believe we would but thats another point).
In the end you have to beat those hard opponents sometime if you want to progress far in CL and you can look on it from different perspective. Kickicking out strong opponent of Bayern/Real/Barca calibre in the first round could have very much the same effect the away victory at Bayern last year had, plus you have one less opponent to worry about.
So once again, we are sitting 5 points clear on the top of the PL and just qualified from toughest group in CL which included last years finalist and probably one of the best sides in Europe currently, then massively improved side from Italy, winning 4 of 6 games and reducing home game against Marseille to training match.
Happy days and it is good to be a Gooner, bring on Citeh!
Zico knows.
Fear not, ‘Hols. This establisment is still an oasis for the weary and downtrodden…or thirsty.
BMBD
Besides, Esso was just stepping out for a smoke… 😉
BMBD
Zico @106, I’m not a betting man but I can stake my life savings on people moaning about something when we win the League.
Zico certainly knows. My Dad used to say ‘ Son you support your team through thick or thin- mostly thin! ‘
Not a lot of today’s supporters. They just want unlimited success in two leagues in which petrodollars have changed the name of the game. Radically. Sure we feel frustration and in this bar we debate the cause of that frustration but like supporters do not spoilt prima donnas who expect perfection every time we step on the field.
The first part of the season has been way better than I expected and will be even if we lose the next two. But if we were to take four points it would be brilliant. But even if it hadn’t been it wouldn’t have dimmed my enthusiasm. I’m just a Goonerholic like so many here!
Well said, Ttg.
I find people moaning very similar as people moaning about people moaning.
Off to get my coat.
Once more, my list of people who know overflows.
Well said indeed Ttg. Unfortunately we do seem to have a an extremely opinionated bunch of keyboard warriors amongst the fan base who just love to be negative but they are not worth getting upset about. The clue is in the name…supporters support their team in good times and in bad and I like to think the brilliant bunch who regularly comment here are more typical of the sort of person who follows our great club.
I think coming second in the group works in our favour. We are guaranteed a super glamorous tie against one of Europe’s football elite. If we win we take their seeded route to the following stage knowing that we are capable of winning the tournament and if we lose then we are free to concentrate on chasing the domestic crown.
Likewise, going to Middle Eastlands on Saturday can also work in our favour. Any away tie coming so soon after Naples would have been very tough and a potential points dropper. Anything we can get from City will be a massive bonus as it is the hardest away fixture on the list. If we lose on Saturday, well, it was always on the cards anyway and won’t derail our title challenge, if not, cue a massive confidence boost for the game against the Chavs. This gooner’s glass is definitely half full and every day I thank my God for St Arsene of Wenger
Current pet hate: Pundits prefacing their inane remarks with ” For me “
I’ve heard yesterday that “12 points do not assure progress from the group stage” never happened before!
Glass half empty? Sure not here 🙂
Besides, we are top of the league!
Errr, sorry… can’t resist…
For me, chris knows
Where did I put my bloody coat?
COYG
zico@86 – I think you can drop the “oxy”.
For me, people moaning about people moaning about people moaning is well worth moaning about !
* runs off dodging beer glasses and spittle *
Ttg and Trev spot on, as usual. Zico, eandy too.
Onto the next match. Early game Sat. – Bloody Marys and football!
Rumours are Sagna is back for Citeh.
Terrific if true
122-ttg Hope Sagna is fit and ready to go. The Corporal had a torrid week and maybe with Sagna in at RB, Arsene might be encouraged to play Feo in front of him.
Someone mentioned playing Nacho in front of Gibbs,not a bad idea. I wonder if Arteta is up to playing on Saturday, he was another who ran out of steam last night, is age catching up on him?
Should be an interesting line-up against the Oilers.
Over 6000 empty seats at the shit hole this evening. Big club?
My Arse
@109Lonestar Gooner
Heh! Smoking days over (now on Doctor’s orders), but I’m still about, yeah. When there’s a good crowd in the bar, which lets face it is absolutely most of the time, I’ll be back.
I had abuse from Tottenham fans concerning Soldado’s “return to form”.
Firstly he has no form to return to at least in England and secondly this was the Mickey Mouse Thursday Cup in which Spurs may eventually have to play a club above the standard of the Skrill Premier!
That club is refuge for the saddest saddoes on a sad day in Sadland
Correct, ttg, about the Tottenham saddoes.
I did point out a few days ago that even Soldado’s name is an anagram of Old Sado. 😉
Thanks all. Really appreciated.
Has Filthy Percy refused to play until he is transferred out in Jan?
Or just finding the same level of form he had for 7 years with us?
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/13/robin-van-persie-month-out-thigh-injury-manchester-united
Get back soon, Esso.
Never a wasted word – always bang on.
Heh, washed up,
I only said to someone this morning that, while I wouldn’t wish broken legs on anyone, I would LOVE IT, JUST LOVE IT, if that guy, yes that guy, could just have a season riddled with injuries like he used to with us.
Now, what shall I wish for next ……………
Yaya Toure …… It might be you ……. 😉
Theo & his wife Mel are having a baby, congratulations to them 🙂
Trev
Think positive
Abou Diaby definately deserves some luck with injuries
Big laughs at Soldado’s “return to form”. I think it’s called “finding your level”.
Not feeling overly positive about tomorrow’s game. City’s formidable home form is bad enough, but our lack of rest time is making me very uneasy.
In the circumstances, I think a draw would be an excellent result. Very much looking forward to getting this fixture out of the way so we can get on and thump the Chavs at our place.
COYG
N7
I agree- I think any Gooner would bite your arm off for a draw given City’s form and the other circumstances . But we have our first choice defence available and plenty of flair in front of them
I think a point would be a good result too N7.
We’ve a real chance tomorrow if we retain possession in midfield and prevent them getting forward. That will be key I feel.
My team for tomorrow:
WoJ
Sagna – Kos – Per – Gibbs
Flam – Rambo – JW
Ozil – Giroud – Theo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>