No Heart, No Points
Mar 2nd, 2014 by 'holic
An evening spent in the company of Ken Sansom raised the spirits, but with the arrival of morning the full horror of yesterday’s result once again haunts. The first defeat of the season to a team not directly in competition with us for the Premier League has taken away that hope that we could nick the title by beating all but our rivals. With a testing month ahead of us we face the supreme test. Chelsea and Manchester City will have to be beaten, along with the neighbours, to maintain our involvement to the end of the season.
That looks a huge ask after yesterday’s uninspired performance at what has become a bogey ground for us. However we didn’t lose because of any Indian sign that the hosts may claim to have over us. We lost because on the day we lacked width, pace, and any spark of creativity until the arrival of Mesut Ozil and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain in the second-half. We lost because we conceded a soft penalty (and yes it was, we would have wanted it at the other end). We lost because Stoke appeared to want it more than us.
The benefit of hindsight is a wonderful gift so no complaints here about the starting eleven which looked to be about getting the coolest and most experienced heads on the park to deal with the special challenge that a day at Stoke involves. Any attempt to get Olivier Giroud involving others with his hold-up play came to grief as he was rotationally butchered. Surely Whelan and Adam can expect a call from the FA in the days to come for their thuggery?
That is no excuse, however, for a performance that saw us register just two poor efforts on goal against a team quite rightly in the bottom half of the table. No names, no pack drill, but too many players went missing yesterday. The remaining games in March give them an opportunity to redeem themselves, if selected. All is not lost after the first day of spring but most certainly this squad now facest the sternest test yet of it’s character and desire. A word here for Wojciech Szczesny, far and away our top performer on the day, and exempt from any criticism.
Asked where he thought Arsenal would finish last night, Kenny declared third place, even after being asked “Are you sure?”. I hope he is right. The Arsenal we have seen for most of this season are certainly capable of delivering that, but the prospect of another last day battle for for a top four berth has become more of a possibility after the most disappointing performance of the season.
Fancy a Champions League play-off in the wake of a World Cup? Me neither. Pull your socks up Arsenal. You are much better than you showed yesterday.
267 Responses to “No Heart, No Points”
1st!
Well written, I could not have written such a calm and composed report.
Just one slight thing though – this was the second loss to a team not in direct competition with us. Although I guess you could argue that we lost to the ref and not Villa on the opening day of the season.
An honest and confronting summary of a very poor performance holic.
Unfortunatley The most sobering part of your summary is the thought that somehow stoke wanted it more than us.
How is that possible.
If this team cannot get pumped for the stoke bunch of pricks, then nothing will.
Lars from the last drinks.
You have a point, the use of the word ‘spring’ was erroneous and we have indeed overhauled Tottenham impressively twice in recent seasons. Rereading that post it is knee-jerky
What I was trying to say was we have a flat spot practically every season, which on the whole is followed by a series of turnaround games. I just wanted to vent because I know what this team is capable of and on top of that frustration we lost to that team and that manager!
It’s a bit like my academic achievements in my formative years. Because I sometimes turned in A-grade work, my teachers rightly asked why I wasn’t in the top 3 in my class.
No heart, no points.
That sums it up quite well for me ‘Holic.
I’ve seen you mentioned Giroud hold-up play. Don’t want to be to harsh on the HFB as I actually like his desire and his workrate.
However his hold-up play actually is hold-up play(er). Because for all of his strength and stature all he does is just holds opposition player with his arms when fighting for space. He can’t hold the ball in his feet for more than one second.
That is why he goes for those instant flicks and quick one-twos. Well it is a nice skill, but it is so predictable as he almost always flicks the ball on his left.
I find that segment of his game quite frustrating and he needs to improve drastically.
If I am Arsene I will show him videos of certain Slowpoke Rodriguez aka Mark Viduka who used to play for Leeds. He was one of the slowest attackers I’ve witnessed playing football. But he made great advantage of his disadvantage. For all his slowness he had ability to hold the ball for ages with not one but two opponents on his back and then find available teammate, or create a shot for himself basically out-muscling everyone.
Great report Holic, I shoulda just let you say it!
Our best team and overall squad does have the ability to play top class football and beat top quality sides, so why can’t arsene turn that into a decent winning season. As unpleasant as it tastes and hurts, arsene is now a dinosaur as far as the tactical, conditioning and motivational aspects of the game go.
His top players even try to tell him as they leave and he still doesn’t listen.
He is no longer the ruthless winner he once was and neither is our club. Mourinho put it out there that arsene is now a specialist in failure and wether you like the man or not, is this statement wrong. Arsene has become very skilled at failing our team and our club and the supporters and our transfer markets, but even more disappointing is his special skill for lowering our expectations to accept that top 4 or qualifying for CL for 16 years straight is enough.
Well it didn’t used to be enough in our heyday which most holics on here remember and enthuse over, so why should it be ok now.
The truth is , it shouldn’t be any less acceptable to not strive to win.
We have the club resources to be right in the mix, but we are sliding backwards as sure and accurate as the media pundits can write it. Same time each season and same manner.
It makes you wonder how the fuck this is allowed to happen with no change of plan or manager.
You win arsene , my expectations of the team and club are now lowered.
If we finish above stoke I will be happy.
Good point Lars about Villa, a game already cast to the very back of the mind, although in my defence Villa could have been argued to be contenders on day one 😉
Aussie, you have been heard many times over banging the same drum. Point taken. Move on please.
MOTD showed enough to convince me that small, ball playing, central mid-fielders are totally inept in dealing with motivated, strong, pacey opponents, of lesser quality, who are prepared to give their manager 110% for their cause.
We were just out muscled and apart from TPIG we looked weak. Why didn’t we start with the OX ? Our lack of pace and width was painful to watch and only AOC’s introduction gave us any threat going forward.
My sympathy goes to our loyal away fans who made the trip. Stoke is not a ground where I would willingly join them, I doubt if I would get out unscathed.
In spite of the above I am looking forward to the Cup game against a side with a manager who try’s to play the beautiful game. Let’s put this woeful performance behind us and move on.
As always COYRs
Good right up holic though for me its the first unacceptable defeat since the Villa match. I think an strong case for criticising the starting eleven can be made as without the Flamster we had no midfield bite and with no Serge or AOC no direct thrust and pace going forward.
True that, Holic – we were after all tied for points and goal difference before kickoff in that game 🙂
Apologies Cent, you fell foul of the temperamental spam filter. I have given it a proper slap 🙂
Ah, missed out on first because Cent had a game in hand…
There are some excellent fan write-ups from yesterday dotted around on the net. Good to see the contribution of Wilshire being questioned, for me when Ramsey is back he had to take his place. Arteta has not had a good season, all effort yes but his legs can’t get him to cover the ground for the defensive pivot role – please bring back Flamini into the side and buy someone like Bender in the summer. And as I have said for ages playing the likes of Risicky and Carzola in wide areas is not ideal especially away from home against durable opposition as there is no pacey directness to build territorial pressure going forward – yesterday was a not too fine example of that flooded personnel strategy. When will Wenger learn….finishing 3/4th looks a struggle at present, especially as next four league matches probably won’t yield many wins for us I fear.
Wenger has now been successful for just about 50% of his tenure so he is definitely living on past glories.We are at best flat track bullies and it is so frustrating to hear him purring about the Sunderland display when it was pretty clear that they just did not turn up.We are good enough to look special against that type of opposition but he clearly seems to think that therefore we can do the same against teams like Chelsea,Man City and even Spurs when we are so obviously not good enough.
I know all about the devil you know philosophy but it surely now must be time for a change.If we now have money to spend big I am not sure I want to leave the big money signings to somebody whose first involvement in that type of signing was to spend 42 million on Ozil.
Fair call holic.
Appreciate the opportunity of being able to bang the drum on here. Apologies for the monotone beat.
Hi All
Very dissapointed with the showing from the boys yesterday. I really thought we would win. Totally convinced would properly be a better way to describe it.
It wasnt to be as the barbarians hacked away again and we had no answer to it. Was it no answer ? or just no desire ? I cant make up my mined. Neither question feels me with confidence going into the month from hell.
With Liverpool with nothing else to look at apart from the league and City with 2 games in hand and Chelski doing what the special one does best playing crap football and putting points on the board. This already starts looking like another 4th place which is soul destroying taking into consideration our fine showing all season. With the atitude we showed yesterday we could even put 4th in jepordy.
I cant fathom the linch mob out for AW again after the season we have had. Things dont look good this morning but I have to say “God we love putting together fantastic runs at the end of the season”
So fingers crossed we can do it again !
COYG
Cheers
Nice one ‘holic.
When I thought our form was on the up we crashed down to depths rarely seen this season.
We are on quite a poor run in the league and while I think it’s obvious that this team is much better than last year’s version I’m afraid the end result won’t be that different.
There are, in my opinion, two big, gaping holes in our squad – a striker and a midfield enforcer – and when you add Theo’s and Aaron’s injuries we are just a wee bit light.
We can still do it but as it stands I’d take fourth and hope for FA cup glory.
This summer arsene needs to decide if he wants to go for it or not. We are very close but not quite there yet.
Thanks Aussie.
Holics, Holics, Holics…
Always look on the bright side of life…
BMBD
….and even Spurs when we are clearly not good enough.
Last time I looked we had beaten them both times we played them this season.
Shit performance, shit result yesterday.
We move on.
I expect to see a different outcome next weekend.
cheers
and
howdy ‘hol
i’m glad you shot from the hip
Giroud is not good enough , is he still more interested in football , where is his commitment ? Zero . For what he has done a few week ago , Arsene should cart him aside .
We miss badly Ramsey and Walcott
Very balanced and level-headed report.
It is a brand new day and yesterday’s performance now seem a bit far away. It could be the trick played by memory, pushing unpleasant experiences away from the domain of recall into forgetting. Whatever it was, it was rather unpleasant.
Time for our robust end of season runs in the league of the last two seasons and to confound the critics once more. Last season this time a certain opposition coach was talking about our ‘negative spiral’ and we were written off the top four. We are being written off the title race and yet only four points behind. We have been playing a bit shitty lately but enough time for some tweaks in formation, strategy and a renewed focus on the pace of our game.
Cent, in the last set of drinks you had asked a very interesting question: what is the basis of a post-match comment from a fan about the lack of preparedness? We are not privy to the pre-match preparations so how can we know?
In an objective sense we cannot “know”. But that shouldn’t disable us from trying to “make sense” of the immediate experience we were subjects of. If the team collectively shows no focus, no desire, many of the players not willing to commit to challenges, no awareness that the game is being played according to the opposition’s plan and no attempt to raise the tempo it is only logical to form a causal connection between the preparations for this game, at least in the tactical and psychological aspects, and the dismal showing on the pitch. The “most likely” logical explanation is not necessarily aways the “objectively correct” one that one would make if one had “all information”, but that doesn’t mean in absence of all information one cannot make any conclusion about possible cause.
Yeah!!! Sunderlanddddd~!
‘Holic, nicely put. For the life of me, I cannot fathom why Flamini was not on the pitch. If any fixture calls for a take no shit approach, it’s this one at the Brittania. You could even play both Arteta and Flamini against the Orcs, with Arteta more forward, as Stoke has no pace, and you also start with at least one pacey type (Ox or Gnabry) to stretch things out.
I agree with every word Holic except about the penalty. You can’t say a man a yard away deliberately hand balls a shot fired at him. A goalkeeper would never expect to save a shot in that situation.The only thing I agreed with Hansen about is that nobody knows what the law is now. If that cretin Robbie Savage says it was a penalty it almost certainly means it wasn’t.
But otherwise you are spot- on. It was an awful result and a performance to match. Before we analyse it too much let’s see how other results pan out but certainly this makes Everton much more important than Bayern .
Agreed, TTG – Everton now looks a properly season defining fixture.
Bayonne Jean: We can’t be privy to the pre-game selection thinking, but one reason for not playing Flamini could have been a decision that we didn’t need a double defensive pivot against a team like Stoke that would likely itself play a line of three midfielders in front of two DMs. To avoid overload in the middle third you’d want a midfielder to play higher up the pitch than a DM usually does. For both reasons, Flamini would go to the bench. Arteta is the first choice DM and Wilshere plays higher up the field than Flamini. Such a tactical selection might have looked a lot better were it not for Jack being in such a dismal run of form.
NBN @ 31: Yes, playing both Arteta and Flamini may have been overkill if both playing as the defensive pivot. However playing Flamini as the designated DM in potentially scrappy matches like this has the benefit of a vocal organizer and someone to remind the opposition if they step over the line, which they did.
However, statistically speaking Arsenal have a higher win percentage with both Arteta-Flamini playing together. And I think it works best when Arteta is the more adventurous of the pair and his quite impressive passing (especially flank-switching ones) and vision come more into foray. We have forgotten that Arteta was a very good attacking midfielder.
But you are right if Jack did even some parts of his responsibility as the box-to-box player right the tactics wouldn’t have looked so bad. Jack, IMHO, needs to sit on the bench for a while and fix his game on the training ground and in his head. He needs to calm down, become more composed and improve the off-the-ball discipline.
Socks, ‘Holic. I think you have put your finger on the source of our malaise. The team doesn’t just need to pull up its socks, it needs to change them. Hooped socks make legs look fatter. Fatter-looking legs make players feel their legs are heavier. Heavy legs lack pace. We need to revert to single solid colour socks. Most of our yellow away kits over the years had plain yellow socks with at most a single blue or red band just below the knee where the sock turns over.
A trip through a sartorial memory lane:
http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Arsenal/Arsenal-change-kits.html
Dr F.: Fair point about playing Arteta higher; and, yes, he was a fine attacking midfielder at Everton. But I doubt he is considered to have the legs to last a full game in the box-to-box role these days — and especially if those legs were going to be stamped on every 30 seconds.
Absolutely no disagreement on the remedial measures required for Jack.
NBN : No disagreements about Artera’s legs either. Was impressed with Ox in his showing in that role, but then that deprives us of a genuine winger. Hopefully Rambo will be back in full fitness soon and play with his early season form. Theo’s injury was accidental, but the duration if Rambo’s lay-off has signs of failure at some level in our medical team.
Just want to see a response. And a real one.
Faustus and NBN: thanks, Dr. F, for your superior explanation of the advantage of having both Arteta and Flamini start — not as a double defensive front but with Arteta forward. And yes Arteta no longer has the legs to do box to box consistently, but for ONE GAME, for a particular opponent, against a bunch of slow plodding fouling cloggers, you’re better off with Arteta’s nous and complement that with more pace on a flank. The captain has ample experience with Stoke tactics and could probably have worked the referee to get the Orcs into his book earlier and more often.
Nicely done, Holic.
I haven’t read all the drinks but a big sense of frustration is probably no surprise.
Shared by me, I have to say.
I have said several times lately that I don’t think we are physically equipped to win this league. Against the best, and the toughest, teams we seem to lack the physical stature to properly compete.
although we lack raw pace, we do have players who are capable of moving the ball quickly and very accurately – as with Jack’s goal vs Norwich, and Tomas’ vs Sunderland.
But there is the point: vs Norwich and Sunderland.
We have at least managed to match Tottenham for desire this season, but apart from Napoli, I’m struggling to think when we have gone out with any real tempo and desire against a big team.
I’m tired of seeing our little midfielders bouncing off technically inferior opponents, playing well within themselves and failing to make forward runs past the ball to enable the talents of someone like Ozil to count for something. We cannot expect to score goals when everyone plays and stays behind the ball.
And I’m more than tired of hearing that we must bounce back – again – and it is the response to defeat that matters.
It isn’t actually. Not for this team. What matters is to develop a mentality not to lose in the first place.
This team has developed a psyche that shrinks on the big occasion. Over and over again we are left wondering why our players seem so lackadaisical when there is so much at stake.
I don’t believe they don’t want to win. I do believe they have become so afraid of losing that they now expect to lose on the big occasions.
This is no longer a team of youthful promise. We have a clutch of experienced international captains.
Do we, though, actually have a leader ?
Lightening was never going strike twice.
Sunderland still get Euro football, so they can take somthing out of the match.
Absolutely spot on Trev. This team used go toe to toe with big teams, but that was years and years ago, with the rare exception these days where the opposition play well below their capabilities (5-3 against Chelsea) or the result is largely inconsequential (1-0 vs Man U).
Spot on ‘holic!
Spot on Trev @38.
‘Holic @13, cheers.
Dr F @26, I see your point about trying to make sense of the game we watched but I still disagree about reaching conclusions because I believe it’s never right to conclude without having the necessary information required to reach a fair conclusion. It’s all good suggesting/guessing reasons why we performed badly but saying the team didn’t prepare well for the game whilst staring from the outside is going too far in my opinion.
Nice report Holic. Spot on Trev although be careful. You will get called all sorts of names for stuff like that.
😀
Fact is that the squad we have is good but not good enough. We have had the funds to address the problems for some years now but for some reason we have decided to remain frugal. As I have said for god knows how long now, we seem to always be 3/4 top quality players short. Whilst we have a midfield full of flair we lack both pace and the battling qualities that the balance of the side demands. Yet again, for the umpteenth time this year our shots on target stats are woeful.
I said that yesterday was a must win quite simply because I am far from confident when I look at what we have to look forward to for the rest of March.
It’s time for the “potential” to quite simply grow a pair and step up to plate. Like Trev, I’m more than bored with this “we must bounce back” bollocks. It’s time to see who actually wants it and perhaps more importantly, who actually has the passion for it.
Nice perspective report ‘holic.
Regretfully yet another below par performance from the team. This follows a run of mainly below par performances since the turn of the year. Fortunately though many have stil resulted in points gained, keeping us up with the leaders.
Like Trev, I’ve tried to work out why this is happening as we do have a squad of top players, and his comments at 38 are right on the money. The balance of the squad is too narrow – too many ball players and not enough ball winners and runners.
Our shots on target numbers are simply appalling. We need to pressurise opposing defenders in the area with numbers…a single striker mainly with his back to goal is somewhat easy to defend! We know we lack a really top striker as well as an aggressive / “large unit” box to box midfielder who will take some of the physical pressure off our more diminutive mid-fielders. Let’s hope the team can re-find their mojo and pull off some results against the top opposition coming up in the next few weeks – on recent performances that’s not looking too hopeful.
Nonetheless, will be chuffed to have egg on my face in a months time 🙂
Nice one ‘holic.
I hope Kenny Sansom is doing a lot better now, as the last time I read about him he was, to put it mildly, struggling. Any updates would be appriciated, as Mr Sansom was a firm favourite and one of the stand outs great players in our ranks at the time.
After watching that awful game yesterday I had to jump in the shower, put on my glad rags and head off to Rotterdam for a reunion gig from two clubs I used to appear in way back when. I knew that it would get messy with free flowing alcohol and other various recreationals, and as I was going solo, I decided to take the train, it seemed like a good idea at the time……
However it didn’t seem so bright at 10 o clock this morning when I got stuck, pasted and wasted, the wrong side of Amsterdam due to closures and work on the lines around Schipol. Zico knows, bastard transport system 1 H2H Fucked 😉
Two hours sleep and another day in the bar means I’m a bit groggy, slightly boilked and all together not my usual sunshiney self, so I think I’ll hold back on a reaction to yesterdays game (and some posts that have irrated the shit out of me) for fear of over reaction or posting something I may regret later.
Look at me, I’m growing. 🙂
Enjoy what’s left of your weekend all.
Trev expresses the problem very well. This team seems to lack faith in itself and needs bigger cojones. Reading the extracts from Sol Campbell’s book reminds one what character we had in the 2002-2005 teams— Vieira, Adams, Sol himself, Keown, Bergkamp, Lehmann, Parlour, Gilberto and Lauren were big personalities and big competitors and we then had Henry, Pires and Kanu to provide sublime skill.
I don’t see the same character in this side although there is no lack of skill. Even fighters like Wilshere are hugely inconsistent .Usually I like to see Rosicky out there but he was under par yesterday and I would have thought Flamini was an obvious selection. And joking aside Kjallstrom might have proved very useful in the last few games. It’s now down to Wenger and Bould to set out what they want from the team over the final stretch and for the team to respond as they did last spring
If you look at league results in the top flight over the long-haul, the past 25 full seasons, you will see that the only three clubs to have won more than half their games over that time are also the only three to have won the title more than once (us, the Mancs and the Chavs). United has the winningest record, P966 W591 D216 L159, followed by us, P966 W519 D260 L187. Chavs are P928 W465 D244 L219. So, across that time, we lost barely a game a season more than the Mancs on average and won only 2.9 fewer games. Not a huge difference. Yet it has yielded 13 titles for the Mancs against our five. I am not sure what that all proves, beyond the margins between winning silverware and not winning it are slim at the top-level, but the numbers may speak to some of the points that Trev was making @38.
I noticed that five of our loanees were unused subs or not chosen over the weekend and Wellington Silva has been named among the subs in Spain tonight. Afobe and Park didn’t get a minute of action and Martinez didn’t even make the bench. Makes you wonder either how useful the loan system is or perhaps how good dome of our players really are. Park really was a bizarre signing. He can’t get on the pitch for Watford and he was bought as a first- team player for us.
We’ve not had much luck with South American or Asian players with the honourable exception of Gilberto.
Progressing in the Champions League and the extra fixtures that would bring could be the worst possible thing for this team at the moment even though that sounds counter-intuitive. In theory it looks unlikely but winning in Germany could very will dictate whether we’re fighting for one of the top 3 spots in the league or 4th/5th.
I guess I could debate with myself and say ‘imagine the confidence they’d gain’ – but 6 weeks ago we had confidence and it ebbs.
Hate to say it but please let us field a weakened team in Munich and focus on the trophy in sight and the one that’s looking very difficult after yesterday. Second or Third place and the FA Cup if we’re within 4-6 points of the summit is the best season we’ve had in an age and sets us up well to do even more next season.
I count myself as the most optimistic 5% and until the Stoke match I was sure we would be in this until the final weekend. Now I think we ‘could’ be instead.
Pleased to see that my comments have struck a chord with a few other regulars – and were well complemented by Uply @44.
There is no pleasure in recognising those shortcomings, but the failure to take the big games by the scruff of the neck has become something of an unwelcome consistency.
What is so perplexing is the sense that there is enough skill in the squad to win many of these big games but the players would have to be 100% ‘on it’, in terms of technique and movement, to do so.
Sadly, that rarely seems to be the case.
It says everything about the “quality” of the Premier League that teams as poor as Liverpool and Chelsea lie in the top two positions of the table and perhaps it says a bit about our respective quality that we are where we are.
How ironic would it be if the oft repeated and demanded big money signing of a world class player coincided with our first finish outside the top four since … well it has been so long, I forget when it was.
Of all the players we thought we would miss if injured, who would have thought that Ramsey, and his new found scoring ability no matter how badly he was playing, would have been one and Theo Walcott would have been the other.
We miss pace, width, penetration from deep, goals and chance creation. Those two had all of those between them.
It is still not over. If we have the customary strong finish to the season, and we do have some proper rubbish to play after the City game, who knows… But we must win our next three league games to set it all up.
Fair comment, Cynic.
I’m not sure we’d miss Theo quite so much – which we have – if The Ox was on the pitch more.
Maybe the manager doesn’t feel he is ready to be playing more yet, but he certainly adds something when he does.
Ramsey, as you say, has been a real loss – a fantastic first three months or so.
Martinez is a particularly interesting case, ttg. He is highly rated by Arsenal, Argentina’s first choice under-20 keeper and has been called up to the full side. With Viviano on loan to us and Fabianski in all likelihood off at the end of the season, Martinez has a good shot of being one of the three first team keepers next season. In which case he should be playing week in, week out now to get the experience that all keepers only get by playing. Loaning him out is a good idea. But Sheffield Wednesday was a strange choice for the club to send him to. They have Chris Kirkland as their No 1. Never perhaps the keeper he promised to be as a young man, but still an England international, only 32 and one of the better keepers in the Championship. Martinez is the Owls’ cup keeper. That is not giving him the games he needs. Josh Vickers is better served by being lent to Canvey Island, a non-league side, but one which plays him regularly, just as Brentford did with Szczesny when he was sent out on loan in 2009-10.
Another regular to support you, Trev (if I count after less than two years?) … As I’ve said previously we don’t have a Vieira out there captaining the side and leading by example. And yes we have too many ‘small’ players. In fact we’ve had both problems for all of the years we’ve been suffering. Plus no regular goal scorer since TH14 left, apart from the brief flurry from RvP.
A midfield of TR7, Santi, Jack, Mikel, Gnab etc lacks physical presence, not helped by Jack rolling around making the most of every knock he takes. That just encourages more of the same. Ox is no giant either, but I’ll exempt him and Flam cos they stand up to anyone and get on with the job. When I think we might have signed Yaya Toure years ago when we still had his bro, I do shake my head…
Sure we’ve been unlucky with injuries, but we’re not so alone with that. Rooney and van P have missed a heap of Man U games, Suarez missed Pool’s first two months with suspension, Aguero has only just returned from a lengthy absence, and those are just the ones who come immediately to mind. Perhaps if we had more depth it wouldn’t be such a problem, particularly since it’s our seeming inability to score when we absolutely have to that has us in our present position. And that is down to the most obvious deficiency, the lack of a quality striker … something we’ve been aware of for years but never satisfactorily filled. That we couldn’t have done better than OG and Sanogo in the last two years is bitterly disappointing, especially when we have no problem spending a squillion on a player we never really needed.
Öskar
Ttg … it was a definite pen, mate. It struck Kos’s hand and changed the direction of the ball = penalty.
Öskar
OTD: Changing the direction of the ball does not make it a handball. There has to be intent (such as putting a hand/arm in an unnatural position). Arseblog has a discussion of the call and what makes a handball under News – By the Numbers.
Oskar,
I’m not wanting to rubbish the squad, or any individuals, as they have been capable at times of some amazing football.
The physicality is a problem though, as is the big game mentality.
Getting repetitive now though, so I’m off. Busy day tomorrow.
From FIFA’s notes on interpretation of the handball rule:
“Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)…”
Kos’s movement may have been involuntary but it was movement of he hand towards the ball.
Also, from Graham Poll, on Premiership referee’s interpretation of the handball rule:
“Did the offender deliberately place his arms in an unnatural position to increase the chances of the ball hitting him?
If the answer to that is yes then it is correct to penalise that player even though it used to be argued that was ball to hand.
Kos was making himself ‘big” by holding up his arms. Seems that either way the ref was correct in calling a penalty. But it was a technical offense. No yellow card, note.
The meltdown has started and as ever the blame guy is Arsene Wenger.
This was the same team that defeated sundrland and we were all gloating over sumptuous football and all that and suddenly we got unstuck against a rugby team who should consider themselves to be lucky that they were left with 11 men on the pitch, what the hell was charlie adam doing is beyond belief.
Wenger though got it wrong in the midfield, arteta and jack will not work, jack doesnt have a defensive bone in him and mikel doesnt have the pace to cover or thread a quick pass. Wenger if ox was not injured should have started him or atleast have some pace on the wings in Gnabry, remember pool beat the same team by 5 goals and only by pace.
Jack is my biggest worry, he is our big hope yet he seems to never be able to sort out what he wants to be be on the pitch, box to box, attacking midfielder, wide player or deep lying playmaker, maybe neither he nor Arsene knows on this one.
jack has been way to casual for liking, he needs to be much more stronger with his play but more so needs to keep the game simple, he holds on to the ball far to long and then gets outmuscled or doesnt know what to do with it.He is doing what Aaron used to do before, hopefully he learns the lesson seeing rambo, keep it simple jackie boy, we dont that wow performance all the time.
The Gunners have put themselves in a spot now, suddenly we need to win say 2 of the 3 games against spuds, chavs and city, tough ask considering 2 are away and we dont seem to know how to beat big teams on big occasions.
yet in 10 games if we have the momentum and passion, we can still do what now seems improbable, we have the team, its now upto Wenger and his boys to throw caution to the winds and go for broke, afterall we have more or less blown it away right!!!!!!
Okay I did a bit of back drinking and I must commend Steve. A true supporter who attends games thick and thin. You have come a long way with your comments in the bar over the years. I know it’s hard mate, but well done. I remember some of the battles you used to have in this bar. However, you always tend to argue your statements with thought out evidence, whether it’s agreed upon or not. Lol 😉
Aussie
I have done a bit of back drinking. I have reviewed some of your comments and I can honestly say that I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinions. We are all entitled to a rant for and against. However, not once in all of your criticisms of the manager ( in the last set of drinks. To be fair I have not looked through this bar yet), did I see you suggest or even indicate a solution. Your comments seemed quite personally directed towards the ability of the manager and the supporters who support him.
You also said that the manager has not achieved any of his targets within the last 8 years. By that statement, I believe that means that you know exactly what his targets have been for this past 8 years and you are going to enlighten us.
As for me? Everton at home this Sat anyone?
I do believe I have not sung the managers praises or reverted back to historical stats. 😉
I don’t agree we have to win 2 of the 3 games against spuds, chavs and shitty, Vinay. So long as we keep an eye on the spuds and make sure we don’t drop more than 6 points to them over the remaining 10 games we should have 4th place wrapped up. Beating the spuds would make that even easier of course.
Getting third place depends on Pool falling apart which, on current form, looks unlikely. Frankly I think they will win the whole thing. Going all out to win the title could be counter productive. Of course we should try and win every game we play, but this side seems to lack the mental strength to take losses on the chin and keep on going regardless. A couple of losses in pursuit of the ultimate prize could leave us vulnerable. With shitty’s two games in hand we are already in an effective 4th place and I believe we have to be realistic about where we go from here.
Finishing top 4 has to be the bottom line, and we mustn’t lose sight of that regardless any further upsets while still trying for higher objectives.
Öskar
Oskar@54: Suarez only missed five league games and has started every league game for them since match day 6. And Rooney hasn’t missed that many games either btw, he’s played in 22 of their 27 league games and started in 20 of them.
Trev: I half-agree with you. In SOME of the big games we have come up woefully short, but Tottenham at home (twice), Liverpool at home (twice), Napoli at home, Dortmund away and Bayern while we were 11 v 11 were all great performances in varying ways. However, that does of course not at all make your point invalid because we need to perform in a few more of these big games (and it is also noteworthy that only one of the games I just mentioned was away from home). City away was under special circumstances because the team was totally knackered, but not good enough were ManU away, Liverpool away, Napoli away, Chelsea at home, ManU at home (while understandably subdued it was because of the shit performance v Liverpool) and depending on your definition of “big game” you could also count Southampton away.
Having said that, with a bit of distance to Saturday it is starting to piss me off more and more that Charlie Adam was allowed to get away with his kicking and stamping. He is a Grade A coward who does these things all the time, there are a number of clips out there of him attacking Gareth Bale and a few others in the same manner so this is not just me being a sore loser. Him getting sent off would have changed things dramatically.
I think that the Ox not starting is simply Arsene wanting to make sure we don’t overload him. We have seen it before how players get injured again after playing too much too soon so I guess Arsene wants to be cautious.
Goonertown- in respect of holics request above, I will move on from my well documented thoughts and suggestions about our team.
I know my comments are not in line with many on here, but I enjoy reading and participating on here just the same and for what it’s worth, this is the only arsenal blog I read every single day and night as an arsenal supporter.
I enjoy all the various drinkers on here, I respect opinions on here, even when I don’t agree with and I am slowly learning how to accept disappointing defeats.
Unfortunately I am a slow learner, but luckily Holic has been very patient with my arsenal supporting apprenticeship.
Lars, apart from the big games you mention, in how many others were we turned over with ease? Chelsea and Man U have frequently made us look like mid-tablers over the years. They perfected the art of defending deep while we passed the ball ineffectually around, then nicked it and sucker punched with a quick break.
Can’t argue with the games you mention but i feel they were exceptional.
@Oskar, i dint mean 4th place, i meant we can still win the league, i havent given up on it yet, 10 games 30 points , we get 24 and i think we will win the league, i am worried about games against spuds, everton than the chelshit game. I think pool have to play united, chelsea and city still, chelsea play spuds this weekend and we go there this month, city have the manchester derby, pool and us,at the moment chelsea still are the favourites but even if we get a point at the bridge we can win the league, its upto the team not to buckle under pressure, we need to play with freedom and gusto, we seem so tame in big games, thats my worry.
I hope I am off the mark with this thought which crossed my mind following our poor display on Saturday. How many of our squad had their thoughts on their International appearances on Wednesday, hoping to play well and cement their names in the various squads for Brazil.?
Not wanting to mix it with Stoke and risk injury before Wednesday might well have been on players minds. What do you think?
Don’t think that played any part at all, Delia. Pretty much all our players are guaranteed to go anyway. If you are in the squad for this week you need to be really shit in the game if you are to be taken out of the squad for Brazil as almost all teams select the players they intend to use when it matters.
You think Podolski is going to be in the Germany squad for the WC, Lars?
I’d be quite surprised if he isn’t, Lurky. He’s been in every squad for many years unless he’s been injured, and if he is in this squad he’s not very likely to be dropped now.
Aussie
Good on ya mate. Good on ya.
Have a tipple on me. Let me guess? Fosters? Castle main four X? 😉 If anyone asks, it’s a cool Guiness for me. 😉
Just in the spirit of games remaining. For March, I must say, if we had not lost to Stoke, I would have said, we could have at least said we could have afforded a loss to Chavski, to stay in the race. My barbershop mates reckoned Citeh were the ones to beat. I just hope the confidence has not whittled away just yet. It was good to see Gibbo back on sat, as it looked as though we were going to be short in the left on Sat, but luckily not. My thoughts lately has been that we have been missing Rambo. Good to hear he us slated for a return for the fookin Chavs. He and that Ozil geezer work right well together. On the other hand and slightly off topic, my little GT was put through his paces at the South west soccer school last Sunday by the new Portugese coach down there. He then scored a good few goals during training down at his Kent club on the Wednesday. This was after a good two month rest. Looks like a world beater again.
It’s also good to see Theo’s development is starting to ring through Steve. But yes, this summer will be very important. Let’s just hope we do our business early, so as to catch the early worm. 😉
Steven Nzonzi believes Arsenal are still soft and insists Stoke City will continue to “kick” Arsene Wenger’s side in future matches as they cannot handle rough treatment.
“They don’t like it, we know that. We don’t care. We’ll keep on doing it, being strong and trying to be as good as we can be on the ball.”
—————————————–
Flamini should have played and taken him out.
Here’s hoping we beef up our squad next season, we need strength in depth and a proper striker.
Just have to settle for the FA cup and CL this season 🙂
Hi all
Walcotts absence has added to our woe`s with Ramsey out as well, 2 very attack minded players who could of changed things for us Saturday. There was still quality out there no doubt but it was all very predictable and easy to hault in its tracks.
Passing is like dancing *maybe* quick quick slow, however slow slow slow is easy to combat even a team like Orce FC can handle that. we were missing the overlap and the darting midfield run which Ramsey had down to a T.
Giroud is a good target man but when no one is running beyond him or off him it does make his job that much harder as he doesnt have the touch of DB10. So when the ball is played to him the rest of the team needs to stop playing statue`s and help out more. He has taken alot of criticism of late which some is deserved but his work rate cannot be questioned, what else can you ask of him ? He is not the most technally gifted player and we know that so why keep beating him up over it and look abit more closer at the midfield.
Poldi has far more to answer for *when he does get the chance to play* and in that may be the answer. He seems to be lacking the desire at the moment, I think I would bite the bullet and give him a decent run in the starting line up as this could only help and he dose tend to stick to his position given extra cover for the LB. Santi always gose walk about and is defensively niave most times, Santi needs to take up his position in the middle and give Ozil more to think about. The Ox has to start every game end of !
He has been our most dangerous player in the last few games, he has been out much of the season so should be right up for it which he seems to be.
For God sake please get Sagna to sign a new contract.
COYG
Cheers
Happy Birthday Delia.
So, maybe our transfer people did know what they were doing;
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26414167
BB, N’Zonzi plays for Stoke. That tells you all about how much attention you need to pay him.
And happy Birthday, Delia!
H2H: if John Henry is telling the truth about the clause then we are, at the moment, competing with two clubs propped up by blood money and one team who openly admits to and even brags about being dishonest.
“The beautiful game”, I believe they call it.
H2H @ 77: Now watch this bit of ‘factual’ information getting underplayed, and in some quarters not even acknowledged. They just didn’t want to sell him at any cost because this was their chance of getting back in the CL position which would mean much more than whatever 40+ anyone was willing to offer.
Anyway, water under the bridge.
Arsenal1971 @ 75: The best way to make most of a technically limited player like Giroud, especially when we are playing him centrally to our attacking aspirations, is to play a bit more to his strengths. The cute flicks and interchanges are good and work well sometimes, but when they don’t crosses in the box with someone else joining him in the attack as well as runners from midfield to pounce on clearances would be a very useful strategy. Running behind defenders and providing cutbacks — Giroud attacks the near post well and have scored quite a few goals this season that way — with again multiple players in the box would be another good idea too. Against Stoke before Ox came in except for Gibbo once or twice in the first half no one even attempted to run behind the defense.
77 H2H So what is the legal position on this.According to your link
“A buy-out clause in a contract typically allows a player to leave a club if a stated minimum transfer value is met – but Liverpool insisted last summer that there was nothing in Suarez’s contract obliging them to sell the player”
and now John Henry is claiming
“Arsenal offered £40m and one pound for him and triggered his buy-out clause,” said Henry.
“Since apparently these contracts don’t seem to hold, we took the position we’re just not selling.”
There seems to be a bit of bare faced lying from the Liverpool boardroom.
Could Messrs Sue,Grabbit and Run get involved or would J Henry have screened his remarks legally before putting them in public.
Lars @ 79: Was thinking the same, quite blatant really:
But speaking as part of a panel at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference at the weekend, the 64-year-old American said: “I don’t know to what degree I should go into this – but [Suarez] had a buy-out clause of £40m.
“But what we’ve found over the years is that contracts don’t seem to mean a lot in England – actually not in England, in world football.”
washed up @ 81: Reading between the line, I think what Liverpool’s owner is saying is that he had legal advice that assured him these contracts are not as binding as it may apparently seem.
I have often thought that to be the case, everything boiling down to how much a Club can convince a player to stay or play hardball. Liverpool did both, as this was really their ticket back to CL.
It had always puzzled me that one Lars.
Our people had it on good authority (suarez’ agent apparently) that such a clause exsisted, the sum was (as now confirmed) 40mill, they went above that with the, by now infamous, plus 1 pound bid. We acted properly.
Liverpool however did not, they made it public and turned it ugly, doing it so well in fact that even sections of our own support doubted the validity of the bid or even if said clause even ewxsisted. Our credability took a major hit due to their shananigens.
Never trust a bin dipper.
wash’.
I’m not sure of the legal ramifications of such a clause. I don’t think a bid means they are obliged to sell, but it does mean that the interested party. can start discussions with said players people with a view to a move.
They still have the power to veto a move unless the player forces the issue. (as far as I know).
Happy Birthday Delia 🙂
Many happy ones, Delia 🙂
so basically a release clause is similiar to an oral contract
not worth the paper it’s written on!(thanks to Groucho Marx)
Also the way he disses the law when it was a legal process that provided him with Liverpool on the cheap in the first place.
I was disgusted as I so often am by TalkShite this morning . Warlock and Brazil were laughing about the fragility of Arsenal and how they could still be roughed up because they were soft. The zeal with which they conducted the conversation was sickening. Not for nothing is Neil Warnock an anagram of Colin Wanker. A man who has achieved nothing of any note in football
Very good article http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-piers-morgan-david-moyes-3202018
Hi All
My understanding of the clause is the same as H2H, it gives the player the option to talk to the club making the offer. However I dont believe we were given that option at all, but that is now history and Bitey man would only have to say he wouldnt of signed for us and there cannot be any legal ramifications as its only an option and nothing more.
So the point of these clause`s ?
Answers on a postcard
Cheers
Piers…hah! : http://i.imgur.com/7NMAgOb.jpg
Piss off Morgan, what a twat !
Glance up at Old Trafford and see what happens when a good manager leaves * love Fergie or hate him his record cannot be argued*
We have an excellent manager who i for one do not want to change, is he perfect ? No ! Is there anyone out there better ? No!
Cheers
H2J/A1971: what the clause says and means is something we can not know without seeing the actual contract, and very possibly not even then.
A few thoughts on John Henry’s comments:
* Bear in mind it’s possible it’s all just self-aggrandizing bollocks. The PFA looked at Suarez’ clause and publicly stated there was no obligation to sell. Liverpool are fond of publicly bigging up how clever they are.
* Assuming what he says is true, we were absolutely correct to bid the amount we did. I’ve seen some suggest that it was still a bad idea and we should have bid £50m to be taken seriously. If a club who have a player with a contract saying he can leave for £40m+1 won’t sell him to you for £40m+1 then I think it’s a pretty massive leap to suggest that £5m or £10m more would definitely have done the trick.
* I’ve seen people asking if we could sue Liverpool. Of course not. We’re not parties to Suarez’ employment agreement. Suarez, as the injured party, would have needed to sue.
* In terms of Henry’s comments about the clause, I think there are two possibilities: (a) he has had advice that release clauses in English law footballer employment agreements would be hard to enforce if push came to shove; and (b) regardless of the enforceability of the clause, Liverpool simply decided they would dig their heels in. For Suarez to force his move he would have needed to take them to court, prove the legitimacy of the clause and hope Arsenal were still hanging around by the time he had done so (I suspect it would not have been a fast process). It would have been extremely risky for the player, so Liverpool effectively eyeballed him down.
* Regarding the enforceability of these clauses, the only legal argument I can think of that would undermine a clause entitling a player to leave when a third party offers a certain amount of money is the UK law prohibition on “agreements to agree”. If Liverpool, or any other club, could argue that the headline figure being offered is only one component of the deal, and that there are others (e.g. payment schedule, buy out of image rights, etc, etc) they might be able to demonstrate that the clause leaves room for them to negotiate with the prospective purchaser but fail to reach agreement. I suspect the days of the average football transfer being as simple as “here’s a few million quid, now give us the player” are a distant memory.
All very hard to make sense of without having seen the clause. We have very little concrete, reliable information and we haven’t heard the player or Arsenal’s side of the story, so I’m wary of jumping to too many conclusions.
What I will say is that a clause of some description clearly exists, so I think that the hammering the club has taken for their handling of the negotiation is unwarranted. I’ve advised numerous clients of a similar or larger size to Arsenal on broadly similar legal issues, and I would have been laughed out of the room if I’d ever told them to pay more than the amount stated in a prescriptive contractual requirement. No business spends more money than it needs to – or at least not the ones that tend to stick around.
None of the above an excuse for the failure to sign a striker in the summer, by the way. If anything, it’s a case study in the need for a plan B – you wonder what our season might have looked like if we’d asked QPR for a loan of Loic Remy, for example.
Hope that all makes sense.
Lars94:
Without seeing the contract you are 100% correct, my understanding was just conjecture on somthing I read quite a few years ago.
BB, that was a good read! Clarkson may be a bit of a twat himself (he is Chelsea fan after all) but any many who so openly and passionately hates Piers Morgan can not be all bad.
“Any many”? That was supposed to say “any one” 🙂
N7
Makes more sense now, thank you.
Realise I didn’t really explain why you can’t enter into “agreements to agree”.
Here’s an example: A enters into a contract that says that at some point in the future he will agree a deal to buy some goods from B. Contract doesn’t specify a price or any other purchase terms.
When it comes time to buy the goods, A and B find they cannot agree a price. Will the court force A to make the purchase, as agreed, even though he cannot fix a price with B? No.
In Suarez case: the clause might say something like “Club agrees that it will permit the Player to move to any third party club which offers more than £40m”. However, if they can demonstrate that the headline £40m is actually just one part of the commercial deal to be done with the prospective purchaser they can benefit from the same principal.
Modern football transfers are, as I understand them, quite complicated commercial and legal negotiations, far far removed from the deals of yesteryear.
I suspect that the complexity of the average transfer has outstripped the complexity of the release clause wording, and that’s what John Henry’s getting at.
All quite interesting, but probably only if you’re a lawyer!
Stoke midfielder Charlie Adam has been charged with violent conduct by the Football Association after television cameras caught him stamping on Olivier Giroud’s leg during Saturday’s victory over Arsenal.
TV replays showed the Scotland midfielder stamp down on Giroud’s left shin as the Frenchman sat on the ground after passing the ball during the second half at the Britannia Stadium.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2572328/Charlie-Adam-charged-FA-violent-conduct-TV-cameras-pick-stamp-Olivier-Giroud.html
———————
Some justice at least… next time play flamini! some times got to fight fire with fire. Maybe we should buy Hulk or someone in the Viera vein…
Have back-drunk and I’m surprised and quite disappointed at the level of pessimism already being expressed by many in the bar. The performance was certainly very poor but to extrapolate to a conclusion that we can’t now win the league is vastly premature and insulting to what the side has achieved thus far this term. Come on people, what the feck’s going on?! What happened in the last quarter of last season??? COYBG!
dapper, i am with you. i hadn’t looked at the table since last week, and expected tottenham to be above us as we fall to the relegation zone.
but lo! we’re even on points with second place liverpool, only 4 off the pace to chelski. and al-citeh’s two games in hand are no guarantee that they’ll get back to even with chelski on top. even if they do, we’re in fourth, with more points between us and the scummy cockerels behind us than getting back to the top… but i guess it’s “run in circles, scream and shout”…”the sky is falling”…
disappointment, i get. but suddenly reassessing the success of the season after one loss (albeit a poor one) and calling for wenger’s head seems nuts.
Have the new world Gooners turned the tide away from doom and gloom then? There is only so far it can go I suppose. 😉
jeremy clarkson?
piers morgan?
daily mail articles?
.
when did all this start happening ?
😉
Suarez situation is quite simple the way I see it, I might be wrong of course.
The clause was there, the player agent made sure we know about it, we triggered it, had a permission to speak to the player.
The problem is that Suarez never really wanted to come to us as he and his agent utilized our interest in him just to declare himself as available in the market and to draw attention from other clubs as Real Madrid or if that move fail to urge Liverpool to offer him more money and better contract.
Madrid as expected, did not wanted a player of his reputation in their ranks, so Suarez stayed in Liverpool with new improved contract.
Was Arsene wrong to try and sign him? I’ll say no. He was maybe a little naive in his expectation that Suarez might want to join us, but so was I and so were many of the fans. Anyway he was aware of his qualities and decided to take his chance.
Later in the season, answering a question about Suarez, Arsene using some dancing metaphor, hinted that the player didn’t wanted to come to Arsenal.
Anyway, it would have been nice if he is our player, but it was him and not Liverpool or Henry who chose not to be one.
We need to make sure that we prove him wrong and finish above Liverpool this season.
N7, Lars and Lurky, good stuff above re Suarez. Now that’s how to comment on stuff when you don’t know all the facts about the situation.
And good stuff, Scruz and Dan C.
Isn’t it ironic how we tell the team to man up and believe in themselves and then turn around and tell ourselves that the F.A Cup is our only real shot at a trophy and we’d be lucky to get 4th place in a league title race we are just 4 points off 1st place?
Cheers Scruz; good stuff too!
Cheers Cent!
Up the Arse all the way! 😎
Cent @108
It’s the classic mantra of modern association football: fickleness following the weekly schadenfreudean analyses from pseudo-gurus and talkshite! It’s really not too difficult to be affected by the perennial bandwagon that gloriously rolls along at this time of the year filled with prepubescent pre-cum from the Anti-Arsenal brigade! Glorious! 😎
Is anyone else becoming concerned that we are a little over two months from the end of the season and the manager still hasn’t signed a new contract?
King Kanu had a corrective heart surgery in the US recently, he is said to be recovering in good condition.
N7, frankly I’m worried but just like almost every other thing in life I won’t lose sleep because of that, I believe we will cross that bridge when we get to it. I will admit though that this decision is informed by my belief that Arsene won’t leave us if he feels he can still contribute positively to our cause, if he feels otherwise then I don’t think there would be any need for him to stay because as he himself say “you have no chance if you can’t believe you can do it”. My only slight worry is that he might try to please the crowd and walk away if we end up without silverware or out of the top four by May, but we all know Arsene rarely listens to the crowd.
Good news, Cent. Thanks for sharing.
Cheers, wind.
Cent@108: spot on. I have often thought the same myself.
N7@111: Gazidis said in January that a deal is in place but something along the lines of “there is a right time to announce it” so if he is to believed then Arsene has already signed a new contract.
No N7.
Wenger is now only beginning to reap the rewards of our years in the wilderness. This team needs a few players there’s no doubt about that but it has huge potential.
This is the club of his lifetime and career’s work. I think he’ll be anxious to go out on a high. And with the new commercial deals now, we have the ability to compete for transfers with most other clubs in world football. I just think he loves the club very deeply and has turned down many opportunities to leave through the years even when those options represented greener pastures at the time.
@ Joe, Lars, Cent
That’s what I’m telling myself – all the above.
But I’m starting to get an uneasy feeling. Everyone seems to assume it’s a done deal, but answer me this: how would the club be acting right now if he actually WAS leaving?
Like I say: I’m starting to feel a little uneasy.
Whisper it quietly, N7, but I am also feeling a bit uneasy about the whole thing which is why I made sure to include the “if he is to be believed” bit.
If Arsene does decide to leave now I don’t foresee it being such a disaster as some seem to feel. I’m a Wengerite but the club is now very stable financially, within its own means, and is primed for a new dynasty to be beckoned in by another. Arsene may well be better suited now to go upstairs and relax in his cravat as the new era is beckoned in by A-Nother with a more modern mindset! However, it certainly would be wonderful if he could depart the hot-seat on a high as SAF did!
I believe that signing a new contract is only on Arsene to decide. Whatever he decides it would be the best for the club and I will support his decision as I support most of his decisions so far.
However, it would brake my heart if he leaves us without a trophy. That would be the cruelest thing in the history of football. He doesn’t deserves that.
Wenger is very different to other managers. He has said several times he will only sign a new contract if he believes he is doing a good job for the club and he can take the club further.
He may be seeing what happens this season before making his decision. If he can’t win a trophy this season he may conclude that he won’t win one again. It is deeply sad but he may do a Ferguson and walk. I can’t see him going to PSG as many allege but he’s always been a difficult man to read and he may surprise. Let’s pray that whatever happens he can land a prize this season
Wenger’s going nowhere, he’s not done yet. He would of given *assurances to players like Ozil, Santi, Rosicky and Per. The first probably wouldn’t have joined us otherwise.
*not in a Fergie to RvP way.
As for Sagna, I’m afraid he’s as good as gone. He could make a fortune elsewhere with a longer contract and a hefty payrise, I don’t begrudge him that. I just hope he does it abroad.
*All speculation by me ofcourse.
Happy birthday, Delia.
As the memory of the unfortunate events of Saturday begin to ebb, it is easier to look at the present condition of things a little more dispassionately. In the very first place most people in this bar in particular and the Arsenal universe in general,at the start of the season, would have given certain parts of their anatomy for the team to be 4 points off the lead at the top of the table with 10 games to go.
That there is general discontent and varying levels of disappointment with the current slump can only mean there has been marked improvement over the course of this season as against other seasons in the recent past.There is increased expectation(at least there was)because of the ability demonstrated by the team on very many occasions thus far.
The issue for me, removing some players shortcomings, is that the team is still trying to figure out an identity. There is a certain inconsistency in playing styles and performances. At the start of last season, the team hardly conceded goals and were quite content to sit back, soak up the pressure and hit the opposition on the counter. This gave way later on in the season to Arsene’s preferred version of tiki taka. Along the line when it was obvious that things were going pear shaped, they reverted back to the early season tactics of containment and counter-attack. That played a major part in the season ending okay.
This season the team has not been consistent in tactics. In some games it is as if we are caught in between the two systems. Even though the gaffer has adopted a pragmatic (conservative?) approach to games, it is evident that he is not really comfortable with it. His natural instinct is to set up his team to attack playing short precise passes and depend on the intelligence of his players to solve on-field challenges. To me the lack of a clear cut vision/playing style is what has hampered us in some games. Adding that to a relatively small squad and injuries to some outstanding players, it is no surprise that we seem to be fading out.
I still believe that Arsenal will win silverware this season but Arsene needs to figure out a system to suit the players he has available now. My thoughts, anyway.
COYG
@bigjim, i am SO glad you used your obviously keen intelligence to point that out. i just don’t know what i would have done without your incredibly insightful post.
and cent/dan, yeah, it’s all about “i want it NOW or i am going to scream and beat my breast”. there are some here (steve t., lurky, etc.) who have been pretty damned considered over the past few years, so they’re not maudlin-come-latelys like some who strut in here and act like the latest trend in haute cuisine, the “pop up”…
walks off, whistling this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn3soYbSpS4
oh, and happy delightful birthday, delia of block 112. i always enjoy reading your posts, you’re yet another ray of sunshine in this outpost of sanity 🙂
big jim: I’ll take the bait. First of all, kindly keep your insults to yourself. This bar is one of the most liberal you can find anywhere, but you are pushing it. Everyone is entitled to his view. You may not like Wenger and you may have differing perceptions but please be civil, that is if you have the ability.
Many happy returns, Delia.
*hums along with Ttg*
Night, all.
Fine write up Holic. Good to hear that KS is back on the circuit. Hope he’s in good shape.
You’re right bigjim, we shoulda dumped AW and signed David Moyes ages ago. That’s what a really BIG club woulda done, aye.
Öskar
Spot on with the Suarez comments Lurky … if he’d wanted to come to the Ems all he needed to do was put in a transfer request after our 40+1 bid, but he never did. Damn shame, we’d be the club chasing four trophies if he had… 🙁
Öskar
Happy Birthday Delia !
N7 – thanks for the good stuff re Suarez’ contract.
bigjim,
I can’t work out whether I am gullible or a retard.
I suspect the answer is ‘gullible’ as I would be happy to accept whichever description you advise.
Awaiting your insightful response with interest.
bigjim
I couldn’t agree more hats off to you blind leading the blind
they all deserve each other. Doomed to failure the underachievers brigade. Be careful what you wish for you might end up with a serial loser like Wenger.
Inept would be to kind a word to describe this site.
More like holic as chief Wenger propaganda minister.
Such a privilege to have insightful drinkers like bigjim and auntie gracing our site. I wonder what dream club they support. Hmmm, not a very distant one I suspect!
Öskar
There is a shit shower of trolls about the place right now. What gives?
Delia
.
hope
you had
a triumphant birthday
.
🙂
otd, I think the only dream the MNB knows about is wet.
‘hol
i know you shouldn’t
feed the chimps
and
i’m not
but
poorly spelled ignominy
is one ineptitude too far
Shirley
.
what a turnip
Wow, just walked into the bar and the allegations are flying!
bingo,bigjim and auntie of course deserve to be ignored.
Name calling and insults were left behind in the playground by most seasoned drinkers in this particular bar.
The passioned (and mostly reasoned) opinions found in this bar and others are inevitable following the Stoke debacle, but, for what its worth, heres my two penny’s worth.
1. I dont believe for a moment that any Arsenal player takes to the field in the famous red and white without “disire” to win the game. Even at footballs lowest grass roots level, the partisipants all have one thing in common — they want to win the game.
2. If my first assertion is correct, then Arsenal lost to Stoke for another (or other, reasons). This could be team selection, poor form, bad luck etc etc.
3.in my opinion, it is unfair to single out particular players for castigation – its a team game.
4.Arsenals best eleven players would give a game to just about anyone. The problem is we are diluted by injury to key players.
5, Can we win the league with the walking wounded we still have? It is of course possible, mathmatically at least. The joy of watching English football is the sheer unpredictability of it. Thats why we keep watching when apparently all hope is gone. Without unpredictability in sport, you have nothing.
6. Do any of us genuinely have a solution to our teams current malaise?
I dont think so. But we all think we have.
7. Whats my point? — good question.
8. Happy birthday Delia
I appear to have used up my tuppence.
😉
Goonertown- Guinness is on the bar.
we only keep fosters for the tourists and fourXXX is for the Queensland mob up north.
Arsenal are not good enough it’s as simple as that.They have been unconvincing beating the useless teams and have invariably been beaten by the better teams.
The losers mindset emanating from Wenger has permeated the whole club
bingo, you are either up very late, or on my side of the planet, which is a worry.
Aussie — one on the bar for you mate — your choice.
We may have crossed swords previously over the cricket — but I admire your humility in this set of drinks. If only your fellow countryman in the baggie green would follow your lead!
Hi guys just a little point to add to the Suarez contract scenario. I did a little contract management myself a few years ago (inc: procurement/contract tenders).
My overall assumption from what I’m hearing from both clubs inc managers and player is that there was a 40 mill release clause. But it was a conditional one. This means that certain conditions had to be met before 40 mill could release the player. So therefore, we were right to bid 40 mill + 1. As I stated before, we could have bid 40 mill plus 50p. It does not matter.
Presumably the difference between this and other cases where such clauses set the player free, is where the club accept the money as the only condition or other conflicting conditions are not present.
I hope that makes sense.
Btw: I want that FA cup more than you guys know. Bring on the fookin Toffees sat lunchtime.
🙂
I have maintained all along that the bid was perfect, the clause was simple, any bid above 40 would mean pool informs luis that there is a bid and it gives the right to that club to speak with luis, so why would you want to bid a lot more than what is needed to start the talks. Arsenal were absolutely right then, problem was with Suarez, he wanted to play safe, be nice on both sides knowing that if pool dint accept the bid he will have to come back and play there, so he dint want to put the transfer request and be the villain.
I am certain Arsenal would have gone back with a better bid if Suarez had indicated that he was willing to come, Suarez wanted Arsenal to come up with a gigantic offer which pool wouldnt have refused and then everyone was a winner. Arsenal played fair and said we will better the offer but not go over the top, pool wanted to cash in as much as possible, when both parties dint come to a common ground, suarez played it smart by saying no i wont give the transfer request, i think that is where everything got fucked up. Arsenal were lead into believing that luis and his camp will force pool to sell, when they dint, we lost out.
In terms of the whining, that was expected after a loss, i sometimes do wonder if they really are Arsenal fans, one loss and its all over, for heaven sake we have 10 games to go. So pool suddenly favourites? they need to play united, city and chelsea, i am telling you they will help us out eventually, they will take points of chelsea/city but will lose to united and atleast another team.
Spurs and United like wise can help us, spurs beat/draw chelsea this weekend, united need to play city at home, we can still be there and there abouts, so the ones crying that its all over can shut the fuck up.
Wenger though needs to be more proactive, he cannot keep playing safe, throw caution to the wind boss, your whole legacy will be tarnished beyond repair if you blow up things not wanting to take a risk.You deserve so much more for the kind of work you have done for us,please take the gamble, play a more attacking team, take the game to the opposition than always play the waiting game, those 20 minutes against bayern should have shown you what this team can do.
Please Arsenal play as if your life depends on these 10 games and of course the FA cup games, we can still win both.
Aussie @ 142 😆
Vinay – Although it’s a tall ask, there is also a 2 goal deficit to turn around at the Allianz!
COYR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20140304/new-deals-for-mertesacker-and-rosicky
Some good news 🙂 Although on the flip side, I think Sagna’s name being missing in this announcement means that he really is off in the summer. Can’t begrudge him the move at his age in his career, he’s been a great servant to the club.
Good news that, Wind!
So, big jim moseys on into the bar, plays his favourite game bingo, then pulls on a dress and becomes his own auntie to agree with and give kudos for what he/she previously had said as big jim.
A facinating insight into the pschy of an individual yearning for acceptance and justification, a split personality that the late Dr Freud probably would of clinicaly refered to as “a bit of a saddo”.
Hi all
I dont think we can under estimate the monumental task in front of us to win the league, however it can be done. Man shity are still fighting on all fronts and have fixture congestion to add to that as well. Sadly I do believe chelski will go through in the CL so they will have to manage their squad as well.
I do not believe we will go through at Bayern, that is not defeatis more realistic. Pep will not take us littley and history has shown Bayern what a mistake that could be for them, just dont see us going through.
Now Liverpool have nothing but the PL to look at and that is well in their favour. Long rests between games with no distractions and full focus. They are playing well and have fantastic momentum, come the end of the season we would of played over 10 games more than them.
We are currently not on our game and it would be hard for any fan to argue otherwise. We have got results when not playing well but against chelski and shity that wont be enough. So thats why I think it will be incredibly hard but doable. The FA cup is looking very inviting at the moment with the Evertonians to get past. I must say they are making us earn it with all but Coventry we have had all PL teams.
The FA cup would build a bit of belief into the team which is currently missing. We dont wont to be the OOoooo so close team again this season. A FA cup win could be the jump start we need to grow and believe again as a team. This is just my humble opinion.
Cheers
anger management discussion
on radio 2
interrupted for
music break
plays scritti politti
a more insipid limp
anger inducing
load of dung
never existed
twonk
Bacs leaving looks most likely and as much as i like him if we have to let go so be it. Please replace him with a proper right back and that means no jenkinson.
Per and Rozza, well good signs but the worry for me about rozza is every time he promises so much but injuries means half the season he is out, will he being there means we lose out on a midfielder like say Valbuena???? I just pray rozza stays fit thats all.
oh
and
looking forward to
your
kenny write up
‘hol
Vinay, Rosicky won’t be a starter in every game. But that kind of experienced player is invaluable in a squad.
A1971: I don’t think we should be thinking about the league in terms of winning it, just take it game by game and see where that takes us.
Cheers for the level-headed report ‘H, and the many sensible drinks that follow.
Grim performance, grim result.
Thought Arsene got it wrong on Saturday, and though any retrospective analysis does of course enjoy the benefit of hindsight, I think it’s fair to say that his initial selection raised a few eyebrows prior to kick off. If I was puzzled as to why a fresh and in form Ox did not warrant a starting place, I was absolutely baffled as to why Flamini did not play. If there’s a game that suits Flamini down to the ground then it is surely Stoke away.
I also thought that selection issues were compounded by a failure to change things much quicker when it was obvious that the starting line up was not working. I accept that making wholesale changes at ht is simply not Arsene’s way and is arguably too early in any event, but I couldn’t understand why a decision was delayed beyond say 10 minutes into the second half, when it was fairly obvious that any half time words of wisdom had not had the desired effect. Why delay Ozil’s introduction until the 67th minute, and why not bring on Ox at the same time? Surely any impact Ozil was likely to make on the game was significantly lessened without players on the pitch willing to run beyond him. Only when the Ox came on did we suddenly have the width and movement that we had hitherto lacked, and he was able to carve out more in ten minutes than the rest had in the preceding 80.
Those issues aside, Arsene cannot have anticipated such a collective failure on the part of the players to retain possession in anything other than neutral areas of the pitch and impose our game on Stoke. Arteta was poor I thought, and in my view Flamini should be preferred for the bulk of the remainder of our games. I simply think Flamini is a better fit in this Arsenal side, given the qualities that other players in the squad offer. Rosicky and Jack both had stinkers whilst Santi and Poldi were largely anonymous.
As for the penalty, we’ve all seen them given, and no doubt I would have been screaming for one had the incident occurred at the other end. None of that makes the referee’s decision any more correct. How the incident can be interpreted as intentional handball is quite beyond me. Utter nonsense from the Ref. As poor as we were, I would still have fancied us had we gone into the last 15 minutes at 0-0. As it was, the penalty gave Stoke something to hang onto and relieved them of any need to offer any kind of attacking threat thereafter. Faced with a massed defence and before a pack of baying Orcs, it was always going to be a tough ask to get back into the game.
Oh and Charlie Adam really is a terrible cunt. I hope the FA come down hard on him, but won’t hold my breath in that regard.
So a bad day. An unlikely challenge for the Premiership is not quite over, certainly stranger things have happened, but it will take a run-in of 97-98 proportions and a significant upturn in form and confidence for our challenge to survive March.Right now, it’s pretty difficult to envisage that happening.
Hopefully we can get a result against Everton at the weekend. Play your best team Arsene (whatever you consider that to be) and go from there. The Season will look a whole lot better from the vantage point of the last four of the cup, and will hopefully begin to restore some sense of momentum for the league challenges that lie ahead.
cba 155
that is
the way
of
the world
🙂
Very well put TABS
crackin read tabs
Good stuff, Tabs.
Nice analogical piece over on Arseblog today. He also included the following ‘comments’ that Stoke fans tried to leave, on the wrong article (no, really), referring to Arsenal fans as –
– Southern jessies
– Shandy drinking ladyboys
– ‘Loosers’ [sic]
– Grape loving poofters
– Thick froggs [sic]
– Frilly knicker wearing tutu wearers
Blogg’s next paragraph is excellent – go have a look.
Whatever happened in Stoke ? All those years of evolution and education wasted ………..
bt8
the world
ain’t half an ass
sometimes
🙂
Cheers Arsenal1971 and right back atchyer for your contributions @various.
Interesting stuff re Suarez above. I tend towards the Lurky view of things – that Suarez used the publicity surrounding our bid to try and awaken interest from the Spanish giants or bag himself a giant payrise from Liverpool- but I wouldn’t rule out what N7 said re Henry’s tendency to use the incident to aggrandise a self-portrait of a Business genius. Either way, I do hope it puts an end to the constant and frankly tedious complaints that the situation was as a result of Arsenal incompetence. It wasn’t.
So, no sooner is Tabs
back in here,
than cba and I appear,
to praise the fine words
he has writ
amongst bigjim
and auntie’s shit.
Fine chaps indeed,
i think we are
‘mongst the
huffers and the puffers,
although that
North Bank 1 has said
we’re only Tabs’s fluffers.
😉
Cheers cba and thank you for the usual chuckles. 🙂 Much needed after a result like Saturday’s.
Cheers Trev. Will go and have a look. Much against my better judgement I did have a look last week at that Stoke site that was slagging Ramsey. Even by the worst standards of the most vituperative elements of social media, the poisonous abuse was something else. Bunch of utter bells. Really really hate losing to them and all that they stand for.
Heh @166 Trev 🙂
Great stuff Holic. Thank you.
Now THAT was a poem, Trev 🙂
rhyming
is
never
clever
trevor
ever
🙂
just sang along
to a blur song
?
oy
goin down to the seashore to wash my brain
Well in, tabs – good little round up.
Still a few days to go until the lads get a chance to put things right. Roll on Saturday….
herself likes radio 2
himself needs to buy some trousers(
aussie…you can beat the drum all you want..just answer this please :
when before in arsenal;s history prior to wenger did this football club enjoy a near 20 year spell in positions 1-4 domestic and 1-16 in europe?
answer please……..
she’s also unearthed
a german
christmas candle contraption
wee hot air
powered fins
power round
a metal star
cut out yoke
tres festive for march
doesnt even bastardin work well
roll on nightime
for the great disappointments
i did however
have pancakes today
hope
ye all did too
yum yum
pigs bum
there is nothing that depresses me more than clueless revisionists presenting the past of arsenal as bigger and greater than what Wenger has brought to this club….
it makes me embarassed to be associated with such people just cause we support the same team…..people who cant appreciate club progress, the whole modernisation of our facilities and infrastructure…
do you realise that the change arsenal went through with wenger is the kind of change you find in other clubs in the span of a century? he has done it in a decade.
the specialists in failure are weak minded fans like you aussie mate who have allowed rivals tauntings and media to make you believe that not winning trophies against petrol cartels while repaying a 450m stadium investment is something to be ashamed of……..
Tabs: good stuff @159, though I have to take issue with you over the penalty call. See @59 for how Premiership referees have now been instructed to interpret the handball rule. Hard to say Jones got it wrong in the light of that, however daft one thinks the interpretation is. That Kos didn’t get a yellow card, which he should have done if the handball was judged deliberate, suggests to me that Jones saw a technical infringement that he was required to penalize. As you say, we’d have wanted that if it had happened at the other end.
Worth reminding ourselves that it is not just us who are going to find it tough to win the league this season. The same is true for all the top sides — and all but one will fail to do so.
regista
registered
Now that last weekend is out of the way, I am finding that I have a gargantuan thirst forming for this coming Saturday.
Seat belts and crash helmets on ladies……
The Feelgood Foundation is coming to a Supporters Club near you….
😎
Happy Mardi Gras everybody. Be sure to celebrate while you have a few hours left. 🙂
But be sure to watch out for those alter egos, altar boys and other masked persons.
*starts selling invisible peanuts*
*mustn’t feed that which we tower over*
Hi Ned, cheers, have just had a peek at your 58 and 59.
I must admit I haven’t seen the incident again since Saturday afternoon, so will concede that it was perhaps more contentious than my 159 allowed for.
That said, I would still argue that it was not hand to ball in circumstances where the ball was kicked probably less than a yard away from Kos’s hand and where that kick materially affected the ball’s direction to where Kos had anticipated, and in circumstances where when the ball hit his hand, he was in motion. Neither would I really accept that Kos’s hand was in an ‘unnatural’ position given that he was running/jumping towards the ball before it was kicked.
Certainly arguable either way though, I agree. Think the rule needs looking at for more consistency either way.
Agree completely with your last paragraph. Whatever happens hereon in, we’ve had a good (and unexpected) run for our money this year, and it isn’t over yet (just).
The myth about our “annual collapse” pretty much totally debunked:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon/2014/03/04/why-you-need-to-treat-comments-about-another-premier-league-collapse-by-arsenal-with-skepticism/
“Having overseen a fourth consecutive season without silverware, he faced some fierce scrutiny over his transfer policy, team selection and tactics.”
By who did our manager face scrutiny ? Owners or fans?
At one point i read shareholders but then i read supporters.
Tabs, NBN and others. The rules should be clarified to prevent referees from thinking they need to call such borderline penalties when there is clearly no intent or significant advantage gained on the part of the offender. The chance of a professional footballer gambling on giving away a penalty for handball on the edge of the area when the chance of the opposition scoring a goal is nearly nil, is nearly nil.
guessing zico
you will
carry yourself
with
great aplomb
.
🙂
various hehs @ cba and Trev.
Nice one Tabs, agree with virtualy all of that.
I’ve kept my powder dry as far as the weekends game is concerned. I’m not one to usually slate individuals, but there were too many on the field that were truly awful and if I’m being brutaly honest, for one or two, that has been their level lately.
I understand the importance of letting players play themselves back into form, but something was clearly wrong on Saturday, we were static and nothing was working, the changes, when they eventually came, added a bit of a spark, but came inexplicably late, way too late in fact. Even if we did get better with the Ox and co on, the simple fact that we could only muster two shots on target is worrying in the extream, we really must do better.
I personally thought that the penalty was harsh, and even applying the new letter of the law (Ned) I still think it wasn’t the best call. It’s clearly a case of ball to hand, not hand to ball. That Kos’ arm was out was more a balance thing rather then any real attempt to make contact. I haven’t seen any replay or analysis on the event, it’s just what I thought at the time. Not blaming the ref, because we got what we deserved from that game, bugger all.
One of the greats. Barcelona or no.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26439050
Always had a good hair day, too.
Shoulder barges Stoke player on the touch line. Stoke player trips and runs into the railings, leaving us with a man advantage so drops the ball off to defender who surveys the options.
Runs past Charlie Adam leaving him flat on his backside, goes back and “accidently” stomps on his leg, after threading a ball through to….
Points are points. One is as good as another, and the league table isn’t weighted for context.
We’ve had some good run ins and we’ve had some bad. It seems perverse to talk about the end of season collapse when (a) it hasn’t actually happened yet this term; and (b) it clearly didn’t happen last year.
Right now I think it’s enough to say we were pony at the weekend, we have some very tough games coming up and we’re going to need to play better. To the extent we do “collapse” in March I would guess it will have more to do with a fixture run composed of nothing but tough games, most of them away, rather than the page of the calendar. There’s no point looking for patterns.
Accidentally kicks Mark Hughes in the shin.
scores
Lurky, I suspect that goal won’t stand after the Dubious Goals Panel has had it’s say!
What about this one?
Or even this one?
Scores!!!
well, maybe. 😉
Damn, like H2H said, that fella had so many personalities, I have to keep scoring till 220 just to be sure.
Lurky, do repeated attempts really count? 🙂
Pardon ?
Lurky. Job well done. Especially considering UEFA might retroactively apply a not even yet envisaged new rule discounting goals scored if the ball bounces back out of the net after it has crossed the line. 😉
Scores the real goal.
Lars, only in my world.
8ball, under that rule we should we sign the net as a striker next summer.
Oooh, close but no cigar, H2H!
Well in, Lurky. I think we have to allow that one just because it was so well played 🙂
Lurky, Maybe not as a striker but the regurgitating net could help SZCZ keep out a few penalties. 🙂
It was worth a shot, Lars.
Well in Lurky, you took more shots in few minutes then we managed in our last full game. Sign him up AW. 😉
The dubious goals committee sure was active on that one. Lurky could have a friend on the inside?
Or was it purely Lurky’s old fashioned grit and determination?
Cheers N7, and completely agree with the point you make at 193. Criticism of the team and the manager is of course entirely justified in the wake of a performance like Saturday’s, but why some feel the need to link an isolated result as ‘proof’ of non-existent patterns or the wholly nonsensical ‘eight years of failure’ tag is quite beyond me.
Cheers H2H, and nice assist 😉
Good article Lars.
Well in Lurky.
Good points regista @175 and 177 and by the usual suspects. 🙂
Tabs, H2H, bt8b and others: I go back and forth on these refereeing instructions. If refs have to follow them to the letter, every player knows what will be penalized and what won’t. It takes the judgement out of the call. But then it takes the judgement out of the call in these borderline cases, which were probably never envisioned when the instruction was being drafted. FIFA’s laws of the game are so straightforward, too. It is a foul if a player “handles the ball deliberately”.
Great news, albeit expected, on TR7 on Per renewing their contracts? Is Thomas (33) the oldest outfield player to have ever renewed contract with us in the Arsene era? Have been reading in Arseblog that Santi is to get an upgraded contract as well.
Thinking back about the Stoke match, despite such lackluster and insipid attacking performance Ox had created two very good chances later in the game both of which should have been taken. Giroud scooped one to the goalie and Sanogo blasted one over the top. This is where we really miss a clinical finisher.
Acknowledging all the attitude issues and problems with Bendy, I just wonder that whether he is still not a relatively better choice to come off the bench to score a goal or two while we are chasing the game. Of course his lack of work-rate etc. excludes him out of the starting eleven but he is still a more proven golascorer at PL with experience against oppositions like Stoke, and even though we all would like to see Sango build on his promise for the sake of efficiency in the rest of this season wouldn’t Bendy be a better choice to come on in the last 15-20 minutes (even in place of Giroud) when we are chasing games? Or is he so far out of the door already that Arsene sees no reason to use him?
Urghh… the first line above @ 214 reads all wrong. I meant “Great news, albeit expected, on TR7 and Per renewing their contracts.” No question marks for me… And I meant ‘Tomas’ not ‘Thomas’…
I think Dennis, Tony Adams, Lee Dixon, Nigel Winterburn and Marin Keown all got contracts older than 33.
and Ian Wright too.
Cheers H2H and tabs, I see my UEFA connections did their job appropriately. Thanks to the Insider, you know who you are.
Doctor Faustus, you might have a point about Bendtner, but I just don’t see Arsene considers him as an option for the reminder of the season. It is obvious they he is gone at the end of the season, so that is why Arsene chooses to play the striker who is going to be part of this team for the next season too. Sanogo would be my choice too and I am with Arsene on that one.
Faustus: several players have extended or signed new contracts after the age of 33. Adams, Keown, Lehmann and Bergkamp to name four off the top of my head.
Ah, bath got his reply in as I was typing 🙂
Thanks a lot bath. Yes, the Begrkamp one I used to know, the rest I should have known. It hasn’t happened for such a long time in footballing terms that it feels like a truly pragmatic change in the contract renewal practices in the Emirates era.
Fellow Goonerholics,
I am a Canadian visiting London for a week starting this coming Friday evening / Monday morning. Was born in the city but haven’t spent more than a night there in 25 years. This trip is a dream come true. I have two things to ask:
1. I see that third party sites (ticketbis.net) still have a surplus of tickets, whereas the official Arsenal box office is very limited. Can I trust a site like this, especially if it has quoted me a specific seat in a specific section (shortside lower tier)?
2. Gooner Clive has recommended that I immerse myself in the Tollie both before and after the match. Just looking for confirmation that this is where I can meet some of the finest supporters in all the land?
Any advice would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks
Ro
Thanks Lars: I remembered about Jens, that is why I said outfield players. Bergkamp’s renewal I used to know about but forgot, the rest I should have known. At least the oldest in the Emirates era, right? 🙂
Hi Rohan
good to see you hear.
Sit back and wait for the deluge of replies from some top people.
cheers
The Sweeper
rohan, the Tollie is indeed a good place to visit.
I have no idea about ticketbis though. If you can, buy through Arsenal. There are a lot of sites out there that sell tickets and far from all of them can be trusted.
Faustus: ah, I managed to miss “outfield”.
Faustus: oh, and depending on how we define “renewed” then both Sol Campbell and Thierry Henry were older when they returned to the club, but both of those were of course only short-term contracts and in the case of Henry also only a loan so they were special cases.
Interesting to see that a side with 59 points is bang in the title race ( Mugsmashers) and one with 59 points has slipped irrevocably out of it( us) . Strange logic even by the prats that comment in the media.
Definetly visit the Tollie Rohan, just a stones throw away from THOF and many top drinkers from this bar gather there.
As for the external sites, you usually end up paying way over the odds. It may be cheaper to get a membership and buy your ticket direct from Arsenal, definetly safer.
Good luck with your pilgrimidge.
Lars: Yes, the short-lived returns of Sol, Henry and even Jens I would exclude from the ‘renewal’ list.
Lurky @ 218: I get that logic of trusting in someone who would need to be trusted more and more in future, and I am sure Arsene has definitely seen enough of Sanogo in training ground to put that faith in him, but was just wondering if in this run-in Bendy is likelier to score a goal coming off the bench when the opportunity is presented — similar to the one against Cardiff — than Sanogo. Over the years we have learnt one thing with Arsene though, generally a very forgiving and patient manager about players but once someone gets in his black book that really is that. The waste that Bendy made of his career despite such grand opportunities is really quite mind-boggling.
Fact is we have performed poorly in our last three away games and disappointingly at home against Man U. Apart from that our only wins in the last 5 games have been against relegation favourites Palace and Sunderland. If that doesn’t suggest a hiccup I don’t know what would.
It’s possible to still win the title, of course it is. But we are becoming increasingly reliant on others losing unexpectedly. With Man City’s two games in hand we are effectively in 4th place, and getting past all of the other three requires a considerable leap of faith.
I am very happy with the improvements seen in the club this season but realistic enough not to expect miracles. What we do need to be careful of is getting dispirited at not being able to win the title and falling prey to those with nothing to lose in 5th or 6th place currently.
I hope we give the title a go, but we also need to watch our backs. To lose 4th now would be complete ignominy.
And no, that does not mean I see 4th as a trophy. It would be disappointing after being in contention (and still in contention) for so long. Just being realistic. First rule of winning is Don’t Lose.
Öskar
Rohan, Have a great trip! I wish it could be me. I have heard it rains a lot over there so if you are lucky the Tollie will have put up the brolly. Either way you can drink beer and meet the holics so good times await.
Аgree on the black book Doctor Faustus. It looks that Podolski’s name is written in it too.
That is the aspect of Arsene that I don’t agree with. He seems to be quite patient with some players that are out of form and to completely ignore others who might help the team.
Sometimes it looks despite the form, despite the opponent, his choice of who is going to play and who is not, is already made long before the match.
I got the same impression on the manner he does the substitutions. It looks like he has the idea who is going to be subbed on and who is going to be subbed off and the exact minute of that process even before the game starts. No matter what, baring injuries.
The perfect example was Man U game seasons ago, when he subbed off Chambo who was our best player that day by a mile. His explanation for thay substitution after the game was that Chambo begun to show signs of fatique.
But as far as I remember and I remember well most of the time, Chambo was full of energy and adrenaline up to the moment he was subbed.
I agree with Arsene’s philosophy, his way of coaching, mentoring, managing but I feel that he must try to reconsider certain methods sometimes.
Like tabs said, why all the subs on Saturday were 10 minutes too late? Why the same team selection vs. Sunderland at home and vs Stoke away? Where was Flamini in a game that suits him the most. What is the point of having 25 players squad if you don’t believe in 30% of your players. If they are not good enough why are they in the squad? What is the point of playing Ozil in a cup game vs low league opponent as Coventry when it was clear that he needs a rest and then resting him vs Stoke and Sunderland? What Chambo needs to do, to overtake Wilshere’s place in this team? And finally, what Wilshere needs to do, Arsene to finally realise that the boy is out of form, doesn’t defend at all, has a tendency of losing every third ball and needs to he dropped from the starting line up?
AW’s subs ALWAYS come later than I expect, it’s my major gripe against him (that and his team selections on occasions) as I’ve mentioned many times. I just don’t get what he expects a player to do with just 15 minutes or less. It’s more like he’s resting those he takes off than hoping those that come on will do anything.
And I have absolutely given up on his attitude too Poldi. Best thing we currently have in the striking department, imo.
Just as well his good qualities way outshine his shortcomings, aye. 😉
Öskar
I read today that TGSTEL wants to leave us when his contract runs out at the end of the season. Lol.
Öskar
Could be good for Arsenal to move Luiz offshore.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/barca-eye-luiz-swoop-as-puyol-calls-it-quits-30063481.html
Might be a better move, bt8b, to buy him to fill our DM need. I think Luiz is better playing in front of the back four than as a CB, and would give us a beast in that position with the technical skills AW admires.
Ash Wednesday?
Time to give up idiots for Lent.
I’ll start with Darren Gough…..
“Very simply Arsenal are a top 4 club being judged as if they are a top 2 club”
I recommend everyone to read this.
I still think the league title is far from decided even though the chavs are the favourites at the moment, Arsenal need to win and win continuously to entertain any hope of winning, does this mean we need to win all 10? that would be perfect but unlikely, i still think win 8 and we may just win the league.
Wenger needs to take the handbrakes off himself and the team, its way too cautious and i think its because everyone is under serious pressure, one mistake, one wrong move and they will be crucified.
Take a deep breath boss and release the hand brakes, go for broke, its now or nothing, forget protecting players and managing them, who the hell cares if Ozil is injured and cant go to the world cup, as if we care, we care only for Arsenal and if that means playing the same players for the next 10 games then so be it. Play your best players, play to win at all cost, i think we are too defensive and dont seem to thrive on pressure, look at things positively, just 10 games to go, win them and we can be champions, please Arsene for once make pressure your partner than your enemy.Stop protecting players.
232Lurky
Good morning. I can understand how his actions/decisions can sometimes infuriate fans. However it needs to be said that people like him, who wake up and have a checklist of 150 bullet-points on their daily agenda, have decided on formations/tactics/sub, way back. They dont make it all up at the eve of the game. Decisions on subs, rotation etc are made with future games in mind therefore are planned way before matchdays. The manager gets the information from his stuff and prepares. If the players dont bring in the points its their fault. They are professionals under contract and their job is to perform. The level of training and preparation and the familiarity of the regime leaves no excuse to the players. We cant blame the manager about tactics or subs when the team and players used are more than good to get the result we want. And we shouldnt be afraid to tell our players to act more seriously and with ore determination. Wenger cant put his boots on and show them how its done. They will have to do it and find the way to do it. No more waiting for Wenger to carry them by the hand. Excluding the occasional bad performances (we are all human, we dont go with same attitude to work everyday) our players are generally well behaved and do have the character to respond and repay their manager’s faith. I dont know if they have the strong personalities to impose themselves on neuers lampards and yaya toures though. We will see.
Given that the patronage of both Goonerholic and Arseblog are so intertwined with common contributors, bloggers, and obviously some really close friendships that have developed throughout the years, with your very kind permission Holic, a brief word this morning to highlight the ever brilliant Arseblogger.
I think words are by now superfluous for what he has done for the Arsenal fanbase all over the world. This mornings contribution on Per Mertesacker has to rank as one of his very best postings and in many ways for me, encapsulates some of the essential ingredients as to why we all love this club.
You might go without the bacon sandwich for breakfast every morning, but very few of us would choose to go without the daily contributions from the Arseblog. It has to be some sort of universal acceptance of greatness to simply be known throughout the arsenal internet sphere, singularly, as “blogs”.
for those who wonder how will our players look like in next seasons kits… http://media.sport.cz/images/gallery/0112002906881196/BFEMAgZwkz8A-_B_kuH9tg/53160cbd93632bbb62790100-174389.jpg?20140304182623 it is also from puma, so I suppose the shape will be completely identical
Great post Joe @241.
A glass of Macallan 25yo is on the bar for you (for later).
Lars @238.
Thanks for that, an excellent piece.
Joe @241
You’re right about Arseblog. His and ‘holic’s blog are my must read posts and I visit both daily (when possible).
I was however dissapointed that the Arsenal didn’t make it into his top 5 list this morning, damn adorable puppies. 😉
Agreed, Joe.
And the old geezer who runs this place is ok too.
It’s quite remarkable standing in The Tollie watching the pair of them constantly meeting and greeting people I have never even seen before, as many times as I have been there.
@ Joe
If he’s such a great geezer, how come he never bought me a beer in the Blind Pig? 😉
Lars @238
That is a bang on article.
Our achievements in the last 9 years, or lack thereof, are pretty much par for our financial standing.
Could we have done better? Quite possibly. Should our performance be causing a mass rending of garments and spittle-flecked diatribes against the manager/board/physio team? Probably not.
It hurts when we lose. It hurts even worse when we lose playing badly. It hurts worse still when we lose, playing badly, to a bunch of cnuts. Is that an excuse to abandon all perspective and thrash around the place like Arsene is refusing to get you what you want for Christmas? No, it is not.
The great unanswered questions: which club’s shoes would you want to step into right now? Which manager who is likely to be available to us do you think would do a better job than our current manager?
By all means criticise (clearly, there are things about Arsenal worthy of criticism), but do so with a modicum of perspective. Oh, and also worth bearing in mind – sometimes I don’t understand what the manager does. But I can still recognise that the decisions he makes are not cut and dry.
Case in point: the Ox at the weekend. Me? I’d have started him – we needed width and pace. But then I didn’t see him in training all week. I don’t know anything about the knock that caused him to come off against Bayern. I don’t have a folder of stats as to his physical condition. I don’t have any real understanding of his ability to play in all three of the Stoke, Bayern and Everton games, or whether he’s likely to get a run out for England midweek. I am operating on the most partial of information. That doesn’t prevent me from saying I think it may well have been wrong. It does prevent me from suggesting that the man who made the decision is negligent/past it or some sort of moron.
I really miss the days when football wasn’t so complicated, when opinions weren’t so polarised and where there was a general recognition that more united us than divided us.
It’s money, N7, that has caused this.
Or rather money, the internet and the blame culture we live in.
It’s hardly necessary to fill in the gaps but – first Chelsea, and then Man City turned up “firing £50 notes at us”. Suddenly, there were new richer kids on the block who could outbid us for any player, and build deeper more powerful squads than we could.
At the same time, we fans were being asked to cough up more and more of our own money to support the team, as the club tried to continue to do things the right way. Consequently, we have been paying top dollar for inevitably weaker squads, with inevitably less chances of winning trophies. ( Bearing in mind the financial might of Man Utd, fourth behind them, Chelsea and City was the most we were entitled to expect. )
And so, because we were winning fewer trophies, some took to the internet to vent their spleens and abuse those in control of the club on the basis of their own assumptions.
After all, we live in a society where there is no such thing as an accident. A teacher has just received £90,000 compensation for slipping on a sachet of tomato ketchup and, presumably, banging his botty.
Ambulance chasers operate in shopping centres, and cold callers try to persuade you to sue all and sundry for accidents they don’t even know you’ve never had !
Someone has to be blamed – for everything !
Three prime ingredients to mix into the bile and fury that emerges at every defeat.
I still know where I would rather be.
i salute trev.
weak people …actually weak fans is arsenal;s only problem. with strong support, support that knows what their club is about and what its facing and maybe the club surprises a few. all that our club/team/ players/manager need is that PUSH from the support to give them wings. sad we live in a culture of blame and fear.
Can not even think of anything as brave as competing against such clubs with 17-21 year olds in the first 5-6 years of the stadium move. A hell of a late riskier and ambitious than having a translator winning trophies with other people’s money.
whoever has access at games in emirates join me in supporting and singing for the team please. enough with the cretinous behaviour of some who hope the team fails so that they have their moan on the internet and cameras….
Having re-read my @248 – how vain can you get – I should add, unnecessarily – that I am also right with Steve T on his ” be the best you can be” thing too.
Just in case it was sounding a bit holier than thou-ish. 😉
‘be the best you can be’ maybe so,
but when you have to repay stadiums and field teenagers …getting to 4th behind manu chelsea and city is beyond “the best you can be”..its actually exceeding expectations.
that team has been disrupted slowly slowly with robin and song being the last and final act which paved the way for the team we see now.
all this has happened in just two years….demanding to be the best you can be when you had to restructure the whole team and style of play just two years ago is unrealistic.
it is also unrealistic to have demanded that the club kept on cesc nasri robin etc when the priority was to make money. Yes its unfortunate the previous gen lost faith and opted to leave but the factors for their decissions were multiple and not just the inability of the club to keep them.
if i were cesc id gladly go back home and party with xavi iniesta and carles and pep than having to deal with neanderthals smashing me and my teammates legs and then having an army of idiots moaning that we cant beat lampard and drogba who are earning 180-200k per week and are 28-32 years of age……
in short you can only be the best you can be when you are ready and everything is in place for you to go and reach your maximum potential …not before. arsenal has not reached that stage yet. the puzzle has not finished yet. It is to the manager’s immence credit that we appear to be ready and willing to fight…who knows what can happen? nothing is guaranteed but our team will sure fight for whatever chances it has at this stage of its overall development.
Just imagine what will happen when aaron jack theo ox gibbs etc are 27-29 ….thats when arsenal will be ready in all respects to go and dominate…. the casorlas and rosickys and artetas flaminis ar ehere to provide the basis for the jacks and aaron to go and excell/dominate when their time comes.
What N7G said @247, though the reality is that, like it or not, there is no turning back the clock.
Adams get a three-game suspension for stamping on Giroud.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26425905
“I am extremely disappointed for the effect this is going to have on Charlie”…Stoke City chief executive Tony Scholes told his club’s website.
Well, we can all sympathise with that then! Bellend.
Top posts Lars @ 238, N7 @ 247, Trev @ 248 and regista @ 251.
and smart kit eandy @242….thanks for the glimpse.
watching czech republic – norway friendly and just watching TR7 running with the ball has oddly calming influence…most elegant runner I know really.
and the Dehli kid Solksjaer brought with him from Molde to Cardiff looks very very good…he will not stay in Wales for long.
and Tomas still has it in him 😀 http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/1-0-tomas-rosicky-from-outside-the-box-czech-republic-v-norway/
Great new video of every Walcott goal for Arsenal. Some perfect goals and amazing finishing, a must see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Xtf9IhUs0
Speaking of Walcott, after watching all those goals, I noticed that his finishing is much better and more composed when he plays on the left attacking side.
Never thought about it before, but is that his natural position, because his finishing from that side reminds me of Henry a lot?
Good post Lurky, I’m lining that bad boy up for later viewing pleasure. Without watching I know well that he scored some pretty sick goals last season.
lol and Cech with the massive howler in the dying minutes of the match gifting Norway goal for 2-2 XD
Cheers Porco, amazing video, be sure to watch it.
Evening all, some cracking posts from the usual suspects there. Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
regista @251,
That would appear to be an answer contradicting my @250.
I think I know what you are getting at – the general circumstances and aims of the club during the years of the stadium build, which has been done to death.
Noone was expecting us to be Bayern Munich in 2007 but how can it ever be wrong to try to be the “best you can” at any given time ?
That is purely and simply what that means and must be the aim of anyone at any given time.
well, how much better can a group of foreign young lads (cheaply assembled) do in an inhospitable league bent on injuring them or scarring them psychologically to the point of breaking their spirits and them opting for other teams/leagues
lets not conveniently ignore the fact they were treated in a very neanderthal manner by opponnents and refs and media…the kids were no vieiras to know how to deal with such things and fight back…yet we were demanding they beat giggs and drogba for the title and puyol and xavi for the ch.l.
with manu chelsea and city investing specifically to go and win titles , then yes getting top4 with denilson cesc and almunia was the best we could do/be (2007-2011)
in other words…i dont consider it a crime ( or a stick to beat the club an dmanager with) that our team couldnt win trophies with a budget of 15m per year and a team of 21-23 years in average against teams with 80-100m budget per year and a team of 28-30 years in average …..unlike how media and some of our fans would have us believe.
and the insistence of some of our fans to go for the secondary trophies ( cc , cups whatever) was missing the point that those were and are consolation prizes. there is no harm in aiming high. unsurprisingly this was also used against the club as lack of ambition….