Returning Gunners And Poldi Goals Raise The Spirits
Apr 21st, 2014 by 'holic
“We looked like we had problems to score goals away from home recently. Him (Ramsey) and Ozil give us a cutting edge in the final third that makes us look more dangerous to score. You know as well as I do that football is down to quality of the players and we all know that. You could see that today.”
Arsene’s way of saying welcome back Aaron and Mesut, echoed by so many since the final whistle. If there was any doubt both have been missed it was removed as they contributed much to what turned into a very comfortable win, but one that didn’t look too likely early on.
The opening half an hour provided a stern test of the visitors resolve. Hull, looking for points to ensure Premiership safety, snapped into challenges and shut the Gunners down effectively across the park. Arsenal needed to knuckle down and earn the right to play. Even the advertising hoardings tried to get into the act, blowing onto the pitch but thankfully harming nobody. The match was competitive, and compelling viewing.
Mikel Arteta may not agree. Caught around the neck by Tom Huddlestone’s raised boot, then deprived of a front tooth by what looked like a flailing elbow from Shane Long, he was left wondering how neither challenge had been punished.
In that opening phase we had reason to be grateful that Wojciech Szczesny was at his most dominant. He emerged from more than one crowd scene in his area with the ball either caught or decisively punched. On a rare early foray we were somewhat surprisingly denied a spot-kick when Ozil was upended by Elmohamady. It would not be the last such incident.
Gradually the midfield rediscovered accuracy of distribution and a more attacking intent. Aaron Ramsey started and finished a move that involved Santi Cazorla and Mesut Ozil to give Arsenal the lead against the run of play. It heralded a twenty-five minute spell either side of half-time that blew our FA Cup Final opponents away.
Hull didn’t exactly lay down and die, and were so close to equalising when Livermore drove against the post. Before the whistle we had a second. Olivier Giroud and Aaron Ramsey combined to set up Lukas Podolski, already denied once by Harper, for yet another impressive finish. Less than ten minutes into the second-half he equalled his two goal showing against West Ham on Tuesday, slotting home the rebound after Harper saved Aaron Ramsey’s deflected strike.
A bit early, I thought, for the ‘holic pound to be secured, but word must have spread to the team. Giroud hit the bar from a yard and Per Mertesacker headed over from a set piece. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain was brought down in the box but once again Mr Moss failed to award the clear penalty. Further punishment would have been harsh on Hull although they did fade in the closing stages.
At the end of the day we can no longer catch Liverpool, now hot favourites for a first title in twenty-four years. On the other side of the coin we can no longer be caught by Manchester United, meaning last season’s title winners will miss out on Champions League football next season. They lost tamely at Goodison, meaning the battle for fourth place is far from won. Oh, and we will have to wait another week before celebrating St Totteringhams Day for the nineteenth consecutive year.
Key players are back, form and confidence are returning. There could yet be much to cheer over the closing four weeks of the season. Four more wins, please Arsenal.
421 Responses to “Returning Gunners And Poldi Goals Raise The Spirits”
Yeee haaa
Runner-up?
Öskar
WD cba.
Now, as I was saying before ‘holic got me with his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Haven’t see the game yet, but couldn’t resist checking the score. I shall now enjoy it without any of the usual angst.
Apparently they pressed us early as I thought they might, which would have left gaps that we exploited. What a difference Ramsey makes. If Özilla could also score as regularly we’d have the best midfield we’ve had for a decade.
All praise to Poldi the enigma. Why he’s been used so sparingly, especially when we need goals do badly, remains a mystery.
Slightly less worried about goal difference now. For it to matter we’d have to lose one while the toffees draw one. Otherwise unless we draw all three there’s little chance of us finishing on level points. Not that anything can’t still happen in this crazy season. Best to just win all three and pretend we always had it well covered.
Roll on St Totts Day.
Öskar
[…] Goonerholic: Returning Gunners And Poldi Goals Raise The Spirits […]
[…] Goonerholic: Returning Gunners And Poldi Goals Raise The Spirits […]
Misses out on a CL place in the most heartbreaking manner.
Good report Guv – it’s nice to type that once more.
Well in, CBA! We saw the same game ‘H. If only we had Ramsey and Mesut fit for the whole season, if only. Let’s just win our next four games.
Nice summary of events and it shows the respect that the team ( and the ref) have for the Holic pound that we stopped at three. This was a different game to the home game where TGSTEL scored after a minute and we toyed with them. This game had to be won but we are so much quicker in midfield where Huddlestone chugs around in midfield like a steam roller that we pinged the call around them all game. On this showing Im not certain where LJW fits in on his return . Poldi gives us real threat on the left and the Ox penetration on the fight. But he real bonuses were Ramsey running beyond Giroud and giving us another dimension and Ozil’s brilliant prompting which speeds our breaks up so much. It all goes to make Giroud much more effective because he isn’t isolated and has a regular supply of quality passes.
If we had got the penalties we deserved we would have notched five. Maybe we will get them at Wembley !
Poldi seems to shine with end of season flourishes.
Team did really well once the early storm was weathered.
No one can really accuse Arteta of giving a toothless display this time.
Is that my coat?, I call my own taxi…..bye
Full of good news today. 🙂
Top 10 like utd.
Double Canister, Actually quite the opposite. Absolutely toothless. 🙂
I hope he has a good dentist though.
Great win for many reasons.
Mesut and aaron were awesome and dominant.
The hammer was awesome.
Our passing game has returned.
We missed a couple as well which is good to see we are creating again
Giroud looks tired.
Did I say the hammer was awesome – oh yeah I did
Can’t believe we don’t give giroud a rest and just play the hammer down the middle old school style. No defending no tracking back just sit up front and fucking keep scoring with that left foot hammer.
Good in ya poldi.
Still can’t believe utd are out of everything
The down side is Liverpool fans are coming out of the woodwork and reminding me how generally arrogant and annoying they are.
Let’s just hope that Lukas Podolski will be fit, healthy and in good mood for the next season.
Keep the polish fella happy + Cologne or Bust!
I didn’t realize Mikel got his tooth knocked out!!
Those orange and black fuckers…
Did it happen at 2:30?
If you watch the TV replay, CoR, you can see it coming out.
Well put, as ever, ‘Holic. As per the previous drinks, Ozil an Ramsey showed how much we missed them while they were out.
Aussie, not sure Poldi is the man for the out-and-out front striker. He needs to be playing more facing goal to be most effective. 4-4-2 that would be the perfect formation for him, playing off the out-an-out No 9. He gets most of his goals from the left side channel.
cor, you can actually see it on video: http://youtu.be/HpONnRGzZpw. really sucks, it sure did look like a deliberate shoulder to face…
holic, I saw pretty much the same game. and after zwolle’s win today over Ajax, I am not going to take anything for granted, and hope the lads think the same way…
Thanks again ‘holic. Straight to the point as per usual. Don’t spend the ‘holic pound all in one place.
Oh Poldi…2 goals/game from here on in? Yeah? Thanks fella
What an away win. They went for it early and played a gritty (read dirty) game but full credit to the Arsenal. Soaked it up, and let our quality tell the story. On another day we would have had 2 pens as well.
Oh the what ifs. Though if I’m perfectly honest (which I’m usually not) I feel like even with Ramsey/Ozil/Walcott we would’ve come up short. Maybe we’d still be in title contention, maybe not. It’s impossible to say of course. But I still feel like we underinvested in the team last summer, particularly up front, and that that would have found us out. I know we’ve had especially bad luck with injuries (or set ourselves up for them, depending on your point of view) but we always lacked the requisite depth/quality up top and I think that would’ve found us out eventually.
All completely hypothetical and pointless of course. The point is, 3 good points were won today by an excellent performance. With Aaron and Mesut back, I like our chances of finishing 4th and hoisting the FA Cup as well. Onwards and upwards! The beer tastes good tonight.
Besides all the plaudits for Ramsey, Ozil and Podolski, two others deserve special mention. Szczesny had a blinder today. With another keeper we would’ve been down 1- or even 2-nil before Ramsey ever scored.
Also, a word for Koscielny. Maybe I just paid better attention today, but his reading of the game and his quickness were top-shelf.
Hull looked decent in the first thirty minutes but we hammered them after that. Nice to have it done and dusted after about 65 minutes, can’t remember a match like that in quite some time.
We must win the remaining games as I doubt Oil City will be up for the Everton match later in the season, after they are eliminated from the title. We may even be able to sneak up on them for third.
Nice job today boys.
2 stray observations:
(1) Ozil breaks into his celebratory trot to congratulate Ramsey before Ramsey even scores his goal, just when he (Ramsey) starts his run. Ozil even knows where Ramsey is going to run to celebrate. The man sees the future.
(2) A little kiss for Ramsey from Podolski after Podolski’s first. Then a little spittle on Podolski’s cheek immediately after. A wet one apparently? Weird.
COYG
Nice one ‘holic. And congrats again on the multiplying the pound.
Good, solid performance. 4 more wins and then a much needed rest. Plenty of time later to talk about next season but I do hope that we get some business done before the WC.
Scouse Cunts are going to win the league, I need 4th and an FA Cup trophy to be able to stomach that fact.
göönsterham, about Koscielny, he has been similarly magnificent all throughout the campaign. When the end of season comes Per would probably get most vote for the player of the season award because of the consistency and continuity — Rambo missing out a large chunk, Ozil and Kos missing quite a few games — but in my opinion Kos is our player of the season, should be in PL’s team of the season, and should even be in UEFA’s team of the season. Except for conceding the odd penalty and the impetuousness at the end of the home Bayern game in chasing a equalizer he has been flawless in playing what is essentially an aggressive proactive mode of defending while improving the defensive shape as well as contributing greatly to last-man-defending situations. Him and Per have found a great partnership and let us hope nothing disturbs that for the remainder of this season and a few more seasons to come.
And about what ifs: both of your observations can be true — we had definitely underinvested but at the same time if Rambo-Ozil-Theo were fit for most of the campaign we would have won the league. It was that type of a season. So going forward I think after that defensive midfielder and a fast tricky goal-scoring forward who can play centrally as well as in the wings, our third biggest investment for the next season must be in ensuring against this type of horrendous injury record. Whatever it takes: multiple external medical analysts, additional monitoring, newer technologies, new fitness training personnel and regimen…whatever it takes.
Cheers ‘holic!
Fuck me Moss is another incompetent wanker amongst many. 2 nailed on plelanties and how Elmohamady and that fat ex spud cunt did n’t get at least one card each is beyond me.
It looked a draw before the start of the game and well into 30 minutes of the game but then one moment of brilliance from the team and viola we were ahead and the rest of the game was more about how many more will we score.
The second half had to be the most boring seen in a long time but i am not complaining because that meant the game was long over before the final whistle.
Ramsey terrific, the magician was back and how, poldi continue to make it tough for us and the management, do we let him go or no this summer?.
3 points, everton refusing to give up and the title going to pool, what a weekend.
One solace, whatever may happen we will finish above united and that is a huge relief albeit in a season where we should have finished above everyone.
Fucking hell, wrote a drink and then for some reason (i.e. me hitting the wrong combination of keys) the whole post disappeared 🙁
But in essence it went like this:
Good game, Hull tried but we were too good. Holic, agree with everything you say in your report, and well played with the Holic pound!
Agree with Pontus that it would be nice to get some good business done before the world cup. Let others stew and worry for a change!
Still think we have to win all our remaining games to finish fourth as I can’t see a disillusioned and somewhat disintegrated ManCity take anything off Everton (same goes for a fatigued Southampton without Rodriquez) and Hull will rest players in the final game of the season. However, the upside of that is that if we do manage the three league wins we may actually have a chance to finish third. It is a small chance, but still a chance. I fully expect Liverpool to hammer Chelsea on Sunday (Chelsea have given up and will save players for Atletico) and essentially secure the title so if we do the business v Newcastle then we are just two points behind them.
Right, off out to quite literally dig myself into a hole. Have to do some preparatory work for finally getting a proper internet connection here in the country house.
Ramsey is without doubt our player of the year. End of discussion.
Öskar
Cheers all, have a great Monday.
Nice one Holic
Great win, early on we looked vulnerable but as everyone has said… Rambo and Ozil back in the team makes a hell of a difference.
Loved seeing Poldi get another two goals, his first was a great strike.
Keep playing him! he is a real threat in the box!
Any Arsenal fans in Auckland NZ, where are you watching the FA Cup Final?
Sorry Ötd, but my vote goes to Per. Has hardly missed a game, defensively solid, inspirational, just a Big Fucking Presence all season. I know he’s made a few mistakes but we’d have been fucked without him.
I remember him slagging Mesut off after the Etihad game for not going and saluting the fans – the man in a nutshell.
I remember in one of the Spuds games where Chadli was making a run in off the right and Big Per just stuck out a foot and put it on the ball and Chadli continued running without it – still laugh when I think about it.
And I remember when we signed him, he told that story of coming to London as a kid and buying an Arsenal shirt (his brother bought a Man Utd one), and when Werder told him Arsenal wanted him, his first thought was, “I have to go – I’ve got the shirt.” And he’s worn it with pride for nigh on 2 seasons now.
That’s my pitch.
Anyone seen or heard anything on HFB? He took his time going off and was limping a bit. Just hope it’s nothing serious – he’s going to be pivotal from here on in.
The problem I find with the “what ifs” is that I can’t really use it for anything. You can argue about how the table would look now if it hadn’t been for the injuries, especially to Ramsey and Walcott, but you can’t know for sure. The fact is we’re in 4th and it’s in our hands to stay there and take advantage of any slips by the teams above us. Anything else is a bit of a mind-fuck.
Win the next game.
Nice write-up, ‘holic and congrats on the bets.
I take it there was more than a single pound on the “Ramsey to score” bet.
Let’s be honest the confidence is still shaky, you could see that in the passing in first twenty mins. But as soon as we got that going we looked like we were going to score.3-0 seems harsh on hull. Our second came from jelavic going down with little or no contact from arteta and moss not blowing which is something that normally happens.once long and jelavic departed the result was in the bag. Think Bruce will use different formation come wembley in May. Now we welcome Newcastle and west brom and Norwich, whilst Everton have Southampton Manchester city and then hull so fourth really hinges on these next three. Our next two are probably our toughest though Newcastle have nothing to play for they have remi back and he does score goals. I take a 2-1 win in our next and think the decisive fixtures will be the west brom and city games would be nice not to have to wait until last day to clinch that fourth spot.
Summer shopping list (I know we won’t get them all but some dreams do come true):
Luke Shaw
Seamus Coleman
Luis Gustavo
Antoine Greizmann
Wilfried Bony
A reserve centre back
Very good piece in today’s times from Mattew Syed about Moaninho
“Mourinho may have great qualities as a manager, as he likes to remind us whenever a microphone is put near his mouth , but this is a very different thing for having class………..to my mind Sir Bobby Robson is worth a dozen Mourinhos”
Hear hear- actually it very much applies to Chavski too.
Mourinho has a personality disorder.
Dk Gooner
Great list in an alternative universe. We will get.
Brad Friedel
Gareth Barry
Miroslav Klose
Carlos Vela
A 17 year old centre back from the Ivory Coast with a gammy knee
Diaby will be like a new signing.
Actually looking at your list while I think Luke Shaw is the best left back in the country Gibbs will do for me. Coleman is great but Everton are not a selling club and I’m told Lars Bender is the dog’s *******s so I’d take him over Gustavo . I like the other suggestions but I’d try to get Bony and Morata . I think Schlar is likely to be the centre half and Aurier the right- back
Nice one, H.
Rambo is the berries.
Thanks bath.
More than a single pound on both, dk 😉
Ramsey is simply the best
Cheers ‘holic, afternoon all and Happy Easter
That game was a welcome change to the nailbitting, nerve wrecking, turtle inducing experiences of many of the last games. A thoroughly comprehensive performance and deserved win.
NBN @ 17- to be honest, I don’t actually understand why poldi can’t play the striking role in our formation.
First things first, giroud looks to me like he is knackered, and that is not a disrespectful comment, more a compliment for being played into the ground. He looks dog tired and his lack of touchy shows.
If we have pace out wide in ox and Gnabry, why couldn’t poldi play through the middle.
He really does strike the ball nice and he is strong in front of goal and seems to have a better first touch than Olivier.
Anyway, we are winning so all good I guess.
h2H – agree on the match was a pleasure to view watching us knock it around with 20 to go and 3 to the good.
FA cup just around the corner
Back drink done.
Interesting debate on who will/may be player of the season.
Ramsey, by far the stand out player for me, however, he has missed a large chunk of the season. Even so, he’s still one of our top scorers and is high up in the FFL midfielder points table. A good case could be made for both Per and Kos. Sagna and Woj not too shabby either. Tough choice this year imho.
Lars.
You dig your own holes? Hoe very manly. 😉
I had to do a spot of horticulturing myself the other day, can’t remember ever having so much weed(s) in one hand without a packet of Rizla in the other. Been stiff as a board since.
Richard.
I don’t think the 0-3 scoreline was harsh on Hull at all, it could of easily been a lot higher. We should of had, at the very least, one penalty, and on another day it might of been two. Plus we pretty much went into crusie controll after the third goal.
Aussie.
I see where you’re coming from in relation to the HFB, but I thought he was okay yesterday. He’s a lot better with the players that compliment his game returned to the team. In that respect, I still believe that Poldi can work better if he plays just off the shoulder of Giroud as opposed to being the lone striker.
There’s now a good week to get everyone rested and ready. The mood in the camp will have also improved after two good wins, plus with the players coming back into the team looking good, I think we’re finally back on track. It’s all in our own hands now.
H2H: Plus Rosicky got a day off – he also looked a bit buggered against the spammers. And Ox looked very lively when he came on. Suddenly we have all those midfield permutations back again with skill and pace. And Santi looking like he’s found his mojo and it’s still working.
Very positive all in all. Despite the shock result in Holland yesterday, I can’t see how Hull can do us damage at Wembley – maybe through frustrating us and getting one from a set piece, but they’re going to need more than one.
Can any of the wise holics on here advise of Gnabry is injured, other or on the outer ?
He is listed as having a knee injury, Aussie. No return date.
No comment needed:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/375335/He-has-risen-WATCH-Liverpool-s-Luis-Suarez-s-MIRACULOUS-Easter-resurrection
RE: Player of the Season, it has to be Rambo for me. He’s missed a chunk of the season yes, but his stats remain up amongst the best, such was his contribution till December. And upon his return after a 3 month layoff, he’s hit the ground running and looks to be an inspiration for the team. Definitely my vote for our player of the season.
NBN@51: lol…u gotta love it! and I thought Meryl Streep was good!
Good stuff, Holic, consistently better than any newspaper report.
Esso @25 – spot on. Another mystery – how do these professional officials get so many obvious decisions wrong ?
This is quiet funny
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/375335/He-has-risen-WATCH-Liverpool-s-Luis-Suarez-s-MIRACULOUS-Easter-resurrection
Dr Faustus,
Re injuries: I’m pretty sure Arsenal don’t lack for up to date technologies or, come to that, monitoring devices and systems.
The trouble is, no amount of monitoring will help if there are no players to rotate into the team in place of those who are in the dreaded red zone. We can hope that the problem of having so many of our younger players injured will self-correct as more more experienced ones are recruited. We can also only hope that our existing card school ever presents eventually outgrow their problems.
Something simple like some side effect free, legal supplements like a bit of manganese might help in the meantime. Manganese is a super anti-oxidant that promotes healthy bone and connective tissue development. It also regulates blood sugar levels – as does chromiun – and cleans up free radicals, thereby reducing inflammation, especially in arthritis prone joints.
I’m sure this has all been considered – particularly in the light of Arsene’s recent comments about hair loss supplements possibly contributing to our problems ! A bit bizarre, I have to say, especially as I cannot think of a single bald player in our squad. Unless Bouldy is handing them out like sweets ?
The other issue for me is the whole thing of spending hours in aeroplanes flying around the Far East during pre-season. With players already involved in seemingly never ending international tournaments throughout each summer, you have to wonder how rest and pre-season training are properly accommodated in the schedule.
Maybe they’re not ?
We are ALL free radicals. 😎
I’m not.
My bill is in the post. 😎 😎
I’m free.
don’t you have to speak manganese when you post in the arses?
Come on, H2H, sre you free or not? We should be told!
Look, if you’re going to split hairs, I’m going to piss off ! 😉
That wasn’t me, that was Mr Humphries.
Shit. 😳
Pearls to swine, Trev – pearls to swine. 🙂
As it’s Easter, shouldn’t that be “splitting hares”?
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/21/david-moyes-sack-manchester-united
@67 DK
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! 😀
The silence coming from Old Toilet is deafening;
David Moyes update
BBC Sport has been chasing confirmation on newspaper reports stating that David Moyes is set to be sacked by Manchester United, but the club are offering no comment on these reports at present.
Re: The Guardian article linked by dk at 67. (Caution: Grammar Police intervention!!)
I can only assume this sentence from the article is a direct quote from the upper level brass at Manchester United because it is inconceivable to me that a Guardian writer could use such bad English and do it so badly.
“The chief concern for the board is how bad the team have played throughout the season under Moyes, with little sign of improvement.”
Dkg,
Not that anyone cares, but it just seems that Ferguson’s conceitedness led him to appoint the closest thing to himself that he could find.
There’s no doubt that Moyes did a great job for Everton and found some gems in Baines, Coleman, Barkley (possibly), in the youth system and the transfer bargain basement.
At ManUre he has looked lost since day one, seems to have lost the confidence of his top players, and wants to turn Utd into Everton Mk II.
Having bought Fellaini for £20+ million and turned him into a misfit, why would the Utd board trust him to spend £100+ million in the summer.
Sorry, maybe that’s what the link piece says – couldn’t honestly be bothered to read it.
Some people actually wanted Moyes to replace Wenger as I recall.
A bullet dodged, no question.
Here’s hoping Utd appoint someone equally as out of their depth which at least allows us to score a goal against them next season.
Our inability to beat that mob this season will rankle with me for a long time. 🙁
If Moyes goes it will be Van Gaal (according to every Dutch reporter the last few weeks).
Trev @ 56: Agreed on most points, and hope that the medical facility does regular blood analysis to detect potential nutrient imbalance etc. and supplement regimens are designed holistically per player keeping in mind different diet habits and specific physical problems.
The whole area of supplements interactions can be an unchartered territory especially given the vast amount of quick-cure remedies for eveything that is available over the counter. I took Arsene’s ‘hair-loss supplement’ as an euphemism for something even less flattering. 🙂
Maybe not the technology and the available data per se, but the analytical abilities of the medical stuff to use that data maybe something that can be improved upon? Or are we saying we have the best personnel in the world in sports medicine?
You are also right about the long distance flights pre-season. As someone who has done many a 3-continent hopping journeys and read up a bit about it, they have corrosive effects on circulation health as well as immunity.
I also wonder whether a lot of these young players can do with a better individual insight into their own well being. I know Yoga has become such a byword for pretentiousness in modern west (for reasons that are unfortunate), but as a practitioner since early teen age years (an ordinary practitioner, not the twisted calisthenics champions that now flood the Yoga studios in US, pushing themselves towards the extreme and in the process forgetting the basic idea of balance that inform the entire body of physical or ‘Hatha’ Yoga practices) I have always found that it gives one a deeper insight about one’s physical state and makes you sense problems or concerns a bit earlier. Also helps one cope better with illnesses and injuries. Youth being a time for macho bravados and excessive self-confidence in one’s ability to play through the pain barrier etc. maybe Yoga would be beneficial to many of these young players in creating a better sense of balance and understanding of their own body?
Dug that hole, climbed out of it (it was, in all honesty, only about two feet deep) and enjoyed a gloriously sunny day (today is a holiday in Sweden, so no work and all play) so it’s been a good one today.
I’ve seen a lot of talk about why Poldi isn’t played as a striker lately, but didn’t anyone but me noticed that to all intents and purposes we did play two up front yesterday? Poldi was nominally playing on the left of the front three but he didn’t spent many seconds of the game out on the wing except when, you may wish to note, he tracked back to defend which he did splendidly on several occasions. Both his goals came from distinctly centralattackerish positions.
Like Sarah J and others it’s Ramsey for player of the season for me.
Trev: of course there are no players without hair – they’ve been taking them pills, you know! 🙂
As for long-haul flights, let’s not forget that they fly in the most luxurious of planes for those trips and while that still affects the body it’s not like they have to sit crammed into a space designed for people half the size of the average person for 13 hours so I’d wager it’s a lot less taxing than it would be for normal people. And besides, pretty much all teams do these tours these days.
What I really want to know are the odds on Moyes’ successor lasting less time in the job than Moyes.
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/2/9276608/premier-league-manchester-united-manager-david-moyes-backed-by-punters-to-be-sacked
Remember something about ryan giggs doing yoga to try and get over his injury-proneness, so maybe there really is something in it!
Personally I think taiji is great too. Since it was a completely new discipline for my body to adjust to, it really gave me new insights into how my body moves (the slowness kind of encourages that self-reflection).
It’s probably a case of marginal benefits versus costs though, since the time spent doing these may well be spent doing something that may help more, but judging from all the time Podolski and co spend on tweeting and playing Playstation I think the marginal costs are probably closer to zero…
If the bookies really have closed the book on Moyes, that speaks louder than a thousand Grauniad articles.
While it’s a delight to see United where they are, it’s a bit sad blaming everything on Moyes when you look at the squad SAF left him. It’s true they won PL but the writing was on the wall with such an ageing squad.
The dilemma for the MU board is that they need to get new players in, but will they want to come with “David Who?” in charge.
The other good news is that DM has five years of his contract remaining, so paying him off is going to eat in to the money available for new players.
It’s sad if Manure pin their failures this season on Moyes. It shows the Board have as much understanding of football as the average Manure plastic, and for that matter Arsenal plastic, blaming the manager for everything as if there was someone else with a magic wand waiting in the wings. Manure were at the end of a cycle which Demento stretched for one season by blowing his wad on a certain Dutchman. That fella delivered the exit ticket. Moyes arrives and all the old codgers seize up and the prima donnas throw sickies.
Give the fella a chance.
Remember the banner at OT after 3 years of SAF:
“3 Years of excuses and it’s still crap. Ta-Ra Fergie.” (December 1989)
Different times – different board.
Hope you listened to this weeks Tuesday Club podcast Trev. Your piece got a mention.
Thanks baff 😉
Beautifully summarised, bath.
They still feckin’ deserve it though – just for what Ferguson got away with for all those years !
DK.
I would strongly disagree, I believe that the blame must be laid at Moyes’ door.
This time last year, the same team, walked the league. Now they are an embarrassment, toothless and clueless, they are a shell of what they were 12 months ago. Tacticaly they are lost and what has happened to that never say die United attitude? Fergy time was all of sudden advantagous to their opponents.
Ofcourse the players are not totally free from blame, but the fact that Moyes hasn’t fielded the same team twice in a row throughout the entire season suggests he hasn’t a clue what his best team is, indecision is fatal and his bumbling with the starting line up doesn’t exactly exube confidence.
He also got rid of the entire coaching staff, a move I kind of understand, but one that has backfired. If he’s not to blame then who is?
Well, Fergiscum for appointing him, but he’s already gone, and the board for letting the departing king choose his successor, but they are not going to fire themselves now, are they?
Truth be told, I’m surprised he lasted as long as he did.
Yes I did, Holic.
Was that the mention about 4 minutes from the end of the Kallstrom edition ?
If so, we did go over that a bit in the previous bar – or has it been followed up ?
Trev, they do indeed deserve prolonged mediocrity after Demento’s years of manipulating referees and results.
It’s laughable that a source of Maureen’s mounting irritation and loss of his ‘placid veneer’ is his inability to manipulate officials and results in the same manner. He clearly thought he would take over that ‘role’.
H2H I fully agree Moyes made critical strategic errors but entire responsibility for the failure to buy their targets and the deterioration in RvP, Giggs, Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra and the failure to replace Scholes cannot be laid at his door.
Just caught up with it this morning Trev 🙂
Holic @83, what did I do?
Pointed me at TTC 🙂
I suppose it’s too much to hope that Birmingham get relegated this season.
You are most welcome, sir.
Aussie, I don’t disagree with you about Polidi’s attributes that you highlight. My point was that they are better suited for someone playing the second striker in a 4-4-2 than playing the lone striker in a 4-2-3-1, which has been AW’s default formation. Yet, having fallen out of favour, 4-4-2 is making something of a comeback with top sides when they want to play a counter attacking game against other big sides. Real Madrid deployed it in the Spanish cup final against Barcelona with Bale playing Poldi to Benzema’s Giroud. You need pace on the opposite flank to your second striker, but we have that in Theo/the Ox/Gnabry, and attacking firepower from the defenders behind him. Again we have that with Gibbs and Nacho, though we are arguably lacking a left-sided midfielder who combines playmaking with strong defensive discipline. Santi has the former but less of the later. You also need a defence that can soak up the pressure of playing deep. But, again, we have that, at least when Kos and the BFG are playing. I wouldn’t expect AW to rebuild his formation around Poldi, and the sort of 4-4-2 outlined above has its own set of issues about who would comprise the midfield four, but it certainly offers a plan B, and even a potential plan A in some matches.
Bath@81. Spot on about the Mancs. Fergie squeezed an extra season out of a side that was already past its sell-by date. Whether he did the honourable thing by not leaving his successor a team in rebuilding to his blueprint — or a dastardly one — I’ll leave to you to judge.
NBN,
We would need a fully fit Diaby and a physical copy of Diaby who can actually defend in our midfield to adopt a 4-4-2. Would be great fun, but if Poldi were to be the second striker, where would Ozil play. Or do you see him as a Pires type winger ?
@94 – dastardly, by default. 😉
Trev, you hit the nail on the head with the Ozil question, and it is what I was alluding to with the “own set of issues about who would comprise the midfield four”. Assuming Theo/Ox/Gnabry is the right-sided one of that quartet, Ramsey is one of the two in the middle, Arteta/his younger replacement as DM/bionic Diaby is the other, that leaves only the left-sided slot for one of Ozil, Santi, Rosicky and Jack. it is not a natural position for any of them. They all fit a 4-2-3-1 far better.
@96: 🙂
If Moyes is out, the bookies have a three-way race between van Gaal, Klopp and Giggsy to replace him.
If he os out, then it will be van Gaal – no question.
dk: The other good news is that DM has five years of his contract remaining, so paying him off is going to eat in to the money available for new players.
I wouldn’t be too sure about that, unfortunately. There may very well be a clause saying they only have to pay him a certain amount to fire him. Apparently Alain Pardiuex will be payed one year’s wages if he’s sacked from his eight-year contract at Newcastle, for example.
Isn’t that a 1 year contract then ??
Well in Trev.
Thank you very much – scores when I wants 😉
Gents. I agree that SAF fashioned one last hurrah for himself so he cou;d selfishly go out on a high, but ask yourselves this;
Would Manure be in the position they are today if the purple conked wino was still at the helm?
Would there of been so many lathargic performances from that title winning squad?
Would he have allowed the level of so many of his stars to plummet?
I believe that the dark lord would never of stood for it.
As for Moyes, he’s looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights since September. From watching tv, seeing him on the touchline you could almost taste the fear. He literaly looks petrified. His demeaner in interviews wouldn’t of helped him much either.
He had done nothing in his career to prepare him for a job of the size of the Old Toilet hot seat. I understand why he took the opportunity, but he failed and in the high pressure world of top clas football ultimtly the buck must stop at him.
He’ll make out like a bandit though, what with that six year contract.
Giggs for Moyes at Old Toilet gets my vote. He has no management experience and as far as I recall he only ever played under Chewy McP, so would presumably attempt to emulate his “style”, and would almost certainly fail. Plus, he’d be an incredibly popular choice with the fans so they’d have to keep him on for ages.
Please, please, please.
Given that Moyes was selected (nay promoted) as his successor by Fergie himself, then isn’t Moyes’s failure to a certain extent failure of Fergie to choose his own successor? Just like he had failed to truly replace the old guard of Giggs-Scholes and the wing play of Ronaldo?
Man U had this long time coming. And long may this collapse continue.
Fair points H2H – Not a chance that this meek march to mediocrity would happen under Demento – there would be blood and guts on the dressing room wall and a rescue purchase or three would have appeared. Likewise if Maureen had been chosen. However IMHO, long may Moyes reign.
Trev@100: well in! It wouldn’t make it a one-year contract as such as the club still decides if they want to keep him on and wages and stuff doesn’t have to be renegotiated every year. But it is of course still far from the eight-year, long-term solution that the club wants to portray it as. I guess it was an attempt to calm the waters around the club.
H2H: no, there wouldn’t – but the point is that if Ferguson had stayed on he would have started to rebuild the squad instead of splashing it all on the Dutch chap for one last hurrah before he retired.
Moyes is certainly not without blame (I think he should have sold Rooney rather than cater to his demands to name but one thing) but he was given the managerial equivalent of a hospital pass.
Nice to see all ‘holics looking forward to a tasty transfer season! I know this may sound like heresy towards the ‘need a top quality striker’ club, but, I hope the Boss, or whoever may be there, will prioritize the cash on a monstrous and scary defense that does not let in scores such as 6-3, 5-1, 6-0, etc (even early in yesterday’s game, suddenly Long – was him wasn’t it? – was right behind everyone and looking directly at Sir Ches…hello? anybody there?) Enough high line, lets keep it low! 🙂 My ticker is not strong enough when I see this happening, and I have to drink more red wine to strengthen it…
Feng @ 77: Tai-chi I heard is great for its meditative benefits. Same actually is true for Yoga, all of its poses are to be done with special attention to breathing and never in a competitive spirit or excited state. There are even techniques to control the somewhat involuntary priapism that happens with certain poses. It is a paradox very particular to Indian thought: an exercise to well being has techniques to control the obvious manifestations of well-being. 🙂
I had read somewhere that Gibbo has apparently opted for his own additional personal fitness trainer outside the club’s facilities and that trainer had recommended Yoga from which he had benefited this season.
Anyway, Yoga or Tai-Chi or something similar to have a better psychological relationship with one’s own body and its signals.
Pangloss: I agree, Giggs would almost certainly be a totally disastrous appointment so let’s hope they go for him 🙂
Downward facing dog ?
Oo-er ! 😉
Trev@111: ‘Excuse me, are you married’.
http://youtu.be/97aB71F-430
Bath, I hope he stays forever.
Lars, firstly from a while back. Good call on Poldi, he did look deployed in a more central role.
As for the “hospital pass”, yes it was, but he took it on, he must of known what he was getting himself in to.
All I’m saying is, that if he gets the ol Spanish archer, then it should come as no real surprise. Man U are in a rut and he has shown no sign that he has the tools to get them out of it.
Per : “I think the whole team has to switch on quicker than normal to avoid those balls behind us …
“When you have your whole squad together for as long as possible, that can make a difference. We suffered a bit in the second part of the season but now everyone is… coming back to full fitness. We’ve had some long-term injuries and it’s good to have them all back.”
——————————————————
Hence for next season, focus on :-
1. Getting into stride from the get go!
2. Injury prevention and fitness!
Of course an additional striker would be welcome but if we do the above 2, then it is of my opinion that we really do not need anyone else!
Can’t wait for the next match! 🙂
NBN @ 43: Excellent point about the suitability of our current personnel in 4-4-2. Another possibility could be playing Ozil as the old school no.10 and Poldi (or an improved version) as the old school number 9. You will have to play a new physical-technical DM and Rambo in the center of the midfield, and play Theo and Santi on both wings. However as you pointed out Santi is not natural for that role and you will have to find a replacement for him as well.
So 4-4-2 is a desperate alternative then, and that I believe we can use with less worries against lesser oppositions in PL. But in Europe I don’t think tactically it would work because it conceded too much space to the opposition and in modern football more space->more control -> more possession -> better chance of winning. We can play the 4-4-2 as ‘underdog’ against say a Bayern or Barca to snatch an away win or draw etc. but cannot sustain a CL run.
Another aspect about 4-4-2 and its suitability is how much of our current preparations are conducive to it: working in small spaces, intricate one-twos, quick pass-and-movement in tightly packed areas etc. are apparently the basis of our most drills. So the team is set to play through the middle as the primary mode of attack, and fall back on wing play only when counter attacking.
The problem with that is we yet don’t seem to have the perfect personnel for the 4-2-3-1, or have arrived at a perfect team line-up for it. When everyone is fit do we play Santi on the left and Theo on the right? Or Poldi on the left? Can we play all three interchangeably? I think it is the latter that is what Arsene would like to do (throw in Ozil in the mix as he too can drift wide and let say Santi move more centrally) and maybe that is where some of his frustrations with some players, in lack of their evolution and lack of adaptability.
Just my impressions. I could be wrong.
Moyes latest
Neil Custis, football correspondent with The Sun, has been speaking to BBC Radio 5 live about newspaper reports saying that David Moyes is set to be sacked by Manchester United:
“This is nailed down, I would expect it to be announced tomorrow, undoubtedly before Saturday. Yesterday’s performance at Everton was the final straw. There has been a lack of faith in his ability since the 2-0 defeat to Olympiakos. They expected a down-turn of sorts no matter who took over from Sir Alex Ferguson, but to second or third, not to seventh.”
Trev @ 111: Dhanurasana or “Bow Pose” — http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/875 — is actually what one would want to look out for. 🙂
just rewatching the last half of the first half, and the goals especially. i was reminded now of a thought i had at the time of the second goal, that ozil’s pass to giroud was perfect. it was taken early, when there weren’t enough defenders to take the ball from giroud, and it allowed him to set up for the runners (ozil, ramsey, and poldi) to come in. the rest was beauty.
it points to something i’ve seen when ozil is not in the side, that our breaks often slow down because we’re not making the adventurous pass early in the break, and the defense is getting set enough when the pass to the forward(s) happens it’s forced to go into a crowd rather than to a striker who is in more of an isolation situation.
iirc the pires/bergkamp/viera/henry breaks were more like this, where all along the way the ball kept moving and the speed of the ball ahead of the defense kept the defense from organizing, allowing us to run in and play killer passes for beautiful goals. that changed in the fabregas era and onwards, with tikitaka slowing the play, and until ozil arrived it didn’t seem to be able to change. with theo, gnabry, ox, and a more mobile striker, if we can return to that *style* of break, we’ll score considerably more goals.
scruz @ 118: Good point about Ozil’s ability to provide the early first pass to set up the attack. To be fair Cesc was capable of doing that well and Cesc-to-Theo route of counter attack did yield us a few goals. The problem was Cesc was also often the runner (i.e., Rambo) for many of those moves and Theo at that time was very inconsistent at delivering the final ball and poor at holding it up. I remember one particular goal away at Newcastle in that infamous 4-4 match where everything went precisely.
BB @114 –
we are definitely going to need at least one striker in the summer – at least.
faustus, cesc could do it, but we moved so heavily to be barcelona lite we ceased to move it onwards from there. if you notice, while giroud is setting up his cross to ramsey NONE of the defense is static, and rather than playing the break they’re running back to their positions…to which they don’t get when poldi lashes it home. hleb or van persie in giroud’s position would have waited for everyone to show up (including, or espeically, cesc), then tried to pass through the defense entirely.
i also want to note giroud’s contritubtion to the third goal, which was to bring down chezza’s punt under control and get it to ozil, who initiated the move from the right side. the hfb continued running the right channel, and drew out the defense, allowing poldi to slip in to nip the rebound into the net. as with last game, it’s a prime reason why he’s in the squad, number of goals scored or no.
@120 Trev
I am suspecting as much, since no one expects Giroud to be able to play the whole season. That being said, would really like Sanogo to get more games, he’ll probably be ready in a season or two.
Recalling Joel Campbell would be interesting without having to pay over the odds in an inflated market. No doubt his performance in the world cup would probably determine that outcome.
scruz @ 121: Exactly, agree fully. That is what I meant by Cesc also having to be the runner in most of those cases.
Also fully agree with, and myself have commented a few times, about Giroud’s quite unique abilities and how those contribute pivotally. Here is a center forward who by his own admission enjoys the collective goal to which he contributed and not scored as much as his own and his playing ‘ethics’ demonstrate that mentality. I think the way we are set up to play, he really is crucial and whoever we buy as the other striker in the transfer window he should be able to play not only with him but also in his place.
The team cannot have an existential crisis. Which is what it had the moment Rambo went out. We can have the odd 4-4-2 as plan B but in terms of strengths of the players we have, the way we are trained and the football we want to play we need to really find multiple personnel to fit in with this 4-2-3-1. Jack must up his game to play the Rambo role — in his own inimitable ways, but the basic philosophy would have to be aligned — and Santi and Ozil should be able to interchange seamlessly. That doesn’t mean they should play similarly or lose uniqueness, it is just that they should be able to do similar types of things with a consistent quality. We cannot become over reliant on Ozil and Rambo.
Gonna have to think bigger than that, I’m afraid, BB.
No more clues. 😉
Dr F @117 – same to you, you filthy beast ! 😉
demento classic bath 🙂
Evening everyone from nicely springweathered (is that even a word eh?) Prague.
Very pleasant result and even better backdrink here at the bar. Being slightly tipsy already I will keep it short.
Totally agreed on opinions that Ramsey and Özil were sorely missed. Rambos selfless runs suddenly create another option for us in the attack while Mesuts passing is just something else, even if he did look bit rusty, that mans vision and ability to deliver the pass he wants is second to none.
scruz @121 and Faustus @123 – spot fucking on regarding HFB. Giroud, as frustrating as he was in some games, posseses unique combination of strenght, technique (that goal against West Ham..interplays with Jack against Norwich or TR against Sunderland and many other occasions) and ability to bring others to play that only other striker who has these perks and comes to mind right now is Zlatan.
Apart from being devilishly handsome, when OG has right players around him he indeed is pivotal for the style of play we …uh…play now. Finding a striker of his mould is going to be tough, so I suppose we are going to look for someone to complement him rather than substitute and AW is going to try to breed Yaya in Girouds way.
A midfielder running beyond the striker and he is back !
Just what we have been missing.
Delightful stuff on Sunday. Resilience, attacking guile, and some delightful goals. Fully expect us to push on now and win the FA Cup, avoiding 4th place and a playoff would be nice to.
Got to say though, this only adds a sadness and a sense of ‘what if?’ to the season. Watching Santi, Poldi, Giroud really strut some class you wonder where it was over the last 6 weeks? Oh well.
The wonderful thing about Arsene Wenger is that it is always a treat to watch when you take a bit of perspective and even it out over a season. This one has been no different. Just ended far too soon, in the league at least. Be lovely to go add another pot into the record books though and really this group deserve it. They could have had more and they may well do next season.
Ozil, Ramsey, Wilshere, Cazorla, Theo ahead of a base of Schez, Kosc, and the BFG is the makings of a great team. Just need a few bits in between the lines. If I can just get put through to that dirtbag Gazidis I might get things moving but the fuckers keep cutting me off at “why can’t I get no damn tang around here.”
el puno. where has it been the last six weeks? injured, clearly, in the bodies of our mesut one and the welsh jesus. and kozzer, i’d voucher.
they’re now back in the squad, and can strike with the precision of a surgeon’s scalpel…everyone is lifted, and the team plays much, much better.
simple, really.
Finally got to see the game, sorry if it’s all old hat now. But I seem to have watched a different one to some here. They were all over us for most of the first half and but for the grace of Lady Luck we could have been a couple down, not up, by oranges. I don’t like to think what might have happened if we hadn’t won.
The usual suspects, Santi and Özil, gave the ball away or had it taken off them far too often, Kos had an unusually poor one and if Bacs and Sir Ches hadn’t had joint MOTM performances we could have been chasing the game, not cruising away with it.
Much better in part 2, thank Dennis, but we needed to be. Great to see Rambo looking so lively for the whole game and a couple of nice passes from Özil, although he was otherwise mostly anonymous even against Hull’s ropey defence. Apparently most here thought he had a good game. He didn’t. Watch it again and you’ll find he got it wrong at least three out of every four touches. I know I harp on about him and I understand it’s his first season and he’s just back from an injury etc etc etc etc … but I expect more, a lot more, considering his reputation. And Rambo is only recently back from a lot longer off and has hit the ground running.
Of the rest Poldi was Poldi, more power to his left foot, still our best striker. He has to start in all remaining games, imo. Plenty of energy from Nacho causing problems down the left flank. Per in solid form.
For once I was glad to know the score beforehand since I could watch and evaluate without seeing demons everywhere!
Öskar
Nice wish list, dkg (#35). Here was mine from a few rounds back:
Luke Shaw
Seamus Coleman
Mats Hummel
Marco Reus
Lucas Moura
I’ll settle for the last two as attacking midfielders instead of an out and out striker. With OG upfront, Theo everywhere and Rambo coming from deep we could have goals coming from all directions, with some useful bench sitters including Poldi. 4-1-4-1 formation.
Öskar
Oskar. I also saw that frailty throughout almost the entire first half. It just shows how narrow the margins are between winning and losing. Especially considering they had one come back out off the inside of the post at a key moment. Ramsey made a big difference too.
I don’t for a moment suggest that 4-4-2 should be our default formation, Dr F. It fell out of favour for the reason you highlight, a team can get outnumbered in midfield. But it does provide an alternative to be used on occasion, either as a tactical switch during games or, I believe, as a starting line-up against some of the better sides in Premiership away games, who won’t be parking the bus. It suits a counterattacking game so requires the opposition to be coming onto us, and for us to be ready to defend deep for lengthy periods. Or, if we are to use it against bus parkers, we probably need a 3-5-2/3-2-3-2 variant. That requires a DM who can act as a third centre back while the full backs play high, almost as wide midfielders (though I whisper it gently, an Andre Santos-like role). But it would require a different sort of DM than Arteta, one more like Busquets at Barca or David Luiz for the Chavs. Alex Song would have been the last player we had who was anything like that, though Vermaelen might be able to be converted into one. I agree with you that 4-4-2 won’t get us very far in CL games, except perhaps against specific opponents. I also agree we haven’t got quite the right mix of players to make 4-2-3-1 work. The missing piece is the left-sided player in the midfield three. As Tim Stillman noted a while back, AW has never found a replacement for Pires there. Theo can work the right, and Ozil the centre, with Giroud or an upgrade in font of them and Ramsey and son of Arteta behind. But the left of midfield remains a vacuum.
Ramsey’s contributions cannot be judged simply by the result of the games he’s played in, cyber. A player can have a cracking game and still be on the losing side or play poorly in a game his side wins.
By your reckoning all Liverpool players are better than all Arsenal players, whereas I think that a composite side from the two clubs would have about half from each.
And Ramsey would be one of the first picked.
Öskar
NBN @ 136: Yes, agreed that as a tactical switch within a game or as you said a ‘reactive’ formation ay away matches against fellow title contenders a 4-4-2-ish formation has its merits.
I actually thought Song was going to become that DM for us. I know he had tactical discipline problems — bombing up without any regards for the defensive responsibilities — and hence once Arteta joined in the 11-12 season they ended up working so well together, Arteta staying back whenever Song lost the plot. But I had hoped Arsene would be able to complete the transformation of a player who at his first appearances in the Arsenal shirt was pretty much written off. I am sure as is often the case Song himself lacked that little bit of extra desire and humility to really make that step, but in his last season he looked like getting close to becoming that player.
Agreed about the need for that left sided playmaker-goalscorer-inverted winger to really put the finishing touches on the 4-2-3-1. Maybe Reus? One can hope.
That brings me to what I think is the key conundrum to the current Arsenal line-up: how best to fit Ozil and Santi together. Or, for that matter, should they play together if the rest of the key members are all fit? I am not convinced that we have really found a way to have them complement each other well. In some games we had arrived at good compromises — both being rather intelligent team players — but there have too many attacks where both instinctively gravitated towards the same space before one (typically Ozil) realizing the problem and then making space for another. I am a big fan of Santi, and his last season with us was fantastic, but I have started to notice something about his playing style that may explain why he never — despite all the chances — moved to the big two in Spain. He works best as a wandering attacking mid but always with ball on his feet. He has got fabulous skills, great passing but maybe not an equally good off-the-ball movements and positioning. He almost works as the left sided midfielder a la Pires but except for this natural tendency to simply gravitate towards where the ball is. He was our main player last season as he was the creative hub as well as the main goalscoring threat from the midfield, but I don’t think we have yet found a way to best play him in the presence of another creative hub in Ozil and a genuine runner in Rambo.
Reus is the most Pires-type player in Europe currently and would be a mouth-watering buy for us.
Öskar
If we could buy three players I’d opt for Coleman Hummels and Reus…
…………………..Szczesny………………..
Coleman..Mertesacker..Koscielny..Gibbs
………………….Hummels…………………
Walcott……..Ozil…….Ramsey……..Reus
…………………..Giroud……………………
Öskar
@Oskar
Hummels is a centre back – you may be thinking of Gundogan, who plays def mid but hasn’t kicked a ball this season and has just signed a new contract.
Re: Ozil, suggest you watch the state of our midfield in the four or five games he was out, then rewatch Sunday’s game with those performances fresh in your mind. The notion that he’s a “usual suspect” when it comes to giving the ball away is eyebrow raising, to say the least.
Moyes has been sacked
Do you give out the lottery numbers as well, stephen ?
One of the reasons Ozil is so so important is because he’s one of the very few footballers who don’t give away the ball easily – always a sign of a top player. His creativity and Rambo’s relentless work rate is the “Oil” Wenger has been alluding to that was missing in the engine.
I’ve said from the start of the season, that if Moyes didn’t make top 4 in the CL that he’d be gone. It now looks like those steps have been taken and there’s still games to play this season. Again goes to show how lucky we’ve been with Arsene and what a poor call it was to let Fergie make that call.
I’ve always thought that Wenger will sign for another 2 years despite all the speculation and still believe that to be the case.
Man Utd Supporters Trust:
“We deserve the very best manager in the world”.
Oh yeah ? We don’t, I suppose …….
So dislikable.
Today feels like a good one to bury bad news like a serious defeat at the Vicente Calderon. What say you Jose?
Just goes to show. Making top four year after year ain’t as easy as it looks.
I am sure Fergie would have set up Moyes’ contract such that if Moyes was to get the sack he would be set for life.
So what was the golden handshake? Imagine getting rewarded for failing your job.
Further proof that the BBC know nothing came with the interview with a so-called Financial Expert just before 8.00 who said that it was important to get the revenue from the CL.
Honestly, where do they find these people? Surely everyone knows that it’s a good thing for a club to spend a few years in the wilderness from time to time so they can refresh their playing staff etc. It worked for Liverpoo
I can feel myself being laid up the garden path by all these “what-ifs” fluttering round my brain.
Best to get on with the daily round and just see what happens.
Mind you, if Arsenal were to get Reus or Griezmann …
Klopp has just expressly ruled himself out of the Utd job, says his contract is “unbreakable”.
It’s going to be Van Gaal.
Which begs the question: if Arsene goes next month, who on earth are we going to appoint?
Arsene will not go next month unless we fail to get fourth place. Courage, mon brave.
N7,
Its always amuses me to think that Klopp would be an option. I’ve always thought he was nothing more than a soundbite. Klopp has spend his entire playing and managerial career at two different clubs (Mainz & Dortmund). He doesn’t change horses. Never has. He’s already turned down big offers to manage other clubs. And he has a contract until 2018 at Dortmund. Why would he take, what would probably be a relatively small pay rise (because I would imagine he’s being paid seriously good money at Dortmund), to invite such risk and pressure to attain short term success with a foreign team in a different country, language, etc. He’d be very silly to throw away the faith and goodwill he’s built with Dortmund for the whimsical foibles of an Oligarch, Sheikh or Sugardaddy.
Klopp is smart. Which is why I think he’ll stay put and continue to do thing “his way”. Remind you of anyone?
Then again, he must be as tired as the rest of us at being subjected to the incessant brainless drool of morons who cannot comprehend the whole picture.
Bath,
I just can’t see him going even if I try hard to persuade myself. Even if, for example, we loose the FA Cup and finish outside of the CL – I still think he’ll stay. Neither result (either winning or loosing the Cup/CL place) would be a fitting end to his tenure. And now that we have money, largely because of all he’s done, he’ll want a crack at adding a few more players to bring this team to fruition.
Joe,
I would welcome that but I do think he would feel that he hasn’t delivered his own target if he fails to get fourth. I also think the incessant wailing of the “Wenger Out – There Must Be A Tooth Fairy Brigade” must get a bit wearing.
I do not for a moment believe however that he will leave the club in the lurch and therefore you may be right that the decision is made and it’s now just a question of timing the announcement.
Bath,
While I do feel that there probably is no harsher person to judge his own performance than Wenger himself, I think once he takes a distance and views what he’s done over the last 17 years, he’ll want to end on a high note. Is the “FA Cup” or CL Qualification a high note? Or how would it look if he resigned after loosing an FA Cup or CL place? Neither present palatable options from where I sit.
Irrespective of how things peter out this season I think with the addition of a few top class players, we have a serious team that will challenge for both a domestic and European honours.
We were very unlucky this year. And Liverpool have been very very lucky.
Despite all that, I would much prefer to see the scousers win it than the Chavs or Citeh. To my mind Suarez is the best player in the world at the moment. As prolific as Ronaldo with an even greater work rate and assist level in a far more competitive league. And Messi, for me, has been on the wane by his own high standards for some time now. I think Suarez will go to Real in the summer and who knows, we might benefit indirectly by getting another Real player to part fund the deal.
@Joe
I agree with almost all of that, except the bit about Suarez being the best player in the world.
He’s the best player in the Premier League. He’s not in the top 5 best players in the world.
The best players in the world are at the biggest clubs, deciding the biggest games, with big performances. Suarez is a quality player, and I was desperate for us to sign him in the summer, but his reputation is largely built on humping goals past the likes of Norwich. This season, for example, he’s failed to score in six games against Arsenal, City and Chelsea.
I will be very interested to see how he goes next season, but I think right now the likes of Ronaldo, Robben and Messi are still well ahead of him in terms of achievement, and you can make a case for Diego Costa, Reus and, if we’re to open the category out beyond goalscorers, most of the Bayern team (particularly Lahm) to boot.
None of the above is intended to disparage Suarez. I just don’t think you can lay claim to being the best player in the world without turning in world class performances in some really big games. If you’ve not played in many really big games then that tells its own story.
From the BBC’s Moyeswatch page:
“12:05
BBC Radio Manchester’s Big Red Wednesday: Speaking on @bbcradiomanc Clayton Blackmore says Manchester United should give Ryan Giggs the manager’s job on a permanent basis.”
Give it to Giggsy permanently. Please, please, please. With only a bit of luck, he’ll half bankrupt the Glazers as well as giving us a good laugh on the field next season.
I reckon Giggsy’s “bring your wife to training” day initiative will be a roaring success.
N7, I’m sure it will. It will also be used as a plot to lure John Terry to ManU.
pangloss
.
i’ve everything crossed
for
joe kinnear
.
🙂
stephen,
I don’t normally respond to abuse but I’ll make an exception for you.
Nowhere did I mention that I still have faith in Arsene Wenger. If I do, that is my right and my business. Maybe insanity is indeed my shield, but I have not felt the need to be sectioned.
There has been plenty of criticism of the manager and the club in this very bar. Most people manage to do that constructively and without resorting to abuse.
A pity that you are clearly not capable of joining in.
Your loss, pal.
or
indeed
roy kinnear
god rest him
Bath,
Further to your @162, it may depend to a large extent what AW has promised to the likes of Ozil and those who have just extended contracts.
Contrary to the belief of some, there are players who actually respect the man for what he has done for them and continues to offer. Ozil, The Ox, Kos, probably BFG, Gibbs, Szczesny to name but a few.
I don’t believe AW would do as Ferguson did to van Persie – promise to be there for the longer haul and disappear after a year.
The thing that worries me is who is there at Arsenal who could make the decision on who should replace AW if he decides to go ?
Would they, for example, take van Gaal just because he’s available ?
Gawd save us !
cba
i Hear
that ‘Arry
is available
.
Rosie should
fit right in
to the kennels
up in Carrington
Apologies for the temporary infestation. The scum has returned to the bottom of the pond.
DB10: Moyes’s contract reportedly says he will get only one-year’s pay after being sacked, having failed to qualify for the CL.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/david-moyes-to-be-sacked-manager-waits-for-ruthless-sacking-but-manchester-uniteds-decision-was-made-in-february-9273567.html
Explains why Glazers waited until now as CL qualification only becaue mathematically for Utd this past weekend.
Arry to united pls, giggs training seasons will be fun, players practising, giggs practising with someone else somewhere else, epic fun.
Seriously blaming moyes was ridiculous, fergie left a sinking ship and moyes was supposed to be jack sparrow??? I mean really, he sunk the ship without a trace and i am so happy to see united suffer and may it long continue.
Arsenal and its fans need to understand that without proper planning we cannot simply keep saying Wenger out, the great man deserves far more respect than he gets nowadays and hopefully common sense will prevail.
UCL semis tonight, come on athletico rub it up his ass to that little pony shit.
Bye bye Moyes.
It was fun while it lasted, thanks for the laughter.
pangloss
.
deep joy
N7,
I think Suarez has single handedly dragged one of the poorest Liverpool teams that we’ve ever seen to the cusp of winning their 1st league title in 24 years. Its not just the goals he scores, or the assists he provides, but the sheer work ethic he brings to the overall team effort, as well as the multitude of free kicks and Penalties that he has earned. Steve G has converted 10 penalties so far this season. This is the second highest ever in one season in the PL and has largely resurrected his career. Would Stevie or Sturridge be nominated as PFA players of the year were it not for Suarez? If Suarez had taken just one of those penalties he would by now have equalled the PL all time goalscoring record of 31. He also makes others like Sterling and Henderson look like top players also. And remember, all this while missing their primary back 4 for most of the season.
He has done as much and more with Liverpool as he could possibly have done and if they go on to win the league – it will be the sporting story of the year without any doubt imo. While Messi is arguably the best player I’ve ever seen, his influence is not as it once was in a declining Barca side. I would argue that what Suarez has achieved with ‘Pool this season is a relatively greater achievement than anything Ronaldo has done at Manu or Real given the players, money and management those two teams have at their disposal by comparison. While I rate Robben and Reus, neither deserve to be mentioned in the same breath Suarez.
My own feeling is that Real will break the transfer record to bring him to Madrid in the summer. And even with 100m or so in the kitty, Liverpool won’t be able to buy a player to replace him.
Vinay: it also shows that managing a Top Four club is a different kettle of fish to managing any other Premiership club.
This anecdote from a ManU blogger says it all:
In David Moyes early tenure as United manager, United were in Sydney for a pre-season match. Moyes took the United players out for a stroll along Campbell Parade on Bondi Beach. He had done a similar thing with his Everton squad in 2010 and nobody had batted an eyelid. He did the same thing with his United squad last July and it was like The Beatles in the USA in 1964. Moyes had no idea of the magnitude of the job he’d taken on.
@ Joe
None of the stuff you mention in your post qualifies Suarez as the best player in the world.
Shearer achieved almost exactly the same in 95, and he wasn’t the best player on the planet either. Kevin Phillips scored 30 league goals in 99/00 – he wasn’t in the top thirty players on earth at the time. Andy Cole struck 34 while at Newcastle – ditto.
I totally agree that Suarez is the best player in England. Next season, he may prove himself to be among the very best on the planet.
For now, that title is held by the players who prove themselves at the absolute top of the game – in fixtures like the ones being played out tonight and tomorrow night.
I think it’s hard to make a claim for a player who hasn’t played in the champs league this season, hasn’t had an international tournament in which to assert himself and has scored a single solitary goal against the other clubs in the top four.
Again, none of this takes away from Suarez – superb player, and I agree Liverpool wouldn’t be able to replace him if he left.
I just think that “best player in the world” is a very, very high bar indeed, and Suarez achievements – great as they are – do not merit that accolade.
Bye Bye Moyes 🙂
I honestly didn’t think it was going to happen but hey as sweet as it tastes I think MU fans are in for even more misery in the coming months or seasons.
I’ll take the Manure job. I’ve won lots of Subbuteo games.
They have to wear red shirts with white sleeves and move to London though.
Too late Bath.
Ryan has got the Gig(gs), together with Nicky, they are going to be the Butt of our jokes. 😉
Keeping the seat warm for van Gaal, perhaps?
arthur
long may their misery
continue
and
compound
N7,
Of course nothing I say will qualify LS as the best player in the world. That is a subjective opinion and objectively hard to qualify whether you put a case forward for Suarez, Messi or Ronaldo. I just feel that of those 3 players, Suarez has been the most impressive so far this season.
I think Ronaldo and Messi would each be breaking 100m to buy. And I now think Suarez falls into that category too. But I can’t think of any other player who falls into that bracket. Certainly not Reus, Robben or Costa. Truth told, while they’re 3 seriously good players, I’d still prefer to have Ozil ahead of any of them. Again thats just a matter of personal preference.
Its not Suarez fault that Liverpool haven’t been playing in Europe so its impossible to judge him in the context of matches like tonight but I’ll be very keen to see how Uruguay fare in the WC.
Nice review Holic & congratulations on landing your bets 🙂
Nothing more to add about our recent win other than our 2nd goal was something else in every stage, the ball to the pre-assister, the pre-assist, the assist & the finish.
As hilarious as Moyes getting the sack is, you’d think the United board would have the collective sense to wait until the end of the season, imo it’s unlikely that they’ll overhaul Sp*rs for 6th spot being 6 points behind, regardless of having a game extra to play. The whole situation lacks class, although since it is that club, I’m not too surprised.
@Joe
If you give credit to Suarez for Liverpool (possibly) winning the title, then surely it IS at least partly his fault that they’re not in the champs league this season? It’s certainly his fault he doesn’t play for a club in the competition.
If he has a stellar world cup then it may change the picture, but let me put it this way – if you asked a thousand fans based outside England whether they would swap Ronaldo or Messi for Suarez I think you’d see an extremely small number who’d take you up on that deal.
Ronaldo has 45 goals this season, 14 of them in the Champs League, where he’s the tournament’s leading scorer. He has one less league goal than Suarez, and 16 more cup goals. I don’t like the fella, but he’s a better player than the toothy one.
Messi is on 39 goals for the season. He’s been nowhere near his best, and is being badly mismanaged, but he still has only four less league goals than Suarez (having played three less games), and has scored in nearly every big game he’s played in. He has 5 champs league goals. Bad season, but still a better player than Suarez.
Reus helped his team with the Bundesliga, and took his side to the Champs League final. He’s a superb player, at least the equal of Suarez. A couple of weeks ago he banged two goals past Real Madrid, then stuck another past Bayern for good measure. And he’s a winger.
Diego Costa has 35 goals for the season. Three league goals less than Suarez, but 7 in the Champs League, where his team have been the surprise hit of the tournament. If they make the Champs League final and win the league then I don’t see how you can possibly say that Suarez has been better than him.
We’ll see next season how Suarez gets on in the big games. If he takes Liverpool to the Champions League final then he’ll have made a real impact on the global scale, and you may find a few who’d contemplate swapping Messi for him.
Until then, I’ll ask you this: when was the last time the best player in the world played for a team who weren’t in the Champions League?
The Dutch press seem to think so Bath.
——
Interesting debate between N7 and Joe.
I see merit in both sides of the coin, not too sure if this has been the worst Liverpool side to win the title though, some of their players have done extreamly well, but I’d give just as much credit, probably more, to Rodgers as Suarez for that.
Easily the best player in the PL this term, I’d personally put him in the top three in Europe. I think the International achievements is a moot point, because no International team has won anything yet, Ronaldo single handedly got Portugal through a play off into the finals, Suarez’ U R Gay also needed a play off to reach the finals. Madrid won their FA Cup equivelent and are in the CL semis. L’pool haven’t won anything (yet)
Ofcourse choosing the best is subjective, but I believe the people with the power to decide such matters (officialy) would not consider Suarez due to Liverpool not being in the CL or the Yourhopless League.
What H2H said.
In any case,
1) the Mugsmashers would not be where they are if they were in the ECL and had not had an injury-free season.
2) Suarez will certainly be in the ECL next season most probably playing for Real Madrid.
Wind.
I actually think it was a very good decision, waiting until the end of the season would of been foolish, and if anything it really should of happened a few weeks ago.
Moyes was out of his depth and showed no signs of being able to turn it around. The board need to get a big fish in now, someone with a bit of credability. By all accounts they want to get their transfer business done quickly (take note please Ivan) and without the lure of the CL they are going to need someone with a decent pedigree to attract the better players, could you really see any of those being interested to go to a team run by Moyes?
Good points @182, H2H – Ivan get yer skates on.
Another factor in the timing is that they can now pay severance of 1 year rather than 5 because of his failure to deliver ECL.
Money talks for the Glazers – the other reason for lack of patience. This season has already hammered the share price and resale value.
Well, well, well?
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20140422/wenger-diaby-is-fit-and-ready-to-play
🙂
Who’da thunk it, H?
How about Manchealster Utd?
Once Glazers tire off this football thingy with no manager they appoint seem to be able to bring them back to CL — Wenger, Guardiola, Ancelotti et al. scoffing their offers — and they put the club on market, Jose convinces Roman it would be a good idea to own two clubs in the PL just to improve the chance of winning it every year. And though Roman finds a couple of stooges to shadow for him and to pretend to buy Man U with his money, once the deal is done some pesky journalist in Guardian threatens to get to the bottom of the story. To avoid having to pay the footballing governing bodies huge amounts of money in fines and bribes, the two clubs decide to merge.
Manchealster Utd. Managed by Jose Mourinho.
Can the beautiful game get anymore beautiful?
Goonertown,
Great news. It’s a long shot but if Diaby can stay fit we have one hell of a player back in the squad. A long term fully fit Diaby would be worth probably £30+ million in the transfer market.
Everton News:
Mirallas out for the season. Every little helps. 😉
GT @ 184: As absurd the world is, and as random and closure-less life’s vicissitudes are, I think there is some kind of a great finality at wait for Diaby’s heroic Sisyphean struggles. Something along the lines of one single uninterrupted season where his dazzling form is key to Arsenal’s treble winning run or something like that. At the end of that a successful international campaign for France.
It is bound to happen.
N7,
Your spot on, Ronaldo & Messi are largely regarded as the best two players in the world, and given the consistent level that both players have played to, it would be hard for followers of either to take Suarez in exchange. And I’m not suggesting they would. But I do think, that Suarez form this season has catapulted him into that same realm and his overall contribution to Liverpool has been relatively greater than either Ronaldo or Messi when you consider the quality of players they have beside them, the spending power of both the spanish clubs and the overall lack of competitiveness of the Spanish league visa v the PL. I just think on a relative basis, what Suarez may achieve with ‘Pool would be far more impressive
By far the most apt comparison in terms of goals scored would be to compare Ronaldo at Manu to Suarez this season. In 2007/8 Ronaldo hit 31 PL goals. Suarez is on the cusp of equalling that and possibly eclipsing it. Furthermore, Suarez took no penalties despite winning a stack of them.
Similarly, the german league is largely comprised of one team this season (Bayern are 17 points clear) and maybe two teams in previous years. I just feel that Reus is not in the same class whatsoever as the aforementioned 3.
And neither is Costa. And I say that as someone who thinks Atletico will win the CL and as someone who has said so for some time now, but it’s more down to their collective team work and overall balance between attack and defence. Falcao was a better player than Costa and they sold him. So too was Aguero. And Costa will follow suit in the summer. They’re a selling club and they’re cash strapped. But Simeone has done a magnificent job. I really think they’ll win the CL this year and I think it’ll be great for the competition.
NEWS : Everton forward Kevin Mirallas will miss the remaining three games of the season with a groin injury.
Oops sorry! Trev preempted me 🙂
I must say that I will miss the melodramatic and tragicomic aspects of watching Manchester United losing repeatedly at Old Toilet while the camera shows a grimacing David Moyes pacing the sidelines, and then the camera cuts to a shot of “The Chosen One” banner before another cut to a grimacing and brooding Sir Alex Ferguson, the creator of the Moyes Monster, in the stands. Nary a day has gone by when the thought of those scenes hasn’t warmed the cockles of my heart.
@Joe
At this stage, I dunno which of us is right, but I’ve certainly enjoyed discussing it with you!
For what it’s worth, if you offered me each of the players we’re talking about as potential Arsenal signings I’d take Messi first, then Ronaldo (if we’re talking pure football ability – can’t stand the bloke), then Reus, then Suarez, then Costa.
Costa’s stats stack up well, but I don’t think he’ll be a goal a game striker in the Premier League. Could be wrong. Hope I’m right.
Too right cba!
Trev and BB that is good news indeed too!
I really can’t believe Diaby is back to full training, I only hope he can make those few games.
It’ll be a start for sure!
*makes a great little run dodging those foul orcs from left to right…with his last breath he passes the ball forward……
* poor first touch but fortunately the defender is Shawcross who falls flat on his arse
* takes ball round the keeper and pops one into the middle …
Bang
Hammers home and falls over – forgets he only has one leg. 😉
Well in N7 – thought only Arthur and I were at the races.
Get in there!
That one’s for Moyesy. Never forget what he’s done for us all.
Damn – beaten to it by a two-legged N7. Well in, sir. 😉
My Tabs psn. Tho’. 😉
LMAO
Great news about Diaby – must see if I can find a stream for tonight.
H2H @ 182, fair points good sir, hadn’t considered the transfer repercussions for him remaining till that point, especially with his spectatular failures in the summer transfer windows. With bath weighing in @ 183 with the correct fact that the Glazer board were waiting to see whether he would fail to land CL qualification before sacking him, thus saving them 4 years worth of potential severance pay, I cede to you in this discussion 😉
Well in N7 for the century, but the glory that you gained for scoring pales in comparison to what Trev gained for trying to score & failing 😛
Well in N7.
Trev has scored more regularly with one leg and a crutch than he did with two. Will the strike rate drop off when he’s skipping around on his new bionic leg?
Nice one Wind.
Well iN7.
Hehs @ Trev & Bath.
Mirallas out for the Toffees is quite a blow for them.
On a day when accountability and commonsense won out at Old Trafford, the Diaby news is a damning example of the blind loyalty and zero accountability now in operation at our football club. Maybe some fans will get off on the human side to the story. Not me. And no I dont feel sorry for him when he earns £ 2.5 mill a year. He can’t even fill the DM role we’re so obviously short in for 2014/2015 and where we got bossed so obviously by the likes of Matic, Luiz, Toure, Gerard, even MacCarthy. Does anybody out there really see us chasing – and winning the chase for – a WC DM as well as a striker and a CB ??
@sc
Hello there, you little ray of sunshine.
Heh @ 211
Just so I’m clear, is the “Diaby news” that he’s fit again? Or did I miss something? Has he killed a bunch of kids or something like that?
Very hard to tell where I should be looking for the “damning example of the blind loyalty and zero accountability now in operation at our football club”.
Diaby. I’ve nothing against the man. He often played well, back when … hmmm… I don’t recall exactly.
Just watched AW on the club website. Diaby available for selection. Now, I’m no premier league manager, but, he hasn’t played in a match for over a year. Arsenal is in a must-win-every-match white-knuckle stranglehold. And the team chemistry with Ramsay Ozil and Polid and HFB and Cazoral just finally coming to resemble something it coulda/shoulda/woulda.
Yes, why not bring back a guy who hasn’t had a single minute of football for over 12 months. Lacking match fitness. Decision making … er, rusty to say the least.
Like Diaby, or not – from a team standpoint that strikes me a bloody foolish.
Manure whistling in the dark:
“Reports of our demise have been greatly exaggerated,” one club source told BBC Sport.
@joe am with N7 in regards to the debate you guys are having. There is no way I will compare Suarez to any of those guys, irrespective of what he has done this season, and boy has he been good or what. But those two have been performing consistently on the world stage for the past 10 yrs or so. If and when Suarez plays like he did this year for the next 5 yrs in both CL, whatever league he ends up with and win a couple of championships then we can start that conversation. But for right now I beg to differ, I see where you are coming from but I don’t see anyone touching those two any time soon. And lastly even with the amount of games they play, they are so durable, rarely gets injured. Wish I can have one of them in my team.
@214 – “Diaby available for selection” is exactly what he has said, not “I am going to play Diaby in our last 3 “must-win” games. He has plenty players available whom he has not risked. However the news that Diaby is playing for the under-21s and if he comes through that “may be available” for selection for the first team is substantial progress for Diaby and worthy of celebration.
Excellent point bath.
I feel the Diaby assertions are solely to try and help the lad win a place on the French side for the WC. Think it would be unlike Wenger to bring a player back at this juncture given the importance of the next 3 games. We would usually tell him to concentrate on being match fit for next season.
Although, the schedule is, for once, working in our favour:
Our fixtures are :
Newcastle (H) on 28th
WBA (H) on 4th
Norwich (a) on 11th.
Evertons are:
Southampton (A) on 26th.
Citeh (H) on 3rd
Hull (A) 11th
We have an easier run in, our next two fixtures are at home and because those games take place later, we have an advantage of seeing exactly what we need to do in order to secure qualification.
In Spain they have a lot of colorful words for unpleasant and despicable persons but puto pretty much covers it for Mourinho, and I expect they may call him that once or twice during tonight’s game. He is Real’s old manager of course but I’m trusting the Atletico fans to know a puto when they see one.
The alternative approach for Wenger regarding Diaby would be to …shut the fu*k up. Did you ever find Ferguson waxing on about Owen Hargreaves’s latest little effort to climb up like a newborn springtime lamb. No u fu*king did not. The reason I mention is it that we all know what comes next, ie, “like a new signing”, circa early to mid August. 31 games in 4 years, 133 in 11 years, give me strength…. It’s not funny when we already have to carry 5 or 6 who will always get injured. Jesus wake up and see how this is why we end up with injury problems, not rocket science and probably nothing to with physios, medical staff or “over-playing”. Probably is off eating children during the day anyway…there’s only so much car/clothes buying and X-box a young lad (well, er, 27) can put up with.
@221
Ahem…
http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/uk_national_sport/4625838.Ferguson_relishing_Hargreaves_return/?ref=rss
“FERGUSON RELISHING HARGREAVES RETURN”
“He’s a versatile player who can perform in so many positions, so he could be a very important player for us”.
Dear Village of SC
Please come and reclaim your idiot.
In fairness though, I can see why you’re furious.
Just imagine a manager being happy to see a player return to fitness. God, it makes the blood boil.
Another step on this once-great club’s slow and tortured descent into the very bowels of hell.
heh @223 & 224.
Pissing myself with mirth.
And I thought Texas was the only place missing their idiots.
Anyone slag Arsenal or AW because a talented footballer has clawed his way back onto the pitch can kindly fuck off to Chelski.
You’re a naughty little Googler (Gooner Googler!?) N7 @ 222, arent you ?!?? You skipped forward to about page 7, conveniently ignoring all the stuff in Fergie’s book ; “Having spent £17m on Hargreaves, Ferguson wrote in his book: “When I signed him there was something about him I didn’t like. It turned out to be a disaster.” Look lads, it’s ok, I too was an AKB for many, many years….
In case anyone needs directions to Chelsea, here’s an interactive map….
http://i.imgur.com/KcXaXmE.gif
@227
Is your argument here that Ferguson made a disastrous, injury-riven shocker of a signing for more than Wenger has ever paid for any player, bar Ozil?
Because if it is then I for one am bang on board with you.
Brilliant riposte, not. Eh, no, it was you that implied Fergie used to rave about Hargreaves.
sc. Changing the facts. The last refuge of the deluded.
@230 I think you suggested Ferguson had never been heard bigging up one of Hargreave’s returns. He clearly did.
I’m preparing a flow chart of this discussion. Will be about twenty minutes as it takes longer doing it in crayon and finger paints.
Margaret Thatcher once described getting rebuked by Sir Geoffrey Howe as like being “savaged by a dead sheep”. A whole flock in this case.
Ah, but did Margaret Thatcher ever pen a line as scintillatingly poetic as “Brilliant riposte, not”?
sc, easy. If you shake the tree don’t be surprised if some apples fall on your nut.
Let’s keep it respectful please all. It’s what you do best.
Thank you.
I can see the Lady’s not for turning 235…we’ll agree to differ, the top story on http://www.arsenal.com will have the football world trmebling with fear. You don’t think the way Wenger presents this news tells you anything about the man, his obsessions and his modus operandi, no ?
When did supporting the club and players mean you must be an AKB?
Is it not possible to support a player coming back from injury and not be an AKB?
We all realize he is not infallible and has made mistakes, some even glaring but no need to jump down his throat every time he makes a statement. He gets a lot more correct than people give him credit for.
sry guv, hadn’t seen the yellow card, wouldn’t have submitted otherwise. fair comment. keep up the good work. only dug in a bit, cos they ganged up on me…sniffle, sniffle !
Just so there’s no mistakes, let’s not overlook the fact that I’m neither sc nor do I agree with his/her subjective prattle above, which is surely intended only as a wind up.
Dr. Sleep, I assume that your comment is not directed at myself, but instead at the philistine amongst us.
I’ve seen a lot worse sc.
Thanks.
Not you Homer.
twas not cuntcher
twas healey
sc
Adrian Chiles
Did I hear him correctly?
Did he really say “the Athletico fans have just been singing something uncomplimenary about Jose Mourinho but I don’t know what it is because I dont speak Spanish”?
Did he really say that?
He did. Maureen’s adoring media reception has evaporated.
Even Adrian knows Spanish cuss words.
If you need help Dr Z I speak Texican.
Cech out injured… looks like pools title this year.
dr. sleep, did you used to live in the northern parts of our fair hahafornia?
if so, we need to talk about maggie mcgarry’s for the cup final.
Oh. Yes Scruz. I will start discussing it with the management. Only big problem is I am coaching Little poldi’s game that day.
Hope things are going well for you.
I haven’t been in the bar near as frequently as I should.
sc.
I might not of phrased it quite like you did, however I do understand where you are coming from. This may not be a popular view, but like you, I’ve long grown tired of the situation. I understand that there is very little the poor chap can do about it, and seeing that he was injured while in our service his contract (wages) must be honoured.
However, I believe the Diaby project has run it’s course, surely it would be better to just pay up and cut our losses. I’d love nothing more then to be proved wrong on this one, but I really can’t see him coming back to realise the potential he had, but as this isn’t the first year I’ve posted this it just seems all the more unlikely that he’ll ever be fit for more then one or two matches every half season.
The position he plays in is one we are in desperate need of another player, but I fear that as long as he is at the Grove Wenger will not fill this vacant position. Maybe this year he wasn’t missed as much as in the last few seasons, but I still feel that he takes up a squad place that could be given to someone else.
Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh.
cool, dr.s. like the new moniker. my guess is your round trip is too long a duration to get there and back again for little lulu, though that depends on the start time. i’m discussing it with my lovely, too, thinking she’d like to spend a few hours in the morning wandering around the shops without me (hoping!).
It hasn’t been officially confirmed as far as I know, but many sources claim that Diaby has refused to receive any wages from the club while he was in rehab for his latest injury. That may be worth remembering before firing up the chainsaw.
Lars @252
Didn’t know that. Like the fella even more.
Look at the scar on the left knee.
I respect his commitment, keeping up the battle against his sequential injuries.
All in the line of duty.
I really hope he has a great season next season, dancing through the midfield and scoring goals – a great alternate to Rambo.
Still need the big strong DMFer though.
0-0 – that’s 49 minutes of my life I won’t get back
Anyone seen how Maureen has lined up against Atletico?
Back Four – the usual suspects
5-man Defensive midfield – Ramires, Luiz, Mikel, Fats and Willian
1 forward – The £50 million man
While I was watching the Fox stream, a news item came along the bottom saying, “Spurs coach Gregg Popovich voted top coach for 3rd time.” Since I don’t have a clue about the Spuds coaching staff, I thought it must be a joke.
American gooners will no doubt know who the news item was about.
Simeone is fairly engaged in this match.
Aprt from the defensive line-up, they are faking all over the pitch, putting in niggling fouls, holding – the full monty.
The joke about Cech going off is that it was because a Chav pushed an Atletico player who went flying in to Cech and upended him in mid-air.
Typical Chelsea Moureen tactics nothing else
Sadly it really looks like the Chavs are capable of winning this SF.
A blow for human decency!
They made this game very boring
Please don’t even think that, Bath.
I won’t view their season a success until they are eliminated.
From the planet
Now John Terry is out too! Ah self destructing 😀
Despicable bunch. The epitome of their manager.
Identical game to the one at the Grove just park the bus!
They just pulled the ‘Neutralise Arsenal’ page from Jose’s manual.
same problem we’ve seen all season – not enough pace in this team.
what do you figure, six minutes of stoppage, with all the handbags and time wasting?
five, then. come on atletico!
can’t see Atletico scoring against Chav defence over 180 mins. They need to hope for pens to do the decent thing.
yeah, they haven’t offered anything but poorly executed bicycle kicks and headers.
and their crosses SUCK.
But if Chelsea want to win it, they’re going to have to come out and play.
Chelsea fans celebrating like they’ve won.
Very appropriate that Chelsea were in black – in mourning for football.
I don’t think they will come out and play though. Maureen will play exactly the same game and go for breakaways, set-pieces and dives in the box.
This was suppose to be CL Mourinho you pick!
Oops pick ha ha You pick!
That’s ight, Athu!
My S5 is playing up mate sorry
Mourinho you Prick!
Heh @ Bath.
Let’s turn to something interesting.
Everton now have Pienaar, Mirallas and Distin out for the rest of the season, Jagielka still waiting to come back after a long absence and Barry not able to play against Citeh. Silva will be missing for Citeh, maybe Aguero too, but they have such a big squad they should be able to handle it.
Southampton’s season is over – they can’t get a Europa place, so Everton must be favourites for 3 points there.
Boring Chelsfield yet the media will say important draw bla bla bla
See she does it again
Chubby Childe called them out over time wasting at least. If he thought he would get away with it, he would have called them boring cunts for sure.
Stupid new phone
Ok got the grips of it now it’s the dictionary kicking in
Boring Chelski
dk: sadly I agree that a Southampton win on Saturday (or is it Sunday? Can’t remember) would be quite a surprise. They seem to have switched off now.
Also, don’t forget that City will be without Yaya Toure as well.
Dk- several of the Southampton team want to make a point to Roy Hodgson. I’d take a draw there.
This Atletico side were fundamentally uninspiring. They lacked creativity , pace and some of their first touches were long passes. Surely they won’t finish above Real and Barca. You have to hand it to Mourinho. He is probably the most boring coach in the world. His teams take all the joy out of football. I hope the Mugsmashers annihilate them. They will certainly play at about three times the speed Atletico did tonight. It would be hard to overstate how boring I thought that game was.
That was why United’s old guard didn’t want Mourinho. I can see their point .
Ttg:
Atletico might have lacked end product but they played Chelsea off the field and their work rate and closing down of space was a joy to watch. I would still be very bullish about their chances in London. Chelsea created nothing and were rarely allowed out of their half for the entire game. They completely deserved to beat Barca in the quarters and are rightfully top of the Spanish league. I think you underestimate them.
Joe
I agree with you on this one
Atletico in the driver’s seat of the parked bus. The moaner is out of ideas.
Texted my little brother to mourn the passing of Moyes and the sheer delight he had gifted us for the past 10 months, then made some garbled reference to “hope they don’t get Klopp”. The young man’s response:
“In fairness, Wenger’s far from finished yet mate.”
Yes indeed. Wise beyond his years is young billy brother. The force is strong in him.
We will have a bit of whatever c**t they put up there are spread them all over the park. We are The Arsenal.
(FWIW, for sheer comedy value, would love to see Mourinho scurry off up there.)
Chavs going out 1-1 next leg. NAP. (Thank me later;)
Mirallas, Cech, Distin, Terry, Toure YaYa, Jagielka, et al, all out for the season …..
Third is on !!! 😉
Plays the ball out wide left and sets off, on a single crutch, through the middle.
Overtakes Giroud on the edge of the area ….
Diego Costa, after nearly full two years of watching him play, I still can’t understand all the noise about him. Average technique, average pace, average shoot. All that makes him an average player that bases him game mainly on diving, faking and provocations. One hit wonder.
His goal ratio is decent because he shoots penalties he faked and 99% of his other goals are from prime positions against the mighty Primera defenders, so mighty that Carlos Vela is scoring pr assisting for fun almost every game.
One can only hope that Chelsea are mad enough to splash 50m+ of their budget on him and sell Lukaku to us.
Somewhat overhits his pass to Trev.
Smashes John Terry in the face with his crutch and dives headling – ok, falls over again – to get a head to the ball ……
Boom
297 – not seen him this season, but looked a donkey the 3/4 times I watched them last year. Got that great youtube vid of him snotting on Ramos/Pepe on his side tho…
Gets up, stumbles, accidentally jabs Diaby in the groin with his crutch, putting the poor lad out for the rest of the season, but smashes the ball home for a glorious and justified self assisted strike.
Yellow card happily accepted. 😉
Nice assist Trev 🙂
* realises they have already scored and kicked off again, so trudges off *
* thanks bt8b on the way *
Good try, Trev. Shame about the season-ending injury. Night all.
COYG
I assume Morewhinwio can’t recall Courtois to play for the chavs in the second leg? Or would a player on loan be eligible even though he’s played in the comp for another club?
Either way it looks like the chavs could be finalists. And that gives us further (albeit remote) hope we might make 3rd.
Öskar
Hummels has played a lot at DMF, N7 (*138), including for Germany in past years. He still enjoys going forward, is quick and a very tough tackler, all qualities which suggest he’d be the perfect DMF now, as well as great cover for our existing CDs.
Öskar
As for Özil, N7, he gave away the ball or had it tackled off him in three of every four touches he had in the game. Yes, he also executed a couple of exquisite through passes but overall he was as unreliable as he was in games leading up to his injury. The revival in our midfield threat is almost exclusively due to Rambo’s return.
I don’t doubt Özil has quality, but the more I see of him the less I see him as an Arsenal-type player. Too lazy, too gutless, too often, imo. Unless AW can re-motivate him somehow I can see him moving on.
Öskar
DKG at 256 – that reference was to National Basketball Association team San Antonio Spurs…but, alas, spurs are spurs, and I feel the same about them as I feel about them lot from the swamp.
Regarding the Diaby discussion – first of all, and due respect to you H2H, I think folks who don’t have some sense of sympathy and respect for the young man should re-examine the size of their hearts. Here is a young man, even more so if Lars’ information is credible, who has been mangled on the pitch and doggedly continued the long slog to get back to performing at a top level. Kudos to him. He has done everything the boss has asked of him. I reckon many forget his dominant performance in midfield against them lot and also, I recall, against Blackburn. At his best, he can be that strong, silky, midfield generalissimo we all agree the team needs.
I, too, understand the his frailty and, for that reason, would not want to rely on him like a new signing, but he surely could do a job for us in midfield. He has been loyal to us as we have to him. Surely, we can be happy for one of (apparently) the good guys in top-flight football.
Re – Chel$ki: I am fearful these scummy, mangy bastards could win it all again in Europe…lord, please not.\
What are odds on us snatching 3rd? Win the next match.
BMBD
Perhaps I should modify the anti-Özil sentiments in my last a little. I think he is a very gifted player and I hope sincerely that he finds a way to fit in at the Ems. If he could just generate a bit more enthusiasm and look as if he enjoys the game he really could be anything.
Öskar
Oskar, meethinks your heart just grew a couple of sizes there with that revised comment… 😛
Well done.
BMBD
Oskar, I struggle to understand your numbers when every other site I’ve seen speaks of a completion percentage of 85-90% for özil vs hull.
Scruz – did NorCal change his nom de plume?
BMBD
They. Are. Doomed.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/22/alex-ferguson-manchester-united-manager
Lonestar,
It is I, or it is me.
Hope things are going well with you and your family.
All is well here in NorCal.
Ah…to sleep, perchance to dream.
The family is going well. Thanks for asking. Work has picked up, so it’s another late night at the office.
How are your kin? Good to hear from you.
BMBD
All is well. We were all just down in Austin last week. We took my daughter to look at UT and spent spring break down there. Had a good time. I do like Austin. Lots of memories.
Cheers mate. Don’t let work grind you down. I have to tell myself that quit often. 😉
Haha. Freudian typing.
Quit= quite or fuck it. 😉
Ah, you were down in ATX last week…THAT explains the strange disturbance in the force I felt back then 😉
BMBD
Every other site, scruz? Such as?
Öskar
Oskar, as scruz said, please look at Ozil’s stats for us:
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/13756/
Pass success rate of of 87.6% in PL with 2.7 key passes per match. He has got 5 goals and 10 assist in his first season with us in 30(1) matches.
His pass completion and key pass statistics are better than that of : Eden Hazard, Rooney, Gerrard but marginally inferior (pass success rate) compared to Mata who played merely 1/3rd of the games Ozil played.
You talk about laziness but in many matches he has been in the top 3-4 of our team’s distance covered list, most notably in that home game against Bayern where he was third overall after Flamini and Wilshere.
I know what you observe is what you observe, and your opinions are your opinions, but statistically speaking this picture of “lazy and missing passes” player doesn’t really tally.
He hasn’t been as influential as many would have expected (though I maintain he has been more influential than he has been given credit for ), but he has been rather quietly impressive and influential in is his first season, and I think he would be a phenomenal player for us. If we don’t chase him away before that, of course. Any team in the world, including Real Madrid themselves, would be glad to have him.
Oskar @ 308
Hummels played def mid for Germany in an U21 tournament many years ago. I don’t think I’ve seen him there any time lately.
As for the Ozil stuff, I think you are seeing what you want to see. He was a standout performer vs Hull and the suggestion that he lost the ball three out of every four times he received it is farcical.
If you need more detail, refer to Dr F’s excellent post above.
To the person posting as ‘sc’. At least get your facts regarding politics. The ‘dead sheep’ quote is copyright one Denis ‘eyebrows’ Healey. Geoffrey Howe himself once destroyed Thatcher with his own ‘opening batsman’ speech which preceded her inglorious resignation by only a few days.
I would politely suggest your knowledge of political invective is on a level with your knowledge of how to manage a modern football club. Full of bluster and bravado but not that great.
Re: Ozil – Did best part of 10 years as a junior gunner sat row 1 of the east stand in the family enclosure. I spent a full year age 14, maybe 15, screaming “get stuck in bobby!!!” at Robert Pires. He knows though.
I was questioning Özil’s contribution in the Hull game specifically, Dr F and that is what scruz was disputing. If you look at the stats YOU linked to you will find that Özil’s rating for the Hull match was the LOWEST for any Arsenal player who started the game. I saw him the same way, but practically everyone else here apparently watched him through rose-coloured specs. The 85% passing accuracy is misleading because it takes no account of the occasions he was disposed in tackles which, to me, amounts to the same thing as missing a pass.
If you disagree with the rating taking it up with ‘whoscored’.
Öskar
N7 … I quote from Wikipedia re Hummels… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mats_Hummels#Style_of_play
“Hummels is a right-footed left centre-back who enjoys coming out from defence to start attacks for his team. He is also capable of playing as a defensive midfielder, and was often used there when he played for the German national youth teams. Hummels has very good technique in the tackle and often out-muscles his opponents with his strength and height, as well as having the pace to catch up with fast opponents and win the ball back. His reading of the game is one of his main strengths, often frustrating his opponents with his well-timed interceptions and long passing capability.”
That, plus watching him in recent games where I noted him coming forward on occasions, suggests he would be an ideal dual-purpose signing able to play a strong DMF and provide cover for our CDs in the event of injury or suspension. Better by far than buying two players.
As for Özil being a standout performer against Hull, please see my previous and whoscored’s rating of him Arsenal’s least standout player.
Öskar
@Oskar
Whoscored stats are weighted such that a player who is subbed on or off is highly likely to get a lower score than one who completed ninety mins – have a look at how our subs scored.
It’s possible that everyone else has rose tinted glasses and only you can see the truth. It’s equally possible that you’ve made up your mind on Ozil and interpret his performance accordingly.
@Oskar
The Wikipedia entry confirms what I said above – he played DM for the German under 21s.
Not going to argue this one any further – he’s capable of playing DM in the same way that Vermaelen is, but I’d be stunned if we bought one of the best and most coveted centre backs in Europe and played him as a defensive midfielder.
Re; Diaby it would be good if he could resurrect himself in the same way as RVP and Rosicky!
🙂
I’d be astonished if we actually bought Hummels period, N7! But nice to contemplate. So when did TV ever play DMF? It’s a position I would like to have seen him tried in once the Per/Kos combo became established.
Perhaps scruz can provide another of the many links he claims rated Özil highly in the Hull game.
Öskar
TV5 played there a couple of times early in his career.
Personally, I want us to go out and buy a mobile, specialist DM who knows how to protect the front of the defence. Bender would be ideal, and I would take Schneiderlin at the right price. We don’t need to over elaborate, just fill the obvious gaps in the squad quickly and efficiently.
If a big name is available then great. If not, don’t hang about waiting for one – get what we need.
Just think – only a few more weeks and we can spend the whole summer speculating about this stuff! 🙂
Checking in for a swift ‘arf on the way to work. Delighted to see my Diaby comments triggered some reaction. I think it shows there is an issue, even for those who jump to defend the situation (note, I say the situation, not the player). It also shows that this is a bar you can walk into and have a good chat without being ignored. Kudos. H2H hit the nail, he takes up a squad number year in year out. Which is, btw, very different to Hargreaves being slotted in at #25 for one preliminary CL squad for Man U (did he play? I dunno, dont care). I was also reacting to other very strange comments before me ; that Diaby could be worth 30 mill, that Wenger made the announcement because France were maybe going to pick him for the WC (yea…right). It’s excessive loyalty born out of a desire to be proven right (notice he slipped in the “everybody said he would be out” bit, or suchlike). What’s it got to do with the run-in ? It’s lack of accountability because, unlike other clubs, there is nobody to say “hmm, not sure, let’s cut our losses here and move on”. Finally, he can never play DM because he is an offensive player, he’s not good in the air despite his height (except for OG v Man U !), his positional sense is as bad as Song’s so even if fit he can only complete with our 6 or 7 excellent attacking midfielders. The responses to me were about the player when I was clearly talking about the club/manager at least as much as the unfortunate player, if you can be unfortunate at 2.5 mill a year….and, no, I don’t belive he returns his wages each week. If he does, I sincerely hope it catches on for all injured players to reduce our massive, ridiculously “flat” wage structure and/or goes to Sport Relief perhaps and not to our/Stan’s dormant, bulging bank account. COYG.
The BBC match report of Arsenal v Hull mentions Özil only once, describing him as “a peripheral figure on his first start in six weeks” … that’s it, hardly the description of a standout performer in the game. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27007535
But I don’t expect his fan club to change their minds…
Öskar
Lol. The summer transfer speculation has already begun, N7. If it ever ceased, that is. 😉
Öskar
Mesut Ozil is the Dennis Bergkamp of this generation, enough said.
No, he will never be as good as that genius but he is so good that he can be compared to the greatest ever player at Arsenal, mesut is that good. This on and off criticism of him may just have him leaving us and it will be a regret we will never be able to come out off.
In terms of Suarez, even though he is the best in the league i agree that he is not among the best in the world. He needs to play in the ucl against say teams like chelshit who park a plane and then show if he can go through that brick wall. He needs to play against a bayern/real who will run his team ragged and he needs to win such games, only then can he be considered among the best. He definitely has it in him to do so but consistently, i doubt, thats what separates a ronaldo/messi from the rest. I think suarez and Aguero are the same, both excellent but not the best in the world.
Diaby back, well for how long? he is a good player no doubt but enough of the free lunches, if he cannot play consistently, he needs to leave.
For what it’s worth, here’s the only pass completion stat I’ve seen for Ozil vs Hull: 88%
http://ladyarse.co.uk/2014/04/the-match-hull-city-0-v-arsenal-3/
It’s not the only pass completion stat you’ve seen, N7, Dr F linked to the whoscored stats in #322. If you follow through the links to the passing stats for the whole team the Özil stats are not impressive. The 85% (of a low number) looks great, per se, but takes no account of giving the ball away without attempting to pass. His stats for telling passes (accurate long balls and accurate through balls) is practically zero.
Öskar
Goonertown – in the same way as RVP? I hope not…
@Oskar
I hadn’t explored the stats on whoscored, but now that I have – I assume you mean this page:
http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720844/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014-Hull-Arsenal
As in, the page that shows that Ozil had 85% pass completion vs Hull, higher than any other midfielder or forward on the pitch bar Ramsey (who had 87%) and a couple of late subs?
If your point is that he surrenders possession too easily then I don’t see how this information helps.
It’s all academic anyway – if you truly think that Ozil cannot be trusted to retain possession then you are in a tiny minority of football fans. He is quite probably our most reliable retainer of the ball since Fabregas.
There are things you can legitimately criticise him for, but this really isn’t one of them.
PR:
Disclaimer: remarks pertaining to past players relate to their service during their tenure with our great club! 🙂
As for key passes – here he is making what I would consider to be a very, very key pass to help open the scoring (52 seconds in):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIe3FTITjl0
Also worth noting that he was withdrawn after an hour, once the game was won and following which point the remaining players were able to stroke the ball around for fun.
Moments of class like the pass to open up the Hull defence for the first goal are what he’s all about. Top stuff.
GT
Ah, with the addition of the small print it all makes more sense!
Why not add Adepaymore to the list? 😀
Tell u what tho Goonertown, on slightly different tack, one of the best posts I’ve seen here in recent weeks (I think it may have been that Steve T chap, not sure) concerned RVP and his high-level discussions looking for assurances from Management/owners, during his last season. We all booed and hissed like mad at the time but remember at that stage we still didnt have any real financial clout. Yes the offer from Man U may have been too good anyway but top players NEED to know. Kos is making the same noises now, albeit a bit more quietly. I pray he stays as he is utterly fantastic and esp if Bac packs his bac-pack (dont get me started on that one).
Ozil wasn’t that great against Hull, not altogther surprising considering the fact that he was returning from injury, still, I thought he made some useful contributions, plus we looked more direct then we had done in a while when he was on the field.
As for the stats.
I browse them, but that’s about it.
I saw one last week which said that v West Ham Sanogo had a 100% pass rate. Make of that what you will. 😉
PR:
Sorry, the list is only narrowed down to those who were injury stricken whilst under our remit! Paymore doesn’t qualify for that list. He may make another list though. 🙂
They see what they want.
They see what they wannnttt….
No use debating,
They see what they want.
BMBD
sc – As a player I totally respect RVP. Noises behind the scenes indicate that he was a fiery character. A lot of good players have that passion.
Interesting article about El Ex.
http://www.thehardtackle.com/2014/fc-barcelona-what-does-the-future-hold-for-cesc-fabregas/?
I know he would have to compete with LJW and others for his place now but I would really hate to see him at any other Premiership club.
I don’t know how reliable the source is but the details on our sale contract with Barca sound pretty shrewd given that we felt short-changed at the time.
Afternoon all.
bath – Cesc would waltz straight back into our team and (if he stays) Arsene would welcome him back with open, fatherly arms.
However, I cannot see a fairy-tale ending to this story. Just gut feel, no logic applied.
Yes Goonertown @ 349, I agree. Theo’s book shows the arrogance of the man and I was over from Ireland for the outburst v Man U, when Wenger brought on Arshy, totally inexcusable by a captain (was he captain material?). But I remember honestly feeling when I saw the footage after that last game at Norwich that this was a man who maybe didn’t really want to leave after all. But like you say, passionate and fiery. If we’re going to take a player back, please make it RVP not Fabregas (no room in the Inn for his type). Btw, I thought Ozil was critical for the performance v Hull. A couple of unbelievable early arcing, incisive passes, that set the tempo and had Hull all over the place. Amazing, unpredictable movement as he floated around and made space for others. Of course he faded. Btw I know RVP is injury prone too but that will be in the price – if we could get him. Dream on as they say. Not going to happen.
N7@342: to your point, look at the pass 7 secs in, too.
Much as Cesc himself said on departure, the future Arsenal MF is Rambo and LJW. To that we can now add Ozil and need in addition a big strong DMFer. I don’t see a fit Diaby being the latter, more an alternate to LJW or Rambo.
Number 1= priority with a top defensive MFer has to be a top striker.
Much as I would hate to see Cesc playing for any of our Prem rivals, I can’t see his return as a priority.
Nor can I see RvP returning as a priority either. Manure will want to regain most of what they shelled out for him and his trajectory is now almost certainly firmly downwards apart from injury incidence. Better and younger value elsewhere IMHO.
Bath / TS
Great points.
I side with the view that Cesc would be welcomed and would walk back into the team. He’s just the type of player you automatically buy, irrespective of how well your stocked. Much the same with Ozil during the summer despite the fact that we were looking for a striker.
Also think that the Striker and DCM is imperative.
Cesc – in a heartbeat.
Van Persie – can go fuck himself sideways.
I’m with zico.
N7@342 and Ned@355:
That pass at 7/8 secs…to help set up a goal…and…Giroud fluffs his lines…oh dear..all he had to do was punt it in…why did he run with it?
N7 @ 332,
Schneiderlinn, Bender or Pogba would be superb.
Wouldn’t bet against Wenger going back in for Bender again. He’s tends to be persistent with his targets and maybe this summer will provide more opportunity.
I’m with Bath and whoever else…top defensive player is top priority…sometimes gotta play the Maureen way and just prevent giving away goals…though that game last night was boring as s—, he’s now got the advantage going to the bus stop to nick a goal at home..
I rarely feel the need to put finger to keyboard these days as N7 is doing such a sterling job of writing everything that I might have said. Keep it up young man 🙂
However, the mere mention of Cesc coming home is an irresistible dream scenario for me. As someone said earlier, he’d waltz into our team. His skill range and leadership would strengthen our defence, MF and goals per game tally. We’d never miss another CL penalty! (I’ve even heard Steve T say that he’s better in goal than Fabi, but can’t make any claims on the veracity of that statement). Ramsey, Ozil, Fabregas – best midfield in Europe imho. Please, Arsene. Please. Go on, you know I don’t ask for much 🙂
How very, very fine to see About Diaby play 45 minutes last night. I have my Cup Final seat and I’d like nothing more than to see a cameo appearance around 82 minutes (when we’re 4-0 up as the Holic pound will predict in the pre-match) by Diaby. It’s been a very long haul back for him. I have everything crossed, that against all odds, his fitness will hold and he’ll feature prominently next season.
Would also like to see him go to Brazil with France. Great summer training to bring him back up to fitness and maybe a few minutes on the field as a rotator. Arsene will be there, commenting for French TV and whispering in their manager’s ear (“Temps pour Diaby, n’est-ce pas?”).
Great to see three of the five back and “oil back in the engine”*. Not the merest shred of doubt in my mind that my 60-1 double win would have doused the Tolly in champagne with a Guinness for Holic if even these three had been available, never mind Theo and Jack and Ox for the first half of the season. Liverpool? I saw them made to look like schoolboys twice when we were (nearly) fully equipped.
Back to the beach. See you at the West Brom game, Holics.
* As a former “oil in the engine” man, I find this to be one of Mr Wenger’s finest. Nothing like a good lubricant for your piston I always say.
RVP can stay on with UTD please. He’s like an aging Torres, way past his prime!
Besides his character is suspect, a flamini he ain’t!
Ha, “fuck himself sideways”. Lumfinnans style 🙂
I resisted a comment on RvC. Yours has my wholehearted endorsement. May he never darken our doorstep again.
I know some don’t want him back, but let me ask you this:
Who would you rather have alongside Ramsey: Arteta or Cesc?
BtM it is good to hear from you. Most interesting, the prognostication of the ‘holic pound in particular. Is this a new trend? I noticed that you didn’t go so far as to say the final score would be 5-0 after a last minute Diaby tap in so my money is on it. Note that is not a prognostication of the actual score, merely of the ‘holic pound, as yours was. 🙂
Cheers Joe.
Messrs. BtM/zico ….but as a striker playing second-fiddle to The Handsome One and kept in the shadows and fed gruel until he needs some beauty rest? There’s a certain closure in that situation, no?Persie may be a super pranny of the highest order but he’s also a striker of undoubted quality and there is a dearth of those.
Anyway, Loic Remy (assuming he’s cleared of criminal charges) is the ‘low hanging fruit’ for me. Surely we can prise him away? Talking of which, why not make a cheeky offer on Rodriguez and Bony too? All premiership proven, all decent, all could be made even better players by joining The Arsenal.
Threepence has been well and truly spent.
Lars: The joy of Cesc would be almost too much for me.
TS: Remy has been cleared of all charges since two months or so.
Rodriquez would have been an interesting choice, but he will be out for a big chunk of next season what with his cruciate ligaments having been torn to shreds the other week.
Cup final tickets sorted. Bring it on.
Cesc can fuck off as far as I’m concerned. He let the club and the manager down in my opinion. He can stay with his Barca DNA firmly rooted in Barca as far as I’m concerned. If going gets a little too tough for him and he wants out then quite frankly tough shit. He signed an 8 year contract, stayed for less than half of it before chucking a massive sulk. We are the Arsenal and are not second best to anyone. Not even someone of his ability.
Will have a proper back drink later when I get the time.
I’m with SteveT on Cesc. A wonderful player and I’d certainly hate to see him playing for Manchester Rowdies or indeed any other PL club.
As well as the bad taste he left by the manner of his departure I am concerned that he may want to see the team return to being wholly centred around him as it was before he left. I still think football is a team game and I hate to see it reduced to a player and 10 acolytes, however great that player is. (See also Thierry Henry, the latter years.)
Lars: Thanks for that. I bow as usual to your greater footballing knowledge. See you on Monday!
Steve T: I would wager, good sir, that you have never had a splinter in your bum. All true and almost certainly irrelevant only because I cannot imagine Cesc genuinely wanting away from Barca and I can’t see Barca letting players of his quality go esp. at a time when they’re a bit on the wane. See you Monday too?
I hear from Swansea fans that when Bony isn’t scoring he doesn’t contribute much at all.
For the record I don’t think Cesc will leave Barca this summer either, Xavi and Iniesta can’t go on forever and whoever manages Barca next season could do a lot worse than to give Cesc the role in which he is one of the best players in the world.
TS: you can buy the first pint on Monday as a thank you 😉
Deja vu all over again re the RvP/Cesc stuff.
I personaly thought that Cesc’ betrayal was greater, but ho hum.
The fickle nature of football fandom would have us all (well a large % of us) welcoming either back, a few good performances and goals here and there and it’d be like they never left, but until that day……
Fuck ’em both.
H2H knows.
BMBD
H2H@376: lol…that’s the spirit
Re: N7 @374. Maybe just the Swansea fans trying to keep a good thing quiet?
@379
I did wonder.
This place is hilarious, many prefer a Barca flop to bit of an arrogant twat who singlehandedly won a PL title.
this is what I could find on quick glance before work, check 329 pm, cross’s statement; http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/hull-city-vs-arsenal-live-3435718
I will have to find the page again where it listed 44 touches, 29 completed passes (of 32 @ 88%), meaning at most he was disposessed or lost the ball 12/44 times, a bit more than 25%. not his greatest game, but he was pivotal to the first two goals and was certainly both decent and influential in his first game back.
would love to see where you got the 75% misplaced pass/giveaway number you posited…
Interesting back drinks.
Cesc’s Barça record: Appearances: 147; Goals: 42; Assists: 47
I’d sign that sort of “flop” any day – but it’s not going to happen. If Barça can’t buy, they won’t be selling.
RvP is past his sell-by date and stinks to high heaven.
With all the hype about Diego Costa, it was interesting to see the man in action last night. I know he was trying to score against the massed ranks but he didn’t strike me as anything special. He may have more space to do damage at the bus stop – hope so.
I think often that the actual difference in playing quality is minimal in terms of top players while the price differences can be considerable. Therein I guess lies the craft of being a top manager. For example, it looks like both Diego Costa (25) and Mandzukic (27) will be on the move in the summer, and they are both proven goal scorers in their current leagues, but what will the price difference be, I wonder?
Very interesting back- drinking today. For what it is worth I believe Ozil is an extraordinary player and will improve significantly next season. RVP is going to become more not less injury- prone as he gets older but I would take both him and Cesc back because they are top- quality players. Neither behaved perfectly in their last season( s) but that’s football nowadays.
I’m not sure I would take Nasri back.He has burnt his bridges. I hope that we can throw his comments back in his face about trophies after Wembley next month( think my tickets are sorted). Would anyone take Song back? I suspect not and his move to Barca has blown up in his face but he played well for us for a significant part of his career although his game had faults most notably with positioning.
I would like to see Wenger reintroducing Vieira and appointing him as assistant manager in the close season. And I would like to see us being proactive in the market not waiting until after the World Cup and the end of the window.
dkgooner,
Barcelona can buy – the ban has been suspended pending an appeal.
Surprise, surprise.
So they’ll only possibly be banned from doing any transfer business after they have bought and sold everyone they like.
Ha ha ha TS. You are quite right. Not one splinter, which considering it’s ample proportions I would say is quite something????
Mandzukic?????? Very much yes please. The same goes for Reus. Both I would consider shelling out loads for. Bring in Coleman to replace Bacs, clear the final bit of deadwood and we won’t be far off.
Great set of drinks above.
I’d love to see Fabregas back. His leaving didn’t bother me that much, tbh, for many of the reasons stated above. I wonder, however, if after being at Arsenal, then reviving his DNA, and then returning to Arsenal he would be the same motivated phenom that we all remember? (I think so, albeit a bit older, but its a legit question. Would he be as impactful as he was? In the Prem?)
And totally agree with those above: RVP can go fook himself sideways. Same with Song. Same with Nasri.
As for Diaby, it feels like ground hog’s day. Hasn’t this very debate been had, what … 4 or 5 times/years in a row?
IF he comes back fit next season. And IF he stays fit. And IF he gets a run of games … THEN he could be the Viera-type player Arsenal have been missing since the man himself left, if you believe that storyline. (I don’t b/c he’s not Viera-type (i.e., a true great/one of a kind) and never will be.)
A few points there to be sure, but all I’ve time for now is:
We’ve played that game with Diaby how many times now?…and it keeps not working. He’s one hard tackle, one or two extra matches too many from the ol’, 2-3 weeks out (read there: “6-7 months out”). You hate to cut a man loose, but what is the goal here?
Cheers holics, but its back to the grind!
Manager Jose Mourinho is among three Chelsea staff charged by the FA in the aftermath of the club’s Premier League loss to Sunderland.
Good! 😀
Oh dear, his paranoid delusions are going to become Ritz proportioned.
bath, do you mean he’s going to become crackered?
Real Mad one up.
wonder if robben is going to dive for a penalty. wouldn’t that be a surprise.
If Cesc ever came back to us it would be because it had not worked out at Barca or he was surplus to requirements. I don’t see Cesc sulking for a season at Barca to force through a move to The Arsenal???
Benzema is another that is continually linked with us. I would be happy if he started the season with us I must say.
Must have been some fence too, TS. 😉
Homer,
I think Diaby could have been a one off. The best of him has been quite brilliant. He is definitely not a defender but he has/had some sublime skills.
Having had my own football ‘career’ ended by a piece of thuggery at 20, I guess my natural inclunation is to want to see him make it.
How long should that be allowed to take ? I don’t know, but has he ever worked at it. Fantastic addition to the squad if it comes off.
Benzema, Di Maria, Bender.
That’s who I want us to sign this summer. I am a simple man.
Out with the old guard (BM). In with the old old guard (RM). But not for too long! 🙂
Jury’s still out on Benzema for me Steve, seems to blow hot and cold. Never really been completely convinced with Mandžukic either.
My dazzling football career was ended by a distinct lack of ability.
😀
I can still assist….
H2H
I would rather see Mandzukic or Benzema warming up that Park, Bendtner or Sanogo.
Oops, di Maria blazes over from 6 yards.
Has to be Reus for me as first choice signing, backed up by Mike Dean and Howard Webb. The league title is ours ! 😉
Than Park etc…….
Or me if I’m still that clinical. Great lay off H2H
I’d rather see my gran along the line then the first two Steve. 😉
Cheers Steve and well in mate.
Well in Steve T – didn’t realise a goal was on !
Guess that means I’ve Tabsed it. 😉
No, no, Trev.
You didn’t shoot.
Sorry, made up rules are rules mate. 😉
Heh @ Steve T – and there was me thinking you were the Franz Beckenbauer of your generation. 🙂
“When a cheam hash sho mush of de ball dee shometaamsh shwish off”
Thank you for explaining how Real Madrid scored, Jamie Carragher.
No sheeriushly. 😉
Great contribution by Benzema for the goal _ I would have him or Mandzukic as alternates for HFB.
Trev @ 408 – wife and I are pissing ourselves at that. This may be an archaeologically critical moment – the first written record of the subdialect of Scouse, Carraghese.
🙂
It looks a bit Dutch, that. 😉
Alternate to HFB is all he’d be, Bath. No better. No worse. Less potential than Sanogo. What you see with him is what you get. Not much. Highly overrated.
Could Carragher be Dutch or are the Dutch the lost tribe of Merseyside? I think this should be a PhD project.
Ah, Homer, I remember many saying that exact same thing about Rosicky after he’d been out for two years. Rosicknote they used to call him. You may even have been one of them. Now we’ve just gone an offered him a new contract at 33. Go figure. It’s never over until the ruptured achilles twangs.
Good luck to you, Mr Diaby. You deserve just a smidgeon of good fortune.
Evening all. Agreed on Abou, BtM. Hope he can stay fit now. >>>>>>>
Funny, Trev. Puts me in mind of Arseblog’s ‘Carragher, Redknapp, Ballack’ sketch.
Has to be Benzema for me. Looks always to attack going forward can also hold play.
Ok I was in fact doubting Diaby but he’s only 27 and I will pray for the lad that he makes it.
Perhaps Gods have something else for him in store apart from injuries!
sc at 353 I thought I responded. Sorry. RVP has burned many bridges at our club. Likewise has Nasri and a couple others. Falling short of a witch hunt, RVP’s return would have to top his exit if he were to return, minus little boys! 😉
I’m still in the Falcao camp, but that’s just me!
That DNA crap lied to all of us and you guys want him back? he refused to play for us, forego his bonus to leave us and faked injury before a game so that he does not play, i mean these are well know facts about him, specially he refusing to play which was confirmed by Gazidis himself. Yes we do not need to believe what Ivan may say but why will he want to lie about him in particular or is he a pathological liar always????.
We never need him back, he lied to us and maintained his so called stoic silence all throughout the tapping that was so blatantly done by barca and his team mates.
He is like this- when he had nothing to eat, we gave him food and a proper on that to, when he was well fed, he burped at us and said bye. shit.
RVC?? i mean honestly, he is dead for me, he disrespected everyone and if anyone still want him back, i cannot understand that and i do not want to.
We need players who understand the value of playing for Arsenal, they should feel they are playing at the best team in the world. it may not be the truth but the feeling needs to be i am at the best, i will give my life for this club.