She Wore, She Wore, She Wore A Winners Medal
May 18th, 2014 by 'holic
There have been worse days in recent years. A glorious Wembley day, all sunshine and smiles. The match may not have started perfectly, but it certainly finished that way, memorable in so many ways.
The afternoon began with a superb lunch, and a short tube journey later we were joining the throng marching up Wembley Way. There is always something about that walk that makes it special. Nine minutes into the game I have to confess the gloss was coming off the occasion.
Quite how we contrived to surrender two early goals remains a mystery, but two set pieces unhinged us, and but for Kieran Gibbs goal-line clearance it could have been three. To say we started slowly is an understatement. A test of character was unfolding in front of us.
I’m not sure if the same was true around the stadium, but there was more a sense of disbelief than upset at the way we had started. The crowd stayed supportive which must have been a boost to those on the pitch.
The comeback was set in motion by Santi Cazorla, allegedly following orders from Le Boss to hit his free-kick to McGregor’s left hand side. It was another magical Wembley moment. Over an hour remained and we were back in business. Hull were combative, but that was only to be expected. Gradually we started to impose ourselves on the game. Ozil and Podolski came close to putting us on terms before the whistle.
Now it is fair to say with a different referee we would have had at least one of the three penalty incidents that followed (edit, I’ve just seen the handball, make that four), but then again we might not have got the corner from which Laurent Koscielny grabbed yet another vital goal for the club. With twelve minutes to go Kieran Gibbs looked set to win it but he blasted over from eight yards out. So to extra-time.
Olivier Giroud came agonisingly close to the third when his header smashed against the bar. We looked like the team likeliest to end the deadlock, but had to wait until the 108th minute before Aaron Ramsey feasted on a Giroud backheel to score a deserved winner with what I think was his fifth attempt of extra-time.
There could have been a sting in the tail, as Per Mertesacker slipped and Lukasz Fabianski went walkabout, but Gibbs was on hand to shepherd Aluko’s effort to safety. The most exciting Cup Final for many a year was over, and the first trophy of the Emirates years was finally secured. A word too for one not mentioned. Nobody could yet label Yaya Sanogo as prolific, but his arrival on the hour gave us a different threat and his contribution did not go unnoticed.
As I type I am watching the celebrations live. An estimated quarter of a million Gooners have taken to the streets of Islington to celebrate the triumph. I don’t mind admitting that the beer, wine, bubbles, and more beer have had an effect on me this morning. Quite how they are all holding up in the sunshine is a mystery to me. If, by the time you read this, you were among them then well done. You did the club proud this morning.
I cannot close without a thank you to two fine ‘holics with whom I had the pleasure of dining and sitting yesterday. Your company and hospitality will not be forgotten.
Thanks too to Arsenal for sharing the video below of Jenks, the Ox, and Poldi calling up Theo during the celebrations.
WE WON THE CUP!
397 Responses to “She Wore, She Wore, She Wore A Winners Medal”
Cup winners! UTA
2nd place
3rd?
Pump Up!
5th? Get in there Europa!
I’m still drinking and having a oneman celebration here. Did we really get that monkey off our back? I think we did!!
Great times…
Hopefully there are more to come!!!
The position Manchester United find themselves in
I caught the highlights as the cable guys are charging too much here so don’t have coverage. But finally! And what a way to win with the most fitting player scoring the winner. Well done, keep them flowing barkeep and and keep them pouring through to the next season because I smell more than the FA. It’s the beginning, it’s what we needed. I am sure we will work on not giving away early cheap goals and making life difficult but now, celebrate. Yaye!!! I happy for all the players and especially for the man who kept the faith in them, thank you Arsene.
So – Barca say Tata to Martino already. The price of failure some places.
dennis10@8: Yes, we have to stop this bad habit of giving away early goals. Wenger needs to impress on them that “staying calm” is not the same as “falling asleep”. Could have been 3 yesterday if Gibbs hadn’t woken up. But for now, I’m happy to enjoy the win and praise them for their spirit in coming back and thank the gods it was only Hull.
Plenty time for post-match inquiries when the euphoria has subsided.
And message for Steve Bruce: If we grant you those two dodgy decisions you’re complaining about, will you grant us the missed offside for the second goal, and the 4 penalties not given?
We win 3-2 in goals and 5-2 in dodgy decisions.
But well done – your lads did the club proud too. Good luck in the Europa League – hope you beat Spuds in the semi-final.
Top 10?
good man yerself ‘holic
.
top stuff
top man
top ‘holics
.
what a day
what a bar
what a hangover
.
cheers ‘holic , ‘holics
and
cheers Arsenal
ya brilliant shower
of
coronary inducin’ cunts
.
COME ON YOU REDS!!!!!!!!!
.
.
more beer vicar?
don’t mind if i do!
Fine read, ‘Holic, and especially in the circumstances, to round off a fine season of match reports.
Been back drinking the drinks after the infamous Villa game. You said:
“At the end of the day it was one defeat, and that in itself is something we can recover from.”
And didn’t we just.
Love you all, ‘Holics.
Top stuff Guv. The bar should dedicate this long awaited triumph to the Incomparable Gooner Terry. I know he’s happy wherever he is today.
Nice one Impec1 🙂
Impec1 knows.
What a 24 hours this has been, capped off by a gentle amble past the stadium post the celebrations (didn’t get within a country mile of them when they were going on, such was the crazy number of people around). Lots and lots of happy people, loads in colours, just grinning and meandering and waving at total strangers. And all bathed in perfect sunshine. Magical.
Sorry I didn’t get to see you yesterday Guv’nor, but thanks for another season of top, top quality blogging.
North London is red. (Apart from that bit that always seem to be in shadow for some reason) How bloody marvellous is that 🙂
Just content that is all 😀
Bonus Vid : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB0N_XULwGg
I wouldn’t normally do this, but I found a factual inaccuracy in my last post so…..
Once again, but somewhat unexpectedly, I managed to bookend the season.
I sat high up in the North Bank in August on the first day of the campaign and witnessed a clusterfuck of a day end with howls from the stands and brother turning upon brother. At the end of the final, Final day, the family were all reconciled, there were tears, and 9 years of pent-up frustration gave way to unbridled triumph.
And was there ever a more worthy candidate than Aaron Ramsey, to deliver the coup de grace to the corpse of our so-called under-achievement? The brightest of stars in our firmament, this boy was richly rewarded for hard work and resilience, and in the right place at the right time to deliver a “get it right up you” moment to Piers Morgan and his ilk.
My good friend, N7, stated right from the word go, that 4th place and a trophy would be secured this season, and that this would be progress. And it is. There were bleak times, when I felt we were as far away as ever, and where only the comfort of a cold dark rum and an even darker room could anaesthetise the pain, not least after the maulings at both Anfield and the Bridge. But yesterday made up for it.
Yes there were players who didn’t perform as well as we would like, and team selections we maybe did not agree with, but when push came to shove, as a team they dealt with the disastrous starting position they had contrived to put themselves in. They did indeed demonstrate, mental strength. And surely, there is no one out there, neutral or otherwise, who could claim that we did not deserve to win? That despite encountering a match official who was determined to court controversy by ignoring serial blatant time-wasting and at least two stick-on penalties, that we were the team that created the chances, and the biggest danger to our goal was ourselves?
Santi’s goal was all important, particularly because it came before half time. Had we gone in 2 behind it would have re-energised our opponent. Having got back to two each, I think though, the moment that will stick longest in my memory (the winning goal excepted) will be that Gibbs blast over the bar. I was right behind it – there was nothing more expected than the net rippling when the ball fell to him in that position, and yet, it didn’t happen. And when Giroud’s header hit the bar, I then heard the nagging doomer at the back of my mind suggest, “the Gods are still fucking with us”.
But Aaron fixed that for me. Aaron fixed it for all of us.
The importance of this win will hopefully change the mindset of the team. It would be way too much to ask for it to change the mindset of some of our supporters and it will never change the mindset (read narrative) of the media. The clock is ticking before the phrase “only one FA cup in the last nine years” is heard, in fact don’t bet against hearing it on Match of the Day on the opening day of next season.
We have already ruined one set of stories for them yesterday, salivating as they were, when we were two goals behind. We can sustain a league challenge not because we won a cup tie we were expected to win, but because the players have been freed from their own psychological demons, and have united a fractious fan base, however momentarily. We will need more. Reinforcements on the playing side and a reappraisal of our medical team for starters. But that’s for another day.
Enjoy the present – we deserve it.
It should also not go unreported that the day was also a great success due to the intervention of Goonerholic and contribution by some other top Holics. You know who you are. I am writing this as my plane is flying over London on the way home. I have great views of the Emirates where nearby the party no doubt continues, and then bank left I pass over Wembley and think to myself, I will hopefully be seeing you again sometime, preferably sooner rather than later.
A great report ‘holic. Wish I was in Islington today.
The ‘drought’ is at last over and let’s not forget we’ve remained a bloody good team over those nine years.
Onwards and upwards
What Cent said @16, about what Impec said.
A perfectly written finale to the season Guv’nor.
What a wonderful weekend, family celebrations, booze, we win the FA Cup, more booze.
All I asked for before the game was “Just Fuckin Win!” and boy did they tease us with that one. Absolutely great result for team, gooners everywhere, and not least Arsene. That monkey is at last off our back and was last seen heading up Seven Sisters Road towards swampland.
Thinking also of Nurse Abb and of no doubt that this truly lifted her spirits.
well said, guv. and thanks, as always, for a brilliant year of posts.
impec, yes: to gooner terry. you think he wasn’t guiding Gibbs’ headed clearance away? and holicdad had Aaron’s shot all the way into the net.
Gooner Terry this was particularly for you.
I felt it hard to sleep last night what with the adrenalin , the industrial quantities of Guinness, my incredulity at Colin Wanker on BT Sport and the sheer excitement of an enthralling occasion.
In the pub before the game and on the train I kept meeting Gooners who were bricking it but I was serene. I think I therefore started the game as badly as the team . I remember over thirty years ago when we played Liverpool in the four- pronged semi- final. Alan Sunderland scored after thirty seconds in leg 3 and interviewed afterwards( we drew 1-1 as they scored in the last minute) Don Howe was beside himself that we had scored that early and put all that pressure on ourselves. And he was quite serious. Actually the Hull start ensured we started after ten minutes at least and I agree with Zico about the Cazorla goal . Utterly priceless .
Think however of two mates who found themselves at Spanky’s bar in Bangkok. A perfect place to watch the game they thought . Sadly a lack of TVs made it less than perfect. They found an Irish bar but felt it lacked some of the features they had envisaged. Personally I can’t multi- task so my concentration was only on the football!
Spot on, Holic. Another season of top previews and reviews 😉
zico – in the circumstances, that’s quite incredible – you spelled anaesthetise correctly ! 😉
Great write-up, mate 😉
And yes, yes, to Gooner Terry and family if you’ve dropped in, and Abb too. Take care, Nursie.
What Pangloss said @21 about what Cent said @16 about what Impec said @14.
Here’s thinking of you Gooner Terry.
Arsene was smiling like he had just lost his virginity when he went up to the medal podium yesterday. Shows how much this meant to him and what a relief it must feel like. Everyone in that team deserves this but no one more than him.
#14
lovely thought
Feeling very envious today of all the Gooners and Holics I know, and the many thousands I don’t, who were able to be at Wembley yesterday to celebrate and go mental together as that trophy ‘drought’ – can’t remember how many years – came to an end.
Having missed 2 games at The Emirates since the stadium opened, it seemed a bit cruel, in a more self-indulgent moment, that fate and a buggered knee, should conspire to keep me away from our first successful final for, oh yes, nine years.
For everybody else’s sake though, it was probably just as well, with my Wembley record, that I was nowhere near the place.
Fantastic photo on the match report above, Holic.
Makes you wonder how the players ever pick out a team mate when they look up against that back drop of total red and white. How brilliantly apt though, that the winner should fall to Aaron Ramsey.
He mentioned in his post match interview that the team had had a fair bit of criticism from all quarters during those barren years, without ever taking a hint of a swipe back at some of the ‘supporters’ who had been pretty vile to him personally at times.
Not a word, either, about the horrendous injury that forced him to miss such a big chunk of those years.
Just kind words about the fans, his team mates and, above all, thanks to a manager who has believed in him and his teams over all of those years.
Wenger out ?
You have to be joking.
Agree with you Zico about the importance of Santi’s goal, including its timing (and with you bigger points). But what struck me about that goal at the time was McGregor made two mistakes in trying to save it, one maybe a forced error, the other a shortcoming of technique (starting too far towards the centre of the goal, possibly concerned Poldolski would take the shot and go over or round the wall; and going for Santi’s shot with his right, not left hand). Sweet though Santi’s stike was, it was saveable. I just knew at that moment that we would go onto win because we had the quality to capitalize on the mistakes they would inevitably make. And if Gibbs had remembered that it is the roof of the net, not the roof of the stands that those shots are meant to end up in, we would have done it in 90 mins. (Other than that, not a word to be said against Gibbs. He had a really good game, especially his goalline headed clearance and the covering run near the end after Fab had gone all Almunia. The dangerous Elmohamady barely got a look in.)
just rewatching the match from minute 70…what was with sagna’s one pink one blue bootset?
Scuz: It’s Puma’s new design for the World Cup. If you observe carefully, all the players who are sponsored by Puma were wearing the same boots.
*Scruz, that is.
Cheers ‘holic and holics and what a great sentiment from Impec1 above.
It was never really in doubt yesterday was it? I really don’t know why, but even at two nil down I wasn’t expecting anything else then an Arsenal victory, which was wierd because it been pretty worried all week. Must of been all that Dutch (and Irish) courage I had in me. 🙂
Giroud too has the boy/girl mix.
Cheers Holic.
Excellent account of the whole match. I don’t know how you do it! 🙂
Top blogging throughout the season. Respect.
Have a great summer, mate.
Good call Impec1 @14.
H2H – I had the same feeling, watching a recording without knowing the result. I was also thinking “Jesus, and Tottenham fans think they make things difficult for themselves!”
Well that was – almost literally, actually – a final and a half! It was absolutely packed down the pub and so hot that sweat was actually dripping from my nose by the time Thomas Vermaelen lifted the trophy. The sense of joyous relief at the final whistle was palpable and people were running around hugging each other while screaming out various Arsenal songs. The whole place was absolutely rocking, I got a bottle of bubbly in and then one of the owners of the place came out and gave us another bottle on the house. We toasted the victory and then many of us sort of just… sat down and didn’t really know what to do! We were all quite deflated and exhausted after that game, and particularly so those of us who had been there since noon hanging up flags and stuff. We didn’t actually drink that much, we mainly just sat around and talked and tried to take in the moment and sipped on our beers.
But all in all, what a fantastic day it was. Aaron Ramsey has forever written himself into Arsenal history by getting that winner, and seeing Arsene so overcome with emotion he could barely walk down the stairs after lifting the trophy was quite fantastic.
We won the game deservedly, but Lee Probert’s effort can not be describes as anything other than atrocious. We started the season with one incompetent ref and we finished the season with an equally inept man in black so there is bizarre kind of symmetry to that, only this time we overcame that particular hurdle.
For me this has been a great season, there is of course the ink stains of Anfield and Stamford Brigde but all in all this season can not be viewed as anything other than a rather big step in the right direction and anyone who can not enjoy this I can only offer my sympathy and the advice to quit looking at that bloody glass as half-empty. We’ve seen some cracking goals, played some really good football, done a treble over Spurs, seen the emergence of Aaron Ramsey from talent to top-class player and we won the FA Cup after have played Spurs, Liverpool and Everton on the way and beat Hull in the final. No one can say we didn’t deserve this win. Well, they can say it and I’m sure they are but they are wrong.
And the cherry on the cake is of course all the fun I have had with friends here in Stockholm and in London. Gallons and gallons of beer have been drunk, tables have been danced upon, songs have been sung and yet more aqaintances and friends from all over the world have been made and let me take this opportunity to also thank the Holic for another season of great blogging.
Now roll on the summer where we add that extra something to the team and then let’s go again next season!
Oh my, what a weekend. Sweaty despair and then ultimate exhilaration at Wembley. My son was rabbiting in my ear from 2-0 down. “Need a moment of genius, time for Santi, Ozil or Rambo to step up, get a goal back quickly and we win it”. Come the free kick he’s at it again ” this is it, come on Santi, moment of genius”. The boy was not wrong. At the game, the beauty of Rambo’s winner wasn’t so apparent as it became watching it back later (I’ve only seen it 27 times so far so still in analysis phase :-). Even so, as I said in reply to a text from a mate, a West Ham fan who was extolling the virtues of a “typical Arsenal goal to win it” my reply was that we score them every week :-). Goals from direct free kicks are like rocking horse shit. A brilliant, brilliant day, prosaically ended with a Stella and a steak at the TGI Fridays on the A1 in Finchley. Time to mull over and enjoy. All of the waiting staff seemed to be Gooners!
But then today, the unexpected sheer pleasure of the explosion of joy from Gooners round the world and just a mere 250,000 in North London. We weren’t there, but we lucked into the Arsenal.com coverage of the parade (which was brilliant by the way – kudos to all at Arsenal media). If ever there was ratification of the role of those us there lucky enough to be there at the games most weeks have, the players singing our songs back to us was it. Jack – Perry Groves like legend. Chezz – absolute lunatic. As for the BFG – words fail me. My only regret is that no-one had the balls to try a chorus of “my old man, said be a Tottenham fan”. That would have gone down well live on Sky Sports!
Catharsis and joy. The feeling of belonging to something which we are so proud of and also touches all the emotional buttons. I am 57 years old, with two University degrees, happily married with two children and a hugely responsible job which I love. But the sheer joy of the Arsenal winning something beats most things and will leave me with an overdose of smug happy for the rest of the summer.
Top stuff zico and Lars.
and from C100
Cheers Holic!
Well covered, ‘Holic and ‘Holics.
Thoroughly exhausted, but now I have to get some work done (last thing on mind…)
Enjoy this win, and let’s get ready for the summer silly season.
The only downer was seeing John Terry in the team celebration with the Cup
Just like to add my thanks to ‘Holic for another season of top blogging.
The New Zealand Arsenal Supporters Club had booked a venue in Auckland to watch the game, but it had sold out in a heartbeat!
Therefore had to watch the game at home with my son and a couple of his unruly mates in the comfort of my own home.
Rather bleary eyed because of the 4am kick off, we were forced into sudden alertness when the buggers had the temerity to score not once,but twice!
Cue much early morning drinking and, in truth the game passed in a flash.
Dont know if I could have faced another defeat — but we were spared that fate by the Chosen Ones.
Have a great summer wherever you are ‘holics!
I almost said – Lip up, Fatty but then I saw this:
“Arsenal are a fantastic club and why Arsene gets the stick he does I do not know. He’s a top class manager who always puts together a top class team.
“From all of us here we say congratulations to Arsenal.”
That’s more like it.
“Well, I could hear her voice and I knew she was there
But I couldn’t see her anywhere
With a gentle hand, she stroked my head
I looked up at her and this I said
I’m a beer drinkin’ daddy with the Beer Drinkin’ Blues
I love you, baby, and that is true
Before I die, I’ll raise my hand
I’ll drink more beer than any man!!!!”
Nice one ‘holic.
Ended up ticketless but enjoyed the day fully anyway. Duke Of Wellington was my wembley.
Brilliant weekend to be living in islington. You can really see that arsenal is both global and local.
Bring on city and the charity shield!
Thanks all, and particularly bath and hopefully BtM 😉
What a roller coaster of a day.
She wore…
Dave,
If you’re looking in, I musdt honbestyly tlell yuo I hoep Supurs wni the FA CPU nxt yaer.
Ssory abuot all teh speliling mitstakses but I’m tpying with my fingers croessed. 😉
cheers, impec, got it (the puma campaign of blue/pink boots).
oooh…
Very wicked, Trev. Oh so very wicked.
Brand new three year contract for Arsene, not the usual two years, now we are talking. Things are changing positively at our beloved club, I can feel it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/fa-cup/10839804/Arsenal-manager-Arsene-Wenger-celebrates-FA-Cup-success-with-new-three-year-contract.html
A few hours after the game ended, late afternoon here in Boston, I took our 27 months old son to the do grocery shopping. Him decked in Ozil 11 away strips — shorts and socks included — and I am wearing my Giroud 12 shirt. By then based on his papa’s and maman’s pleasantly bizarre behavior he has caught onto the fact that something uniquely nice has happened. In the Whole Foods check-out line the girl, based on the name and look most likely of Thai origin, congratulated us on the win and said she was so sad to miss the game live, she will have to watch it later recorded because of work but she couldn’t resist herself from following online whenever she could.
With the sense of elation that was flowing through my veins I also felt greatly privileged. Privileged to be able to enjoy and share a moment like this that landmarks our path through time and memory, providing directions to navigate us through all the absurdity and ennui and angst that permeate our otherwise mostly quotidian existence.
I was telling my wife hopefully in a few years when our son grows up a bit more he will be able to look back at his photos of yesterday and invent for him memories of this day to connect with all the other great Arsenal experiences by then he would have accumulated.
Milner, Gundogan, Cech, Benzema all joining according to the Mail.
The Times and Guardian have the Milner story though. Good player but not our key defensive midfielder
Lurky @ 53: Thanks for that link. This is also worth noting:
“Arsenal have offered Sagna a new three-year deal worth around £90,000-a-week but City are expected to push their offer beyond £100,000. With Sagna now aged 31, Arsenal are not willing to go any higher and hope that the experience of Saturday’s victory against Hull might still persuade him to stay.”
I hope all Arsenal supporters who have been so harsh in their criticism of the club’s handling of Sagna affair would at least show the humility to accept that their limited information.
Thank you ‘Holic for another season of top top quality blogging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h00l3qhepk
if anyone have 50 mn spare ,all arsenal goal this season….freaking headache 😀
56 Dr F
Maybe the fact that he won’t get on the bench to play UCL at City or PSG may be playing on his mind? A minor but tangible effect of FFP in action?
I really hope Ivan and Arsene send in the attack lawyers to kick in UEFA’s smug little arrangement with the FFP cheats tomorrow morning. Arsenal should not be done with fighting for harder settlement terms on this, not by a long way.
contd. from @56: …that their limited information do not give them the rights to make such final scathing judgments on Arsene and the club.
Top blogging by the top man, top drinking by all the ‘holics, and top season by the Gunners. So many things to be thankful for.
DC @ 59: I am sure clubs like ours — and hoping Bayern, ManU, some of the Italian giants — would continue to press UEFA about taking more concrete actions on FFP, but given that two of the Europe’s most popular clubs in Barca and Real FFP or no FFP things won’t change or matter anyway I have my doubts about how much UEFA will actually enforce. I think Bayern and the German football establishment can probably force the matter a bit more.
About Sagna, I really hope he stays. But here I am going to be a bit controversial , even if he stays I think we need someone else to play the RB in matches where we need to really use the right wing for more creative outlets (maybe it is Jenko, maybe not). I think whether Sagna stays or goes he is going to slowly transition into an excellent CB, he no longer has the pace (the crosses were never there, but the pace allowed him the cutbacks) to play RB consistently at the very top level.
You are welcome Dr.F.
Sagna loves Arsenal, Arsenal loves Sagna, Arsene loves Sagna, Sagna loves Arsene, the fans love Sagna, Sagna loves the fans.
If there is a problem in those relations it is not about love, but money. Not talking about greed, more about principles.
Sagna resonates that he’s been a loyal servant trough the worst period of Arsenal recent history, when the club was in lack of funds. Now, when the money are here he wants his reward and he thinks he deserves it. And I understand him completely
The club, respects Sagna, wants to have him as a player, but refuses to offer him ridiculous sum of money, mainly because of his age and no resale value. And I understand them completely.
The situation is complicated and whatever happens we should not criticize anyone at the moment. If there was easier solution for this problem it was couple of years gag, when Sagna should have been offered a new contract. I am afraid it is to late now.
Lurky @ 63: Exactly! I don’t think there is any lack of genuine effort or mutual respect from either camp, but despite best intentions sometimes professional agreements cannot be arrived at simply because differing priorities.
#29 trev
missin out
thats a bollix
complete fucker
mind you
you’d a jinxed
the whole
shebang
wi your bertie
kneeisms
.
still
.
feel bad for ye fella
.
in the bar
where i watched
the game
loadsa jerseys
me
non jersey wearin
few good souls
not seen
in ages
non jersey wearin
too
.
wear the
colours
make noise
dont assume
dont fuckin assume
dont tell rabid arsenal men
to move outta the way
before a balls been kicked
feckin whippersnappers
.
big cliche
But its not
It was hugs and tears
beer and snotters
at the end though
.
THE ARSENAL
Dr F – agree their is always two sides to most transfer stories and in most negotiations both parties feel they have valid points of value to offer the other.
unfortunately Bac seems to be heading in this category along with two of or most recent captains in cesc and Rvp.
if other teams like city and barca and utd see such high value in these players that Arsene and the club has blooded and worked hard with over the years to help them get to their best level, why don’t we see the same extra value in them, considering they are such high value players to our club, even our captains.
Of cause it nice for Bac to have an FA Cup, but it probably wont be enough, even though we are currently flying on the high of the trophy euphoria. Most of us in the normal world feel insulted when our employer seems to undervalue what we bring to the business or in his case the team. players like Bac and RVP and Cesc are more than just good players on the field, they are the important players in the change room, the senior guys on our team who have great experience to offer the club. this is probably what they think they have to offer arsenal, but the club seems to see them as a player of standard/average value, rather then a special value to the club. $90,000 per week is no longer seen as special for someone like Bac, who is very good at what he does and seen throughout the world as one of the best.
why do we not see what he brings as truly valuable both on and off the pitch. of course, we all know the end result, they leave.
that is why arsenal fans (and there is many of them), get frustrated and disappointed with arsene and the club. it doesn’t seem to make financial sense to let them go, they are senior quality players who should be seen and valued in that way.
they are the first 11.
why don’t we undervalue the second string in our club and offer them the average deals, rather then the first 11 players like Bac.
we all just want the club to be its best and selling players like Bac, RVP and Cesc is not seen as being our best. it simply doesn’t make sense to offer him $20k more and just waste that money trying to blood a new player.
it is not like he is so old he cant run and tackle anymore.
Aussie @ 66: Without getting too bogged down into this debate, I would like to point out a few simple facts:
a. Cesc definitely didn’t leave for money. Cesc forced Arsene and Arsenal to let him go back to his boyhood club, and forced it bad, and there was nothing they could have done about it. Not sure why you would try to rewrite that history, unpleasant as it was.
b. RVP most likely did, but most likely he also wanted to have the guarantee of some trophies. No one in Arsenal, least of all Arsene, thought RVP pr Cesc is average player. What Arsene did for either of them (given RVP’s injury and disciplinary records he would have released by many clubs in on of his injury laden years) not many managers would have done. Eventually their self-interest made their decisions for them, no amount of exceptional handling would have made them stay. At the end of the day, the player would need to want to stay. It is an employment, not forced labor.
c. Arsenal would not be able to compete in a wage-war with City or Chelsea or PSG, especially given that Sagna would leave in a Bosman if he is to leave. The crucial question is what is so extraordinarily special about Sagna that just applies to him but not to Koscielny or Per or Santi all of whom had agreed to new deals, and all core players.
d. To say that a club like Arsenal with such accomplished records in financial efficiency does deals that make ‘no sense’ is probably taking one’s own ideas about the world of football business way too much seriously. We let cloud our judgments, naturally, by our passion and own sense of pride and personal connection to certain players, but the club needs to run on a set of basic business principles. Additional 20k a week is more than 3 millions over three years on a player whose abilities and value would depreciate rapidly. I know it sounds peanuts in this era of obscene financial doping, but is actually a good amount of money for a business that must be self-sufficient.
At the end of the day, as ‘Holic so succinctly had put once, the hired hands would leave sooner or later but the club, the organization, its principles would stay. No one is indispensable enough to be above that. I support Arsenal, and really hope Sagna would stay at least for a couple of more years, but him leaving would not be such a catastrophe that we need to indulge in so much criticism about the club. I will quickly forget him and be excited by the newest RB — established or greenhorn — who would then be tearing up the PL.
It’s still a business, aussie, and you don’t pay players over the odds for purely sentimental reasons. If the powers that be, and of course that includes AW, think Sagna is worth no more than £90,000 pw then that is what he’s worth to us and it’s up to Sagna what he does. As a player entering the last phase of his career I imagine the idea of sitting on the bench a lot while pocketing more than he’s ever previously earned must look a nice cushy option. I know it would to me, but then I’ve worked hard at being lazy all my life. 😉
Since serious money entered the equation loyalty to one club has taken a back seat to financial pragmatism. And good luck to the players too. Most of them are out of work in their early 30s, with zero alternative skills to fall back on. Who is going to worry about them in 10 years time?
Öskar
Still buzzing.
WE WON THE FA CUP
The next time the mighty Arsenal play, I will be there. NYC won’t know what to do with so many Gooners!!
Thanks Holic for such a great year. This place and these people make The Arsenal even more special to me.
I know Gooner Terry watched the parade with a smile. God bless him.
I also know ABB is a tough cookie and had us all in her thoughts when we won.
WE WON THE FA CUP.
Fair points both Oskar and DrF
I am not suggesting for a minute to keep BAC or any other player for sentimental reasons or spend more than our expected budget.
The players we have let go to our opposition in recent times like Rvp are top shelf world class players in their prime, not sentimental b graders we like hanging around the place for fun.
How can that be good business or make good strategic football sense.
I am simply suggesting wouldn’t it make sense to pay the top class we build and develop in their prime rather than have half the squad as tier 2 or tier 3 players that end up costing the same in their individual contract difference amounts and starting over again and again.
If you look at young jenkinson as an example, the gap in experience and quality is significant against BAC just as the money spent on sanogo and giroud or bendtner is when compared against letting Rvp go.
I just think these types of senior world class players Can play a very important role to balance a club like ours who has such a high mix of youth.
I am not suggesting spend more money, just spend it on a first 11 at least of top shelf and negotiate more with the second 11 and beyond.
Cheers, Dr. Somnus. Hope Lil’ Poldi finished strong.
Dr. F @67: Wonderful logic and perspective. Top post.
So here, if you are managing the club, is the Sagna dilemma. He has one season perhaps left in him at the zenith of his career. You have two up and coming full backs. One is the Corporal, promising but who is still a role of the dice as to whether he will be the next Lee Dixon. The other is Bellerin, potentially better than the Corporal but an untested entity in need of two or three years’ grooming. Ideally, you’d like Sagna to stay another year certainly, and possibly a second in which he could also be the auxiliary reserve center back. But three years out? Will he even be on the bench? Will either of Jenks or Bellerin be our first choice right back by then, or even will a stop-gap right back have been bought, a Nacho to Gibbs, you might put it?. So do you commit $40 million over three years to retain Sagna? Or do you buy a replacement with that money? Your call.
Still buzzing over here!
I’m rewatching the match on my Iphone for the second time and it is just as exciting as the first time. At first frustrating and infuriating, but then mesmerizing and awe-inspiring. Love it.
Regarding Sagna, I really hope he stays for another 2-3 years as we ease Jenkinson into the team. But if we fail in getting him to sign a new contract, what if we were to go for someone like Seamus Coleman? Wouldn’t have to worry about getting accustomed to the Prem as he’s already playing for Everton…
Haha! Nobody wants to manage your crap club Clive Allen!
http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2014/05/mauricio-pochettino-may-not-want-the-tottenham-job/
NbN- why do we seem to see players like Sagna in the zenith of their careers when others see them in the prime or height of their careers and offer to pay them accordingly.
Isn’t Sagna exactly where we want a player in that role to be.
Match hardened, experienced, fit as Buggery, hard as nails and able to perform at a high level week in week out.
I Just don’t see the financial or football squad sense in finding someone to do exactly what an existing god arsenal player already does.
This is why I question the money side, it seems a risk at best to go and find someone for the saving of 20k per week in this day and age who may only do 80% of the job Sagna already?
I guess i am saying the 20k per week does seem minor in this day and age and I am questioning our perceived lack of value of experience and consistency over finding a new player on 80% of his salary demands anyway.
I don’t believe these guys want to leave arsenal at all, they simply want to be paid a sum = to what they bring.
They bring Experience and an ability to do a job now, not in 3 years when they learn. Why is that such a harsh or unacceptable demand.
not sure what is happening here.
http://images.football365.com/14/05/800×600/Aaron_3143355.jpg
Right I just want a bit of fuckin respect around here
“What do we think of Tottenham?…”
😆
Aussie@76, it’s very simple: Bacary Sagna turns 32 next season. Very few fullbacks last very long past 30. Look, for example, at a player like Maicon (by many considered possibly the best fullback in the world in his prime) who faded completely at 30 and was a massive flop at Man City and is now, at 32, almost completely forgotten. Dani Alves is far from the player he was just two years ago and he is actually younger than Sagna, Patrice Evra and Ashley Cole are mere shadows of the players they used to be et cetera et cetera.
Aussie, no matter how you say it Sagna is at his twilight years as a top class right back. The attacking side of his game is almost completely gone since he lost his pace. He is still very solid in defence though.
Again, City see us as direct rivals now, I will suppose. Taking Sagna away from us,:to them, means weakening an enemy and they will increase their offer to him until they outbid us, with the sign on fee as an added advantage.
Sagna deliberately created this situation by running down his contract as I would suppose Arsenal had offered him extension on improved terms before now. Like has been said earlier, there must be the desire to stay. Walcott was in a somewhat similar position a couple of years ago and the club was able to tie him down.
However this pans out, there should be no hard feelings from either party.
lordgunner, cheers for that link. A very well spent 50 minutes of watching that was.
And while watching that compilation, I got thinking about how expectations can shape perception and Southampton are a case in point here. They have at times generally been praised to the skies (note: by me too) and several of their players are being linked with big moves to Liverpool and ManU et cetera. But if we take a step back, have they really been that brilliant? They may have played a rather entertaining game and at their best been difficult as hell to deal with – but they finished just six points ahead of Stoke. They finished a rather whopping 24 points behind us and for all the praise their attacking style has received they scored 14 goals less than we did and we had a relatively poor season in that respect. They actually scored one goal less than Tottenham who more or less all season were depicted as struggling in the creative side of the game and rightly so for the most part. In fact, seven teams scored more than Southampton did and Swansea, hardly talked about as prolific, scored the same number of goals.
Now, I am not saying Southampton are a crap team. But maybe we shouldn’t go overboard either, I think many of the players now hailed and praised may be perceived in a very different light in less forgiving circumstances. Luke Shaw looks the real deal, but I remain unconvinced by many of his teammates.
frank: I think City should be very careful about taking Sagna merely to weaken us. UEFA are already looking at them with interest and anything that stinks of an abuse of financial muscle would be a rather risky gambit at this point.
I think we have to assume that they are offering Sagna whatever it is that they are offering him because that’s what they think he’s worth. If it’s more than we think he’s worth then, that’s it.
No hard feelings towards him or the club if he takes it, no greatly enhanced hard feelings towards Man City in that case either [*].
COYG
[*] Mine only goes as far as 10 and that’s where my hard-feeling-o-meter is set anyway.
Lars and frank-
I still can’t believe someone can knock back $90k per week ( per week) and have a better offer around the corner.
Quite incredible….
Aussie, City paid us 50m for Kolo, Adebayor and Clichy and you still find their offering 100k+ weekly to Sagna as quite incredible?
May I ask you, why?
Lars, with you on Southampton.
I think that people are often confused and excited by them more then they deserve and the main reason for that basically is the type of the football they play, not the tremendous quality of the players they have. Their style is not a style of an typical English team, they play more like they are in Primera, which is more pleasing to the eye, but I am not sure it gives the required results.
They have some decent players though. I would not mind Lallana or Clyne/Chambers as a backup in our team, or even Schneiderlin. They are all talents but non of them is Arsenal material at the moment.
frank, Lars – with you on Sagna.
I think there’s a bit of “here we go again” going on again in Sagn’s case.
He has been a brave and consistent performer for us throughout his time at the club, but I don’t see this as comparable to the loss of Cesc or RvP. Personally, I thought his performance level tailed off a bit towards the end of this season.
Full Back is now possibly the most physically demanding position on the pitch, requiring ceaseless running with often big tackles and extreme stretches at the end of a sprint.
As Lars and frank said, few can maintain that sort of effort over the age of 30 and, while there have been some excellent exceptions this season, the majority of Sagna’s crosses betray a level of tiredness at the end of those runs. I also think that both of our full backs could improve on the number of crosses they allow into our box.
I’m sure Sagna would be a good strong character to have around the place but, realistically, he has one more season at full back.
So those who would want to offer him £100,000 per week for 3 years have to ask themselves whether they would be wanting to give that to, probably, our third or fourth choice centre back in twelve months time.
Not forgetting, of course, that at Arsenal, unlike Man City, someone has to actually pay for that.
By the way, have I missed a trick somewhere or isn’t Zabaleta still at Man City ?
Would Sagna expect to play at right back there ?
Lurky – my incredulity on the $90k per week offer was not about city or arsenal, it just hit me how much that sum of money is per week to the average aussie like myself trying to live in Sydney where beer is $8 per schooner in the city and a hamburger and chips are $15.
In football talk we use the term 90k, 100k and $120 k per week like the K stands for keno dollars or Monopoly money .
I was just thinking how in the normal world that if someone offered you $90k per week, there would be no better offers just around the next city, unlike the football world.
The extra $20k per week as frank/Lars added is equal to up to $3mil for the contract period.
That Is actually quite staggering when you put the contract offer out like that for a 30+ year old fullback who doesn’t even have to bang in goals each week as a measurement of his success
The praise for Southampton (and Swansea the season before) was deserved because they both played good free flowing, exciting football instead of the long ball 11 man defence crap the likes of Stoke and Bolton have served upped season after PL season…unless they were playing the Arsenal I enjoyed watching the Saints this season.
Especially when they beat Everton 😉
Aussie, you put that nicely, and after all that it strikes me why you are blaming the club for Sagna situation? Are they supposed to offer him more money, really don’t understand?
Nice reports Lars, Zico, Trev, Faustus, Ttg……
I watched the match on my own, in a room, in a field, in West Cork.
Normally at weekends, I would take a trip to the local. But not this time. Not for this game. This game was way too important to be interrupted or slagged off.
So on the 17th minute, amidst the lowing cattle and bleating sheep, there was a primal scream of sorts when Cazorla rattled the net from 400 yards. Composure somewhat restored, I begun to finally think that this day would be ours. It came as no surprise that Kos got the equaliser. Its not the first time the lad has stood up and delivered an important goal. There really couldn’t have been a more fitting hero than Rambo to score the winner. At first blush I thought he got lucky and just mishit the ball, but its only when you see it again, and again, and again that you realise that this goal will be marked in history not just because it was the winning goal in the 2014 FA CUP Final (lovely ring to that isn’t there), but because it was such a typical “Arsenal” goal.
I’m just so delighted for Wenger. For all he has had to put up with. For the pressure he came under and the distinct lack of respect shown by so called fans, rival managers, media outlets.
He seemed to really enjoy it all. His 5th FA cup may well have been the most important trophy in his career to date considering the austere re-building project that preceded it and how that has galvanised the long term future of the club.
But you do feel that this must be used as a springboard to something more. The Wenger era must surely be marked by a European cup. So lets hope that this transfer market brings in some more serious talent.
And even over the weekend, much of the media kept on spouting on about the 8 years without a trophy. They just don’t get it. But the lad who compiled this little piece of magic gets it. In his words:
“Football clubs are not built on trophies alone. They are built on tradition, class, proper fans, and most importantly, memories – all of which Arsenal has in abundance. “
Have a look at this and think, where would we be without Wenger?
http://vimeo.com/69360936
Thanks for the video Joe.
Arsenal way – the right way.
Lurky – i guess At first glance on the situation I just saw Sagna as one of the good guys who was a loyal arsenal warrior week in week out and a reliable and consistent performer who was rarely injured, except for leg breaks. It just didn’t seem to make financial or football sense to start out fresh in that role for someone we have who is solid in a very important role these days as trev suggested.
He seemed like the sort of strong senior experienced player that other teams tend to keep around for an extra year, because of just that.
But I guess the books are the books and his age is not on his side from a purely contract point of view.
Shame to see him leave if he does all the same.
…..So on the 17th minute, amidst the lowing cattle and bleating sheep….
Joe is cba?
Who knew?
😎
Aussie: There is a well observed phenomenon in professional sports of players getting the big contracts of the careers once they have passed their peak. Clubs buy past, not future performance. I don’t think anyone would argue with paying Sagna an extra £20K a week for a one-year contract extension. The question is whether he would continue to be value for that for three years, even including the intangible value of him being a senior pro. This is why running a club is not like playing Fantasy Football Manager. Nor, it should be said, can anyone blame a 30-year-old from trying to secure the longest contract he can. This will be Bac’s last big one.
This is no disrespect to anyone in the bar…but my general opinion is…
…The debate re Sagna is draggin on. With him we are stable without him we are weaker it is as simple as that. His experience is invaluable to the squad.
Financially we have offered what we can. It’s a take it or leave it situation. The ball is now in Sagna’s court. I agree with Frank, if he goes then there will be no hard feelings eitherway.
Our second most experienced RB is Jenkinson. The dress rehearsal for him will be over if Sagna leaves, with Bellerin waiting in the wings. I don’t know much about Aruelia (or whatever), so I cannot comment there.
In my opinion we need to strengthen more upfront than at the back. That is where the bulk of the money needs to be invested. Full stop.
If Sagna needs retirement money then so let it be. He will play less and earn more. Fair play. Trophy won! Thanks!
when Cazorla rattled the net from 400 yards
Blimey Joe, that’s some shot 🙂
Cheers NBN – I like trophies as they are a just reward for the effort. It is It is my arsenal weakness. Hence why I have been in a bad mood for 8 years.
Goonertown – agree up front is important but please don’t think that If BAC is to leave young jenkinson isn’t gonna do the job at the top level.
He is tier 3 not even tier 2.
We will need to spend that money on quality, not a stop gap till he is is ready.
400 yards you say?
Would explain his poor positioning.
Thought he could go for a swig of Buckfast before the ball arrived…..
An unforgettable day that ended in tears of joy, whoever lived through that game will remember this day for the rest of their lives.
We did not play well for most parts but then in a cup final it usually never happens for the fancied team. Our passing game was completely missing in the first half and after 10 minutes it felt as is if the team was in deep slumber and refused to wake up.
The moment Santi scored, we knew dint we that the come back was on. In that context, the clearance by gibbs was all together significant. 3-0 would have been a tall order even against hull.
We can dwell upon so many things, the penalties not given, the gibbs miss, sanogo substitution by 60 min, so many talking points.
In the end the man who made this season his own, scored the winner and celebrated ala Charlie George, that was his moment Aaron Ramsey, that was a goal that should win a cup final, the back heel and the right foot hit without taking a touch was so Arsenalesque.
The best part though was still reserved in the end. Seeing Arsene Wenger lift the trophy was so much happiness that i believe a lot cried. He has done his share of mistakes but the man has given his all to the club and no one deserved it more than him. We love you boss, we truly do.
Parade on Arsenal Tv was awesome, 250000 people lined up to see the champions, hell yeah. The loudest cheers for Theo and Sagna and of course Ramsey, Arsene being Arsene humility personified.
To a man and woman here in Bangalore, this was our day, more than 500 people in a sports bar went delirious in joy in the middle of the night crying like babies and hugging insane. It felt like we won something, of course we won right, its our Arsenal.
Who are we- Champions, hey u little donkey shit called jose, what did you win- a rat’s ass.
Cracking goal Vinay, worthy of Aaron himself.
Glad you enjoyed the day, here’s to many more, which can’t come too soon.
Well in Vinay!
Pretty awful shirt this
http://www.footballshirtculture.com/14/15-Kits/arsenal-limited-edition-nike-shirt-to-commemorate-fa-cup-victory.html
I would love to get together with any Goonerholics coming to New York for the Red Bull Game.
Aaron Ramsey has described his winning goal in the FA Cup final as the “most important” in his career.
“I had a few rash shots but I think I made up for it in the end,” Ramsey said. “It was a great lay-off [from Giroud], I shouted for it and he back-heeled it. The goalkeeper has a lot less time to react when you finish it first time.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20140518/ramsey-my-take-on-wembley-winner
———————
“”””I shouted for it and he back-heeled it.””” ……………….. Real class from Giroud !!!
He may not be the most clinical finisher, but he brings a whole damn lot to the team! If we get another striker it’s to complement him and not replace him i hope!!
Louis van Gaal has been named as the new Manchester United manager, with Ryan Giggs working as his assistant.
“This club has big ambitions; I too have big ambitions. Together I’m sure we will make history,” said Van Gaal.
Hope he’s not talking about his balls there! Look forward (not literally!) to him flashing his players again when they don’t perform.
RECAP : http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/875555/luca-toni:-bayern-boss-louis-van-gaal-showed-us-his-balls
🙂 😀
Job done. This may just be a new beginning. Congratulations to all involved.
Call me whatever you want but, Sagna is staying. I have an unshakeable belief that cannot be attributed to anything in particular that the man is staying put. You heard it here first.
The question we should ask is whether Jenkinson is ready to step into Sagna’s shoes.
The manager surely sees some potential in him and has shown faith in Jenkinson’s abilities by deploying him as a left winger whenever he wanted to close a game out.
He has close to 40 appearances for the club and always starts to look impressive if he puts in successive appearances. He played the first five matches of the ’12/’13 season when he put in regular impressive displays that prompted comparisons with Sagna. He also played regularly at the start of the just ended season and was very impressive against Fener.
My opinion: Jenkinson would have benefited from another year of pupillage under Sagna but I don’t think he will be too much of a downgrade on today’s Sagna.
After all, people said Gibbs was not ready to replace Clichy.
Nice one Vinay, Joe – will have to watch the video later.
Hope cba hadn’t left that field in too much of a mess for you. 😉
It seems the gentlemen of the fourth estate have unsurprisingly wasted no time revising the last, er, nine years.
Wenger the “one-eyed Whinger” has suddenly become a “manager who has steadfastly refused to sacrifice his principles in the face of severe criticism”. He has “stuck to his beliefs about young players, even through the most trying of circumstances”.
Mostly created by them, of course.
I would like to heartily thank the press for the last nine years. Their sniping and mocking merely made Saturday’s triumph doubly enjoyable.
Hold the presses!!
Agreement breaks out between Trev and Pangloss!!!
More at 11.
Lots of chat here about the odd 10k or so for Sagna. No mention of Wenger’s 165k for 3 years ? Too long ? Value for money ?
Thank you Joe@91 for that video link. Respect.
Respect too to Gary Neville for what he says on the video – should be compulsory listening for all those fans who want Wenger out.
And even more respect for our manager for his words on the video. The man is unique – I feel so privileged to have witnessed what he has done for this club – and full of anticipation for what comes next.
The trophy HAS to be the start of a new era of challenging for the title every season, but this squad will need strengthening. We can’t continue giving opponents easy leads in the first 10 minutes of games, so strengthening in the defensive midfield is essential, as is the acquisition of a clinical striker. No offence meant to Giroud – I think he brings loads to this team in terms of goals, work rate and lay-offs, but we simply have to score more goals. Walcott will make a difference but if AW says he won’t be back before September, that probably means October or November. And Özil needs to get some upper body strength – he’s a wonderful player to have – acceleration, vision, technique – but Norwich and Hull showed how easy it is to knock him off the ball.
That must have been the best blog to write for the past 9 years, Maestro.
A truly memorable day and one of my favourite FA Cup finals ever – and I include 1971 and 1979 in that.
Like others here, I’d like to thank you for another great season of blogging and look forward to seeing you again sometime next season.
COYRRRs!
FA Cup Winners 2014.
Sill buzzing about the win, and for Boss!
On the Sagna saga, to me, it’s simples — boils down to economics:
Let’s assume that the 90K per week for 3 years is accurate, and that the expectation for Sagna is that he would remain first choice RB for a year or 18 months or two years, and 3rd/4th choice CB for all three.
What’s the alternative?
If you believe that the Corporal is ready to step in as first choice RB, and you can use the Sagna 90K per week to sign or promote a reasonable quality reserve RB and a reasonable quality reserve CB, then it’s Godspeed to Bacary…. Use whatever’s left of the money you’d save on not signing him to throw into the pot to acquire the complementary striker or defensive midfielder or backup keeper that you need.
If you don’t think that the Corporal is ready, then you’d need to pick up a front line RB. To do so would require, in terms of transfer fee and weekly salary, let’s say, the equivalent of 60K to 70K a week, and more likely at least a three year contract. Then you’d also have to pick up/promote a reserve CB, for at least a year, more likely two, at probably 30K a week. And that reserve CB could turn out to be of squillaciesque quality….
A tough, tough call. I’m no football manager, nor an economist. AW is both, and it looks like he’ll have three more years to live through this decision!
Speak to anyone who watches a lot if French football and they would consider Aurier of Toulouse an upgrade on Sagna. He has the most goals and assists by a defender in the French league and is positionally flexible. Lower salary and available for 7m and he’s 21
howdy
.
ye see the nike patchwork shirt?
.
whoever designed that dung heap
needs beaten about
the head and shoulders
with a short stick
.
ye wouldn’t put it on a donkey
.
mind you
not very fussy
those big eared tarts
.
anyhoo
.
cheerio
joe@91, wonderful video. put me right back at many of those moments, both beautiful and horrible.
nike’s patchwork shirt should not be purchased. yech.
cba. – 🙂
And agreed about the shirt.
Nike just trying to make some extra dosh at the end of their contract by using up all the old ends of lines and reels of spare material.
Clearly it’s too late to sell old style shirts, so mash them all up together and hope someone is daft enough to buy it.
Ttg,
So let’s sign Aurier – what have we got Toulouse ? 😉
Well, it’s always a good old joke to full-back on. 😉
Certainly is, Trev. Old chestnuts don’t come much Aurier than that one.
🙂
Nice vid Joe, thanks.
And so, silly season starts. So soon … ? Ah well.
Still just reveling in the after glow here.
Joe@91 what a video,that brought tears to my eyes. Guys you need to see that video. What a pleasure to support a team like ours. I know I get mad at Wenger sometimes,but am sure happy he is our coach. I know most folks want him gone but we are going to really miss him when he leaves.
What a whirlwind last few days it has been for me. Since arriving in London on Thursday, I was in the Tollie 3 times in the last 4 days, for varying lengths of time between 4 and a 1/2 hours and 10 and a 1/2 hours per session. At one point I was only away for 11 hours before returning 😆
On Saturday, I believe I experienced the full emotional spectrum in the span of 120 minutes. From 2-0 down in 8 mins (“They (the players) can’t let this run, can they?” to 3-2 in extra time (“Look, he’s doing the Charlie George!”) to Wenger and the players lifting that old trophy. The Emirates went crazy at full time. There was a pitch invasion even though no players were on the pitch! Someone did their ankle somehow and had to be stretchered off, doing the Theo 2-0 gesture as they went 😉 Gooners held up traffic all along the Holloway Road, sitting down and standing up in accordance of how much they hated T*ttenham at that given moment. Cars were rocked, flags were waved and happiness was rife on the streets of Islington. 9 years of hurt, dispelled with 1 Aaron Ramsey goal. Back to the Tollie a few hours later only to see Snowy, bath & tabs in one of the beer gardens… Basically, I didn’t leave until Sunday 8)
Went to the parade also, Ollie happened to be on my Piccadilly line train coincidentally and I happened to see Glenn with his wife & two boys and the indomitable (when it comes to Arsenal transfers) Snir. Of course I had to alight to the Tollie to commemorate this happy concidence with a pint of Guinness (cheers Glenn) and by the time we tried to return, the Police had blocked off the access via the tunnels to the Armoury 🙁 A shame, but it was truly worth missing seeing the players, the manager and the cup to finally meet Snir in the flesh. We ended up going for one of the best kebabs I’d had in years (how I hadn’t been to this particular place before even though I worked on the Seven Sisters Road for 9 months still befuddles me till now:? ), then back to the Tollie for a mammoth all day session, meeting lots of top Gooners until it was time to leave to prevent missing last trains.
I’m back in Plymouth now, the walk back to my student house was made with very heavy legs. I was on my feet for most of the weekend, so I must’ve been running on adrenaline and fumes towards the early hours of Monday morning but only sitting down in this swivel chair do I realise how much energy I’ve expended over the last few days, and for what a joyous occasion.
We won the cup 🙂
A great post to cap off a great season of blogging. Holic, I doth my proverbial cap to you, sir.
Pangloss @122 – got to give you pun of the day for that one ! 🙁
epic, wind. just epic. glad you got to meet snir, sorry about the parade…
Thanks Trev! 🙂 🙂
Nice one Wind.
On the Sagna……………….
Nah, fuck it, if you don’t get it by now you never will. If he thinks the grass is greener on the other side then bye bye.
If anyone thinks that 100k a week, and by the way that’s pounds, not dollars, is the going rate for a 31 year old right back then I suggest you think again. There’s probably only one or two who are earning anywhere near that, even at the oil clubs. If Sagna can get it then good luck to him.
Can we just keep Sagna and give him what he wants.. Will be difficult to replace him. How many teams in the PL have better RBs? Probably City and Chelsea..? Not getting Zabaleta or Azipueeedsl whatever…
a terrific windy epic
.
yer a top fella
.
good man yerself
.
top gooner
.
🙂
Keep Sagna and Vermaelen. Pity we lost Fabianski.. Get that 1 world class striker we need.. and we are done..
H2H @130 knows.
Poor old Wenger gets stick if he makes a hard-nosed decision and stick if he doesn’t. Believe me much as I love Bac he isn’t going to get any better and we need to move on. I think Frank has a very good point about Jenks. He is certainly a much better attacker than Sagna already but lacks his defensive solidity.
I’d go for the Toulouse right back. He has an aurier about him. Sad to lose Bac but its the end of an aurier. And buying him wont send us into cash auriers.
Think what fun Trev and Pangloss can have with this guy!
Keeping Sagna doesnt mean not getting a RB. See Bac in a CB role in the future.. and hes bloody good at it too. Lets still get that 1st choice new RB.
Dont want to lose Vermalen either . but again cannot find fault if either leave.
But have to strengthen.. Any chance of getting Welbeck.. even RvP.. [leaving sentimentality aside ] and pure logic.
ttg:
“He has an aurier about him” – 9
“…end of an aurier” – 9
“…wont send us into cash auriers” – 7
Let yourself down slightly with the last one, but otherwise an excellent contribution.
I fear we are simply provoking Trev, and he will return to put us firmly in our places.
scruz @ 127, H2H @ 130, cba @ 132, cheers gents 🙂
I forgot to mention in my post, Arsenal were doing Google Hangouts with lots of supporters clubs around the world, the most well known being being the NYC Arsenal Supporters Club situated in the Blind Pig! The connection was terrible but they seemed to be having a great time 🙂 If I’m ever in New York during the season, I have to give it a visit.
Pangloss
Couldn’t be Saurier about the last one but it’s been a long day .
At Chateau Trev the Pun Turbines are rauriering into life
Maintenant Je dirais au rierevoir
I will get my vetement
ttg & Pangloss, you dare to provoke the wrath of Trev, in all his punning fury!?
*dives for cover behind bar, pours cheeky pint whilst barman isn’t looking* :p
Wind – your recollection of events makes me insanely jealous of not being there, truly outstanding report and good on you for meeting many top Gooners, especially Snir, I want to meet that guy one day aswell heh.
Seriously, I need to get from planning phase to “fuck it, I am doing it” phase and finally fly over to watch boys in flesh (and meet as much of you holics as possible:P).
I tried reading all those puns to Mrs Trev but she wouldn’t listen. Just stuck her fingers in Auriers. 😉
I hear he’s coming to replace Bac.
We need wauriers out there. 😉
Nice report Wind,
Great video, Joe.
Recollects nicely our more recent sufferings, balanced with the potential to be great again.
I think Arsene Wenger has sometimes appeared to be content with third or fourth place in the league because he has had to be, and is realistic enough to accept it.
But I’ve never believed he lost the desire to win. How fantastic would it be to see him holding that Premier League trophy again.
If anyone deserves it ……….
So, ttg,
Do you really believe this right back can bring back the glAuriers ?
Anyone know what the deal was with the towels, or were they flags, that Ramsey and Santi were wearing after the final on Saturday? I get that Ramsey was wearing a Welsh flag and Santi an Asturias flag, but why? Are the Celts rising again and this was some secret sign to rally the ancient tribes?
So if the press is to be believed FFP has bitten at the Etihad that bastion of prudent financial management.
Apparently they have offered a 31 year- old reserve right back £150,000 a week. Are there really Arsenal fans out there who think we should try to match this?
On a separate note I’m surprised the abject incompetence of Lee Probert on Saturday hasn’t been given more publicity. Can you imagine Mourinho responding to that? Has a side ever been denied four stonewall penalties in one half in a Cup Final? Yet it’s hardly rated a comment.
Maybe his signing would be like a Serge of fresh Aurier.
I know, don’t slam the door on my way out. 😉
Great report wind, hope you left something in the tank for those exams!
Offtopic cannot remember the last time we had a season with so many goals that go into a highlight reel.. We played some sublime stuff this season, didnt we?
Counter attacks : Ramsey vs Swansea..
Individual brilliance : Ramsey vs Norwich @ Emirates
Team : Jack vs Norwich
Corkers : Rozza vs Sp*rs
Volleys : Ramsey vs Sunderland
Some of the football were jaw dropping.
Re: NBN @145. Hadn’t you heard? Maybe the movement started in Asturias. Not that I am a wild-eyed Asturian nationalist of course, but it is a lovely land as is Wales. No wonder they have joined forces. 😉
NBN @145,
if the English amongst us get irritated about Santi’s flag from Asturia, would those irritations amount to Angloasturia bitters ?
No, I thought not ….. 😉
bt8b: both are indeed, as you say, beautiful places, and both are part of the Atlantic Celtic Arch.
Fine work above from Trev and TTG. I’m glad I was distracted, so not tempted to reply.
Great drink, Wind. I think we’ve survived the dreadful consequences you predicted @139. Tomorrow, however, we might be forced to pay.
Night all.
Trev, that’s a hard one to swallow…
ttg @146 – I would not like to see sagna go to any opposition for a few $k per week difference, but $150k per week v $90k per week.’
bye bye bac.
are city fucking kidding the FFP or what.
Aussie
I agree with you . It would be silly to lose him for a small difference but at the figures Citeh are quoting its a no- brainer.
From his point of view it’s an amazing deal and he will always be welcome at the Ems.
Makes you wonder who’s running the finances at Citeh!
Great video, Joe. I’ve seen it before but it’s well worth re-watching. Here’s Wenger’s quote at the end.
“If I have one merit, I knew always, I think I have been loyal to this club, and committed. I do not say I was always right. But I knew always that it was a privilege to be at this club.
“In many many years, people will look back on this period and think that we have put the club on the right track, that we have defended the right values, and that together we were not too stupid…
“I would like to invite you, let’s stand behind this team.”
Gives me the shivers. Especially:
“I knew always that it was a privilege to be at this club”
“I do not say I was always right”
“We have defended the right values”
“Let’s stand behind this team”
What excites me most is that there’s good reason to believe that “this period” is finally drawing to a close. So glad the great man has signed on for another 3 years. I can’t wait to see what he can accomplish.
Good point about Aurier’s attacking prowess, Ttg. The lad scored more league goals this season than anyone at Arsenal except OG, Poldi and Rambo. And yes, that includes Theo, Santi and Özilla. And only four Arsenal players had more assists! His stats make Bacs look like a Championship player (he’s not of course). Looks an absolute bargain for £7m.
Although I’m in two minds about signing players liable to disappear to the Africas Cup at a crucial time of the season.
Öskar
Luis Enrique new Barca coach.
This is not going to get any easier for the Catalans now, and they would probably be entering the lean period of pre-Rijkard years with no Valdes, no Puyol, Xavi fading fast, no imposing center forward, Messi physically not quite at his best, the pressing game gone…
TTG/Aussie & others, Sagna almost certainly is not going to play as the RB in Man City, unless injury sidelines Zabaleta. He would be used most likely as an upgrade over Demichelis in the CB role in more important matches especially in Europe. City’s central defense is actually very suspect (Kompany himself is not at his best recently) and they know they won’t win the CL with what they have. To them it is worth the money as they would also be able to lose Micah Richards (Sagna as a back up RB) and save on his wages.
Serge Aurier would be a great signing if we complement that by getting a top level DM so that the fullbacks can feel more confident about staying up and attacking. For all his silky passing and tactical maturity Arteta’s lack of pace makes us hesitant in attacking down the flanks as we become more vulnerable to fast counter attacks.
Arteta has done very very well for us, reverting back to his pivote role of earlier years and not the number 10 with which he had excelled in Everton, and he has been a great influence in terms of discipline and composure and organization, but I think to win PL or CL we need a faster DM. Arteta should of course stay to guide that new player — unless we are getting YaYa, which we are not — in the PL and in Arsenal set-up, and play as a high-quality midfield option to rotate the first choice DM or Rambo, but we need a different DM.
The closest comparison — but of superior quality — to Arteta’s playing as the pivote is Pirlo, and it is worth noting that Pirlo’s best performance came with Gattuso in Milan by his side and now Pogba in Juve. Pogba had a very good season and Juve had clearly stated that if big money offers come for him they would sell. I know he is ManU bred, but I think he will be quite fantastic for us if we are to get him.
How Aurier matches up:
http://www.squawka.com/news/serge-aurier-vs-the-premier-league-and-worlds-best-right-backs/111906
Hey all, in case you haven’t seen it yet, here’s a link (I saw it on the Arseblog) to a gallery of photos of gooners worldwide basking in FA cup glory. Really brings it home to you. World a look:
http://imgur.com/a/4IpFG#jsG1iaN
Also, I just finished watching this. Serge Aurier assists/goals from last year at Toulouse. I have to admit, on this evidence I’m impressed. Looks powerful, very skillful, some great crosses in there, bullish headers as well. Carries himself with loads of confidence for a 21 year old. Though I admit I share Oskar’s concerns re: the African Cup of Nations.
See what you think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN__tVJUZwY
Worth* a look @161 obviously
Nous avons gagné la coupe.
Ca c’est vrai, 8 boule!!
Merde escargot filet bordeaux burgundy champagne rhone sauternes oui non.
That’s about the extent of my French (not true, but that’s about all I use).
Aurier sounds like he has huge potential. My only concern is that most defenders take several years to learn the positioning, timing, space, etc. to be a great defender. It seems like mid-20s is when defenders seem to mature to the subtleties of the position. I am less concerned about the ACN as we have a quality backup if Aurier were to be the number 1 RB.
Since we are stepping into the silly season, and we all know Arsenal needs another striker, I was curious to know what others at the bar think about converting Ox to a striker. If he were to learn to be a better finisher (i.e. spend time hanging with Rambo), imo he has all the qualities to be a Suarez-like finisher without all the biting, diving, and racism. He is about the same size as Suarez and has pace, touch, one-on-one skill, and can strike with either foot.
Ntep showing what sportsmanship does not look like https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8192955136/hAB1DE530/ and to think we have been linked with this man..
TTG
Thank you for the much needed perspective on Aurier??
ECG, converting Ox as a striker is something me and Dr. Faustus have been propagating since January. He has all the qualities to play there, speed, technique, dribbling, strength, power, shooting abilities. He runs into channels, can use both feet, can create something out of nothing, can bring others into play.
That role suits him more than the midfield one, even more then his role as a winger, IMHO.
I just had a quick glance through the transfer rumour websites.
Seems we’re linked to nearly everyone on the market, and many of our ex-players.
So far we’re “in for”:
Aurier, Benzema, DiNatale, Vela, Fabregas, Song, Milner, Cech, Ashley Cole, Yaya Toure, Mandzukic, Schneiderlin….
It’s going to be a long summer
ecg, Lurky – The Ox for a nimble footed striker will do for me too. The qualities are surely there and the transition from wing play to central striker is not alien to Arsene.
Will be interesting to know what the boss thinks though.
CoR@170. You missed the funniest rumour – Adel Taarabt. I kid you not.
Time to go into hibernation.
Back in August.
Enjoy the warmer weather, those in the Northern Hemisphere.
Enjoy the skiing in the Southern.
Remember your umbrella in India.
COR
It’s going to be even longer considering Wenger has stated that there will be no activity before the world cup is over. 😉
Morning all.
Who won the cup?
Sweet dreams dk.
‘holic@174 – …and we always believe what the press report Wenger has told them about transfers.
Sorry Pangloss
it was town not Holic
@172, 174: Or after? 😉
My point was that Wenger told the press. But I get what you are saying. Believe me I do. 😉
I find it very interesting that Wengers back up team have all being given 2 year contracts and logically, one presumed, that this too would be the length of Wengers new deal.
But to give him a three year contract (as muted) would seem to suggest a few things per chance:
Could it be that the final year will be a transition year whereby Wenger will stay and allow the new manager to put his own back room team together with Wenger handing over the reins…….?
Or could the rumours about Bould moving on to Albion be true? If this is the case, then could it be that Wengers next number 2, will in fact be the successor?
Very interesting indeed, but I definitely believe it has something to do with succession planning because this will certainly be Wengers last contract I feel. And if this is the case, then it goes to prove how shrewdly Gazidis & Co operate because this is the safe and intelligent way to manage that transition compared to say with the hysterical and classless fiasco in Manu.
Sorry for the misleading info 😉 Spometimes my locations go skiwhiff and then errgh poghk!!
I think hibernation is in order for me too.
Catch up on reading and all that.
How is that new book blogs and Andrew Allen wrote?
Gents
Not had much of a chance to post in the last few days as have been busy trying to peel myself down off the ceiling.
Don’t think I’ve ever been more proud to be a Gooner – that was worth all nine years and then some!
Just wanted to say a massive thank you to the guvnor for this place.
In the last nine years it’s been a total sanctuary in times of crisis; a place where you can some and see actual sense being spoken about the Arsenal when others are losing their heads, and a place where I’ve had the privilege to meet some fantastic people who I’m proud to call my friends.
Far too many amazing moments from the weekend to even begin recounting them, but suffice it to say that there were three that stood out for me:
(i) 250,000 Gooners swelling the streets of North London to celebrate together, while millions of others joined the party worldwide;
(ii) Aaron Ramsey, the former whipping boy of the gloom mongers, scoring the winning goal in the FA Cup final, then lying flat on the turf like Charlie George. Love the way that after all the other players clear off he lies there for another second or two, his chest heaving up and down and his eyes closed, just drinking it in; and
(iii) Arsene Wenger. The man. The legend. The look on his face as he lifted the trophy to the heavens. He has his faults, but anyone who tries to suggest he doesn’t care can do one: the geezer lives and breathes this club more than any of us and my god he earned this moment.
Big love to all in the bar: here’s to a beautiful moment when we all find ourselves on the same page, and are reminded that far, far more unites than divides us.
COYG
I hear you N7
Victoria Concordia Creset 🙂
Hey, Dr Feelgood,
Goonertown reminds me that Ivan, having heard about your fence painting skills, wants to change the club motto to
Victoria Concordia Creosote. 😉
So Man Utd have appointed van Gaal to try to Gaal-van-ise their faltering squad.
Good luck, with that one. I could be wrong but van Pursey would seem to have a natural ally in van Gaal, which may not leave Mr Rooney as the top dog in the pack, and we all know how much he likes that.
Interestingly, if not predictably, the radio pundits all seem to think that Utd will be challenging next season, not just for a top four finish but for the title itsself. They are not, however, jumping to the conclusion that it will be Arsenal who drop out of the top four should that turn out to be true.
Personally, I think Liverpool will be the team to drop out as Europe and Steeeeve Gerraaard’s age take their toll.
Does it start soon again ….. ? 😉
Trev agreed mate.
Utd will replace Liverpool with the 7th placed race (see what I did?) and vice versa.
We will become stronger and with any luck they will lose Luis. Now must be the time to release poor Stevie from captivity and give him his long lost life back. 😆
Cheers ‘H. Many thanks for a top report and for anothrr season of top blogging.
What can I say that hasn’t been said already? A weekend that began with a meet up at Wembley Pk at half twelve saturday lunchtime and only ended at 11.30 Sunday night in the tollie.
Wonderful, wonderful stuff.
Cheers ‘Holics. Enjoy.
Gandalf and Sherlock are gooners! http://t.co/eprSfDzTw5
Nice one N7.
Heh @ Trev for Gaal van ise.
Aurier looks useful in the video highlights, GHL. Thanks for posting. Reminded me a big of Eboue without the clowning. Would certainly be a threat from corners; that is a lot of Ivorian he gets behind those headers. A bit surprised by, for a right back, how much time he spent in the opposition’s penalty area.
G7@183: Well said.
I can hardly remember how the 9 years passed. May the long nightmare end for good, for gooners.
Joe @180 – great observation – I think you may be right.
N7 @183 – fine sentiments
Trev @186 – get back on that treadmill, fella 😀
tabs @188 – baboon livers for emergency hepatofiltration going cheap at London Zoo this week. ;s
Happy Birthday YAYA!
Now come to Arsenal!
http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1827438/agent-claims-manchester-city-shown-yaya-toure-disrespect
😀
Oh dear Oh dear.
Just read an article, not going to link it, on the Daily Fail from Adrian Dum dum, on how we don’t deserve Ramsey, what an utter plank.
@H2H
Hahahahahaha!
Just read the article. What a mug!
Great to see the haters scrambling for an angle. You can’t even be angry about it, just got to laugh.
What’s everyone’s wish list for Arsene’s next and most likely final three years at the helm?
My relatively realistic (the quadruple every year is too much of a fantasy 🙂 ) wish list:
a. At least one CL trophy.
b. One pair of back-to-back PL titles.
c. And one more FA Cup, which would make him the manager with most FA Cups (6) and would be one of those records that in these trigger-happy times of manager firing would be very difficult to replicate.
d. And a great succession plan, showing the world how to manage changing of the guards gracefully and with class.
A little ambitious, I know, but I think it is possible.
H2H
Does this guy really exist? I mean, never in my life would I let people know my real name or have a picture of myself next to an article where I totally give away myself as a complete idiot 🙂
Wishes for Arsene’s final three years?
One league title or Champs League win.
If he gets either of those in the next three years, I think he will totally cement his legend. To win virtually everything, then spend the best part of a decade with no dough while paying off a stadium, then come back and win a major, major trophy, with oil clubs for competition? That would be absolutely huge.
It’s a really good sign that it’s taken him precisely one season of having had actual money again to win us a trophy. But I don’t think we should take it for granted that more will immediately be on the way. It’s going to be a real scrap, but hopefully the lads are up for it.
COYG
Oooh that was accidental!
Well, I’ll celebrate it anyway 🙂
Wishlist for the next three years?
Same as it ever was……..:
Be the best we can be.
Well in Datsyuk, but I’m afraid that N7 will be awarded it when the dubious goals and odious cunt removal comittee come in. 😉
N7@ 201: Excellent points. I think more than the ability spend — which is vital, of course — it is the ability to retain the nucleus of the team that will be so important. As you and others have so succinctly explained many times, Arsene’s playing philosophy and system work best with a well settled team (if not the largest squad) of mutually familiar faces. This was the first season we didn’t lose anyone important and added just one bit of excellence (who had his expected first season blues), and it is no coincidence we looked so much more better. I still think if we had both Theo and Rambo fit for the second half of the season we would have been fighting for the PL in the final weekend. This is why I think key additions are important, but not replacements.
Despite all the criticisms that Ozil, Santi , Jack, Giroud et al. had received at different times of the season, I think they all played crucial roles at various stages of the campaign, and whereas more consistency would be expected out of the first three and more quality out of Giroud in next season, I think their mutual understanding with Rambo (and Theo, Ox and TR7 in the few matches they played) would even get better next season and with a bit more depth and variation our attack would compete with anyone’s in PL.
H2H@ 203: Well, that is more like a principle (and an excellent one) and less of a list. 🙂 But I understand what you meant.
N7: good to see you back commenting, have missed your always sane and positive words. How nice was this win this weekend, eh?
@Dr F
Agree with all of that – well said!
@ Peter
Cheers for the kind ones. This weekend? Absolutely amazing – couldn’t have asked for better. An easy 5-0 win wouldn’t have given us a moment as perfect and cathartic as Ramsey rattling in that winner. Finally, some proper pay off for all that zen! 🙂
I keep re-watching the highlights from Saturday, just to double check that it actually happened.
My wish list? That Boss gets to shove it up the respective you know whats of the likes of Maureeen, Durham and the rest of them. Is it too much to ask?
If Arsene wants to stick it to Maureen he may need to be quick about it.
Get off to a slow start and the specialist in failure and bus parking could be gone by Xmas.
I was thinking of the 3 goals…Santi’s – wonderful technique, Koscielny’s – scrappy, Ramsey’s – pure Arsenal, and for those anti-Giroudistes out there, without Giroud, we would not have won the cup…Ramsey had been missing a couple, but the back heel was super to set up the one touch finish
N7: agreed, coming from 2-0 down to get the victory means so much more in many ways
I haven’t seen the match yet, waiting for me when I’m back in London next week, but, apart from the 2 first goals, did Fab have to make any other saves during the match? I see on the highlights that there were 2 incidents in the final minutes – 1st, as ‘Mrs Woo’ on Arseblog says, when he goes out walking to Watford lol, and then a cracker shot from the Hull player straight at goal in the dying minutes. But did Hull threaten our goal in the rest of the 110 minutes?
Peter @ 211: Well I am a bit of a Giroudist — and not unlike the Girondists of history have been put under the ‘virtual’ guillotine a few times 🙂 — and I think some of his assists and finishing have been technically top class. Very best. The thing that goes against him is his lack of pace, which make him also hurry some of his finishings , and hence the missed chances.
He needs a complementary partner in the strike force who is very fast. Theo and him had established a good rapport last season. And I think we need one more player like that to add depth and variation. And I think Sanogo can be Giroud’s back-up as well as when in need of old fashioned 4-4-2 his partner.
Peter @ 212: There were a few long distance shots by Huddlestone but none on target, and after the second goal there was another set-piece in which Fab was rooted to the spot but Gibbo saved the day with a goal-line headed clearance, but other than that I don’t recall any chances.
The dying minutes walkabout was genuinely scary. He didn’t need to do that as Kos with his excellent pace would have that covered. I think the instinct to trust your defenders gets better more you play with them. Szczesny has improved so much partly because of the consistency of the back four and he now instinctively knows when to be more adventurous and when to trust the defenders.
Thank you Dr. F – yes, I did see the goal line clearance of Gibbs, horrible if that had been a 3rd goal! Somehow I feel more sad that Fabby could leave us, than Bac. Much as I like him and his hair, we will never pay him 150K per week, so if he can get it, then he should go and enjoy. But, Fabby, would be good to have him around 🙂
I feared that might happen H2H.
No prob, I’ll celebrate with N7. Fine man who writes a lot of really good stuff 🙂
By the way, your wishlist could very well end up in more trophies to celebrate.
Never stop to believe!
Fabianski is probably correct that he is good enough to be a first choice keeper somewhere and he is right to give it a go otherwise he may get frustrated as he is, imho, clearly not as good as SZCZ. SZCZ is also going to improve more in the next few years.
We have to replace him prudently. It has been clear that he was going to leave so hopefully there’s a plan.
Re Fabby.
Didn’t think he had the best game on Saturday, maybe not really a fault for the goals, especilly the first one, although he may of done better with the second. He wasn’t really a presence when crosses came in, doesn’t command the box like Woj (who is by far the superior keeper), he was in no mans land when Gibbs headed off the line.
God only knows what was going through his noggin when he rushed out in the dying minutes of extra time, I had to shovel out my boxers after that I can tell ya. Fairs fair, he had some sterling performances through the rounds, in the final he did make a few decent stops and we won so all is well, but personaly I would of prefered Woj to start.
I do believe he is good enough to be a starter although not at a club as big as Arsenal.
Bath, you are right about Fab. As with Don Vito, you can’t really blame him for wanting to play first-team football. Given Woj’s age, moving on is his only real option.
Re: Giroud. He is the piece that makes Ozil, Ramsey and Theo more than the sum of their parts, and vice versa. Take away someone to supply him with passes, someone to run in behind him to take his lay-offs and back-heels, or to burst with pace beyond the opposition defense to latch onto his knock-ons, and he looks half the player he actually is. And without Giroud, they do. Take the point about his pace, but he has strength and height in a team not overly endowed with either when attacking. As others above have said, we need to acquire a complement to him, not a replacement.
Nice that we can relive Saturday over the summer. One observation is that we are much less confident when the opposition is crossing with Fabianski in goal . BFG and Kos were noticeably less secure on Saturday and the extraordinary late dash exemplified his major fault- judgement. It can’t be easy coming into a side intermittently but that could have been horrendous . I thought Gibbs in panic was going to put it into his net.
Just afterwards Fab made a really difficult save low down to his right look much easier than it was
For those who still believe Man City can lawyer themselves out of FFP:
The European Commission has said it is rejecting the legal challenge to Uefa’s Financial Fair Play rules – effectively upholding the rules.
(Tweeted by David Conn, writer for the Guardian.)
And meanwhile the insensitivity of the $hitteh owners to their employees’ personal needs for affection are causing a crack in the colossus that the Sheikh has so expensively built:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypsEW7oafjE&feature=youtu.be
Seems money ain’t enough.
Bad news for Arsenal:
http://www.sincearsenallastwonatrophy.co.uk/
but then there’s also this:
http://www.haveyoueverseentottenhamwintheleague.com/
From Lettraggad n the arses
A good read :
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/straight-arsquos-for-wenger-from-the-ultimate-number-cruncher-269020.html
Wolfie persuades Yaya to come to Arsenal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNokfVPsF1s&list=PL2F2C87ABCB4A6863
Evening all,
Sad to report Eduardo the iMac has joined the injured list and will need to visit the treatment room shortly.
I never realised what a pain it is doing everything by laptop. Hey ho.
At least we have a cup win to look back on 🙂
Sad news ‘holic, hope it’s not a 3 week diagnosis 😉
In compensation our Cup still runneth over!
Heh at Eduardo the iMac. I suspect that defines his vintage. Otherwise I would have recommended christening him Olivier.
ned@218, agreed completely. i actually thought sanogo complemented giroud very well, both are fairly mobile over the pitch, even if giroud isn’t particularly fast. his turn for that last shot was pretty good, taken as he was falling. sanogo was doing all the right things, his technique at speed was letting him down. a summer to work with the squad, some league cup and early fa cup games under his belt, plus the occasional foray into 4-4-2, and that sharpens up. playing the two of them together could thus be even better.
and a fun read:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/arsene-wenger-shows-you-just-how-great-it-feels-to-end-a-nine-year-trophy-drought-041537398.html
sorry about eduardo, ‘holic. betcha when he gets back he hits a volley with the outside of his left heel to score…
If you want a real giggle listen to the first half of this:
http://talksport.com/football/classic-daily-arsenal-piers-morgan-backs-redknapp-manager-and-rocky-rocastle-tribute?
Bath @222 pt 2,
How is anyone in football still sane ? 🙁
Fabianski, Szczesny and Almunia have all been very good shot stoppers but very poor at decision making.
Thankfully Szczesny seems to be ridding himself of his madder moments, but you do have to ask what the goalkeeping coach(es) do, that all three have been so scatterbrained in the decision making department.
It was a pity for Fabby on Saturday that having looked much calmer and more assured this season, he found himself out on the touchline and could have presented Hull with such a late equaliser. That is never a great place for a goalkeeper to be.
Does anyone know what has become of Martinez ? Has he been discarded ?
trev, martinez was on loan at sheffield wednesday through the end of the year. i can’t find any information on what’s his status, other than that.
Waiting for my flight back to Minnesota at SFO airport having spent an emotional but good week with my Dad. A big week in my life in many ways including of course my visit to Wembley West aka the home of the Bay Area Gooners in North Beach only steps away from City Lights Books, Caffe Sport and many other San Francisco landmarks. It only happened at the last minute that I decided to go because my Dad’s cable package did not include the channel showing the cup final. But I certainly made the right decision to go as I was convinced by a great atmosphere and several delicious pints o’ Liffey Water not to mention the FA Cup final I will remember the rest of my days. Bittersweet but mostly a very sweet trip. 🙁 🙂
Eandy @ 140, thanks mate, and he’s a very worthwhile guy to meet 😉
Trev @ 143, thanks 🙂
Pangloss @ 152, batten down the hatches I say :p
bt8b, next time you come to visit your dad i’ll drive up. pints are on me. i hope he keeps doing well, and is working through his grief about your mom.
wind @234, just wait until he jumps into your arms at 5 am when arsenal score, after a couple bottles of guinness 🙂
Excellent reading one and all. Roll on August so we can do it all again, with a few of Dr F’s wish-list coming true.
I’m on record as saying I do not intend to die before Arsenal win the CL, and since (I believe) I am the oldest member of this band of bloggers our fat lady singer may well be warbling sooner than some think!
Öskar
Trev … the ‘G’ in Mijnheer van Gaal’s name is pronounced ‘H’, so he’ll more likely be trying to haalandaise their style… ie, turning Manure into total football shite.
Öskar
Oskar @ 237: If we can manage to get beyond the round of 16 I think our team will have enough motivation and now the hunger to make best use of their quality. The 08-09 team was not as consistent or resilient as this one and yet we managed to get to the semis, we need a run like that.
Wishing you a few decades of watching us win the CL, repeatedly. 🙂
NOT finding ourselves facing Barca or Bayern in the round of 16 would help, Dr F. Which means winning the group, not coming up short for no real reason.
Öskar
Oskar @ 240: Right. And then when we got Milan, no where comparable to any of the top Milan teams in their history, we refused to show up away at San Siro. That was a mind-boggling away recapitulation similar to this season’s thrashings.
Getting into the QF with more or less an intact squad I will now fancy our chances to go all the way. The motivation and the self-belief will play a big part. An Arsenal team with much less consistency, resilience, discipline and desire — if just a bit more quality in one or two positions — had almost derailed an excellent Barca team.
Martinez’s loan ends on May 31st, when he returns to Arsenal. He played 11 times for Wednesday but spent most of the second half of the season on the bench, which doesn’t seem the purpose of loans. He didn’t make the Argentina squad for the WC, not a surprise. My best guess would be that he spends next season as the No 3 behind Woj, depending who comes in to replace Fab. He is highly regarded at London Colney, but may face the Fab/Don Vito dilemma: it could be a long wait to succeed Sir Chez.
scruz @ 236, heh! Sounds like classic Snir 😆
I agree, Dr F. We just need the kind of luck we haven’t seen in recent years. We would have won it in 2006 but for Lehmann’s lunacy, and Pool actually did the previous year with a very ordinary squad. Anyone can win it when their stars align. Our stars tend to collide and limp off injured.
Öskar
Trev@231: I think this is a case of us seeing much more of our own keepers than others. All keepers have their occasional brain farts, but we don’t notice them as much as we don’t pay the same amount of attention to them. Lloris, for example, goes walkabout about three times a game (yes, that was a number taken right out of the air to make a point but he does run about a lot for no apparent reason 🙂 ) and we saw Boruc give away a goal to Giroud with his dribbling skills (or lack thereof, rather) at the Emirates etc etc. If you would look at every goal scored in the league this season I think the distribution of poor decisions would be quite even.
Morning guys
Some of you may already have heard because I have not yet back drinked, but Sports Direct have it on good authority that negotiations have re- convened between player,clubs and agent re; the summer signing of count Drax.
This one although quite public before seems to be incognito at present. As such I do not wish to blow this one by over publicising if you know what I mean. But sources say negotiations between all four parties are ‘positive’.
😉
Fingers crossed folks!!!
Anyway, a Hull mate of mine told me that when they went 2-0 up on the weekend, they froze in disbelief.
😆
Great video of my favorite Arsenal player along with Rosicky, Koscielny.
His defending is art. Such a boss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYgIrruOw2o
As I was bored, I was just looking up the teams we could get in CL qualifying next season, though this list will go down to five teams once the previous round is done:
Athletic Bilbao (but not if Zenit get knocked out in the previous qualifying round)
Lille
FC Copenhagen
Standard Liege (1994 flashback!)
Besiktas
Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
Panathinaikos
Feyenoord
Grasshoppers
Apoel/AEL Limassol
Teams we cannot get: Porto, Bayer Leverkusen, Napoli, Zenit
Hopefully we avoid the greeks and the basques Charlie 🙂
Charlie, to be honest I fancy anyone on that list mate. 😉
Meanwhile the scousers have to play either Barca, Bayern, Real or Athletico in their qualifier. 😆
Guess they can go on another PL run, only to be pipped at the finish line again, if they make it that far that is. 😆
Goonertown – does not them finishing second mean that they are straight in the group stage?
Talking of what we have missed because of injury: http://youtu.be/pyPB2XSwVX0
Looking at your list of potential CL qualifier opponents, Charlie, the least far east we have to travel the better.
Heh @ Oskar Haalandaise. 😉
Lars,
The distribution of poor goalkeeping decisions might well be quite even but I still think it has been a weakness of our keepers ( maybe in common with everybody else’s) compared to their shot stopping ability.
Woj, for example, is 6′ 5″ tall (that’s about 9 metres!) and has only begun to venture off his line for crosses with any sort of authority this season. Fabby’s early Arsenal performances were riddled with Keystone Cops moments and don’t even start on My Pal Al.
Eandy:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10841876/Liverpool-face-daunting-Champions-League-draw-after-being-confirmed-in-Pot-3.html
Oh you meant that they are probably going to have tough group? Then yes, I believe Charlie listed possible teams for our playoff qualifier to reach group stage.
Eandy,
As I understand it, any teams within the premier league who finish 1-3 automatically qualify for the groups without a play off. Then once teams reach the groups, the two clubs who finish top would then qualify for the knock out phase and so on.
😉
Goonertown: Yes, Liverpool might get a tough group but they are already in the competition. Technically, we are not in the competition as yet because we have a qualifier to play due to our fourth place finish.
Erm, Trev….isn’t 9 meters actually 29.5 feet ??????
‘holics, according to the Daily Faily, Arteta’s contract is also not confirmed? Any thoughts on if he should leave?
on another note, for a newbie like me, has winning the FA cup given us any leg up in Champions League?
Impec1 indeed.
By finishing 4th we have qualified for the play-off round of the competition. This just means that after two matches we can be out before the group stages.
Judging by the list of who we could face, being knocked out is unlikely, but possible. It is not a given.
No Bayonne – not according to how Wolfie measures things anyway. 😉
It was just a little joke. 😉
Not sure I exactly buy the link here between tactics and injuries, but there may be something (a little) to it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2014/05/20/how-spanish-underdog-atletico-madrid-shocked-the-soccer-world-with-its-version-of-moneybol/
I really don’t buy the argument that our injury record over the past season and quite a bit longer is due to bad luck although there has been some of that.
This is a (very) rough proxy for the decision making of goalkeepers, but if you look at the Squawka defensive performance scores for goalkeepers (which include shot stopping as well as interceptions &c, which it is why it is a rough proxy), then of keepers who played at least 25 EPL games last season, only Mannone, with 24.75 points, gets above the 10-20 points per game score that Squawka says represents an average match performance.
Thereafter it is:
Szczesny 18.84
Cech 18.12
Howard 16.75
Speroni 15.92
Hart 15.29
Begovic 14.19
Boruc 14.18
Jaaskelainen 11.56.
Below average:
Lloris 7.81
de Gea 6.43
Guzan 6.00
Mingolet 5.84
Ruddy 1.76
Krull 0.61
McGregor 0.20
Marshal -0.84
Vorm -1.19
If you rerank by total score, which includes distribution stats, then only Mannone, Woj and Howard score more than 20.
If you repeat the exercise for the big five European leagues, then 13 regular keepers get an average total game score of above 20. Top four are Neuer, Buffon, Ospina (Nice) and Barca’s new signing ter Stegen. Mannone is 9th and Woj 10th. (Mannone is 2nd overall on the defensive performance ranking; Woj 10th. Ospina top.
A tentative conclusion might be (a) that there is a lot of average keeping in the Premiership and some downright dodgy keeping in places, and (b) Don Vito was better than we remember.
MF: some issues with the Washington Post article on Atletico:
Isn’t the conventional wisdom that sides without the ball eventually tire themselves out chasing it? Playing deep and parking the bus doesn’t strike me as a way to rest players — even if Atletico were masters at not getting themselves pulled out of shape?
I’d like to see the stats on how many fouls are committed against Atletico in the final third. Barca and RM attackers are more likely to get fouled around the outside of the penalty area if they are facing bus parkers as they will be most games. So they will get disproportionately more free kicks in those areas and take more long shots as a result (especially if you have Bale and Ronaldo to take them).
The link between playing a narrow 4-4-2 and avoiding injury seems tenuous to say the least. Simone might have played so many of his squad for full games because he had no options, prefers a stable team to rotation, or was disinclined to make tactical adjustments via substitutions during a game. Costa has been played into the ground even more than Giroud, and has the niggling injuries to show for it.
Ned@265, shouldn’t an alarm bell go off when youo see that, out of a field of 20, only 1 performs better than the average?
Goonertown
Mate I have a rule not to take anything seriously that Football Direct, part of the Ashley stable , state. They are notoriouslyy unreliable and while Wenger is as good a judge of young horseflesh as any I’m not sure that Draxler is worth his buy- out price
Ned,
Interesting as usual. My personal point was that our last three keepers have all been very good shot stoppers but poor decision makers, which, of course, the stats don’t distinguish.
Lurky,
Cool vid on Kos. Despite the fact that I think he goes to ground a little too much – those tackles on Drogba and Torres (chavski version) are epic. Love the one on that cheating queen Robben too!
In my dusty, krusty mind I recall a tackle Kos made on Torres (Liverpool version) in his first season. At the emirates I think. Torres tried to go around him and Kos picked his pocket like a thief in the night. Ever since then, I’ve thought – yep, the boss found another gem.
@268′ me neither I rather go for reus than Draxler. The buy-out clause for both of them are pretty close. I really like reus, don’t know if Dortmund will be willing to sell him after losing lewandonski to Bayern.
Its odd though.
I keep thinking, hey – won the FA Cup, huge, huge result but its time to think about next season. Possible squad changes. Who can replace Sagna (and more importantly, his do) (and I still say no one!). The world cup and all that.
But I keep going back to the club website and rewatching the highlights! And the videos of the players and the boss. And then I think, oh … what the hell. There’s still time to wallow in it!
homer, i’ll be wallowing in it all summer. i taped the game, and watching ramsey’s goal in slow motion over and over last night while sipping an optimator was such pleasure. splendorific stuff 🙂
WE SIGNNED ANUONE YET OR WHATT?!?!?!?!
THEARE IS NOTIME YOU MUGSS, ALLTHE TEAMS SIGGNED WORLDCLASS PLAYER WHATS ARE WAGHNER WAITINN???????
WAGNER AAACHHTHT!!!
Peter @ 261: Arteta I think has one more year left. The question is how far longer we would be willing to sign him for.
Our FA Cup victory simply means Hull also gets a test of Europe, directly into Uefa group stages as we have already qualified for CL. It gives us no advantages, we still need to go through the qualifying round.
Pangloss @ 267: Depends on the averaging technique being used. It could be the mode, the most appearing value/range, and not the mean or the median. Unless the distribution is a Gaussian one, modes can be widely different than means.
Avoid Bilbao in the qualifiers and we should be fine.
I think that this year it is finally a time for some lucky draw both in qualifiers and later in the groups.
I would not mind better disposition of the PL fixtures either. Not playing top 6 club away after CL fixture would be a nice start. Not playing four top 6 clubs one after another would be even better.
Dr. F.: You are right about Arteta’s contract. Runs to June 2015, by which time he will be 33.
Pangloss, perhaps baseline performance would be a better word than average for a Squawka performance score of 10-20. Without being able to see the underlying data and algorithm, I am uncertain exactly what is being measured. I also looked at the 2012-13 season’s numbers and they looked so much better than those for the season just ended I wondered whether the methodology had changed rather than goalkeeping standards deteriorate. I also suspect that busier goalkeepers do better on these scores than those with strong back fours in front of them, at least on the defensive scorings. Long and short of it is that the numbers should be treated circumspectly, but they probably give a decent directional sense of which keepers did better than others.
Trev: got your point. Making even a stab at isolating the decision making, let alone its quality, would be difficult statistically without a raw Opta feed for the monks to play with. But just on the basis of casual observation, Woj looks better at that this season than last. Fab was always a bit dodgy in that respect. And don’t get me started on Almunia…
btw, Wolfie goes the full 9 meters????
Dr F.: From Squawka’s FAQ — “Players who have had an average game over 90 minutes can expect a score of between 10 and 20 points.” Hope that clears it up.
Dr Faustus,
as seems to be the current mode with all these numbers, I have no idea what you mean.
Sorry – I know I make a fairly average co-median. 😉
Going back a couple of hours, I seem to remember making a fairly general observation about our keepers’ decision making in comparison with their shot stopping.
Somehow that turned into a debate about modes, medians, averages, and Gaussian distribution !
Good job I didn’t say anything complicated ! 🙁
Oskar.
the ‘G’ in Mijnheer van Gaal’s name is pronounced ‘H’……
No it isn’t.
…….but, heh @ Haalandaise.
Doc Faus’
I’m afraid I have to correct you too. Hull are not straight into the group stages of the Yourhopeless league, they would of been if they had won, but as runner up they take the place that Spertz would have had, meaning our neighbours go up a ranking. Hull have to qualify and will probably play their first game the day after tomorrow………
Well Ok, not that early, but quite a while before the season starts, July 31st to be exact, in the 3rd qualifying round, Totts in the 4th and final, Everton in the Group stages.
Trev @ 280/281: Apologies for the pedantic explanations, was simply trying to answer Pangloss’s question.
However, and some of us might find this unfortunate, the statistical analysis of performance has now indeed become a part of the perspective through which sport is viewed at. Arsene and Arsenal themselves make much use of it in scouting, in analyzing individual performance etc.
About our keepers’ decision making, I am with NBN that against the context of all goalkeepers it is not as bad as we perceive to be. Szczesny, this season particularly, has been quite excellent. IMHO, neither Almunia nor Fabianski are top level PL keepers because of their unease with flighted deliveries. However each of them had suffered due to poor collective defending over the years. This is where Szczesny and our more or less stable and well-organized current defense complement so well now. Goalkeeping greatness comes out of stability and experience. Szczesny could become one if provided both. He has the talent, the attitude and the right amount of madness which for a while would occasionally manifest into strangeness in decision making.
H2H @ 284: Thanks a lot.
After I wrote that I thought to myself maybe I am missing something there, then I thought nah Wigan went directly into group stages, then I thought maybe my recollections are faulty, and I felt too lazy to look it up. 🙂
Thanks for straightening me up. 🙂
H2H, so you are basically saying that by winning the FA Cup we did a favour to the Tots?
Was Wagner aware of that? And if yes, why didn’t he allow Hull to beat us it was a only stinky Cup after all? Waghner OUT!!!!
Such a terrible shame that our silver ware victory carries the cloud that means the Marshdwellers gain a round in the Eurhopeless League. 🙁
NBN @ 279: Thanks. A baseline score would be close to the mode in an asymmetric enough distribution.
Good pont about keepers Lars.
Thanks for those stas Ned, but as far as keepers are concerned I prefer the old seeing is believing adage and I judge from what I have seen with my own eyes.
Keepers lower down in the league are always going to have more to do then their conterparts at the top of the league, so a keeper like Marshal will have a high amount of saves, so stats can be twisted.
From what I’ve seen this season, and I do believe I’ve mentioned it before, I can’t understand why Lloris is so highly rated, the guy is an accident waiting to happen, how he’s managed to stay on the field in a couple of games this season is beyond me. Total lunger and I’m pretty sure he’s handled outside the box on a number of occasions this season too.
Another keeper that used to look okay but was well below par imho was Mignolet, an okay shot stopper but that’s about it. No command of his box, poor decision maker and absolutly shocking at distribution. Lucky for the Mickey’s that they have a lethal frontline because he is an extreamly shaky last line of defence.
De Gea seems to prefer to save with his feet, Howard is ok for Everton, will always be a Man U reject though. With Hart you never know what you’re going to get. I do rate Cech although I think his best years are behind him. So all things considered I think we can count ourseves lucky with our glove butler Sir Woj of Shezny.
Doc Faus.
That’s “straightening me OUT”
we’ll get folks wondering otherwise. 😉
Heh @ Bath and Lurky.
Yep amatuer move by Arsene that. Still it’s only a couple of Thursday nights the Tinys will have free, there’s still a whole season of visiting places whose names doesn’t contain a vowel. 🙂
Apologies to all gooner residents of vowel impaired places.
So H2H, its Fan CHCHCHCHCHCH(clears throat)aaaaaaaaaalllll, is it?
That would be closer Bath, yeah.
Rapid Ghidighici, FC Sfîntul Gheorghe Suruceni, FC Belshina Bobruisk, HŠK Zrinjski, Chernomorets Burgas, FC Vysočina Jihlava, FC Vestsjælland, Stoke City F.C., ÍF Fuglafjørður
One of those I guess?
H2H @ 291: I thought your English is not that good. 🙂
As I had suspected, there is a deeper reason for you choosing to use “I should of” instead of “I should have”. 🙂
Think of the Och, in och aye.
Or, indeed, a clear your throat G sound, a kind of grrrr, but softer.
Phonetically the closist I can think of would be van Gaaarrrl.
Not to worry, he’ll soon be refered to as “that cunt” by all and sundry. 😀
How could I forgot Spartaki-Tskhinvali Tbilisi, FK Ventspils, FC Etzella Ettelbruck, Podbeskidzie Bielsko-Biała and Mezőkövesd-Zsóry SE is still beyond me.
Funny names those Lurky.
That Stoke City cracks me up, imagine having a name that stupid.
AAAaaaaarooooon Raaaaaaaaamseeeeeeeeeyyy!!!!!!!
I wondered myself H2H to be honest, so I double checked and it’s for real, somewhere exist a club with such a stupid name as Stoke City.
H2H, straight red for self assist.
H2H — also, straightening someone up is indeed used to denote correcting someone or something.
About Lloris and others, I think an often overlooked aspect of goalkeeping is that a consistently great GK needs a consistent and reliable defense. And vice versa.
Lloris is a very good shot stopper and has good distribution. His understanding with the defense is non-existent because that defense is a bit of a mess. He would look much better fronted by better technique and organization in the back four. And it is always much harder to excel the the keeping role when your team is seeing more of the ball, which the Spuds tend to do against most opposition.
Take Vito for instance, he performed admirably for Sunderland especially towards the end of the season. But the thing that went in his favor was he didn’t need any additional effort to be always on and concentrated, he was being involved so frequently that it was almost like training ground practice and hence there was no lapse in concentration, which is where the bad judgments start.
Good read : http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20140521/fa-cup-final-diary-of-a-special-day .
In the post-goal picture I really loved the jubilation on Gibbo’s face, running with Rambo. His miss would have tormented him and probably set him back a bit if we had managed to lose it somehow.
Gibbo’s fitness and consistency has been one of the positives of this season. A few more goals and assists — he so often gets in those right positions — and we will have a great LB in making.
A bit harsh that Lurky, it’s a yellow at best, still Aaron got the winner, we won the cup, the seasons over, I’ll take my punishment……
*takes off shirt and throws it into the crowd for good measure*
========
You’re probably right Doc.
It’s just that “straighten me up” has an extreamly high oo er missus ring to it.
Evening all.
Well, Saturday was quite fun wasn’t it? Well, except for the first 10 minutes. Not much to add really. It wasn’t the greatest ever performance was it but quite frankly, who cares? 2 poor bits of defending saw us 2 down, but as soon as Santi scored I must say that I was not unduly worried. An FA cup final victory and it’s been priceless this week listening to twats in the media try and still have a pop at us.
Some interesting points above. Re Bacs. He is gone. He was probably gone months ago but like a true pro he has fought to the last. He deserves his medal for the effort he has put in here over the years. His contract is up and if he can get one big final pay day then good luck to him.
Re Flappy. It will surprise no one that I won’t be sorry to see him leave. We should have got shot of him years ago in my opinion. When I think back to the days of Almunia and Flaps fighting it out to be number one it still nearly sends me over the edge. If Shezza is the chosen one then we should sign an older, experienced campaigner who can not only act as back up but can also act as a mentor. Flappy never ever have less than 100% and I thank him for that, but his display on Saturday for me shows you why he is just not good enough.
I would just like to finish mentioning one man and that’s Tommy V. Not that long ago he was making PFA teams and was one of the first names on the team sheet. He was the natural choice to take over the armband after two acts of treachery. Injuries and the inspired form of Per and Kos have meant his appearances have been limited. To his eternal credit he has not moaned once. He has continued to write his prog notes and continued to represent the club with dignity. He has played when asked at either left back or in the centre. Not once has he moaned about it. He has just done his job. I for one was very pleased to see him go up those steps and lift the cup. I think it was well deserved.
Happy days. Now on to spend a few hundred million and strengthen where we need to.
Onwards and upwards.
H2H @ 305: Yes, especially in Amsterdam … 🙂
About the GK equation: would anyone want Vito back in the team as #2? Would Vito want to be back knowing he won’t get much of a chance in PL?
Who would be your preferred #2?
It would be great if we can somehow tempt someone like Casillas or Buffon as the #2 as well as mentor to Szczesny…this would be Gigi’s fifth world cup, Juve is already back on the top, can we not convince him for a nice easing into retirement and some PL experience to go with it?
Dr.F, I think that Gibbs has much more to offer in the attacking third than he is at the moment. As a winger in his young days, he has required skills, can dribble past opponent, can drift inside.
Maybe the lack of supportive winger up front of him is not doing favour for him showing his attacking abilities.
Lurky @ 308: Yes. But he has a good understanding with Poldi. I think a genuine left sided winger would help, but what would help more is (repeating myself) an upgrade with more pace over otherwise reliable Arteta. Someone who can quickly recover into defensive positions against counter attacks so that the full backs are more liberated.
Dr. F, fast and powerful DM to form a back three with the CB’s, so the fullbacks can act as wingers with more freedom, midfielders can drift inside and closer to the opposition third forming triangles in a 3-5-2 attacking formation?
Lurky @ 310, Exactly! A 2-1-5-2 formation where the DM can not only be the bulwark against the counter attacks down any flank but once recovered possession can relaunch the attack with purposeful strides forward and then releasing the fullback and the winger in that side that had threatened to counter-attack.
Later.
Steve T makes an excellent point about Tommy V. He has maintained real dignity in a difficult situation not once moaning to the media or slagging the club off when he returns to Belgium. A top man and much respected at the club.
Also to no- one’s surprise Draxler is now not interested in a move to Arsenal according to First Direct who a few hours earlier suggested we were on the way to tying up a deal. They rival the Star and Express for reliability. I think we’ve dodged an expensive bullet there.
Dr. F, there is one problem for us to play that type of attacking formation. In fact, two, but related one to another.
Playing with high line is the first one.
Mertesacker is the second. As much as I like him, he is to just to slow for any team that would like to play 3-5-2 as his side of the pitch would be to exposed for counterattacks.
That is why one of our fullbacks needs to stay back most of the time. And usually that fullback is Gibbs as Sagna is always more attacking minded of them both.
I must admit that I always find that strange, because it seems more natural for me Gibbs to go forward and stretch the play and Sagna to stay in defensive mode.
But, it clearly has something to do with playing Walcott when he is available, because Sagna has good partnership with him. But why not change when Theo is not available?
It’s miles back now but I hardly think ensuring the Spuds are automatically and definitely qualified for another season of Thursday night expeditions into the back of beyond is doing them a favour.
It is merely ensuring they will be in no fit state to challenge us, or anyone else, for the title for a 54th straight year.
WAGNER BACK IN !!!!!! 🙂
Trev. The day has officially changed names. It’s not Thursday, it’s Spursday.
And agreed about Tommy V.
Never the same after his plantaris problems, but a really good professional attitude despite his downturn in fortune.
A great example to one Yaya Toure who feels unappreciated and disrespected on £200,000+ per week, because the club didn’t wish him a Happy Birthday.
Oi vay !
Dr F. @289: definitely skewed.
H2H @290: Excellent summary of the state of glove butling in the Premiership this season past. I always thought Lloris looked a decent enough keeper when he was at OL Perhaps something nasty rubbed off on him in his present surroundings.
SteveT @ 306: Spot on about TV5.
Dr F @307: Either of Casillas or Buffon would be wonderful additions, but I doubt Casillas would go anywhere where he isn’t first choice, while Buffon is welded at the hip to Juve (and still at the top of his game). Don Vito left for first team football, so it would make no sense for him to return as a no 2. We need someone like, though not, Schwarzer at the bus stop; experienced and still good enough to replace Cech when needed but never an automatic first choice. Not sure there are many of those about.
Jaaskelainen maybe, NBN? He lost his starting place at West Ham, but is decent enough as a backup GK.
Seems a fairly simple question:
Who is good enough to come to Arsenal to mentor Szczesny, but bad enough that they can’t get into their own team any more ?
😉
We should have bought Schwarzer 3 years ago, or however long it was we were in for him.
Dr F above – apologies for not responding sooner. Thanks for reminding me that “average” shouldn’t necessarily be read as “mean”. My point though, I believe, stands.
If you have a distribution that results in 5% having “better than average” performance and 50% “worse than average”, then the definition of average that you are using is almost certainly completely inappropriate.
Thanks also to Ned for discovering the statement on the Squawka website that describes how they are using the term average. I had a quick look at the site and was interested in the figures that they showed but could find nothing to say what they were.
“People” tend naturally to pay more attention to a set of figures that assign numerical ratings to players than they do to a simple list that shows that A is better than B is better than C etc. Without a justification for the figures, they are no more use than someone’s opinion – maybe reliable, maybe not. I fear that I’d put Squawka in the latter category until proven otherwise.
I generally favour Fantasy League ratings; they may not tell you much, but at least you can work out what the tell you, and how important you think it is.
Great, great win. Of course we had to make things interesting but the fact is that we had 80 minutes get on level terms. Not easy to do mind you, no doubt.
Wenger really should get a lot of credit for going to a 4-4-2 with Sanogo. I thought, like many, that this was a risk, not only to win the match but to AW’s credibility. Put a guy on with no goals to his name was a reach. Plus we only played with a 4-4-2 maybe once this year. With that said, Sanogo really was a one man wrecking ball (all ass and elbows) in the middle of the park. Sure, Hull were gassed but you have to be able to take advantage of that and Poldi could not. Sure the addition of Jack and TR7 ultimately won the match for us with a final push but I give Sanogo big props for that performance (we still need an additional striker)….even though he may never score for us. Kudos to Wenger for making the change and having confidence in Sanogo…..he may know more than us after all…….
I could watch the goals and post match celebration over and over and over…..it is permanently on the DVR for future viewing. Congrats to all, we won the Cup.
Simple question, Trev, but does it have a simple answer?
Weren’t we talking about Schwartzer coming as the No 1 then, Steve T?
Jaaskelainen would be a good call, Lurky. And what about Maarten Stekelenburg? Got 50 caps for Holland but seems to have fallen off the face of the earth since going to Fulham.
I agree with your caution about Squawka, Pangloss. I have no doubt their heart is in the right place, their general statistical approach seems sound and thoughtful, and, as they say they use Opta data, the underlying numbers should be kosher. But without being unable to peer under the hood you can never be quite sure of what you are getting. As what is under the hood is their proprietary algorithm, they aren’t going to let anyone take a peek otherwise they would have nothing special left.
It doesn’t have a simple answer at all.
Noone who is still good enough to play is going to want to come and sit on the bench every week. And they do still need to be quite decent in case Woj picks up a long term – sorry, a three week – injury.
Schwarzer does still look ok, and if Courtois returns to Chelsea will find himself as No. 3 – or No. 2 ‘cos Cech would almost certainly leave in that case. So, probably no joy there in either event.
Hi holics – off topic question.
I have been watching the arsenal auctions online regarding signed arsenal player shirts 2013/14 season of various players.
Does anyone know if these are unique items or are signed player shirts quite common for the local uk market or local emirates fans.
The majority of pronunciations of van Gaal that I’m hearing from the intelligent media (if that’s not an oxymoron) have it much closer to ‘H’ than ‘G’, H2H. I had assumed it was a typical Dutch dorsal phoneme variant of the Proto-Germanic ‘g’ … a voiced velar fricative common to many languages, but not English although the ‘ch’ in loch is similar (when pronounced correctly).
I thought ‘H’ was close enough for our purpose here, but bow to your local knowledge.
Öskar
One part of the complex answer, Trev, is what is happening to Viviano. I know his loan was for only a year, but I’ve read we have an option of make it permanent. So would he he good enough, if he stayed, to be cover/competition for Woj with Martinez coming back to be the No 3? Or do we still need a father figure for Woj. If Lehmann is doing his coaching badges with us, perhaps he could fill that role, though come to think of it Woj probably already has a sufficiently high Jens quotient.
As for Squawka, I have no idea how they, or anyone else who quotes these incredibly detailed stats, comes up with them. It would take an army of scribes ticking a spreadsheet of boxes either in real time or watching vids, and I can’t believe there are that many people actively involved. Or that they could be doing it accurately anyway.
Usually you get a better idea of a player’s value simply by watching the game.
Öskar
Sir Ches has 29 and a half feet? I didn’t know that…
Öskar
Pangloss @ 321: “If you have a distribution that results in 5% having “better than average” performance and 50% “worse than average”, then the definition of average that you are using is almost certainly completely inappropriate.”
In averaging for random and very large dataset, yes you are right (distribution approximating Gaussian). But in cases of skewed distribution you may have meaningful ‘modal’ averages that can lead to exactly that type of distribution.
For instance, take the discreet number set: 1,2,3,4,5,9,9,9,9, 10. It’s mode is 9, 50% (5 out of 10) of the numbers are below mode and 10% (1 out of 10) of numbers are above mode. And then take the mean, which would be 6.1, but is that anymore of a true representation of the ‘average’ of that number set than 9?
For real life examples of something like a log-normal distribution demonstrates the relevance. It is used for economics and demographics analysis etc. … I am not really much of a statistician and someone better versed in the possible intricacies of the methodologies used by Squawaka (but as NBN said, there algorithms would definitely be private IP) may shed us more light about the statistical model being used.
Aussie @ 325: I don’t think signed shirts are ‘common’, but the locals can correct me. I have over the years bought a shirts from the Arsenal’s UK online store — and they had shipped to US, the Arsenal US store is generally poorly stocked — but haven’t seen signed shirts on sell. I am guessing they are generally made available in charity events and auctions etc.
I think there’s probably a chance that Courtois might displace Cech as number 1 at Chelsea, so Cech might be available.
@330: I meant ‘their algorithm’ … speaking of which these are two simple but instructive reads:
http://www.thebigdatainsightgroup.com/site/article/big-data-talk-004-mimicking-moneyball
http://www.theuksportsnetwork.com/squawka-sanjit-atwal-big-data-in-sport
On average 87 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot using one data point and assuming a skewed distribution in the users favor…
ecg@334: that is true only 46% of the time.
Cheers DrF- these items seem to be a special live auction that is happening now for signed new shirts and signed worn shirts from various games during the season
otd: that is exactly what Opta does. It has teams of people and machines collecting real-time data. Tons of it.
Dr F.: good reads, especially the one warning about falling into the trap of only managing what you can measure. Big data gives you insight, but the judgement is yours alone.
That’s more than teams, Ned, it would amount to armies to cover every player in first class football. And how accurate can it possibly be? Who decides, for example, whether an intercept reflects the anticipatory skills of a defender rather than the inaccuracy of whoever passed the ball? How many tackles are really stuff-ups by the guy in possession? etc etc.
Surely a good scout can watch the effect of 22 individual players in a match and draw equally valid conclusions. More valid in fact since scouts are hand-picked for their professional experience and analytical skills, not just their number crunching abilities.
Not questioning your opinions, Ned, just wondering. It seems to me to be another example of the world going slowly mad. 🙁
Öskar
Okay, I’ve now read Dr F’s links. And I’m STILL unimpressed. Sounds great as a way to defend your signing of a player who fails, but I can’t believe it has more merit than watching a player’s actual effect on a game.
At best perhaps ‘sabermetrics’ points to players you should watch? That Bean guy seems to have a talent, but I bet it’s as latent as it is numbers-driven.
Öskar
nbn@335: but the other 68% percent of the time the user invents a second data point to rationalize the distribution, so statistically there is very little difference.
otd: I’m in general agreement with you on a good scout over statistics. I think the boss has shown an ability to identify quality players that statistics may not rate high. On the other hand, statistics are probably a useful tool for evaluating players, provided it is not the only criteria. Plus they make for excellent starting conversation during the silly season.
Whatever happened to the good old days of evaluating players based on their size of their moustache?
Dr F, As a recovering mathematician I’m moderately familiar with the various different ways of calculating something from a set of other numbers that can be labelled as an average.
The point I have been trying to make regards the interpretation by the man in the street (who can no longer afford the fares required to sit on the top of the Clapham omnibus) of the word “average”. I believe he will interpret it to mean “around the middle”. If your chosen calculation generates something that isn’t “around the middle” of the set of numbers then it’s not useful, in general conversation and without any context, to describe it as their “average”. It’s not incorrect, it’s just not useful.
There may be completely legitimate reasons why you are taking a mode, or a median or whatever but given your dataset – 1,2,3,4,5,9,9,9,9,10 – it’s not helpful suddenly to come up with 9 as their “average”, even though it is, indeed, their mode.
Lies. Damned lies. And statistics.
A pint of Guassian please, Guvnor – sorry, Guinness. 😉
Half the time I think all these stats are brilliant and half the time they seem almost useless.
The other half I can’t be bothered to read them at all.
That last one may be a Gaussian half ?!?! 🙁
TTG
I like JD and think he would fit into the squad nicley.
SAG
I like Reus but I believe we don’t need him. I would rather JD because he’s young fresh and prosperous.
That’s just my opinion.
Re Ashley Direct they still maintain that a meeting took place between the clubs. They have released a quote they found in Bild where Drax says he wants to stay at Schalke for one more season. To be honest I have seen that quote before over the last few months. The latest news still stands that a positive meeting between the parties has taken place.
Well there goes my pact not to publicise
Fell for it hook line and sinker.
I will therefore retract my statement
Arsenal are not interested in Drax.
I agree with Lurky, we need to bid 50 millyun on Costa and faulty millyun on Jordan Henderson now!!!!
Great win for the team on Saturday and a boost for the club as a whole moving forward. How different things look from just 2 months ago. It has been a season of spikes in performance and emotion like few I can remember. Looked at a whole, I am reminded of BB10’s legends documentary where he talked about a team growing together and raising the ceiling of performance so that when they peaked they were within striking distance. This year has raised the team to the level of genuine title challengers and all around trophy winners.
I will fondly remember Ramsey this year as one of the stellar individual season’s in recent memory. If he can keep this level, Gibbs, Wilshere, AOC, Jenkinson can continue to grow around him and the core of BFG/Kosc at the back and Santi/Ozil in attack we will not be far away next time.
Big summer ahead for the club. DB10 also said how the 5 signings in 2001 lifted the whole squad, forced them to work harder for their place and generated expectation within the team. Oddly, only Sol really had an impact as a player, but the off-field boost was apparently tangible. We now need to add and also find more than just 1 player to contribute on the pitch.
Well done Arsene. Well done the team. Now on to the biggest prizes 🙂
UTA
Curious, but utterly understandable, how people think that it is outrageous that Yaya Toure is in a big sulk at Man €ity because they didn’t make enough fuss of his birthday.
It is, of course, totally stupid but not the real issue.
Toure has a long standing and very close relationship with his Ukrainian agent, Dimitry Seluk, who drove Barcelona barmy when Toure played there. It’s said his constant nagging of Guardiola was what led to Toure being put up for sale.
Having escaped the agent once, Txiki Begiristain now finds himself confronting the greedy Mr At-Least-Ten-Per-Cent again as director of football at Middle Eastlands, as the Ukrainian angles for extra riches as his client turns 31 years of age.
Another upgrade on Toure’s year-old already upgraded deal, or a huge birthday bonus would do nicely, and are the real point of the current silliness. If they are not forthcoming, who’s to say that Toure and Sulk – sorry, Seluk – would not seek one more big money move before he declares his Yaya’s out for good.
Ok, so what ?
Personally, I find the whole thing immensely funny, enjoyable and apt.
While most people seem disgusted with Toure’s behaviour, isn’t it just exactly appropriate for the club that employs him?
The owners waltzed into English football firing £50 notes (D Dein) at all and sundry, and flashed obscene amounts of money around while buying two Premier League titles in the last three seasons.
Well, Mr Toure and his agent took note (no pun intended) of all the money and now they are going to screw €ity for as much of it as they can get their hands on.
Enjoy it while it lasts …… 🙂
Data collection and analysis software is remarkably sophisticated these days, otd, certainly good enough to do in real-time as the sport-stats companies do. You need massive computing power to deal with these large and complex sets of data and machine analysis will only ever be as good as the rules written and assumptions made (by humans) to perform it, but big data has become such a huge business, and not just in sport, that there is now a lot of expertise in doing that. There will always be situations like the ones you describe that will require fine human judgement, but the more data you have the better you become at describing the exceptions and the less significant any one particular outlier becomes. Machines are able to find correlations and patterns in this sea of data that are beyond the capacity of humans to process at that scale and speed. But it takes a human to decide what matters and what does not. To my mind (you won’t be surprised to learn), statistical analysis is a useful tool for understanding the game and getting fresh insights, but it is not the be all and end all. And always remember what Bill Shankly once said, football is a simple game grown men make complicated.
You might enjoy reading Michael Lewis’s book Moneyball about how Billy Beane, general manager of the Oakland Athletics baseball team in the U.S., turned his low-budget team into champions beating out deeper pocketed rivals by using statistical analysis in recruiting players and in developing tactics for games. Oakland’s scouts said the same thing about their professional judgment as you raised, and Beane showed that the traditional measures of baseball skill could be questioned. (Beane was a not very successful player and scout before moving to the front office so I am not sure how latent his judgement was.) Arsenal was one of the first football clubs to adopt a similar approach, though thanks to big data, has kicked it up more than a notch. But, to ecg’s point, “statistics are probably a useful tool for evaluating players, provided it is not the only criteria.”
ecg: my confidence level in that number is ± -14%.
Shaft: Welcome back. We’ve waned not waxed without you.
Re Ya-Ya: Exactly, Trev. What goes around, comes around.
Sad to see Sagna go, but 90k a week too much let alone the 140k City reportedly paying.
No point playing a system with attacking full-backs if your full-backs can’t attack. Sagna has become a liability going forwards, can’t beat a man for pace or skill, even for a yard to cross. Link play is slow and teams are happy for us to feed him the ball where he can be stood up 25 yards from the goal as that’s as far his legs take him these days. (Lost a step since the 2 breaks, understandably.)
Great servant, sadly missed and one of our 5/6 best players of last 5 years, but would and should be no more than a squad player now. City being typical mugs if 3 years at that price true. Can’t see how he even gets games with Zabaleta, but that’s their problem.
Onwards and upwards. Younger, quicker, stronger.
Jenks and someone else to arrive and fight like mad for game time please. You need 2 players for every position, but also healthy competition. A bit of guile from the right-side would a huge help, especially at home.
UTA
Nice too see ‘The Breakdown’ on Arse dot com big-ing up the 4-4-2. More please Arsene 🙂
Puno,
Maybe City see Sagna as the ideal full back partner for Clichy in the reserves.
Before I get jumped on, I always admired Clichy for total effort but the poor lad just couldn’t concentrate.
356 – City set to piss league 1 when Prem sides can field ‘b-teams’ in the lower league. Typically shrood long-term strategy with their 150k a week of FFP friendly accounting 🙂
(What affection I had for Clichy left with that horror wide-mohawk barnet. Terrible scenes.)
Trev – how dear you speak of our beloved Sagna in such a way? 100 lashes to you dear fellow 😆
NBN @ 352: Great post.
About “But it takes a human to decide what matters and what does not.” …maybe some of the decision making about the relative relevance of the different correlations and what to act based on them can also be automated? As it is done in investment banking (algo trading etc.) but in a more complex and refined scale: http://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/automated-decision-making-comes-of-age/ ?
Maybe self-learning programs like this can be seeded with the singular intelligence of say Arsene’s top 1000 decisions, and then would allowed to be evolved to self-learn (something like a typical Genetic Programming paradigm) , and in a short while you the manager on the touchline would have an assistant ‘program’ who in certain sense would be a more insightful manager than he is …
Trev,
Clichy hasn’t changed. City pull back from 2-0 versus Liverpool to 2-2. They’re rampant and appear odds on to go on for the win. What does good old Gael do? He does a Clichy! Liverpool 3 – City 3. Almost lost it for them.
Remmber Birmingham away when Eduardo’s lg was broken? Remember that Spurs game that ended 4-4 courtesy of Gael. Remember, remember. He only left because Gibbsy was going to turf him onto the subs bench (and of-course, the promise of some easy cash).
Trev @ 351: Precisely! Once you have given the indication that money is not a problem, there is no ceiling and you are willing to buy and pay players at all costs, do not be surprised when the players demand much more that what you think their maximum worth is and even if that maximum is way above the norm. I hope Toure gets his ‘upgrade’ and then everyone else demands the same. Eventually the wage pressure would become too unsustainable …
Trev/Puno — Don’t you also think that Sagna would be a good fit for City’s increasing need of a solid CB? I know DeMichelis improved as the season progressed but between him and Kompany (has been inconsistent this season) they do not have enough depth and quality to sustain say a CL run. If Sagna joins City I fully expect him to see as a CB in key matches, partnering Kompany.
@320, ST.
Why?
H2H, Thanks! Have already adopted “that cunt” in anticipation of it becoming global identifier for that cunt. So now they have RvC and TC?
362 – If a 31 year old right-back a step slow since 2 broken legs in 12 months is the best central defender 150k a week can buy you then sure thing. Maybe this is FFP biting?
El Puno @ 365: Sagna has shown himself to be a very good CB whenever he appeared in that role. As you said he is much less of an use going forward now, but his overall defensive abilities — tackling, positional awareness, strength in the air, attitude, work-rate, tactical maturity — complemented by his vast PL and CL experience makes him an excellent CB, and an occasional cover in the RB position. He is slow for a RB, but fast enough for a CB now. 31 is still young enough for an experienced CB. It makes sense for City.
The only other CB with both good PL and CL experience who could have been City’s target also plays for us, but fortunately we have just signed him up again on an extension.
Okay Sagna has completed his medical at City
The deal does not appear to be worth much more than what we offered him. Something tells me something tasty is cooking in ‘le pot’
Many thanks Bac 😉
All the best to Sagna then!
Let’s get a proper replacement and a striker now!
Toulouse have reportedly accepted a bid for Aurier and Schalke are reportedly shopping around for an attacking midfielder 😉
I have a sinking suspicion that arsene will promote rather than purchase for the Sagna’s position and also maybe a recall of Joel Campbell if he gets a good showing in the WC?!
Please get enough personnel to see us through a complete season to sustain a challenge…pleasssssse!
I know the usual speculation about Cesc has already started again for this summer and most of it brushes off me with a sense of indifference.
But there is one thing that I really find intriguing : Why has Cesc been left out of the promotional shoots for next season jersey at Barca? They did that to Alcantara last year as well – and he ended up in Munich. This is big money business, so its not an oversight..!
If Cesc does leave, hopefully it’s not to another premiere league club if it isn’t us!
Joe@372: Cesc to Bayern maybe? After all Pep is his idol and as Pep tries to mould Bayern in the image of Barca more players familiar to that style would be needed? Alacantara is injured as well…
Godspeed and congrats to Bac on his golden parachute! That’s a lot of rhino for the occasional run out at RB behind Zabaleta and as insurance/competition for DeMichelis etc. Anyone in Sagna’s shoes who would turn away from that kind of offer would be totally daft….
Joe
It may be because he’s listed. If they do business then it could be a waste. The Mancs are sniffing quite heavily. Dear god no!
I would rather be overstocked than strengthen a Manc. Not sure if the club or player see it the same way. Especially when money’s involved!!
Damn it!
Can’t see Germany being realistic Doctor F.
On a personal level, I believe his partner is london based and has two kids from a previous relationship who I believe are at school in London. So much so Cesc bought her previous family home when it went up for sale as part of the divorce settlement last summer. Will
I also remember reading that Wenger negotiated an option when he was sold so that we not only have first refusal on a sale, but also 50% of the profit that Barca would get on a re-sale. In short, it makes it very difficult for Barca to deal with other clubs.
But mostly I feel that he has had 4 different managers at Barca during his time there and has played in a myriad of different roles, exempt the one he craves the most. Wenger is man who gave him that sense of freedom. Will Pep realistically stay long at Bayern?
I could be wrong, but if he does leave I can’t see him playing anywhere else except with us.
Apparently,
So it seems,
I heard a drunken bloke say on the street,
The odds seem quite good that,
WE WON THE CUP!!!
Hi Oskar.
My, “no it isn’t” comment may have come over as abrupt, sorry, not my intention.
I remember when Gullit was in the PL he was also refered to as Houllit, I suppose it’s because there is no sound in the English language that is the same as the dutch g. Even in varying regions of the Netherlands the letter is prounced differently. In Brabont, for instance it is called a “zachte g”, soft/gentle g, whereas in the north it is a lot harder. I met Gullit once in a seedy afterhours bar in Rotterdam, we struck up a conversation and he was really surprised that he finally had met a Brit that could pronounce his name.
As for van Gaal, if you pronounce it as a H then it becomes Haal, which is already a dutch word, which can mean, drag or pull, ie, een haal van een ciggerette/ a drag from a…… you get the picture. 😉
G-Town.
Go to the Mancs? They’re not in the CL…! Play for a lunatic like Van Gaal ??? They’re a club in the middle of serious transition and he’s coming into his prime.
Play for Citeh? Could they afford him after flouting FFP? They’d have to swap a player maybe to comply. Make no mistake, if they don’t respect the FFP rules, they could face expulsion from CL football for a second offence. As Lars posted recently, their legal appeal to the EU commission was thrown out! So it appears that FFP may have teeth after all ! And he’s that rare type of player that’s not entirely motivated by money anyway. (didn’t he take a wage decrease to go home? If he wanted money, he’d have went elsewhere when we sold him).
Manchester United are no longer trying to sign Toni Kroos after new manager Louis van Gaal decided to pursue other targets, a club source has told ESPN FC.
Hmmm… Toni Kroos anyone?!
BtM @364.
You know it makes sense sir.
Joe
I think you’re right when you say the best option would be us
I’ve got two guesses, of the identity of Dr Fastus 😉
BTM@363.
Simple really. When Mad Jens left he was never replaced. Manuel was never ever going to be good enough and neither was the Flapster. We were in for Schwarzer and if memory serves me correctly then the deal fell through because of what can only be described as peanuts in today’s terms. He would have been a massive upgrade on what we already. If it has been decided that Shezza is the one then he would also have acted as a mentor and greatly assisted with his development. One of Shezza’s problems in recent years has been his decision making. This has greatly improved this season in my opinion. Poor decisions down to inexperience and over confidence? If we had signed someone who could have acted as his mentor I feel that he would have improved at a far greater rate of knots. Then, when the time was right there would have been an almost natural passing of the gloves.
Just my opinion of course.
😀
Cesc won’t leave Barca. It’s in his DNA remember????
Do people actually still fall for that??????
The Toure saga is very funny. New manager at Barca? Toure wants out because his battenburg wasn’t big enough??? What a total shambles.
Spent 10 seconds chuckling at how unceremoniously Cesc is being shifted after how unceremoniously he wangled a move home… Then I thought FOR THE LOVE OF DENNIS SIN HIM ARSENE!!!!!
Exactly what we don’t need, in that he’s small, technical, number 10 etc etc blah blah blah But they said that about Ozil.
He is world class. I love him. He is our really.
COME HOME CESC!!!!!!!
I’ll jizz my knickers and spunk off to a forward line of Giroud and Sonogo of a month if we can line up a midfield of Cesc, Ozil, Ramsey, Wilshere, Cazorla and delightfully figure out all the rest later. Please, please, please.
UTA
GT@384: I don’t think you can guess given that there is nothing specific or special to distinguish . 🙂
Genuinely sorry to Sagna go. And I suspect we will be regretting it in a few months if (more likely “when”) his replacement is regularly getting skinned, out of position, giving away free kicks around the box, and when Arsenal CenterBack Injury Crisis hits again next season. But players come and players go – that’s just the way it is.
Best of luck Bacary Sagna! Will miss your defending, game changing goals, reliability, versatility, and that killer hair-do. Ahhh … the hair do!
As an unabashed Sagna fan, and knowing this day was coming, its still pretty disappointing.
And you call all say, Homer – you’re being a sentimental old fool.
And that’s probably right!
@372 Joe
Not that it matters but in fact Alcantara was part of last years promo shoots and that didn’t stop Barca from selling him.
http://m.bola.net/open-play/video-promo-jersey-barcelona-2013-2014-02022c.html
Hello holics,
I’m still basking from all the warmth from the cup win
Here’s a mini movie from .Con
http://player.arsenal.com/player/5130-fa-cup-mini-movie
Was he really Lurky?
I can think of a million reasons as to why Cesc would stay in Barca, but the fact that they’ve left him out of the Photoshoot was the only fly in the ointment for me. He is one of the primary players so from a marketing perspective in selling shirts, it really does not make any sense at all. Maybe there are doubts over his future? But I don’t think it is an oversight or in any way accidental.
If H2H will permit me, I have 2cents worth to add to the debate on how to pronounce the “G” in “van Gaal”.
Imagine you are out walking on a fine summer day. You are relaxed and chatting to a friend when suddenly a fly flies straight into your mouth and hits the back of your throat.
In panic you tighten your tongue in the back of your mouth and try to expel as much air as you can, as quickly as possible, from the back of your throat.
The resulting noise will pass for the typical Dutch “G” !
This opinion is slightly informed as I did, many years ago, spend three months in Holland working and trying to learn to speak Dutch, an experience that left me with a sore throat for a further three months after returning home.
I do, of course, bow to H2H’s vastly superior knowledge.
Thanks Clive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
BtM,
remember Clichy in the 4-4 vs Tottenham ?
His dithering on the ball at 2-2, going into added time, happened almost right below me, as you will know from your time spent in Block 91. It seemed to be a kind of paralysis before eventually deciding to try a doomed, mishit pass back to My Pal Al.
It was pounced on by, I think, three LWCs who ran off with the ball and fired home. The equaliser was then, although there was only a minute of added time remaining, sadly a certainty.
A terrible, terrible evening made worse by the opening goal – a 40 yard wonder strike from the human rat that was David Bentley. 🙁
I am creating a cocktail called Wenger’s Win!