City To Open Up, Or Not, On Welbeck Day?
Sep 12th, 2014 by 'holic
Real football returns in the aftermath of the international break, and it couldn’t be much bigger than Arsenal against Manchester City at the Grove. Throw in a potential debut for the scorer of two England goals in the week and you have a match to anticipate with relish. That’s the build-up, now for the reality of the fixture.
Since City were first financed by the Abu Dhabi United Group the results of our meetings at the Grove have been 2-0, 0-0, 0-0, 1-0, 0-2, 1-1. Seven goals in six fixtures is not the goalfest we have come to expect in the return fixture where our determination to play an open game has seen goals galore in recent seasons, culminating in last season’s see-saw 6-3 hiding in a game we might have won by any margin up to 6-7.
City have tended to play it tight at the Grove, relying on the counter-attack when we over extend. The fact they have only one win in that six match sequence might just provide Pellegrini’s men the motive to be more expansive this time around. That, and the fact that they now have Bacary Sagna, as well as Gael Clichy and the odious Nasri, able to offer an insight into Arsene Wenger’s approach to such fixtures. Not that they could help much to help when the two shadow squads met at Wembley in the Community Shield a month ago and we triumphed 3-0.
It is a fair bet this will be a very different match from that. If Aaron Ramsey is fit to start we will possibly be missing just Theo Walcott and Olivier Giroud from the likely starting eleven were everybody available. In front of Wojciech Szczesny we can expect a back four of Mathieu Debuchy, Laurent Koscielny, Per Mertesacker, and fit-again Kieran Gibbs.
In midfield Mikel Arteta will probably be joined at the base By Rambo, if fit, or Jack Wilshere if not? Personally I would prefer to see Mesut Ozil returned to the advanced playmaking role in which he can pick out the the pace of Alexis Sanchez on the right, debut boy Danny Welbeck in the centre, and the guile of Santi Cazorla on the left. That would represent a change from what Arsene has done thus far, but we haven’t been firing on all cylinders and this may be the approach to get us back in the groove again.
The most realistic options are on the left flank, where the improved Nacho Monreal may get the nod over Gibbs, and either Lukas Podolski or Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain might be preferred to Santi.
City, obviously title contenders, started the season brightly, beating Newcastle on the road 0-2, then Liverpool at home 3-1, before unexpectedly coming unstuck at home to Stoke City, 0-1, in their last outing. They have lost Jovetic and Fernando to injury, and Negredo as a result of their failure to comply with FFP (according to Pellegrini). Expect Aguero and Dzeko to start up front. Not a bad pairing, in all fairness. Just how ambitous Silva, Nasri, and Yaya Toure are could determine the nature of the contest.
The ‘holic pound is wagered on a float of Friday night stout. I’m drawn to the 2-1 home win on offer at as high as 11/1. That looks generous, with a back-up few coppers on 3-2 at 33’s.
I’m looking forward to seeing a number of you on the day, and for those who cannot make it then I hope you are still able to catch the game with your broadcaster of choice.
Have a good one ‘holics.
239 Responses to “City To Open Up, Or Not, On Welbeck Day?”
Foist?
Cheers H! Have a great day out tomorrow. Busy trialling in Littlehampton, so will be taping it – FFS! Got a sneaky feeling we’re gonna pay those blue nosed cunts back a smidgeon. So will be punting on us scoring more than 2.
Come on you Arsenal!
Get in !
Have a good one, everyone who’s going!
(well, I hope we all have a good one even if we’re not going, actually… 🙂 )
Fuck Oasis!
Nice preview. I just hope for a win. Probably going to watch at the same place with the same people as we witnessed that ungraceful hiding the last time around so even a 1:0 payback would do me good 🙂
Let’s restart the season right. Those first three games weren’t the worst but they might as well be consigned to the history books. Good day out everyone.
Looking forward to this one
Cheers for the write up ‘holic
Haven’t got a scooby what will happen tomorrow but I have a good feeling about Welbeck’s debut so the Holic pound looks sensibly invested. Good game to win and perhaps a draw in Dortmund on Tuesday
Cheers ‘holic. They’ll sit deep and go for us on the break. We can beat this lot if we concentrate.
Nice one Holic, cheers. I also like the look of 2-1 to the good guys. Believe we will all be celebrating in our watering holes, wherever they are, long into day with an early ko here . After downing a fair few scoops of Guinness, no doubt “Danny Boy” * will be given a fair old rendering with our new boy showing us his mettle (down Wolfie) 😉
* or Londonderry Air / Derry Air as appropiate for cba & Joe and any others from the Emerald Isle.
As a club and as an institution, Arsenal have tried to do things the right way for many seasons now, without a hint of luck anywhere in sight.
Injuries, players leaving, quiet on the transfer market and even some restricted transfer buys that were just ok.
But that was then, this is now!!!!!
We have everything we have not had previously and seem ready to go at it…and go hard at it..
I really like the squad AW is assembling now the shackles are off and the handbrake seems to be gone.
We have a solid 11 even when we have injuries. We seem to always have a bench that surprises me even when we have multiple injuries and it does seem our academy and reserves has players that are punching well above their weight and could eAsily make an impact this year, (bellerin) as a great example.
For me, what AW is assembling and has already assembled in what is really a short period of time (post stadium debt), is just the start of a what I suspect will be a furtile and successful period for the Arse..
And it starts with city this weekend….
Am I nervous, not one bit, I am excited, you betcha, because we actually have a fully stacked squad and some. We have the cattle and the horsepower to beat this lot.
And on the Danny wellbeck front, he is just the icing on the arsenal cake, and the cake is pretty good.
3-1 to the arse (as we usually leak one from a set play)
COYR
Nice preview guv’nor. If anyone wasn’t already looking forward to the match eagerly, the above will have set them up nicely. (Well it would have done if they weren’t clearly incapable of getting excited about anything anyway. I mean, for heavens sake, it’s been two weeks since the team played, in which time we’ve signed a striker from a declining former rival who scored a couple for Engerland during the week. What’s not to get excited about, even without a stirring preview?)
No idea what the result is likely to be. We’ve not got off to the best of starts this season, so we’re overdue hitting our stride and that lot had a bad result last time out which they’ll be eager to consign to history.
I’ll be happy if we put in a good performance [1].
COYG
[1] Bollocks to that; I’ll be happy with a shit performance provided we score one more than them, but I do remember watching George Graham’s team
I still don’t understand why Nasri comes in for so much stick. Sure he should learn to keep quiet…I should learn to actually work while at work…
I fear we are in for a draw.
Good write up from the barman thanks.
looking forward to a good match in Rhodes bar with 7screens to see 2 from DW and one each from Alexis and MO -what a slice of revebge that would be
COYR
Lonestar – as holic aptly described nasri is an odious little sook who even got booted off his own national side becuase he is an odious little sook.
Other than that he is unfairly treated….
Evening all!
Buzzing here, just got confirmation that I’ve been excused from work tomorrow, so I will be watching the game as it unfolds!
The least I want is all three points. I expect a rollercoaster of a game that could go either way though.
Up The Arse!!!
The Cent approach is the way to go. All three points at the least!!
Lonestar. Your draw fear arises from the guilt at not working while at work. 😉
Let’s beat these oil-boosted mecenaries.
Early start down the M11 for me and the boy tomorrow – gotta avoid the airshow at Duxford. As the guvnor says, City at home has been a tight old game these last few years – I vividly remember us serenading them with “what a waste of money” after the nil nil three years ago. I really feel we’ve got to go for it at home against the top 6 and play it clever away – 4 points from 6 against City, Chelsk, Bin-dippers, Utd, Everton (job half done) and them up the road will win us the league. 2-0 to the Arsenal from my perch in the North Bank lower tomorrow, Danny boy and Alexis to score from two Mezut assists. Come on you Gunners!!!!!!!
He came to us on Deadline day
Danny, Danny
He told the Spurs to go away
Danny, Danny
………….
Hello all.
Cheers for the preview guv’.
I’m back in the Land of Low and will be watching a PL game for the first time this season here at home. For those looking for a good omen, due to my travels, I’ve only seen us run out as winners, live at The Grove against Palace and the Besiktas home leg in a sports bar in a resort in Playacar.
I’m expecting a much tougher game then the seasons curtain raiser which we won pretty easily, Citeh may be missing a player or two, but they have more then enough in their squad to replace the absentees, they’ll be up for this…… but so will we.
I’m really looking forward to seeing our new look strike force, it’s great that we have some real pace back in our attack again, the capture of young Danny Welbeck is a major coup, the more I think about it the better it gets, 16mill is a bargain and the fact that we “stole” him from the filthy red mancs, who are all crying about it, makes it even yummier. But a word of warning, we have new players fitting into a new system, so they may need time to adapt. If they hit the ground running all the better, but if they don’t then I hope the BBB’s will give them time.
For those going, enjoy the day.
Cheers.
Nice write-up, H. Thank you.
I think we shall see Monreal hold onto his position tomorrow and Santi will keep his place too. I don’t think Rambo will be risked from the start and will, if all goes well, be saved for Dortmund.
I have a feeling for 3-1 to the Arsenal so you had better lay off another pound, Holic. 🙂
Top 5 favourite current Arsenal players… It’s tough. I’d go with, in no particular order:
Ozil, Akpom, Ramsey, Sanchez, BFG.
(Kosc, Santi, and Wilshere on the subs bench.)
Believe me,Pellegrini will flood the md like red face did and hit on the break.That’s how Wenger got repeatedly beaten by likes of Chelsea,Mu,MC,andothers who played anti soccer.
If he believes his all out possession and passing without shooting can win,he is sorely mistaken.
The thing is he is too arrogant for the good of Arsenal.
I expect a close encounter.
As far as we keep it tight and not go all out crazy we should be fine. Don’t try to win the match in the first 20mins. Our first eleven is as good as theirs, calm down and no tika taka or side ways stuff. COYG!!!!!!
I agree with Lonestar about the $hiteh draw, and with Ttg about a draw on Tuesday. Both pretty good results vis a vis the opposition, the time of the season and the fact we’re still not really into our stride.
No-one has mentioned Sanogo in this or the previous thread. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start ahead of Danny Boy today, and the latter kept back for Tuesday. Likewise Nacho on Saturday, Gibbo on Tuesday. Otherwise I’m hoping for a full strength (of those available) side against the Middle Eastlanders.
Öskar
Oskar. You could be right about Sanogo. Arsene could be right about him too. But if he turns good, will anybody remind us they thought he was shit?
Let’s kick these sky-blue-wearing, Poznan-taking, player-hoarding, toothless-smirking, mouth-breathing twats right in their oil money cunts!
I’m going 2-0 Arsenal.
You seem surprised Oskar that people aren’t calling for sanogo in the squad.
Too much quality prior to him including Campbell.
Sanogos had his chances, he will be suited to the interim cup matches, not big EPL games
3-0 to the Arsenal.
Up the Arse!
😀
Welbeck. Needs to play.
AW has plenty of tools. Question on my mind is – he use them?
I’m not the least bit surprised no-one’s calling for Sanogo, Aussie. I’m just surprised no-one has considered the possibility AW might view the Dortmund CL game as more important than $hiteh and want to keep his best available CF for that game rather than have him play three times in a week.
Öskar
Ah, the return of proper football. Welcome back, old friend, make yourself at home while I put the kettle on and shoo your ugly, deranged, dribbling cousin international football out the back door.
So the filthy oilers are in town and we owe them for last season. As someone already said, we really ought to win at home against the top clubs to have a proper go at the title.
My heart says we will, while my head has taken a holiday due to last night’s festivities.
Well said, CoR!
Arsene has an infinite capacity to surprise, one would not be shocked to see Sanogo up front, with Welbeck and Alexis on the wings and Ozil in the centre. With Chambers and Arteta to feature too! Gibbs for Monreal if he’s fit!
Battle will be for the midfield and the team who controls that space will win!
😀
It will be 4-0 to the Arsenal. Goals from Cazorla, Ozil, Koscielny and a debateable (but we’ve seen them given) Arteta penalty. Nasri to be sent off for two yellows (breaking the corner flag and arguing with the referee). Aguero to leave the pitch with a cruciate injury after all their substitutions have been made. City to twice hit the woodwork and have three legitimate goals ruled out by linesman’s mistakes. Robbie Savage to spontaneously combust with overexcitement in the studio. Good times.
I’m with homer @ 31
Wellbeck needs to play
The City game is huge and the CL match is huge
No place for sanogo
He is a junior he is learning
No place for him in either games
At worst Campbell is a much more polished player and deserves his chance ahead of sanogo
Morning ‘Holics. I have a good feeling about this one, don’t know why exactly, but it is just a feeling I guess.
Good news on the injury front is that Ramsey has passed the fitness test and is expected to be in the squad. So, apart from Giroud and Walcott we have every one available, including young centerhalf Semi Ajayi, who missed the u-21 game against Villa to train with the first team. I don’t think that he will be included in the squad for the game itself, but it looks like he is taken into serious consideration from Arsene.
To be honest I was expecting Hayden to be given the chance in the first team as he looked quite promising wherever I saw him. But so did JET, Lansbury, Ozyakup or Aneke and niether of them has a career at our club.
Anyway, I am off to have some good time before the game and will be back here just in time for it, as usuall. Everyone who is going to the Ems enjoy yourselves, all the rest see you here later.
Welbeck will be key. His pace can dismantle City’s defence.
I actually think Sanogo will start today and Welbeck will come on as a sub.
Will be surprised if Welbeck starts, he has not got a proper game with the team yet, and to throw him in the deep end?! Still he may have something to prove, he did get two against the swiss didn’t he?
Still hoping for Alexis to be the main striker 😀
We shall see soon enough!
🙂
Just looked at the official team photo on arsenal.com
What a group of players
Per looks so proud to be a gooner
Well…Welbeck starts.
Arsenal team – Woj, Mert, Kos, Debuchy, Nacho, Aaron, Jack, Mesut, Flamster, Danny, Alexis
Subs: Gibbs, Arteta, Poldi, Ospina, Ox, Santi, Calum
Let’s go you gooners
Scholes bashing wilshere in the pregame. What a fuckwit
boilk, I say. bring on the al-citeh oilers.
come on!
we certainly don’t look overawed by the bastards.
oooooh. Danny Danny Danny.
how unlucky for Danny
surely, eandy. good morning…
Unlucky Danny come on Arsenal!
morning scruz
morning, Arthur. drinks on the bar for y’all.
Milner that donkey of a man
Milner you fock!!!
making Joey boy work. good.
fuck fat frank.
argh.
Fak fak fak cone on lads!
pretty weak, mathieu.
Flamini is a corpse.
Harsh el puno.
Fastest i’ve seen a corpse move yet.. 😀
We need to take our chances! ARGH!
Come on lads!
Ozil is not himself
Ozil is in awful, awful form. So is Ramsey. We need them back to their best and we need them now.
Milner is a hack.
How’s that not a yellow?
Ref is a post!
oh we should have a couple goals. unfortunate. pretty good first 25 minutes for us, though, and except for the goal and the silva shot citeh haven’t looked like a bazillionaire’s club.
clearly our team is still learning to play together.
64 – nah 🙂
65 – close call, some of these action packed zombie movies look about the same 😉
#ZombieFlamini
Good first half. Too bad we let in quite a lucky-bouncing counter. It happens, especially against a quality team as City. Alexis is a wonderful player, love him. Danny has been class. Good additions both.
Second half will be exciting. I would like to win against City at home, but considering the stature of that team and that we DID go behind (a narrative with small margins) let’s start with not losing.
Up the arse!
I’d get Ozil off or take off Ramsey (or Wilshere) and shift him central. He’s not doing anything wide.
still looks like its up for grabs….but i really would have liked to see rosicky on the bench at least for this…has he even played at all this season?
Not good enough this half. Alexis must stay up anf let someone else help Nachoy. The flam went to sleey
More width and lots of goals with the Clat showing some blues a red card soonest yes please you reddddds
We still win this.
Get Rosicky on!
He’s got a point to prove by now.
Come on Arsenal we need to dig deep and we bloody do em!
Agree. Put on TR7.
And fernandinho is having a game.
There were good signed of what we can do in the first half. We deserve much better result than the current one. This is winnable.
Come on you gooners!
Why is Ozil still playing wide?Wenger is just too stuborn, put this guys in his preferred position, damn, with all the money spent on him why waste him on the wide side.
Rosicky is not even on the bench
Jack needs to keep things simple.
They should have a player or two off already!
We’re going to win this one!
COme oN!
Wilshere is too bloody slow.
Release the ball earlier Wilshere…!
Argh!!!!!!
Come on!!!!
Come on Ozil sort it out
Gibbs please.
And clichy nearly scored fuck sake sort it out lads
Ozil what the fuckity fiuck?
I watching on nbcsn.
Robbie savage is the most one sided, anti arsenal commentator.
What the hell is this guys problem?
According to him, were barely championship level.
Twat.
Serving up a dud here, need to up it now.
We play with 10 men, come on get the German off, it is Cazorla time
Subs please subs please subs please
Get in!
Now that’s the spirit!
Come on one more!
Fuck yeah jack!!!!!!!!!!!
About time he did something right.
Get the fuuuuuuuuucccckkkkkkk in there wwwoooooohhhooooo!
Trademark Wilshere
yes yes yes. little Jackie w.
BOOOOM!
World class that boy.
Now for the second come llllaaaaaads!!!
JACK!
Ours to win from here 🙂
nice ton, Arthur!
Ramsey looks knackered
too much slack passing at times.
Cheers scruz 🙂 let’s go
The have Dzeko to come on??
Bollocks!
We’ll still win this!!!
COme On!!
dzeko on, hoofball coming.
Sanchez what a player
This has the feel of 3-1 vs Utd in 2001
Get him out ffs
Ref too bloody lenient!
Yes get in!!!!!!
saaaaaaaannnnnn hezzzzzz
Alexis you beauty
Yes!!!!!!!!!!
Now you see why I want him to be a striker!!
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
ALEXISSSSSSSSSSS!
😀
SHIT. THE. BED!!!!!!
Wilshere hell of a game
And we get a yellow card??!!
FFS.. get it together Ref!
Come On!
Another goal from Alexis/Welbeck!!
😀
Wilshereeeeeee
ARGH! Ramsey…. ohhhhhh!
What a second half by Wilshere. Need to release the ball a bit faster at times but what a player he can be when he plays.
Get in the Alex what a cracker
Debuchy injury. Doesn’t look good.
Oh no!!!!!!!!
Debuchy….
Fook. That looks bad for debuchy.
Wish we have gotten a backup defender… 🙁
Oxygen?! Looks like it may be broken… Oh NoOOOOooo!
🙁 🙁
Now we are in some problems. Eight games in three weeks and we are thin as thin it can be, in defense. Not looking good.
Fuck
Bollocks!
Goal from a corner? Who would have thought it…
From a corner?!?!! How fucking cheap.
Four out of six goals we conceded this year are headers
Very inevitable, sadly
COME ON!!!!!!
We can still win this…. get it together!
What is Mertesacker doing?
Lucky
Take that Nasri.. you ….!
Stupid foul Arteta….
Feels like a lost..!
Hope Debuchy is not out for too long.
To many draws. Don’t like it.
Quite a fair result. Debuchy’s injury did look quite bad. That’s my big negative of the day. Good game. Unbeaten. Let’s win the next one.
in hindsight fair result, but shame about their second, completely avoidable….on other hand ..what a goal from Alexis.
we could have done worse. good game to watch, frustrating at times. aaron and özil were off, and the passing was hit or miss for a lot of the game. but when we clicked, we always looked dangerous. not particularly impressed with the defense on their goals, but otherwise we were pretty solid there. pity about debuchy, hopefully not as long out as it may seem. back to bed, goodnight!
Alexis ..top signing!
Well it looks like Chambers will have to show us how good he really is!
Dortmund next?!
Bring em on!
Great game
Shame szcezney spoiled it for the arse
He is a liability in a key role
Loved Sanchez not sure what ozil was up to, still seems to be off, and does come across as lazy compared to the work rate Alex was putting in, two cracking goals, should have own, but a point is still better. Hope Debuchy recovers soon. Defense worries continue. Hope it’s sorted.
Good result, after coming from behind wish we could have held on longer. We need to start working on this zonal marking nonsense. Man marking might be the way forward, no body was even close to demechilis, fuck fuck fuck. Anyways best game of the season so far.
Exciting match!!!
I didn’t get my 2-0 but all things considered I’m happy with a point.
Onward and upward!
Wenger, please bring ozil back to the middle. He is so lost playing wide. Still don’t know what the experiment is all about. Debuchy, boy I hope his injury is not as bad as it looks.
Sitting here close to midnight in sydney
What a game
City are a good team
It’s going to be close
Not much between 4or 5 teams I think this season
Welbeck ozil a bit quiet
But their time will come
Coyg
First thing first I sincerely hope Debuchy will be ok but doesn’t really look good for him, all the best fella!
For me Ozil and Ramsey weren’t themselves today too many misplaced passes and wrong decision making.
We lost the lead because we were out of shape for that corner and Wojtek should have left it for Flamini to head out. Alexis brilliance goes to show we have bought hell of a player. This was truly Jacks afternoon he was immense. Something tells me this will be his year. Shame Cazorla and Rosicky didn’t play part and for Rosicky to not ne on bench is a bit weird.
Good game for the neutral I was a tad disappointed that we lost the lead rather easily.
Good thing for us is that Błaszczykowski had a set back and won’t play for Dortmund against us.
We need to get a streak of wins under our belts team will gel with time.
UTA
Now come on Swansea and Flappy 😉
What a game!
Let go of the narratives and myths about players and watch games objectively, forget where they used to play or even where they played in the last game and focus on how they’re performing/performed on the day. Did Ozil really have a worse game than Silva?
Today we were more solid in the middle as a result of having three natural battlers in there, Ozil is beginning to take on people again and today he took shots when he had sight of goal, isn’t that what people have been asking him to do more frequently?
We are always criticised for not shooting from outside the box, how many times did City try shots from outside our box today?
I feel chesny is not good enough to be our number one if we want to challenge the title.
Hope Debuchy’s injury is not as serious as it looks. Wouldn’t expect that to happen on Emirates surface. Bellerin would be on the bench next match I suppose, or could be Coquelin.
Rambo’s passing and decision making have been a bit off since the beginning of the season. Has scored a few goals but overall play not yet quite there.
Ozil was really struggling out on the flank and only after he moved to the center looked like he could influence the game. Was too timid in a match like that. Once he got on to a lovely flick from Welbeck which put him through the center and a more confident Ozil would have driven straight at the goalkeeper.
Excellent overall performance by Jack, Alexis, Kos.
The gap in physicality and pace at the base of midfield between Fernandinho and Flamini was a telling difference.
And I rather liked Welbeck’s contributions. Was a bit anonymous for parts of match but he did a few key things very well. A goal would have been really nice.
Cent @ 160: I think Ozil is a much better player than what he played today. And many who are criticizing his performance has only that as the reason.
Just because Silva had an ordinary game — Man City was rather ordinary in creating chances except for Navas and Aguero — doesn’t mean Ozil had a memorable one.
He is one of our best players, capable of the sublime, and we want to see him do that in marquee matches like this. Not an unfair expectation, right? 🙂
“It is was an enjoyable game to play in and there were good performances all over the pitch. In these types of games, you have to be happy it doesn’t go against you. […] Arsenal are stronger than last year, and there are no easy way to trophies.”
Not every day I say this, but Kompany knows.
What I love about our team is that when a player is a little ‘off’ another will step in and do the job!
Absolutely no complaints about anyone, however the team is definitely lacking some depth!
Please let Debuchy’s injury to be no more than a slight sprain!
We can go for it this season if we have all our key personnel fit.
Up The Arse!
😀
There are times we look as capable of offering resistance as the gap where Prison Bitch Billy’s teeth used to be. It was a fine game of football, a great watch, but i can’t help but be disappointed at the soft, soft goals we conceded. To let in from a corner with 5 mins to go is just weak. That team was there for the taking and we couldn’t take them. Ho hum.
On the plus side, that’s the best we have played all season by a distance and if we continue to grow like this it will be a fun ride right to the end. Jack was wonderful. Ramsey and Sanchez also. BIG Welly looks a real find. It’s coming together nicely.
Ozil will be fine. Wasn’t his day today, but it was someone else’s in the team. They can’t all get the glory on the same day. Top player, top talent, just needs to run through a rough patch in form.
I can’t wait for Tueday.
UTA
ATG @ 159: TR7 played full 90 minutes in a tough Euro match mid-week and Arsene no longer plays him in two matches in a week unless absolutely needed. Also in the last couple of seasons I have noticed Rosicky’s involvement builds slowly as the season progresses. We can only speculate at the reasons — maybe at the recommendation of the fitness team or simply because he doesn’t want to lose TR7 early in the season given his experience and drive that becomes more vital as the season progresses.
I think he is likely to start away against his previous club.
Also quite interesting with us Arsenal fans having worried so many years over our nr 1 position and today Szcz, Fab and Vito all starts for different teams.
One of them split the Golden Glove award last season, one is in goal for the (this second) joint leader of the PL, and one is at least drawing the spuds at this moment.
Not saying the three are the best in the world by any stretch, but it’s not like any of them are down the leagues.
BTW, who was the last Arsenal forward player to have displayed the combination of quality, intelligence and unbelievable work-rate that Alexis puts in every match. We haven’t had someone like him in a long long time.
Control in tight-space, goals, defensive workrate and discipline, pressing…could become the player of season!
Toby @ 168: Exactly! I had asked this question a few weeks back — when was the last time three GKs growing up in the same club are #1s for three different PL teams in the same season?
Agree on everything Dr. Faustus.
The negatives are that we have to many draws this year.
Ozil and Monreal vs Zabaleta and Navas was a suicidal and very wrong tactical decision. We conceded only one goal from that side, but they had Monreal looked quite uncomfortable vs the pacey Spaniard.
Once Ozil was moved to the middle he was back to what he does best. In a game when Cazorla wasn’t considered, I just can’t see the logic for him playing wide.
Ramsey tries hard, sometimes to hard. Hope he will come back to the basics and keep it simple. For his own and our sake.
I was not impressed with Woj and Mertesacker either. This is fourth consecutive game in which the Pole concedes from the opposition first shot on goal. I keep on saying that we sold the better Pole, but I know I am in minority here. Ospina will get his chance soon.
As for Per, check the situation when Kos almost scored an own goal. What is Per doing? Many examples like that over the games, where Kos is covering for him and is cleaning his mess. It is not a coincidence we conceded so many goals in last years derbies when Kos was not playing.
Monreal had a bad game too.
As for positives. We are still unbeaten.
What a player Alexis is!
Welbeck will fit quite well in our system.
Kos had a great game once again.
Wilshere had a cracking second half. If Ozil continues to play in this form I would prefer Wilshere as a number 10.
Debuchy had a good game, so bad he got injured.
We are to the bare bones in defense once again, but I think we might get a result in Dortmund this week. And by that I mean to beat them. I am confident.
well now
well now
well now
noisy that was
throat raw
just did big back drank drink drunk
cynic – chegwin and bungle 🙂
uply – “5 mins later reached the ball desolate and alone” brilliant
esso – 4″ be 2″ – great call
cba – try soft drinks
great bar good sorts
cheers ‘holic
cheers all ic
UP THE ARSENAL!!!!!
Zonal marking has improved our defensive capability. How exactly? Discuss.
Lurky @ 171: I am one of the majority who don’t agree with you on relative merits of our current Pole and the erstwhile Pole. 🙂 I think Szczesny is a better keeper but you are right that he has scopes for improvement and can do very well with Ospina’s competition.
And you are right that Per works best with Kos. I have found Per a bit off since the beginning of the season, decision making which is his forte has been a little suspect and not possessing great recovery speed that has seen him being caught. But I think it is minor and would get better. On a set-piece like this today we missed the aggressive clearing header that Giroud provides at the middle of the penalty box. I think his aerial ability and willingness to enjoy this part of the game was a very big reason why we conceded so little from set-pieces last season and someone needs to step up.
I really liked Welbeck. Quietly confident and knows how to enjoy himself. What we didn’t do and should do more often is crosses from a stretched out flank for him to latch on to.
It’s a sprain and not anything torn or broken: http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20140913/wenger-on-draw-wilshere-and-welbeck .
Fingers crossed!
YES!
Thanks for the news DocFaust!
Still with a bad sprain, could be out for 2-3 weeks!
Better than months!
😀
This sudden blaming strikes me as off.
First goal totally down to poor defending by flamini abd nacho in a fast counter by city.
Second was q free header in our box in the dying mins.
Blaming ches for either seems likr revisionist history.
Our defense is clearly not up to speed yet as its repeatedlyBut a grind. letting us down. Thats what – 2 set piece goals in the fisrt 4 games?
Hardly the keepers falt.
Still good fight and much better ball movement fron arsenal. A fair point.
Costa living up to his reputation 🙁
Oh and a..customary F Chelski!
BB@176 : Yes hopefully back before the end of month. And please use your weekend for something more enjoyable than watching the scums play. 🙂
Looks like it is five weeks for Debuchy.
Lurky, Monreal didn’t have a bad game, in my opinion. And Ozil was never moved to the center today, he was played on the flanks with license to roam in-field like Cazorla does.
Dr. F, I think most people are expecting the wrong things from Ozil, it’s very clear that his demeanour is not that of a hustler but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t hustle and he is no Lionel Messi or Ronaldo so expecting him to carve defences apart or score a goal in every game is not been fair to him.
My David Silva reference is because just like Ozil he had a good game in my eyes but didn’t score or assist any goal.
Homer, the blame game fucks me off too. It seems there is always someone who is “not good enough” everytime we drop points.
And the worst thing is that people don’t even say “X player was not good enough on the day”, it’s always just “not good enough”.
Meh, 6 points is nothing this early. Really wouldn’t be worried by that stat being thrown about by the tv heads. Haven’t lost all season and growing by the game.
Everything said in praise of Alexis above gets my vote. A delight. Love the work rate he and Wellbeck offer. Both were superb today.
Feeling very bullish about our chances this season.
@ 179 DocFaust
As it is am following some obscure sky running race (http://www.irunfar.com/2014/09/2014-the-rut-50k-live-coverage.html)
but do tune in from time to time on the Beep to see the score!
Spuds as usual living up to their potential, 2-2 against Sunderland
😀
Just returned from a fine match. Frustrating to drop two points but it could have been worse. Today I thought we saw some wonderful Arsenal displays and some frankly very poor ones. Firstly the positives. Great performances by Sanchez, Jack, Koscielny and BFG. Welbeck did really well and looks tailor made for this dude. Ramsey looked knackered from early on after a good and confident start and I thought Monreal did quite well when he was often facing two men.
Ozil frankly was awful. Hurts me to say that but he doesn’t give our team very much when he plays like this. When he is criticised and I am a big fan normally , many spring to his defence. That won’t be easy on this display . I also thought Flamini was way off the pace off the game. He shouldn’t be anywhere close to starting for a top PL team.
I wouldn’t criticise Ches particularly he made a very important save after Aguero scored but his kicking is putrid. The zonal marking system must be seriously looked at.
We didn’t get a corner all game which must be a record. I think we neded to produce some more midfield ballast after we took the lead. The two subs due to come on sat down but Ramsey needed switching and Arteta for Flamini should have happened before.
Citeh were cynical but quite impressive in terms of their movement and if you paired Kompany with Koscielny you would have the two best CBS in the world in your team. Kompany is brilliant. So is Silva and Aguero is a nightmare to mark.
Cent, comparing Silva and Ozil, based on this match especially, doesn’t do any good to Mesut. It is true, they both failed to score or assist, but that is where the similarities ends, at least for today.
Not sure I saw Silva passing directly to the opposition player, misplacing variety of passes or losing duels constantly. But what I am sure off, is that I saw Silva constantly offering himself to his teammates, spraying passes, trying to find holes in our defense and being far more active than our German, who to be fair I wasn’t even aware that was playing in the first half and great majority of the second.
I am sure he will be good though, he has the quality to do it, but I just can’t help to notice that something is really wrong with him this days. And that is such a worrying thing.
Imagine him and Ramsey back to the last years form, today when we have such a great player in Alexis and we have Wilshere stepping in good. Just imagine. We need Ozil, but not he is not at his best this season. Not even close.
opta”5 – Arsenal have conceded five goals from eight shots on target faced in the Premier League this season. Shocked.”
did it say anything about our gk?
Lurky, we will have to agree to disagree on Ozil then.
Abc11633, it’s not about the number of shots you face, it’s about where the shot came from and the ‘keeper has little or no influence on where the shots come from.
To cent and lurky, I think for us to get the best from ozil, Arsene has to figure out how to play him in his right position. We can’t be complaining about him not influencing the game if we keep playing him out of position. And correct me if am wrong, did he ever play Dennis B on the wings at all? I might be wrong, any takers?
Szczesny made two excellent saves today; one the rebound of which Nasri tucked in from an offside position and one earlier in the game from an Aguero shot but let’s not talk about it, let’s talk about the one time he was at full stretch and got finger tips to the ball but couldn’t save a bullet of a header(a free-header at that). I’m sure we would all be happy to see our ‘keeper not trying his best to stop a shot in the hope that a 5 ft10 player will make a perfect headed clearance on the goal line.
Villa looks quite a balanced and defensively well drilled side, it is going to be a tough game against them next week. The way that we play these days in defense I am afraid they might kill us on counters.
Lurky, it goes to show how high the competition is in the EPL. When Liverpool mauled Spurs a few weeks back people were raving about them but they themselves got spanked by City(who lost to Stoke who in turn lost at home today to newly promoted Leicester City) and today lost to Aston Villa, the line between winning and losing, having a good game and having bad game in the EPL is ever so thin.
Satisfactory game I guess and, as long as you don’t lose these big matches, a draw is a fair result. However, I am quite disappointed that all three points were not ours at the final whistle after coming back from behind to take the lead. Citeh were there for the taking today. More sloppy and familiar goals given away yet again! Very frustrating and it’s now 4 headed goals in 4 games this season! Zonal marking; garbage! An empty space in the box doesn’t score a goal so why mark it?! Mark a man! Man-to-man or mixed-marking all day long should be the norm at set-pieces for this group!
Unlike some in the drinks today and in the past, the BFG had yet another jittery match and his intelligent reading of the game is now not compensating sufficiently well enough for his lack of pace when errors arise against world-class creative players and strikers. I fear whenever he’s without cover from Kos. Additionally, his distribution from the back and movement with the ball at his feet doesn’t breed much confidence. Have a critical look at his role in the first Citeh goal. Recovery pace is critical in the modern game and that’s why Kos and Kompany are the best in the business in the EPL! 2 points out of 6 from the big matches thus far this term. Now to pick up a few wins. COYBG!
Agree Cent, the PL this year looks most competitive then ever. There are many quality sides this year, like Villa, Stoke, QPR or So’ton, that most of the so called big teams will have problems beating them.
Well, most of the big teams, because it looks like Chelsea don’t have that kind of a problem. It pains me to say it, but they look unstoppable at the moment. And for all the praise Costa gets this days, I think that with Fabregas in this kind of form even Torres would had scored plenty if he stayed. Fabregas is the main reason they are this good. They are the team to beat this year, I am not sure we are there yet, though.
In case you haven’t seen this yet:
http://instagram.com/p/s5QnEpOswS/ .
Some cool cats … and then there is Samuel Jackson too.
I struggle with Wenger’s programme notes sometimes and usually don’t read them. He has usually already said what he has written at the previous day’s presser . Today’s suggest that he is happy with our defensive resources and that he thinks 3 CBS will be enough as there are many good CBS in the world. He didn’t say that one of our centre halves is a lad who has only played their four times in his life and who is also deputy right back . With Debuchy possibly out for some time I wonder if he truthfully considers our resources adequate now.
The failure to sign a capable midfielder who can protect the back hour and a decent CB is already coming back to bite us and unless our luck on injuries changes completely from what we have seen in the past umpteen years we could be in big trouble when we play the big boys. Also worryingly we looked a lot less fit than Citeh today as the closing minutes indicated. Shad Forsythe please work your magic
Sorry I meant NOT many good CBS in the world-
TTG @ 197: We all have said this a few times before but I will agree with you that to win the PL, playing the way we like to play (i.e., possession based penetrative football in the opposition half where the participation of full backs are crucial to offer width while our inside forwards dart in), we really need an upgrade at the base of the midfield.
Flamini tried very hard, but the pace of the game was too much for him. For our first goal his duty was to cover for Nacho and it is impossible for him to check runs of someone as fast as Navas. Our left side was being attacked methodically — maybe we had missed a trick and should have used Santi who provides better defensive protection to Nacho — and Flamini despite being able to recognize the problem couldn’t do much about it.
Hopefully no more injuries before the next window and then to get the necessary cover. Especially in the midfield and forward line we have enough depth to rotate.
Boom
199 – second that
200 – watching on tape delay?
Cent.
You my friend are in fine form.
Go on … Go on now — here’s a jack wilshere style cross intp the box!
Homer, thanks for the kind words, mate. That’s quite an early through ball for the 3 ton, I only have to complete 97 more moves to get there 😉
Ttg, I don’t think Wenger is not wrong when he says there is a lack of top quality CB’s in the market, if there was Chelsea won’t start the season with the same number of senior defenders as us, Barcelona and Manure won’t have queued up to buy our 3rd choice CB and Liverpool won’t have payed £20M for Dejan Lovren.
Dr. F, I’m a bit disappointed that you’ve fallen for the DM myth, what sort of upgrade would be better than City’s Fernandinho? Still they conceded two against us today. Chelsea had Matic on today and somehow still conceded two against Swansea.
You have it ya. Im convinced!
Home from the game. Reflected.
Ultimately this was extremely frustrating. It was a travesty that we were trailing at half time.
Their first goal could have been prevented had Flamini kept up with Aguero whom he was in front of in the build up but simply let run past him in the 6 yard box. Frankly Flamini is not up to the task and I believe that our weakness at DMF is going to prevent us challenging this season.
I have defended Ozil against the criticisms of Oskar and others last season but today he stank the place out and he needs to shake himself up. I would have subbed him at HT and I didn’t see anything in the second half that he contributed that makes me revise that view.
I thought Kos was our MOTM. Without him we would have been in serious trouble. Had we had Kompany alongside him we would have won the match.
Good first game from Welbeck. Hopefully his injury doesn’t keep hi out long.
Good to see the usual culprits at the Tollie today (you know who you are), including Steve T. Get back here mate. It’s unbalanced without you.
I thought our midfield today was poor individually but as a unit we somehow bossed them for long spells. I know that doesn’t entirely make sense but until his goal I thought Wilshere was having a poor game, Ozil takes peripheral to whole new level and Ramsey was having one of his “I am a world class player” games. The ones where he tries to prove he is by being too clever and ends up doing the opposite.
City were worse as a unit but had one individual who played very well.
Ozil is never going to prove his worth until he moves into the number ten role, which will mean one of Wilshere or Ramsey will have to go. Which is probably why Ozil is stuck out wide being largely invisible.
Welbeck did ok. He should have laced that chance but it was good to see composure and confidence in front of goal. If it had gone in, who knows what might have happened.
It will be interesting to see what happens with team selection when Walcott is fit.
Cent
I’m sorry I have enormous respect for your views but we are in an exceptional position to get deals done and four games into the season our defence is under huge pressure. We just have to sign the players we need.
We just haven’t got a fourth centre back we can field with any confidence and we have go find a solution. One never knows the truth of transfer dealings but we always seem to want go try to play a game of transfer chicken with clubs we are dealing with and it has left us far too short in key positions.
I watched Flamini at close quarters today and he should not be starting against the league champions. Wenger admitted we are a midfielder short when he has had three months go sign one. To a certain extent every transfer window we end up looking deficient in some areas and we have performed worse in that respect in January than we have in the summer windows.
I agree with Doctor F. Whether we needed a destructive midfielder is open to question but we need dynamism, mobility, ability to press and tackle and work within the quick passing rhythm we have when we play best. The nearest thing go this is Rosicky and although he isn’t a huge ball winner he has a phenomenal work rate and is a great influence on the team
Cynic describes our midfield well. We were awful after the goal up to halftime but Jack raised the team by virtue of his own effort and quality.
And just to be REALLY controversial we would have won that game with Fabregas playing instead of Ozil. I think most Arsenal supporters believe we should favour Ozil over Cesc because of the latter’s behaviour at the end of his time with us but Mesut really has to do so much more especially in games like this. I hope he noted the effort of Sanchez who worked his socks off today.
Sadly we must get a result at the Bus Stop in three weeks time or we may find the title horse has bolted before the end of October- to a team who had their squad in place in June
I cannot disagree with any of that ttg.
…..and as Steve T would probably have said, if here, the defensive depth chickens are coming home to roost…..somewhat earlier than anticipated too, it has to be said.
Holic, Vinny, Bloggs, a very welcome start for our top wide man Steve T, Bath & Son, debutant Matt, BtM in tandem with Her Nelliness – a fine starting line-up and, like the real team, showing one or two omissions from the usual starters – not going to name them ‘cos it will offend whoever I accidentally omit.
Overall it was a really good, exciting match in which the balance of play and the lead see-sawed and a draw was probably a fair outcome. Conceding so near the end, having fought back from a goal down to take the lead, it did feel a bit like points dropped.
Man City are though, unfortunately, a very good side with excellent movement, good shape and a physicality that is hard to overcome.
There will be plenty of proper match reports around, so just a few personal observations, some in relation to comments already posted above –
Our lack of a quality defensive midfielder is glaring. Man City attackers were able to find space in front of our back four at will. Monreal was often left exposed as Navas and A.N.Other doubled up on him. At 2-2, near the end, Nasri – I believe – was allowed a free run right into our penalty area.
Jack Wilshere had a tremendous game today but his style means that he will inevitably lose the ball sometimes. When that happens we have to have someone behind him to protect the back four from the counter attack.
Mesut Özil needs to be accommodated in the middle. When he drifts inside at the moment, he is running into traffic but his creativity and ability to find a telling pass are obvious. On the wing he becomes a peripheral figure who trades his creativity for half hearted attempts to get back and tackle in defence.
Alexis can be a super player with a fantastic work ethic – and the goals are already totting up too.
Welbeck showed what he can offer with some clever flicks, some hard work and a run and chip which deserved a goal in his first game. He needs the craft of Özil alongside, just as Thierry Henry owed so much of his success to the guile of Dennis Bergkamp.
Koscielny has few equals but Kompany is surely one of them.
No need to focus on the off form players with, possibly, one exception. Wojcech Szczesny, to me, is a worry. He has bought himself a lot of goodwill from the fans with some of his antics and professing of his being a Gooner etc.
He did make a couple of very good saves today but I think he also was at fault for City’s second goal. A 6’5″ goalkeeper should not be allowing any opponent to head the ball right in front of him on the 6 yard line. Seemingly having realised that, he then ran and jumped at the next free kick without getting anywhere near the ball.
His penchant for the short pass out from goal also, at times, creates unnecessary pressure for his own defenders. That’s not to say he should always lump it, but he needs to choose his times much better.
Hopefully the competition from Ospina will bring about the improvement everyone imagines.
Playing the financially doped Man City is never going to be easy. It just seemed a pity that a very good performance today did not quite deliver the three points it could have done – however fair the draw might have been.
Ttg knows.
It is not a shame to admit when some of our players doesn’t play well. It is OK if someone has a bad game or two, but in Ozil case it is much more then that.
Admit it or not, we all can see that something is wrong. Is it a confidence, is it lack of preparation, is it the fact that he is been played out of position, I can only guess, but there is a problem. Not saying that he on his own is the main reason for us not playing well, because we arent no matter that we are yet to lose a game. We were extremely lucky not to lose against Everton, lucky to win over QPR, and we sure rode our luck against Besiktas.
There is so much good to come from this team, I can sense it. But at the moment we just can’t click and that is the truth, we like it or not. If someone needs to be sacrificed for the rest of the team to start functioning, then be it. It was Woj or Vermaelen in the past. It could be Ozil today. I don’t care, as long as we are improving as a team.
Ttg, bath, cynic – agree with all of you.
Moving Özil inside would mean displacing Jack, Cynic, and Jack’s our best player at the moment. Özil edges him on the international scene perhaps, but just never appears up for the weekly Premiership grind. He just doesn’t have the work-rate required, imo.
I thought a draw would be a good result, as it will be on Tuesday, but still disappointing to see points thrown away by the infernal zonal marking curse. Per has to be the world’s greatest low jumper, he’s lucky to clear the grass sometimes. Early days but I can see Chambers being Kos’s first choice CD partner before the season’s out.
Great goals and great industry from both Jack and Alexis. If we’d had OG up front instead of Welbeck we’d have been far more dangerous.
Unlike some I thought Clattenbugga had an excellent game, letting the game flow and keeping a lid on it. Yes $hiteh played hardball, but just about within bounds, so no complaints from me.
Öskar
My comment is ‘awaiting moderation’, ‘holic? What’s that all about??
Öskar
Ok, I was a bit harsh on Szczesny with their second goal, the corner was about 9 yards out – not 6.
Cent @ 205: Why do you think I am merely the consumer of the myth and not its originator? 🙂
Jokes aside, I don’t think it is a myth at all. With all due respect, I think you are overlooking what did NOT happen which is sometimes as important as what happened.
Man City, despite being overrun in the middle of the pitch, and having to face some of the smartest cookies in the attacking third conceded only two excellent quality goals. They counter attacked but were not for once seriously troubled in a fast break — except for the strange back-pass from Silva — and Fernandinho was the main reason.
If you were to switch the roles today — Fernandinho for us and Flamini for City — we would not have conceded our first goal and they would have conceded at least one more.
This is an area where we have been and will be exposed timed and again against the better oppositions who know how to counterattack with pace while maintaining great quality on the ball and in off-the-ball movements. The only way we will get around this by not pushing both the full backs up at the same time or by playing with TWO deep-lying midfielders both of which will take away a lot from our attacking verve.
That is just my opinion, of course, and I could be wrong.
Trev @ 212: “Our lack of a quality defensive midfielder is glaring. Man City attackers were able to find space in front of our back four at will. Monreal was often left exposed as Navas and A.N.Other doubled up on him.”
Perfect gist!
Otd @215, agreed, Jack and Rambo all need to consolidate on the progress they’ve made and are still making, they can’t do that while sitting on the bench just so we can move Ozil into central midfield and play Santi on the wings. I believe Wenger is already looking beyond life after Santi who is very close to his 30th birthday(we know how Wenger is with guys over 30, *cough* Rosicky *cough*) Ozil, Wilshere and Ramsey are the future for Wenger and he clearly thinks the future is now so they will be playing every game so long as they’re fit.
As a big fan of Ozil, I have to agree that he had an absolute stinker today. His confidence seemed to have been decimated and I’m wondering if it’s because this new formation results in him being played out of his best position. Playing him on the wings just doesn’t seem to be working.
Rambo needs to revert to the simplicity that worked for him last year. However, I thought Wilshere played well throughout the entire game, despite some people saying that he only played well in the second half.
Happy for the point but it could’ve been so much better tonight. It could’ve also been worse.
By the way, with the “Rolls Reus” broken down, I think Dortmund is there for the taking on Tuesday. COYG!
Only Wenger knows why we never got a DM that could also deputise as a CB if the need arises. Flamini and Arteta wont cut it, sorry.
Dr F, take a look at Cent’s post at #40. He thought Sanogo was going to start against Cit-eh, probably on merit. So it’s no real surprise that he thinks we don’t need a DMF.
Early days yet, let’s hope we can get a result in Dortmund & then put a couple of wins back to back in the Prem.
Cent @ 220 : “Ozil, Wilshere and Ramsey are the future for Wenger and he clearly thinks the future is now so they will be playing every game so long as they’re fit”. No rotation? Two matches a week?
So is Ozil going to get stuck on the wings or what? We paid 45mil for him. If playing on the wings doesn’t suit him, why keep him there. Thats a lot of money. I dont know how Wenger is going to make it work, well that why he gets paid all that money. He needs to figure something out, because we all can see that he is struggling playing on the wings.
Terrific game to watch, lots of great football and hard luck stories on both sides. Yes, we scored two great goals but gave away two sloppy ones and had it not been for the post and a Ref who missed Jack’s hand ball in the area we would have lost the game.
Citi are a wonderful side, full of pace and power with a great finisher in Aguero. Flamini was out paced and out thought in his efforts to prevent the first Citi goal.
Ozil and Ramsey are getting plenty of stick. Neither were anywhere near their best and haven’t been so far, in any game, this season.
I agree that Ozil is a wallflower out wide and should be given the playmaker roll in the middle. Rambo seems to be trying too hard but will I’m sure find his best form before long.
Jack and Alexis were our star turns.Both worked their socks off and gave us the chance to win the game. Sadly the injury to Debuchy was the turning point, although I don’t think Chambers was to blame for Citi’s equaliser. We just looked less confident at the back and there were two other near misses after the French FB had left the scene. Let’s hope the ankle sprain is nothing more serious and Debuchy is back very quickly. Prior to the injury he had enjoyed a very good game and has proved to be an excellent replacement for Sagna.
If only Welbeck’s chip had found the back of the net, if only. All in all a draw I feel was a fair result. It was our best display of the season but we need to get some wins in the league under our belt, starting next Saturday! Tuesday’s line up should be interesting, I expect a couple of MF changes. Would Arsene drop Ozil?
COYRs
Vinny — We really do need an upgrade in DM. I think we all here have great respect and admiration for Cent’s opinions and his infectious positivity and all of our players, and he is right when he calls us out for excessive criticism of our players. But in this case I will like to disagree with him.
Ozil is going through a funk obviously, and I am sure Arsene will know how to get it sorted. I think he is one of the best players of this generation, and he will get back to his best soon.
What I hope for this season is not to get stuck in one single favorite formation and a favorite first eleven. We need to rotate a bit better and use our newfound squad depth. We might drop a point or three in the short term but the squad would be so much better served with adequate rotation for the season!
Dr. F, I think it’s necessary for me at this point to state I also think we need an upgrade in that DM position, I just don’t think it’s the main reason we conceded the first goal today, I think so many of our players, including Koscielny who basically watched Aguero run past him to score, could have done better to avoid that goal. And having Fernandinho, for example, in our team won’t have prevented that goal if the other players defended that counter like they did today.
Vinny, the reason I thought Sanogo would start today has nothing to do with merit, knowing Wenger and how much value he places telepathic understanding between players I thought he’d go with Sanogo whom the other players knew better than Welbeck.
Re the DM, looks like I wasn’t fast enough to clarify my position.
Dr. F, @214, no way we won’t rotate, they will definitely start most of our games though.
Dr. F@224 even.
Cent, Cit-eh were missing their first choice DM, Fernando. Fernandino was only playing as he was injured. Plus they were w/out YaYa Toure.
Had they both been playing, our DM weakness could have been really exposed.
Regarding Sanogo, I’m sure the Players were happy Welbeck was playing irregardless if they hadn’t played with him before. I’m not writing off Sanogo, he needs at least another year playing out on loan to smooth out the rawness.
I think I just figured out why I seem not to agree with everybodly tonight, I think the issue is that, in my opinion, most of our fans give way too much credit to the opposition and scrutinize our players way too much, examples; 1. I don’t understand how anyone can say Silva had an average game while Ozil was awful. 2, I can’t reconcile people saying pretty much everybody in their defence had a good game and half of our team were awful when both teams conceded the same number of goals. I mean if Ozil was awful, Ramsey wasn’t up to it, Wilshere was having a bad game till he scored, Flamini’s legs are gone, Monreal was awful, Mertesacker isn’t in top form and Chesney is not good enough all while Kompany was bossing the game, Fernandinho was doing his beast of a DM thingy, Navas and Zabaleta were terrorising Monreal, Silva was steadily trying to make things work for his team and Aguero was unplayable how did the game end 2-2? Why didn’t it end something like 0-3 or even 0-5 which would have surely illustrated their supposed superiority?
Vinny, your 231 is exactly what I’m talking about; excuses for the opposition and none for us.
1st of all, Fernandinho is their 1st choice DM, Fernando is the one they signed this summer. We are the ones who were actually missing our 1st choice DM, Arteta, who made his comeback from injury towards the end of the game.
Secondly, I believe Fernando and Yaya btoh started a few weeks ago when we spanked them at Wembley, although both teams played weakened teams.
Thirdly, apart from our first choice DM we were also missing our first choice striker, yes Olivier Giroud is out injured. We were also missing our 1st choice left-back, Kieran Gibbs, if you didn’t notice it then that is credit to Monreal who was deputising for him, no? I believe we were also without the player who has scored the most Arsenal goals in this current squad, Theo Walcott. It’s amazing how we had all those players out or on the bench but still matched them on the pitch right? Well let me introduce you to our squad depth, quality squad depth, it’s top secret.
Cent @ 233 : If I may, I think you are being a little too sensitive about the criticisms of some of the performances on the day, and I am talking about criticisms here on this bar. I am sure in the wilderness of the cyberspace there have been wild overreactions, I won’t know as I stay away from that madness, but here in this bar the patrons have simply pointed out some poor performances and some of them being endemic have raised concerns.
I am really not bothered by individual or tactical performances by Man City. They are an excellent team — not because I just think so but because they won the league last year and played demonstrably excellent football — and one of our main title challengers. We were playing at home against them, we think we are challenging for the title (not out of any sense of false entitlement, but simply because objectively speaking we are good enough or almost, we have strengthened our squad, and after all we are fans), and despite having outplaying them for a good portion of the match we could not manage to get a win which would have really improved our standing and given us a modicum of self-believe against our direct rivals.
So, starting from that perspective many of us can feel a bit of disappointment even though the point was very well-earned . Arsene himself expressed a bit of disappointment.
And when you are disappointed with a result you do find a few players who haven’t played as well as they could. I think we all matured enough to understand that not everyone is going to have a stellar game every day. But we do hold our players to high standards — because we are fans — and we like to compare them against the memory of their own fine performances as well as other superior performances in that position. But well within reasons: I mean no one is asking why Szczesny is not playing as Gigi did when he was 24, or why Ozil is not leaving defenders on his trail a la Maradona at 26.
In our mind, Ozil can play much better. Compared to the quality of our attacking play our defensive side of the game was shaky and Flamini was a weaker presence in that role so we think we can ‘do’ better, etc. etc.
I think we all know and agree that we have a pretty good team. And most of us feel privileged and proud to support Arsenal. But if some of us wish that a player on a given day could have really done much better given his quality or we could have collectively done much better in a certain situation I think it is rather natural to express that opinion without being reminded of our squad depth etc.
The players do not need to be protected from our opinions. They know when the play well and when they don’t, their manager and fellow professionals tell them. All they need is support and encouragement while the match is happening and I heard a stadium full of Arsenal crowd cheering them on for every single second.
Tuesday is a new game!
@234: “…modicum of self-belief…”
Cent, #233, I didn’t come on here to rip apart Arsenal players because they drew v City, I commented on two of your posts one at #205 to Dr F, “DM myth” & #40, where you reckon Sanogo starts v City.
I wasn’t excusing City’s performance with player absences above at #231, I was merely pointing out that their first choice DM Fernando was ruled out today as was YaYa Toure. In light of your “DM myth” line, I said it’s just as well they both weren’t playing yesterday imo. btw Fernando has edged out Fernandinho as first choice DM, Fernando has missed the couple of games through injury.
I accept the argument out first choice DM Arteta wasn’t available either.
Arteta came on as a sub, so I assume he must have been available, Vinny. Not that I view him as much different to Flam. If we must play a designated DMF then we need to buy one. I’d prefer to have more mobile midfielders capable of tackling back if necessary than one stuck at the back primarily in defence. That leaves us an attacking player short in my book. Better, in my opinion, to have our FBs never venturing further forward than the half-way line so they’re never caught out leaving the CDs going wide to cover for them and gaping gaps in the middle as a consequence. When did FBs become wingers, and why?
Bring back 4.4.2 or 4.5.1 I say. We get caught with a 2.5.3 combination too often for my liking.
Öskar
Delia. Boom!
We drew the holders. And should have won.
Onward – as el puno would say.
Night all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>