Gunners Mackem Pay For Mistakes
Oct 25th, 2014 by 'holic
I think I have said before, and probably more than once, that if the mark of a good side is one that picks up wins when playing badly, then we must be world-beaters. Quite frankly right now we’ll take the three points any way we can get them, whilst offering up prayers to all of the Gods thanking them for Alexis Sanchez and his continuing fitness.
For the second match running we scored twice away from home to seal victory, but this was not a smash and grab of the type witnessed in Brussels. This was a win ground out by a squad desperately looking to gel, and owed much to Sunderland’s current crisis of confidence.
To be fair to the mackems they started brightly and Arsenal’s defence, again incorporating Nacho Monreal as a central defender, held firm. Arsene had presumably anticipated as much, and paired Mikel Arteta with Mathieu Flamini in front of the back four as added insurance. An interesting decision, for certain, and the end result provides justification for that selection.
The contest was developing with a hint of an edge after Rodwell’s awful lunge on Calum Chambers resulted in nothing more than a talking to from Kevin Friend, who went on to book three players from each side for less serious offences. These continuing inconsistencies frustrate supporters everywhere and once again chants of “You don’t know what your doing” rang around the ground.
As Arsenal imposed themselves on the match Danny Welbeck hit a curler from outside the box just over. Santi Cazorla was off target looking to test a nervous looking former Gunner, Vito Mannone. Generally though we struggled to create much against Sunderland’s massed ranks of defence until they actually did it for us. Wes Brown’s horrendous mis-hit backpass sent the industrious Alexis scampering clear to lift the ball over Mannone’s left shoulder. One nil to the Arsenal, and a bit early for the ‘holic pound I thought at the time.
The first half, and what was to follow as the match drew to a close, was a demonstration of how valuable the Chilean has already become for us. He allies pace, wonderful technical ability, calm finishing, and a work ethic bettered by not one of his colleagues. He works his socks off for the side. When eventually we have got a functioning midfield he could be an absolute revelation. That we haven’t was evident and must remain a mystery to the manager and his coaching staff.
Sunderland again came out determined after the break and Rodwell’s header was as close as they would come to getting an equaliser. Oh the irony had it gone in. The fierce undercurrent remained. Steven Fletcher hobbled off and was followed by Kieran Gibbs, Just what we needed, another defensive injury. Per Mertesacker didn’t look to be moving too freely, but then does he ever? He remained the rock on which our back four hangs, surrounded by three full-backs, one a rookie.
I used the word soporific to describe events in Belgium and the same adjective describes this second-half. The longer it went on the more we retreated and looked to hit on the break. Tired legs were replaced too late I thought, Ramsey and Rosicky coming on for Arteta and the out of sorts Ox in the closing minutes.
There remained the sight of Mannone making a complete and utter hash of controlling a ball and presenting the ever alert Alexis with his second goal, and denying me a tidy little win into the bargain.
Not surprisingly the manager was keen to praise the matchwinner afterwards.
“He took advantage of the mistakes they made, but as well, he has super quality, Sanchez. He has has quick feet and that’s why he wins many balls that normal players don’t win. In transition from offence to defence, he is very quick and wins the ball back very quickly, and you can take advantage of that.”
He certainly dug us out of a hole today. Let’s hope we can build on our improving fortune, and our yet to improve form.
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224 Responses to “Gunners Mackem Pay For Mistakes”
Maiden 1st place for me!
It’s emotional!
Equally delighted by today’s ugly victory….Some of our draws have been better performances, so I’m pleased fortune has reversed itself….With the exception of Chelsea, no other ‘big’ team in England is any kind of form – and with City and Liverpool struggling in Europe too, things could be worse!
Keep Alexis fit and we’ve got a world-class game-changer in our side. Not too many of those in the Prem now, so let’s rejoice in that.
Third.
3 points.
Enough said. ๐
I need to get punning again !
Mackem pay ! ๐
Now to read ………….
Good piece Guv’nor. I posted some fatuous remarks after the chevrons in the previous bar, which I don’t intend to repeat. Anyone who is curious is welcome to go and have alook at them. I can’t recommend it though.
COYG
As if watching our team at the moment isn’t bad enough, Trev is going to
pun ish us ๐
3 points playing badly is much better than 0 points playing badly.
This season’s top three players so far, in no particular order:
1) Alexis Sanchez 2) Alexis 3) Sanchez
While the injury gods have not been kind, the scheduling gods are providing an ideal platform — an uninterrupted week of training and Burnley at home — to get this side into some kind of offensive flow.
The belief here is that once that flow gets started it will improve matters in all areas. And getting a pacy Bellerin in at RB will help; to these eyes, young Chambers is showing some fatigue and a switch into CB will be good for him, and for the BFG as well.
But how does it compare with getting 0 points playing well? Me, I’d take the 3 points at present, give us a nice sustained winning run and a nice lead, preferably in double figures and I might put playing well as a hihher priority then three points, but at present three points hits the spot very nicely indeed thank you.
COYG
Top ten finish but drinking badly.
Cheers H! Love the little Dude from the land of cheap red wine (well it used to be!).
Love the folk on here. Enjoy it tonight lads and lasses.
Winning! Its really great.
Sanchez is the best signing of the season so far.
Costa? That’s coffee. And shit coffee at that.
Cheers Guvna,
Balancing up all the flack Le Boss has taken for his lack of signings, some applause is in order for bringing in a goal machine ,fox in the box super speedy winger rock hard class act who chases lost causes and looks like he loves every minute.
Worth every penny.
I’m yet to be convinced we’re up karzi creek with no bog brush.
Onwards and upwards.
And probably a bit sideways occasionaly.
COYG
@13
Well said. Just to note, in case it needed noting: the manager (despite his flaws) was the person who this summer passed on Cesc Fabregas (and if we’re talking love-children….) and instead spent the dough on Alexis Sanchez.
Good as Fabregas may be, Sanchez is entirely the right man for this team at this moment in time. Thank Dennis we have him.
Good early post ‘holic and a very welcome three points!
Sanchez, world class with the work rate to boot! The week’s rest is much needed! Fingers-crossed he’s injury free till the reinforcements return! Fr From the previous bar, I’m sticking with you best I can BtM although it’s getting tougher to remain “glass-half full” ! Three points behind Cit$h and should be at least 9 behind the Chavs when the Mancs take points off ’em tomorrow evening. Just keep winning ugly till the “beautiful football” cavalry arrives! Up the Arse!
Contrary to what seems to be popular opinion I actually though we played quite well in many respects today. Anyone with half a footballing brain knew that Sunderland were almost certainly going to come out determined to amend last Saturday, and we made sure we were safe at the back before we started attacking. Sure, we weren’t exactly storming forward in attack but we always looked more likely to score than they did. Their only shot on target was the Rodwell header, and then there was the situation where Bellerin and Szczesny didn’t communicate well enough and almost fucked things up. But other than that, when did Sunderland ever look like they were going to even be close to scoring? We have struggled defensively, so today we took a step back and made sure we got that bit right. And in the second half we really should have killed the game long before we did but some woeful finishin put paid to that.
Not a vintage performance by any means, but a solid away game three days after a European away game. It’s not that easy to play these games, I saw Man City run through treacle for most of the game v West Ham and Liverpool got a goalless draw v Hull. We adjusted a few of the things we needed to adjust in our game, got the three points with a clean sheet to boot and I am happy with that. We now also have, for the first time this season, a week of uninterrupted training ahead of us with (apart from the injured players, of course) the whole squad at the training ground and that will do us a lot of good.
Spot on, Holic. I was doubly disappointed by the second goal, firstly because it sunk the Holic pound and secondly because I’d rather Vito hadn’t screwed up that badly – but that’s football. Up until we scored the second, there was always the chance that another brain fart might just result in one more draw to ‘a lowly team who this highly paid Arsenal team should have beaten and therefore the manager must be completely incompetent’
“That we havenโt (got a completely functioning midfield) was evident and must remain a mystery to the manager and his coaching staff”.
Hallelujah to that. Just how last year’s gold has been transformed so quickly to lead is difficult to fathom. Things can only get better and as you and many others have noted, taking three points and a clean sheet from a tricky away fixture is all that matters tonight before we move on to plotting, planning and pining for another three in the next game.
Having watched our stream I flicked over to El Classico. It wasn’t so long ago that I saw Jack Wilshere outperform Barcelona’s best in London and then in Barcelona. He and his mates are a mile off that level of performance right now but it IS in there somewhere and it can’t come out quickly enough for me. When we get back to the level we CAN play at, Alexis, Danny, Ollie and Theo will be scoring for fun. Happy thought?
Alexis Sanchez… Barca isn’t the same without him, their loss.. literally too!
Up The Arse!
๐
Our only hope at the moment is Alexis can carry us the whole season because there sure as shit ain’t anyone else in the team who has the balls to impose themselves on a game.
If half the starting XI took it upon themselves to work as hard as him I bet we’d have a bit more than 3 wins in 9. Churlish to greet a second away win on the trot with a complaint- believe me I know- but there’s no escaping the feeling that this season we are, how shall put it? A bit rubbish.
Had to say it because the only thing I felt at getting the win was relief.
Sanchez: Tangerine Orange boots first half; Sunshine Orange in the second! Very fetching Sir!
Very good write up, Holic,
and very fair in the light of a second viewing on Sky tonight.
I thought it looked better than my impression from behind some very stubborn adverts on a Russian stream this afternoon.
Considering an away performance in Europe on Wednesday night, I didn’t think we lacked effort, more that we suffered a little bit the tiredness.
Sanchez should be treated to a couple of spa days this week to pamper him back to fitness for next Saturday when he will have to play right wing, left back and holding midfielder, as all the normal choices will be injured or too old to get back on the pitch !
Captain Mertesacker looked sharper today , and young Mr Chambers improved a lot on Wednesday night. Sanchez and Alexis – there are two of them, right, such is the amount of work they get through – are both pure class.
Puns ? Well, it was far from a fairy tale performance today, but any win is better than A Loss in Sunderland.
I’ll get me coat ………… ๐
I’ve ordered my copy of ‘Invincible’ btw, Holic, after your fulsome recommendation on Amazon. Quite the thing. ๐
Two own goals gifted by Sunderland in effect. We created bugga all. ๐
If we must persist with Danny he should play on the wing where his speed could be useful. He’s just clogging up the middle currently. Poldi HAS to get another chance to lead the line in OG’s absence.
And let’s NOT persist with Santi until he’s found his missing feet in the reserves. He’s played every minute of the last two games without doing a single thing right. Lack of confidence for sure, he’s not THAT bad.
At least AW resisted the temptation to throw Theo on during that last 20 minutes when a Black Pussy equaliser looked odds on frankly. Another week’s recuperation will do him no harm.
Bellerin looked useful again during his cameo, made mistakes but recovered beautifully. He should be entrusted with the RB position allowing the rest of the backline to slide to the left. I’m not sure I don’t prefer Nacho to Gibbo at LB anyway. Not that injury is how I wanted to see him playing there. Not a lot of luck in his career, Gibbo.
But for the Hammers unlikely result we’d be back in 4th today. Whoda thunk it!
รskar
Whoda thunk it? I was expecting it.
What more can you say about Sanchez’s workrate? 90 minutes-plus and with the game won, he sprints towards the keeper on the off-chance of a fluffed clearance. How many other forwards would have bothered?
Trev: enjoy Invincible. I think you find it provokes some interesting comparisons with how AW is handling his present crop of players. The conversion of Freddie Ljungberg from a no 10 to a winger is just one example.
Otd: At this stage of the season Iโd prefer to be three points behind City and two points behind West Ham than six points behind City and one ahead of West Ham.
Ned … Oh I agree. I’m just mildly surprised, but of course pleased, to find us so close to the top considering how we’re playing. While we rue yet another woeful effort most other clubs have even less to enthuse about. Kinda reassuring. While I can’t see us challenging for the title, or even 2nd place, there doesn’t appear to be a lot of competition for 3rd and 4th. And I have no doubt where we will finish the season apropos WHU. Or WHL for that matter!
รskar
We had played a few games like this last season and had won by similar margin or 2-1. More or less solid defensive display and taking chances in the opposition end without ever looking very coherent for any significant stretch of the game. For instance the Southampton game where Boruc gifted Giroud the first goal and then we scored a second from the penalty.
But the overall performance — disjointed and lethargic as it is — looks so much poor this season because Alexis simply sets a standard that is far ahead of the rest of the team and the majority of the others look pedestrian in comparison, both in abilities but more importantly in willingness to work for the points. Even then we could have scored a couple of more goals in Santi of all people hadn’t forgotten to hit the target.
I hope until we get a genuine DM AND improve our attacking fluidity significantly we would not get back to the suicidal 4-1-4-1 with Arteta or Flamini alone at the base of the midfield and the rest are not keeping the opposition busy enough with movements and interchanges and do not have a good enough shape to protect against counter-attacks.
The only player other than Alexis in our squad who presses consistently and intelligently is Rosicky and I would very much love to see him and Alexis play together a few matches. The directness and uptempo simplicity of TR7’s game, aligned with his neat movements along the vertical and precise passing would suit Alexis well. Last season in FA Cup against the Spurs TR7 had scored a goal like the first one from Alexis today, and as a team of technical ‘wizards’ who would always have certain advantages against solitary defenders if pressed at the right time we score too few of those types of goals.
@28: By “…those types of goals …” I mean forcing the defense to commit mistakes on the ball by stretching the defense, isolating defenders and pressing high up. We too often allow the opposition to walk the ball well into the middle of the pitch from goal-kicks or once our first counter is thwarted we give up instead of pressing when the defense is still in a transitional shape.
Alexis by the numbers
http://news.arseblog.com/2014/10/alexis-sanchez-the-red-beast-of-london-by-the-numbers/
“Sanchez is both Arsenalโs leading goal scorer, leading playmaker (2 assists and tied with รzil for key passes), second leading dribbler (2.3 per game) and fourth on the team in tackles per game. ”
If we use him a bit carefully over the winter — this being his first season in PL — and Chile national set-up goes easy on him over their friendlies before the Copa America to have keep him fully fit and refreshed over March-May he will win a lot of matches on his own especially with defenses tiring and many managers having to come out and play in search of precious points.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20141025/ox-alexis-is-just-unbelievable
You bet he has an impact! Bloody good influence already and people are noticing. The rest of the team better pick up the slack and give the man some support!
When we have Ozil/Theo/Debuchy/Giroud/Kos/Gibbs/Diaby?! back, we’ll definitely be one of the top teams. Now hopefully we’ll have them all back and playing together at the SAME TIME!
Up The Arse.
Pleasing to see that Alex Song has matured into the outstanding DM that Arsene always said he would. He out-classed and out-muscled City’s much vaunted class and muscle imports yesterday and was the primary force behind West Ham’s win. The Corporal also had a very fine game for the Hammers. Clichy was his usual self for City – a liability.
Tis a pity that Alex fell out with Bouldy and was summarily dismissed. Never mind, all’s well that ends well, we’ve got a master defensive coach and the Hammers have one of the best DMs in the league who’s also a star at CB in the event that the Hammers’ lose one of their CBs to injury.
If memory serves me right would that be the denfensive midfield giant called song that we shipped out.
Who never really defended and wanted to spray hollywood type passes all over the place,and neglected his defensive duties time after time?requiring others to fill the gap he always managed to leave
Gilberto he was not…now he was just what we are missing…never ventured much over the half way line and covered his back four.
Unlike song who at times thought he was effing Pele.
I don’t know why there’s this view that being a good dribbler is important, when it comes to stats. It just gives people an excuse to find something of merit in an otherwise poor player. The most positive thing most people could come up with regarding Hleb, for example, was his dribbling stat.
All dribblers are is people who don’t pass the ball.
Great report Holic.
Your point about the midfield pin-points where our problems lie.
I would also concur entirely with Lars (@16) in the sense that I thought we played much better today than we have for some time. And for a change, it was hugely refreshing to note that Alexis was not the only player closing down the opposition. I thought our collective pressure and graft was admirable and this was the reason why Schesny was largely untroubled over 90mins. Up front we saw a myriad of moves falter and fail because of poor touch, bad decisions and a lack of playing time together. As you say Holic, if the midfield begins to click with the options we have up front, Alexis really could be a revelation.
Finally N7, if you don’t mind me saying, but the analogy of us choosing Alexis over Fabregas is somewhat void considering how different both players are. They both may have played with Barca, but therein the comparison ends. If anything, we chose Ozil / Jack and Rambo over Fabregas. And as one of the two solitary people at this bar during the summer who thought the decision to pass on Fabregas was utterly insane, I don’t think anyone can say we made the right decision given whats transpired so far.
Joe, I’m assuming I was the other one of the two?
However, Joe, I wasn’t greatly impressed by Cesc in our game versus Chelsea. I thought he was fourth or fifth best MF on the field that day. He’s a winner though, always has been and always will be.
Yes indeed, you were the other person of course BtM – I just didn’t want to use your good name to make my point without your kind permission.
I also agree that he wasn’t great when we played Chelsea – but in a game like that, I feel he would always get undue attention. Nevertheless, in a subdued performance, he still carved us open with one pass to create the second goal.
For me, the difference between Cesc and some of the players we currently have at the club is that Cesc has a proven track record of delivering consistently in the PL at the highest level, and the others, for all their talent, haven’t achieved that yet. And given a choice between the kids who’ve been given everything at such an early age and the ones who have the substance to leave home at 16 and go abroad to make it happen themselves – I would always always always favour of the latter.
@Joe
I’m not comparing Alexis and Cesc because they’re similar players.
I’m comparing them because they both moved this summer, and because the ยฃ30m odd that Arsene saved by not signing Fabregas was almost certainly spent on Alexis instead.
The comparison to Ozil is void: at the point we signed Ozil there was no opportunity to re-sign Cesc. You make choices from the options available to you.
The point is that this summer the boss had a choice: re-sign the Spaniard or go for the Chilean. He chose the latter. He’s taken pelters for Cesc’s form, so I think he deserves a bit of credit for bringing in our current player of the season.
Is it still British Summer Time in Holicland? ๐
Re: AOC comments on Alexis:
Turning nothing into something.
Isn’t that against the laws of particle physics? ๐
@bt8b,
Not if Alexis turns a grape into a delicious dry Chilean! No aberration of the laws of physics there; just a darn good alchemist!
@tindle goober,
I agree regarding Song, he looks a much more matured and better player now after the clear outing he got at Barca and was forced to step up just to sit on their bench. A couple of Hammers’ mates of mine said he was MoTM by s distance yesterday against the Cit$h! Now would a lump in August to have that improved old boy back been a bad one? I don’t think so. Leaving Cesc was a good call but for him to choose the Chavs with Maureen to return too means he’s now a cunt! Feck him!
Cesc is the past, did have a great run but that’s ended now. We probably couldn’t afford him when he was available and besides the money could be well spent elsewhere and weren’t we looking for more defensive players rather than attacking ones?!
Agree that Cesc would probably have improved the team but he’s a luxury and not a necessity.
Can’t believe I may be forced to hope that Man U wins this just to make sure Chelski doesn’t touch our ‘Invincible’ record…. lose-lose situation here.
Well said @ 37 N7. It’s all water under the bridge now and focus should much more appropriately be on seeing the truly excellent richness of midfield talent that Arsenal has at its disposal reach its potential. I think it will, although we may be into the second half of the season before we start playing like world beaters again, by which time hopefully (but probably not) everyone will have forgotten that we only drew against Leicester. How very dare we!
I’ve never really known what a Hollywood pass is, Tindle. I thought they made movies there not passed footballs around. Now, if you’re talking about the kind of balls Alex used to float into RvP in his highest scoring season, Yep, that’s the Alex Song I’m talking about.
Here’s how I remember him. I think I was probably his only fan at the time of is departure.
w.youtube.com/watch?v=b8khiA5Io1s
Btw, you’ve probably realized that it’s a slow Sunday and the only reason I can’t suck my gobstopper is because my tongue’s lodged firmly in that part of my cheek ๐
Or here even.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8khiA5Io1s
Worth a look. Fond memories.
Hi all
After watching the game mid week mostly between the gap in my fingers I was hopping for better yesterday. It could be argued it was better but by no where near enough. Only through Alexis industry and sheer will did we win yesterday. He was alert and up for the game, sadly he did seem to be the only one.
AW said we are opperating at 99%, this doesnt bode well if that is true. We are 8 points which could turn back into 11 points behind Chelski with 9 games gone. It is totally possible we are out of the running for the PL after just 9 games !!! Is this what we are all paying top dollar for ? AW said he was happy with the performance and we are close to hitting top form. I have not seeing any evidence of this at all.
I am not going into who we should have signed before the window closed or how the fuck we have a whole team injured again, as the teams we put out during the week and yesterday should have had more than enough to dispatch those teams without me loosing 3 stone in sweat.
A very frustrated gooner ๐
I’m delighted to see the universal praise for Sanchez. It’s thoroughly deserved and he has settled very quickly. Yesterday he looked particularly effective in a no.10 role and it is a role he is used to playing. Fortunately age can play elsewhere as when Ozil gets back we might have a dilemma .
By the same token a friend who went to Sunderland has been blasting my ear since the game about how poor Cazorla was. He is something of a bellwether for the team. He is probably the least consistent player in the team, his form varies from brilliant to indifferent with no obvious indication of what is to come next. His best can be stunning and laced with excellent goals but he has been very poor as well at times. When he is off colour his finishing can be very awry. It’s a real dilemma for Wenger particularly as Sanchez aside the team has been very erratic. Oxlade- Chamberlain is showing a similar tendency to veer from brilliant to dreadful. He was awful last week against Hull but is a magnificent player on his day. Jack is similar and this coupled with the injuries we have is meaning that we have been unable to outplay teams like we did last season. This is reducing our creativity and making us more vulnerable on the break.
Having identified the problem the solution is likely to lie in hoping the players stay injury free and build up a better understanding and rhythm because Sanchez may well be the most exciting attacking player in the league even if his goals tally doesn’t equal Diego Costa. Congrats to Wenger and co for identifying him as our main target ( or our alternate target to Reus if you believe the rumours). This has to be where we set our sights if we are ambitious
Cynic @ 34: “All dribblers are is people who donโt pass the ball”
Does that list include Maradona or Ronaldo9? Or Messi for that matter?
BB @ 43: If Cesc was available — and based on reports including hints from Arsene it seems that he had already agreed personal terms with the scums back in January — and was brought back then it would have sent a message to the young players that it is okay to destabilize a whole season and boycott trainings etc. to engineer a move and if things then don’t work out with a Real or a Barca or a Bayern then there is always Arsenal to fall back on.
Based on reports from people in the know — here and in other places — Song apparently had to leave because of ill-disciplines and hubris especially after the Barca offer. He was defensively ill-disciplined now and then in matches but he was actually getting rather good in many matches in the 11-12 season and had a few stellar performances, dovetailing well with Arteta who used to cover for him when he went galloping forward. I had hopes that he will eventually become more disciplined and would be our DM for a few years to come. That didn’t happen which is understandable, but problematically we didn’t fill in the void of a physically imposing midfielder at the base after he left, an absence which continues to trouble us two season later.
BTM @ 44: Add me in to the list of his supporters when he left. There were reports that he did become too big for his boots in training sessions etc. and if even Arsene couldn’t manage a player whom he actually raised then I guess there were no other options.
If the rumor of a training ground punch up with Bouldy was true, Dr F, he had no future at Arsenal and rightly so. Wouldn’t surprise me to see him at a much bigger club than West Ham by the end of the season though. At his best he is extremely good.
btm: I, too, always thought there was a good player somewhere inside young Song. I wonder if AW’s faith in him when he mostly kept that good player inside well and truly hidden (see any one of a zillion drinks in this bar at the time), didn’t make him complacent, too believing of AW’s reassurances of his talent. Sometimes it takes a change of place to take a person out of their comfort zone. His time at Barca, where he barely made the bench, may have been the prod he needed to make himself kick on as a player. That prod may never have come if he had stayed with us.
@48 DocFaust
I am in the camp of not wanting Cesc back because we do indeed have too many attacking midfielders(when they are not injured).
And if what you say is true that terms were agreed way beforehand, then good riddance!
When we get our first team back, we will dominate! Mark my words!
๐
TTG @ 47: Our current Arsenal line-up no longer lacks experience — except for the odd Bellerin or Martinez — and even youngsters like Ox or Campbell have been around the blocks. And I think the team management can do better with benching players who fail to be consistent and rotate. It does look like from the outside that the players may not worry too much about the consequences of poor workrate and basic mistakes. I am a big fan of both Ox and Santi — and Ox I think is the most promising of our English core in the long run as he is the most versatile and intelligent, just an opinion — but after the last two performances they should be benched in favor or Campbell and TR7 and then when given a chance again from the bench they will have to prove themselves.
I realize that we cannot just keep on rotating if too many players fail to be consistent but a culture of fighting for one’s place in the team would serve us better.
I agree with all of that @ 47 TTG. You mention Ox and Santi, I’d add Rambo and JW to a list of excellent talent that has, unfathomably, seemed to have lost its ability or confidence to come anywhere close to the level shown regularly and often.
I think a stinger physical presence would help to provide mrs balance (Flamini really raised his game at Chelski where I thought the MF in general and Sant/Jack in particular played one of their better games). I’d like to see Diaby get a run. I’m also expecting to see Arsene take another run up the hill at attracting a top class talent in January.
I’m loving Alexis. He deserves every bit of praise he gets but I think there’s much more to come from him as his integration into the team continues and his understanding and anticipation of what his team mates are about to do improves. He runs up the occasional blind alley and passes the ball to no one anywhere on occasions. The same goes for Danny. Time and practice will take care of much of that and we’ll boiling on super-heat at 110 degrees before long ๐
it was a nice win and it shows us something. All the games that arsenal start without willshere are those that arsenal win, or arsenal cameback and draw when wilshere is substituted or even win pls re watch all the arsenal game this season you will prove me right. So 4now wilshere is irrelavant to arsenal.
BTM @ 50: Yes, for instance that home match against Dortmund when he scored the first goal, or that match against in-form Newcastle when TV5 earned us the winner in the dying moments. He has all the ingredients. However he would be 28 next summer and may be won’t earn himself a starting berth in a top PL club at that time (unless you consider Liverpool or ManU a top club, ha ha). He is still a Barca player, merely on loan with West Ham, and at the end of the season if he impresses here Barca may want him back in the fold as a more regular sub or sell him. At that age, with his abilities and physicality but pace probably dropping he might find Italian or French leagues more to his liking.
If Cesc was free,then maybe I will take him back. I don’t care If he ends up with the highest assists in the PL, I am happy we didn’t take him back. I know our MF has not been up to par, and he probably would have made it a little better, not taking him back was probably one of the few good decisions the boss made this summer, of course apart from getting Alexis. All I need from ozil when he is fit is to prove to the boss and the fans why he is a better option than Fabregas,and all this talk about Cesc coming back will be laid to rest once and for all.
@55, Lurky made the same point in the last drinks. Statistically speaking it is kind of uncanny that we scored most of our goals this season with Jack not on the field. But at the same time two of our best goals against one of the toughest opponents had Jack’s contribution. So it is too early to make too much of that stats.
Jack’s game can benefit a lot from simplicity, patience and cool head and as many had pointed out earlier when everyone is fit he probably doesn’t start matches for us. How he ends this season will tell us a lot more about his role in Arsenal in the next few years.
@57: “not taking him back was probably one of the few good decisions the boss made this summer” .
I would say all the decisions Arsene made this summer were terrific, it is the decisions he didn’t make that are troubling us. ๐
Ospina, Debuchy, Welbeck, Chambers, Alexis, keeping Campbell in the squad, letting TV5 go … all excellent decisions.
Not buying a genuine DM or another defensive cover on the other hand are not … but I think we will rectify at least one of those in January.
Song didn’t have many fans when he left us. Being one of them, I had to find and to paste my drink from that period on the matter, Bould “incident” included.
20 Aug 2012 at 12:27
134lurky oliva
Just for the record, Iโve heard that Song wasnโt dressing room troublemaker in the past. He became one, only couple of days ago, knowing that his agent arranged Cesc reunion. The story of his lack of discipline this past week and his conflict (physical?) with Bould is around the corner, waiting for the transfer to finalize to show up.
However, I think that we lost a very important player, with tons of PL experience and it will not be easy to find a player to replace him. If MโVilla is that player, we are downgrading. My view is based on just few last season Ligue One Rennes matches, where he had no impact, passing sideways, negative approach, was moving to slow, to Denilson-esque. But maybe I have missed his quality ones.
Get in, 1-1 in Newcastle.:-)
Having a laugh as Spurs concede goal in first 6 seconds of 2nd half!
Yes get in!
Cue more laughter! Spurs 1 – Toon 2.
Its 1-2 at Newcastle!
Doc faustus@59, yes all what you said.
We are struggling at the moment to find any consistency in our play. Thanks to Sanchez we are keeping ourselves in the top half of the table but with difficulty.
I have looked at all the obvious reasons for our malaise, world cup hangovers, injuries, new signings finding their feet and losses of form to important first team players.
The HFB receives plenty of relevant criticism for his failure to convert great chances and for his lack of pace. However, in our 4-1-4-1 system his body strength in taking on powerful CBs, holding up the ball and bringing the mid fielders into play in the final third did bring success and I think we are missing him in a big way.
Welbeck for all his pace is light weight in comparison, can’t play that sort of game and perhaps we should change our system to get the best out of him and the attacking players.
Ramsey and Jack were the main beneficiaries of Giroud’s style of play. Their drop in form might be down to the absence of the Frenchman?
its time for ratation, i thing the more blance team 4 now should should be up front poldi, lelt attack welbeck right attack sanchez 10 rosicky behind ramsey arteta or plamini arteta. Or 10 carzola 7 rosicky 11 sanchez up welbeck.
Scenes at WHL. ๐
The gift that keeps giving. Spurs cock it up 1 -2.
The Lillywhite Cunts! The gift-horse that just keeps on giving! ๐
Burnley gamely trying to outplay teams that are better footballing teams than they are. Fairly easily outplayed by Everton today. We should have too much for them next weekend. Good game for Theo and Abou to make their comebacks. Turf Moor is a nice looking little ground. I fancy a visit when we play up there.
Two insipid looking squads listed for Mancs v Chelski. A draw would be a good outcome and is what I’m expecting.
“…the ยฃ30m odd that Arsene saved by not signing Fabregas was almost certainly spent on Alexis instead…”
N7 – I disagree entirely. You just don’t know that. And where does that logic sit with the 4 other players outside of Alexis that we bought this summer? And its obvious we are still a DCM / CH short with plenty of money left in the bank. So much so in fact, that the owner can take 3m for “essential services” and every season ticket holder can suffer a 3% hike in prices. There was no reason we couldn’t have bought Cesc only that it was Wenger’s choice not to.
“at the point we signed Ozil there was no opportunity to re-sign Cesc. You make choices from the options available to you.”
And again I disagree. We had the first option to sign Cesc. Cesc himself has made that explicitly clear. And I don’t think there’s a person at this bar who could honestly say that a player like Cesc wouldn’t have strengthened our squad. He is a much better player than many (and arguably all) of the players we currently have in midfield. And so far this season, its looking more and more like what it is: just a terribly poor decision.
Joe@72, so were we suppose to be waiting for his DNA not to match that of Barcelona before we make our move. It’s rare for Wenger to bring in past players unless they are free (Flamini). This was our captain, and he left us after signing an eight year contract. So are we suppose to bring back Hleb, Adebayor,Song,Nasri and whoever left us those years. Folks keep acting like Fabregas won every title available during his time with us. I didn’t want him to leave, but after he left that was it. Just like Mourinho said about Lampard,” that love story was over, when he decided to play for another EPL team”. I just hope Ozil comes back stronger and start playing to the best of his ability.
I agree with you Joe about the decision not to sign Cesc. I don’t think managing the piggy bank was the primary consideration. AW just decided he already had enough or better in midfield. I also suspect that not signing a new DM was not a financial decision either. I suspect that AW just couldn’t find one that fit his demanding specifications that was available.
Drogba isn’t just our Nemesis now!
@Joe
Cesc didn’t move last summer. We signed Ozil last summer. First option isn’t much good if the player isn’t moving.
I didn’t mention the lack of DM, but if we’re going to discuss it then I said at the end of the summer I thought that was a massive miss and should have been our first order of business. You’ll not find me disagreeing on that score.
You can argue we signed other players in the summer, but I think that’s being a little wilful. Football clubs work from set budgets. It seems fairly self-evident to me that had we signed Fabregas we would have been unlikely to sign Sanchez (what would have been the alternative? No replacement for Sagna or Vermaelen?). I don’t really understand where Ozil comes into it – there was no scenario where Wenger chose him over Fabregas; events simply did not play out in such a fashion.
Not going to die in a ditch over it, by any means. Just seems a little unfair to me that Wenger gets stick for the good form of players he didn’t sign and no credit for the good form of players he did sign.
Yes. Get in. The Championship is saved!
Never thought i would cheer the dutch skunks (since the time he turned traitor) goal in a million years …. oh the irony of it
Draw in the Manchester snorefest as predicted. Sets us up nicely to be within six points by Christmas (also as predicted ๐ ).
Fabulous weekend to be a Gooner:
Vs Citeh : +3 Points
Vs Spuds : +3 Points
Vs L’Pool : +2 Points
Vs Chelski : +2Points
We’ll be right in there by next May. Mark my words.
…….and we did it with serious injuries causing multiple absentees, after an away game on Wednesday and without playing particularly well.
When we have our main men back and find our mojo, we might even compete properly.
Lurky, right: the best result we could have had from this match.
Joe/NBN/N7 : Even discounting all the evidence of Cesc essentially engineering a move in 10-11 season by refusing to play etc., has he really been that great a player in the last few years?
His 09-10 season with us was phenomenal, but after his return from the World Cup he had a season to forget not only because of injuries and poor form but also poor attitude. Think back to that Barca away game where his playing, leadership, body language everything reeked of a player who has little respect for the club or its fan, despite what his words might say.
Cesc-Diego Costa combination has been excellent against mediocre opposition but how ordinary Cesc has been against us (that pass for the second goal was good but) and then today against ManU! I don’t know how much of La Liga you had watched last few years but in all the big matches Cesc had flattered to deceive, when he was given the chance to play his ‘natural’ Xavi role he was ordinary with his lack of organization, unwillingness to create space and simply relying on the excellent through balls. In the false nine position he scored a handful and created many great chances — his passing abilities remain one of the best in the world — but there were reasons why he had failed to win over the Barca fan base and why despite an aging Xavi and a departing Alcantara he couldn’t cement his position at the center.
And as the ManU-Chelsea game showed again today a player like Matic at the base of the midfield — or YaYa or someone of that mould — is invaluable in the modern game. They screen the defense, cover for the full backs, break up play, organize the shape in the middle but equally importantly are superb at turning defense into attack. It is kind of sad that the manager to have introduced the best archetype of that role in the modern game has been somewhat ignoring that in the last few years.
Good weekend of results and happy (cough) that Van Skunk scored that equaliser. Kudos to referee Dowd (cough again) for facing up to Chav$ki
systematic / rotational fouling with the issuing of yellow cards and how ironic that Ivanovic’s red resulted in the equaliser. Seems Dowd must gave been watching our recent game against them
Onwards & upwards.
Joe: I agree with N7 on this one. I absolutely agree (like I suppose more or less everyone does) that Cesc is good enough to play for us, but I also think that buying him would probably have meant no Sanchez and in that case my choice would be Sanchez.
Also agree with Faustus that Matic is the player we really could have done with so far if we’re talking Chelsea players.
Heh @ 80 : Bath knows ๐
Doc Faustus@81, couldn’t have said it any better. Ozil just have to improve his game and I think people will stop this whole love affair with Cesc.
I would say this about the resigning Cesc issue.
I’m not sure there ever was an issue of Cesc vs anyone else, at any time, this year or last. Cesc was not available last year, full stop.
This summer it would have made perfect sense from a quality perspective to sign Cesc, with Arteta, Rosicky and Flamini in the twilight years of their careers, and Diaby sadly barely worth considering.
AW has always been a very honorable man, whatever you think of him, and has never sought to stand in the way of anyone’s career if they were not central to his plans.
But Cesc had chosen to sign an eight year contract and, as AW built the team around him, decided to bale out after three, even refusing to play in matches to force his way out.
There has to come a point, even for Arsene Wenger, where his patience runs out and his loyalty is broken. I know there is scant room for sentiment in football, but I personally believe – no more than that – that Wenger was not going to entertain someone who had let him down so badly.
In any case, Arsenal should not be a refuge for anyone’s rejects – and there will be a reason why Barca were prepared to let him go.
Tabs, I can hear you yawning already mate. ๐
#donetodeath. ๐
Hear, hear Trev. (Particularly your first few paragraphs.)
COYG
Completely agree with Dr F & Trev on the whole tiresome Cesc debate.
Incidentally, I find it an unnecessary process for people on this forum to hysterically panic and second-guess Wenger every time an ex-Arsenal player has a somewhat decent game (i.e. Song/Cesc) and draws a crude parallel to our travails if we’ve failed to play well or win that weekend. It seems to conveniently forget the reasons and complexities for why that player moved on, and says more about that fan’s proclivity to reactionary, self-fulfillingly negative supporter soundbites! I’m far more interested in focusing my belief/support/attentions on the 3 extremely talented ‘works in development’ that we presently have in the centre of our midfield in Wilshere, Ramsey and Ozil (each of whom, might I add, are younger than Cesc, and would have played significantly better this season with a Matic alongside them).
Cesc left of his own volition, and has returned to England at least 3-4 years earlier than he might have expected, slightly sheepishly and with his tail between his legs at never really establishing himself at Barca. Of course, we could have technically afforded him, and no top club should ever be shy of adding good players when they come available per se – but our transfer fund and squad priorities did not extend to attacking midfield this summer (I accept it should have extended to more defensive reinforcements than we were able to muster), and Cesc was always much more of a logical footballing option for Chelski trying to fill the void of Lampard.
Trev, spot on.
I think that refusing to sign Fabregas has nothing to do with signing Alexis and that it is absolutely not a money related issue.
I believe that if Arsene wanted Fabregas he would have signed both him and Alexis, because he always said that if quality is available we are ready to spend. I am not saying that he believed that Fabregas would not improve our team, he would and Arsene knows that.
I just don’t think that sport reasons were primarily taken into consideration when the decision not to sign him was made. And I think that no matter if Fabregas score 100 goals and make 200 assists this season, Arsene was right not to sign him.
Arsene is very loyal and honest person and as a one he expects loyalty and honesty from the people he works with. Sometimes it is very naive and snakes like Fabregas take advantage of it.
Fabregas doesn’t deserve to be Arsenal player. Fabregas doesn’t deserve to work with Arsene ever again. Fabregas is exactly where he belongs- at Chelsea under Maureen. Let him root there.
Chelsea started the season too quickly.
Didn’t Mourinho learn anything from watching Arsenal last year? ๐
“and says more about that fanโs proclivity to reactionary, self-fulfillingly negative supporter soundbites!”
First time that descriptions been used for me. What a hoot!
Not aimed at you BTM – I enjoy your posts! It’s more the ppl who do the inane running commentary as games unfold on a Sat & Sun, and – for example yesterday, when Song did well v MC – suddenly started using it as another stick to beat Wenger with.
I also think it’s a simple fact of human nature, especially in something as primal as being a football fan, that supporting can on occasions bring out the cynic or self-fulfillingly negative in people who are that way inclined. Just as some people are eternally optimistic, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It was more of a general observation than a slight on one specific poster…
Mystery cleared up. TV5 didn’t decamp to Barca. He’s in the new series of Homeland .
Almost a Carlsberg sporting weekend with none of our big rivals winning . Tottenham who aren’t a big rival but more a local embarrassment have lost 6o% of their home matches already this season including games against the might of West Brom and Newcastle. Pochettino out!
Tty. Re: Pochettino, Danny Murphy on the match commentary seemed about to say exactly what you suggest. He was getting apoplectic with Pochettino for not bringing on Lennon instead of Lamela earlier than he did. He went so far as to accuse Pochettino of favoring Lamela because the two of them were “born in the same country.”
Massively entertaining stuff. ๐
Lars,
Thanks for the comments.
I’ve always known I was in the minority on this one, but then again I was all summer long too, and I still am, despite the fact that Cesc has scored 2 and provided 8 assists so far in the league – more than our entire midfield put together.
My point primarily is I think we should have signed Cesc along with the other 5 acquisitions we made this summer (all of which were superb acquisitions, especially Sanchez). There is no objective reason why we couldn’t have both Cesc, Ozil and Sanchez in the same squad – apart from Wengers choosing differently in that regard.
As for Wenger operating to a budget, well nobody knows what budget Wenger may or may not have been subjected to. If anything, I think he was under very real pressure to spend. Considering the recent accounting figures as well as the positive way that FFP operated for us, its seems quite clear to me that there was adequate funding in place.
And even if there wasn’t, he could have done exactly what Mourinho did, and cull his existing squad (getting rid of Lampard) to make room for such a talent. Whatever peoples views on Rambo / Ozil / Jack are on one side of the coin, can we seriously sit here and say that Rosicky, Arteta, Cazorla, Flamini, Le Coq, or Zelalem are so much more talented players that they deserve a place ahead of a player of the calibre of Cesc ? It was just a terrible decision and its playing out that way so far this season.
Trev,
I don’t think there is any room for honour or integrity in a game like Soccer. All you have to do is look at Fergie or Jose for proof on that front. Players are paid millions, managers too – including Wenger. We had a choice to refuse the move for Fabregas because he was under contract. We refused. It was AFC who ceded the contractual rights. We then had a choice to buy a top class player back at the right money. We refused. The football decision, imo, is to sign Fabregas. The moral decision is to do what we did. And it makes absolutely no sense to me no matter what way I look at it.
Rarely am I disappointed at the tone and quality of debate here. Definitely not tonight. Thank you all.
It’s a long slow drag to 100 and your clock is an hour out, holic.
So is it too early to worry about Abramovich buying an undefeated PL season?
BMBD
Yes, Lonestar.
As for Cesc I suspect only AW’s pride prevented us seeing him in red and white again. A shame, but it’s been done to death so let’s move on puhleeze.
Anyone looking for an assist?
รskar
I’ll take it to add to my 2 goals and 8 assists. This is the one I will treasure most.
Darn,
Missed sneaking in to nick an easy one.!
Cescโs record for Barca was statistically much better overall than his for Arsenal. A goal every 245 minutes played and an assist every 181 minutes vs a goal every 419 minutes and an assist every 259 minutes.
But his numbers were getting worse with each of his three seasons at Barca:
A goal every 3.2 games in 2011-12, but a goal every 4.2 games by 2013-14;
an assist every 2.4 games in 2011-12, but an assist every 2.5 games by 2013-14;
a goal every 221 minutes played in 2011-12, but a goal every 288 minutes played by 2013-14;
an assist every 166 minutes played in 2011-12, but an assist every 170 minutes played by 2013-14.
Seems there was a reason Barca let him and his DNA go.
Thoughts with the family of Senzo Meyiwa, captain of the South Africa national side who has been shot dead. Time to remember that football is only the most important of the least important things.
@ Gregoire,
Certainly there was never a need to re-sign Fabregas so I agree with you on that. However, Song on the other-hand, a loan deal wouldn’t have been a bad thing to add depth, experience and defensive- minded muscle to the squad. He could’ve covered both the DM and the CD positions.,Players can learn and grow elsewhere and return as better players than when they left. So far, Song looks just such a player after his Barca sojourn. Another example is Gervinho at Roma. I don’t see any “proclivity” or “reactionary…negative…soundbites” in such observations. I think it’s called analytical and theoretical debate! We are all theoretical in this bar which invariably is built upon proclivity but we all want our club to be run the right way, play the beautiful way, and succeed the correct way!
Not Pistorius again, Ned?
รskar
I’m not surprised Song and Gervinho look better in less competitive leagues, Dan. Neither is much missed by us. Not one tenth as much as Fab anyway.
รskar
If we begin from the assumption that Wenger’s budget is unknowable and therefore cannot be considered then – yes – failing to sign Fabregas was an error. But that seems unrealistic to me. Let’s face it, we don’t know the background details of the Fabregas transfer either (did he force his way out? Did he want to come back? Does he insist on playing Simply Red in the dressing room before games), yet we still make plenty of assumptions about those.
We had the second highest net spend in the league this summer, after Utd. I don’t believe there was another ยฃ35m in the kitty, and if there was then it absolutely wanted spending on a DM.
As far as the raising of funds: if we’d had the good fortune (and that’s being charitable to Chelsea as the deal still looks deeply suspect to me) for an oil club to have offered us ยฃ50m for Vermaelen, who enjoyed a similar status in our squad to that of luiz at the Chavs, then I’m certain he’d have used the extra dough to sign the Catalan. If you’d asked anyone in this bar prior to the summer whether the manager would (rather than should) pass on Fabregas given the opportunity you’d have got “no”s all round.
Anyway, the Cesc stuff is by the by. My main point was that we should worry less about players we didn’t sign and instead enjoy those we did. Unfortunately, my comment has triggered another round of discussing a player we didn’t sign, so that worked out well, didn’t it!
Drink on the bar for Joe. Poke in the eye for anyone in a Chelsea shirt.
COYG
Joe, very good @ 95! Gregoire, not one bit of offense taken! You write very well and I enjoy your contributions here. ๐
Good, N7 – and there it rests ๐
Song had a blinder on Sat and it would be nice to have him in the squad yes. As for this Cesc obsession it’s rather getting a bit tedious now. He left us in the deep when his DNA bollocks took him home. He didn’t think twice about his DNA when he left for Chelski. Nor his Barca friends gave interviews about the latter.
As someone has already mentioned above we don’t really know the gory details about his transfer. If he refused to play for us because he wanted to go then that really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I know he always spoke highly of Arsene, now there is a nice lad Move along please son!
Love story over!
ATG @110, “LOVE STORY OVER”. That’s all to it over and done move on people.
Forget about Cesc and Song, the boss sees the future in Jack and Ramsey even though they are misfiring right at this moment. There are games coming up where they can find their form again and Arsenal can move up the table bit by bit.
The big relief this week is to have no game on Wednesday, instead the team can do a lot of training and practice sessions and perhaps iron out a few stray problems that have crept into the team play.
Love story over – after my super strike @ 100?
That’s it then – I’m off for some sangria and churros with my new bestie, brave John Terry.
Adios – I may be back.
Otd@105: ๐ Seems to have been a burglary that went wrong.
Can we have 10 more Sanchez’s in the team please. What an attitude and what class. He gets upset with his team mates and yes there is a sense some of them seem exasperated with him not passing but then thats a small matter which will get sorted out. He is simply a terrific talent and a wonderful never give up attitude.
We were not good, it was a given and at times we just were comical with our finishing but then with all that, if we get 3 points i will take it eyes closed.
Arsenal need to win ugly and continue to do so till the injured players are back and there is a sense of understanding between all and sundry. We need to just be the beneficiaries ala yesterday of other teams dropping points.
Burnley next and even if we play a bit better than we did saturday, we can win the game. Theo and Ramsey should start that and that could mean there will be sufficient pace to exploit the opposition. This also means, we need to quicken up our pace of passing for we are pedestrian most times.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20141027/arteta-how-we-gave-alexis-freedom
โWe wanted to give a bit more freedom to Alexis, playing a bit behind Danny [Welbeck], more like a 4-4-2, which we haven’t played for a while. It worked – I think Alexis did very well today so we’re happy for him.
—————-
Alexis would do well as a striker, lone or otherwise!
Hopefully once Theo comes back we’ll see Alexis down the middle.
๐
You want to see a great Arsenal goal scored last week?
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/golazos/ainsley-maitland-niles-17-scores-absolute-beauty-in-arsenal-u21-win-v-stoke-gif/
Doesn’t get much better than this, does it? ๐
Gnabry also scored one in his return and apparently both Crowley and Zelalem had good games.
BTW, if you haven’t seen the highlights of that U-21 away game at Stoke give it a try in Arsenal player. Three excellent goals and an uncharacteristically poor miss from Akpom. And yes, a Stoke player seeing a red card towards the end of the game. ๐
@DocFaust
It at first looked like a chip..but what a nice shot, goalie never getting close to that and dipping right in too!
We sure have a future, and I hope some of these players are able to make it to the first team and that we do not lose too many of them to other clubs.
Itching to see a fit Giroud -Theo- Ozil- Alexis in the squad! ๐
BB @ 119: We sure tend to attract and recruit a lot of technically gifted youngsters. Most don’t eventually make it — a JET or an Eisfield are two good examples of technically excellent footballers but with other aspects missing — as attitude, fitness, work rate, tactical discipline etc. become the differentiator. Was interesting to note that Zelalem in this match and recently has been playing from a deeper position, I guess to strengthen the defensive/tackling side of his game. He is the next big hope, but I think Chuba if given a run at the top level (most likely by a club he would be loaned to) would establish himself quickly.
About seeing all of those players you mentioned together, well all I will say is that this is Arsenal we are talking about and hoping to see all of your best players fit at the same time is an Utopian aspiration at best, an avenue to self-inflicted agony at worst. ๐
It is without a doubt that when we have all our key players Fully Fit, we shall be able to beat even the best of them in our league (even chelski, solid as they may look esp. with Courtois their goalie).
I have a feeling that some (see Ozil) if not most of our first team players were playing many games at less than their reputations and capabilities suggests. (due to existing injuries?!.. speculation) That would explain the cause over time, of their major injuries now. (more speculation).
Players should not break down that easily.. one only has to look at Alexis as an example. (Would have quoted Messi but am not sure if he really is human or a genetically modified football mutator!)
We definitely are moving in the right direction but probably not at the pace that Arsene himself wants, can’t assume he’ll be here too much longer. (The fans of course are in more of a hurry!)
We are probably owed a league title win or two and definitely a champions league win which hopefully we’ll get to see in the next few years.
๐
BB @ 121: Wilde for you, “Basis of optimism is sheer terror.”
I have no expectations from this or coming seasons except that I can freely complain when they are not achieved. ๐
Ox says Alexis reminds him of Suarez.
Flamini says Alexis is up there with Henry and V.Persie.
What a player and he decided to join us too!
๐
Dr F @117 & 120: Very nice goal. Not sure what an Arsenal player is doing shooting from that distance, but we’ll let that pass…
Does seem there is some highly promising talent in the latest crop of youngsters. There is a mathematical inevitability that most of any generation of Academy players coming up won’t make it to the first team. You are right that technical ability is a necessary but not sufficient condition for making that very demanding cut.
@ 123
I think the Suarez comparison is absolutely bang on. In terms of his quality and work rate, he’s probably ahead of where the toothy one was during his first season with the Scousers – it’s amazing that he’s settled in as quickly as he has.
If we can get the rest of the attack firing properly around him then we will have an absolute world beater on our hands.
N7 @ 124: ๐
Despite being a generally free-spirited thinker I think Arsene has his own dogmas about football. I guess you must have some core beliefs to sustain the methodologies but it is noticeable that many players who have enjoyed the occasional spectacular in previous stages tend to indulge much less in those once promoted to the first team. I think we err too much on the side of ‘percentage’ safety when it comes to shooting from a distance …
7amkickoff has his typically meaty statistical analysis about the very comparison you two are making:
http://news.arseblog.com/2014/10/alexis-sanchez-the-red-beast-of-london-by-the-numbers/
I meant NBN @ 124: My sincerest apologies to you and N7 for the confusion…too hasty in typing in between work. ๐
Heh. I was wondering how on earth you’d got from “Sanchez is a bit like Suarez” to “meaty statistical analysis of shooting from distance” so quickly there!
N7 @ 128: Sorry — the first paragraph was about the shooting from distance and the second one was about the Sanchez-Suarez comparison, as analyzed by 7am … ๐
I am going to stop for a while now as otherwise I am giving multi-tasking a bad name. ๐
Oh, don’t stop now, Dr Faustus – I just got the dictionary out ! ๐
Trev 130….ooh matron ๐
Dr Faustus 130 – the perfect summation of a gooner.
Whoops Dr F. Should refer to your 122. (Seems misquoting drink nos is catching).
Latest rumour:
The naysayers could be wrong.
Re: BB @121.
When we get all our players Fully Fit is that when the other clubs’ players will become Maximally Mental?
Sure hoping so. ๐
Trev @ 130: I read your quip and ten different witty responses flooded to my mind immediately, with varying degrees of sharpness. You know how the reflexes work…but I am not going to post any of those. It is too easy to make funny at others’ personalty quirks, and not entirely civil. I would rather write a humorous story about quarks and how they are so strongly tied to each other. ๐
But, if this really matters to you, I apologize for my sesquipedalian excesses, now and then. ๐
Uplympian @ 132: Thanks. Yes, I think so too.
8 ball @ 134: I remember how the entire Arsenal fan base waited season after season to have Cesc, RVP, TR7, Diaby and Eduardo to be all fit together and terrorizing opposition defenses. Those five probably played just a handful of matches together.
Hope this time around we have much much better medical/fitness policy and people, and a bit better luck, to avoid such a fiasco and the kind of attacking line-up BB wants to see is out there on the field more often than not.
Dr Faustus,
You really musn’t read bad intentions into every remark.
It was a light hearted quip, possibly referencing reality, but bearing no malice at all. ๐
Did you mean ‘quirks’ @135, btw, or were you really goung to write a humorous story about very low fat cheese spreads ?
Good luck, if so ! ๐
By the way, Dr F, I would prefer sesquipedalian loquaciousness to mere ‘excesses’. ๐
Trev @137: I meant these — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark — and their strong interactions. For an inspiration I would refer to this unbelievable (in every level) of all books: Cosmicomics by Italo Calvino.
Thanks for the wishes. I had tried my hand at stories involving sub-atomic particles before when I was actually a physicist, but being closer to the ground the effort had turned out to be more journalistic and less fantastic. ๐
But back to football: would be interesting to know how many matches these five — Cesc, RVP, TR7, Diaby and Eduardo — ever played together. More than or less than 50?
Dr.F
I’m guessing much less than 50. RVP, Diaby and Rosicky missed an enormous amount of time and Eduardo was out for many months in 2007/8. I wouldn’t be surprised if those specific five played no more than ten games together. It is even possible they never started a game together!
Thanks for the report ‘holic.
The game wasn’t on any of my channels, plus I had too many things to do Saturday so couldn’t stay at home stream hunting. Ended up at Merv’s Irish Bar in Alkmaar, where I had watched the F.A. Cup Final a few months prior, but unfortunatly, and not because of a lack of trying, a channel broadcasting the game could not be found, so I ended watching the Lpool game in the company of a few gents of the Mickey persuasion, proper football fans, from the mersey area. That game was pretty pants, but the beer was good as was the conversation, coupled with the fact that Arsenal won, a most enjoyable afternoon was had.
It’s nice to speak to other fans, it puts things into perspective, a perspective that is easy to lose when you’re in an Arsenal bubble. When you hear die hard L’pool fans wax lyrical about the way we play, Wenger and what an amazing manager he is, how it’s unbelieveable that he has managed to keep us in the top 4 inspite of the restrictions, how lucky we are to have a player like Ozil, what great signings we made over the summer, plus our brand new state of the art stadium then it really makes you stop and think.
We ofcourse also chatted at length about their team,(it would of been rude not to) their manager, the money they had spent over the summer, the impact of their new signings, plus their clubs inability to move into new digs. At the end of it all, I can tell you, without hesitation, that we are in a much better place then them, and I don’t just mean location. I left that bar with a real spring in my step and not just because of the 8 pints of Strongbow that had been downed. (warning, those Mickeys love their apple based beer, and like I said it would of been rude not to, but don’t let them persuade you to switch to snakebite.)
To then come home and read (the next day) all the negativity and bile really made me quiet sad. I understand that many of us (me included) had hoped for a better start to the season, or that we were clicking better on the field, but due to many factors that hasn’t quite happened yet, which is not really surprising considering all the injuries and the chopping and changing of the starting XI. But still a little context please, we just navigated a week with two away games, one in the CL and one at one of the furthest stadiums away in the PL. Yes we might not of been at our best, but we came away with victory in both. No other PL team that played in the CL during the week managed a win this weekend, surely that must warrent a bit of joy?
No, let’s discuss why we let Alex Song go to the Spammers… FFS!!
Good points H2H especially about the CL follow- up. We were away in both games which was as bad a gig as anyone except Citeh who playing in Russia and then Upton Park probably had it tougher than us.
I guess we have very high expectations and I suppose that’s inevitable because we are in the top 4 every year. That won’t happen automatically after Wenger. We might do much better but the odds are on us doing much worse. Anyway nice to see the Mickeys have their one season of glory and then implode!
@OtD,
As far as I’m aware, I don’t think that the Spanish league is a weak league! Song has improved but time will tell in the “stronger” English Premier League.
Except for odd occasions (Atletico currently, for example) only two teams have contested the La Liga title for years, Dan. Quite often there has been a huge points gap to third place. A bit more competitive now perhaps, but still lots of ‘easy’ games to be had between el classicos.
No league can compare to the Premiership for week on week pitfalls.
รskar
Well said, H2H ๐
Our performances have been frustrating but injuries have meant major changes to the line up almost every match, meaning consistency of performance has been impossible to find.
Exactly because of the signings we made in the summer, expectations were justifiably high, but the injuries and frustrating failure to strengthen adequately in key positions in the summer have left a lot of people ready to criticise.
However, as you say, no other team in CL action last week managed a win. Never mind it was “only” Sunderland, winning away anywhere after an away tie in Europe is hard.
Hull’s draw at Liverpool did put our own draw against them into some perspective – and we did only have about 65 minutes to tire them out and beat them thanks to their outrageous time wasting.
Despite my week off, I finished up doing an “emergency” treatment on a Spurs fan’s neck this evening. When I mentioned their result against Newcastle yesterday, he said he had given up on them and lost interest, and this is a long time supporter with a box, but “you lot keep going”.
Two away wins in four days has to be good, even if the performance was less than scintillating. We are fifth despite having played most of our games with half our first team missing, and still the envy of most.
Any three points is a good three points. It’s that final 30 minutes of agonising suspense I find hard. Although every game I am getting more used to it!
รskar
Nutshell Trev.
True Oskar. We are all getting better at tolerating that tension and the team is getting better at delivering the goods.
TTG @ 141: Thanks. I think you are right. Even if we replace Eduardo by Arshavin and think of the quintet of Cesc, RVP, Arshavin, Diaby and TR7 — possibly the five most technically gifted players in Arsenal from 08-12 — they too probably didn’t start 50 matches together over three years.
It is mind-boggling how much of an ‘adversary’ our injury record has been in the Emirates era. And how crucial it is that we find a way to not have the history repeat itself with the group of highly talented players we have assembled again with just one or two positions left to be filled in with true quality.
Once we inevitably fill those gaps in, and can get the injury problem sorted, I have high hopes (hopes, not expectations) for our club in this and coming seasons. Unlike many others, I don’t think Chelsea or Man City are that far ahead of us in terms of overall squad quality. Let us just do a little thought experiment and assume everyone is fit and we have a new DM with the required level of physicality and technical-tactical abilities, this is our first eleven and the bench then:
Szczesny
Debuchy – Per – Kos – Gibbs
DM-Rambo/Jack
Theo-Ozil-Sanchez
Giroud/Welbeck
Subs: Ospina, Chambers, Monreal, Arteta, Jack/Rambo, Welbeck/Giroud, Ox, TR7, Santi
With no place for Flamini,Gnabry, Bellerin, Poldi and Campbell even on the bench. I am excluding Diaby from this altogether.
It is never going to get this good, but if we can keep the injury list to say even 2-3 players (like most top clubs) even then we have a very deep squad with quality in all areas.
If Rambo/Jack and Giroud/Welbeck are either/ors, Dr F, you only have 10 players. ๐ Personally I would play Monreal for Gibbs and have both Rambo and Jack as a pair of hard-working DMs with either one capable of springing forward in attack – at least until we buy a recognised DM.
รskar
Trev and H2H know.
Great posts.
That emergency treatment you performed must have taken a lot of your time, Trev. In my experience Spurs fans have an awful lot of neck.
รskar
H2H, well said. Perspective is always a good thing. If we had played the exact same game we did v Sunderland but it had come off the back of, say, four straight wins then the general opinion would have been “solid game against a fired-up team, but we stayed patient and punished their mistakes”. I maintain that we played far better than the team is given credit for, and very few have mentioned that Arsene Wenger, who supposedly doesn’t do tactics and never adapts to the opposition, got the strategy and tactics spot on. We shored up the defence, and set up to allow Alexis the freedom to do pretty much whatever he likes. We made sure we didn’t concede stupid goals and then we knew we’d get a couple of chances at the other end. Not a vintage performance by any means but I maintain it was a very decent and solid away game.
Oskar@150: that’s because that team would be so good it’s only fair on the opposition that we play with one less to make the game slightly more even ๐
Lars @ 153, thats exactly as I saw it too.
Great comments earlier Trev and H2H.
And thanks for the morning bout of sesquipedalian loquaciousness Doctor F ๐
H2H thanks once again for putting our start to the season in some proper context, your post really made me think and then realise the ridiculousness of my complaint after the Sunderland win, and my general apathy since about match day 3.
Football is a lot like life in that respect (stay awake if you’re still reading, this isn’t going to be too deep, man). We so easily get self-absorbed and neglect to pay attention to what’s going on around us, or to just stop and acknowledge that actually we have it pretty good.
I recently had a wave of this species of self-pity about my job but when I bothered to take stock of the advantages I’m enjoying, my week-long funk evaporated under the stark light of positivity. We really are alright!
Thanks for the kind ones, fellas.
And agreed, Lars @153.
It really didn’t look nearly as bad on second viewing. Our recent history at Sunderland has been very mixed and to tough out a win with a very depleted squad is no mean feat.
And hats off to you too, Holic, for achieving the perspective so quickly that some of us took a little longer to see.
Oskar,
One of them might have a slightly sore neck this morning. ๐
Joe @155,
I note your comment addressed to Doctor ‘F’.
Strange that there is no f in sesquipedalian loquaciousness …..
Well there f in well is around here. ๐
Oskar & Lars: seriously? ๐
If you choose one from Jack and Rambo, and one from Giroud and Welbeck, you have a formation of 4-2-3-1 with the new ‘DM’ yet-to-be-named.
How is that one player short? ๐
I know octogenarian Oskar will consider Ozil’s presence as automatically one player short, but what’s your excuse Lars? ๐
Joe@155: Thanks. I wrote it before going to bed here in Boston, so the other nightly trawlers could have used it as a nightcap as well. ๐
Some serious harm is going to come to you lot for supping with this imposter, “Dr F”.
There is only one Dr F and he doesn’t dispense Cescy Tequila or whatever you lot are on ….
The and/or advocates among us will be gearing up for the choice match of the FA Cup first round draw which features the “ands” against the “ors” in a showdown that promises to be all guts and glory. I’ll be taking a punt on the sixes and sevens that Tamworth or Southport will stomp all that “and” club. Entirely too decisive for my liking.
Dagenham and Redbridge v Tamworth or Southport
Lars @ 153: Arteta in his interview after the match had talked about exactly the point you are making, giving Alexis full freedom as a no. 10 in a kind of 4-4-2 formation (though not strictly so as when we didn’t have the ball we spread at the regular 4-2-3-1). I think having two at the base of the midfield was pivotal and I hope we continue that tactics as it had given us impressive defensive stability last season and whenever we played this season.
One of the main reason Alexis was convinced to join Arsenal was that he can enjoy a freer role and express himself fully. I think he would be as happy with the key role he has been handed to and his quick adjustment to the league as we are with his phenomenal performance until now.
Doctor Faustus: I didn’t actually count, I just tagged onto what Oskar wrote ๐
Lars @ 163: ๐ I kind of thought so.
Oskar’s blind spot about Ozil is probably more literal than he gets the credit for. ๐
And I agree with you about the assessment of Sunderland game. Santi of all people is now failing to hit the target but he if had, and if Rambo didn’t lose all his bearings in a counter-attack and put through Rosicky, we would have won by something like 4-0 or even more and then the performance would have seemed much better.
We actually had won a lot of games like this last season playing exactly like that. I think one of the reasons the disjointedness is perceived so much more acutely is the gap between the solo brilliance of Alexis and the tepidity of the rest of the attackers.
H2H @ 142/Trev @ 146, great posts guys.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20141028/jack-pride-is-behind-my-return-to-form
Someone should tell Jack he is nowhere close to the kind of “form” he is capable of he should be in. He can progress so much more.
And someone also should really put the sense in him of not looking up to Lampard or Gerrard as “top midfielders in the world”.
As author of one of the gloomiest posts on here for some time( certainly from the regular posters and not the trolls) last week I found H2H’s post very meaningful and also laughed at Trev’s report from a Spuds fan. My perception is that Citeh and Chelsea( and formerly United but not now) are the only clubs who tend to write Arsenal off as potential rivals. They are both similar in that they were clubs who could only have become regular title contenders with the injection of money that their oligarch or oil- rich owners could provide. Ridiculous sums beyond the normal process of wealth generation for a club seeking to go about a normal footballing routine and growing by organic means. Frankly I think most football fans resent and despise that sort of success. Nouveau riche clubs with bags of money but very little class.
The realisation that H2H describes from Liverpool fans is the sort of recognition that Wenger gets in most places. Liverpool are finding it almost impossible to match last year’s feats let alone do it season after season and they like Tottenham ( and several others but not West Ham who have been given a quite unfair subsidised deal to occupy the Olympic Stadium at a peppercorn rent) have yet to take the pain of trying to grow whilst funding and building a new stadium. That will really test the mettle of those clubs. Only FFP can curtail the oil- rich clubs success , if it bites. United have loads of money but a dangerously high debt mountain and a brand that will tarnish rapidly unless they can achieve regular Champions League football. So our success is not to be scoffed at. Last week’s frustration was about a team failing to really push on , management with the handbrake on and a repetition of past frustrations over injuries. None of those issues have or will go away but they do need to be seen against a background where only three teams in the league are probably satisfied with their lot- Chavski, Southampton and West Ham. Certainly Southampton is a great example of a team that built on a sound youth system and with a tactically astute manager who has spent very wisely, are the real success story of this season.
Koeman has impressed me and is a very credible candidate at this stage to succeed Wenger when he does eventually call it a day. Providing of course Koeman is under 70 at the time!
Good points from H2H, TTG etc re: the overreaction to the performance against Sunderland on Saturday. I was taken aback by the sheer negativity and disdain from one or two posters. Sometimes I feel like certain supporters won’t be gratified unless we’re playing magic football and playing teams off the park every game. As I said a day or two ago, while I accept constructive criticism, I often think a fan’s given response often owes as much to their overall ‘disposition’ as to pure objectivity. I’m certainly on the realistic end of the spectrum – professional football consists of two well-prepared teams purposely set out to counteract the other. Especially in the Premier League this year with the plethora of decent sides, there will be very few walkovers or thrashings (Burnley at home hopefully excepted), so we’re going to have to work hard for our points.
Also TTG – I take your point about Koeman, but I’m always loathe to get too excited about the latest managerial ‘flavour of the month’. I seem to recall Laudrup, Moyes and Coyle have fallen in this category before, and where are they now? I still think Guardiola taking over in 2017 seems a really good option and timescale to me. It gives both Wenger enough time to try and win one of the biggies with this last group of players he’s assembling over the next 2.5 years, while Guardiola may need that long to secure Munich a Champions Lge, as it’s a competitive scenario at the moment with Barca, the Madrid teams, Chelsea et al. I think Guardiola would fancy a crack in the Premier Lge, preferably not at the nouveau riche clubs but with a classy one like ours, and hopefully by then we’re more of a fixture in the title hunt…Just my pennies’ worth, but Guardiola is the glaring option that won’t go away.
Also, OTD 150 – re: your ideal Arsenal XI. You wouldn’t play a DM and just have Wilshere and Ramsey ‘pivot’ in the role?! Oh dear – and you’ve been one of the most vocal critics of Arsenal performances (inc. Sunderland) in recent weeks….I accept we should be looking to upgrade on Arteta and Flamini especially in the next 6-12 months, but have you not learned anything from watching Arsenal in recent months/seasons. It would be like the last 20 minutes of Anderlecht all the time! You don’t pick your best individual players, but the best team to fit a formation. I’d argue if the ‘front 4’ if you like of Ozil, Walcott, Sanchez and Giroud/Welbeck is so good, you could just plonk Flameta behind them as insurance (a la Sunderland) and let that 4 go on and win games. And failing that, there’ll be a bench of Wilshere, Ox, Ramsey, Cazorla to help out….
This article makes interesting reading.
It appears on Untold Arsenal so something useful has been posted on there at last. It shows points gained per million pounds spent. It might also show why the Board love Wenger so much
http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/38687?
On the latest Arsecast, James of Gunnerblog on Alexis Sanchez:
“I don’t think we’ve seen anyone with such insatiable hunger since …
Andre Santos, I guess.”
๐
Evening all. Second night of geek stuff behind the scenes. Definitely posting tomorrow night, if I haven’t broken everything, of course.
My sliver of a chance of making Burnley on Saturday finally killed off tonight.
Roxette owes me. ๐
Time I was sent back to London on business on a Friday……
Sorry to hear about your playlist, H.
Unlucky Doctor Z.
Great post from H2H earlier.
However hard done by I feel from time to time, and I have voiced it recently like Trev and other admirable stalwarts; I am firmly with the spirit of Stuart Barnes (top egg chaser and top pundit), ‘I did not have a choice, but I am so glad I was born an Arsenal supporter’.
I did have a choice, until me Mum intervened (God bless her soul). Which makes it all the better
Liverpool through in the COCup after a massive cockup by the Swansea keeper.
Gregoire … what I said was I would like to see Rambo and Jack sharing the DM position “until we buy a recognised DM”. That is, in preference to playing either Flam or Mikel I would have two more mobile MFs capable of getting back or getting forward with the flow of the game.
In fact I don’t see DM as an entirely legitimate position, not with mobile CDs anyway. With a fully functioning midfield, which theoretically, we have in the squad, it could as easily fall to any or all of them to keep an eye on defence and be ready to cover, Total Football style. Years ago teams had only one CD, two backs and two halves. Inserting another CD and moving the halves around was a sensible development. But adding a third CD in effect? Looks like overkill to me and definitely at the expense of attack. My plan would recognise the current two CDs standard while recreating the halves. If you insist on three CDs then it makes more sense to make one of them a sweeper BEHIND the present two rather than in front of them, a role the Germans usually have their keepers performing. But not one I’d trust Sir Ches with!
Hey, Dr F! What sort of doctor could mistake me for an octogenarian? A way to go yet, thank you. ๐
รskar
and Gregoire … Arsenal’s recent performances have nothing to do with picking an ideal XI. With everyone fit the situation would be entirely different. You’re welcome to disagree about two quick MFs covering the space in front of the CDs as adequately as one DM, but it’s only opinion. So no need to ‘Oh dear’ in quite so patronising a way.
รskar
Arsenal get a break finally on the injury front.
*Knocks on wood.*
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11191638/Arsenal-hope-to-avoid-another-defensive-headache-with-Kieran-Gibbs-expected-to-be-fit-for-Burnley-clash.html
Have to disagree with you on that 8ball. Our only left back injured up to 8 weeks.
http://arsenalyouth.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/ormonde-ottewill-ruled-out-for-six-to-eight-weeks/
Our two first choice CB’s Hayden and Plequezueo are also long term absentees.
It is symptomatic that u-21 players are falling like flies just like their older colleagues. What they have in common? Training pitch? Training methods and facilities? Same diet? Same medics?!
I really don’t know, but maybe the answer to that could help us solving our injury problems.
For almost any Swede aged about 30 or more, the summer of 1994 will forever be remembered for the magical few weeks during the World Cup when the whole nation was united behind the national team which went on to win the bronze medals. Hundreds of thousands of people lined the road from the airport into Stockholm when they came back after the tournament, and to this day, now more than 20 years on, people still haven’t stopped talking about it. Personally, I have tons of happy memories of a month of parties, late nights and generally happy times.
One of the heroes of that team was Klas Ingesson. He had a relatively successful career in primarily Italy but also had a spell at Sheffield Wednesday. He wasn’t a particularly technically gifted player, but he had a heart the size of a mountain and never ever ever gave up. That 1994 team had Tomas Brolin who you may remember as a joke at Palace and Leeds but who at his peak truly was one of the best players in the world, and on the national team Ingesson, along with Stefan Schwarz who of course had a spell at the Arsenal, was the hard worker that gave Brolin the freedom to go forwards and attack. Ingesson played wherever the manager told him to and just got on with it, and all those who met him spoke of a truly kind and gentle man.
Five years ago, aged only 40, he was diagnosed with a very severe form of cancer. He fought it determinedly ever since, and up until just a few weeks ago he managed a team in the Swedish top division. He was in a wheelchair and on heavy pain killers but never once complained. On the contrary, he got pissed off if anyone even so much as suggested that his illness exempted him from criticism. “My brain is still working, I shall be judged just like any other manager”, he said.
Last night, the cancer finally took him. A footballing hero and general role model has passed away. I never met him, but he was in many ways an inspiration for me and will continue to be so even though he is no longer with us.
Rest in peace, Klas.
Nice piece, Lars. I remember that excellent team well, Brolin in particular.
Thanks for that Lars. Always thought Schwartz a class act. Klas Ingesson sounds like quite a man.
Nice one brother Lars.
If only some of the current prima donnas in the dugout were as grounded as you suggest Ingesson was.
RIP.
Lars @ 179: Wonderfully written. Thoughts are with the friends and family of your inspirational countryman Klas.
I definitely remember Thomas Brolin from that Sweden team, but also from Serie A where I think he had a good run with Parma (or was it Genoa?) in the early nineties when Serie A was still a great league.
I am not one to report transfer speculations, but thought the ‘rumor’ of us planning to sign Sevilla’s Polish defender in January should be shared if only for his delightfully spelled name Grzegorz Krychowiak .
Many years back in Paris I had a Polish friend who spent an entire month trying to correct my pronunciation of “Gombrowicz”. I wonder what our Polish fan base will feel like listening to the English commentary if this lad wants to be known by his first name. ๐
Is “Gregory” close enough? Lurky? ATG?
Oh Tomas Brolin, i do remember and what a sad loss. I mean they were one of the teams of that dreary world cup. RIP to him.
I read an article today on dailymail, yes i know daily mail but then they make an interesting comment. Martin Samuel writes that Arsenal can make the move for Klopp by having Wenger moving up stairs to say a director role or any role which will make him an integral part of the Club but not of the day to day team maintenance. He also writes that Klopp would suit us perfectly and at the moments is at the crossroads at dortmund. I truly agree to the point not because i want Wenger replaced immediately but then we may lose out on Klopp waiting too long. So ideally next summer should be when we put this plan into action and we ease Klopp to the role and have Wenger watching over till he is settled. Then on it is Klopp’s team and Wenger overlooks the club running and not the team. This is said with absolute reverence to Wenger and nothing against him. We need to take the giant step and we need to plan for it now.
I am not saying Klopp is the only choice but i see him as an in ideal one to replace the great man.
Vinay @ 185: Thomas Brolin the man seems to be fine. Lars reminisced about one of Brolin’s mates form the Sweden team, Klas Ingesson.
Those of you haven’t yet read this give it a try
http://news.arseblog.com/2014/10/report-arsenal-ninth-in-homegrown-talent-table/ .
We have significant scopes for improvement in getting more first team players through the academy and youth set-up. This was something that Jonker had alluded to in his first interview with the Arsenal magazine.
Doc Faust
– they will butcher his name to the no end since his first name is pronounced by the letter only two slavic languages use as far as I know and that is “ล” used in Polish and Czech..in Czech the transcription would be Gลegoล and I dont even know how to phonetically describe the sound of it.
It is pretty much the hardest part to master for any foreigner trying to speak czech (even my slovakian gf struggles with it and language wise, we are as close as it gets). Aaaanyway *language window slams shut*
Opps i am so sorry because i remember Brolin very well, may he have a great life ahead and RIP for the one who passed away.
Continuing on the new manager thing, Paul Clement at Madrid seems to be the latest name linked to replace Wenger, havent heard much about him, so this seems news to me even though Metro reports Wenger apparently believes he is the right man. Well the boss on record has also glowed about Stojkovic.
รandy @ 187: ๐ Up until my mid-twenties I had the hubris of thinking that eventually I will get the pronunciation of names and places from all cultures and languages just right, I had given up on that long time back.
Among people I know, the Czech I had found one of the most forgiving about poor pronunciation of their names… ๐
Getting the accent right is probably hardest part of any language. India has around 20+ officially recognized languages, often aligned with the state boundaries, and despite having familial connections between say all North Indian languages my name is traditionally mispronounced by others from the different parts of the country. ๐
*follows รandy’s example and closes language discussion”
Update on the “ors” fixture of FA Cup qualifying held yesterday. Southport defeated Tamworth on penalties after the game finished in a completely indecisive 1-1 draw. Fittingly indecisive for an “ors” fixture in every way. ๐
Vinay 185. Article in the Daily Fail…no need to go any further as to its veracity. Purely idle speculation to fill a page and get “hits”.
In the real world, Arsene is here for the 3 yr contract he has signed. The board’s comments at the recent AGM re-affirm that none of the directors have the slightest inclination to make any change to current status quo – they worship the ground he walks on, and from their perspective that’s understandable, as he had met / surpassed all the
targets they could hope for ( financial of course).
However, should the expected gelling of the team, form & results fail to materialise, there will eventually be loud cries from certain sections of the “support” for him to go, gloatingly fuelled by the negative press and tv here in UK. He may then finally decide fuck it, I’ve had enough and walk….albeit unlikely occurrence in my book.
Lars…a wonderful tribute from you for the passing of Klas Ingesson. The way you describe his personality makes him a role model to be proud of.
RIP.
Thanks for all the kind words above. For the record I wasn’t trying to single anyone out, plus I understand the frustration that many feel, but after two wins in a few days a little bit of happiness………
Good stuff Lars.
Tomas Brolin did indeed play in Italy, as a matter of fact he was a member of the Parma XI that Arsenal beat in the ’94 CWC final, which at the time was considered quite a shock.
Lars@179: Touching tribute to someone who sounded to be a fine footballer and a finer man.
H2H@142: Well said. Always good to be reminded that the grass isn’t necessarily greener elsewhere.
Lurky@178: Real issue is whether they can find a shirt large enough to stitch Chatzitheodoridis across the back if he has to step up to the U21s.
Didn’t know much of either man Lars, but after reading what you said I wish I had. Stirring.
Cheers.
H2H……beating Parma in the Cup Winners Cup final was the most famous of One Nil to the Arsenal results. Smudger Smith scored the goal I think. Thomas Brolin was in his prime then and keeping him quiet was the order of the day.
Ned, no doubt the size of shirt Brolin was wearing in his latter days playing in England, there would be plenty of room to stitch Chatzitheodoidis across the back ๐
Lurky / NBN.
The Chatzitheodoris issue is a red herring. The true issue at hand is whether his rival will have M’Bola stitched onto the back of his shirt.
Vinay, Uply: I cannot imagine that AW will do anything but fulfill his current three-year contract. It is not of his nature to do otherwise. I would also imagine that there is a succession plan in place, at least in outline, in the event that he decides then to call it quits. If he does (and I am far from 100% sure he will if he has another golden team assembled by then), then I would also bet that his retirement is not announced until his replacement has been secured.
It will be very difficult to have a left back who has to be repeatedly left out for 21 days at a time, bt8b. There is just no escape from the out-for-three-weeks curse.
Talk about clear favourites : http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20141029/alexis-is-vitality-player-of-the-month
Spot on : http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20141029/arteta-alexis-has-knife-in-his-teeth-
Mikel Arteta says Alexis Sanchez’s eagerness to put defenders under pressure is the blueprint for how Arsenal should play.
๐
GEt in
Well in H2H, seems like every one else already left for the dressing room ๐
Fine tribute Lars. I feel your pain.
I remember that Sweden team and saw Schwarz play for us a few times. Silky left sided midfielder with a good shot. Kicked up and wanted to leave when offered a contract extension “because he wanted more sunshine’. So he signed for some also ran in Spain and a year late turned up at Sunderland. I knew there was a ‘rust belt’ but didn’t know there was a sunbelt on the Wear.
Well in H2H.
Just like old times. ๐
Honourable tabs position for Uply. ๐
How are you at table dancing?
NBN. It is the governors of New York and New Jersey who have decreed that their minions will be out for 21 days at a time, which certainly distinguishes them from Arsene Wenger who defines it as 3 weeks. ๐
Not to make light of a very situation but I couldn’t resist.
Very serious Ebola situation I mean.
A very beautiful elogy for the Emirates in 3D from an Arsenal fan in Turkey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sAg77zuN3A
Cheers gents.
For those not familiar with the ’94 final, take a look at the wiki page;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_European_Cup_Winners'_Cup_Final
As mentioned above, this was pretty much the glory days of the Serie A. Look at the Parma team, I’m sure there will be names even the younger of football fans will recognise.
Cheers Bath…I’m more normally found under the table. Falling foul of Lynn at the Tollie I’ll leave to the expert ๐
Co-incidentally I’m making one of my nowadays rare pilgrimages to the HOF this Saturday and hope some of the regulars will be at the Tollie to share a beer / dram or 2. On my previous visit, I was trapped in the company of Zico & H2H and was informed, and naively believed, that drinking copious amounts of beer was mandatory ๐
Hopefully I will manage to recognise some of you but that’s not a strong point of mine even when sober. Will look forward to the football and all that goes with it.
Nice post, Lars.
Uply,
See you under the usual Tollie Brollie.
You’ll recognise me I reckon. I’ll be limping ridiculously after today which I have spent queueing in the rain for an inordinate amount of time, to pY a daft amount of money to gain entry to the Tower of London.
Whoever coined the Bloody Tower knew what they were doing alright.
The whole bloody Tower was heaving with soaking wet people struggling past each other through tiny doorways to climb and dismount more stone staircases than you could ever wish to see.
Technology has left the whole place virtually – no pun intended – untouched. Small, dingy rooms with the odd paragraph screwed to stone walls, to explain why some poor unfortunate had scratched his name on the wall before having his limbs stretched and bones crushed in the torture room.
Mind you, that might have been a preferable option to queueing round the place for nearly four hours with roughly one billion members of the earth’s population.
It’s off topic, but there’s nothing else happening – and it’s NOT a new injury scare. ๐
Why did you do it ? – I don’t hear you asking.
To see the poppy display and semi-educational visit for the girls.
Just don’t !!
Uply, do come and say hello on Saturday ๐
Just like a new signing. Wellington Silva — remember him? — has apparently been granted Spanish citizenship, so will be available to play for the club next year as he now longer needs the work permit he could never get.
Having started the topic I should say that the poppy display is touching and makes a real impression. No disrespect intended to that part of it.
Just the Tower is awful.
Nice one Uply.
But if you remembered the H2H/zico legislation then you obviously didn’t drink enough. ๐
Enjoy Saturday sir.
Cheers all.
Hey Ups,
Pity I will miss you on Saturday.
Anything less than a gallon is a recession. ๐
Lars,
You’re not supposed to enjoy a eulogy but yours of Ingesson was a great tribute. Thankyou
Re the Clement rumour this is ridiculous. Wenger’s shoes will be hard enough to fill without picking someone without a shred of managerial experience. And the lesson from Old Toilet last year was that you can’t let even a legend pick his successor. Wenger will be here for three years at least health permitting.
Well said TTG, as for Klopp…..
Do the people who keep throwing his hat into the ring actually follow the Bundesliga? His team have hardly one a game outside of the CL this season.
Uply, look forward to seeing you again at the Tollie on Saturday. You have been schooled by true masters.
And well done Geordie boys.
Arsene Wenger has always said that he honours his contract(s).
Arsene Wenger has indeed always honoured his contracts.
Even if he had a successor in mind, and even if he had been told it would be left to him to choose and name his successor, hands up all those who think he would do it with two and a half years of a three year contract to go ……………
Noone ? Good. Move on. ๐
Nutshell Trev.
I suspect even the Holic pound would not be risked on long odds favourites in the next two and a half years.
Gentleman….look forward to seeing you all again on Saturday. Disappointing that Zico and H2H will not be there but it’s an ill wind etc* – the money I will save will now pay for a luxury holiday ๐
*thats the saying not the good friend of this bar.
Trev..both the Tower of London and the poppy field of remembrance are combined a wonderful experience. The huge popularity means large numbers of people going through the doors along with an entrance fee that could be called exorbitant – now where else does that comes to mind. The income through that place alone should pay for the Royal family ๐
I’ve seen the Poppies. Very moving. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>