Ref Ref Ref, A Guest Post From Noosa Gooner
Nov 14th, 2014 by 'holic
I imagine most who visit here or read my rants on Twitter will know I have a pretty low opinion of the current crop of Premier League referees and assistants. To be fair they do come under the microscope far more than ever before so I have some sympathy for all but the most obviously incompetent. I am indebted to our very own Noosa Gooner for reminding us there is more than one side to the story, and shares with us some of the things he learned with a whistle at the ready. Thanks Noosa.
Holics – everybody thinks they can ref – right?
I was in New Zealand when I stopped playing football at the age of 35 – it was just taking longer and longer to get over the weekly knocks and bruises. However I was still pretty fit, I could still run around ok and was keen to stay involved in the game for a while longer.
I was reminded of an appearance before the disciplinary committee where I had commented upon the general ineptitude of referees. Their response was to suggest that I become a referee when I finished playing and to see if I could do better. So I did.
Work commitments stopped me from refereeing at a national level, although I became qualified to do so, but I enjoyed refereeing, mostly at a regional level for about 8 years before a job transfer meant I had to give it away. I learnt things that I never knew, despite having played the game since I was a kid. I don’t claim to be an expert but thought I could share some observations of the most popular topics from the dark side for your interest.
I was taught that the role of a referee is “to enforce the laws of the game”. I learnt that refereeing is all about correct decision making and good man management, underpinned by a decent level of fitness. Without all three things, you’ll never be a good referee.
Consequently, you must obviously have a thorough knowledge and understanding of the laws of the game. Indeed, you are tested on your knowledge in written, verbal and practical assessments as you work your way up the refereeing ladder and beyond. I was often amazed at how little many players (including myself), coaches and, to be fair, some referees actually knew about the laws – everything from acceptable pitch dimensions to the interpretation of violent conduct. Sometimes you just don’t know what you don’t know.
If the referee is there to enforce the laws, it is the players’ responsibility to stay within those laws. Contrary to what some TV commentators would have you believe, it is not the referee’s job to “make allowances” for poor conditions or heated atmospheres and let poor challenges go unpunished because of that. It is the players who must make those “allowances” and the referee, as always, simply enforces the laws. If a referee tries to alter his decision making because of conditions, then consistency of decision-making goes out the window which is when a ref often loses control and gets (rightly) slated for that.
Similarly, it is not the referee’s job to “try and keep 22 players on the pitch”. We were never coached to think like that. If a player commits a cautionable or dismissible offence then he should be dealt with accordingly, irrespective of playing conditions or the nature of the match. If not, this type of leniency is quickly seen by the players as a sign of weakness which is then played upon and leads to even more refereeing inconsistency. Unfortunately we see this week in and week out.
In a similar vein, how often do we see a player plead that “it’s my first foul” when about to be cautioned – as if everybody is allowed a free whack at somebody before the laws apply to them? Where did this idea come from? I am amazed that some referees seem to let players get away with not just this but also multiple infringements before sanction. Just how do they interpret “persistent misconduct”?
Oscar at the Chelsea game this season springs to mind. And all the usual suspects. Lucas at Liverpool. Henry at Wolves. Fernhandino at City. And so on. Again, it just seems like weak refereeing to me.
Dissent – Someone (politely) questioning a decision is ok but allowing players to swear at you, confront or surround you, chase you, walk away from you when administering a caution shows that your man management skills have failed and that you have lost the respect that players must afford you. Once that happens, you’ve effectively lost control of the game.
Playing advantage – simply having possession of the ball after an infringement does not automatically represent an advantage, particularly if an attacking player has been taken out of the game and the attack. Too many referees seem not to apply this very well.
In the English Premier League today, I reckon that about half of all throw-ins are illegal – from stealing way too many yards through to incorrect release of the ball. Read the law. I suspect that referees are told to let all but the most blatant go for the sake of continuity but the downside is that if one law (albeit minor) is allowed to be so blatantly ignored then is it really any wonder that so many other laws and decisions are then challenged or misunderstood by players and managers?
Hands on / hands off. It seems to be generally accepted that players should never lay hands on a referee, whatever the circumstances. The reasons are obvious. I am still surprised when I see referees laying hands on players whether moving back a defensive wall or stepping in between players who were squaring up to each other or, as I saw recently, actually pushing a player backwards to avoid a fight with another player. I was coached that respect is a two way street and never to touch a player. If there’s a confrontation or other incendiary incident then watch what happens and then take appropriate action – don’t get involved in that action itself.
That same requirement of respect demands that, during a game, players are not your friends. I am shocked to see so many referees using first name terms and trying to be “matey” with players during matches. There were occasions when I refereed games including my old club and guys I had played with but first names and familiarity quite obviously had to be off limits until after the game. Why do some referees now feel the need to be such an integral part of the show? Funnily enough, this seems to be an English thing – continental refs are much more detached and are usually better for it.
I wish that referees were allowed to explain, post-match, why certain decisions were given. They may not always be right and we may not always agree but I think it would benefit the game and our understanding of the role of the referee.
There are many other things about refs that drive us crazy but ask yourself – how well do you know the laws. Some might say that you need to be crazy to be a referee. The thing is, there wouldn’t be a game without them. Maybe you could be one?
125 Responses to “Ref Ref Ref, A Guest Post From Noosa Gooner”
Oh I say. Drinks are on me…
Good blog, Noosa.
better read it now in case there’s a test later.
Heh 🙂
Evening Cynic. Hope all is well mate.
Enjoyed that Noosa.
And paragraphs, what joy. 😉
Noosa Gooner, good to see the view from the ‘dark’ side.
I’ll come back later to add a few points that are different in England, not in the Laws, but in the way we are ‘advised’ to apply them. However, son has football training this evening so will be later on.
Just a couple of things that are learnt when becoming a ‘B**&^%$£ In The Black, One – No Surprises, if everyone is expecting a decision, then don’t disappoint them (unless of course you are absolutely 100% certain!) Two – You can only ref what is put in front of you i.e. if the players want to play football then great, however if they want to kick lumps out of each other then its going to be a different game!
Anyway I’ll post some more later, football calls
Noosa. Thanks for a great perspective on refereeing and our reactions to it. Whether good or bad, referees are an incredibly important part of the game and I would like to get your view on two things.
1) The pros and cons of replay technology to get close decisions right.
2) Premier League referees ignoring holding in the box especially on free kicks, and whether more penalties should be awarded to prevent it.
Look forward to it ref 🙂
Evening Dr Z 😉
Great post Noosa
And Krychowiak scores second for Poland 😉
Not all is well, ‘holic, thanks for asking but at my age I’ll settle for 10% dandy.
Drop me a line if you want to mate. goonerholic(at)virginmedia(dot)com these days.
Noosa, great post- very informative and a good reminder that there’s always two sides to the coin. Refs are probably scrutinised more closely than ever before and in fairness to a lot of them it is a hard job (Phil Dowd on the other hand is still a c*@t :-))
Only experienced this once, when I reffed a game in Greece between my students (teenage Italians) vs another group (French teenagers). It was midsummer, and the mercury was up around 35 C. One incident I remember was when a player shoulder-barged the kid in possession, knocking him clean off the ball. His response to the award of a free kick was “Zat’s football!” with an incredulous facial expression. Pretty sure I called it right but the whole experience was far from easy.
(A bit of context: this match happened just days after Italy won the world cup and Zidane delivered his famous headbutt. The Italian kids won their match too, which must have been rather ‘Gaul’-ing for the French off the back of that cup final loss (that one’s for you Trev :-))
Looks like Gibbs is going to be playing twice now for England as Baines has gone home injured…
Also, while the Premier League’s Argentine contingent (including a certain Mr Di Maria who we come up against a week tomorrow) are in the middle of 2 friendlies conveniently scheduled in England, our own South American maestro Alexis has had to shuttle off back to the other end of the planet for 2 friendlies for Chile as they prepare for next year’s Copa America. And Mourinho’s nagging at Spain has worked beautifully as Cesc and Costa have got their feet up in London all fortnight while Spain play their 2 fixtures without them.
Sorry for indulging in a bit of self-pity, but I pray all our players come back in one piece….
PS – On the subject of referees. Perhaps my perennial annoyance is with refs who you sense are looking to give things b/c they’re subconsciously intimidated by 50,000 home fans bellowing at every decision, or if they feel they know they’ve made a contentious decision (a la Oliver during Stoke v Swansea) and are unwittingly but instinctively looking to even it up….I know the ‘referees union’ response – akin to some of Noosa’s rhetoric – would be that refs always play the game they see and not the occasion, but there must be a visceral reaction to a foul in the box occurring to the sensation of near silence, versus the same incident playing to the screams of tens of thousands of baying fans (and probably certain aggressive players and managers). I’m not saying all referees are susceptible to this ‘phenomenon’, but a lot of them are. It also doesn’t help that a lot of the referees come across as fundamentally unintelligent human-beings (Mark Halsey, Andy D’Urso and Phil Dowd to name but a few!)
I don’t care what Dysiun says in the previous round, Trev, your personal habits have no place in this blog! 😉
Öskar
Interesting perspective, Noosa, and a welcome one. I find it sad how some refs want to be everyone’s mate on the field, and agree with Gregoire about refs who feel obliged to even things up after making a tough decision, regardless how correct the original decision might have been.
It’s like the bluddy school system introduced in NZ in recent years which would rather see every child pass every exam than recognise some kids are inherently brighter than others. The idiots have to be encouraged to believe they are just as smart as the bright ones, and end up unemployed because they refuse to do menial jobs appropriate to their capabilities. Those jobs end up with Pacific Islanders only too ready to take any job after failing to make The All Blacks.
Öskar
Top work, Noosa.
Really enjoyable post Noosa, capped off a 6 hour backdrink quite nicely on the way home.
Thanks Noosa. A very interesting piece of background. I look forward to your observations on bt8b’s questions @5.
Interesting read, Noosa. Good to get an inside perspective. It isn’t an easy job, and your central point about consistency in applying the laws is particularly well taken.
Just about every game I think I spot an illegal throw-in, but they never seem to get called.
Gregoire: I remember reading an academic paper somewhere that concluded that referees do show a slight but statistically significant bias in favour of home sides.
Cheers, Noosa,
not easy putting these things together is it.
Also look forward to your answers to bt8’s questions, and whether you have any insight, in this country, as to what input the linesmen are supposed to have in decision making. In particular, fouls that half the crowd can see which occur on the blind side of the referee, assimilation that the linesman should be able to see when the ref is unsighted, etc.
In a European context, any idea what the hell the fifth and sixth officials are supposed to contribute ?
Oskar @12,
That was supposed to be a play on Dyson Shake’n’Vac (the sweeper) but I think it might have required too much of a stretch ? 🙁
Ned, to Gregoire,
“a bias in favour of home sides”
Not at The Emirates they don’t !
I was about to say Trev! The law of the ‘home’ referee doesn’t apply to us. We had to wait till November for our first pen of the season (Arteta’s v Anderlecht). Hopefully fate is saving one or two back for Man Utd next weekend!
Incidentally, I see Alexis is keeping up old habits down in Chile!
lmao, Trev. I couldn’t figure Dysiun, but assumed it was a local reference. Szczaykenwak, on the other hand, very clearly (to me anyway) said ‘says I can whack’ … Dysiun, whoever that might be, giving you permission.
Not as quick as I once was, sadly. 🙁
Öskar
Thanks.
bt8@5 – I think that replay technology to aid decision making is fine as long as it doesn’t unnecessarily slow the game down too much and is limited to matters of fact. For instance, the Hawkeye system now for if the ball has crossed the goal line seems to be working well.
The flip side is when a replay itself is not that easy to adjudicate. In Australia now in rugby league matches, it seems that a majority of “tries” are now referred upstairs for the video ref. We are then usually subjected to endless replays from every different angle which often makes no change to the original ruling. This has slowed the game down so much that everyone is now pretty pissed off with it and many want to go back to the referee simply making a decision and sticking with it.
Personally, I don’t want to see the game slowed down to that extent.
As regards the more recent phenomenon of grappling in the box, I think it is a really bad look for the game and would support a crackdown where penalties were awarded. It wouldn’t take that many before players became more wary of doing it. I don’t know why more isn’t done in England – perhaps Gooner Ref can help?
Noosa.
Thanks for your responses and I actually agree with your every word on both the replays and the grappling in the box. It sounds like Australian rugby league has just about the same amount of replays as the NFL in American football and the game has been slowed down and made more boring in both cases.
Noosa, I see Trev has more interesting questions for you @18 and I’ll be interested to see your answers to those too.
Gregoire @ 11
I’ve never played or reffed in front of 50,000 screaming fans but I would imagine that professional referees have become as accustomed to it as have the players.
Whether that makes them better or fairer referees or not is obviously open to debate and I agree that some do seem to favour home teams.
As for the levels of intelligence, my experience is that the refereeing fraternity is as broad a cross-section of society as any other community, including the internet. Some are obviously smarter than others.
Cheers.
The problem with that, Noosa (#23), is that unless you deny replays to spectators everyone can see when an error has been made and rightly get miffed if it goes against them. That can be most annoying in a game like football where a single goal, given or not given, will often decide the result.
In League I agree it sometimes takes longer than necessary to decide whether it’s a try or not, but I don’t mind the breaks too much since they give a very fast game a bit of recovery time so it can continue to be a fast game when recommenced. Otherwise it could end up like Rugby where all that seems to happen is the endless setting and resetting of scrums before the ref finally allows play to continue, only for the first player with his hands on the ball to promptly kick it out of play again. That, or the game devolves into pushing and shoving and rolling around on the ground in rucks and mauls where the ball and its progress, or lack of it, is skilfully concealed from view … until it suddenly emerges and gets kicked out of play.
Cricket is the game I believe has been most spoilt by technology. Years ago I remember watching practically every ball of a test match confident in my belief that the umpires got their decisions right most of the time in matches played on a pretty level playing field. Then along came slo-mos and close-ups and multiple repeats where we learned that, in fact, umpires probably got it wrong as often as they got it right, thus reducing a five-day game to something resembling a lottery. Now I barely ever watch cricket at all. Most recently I’ve taken to recording cricket and watching it back at 30x speed, stopping only for the fall of wickets. It’s a surprisingly fun game at that speed, trust me.
Öskar
Trev @ 18
When I was refereeing the role of linesman had yet to be upgraded to the “assistant referee” euphemism. When giving instructions before a game, I usually limited their input to ball out of play, offsides and letting me know if they had been personally abused.
Now they’re obviously more involved in decision making. Again, perhaps Gooner Ref can help.
I do recall one occasion where a linesman tried to “help” me out in a fairly tense top of the table clash. At 0-0, late in the game, I awarded the away team a late penalty (sorry Gregoire).
There were the usual howls of protest which I waved away and then the home captain advised me that a linesman had his flag raised. With the crowd (such as it was) getting restless, I approached the linesman, ushered away a horde of players and asked him why he had his flag raised. He told me that he just wanted to let me know that he agreed with my decision. OK – thanks for that!
As regards the 5/6 officials, you’re guess is as good as mine. I seem to recall their introduction was more about governing body politics than practical assistance and I don’t ever recall seeing an outline of what their responsibilities or authorities are. Anybody else know?
Cheers.
Oskar,
I understand that supporters will be pissed off when a decision against them is subsequently shown to be incorrect. I know that I am.
But, I don’t believe that you can keep stopping and starting a game to check every decision so how do you decide which ones to check?
Is it like NFL or cricket where a certain number of appeals are allowed by each team – how many of those should we stand in a game before it drives us crazy? And how would the decisions be communicated to the crowd?
And what should be open to appeal? Is it only for specific instances like when a penalty is awarded? Or how about when a penalty has NOT been awarded? And who then decides on a replay what the correct decision should be? Another referee?
In rugby league, many try referrals are about whether or not the ball crossed the line and/or touched down correctly- what should be simple matters of fact. Why then are so many video referee decisions debated and criticised? Because they are often still eventually matters of opinion – not fact. That is why they introduced the “Benefit of the Doubt” decision or the referees call.
Ball crossed the line or not using technology = fact. Probably.
Foul inside or outside the box using technology = fact. Hopefully.
Penalty should / should not be awarded using replay technology = opinion, regardless of whose, the match or video referee.
As we all know, opinions are like ….. so whose do we then choose?
Be careful what you wish for.
Cheers.
I wasn’t advocating stopping a football game to verify every decision, Noosa, I was supporting the single instance of goal line technology to decide if a ball actually crossed the line. Likewise only tries in League need be looked at. Cricket is so damn slow anyway it hardly matters what they do.
My point was that when spectators can see an obvious mistake has been made they’re not going to just say c’est la vie, they’re going to complain, LOUDLY. So perhaps we should do away with slo-mo cameras and instant replays either on TV or at the ground and just have good old moaning after the game which no-one can win because there’s no evidence.
But of course that’s not going to happen. I just think we were better off when it did.
Öskar
Even if they put De Gea into the team against us this is bound to play with his mind.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30064535
Next year this fella should be looking for a hefty pay rise. 🙂
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30054140
Morning all, wife working, kids still asleep, time to tap the keyboard.
As I promised yesterday I’ll try and put an English perspective on Noosa’s excellent post.
As was said, the two things that will determine how far you progress as a referee are correct decision making and man management. Which is the most important? Well, the players and crowd may ‘help and advise’ you about decisions but if you can’t communicate with a group of 22 individuals on the pitch and the 10 or so in the technical areas then you will see it all disintegrate in front of you. This is one of the reasons why most of the ref’s on the Premier and Football League are generally ‘mature’ in age as as in the real world, life experience tends to come with age.
Anyway, back to the English outlook
Dissent – The trick is to decide what is frustration and what is abuse and then clamp down on the latter. It tends to look worse on TV as a close-up of a player mouthing something doesn’t show how close he is to the ref (or Assistant Ref (A/R)) and you’d be amazed how little you actually hear when you’re running around a pitch. I once asked my wife why she didn’t bring the kids to watch any of my games, she replied that the one time she did, she couldn’t believe the huge amount of abuse that was coming from the crowd, I was stunned because I’d heard about 3 comments during the 90 minutes as I was focused on what was happening on the pitch and had shut off the rest.
Advantage – ‘possession is not advantage’ is the mantra here as well. However you are coached that there are 3 areas where you rarely allow an advantage, around the edge of the penalty area and also in front of the Technical Areas as these are likely flashpoints. Also depends on the teams and how they play as a team with that attacked at speed will probably want the advantage played more than a team who build slowly. A great example of this was in the game against Swansea when The Ox was fouled on the halfway line and almost brought down, advantage played and we scored (and the Swansea player was cautioned afterwards)
Throw-ins – Stealing yards has to be balanced against getting the ball back into play, who hasn’t groaned at a ref who is always whistling to get players in exactly the right position, however there are very few where the ball isn’t released correctly, it’s usually when a player changes their mind as they’re about to take the throw.
Hands On/Hands Off – We are all advised not to touch players and you will very rarely see a ref physically move players with their hands at a free kick, the spray has been a great help to this and is being brought in to the Football League (in January I believe). As regards confrontations, as Noosa states, always watch what happens and then take action as you don’t want to get hit or pushed because you’re too close, however, very occasionally, it is possible to prevent a situation escalating, by getting an offending player away from the scene quickly.
Being ‘Matey’ – the problem with this is that the players and referees do know each other (and despite what you may believe there is a lot of mutual respect before and after a match). There is only a small pool of referee’s in the Premier League and when you’re meeting the same players week after week you inevitably get to know their names and it’s a lot easier to manage them if you call them by their name rather than just “player”.
Post-Match TV – this is very unlikely to happen, the main reason being that TV and the media decide before they ask a question what reply they really want and it’s the one that will produce the most controversy. When the Premier League started, Sky had a recently retired referee in the studio, but that was soon dropped as explaining the reason why a decision had been given stopped any arguments, and TV loves a good argument!
Well that turned into a posting to rival Wind, I’m glad I wasn’t trying to do it on my phone!
If you’ve managed to read all of it then well done.
Just a couple more
Trev@18 – 5th & 6th officials in Europe – They actually do more than you see, the joys of being ‘miked up’. There are a lot of conversations that clarify a situation very quickly without anyone else realising.
Noosa@23 – TV replays, Fact, Yes. Opinion, NO and please don’t let Blatter introduce one review per game, that’ll be like opening Pandora’s Box, we’ll end up with games that last as long as American Football and are as start/stop as Rugby is becoming.
Great read Noosa, cheers for that. And some interesting posts as well. Good stuff all round.
Gooner Ref,
Many thanks for those really interesting responses.
I may be wrong but I get the feeling we might recognise your real name if we could see it.
If not, then maybe it’s time we could. Can’t get yourself a few games at The Emirates, I suppose ?
Gooner Ref – at the risk of appearing overly contrary, I’m not sure of all this talk about one of the ref’s key requirements being their ‘man management’ skills.
Surely that contradicts the main pre-requisite, which is that they’re a completely neutral/unswayable abitrator and exactor of the rules. I think referees get into murky ground when they start trying to ‘man-manage’, ‘take into account of the occasion’, ‘know certain personalities’, ‘try and let things go for the first 20 minutes’ etc. etc. I know Clattenburg’s fallen foul of this a couple of times when Chelsea tried to distort something he said conversationally to Mikel (the point being he shouldn’t have left himself open to that anyway), and when Lallana accused of him of saying “you’re very different now since you’ve started playing for England”….
The only thing I would like the refereeing fraternity try to come to grips with is the extremely professional, cynical, ‘rotational fouling’ that Mourinho employs at Chelsea. I think there’s ambiguity about how many minor fouls by one player constitutes a booking, and often Chelsea’s fouls are seemingly innocuous – they’re attacking a corner, it’s cleared, an opposition player gets it and is blocked off, and the ref blows for a free-kick. As it’s 80 yds from goal and it’s usually just minor contact, I don’t think some referees conscience how cynical and tactically advantageous these acts of gamesmanship are. That said, you’d be opening up a pandora’s box if you started trying to introduce systematic yellow cards for lesser fouls (it’s already enough of a non-contact sport), or a yellow card after a certain number of team fouls. Still, I’d like to see them coming to terms with and acknowledging this development – I can’t remember who refereed the Man U-Chelsea game but he did a better fist of it, to the point that Ivanovic was sent off for accumulation of fouls by the end, and from the resulting free-kick, Man Utd equalised from a situation that might not have developed had Ivanovic still been on the pitch.
Gooner Ref, Thanks for your excellent comments. I never would have suggested calling anyone “player” instead of their name though. A gruff “hey you” seems adequate unless it’s John Terry in which case “c*cksucker should cover it. 🙂
Great article, Noosa, and some really interesting comments from Gooner Ref. Top stuff.
Interesting article, thanks Noosa Gooner.
My own pet peeve, apart from referees’ inconsistency is the daft FA insistence that “The referee is always right”. Not only is that fairly obviously impossible, it’s also too easy to prove wrong.
I suggest that a much better policy would be “The referee’s decision is final”.
If such a plicy were in place there would be no more contesting that “so-and-so wasn’t offside”, “the ball wasn’t over the line” and even “I never touched him, ref”. The ref’s made his decision. That’s that.
If the referee is wrong, which would happen about as often as it does now, then it’s a simple “Yes, it does look as though the ref made a mistake. That’s bad luck, but these things even themselves out over the course of a season, you know”.
If referees make an unacceptable number of mistakes, then they should be sanctioned – send them for “re-training”, suspend them for a week or two, whatever.
This change wouldn’t make everything perfect, but then nothing will. What it would do is stop the FA from making themselves look ridiculous by defending, say, a referee who shows a player two yellow cards without sending him off – “Mr So-and-so appears to have made a mistake; we will have to consider not appointing him to high-profile matches for a while”.
It would also provide a little amusement to the rest of the population as we try to predict what the FA will find next to make themselves look ridiculous.
COYG
Great to see a typical Welbeck performance tonight. His movement and sheer mobility indicate why I prefer him to Giroud , although it is lovely to see the HFB back. Gibbs and Wilshere played well too but we got a real steal of a deal when Danny signed
I enjoyed Noosa’s excellent article and would add one issue- the emergence in the last few years of the personality ref. he us the referee who thinks people have come to see him. Like Poll or Webb they love to sign autographs and schmooze the after dinner circuit. Great referees are generally unobtrusive and they improve the game by this quality. The worst refereeing performance I have ever seen was from Graham Poll at Highbury in 2001 . He fundamentally altered the outcome of that game by sending off Ray Parlour. His positioning was awful and he lost the respect of players on both sides. Schadenfreude in 2006 when he booked that Criatian player three times
Solid work Noosa.
Ttg … remind me how many goals Danny has score in the Premiership so far? And how many missed chances?
He’s scored well in less competitive CL matches and for England, but I’ve yet to be convinced he’s half as much use to us playing No9 as he would be on a wing.
Öskar
Lovely to see 6 Arsenal players for England today, even if three weren’t required. Jack did well from a very deep position which I don’t believe suits him. His 94% passing accuracy in the match may surprise some.
Öskar
Ooops, make that 2 not required, the Ox did make a late appearance.
Öskar
Thank you Noosa for highlighting a thankless task.
Andy,the under the influence ref on Hackney marsh would yellow card players for swearing,even if it was’nt at any one or anything in particular.
“Dis is a public park”.
Gooner Ref,
Thanks for the insight – interesting observation on the “miking” of the extra officials.
The one day cricket currently playing here between Australia and South Africa has the on field umpires and the video umpire miked up. The tv audience is able to listen in as they discuss and adjudicate various decisions. You may not agree with the decision but it’s good to hear the thought process.
I doubt it will ever happen but I think a similar experiment with football would also be interesting.
Cheers.
In some Aussie cricket comps they also mic players. Just imagine what some footballers might have to say after being hacked down! Hmmmm, not a good idea.
Öskar
They’ve had the egg chasing refs miked up for years. They used to switch them off when talking to TMO, but don’t now. Just makes Steve Walsh sound an ever bigger ‘celebrity ref look at me I call all the players mate’ cunt than he already looks.
I may say bad things about the referees sometimes but it is one thing to say such things and quite another to disrespect them like this.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/14/greece-professional-football-suspended
Disgraceful.
Re miking-up, the feed will never be available live, there was a match a few years ago (I seem to remember that it was an Arsenal one) where they had a microphone on the ref so that you could hear the conversations between the ref and the players. Trouble was the most frequent thing heard was the ‘bleep’ to drown out the words the players were using…..
Trev@35, unlikely you’d recognise me, Bath would be more likely to.
Gregoire@37 – don’t mistake ‘man-management’ for trying to be too friendly with players, its more about how you ‘manage’ their personalities, two players will react differently to the same situation and its about knowing what is the best way to deal with each one.
bt8@50 – Disrespect? the day this happens in this country is the day I give up, it’s not disrespect, it’s at least GBH and sounds like attempted murder!
Oskar, not at all surprised to see jack with a high pass rate against low quality oppositon.
When he can do it week in week out v top level teams under real pressure, then we can get excited for the great arsenal hope….
Always good to find a negative in a positive, eh ?
@51 Gooner Ref;
Said match was Arsenal away at Millwall in League Cup. From memory ref was David Elleray. Biggest offender was TA, who called a him a ‘fucking cheat’, amongst other things.
Cheers Noosa.
And Gooner Ref.
Interesting stuff. Oh yes, indeedy. I had always assumed that refs aim to be completely useless. This idea that they are actually aiming “to enforce the laws of the game” is a concept that I may take some time adjusting to.
I suppose my first reaction, upon making this discovery, is a simple question- “then why are they all so crap it?”
“then why are they all so crap AT it?”
Sorry about that typo. I’m blaming a bad call from the ref…
http://youtu.be/G4ruNosLNOE
They were also mic’d up at Anfield where TA famously yelled at Steve Mcmahon “Do you fuckin’ want some?” in the aftermath of a free-kick award.
OTD
Welbeck has only scored two PL goals but his running and intelligence has made Sanchez even more dangerous as evidenced by last week at Swansea.
He scored a high quality hat- trick against Galatasaray and his international scoring record is excellent. If you shift him to the wing he will be half the player as his United experience indicated. It is not as if Giroud’s goal scoring record is significantly better. I think it might be interesting to see Giroud and Welbeck used together upfront in the way that Sanogo and Giroud were last season on occasions.
Arsenal’s midfield creativity has dropped recently since Ozil’s injury and Ramsey’s prolonged spell of poor form
Fully agree TTG@58.
I think Welbeck playing in a mobile CF position alongside HFB with the mobility of Sanchez/Santi and Walcot/Ox joining in from either side and Ozil/LJW/Rambo providing the through balls is a mouthwatering prospect.
If we can sort out the defensive midfielder and a consistently fit back 4 behind that offensive group, then we will be a truly competitive outfit.
Bath,
mouthwatering indeed.
The trouble is that the Arsenal team sheet is just like a menu. Each week you turn up salivating at the prospect of your anticipated, favoured comestible, only to be told that it is off.
“Sorry, Sir, we are unable to source any more Özil Schnitzels until January next year”.
“Ok, I’ll have the Walcott Wellington please”.
“Ah, a fine choice, Sir. Unfortunately we haven’t heard from the suppliers for over 10 months”.
“Well, I’ll just skip the main course and try a dessert then. Do you have a Debuchy Delight ?”
“Not this month, Sir”.
“Well, what do you have ?”
“We have a small chance to get possibly the greatest steak that ever lived. But it is a gamble. It has not yet properly matured, Sir, and I’m afraid it is going to cost you an absolute fortune to sit here while you wait to see how it turns out”.
“Sorry, but i’m afraid that’ s a no go !”
Where in the Rules of the Game does it say that mustaches are preferable to beards? Yellow card.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/16/turkish-club-genclerbirligi-chairman-ilhan-cavcav-ban-beards
Just needs to sign Gillette as a sponsor, bt8b:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02925/world-cup-shave_2925486k.jpg
NBN. You have figured out a way to bring in more money to the Turkish game. Who said there was no use for the Interlull? 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpc9fxkuV6o
Heh ! 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IakkqyRBHRI
The middle day of Interlull
Of all the days is the most dull,
No game, no news and no high spots,
Not even injuries to the Totts,
Laughs are rarer than hens teeth,
The blog’s so quiet
But look beneath
That number 64 –
That’s “dot”,
A man who makes me laugh a lot !
And so did the Laurel and Hardy dancing 🙂
Come out, cba !
Canine Bitten Arse !
You know you are ! 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5p3i_t3c80
Joining up the dots, Trev?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTGNnSgfp5Q
If it’s a dance you want –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MRcmMrVrnU
. Could Be Anyone.
But 64 was brilliant.
If only our midfield could display such co-ordination with our defence.
Maybe the band would help?
. Could Be Arranged?
Bvermouth has scored for Israel. Surely Gin will be next?
Thanks for an informative article, Noosa.
I too have long held that referees should be allowed (though not obliged) to talk to the press after the game.
Wouldn’t it be lovely to hear a ref respond to a manager’s post-match comments by saying, ” I don’t like to criticise managers but Mr. Rednapp got his substitutions badly wrong today, and as for Mark Hughes………. I think the Premier League deserves better managers.”
Yes, Ttg, just two goals in the most competitive arena, one each against Villa and Hull. His other goals have been against Switzerland, San Marino, Slovenia and Galatasary, all very mediocre opposition. But what concerns me more about Danny as a striker is the number of goal-scoring opportunities he’s stuffed. Even one of his goals on Saturday was a mishit that fluked its way into the net. Danny’s major strengths are his speed and work-rate. What he doesn’t have is spatial awareness in the area or a striker’s instinct.
If anyone should play upfront with OG, bath, it should be Theo. He has much quicker feet in the box than Danny and his speed when playing off OG, on the rare occasions we’ve seen it, makes them by far our best striking combo.
Öskar
My thoughts on the possibility of seeing Theo and OG together … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrBF_QLTHUc
Öskar
Oskar: Not sure how you compute that a goal against Villa is any more challenging than a goal against a seasoned Champions League side like Galatasaray or an eminently solid international side like Switzerland. At the end of the day, all top strikers’ records (even those of the best – Messi and Ronaldo) are naturally bloated with a higher percentage against ‘lesser’ sides – “fill yer boots” is the old adage, I believe. Where Welbeck really needs to kick on is how he distinguishes himself in the bigger games, and with matches v Man Utd, Borussia Dortmund and a resurgent Southampton coming up, we’ll soon find out….
Incidentally, Welbeck’s first goal against Slovenia wasn’t ‘fluked’ at all. It was actually a commendable, instinctive, poacher’s finish, whereby there was a bit of pinball in the Slovenian box, and Welbeck reacted very quickly to re-divert the ball goalwards with his wrong foot! Quite impressive really – and ironically a good goalscorer’s goal, like his one v Hull, where he adjusted his body position quickly to steer a deceptively difficult chance home under a lot of pressure from defenders.
By the way Oskar, I am in agreement that having Giroud and Walcott back will ease the burden on Welbeck. Danny’s gone from bit-part wide-man for Man Utd to permanently leading the line for over 10 games for a much bigger club! I think he’d benefit being rotated and coming off the bench from time-to-time, as I think will happen if/when our full compliment of midfielders/attackers are ready to go come Dec/Jan.
PS – And Welbeck may even score 15+ this season (he’s on 5 already). Aye one can dream!
My point about his goals against Villa and Hull was that they were NOT class opposition, any more than Galatasaray or San Marino were. If he’d scored in the Premiership against Man $iteh or the chavs or even the spuds I’d be more impressed. Simply put he is still to convince me as a striker against top opposition. His positional sense in the area is abysmal at times.
I have nothing against the lad’s work-rate or enthusiasm, I just see him more as a dangerous winger.
Öskar
I think Welbeck is still learning the main strikers role and has many areas to improve on. But he has excellent potential and a good attitude and desire. We will be able to judge him better and better as he has time to fully get to grips with the role but he will surely improve.
The question is ‘how much?’
Refereeing is a thankless job and the ones doing it does deserve a lot of accolades. Yet there are instances where refs have been poor and that costs the game. I for one can never forget the 50th game at OT, the way the neville brothers did the hatchet job on Reyes and co was shambolic and even more was the way it was ignored. The dive by shrek culminated the horror show that day and it just felt that everyone conspired to make sure we lose. I can never forget that day and that display.
Saturday is still a way to go but reports of blind being injured should mean united are clutching straws. But then when we play them we lose the game in the mind than on the pitch. Hopefully a point to prove Welbeck, a returning Theo and a “”fresh”” superman in Sanchez will have other ideas.
OTD
Have you analysed Giroud’s scoring record against top opposition ?
Chelsea– 0
Man Utd–0
Man City—0
Liverpool–1
Spurs—2
He scored against Bayern and Dortmund in the CL but otherwise he’s just as much a flat- track bully as Welbeck. He missed gift- wrapped chances in three games against Chelsea that I can remember and is way slower than Welbeck. Hope it’s not a case of absence makes the heart grow fonder? I don’t think Giroud would be starting upfront for England if he qualified
Vinay, wasn’t that also the game where Rio Ferdinand brought down Freddie Ljungberg when he was clean through on goal and it wasn’t even a free kick, let alone the red card it should have been? There was just no way Mike Riley was going to let us get through that game with anything other than a loss.
Anyway.
Always interesting to hear from those who have been refs themselves, and I particularly agree with the point someone made about the number of people in the game (both current and ex players) who simply don’t seem to know the rules. Many so-called experts seem to think “he got the ball” is an excuse to do anything, for example. And how often do we hear “last man, clear sending off” when there is nothing in the rules anywhere about “the last man”. I also once heard a pundit moan about how the ref was wrong to give a yellow card to a player who had committed several fouls saying “either it’s a yellow or it isn’t, there is nothing in the laws of the game about earning a yellow by fouling too much”, clearly ignorant of the fact that repeated offenses is explicitly stated as a reason for getting a yellow card.
@ TTG 84
Good point about the ‘flat-track bully’ concept! Also, at Man Utd, ironically Welbeck had a reputation more as a ‘big game’ player….Someone Fergie could always trust in the important matches. I seem to remember he opened the scoring against us in the 8-2 rout at the beginning of the 2011/12 season, he scored the winner against us at The Emirates in the return, he scored at the Bernabeu in the 1-1 draw against Real Madrid in the Champions Lge knock-out stages, and there are probably other examples that an actual Manure fan could provide. (Internationally of course, as well as scoring against San Marino as OTD so gleefully points out, his ‘abysmal’ movement was evidently good enough to score a majestic backheeled winner in the Euro 2012 game against Sweden, and he scored a beautiful dink over Courtois in the 1-0 home win against an excellent Belgium just before the tournament).
Again, I think the either/or Welbeck and Giroud debate is a bit of fallacy. They both have their strengths, a lot will depend on injuries and form and how best they can integrate with Alexis and Theo, but I wouldn’t be averse to playing them together in a more direct 4-4-2 when certain matches dictate that.
I can see both Giroud and Welbeck playing together if we end up chasing a game and want to push players up front. But overall I think that will be the exception and not the rule in terms of choosing a normal formation. So I think it will be an either/or situation rather than seeing both on the field simultaneously and my feeling is that it will primarily be Welbz because his pace, technique, movement, physicality and overall work ethic offer us that bit more than Olivier.
Interesting that most Man Utd fans reckoned that the reason that Welbeck never made himself an automatic starter was due to the number of games he was asked to play “out of position” on the wing.
Wenger might be able to improve him in that role but if Welbeck is going to offer us something different, I see him as playing in the centre.
Maybe he looks different on the plasma screen? 😉
Lars@83: A lot of the problem about perceived inconsistencies in refereeing comes down, to my mind, to the ever changing guidance on interpretation of the law that is given to match-day referees. FIFA — and this may be the only good thing I ever have or ever will say about it — at least publishes each season its guidance notes to referees on how to interpret the laws of the game. I don’t know of the same being done for Premiership games. Perhaps Noosa or Ref can enlighten us on this point.
This explainer with Mike Riley of the ref’s guild, Professional Game Match Officials Ltd., — yes, refereeing is a business — is illuminating on how interpretation of the rules can readily change midseason and that the PGMOL sees that as a positive development (contained in points 1 and 2).
http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/referees/about-pgmol.html
It is also frank about the poor job done letting fans know about changes to interpretations. The explainer seems to assume that explaining them to Sky pundits will end up with us being well informed. PGMOL officials must never watch Sky.
And, yes, you are spot on with your “last man” comment. Phrase is nowhere in FIFA’s most recent interpretation of the laws. Denial “of a obvious goalscoring opportunity” is the operative phrase.
Yes I would agree with that Z. I rate Welbz highly – just not so sure if he has the surgical finishing capability to become a really world class striker if y’know what I mean? And maybe that could change with the right support as he’s still very young. Whatever we think, both Alexis & Welbz have done all our scoring so far this year with little or no help from anyone else which is quite remarkable for two newbies. If our midfield begun to play at all and with Kos & Debauchy due back soon, I think we could put a strong run together in the second half of the season.
Debauchy? The French Carlos Vela?
Heh
Joe @88 –
“I rate Welbz highly – just not so sure if he has the surgical finishing capability ……………….maybe that could change with the right support ……….. ”
so, would that be a surgical support, then ? 😉
I would imagine the under 21 match between France and England will be on TV in the UK.
2-2 at half time.Sanogo has scored a brace and Carl Jenkinson has come on as a substitute for England.
I only started watching at the half hour mark but it is shaping up to be a good match.
French flair and Sanogo and English positional discipline and Jenkinson.
TTG@82 – well said regarding “absence makes the heart grow fonder’.
Also known as arsenals “greatest injured player ever will be returning soon syndrome”.
It seems that arsenal players who are injured grow an extra leg, an extra heart, more goals and assists, increase their pace ten fold and have greater potential then ever in their careers during prolonged periods of injury or during international breaks after a disappointing loss.
We do seem to have the greatest ever list of returning injured players with such huge potential, the footballing world has ever seen.
seems only an injury ago, some on here complaining about giroud and cant wait to get Wellbeck into the team
How quickly we forget.
One other thing which I would say in defence of all our signings who by and large have been our best players this season. It requires a huge personal adjustment to move to a new club, in a new area let alone one in a new country, to adjust to new teammates and often a new league.
Because of the price paid we often expect them to hit the ground running and Sanchez certainly has but I think we need to allow them some settling in time.
Young Chambers has done remarkably well to keep his feet on the ground in a period where he has moved to a much more high- profile club, played in a new position , been capped for England and had to adjust to a life lived more openly in the media. He is nowhere near the finished article but who could expect him to be?
Looking at Giroud , he took some time to get his first League goal and was not prolific in the CL in his first season so expecting Welbeck to settle in with greater rapidity is a bit unfair. The lad has been away three times with England during his spell with us. Frankly I am delighted with his impact so far.
Every new signing is something of a gamble and I think we can count at least four of our additions as very satisfactory investments at this early stage. Ospina needs a run in the team when he gets fit to show what he can do. The farce at Spurs and developing one at Liverpool underlines how you can spunk serious money away on poor signings so credit where it is fur. The irony is that we needed a couple more but at least the ones we have show promising signs of being money very well spent
Trev@91: Truss you to come up with a pun like that.
Comparing Danny and OG as No9s is not comparing apples with apples, guys. They have different qualities and it will come down to who makes the better partner for Theo, imo. With Alexis, Ox, Danny, Gnabry and Poldi (and I suspect another winger in January) all capable wingmen I see AW giving Theo his run in the middle where he has more reliable shooting boots than anyone in the squad bar Alexis and Poldi (on his day).
If I’m right then OG with his aerial ability and knock-downs clearly makes a better foil for Theo.
Öskar
Aussie, it’s not just absence that makes the heart grow fonder in OG’s case, it’s the lack of success in his absence. We were considerably better with him in the last part of last season than we’ve been without him since his injury. And at least as much in defence as in attack. The guy gets about in a game more than anyone else in the team.
Öskar
Oskar: we don’t play 4-4-2, and I don’t see Wenger picking a team round Walcott, especially when you’ve got players like Alexis and Ozil to accommodate too. When everyone’s fit, I think it will be a 4-2-3-1, with Theo and Alexis flanking HFB/Welbz up-front, and Ozil playing just ahead of a deeper midfield 2 of Arteta and Ramsey. Of course, this is all predicated on form and having the luxury of a fully fit squad (insert your joke here)…
Here are some comparative numbers for those debating Welbeck vs Giroud. Premiership games only, and Giroud at the more advanced stage of his career, to be taken into account.
Welbeck
2014/15 Arsenal: 2 goals in 10 games; goal every 370 mins played
2013/14 Man U: 9 goals in 25 games; goal every 162 mins played
2012/13 Man U: 1 goals in 27 games; goal every 1,301 mins played
2011/12 Man U : 9 goals in 30 games; goal every 223 mins played
2010/11 Sunderland (loan): 6 goals in 26 games; goal every 293 mins played
2009/10 Man U: 0 goals in 5 games;
2008/09 Man U: 1 goal in 3 games; goal every 119 mins played
Giroud
2014/15 Arsenal: 1 goal in 2 games; goal every 74 mins played
2013/14 Arsenal: 16 goals in 36 games; goal every 192 mins played
2012/13 Arsenal: 11 goals in 34 games; goal every 212 mins played
Bang
Well in, Porco.
One way AW could play his preferred 4-2-3-1 is for Giroud to start against bus parkers, where his ability to be the bouncing board off which the midfielders can ping the passes to work through the gaps could count most, and for Welbeck to start against the bigger teams who are readier to attack, where his pace and pressing count for more.
Gregoire@98 – precisely and exactly.
That is our strongest set up.
I can only imagine that AW has also been dreaming of such an opportunity to have those players you correctly named in those exact positions actually running out onto the field at the one time.
Even better it would be great to see that 5 running out togeather week after week with no more injuries.
Cmon shad, make it happen please.
Oskar: OG does work hard for the team but I also think danny works very hard for the team also.
Both good players IMHO and good pick ups by the boss.
Porco. That is a bright spark and inspiration to us all. I’m sure you would say that brilliant research by the monks at Castle Ned made it all possible. 🙂
Evening all. Plan for this week is book reviews for tomorrow night and Thursday, then a Yanited preview on Friday.
Let’s hope nothing else interferes. 🙂
The monks take their humble reward in the knowledge of a worthwhile job well done, bt8b, — that and a lot of of their sacred tea, which is suspiciously dark with a rather creamy-looking head.
Ned I had some of their sacred tea night before last with my fish and chips. Quite a delicious combo. 🙂
We have a game this week?
I must say that does sound exceptional. 🙂
It’s not a game we ever win, 8ball, but an exception to prove that rule is long overdue and this week could be it. In fact I’ll go so far as to predict it. 3-1?
I agree about Danny’s work rate, Aussie, as I have mentioned several times. It’s OG’s work in defence particularly that I think makes him more valuable. That is where we need most help currently.
Öskar
Interesting to see that many have Welbeck in their line-up when we have our full squad, for me I see him on the bench unless we play 4-4-2 or something that requires two strikers!
Giroud will be the first in line always if he’s fit.
Oskar, I would prefer to see ourdefenders and DM do their job and defend propoerly first, before we start worrying about wellbecks defence, likewise for Ozil.
BB- perhaps one of the main reason for many preferring wellbeck as the lone front man is he offers a touch of unpredictabilit and is a bit un arsenal like. He has that extra ability go get in behind and be dangerous and is not a standard arsene wenger player.
Many arsenal fans are becoming quite bored with our plan A of passing the ball into the goal.
With OG- he offers that standard arsenal predictability and you know exactly what we will get each game. And that is not a bad thing when plan A is working.
Wellbeck has a bit of thierry about him. Arrogant, cocky, fast, skilful and likes to shoot on chance.
I prefer Welbeck as well over Giroud when it comes to who starts the game. Nothing against Giroud but i believe Danny suits the team and the style of play better. He can very well be the fulcrum that Sanchez works on for danny does help sanchez and Giroud has yet to play with Alexis so i rather have something working than the unproven.
Giroud could and should be the alternate to Danny as well as when chasing the game, the 4-4-2 will mean Giroud plays his part. I think the one thing Giroud scores over Danny is his link up play, most of our goals last season had him having a say and that is something because of the understanding he has with his team mates. Danny is still learning that.
I dont see Giroud starting sat or in the dortmund game but then stranger things have happened so never say never.
Last week was the death of the paragraph. This week is the death of the comma…
Can Lianne Sanderson play CB?
Gregoire @112,
and proof reading ………… 🙁
Great work, NBN,
looks like Danny is well-back in the scoring charts. 🙁
Boom! Boom! Trev, though I was expecting a commakaze run from you in response to Gregoire’s 112.
Re: Oskar @108. I also am hoping our game this week is exceptional in that way. Actually it is pretty damn close to a sure thing that we will beat them eventually. 🙂
Danny’s pretty good going forward, but he slumps off towards the end of matches, and he’s rather slow to get back. Of course he may improve with more games and let’s see if he can before Giroud comes back.
But unless we’re ahead comfortably or Giroud needs a break, Welbeck is back in the pecking order, in fact he may even face competition from Sanogo. We’re not short of forwards but as a unit, Giroud probably works better than the others if only just.
😀
BB
Are you serious?? Welbeck is in a different league at the moment to Sanogo who is a boy who is under serious pressure from young Afobe when he returns and Akpom. Welbeck is an international striker and in my opinion superior to Giroud who is limited being neither, quick or a great finisher . He is however very intelligent in his link- up play and good in the air
TTG,
Hope Welbeck realizes his potential quick, not sure if he’s going to get too many matches once Giroud gets back from his injury.
While I’ll admit Welbeck is currently better than Sanogo, in the current team that we have now we need a player who can hold the ball and defend and be more positionally aware as well, think Giroud has the edge on Welbeck there.
When the team’s doing well, Welbeck looks good but get behind in a match and you can see his positional sense is off and he isn’t chasing and winning challenges enough, that’s my observation and would be happy to be proven wrong in the next few matches if Danny improves on his current game.
However, unless Welbeck scores a handful of goals(see Alexis) before Giroud is fit, it is my contention that Giroud, without a doubt is a better fit for our team currently, his positional sense is better, he wins more balls, he’s also a better header of the ball and I’ll wager that Arsene will start him 9 out of 10 times if they’re both fit.
If Manchester United are going to pay their players 6.6% lower salaries than a year ago it only seems right that their club should get 6.6% fewer points than a year ago.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30095286
Interesting, the part about their “indifferent start to the season under coach Louis van Gaal.”
There’s a quick and easy solution to that. 😉
BB,
Sanogo is competition for Welbeck ?
Have we signed another Sanogo I don’t know about ‘cos you can’t be talking about Yaya ?
And two of the things Welbeck does do very well are holding the ball up and chasing back and winning challenges ?
Amazing what some people see on a football pitch ………….
Have a book review >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
While watching the U.S.-Ireland game I decided Kyle Beckmerman is the best American player and asked myself the question, “What makes him so good?” Answer: That split second when the defenders try to figure out what’s going on with his hair. 😉
http://www.sbisoccer.com/images/old/6a00e54ef2975b88330168e998c98e970c-pi.jpg
Trev,
Will have to disagree, Sanogo as with Campbell as long as they are still here will be competition for Welbeck. Welbeck may be the better player now but nevertheless he will get some competition!
As for running and chasing down balls… sure he does that for some matches but definitely not enough and definitely not as well as Giroud. He may yet improve which i hope he’ll do to give Arsene a selection headache but till then… Giroud is my first choice still though, better in the areas where we need him.
Amazing what some people Don’t see on a football pitch….
😀