Gunners Mullered By Corners
Dec 21st, 2014 by 'holic
On a strange afternoon at Anfield Arsenal ended up bringing home a point that frankly didn’t look likely for all but the last of the opening 45 minutes. That they only brought home a point is equally astonishing after taking the lead in the second-half and seeing the hosts reduced to ten men in the second of nine added minutes.
The first half was a tense experience as Liverpool flooded the midfield and dominated possession. A subdued Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Mathieu Flamini struggled to contain the lively Lallana and Coutinho, while Calum Chambers was finding the marauding Markovic a real handful.
Gerrard and Lallana were off target with the earliest opportunities but Wojciech Szczesny was required to save from Markovic before the same player again missed the target from a good position. A goal never felt far away and arrived in the final minute of the half when Coutinho found a yard of space on the edge of the box and fired in off the far post.
In all honesty Liverpool deserved the advantage at the break, but were denied it when Gerard fouled Alexis and the resulting free-kick eventually saw Mathieu Debuchy claim his first goal in an Arsenal shirt as he climbed above Skrtel to head in at the far post.
Whatever was said at half-time appeared to have an effect in the second-half. The one way traffic of the opening period gave way to a more end to end pattern as Arsenal got closer to their opponents and started to move the ball around with a little more certainty themselves. Coutinho and Santi Cazorla traded chances but both were off target. Then came what would prove to be a pivotal moment as Giroud accidentally trod on the head of the prone Skrtel, and six minutes of treatment ensued that would come back to haunt the Gunners.
Lucas and Gerrard both missed the target, as did Cazorla and the increasingly influential Giroud. The Frenchman did not miss, however, when finding himself unmarked in front of goal to convert Cazorla’s glorious cut-back. Harsh on Liverpool in the context of the match as a whole, but somewhat deserved for the much-improved visitors.
Not surprisingly Liverpool pushed on in search of the equaliser but created little of consequence. Gerrard brought a save out of Szczesny and Lucas again sliced wide. The introduction of Francis Coquelin for the goalscorer suggested we were preparing to dig in to secure the win, but in a frantic last minute of the ninety the Ox called to the bench to withdraw him. He and Alexis made way for Monreal and Campbell.
Borini now became the central figure in this phase, bringing an excellent save out of Szczesny, earning a yellow card somewhat foolishly for dissent, then a second yellow (it surely should have been a straight red?) for aiming his studs into Santi’s chest. Although seven of the nine added minutes remained that should have sealed Liverpool’s fate. It didn’t.
In the 97th minute Liverpool won a corner, the errant Kieran Gibbs strayed from his post, the out-of-sorts Per Mertesacker cowered under the challenge of the unmarked and onrushing Skrtel. The header was inside the vacant post and three points became one. The BFG is missing his mate, Laurent Koscielny, and can be forgiven for having the odd off-day given the demands being placed on him as the only fit central defender we have. It might not be a bad idea to get Nigel Winterburn to come in and work with Gibbs. If he thinks he has made it, he needs to think again.
Collectively those on the pitch failed at a crucial moment, of that there is no doubt. As someone rather dryly observed on Twitter (sorry I cannot remember who to credit) we probably don’t get much practice at defending corners given our inability to deliver one. Again today that failing was evident. However at half-time if someone had offered us a point I’m sure many would have taken it.
Twelve points adrift of both Chelsea and City at Christmas. It isn’t what we wanted in August, but isn’t terminal, although the five points gap to Manchester United in third place should perhaps occupy our immediate focus. Well that, and some extra training on taking and defending corners on Christmas Day.
109 Responses to “Gunners Mullered By Corners”
What Esso said at 135 in last drinks.
Very poor.
Mugged in Liverpool. Who’d a thunk it?
Extra training. Yes!
Great point on training for corners. Pitiful deliveries. Good report sir.
By the way, that’s not the first time BFG has cowered under an aerial challenge this year and not having Koscielny alongside is no kind of excuse for a retired early German international with over 100 caps.
I like him a lot and think he has been harshly treated by the pundits since he arrived, but he’s got to stop talking about playing a good game and start actually doing it.
At the moment we have someone playing in our defence who looks like he doesn’t fancy it any more.
Cheers holic for a measured post.
Lately i enjoy this bar way more then actually watching that pack of overpaid weaklings who currently wear the Arsenal shirt play football. Poor stuff.
Not posting much. Self imposed media pseudo-ban. Still reading tho.
Cheers holics.
And – glad to see cba back.
Thanks for a super quick, well balanced piece Mr Holic.
I am at a loss as to what Wenger says or does before these games? Maybe they all have a nice warm mug of Horlicks, sit round Val Doonican’s fire, whering their cosy fluffy pullovers singing sea shantys…
They looked soooo out of sorts, lacksidazical (sp?) and utterly shite it is a miracle we salvaged anything, yet I am still gutted for not taking the maximum points from a piss poor Liverpool.
I think you are way too kind on the BFG as he has been gash all season.
And the same can be said of whoever gets lumbered with trying to play as a *cough* holding midfielder *cough*…
We now need to win a few on the bounce, but away from home, I have my doubts we can consistently do that. And unless AW gets busy in the January sales, top 4 will look even tougher than the usual twisty turny cliff hanger.
Last season we played so much better, yet this season, we have significantly added to the squad. That really does not look good for the manager, despite the players’ world cup exertions, injuries, alien abductions, phantom pregnancies, etc…
on 21 Dec 2014 at 8:42 pm198Thundertinygooner
I watched the match on the big screen at the ground in the presence of Nutty Winterburn and hundreds of young Gooners. A good time was had by all ….until the game began.
I thought we were pathetic in the first half, as bad as I can remember so to take the lead through Giroud on 64 was a bonus we didn’t deserve ( just like United recently) . We had so many players below par it was very hard to see us hanging on and yet again we conceded from a corner just as we did against Citeh.
Interestingly Winterburn underlined the Wenger method of encouraging players to make their own decisions and to improve their own performance levels through taking responsibility on the pitch. Sadly I have to say while this works well with creative and attacking players I prefer my defenders to be drilled and do things like marking spare opponents in the penalty area. Nevertheless we had enough experience out there to see out that game against ten men and should have done better.
Nutty was asked at half- time if Wenger would change anything but said that he rarely makes tactical adjustments then. In fairness we didn’t and ostensibly didn’t need to , when I would have brought on Coquelin for Welbeck to play the double pivot in midfield with Flamini. Flamini was very poor today and Coquelin frankly can’t be much worse . I would also have subbed Ox for Campbell early in the second half as he was obviously carrying a knock.
Congrats though to Ches who did well, Debuchy who is a great warrior and Santi who is playing very well at present. Giroud is still not fully fit but is a dangerous player and will become even better as his fitness increases.
Young Chambers is an admirable lad but needs a rest, hence I don’t buy the sense in making him the deputy CB . It is too much pressure. Every time I see us struggle I try not to repeat that we need a good DM ( much better than the Flamster) and an experienced CB but today again it was self- evident.
I expected a point before the game and a point at Anfield especially after conceding first is never too bad but we could have had three points tonight
Ps- Winterburn when asked what he thought if Gibbs said he was better going forward but not as good a defender. What he is not is as consistent as Nigel was and the variance in performances throughout the team is a worry
I think Per’s still in his World Cup funk. Needs to snap out of it and show the Nasty side.
I forgot Nigel and yourself were at close quarters today, Ttg. I really do think they should get him in to teach Gibbs the role again. He is turning into the new Clichy.
A very measured report holic, on what quite frankly was the biggest pile of shit i’ve seen since at least the last time i watche an away game. we were completely outplayed in the first half, a non existent midfield and a team ethic of seemingly let the ball ricochet of whatever part of the body the ball comes to first. ( see Giroud for the 1st liverpool goal).
Chambers at right back was shocking. Bellerin may have less experience and i can only imagine he must have been injured, as although he can fuck up, at least he has the pace to rectify it. We have sent a better right back out on loan to west ham, how does that make sense?
how many on here actually thought we could hold out at 2-1? the moment we scored the 2nd, someone on arse blog said we would concede in the 97th minute or something.
I’m sure if we asked Gus Caesar and Chris whyte to help us out at the back they would turn us down as not to damage their defensive reputations.
I think some poeple seem to be lacking a little bit Per-spective…. 🙂
Nice one D 🙂
Holic @10. Couldn’t agree more. We have rather a lot of great defenders willing and able go pass on their expertise.
There is a good lad coming through at West Ham….Jenkinson? Wonder if we could buy him?
Good report, Holic, measured as usual.
The defensive side of our midfield just offers the back four no protection at all. Opposition runners seem to saunter at will into acres of space around the edge of our penalty area. Watching us at the moment, apart from the odd home game, is a fraught experience and the resulting tetchiness is getting quite tedious.
Am I a spoilt supporter with unrealistic expectations ? I hope not.
I am frustrated, even with our injuries, at seeing seasoned internationals acting with no composure, carelessly giving the ball away in stupid areas and not doing their defensive duties.
He is far from the only one but I have shared your included view of Gibbs for some time. I would love him to make it, as one of our own, but he is a fair way off at the moment.
The second half was better than the first but how sad, having fought to take a lead, to throw it away in injury time against ten men by leaving their most likely set piece scorer completely unmarked.
I’m hoping for a dictionary for Christmas as I really need to check that definition of stupidity …………….
Bellerin is indeed listed as injured – when did that happen ?
Here is the latest from physioroom dot com:
ARSENAL H Bellerin Knock no return date
A Ramsey Hamstring Injury 28th Dec 14
L Koscielny Calf Muscle Strain 28th Dec 14
T Rosicky Hip/Thigh Injury 26th Dec
M Arteta Calf Muscle Strain 26th Dec 14
J Wilshere Ankle/Foot Injury Feb 15
M Ozil LCL Knee Ligament Injury 1st Jan 15
One or two back for Boxing Day it seems. I’ll believe it when I see it.
If it were 19 minutes of extra football, they’ll win, 3 – 2. If it were 29, 4 – 2 and so on. No doubt in my mind.
No balls, no backbone in this Arsenal.
No blood, no sweat and a lot of tears.
Thing about sending Jenkinson out on loan, is that I can completely understand the logic in it. We signed Debuchy ar 1st choice meaning CJ would not be getting the regular games he clearly needed. Now he is making good progress, AFC will reap that benefit, either in january or next season.
We have messed up in not adding in other areas, IMO. Personally I think sending Jenkinson on loan was a genius move. He has now acquired world class god like status! 🙂
Holic
That was very quick and most of all to the point!
Apologies in last drinks I was only referring to he point that you can’t question your missing players when opportunity was wasted.
Anyways I hope you understand.
Anways… I am convinced that we will win all our festive fixtures, our injured and walking wounded are bound to return sooner rather than never and the month of January 2015 will go down in Arsenal folklore as a time of magical and wondrous additions and astute purchases by le grande Camberbert.
Happy Christmas and all the best.
🙂
No worries Arthur. 🙂
With a few hours of perspective I still think we were quite awful for large parts, but the way I see it almost all of that came from Flamini simply not being able to hack it anymore in high-tempo games. The back four was exposed time and again. Also, that they were down to ten for the last few minutes is not much of an issue to me. It was too little time left for that to have any real impact.
Before the game I said a draw wouldn’t be a disaster and I stand by that. I’m not happy with a draw, but it was a far worse result for Liverpool than it was for us.
Onwards and upwards. Drinks on the bar for everyone.
Just seen that second goal again and Mertesacker wants kicking in the balls.
But he no longer appears to have any 🙁
AW: “Overall I think once they were down to 10 men we were not dangerous anymore.
Hmm.
Could that have something to do with his taking Giroud off when he was our most dangerous threat??
Great heading to the post holic and the Twitter fella is right about our lack of corner practice…
Bellerin added to the bullshit injury list…
Those expecting injured players returning to save this season would be better off just looking forward to surprises from Santa.
No surprises and no excuses left for the arsenal.
Flamini now embarrasing.
Gibbs no idea defensively.
OX injured for most of the match until completely crocked
Corners for and against embarrasing
Szcez had a good game except his usual brain explosion moment..
Our medical team are an embarrassment and should not be allowed to call themselves doctors, physios or sports scientists…
Another season derailed by injures and poor injury management….
As poor a showing as Stoke….
At least Santa and Santi deliver…
Merry Christmas to all
Well it’s a point it could have been worse 😀
We let a smash-and-grab slip from our hands. That is not what top-drawer teams do.
Oppositions seem to have worked out that Chambers, who would, had the season gone to plan, spent it mostly on the bench as understudy CB, not playing right back, can be neutralized by playing a flying left winger against him. It takes out his attacking strengths and shows up his defensive inexperience.
What Lars said.
Flamini embarrassing? He was a one man midfield today, doing the job of three people. He has every right to ask wtf the people around him and behind him were doing all game, as none of them were giving him any help.
I am with Cynic on Flamini. His best days are in the past but he worked his socks off today and had precious little help from Santi and Ox. In truth we were completely overrun in MF and even the best DMFer would have struggled. Needed a change from the bench. Not sure Ox was fit enough for this game and he was a passenger throughout. An earlier sight of Le Coq might have helped.
Really want to be absolutely clear on one thing. I did not for one second think the Flamster was embarrassing.
And yesterday was not at all his fault (fault? 1 p at the Pool? Not that shabby!) at all.
But yes, it is hard to dominate a midfield away from home with a DM on a yellow after just a dozen or so minutes. Especially when you don’t have a proper Ramsey engine in there to help out.
The offensive two we played in midfield against Pool isn’t physical enough to really dictating play against any decent opposition. I love Caz and I love the Ox. I’m not really thinking anyone has been embarrassing. But those two players won’t do much for the poor DM, which really puts high demands on that player. And for me, Flam just doesn’t live up to the standard of bossing the midfield defensively by himself.
To his defence, not many players can.
But I agree with Lars, Flamini doesn’t cut it when playing as the sole player responsible for keeping our back line out of harms way.
Is it his fault that he had to do that job today? Not at all.
So, if you don’t mind me saying it, Cynic and Bath, I actually do agree with you. All the way.
My take on it being – Flamini just really got in a situation when he had to do a really hard job and didn’t do it that well.
If that is his fault, or if it is just down to the job being very hard due to circumstance, is of course up to debate. I’m very much ready to land right in-between those views. Never been the best player in the world, love his attitude, he is getting older and is not exactly improving, and today that yellow didn’t really help.
But embarrassing? Not for me. I never said that, and Lars never did, to my mind. But nah, Flam doesn’t really cut it in a game like this anymore. And I am really saying that with no hard feelings, because I would NEVER cut it in a game like this, but I’d sure want to play if the manager asked me. So I really do not begrudge any player for accepting a start. That would be crazy.
So we agree Flamini doesnt cut it at the top level. (Lars)
We agree Flamini is aging.
We agree Flamini is not strong enough to play at the top level in that role.
We agree he has been a loyal servant to arsenal, is a hard worker and a great team player.
We agree there were huge gaps in front of our back four for liverpool to roam through which was flaminis role to protect. (Trev)
So why would arsene wenger put flamini in this position where he doesn’t cut the mustard..
It is not only embarrasing for flamini, it is also embarrasing for our club to have such a weak aging pllayer in such a key role and simply do nothing about it…and continue to not intend to do anything about it..
It is unfair to flamini and to the arsenal squad if we have any ambitions of simply being better than top 5..
If we don’t have any ambitions as a club, then arsene is completely right to keep on keeping on…
If the OX was no help, then whose fault is that…
Was he injured, was he not executing arsenes instructions or just out of his depth also…
Only one man knows the answes to all these questions.
And what did the manager do about it… Nothing just keep going until we lose the 3 points..
To suggest not many could do that role is complete nonsense and another weak excuse for yet another poor failure agaisnt possibly the weakest liverpool in 10 years…
You could pick a hundred youngsters with big engines and big tickers to play that role and tell them to simply block all comers from entering the middle of our 18 yard zone…and protect the back four
So let me get this straight…
Dallas Cowboys win the NFC East.
Gunners through away two points (not for the first time) and, once again, “supporters” slate the manager who delivered a trophy just 7 months ago.
It’s a mad, mad world.
Sorry, ‘Hols, your Chicago Bears are absolutely shocking…love it. 😛
BMBD
So let’s get this straight,
We have an Experienced Manager who works at a world class club, with world class facilities, who has world class money but refuses to buy a world class DM for a team with an increasing injury toll, hoping to play in the champions league and compete for local titles, who has won one tropy in 9 years, continues to make the same mistakes over and over again with same players over and over again and some fans still think it is just bad luck….and all will change in the new year when all our repeatedly injured players magically return early, even though history suggests they are usually later than expected..and get injured again on their return..and Diaby will be back one day..
But it’s not the managers fault, it’s the fans, the opposition, the refs and other clubs with money..
It’s a mad mad world..
One out of five isn’t bad, Aussie, you’re right that other clubs with greater assets are a major part of the problem. You cannot perform at your best on an uneven playing field.
But our repetitive injury crises are mostly to blame. You can’t hiccup along with a different XI every week, mostly made up of bench-sitters and lesser lights, and expect to become a well-oiled machine regularly winning trophies.
Simple as that really.
Öskar
Memo to K. Gibbs: Remember that day in May when you were on the post and cleared a ball that would have made it 0 Arsenal 3 Hull ??? That’s the reason you position yourself there, especially when you have a one goal lead at the death.
We love the BFG, but one of the things you notice when watching him play is that he has to be the shortest 6′ 6″ player anywhere. More likely to duck down than rise up on balls hit in his direction; curious…
Cheers H!
Nice report, got a few things straight, from where I’m sitting.
Cheers Holic, the usual sense spoken there.
Once the smoke clears and the shouting is over, I think we’ll look back on this as a decent point. I said before the game that this felt like a draw waiting to happen, and I find it hard to get too worked up about a tie at Anfield with our entire first choice midfield missing.
Yes, we were shite for long periods. But we played very well against man Utd and lost. And man Utd have been playing shit for weeks and picking up points. The result is what matters. The defeat to Utd still stings like fuck and I don’t think a single one of us looks back on it with fondness because we played well.
A few words on what went wrong, from my perspective. Main problem was the midfield. Flamini and Ox are as poor a pairing in possession as I’ve seen start a major away game for arsenal in some time. Flamini – I don’t think any more needs saying. He’s not up to it at the top level, and that’s not even his fault. We all knew a DM was required in the summer, we all regretted our failure to address this area. I don’t know whether Arsene “refused” to make a purchase (Aussie, I think you’re well within your rights to bash the manager on this one, but using that word strikes me as spin – I find it incredibly hard to believe that we didn’t try for such a player and I gather we are currently continuing to do so for next month), but the need is glaring, and it was painful to yet again see our base of midfield being pressed hard in an away game and unable to cope – this is now “how to play Arsenal 101”.
Won’t say more than that about Flamini. Feels unfair to bash a player who has always given his all for the Arsenal, and who is exposed by being asked to play in games like these.
Ox, meanwhile, may be half fit but I have some serious reservations about him in this position. He’s going to be a top class player, no doubt, and I love the kid, but he is still a kid. There’s a reason he’s been receiving his education out on the wings, and that’s because he’s still very loose in possession. He’s dynamic, hard working and exciting to watch, but his decision making still isn’t there yet and he’s prone to misplacing simple passes. Against Newcastle, I was worried by the number of times he turned over possession on the halfway line, and you could see that between he and Flamini, neither could be trusted to properly protect the ball. That was fine against the barcodes, but the prospect of the pair starting against better opposition gave me the heeby jeebies.
Against Saints, I watched Ramsey (who, despite a comparatively poor season, has had his period of education and can be trusted with the ball) constantly drop to within five yards of Flamini, take the ball off him and start attacks. He misplaced the odd pass, but never in dangerous areas for us, and he took responsibility for controlling possession. That’s what Flamini needs if he’s going to play. He can’t get that from AOC right now.
That’s not the fault of either player: it’s a consequence of Ramsey, Wilshere, Arteta and Diaby all being out at once. Watching Coquelin (who was decent) trot on only compounded this impression – a couple of months ago his Arsenal career was over. Now we’re forced to rely on him in big away games.
I could go on about problems in defence (per and chambers together doesn’t work for me – for all the “no fourth choice CB” chat I think nacho would have been better to start and looks a more able partner for the BFG just now), but I won’t. Our problems stemmed from a total inability to control the midfield and protect the front of the defence. I’m not ignoring defensive errors, because they were certainly in evidence, but you cannot go to Anfield and give up we much of the ball as we did and expect to win.
Still, despite all of the above, I’m not going to cry over this one. A point is just fine, particularly in light of Utd’s failure to beat Villa, and I still think we’ll comfortably finish top four, assuming the deluge of injuries slows up a little. We can ask whether we should be settling for top four, but – folks – the reality is that we’re in a scrap for champs league this season and there’s not much you can do in December, with a ton of injuries, to suddenly look like a side chasing the title. We are a top four outfit right now, have been all season. Once you recognise that (and, before anyone jumps on me, I’ve said since August we wouldn’t win the league this time out), the whole season starts to make a little more sense.
Get through the Xmas period, start getting our players back in Jan, build form in the back end of the season and look for a title push next year. That’s what we should be looking at. Adding a DM will be a huge part of that – it doesn’t have to be in January (we all know that can be a tough month to find quality), but if it doesn’t happen by next August then you can chuck all the rotten fruit you want, because we really will deserve it.
Oh, and finally I thought Woj had a very good game.
On to QPR.
COYG
Awful game…looked all the world to me like two middle of the table teams laying mid table football…Hope I am wrong about AFC and couldn’t care less about LFC – The media bias towards them is just
ridiculous.
Outstanding, N7. Agree with every word. I used to feel inclined to attempt to contribute work of that quality, but I’ve been worn down and now just wait for you to write it. Good man 🙂 Will you be at the QPR game by any chance? Would love to share a beer.
Well I thought yesterday was absolutely inexcusable.
Apart from being utterly shit for 99mins, we still managed to throw away a lead in extra time to a 10man Liverpool side whose profligacy in front of goal was only matched by our continuous ability to ensure that we roll out the red carpet and leave the door wide open. They missed chance after chance after chance. I know its Christmas, but we are in defensive terms, the gift that keeps on giving.
We should never have gone in level at half time, let alone see ourselves steal a lead. People might think a point in Anfield is no bad result, but if we’re being completely honest with ourselves, we didn’t even deserve a point. We deserved nothing at all from that game.
Cheers, BtM.
Sadly not at the game on Boxing Day. Not getting along at all at the moment due to the demands of very small kids – gave up my season ticket a couple of years back and it’s been one paltry attendance so far this season, which is an all time low. This is the tragic cost of breeding and training up the Arsenal DM of 2024.
Will shout next time I make it along – would imagine it’ll be Feb time, would love to buy you a long overdue drink.
COYG
Whoops – that should have read 2034. Not sure I can have the boy ready by 11, although given current competition for the spot…
I watched the first 30 minutes and went to bed as it was way past midnight here plus I had a feeling it was going to be a draw. I thought it would be either 0-0 or 1-1. Since I wasn’t expecting great fireworks (was watching the invincibles before that and the gap in terms of quality et al put things in perspective). We have too many injuries, round pegs, square cliches, and when they all play we have too many excuses. Still, can’t give up on the team. Who knows, come Jan, and a player (or two) can make all the difference. In 2001/2, we were way down on the table and charged up to win the league. Of course, I’ve been using that story since 2008.
A classic case of fence-sitting there Joe 😉
We maybe didn’t deserve a point but if that gives the professional whingers club stomach-ulcers, then it’s fine by me.
Don’t really understand the mountain of criticism of Mertesacker. Sounds like a witch hunt to me. He is playing on the left side and/or with a different partner nearly every time he looks around.
A draw before the game and i would have said no because i cannot see us winning against the hammers . A loss was unacceptable having seen the way we capitulated against stoke, so it had to be a win and as ever we blew away an unlikely win. It is now 11 points dropped from winning positions and add that to 27 and we would have been a point behind the leaders. Well if not 11, i would even take 7 points and i would have been happy with 3rd which i think was what i expected us to finish before the start of the season. Looks a long way away now.
Per and Flamini should not play for us any longer. No mincing words here, they just should not and no amount of retrospect later in the season( hoping they may have played better), will make me change my words. They just cannot play for my Arsenal. No not about talent or attitude, they just cannot play at this level any longer.
I for one agree to Trev when he says the defensive side of our midfield is a huge let down. Blaming it on coaching is stupid because you do not need to tell a professional player to defend when attacked. There is absolutely no protection for the defenders and it is a disaster waiting to happen everytime what with the defenders we have now.
We should not take corners or set pieces, it is a joke, i do not see any logic in them because irrespective of who takes it, it will not clear the first man.
Sanchez and Ox had their poorest games and they had reasons. Sanchez used to the winter break will find this schedule tough and Ox is just not fit.
You know what hurts the most, Arsenal football club is in danger of being considered among the also rans. We just dont seem to know how to win the big games and smaller teams no longer fear us. As much as the league is more open and any team can beat the other, Arsenal Fc is in danger of losing its aura. Nope not the club, the club will always be legendary, the team is losing its sheen as well as substance.
Great note N7 ,
I think you are spot-on with your analysis. I thought in formation terms getting outnumbered in midfield when you have your best midfield is one thing but when you have a threadbare midfield it’s even more dangerous.
I also wonder ( again) what a great defender like Bouldy is doing allowing the defence to offer that much space to the opposition at offensive corners.Surely we can do better just by basic defensive drilling?
Those who have suggested Nacho as a better bet with the BFG than Chambers are spot on. BFG needs to play on the right side and it would also help if he would head the ball away sometimes. Watch the last twenty minutes against West Brom where he played with Koscielny and they went direct with two central strikers on and you see him winning every ball. Watch him against Stoke or yesterday and he scarcely won a thing . I kept expecting Sterling to outjump him.
While the prospective capture of Tyrone Mings ( age 20, never played centre half) might be a great one for the future I think we would all like to see as well ( and in preference if necessary) somebody experienced. My mate tells me that Inter who have financial problems offered us Vidic on loan. While he may have seen better days I suspect he might have attacked that ball that Skertl headed in a bit more aggressively than BFG did.
Had Mikael Silvestre retired yet…..? ….only joking. But Gallas is a free agent….I’m joking again! Big hard bastard who has a bit of a presence is what we need.
I think those people critising Flamini here are wrong. As soon as the game started yesterday it was clear our tactics were leaving him exposed .
I would be interested to hear if anyone at the match agrees but from the telly it looked like our team were just not compact enough vertically.
I suspect the front line were trying to play aggressively high up the pitch to win back possession but the defence were hanging back deep leaving acres of ground for Flamini and the Ox to cover. As soon as Liverpool got the ball past our attackers this left Coutinho, ( who admittedly had a great first half), with too much space to run with the ball and create chances.
I suspect the problem was Per, being slow, was reluctant to push up too much with Sterling being so speedy.
In the end a lucky draw and, much as I hate to say it, maybe not a great reflection again on Arsene’s tactics against one of our stronger opponents .
Mertesacker is a massively experienced player who is bottling it. Yesterday wasn’t the first time he’s ducked under a ball this season. That’s not a witch hunt, it’s a statement of fact and excusing him with all this stuff about how he’s got a different partner, or playing on the wrong side, doesn’t really wash.
He’s got to do far better.
The other worrying thing about him is that he actually looks to be avoiding the physical side of the game this year. I’m reminded of Frank McLintock a few years back on Sky, saying that if you know you can’t get there you put your head in the other bloke’s face and make it hard for him to get his header in. You might get hurt but they don’t score.
There’s no way I could see Mert doing that these days.
I’d like to see clips of the Mertesacker “ducks” in critical occasions because so far I haven’t seen the evidence. The one closest to picking up Skrtel on the 2nd goal yesterday was Chambers and he was just late enough to let him score the goal. Having watched the game it seemed to me the weak link in our defense was Chambers which is why I’m mystified by all the talk about Mertesacker.
No idea about players ducking, but it’s a zonal marking system. Watch where everyone starts out – the goal is scored from Monreal’s zone. He gets drawn into the six yard box by Sakho’s run, Chambers sees the danger at the last minute and leaves his zone to try to block off Skrtel, but the damage is done.
I say all of the above as someone who would start Nacho over Chambers at CB, but if we must work out individuals at fault then technically it’s monreal. What he’s supposed to do against Skrtel, with the latter having a run up on him, I don’t know, but thats the joy of a zonal system.
Would also add that I actually think our marking system generally works reasonably well (statistically I’m not sure we let in an abnormal number of goals from corners, though maybe someone can supply evidence to the contrary), but when it does fail it looks bad and it’s always, always highlighted.
N7 @ 53: Also I think the zonal marking works best when there is an “attacker” in defense who is following the ball freely to attempt a first level of clearance. I think Giroud does a phenomenal job in that role and with him we look much more resilient in set-pieces just as we did for much of the last season. Eel beck needs to develop this side of his game more where he can leverage his height and strength more in both boxes.
@54: Meant “Welbeck”, shut up Apple auto-correct… 🙂
N7: Fully agree with your analysis of the source of the defensive vulnerabilities being at the base of the midfield. This has been our main problem area for many years now, and only on those occasions when both Arteta and Rambo are fully fit and playing their absolute best collectively we look to have a MF base of a top team. That alignment of good fortune is getting rarer especially with Arteta getting to an age where the tireless passing and patrolling demanded of his role would leave him more and more injury prone.
Having watched the goal many more times now (but without benefit of slow motion or additional angles) I am still not sure why nobody is close to Skrtel. In the only view I have seen it is for sure that Monreal never gets close. Mertesacker appears to be backing out of the way. Chambers gives a last minute chase but doesn’t get there in time. On the near post, Gibbs is retreating toward the line but doesn’t make it there in time having been marking Jordan Henderson who was stationed as if for a near post header. More than one defender seems to be at fault. Why???
Because we can’t defend? (and have been talking about it for ages)
There’s a set of photos on The Mail Online (I know…) that show how bad Mertesacker’s fear of getting a bit of a clump was yesterday. You can’t have a centre back who doesn’t want to get hurt.
sad about the tragedy in glasgow. hoping no holics were in the injured list. paging dr. feelgood.
Horrible scenes. I was alerted to it by Dr Feelgood who was not involved.
thanks, bath. glad to know.
“We maybe didn’t deserve a point but if that gives the professional whingers club stomach-ulcers, then it’s fine by me.” 🙂
I hear bleating that BPL attendance figures are in terminal decline. If they keep declining at this rate there’ll be nowhere for anyone to sit. 🙂
http://rowzfootball.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/european-football-attendance-trends-comparing-the-big-5-premier-league-bundesliga/
Next game Dr Z?
Don’t forget, Arsene biography comp open until midnight.
Stoke, January BtM – Holic will be spreading his birthday vouchers! 😉
Or spending even!
Scruz,
pretty horrific stuff. Thankfully I was east of the M8 today.
Thanks for your concern.
cheers, z. glad to know you’re ok. i’m checking with my cousins there, too, but most of them are in paisley and try to avoid the glagow city center.
It’s a well known fact Per barely clears the grass when jumping, he relies on his height for an advantage. In any case he was marking more to the centre than where Skertl was lurking some way out. OG is the player who would have been marking Skertl, if he hadn’t been subbed ten minutes earlier. And as our best defender from set pieces he would likely have prevented the goal (as indeed Gibbs would have if he’d been awake). I know OG’s match fitness is still not there completely, but to withdraw him with so little time to go knowing we would be under desperate Poo offensive pressure strikes me as a v poor AW decision.
Öskar
Agree that was a poor decision Oskar though AW suggested there was an extenuating circumstance that HFB had been ill all night the night before.
Tough, bath, but he’d played 80+ minutes and another 15 wouldn’t have killed him surely? With two points in the balance defence was the priority, imo.
I agree his replacement, Le Coq, was needed, but Danny was the obvious sacrifice for me. He was poor in both attack and defence.
Öskar
Should we think about building a bigger stadium BtM? (*62)
Öskar
I just checked the availability for seats for the Hull tie. Televised at 5.30pm on a Sunday evening and there is bugger all left. Probably less than 100 seats in the ground. So on occasions a bigger ground might help. The trouble is as soon as the opposition score even more people will leave early
Why does Per get the luxury of excuses for poor performances when he is not partnered with a certain player..
How would he negotiate his next contract based on that ridiculous logic.
I want 70k per week, but only if partnered with Kos, if not you can have me for 10k a week, cause I am slow and can’t jump, even though I am 7 foot tall..
Per ducking out of the way or refusing to jump is not a new phenomenon….
Cynic has it right above…. per is bottling it big time..
The last few matches show how much Kos has made him look half decent…
Vinay also has it right above…
Both Per and flamini are not up to the level required if we are a club with any serious ambitions going forward…
Those who suggest they haven’t noticed Per ducking out of the way, will not have to go too far back to find some replay evidence…
A big part of why Flamini got it so wrong against Poo was he was also often found so deep within our defensive line, he became a 5th and unnecessary defender..
He was not sitting in front of the back four, he was standing next to them…
Hence why we had no cover at all or no blocking defending..
You watch any decent defensive side, the one or two DM players just stay out front of the back four so there is no space or room for pulling players out of position..
That is not santi or OX’s fault…
Like our corners, it looks like another area wenger does not believe is important enough to practice..
If we do practice defending, then it doesn’t work..
Both are in excusable..
Oskar,
Anticipating the very substantial demand for seats at PL games, Arsenal sought to build the Emirates at higher capacity than current (80k+, I believe). Because of crowd management and safety concerns, London planners (correctly, I think), limited the capacity at 60k+.
Since 1990, average BPL attendance has SOARED by a MASSIVE 80%. Attendance at most grounds is > 90% capacity (and 100% could be achieved easily, tomorrow, by increasing the allocation to visiting fans. It’s difficult to obtain ‘away’ tickets. I’ve stopped trying). All of this is despite an ever-increasing frequency of live telecasts (MUCH beyond the 1990 baseline), with the consequent associated increase in home viewership. In short, the BPL is a money machine now and with population growth forecasts in developing markets, will be so increasingly for many years to come.
With demand and supply in harmony on average; AND with demand exceeding supply at Arsenal, Man U, Chelski etc the scene is set perfectly for well managed clubs to do what good businesses do i.e. extract the maximum revenue for the high value (by definition) product they bring to market. Put simply, to sell tickets at the highest prices the London entertainment scene (our primary competitor for consumer choice) will sustain.
Arsenal, beseeched by its fans “To spend some f*cking money” and “Win summit’ for f*cks sake” has done this better than any and has positioned the club perfectly for success through the ability to buy players of the calibre of Ozil, Sanchez, Koscielny et al. And this is despite performing inadequately on elevating recognition of the Arsenal brand in global markets.
I think that the announcement of the League’s permanent death spiral and the imagined spectre of Arsenal scoring the winning CL league goal in an empty stadium may be just the teeniest, weeniest, squeeniest bit premature. I hope to keep watching for the next thirty years. Hang around and I’ll let you know the outcome.
Stoke it is, Dr Z if Holic is dispensing good cheer 🙂
Then up to Fife for two weeks of band practice and some lower priced seats for sensational soccer of a Dark Blue hue at Dens Park. Maybe even Celtic in the Cup? I’m never too proud or easily insulted to pay a lower price for a great day out. There’s wonderful value out there. You just need to know where to look and get over yourself.
Only 76 drinks after an important and dramatic match?!
Seems a lot of people give up criticising this team, because they give up loving this team and manager.
Plenty of additional comment in the previous drinks round, abc, posted during and subsequent to the game.
Hang around for 30 years, BtM? Hmmmm. That’ll put me past the ton mate! Maybe I’ll visit you in spirit. 😉
My *71 was of course written with tongue in cheek, but I thank you for the detailed explanation which does explain a lot.
Öskar
Hellooooo there cba!
I’ve just found your Christmas greeting in the last round and thank you for it mate. And in return here’s a lovely letter from Father Jack, which I’m sure you know, to celebrate the gift-giving orgy about to be unleashed on the world… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJoXCwkPVi8
Öskar
Its all been said so many times before abc…
The criticisms are the same and the excuses for failure are the Same..
The players look like they no longer believe in the manager or give a shit except for alexis and Santi…
I think most arsenal fans are completely over the manager…
Not the team or the club…the fans apathy is now understandable as expectations have been lowered to such an extent that we are somehow lucky to be midtable…
I expect nothing will change now until the manager changes….
Simple as that..
I must not be part of “most arsenal fans”, then, Aussie.
Me either Aussie…..
Congratulations scruz and Tim…
Hope your enjoying the show
Otd@68:
OG is the player who would have been marking Skertl, if he hadn’t been subbed ten minutes earlier. And as our best defender from set pieces he would likely have prevented the goal.
Says something if our best defender in those situations is our striker — and not something very good.
Indeed scruz and Tim. A week after a Sun poll showed Arsene had 78% backing from the supporters. 🙁
Who speaks for ‘most Arsenal fans’?
I’m proud not to be a member of the ‘most Arsenal fans’ that you are talking about, Aussie. Thanks much!
Holic @ 85 (Now there’s a blog post title for the future!) – I think that poll result is part of the problem. For some reason there’s a reluctance on the part of the board and the fans to even consider a change, and there’s a real feeling of a club that is just going through the motions, on nd off the pitch.
Love him or hate him, Arsene Wenger is a problem for the club because it is stuck firmly in a rut and hasn’t pogressed on the pitch for ten years, for whatever reason.
There are little changes to things like the medical staff or the academy coaching, but that’s a bit like fixing a tap washer when the roof is leaking.
For the good of the club the manager has to go and go completely, and you don’t have to hate him to think that. It’s all a bit stale and only a root change will solve our problems on the pitch as changing personnel on it hasn’t improved matters, nor in the more minor roles off the field.
Go to be done, no matter where the team finishes in May, or it will be more of the same until he finally does go. A stale team and a fractured fan base, with the fractures getting wider. A sad state of affairs but really I think a lot of people could see it coming years ago.
It just feels like we don’t want to put the family dog down because he’s been with us for years, even though he’s blind, deaf, got diabetes and can’t walk much any more. It’s Old Shep time….
@ 80 “Most Arsenal fans” – I assume the very vocal minority, who I’m sure love the moniker ‘Most Arsenal fans’? The same bunch who hold up banners seeking the manager’s departure during important away games? To you and them, please include me OUT of the generalisation “most” and enjoy this pic from Ladyarse.
http://ladyarse.co.uk/2014/12/yougov-survey-shows-majority-want-arsene-wenger-stay/?utm_campaign=news
Oskar, might have been tongue in cheek (most of mine are so I’m happy to have you join me) but with the prophets (oops, almost a Freudian ‘profits’ there) of gloom forecasting empty stadia if they personally choose not to pay up and turn up, it’s illuminating to look beyond the rhetoric. Despite the empty stadia forecasts, the madmen at Tottenham. Chelsea, Liverpool, Everton are all considering expansion of their, soon to be, soundless vacuums.
The ton? It’s the new eighty mate. What’s not to enjoy? I’ll be there with you.
Cynic, thank you for a perfectly reasoned post that doesn’t quote ‘facts’, doesn’t tell me what ‘we all know’, and doesn’t resort to abuse.
Arsene will depart at some point, and at that point I’ll get firmly behind the poor soul tasked with building on his legacy.
If this season we finish fourth or lower, and we don’t pick up any silver, then we will have regressed and it will be time for change. To not allow one of the two greatest managers we have had the opportunity to progress would be a huge mistake for me.
@Aussie
Daft, dummy-spitting, deliberately provocative post.
It’s really tiresome living in a world where the manager’s name can be sung around the stadium, newspaper polls can show he still has the support of a large majority of the fans, and yet a few days later – after a tough away draw – people can mouth off about how he’s lost the players (a charge for which there is no real evidence, unless you feel that the majority of the managers in the league have also lost the dressing room), and – once again – that “most” fans want him gone.
Similarly daft is the suggestion that a relatively quiet bar 48 hours before Christmas Day must mean the manager has lost the support of the fans.
Why on earth it isn’t enough for people to just say “I want him gone” (a la Cynic – a totally fair enough post there) is beyond me. This pathological need to create a little fantasy land where everyone agrees with you and those who disagree are outliers is deeply childish, and sadly pretty common online these days.
Regardless of your views on Arsene Wenger, I wish you a Merry Christmas. This really isn’t the time of year to be engaging in massive online dust ups, so I hope that all of you have a great holiday and that we can all be back in here on Friday night celebrating a win together.
COYG
Stands and Aplauds CYNIC @87…
Top post that..
N7- It seems very clear if I raise the same topic as Cynic and provide some thoughts/ facts/ reasons why it is past time for arsene to go, it is provocative and daft, but Cynic raises the same stuff That is just fine and dandy ?
There have been many of us on here previously saying we want wenger gone and for many varied reasons and facts why, you have just chosen to not listen…or bother to listen
Its old shep time……and has been for sometime…
I am very happy to be counted out of “most Arsenal fans” @80.
Cynic @ 87, “Love him or hate him, Arsene Wenger is a problem for the club because it is stuck firmly in a rut and hasn’t pogressed on the pitch for ten years, for whatever reason.” is somewhat disingenuous.
The reason for our ‘failure to progress’ for ten years is clearly the stadium move and its associated costs.
The widespread failure to recognise the remarkable achievement of keeping this club in the top 4 throughout that period and producing several near-miss challenges is extraordinarily naive. The failure also to recognise the impact of injuries on our competitiveness this season is wilful misinterpretation of the circumstances notwithstanding the justifiable criticism of the failure to purchase defensive cover in the summer.
People seem to be bored with this ‘rut’, assuming that there is an Arsenal birthright of winning the Premiership and UCL trophies that is being denied and that any new manager can guarantee an improvement in that performance which is simply taken for granted. Even the recent performances of Liverpool and Manure have failed to register with these people that there is no guarantee of that scorned achievement. Leeds and Newcastle are examples of clubs that sacked managers years ago for failing to do better than fourth.
I expect Arsene Wenger to see out the remainder of this contract and to take this team forward building a squad that is strong and capable of competing at the top level. Sadly I also expect Arsene’s successor to struggle to emulate his success.
Furthermore I expect Arsene’s longstanding (out and proud) detractors to rally behind their long-awaited messiah when he toils to achieve that ‘piece of piss’ top 4 ‘in a rut’ finish and give that man the support he deserves in emulating and exceeding a monumental achievement. In truth that was irony, I don’t expect them to give him as much as half a season.
@Aussie
I can’t be any more clear than I have been about the aspects of your post which I thought were daft. You can choose to ignore or take it on board. Entirely your call.
As I said above, Merry Xmas to you.
Applause for bath. Great post.
Well said cynic.i don’t think things are going to change until arsene is gone either.no balls half of that team.the sun poll give me strength that’s a rag.comfort zone,cruising,said it at the start of the season we will win sweet FA with mert and monreal in our squad.what did we need at the start of the season DM commanding CH, January is on the way here comes another playmaker with brittle bones.backed him thru thick and thin can’t/won’t do it anymore.any wonder there’s 90 posts in here lately after a big game simple the like of aussie get shouted down for having a difference of opinion bullshit I used to love this place for the excellent posts from all the usual suspects now it’s sing from the same hymn sheet or get lost which is a shame,I know the rules this post proberbly stay up to long but hey ho.happy Xmas to u all.im not saying sack him mid season but does anyone really believe even if we don’t get the CL he will get sacked?
I don’t believe that Arsene will be sacked because this Board comprises individuals with enough common sense to recognise the scale of his achievements, his ability to deliver future success and the debt the club owe him to allow him to choose the timing of his own departure. This does not mean that the Board cannot be criticised for lots of other things.
On the other hand if Arsene feels that he has failed to achieve his own minimal targets as a result of his own failings then I believe that he would offer his resignation.
I would be astonished if the Board sacked Arsene. It would suggest that they had entered the irresponsible fantasy world occupied by certain others.
Not a new subject but today’s Telegraph contains some interesting news on developments in the injury analysis by the club
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11308606/Revealed-The-truth-behind-Arsenals-terrible-injury-record-and-how-your-club-shapes-up.html
Great post Gar.
You do have to wonder if the 78% support for wenger was a typo by the Sun and should have read 78 loyal arsenal fans.
Agree AW wont be sacked or leave soon, hence why the fans general apethy is so ho hum….another few seasons yet of mediocrity…
Bath – Arsenes minimal targets…… god help us all then.
His measure of success these days has lowered so far that he now measures sideways passing in your own half as an EPL record, even when we lose by five goals…
Trust me his minimal standards of success will never be failed…
Shoots
Don’t think for a second bath that I don’t understand his achievements I do,they have been excellent top 4 under them financial constraints is no mean feat.the stadium the money he’s made us the teams he’s built I just think it’s time to kick on to the next level and compete for titles not make up the numbers.hes going to take some replacing when/if he does go and it will be his choice as the board are on cruise control where everything is hunky dory as long as they keep getting the funds in.irresponsible fantasy world I think not old chum.be the best we can be?is it asking to much can arsene get us there with the gung ho approach we’ve seen this season?to many fancy dans in my opioion want to do the fancy bits don’t want to mix it when the going gets tough it’s a character trait we need some nasty cu@ts take no prisoners the only player I see like that is flamini.
Great article TTG- says it all really….
Arsenal fans back the boss = shouting down opposing views.
Arsenal fans vote in support of the boss = poll must be wrong.
Silence = supporter apathy. Arsene must go.
Arsenal win a trophy = it’s not a real trophy.
Arsenal spend some money = it’s because they were forced to.
Ho ho ho, everyone. Can’t wait until the new manager comes in and everyone suddenly becomes reasonable.
COYG
There have been some heated debates on here for some time about Wenger. I come to this board to debate it because , taking a lead from the Guvnor, we see reasoned and generally non- abusive debate unlike the foul- mouthed garbage most boards generate.
Wenger has a great deal of loyalty on this board because generally most posters here take a long – term view based on the fact that they remember Arsenal before Wenger. We used to finish in the top 4 about once in every four seasons whereas since he came we have finished in the top four EVERY season he has managed us.That puts into context the talk of a fourth place trophy!
I have a table on my laptop which I will try to dredge up later which shows how amazing his record in terms of pound spent per point is. I can state very confidently that no manager in world football could have led us through the move to the Emirates without breaking stride given the financial constraints. No other manager would have had the combination of loyalty to the club that he showed knowing that his CV would bear the scars of that period- because it was right for the club. Mourinho, Ancellotti and all would not have endured that time out of contention because they operate at the to pend with mega- expensive squads and no constraints.
The clamour for a new manager is understandable. People get tired with the same old faces but Wenger despite many faults which I have referred to on here many times is a man who continues to drive this club forward . Klopp- bottom of the Bundesliga, Giardiola- ever struggled at a non- elite club? Simeone, not proven outside La Liga and not my idea of an Arsenal manager.
We see Laudrup,,Martinez and Koemann put forward as solutions but then they fall out of favour and suddenly look like last year’s model. I still think Wenger deserves the opportunity to ride this out and to add to his remarkable record. One day we will realise what this man has done for the club- and continues to do.
Beware a change for the sake of it. I predict that it will almost certainly lead to this club with all it’s current imperfections falling from its current position to becoming a side where fourth place makes it a notable season
Groundhog Day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I don’t normally publish Untold Arsenal stuff but this contains the table I referred to earlier
http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/38687?
It might make you think
Bath – post in the last bar at ninety-three.
Post of the year.
Belated festive greetings all.
When all is said and done. we are not Middlesex.
And for this , let us be truely grateful.