OutGunned And It Was Self-Inflicted
Dec 6th, 2014 by 'holic
Arsenal surrendered the first-half of this match tamely to, let’s be honest, a Stoke team who played much better than us because they were allowed to. There might be some explanation for going behind in the fact that we had a very makeshift back four out there, with Hector Bellerin coming in at right-back and Calum Chambers switching to centre-back in place of Laurent Koscielny. However they were left cruelly exposed by those ahead of them. The midfield was virtually non existent and we couldn’t ease the pressure by holding the ball up front.
The problems started in the opening minute when a comedy of errors provided Crouch with an opportunity to score from close range. No names, no pack drill, it was a goal that collectively we could have defended better. Once again we were reliant on Alexis for any injection of pace or creativity but the shrinking violets around him offered him no more support than they offered the defence. The best opportunity fell to Olivier Giroud from a Hector Bellerin cross but the striker headed wide.
The second goal summed up the collective ‘couldn’t give a monkeys’ attitude. Walters was allowed to cross unhindered from our left flank and Bojan arrived unmarked to apply the clinical finish. Just before the break it was three, Crouch getting his head to a corner to set up Walters in space in the box who found the roof of the net.
It was about as depressing a forty-five minutes of football as we have seen this season, which is quite something given we haven’t yet played to the sum of our parts. I prepared a tweet suggesting the club should consider refunding the poor traveling souls then thought better of sending it, but then a second-half that hinted at days of old. Days when we would commit players forward in attack when behind, not when winning by a single goal.
Danny Welbeck was brought on at half-time although perhaps Bellerin will wonder why he was the player to go off. Alexis, who else, set off on one amazing mazy dribble and in truth might have been more clinical when his effort hit the post, but it was a moment that lifted all around him and at last Arsenal were winning challenges and playing with a sense of purpose. Stoke’s forays forward were increasingly rare but they thought they had a fourth from Bojan, only for the assistant referee to raise his flag for an offside decision against Diouf.
Shortly afterwards Arsenal had a goal back, though in truth after watching the replays I’m not sure Flamini was actually tripped for the penalty award. Santi Cazorla found the net and it was game on again. Three minutes later Alexis delivered a corner to Aaron Ramsey who applied a superb finish. A goal at the Britannia for him was special and hope flickered briefly that we could actually salvage something from the ruins of the opening 45 minutes.
That hope all but evaporated with the award of a second yellow to Calum Chambers, subject of two first-half assaults by Crouch, unpunished until his wandering elbow found Per Mertesacker’s face in the second-half. Twitter readers will have also seen Charlie Adams chokehold on Alexis. I will not comment more on the referee today. We beat ourselves. The ten men gave it a valiant go in the closing minutes but Stoke held on.
For Arsenal this was the proverbial game of two halves. The first brings uncomfortable questions to the forefront of the mind again. The second also has one wondering where all that desire had been earlier. Again I understand there was Arsenal on Arsenal action at the match. It is so sad to hear of it. I can understand the disrespect for the opposition, but for Gooners to not show civility to and respect for each other is frankly poor.
All in all a day I wish we could start again.
177 Responses to “OutGunned And It Was Self-Inflicted”
1st?
Aim High!
Special drinks for the Tractor Boys and, ahem, Alan Pardew.
Can’t comment on the game, still too disappointed, but how much more will Wenger run Sanchez into the ground?
BMBD
Trophy 🙂
Nice summary maestro. Not seen the game myself yet. I was very disappointed when I saw the HT score and guessed at something like you describe. To pull it back to 3-2 at FT assuaged that disappointment a tad.
In summary, I did think the Britannia at the end of this current run of games (where we had in truth been unconvincing but kept three clean sheets) was perhaps a bridge too far and when I heard the team and the twat who was to be the ref I was sure we were in trouble.
The critical question is whether we can improve ourselves through the return of the wounded and two judicious purchases before our rivals who have been equally erratic do.
Did the tossers with the banner show up today, or do they only sing when we’re winning?
Indeed bath. Can we be less poor than the others 🙁
Apparently Arsene and the players got abuse chanted at them as they boarded their chartered train at Stoke, so probably.
There really is no one with a clue in midfield at the moment who can play a shred of defense. Flamer and Arteta are past their sell by dates.
At the back Per is really disappointing this year…no excuses over pairings, or depth…he should be taking charge.
Bath knows.
You are quite right to point out how sad and distasteful it is to see Arsenal fans turning on each other. I see it happening regularly at home games and even saw a fairly nasty argument on the train home from St. Pancras after the United game.
Even more sadly I think it is likely to go on. Anyone who expects Wenger to splash the cash in January, even if it was possible to pick up real quality( which is debatable) reckons without his obdurate streak ( I avoided saying stubborn) which has served us so well ( mainly) in the past. Arsene doesn’t twist in the wind and he is more likely not to buy anybody than to panic buy. There might be consternation in the Boardroom about that but it’s the way he operates. He will look to the recovery of Debuchy and Ozil, the return of Walcott and talk up the ‘ quality’ of his team.
In part of course he is right. We have got a good team but the squad isn’t good enough to compete with Chelsea and the big hole in midfield, where our competing talents are a fading Arteta and a faded Flamini underline the folly of the last window.
That we have produced so many iffy performances and yet have hardly used Rosicky, Campbell or Podolski is irritating in the extreme to us- just imagine how they feel! Should Alexis keel over after reaching the red zone and be out for some time it will be hard to contain the fury of the fans and with good reason. He is indeed running on fumes as Dr F said and we are really not rotating anything like intelligently or effectively enough to protect our most precious resources and protect vulnerable ones like Chambers. I don’t believe there was any intention to play him as much as he has been played this season but we have little alternative, having failed to replace Vermaelen .
If Tyrone Mings is the defensive addition we make- a lad without Premiership experience, a left back who might make a centre half I might even find myself getting tetchy. The team is crying out for experience and much more a Vlaar , Reid or N’koulou than a raw youngster.
Similarly I hope we avoid the Ledesma option ( Kallstrom with knobs on) and try to get at least Kramer or Bender to add the quality at DM that is so clearly missing. But as I said before it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if Arsene fails ‘ to find anybody’ to echo his words from the AGM
Thanks for that, Holic! Another helping of the balanced, measured, thoughtful fare I have the pleasure of consuming here in the bar.
So engrossed in Christmas tree decoration with my beautiful granddaughter was I that I completely forgot about the game and didn’t join until 55 minutes. (Sounds like that wasn’t such a bad thing). I’t was all Arsenal by then and thus the scoreline was very puzzling. Almost as puzzling as the double yellow, and the absence of a straight red for a near neck-break on Alexis.
Great pity that Alexis, having done all the hard work, then hit the post as the goal gaped 🙁 That would have been a very good time to score.
Interested in your comments “…..with Hector Bellerin coming in at RB and Chambers switching to CB in place of Koscielny. However they were left cruelly exposed by those ahead of them……
Amazing! The internet is full of bell ends pronouncing the death of Chambers (at 19) as a CB. I assume on the basis of 45 minutes of play? “Never was, never will be kind of rot.” Pretty sad but I’ve ceased to be even mildly surprised.
I’ll pass on the gloating on MoTD and watch the game on A-player I think. Better times ahead. Take three international defenders out of any squad and they’ll struggle. The lack of collective desire you describe in the first half? Completely unacceptable.
The sentence ‘the non existent midfield failed to offer any protection to the defence’ will soon be replacing Victoria Concordia Crescit as the club motto.
It’s been an all too regular thing for several years now. So, I am not too hopeful the boss will finally realise that in the PL, tall, mobile defensively disciplined midfielders are still handy to have on the books, especially away from home at shit holes like Stoke, and with inept weak refs.
Not good enough. I suppose the apologists will find their excuses again, but the sad truth is that team is NOT worthy of challenging for the EPL title. That’s all that needs to be said really: I could go into why, but there is no point.
Thundertinygooner, I thought Kim Kallstrom was excellent in the few games I saw him play. Probably could have done with someone like him today.
I reckon has to take responsibility for today as he didn’t buy adequate defensive cover this window. If he didn’t want to buy a CB he should at least bought a DM. Arsenal have always been shaky defensively (Post Bould-Keown) but our super attack covered it up.
Unfortunately the attack is stale. I think the problem is the CROSSING. Not the quality of it but the fact we do it at all. We surrender possession by crossing the ball when he have no ideas. I used to love us keeping possession at the oppo’s box and watch us use smart football to open them up. Nowadays we just cross and hardly ever score from it. WE WERE NEVER A CROSSING TEAM.
Another reason is believe it or not Sanchez, I watch him prance around but sometimes he over elaborates and loses the ball in key positions when he could have passed it. I don’t think he has learnt the Arsenal way yet despite his excellent scoring. Our whole team is disrupted and I think we need to work on our group attack and movement.
We need some serious recruits in January but I think I know wenger now, he probably won’t sign anyone and say tht Chamber is our midfield option.
Also, why can’t Rosicky get a game??? Seriously, and Campbell has look great whenever I’ve seen him on, whats the deal?? Poldolski not so much but even so come on!
No one says anything about Ramseys shit form but everyone slags off Ozil for not getting assists.
Arsenal got 99 problems but a bendtner aint one.
Hi folks. Thank you H, for a reasoned approach to your post.
There really isn’t anything new we’ve learned from this episode. We lack proper cover in defence, need proper cover for the defence we don’t have and have a team of players who it seems are only interested in their wages. For the people going overboard and calling for everybody to be sacked/resign, the result has given them fresh ammo. Shame on you.
An equal shame shout goes out to all Gooners participating in this infernal ‘CIVIL WAR’. What an ignominious spectacle we must be making of ourselves to all onlookers.
I believe AW can and will turn it around real soon. We have had cause to hope so in the past few games and with the returning personnel, it can only get better. We WILL make the top four again.
COYG
Billybee
Thankyou for your helpful comment very much not in the spirit of this board. Any ideas yourself?
I take no solace from a defeat against Stoke, but looked at from a wider context of recent form, at least we’ve put aside our frustrating habit of far too many draws. I’m reconciled to the odd defeat (it’s an uncommonly competitive league this season irrespective of our own faults), as long as it’s set alongside plenty more wins. For the last 3 games, I’d rather have 2 wins and a defeat (6 points), over 3 draws (3 points) or even a win and 2 draws (5 points).
As for today’s performance itself. We can all write ‘hindsight’ narratives after the event, but the two things that occurred to me BEFORE the match, were: a) not that it necessarily had any effect on the final score, but I was amazed that Welbeck didn’t start this game ahead of the Ox. You need all the physicality you can get against Stoke, and Welbeck would have provided that offensively and defensively. I also feel the Ox looks like he’s starting to run out of a bit of steam/form in his last couple of games, and could do with a rest. b) If our recent run of wins was likely to induce any complacency in Wenger about player recruitment, the late unavailability of Kos and Nacho alongside the fact that the only 2 deep-lying midfielders in the whole squad we’re currently able to select are Flamini and Ramsey, means that Wenger must know how crucial further acquisitions in January are (we still only have 2 specialist CBs in our squad – I don’t count Hayden and Ajayi).
Thanks Holic. I missed the whole game as I was working so no comment on the performance. I have waited till I got im to read your thoughts and have avoided all other match reports as they are usually insufferable after we lose.
I am disappointed with the result. I have nothing else to say about today.
More genarally, I do wonder how many fans know what ‘Victoria Concordia Crescit’ means? And of those who can translate it literally how many of them know what it MEANS? The irony given the state of some of our current support is not lost on us all.
It is a standard we set for ourselves. Regardless of results or anything else. It used to be what set us apart. It gave rise to my pride in the club and sheer belief in the old phrase ‘class is permanent’ and it epitomised to me everything that we were that no other club was. It applied to my whole life as well and was something I lived by- I had it tattooed across my back. Like all true believers I believed i was right and the object of my love truly was nobler, more valuable and inherently better than all the rest. But things are changing.
It is not a cause to sound off and perpetuate a negative cycle when we fail to live up to it. But it is sad. And we only let ourselves down.
For all that, I do still believe. And I still live every day with ‘Victoria Concordia Crescit’ in mind. And no matter what happens I always will. It is who I am.
This bar and the people in it- who represent to me everything that I believe in- are truly inspirational. I couldn’t give two figs about all the moaning monikers that appear unbidden and start stinking the place out, like a fart no-one is claiming, to have a whinge after the bad results- tells me about them, not about Arsenal. But the rest of you are my social proof that I am not insane and that maybe, just maybe, I am bloody well right. I am not on twitter and have no (true) Arsenal mates who live close by so, for me, since I moved out of London eight years ago, the Arsenal supporting world is really you lot.
I have said many times ‘I am not a religious man but I believe in Arsenal.’ I guess in that analogy Holic is a priest and we are a congregation of sorts. And sometimes I see things written that make such profound sense to me it seems like the author must be a prophet. Many of you are responsible for these moments. So thankyou all. Truly and sincerely.
We will keep singing from the same hymn sheet, or at least the same hymn book, and even if we never win another match it will still be worth every agonising second. Keep the faith. And good wishes to all Gooners everywhere.
Victoria Concordia Crescit.
Cheers if you read that. It took a while to marshal my thoughts and write them down. But i would like to add-
Stoke are smelly!
I just don’t see where wenger is taking this club to.
grossly mismanagement of the club. not only did we not replace verminator, we then let the jenks go own loan to west ham. then we let the coq go out to charlton who has been their mom over the last few games. Long term they are not the answer but they might have put in a bit more of a back bone of a performance then the spineless shit we saw today.
wenger admitted he didn’t stand up at the game as was concerned about the abuse. What sort of cowardly attitude does that put out to the team.
would fergie ever have done that , let alone admit.
shocking stuff
Not really a night to seek refuge here, apparently.
A quick word of praise for regulars and newcomers alike, that already have but also those who later will, post comments here that, although perhaps filled with emotion and disappointment, carries some dignity and respect. This was a proper bad night. We’ve had them before, we’ll have them again. Part of what makes the good nights good are the bad nights as a contrast. Not saying I want this many of them. Not saying I ever want us to lose, especially not to Stoke, and I’m bleeding red tonight, but seriously – I’d love for ‘Holics place to continue to be a place that unites Arsenal fans and not a place for spewing what can only be called pathetic shit. Think whatever you want about the manager, the team, the other supporters of your club, but for fucks sake, please, be civil.
Tg: He’s taking us to Istanbul on Tuesday if you check the fixture list.
Top post there GSD. A pleasure to read such heartfelt thoughts.
I’m with bath. Great post GSD.
Nice stuff GSD
Thankyou for the kind ones, gents.
Much appreciated from the trio above.
Drinks on the bar. We could do with ’em…
GSD with an absolutely superb post.
The now deleted individual knocking TTG with the precise opposite.
Victoria Concordia Crescit
COYG
Good post there yourself, Toby.
I just don’t see where wenger is taking this club to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwRmivbNgQk
GSD – What a great post. Blimey….you nailed it:
” Like all true believers I believed i was right and the object of my love truly was nobler, more valuable and inherently better than all the rest”
We are the Arsenal….
Indeed Baff, a very good post from Toby. There is no light without dark. Even if we do appear to have fallen down a well…
Cheers N7.
I had no idea that everyone felt as strongly about this as me but i guess from the encouraging messages that this is an issue we all agree wholeheartedly on- Stoke really are smelly!
Well said GSD.
That was a pretty miserable trip in fairness. But the WOBedwetters contrived to make it so much worse than it had to be.
Having followed this club for some decades more than most of the over-entitled gobshites who were swinging punches at other Arsenal supporters in the aftermath of the game today, I can safely say that it is quite possible to be neither “Oengar Aaht” or “Wenger In”.
Because it is entirely possible to be neither, you know, and just be a bit pissed off that our first half was so woeful we couldn’t drag it back.
And as for the prize wankers calling out the manager and the team on the platform at the station afterwards, you are beyond embarrassing.
If a certain player had still been around today, his advice to “Remember who you are and who you represent” should have had a timely reprise. I’m fairly sure he would have been utterly disgusted at the lot of you.
Cracking post snowy, thank you. Sorry you had to witness some of our support making us a laughing stock.
Nice work Toby and GSD too.
Usual rules after a bad one please. Thank you all.
Cheers Guvnor. And thanks for a measured post match report. Never easy to keep a sense of perspective when all* around are high on emotion and Special Brew … :-/
* By “all” I obviously mean social media Bedwetters… 😉
I sincerely hope the civility can be extended equally between the arsenal fans who want to maintain the status quo or those asking for change.
I am not sure who is the most aggreesive or more abusive of the current arsenal fanbase….Those agitating for change or those who fear change.
I see poor behaviour and non civility outside and on here from both sides of the fanbase.
An excuse for poor behaviour is just an excuse for poor behaviour, it is still poor behaviour..
I am not sure which is more embarrasing for the club, 3 nil down to stoke at half time, a junior backline, no DM, a mangaer who pushes another manager, or the banner wavers or those who choose to leave matches early…
All have their excuses or reasons for doing so..
I am not sure which is sadder, the constant excuses for failure or the promises of success in the next 3 years.
One thing I am sure about, is this team, this squad and our inconsistencies do not work now and will not work in the future..
Arsene has had ample time and been fairly treated to this point by both the club and the fans alike..
The civil in fighting between the fans is a clear indication that something is not right and I do not believe it is the fans of any side of the arguments that are wrong.
The leadership of the club must come into serious examination if we are to class ourselves as a serious club with serious top level expectations…
The recent wins against dortmund etc with clean sheets showed how united and togeather the fanbase are and can be…
Own fans throwing punches at each other after the game, now that’s totally out fucking order. Shame on you who represent the club and behave in such an appalling manner! Yes the first half performance was abysmal in many ways but to go into physical abuse with your so called brother, now that’s disgusting to say the least, not the result it doesn’t matter now. Game was lost have a moan and deal with it! Yes I will express my view throw in my two pence piece but come on. I’m not into violence and I felt for the girl who was up there. Not a nice place to be in for sure!
Aussie – it’s most definitely the Bedwetters who are the more aggressive.
And it’s shameful.
The Away support has been, through most of my awaydays over the years, absolutely fantastic. But there are elements within it who have been fucking embarrassing. Like they were today.
I would like to point out that this is not something to do with the ‘firms’ who generally do their stuff well away from the rest of us. They have their own fixture list and meetings, and they know the rest of us have no wish to be involved. But today was very different. It was among ‘the rest of us’.
My observation is that the punches I saw today were among the beered up over-entitled fuckwits. And they do my head in. Embarrassing and completely brainless.
Can’t agree with a fair amount of that Aussie but you are entitled to your opinion.
Looking from abroad I am upset to hear about our fans attacking each other (or anyone else for that matter), whether affected by drink or our poor performance on the field.
Holic, thanks for the summary, but it does bring into question what is going on within the club and the first team squad
I know nothing personally of what AW is doing, but for me it is more a question of what he is not doing.
He says that he has more experience and success , and that people who don’t have his experience cannot question what he is doing (I paraphrase perhaps!), but his teams , when they arrive in the pitch, can only play in one way, it seems to me, and more and more he seems set in his ways (I speak as a stubborn 71 year old, who recognises his own failings, including following Arsenal for more than 60 years as a typical example)
In today’s game, you have to recognise the different teams you are playing against, and your own team’s strengths and weaknesses, and adjust your style and tactics accordingly. You cannot rely on patting your players on the back, telling them that they know how to play, and leaving them to get on with it. (OK maybe AW doesn’t just do that, but at times it does feel like it).
The team must also learn to play the percentages a bit more, when playing against the roughhouse tactics that the majority of teams play against us (the treatment that Jack W and Theo get handed out come to mind.
I don’t want to harp on about the ref today, but he did seem to like awarding free kicks for good acting rather than for foul play.
We have a good team, a good squad behind it, but AW is not managing them properly, apparently with unrest amongst the senior support players who are not getting rotated in for a reasonable chance to retain match sharpness (not just match fitness) (Pod, TR and Campbell for example).
Finally, I remember enjoying recently seeing a match when our players demonstrated how they could play, exploiting their team’s strengths, and demonstrating all their skills to best effect. The only problem was that they were playing for Roy Hodgson that day . Have we found our next manager??????
For what it is worth i am pained by those at the polar opposites of the debate. Snowy should blog. It is possible to not be a WOB or an AKB and not be too concerned if he is here or not, but rather to want to support Arsenal. The lack of civility and respect between Gooners in this world of 24/7 social media is becoming something that is so very difficult to comprehend, and therefore deal with.
It was a very poor first half performance — irrespective of the inexperience in the back four it was the collective lack of focus and simple commitment that did us in — especially at a venue where we by now should really know better how to approach the game. The players and managers should share the responsibility for that.
It was a game of football, played by a club we love and support. And for 45 minutes they played like shit. And that should be that.
All these portentous doomsday narratives — “Where is Arsene taking us?” , “Cannot believe what is more embarrassing!” — betray the strange priorities of a pampered, over-entertained and under-informed society lacking insight about the nature of the world they live in.
Tip of the hat to GSD, Toby and Snowy, and to the Guvnor. Beacons of light amidst the day’s gloom. I followed the Arsenal before AW came and will still be doing so after he has gone. It is what fans do. If you want some schadenfreude today get it from Mourinho.
The Stoke game seemed a bit like the Southampton match midweek. Awful first half followed by a second half turnaround, save starting the second half three goals down rather than level pegging was too big an ask. Question is why are we a team of two halves?
Snowy and bath,
Thank you firstly for sharing both your thoughts and for being able to disagree with some (or plenty) of my thoughts without resorting to name calling…or abuse…or showing any lack of respect of my opinion, even though it may differ compeltely from you both on what is simply my preferred future direction for the club..
The fans dont disagree in such a serious manner about much else..
Player buys, team set ups, changes to the team and so on are normal football club discussions of every team from junior football to seniors to pros…and rarely is there agreement there by any set of fans, but that should be part of the fun of being a football club fan….discussing the team…win lose or draw
We all follow a great football club and as holic rightly said @42, we should be able to follow the club in at least a civil manner, if not anything else..
However the main point of serious disagreement are not those things, it is just the current direction and future direction of arsenal FC that does seem to polarise the fans and the media, like no other.
DrF- what is so wrong with fans asking where is arsene takin us… These questions, just like the banner wavers are just questions that would not be asked if the team looked like it was moving forward….instead of backwards…
Example- when have we ever been down 3 nil to stoke in the first 45 mins in our history…?
I am sure without checking the answer will be never…
I didnt see the banner wavers or those that leave the matches early throwing punches…
It is undeniable that the team is not moving forward and in fact many would suggest this is the poorest arsenal team in many a year, yet we have some of the best individual players we have ever been lucky enough to see in an arsenal shirt.
Lets not pretend that others dont get bad ref calls, have injuries, have conflicting schedules, etc etc..all teams end up with the same opportunity for success, arsenal in many ways have more opportunity for success, but our sucesses are seen by many, me included, to be very old successes..
Anyways, there is not even any point in discussing the team set ups, who is injured, who is fit etc or who is playing good and who is playing bad, the players themselves, just like the fans, are not the problem we have…
Holic – The world of social media has changed the way people deal with each other in every sphere, not just football.
It is indeed ironically named.
Arsenal fans discontent, anger and questioning of wenger is not about a simple poor first half of football….against stoke.
It is much more than that…..
It is about that poor first half of football being seen over and over and over again.
These poor performances were firstly kept for the top four in the epl, however now those same poor performances are beginning to manifest themselves against lowly shithouse sides such as stoke…and hull…
However today, there was no glorious comeback to hide the glaring defficiencies of this team and this manger..
Wenger looks completely lost and unsure for one with so much experience…who should not be questioned.
He deserves to be questioned constantly while his performances do not match his remuneration, but even more importantly he deserves to also have some answers, rather than arrogant one liners or refusing to answer at all.
He has built this squad and their poor performances with complete freedom, ownership and responsibility. He should also start to accept the full responsibility and take full ownership of his own personal failures as a football manager..
Past successes and previous experience are not answers for current failures.
Arsenal fans should refrain from arguing with each other because no fans are to blame for the stoke first half display and all the other first halves displays just like it.
No comment. Bored with saying the same thing game after game.
Hey, Ttg … remember when you said “Sadly I think Chelsea have a realistic chance of going unbeaten?” (#232) http://goonerholic.com/2014/11/ill-give-you-3-0-oh-no-you-wont-you-know/#comments
At least that ghost has been laid. And congrats to BB in the same thread who said the chavs would probably lose to Newcastle. Prescient!
Öskar
Many thanks Öskar!
Did not think anyone paid my ramblings much heed, but the chavs were due a loss and am glad the barcodes did ’em in! They are always the most vulnerable when they believe their own press.
Invincibles?! PAH!
Next I’m predicting we’ll go on a good run in the CL, same reasons.. we are due one and are a better team than most make us out to be. We’ve just been really unlucky with extended injuries.
Plus the press predicting our demise never fails to cheer me up when we always prove the contrary.
😀
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30361912
Moaninho! Boo Hoo!
HAHHAHAHHAH!
😀
Cheers H! Looking forward to next Saturday mate.
Good man Snowy!
And what Cynic said about ‘social media’. ‘Social’? That’s a fucking laugh; its all about the Me Me Me Media bit.
Nicely honed line there Esso, the Me Me Me Media.
Thought my socks would never wring out.
Drink of your choice on the bar, sir.
How to stop Alexis : http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/12/06/23CFBC8C00000578-0-image-m-2_1417889301443.jpg
…with enormous assistance from the Ref as well!
Today’s Arseblog is absolutely spot on.
I just saw the Charlie Adams/ Alexis incident. Wow. Just wow.
The reffing standard is awful and there is no recourse for clubs if they have been shafted. In fact, managers routinely get sanctioned for any negative comment about the referee. Madness.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Could we press police charges against Adams for assault?
Well played Holic, bath, snowy, Esso,
Especially snowy for making the trip, and Holic remaining calm before, during (?) and after the storm.
I’m afraid I didn’t, wound up by first half radio commentary, and it’s always worse when you can’t see it.
Unfortunately the first half was no better when I could see it, but the second galf was a decent fight back at least.
The referee was not entirely to blame for yesterday’s performance by any means, but Anthony Taylor surely qualified as an official in another sport and accidentally walked into the Premier League offices. Does this idiot, or crook, actually understand a single thing that happens on a football pitch ?
Esso, “social Me Me Me Media”. – classic. 🙂
GSD – sorry, didn’t mean to miss you off the list. Good stuff.
Cheers Trev,
I am going to take the liberty of shortening Esso’s wonderful phrase by one ‘me’ and to make ‘Social Me Me Media’ my permanent phrase for twitter and the rest.
It is just so bang-on the money. Thanks, Esso, for coining a real pearler.
I think it’s better without the ‘Social’. A simple Me Me Me Media as originally coined by Esso hits the nail on the head for me. Drinks all round to warm and cheer and a double for the master wordsmith.
Just a short post this morning to echo Trev in commending Snowy for her top class post and observations of what was, a very difficult day, for any fan of the club.
I was surprised we played 2 x 19yr olds in the back four but the fact that we had no other choice tells its own story.
The thing that leaves me speechless (apart from the poverty of our midfield) is how we nonchalantly approach fixtures like this and then become surprised with the outcome. It is no longer surprising. That’s the real issue and it is not something that can be addressed in a transfer window!
Snowy
I can’t believe that of all the away games, Gooners should choose the tar pit of Stoke to throw punches at each other and abuse the boss and players? Gutted and embarrassed for them and the rest of the away support, club, manager and players. I haven’t been to that ground since Ramsey was done. The spirit shown by the players and support despite the vile abuse, actually perhaps because of it, was amazing and I’ll never forget it.
So it’s sad that a below par performance, prompted by increasing numbers of injured players, should be the catalyst of grown men acting like spoilt babies.
I would love the boss to have more success at the club and I think he can still, but I feel we need to be active come January.
Thanks for some really intelligent and sane posts! This place is very cathartic 🙂
And in all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, it completely escaped me that our PGMOL enforced penalty embargo has been lifted.
Fantastic and fair write up barman,
Shame the team doesn`t share our passion. 🙁
A couple if nods to Antipodean colleagues.
Aussie
Interestingly we lost 5-0 to Stoke in September 1970( But it was only 2-0 down at half- time!) . Thrashed out of sight……. That side went on to do the double that season. Not that Im implying that this side will do the double but by the same token even great sides have off days.
That said I don’t think anyone here is minimising the crappiness of our defending . It’s just that we have come to expect so much and when we dip below that some supporters , many of whom haven’t seen an Arsenal side that weren’t contending for at least a Champions League place can’t handle it. Sadly that’s football as Man United showed last season. Also you mentioned a gear if change. It’s a very interesting phrase. I don’t think many people here would fear change if we thought it would guarantee success but who can guarantee that- a United us a case in point. A crisis at Arsenal is not being in the top four. So the bar is set high. That doesn’t excuse yesterday but does provide perspective.
Good as you say that we can debate this without acrimony. Long may that be so.
OTD
You’re quite right to call me out on that prediction about Chelsea. I’m so pleased that the odious and two- faced Mourinho saw his team slip up again. And aren’t they getting a lot of cards for a team with a manager who sets out to intimidate referees ?( as Pardew said it’s now ‘ Mourinhotime’!
It just shows what an achievement that was in 2003/4. Hopefully never to be repeated. But I don’t think I was alone in feeling they might do it. Mentioning it hopefully jinxed them.
Sorry Aussie I meant a fear of change not a gear change. My iPad strikes again!
Ladies and Gents
I wasnt to sure wether or not to post as some of the scene`s I have viewed have made me a little less proud to be a gooner.
It is not blaspheme or high treason to have different opinions on the same subject. Those who are pro Wenger and those against all have very valid points to make and I can see thier point of view on both.
To result to in fighting is just beyond all belief. I can imagine the frustration at travelling all the way to Stoke to watch that 1st half display would at least raise the tension levels amongst our great travelling support.
What followed after the game is a different matter. It was not exceptable in any shape or form at all !! My son who I have done a very good job in making him the next generation of gooner came into me to show me the footage on youtube, he couldnt believe it. I was ashamed that it had come to this.
COYG`
I have just watched the whole first half for the first time.
A few points are worth making.
As Martin Keown said at the beginning this is a ground where Arsenal have found it hard to get anything. Our record before today was abysmal.
Each Stoke goal was sloppy with several individual errors leading to it, most notably from Gibbs, Per, Chambers and Flamini. I thought Bellerin was exposed occasionally but he was by no means our worst defender.
HFB’s failure to score from his free header was as significant as any of those individual errors at the other end. He looked hot when he came on as a sub recently but to expect him to be ‘on song’ after so long out was probably naive.
From early on, the referee’s inequitable application of the laws was a reminder of the Villa game in which that approach certainly determined the outcome with the opposition allowed physical licence without sanction rendering our players confused by his intolerance of relatively minor infringements from them.
I thought we grafted hard but it wasn’t our day, either with the players available, opposition, ref or Lady Luck. Shit happens, especially in Stoke.
Get those toys back in the pram fellas.
Nice point Dexter @62. I overlooked that as well. Drinks all round barman.
F*cking do what I want!
Just watching Corporal Jenkinson in action at Upton Park. Hoisted a fabulous cross for Carroll to head past Fab, for which he’ll be praised by those who’ll scream about AW loaning him out. What they’ll overlook is that he switched off on Montero’s (remember him from the Swansea match?) run that set up Bony’s goal. Having a good match overall and good to see him get the experience, but underscores that you need to view matters with some balance, which, apart from these quarters, seems to be in short supply nowadays.
Stoke, first half was a debacle. We failed to get out of the dressing room, missed the best chance of the half and never imposed ourselves in any respect. Things went from bad to worse, with no one getting to grips with a deteriorating situation.
With no Kos, no Arteta, no Jack and a half fit Gibbs and with two inexperienced 19year olds in the back four, we were always going to be vunerable at the back to a team like Stoke, who always give us a tough work over. We knew exactly what to expect, sadly we appeared to be under prepared for the frey!
Credit must be given for a manful effort in the second half to get us back in the game. Someone must have instilled some pride into the players during the interval. I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in the dressing room.
We didn’t quite make it and the Ref had a big say in that but you can’t give any team a 3-0 lead at half-time in the PL and expect to get out of the game unscathed.
Snowy, you have my sympathy at having to witness the indefensible behaviour of a section of our travelling fans. What ever the result of a game I and I trust the majority of Arsenal fans would not dishonour our players in such a manner They need our support not the abuse which came from a mindless minority of fair weather supporters.
Lets all get behind AW and the players and I am convinced things will improve once our first choice defenders are back in the side.
Onwards and upwards. COYRs
Jenkinson is developing nicely at West Ham
Jenkinson looks, Bayonne Jean’s point notwithstanding , a very decent premier league right- back. He would have been very useful yesterday.
A Charlton friend tells me they are delighted with Coquelin. OK he’s playing in a lower division but a lot of our team played to lower division standard yesterday. I would write off Tuesday’s game .Que sera sera in Dortmund. My suggested team.
Ospina if fit or Martinez
Debuchy, Chambers, Ajayi, Bellerin
Flamini, Zelalem , Rosicky
Campbell, Podolski
Akpom
Subs Martinez , Pleguezelo, Maitland-Niles, Crowley, Mavididi, Moore, Willock.
The subs are guesswork and based on comments from those I know who see the youngsters. A couple think that Crowley is already close to the
best midfielder at the club. Slight hyperbole but he is a talent. I’d make Flamini or Rosicky captain. . Could we use Afobe in the CL?
@TTG
Was just thinking along similar lines, along with Doc Faust ..rest the first team players and give the others a chance… they may even surprise!
😀
TTG, my view is in accordance with yours re the Corporal, with the slight divergence that he is DEVELOPING into a useful RB, and is probably benefitting from being out of the limelight of this season’s stretched Arsenal defensive alignment.
And he is still showing his Arsenal pedigree, as he needed subbing off with an injury late on!
Just wanted to say that, as ever, this bar is a calm port amidst stormy seas. Some wise heads on here and perspective being kept. Well played all.
We’ll have better days, and we’ll celebrate them together, just as surely as we help one another through the bad ones.
COYG
TTG, I think playing the reserves on Tuesday is essential. Your team is fine though I would not risk Flamini. Although he is clearly a squad player rather than first choice and was culpable for the second goal yesterday, he had 2 fine performances before that and remains our only fit notional defensive midfielder.
That Messi isn’t half bad is he?! What a goal!
Think we can get Alexis to do that too if he wasn’t running back to defend all the time!
Welbeck-Giroud partnership looks good too. With Theo and Ozil coming back we’ll have a glut of attacking midfielders! Counting the days…
😀
bath nails it @67.
The first 45 minutes were utter shit, basically. But unlike the disasters at Anfield and Stamford Bridge of last season, this time we didn’t cave in entirely and instead came back to make a real game of it and despite the crapness of the first half we did, overall, create enough to have won it and were also robbed on two one v ones by the unbelievably inept Anthony Taylor. How in the whole world is he a Premier League referee???
Anyway, not much more to add that hasn’t already been said by others. I hope we basically send an under 21’s team to Turkey. Rest every player we possibly can, I don’t care that we still have a theoretical chance to finish top of the group. If we do, you can bet your arses that Barca will finish second and we’ll be drawn v them.
GSD @19. Thank you for an inspired drink. Have a few on me. Just to give Lars a brief respite. 🙂
We just need to stop blaming the referee. Both teams had bad decision go against them. They could have been 4 goals up too. We need to look within ourselves to fix this miserable season we hare having so far in the EPL. Every other week, we blame fans,referees and every one but, the board, management and the players themselves.
Yawn : http://i.imgur.com/0P242gb.gif
😀
Don’t post much, but wanted to say how glad I am to know this blog. Appreciate it Holic and all the rest, with whatever opinion you may hold. I just appreciate measured thought and civility.
As for our Gunners, I, like others, am looking to the board, the coach and the players for improvement.
Now, COYG
i thought I’d raise my head over the parapet now that the worst of the “friendly fire” is behind us.
While I admire those supporters whose positive nature renders them incapable or unwilling to critisize AW, it is not a feeling I share.
To me AW is the greatest Arsenal manager ever. Period.
He is however,in my view,past his best, and will need to be replaced at some point in the next few seasons anyway.
It should come as no surprise to anyone that people become less dynamic and inspired as they get older (try listening to a recent McCartney album if in doubt), and there is no shame in age related decline.
AW is no longer the free thinking genius of yesteryear, but he is still a top quality manager.
In my view there actually are a few managers out there who could realistically do a better job than Arsene (Ancellotti, Gaurdiola) but none which are likely to become available in the forseeable future.
My conclusion is that we must accept that AW is still the best man for the job and back him -warts and all.
I dont doubt our ability to finish in the top four this season but also understand people who see this as a “failure”.
Arsenal, for the most part have been a painful watch so far this season,but AW may yet prove that there is life in the old dog yet.
The bare minimum he deserves is our respect and continued support until such time as a superior replacement is appointed and his tenure is finally over.
Need a drink?! : http://i.imgur.com/90QMrcP.gifv
😀
IF@85
Very reasoned and pragmatic. I think this bar calls Wenger to account on a regular basis but above all we are Arsenal fans and the club comes first. The decision to replace Wenger must eventually come but his successor will need very big shoes and we will need to make that decision very carefully.
One tin pot cup in ten years ! Says it all.
Haha – So Chelsea are not invincible. Poor Maureen! 😆
Oh excuse me!
😆
Great post @85, IF. Well reasoned. Drink on the bar.
Depends how you quantify success Kev. You know any oil oligarchs who can help us?
TTG @ 87 – agree entirely!
I’ll drink to your continued good health bathgooner and an Arsenal revival!
Cheers!
Kev@88, not so well reasoned because it doesn’t nearly say it all.
Keep trying though.
8ball- Have one for yourself too. Cheers!
Really excellent post IF. Agree entirely.
And with TTG’s addition.
Setiously lads any fan hanging on to Arsene is best man for the job is like a teenager refusing to give up on Santa, was it the 8 conceded at Utd , the 4 goal lead lost at Newcastle , the 3 to anderlecht or the woeful and shameful white flag surrenders against every one of our 3 rivals that convinced u he still knows best ? It’s long past smell the coffee time , great man , great servant , time long gone
Excellent, balanced post by IF.
Just seen the video of … whatever they are … giving Wenger heaps at the station. Now I’m no fan of the guy and haven’t been for ages but fuck’s sake.
By the way, Brainiacs (if any of you are reading this) there’s no need to urge Joel Campbell to leave because he’s going to be sold anyway.
Oh well if nobody is going to claim it, I will tap it and go to goal line technology for the decision.
*flash flash flash* GOAL! *flash flash flash*
There is apparently a Wenger Crescent in Stoke on Trent.
The crime figures for the street must be low, as despite being a really soft touch, there’s no silver to nick. (just a bit of gallows humour chaps)
Nice shooting Cynic.
Whisper it quietly but we do have some silver though. Unless they are as confused as Kev@88 then Stoke and pretty much every other football team in the land will still be trying to wrestle our ‘tin pot cup’ from us.
I’ve now seen the debacle at Stoke. By that I mean the booing of Wenger and catcalling of Joel Campbell. Dreadful- has it really come to this?
From an awful defeat we’ve had some great posts this weekend. Personally aid prefer useless posts and regular wins but there has been a lot of perspective.
In the periods where Arsenal have been very successful I have always winced at fans who attach themselves to a successful bandwagon. Look at the number of Southern Liverpool fans around age fifty or United fans from all over the South! Of course that is how kids often pick their team and a lot of those fans have literally never known the really lean themes the club has gone through. They are not reacting well to a reality check!
This is the registered Champions League squad. Got to pick the Gala team from these:
Goalkeepers:
Szczesny, Ospina, Martinez, Huddart
Defenders
Dubuchy, Gibbs, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Monreal, Chambers, Bellerin, Hayden, Moore, Ormonde-Ottewill
Midfielders
Rosicky, Arteta, Wilshere, Ozil, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ramsey, Cazorla, Flamini, Diaby, Gnabry, Zelalem, Kamara
Forwards
Podolksi, Walcott, Sanchez, Sanogo, Welbeck, Campbell, Akpom, Iwobi
Take out the injured and known and likely restees (Sanchez and Kos for sure, Ramsey, Santi and Danny likely), and the squad just about picks itself:
Goalkeepers:
Szczesny, Martinez, Huddart
Defenders
Debuchy (maybe), Gibbs, Mertesacker, Chambers, Bellerin, Moore, Ormonde-Ottewill
Midfielders
Oxlade-Chamberlain, Flamini, Gnabry (fit?), Zelalem, Kamara
Forwards
Podolksi, Campbell, Akpom, Iwobi
Iliev, Maitland-Niles, Dobson and O’Connor also eligible as list B players.
Ttg … I wasn’t intending to call you out on the chavs prediction, so much as to emphasise how near impossible achieving an unbeaten season can be. On this occasion the would-be unbeaten team fell to one of the also-rans who even had a player sent off!
As I said in that previous thread, there’s a reason it’s only been done once since 1889 – when Preston did it in what was a 22-game season (today it’s 38).
Öskar
With Ajayi and Maitland-Niles on the bench against Stoke I think we can assume they will play in Turkey. Likewise Poldi must be a shoo-in.
Unless AW recognises the very real possibility Anderlecht could do a complacent Dortmund, in which case he may be planning to send our strongest (available) side to grab top spot in the group.
Öskar
Given our escalating injury problems (rumours of another Walcott set back), I think AW will be prudent and send out a squad stuffed with our fractious bench-warmers and the kids he beliefs will stand up to or benefit from the poisonous atmosphere (good practice for next season’s visit to Stoke).
*believes
Doh!
I have a couple of books on Arsene where it’s mentioned that he hates to lose so much that he heaves, tosses the cookies, purges … call it whatever, he does that, it says. Considering the results over the years since 2008, I guess he must have thrown up more than he took in from his formative years. Hope the team helps him hold the food down from now on at least.
I like Wenger. I don’t think he goes out saying, ‘Today I’ll choose the worst line-up and get beaten cos I like throwing up on the bus’. I often felt that the players he chose have let him down more often than not. By not showing up, by being indifferent, careless, essentially zomby-ing around and taking selfies, and saying ‘we’ve learnt our lessons’ only to repeat them again.
Now, given the availability and injury, he chooses the best players; isn’t it their duty to at least put up a fight? Like Sanchez? To earn the millions of dollars they get every month? Why do they need to be told to play well? Does your boss at work come around every day and encourage you for the pittance that you (we all) make? I’ll never know. Maybe they should dock a week’s pay for every game they throw away.
On another note, do other club’s fans turn on the team and the manager? Like ‘pool etc? Or the 16 that are not up in the top four? Wonder how the team will feel if they are supported vociferously even when they lose, maybe that’ll shame them into doing better?
TTG@64 – The fear of change comment was based on posts suggesting some arsenal fans would prefer no change, based on the principal or fear of who we could find better than Arsene.
But who says the next manager needs to be better…
Arsene was an up and coming manager when he was called to the job at Arsenal. He was not a legendary manager and he was not better than the previous manager, but he was different and hungry and foreword thinking and brought new concepts to the club.
He wanted to win. He was inspiring to listen too and afraid of no one, he was a bit out of left field, he believed in his concepts about the game and you believed what he was saying and believed in him when he spoke.
He made Arsenal a team to fear every time you faced them. Win lose or draw, you knew you better be ready for something exciting and aggressive and solid.
The Arsene of today looks a shadow of himself. He looks tired, old, unhappy, uninspired and he worst of all, he looks scared. His press interviews nowadays are anything but inspiring and he always seems like he is hiding something and speaks defensively. He no longer connects with his audience, be they journalists or fans alike and he can’t for the life of him, understand why.
However when Mourinho or Simeone or Guardiola or even Klopp speak on matters of football, people tend to listen, get inspired and take notice, because of one thing and one thing only;
They have current success or current form…they have winning form.
Whether you like them or not, it doesn’t matter.
They are current winners and that is what they are paid to do. Win football matches as often as possible. That is all they talk about in interviews – winning or planning how to win. They never talk about losing being ok or acceptable or top four being a trophy or stats that no one else cares about. They are still hungry to win and still inspired to win.
The Arsene of today talks about safe things, boring things and uninspiring things and about anything except winning.
Why – Because he simply cannot answer that one, except to talk about past successes.
It hurts, it isn’t right, but it is a fact. That is why he talks about stats that most don’t care about, certainly not the press or the fans. But the board love him, so he is safe in that environment and revered like a god in that environment, so that is where he looks more comfortable in today’s world.
I hope we again one day take a risk as a club on a young, hungry, and aggressive, out of left field manager as Arsene was in his prime.
A football manager who puts winning football matches as his first and only priority.
@Aussie 112, preach brother. I couldn’t have said it any better, great post.
Instead of asking what is wrong with AW , fans should take a breath and see what is wrong with Arsenal , Liverpool and to an extend Man Utd .
EPL has become a world brand and due to this , we have two set of owners :
First set : American with a great sense of capitalism , to make money or at least not to lose money , and football , Arsenal is just one business , not a pure passion .
Second set : Arab and Russian , absolutely no sense of capitalism , very little sense of how to make money , just to look at their countries give you idea . The owners of Chelsea and Man City have sunk in billions of dollar each , will they ever recoup this money ? NEVER . Now , go and tell the American owner to do the same , you better chance to convert the all world to one religion .
Fans should take a breath and come back to a more common sense . Changing AW is not the solution and changing with who ?
AW is a sensible man , he understand fans frustration , he will go something .
Interesting post @Montreal Gooner, although if what you say is true about the arabs and russians, then it is only a matter of time before they discard their money losing enterprises.
The americans will have to change too if the franchise doesn’t do well, 4th place isn’t a guarantee and it’s getting harder every year, it’s a fine balance.
Methinks it’s always something in the middle, they all want to have a sustainable income earner, but have different ways to go about it.
Having said that am against ALL billionaire participation, clubs should be part owned by fans.. majority part and that’s when you’ll get your passion etc. Unfortunately there are no laws that mandate that here so there you have it.
If everything is a business, then the most sustainable one would always prevail. The others are just going through a cycle and will eventually die out. It could be a long cycle though..
“He looks tired, old, unhappy, uninspired and he worst of all, he looks scared” Aussie (@112)
Rubbish.
He looks older … Because he is. I myself have gone from brown-haired to grey in roughly the same time-frame, and aged (visually) about twice the actual years.
He looks less happy … Because he has less to be happy about. Oligarabs have bought the Premiership, nullifying the skills AW brought to a club still run on traditional, honest, business basis lines. Would you want it any other way?
Uninspired? Bollox. He is bound to talk positively, but that is all but impossible given an impossible situation. As a result he does go through the motions more than he used to, but what alternative does he have? Cry poor and say the system is unfair and all refs are cheats?
Scared?? Double bollox. He speaks more frequently with tongue in cheek perhaps, but otherwise answers all questions (with the possible exception of strategically sensitive ones) honestly and often with humour.
Öskar
“Arab and Russian , absolutely no sense of capitalism, very little sense of how to make money” Montreal (#114)
Blimey, Montreal, I know the oligarchs were virtually handed fortunes, but I don’t see any who haven’t doubled or trebled their fortunes subsequently.
The difference between them and traditional owners is theirs is more of a hobby than a business. That makes them far harder to counter because they don’t care (financially) if they lose. They’re only in it for the pleasure of looking big and simply bring bigger chequebooks if existing ones prove inadequate. All we have to level the playing field (a bit) is FFP, but I’m not holding my breath. Manure to spend another couple of hundred mill? Where did those profits come from?
Öskar
Oskar:
what does age have to do with being successful. The most recent coaches of Bayern and UTD did ok
what does he have to be less happy about
what is this impossible situation
why is he bound to talk positively, other successful coaches dont. they often criticise their players and poor performances very openly and publicly and do not accept. they also drop players to the bench.
and yes he does cry poor, blame the system, the refs, the schedule, the pitches, the pre season travel, the media, the other coaches, the other players on a more than regular basis
Is Arsene only responsible for the past successes but not the challenges or failures ?
I support The Arsenal.
I will always support The Arsenal.
I will stop following the bloated, stinking putrid corpse that Football in the 21st Century has become, before I stop supporting The Arsenal.
That day is nigh.
@Aussie
Your posts above are a really good example of the ability to say pretty much anything you want about a manager when the team isn’t performing.
This time last season we lead the table. Has there been such a transformation in a single year? Did he “always look like he was hiding something” then? And what are you insinuating that he’s hiding, come to that? Is it not enough to simply say “I don’t think he’s performing”?
Ferguson was still winning titles when he was older than Arsene Wenger. Jupp Heynckes won the treble. There have been plenty of managers who have performed into their 60s, including the winner of last season’s FA Cup.
I almost hesitate to point all of this out, because you seem to feel that to question these sorts of views is a sort of
Cont…
infringement on your right to free speech, or evidence of “fear” among supporters. But it’s not fear – it’s just a different view, and you can’t legitimately ask for mutual respect in terms of people’s opinions while at the same time suggesting that those who disagree are motivated by cowardice. That’s not respect in my book.
For your part, is there a young, aggressive manager you have in mind to replace Arsene? Or do you enjoy the privilege of shouting for us to sack our most successful manager in history, a couple of years shy of his retirement date, without the burden of having to consider who would actually succeed him? If not, I assume that you back the board to get it right, and that you will throw your weight behind their choice, regardless of how he starts. Because my greatest worry is that those who are currently trying to drum Wenger out of town (not so much yourself, as others out there) will in short order try to do the same with any new man if the results are not as required.
Sometimes it’s about respecting the office, if not the man. There seems to be precious little of that around this week.
COYG
The truth of the matter is that the era of one coach being in a club for as long as Arsene and Ferguson did is over and done with. And I think that’s is where most Arsenal fans are scared of. The stability I guess, but that’s the reality today. Most coaches don’t stay for more than 4-5 years in a job, regardless of success or not ( Guardiola,Heynckes, Conte)And maybe that’s where the hunger that Aussie was talking about comes into place. Arsenal will most likely never have another coach as successful as Wenger in the nearest future( unless if he builds another Emirates). Arsene has been great to our club, so has the club to him too. But there comes a time when even the board has to say ok, maybe it’s time we get a new man/ mandate to take us forward. Wenger can’t be there for ever.
N7- I also agree that ferguson and henckyes were very successful in the letter states of their career and said exactly that @118.
I did not suggest that fear of change was bad, I merely suggested that fear of change for someone as good as wenger should not be feared as the next manager does not need to be better, as wenger wasn’t when he took over.
As SAG said @122, and I agree, we will probably never have a manager like wenger and our next manager doesn’t need to be better, just someone hungry for success..
I am honestly not sure why or what you are referring to with the reference to cowardice. I never mentioned anything like that..
No I don’t have a young fresh manager in mind and I will trust the board to find that person as they did with arsene all those years ago. Why can’t they do it again
I understand and respect your comments about also respecting the office, but it is also not unreasonable for football fans to expect a decent showing. The match against stoke has been all too often repeated and was not a fair and decent showing for a club like arsenal.
Steve T once asked for arsenal to simply be our best..is this seasons injuries and form our best.. I don’t think so.
I do not suggest or expect that my view is right or correct, it is just my thoughts that maybe arsene has lost the spark, the desire and the hunger for big success. I sincerely I hope I am completely wrong.
I actually expect the club will most likey choose a more experienced next manager as maybe the club is now too big a global business to go for a young guy with medium experience..as we once did with arsene.
I also do not expect to arsene to change or leave or the club to ask him to do so given his previous history wih the club. I also expect we will continue to be very mediocre and average and our problems to continue while he continues with his current methods.
I also think that is very sad for a club like arsenal and for the arsenal fans..
#later stages# should read @123
@Aussie
Good stuff. In that case, in the relatively near future you and I will be united four square behind a new Arsenal manager. So long as it isn’t Mourinho.
COYG
@N7- agreed on both counts.
Cannons outwards more often….on both good and bad days alike..and hope that arsene still has his fair share of the good left in him…
I just wished we could have fired a few more cannons at Stoke and especially shawcross.
That one hurt deep. He is a despicable player and Stoke a despicable team and I am proud of arsene for keeping it civil, even when they don’t deserve it..
I can honestly say for some reason I dislike Stoke nearly as much as tottenham and UTD and still dispise pulis even when he is not even there.
Smug prick he was..
Can’t believe he still gets under my skin.
The video has gone viral because it is the world of internet and every noob and their antics is viewed. It is disgusting to see the disrespect shown to the man who undoubtedly has made the club better.
Stoke was excruciating. We cannot concede in 17 seconds, no ways. It was a horror show and it went on the whole first half. Bojan may have played at barca but right now he is a stoke player but we made him look like a barca player all over again.
Flamini/Per do not deserve to play for us. Sorry it is plain obvious they cannot read the play as they used to, specially per. It is ridiculous to see him keep waving his hand hoping for an offside or trying to get back to position instead of going along with the player who has the ball. It makes no sense if you are trying to get back to your position if you are allowing the player with the ball all the time in the world. ex- bojan”s disallowed goal. Gibbs had a stinker to and it makes me wonder, is he really fit???
Arsenal fc is at the crossroads. We are not making any realistic progress and it hurts to see that. Same mistakes, same worries and players just not upto mark.
Wenger is for me the greatest manager to have managed us, yet for all his greatness, he has regressed to. He just seems to be living in an ideal world whereas the world has long gone forward. I am not questioning his ability but his discretion.
Will anything change? what needs to change? manager? board? players? it cannot be helter skelter but answers are more so actions are needed and it starts now. We need to have people taking responsibility and improving things than mere acceptance.
Happened to be at a Christmas do on Saturday night.
Lots of Football friends there, but I was the lone Gooner. Once the inevitable piss taking of a bad result settled down it was really interesting to hear what fans of other clubs thought about the Arsenal at the moment…
Newcastle – Careful : Remember what nearly happened to Pardew ?
Man Utd – Careful : Remember what happened with Moyes ?
Forest – Careful : Remember what happened to Clough ?
Chelsea – Boo hoo we lost a game
Not sure who is right – would go with the cautious Geordie optimism myself – but very interesting that ‘Careful’ was the most used word from all of them.
Vinay ,
AW don’t regress . He has plans : youth development and now English footballers as the main frame of Arsenal , with the intention of them forming the frame of England national team . Without this plan , England national team has no chance . He is not the kind of buying finished product players , if he has , he will , but this is not his main objective .
Any new coach replacing him will ditch all above plans and buy accomplished players , they have no choice otherwise they will lose their jobs.
Haha , well , fans want to shove in hundred of millions after hundred of millions into the furnace and hopefully some silverware will come out , this will not happen with American and English , the best capitalists in the world , and not in hundred years unless they all become gaga due to ageing .
And of course with main players coming back soon , Arsenal will win reasonably , Arsenal will . Patience is an English virtue !
Aussie @126
Cannot disagree with a word there!
The past summer, we had to replace Sagna. We did.
The past summer, we had to replace Fabianski. We did.
The past summer, we needed to lessen our reliance on Giroud. We did. With two players.
The past summer, we needed to replace Vermaelen. We did.
The past summer, we needed to strengthen in defensive mid. We didn’t.
As I see it, that’s four out of five done and all those four done very well. Debuchy, Sanchez, Welbeck and Chambers have all been excellent signings and we’ll see about Ospina in time I suppose.
Yes, another defender would certainly not have gone amiss. But for me that was always the lowest priority together with attacking midfield. I still think this team is frustratingly close to being massively good. People are still going on about not signing Cesc, but which one of our issues this season would he have solved? None, zero, zilch, nada is what I’d say. OK, not zero perhaps – maybe we’d have created one or two more chances but Cesc never was and still isn’t anywhere near a defensive midfield player.
I don’t expect us to find the elusive DM in January, if nothing else for the simple reason that very few are likely to be available. But I for one am willing to give Arsene next summer as well. After all, this past summer the supposedly tight-fisted Wenger splashed out about £75 million so why should it be impossible for us to get the next few pieces in next summer?
Does Arsene makes mistakes? What a daft question. Of course he does. No manager never makes mistakes. But from where I am sitting, Arsene is still getting many, many more things right than wrong. Finishing in the top four year after year is nowhere near as easy as some would have it, and last time I looked we won the FA Cup in May.
A change of manager? Well, it’s going to happen one day. But that day we’ll have to have found a bloody good one to take over the reins or the “mediocrity” of today will take on a whole different meaning.
Even he is saying it’s overboard, sums it up pretty much : http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30376417
With fans like these who needs opponents?!!
Jenkinson being allowed to go was a mistake. I think everybody thought so at the time and although we signed two defenders who can both play right back, you really didn’t need to be a genius to know that, when we were already short of numbers, signing two and letting three go (more than that if you count Ignasi Miguel and Djourou, who finally got his P45 in the summer after a loan) was an error.
Regardless of injuries, which are normally things you can’t foresee but with us you can set your watch by them, and not taking into consideration the quality of the players we lost, in terms of numbers and options we had trimmed the squad in a complete unnecessary and foolish way.
I often go to watch a local team on a Saturday afternoon. This weekend I stood near the bench for the first time and the manager, mid way through the first half and 1-0 down, was screaming “Forget the defence, fuck the defence, get forward”. That’s how Arsene Wenger works and when you have world class players all over the pitch you can get away with it.
It is definitely time for a change, but it should have ended better than this.
I just feel that regardless of the situation, the man still deserve some form of respect. Those fans that were abusing him at the train station needs to get a life. That was uncalled for, and really going too far.
Lars, I agree with everything but the Vermalean replacement. I don’t think chambers was his replacement. We needed DM and a CB in addition to Chambers.
@Montreal gooner, sir i am not questioning his forward thinking, i am worried about the present. The present is plain for all to see and he seems to be ignoring it or is helpless about the same.
i just have always felt he is too nice, protective of players and never truly allows them to feel bad and instead he goes through the pain and the barrage that follows. The players need to be ashamed for their performances and should have a resolve to never do it again. Yes they are bound to do it again for they are human but then to err once is a mistake, to err continuously is a crime.
When we say with pride about our fans and their support and say others are plastic, the clashes, banners, videos make you wonder how are we different. I mean expressing your view is one thing, using it to abuse someone else who has given his best is sick.
Arsene Wenger needs to leave, he wont leave now, he should end of the season. A great legacy should not be tarnished because of stupid people, mediocre press and baffling odds. He ideally should have left us in may after the FA cup win. Now it is sad to see a great man go through hell, some because of himself, mostly because of circumstances.
Vinay , I agree totally with you
This morning I read in Daily Mail about Man City new complex where they sunk in hundreds of millions , well , where Arsenal will find all this money to seriously in competition .
Totally agree with most of what has been said on here!
However if you listen to the Arsecast Extra you can’t really argue with what has been said.
Great post Lars.
Although I think that Pers form this season is enough of a concern to warrant us buying a top class CH rather than just makeshift cover. Outside of Kos, Monreal has been the best defender so far this season I feel.
And you know I’m going to disagree with you on Cesc 🙂
There’s not a solitary midfield player at the club who can hold a candle to Cesc’s form so far this season. Not one. So it just begs belief how we refused to sign him. And I do feel that our lack of ball retention and lack of creativity in midfield has left a disproportionate burden on Alexis, Welbz and Oxlade (to a lessor extent) who have largely carried the team so far. Our midfield in general (central, attacking and defensive) has been very poor this season.
Sagna replacement with Debuchy: no real complaints, but Sagna was pretty good cover at center back (maybe even a better center back than fullback) for a pair of players that went through the whole season with little rotation and luckily few/no injuries (really, they were due, especially at Arsenal) so only 90% on that one
Ospina for Fabianski: again, not really complaining, but we bought – of all things – an injury-prone keeper. still, we were rid of Fabianski who nearly ruined the FA cup final by going on walk about right at the death. Give full points on this one.
Giroud replacement/backup: just going to call shenanigans on this one. Welbeck was only brought in, rather conspicuously, in a desperate attempt to replace Giroud ONLY once he was going to be out for a long period. There was absolutely nothing to suggest that deal would have been done had that freak injury not occurred. Just for glossing over that, you should be given 0%, but whatever. Sanchez, again, not a replacement for Giroud. I don’t believe that Wenger ever wanted him to play through the middle. Sanchez was one of those deals just too good to pass up, in the way the Ozil deal came about. He was, in some sense, a luxury buy, but yes, he was bought to ease the reliance on goals from Giroud. 50% on that one.
Vermaelen: Um, just no. Chambers, a 19 year old, had, what? 8 starts last year, none at center back? 25% on that one in that Chambers was a body that could only theoretically cover that position.
not purchasing Cesc: would have happened if Ozil hadn’t happened. for me, Ozil, has more talent and is more physical (or should be), but I don’t see him measuring up. Cesc has superior vision, and the Premier League experience to go along with it. Cesc was able to nearly win games on his own, and I don’t really see Ozil ever doing that. I didn’t want Cesc back because he forced the move (albeit to the best team that club football has ever seen), and this was after the slow leakage of top players began. It seemed as much a vote of no confidence in the young guns strategy, and it really put the nail in the coffin. No way to win this one. I love Ozil’s talent, but I don’t see him making the same impact that Cesc would. I think this league will eventually do him in, and perhaps it already has.
Lars @131, Joe@139 and Matt Foley @140 all know, subtle differences all being legitimate points of view.
Cesc is only in form because the chavs team has adequate cover!
Good purchase for them not so if it had been for us.
Would have bolloxed it up had we purchased him then, who do we axe to make place for him? We’ve got enough attacking midfielders. Everyone wants to play, as it is even Rosicky, Campbell and Poldi aren’t getting their fair share.
Defenders though is another matter but then without such debilitating injuries we’re probably just short on Vermy’s replacement and that’s more than not due to the fact that one good enough probably wasn’t available at the time.
As for Arsene losing the plot, methinks Alexis would not be here had it not been for Wenger,(Pool certainly did try to get him!) and probably Ozil too (though most say he has underperformed, my wager is he’ll come through yet). Didn’t see too many calling for his head when we won the FA Cup. Another wager I’ll make is, let us see how many consecutive years the next manager can get us in the CL and if it compares or even comes close with Arsene.
I understand most everyone isn’t satisfied in one way or another with our form or results or performance… I know I certainly am not! However to lay all the blame on Arsene boggles the mind as if he’s responsible for all the long term injuries and can buy players that are not available! I for one want to see what he can do with the team he built for the remainder of his contract. He may yet surprise many of us as i expect.
The team is a good team.. provided we get the full complement of players available when we need them. And if we manage to get good replacements for Arteta and Flamini.. we’ll be on a roll and no one will be having this conversation.
Since everyone’s got such great hindsight, just thought I’d throw my pure conjecture into the discussion too.
Who’s a good boy?! : http://i.imgur.com/umzD20E.jpg
😀
matt foley: There was absolutely nothing to suggest that deal would have been done had that freak injury not occurred.
But on the other hand, what is there that suggests that it wouldn’t have happened if Giroud hadn’t been injured? And even if it hadn’t, it did happen. Arsene acted to fill a gap that had appeared and did it far better than many other managers did. *cough*balotelli*cough*
Also, Arsene has said that he wants to play Giroud and Welbeck together up top. That hardly suggests to me it was always on or the other. And since when has Arsene Wenger bought players on long-term contracts to cover an injury estimated to keep a player out for four months?
Sanchez, again, not a replacement for Giroud. I don’t believe that Wenger ever wanted him to play through the middle.When did I say he was a replacement? He was an addition to our attack, and he made us far less reliant on Giroud.
Joe: but did we really refu… nah, I’ll stop kicking and let that poor horse rest in piece 🙂
Lars: on your point on AW replacing TV5 (I assume you were referring to Chambers), here’s something from his own words, from the AFC website in his comments on the sending of:
“We were a bit young on Saturday at the back and defending is a job for older people.”
Well, if AW admits that, then why did he not bring in that experienced head, when he only had two older CDs to begin with?
@143
– But on the other hand, what is there that suggests that it wouldn’t have happened if Giroud hadn’t been injured?
think i know where the burden of proof lies there, and think you probably do too. united didn’t even know if they could get falcao, and it was only done at the last minute. that’s fairly well accepted. i mean, you wanna go there? who’s to suggest balotelli wouldn’t work at arsenal rather than at liverpool? let’s just assume wenger is a better man manager than rodgers and where that would take us. see, this game is easy and generally pointless if you have no limit to the ad absurdum.
far less reliant on Giroud
uh, we played the guy into the ground at striker, a ridiculous consecutive sequence of games, riding our luck. lessening reliance means you bring in someone who can play in that role. we didn’t really until welbeck (more or less), which as i said was done reactively and desperately. and, as i’ve said before, our midfield (and others) need to completely change the way we play with welbeck instead of giroud, which was a sea change of sorts. am i now glad it happened? well, it’s better than the alternative. but let’s not make out like it was part of the summer transfer plan; it didn’t look like that to anyone, save you, i guess.
@143
also, notice you left off any mention of Chambers for Vermaelen. Just couldn’t be more wrong there, but i’ll stop kicking, bud.
matt foley @ 140: These are all various opinions, I hope, and don’t come with a claim of objective reality. For instance, Alexis was demonstrably not just “was one of those deals just too good to pass up”, but fills the need for a specific type of player that we lacked (and why we courted, swallowing our dislike for the character, the player Suarez, and why we had hoped that maybe Gervinho would become a player like that) and have been looking for: mobile, hard-working, technically superior goal scorer who can play across the front line.
We needed an Alexis in this team yesterday, and we will see the transformational effect he has on our playing.
We all have been through the Ozil argument many times before, but I think it is rather premature to write off a player as “but I don’t see him measuring up” after a good first season (somewhat curtailed by injury in the second half), a typically effective but undemonstrative World Cup (where he played almost all the minutes, started all matches I believe) where he won the winner’s medal, and after a short pre-season staring up the second season well enough (despite being asked to sacrifice a bit to get Wilshere some practice through the middle) but then again sidelined by injury.
As for Cesc, he left Arsenal more than three years ago, and left in the most unsavory manner — agitating for a move and not contributing much to his team’s struggles (back heel to buddy Iniesta in a key match notwithstanding ) in the last season despite being the captain — and he now plays for Chel-fucking-sea. Should we not move on?
This is a team being rebuilt. And not just with youngsters from the academy this time, but mixed with a group of experiences true quality players. We are a bit off because of (a) excessive and never-ending injury list (which as many agree on this blog is our REAL problem) and (b) some typical over-experimentation which is something that Arsene is prone to (mostly to great results in the long run, but often to short-term misery) . But let us have some patience. See where the season ends, and how the team lines up, and where we are going.
We made signifiant progress last season. And we will make further in this one.
DF
– We needed an Alexis in this team yesterday
yeah, doesn’t everyone? what’s the point? an attacking wide (or flexible) player didn’t seem to be the top priority is all. ozil, likewise. did we have to have another attacking, ball-playing, number 10ish player? almost definitely not. as i say, your argument is unconvincing in the least. good deal at the right time.
– Should we not move on?
didn’t bring it up. said the deal would have happened without Ozil. in my mind, no matter his skill, he hasn’t measured up to the guy who ostensibly was previously in his role. would i rather have Cesc? yes, and no. i refuse to forgive the Barca move, and yet, i am convinced he’d be better than Ozil, his “replacement”.
and please, let’s leave the persistent condescension aside. no name-calling, but couching ad hominem in erudite prose “the strange priorities of a pampered, over-entertained and under-informed society lacking insight about the nature of the world they live in” when someone asks the relevant question “Where is Arsene taking us?” should be and is beneath even you.
BTW, amidst all this ‘tragedy’ I am really looking forward to see our second team play tomorrow. Hopefully TR7 has recovered from his injury as I missed seeing him play, hopefully starts for Poldi and Campbell, and maybe Sanogo. Chance for Bellerin to get some match practice, and Zelalem to show if he is now closer to the first team squad.
The really remarkable might happen: not only we win but the young Anderlecht squad, not having anything to play (already qualified for Europa) for, plays freely in Dortmund who are under a lot of pressure because of the Bundesliga standing and gets a win.
But I suppose in that case we will probably get one of PSG/Barca from their group… 🙂
@matt: “the strange priorities of a pampered, over-entertained and under-informed society lacking insight about the nature of the world they live in” was precisely not an ad-hominenm because it was not marked at any particular poster.
Actually I don’t think anyone here posted that even, did anyone? It was the general noise of certain segments of football followers — and not only Arsenal supporters, but others from outside who seem to be very concerned about Arsenal — and the kind of tragic doomsday narratives that were being presented.
And I stand by that: the generations to come would look back at our times and would NOT forgive us for wasting so much of time, energy, effort, expenses for prioritizing on entirely frivolous (Football, however entertaining and life-affirming to us it might be, is still a frivolous pursuit, in the sense that it is NOT essential when presented against the questions of dignity, justice and fairness — all things missing in the wider world) pursuits so much more at the expenses of the obvious horrors and calamities.
Not that we need to be a disaster-junkie or apocalypse paranoids, but some perspective please. The collective ululation of cyber-mothers’ cries at the tragedy of “Where is Arsene taking us? Boo hoo hoo” is sickeningly disgusting, almost as disgusting as obsessions over some rap musician’s wedding or whatever the latest public media shit storm that we cannot avoid.
Maybe you don’t feel it that way. Maybe you think it is entirely normal. That is your prerogative. Probably it is normal. But it surely is not hygienic.
The Ozil vs Cesc will never end. Cesc has the luxury of a matic next to him, who does Ozil have? For ozil to be at his best, he needs the insurance of a DM or atleast a box to box player whose primary role is to be the DM but can join in the attack when need be and more so if need be.
Ozil is the better player. We are fortunate to have him play for wherein he could have played for any of the big clubs in the world. DNA boy refused to come here, no first option and all, it was obvious he choose the easy way out( how convenient and coincidental again). The barca reject knows his way with words or at times maintains his so called stoic silence just to ensure he is not the fall guy. Anyone can read through his motives. He never wanted to come here, never.
Vinay, we definitely need a Matic next to ozil. Never wanted Cesc back,no matter what we are going through still would not want him back. And when ozil comes back, the boss just needs to stop all those experiment and play him in his position and stop sacrificing his talent just to accommodate Wilshere. If you don’t make the best 11, sit him on the bench. He doesn’t have a problem sitting other players on the bench.
matt foley, I have answered you politely but you keep coming back with abuse. I see no point in taking this discussion any further.
Team for tomorrow announced on Arseblog News:
Szczesny
Debuchy, Mertesacker, Chambers, Bellerin
Oxlade-Chamberlain, Flamini, Ramsey
Campbell, Sanogo, Podolski
Martinez and six youngsters Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Gedion Zelalem, Chuba Akpom, Stefan O’Connor, Alex Iwobi and Glen Kamara on the bench.
Rosicky, HFB and Danny left behind.
Joe knows @139
Lars put up a great post. My only disagreement is that we replaced Vermaelen. Not sure we necessarily have. Also believe Cesc would be very useful to any team, especially one with midfielders dropping like flies. But Wenger hasn’t lost his gift for spotting talent. Lots of people cite Squillaci but that summer we also signed Koscielny. Who had heard of him? All his summer signings were excellent and we have had great value from BFG, Arteta, Ox, Giroud and Nacho. Very few duds and there rarely are. We just need him to buy a fraction more!
Look at how the Spuds and Mugsmashers have pissed vast amounts up against the wall!
Schezza,
Debuchy, BFG, Kos, Gibbs/Monreal (i can’t call it)
Arteta,
Ramsey,
Alexis, Ozil, Welbeck,
Giroud
Ospina/Martinez, Chambers, Gibbs/Monreal, Flamini, Cazorla, Podolski, Wilshere.
Seems pretty good. I’d like to replace Arteta with a strong, physically imposing DM and have Arteta take Flamini’s bench spot. Another CB is clearly needed too. Also, there are good players under contract not making that squad but well worth having about the place.
Not much else i would change.
If we get them fit and have a run and the results are no good then lets look at other things (including management) but Arsene has had less opportunity to field his best players than any other EPL manager this year and I think his best team will do much better than we are currently. I hope they get a good run of games together and we can see if this proves to be right.
I have not seen much of Campbell so I find it hard to judge him. So many people seem sure that he is great/rubbish. I doubt many of them watched him that regularly on his loans spells. If so, fair enough but I will wait a bit longer to decide what i think of the young man.
I hope he is really good though…
A mixed bag of posts above. Some with more style than substance. Lots of good stuff though.
Cheers Lars, I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
Bath@64 I’m afraid that I had to check your source,which was validated,but it is extremely unusual for Mr W. to announce his team selection 24 hours early.
For all that it is a full strength team less the two players already announced(and Gibbs) and shows that he has not given up on the tie which would have been a disappointment for travelling fans.
To do with the earlier debate on overly entitled fans etc,it is interesting to read a neutral viewpoint which hits at the heart of the problem although the conclusion is a bit harsh
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/08/booing-arsene-wenger-arsenal-fans-media
which tends to the view that without Mr W. we would be in the same boat as Tottenham
All, my thanks for the care many have taken to express your conflicting views without unnecessary provocation. It has made for some long and carefully worded posts I accept, but I am grateful.
Busy night tonight. Hopefully the result will be a readable preview of the Gala game, followed by an interesting sounding AFC Podcast. I’ll say no more for now.
Have a good one all.
Many of us feel we are extremely unlikely to sack Arsene before the end of his current three-year contract which he is half a season into. I also think we are extremely unlikely to offer him another one.
I think that we, as fans, are just as unlikely to be able to change that situation.
So, whatever any of us feel about him, I will be very surprised if he is not our manager at the end of the 2016/17 season. It seems pointless to go into an ever more intricate and polarising debate about something we have little (if any) control over. As so many have observed, the in-fighting does so much damage but no good.
If you feel that I am underestimating our control over the situation then i guess it makes more sense to do things that you think may change this situation towards whatever outcome you want- at this point Arsene staying or going (The Clash, anyone? Trouble or Double?). We all judge the methods available to us and decide what we think is the right course of action.
Personally, I will back whoever is contracted by Arsenal. Whoever they are.
But for the love of all things Holy just don’t hire the translator…
Great stuff GSD. I’d have Walcott in that ideal squad, perhaps even nudging Welbeck out of the first XI – but apart from that bang on….
Getting slightly bored by the tedium of the Wenger debate (namely the lack of strategic suggestions about what the alternative would look like from the Wenger nay-sayers), but in short, it would be absolute nonsense to make any snap judgements in December with so many injuries, and with a season that can only sky-rocket in my humble opinion. I’m still very confident of us securing 3rd place in the league (solid progress in my book, Champions Lge football secured – more money for better players in the summer), a last 16 victory at last in the CL, and hopefully a decent/successful defence of the FA Cup….Sometimes you need to show a little patience and faith in life, and not be swayed by the hysteria of the ‘now’ and the odd defeat in an extremely competitive league.
PS – Delighted to see Debuchy back tomorrow! Will make a big difference to our defence….
Cheers Gregoire- right back at you. I’m also expecting 3rd and just generally agree with your post.
That nagging feeling I’d forgotten something. What was it? What could it be?
Oh. It was Theo…
Arsenal Vs Hull City
Home draw. Good.
Ah Brucey.. we meet again!
😀
Let’s win that Cup again!
We’ll do it sooner too..!
🙂
Not a big fan of Barney Ronay, but I do like this piece;
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/08/booing-arsene-wenger-arsenal-fans-media
Just gonna leave this here http://spielverlagerung.com/2014/11/16/wengers-problems-and-arsenals-long-term-crisis/
Very strange to see the line- up so far in advance and things like Ajayi on the bench on Saturday and O’Connor tomorrow. It may relate to the fact that I think we need to beat Gala to progress in the UEFA Youth League but sad we can’t see Rosicky who must AGAIN be injured without playing and we can’t give Per a rest at Centre Back. Still hopefully our three up front can play well. I’d love to see Campbell especially do well and I imagine Akpom will get game time as he looks a real prospect.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20141208/wenger-we-must-respond-in-strong-way
Steven Howard of the S*n calling for the board to sack Wenger…
Now I know for a fact they should do the polar opposite of what booze sodden bitter old hack says, ever. I don’t think he actually exists, just a figment of Murdoch’s twisted mind, with interns, graduates and the tea lady taking it in turns to churn out the most bile filled rancid nonsense they can muster.
Silly old c*nt.
The fans abusing Wenger and the glee with which the “media” are “reporting” it are pathetic and disgraceful and just sooooo embarrassing.
On a brighter note, Debuchy finally back and just in the nick of time! Huzzah! I think playing Per and Chambers together again is actually a good thing, as they might need to do that a few more times this season. And Joel getting a start is fantastic. But I do hope he doesn’t get slated if he fails to score a blinding hatrick, create a bundle of chances or generally not be Messi.
Oh and I did find it funny how after Chambers was criticised when playing at RB with the suggestion he isnt a right back, he is a centre back, yet after the game at the weekend, apparently he isnt a CB after all.
He is just a very naughty boy, or something like that anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I seriously doubt the veracity of that line up. Debuchy has only been back in full training for a few days, no way he is starting tomorrow unless Arsene has been telling fibs and he’s been training for longer than that and it’s been kept secret.