To Hell, Then Hull Back.
Dec 8th, 2014 by 'holic
So the draw for the third round of the FA Cup has thrown up a repeat of May’s Final with Arsenal the first ball out of the draw machine, closely followed by Steve Bruce’s ball in Alan Shearer’s sweaty palm. I’m sure the game itself will be a tense affair but personally I prefer us to draw top flight sides that we know a lot about, rather than a lower league team that come to the Grove, free of pressure and expectation, and give it a go.
Galatasaray Away
That is for another day. On Tuesday night we complete the Group phase of the Champions League and Arsene Wenger has taken the unusual step of announcing his starting eleven a day before the match. Wojciech Szczesny returns in goal and, perhaps more surprisingly, Mathieu Debuchy returns to the back four alongside Per Mertesacker, Calum Chambers, and Hector Bellerin. It is Debuchy’s first game since picking up an ankle injury against Manchester City nearly three months ago.
In the midfield we have Mathieu Flamini, Aaron Ramsey, and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. That looks a flexible trio and it is possible that the younger pair will be instructed that when one goes forward the other sits closer to Flamini. Let’s hope that is the instruction, anyway.
The flanks will be probed by Joel Campbell and Lukas Podolski, with Yaya Sanogo, returning from a calf injury sustained against Southampton last week, playing up top. The bench consists of six young hopefuls and Emiliano Martinez. I’m particularly looking forward to getting a glimpse of Gedion Zelalem and Chuba Akpom if the situation allows. It would be excellent experience for whoever gets an opportunity.
Back at the start of October we produced possibly our best performance of the season to overcome the Turks 4-1 at the Grove, with Danny Welbeck grabbing his first competitive hat-trick. His absence tomorrow, and that of the other scorer that night, Alexis Sanchez, will mean we could face a much sterner test of our credentials. A crazy couple of results could allow us to snatch top spot in the group from Dortmund, but in truth I think Anderlecht will find the trip to Germany a fruitless one.
We know what to expect from Gala, as their coach, Hamza Hamzaoğlu, has also been open in his pre-match presser.
“As we have done in previous games, we’ll try to press Arsenal up front and not let them leave their half easily. Here our opponents’ game plan will be decisive too. Football is not only about attacking. From time to time you may need to defend. Arsenal are a good team. If they react to our pressing we’ll try to be strong in defence and hit them with counter-attacks”
The ‘holic pound
This is a tough one to call, and I am looking for a first-goalscorer in the hope that we come out of the blocks early and surprise them. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is 12/1 with Paddy Power and looks the pick of the value.
That’s that then. To those reading this in Istanbul I hope that team puts up one hell of a fight for you. Stay safe. Have a great Tuesday ‘holies, wherever you are.
249 Responses to “To Hell, Then Hull Back.”
Cheers H! See ya Saturday.
Get in for silver
Well in Esso
We’re holier than the rest to be sure, Holic. 🙂
Top three on a technicaltiy
Good balanced preview Holic, lets hope for those called up will put in a hard working shift and come out victorious from a very hostile Istanbul.
COYR!
Or, technically, a technicality.
A very risky encounter indeed. While it’s probably a good thing to have Debuchy get some playing time before slotting him in to where he’s needed in the PL, it’s long travel and a pretty hostile place to get back into it. Otherwise, good to see Bellerin and Chambers thrown back in to get the bad taste of Stoke out of their mouths. Would like to see Per get a rest, but there’s no real alternative, and he also needs to keep working to get himself out of the funk.
Soton is currently experiencing an Arsenal at home vs. Yanited. Completely bossing the game, but only all square at 1 at halftime.
Manure gets lucky break as van Pussy puts in a horrid back pass from Fonte; it’s the only thing they’ve done. Rooney is a complete passenger, and van Gaal is jumbling his defense on the fly.
Definite top three there on a technicality GSD. 🙂
Thanks, Holic.
You said it all. Now to wait for the match…
Top ten surely.
I echo your good wishes to our fans out there. Frankly I will never watch Arsenal in Turkey after the Copenhagen experience and I pray everyone keeps safe.
It’s almost certainly the most meaningless game we will play this season and as such I would hope that we can rest Ramsey and Ox during the match and I too would like to see Akpom. Also it will be interesting to see how well Bellerin adapts to left back as he may be needed to play there quite a lot.
I hear Theo is likely to face surgery on his groin. If this is true we will have seen him out for virtually a whole year , possibly more and yet again from an injury sustained playing for England. An injury playing for England was the start of Wilshere’s injury troubles which have written a large part of this season off for him. we usually lose dead rubbers to Olympiakos. I suspect we might draw tomorrow but above all may we not sustain any more injuries and launch some exciting careers, including Joel Campbell hopefully!
Great news about Debuchy. Now to pray that he doesn’t reinjure himself tout de suite.
They don’t stop coming up with these coincidences in the cup draws.
The day after our game against Stoke we draw Hull in the cup. Just this morning I was thinking about the similarities between the Stoke game and last year’s cup final when we would have been down by three goals in the first half if not for Gibbs’ header off the line.
BJ
Southampton bossing indeed however they are on level terms and when they went one down they didn’t do us and threw forward everyone.
United second shot and a goal!
So many parallels with our game v Manure. Saints should be home and hosed. Manure defence awful. And Saints will lose it.
Van Payslip is incredibly lucky tonight
Van Stapleton is getting on my nerves these days! He’s very lucky indeed!
Van Cunty is a twat.
I do hope Theo doesnt need surgery, we have definitely missed him quite enough for my liking.
Looks like a bit each way team for Gala. As strong a defence as we can field, and an attack made up of players who have had limited opportunities and will be keen to impress. Key players rested. Looks to me like AW wants to ensure we don’t lose, while hoping to win so that we will top the group if Dortmund slip up.
Missing out on top spot because we fielded an experimental side, or played conservatively, would be yet another morale downer.
Öskar
RE Walcot
I believe he took injections on the 5th of December for his groin inflammation, no news on him yet I suppose.
Thanks ATG.
So a piss poor Manu win their 5th game in a row, despitte being the 2nd best game in at least 4 of those games. brilliant.
If there is any football god (clearly there isnt) when we beat Stoke in the return fixture it will go some way to helping them get relegated.
So the commentator on the Canal+ Sport says Fonte should have been sent of for his elbow!
How many times should Crouch be sent off then? Not to mention the other rugby tackles?
I think the EPL Refs are the worst in the business! Tonight as well you could sense a red envelope was being passed onto the main official!
*2nd best team.
How in the world is Manu 3rd on the table ? Unfreaking believable
Reality catching up really quickly with Southampton now.
Lars
Manu did bugger all throughout the game to actually win it!
Dexter
Footballing gods have all together abandoned us!
Thanks for that Holic.
With your permission, a link on the recent Wenger bashing which hits every nail on the head :
http://www.7amkickoff.com/2014/footballistically-speaking-call-him-sir/?
I missed RVP’s second goal as I had left my couch to go to the loo.
What a load of crap…
If there’s any lesson to be learned from all the current football developments, it’s just how sensationalist, short-termist and plain dumb the mainstream ‘narrative’ has now become, and how patience, faith and cogent analysis are fast-fading commodities…
Every time Arsenal lose a game, the angry-men are screaming for Wenger’s head, despite the fact it’s obvious he can only rightly be judged at the end of the season; Chelsea go unbeaten into December – and every Tom, Dick and Harry has them remaining unbeaten till the end of the season (despite the fact it’s only been done once in the last 110 years, and Chelsea could easily have lost 2-3 of their games already); and Southampton are this year’s surprise early high-flyers, so the fickle pundits (Robbie Savage, Phil Neville – two of the biggest luddites going) think they’ll finish in the top 4! I would bet my house on the top 7 featuring in no particular order – Chelsea, City, us, Man U, Everton, Liverpool, Spurs – it’s the same every year!
Joe, you don’t need my permission. Ever. Top man.
Nice one, Holic. A busy few days it’s been, to be sure 😉
GSD @30,
the couch will indeed be glad you left it to go to the loo.
Especially as it turned out to be a load of crap.
However, I think you are providing us with a little too much information. 😉
Fraser Foster plays out of his mind vs. Arsenal, and then sits on his line while a blooper falls to van Pussy three yards from the goal.
United still crap.
For what he’s done for you fans, for The Arsenal, and for English football, if we are going to call for his resignation, we should at least end the sentence with, “Sir”.
Bit crawly bumlick that, I’ll stick to a thanks and a cheery wave.
Holic, Remember a while back, you voiced your reservations about
Galatasaray being allowed to play at our stadium. Due to their fans history of hooliganism. I thought at the time, you were out of step.
But you were right. This game should be closed to the public.
Pretty sad indictment when you have to worry about the safety of everyone on the pitch and in the stands.
Excited to hear some of our young guns finally getting their chance to showcase their talents. Their parents must be so proud! xx
Did someone call?
Good preview Holic.
Backs against the wall stuff or no pressure at all.
A little bit of both maybe…
The result may have little difference to our final position either way.
But what does matter is which Arsenal team will turn up.
No one really knows.
However, you would expect there to be plenty of personal motivation for a good showing by each and every player for different reasons.
When we are good, we can be very very good.
When we are bad, we can be just plain awful.
The team looks good, given the nature of the match and the luxury to rest some.
Look forward to seeing Joel, Poldi and Sanogo.
I hope they all kill it.
However, if you were the opposing coach, you can see the glaring weakness in this squad, even just on paper, even with youngsters in the squad.
Flamini at DM.
This is the one single area that will continue to haunt Arsene this season.
We need a disruptive thug in there, as simple as that.
No matter who we play, where we play, what style we play, what combinations of players we have, that weakness is a huge weakness, given the level we are required to play at week in week out…
COYR
Aussie, ‘disruptive thug’ ? Please expand on that …
I hear some say we must win ‘at all costs’. That Arsene doesn’t instill that mentality in our players. Well, if that includes diving, malicious tackles and choke holds, NO THANK YOU!
This rubber may not be completely dead but it has just about as much bounce in it as a squash ball at zero K. I think you’re absolutely right, Holic, the chances of the Belgian Wafflers returning from Germany with even a point are slim indeed. So to my mind it makes a lot of sense to rest several, resuscitate a few and renew for the future by giving young talent the run.
I’ll look forward to seeing Calum Chambers extend his experience in the position he was bought to cover despite the wailers view that “he never was and never will be a CB”. (Please tell me that again in two years time when he’s starring there for club and country).
Yes! I’d love to see either or both Akpom and Zelalem get a chance. Equally, if Haydn and Ajayi are on the bench I haven’t checked), and it’s obvious from the scoreline from Dortmund after 60 minutes that Arsenal isn’t going to top the table, give either one of them a chance to show what he can do for 30 minutes.
@31 Gregoire. Couldn’t agree more with all of that. And “unbeaten till the end of the season has only been done once in the last 110 years” you say? Now which mighty, all-conquering team managed by the best coach in the game might have done that? 🙂 🙂 🙂
Enjoy the game, Holics. Do they have sports bars in Marrakech?
Well said, abb. I go to watch and enjoy. I’ll stop going if we become Leeds United (of old) in disguise.
Abb,
How about someone faster, bigger and simply better all round then flamini… How can flamini disrupt the opposition play if he can’t catch them..
Arsene has done some top business this year.
Injuries have been ridiculous.
But leaving that key area of the formation to flamini and artetta does not make any sense at all for a man of arsene vast experience at the top level of world football..
BtM.
http://www.marrakech-riad.co.uk/2012/04/where-to-watch-televised-tv-premier-league-english-big-screen-football-in-marrakech/
Not that I have any personal experience to provide you, just my Googling skills. I hope you find a good one, with or without the Shisha component. 🙂
One more possibility to contemplate. We top the group if Dortmund draw and we win by 7 goals. No wonder we have Poldi in the team.
Hear hear, Gregoire (#31), except it’s only been done once in the past 125 years – since there were only 12 teams in the top division and only 22 games to remain unbeaten, unlike 20 teams now and 38 games to be negotiated. Maureen and the Chavs are more likely to be a successful pop band than match AW’s Invincibles, trust me.
Öskar
@43 – Come out from behind the shadow of that 8 ball and take a bow, Bt8! Top man :-). These look really promising. I had tried to find some myself without success.
I’ll give you a report back. Have a drink on me at Holic’s expense in the interim 🙂
From pravda.com:
“on any other news…
Not because of the game on Saturday, but Sanchez had a groin problem for some time, and he has played 27 games. Cazorla has played many games, it is more just the number of repetitive games we have.”
Now this does not come as a suprise to be honest with you we never rotate or make subs hence players are over played and then pick up injuries. Yet again Arsene stubbornness is coming through, I wish he would rotate more often and make use of players like, Podolski, Campbell and Rosicky. How on earth can they reach form when they are hardly being used?
@ATG
He rotated players on Saturday, we got beat and he had people shouting at him that he’s a cunt as he got back on the train home.
Not saying he shouldn’t rotate more, just that he’s operating in an environment where every defeat is treated as evidence of the end times, so it’s possibly not the easiest circumstances in which to drop Alexis Sanchez to the bench and play a lad you bought for £1m, who has scored half a dozen goals in the Greek first division and had one good game at the World Cup.
Anyway, he’s rotating heavily again tonight.
N7
It’s not the game at the weekend I’m talking about, he had to rotate because we are short of players for various reasons. We all know what they are.
Other games we have won this season should have had Rosicky on the pitch and others including Podolski and Campbell. I’m not trying to be negative here all I’m trying to say that you must rotate because you will overplay other players and that’s exactly what has happened.
If you take these guys as subs and don’t play them might as well sell them and go with a bare bench because there is no point in having them in the squad. They will never get game time therefore they will never improve or reach form.
I know we are rotating now but playing every week is one thing in a competitive game and those who are going to play tonight don’t have a great deal of minutes under their belts therefore you can’t expect wonders form them.
I was on mobile only over the weekend, so could only jot down a few thoughts here and there, thought I’d give my take on the weekend’s events now that I’m back behind a proper keyboard.
First up, wanted to say that the tone of discussion in the bar has been excellent, even by normal standards. I thought that calm heads were kept, by and large, with the full range of opinions getting sensible expression: even the ones I don’t personally agree with were well thought through and pretty reasonable on the whole.
Regarding the game itself, I wasn’t altogether stunned that we dropped points: historically Stoke has been a tough place for us to go, and as a team that plays its home games on the widest pitch in the country, playing on one of the narrowest, in front of a baying home crowd that hates us, is always tough. Before the game I’d have been quite happy with a draw.
First half, we were shambolic. I’m going to indulge in a little Arsene-criticism here to offset the inevitable “but here’s why he should stay” stuff that will follow: I thought the selection of the back five was asking for trouble. Flamini is not up to scratch as a DM, Gibbs was clearly half fit, Per was shunted across and out of position (and has looked unconvincing next to Chambers on every occasion they’ve played CB together this season), and we compounded all this with a teenager (albeit a prodigy) at RB, and a 22 year old goalkeeper. I’m conscious that a lot of this was forced upon us, but even so – surely we might at least have kept per on the right side of the CB pairing? And if Kos had to miss a game, did it really need to be this one? Also very strange to find yourself wishing Monreal was available to play CB, but that was the reality, and I will treat that as testament to Nacho’s surprising quality in that position, rather than a paucity of options.
Second half, I thought we bucked our ideas up markedly, and I had no problem with the effort put in. Poor officiating is no excuse for being three goals down at the break, but I believe we would have earned at least a point but for the execrable Mr Taylor, whose sending off of Chambers for a grand total of two fouls, neither of them particularly bad, was properly indefensible.
The result brought home two clear conclusions, for me: (i) Per is struggling without Kos. Whether this is a dip or the start of the end is unclear, but we should be looking at first choice CBs for next summer and (ii) we are going to finish 4th this season. In a campaign that sees you finish 4th, defeats at places like Stoke are going to happen. Doesn’t make them painless, but it’s part of life. Thankfully, our nearest rivals are poor this season.
As for the bigger picture, I thought the abuse thrown at Wenger, both in person and online, was absolutely disgusting. “Did you ever get to watch Arsenal when they had their greatest ever manager, Dad?” “Yes, son – and I personally waited at Stoke railway station to call him a cunt to his face. Top fan, me”.
Do I think the manager is having a bad season. Yes, I do. Would I sack him? I think you’d need to be out of your tiny mind to do so. Do I resent the section of our support agitating viciously for this removal (not on here, I might add, but elsewhere). Absolutely. They remain a minority, albeit a growing and vocal one, yet they claim to speak for all of us and are making us collectively look like a bunch of twats. I cannot tell you the number of fans of other clubs who have already told me this season that Arsenal fans are amongst the most spoiled rotten in the entire country, and the events of the last fortnight have made it extremely hard to dispute that label, at times.
Here’s how it boils down for me:
They told us that a foreign manager could never win the league.
They told us that a team could never go unbeaten a full league season.
They told us that Arsene Wenger hated spending money, and would never spend real cash on a player, preferring to sign unknown kids.
They told us that Arsene Wenger would never win another trophy.
They told us that Owen Coyle, Michael Laudrup, Brendan Rodgers, Roberto Martinez, Jurgen Klopp et al would all make superior replacements. They’ve given up on suggesting alternatives now, because they’re always proved demonstrably daft within a season or two.
“They” – the people who campaign daily online and in the stands for the manager to leave – have been demonstrably wrong on virtually every count. With each new occasion that they are proved incorrect, they simply move the object of their criticism and we begin again, and eventually they fling enough mud that some of it begins to attach itself. I would add the caveat, if it needed adding, that by “they” I am not referring to any of the regulars on here (unless you were shouting abuse at Wenger at a railway station on Saturday, in which case go fuck yourself).
Does any of the above mean that Wenger is having a great season and should be congratulated? Absolutely not. There has been some excellent and well thought out criticism of him in the bar this week, which demonstrates quite the opposite – he is having his worst season since arriving at the club. If I need to go further to demonstrate that I am capable of rational, impartial thought when it comes to the man: I think he is wrong to be starting Flamini and Ramsey tonight – an injury to either would be crippling at this juncture.
Does he deserve until May before final judgement? Of course he does. This time last year we were riding high, and all the usual negative voices were still coating the manager, on the basis that we would not maintain our run until the end of the season. Just as they withheld their approval, they should now withhold their scorn. The season ends in May.
I’ll close what has been a lengthy rant by saying that I understand the frustrations of those who disagree, and even those who want a new man in charge. What I do not understand, and will never understand, is any Arsenal fan who attacks Arsene Wenger, particularly in a personal fashion, without restraint or any suggestion of remorse. If you want him out, all you need say is “He spent a packet in the summer. We’re in sixth place. That speaks for itself”. All the rest is window dressing – when he makes his subs, whether he emerges from the dug-out, how he fastens up his coat, how old he is, how he sounds in press conferences. All bollocks. Results are the thing. He could wear a tuxedo on the touchline and conduct his press conferences via the medium of rhythmic farting and I wouldn’t give a toss so long as games were being won.
A drink on the bar for anyone who has bothered to read this far. As has been mooted elsewhere, there will come a time in the not too distant future when we will have a new man in charge, whatever any of us might say on this or any other blog. At that time, I hope that said new man receives the full backing of the support, that those of us who currently disagree (politely or otherwise) will finally have a chance to stand shoulder-to-shoulder behind the team, and that I never have to see another Arsenal manager suffering the indignity of the personal abuse that was flung in Arsene Wenger’s face on Saturday evening.
Onwards and upwards.
COYG
@ATG
I agree we need to rotate more, and hopefully as we staff up the squad over the next summer or two (it takes a bit of time to work through ten years of under-investment), we’ll start to see it happen.
I don’t think Wenger had the resources to properly rotate for most of the last decade, and I agree that one of his big challenges now is to start doing so, even when it’s not been his habit to date. We certainly won’t win the league without proper rotation.
I find the hubbub over Poldi, Campbell and Rosicky mystifying though.
Podolski is off in the summer, if not before. I have that on very good authority. He was looking for a new home back in the summer, but couldn’t quite make it happen. I thought he looked great when he came on vs Saints, but I’m not entirely surprised he isn’t trusted to start, and I don’t think he’s delivered tremendous value for £100k a week when he has previously got the nod.
Campbell may well be a player in due course, but he’s extremely raw. This time last season, precisely no one was clamouring for him to return from loan, let alone start games. His rep is based on a single game at the World Cup, and I’m personally always wary on players who are judged on such a slender basis.
Rosicky… I love him, but he’s been poor every time he’s made it onto the pitch this season. We can blame that on the manager on account of how little he’s played, but is the support prepared for us to drop (even more) points while we give Rosicky starts and he works his way back into form? I think not. The guy is 34 years old, and my impression is that in previous seasons he’s been rested through the winter and then enjoyed a few starts around February/March time. I suspect that’s what’s happening here.
This is all chicken and egg. Do we get injuries because we don’t rotate, or do we not rotate because injuries make it tough to do so? I suspect the latter is the root cause – in attacking positions, in particular, we would have a lot of great options if everyone were fit, and I reckon we’d have seen a good deal more rotation than has been the case if the likes of Giroud, Ozil, Wilshere and Theo had been fit all season.
He rotated players on Saturday, we got beat and he had people shouting at him that he’s a cunt as he got back on the train home.
He only rotated the defence because Monreal was out and Koscielny wasn’t fit, and he had to sit on the bench because we didn’t have anyone else for the position. If a centre back had gone in the fetlock in the first minute, we’d have been even more fucked than we were at half time.
Apart from that the only other change we made was Welbeck.
Cazorla and Sanchez both need a rest and so, probably, does Mertesacker. But no chance with him because we’re so short.
@Cynic
He rested Welbeck and also left Woj on the bench, persisting with Martinez. Kos was fit enough for the bench, and will undoubtedly start at the weekend.
That’s a fair bit of rotation, given where we were playing.
I’m not suggesting we’ve rotated well this season, by any means, just that it’s an odd thing to complain about this week, when he’s left players out to give them a breather (both on Saturday and this evening).
*stands up and applauds N7 for drink #50*
N7 @ 50,51
Excellent (long) posts and much to agree with. My thoughts on a few of the points that you discussed are :-
Arsene has always seen out his contracts with us and I don’t think that will change unless the board forces the issue – which I don’t think they will. He’s still with us for a while and I have no problem with that. Personally I think we need a change but he has certainly earned the right to call time of his own volition, in my opinion.
We may finish fourth although I still think that third is achievable given the paucity of the pack outside the top two – if we can get our shit together soon. If not, by the same token, we could equally replicate Utd’s performance of last year and end up sixth or seventh.
Per has been a bit rubbish this year, even with Kos. He has aged dramatically in a very short time. His confidence and decision making are shot and thus his positioning is awful, only compounded by his lack of pace that doesn’t allow him any wriggle room to recover. We definitely need another first choice centre back sooner not later – and it’s not yet Chambers.
Chambers was perhaps a little unlucky against Stoke but his game does seem to involve a lot of “hands-on” stuff which is always likely to cause trouble with referees as it has done several times already this season. He needs some coaching Mr Bould.
Gibbs may well have been unfit but he had a mare – out of position for the first and no attempt at all to stop the cross for the second. I’ve said here before that I prefer Monreal – he is simply a better left back.
Poldi, Rosicky, Campbell – entirely agree.
As for the injury gods, we clearly need to increase our offerings so that they can move on to other parts of the nation – although they have been trying with Utd who seem to have even less fit defenders than we do.
UTA.
Cheers Noosa – great, balanced post there yourself.
Regrettably, I think you may be right about Per. He doesn’t seem to have returned from the World C
Oops.
He doesn’t seem to have returned from the World Cup as quite the same player, and where once he brought a calming organistion to our back line, he now seems to be contributing to a familiar air of panic.
Hopefully we can recruit another greater organiser this summer, and Per will be content to drop back into the squad mix and scrap for a place with the new man.
I say “scrap for a place”, when I really mean “play 30 games after the new man breaks his leg in a freak kite flying accident in mid-October”.
N7@50: Best post I have read from you in this bar.
A balanced perspective of the club and a good read from start to finish.
A drink on the bar for you…(Four square behind the team)
I don’t know about anyone else, but I am starting to have filthy Mancs, trying to share the same air as me at the present moment.
God help us if the dirty Scousers start to enter the equation.
UTA!
N7 great post @50
A drink of your choice is on the bar! 😀
Just one thing regarding rotation I don’t think I have seen Rosicky on the pitch apart from the Capital One cup game.
As for Galla, they really should just bend over and take it tonight, as they no longer have anything to play for. Although I suspect this last result will decide their position in the Ropey Cup.
Same goes with the other doughnuts in the pack. Dortmund have a relegation battle to worry about, whilst Anderlect have some pride to restore.
Everything to play for tonight me reckon.
UTA!!
😉
King GT, Galatasaray won’t be in the Europa League as they can’t finish anywhere else but bottom of the group so they have absolutely nothing to play for, which of course also goes for Anderlecht.
Lars
They will play for pride knowing the Turks they will do just that.
Hopefully Turkish Delight will be sour in taste for them come this evening!
COYR!
A game with no expectations but for the pride playing for The Arsenal.
So play well lads, give it a real go, no one is expecting anything for win, lose or draw, you will be criticized, oh wait that is more so for Wenger, so you lads enjoy.
P.S.- Welcome back Debuchy, we have missed you the most.
Doesn’t make any sense.
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20141208-why-we-shouldnt-always-get-along
😉
Lars – It’s good to hear such news from somebody who understands the system. Sounds as though it could go either way for any of us tonight.
ATG – If only… 😉
Top post @50, N7G. Remember when David Moyes, still at Everton, was the supposed to be the only manager who could ever succeed AW.
Like Noosa, I think AW won’t go until the completion of his current contract, nor be pushed.
And you have to fear that the boo boys will go after his successor after just the shortest honeymoon.
I’m at work and have not had time to read through all the replies to N7 @50 but I can’t leave the page without joining Lars in a standing ovation for the man. Masterful and elegant work. Greatly appreciated.
N7. Best 50 ever scored.
And when you say your posts from the last couple of days have not been up to scrap ,you put us all to shame.
Always consistently brilliant ,even when you get pulled into a no one will bow down argument,when you are suitably withering.
Keep ’em coming now that TABS has retired.
@65 – an unreadable link for UK based types as that site is not funded by the BBC licence.
Bastard outrage!
@50 N7
That’s a looong post… well worth the read!
🙂
Thanks for the kind ones, all.
Fingers crossed for a response this evening. Likely to be a strange old game in the circumstances, particularly with a really important looking clash with the barcodes looming on the horizon…
COYG
BtM. Thanks for the drink and you are right, bt8 and I are one and the same although he is the more mobile of the two of us. If one of us makes it to Marrakech in our lifetimes it surely will be him. 🙂
N7 Gooner those were excellent drinks, quite up to your usual high standard. 🙂
Here’s a cut and pasted version of the article I linked to @65 that Cynic says can’t be read in the UK. ( Bastard outrage! 🙂 )
Why we shouldn’t always get along
Lucy Marcus
A dentist, a doctor, an auditor, a world renowned university professor and an international affairs writer were sitting around my table one night. No, it’s not the setup for a joke. It was a dinner party at my house though some might think it was a risk bringing these very different people together.
Instead, it was an exceptionally pleasant evening.
Any minor disagreements were settled with laughs. For the most part we agreed about everything, from the British schooling system to the state of the European Union. As I looked around the table I thought “Why can’t all gatherings be this easy and fun? If only every board meeting could be this jolly.”
But the things that make for a great dinner party are not necessarily the things that make for a good decision-making body. Indeed, in some cases they might be just the opposite.
Sure, board meetings would be so enjoyable if every gathering were filled people with whom we wholly agree. We’d have a laugh, things would move along quickly, decisions would be made easily, and then, at the end of the meeting, we could have a congenial meal and head out.
But that is not the role of a board or any gathering that hopes to hash out tough issues. Nor should it be. As a board director, part of my role is to ask hard questions and challenge assumptions — both my own and others’. In the end, if the group has enough expertise and good judgement around the table, it will come to a better decision because of that robust discussion.
There is a line of thinking that organisations must strive for complete harmony at all times, but a bit of disharmony can be very fruitful. Feeling comfortable with disagreement, as long as it does not escalate into something personal or destructive, can lead to much better outcomes.
It is similar to the sand in the oyster that makes the pearl: If there isn’t room for a little something different, then we are less likely to see exciting results. The same is true for decision-making groups. If we are to achieve innovation and disruption, then sometimes we first need discordance and discontent.
For this to be successful, organisations need two things to be in place.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
First, a fundamental understanding that there is a respect for the people who gather. If those who dare to disagree are treated poorly or contemptuously, then the organisation will suffer. If the larger organisation is not accepting of new ideas and suggestions, then creativity can be squelched. People need to know that their place of work is a safe place for disparate ideas to be presented and solutions to flourish.
That is not to say that they can be flame throwers or disrupters just for the sake of it. That isn’t productive either. But if someone has something constructive to say or ask, then they, and a productive discussion of their ideas, should be encouraged.
Able leaders
Second, it takes a special kind of leader to turn possible discord into something productive and fruitful. This applies to those at the head of an organisation, as well as the facilitator of any discussion. You need someone who allows and manages disparate views and ideas, as well as someone who can make sure that the discussion will be productive.
I once arranged for a master facilitator do exactly this during a potentially contentious meeting about how to help develop women leaders across the Western Balkans. She started by offering up some very provocative ideas of her own and encouraged the other participants to challenge her. This meant that participants who normally found very little to agree on outside the room suddenly felt a common cause in disagreeing with the facilitator.
As the discussion evolved and ideas began to crystalize, she not only managed to help the participants arrive at a workable consensus that they could take back to their own organisations to implement, but she also demonstrated that they had far more in common than they might have thought they did before the meeting.
The secret to her success was that she had run the meeting so that each person felt they had been heard, their views had been given full consideration and that there was a productive path forward.
Meetings with creative tension can bring an exhilaration and satisfaction that perhaps can’t be found in a comfortable jolly meal with friends. Organisations can be made stronger through creative friction.
Bringing together people with different ideas, knowledge, and experience and turning that conversation into something useful for the future of the organisation is worth the effort.
Lucy Marcus is an award winning writer, board chair and non-executive director of several organisations. She is also the CEO of Marcus Venture Consulting.
Awesome @50 and 51 N7. The Truth.
Bottle of Bollinger on the bar for you, sir.
washed up in istanbul
Did you used to be washed up in france? If so, how was the trip? If you run across Bodrum Gooneress there could be a pro-Arsenal riot. 🙂
N7 (Jurgen)
Great post @50.
*doffs hat and nicks the Bollinger from Baff whilst you are distracted by my flamboyant ways*
N7. Incredibly well said.
Bath
I thought Lars had the bottomless wallet.
Truly awesome post N7.
A bad performance tonight might danger morale for Saturday.All I want to see is everyone coming home in one piece having put in a decent shift.
Let’s hope the Stoke mindless minority of our supporters have stayed at home.
If we get out of tonight’s game with a draw, then we will have done well.
Fingers crossed. COYRs
Delia, it’s on Lars’ tab. 🙂
Sadly I have been told that the dork with the banner has declared that he will erect it tonight, win, lose or draw.
Expect more from him and his associates on Saturday.
It’s become an obsession for a group of former ‘fans’ of the Club. Sadly it’s now a way of life for them. If they do taste blood then we can expect it to swiftly become the default position of a section of the ‘fan-base’ for any manager who fails to win every game, playing like Brazil.
Frankly I find it embarrassing to be, albeit remotely, associated with these ‘people’ as an Arsenal fan..
Really good and honest post N7 @50.
I enjoyed it, for various reasons.
May I firstly congratulate N7 on a series of quite excellent posts especially no.50 which is a really rational and balanced summing-up of the current situation. I would say he has taken the words out of my mouth but he has said it much more articulately. Top stuff.
I had lunch today with a Gooner who went to a Christmas party last night. He expressed alarm at a conversation with a Gooner friend who was at Stoke on Saturday and who was among those heckling the team and Wenger as they boarded the train. My friend said he was disgusted and thought it counterproductive as Wenger is not going go leave mid season, nor did he feel be should do.
The response of the other guy, a very senior executive , was interesting not to say terrifying. He said that ‘ the travelling fans are sick and tired of Wenger and want him out period!’
How daft is that? Firstly I believe it to be wrong but that’s my opinion but it can only harm a team playing under enough pressure already. There is no sign to me that Wenger has lost the dressing room. Anytime the Myles Palmers and other know-alls say this Arsenal salvage their season and the team ends in excellent shape. I think it will again but I agree with N7 that Wenger, by his own standards is having a ‘ mare’ . But frankly in a very difficult job I think he has earned the right to be given time to put it right. If we were clearly declining without hope fair enough but we are 6th, have qualified for the last 16 of the CL for the 15th year in succession ( How City and Liverpool would love to say that at this moment)
Let’s judge Wenger fairly in May, look at all the evidence and make up our minds. I suspect it will be a season of comparable achievement to many that we have seen before, hopefully with a Cup thrown in and maybe real progression in the CL. By all means let’s look at the debit side but to do so ruthlessly at this juncture is an incomplete and inappropriate judgement that won’t help the immediate future of this club.
TTG! An excellent post too. This is more like it!
Great stuff…. learned debate without repeated dogma or the NEED to be right (all opinions welcome) = a healthy enjoyable bar.
Carry On!
A pint for the next great post…..
A little statistic to show why AW, whilst not at all without fault, does not deserve any type of abuse from Arsenal fans… indeed the reverse. Whether you feel he should continue or not is up to you. But abuse???
Some context via @JWTelegraph:
“Arsenal achieved 23 top four finishes in 92 seasons prior to the 18 in a row under Wenger.”
Heh @ Catalan Gunner @ 85.
Read it and weep.
bathgooner, The Wenger Ahht proponents will no doubt write this off as nostalgia for the last 18 years. Did you mention that the 18 straight years are, as a matter of fact, ongoing as we speak?
Catalan. Did you make this up about the 18 in a row? Can’t be. 😉
I think “having a mare” is a bit, the under-statement.
But nothing compared with the Veruca Salt mob and their precious fecking banner.
And that was an OK post, N7 😉
That means for 92 years we finished top four on average once every four four seasons. Or to say it differently:
(92 years pre-Wenger: 25% success rate)
(18 years of Wenger: 100% success rate)
Who among the Wenger Ahht crowd would even expect anything near that degree of success over the next 18 years? Even if we are fortunate enough to match the success rate of the last 18 years, which I am willing to bet a fiver that we will not, who will we have to thank to a very large degree? Arsene Wenger for putting us in a beautiful new stadium with an excellent financial position and a constant presence in the top four and the knockout stages of the Champions League. Did someone just spell out R-E-S-P-E-C-T or am I dreaming?
I wish winger would listen to the likes of Mers and even hate to say it Mr rednapp. ! So stubborn .
Found this on a Polish Gooner (www.kanonierzy.com) website it’s an interview with Arsene Wenger and what can I say he’s a really well educated person and a top bloke!
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kanonierzy.com%2Fshownews_id-36041_Wywiad—-Co-dalej—.shtml
I believe the title says : ‘Whats next?’
And this is just not about Wenger but football altogether! Really good read!
Listen to Merson?
Oh my sides…….you’d get more sense out of a 5 year old.
Come on Arsenal!
COYR
COME ON YOU GUNNERS.
GOAL
Wow poldiiiiiii
Wow! Poldi 🙂
The hammer
Goldi Poldi scores 🙂
Drinks on my tab xx
BBBBBBBBBoooooooooohooooooooooo
Podolski!
I have to say thanks to everyone in this bar, especially ‘holic — what a welcome relief this place is.
N7 #50: Absolutely class — agree with every single word.
And all the others — GSD’s post a day or so ago (victoria concordia crescit): majestic and all the other regulars — good work!
Keep the faith!
God, I’d not even try to catch a shot like that.
Bloody missed it!
Holics, please comment on the game as I can only listen in !
Where are you abb?
That was close urghhhh
Who is this commentator on Sky he cant even speak too much Whiskey mate?
http://www.footballstreaming.info/streams/todays-links/
what a goal! Couldn’t ask more for a start..
And if anyone is looking for stream link with no disturbing ccommentatory audio, here it is http://streamfifamatches.tv/ch3ustream.php
COYR
At home, ha ha. St Petersburg Florida, but I don’t want to watch a stream, because I want to be here, in the bar with everyone 😉
Wow ramsey scores
Can we win by the 6 needed
What a finish from Ramsey. What a fucking grown-up, lovely finish.
Get in there Ramsey ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aaron, has found his way back to winning ways, lovely!
aaron just scored a peach of a breakaway started by a poldi steal. a seeing-eye peach. 2-0
Goal again!! Ramseeey!
And suddenly the commentatory is on from my previous link hahaha, sorry folks….
We need 4 more goals …hmm ☺
afternoon, nursie. i hope you’ve been well!
But we must remember to defend!!!
Hi Scruz, everybody! Will catch up on the earlier drinks after the game. Loads for me to look forward too 🙂
Ref is a joke though again!
Debuchy almost
Oooooh poldi hits the bar identical fashion to his goal
ohhhhhhhhhh Poldi, almost!
Come on Podolski!
Umm Aussie, glad you’re here! TY for your reply, last nite. You cleared things up,nicely xx
Ohhhhh
Unlucky!
That was great play!
poldi is on fire.
We can score 6 here if we are ruthless
Poldi nearly Again
Ooohh Polddi!
Theres 3333333333333
What a fucking goal.
oooh, aaron. wow.
WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT!!!! Ramsey hahahaha
Ramsey!!! 35 yards out, top corner goal!
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMEEEEEEYY
Oh Poldi what a chance, RAMBO WHAT A FINISH!
CAN’T BELIEVE IT!
when you play the lottery, sometimes you get lucky. goal of the season so far.
You will never hit it like tat again!
Again, actually liked his first goal better. Having the nerve to just roll it in, but yeah, that second goal was better viewing.
Ha ha I forgot the S in Ramsey!
Aaron has reminded us, never to stop believing!
Cheers abb
Liverpool is having a tad worse of a night.
so why is everyone asking for six? to get top spot?
lol@poldi shining aaron’s boot after the goal.
fuck of felipe.
of=off
Abb- we dont even need a DM when when we have the hammer on your side and his bag full of nails.
Ramsey now the junior hammmer 🙂
Yes scruz, that is what the experts say we need xx
The Joy Of Six 😉
We win by 6 scruz we nail top spot
cheers, abb. if anyone can get joy out of six, it’d be you, eh? 🙂
thanks, aus.
Aussie, WE all had faith in him, and he has reciprocated in kind xx
The six was confimed on uefa website where they explained all the match day variations, so 6 it is
hehe, scruz 🙂
man, yaya’s a no go today.
i hope he becomes yaya’s an OH goal today…
Liverpool behind v basel by 1
Dortmund held at bay. If they lose and we win, we go to the top of our group. Don’t know if we still will need 6 goals, though if this happens.
oooh, joel. nearly. beautiful interplay.
Ooooh how did campbell miss
He did all right except for goal angle was tight
ox trying to reprise aaron from the corner.
Unlucky!
Yes they are piss poor but we need to rotate!
great freekick by aaron, bending straight to calum. poor header by calum, over.
Unlucky Chambers!
arthur, who’s piss poor? we’re doing fine out there, good value for the lead.
One question for the bar.
the six goal win by us and top spot is still dependant on dortmund not winning.
They are currently 0-0 with anderlechdt
Small fine print but maybe important !
Now who was going to keep them at bay in their own first half!!!???
Well done lads
Great first half
not a bad half, indeed. poldi coming off? trading shirt with someone? is that a sign he’s going away in january? what?
Now these guys have put on a show!
Nah – he just collects shirts
TURKISH DELIGHT WILL TASTE EVEN SWEETER TONIGHT!
How refreshing to see a front line of Podolskl-Sanogo-Campbell. Between the refreshment factor and a 3-0 halftime lead isn’t that what rotation is supposed to be all about? 🙂 🙂 🙂
Did anybody mention that was Ramsey’s left foot?
Please Arsene don’t take off Poldi before he scores one with his right foot!!
Ramseys strike was unbelievable
Poldis strike was also awesome
Oh, I’m just so happy! Our lads are having FUN, in a game!
And 8ball and Delia are in the house 🙂
45, 54, and 61. The minutes when Anderlecht scored their second half goals against us. Not to throw a damp blanket over anything. Maybe we shouldn’t send too many players forward this time?
Abb. I’m here at half time but I have no clue how you are able to watch the game and type at the same time. One eyeball on the telly and one on the iPhone? 🙂
Zelalaem and miles on
Sorry niles
Bloody hell.
Sczezney giving the yougsters advice
What is happening
Just a question of women being better multi-taskers?
Come on Arsenal youngsters!!
8ball, just listening in on player, and then google Goonerholic so I can be here! 😉
Gutsy changes by Arsene! Nerves of steel, our boss 😉
4 Arsenal teenagers on the pitch. In a CL game!!! Bravo xx
Dortmund v anderlechdt still tied a nil all
Nikes covering the ground there well there with youth and speed of foot
And L’pool are down to ten men after the sending off of Markovic
Dortmund has scored 🙁
What is up with this ref, he’s seems to be missing some ‘stuff’ !
Bugger
Cmon lads lets keep the intensity high
Bang 🙂
Some words for future generations. They will try to say that “That lad Toby, eh, always just said the ref was shit when Arsenal lost, didn’t he?”
That is not true.
So let it be known that I think the referee has been absolutely shit at his job today.
/Toby, when Arsenal are 3 goals up, with just 24 minutes to go.
Make that 5 seventeen year olds, now representing The Arsenal ♥
Right. Gerrard equalizer with ten minutes to go. Might need to switch games for a lil while.
Right, not fooling anyone. Of course I won’t CHANGE. But I might put that game up on another stream…
We’re leading a charmed life at the moment, 6 kids on the pitch, can we keep a clean sheet?
Toby, don’t even blink! We got youngsters defending our fortress!!!
Don’t you worry, abb! Never would! Might just be that half of my one eye is switching to a tiny, tiny window that says “1-1” now and then. And when I say now and then I mean once a minute.
Tops.
Oh, and 1-1 for Dortmund at the moment.
Andrerlechdt have equalised
Had to put the little Gooner to bed misses a bit anything interesting?
Come on Anderlecht get another goal!
acknowledges Toby and Aussie! 😉
Podolski never got 90 minutes for us even when he was in fashion. Poor bugger. He must be running on fumes.
Hats down that was an awsome strike!
Nice freekick Sneijder. Almost Ramsey-like.
A gap in our wall …
but I’ve always had a soft spot for Wesley xx
Toby hahahahahahaaaa Love it!
Wow, how that wasn’t another goal for Basel I’ll never know.
…oh, sorry abb. Not watching. Promise…
Full stop our other playes need game time!
Pity about the free kick, just keep possession you Reds!
toby?
Aplogies should have been T!
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTT
IIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
TTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRREEEEEE
PPPPPPPPOOOOOOODDDDDDDDOOOOOOOLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSKKKKKI!
Thank you Lukas and your golden right foot!
Response.
Goog job. More rotation please Arsene.
He really does score when he wants.
What can I say play Podolski against lesser oppo he is just too bloody good to miss!
Right foot, Poldi goal. 8ball, take a bow 🙂
Great show by us. Arsene made some youngsters, very happy tonite.
Hence I touched on the subject on rotation! Play these guys Campbell is not match fit!
Actually. Ashamed to say, I actually missed the second Poldi-goal by a second. The final whistle in the ‘Pool game went at that exact moment (at least on my two streams!) and I just had to see some faces look disappointed. I know, not very gentlemanlike, but ah.
Good day all in all.
Getting three goals quicker than stoke could muster them, getting some CL-time for the youngsters, the Liverpool game getting tense, and actually quite exciting the last fifteen minutes or so (again, abb, didn’t watch THAT closely, I’d rather watch Zelalem than most players) and, you know, actually not feeling dread in the stomach.
Great win but this just what we needed we need to be more direct and perhaps Podolski needs be let loose!
Eh Toby, just saw your #217, naughty boy 🙂
Toby how many youngsters got the game?
Not too many it was all about the first half!
Nice evening performance. Well played chaps. Good calls Arsene.
Toby
Just winding you up 🙂
Bath
Some time we forget what a special charachter for a coach we have mate!
Great win shame we couldn’t to it!
BUT HEY LETS BRING ON THE BEST OF THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!
Oh, I know ATG. I know.
Never said the youngsters played brilliantly, did I? Just said they got some game time. Did alright though. I mean, the did keep a clean sheet. At least as clean as you can possibly ask. That Sneijder-goal is too good to be counted as a footballing goal. It should just be Gala 0 – 4 Arsenal and then some applause for some kind of unstoppable thunderbolt from Gala.
…but, when I think of it, if we were to discount unstoppable goals, we’d have to remove Poldi’s first and Ramsey’s second, now wouldn’t we?
Again – good game.
Tonight we played without fear!
Well done to those second strings lads!
And just to be clear – when I say good game I mean, ENTERTAINING game. This is far from the best we’ve played this season. But what the bleeding f do I care? Football is supposed to be fun. It was today.
Too bad we shifted back a gear or two with the DOR – AND game in mind. But happy with our performance anyway 🙂
Toby top man!
Toby a drink of you choice on bar!
How’d the youngins acquit themselves?
your choice on the bar…..
So would it have been better to push for the six goals rather than blood the youngsters?
This is what it is all about, right? 🙂
Some might say it is “only Gala”, but I think in the last three-four visits no English team has beaten them in Istanbul. Many good performances throughout the pitch. Rambo looked great, one assist and two super goals. But the best probably was that floated free-kick that Chambers missed. Ox was unplayable when in one of his runs, though both him and Rambo made a few poor passes in the final third.
Poldi played deep, providing good protection to Bellerin, and did contribute well in the midfield and defense. On another day probably would have had a hat-trick. The first goal was typical thunderbolt, but the second goal was more promising as he has stopped making those direct runs down the middle in the final few yards for a while now, always looking to play off the left sided channels. Against teams without the very best defense or willing to concede space in their formation he is still effective.
Campbell had quite a few nice moments, a few poor decisions (reminiscent of old Theo, not looking up) in the final third but otherwise excellent touch, control and ability to hold on to the ball. Some good defensive tackles as well. Started to tire off towards the end, the physical fitness to last 90 minutes playing Arsenal football probably still not there.
Sanogo was rather disappointing in failing to hold up and winning challenges. Good one-two for Poldi’s goal though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Homer,……
What youngsters?
NBN @ 245: I think the intangibles — rest for key players, including Rambo and Flamini — and giving game time to Poldi, Campbell (we will need one of them over the winter, if not both depending upon Theo’s return date, and the later in the FA Cup) far outweigh the 10% odd chance of keeping the GD +6. Pushing for it too much may have had the reverse impact, one of the reasons we played so calmly because we were more relaxed.