Olympiacos Deliver A Wake-Up Call To Gunners
Sep 29th, 2015 by 'holic
Arsene Wenger made five changes for the visit of Olympiacos. In came David Ospina, Gabriel, Kieran Gibbs, Francis Coquelin, and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. Petr Cech, Per Mertesacker, Nacho Monreal, and Aaron Ramsey started on the bench and Mathieu Flamini was ruled out by injury.
Arsene had said beforehand that his selection would be influenced more by recent matches, and in the case of Mertesacker and Ramsey that made perfect sense. Cech was said to have a slight calf problem (before Leicester?) and Gibbo for Monreal was perhaps the only tactical decision. If Cech wasn’t injured it was a baffling selection by the boss.
A solid start would be required to settle any nerves both on the pitch and in the crowd. In the tenth minute a breathtaking counter attack ended with the Ox shooting into the side-netting and a shortly afterwards Theo Walcott shot at the ‘keeper at the end of another quick break from deep. The pressure wasn’t sustained.
Midway through the half Fortounis shot narrowly wide from the edge of the box as Olympiacos attempted to capitalise on an encouraging start of their own. Arsenal were increasingly being forced on the back foot by the technically savvy Greeks.
From nothing the match then exploded into life. In the 32nd minute there was another warning shot as Fortounis’ deflected effort just cleared the bar. From the corner Pardo’s shot was deflected by the Ox beyond the reach of Ospina, his second own-goal in the competition.
Arsenal responded immediately. Ozil passed to Alexis who played in Theo for a typical right foot into the far corner strike. That would steady the ship, surely?
Wrong. Having got straight back into the match Arsenal soon found themselves behind again, courtesy of an awful blunder by the unfortunate Ospina who dropped a Fortounis corner under the bar, and according to the fifth official over the line. Goal-line technology is only allowed in the Premier League so once again that row will rumble on.
At the whistle there could be no denying that the visitors were good value for their lead. After promising a high pace attacking game early on Arsenal had too easily lapsed into a cautious and predictable approach that has plagued much of their early season.
Early in the second-half Hector Bellerin lifted the crowd, breaking a couple of challenges to reach the line and cut the ball back for Theo, but the ball was whipped off his toe and the chance was gone.
The visitors had not changed tack though, and Kasami warmed Ospina’s palms in the 54th minute. Moments later the night took another turn for the worse when Laurent Koscielny departed with a suspected hamstring strain. Per Mertesacker’s rest was at an end.
As the hour mark loomed Aaron Ramsey was introduced for Coquelin, a risky switch. Immediately Ramsey picked out Alexis in the box but not only was he denied, but also Mertesacker and Cazorla in a frenetic goalmouth scramble.
The next corner found its way to Cazorla on the edge of the box but his fierce drive was parried clear by Roberto. Alexis curled the next effort wide, but found a glorious position on the penalty spot to head home Walcott’s cross. 2-2 and hope restored – for all of 59 seconds.
The kamikaze Gunners turned off at the back and second-half substitute Finnbogason turned in Pardo’s cross under little pressure. Arsenal’s defence was exposed without Coquelin providing a shield.
Ozil’s accurate free-kick was superbly saved by Roberto as the hosts tried to resurrect their challenge, but the Greek’s increasing and clever use of spoiling tactics was denying Arsenal any momentum.
Joel Campbell was sent on for the final five minutes, a desperate attempt to break down a resolute defence. A string of corners were comfortably dealt with. Arsenal’s embarrassment was complete.
At the final whistle I am struggling to find anything positive to say about what was a shocking failure to take any points off supposedly the two weakest teams in the group. The table doesn’t lie. Right now that is us.
If we can reverse the results against both in the return fixtures and take four points out of six off Bayern then we would sneak through, but that seems hugely unlikely at this moment.
There were some huge questions raised tonight for Arsene himself. When we have worked so hard to qualify for a competition that remains something of a holy grail (for him as well as us) it is so frustrating to see us not go into such an important match without our strongest eleven.
Credit too though to Olympiacos. We had no divine right to beat them, and they were adventurous when they needed to be, and very solid when they had their backs to the wall. They deserved their win.
Now let the inquest begin.
177 Responses to “Olympiacos Deliver A Wake-Up Call To Gunners”
Oh dear …. 1st?
Shocking display nothing to add really I sincerely hope this will wake them up a little before it’s too late for Premier League too!
Usual calamity rules please all.
1 No personal abuse.
2 No post numbers in case somebody cannot read 1.
Thank you.
Wake up to what exactly? We’re done in the champions league this season and for all the importance Wenger and some fans put on coming fourth, and if we are being realistic we aren’t going to win it anytime soon. Its honestly embarrassing.
‘holic, thought you were going to break your two word Mike Dean post with a pithy one-worder. And there’s a whole lot that you could have used, guv….
Like Monaco , how can we be so naive! Deja vu all over again!
At the risk of swimming against the tide, I have to say that when I saw that starting Eleven, I thought that is a good selection despite the five changes and that eleven seemed perfectly capable of winning the game. So I would not like to question the selection too much. If Cech isn’t injured it does seem odd to rotate the keeper though… Maybe he has been playing with a niggle or two which we didn’t want to aggravate… Atleast that is the only plausible reason I can imagine.
Two goals conceded off set pieces and one goal straight from kick off after scoring ourselves suggests concentration issues from the defence. Conceding off set pieces really sucks especially when we seem completely incapable of scoring ourselves from set pieces. Giroud would have been a handful in those final minutes and he should realise that his stupidity cost us not only in that game but in this game too…
ta
I wasn’t talking about the CL it’s probably too late for that anyhow, time will tell I suppose as I will always sit back and support my team it was a shocking display by all means and I feel sorry for Wenger because this team can produce great football and we have all witnessed this on many occasions. Tonight’s selection was a mare, very bad misjudgment and how important it may be. We didn’t play our strongest team end off no positives whats so ever and that is exactly why it was shocking because I thought we have learned our lesson in Zagreb!
There is only one man who is to blame here:
Its Brendan Rogers.
On the bright side Chelsea lost as well.. 🙂
Glad you produced a balanced report with a degree of criticism over team selection. It was an awful night with defensive fragility and a goalkeeper who every time I see him has a mistake in him every time. If Cech was not injured it was a terrible decision and it must break the heart of players like Alexis to struggle in a competition that they must feel capable of winning. Koscielny’s injury will probably be compounded when Fabruel who was struggling for the last part of the game calls in sick as well. Morale will not be high on Sunday
Thanks for the report, Guv.
Pathetic, wasn’t it?
Baffling decisions (line up), too many passengers, keeper howlers, shocking defending, we’ve been here before though haven’t we!?
If I hear anything about “learning lessons” in the next few days I think I’m going to lose it.
Our home form is in the toilet, what happened?
Our failure to build on the feel good factor, of finishing third and retaining the FA Cup, by not strengthening the squad over the summer seems more and more like gross incompetance with every (almost weekly) set back. Batten down the hatches my friends because knives are being sharpened and the angry mob wil be baying for blood.
The only logical explaination I can conjure is that Mr Wenger has a major shareholding in a rod factory.
I hope he has invested in back protection too.
Homer
Too right 😀
I kid.
After another hugely disappointing result and I am honestly not at all surprised.
Whenever Arsenal show up, no matter where and against no matter who, it can be a win, a loss or a draw. Bottlers, the lot.
Well that didn’t go too well did it?
Thanks ATG.
I’m trying to keep the chin up but its getting damn difficult these days. A win against the mancs would go a long way tho!
Decision to opt out in favour of competition night at Bishop’s Stortford Camera Club was a good one!
I have yet to manage to raise a grain of enthusiasm for Ospina.
Evening BTM
I am seriously contemplating getting the Black paint out of the Shed. !
Just on the way home now. To be honest it was a shambles of monumental proportions. The team selection was bizarre. Why rest a keeper after 8 games? Especially one who sat on his arse for most of last season? Calf strain I hear? Then why was he on the bench???
Yet again it’s the same old failings that have been all too evident for the last God knows how long. The same errors, the same fuck ups, the same rudderless naivety that has cost us so many times now. Are those that slaughtered me some weeks back still of the opinion that there is not one outfield player out there who would enhance this squad? Seriously? Or do we just become moaners, doomers or the Monday morning quarterback again?
The funny thing tonight was that no one was really surprised. There was a feeling of resignation in the air at the final whistle. There were boos, of course there were, but most just accepted it. How sad is that?
I would play the kids in the rest of the games. I don’t think we have a hope in hell of getting anything against Bayern and I’m bugged if I want to play in the Europa. Just be done with it and move on. It do find it staggering though that we spend a whole season trying to qualify for s competition and then make so many changes? Arrogance? Naivety? Or just plain stupidity? I have no idea.
I can’t wait to hear the excuses for tonight’s performance. Still, as long as Stan has managed to help himself to a cold one from his Colorado ranch fridge then all must be well in the world. I just hope he invested that 3 million wisely. He’s sure earned it.
All what Steve said and more.. Cech can’t be injured and be on the bench, can he? I rather we finish last. I can’t stand the thought of playing Europa League every Thursday and then have to play PL on Sunday’s.
Excellent report guvna – balanced, factual and without any hysteria attached. Sadly this was in direct opposition to the performance paraded before us tonight. No one came out of this game with any credit whatsoever. Frankly a poor team played more efficiently than us.
We seem to have lost our mojo in the ECL ( might I add, a decline in tandem with all the English participants in this competition of late ). Qualification to the last 16 already seems beyond us unless we can get something out of the Bsyern games – a task that seems unlikely with the comparative form of our clubs right now. In fact bottom place appears more likely.
Once more we have to pick ourselves up for another big game on Sunday – let’s hope the niggles are just that and not longer term injuries.
That team tonight wasn’t too far off our best available XI and should have have been good enough to win the game. We still cannot get past parked buses. Not enough runners getting in behind their back four and we missed Giroud’s ability to hold the ball and play in others in opponents’ penalty areas.
I’ve only just watched my recording after going to a match.
If this was a must win game, why are we playing our second choice keeper, our second choice left back, a centre back pairing that may not be our first choice and a guy at right midfield who wouldn’t get into our strongest eleven?
Can someone please explain this?
Fucking bonkers.
WTF were Petr, Per, Nacho and Rambo doing benched for a game we HAD to win, or at least could NOT afford to lose? Has AW decided the CL is a bridge too far with the present squad? It sure looks like it is now.
Monaco Mk2 with a dash of Zagreb. Faith in AW further diminished.
Öskar
Touché, Cynic!
Öskar
Just the tonic we needed going into a game with Manure… 🙁
Öskar
Dream job at arsenal, huge amount of talent in the squad, money to spend, and a very very supportive board. Great platform to take this team forward. This will be 3 years since the financial handbrake came off. Arsene hasn’t been able to come close to turning things around, this happens far too often. He’s talking about “bad luck” and “everything went against us” post match, does he really believe this nonsense?
What’s the worst that could happen if we change manager, really? Too much talent in the squad and financial infrastructure to plummet.
A hero, a legend, deserves a statue for sure, but a fresh approach needed in the dugout now. Going nowhere slowly for several years now.
Koscielny injury is another we could have done without too.
I recall Wenger stating last season that we had a much better chance of winning the Europa Lge than this one….looks like he’s going to get his chance!
Only way I can see us snagging 2nd place in this group is if Olympiacos and Zagreb take points off each other, we nick maybe 1-3 points v Munich in our double-header, then do the business at home to Zagreb. 6 points might just be all it takes to get 2nd place in this group, if we hold a decent goal difference too that is.
Anyway – that’s all academic for now, b/c it’s a shocking result, and quite frankly for the calibre of players we had playing today, there is no excuse. Professional pride should dictate they’re all bloody ashamed of that, and there needs to be a serious (and sustained) upturn of form over the next month or so.
Hey we can always beat Bayern home and away especially the Lewandowski has been scoring 🙂
Apologies the way …….he has been
I think we should have a real crack at smashing Bayern in the next game, and if we don’t win we should just give up on Europe. I would rather be out completely and concentrating on trying to win a very average league than end up playing on Thursdays.
I’ve returned home now from a very disillusioned E…….s. Several hours of my life I will not get back. I’ve long given up arguing that years ago we used to play like this every week because it’s futile when people are paying what we are paying and we have the amount we have in the bank.
While I will never boo the team or individual players I think we have the right to be critical of much that went on tonight. Team selection, quality of performance , the same mistakes in defence being repeated , the inability to overcome a well- organised but hardly stellar opposition and a bench that inspired little confidence. When Joel Campbell is your only attacking alternative you haven’t got a strong enough squad.
This team is way too inconsistent and its ability to bounce back is undoubted but is being required much too often. Sadly I have zero confidence in Ospina, he is not good enough to be an Arsenal goalkeeper. Lord help us if Cech gets injured
In fact we will qualify if we win our remaining games against Zagreb and Olympiakos by more than they beat us by – so long as Bayern don’t slip up against them. Doesn’t look that hard to do IF we could ever play like we know we can.
Starting with our first XI would help Arsene…
Öskar
Oskar. You are forgetting one important point. Whilst we have two easy fixtures against Bayern, Olympiakos and Zargeb play each other twice. If we don’t get at least one win against Bayern we could be out with 2 games remaining.
TTG. Agree with all of that.
My heart goes out to you Holic because it takes a serious effort to write anything after that performance.
Good evening, Sweeper. I’d go for the satanic matt black I think. It all started to go pear shaped when Steve T insisted that AW sell Fabianski. I lay the blame very firmly at his door.
Never mind, the sun’ll come out tomorrow.
INQUEST REPORT
The patient is terminal.
Too many vital organs are regularly substandard and have to be removed.
Last rites may be in order.
You may have a point BTM. Do you think he could play up front?
Back from the game now.
Very fair report, Holic.
A very depressing performance in front of a crowd who seemed to be expecting something like this to happen. The home support was quiet, edgy and mindful of games in recent seasons against the likes of Schalke and Monaco that we have lost badly – never mind against really good sides like Bayern and Dortmund.
I’m not going to jump on the Ospina bandwagon. He made a bad mistake tonight but was hardly alone in that. Petr Cech made two big howlers against West Ham but I accept that he is our No 1 keeper and should have played.
The fact that he didn’t is odd but I suppose we have to take AW at face value and believe he is carrying some kind of injury,
If we believe that, it means we now have Wilshere, Welbeck and Rosicky out with really long term injuries. Flamini and Arteta are also out with muscle injuries and are now apparently joined by Koscielny with a hamstring and Cech with a calf.
That is now 7 players out with injury and Coquelin who was taken off early tonight, having been training yesterday with some fairly serious looking strapping round his knee.
I read that things have improved under Shad Forsythe. Thank god for that then.
That leads to another issue. Abou Diaby left in the summer. Our ageing trio of Arteta, Flamini and Rosicky are all out injured. Coquelin has become essential to our defence and has no cover or competition. They are all past their sell by date or ling term injured. And yet there was not a player on the planet who could be brought in to do a satisfactory job.
The striking situation is the same. Giroud was suspended tonight but could as easily have been injured. Apart from his goal, Walcott had another night where he made no impression. Our only alternative was Joel Campbell, thrown on for the final four minutes – a desperate measure in a desperate situation. Once again we were unable to find a single player anywhere who could strengthen, or even back up our striking options.
Even the biggest optimists will forgive me for thinking that it would not have taken world class to improve on what we had out there tonight.
Alexis Sanchez battled from start to finish and found the net with a very good header. Koscielny was fine before he went off. Without him our defence turned back into the familiar shambles.
No leader. No direction. Apart from a couple of rapid breaks, our build up was too slow, got narrower as the second half went on, and we finished up inexorably drawn into trying to dribble through a tight organised defence. A predictable plan with an equally predictable result.
We have too many similar players. Too many small dribblers. No power through the centre of the team. To be honest, it all looks a bit stale. No change in the way we try to play the game and not even a single change in personbel to make the old plan a touch less predictable.
Leicester had a go at us, opened up and paid the price.
The better teams do not.
And people tell me there was no player out there that was better than Joel Campbell during the transfer window. I still will never get over the fact that we didn’t buy any out field player. I hope we don’t end up in third place. I rather get out and face PL squarely than playing in the fucking Europa League.. Our best CB is injured now and I don’t think Coq is even fit we are not even ten games into the season yet whoa!!!
I taught the atmosphere was embarrassing for such a massive game,fans should be pumped up for it.no help to the team what so ever.as bad as the team was fans help fuck all.
Joe, thanks, but I put myself out there to be shot at. No problem with that.
My pain, joy, up, down, entirely dependent upon what Arsenal do. My views, like everyones, are different depending on whether I am writing in the immediate aftermath, or a couple of hours later.
I have tried of late to write the reports as the match unfolds. It reminds me of my youth when the Evening Standard and Evening News would fight to have the first Saturday edition with match reports in the mainline stations before 6pm on a Saturday. The matches all finished at 4.40 or later.
Even just an hour later I would write something very different. It is quite the experiment. On Sunday I will be at the game. I may not do the report until Monday or Tuesday night. It will be different.
Guys , simply , tonight football God dislikes Arsenal .
Goodnight gents .
It is 8PM Montreal , I will have a meal , a walk and forget the rest
An excellent analysis Holic. If only the team could be as productive at such a consistently high level. Can you bring your boots on Sunday?
Montreal,
Blaming the football gods is akin to AW claiming it was partly bad luck that Olympiakos had 4 shots and scored 3 goals.
It wasn’t bad kuck. It was terrible defending, not helped by the fact that we took our only DM off and had no replacement. That was a decision taken three months ago. It was wrong.
@Trev: “Walcott made no impression” yeah right. A goal and an assist, what a tosser!
Fair enough. I did say apart from his goal and, yes, he did chip it up for Alexis.
How many times did he give the ball away, get shrugged off the ball, stand and wat h the oppo four paces away and make no attempt whatsoever tp press, tackle back, make runs and show for the ball when we were going sideways around the penalty area.
Sorry I forgot one pass. Not sure that makes me a tosser though.
Cheers.
I shall bring my appetite on Sunday, bath. My love of things that make me feel good. Food, drink, good people, and Arsenal. 🙂
Matt, do not stray into abuse territory. We’re all hurting tonight.
Thanks.
Just in after a wake on the train home.
Am thoroughly depressed. It was all too predictable, baffling team selection, lack of ideas, good players under performing all over the pitch and a very worried manager who has let us down big time and I am an Arsene supporter.
I suppose we will all be back on Sunday. Too tired to think further on what was a wasted evening.
You know me, abuse is not my style. It was irony, meant for Walcott in the original sentence, sorry if that wasn’t obvious.
But yes you’re right I’m pissed, time for a coolant break.
@garsgun: yes it was pitiful. Without a running commentary you can hear the whistles and boos from the get go at every opportunity. Nothing new mind. I went 3 times in my life, last time last year I swore it was the last. Now I’d like to try an away game when the opportunity arises.
Fair enough, Matt.
I didn’t call Theo a tosser myself – just thought he had a poir night overall in terms of a main striker.
Poir = poor
Guys, calm down. This team was built not to go further than the round of sixteen anyways. We might as well get out of Europe and face the premier league. Looking like we don’t have any DM for Sunday. I don’t think Coq is fully fit. Too early for our season to look or be in shambles.
Apart from scoring one goal, making the other and being more of a threat than anyone else all night, Theo was absolute shit.
If you want to be pointing fingers at players who were fucking dreadful, let’s be having Ozil in the crosshairs. Again. I see nothing in that guy at all.
Or you could look at Santi ‘never scored for Arsenal in the Champions League’ Cazorla.
Or Aaron Ramsey who, once he got on, had an appalling game summed up by blazing a desperate attempt into row Z, top tier, from 30 yards out.
Or Alex Oxlade Chamberlain, who has been at the club for what feels like 30 years and is no closer to being a regular starter than he was when he signed.
You could pick just about anyone out of that bunch who played tonight and have a pop, if you really wanted to.
But the guy who really merits criticism is the one who picks the team. We have played two CL matches, lost both, and he’s picked nearly half of a second XI for both matches.
Cynic, i’m not actually anti Theo.
I said nothing abusive about him and I accept the two contributions he made. I apologise if I’m forgetting things or didn’t notice them, but
I don’t remember him looking a threat worthy of 90 minutes effort apart from those two things.
I would love him to be great and with a bit more graft he possibly could be. That’s what is so frustrating about him.
And, yes, Özil had a very poor night but I’ll stop short of calling him “fucking dreadful”.
Thanks for your report Holic. I appreciated it greatly.
It doesn’t always make for the most interesting 60-odd posts (in 3 hours) when every loss is used as a chance to pile in and repeat a lot of points made extensively and thoroughly in previous bars.
Oh yeah, And the ref was crap again.
Glad I went out tonight.
UTA
Blimey, all i said was that apart from his goal Theo made no impression. Having sat in the stadium and suffered I think I’m entitled to an opinion. I have not been abusive to anyone, and spoke about Theo mainly in relation to the failure to have secured any alternative / backup / competition, which is not his fault.
No, I wasn’t having a pop at individuals – that’s why I didn’t single out any of those on that list.
Sleep seems the best option right now.
Trev, stop badgering Feo!!!!
Sorry, kidding obviously.
Crap night all around. Maybe I’m deluded but I hope the players and the manager take this – another night of European humiliation – and pound maniou at the weekend.
I am not going to have a go at the players. I sure will do that for the guy that believed that this squad was strong enough for 4 different completion, no what I am saying good enough for two competition ( PL & CL). Good night folks, bring the mancs.
On the plus side, the sooner we’re eliminated from the CL the sooner we can concentrate on qualifying for the next CL 😉
Only two of ours made any impression at all, Sanchez and Theo, so picking one of them to criticise reeks of an agenda dating back to last season. At least Theo keeps scoring which is more than you can say of some who get picked every week but never score and provide only rare contributions to any game.
Öskar
Steve T (#35) … I’m hoping Olympiakos and Zagreb cancel each other out by winning one each or drawing both (and losing both to Bayern of course), which means it would come down to goal difference in matches between us (I think!). Unless we can pick up a point against Bayern.
I think. Hmmm. Let’s just wait and see!
Öskar
Re your previous lengthy drink, Trev: in the transfer window, I think that AW was wed to the idea that the only additions he should make were players who were perceived to be significantly better than those on the current roster. And most of the patrons of this bar were of the same opinion, with most of us holding to the notion something like, “Why spend so much many on (fill in the blank on a DM or striker) when he’s not that much better than what we have?”
But when you are noticeably shorthanded in certain areas — more notably in DM than in striker — you maybe have to seek out some shorter term decent solution(s) that are not that much better than what you have, but can do the job when the inevitable bumps in the road happen, and pay for that. Could you have used a Cambiasso for a year? Could you have picked up a Wanyama? We’ll never know.
For now we have to hold our breath on Coquelin’s availability for Manure. About midway through the first half, he was turned easily by one of the Greeks near the top of the box, and it sure looked like he was hurting, and shouldn’t have been in there. But the cupboard is bare. Let’s hope that our now only CD backup (Chambers) can do the job at DM if Coq can’t go, and that leaves us with either Debuchy or Nacho as reserve CDs.
@Trev: you might be interested in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q96M0jRqn7k
No wonder it took Theo (or any other player) so long to recover after doing their ACL! I’ve been watching a few of those videos and I now believe modern medicine is close to magic really.
Food, drink, good people, and Arsenal. The four essentials, ‘Holic. Everything else is a bonus.
No amount of handwringing will change yesterday’s result, bad though it was and a throwback. No Plan B against a parked bus.
Still four must-win games left in the CL, but first we really need a good result on Saturday to restore the spirits.
I must say that I agree almost entirely with Trev. Having also been at the game I did not think Theo was great. He rode his luck massively with the goal and struggled for most of the night. That said, I don’t really think it was his fault. If you play a small winger as your only front man against a big, disciplined defence then of course he will struggle.
The simple fact is that yesterday was an utter shambles from start to finish. From the team selection to the final whistle. Theo was no better or no worse than anyone else. The only quality on display was Sanchez and Ozil. They looked to me to be the only players who actually had any quality. But the failings alluded to by Trev in his first post, and many others are all too evident. The failings that quite frankly have been there for several seasons now. People need to see that for what it is. There are too many that think because we put 5 past Leicester for example, that all of a sudden we are title contenders. Sadly, we are a long way short of that.
Holic, a measured and learned account. I’m genuinely sorry I can’t be with you and others pre Man U. It’s one of the few things that actually keeps me coming back.
Oskar. And if your auntie had bollocks etc…..
Ned. I’m impressed you thought there was a plan A.
Morning GSD. A lot of the same points are made because yet again, they are all valid. Quite simple really, and incredibly frustrating. Still, if we haven’t learnt by now then when will we?
I take it your ref comment was a joke?
Right.
First of all, massive respect to the Guv’nor for managing to write a balanced and measured report in which he didn’t use every invective and swear word ever invented. I could not have done that so quickly after the final whistle.
Second of all, I am still too pissed off to write anything coherent. Will be back later when I am not such miserable company.
The sad part is it doesn’t even surprise or hurt anymore it’s almost expected that we will shoot ourselves in the foot.shambles every couple of games it happens then they roll out all the we had meetings bollox,we’ve been undone by lesser Teams in Europe year on year now some serious questions need to be asked of the manager,untouchable my hole someone needs to fucking stand up to him and ask him wtf is going on.I love him myself but it’s beyond a joke now.the transfers too it’s unreal.
We’re not good/physically strong enough. Boss wasn’t hurting enough in his posty. Stadium is a morgue. Club is sick. Owners don’t care. FA Cups papered over the cracks. Simples. Europa League could expose the whole house of cards if squad breaks and can’t mount the usual late season recovery for CL spot. Especially if AW does a Rafa and decides he wants to win the damned thing….
Did somebody say koscielny is injured?
🙁
I blame BT sport for what is happening to us in the CL
😆
Gudmrn holics. I’ve posted this on Positively Arsenal dis morning, a safe haven 4 d madness in times such as this. This is also my first time to contribute to d drinks although I’ve been reading ur musings 4 about or over a year now, and it’s been pleasant and thoughtful. More power to ur elbow.
After all the elation and promise Saturday gave us.. To loose like this is numbing. I’d like to highlight a few things abt wat I’ve noticed 4 a while on days when we play teams dt defend in numbers and give away little space.
1. I think it’d help if Sanchez tries to make off the ball runs instead of coming to receive the ball to dribble inside or looking for a pass when he is our most dangerous attacker. He needs to be in the box when we are faced with dis kind of challenge.
2. Ozil can do better than he does. As our playmaker, I feel he has to take more responsibility in d sense that he can’t just keep doing the simple thing he does all the time like the one touch passes n coming to the left wing to look for a cross when d tallest person in our d box is Theo. Perhaps it would be better to try and playmake 4rm the right which I think will help him to penetrate better and have the option of a defense splitting pass of which Theo, Alexis, and bellerin can benefit from.
3. Gibbs’ is a long way off of challenging Monreal for that leftback spot. Just like The Ox, He seems not to av conviction in both his attacking n defending. Both the Ox and Gibbs look way too predictable and soft mentally.
4. They must cut out the habit of feeling sorry for themselves, embarrassed and downtrodden when it’s not going according to plan. That’s not wat men do. They need to look hard at themselves in situations like this, talk to themselves, readjust and step up their game instead of just trying to rush the ball inside the net. It seems we forget our game plan once we r in an awkward situation even with much time . It hasn’t bn a successful approach as far as I can tell. A game is not over until after 90 mins.
5. I believe the boss has to be frank with the team. They put him in an uncomfortable position more often than not with their shallow performance and that’s considering the faith he has put in them. I hope they can respond and kick on from here.
6. To the positive people we cannot allow ourselves to be sucked into the negativity n irritating emotional rambling. The storm will pass. For me, I’ve av decided to ignore all the other social media outlets… Can’t live with the meltdown. There is already much to deal with in my life than letting myself made uncomfortable by some madmen’s incessant grumbling. There was a lot to learn about football yesterday and if we cannot see this even when we loose, y do we watch football games.
Like George said, Nothing left but to keep the faith. Onwards and upwards people, onwards and upwards.
Deeply disappointing.
Failure to select first choice players in a ‘must win game’ (inexplicable).
Keystone coppery at the back (longstanding problem) x3.
Failure to take early chances (recurrent problem).
Lack of drive and leadership (longstanding problem).
Lack of a Plan B (how long have we said that? How many times did we get to the by-line and cut the ball back? How many times did we stretch that defence in the second half?)
The solution lies off the field.
There are players who will improve this squad, who do not play for Real, Barca, PSG, Bayern, Shitteh or the Chavs. They are available if you really want them. We have to improve the squad even if we can’t buy Bale/Benzema/Suarez/Lewandowsli/Reus..
Meanwhile we must play for pride in the remainder of the CL. As Oskar says there is a small chance the results will let us atone for our failures hitherto, but can we win it? CWF.
We also need to thrash the Mancs. Go on Arsenal, surprise us.
Those five “bullet” points at the start of post 80 say it all for me.
Deja Vu.
well it really isn’t that bad…there are still 4 games to play, and games against bayern always provide some confidence/form booster!
Morning Steve.
The points that are re-made are as valid as any others. It is a valid point that you personally make, again, about there being players available who would have added depth to our squad. But it is one I have read many times before.
I understand fully after a result and performance like that the frustration and annoyance that we all share. I also get the anger that some seem to feel. I understand that it is all compounded by issues that many regarded as problems a long time ago now proving to be exactly that and that people are unhappy that nothing was done. All fair, valid and understandable. Just different fans dealing with a crappy night in different ways. I get it.
But, as I said in my post, re-reading the hundredth airing of the same views after a loss is not the ‘most interesting’ read that I have had.
I will further add that it provided none of the salve to the pain of the result that I often find in here.
The ref comment was a throwaway. I was trying to poke some fun at my own bugbear. In the same way that I did not mention anyone in particular, I was simply pointing out the lack of humour and cameraderie, as I saw it, in the drinks. Like I say, I understand the reasons for it and did not want to come over all holier-than-thou, but having watched my recording and then read every drink at 1.45 last night I wished I’d just gone to bed after the report and saved the backdrink for today.
On the ref, none of his decisions affected the game much. But I did not think he was anywhere near good.
Freshly squeezed orange juice on the bar. And I’m brewing some coffee too, for them as wants it.
Steve T – thanks for your support, mate.
Like you, I have sat in the stands supporting – yes, and shouting – Theo Walcott for 10 years, much of which has seen him sidelined through injury and taking long periods to discover his form.
That is not his fault and neither was last night.
But to suggest such utter drivel as “you have an anti Theo agenda” just because I try to give an honest assessment of his performance – and that only in relation to squad strength and alternatives – makes me want to give up.
For what it’s worth, I entirely agree with your own assessment of Theo.
Bath @80 – Spot. On.
When you are depressed all that stems is anger and more of it. I do not know what other emotion can come after a game like that, maybe acceptance if that could be considered an emotion.
The team does not have a leader. It begs the question as to why but there are no answers. We are a bunch of nice guys who play the game in the right way but that does not win you football games, it just makes for a pretty picture when everything goes well.
Was the team selection wrong? well not for me, for these are the very players who were being applauded a few games back, so no it was not the selection but overall lack of organization. I do not understand what on earth was Wenger and Bould doing when it was plain apparent that they should have told the team to be organized than go and commit harakiri.
The 3rd goal was the most glaring example of complete foolishness with everyone out of position and just jogging back, how can you allow a goal within a minute after we score? It reminds me of a certain Norwich away game 2-3 seasons back, same thing then, same now.
I wont be surprised if we beat Bayern, it is atypical Arsenal, then we will lose at home to Zagreb, again typical Arsenal. Arsene Wenger will not win the UCL with Arsenal because we just cannot this way, we need rock solid defense and leaders, at the moment we have neither.
P.S- lvg and shrek will be licking their lips and saying to themselves, give them all the possession they want, we will score on the counter.
GSD,
I always enjoy your posts – the points and the humour.
Sorry to have bored you last night with an extremely frustrated, humourless post match comment. That’s why I don’t normally bother with them.
I did try several times, in my own poor way, to inject a bit of humour into the pre-match drinks. I don’t recall you joining in.
GSD. My day started at 6am yesterday just so I could accommodate family matters and a day’s work. I then headed to the ground to be served up with the same shite, the same basic errors and the same deficiencies that I have been served up for god knows how long. Quite simply I have had enough of feeling like I am being taken for a ride. It frustrates the life out of me to keep making the same point over and over again but it really is that basic. I got home just before midnight. I was up again at 6 to start all over again. You can rest assured that I won’t be alone in that. So, if I and many others are making that commitment, surely it’s not too much for us to ask for the club to reciprocate? Put simply, I’m bored stiff with the same excuses and I’m even more bored with having to accept mediocrity.
Trev. A rampaging Theo out wide and a decent striker??? Now, there’s a thought.
All too familiar, a performance we’ve seen many times before.
There are lots of good shouts above as to what went wrong; a rotation of the goalkeepers, a half fit DM with no available back up (just look at the opposition players queuing up on the edge of our box for the first and third goals), a centre forward who cannot play with his back to goal, listless, disinterested performances from the likes of ozil and Santi, a defence that retains an alarming propensity to shoot itself in both feet.
It was a stinker of a performance, and evidence that we retain a rare ability to self destruct given any opportunity to do so.
I feel weirdly calm about it all. Perhaps it’s because I wasn’t there, paying money, to see it. Maybe it’s because I don’t see a huge difference between qualifying through the group stage of this competition or not. Almost certainly it’s that Utd at the weekend seems the bigger game to me, and I know we’re capable of suddenly swinging back into form just as surely as we’re capable of going to pieces. Such are the joys.
I find it hard to pin last night on individuals. Ozil, who I love, had his worst game in the shirt, but he played well at Leicester. Ox continues to frustrate, but the talent is all there. Theo… having spent all summer shouting that he’ll never be a centre forward, and should play on the wing, I now seem to be in the minority in thinking he’s doing OK. Perhaps that’s because my expectations were low, but the goals are coming, and on another day we might have been celebrating the strike and assist that gave us a vital 2-0 win. Ospina has proved himself a decent back up keeper last season. I’ve no idea what’s got into him this term, but he’ll bounce back, I’m sure.
What worries me isn’t the individuals. It isn’t even the failure to add to the outfield first team squad in the summer (although that was clearly an error – I don’t think a single soul in the bar can have doubted as much). It’s the fact that for a second season running we seem to have started half baked, and lacking focus. The advantage of not making a ton of signings should have been cohesion. Instead, it’s proved quite the opposite, and there hasn’t even been an international tournament to base it on.
Despite it all, there’s still much to play for. We could top the league this weekend and I wouldn’t put it past us to wriggle through in the champs league. I’m not so close to the end of my own personal rope as many others seem to be. But we do need to get our heads out of our backsides quickly, because I think every single one of us is sick of watching the same old cock ups time and again. All teams have their ups and downs, so do most seasons. I understand that. But it would be nice if our “downs” felt a little less self inflicted.
Still, beat Utd and I will forgive it all.
COYG
Wonder if they used the pythagorean theorem?
“Still, beat Utd and I will forgive it all.” Absolutely, N7, and I don’t think it is at all beyond us to “wriggle through in the champs league” either. Well written as always.
I’ve now seen the bitesize version of last night’s game. I’m not unhappy that I donated my tickets to a better cause last night. I think that game might have put me off Sunday’s pre-match pasta and that would, most certainly, not have been a good thing.
Thanks N7 for pretty much expressing exactly how I felt about last night in your post. Excellent stuff.
Just to touch on another theme, as noted by others above, I asked on here at the end of last season that whoever Arsene bought in the Summer that at the very least one should be a leader. The names McLintock, Adams, Keown & Vieira were referenced as examples of individuals with the drive and passion to inspire, cajole or hand out bollockings as required during the course of matches across the season.
The fact that Arsene didn’t buy anybody save for a keeper, never mind a leader, suggested that he wasn’t reading Goonerholic as often or as closely as I might have hoped. And we are paying the price.
Would any of those players mentioned above have allowed us to switch off so completely that we concede in the minute after equalising? Of our current squad, only Arteta gets anywhere close to true leadership status and he is obviously not going to be getting much game time.
Frankly I don’t care whether a January purchase improves the technical quality of our squad or not – as long as he has some balls and is prepared to swing them.
UTA.
With all due respect Holic if that was a “wake cup call” have we been hitting the snooze button for the last few years? (in the CL at least)
Dreadful performance but we need to get back in the saddle on Sunday. Can we go top with a big win? The sun will come out tomorrow…..
well
we proper shit in the fuckin nest there
can only imagine
how delia , steve T and trev musta felt
being there
cos
i had the fuckin house roared down
but
what can we can do but
BRING ON THE MANCS
.
UP THE ARSENAL !
That’s right CBA
Another crack at the whip!
Let’s ave it!
🙂
Fair enough Steve. I have never disagreed with any of that in the past and I do not disagree now.
Trev. Thanks. And no apology ever necessary. It was nothing aimed at you, or anyone else, in particular. Just the cumulative effects of a lot of frustrated and rather dry posts. It’s not like you don’t do more than your bit to keep us all smiling!
Santi is a top man. He is no leader. Pity. We need one. Or three.
What portended this tragedy? Should we not have foreseen it?
I blame the red moon.
Never an auspicious omen, even though you would imagine that the colour might favour us.
Did we pay too much attention to the light touches of Aristophanes when we should have anticipated the hidden wide runs of Sophocles and Euripides?
Maybe too many Gooners were inside using their computers when if they had been outside on their cell phones they might have looked up at the right moment and caught a brief sighting of the red moon before it slipped behind a cloud. Then at least we would have been aware of the portents.
Scores
Once in a red moon bath scores. Is it a good portent?
Thanks for the killer pass bt8.
Here’s hoping it’s a favourable omen for Sunday when I shall be in the congregation. :0)
No, it was all of those greek jokes which come back to bite us in the bun!
🙂
Well in by the way bath. Well, in mate! 🙂
Watch the game till 2.30 in the morning and then take another half an hour tossing about on the bed, before you finally dose off with a heavy heart …..hit work place the next morning at 8.30 am … has been the pattern for the past 11 years now ….. sometimes i wonder if this is all worth it . It’s the Hope that kills you . Life as an arsenal supporter !!!!
fuck being in the congregation bath
a man wi yer ability should be on the field sunday
get yer boots down from the top o’ the wardrobe
” Yer up , sunshine! “
I’ll tell you how it felt, cba,
it felt quite a lot – no, it felt exactly – like it did against Monaco at home last year.
There we were, not playing well but YES!!!, we’re back in it at 2-2. We can do this now – the winner will come – we’re making chances – a bit of composure from someone and it’s all back on track.
Less than one minute later – Olympiakos have the ball and break down our left hand side. Where is our defence ? The midfield have bombed on – no-one holding – full back struggling for position – no-one stops the cross, as usual – easy tap in right in the middle of our goal …….
SILENCE …. DISBELIEF …. ANGER …. RAGE …. RESIGNATION …..
SURPRISE.
Actually NO surprise.
Faith is probably the strongest force in the world. I will not lose faith on Arsenal ever and yes come sunday i will again say we will win. Yet the eternal hope remains that we move to the next level or the promised dream land as it looks like.
All too familiar, a performance we’ve seen many times before.
And that’s just in the drinks.
I think both of the teams that were picked to play against Zagreb and Olympiacos were good enough to get a result. Loosing to both of those teams had nothing to do with players that we didn’t purchase during the summer.
We didn’t approach either game with any sense of urgency. We were flat, created nothing and got caught time and time again in defence.
The chasm that exists between Wengers pre match comments and the eventual flat, nonchalant and complacent performance on the field – points to a culture of acceptance at the club that enables these mistakes to be repeated without any lessons being learned or consequential actions being taken. In short, its a serious problem with the management and in particular, the defensive management of the team.
And its been a problem for years and years now. Our record in qualifying has been superb but our overall performance in the CL has been very poor by the standards we set ourselves. Quite frankly, we fall way too short for a club of our stature and history.
Joe, At least we need to be pushing forward with the sense of urgency you describe but we are slipping backward and I don’t like the feeling. The players need to grab the game by the scruff of its neck, hold on for the entire game, and do it consistently. Not too much for fans to ask!!
Trev
I too felt the awful similarity to Monaco. You were aware during the game that we were making an average team look much better than they were and the ability to drag defeat from the jaws of victory…or at least respectability was terribly familiar. On the tube home I saw a mate who wondered whether the Monaco goal occurred more quickly after the Ox goal than theirs did last night after the Sanchez goal.
One other similarity was the goalkeeper. I found myself underwhelmed by Ospina with his efforts at stopping the third Monaco goal. In the last three home games in which I have watched him he let in a Gomis header because of excessive slowness to react, that required the video to confirm it was over the line, came for a West Brom corner that he got nowhere near that Mcauley headed in and then spilled a long shot in the last minute which flew out of his hands onto the bar. And then last night’s party piece. I’m rapidly forming the view he is up there with George Wood, Malcolm Webster and Geoff Barnett. But possibly not quite as authoritative.
a fuckin fiasco trev
and thunder T too
forgot to include you
nightmare indeed
like most
my emotions go through me hat at games
hard one to keep any composure
last night no doubt
CBA
Certainly was- as I get older I seem to take football increasingly seriously
Interesting to see the Fa’s reasons for overturning Gabriel’s red card against Chelsea. In summary:
Arsenal submitted nine video clips, five exhibits and five photographs to support their appeal, and one particular video clip gave a clear view of Gabriel’s ‘kick’ which showed only slight contact with Costa
Mike Dean claims he witnessed the kick first hand and deemed it worthy of a straight red card
An independent three-man panel disagreed with Dean and judged Gabriel’s kick didn’t use ‘excessive force or brutality against an opponent‘
Therefore, the incident fell short of violent conduct as defined by the laws of the game and Gabriel should NOT have been sent off.
The interesting thing is Dean’s insistence that he saw the kick and it merited a red card. One can see from his position at the game that he did not and could not have , given what actually transpired. This won’t improve Holic’s humour but it is important to prick the ego of that odious little man Dean. So why did he send Gabriel off having resisted the opportunity to punish Costa appropriately?
Is he incompetent, biased , so smitten of Mourinho that he wanted to curry favour, dishonest , or has he got a negative agenda against Arsenal.
All questions worth asking in the light of this evidence
Interesting information there TTG. There is little doubt from a significantly sized sample of Dean refereed Arsenal games when compared with a control group of games against the same teams refereed by others that our win rate is significantly reduced in his games.
You have covered all the possible explanations. My own preferred explanation is subconscious bias based on some childhood experiences or prejudice. As I am sure you are aware, we all have these biases/prejudices and unless explicitly confronted with them, continue to display that behaviour.
Incompetence would result in a more random pattern. The others should render him unqualified for our matches as should the existing pattern unless investigated, proven to be subconscious and rectified by an ‘awareness course’.
ordinarily the root cause of someone’s cuntery
holds little or no interest for me
but
yer man’s an interesting one
ineptitude and one or two of yer other suggestions
aren’t mutually exclusive
he could have a lottle from column A
and a little/lottle from columns B,C and D
cba@107, thanks for the offer but sadly my knees and ankles would no longer stand up to it. :/
not that my singing is much good either but I do my best to contribute some noise.
bath?
more angle grinder than angel?
i have no doubt ye are just being modest
*pinocchio nose grows*
😉
Evening all.
Big thanks for just about keeping a lid on it today. Emotions were a bit raw all round, and perfectly understandably.
Now to peruse the radio guide in a bid to find something to keep me away from the Manchester clubs.
Good attempt at a measured post Guv! Respect to you for that!
That was utterly shite and yet again, tinged with something perennially and intrinsically wrong with the side under Arsene. Missing out of group qualification might actually change this status quo at long last.
You could always take up knitting, H.
I’m gutted Sky have chosen not to schedule football league fixtures opposite Champions League games this season.
no need to ask
how yer singin’ voice is ‘hol
oftentimes in the wee wee hours here
when i’m sweeping up
changin’ the hay bedding in the stalls
i find meself wondering
if i’ve left a window open somewhere
as i’m treated to
the nightingale like
sam cookesque trills
of yerself
all alone
emptying the slop trays
amazing
cheers for letting me work here
god bless
UP THE ARSENAL
I have the perfect voice for a broken radio, cba 🙂
Before the fags took their toll a much younger me could do mean Lionel Rich Tea and Mark Knob Flower impersonations…
I’ll let you into a secret Dan. When at home I am writing the match as it happens so the gut wrenching feel at the end doesn’t really come into it. I didn’t hit the publish button within two minutes of the final whistle, as on Saturday, but I think it was no more than twenty minutes last night. That was before the full anger filled my veins.
Thanks though. It’s appreciated.
Comes to something when you need the Manchester sides to win to ensure we keep four clubs in the Champions League.
aaaahhhhhh
‘holic
hiding yer light under a full skip o blackbushels
“Coooo eeeee Mr Shifter”
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgzEBLa3PPk
🙂
you um it sun al play it
*leaves a window ajar*
*hopes for ‘holics majestic windpipes to return*
.
the rest o’ you cunts can behave
cos i’d stroll through youse to get to a fight
.
“sssssshhhhh”
“i think I heard the boss warming up his warbler”
Righteous anger is the prerogative of a good supporter. There are many on here who are proper supporters who love the club with a passion and results and performances and the general way things have been handled this season need to be called into question.
It’s not disloyalty to want to see your club run properly nor to challenge Wenger’s calls if you feel you they are wrong. Many of us are invested financially in the club, all of us have a huge emotional investment. So many things this season have annoyed different people particularly the lack of activity in the transfer market, but the regular concession of similar, sloppy goals, struggles at home against very average teams and tactical naivety against the best clubs are also huge frustrations.
I will never take it out in the stadium against the team but I reserve the right to analyse the good and the bad with those whose views I respect in places like this. The Guvnor’s measured and proportionate responses provide the right climate for proper discussion and unless you have a season like the Invincible season it is inevitable that at times there will be criticism of players, tactics, recruitment, ownership and all the things that go into supporting a football club.
I’d venture to suggest if last night didn’t upset you or the Chelsea debacle didn’t infuriate you, you’re a funny sort of supporter . On this board I detect that everyone wants the best for the club, we just can’t decide how to achieve it. But that’s the beauty of following a club and we follow a pretty wonderful one all things considered. But the day I stop caring about results or performances or things I don’t agree with at the club will be the day I relinquish my season ticket.
🙂
anyhoo
.
gonna
salt n vinegar the bollocks off me chips
and feed the arse off me face
.
cheerio
Walcott is player of the month: http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150930/walcott-is-vitality-player-of-the-month
Well deserved me thinks, he scored in every game bar Chelsea.
Lady luck owes us big time. A deviated OG, a clanger from our most reliable GK in a long time and 3 consecutive piledrivers on target stopped miraculously. Add to that the valid victory goal denied against Liverpool and the red card going to the wrong team at Chelsea it’s about time these balanced gets restored.
Breaking my own rule…
#128 That was me. 🙂
You are what is known as a top fella.
TTG, you should be doing the blog.
Thank you. That is a great drink.
Holic
No more than you deserve mate. This is the last bastion of sanity left in Arsenal World most of the time
Ttg@131: Never a truer word. Top drink.
TTG @ 131
Well said, sir.
The ‘agenda’ I was referring to, Trev (#85), was the wish to be deemed right with regard to the contention that Theo isn’t up to the job which characterised a lot of debate (by a number of drinkers, not just yourself) in the latter stages of last season when Theo had just returned from injury. To pursue the theme after a game in which Theo was one of our better players (one of the best two with Sanchez, imo) seems a bit much. In fact by scoring in practically every game in which he’s started he’s been one of our best this season. That might not actually be saying a lot given the disappointments so far, but time to give the guy a break I suggest, and perhaps give someone more deserving the benefit of your usually excellent analysis. Our No11, for example. Now I can understand how you may wish to leave the critiquing of him to me (until poked by Cynic), but fixing on Theo when Özil (and others) were demonstrably worse, well that smells of agenda.
Also, may I take the opportunity to enquire as to the health of Trevette? I’m sure everyone here is hoping for the best in her regard.
Öskar
Well thundered, TTG (#131). 🙂
Öskar
TTG @ 131. You nailed it sir – top post.
Congratulations Theo, deservedly our player of the month.
Öskar
Yes indeed Ttg, nice post.
Trev: I felt everything you have said in relation to Theo of late was absolutely spot on. Much more measured that anything I could ever manage given how I feel about him but accurate and rational nonetheless. The stats saying that he scored a goal in each game don’t tell the full story. They don’t tell you about the myriad of chances he invariably has to miss before one goes in nor do they tell about his overall contribution to games.
@TTG: You may call it righteous anger but from where I sit some of it looks a lot like entitlement. Yes we’re all upset but it’s time we understand the days of so-called easy games are past us. Training methods, tactics, scouting networks, use of stats etc are levelling up across all clubs in Europe. Even money will level up to an extent in the premiership with next year’s TV rights.
The days of invincibles are long gone when we had 10 times the budget of some opponents, when the drinking culture was pervasive in most clubs, when rigorous scientific training was novelty. Season after season there will be more, not less of those “small” teams hitting a patch of form and getting results against the bigger ones.
I don’t mind it from fans, everyone is entitled to their opinion and their frustrations but I rage to see this entitlement on display during games. The manager who tries his luck with 6 non-starters, the players who wait until the danger zone to put a shift and the audience (for this is what it is nowadays) who bar a small minority turns against the team from the start.
Instead of watching last night’s shambles live I accepted a free ticket to see ‘The Red Lion’ which is on at the National Theatre in London. I was invited along after the ticket’s original owner dropped out as the play is about football and I seemed the guy to ask.
It was excellent. I am no theatre critic and I’m not going to tr
…try to be, but if anyone has the chance to go I can thoroughly recommend it. I found it a riveting watch and had a really good time.
If anyone does get along to it then I’d love to hear what they think. Cheers.
Joe – Strikers are in the side to score goals, he’s scoring goals. Unlike certain other players, who either play as striker or as supposedly attacking midfielders.
If he plays shit for the rest of his career and scores every time he starts, I’ll take it.
I’m also signing up for the TTG fan club. An excellent post and one I agree whole heartedly with.
You said ” On this board I detect that everyone wants the best for the club, we just can’t decide how to achieve it.” Again I agree totally. However I would suggest that what we consider to be the best and what the board do may be two different things. From our seats we want the team to play well and challenge. The board in my opinion view the club purely as a business. The emotions you describe I know only too well. Do you think Stan or Ivan feels the same? I’m not convinced it comes even close.
Football has changed. Matt may be right that some fans feel they are entitled to vent their frustration at matches. Like it or not, they are. This is not the good old days anymore. Following your beloved side is a very expensive hobby. Just ask Trev how much his seat on Sunday would cost to sit and watch a game that’s on TV, or easily accessible for free on a stream?
Football is a business. To some it is nothing more than a money making opportunity. We pay vast sums to support that business and to support our team. But we are not treated as fans anymore. We are customers. Those who attend regularly are all customers. Football has seen to that. As a result there are many that will be more than happy to make their feelings known if the product they are paying for is not up to scratch. It is not something I like at all but the game has changed. You make your bed? You lay in it.
Joe: Here’s some stats to help you reassess your “full story” http://metro.co.uk/2015/05/27/stats-show-arsenals-theo-walcott-is-premier-leagues-most-lethal-finisher-5217633/
His shot conversion ratio is almost twice Alexis’ for comparison.
@Steve/148: Yes to everything. I paid the equivalent of a season ticket to attend one game so yes it’s an expensive hobby for many. As you said we’re customers and Arsenal plc delivered a ticket for my money as they agreed. The rest depends on our own expectations but it wasn’t in the contract.
Speaking of Ivan I expect him and his team to deliver what they are paid for and they fell really short last season again. We have the biggest fan base in the world along with RM, Barca and Man United but our commercial revenue is behind clubs like Liverpool, Dortmund and Juve. The situation would be quite different with 20-40M more in the coffers every season. I hope the AST will broach the subject more forcefully.
Matt. You didnt pay all of that hard earned money for a small piece of paper. The ticket allows you entry to view the main show. A performance played out by talented and very wealthy individuals who are joined by a full supporting cast.
What are Ivan and his team expected to deliver? As I said above, what we expect and what the board expect may be two totally different entities. The board I feel are driven by profit and the balance sheet. I have very little confidence when it comes to the football side of the club. That’s why Arsene has the role he has and is allowed to do practically what he wants to do. There isn’t one person on the board who is even remotely close to having the football knowledge that Arsene has.
When considering the board, consider one thing. If Arsene was to suddenly decide that he had had enough and that he would leave at Christmas, would anyone actually be confident in this boards ability to select a new manager? Do you think they already have a contingency plan, just in case? Apart from the obvious names that will be banded around by the rags and the bookies, I think they will be clueless. There sadly is the problem from the football side of things.
The fact is that Arsene’s genius is the board’s dream. Regular Champs Lge with all the financial rewards and for very little outlay? He supports their business model perfectly. It’s only us fans that sit and wonder why we are treated to more one offs than ever before. Love him or hate him, Arsene has not been the same in the transfer market since David Dein left. Arsene lost his friend and a highly efficient right hand man.
Just my opinion.
@Steve: we’re in total agreement up to the frequency of the one offs. If you look at the Dynamo and Olympiacos managers post-match comments both teams were fully ready after a complete analysis of our strengths and weaknesses. They have good players too. This is a new development. All it takes is a concentration lapse of a key player (Giroud & Ospina) or a collective one (defending on the third goal) and a bit of luck (Ox deflection). Before we used to get back in these games but it’s becoming harder every passing season. Competitiveness is on the up everywhere and even more so in the premier league. Champions used to flirt with 90 points, in the coming decade it’s going to be much closer to 80.
No game can be taken for granted any more, not at Arsenal, not at any other top clubs. Considering all the money spent by our competitors their trajectory this season is eye-opening.
Cheers H!
Football has changed. Not just on the pitch. The demographic of the ‘audience’ has changed markedly, with a corresponding shift in attitude. One thing remains constant, the anger and disappointment at a crap result.
‘Loyal supporters!’ or ‘Over land and sea’ has been replaced by in-depth analysis of the club’s accounts and never-ending theories of match day tactics based on buying the requisite players to deliver such theories.
I’ve done the better or worse thing before. Impossible to say, its just different.
I love reading this site but rarely contribute, mainly because I type like a camel.
However, I am perturbed by the extreme reaction to this defeat. It was a game we should have won, certainly on paper. Had the Ox scored early on, as he should have done, we could have won easily. We don’t know. We did defend badly and there were some bad individual errors. The manager made some changes again and I applaud his courage in doing so. In the summer there was general agreement we had a squad good enough to challenge for the title with good cover in all positions, so he is right to use the squad fully. It is a very long season!!! We eulogised the team on Saturday for a brilliant performance and likewise last Wednrsday, when we won at Spurs. We must not forget that and instead get right behind the team for Sunday’s match. Win that one and we are on our way in the title race. Lose it and then we use the international break to lick our wounds and regroup.
We can still qualify for the next Champions League phase, but if we don’t , we get behind the team in all the other competitions and judge them at the end of the season, and not after each game.
COYG and come on you Gooners.
Devon Stu
Great post- that’s exactly what most of us will do but the right to air concerns here is important and that is what we are doing. The big concern is the ‘ déjà- vu’ effect. Watching Arsenal is to see the same mistakes perpetuated especially in Europe and this is why Tuesday was so particularly depressing. We have lost poorly to teams that Bayern swatted away.
Which brings me to Matt’s post which also raises a great point. Matt, you may remember I wrote a piece on here in the summer about the age of entitlement. Wenger has created a situation in which we automatically expect success. But the amount of money in the game is generally used by clubs to improve their squad and coaching ability. The feeling persists, well articulated by Steve T above, that this board, particularly this owner is very content with the status quo. I think the Lord Harris outburst in the summer was an orchestrated piece of PR executed clumsily which backfired. Every few months the Board underlines that Wenger is the one with the curb on spending when I am pretty certain Kroenke is delighted to increase revenue so substantially without notable expenditure. It is a huge cash cow for him, surely the best investment he can ever have made. Wenger is a very conservative man with the ability to deliver a level of success entirely acceptable to this Board. The question we need to ask about Wenger is whether there will come a time when his remarkable powers diminish, his appetite reduces and his intuition, because that is his greatest quality, starts to fail. Nights like Tuesday and the almost certain breaking of our record of qualification in Europe cause us to look more closely at him in case it is starting to happen. Being of a similar age, I know it will happen to him one day.
Football has changed. Matt may be right that some fans feel they are entitled to vent their frustration at matches. Like it or not, they are. This is not the good old days anymore
Nothing has changed, fans always have and always will boo players they don’t like, sing for the manager’s head when results are rubbish, boo when the performance is poor etc etc. Always have done, at all levels of the game.
The camels are bloody articulate in Devon…
Raises an interesting question (for me) though.
Has the gentrification of football been going on so long that emotional behaviour, negative and angry as well as positive and happy clappy, is now looked on as odd when it is actually part of going to a game and getting involved with your team?
Is moaning, booing or whatever now being viewed somewhere along the lines of rustling sweet papers at the cinema?
In other words, are the people who go to football nowadays really behaving much more like day trippers who don’t want their fun spoiled, rather than the passionate manbeasts of old? 🙂
I am not saying they are, merely asking questions. But sometimes it does sound a bit like, “I went for a nice evening out and these rotters kept talking all the way through the aria!”
Morning,
If you can even stomach it, check out 100% Che*sea on YouTube.
They are ranting and raving about the same things.
Fans being passionate about their club.
🙂
Huge game Sunday. No one running away with this Premiership. Be criminal to lose and be falling out of it one game in to October.
4 of 5 games against so called “big 6” at home pre-Xmas. 4 of 5 away during the run in. Can’t get to the new year with much if any ground to make up really.
9 points should see us through the champions league group. We all know we can beat Bayern when they’ve already qualified. Still fancy is to stagger in to Barca round of 16 and fight valiantly and get brutally clubbed in some combination over two legs.
For the second year running, we haven’t got out of September before it’s glaringly obvious we made a complete hash of the transfer window. It was Monreal and Debuchy at centeback as we dribbled goals and points away last year. Some combination of Giroud and Arteta as we struggle to score and defend whilst praying Coquellin plays all 60 games this season I reckon. Ho hum. That is what it is. Time to fight like mad for the rest of this season and see where it gets us. Be nice if the players wanted to join in to.
Ps: love Ozil, but shit teams who come to ours and sit 2 deep in midfield can’t take him out the game every time so easy. Got to reclaim the middle with some strength and skill rather than drifting to where they’d like him to be wide and deep.
158 – my great grandfather went in the 1930’s, a golden age I’m told. According to my nan who he took after the war, having lost his only son he took his youngest daughter, he would spend the whole game shouting at whichever player he didn’t feel was putting in enough, “where’s your handbag xyz!” over and over. My understanding is that it wasn’t really the done thing then on the terrace to tell someone else what they could and couldn’t say, so on he went for decades like that. Obviously made him happy, he adored the club and went to Highbury til they buried him.
Great posting EP. I agree with all of 160. Lots of good points, especially Ozil’s positioning in some games. He was often in Santi’s deep position a couple of nights ago.
And 161 is a proper club tale which I thoroughly enjoyed. Cheers!
@ Cynic
Interesting theory, but my own experiences in the stadium over the last decade suggest the precise opposite; the day trippers are often the most vociferous in expressing their displeasure when they find themselves watching a poor performance on their big day out. That said, that’s purely anecdotal and I’m wary of any attempt to generalise about those who moan/cheer. There are plenty of old school fans on here who do each of the above. Sometimes within the same 90 minutes.
Good discussion about the right to criticise above. I agree with the general thrust that it’s totally legit for people to have their say and express their frustrations. My only real irritations are as follows: (a) people who only show up in the bar after a defeat to blow some extra wind into the sails of a long running campaign to ditch the manager, never offering humour or any sort of daylight; (b) people who suggest that failure to react with a moan means you care less; and particularly (c) posts that begin “as I’ve been saying for months now/as I said in the summer” – no one on here is some sort of expert or has the inside line, we all comment constantly and every now and then some of our comments are vindicated – stopped clocks and all that. You very rarely see people wander in here and go “hands up – I got that one all wrong, didn’t I”, and being right on the Internet must rank as one of life’s most lowly achievements. I feel the bar’s a happier place when there’s a little less ego riding on the discussion.
The criticisms I’m most interested in reading are from those who attended the game, because the perspective from the stadium can be very, very different to TV.
All just my tuppence worth, your mileage may vary.
COYG
Cynic@158, good question. As N7 observes, it is difficult to generalise. My season ticket seats in the North Upper are surrounded by good people who love the club dearly, know their football and generally join in the chants and never join in the boos. They very rarely leave early.
However I do occasionally sit elsewhere and the mood and behaviour there differs markedly. The West Upper in my experience is as quiet as a morgue.
My two experiences of Club Level led me to believe that while there are real fans there, the corporate element are more interested in the ‘experience’ than the game. Not a surprise really.
On the other hand, the atmosphere and the crowd are very different from those of the old North Bank, as recently as the mid 90’s.
Some excellent drinks above, Steve T, TTG, N7, bath, Matt @152, and
Joe @143, thanks. Glad someone ‘gets’ my views on Theo in the spirit that was intended.
Esso – hope you’re well, mate. Your ability to summarise has to be unsurpassed.
Oskar – thanks for asking. Trevette is cleared of anything serious but minor upsets continue – thankfully rarely.
When is it allowable to criticise?
At the beginning of a season when it is already obvious after half a dozen games that previous weaknesses have not been addressed. No – let’s see where we are after 10,15 games or at Christmas.
During the January transfer window? No – wait until it closes and see who we have (not) bought.
After the window closes? No – there’s nothing we can do about it now, let’s just get behind the team.
During the second half of the season when the title and the champions league are clearly beyond us? No, the time for criticism is at the end of the season when we see where we end up.
At the end of the season? No, let’s see who we (don’t) buy in the Summer.
And repeat. And repeat. Etc.
Probably the single most common mistake prevalent on the Internet today is to confuse criticism of your views with an attempt to silence (or not “permit”) them.
Cynic. It’s quite simple in my opinion. With the massive increase in cost just to watch a game comes an increase in expectation levels. You get what you pay for type thing. When you paid just a few quid at the turnstile people were a tad more tolerant I would suggest. When you are paying £120 for a seat at a Cat A games those tolerance levels are somewhat reduced. For that kind of expenditure you expect something in return. If that is not forthcoming then many will feel a lot more entitled to vent their anger, and in ways of their choosing. That may not sit well with many of us but that’s the way it is. Again, something that the club and football are effectively responsible for when choosing the money option.
You can get a season ticket at Bayern for £200. That may just be a reason why fans in Germany are a lot more supportive on match days.
Seldom were Portuguese language experts so in demand.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34408794
That is all.
Except to say Mourinho is a cheat and a scummy piece of filth.
bt8,
I do enjoy the calling in of these linguistic experts by the football authorities to opine on the finer points of Uruguayan colloquialism and the thorny question of race or Jose’s use of the word “whore” in relation to the fragrant Dr Eva.
Someone, somewhere is having a larf
Anicoll5. I would say it is high time for the footballing authorities to start hiring a few more experts to parse the dialects of North Yorkshire and other obscure parts of the British Empire before sending all their money to hire experts in other languages but that of course is only my opinion and not worth the computer screen it is written on. 🙂
@SteveT
Bang on – the pricing most definitely has an influence on behaviour.
Through much of the dross I watched in my first 20 years of following the club, I did n’t give a fuck – apart from the actual result. Because; I had n’t had to plan getting a ticket months in advance, entry to the stadium (home or away) was cheap as chips, and so was the ale in them days. Plus there were other aspects to the entertainment back then.
Now when I go, its after a supreme effort logistically, first to get match tickets, then to arrange travel as cheaply as possible, and its turned into (if take the bin lid(s)) a near enough £200 day out. My reaction will always be as it is ” oh dear, what a shame, never mind, is the pub still open!”, possibly because of the past experience described above. Quite understand others having a different reaction, I just get bored listening to them.
ABW
nice one
Quality comments all around tonight!
The ticket price and commitment needed certainly play a role to the global mood, no doubt. That said I don’t find the reactions from the armchair audience to be much different. Not getting into possible causes I’ve noticed that context has become irrelevant and the team/manager/club is judged exclusively on its last game with an ever increasing passion. The era of the instant is upon us, social media channels the clamour. It is what it is.
Now I fully accept that Kroenke couldn’t care less about soccer. Doesn’t look like a cash cow (and I don’t think he needs it either) more like a long-term investment. He’s confident his investment will flourish under the current management and doesn’t interfere much if at all.
On the other hand Arsene is a born competitor nearing the end of his career and I’ll bet my first born he has a massive hunger to cement his legacy. It’s not possible to count on the CL for that, too many imponderables and the circumstances are unfavourable to english clubs at the moment with a much more competitive league, more games and refereeing more permissive than on the continent requiring too much adaptation. Now I’m sure Arsene’s eyeing the league and maybe even more so the century old record of 3 FA cups in row.
Do we have the team to do it? Does he believe we do?
By all accounts we’re missing 2 pieces of the jigsaw in the summer: a striker and a DM. Since Theo was bought Arsene has touted him as a striker. He believes in it and that’s obviously his plan for the season. Some may not see it and the jury is still out after a promising first month with a goal per game average. And no other striker moving around in the summer has done better so far. Time will tell. I’m a believer so I’m inclined to think it is the right decision and Giroud is a very decent backup. You may not agree to it but at the very least it’s an understandable decision by Arsene who’s done it before.
As for the DM it’s more puzzling. We tried to flog Flamini to Turkey in July but the rumours went full stop in August, which is when we knew it wasn’t going to happen. We didn’t move for Kondogbia (who’s struggling to adapt at Inter btw) nor Schneiderlin (not a DM) nor anyone else and we’re left with Flamteta as cover. I see it too ways. It could be due to the same thriftiness/incompetency/short-sightedness (however you see it) of a few seasons ago, theory which leaves fans bemused since all signs were pointing that we were past it. It’s a distinct possibility that can’t be discarded off-hand, it has happened before.
There’s another theory I’ve been contemplating. There’s a young DM that’s head and shoulders above the rest, who won the player of the tournament award for the under-21 euro and was available to boot until he broke is leg at the end of July, just when the Flamini rumours died. The perfect match that fate made unattainable this summer. If that’s the case and he is our earmarked DM candidate then it makes sense to bet on Flamteta until the player can be bought in the winter window. From my perspective if we get William Carvalho this winter it will all makes sense and all will be forgiven.
Believe what you want 😉
Mike Dean is biased against Arsenal, in case you needed the proof: http://discoveringstatistics.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/the-referees.html
Fantastic drinks, people, even though we are clearly not all of one mind, we can be of one accord. Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wenger era officially over. Awaiting the next version of Arsenal post Wenger. Honour him with a brass plaque at the stadium and let’s move on.