Win or Bust For The Gunners
Nov 23rd, 2015 by 'holic
“In the last two games we have dropped points. We know as well that before that we won five games on the trot and you can go through a spell like that. It is how you respond to that and that is what makes your season. That is why it is a good test for us.”
Arsene is attempting to sound positive ahead of the must-win Champions League match against Dynamo Zagreb, and nobody would have expected anything different. I suspect few would have been surprised at the vagueness of his response to how long Francis Coquelin will be out.
“It is at least a month. I’m a bit cautious as we have had so many bad surprises on the scans, but the team for the next few months will be without Coquelin.”
The Coquelin discussion has raged elsewhere since Saturday so I’ll not add to it here. Mikel Arteta too has been confirmed as a ‘short term’ absentee, but the squad will be boosted by the return of Aaron Ramsey on Tuesday night. A cold, wet night might be deemed the acid test of how good a player Lionel Messi is, but I would suggest it is the worst possible forecast given the nature of the injury Aaron suffered. A place on the bench, perhaps, for him.
There are other decisions for the boss to make ahead of the match. Does he think Hector Bellerin will be better for the run out on Saturday when he endured a torrid afternoon, or will Mathieu Debuchy get the nod. I said on Saturday I thought Hector should be forgiven his apparent rustiness, but Arsene will have seen the lad’s response in the last couple of days and will make the right call.
Mathieu Flamini will surely slot in alongside Santi Cazorla, but do we start Kieran Gibbs or Joel Campbell? The answer may be decided by which side Alexis feels most comfortable playing. The match is surely of too much importance to consider throwing Jeff Reine Adelaide in for a baptism of fire.
Dinamo come into the game having won their last two domestic fixtures either side of the international break, but their European away form is dreadful as they have lost their last eleven Champions League matches on the road. Definitely missing from the side that beat us 2-1 in Zagreb will be Macedonian international Arijan Ademi, banned for four years after failing a drug test. Dinamo will also be without suspended defender Josip Pivaric after he was sent off in their defeat to Olympiacos.
Mention of Olympiacos necessitates the warning that our result tomorrow will count for nothing if they somehow avoid defeat at Bayern Munich. Such a result would bring about a collective raising of eyebrows, and much more no doubt. Bayern will be professional and win comfortably (he said, nervously). Should the surprise transpire let’s remember it is our fault we are in this situation, nobody elses.
The ‘holic pound
The ‘holic pound has to follow the optimistic route. The bookies favour a 2-0 home win and I’m having some of that at 13/2. For those of you going tomorrow night I hope we can produce a performance that will enable you to keep applauding to warm the hands.
I’ll be behind the sofa watching through my fingers!
82 Responses to “Win or Bust For The Gunners”
Drink!
One for any roots loving ‘holics;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8a206AYHFU
I’ve been rudely interrupted…
you rude boy you
Oxlade can play there.
He’s bloody rugby trained.
Dinamo?
we are wounded animal so don’t look through fingers,
raise one up
The Ox isn’t fit for tomorrow.
Evening Esso. Cheers mate.
It’s all very well AW saying he’ll replace Coq in January, but that’s still more than a month away, plus, being AW, he’ll probably wait till late in January, so that’s two months, plus the newbie will take a while to bed in (while making mistakes among strangers in strange surroundings) so Coq could well be back strutting his stuff before we get MD relief anyway. I won’t bother to repeat what AW should have done about DMF cover long since, which must be obvious even to him by now.
In the meantime, without an obvious fit, we could do worse than try Gabriel in the role, or as a third CD with Kos playing sweeper. I just don’t trust Flimflam to keep his cool for a whole 90 minutes.
Oskar
Excellent preview Holic. Sets the tone and feel for the game nicely.
It’s seems strange talking about what our strongest 11 available will be when we took the decision to rest so many for the away leg? If only the gift of hindsight had been available that evening.
I will be heading to the game tomorrow with my young lady. She had the option of spending her birthday in a nice cosy restaurant with family and friends? Or, heading to The Gove for a must win Champions League fixture. I’m glad she chose The Grove. I’m not so sure that Mrs T thinks the same.
I’m not sure who I expect to play tomorrow night. If Rambo is fit then he has to play some part. If Chambers really is destined to play the holding role then that has to be a possibility. The most likely though has to be Flamini. Now, in what minute will he collect his yellow card???
May catch up with some of you there? Here’s hoping for a convincing win and a resounding Bayern thumping of Olympiakos. With hopefully a few Greek red cards.
Enjoy boys and girls.
In fact playing a sweeper might not be a bad idea anyway given our defence predilection for wandering out of position.
Oskar
Cheers, Holic.
I’ll be watching through my fingers from West Upper, hoping for a decent result but with little optimism that a new DM is going to materialise out of the night sky.
Oskar seems more hopeful and is clearly not impressed with the reasons that CBs can’t play as DMs. The sweeper idea has more mileage in it as our CBs are almost certain to be pulled out of position without Coquelin in front of them.
What a ridiculous situation we are in, again, in November for a club that has winning the Premier League and Champions League as its targets.
I’m not in favour of playing anyone out of their specialist position, Trev, but recognising our weakness without Coq whoever plays in his stead will be targeted, and I believe Gabriel could cope with that pressure better than Flam.
Oskar
Supposing we do beat Zagreb and Bayern beat Oly, what do we have to do to finish second? Beat Oly obviously, but is it GD in the group decides? Or GD against Oly only?
Oskar
Great preview `Holic, good point mentioning young Hector it’s a tough call for Arsene.
The Saturday game was infuriating to watch really. Everything was there, effort, application and a ton of bad luck. An own goal, a missed penalty, a post, the worst miss of the season and 2 DM injured within 15 minutes conjuring to land us the most undeserved loss in years just when a win would have propelled us top. Still reeling over it.
I’m a bit surprised by Arsene mentioning Chambers as a DM candidate but thinking about it he’s probably anticipating Flamini’s likely injury and/or red card after a handful of games.
November is or cursed month historically so I’m not overly optimistic for tomorrow but I have feeling little Miss T will make the difference 😉
Evening H
My thoughts at the beginning of the season were no different to recent previous seasons.
Fighting for a top 4 spot in the league,going hard at the FA Cup as the only realistically winnable Trophy,and bowing out in the round of 16 in the CL.
Nothing i have seen so far,gives me reason to change my mind.
Except of course we could be out of CL at Group stage.
Our injury prone squad,currently held together with a few bits of sticking plaster and a few rusty staples,are as fragile as a fine bone china teapot.
I will be very surprised if we are anywhere near the top of the league after the Christmas/New Year holiday.
Oskar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_UEFA_Champions_League_group_stage#Tiebreakers
1. higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question;
2. superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question;
3. higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question;
4. higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches played among the teams in question;
5. if, after having applied criteria 1 to 4, teams still have an equal ranking, criteria 1 to 4 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams in question to determine their final rankings.
There’s more criteria after that.
@Clive:On the other hand if we are near the top at the turn of the year we’ll have a real chance.
Hanging in there with a decimated team would be a stark difference from previous seasons. With key players coming back we’d be in good shape for the run in.
I was hoping Shad Forsythe would be more influential, I admit to being disappointed at our injury record. I understand not much can be done for Wellbeck, Willshere and Coquelin as these are part of the game. But the recurrence of muscular injuries is a bit depressing.
Apparently, ManUre and Liverpool have more players out injured than we do according to physio room.
It’s more than a bit depressing, Matt. The same players have now suffered those recurring injuries so many times that, particularly at the ages they have now reached, it’s very unlikely that pattern will now change.
It might well be that too much damage has been done for those players to return consistently at the top level.
The obvious solution is tough, very expensive and very unlike Arsene’s usual m.o.
Well Trev it changed for Van Persie although I agree he’s the exception rather than the norm.
As much as I hope we would get Carvalho in the summer, I’m not sure more players is the only solution. I have been wishing for a long time we’d switch to a more measured rotation policy as in rotate one or two players every game rather than half the team at once like we did in the CL. Next year with 2-3 new players on the roster after the departures of Rosicky, Flamini and Arteta it’ll be even more capital to bed them in progressively.
That being said this is the best league I can’t remember since the inception of the Premiership and with more money flowing in next season from TV rights competition will be again on the rise. More quality players in the teams should help cope with injuries and assert our rise to the top.
Fine preview Guvna.
I hope your prediction is correct.
No use crying over spilt milk, fellas. We’ve got to go with whoever is still walking.
COYGs
OTD: should second place come down to the final fixture at Piraeus, Arsenal has to win by any of the following: 0-2, 1-3, or by one goal if Arsenal score 4, 5, etc.
If Arsenal were to be victorious by a 3-2 score, mirroring the scoreline at the Emirates, have no idea how that gets resolved.
Alphabetically, BJ? 🙂
Oskar
Beg to differ with uefa criteria 12 for tiebreaking in Matt’s link. If uefa are bringing in factors that have nothing to do with the merit shown by each club in a given year’s competition, I think they should pick the club with the lower coefficient just for surviving all those hurdles when everything is stacked against the underdog. Tiny point but symbolic in its way.
I have no problem with Chambers in the dm role.
He is young, fit, enthusiastic, a decent tackler and his short passing is ok. His lack of experience is obvious but is no different really to Coquelin before he came back to establish himself in the team.
I think I may actually prefer him at this stage to Flamini.
With Dinamo likely to play only on the break, we must play Gabriel over Mert for this one. In fact, it’s time really for this change to become permanent.
A big one from Santi. 3-0 to the good guys.
UTA.
Gabriel in for me as well. At the press conf. Mert looked/sounded a bit ill.
“As much as I hope we would get Carvalho in the summer, I’m not sure more players is the only solution. I have been wishing for a long time we’d switch to a more measured rotation policy as in rotate one or two players every game rather than half the team at once like we did in the CL.”
Absolutely spot on Matt. A view held by many I would suggest.
As Trev has said on more than one occasion. Sometimes you have to look at certain players and make some adult decisions.
Tonight is a hard one to call. We need to generate positive momentum and stop feeling sorry for ourselves. I get the impression Ramsey will play in the Coquelin role but it’s a calculated risk.
We have to go for it tonight because to lose would undermine morale. I’ve commented before this does not feel like a successful season and that this team is very fragile( in every sense). Time to show character and bottle tonight against a side who have the shadow of drug use hanging over them.. The Holic pound looks to have been shrewdly invested
COYG
Bayonne: in that case it would be overall goal difference, and currently we are four goals worse off than Olympiakos (6-10 vs 6-6) are so we need to win by two tonight and Olympiakos to lose by two for 3-2 to be enough for us to go through on the last day.
Get knocked out of Europe totally and win the league or stick around until the last 16, with a thinning squad, and finish fourth?
Worst case scenario – Europa League qualification by finishing third in the group.
I’m not saying I want to lose, but I’d rather do that and finish bottom than finish third.
Thanks Lars. So if Bayern play like Bayern and put the Greeks to the sword by 3+ goals, simply a win this evening at the Emirates would work on the overall GD front. But there are no guarantees, so this evening’s approach might be to push hard for goals; given the circumstances, may be the only, yet highly risky, way to play.
Chasing goals very rarely works. Just make sure to win the game and then see where that takes us.
On another note: considering how UEFA reacted to Arsene speaking out against doping, expect the ref to do his best to help Zagreb tonight. Arsene has never been a very popular man at the UEFA head quarters and the last few weeks have done very little to change that.
Interesting that no other manager has been reported as having made any kind of comment on AW’s doping comments as far as I can see. Have the hacks been told “Don’t go there?” because it’s standard practice for them to try to spice up pre-match press conferences with, “What do you think of AW’s comments on….”
The silence is deafening.
And then we get a 10 man doping control visit on Friday, out of the blue apparently.
As blogs has said elsewhere, there’s a message there to other managers, speak out and you get an inspection visit.
As Lars observes, there will be no favours for Arsenal from tonight’s referee. Let that be a lesson to you, Wengah!
Good preview, Guv’nor.
I have a foreboding about this game, not eased by the fact we haven’t won two Champions League games on the bounce at the Emirates since 2012. I have an even worse foreboding that Bayern and Olympiacos will manufacture a draw.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they planted drugs on Gunnersaurus, let alone Stunt Double.
#33 in response to bathgooner @31. Really should have left Stunt Double out of it completely.
Nice preview Holic.
Bath…are you suggesting that Wengah is a bit of a dope for talking about dope 😉
Ned…I think four beating (of Dinamo Zagreb) is more likely. Now where’s that bottle of malt disappeared to 😉
Ned: that fear does certainly exist but if so, like the guv’nor says in the preview we have no one but ourselves to blame for finding ourselves in this situation.
A really tough one to call I did watch the presser and laughed my face off when Arsene mentioned the doping visit from UEFA! There you are trying to stamp it out the game so they send us a flipping test unit, what a bunch of Hansens! In the end they say it’s ok if it’s not more than three players, what a joke!
Need a really decent solid performance tonight no question asked and we should still be able to do this with what we have left.
North Bank Red, you mirrored my feelings, specially the game between Bayern and Olympiakos.
I sense ramsey playing a part tonight. I would love to see him play with Santi in the central midfield role but i honestly do not think so he has a defensive bone in him to be successful. Jack is our eventual solution for that position is what i feel. Jack is the player along with Danny who we have missed the most. The energy and drive those 2 bring would have been so crucial in helping us through difficult times.
Some articles in the press suggest it is better to lose this than risk Ramsey. I do not buy into that. We are Arsenal, we play to win every game. 3-0 to the Arsenal tonight. Now can bayern thrash olympiakos as well please.
Glad to have Ramsey back.
I know he is not the answer to our current issue, but he is surely an improvement. His link up play between defence and attack can contribute to the assistance we need to create in midfield at the moment.
I anticipate a Zagreb smacking. I could be wrong, but I hope I’m right. A hard fought win will help get these boys back into the shape needed to continue the March towards success this season.
UTG
Thanks for the preview H’.
What to do, what to do?
Personally I’d go wholesale changes. AW has hinted at Chambers in a DM role (he’s obviously wiped the memory of Soton away last season), well throw him in then, sink or swim, The likes of Debuchy, Gibbs (in his proper position) need game time, they are not going to improve on the bench.
Release the Jeff, try the Iwobi, give Campbell a(nother) taste. We have literaly nothing to lose here, even the most optimistic among us must surely realise that winning the CL is a step too far for this team, I mean, did you all see how Barca completly dismantled Real last weekend? Scary.
I never want Arsenal to lose, NEVER. But we are now in the middle of INJURYFEST 2015™, the fringe players (what’s left of them) must be brought up to speed, we need them match fit for if they are needed in the PL.
Sometimes you just need to prioritise, and I feel we have a much better shot at the PL.
Still……
COME ON YOU GUNNERS!!
H2H. Interesting post. I’ll back you there!
And I really do think Alexis needs a breather.
Cheers Homer.
Enjoy your night Brother Steve, Cousin Trev and all you other ‘holics attending THOF.
Team tonight.
Cech,
Bellerin, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Monreal,
Flamini, Cazorla,
Campbell, Ozil, Alexis,
Giroud
Subs: Ospina, Debuchy, Gabriel, Gibbs, Chambers,
Ramsey, Reine-Adelaide
Cheers H.
bt8 @33 and 34. No worries. Dr. Feelgood has got me sorted anyway. Wink.
Heh @ H2H INJURYFEST.
Doping regulations a joke. Football has much bigger problems than who will play DM for Arsenal.
I expect Flamini to play DM for Arsenal- after a fashion anyway. Who persuaded him that he is Yaya Toure?
I think we’ll win. Even if we go out of the group it would be more Arsenal to do it by winning the last game by too low a margin- there is too much of the drama queen about us to simply lose and go out with a game to spare.
I know that I am in a serious minority here but I like Campbell. If he can get a couple of goals and a bit of confidence then I think he might spark into life for us. He often goes for a safe ball but if he can build the confidence to take more risks I think he has talent. When I think back to the quality of some of the players and teams we have had in the last few years the abuse he gets as a squad player who clearly works his socks off surprises me greatly. “The worst miss of the season, etc” (not that I disagreed with your post Matt or felt the tone was overly harsh) but Theo, OG and Ox have all had ones which spring to my mind as being worse. The line just struck me as representative of a lot of hyperbole about how bad Campbell is from people whose real point is (far more fairly) that Wenger is responsible for our squad depth issues. It is hardly Campbell’s fault we are where we are and he has something of Rambo’s work ethic and refusal to hide. I hope he proves to be made of the right stuff…
Unlike some of our players, who appear to made of coat hangers and bits of old roofing, held together by Shad’s Secret Formula Multi-Purpose Adhesive Spray. The word on the street is that it is just a pressurised bottle of the spit he produces as he chews on menthol chewing gum- but, don’t worry, UEFA are busy testing this theory.
2-0 good guys. UTA.
O.K.
Strongest available team is played, go for it then.
COYG.
Bless your positivity, GSD. 🙂
General alert for a Wilko Johnson profile by Julien Temple on BBC1 at 10.35pm tonight
I know there’s a ton of
old menfans of the Feelgoods on here so there you have it.4-0 Arsenal.
Cheers H, you know me- I think a thunderstorm is a good reminder of how lucky I am to have waterproof skin!
nowt wrong wi being in a minority
i will be frying christmas pudding
wi it’s black and white counterparts
come boxing day
all come sniffing !
now
COME ON YOU REDS
YOU FUCKIN BEAUTIES
48
+1
COYG. Thrash them!
Come on Arsenal!
I don’t suppose the ever resourceful Eandy has a [free] feed handy…?
Two nil to Bayern come on Arsenal
Ozill?!?!?!?
Ozilllll!!!!
Get in there Ozil!
OZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!
made by ALEXIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS!
GET IN!
Sanchez!!!!!!
Sanchez!!!
Aleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexxxxxxissss!
Take that you druggies!!!!!!!!!!
GET INNNNNNNN!
Alexis! Hells YEAH!!
I swear I could hear Little Miss T squeal in delight twice 😉
Flamini has a good game so far, he’s doing a very reasonable Coq impression.
@GSD: You are totally right, my hyperbole on Campbell’s being the worst miss of the season was over the top. I’m not sure I agree with the Ramsey comparison though. Campbell has great feet hence the disappointment for the miss. If we played 442 I think he’d be shining in the Eduardo role. On the wing he’s getting better with time so the jury’s still out.
Ozil is simply amazing to watch tonight!
Ozil is dancing tonight
Matt @64. Cheers for the response. Jury definitely still out.
Matt @65. Agreed.
I was slagging off JC, too. Though I’ve seen little to convince me that substantively that is incorrect, we should be supporting not cutting down our players. Point well taken, GSD.
If JC comes good and bags 15 goals, then I will gladly and voratiously eat crow.
Gilberto has just been introduced to the crowd? Why? Get back into the changing room, get out of that suit and put a bloody kit on.
All going to plan so far. Zagreb look very ordinary. I can’t see any reason at all why we should not push on in the second half.
Lots and lots of empty seats by the way.
COYR
Good performances all round. Second half goals for Joel and HFB would ice the cake nicely along with a clean sheet for Petr.
COYGs
Miss T giving large Matt.
🙂
Did anyone else spot that? Ozil even disguises his throw-ins!
Second goal for Alexis. 3-0.
Dribble it in!
GET IN Alleeeeexiiiiiiiiis!
What a inch perfect pass from Campbell even though he dispensary from the game a little.
Like I was sayin’ – must MUST play Alexis today!
dispensary = disappeared bloody dictionary on iPhone
Need this fourth goal. Come on, don’t let me down.
Well done Arsenal.
And thank you bayern munich.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Poor Sczesny… let in 6 ..although he did make a few good saves too!