At The Boleyn Headless Gunners Falter
Apr 9th, 2016 by 'holic
Arsene Wenger surprised many by sticking with David Ospina in goal for the trip to Upton Park. The Gunners were unchanged from the team that started successive victories over Everton and Watford. What was about to unfold was madness on a grand scale.
So, chronologically the talking points were;
Carroll committed two awful assaults in one ‘challenge’ on Laurent Koscielny. How it was only a yellow card and not a red was a surprise to this admittedly partial observer. To be fair Francis Coquelin avoided censure for his first foul in the immediate aftermath.
In the thirteenth minute Lanzini did find the net only to be denied by an erroneous offside flag, as Hector Bellerin clearly played the goalscorer onside. The officials were setting out their stall for the afternoon, but defensively we would end up matching their incompetence.
Arsenal’s reponse was to take the lead in the eighteenth minute. Nacho Monreal was denied a penalty claim but from the attempted clearance Mohamed Elneny, Coquelin, and Alex Iwobi combined to slide in Mesut Ozil for a cultured finish inside the far post.
West Ham United 0-1 Arsenal
A rapid break ended with Ozil setting up Alexis for a shot that Adrian saved low to his left. As ever it was just delaying the inevitable. Coquelin and Iwobi set up Alexis for another clinical finish. The Gunners were tearing West Ham’s right flank apart.
West Ham United 0-2 Arsenal
West Ham came back with a Cresswell cross and header from Carroll that was comfortably saved by Ospina. It too was a warning shot. The same combination enabled Carroll to head home to bring the Irons back into the game. Arsenal’s entire back four had migrated to the right leaving Carroll on Monreal, a huge mismatch.
West Ham United 1-2 Arsenal
Adrian denied Arsenal a third and the importance of that was evident a minute later when Gabriel blocked a Carroll effort at point blank range but failed to block the striker’s follow-up volley. A comfortable lead had been wiped out in two dreadful minutes at the end of the half and frankly we had only ourselves to blame. I wonder if it crossed the manager’s mind to bring on Per Mertesacker for the struggling Gabriel at half-time?
West Ham United 2-2 Arsenal (half-time)
Controversy wasn’t far away at the start of the second-half as Carroll, lucky to be on the pitch after his early challenge on Koscielny, sent a flailing elbow into Gabriel’s face and referee Craig Pawson bottled the obvious. He did the same moments later when the same player hauled Koscielny to the ground in the box. The loose ball fell to Payet but his finish into an empty net followed the award of the free-kick. No further punishment for Carroll?
It was nailed on that the fortunate Carroll would complete his hat-trick and he duly did. This time the central defenders had left him up against Bellerin at the far post, even then his header was going straight at Ospina until Gabriel, enduring a horrible day, headed it into his own net.
West Ham United 3-2 Arsenal
The Arsenal sent on Ramsey, Giroud and Walcott at various points, did away with his two holding players, and went for broke. Laurent Koscielny scrambled in a bouncing ball and we were level again. Could we dare to dream?
West Ham United 3-3 Arsenal
Carroll again bundled Gabriel to the ground and the Brazilian foolishly lashed out with his boot and was fortunate perhaps that his assailant is more of a hurdler than a sprinter. Again Mr Pawson took no further action.
So that basically was that. We needed a winner desperately, and didn’t get it. West Ham too will have wanted more. It made for a white knuckle ride for supporters of both clubs and everybody in the ground ended up exasperated by the performance of the match officials. That’s no excuse for Arsenal though. The defence showed an amoeba-like lack of spine. West Ham will argue, not unreasonably, that they were actually robbed of a fourth goal. They were.
We came into today’s match needing to win the last seven and praying for Leicester to lose three. That seemed a remote but real possibility. Now they need to lose three and draw one of their last six for us to have any chance. That is not going to happen.
It isn’t the time for damning verdicts, although they would be deserved. This season we had a real opportunity to end the title drought. You don’t win championships by turning up in fits and starts and paying no heed to defensive basics. The post-mortem should wait for the season’s end, when howling at the moon will understandably commence.
169 Responses to “At The Boleyn Headless Gunners Falter”
Get in.
Fine report Guvna
#still believe
But Sunderland have to beat Lesta.
We have to go to city.
We are fighting for fourth, not the title.
The seasons a success H. The bank account is overflowing and the business model is in full swing. Stan can sup a cold one thousands of miles away, safe in the knowledge that the bank balance is on the increase. Those at the helm of this once fine club care not a jot about what does or doesn’t happen on the pitch. Just as long as the money keeps rolling in.
I’ve been stuck at work all day so not seen anything of the game. To be honest I did not even have sufficient interest to even put the radio on. I will watch the MOTD highlights with some 6X as my anaesthetic of choice.
What happens if, in the unlikely event Pool wins Europa but finish outside top 4? Do they take the 4th place CL qualification spot?
hmm….
Watching replay.
Fucking hell – carroll shulda been sent off after 5 Mns.
Should City lose( they are losing …) and spuds and leicester lose.. would not be too bad a week 🙂
Unlikely but one can hope eh…
😀
@Homer
I said that in the previous drinks.. blatantly kicked out at Kos with clear intent… but the ref apparently decided to judge it like a cup match of old…one eye closed throughout!
ah well.. still we should not have let them back in..especially after going 2 up!
City draw level with what looks like a dubious penalty…
True enough, BB.
Headless chicken FC shows up in place of AFC.
It’s a shame,…..Arsenal are fond of making a c*nt like Andy Carroll look like Lionel Messi.
Did any of our over pampered players score a Hat trick this season?
Did Leicester lose at Upton Park?
Naija. No kidding.
Lucky to get a draw today. Even a draw would have been beyond us if West Ham had sat back and defended after going ahead instead of playing the open game they did. We should have played Per given they have three big players (Carrol, Kouyate and Antonio) who are good in the air. We threw away a match I thought we had sown up, the story of our season. We have a fight on our hand to ensure we finish in the top four.
Seems emblematic of the season somehow. Cruising at 2-0 up but grateful to get an equaliser by the end.
Finally we can focus on what we are good at. Finishing in 4th place, with that we get to play CL football and get knocked out in the second round. You have to say that’s some consistency 3rd -4th for the past 10-12 yrs. Why would anyone want to change that? Why would you change anything when you are making good money and bank account looks great. That’s more important than winning titles or even pretend to compete for it. If any Arsenal fan out there don’t think its time for a change, well I don’t know what else to tell you.
Can you imagine any top European sides go 2 goals up and not being camped in their own half to ensure victory particularly with only 5 minutes to half time. No leadership and we looked suspect every time they broke forward. Their threat on the flanks was not challenged and it looked inevitable that they would score. We should of parked the bus when 2 goals up and protected the flanks. That’s why the banners are there – tactical incompetence. No idea why Cech and Mertezaker were left out. Have to now support Leicester to win as the alternative winner would make me forced into immigrating to Australia and spending the rest of my days in a padded cell in Sydney muttering “I fucking hate Kroenke he did this to me”
West ham are no mugs. Very frustrated with the dropped points but this was a tough football match. Full credit to WHU. Andy Carroll is a total c&nt tho.
Surely this conversation has been had. But some blithey suggest that the answer is to buy more players. Man City, Chels, and Manyoo are doing that but thats no guarantee of anything. Its much easier to just blame the yank owner. The inherent unpredictability of football, dynamics of the modern game, and stiffer competition aside. Simlpistic views and jingoism … Yes, of course!
Title probably a bridge too far.
We can still finish above spurs. Not giving up on that.
Homer- I don’t think is being more players either. I just think the mentality of the team is just rubbish. That to me,comes from the top of the club. No gut, leadership, belief. There is no excuse for us to have not got to half time still 2-0 up. It was like 44mins, how do you concede two goals before half time? That’s just a crime. Leicester definitely deserve to win the league. They have won their past five games by a single goal. Think about that for a minute.. That’s a team that’s focused.
Is it just me that thinks we settled for the draw then?
We scored our third in the 70th minute but waited until something like the 81st to throw on the last attacking sub, even though he was ready before we scored that third goal.
Things aren’t going to change until the manager leaves. Sorry.
“The defence showed an amoeba-like lack of spine.”
You’ve said it all right there ‘h!
A measured summary following yet another complacent and tactically inept performance by both the over-pampered players and their Manager when cruising as 2 goals to nil.
The fight for 3rd and 4th place is now well and truly on with both Citeh, ManU and West Ham. If Liverpool win the Europa League, which they very well could do with an away goal leading draw against the favorites Borrusia Dortmund in the first leg and with a young and tactically-fearless Manager called Jurgen Klopp in charge, then we’re all fighting for 3rd with Citeh, ManUre and West Ham. Additionally, if Citeh win the CL, and with Liverpool winning the Europa League, we need to finish 2nd ahead of the Spuds to be in the CL next season.
Could it be that going into the last year of his current contract, Arsene Wenger finally does not enjoy the taste of the Champions’ League’s riches as the manager of our football club? How did it all really come to this?
Up the Arse till I Die!
Even though Ospina could not be faulted for any of the goals, you just had to start Cech instead, simply because he provides so much composure and organization, which is vital against a side that you know is going to feature crosses if Bilic is going to start Carroll. I felt that starting Per was less of an issue, as the BFG plays like the shortest 6’7″ player on the planet when it comes to defending against headers, but Gabriel is proving to be inconsistent, lacking the steadiness you look for from everyone in the backline.
While the blogosphere will mainly be calling for the signing of a world class striker in the transfer period, there’s a much more crying need to reinforce the defensive core with the acquisition of a CD or two.
@Homer I have to disagree as we made this a tough football game through our mistakes. We was two goals up and a better team would defend that lead and suffocated the flanks where Carroll enjoyed so much service. Bilac made quick change at half time to improve their dynamics but for me we should be beating this Westham side but tactically inept. Wenger’s gung-ho tactics worked with the likes of Pires, Bergcamp and Henry as with them we would win 4-3. We need a new manager and Wenger is only surviving because of boardroom support that are contented with 4th place.
Cheers H! Love ya Dude!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FprdbkOVFek
When I see fellow Gooners calling for Wenger’s head the thing I do not see is who they would have replace him. Klopp has not pulled up trees at the red Scousers. VdG has been a disaster at United. Mourhino won the league but has left Chelski in mid table and a shadow of their former selves. Who knows whether Pep after running two clubs with ready made teams of winners can cut it after Pellegrini at City. Rafa has taken one point from twelve at Toon. There are other managers having great seasons and with good track records (Poch, Ranieri, Simeone) but who knows if they would move or, if so, whether they would be successful at The Arsenal. So, my colleagues, go on the record. Name your man. Then when your choice has been in charge for two years we can see whether your judgement was correct. Just cyber screaming “Wenga ahht” is neither constructive nor beneficial.
Me? I would stick with what we have but want improvements at centre half, striker and DM and someone on the Board who can mentor Wenger and decide who the next manager is going to be – the biggest decision the club has had to make for two decades.
Onto Palace next weekend! COYG!
Oi and that cunt @25 – learn to spell, watch the real game and then go fuck yourself
Dapper DanC@ 23: Liverpool winning the Europa League doesn’t affect the 4 Champions’ League places. The 4 spots will only be impacted if Man City win the Champions’ League, but fail to make the top 4 in the league. Then, only the top 3 will qualify and the 4th place team will be out.
You can point the finger at as many players as you want, but the same mistakes keep happening year after year. The manager has the carry the can. Time for M Wenger to walk.
Looks like I’m the only one who enjoyed the game then, it was breathless. A draw away at a flying West Ham (unbeaten in 10 games, unbeaten at home since August) is a good result in my book. If it wasn’t for Carroll having his best game since his Newcastle days (and the referee a terrible one) we’d have bagged it.
And Iwobi shined again, long may it continue!
Cheers Esso. 🙂
Good one H. What ever went wrong, went wrong in the dying couple of minutes of the first half. We had worked so hard for the lead until then. I’m probably one of those idealist who’ll stick to their Belief that we can still achieve something this season, although I too need to admitt that a lot of things that we can not master ourself, need to go our way from now on beginning with tomorrow. A Leicester draw and a Spurs defeat could save the weekend
Mentor Wenger? He’s not a kid who needs his hand holding and he has said often enough that he’s been in the job X number of years, then challenges people on what they know compared to him (in effect)
And as for who replaces him, who knows. Nobody, not one fan, would have chosen Arsene Wenger to manage Arsenal so the question is not really relevant for us. It’s a question that is only asked so the reply can be attacked.
Wanting to keep what we have with the last decade of failing to improve, failing to learn, being tactically out thought, having average players in key positions… is a bit bonkers IMO. If you think things need to improve you have to improve from top to bottom because none of that will change without a change of manager.
It hasn’t for the last ten years, so what makes anyone think the penny will magically drop now?
Shall I tell you my biggest worry Cynic? It’s that there isn’t a soul on the Board who I think is competent to pick a new manager.
@countryman-I will replace him with Simoene. If the board wasn’t shit they would have been able to wrap up pep before he went to city. At least Simoene’s team can defend unlike this lot we got now.
Well done for fronting up SAG. Good man undoubtedly, even if a bit more Graham than Wenger. My only question is, would he move?
What other club in Europe has a Coach that will decide when he wants to go. No pressure on him, this board will give him an extension pretty soon.
I think if we show interest he will move. Better pay, support and give him the needed funds. Arsenal is a bigger club than Ath. Madrid at least I hope so.I know people are scared of changes, but that’s life. Twenty one years in a job is good enough. How long are we willing to let him continue? Every era has to come to an end sometime, and to me that was two years ago.
I agree with you there, Countryman, regarding the lack of nous on the board. Maybe it’s that lack of knowing what to do that keeps them enslaved to the Wenger project.
I have a horrible feeling they’re going to go for Laurent Blanc, if there’s a change. Based on nothing more than the board being clueless and getting another Frenchman in just because…
Meanwhile Barca have dropped 8 points in 3 games ……
Well you got your 6 goals H,just not with us on the winning side of the ledger.!!
I’m with Matt,the only other one it seems,who thought it was an absolute cracker of a London Derby,that encapsulated everything that the worldwide audience loves about the EPL.
Rip roaring atmosphere,non stop end to end action,mistakes and controversy, and goals galore,but in the end probably a fair result.
A match played between 2 sides with a few quality players and several average ones,that are probably both where they deserve to be in the League table.
@40 Cynic: If that’s your awful feeling I’d say it would be much easier (as in likely) for the board to select someone worse rather than better than Laurent Blanc.
I’m a big fan of Klopp but Liverpool were 6th the season before and 6 points off the top when Rogers was sacked. They’re 9th now, 24 points off Leicester (admittedly with 2 games in hand). If those were Rodgers’ results he would be sacked again… Of course it’s still very much Rodgers’ team and an adaptive season for Klopp so mugsmashers still can harbor hopes of a better future. And of course it’s not like they can hope for a better manager.
An absolute cracker it was, Clive, I just wish I’d been a neutral watching it. 🙁
Like most I was astonished to see OspinO retained, unless Cech isn’t 100 per cent, in which case why was he on the bench? I can’t help thinking he would have got to at least one of their goals.
And neither Per nor OG picked to counter the Hammers height?
Apparently Payet was scouted many times but considered too inconsistent. Hmmm.
Let’s hope we can hang on to our trophy position…
Can someone please explain the offside rule as it applies to the Lanzini effort.
The ball was crossed by Noble from the Hammer’s left, overhead kicked by Carroll to Lanzini and into the net, but ruled offside. However … after crossing the ball Noble kept going and stepped over the dead-ball line where he still was when Carroll made contact. He then stepped back into play as Lanzini netted. Was Noble technically offside according to the rule? Making the call correct?
Further to previous … while Noble’s feet were clearly over the dead-ball line it could be argued that the way he was leaning had part of his upper body in the field of play.
I’ve returned in having been at a wedding. I watched until we went 2-0 up and have seen the highlights. I thought this was an extraordinary game and while we made a lot of mistakes we had the balls to come back and salvage something in a very tough match. Spurs lost there a month ago. It’s one of the toughest places to go in the league . Let’s see what our rivals do tomorrow.
The problem today was Gabriel was a disaster, physically dominated by Carroll. He is a liability far too often and it might have made sense to replace him with Mertesacker as H says. I’m afraid we need a much better partner for Koscielny next season.
As for the bigger picture I’m somewhere between Countryman and Steve T. Simeone is a spiv who speaks no English and his teams play anti- football. He’s not an Arsenal manager.
The problem is the owner who as Steve says doesn’t give a shit about playing success and is milking a very profitable cash cow. Wenger is deflecting the criticism that should be falling on him.
Just got in and watched the MOTD highlights. Clive sums it up perfectly.
“A match played between 2 sides with a few quality players and several average ones,that are probably both where they deserve to be in the League table.”
The Carroll foul on Kos. I think the ref got that right. So did Arsene according to his post match interview. Le Coq and Le Flam have received yellows for tackles as equal or worse than that this season. Carroll was lucky not to get a second yellow for the arm.
West Ham had a perfectly good goal ruled out. We got very lucky with that one.
In the end I think we were undone both on and off the field. It will be no surprise to anyone I would suggest that we were going to be subject to an aerial assault? Consisting that you have to ask why both Per and Cech did not start? Not that Ospina did anything wrong at all. Gabriel has looked better in recent weeks but like many of our squad, I’m far from convinced that he has the ability to take us to the next level.
We took our goals well and showed some spirit. Obi One Iwobi continues to impress. Let’s hope he continues to develop. All three that we conceded were just horrible.
We have been capable of being very good and very bad this season. Today seemed a mixture of both and summed up our season perfectly. Yet again, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Yet again, when we have been called to task, we just have not been good enough.
Time for everyone to start cheering for Leicester.
SAG – i cannot argue with your post at twenty-one.
Ganriel: There is a good center back in there. He does need a little time. Hes strong. Good on the ball. A bit nasty. He needs a littlw time.
Can someone please explain the offside rule as it applies to the Lanzini effort.
As I remember it, Noble crossed the ball and left the pitch. He was still off the pitch when Lanzini made contact and would have been inactive even if he stepped back on the pitch, as he was nowhere near the play, not obstructing anyone’s view etc.
Being inactive is of course the key Cynic. Thanks.
How many times are officials going to steal points from us? They didn’t steal a FOURTH goal from West Ham. They stole a FIRST… and then left on the pitch a man who should have been sent off at 1-0 to the Hammers, so the game should have been at least 3-1 to The Arsenal.
no guts no glory.
I find it hard to believe Wenger when he says this is the best team he has ever coached.
how he gets the minimum with his best ever team only he knows.
You can all shout and rave @ what happened
In the game but nothing is going to change.
I live in Belfast & it’s like listening to the politicians
debating about who was to blame for ruining our
little country? & what comes up is the same tit for tat,
unresolved answers that keep things as they still are…
Time for change is the only answer & that means I’m
afraid it’s you mr Wenger who has to @ least make room
for a better, more knowledgeable tactician to be @ your
side or step into your shoes & see if they can make a difference?
What’s the worst could happen?.
Harry Redknapp, Jimbob?
Uncle Mike – If their first goal had stood, or if Carroll had been sent off, the whole pattern of the game would have changed and the goals we scored would not have happened.
If any team has reason to complain about the referee it is them, not us.
We were awful and it’s no use looking to blame others for the fact that we chucked a two goal lead away and defended like … well like Arsenal.
There is no point fans saying we should buy this player and that player etc while we still have the same manager.
We could have the best 11 players in the world and they still wouldn’t win the league with our lack of tactics, match preparation and zero in game management. Wenger is simply a shell of the Manager he once was and has been at the club far too long, although forever grateful for what he has done since 1996 I cannot wait until the day he goes and a new manager and a new footballing infrustructure is introduced.
As well as a new Manager, new coaches & a director of football (like Overmars at Ajax) need to be introduced. We can start the post season autopsy already, the same old mistakes every season, end off.
For people moaning about Gabriel, Ramsey, Walcott etc I’ve heard it all before with Gallas, Denilson & Vela. The only constant is a Manager past his sell by date and an anemic board & owner whose only interest is to stock pile money.
A very sad state of affairs.
One other thing, we need to get some proper defenders in and if that means scouting the lower leagues, which we should be doing anyway (I cannot believe we do so as we’ve found fuck all in England while other clubs have) we should do so.
And stop looking at 17 year old strikers from fucking Bali (or wherever) who play in the French third division.
Steve Bould was raised under George Graham. Either he is a dreadful coach who cannot pass on what he learned, or we have had some properly dim players who are incapable of learning.
Or a manager whose idea of defending is to score six when the opposition get three.
Big changes required managerially and on the coaching staff, or get ready for yet more seasons of nowt (why do I get the feeling I’ve been saying this for the last ten years?)
Lots calling for change.Time to round on the board then as a starting point.
Many excellent points there, Cynic @59.
Every season I wish for the team to win all the titles, while somewhere at the back of my mind, I am prepared to face the same script play out, namely: a bright start that peters out, or a midseason impetus that fizzles out so we always finish fourth, exit at the group stage CL, and have a shot at the FA. Sometime back when we were doing well during Christmas, they asked Rooney about our chances and he said ‘we’ll see where they are in feb’, and promptly we screwed up as we usually do. Reminds me of what Fergie once said to their team before facing spurs, ‘boys, it’s only tottenham’. Guess that’s what other teams must be saying before taking on the once mighty invincibles. Sad.
While last year we played so well, coming back from a goal down to win, this year has been the reverse. A season that promised so much has gone to the dogs.
Another thing that puzzled me always was that the players did the exact opposite of what the manager said in pre-match press meets. Vs Manu he said we are not serial chokers. We choked. When he said we shouldn’t concede we did exactly that. There definitely is a communication gap, and it’s not just with Gabriel.
And judging by what he recently said (about Ozil having to keep the faith to win this year’s title and immediately following it up by saying we should be more practical etc), even he doesn’t seem to know what he is saying. Oh well, bring on the next season, probably for more of the same.
Why didn’t Feo call another players’ meeting to sort it out again? 😉
Because it would like talking to a fence made of very thick planks?
In platitudes and happy little sound bites.
Excellent. Well done Leicester.
Now for the mancs to kick the shit out of the spuds.
Any team can have a bad day but not Leicester City. They win 2-0 again. They keep all their players defending and one pacey attacker and keep scoring one goal at the least and keep a clean sheet – their winning formula. We play with all our players in the opposing half with just a couple of defenders. Not surprising we concede so many goals. Champion teams are built on a solid defence and AW does not believe in defence. Not surprising we have not won the league for over a decade. We will see this repeated in the future too as long as AW is in charge.
Leicester are now 10 points clear at the top of the table. They are 13 points ahead of us, all be it that we have a game in hand.
If that is not the biggest wake up call that there could ever be then I really do not know what is. Put simply, it’s embarrassing.
Not to worry. The 17 year old from the French third division via Bali will be our saviour?????. Talking of which, are we still paying Sanogo a wage????
Just found myself subconsciously cursing the Leicester players … Realised that i desperately want arsenal to be in the place Leicester are in … Well just feel deflated
What sort of points return would you expect from Arsenal if they scored only 6 goals in five consecutive premier fixtures? Let’s just say 8, with 2 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss.
Leicester have just done 15, with five straight clean sheets. Remarkable, and it hasn’t been boring. Stout defense can make for good football,
Nice one, Holic,
impeccable restraint with an interesting glimpse between the lines.
Twenty four hours on I’m feeling a mixture of inevitable sadness, anger and disappointment. Yesterday encapsulated the whole season – some great football full of quick passing and technique; the ability to dominate the opposition and take a commanding lead; the spirit to keep going and claw a goal back when behind; and an almost unique ability to throw it all away with a dramatic collapse, suicidal defending and a complete failure to learn any of the lessons described on constant repeat by a selection of our players.
We were undone yesterday by the failure to learn a lesson given by Swansea City last season. Having done a superb job as a stand-in centre back when all the regulars were injured, Nacho Monreal was left to defend high crosses against Gomis – an arrangement that proved disastrous.
Yesterday, every pundit seemed to know that Andy Carroll would move to the back post to isolate the opposing fullback in the air. We apparently did not.
Having been caught out once, two minutes before half time, our defence appeared to believe that lightning could never strike twice and made no adjustment to correct the frailty. Lightning, of course, struck a second time two mi utes later.
Just for fun, in the second half, we decided to let Hector Bellerin have a go at outjumping the 6’4″ bulldozer of a centre forward, with the inevitable result. In just nine minutes our commanding lead had become a one goal defecit.
To be fair, the fight back was encouraging but the vital three points, and any lingering hopes of a title, were gone.
What prolongs the agony are the echoes of the owner’s interview, given around three weeks ago, when he said he is not in it to win things but has learnt how to exploit our brand loyalty to generate revenue.
It is not the owner’s fault that our defenders couldn’t work out who should mark Carroll yesterday but that failure was a symptom of a deep malaise that has pervaded our team for far too many years.
Like Cynic, and others, my main worry is that there is no-one in the club with the faintest idea how to direct the changes that we now sadly require, whether they be forced on the existing manager or, indeed, involve a new manager.
The other issue is whether our owner even wants, or recognises the need for, changes.
Don’t flex the old grey matter too much over that one.
He doesn’t.
I do not understand the repeated refrain that the board does not have the “football knowledge” to pick a successor to Arsene. The vast majority of boards don’t have that in any industry, it is not really their role. A good board provides a wide background of different viewpoints from different backgrounds to provide checks and balances on the company. The “vision thing” is not their concern, only to ensure that the managerial/executive team have one and it is coherent.
When the time comes to make a change at the top, the board, at Arsenal or any other company, can easily turn to expert advisors to make recommendations and undertake the task. There are entire companies that specialize in just this. In the case of Arsenal that could be anyone with the requisite experience that so many fear is not on the board, including the vaunted David Dein if they like and he is willing.
Some would argue that having a football man on the board negates this but my experience (admittedly not in football) is that a single vote on the board is nowhere near as powerful as the recommendation of an outside expert. Boards are made up of people who usually like to cover their asses, so if one of the board makes a choice they all do and own it. If a consultant makes a recommendation and they accept it, then it is the consultant that hangs if it goes wrong and the board gets plausible deniability.
Well there you have it.
Leicester win again.
As long as we finish above the spurms it’s the least I could ask for at the end of this season, as it currently stands.
Thank you for allowing me to say my piece.
Peace!
Chris66,
Maybe it’s a fear borne of the fact that the Arsenal was owned and run for decades by shareholders who had at least been involved in football for as many years, and not just a collection of marketing men from an American sports empire.
The Hill-Woods, Danny Fiszman, Ken Friar – they were people who knew football, they were Arsenal through and through and did actually want us to win things.
Trev
You could say that about pretty much any PLC, but it just isn’t the way it works any more. My point however is that there is nothing unique about Arsenal’s position and lots of companies manage to move from executive team to executive team and do well with t. Having Bobby Charlton on the board didn’t prevent Man Utd from appointing David Moyes. In large part the “football man” argument is an invention of ex-pros and the media. While there is no doubt that specific expertise is a significant asset when making a decision it is a skill set more suited to a periodic consultant, meaning you can access the best of the best, rather than who you have got. The marketing men are probably more useful for the mundane review role that makes up the primary role of a board. After all, would you really want David Seaman’s viewpoint upon South Asian retail distribution expansion? Probably not. The reality is that that is what most of the board’s work is, not the hopefully very periodic appointment of a football coach. Bring in the people who know all of the possible contenders when you need them and have them guide the board.
Trev
I don’t think Peter Hill- Wood had a clue about football but he loved Arsenal and wanted what’s best for the club. David Dein was ‘vaunted’ Chris 66 because he had the ambition of a fan ( which he was) and the acumen of a businessman as well as a formidable network of contacts. He was the reason we signed Dennis Bergkamp when the board were very reluctant to invest that sum.
Most boards I am on have a number of subject matter experts with slightly different expertise but I accept that is not always the case with many boards .
Trev is correct that the current majority owner is very bad news for a club who hopes to compete in an increasingly competitive and lucrative league . Soon Kroenke won’t even need to see Champions League football in future to achieve serious profits at our current level of expenditure . I have been banging on about this as has Steve T and was called out recently on exactly what profile I would seek in an ideal Arsenal owner. My answer was that I believe it would be best if we were owned by someone who is an Arsenal fan , ie , someone who is not a philanthropist but is rich and competitive enough to want to see Arsenal achieve as much success as they can. Others have said that until they see Kroenke actually damaging the club they aren’t worried about him owning us. My contention would be that this season is an example of how we are being damaged, in that the title is being won deservedly by a very modestly talented team . This was a chance for us to push forward but our investment in the team has been negligible. Having said that Wenger is the ultimate decision- maker but he has become substantially more conservative since Dein left and an ambitious owner would encourage him to try to strengthen a squad that ludicrously we failed to improve in the close season. Wenger lost a lot of credibility when he said that there was not a single available outfield player we could have bought in the summer to improve the team.
It’s not just a personnel problem that affects us, there is a tactical issue and the perennial injury jinx.
West Ham began the day with only one of their squad injured- ironically the player they had on loan from Arsenal! We still had umpteen unready for the fray.
Sadly I just can’t see anything changing. I’m sure Kroenke doesn’t read Goonerholic or any of the other much more critical blogs that chronicle our season. Frankly I doubt he even watches our matches. He is the biggest problem we face.
TTG
I agree that Wenger has become far too conservative and will need to be replaced sooner rather than later. I agree that it would be great to have a perfect owner but there are very few of those. In many cases their equity empowers them to make decisions they are not qualified to make.
Changing the manager (an employee) is much more feasible than changing the majority equity owner. Surely an ambitious talented manager wouldn’t need a board to tell them what to do?
Chris
You’ve made a very sound and intelligent argument but my concern is that an owner whose total motive for involvement in football management is making a profit may well restrict the ability of the manager to spend in the transfer market or may load the company with debt as the Glazers have at United.
Nobody really knows whether Wenger is so conservative that he won’t spend money the board are happy to give him or whether they are happy to hide behind him as a fall- guy for their lack of ambition.
I will be interested to see whether S***s ( who have swatted United today) or Liverpool are as constrained financially as we were while they are building their new ground and whether this leads to a player exodus as it did with us. I think I can guess the answer.
Chris66- I am with you 100%. Changing an employee is way more feasible than changing the owner. I am not a fan of Kroenke, but I just can put all the blame on him. Does he tell wenger who to buy? ( its not like we are buying a messi or Ronaldo type of player). He did allow wenger to spend $45 million on Ozil and $30 plus on Alexis. I for one put majority of the blame on Wenger when it comes to what we are seeing on the pitch. Wenger is just too big for the damn club and that’s where the problem lies. Nobody can tell him shit, he acts like a damn god. Yes, we appreciate all you have done while getting paid handsomely by the way. Some Fans act like he built the stadium with his money or was taking a pay-cut during that period. Its time to say thanks and bye. How can an employee decide when they want to leave regardless of past results. If Wenger stays another 10 years and don’t win the PL, you will still have fans that want him to stay because of what he did 25 plus years ago.
Spuds win 3-0. We lost 3-2 to this rag tag Man Utd side, a shame. Our current problems started with Liverpool scoring the last minute equaliser and with it went the belief that we could close out matches. No team with pretensions of winning the league can afford to drop so many points from leading positions. We could have won the league this season and it is galling to see a small team like Leicester bossing the league. Why can’t we defend like them.
AW appears to think that it does not matter which eleven is fielded as the composition of the team wouldn’t affect the result. After yesterday’s match he said that West Ham exploited our aerial weakness. He did not say why he did not field Per and Giroud who would have strengthened our defence against the likes of Carroll. I only hope he does not repeat his mistakes when we take on WBA who have some very tall players like Olsson etc.
TTG
The real issue is whether Kronke’s passivity extends to not providing the resources for the manager to succeed or setting targets that are too low. Nobody is leveling this criticism at Joe Lewis at Spurs who seems similarly laid back.
While it may be possible that Kronke is cross collateralizing the Arsenal cash reserves to help out his other interests I would be very surprised if anyone would take that against other loans, given that he does not own 100% of Arsenal. The potential for an Usmanov lawsuit would be too great. also Kronke is spending money freely in the US with buying his new ranch and the deal to move the Rams to LA is being funded by the NFL and the real estate.
I think the reality is that Kronke isn’t really the problem but nor is he the solution. Arsenal have very healthy budgets and just aren’t using them very well. It may just be that Wenger has become stuck in the stoic mode imposed by the tough financial times and cannot escape them. He is 67 years old after all and that is not a time of life when most men reinvent themselves. A new manager with something to prove would probably be more aggressive and given the competition for top managerial talent, highly likely to be able to secure guarantees on funds and decisions as part f his package.
My overall point us that I feel that there is nothing really standing in Arsenal’s way. Not the board nor the financesor the owner. We have just reached the end of a cycle and it is time for change and a new one to begin. This causes a conflict between the loyalty/sentimentality dynamic for the past and the innovation/risk accepting future. It is not surprising or new, it just happens. My own judgement, which I can fully accept others can disagree with, is that change is coming. The problem is that it is taking place too slowly and causing schisms. Probably better to rip the plaster off.
Ttg, I think it unfair to call Leicester a ‘very modestly talented team’. Modestly funded they may be, but you don’t get to be within a cat’s whisker of winning the Premiership without talent. And some of the money likely to be thrown at their players in the close season is likely to affirm that.
Not that I would argue for one minute that we haven’t blown an unexpected and rare opportunity to win the title.
Chris@ 81 Couldn’t have agreed more, thank you.
Chris @ eighty-one.
Very well said.
Chris66 @81,
That’s a superb drink fella! I couldn’t agree more with you if I tried!
Barkeep! Give that fella another tipple of what he’s having on my tab. I’ll excuse him the need for a cravat and smoking jacket on this very rare occasion!
I don’t think Wenger’s attitude to money was shaped at all by the stadium move, it was ingrained anyway, then made worse in France with the Marseille thing and he’s just not prepared to sign top quality players. They cost too much and he doesn’t like (by his own admission big names.
Even the players he has bought who turned out to be world class had no real name behind them before they came here. Overmars did, but the others?
Course, the net result of his dislike for big players means we end up paying over the odds in terms of fees and wages for some very mediocre alternatives.
Even I, as a Theo fan, think he’s being paid twice as much as he should be. For example.
Cynic
We can’t ignore the purchases of Ozil and Sanchez though just because they don’t fit the narrative. I fully accept that we as fans operate upon scant information, but it does appear that we were seriously after Benzema last year and Suarez before that. Might it not be that our venerable but 67 year old manager believes that his team required only tinkering with in order to win. If he felt that a rebuild was in order he might have then have to face the reality that he may not have enough time to do it. You know that old proverb that “if someone’s livelihood depends upon him not knowing something, then he will surely not know it”.
I am not trying to be ageist and Mr Wenger certainly seems in full control over all of his faculties, but he is human and so vulnerable to the same factors that impact all of us. Any company with an ageing head is vulnerable to repeating the past as opposed to delineating the future. Mr Wenger has done an extraordinary job for Arsenal for which he, rightly in my opinion, has been richly rewarded. But times change, unfortunately faster than any of us is ever really able to keep up.
Someone who I really admire once told me that one of the most important things in life is to end things well. I hope above hope that we,the club, the fans and even Arsene himself, are able to end this well. We never did with George Graham and we were all the worse of for it.
Couple of random stats:
Eighteen of the current 20 managers of Premier League clubs have never won the title.
Only seven clubs have been ever-presents in the Premier League (and soon to be six as Aston Villa is one of them).
Wow! An Arsenal-esque collapse by Jordan Spieth in the Masters Golf when leading by 3 to lose by 3!
Well done Danny Willet! You’ve done a Leicester over the big bollocks boys!
Cynic @86,
Arsene Wenger only likes “apathetic yes-men” as players. However, the big problem he’s got now is that our only three world class players, i.e. Cech, Ozil & Alexis, might have come across as yes men when signed but they already look like they’re not going to continue to accept our perennial failures and under-performance.
NBN @88,
I’m not quite sure what point you’re trying to make with your stats?! If you were to perhaps equate the lack of success in winning the EPL as per each club’s net spend per manager employed over the years and also with their staving off relegation, then you might have a point with your drink?!
Up the Arse all day and all night!
While acknowledging canny Rani’s management of Leicester plus a number of transfers in that could be described as Wengeresque (in his early years), I can’t help wondering where Leicester (and to a similar extent the neighbours) would be if their stars had had spent as long in the physio room as those of other teams, notably ourselves of course but also several others.
It’s not just key players constantly missing, but having to gel replacements all the time who, by definition, are of lesser quality or with different qualities. Interestingly, in every discussion of Leicester and the Totts’ success by so-called experts I’ve heard, none have mentioned the good fortune they’ve enjoyed in this regard. I can’t help thinking how different things could have been for us with just Santi fully fit all season, never mind the rest of our crocks.
And for the ‘typical Arsenal failure’ everyone bemoans we are still ahead of both Mancs, the chavs and bin dippers, and I’m far from ruling out adding the scum to that list.
No chance of reaching the Foxes however, whatever AW says publicly, so go the good guys in blue, please do the foxy thing to those pesky chickens on your heels.
It’s either a great pity Leicester escaped relegation last season, Ned, or an intervention by the football gods to keep the neighbours from being totally insufferable.
Chris @91,
Why is it that Leicester and Totts don’t have major injuries and we have a long list of injured players year after year. They must be doing something right that we are not. Our greater workload because of Champions League may explain some of the injuries but I think we are definitely missing something.
Chris- I get some of your points but please lets not use injuries as excuses for why we are always 1,2,3 steps away from winning the PL for the past 6-7 years. There is no team as good as us when it comes to collapsing. If there was a trophy for that we would have won at least 3-4 trophies. Its a mind set from the top to the bottom. Wenger’s recent teams have not been able to stand up and be counted when it gets down to the business end of the season in regards to pushing and going for the EPL title.
I’m just suggesting, SAG, that there may be more than coincidence involved when the team with least injuries leads for most of the season (Leicester) and another with minimal injury impact climbs up to second in the latter half of the season (Tottenham). In fact I think the point is blindingly obvious.
Yes there are other factors, but having a full physio room year after year must have every fit player worrying when their turn will come – at least so long as no one can work out why it’s always happening.
We all know how good this team can be when everyone’s fit and firing. But when was that last the case?
As for perenially collapsing that’s simply not true. In fact our end of season form has been as good or better than most as often as not. Didn’t we have the best run in of all Prem clubs last season? Correct me if I’m wrong Ned.
Chris66,
Thanks for an excellent response and a very good debate with TTG.
I would much prefer my idealistic, if simplistic, vision but you clearly know a lot more than I do about how these things work.
My comment about PH-W and Danny Fiszman was, not so much they know about football, as they knew football people and would have an inside track. I can see though, in the world of super agents, that those days are long gone.
All I will say about Ozil and Sanchez is that there’s a reason why big clubs sell players like them, and perhaps we’re seeing the reason.
Sanchez has had a poor second season with us and Ozil, for all his assist stats and eye opening moments in games, doesn’t boss matches the way great players should. He doesn’t get hold of a team the way a really world class player will (an Henry or a Bergkamp for example) and make the game his.
Cech is a bit different as he chose to leave his club, but the other two may not actually be the world class talent they appear to be when they are playing well (I’ve never really been convinced by Ozil though, he’s a part timer).
@ Chris
Our perennial injuries are due to relatively archaic training, coaching and body-conditioning methods. This directive must come from the Head Coach and his team of specialists. Our training and body-conditioning methods haven’t changed since the late 90s but the speed and nature of the game of football in the EPL has. Aaron Ramsey got injured in his last but one game because he didn’t warm up properly. All our soft-tissue and muscle injuries are caused by this lack of proper physical conditioning or the taking of responsibility. Another piece of evidence is this: Arsene Wenger’s greatest strength and his greatest weakness at the same time is that he trusts his players too much. He was able to do that successfully with the famous back-four plus one of George Graham, and with the more aged and experienced “Invincibles”, who always took responsibility for themselves both on and off the pitch with little guidance. Unfortunately, his charges over the past 12 years, which have been essentially just kids, have just not been able to do that when that’s what they’ve needed.
As for the argument that we have had more games than the other two teams now left challenging for the title, therefore we get more injuries, the LWCs’ squad have had to cope with Europa League football on Thursdays over the past two seasons and still managed to have less injuries than us. Moreover, they are arguably now the fittest team in the EPL and also with still a far more congested fixture schedule than we have had.
As for our perennial collapse; it doesn’t matter whether that occurs at the start, in the middle or at the end, it’s still a season defining collapse. There’s no point finishing strong in a race when the race has already been one by someone else!
Up the Arse!
Cynic @97,
Alexis Sanchez was central to the Chile team winning the Copa America tournament last summer when they beat the likes of Argentina with Messi et al. Moreover, he never had a post-season break last summer nor the summer before that because of the World Cup which Germany won with Mesut Ozil again being central in that team and a regular starter. So who’s not “World Class” wrt Alexis and Ozil?
Pops a goal in.
Sanchez I’ll give you but Ozil? Not for me.
Nice finish Cynic after yet another “Wunderbar” slide-rule assist by Ozil! Definitely a “World Class” wand of a left-foot!
Dapper Danc@ 98- That was the point I was trying to make in regards to collapsing. Yea, we rally to get 4th which we are very good at. Not trying to compare ourselves to Chelsea/Manu/Mancity but when these teams don’t win the year prior, the next year they come out swinging and win the damn thing. I know they go out spend like crazy. My point is that we are just so afraid of not being in the top four that we don’t even try and compete to win the PL anymore. Wenger has made us believe that achieving top 4 is a good enough goal ( not saying its not) but in 12 years even law of averages says we should have won the league at least once. ( between the top four clubs)
Cracking Game of Football and a delight for the neutral, The League wasn’t lost Saturday that was lost after the debacle at old Trafford followed by Swansea.Some would even say it was lost in the summer and they too would have a fair point, All that said massive respect to Leicester as the run they have gone on would make them worthy champions (Please keep it going) – As for us really not sure where we go from here could be an interesting few months ahead,
From today’s Arsenal FC website’s On-Loan Watch: first sentence is “Every season a number of players go out on loan to gain valuable first team experience.”
Of the ten mentioned, four (Toral, Martinez, Kamara, Zelalem) were unused subs, and three (Silva, Hayden, Akpom) were “did not play”. Only Debuchy (who will no doubt be off in the summer) played a full 90. Maintland-Niles managed 46 minutes, while Yaya Sanogo did the true Arsenal match experience by going 34 minutes before coming off with an injury. So, less than one full match game time for the nine “prospects”.
I guess that if “gaining valuable first-team experience” means getting used to sitting on the substitute bench or in the stands for Arsenal, mission accomplished.
Great debate above on the Board Room perspective from TTG and Chris66. I can confirm that Board Members with whom I have dealt have no knowledge whatsoever of an organisation’s structures or specialist functions and simply bring the prejudices and values they acquired in their previous roles.
I share TTG’s visceral distrust of Kroenke whose philosophy (as defined in his own words recently) disseminating from the top of our club may have an impact on every single employee.
As the old proverb says, “the fish rots from its head”.
I spent a career in an organisation where professional cultures of excellence were subverted by an imposed top down culture of “affordable mediocrity is good enough” provided externally imposed targets were achieved (hit the target but miss the point was the prevailing culture) and can attest to its impact on the performance of every group within the organisation, with a significant impact on ‘clients’.
I think it’s been fortunate that Kroenke was unable to take over the whole club and is for the foreseeable future obstructed by Usmanov for whom I hold no respect but who at least prevents Kroenke having his way with us.
Chippy@103 knows.
I spent a career in an organisation where professional cultures of excellence were subverted by an imposed top down culture of “affordable mediocrity is good enough” provided externally imposed targets were achieved (hit the target but miss the point was the prevailing culture) and can attest to its impact on the performance of every group within the organisation, with a significant impact on ‘clients’.
Have you ghost written Pat Rice’s autobiography, titled “My Life With Arsene”?
What Chippy said.
Although I’ll add that, as much as West Ham this season are no mugs, it was hugely, hugely disappointing to witness our total failure to see out that first half lead. West Ham are a dangerous opposition with a boisterous home crowd. They also have a massive game to come on Tuesday night. We were five minutes from sending them in at the break with a silenced support and a bit of time to start thinking about their priorities. These are the moments you tighten up. Suffice it to say, we did not. Rookie stuff.
Hope we can get our heads up and make the strong finish necessary to overhaul the noxious neighbours.
COYG
I have defended Arsene all my life and cannot abuse him ever but time up great man. The team has been found out way to easily and it doesnt take a genius to figure out how to beat the Arsenal. no team concedes 2 similar goals in the span of 4-5 minutes and that to with a lead and a half time approaching. The moment the first goal went in, everyone knew the second is coming up.
We do not have leaders, we do not have a spine. We have technically fantastic players who can pass the ball all night but if allowed the time and space to do so. I am certain we do not train on the physical aspects of the game, we instead focus on first touch, weight of the pass etc. All that is fine but basically you need to fight, fight every moment and not turn away from the ball when a striker is shooting at goal, ala our defenders when Carroll did for the second goal. For all the hate for john terry, he would put his body on the line without a care in the world.
Arsene cannot win the league. This was the best chance, it kills me to see leicester win the league. No it is not a win for football, i dont give a damn f–k about them. It is gut wrenching to see them or anyone else win. this was our league and we blew it, oh find me a hole.
As someone elsewhere said, it won’t be a crime if Leicester wins the league as they’ve only lost three games all season so far and that kind of form will win you the league anywhere in the world.
What will be a crime is if Spurs win it because we beat Leicester twice.
Chris@95: Points from last eight games of last season:
Leicester 19
Man City 18
Chelsea 17
Arsenal 15
Swansea, Everton 13
Stoke, Palace, Sunderland 12
Man Utd, Spurs, WBA 11
Villa 10
Liverpool, Burnley, QPR 8
Southampton, Hull 7
WHU 5
Newcastle United 4
&@91: 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpawuHBoc0E
Sounds like an Italian movie.
http://www.theplayerstribune.com/claudio-ranieri-leicester-city-premier-league/
Cinema Paradiso?
Thanks Ned, we weren’t quite as good in the final weeks last season as I thought, but we did well enough not to be accused of collapsing I suggest. Must have been the previous season we came home so well, but it’s not a point I wanted to labour.
I look forward to your appointment as Arsenal’s conditioning coach, Dapper DanC (#98), you clearly understand these matters better than our current ‘experts’.
And to repeat, injuries are not the whole problem or even the major one. As SAG says in #102, other clubs spend like crazy (while we exercise due diligence like a responsible business should). Apropos which I thought FFP was based around the notion that clubs could only spend up to the amount of profit they earned (something like that), yet I believe $iteh has only made a profit once since the oilygarcs took over?
Perhaps we should have bought more in the summer. I have bemoaned the lack of quality in central defence for ages hoping AW would go for Hummels or Varanne for example. But had our squad been fully fit it could well be argued that we had a strong enough squad anyway, or that more ‘stars’ could breed discontent.
And perhaps more telling than injuries, imo, is the lack of leadership onfield since Paddy (and to a lesser extent TH14) left, and the non-existence of staunch club men like Ray Parlour, TA5 etc. And finally the controlling hand of a manager determined to prove a point and win the way he always planned – ‘against all odds’… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sd0W1RyMnE
Chris @115,
I probably do know abit more than most but I’m just a little bit too busy sorting out the Rugby lads! Fortunately though, one of my best mates is already on the Arse medical team and he does get flabbergasted by it all! I’m very reliably told that Pochettino and his team at the LWCs, are modern physical conditioning-geniuses. They apparently use all that “sports science” rather well!
Up the Arse!
Dapper DanC aka Dr. Dapper DanC
Wonder who will win the league if Leicester are disqualified due to improper finances.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/leicester-city-finances-football-league-financial-fair-play-investigation
If they are docked a dozen points of course.
As usual, a collection of excellent posts all evidently inspired by the main piece by our esteemed host.
I share the frustration of the last few months when we seemed to have contrived one trademark Arsenal way after another to throw away eminently winnable points to in all likelihood lose out a title that this time felt like was ours for taking. That said, I don’t think things are as bad as it seems to be after another round of the repeat run of this very unique genre of Gunner-horror movie.
It could be my self-protective instincts, but I don’t start the season ever expecting us to win anything. I sure hope we win quadruple/quintuple and break all club records, but not starting the season with any expectation makes the joy whenever we win anything all the more sweeter. I do concede that not following the team at grounds home or away, and hence not have to bear the significant financial and social cost, does probably allow me a greater degree of equipoise than most of you who are braving your way to the Emirates or some obscure corner of the earth like Stoke City in all weather conditions, suffering traffic nightmares, and I salute your humor and appreciate your insights.
Arsenal as a football club definitely can do better when it comes to on-the-field performance, especially in terms of being the absolute best in the world. However, it can also do a lot lot worse. This is not to say that we shouldn’t strive for that final bit of improvement that would get to us being a more frequent winner of PL and CL, we must. But I wonder whether as fans whether it really is worth the frustration, depression, despondence when we fail to do so.
Especially given that in the last couple of decades or so we have not regressed at all, if anything we have progressed and progressed significantly in multiple measures. NBN will be able to correct my “guess” statistics, but I think in the last 15 odd years our average league position is around 3 whereas the 15 odd years before that it will be something around 7-8. That is a significant improvement in consistency, despite a rapidly changing landscape in football and more specifically PL where the improvement in quality (players’, managers’, tactical and football preparations, application of modern medicine and analytics) and competitiveness have made it possibly the toughest and most unpredictable football league of any time in recent memory.
Again, that is not to say that we shouldn’t strive to improve in areas where the need for improvement is self-evident. For instance, we all know that if last weekend’s match was against Man City and they were playing Andy Carroll we would have had a genuine plan for him and/or would have done much better in-game management after the first goal went in. We would have defended with our lives. There is a thread of complacency in this team that rears its ugly head in the most inopportune times and I think the entire set-up should assume blame for it, including Arsene.
However, it is possible that even when we make those improvements something else will fall through. It is possible that once Arsene leaves — this year or next or maybe the year after — the replacement we get would get us to a PL and CL double in the very next season, but it is likelier (statistically speaking) that he would struggle to maintain consistency. It is much less likely (again, statistically speaking) that we will enter a ManU-under-Fergie like run of guaranteed success than having highs and lows like Liverpool since their glory days. We all hope we become a Real like super club (in terms of footballing success, not financial practices), but given the current state of affairs in English football it is highly unlikely there would be any club of that degree of consistency.
So when the initial frustration about the latest footballing Seppuku act a la Arsenal passes, I tell myself that instead of carrying on being frustrated about yet another title-less season I might as well remember and enjoy the great moments our team creates in a regular basis, the great matches they play now and then and also the vicarious thrill of winning many more matches than not, because history teaches me that I should take none of that for granted.
Here is to the impending arrival of St.Totteringham! I know it looks like this year he has been abducted by a mob of smelly creatures and is being kept prisoner in some swamp, but as we speak he is freeing himself off his hideous prisoners to take his leisurely annual walk into the sunshine. 🙂
Dapper Dan@116: Tell us more. Your @98 rang true but beggared the question of in what ways our training and body-conditioning methods have fallen behind.
bt8b@117: so Leicester is bankrolled by a billionaire, too. There goes another fairytale…
Dr F@118: your guess sounds about right. One question: would fans (of any club) prefer a title and a nightmare season to a consistently high finish, eg, first and, say, ninth (average position fifth) to being consistently second or third?
Next time I schlepp the round trip of 900 miles to see the tram self combust, I’m going to have a gallon of that equipoise.
Sounds triffic.
Tram or perhaps team.
Faustus @118, never a truer observation…..
“There is a thread of complacency in this team that rears its ugly head in the most inopportune times and I think the entire set-up should assume blame for it, including Arsene.”
@bath and Dr.F: It’s not just complacency, there’s also a sense of innate fear/lack of confidence when facing teams like Manu, (where we haven’t won in 9 seasons apparently), Chelsea and to some extent ‘pool (the odd win at community shield etc doesn’t count when you are looking for consistency). Perhaps it stems from top down as well? Maybe ever since the Invincibles left, the boss feels the team doesn’t have it despite all the talk of mental strength and sharpness in the final third?
Doc Faustus- Personally I would have traded just one PL title in the past 12 years and finished below 4th for 2 – 3 years. Than been in the top 3-4 spots for the past 12 years. I want that feeling of winning the league again please God Help me……
@123
We won at Old Trafford last season. I also don’t think Liverpool have beaten us since that humping at their place two years ago, and a year ago we walloped them 4-1.
This season we’ve got a better record against the rest of the top four than any other club. We blew Utd away at home, beat City and inflicted two of Leicester’s three league defeats.
If anything, it’s our results against the likes of Swansea, West Brom, Chelsea (heh) and Norwich that have cost us this time out – we’ve dropped far too many points against mid table sides. Obviously, Chelsea still have the Indian sign over us, but we’ve beaten just about everyone else within recent memory.
It would be a lot easier if the same things really were going wrong every season, but they’re not. Sometimes we have a great run in, sometimes we fall apart. Sometimes we’re imperious once we have a lead, other times we can’t defend one. Sometimes we get mullered in the games against the big clubs. Other times our big game form is as good as anyone’s.
The only two patterns I can see of late are that we seem to be on a rollercoaster in terms of calendar year performance (great for most of 2013, average for most of 2014, great for most of 2015, average for most of 2016), and we seem to shit a brick every time we’re in touching distance of actually achieving a long term goal. Exhibit A – the total balls up that was our performance on Boxing Day, on what was our best opportunity of the season to really lay down a marker for our title charge. I agree entirely that the latter is Wenger’s responsibility to manage and indicates a degree of mental fragility and the absence of a bit of on field leadership.
Good post N7 but if it is not the same thing then why the feck does it feel like Groundhog Day?
I aint ever been in Punxsutawney…..
@zico
It feels EXACTLY like Groundhog Day. That’s what’s so fricking annoying about it.
Re: 123. If I hear the words “mental strength” one more time I may scream. What’s wrong with confidence, pure and simple?
Southampton 4 Arsenal 0 on Boxing Day. I was out of town but that was a real shocker to read that score when it was such a critical juncture of the season. Time to perform and it certainly gave the impression that the team decided it was time for a nap.
N7G@125: to your point, it is our (under) performance against the teams from sixth to tenth in the table that has been our undoing this season. On the basis of my theory that to win the title you need to beat the bottom ten clubs home and away and take four points off the other nine clubs, this season we have taken eight points off sixth to ninth (current standings), or 40% of the target, compared to 16 last season (final positions), or 80% of the target.
Another eight points would have put us five behind Leicester and two ahead of the neighbours with a game in hand on both. In that event, I suspect the mood in the bar would be considerably more upbeat.
What about that total non-performance against Sheffield Wednesday in the League Cup? Another shocker that should have been taken as a warning that worse was to come.
Joe Allen goal at Anfield was this season’s dagger. “Mental Strength”?
And for whoever succeeds AW, Silent Stan has to include a contract clause stating that the first utterance of the above phrase triggers an immediate P45.
I think a draw at Anfield can happen, and we showed a bit of heart that night in repeatedly coming from a goal down. Plus, Liverpool played pretty well, by their own standards.
It’s hands down Old Trafford from where I’m sat.
A win would have put us within 2 points of Leicester with 11 games still to play. Bang in the title race.
Our previous league game was the 2-1 home win over Leicester.
We had a strong side out, arguably only really missing Cazorla.
They were down to the bare bones, playing Michael Carrick at centre half and a bunch of kids around him.
We put in probably our worst, most soporific, least interested looking performance of the entire season. Properly went down without a fight that day.
I don’t like to dwell too much on the negative, but if ever there was a game this term that really curdled the blood, it was this one. Made even worse by the performance against Swansea a few days later. That week was the absolute nadir, as far as I’m concerned. No excuses at all.
Ugh. Can we talk about something a bit less grim?
Not sure this is much less grim N7 but what of the expected development and push into the first team this season by AOC and Gabriel? Neither looks close as far as I can see.
Girls.
I vote girls. 😎
That probably qualifies as marginally less grim.
But only just.
Of all the players we have who people have had doubts about, the one for me who must leave is AOC, as he is going nowhere fast and before he knows it, he’ll have been here ten years, not be a starter, not know his position etc.
The new Feo, no less.
Incidentally I read last week that Wenger says Walcott doesn’t know what his best position is and needs to make up his mind where he’s going to play.
Errr isn’t that YOUR fucking job, as his manager?
At the time of Theo’s last contract renewal controversy there was a very good debate in this forum on the pros and cons of whether he should be offered a shiny new contract, and there were many good arguments against but I came down in favor. Based on this season’s evidence I no difficulty saying Theo has not earned it.
NBN @119,
Arsene Wenger and his coaching team still spend quite alot of time on technical work (especially attacking) rather than on pure physical conditioning, stamina and strength-building. This is now quite different from the other clubs in the EPL which at times have two training sessions in a single day.
Repetitive tactical and technical defensive work without the ball are focused on alot less by Arsene Wenger and his coaching team than with other EPL clubs; especially those which are lower down in the league or in mid-table. There is no fixed, deep and ingrained reinforcement of the “playing-without-the-ball” defensive mindset because ball possession and ball retention have been the foundation of Arsene Wenger’s footballing philosophy throughout his tenure. This lack of a consistent, automatic and instinctive defensive culture throughout the team, results in most of our defensive frailties being highlighted, and which other seemingly less technical teams are now very quick and easily able to pick-up on and exploit. That’s why Steve Bould was brought in. Has Steve Bould’s addition worked? To some extent it has in the one-off cup matches and cup runs but I don’t think it has in the more marathon-like and consistency-requiring league for reasons which are down to Arsene Wenger.
The associated directness, pace and power of the early years’ teams ball possession and retention has been lost as the then naturally larger-statured and athletic players and squad, which were also technically excellent as we have now, have only been replaced with smaller statured players. Sadly, the capacity for consistent and purposeful attacking ball retention and ball possession, the likes of which other smaller-statured teams like Barcelona have, is still inconsistent with us and that’s because our team and squad is not only slightly less technical than Barcelona in some squad areas but we also do not have an instinctive and automatically indoctrinated defensive culture running through the club such as Barcelona have. We simply won’t win anything big again like the Premier league or Champions league until we get that culture back, and I don’t think that Arsene Wenger can create that again now.
Interesting note @ 138
Just a thought on player sizes – the above reminded me of an article I saw back in November, where someone had taken the time to work out the average height of each of the Premier League squads. Don’t ask me why they did it, but it seems vaguely pertinent here.
http://talksport.com/football/premier-league-sides-ranked-average-height-smallest-tallest-2015-151111173784?p=7
Arsenal are apparently 17th, with an average height of 181.4cm
Counter-intuitively, City’s squad are actually smaller, and 19th in the league, at 180.6cm
Spurs are pretty much where we are, at 181.8cm, as are Liverpool
Leicester are 12th, averaging 182cm, so well within range of us.
Here’s the top 10 tallest squads in the league this season:
1. Stoke
2. Chelsea
3. Palace
4. Watford
5. West Brom
6. Saints
7. Man Utd
8. Sunderland
9. West Ham
10. Villa
Basically, bar West Ham and Utd, they’re all mid table or below.
I don’t think we always defend that well as a unit, but I’m not sure the size of the players is the issue – I think the issue is almost certainly in the mind/organisation of the side.
Just an observation.
In a nutshell N7, intelligence (or at least a football brain) trumps height.
I would take an Ian Wright over a Yaya Sanogo every time.
or, at the other end of the pitch, a Franco Baresi over a Jack Charlton.
N7,
Yes, ingrained defensive organisation and discipline is everything but being big, strong and quick in the Premier league doesn’t do you any harm either.
Bathgooner,
George Graham and Tony Adams made Wrighty the player he was both defensively and offensively when he moved to Highbury from Crystal Palace. I don’t ever see Per or Kos and Arsene Wenger doing that for our perennial lanky loanee Yaya Sanogo.
Height? It’s a wash, basically.
1) It takes longer for the neural transmitters (or whatever the neurologists are calling them these days) to move from the brain to the feet so tall players are generally less dexterous.
2) Kouyate and Carroll and the liike are able to get to headed balls Santi Cazorla will never dream of getting to.
Don’t ask me to chip in about weight. 😉
Dapper Dan@139: Thanks for that. Interesting read and not much if anything to disagree with. I was always brought up to believe that half the battle in stopping the other side scoring was getting them to believe they couldn’t. I don’t think any opposition thinks that of the Arsenal defence.
It’s the chips that cause the weight, bt8b. 🙂
For no particular reason reminded of that great Brian Clough line: “Anybody who can do anything in Leicester other than knit a jumper has got to be a genius.”
Not a very impressive game at the Etihad. Ibra fans have had little to excite them ….yet! Citeh have got their tactics bang on so far with two holding midfielders and De Bruyne who is by far the best player on the field in a free role and he got a super goal. PSG have looked very average tonight
PSG might have looked a bit better had it not been for three top saves by Hart, Ttg.
Y’know what… if we’re looking for a big player in the summer, should he become available, and bearing in mind he’s a rotten cunt of a big head… but if we’re really serious and in the mood to spend stupid money (big IF I know) we should really get rid of all the dead wood in our squad, like Theo, who get big wages and would command a big fee and …. sign…
Cristiano Ronaldo.
I know, there’s no chance. Only serious clubs buy the best players and even if we could afford it, which we probably could, we’d never buy him.
We’ll pay about £30m for two defenders who can’t get into the team and give losers £140k a week though.
Lovely idea, Cynic, but now in his 30s how long has CR got to repay whatever astronomical fee he’d cost (with minimal resale value later)? And, yes, he’d be better than most, but as effective as he is in the less competitive La Liga?
As for Theo deciding what his best position is, I thought he’d done that by demanding to play up front. I reckon that is as good as written into his shiny new contract, and explains his shit form since. If he’d stuck to RW he might eventually have found some form again.
I admit I was being a tad sarcastic, Dapper Dan, when I suggested you take the conditioning role at the Ems. I was unaware of your expertise in the area and apologise. I just find it hard to grasp that our present coaching/conditioning staff could be as out of touch as many suggest.
Apropos Theo’s £140k, I understand that is practically double what Neymar is paid at Barca! Which would represent better value I wonder…
Chris @152,
I know you were mate but I decided to blow my own trumpet abit 😎
Isn’t our present coaching/conditioning staff the one that won Germany the World Cup little more than a year and a half ago? It seems a little harsh to condition the staff when the injury rate is the same as under the previous coaching/conditioning staff.
To condition the staff, or even more pertinently, to criticize it. 😉
Re-read your words Chris. Point taken about the coaching staff, which of course is different from the conditioning staff. The / is what confused me.
🙄
Bt8B,
Shad Forsythe was only with the Germany squad for the period leading up to and during the 2014 World Cup. Most of the Germany players went to the World Cup already conditioned from their clubs (mainly Bayern Munchen and Borrusia Dortmund). Moreover, who was the Germany Coach again when they won that World Cup? Was it Arsene Wenger? No, it was Jurgen Löw who pretty much left the very fine tweaking, not wholsale changing, in physical conditioning of the World Cup squad to the fitness coaches such as Forsythe. That doesn’t happen at AFC which is a day to day job during, post- and pre-season.
Chris – This repaying the investment talk is for losers, especially when you look at the wages and fees we’ve paid in the last decade for pretty much zero return.
Resale value? Also nonsense. You buy a player like him at his age and you’re buying to win trophies, you’re not buying to do ok and get your money back by selling him on.
Sometimes you have to take a risk.
We’ll never do it because the manager we have doesn’t have the stones to take the chance. He’d rather not bother and weave fantasy tales about how he almost bought him (did you notice him doing the same thing with Mahrez the other week? Pathetic rubbish) than actually buy the bloke and risk having a player who will cost a fortune, but lift the entire club just by being around. He’d be Bergkamp in the effect he’d have in lifting the place. You wouldn’t have thousands of empty seats if he was in our team, and yeah I know they’re already paid for but sometimes you have to forget about money and do the right thing from a sporting point of view.
We can afford him, but we will never buy him or anyone like him.
Chris@153: I wouldn’t be too worried about Neymar slipping into abject poverty. He might be on only (only?) £77,000 a week but he is guaranteed a minimum of £152,000 a week over the five-year life of the contract once bonuses are taken into account. And that is the money we know about.
Cynic@ 159- Am with you. With Wenger its always about resale value. Sometimes its good but not all the time especially if you have any ambition of winning something major. Hopefully we can sell some of our British core because to me they have really not lived up to expectation( bar one or two) How in the world is he going to buy Ronaldo now, when he couldn’t even buy him when he was way younger and we lost him to Manu. He needs to focus on coaching and leave the buying/negotiation to people I assume their job is to do that. To me that’s the main reason why I blame him mostly and not Kroneke for whatever stale position we have been in for the past 6-7 years.
Interesting drinks , most interestingly the Ronaldo speculation. I am very much of the view that if you signed him now you would get three very useful years out of him and as Cynic said he would lift the club so much. He’d also shift a lot of replica jerseys!
Having said that I was profoundly disappointed with Ibra last night. He looked a busted flush as he so often has when I’ve seen him. Yet he wins big matches but do we really need an erratic, inconsistent superstar? Of his age? Cavani was also very disappointing and made Otamendi and Mangala look top defenders which they manifestly aren’t. So there is a big risk with totemic players.
I do have it on decent authority that very preliminary talks were held about Messi joining when Sanchez eventually arrived. The version I was given suggested that Gazidis couldn’t persuade Wenger to invest that amount of money. If that is true it does suggest that those who accuse Wenger of being as much an accountant as a manager have a point.
On another point I am amazed that the world’s greatest striker Andy Carroll hasn’t been assured of a place in the Euros. I’ve never heard so much rubbish spoken about a striker as I have that bloke. He is Ricky Lambert with knobs on and it will be a very brave and stupid manager who takes him to France. He won’t stay fit and will almost certainly be carded in every game. Honestly you’d think he was a cross between Shearer and Geoff Hurst the way the media has reacted to one good game against a team who stopped defending.
And also nice to see that the FA Cup is a big trophy if it’s won by West Ham…but not Arsenal( TalkShite this evening)
1 nil to Atletico Madrid. Defensive organisation of the highest quality in full spectacle. You gotta admire Simeone’s anti-football. What a tactical genius!
Can we please hire Diego Simeone. At least we won’t be conceding goals like crazy.
2-0 Atletico Madrid. Barcelona going home.
Who is the bigger club.
If that’s even possible I dislike Simeone’s anti-football team more than Barca. It felt like watching a game with the italian teams of 80s-90s, all playing the same boring catenaccio that got them trophies along with empty stadiums for a decade, which they have not yet recovered from. Football in Italy was a craze more than in England or Spain, now you’ll find more football fans in Germany and France than Italy.
Dapper @139 – your comment about our training regime – I would like to know as to what is your source of all the inside information about the drills that take place on the training ground? As for playing without the ball – our three best away performances of the last couple of seasons have been City away and Bayern away twice. And on all three of those occasions we played for majority of the games without the ball and did stellar jobs of it. The problem isn’t really an inability of playing without the ball but that of not taking the lesser teams as seriously as we do some of the bigger teams. Also could you please elaborate what exactly you mean by “instinctive and automatically indoctrinated defensive mindset running through a club such as Barcelona “…The way I see it – teams are either instinctively attacking or defensive. Barcelona are in no way instinctively defensive. They are an attack minded team by instinct. Atletico are instinctively a defensive team. Arsenal are an instinctively attacking team. So I just don’t get what kind of defensive indoctrination are you ttalking about at Barcelona!!
And as for tonight’s Champions league tie – phenomenal job by Atletico to prevail over Barcelona. It was a tremendous team performance and the way they played is perhaps the only way to get the better of this Barcelona team. But for those wanting Simeone at Arsenal – I am sorry but that is not the kind of football I would want to watch every single week… Against the likes of Barca understandable but to always play with a defensive mindset would be really boring…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Matt- I don’t get the whole anti-football thing. They scored 2 and Barca, I guess were playing pro- football and score 0 as in zero. I get bored of watching Barca.