The Longest Night?
Feb 1st, 2017 by 'holic
Twenty-four hours on. You expected my mood might have improved, that I would find the words to at least try and make sense of last night, But I’m afraid not. With apologies for starting off me, me, me, I should put what follows into some context.
The match started a string of just miserable fortune. The relative pleasure at making the penultimate train rather than the last being taken away by the train manager. “Passengers for Didcot Parkway and Swindon, please change at Reading where a bus replacement service awaits you.” It was after one when finally I made the duvet, but the events of the evening had prompted whatever keeps one in a state of insomnia to take control of whatever passes for my grey matter. In pure darkness the mind whirled through what had just happened.
Not everything was negative. In fact the evening had started well with an hour and a half in excellent company in the Gunners, followed by a swift couple with a not-seen-enough drinker of this parish. Talk turned to our chances of getting a result at the bus stop in Fulham on Saturday after extending Watford’s miserable run. A gentle stroll to the stadium, a chat with el Presidente and the neighbour, and all seemed well with the world.
It was at this point that things took a turn for the worse. As we took our seats the rain that had been promised arrived, and would spend the next ninety minutes getting progressively worse. In row seven we were getting a proper soaking. There is no doubt that it had dampened the enthusiasm of the home support as well. The lack of strong support off the pitch was no excuse for a similarly quiet start on it.
The omission of Hector Bellerin and Theo Walcott had raised eyebrows in the build-up, but Gabriel has covered well for the Spaniard of late, and Alex Iwobi has something about him so that would be ok, surely? But it wasn’t. The Arsenal that started so slowly in many recent fixtures returned with a vengeance. No pressure on the visitors from the off, no urgency, and a collective inability to consistently find team-mates and dominate possession.
If Watford had expected to be hitting on the break they made the most of the carelessness that had enveloped us. They poured forward at every opportunity. You will have seen the two goals in three minutes that rocked the crowd by now. Aaron Ramsey again hobbled off with a calf injury. “Unlucky Aaron” yelled the neighbour. That was not the only view being expressed. Some of it was sad to hear.
The opening forty-five minutes were as depressing as we have seen this season. No character, no pride. Something needed to change in the second-half and to be fair, once again, it did. Yet how frustrating is it now that so often a squad that is clearly the best we have had in a decade should regularly sleepwalk their way through the first-half of matches? The darkness somehow intensified, and yet yielded no sleep.
Theo Walcott was introduced at half-time. I know not whether or not Giroud was injured but the change gave us a more threatening shape with Iwobi switching to the left where he began to torture the Watford defence. His goal was a reward for a spell of vibrant attacking play but there was a twist left on a frustrating night. Our last standing deep-lying midfielder, Francis Coquelin, left the pitch. Again I know not if he was injured but we are potentially decimated for what has become a huge match on Saturday lunch-time.
Iwobi was withdrawn to partner Oxlade-Chamberlain who almost immediately found himself reduced to a hobble too. With all three substitutes used he had to limp through to the finish and let’s hope he did not cause further damage in so doing. Our chance of rescuing a point with another last-gasp strike evaporated when Lucas smashed an effort against the bar and it came back into play.
I had not a clue what the time was as I got to this point, but still something kept me from even a refreshing nap. So the thoughts turned to how, why, who. They do, don’t they? I have to temper what follows by saying that if we can find a way of nicking a win on Saturday, by hook or by crook, we will be back in the hunt and this will appear an intolerant, needy rant. Indeed it probably is, anyway.
That doesn’t seem likely right now. Defeat at the weekend will leave us twelve points adrift of the leaders. I know mathematically that won’t be decisive, but it will signal yet again the early surrender of a realistic title challenge. You may have expected me to lead the defence of the manager tonight. Instead, in the early hours of darkness I mulled over my thoughts about him. His failure to commit to the club beyond this season, along with his two truly world-class talents, is a concern.
Yet there is also an air of relief that he is obviously considering his next step. I cannot hide my support for the job the man has done, and the success he achieved in the years leading up to the stadium move. I remain convinced he navigated us through some very choppy waters in the years of necessary belt-tightning that followed. I argued all along that he deserved to be the beneficiary of the increased funds when they became available.
That happened with the renegotiations with Emirates and the switch to Puma in 2013, plus the subsequent step change in television payments. The man delivered successive FA Cups, memorable Wembley days both, and they were thought to be the platform from which we could launch a serious title challenge. Despite improving to a last day second place finish our failure to stay the course with Leicester last season was the first time I accepted the possibility, no more than that, that Arsene’s tenure was approaching a natural conclusion.
In the oh so dark early hours of this morning I have to confess my stupid racing mind had accepted that if we lose on Saturday then I would be at a crossroads. Arsene has had the money, and indeed spent the thick end of a hundred million pounds in 2016, and yet a serious title challenge appears as far away as ever. Arsene has been the beneficiary of the funds his frugality in the lean years helped to provide. Four years on we are still ‘inconsistently consistent’.
Of course we could win at the bus stop in Fulham, sweep Bayern Munich aside on our march to the Champions League Final in Cardiff. We might survive potentially the toughest last eight in recent FA Cup memory. There is always hope, but expectation? In the early hours of this morning, in the depths of what passes for feelings, it really was very, very dark.
Turn the light on again, Arsene.
86 Responses to “The Longest Night?”
Hemlock
A first and last drink!
Good report H.
Although Ozil… not a world class talent. In my view.
Although I don’t this is correct
“the switch to Puma in 1913”
It just feels like he’s been here for over 100 years!
Cheers H!
Certainly seemed like it this morning mate, thank you.
Evening Esso.
A nightcap, an early night, and I’ll maybe feel differently in the morning.
Hope my reasoning was sound. It wasn’t an ill-conceived rant. I am a bit of a jumbled mess right now.
It was perfectly calm and considered, as always.
It was a performance to cause sleepless nights, ‘Holic. We were worse than bad in the first half, we were mediocre. Watford got their tactics spot on: press and hack in the first half and bus-park in the second before the legs ran out. Two goals in the first 13 mins (the first a lucky deflection it should be said) was a bonus for them. We got our XIs the wrong way round. Should have started with the pacey ones and then brought on Ollie G if a battering ram was still needed late on. He seemed a yard slower than anyone else last night, and given the lethargic look of the rest of the side in the first half (not a single shot on goal in the first 45 mins), that is saying something. That AW pulled him off at half time speaks volumes in itself. The other frustrating thing is to drop three points when rivals are dropping two. The half-full glass says we only slipped back a point despite a bad day at the office and then some.
I prefer your version Ned. 🙂
Thanks Cynic.
Holic
I had a similarly disturbed night noting that it was 3.35 am and sleep had not arrived…although the alarm at 7.15 did wake me! I mentioned there was a nasty moment going down the stairs by Highbury House when the in and out factions clashed.
Frankly though I’ve got great regard for Wenger and though I believe with this board it will be hard for anybody to do better ( note the struggles of Klopp and the great Guardiola this season) I would not be too upset if Wenger called it a day simply because the bickering is tearing the club apart.
The stadium which as Steve T mentioned yesterday was pock- marked with empty seats is full of plastic fans anyway and half of them seem to enjoy the booing as much as the cheering.
The highlight of my evening was seeing the great Pat Jennings looking very fit and well. The rest was a series of disappointments. My Watford mate emailed me today saying that when Iwobi scored he said to his sons that Watford would be blown away. It never happened and there were very few performances that were remotely encouraging. Ox, Sanchez ( for his effort not end- product) , Iwobi, Koscielny and Monreal were average. Lucas looked useful when he came on. The rest were dire.
Really odd that Giroud is not exactly Mr Mental Toughness and often gets embroiled in the game of not bothering to play and complaining about the slightest physical contact, yet we have given him a new contract instead of selling him.
And then the manager says we were mentally not ready for the game and I’m thinking to myself that Giroud was in that weak minded team, and would not have been given an extension, at 30, at any top club serious about winning titles. He’s not a title winning type. Not tough enough.
And that’s not to knock on him really, I’m not blaming him for last night. It just signifies the apparent softness of the way the club operates.
At least he’s a sellable asset of another year or so.
Not “of”, for.
Nothing wrong with a word you said Squire. I described it on twitter as ‘terminal’ and I stand by that.
Above is obviously aimed at H, but applies to all drinks so far as well.
Thanks Esso, means a lot.
I think you are being harsh on Giroud Cynic, although I agree his reaction to the merest of challenges on him can provoke over-reaction.
I wouldn’t start him at Chelsea, but he will still goals which are a rare commodity in the wider game. He would still command a hell of a price with his record.
Nice report H. I must admit I echo almost everything you’ve said above.
I’ve pasted my feelings from the journey home last night on here again. Funny but after 4 hours kip and the fact that I’m still not home from work have not made me feel any better.
I’m sat on the Central Line, still trying to make my way home from the game. I’ve not had a chance to look at the drinks above but I’m guessing that they are far from complimentary?
Like most, I was somewhat surprised that our 4th best centre back was preferred at right back to our best right back and arguably the best right back in the league. What followed was a Gabriel nightmare of Eboue proportions.
The first half was a poor as I can remember. I said earlier that our best defender at this time was Sanchez. It was as inept as anything I have witnessed for a very long time.
The addition of AOC for Rambo added some pace and urgency. Theo at half time made an impact straight away. He was one that impressed.
Second half was an improvement. I thought we looked dangerous on the break but clueless when we allowed them to get men behind the ball.
I’m not sure when you’re 2 down at Watford why you take Giroud off. Was he injured? If not then it makes less sense. Especially with the number of long balls that we hit hoping that Theo or Alexis would get in the end of.
I will have to see the Iwobi goal again. From where I was it looked a bit of a miss hit to be. Noth that it makes any difference.
There are those here that rate Lucas highly. Personally I really don’t understand why we bought him. He 29? I know he has had an injury but he has only made two starts in the league? If he is that good then we need to play him. I’m all for buying players to strengthen the squad but it’s the starting 11 that needed, and still needs strengthening. I just don’t get why we would spend the money and not play him?
At the end of the game most were quick to head down the tunnel. Only AOC, Theo and Cech had the decency to acknowledge those who had sat or stood in the pissing rain for two hours to be treated to that shambles. Personally, I think that speaks volumes.
I’m looking forward to the comments from those who still believe that we have a top class squad and that we are still going to win the title. I must say, you regularly watch a different Arsenal side to me.
Holic. Safe journey home. The very best of luck writing up that shambles. The one thing tonight has done is make up my mind for next season.
Drinks on the bar for everyone. By thunder you are going to need one.
To be honest, the trip on Saturday bothers me. If we play anything Luke we did yesterday then it could be carnage.
Harsh maybe, H, but he’s not a starter for a top club IMO and I do wonder about the wisdom of extending his contract, rather than moving him on and looking to improve in that area.
But then you could say “Could do better” about many of our players, sadly.
Considering your pain H,that is a wonderful post.
Couldn’t have put it better myself.
I would argue,as has been mentioned before,that Arsene has never been the same in the transfer market since David Dein left.
They were like Brothers in Arms,Arsene discussed in depth what players he had on his wish list,and DD went out and got the best of them.
Th number of top class players we have missed out on since DD left,because of Arsene’s dithering over price,has been the single fundamental reason for our failure to compete for Titles since.
I know people will say he didn’t have the folding stuff while the new Stadium was being built,but knowing DD he would have found a way.
We have been cripplingly inefficient in that regard ever since.
I would also strongly argue,we have never been the same since the break up of the Invincibles.
Top quality players were never replaced with a like for like,and on the Title front we have been fallow ever since.
When you have true leaders in your side,the rest of the squad will follow.
At the moment,and in the recent past we have had none.
I hark back to that momentous double winning side of 70/71.
They too were broken up the next season or 2 with players leaving,and not being replaced with the same quality.
The result ??
We had to wait 18 years before winning the Title again.
So cheer up H,only another 6 years to wait for the next one.!!
Clive, thank you. You know it hurts like hell to post that. There is another reason I think the time is right. I honestly believe that Arsene’s successor will suffer in the way that those who followed Matt Busby, Bill Nicholson, Alex Ferguson, etc. We can survive that because both Tottenham and Chelsea will be in the immediate aftermath of building new stadia. We can and should recover first. In Arsene’s wake I see a period of decline, a la United, but we have the set-up to recover quickly under his replacements replacement, if that makes sense. Leave it too long and we will hand the initiative to the neighbours.
Superb report, Holic.
Thank you maestro. I know that will be hurting you too.
As usual Holic a great report and there is always the question “If not Arsene then who?” Does anyone know the answer? My 16 year old is now on the Arsene out side but when I ask him who should replace Arsene I don’t get an answer. But maybe he is right and it’s time…..?
I think Wenger has to be the one calling it a day. The club will never let him go. He has to accept that he can’t take us any further, and let someone with the same hunger that he had twenty something years ago take over. He has been good to the club but the longer he remains there, am afraid it might not end up being a good departure. Personally, I think he should have announced at the beginning of the season that this was going to be it. Fans would have been coming to games expressing their gratitudes and most of this results might not be as painful as they are right now if they know that changes will be coming at the end of the season. It’s the feeling of the same old shit year in year out that is really pissing off most fans.
@Fin, it’s not our job to know who. The fans certainly wasn’t the one that hired Wenger. They need to figure it out. I doubt there will be another coach out there that will give us the same type of football that Wenger gave us all this years. Our style of football might possibly change under a new coach.
Holic,
A truly great report it takes a lot of guts and wisdom to put it the way you did! Nothing wrong with doing just that it’s a great read as always.
Why on earth we stroll around in the first halves of the games this season nobody knows, it was not for the first time we completely collapsed and as much as needed addressing it didn’t so far and that is very worrying.
I hear you Fin. The next manager is a dead man walking, but it has to happen.
Thanks Arthur. You’re a star.
Blimey Clive. Nail it so hard on the head that the vibrations would measure on the Richter scale. Something that I have believed and been vocal about for years.
@23 Sanantoniogunner – I agree that it’s not our job, but it has to be considered. Look at what happened with Man Utd post Ferguson.
H @ 18
Cannot argue with any of that.
Arsene is the last of his era.
Once he is gone,we will never in our lifetime see another Manager stay
so long at one Club.
Who the answer is to follow him,i haven’t a clue.
Steve T @27.
Yes i had noticed. !!
Cheers, Holic.
An excellent write-up – careful, considered, polite and completely justified. I’ve no idea why you feel the need to apologise or mitigate a single one of the ideas expressed.
You know how things have been for me recently. Well, last night I took Erin with me for the second match running, as a bit of reward and relief, as she has been a star for me for a good many weeks now.
Although her own enthusiasm seems undiminished ny Burnley and Watford on the trot, I have to say that, despite extreme tiredness, I absolutely shared your thoughts and your sleepless night.
Why did we play a centre half at right back and expect him to go racing up the wing and fire in dangerous crosses ?
The presence of Ramsey in midfield and Giroud up front from the start, sets us up for a pattern of play that is slow, immobile and utterly predictable.
How much better the second half when our pacier forwards were able to run behind the Watford defence insread of standing back-to-goal in ffont of them ?
Esso found the right word – terminal.
There is, sadly, a terminal stubbornness about the manager’s selection policy, just as there is a terminal mental fragility about the team every time the chance is there to make a proper statement of intent in the biggest competitions. The team seems to be unable to muster the desire to start these games with the required intensity – a sloppiness that last night saw a match we should have won, lost before we got started.
And, of course, we need say no more about our terminal injury situation.
These issues have become characteristics of the club. A club rebuilt and fashioned by Arsene Wenger over the last twenty years. He has done a job that very very few, if any, could have equalled.
He has given us the best of times and more recently a few of what feel like the worst of times.
Change is inevitable in everything. I’m surprised and sad to find myself less worried by the prospect.
We may fail with the new guy but at least we’d be failing in new and different ways 🙂
In the mean time…
https://www.instagram.com/p/BP94wzDAc2z/?r=wa1
Holic @18,
If we have to have an “interim” replacement before achieving success again with his replacement, could the interim appointment please be Jose Mourinho, just for the pure joy of sacking the horrible little turd …?
No epl team is unbeatable. MU were nearly beaten although they dominated the game according to the stats,someting which the fm always uses.If you don’t score you don’t win. You may you are unlucky but the plain truth is goals win games and nothing else.
Another defeat to Chelsea and the ES faithfuls will say enough is enough.
The problem is the fm is delusional and cant see te woods for the trees.His obsession with ball possession a nd reluctance to shoot is playing into the hands of defences.
I’m afraid he has bee n at the ES for far too long.Even top performing bosses have been known to last less than 2/3 years.
Fine piece Guvna. I’m not in such a dark place, maybe because I chose not to attend and sent the bathlets instead.
It does sound an awful game to watch but we’ve been there before with teams including several of our legends. I recall games at THoF against Boro and Charlton when similarly unexpected home defeats shook us, and that’s long before we could blame Aaron Ramsey and Olivier Giroud! Worse things happen at sea.
Let’s sort it out at the bus stop.
COYG
CMBD
Holic,
Obviously a tough piece to write and it seems that you’re caught up in the gloom malaise sweeping much of the world for various reasons – no shame in that.
My own reaction after Watford was one of disappointment that we failed to capitalise on other teams dropping points but not one of despair for the simple reason that I never had an expectation of the title this year.
There is a mental issue in this squad, probably even the club as a whole, that seems to hold us back. This is manifested in the “handbrake” performances like against the two Manchester clubs this season and, more recently, the rubbish first half performances against Bournemouth, Watford and others.
My opinion is that this is more the fault of team management than the team itself. Team selection and tactics are their prerogative as is the motivation of players before a game. There appear to be fault cracks in all these things.
Arsene has been a legend for this club and I’ve said before that he has earned the right to decide when he stops as manager, whether by moving to another role or leaving completely. I maintain that view but I hope for his sake and that of the club that he has already decided that should be at the end of this season.
We have the basis of a squad that should be able to compete for the title beyond the end of January. We now need a new management enthusiasm to make it happen.
In the meantime, let’s give the Chavs a good beating on their own patch and nick a score draw in Bayern to lift the spirits all round.
UTA.
Funny u lot.lamentations arnd.for mi it shows d mess granit made gettin a red n how it shows ramsy n coq can’t work at home n how giroud shud remain a sub.d midfield ddnt cofe dat allowed watford to get goin.ramsy n coq Arnt d most imaginative midfieldas.chambo changed dat.nt arsenes fault.had to wok wt wat he had.some cry he shud hav started ox but frget ox starred fr 90 2days earlia.funny he mayb injured now.our strent d midfield is now our greatest weakness
Good god.
Lol
Lots of good stuff above, following ‘holic’s heartfelt leader.
Seems to me it’s time to spend some real money. We have the bones of a decent team in Cech, Bellerin, Koscielny, Xhaka, Theo, Ozil and Sanchez. Add a quality LB, a Vidal type midfielder and, say, Griezmann and Reus and that’s a real team.
£150m should do it, helped by some substantial sales.
Oh, and we also need a proper captain who can lead by example and intimidate with personality. Any suggestions?
However, while I imagine Mourinho, Klopp, Guardiola and Conte would have little hesitation spending big in our position, would Wenger? I don’t think so.
Ooops, include Mustafi as one to keep in above.
Mustafi is an odd one for me. Has a great record in the results column but looks shaky every time I have seen him play, with an error strewn performance almost every time.
Trev
Thats is a sick thought! 🙂
I think there’s a weariness about debating all this anymore. An exhaustion. We know what “it” is, this big malaise, but nobody -especially Wenger – can do any thing about it or fully understands it. I would have thought the lack of on pitch leaders and non-playing captains (given talismatic leaders were a huge feature of Wenger’s first 10 years) and the acceptance of achievement levels (ie, top 4 and last 16, the off FA Cup) which would not be tolerated by the other big 3 (or big 1 or 2 in other European countries) are two things to look at for sure. But who cares anymore ? “It” surrounds us like a big black cloud and the Manager simply cannot prepare and prime the players for the matches that matter at the times that matter. Several players are simply damaged goods at this stage. They’re the failed British core, or they’ve played in those hammerings against Big 3 or 4, or those dreadful CL first leg defeats, or they experienced losing to Birmingham in a LC Final. Then the new guys come in, try to change the mould but seem powerless to stop themselves getting gripped with the same anxieties. It all adds up and the common denominator is a man who can’t fix it, can’t reset the mindset and who has been instrumental in leaving the bar a certain height, but no higher. The high jump bar so to speak, not a bar like this fine establishment you understand. “It” was fairly clear 3 years ago and now, having spent almost 200 million quid, it’s crystal clear. I hope he sees it too and helps us transition to a new dawn and a more interesting and vibrant place. COYG.
Nice piece Holic. Try and stay away from high windows and bridges. After the game I took my usual defensive position after a defeat. I stayed off the internet and am only just venturing back.
The game was cold, wet and miserable and for once I put the blame firmly at the boss’s feet tactically. Wrong team, right half time change, wrong late change (not Lucas’s fault, it unbalanced the team. Should have brought on Bellerin). I completely agree with Delia about the crowd not being there, empty seats all around on the North Bank. For a game not on the TV!
Still, if we beat Chelsea .. (front line of Sanchez, Walcott and Danny please, midfield including the Ox)…you never know.
Thank God for beer (and other spirituous liquors)
Hard to beat in the Cups…
Not quite good enough in the League…
It’s 1995…has anyone got Bruce Rioch’s number ?
TTG, don’t know if it was a serious question in the last drinks about me getting a Sutton ticket but not a hope! There are 1100 away scheme members (I’m not one – I have 15 away credits and occasionally take up other tickets of high credited friends when they can’t make it e.g. City away this year) and they will be balloted for the 750 ish tickets we’ll get. The touts could make an absolute killing on this one.
I appreciate the general mood. For my part, I started the think the unthinkable after last year’s FA Cup loss to Tuesday evening’s opponents.
However, despite the comments above I believe strongly that those calling for a change do have a responsibility to provide some detail s the change they would like.
As Arsenal supporters, we share a huge privilege in the consciousness of our glorious past achievements and, for most, memories of some of the more recent. There is a noticable difference in attitude towards prospects for the season between supporters of the leading clubs. Obviously Chel$ki fans look forward with confidence and joy; they suffered a miserable time last season when their preferred manager proved to have the clay feet that many here suspected of him and they have recovered to have a good run for much of this season. Middlesex-based fans have the unusual experience of being able to look down at us and seem, for the present, able to banish memories of many end-of-season implosions. Scousers seem to share a mood similar to ours despite their shiny new manager, they have suffered some recent reverses and unlike the tinies have persuaded themselves that history will repeat itself and there is no hope for the immediate future. Oilers’ fans also have a shiny new manager, who attracted cartloads of praise earlier this season but is finding out how competitive the Premier League is and how unwilling the lesser teams are to lie down and die. Which brings me to the Rowdies and their odious new manager; suddenly the League Cup isn’t quite as contemptible a trophy as it used to be.
I agree Wenger isn’t perfect. However, when I read many of the comments following disappointing results, and especially following downright bloody awful results like Tuesday’s, I think I detect more than a few echoes of disppointment and bewilderment that things aren’t as good as they might be. I simply warn everyone to be careful what they wish for; even the things that I wish for – generally a win in the next game – have potentially unwelcome side-effects.
COYG
‘Holic,
You have always given the manager the staunchest of support and that was one of the reasons why I quickly settled down in this bar years ago. It truly is heart breaking to see that you of all people have practically given up on the gaffer. If you think his time is up, then it probably is.
The thing is, you just documented what we all have known secretly/subconsciously to be true but, in my case, refused to countenance. Wenger’s time may be up.
However, he’s not alone in that situation. The board should retire en masse (with at least a quarter of the squad right behind them). I personally don’t believe that the board as it is constituted presently have any real desire to change the status quo and make Arsenal truly great. They, in conjunction with Wenger, have done their bit and put club at the periphery of greatness, but it’s obvious they can do no more. No manager in global football will be a able to do much better than Wenger with this board at the helm of affairs.
It would be fitting to send off arguably the greatest manager in the history of the club in grand style but alas, he may be better served just walking away come what may in May.
Thank you Goonerholic for your time and efforts and thank you esteemed patrons of this wonderful virtual institution, it has always been a pleasure to read and rub minds with true Gooners.
Forgive my not too coherent ramblings.
UTA
Pangloss
We all know the next game can change the world in footballing terms that’s how we fans think and function. Winning against Watford should have been a top priority if we are keen on winning silverware this season.
I’s not just disappointment it’s a reoccurrence that clearly gives something to ponder about. Time and time again this season we were dire in the first half. Why is that? Who’s fault is it? Do we blame the players or the manager? Who will provide the answer? Surely not the fans nor the players, it’s the boss who should at least have some of them.
Before the Watford game: ” We are strong mentally”
After the Watford game: “We were not ready mentally”
So who preps them? Who encourages them? Who sets out tactics? Who picks the squad?
At a crucial moment in a season when us fans still have glimmer of hope and we get this horse manure in the first 45 minutes? Then suddenly we play like a different team in the second half? It’s plain to see perhaps we need to start the games like we start the second halfs as we are certainly capable of doing just that.
It’s also the same old syndrome that makes you think perhaps change is not so bad after all. I know some of us don’t like change but perhaps a new vision is exactly what this club needs. It will eventually happen either way it’s a matter of time.
I believe strongly that those calling for a change do have a responsibility to provide some detail s the change they would like.
We have no responsibility at all, we’re not employed to do the job of selecting the new manager.
Whenever this comes up, I repeat the following :- If you can say that you would have picked Arsene Wenger to replace Bruce Rioch, you can ask me who I’d pick to replace Wenger.
I wouldn’t have picked Ricoh to replace Graham and certainly would never have replaced Rioch after just one year, and definitely not with Wenger.
And if anyone else would like to claim they would have, I can only say… fibber!
Oooh, half century *raises bat to crowd, waggles it at the pavilion*
The funny thing of course is, as others have hinted, that a victory at Chelsea would be completely true to pattern. Pressure off somewhat, big points gap again, have to go for it. Illogical, when you think of Kante and Matic licking their chops and devouring our midfield (if you can call it that) but we’ve seen so many of these bouncebacks followed by mini-runs. I also think he’ll play Walcott, Sanchez and Perez up front for this one, pulling Iwobi back, our first look at Iwocoq if you will ! Ox gone I think and if he’s going to be at all doubtful, do not play/risk him. These early subs are a disaster when you want impact alter on. Hope it’s not wishful thinking this time, but god I’d love a win and a bit of form for taking on Bayern second leg, for which I’m very lucky to have a ticket. COYG.
*pavilion – ??*
Countryman – great post in the previous bar, by the way.
Solid Gooner – good stuff @48.
Brilliant post, sums up a lot of things that we feel. Arsene is so much a part of Arsenal that it is difficult to say anything against him but his time is up. It is not a bad thing to accept and move on, for the board will never sack him.
We cannot beat chelsea barring a miracle. We do not have the mentality to do so. Yes we won at home but that is how we need to have played most of our games, quick, incisive and bold. Now we are lumbering along, aimlessly. A midfield of ox and niles will be run over by matic and kante and costa always has a field day against our center backs. Again big game means our big names need to turn up and perform and win games. Can Alexis and Ozil do that?? they will be man marked almost throughout the game so it is in them to prove.
Supposedly the players have been given a day off from training after the watford game. This astounding attitude of taking their mind off from their pathetic performance just shows how well they are protected. They should have had double training sessions and made to realize how poor they were in more ways than one.
If we truly have the so called mentality and unity and cohesion and what not, beat chelshit on saturday or else just accept we do not have the balls.
Fair comment, Cynic. Maybe I should have expressed myself differently.
Perhaps I would respect the opinions of those calling for change a great deal more if they some details of the change they would like comes closer to my view. I think the responsibility is one you owe yourself.
COYG
Eloquently put, Guv’nor.
The question that provoked my insomnia on Tuesday night — here in Chicago, some hours removed from the event — was not whether the manager should leave. That question is academic. Instead, I kept asking myself, will he? Before Tuesday, I thought that unlikely; now it seems quite a different matter.
Well without naming specific names I can tell you why I would like the change.
We keep failing in the same ways and have done for over ten years.
We have one of the worst injury records in the country and I suspect the fault lies in the training methods we use and perhaps even the makeup of the pitch and the training ground.
We have gone through the mythical lean financial years, which are used to excuse failure, and results are really no better even though we are splashing silly money on some very very average players. Many of whom are playing in the kind of comfort zone provided by the way the club is set up, where a winning mentality is not required.
All of this lies at the feet of our manager, who has far too much power at the club and is responsible for those three things. And a lot more.
@ 50 Cynic, am with you in regards to this same old question of who to replace Wenger with. Its not our job. If we have competent board members you will think they would have started thinking and working on a list of coaches for the past year. They are fine with the status quo “top four”. The onus is going to be on Wenger walking away. Comparing other new managers that are struggling right now to prove a point in regards to Wenger makes no sense. He has been in the Premier league for more than twenty years. These are managers that have recently won titles in the previous leagues, of course they will struggle. Conte is new too for the records, and bar something crazy happening he will win the league.
Cynic – You make again very good points @58.
I agree that there is a pattern to the problems that beset us. I think those problems are likely to be hard to fix, and I disagree with many here who post asserting that a failure to fix them is down solely to lack of effort.
I agree that the manager is responsible (there’s that word again) for fixing them and he should face criticism for the failure to do so.
I can’t agree that changing manager would lead to a solution to those problems without knowing a great deal more than I do about the proposed replacement. Even if names were in the frame, I would probably not know enough to form an opinion.
I’m far from convinced that “any action” is better than “no action”. I’ve said before that in this case, at least, I incline more towards “steady as she goes” than to “time for a change”. I’m more open to the idea of change than I have been in the past, but I’d really like to know what that change is, how it would differ from the current approach and why I should believe it will represent an improvement.
Thanks Trev.
Pangloss, you have a point in saying no to change for change’s sake. There should be a clear and definable pattern detailing the direction in which the club is headed and what it would take to get there.
Knowing about the proposed replacement and how his/her name was arrived at will change absolutely nothing as even though we deserve to be carried along in this most serious decision making process, fans and supporters are treated as cash dispensers.
It has been made clear over the years that the only input expected of us is monetary
Like someone said above, the manager leaving is academic but the task of replacing him with the right person is far more delicate and difficult than most of us would imagine. The responsibility of replacing a colossus in the person of Arsene Wenger on a good day is a thankless task but it becomes even more so when you consider the make up and mind set of the body of persons consigned to said task.
My prayer is that we get that decision right because it may be the most defining moment in the history of our great club.
A change is needed, but to what extent really? The answer to that question scares the pants off me.
Arsenal FC has a deep lying issue. Changing Wenger alone will solve little. The structure is faulty (on the sporting side at least). I don’t have the foggiest notion as to what the solution is but changing the major decision makers would be a strong start.
Some excellent if differing posts from a number of people. This is such a sensible place to debate things unlike the Emirates Stadium or its environs where much more heat than light is generated especially on match days!
For Holic who is the most measured and sensible of observers to comment as he did about Arsene was a sad but inevitable consequence of yet another season of what might have been. Arsene has spoilt us all and I am enormously grateful to him.
No we haven’t replaced the Invincibles but you don’t replace a team like that especially when you have to fund the purchase of a new ground by selling your best players.
I very much agree with Clive about David Dein. In a sense they were like Clough and Taylor. Great together but lose one and the one left behind suffered and was never as effective
Dein was the one who persuaded the board to sign Campbell and Bergkamp ( on Wenger ‘s advice from Japan) and who got ridiculous sums for Anelka and Overmars et al when we came to sell them . He is an Arsenal fanatic and believed we should use Wembley until we could redevelop Highbury. Was he wrong? He also brought in Kroenke and Usmanov.
I don’t think this board with this owner will have the balls or acumen to sign the sort of manager who could outperform Wenger. A fractious git like Simeone is not their style and I suspect we will choose Eddie Howe and two years later be looking for another manager.
Any Americans who I have discussed Kroenke with regard him as one of the least impressive owners in the NFL or MLS . Arsenal is such a cash cow for him that he will never sell it unless it goes into a profit dive of epic proportions . And then it will be worth less and be less attractive as a buy. He will employ Wenger until he is 75 if he wants to carry on and no one on that board will gainsay him.
Don’t think that waving goodbye to Wenger will make anything better. It will just reintroduce us to a level we left behind in 1995. So we are left in limbo. Stay in the top four to general derision or employ someone different but almost certainly not better. It’s a conundrum only a new owner with an entirely different approach might employ. Someone like David Dein with a lot more money…..and who would Dein choose for our manager? You’ve guessed it!
Countryman
I was serious about Sutton but suspected that you might have little chance. It would be an experience but maybe one that the Sutton fans deserve to enjoy first
Doesn’t matter if he’s a “better” manager as long as he gets better results 😉
“I would respect the opinions of those calling for change a great deal more if some details of the change they would like comes closer to my view”
Not sure that’s exactly what you meant either, Pangloss (#56) 😀
Had AW been moved on a few years ago, as I and some others favoured (while acknowledging his record and reluctant to see him go), we might have been in line for one of Klopp, Conte or Guardiola, or even (wash my mouth out) Mourinho. But now they’re all taken and the field of potentials is looking thin. Simeone, no thanks. Pochettino? Howe? Tuchel? Any others? The names don’t quite have the same ring.
Perhaps we should accept the fact, bite the bullet and spend a year or two out of the top 4 with an interim manager, and wait for, say, Guardiola to see a far more famous club than Manchester’s Also-rans as more befitting his reputation.
Or we could also sell out to Usmanov and go the Chavs, $iteh route to trophies.
A challenge and a half to those of us who like the club the way it always has been…
Does anyone know why Dein stopped at 42 per cent ownership of Arsenal? If he’d gone just those few per cent more back in the early ’90s things might have been very different today. I’m assuming certain board members jacked up against him?
Chris – Your placement of quotation marks @66 is incorrect and gives a significantly misleading impression of what I wrote. Please be more careful in future. Thank you.
Some efficient house keeping in here Holic since I first got up – thank you.
Thankyou ‘Holic for this wonderful bar, through which you highten the enjoyment of following the Arsenal for myself, and I’m sure many others around the globe.
I for one, hope Arsene signs up for another 2 years. He is the best man for the job.
I enjoy the football we play, most of the time!
We have an amazing squad that is coming together very nicely.
This team excites me. It’s Arsene’s team.
We’ll add another FA Cup to the cabinet this year, and be playing Champions League football next.
The League title is not far off.
Cheers.
“Not seen enough drinker of this parish”…..
Well, thankfully work paid for most of this particular visit H, as I would’ve been irked if I had shelled out my usual outlay to watch that shower of shite…..
And speaking of travel woes, Virgin managed to add 3 hours to my journey home on Wednesday, the bastards!
Here’s to better days…..
“Men against girls.”
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38543569
Which side were the girls then?
Looking at the picture closely, the Northampton manager may have snorted a bit too much white powder which may account for his base and sexist remarks.
Novelty thought for a boring Friday.
How about actually signing players instead of continually talking about how you tried to sign them, or wanted to sign them, or looked at them but couldn’t find a space in the squad? Eh, Arsene?
Source, please, Cynic.
It was from today’s presser when he was wanking on about almost signing Kante. Twice no less.
It is just that Wenger is so much a part of the arsenal that prevents a lot including me saying anything against him, atleast not abuse. Frankly he has done a lot but there is an expiry date for all, even the great man.
Who replaces him should be what the board should have worked towards as well as when. Does Ivan Gazidis has the nerve to tell the man who hired him to leave? Does replacing Wenger solve all issues? As rightly said here, it is a deep rooted problem at the club and taking out Arsene is just a bandaging the cracks.
As i mentioned earlier, the players should react after a terrible performance tuesday. They need to play as if this is their last game and need to give it all. Even after that, if we lose, i do not think so a lot will complain. It is the absolute lack of effort and intent that hurts.
Pangloss
I think it was from his presser today where he talked about nearly signing Kante. I know what Cynic means . I have very nearly slept with 586 women but negotiations broke down with 579 of them .
Did you know Wenger nearly signed Ronaldo back in the day? True story.
Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Ibrahimovic he nearly signed them all
He actually signed Bendtner, Chamakh, Fabian Caballero and Kaba Diawara . I think that’s why he tells us who he nearly signed!
TTG
He also signed Park Chu-young 😀
He also signed Yaya Sanogoals, who just happens to have been put into our Champions League squad for the rest of the tournament.
To quote today’s kids – What the ACTUAL fuck?
To think of all the gorgeous women I almost slept with is to partake in an endless wet dream of the nearly rapturous kind. But I ask you, what is the real difference between fake and actual affairs these days?
Maybe Arsene should have offered Kante a 1959 vintage bottle of Lafitte-Rothschild?
Thanks, Cynic… and TTG.
Thanks for the reasonable responses all. Tomorrow? >>>>>>>>>>>>