Lessons For The Greatest
Apr 11th, 2017 by 'holic
I remember with some sadness the decision of Muhammad Ali to come out of retirement and fight Larry Holmes to try and claim the world heavyweight title for a record fourth time. In order to get the ok to box again Ali underwent a physical examination in the Mayo Clinic. He was given the all clear despite later confessing to having tingling sensations in his hands and slurred speech.
For sixteen years Ali had fought and defeated the greats of two generations, but he was now 38, and his former sparring partner was the deserving holder of the world crown, and at the peak of his powers. Like moths to a flame the world was drawn to watch the mismatch of the century, stubbornly clinging to the hope that Ali would still be able to avoid the puncher’s fiercest shots and maybe make the dream come true.
However time had caught up with him. His doctor, Ferdie Pacheco, had left his entourage after Ali had taken severe punishment in a bout with Earnie Shavers three years previously. He had also pleaded with Ali, his family, and his corner team to retire at that point after receiving a damning medical report from the the New York State Athletic Commission.
His powers on the wane, Ali lacked the speedy reflexes that once kept him out of range of the big hitters. Holmes picked him off at will, winning every round, and he later claimed he had pulled his punches in order not to seriously hurt his one time employer. After ten rounds Ali’s trainer, Angelo Dundee, finally threw in the towel to prevent his man taking further punishment. Too little, too late.
Incredibly Ali attempted one more fight. This time nobody wanted to watch, to go through the pain of seeing ‘the greatest’ battered again. Trevor Berbick inevitably won the bout in Nassau and at long last Ali took his broken body into retirement.
You’re ahead of me, aren’t you? For the second time in my life ‘the greatest’ has gone on too long. The greatest Arsenal manager has taken more than one fight too many. His responses to his inquisitors in the press suggest he remains sharp of wit, but he says the same things over and over, and the words ring hollow. For years he rolled with the punches at Highbury, hauling himself off the canvas when other managerial giants temporarily floored him before landing a few knockout blows of his own.
After moving to a vast new gym Arsene learned the art of defending himself at all times. The title bouts dried up but he could still inflict damage on those who underestimated him. So it was with a heavy heart I have witnessed his attempts to bring those glory nights back in recent weeks. It was no real surprise that Carlo Ancelotti twice comprehensively outfought him in front of those who had cheered him to the rafters for many years. The Italian most certainly did not pull his punches and delivered a brutal 10-2 verdict.
What must have hurt more have been the humiliations by the likes of Ronald Koeman, Walter Mazzarri, and the unranked Sam Allardyce. Each one becoming more damaging than the last.
Who is Arsene’s Ferdie Pacheco or Angelo Dundee? Who will tell him that those who loved what he did when he had his strength and reflexes intact that it is time to hang up the gloves? Could David Dein hand him that bloodied towel and say “Arsene, old friend, you know what to do, don’t you”. Or will Ivan Gazidis step out from behind the cloak of invisibility and end it all?
The man should go with his head held high, and with the roars of appreciation ringing in his ears. We should not have to want to avoid witnessing one final beating. As Ali showed the legend will never diminish, but the sadness at the end of a glittering career is almost too much to contemplate.
Thank you for reading.
119 Responses to “Lessons For The Greatest”
This is beautiful, maestro. But for some reason, I haven’t got the heart to disagree.
Btw, Kaze means Wind in Japanese. I hope you’re well <3
Excellent stuff H. Well said my old friend.
Japanese Wind? Reminds me of the aftermath of a great night out I had some time ago.
?
Welcome Kaze. I hope you are well.
Thank you Kaze 🙂 and haha, Steve. Thank you both.
Last night was all too predictable. The sort of kamikaze football we are playing at present was a gift to a palace side containing among others, a rejuvenated Benteke, and it made you wince when the usual zonal marking farago left Theo to take him on. Next Monday, we travel to Boro, a team we should beat in our sleep but will probably be fortunate to draw with. Add to this a referee of true incompetence in Anthony Taylor, and its not looking good.
We are told that the board are fully aware of the situation , and there are all sorts of rumours of a director of football being appointed, and Wenger being told to have a root and branch clear out of the playing and even the coaching staff. How ironic it would be if, when finally we are prepared to compete for the best players, we cannot offer the CL football they will demand. Surely Kroenke must be concerned at the near certainty of losing tens of millions of income from CL participation. At the current rate of decline, especially given our run-in, we could even slip out of a Europa place.
To hear the manager tell us that ‘now is not the time’ in answer to the question he has been telling us for some time he has decided upon, speaks of a hubris incredible given the near meltdown the club is experiencing.
Arsene, we will forever be grateful for the success and the incredible times you have given us, and if you choose to go now, we will all still love you. So accept our thanks and your silver cannon in its presentation box, as you don’t deserve to be overseeing what is surely to come; and as ‘Holic says, remember Ali.
That can’t have been easy to write, but it’s excellent all the same. It’s quite sad to hear and read people like the two ‘blogs (Gunner and Arse – what a double act) and yourself, who are still deeply involved with the club, putting such views forward, though you all do it so eloquently.
I’ve never felt so detached from it all, personally.
Wenger out yet???
Gunner and Arse – like Statler and Waldorf but with even less hair (unless Bloggs has imitated his alter ego and gone the full Nesbitt tonsorially)
Cynic, few here know your history and will know that our current plight hurts you as much as anyone. You’re not kidding me!
Thank you Biscuitbum.
Hehe, ?
I’m listening to that when the final whistle blows in Turin, Cynic.
I will take Allegri in a heart beat. How low Has Wenger become as a top coach? Please resign if you really love this club as much as you claim you do.
Holic
That is a beautifully written piece and captures the feelings of those who love Arsene for what he has done for the club. Cynic’s piece earlier today underlines the fact that he never convinced everyone, there is the ‘ he inherited a great team argument ‘ ( a team and a back four that nearly got us relegated in 1995) and writing for the Gooner I remember he was attracting criticism in 1999/2000/2001 for falling short of honours.
There is also the revisionist ‘ what has Wenger ever done for us’ argument too. Remember United have slipped from champions to also ran in recent years which shows finishing in the top four isn’t a given. So the years of title famine were still remarkably more productive than most clubs manage .
Watching Barca get hammered at Juventus reminds me of the night we went to Turin and played them off the park. That seems inconceivable now as the game has moved on and Arsene has faded. Things change but Arsene hasn’t really and that’s the problem. The risible TalkShite were suggesting Allardyce for the Arsenal job today. He did outcoach Arsene last night but that was the first time in years and then it wasn’t coaching it was butchery that prevailed.
Arsene’s issue is that he hasn’t changed, hasn’t evolved and he seems incapable of learning or admitting that he needs to change. Is that arrogance or a touching belief in his own way of doing things? As Holic says he needs to be saved from himself but first he has to listen.
It honestly stopped hurting after the stadium move I think. I still get pissed off with everything but it doesn’t bother me for ages afterwards and when we’re shit, as we were last night, I find myself thinking that as we’ve already lost (at 3-0) we might as well do it in a manner that sees Wenger out of the door as quickly as possible.
I never want us to lose a game, but when we are doing so and we’re as abject as that, I must admit that if 7-0 would get him out, I’d rather lose 7-0 than 3-0.
After all, we’ve nothing to chase and obviously no pride to play for if they can play like that.
His grinning in the post match interview suggests he’s going to hang around until he dies though.
Take a bow Maestro… That is a great write up.
And to all those who are taking this opportunity to take a blow at a man who is down, to all those who are coming up with revisionist theories now about how he was never that ‘great’- I have only two polite words – Fuck Off.
Lovely if painful analogy, Holic.
I was bombed out on “No Drinks” too when the server went down.
Who could have foreseen our current situation back in 2004 – or even 2006.
Sad times.
How charming.
It’s not revisionist at all in my case but I couldn’t give a fuck what you think anyway.
It’s all a right old mess. The really sad that my for me is that I genuinely don’t think it needed to be.
We moved to The Grove to be able to compete with the elite. We were told that the move would not affect the way we conducted ourself in the transfer market. It all never really happened did it?
The problems at the club do not just rest with Arsene. I firmly believe that the board are not even remotely close to being up to the task. They have been complacent in the extreme. They have clearly left all of the football side of the club to Arsene and were happy to do so. 4th every season and the Champions League on a shoestring ticked a lot of boxes.
The situation we find ourselves in now has ben coming for several years. First we allowed Cesc to leave and he was not replaced. Then there was RVP? Chastised by many at the time. I wonder, if people are honest with themselves what they really think now?
I had conversations several years ago with several fellow Gooners and Holic’s. We’ve turned a corner, we don’t need to sell anyone. The fact is that we had no one left to sell. The Crown Jewels had long departed.
We were then told about the fantastic British Core. Really? Many thought we were building a stronger squad and one capable of challenging? Again, really? For me this has always been pure spin. I’ve said for some years now that I don’t think we are good enough. Each year we have the odd flirtation with the league but it never looks like materialising and Groundhog Day is upon us.
Our transfer policy in recent years has baffled me. I don’t know if Arsene has been under specific guidelines but for me this has been one massive area of weakness for the club as a whole. Some of the recent signings have quite simply been baffling and have hardly addressed the areas of weakness.
We lack leaders, another area we have failed to address. Our last two captains have hardly played a game between them for two seasons now.
Arsene looks a beaten man and it’s all very sad. He has achieved great things and I will always be forever grateful. But he has been hung out to dry by an absent and getratric board. Usmanov sits in the wings owning in excess of 30% of the club’s shares but is unable to get a look in. Love him or hate him the situation can not be healthy.
My thoughts are that Arsene is probably ready to go. I also think that the board has no real idea of how to deal with his exit, or to select a suitable replacement.
For me it just should not be like this. I think Arsene has had his day now and it’s time for a change. But the situation we are now in has made it a lot harder to select a replacement. This all means that he is again the lone figure left to fend off the frustrated locals.
I hope the Arsene is allowed to leave with his head held high. I hope the there are major changes at board level. At the moment I would not be adverse to seeing Stan pack his bags and Usmanov taking over. Especially if it meant a role for David Dein.
Who knows what will happen? All I would say is that this mess has been a long time in the making. If action is not taken at all levels, it could take a long time to sort out.
What I will remember most about Arsene’s reign (and I think what ultimately destroyed his legacy) is his bafflingly negligent approach to the transfer market year in, year out.
Financial constraints are one thing, but this is the man who turned down Gareth Bale because we had Gibbs. The man who refused to offer the extra £0.5m required to secure the signing of Xabi Alonso on deadline day. The man who considered Higuain and Fabregas to be inferior to what we already had. The man who claims to have been interested in signing Kante this season, but did seemingly nothing to make it happen ahead of a team who finished 9th last season.
Sorry but these problems have been 10 years in the making. That they have taking so long to rear their ugly head is ironically a testimony to Arsene’s persistence, but considering where this club was 10 years ago, I find it astonishing that we have been unable to even compete, let alone dominate, domestically and in Europe, ever since.
Now that, Guv’nor, was an excellent post. One of your best in a none too shabby pantheon.
Don@21: No prime ministership ends well. Either colleagues put the knife in your back or the electorate does.
@ designer goner.. your “fuck off” comment is uncalled for. I have not yet seen a fan that said Wenger was never great. He was great at one time and his place in the history of the club will be there after we all are gone. The fan base have been understanding and respectful towards him because of all his accomplishments. But there comes a time when fans just cant keep quiet when it feels like he is taking a piss at them. What else do you want them to do? its time for a change and the longer this continues without either the club or Wenger making an announcement as to him leaving the less respectful people will be of him.
The thing is all dictators aint willing to go peacefully.Suharto and Marcos were forced out after people had enough of their misrule.
Wenger will be advised to leave rather than be sacked unceremoniously.
The problem is he thinks he can do wrong but results speak fo r themselves.The gunners may dominate possession and had more shots at goal.But if you don’t score you don’t win.Thisscenario applied to Chelsea against CP.The latter were outclassed but won.
Fans look at goals and not stats.\
The defence ha s been an issue for years but has never been resolved. Allied to the fms attacking style,is it any wonder opposing teams let the gunners overplay and overpass. Then they will hit on the counter towin.
This sums it up.
Lovely post H
From the heart i know.
After Monday nights abysmal and soul destroying non show by players supposedly representing the Club i love,and a rather dispiriting Tuesday wondering what on earth is going on at the Arse,i needed something to cheer me up and put a smile on my face.
Tonight i got it.
After the Dortmund/Monaco CL game was re organised for tomorrow night because of the Bomb attack on the Dortmund Coach,the home team supporters have set up a hashtag, ” bed for the night ” offering to take stranded Monaco supporters into their homes.
Absolute class act by the Germans.
We are of one mind about that, Clive. Such a lift. ??
Thank you for writing this thoughtful and eloquent piece.
Pedantic contribution of the day. The nearly forgotten boxer who administered Ali’s final beating was Berbick, not Berwick.
Not sure what club will administer Arsene’s final beating but at this rate Berwick Rangers might be a candidate if they didn’t play in the Scottish leagues.
I echo all the praise for your heartfelt leader, ‘holic, an excellent analogy and oh so appropriate at this time.
That said I wonder why more questions aren’t being asked of he who runs the defence, ie Steve Bould. It’s there that game after game is being lost and while AW is responsible overall we all know that his #1 priority has always been fast, flowing, football with the emphasis on attack. That has always been his forte. The art of defending is supposed to be Steve Bould’s, but I see little of it. In my opinion Bould should have been subbed by Martin Keown years ago.
I think Wenger cut Bould a bit of slack when he was first appointed, after all those years of dear old Pat Rice merely nodding sagely in agreement; and for a while it seemed as though the defence had tightened up. Now however, things have slipped back into the old ways, and there are the rumours re-surfacing that we don’t even practice proper defending. The final straw was when Wenger ‘discovered’ the dreaded zonal marking, and we know what Martin Keown thinks about that.
Chris,
Bould does not run the defence.
No names but I have it on good authority he does not.
This is probably the best piece you have ever written.
Muhammad Ali is one of my all time hero’s so this piece absolutely resonates with me Holic. The connection in their stories is bang on the money.
Wenger deserves to go with his head held high but he’s his own worst enemy, he needs to let his pride not blind him
#wengerout
So what is the point of Bould, Trev? Wenger bodyguard? Is that why he sits next to him?
Trev, did you see my link for you at 37, two rounds back? A Kiwi icon with six sons, all named Trevor.
Holic — Brilliaant Post!
Brilliant even…..
Thanks for the comments from everyone on this site. I enjoy keeping up with the Arsenal news from afar , even when it’s bleak.
I thought I would try to try seek out something slightly positive to say.
Apologies if this is too soon after the funeral to be whistling.
The easiest thing now would be to get on the players /manager’s backs for the rest of the season. But what if the supporters started doing some weird like actually trying to lift the team when their playing poorly instead of only when they’re playing well?
This is still the same side that comfortably beat Chelsea only a few months ago.
90% of our current problems are mental. Think how well players like Iwobi were playing earlier in the season.
We can still win the Fa cup this year & as for the league, I wouldn’t mind trying the Thursday night Europe games for a change.
As for Arsène. I really don’t mind if he stays on a bit longer or goes, but I do think the current uncertainty is unhelpful.
Anyway at least spring is here ,(even in Canada), and footy wise things can only get better from here surely?
holic
Spoken like a true AKB’s
Cheers H!
Drifter – spoken like a true utter piece of shit.
On the basis the above should and will get deleted, I’ll try again.
Cheers H for a moving and eloquent tribute to a great man. Biggest mess at my club since the latter days of GG.
But everything else in my life is going fucking brilliant right now. So – fucked if I’m gonna lose it over what’s happening. Arsenal have been a huge part of my life for as long as I can remember, bit they are not my life and never have been.
Up The Arse!
Steve T@19, you hit the nail on the head about it being a ‘right old mess’ from the board. They have literally been caught with their pants down because of the season we are having. They just complacently assumed that the team will produce their base minimum level top four performance and go deep in one or two cup competitions atleast. The fact that some players were bought in the summer might have even led them to overestimate how the season would go. As a result they just let the contracts of Ozil and Sanchez run down to the last 18 to 12 months – hoping that because of the customary good finish to the season, the club would be in a strong negotiating position to haggle about wages. And they just assumed that a new contract for Arsene was a mere formality to be fulfilled in due course of time. Apart from that there’s the contract situation of the British core in Ox, Wilshere, Ramsey and Gibbs (am not sure if Ramsey has a longer existing contract). If Kos, Giroud and Coq had not signed extensions a couple of months or so back, that would have meant a huge chunk of the squad facing an uncertain summer. Also we have extended contracts of Mertesacker and Cazorla by one year just recently but how much playing time we would get from either next season is unpredictable.
The board simply assumed that everything will be hunky dory and have not had any sort of contingency planning whatsoever. Even if they were assuming everything as mentioned above, there should atleast have been a realisation that this would be Wenger’s last contract and they would need some sort of succession planning as well restructuring of hierarchy to deal with the football side of things. Since they have been consistently inept, they are coming off far worse when the shitstorm has arrived. Pathetic attempts at leaking war chest stories and a return of some of the invincibles to the coaching staff are being made to show that they’re doing something.
Clubs like Chelsea can have terrible seasons and bounce right back the next season because the people running those clubs are used ins and outs of famous players and managers. The bunch that runs our club don’t have the slightest clue. I have a feeling that we could be in for a few rough years ahead.
Given that AW was offered a two-year contract extension earlier this season, presumably, the board was assuming that no successor would be needed until the 2019-20 season at the earliest. Moreover, rather like David Cameron with the Brexit referendum, I also assume there was no Plan B at the time for the eventuality that AW would not sign it. If there isn’t a Plan B now — not to say a new contingency Plan A — it would be a gross dereliction of duty in my view.
We all feel your pain, Dave.
Well the ones that matter, that is.
Very touching, Holic.
Thank you for showing it’s possible to disagree with a man’s methods without denigrating him. Thank you for the respect you have shown Arsene Wenger and all other fans on this forum and elsewhere.
There are quite a few who would do well to take a leaf out of your book.
Arsene Wenger isn’t dumb and cares far more for the club than some that hide behind the anonymity of the internet to disparage and demean his achievements.
For all his apparent weaknesses and obvious obdurateness, he has given the club a substantial part of his life. Arsene is part and parcel of Arsenal, the modern day super club. It’s his life work. He didn’t form the club and neither is he the club but to sweep all his achievements and efforts under the rug is being a tad disingenuous.
Having said that, it’s time for a fresh approach. Something has to give. A change is needed. The thing is though, the extent of that change is still being underestimated by quite a few of us.
What I do now is just supporr the club, pray we win no matter what and wait till the end of tge season when hopefully the situation of things would be much clearer.
Support the Arsenal.
UTA
What a load of bollocks from John Cross this morning. A war chest story suggesting a tired list of players we have been “interested in” for ages (and current flavour of the month with the press Wilfred Zaha-hahahaha!) with speculation about unhappy players leaving and Sanchez going to Man City.
Now I know journos read this site and drinks so if a sports editor is out there, I can do that exact same job for you and I’ll do it cheaper than the money you pay your current staff, half of whom seem to be supplying the same shite to the Daily Mail.
How about it?
SG – With all that is going on around the club, there’s no way a man who truly loves the club and puts it first would even consider staying, in my opinion, unless he is so totally blinkered and has such a huge ego that he thinks he’s the only man who can fix it.
If he really can’t (or won’t) see the damage his continued presence will cause, and that he has lost some of his most loyal followers along the way this season, he’s daft.
He’s just thinking of himself IMO
Cynic, they’ve even down-sized our new director of football too, from Paddy’s 6 foot 4 to Overmars and his diminutive 5 foot 7. Even the spin/leaks/fibs are coming up short these days.
Even if we really are going to spend £200m, would you let the bloke who bought Chambers, Mustafi, Xhaka, Perez, Gabriel etc for huge money, way overpriced in many cases, spend it?
Fuck that.
Although if we spent £200m just on Wilf Spunktrumpet I’d be cool with that. Imagine all the shirts we’d sell with that name on them.
Chris –
no, missed the links, sorry. No time much of last week.
I’ll elaborate tactfully on Bould later – have to go now.
Esso – glad to hear it.
Drifter – idiot.
Late to this party.
Masterful, maestro.
Bang on the money.
That is a truly beautiful and poignant piece of prose.
I’ll catch up on the drinks in a day or two.
Fantastic writing, great analogy
I have just finished reading John Cross’s article and one problem is that he has a reputation for being close to the club and therefore ITK. But when he talks of the likes of Lacazette coming, even he must know its BS. I’d love to see players of his ilk like Griezmann wear the red and white, but I will be appointed Archbishop before that happens. The reality is that we will be shopping for former second or third choices while the bigger clubs fight over the real match-winners.
Recent rumours of out interest in Arda Turan, a player we should have bought six or seven years ago but is now 30 or 31 may indicate an interest in former very good players who are now ever so slightly over the hill, and therefore willing to join a club like Arsenal for a final pay day. I hope this isn’t so, as much as I hate reading of our interest in the latest 13-year-old Nigerian wunderkid.
Massive LOL at £35m for Ox from Liverpool rumour. If he’s worth that, Theo is worth three times as much, if not more.
Fucking silly season is here early.
Cheers Baron Holic of Highbury,
A marvellous analogy to today’s sorry situation at our club – sorry, I mean, at the North London (UK) Soccerball Arena Franchise Inc.
Dubs
i would give him another season 😉
This is precisely what I think the situation is ‘Holic. Great piece. We all have a shelf life, a time when we’re in our prime before we need to find a shadow to fade into, a tree to sleep under until we pass away. For our players it was once West Ham – Chippy, Wrighty, Nutty et al. For poor old Arsene it’s probably the French or Chinese league. As you say, the big question is who’s going to tell him?
Great stuff mate.
Steve T @ 3, cheers me old mucker! Haven’t seen you at the Tollie in a while but I haven’t been attending in the same way that I used to when I was younger, maybe my dissatisfaction has been expressing itself in my lack of fervent attendance…
It’s good to be back in the drinks though, even with a new name that means the same as the old one, I’ve been away for far too long 🙂
Remember, Kaze means Wind in Japanese… 😉
Clive @ 24, it’s so good to hear from you sir! I’ve been remiss in my lack of communication on my side, life’s just been hectic and I’ve been doing a fair bit of growing up but I’d love to clue you in. Is it still the same email? Let me know my friend 🙂
It has probably happened before but I can’t remember Sky ever booting a match off their tv schedule and replacing it with another one.
Our home match with Leicester on the 26th April is now no longer going to be shown by Sky. They’re replaced our game. With Palace vs Spurs.
Evening all. Thank you for the kind words. Hope all of you are well.
I will be if my horse in the 8pm at Dundalk stops behaving like a dressage nag on its way to post and actually gets to the stalls.
Who needs horses if you’ve got beer? Especally if your horse looks like a?
Chris @31. –
I have a patient who is a family friend of someone very much at the centre of the club. Apparently Bould has nothing to do with coaching the defence. Moreover, there is incredibly little or no coaching of the defence full stop.
When first promoted, Bould was coaching defence and set pieces, both defensive and attacking, but once the first set piece routine was known and countered by opponents, no further examples were permitted.
On match days, Bould is instructed to stay in his seat unless otherwise directed.
I found it hard to believe when I was told by both the patient and his father – both Arsenal season ticket holders – but I was assured that is what they were told.
This would all seem rather incredible if it weren’t for the evidence on the pitch.
Holic,
Just re-read the main piece at leisure.
Beatifully put together.
A prime example of Wenger not wanting anyone else to do anything, which is why all the talk of coaching shakeups and directors of football are smoke and mirrors.
He will not let go of the reins, someone’s going to have cut them.
I hope the horse did the business Cynic.
Trev, thank you. That means so much coming from you.
This season was that Holmes fight.
Berbick can and must be avoided. 😉
Run like the Wind !!
Great to see you back in the Bar.
Just dug out our last email communication,3yrs next month.
Time flies.
Yes,my email address is the same.
Look forward to hearing all your news.
Hopefully you will become a regular in the Bar again.
I need all the help i can get,as we are being overrun by the desperate and dateless, and the whiners and the moaners who are in their element at the moment after a run of poor results.
The players aren’t doing themselves any favors with some insipid displays of late,the reasons for which can only be speculated at from the outside.
But clearly all is not right at our beloved Club.
Might get worse before it gets better unfortunately.
But we have been down this road before in the past and have come through it,and i am convinced we will do so again.
Look forward to hearing from you
It wasn’t my horse haha. I misread the colours… which was just as well as it came stone bonking last and mine was placed.
Stunned by your Bould revelation, Trev. But the evidence is there match after match.
Memo Arsene, I am prepared to do Steve Bould’s job for half what you pay him. Assuming you pay him at all that is. Or is his front row view of every match considered payment enough?
That £200m ‘war chest’ is premised on half of it coming from selling ten or a dozen of the existing squad, and on estimates for what those players are worth being realistic. Which begs the question already questioned above … £35m for Ox?
Back in the real world I imagine AW will have more like £150m of which, being Arsene, he will only spend half spread over 3 or 4 players from Lens or Auxerre in French Ligue Deux when what we really need is Griezmann, Mbappe and some solid defenders. And someone more creative, or more involved at least, than Mesut to drive the midfield – say Emil Forsberg. Where is my long-time favourite Reus you ask? I think that boat sailed long ago and anyway he’s looking too injury prone at this stage of his career.
Isn’t speculation wonderful? No, not really. I just can’t wait to see this season end.
Hols, I got tears right now, maestro. Tears. This is amongst your most eloquent missives, and I am deeply moved. This means so much to us all…thank you for sharing this vulnerability. I hope dignified resolution comes quickly.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Kaze, great to see you’ve breezed in again.
Trev@63: If your patient’s report is accurate, that is quite remarkable and raises the question, what’s the point of Steve Bould?
Cynic@52: £35 million for a 23-year old with 25 England caps and a year left on his contract doesn’t seem impossible in the current inflated transfer market, especially if a bidding war could be ginnied up. A more realistic valuation of the Ox would be £20 million in my book.
Cynic
Just to clear up a point I was not accusing you of being revisionist. I know you have held very definite views for definite reasons on Wenger for some time. I don’t happen to agree with you but I absolutely appreciate why you hold them. The revisionists are the people who have turned against Wenger after being big fans of him. I don’t think that you have ever enjoyed the Wenger era as much as the past and you are not alone in that.
Really nice piece Guv’nor.
If you don’t want to keep receiving the hammers while down, stay off the ring. It’s not hatred, it’s being professional and reasonable.
My two cents.
TTG @ 73, I’m sure it won’t bother you In the slightest, which is good, because I don’t wish to offend. I couldn’t disagree with you more. The “revisionists” are the key agents of change here and the bravest contributors of all right now.
@74 , sorry, just to revise that, Christ…old age.
ScGooner
In that sense you could call me a revisionist.
I wish I hadn’t used the word! What I’m referring to are people who are not giving full credit to Wenger for his past achievements and airbrushing a lot of what he did to put this club on the footing it is now- and the notion that if he hadn’t inherited a defence we wouldn’t have won the league in 98. He was brilliant in his first 8 years and pretty good after that for a long while but the cracks began to appear after 2008
Most of this bar, I’m surmising would like a change but most are fully recognising what Wenger has done for the club. Holic’s title piece here sums up the difficulty many of us have in wianting change very well
Yes,with you on the inherited defence completely actually, since he rebuilt it superbly for 2003/4. But 2008 was nine years ago ! Since then he has shown little real ability to deal with the tactics and economics of the modern game. Nor any inclination to surround himself with any individuals to help him with same. I also think a lot of people misinterpret the stadium years. He loved trying to build a young, cheap team. It suited his scouting instincts and he thought FFP was going to bite. If it had worked his legacy would have been immense. This has not been going wrong for one or two years as you yourself agree by pinpointing 08…and I accept as we all do that Kroenke hasn’t helped. Anyway I’m sounding boring, raking over the same old ground. Sun is shining, work to do. Cheers TTG, I enjoy your posts.
TTG – The earlier drink wasn’t to you it was to being told to fuck off by someone else. You were an innocent bystander. Sorry if you felt I was having a pop, I wasn’t.
@ Chris – Are you really surprised by the Steve Bould thing? Don’t forget that for years it was said that Pat Rice’s only role at Arsenal was to put cones out and do the warm up.
@ Ned – Spot on with that valuation, the story is nuts anyway. Ox is a bit James Milner for me, Liverpool would be much more interested in someone like Theo I think. Wide players capable of scoring 20 goals are rare and he will have done it twice (probably) come the summer.
Thanks Cynic- I thought it was very unlike you.
This bar is the place I come to because even if we disagree we do so in an entirely adult way. And I think most of us agree on the main thing at the moment anyway.
Have a good Easter!
ScGooner
You make a very good point. I’ve written a piece for the Online Gooner this week ( boo,hiss) which underlines a lot of what you have written. He hasn’t reinvented himself like Fergie used to regularly
What Barack said @ 20
Hi-ho, Hi-ho !
Hi-ho, Hi-ho,
To ‘Boro we will go !
No, not on your nellie,
We’ll watch it on the telly !
If it hasn’t been subbed off for another Palace game …… 🙁
Apparently overheard at Highbury House earlier this morning –
Sir Chips: “Ivan, Ken, no sign of old Carpets today then ? Come and help me shuffle these chairs, would you ?”
Ivan: “Ooh yes ! Why, what’s happening, who’s coming ?”
Sir Chips: “No idea, but there’s nothing else to do, is there ….?”
Trev’s story about Steve Bould tallies exactly with what I have been told by a coach at Hale End. Arsenal do not practice defensive drills at all. Poor old George Graham and Tony Adams had the piss taken out of them in the Full Monty but boy was that defence drilled!
Whether the Keown story about him being sacked after overseeing a defence ( with Eboue, Senderos and Flamini in it) who broke the CL record for successive clean sheets is apocryphal or is really true there appears to be a theme developing!
And this is the theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9AnUs2urC4
Steve Bould took over from Pat Rice as Assistant Manager and it was assumed Defensive coach at the end of the 2011/2012 season. Our first two games with him in situ during 2012/13 were the following ; Aug 18 Home ; Arsenal 0, Sunderland 0 and Aug 26 Away ; Stoke 0, Arsenal 0. There followed – and I distinctly remember this – much references to the famous handbrake and media reports that Bouldy was over-ruled and kind of reprimanded early on when, in fact, from a defensive point of view, his first impact was a success. Mind you, it was indeed a very poor start to the season with just 12 points from our first 10 Prem games and things really only recovered somewhat with that famous derby when Sagna rallied the troops at 0-2 and we romped home 5-2. During this initial period however, the defence was never routed, conceding 8 times in 10, many of them hard games against Man U, City and Pool away and Chelsea at home. Did he lose his voice then to never regain it ? Is that pain easily cushioned by £ 1.5 mill stg a year ? Just sayin’…. COYG.
Cyclone Cook is now pounding the north island of New Zealand. Hope everybody is safe.
And it looks like the south island is getting it too.
Hope everyone in Australia is safe too, having just heard about the damage caused by Cyclone Debbie earlier this month.
Sahin puts things in perspective very well.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39589517
Im bemused By the Bouldy stories anyone that saw him play new the procedure – First 5 minutes go through the back of the star centre forward then pick him out his pocket after the 90 minutes was up – Cannot believe a player like that would just sit on his hands watching the chaos unfold. Strange, Strange Times indeed 🙂
New reason to support Recreativo Ottawa.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/13/world/canada/trudeau-marijuana.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
TTG, Chippy,
TTG’s story about Keown is almost correct.
Having coached the back line of Eboue, Toure, Senderos and Flamini to a CL record, Keown asked to be given a proper job as defensive coach because he said he was being undermined as, in effect, a casual employee and some players – chiefly Senderos as I was told – did not want to listen to him.
His request for a permanent job was refused and so he left.
Oh very dear …..
Hmmm, Senderos. Didn’t he go on to be a…. errr…. ummm… a player for a Fulham Club?
(I actually used to think he had his good points, often took the Row Z route rather than take a chance btw)
Right.
TTG @ 78. Please include me in the list of people that totally recognise and respect what AW has achieved, but have, over the last 5 years or so, come to the conclusion that, actually old fella, you ain’t quite up to the task anymore.
Reference to 2008. I am of the opinion that that was the best Arsenal side in the recent memories of many that never won the title. Even with Gallas in the team. It all boils down to the Taylor / Eduardo leg break pivot point IMO. Oh, yes, and Clichy giving away a penalty instead of doing a Senderos Row Z simple clearance. (How the hell is he still playing btw?)
Steve T. Almost to a word, we are on the same wavelength. After the recent run of results, this board did not even see fit to have a hastily arranged teté a teté? To even remotely discuss if there was a problem?
Crass and amatuerish. And insulting to all supporters the continued silence they offer.
Have a good weekend guys!
Phil Senderos is the only player i can remember seeing fall over twice while running out of defence – without the ball !
Gael Clichy’s bad rap (Mark, #97) resulted from a couple of howlers he made at crucial moments, such as the one you mention, but these errors were hardly typical. In my opinion he was a very underrated player, as quick as any FB I’ve ever seen, good at intercepting and a competent tackler who generally positioned himself well. I was disappointed when he left and am not at all surprised he is still turning out for a team that has played consistently better than we have in recent years.
Another interesting insight referencing Steve Bould and someone else… http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/13/mesut-ozil-was-involved-in-furious-bust-up-with-arsene-wengers-assistant-claims-celebrity-arsenal-fan-alan-davies-6573486/
“No-one around Arsene Wenger can front him up and say ‘you’re wrong,”, he has got people around him that he loves,” (Ian) Wright said.
“Martin Keown is the only one that’s fronted him in the last couple of years and he got him out.”
And there you have it, from someone who presumably has actually been told this by the man himself.
So now, with people scratching their heads over why Alexis was removed from centre forward when it was going so well, it was supposedly the player’s choice.
Funny that. At the time he was playing up top we were assured that was where he wanted to play.
So… I call bullshit on this one. Because both can’t be correct.
Just a different opinion but…..
I didn’t mind when Clichy left, when
he first started I thought his potential
was big but he never developed his
defensive abilities. I’d prefer Nacho
to be honest and that is not just
based on the couple of howlers in
big moments but on his game by game
play.
As for Wrighty, loved him as a player
but to take what he says as proof
of anything? Not for me but as I
said just an opinion.
He’s not going anywhere. He’ll be staying if the whole of London is reduced to ashes in a nuclear blast. He’ll just turn up as usual, as he wouldn’t know what else to do.
He’d be there, standing in front of a huge crater where the stadium used to be, going “This pitch looks a bit dry, why haven’t they had the sprinklers on it?”
Thanks for the confirmation Trev re Keown. I find it bizarre that Arsene apparently hates confrontation but decided to dispense with Keown’s services. Keown is not a bloke I would want to upset!Reports that we have acquired another left back today .
That muppet who was at @ 107 but no longer is. Go fuck yourself. Cunt.
So a bloke was in court this week for attempting to have sex with a motorbike?
I bet the owner wanted to throttle him..
Talking of left backs, it seems we’ve
signed one, Kolasinac, from Schalke
on a free.
I guess we won’t keep 3 left backs
so may be one of Kieran or Nacho
moving on this summer.
Something of historic import could be going on in the Italian league. Atalanta, if they can manage to remain in their currently placed fifth spot in the table until season’s end, will match their all-time best finish which they achieved in 1948. They are also just two points behind fourth placed Lazio.
OsakaMatt.
We currently have 4 right backs on the books so only having three left backs might still leave us one short?
Steve T
🙂
You’re right. Re-sign Flamini in the
summer for emergency cover?
We could give Sanogo a new contract and get him to play there???
?
Definitely not !
Yaya is clearly the replacement
for Mert.
🙂
Oh dear, Our Lord And Master thinks Theo’s honesty after the Palace game was “not acceptable”, so expect to see him dropped on Monday.
Sadly the Totts roll on. I am not looking forward to the Derby at all. We can rarely have met with us at an ebb much further below theirs.I’m reducing to supporting The Chavs tomorrow but at least they are against the loathsome Man U.
Sadly the Totts are where we could have been with better management.
What a superb post Goonerholic!
Another of your very finest; and respectfully honest in context! Bravo and no Bravado. ?
AFCOF!
Preview time, and thanks again for the kind words. >>>>>>>>>>>>