A quick word or two on a Sunday when the season has come to an end both here, and now in France, prompting much speculation. Well there is a surprise.
Samir Nasri appears to be the favourite rumour of the morning after confessing that his goal for Marseilles could have been in “perhaps my last match at the Stade Velodrome”.
Word in France is that he could be on his way to Lyon. Also speculation that, so let us wait until something a bit more concrete appears.
The desperation for Arsenal news has led to the Mail on Sunday picking up on comments made by George Graham in Kenny Sansom’s new book.
“When I look back at my time managing Arsenal in the Eighties, I wonder how much more we could have achieved had my team not been boozing so much,” said Graham.
Now I love George to bits for what he did at that time, and for his part in winning the double in 1971. History may not give him the credit he deserves for his contribution to the club. He was undoubtedly our best post-war manager until the arrival of monsieur Wenger.
However, George overlooks a couple of things with his latest comments. That booze culture he mentions is acknowledged by those involved at the time to have been one of the reasons for the tightness in the squad. It could be argued we may not have achieved what we did without the infamous ‘Tuesday club’.
I’ll accept that point is open to debate. Among footballers’ generally at that time the drinking habit was prevalent and a sober Arsenal may just have achieved more, but then so could a sober Liverpool. It wasn’t the way of the world then.
What I do believe though is that the trophies were drying up when George was booted out in 1995, and a significant contribution to that was the poor quality we were buying at that time. That is firmly at your door, George.
No names, no pack drill. That would be unfair, but we all know that George’s last few signings for the club did not set the pulses racing. The time was probably right for a parting of the ways. I wonder if the club would have been so quick to throw him to the wolves if his last signing had been Dennis Bergkamp.
Have a good Sunday all.
27 Responses to “If Only”
I thought he was thrown to the wolces because of some corruption scandal, not only the poor results.
it was odd that the arsenal board still let George sign John Hartson and Glen Helder despite knowing about the bung. They were dark days at Arsenal, getting rid of Rocky, Thomas, Limpar, Marwood and signing Jimmy Carter, Kwame Ambudu, Eddie Mcgoldrick et al! Hillier, Jensen and Selly in midfield hardly set the pulses racing either. Such a shame George had to leave under a cloud that has marred his success at the club. I agree about the drinking culture, I’m sure it didn’t just happen at Arsenal.
can’t wait to see whether Nasri is coming
True, Geir, but he wasn’t discovered and then summarily dismissed. The saga rumbled on while the board dithered. George thought they would ‘stand by their man’, which they probably would have done if the team was playing better and he hadn’t made some embarrassing signings.
Russ, I think you are confusing Kwame Ampadu, a product of the youth system, with Chris Kiwomya, clown of this parish.
Damn, I wasn’t going to name names!
😉
Still !!!!!!!!! Graham was a legend.
Small correction required…
George didnt sign Dennis Bergkamp……… Bruce Rioch was manager of Arsenal at the time
Yeah you’re right Goonerholic, I meant Chris Kiwomya! Sorry for naming names – couldn’t resist it! Seems such a long time ago now.
With all the shite going on in world football taking a bung is nothing.How many people sometimes works without paying taxes.Exacly right,anyone castigating George for taking a bung are huge hypocrites and as a matter of fact one very prominent manager up north has done exactly the same without getting caught and how about the Allerdyce and Redknapp stories do you all really think there is smoke without a fire.Graham was wrong and got severely punished but the way the press castigated him was tasteless and absurd.
Danish Gooner – unfortunatley for George, he got caught. I remember Clough selling Sheringham to Spurs and that deal really stank. It was only Cloughs ill health that stopped a full investigation. George was silly to take the money, even though he gave it back but it probably gave the Arsenal board the excuse they needed for sacking him without getting the wrath from the fans.
Look at the case in italy with Luciano Moggi.Sepp Blatter the most corrupt president of Fifa ever and a nutter too.Bend Referees in german football.Rife rumours about drug taking among the very best.Italian,spanish clubs being allowed to taking on huge debts to finance their transfers etc,etc.
Gary, read it again. I think you have misunderstood.
Cheers.
Two tall men in charge at Arsenal. Both men of their times.
George came from Millwall. Arsene came from Nagoya.
GG won the league twice, the cup winners cup, the fa cup and the league cup twice. 6 trophies between 1986 and 1995.
AW has won the double twice, the league unbeaten and the fa cup two other times. 7 trophies so far from 1996 to 2008.
George’s teams knew how to defend. He collected centre backs. Arsene’s teams know how to attack. He collects central midfield players.
Scottish George’s teams were almost totally English. French Arsene’s teams have become increasingly non English.
George’s teams were never bullied off the park but sometimes lacked style, Arsene’s teams are rarely played off the park but sometimes lack bottle.
George was the boss when Highbury went all seater. Arsene was the boss when we built and moved to the Emirates.
George will be remembered by me for the 2-0 win at Anfield. Arsene will be remembered by me for the Invincibles.
George was a pragmatist whereas Arsene is alot more dogmatic.
George was successful in 4 competitions whereas Arsene has only been successful in two competitions yet Arsene has a wider vision and is certainly the most attack minded Arsenal manager in living memory.
The Stroller v The Professor. They both have a sense of style. Arsene seems to have more staying power and more appetite for the fight but then his playing career was shorter and far less high profile than George’s. Arsene’s calling is as a manager. George maybe isn’t the type to have a ‘calling’.
Ferguson is probably as close as you’d get to a mix of the two men. Man Utd have been more ambitious than Arsenal so they dominate English football. When the Arsenal debt becomes smaller in a few years time hopefully we’ll be able to compete for a sustained period at the very top although we’re going to need a bit more luck with our big money buys.
I honestly think Arsene should focus on qualifying for the CL and trying to win the domestic cups for the next few years until the money comes in. This year we slightly overachieved and were then found out in the crunch games.
Both men of their times.
Very well put Alan. Thanks for your comments. Enjoyed reading them.
I have total annoyance with Alan. Why should he say word for word what I wanted to say BEFORE I could say it. Is he psychic?
I think it’s pretty negative to say we overachieved this season. We overachieved in the eyes of the media which expected us to do awfully, but realistically we still had a fantastic team, manager, stadium. Whether or not we could have been considered favourites to win the league, I don’t think we over-achieved at all last year. Like I said the over-achievement was only seen in the eyes of those who expected Arsenal couldn’t score without Henry, which was a pretty naive assumption.
We had a lot of bad luck last year and I’m not even talking about the decision- although they had a terrible effect on our season. If Rosicky OR Eddie OR RvP had been fit for the strong majority of the season than I can’t see that we would have lost the league. We were playing Eboue no goals all season and Tommy had been scoring relatively regularly until his season got ruined. RvP had a great scoring record until he got injured and Eduardo looked to be making all the difference until he got injured. And before anyone says ‘well that shows a lack of squad depth if you can’t replace them then’- RvP WAS replaced- by Eddie, nobody could have predicted his leg would get broken. As for Tommy, that was Wenger’s fault. Sticking with Eboue was a tactical joke- he contributed absolutely nothing. Diaby was inconsistent and far from perfect, but he scored goals here and there and put in a few decent performances when he played, like vs Liverpool in the CL. Walcott also was getting ignored, as inconsistent as he was, when Eboue was putting in nightmare after nightmare.
Tactical issues and bad luck stopped Arsenal winning the league, we didn’t over-achieve at all. If you get a fair share of bad luck the chances are you won’t win the league and it applies to the other teams too. Utd only won the league previously because Chelsea had SO many injuries last season, many at the same time in the same position. The simple fact is the team which is the luckiest in relation to injuries and decisions of the best teams normally wins the league. We had a lot of bad luck and there were some tactical errors from Wenger which needn’t have been stuck with for so long.
To say we should aim to just qualify for the CL I think is unbelievably negative. If Arsenal aren’t seriously aiming to win the League and CL next season I want all those who believe it within the club sacked or sold, thankfully Wenger is well aware that we can win the league next year and will be aiming for it.
Nice blog. Sometimes I look at my manager (Arsene) and I say a silent prayer 4 him. I verily believe dis coming season will be his best so far, and the best in Arsenal’s history. With a lil more luck, he’ld av been crowned ‘Manager of the Season’ 4 what he’ld av achieved dis year. I’m sure he’ld be proud of d regiment led by Capt Sol Campbell, our own King Kanu & Co, boys he discovered and who showed class yesterday. Gooner 4 life 4rm 9ja.
I also don’t see why we need to wait for the money to come in as you say to be ambitious. Wenger’s track record of signing top quality players for low prices says enough. Just last year we got Eddie and Sagna whilst making a profit by shipping out a player who was now hindering the team.
Sagna was in the team of the season and Eduardo looked the bees knees, why on earth do we need to be spending big? There are plenty of great players out there who don’t come with a big price tag, reputation or attitude. So if we ‘only’ have £20-25 mil this Summer as has been suggested then I say great, it’s more than enough.
Amusing to see Flamini never left for money, more for the ‘big team & big trophies’………well Flam, enjoy the Uefa cup next year mate!!!!!
Yeah AC is such an attractive destination…. not 🙂
When you use the word “undoubtedly” , ‘holic, I think you do Tom Whittaker & probably Bertie Mee a bit of a disservice.
The club was in a state after the war but Tom created 2 league winning teams & also won the FA Cup, whilst Bertie took the club out of the wilderness.
George does shade them however mainly because he was up against the very dominant force that was Liverpool.
Arsene has had the most influence with the club as a whole, particularly at a time of sea change for the game. Forget the silverware, keeping us in the top 4 for 12 seasons is unbelievable, & yet there are plenty out there who not satisfied with his teams.
Herbert Chapman was a pioneering visionary, who made the club what it is. Arsene must rank mighty close to him now.
If you don’t set out to win the league you are very likely to miss out altogether & not qualify for the CL.
The league was ours but for fate this season, we just have to improve that bit & hope that the competition gets the dodgy decisions & crucial injuries next season. Fate is often the difference, just look at us & M U at Wigan. We get an unplayable pitch, they get a bowling green & a ref brown nosing SAF.
I have to admit, after the 2-2 at Birmingham I was walking around shouting angrily at lampposts and strangers, and generally barking mad for the next few weeks. Lucky I wasn’t sectioned.
The footballing gods delivered a rabbit punch to the back of our heads that day.
Gallas had a crystal clear vision of the future and it was more than he could take because he, like alot of us had actually believed that we could win the PL or the CL. We were good enough but that backward pass from Flamini to Clichy was like calling your mate by his name when you’re robbing a bank together. All of a sudden we were small time again.
In some ways Arsene is operating on a different level. He has alot of us under his spell. He controls the board. The board doesn’t control him. He never appears weak even when he makes mistakes which is a massive skill in life.
George had a steely charm mixed with a totally ruthless streak so he was a guaranteed winner but he never had the directors twisted round his little finger like Arsene does.
Arsene has more charm and is less ruthless.
His not quite right English helps to smooth away some of the trickier things he has to say. Makes them sound less harsh. Difficult to understand exactly so we don’t take them too seriously.
He creates trust. The board and the fans trust him even though he hasn’t been delivering lately. It seems that some players trust him more than others. With the trust even more in place since the move to Ashburton Grove he doesn’t have to be as successful as others in his position which brings us back to the footballing gods.
In my opinion George knew more about football and how to win football matches than Arsene but Arsene knows alot more about how to manage a football club.
Because Arsene knows this he suffers from being ever so slightly smug which in turn, ever so slightly irritates the football establishment (including the gods) and as a result we don’t always get the decisions going our way.
Hopefully the loss of Flamini will pacify the gods and we’ll overachieve again next season.
Fair points Pomp, and I wasn’t around in the Whittaker era, but the old man tells me the similarities between him and Bertie (for whom I obviously was around!) were striking. Both originally trainer/physios, both were disciplinarians. Both created very good sides and perhaps broke them up a little early.
I would also say of Bertie at least, that he needed a good coach with him. He was lucky to work with Dave Sexton and Don Howe, who shaped the double side. When Don went we suffered under Campbell and Burtenshaw.
Like you say though, George Graham achieved considerably more, and deserves to be regarded kindly because of that.
You make some good points, Alan.
Some I can agree with, some I can’t.
Arsenal & Man U should be congratulated for sticking with their managers, when there has been no silverware.
You have to recognise the cyclical nature of football team & take things in context.
Given the fundamental changes in the last 4 years Arsene has been more than delivering. Chelsea have distorted the fundamental nature of the competition.
I think Arsene frightens the football establishment & the media because of his pure intelligence, incorporating all aspects of AFC & the football world, in general.
Perhaps George, like SAF, was a better tactician but Arsene, I feel is after something entirely different. It looks to me that he wants to recreate a 1950s Real Madrid or a 1970s Ajax, into the modern era.
The essential difference between the two, is that Arsene is now a long way down the road to building his 3rd great Arsenal team.
George added to the basics that were already ready to blossom for his success but was not given the time see if he could create the next generation. To be fair to him the funds didn’t allow him much leeway but the signs were not good when he was cruelly hurried away.
It is great that we have had so many great managers, the only long term great manager the Spuds had was Billy Nick.
Thanks Goonerholic, Pomp and Ryan.
Thinking about Arsenal gives me a tight feeling across the chest.
It is about the only thing to which I am in any way emotionally attached to have evolved in a progressive manner throughout my lifetime. Well, apart from my dustbin lid but he’s only six years old.
The club fills a void.
Arsene Wenger isn’t the most successful manager around yet he reminds me of a faith healer. We, the fans want to believe in him for his sake and for our sake. He has an inner belief which transcends football. The fact that he isn’t the greatest tactician, linguist or man manager makes his unshakeable self belief almost comical at times but he is, in his own way quite spellbinding. He hypnotizes and frustrates us with the team’s breathtaking but (when it matters) ineffective football.
His true legacy will be the stadium and the financial stability of the club.
He has the degree in engineering and the masters in economics so that makes sense.
What happens on the pitch these days in football is almost secondary to what is happening in the boardrooms. Ronaldo may be the best around but he will never be as popular as Henry, Bergkamp, Cantona or Zola because he doesn’t have the personality to go with the talent.
Add to that the ludicrous offside ‘rule’, the establishment’s stronger fear of Ferguson, the continuing financial clout at Stamford Bridge, the shenanigans at Anfield and the financial dark clouds hovering overhead and the value of our very own Sorcerer cannot be underestimated.
It’s just that if Senderos is our centre back in a big game next season that tightening in the chest will probably turn poisonous because the bloke isn’t good enough.
Alan,
You have a way of conveying your thoughts in writing that is from the soul, man. You should blog. All the best to you fella.
‘holic.
You must remember Alan, Mr Wenger likes to keep the slightly dodgy CB around for at least another season or two following confirmation of them being utter dog shite!!!!
Remember Stepanob, he was still hanging around a year or so later after that mauling at utd, and as for that pascal cygan………………
I think you should say your goodbyes now mate as he will no doubt feature regulary next season!!!