Love And Pride. Earn It, Gunners.
Apr 20th, 2010 by 'holic
I doubt I am the only Arsenal blogger who had visions of what they were going to write this evening, who then opened the Arseblog piece today, and turned several shades of green as well as red!
We don’t quite see eye to eye in the minor details, so for example although Blogs was not expecting us to win either of the big two prizes at any stage of this season, I maintained until a week ago that I thought Chelsea and ourselves would contest the Premier League, although I will grant you I suspected we might not quite make it at the death. Having got so close with five games to go, however, I didn’t expect to be dead in the water one or two games later.
Having said that, the tone of the piece and the message it conveys captures the feelings, I am sure, of the vast majority of Arsenal supporters at this point in time. No matter which side of the various fences you have found yourself this season, I can think of few who could find fault with this,
‘My point is that while the fans have a role to play it is entirely down to the players and the manager to put things right. They’ve let us down this week… It’s down to them to restore the feel-good factor. It’s down to them to work harder than the opposition, it’s down to them to want to win more than they do, it’s down to them to make amends.’
Indeed it is. The under-performing players who fled the pitch at Wigan without acknowledging the thousands who had journeyed to Lancashire on Sunday morning to cheer them on have a duty to put right the lack of effort they produced in return for that unquestioning support.
That is not a cry for those players to be shown the door. Most of the players in red at the weekend have proven their qualities over the course of this season and before. Most of them have contributed to us getting into third place and challenging until the pointed end of the campaign became a step too far for them.
However, even they must have worked out amongst themselves in the last couple of days that collectively there was a marked lack of drive, of effort, of application, at the DW stadium. Even they must realise that this is not acceptable in the games that follow.
The remaining fixtures, against Manchester City at home, Blackburn away, then Fulham at home, all have inherent dangers for a side that does not work hard for each other, and for the fantastic supporters who have united behind them this season, until now. But Barcelona those three sides are not. Show some pride, play with a bit of spirit and determination, and there are nine points for the taking, and a secure Champions League berth in the bag.
So what’s it to be, Gunners? Are we going to show the heart that epitomised performances like the home drubbing of Tottenham, or the spineless surrender we saw on Sunday? I know what most of us believe, so prove us right, please!
156 Responses to “Love And Pride. Earn It, Gunners.”
Pint of Courage Best, please barman!
Only so I can pour it down the sink you understand and then use the glass for something more in keeping with my mood.
*Keeps the faith*
Yes there is. Well in Snail, you F5ing cunthood 😉
I’ll stay sober again tonight. Orange juice please.
Not me Ollie, I just turned over and there it was.
anyone hear what nasri has been saying? something along the lines of he’s sick of not getting enough credit for the football we play, and that wenger and arsenal should be appluaded that they arent all about the trophies… christ its nonsense like that, that makes you wana smack some of our players… anyway, as for the man city game, is anyone honestly feeling confident about either the performance or the result??? not too sure i am, before the utd game city were on fire, with tevez, bellamy, that young kid johnson and ade-cunt-or all playing well… think if van persie starts, then we could maybe turn in a performance and nick a win, but if the same team that played against wigan plays, i can see us having plenty of the ball but being toothless and getting severely tested on the counter… not looking forward to it in the slightest… :S
Jack – care to reference those comments?
Not that I really care about what Nasri has to say at this point. If he’s feeling under-appreciated (which is a bit ridiculous I have to say – I haven’t come across a single gooner whose had any ill feelings towards the lad), he’ll never get a better chance than Saturday to showcase what he can do.
I agree Nasri’s comments sum up the malaise that has set in. To say the season has been a success shows a lack of ambition and the comfort zone that has set in from players who think they have made it without actually doing so!!
someone give them a stern lesson in what the club expects
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Erm, before everyone jumps on Nasri, from the look of this piece, the quotes are from a piece with the club magazine, meaning it was intended as a less time-sensitive piece not a Wigan reaction interview. And no mention here about trophies not mattering either (unless that appeared elsewhere).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/20/samir-nasri-arsenal-top-league
“It is annoying. The work we do is not getting the credit it deserves because we are not winning silverware,” Nasri told the May edition of the official Arsenal magazine. “It is unfair because I think we have more merit as a club than those who have built their teams with millions of pounds whereas Arsenal have brought in young footballers, who have come here to play a certain kind of football and who have developed.”
Not that I agree with what he IS saying, but that’s another argument…
Condemnation of the team for throwing away the lead at Wigan should not be as severe as all that.
It’s a bit like the condemnation of Kevin Pietersen. He is vilified for being bowled out on 99. But he did make 99 !
We were in a title winning position for the 2nd time in 5 years, so let’s hope the Wigan result is not how we remember the season. One one prefer to remember a good side, but one was not quite ready.
3rd place should be cause for congratulation rather than vilification. We have again punched above our weight given the resources put in. Those that criticize the lack of investment should remember that other clubs that are able to do this, are either very monied, or ignoring the financial reality. What’s the betting that Villa and Spurs, if both don’t reach the champions league, will be forced to sell players in the summer ?
*weeping* if we’d won our last two games we’d be joint top. WWwwaaaaaaaa it’s not fair.
Pint of neat alcohol
I think AW was insulted (maybe for the first time this year) with the application (read effort/focus/maturity or whatever) of the team versus Wigan. Hence, I’m banking on a good showing at the weekend…and yes I think we over-performed this season especially based on the injuries which you can’t ignore.
I’ve said it before if we are outplayed, very unlucky, or outclassed – handling defeat is tolerable. So long as it’s not through lack of effort…
Keep the faith
It sounds like there’s a real opportunity here for Le Boss to increase the squad’s sense of competition for places.
Christ, making excuses yet again for this sorry team. This was never a title race. Arsenal were always playing catch up and collapsed like they always do because of lack of depth/effort/discipline. Clear the mud out of your eyes Holic and look at the table, Arsenal still haven’t even surpassed last seasons points total. The only reason we’ve been in a title race at all is because of the bizarre collapse of our rivals, which you can be certain will not be repeated next season.
I mean, I admire your blinkered support to an extent, but there comes a time when it looks more like sheer stupidity. The Wigan game was a disgrace, and the amount of goals Arsenal have conceded this season is a disgrace. Do you really find that acceptable for a club of Arsenal’s stature? Do you believe this club has stature?
I’m sick of this manager overlooking the bleeding obvious because he’s in his own little myopic world. Whilst I’m mega-grateful to the initial success Wenger gave us, it’s clearly all gone to his head and he now thinks he’s some kind of untouchable god that is incapable of making a false move. When it goes wrong it’s never his fault, it’s the ref, the pitch, the oppositions tactics, the players’ lack of maturity. Almost as if someone else buys the players, implements the tactics, coaches the team.
How many more years do we have to put up with it? You’d probably will be writing exactly the same thing in 2020 if Wenger was in charge, so how about coming off the fence and telling us what you really think, or haven’t you got the guts? Because unless you tell us what you really think your blog is worthless.
Spot on holic. We can do nothing to change the Wigan result but not to learn from it would be remis in the extreme. I hope those involved have had a crap time in training this week and that the full implications of their actions (or distinct lack of action in some cases) has now hit home. I will excuse their inept behaviour only if i see the complete opposite on Saturday. I think as fans we also have a big part to play at the weekend. If things do not go right initially then i fear that many will be unforgiving. That will benefit no one.
Keep the faith.
James I don’t think ‘Holic is wasting his and everybody else’s time by not telling us what he really thinks. It is obviously not the same as what you think, however, and you do make some good points. But please be respectful of other opinions which may be as valid if not more so than your own.
So James. What are the solutions as you see it?
Good motivitaing post Holic, I think no one could have covered everything better than yourself.
Indeed there is pride to be restored and us fans need to see that this team is hungry again and wants to give it all to come back to winning days at least for those remaining games we have left.
Funny how things in football can change so quickly as life I suppose in a way, one day you are flying high and then suddenly you are trying to crawl to move along.
We saw how unexperienced Barca made us look few weeks back and look at what happened to them tonight. To me there is still a great deal our younger players will need to learn and the only way to do this I believe is by loosing games. Nothing else will teach them that you have to give everything to win games.
I beleieve most of our younger players play with fear and we all know that fear will kill your free flowing football, the quick passing game, communication will be lost and eventually the game. We saw that this was certainly not the Arsenal team we all know and perhaps they to struggle to get their confidence going especially when the most influential players are not on the team sheet. Perhaps they need to start believen like we believe in them!
James, you are entitled to your opinion, but I have to assure you I am far from stupid. Thanks for that.
Rather than listen to people chucking poorly constructed toys from their prams I would prefer to listen to the bulk of the support at the games who will still strike up with songs of support for the manager and his players and leave the constant carping to the internet warriors.
There is no getting away from the fact that the in the last three performances the players that have been out there have not put in a shift for the club. I have slated them for that. In my opinion that is deserved, but so is acknowledgement of the performance of the side up to that point given the injuries we have suffered this season.
If the blog is worthless feel free to head somewhere that doesn’t vex you so, old son.
That’s what my heart yearns for now….
A write-up fit for a King from the King of bloggers about the King’s own football team.
The Arsenal give me Love and P-p-p-pride!
If we surpass last years season points total then we have improved (though not by very much) and if we don’t then we haven’t. Is this progress? I don’t think so
Last time I checked, James, ‘holic was telling us what he really thinks. Are you suggesting he has some hidden agenda?
Lots of solutions as I see it, to lots of problems – but why is everything deemed acceptable here? No matter how bad Arsenal are, why is it accepted? This isn’t the first time Arsenal have shown no guts, no character, no discipline, so why do you keep pressing the reset button? There doesn’t seem to be a limit?
I want to ask Holic straight, what would have to happen before you’d want to see the back of Wenger? What is acceptable and unacceptable? To many blogs sit on the fence, and the ones that don’t are accused of being “bad supporters” – whatever that is. It takes guts to be honest; and it’s very easy to sit on the fence all the time and make excuses and just accept what’s going on. For me, that’s a worthless blog – I would rather read emotion and passion, fire in the belly and a little bit of truth wouldn’t go amiss either.
James is back …yeeepie 🙂
Back from where, I don’t remember writing on this blog before – lots of people called James though 🙂
You can agree or disagree with what he writes but to suggest ‘holic doesn’t tell us what he really thinks is plain daft.
This is his blog, why would he tell us things if he didn’t really think them? Is he telling us what he thinks somebody else thinks? Or what he thinks we think he thinks?
I know what I think.
Large Knob, please, H.
Fucking hell.
BofB in action
Be afraid James
We are not though of as a successful club any more but we have enough good players and funds to build (with some quality experience in key position) a squad which can restore our reputation by making a serious attempt for all 4 trophies next season – yes this includes the League Cup.
I still believe AW can do it, but BOY do we need to win something next season to keep the boo boys from driving him out
James. I admire your spirit and passion but still no solutions. It is really easy to have a pop but not so easy to come up with the answers. If you read the previous blog you will see how high feelings were running.
I look forward to the answers.
Well first off I didn’t mean to say Holic was stupid, rather that blinkered support in general is stupid. So I apologise if taken the wrong way, or perhaps I worded it badly.
There’s a bigger picture here that needs to be commented on; it’s got to that time now with Wenger and a lot of bloggers are afraid to come out with that opinion, because let’s face it – it’s a risk. They do want to be accused of being a “bad” supporter, so they’re afraid to put their opinion on the line.
I know a lot of season ticket holders that want a new manager, and some that are indecisive about that, but clearly unhappy with his management. It goes well beyond “funds” and “injuries”. That opinion, which is certainly not a minority opinion, is not reflected here – or even commented on one way or the other. If you can read between the lines, I guess it’s only because I respect Holic in some sort of way that I come here asking the question at all.
James, I’ll tell you what I really think if you like.
I think anybody who doesn’t understand what Arsene Wenger has achieved in the last four years is just blinded by his own agenda.
The evidence is there if you look for it. In this period since moving into a state of the art stadium, he has created a third side good enough to maintain Champions League qualification year in and year out, whilst making a profit (as much on the player trading account as at the gate) because, contrary to the party line from both he and the board espoused to keep the institutions sweet, there was no spare money around.
On the pitch that side, and it’s apprentices, made a Champions League Final, a semi-final, and two quarter-finals, as well as a Carling Cup Final.
Now if you think a man who has achieved all that should leave before he has had the chance to spend the money his shrewd management has earned, which looks a real possibility this summer, and let some other lucky bastard take over the best job in football and reap the rewards, then the power of reasoning and intelligent thought has yet to reach you.
That’s what I think.
I remember a “James” perhaps it’s you perhaps it’s not. All I remember is that you were very alike in your posts, however I be sure if it was here though.
Anyway, if you don’t like reading this Blog then simple resolution really don’t.
For example I hate reading Le Grove because the authors of their posts seem to have a very limited knowledge and their comments churn my guts inside out, but you see I don’t go on there telling them they don’t shit, that they should support another club etc. I simply avoid reading that blog.
So there you good James, the choice is yours 🙂
PS. It pays to be polite at least when coming here and expressing Arsenal matters.
Why don’t you write your own Blog then James?
Rather than slag off others that do
But James, who or what is the answer? Who would you want to replace Wenger and do a better job?
Arsene was quoted in the sunday papers as saying that he had not been able to buy because money was tight due to the stadium. He went on to say that the money was now available to buy the players that were needed. In my opinion he has been working under extreme financial pressures. In the close season he has the chance to spend some money, possibly for the first time since the stadium move. He surely deserves the chance to do that?
Blimey, I’m still raw from Sunday I think. Sorry James. Let’s just say to be accused of those things in the light of the venom I have spouted forth in the last couple of days is a bit rich.
I would happily plead guilty as charged up until the last couple of weeks. Why should we not be proud of a man who is surpassing what Herbert Chapman (no trophies from 1925-1930!) achieved for this club?
Anyway, don’t do what I do, do what I say please gents. Argument is fine. Abuse is not. Thanks 😉
hello guys, glad u posted eventually gonner, thought for a few days there that the icelandic ash had got into ur computer and rendered your mouse useless. anyway that reality pill will not work on persons with no brain I’m told so maybe the vast amount of the blogers on here would be wasting there money buying it, bit like wenger buying players i suppose
keep posting among yourselves now and don’t forget to use the false blog names also so as to make the blog look popular, but the reality is that idiots who know nothing about a subject would be best off keeping their tram shut
oh hope the grimmer is OK for all this time
My God, those chimps nearly have worked out the keyboard…
That is surely a wind up
See what happens when you get all popular ‘holic?
The green eyed monster appears
Evening Holic & Holic`s
I too read Mr Blogs piece today and thought it was a great insight to what I would like to have said but unfortunately I am no were near the eloquent writer he or Holic is, so what it is worth here’s my two penneth.
Over the past couple of weeks there have been players in the papers spouting what can only be called bollocks. Nasri`s point is that we play some fantastic football and no one here claims differently. Back in the day when the corus around Highbury was “One nil to the Arsenal” did any of us complain that we didn’t play fantastic football, in a word no ! The away fans filled their boots with “Boring Boring Arsenal” Did we care with a full trophy cabinet, in a word no ! So its not all about how you play whether it be with stunning flair or just grit and determination. Its about what you have in the trophy cabinet at the end of the year that proves how good you have been. Can anyone argue about that, there is no argument. If we won the league through hard work and guts would any of us complain that we didn’t show any flair and footballing prowess, I didn’t think so.
Arsene has made our beloved club into a force in Europe let alone England. when the champions league draw is done no one wants to get us and this is down to the sheer hard work of our manager. If you look back on our last league winning side “The Invincible” did they play the best football you have ever seen, no they did not. But they were able to grind out results with hard work and determination based on a very solid defence and great goalkeeper including a most driven midfield you would ever care to come across and then on top of that we had all the flair we needed in our top goal scorer of all time with Freddie & pires on the wings and finally my all time favorite player bar Mr Adams the one the only Dennis Berkamp.
We played some fantastically stunning football then but to be fair to this next batch they play better football than the invincible. But what do we have to show for it is the main and only question. This team is in my estimation short of 4 players and one of those has to be a keeper of course. We no longer have that sort of killer defence who could read a game as well as defend as if their life depended on it. We no longer have a out and out ball winner like Viera, Song could be that player if he wasn’t to busy putting out fires are team keep leaving behind them. And of course we don’t have a 25/30 goals a season man like we did in TH14. Again RVP may be that man but again how would we know because the poor bastard has yet to finish a full season without the usual 2/3 months or more on the physio`s table.
So in short we need to buy, but they have to be proven and determined and full of guts and also understand what it means to put the sacred shirt on. This is a tall order in this current climate of money hungry greedy average players. So I’m glad its Arsene`s problem not mine.
To sum up
Invincibles=Work until their lungs burst=Trophies
New Batch=Flair,talent,no passion=No trophies
Arsene make me believe again. Pretty Please
James, I don’t know when you started supporting The Arsenal, but I say to you, from personal, painful experience – Wembly Stadium (old version) and Swindon Town, Leeds United, Leeds United, West Ham United and Ipswich Town. I say, a trip to Brussels to lose a European final without conceding a goal in 120 minutes of play, and I say to you Brian Hornsby, George Johnston, Eddie McGoldrick, Lee Chapman etc. etc. etc.
All bitter disappointments, and Wigan on Sunday ranks up there with some of them.
To be honest, for a while after that game I shared some of your thoughts, but after three days some perspective has set in, although I can’t say the anger and disappointment has subsided much.
The thing is, anyone can say “throw them all out, sack the manager, get more players”. Those people seldom actually suggest “who”, “how” or “what with”.
Did Arsene Wenger not appear angry and deeply frustrated and disappointed to you in his interview, despite the words (strong for him in public) that came out of his mouth.
Have you not heard him say that he is NOW able to compete financially to get the players we NEED.
The clear implication of that is that, until now, he has NOT been able to get the players we needed.
Do his ACTIONS suggest to you, a bloke who doesn’t care?
What actions should we, as Arsenal fans, take for the rest of the season.?
Desert to the Chavs or Man Ure maybe?
See, we can only really try to find “the necessary resources” to be positive, and try to get behind whoever we have left fit enough to play on Saturday.
Or should we turn up to the match, boo, jeer and kill the atmosphere as much as possible. Will that help to get us the remaining points we need.?
Answers tend to be a bit harder than spur of the moment criticism. And don’t forget we do have our 6 best players currently unavailable.
I was as livid as anyone else on Sunday, but I’ll still be there on Saturday and the game after that and the one after that.
And before you order the big yellow taxi for Mr Wenger, beware, we might just not know what we have ’til he’s gone.
Cheers ‘Holic, tuning in to the blog has been about my only source of optimism this week. COME ON REDS!
Excellent blog ‘holic, but you were even better in your response to James. Peoplr are so ‘blinkered’ by the need for everything now that they fail to notice the small matter that the silverless run is on the back of moving into our new home. It’s an achievement in itself. Wenger has had to be shrewd over the last few years of debt and it’s unfair for people to be calling for his head just as the time has finally come when he can spend it. Keep up the good stuff. @TheArsenal_
Thanks TheArsenal, but I’m mad now. I was saving that response for a blog at the end of the season!
Oh well, back to the drawing board 😉
Well thanks for that Holic, and to an extent I agree, but not fully. For two reasons. First, the manager admitted to having a transfer pot last summer, which was only enlarged by the sale of Toure/Adebayor – so I believe that whilst he may not have had enormous sums of money to spend and he may have wished to return some funding to the club to help clear debt (despite the fact its supposedly legally ring-fenced), he did have enough money to acquire at least a couple of players to add strength in depth to key positions.
Also, it may have gone unnoticed to some, but Arsene spent somewhere in the region of £6m on three kids last summer, which doesn’t look like the actions of a manager that is completely broke. On the contrary, if you have hardly any funds available and you are trying to compete for the biggest trophies in domestic and European football, surely it’s pure folly to blow £6m on what might (or might not) turn out to be successful 4 years down the line.
Second, I really don’t see what finances have to do with lack of effort or lack of defensive organisation/discipline – or bad tactics for that matter. Vermaelen cost more than Stoke City’s entire defence, which conceded less goals than Arsenal this season, so to judge Wenger’s performance on funding alone is hackneyed.
You seem to be judging Wenger on half the picture, and the half of the picture for which you cannot possibly know the full truth about – how much money he has available, whereas I am basing my opinion on facts, such as what money HAS been spent on, and the calibre of performance on the pitch.
Thanks for reminding me again, Trev.
Swindon. Wembley ’69. Had a bag of chips outside Wembley on the way home and didn’t eat them again for a couple of years because I associated the taste of chips with the taste of defeat. Now that DID fucking hurt!
Jackster, they followed you from toop. Get back there at once.
Oh no, sorry. That’s MarkM, isn’t it 😉
Well I see some fire being spit- evening Gents! There seems to be a bizare brawl in the bar with out anything in the middle. James wants people to quit shying away from getting off some fence he sees, but then never jumps down and just says it. I decipher you want Wenger out. In my humble opinion, that is extremely reactive and near-sided. Are their problems? Hell yes. We just need to watch the last three games again to want to smash our skulls open. Should we go chase Morninho or I’m not sure who you’re thinking of to get it? Not I. There isn’t a club in the damn world that has achieved so much at the pinnacle of the game with so little money and maintaining such a solid foundation for the future. Plus, that club just happens to play in a style that makes all clubs envious.
If we finish mid-table next year because half our squad is still injured and the other half fucked up in some games, you still won’t see me calling for Wenger’s head. Several years of that, fine.
Anyways, sorry for the distraction. Great piece again, ‘Holic. A Guinness to warm the up for this weekends showdown, if you will. I believe they’ll be up for it.
Course, by the time I finish writing, Mr. James fills in his thinking. Sorry for that then, James!
By the way, I am not saying Arsene doesn’t care – that would be ridiculous. I am thinking more along the lines that he is past it, like George Graham was past it before he nicked all that money.
I mean, I’d love to have Dennis Bergkamp at the club, but unfortunately, he’s past it too. Of course, managers are more susceptible to brain rot than physical rot – and for me that’s the road Wenger is treading.
When Wenger says he now has money; well, I’m afraid I don’t believe that he didn’t have any before but does now. After all, the club must have known about the windfall from property sales last summer, which is perhaps why they’ve always insisted he has the funding he requires, albeit limited.
That’s better, James. (from both of us ;-))
Can argue the points now. If you are not a regular here, you may not have heard my interpretation of why money has not been spent, despite being earned, in the last four years.
To cut a long story short I believe it was scheduled to be invested in the development of Queensland Road, but for whatever reason it looks as though the business has decided to let that development be handled by others rather than repeat the risks that very nearly bit them with Highbury Square.
If I am right there will certainly be funds made available this summer for the manager, and that is why I believe he has first pop at using it to develop his latest team further.
If that money is available, and he spends it, and we fail next season, this argument will be harder to justify, I’ll grant you.
If I am wrong, I cannot think of another manager I would sooner have in charge until that money is available, given what he has achieved to date without it.
On sky Sports today they listed all monies spent by the top clubs on transfers since the PL started, the amounts stated also includes monies recovered by selling players so the amounts were the net expenditure of the club. Of course i would like to say these are the exact amounts but they will be very close as i don’t have a photographic memory, so here goes.
Chelski= £326 m
Man shitty=£301 m
Liverpool=£226 m
Spuds=£179 m Sorry i know i said top clubs earlier
Manure=£169 m Could be worse if not for Ronaldo
THE ARSENAL=£32 m
Now tell me our manager hasn’t worked miracles and now he has been rewarded with a decent amount of money to spend.
Excellent discourse tonight.
James – I don’t understand why
1 – You think Arsenal have a divine right to win everything on offer?
2 – We’re ‘blinkered ‘ by realising that moving to the Emirates changed the entire situation of the club over these last four years. That was clear going in – but the long term gain in revenue due to leaving Highbury was always expected to impact our ‘normal’ operations. Being patient doesn’t make someone blinkered.
I was very concerned that leaving Highbury may have meant a year or two outside the top four. That hasn’t happened. I was very concerned leaving Highbury might mean falling at the groups stages of the Champions Cup. That hasn’t happened. I was very concerned that leaving Highbury might mean we can’t afford some of the biggest signings available. That has happened.
In fact, when you look at the truth it actually means Wenger has accomplished more than he has had any right to do. I don’t view supporting Arsenal as a need for instant reward. Chelsea ‘became’ who they are now due to new ownership. Not a great manager. Man City the same. Liverpool the same.
The only clubs I’ve seen committed to a general ground up principle for more than a decade in the last 30 years have been this Arsenal under Wenger, Liverpool in the 70’s/80’s and to a lesser degree Nottingham Forest. I respect that and I think the proof will be in what we accomplish over the next four seasons. I’d bet my last pound on at least 2 championships while other clubs are going bankrupt. (Not quite sure where I place Man U – safe to say Ferguson has changed the strategy 3-4 times over the years, just like Wenger)
Even the Champions League has changed beyond all recognition….clubs are offsetting winning domestic leagues to create the ideal squads for Europe and vice-versa.
This blog + Arseblog are the best out there by miles as they look at the big picture. That’s what supporting a club is all about.
I think AW is an amazing manager with more pride than you can imagine. Yes he is stubborn but I can’t think of anyone brilliant who isn’t.
One final question James (purely hypothetical) where do you think we would have finished this year if RvP wasn’t gone for 20+ matches? If we were fighting for 4th/5th and 19 points off the top of the table I could see your point of view far more easily.
James. As i said, i admire your passion but you still have not come up with one solution or one name. I am sure we have all identified failings and we all have our own opinions. However, finding the solutions is not always as easy as it sounds. I would suggest we wait and see who comes in close season before we judge too harshly.
Thanks Holic, sorry if we got off on the wrong foot.
I think the difference between us is that you put all of the problems down to perceived lack of funding, whereas I believe there’s a hell of a lot of room to critique Wenger’s coaching/tactics etc., and there is a moderate amount of money that could have been used to make things better but he chose not to.
I honestly believe that there are managers out there who could come in tomorrow and Arsenal could have won the league this season with exactly the same players and resources – Hiddink/Hodgson/Mourinho would be three.
Of course, most of all I would like to see Wenger win something again, but something troubles me about his attitude.
Great stats 71
Just goes to show Arsene worked miracles here with the money he had.
Guys
The legend that is AW has given us a great decade of good football, fantastic talent and always – HOPE… However I’m starting to lose that trust in the we’re getting stronger/older/wiser… I watched that tw*t Mourinho put out a team today of clearly inferior players against Barca and guess what – they made barca look weak, pussies and while a little unlucky with decisions – Ref Moaners like us… How did Inter get the decisions – well PV, RP and TH used to get them and that is down to knowledge and cunning.. 2 distinct absences in our current 1st eleven let alone squad… Experience and slyness/craftiness with the ref etc are no difference to you being taught the odd trick at work – why complain when you lose a sale to a sly dog when u can just learn from it.. We’re crying about underhand tactics rather than just accepting they go on and then embracing them. GOD ain’t ref, running UEFA/FIFA so stop blooming moaning.. Strength – need more, Cunning – need a whole lot more, Fear from Others – well Wenger you had it but alas now u need to get that back….. Wigan didn’t fear a 6-0 drubbing when they went 2-0 down with 45 to go… They would have done had Fergie done the same… Which is a why I am so gutted at the loss of so many winners..
Then we can agree to differ, and I have no problem with that. Unlike some blogs I welcome all viewpoints here, James. Would be a bloody awful place if we all thought the same.
Still have the old reflex instinct though, brought about from following this frustrating bunch all over the place down the years!
Anyway, that’s me for another night. I’ll let the ‘holics round the other side of the world take over now.
G’night all.
Ha-forced into your end of season summary early due to the shortsightedness of some….also brilliant association of chips and the wembley Swindon letdown.
Tim, I don’t believe Arsenal would have won the league with Van Persie fit, as that would do nothing to remedy our dreadful defending. I don’t think he would have made a jot of difference against Barcelona either. And let’s face it, Van Persie is injured every season, it’s bad management not to plan head – and Wenger didn’t. No doubt Van Persie will be out for three months next season as well.
It’s a bit silly to say what if he was fit anyway. What if Man Utd’s entire back four had not been injured for about six weeks? They would be miles ahead by now. And what if Chelsea’s Essien had been fit? What a player he is.
Just read Martin who I loath Samuel’s piece on Wenger…
It’s true – oh yes it’s true… Oh how that annoys me…
Please tell me how I can argue with the fact all that everyone said was wrong wasn’t…. Poor keepers – 2/3 seasons of acceptance we had sh*t keepers… Back up in Central Defence… WG/TV – exceptional…. so long as our 2 best guys stay fit we are sorted.. Well back up – JD fit when?? How many 1st team games in 4/5 seasons was a warning/likewise faith in Senderos/Silvestre.. Thank f**k for Sol coming back… Get out of jail AW in January for a monumental f**k up.,.. Midfield – all cool barr a couple of heavy handers to let Bolton/Blackburn/Fletcher/Fat Frank know we are ready etc…. Up TOP – Bye Bye top scorer to be replaced with never more than 2/3 rds of a season ever replacement with recouperating from injury and psychological damage Eddie and never scored a premier league goal from Mexico Carlito .. Oh and I’m the man Dane – who had never done it but who I have to admire has now for his recent performances.. Bit like betting on that !00/1 chance with 60k fans cash..
James
I only mentioned RvP as that was the biggest loss, when you add all our injuries together the impact was even more significant. We were scoring 3+ goals per game until he got hurt, about half that rate since, downplaying his loss isn’t my imagination. Yes the defending/goalkeeping has been dire but I think we’d have gained more points with him. Anyway, I didn’t suggest we’d have won the league with him, I asked where do you think we’d have finished? 1 more point, 3 more, 4? None?
I’m not sure about Man U – how did they perform when their entire back four were out injured? Evra has played every game…so not sure what you are on about. Don’t you consider him a defender?
Essien? Chelsea lost 3 of 12 games with him and lost 3 of 23 without him. So again not sure where you’re going.
This was a strangely winnable league this season, the lack of a truly great team made our relative late participation in the title race all the more galling to toss away.
I think that it would be insanity to get rid of Wenger. Then man has kept the ship afloat in troubled times.
This however, does not make him exempt from criticism. I have to agree with James that injuries, especially in this club, should be catered for. And it was insanity to:
1. Build your strikeforece around a notoriously fragile, though albeit brilliant player (Van Persie)
2. Not replace said player when the opportunity presented itself.
Wenger identified areas of weakness in the squad before the season even began. He did not address those weaknesses, buying only Vermalen (who has been excellent). It seems fairly obvious to me he hoped to succeed with this squad, his great experiment.
His experiment crashed to earth on Sunday. They have always come up just a bot short when required.
I am an ardent supporter of Arsene Wenger. But he needs to change his approach. Like yesterday.
It must also be said that injuries, like Wenger himself said, had NOTHING to do with last Sunday’s capitulation. At this level, no ELITE professional team should throw away a 2 goal advantage with ten minutes to go against a relegation threatened team. It is evidence of mental weakness. Those of us who blame injuries for our repeated failures should take note.
Injuries had nothing to do with Sunday’s result??
So that was our best 11? Do you think we may have been further ahead if these 8 were on the pitch?
Almunia
Song
RVP
Cesc
Denilson
Arshavin
Gallas
Vermaelen
I agree the collapse was disgusting. I also feel the 11 on the pitch were far from the best we have.
Mr. Merrick
Are you trying to suggest that the individuals on the pitch lacked the talent, tactical awareness and maturity to hold on to a two goal lead with ten minutes left against WIGAN? A backline featuring Sagna? Clichy? Sol?
It is rather pointless talking about who wasn’t there. The players who ARE there are supposed to be able to step up and do the job. This wasn’t Barcelona. It was Wigan.
As for the perennial injury moan – why isn’t anyone asking why Arsenal suffers from this problem every year? Perhaps we need to start looking at the players we recruit, the depth of the squad, or the training regime. I think it profits us NOTHING to blame injuries because its a recurring decimal with Arsenal FC.
Mental weakness is as severe a problem with Arsenal as an injury list. Diaby’s maddening swings between sublime play and dithering incompetence are evidence of this.
These players are highly paid professionals who, even if they were the de facto reserve team, should be more than good enough to hold out for ten minutes against Wigan. If they were not, why not?
I am currently stranded in NYC at the moment due to the volcanic crap, but I watched the game on Fox and was livid yesterday and have to agree with Malo at 61 above – that was the last straw for me with some of these players and the experiment has failed.
We need to sort out our treatment table and get to the bottom of our continual rotational injury list, we need to sign a striker (have done?), a defensive midfielder and he MUST do something about the goalkeeping situation. Fabianski and Almunia can both get lost this summer for me.
I won’t be back to the UK till this whole transport mess is sorted out – here’s hoping that it doesn’t take Arsene as long to identify some key signings!
And none of the above means that I would want AW anywhere other than at Arsenal – but he needs to change.
Malo
I’d suggest Fabianski has no business being in a premier league team, nor does Silvestre. Two of the main culprits for the collapse. If you really think Silvestre has looked capable of playing as a centre half in the premier league in the last 8 months we’d have to disagree.
All three goals definitely lacked the things you outline.
Tactical Awareness – failing to stay with Watson on a fairly average run to the edge of the box – Diaby switched off
Talent – catching a simple corner – Fabianski
Talent/Tactical Awareness – not getting anywhere near the striker to close him down on the third goal just sitting in space in the box- Sylvester
I assume you actually saw the game? The backline featured neither our first choice GK nor Central Defenders.
I saw the same things you did I hope – atrocious defending from two players who aren’t up to scratch….on the pitch due to injuries.
Ignoring the injuries as a reason for underachievement is pointless.
“Ignoring the injuries as a reason for underachievement is pointless.”
It’s not pointless as there will ALWAYS be injuries.
Tim…I agree.
Have you asked yourself WHY Fabianski and Silvestre are playing for Arsenal FC? Shouldn’t they be able to do a job in the absence of the regulars?
Why were these positions not fortified last summer? Arsene acknowledge the rearguard was thin. He replaced Toure, but did not strengthen a backline that was weakened further when Djourou got injured BEFORE THE SEASON BEGAN. He obviously had no faith in Senderos.
Therefore, we had Vermalen and Gallas. And then Silvestre as cover. It was a disaster waiting to happen,
Once again Tim – who is to blame for making such a decision?
As for Almunia – he is only marginally better than Fabianski – sublime one moment and inept the next. This issue was clear for all to see LAST SUMMER.
This is not an issue of injuries – it is a lack of foresight and poor squad depth. We could have purchased Shay Given. I’m sure he would have chosen us over City. Wenger chose to keep faith in his squad. Now we are reaping the bitter harvest of that faith.
James….
So missing 7 of your normal 11 should be anticipated?
What part of the facts are being ignored? Our squad depth in certain positions has proven to be wholly inadequate this season, that’s the reason we didn’t gain more points. We found this out due to an abnormally high number of injuries. I don’t recall a season quite like it, but perhaps I’ve forgotten other seasons where we were usually (not occasionally) missing anywhere from 2-7 of our first choice 11.
Obviously it’s not possible to ‘prove’ anything. I think it’s naive to suggest we’d like to be starting Silvestre.
Tim I agree that some of the players you’ve identified don’t seem up to the task. But their shortcomings are not their fault. The technical team were either blind to their shortcomings or expected the players to step up. It never happened.
Stop blaming injuries. We have injuries every year.
Malo –
I guess we’re taking a different path to the same result. Injuries exposed that our reserve players can’t fill in at a similar level. I maintain a very high rate of injuries.
Senderos – I’ve no idea just what happened there. I would have kept him
Campbell – I was very sceptical when he came back and have been proved wrong
Fabianski – He can stop shots – so his problems are obviously mental. A team with a small chance of winning the league isn’t a place to learn on the job. Loan him.
Almunia – Not world class but an upgrade over Fabianski
Yeah I agree too many gambles were taken, one of which is Song can fill in at the back (which he can)…but he was (dare I say it) also injured.
I think Kyle Bartley would have been a better choice than Silvestre based on what I’ve seen of him in reserve games but I think he was on loan?
Given probably didn’t come as he would have shagged the wage structure. It’s been the case with many other potential signings. Man City are paying silly money for everyone.
Tim
Yes, I think we agree on most of the issues plaguing the team.
I think we were gravely affected by injuries, but we were hard hit last year too – though maybe not as hard hit.
I think we need to ask why. Unless we’re superstitious, it can’t be a coincidence that every season our title aspirations are ruined by injuries.
Wenger has tried to be frugal. But he has also taken a gamble on this team. He expected the team to step up – they didn’t. I maintain that they should have been able to hold out against Wigan. They may be squad players, but they’re Arsenal squad players. If they’re not good enough (and they’re not) questions must be asked of the manager.
The defense is just an example of Arsene’s thinking. Somehow he thought he could get by this season with two world class centre backs and Silvestre for cover. (??!!) Campbell has been great, but he can’t play two games a week. Therefore, inadequate.
We could do the same inquisition with the midfileld – same result.
Good dialogue…always fun to have.
I’ve been saying to my best mate since August – ‘It all looks rosy if Gallas/TV can stay fit’
Ah well….
btw – I’m overall happy with our midfield (except Ramsey issue of course)
Speaking of……will Wilshere be back in August? Will he play?
Time for a wider perspective and balance to counter the D&G’s,see this article:
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/2010/04/has-wenger-and-his-youth-project-utterly-failed/
Tim
Agreed. Good dialogue indeed!
I think our midfield is good – but lacks variety. A little too one dimensional. Good touch, skill, but with the exception of Walcott (who of course, has his own issues) there is a lack of explosiveness and power.
I miss the days of players like Overmars, Ljunberg, Pires and even Reyes who put the fear of God into players with their searing pace. They ran wing backs ragged. We son’t have players like that anymore. Its like we have a midfield of Decos. And Song. It’s like Fabregas and the Fabregas Lites.
I think Wilshire should get another season out on loan. Vela should also be loaned out. We are going to destroy that boy’s confidence. Not entirely happy with how he’s been used.
To James—finally a realist has spoken. Hats off to you mate.
Injuries, youth, lack of funds and injuries are excuses that have passed their sell by date. Nasris comments underscore the fundamental problem with Wenger / Arsenal over the past 5 years. It appears that pretty passing against Hull, Wolves, Birmingham etal is the benchmark for success in the Halls at the Emirates. Last time I checked, there are no points given for style. Solid defense and goals win matches and trophies. Arsenal had that not so long ago, but I fear that those times are past unless the football philosophy changes. I watched an Inter team that fielded a bunch of thirty somethings, one of which being 35, handle Barca tonight. And yes, they had Mourinho. I both loathe him and love him, cause as arrogant as he is, he is truly a brilliant tactician. Won a CL at little Porto and owned the EPL for the two years here and now owns Italy. I’m reading that he is the likely replacement for Ferguson and if that happens, he and United will probably go on another three year run of EPL Championships and win another CL.
We must chuck out Wenger and get Mourinho,the french numbnut has taken us as far as he can.
I will continue to back Arsene as I genuinely believe he has NOT had the money to spend. I feel sorry for him and that some of our players have let him down with their lack of effort and commitment recently. Please God for his and our sakes that is about to change. No question we need a quality goalkeeper. Someone who can command his area and help marshal the defence giving them confidence. Diaby I have always liked and defended, but I cannot accept his performance against Wigan. I can accept poor control and things not coming off ( as in Tommy Rosicky’s case who I felt did run his socks off regardless ) but to lazily amble around in a world of his own, marking no-one and just plain not tracking back or covering was shameful. If he plays against City he owes the team, the fans and his Manager big-time.
Finally, what I do find absolutely incredible is how a team with the ” best player in the world ” playing “football from another planet ” can go one nil up and end up losing the game 3 – 1. How appalling. Guardiola should go and Messi should be put up for transfer. Would you accept Almunia and 5 million ??? Or how about Silvestre and 5 million for Lucio Mr Mourinho ??
All you sentimental fools wouldnt wanna face a Man Utd Mourinho against and Arsenal Wenger,Wenger has burned his candle as a top manager even one of his best manager friends Pep says so,wenger cant think on his feet he is completely incapable of doing anything proper tactically,he can only play one way and Arsenal although entertaining are the most one dimensional team in the world and no top manager gets away with promising trophies for 6 seasons and not delivering
Wenger can spend 100 mil and the outcome will be the same as sunday,it is inherent in his squad,he pays them millions but cant motivate them a damaging indictment of a manager that has far outstayed his welcome.
It is time Arsenal acted as a big club and got ruthless with a manager that has underperformed for six seasons and have failed to deliver the champions league even though he promised we would win it inside 5 or 6 seasons.
To Timmy Merrick:
Please Stop and I repeat stop, with the injuries BS. Consider the following:
Number of games played in the EPL (thru 34 matches) by top players at Arsenal and United.
Arsenal:
Gallas 26, Fabergas 27, Ashavin 25, Vermallen 33, Song 25, Sagna 31,Clichy 21, Bendtner 21, Diaby 24 and Van Persie 12.
United:
Rio 11, Van der sar 18, O’Shea 13, Brown 20, Evans 16, Anderson 15 Park 16, Vidic 21, Evra 33. Yes Rooney is a huge part of the United success and when he went down, United slipped, BUT, in the last few games; Scholes at 35 scores winner, Nani scores 2 and the young lad Gibson scores the other in the win over Bayern. Most important is the fact that even with the loss of Ronaldo, United have scored more goals this season then the previous BUT it was Uniteds’ great defense, a defense/ GK that kept many clean sheets that won the EPL for United the previous three seasons and go back and take a look at how many games Van der sar, Rio and Vidic played this season, but they are still knocking on the door and could possibly lift their 4th EPL title in a row.
So I ask you to please stop with the excuses and accept that the problem is a much bigger one for Arsenal. It’s the football philosophy!
richy –
1 – use my actual name if you want me to take you seriously….sorry I didn’t get far past that
I think you’re saying if Rooney missed over half the season, United would have struggled. Which of course they would have….thanks for reiterating my point for me.
Guys
As much as I believe that Wenger has questions to answer for his unwavering belief in a squad that has too often flattered to deceive, I think that to dismiss the man because he has fallen short during a trying financial period for the club would be a short sighted and foolish move.
Wenger has become the victim of his own success; he has increased everyone’s expectations of both the club and himself. But I do not think he is past it yet. I believe he will find a way – as long as he concedes that his current approach has not delievered what it promised.
I do not want this club to become like Chelsea or Real Madrid – hiring and firing simply to win at all costs. Do not take the bait my friends.
Sir Tim: No that’s not what I’m saying. I”m saying that United would not have dropped so many points if it where not for having the very best defenders and one of the very best Gk’s in football out for as long as they where and there is no better pairing then Vidic and Rio. But, I am not making an excuse, what I am simply stating is that it is time that you stop making excuses.
Injuries haunt all teams and that includes Arsenal. It is what it is Timmy my boy and I and many others are just had it with hearing the whining.
Timmy–have a read of Samuels’ article in Mail One–pretty much sums up Arsenal.
Richy
You said – “Yes Rooney is a huge part of the United success and when he went down, United slipped”
I hear hypocrisy, make your mind up.
Your continued childish playing with names is about as sensible as your ‘theory’ the problem with a theory is it helps to be correct. So as to your magic formula (‘no better pairing’)
Vidic/Rio together in the league: 8 games / 9 goals against
Any other Man U pairing in league: 27 games / 18 against
Your dream pair – 1.11 goals against
The cloggers – 0.67 goals against
Point is either those two aren’t as important as you make out, or losing a top striker will cripple your ambitions quicker than losing a defender.
Richy
Why didn’t you save me the time in debating…you read the Daily Mail for your insight into football? I’m trumped…that explains it all mate.
Sir Tim, sorry mate, but my understanding of this game has been partially formed by playing at the national level and in competitive matches that included Beckenbauer, Carlos Alberto, Dennis Tueart (sp), and many other top, top players. This is not about my understanding of football but more of your lack of honesty. If you could only get past your frustration of no EPL titles in 6 years and no trophies at all in 5, you may start to see the truth. And that my boy, is that the Arsenal Philosophy is flawed.
Tim–when will Van persie ever finish a season. To go into every new campaign knowing that your squad is without real depth and expect another ending only speaks to my theory that the Arsenal Philosophy is flawed. But hey, there’s always next year, huh Timmy!
Tim,
I feel reasonably certain that you have never played this game or coached. Ok, maybe at the company picnic. The problem with many of these blogs is that many are good fans,and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But Timmy, when you start rambling on like you are some student of this game and you post ramblings that fall short of a real understanding of what it takes to play and coach at that level, then that’s when people like me say enough is enough.
Richy,
So playing with class didn’t bring you much? Since when does having an opinion that you disagree with make someone more or less honest than the next person?
I supported Arsenal for 18 years before seeing them win the league, my old man waited through the same spell. I’ve got no great frustration with the club at present, Chelsea bought their way to a few titles and Man U have mortgaged their future. I thought we could finish 4th this season, looks like 3rd. I don’t anticipate needing to wait much longer as long as we’re going in the right direction.
Martin Samuels should know about waiting…an unhappy hammer after all.
‘EPL’ ??? sic
Richy
I play twice a week thanks…..but not getting into a pissing contest with your NASL high brow mentality.
Anyway, you’re boring me now (in truth a bit longer than that). Is this all because your Vidic/Rio argument didn’t hold water….? tut tut
I met Billy Bragg twice…does that make me a good protest singer?
Apart from a decent goalkeeper and a new centre half, I really think we lack a person in the midfield who will threaten and cajole the team into winning, a la Vieira or Roy Keane. Having someone to yell at you, encourage you and remind you constantly not to give up is crucial, and I’m not sure who does that for us at the moment, or indeed over the last few years.
Cesc is a pretty good captain, and maybe he will develop this side of his personality, but so far he’s not in the same league as Adams or Vieira in that regard.
With that type of leadership midfielder next to Cesc we could be truly challenging next season.
richy, when you include the likes of O’Shea, Brown, Evans, and Anderson in a list of United’s ‘top players’ you lose any credibility you so desperately try to claim later.
If you are going to debate here, and you are welcome, please show a little more respect to posters we know and have genuine respect for. That has to be earned, fella.
Thanks.
Morning ‘Holic and Holics
I have to catch up on all the posts first, looks like the bar was open 24h for debate.
Tim
Go on – pen a song for us! 🙂
Excellent morning arguments. Richy; whilst by no means disagreeing with everything that you say, they have a saying over here in Spain; “Tell me what you´re proud of and I´ll show you what you lack”.
Now, I´m off to enjoy talking to some very subdued Barça fans. With the way they react I wouldn´t be surprised to hear some calls for Pep´s head.
Coffee, please,´Holic
Are injuries an excuse? No.
Are injuries an EXPLANATION? Without a doubt, YES.
Are Wenger to blame? Partially. He could have gone for more strength in depth. But at the same time, we can’t ignore the fact that we have been unlucky with injuries this season. Nasri broke his leg in pre-season, van Persie was injured by an Italian lumberjack (who then quite possibly went home to press wild flowers while wearing suspenders and a bra just like his dear papa), Gibbs was kicked out of the season by some random clogger in the CL group stages, Ramsey – who was developing really, really well at that stage – we all know too well about, Theo spent a number of weeks out with a fucked-up knee after being scythed down by some Brummie whose name I can’t remember right now. Etc etc. None of these injuries had anything to do with faulty preparations, they were the result of pure traumatic impact (accidental or not).
Have we moved forwards this season? I’d say we have. If we don’t bounce back big time on Saturday some of the progress will have been undone (as has been said by many) and regardless of anything we must get a decent keeper for next season because for me the biggest source of the insecurity we see in our defending comes from the defenders never knowing what our keepers will be up to in any given situation.
I was very critical of Wenger after the Wigan fiasco but after having heard his view on things after the game and reading some very well-written posts in this bar I have changed my views quite a bit and where I felt that Wenger didn’t see things I now fully believe he does and his statment the other week that Almunia “was never his long-term numer one” suggests to me that he will at least try to find a better player in that position in the summer.
And as for the argument that we are only where we are in the league because others have failed, well, I just think the league has become more competitive this season. When was the last time we had as many teams being serious contenders for fourth place? Up until the past two or three weeks, we had Spurs, Villa, Liverpool and City battling it out and Everton would have been there if they hadn’t been desperately unlucky with injuries at the start of the season coupled with the disruption caused by Lescott.
And, as has also been pointed out, when you say the words “top players” and the names “O’Shea”, “Brown” and “Anderson” in the same sentence then you have a severe case of thegrassisgreenerontheothersideitis.
Morning Holics,
Looks like i missed out on the fun at the OK Coral Last night 🙂
My personal viewpoint is that this side hasnt really progressed from last season in fact defensilvely id say we have regressed which is so frustrating as verm is a far better all round defender than Toure was in his later years, Now i know we have missed VP but our biggest problem which has been apparent for 3 seasons is in our inability to defend as a cohesive unit now Our greatest ever back four was brought bar seaman (Lukic wasnt bad mind) for relative peanuts but the one thing they had was discipline and many many hours on the training pitch learning there skills where this current lot although good individual players play every week like theyve only just met which dosent bode well on wenger or his coaches as either what they are saying isnt getting through or the players just aint listening,
Its not helped again by the shambolic attitude and workrate of certain individuals in the midfield and until the Manager gets his ruthless streak back and sends out the signal that it simply isnt good enough to turn up and expect to win these problems will keep happening we have become a club and set of fans that make excuses for everything bar our own mistakes weve got to start taking responsibilty for our shortcomings,
This team as it stands and the back ups are not so young anymore and are bar 1 or 2 all are full Internationals and technically most are brilliant but as a group when 2-3 of the shall we say more vocal are missing they lack certain ingrediants to ever win a big competition,
Hopefully finally Wenger has A) Finally seen that some of these players simply are not up to it and keep letting him down or B) Has now got the money and will strengthen
Do i want him gone, No hes got enough credit in the bank with me as personally i coudlnt have seen any other big name manager doing what he did when keeping us competive whilst moving to the Emirates and avoiding the Lure of Madrid even tho he knew he would be spending peanuts and not enhancing his CV, His loyalty to this club has been honourable and when i see some of the names and grief hes been getting it leaves a bad taste,
He has made some massive mistakes tho that could have been rectified without the need of spending millions so does have questions to answer but im quite prepared to give him another the year or two not that the board would give a flying what i thought 🙂
Whilst I’d agree with the sentiments that we are where we are solely because of AW (and not in spite of AW), the fact remains that errors have been made this year, and it’s not unreasonable to question these. Like:
Why did RVP not play for longer v wigan?
Why did we not adopt a push on for five nil approach when a title shot was still there albeit slim?
If money *wasn’t* there, what’s wrong with getting in a striker ON LOAN during the Jan window? (example someone *like* Whittingham from Cardiff who has been knocking in 15 – 20 goals a year)
Why did we start against Chelsk & Man U without a recognised striker?
There’s many more.
The question that’s been posed above is “what to do about it”?
Well, for me, purchase this little lot:
Rene Adler GK
Cristia Chivu CB
Neven Subotic CB
Xavi Alonso Mid
Fernando Torres Striker
Ok torres is predictable lol but stranger things have happened (Ray Kennedy)
Change out of £60 mill I’d say, the off loading of Vela and Eduardo for instance would reduce this outlay.
We certainly seem to have an awful lot of young talented midfielders who can all do pretty much the same thing, maybe the scythe needs to turn in that direction as well.
Mark.
I feel very gloomy and hacked off at the moment – not in a pompous ‘the experiment has failed’ way, more in a ‘even Portsmouth have more to look forward to in the next few weeks, and they’re relegated!’ way. So I’m taking a prescription course of ignoring all football until June 11th, then enjoying the World Cup. By mid-July I should be ready for another go on the domestic season merry-go-round, and I might be marginally less pissed off by then!
Please stop with the injuries. People are mentioning 7 injuries!!? As if Gibbs or Djourou – who got annihilated in the Champions League at home to Man Utd last season – would make a difference.
People say Arshavin was injured, but that would be at the expense of Rosicky who puts more of a shift in.
As for Nasri, yes he broke his leg early in the season, but what has he done when he’s played? Won us games? Not many, if any. Promising player, but his contribution is nothing compared to Pires/Ljungberg.
Was Gallas missed? Personally I think Campbell played better than Gallas would have against Wigan, and especially Spurs – that was the performance of the season.
So injuries is just an excuse – and we will have more injuries next season to key players. It happens to every team, some have it worse than others, but it’s no excuse.
I mean, we had Vela and Eduardo and Van Persie sitting on the bench against Wigan. Talent most clubs can only dream of, and people are moaning about injuries, quite disgraceful.
We’ve missed Fabregas, that’s all.
I’m happy to write off this season as long as we stay third.
That being said I genuinely look forward to every season starting with the right mix of hope (Arsene actually signs more than one top player) and trepidation (None or one signing leaving us woefully short when the inevitable injuries happens again)
But I do value Arsene for everything he has done for our club, I do resent his blinkered approach sometimes (ok a lot 🙂 ) But I do accept that we could be a much worse club without him.
My only worry is that he could well promise us signings (again) and then we end up with more young kids or elder statesmen but nobody in their prime, We need three or four quality signings at the least.
Like it or not, we are almost certainly not going to sign three or four players in the summer.
Too much to hope for Two then?
Two, maybe. Can’t see more than that though.
I’d take two world class signings this time and two more in the window 🙂
It’s such a shame 🙁 that I can’t contribute to this ‘instantly’ cos of the spam filters.
I soooooooooo disagree with James.
Please compare our starting 11 in the first match of the season v Everton away (a 1-6 win) with the starting 11 v Wigan.
I’d assume that you’d agree that the first match of the season AW would field our strongest 11 available?
There’s seven missing, that’s all.
I could go on but there’s no point if this post is going to take more than 3 hours to appear 🙁
I think injuries had a massive impact on our season as a whole, of course I can’t gurantee that we would definitely win the EPL but we would definitely have a better chance at winning it.
As for players not showing commitment, cohesion and discipline it is something that needs to be worked on and players are needed to be made aware of it in a very no mercy in your face fashion. Wigan display was abysmal and they are responsible for it. You could see Wenger trying to tearing his hair from his head when the third one wen’t in.
Imagine if the two top teams played without their main 5 players for most of the season?
Yes we conceded more goals and lost more games to last season but so did, Man U and Chelski so as you can see the whole top four went backwards this season not talking about Liverpool. As for the youth project I don’t think it has failed completely, we produced, Cesc, Song, Bendtner and the likes of Jack Wilsehre, Emmanuel-Thomas, Lansbury and Eastmond are a year older and wiser and could play an important part next season.
Not long ago we were in CL final in 2006 where most of our players were The Invincibles so four years down the line and season to season we take part in this precious competition on a such tight budget to play with. Le Boss has done wonders and if most of you can’t see that you are definitely blind folded and spending millions will not give you trophies just look at Real Madrid that should tell you a story or two.
Yes we need certain changes we need fighters that is for sure as I mentioned above those who couldn’t give a flying toss should be punished in a way and I’m positive Arsene will find the right way.
Calling for his name is absurd and childish and becareful what you wish for.
Good debating guys! I think a general consensus is coming through of changes are needed, but not a change of manager! With this I agree.
@ Chippy – For what it’s worth; hasn’t Martin Keown done his coaching badges? Couldn’t we get him on board to improve the defence and also install a little passion? He can leave his ability to blaze over the bar from one yard at home though!
He’s quite an entertainer, Old James isn’t he?
“Christ, making excuses yet again for this sorry team”
I didn’t know JC was a Gooner? That’s a new one. If Arsenal is a sorry team, then most of European, Asian, Americas football is in a VERY sorry state.
“This was never a title race”.
It was and it still is – although Arsenal’s chances disappeared at Birmingham. A huge pity after a great season. The title race continues and so does the Gunners challenge for another, record, entry to the ECL (Real Madrid multi-million $ flops, eat your heart out).
“Arsenal were always playing catch up and collapsed like they always do because of lack of depth/effort/discipline.”
The spine of the team is Gallas, Vermaelen, Fabregas, Song, Denilson, Van Persie, Arshavin. Starting with Robin’s early injury – the entire spine has disappeared. No team in the world could sustain that level of injury to the spine of their team and still be in the race. Had Rooney or Drogba (alone, never mind their spines) gone pop at the same stage, the picture would be very different. (Add Nasri, Walcott, Gibbs to the injury list if you wish the full picture. I suspect you don’t).
“Clear the mud out of your eyes Holic and look at the table, Arsenal still haven’t even surpassed last seasons points total”.
Er, small point of detail, neither has anyone else! Get out of your mud bath, get the mud out of all of your orifices.
“The only reason we’ve been in a title race at all is because of the bizarre collapse of our rivals”
The bizarre collapse, eh? Could it bizarrely be that they “collapsed because of lack of depth/effort/discipline.” As soon as Rooney went missing, so did Manure. Chelsea played no better at Tottenham than Arsenal – they had their first team out (I concede Essien a big loss for them – one player not the spine)
“which you can be certain will not be repeated next season”.
We need this clairvoyant back for next season, ‘Holics. The destination of the Holic pound will be absolute.
I see James, Jimmy, Jim, wrote some other stuff later. If it is as poorly founded as his first paragraph, I’ll give it a bye, bye thanks.
I’m not going to defend the last 10 minutes at Wigan, nor, in their hearts will any of the players. But at the VERY top level, and make no mistake, in world football, that IS where Arsenal are, there is a very fine line between success and failure. Take Messi out of Barca, Ronaldo out of Madrid, and on and on and – the team’s ability to win changes instantly. Take the entire spine out of the team and, no matter how capable the under-studies, you have an entirely different and by definition, weaker proposition.
10.00 am. Off for the first Corona of the day and The Girl Who Played With Fire (No – not Her Nellieness!).
Holic, I take it this is NOT the preview for City? Correct? Please confirm.
On a Tuesday/Wednesday, BtM? Indeed not sir. I have to vent my spleen at the coach-tripper, and praise up Kolo and Paddy in the preview.
Adebayor, Adebayo-o-or,
He used to like coach trips,
But not any more…
Spot on BtM you certainly pushed the right buttons there!
Afternoon Holic & Holic`s
Great debating today guys, it has made great reading for the last hour. Read most twice to go back and forward on points made.
I think Arsene will have to admit defeat on this project and kick start another as not many pieces of the puzzle are needed. In saying that i am not to sure if this was a project or just these players will have to do as i dont have any money to spend. The more i think of it i am starting to get the feeling its more down to the latter no money. Holic`s point a couple of weeks ago about the financial burden of the old highbury coming to a end may be spot on. For Arsene to come out and make a statement about us having the money now to compete with the likes of man shitty and chelski in the transfer market is a wild one from the boss, as those sort of cards are normally play very very close to his chest.
Thinking about it tho it is a piece of genius on his behalf for two reasons.
Reason 1. To hear your manager come out and state that he will be buying players might have the desired affect in making the players think that the coasting days are over. Play badly and look over there, that player will take your place and you will have fun in the reserves if you dont buck your ideas up. Or even worse you may be sold as you are now surplus to requirements.
reason 2. To apease the fans who will be furious about the last couple of performances of the team. Arsene will know that things are not right and a few new faces are needed, and telling the supporter’s that there will be quite a large sum to spend may help suppress the anger building in the support of the club.
Of course i might be so far off the mark that it just isnt funny, but to me it makes sense and the boss is a fairly sharp individual.
@Catalan Gunner
Ref Martin Keown, I do believe he is a scout at Arsenal at the moment, not sure if he has completed the coaching badges.
What a sensational job Arsene Wenger has done for Arsenal in the last decade. Trophies, the Invincibles, best new training facility in Europe, Best new stadium in Europe, third generation squad and possibly the best ever. It’s no wonder Real, Barca, Inter and AC all CRAVE his signature.
Hopefully, and it isn’t guaranteed, he’ll sign on for another four years with The Arsenal. He knows, as we know, that changes are required in the summer. New blood, but pints, not gallons and NOT a complete transfusion. The good news? He actually has money to spend this time around.
I think Almunia should stay. As the second keeper. Fabianski needs a long sequence of first team games, on loan at another club. A new keeper is a MUST.
Of the five full backs, Eboue, Sagna, Clichy, Gibbs, Traore – Clichy is the weak link for me and Traore isn’t yet a “first pick”. I’d like them all to practice their crossing during the summer, but otherwise, good to go.
Centre back: Likely starters are Djourou and Vermaelen. I suspect Gallas, Senderos and Silvester will go. I think Sol will stay for a year. We need two new centrebacks.
Mid-Field: The Triumvirate of Triumph – Cesc, Song, Denilson will be next season’s first picks. I really hope Ramsey will return as a first choice under-study with Diaby. Eastmond, second choice. Merida looks to be gone. I’d leave Wilshere out for one more year. I’d buy another ball winner – Felipe Melo’s my man- free him up Juve (Clichy as a swap?). Inler is now playing poorly in a floundering Udinese team. Forget him.
Forwards: Van Persie, Arshavin, Nasri, Walcott (but he needs to make it happen now) are my first picks with Bendtner and Eduardo rotating. Rosicky is “on the bubble” for me. I won’t be heart broken if he leaves. I won’t be amazed if Eduardo is released either. Emmanuel-Thomas to feature as debutant. I’d love David Villa, but don’t expect to see him. We need a player who can head the ball – none of the current forwards can. I hope Chamakh isn’t going to be Adebayor light.
@ 1971 … I’m sure he would do it for a few pints! Allegedly.
@Catalan Gunner
Im sure he would as well, but hopefully giving Sol a extra year will also help are defence develop.
I really love this Blog, just takes me through these hard days. I have learnt alot about Arsenal and your match day experiences by reading this blog. But two things the more u go through the drinks the more itchy your fingers get to want to say something. All those who call for new signings should note that they dont guarantee positive results look at Real Madrid, Its getting the right signings in hope they will do the job. I still believe this team is on the way up. Look at the teams who are ahead of us, they all had players who have played together for a while doing the job. These kids will even be better next season. we just need a few bodies in. In my opinion we need a powerful runner with good stamina in that midfield and at the moment i can see Inler for this. just hope Wenger can get this guy in.
BtM, I can only take a bow. A few differences of opinion when it comes to some of our players isn’t going to stop me at all from giving you a big huzzah for you’re work here today. Well done.
And oh, cheers for giving us a lovely foundation from which to discuss, ‘Holic. This is what really makes this place alive, your great writing aside. There’s no place like this when it comes to discussing the Arsenal in a tough yet friendly environment. What we write might well get dissected by someone else, but always in the nicest possible manner. Well, at least by the regulars.
Two muppets on this thread: the guy called James and the guy called Muppet.
You guys have handled James well.
But Muppet? “Condemnation of the team for throwing away the lead at Wigan should not be as severe as all that.” — oh really? Did you SEE and HEAR Arsene’s shattered, stunned face and voice in the post-match interview?
That display deserved all the villification it has deserved. You think Utd or Chelsea would ever give away a 2 goal lead in the last 10 mins this late in the season against a side as inferior as fkg WIGAN???
And no, it shouldn’t and doesn’t cancel all the improvement we have seen this season.
Then Muppet parrots the incredibly BORING, repetitive, utterly predictable and totally irrelevant point about Arsenal’s lack of funds preventing AW from investing more in the squad.
What does that have to do with players of the caliber we saw on the pitch against Wigan acting as if all they had to do was coast, show up, as if they had nothing to play for, as if they had nothing else to do once they’d scored 2 goals?
The notion that injuries have anything to do with the failure at Wigan is bollocks. The players we had on the pitch are better than the Wigan players. Our manager is better than Martinez.
There’s ZERO excuse. And Arsene Wenger agrees with that.
Had to laugh at the notion that Barca “crave” Wenger’s signature. The other clubs, yes — but Barca? Cuckoo land stuff.
They respect Wenger but they’re doing quite well with the guy they have and have experessed zero interest in AW.
Catalan,
sorry for the late reply I agree and without hesitation I’d take a keown back in some capacity, we were talking on yesterdays thread tho desire and ambition have to come from within and to me some of these players just don’t possess it, You just needed to see wilshire in the cameo against madrid on pre season when he took out salgardo to know he had the desire even tho he was still a boy, it wouldn’t surprise me if the youngest that do come through over the next few years do have a bit more about them as they’ve come thro under bouldy si should know what’s expected in terms of effort as an arsenal player,
Marcus,
yep the reason we carnt defend for toffee is down to money you couldn’t make it up could you you only have to go back to gg to realise 4 good players That cost relitive pennies can be turned into greats with hours spent on the training pitch learning their skills, are lot look like they met up the Pub before the game!
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/darren-lewis/Why-Arsenal-could-rival-Barcelona-if-the-fans-are-patient-Darren-Lewis-column-article398721.html
Absolutely a great piece explaning the importance of patience in football.
In Arsene We Trust!
A test post 20.39
Yo, it’s instant up now olly olly olic cheers mate
Good stuff, Mark.
Hey Snir, Good to see you back.
Thing is – we need to keep high standards too.
Where have all the songs gone? ….Freddie ’cause you got red hair…..comes from Senegal…..his names a porno flick…….
Frankly if I were an Arsenal player I’d be wondering about the terraces’ err seats’ commitment!
Fabianski deserves a song…..to the tune of Luka by Suzanne Vega
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m9EWNDq9hw
My Name is Lukasz…
I Stand in the Arsenal Goal…
I’m no better than you…
Have you seen me drop it before…?
If you see the ball in mid flight
‘specially when the match is really tight
Just don’t ask me what to do
Just don’t ask me what to do
Just don’t ask me what to do
I think it’s cause I’m clumsy…
Cos in training no-one frowns…
Maybe it’s because I’m lazy…
I try not to act a clown…
If they cross the ball I wanna dive
After that I’ll make you cry
I just can’t catch it anymore
I just can’t catch it anymore
I just can’t catch it anymore
Welcome to hell, Adebayor…
Big up, Tim.
Song of the month!
cheers ‘holic
I wish it was for the great command of his area instead…oh well
Tim Merrick / richy / malo
Have just been reading the posts slating and defending Wenger.
First off, I would refer you to the answer given by our right honourable gentleman (Holic), some moments before, covering “What I really think”, in his answer to James.
I can’t think that people seriously believe that Arsene Wenger does not know a good or great player when he sees one, given that he has developed several to world class in his time at Arsenal.
By implication he, therefore, also knows who is not a good or great player.
I really think that he simply has not had the funds available to him to strengthen the squad in the way he knew was necessary.
Thus, his constant reaffirmations that the squad possesses “great mental strength” in a “methinks he doth protest too much” kind of way.
Also, that he had “total belief in his players”, ‘cos he had to make them believe that, in order to get anything out of them at all.
And what he has got out of them has, at times, been quite remarkable.
He has now said that he now has the money to compete to get the players we need. He has, therefore, clearly known that there were shortfalls in the squad, and is not purely stubborn or stupid, as some think, after all.
I believe it is the board, if anyone, who have let Wenger and the fans down by not being honest about our situation. Remember the way they hung him out to dry at the shareholders meeting, where directors sat on their hands, left him to take 100% of the flack from angry questioners – which he did without complaint – and then blamed the shareholders for asking the questions.
For their part, the directors were no doubt trying to protect their own various negotiating positions, by not disclosing the financial state of the club.
So how exactly do you win that particular game?. NOT, I would suggest, by sacking the guy who has brought a style of play and level of success to the club, not seen in it’s modern era, if indeed, ever before (fortunately i’m too young to have ever seen anything of the Herbert Chapman era).
Surely Wenger has done enough for this club, to deserve a chance to benefit from the resources it would never have had, had it not been for him.
Marcus, I cast two flys for you and you only rose to one. Clever boy!
Morning ‘Holics
Good song Tim, I shouls transalate that inot Polish so we could all sing it to him on Saturday!
🙂
Wow. I’ve missed a bit. Note to self (out loud) get to the drinks quicker.
Well, what can I say. Mistakes were made. Gambles that didn’t pay off. Players that didn’t perform. Does that mean that mean that the boss should go? Hell NO!! Does that mean he will keep a look out for the right players to add to this ever improving squad. You bet ya!!
Come on guys I say bring back Wojtek Szczesny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOY63kPwFYo&feature=player_embedded
Tim,
Thats Great 🙂
Arthur
Ancient followers of Arsenal like myself and quite a few others, are convinced than young Szczesny could be one of the best goalkeepers we have ever had.
As good as Dave Seaman/Lehmann/ Pat Jennings in the 80’s/Bob Wilson in the 70’s, all the way back to Jack Kelsey who was a great keeper for us in the 50’s and early 60’s.[ Holic or his Dad will verify ]
He was a Welsh international and unfortunate to be our goalkeeper during an era when we won sod all and weren’t very good.
He was a giant of a character and a great gentle man who’s best pal during his playing days was the wonderful German keeper Bert Trautmann who played for Man City.
Jack went on to run the Arsenal supporters club when he retired,and such was his popularity that half the time you couldn’t get in the shop it was so packed.[ Holic is not much younger than me so he should remember]
Jack always had time to chat to the fans who absolutely idolised him,and i still have the photo my Dad took with his old Brownie camera of Jack with his arm round my little shoulders while standing in the shop.
The greats don’t come along very often and you have to treasure the time when they stand astride the football universe because if you blink you will miss them.
JK was one of our very best,now long gone to the great goalkeepers convention in the heavens.
Young Szczesny could be that good.
regards
clive
Tim, Excellent song for Fabianski. If he ever comes good you would need to twist the words to come up with a more positive version. Right now I think he could do with a loan spell at a club like QPR. Maybe I missed the game when Mannone messed up, but he near singlehandedly earned us the 3 points at Fulham earlier this season so after that I never understood how Fabianski passed Mannone in the pecking order. Can anybody enlighten me on that one?
ehind the 8 ball but not nasri
Manone came through reserves, Fabianski was established keeper at Legia Warsaw and the national Polish team.
Arthur, I can talk about what I’ve seen of both keepers in the Arsenal goal, but that said I’ve seen much more reliable keeping by Mannone.
Totally agree with you behind the 8 ball but not nasri
If I was Mannone i would be disillusioned with what is going on. OK he made couple of ricks during his spell in goal earlier in the season but in the main he was solid and looked a good prospect. Fabianski has made costly howler after howler in the last 18 months and yet seems to be ahead of him. If there’s a worse keeper who has played in the Premier League this season I have no idea who it is, it’s embarrassing for a club like Arsenal to field a player who is so obviously a complete liability in such an important position. Frankly I couldn’t give a toss if he was great at Legia Warsaw (Polish GK of the year for two seasons in a row), it’s his consistently inept performances at Arsenal which concern me.
I’m quite nervous about Saturday’s game. If we don’t get a result we will be peering over our shoulders and with a tricky away game at Blackburn next up it could be end up being a lot closer for third. Here’s hoping we find our form again for the visit of City, the players should be well up for it at least.
We would take a combined package of Wenger and Fabregas in a Barcelona minute. I hope you Gooners piss them both off with your winging and they come flying into our open arms. Guardiola can’t cut it long term. Maybe we can do a swap for Arsene in the sumer with Fab to follow one year later?
“Come on guys I say bring back Wojtek Szczesny”
Arthur, he’s still a teenager isn’t he? He seems very happy where he is. I’d leave him on loan there, or at another higher profile club, to learn and grow. Keepers rarely come into their own at a really young age and the last thing we need is for him to have a few bad games at Arsenal, have his confidence dented and the screaming hordes of the BBB on his back.
In a sense, the best thing Arsene could do for Fabianski right now is to stick with him. OK, he “fell off his horse” at Wigan – in the time honoured tradition, put him right back on the horse and crack the whip.
AW is a superb judge of ability (remember Alex Song) and who knows, one brilliant game against City could completely turn things around for him. Worth a gamble I’d say. If My Pal Al doesn’t go in the summer, he will be designated the number two keeper. That means we need to buy (Yes!) or Fabianski steps up.
The next three games could make or break Fabianski’s chances for next season.
Clive – some very nice background. You’ve got a bit of the Holic in you.
I’ve managed to wrestle the keyboard from btm. As he’s been giving me a few irreverent references I’d like to make my maiden debut. I hope that’s OK or is this a men only venue? It’s quite impossible to live with him and not be teinted by Arsenal. He even signed our two year old grandson up for the club
We both watched a TV article from Germany of Harvard Nordtvelt. Handsome young man! I can’t remember who he plays for but they’re in the first division over there. Looked like he was playing well and his team were happy with him. Will he come back in the summer? Is he good enough to start?
BtM
I know what you saying and it would probably be wise to loan him to a club in the priemier league or the championship next season maybe, who knows. Then again, Valdes came to play for Barca first team when he was only 21 and Wojtek just turned 20 on 18th of April so perhaps just one more year on loan in this case.
It’s dificult to say wether he would fold under a bad performace, to me he looks a different lad than Fabianski. Lukash seems lethargic at time the way he speaks his body movement too as Wojtek is a more of a impulse person reacts very quickly and so I hear is a but of a crazy pole. 🙂
Arthur, neither the Crazy Pole nor the Lethargic Pole appears to be a better backup option at present than the Mercurial Italian aka Don Vito. Mercury is a volatile substance and Vito is young but we need to reward success and Mannone has given us more of that than Fabianski.
behind the 8 ball but not nasri
Yes I agree with you Fabianski has messed up his opportunities and hence lost the support of the fans. I want him do well but he’s letting himself badly. Vito did way better than Lukasz but I believe we haven’t really seen enough of Wojtek in action to make any sort of judgment. Yes he’s developing well but perhaps another loan is good for him and probably the best right now.
Whither the ‘holic pound this Saturday teatime? The heart suggests a wager against an Adebayor goal but the head could be going the opposite direction I fear.
Right, had a glass of wine (or five), and I just really had to come on to say that I love the Arsenal. What wonderful boys (and ladies!) we have, really, in amongst of all the crappy bits. Well done overall and bring on Man C. We’ll just win by a goal but we will bleeding win. Lovely fans we’ve got as well, at least the ones sharing a pint (or five) here.
Good man Toby
A large glass of Merlot please barman
Win the next match!