A Brief Review Of A Load Of Pants
Feb 8th, 2014 by 'holic
Where to start? Perhaps with the words of Arsene Wenger.
“Only our fans were at the races today for ninety minutes… We have to think what did not work today, myself included”
He had just seen the good ship Arsenal holed beneath the waterline and sunk in the opening twenty minutes by which time we were four down and it could have been six. In itself the defeat is not season-ending, despite what you will read in some places. There is an understandable reaction to a heavy defeat in the first of a series of games that could shape our season. We have to hope it is a blip and not the start of a trend.
I choose to believe a blip it could be because the nature of the capitulation today was so un-Arsenal like. The surge to the top of the table was built on a midfield that has adapted to different circumstances with intelligence and flexibility. We have shown ourselves capable of sitting back and hitting on the break, or of destroying teams with the pace and complexity of our passing and movement. At Anfield, for some reason, that same midfield suffered a collective loss of form, harried out of the game by what for me was the best Liverpool performance I have seen in many a year.
What is now important is that we react positively and perform against Manchester United on Wednesday (public transport problems permitting). Lose once and recover and there is a level of belief and confidence to build on, both on and off the pitch. Consecutive poor performances would erode that, yet to be fair we have been excellent at bouncing back this season. After the beating by Manchester City we embarked on a ten match unbeaten run that ended at Anfield. It is now time to start another run, a game at a time, and for these players to trust each other again.
It would be easy for anybody tapping on the keyboard tonight to be negative about individuals. Apart from a couple today those that pulled the shirt on will know they let themselves, and more importantly the traveling faithful, down. As good as Liverpool were, and they were, we were abject. However, it’s done, and no good will come from over-reacting to one defeat. Thanks to City’s inability to score at Norwich we have dropped just one place, a point behind new leaders Chelsea. We have those around us to play. Everything is still in our hands and there will be many more twists and turns before the title is decided.
At Shenley in the coming days there will be a review of what went wrong today, and players will be lifted and reminded of their responsibilities on Wednesday. Defeat the wounded champions and our challenge will be intact. The midfield that has won so many admirers over the course of the season needs to show up after a day off on Merseyside.
We know they can, now it’s up to them.
255 Responses to “A Brief Review Of A Load Of Pants”
‘holic, your wisdom is always welcome, especially at a time like this. A well crafted statement on your part…
For Wednesday and next weekend’s replay with Liverpool, only need one word to summarize what’s needed:
Effort.
Cheers for that ‘holic!
Fair play to Arsene for admitting he screwed up. We should always set up to counter away from home. That’s the golden rule
Anyway, onwards!
“Sitting in the dirt
Feeling kind of hurt
All I hear is doom and gloom
And all is darkness in my room
Through the light, Moyes’s face I see…..”
A measured response and so shall mine be ‘holic old chap.
We were woeful and never looked like the team had played together before and as such it has to be a blip, an aberration of a game that can be easily put out of mind by a winning against ManUre.
Individuals in the team should certainly be losing sleep tonight and then moving on from it with a collective shrug that says WTF just happened!
This is a team that has surprised and confounded many this season and I count myself amongst the surprised and confounded, so I am not remotely willing to write them off now, we are miles ahead of where we are last season and things are not as doom and gloom as they could have been.
Lets hope the resilience we have shown this season resurfaces and not forget that we lost today to a team who played magnificently to their strengths and took full advantage of the teams collective footballing holiday.
Come on you rip roaring free scoring never boring gunners!!!
Cheers Holic! No complaints here. We got what we deserved today, fuck all. But there are other days to come. As I’ve tried to point out to other people in other places. But I’m tired now. All the best mate.
Spot on, Guvnor.
In a round about way — it would be a much larger concern if we played at or near our best and had lost to a team that I don’t think will finish higher than 4th. We were poor and can’t afford to be that poor again – but this side deserves our full support for every remaining game. We’re still most certainly a much better TEAM than in recent years and what we achieve this season is all still in the balance.
I thought the lack of Walcott/Ramsey was going to really show in matches like this and psychologically we were all but beaten just eleven minutes in today. Was it my imagination or did we simply give the ball away relentlessly in that opening 30?
Big big night on Wednesday lads – and payback next weekend.
Not to rub it in but, Ouch! : http://www.byfarthegreatestteam.com/posts/picture-arsenal-boss-falls-over-after-liverpool-thrashing/
We used up our quota on losing matches tamely already. On to the next match..! Bring on MU!!!
Haven’t seen the game but gutted when I saw the score. Very measured post maestro displaying more wisdom and patience than possessed by most, H. Vital that we have a response on Wednesday. Let’s hope it was a blip.
COYG.
Havent we been here before.. The usual feb march collapse. its the same thing every year. Theres only one person to blame Arsene wenger and his stubbornness not to buy a striker and proper world class dm..We can all see it why cant he??
I know I can always count on you to be a voice of reason in times like this, cheers, Guv!
Great stuff Holic.
Spurs fan in peace.
Wenger has mastered how to beat the rubbish of the league. Fergie won titles this way. In some way he makes them feel more comfortable, going to the slow kill rather than the quick kill like he used to. Chelsea and City are dropping points against the rubbish, and this is why Arsenal have a better chance than some think.
Good post,
Liverpool beat us in three aspects of the game: pressing, set pieces and quick counterattacks. Away from home, we should have been pressing them, flooding the midfield and defending better. Arteta is not a great defensive midfielder. Neither are Oezil and Carzola, and Wilshire was coming back from injury. We conceded possession to their pressing. But to make it worse our defending from set pieces was non-existent, conceding 2 poor goals in the early minutes of match we then left ourselves open to their quick breaks. Per, Sagna and Monreal are all vulnerable against real pace. By half time the game was over,
Trouble is, with Theo out, and Gibbs on the bench, we don’t have any pace in the side to make quick counterattacks. So we cannot set up to press them and catch them on the break. I guess that is why Wenger thought we could control the possession and pass them to death. Only we didn’t we gave the ball away.
Let’s hope we have a better set up against Man U on Wednesday, and that we bounce back. At least it is a game the players will get up for. They have an opportunity to put things right straight away.
@13 great lead in 🙂
At @10 I’d love for you to explain how a new striker prevents us shipping 5 goals. Bad performance nothing else. Leave the hyperbole for Le Grove.
Logically with Chelsea’s run in. One should give them the title right now. And if they had Drogba one would. But The special one has more trouble against those who park the bus than Wenger this season. When Arsenal go to the bridge if they play deep and counter on them they have a very good chance. If he plays how Fergie used to against him, then it is not a forgone conclusion they will beat Arsenal at the bridge. If Arsenal can remain consistent and break Mourinhos home record and the Special ones hold over Wenger then the title is going to the Emirates. I have a horrible feeling this is what might happen. Lampard and Terry are getting old, and Drogba is not there. Jose will not be happy in his team till he has his new Drogba, he knows they can be done without his talisman. That is why Cavanhi is his main target in the next window.
polo, instead of rewriting history you could just check the facts. Only last year we won all three League matches in February and after losing the first match of March we embarked on an unbeaten finish to the season starting in Munich.
Here’s hoping for that level of collapse again…
@anthony Greene … How bout your guys do us a favor and do Chelsea the next time you play them.
10) Polo: So who would you have bought in January then as your much-vaunted striker and defensive midfield player? My advice, let’s save the substantive analysis/post-mortems for May, and get behind a very talented squad for the next 3 months.
PS – Just a thought, but let’s give Liverpool a bit of credit. If we’d have thrashed a top side 5-1 at the Emirates, we’d be salivating on these blogs for days to come. A case of doffing one’s cap to Messrs Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling et al, and hope we’ll have our revenge next weekend.
I think there is zero chance of that. As Sherwood will leave leave huge gaps for Brazil and Belgium to runt into. The one who turned the special one grey, turned the game upside game and proved you don’t need players who are not very technical if you can get playmakers to work like lions. Something that seems non existent. The sooner the special one’s mentor is at the lane the better.
It’s only 3 points. 1 game. The manner of the losing was worrying – I couldn’t watch after 20 minutes but doesn’t sound like it got any better. Looked like the whole team was sleepwalking or eaten lasagna. Can’t believe the defence was so bad – even if it has happened once before this season.
What matters, as the guv’nor says, is the reaction to it on Wednesday. We need a Napoli-at-home opening. Urgency.
And for the back 4 to get to grips with what went wrong.
Nice stuff Guv’ and objective as usual. Good perspective!
As many have said, a good thrashing every now and then is never a bad thing as long as the response is immediate. The next two games, which could be a blessing in disguise, could now recalibrate the psyche and the purpose. A victory against Manure and sweet revenge in the FA Cup against the Mugwashers would be just the tonic.
A note on the match; Arteta’s a liability in these matches when teams press high up the pitch with cohesion. The back four need to take more responsibility for distribution from the back than predictably always needing to go through him. Far too often he was caught out, left flat footed or left with no option out and then caught on the ball or made to rush into an error. Ozil was also very poor in his distribution today. Credit to the Mugwashers, they were up for it from the off but whether it’s 1 goal or 5 it’s still just three points. COYBG, revenge in a FA Cup will be sweet after tonking the Mancs!
Anthony Greene’s right, it won’t actually be the results against rivals that will actually determine the fate of EPL title but rather how the rivals fair against the gutsy relegation cohort! All’s not over yet by any means but the “spirit”, “character” and “belief” that’s constantly harked on about, needs to be exhibited on Wednesday. As usual, the travelling support was immense even in the midst of such a farcical performance. Up the Arse!
Positive post, ‘holic. Just what was needed to give hope after the debacle at Anfield. It was such a disappointing performance. I’m still feeling it. Individually and collectively we were off the pace from the very start. Mert and Kos had uncharacteristic games but in saying this they were often exposed. Ozil is a terrific player but that’s a game he would like to forget. He’s so much better than that. Anyway, it’s not the time for singling out individuals for negativity – it’s time to get behind the team. We are still second with it all to play for. Arsenal for ever!
Cool & calm reports ‘Holic, unlike the boys played today. Hopefully a blip and there’s not a better time to get over it than playing Yanited on Wednesday. The players have got us where we are now and there is no reason why they cannot continue picking up points in the coming weeks.
My one area of concern is our current trend of slow starts and today we got heavily punished. The Mickeys were straight out of the blocks and destroyed us before we got out of 1st gear. Let’s see us go for it straight from kick off!
Feck I hate the Chavs! Maureen’s such a loudmouth cunt! Nothing would make me happier than ending his 70+ non-losing streak at home whilst making our way to winning the EPL trophy which we’d ceremoniously then stuff deep down his arrogant oral orifice! The FA cup would be nice to add to that too!
Well done Holic but I knew you would take a sensible and measured view because you are an Arsenal fan who has long experience of the game and doesn’t trade in the hyperbole that afflicts most comment on football nowadays. Similarly most of the comments including our welcome Tottenham fan who speaks much sense on here are very sensible . Of course we have the doom merchants whose insights would be more impressive if they were remotely accurate. We have done extremely well in Feb/ March in the last two years. We may have to win the league by being flat track bullies because I think we will find it hard to overcome City and Chelsea head to head but we can beat United because they are much weaker this season and we have been extraordinarily efficient at beating the weaker sides this season and we have plenty of them to play. Let’s hope this is a wake up call and not a watershed .
It’s been coming for a while now. All those lacklustre wins against rubbish with little conviction and no killer instinct. And all of them excused by the faithful here!
Well today we played a team who knew how to attack us, by playing the way Arsenal USED to play when we were invincible. Game over after15 minutes, just a case of how many after 20.
Best to forget it and move on. But I can just see Rooney and RvP wetting their lips. With the phobia we always have when it comes to Manure I was expecting a draw at best, now I’m not so confident!
On the bright side we’re unlikely to be pressed so insistently by Bayern M, so we could still surprise them, after which anything could happen in the CL. And likewise the FA Cup, although it will take a lot of overconfidence from Liverpoo to lose after today. They cannot possibly play as well at our place, but can we improve enough? Not if we fail to find several gears higher than we’ve been engaging for most of this season.
We should have bought Suarez. And perhaps a midfielder with more ambition than Özil who gave the performance today he’s been threatening for weeks … pants personified. He has some pretty skills but he’s not the man to call on when inspiration is required, that’s for sure.
Öskar
I shouldn’t have picked out just one player to criticise, they were pants all over the pitch.
And we are better than we showed today! 🙂
Öskar
Very painful
Walcott , Ramsey and Flamini are the key players to our midfield and we are missing them .
today wouldn’t hurt so much but for the euphoria of better days. move on, but don’t forget. never give up.
Two things concern me about recent games.
1. Mesut Ozil looks a bit…. disinterested and I’m not sure his attitude is right, since before Xmas. Don’t like the body language.
2. Monreal getting picked ahead of Gibbs.
I don’t understand point 2 and point 1 is a worry.
Still, it could be worse.
We could be Spurs.
Thanks Holic. Your post is the ideal tonic at this point. Things have gotten a bit out of hand and some common sense was absolutely necessary.
We are in better shape this season than we’ve been in the recent past and will get even better. Apart from the shambolic display offered up against l’poo, the team has done rather well. I am firmly of the opinion that this season sees us winning something(s).
COYG.
Lets chil out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiTQvT0W_0
It is interesting on this blog to see those who dare to criticise or critique the team for a rare flogging be criticised for one or all of the following reasons;
– we are still in front of utd what else do you want.
– we are still in front of tottenham so nothing else matters
– only coming on here when we lose
– we are still top 4 so what else matters
– we used to be bad in the bad old days so anything today is better
– we are having a good year so dont mention the war….or the kallistrom deal or the city loss…..
– it is just a blip… A one off
– the kallistrom deal makes sense
– you must be a troll
– there are no strikers left in world football
– how would a world class striker help
I would class the odd poor match within a season with a one or 2 nil loss as blips.
Two big losses against top 4 sides where we concede a total of 11 goals are not your standard run of the mill BLIP……
Just because some choose to criticise the team for a poor showing does not mean they don’t love your team or the club. Just because they critique the team for a win against a low level team and note some areas we didn’t do well in does not mean they are against the team.
It is simply recognising and acknowledging there are some big matches coming up, a trophy would be nice occasionally and that there are still many areas for improvement.
Who gives a shit if someone comes on here once a year and vents their feelings about a topic they feel strongly about.
Maybe those who dare to critique the side after two massive losses where we have conceded 11 goals, have enjoyed and agreed with most comments on this site through the season when things are going well and just want to have their say on a particular topic.
Having rose or arsenal coloured glasses on is completely different to being in denial…….
Nothing compares there is only one Arsenal!
Holic sir, your use of the word abject was entirely in context with the game I witnessed.
Curiously, the night before I dreamt that we had lost the game 8-3, with Saurez scoring 6.
When Liverpool scored thier fifth I was getting scared. Did I have the power to predict the future?
Mercifully no. Not exactly anyway.
I remain utterly bemused by this result. West Brom drew with the fuckers only last week!
Confidence a bit shot – can we really win the league?
Chesney escapes my ire — I thought he was thoroughly exposed on all of thier goals by our non existant defence.
I just cant understand how the meanest defence in the league can go AWOL en masse in this way.
Its only one result of course, but still………
Anyone got that Lasagne recipe?
Well said and eminently wise words, ‘holic.
Dick go on and suck on your name 😀
Best thing is we are right back on the pitch midweek. No time to dwell on it. Learn and move on.
nicely put, holic. thanks for the sanity.
Middle of the night for most of you, but here in NZ, i’m still stewing.
Can anyone remember a title winning team taking two thrashings in thier title winning season. I cant.
I feel we have been decieved. An excellent seasson no doubt.
Doomed to faliure?
Alas, I fear so.
Of course citeh failed, as will Chelski in time.
Truth is tho’, we are not better than them.
That really pisses me off.
@Aussie
It’s not about “don’t criticise”, it’s about keeping just a little bit of perspective.
The regulars in the bad go right across the spectrum from the optimists to the pessimists, and that’s just as it should be. You can get the view from the sunny side of the street from some, while from others (for example Oskar, Steve, Cynic), you can get a more critical view. I don’t always agree with the criticism, but it’s valid nonetheless.
Where the problems begin are as follows:
(i) people who show up solely when we lose and have a massive dig at the team;
(ii) people who regularly criticise the team and seem delighted when we lose and they are “proved right”;
(iii) people who ignore the fact that we are one point off the top of the table, competing against two clubs with a bottomless pit of money;
(iv) people who seem to post on the assumption that the only thing that prevents us winning the league every season without fail is the presence of the current manager;
(v) people who moan that we didn’t sign a “world class” player in the January window (because it’s well known we were offered a parade of world class players in all positions at affordable rates;
(vi) people who pop up after a 5-1 defeat in which the entire team played like shit and loudly proclaim that the result vindicates their earlier criticism that we didn’t buy a back up striker in January; and
(vii) anyone who favourably quotes Le Grove.
I’m not accusing you, personally, of any of the above. I’m just trying to identify the dividing line where valid criticism (eg why on earth did Monreal start yesterday?) crosses the line into something that needs to be challenged. I think the more critical regulars on here provide valuable balance, even where I disagree. I think the people who arrive only after a bad result and shout loudly about how deluded the rest of us are are trolls.
Anyway, here’s to better days, starting Wednesday. We can’t possibly be that shit again, and you’d hope that the entire team will be given a bollocking and then a gee up between now and midweek.
COYG
still love Arsenal tho!!
Cheers N7 for your comments.
We seem to agree that there is nothing wrong with differing views.
A pretty good place to start.
You mention steve T. He needs no defense from me but he is a good example of a passionate supporter who like myself questioned the kallistrom deal and got roundly abused by plenty of regulars on here.
Luckily there were a few who also questioned the deal.
How can anyone in their right mind believe the kallistrom deal was a good thing for our club or a good decision.
I also feel matt 2 raised some fair and reasonable questions in the previous drinks and also gets roundly abused by the “sunny siders.”
WTF did he say that was so wrong. I thought he put his comments across very succinctly and accurately.
BTW N7 – I think you just invented a new arsenal group now known as the sunny siders, where all is rosy and sweet in arsenal land.
While it’s not the end of the world (yet), there seem to be some questions: are we the only team that ship more goals against big teams (6-1 Stepnovs, 8-2, 6-3, now 5-1, not to mention 4-4 at newcastle)? I can’t recollect Chelsea or Man U losing like that. Why only us if that’s the case?
And when other teams scramble and level like Newcastle during the 4-4, why don’t we do that? After this is the A team that has taken us to the top, which is no mean feat. Is it a cause for worry?
Is the theory that Arsenal are scared of the top teams true? Considering we don’t have an impressive record visiting these places and actually give up and put up a listless effort like we did at Manu earlier. Why should we be scared?
I would very much like to see us beat the crap out of all the other teams from now on.
@Aussie
I can’t speak to all of the above, as I didn’t see what Matt said or the response he got.
Sunny siders – well, it’s not about thinking that all is rosy, any more tuna being critical means you think that everything is shit. It’s just people whose glass is half full, rather than half empty. Show their views some respect, you’re more likely to get the same back, no?
On Kallstrom, I don’t really want to re-open that particular can of worms, but I find it hard to get too het up about. He’s a free loan signing whose wages we aren’t even paying at present. Was it a bad decision? Time will tell. An injured loan signing doesn’t look too smart, but then we’re not paying anything for him at the minute, so it’s not exactly the worst bit of business we’ve ever done. Put it this way, it’s hard to be “bad business” when at the moment it’s no business at all, it’s cost the club nothing.
Not going to get into a big debate about Kallstrom as, frankly, I think he’s a footnote to our season, and as bad deals go we’ve done far, far, far worse (Park? Andre Santos?).
N7. How do you respond to Arsenes claim that it is how we respond that matters?
To me, this is tantamount to saying that it doesnt matter that we lost 5-1 — its the next game that matters!
Its ludicrous!
Of course the next game matters, but in a finite season, so does the game you’ve just played! Both carry three points.
Also, the manner of our humbling is important. A battling 2-1 away defeat is entirely different (in my view) to a 5-1 thrashing/dismantling.
Top teams simply dont get thrashed,do they? They lose,yes. But dismantled?
As for your assertion that some show up here only after a defeat, so what?
Frankly, I expect AFC to beat Palace, Norwich etc, so need to add no comment to those games. You hold no copyright to comment here, as far as I am aware. This bar (like any other) contains individuals Who listen, as well as those who speak. Are those who shout loudest more important than the rest of us?
You speak very well most of the time, and are an erudite and significannt part of this establishments commentarry, but just by virtue of being a regular contributor it does not mean that your opinion is more relevant to we more occasional contributors.
@dennis
We actually DO have an impressive record visiting Anfield, and we’ve handed out drubbings to Chelsea and Spurs in recent seasons, while City have done the same to Utd.
The 4-4 Newcastle game was exceptional because it’s extremely rare for any team to come back from being four goals down. I’m not sure we can criticise the team for failing to overturn a four goal deficit: it was letting the opposition get four goals ahead that was the problem.
As far as almighty comebacks; 2-0 down to Spurs in Feb 2012, chances of top four slipping away, closing in on half time… worked out pretty well.
None of the above excuses yesterday, which was a travesty. But I, for one, don’t think we can read too much into it – we usually beat Liverpool, so the game was an outlier from that perspective. Utd are the ones we seem to have the real mental block on, and we’ll find out on Weds whether that’s something that’s now been overcome. Fingers crossed.
@48 … You know what is the most important match of a season? The next match. Btw new post on http://www.arsegonian.com and give the score predictor a whirl. I’d be particularly interested to see everybody’s opinion on that
@IF
I think you’ve misinterpreted what I said above.
I wasn’t saying that the regulars have more of a right to speak than others. I’m saying that if you only show up after we lose and only express a single point of view (i.e “we’re shit”) in a season where we’ve quite clearly not been uniformly shit, then that may affect how people respond to you.
There are critical regulars who are shown respect. There are occasional drop ins who make excellent points (often critical) and are shown respect. And then there are those who pop in, tell us everything is fucked and that it’s the fault of the bar for being too positive. Those, I find it hard to take too seriously.
As for what Arsene said; he’s the manager, it’s his job to focus the players on the next game. If we kick off against Utd still thinking about the game just gone, we’ll get beat. That doesn’t mean he’ll pretend it didn’t happen, or avoid a critical appraisal of what went wrong. It just means that, in public, he’s drawing a line and moving on, and he’s right to do so.
He’s quite correct that the response is everything. As I said in the last drinks, this can be our Carling Cup final 2011 or our White Hart Lane 2013, depending on how the players choose to react. Last time we got beat (City) it sparked a ten match unbeaten run – let’s hope for the same again.
Btw … Multiple tabloid crap floating around that Giroud had a model in his hotel room at 3 am and Yaya Sanogo beat the crap out of BFG in training. Get me to the next match already
Arsegonian.
That it explains what Arseblog was going on about I had a quick scout about but couldn’t see anything ! I wouldn’t take those stories to seriously (that’s not to say they are not true) but papers always seen to get these sort of stories after a heavy defeat, Strange that !
Wednesday is massive now and I’m quietly confident we will see the required response,
Up The Arse.
@Aussie
I don’t post that much on here, but I read most drinks. I certainly feel you’re a bit on the precious side if you consider you get ‘abused’ on here for your opinions. In my experience this place remains the only outpost of sanity left of all the Arsenal blog sites (and I sadly have to include Arseblog in that assessment now) where debate between Arsenal supporters, emphasis on the ‘supporters’, can and does take place within civilized parameters.
The only people who get abused on here are those that deserve to be. Trolls and muppets and folk of that ilk.
N7 @47- not sure i understand how arsenes even worse deals than kallistrom is supposed to make us all feel better about the clubs intentions to simply win something.
I think a lot of the sunny siders on here missed the point completely about the kallistrom deal. It’s not about kallistrom himself, or he’s free, it’s about why the fuck are we even looking at a player of that standard in the first place when the position we are in is so critical and out need of a striker so blatantly obvious to all.
The kallistrom deal is simply representative of why a lot of arsenal supporters get so pissed of with arsene and arsenal at times.
Impressive@48- well said all round and completely agree with all @48.
I will quote your best line – “The manner of the humbling is quite important”.
That is a fucking big blip…..
@Aussie
Not going to get drawn back into the Kallstrom argument. Life is too short. Suffice it to say that I don’t think it’s worth getting furious about a short term loan signing whose wages we aren’t paying. There are things about the club that annoy me, this isn’t one of them.
[…] In itself the defeat is not season-ending, despite what you will read in some places. There is an understandable reaction to a heavy defeat in the first of a series of games that could shape our season. We have to hope it is a blip and not the start of a trend. – Goonerholic […]
Nice one ‘holic.
And Esso knows.
Esso – I never said I have ever been abused here at any time, but merely mentioned that the responses to both steve T and Matt 2 in previous drinks were very defensive at the least.
I think it may be others on here that are too sensitive by the nature of their defensive comments to simple requests about a striker and not to buy injured players to replace injured players.
Pretty harmless questions don’t you think.
N7, yes we have a decent record against Liverpool, I was referring more to Manu and Chelsea. It’s not even the loss, it’s the manner of it which leaves you singing ‘you fill me with nothing but self doubt’ to quote Dylan 🙂 Hope we start kicking some serious butt starting Wednesday. We can do it as we have shown all this while this season.
Well said, Holic.
Not easy to write about that yesterday, and I decided a bit of thinking time was the best way to go.
First goal was offside. Not an excuse for a terrible performance but when you have trained to hold a line at free kicks and you do it in the first minute and catch two players offside and the linesman doesn’t give it, your game plan is shot. At a place like Anfield that can be fatal. And it was.
This however, in my opinion, cannot just be passed off as a bad day at the office because it has happened too many times in predictable circumstances.
Whether that can be put down to a mental frailty and a lack of confidence to attack the top teams, the too often applied hand brake, or a lack of physical presence, I’m not sure. Or maybe it is a bit of all three. It is a fact though, that we have conceded 11 goals in 2 games against Liverpool and Man City.
Personally, I think our midfielders are all physically much too similar. Too many players are too small and cannot withstand a high intensity physical game.
Cazorla, Walcott, Wilshere, Arteta, Monreal – going forward – Rosicky, Ozil, all excellent players but none of them possesses a real combination of pace and power to drive the team and stamp authority on the midfield when we are up against the top teams.
Jack Wilshere, for example, is a tough little player and has to contend with being fouled almost every time he gets the ball. Ultimately though, most of his runs finish with him on the floor and our play breaks down again. He should be better protected by referees for sure, but his game does invite challenges which he is not brilliantly equipped physically to withstand.
Giroud is too often isolated and can’t continually fight off three defenders. We have to get more players around him.
Ozil looks frustrated at the amount of movement around and ahead of him to make the most of his passing ability.
Sagna has been the model of consistency since he joined the club but his was a very tired performance. Is that due to his legs getting tired or his mind being distracted by contract talks and promises of greater riches elsewhere ? I don’t know – but I’m not sure his best days aren’t behind him. We would all like him to stay, in one position or another, but I’m not sure it would be the disaster some suggest if he did decide to move on.
These are not knee jerk criticisms of players in response to a single defeat. They are not really criticisms of any individual at all. The squad does seem to lack a bit of pace and power though, which makes the omission of Podolski, with all his international experience too, a continuing puzzle. I would love to see him get the chances to regain his proper form.
The team has surpassed expectations to get to where they are, and have responded well to each setback, but these are recurring problems which we have been getting away with lately. Some much greater application is going to be needed in the upcoming run of fixtures.
Thanks all for keeping it relatively civil. That civility is lacking elsewhere. I’m definitely skipping Twitter for a few hours until it calms down a bit.
Enjoy your Sunday, if you can.
Trev@60: ‘Pace and power’ seems to crop up again and again, in different formations, throughout many comments on different sites…and I agree that, to me at least, the team lack exactly this…if the team/Manager can find these elements then all is possible…
I feel that after such a confidence busting loss, and the ensuing raving intense media and social media pressure and headlines, it will be difficult to avoid a loss on Wednesday…and I would not really blame the team if it happens, as this was a chaotic defeat to get over…but ‘screaming’ that ‘Wed is now the perfect time to put this right’, etc, is not going to help and might possibly just hinder things…I am sure the team knows that their performance was sad
Once again, its ‘footie’ and the amazing thing about it and what keeps us all interested is that, anything can happen, even if all the pieces are in place…(endlessly going on about the lack of a striker, for example, would not have helped last night’s result, as most of the time Pool were in our half ripping apart our defense)
Defeats like these can be quite cathartic for different reasons, so let’s see what happens…
We’ve got a good team that played shit.It’s not nice, but certainly not unheard of.Bit soon to be sticking our heads in the oven.
A light grilling maybe.
Thank you for steadying the ship holic.Love this site.
Where do all the regulars go after a defeat? The comments pre the Liverpool game were very upbeat. A tough game was predicted but we’d get the 3 points.
We struggle against Top sides as we are too predictable. Rodgers did his homework in preparation & got it right. We go out there with the same game plan every game, fair enough, but it’s easy to play against when you know what’s coming.
United will have a game plan Wednesday, I’m curious to see if Wenger has one. Probably not. Over the last 8 seasons, we enter 4 competitions per season. League, CL, FA Cup & League Cup. We’re 0 from 32 competitions entered. At the end of the season, that’ll be 0 from 36. We then reward the Manager with a 3 year Contract extension.
How the hell are we ever going to win anything? There is a total lack of any Winners mentality. We reward mediocrity by having the highest paid Manager in the League.
As Steve T said yesterday, I think I’ll go look at that Puma logo now.
@Vinny
Shit, I hadn’t seen that trophies stat before.
N7, spoken like a true “sunny sider”.
Cheers Vinny, I’ll take that as a compliment.
Enjoy your misery.
@ 64
Where are all the regulars?
Mostly in the pub, avoiding the catalogue of irregulars who cannot wait to come on here and tell everyone “I told you so”.
Let’s say your premise is correct, that it is the Manager to blame. Please tell us who we should be getting as his replacement, that is available and willing to come?
Last season’s favourite was Laudrup, and the season before that, you could take your pick from Coyle and Moyes.
It was a bad, bad day but it’s still only one result.
The only thing all of us can do, supporters and team is suck it up, and move on.
Typical response. Misery? Haha. You need to get out more.
Simple H2H.
Turn the club over to the moaning section of the support. Coyle and Laudrup in the dug out, Scott Dann and Samba at CB, M’Vila in the middle. Lovely stuff. Lots of excitement, none of the boredom of all these top four finishes.
Clueless Wenger unemployed – who else would want him?
Good comeback Vin. Take long to think it up?
And with that, I’m out.
Have someone else turn the oven off when you’re done.
N7, if someone disagree’s take your ball back and run away? Nice one.
Measured and calm as always guv’, two traits we could use at the moment, sadly lacking elsewhere though.
I do get it, that was a terrible performance, the worst I’ve seen in ages, straight from the get go we were out played, out thought and out fought, it was painful and humiliating to watch, but some are going too far.
Now, I don’t do Twitter, but I still get to see some of the reactions floating around the net or on TV, I was horrified at some of the vitrol, shameful shit, especially from that media whore and utter cuntbucket Piers Morgan who somehow (probably thanks to crap like Twitter) has risen to be the go to celebrity voice of Arsenal supporters in the news circles. I don’t want to be associated with that jizzstain.
Back to the game, as bad as we were, and we were well below par, great credit has to be given to Liverpool and Brendan Rodgers. I believe he must of watched our game against Southampton and concluded that if we were pressed high he could get some joy, they did this with aplomb. They closed us down and hunted us in packs, straight from the get go there were on us like white on rice. they pressed and harried our every move, we had no time on the ball and it lead to us making mistakes, every goal was bourne of individual errors due to their pressure. Hats off to them, they executed their plan excellently.
The true measure of the team, as others have alluded to, will be how we react on Wednesday. I want that one so bad I can almost taste it.
Come On You Gunners.
Just “getting out more”, Vin.
You should try it, helps with perspective 😉
70 N7.
Is that to me mate?
Or has someone been using my name to post again.
I think the underlying frustration with the club will always resurface with a result like yesterday. The questions surrounding the manager and the team will persist until a trophy is delivered. Whether right or wrong that’s the way of things for a vast majority.
We have undoubtably been better this season than in previous seasons and there has definitely been progress. However no prizes are handed out in January and this run of games has been known for some time. Its obvious we should have tried to strengthen in january but its done now.
I said in the last drinks I will take the drubbing yesterday if we manage to get our heads right for the next months worth of games. N7 calls it right when he says it can either be our carling cup or our fabled negative spiral.
The rope-a-dope football we’ve played and got away with in recent weeks looks to have run its course. Now we need the manager to find a different way. The frustration comes in that many, myself included at times, am not sure the manager will be able to find a different way. I really hope he does, but I can’t imagine manure wont turn up and raise their game. As shit as they are they still know what it means to play and want to beat us.
I do believe though that the manager and in particular the players will have to respond with a much more impressive performance at home. If they don’t then we will deserve all the criticism the Maureen-loving media can’t wait to shower down.
Just a quick mention on yesterday game. At what point do the full backs realise that they can’t bomb forward irrespective of the opposition or the occasion. Pace and power are required but surely so is discipline, intelligence and shape.
N7, reading the LA Times last week. Silent Stan has just bought a huge amount of land near downtown LA as he prepares to build a new stadium to move his NFL team St Louis to LA in 2015.
AFC is just a little investment in his massive portfolio. As long as AFC makes money, that’s all he cares about. Winning trophies? Not even on the agenda mate.
Agree with many of the things you’ve said, Trev.
The fact is that we have just to many similar players. That is one of Arsene’s worst attributes. He just can’t resist this type of creative, lightweight, elegant player when he has the chance of signing him. As much as I like to see us playing beautiful football, with plenty of possession and spectacular passing, I like to see us being fast, direct, ruthless. It is all in the right balance.
I am sad to say it, but I don’t feel we have one. Not against quality teams who know how to exploit our weaknesses at least.
For instance, we don’t have the type of strong, fast and protective DM the fans have been crying for, ages ago. Since Gilberto left us, to be more precise. Instead of signing new player, the role was being given to Denilson and later to Song. Who I kind of liked, we all know that discipline wasn’t his strongest attribute, but he knew how to control and shield the ball. But then he left too. Again, without being replaced with adequate player. Since Arteta was given the assignment to protect the back four, three more DM oriented players left the squad, Denilson, Coquelin and Frimpong, with only Flamini being brought as a replacement. On a free transfer, under very interesting circumstances. Not that I mind the circumstances, but the arrogance in the way that particular crucial position in the team is threated is what strikes me.
The same can be applied to the striker position since RvP left. The tendency to play and insist to the same type of striker for years, is what I don’t understand. Chamack, Bendtner, Giroud are all decent strikers, but where is our plan B, striker with speed and trickery, fox in the box type. Why did we sold Gerv in the first place for that money. He is scoring for fun now. Can we find a pacey forward and perfect outlet for potential Ozil passes, like he was for 8M today?
It is evident that we have identified our potential targets through the years, I don’t think that our scouts doesn’t do their job. But either we get overpriced, or the player doesn’t want to come, or the club doesn’t want to sell, or whatever the reason I hear this past years. Money has been the issue before and I understand that, but what about now?
Every year I feel that we are two or three players short. Every year the same positions, striker, DM, and reliable CD backup. Add to that injuries that we always seems to have more than the others and it is evident that we are short of options which sometimes makes us to predictable.
I have not lost hope of the title yet this year, don’t have any reason to do that yet, although there is one thing I’ve learned from being an Arsenal fan through the years. It is the hope that kills you.
Massive game Wednesday.
How do you know that Vinny?
You speak to him on a regular basis do ya?
If he’s a savvy business man, (which he obviously is) then surely he’ll work out that a winning team would be worth more?
I believe when he took over it was under the understanding that the club remained a self sustaining model and not a rich man’s plaything. It may take longer to get where we want to be, but we will do it in a safe and responsible way.
Or would you rather be under the fat and sweaty wing of the Uzbecky?
Lurky.
Gerv?
Really?
I can understand your gripe that we didn’t replace Gilberto or his skunkiness, even Song to a degree, but Gerv???? Per-lezzz.
He could of been replaced with a box of kipnuggets on a skateboard.
Scoring for fun?
He’s managed five playing up front for one of the top teams in the serie a.
H2H, it’s annoying every season to see another transfer window wasted yet again. Highlighted with the recent loan signing of the injured KK. Of course, jump to the conclusion I want some big Fat Russian in.
No, I would like to see us add a “fit” body or two when its obvious we need help.
I personally would have taken Shane Long this window as an additional forward. He’s no Falcao but he has pace, he’s a nuisance and has just scored 2 goals in 2 games for Hull. Does that sound like I want some big Fat Russian?
Watching the Spurzzzzz vs Everton and I would take Coleman over Sagna all day at the moment. That’s not to say Sagna shouldn’t be offered a new deal but even if he is surely we have to make a move for young Seamus?
What I found a little odd in January is the need for a midfielder and a striker and yet we have Campbell and Coquelin out on loan. Are they injured or not doing well?
Well according to the article below Coquelin is being misused at Frieburg and would be better off back at arsenal and Campbell is doing okay at Olympiakos and surely would be a better option than Park.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1856634-why-arsenal-loanee-francis-coquelin-is-failing-at-freiburg
I’m sure there’s a good reason for our squad policy but I for one wouldn’t have minded see Coquelin in the middle yesterday and the use of Campbell from time to time as a second striker/outlet for Ozil passing ability.
Might have been shit, but guess we’ll never know.
No it doesn’t Vinny.
But I don’t see the connection between Stan and our lack of transfers during the last window either.
I’ll admit that I’m a sunny sider, I pretty much hate all these labels, but if I’m going to be pigeon holed, then put me there.
Non the less, I was disapointed with our lack of action in the window, although I was not surprised as I personaly don’t think that January is the time to strengthen, that’s what the summer is for. I was bitterly dissapointed that we didn’t bring in a striker before September and I made that abundently clear here on these very pages.
I’ve been posting here for longer then most, by saying that I don’t mean that I know anything more or less about Arsenal, it is afteral nothing but opinion, however I’m seeing Steve T, another long time poster, being used to support certain peoples agendas. I’ve had the pleasure of disscussing all things Arsenal with him over the many years, we’ve even shared a bevvy or two in the real world, and imho, Steve is one of the most Sunny Sided gooners I’ve ever met, he’s positive to a fault and he loves the gunners. One of his mantras is “are we being the best we can be?”, we’ve discussed this in great length and it’s all here for anyone with the time (or desire) to go back and read it, and for years I have agreed with and supported his arguement that we were dragging our feet when it came to transfers. But that doesn’t mean I can’t be positive about where we are heading.
After years of being “also rans” we are finaly getting to be contenders in the real sense of the word. That we are where we are, really is a testiment to the work the manager and team has put in. Realisticaly speaking we have no right being anywhere near the Fossil fueled financed teams, but do I think we can improve? Yes I do.
Am I happy that we lost yesterday? FUCK NO.
It was horrible, but this is sport and these things happen. Chelsea beat all conquering Man Citeh, but fail to grab a goal against Wet Spam. Man Citeh thump seven past Norwich a few weeks ago but were luky to scrape a scoreless draw yesterday. I could go on forever, but you get the point right? These things happen and it has bugger all to do with who anyone broughtb in in the last window. The only teams that really strengthened were the relegation fodder and contrary to what you might think from reading the reactions from yesterday’s game, relegation fodder we are not.
Finally, I do believe that there must of been a player out there that could have made us stronger.
Is Shane Long that player though. Honestly?
So what if he scored for Hull, (yesterday was against a ten man sunderland btw.) Chamakh scored yesterday too.
Be honest, would you have put Shane Long’s name in the ring in mid December?
I wouldn’t have.
H2H,
Without Walcott, lack of pace is the main problem of this team, as majority of the fans started to realize and will agree. Lack of penetration, lack of runs through the tunnels, lack of runs behind the defenders, which results in lack of Ozil greatest power, through passes.
Gerv, has all that, he was maybe not the finisher we all hoped him to be, but his pace is surely missed, at least by me. He was always surrounded by two or three opp players when having the ball.
It is not the problem we sold him, the problem is we didn’t replaced him with player of similar characteristics. Another problem is that we will have quite a task finding a player with that pace and dribbling abilities for that price.
My question is. Was selling him, without replacing, for that money necessary?
I for one feel, that I would surely welcome him at the moment for the rest of the season, because he brings something that this team lacks at the moment.
Pace.
Ealier argument involving Aussie, IF, N7, Esso –
All good and pretty fair comments.
Aussie,
I would agree that looking at Kallstrom was an unexpected one but the Ramsey situation recurred late in the day, as did the Kallstrom one.
As a free emergency loan though, why wouldn’t you ? Nothing to lose.
Vinny: re your 0-32 stat @64, here is the record for the rest of the current Premier League clubs in winning the ECL, EPL, FA Cup and League Cup over the past eight seasons:
9-32: Chelsea, Man Utd
2-32: Liverpool, Man City
1-32: Swansea, Spurs
0-32: Aston Villa, Cardiff, Crystal Place, Everton, Fulham, Hull City, Newcastle, Norwich, Southampton, Stoke, Sunderland, West Brom, West Ham.
The titles/trophies add up to 24 because 2 FA Cups, 1 League Cup and 5 ECLs have been won by sides not currently in the Premiership.
Winning stuff is hard.
I actually do not think it is the ability (or lack of) of the team but rather the lack of desire that shows up every now and then in the games.
We could win the league with this team if everyone shows up. All down to consistency.
Why is the desire absent? fatigue? who knows! hopefully we can get that desire / confidence back, we definitely need it come wednesday!!
Pace is nothing without end product.
It is not the problem we sold him, the problem is we didn’t replaced him with player of similar characteristics.
A speedy clubfooted slaphead with the control of a mule?
Joking aside, I get it. I understand what you mean, but the window is shut now.
Plus, have you ever entertained the notion that maybe he (Gerv) wanted to leave himself?
He wanted to leave of course. Who can blame him, the fans didn’t have patience towards him and usually threated him like a speedy clubfooted slaphead with the control of a mule.
Which sometimes he was, to be honest. But, believe it or not, most of the time he was just a really talented, pacey forward, full of trickery, who only lacked confidence.
I’ve read all the drinks, as I usually do, and got to 74 (thanks H2H for your usual insightful comment) before I saw a mention of what I see as the most important issue: that we don’t seem to have an answer for teams who press us high up the pitch and hunt us down in packs, with pace.
I’ll add the Bayern game last year at the Emirates to the two H2H mentioned. The only thing I can think we can do is have a miraculously healed Theo at our disposal to give us a threat upfront, or maybe use Tomas to give us that speed of counter-pressing that he offers.
It’s an urgent question which I hope Arsene & the team will figure out an answer to with the fixtures just coming up. Any of you wise Gooners got any ideas?
Thanks again ‘Hoilic for the best post possible in the circumstances.
Great post as usual ‘holic and the rest of the drinks too 🙂
As some have mentioned before me, the KK loan deal is one that leaves a whole lot to be desired when it comes to Arsenal’s transfer deals. and if we desperately needed a signing, why, like NB1 mentioned before, didnt we callback Coquelin and/or Campbell from their loan spells to help us with the title push.
I for one believe Mr. Campbell would’ve offered us plan B with his runs from Mr. Ozil’s through balls.
Gerv???? puliiiiizzz, i saw enough of him in the red and white shirt and nothing about him pleased me (his hair-do included).
I still believe we can win the league with the squad we have having brought us this far..as both chelsea and citeh have to go to liverpool and citeh have to go to their city rivals, yanited…ours will have to start with a win over yanited on wed, followed by one hell of an unbeaten run in the league (lets forget the ECL, its a long shot considering the opposition), then a win at the spuds, atleast a point at chelsea and one at everton and we beat citeh…then one hell of a winning run after which the title will be ours i BELIEVE!
Call me a “SUNNY SIDER” I’ll take that coz i love my beloved Arsenal!
COYRRG
Lurky. I’ll agree with the lack of confidence bit, however, I think you rate him a lot higher then I ever did, your opinion ofcourse and I respect that, even if I don’t agree with it.
Cheers, Mr Trilby.
I didn’t like the shape and make up of the team yesterday, I thought at the time it was a mistake to bring Jack back so quick, plus putting Ox, who’s just back himself, in the same starting XI was an unnecassary risk.
Hindsight is ofcourse a wonderful tool, but I believe we would of been better served with TR7 in the middle, with Poldi instead of the Ox. We missed Flamini, but as we’ve seen before his partnership with Arteta doesn’t always pay dividends, but this time it may have as he is much more switched on defensivly.
Of all the players absent, Ramsey was the one we missed most.
I’m not sure what the answer is to our problem, but I believe we need to cut our cloth more accordingly to suit our opposition, however I won’t be holding my breath because I don’t believe That that is Arsene’s style. The only remedy I can think of is giving the Manc scummers a good kicking.
Fulham has just gone one up against them. Ha Ha.
Hello
I’m a regular lurker in this bar but a first-time poster. I cannot believe the response to yesterday’s game from many quarters (not necessarily from those posting on here I might add). I watched the game, every last shambolic minute and can safely say it’s right up there with the worst moments of Arsenal supporting I’ve experienced. Lacklustre, turgid, sloppy, complacent, gutless…….
I stuck out the full 90 despite wanting to leave the pub 19 minutes in because in my opinion supporting Arsenal means supporting them through good, bad and downright appalling. That doesn’t mean the team is beyond reproach – they deserve to be heavily criticised for yesterday’s outcome.
However, what I am struggling to understand is the response of some fans – “We won’t finish in the top 4”, “That’s it, another year without a trophy” “Why did we buy Ozil?”etc. Last time I looked we were one point off the top of the Premier League, still in three competitions, with 14 points more than we had after 25 games last year. To me, that’s progress. OK we may or may not win something this season but even if we don’t I think there’s evidence we’re moving in the right direction. I seem to recall Manchester United suffering a 6-1 drubbing at home in 2011/12, the year they finished second to Man City on goal difference alone.
Yesterday was an absolute stinker, the Man City and Villa games were too. But I’m not writing this team off. We have 13 games left to play in the league. Giving up now would make me as gutless and defeatist as the performance we all witnessed yesterday.
Get behind the team, ladies and gents. They need our support not our vitriol. There’s still a lot left to play for. Come on you Gunners.
Oh and Fulham 1 United 0. Get in.
Been looking for something to reinflate my balloon. Finally found this on the BBC website:
A depressed United fan: Losing to Fulham at home. Life doesn’t get worse than this.
Fair enough H2H, I do not think you are the only Arsenal fan I disagree re. Gerv. In fact, I struggle to find someone who rates him in this bar except abb. But, can’t help myself, I rate him a lot, that’s it. Always a pleasure debating with you, anyway.
Welcome, Block 93.
Agree, the club is moving in the right direction, both on and off the pitch. However, there is still s much room for improvement, especially on the injury front and of course on transfer front where, Ozil transfer aside, we act like we are still in 20 century.
Quick one-two, 8 ball
Landlord is it possible to go back and call out all those people that wanted Wenger replaced with moyes?
Lurkjs.
Lurks for glory. NB1 you de man. 🙂 Lurky you de other man. 🙂
Well in Ned.
Tabs position for 8ball.
——-
Welcome Block 93.
I often try to catch the paper review on Sky Sports news at 7.30 each morning. Today’s review was done by a tabloid hack on the Mirror, Darren Lewis who I have little time for.i believe he is a Tottenham fan but today he was obviously keen to jump on the idea that Arsenal are falling apart behind the scenes . His evidence for this was that Sanogo apparently lamped Mertesacker in training( two weeks ago) and Giroud had a bit of extra- curricular with a ‘ model’. This last incident looks suspiciously like a set- up by the paper involved.
I am sure Arsenal fans were astonished that a handsome , rich , young man had sex the night before a match. Surely no player has EVER done that before!? Added to the fact that uniquely one Arsenal player hit another it offers conclusive proof that all is falling apart at the club.
What a lot of pathetic drivel !!! These training ground incidents happen all the time. They used to happen at training when I played and certainly they have been happening for years at Arsenal. I believe Peter Storey was regularly involved in confrontations with his teammates and I once saw a picture of Steve Bould and Vieira squaring up to each other. The only annoying thing about this is that I wish Sanogo would put all his efforts in getting fit and scoring goals rather than rucking with the BFG. And while I don’t condone Giroud’s behaviour he is French and he may just be following the lead of his President.
It’s hard not to feel that the media are trying to cause trouble for Arsenal. We can see their agenda and the themes they are trying to promote. Let’s hope we can ram their words back down their throats this week
Block 93
Same here! Exactly the same! Including sitting in the same pub i always go to watch games and wanting to leave early but still staying and praying, not for a win but that it’s not getting any worse.
As for wednesday, we owe that lot so much i really hope we end their season for good.
It’s just hit whoring from the media, ttg. Waiting to release a story for maximal impact.
They do it to everyone, the first example that springs to mind was the Kyle Walker Hippy crack incident, the story broke when he was on England duty, (because no one gives a rat’s arse about the Totts) even though it had happened weeks before.
The problem is that the drama seekers lap it up and use it to fan the flames of their negativity.
Aaah the meedja TTG?
Need some proof they are just wankers? I couldn’t resist and watched some ot motd after coming home last night. Why is every single action in every game double or tripple checked but not a question if it could have been offside for the first and /or a foul before the third against us yesterday? I don’t search for excuses, we didn’t show up that’s it. But that was a pretty important game, can’t i ask for some unbiased opinions?
H2H @ 85 – masterful, mate. Said it all.
…and MU win again… shite!
Ha Ha Fulham equalise. 😆
Thanks ‘Holic for the perspective. Yesterday’s match is over and we can’t go back and change anything about the match (same with the past transfer windows), so let’s look forward to the upcoming matches and make sure yesterday doesn’t happen again.
This is not say I’m not terribly disappointed in yesterday’s match, and I think we played like shite. The most frustrating aspect of match from my perspective was the lack of energy and motivation from much of the team. Other than Jack, Ox, Giroud, and Chez it seems like the team shut off after the first goal (and interestingly it was those four along with Per who tweeted/facebooked after the match and apologized to the fans, admitted to playing like crap, and acknowledging they need to do better on Wednesday). I would expect a professional footballer playing for Arsenal to be furious with first 20 minutes and go after the rest of the match with a passion to show that they do have the quality to compete with Poo.
Anyway, I hope they find their heads and give a proper spanking to Manure.
COYG!
H2H, ha indeed!
I take it back 😀
Cheers Bath.
—
The dejection on the face of the mancs has cheered me up no end.
#schadenfreuderulz
“Moyes Time” has the opposite effect of “Fergie Time” 🙂 😀
Dear Schadenfreude,
Please consider yourself invited to a gathering at 7:45 on Wednesday night.
It would be rude not to attend 😉
Heh @ BB, just like his managing skills.
Pz Trilby@93: we have the answer in theory, patient possession passing to take the sting out of the pressing. I think that was what AW was referring to when he talked about the importance of controlling the tempo of the game from the outset. High, aggressive pressing is clearly noticeable when it works (as yesterday for Liverpool) but just looks like headless chickens running about when it doesn’t. And no team, not even Barca, can sustain the level of intensity needed for high pressing for a full game. That all said, I can’t recall a game in which we gave the ball away in the first 20 minutes as much as we did yesterday. And to points made in other drinks, missing Theo takes away our best threat of a fast counter, and makes one of Ozil’s strengths, the through pass, redundant. Ramsey, though, is our biggest miss. His perpetual motion gives us an extra man in support both when we are attacking and defending.
H2H@103: always happy to take your plaudits but that one should be for NB1 (no relation). And a doff of the cap to your @85. Well said.
Let’s hope United’s mediocrity continues into Wednesday.
But if the Tube strike goes on I just can’t see how they can play it.Its really the only way for most people to get to Arsenal.
Having been charged over £160 for the Bayern game I don’t want to fail to get to a game because of there being no trains
Fulham to do more of the same against liverpool too on Wednesday! 🙂
Ahh, cheers Ned. Apologies and belated congrats to NB1.
Heh @ zico.
Thank christ David Moyes is not our manager.
Just watched the Yanited game. I am not ashamed to admit that I drew a deep satifaction on seeing well known gooner Darren Bent burst thier bubble in the last minute of five added. Does that make me petty and vindictive? Very probably. I’ll just have to learn to live with yet another character flaw.
And the look on Fergie”s face was priceless. His millionaire mate Mick (Twat) Hucknall didnt look all that thrilled either. They say money cant buy you happiness and there lies the evidence.
Remarkably buoyed by the whole OT experiance, I have to say.
Please Arsenal, rub thier smug faces in the dirt on Wednesday.
Petty and vindictive?
Absolutely.
N7. Well said!
And no hard feelings !
Ha ha – cheers IF, and likewise!
Played ‘h – me too givin’ it plenty o’ blip, plus some kipnuggets on a skateboard – Ureds.
The return of the Rev’.
Good to see ya AL.
Stan James offering 10/1 odds against Ferguson returning as the next Yanited manager. Stranger things have happened.
H2H – not sure how I missed your @85 first time through but great stuff – as flagged up by Bath.
David Moyes ? Brilliant manager ! Who else could have done any better at Everton …………. Oh, hang on – has he ? 😉
Hey AL – great post. What was it about ? 😉
bt8 – Fergie will not return.
He knew exactly what he was leaving them with. Can you honestly see him coming back into that position and risking the status built up over all those years.
He won’t get his way with authority so easily after ‘that’ book, either.
Fuck them all.smash united and were well back in the game.thers only one sunny side in life,winners.
Thanx for the kind ones Trev. I think AL was refering to my post @81 for half of his post, not sure about the blip bit though.
I do agree with what you say about the ol beetroot. He squeezed one more season out of that squad so he could secure his legacy and go out on top, why the hell would he want to come back.
It was about 10 past, Trev (you asked, for it). Re blip: see guv, shorely. Plus u can’t darken this doorstep and not appreciate what the north london dutchman’s got to say, can u?
To silverware, this season, and beyond.
Heh Al. 🙂
psed: i said – silverware, not: silver where? #We’reGonnaWinTheLeague-Soon–ish.CosWe’reQuiteGoodAndGettinBetter.
UpTheArse.
Believe it or not I am a sunnysider (great name whoever invented it). I have hoped to see Arsenal win every game since I became a gooner 64 years ago. But a sunnysider who always excuses poor performances or (and this is my main plaint here) refuses to see problems even when they’re winning, is a bit of a Shakespearean idiot … full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Like most here I expected a comfortable win against Poo, 2-0 to us is what I posted here. This despite expressing dissatisfaction with lacklustre performances, lack of killer instinct, and obvious deficiencies in our play, and especially with some key players, in practically all our recent games. So it’s easy to get caught up in the hype, the victim of hope over experience.
In truth it has been coming, and I fear the psychological damage that will result. Thankfully we have points in the bag, and enough games against lower sides to rack up more and keep us in the top 4, but title contenders? Wake up and smell the coffee. We are STILL several key players short of serious challengers which COULD have been resolved if we’d upped the offer for Suarez to an irresistible level in January.
Excellent comments from Trev at #60 (especially the Poldi mystery) and Lurky at #79 (except Gervinho, he’s just playing in a soft league where he’s found his level), and both of them in later comments.
N7 #48 … It was us who were 4-0 ahead and let them come back for a draw.
Öskar
Cheers, Oskar.
Ppsed – trev goes, and ‘e knows.
#IStillFinkWe’llWinSumFink(QuiteSoon-Ish).
I only post here (or anywhere else for that matter) when Arsenal have lost but only to defend what I feel is over the top criticism of the team. Are there some issues around team selection and balance? Yes. Could the transfer window have gone any better? I do not know. I have no reason to believe that people at the club are not doing everything they can to improve our situation given the constraints. All the talk of the world class players we did not buy in January probably results from a “Oil Sheikarch” view to the world where there is no problem that money cannot solve.
As for the Liverpool game, it’s probably the 3rd game of the season when almost every single player simultaneously had an off day. It happens once in a while and I am not surprised that it happens more often to us than to City or Chelsea as they are paying for a far better class of players.
Having said that, I hope our boys give united the cunting that has been due for so long. I have suffered for far too long at the hands of their “fans” over the last 8 years.
COYG!
Ooops, re Suarez in my previous I meant the bid for Suarez in the summer window, NOT January.
Öskar
hi sound and fury Oskar! if the release clause in a contract is released at 40Million GBP (sorry i’m typing on a USA keyboard and can’t be bothered to look up the sterling symbol) then surely an offer of 40Million GBP and even just 1 pence would release it?
Why offer any more unless someone else comes in with a bid…say 40 Million and tuppence, then the bidding can go higher…but why initially offer more than you need to? that is of course if it is understood clearly that the release clause is activated over 40Million…
I also feel the psychological damage done will be difficult to respond to so quickly before Wed’s ‘massive’ game…massive in that if it is a loss then its all over for us as the meedja insist on reminding us…
Pëter 🙂
All i asked for in my match preview was that win lose or draw,the team gave 200% commitment to the game.
I think if we knock off the 2 zero’s,that would probably be what we got.
Why.?? i have no idea.
The team seemed completely unable to resist the early attacking storm.
Are we now paying the price for the lack of rotation,partuicularly in defence.Sagna/Kos and Per have hardly had a break since before Chirstmas.
I do think if TV hadn’t got injured,he would have had some game time against the lesser lights.
The Boss has hardly used Jenks as a rotation option for Bac,so whether he doesn’t think he is up to it or not,i guess we can only speculate.
But that means 3 out of the first choice back 4 have had hardly any rest all season.
With Arteta being found out by his chronic lack of pace,once the attacking front line run at him and breach that holding defensive midfield position,Per and Kos are completely outnumbered.
Sterling/Sturridge and Suarez were too quick for us both physically and mentally,with Sterling and Suarez playing wide and giving Bac and Monreal a torrid time, and with Sturridge through the middle,that is as potent an attacking force as the Man City front 3.
And in both matches we got taken to the cleaners.
The question i now ask myself is whether our 2 title rivals would have fared any better.Would they have been blown away as we were,??
Were we that bad,or were Liverpool that good,and have we done them a disservice by blaming our own teams failings.
Have we hit the wall,??are we about to have a Feb meltdown which cost us our last shot at the title in 7/8.
Will the Boss be able to salvage team morale and belief from the wreckage of Anfield.
I don’t subscribe to the theory that the Utd game is a ‘ must win ‘.
I think it is more a question of ‘ don’t lose ‘, and if we win it is a bonus.
But another defeat would be seriously damaging.
Chelsea were the opponents at the Ems after the Man Ciy debacle and we showed a much more pragmatic approach to that game and rebuilt the confidence levels and went on a good unbeaten run thereafter,so i expect something similar to happen on Wed night.
Avoid defeat and build from there.
There is still a long way to go in the Title race,after Utd we have Sunderland/Stoke and possibly Swansea,depending on our Cuptie against Liverpool,3 eminently winnable games,which will keep us in touch with the top going in to March.
The fight back starts on on Wed night, with the emotional support of the fans and a resilient performance from the team, to show us our faith in them to go all the way,is not misplaced.
Cheers
The Sweeper
Clive knows.
Good to see David Moyes guiding Mancheser IOU to an Evertonesque “competetive” top ten finish.
Arsene Wenger has his faults, but being David Moyes isnt one of them.
I hope Mr Moyes’s riegn lasts many a long year.
Although many have opined that the introduction of “fresh blood” in the form of a new manager could sweep the cobwebs from the club, the reality is that its just getting harder and harder to see who that man might be.
So its AW until the sword can be pulled from the stone by his rightfull successor.
If that man turns out to have the fist name “Pep”, so much the better.
On the subject of the Liverpool travesty,its definately not a one off,mores the pity. But, as Holic says, its not a season definer in itself. If we lose to United however…………
May the football gods decree that sanity (and form) return to those in Arsenal colours later this week, and that RVP, Rooney and Mata are stricken with a rare but debilitating pasta based virus in the interim.
Saints preserve the good ship Arsenal, and all who sail in her!
If we don’t manhandle United I’d be shocked. This is a broken team. It’s only a matter of time before the players just throw in the towel on Moyes. Pretty enjoyable to watch actually 🙂
Peter … we did bid 40,000,001 for Suarez in January, but triggering a release clause doesn’t mean we automatically secured his transfer. Nor does it mean Suarez was obliged to move to whoever triggered the clause. The player still gets to say where he is prepared to be transferred to, and to agree salary terms with a new club. £40,000,001 was just an amount which meant Poo had to open negotiations … and accept what the player wanted to do. Those negotiations would of course have included whatever they were prepared to offer Suarez to stay, and we don’t know what that might have included.
I’m saying we should have upped the bid to an amount which Poo would have found irresistible … say £50mil+. And I did say so at the time.
Öskar
I’d respond to this idiot but his comments will be deleted soon enough …
Well, well, well? A lot of criticism, of the optimistic. Been on the receiving end of that myself.
I am not ganging up with anyone just because I agree with what they say, but there are two points above which do reflect my point of view:
1) That was our first defeat at Anfield in the league in 7 years
2) At the end of the day, it was 5 goals but it was only 3 points. Yes we are still in the race, but we have a lot of work cut out for us. Some of us here were at least expecting a point from Saturday. I for one though was expecting all 3 because I believe that on our day, we are THAT good! Our recent record shows that.
I am going to show a little respect and not pick out individuals, but I could see from the warm up, who was ready for that match and who was not.
For instant:
*Why on earth were the press publishing stories of Per saying he wanted to sign Luis this week?
* Why on earth was I subject to Owen having a party on my screen during the game, after clearly ruling us out of the race before the season kicked off?
* Why was the first goal allowed?
* Why didn’t we do what the boss said “absorb the pace from the start of the game and then get into it”?
See how I did not blame any one individual from our team there?
Anyway. I am sure that Utd just like us, had one eye on Wednesday night’s game this weekend, as the main rivals of the first half of the premiere leagues tenure. One wanting to prove, they still dominate the second half and the other wanting to prove they are over their whodo. Eitherway it’s a must win game for either club.
As much as Jose will not want to give up first place, he still has a few more points to drop before the end of the season. History tells us that. As predicted by myself last week, City had points to drop since their defeat to Chelsea. The one positive thing to come out of the media is that they expect us to go on another one of our comeback runs. Something that, this upcoming schedule requires. If we nick points off of City and Chelsea amongst others, spoiling a couple of parties and records, we are back where we belong again!
What do you say guys? 😉
Anyone fancy an F.A cup?
Nice one GT.
Anytime Bath
Sorry to be so mundane, but back-drinking, it seems that there are two groups of supporters: one for whom the primary reason for watching/supporting Arsenal is to enjoy good football and for whom the occasional trophy is a bonus, and the other for whom the be-all and end-all is silverware, without which the end of the world is nigh and everything the most successful management team the club has ever known has done is suddenly shit after one bad defeat.
I’m not defending the shambles on Saturday, NO-ONE IS. And that it is the second shambles this season is also worrying. But that doesn’t make the manager and the squad rubbish. Improvements are needed to the squad and they will come when available at a price we can afford. We can’t afford what City and Chelsea can.
We are still in second place and there will be many more surprising results before the season is over. The squad came back from the last shambles so it’s time to get behind the team for Wednesday – all of us, not just those splendid away fans.
Arsene Wenger – three more years.
Even after all that’s been written in the last few months, the lack of understanding people have of how contractual clauses work is stunning.
Evidently there was no release clause in this case.
However, had their been a release clause (as per our info), bidding anything more than we did, in the absence of other suitors, would have been quite simply throwing money away.
I say this as someone who drafts and negotiates contracts for a living, and who has spent a fair bit of time looking at contractual trigger clauses. People are furious about something they don’t even appear to understand. Standard.
Basically, our intel was wrong. Our response to that intel was what any lawyer worth their salt would have advised.
I’d like to commend Clive for his comments earlier. As ever, they serve as a guiding light for most fans. In particular his praise for ‘Pool as Holic had mentioned earlier, who were just brilliant in the opening 20 mins.
The first two goals we conceded were from set pieces. I think the first was lucky (it was offside and took 3 touches to get past Woj), and the second was just careless and lucky (you don’t often see lob-headers being scored).
Even from being 2-0 down though, we should have had to the fortitude to make adjustments on the field. We needed to drop off, get people behind the ball and reset the defensive line. By not doing that, we gave ‘Pool even more space to run into and they ran riot. So tactical naivete contributed to the concession of the 3rd and 4th goals.
We lack pace in some key areas, at full back, up front but especially in DCM when Arteta becomes a target for good teams. Chelski targeted him at the Ems as well. Arteta is very good if you stand off him and allow him to pass. He then becomes the heartbeat for the team. But it’s a different story when you attack him and force him to turn. Most people forget that Arteta is not a DCM – so its not his fault he finds himself being played out of position. And Flamini, for all that he has brought to the team this season, is some distance from being a world class DCM. This is the reason Wenger supposedly bid for Lars Bender. We need to buy a world class DCM and we have needed that player for some time now.
However, despite all this, the most worrying aspect about Saturday was we never pressed in midfield and if anything, Liverpool were far more hungry and up for the contest from the outset. This is the business end of the season, and there was a serious lack of bite and application. This is point where the season really begins and you wonder why have worked so hard all this season, only to roll over like flakes.
We can talk all day about signings, or the lack of, but there is absolutely nothing to excuse a lack of work ethic. It was absolutely indefensible and that’s what Wenger meant when he said he wasn’t above scrutiny either.
I watched the Rugby afterwards, where professional players being paid a lot less, put their bodies on the line and it really does make you wonder.
Yes, a lot of gung-ho ‘trigger happy supporters’ out here!
They think ‘pull that trigger’ and release the Arsenal and we’re off to sign anybody we please! How naive! Bless em! After all, the support is made up of a broad range of the spectrum! 😉
I havent commented anywhere but here and i feel i need to take it out here because there are sensible people here who love The Arsenal like i do.
I dont want to dwell to much about what went wrong but just a bit ok. First goal- why the hell did sagna/mert not clear a simple thrown in, kick it out do whatever but clear, instead he tried to play it out and suarez hustled him and resulted in the free kick. Allowing Skrtel to score is a crime, giroud left ball watching, the next 3 goals were a joke, they just ran past us as if we werent there.The team selection was poor, how can you have monreal as left back knowing he mucks up in big games, a midfield of jack, arteta will never work as mikel will be out run and jack out of position, i know we dint have options but why would you not start with rozza is beyond me.
I am sorry but this was the most shambolic performance i have seen in ages and i have seen the team without missing a game from the last 18 years, even the 8-2 dint feel this bad because that game dint have a team, this was close to the best team we could have had and we got humiliated.
Wednesday i dont have much hope, no not because of this loss but more so because we lose to united in the head even before stepping on to the pitch, hopefully i am proven wrong, god forbid if they score first. the crowd will go bonkers and players doing the same, we need a collective effort for if we win this, this could also be a springboard, please guys as the great man said, remember who you are and for fuck sake remember who you play for.
At home, manflu plus. Thanks again for maintaining the standard in the wake of a bad one.
Appreciated.
Gooner town – are you suggesting above that we somehow lost to Liverpool because we had one eye on the big midweek fixture v utd (who are midtable) and they so had a tough match v Fulham for the same reason of having an eye on us.
Also gooner town – I guess you are pleased that arsene held his trigger finger and saved a few bucks by wisely adding kallstrom to our roster.
Congrats
Why are people so unkind!
Get well soon Guv’nor.
Joe 155 spot on. What concerned me is that a team of experienced international players who found themselves blitzed 2-0 after 10 mins, didn’t seem to have the wit to batten down the hatches and let the storm blow out, with the possibility at that stage of making a come back as the match progressed. Shit happens, it’s just 1 defeat and loss of 3 potential points. Let’s see what reaction there is on Wednesday.
COYRRR
For those piling in to Arteta, I thought he was immense against Liverpool at the Emirates.
He did have the benefit of one Aaron Ramsey that night mind.
Ups,
didn’t seem to have the wit to batten down the hatches….
We are at the mercy of Wenger’s intellectual philopsophy here – he expects players to have the intelligence to work situations out for themselves.
But they’re footballers, and that expectation has always struck me as being at best naive and more often than not, foolhardy.
Hello Aussie
I take it you are taking one of my sentences to simplify my view of why we lost on Saturday. Surely not, as that would be far too simplistic and I would like to give you more credit than that, if that is okay.
At the same time, your estimation of my feelings regarding the purchase of Kallstrom certainly does not reflect what I posted in this very same forum the night it was announced that we signed KK. So again, I do not feel it necessary to address your assumption.
…Victoria, Concrdia Creset
Excuse me…Concordia
I get what you’re saying zico, but there are different kinds of intelligence. In this case, AW is expecting them to have a footballing intelligence, built of years of playing the game at the top level, and to expect that is not at all naive. Without it, they couldn’t even reach this level.
What happened on Saturday was a kind of collective paralysis after the second goal – no-one took command and shouted instructions, either on or off the field. This is where Liverpool were red-hot – they didn’t give our players a moment’s peace or time to regroup. They just kept the pressure up. So I think a bit of thinking and hollering from the bench was called for.
By the time the 4th goal went in, it was game over and everyone knew it. But there was still goal difference to consider. Us vs Chelsea swung by 7 goals at the weekend. That’ll take some making up, especially as we seem to sit back once we’re 2-0 up.
But that’s enough of the spilt milk for me.
Onward and upward.
Oskar@147: continuing the Shakespearean theme…obviously Love’s Labours have been completely Lost as regards Suarez in the summer…guess the Boss did not want to spend 92.5 Million on 2 players, especially one who was in the middle of a 10 game ban, and could have continued his season biting someone else and being thereby banned again.
did Boss spend the right 42.5 Million…time will tell
N7Gooner@153,154…thanks for clarifying…as I thought…and, did anyone else come in to up the bidding afterwards?
So why was there no hollering from the bench then, DK?
Not Arsene’s style?
At the risk of generalising, I don’t think AW is particularly good at adapting to game situations. That’s part of the reason that both Ferguson and Maureen have been able to get the better of him.
In my humble opinion.
[…] Goonerholic: […]
Zico
While I have the greatest respect for what Wenger has done for our club you do underline probably his greatest strength and at the same time his greatest fault -he doesn’t panic… but neither does he react quickly enough. I joked in an ironic way to the the chap I watched the game with that the substitutions would come on the hour or failing that exactly halfway through the half as is his way.So they did!
Our formation and attitude needed sorting at half time and so did some of the personnel. I would have brought Rosicky on immediately as well as Podolski.
I think he is overawed by Mourinho and this tends to show when we play Chelsea. I thought his post match comments were brave and humble but the problem still remains.
By and large posters here have been extremely sensible but we do need to point out some challenges if we are to be truly successful.
Please don’t let Sturridge score any more goals…I can’t bear that dancing afterwards…please!
Also thought Joe @155 put in a superb post, as is his wont . The point about Arteta is particularly good and suggests Rodgers learnt the lessons of that day at the Emirates when he was MOTM. Flamini has been excellent this season but I think he should be regarded as a very useful squad player not our best ( only?) DM.
Nope.
After a 48 hour self-imposed media ban, I’m still mad as hell as these lazy, spineless half-asses who wore the kit on Saturday. Disgraceful, all of them.
Joe at 155 – well said.
Resuming self-imposed media ban (to relief of all, i’m certain).
Hello people. The bar has returned to normal and thank goodness for that. TTG@174 re: Flamini, You are quite correct stating that the flamster is to be regarded as a very useful squad player and nothing much more. Flamini is quite strong and defensively aware but he is lacking in any kind of attacking impetus. We don’t need a “Defensive Midfielder”. That position is practically obsolete. What we need in my estimation is a very strong ball playing midfielder who is as comfortbale passing the ball as he is getting stuck in(Chuks Aneke, but his inexperience would surely count against him). There is a plethora of very good (diminutive) attacking midfielders at our disposal but we need that streak of nasty in the middle. That is for the summer.
Regarding the immediate future, there is the small matter of getting the thumping on saturday out of the system. What better may to do so than against an odious bunch that need to be taught a lesson. Great opportunity if you ask me.
COYG.
Get well soon Holic.
Thank you U, and solid.
Sweating it out…
Sweaty?
Well, well…. 😎
Top post Joe @ 155.
Sadly could not see the JW miniatures selection when I went thru Heathrow last week I contented myself with a half bottle of Old Pulteney to keep my cockles warm on the slopes.
As a result of the flight timings I simply saw the final score and took until last night to summon up the courage (without Dutch) to watch the highlights.
I do think our squad has done remarkably well to get to where we are currently but believe that we are three players short for me to be confident that we will be there at the end.
It is clearly too late to rectify that now but I do believe that we tried to rectify two of those deficits in the summer (top striker – Suarex; dominant midfielder – Bender) and to cover those deficits in January but we are no longer prepared to buy B grade options and could not get the players we wanted or the short term loans we wanted.
As well as a top striker and a dominant defensive midfielder, I believe we need a further reliable CB…..another RB can be added to the list if Bac is off as rumoured. TV5 isn’t going to hang around if he can’t break into the team in the remainder of this season so make that two CBs in the summer.
I think MO11 was an impulse buy as he fits Arsene’s mould but we were certainly after a striker not another MFer of that type. The failures with Suarez and Bender led to that opportunistic purchase and I still believe he has added quality to the team even if he is running out of steam as a result of the Premiership pace. Remember he is used to winter breaks in Germany and only 4 competitive games in Spain. He must be shattered by the Premiership’s never ending full-on competition. Kallstrom is another opportunistic move – a result of the Ramsey set-back – and he may never don the shirt in anger. Here’s hoping Rambo recovers at least as soon as he does and renders him redundant.
COYG
Spot on with that observation Dr Z @ 170.
Get well soon Holic.
Hot toddie with plenty brown sugar and blended cratur tonight, H.
Heh z 🙂
Tried ‘feeding’ it yesterday bath, opting for the ‘starving’ it option today. Monday to Thursday are no drinkies nights.
Hello all,
First of all: Get well soon, Holic!
Been in self-imposed Media Lockdown Mode since Saturday. Have done a cursory back-drink now, and I have nothing to add to what has already been said. It’s been and gone and as shit as it was all we can do now in my opinion is to look forward.
Onwards and upwards, can we please bounce back against ManU?
Good stuff joe, zico, ttg and bath.
Get well soon ‘holic.
Monday to Thursday are no drinkies nights….
But that’s a whole week. 😉
Medicinal indications don’t count, Holic.
Interpret that as a prescription. 🙂
Am off to the AST meeting tonight to hear Paddy Barclay on Herbert Chapman. I suspect the conversations we’ve been having here will be repeated there.
For those who like the conspiricy theorys amd have been (correctly) questioning why it is that Citen seem to be getting the rub of the green when it comes to referee’s decisions, here’s more food for thought;
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26115540
Get well soon, Guv.
Bath,
In relation to the JW miniatures, they were hidden away on a top shelf and only for I asked, I would have missed them too..! But the blue label alone is beyond smooth and in the realm of very fine Macallan and definitely worth the effort. I have been sipping and savouring the HP18. It really is top class and I find its only when you taste it beside some other good drops, that you appreciate its quality all the more!
Couldn’t agree with more in relation to the transfer strategy and Ozil. (I note Paddy Barclay was particularly harsh on Ozil today in the Standard and I don’t think it was all that fair. I guess players of that value will always be held to account but as you say, people need to realise his youth and appreciate the adaption period in changing language, country, culture etc. I think Ozil was just as culpable as everyone else. No more, no less.) The summer told its own story: that for players of this magnitude, money is sometimes not enough. Other factors and conditions apply.
When we talk about a reaction on Wednesday – I would happily take a 1-0 win all day long. I think Clive is so right when he says its more important we don’t loose and restore some confidence. Our strike force is limited but you only need to score once to take the points.
As we value honesty and integrity in this bar, a doff of the cap to Arsenal Ladies captain Stoney Casey for coming out.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26084748
@ 185
Nearly a fortnight in drinking terms. 😉
My monks ran the @171 link through their Chinese to English translation machine — as if I didn’t know they use Google’s language translation service. (This is why I make them stick to crunching numbers.) But even in mangled Chinglish, Holic, you still sound remarkably level headed:
Lost the game itself not to mean the season to be finished, although you will read such viewpoint in certain places. The demon competition schedule has the great significance to the entire season trend, the beginning then suffers such serious attack, has these responses is also understandable. We can only hope that this is a fluctuation, but start of non-crash.
And get better soon. Medicinal brandy is the doctor’s orders.
Zico 170…. Been out in a bowls match this afternoon so not able to respond earlier. Nail & head come to mind. If the players were unable to organise themselves properly, then it should fall on the manager / coach on the sidelines to instruct them what to do. Every time the camera switched to our management team, they were looking despondent and just rooted to their seats – I doubt if Maureen, Slur Alex or even Brenda would have been sitting on their hands!
When Arsene stated that they must all look at themselves including him, hopefully it was with this in mind.
Bath 180 on transfer strategy….Bath knows 🙂
Evening chaps – Dont feel quite so bad today must be something to do with them wankers coming to town on Wednesday night 😉 As for Ozil the lads top class and its far to early to be writing him off, As ive said on previous drinks you will not see the best of him untill he has players capable of making forward runs for him to find.
On another note is it just me or do others find the use of the words Man poo – Spuds – Shite Fart Lane – Liverfool etc etc infantile – I want to scream everytime i see them written 🙂 Sorry for going of on one, that has fuck all to do with anything, but thought id get it of my chest 🙂
No, no Chippy, it’s Liverpoo.
Indeed outragously infantile.
I luvs it. 😉
A survey has been published…honestly…. that shows Spurs are the 7th strongest club side in the world above Arsenal and the two Manchester clubs. We are in 12th position! I have not attached the link to the story because it must be an early April fool but it will clearly be hurled at us by the N17 saddoes in the very near future. Bayern, Real Madrid and Chelsea were the top three. To say I would regard it as not worth the paper it is written on would be an exaggeration!
H2H,
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh don’t you start 🙂
Hope alls well fella !!
Heh, sorry Chippy, couldn’t resist it. 😉
I’m fine cheers, you too, I hope.
ttg, I’d like to see that link, purely out of a morbid curiosity.
Strikes ! 😉
Well in Trev.
Well in Trev, H2H and sundry glory hunters. 🙂
I’m not a glory hunter.
I’m one of those damn sunny siders.
Accidental glory achiever at 201?
I didn’t go for it 8ball, so it’s not a glory position.
Come on, you should know the rules by now, 😉
“S-Side” as I like to call it.
Working on a complex hand signal as I type.
Good posts above from the ususal suspects.
But to put things in perspective,
Us lot have had only 4 bad weekends in 6 months.!!
That is a vast improvement on previous seasons.
it is also good to see the Players comments on the Arse website,about how unacceptable their performance was on Saturday,their tribute to the fans non stop support,and their determination to put things right starting with the Utd game.
I have a Utd aquaintance, who couldn’t get on the phone quick enough to give me absolute grief after the Anfield debacle,but since Bent scored a 94th minute equalizer at Old Trafford on Sunday,i haven’t heard a peep out of him.
My Chelsea mate on the other hand who is a much more balanced individual,sent me a text to commiserate on our loss.
My 2 Liverpool mates did the same,as did my long time Hammers pal.
Like the Club and the ex manager,we all know the classless individual from the above.
Cheers
The Sweeper
lads and lasses local to the grove that is ashburton…what news about the tube strike and its affect on Wednesday’s festivities?
Joe @190, I’ll go top shelf the next time I pass thru Heathrow – hopefully won’t be too long away.
Paddy Barclay was much more measured when he spoke about MO11 tonight – talked about all the off-field stuff that can affect a player – said he played on Saturday v Pool as if a parent had died or a GF had left him. Who knows? He accepted my observation that he might simply be knackered as he has never been asked to play so many games let alone so many competitive games.
PB is clearly not an Arsenal Fan but he is a genuine fan of Arsenal, Arsene and Herbert Chapman. Talked affectionately about all three and about Gorgeous George.
Scruz @208
Tonight at the AST meeting, most people thought it should be postponed but the Club clearly do not expect that to happen – apparently announcing that fans should leave early for the game and ‘consider walking from Kings Cross, Euston or Liverpool Street’.
Seems like the TV Companies are calling the shots and postponement in the interests of fans attending the game is unlikely. There was general consensus that if it was vs West Brom and not televised it would have been postponed by now.
cheers, baff. sorry for all who have a tough route to the game (though I’d love to be in their shoes!).
Several Yanited squad members are denying their recent remarks were attempts to undermine Moyes. Don’t they want to help their club?
Bath,
I’m glad to hear that. Like most, I’m usually selective about what journalist I read and Barclay is certainly one. So I was a little surprised to hear him talk about Ozil so singularly. It won’t stop me getting his book on Chapman though. And as you say, its a subject matter that you’d have to appreciate and love somewhat to give it such time.
Joe, he was enthusing +++ about the man. Said that after researching him, HC is his all time favourite manager and in his opinion probably all time greatest manager 1) for what he achieved at Huddersfield and Arsenal – 2 consecutive championships at each; 2) the legacy he left at each after leaving/dying – further championship at each and a squad that remained at the top for a decade; 3) innovations to the game and 4) building the world’s first superclub. Was a very interesting evening and he seems a really nice fella.
“guess the Boss did not want to spend 92.5 Million on 2 players, especially one who was in the middle of a 10 game ban” Peter #169
The one we needed was the striker, Peter, and I’d have been happy for AW to have offered £60mil+ if that’s what it would took to secure Suarez.
There never was much missing in our MF, except perhaps a Ray Parlour or George Armstrong, no nonsense club men prepared to die for the cause. What we didn’t need was a marquee player with no bottle.
Better still another Paddy Vieira to lead by example. Yes, a real captain would certainly help our rudderless ship right now.
Öskar
Oskar. Not rudderless. Check out Per or Flams.
Get well soon, Holic.
Very busy day – just had a back drink and noticed your laid-upness. 😉
Bath,
Have the club seen the weather forecast for Wednesday evening ? Heavy rain and very high winds for all those encouraged to walk from far flung London termini.
Interesting on Paddy Barclay. I heard him enthusing about Herbert Chapman on radio a few days ago – sounds like a very interesting book.
Well am back from self-imposed media ban. No espn,foxsoccer,goal,or skysports for me. Boy, did not see that coming. Oh well what can I say, hope they respond by Wednesday. Most likely we will probably be 4pts behind Chelsea. Common guys, it can’t get any worse than Saturday? Can it???? COYG
OtD @215 and various above (and in prior drinks):
So you’ve been in a fairly rich vein of form as of late. The boys have given you a great deal of material with which to generate your honest, objective, and realistic, if not contrarian, observations.
We get that you don’t rate Ozil.
We get that you’d rather have Suarez (at whatever price)…or Benzema…or Toure…or Mata…or Coleman…or whoever.
We get that you think our transfer policy is, has been, and is likely to remain rubbish.
We get that you believe the team has no bottle…that we are bereft of leadership on the pitch or on the touchline.
We get that you believe Arsenal have flattered to deceive this entire season to this point.
We get it.
Now can we move on?
It’s all becoming a bit tiresome. I mean, there is this small matter of righting the ship against the Dutch Skunk and his ragged band of contemptibles on Wednesday. Last I checked there are 39 points and two cups left for us to play for.
How ’bouts we look forward? Here’s a drink to that endeavor.
Win the next match.
BMBD
Oh, and do get to feeling better, ‘Hols.
BMBD
To the salud of el maestro. Drink up, ‘holic. 🙂
Ah, iLonestar, but I DO rate Özil. He is a very fine footballer with all the skills you could ask for in a midfielder. Except he has no bottle for a fight, rarely shifts out of cruise control, and believes it’s beyond his dignity to try and get the ball back when he loses it. Generally, though, his value to the side exceeds these shortcomings. My main problem with him is that WE DIDN’T NEED HIM. Whereas we DID need a striker of equivalent calibre, hopefully with a more never-say-die character.
Yes, I’d rather have had Suarez because he would have answered our major need pre-season. I thought it was obvious £40,000,001 wouldn’t be enough for him and hoped AW would pay what he was worth. Not that I expected him to in light of his (AW’s) history. Then he absolutely flummoxed me by signing Özil! Why? He’s a luxury we didn’t need. It would have been wiser, imo, to keep the Özil money in the bank ready for the next great striker who became available.
Mata and Coleman YES, Benzema and Toure (Kolo?) NO.
Our transfer history has not been rubbish, just disappointingly weak and insubstantial.
I said ÖZIL has no bottle (pretty much what his previous managers and others have said in the past). The rest of the team are less of a worry, and some have plenty of heart – Flam, Sir Chez, Bacs, Per, Kos, OG, Nacho for example.
Yes, I believe we need a strong leader on the park, stronger than we have currently, but I don’t see anyone in the squad.
Yes I believe we have flattered to deceive on occasions.
But, yes, let’s move on. I hope we DO win our next match, but when it comes to Manure we’ve had something of an inferiority complex in recent years and before Anfield I was only hoping for a draw frankly. But apart from history there’s no reason why we couldn’t thrash them. Here’s hoping!
Öskar
A brandy for the Barkeep on me ….
I don’t understand why so many people on here think United is going to come to town and beat us. Has anybody even watched a United match in the last 2 months. I could pick 10 of my favorite Holics with a flu ridden Guvnor leading the line and get a point against that team … At Old Toilet. Relax Holics, I’m quite certain we are going to turnover United quite comfortably. This ain’t Red Noses United anymore.
Otd: I think if AW could find another Vieira he would sign him in a heartbeat, even if he had to pay more than the £4.4 million the original cost.
£42.4mil would be okay with me, Ned. 😉
Öskar
Rumours are that Fulham-Liverpool will be called off, but our game will not.
So a game at a stadium that takes just over 20.000 and is miles away from the nearest tube anyway can not be played but the one at a stadium three times as big and where the crowds consequently are heavily dependent on tubes running must go ahead.
Now, remind me again which one was scheduled for live broadcast on UK television…
Good morning everyone. I am back. Have you missed me? I admit that I haven’t missed you as much as I expected.
I have only knurd as far as midnight. The only surprise there was the news that the Guvnor is not well. I’m sorry to hear that.
Get well soon Goonerholic.
COYG
For crying out loud, it’s only 1 really bad game.
We heard the floggings repeatedly over the last couple of days. No need to regurgitate till eternity. It’s tiresome to some, you know.
The last I look at the table, we are still second and only 1 point off the top. What’s the panic?
As iLonestar said, just win the next game.
Victory through harmony.
Lars,
We benefit from having the overground service and also the trains etc.
I think those other guys are slightly more restricted. Mainly tubes over there.
The club are asking fans to walk from Euston, Kings Cross or Liverpool Street through gales and rain. And they put the season tickets up 3% and serve expensive shit food and watery beer.
Is the game really now all about television? Are we the studio audience soon to be asked to respond to cue cards?
The bid for Suarez will ever be rankling, my take on it is simple, the 1 pound extra was the minimum amount needed as per the clause to inform the player of the interest shown by a club for him, we did it and hence the amount was absolutely right. This in no way was the “bid”amount, it was the minimum amount needed to tell the player that we are interested and pool are supposed to inform him the same.
So people blaming us for that is plain ridiculous, one last time it was not the bid amount, it was the amount to start the talk.
In terms of Ozil, the question is when any team gets an offer for him will they say no except if you are united? offer ozil to barca and they will say yes, to psg yes, to bayern as well yes, he is that kind of a player, we in normal circumstances would have never been able to get him in a bidding war, we got him and that is a moment of luck and timing.
His contributions though havent been up to the mark, some are his own doing because he dwells upon things too long on the pitch, others are because players cant think at his level, i mean no dis respect to the others but players like Ozil get the game far more easily than others.
Ozil is a jewel in the team, yet he needs to man up and play tough as well, i hope to see it tomorrow, the same way i hope and pray our team does as well, lose to them and lets all cry and kiss the league good bye.
Tube strike off, apparently.
That’s very good news Lars.
Errrr, maybe
TUBE STRIKE
11:37: Following the talks at the conciliation service Acas to avert a 48-hour Tube strike, an Acas spokesman said: “Talks have adjourned at Acas this morning.
“London Underground will be writing to the trade unions with some proposals to end this dispute. We are hopeful of a positive response so that the proposed industrial action will be withdrawn.”
Confirmed..
TUBE STRIKE
11:42: Tom Edwards Transport correspondent, London The TSSA union has confirmed it is suspending its 48-hour strike on London Underground.
The RMT executive will meet this afternoon to discuss the new offer.
Time for a celebration;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vcJibyBRAM#t=41
That was a hell of a celebration H2H. Too the site down for almost an hour!
Police raid?
Dr F’s stash ok?
Heh @ the link.
Red card for nutting the dugout. Epic.
I’d have been happy for AW to have offered £60mil+ if that’s what it would took to secure Suarez.
That sir, is pure fantasy.
60mill on one player? How do you see that happening?
And I assume that you’re just talking about the transfer fee.
Like it or not, we aren’t a club working on that level, there are actually only a handfull that do.
Suarez is indeed a good player, in the form of his life. But when we made the bid, which I thought at the time to be a massive risk, there was absolutly no guarantee that he would come back as strong as he did. It was just as possible that after his ban he’d come back, get peeved and go on a defender feeding frenzy, getting massive chunks of shirt and meaty back bits stuck between his chompers.
The club made the bid in the belief that it triggered a clause, this has been explained a billion times.
Bath @237.
It’s happened a lot lately.
Someone playing silly buggers is what I believe due to a post from the guv’.
Otg@225 How nice it must be to have so much money and just throw it around willy-nilly.
What H2H said @ 239.
Some people’s understanding of how the transfer market works seems to have been gleaned from Shoot!
Heh at defender feeding frenzy.
Shoot? Ah, those were the days…..all was so simple.
Those cardboard league-ladders were a right pain in the arse though….
Yes please. 😉
The Shoot annual, a stoking filler for many a young lad back in the day.
I just did a quick google and saw that it was still available, wow.
My most treasured annual was the Topical Times Football Album from about 1962. Great glossy pictures of Bobby Evans, Gerry Hitchins, George Eastham, Johnny Haynes etc. great articles about ‘Molineux – stadium of the century. Sic transit gloria mundi….
***Buildup of positive energy and ejection of hurricane-like winds into adjacent air pockets.***
The big question is…….
Will it be a two or three glass of Auntie Beechams preview tonight? 😉
Draws upon ancient Tibetan healing/restorative powers to aid in the preview writing process before shunting them aside to suggest another Guinness.
In case this flew under your radar;
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26084748
Good for Casey Stoney and Good for Arsenal.
Modern football economics:
Sebastian Squillaci signed for Arsenal, £4m.
60k/Week, costing over £15m in total.
After 23 games he left on a Free.
We were crying out for experienced defensive cover – this is what our 4th choice centre back cost the club.
Wenger signed him – “what a waste of money” If Wenger didn’t sign him – “spend some fucking money”
Makes you think…..
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[…] In itself the defeat is not season-ending, despite what you will read in some places. There is an understandable reaction to a heavy defeat in the first of a series of games that could shape our season. We have to hope it is a blip and not the start of a trend. – Goonerholic […]