And Leicester
Aug 30th, 2014 by 'holic
I have waited until the final whistle has blown at Goodison before considering the preview of our trip to Leicester, hereinafter to be compulsorily referred to as And Leicester, in honour of the song we amended in the early seventies. Quite why things got so lively at And Leicester, both when we played there and when venturing further north through the station, I’m not entirely sure. Fibert Street was a proper old school ground and I have to confess not having been to the Walkers/King Power stadium.
Indeed Arsenal and And Leicester have shared some famous faces, particularly from our European Fairs-Cup winning and first double squad. Frank McLintock, George Armstrong, Eddie Kelly, and Jon Sammels all starred for both clubs. Back to today, however.
Chelsea and Swansea have maintained their one hundred percent start to the season by winning their third fixtures today, thus making it desirable that we get something, and preferably three points, on Sunday. Please note the word desirable. It isn’t critical, crucial, or must-win in August. Having said that keeping on the leaders shirt-tails would make life easier in the months to come, and even with the injuries we have suffered thus far we should have too much on paper for the newly promoted charges of Nigel Pearson.
And Leicester opened the season by coming from behind twice to hold Everton, but in their second home fixture last Tuesday they were humbled by League Two Shrewsbury, scorers of the only goal of the game. That performance paled into insignificance given Manchester United’s humbling at MK Dons and Pearson will have worked hard at rebuilding his squad’s belief in the ensuing days. In between those two performances the Foxes gave a reasonable account of themselves at Stamford Bridge before falling to a 2-0 defeat.
Forget And Leicester, what of the Arsenal side to take them on, bereft of the injured Kieran Gibbs, Mikel Arteta, Theo Walcott, Yaya Sanogo, and Olivier Giroud, but buoyed by the return of Aaron Ramsey, suspended for the Champions League qualifier against Besiktas. Quite who makes way for Rambo is far from clear. Jack Wilshere’s return to form in the 1-0 midweek triumph may have saved him, but can Mathieu Flamini be sacrificed to facilitate a Rambo/Wilshere axis?
The other alternatives could see either Santi Cazorla or Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain making way and the pack being shuffled. Whichever of the options transpire I will join the clamour for the return of Mesut Ozil into the playmaker role behind Alexis Sanchez, please boss.
Reasonably convinced though I am that we will bring the three points home from And Leicester, I am being cautious with the ‘holic pound. The 8/1 available for a 1-2 away win looks particularly attractive. I’m on it.
So all that remains is for me to wish those going a cracking day. Show Leicester what magnificent away support they have missed since we were last there in the Invincibles season. For the rest I also wish you a cracking day, and a perfect picture on your broadcast or stream.
Have a good one, ‘holics.
294 Responses to “And Leicester”
1st yea, about time COYG!!!!!!
A win tomorrow would be very nice.
The Fox and the Hound.
Holic, I thought Sanogo would be in the squad as he was about to come on on Wednesday evening but the whistle blew before he got on. This probably saved him a booking!
I think 2-1 is about spot on although we might keep a clean sheet with Kos and BFG together .it will be nice go focus on football and not transfers.
Was the song changed to ‘ And Leicester’ because of all the replays we had there with Sheffield Wednesday in 1979 or does my memory fail me?
5th now to read the post!
Who’ll get the hat trick this time?! : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAwNDhCNiU0
🙂
It is critical and crucial that we play to the best of our ability for …a most desirable win. That would certainly keep our momentum going!
😀
Number 7 – TR for a cracker
Nice preview maestro. 0-2 to the good guys.
Evening bath, a pleasure, as ever. Ttg, you may be right, but I’m sure we were singing it earlier than that. Sadly I doubt the definitive evidence exists, unless in a BBC vault somewhere….
😉
Nice one Holic 🙂
11 players in the team?
Good preview Guv. Shame on you though, it’s 0-2 to my mind as Mertescielney continue from where they left off on Wednesday night.
COYG
Wasn’t there a multiple-replay tie against Leicester City? Or was it the League Cup semi-final against Liverpool in the early 80s with a game or two at Filbert Street?
Anyway, ‘H, you say it was changed to, presumably, “over land and sea; and Leicester” – what was it before?
BB. That 3rd Bergkamp goal was more clever than a trained seal. 🙂
Pangloss
We played Wednesday five times and I believe all of the three neutral replays were at Leicester. That was in 1979 when we won the cup. The following year we played Liverpool four times in the cup semi- final but I don’t think any games were at Leicester . The game where we qualified for the Final was at Highfield Road.
I think Holics is right that we seem to have been singing this for ever. Possibly Clive or NBN or Uply might know the origin.
And Leicester will be tough but we have endured and come through tough matches ourselves against Everton and Besiktas. We dug in and showed some resolve and mentally we are in a good place, memories of two trophies still fresh and having ‘got through’ a tough start to the season. We shouldn’t forget the palace game either. You’d expect Sanchez to continue again up front. Wilshere played so well I wouldn’t expect him to be dropped and as noted in my tweets (@arsenalland) I think this 4-1-4-1 is about being stable early on and finding room for both Ramsey and Wilshere whilst relying on neither for the DM role sitting behind. That means it should be either Cazorla or Ozil for wide left.
There’s pressure to play Ozil, the £42.5m, and when we get him fully integrated he should be the man. Cazorla can come in and out and change position more readily without the spotlight.
It will be interesting to see how long we persist with 4-1-4-1, goals wee an issue last season and difficult to see how this formation offers enough threat and accommodate our wide forwards. Could Carvalho be the ingredient to playing a more expressive system? Putting the legs and power of that kind of player may the catalyst to a more balanced looking system, right now it feels like a compromise.
I do like Wilshere and Ramsey in front a DM and Ozil as 10 but dictates a diamond style formation. I don’t think 4-1-4-1 wins the league. Not enough goal threat and too easy to mark out one style of forward especially isolated.
Well written ‘Holic.
Gervinho just opened this seasons goal scoring account for Roma against Fiorentina. What a player he was going to be for us. Shame most of the fans didn’t/don’t rate him at all and didn’t had required patience. Showing his true quality under Rudi Garcia who coached him at Lille too.
Cheers ‘H.
I reckon playing Özil out wide is geared towards;
A. Slowly putting back into his sub-concious the need to do defensive work, because the role requires him to track back, make tackles and do other defensive works, so that even when he gets back into the middle he will be more eager to go after the ball when we don’t have it.
B. Giving Jack the game time he needs in the middle of the park to further his development.
C. Preparing Özil for the games where we would need to be more solid in the middle and therefore have to play Jack, Aaron and Arteta in the center and move him to the wings. C is obviously dependent on A not producing the desired results.
D. Arsene obviously likes to play with an inverted winger on one side of the front trio, I think he might be preparing Özil to take over that role when Santi departs.
I could be wrong on all counts and it transpires that Arsene has other ideas, I’m sure no one would be surprised 😉 .
Great points on Ozil by Cent (Comment 18). He can do a Piees job from there. Pires wasn’t quick, but he had guile and drifted with quick feet. He was a playmaker wide. If that’s a long term plan Wenger should give him a DVD of Pires.
Nice preview, ‘Holic.
However, I think a win is mandatory to continue whatever momentum we have managed to create this early season. What is most desirable though is a continued improvement on the fluidity of our attacking and counter attacking play.
And, I seem to recall an old regular in this bar in the name and style of “And Lester”. Used to enjoy his drinks.
@ 14 bt8b
Oh i don’t know, seals can be pretty clever too : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmMOlf4PgHQ
(But Oh! What a Goal That Was! )
😀
It’s not the fans that didn’t rate Gervihno, Lurky, it was AW and rightly so.
He was not fast enough (brain fast) for premier league, that’s all.
Otherwise pretty good footballer.
I am informed we are trying to sabotage Chavski’s move for Remy.
How ironic if given how Mourinho messed us about on deadline day with Ba we got our revenge!
Remy’s prospects at Chelsea would not be as good as ours over the next four months so least. If he wants to play Champions League he has much more chance with us.
A word of warning to anyone intending to watch MoTD – don’t forget to apply spermicidal gel liberally.
COYG
Frank @20, your memory is correct, And Lester is indeed the alias of an old regular on here. Talking of which I have to say I miss so many of the old regulars who no longer post frequently or no longer post at all these days, most notable among them would be the aforementioned And Lester, Ollie, Tabs, the Sweeper, GoonerTerry…the list is quite long.
howdy ‘hol
howdy all
well i hope?
how the hoor are ye all?
🙂
Yup, you are right Cent, and don’t forget Snir, snowy, Catalan, True Storey etc.
Looks like Remy goes to Chelsea after all. No matter that we activated that clause as many reports are saying.
And to be fair and honest if I am him I would do the same. Arsenal, publicly and arrogantly rejected the option to buy him early in the summer, leaving him for Liverpool.
Then comes Giroud injury and we started flirting with couple of big name strikers who probably rejected us. He was considered as a reserve option. Considering that he is an Arsenal fan, I guess we believed that we need to snap fingers and he will come running like a dog
But then Chelsea activated his clause, and it becomes clear that we may lose even him from the always pragmatic Maureen.
So, where does this leaves us?
In a middle of a poker game with a pair of twos.
Agreed, Lurky, I knew I would mistakenly omit some people.
Everything good here, cba, hope it’s same or even better for you and yours.
So we wait all these time to activate his clause, unbelievable. We knew Giroud was injured, why didn’t we just get him all this time. Have to say that our transfer dealings lately has not been good enough. Chelsea knew what they wanted and didn’t waste no time. Not good enough, now what?
I had no idea And Leicester was a musical reference, I thought it was referring to the former drinker in this bar discussed above.
Anyway I promised myself I wouldn’t get my knickers in a twist over the Remy transfer, as if I did I’d be offering myself as a human sacrifice on the altar of Transfer Madness.
We’ll get who we get.
(If anyone)
Lucky, I guess we will wait on a returning Theo, who still will need another few weeks to get in playing shape. In the meantime run Alexi down the ground. We are in four competitions, we need all the depth we can get. Sometimes I just feel that Wenger is too stubborn for his own good. Oh well let’s get the 3 points tommorrow.
The talk about old timers that don’t frequent as much nowadays made me think about how many drinks I must have written here. Tried to do a search for it on my name and found this:
http://goonerholic.com/2010/04/shocking-absolutely-shocking-arthurthegooner/
As a side note, that post was written during the eruption of Eyjafjallajökull so it is kind of fitting finding it now just a few days after Bárðarbunga squeezed out a little magma.
God, that game.
I especially love sentences like “Fabianski must never play for our club again.” He really did go on to claim that FA-cup in the end. That day I didn’t think he ever would. Ah, us poor supporters during those horrible games.
Oh, and apparently it wasn’t just Iceland that was fuming that day. Apparently I was as well.
Memories.
AH, right. I was supposed to say something regarding the original subject. I believe many of the old timers will be back. I’ve had my breaks but I tend to come back.
all grand Cent fella
thanks fer askin
can’t complain
well
i could but idleness prevails
😉
ttg: re “and Leicester.” I am not sure there is a definitive answer. I think it started at Chelsea during the hooligan era of the ’70s. Chelsea’s Headhunters and Leicester’s Baby Squad had a couple of particularly nasty Boxing Day confrontations, and the song seems to have started around then, possibly in response to a Baby Squad taunt, “Hark now hear the Leicester sing, Chelsea ran away” sung to the the carol “Hark the Herald Angels Sing”. There is a rival theory that “And Leicester” came from a sign on the M1 that said “The North and Leicester” as “And Leicester” seems to be sung only by London teams. Charlton did it, too, as well as us. Gooners may have glommed onto the ’79 Cup replays at Filbert Street after the event to give it a purer Arsenal heritage, but I am pretty sure (well, have a hunch) that it was sung earlier than that. However, I will bow to my seniors in the bar whose memories are longer than mine.
really wonder what might have been…after reading this and much reflection i’m lost for words…maybe a better man with proper words can break it down for the rest of us…
really wonder what might have been…after reading this and much reflection i’m lost for words…maybe a better man with proper words can break it down for the rest of us…http://m.sportskeeda.com/football/open-letter-robin-van-persie-arsenal-fan
history is written
by
the victory Vs
or
is it the fisherman’s friends
bottom line is medicinal confectionary
NBN
Thanks for that. I seem to recall, as did Holic that it was sung from early in the seventies and your ideas seem to confirm this. Most chants are adapted by each club and the origins of this may lie in a fairly murky past.
In that case HOLIC YOU are not getting with it a pint of Wisniowka form 8ball!!!
As one who believes Özilla is potentially the most talented player in the club (but still waiting to see a lot more of that potential released) I don’t believe we’ll see the best of him (the God in him, Trev) till he plays the No10 role regularly. Playing him on the left, expecting him to become a defender, is a waste of time and talent. Get him up behind the striker, whoever that might be, and we could also see more goals from him.
This one looks relatively easy for us, even in their own foxhole, and we should rest Santi and Ox and possibly Kos. Bring in Chambers and TR7 or Poldi or Campbell or whoever and give them some premiership time before they fall asleep on the bench.
Öskar
top writing maestro!
and Oscar!
Cesc in that nasty colour still hurts! What a CUNT!
I have always wondered why we don’t have a proper left wenger(like Theo on the right) for many years. If we have a Theo type left winger(like Hazard), our
attack is lethal.
Can j Campbell play left winger?
Re “And Leicester”,
My recollection ( which could easily be wrong ) is that the early 70’s version featured “And Tottnum” , changing later for a reason that I cannot pretend to know.
UTA
Re: Cent & Lurky.
In addition to those you already mentioned, the honor roll of ‘holics who haven’t been around recently but ARE expected to return also includes:
Pires is King
Norcal
Dapper Dan C
Many others I can’t think of at the moment.
Agree that Joel Campbell can play on the left and completely dumbfounded why he is not.
Oskar , god comments re ozil, of course trying to get him to track back is the same pointless exercise as was trying to teach denilson to pass the ball forward.
Also, seems we are relying a hell of a lot on theo being our one and only up front wide messiah. I hope many on here are not too disapointed and we may be waiting a while yet anyways.
It is a waste that Ozil play the left winger.
His best position is the number ten behind the striker.
The and leicester……..in 1974 ish we took three games to beat leicester in the FA cup. Both replays at Filbert street.
I stood on the old North Bank from about 1972,and only remember the at Leicester add on from around the time of the aforementioned FA cup games,but my memory is not as it was.
I again dont think the at Leicester was in reference to any hooligan THING,again i dont recall any bovver Home or Away until 73 or 74 ish.
The Ozil thing is the latest media Monkey to be laid before us,the Nine year won nothing monkey has been slain now,its bash Ozil,if (the prince)he played for any of the other top 4 clubs the media would e fawning all over him,because he plays for The Arsenal they rubbish him.
Didnt he make the killer pass for Alexis in midweek for the £35 million goal?or shall we gloss over that.
I steer clear of media Arsenal reports and most blogs, all of which appear to enjoy having a pop at The Arsenal.
Best of luck Gooners,respect to those that SUPPORT and dont whinge..For those that do please go support some other no class team,the list is endless.
Thanks Tindlegooner I had forgotten that series I think we lost the toss for the third game. If I remember ( having forgotten!) Big Raddy saw us through eventually. We seemed to play Leicester regularly in the FA Cup regularly then and usually prevailed . Let’s hope we can prevail today.
Nice to see you on here and thanks again.
Surely this is the type of game where arsene should be able to trust his squad and allow a mix of newbies play with some experienced heads and squeeeze a win.
Hope to see zelalem,rosiscky and campbell get a solid hit out.
@Aussie
One would think so, but I’m in the “must win” camp, as it helps maintain and build momentum. Play the best 11 first and then should we be comfortable by half time then I certainly would like to see Campbell get a run out and Alexis and Cazorla a rest. Throw Poldi on the left and move Ozil to the centre. 😀
Somehow I think Rosicky is being saved for something special.. maybe the chavs or pool.
Am so looking forward to this match.
😀
morning, all.
I don’t think playing Ozil on the left is aimed at teaching him to defend per se, I just think it’s more about getting him to do more in defence when we dont have the ball, pressing from the front and all that. I also think his best position is in the middle.
BB – if he is being saved for big games, he needs to build match sharpness up by playing other games too. I am bit worried by lack of TR awesomeness this season so far.
I think TR7 will be used primarily to provide experience in our domestic cup starting eleven for the rest ilof his career with us, Arsene is always looking towards the future and I’m sure we all agree TR7 won’t be around for much longer.
@ Eandy
Good point, hence either he’s not quite up there in the fitness level or we haven’t found an opportune time to play him. Hopefully, today is that day!
😀
Morning all.
Thanks, H. Great preview.
It seems the Remy ‘move’ has been a smoke screen. AW only made ‘enquiries’ about the striker. Anyway, we have only a day to bear utter inanities.
Have a great day and enjoy the game wherever you are.
COYG
Cheers, Holic.
Have sung the song many times and thought the Leicester bit just filled an empty bit in the tune – interesting to hear the other explanations.
All the best to ‘And Lester’ if he’s looking in – haven’t seen him in ages – real or virtual person.
We hate Nottingham Forest,
We hate Liverpool too,
And Leicester..
We hate West Ham United
But Arsenal we love you…
All together now !
………..
Ornstein’s word is not cannon but quite close it is. He just ‘twatted’ that Arsenal have withdrawn their interest in Remy and are not closer to any new faces. The plot thickens!
I was always under the impression that it came from a friend’s boyfriend who was part of the North Bank choir in the early 70’s and that the others were taking the proverbial out of him – ‘we hate … and Lester’! At least that’s what she told me at the time!
SG, just read Ornstein’s tweet(s) and I agree that he is very reliable. However, I think that he doesn’t know shyt at the moment. The same goes for other journalists out there.
My guess is that we are after two more players at least and that Arsene is playing with the cards on his chest. I got a feeling that no info will come out of Arsenal camp until the transfers are done.
At least this is what I choose to believe. I just can’t believe that we are not going to sign a defender and a defensive midfielder and go into the season on four fronts with just two senior CB’s and slow and ageing DM.
Very nice preview ‘holic, nice that such a quality post was my reward for finally catching up to the current drinks. Don’t know how long this will last, from tomorrow the holiday period is basically over, but I might as well make the most of these easy days while they are around 🙂
The ‘And Leicester’ title made sense the 2nd time I saw it, especially as I heard it & sung it fairly recently in terms of matchdays (maybe at Palace on the opening Saturday of the PL, I think the atmosphere was too tense for that particular ditty to have come out on Wednesday, I actually got a headache towards the end of the game… or maybe in one of the Tollie beer gardens 😛 ) but I have to admit that like frank @ 20, my 1st thought was of ‘And Lester’. It’s been more than a while since I saw him in this bar or at the Tollie, that’s for sure 🙁
Cent @ 18, good stuff on Özil out right. A, B,C and D could be legitimate, they could also be complete conjecture, as with many things, only Arsène knows.
Eandy, don’t sweat it, TR7 will surely be back sooner than later, with his fleetness of foot and effortless cool 😉
Cheers, Wind, all the best for the next semester.
Cheers Cent!
Lurky, it’s indeed unfathomable that Arsenal will not add at least two players to the squad this window. AW is master of the transfer ‘Dark Arts’ so all transfer information and its dissemination would be compartmentalised.
Time to take a step back and watch events unfold while believing in Arsene knowing to do the right thing.
COYG
Interesting to read posters missing the presence of other “used to be regular posters”. Pining the good ol’ days.
After last week’s posts on here with a couple of “regulars” & Steve T. It just blew me away at the sheer rudeness of the regulars towards Steve T.
Pity, as Steve T was an actual “season ticket” holder who attended games at the Grove and supported the Club literally.
How dare Steve T have an opinion? Then be so crassly criticized for it by so called regulars?
I still haven’t seen an apology given to Steve T. Hence, the most balanced of posts from a “real” fan Steve T are sorely missed.
This place is already different without him.
Tough game today. I hope we win.
Hopefully we also get some business done before deadline day tomorrow.
Pointer sisters – Jump
That is all…
I believe I have let myself run wild last night apologies for the words chosen I was pretty much a cunt myself! 🙂
Anyway cant wait for the kick off now!
Come on ARSENAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bB@55- equally fine to have poldi back on the left.
Just about forgotten about him.
What about diaby, is he still out completely or training or what?
As Holic said, Please AW give ozil11 his job back in the middle.
The good news seems to be we have a few best sides.
Good signs when you can paint rest santi and jack and flam and have a top squad….
C’mon you reds ….
Just watching the sat match highlights and I am still stunned why the modern goal keepers will not or choose not too, under any circumstances, simply cath the ball?
The favoured preference seems to be this piss weak punch, palm or slap away that only usually results in a tap in for the opposition.
Just can’t see the sense ?
Aussie
They seem to take the easy route just get rid of it! It’s probably due to risk in the box pushing and shoving. In EPL keepers need to be on high alert all the time they will not get protection they from the ref as in other leagues.
Seems they could do with some cricket training and learn the lost art of ” soft hands”
FFS they wear gloves these days like they are going to the arctic.
Surely the ball would stick in there like glue !
Hate to disappoint you Vinny, but SteveT and I were exchanging friendly texts 20 minutes after the so-called ‘carnage’. Steve and I have always ‘gone at it’ both on here and in person, no quarter asked, no quarter given, always with a fair wallop of mutual pisstake, but never without respect or indeed affection.
To see it characterised as otherwise is … and I’ll choose my word carefully … unfortunate.
Take that you spuds!
Pool looking dangerous…. think they’ll be in the run for top 4!
Draw would be best result, with both their strikers out for as long as Giroud is.. just to even the odds!
😀
howdy tabs
i wouldn’t ask ye fer a quarter either
a half o’ john J and an Arthur
iffin yer in the chair
would be lovely though
thanks for offerin’
aww jaysus a double
you really shouldn’t
aw come on
who got me this shepherd’s pie ?
tabs – yer a diamond
but
enough already!
cheers fella
have a goodun
and
COME ON YOU RIP ROARIN’!!!
*checks bar menu for rhubarb crumble*
😉
cba, howdy and 🙂 🙂
Always plenty of rhubarb available from me 😉
rhubarb maybe tabs
not forced rhubarb though
have a good sunday fella
same to ‘holic and ‘holics all
can’t watch game in the bar
donegal playing dublin
i’d be burned at the stake
suggestin we watch “soccer”
hillbillys 😉
Haha, you too Sir, Gaelic Football notwithstanding.
UTA!
Szczesny, Debuchy, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Monreal, Flamini, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ozil, Alexis, Sanogo
Wow, didn’t expect both Jack, Chambers and Ox on the bench.
Chambers is the only defender on the bench today.
Silent Stan is shown getting off the team bus at Leicester.
Does that indicate a big money signing is in the works?
Bayonne Jean. If we do make a big money signing at this stage and Stan is seen to be a factor, wouldn’t there be a chance of his being called BIG Stan? Puno would think so I am willing to wager. 🙂
COYG!! But not Leicester.
No rest for Alexis?! 🙁
COME
ON
ARSENAL
Stan on the bench??
Vinny,
As a regular I take exception to that.
I deliberately kept out of the argument completely and was not rude to anyone.
Steve T is a great bloke and an honest, completely committed Gooner, who says what he believes.
So is Tabs.
I know them both. There will be no personal rudeness involved.
Heh, cba ! 😉
Here’s to the first away win this season.
Come on you gooners!
Afternoon All
Is Sanogoo going to get us a goal? Not thrilled with our line-up,surprised Jack is left out, hope I’m wrong.
Filbert Street was where I first saw Arsenal, back in 58, it’s probably a supermarket these days !
COYRs
HNBD,
Come on you Reds!
Come on!
Up The Arse!
😀
Okay then, Yellows…
Come on!
Good to see Jack W rested.
Probably off camera, he was waving in despair at the end of Weds game – just couldn’t find the energy to run back one more time.
Arsène alluded to the same in the pre-match interview Trev, 5 consecutive games. Rest definitely needed.
Rolls it across the box…
Kos down injured, not looking good.
Bamm
Aaaah tabsed it….
But I had to shoot from really far away. 😉
Stuck working. Clients crisis – working virtually nonstop the last 4 days.
Need a feed to watch in the background. Eandy … HELP!
http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=269497&part=sports
No PL coverage in the sportsbar today.
Wifi a bit too dodgy to stream too.
Don’t worry we got backup defenders on the pitch. Nothing to worry about.
Kos is back!
A true Poacher!
Come on!!!!!
ALEXIS!
Get in. Alexis.
Sanogo assist
ALEXIS!
Great to see Alexis score again, but –
The more I see of Sanogo the more I believe I might one day play for the Arsenal myself. 😉
#onlyhalfjoking
A proper assist it was as well. Second time the ball bounced he did not try to score. He really did try to move the ball towards another player.
Alexis running around and chasing the ball down like he was rested all week… is the chap really that fit???!
😀
oh fuck no
Jesus come on lads
What a cross. Guess we just have to start over now.
Good goal Leicester.
Kos needs to come off for his own health.
..and here we go again.. Come on!!!
Watch Mertesacker form the goal. Fycking unbelievable. Are you on training Per?
That was too easy
Keeper’s fault again!!! Caught up in no men’s land again
Wojciech came out too right
Ospina need to come back from injury and start pushing him to do better.
Come on lads!!!
Kos should have stayed off.. he looks off..
🙁
So are we to blame Per or Szcz? Come on! Of course that wasn’t the best defending I’ve seen from us, but teams let it goals, that was perhaps the quickest counter we’ve faced this season and they got the passes right down to the tee. I have no problem letting in a goal like that at times. It happens.
and now substituted, good for him to prevent further damage.
Kos is off. Great.
Ramsey with a misplaced pass number 4. In 25 minutes
I would put the blame on Sanogo, the whole team moved up to press and he just stood there doing nothing for awhile, defender found the easy pass because he had time.
What?… was Per playing striker there?!?!
😀
Per Mertestriker
Sanogo is .. a tad slow?!
kurwa Woj, be more decisive!
Yellow card that Ullua cunt!
COme On!
Let’s get another before half time!
Come on lads pick it up
How long does it take to decide advantage ?
Cazorla you can do better than that
Campbell should come on sometime…
shitebuckets
her puters fucked
can’t see it
radio 5 bloody live now
robbie fuckin savage !!!
thick lump of a haircut
jeezirlou
stress on stress
doin my nut not seeing
balls
Toby @126. Spot on.
And agree you are right to point out Sanogo’s part in the goal. I thought that was his best half for us- certainly a platform at this level to progress from…
Really enjoyed watching Leicester. Their attitude and endeavour coupled with a refusal to be bullied or intimidated and mixed with a few moments of genuine quality have given us a tough time so far and made for a really enjoyable game.
Here’s to a couple more for Alexis…
cba – loads of stream choices on wiziwig.tv
Jesus this is rather scary
Come on Arsenal!
Apart from their goal, it’s a game worth watching. End to end stuff, we need to be very alert at the back ,fear we might get caught on the counter, they’ve plenty of pace in their side.
Sanogo hasn’t done so badly.
COYRs
scruz
her computer has shut down
only have radio
and my trusty wee phone
with not enough data for streams
Twitter went mad about Sanogo being poor. Really don’t understand, are people watching football or critique by default.
Not that Sanogo was best player on the pitch, but wasn’t worse either.
Ozil was invisible in the first half. Ramsey made more misplaced passes than good ones. Per was awful in defence and so on.
Alexis was the best player by far this half.
Here comes the second half. Come on we are better than this.
meant cognac
Get some glasses linesman.. Sanogo onside!
Come on Sanogo, give us a goal!
aww fuck this
That was too close
are we going to compete effectively with this kind of defending??
Twitter: The scourge of modern existence.
Its the current day equivalent of the peanut gallery, or maybe a lynch mob. Loudest, most obnoxious statements get attetion.
Sense not welcome there – volume and drama only.
Exhibit A is that numpty piers morgan..
Sanogo was frrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeee Ramsey…!
Pick, it …up!
We play with 10 man. OzIl needs to come off.
Now, score and make me eat my words.
We could have got quite a few… Sanogo needs a little luck.. or be a little quicker!
😀
Cmon boys get a winner
Watch Per the Tanker again. Huh
Ox time, methinks.
You could be right Trev.
Need some power, Delia.
70th min.. time for a change… get some fresh legs!
Ox and TR for me
I’d get Cazorla off for Ox. Don’t know why. Just a feeling.
Late in game and needing goal.
Sanogo on the pitch and Podolski on bench still.
Yep, makes total sense.
Well I’m apparently going to make myself unpopular, Homer, but I think Sanogo has been utterly ineffective.
If he is the focus of our attack for the next five months we are in deep trouble.
Need some fresh legs
Watch the other players – they know it too.
Poldi and OX!
Come on now!
Rambo is still looking for his form, let’s see what the Ox and Poldi can do, 15mins to go.
Trev@ 167, what you said. WE ARE IN DEEP SHIT
So Podolski is not in Germany being sold. The German international with around 100 caps gets 14 minutes to do his stuff.
Wow !
Poldi and Ox on
So down to ten… time for spirit and character again!
Our luck !
Two subs on – Ozil off. 🙁
Oh he’s back ! 🙂
Wojcech Stretchny !
Trev – not unpopular with me!
C’mon Poldi C’mon OX!!
Three World Cup Winners on. Come on Reds / Yellows !
Lots of lovely approach play BUT no end product. Has Poldi been involved yet?
Not good enough, sorry.
Even for top four.
Tough match as expected!
We were probably tired out by the number of matches we’ve been playing.
Sanogo didn’t have the luck, is Campbell even going to get a game??!
Well at least we did not lose… 😀
What a complete fucking waste of time.
A club going through the motions here. Taking the piss top to bottom.
That was fucking shit and no one seemed to care.
Different season, same shit. Absolutely seething at that dross against a really poor side. Poorly played, poorly managed, poor result.
Yaya Sonogo looks like a competition winner out there. A total joke. Where is our ambition? Fuck it.
A lot of season to go yet San Antonio, let’s not rule it a failure yet!
Looks like the Ox has a calf injury, out of the England game? Hope it’s nothing worse. Poldi had his chance in the last seconds but not sharp enough. 2 more points dropped, alas.
Good enough for what SAG? Really, I am as frustrated as anyone, but we had 24 shots, 6 on target. 70% of the ball. We let in one beautiful counter. That happens. This would have been a 1-0 game for us against a hard working team had that not gone in. I fucking hate drawing, but I’m tired of the negativity. We’ve won all our home games, we haven’t lost an away game. We’re just a few games into a new season, and the transfer window hasn’t closed yet.
Taking a little break from this.
Ps. SAG, not saying you are not at liberty to feel or say what you feel. I have no problem with YOU as per se. I just have a problem reading it. That is why I say I’m removing myself from here now, and not asking you to leave. You are a gunner, so we’re on the same side. Just not in the mood to see that. Ds.
Trev@167
You aren’t making yourself unpopular with me. I’m deeply pessimistic about the season based on that performance. Sanogo is not an Arsenal striker. He was not alone in being disappointing . Ramsey was awful and Ozil was invisible . Sanchez did well as did our defenders but Flamini shouldn’t be near a top four team. We aren’t title contenders on that display and we probably haven’t got time to bring in much to change that. Hope I’m wrong
bad draw!! i’m not buying this sanogo-pyramid scheme-thing…we need a proper striker to cover giroud…we dint properly trouble leicester defence as we should have…with all those injuries a point makes for a very poor return!! bad draw!!
I still feel that if we can get command of the midfield comprehensively, we’ll come out all right in the striking department.
Where’s our DM? Got a day left.. 😀
Not good enough is an understatement.
We will struggle for fourth again and that’s if we bring in the least required additions. Leicester with the best striker on the field.
Also disappointing tactically.
Alexis looks ace. That’s good.
Onward and upward.
If had the time I’d comment on WTF was up with the starting line up. No Rosicky. No Ox and no Poldi until it was too late. Arsene – FFS get it together.
Now Back to business.
Cheers all.
Still unbeaten, but trully uncreative display.
Don’t like what I saw today, especially after I saw yesterday what Chelski are capable off, there is no way we are going to even come close to them this season. Some players really disappointed me today.
Anyway, lets see what tomorrow is going to bring us. We are three players short if we want to be title challengers. We had the whole summer and a summer before that to sign a DM and a striker. Now we are a defender, or even two short.
pretty triangles but no teeth.
Anyone out there still think we dont need a striker?
How Sanogo gets in the side in front of Podolski is a mystery to me.
Long way to go, but Chavski already looking uncatchable.
I sincerely hope we buy,but who knows?
I sound negative I know, but I’m not really — we are a really excellent side, but not quite good enough to win the league at this juncture I feel.
Could be worse though – we could be Spurs.
Toby, that’s my take okay. You have your view, I have mine. You can’t even say anything in this bar that’s unpopular, without someone jumping on you. Dude this is Leicester city, you can state all the stats you want to, how many of those shots troubled the keeper, give me a break. Like I said NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
of all the fuckin games not to see
was it the 5live dingdongs?
was it the Arsenal?
after going on homemade apfewein
on an empty stomach
and that nervous disaster
now is my time
for revenge on the cattle
i hope the lot of em
slide on their hoops
clatter themselves in proper dung
and
make fools of themselves
in front of bollocky bill the bull
and you trev
front and centre !
i may be wrong
but recently the cattle aren’t lowing
they’re mooing a certain poem
and sniggering
grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!
A well deserved draw. What would you expect from a performance like that? Slow, clumsy and very much pedestarian. Before the game I was hoping we can at least play half the pace of Besiktas’ game. Turned out not. What disappointed me was the fact nobody in the team has that desire to win. Just release the ball anywhwere, nevermind it’s only Leicester, I can say that we are very lucky today, no matter what the stats says. Better shape up, quickly boys…
COYG
Sonogo, whatever you think of his potential, just isn’t good enough at the moment. 22 years old and only ever scored 1 top flight goal in his career, so there’s no evidence to suggest a rapid change in that. Another punt in the dark on a youth who we could just as easily develop on loan.
The drop off from Giroud to Sonogo is huge. Not even close to being the same level. Alexis is great, but Wenger clearly not keen to go with the eight little people line-up away in the league. Either we buy some physical presence for midfield or are we stuck with this? Not sure I can handle a season of watching Sonogo stumble about whilst we slog for fourth with sixty or seventy million in the bank again. We need to get some business done in the next twenty-eight hours, it is glaring.
I was bullish coming in to this game, I really thought we would turn a decent start in to a good one. The team offered up a dud. You play like dickheads there is no reason to expect anything but criticism. Difficult from what we have shown so far to see how we close the gap on the teams that were ahead of us last season. This was demoralising. In itself it is just 2 points, but is exposed again all the failures that hurt us last season: complacency, indecision, lack of physical competition, lack of depth in the squad. Frankly 1-1 flattered us. If there is a positive it is that we can play that poorly and still get a draw, I guess.
Two weeks to chew on that and hope that we can gel as a team whilst away on international duty… I suppose at least Sonogo will have some time for extra shooting practice at a barren Colney
#DepressedPoon
196 – I hear you mate.
Homer – bang on mate, where is the squad? Rosicky, Poldi, The Panther, AOC and we are running clearly knackered players out again?
Ozil doesn’t look fit. Sanchez gives his all, but he’s already being overworked. Cazorla was superb in the week, but he has been well off pace every other game, today included.
Difficult to understand why we can’t get experienced international talents on the pitch under these circumstances.
I think convention dictates I should ‘boom’ the 200th comment. Guess I ‘Sonogoed’ it 🙁
200 – thanks. Wenger can rave all he wants to about all the strikers that can play CF, deep down he should know that he needs a striker.
Hey.. on the positive side.. Alexis scored another goal!!
Let’s all wait for the transfer window to close before we start mud slinging and hurling 😀
Come on… sign a DM!!!!
😀
The look on AW’s face at the end said it all. Utter frustration.
Too many similar players – endless passing in front of a well organised, big defence. We need the variety of a power player to beat a physical challenge and pull their defence out of shape.
We don’t have the power to run through the middle, and keep getting pushed wide from where we cannot score, or cross to nobody in the middle.
Here’s an even better idea than waiting for the window to close. Why don’t we wait until the end of the season to write it off?
Asked if he needs a striker AW just said,
“Look the difficulty is not to make the decision, it is to find the personnel …….. We are very active in the market”.
@ BB, we need more than DM. We need a CB,DM and a striker in 24 hrs. You are having a laugh, shame.
Still like Alexis up front but clearly Arsene has other thoughts. Sanogo, well if he’s that bad, can only get better! 😀
Maybe a change of formation would help.. questions questions..!
What’s the answers?! 😀
Sanogo should be like number 4 on the depth chart. Not second, just saying. We might as well bring Chuba Akpom into the first team too, he can’t be any worse than Sanogo.
@ SAG
Well, a change in formation and maybe a little more depth would help. Not a good result if we want to be the main contenders but not the worse either is the way i see it.
Everyone knows what we need (or want anyway), question is are we going to get it? Depth is what is lacked but we’re never going to be as well stocked as the Chavs or them Oilers. (why not? that i will leave for others to debate, not getting into that!)
So my (guess) is the barest minimum, a proper DM so we can play around with formations and have some more of that depth. Don’t forget that it’s still a long season, and Theo will be back.. hopefully Diaby too and who knows maybe Campbell will get a run out and perform well? Sanogo may score a hat trick (if he plays) in the next game.
Have so far seen Pool and Spuds play very fast pace counter attacking styles. Hence I am more worried about the defence. But I ramble on, and that’s just my two cents. Take it or leave it on any road.
And I DO share your frustration by the way, i too see it as two points loss.
😀
BB, Please don’t jinx it with the mention of Diaby. We can’t make any plans with Diaby in mind. You know we can’t rely on him to be fit for more than 45mins, that’s the truth.
@SAG
Just putting forth the countless possibilities 😀
Yes BB, i think change of formation is needed. For me, all these 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-4-1 is never really fit us. I personally think over the last few years, we are not that dangerous when we use lone striker.
I always think after Henry, we never have players that have the ability and the guts to bring the ball to the box, try to pass defender and try to make the defence out of shape. The consequences are too many useless passing to left, right, back because we are waiting for a movement in the box and sadly that movement never comes. We use to create chances, now it’s like we only pass the ball and wait. Alexis arrived and I said to my self, probably this is the time we have someone who can goes to the box and pulls a defender toward him and makes a room for other. But I think I have to wait.
But I’m not Arsene so I think I’m talking nonsense. I still have high hope for the boys, hope it’s just a matter of find that ‘click’.
@ Ambydex
Yes! Wholeheartedly agree with the thoughts on formations!
It’s as if you were playing Barca, everyone knows how they are going to play, so it’s just a matter of whether they have good enough players to counter it!
But it we can switch to 4-4-2 et al. that would be brilliant! We’ll have another option that can keep the other teams guessing!
Am keeping my fingers crossed that we have enough personnel to warrant a change every now and then!
😀
Carvalho starts for Sporting at the moment. I really hoped we could get him, feel that he is just what we need. Good chance to see him once again as the derby with Benfica is on my TV.
Some talk about Bacca from Sevilla. Just a rumor at the moment, don’t expect to much.
In all honesty if I am Arsene I will ask for Bony availability. He is PL proven, can lead the line, decent speed, won’t cost that much, won’t need some astronomical salary and when Giroud is back they will fight for that one striker spot. One of the players disappointed me today was Sanogo, mainly because of his innability to connect with other players. Not a good sign. He may he perfect for a counter attacking football, but when we need to dominate possession, he is clerly out of depth.
Off to watch Carvalho.
Lurky,
Seriously mate, how can you say a centre forward who can’t control the ball is “perfect for counter attacking football” ?
I wouldn’t back him to trap a bag of cement 🙂
Utter toss of an answer, at least if it is directed at me. I only challenged you answer what we were not good enough for (winning the league? being the arsenal? playing football at all?) because I have a hard time accepting invisible and non-specified yard sticks. Apparenly you did answer that without me noticing it with a “not even for top four” so I guess you meant that this team doesn’t have what it takes to win the league. Which, indecently, is true for most teams in England. But an acceptable view non the less. So, thanks for that answer. Should have seen it before I posted.
For the rest of it? I said that you are very welcome to hold whatever view you do and say whatever you want to say, and that the fault is wholly mine for not having the strength to listen to it, not that you are in any way at fault for saying it. Was taking the full blame for that feeling, so do not go play the martyr card. No, that negativity isn’t popular when it comes to me, but that doesn’t mean I think of you as any less of an individual or as an Arsenal supporter. Fucking unnecessary to say that you can’t say anything in this bar without getting jumped.
Yep, now you are getting jumped. But in quite a friendly way (you know, with me saying you are at liberty to say whatever about the team performance and me understanding that I am the one not interesting in listening not saying that you do anything wrong)
Oh, and 219 is directed squarely at SAG. If that wasn’t obvious.
Anyway, before I’m accused of slaughtering the guy, as with any player, it is not Sanogo’s fault if he is not good enough.
He tries. That is all you can ask.
Pangloss @206
As one of the more moderate commentators here you fulfil a useful function in balancing a lot of the more extreme negative comments……but I share a lot of the frustration many are expressing on here simply because we continually seem to let transfer windows pass without doing enough.
We are wafer thin in terms of defensive cover given Gibbs’ predisposition to injury. What if Koscielny’s injury had put him out for three months ? We have a terrific prospect learning a new position age 19 and the next most experienced CB is having a medical at Norwich tonight. Six first- team defenders only.
We have needed more power in midfield for a long time and the lack of penetration was admitted by Wenger himself today. If we don’t get the problems sorted by tomorrow night it is highly likely that we won’t be able to fix them in January because so few opportunities present themselves then.
I haven’t even addressed the striker situation. I love to see good young homegrown players come through at Arsenal. I have seen many in my time and sadly Sanogo is nowhere near good enough to shoulder the burden of leading the attack, nor is it remotely fair to expect him to.
I think that combination of events is creating the pessimism. You will know yourself that moods in football tend to swing between ecstasy and despair and you seem to have the ability to distance yourself from some of the more extreme criticism. Not sure if I envy that but I respect it. I’m a little more emotional!
I do feel a real sense of frustration that we are ( as we so often are) backed into a transfer corner with few options at the eleventh hour when the window has been open for months. Of our four signings three are arguably replacements for players that have left and Sanchez is a real upgrade on what we have. I’d hate to think that each year one mega signing is made to pacify the fans without all the challenges we have being addressed. I don’t personally subscribe to that view and I have huge regard for Wenger in so many ways but his conservatism in transfer strategy and his apparent predilection for drawing things out to the last minute to save a few bob have not served us well in recent windows.
I detest Mourinho but this season he has introduced top players early ( and at reasonable prices ) and as soon as Torres leaves he is replaced by a cost- effective option- someone we could have signed in July had we taken the opportunity. These signings have bedded down in pre- season with very positive results. The fee for Remy would have been the same in July.
I do hope my pessimism is ill- founded and I do hope we are able to magic some top signings out of the last twenty four hours of the window. Fingers very much crossed.
Trev,
Walcott had(s) a problem with ball control but is perfect for a counter. Pedro, Chicharito are no great technically either,but are perfect for counter attacks, etc.
Very well said, ttg.
The game wasn’t a total loss. Another 90 mins for bonding and understanding. While the lack of passion and desire was apparent and the tactics and personnel deployed left a lot to be desired, the game was played at a notoriously difficult place to get a result(for Arsenal at least) against a fired up team still used to winning. Remember the Foxes won the Championship at a canter last season.
The international break couldn’t come any sooner. AW needs to take stock and ask himself if this squad is deep enough to challenge on all fronts. Just hope that the injuries sustained today are not serious.
Walcott has improved as his strength has increased and allowed him to control and keep the ball better.
Until then he was an uncontrolled bundle of frustration. It was great that he received such consistent support, but we were not relying on him to be the main man through the first years of his Arsenal career.
Pedro has no ball control ?
Think the controls on your TV must need a bit of attention. 😉
Hear Hear TTG!
😀
Sanogo will never be good enough for us.
Kanu was better, Adebayor was better, even Bendtner was better.
Speaking of tall strikers outside Arsenal – Toni, Klose, Koller, Flo, Llorente, all way better then Sanogo.
Sanogo is better than Crouch and Carroll, though.
Cheaper anyway.
@ Toby, am not going to go back and forth with you. Like you said I have my opinion just like you do.
Disappointing indeed but only 3 games in.
The reasonable thing to do is accept that it’s better than a loss and leave it at that. It also wouldn’t be outside the realms of sane thought to acknowledge that at some point we will struggle badly for goals. Alexis is going to be asked to carry the team until the new year and he’ll end up run into the ground like OG was last term.
I love Wenger but it’s disingenuous to remark that we have forwards in the side when he doesn’t trust Podolski to play centrally and Theo is at least 6 weeks away from match fitness /sharpness.
Ah well. He’s the prof! He’ll manage something.
However inconsistent, ordinary, sometimes bereft of ideas this performance was we should probably take a step back and hope that we got through this one without any injury discovered after the fact. There were some glimpses — I know, I know with us there always are glimpses — of how some of the alternative formulations will work, some scattered good displays (Nacho my MOTM, for being the most consistent and always offering an outlet) and at least a point. That leaves us four points off the top going into the international break. Not ideal, but not the worst as well. But most importantly, the key fixtures before the break have been navigated and we are back in CL. The last Besiktas game of course have huge influence on this match.
We haven’t been playing consistently penetrative football for a few years now. Last year especially we had earned a lot of points through sheer doggedness and character — things we were once accused to be lacking of — and on top of that we are slowly rebuilding the finesse and the sharpness. It will take a while.
Some additions are of course needed, much needed, and we will probably sort out at least a couple of those in the next day or so (but maybe not as many as we would like to). I expect the performances to be improved significantly through the fall and we will be around the top. The key games around the winter with tiredness — and in case of the teams that have revamped significantly — and fixture congestion would be the time where we can either take a firm grip or start to fall out.
Not a bad away point at all.
@222- ttg, same thoughts here. Thanks for expressing your views better than I could.I would have signed E’to for one year, and Remy too. We are in four competitions, and we all know our injury situations.
SAG, fair enough. I am sorry that my emotions came out the way they did, even if I still think I tried to say that my resentment towards that negative attitude was mostly down to me not wanting to listen to it, not you having it.
Trev, as you said, and I agree, Walcott improved his ball control this past couple of years, but was considered as a menace on counter attacks long before that. As was Chicharito. As for Pedro, he is not on a same level as the others I mentioned, obviously better, but is also frustrating sometimes, that is why I mentioned him.
Anyway, Arteta has a good ball control, so does Parker or Dembele. Add to them Carrick or Pirlo. All good players with excellent ball control. I guess you would pick them to lead you counter attacks.
Speed is what makes a player solid counter attacking option and Sanogo has speed. More then Giroud anyway. So Giroud is better when teams sits deep, and Sanogo has potential to be better on counters, IMO that is.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20140831/wenger-on-draw-transfers-and-sanogo
———–
Do hope that Ox and Ozil are not out for too long, Kos seems to be ok.
That was a bit poo really. Should have got a quality striker in before Giroud was injured as we all (mostly) knew we needed one even with him fit. They’ve all been snapped up now though. Apart from Cavani who would cost too much.
All I want for Jim White Day is a monster in midfield and a top quality striker to make us all go OOOOHHHHHHHHH we’ve got HIM!
Failing that, I’d like Jim White to lose his voice for 36 hours.
Not much to ask is it.
Lurky@234: I would actually say that Giroud is a better CF in counter-attacking moves than we give him credit for and a poorer CF when teams sit deep than he gives the impression of.
Think of our counter-attacking goals in the last few years and you will see Giroud’s involvement in most of them. Often as the provider of the first release ball and quite a few times as the finisher . Giroud-Poldi-Giroud or MF-Giroud-Theo swift moves have given us some of the fastest side-to-side goals in the last couple of years. He is not the one to run with the ball but often the one to finish or the one to start the move.
When teams sit deep he is most useful in the link-up play but is rather limited in an aspect which separates the great strikers from good strikers: his inability to quickly take a defender out (by footwork or good old drop of the shoulder), open up little space and shoot.
Our counter-attacking game could be as lethal as any — and he showed that in World Cup with the impressive duet along side Benzema against Switzerland — with him as the fulcrum but not the runner (Theo/Alexis or even Sanogo if we are playing 4-4-2). Given a bit of space and time he is as good a finisher as any. But it is when teams congest the defense he struggles to score. He tries his best to make up for that by the powerful and rather clever link-up play but quite a few times he has that few extra seconds over our MF players where a bit more quality would get us many more goals.
Toby, at the end we both want the best for our Arsenal.
Real Madrid are in Pink?!?!?
The world as we know it has ended…!
Maybe we will get that striker after all.. or at least a DM!
😀
Kagawa joins back Dortmund
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29006030
Waste of two years in that wasteland.
Silent Stan had the benefit of watching this in person, and, if he has any sense, must know that he needs to break out his checkbook.
The side continues to be fragile physically — and there are no power players whatsoever. And to go into a match with only one defender on the bench is simply wrongheaded in a league like the EPL.
The blogosphere is screeching for a striker as priority one, but the thinness in the backline (and I’m including DM) — in number and physicality — is far more worrisome.
True that, Dr. F.
The Old Cesspool.
Dr. Faustus, I’ve noticed Giroud involvement in some Arsenal counter attacks.
But I’ve noticed much more counter attacks that he ruined, either by slowing down the game, poor distribution, falling down under pressure from opponent, sideway or backwards pass, unnability to run away from the defender. To predictable to be good counter attacking option. As much dont like Diego Costa as a player, his performance yesterday is a lesson how a striker uses his strength and pace to play on counters. Sanogo has both, strength and pace, only lacks understanding with other players, good movement and timing. He will get there I am sure, he has the ingredients.
I agree with your analysis when Giroud plays against teams that defend deep, though.
Jean @ 241: Agrees. A more assertive defensive minded MF player as well as another CB I think are mandatory to have the minimum squad quality and depth ( without having to rely on the reserve for depth). After that some ‘creative solution’ in the goalscoring department would be welcome.
However I think we would end up with one versatile enough defensive player to cover DM as well as CB and if possible either one of those forward players in Arsene’s long-term target list (a marquee signing) or more likely an emergency loan.
@241 Bayonne Jean
Have always thought we needed more defensive players than the striker and said so many times, however don’t think we’re necessarily fragile physically, maybe a little overworked which contributed to the (minor?) injuries but that’s what the physio is for and he’s supposed to be really good too!
So let’s await the outcome of Arsene’s hand of Poker.
😀
As for Carvalho, I really like what I am seeing. Good, mature performance, excellent passing as passes are always well timed and precise, good heading ability, tactically and positionally aware, not imposing himself that much in the game, but doing his job quietly and effectively.
Lurky @ 243: At this point of time Sanogo has strength and power. And…that’s it. Maybe some movements in the box. He has an ordinary first touch, a very poor pass to the wide players, no abilities to spot the run of midfielders and cannot find the finishing at this level (a matter of confidence and agility). In other words, far from the finished article. IMHO, farthest from the finished article in our forward team (Campbell is much ahead).
He may or may not turn out to be great player for us. I sure hope he does, and with Arsene’s eye for talents and his record to make them better it is likely he will. But at this point of time he is not a comparison to Giroud, and no way even a close-to-workable replacement.
Wenger keeps banging out this “Sonogo scored a lot when he was younger” line… According to ESPN stats, he scored 10 goals over 2 seasons with Auxere, 9 in the French second division. (4 came in one game I think.) 10 goals in 2 years for a teenager isn’t bad, but it isn’t Romario either. Seems disingenuous.
Apparently it is 17 Arsenal appearances without a goal now. Today he wasn’t even getting in position really, offered very little in any phase of the game.
Tough to dump on the kid, he’s trying his best to do the job he’s been asked to do. If he keep splaying and costing us points though something has got to give.
He’s gone now and may not have been great anyway, but Remy is a proven PL goalscorer. at 27 you could have sold him for what was a very reasonable release clause in a season or two no problem. Was basically a free punt and we turned our noses up? Did the same with Ba before he went to the Chavs. Same deal, they effectively got 18 months for nothing more than his wages, sold him on for what they paid at a knocked down price.
I feel sleazy even moaning after 3 league games, but this is something that has been a problem since RVP left. It’s bullshit that no one worth getting, no better than what we have, has been available in that time. People can say Sanchez, but we can’t play him in 2 positions in 1 match and he wasn’t our striker today.
We can’t do more than what our finances allow, but we aren’t even using the resources we have at the moment. If we keep sitting tight and waiting for the great deal in the future we might find we piss away the present. Honestly, given what we have at the moment, f we can’t do better than a domestic cup run and 4th again, having been out of the title race for couple of months, then we have underachieved in my opinion.
I offer my full and unwavering support at every game I go to, never ever gripe in the ground, but it is different outside that. I look forward to AW proving the world wrong, but right now all the critics are saying what I am seeing from the team.
Unbelievable. Di Natale just scored a brace in 5 minutes for Udinese. Sign him up, one of the best strikers ever.
Lurky,
I quote from your post to me –
“Anyway, Arteta has a good ball control, so does Parker or Dembele. Add to them Carrick or Pirlo. All good players with excellent ball control. I guess you would pick them to lead you counter attacks.”
Thank you, first of all, for the mocking condescension.
After more than 40 years of supporting the Arsenal, even I have gathered one or two ideas on the qualities required to play different styles of the game.
I’m not going to get involved in a series of boring counter claims to try to change your mind. But I will say this –
Several people in the bar have been saying how much they miss so many of the old regulars. As one of them, so do I.
Suffice to say I now know many of them personally and there is a reason why many of them are now such rare posters.
This place used to be somewhere where opinions could be expressed and exchanged without getting involved in a long drawn out crusade to have your mind changed by someone who thinks they know better.
So, you think Sanogo would be the perfect centre forward for counter attacking football. I said I disagreed. You then start comparing him to Walcott, Pedro and Chiquarito. What the hell is that supposed to be about ?
The interaction in here used to be full of humour, fun and imagination, now too often replaced by dour pseudo intellectualism that has nothing to do with the atmosphere of football and it’s accompanying, often gallows, humour that I loved.
That is only my opinion and my problem.
That is not all, or only, directed at you Lurky. It is a feeling that has been growing for some time and that piece of nonsense about who should lead counter attacks has hit a nerve.
Sorry. There it is.
We offered 55m for Falcao, Guardian story.
Evening, all.
After games like today’s Iittle doubts creep into my mind and I sometimes think we are not in a good place but then I watch/read Arsene’s thoughts and interviews like the one posted above and somehow he always manages to convince me and make me believe he knows what he’s doing, maybe because he choses his words better than the people who try to tell me we are in trouble, maybe because most times it turns out he was right; like when he said his team could go through a season unbeaten; or when he said Van Persie would make it as a centre-forward; or even more recently when everyone else said we will never win anything again with him in charge and we went and won that FA cup; maybe because he has amassed a wealth of experience over the years as a top class manager.
I might never know for sure why I trust him but I do know that once again the doubts have started creeping in and the voices inside and outside my head are saying we are trouble, again, but I find myself putting my trust in him, again. It’s not like he has ever really failed me, even if he ever did/does that, one thing is never in doubt; he always acts with my best interest in mind. And that’s good enough for me.
“Thank you, first of all, for the mocking condescension.”
Wow. I suppose if you can have it both ways why not 🙂
You may have a point, Trev and I offer an apology for being such a pain in a ass sometimes. Have a good day.
Bedtime here, but my final thought before sleeping on it and waking up bullish about our title charge again: everyone is saying we need a striker now, but that is probably third on the list of shit we need to get done tomorrow. A proper defensive presence in midfield, a third centre-back, then a striker I’d go for in order of priority. We’ve hd at least 50mil and month to get things lined up…
ttg@222 – We discussed our takes on things a few weeks back and I understand why you suffer the degree of frustration that you do. I certainly envy the extra opportunities to watch the team that your decisions on how to spend your disposable income afford you.
My attitude toward Arsenal’s travails is fairly simple:
1) Whatever was said to the media, I believe that the club’s transfer business over the past few seasons was seriously restricted by building the new stadium. As far as I can make out, prior to starting to build we said something along the lines of “Building the stadium will not adversely affect our ability to compete in the transfer market”. The alternative statement would have been “Well, obviously if we’re spending a shedload of cash on building a stadium, that’s money we won’t be able to spend in the transfer market”.
2) We have now nearly finished paying off the stadium and, accordingly, there is more money to spend on the market. That’s “more money”, not the kind of near-limitless amounts available to Russian oligarchs and Middle Eastern ruling families. I think we have about enough money to pull in one world-class talent per year. Now, if we take the average length of the peak of a player’s career to be five years, then we’d expect 5 of a squad of 25 to pass beyond that peak every year. Maybe the peak career lasts for eight years – in that case we’d need to replace around 3 each year. Above, I say that I believe we have enough money available to get in one world-class player a year – that is fewer than the 3-5 we would need to bring in. I conclude that it’s not possible for Arsenal to have a squad with two world-class players for each position.
3) I trust Arsène Wenger. I know it’s fashionable to hedge that around with a few qualifications, a few digs at the way he conducts himself during transfer negotiations and various other comments, but I don’t. Purely and simply, I trust him. It’s quite likely that he makes mistakes from time to time. That, to my mind, is neither here nor there. We all make mistakes, the great thing about our position compared to Wenger’s is that our mistakes generally remain private. (I concede that he is richly rewarded for the inconvenience of having to make his mistakes in public.)
4) If problems are obvious to us fans, it seems to me almost certain that they are also obvious to the manager. If he fails to remedy one or other of those problems, I choose to believe that it’s because the solution wasn’t available, or because he has taken action to remedy another problem that he considered more pressing. I have rarely, if ever, seen actual, copper-bottomed evidence that failure to remedy “obvious” problems has any other explanation – in fact now I come to consider it, critics don’t tend to offer any evidence to support their assertions that opportunities have been missed; as far as I recall they just repeat those assertions.
5) Over the recent past, our squad has been smaller than we might otherwise have wished for. Because of this, players have had to be brought back after the inevitable injuries, quicker than they would have with a bigger squad. Players have suffered more injuries because of that. It seems to me that many of “more extreme negative comments” are along the lines of so-and-so has been injured for long periods in the past, so they will be injured for long periods in the future.
I’m not confident that everything will be sorted out by the end of the transfer window. I am confident that all the effort I might wish for will be put into attempting to sort out as many things as can be sorted out.
I’m pretty sure that nothing I say or do will increase the chances that everything will be sorted out, and am absolutely certain that the more I worry the less I will enjoy the rollercoaster called the football season.
I very much suspect that this last is true of almost everyone who contributes to this site and I certainly don’t envy those who choose to to rant and worry anyway.
COYG
EP
You are measured in your comments about Sanogo. He hasn’t pulled up any trees but one reason was he was so often injured . Apart from how good he is there is the big question of his fitness. He has regularly had serious injuries. He did last season and has already had one knock this season. But the most important thing is that it is grossly unfair to allow a young, unproved and apparently quite emotional lad carry the burden of leading an attack in the Premier League for half a season leaving aside the quality of players around him. Wenger will appreciate this as much as anyone and that is why he will, I suspect, do his best to bring in someone. Frankly I think Akpom has much greater potential than Sanogo but it would be ridiculously premature to promote him at this stage of his development.
I don’t imagine anyone on this site either wants an Arsenal player to fail or boos him at the match. I have berated people for doing this but it doesn’t happen often in my hearing. But honest assessment of our players on a supporters site seems to. E the place for an honest debate about players’ abilities .
TTG – cheers mate. He seems like a lovely kid. I’m no talent scout, so I won’t predict where he goes, but it does seem pretty glaring he aint ready right now for where we need to go.
As you say, I’m sure the boss will do what we need and in the process protect the young lad from being thrown in the deep end.
Forward
very well said, Pangloss, I agree with every single word of that!
Great post too, Pangloss.
My only variation from what you said is that I do find it frustrating to find ourselves with so much to do on the last day of the dreaded transfer window.
So much, only in my opinion, of course, and after getting such good business done earlier.
Tomorrow will reveal all.
Or nothing.
Pangloss
A very clearly worded analysis of the situation and one that I have a measure of agreement with. In years to come we will come to realise the debt we owe to Wenger. Having praised ( very reluctantly) Mourinho , a man with the fraction of moral fibre and class that our manager has, I can never imagine Mourinho agreeing to operate within the severe financial straitjacket that Wenger find. He would have decamped go the next club that offered him an unlimited transfer budget. Wenger chose the other course and stayed loyal to Arsenal when he could have joined ANY other club in world football. He has rejected them all.
Swiss Ramble has produced regular analyses of the financial position of the club which reveal the extent of the in encumbered cash reserves we have. They are very substantial.
So that brings us to the definition of world- class. Debuchy seems to me to be an excellent replacement for Sagna. He cost £9.5 million or something . He is a top international player and perfectly adequate to help us win silverware. Koscielny is similarly talented and has probably trebled his value in four years at the club. Mertesacker cost around £10 million and he is a World Cup winner. So the defensive infrastructure can be built with sensible buys if they are made by a judge as good as Wenger. Chambers looks to be an example of his excellent eye for exceptional talent.
It is the Ozil/ Sanchez type of player who is the problem. They cost mega bucks and I suspect we can only buy two a season. Remy would to my mind have been a no brainier signing. A quality striker at a knockdown price. Cazorla was a similar price to that, similarly Podolski and Giroud. I think Wenger is good enough to assemble a team without having to trade constantly in Harrods but on occasion he needs to and I think in this window he could have signed Remy, Carvalho and Winston’s Reid who would have completed an excellent roster for an additional £ 40 million. Arsenal have that kind of money and if they had spent it in August I suspect we might have played better in all our matches this season and convinced players like Sanchez that we have the ambition to match our stature in the game.
Sorry I meant unencumbered reserves. Predictive text on the IPad is a lottery!
You know… it really could be worse, for example, you could be supporting Real Madrid (who are in PINK) seeing them lead 2-0 and now losing 4-2… 😀
Oh and Carlos Vela netting one! (Go Carlos!)
(It’s the pinkiness of it all, i tells ya..)
😀
Here I submit proof that the jerseys do make the team, Oh My! : http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/512/media/images/77293000/jpg/_77293205_023702951-1.jpg
😀
So, TTG@261, we disagree on two points:
1) You believe we can bring in two world-class talents per year, while I think we can only bring in one. That’s not too much of a difference, and rather suggests that you also agree that we can’t afford to buy a squad with two world-class players for each position.
2) You think we should have bought at least one of Remy, Carvalho and Winston Reid. As I’ve said above, I trust the manager’s judgement. If he could indeed have brought them in and didn’t I choose to believe that it’s because he didn’t think that they represented a big enough improvement over what we have to justify the expense. (I emphasise that it’s my choice to believe that just as unless you know something significant that I don’t, you choose to believe that it’s due to some reluctance on his part “trade in Harrods”.) I choose believe that the reason he didn’t spend money in August was because he didn’t see anything to spend money on; you appear to have chosen to believe that he did so from some desire to indulge in brinkmanship.
Finally, I am completely befuddled by your closing phrase about convincing “players like Sanchez that we have the ambition to match our stature in the game”. Is there some evidence that Sanchez harbours such doubts?
69% of the possession, 31% of the application. Wrong team selection (should have rested Santi and Kos as I suggested), Subs way too late, and still no transfer action. No comment on Özil.
If Manure, $hitty and the spuds hadn’t secured just one point between them I’d be looking for a rope…
Öskar
Morgan was my MOTM. 30yo, but could be a cheap CD back-up. He played better than ours today, positioned himself well and solid in defence. Excellent team player.
Öskar
Pangloss,
Best post I’ve read in the window, and a reminder that we’re supposed to be enjoying this (after all, the original meaning of sport is simply ‘fun’). Like you, I don’t want to spend the next 9 months grumbling; it’s not good for the soul.
And on that topic can I put out a request to everyone: let’s just try and all get along, huh? Hoping to spread a little peace to all
all.
Have a good week.
Evening and New Season all! Good to see many regulars back in the bar.
Some perspective please all, even though it was yet another agonisingly disjointed and impotent performance! 1-1 away at a physical and well organised side that won the Championship by a mile last year, and after an exhausting and mentally gruelling midweek match against a tough Turkish side, isn’t the end of the world! The upcoming Cunts at the Bus Stop, the Oily Mercenaries, and the Lily-white Cunts are the true tests where we can judge our seasons prospects!
Real Madrid’s 4 – 2 defeat, after being 2 – 0 up against Carlos Vela et al and after spending a zillion pounds and wearing Salmon Pink, still doesn’t guarantee anything for the financially doped feckers! 8-)! What a wasted talent Carlos was for the us; never appreciated by Arsene!
Would love to see three D-Day signings to increase squad depth, experience and quality for all competitions: A Striker; A Defensive Midfielder; and A left-sided Central Defender and we’re set for the season!
Regarding Cuntski, they’re not as good as many who are masturbating think they are! Maureen will forever be a negative feckin’ cunt!
COYBG! The double is well on this term!
Point of contention with one of the above posts. I’ve seen this kind of thing said before, but it’s not true.
We are not even close to having paid off the stadium.
The debt, however, is very manageable and will be repaid on schedule by 2031. And to our credit we have brought the total down immensely, which is especially amazing considering that in the States almost every stadium gets some kind of financial aid from the municipality where it is located.
matt foley@270 – I suspect I have been making false statements about paying off the stadium debt. I apologise.
Dapper Dan C – Good to see you back, I think you appeared in at least one recent list of those who no longer post here.
Aww sweet holy fuck
isn’t she hilarious
yup
no is. the answer
ro is talking shite
on my be loaf
howdy
howdy all 🙂
I will slowly enter the dreamland with the sounds of The Conversation soundtrack.
…and Fester.
Pangloss @265, I think you and ttg are saying the same thing. What is world class? I know the term is usually associated with MF and attacking players. But I believe our defense is world class compared to other defenses in the league. What I feel we lack is still that Strong DM. Wenger knows this too,he built one of the best sides ever to play in the premier league, so only he knows why he thinks that Arteta and Flamini can do the job all season long. We will know for sure where we are by the midnight Monday.
Pangloss
My point was that players of high quality needn’t be expensive. We can certainly afford a squad good enough go compete seriously for the Premier League.
And I think we can buy all three of those players now for £40 million
I suspect that both Ozil and Sanchez will be a little disillusioned should Sanogo lead our attack until January. That’s not what I suspect he signed up for
*waves at Trev*
Absolutely nailed on @250 Sir.
I hope not to offend anyone here with this, but if there’s one thing that my mere 4 decades of watching football has taught me is that what “should” (on paper) happen in any game, is often some way off what “will” happen in a game, when there are 90-odd minutes of incidents, decisions, and on particularly unfortunate occasions Anthony Taylor, in between the kick off and final whistle to deal with.
It’s why I go, week in, week out, home and away, season after season.
And it’s what makes it so much fun to watch. Apart from Anthony Taylor obviously, who can go fuck himself with a rusty garden fork for all I care. And that wanker Hammond too, the hideous hoofing fucker.
The knee jerk craziness, bile and general interweb lunacy that happens in the wake of results such as today’s is quite often just too much to bother with after a long, tense and (on this occasion), a somewhat frustrating and disappointing day.
Which is a shame, as football’s really meant to be more enjoyable than that.
Thanks Pangloss!
Nice stuff @256! A double of your favourite malt on my tab, fella!
Dapper DanC: See @231. Great minds think alike etc. 🙂
Love and share your reserved optimism.
On the stadium debt thing, I have suggested before that our billionaire owners could ingratiate themselves with the fans by investing in the club by paying off our debt. This would free up funds, not insignificantly, but it probably wouldn’t really make sense for them. Of course, that’s hard to quantify because if we somehow get back to winning ways, as in challenging for the league, it would increase the value of the club immensely. That is especially poignant considering that we are starting to look at an entire generation that has grown up seeing Chelsea, United, and City win (not the good guys). To think this doesn’t affect the future prospects of a club run on its ability to generate its own revenue would be silly. I would mention that in the States I’d never really seen a Chelsea fan before 6-7 years ago and certainly never a City fan , not one. We may have just gone through the most important time period for expansion of the appeal of the premiership without us really coming close. This is what worries me, that all the sacrifice and planning will be undone because of the timing and some bad luck (broken legs etc).
Tired of moaning now.
Dr F @278, touché my glass-half full friend! Good to see you with thee, and BtM, in our sunny-side camp! A double on my tab please Bar-keep!
Lest we all forget ‘holics, in Arsene’s first full season at our beloved club, we drew early doors away at the old Philbert Street when an equally physical and dogged Leicester, under the tutelage of a young Martin O’Neill, shared the soils! That same season, the lads went on to bring the double back to Highbury! Lightening and all that lads and ladies, lightening and all that…! Enjoy the rest of the drinks! COYBG!
Thanks, snowy. From you, that means a lot.
I seem to be falling out with one or two unfortunately, but I miss the camaraderie and the fun.
I meant “shared the spoils”! No soiling visible here yet! 😉
Snowy @276, well put!
Trev @281, keep it up fella; you’re never far off with your posts!
Up the Arse!
And probably Filbert Street, DanC,
said the pedant. 😉
Cheers, Danc. Cross-posting again ! 😉
@Trev 😀
Falcao rumours picking-up pace! Let’s see what tomorrow’s DDay nonsense holds! Up the Big Arse!
Me too Trev – I fall out with people all the time 😉
I do realise this is a football blog, but I do also think it has become a bit overly serious, with far too many long drawn out “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin”-type arguments that ultimately change nowt.
We used to state our opinions and if there was no movement of opinions among those we disagreed with, just agree to disagree and move on – pretty much like we mostly all do when we’re talking in person.
And I for one feel that we have heard far too little from Peter Hill-Wood during this window. And yet a-fucking-gain NOTHING from Behind the Arse, Tabs you idle provocative fucker you 🙂
And thanks Dan – virtual pints on the bar for now for, and real ones on person for all who are Tolllie bound sometime soon 🙂
287, Falcao to City. Arsene in Rome at Charity event. AW’s not buying anyone.
Wenger doesn’t do the signing. He doesn’t have to be in London if he has a phone. Gazidis and Law are the key figures
Some good posts above. Pangloss and Dapper Dan C. should be mentioned in dispatches. As noted earlier, we haven’t won often at Leicester in the Premiership era, so a draw was perhaps always on the cards. We laboured against a hard-working and well organized Leicester side. Perhaps if Kos hadn’t come back on after his head wound, we would have ground out another 1-0 win.
As for the much-put-upon Sanogo, he scored 34 goals in 58 games for the France age group teams, including 5 in 11 for the U-20s. And 11 goals in 24 games in all competitions for Auxerre. It is not a horrible goalscoring record (and a better club games per goal record than Remy has, btw, though Remy has played more than 250 games), but perhaps that is what AW is referring to when he talks of Sanogo scoring lots of goals as a youngster. Sanogo is a prospect (and I tend to the view that he is a good one) but no one could credibly argue that either he is the finished product or that he would be starting games were Giroud available.
Not liking the excuses being bandied in here
FACT: WE ARE THE ARSENAL
FACT: THEY ARE LEICESTER
we SHOULD have won that game,easy way or the hard way…3pts SHOULD have been got. have a feeling we going to rue this and many opportunities missed on ‘easy’ games we SHOULD win, considering we missed the title by about 7 points*sigh*
everyone around us seems to be stronger-read chelsea- than they were last term. making excuses isnt going to get us anywhere,only end up getting smashed for 6 at eastlands,anfield or worse…at home. We are the Arsenal,we play in the champion’s league..they are leicester,relegation candidate…no excuses,we need to see the pedigree come forth everytime we step on the pitch doesnt matter the opposition..win some lose some..yes i know…but with results like these i’m afraid we’l be scrapping for 4th..again*sigh*
forgive my whining,jus couldnt help voicing my frustrations…VICTORIA CONCORDIA CRESCIT
What Snowy said at 276.
Trev@111: I for one would love you to play for the Arsenal. You and Sanchez up front. It would be hit and pun every game…
Thank you snowy et al >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>