Champions League. We Must Be Playing Dortmund
Sep 15th, 2014 by 'holic
“Klopp’s team, who have never lost at home to an English club, are chasing an eighth straight European home win in succession… One High Street bookie offers a staggering 20/1 against a good old-fashioned one nil to the Arsenal. I cannot ignore that…”
Written the night before we journeyed to Dortmund ten months ago. We won 1-0. I picked up a nice little earner. Dortmund have now lost at home to an English club. This time around I am not so certain that supporters of either club go into the match confident of the points, such is the havoc wreaked on both squads by injuries.
The hosts are missing a minimum of eight players from their squad, including the influential Hummels (Ironically a target for us, allegedly), Sahin, Reus and Blaszczykowski. For our part we have lost both full-backs from the weekend draw with Manchester City. That means we are down to the bare bones at the back with youngsters Hector Bellerin and Isaac Hayden likely to provide cover on the bench. Looking at Mathieu Flamini limping around in the latter stages against City it is hard to see him starting either although he was not mentioned in the pre-match presser.
Arsene quoted Calum Chambers as a 50/50 chance of starting and had one of those wry smiles when he called tonsilitis as the cause. I would be surprised if the former Southampton lad and Keiran Gibbs do not come into the back four with Mikel Arteta returning in place of Flamini.
Most interesting selection for me, not for the first time will be the chief playmaker. Jack Wilshere was outstanding on Saturday but, cast out predominantly on the wing, Mesut Ozil divides opinion. It is not a new conundrum, nor an Arsenal only one. Through the years club and international managers have been given headaches trying to accommodate the likes of Charlie George, Glenn Hoddle, Tony Currie, Matt Le Tissier. The list is endless and all came in for a degree of stick about their defensive contribution. Ozil is a magnificent creator, he sees passes others don’t. On Saturday he looked different class when coming inside as a link man. I would start him if he were a hundred percent. I’m not sure he is, otherwise he would surely be asked to supply the ammunition for Alexis and Danny Welbeck?
The latter two have been mentioned by the enigmatic Klopp who knows full well he faces a different Arsenal team this time around. The mutual love-in between he and Arsene continued pre-match. There is so much respect between the sides born out of regular meetings in this competition. We have won, lost, and drawn in Dortmund in recent seasons. Predicting the outcome of this one is made more difficult as a result. The bookies have Dortmund as slight favourites, but again the 0-1 away win looks generous at 14/1 as I type. However the ‘holic pound is on 1-2, a decent 12/1 punt I think given that we know the home team will give it a go and we are stronger going forward than defending right now.
I know a fair few who are making an early morning start to get out there. Have a fabulous day, and night. In a passionate football venue make as much noise as you can. I’m more than a little jealous not to be with you.
Have a good one, ‘holics, wherever you will be watching.
313 Responses to “Champions League. We Must Be Playing Dortmund”
I don’t believe it…
2nd?
A fine preview guv’nor.
With an important match coming up, perhaps we’ll see less nonsense spouted in the drinks. Or maybe not.
COYG
Cheers Holic. Balanced and thoughtful. Not unusual for you, sir.
I’m with Blogs that when Wenger does call time I would be more than interested in interviewing Klopp for the role. We do seem to do well with bonkers Germans…
And that was my first No.1 drink. Chuffed- though I say so meself!
Posts like buses, Holic.
Lucky to catch this one. 😉
Although this got Holic’d in the last bar –
ARSENAL
Y Sanogo Hamstring Injury no return date
C Chambers Tonsillitis 16th Sep 14 Late Fit Test
N Monreal Back Injury 20th Sep 14
M Debuchy Ankle/Foot Injury no return date
O Giroud Ankle/Foot Injury no return date
S Gnabry Knee Injury no return date
T Walcott ACL Knee Injury 27th Sep 14
The above is taken from Physioroom dot com –
In one week we have jumped from 7th in the injury league table back to our rightful position of 1st. Good to know there is one league we have no trouble in winning.
If Rob the Chef is in the house, could you please make sure these players start eating their crusts and drinking their milk.
Ta.
*waves*
I shall be rushing home from work to watch…. Can we play “injury bingo”?
Blaszczykowski ?
That’s easy for you to say. 😉
Indeed Catalan –
“Doctor’s orders”. ? 😉
Blasheekofski. Simple innit?
I’m in France right now and could kill you with some East London versions of French words…
I’m relying on Arthur for the pronunciation, Trev. 🙂
GSD, be my guest 😉
Can’t wait to see what ttg’s spell chicken makes of Blaszczykowski …. 😉
Hehe, 😉
@12
The look on the poor waitress’s face when my best mate and flatmate Jonny asked her for a ‘ham and cheese croissant’ (pronouncing the ‘r’ in croissant) was priceless.
She held it together- we are English and allowances must be made for our sheer incompetence with other languages. But then, avec full beaming smile, he followed up with (and I’m not making this up…) ‘Gracias, love.’
We both burst out laughing. He seemed not to know what had set us off.
I ordered an omelette in pigeon French and she smiled at me like I had recited, word perfect and in original language, some telling Camus line.
As we left he managed to say ‘Merci,’ but, clearly feeling he had only done half a job, couldn’t get out the door without adding ‘merci’ once more- followed, before he could stop himself, with ‘darlin.’
You can take the boy out of London…
Having moaned about lack of foresight in planning and taking GSD’s very sensible comments on board we must look forward and I believe we will draw tomorrow and it will be the first really satisfactory draw of the season
COYG!
Blas who? He’s not playing Trev!
Thank Goodness.
He also opined later that she was rather taken with me.
Maybe. But I did not have the heart to tell him that he may have made me look pretty good just because I was not trying to eat my breakfast with my foot in my mouth…
TTG@16
Nice to be described as sensible even if Jonny might disagree… Merci indeed.
I’d be happy with a draw and appreciate our defensive struggles. I don’t know why I’m so optimistic given the usually tight nature of these games but I’ve got a gut feeling that this might be a classic game of ‘score all you want, we’ll just score more!.’
Here’s hoping…
@GST: Johnny reminds me of Delboy 🙂
While I was excited as much by the new arrivals as I was by the departures this season, TGSTEL in particular, the injury worries, well, are worrying, hope it doesn’t affect our performance much and that they get back to fitness soon. Btw, aren’t we supposed to have a new fitness specialist?
@20
As many have remarked Shad Forsythe will hopefully have a long-term effect but this may take a while to kick in.
And I have often thought about the Jonny/Del Boy similarities but so many of my mates could fall in that category (and many would tell you the same about me). Jonny is a smart guy and I occasionally get uneasy that he is having a whale of a time parodying the rest of us and playing the fool. At least with Del Boy he says what he means.
Mange tout.
I think this video shows pretty much all of Ozil’s touches against City, he was far from periphery, lazy or poor, what he did and almost always does is receive the ball in space, take the option that best drives the team forward at every point in time and almost never misplaces a pass anywhere on the pitch, most importantly in front of the opposition’s box A.K.A. The final third.
Look at how many times he passes only for the recipient of said pass to choose the wrong option and makke the move break down.
And on that myth about him been STUCK out on the wing, look for his heat map against City, shouldn’t be hard to find on sqwauka or one of those like-minded sites, he was everywhere in the final third.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MZyH0ZveRTk&feature=youtu.be here is the video
Cent. I would just like to reiterate from the last drinks how much I enjoyed your contributions. Really top stuff and, moreover, stuff that spoke to my attitudes as well. Cheers again.
And Ozil can improve his contribution of late. He is not currently in his richest vein of form. But the man is class. I have tremendous faith in his ability to change games and indeed championships with the consistent quality of his football skills. Not since God (aka Dennis) have I seen a player caress the ball with such profound understanding. For me watching him is always a pleasure. I will be as happy as Oskar when he consistently delivers the goods this season but just like this bar’s firmest critic of Ozil I also expect him to have a much improved season this time around and, if I were the manager, he would be the first name on my teamsheet. Alexis Sanchez would be second. He is truly world class. But, for me, he would still be second…
There is only one Mesut- sometimes I struggle with the idea that (seemingly) so many fans don’t see him as one of the world’s best players. When I watch him that is all I see and I have never seen a player like him. I genuinely compare him to Dennis for the quality of his vision- it’s like they play a different game to the rest of us.
I hope his contribution this season (as judged at its end) proves me right. I know everyone else does too..
Another thing to note on Ozil, even when we had other people on the wings and his starting position was in the centre he was always drifting to the wings.
On what he brings to the team; remember how tedious and uncoordinated our passing looked earlier this season or when he was out injured last season? Mesut keeps us ticking over when we have the ball, he never holds on to the ball for a second more than required to make any passing move perfect, in Arsene’s words; his timing is excellent.
Of course I’d like him to work on his shooting technique and maybe shoot a bit more, but looking at what we currently have on our team I wouldn’t swap him for any Dortmund player. He is that unique. And good.
Thanks for the kind words, GSD. I’ve only just back done a thorough back-drink now and saw your kind words in the last set of drinks. It’s a mutual feeling, mate, I enjoy your contributions here too.
And I agree with everything you say above as regards room for improvement in Ozil’s game.
Dennis is my favourite Arsenal player ever(just edges Henry by something like a quarter of an inch)and I think everything he did on the pitch was an Art but I wouldn’t go as far calling him god(with a capital G 😉 ). One thing that differentiates him and Ozil and at the same time makes him better than Ozil is that Ozil doesn’t score much(not that Dennis scored truckloads himself) and Dennis didn’t just score goals, he scored great goals.
Delayed response from previous drinks…
I don’t care how good Cesc might be at football. We were in a relationship and he dumped us. No two ways about that.
How weak and desperate are we that we would re-sign him to his agenda whenever his DNA experiment is over?
Footballing ability does not even enter the equation.
We all take great pride in what supporting The Arsenal means. Only club in the country with a personal pronoun. Damn right.
What would it say about us if we let him back?
We are too valuable to let anyone walk all over us like that. No matter how you cut it letting him back into the fold would have stunk to high heaven of us undervaluing ourselves. No-one gets to do that to us. We are not a haven if Real or Barca or Bayern are done with you. We are a destination in our own right. Ask Ozil. Or Sanchez. Forget little lord Fabregas.
You deserted us. And I will enjoy the intelligent man that you are realising that you made a bad call as you line up next to John Terry every week.
99% of that man does not care. But in this world of soulless mercenaries Cesc has enough about him that 1% cries every night that he ever left us. What value a league title as captain at the club that made you? Cesc will never find out.
But we will win more league titles…
Cent@26
You are right Ozil does not score as many as God (I’m an atheist so can play it fast and loose with the capitalisation, wink).
Which is why I can compare him to God but accept that for all the similarities in their vision of the game Ozil still has a long way to go to make the impact Dennis did. But he is not incapable of adding a few more goals to his game and, in fact, I would say it should be his number one priority to work on. But I do think he has it in him…
Indeed, GSD, he does have it in him. ‘Night, mate.
@29
Goodnight my friend.
And to the rest.
And cheers Holic. Your custodianship is always appreciated but many years ago before I discovered the Drinks it was the quality of your posts that hooked me.
Many years down the line and you get better and better. For all the many *insert your own superlative* drinkers in this bar the main attraction is never lost on any of us.
Cheers
On those odds if I had followed the holic pound 10 months ago and put 10 pounds on Arsenal to win 1-0, I would have pocketed 200 pounds and been wildly happy. My confidence in the holic pound would have escalated and this time I would wager my 200 pounds on Arsenal to win 2-1 because of a deliriously hopeful feeling that I was on the verge of pocketing 2,400 pounds to save for my next wager when we play Dortmund away next year, when I might be able to afford the plane ticket, hotel and restaurant bills, and the ticket to the game. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. 😉
Here’s AW saying what some here said about Ozil: http://www.football365.com/arsenal/9471369/…-And-Jumps-To-Defend-The-Hard-Working-Ozil
To continue Delboy theme, this time next year we’ll be champions. Grand mariner and grapefruit juice for everybody.
AW has a lot invested in Özil and is never going to publicly criticise him, dennis10. Interestingly in your link he also came to the defence of Jack after the $hiteh game. Why? Jack was motm in my opinion and needed absolutely no defending from anyone.
The best I can say about Özil at the moment is that he’s doing the easy stuff well enough. But when we really need a touch of genius, or even a shot on goal ffs, it’s just not there. And these are the moments we paid big bucks for.
But he has to play in Dortmund. If he’s ever going to produce his best it will likely be in Germany against German opposition in front of an adoring German crowd.
Öskar
Grand mariner, dennis10? For splicing the main brave perhaps?
My story about language difficulties involves an old guy I met in France in the early ’60s. He was originally from Durham but had lived in France since deserting during WW1. Being, or believing anyway, that he was still ‘wanted’ in England he’d only ever returned once, very secretly, in the ’50s. He got as far as London and wanted to buy train tickets for he and a mate, but although he still spoke broad Geordie he’d forgotten how to ask for one.
“Two allez-retourne a Darlington”, he got out finally. “You know, two go and come back tickets!”
Öskar
*main brace … doh!
Traveling for the first time to the Netherlands for business in the past few days, Just thought I would pass on my thanks to Holic and all the regulars in the bar for keeping me updated on all things arsenal.
I have travelled to the Netherlands for the first time in my life and realise just how far away australia truly is from the rest of the world and the rest of the footballing world.
I believe this is H2H territory and it certainly is a very beautiful country H2H. Beer is good and hospitality is very friendly. I am staying Close to PSV Eindhoven territory in Veghel and Uden and whilst living out of a suitcase and the bar is the best source of my fix of arsenal stuff.
Look forward to checking in regularly during my travels especially for the run up to dortmund match
Injuries and all – let’s win this one boys.
COYR
Milk ain’t wot it used to be, Trev. All this trim and lite stuff isn’t real milk. The cows responsible should be ashamed. Or turned into burgers…
Öskar
Cent@23: what struck me about that video is how quickly Ozil moves the play forward. Most of the time he takes no more than a couple of touches when he receives the ball. It is difficult to defend against that quickness of thought, especially when it is married to his accuracy of pass. I am with you and the others who would have his as one of the first names on the team sheet.
Worrying are the injuries we are picking up.. hope the trend does not continue to bite us later in the season.
While most everyone knows that we should have signed a CB/DM as replacement for Vermy, shall choose to believe that a player of the ‘quality’ we seek was not available at that time. So we must make do with what we have.
Very encouraging signs so far as our team begins to gel and who knows, hopefully Bellerin or whoever else who comes in will gain the much needed experience and exposure to become the backup of choice.
Still the draw against them oilers still felt like a loss to me, after those two beautiful strikes from Jack and then Alexis, felt we should have held on and won it.
Most would say it is early days yet and six points (to catch chelski) are easily made up as the season draws out. However if I am not mistaken the champion last year was only seven points ahead! To me it is getting precariously close to us actually being out of contention for the top spot if we continue to slip up at the crucial moments and that is frustrating indeed!
Fingers crossed we do not pick up any more injuries (especially our defensive players) and for our backups to shine!
Up The Arse!
😀
Only two thoughts here:
1. Ozil is class and the most naturally gifted player we have. Even when he doesn’t appear to be directly impacting the game his movement is of such a high quality that he unsettles defences. He also makes extremely efficient use of the ball and has the sort of touch that makes the complex look simple.
2. Injuries. Injuries, injuries, injuries. We’re not stretched because we didn’t sign a fourth choice CB. We’re stretched because it’s a month into the season and we already appear to have lost, at one stage or another, our first and second choice full backs on both flanks. As usual, the injuries are clustered and caused by a range of factors.
Thankfully, Bellerin is a top prospect, but Dortmund is no place for a debut.
It is mid September and we have already lost our centre forward and right back to long term injuries. Walcott is still missing and we have a smattering of short term injuries across the side. Who are Chelsea missing at the moment? Do they even get injuries at all? THAT’s the key difference we must address if we have serious title aspirations: we have no chance of outstripping our rivals if the first team is constantly being disrupted in this manner.
I’ve no idea if there’s something specific we’re doing wrong or if it’s just luck. To be honest, I doubt anyone knows. All I do know is that if Shad Forsythe solves the problem then he will deserve a statue outside the stadium.
COYG
Bellerin looks lively going forward. Hope he defends as well too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4RHkAg939g
😀
Good morning, all.
Can’t write much ‘cos I’m just looking in from work. Good to see more appreciation of and support for Ozil.
Off to get work done so I can make it out of work in time for kick-off. Up The Mighty Arse.
To me the injuries we sustain are more than likely caused by the stress of playing so many games in so little time with no time to really rest to heal! It all adds up!
And that could be alleviated if we do have enough players to come in when we are comfortable in the game, to take the first choice off when we are winning. If I recall Costa did come off after scoring a couple of goals, that’s prudent man management and it gives the player a breather instead of playing 90mins game after game, week in and out.
To be unable or unwilling to take players off, shows a lack of depth in the team and that is an area we must surely address IF we are to sustain any sort of challenge in the competitions we are in.
My two cents.
Cent, Ozil is our player, and will always have my support. But, as a long admirer of his, long before he even signed for us, since his Bremen days, I won’t hide the fact that he didn’t had a good game vs City.
The compilation you posted is joy to watch, but is made from an Arsenal fan and a evidently a big Ozil fan.
Ozil had 80% successful passes vs City, but I didn’t see any misplaced passes in that compilation, maybe one lost ball…
He had lot of good passes in City’s third, and without him our link-up play suffers a lot. However, he not only didn’t manage to record an assist in the game, which is
let’s say- understandable, but he didnt even create a chance for his teammates, he didn’t even created a shot for his teammates, (had two key balls though, both in non dangerous areas).
He was simply unnoticed for a large portions of the game.
As for comparing him with Mata, Silva or Fabregas…. Ozil is a biggest talent then any of these but has yet to score or assist for us this season, while the others are doing it regularly for their teams, game after game. In the end, it is maybe not his job to score that much, but we all expect him to assist here and there. Or, maybe we stopped expecting even that?
I am not saying this because I don’t love him, quite the opposite in fact. I will continue to support him in public as ever, but in front of Arsenal fans I can’t pretend to feel like there is nothing wrong with his form. It is just a bad period and we all know it, he will come good, but let’s be honest for a minute, shall we?
Good work, Holic. 2-1 away win, eh? Hmmm. I’m hoping so.
@40 N7 :
Your point 1. Absolutely.
Your point 2. Injuries are principally a function of chance, IMO. I think Bellerin is ready for the daunting challenge of a Dortmund debut. I’m hoping to see him start.
@Lurky
Ozil is a player who is in, at worst, middling form. Yes, he can do more. No, he didn’t assist vs City. But he was part of a front five who looked to have great balance and who repeatedly rattled the defence of the best club in the country.
He’s also an Arsenal player for whom the press have their knives out.
My honest feeling is that he’s not in top form, but that he’s playing a hell of a lot better than people are giving him credit for. You’d think that he’d moved for a world record fee the way people bang on. Ultimately, he went for about £12m more than the likes of Willian and Lallana, both of whom are warming benches as I type without any shit being flung their way. Ozil is top class – no sane person doubts that. He’s also played a lot of football this year and will have his ups and downs like anyone else.
I think he deserves to be cut a little slack.
Also just wanted to note that this site is “in public”. As someone who spent a fair bit of last season looking in on Red Cafe and laughing at the tortured emoting therein, I’m sure there are fans of other clubs who look in here, and maybe even a few journos: I’m quite sure they nick the odd headline of fan sites these days (that “Arsene didn’t want to sign Welbz” story clearly originated on the web).
Anyway, it’s all a side show. Here’s to a big result tonight and that young Bellerin, if started, gives us a taste of his abilities – the lad has jets in his heels and will be our first team right back before Arsene hangs up his raincoat.
@BtM
That’s the stuff!
I must admit, I’m quite looking forward to watching Arsenal rock the Bells. I hope whoever has to track him down that flank has had their Weetabix this morning.
All the comments about Ozil are well made,but you have to consider the impact that he has on the opponents,who have to divert from their normal roles in cae he does something deadly. This is similar to what all of our forwards threaten when going forward,so imagine how would you set up a defence against us – not at all easy.
And this is why I enjoy watching us going forward and the opposition twisting and turning since they dont know what to do ( and you have to admire how citeh gave ud a good game)
Looking forward to a good game tonight
Super excited to see Bellerin tonight. Genuine prospect. (Wouldn’t mind a glimpse of The Panther either, to give Ozil a breather, but I guess Santi would do that.)
2-1 sounds reasonable, any win would be wonderful. Catching these yellow loons at a ow point given the injuries, would be superb if we could punish them. So long as we don’t lose though. With 2 of 3 at home and the away in Belgium, 10 points realistic if we only take one tonight.
I’ll be sampling this game in a Danish sports bar, modelled on a U.S. sports bar, that was modelled on a fake irish pub. It sounds shitter than it looks, but we will see.
This has all the hallmarks of a classic Arsene team now. The exciting youth buzzing around the fringes of the squad in Bellerin, Hayden and my darling KING Akpom. Joel Campbell as Christoper Wreh. Sonogo as Kanu, played by Kanu in a 53 year olds cameo. I’m loving it.
UTA
Thanks very kindly Holic.
The criticism on Ozil is very unfair when you consider that there are new faces, injuries and players still trying to find their feet after a tough summer during the WC.
The reality is we’re still looking to find some form. It’ll take some time. So long as we can stitch a few decent results together and stay in contention until Xmas then hopefully things should begin to click. We were all to quick to celebrate leading the league for most of last year – but it only really matters where you finish come May. That’s a long way off yet.
Very concerned with the ease at which we conceded at the weekend. Especially from set pieces. Seems like there was a massive hole in front of the back four enabling city to run at us. And I’m not altogether enamoured by the zonal defence. I think once we went 2-1 up, we should have reverted to a double pivot and brought on Arteta (for Rambo) alongside Flamini rather than continue singularly with Flamini (who was spent) to shore up the defence and close the game out. The new formation of 4-1-4-1 is an adjustment on last season and is more gutsy in playing an attacking brand of football in transitioning from defence to attack. I think it only works effectively when you’ve a top class DCM otherwise you can become exposed.
As for Dortmund – I’d happily take a draw. Keep it tight and hope to catch them on the break. Would love to see Bellerin get a run – lads a super prospect.
You’ve hit another nail on the head there, Joe:
“The new formation of 4-1-4-1 is an adjustment on last season and is more gutsy in playing an attacking brand of football in transitioning from defence to attack. I think it only works effectively when you’ve a top class DCM otherwise you can become exposed.”
@Oskar@33,34: Guess you are right, maybe AW needs to get his back as he rarely lets any of his players down, hope he comes through when we need him, which is every time he puts on the red and white.
I knew the stupid iPad would make it mariner. Grand Marnier and grapefruit juice topped with decorative plastic umbrellas for all barkeep 🙂
About Ozil.
Why dont we rotate Wilshere/Ramsey/ozil? Why we have to play ALL of them at the same time? Let each rest one after 2 matches.
I think tonight :
Ospina
CC, Per, Kos, Gibbs
Arteta
Ozil, Wilshere
Ox, Welbeck, Alexis
@Gunnersaurus Stunt Double and N7, we do not have the like option here or else i would have super liked the comments.
Mesut is a magician. All this trash talk about him is plain boring and ridiculous. If anyone wants to see his contribution in a game, see how he takes away defenders to allow others in the team have space. He creates space and passes the ball there. That needs precision, vision and perfection. He is that in a nutshell. He will never be a dribbler or a scorer but he is an assist machine. He is of course not completely ready after his world cup endeavours and we need to play him at his favoured position to extract the best of him. All this undue criticism may lead us to lose him and that would be terrible.
The opening will be crucial to the game. More often that not, Arsenal have fallen behind in these games and play catch up leading to the sucker punch of a counter.
We need to hold steady and not concede in the first half. The second half should see our better midfield over take and over run the bvb boys and that should see us win.
Watch out for their forward Ramos, he is quick and will play off the shoulder of Per who i feel is still lacklustre. Mikhatarayan if fit will be a handful and so will immobile.
Yet if we play we will win, we are better man for man and for me this should be a game where the team shows up to their full potential.
Come on you Gunners.
always find the midfield formation discussions
enertaining
as mrs arsed says
ye’re dealing with man not machine
subbuteo arrange all ye want
xbox away – go on
whistle blows
players are on extended elastic bands
much as these “heat maps” suggest
it appears that modern technology
is good for summat
mind you
technology
instant access – the reason for the keyboard manager
and people are frenzy feeding on it
suckin on it for a while
and spittiin it out as their own
minutely detailed
blade by blade
assertions where people should play
should’ve played
might play should tragedy befall elsewhere
can’t recall such nonsense
before the internet
yup
i know where i am
.
anyhoo
heres hopin fer 2-1 to the Arse
COYG
🙂
mind you
i might just be
grumpy and nervousy
heres to
happy ,drunky. and sleepy
later on
.
😉
Super-excited for the game tonight.
A drink of his choice on the bar for Cba, please Barman.
I have spent my morning kicking a plastic inflatable ball back and forth with Jonny, whilst drinking beer, standing in the French sunshine and answering trivia questions, read out by my sister, of the sort you only find tucked away in an old draw as you rummage through a rented villa. Most of them seem to be about UK politics in the twentieth century. A righteous romp from Lloyd George through to Maggie Thatcher. Or not.
It would be remiss of me not to note quite how truly lucky I am.
But Arsenal are still hours away from playing… And I need my fix.
And I’ve just run out of beer.
First World problems (are still ruining my day!)
COYG!!
‘holic
like trev
(maybe ye don’t)
i’m also offering to write a guest post for you
(mine would be better)
.
Look forward to yer rejection
.
(feckin sawbones and pimple poppers)
(think they’re all that – do they? )
(i’ll have you know – I ……)
Ooohhh
Ham an cheese toastie!
cheerio now 🙂
N7, can’t disagree with most of what you said, because I said the basically the same things couple of posts earlier. Yes, Ozil is a great player, class player, best talent of his generation, who doesn’t play in his best form and didn’t have a good game at City. Did I said anything else?
And I agree that he needs our support and he has mine as always.
The problem however begins when someone tries to persuade me that he has a great game vs City, but no facts are given on that matter. When player fails to score or assist or have any kind of impact on the game, people usually say- bit he drags defenders out of position, he creates space for others and all that jazz. Well, let me tell you something. Most of the players do that. Especially players who play on the attacking positions. It is a part of the game, it is not some sort of Ozil magic to do that. Ramsey does that, Alexis drags defenders all the time, Hazard drags three of them at the same time, Rooney does that, Coutinho does that, even Lamella, Larson or Routhledge does that with similar impact.
I am honest, he didn’t have a good game, not just vs City but he is in bad form this season. He has failed to assist or score for us this season, has a poor passing percentage of 80%. Comparing him to the likes of Willian or Lallana made you a great case when you try to defend him? He is just 10-15more expensive then them and has bigger impact then them so far, true.
But that is not the whole picture. Intentionally or not, you compared him with players who are reserves at their teams. Why don’t you compare him, let’s say with Fabregas, who is also 12-15m less payed, bit already has 6-7 assist in the league and plays in the same position, or Mata who has at least an assist or goal in basically every of the last 10 United matches, but cost 15 m less; or Sigurdson who has 4 assists and couple of goals so far for Swans but is payed 35m less and plays in the same position in a far worse team, or Sterling, or Eriksen etc…
Let’s be honest, just for a second is all I am asking. I dont want to argue, we all love the same team and have same interests. It is not a shame to admit it that he is in bad form, that won’t stop us loving him. He will be better, we all agree, I am even confident he will score or assist vs Dortmund and that we have a good chance to win that one, with him being the MOTM. He is that good and maybe the best we have. Just don’t try to persuade me that his performance vs City is satisfying, please, because I know that he is much, much better than that.
oh
and
sláinte Cent
Lurky, I think you will find that the main thing most people who have been defending Ozil have been saying is not that he is in his best form or that he has been assisting or scoring goals, what we have been saying is that he doesn’t deserve half the criticism he has been getting recently and his performances have not been as bad(if at all they have been bad) as people are making it out to be.
Afternoon chaps.
Interesting debate on Ozil. I found myself often looking at him during the City game and thinking he was having a bit of a shocker but sometimes you need to look closer, know what I mean?
From watching the video Cent linked to @ 23, you can clearly see 2 things: his first touch is sublime, and he frequently finds someone in space with his pass.
Why the constant criticism from so many quarters? Feasible reasons may be: He lost the ball a few times, got muscled off it fairly easily once or twice, and he’s not one for tracking back too much (maybe because he’s a pure attacking player?).
The other factor driving the criticism has to be that plenty of people want to see the mighty fall. Jealousy from outside AFC explains that, but from our own fanbase, I feel their expectations are too high: they might want someone who passes really well ALL THE TIME, who never shies from a tackle EVER, who can score WITH BOTH FEET, who can attack AND DEFEND. It feels like, because he’s a marquee signing, he’s not allowed an off day or a misplaced pass.
Anyway, in a roundabout way I’m saying I’m a fan of Ozil. I think he’s imperfect but really awesome.
@ Porco
I enjoyed the whole post. But that last line is a real cracker. Says it all.
El Puno @ 49
So this juicer you’ll be drinking at tonight.
Will it have lots of sayings like ‘Enjoy the craic’ written in Gaelic-looking font on the walls? Will there also be flat screens everywhere? And will most of the bar staff be blonde?
Actually I have no idea of the stereotypes of (a) a US sports bar or (b) a Danish sports bar.
LOL cheers GSD.
Afternoon All,
Ozil …reminds me of the old saying form is temporary but class is permanent. I am a great fan of him – sheer class.
Tonight’s game is totally un-predictable in terms of result but what’s certain is that it should be an absolute cracker. Important we manage to keep 11 players on the pitch for the whole game…we’ve not been to clever in that regard of late. Defensive crisis – what crisis ……3 out of 4 tonight will be 1st pick. Gets a bit tricky should we lose another though.
Drinks on the bar for all with a direct tube bulk feed for cba 😉
Cent,
all I am saying is that he is much better than he is showing in this season performances. Believe me, when he starts playing like he knows and is able to, then I will remind you about this conversation and you will be able to spot the difference. And it will be a big difference.
Porco,
my expectations on Ozil are high, why they shouldn’t be? Should I lower them maybe? He is our most expensive player, biggest star, best talent, why should I expect less when he is the greatest one as I and most of us including you say that all the time?
Oskar @37,
No idea where the ‘milk’ reference comes from but, as it happens, I only use full fat milk myself. The other stuff is tasteless and, in any case, you need the fat in the milk to be able to assimilate the fat soluble vitamins it contains.
It turns out too that full fat dairy products reduce the risk of diabetes by about 20% – no such benefit associated to the skinny stuff.
Just remembered, Oskar – note to Rob the Chef – should have read ‘make them drink their full fat milk’.
@Lurky.
I agree with your assessment.
I also (as usual) agree with Cent.
I do not think you are in any way unreasonable to expect Ozil to be a top-quality performer and agree that he has this season been not as good as he can be. You are, again, right to point out that when he is performing at his best we will all see the difference.
Just because he cost a lot of money and is, undoubtedly, good at playing football does not mean we should forget he is a human being and make allowances/show understanding.
I never feel your analysis of him is overly harsh or personal. It is certainly not beyond the point of being constructive. And you have many times pointed out how much you wish to see him playing at his best in Arsenal red. Me too!
However, much criticism of Ozil is so far beyond constructive as to be useless (in the wider media, not necessarily here). I feel (and I could be wrong) that this is what Cent and others are trying to counterpoint.
Trev.
Full fat forever. Even if it’s French…
Have only back knurd to @37 byt noticed thr Özil discussion raising it’s ugly head again.
Özil is playing in an attack that is constantly changing personnel. His kind of game requires understanding of how and where those around him are going to move.
His running is non-stop – he is not lazy.
Neither is he the fastest sprinter, and in his ideal role he doesn’t need to be.
To get the best out of him he needs to be in his best position. That is not on the wing.
The idea of a squad is to be able to rotate. There is no need to see Ozil and Wilshere as an either/or. By alternating now and then, we may not even need to run either of them into the ground.
Don’t do a Podolski on him and write him off for not being an auxiliary left back.
here for me
is a bit like music fans
and bands
i never knew catalogue numbers
forgot which b-side belonged to what
sometimes the label
by sight on turntable
never saw it as important
but it was my records
people were lookin at
never knew stats
cept early 70s when
that was how you were a nutcase devotee fan
memorised results and transfers
ye saw a few minutes a week
on telly
unless ye were these shower of locals here
lucky enough to witness every fortnight
in the flesh
jammy bastards
anyhoo
have inadvertently cultivated a beard
am gonna
put it to the shear
tonights a clean faced fight
COME ON YOU ARSENAL
COME FUCKIN ON!!!!!
Fair enough Trev.
Some good posts between 37 and now. Let us know what you reckon when you’ve had time for a full knirdkcab.
And that lazy Podolski should certainly be able to play left-back…
@ cba
Last year Jonny and I went on holiday together as we are currently. I was sporting a pretty good beard at the time. He asked me once before we left to shave it all off but keep the moustache.
I like a bit of fun. Said yes. No need for prolonged persuasions (it wasn’t a debate about Ozil (wink)).
Looked like an unsavoury character all week. You all know the type…
Why not keep the moustache ’til our next win cba? It’s only a few hours away, right?
Lurky, trust me spotting the difference won’t be hard for me to do. I just don’t think his talent will be manifesting in the way/form you seem to be expecting anytime soon, my hope though is that in trying to meet these, unfair in my opinion, expectations he will take his game to the next level, Messi and Ronaldo level, and start scoring/assisting in every game and while at it maybe go a step further and post above average successful tackles/interceptions per game.
There’s some camaraderie with our opponents :
http://www.espnfc.com/uefa-champions-league/story/2037296/jurgen-klopp-of-borussia-dortmund-praises-arsenal-transfers-and-laughs-off-arsene-wenger-remarks
😀
g stunt
you and jonny are currently
on holiday last year ?
OSKAR!!!!!!!!!!!
porco
my “local”
size o fuck all
is 2 men layin down
be
1 and 3/4
or big doot
we’ve measured 🙂
theres no tv
and often nobody
wee bit down the road
is were i see the games
post three day camel ride
tis radio for me this evenin
done me knee
so roarin at the wireless
is me evenin
🙂
@cba.
Heh.
cheers uply
i’ll rearrange the furniture in me liver
on the off chance it’ll accept interlopers
and occasional stables
🙂
But I will wait Oskar’s adjudication…
@Lurky
“Why don’t you compare him, let’s say with Fabregas”
I didn’t compare Ozil with Fabregas because the point I was making was that there are other players in this division who cost virtually the same as the Fishgod, contribute far less to their teams and yet are spared the howls of derision from the media and fans.
In that context, he’d have been a pretty lousy example.
Likewise, comparing him to Mata (who cost vastly more than you’ve suggested above) or Sigurdsson isn’t particularly illuminating if you’re doing so on the basis of less than half a dozen games. As a regular lurker on Red Cafe I can tell you that Mata was on the verge of being dropped ahead of last week’s game and was regarded to be playing relatively poorly by Utd’s support. The stats don’t bear it out, but that’s what Utd fans were saying.
You keep asking people to be honest, but you don’t seem willing to accept that people might honestly hold a different opinion to your own. I think Ozil is playing reasonably well (albeit not at his best), and played reasonably well at the weekend. So do several others. We’re not pretending, we’re not scared that to admit he has flaws would somehow undermine the entire edifice of our love for Arsenal. We just see the game differently to you, is all. It happens.
Hopefully you’re right about this evening, although I’ve a funny feeling Ozil may be given a rest so that Santi can get some game time.
charade over
i’m a journalist
and all round bastard
well
thats a lie
i’m a tall slim bastard
no they weren’t
they were married
anyway
thank you
for letting me lie to you
all these years
in vertical rubbish
C
H
E
E
R
I
O
.
🙂
Come on Arsenal!
Just about to leave from work stop on the way for some beers and straight home. Dinner and waiting time for the game!
I honestly believe Ozil is out of form at the moment his misplaced passes were frankly awful for his standards. You can forget his defensive flaws however few moments of his magic and we all forget he doesn’t track back etc. He’s not a defensive minded player he tries but it doesn’t really work out for him.
I do rate him and I hope his rough patch doesn’t last too long!
Excited at the prospect of this evening’s match.
However, I am rather disturbed at the total lack of support for cba’s exciting offer @60 above. Surely I’m not alone in thinking that an entire piece by the esteemed Mr Arsed would, indeed, be something to behold. Since I am do not tweet I am unsure how to start a campaign to try to bring about this hugely desirable event; I await correction, but it may be appropriate to finish this drink with
#signupcba
as if
MOOOOO!!!!!!!!
or
is it
!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOM
@87
#signupcba
Cent – interesting link at 23.
Evidently Oezil does a lot with the ball and without the ball. Reminds me of Fabregas in that he’s thinking ahead. Looks like he knows what he’s gonna do with the ball before he gets it, and knows (usually) where/to whom he’s gonna play the ball once he gets it. A bit Bergkampian, if I may be so bold.
And it strikes me that once he plays the ball to Wilshere, or Ramsey, or Cazorla, or Arteta, or Welbeck (on Sat.), they have no idea what to do with it and the move often breaks down. Ostensibly then, the problem isn’t Oezil, its that few others are at his level. Though .. Alexis seems to be on that wavelength. And I hope/believe this combination will bear goals and faster/more fluid attacking. Needs time.
Yes, you have idiots like Robbie Savage who complain that “he lacks passion” or he “lacks that cutting edge.” What?…just b/c he’s not chirping at the referee all match; gesturing wildly; or putting in “a reducer” to the likes of Kompany or Zabaleta he lacks “passion?” Or he “needs to run around a bit more” – despite statistics showing he covers as much ground as anyone. Absurd … Savage and his ilk are morons and that sort of criticism should be ignored.
Any way, hoping Arsenal rises to the occasion tonight – no matter who plays.
@Homer
You always put an ‘e’ in Ozil’s name. Why?
The rest of the post is spot on.
I suppose its because of the lack of umlaut on Homers keyboard since Özil is kinda pronounced like “Oezil” ..also I have seen that being used as substitute to umlaut in tv few times aswell.
GSD and Eandy – you totally caught me being lazy and umlaut deficit.
And, I must admit, that I learned the “oe” = “o” with umlaut in this very bar. Who says you drinking isn’t a productive activity?
Fair enough EEandy.
Sorry. I’ve got no accent on my computer either. wink.
@94
I don’t know who says drinking is not productive. But they are wrong.
Eandy- I have seen Oezil as a spelling on TV and have found it weird as well.
I could spend a lot of time pontificating on my disgust at the attempts at pronouncing foreign players’ names that PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL COMMENTATORS find acceptable. I won’t bother- we can all hear what they say.
But it makes me sad and, as an Englishman, deeply ashamed.
Even online these misnomers are proliferated.
Gnarby? Screw it- he’s foreign. That’s all good, right?
my éditör is gonna love zis
cba
Golddust!
EFF OFF
I’M NUTTIN ONE IN THE BOX
WHO’S DOUBLE NUTTIN IT HOME?
Me?
very very attacking line up
Arsenal: Szczesny, Bellerin, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Gibbs, Arteta, Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Alexis, Welbeck.
Subs: Ospina, Chambers, Rosicky, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Cazorla, Podolski, Campbell
this one might be a cracker
Bellerin starts and we have a very strong line- up and a strong bench leaving aside the fact our only defender on the bench has tonsillitis. Let’s just wish Mesut a great evening tonight.Its a big stage and we need him and the rest of the lads to play to their utmost. No time for discord and 100% support. Let’s hope the post match drinks are as joyful as last year for the same match.
Cheers for the preview ‘holic.
Only one thing to add……
COME ON YOU GUNNERS!!!
Loving Bellerin starting. AW knows.
Welbeck scores. Ramsey Scores. Wilshere scores. Rip ’em to shreds!!!
There is no way I can properly goof off at work without a feed….
Eandy, you have a link to a decent stream?
I’ll beg if need be.
XD here you go Homer:) http://www.wiziwig.tv/broadcast.php?matchid=277315&part=sports
Come on Arsenal!!!
Do us proud lads!
Come on Arsenal!
Come On! Up The Arse!
😀
Would have preferred 4-2-3-1 with double pivot for a visiting game, but it is Arsene’s choice
I wrote a short (by my standards 😉 ) drink about the Man City game from my seat in the North Bank Upper, the crappy refereeing, how it felt like both a point gained & two dropped at the same time due to the nature of the game, how I thought Jack was MOTM just slightly over Alexis but my phone conceived to take it from me :p
But kick off has passed, and what’s important now is that the lads account themselves well vs Dortmund, and that the team accommodates for any defensive deficiencies in Bellerin’s game.
Come on Arsenal!
Come on lads give it back to them
Cheat!
I like this Ref already!
Ozils second mistake come on lad!!!!
Coooome oooonnnnn
me likie alexis.
scruz what a work rate
Come on lads dont give up!
arthur, he’s got great feet, great vision, great workrate. doesn’t ever shirk his duties. brings top class to our team. i can’t imagine how much he’s raising the game of the rest during practices, etc. this team will go far with him, and will seriously gel as the season progresses.
glad they didn’t score there.
COme on.. settle down already!!
Volley ball!!
nice decision, ref.
almost in on the break. recycling.
We need to calm this game down!!!!!!!!!!!!!
their number ten has a balance problem.
Looks like the same BVB side: press like mad for 60 mins and score so many goals the other side cannot catch up.
They will be out of gas my the 63rd minute. If we can hang on and maybe get a goal ….
That’s what Alexis is going to do for real the next time!
and since when are BVB such divers?
boy the dortmunders certainly go down with very little incentive. and arteta got the ball there. fucking hell.
Diving bloody …….!
We should win this.. they can’t maintain their form over 90mins… our counters will do ’em in!
Come On!
Come on Arsenal!Come on Arsenal!Come on Arsenal!
chezza!
What a save from Wojtek come on!
that was for abc1163, i think. 🙂
whew!
C-mon boys. Get it together.
Danny so close
great run by gibbo. damn.
Welbeck.. Come On!
That was close!
that was an awesome run
Great from Woj
aaron, what was that? and alexis, fucking brilliant tracking back, and chezza for the save. NO MORE.
We need to get a grip on this game come on lads!!!!!!!!!
a goal against the run of play!
wow.
stats-wise, looks like we’re getting pummeled. Sorta looks that way….
they’re on the front foot, but we’re being pretty resilient. chezza keeping us in the game, too.
Midfield functioning as efficiently as George Best’s liver.
They cant play the game at this tempo for 90 min come on
cynic, long as he lasted, i’d have to say it functioned pretty well.
ooooooh, so close.
DDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYY
Ohhhhhhhhh Dannnnnnnnnnyyy…!
Shoulda scored that.
curious to see how many misses like that (and the chip against oil citeh) danny’s allowed before the knives come out.
DW – need to put that chance away.
scrus he needs to score the one the rest will follow in me eyes
srcus= scruz apologies
Scruz – not too many I’d say.
Bellerin is getting WAY up field. Wondering how smart that is with the pace of Immobile and BVB’s counterattacking generally.
FAK FAK FAKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
shit.
fuck.
well, fuck.
ARGH!
I think some bollocking is order at ht
Can we have a change please? Can we put a footballer on the pitch where Ozil is?
right at the end of the half too.
FUCK!!!
Going to be tough now… was hoping to keep a clean sheet till half time!
That was god awful defending
Rubbish defending plus they had a bit of luck.. ball did bounce back to their striker.
Still we should get back in there in the 2nd half… whatever happened to Rosicky? is he on the bench?
We play with 10 men.
Sloppy half, we were totally outplayed.
Thought we were gonna get away with it big time, but conceded a sloppy and unnecaessary goal on the stroke of HT.
If it wasn’t for Woj this game would of been beyond our reach already.
Must do better in the second half.
The advantage of the BVB having to press hi/fast all game until they tire is now gone. Now Arsenal has to force the issue, opening up even more to the counter.
Tactically, what now AW? He needs to make a change.
Cynic – none of our players is covering himself in glory, the Dortmunds pressing is immense and they are simply not giving our players any time on the pitch.
Immobile got quite lucky with the ball bouncing back straight to his path but what a run and what a stupid goal to concede from our throw deep in their half minute before HT..gonna be very very tough now.
Dortmund hasn’t kept a clean sheet here for a long time.. we should be able to get back in.. they’ll tire and their formation which to their credit is very good, should be less cohesive later in the game!
Be satisfied with a draw here, over the moon if we win this.
AW needs to make a change.
But what?
Arsene is really persistent with some of his ideas. Wonder how long it is going to take for him to realize that is better to start playing with double pivot in a 4-2-3-1, just like we played last season and not this seasons 4-1-2-3.
Also wonder how long and how many points lost until he either starts Ozil in the middle or doesn’t start him at all.
sloppy goal to concede and it wasn’t Bellerini it was Gibbo side home we can calm the game it hasnt been calm in any way
Our midfield has been dominated by a higher tempo and strong pressing and no one has been good enough to resist them. We really have to step up in the second half. We need more power I midfield to shield the back four. Let’s hope their pace drops in the second half. At this moment a draw would be womderful
When we play a long ball there is no one in the middle to claim same old bloody story there is too much of a gap there too we need to push up when we hoof it!
In my eyes it could have been worse Wojtek has kept us in it so far players need to take a fucking account
another fucking silly goal!!!!!!!!
Get back in your fucking goal ffs
that was not even a proper counter
Sloppy..
no way back now
well we are well and truly fucked
damage limitation from now on..oh well, always was going to be tough match-up.
Woj
We did not take this game to them
Fuck sake they are asleep`
WTF is sticking out of Bellerin’s arse?
Exactly the same problems we had in England last season against the top sides . We have done. Itching in tactical terms or in personnel to address it
Why so much negativity?
I thought we were better than them. I would’ve guessed us as the home team.
Very lucky goal. If luck was with us then we could be winning this.
Cynic@166 I could not disagree more strongly with both the point you make and the attitude behind it. Ozil is not a footballer? I generally like the spirit of your comments and agree with them sometimes…
But Ozil is not a footballer?
There are so many better ways to express your unhappiness at his performance.
What you wrote was way too far. In my eyes, at least.
It sucks when I listen to top Arsenal fans have a go at our players…
Time for Rosicky and Cazorla or wait for an annual 79 minute sub and couple more goals in our net, Arsene?
Ozil yellow card. Another prove that he actually plays
thought i’d post it even after we conceded.
We can win this.
we have look weak and without ideas
I wanna say that there is lots of time left to get back into this match.
But it looks like we were never in it.
We’ve no luck…
If we don’t back our team then who will?
We can win this….
Do we have a Midfield to break down their attack?
GSD.
Like your positive attitude, but no way have we been in any stretch of the imagination the better team.
Ox for Ozil
about time oezil came off.
he needs to … something.
GST, what game are you watching? Arsenal? Seriously? And we play better then Dortmund? What has this place turned into …
Come on Arsene, make some change damn it. FINALLY Chambo is on.
Ches save a few shots, but he is at fault for the two goals
Just look at Alexis… fighting for his life there!
Come On!
Another game away to a decent side and I’m left wondering what arteta offers this side?
too static
abc.
technically, the keeper is always at fault when the ball ends up in his net.
but your tirade against Woj. as become a little tired. seriously, at least give until after the match until you start calling him crap.
And not a mention of the what, 4 really good saves in the first half? loving the balanced commentary. (that’s sarcasm.)
why the fuck do we paly it backwards no more ideas?????????
@ Lurky 205
What has this place turned into?
I get ridiculed for thinking we were good. And there was no way for you to disagree without taking the piss.
And it is GSD. Not hard.
How come this game is lasting 180 minutes instead of good, old 90 like any other?
fact is we are being taught a lesson here
This is rancid
Horror show
Question is, ATG – why must we continually be taught the SAME lesson?
I offer an apology if I offended you GSD. Havent seen us playing this bad in a while and you keep saying we play better then them
ATG you are right.
We are being spanked. And Dortmund even is missing like 4 first team players.
This is frustrating. AW totally outthought here. The players look flat. No only MO, but many others.
Let’s not turn on each other here. I think in a pub face to face, its stays civil. Easy to be rude on the Internets forum. Let’s not go there.
abc, my apologies for being rude to you just now. Let’s keep it positive.
This is sick no rancid I wish I had words to describe it
Homer,
I also mentioned he did save a few. But even manone can save three of them,.
Maybe we should concentrate less on getting ‘top quality’ players and focus more on drilling the positions/formations into the team. Dortmund seem to be positionally effective despite losing a few of their key players!
COme on! Get back in there!
Said it once as I thought with a bit of luck first half might have gone a different way.
Second half has been a struggle.
Cheers Lurky. Top gooner.
Trying to think of any positives to take from this match.. That we didn’t get humiliated 6-0, perhaps?
Lonestar beacuse the same tactic is being introduced every time!
Where is Podolski and where is Rosicky ???????????
We win the fa cup for a reason. We had another gkin goal then.
And a drink on the bar for Lurky…
But maybe for everyone?…..
Arsenal never had control of midfield.
BVB packed it tight. Look at their formation. Force us out and around – b/c everyone knows we’ve no speed or width. Seems simple, really. Like a big yellow road block.
And then counter as fast as possible. None of this BS triangles and one-twos.
AW did nothing to adjust. Just same old.
Poor all around from the manager and from the players.
DW – two chances spurned. I think his honeymoon is nearly over.
And methinks City on Sat. took a big physical toll.
Ah.. so jack is also injured now… 🙁
Cheers GSD
Great recovery Chambo, maybe he is the solution in the DM position?
no nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooo
fuckiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinggggggggggggggggggggggggg
ideeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
abc
If all your posts reference the fact that you don’t like Schezza forgive me if I stop reading them.
I quite like the original opinions offered in this bar. But repetitive dogma does not do it for me.
And saying he is crap won’t make him any better- unless I have misunderstood the way this works…
just look it pains to watch
That is exactly my point, ATG. I’ll go no further because months ago I bowed at Wenger’s throne…but questions, once again, are beginning to bubble.
Chill out, abc.
Why every team looks like they are bigger, faster and more prepared then we are?
lads
come down its all good
Poldi … really we have no luck here!
for me this game is a complete joke we look like idiots waiting to get abused by the English media !
Did want to see Rosicky on.. wonder why he’s out of favour.. 🙁
yet again
well, that was painful, too many players not up to speed and Dormund did what they do best.
No TR7. Apparently Poldi couldn’t locate his shin guards quickly enough!!…WTF?
Considering it could’ve easily been 6 or 7-0, 2-0 doesn’t feel so bad. But Arsenal was dominated. Front to back, tip to toe.
AW has to take a lot of the heat on this one.
@239
Personally I have other concerns after watching this game
For me the English Media are not my main worry,
Well at least now we can stop saying that we are unbeaten.
Cheers all.
Back to work.
if it wasnt for our shaky defence we could have been 12:0
Poo
Took an absolute thumping here from an injury riddled, under strength side. Safe to say we learnt nothing from last years savage humpings?
our midfield was not existent we have no leader in there just a bunch of talented boys when deployed i n the right manner tehn maybe it will work
Oh wait. On the bright side, Bellerin did look quite the player.
A few positional eff ups, but he may in fact be ready for prime time.
they fucked us in the arse without the vaselin
homer it wasnt Bellerin
team dont click
thats it for me for the night, will take some time to recover from that.
for me it was a real lesson which I hope Arsene will take to his heart
Sometimes you just have to stand up and applaud your opponent.
we got our arses handed to us this evening and we were out fought, out thought and outplayed.
Well done Dortmund.
we were OUTPLAYED in every corner funny thing is what happpened to the City show?@?????????????
Villa away is looking to be tough.. have to raise our game there!
Worst match we’ve played yet this season if i may say so, although with a little luck Welbeck could have had two.
Still that’s only peppering over the cracks. The team is not communicating/gelling fast enough, wonder if it’s a fitness or personnel issue, either ways it’s for Arsene to find out and rectify.
The lack of depth and the quality of replacements are telling at this level of competition.
Well it’s done and over, get working for the next match!
😀
@233
I don’t think you can improve Denilson or bendtner by muting our criticism. And don’t think our opinion is so important, our manager will only stick with his own assessment of his player.
Just wenger think he is good, I think he is good, but not enough. Only out trophy cabinet will tell who is right.
too right H2H
BB
The best thing is to ignore the fact how much they get paid!!!!!!!!!
We are better than Spuds. Swansea, Villa, Southampton, West Ham, Hull, Everton and the rest. There is a long list I have not referenced.
When did losing to Borussia Dortmund away suddenly make us a poor football side?
If we did lose the match, fair and square, are we rubbish? The animosity towards us as a team seems over the top in my eyes.
We have not won a football match against a top side. I won’t crucify us for not being perfect.
I wish we were- but it hasn’t happened yet.
Mind you, we did have the Invincibles…
BB
How about stop their wages fora week??
Oh.
Looked like Bellerin started at right back. No? Gibbs then?
I’m sure it was Hector Bellerin. Even saw that killer coif he has. No, no, I’m sure of it. He looks like hes ready. As if there is any other choice, I might add.
Was this another hiding due to AFC having no one athletic enough to break up play in front of our back 4? Or just that we got stuffed by a better side with better tactics, or, as they say, an actual game plan?
Anyway, I really need to get back to work.
Cheers all.
GSD
Nothing to add 🙂
@260. Second fullest trophy cabinet in England currently. Enough said. We played poorly. Get over it. Teams lose games. It happens.
What. A. Shambles.
Easily the worst we have played in a very long time.
Welbeck guilty of missing a couple of gilt edged chances but to single him out for special critisism would be grossly unfair considering the total dross all around him.
(I honestly dont see him as a 25 goals a season,title deciding signing,but,of course, would love to be proved wrong)
Arteta!!! WTF!!
Perhaps only LJW comes out of this one smelling of roses (and even then with faint overtones of dog shit).
Podolski starring in The Case Of The Missing Shinguard was the kind of comic genius I dont like to see associated with Arsenal.
Overall, piss poor – lets put it down to a bad day at the office and hope thats all it was.
If we play like that against Chelsea though, it’ll be carnage.
@ATG
Yes it is at times perplexing why we have not gelled yet as a team, i do wonder if it’s a fitness issue, as we certainly do have quality players in all the key positions when you look at it.
If that does not get sorted out and we don’t come together as a team, methinks our challenge will fizzle out rather quickly this season.
We were god awful tonight.
We need to go back to 4231 and stop playing people out of position. That means one of jack and Ramsey goes to the bench.
We need to stop playing such a high line.
We need a DM at the earliest.
We need to respect the fact that Dortmund are a very good side and played us to an absolute tee.
Onwards and upwards.
COYG
I am waiting for all of us to agree once again that Ozil had a good game, and that it is all just a media conspiracy that he is having a bed season, then go to bed just like in all good fairytales.
Apologies for my silly input towards this game!
We were shown how to play a game of football, from the first whistle we were second best and Dortmund without their basic players looked like an easy outing as I have thought my self. However they showed yet again how to be committed and play for their life’s! it pains me to say but we will never be a big club if we play the same old shit!
I’ve stopped reading your posts, Lurky. Very tiresome and repetitive I’m afraid.
No disrespect to Arsene but he will not take us further
@260
Forget who is right.
I would’ve been bored if all your posts three years ago we about how Bendtner or Denilson were crap.
I do not expect you to mute your criticism. But saying it multiple times won’t make it any more or less valid.
Every post. Always.
If I were the arbiter (or anyone cared I) would ask you to give it a rest. But I admit I know nothing,
As to the suggestion that I think my ramblings in this top bar might affect Wenger’s decisions- well, it seems unlikely but I’ll let others make their own minds up…
but that was certainly neither my hope nor my expectatioin.
Inept. Very few (if any?) positives to draw from that performance.
What saddens me is the fact that we conceded right before half-time and immediately after the re-start. We were beaten all over the pitch and there were some pretty dismal individual performances on show tonight — no need to mention names.
I will say one thing however: I’m not entirely certain why some players can seem to do no wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence. For me, Arshavin did a whole heap more deserving of our praise in his first year than Ozil has achieved thus far.
I think Ozil is a fantastic, world class player, but in big games where we have been trounced, he’s been anonymous. Arshavin would have been slaughtered for the same kind of performances.
I support Arsenal as much as the next man at this bar, but it’s getting tiresome to see how any minor critique of his performance is greeted at the bar with an unyielding defence of his reputation. He may have been the best assister in Europe for the 5-years leading up to his transfer to Arsenal, but he’s clearly not performing to the same level this season, nor the previous.
I’m gutted that our biggest ever signing is not cutting it at the moment. I’m routing for him and I hope he pulls it out the bag, but he’s struggling and he needs the manager to help him through this patch.
Let’s just hope that Arsene can do that, because he couldn’t with it Arshavin…
Whatever pleasures you BTM.
same old story
we are no different from the other seasons
this is a repeat
@Lurky
Every single one of the outfield players was piss poor tonight. If you’re still banging on about Ozil then I’d say you’re in danger of missing the big picture here.
yet agais
and yet again
and yet again how many times do we have to live through the same?
@ Lurky
Don’t think it’s fair to say only Ozil had a bad game, think the whole team achieved that today. It may have to do with player positioning like N7 alluded to although I think it’s has something to do with fitness too, noticed we weren’t closing them down and they were comfortable running around the whole 90mins.
We’re set up as a very good attacking side now but defensively lacking.(Maybe not only in personnel but cohesiveness too!)
Should have stayed behind the sofa.
Completely over run in MF. Tonight really showed how much we need a strong, athletic DMF.
The boys gave everything on Saturday. It looked as though they hadn’t recovered sufficiently to put in the same performance tonight.
Not a happy night, let’s hope they are up for it at Villa.
Off to Croatia on Thurs, I’ve got to find a bar on Brac to see the game. Can anyone Help!
kind of gets boring after 8 seasons
@274
Disrespect is implied.
And I disagree.
Ozil was abysmal but nobody was any good. It was levels of dross, if you want to mark people. So Ozil would get 9/10 on the dross scale and everybody else rated 7 or 8. Welbeck an 8.5
Still… Villa to come in the competition that matters. Need a win.
and these international players we have? For me its a game lost
I think it’s time for Wenger to decide how to play Ozil. If he wants him in the no 10 role, then Wilshire has to be benched vice versa. He has to have a balanced team out there.
How do this same team go from almost beating city to playing like shit
@287
Be bored then. Or do something else if you so wish.
We will win and lose matches. Personally I find even our 2-0 losses exciting.
But I don’t watch Arsenal in my own free time and complain about being bored.
If I did I would stop watching.
San An.
Too little time to recover and a trip to Germany!?
BB, where exactly I said that only Ozil had a bad game?
As for a player positioning and playing 4-2-3-1, like N7 alluded after the match, guess what…
-before the game even started
111Lurky
Would have preferred 4-2-3-1 with double pivot for a visiting game, but it is Arsene’s choice”
-at halftime
177Lurky
Arsene is really persistent with some of his ideas. Wonder how long it is going to take for him to realize that is better to start playing with double pivot in a 4-2-3-1, just like we played last season and not this seasons 4-1-2-3.
Also wonder how long and how many points lost until he either starts Ozil in the middle or doesn’t start him at all.
We were shit, but let’s not lose perspective here. Tough game that gets easy when you second guess it, but it isn’t played like that. If we’d taken even a point here we could have strolled the group. Turns out we re in a fight, so let’s get up for it. 3 of the next 4 at home and the away is in Belgium, it’s all in our hands.
Arsene has a couple of big days to decide where to go from here. He’s relied on the same players and neglected the squad this far. With all the turnover of the window and disruption of the World Cup I can see him wanting to play us in to form, but we need results now. We can’t neglect our squad for the name players. Villa away is a huge game, we just can’t afford to drop more points. With our fixtures befit the next break, Saturday is a must win. No more “ooooh, well, isn’t it nice to be here in perspective, we can’t be perfect” fanny. We need 3 points.
No point having a squad if you dont use it.
Already looking fucking dim not getting a proper holding player so we can shore things up away. Idiocy leaving the two centre backs and jimmy no legs left alone in defence tonight.
This squad need to show some balls Saturday and get us back on track. Don’t imagine it will be pretty, but I fancy them to get it done.
Poonward
We had a bad game tonight. I suppose there will be some more bad games this season. But who cares…others will also have bad games… Dortmund included. We need to show our true potential against Villa and I am sure we will do exactly that. I don’t really understand some reactions here. It is easy to be a supporter when we are winning. I am also in pain…but I am not going to slack anyone. We have been through much worse…this is not even a crisis. This team is good and this team will bring a lot of joy to all of us. Please, mark my words for that.
I think some perspective is needed. We just lost 2-0 in the opening game of a tricky group we should still get out of, to a team who 15 months ago were a whisker from winning the Champions League. Sure, 2-0 was a fair scoreline, but football is a game of fine margins, and if Welbeck had nabbed that goal just prior to Immobile’s it would have been a different game….
My sober reflections are:
1) Bellerin was ok. He won’t be playing teams of the calibre of Dortmund each week, and I think in conjunction with Chambers, they can lock the RB position down till Debuchy’s return.
2) No injuries.
3) Probably at the top, top level (i.e. the difference between 1st and 3rd in the EPL, or last 16 and last 4 in the Champions Lge), we’re lacking real physical authority in midfield. But you tell me a cast-iron player available, who would come to Arsenal, and who would definitively improve on Arteta (I can think of Pogba, but we’re talking fantasy buy now)…
4) Mertesacker is on the wain.
5) Wenger should only play 2 from Ozil, Wilshere & Ramsey in those two advanced CM positions ahead of Arteta, and he needs to let proper wide-men (Sanchez, Walcott, Oz, Cazorla) flank Welbeck up-front. Ozil is not an especially effective right-winger, and it smacks of Wenger trying to accommodate players, rather than picking the best team to suit the formation.
6) It’s imperative we now beat Villa in terms of momentum/morale. 9 points from 5 games would still represent a good return in the lge, we can then rest the first-teamers v So’ton, and come back fresh for that big run of games v Spurs, Galatasaray and Chelski pre-Interlull 2.
H2h
yer right
ass handed to us
i’m same vintatge as
im guessin
you a.nd many here
over 4 decades proud gooner
born 60s
i talk shite here but
i know i will never have to prove
GOONERDOM
fuckin yes
never been a smartarse
never been a ron the manager
i’ve been one of the above
ask
a jamie which!
I have to stop takin
the piss outta me
i don’t deserve it
294 – c’mon. The champions league is played on Tuesday night since arsene arrived. If we can’t deal with home early Saturday away Tuesday with our squad we may as well withdraw. We lacked fight and the brains needed to know we were in a fight and respond. No one but ourselves to blame. Scheduling is a cop out.
Bleep
el p
you stole my 3 lump
you
are a bad perso.
etc
fuck
ars
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Agree with H2H- Dortmund were excellent and Klopp set the team up and motivated them exceptionally well. We were so far second best it was embarrassing. Emotions run high after that.
There were some very laudable expressions of support for Ozil before the game but sometime he has to have a game where he lifts the side . We can’t always be saying he is brilliant but we just don’t appreciate him. It was right that he and Ramsey who has been excruciatingly bad this season were substituted.
Wenger needs to accept that we need a double pivot in midfield. We can’t keep teams off us and I think we might get turned over by the better teams just like we were last season. I felt so sorry for Bellerin. He struggled in a team where he received little protection but it was wrong to expose him. Dortmund had injuries all over the team but their squad looked stronger, their method more ingrained and their tempo way higher than we could manage. I’m not sure Wenger ever learns from the times when we get turned over and this creates the sort of dissension we see in a strongly supportive site like this.
But there is a difference between strongly supportive and blind to our faults. I can’t honestly see that this squad which is wafer thin in places either in terms of number or quality can challenge for anything other than the cups.
If I were picking the team on Saturday I think I would rest Ozil and Ramsey and try to find a place for Rosicky. We need drive, tempo and desire and players that supply that. You can’t change the defence because we haven’t got anyone to bring in other than a 19 year old with a handful of games and whoever we play in defensive midfield will be the best of a bad job.But we should still beat Villa. They are nowhere near the quality of Dortmund.
El Puno @ 296: I understand the theory behind minimizing rotation to keep a stable core that can play our telepathic football with least disruption — but sometimes it feels Arsene takes that approach to beyond its logical extreme.
Are TR7 and Cazorla so much of a drop in quality and ability to play our style that they couldn’t have started today in place of two midfielders who had a bit of off day over the weekend in Rambo and Ozil? TR7 is perfectly suited for high-tempo games and I would say even at this ripe old age he is the best pressing midfielder we have and would have offered a real support for Alexis in the second half. And he can pass as well as anyone in this team except Ozil at his best.
We were pressed to the milliseconds of receiving passes and we needed someone who can really wiggle out of small spaces and has fabulous close control, wouldn’t Santi have offered a more suitable alternative at the start of the second half?
What is the point of having a deep squad if we are not to use it unless being forced by injury?
Dortmund had nearly the half of their starting line-up missing but the replacements had no problem playing their inimitable style. That was not a that talented — at least on paper — Dortmund side but they just did everything with a higher degree of concentration and athleticism.
I think poor reactions are part and parcel of the game. We’ve lost many games and yet I’ve been proud (losing against Man City after Kos was sent off comes to mind). But, tonight was not one of those games.
We were shite. You can’t polish a turd. And I can’t pretend that was anything other than it was.
I agree with you BG #297 — it was a bad game. There will be better games than that, but hopefully no worse!
Gregorie #298: Agree about the Villa game — but, we need to win it if we have any serious aspirations about challenging this season
Total shambolic Arse Farce today. The arse were totally outplayed by the Germans who ripped Wenger and his team a brand new arse.
Blame it on Wenger. He didn’t upgrade the weakest part of the team: holding MF. Art eat had a nightmare but he’ll have many more. His legs are shot.
Blame it on Wenger. He left the squad with only six experienced defenders for four defensive positions. Well done, Monsieur Wenger.
New season. Same old Arsenal. Arse Farce.
Wagner out!
Totally shambolic Arse Farce today. The arse were totally outplayed by the Germans who ripped Wenger and his team a brand new arse.
Blame it on Wenger. He didn’t upgrade the weakest part of the team: holding MF. Arteta had a nightmare but he’ll have many more. His legs are shot.
Blame it on Wenger. He left the squad with only six experienced defenders for four defensive positions. Well done, Monsieur Wenger.
New season. Same old Arsenal. Arse Farce.
Wagner out!
A very, very poor and sloppy performance and I have to say, I’m not surprised even though Dortmund had injuries a plenty with their top top stars.
Here are the problems with our side:
1. Only one player with pace in the middle triangle consisting oft he deep-lying ball playing midfielder (Arteta, who’s legs have gone and was never a DM) and the two central defenders (Kos & Mertesaker). As I’ve previously said, I do not in any way like Mertesaker as one of the central defensive partners of of Kos in the big games as he’s far too slow and lacks any form of recovery when he anticipates wrongly against world-class players. With Arteta in the triangle, and Flamini to a lesser extent whose legs have also gone to some extent, it’s suicide when you’re playing against an awesome, pressing and counter-attacking team like Dortmund. It’s painful watching.
2. The full-backs never ever recover well enough when they both go forward together and when the ball is quickly lost.
3. We have far too many creative players in the side in midfield and not enough grafters to support them and let them express themselves. That leaves us open to lack of responsibility when you need to sit and grind away the pressure.
Unless these combined and repetitive issues are addressed, we’ll beat most teams but won’t consistently beat the great teams when it really matters.
Ozil has to play in the number ten position in this side to allow him to be freely creative as he’s our most sublimely talented player by a mile. HE IS THE BEST NUMBER 10 IN THE WORLD; even Maureen said so at Madrid! He played well for Germany on the left wing in the World Cup because his defensive responsibilities were well shared amongst the other midfielders behind him and his full-back but for us, he MUST PLAY CENTRALLY behind Welbeck.
Onwards and upwards but serious man-management and formation issues which have to honestly be addressed. Defensively very, very poor and to put Bellerin in such a match probably wasn’t the best decision. Confidence may have been hit somewhat after the high of Benfica so Flamini should have been played at right-back.
COYBG!
MATT 2
WHERE WHERE YOU DURING THE GAME?
WE WERE BEATEN FAIR AND SQUARE
LOVE YOU TOO 🙂
Wenger is just too stuborn, when it comes to tactics.I respect the guy, but how in the world is ozil still playing wide. Plain stuborness, simple as that.