The Final Countdown Starts Here – But Only Just
Apr 19th, 2015 by 'holic
The full Wembley experience, warts and all, ended well, but what a meal Arsenal made of their Championship opponents. The tone was set by a bus replacement service followed by a less than salubrious rattler into Paddington packed with exuberant Reading supporters. The tube whisked me to the next port of call. A fabulous Fullers pub where Guinness and HSB washed down a scrumptious fish finger sandwich. The sun was out, the company great. This would be a good day, yes?
Well, actually Wembley isn’t geared up to handle the number of people it was built to accommodate. Arriving half an hour before kick-off we faced the sort of queues we never experienced at Cardiff, or indeed at our own luxurious abode when turning up even later. Mercifully we ascended to the fifth tier without the aid of sherpas just in time for the start. On the way up it was evident that Wembley have not heeded the warnings about their deafening tannoy system, an atmosphere killer in those pre-match minutes.
The Arsenal team selection was something of a surprise. We knew that Wojciech Szczesny would start as the cup tie ‘keeper, but the absence of the in-form Bellerin and Monreal ahead of him baffled, as did Giroud making way for Danny Welbeck up front. Don’t get me wrong, Danny is a fine player with good qualities, but a leader of the line he is not. We had to change a winning formula to accommodate his desire to forage on the flanks, and our attack was denied options as a result.
Reading, free from the pressure of ensuring Championship survival, chased everything that moved and had a robustness that was encouraged by some very lenient officiating. One cannot blame them for that. This was their day in the sunshine and they were determined not to be rolled over. Chances were few and far between, mainly snap shots around the edge of the box, but from a corner Per Mertesacker brought out the best of Federici in the Royals goal.
Six minutes before half-time we finally broke the deadlock. Ozil, a beacon of class in a crowded midfield, picked out the run of Alexis, and the PFA Player of the Year nominee nutmegged Federici. Around 34,000 Gunners, already in good voice, erupted. Surely the floodgates would open now? Arsenal being Arsenal, they didn’t!
Reading didn’t allow themselves to be distracted from their vigorous pursuit of an unlikely shock, and made all things possible nine minutes after the break. McCleary’s shot took a deflection off Kieran Gibbs but Szczesny at his near post should have done better than help the ball over the line before a desperate attempt to claw it back. All square again.
One of many truly nasty challenges meant Per Mertesacker had to be withdrawn from the contest just after the hour. Gabriel slotted in seamlessly. What an excellent signing he is. Reading grew in confidence and finally Arsene sent on Olivier Giroud to give us an outlet, a pressure release valve if you will, up front. We were back on the front foot again, but unable to fashion a winner in normal time, Aaron Ramsey coming closest but hitting the post when it seemed a winner was inevitable.
The inevitable was only delayed, however. Once again Ozil freed Alexis with a sublime pass and the Chilean cut inside, took a snapshot, and watched on as Federici allowed the ball to squirm from his grasp and over the line. Lady Luck had bestowed her favours on Arsenal, for sure. Giroud struck the same post as Ramsey in the closing stages as Reading wilted.
Theo Walcott, on for Coquelin, seemed happy to spend much of the remainder covering the space ahead of Debuchy, but when he was freed to run at the Royals defence at the death there were those who saw the challenge that upended him as inside the box. From level five I couldn’t be sure. The free-kick that followed was the last action of the match and we were through to our second consecutive Final. The result was far more important than the performance, but the message to Arsene was clear. Go with our best team in that Final please.
There followed the interminable queues to escape the environs of the stadium. Thanks to the neighbour and Gill for persuading me to take the overground route to Marylebone. The train back out west was an interesting blend of supporters who had experienced mixed results in the capital. Sixteen hours after leaving home I was back, smiling at the prospect of another Cup Final triumph for the Gunners.
141 Responses to “The Final Countdown Starts Here – But Only Just”
GREAT RESULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice summary sir – I was lucky enough to be down in the lower area, row 12, but the tannoy is equally irritating from virtually beside the pitch (FYI Wembley/FA idiot suits).
Thought Gabriel was excellent when he came on, could (should?) have scored and made some towering headers.
The game should have been much less tense, did AW tinker too much with the starting XI?
We made a meal of it, but the result is all that matters.
Now, Holic, remember last year, how we found that rocking horse shit?
Cheers H! Was fucking rocking by the time I got in The Swan last night.
Nice one, ‘Holic. “The result was more important than the performance” says it all.
Let’s pray lightning can strike twice Dr z. The odds are about the same.
I like where we are in the league table, I like where we have come in the FA cup, generally I like we are at. Good win, good run, hope it continues.
I hope you had your opera glasses with you yesterday.
Excellent report, excellent result. Less impressive than we have been of late but I’ll take ten straight wins anytime, particularly when there’s a Cup Final berth at the end of the tenth.
I suspect Debuchy may have been selected yesterday with next week’s game against Chelski in mind. Arsene will be hoping to counter their most potent threat, Hazard, with our most experienced RB. Debuchy’s rustiness has probably ruled him out of that encounter although he may have the opportunity to watch Moaninho park the bus at close quarters from a vantage point on the bench.
Where to start with another shambolic Wembley display against inferior oppoents. It is great we are through to another cup final, of cours that goes without saying. But, surely against such feeble opposition the manner of victory has to be given due consideration.
Some points of assessment: Wenger made too many changes to the starting 11 and considering the schedule is only one match a week currently, there was no reason to change so many. Secondly, there is good debate over how many signings we need to make come the summer. For me a striker is required (though granted, not a pressing as another defender, holding midfielder and keeper) as when Giroud is not in the side (and he is not world class by any stretch), the team lacks a reference point; Danny is a super player but he cant play centrally in a 4-4-3 accept at home where we dominate. If he is to play centrally it has to be in 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 (ala Bergkamp & Wright/Henry). Both Sanogo and Akpom are not ready to be the back-up option to Giroud should be out of the side for a considerable period of time.
Another point, Ospina must play in the final. I have always been a fan of the Polish One as he has the potential to be outstanding but sadly he does not have the mindset to apply himself and his confidence has been shot to pieces (his performance at OT inthe previous round was awful to). Whilst Ospina is not world class, he is the better option for the here and now.
Finally, as I mentioned before last week, Wenger deserves all the praise for turning around the league form over the past three months, however he was dammed by is own words yesterday and it is clear he took Reading far too lightly! By saying their motivation levels were from another planet was embarrassing and showed a lack of planning; what did he expect??? Reading had nothing to lose and many of those players will never have another shot in the limelight so they were going to give it everything.
I am just glad compared to last season’s semi, the celebrations were considerably low-key and the team realised they were lucky to get through to the final – last year after the shoot-out you would have thought by the reaction of the team and fans we’d have won the European Cup. It sounds nonsense, but maybe we will perform better against Liverpool than Aston Villa in the final on the basis we struggle to cope when being clear favourites at Wembley – our best display camr against City in the Charity Shield when we were outstanding.
Fine report, Guv’nor.
Bring on the Chavs.
COYG
Family duty prevented me from seeing the game live, and recording snafus have prevented me from seeing the game at all as yet but it sounds like it was a bit difficult watching. Thank the Great Gooner in the Sky for the result. 🙂
I finally arrived home at 0.45hrs! Gooner Malcolm failed to arrive at the meeting point after the game, he was not well, got confused and didn’t answer his phone. Panic set in as Gooner Kevin and I searched the concourse. Eventually he rang us and we found him at the Pronova Hotel. By that time the crowds had dispersed and we found our way onto a Kings X bound tube train and on to Peterborough for the drive to Kings Lynn, 2 hours later than planned.
As for the game, what an anticlimax. Was the lovely Hector rested or was he injured? What was AW thinking changing 3 of the back 5, all 3 very short of match time and it showed! The team as a whole didn’t function, too much play concentrated in the middle, too slow in releasing the ball and no one using the vast amount of space on the Wembley pitch.
We lived in hope that after the first goal, which was from a super Ozil/Alexis move ,we would take control and the game would improve but it wasn’t until the HFB appeared on the scene that we started to look like the side who had been giving us joy at the HOF.
As the ET wore on it appeared to me that Reading were playing for a penalty shoot out and it was then Arsene took Le Coq off and we got Theo who did provide some energy to the proceedings.
Yes, we were lucky to squeeze in the winner but luck wins you cups and I fancy us for this one no matter the opposition on 30th May.
I am off on my hols tomorrow deliberately organised to miss seeing a certain ex Gunner running around in a blue shirt next Sunday, although I will probably call in at the Sports Bar, Cafe George in Kyrenia to give the game a look.
Have fun all of you who are going , sing a song for me.
COYRs
Come on Villa, shit all over Gerrard’s dreams.
Hope we get Villa.. couldn’t stand the inevitable love-fest for Gerrard otherwise..!
And as I write. Coutinho scores… going to be a long day…!
Then again.. maybe playing Pool would be easier… Benteke is on fire and he’s sure to give anyone trouble and Villa look dangerous going forward!
A very good report Holic but I have come to expect nothing less;)
The mixture of fans pouring through London saw us run across dome Chelsea fans. Arrogant, as ever it was still interesting to hear them mention how underwhelmed they are by Fabregas since Christmas. According to them Hazard is holding the team together. I mention this not to reopen the debate about Ozil and Fabregas particularly but to say that Ozil has looked very good since his return and I don’t feel we’ve felt the absence of Fabregas particularly . It’s not the part of our team that most needs fixing.
It seems that many Arsenal fans now feel that the man they would have sacked for Martinez/ Klopp/Simeone/ Loew should see out his contract and might know what he is doing . I think the big improvement this year has been tactical nous but Reading set us problems yesterday through a very canny manager and credit to them. They were physical but as holic points out they had every right to be and I took no objection to their tactics. I think the big problem we had was a significant rotation in defence which caused us problems as we lost a lot of the understanding that we had built up. I think Wmbley should see ups field our very best eleven.
Now to watch the other semi with Michael Owen switched off
Villa doing very well!
Delph in! 2-1 for Villa!
Scouser defense is hopeless, and Gerrard contributing nothing. If Pool does turn it around, hope Gerrard does play, as he’s way past it.
We’re definitely going to play the better team in the finals..
..Good! We have an opportunity to show them how it’s done!
Bring on Villa!!
Up The Arse!
😀
Ha ha ha!
So our job on 30th May is now only one — just to win the FA Cup, and not also to stop the obscene sentimentalities about Gerard. 🙂
How is that for an anti-climax, ‘Pool obsessed British media? 🙂
A different narrative from the one we expected . Villa thoroughly deserved it and look a different side to the one we have thrashed twice this season. It will be an interesting final!
Ode to Stevie Me on May 30:
Happy Birthday to you….
Happy Birthday to you….
Now *uck off to America!
Good riddance to you!
I see Arsene is being lambasted for us not steamrolling over Reading and hence evidently showing a lack of respect to our opponents and by extension to the Cup.
As if historically FA Cup Semis are won by 4-0 margins as a practice. Our SF record under Arsene: 1-0 vs Wolves, 0-0 and 1-2 against ManU, 2-1 against Spurs, 1-0 against ‘Boro, 1-0 against Sheffield Utd, 0-1 against ManU, 3-0 against Blackburn, 1-2 against Chelsea, 1-1 (4-2) against Wigan.
That is, under Arsene we never suffered a Cup-set at the SF stage, but except for once we never beat the opposition by more than one goal. We played 10 SFs under him, won 7, lost twice to ManU and once to a Chelsea side. And among those 6 finals we already played we won 5, losing only once in the most unlikely manner.
That tells me that the manager, rotation and all, pretty much knows what he is doing in these stages of the competition.
BTW, when I say “being lambasted” I don’t at all mean here (except for the inevitable exception) but in general outside in the wider world. Quite a bizarre reaction from some Arsenal fans after winning a SF with 72% possession and 9 shots on target. Not our fluent most display but hardly something to be so negative about.
DocFaust is rambling off stats like NBN..! Brilliant Stuff!
😀
It’s going to be a cracking Final! Villa is going to be our toughest game this season I’ll wager..!
Hopefully we’ll have all our key players fit and ready by then, we’ll need all of them.
🙂
One slight downside to winning the cup is that we might possibly hand a Europa League place to Spuds or Liverpool, depending on what happens in the league placings.
Wouldn’t Villa automatically get the Europa League placement?
Hull did.
With all the bias yesterday for Reading against Arsenal – can you imagine what it would have been like if we had to play ‘Pool in a cup final and listen to the BS coming from Souness, Owen, McManaman, Lawro, Thommo & co……? Now we can at least listen to the same BS knowing that ‘Pool couldn’t even beat Villa to get to the final. I think after today, people are finally beginning to realise that the real Liverpool Emperor has no clothes at all. If anything, they’ve been playing above the sum of their parts. But for what its worth, I would always prefer to play Villa simply because ‘Pool have wonderful tradition in causing upsets to win cup finals (Rem 2001 FA Cup final..or the CL final in 2005…).
Anyway – Its Villa. The prospect of winning back to back FA cups and watching Sherwood make a complete tit of himself in the process is really something to saviour.
Cheers for the report guv’.
I said all I wanted to say on the last blog, but after a second viewing, we didn’t look as bad as I believed it to be live. Not a vintage performance by any stretch of the imagination, but job done none the less.
Only the other Brummies in the way now, who fully deserved their win against the Mickeys, Oh what a sad day it must be in medialand, no Stevie Me in the Final is a tragedy. 😆
Arsenal v AsTim Villa.
Bring it on!!
H2H – they’ve changed the rules, the FA Cup runners-up no longer get into the Europa League if the winners are already in Europe. It’ll go to the highest Premier League team who hasn’t already qualified for Europe instead if we win the final.
Aaah, cheers Charlie. They must of forgot to send me the memo. Gits. 😉
Agree with all of that Joe, although tbf “our” Timmy has done a pretty good job since taking over, they were a complete shambles under Lambert.
Play our best team and we should be okay…….
Come on Arsene, you know it makes sense.
I didn’t really see that result coming. I’m glad it did though!
Like Joe said, the pundit circle jerk, pro scouse jizzfest, would of been unbearable.
Now it’s just hilarious.
BB @ 26 — I am always inspired by the best. And NBN is the best of best when it comes to matters statistical.
It would be a tough final, no doubt, but much more enjoyable knowing that if the unthinkable happens then it would not be f****ing ‘Pool we would hand the trophy over to. Call me mean-spirited, but cannot tolerate the overbearing sense of entitlement of that crowd. 🙂
We will win it anyway.
Brendan Rogers is the first Liverpool manager since the 1950s not to win a trophy within his first three seasons.
Good thing that club has patience. They will need it. 😉
@DocFaust
Aye.. We shall win it anyway!
What an atmosphere of pure football it will be.. hoping both teams turn up on the day!
😀
Prefer if they didn’t.
Only one who does not show up on gameday is usually the REF!
😀
Excellent report Holic. I am extremely grateful.
I missed the whole thing as a result of being double-booked for an outing to Stratford for a bit of culture. Miss B kindly texted me when the goals went in which was a bit distracting as Willie Loman went through his paces. I have now seen the goals but nothing else and have read no other reports – now, I don’t feel the need for any further infoemation. I suspect from your report that watching the game was as excruciating as watching ‘Death of a Salesman’ with a couple of high-spots leavening a lot of squirming and angst.
As noted above, semi-finals are never spectacles and certainly for us, are always laborious and nerve-shredding.
Job done.
Now let’s win all our remaining games and finish the season with a big smile and lots of promise for next season.
😀
Would it be completely heartless to buy Stevie G a Cup Final ticket for a birthday present?
Excellent report Holic,
Hope you managed to enjoy the day despite the various obstacles thrown in the way.
Very difficult viewing, just as it must be very difficult to play decent football, whatever the relative abilities of the players, when you are being kicked, elbowed, forearmed and constantly hassled.
All understandable from Reading’s point of view but there are actual rules to distinguish understandable from illegal harassment. A pity Mr Atkinson either doesn’t know them, or decided not to implement them.
There could be more of the same to come from Villa in the final but class will tell.
Best team though please Arsene.
That includes full backs and keepers 😉
fuckin fuckinfuck
that was a weekend
nowt ever easy with us is there
we fuckin did it though 🙂
*holds fish finger sandwich aloft*
yeeee haaaaaaa
cheers for the inspiration ‘hol
.
foodly greatness indeed
Trev, Atkinson has been consistent for years: permanent open season on fouling Arsenal; nitpicking sanctions on any Arsenal roughness.
We’ve overlooked this paragon of consistency. :/
I do hope he doesn’t get the final.
saw some shooting stars
fell into the ocean
and had a doozy of a row with herself
.
so
.
all in all
can’t complain
.
crackin few days
.
🙂
Comedy gold
http://i.imgbox.com/vouNSSWr.jpg
Thanks Cynic. Superb link. Had me tittering like a schoolgirl!
That might not be the real account (I don’t do Twitter) but it’s still funny
You Ropey league topper Sir H2H appears to have gone into hyperdrive. Who is the ropiest? 😉
Top of the league with the full allowed contingent of Gunners in the team, even though we didn’t play.
That’s the way to do it. 😎
To complete a nice weekend our ladies beat Man City on the opening of their new ground 1-0.
What a final it is for the Swampies
Sherwood versus the team they hate most and they may need us to win it to stay in Europe
Bath,
it’s not just Atkinson unfortunately. Don’t know if you can think of one who ever does us a favour but I’m struggling. I suppose Oliver did well to deny the diving Mancs and baying Surrey hordes at Old Trafford ?
Ttg, heh !
Is that what Catch 22 means ?
The Totts have been in the Europa League so many times now, I think their fans are as sick of it as the club officials must be. Still, at least their home games on a Sunday won’t clash with MK Dons. 😆
Cynic@41 – Yes. Where do I sign up?
COYG
I find Wembley a strange place these days. A soulless place. A place that took 10 years to build yet still looks rushed. A place that looks as if it was thrown together in both organisation and construction.
Other commitments meant that a trip to the pub pre match was not even close to being on the agenda. I arrived at Wembley to meet friends and try and get a beer. I say try because the staff that had been bussed in for the day of low level work experience clearly were not fit purpose. Trying to get blood from a stone may have been easier than trying to get fuckwit 1 or fuckwit 2 to pour a pint.
The team news filtered through and like many I was surprised to see so many changes. The biggest surprise was the inclusion of Debuchy. What made the selection even more worrying was the lack of a right back on the bench. Very strange. I understand totally that players need to be rotated at times. I get it that players need to be rested at various stages and that it’s a squad game. But this is a semi final. A game that get’s us into the final. I really do not understand the amount of changes made. Especially when we have had a week off and there is 8 days before we play again.
The game is summed up perfectly by Holic. All very much as I saw it. At times it was lacklustre and disjointed. Let’s not fool ourselves here. We should have been homes and hosed long before the final whistle. In the end we had to rely on one error from the keeper to get us through. In the end it was more relief than euphoria. There were good moments, of course there were but I feel that we really should not be making games like this as tough as we do.
In the end it is another FA Cup Final to look forward to. We face Gooner Tim in another game that we will have to be fully up for. As so many others have already said, please, let’s play our strongest side available. None of this he was promised he would play or he needs games garbage. These are highly paid professionals, quite frankly they will do as they are told as they are paid to do.
A couple of final points. I thought that Ollie G made a massive difference when he came on. He just upped the pace by about two gears and did not stop running. A word also for the much maligned Theo. I know it was only a cameo but again he brought something to the game that caused Reading problems. He was also very disciplined when it was clear that even basic standing was now, understandably causing Debuchy problems.
May 30th. Bring it on. But first, lets give Maureen and the Chavs a good shoeing next Sunday.
Dr F@35: generous words and much appreciated.
Not a stat, more a random fact, but Aston Villa’s second Cup Final was the first in which goal nets were used.
Goal nets do have the advantage of stopping balls from straying too far.
Another well balanced report, ‘holic. Congrats!
The trip on Theo could have gone either way. It looked to me (yes, in glorious close-up on TV) that contact was bang on the line, with Theo falling in the area of course. That said I thought Reading had a much clearer call for a pen when a cross hit Debuchey’s hand in the area. Nothing intentional by Deb, but it did deflect the ball’s path and I think that qualifies as a pen. They were also very unlucky to be incorrectly called off-side on a couple of occasions when they could have been clean through. We got a bit lucky at times and our defence needs to look at some of these moments very closely.
‘desi’gner gooner … In the last round you complained about me going on about Theo. I never mentioned Theo! The reference was to Danny being preferred to OG at CF – a position for which he’s shown limited aptitude just about every time he’s played there (as ‘holic himself recognises in his OP). I might have preferred Theo starting on the wing and Rambo inside instead of Santi, but that’s another story…
Öskar
Steve T @ 55: Fully agreed about both Giroud and Theo. Not only in scoring goals and in the link-up play, but just as a target-man both the strength and intelligence in his play have become central to our offensive rhythm. Theo looked very good in his cameo, dropping deep to aid Debuchy, protecting the ball and choosing a couple of chances for great bursting runs.
Arsene offers somewhat of an explanation about the full-back choices 🙂
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150419/wenger-why-i-brought-back-debuchy
Giroud and Walcott coming off the bench make for a potent combination, and something a healthy squad helps to make a possibility. 🙂
@ The Doc and Steve T
I thought Theo looked much more positionally aware than previously and seemed prepared to hold the team’s shape. Then he picked a couple of moments to turn on the afterburners and show his stuff, which is still fast and furious. Much better, well played, more of the same please.
Oh, and hurry up and sign da ting.
Theo did what Theo has always been doing on his rare appearances this year., but which no-one but me and Cynic have been seeing. Those afterburner runs you mention, GSD, remind me of one he made – been scratching my head but can’t remember who it was against – which began around our penalty area (he was defending behind Bellerin at the time) and ended with a pass that OG converted.
Good to see people watching the same game as I was for a change. 😉
Öskar
on GK.
does it make sense to start an GK who is not playing for six weeks? Even Wojo is a decent player, he will be rusty and that will compound the problem with his erratic decision making. Arsenal FC is not made to catering a single player’s need (or a manager’s stubborn principle). Arsenal FC is here to win trophies for our fans.
So Arsene, please start the best eleven (i.e. Ospina, belle, monreal should start).
And judging from AV’s performance yesterday, it is not a easy win in the final.
coyg!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great to get to another final. after waiting for so many years we get two finals back to back.
You never know which players turn up on the day. Last year Santi and Ramsey came good. Hope we can keep everyone fit and ready for the final.
Btw anyone care to give me their spare ticket. i’ll be forever in your debt. 🙂
Agree abc, and I’m sure the best XI will start. But much as I have been impressed with Hector the Protector Debuchy is definitely our #1 RB. I was surprised to see him start in the semi, but he played like he’d never been away, imo.
Öskar
@Oskar
I thought Theo stayed in position and held the space in front of a tiring Debuchy. This awareness of his role in the TEAM, not simply as a running outlet was different to his previous cameos. He did the same things well he always does but he improved a lot on the things he usually does badly. I do not think that he did the same as ever and that my eyesight has changed or that you and Cynic have been seeing him accurately while the rest of us have been blind to his obvious qualities. I have not mentioned Theo in here for ages as I have nothing new to say. It was precisely because he changed his game (for the short time he was on) and therefore gave me something new to comment on that I made a small mention of the change in his play, which is exactly the change many of us have been calling for and certainly adds a string to his bow and makes him more useful to Arsene and Arsenal.
Oskar @58, I didn’t say you went on and on about theo – I just questioned “Is it necessary for you to have this derision for Danny just to defend your favouritism of Theo?” Agreed you hadn’t mentioned Theo at all in your post earlier but you had compared Danny to TGSTEL which I found highly inaccurate and mentioned so in my comment. But the general narrative from you has been slating anything that Welbeck does implying that it is Welbeck whose place in the eleven should go to Theo….and therefore my comment. In that particular comment of course you were referring to starting Giroud up front. And just to clarify I don’t think Danny had a good game against Reading but for you to say “I would never have started a CF who is the equal of TGSTEL in that position on only on his best days…” is doing huge injustice to Welbeck.
Headed out on a first ever trip to the Far East. Will be in Thailand for Arsenal v. Chelsea so don’t know if I’ll be in a place where it’s possible to see the game or even if I will have figured out the time difference between there and London but my thoughts will be in the right place. 🙂
Actually, the time difference is six hours. Exactly the same as it is when I am at home, except Thailand is ahead of London instead of behind. Is this confusing or what?
WENT TO WEMBLEY PAID FOR A SEAT BUT COULDN’T USE IT BECAUSE EVERYONE INFRONT STOOD UP …WHY YOU CAN SEE MORE WHEN EVERYONE SITS DOWN AND SO CAN THE LITTLE KIDS WHO HAD TO STAND ON THIER SEATS TO SEE SOME OF IT if so many want to stand lets get a standing area but don’t inflict what you want on everyone else ..sorry but I can’t STAND IT
SEE WHAT i DID …. CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS STANDING DESIRE
Cheers
PS I can still shout and sing when sitting down , and we don’t stand to watch the game on telly ………..do we
I know of someone who does stand from time to time when watching it on telly. Not only do they stand, they do that inching forward thing when we attack, as if they were standing on the old North Bank.
😀
I too agree that changing a winning combination was strange but then after getting to know bellerin had played through an injury previously, it made sense to rest him for this one.
I agree as well that Wenger underestimated the opponent, he should have know better that it is a cup semi final afterall. Thankfully it did not end in agony.
Gibbs is a worry, i am sorry but his positional awareness is poor and it continue to prevent him from being the consistent full back we need from him. Injury record doesnt help either and i am pretty sure this way, he will be reduced to a back up than first team.
Ozil and Sanchez brilliant as ever and you wonder if Santi is feeling the strain. He himself admitted that people are running empty and that is worrying considering we have 7 massive games in front of us. Will jack play some part then afterall??? time shall tell.
Van Gaal at his arrogant best after the chelsea game suggests the bitterness. Mou will set his team up more or less the same way against us come sunday. it is left to us to either force the pace or allow them to drift towards a draw or a break away goal and a win.
In the end, a cup final again and if we do finish in the top 3 and win the trophy, does it not mean the season is a success? or if we want to look at it hard, then it will mean 11 years without the league. To each their own perspective.
Re: Cynic @71. Speaking of yourself in the third person again? 🙂
Vinay @ 72 — Good observation on Santi. He is definitely feeling the strain as he has been playing (quite magnificently if I may add) a very unusual role for him that makes a lot of physical demands. He was never one to shy away from collective press, but to do that from a forward role is a different matter than being the pivote in the middle of the pitch constantly carrying and protecting the ball. He has been playing the Ramsey role with his inimitable footwork added on top and Arteta’s metronomic passing.
I think we will see more of Rambo back in that role, and more of Theo and Welbeck on the right, especially Theo with a more seasoned performer in Debuchy in protect the right wing. Santi will be rotated and I think TR7 has a few more cameo and one or two starting roles to play as well. Jack would probably be introduced very carefully, and only if we are cruising or in absolute need of something completely different. If he gets one more of those tackles — lest we forget his last injury was from quite an agricultural challenge by a ManU player — before the season ends and misses out pre-season even partially because of that it would get hard for him to compete next season.
Hi everyone, I am from hong Kong and plan to visit London end of May. Hire could I buy tickets to the final at Wembley?
@ Dr.Faustus, yup totally agreed and the worry is Santi may just crumble at the finishing line when he is most needed.
He will be key sunday for i am certain zouma will mark sanchez and matic will do the same on ozil. They key to unveiling that dogged defense will have to be Santi and i am tempted to play jack instead of ramsey just for the same reason.
Chelsea makes me sick, mou and that dna so and so makes me puke. Yet for all that, he and that team always have pulled the wool over us. We just do not seem to have an idea on how to beat them. The belief remains that this just maybe the game though where we do beat them, in a season where we did beat united away as well to break that particular jinx. The difference is we need to score first, take our chances and make absolutely no mistakes. In short play the perfect game and hope hazard doesnt.
abc.
Tickets for the final will be extreamly hard to come by, even if you are a member.
Black market would be your best bet, but be prepare to pay waaaaaaaay over the odds and be careful you don’t get stuck with fake tickets.
The game against Chelsea will be a game of few goal scoring opportunities because of the way Chelsea always set up against top four sides, especially against Arsenal. Giroud could well be the player that makes the difference in a game of this nature. Earlier in his career, Giroud was always on the end of critical goal scoring opportunities against top sides but somehow lacked the confidence to convert those chances. This season he has improved leaps and bounds. His confidence has grown and he is a different beast when presented with a goal scoring opportunity. If he gets one of those chances in this game he will surely score. Another significant improvement in Giroud’s game has been his doing away with constantly going down on feeble challenges, which really seemed irritating for such a massively built guy. Now he stays on his feet and really imposes his physicality, making himself a nuisance for defenders. His left foot can unfurl a thunderbolt from distance – a facet of his game that is quite underrated. So Giroud could be the key player against Chelsea.
Another massive improvement for us this season has been our setpiece delivery & heading off set pieces. We always look dangerous on set pieces and that danger could be accentuated if Gabriel starts the game. Beating Chelsea 1-0 with a set piece goal would be wicked fun. Just to rub it in the tactically astute special one’s face…
Just back drunk and very much agree with GSD about Theo. I kept looking for him much further forward and while he wouldn’t be my first choice of player to protect a tiring full- back he would be absolutely my first choice to run at a tiring defence. He did both jobs well on the day.
Like it has for Steve T , the new Wembley has lost much of its magic. The first glimpse doesn’t make me gasp like it used to when you eventually reach the Upper Tier. It doesn’t have the class of the Emirates or the sight lines of the Millennium. I think I’d have been just as happy to keep going to Cardiff it was lucky for us in the main. The pitch looked much better though than it used to.
I understand Hector has an ankle problem but with Debuchy making his first appearance back I would have expected Chambers to be on the bench.
On the m25 today I made the mistake of listening to Durham who blew his top at the fuss made about Federici. Though I whooped with joy at the time I think you would have had to have a heart of stone not to feel for him. ‘ he’s a professional, get on with it’ was the ginger prat’s view. Someone ought to get through one day and give him an idea of where he ranks in the very lowest ranks of cesspit journalism.
@ 75
I would suggest you search on eBay for a rocking horse or send an immediate urgent requests to Santa, Aladdin, and every member of the Magic Circle.
Alternatively you could take a DNA test to prove you’re a member of the Football Family.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/fa-cup/11550497/Arsenal-and-Aston-Villa-fans-expect-to-miss-out-on-FA-Cup-final-tickets.html
Interesting article. I think it just demonstrates further how little real fans are really thought of.
Ttg,
I think he probably already knows that. I’m also pretty sure he doesn’t care. His job is nothing to do with “journals”, it is purely and simply to generate money from phone calls made to the station.
Most Arsenal fans – and I’m sure you have too – have cottoned on and no longer bother phoning at all. The pleas from various TalkSpite presenters for Arsenal fans to “ring in and tell us what you think” are almost funny and go very largely unheeded these days.
That is, of course, with the exception of good old / poor old Claude – he of the match day, hand held camcorder soundbite. I just had the station on a few minutes ago and there he was, complaining that we don’t play winning football and “yes, of course he would swap it for the boring dross that Chelsea play”.
He and the station deserve each other. Durham would love it if you rang him to get into a row. That’s why nobody bothers.
@77
H2H, thanks for the advice.
@80 Zico, thanks for your advice too.
I hear what you say, GSD (#66), but still have to disagree. Perhaps not you personally, but many of the comments I have read about Theo here suggest some people have been jumping on the ‘Theo is a rubbish defender’ bandwagon without any real close analysis of his positioning and defending. Perhaps because it makes them sound like they know about these things.
My observations have shown him pretty much where he should be, most of the time. He may be incapable of a crunching tackle to win the ball a la Le Coq, but invariably has the wing blocked off, and no-one is going to beat him for speed that way. Almost always the attacker has had to turn and either pass sideways or more often backwards, both of which stall the attacking momentum, which I believe is good enough for a player principally charged with scoring or making goals. And he has often been well placed deep in our half ready for a breakaway, but unless Özil has been involved the required pass has usually been missing. This is a key area where we, and Theo, miss the genius of Fabregas, though some may not wish to hear it!
Öskar
@oskar
i thought what walcott did in this game which is different from his previous few games, was that he sits deeper. Hence he is able to help out the team defensively and this was not the case in previous games… just because he does it this game doesnt mean he had been doing for the previous games…
Anyways, i still love walcott 😀 Hope he can continue to polish off his rustiness and force his way back into our starting lineup 😀
Alright Oskar, fair enough. I thought he played deeper and with more awareness than usual. I expect Arsene to use him more now until the end of the season- I think he has been told to buck up defensively or stay off the pitch. The more he shows he is willing to do this I reckon the more he plays. Arsene appreciates his attacking potential as much as anyone. If he does play more then we’ll get more chance to look at how much he has changed his approach. I’ll wait to see him a bit more in our last few games before I add anything else on his style.
So Real Madrid have sleep inducing wallpaper to help players prepare for games? It would have been cheaper to get a subscription to BT Sport.
Heh, Cynic 🙂
Cynic.
It wouldn’t work on me. Makes me angry not sleepy…
Trev
Yes I would support the Swampies before I ring that prick. Claude is a caricature of himself. Too much media around for my liking but it’s a free country I suppose
Cynic
Very good 😉
I didn’t mention it on Saturday because I had just got in from the semi but I thought LVG made a complete prat of himself on Saturday. He tried to ridicule Mowbray who didn’t rise to the bait. Hopefully Mowbray whacked him with the mike when the cameras stopped. He made Moaninho look like a mature adult which takes some doing.
Yet on that awful TalkShite programme yesterday everyone was queuing up to say that United are nailed on for the title next season. With the right recruitment I honestly think we have a better chance. They are eleven points behind Chelsea having played a game more. But it’s not as if they spent any money in the summer!
His best players this season were brought in by Moyes and SAF and the latter did win the title with them. He’s an ugly Dutch blowhard and I wouldn’t put him,in charge of a kid’s piggy bank.
One of the worst refs we’ve ever seen has been given the Cup Final. He should have stuck to drumming for Culture Club
He was shit at that too.
Stevie Wonder would get more decisions right.
GSD @ 87: Spot on. Arsene had done something similar with Djorkaeff in Monaco that had great positive impact on his career.
OTD
Your loyalty to Walcott is admirable. I hope the guy can reinvent himself but I honestly think it would be easier to transform Mertesacker into a winger than Theo into a defender. Sorry I jest. One of the great skills of a manager is in seeing something in a player that nobody else does but also recognising what they can’t do and where their real talent lies. Frankly I thought Theo showed great conscientiousness on Saturday but looked the real deal when he tore forward.
When he got injured he possibly played one of the most mature games I have ever seen from him against the Scum. He and Gnabry brought a level of pace to the side that Tottenham couldn’t deal with. When he got injured Sagna was a stable presence at right back but since then we have signed a similar player in Debuchy who has been seriously injured and introduced two other right backs who are highly promising but require perhaps better cover from the wide player. And Bellerin is arguably quicker than Theo! On top of this when fit the Ox, who is as fragile as Theo is has developed very well and has a strength that Theo hasn’t got. I think GSD is right to advise a wait and see policy on how he develops.
As for the midfield construct we have two of the best passers in Europe in Ozil and Cazorla. Talking to Chelsea fans on Saturday they are far from impressed with Fabregas over the last three months and he hasn’t made anything like the contribution to winning the title that Hazard has.
You can’t play Ozil and Fabregas together or if you do you’d probably have to sacrifice our second best player this season in Santi. I’m not the slowest on here to criticise Wenger but I think he has got a lot right this season and our midfield balance is the best it has been since we had Gilberto and Vieira playing ahead of Pires and Ljungberg. Coquelin is a very big reason for that and a much tighter approach in midfield when we haven’t got the ball- and we don’t have Ramsey playing at the level he was last year. So as someone who has seen about thirty games live, home and away this season I’m pretty positive about the way the team has developed
I would take Fabregas and the title over Ozil and runners up, but I’m greedy.
I’m pretty happy with Özil at the moment, Ttg, though mostly by comparison with the waste of space he’s been for most of his gunnery. I’d rate him worth at least £25m now, still improving, and second only to Alexis in the side. I mentioned Fabregas only because he had the knack of producing that long through ball Theo thrives on, especially when breaking out of defence, and no-one since has done it as well. Özil has been better than most. Which would I prefer? Perhaps we shouldn’t go there… 😉
Perhaps I should also temper my analysis of Theo’s defensive play by admitting he did in fact play a little further back against Reading – albeit he was only on for a cameo. But not that much further back although, in my opinion, possibly too far back since he seemed to be missing in attack on a couple of occasions. But I quibble considering the limited time he was anywhere at all on the field.
Öskar
TTG — You are absolutely right about Hazard’s pivotal role in the Scum’s impending title wining run. He is the player who made things happen in all the tight matches where Chelsea looked bereft of ideas in attack.
Only people who are stuck in some romanticized version of a past that never was that glorious to begin with would prefer Fabregas to Ozil in Arsenal today. The Fabregas circa 2015 is unfit (as his significant drop in form in the second half indicates, it was the same in Barca last year), a selfish player, has quite the prima donna attitude (“look at me, I am Messi’s friend” ), and behaved in a devious and distasteful manner to the club that made his career only to force a transfer when he was in the middle of his contract. That move precipitated the worst time of Arsene’s tenure and thankfully we have learnt to not rely on a thing as fickle as players’ loyalty. Ozil, Santi, Alexis et al. are consummate professionals who would neither make manipulative claims about emotional connection to the club that doesn’t exist at the first place and neither they would shy away from their professional responsibilities.
Oskar @ 98 — How many really big, important, crucial matches did we win with Cesc feeding Theo through balls? And how many pivotal matches where we dropped point because the team thought they are too much of a stud to do defensive duties collectively and can outscore their opponents?
Two halves of Fabregas in last five seasons.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chelsea-midfielder-cesc-fabregas-his-history-fading-second-half-season-1491667
You’ve lost me, Dr F. I thought the whole point of football was to outscore your opponents, and any teams entering the competition without thinking they can do that begins with completely the wrong attitude.
That’s not to say that ensuring the opposition doesn’t outscore you isn’t a good strategy, just that one without the other is like wearing odd socks to a job interview.
Fabregas didn’t only feed Theo, his through balls (while playing for us at least) were exquisite on occasions, allowing scoring opportunities for a variety of team-members. I don’t think he has played anything like as well since he left us, which I put down to AW’s mentoring at Arsenal.
Sorry, I can’t give you specifics of Fab to Theo to net, I don’t have an abomination of monks to research trivia like Ned.
And yes, that is the collective noun for monks, as I’m sure Ned can confirm!
Öskar
Oskar @ 102 — The whole point of any competitive sport is to know your strengths and weaknesses and perform accordingly. A collection of individuals who think that they are going to automatically outscore the opposition without having to be disciplined and focused about the defensive side of the games never win anything, and in pressurized situations often perform in a ridiculous manner which is all pomp and bravado but little substance. Great football teams always display a fantastic balance between confidence and humility, quality and composure, individuality and camaraderie. The Arsenal of Cesc-Theo had more often than not failed to perform to their supposed true abilities especially under pressure and when it mattered most. That was not an accident, that was a problem of collective attitude, best exemplified by Gallas or Bendy (who, technically and physically had all the potentials to be a superb player but just pissed away his career) but there were many matches where the attitude of Cesc or Theo or RVP was no better, “of what are we doing playing football with these neanderthals, why can’t we play Barcelona every weekend?”
Yes, in those occasions the Cesc-Theo passes worked they worked very well. But there was neither any consistency nor any reliability to that formula, not the least because they both were injury-prone, and while Cesc was around Theo was quite the scatter-brained finisher. Sometimes superb, often erratic. For every memorable goal there would be 5 head-in-the-hand moments. Theo’s only great consistent goalscoring season came after both Cesc and RVP had left, he stayed fit, and the team focused fully to leverage his scoring ability while accepting his defensive limitations.
Cesc had his peak with us at 09-10. That was his best season. But we should remember that even when Cesc-Theo (and the perennially horse-placenta covered RVP) were supposedly scoring all these marvelous goals we needed Arshavin in 08-09 to save our CL bacon, and then Nasri (& Chamakh!!) to have a blinder of six months in 10-11 to get us at the top of the table. Cesc was a very good player for us, but he was hardly the savior-champion that many Arsenal supporters have made him out to be since he left.
Human memory is really very unreliable as our very act of remembrance is already contextualized by the framework of our bias and prejudices. It is a simple fact that we fail to acknowledge (and sometimes to the detriment of our well-being, or well-being of our closed ones). The best way to judge performance — not the aesthetic beauty of moments constructed, but actual performances that lead to measurable goals — is to rely on statistics. And statistically speaking, Cesc-Theo has hardly been a dominating , or even consistently rewarding, combination for Arsenal F.C.
Relying on statistics to explain anything in football, Dr F, begs far too many questions, and is about as reliable as a weather report.
And the whole point of any competitive sport is NOT to know your strengths and weaknesses and perform accordingly, it is to WIN THE GAME regardless of them. Knowing your strengths and weaknesses is simply key to preparing a strategy to WIN.
Cesc-Theo was just one key element in a much bigger picture, just one piece of the jigsaw. And the complete picture had a lot of pieces missing back then. And some of the pieces that weren’t missing one year went missing the next. And even some of the pieces that went nowhere had their edges knocked off and spent months with the carpenters waiting to be repaired. All of which meant AW frequently had to pad out his picture with a number of ill-fitting blanks he’d otherwise have kept only for spares.
Fortunately, unlike in recent years, we now have nearly a full set of quality pieces, and it’s becoming much clearer what our jigsaw will look like when it’s complete. Just a piece or two still required and then we will know what that hole in the middle of the picture contains. What exactly is the skipper holding up for everyone to see?
Öskar
Oskar@104: The point is playing according to your strengths and weaknesses in a consistent manner is the aspect that is in the team’s control, not always the result. The positive result is ideally the consequence of positive (and disciplined) performance. No top level football team prepare with the attitude of “let’s go just win the game through our quality”. They may have a quiet confidence that they can do so, but their preparation is centered around doing the basics right, playing with right commitment, focus and discipline as a base so that the individual and collective qualities can not only sparkle but also complete the result.
We evaluate sporting greatness through statistics, as simple as that. We remember them through some performances we may had the privilege to witness, but the objective evaluation of sporting success (across time) is through pure numbers. It is the team results, it is the personal numbers, and it is the consistency of numbers. Where previously the personal numbers were limited to only goals scored now other facets of the performances can also be very reliably recorded and hence used to evaluate performance.
Our generation haven’t had the privilege of watching Don Bradman play (except in some grainy footages), but anyone who loves cricket can tell you that he most likely was one of the best batsmen of all time, if not the best, and really a freak of nature. Why? That average. Statistics.
A 20 year old football fan who have never watched Garincha in full flow — except in some not-so-grainy footages — will still tell you that Brazil circa 50-70 were the best international football team in the World. Based on statistics of how many matches they won and how many world cups they won.
Puskas or Di Stefano would forever remain as two of the greatest Real Madrid players even to those who would not have seen a single youtube clip of them or read any poetic remembrance of their magical mastery because of the statistics of their records.
Statistics is not a substitute for human memory, it doesn’t grant you the pleasure of recalling beauty or reliving ecstatic moments. But the objective construct of ‘success’ in sports is a statistical construct.
At the risk of distracting all and sundry from the regular Groundhog Day debate(s), here’s something positive and a clue for the American wearing the Syrup:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32399291
I am sure the players, struggling to earn a crust, will be mortified.
“anyone who loves cricket can tell you that he most likely was one of the best batsmen of all time, if not the best, and really a freak of nature. Why? That average. Statistics.” – Dr F #105
—————————————————————————-
And I say that stats can be deceptive. Let’s look at Bradman and see why…
I know it’s considered heresy to question the great man’s automatic right to batting supremacy, but was he really so much better than anyone since? The best of his era, certainly, but are we comparing apples with apples? Was the game the same back then? I contend it was not. Here are some facts to consider…
1. Bradman played just 52 tests over 20 years, so lots of time to rest between games. He surely never approached any of them jaded, as today’s players often do. Nor were his test stats affected by playing ODIs and T20s and the different techniques required to play them. He only had test matches to focus on.
2. 37 of those 52 tests were played against England. Who wouldn’t have a better average had they played 71% of their test career against England over, say, the past 20 years?
3. Apart from England Bradman only faced three other test playing nations; one series each against India, South Africa and the West Indies, ALL OF THEM AT HOME in Australia. Such was the (lack of) strength of these countries at the time that Australia won nine of the 15 tests by an innings and two more by ten wickets … ie, Bradman didn’t have to bat in the second innings (when conditions are always at their worst) in 11 of the only 15 games he didn’t play against England.
4. He played a higher percentage of home tests (64%) than players do now. Today players have to adapt to conditions in ten countries; BRADMAN ONLY PLAYED TEST MATCHES IN TWO COUNTRIES, AUSTRALIA AND ENGLAND. In particular he never played on the sub-continent, renowned graveyard for batting averages.
5. For many reasons – physical fitness, stamina (most players smoked then), diet, scientific conditioning, technical coaching – today’s quick bowlers are bigger, faster, stronger and far more difficult to play than those of 60+ years ago. Forget the ‘fearsome’ reputation of quicks such as Larwood (medium fast at best), spinners were considered more of a threat during Bradman’s era, which is why toss-winning captains always chose to bat first. In fact, NOT ONCE BETWEEN 1909 AND 1951 DID ANY TEST CAPTAIN OF ANY COUNTRY ASK THE OPPOSITION TO BAT FIRST. Try bodyline bowling today and the best batsmen would simply keep hooking you for six.
6. Most test matches during the Bradman era were TIMELESS, so no rush, plenty of time to build an innings.
7. Australian pitches were always tailored shirt-fronts favouring batsmen, notably the local hero.
8. Fielding was more of the two-slips-and-a-gulley-and-the-rest-of-you-lads-spread-out variety than today’s careful placements. Neither did fielders dive and slide with the desperation we see now, or back each other up for flip-back returns from the boundary. This alone could have added at least 10 runs to Bradman’s average.
9. With today’s technology batsmen no longer get ‘benefit of the doubt’ decisions of which a hero like Bradman would surely have received more than his fair share.
10. Plain logic. In no other sport can a serious case be made for granddad’s heroes being the equal of today’s. Those who believe otherwise should watch a few football or rugby games from just 20 years ago, never mind 70…
Your turn.
Öskar
Christ, now we’re doing Bradman was no fucking good as well. Seem to remember contributing to that little contretemps on Arseblog some time ago, and was largely the reason I fucked off from there.
Hope this place does n’t continue to dullify itself at its current pace.
Who said he was no fucking good. Esso? He was clearly the best of his time by a country mile. But he did enjoy significant advantages over players from later generations, making stat comparisons illogical. I was making the point to Dr F that stats alone never tell the whole story.
Öskar
What position did Bradman play for us? Wink.
The closest we ever had to Bradman playing for us was Denis Compton, GSD. He played in the 1950 FA Cup final win against Liverpool, the game that made me an Arsenal fan forever after.
Öskar
I never wanted Fabregas back and definitely would not take him over Ozil anytime,any day end of story. He had his time with us, it’s time to let it go, and based on his current performance I sure would not want him near this current team.
Cesc caused us and Arsene massive problems when he chucked his teddy. His attitude in that last season was dreadful. I don’t give a fuck how many through balls he put into the path of Theo, or anyone else for that matter, there is no way I would have wanted him back at Arsenal. That view won’t change even if he now tells the world that he can play the best cut shot or cover drive the world has seen.
My only regret is that I can’t make Sunday where I would have been able to advise the young Spaniard of exactly what I thought.
He was good Esso, but he was no Chris Tavare 🙂
Excellent dialogue Dr Faustus and Oskar between 103 and 105. An excellent, and IMHO accurate, dissection of that period of our history. You lost me when you wandered into that summer variation of ’rounders’ though I have been informed that that Bradman fella was pretty good at it.
For what it’s worth, I believe we are just beginning to see the real Mesut Ozil of whom we have only had glimpses before. Furthermore he is going to deliver far more for this team than a certain DNA spattered prodigal son ever did.
It’s high time we beat those upstarts from the bus stop. Please stick it to them this weekend.
COYG
Simple question, if that dna so and so were to have been in this very team instead of Ozil, would we have been any different to what we are at? or furthermore, would we have been better? For all his contributions and assists, the answer is no. He may have at best got us to the same exact position and then fade away. Ozil is far better in terms of ability and creativity. I am talking here as a football fan and not an Arsenal one and i am pretty certain until and unless you have the costa type forward( said with due respect to Giroud), the dna boy’s contributions would be subdued. That said, jose got his personnel right and hence he is winning the league. He got Costa, got dna to suit him and had courtious to save.
Sunday again feels very familiar. Lot of possession, very good till the final 3rd and a waiting chelshit and hazard. I just for once hope the script does not go the usual way. We need to score first, then see their response. So take the first chance we get, score early and then lets see what they are made off. Also do not concede as soon as we score. Ok enough, can sunday be advanced?????
Oskar @ 107
I’m not quite sure you’ve thought that through very clearly at all. However this is a football blog so I won’t bore the non cricket fans with what I’d like to say in response. In short that is the most ridiculous post I’ve ever seen you make.
Go for it Down under Gooner
It will give us a break from some of the other done-to-death debates….
Incidentally, I see my fellow countryman has had the temerity to diss the great game of cricket @115 above. This from someone who hails from a region where the no 1 sport involves Sheep and rope 😉
DuG – Let me reply for you. Or let this article do it
http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2014/01/29/scabrous-attack-unworthy-australian-hero/
….the authors slag the bowlers of the Bradman era, excepting Larwood and Voce, as “ordinary”. This dismissal applies then to each of Tate, Hammond, Geary, Tyldesley, Peebles, Farnes, Verity, Bowes, Wright, Bedser, Yardley, Laker. In the Sheffield Shield Bradman faced the best Australian bowlers over 20 years. We dismiss each of O’Reilly, Fleetwood-Smith, Grimmett, Toshack, Miller, Johnston as ordinary?
Consider Harold Larwood, a truly magnificent bowler. Bradman and Larwood faced each other in 20 innings over 11 Tests. Bradman scored 1569 runs at an average of 82.58 in those 20 innings. Or was Larwoood also ordinary?
End of argument IMO.
Now… the real questions that matter.
Toast or soup for lunch?
Toast won.
I didn’t have any soup in.
” This from someone who hails from a region where the no 1 sport involves Sheep and rope”
Fear not Bath – over here its called copulation 🙂
Heh Dr F @ 118 and Joe @121 😀
Don’t forget the wellies!
Vinay @ 116 — And he inherited Hazard, just like last time he had inherited a lot of the good players from Ranieri. Hazard is most likely going to be the player of the season in PL.
Oskar @ 107: I had a feeling that you won’t be able to let Bradman example go. 🙂
I was surprised that you didn’t have a go at Brazil or Di Stefano as well.
Had the game of Cricket evolved a lot since his time? Definitely.
Was he the most prolific batsman of his time? Evidently.
Is he among one of the best batsmen of all times? Yes, of course. Why? Because his career statistics is such that it forces that comparison and characterization across time, and despite all the evolution of the game.
That was my point about the supreme relevance of statistics is evaluating sporting excellence. And thanks for proving it.
As DuG and others alluded, your rambling arguments are full of holes but to spare others (apologies Esso) from turning this into one of those Bradman debates we should probably not get into it. I will just mildly raise eyebrows about “sub-continent, renowned graveyard for batting averages” (I can name at least ten batsmen whose batting averages owe their respectability to sub-continent) , chuckle at your selective omission of uncovered pitches and unmonitored condition of the ball, and politely point out that among Bradman’s (99.94) contemporaries with 50+ tests only Sutcliffe (61.84), Hobbs (61.21) and Hammond (64.36) come even close to that number. Hutton (64.20) is next generation. So if batting was all that easier how come there is 35 (!!) point difference in averages to the next line of greats of that era!
BTW, those averages of Sutcliffe et al. are for the most prolific 52-game stretches of their respective careers to compare with Bradman. Their career averages are lesser by a few points.
Don Bradman is a yardstick to measure batsmen, was he the greatest ever cricketer? well rather pick an all rounder who had more than 8000 test runs, 200 plus wickets and around 100 catches, the name is Gary Sobers.
My times are simpler, for me it is Sachin tendulkar but then i am an indian afterall, hahha.
If you have missed it, interesting post on arseblog about Arsenal’s global following based on twitter infographic about regional followers of individual clubs’ twitter accounts. It is not exact as many supporters won’t have twitter and some would probably follow a club just out of a temporary interest (say Chileans for Alexis) but statistically speaking still a relevant datapoint.
http://news.arseblog.com/2015/04/twitter-documents-arsenals-global-support/
Vinay @ 126: I too am an Indian but my favorite batsman of this generation would be Lara. But the sheer consistency — statistics and longevity — of Sachin and success of Ponting would probably make them rank ahead of Lara if one is to make an objective assessment of excellence.
Heh, Arséne on spotting quality in training – “I knew Pires is a quality within 5 minutes of his first training, since Berkgamp kept giving ball to him”
The whole, albeit short interview on .com offers nice insight.
*Bergkamp of course, pesky fingers!
Cheers Doc and Eandy for the heads up about a couple of interesting bits. Ta muchly.
One for cup final day.
Steve Gerrard Gerrard.
He’s taken it very hard.
Sat at home with his birthday cards.
Steve Gerrard Gerrard.
Just saying.
🙂
Heh, that’s bloody excellent, Steve!
Heh! Steve T,
Good stuff – we’ll be getting back to humour in football if you carry on at that rate. 😉
Heh nice one Stevie T. 😀
Have to make sure the Villa boys join in. I’m sure he will be watching.
Is it me or are Atletico the most negative and defensive side there is? A team that largely defends and scores from set pieces and has the spitefulness of their spiv of a manager. Stoke with knobs on. Nice to see them out from a football perspective.
Watched a bit of Monaco too. How annoying was it to lose to them. It still hurts every time I think about that game.
So Barca, Real and Bayern all through to the semis. Just like everyone everywhere expected.
And people wonder why so few can be arsed to watch group stage games these days?
Been saying it for a while and I’ll say it again: the seeding system will eventually kill off the interest for the CL. It has to become more unpredictable or eventually nobody will bother.
Lars – worth noting as well that aside from Chelsea’s jammy as hell win in 2012 (not to mention they are hardly an underdog side these days anyway), there hasn’t been a ‘new’ winner of the European Cup/CL since 1997. It may as well be labelled CLOSED SHOP.
And yet we get in a lather about qualifying for it.
Just saying.
If we had beaten Monaco the discussions would have been different……
Apologies Cynic, but you were answering a ghost! 🙂
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