A Tale Of Two ‘Keepers
Jul 29th, 2015 by 'holic
I have just caught up with Arsene’s press conference from yesterday. The topic of Petr Cech came up, not surprisingly, and the question of whether or not he could improve given the different training regime at Arsenal.
“Petr Cech was already at the top but I believe that you can never deny that you can improve. He’s at the stage of his career, between 33 and 37, where a goalkeeper can be at his peak and he has the desire. As long as you have the right attitude you can always improve in life. I don’t think it’s down to different training methods, it’s just down to him to keep at the top physically and with his experience he will always improve.”
Now that was the response one would have expected but that doesn’t make it any less true. Cech has made his first couple of appearances for the Gunners and looked solid indeed against Everton and Wolfsburg. A run of more competitive games now, starting against his former employers on Sunday, may just bring back the level of performance which he demonstrated for most of his eleven years at the bus stop in Fulham.
If he does then the feel good factor around the club right now may well result in a serious tilt at the major honours in the coming ten months.
As one goalkeeper settles into the Gunners routine so another has jetted off to Rome on a twelve month loan deal. Wojciech Szczesny’s behaviour after the match at Southampton last season has been fairly accurately documented. When Cech was signed some thought that the Pole may be retained to work on his game with one of the best goalkeepers of the last decade, or because he qualified as homegrown.
However it would appear that Arsene has decided it would do both parties some good if Wojciech worked on his game, and his attitude, with another club. The announcement of his loan said that he had joined AS Roma for the opportunity of regular first-team football. On the Roma website Wojciech himself spoke frankly about what prompted the move.
“I had a difficult time last year – I’m the first person to admit that. I didn’t have the best of seasons, that’s why things have turned out the way they have, but I’m grateful because it gives me the opportunity to join Roma this season.”
More telling though was a hint at where he feels his future may lie, which ties in with some of the rumblings around the club that Arsene has lost confidence in his young charge.
“I don’t want to focus on just getting experience here and going back to Arsenal. I didn’t come here just to go back to Arsenal after one year.”
It will be interesting to see what happens next summer if Wojciech can hold own a starting berth in Rome.
Cheers for now, ‘holics.
123 Responses to “A Tale Of Two ‘Keepers”
Cheers Guvna.
Excellent and very relevant analysis by Ned’s monks @184 in the previous drinks for anyone wishing to understand the possible rationale for this summer’s GK decisions. Worth a back drink if you haven’t seen it.
Cheers, Holic.
Personally I couldn’t see Woj remaining at the club just “to learn” from Cech.
Had he remained as a No 2, he would have acquired none of the all inportant experience needed by a keeper when his turn came to take over. He is already 25 and should by now be first choice, wherever that is to be.
Nice piece Guv’nor. Proper football minus eleven days.
COYG
*explains to bath about the coat stand and beermat*
cech’s lollipop?
stickin’ to him or not?
Top 8! Nice one Guv’!
Trev @137, and various others from the previous bar, hee hee hee. You smug cunt!
Regarding Woj, I have to say that I’m glad he’s gone on loan for some reflective time away from the club; but it might also be related to his European Championships place ahead of our former charge Fab at the Swans.
Woj is not a worldy goalkeeper yet for a top club, but he has always thought that he was because he was given the mantle. He has many technical flaws but not least of all his kicking and distribution aligned with his lapses of concentration. If he improves these at Roma, our new feeder club for failing/failed projects (cf. Gervinho) as it’s now appearing to be becoming, all well and good for us, but if he fails, no great loss. Ospina’s more than a capable understudy to the worldy Cech with the young Martinez ready to learn from both, especially from the already written and guaranteed Cech!
Up the Arse!
Top 6! Woo hoo! LWCs utopia!
Manchester United position.
I don’t think those stats had anything to with the decision to let Woj go on loan.
First of all, Ospina’s stats are from such a small sample that absolutely no conclusions whatsoever can be drawn from those stats alone.
Secondly, Martinez apart (whose four games are certainly nowhere near enough of a basis on which to draw conclusions) Woj is the only one of the keepers listed whose entire career has been at the club. All others have come to the club as more or less established keepers which will most likely have enhanced their statistics. The all also played for the club when we were in less turmoil and with generally speaking better teams, the last two seasons excepted of course. But then again, in 13/14 no keeper had more clean sheets than Woj, if we want to turn to such stats.
But goalkeeping stats are almost uniformely rubbish, if you ask me. Or at least those we usually see, like saves percentages and number of clean sheets. For example, up until last season, we played an almost suicidally high line for a few seasons resulting in stuff like conceding 6, 5 and 6 in three games last season – 17 goals of which none at all were down to Wojciech Szczesny. Add to that the 8 goals at Old Trafford when the whole team was in tatters due to injuries, suspensions and players having left and take away the 25 goals those four outliers contributed and his goals per game average is almost exactly 1.0 goals per game.
Do I think Arsene made the right decision? Despite what the above may lead you to think, I do. And that is for one reason only: Arsene knows Woj a million times better than any of us do. And I have maintained all along that goalkeeping abilities aren’t enough if you’ve lost your way off the pitch. Maybe Arsene feels that sending Woj away will bring more stability to the club, and while the move may give Woj a taste for pastures new that is a risk we might have to take.
I suspect we will never see Woj again in an Arsenal jersey . If that’s the case I wish him well at a very good club but I’ve felt for a couple of seasons he has been very fallible and as Bath said Ned’s table was very indicative. A couple of times I looked at games where he had conceded and while little was said because we won easily, Ned’s stats back up the fact that he could be sloppy. It’s a tough one because goalkeepers need big cojones ( certainly too big to be covered with a beer mat- see last drinks) but they need to be prepared to learn as well.
I think Woj had a bit too much of the TGSTEL about him. Maybe TGGTEL
It’s not quite true to suggest there is little Arsenal news about today. Andries Jonker is bringing a lot of new players into the Youth teams. If JRA is any indication of the quality it could be very exciting but boy do you have to be good to get into our midfield! Crowley and Gnabry are to go on loan and that may aid Zelalem too.
We signed a striker from Ajax and a French lad from under the nose of Citeh today . Maybe he looked at the way youngsters get treated in terms of first team opportunities and shunned their cheque book.
The classic Arsenal matches thing on BT Sport was a bit disappointing (it only showed two games) but I found myself watching the second match, the 1996 League Cup quarter final with Newcastle, and wincing at tackles, laughing at Les Ferdinand, going “Ooooh, ya bastard” at near misses, celebrating the goals and abusing Ginola.
This was the game where Dixon roughed Ginola up throughout to the point where he lumped him in retaliation and got sent off, with Rioch squaring up to Terry McDermott and the entire Newcastle bench.
Classic stuff indeed. Got the blood pumping anyway.
Saddo lol.
Lars9: You make fair points about goalkeeping stats. However, they are not worthless. I would take them, as someone said in the previous drinks, as ‘indicative’ if not much more. To a certain extent goalkeepers are only as good as the defence in front of them. Cech’s goals conceded per game ratio wouldn’t be as low as it is if he hadn’t spent so many season playing behind the Chavs’ miserly back four.
One point on Woj’s future: I understand that Arsenal excluded an option-to-buy clause from the year-long loan deal with Roma. He is under contract with Arsenal until June 2018. So he’ll come back from Roma with two seasons left on his contract. That gives AW time to decide if Woj does have a long-term future at Arsenal without the immediate pressure of him leaving on a free.
A look at how much experience similar 24/25/26-year-old keepers have, shows Borussia Monchengladbach’ s Swiss international Yann Sommer with 344 senior games, Borussia Dortmund’s Roman Burki, another Swiss international, with 226, PSG’s German Kevin Trapp with 204. Ajax’s Dutch international Jasper Cillessen with 153, Juventus’s Brazilian Neto with 137, Zenit St. Petersburg’s Russian international Yuri Liodygin with 114 and Lyon’s Portugal international Anthony Lopes with 102. Woj has played 209 with 28 of those in League One. Ospina, who is only a year older, has played 233 games plus more than 50 for Colombia. So Woj would seem to be at the point in his career where he should be starting regularly.
*Wonders what drills AW has to perfect technique of lurking in the box.*
Sorry to hear about you catching crabs in the last drinks, Trev. I have no personal experience but understand a mousse of pyrethrins and piperonyl butoxide usually does the trick. 😉
Öskar
You can stand down the lurking, guys, enough is enough.
Öskar
Yeah! Forget lurking. Ruddy lurking. And nuisance lurkers. And woeful re-lurkers.
We should be discussing the important Arsenal issues of the day. Y’know, the huge, Arsenal-based topics of the moment. The massive, in-your-face unavoidable talking points and where we all stand on them.
Oh, wait, hang on…
*thinks about coming out*
Cynic
I taped the BT Sport programme.
I wasn’t at the first game with Forest ( Brian Talbot’s debut !) and unfortunately ended things thinking what a brilliant striker in that era Stapleton was.
I remember the Newcastle game well. The going over Dixon gave Ginola was quite something and the off the ball retaliation from the French Show Pony was typically sly and would have gone unpunished but for the linesman. Wrighty was brilliant and we had a defence that really could soak up punishment then and was as hard as nails but they might have had to ‘ moderate ‘ their game in current conditions ! Nutty Winterburn was yellow- carded for a classic tackle from behind even though he got the ball first. Not feasible nowadays.
You don’t realise how much the game has changed. I occasionally watch the 5-0 at the Lane and several red cards would have been handed out in that game.
*pokes head in. sees a half-hidden Pangloss deep in thought. assumes he is pondering the double-meanings certain phrases carry. goes back to the cricket*
*looks at Pangloss in a different light…….. senses Pangloss hopes it is a fetching one*
*coughs – “Hharsenal !” – wishes cba would turn up and man the place up a bit *
Morning Gooners!
Bloody transfer connects are getting their bloomers twisted!
That’s all I can say for now. 🙁
Glad to see Abou at a decent (better than West Brom and not in the EPL) Club! Apparently the Scouser made a last ditch attempt! Mwarhf! 😆
Really?
Marseille is one of the top clubs in France. Only the best is good enough for our Loyal soldier Abou. I wish him all of the best and more!
Good Ole Woij. I can’t remember who in the bar said it, but I too hope that he has a ‘Courtois-like’ experience at Roma and comes back buzzing. Although saying that, that wouldn’t be too fair on our new ‘hopeful-hero’ Cech, or the ‘awfully nice personality’ Ospina. Besides, I could imagine the sort of headache that, that would cause the Proff!
Things are pretty safe for now! I hope they remain so (He says)
Just two more sleeps Gooners! 😉
#What are they smoking over at Stamford Bridge?
Doubles entendres, GSD? Moi?
I also sense Woj’s time is up with us and for his own good a time away from the intense scrutiny would help. Will he ever come back? i am not sure and do not think so he will.
Most names linked are being ruled out and it does make me wonder if thats that for the window. 2 players short are we not? atleast the Dm part is well documented and the striker is well debated too.
Not sure if the rumours are true that Danny maybe out longer than expected and if so,that is sad.
I am sad for Wojnech as I truly think he loves Arsenal as much as we do, but he had made some silly mistakes and I do believe that his concentration was not as it should have been, that said I wish him all the very best for the future.
As for Abou, I have nothing but sadness and respect for him, that such a promising career should be devastated by the thugs of the premier league is terrible, he now has a chance to rebuild his career and a more than likely chance of avoiding such terrible challenges now he is out of the EPL.
Not long to go now my fellow gooners and we will get a taste of the season to come.
Come on you rip roaring free scoring never boring glorious Arsenal!!!!
How is everyone doing. Quick question, am trying to get the new Puma jersey, having problem deciding what size to get. I was wearing a small size with the former Nike jersey. Do I need to get same size or get a Medium size of Puma. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated, thanks.
http://mufffestival.com/
.
donegal the place to be this weekend
big signs welcome you to muff
there are muff amusements
a muff filling station
and
should you be fijian
a muff barbers
and to put the tin lid on the biscuits
highland radio are broadcasting live from muff
.
sure where else would ye be
.
see ye all there
.
.
UP THE ARSENAL !
almost forgot
for the snorkellers out there
http://www.muffdivingclub.ie/
.
slainte
heh @ cba
Gentlemen, believe it or not that link is safe for work.
Great tee-shirts.
indeed bath
as if i’d ever send a gooner up a dark alley
.
grand place
been there many times
it’s only wee but
very welcoming
though in accordance with parish council guidelines
I would urge you not to speed through it
.
have fun
tell ’em i sent ye
.
Arsene Wenger must be very, very sad to see Abou Diaby leave having had no chance to show his true ability. Well, one chance at Liverpool where he absolutely ran the game and looked a class above.
I remember hearing, at the time Diaby was signed, that AW was elated at having signed, in his opinion, the best young French player of his generation.
How sad that he (Diaby), and we, were denied the chance to see it all come to fruition by a thug whose own footballing talent saw him earn a permanent move into a call centre.
I can especially sympathise with Diaby as my own moderately promising football ‘career’ was prematurely ended by another thug who stamped through the side of my knee as one of his team mates was giving me a hand up off the floor.
Sometimes there is just no way back however hard you try. Diaby’s chances back in France are poor. Hopefully he can finally find a way.
cba, I might just follow your recommendation. I see it’s just a long paddle from Lagavulin.
Cheers guv.
Was always a fan of Woj myself and think he’s got a pretty harsh deal from many. Yes he made mistakes, but some of the criticism seems a bit overboard to me. The season before last he was tremendous and saved us many times, joint Golden Glove winner which he very well may of had on his own if AW hadn’t let Flappy play in the last game of the season as warm up for the F.A Cup.
I remember at the time posting that Cech would be the only keeper I’d even consider replacing him with, but that was nonsense as the Chav’s would never let him join us……….
Funny ol’ game.
Personally I hope he does well at Roma, get’s his head together and comes back to fight for his place. Time will tell I suppose.
San An’
If I were you I’d check the net for your nearest Puma Store and pay a visit. There are tight fit and reguar fit shirts, big difference, plus I doubt very much that the Puma sizes are the same as Nike (but that’s a guess) so would advise to try one on before you buy.
Heh @ Muff Diving Club.
Double heh, that it’s actually legit. 😆
Thanks H2H..
Heh! At the Muff Diving Club and their website.
Written by some very cunning linguists 😉
SanAntonio: the Puma shirts are pretty similar in size to the Nike ones. Well, not the players’ edition but unless you are stupidly fit you won’t want to wear one of those!
Lars- Thanks. wish I was as fit as the players.
Isaac Hayden rumored to be going to Hull City on loan to play there as defensive midfielder this season. If so, our need to sign a defensive midfielder has intensified.
If all these youngsters have to go on loan to get playing time, why don’t the Premiership clubs push for their ‘B’ teams to play in the Football League in the same way the top Spanish clubs play their B teams in the lower divisions?
How would that work, Ned@42? Would clubs be able to shift players between A and B squads during the season or only when the transfer window was open?
I don’t think it’s a bad idea for some of the young players to go and experience a ‘lesser’ club and see how fortunate they are to be at a club like Arsenal.
Also, which clubs would have to drop out of the lower leagues to make way for those B teams. It would quite possibly mean the end for some of them which would be very tough on their life-long supporters.
Can’t believe I have not been given an honorary degree from the Muff Diving Club! 🙁
To reduce the number of A teams perhaps they could kick out little clubs based within kicking distance of major clubs … as in N London.
Then again that would cost us a heap of laughs … bad idea!
Öskar
back from europe, getting over jetlag.
here’s a nice article on aaron: http://www.espnfc.us/blog/espn-fc-united-blog/68/post/2542197/arsenal-aaron-ramsey-aims-to-be-a-future-captain-of-club
excellent pieces lately, ‘holic. and the guest posts, too!
cheers for the birthday wishes from all who sent them, and the compliments on my posts about going to the grove. what a place!
back home, back at work, ready for chelsea sunday. i surely hope a ball cannons off moaninho’s face, at the least.
and cba at 28, i’m thinking you’re going to need pangloss to sort out some of those double entendres.
chuckling at “a muff filling station”. we called those “couches” when i was younger…
O-dog, maybe the PL should swap the MLS “All-Stars” team with that little club in N London. I think somewhere in North Dakota might be a good fit for the tiny totts…
And I apologize in advance if I’ve offended anybody from North Dakota.
My grandson’s academy team visited WHL for a stadium tour yesterday.
When I enquired about it he said it was much quicker than the similar trip he had made to the Emirates at Easter.
I explained it was the absence of a trophy room that speeded things up!
Pangloss@43: I would imagine a club’s A and B teams would operate independently. Both teams would register their squad at the beginning of a season and players could only be ‘transfered’ between the two during the windows. Usual rules about players being Cup-tied would apply. B teams could be promoted and relegated up and down the league pyramid but would not be allowed to play in the same or a higher division than their club’s A team. Mandatory relegation or non-promotion of the B team in that event, with a replacement club being promoted from the lower division. Not sure what would happen in the case of a club’s A and B teams being drawn against each other in a Cup competition but no doubt a rule could be devised. In Spain, B teams are just not allowed to enter the Copa del Rey: it is one entry per club. The Football League would need to expand, probably by a division in the first instance to accommodate the additional teams, or split one of its lower divisions regionally to make room. I don’t know how many Premiership and Championship clubs would want to enter B team, given the cost, but there should be enough to make it viable. B teams would be required to play home games at their parent club’s main ground (I am assuming the fixture lists could be made to work and the pitches take the wear and tear), which might make the idea financially attractive to some lower division clubs.
45 ‘hol
.
i’ll look into it
twas probably just an undersight on their part
NBN@51 – Thanks for the clarification.
A general principle that the league is a competition between teams while the cup is one between clubs, such as you suggest above, is reasonable and the regulations you propose would allow the league to operate along those lines. I fear, however, that it would help some clubs to hoover up an excessive proportion of the available talent and that is something that I would prefer not to happen. I’m not at all sure how allowing clubs to enter more than one team into the league would improve matters otherwise to offset against my fears, so I am vaguely against it.
I really do have some difficulty working out what I think about the potential to hoover up more than a club’s “fair share” of talent, and how level a playing field I really want for clubs to operate upon.
(There is an argument that all the oil money flowing into the game is a Good Thing, because it allows clubs such as Chelsea and Manchester City to break the previous near-monopoly of success enjoyed by two or three clubs. I find that argument hard to refute, although since Arsenal was one of those two or three clubs I would very much like to refute it.
I believe that Arsenal’s behaviour has been qualitatively better way than that of Manchester United or Liverpool, and considerably more so than of Chelsea or Mancheser City and I’m sure most (if not all) of the drinkers here agree, but I’m not sure how I would explain that difference to a visitor from Mars, far less to a supporter of one of those clubs or even a neutral. Obviously, I could cite Arsenal’s “self-sustaining model” and their wiser investment in facilities, youth etc., but I’m not certain how that Arsenal come to be in a position to make those investments unless it was by exploiting a previous tide of money swilling around the system.)
I will attempt to retire into the background (possibly behind a coat rack) as I wrestle with these matters. I am sure that a period of silence while I do so will be welcome, to quote Atlee.
Proper football minus nine days.
COYG
So both Santi and Feo extended their contracts..good stuff 🙂
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150731/cazorla-and-walcott-sign-new-deals
Yay!
😀
https://twitter.com/theowalcott/status/627070907215966208/photo/1
🙂
*sees that Cynic and Eandy have beaten him to the news of the two contract extensions – notes that King GT is strangely absent in the presemce of actual, real news – heads back to the beach*
*so has BB*
Fixture changes for October and November
October 17 – Watford vs Arsenal (5.30pm) Sky Sports
October 24 – Arsenal vs Everton (5.30pm) Sky Sports
November 8 – Arsenal vs Tottenham Hotspur (4pm) Sky Sports
November 29 – Norwich City vs Arsenal (4.15pm) Sky Sports
Walcott and Cazorla sign new improved shiny contracts, and AW comments:
“As well as their huge contributions on the pitch, they both have a great deal of experience and are very popular off the pitch.”
I didn’t know that type of off-pitch experience could earn you an extra 50K quid each week. 😉
Advice taken guys. I have signed da ting!
*boilk*
I am not sure I’m in a state capable of writing my own name. Glad Theo and Santi have managed it though. Great news.
UTA
HMBD (hangovers…)
Every thing in the garden looks quite rosy at the moment, contracts signed, England poised for victory at Birmingham I hope, weather set fare for the weekend and footie on Sunday.
All I need is a good day at Newmarket tomorrow, annual OAP racing day with my retired ex- colleagues. Picnic in the car park and a fun day out with the odd winner, I hope.
The best thing about Sunday apart from an Arsenal win, is the meeting up with football friends from the various stations along the King’s Lynn -Kings Cross line. Seems a long time since we last met.
My Bellerin shirt has just been delivered by Parcel Force must be an omen for Sunday, Arsene he had better play!
COYRs
Don’t like the ides of an Arsenal B team in the league, as Trev said, it would destroy too many other “local” teams. Plus it would be an even bigger reason for the financialy doped to stockpile talent. The Chavs have just as many players out on loan as they do in their squad as it is. That can’t be right, but would only get worse with a B team.
‘Da thing’ is signed. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/20893347
I am not sure that the argument that allowing B teams play in the league would make much if any difference to the moneybags clubs hoovering up all the young talent; they do it anyway. If anything you could constrain it by banning loans and then capping the squad size for B teams.
Happy about the signing but not sure on the nitty gritty. Santi a two year contract? well which is close to 3 seasons, the class will sustain but will the legs do so/ he will be rotated knowing the depth of the squad but will he accept being a part player from next season?
Theo apparently on 140k a week. That is as much as Ozil and more than Sanchez. Well not to compare but that just sounds wrong. I agree if he stays fit, he will have a 20 goal season and that is money well spent but then isnt there a thing as to reward on returns? Again the policy of retaining what we have is a policy i accept but do feel this is paying the highest dollar to do so, atleast our standards. Again not complaining and maybe the market is as such that we need to pay the highest to retain the best. I will be delirious if Theo sicores 25 goals and Santi has 25 assists and we win the league, who cares about the money then, pay them bonus as well please.
let the games begin, as always want us to beat them, as always worried what if we lose to them. It is so much a psychological thing than just a game, so come on you gunners.
delia@63, i rode the train from king’s cross to cambridge to my sister-in-law’s place, and the last four cars were headed to king’s lynn. i thought of you. what a beautiful route, especially if it’s been a beautiful rout by the gunners 🙂
good luck with the oap races!
Cynic, Manure fixture was also changed, from Saturday to Sunday 4 Oct at 1600.
Doh, I didn’t see it on the list. Ta, BJ
One to keep an eye out for, Holic.
Wilko Johnson is playing the Cambridge Folk Festival as I type, and that usually gets shown on Sky Arts. No idea when and there’s a service fault in my area so I can’t use the search, but just a heads up anyway.
Doh… it’s on next Saturday (8th) at 9pm.
Sometimes I love the TV companies.
Mrs TTG had arranged for us to go to a dinner of a charity she works for which would have prevented me from attending the Liverpool game. it would have meant swapping Alexis Sanchez for Anne Widdicombe.
As I am at the Oval on Friday and Sunday I had to suck that one up but mercifully its been switched to Monday night. In October I’m at a fundraising dinner with the chap I go to games with. It clashed with the United game-but thankfully it doesn’t now. But it does mean we have very few 3pm kick-offs on a Saturday
OAP racing
if it’s well regulated
i see no problem
.
“I’ll have a tenner on the grey mare”
*hides from delia*
Heh! @cba. 🙂
TTG. – what is a Saturday 3pm kick off ?
Bet you can’t remember the last one ………..
Crowley and Hayden loans confirmed, Barnsley and Hull, respectively.
cba@74: 🙂
I’m in sunny Devon at the moment but I believe the Liverpool game will now be on Monday 24th – according to the above … ?
If so, there’s work to be rescheduled already. Saturday at 3.00pm was invented for football with results and reports on the radio on the way home.
An almost unknown occurrence for Arsenal fans these days.
The Mickeys will be chuffed with Monday at 8.00pm. You could almost feel sorry for them.
Not quite, though. 😉
Follow Jon Toral’s loan to Birmingham.
Ned, Hayden to Hull ……
Mixing with all those ex-Spuds is going to do him no good at all. 🙁
Picture of fixtures changing.
http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TFH/Projects/FH12JUN_REPFIX_01.JPG
(Suitable for mixed (up) company.)
8 Ball – as one who is nearing the end of a major/gut renovation of his abode, your fixture link made me laugh. And cry….
Proper football indeed. Wheew… is about time.
Liking the look and confidence oozing from Feo these days. I say he nets 20+ goals this campaign.
The interesting loan is Akpom to Hull which contradicts Wenger’s earlier decision to keep him in the squad. I think he needs games but I’d prefer him to be in the Premier League- what’s wrong with Norwich? Maybe he wouldn’t be guaranteed enough game time there.
Conspiracy theorists might feel that we might be signing another striker with Akpom going.
Homer – Theo will score twenty goals if he plays enough games but he usually misses so many through injury. That’s the problem. If we can get 30 league games from Theo, Ramsey and Ox I will be astonished and delighted and we will have a great chance of the league
Homer.
Glad to be doing my part. 🙂
I meant 30 each not in total!
Some curious stats about Chuba Akpom:
Previous loans:
Notts Forest: Played 7; Goals 0
Coventry City: Played 6; Goals 0
Brentford: Played 4; Goals 0
And for Arsenal:
Played 9, Goals 0
Arsenal U-21s: Played 40; Goals 28
Arsenal U-19s: Played 6; Goals 4
Anyone in the bar able to make any sense of all this?
Add to the above his England record:
U-20s: Played 8; Goals 4
U-19s: Played 13; Goals 6
U-17s: Played 13; Goals 5
Yes Ned, he’s the new JE-T.
🙂
Reading AW’s comments on Akpom from July 15, there is clearly an confidence problem. http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20150715/wenger-on-akpom-wilshere-and-singapore
He’s a good talent but he has to work and show that (confidence) in [the big] games.
It’s down to performance and attitude. He has that grade to make between being a big talent and … an efficient talent week in, week out. — a bit garbled but the idea comes through.
Perhaps Wenger thinks Akpom needs regular football to instill the confidence a striker needs, regular football that he won’t get if he stays with the first-team squad regardless of whether a big-name signing comes in or not.
“bigger boys came and stole my confidence , boss”
.
chuba
aged 7and3/4
.
Interesting comparison, Cynic. JE-T’s time at Ipswich wasn’t overly impressive (nine goals in 76 games) but he did better at Bristol City (33 goals in 103 games, and helped them to promotion). Will be informative to see what he does now he has moved to QPR. At 24, it is probably the make or break move for his opportunity to get back to the Premiership. He had a reputation at Arsenal for being too laid back. Akprom’s issue seem to be more confidence, however.
sheesh
change yer rubber sheets
Football is no country for young men, cba.
it is
just not daisies
*gasses up the bolt thrower*
If I wanted a country of young men I would consult the UN statistics. Probably end up in deepest Africa.
In the very limited amount of time I’ve seen Akpom in first team action, he seems to lack a bit physically. That’s not really surprising given his age but it is not helpful to a striker trying to play against hardened professionals, compared to those playing in younger age group football.
Whether he is lacking confidence, desire or simply strength I don’t know but the end effect is that he struggles at first team level.
I have to say Theo’s new salary surprised even me a little. Does it perhaps indicate another loosening of the purse strings? Until recently it wasn’t just the transfer fees others pay for marquee players that we couldn’t or wouldn’t match, but also their exotic salaries. And when deciding on a move a player is surely more interested in what a club will pay to him than for him?
But if Theo can command £140k a week perhaps we are now entering a new phase in the club’s expansion when the sky’s the limit for the right player. I can’t make up my mind whether this would be a good thing or not. So long as the business model remains the same I guess it’s probably fine.
Öskar
In off the post
Beautifully executed, H2H.
And nicely Tabsed, Oskar. Are you Wolfie in disguise?
Oskar @ 99: There is some speculation that part of Theo’s image rights are owned by the club which if true would compensate for the somewhat eyebrow-raising wage. A speculation I heard, and I don’t know how exactly the details of the commercial deals work out for Arsenal players (i.e., whether there is a single template or player-by-player basis etc.) so don’t really have any opinion about this …
NBN @ 90: Maybe it is the first goal at senior level that would give him that extra confidence? Sanogo joined us with a rather amazing goals-per-game ratio at youth level for club and country, and despite being played quite a few times he didn’t score any goals in his first year before scoring four in Emirates cup, and I thought that added a bit of composure and confidence as he showed for the goal against Dortmund.
Akpom is technically very good, has genuine speed and unlike JET in his later days at Arsenal evidently much more hungry (as his performances show, no lack of effort) … I thought one of the recently promoted clubs in PL could have found him useful. Maybe Arsene thinks Steve Bruce (still Hull manager, right?) is someone he can trust to guide Chuba and Hayden?
If Akpom plays regularly at Hull and starts scoring, and Afobe continues his excellent form for Wolves…comparisons about their relative qualities at this stage of the career would be made. Afobe is a bit senior, of course. If Afobe continues his form, stays injury free, maybe there is a way for him to eventually come back to the club?
Would also be interesting to see where Campbell ends up. Apparently David Moyes wants him in Real Sociedad to join Vela who continues to grow in La Liga. After his permanent move, 39 goals in league 102 appearances playing primarily on the wings is a very decent record , playing for a club that is typically around #10 position…earning a few La Liga player of the month awards in the process.
It’s the last pointless pre-season tourny, with trophy, tomorrow – which I shall be attending with, and courtesy of, my more irritating sp*d mate. After that it’s only seven more sleeps until Proper Football ™.
Get in!
Good move for Hayden (and possibly Chuba).
But does Bruce look like a Senator of medieval Rome?
As for Theo’s wages, there are a few things we need to remember.
One: as far as I can tell the 140K per week comes from David Ornstein who said the contract is “worth 140K per week”. Note the “worth” – this most likely includes a sign-on bonus calculated in what it would be per week if paid as wages. Most likely there are also other bonuses tied to appearances (Theo does have a rather poor track record when it comes to staying fit) and staying for the duration of the contract.
Two: even if he has 140K per week and that makes him one of the best paid players at the club (allegedly only Alexis ahead of him), let’s not forget that Özil who is said to now be on less money that Theo is on a contract which is now two years old and likely to be about to be renewed in the coming year and that this current contract was signed before the new massive TV deal. Also, Cazorla is likely to be paid at least as much as Theo is with his extension. Aaron Ramsey is also on a contract that has been running for a while and is likely to be in line for an extension quite soon and if so will almost certainly be above Theo in wages. Et cetera.
Three: if it was all about money for Theo, he could easily have gone to Liverpool and probably have been paid in excess of £200.000 per week.
Four: while Theo has issues to work on in his game he is still an established Premier League player who when on his game can rip pretty much any defence to pieces. How much do you think we would have had to pay for a player of equal or better quality to replace him – not even considering the transfer fee?
Five: Theo is home grown, and also qualifies for the stricter Champions League criteria of “club-trained” (“home grown” in the CL is called “association-trained” but is otherwise exactly the same thing) which has the added condition that a player must have been at the club in question and not just in the country for three years between 15 and 21. This, by the way, is something that will effectively reduce Manchester City’s Champions League squad size to 21 senior players as iirc not even Joe Hart qualifies as “club-trained”.
So yes, 140K per week does seem a bit much, but when you consider the whole picture we probably got him quite cheaply. Wellm cheaply in relative terms of course, for any one of us in the real world outside of football it is absolutley amazingly silly money to be paid for having a kickabout!
…and further to what I said about Man City, note that they have to put Raheem Sterling on the A list (i.e. the senior and home grown players) as he hasn’t been at Man City long enough to be listed as an under-21 player so he’ll have to take up one of the home grown places. So with Joe Hart, Fabian Delph, Raheem Sterling and Gaël Clichy already in the squad they’ve reached their limit. Now, if they don’t have 17 “unrestricted” players they can of course still have more home grown players but that would still limit their overall squad size to 21.
(for anyone who wants to read the rules, they can be found here, starting on pg 39:
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/23/57/51/2235751_DOWNLOAD.pdf)
Lars,
Great points about Theo and I understand your logic fully. After all – we’re operating in a time when someone like Sterling can command a fee of £50m so in some respects, 140k a week is a cheaper option for the club.
While I understand that these are the times in which the club operates – I still don’t fully agree but everyone on here knows where I sit on Theo.
For me Arseblogger sums it up perfectly by contrasting the deal that Cazorla has earned due to his brilliant performances week in – week out as opposed to the deal Theo got due to his contract expiring where he still has so much to prove after 9 years at the club. There are still big questions to be answered by Theo which is why he divides the fan base so much.
Personally, I would have sold him and used the money to buy someone else. But I’m not entirely disappointed that he has been retained either. I do think he could be a useful squad player but if I’m honest, thats all I think he’ll ever be. I also feel the 140k a week is, as you point out, the value of his total contract including “image rights” as opposed to his standard wage per week. But even so, it still just demonstrates the utter madness that exists in football these days so say that we could pay so much to someone who has delivered so little.
I am not particularly concerned with how much Theo earns. I don’t know the ins and outs of the deal and would not be the right person to make a useful analysis anyway.
My general feeling is that this is simply the way football finances are going and I agree with those pointing out that this is an outlier deal after the TV money has come in but that once its effect has washed through the league then this deal will be unremarkable.
And the odds on Theo to top score in the league this year are pretty good if you fancy taking a chance on his fitness…
Lars, Joe,
Two excellent posts.
Personally, I drift down on Joe’s side of the fence as it’s so hard to imagine Theo staying fit for a month let alone a season. I would live him to do it and fulfill all that potential but ………
No Lars, I don’t want to read the rules from P39 but you do a great job of explaining them and their implications for Abu Dhabi Inc. So if you could, maybe, drop in and repost them once a month to,
a) remind me and others for general interest and so that we can
b) have a bloody good laugh at City and United and understand exactly why they are bombing out of the Champions League again.
Cheers. 🙂
Petr Cech has let slip on .com that he used to play left wing. As the season progresses I fully expect Arsene to give him a run out there then. Wink.
AW want to build the new year 2015-2016 based on success with less riddle as possible , and wouldn’t want Theo to leave .
This is a small extra price to pay to keep harmony
Montreal,
I think AW is passed the point where he would keep a player on £140k per week purely for reasons of harmony although he does value that quality highly. I imagine he decided to pay Theo that money because he believes he can deliver.
It’s based on nothing but gut feel but I think we will see Benzema in an Arsenal shirt this season. I’m not saying it’s a good or bad thing but I do think it will happen. There’s too much noise around Benzema’s future and I heard Bob Wilson say two or three years ago that Arsene had put in a £50 million bid for him that was unsuccessful at the time. And that was when we had no money !
My first and last bit of tittle-tattle for the summer ……
Passed = past. 🙁
Am I TTG in disguise ?
Hmm… Dodgy knees… Anuone evrr seen ttg snd Trev at the same time?
Trev, if you promise to remind me to remind you I will remind you!
Joe: I do think he could be a useful squad player but if I’m honest, thats all I think he’ll ever be.
I don’t think so either, but he is now at the age where if he’s ever going to be a top player it will happen pretty much now. And to be fair, if he does finally find more consistency then 140K per week will seem a bargain. And GSD also expands on what I believe we’ll see in the very near future, i.e. that the new TV deal will simply raise the overall wages and that Theo just happens to be one of the first to benefit from that. I expect the first contract for £500K a week to happen within not very long at all, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see it happen tomorow.
Joe, I see I got my negatives a bit muddled up – what I was trying to say is that I agree wit you 🙂
Lars,
Getting your negatives a bit muddled up is not one to try in Boots (the chemist). 😉
*ponders the chances of that meaning anything whatsoever to a Swede*
😉
Clue for Lars – it’s a photographic joke,
which is now ruined anyway.
*heads back to beach*
August start to the Scottish Premier League.
Celtic 1 Ross County 0 in the first half.
Can real football be far away?
Brilliant to see the quality of the posts from the usual suspects as we get nearer the start of meaningful football.
Thanks all. 🙂
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>