Hopefully, A Reality Cech
Aug 24th, 2015 by 'holic
The evening started with a surprise couple of selections in the centre of the defence due to Laurent Koscielny being ruled out by injury and Per Mertesacker by illness. Calum Chambers and Gabriel were chosen to start, and would go on to have a torrid first-half, particularly young Calum.
The uncertainty in the Gunners rearguard was evident with barely two minutes on the clock as Coutinho hit the bar. Arsenal responded when Alexis headed narrowly over from a Nacho Monreal cross.
We might have struck again when first Ozil, and then Sanchez, failed to take advantage of the dithering Skrtel in front of goal. The opening phase was end to end and in the eighth minute Aaron Ramsey was denied what would have proved to be the match winner by a wrongly raised assistant’s flag. It prompted Liverpool, and Coutinho in particular, to respond and control the remainder of the half.
That was made easier by the surprising number of misplaced passes as nerves visibly gripped a number of the younger Gunners. Francis Coquelin became an increasingly impressive presence and made two significant challenges as Liverpool threatened. One misplaced pass aside he looked back to the Coquelin of last season, and a crucial player to have on a competitive night like this.
In the 33rd minute Gabriel denied Coutinho at the expense of a corner, and as the half drew to a close Petr Cech had to be at his best denying Benteke at point blank range, then finger-tipping a wonderful Coutinho effort onto the far post. Those saves were to win him the Sky Sports man of the match award.
Quite what the manager and his staff must have said at half-time we can only imagine, but thankfully it had an effect of sorts. There is no doubt that the second-half belonged to Arsenal, and as Coutinho dominated before the break so did Ozil and Cazorla afterwards.
On the hour Giroud put in Alexis who smacked his effort into the near post. The Chilean isn’t quite back to his best, but you cannot fault his effort and desire, even if his distribution needs work. When he does click again, we could go on a serious run.
Slowly the chances arrived. Put in by a Ramsey pass, Giroud was denied by Mignolet, and the Frenchman had strong claims for a penalty when Lucas stamped on his foot in another attack. With eighteen minutes remaining Theo Walcott was introduced for the luckless Giroud, rather than as support for him. Then Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain came on for the last ten minutes, replacing the impressive Coquelin. It was a gamble that didn’t quite reap dividends on the night, but could have.
Ramsey’s deflected effort was just about kept out by Mignolet as Arsenal turned the screw, and moments later the Ox fired wide when Liverpool failed to deal with a corner. The Liverpool ‘keeper finally received a yellow card for time-wasting with six minutes remaining. It was long overdue. Referees seem to put up with this until the closing stages of so many games. It isn’t offered in any way as an excuse, more an observation. Tackle it earlier and much frustration may be avoided in tense situations?
In the last of four added minutes the Ox tested Mignolet again but the resulting save ensured the unlikeliest of 0-0 draws. We can feel both relief that our first-half uncertainty did not result in Liverpool claiming all three points, as well as frustration at the disallowed goal that would have proved to be decisive. Asked for the positives from the night, apart from his own performance, the man of the match offered the expected response.
“We played more in the Liverpool half in the second-half which is obviously a positive.”
Arsene Wenger was frank with his assessment of the evening. He will now see a pattern developing with our failure to score in five of our last six Premier League home matches. Another option or two is surely in his mind again in this, of all weeks? The natives are getting restless, even at this early stage.
“Our game is still not fluent enough in the final third, and that’s why we didn’t score. The West Ham game left a trace in our heads, and it was important tonight not to lose because you could see that was a shock for us and it was important for us to get that game out of our system.”
On to Newcastle, and an important week and weekend for all manner of reasons.
157 Responses to “Hopefully, A Reality Cech”
1st?
And my thoughts on the game:
Not too disheartened by that. More frustrated with the result than the performance funnily enough. Early days – but I think we really need to win at St James’ Park on Saturday now (no reason why we can’t), otherwise we’ll have failed to win 3 of our first 4 league games once again, and also like last season, could find ourselves 7-8 points behind the frontrunners in no time at all.
Cech had a stormer, and I thought Gabriel was superb – he’s surprisingly quick, got great reactions, and really likes defending robustly, almost to the point of cynicism! The Coq was good again, but I feel we need more goalscoring threat from our progressive midfield players (Cazorla, Ozil, Ramsey). Teams rarely win the league on goalscoring strikers alone, but need midfielders who can weigh in with 10+ goals – we’ve had this in the past with Pires, Ljungberg, Wiltord et al. For Ozil to really justify the #10 role he needs to be adding more personal goal-threat to his game, and where the hell have Santi’s shooting boots gone over the last 2 seasons (penalties aside)?!
Considering we’re not going to buy a striker, because there’s no one available, it’s best to focus on what we have got. I know it’s always easy to project onto who doesn’t play in these sort of games as the solution, but I think we missed Welbeck a touch today. Someone who can combine a bit of strength, pace and directness and who would have troubled Lovren and Skrtel more, as Giroud was very easy to police. I’d like to see Walcott (and possibly Giroud and Walcott) start against Newcastle – possibly at the expense of Ramsey….
Thanks G. I thought Gabriel took responsibility for Benteke in the second-half and that improved our defence considerably.
As for signings, let’s see. We none of us know who is or isn’t available.
Please start the Ox in our next game. We can’t fit all three of Ozil/Carzola/Ramsey at the same time. Ramsey doesn’t give us any threat going forward and I bet he doesn’t like playing on the wings neither.
Fine report, Holic – having just arrived home I thought I’d check in and read what actually happen at the game I watched tonight.
A great game for the neutrals but highly frustrating for most Arsenal fans I suspect. I thought Ramsey’s goal was a cracker and from my vantage point didn’t think it looked offside. Had it been allowed there’s not a doubt in my mind that we would have gone on to win. A draw doesn’t feel wonderful, but a defeat looked a possibility just before half-time and that would have felt considerably worse.
Had we hammered the irons as we ought to have done we be sitting on seven points out of nine and I’d be feeling pretty happy. Four from a possible (relatively easy) nine doesn’t feel so good.
Ten from fifteen would be a fair return BtM. ?
Indeed it would and looks very ‘doable’, Holic.
A very fair report from the Boss as ever. I posted from the game which is rare because I usually can’t get a signal. So my reflections were very much how I was feeling during the game.
I’ve had longer to reflect now. I think there are some positives.
Czech was excellent and should kick on from here
Coquelin is a really top DM
Gabriel steadied the defence and the full backs did well.
Ozil had a good game but our movement didn’t help him.
We turned it round well in the second half.
At home we need a more mobile striker than Giroud.
As I’ve moved on to negatives I must mention Chambers. He was greeted with delight last season and played well in some European games at right back. But he is not anywhere near being a good centre half and we might have lost because of him tonight. He had a mare in the first half. Not sure if the plan for him makes sense.
Ramsey is wasted at home on the right.
We needed to change the attacking options earlier. Wenger seems to feel 67 and a half is a magic number.
I’ve had lots of friends text me to say what a great game it was. I thought it was end to end and we improved radically after half time ( hard not to) but we do need to learn from the mistakes of the past. I now think we should buy the best striker we can and I would go for Austin if we don’t get Cavani or Aubyemang. A good DM like Schneiderlin would have helped us play a double pivot in games like that with Le Coq.
Not originaloditional suggestions but a lot of good judges have come to similar conclusions. I hope Wenger does move before the deadline even though I expected and wasn’t originally worried by a quiet window.
We need a good win at Newcastle. Giroud always scores there.
Cech ?
Interesting report Holic. From my seat it was all very much Groundhog Day. Losing both centre backs was a blow but we should have a squad capable of detailing with that. I thought Gabriel did well although Chambers looked a fish out of water at times. I do wonder what is best for him. We bought him as a right back for £16 million. He is now our 3rd choice right back and 4th centre back. To develop he needs to play regularly.
The ruled out goal was unfortunate but until we make use of the technology available then mistakes will happen.
The side again lacked balance. Why play Rambo wide right and Sanchez wide left? Why leave OG so isolated?
For me the match was fought out by two average sides. If the squads say the same I don’t see either making an impression on a title challenge. We made far too many mistakes and had far too many misplaced passes in what was a sloppy performance. 66% possession and only 5 shots on target just is not good enough.
I really can’t agree re Coquelin. He is a good, honest, hard working player. But for me he lacks quality. What he does is highlight an area where we are short. His impact is no different to that of Flamini and Song before him. He breaks up play well, but then that is a basic requirement for the role. For me he can get caught in possession far to easy. I also think his distribution is poor and he offers very little going forward. Tonight we needed a leader to protect a new centre back pairing. For me he did not do it. At the moment I don’t think he is good enough to do it. I hope he develops and improves, but for me, we can and should do a lot better.
We need to do a lot better than we have done in the first 3 games of the season. Tonight was my first trip of the season and the locals are indeed getting restless. For me we have the same deficiencies that we have had for the past 5/6 seasons. I just hope that in the next 7 days that there is a Plan B and a Plan C. Otherwise it could be a long old season.
Fingers crossed.
Cech by the way was outstanding. Makes you realise what buying top class really is. Very impressed I must say.
@Steve- couldn’t have said it any better.
One more thing, we seems to always leave our transfer business till the end of the window. Striker? We most likely might not get one. What about CDM, we knew that we needed one before the transfer window started and here we are seven days to go and still the same old thing.
So, we need to do something about “fetish”, no?
Re the f guy. Ignore the ignorant might be the best way to go here.
@5 How are you BTM? Popping over to the Far East anytime soon?
Sure feels like the boys are still remembering how to play with Alexis again. Only most of the 2nd half did we see good combination between Ramsey-Santi-Ozil-Alexis which resulted in a 10 minute flurry of chances in the congested Liverpool box.
Easy to see with some time how it can all go our way.
Can’t afford to wait too long, though, when other teams are pulling away.
SanAntonio, I’m really not sure how you can say Ramsey offers nothing going forward when he scored the only goal of the game (should have been allowed) and put it on a plate for Giroud twice and combined really well with Ozil and Alexis in the second half. He was in our top 3 passing combos against Palace an was involved in a majority of our attacks and had 4 chances created.
Last season he was our 3rd highest goal scorer and 3rd highest assister despite missing a combined 3 months through his hamstring issues – he adds a lot to our movement going forward AND adds to our defense so I really don’t understand where you’re coming from with that.
I do however think he needs to be deployed in the middle where he is so much more effective and much more of a goal threat – this is especially prudent given that none of our other midfielders score goals apart from Ramsey.
Fair report, ‘Holic. Cech last night certainly saved the first of the 12-14 points he is meant to secure for us. Season is starting like we seem to play first halves — needing to be dug out from. Still 105 points to play for.
Anyone know about Kos’s back injury and how long he will be out?
Disappointing result but without Cech’s redemption it could have been even worse. Lot’s of industry all round but little of it effective in terms of creating clear chances.
Giroud was often isolated (again) and Alexis struggled to find a way into the game as did Ozil, despite all his running.
For home games at least where we have to prise open massed defences I believe we should be playing with a different formation that allows for two front men to work together more closely – any combination of Giroud / Walcott / Alexis or whoever.
I also agree that we’re struggling trying to effectively fit Ramsey and Cazorla into the same team. Either one should play in the middle and the Ox must play wide right – it’s a better balance and gives us more attacking options.
Onward. UTA.
“I just cannot get my head around why he would not sign players of power to assist these talented players to enable them to win the league.” Gary Neville.
Absolutely spot on in my opinion.
Fair report ‘holic.
I have to say that I was very disappointed by the result and the performance last night. Too much “tippy-tappy” and no cutting edge unlike at Selhurst Park the week before. We made Liverpool look like a dangerous side going forward. Where was the pressing from last season when we smashed them 4 – 1?!
Steve T @10, 11 and 19 hits all the nails on the head. Cech was superb! Three points already saved of his 12 for the season!
The Bus Stop and Abu Dhabi Citeh match was far better with much higher quality on display by both side: The two I watched last night are fighting for 3rd and 4th with the Baring’s Bank United. The standard and quality of play last week between the other two title contenders was frightening because of the intelligent and purposeful movement. Without adding more size, power and strength in the middle of the park to compliment our midgets, and a world class striker that needs just one or two half chances to score, we can forget the big trophies this year and just enjoy another good cup run if we get another good draw. Still very disappointed with the performance. Chambers is just not ready to be a last line defender; he just makes too many mistakes right now. Bellerin was awful tonight too and made Countinho look like Ronaldinho! He had the beating of young Bell all night! Why oh why does AOC not start on the right turn get subbed later if need be?! The only dribbling runner with blistering pace that can get away from any player; even Alexis can’t do that at times. Ozil just looks lost when everyone is static! He need movement all the time and options. He’ll find you if you do that!
It’s a new dawn,It’s a new day, It’s a new life for me ! Well unless im watching The Arsenal of course as thats still the same old un solved issues.
Generally thought stupidly that this summer maybe different and without having to Qualify for the Champions league they may get the business done early, but nope its another trolley Dash, if theres any dashing at all – Another lost opportunity, As could have really kicked on again. But at least the Stockpile rises that ever bit higher !
Morning all,
Your first sentence nailed how to deal with the troll, Steve-o 🙂
On Gary Neville’s “arrogant” comment, which I’m hearing about this morning, I have to say that he’s got a point with that. I might even go as far as say “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
DDC,
We are very close that’s the strange thing – Generally think we are 1/2 Players away from being pretty much unstoppable, This group will play some blinding Games, Score some worldly goals and Smash some very good sides But they will also throw in to many performances like West Ham and Last night to mount a serious challenge without a little help, But then again it could be worse we could support that shower from up the road 🙂
Thanks for the report Holic.
For me anyway – its just a matter of giving yourself the best possible chance to win games by doing two things:
1. Putting players in their correct positions to get the balance and efficiency right and
2. Setting your own side up in a way to optimise the weaknesses of whoever your facing.
Taking the first point: I think we’re trying to fit in as many of our best players as possible into this team at the expense of balance, efficiency and formation. Which is why we end up seeing Rambo on the wing. Also for me, Ozil is not taking control of games at 10 and would be more suited to playing on the left flank. I would have played Coquelin at DCM, Rambo at 8 and Cazorla/Jack alternating at 10. I would play Ozil on the left, Oxlade on the right and I would have put Alexis at centre forward.
In relation to the second point, the set up was even more important when you look at who Liverpool had playing at left back. Young inexperienced player who was there for the taking (Oxlade skinned Gomez twice for the 8 minutes he was on the field). Put the shoe on the other foot and look how they targeted our 2nd centre half combo. It was evident that Chambers was struggling and even more evident that he’s just not ready for that position yet. He needs more game time and should go out on loan. I feel you need to be able to rely on whoever comes into that berth if primary players get injured which is why having someone experienced (like Gabriel) can make such a difference. It was clearly evident that Monreal should have played in the centre and Gibbs at left back…..or maybe even bring in Debuchy as a straight swap for Chambers. The fact that we got to half time on level terms was down to some GK excellence by Cech and sheer bloody luck.
Our game is all about having a player at centre forward who can actually play with the ball at his feet. A player who can dribble, go past players, pass accurately and with enough pace to ebb ‘n’ flow with the game as we defend and counter attack. Oliver Giroud is a very important option to have and contributes at time, but he should never be the primary option, especially against the better teams where our technique, passing, movement and finishing should really count and get results. More often than not, our “flow” breaks down with Giroud. Which is why of course, we’ve tried to sign Higuain, Cavani, Suarez and now most recently Benzema. Fingers crossed we get someone.
If you want movement and fluid play, Walcott has to play. I say that as a fan, but he just has to. We play far better with tempo and movement in the side and the only question for me is this.
Do you replace Wandering Rambo or take out the far too static Giroud?
Neville’s “arrogant” comment seems a bit outdated considering we’ve got Coquelin playing as well as any defensive midfield player in the Premier League over the last 8-9 months. Yes, I’m worried a bit about depth in that position, as the Coq seems certain to encounter injury/suspensions – but he’s pretty much fulfilling the brief for that position. I don’t think any of our early season travails so far have been down to problems at DCM. Also, if people are going to lament our lack of signings, it’s only fair they make feasible suggestions as to who we should buy.
I know I’m in a minority here, but I feel pretty certain we’ll finish at least top 2 this season – even without any additions. The strength in depth of the Premier League is pretty phenomenal though, so we’re going to have to get used to a few more dropped points, at least until the season reaches mid-Autumn when injuries mean that the smaller squads start feeling the pinch….
Oh and Chambers should have gone on loan. Said it yesterday, said it in June, still going to say it today. He’s not going to learn on the bench and he’s fourth choice centre back and third choice right back.
I would actually have sold him in the summer, to be honest. I don’t have a clue why he was bought in the first place, particularly as he cost £19m and we had Jenkinson.
Gregoire,
Who would you class as Feasible ? Would Cavani Be classed as Feasible and how about Martinez or one of the Bender Brothers They would all improve our squad/team hugely – I don’t for one minute believe there are no players out there that can improve us, Yes there is a Dearth of Talent in the Forward positions but its not an impossible act to upgrade on what we have. We have one of the most in depth and highly paid scouting networks in world football so it should really be down to them to suggest upgrades 😉
Fine report H. The game I saw. Disappointed AOC wasn’t brought on earlier. Joe nails it there.
I’m hoping that our negotiations for a mobile dead-eyed striker succeed before the deadline. Feo it ain’t. HFB needs an upgrade. Arsene knows.
Cech, Gabriel, Coq and Rambo were outstanding. Alexis is still not match-fit.
Must win on Saturday.
I don’t think it’s about needing an upgrade for OG. It’s about finding support and other options. If Theo was going to be a central striker I’m hoping we would have known about it before his 26th birthday.
I have read several times now since the start of the season about the increase in quality on the bench, but is that really the case? Last night we had two full backs, two 30 plus holding players, a speeding winger and an attacking MF player. I would suggest that does not give you too many options if you are chasing a result.
Great comment about the bench Steve. Would have preferred Iwobi or Reine Adelaide to Flamini
Couldn’t agree more about the bench Steve.
@ Chippy, I don’t think Martinez or Cavani are any more likely to have a better season in England than Giroud or Sanchez – I just think they’re fancy names for us to grasp at when we’re looking for an outlet for our frustration when Arsenal don’t always get the results we would like. A lot of clubs around Europe (not just England) are flush with cash and want to compete, so they’re not going to let their best players go unless they can get another one in. Until one of the top strikers moves on to release the ‘domino effect’, it looks like it will be a summer of relative stasis around Europe.
I prefer to look at the internal solutions though, and feel it’s just a case of Wenger creating the right chemistry from our group of talented forward players, and the bigger question rather than why can’t we buy someone new, is how best to use our current players to break the tight defensive banks now being used to stymie us at the Emirates? Earlier substitutions would help. More penetration down the right? Are Cazorla and Ozil both necessary when teams are parking the bus, as the running off the ball from the likes of Ramsey and Walcott seems needed to balance out our propensity to pass, pass, pass. I also believe in Welbeck more than most people here and think he could be an interesting power-pace option for us in certain games…
We could have done with Danny yesterday, couldnt we??? Running without the ball is one of his forte and it would be ideal in such games where teams defend narrow and we do not have wingers who stay at their positions. Ramsey on the right will never work for he keeps coming central and Alexis is everywhere and has the license to do so.
Poor first half, scond half looked predictable, always needed someone to find a magic pass or an amazing shot to have scored and neither happened. Teams who come to the emirates know that we do not use the width we have and hence it is easier for them to defend.
Must win against newcastle but what will change? ramsey/santi and Ozil cannot play in the same 11, so who gets dropped? We need to find our rhythm and start winning continuously or else this look yet again oh no the same story. The team is good yet seem clueless on what to do when the door is closed, look for a window boys and boss.
Chippy, Joe and Cynic; good posts and I agree.
Square pegs in round round holes in two games out of three already for Arsene.
Gregoire,
Right now I’d make an offer for Wanyama who wants to leave Southampton without any further hesitation to support or play alongside Le Coq in some big games (a very good commercial buy for the African market and has resale value too). I’d also go all out for Cavani as my main striker if Benzema’s not possible. Either way, we have to get a world-class frontman/finisher if we are to stand the pace of the whole season on all four fronts.
If Baring’s Bank United get Neymar, then they’ll have that stellar front man they need to arguably push us back to fighting for 4th with the Mugwashers. On last nights performance, I’m beginning to fear that we’ll have let another season of opportunity pass us buy in what’s already looking like it’s going to be a very hard and high-quality season with difficult sides both home and away. Arsene’s not getting any younger and he hasn’t got many more seasons or chances left to win the CL for the first time nor win the EPL title back.
Up the Arse.
Id disagree on Cavani, I personally think he would thrive in this league, he has every attribute id look for in a forward, Added to that he has a work ethic almost on a par with Sanchez, Again, personally I think hes gettable dependant on just how serious we are about getting him, Id also say hes around the right age as not to stifle the development of Apkom who I believe could be an internal solution in a couple of years,
All of the above is conjecture anyway as I very much doubt we are even looking at him, I just don’t and have never bought into the Theory better players are not available, especially when your in the top 5 and probably higher Cash rich clubs in Football,
I do tend to agree we are not making the most of what we have tho and are badly lacking balance and once found we will see an up turn in results – But as I said earlier I cannot fore see a title challenge of any magnitude with the squad we currently have,
Vinay @35,
Exactly! We don’t use the whole width of the pitch and that’s where the “Insanity” partly rests. Because Giroud remains central at all times, it’s as if everything has to played through him centrally before going wide. OG is very good on his day but when he’s not on top form, he’s too predictable and when he doesn’t link up, we’re always open to the counter attack from the centre when the ball breaks free to one of their two deep lying central midfielders.
Why would PSG (who are richer than us) sell Cavani to Arsenal anyway? Who can they buy to replace Cavani? That’s why this debate about a striker from a market perspective is inane. If Giroud wasn’t an Arsenal player, and was banging in the 25 goals a season he’s pretty much guaranteed over his last 4/5 years in French/English football, you’d be telling me we should buy him!! The question is knowing which games he is/isn’t suitable for, not waiting until 70 minutes to make attacking substitutions, knowing how to get the best balance out of Ramsey/Wilshere/Ozil/Cazorla/Oxlade-Chamberlain, and making sure that we rotate personnel constantly so that players remain hungry and know that their place isn’t a god-given right.
Also, DapperDanC – Neymar isn’t going to Man Utd. Don’t buy that click-bait load of nonsense!!
Morning all.
Nice headline H.
Thats´s it… can we move on now? 🙂
We just need a little Chaos Theory…..
#NYYNMFP
Gregoire @39,
Anything’s possible in the Sepp Blatter world of football! 😎
Lots of good stuff from you here, Gegoire. Include me in your minority @ 27 🙂 And yes, if we didn’t have OG, he would be right up there in the headlights as just the kind of striker we should buy.
Afternoon!
The requirements form here are quite simple. If we cannot win, we must not lose.
We are currently 5 points off of the pace and so cannot afford to drop anymore points to stay on the heals of city and get up in the mix.
I am sure last night was discussed to death, as follows:
Chambers had wobbly moments (needs to sharpen up), made it out alive
Gabriel was good
Cech saved us
Coquelin made vital interceptions
Liver-poo were just that, poo! (In fairness though, Lucas and Skirtel defended with their two-bit lives, whilst Coutinho could be the next scouser to hand in his resignation.
Off to the Magpies next for more of the same. Wreck havoc, let Alexis off of the leash and collect the valuable points we need!
UTA!!
😆
More a case of Cavani wanting out than PSG wanting him out – Hes been played on the wing from virtually the day he signed, As we all know an unhappy player that wants out will always get his wish, But as I said previous I very much doubt its even on our/his radar.
Other notable options are Aubameyang, Lacazette and the one I feel we missed the boat on Dybala,
As for Giroud hes a Good Player but if you want to be the best or up with the best you need Better,
Chippy, I would take Aubameyang in a heartbeat. That boy is going to cost a little fortune next year as I am sure that he will rip the defenses apart in this one.
Not sure that Dortmund will want to sell him though and if I remember correctly he signed a new long term deal this summer. Might be wrong on that, haven’t check it.
Dybala is a very interesting player, natural footbaler, but I think that he is more suited to the Calcio or Primera. If he can cope with the pace of the PL, which a doubt at th moment, he might have a career similar to Aguero’s.
Chippy@29: that scouting network is damned either way. Even if it unearthed the greatest striking prospect in the world or recommended a 21-year-old like Ante Rebic, the club would still be castigated for not flashing the cash on a fancy big name. (I think Rebic would do well in the Premiership, btw; he looks like Vinny Jones but taller and nastier).
Steve T@31: on the button about Ollie G. It is a Plan B that we need.
BTM@43, Chippy@45: Giroud has a market value on a par with the likes of Dzeko, Mandzukic and Negredo, and not far short of that of Aubameyang and Dybala (for whom Juventus may have overpaid, though that probably says more about the market for strikers, especially young ones, than it does about Juve). Lacazette is worth more than the lot of them.
Some morning after reflections:
Don’t see AW going for another striker, as he probably doesn’t feel that there’s anyone out there that’s worth it, and he still has Welbeck to turn to eventually. And why not play Alexis centrally? AW has always said that he bought him to be a striker, and maybe one way of getting the Energizer Bunny back to top form is to turn him loose in the center of the park.
Chambers needs to play regularly; it’s the only way to get him the appropriate seasoning if the plan is to rely on him in the future. You have a more than decent third CD in Gabriel, and for those rare occasions where you need a fourth CD, both Debuchy and Monreal can do the one or two match spot duty, and it keeps Debuchy and Gibbs engaged.
Le Coq showed his value, and the concern is that he’ll either burn himself out or run into yellow/red card jail due to overuse. AW needs to play football manager, look at the fixture list, and use the Arteta/ Ramsey engine room, which worked so well not too long ago, against
certain opposition, mostly at home.
I agree with all of those who think Chambers should go out on loan.
I like Welbz but his scoring record is poor. He score 4 league goals in 20 plus games last year.
A few thoughts from me.
We can all criticise the tactics last night (I know I did), but when you look at it we played much the same side that walloped Liverpool at home a few months back, bar the enforced changes at CB and a new keeper. The same side that looked so balanced around Easter this year. Why it isn’t still so is something of a mystery.
Last night was a hard game to take a view on. In other circumstances a point might have been fine. But the legacy of our defeat on the opening day is that it’s now not enough. We’ve put ourselves in a difficult spot with that loss, and it’s hard not to feel unnerved by the start City have made, as opposed to our own travails.
Beyond that:
* I thought Coquelin was superb. I had my doubts about him last season, but the way he’s carried on this term has me convinced. Top player.
* Chambers clearly had a howler, but well done to him for seeing it out. Not sure I’ll feel comfortable to see him start another game in the short term. I thought Bellerin was also rocking and looks like a young player who might benefit from a breather.
* Hugely encouraged by Gabriel. Looked a defender in the Kos mode, and I liked the way he seemed to take greater responsibility second half and duly pocketed Benteke.
* Alexis clearly still only half fit, and it’s costing us. I wanted Ox to start on the other flank, but I’d be concerned about how often the pair of them together would be likely to turn over the ball.
* Santi, I’m worried about. He went totally AWOL in the first half during our really bad spell, and left Coquelin with too much to do. His passing isn’t where it should be and he’s just not at last season’s level right now. Which is a problem, because he’s better suited to partnering Coquelin than Ramsey is. I would expect that one of the two will get a rest this weekend.
* Giroud – extremely disappointing. Given what’s going on you’d have hoped for a bit of fight, but he spent the evening in Martin Skrtel’s pocket. Whether that’s due to lack of support, I don’t know, but I feel we’re overdue an upgrade. He must be on something like 2 goals in a dozen games now. Great shame as at times last season he looked to have made a real step up. I don’t think being dropped for the cup final has done him any favours, I have to say.
* Ozil, I thought had a very good second half, and it’s clear that the more he sees of the ball, the better we are. I think we’d be mad to send him out to the flank.
* Cech – world class. Good to see.
In terms of transfers, I agree with Lurky and Chippy. I think we may have missed the boat with Dybala and I also think Aubameyang would do well for us. Just hope we can get someone in this week, as I feel we will struggle to meet our goals with Giroud up top.
We currently have one striker who can’t play with his back to goal, one who can’t run in behind a defence and one who can’t really finish (sad to say). We need to find someone who can do all three of those things – it will open up a whole new world of options for us.
Anyway, chin up and on we go. I think Arsene has some real puzzles to sort out over the next couple of weeks before we head to Stamford Bridge, because we don’t look balanced right now, and what worked in April is proving not to work in August. We’re going to see a lot of teams come to the Emirates this season and defend exactly as Liverpool did last night; we need some new answers and we need them quick.
Oh, and I don’t care if Gary Neville is saying that grass is green and water is wet: he can still cock off.
COYG
Escaped the rain on route and actually thought it was a great game to watch, heart in mouth stuff in the first half.
I was in block 30 last night and in line with Rambo’s strike. The assistant was well behind the play and was in no position to raise his flag, he guest!
We can’t go on playing Rambo out wide, no width as he cuts in side. All the play was concentrated down the centre and left wing while acres of empty space remained on the right until the Ox entered the fray to give us pace at the death, too late!
I felt very sorry for Chambers who was obviously nervous and rusty and thrown into the side last minute. He was all at sea in the first half, passes going astray and it was encouraging that he pulled himself together in the second. I thought Gabriel was superb as he dragged his young partner through the nightmare of the first 45 minutes. A magnificent tackle in the box late on had me on my feet and saved us when a Liverpool goal looked on.
The fact that the game remained goaless was amazing. We have to thank Cech for that and our misfiring attackers. Yes Pool defended well and their defence was packed with late substitutes to thwart our efforts but as has already been said we haven’t scored at home in recent games and this is a huge setback for our attempts to make a strong challenge in the league. We need a potent striker and there isn’t one in the squad but where do we go to find a Suarez type player?
Perhaps putting Alexis in the middle with Mesut out left, pace on the right with Ox/Walcott and Rambo centrally would be worth a try with OG on the bench.
Saturday is a must win otherwise Citi in their present form will be out of sight.
COYRs
N7G: Giroud scored last week against Palace and in the Cup Final against Villa in the final game of last season but his previous goal was nine games before that in the 4-1 home win over Liverpool.
Thanks NBN. So, 2 in 10 then.
His overall record for us is pretty good, but he seems to have lost his mojo at some stage last Spring.
NBN,
Interesting Mention, Cannot say I know a great deal if at all anything about Rebic – Scurries of to see some footage but tend to agree that the Scouting Network/Manager are in between a rock and a hard place at times. Wouldn’t disagree on Girouds Market Value, as I say im not his biggest critic by any means,
N7 — The problem with Giroud is he is just a fraction slower than what a very top level striker needs to be in PL. Not just slower running with the ball or off the ball, but slower in turning and instant reactions. He tries to work around that problem by being more of a first-touch player and to be honest he is technically rather good.
Joe had earlier suggested that our moves break down with him, on the contrary I think his one-touch passing around and inside the penalty box helps our collective game significantly and in his absence we miss that. Most of our best team goals in the last couple of years have his involvement in it (Jack, TR7, Poldi, Rambo…).
However that slowness does take away his ability to balance himself quickly before the goal scoring attempts in tight space with defenders already on the tackle. Augero is extraordinarily adept at buying that extra fraction of second, Giroud on the contrary seems to loses a bit of time in such situations. That is why his best goals with his feet are near-post runs, first time finishes or crackers from the edge of the box. The typical striker’s nimble-footed finish among a crowd of defenders is never going to be his forte. Which is a problem when the opposition packs it up in their defensive third.
If we get someone who can offer that quality and can alternate with Giroud or play with Giroud that is great, but even if we don’t we can still work around this problem by playing Alexis/Theo close to Giroud in those situations in a somewhat old schoolish 4-4-2 type formation. Without the ball we go back to our formation but with the ball we have two centrally and have the wingers stretch out the defense instead of cutting in.
Ox made a poor defensive mistake against West Ham. But as others have alluded, yesterday’s game was made for him and and his earlier introduction would have definitely helped our cause.
There is nothing wrong with OG that a partner or some back up would not solve. He has to shoulder far too much of the burden.
I keep reading about how great Le Coq is? Apart from being able to break up play, what does he actually offer this team? Am I missing something here? Is he any better than Flamini was two years ago? I may have been spoilt previously but I expect central midfield players to bring more to the table.
I would be extremely surprised if we suddenly started playing 442 to accommodate Giroud.
Steve – don’t know if you’re missing something, but I think you’re seeing a different Coq (oo-er) to the one I am. He may only break up play, but that’s what this team has desperately needed for years. He’s aggressive, he’s mobile and he’s put in maybe one poor performance in the 8 months he’s been in the side. I thought he was our best outfield player last night.
He’s no Patrick Vieira but he currently plays that holding role as well as anyone in England.
Your mileage may vary.
Some great posts all around. I found more positives in yesterday’s game than worrying signs.
Cech — that was a superb display. Loved the way he constantly encouraged Chambers and exuded a sense of calm assurance. Great acquisition, and glad to have my early skepticism proven wrong.
Gabriel — as he had shown signs in last season, he is a mean motherfucker. And technically proficient. With him and Kos — the accordion factory should buy him a steel-plated back — we will have a powerful, athletic, mobile defensive pairing allowing us to push our midfield further ahead. And in Kos’s absence he will deputize well for him alongside Per.
I thought even yesterday the team was carrying some scars from the first day loss as they were yet to fully come to terms with it. In a certain sense they had that shock early in the season, had the chance to reassess themselves and stay humble. There was some poor passing and finishing all around, but nothing to question in terms of willingness and even tactical discipline. This was a serious-minded hard-working display fraught with errors. The errors would be rectified in the training ground and the groove will be back once the confidence and in some cases fitness (Alexis, and suspects Santi is carrying something minor) returns. But the early season attitude bodes well.
We always go through one or two minor lean patches in terms of goals. Even then yesterday we could have still won if Rambo’s wonderful goal — that was a superlative slide-rule from Santi — stood and if Giroud could have finished one or two of the moves (he should have at least got a penalty as well) or if Alexis didn’t miss when presented with a great chance by a flick from Giroud…we are getting through our lean patch early in the season. With or without new signings our penetration and finishing will improve.
N7 @ 57: That is actually not what I said. Not to accommodate anyone, but to bring out the best of the team that there is in certain situations that tactical readjustment when in possession is not unlikely. If he can be replaced by the mythical Giroud + Theo + Welbeck then that is great. But if that transfer doesn’t happen, then in situations when we need goals and the defense in sitting deep then putting someone next to him would be a good idea.
And we have done that a few times by the way. Including 2014 FA Cup Final when Sanogo of all people was brought in to play alongside him in search of a goal and that made a difference. There were matches where Theo played just off Giroud in exactly a typical 4-4-2 when in possession but while defending moved to the wide areas.
@Dr F
If I was quoting you, I’d have used quotation marks.
As any good scholar should recognise.
Gabriel yesterday…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Umn76_HKA
@ 60: Acknowledged, and learned. As I am always open to. Learning, that is. 🙂
Doctor Fautus
You are really amazing with your analysis , in a week or two , Arsenal will cruise at full speed .
We are blessed in Montreal ( Canada ) for having 5 hours ahead of you guys .
A match at 12:45 noon means 7:45AM where Canadian are still sleeping , we get to see matches on TV, otherwise TV channels will show hockey instead !
N7. I hear what you say and I’ve listened to others but for me Le Coq is not good enough and does not bring enough to the team. He breaks play up well and provides cover. He works hard and always puts in a shift. But for me he is limited in his ability. He gets caught in possession and his distribution is not great. I would love to see him develop but from my seat he is a squad player. As you say, he’s no Vieira and quite simply it is that sort of player that we really miss. I know they are not ten a penny but it is that sort of strength and leadership that has been lacking for ages in my opinion.
@ Steve
I was of the same view for long spells last season, so I know where you’re coming from. He’s won me over now though, so – you never know – he may convince you too in due course.
A week left, please buy Lars Bender or Moutinho, they will be an upgrade to coquelin who as magnificent as he was yesterday, cannot sustain a season alone.
I sense what Wenger meant gamble may well be Austin or pato, i rather have a fit Welbeck but if not its worth a punt isnt it???
Need to win against the magpies, they are a poor team and honestly we should roll them over but then it never happens like that, a hard fought 1-0 works.
International break after this weekend gives us the perfect time to evaluate the playing 11. Jack will be back and i think he will replace Santi, apart from that all i can say is it aint over till it is. COYG.
Dr F@61: one thing that stood out for me in that clip of Gabriel was how quick but straightforward his distribution is.
One loss. And a hard fought tie. And all hell breaking loose. Sign big name [fill in blank]. Yep, sounds about right.
And Aubameyang … really? Now, I don’t know that much about him, but is he really the “world class” or difference-making striker to come to the rescue? Sounds more akin to grabbing at straws.
I find myself in almost total agreement with Gregorie. Though I do think that if Le Coq is injured or suspended, things will go very soft indeed ….
Coquelin debate as I see it.
http://y2u.be/ExWfh6sGyso
I mean, apart from blocking, tackling, disrupting opposition play, protecting his back four, offering great anticipation, covering his teammates errors, tracking, cutting the opponents supply line, staying 100% disciplined (one hundred percent that is, not a single percentage less!), slowing down counters, offering physicality and speed, defending set pieces, giving his all for the team in absolutely every occasion possible this past 8 months …. what has Coquelin ever done for us?
Gabriel is already a monster! Kos Mark-II in the making! Quick, aggressive and unintimidated.
Le Coq is fine as the main DM but he cannot be a starter all season with form, injuries and suspensions inevitable. Arteta and Flamini (if he stays) can only be back up or brought-on to tighten things up in the middle.
Ozil definitely needs a top class finishing and more mobile centre-forward to play with who can come short, link up play and run in behind. This is especially at home. OG is fine as an alternative plan. If Arsene puts that mobile front man in the middle upfront then we can leave him up to it. It’s not rocket science and if Arsene is desperate to play Ozil in all matches, he has to help him out with his up front options. Mobility in the middle upfront and width with pace in the wide areas. Ozil is a world-class playmaker and he needs to be helped up make those world class plays.
Sarah J- I meant something going forward on the wings. Just like you said I think he should be in the middle. The problem is that you have got Ozil/Carzola there.
Great debate in the bar. Nice to see such a sensible discussion and lots of ideas all presented in a constructive way. Such a difference from other forums. Emotions run high during matches and I don’t usually post from games but at half- time , hugely alarmed by our fallibility at the back I was worried the second half might have been a disaster. Thankfully I was reassured by a second half display that was greatly improved.
I’ve never seen a club in better shape for the season than this one. Our prep was perfect and then we produced that horror show against West Ham. West Ham’s defeats by Leicester and Bournemouth at home have helped to put the abject poverty of that performance into perspective .
In tonight’s Standard Wenger is taking stick for not having got the team revved up for the start of the season but in reality we were in perfect pitch prior to West Ham, especially where we outdid Chelsea in an attritional game . Goodness only knows where the West Ham performance came from but a clue might be that in five of the last six home games we have not scored. Teams set up identically against us and prosper as we look unable to penetrate.
On the various debates I think Coquelin has been brilliant but would relish Wanyama or Bender or Krykhowiak to support him.
Theo has much better movement than Giroud, is quicker and finishes better. My striking suggestion is to try for Cavani or Aubyemang but as a back- up take Charlie Austin. That boy isn’t ideal but he will score more than Giroud from a similar number of chances.
We will then have options and greater coverage. Our striking options outside Theo were non- existent last night. I also think we need to start Ox instead of Ramsey who has underwhelmed me for the last season.
Ozil will thrive on better movement and a fitter Sanchez.
Will we get these additions?
I very much doubt it. I’m not sure Wenger has been looking for a striker at all up to now and taking off Coquelin shows his belief in playing attacking midfielders over defensive ones. But let’s hope the old boy is reading this?
TTG @72,
Let’s hope the “old boy” is reading because sadly the old boy isn’t getting any younger!
Up the Arse!
Hello holics,
Been a very long time! How are you all doing?
Anyway, I have been keeping up with a few main posts, even though my visits to the drinks have all but stopped
Just popping in to say ‘holic, that it is fantastic to see the bar still the same as it ever was
Cheers
One thing about Ozil which was worrying last night was his body language when he lost the ball. No hustle to get the ball back and just looked disinterested. Can anyone explain why he keeps doing that?
Good to see you back in the bar Harsha! How are things? Enjoying the ups and downs of this term already?
Again, I understand where you are coming from N7 but for me it’s different. I have seen a great deal of the matches he has played in and I don’t see anyone doing anymore than Flamini or Song did. We have been crying out for someone in that position for years. To me it seems as if we have accepted what we have having been starved in the previous year’s.
This is not a dig at Le Coq. He always gives 100% and works hard. But it’s s bit like the goal keeping situation. Who was better, shezza or ospina? What about Flappy? He had more than his fair share of support. Then, it’s not until you get the quality of Cech in your ranks that you realise what has been missing. That’s the point I’m trying to make.
Lurky. If only it were true.
One thing which I think we all know here is that the tabloid media have absolutely no clue about what is going on at Arsenal. There never was a Benzema story but we live in such a febrile world that people think that the idiot Rodney Marsh is possessed of some special knowledge. How unlikely is that?
The Cavani story comes with no substantiation whatsoever from John Cross who has appointed himself without any obvious evidence as an expert on Arsenal dealings. Suddenly it’s all over the media and indeed it might be a nice option but it is highly unlikely that a deal is likely.
It’s not really helped by the odd correspondent that comes on here suggesting that big things are afoot. Sadly I don’t think that we have prepped any deals for forwards and it will be very difficult to do one now.
The DM option might happen. Ozil’s transfer came after great pressure from the Board who were aware of fan unrest building up. Three games is a lifetime to most fans nowadays but we have to trust that Wenger knows best. My intuition which is about as much use as Marsh’s suggests that Wenger really doesn’t feel the need to spend at all but it’s hard to see us overtaking Citeh and Chelsea with their additions when we already have weaknesses and two weeks into the season have lost five players from our squad to injury , four of which seem quite serious ones.
I’m confining my reading on the club to here and a cursory, occasional glance at News Now. But if you look at the headlines on there most of the articles just aren’t worth reading
Not a fan of numbers myself Steve T, but in case you missed it, I will paste the whole paragraph from “by the numbers” section on Arseblog:
In Coquelin’s case, he had 5 tackles (led both teams), 6 interceptions (led both teams, tied with Bellerin), and 15 ball recoveries. That’s 26 times that he recovered possession for Arsenal.
The entire team made 80 ball recoveries, 23 tackles, and 28 interceptions. That’s 131 recovered possessions. Since he had 26, that means that Coquelin accounted for 20% of Arsenal’s recovered possessions today and he only played 81 minutes. In the time that he was on the pitch, Arsenal only had 68 ball recoveries. That means he had 22% of Arsenal’s ball recoveries! And accounted for 23% of Arsenal’s total regained possessions for the first 81 minutes. That’s simply amazing.
Cazorla was second on the team and had 20 total recovered possessions (14 ball recoveries, 2 tackles, and 4 interceptions).
Interestingly, if you add Coquelin, Cazorla, and Gabriel together, they accounted for half (40) of Arsenal’s 80 ball recoveries.
One last thing I want to mention which I think tips the books in favor of Coquelin for man of the match: he had two inch-perfect tackles in the box which prevented Liverpool from getting big chance shots on Arsenal’s goal. In fact, despite the ooohing and aaahing of the announcers and the crowd, Liverpool only had one big chance in that game. I put that down, largely, to Coquelin. In that first half, he single-handedly kept Arsenal ticking over: winning the ball back, starting the attacks, and mopping up after the rather disjointed play of Arsenal’s makeshift center back pairing.
Oh yeah, and Coquelin led all players with 91% passing (Walcott went 1/1, that doesn’t count) on 76 attempts.
To be honest I really struggle to find a better player in the EPL in his position at this moment, as Matic is in awful form, Schneiderlin is annonymous, Fernandinho not really tested so far and Spurs play Erik fecking Dier there!
Lurky. That’s his job. I would expect him to make more tackles etc than anyone else.
Like you I’m not a fan of figures. It’s like saying that Ollie G had the most attempts on goal or that Cech made more saves.
I’ve always respected everyone’s opinion but nothing at this stage has changed my mind. I know what I have sat through. As I have said, I very much hope he develops into something very good. I would also take both Matic and Schniederlin over Le Coq at the moment.
As I said, just my opinion. I would also add that it’s the opinion of several that sit near to me as well.
There are only three players in the world football that I would like to see in the place of Coqelin.
Busquets, Javi Martinez or Verratti. Eventually would make a risk with Xhaka and that is about it, for me at least.
No one else would be an upgrade on Coq, no Bender, no Wannayama, not Schneiderlin, not even Matic. Haven’t seen enough of that Sevilla fella we are supposedly after to have an opinion on him, but from what I read the is not a Vieira. No one is.
Spurs.
@ Lurky I don’t think Steve T is saying that Coq is not decent enough. But I don’t see any harm in getting someone like Wanyama in there to help out. Coq wont last the whole season without suspension/injury/ form lose. He is still learning his trade and doing it quite well. We definitely need a DM, striker? most likely wont happen. Truth is if we cant get Benzenma, I say we stick with what we got and work on formation. I don’t see any reason why Theo/ Giroud/ Ox cant start a game together.
Spuds away in the league cup. Shit draw. I like a nice away draw in the league cup. Often have an away day with the kids. I have no intention whatsoever of taking them to that toilet.
Lurky. I respect your views but we will agree to disagree. That said, I very much hope you are proved right.
Cheers Steve.
Nice draw this, I guess we will end up early Spurs only hope for trophy this season.
Lurky @81,
Busquets?!?!?! Are you serious??? We back to this discussion again?! Busquets is incredibly overrated!
LWCs away! No problem! Maybe the kick-start we need!
Come on! Up the Arse!
The discussion over DM misses the point. What we really need, as many in this bar have argued, is a reliable goal scorer. Looking at last season and this one so far, these are our goals scored per game by number of matches (i.e.,, nine times failed to score, 13 times scored one goal, and so on). In 45 out of 60 matches we have failed to score more than twice.
0 x9
1 x13
2 x23
3 x8
4 x6
5 x1
82 Silly Second Yella
Spurs.
Cunts.
What do you mean it’s not a word association test?
Ned- those figures are damning and mean you have to defend very well. We need to improve that scoring rate considerably
Ned. The problem is that players have departed and have never been adequately replaced. We have had players of real quality, let them leave and have not found adequate replacements. We have had goal scorers. It’s not that long ago that we had a squad that included the likes of Henry, Bergkamp, Kanu and Wiltord. Plus all of the wonderful midfield talent. We sold Henry and did not replace him adequately. Re sold RvP and have never replaced him. Add to that the likes of Vieira, Petit, Gilberto, Cesc etc and none have been adequately replaced. We always seem to be playing catch up.
I have moaned for ages about our shots on target stats. Monday night was no different. We have tried to sign a top striker for some years now but have failed miserably. Giroud has had little to no back up whilst we have tried to make top players out of the likes of Sanago, Wellington, Campbell, Chamach and countless others.
A few months back a board member went public saying that we had £200 million to spend. That was denied by AW. Whatever the figure is I would suggest that it’s a substantial sum. We now have less than 7 days to make use of it or I fear it will be Groundhog Day will be a feature of the season.
As I said earlier, the atmosphere after the match was one of resigned acceptance. If we do not strengthen then I fear that the locals may get a tad more than restless.
“Angel Number 82 is a message about your personal spirituality, inner-
strength and tenacity and pursuing your Divine life purpose.”
You see?
Steve T @91,
I hear you and agree with much of what you say.
The most expensive season tickets in Europe (if not the world), money in the bank for “top quality” players (apparently) and a squad that can really challenge. If all of this is true, then why are we still having repeatedly ambivalent discussions and making £40mill +1 bids for world class players and losing Higuain to a club with far less financial clout? Groundhog Day has become acceptable and that’s not at all good.
A very good, long-standing Gooner friend of mine two years ago said something interesting which at the time I didn’t give much credence to; “Arsenal’s become a club for the middle class. No one cares about us working class types here anymore and they treat us like black sheep just cause we talk out about wanting to win the big trophies.” For many working class supporters, Arsenal is, and has always been, their life. They work hard all week to pay huge prices to support their club home and away. Sadly, many in this cohort of loyal fans now feel totally disempowered and sidelined by the manager they so desperately still want to get back to winning ways in the competitions that really matter (i.e. The EPL and the CL) “Can he do it again?” they keep asking. “If he can he should start showing us now. He owes us that much for our loyalty to him.”
COYBG.
Up the Arse!
AW has done so much for the club and has continued to push us forward. But, can we achieve what the fans want and that is the PL or CL. NO other manager would have sacrificed( if you call finishing no worst that 4th with no money) sacrificing. The only clubs who feel different are MU,MC and Chavs, who have spent ungodly sums of money over the past 10 years to win those trophy’s.
I do not believe in this new age of spending that AW is willing to spend and buy what we need because when he says value he is saying as a keeper of the club finances and not as any other manager in the top 6.
I think it is about time AW and the fans start holding Gazidis, the board and the owner( who has already destroyed the MLS Colorado Rapids) accountable on the financial front. Arsenal is making money from the players efforts and the fans paying crazy $ to go to a match. Yet our marketing group brings in far less that those we are attempting to surpass. They should have the same expectations as the players – they are not doing there job and it they do not start and we ever drop out of CL then there will be no $.
SteveT@91, I take your broad point, although I think it applies more to strikers than midfield players or defenders. I wasn’t really trying to say anything more than we don’t score enough goals in most games and that addressing that should be our priority. If we are scoring two or fewer goals in three quarters of our games, as TTG notes@90, we are forever making it harder on ourselves.
Dapper DanC@93: The changes you allude to have occurred across the game, not just at Arsenal. Sadly, the days when we were fans standing on the terraces, rather than the seated customers we now pay so richly to be, are long long.
After three days without internet I finally caught up with the game today. I guess everything has been said, and my view is pretty much what I’ve been saying repeatedly (and yes, irritatingly to some) for seemingly ever.
1. We need another quality defender to cover injuries to our main men. Gabriel had a fair game but Chambers was awful. In this emergency I would have preferred to see Gibbs at LB and Nacho moved inside.
2. We still cannot score. Only 1 goal scored in our last 5 (6?) home games and only 1 goal scored in 3 EPL games this year (+ 1 og). And still we keep a player on the bench who has scored 11 goals in the last 10 games he’s started in. And please, not instead of OG. Theo is NOT a CF, whatever he thinks. He’s a winger with outstanding pace who can break through or round opposition defences and provide the kind of support OG just wasn’t getting. Added to which HE SCORES GOALS.
3. If Özil is a world class play-maker I’m a Dutch clog-maker. The worry is he was obviously trying his best but created zero chances and generally ended up making soft option passes to players in no better position than himself. In my opinion he should play on the wing. If wing was good enough to win the WC with Germany it should be fine for us. That would leave Alexis and Rambo more room to conjure their magic.
All credit to Petr today. I have to admit I wasn’t overly excited when we signed him. I now have to admit I was wrong. The class we’ve been missing for years was plain to see. He reminded me a lot of Pat Jennings, and praise doesn’t come any higher than that.
As ever Reus and Hummels would answer the questions.
Öskar
Is it just me or is the server in hamster mode. Hamster running on its wheel in a Bo Derek running along the beach in 10 mode?
Back-reading I find myself in agreement with Steve T re Coq. Yes he’s added some starch to our MF hub, but with a bit too much risk for my liking. The same could have been said about Paddy V, but in his case he had so much more to offer than just MF hubbing. He could also created and score. Coq works hard but he’ll never be that kind of complete footballer and I believe we could do better in the market. OR, my preference with our present squad, play two creative players (perm two from Rambo, Santi, Jack, Mikel, Jeff R-A) in deep MF.
Öskar
Nah, Cynic, it’s more like Captain Slow than the Hamster.
Mine is the same btw.
Öskar
Stumbles and heads it in.
GOAL
Now, if only our team could score, aye Steve?
Öskar
Sanogooooooooooo
Get in.
Bugger.
Well wide……
🙂
The fundamental problem at the moment is our inability to convert chances as summarised by blogs yesterday.
I agree with Steve T on most things but his requirement for Coq to walk on water as well as give the team backbone is “de trop’. Vieira was a world class exceptional player and his like has not been seen since elsewhere let alone at Arsenal. Coq needs help. Santi has his merits but another player with at least some natural defensive instincts would be a boost to this team.
However the primary aim must be to find someone to convert a far higher proportion of the chances we create. I am sure we are scouring the promising young strikers for the best option now that the big targets seem to be out of reach or unavailable.
Chippy and Joe particularly struck a chord with me but loads of good posts to agree with above.
Steve T,
I just noticed bath has disagreed with you about Coquelin and I, albeit rarely, was about to do the same.
I think he has been as good as anyone I have seen in that position since he came into the side. He made a fantastic difference to us in the second half of last season. Personally, I find his passing range surprisingly good, especially as he started out as a full back.
Crucially for us, and I have everything crossed here, he seems to have matured into a player who is good at resisting injury too.
I would like to see another powerful player in our midfield for sure, quite apart from the necessary backup/competition for Coquelin but, especially considering he has a mere half season in the role, I don’t see what else Coquelin could have done.
I’d have to agree with bath again though and say, sadly, that Giroud will not win us the league. I like Giroud, love his work rate, his link play, his defensive contribution, his willingness to take a battering but he just does not seem to be a clinical finisher.
Put it this way – if he was through one-on-one with the keeper and someone froze time and said you had to put your house on it, would you back him to score or miss. Same goes for Welbeck, for me. Both very hard, honest workers – neither one of them a natural finisher.
Steve T,
You are right about BtMs allergy to going to the bar. You are wrong about Coquelin. 😀
Frustrated as hell that we could not beat an average Mickeys team but there is a long, long way to go. Talk of City moving out of sight is premature in the extreme irrespective of results on Saturday.
We are Arsenal and we specialise in doing things the hard way.
UTA.
Sorry Steve – young Coquelin has won me over too. He’s been brilliant over the past 6 months. I’d like to see someone else come in to provide competition (Rabiot) but only at a sensible cost, unlike say, Morgan Sneiderlinn.
Agree completely with Bath, especially on his analysis of Vieira. A complete one-off talent just like Henry. Arguably those two players were the very best in the world in their positions at their time here and neither of them arrived with big reputations.
Trev – the point you make about Giroud’s profligacy in front of goal is very valid. I didn’t want to mention that specifically in my earlier post because he always gets a hard time when we don’t win and I actually think Giroud has done superbly for us and made the absolute most of his talents during his time here so far. And while I readily accept the point that Welbz isn’t exactly “clinical” in front of the goal either I would make the following points: I think Danny needs to be given more time in that role because he has natural attributes to his game that Giroud will never possess such as pace, physical presence, ability in the air and to kick with both feet which makes him much more fluid and flexible in the way we play. There are many teams in the PL who would love to have a player of his ability lead the line. And if we don’t manage to sign a top striker, then we’ve just got to make the most of what we have and I think Danny deserves a chance. Being honest, I think we’ve really missed him so far this season.
Amid all the talk about strikers and DMs, I actually feel it’s the number of goals we get from midfield that might be the ultimate ‘bellwether’ for indicating if we have a successful season or not. As I said earlier in this thread, Ozil doesn’t yet score enough for an attacking #10, Santi’s completely lost his shooting boots these last 2 seasons, and the Ox desperately needs to add genuine threat in terms of goals and assists to his other admirable qualities (Wilshere’s record is also appalling from my memories). It’s a reason why I think Wenger is always so keen to accommodate Ramsey in his team – he seems the only midfielder with the ‘hunger’ to score goals.
At the moment we’re ever-so-reliant on Alexis and whoever our main striker ends up being (Giroud, Walcott, A.N. Other) both contributing around the 25 goal mark. Most title winning sides always have midfielders bagging around the 10+ goal mark: Man Utd had Scholes, Giggs and Beckham; Chelski have had Lampard and Oscar; and in our recent history, Pires, Ljungberg and Wiltord all regularly found the onion bag. Ultimately, goals win games, and if you have very few people willing to pull the trigger, it can lead to those stats Ned mentioned previously where we rarely score more than 2 goals a game….
I feel the need for a bacon sandwich but I have no bacon and no bread and no money to buy either.
First world problems.
Although I guess people in the third world are suffering the same deprivations. Only worse.
Football content – Adidas Telstar was the greatest ball of all time.
Trev@105, hope I am not jinxing him but Coquelin hasn’t missed a game through injury since December 2013.
Trev knows.
NBN’s stat @88 is seriously eyebrow raising and points to where our key issue lies.
Gregoire: some more numbers for you. These compare goals scored by position by the team last season (2014/15) and the same for the Invincibles (2003/04) — all competitions (and positions determined by how the club recorded the squad before anyone starts complaining that Reyes was really a forward). Regardless, they bear out your point about our current midfielders not being as prolific in front of the onion bag as our heroes of yore.
The headline numbers are:
2014/15: 107 goals scored: 11 by defenders, 33 by midfielders and 63 by forwards;
Invincibles: 101 goals scored: 9 by defenders, 44 by midfielders and 48 by forwards (of which TH14 bagged 39!).
Goals scored:
2014/15
By defenders:
1: Chambers, Debuchy, Gibbs, Monreal,
2: Bellerin, Mertesacker
3: Koscielney
% of total: 10.3% (11/107)
By midfielders:
1: Arteta, Flamini
2: Wilshere
3: Oxlade-Chamberlain, Rosicky
5: Ozil
8: Cazorla
10: Ramsey
% of total: 30.8% (33/107)
By forwards:
1: Sanogo
3: Podolski
7: Walcott
8: Welbeck
19: Giroud
25: Sanchez
% of total: 58.9% (63/107)
2003-04
By defenders
1: Campbell, Cole
3: Toure
4: Gilberto Silva
% of total: 8.9% (9/101)
By midfielders
1: Bentley
3: Vieira
5: Reyes
6: Edu
10: Ljungberg
19: Pires
% total: 43.6% (44/101)
By forwards
1: Kanu
3: Wiltord
5: Bergkamp
39: Henry
% total: 47.5% (48/101)
NBN @ 112
I guess the problem with those figures is that these days we effectively play one more forward and one less midfielder in our starting XI.
Yep, I had missed your stat @88, Ned, as highlighted by N7.
It’s very surprising that for a side with our free flowing, attacking reputation, we failed to score more than once in 22 games – just over a third of the 60 matches.
I too missed your interesting stats @88, Ned.
I initially thought that the bigger problem there was the number of times we failed to score rather than the number of times we scored more than twice. However a shift of the mode to 3 by scoring a few more times than twice would have made a substantial difference to the season.
The stats @113 prove what a superb and influential player a certain RP7 was. Those were the days!
Thank the monks for all the work and spare them their flagellation tonight.
NBN
Love your figures as ever but there is a difficulty in comparison. In the Invincibles Henry was the only true forward and Bergkamp played off him. Everything went through Henry( with very good reason!).
In our current team we class two or three players as forwards- usually it’s Sanchez and Giroud but we could theoretically have Theo( Welbeck) – Giroud- Sanchez( three forwards) or Ramsey- Giroud- Ox which is one.
What your figures do show is how dependent the Invincibles were on Henry, thank goodness he didn’t get injured that season, how brilliant Pires was ( again not something we didn’t know) because he was a genuine wide midfield player and how few goals came from central midfield. Dennis given that he was a card- carrying genius didn’t score many that season and Ljungberg chipped in usefully although less prolifically than 2002.
Similarly Henry took penalties and Cazorla takes them now, most of his goals are pens from my recollection.
My conclusion from all this is that I would very much like a 2015 version of Thierry. 39 goals from a top striker would win us the League although I know a number of these goals were in the CL . Arsene, please go out and buy one immediately.
Finally on the Coquelin debate I am very much on the side of his big fans. He is a very good player indeed and right up with the best DMs in the league. Wenger was right in saying if we had paid £25 mill for him he would have been acclaimed as a superstar. I had trouble appreciating Gilberto for a long time but we’ve had no one in that position as good as Coquelin since him , in my view.
Trev is also right about Giroud and his finishing and Welbeck and his finishing. Theo is a better finisher than both.
This analysis on football finances contains good and bad news. The good is the extraordinary performance of the team financially given the amounts spent in the transfer market. But Citeh who have spent hundreds of millions more have won the League twice.
Kroenke will be delighted that an asset he purchased a few years ago has effectively doubled in value without any investment from him at all. He hasn’t loaded debt onto the club like the Glazers or taken massive dividends but neither has he pumped in money like Sheikh Mansour or Abramovich.
So why on earth would we expect him to want to sell an asset appreciating like this? Where else in the world could he get a return like this? Given the new TV deal is coming along he is incredibly well set. So those who would like to see a less passive owner are likely to be disappointed.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2555578-arsenal-reportedly-worth-over-1-billion-latest-details-comments-reaction?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=arsenal
N7@113: I’m not sure that is so true, although where the Invincibles offensive 4-4-2 and last season’s offensive 4-2-3-1 become much the same formation is a matter of opinion — on which I don’t really have an opinion :). I was just intrigued by Gregoire’s drink @108 and wanted to see what the numbers were (it is the equivalent of the proverbial wet Wednesday in Stoke here at Castle Ned today, and we don’t get out much as it is). Also it is just two seasons being compared, so a snapshot of two seasons but no more.
Trev@114: Quite. As others have noted, those numbers speak as much as anything to a low conversion rate of all our attacking, which, to Bath’s point @115, is why a little bit of quality at No 9 would make such a difference.
Bath@115: Now don’t go giving them ideas…
Ttg@116: agree that the comparison shouldn’t be taken too far. Agree, too, that AW should buy a TH14 v2016 immediately and pick up the newest model of RP7 while he is at it.
Just reading those names again above brings back so many memories of that team from the early 2000s.
Personally, it was agony and ecstasy for me.
Ecstasy because that group of players were just so incredible to watch. As a graduate of the 1970 Fairs Cup win, the 1971 Double and the subsequent far too rapid break up of that team, and a good few following years of some pretty ordinary stuff, I found the years from 1998 to 2004 like a fantasy land.
You had to pinch yourself to believe that we not only had a few truly world class players, but that we had several players who were THE BEST players in the world in their respective positions. Even then you had to wonder if any club side in the world, let alone The Arsenal, would ever match the quality assembled amongst those eleven players.
Agony because it was the only period since the 1970s that I had not had a season ticket. I had given mine up due to repeated knee surgeries – surprise, surprise – and consequent long term absences, only to find that getting one back again was not the relatively simple matter it once had been. Anyone remember the North Bank Standing Season Ticket ? I do !
Begging and borrowing tickets from 1998 to 2004 was an extremely difficult thing to do and I did not manage to catch much of those fantastic teams in the flesh. Even the TV images of those days will never die though. We were privileged indeed to see, all in the same team –
Gilberto Silva, Patrick Vieira, Dennis Bergkamp, Robert Pires, Freddie Lungberg and Thierry Henry – seems just as unbelievable reading it now.
Here’s one bit to enjoy again –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-_H9Et8aDU
🙂
Trev,
They were great times and my heart goes out to you. It must have been AgoKnee( see what I did there?) not to get to games then. My regret is I’m not sure if I enjoyed it as much as I could have done. When the season is on you can rarely relax and enjoy it.
If you remember we went on a big unbeaten run from 2002 and into the next season ended by the Grannyshagger at Goodison. During that run we played Sunderland at Highbury and were two or three up after twenty minutes. The bloke in front of me turned around and claimed it was getting boring because it was too easy. I told him to enjoy it while he could. He still sits in front of me at the new place and I often remind him about that .
That team was sublime and the period between 2002-4 was particularly special but there were still a lot of people criticising Wenger then. It was the best club team England has ever seen and built on a shoestring.
And Kevin De Bruyne signs for Citeh for £58 million. Bloody ridiculous
Thanks for all that research Ned – intriguing.
In short, I guess it shows that for us to win the league, we’re probably going to need Ramsey and a surprise other midfielder (Ozil, Oxlade-Chamberlain?) to step up and supply 10+ goals each from midfield, Alexis to sustain his 20-25 goals level, and someone else from Giroud/Walcott/Welbeck (assuming we don’t buy another striker) to have a storming season. Obviously, Cech, Kos, le Coq et al doing their bit at the back will help a lot too…I’m not saying all these things can’t happen, but they need to happen for us to finish 1st as opposed to 3rd or 4th.
PS – Ironically, talking about goalscoring midfielders, and just seen Dan Crowley score a beautiful goal for Barnsley v Everton.
PPS – Anyone else notice Vermaelen start Barca’s first league game of the season and complete the entire 90 minutes? Genuinely hope the guy stays fit now (unless of course we draw Barca in the Champions Lge).
Gregoire
Crowley is very promising , he’s another off the Wilshere/ Brady/ production line . Talking to a friend who watches Division One he thinks he will have been sent to Barnsley because they pass the ball in a tough league where he will need to learn to look after himself
Yes TTG – been watching him very closely tonight, and he looks a class apart in my humble opinion (and by that, I include the Everton players). Reminds me a bit of a right-footed Wilshere, except he plays a bit further up the pitch, he releases the ball quicker than Wilshere, and he looks a goal threat too – exciting to watch his progress….
brilliant back drink
must say
always a fan of steve T
promotes fantastic exchanges
( yer up the left about le coq notwithstanding)
and
thunder T 100% re
the level of discourse here
as regards blogs
but
i think
it is the benchmark
regardless of medium
heavyweight stuff
just brilliant
.
and
jeez trev
i didn’t know yer knee troubles
go so far back
fuck
yer advice to me about my stiff neck
was amazing
lord knows
i haven’t looked back since
🙂
Heh cba,
you haven’t looked back since –
is that ‘cos you can’t turn round ?! 🙂
see ned regarding explana. . . . wha
🙂
ya cheeky bollix 😉
Knee troubles go back a looong way, cba.
A kindly trouble seeking, idiot opponent stamped through it while I was giving his team mate a hand up near the end of a hard fought match.
Tore cartilage, damaged the kneecap and ligaments and it went very rapidly downhill from there. 🙁
howdy buddy
hope yer well
These are the seeding pots for tomorrow’s CL group stage draw:
Pot 1
Barcelona
Chelsea
Bayern Munich
Juventus
Benfica
Paris Saint-Germain
Zenit Saint Petersburg
PSV Eindhoven
Pot 2:
Real Madrid
Atletico Madrid
Porto
Arsenal
Manchester Utd
Valencia
Bayer Leverkusen
Manchester City
Pot 3:
Shakhtar Donetsk
Sevilla
Lyon
Dynamo Kiev
Olympiakos
CSKA Moscow
Galatasaray
Roma
Pot 4:
BATE Borisov
Borussia Monchengladbach
Wolfsburg
Dinamo Zagreb
Maccabi Tel Aviv
Gent
Malmo
Astana
I type like the man with many fingers
whose typewriter only accepts thumbs
.
‘pologies
I’m well thanks mate.
And yourself ?
trev
schooldays playing football was gaa for me
handsome shoulder charge
try and empty every wee speedy cunt
lookin to get goalwise
pointwise not my problem
🙂
we played football football
at lunchtime
when the real colours came out
Apparently Zelalem had a superb debut tonight. Maitland- Niles and Crowlley are doing very well on loan and Akpom is on fire. We have Reine Adelaide back at base. The future looks very exciting if these boys develop as they can
Gents. I hear what you say but I’m still not convinced. I want to be but I’m not. No doubt we will do it one day over a beer. I hope to be convinced. I hope I’m very wrong and he turns into something special. Time will tell I guess.
I do think one major problem with the club was highlighted above and that is the owner and the board. We are very much a business and run by a man who I would suggest has little interest in the playing side of the club, just as long as the money keeps rolling in.
Some very interesting potential Champions League groups.
fuck off !
*lights flicker back on*
*accepts no responsibility for tripping over leccy lead*
sorry for the inconvenience
hopefully this normal service will be resumed shortly
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SuyY755KQdg
.
UP THE ARSENAL !
Will be Barca, want it to be Barca, it will be great to watch and we are not expected to finish above them in the group. So lets play the best and beat the best or else second is anyway ours whoever in the group.
Skynews report Cavani done to us. Well no thank you, he is no upgrade to Giroud, aint mobile, will get the odd goal but does go missing in big games, so no thank you.
in my head
arsene says
“that’s what i’m talkin’ bout”
blaxploitation stylee
.
🙂
oh
someone snuck in while i was bullshitting
😉
howdy vinay
🙂
You killed it deader than Cecil the lion, cba.
I hope you didn’t pose for selfies with the corpse of the server.
🙂
photo avoider me , cynic
despite womenfolk of townlands near
begging for signed blurrbs
for their mantlepieces
these poor lovelorn ladies
have longstanding husbands
friends of mine
who
should stop long standing
and
get handsome
i blame the parents
in other news
100% on the telstar ball
Bayern.
And SAF still fixing the draw for Manure.
aww fuck BM
Bayern……..!
Olympiakos – not so bad.
Bayern is a rough draw but it does mean we can’t Monchengladbach or Wolfsburg now in pot 4. The rest of that pot looks OK, though would not like the trip to Astana.
Dinamo Zagreb – not too bad a draw in the end.
I’d forgotten this draw was on. Group H is a real throbber in terms of crowd appeal. Wow, they’ll be queueing round the block to get into those games.
Ah well, Bayern again. But not bad. Could have gotten City’s draw.
cracker
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iBpCFpJgbZk
one for the elderly
Two ways forward:
Get second and hope to draw Group H winner for round of 16.
or
Evenly split Bayern results and tonk the rest and place first on GD. And draw Group H second for good measure.
Not the easiest CL draw but we should end up at least second in the group despite some potentially tricky trips to Croatia and Greece. At least we don’t have to go further east than Piraeus, and have dodged the 3,620 mile trip from the Ems to the Astana Arena in Kazakhstan. New York is closer. So is Timbuktu, come to that.
If we can sort out our home form, avoid brainfarts against Olympiakos and Zagreb and NOT LOSE TO BAYERN AT HOME THIS TIME, we can certainly qualify and even win this group.
COYGs
Bayern Munchen? Easy! Bring it on!
DM and a Worldy frontman by the 1st Sept = Quadruple!
Up the Arse all season! COYBG!
It is the ‘by the 1st Sept’ that is the tricky part, Dapper Dan. All the rest: piece of cake.
Can’t wait for the breaking news, right at the arse end of deadline day, that Arsenal has secured a deal with Kevin Nolan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>