Gunners Firing Blanks
Apr 24th, 2016 by 'holic
Arsene Wenger opted to go with an unchanged line-up at the Stadium of Light although there was a welcome return to the bench for Jack Wilshere. The Gunners started the stronger and with barely three minutes on the clock Alex Iwobi drilled an effort wide from the edge of the area.
Sunderland attempted an immediate response but Petr Cech was quick to palm away from Defoe. Before the tenth minute had arrived former Gunner Vito Mannone had foiled Olivier Giroud and, from the resulting corner, Per Mertesacker. M’Vila’s long range effort was well wide but Khazri’s strike was deflected away from goal by Koscielny. Cattermole hit a half-volley wide of Cech’s left hand post as Sunderland offered a moment of pressure.
As the twentieth minute approached Mohamed Elneny tried to chip Mannone but the ‘keeper won that battle. Laurent Koscielny’s ‘trip’ on Defoe led to a free-kick that van Aanholt planted onto the join of post and bar with Cech beaten. That was what you call a let-off. Sunderland’s pressing of the ball was testing Arsenal’s passing accuracy, and denying the Gunners any space in and around the box.
A rapid break around the half-hour mark ended with Mesut Ozil’s deflected left foot shot being saved by a diving Mannone. A minute later Cattermole upended Elneny on the edge of the box and Alexis struck the free-kick through the wall only for Mannone to pull of a superb save. He produced another to deny Iwobi from the corner that followed.
The significant moments of the half started nine minutes from half-time when Hector Bellerin’s poor headed clearance teed up Jermain Defoe who volleyed the ball into Mertesacker’s elbow from point blank range. Mike Dean took the view that it was not deliberate, and I must say I would not have expected it to be given at the other end, an acid test of any such incident.
Of course we went down the other end, Giroud set up a shooting chance for Iwobi and the ball was deflected onto Yedlin’s outstretched hand. That too was deemed not to be deliberate by Dean, not unreasonably. At the whistle it was doubtful that either set of fans would have appreciated the stalemate.
Cech earned his wages with a fine double save from Defoe and M’Vila and a minute later he had to dive full length to keep out Khazri’s fierce drive. Worryingly, the hosts were out of the blocks faster than the Arsenal. Giroud fashioned an opportunity that Iwobi sliced across the face of goal as we made an effort to awake from our slumbers.
Just past the hour Defoe got free only to chip wide of the mark. It was another warning. If Arsenal had dominated the possession and shots statistics in the first half (75% and 12 to 6) the tables were being turned emphatically. Koscielny had to be at his best to cut out a cross in a two on one situation. Sunderland were looking much more determined now.
The replacement of Iwobi by Theo Walcott with twenty minutes remaining was something of a surprise, but Giroud making way for Danny Welbeck was not. Sunderland took that as their cue to send on Watmore for Borini, then former Gunner Seb Larrson for Kirchhoff.
When Mannone went walkabout with ten minutes to go the last man Kaboul bundled Welbeck over and somehow escaped the award of a free-kick and an interesting decision on what colour card he should have received. At least with that and an absurd booking of Elneny I was spared writing that Dean had had a good game for the first time ever.
Welbeck tested Mannone before the sight of Jack Wilshere making a return to action replacing Ozil with seven minutes remaining. In the 87th minute Alexis engineered a shooting opportunity in the box and drew a wonderful save at full stretch by Mannone.
As the game limped into four added minutes Kone’s overhead kick sailed thankfully high and wide. That Sunderland were finishing the stronger was yet another indictment of the Gunners under-fire manager. This was another bad day for him.
Only mathematically can we hope to catch Tottenham, and in all honesty we will have to win at City to stand a chance of finishing third. Today’s indifferent second-half performance from his team will once again stir the ever nastier debate about Arsene’s future. It is awful watching his tenure unravel in this manner.
179 Responses to “Gunners Firing Blanks”
Wow … That was quick !!! You certainly are not firing balnks holic
Am I first?
Nope
Nothing new. Same old Arsenal.
Out from behind the couch already, ‘holic. 😀
Excellent match report and the match I saw. Not too inspiring.
So much for the favourable run-in. Meh.
Now come on Leicester..
Who is this interloper?
Sorry didn’t mean to take your name but seems our mums had the same idea
Very fair report, we are not ruthless or clinical enough away from home and our goal difference tells a story. Maybe we will beat Villa 12-0 in the last match to finish third but more likely we will have to rely on other teams to help us get fourth from Man Yoo who are currently playing better. With Mertesacker and Cech back we defend better and we might have won at West Ham with them. This won’t be a season etched in my memory for good reasons
Have not missed a single minute of arsenal this season …. Must say it has been anything but fun , most of the matches we have won too have not been classy. I can count on my fingers, the number of matches where we have turned on the style.
We are not a possession based team , we are not a counter attacking team , we are not a pressing team … Don’t know what sort of style we play. It just seems like the pkayers have been asked to make up the style of play as they play along – it all seems a bit Hail Mary at the moment .
Rant over – depressing , depressing , depressing !!!!
No worries Larry.Have one on me.
Blanks Firing Gunners
To think we were top of the league in December and with all the promise this season held. Sad to finally have it confirmed that Wenger’s not going to win this league again. And the dreams of him going out with a bang will remain just that. Its not surprising though, a lot of people saw this coming and were repeatedly mocked and laughed out of the bar.
‘Holic, you really do know how to pick out a word.
Indifferent, indeed. It’s the worst word you can use to label a team’s overall performance and manner, and, sadly, that goes right to the manager’s doorstep.
Bloody useless.
Disappointing game but so has been our season. 1st things first WHAT THE HELL is giroud doing in the starting line up ahead of welbeck?Giroud has been in woeful touch nowadays while welbeck has shown real attacking spark since coming back from injury.Now we are in danger of missing the “4th place” medal.Wenger should be so angry with himself and his players for letting this chance slip but hes at it giving excuses again.I have been AW in so out but im struggling to find a reason why he should stay next year?UNLESS he really breaks the bank and signs a top quality st and cdm.Apart from that he needs to slate the players for underperforming and try plan b when plan a fails to work vs small teams.A killer instinct is lacking at arsenal especially when taking chances and reacting to adverse circumstances.The one which leicester and i hate to say this, but spurs so eminently have
Ranieri showing Wenger how to win at home against Swansea, all without his best striker.
That’s a championship calibre performance by the Foxes. Keep it up vs. ManUre next week!
Very quickly in ‘holic!
A fair report and tempered as usual.
“Today’s indifferent second-half performance from his team will once again stir the ever nastier debate about Arsene’s future. It is awful watching his tenure unravel in this manner.”
Couldn’t have said it any better!
Arselove @10,
Spot on! I don’t know what kind of team we are now either?
As for Arsene Wenger staying for another season to complete his contract, and then going out this summer and “spending big” trying to get the “Top Quality” players he needs to finally try and challenge; which Top Quality players are going to join a football club where the manager they are signing for may not be there at the end of their very first season even if that club is in the Champions League? It’s just not as straight forward as the AKB fans think I’m very afraid to say!
Up the Arse!
We lost to this piss poor Swansea and Leicester wiped the floor with them. Leicester’s performance this season has been no fluke, they know how to defend and have the strikers to find goals. I hope they go on to win the title.
We used to be so good till the 2008-09 season as a team and even beyond we had players of quality who could still see us through matches like today’s. Now we look pedestrian and sterile, we cannot defend to save our lives and we are becoming worse by the day. Everyone knows how we play and are ready with a plan to counter. Our fitness levels used to be very good but for the first time today, I thought we were wilting physically towards the end when Sunderland were haring around. All round decline. I hope they don’t drop out of the top four and it looks like we will not be seeing St Totteringham’s day this year, a pity. I hope that AW by saying that Arsenal is comfortable playing Thursdays and Sundays doesn’t mean that he wouldn’t worry about dropping below 4th place.
Consolation : We beat Leicester twice!
😀
..oh and Giroud should be second choice till further notice!
You have at least another season left of this. It’s like Lost. Too fucking long, nobody gave a shit by the end and when it was over everybody was like, “Is that it? FFS!”
Cynic,
Haha, that comment is shining light in the darkness. Never did see Lost but it did seem to be on TV long after I stopped thinking about watching it.
Watched the game and I’m truly lost for words with what we have become on the pitch. Players like Alexis and Ozil are shadows of what they use to be as if to say they got this Arsenal sickness all together.
What style? We have no style the players themselves have no communication what so ever. It’s scary for a club like Arsenal because we have no direction in our style of play. Scary times ahead!
There are few consolations tonight. I’ve just watched an awful Watford team who we just stuffed 4-0 play a semi- final we should have been in and Leicester marmalise a pathetic Swansea side we lost at home to. Our home form in 2016 has been very poor but surely we can get six points from the last two games. That means United have to get maximum points from their four remaining games to get fourth. That would mean a qualifying tie and probably the usual spending freeze until we know we are in the CL proper.
Holic is his usual measured and discreet self in describing our predicament but there is real ennui on this board today because we haven’t lost so the usual suspects haven’t come on to lash Wenger but most of us are pessimistic that much will change with this manager and this board and this owner. In fact we can almost predict what will happen because we’ve seen it so often. We won’t make adequate improvement and the side will fall short next season.
What will really piss us all off is if Tottenham, already a better side ( that hurts) strengthen their side in the close season and don’t have to go into penury as we did, by selling all their best players ( and not replacing them adequately) while building a brand new stadium. They say timing is everything and maybe their timing is more propitious than ours as the TV revenue may cushion them financially.
But will our disapproval and disappointment touch Kroenke? I very much doubt it
I am of the impression that he is going to start Ramsey until he finds him a partner in that rotten midfield of ours. Just for a reminder, he tried with Wilshere, Cazorla, Arteta, Le Coq, Elneny… None seems to worked!!!
So one has to ask himself…. how long?
How long and how many points lost until you realise that the problem is not in Ramsey’s partners, but maybe, just maybe in Ramsey?
And how long until you realize that the players don’t want to fight for you anymore? Bar Elneny of course, but he will get there himself in a while. They just don’t care. I wanted this season to end about month ago or so. Today it became crystal clear to me that the players want the same!
And how long until you realize that you’ve fucking lost it. And that you don’t have the answers anymore. And that maybe, just maybe, it is time to live.
We’ll always remember you. You are the greatest manager of this club. I will tell my daughter about you. But please, leave this club at the end of this season.
If Wenger loves this club, like he says he does and not the 8million he gets yearly he should just call it quit and leave.. Adios. Enough of these nonsense. I wish the damn season can end already.
Honestly, who is surprised by this result?
Not a bit.
Another gutless performance with no cutting edge at all. Pathetic. Has AW lost the dressing room? It sure looks like it.
He lost the dressing room long time ago.
I have a funny feeling that Wenger will be leaving. I don’t know why. Folorn hope, probably, as he doesn’t have it in him to leave and he’ll never get sacked.
There’s been a lot of talk about how he has earned the right to leave on his own terms, but he’s just an employee. On £8m a year for losing.
I really don’t know what this club has turned into.
Someone said to me the other day (not an Arsenal fan) that it must be a really sterile experience thesedays, because there’s no expectation of a title challenge, we’re never going to get relegated and even finishing outside the top four is highly unlikely even this season. So what’s the point? It’s just going through the motions stuff and what’s worse, we all seemed perfectly happy with that kind of thing until this year. They reckoned we now have the team we deserved, for putting up with the same old same old for the last 12 years, and it’s no use fighting each other because we’ve got what we earned.
He had fair points, but I still called him a cunt.
I also heard a whisper, although I don’t give it much credence, that Gazidis has wanted Wenger out for years but Stan rules the roost and won’t have it. Probably bollocks
Oh dear. I’ve not seen any of the game. I’ve been out at a rugby tournament all day. I have recorded the game although I’m guessing the delete button is my starting point.
I did check out the stats. They have Arsenal stamped all over them I’m afraid. As I have said on almost every occasion this season when a poor result has sways been the fault of someone else. Perhaps, just perhaps, we are just not good enough?
I’ve seen pictures of twats with banners in the Arsenal end. I wish they would just fuck off. They help no one and will have zero effect on Stanley, Big Ivan or any other board member. All they do is heap further embarrassment on the club. I’m all for fans being able to voice their opinions but they just take it one step too far for me.
I’m not sure where we go from here. When there were those already claiming the title some months ago I suggested that we would be wise to look over our shoulders. I would suggest that we hope that Citeh have a mega tough champions league semi to boost our chances of taking anything up there.
More egg chasing next weekend so I’m spared the Norwich game. Hopefully The Baggies will get something from The spuds and hopefully the mancs won’t turn up when Leicester rock up. The end of the season really could not come soon enough now.
Move on nothing to see here 🙂
Just what I saw, Guvna.
Very disappointing but really not unexpected.
Spot on, Arselove @10.
Once again we looked sterile.
It’s been a privilege to watch Arsene’s great teams. Like many here I hoped and expected that he might build another great team and hoped that he would win another big prize before he passed the team on to an able successor. Sadly that doesn’t look or feel like the current direction of travel.
I fear this will get worse before it gets better.
I sincerely hope that Leicester win the league this year.
Just home after 13 hour round trip.Had to be the most subdued away crowd I’ve virtually ever known. No singing in concourses before. A fair few empty seats. Some noble first half efforts to get the singing going, but very quiet second half. Some pushing and shoving at the end when a couple of banners came out.
Frankly I can’t wait for this bastard season to end.
Steve T, so what do you want the fans to do? if I was living in London and had the opportunity to go to a match, I probably will be one of those fans with the banners. That’s how they see it fit to voice their opinions. At the end of the day, we fans all want the same thing for our club. After 20 years, and no PL title for the last 12 years, we all can agree that its time for a change. I know Kroenke has his faults, but Wenger makes most calls when it comes to what we see on the field week in- week out.
I commend your intestinal fortitude Countryman.
You are what is becoming increasingly rare,an Arsenal supporter through thick and thin.
It is shown up in stark reality in the Bar,when there are only a handful of posts during the game,whereas in the ” good old days ” up to Christmas and beyond,there were posts aplenty.
Only the bleaters and the moaners are still around,venting their spleens at the serial failings of Arsene and Arsenal.
Even the veritable Eternal Optimist BTM has flown the coop,worn down by the constant negativity in the Bar.
I did voice the opinion pre season,after no outfield signings,that we would be fighting our usual battle for a top 4 spot.
My expectations have been met,so i have nothing to be disappointed about.
Anyone who thought we would do any better was deluded.
SAG. What do I want them to do??? Support their team. It’s as simple as that.
What do you honestly think some stupid banner achieves? All it achieves is more negative press, more negative comments and more derision from the media. Do you honestly believe that a few banners will affect what Arsene may or may not do? Do you think Stan sits on his ranch watching the highlights and says to himself ” I’m glad that banner is there to help me make my mind up?”
I’m all for fans having a voice. Im all for the fans having a voice. But I do believe that you should support your team. Unveiling a banner at full time just to get on the tele does not wash for me.
Trust me SAG. I’m as critical of the club as a whole as anyone. But I won’t be waving some stupid banner at anytime in the future.
Drink on the bar for you countryman. Very well deserved.
The biggest problem or challenge we now face as a club is not if we can still come third or fourth.
The biggest problem this club now faces is just how bad the ” culture of comfort” has become.
The culture of not wanting or needing to win badly looks set in stone just like some players first 11 spot is, such as Ramsey and a few of his mates.
Leicester have built a very simple club culture:
Winning is everything
Fighting for your spot week in week out based on winning
The club does not fund your haircuts and pedicures.
Arsene Wenger has built a culture of ” not winning is acceptable” and has pampered the players so much they are now uber sheik soft.
I.e. Spoilt pampered overpaid brats..
The biggest problem our club faces is how to change the culture to a winning culture once again…
The new boss whoever they will be shortly has a massive job to execute and money is not the only answer
Countryman
You’re a great loyalist and deserve huge credit for following the club as you do. That must have been a labour of love today!
I think it is difficult to strike the right mood in here sometimes . It is a very pro- Arsenal bar but we are all deeply disappointed by the failings this season . Nevertheless the idea of wanting Arsenal to lose or unveiling banners is anathema to me, especially when I read it is the idea of someone who has supported the club only in the relative good times. You pick your club and you stick with it. By all means criticise constructively but don’t ever wish ill on the club.
Evening all. Some soul-searching going on tonight? We all want the same outcome…
There aren’t many posts during games as we are all bored shitless or, as I was today, doing better things with our afternoons. I recorded it for later viewing and it was the expected toil.
It is odd how there are certain players who get praised to the heavens, yet they are producing nothing in a failing team. I suppose ordinary is the new world class.
So them having a banner is not supporting the team? most of the banners is directed at Wenger/board/ owner. How can the board know how fans feel? of course not that it matters because they are not going to do shit about it. I still don’t see how making your feelings known to the board somehow relates to not supporting the team.
Everyone has their own opinion as in how to move forward. We just have to agree to disagree here. That’s just my opinion.
Dunno about having to beat $iteh to have a chance of third, ‘holic, we may have to beat them to hang on to 4th. Lose and we’re at the mercy of Manure dropping points.
To be fair, BB, Ollie G had zero service from any direction today – everything short, wide or too high.
Encouraging to see Leicester unaffected by loss of Vardy. The only hope left in this godawful season is that they deny the LWCs the title and us the ultimate humiliation. A win at the Toilet could also keep Manure off our tails. For a week anyway.
Again I find myself in total agreement with Clive. The game went as I wrote it in the previous post. 4-2-4 does not work, every time we play it regardless of the midfield pairing we are toothless. Forwards play too deep to get the ball back and move it up, the team is completely unbalanced, as a result we play slowly and it makes players look bad individually. We got a lucky escape today, thanks to Cech mostly.
As for the season, everyone in the bar including the doomers would have sold their mother in August for the dream of finishing above Chelski, Citeh, Manure and Liverpool. But hey let’s not look at anything remotely positive, that’s heresy nowadays.
As for Gazidis he’s Kroenke’s tool. Our commercial revenue is lagging astonishingly behind our rivals and the gaps gets wider every year. As others have pointed out the fish rots from the head, if the owner had any desire for us to be successful (which he has reiterated he does not) Gazidis’ head would have been the first one to roll.
And hats off to Countryman, may your loyalty be rewarded sooner than later!
Second best throughout second half with only a few fluent spells across 90 minutes. Had it not been for Sunderland’s poor deliveries and over all mediocrity we would have been solidly beaten. Watching an Arsenal game where we gradually fade away into the Spring sunshine (or rather autumn sunset here in Joburg) is as depressing as it gets. I doubt fatigue has got anything to do with it. Even a mediocre team seem capable of snapping our spine in 5 minutes, leaving us rudderless for long periods of time. Yesterday, Elneny and of course Iwobi were the only bright sparks aside for some decent defending. Wenger looks more battered and bruised than ever. I think he is starting to realise that his great accomplishments at the Arsenal will not end on a happy note. His pain is shared by all true Gooners!
@48 Matt,
Amusing post
“The game went as I wrote it in the previous post. 4-2-4 does not work, every time we play it regardless of the midfield pairing we are toothless.”
You can write that 4-2-4 doesn’t work in the next post if you like it as well, but Leicester have a pretty good chance to win this season PL with a mobile 4-2-4 formation.
It seems to me that it works for them. But, who knows, maybe they have the manager who actually knows how to implement it and players that are tactically prepared for it.
“everyone in the bar including the doomers would have sold their mother in August for the dream of finishing above Chelski, Citeh, Manure and Liverpool.”
Liverpool? Since when finishing above Liverpool is an achievement worthy of selling my mum? I must have missed something over the years.
City? A quick look at the table, will show you the fact that City are above us at the moment, and we have to go to their place probably needing something from that game.
Man Utd? We have 5 points lead at the moment, but they have a game in hand and play far better then us at the moment. Finishing above them this season is possible, but absolutely not guarantied.
Finally, we are above the worst Chelski side in a decade!
So are So’ton and Tots. And West Ham. Oh, and Leicester. Add couple of other teams, too.
But hey, it finally happened, we are above Chelski, I am so happy about it, what a glorious, marvelous, delightful season this is after all.
Mum, you are gone.
It doesn’t matter who is below you in the table if someone is above you.
Especially if one of the teams above you is Spurs.
@Lurky: 4-2-4 works for Leicester. It worked for the Invincibles. Surely it works for other teams somewhere. This season it’s been the one constant behind us playing pedestrian.
Could it work with a better manager? Very likely.
Will we get a better manager? Your bet is as good as mine. You are free to trust Kroenke, Gazidis and lady luck to find and land a better manager. I just don’t. Not saying it can’t happen but the odds are low.
I truly, deeply hope to be proven wrong and you to be proven right.
If you’re right we’re champions or narrowly close as soon as Wenger is off. If I’m right top 4 were the good old days.
To make 4-2-4 work in a non pedestrian way you have to stop picking the players who amble about and slow everything down. And much as they are loved in this bar, that means Ramsey and Ozil.
Shufflers, circle turners, flickers and Hollywood pass attempters.
You need pacier, more direct, players not human handbrakes.
OK, Matt.
Lets stick with Wenger until we find a new owner and a new CEO.
Ok Lurky, let’s fire Wenger and get a worse manager right now.
I can play that game too.
12 years without winning the title being acceptable is everything that is wrong with this club
Morning Gooners, Goonerette’s and fickle supporters.
What a season it’s been. At least we’ve been consistent over the years.
The question is, how do we win the league and then the Champions League.
Simple targets with less simple journey’s.
Our performances need to improve, by at least 10-12 points. Cech may have earned us 10-15 this season, we just need other players who can follow suit. It’s a difficult one because on the one hand you have loyalty and development to consider, but then on the other hand, we cannot continue to consistently under achieve by being inconsistent.
Changes are required, but what are they going into next season?
I would start with going all out for a 30+ a season striker
Or, Matt,
let’s fire Wenger and get younger, better, more motivated, modern manager.
Let’s play the game why not?
Nothing will change next season it will be exactly the same like this one and previous ones before that. Same old same old is ringing in my ears.
Things will change if either Wenger goes which brings in a new manager then we have to go through a transition period which means we will have to wait another season to see how he (who cannot be named yet) manages the team. The other option is for Wenger to completely change his transfer policy which I doubt will ever happen but at least in his last year he could do such thing and surprise us all. God know what will happen but this club needs a change in direction!
Love Wenger to bits for what he has done at our club don’t me wrong but it does seem a bit like is over doing it and making it worse in the process.
@Lurky. Great idea, who do you have in mind?
I’ll start:
Koeman
Tuchel
Garcia
Who else?
ATG,
There are three options as far as I can see.
1) We either patiently persevere with Wenger until he gets it right. Which I am sure will happen one day (he says).
2) We see what a new manager can do, in the same way we did when we brought Wenger in
3) We buy the league / With Wenger
If I’m being totally honest, I would prefer 1 & 3. That’s because I’m a sentimental old fool.
Matt, I find the effective pressing football of Dortmund under Tuchel very similar to what I want from an Arsenal side. He is an interesting choice.
But if we are serious about the title next year, why don’t try and get Simeone or Joachim Low.
Arsene Wenger was appointed as an unknown manager to all Gooners at the end of September 1996 after the 1996-1997 season had already started and following Bruce Rioch’s sacking.
Arsene Wenger won the league and FA Cup double the following season after having had his first full pre-season and season during the 1997-1998 campaign where he challenged and beat SAF’s ManU.
Ergo, I do not see why any “new manager” that is young and hungry can’t do exactly the same thing, even under Ivan Gazidis and Stan Kroenke, that Arsene Wenger did back then in his full season as an unknown with this group of players and a couple or three of his own?!
We all waited back then so why would we not wait again now?
Up the Arse!
The Club Always and Nothing Else!
Cynic @54, “Circle turners”
Very funny stuff. Still chuckling…
Sad but true.
If Wenger could sell the recipe for 4th spot it would be something like:
Get a couple of circle turners
Mix in a few sideways passers
Throw in a regular dose of excuse makers
Add some three week injuries that last much longer
Don’t forget to add the slowest fullback in world football plus a couple of unknown fullbacks just for the hell of it
last but not least, combine them all with a manager who can’t find a single outfield player in all of the world
@ Lurky and Matt
Tuchel would be a fantastic appointment, but he’s only a year into his time at Dortmund, so I doubt he’s attainable (beyond the “everyone is attainable” fantasy occasionally used to bash the club). Maybe one for down the line.
Simeone…. I think would divide opinion. His teams are incredibly effective, but they’re also fairly ugly to watch and not above outright cheating; Simeone was sent off at the weekend for instructing a ball boy to chuck an extra ball onto the pitch during an opposition attack. I don’t think he’d be a natural fit at Arsenal, given the club ethos, and he also barely speaks English, which I suspect would be an issue.
All of that said, he’s without doubt the best manager who may actually be available this summer – if he can be coaxed from his beloved Athletico – and he’s the only one I could imagine coming in and immediately turning us into contenders. It would also be a pleasant novelty to watch an Arsenal team fight for their lives on a regular basis.
Personally, I don’t see either of the above appointments happening. Both incredibly tricky to pull off just now, and I’m not sure our board have either the stones or the sophistication, but you never know.
I don’t buy all this “we can just hire a nobody like we did way back when” malarkey. The game has moved on immeasurably since then, and there are very few areas where a decent manager can ply their trade without coming to wider attention – the Twitter scouts are relentless. I’d say the closest we could get to a left-field pick these days would be someone like Unai Emery, whose Sevilla side sit 7th in La Liga, but who are back to back holders of the Europa League and in the semis looking for a hat trick. No idea if he’d work at Arsenal, but he’s progressive and has done good things with a relatively small club.
My own instinct is that Arsene will stay 2-3 more years, and will be replaced by Carlo Ancelotti when he departs Bayern, with the intention of avoiding a rocky handover. I think the younger, “Project” manager will come after that.
Beyond all of the above, only one word for yesterday’s performance: ugh. The season cannot end soon enough.
COYG
Matt- Why are fans acting like we have been winning the PL for the past 10 years. All a new manager has to do is been in the top 4 and he would have matched Wenger’s target of top four. Its not Manu, where Fergie won like 13 Titles/ 2 CL/ FA CUPS/ LEAGUE CUPS. Arsene won 3 PL and 6 FA cups ( now I will say that is an achievement) have to give him credit for those cups. I think we can get a manager that can at least win something if given 20 years to do it like Wenger has been given. Like most fans, I really appreciate his part in the history of our club, its just time to go. STOP BEEN SCARED ARSENAL FANS. We will still have Arsenal football club when Arsene is gone.
” The slowest fullback in world football” ?
Is Oleg coming back?
UTA.
The last line sums it all up in the report. It is painful to see it end like this. Wait , will the reign end. Will the great man be asked to leave? Will he take the high moral ground and leave and accept he just cannot win it anymore? I do not think so he will leave before the next season. He wants a legacy of his and a legacy which ends on a high than a low. For the same reason i wanted him to leave when we won the FA cup in 2014. It would have magical to see a great man end on a high but alas it did not.
I cannot help but say nothing affects me this season. Beating leicester gave me hope but then as ever we did not push on and now are in real danger of losing out even on top four. Does it matter the top four is a different question but in the end it does, the club, the fans, the players need champions league.
Not to pick on players but Giroud and ramsey yesterday were appalling. That they continued so long was a mystery and honestly i dont know what should campbell do to play. Theo should be sold, he cannot play for us anymore.
No hope left, Leicester winning the league will kill me but spurs doing so may make me die instantly. So let the foxes win after all they have been the best team throughout the season.
Arseblog should rename his Arsecast Extra the Theo Walcott Hate Half Hour.
Funny how a bloke who never starts and gets five minutes here and there (93 minutes football in the last seven matches) takes all the brickbats for us being shit and never scoring. Campbell would have been more likely to score? The same Campbell who has three goals in twenty nine matches this season?
Ah well, opinions blah blah..
My error. Campbell has a huge four goals, one was in the league cup.
Fuck’s sake, FA Cup.
Oh well, it’s fucking Monday and I’m bored.
I’ve defended Theo Walcott in here before, but I hope to never see him in an Arsenal shirt again.
Hurdling Kaboul’s non-challenge yesterday was the absolute final straw.
Yep, it was really really poor but he’s not the first player to have done it this season and worse things happened in that game.
I too think he is finished here, and the last ten years have been a waste of time for him and us.
But you could say that about a few players as well (not the ten years bit but a waste of time bit)
Cynic
I take your general point but Ozil is the fastest passer in the team and some of his work is ultra- quick . He also creates more chances than anyone in this league . Ramsey is another matter.My car stands ready to get him to the airport if Barca tender a silly fee . He will join the long list of our players who stuffed up at the Nou Camp.
So, clearout time.
Ospina
Debuchy (gone anyway)
Chambers
Gabriel
One of Mert and Kos (that ducked header yesterday was worse than Theo’s chickening out, and I just don’t think Kos is that good. Sorry folks)
Rosicky
Arteta
Flamini
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Walcott
Campbell
Giroud
Plus sundry loanees and assorted ne’er do wells.
Quite a list of dead wood.
Cynic- I probably will keep Chambers, after all we paid 16million for him. Money that could have been added and bought someone in a position that we really needed. I will keep Gabriel and Campbell. The rest can go.
And so the predictable weekly Theo bashing continues after yet another poor performance by the team….! Incredible!
I personally stopped critically judging any of the current players, and those that were brought and sold during Arsene Wenger’s tenure over the past decade, until I see them have a chance under a new head coach and man-manager. I personally cannot say that any of these lads are “shit” with any consistency until they have been managed by a new boss. You’re only ever as good as the one leading and motivating you if you can’t do it yourself? Look at Eden Hazard and the Chavs this season! Is he, and they, now shit all of a sudden after being player of the year last year? Yes he’s a cunt and they’re all cunts but I don’t quite think that they’ve become shit footballers in just one season from being the Champions the season before! Go easy on Theo, OG, et al until we’ve really seen what they can do under a new head coach and manager of our club.
Out of that list id personally keep Mert, Kos, Chambers, Ox and Campbell and Ospina but I’d imagine he wants to be a first choice somewhere – That’s still 7 outs and if memory serves Wenger once said anymore than 5 ins or outs in a summer is to many for cohesion so I’d imagine a few lame ducks will still be here from that list, All pre mentioned are Squad players at best tho and only Kos I’d class as starting material so any which way you look at it its a massive summer – How many times has that been said in the past 5 years only for history to repeat itself.
Dapper Dan C – It is odd that some of the vocal Theo bashers (and not just Theo) will fight tooth and nail to keep a failing manager after 12 years of shite, when they’re so keen to ship out players.
If you look at Theo’s season it has been far below what is required, but look at the context – like scoring two goals in the Cup, which should have boosted him and kick started his season at just the right time for us… only to get dropped for the next game. Said it didn’t make sense at the time, it still makes none now.
And not to make this just about him… although I don’t rate Campbell he’s been treated like a cunt and who knows, perhaps the current flavour of the month Iwobi will be out on his ear as well shortly.
It all feels very fickle, the team selection.
That’s an insightful post, Dapper Dan.
In my view:
Selling Ospina would be foolish. Selling Kos suicidal.
Keep: Gabriel, Chambers they both show flashes of talent, and are strong players and good on the ball. I like Gabriel’s nasty streak.
OG divides opinion and I’ll leave it at that. (While he is not a goal machine, I struggle with the idea of selling our top scorer two seasons running just because. It is certainly true that we need an out-and-out striker.)
Campbell is a head scratcher. (Though, he works hard, can kinda finish, moves off the ball, and will get back and press.)
Yep, Debuchy is already gone. (So, bringing back Crpl. Jenks. Unless we think HB will never be injured. This is AFC, afterall, and we do NOT get player injuries.)
I’ve nearly given up on Theo. The Ox needs to go.
Arteta and Flamini must go. Same for TR7, and I say that with a heavy heart. Still, he is/was a true footballer and indeed The Little Mozart in his pomp.
BUT: there are still matches left that need winning.
Players get credit when they do well, and criticism when they do badly. Same as the manager.
If someone had run in here after the cup final last year and given it “stop giving credit to Alexis, he’s only as good as the manager makes him” or before Xmas “Ozil is on to break a league assists record – all credit goes to Arsene”, they’d have been laughed at – and rightly so. You can’t have it both ways.
Thinking the manager has had a stinking season and Theo Walcott should be booted out of the squad this summer are not mutually exclusive positions.
And Hazard went from player of the season to shite under the same manager.
It is the view that we cannot dispense with a failing manager, who has a long record of failing, and at the same time wanting to sell players because “they’re crap” that is the oddity. For me.
There is a lack of realism running through this site at the moment. It is impossible to kick out ten players in one summer and replace them with upgrades. We will replace Flamini, Arteta,and Rosicky and in fact have already done so with Elneny and Iwobi. So we will probably buy one more midfielder. We may look to move on Walcott the Ox or Gibbs if we can get decent money for them and suitable replacements.
Two points worth making are that Leicester will probably win the league having spent peanuts. They have rightly been praised and yet everyone here wants to see us blow 100 million buying new players. I prefer the Leicester way. I don’t want a load of old has-beens who cost 40 million pounds each. Spurs too have prospered recently from astute buys and promoting from within. My second point is that most users of this site and many pundits and reporters were predicting a very good season for Arsenal based on the fact that we finished last season so strongly and had a strong squad. The same was said in December. It has been a very disappointing second half to the season and I can’t wait for it to end, but I do believe we will come back strongly next season. What we will need to learn is how we can break down the ten man defences we so often face at home and even away from home. Football in England has become attritional and quite boring this year in particular. I believe we need to raise the tempo and have one or two players who can force errors or beat people through a bit of individual football wizardry. i would definitely keep AW for one more season. I can’t see anyone better out there.
N7 Gooner,
Your Hazard-Mourinho reference only goes to provide more of a confirmation of the integral importance of a consistently motivational Head-Coach and Man-Manager on a player’s, and squad’s, performances. It doesn’t support Arsene Wenger’s groundhog way of doing things.
I’m now of the opinion that given the same current squad of players, a tactically compentent Head Coach and Man-Manager would get at least the same level of performance out of these players as Arsene Wenger has been doing over the past decade. Of course this is just my personal opinion and you don’t ever have to agree with it nor that of many other “we now need change” thinking season-ticket holders and Gooners on planet Earth!
Up the Arse!
@Cynic
Theo Walcott is most certainly crap. I think if there’s one thing our much divided support can get together, share a beer and agree on, it’s probably that.
I suggest we celebrate consensus where we find it.
@devon stu
Completely agree re: the impracticality of too much squad change in a single summer.
@Dan
Well, I do hope you’re correct. Because one way or another we’ll be finding out soon enough.
Don’t follow you at all on Hazard, but if you’re saying managers should motivate players, and that ours don’t currently look particularly motivated then, unfortunately, it would be hard to disagree.
devon stu,
Would say; Higuain, Benzema, Varane, Isco, or any other “Top Quality” player come to a club where their ageing Manager has only one more “make or break” season left on his contract to prove to the ever growing discontented fans, that he deserves an extension to his aforesaid ending contract? If I was a Top Quality or World Class player, I certainly would think twice unless you were going to be paying me £250,000+ a week on a 4 year contract; which will never ever happen under Arsene Wenger.
Fact: Established World class players always like to know that they are going to be moving to a club which is moving upwards with ambition and/or challenges unquestionably year-in-year-out in all the big competitions it enters and he’s going to play in. He’s good enough to demand that from the Head Coach and the other players in the squad.
N7 @88,
Yes we will see soon enough, and there really isn’t as much to fear as some Gooners are expressing. It is inevitable that Arsene must leave sometime, and that time is getting quite near now.
COYBG!
Arsenal FC will endure without Arsene FC! We’ve done it before when a legendary Manager and Players have left, and we will continue to do so again!
Got a feeling we will see 3 ins who will be considered as first 11, Centre Mid, A Winger and Front man and then a few bodies to fill the gaps in the squad a new Number 2 and probs a young fullback, Would it be enough probably not but if they are of required standard at least some hope and interest would be restored !
I know he hasn’t spent on the Abramovich/Sheik Mansour level, but Leicester’s billionaire owner, Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha has still pumped some £170 million into the club, including converting £103 million of the club’s debt into equity. While Leicester certainly haven’t been buying “old has-beens who cost 40 million pounds each”, they have been spending: £55 million over the past two seasons — and the wage bill has been shooting up, too. When they got promotion from the Championship two seasons back they made a bigger loss than any Premiership club except for Manchester City and Fulham (which is what has brought the Financial Fair Play scrutiny upon them). So they are not quite the paupers they are always portrayed to be.
Cynic@76: Even one signing a window seems to defeat us. No way we could replace the dozen you’d clear out.
Also, why do we say ‘move on’, as in We may look to move on Walcott, the Ox or Gibbs when we mean ‘flog off’?
I really don’t want the likes of Higuain, Ibrahimovic, Benzema, etc, too old, slow and expensive.If we buy a striker, he must have pace and be tough enough for the EPL. I wish we had our own Rashford or Lingaard to be honest.
As for AW, this is the first season he has not met or surpassed expectations, in my opinion and therefore deserves to see out his contract. The key weeks this season were back in October and November when we lost Theo and the Ox against Sheffield Wednesday, then Arteta and Coquelin against WBA and then Sanchez and Cazorla against Norwich, all within about three weeks and at a time when we are already without Willsher, Welbeck and Rosicky. Not excuses but reasons to some extent. Spurs and Spurs have had very few injuries and Leicester have had 10 penalties?!
Matt@61: Vincenzo Montella at Fiorentina, Marcelo Gallardo
at River Plate, Markus Weinzierl at Augsburg or Unai Emery at Sevilla.
I’m not saying we will or should move on all of them, just that I wouldn’t exactly cry to see any of them leave.
But then I wouldn’t be heartbroken if Ozil was binned either, so… I think the only outfield player I’d be genuinely gutted to see leave is Monreal. Bellerin as well.
The most important decision to be made this summer is not just buying top or average players. We need a new coach. How can you go on a spending spree, when your coach only has one year left. That has to be sorted out before anything. Knowing this useless board, they might sign Wenger to an extension, and he will accept it too. If he loves this club like he says he does, he needs to call it a day. He could/should/might have won the PL this season, but him and his players fucked it up. What could he possibly offer this club next season? PL title? you are having a laugh.
Good list, NBN.
“I would love Stojkovic to be my successor, there are a hundred reasons for that. Our ideas are the same and we both strive for perfect football. I knew he was going to have teams playing attacking football with many passes. He has done that, showing he will be a great coach. I told him that if he could transmit his football imagination to his players he would fly high. Dragan comes to London at least once a year”, Wenger confirmed, “We meet up, chat and try to outsmart each other.”
There really has to be some realism in planning for next season. We can’t and won’t jettison half the squad and don’t need to. Let’s look at it in a positive way.
Let’s list players of high quality we want to keep.This will include squad depths eg, Mertesacker will be invaluable next year as back- up.
Cech and Ospina/ Szczesny , I hear Viviano may return
Bellerin, Jenkinson, Chambers, Monreal , Gibbs- if Gibbs goes we.need a back- up LB
Koscielny, Gabriel, Mertesacker, – we need a top- quality CB
Elneny, Coquelin, Wilshere, Cazorla, Ozil, we need a top- quality box to box midfielder
Campbell, Iwobi, Gnabry, Reine Adelaide, Sanchez, Ox- that’s a lot of quality out wide
Welbeck- Akpom may return but I think regular football would help him.We might need two strikers- a big target man and a predator
By my estimation we can lose
Arteta, Rosicky, Flamini- all fringe players
Walcott, Giroud, Gibbs, Ramsey
That list of expendables might bring in – -£80 million possibly more
We need probably four top replacements and one or two back- up replacements. Very feasible and much more realistic
Midfield- Looks like Xhaka
Two forward players – maybe
@Ned/95: Interesting list, I agree that these up and coming managers are the right target group although I don’t know anything about Gallardo.
Pocchetino out!
Leicester just win next week and let’s wrap up this season once and for all. As the great Arsenal battle for the top four.
Scenes at the Shit Lane:):)
Could St Totteringham’s day still be on after all??? Hahahaha! The LWCs never fail to add much needed “comedy value!”
Up the Arse!
Schadenfreude is just about all that’s left.
But it still feels great when it involves them.
They’ve lost the title (not yet but close to) because od Tony Penis. A loss and a draw with WBA.
If I am Kroenke I would consider Penis as a Wenger replacement:) He would not be on any hipsters list as a posible choice, but I would get him. His team’s are always well organized and he has clear idea what he wants from every player on the pitch.
And on top of that he got 4 points from Tots this season, the most of any other manager in the PL. Would sign him only because of that.
My vote goes for Penis!
Apologies for the typos and grammatical errors gents. To many even for my standards.
He’s not a penis Lurky- he’s a prick
You are having a laugh right ??? in the spirit of jubilation over the Totts demise. If we are looking at Pulis as a replacement for Wenger the world has gone f…ing mad?
Schadenfreude is just about all that’s left.
Steffenfreund would be worse
West Brom 🙂
Cynic @110,
Heh 🙂
Jolly old points dropped by Sp**s just when their “title challenge” was supposed to take off. Dodo birds.
Spurs. Soft underbelly…. Flacid maybe?
Looking forward to Leicester clinching the title at the theater of dreams…
With a miserable recent record, club stale, no sign of change you can still only get 6/1 best price on Arsenal to win the league next year. I’d have us out at 10s or 12s, like Liverpool are.
There’s no value in 6/1 and precious few takers I shouldn’t wonder.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
You can always rely on the neighbours to cheer us up.
COYG
Matt@101: Gallardo wins things. So may not be a fit. 🙂
Ex-Argentina international: 13 goals in 44 matches. His teams play attacking football. But he is short (5’5″), if that matters.
Wolfsburg dump TGSTEL.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36129667
@Ned: Am realist about winning things:
– the owner states publicly he does not care
– CEO states we’ve maximized our commercial revenue while it’s always been severely lagging behind our main competitors and still is
– club hoarding money
– TV money flooding all clubs, leveling the competition
– London rivals moving to bigger stadiums
In the end there are two winners per season (title and FA cup) with 8-10 clubs having a real opportunity to win silverware. If we win something every 2-3 years it’ll be a success in my book.
As long as the manager tries to play attractive attacking football, I’ll be hooked. So Gallardo looks like a proper prospect indeed 😉
It’s not Tuchel we need, Lurky it’s a couple of players from his team – Reus and Hummels of course.
If and when AW leaves (hopefully in my lifetime), SSY, I wouldn’t trust him to choose his successor. But neither would I trust the board! We will be living in interesting times.
Turfing out the dead wood sounds like a good idea, Cynic, but given we are unlikely to afford more than two or three class inward transfers that is about the number who should go.
As for Theo the whipping boy, I’d still like to see him given a decent run where he belongs, right wing, with instructions to worry about scoring and leave defending to defenders. Ten minute cameos at the end of games must be soul-destroying.
What we need most of all is someone who can put the ball in the net. If we’d won our 10 draws, the resultant 20 additional points would have made the table look very different, and the mood a lot brighter.
@NBN
I was discussing the goals thing yesterday and spotted the following:
In all but two of the last 15 seasons, the champions have had a striker who scored 20 league goals or more. The exceptions are 2009, when no player scored 20 league goals, and 2005, when Chelsea had an utterly extraordinary defensive record.
First job, then – find a striker who can give us 20 league goals.
N7 – Our lack of a top striker has been the most significant factor in our failures this season. Stats previously provided by our erstwhile colleagues show an alarmingly low conversion rate. We have the best assist player in the league and with a top CF we would have converted losses into draws and draws into wins. Our league position would have been unassailable!
Arsene couldn’t find such a player last summer and this has been discussed ad infinitum in this bar. Who we could / should have signed or even attempted. No one knows how hard he tried but for sure this above all else is the priority for next season.
Oh, and the spuds – hahahahaha. Thank god their gift to cheer us up remains unfettered:-)
123 @N7
Absolutely my observation as well.. top goalscorer needed and especially since we have Ozil who shall provide the assists!
Giroud, whilst a team player doesn’t make the cut…
Let’s see if Arsene wiil make that decision next season or will he be stubborn and stick with the same old.
Hope Alexis and Ozil extend their stay too…!
BB
Not being privy to the inner thoughts of either Mesut or Alexis,i would hazard they will be 2 very interested observers in the Club’s transfer policy in the coming summer.
If they are desperate to win the big Trophies as i hope they are,then only the clear out of the plethora of average players we have on our books,and the arrival of some seriously driven, self motivating,never say die,uncompromising quality players is going to satisfy them.
Otherwise i cannot see them extending their contracts anytime soon.
I suspect we’ll at least try for a striker. We went for Suarez two seasons ago, and it seems to me fairly clear that something went on with Benzema last year.
The question is whether we can actually close out these deals. It won’t be easy, as there are too few quality strikers to go round these days, but we need to find one from somewhere.
Last summer I was hoping we’d try for Dybala. He’s not an out and out striker, but he’s absolutely torn up Serie A since moving to Juve, and he has bags of potential. He’ll end up in a proper league soon enough.
I foresee another summer going after the troubled Benzema. Lukaku remains my preference if the price is right, despite his “efforts” in the semi the other day.
I think it would really change the tone to kick off next season with a bit of extra quality at centre forward.
@Goonersince54
I do believe a clear out is indeed on the cards… Arteta, Flamini, Rosicky to name a few can’t have many years left…and if we scrutinize closer even Per and Santi(who was soooo missed this season) cannot have too long left.
Am more concerned with who Arsene buys or promotes.
And I hope he doesn’t keep Giroud… I do remember an interview which he said something like he still belived in Giroud(then) as he didn’t buy anyone new. Not too sure if it was for Giroud’s benefit or maybe there wasn’t anyone available at the time.
As for Ozil and Alexis… I think a big part of why they came here is because of Arsene.. at least we know that Alexis turned down Pool who made a better offer(if you would believe the media).
Whether or not they still want to stay is anyone’s guess… much as you said depends on what Arsene does next season.
What is becoming very apparent and evident is that if we carry on the same way, I’d wager even 4th will be a big ask as there are so many more teams with the money and will to spend and target Europe.
As always am hoping for the best.
😀
I see the black bin bags are out again ….
http://www.onlinegooner.com/article.php?section=exclusive&id=3439#.Vx9MivkrK2x
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades
N7G@123: To your point, if Ollie G or Alexis had scored most of the goals to have won those 10 draws, one of them would be on 20+ goals for the season.
On the ‘clear-out’:
Rosicky (35), Arteta (34) and Flamini (32) all out of contract in June.
Mertesacker (31) Kos (30), Gnabry (20) and Santi (31) all out of contract in June 2017 (as is AW).
Corporal Jenks (24), Macey (21), Ozil (27), Gibbs (26), Alexis (27), Wilshere (24), Campbell (23), the Ox (23) Giroud (29) and Ramsey (25) all out of contract in June 2018.
My guess is the first three won’t be offered new contracts (though Arteta might join, or prepare to join the coaching staff. The second group will be offered one- or two year extensions (Gnabry sold or a long-term deal) and the third group will sit tight until the manager situation is sorted out, but with any for which a silly price is offered being ‘moved on’/flogged off.
I have been wary of wanting the likes of Walcott and the Ox to be sold lest they manage to perform superbly elsewhere. As far as Walcott is concerned, however, I think we have seen the best of him, especially as his various injuries have slowed him down slightly. If the Ox is fully fit, I think he can still do a decent job for us, bearing in mind all players need time on the pitch. Maybe though, Wenger has lost a little faith in both of them.
That said, we all know the team needs major surgery this summer, with a whole lot of deadwood ripe for the chop. The problem is that some of the managers quotes intimate he is preparing us for another summer if inaction in the transfer market. When he says that none of the other top PL teams have spent big recently, he conveniently forgets to mention that that will all change, with City and the Chavs sporting shiny new managers, and with even United supposedly set to spend £200-300 m, depending who’s in charge by August.
We all know that Wenger has a job for life, and that Kroenke likes the way the manager doesn’t spend his money, but would that really change with another man in charge of team affairs. You only have to look at the tragedy that is Villa to see what can happen if an owner gets tired of spending millions to no effect. Who’s to say that if Arsenal were to begin costing Kroenke serious money, he might not go the same way as Randy Lerner.
After our recent toothless performances, surely Wenger knows we need greater firepower up front, even if the proven strikers we need will cost £60m apiece, and that’s just the start. Wenger seems to have an inferiority complex on Arsenal’s behalf, and won’t go head to head with the Chelseas and Cities of this world, merely saying we cannot compete, but surely we can, and must, if we wish to avoid slipping down the table.
I suspect that next season will be the most competitive ever, and I would like to see a new man in charge; Tuchel would be my choice, but any coach with a proven record of success at the top has to be an improvement. Let’s see who comes in this summer, and if we fans aren’t satisfied, we should give Wenger hell, if and when results start to disappoint.
Unfortunately, we’ve actually spent a packet in the past three years – more than Chelsea or Bayern Munich (net).
It’s what makes this season’s frustrations all the greater. This wasn’t some rag-tag bunch of Ligue 1 strugglers we’d had to string together on the cheap.
This political year in the United States some critical commentary seems desperately necessary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlzrNKN3rZI
My apologies if the video offends anyone.
Not really. 😉
Perseverance given its just rewards.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36138337
This wasn’t some rag-tag bunch of Ligue 1 strugglers we’d had to string together on the cheap.
The problem is that we’ve overpaid for players who are very ordinary and the ones who came reasonably priced (or even free) are similarly unblessed with talent required to win at the top level.
I don’t say they are bad players, some of them, but they’re not the top top quality we keep being told they are. If they were we wouldn’t be where we are now.
I mean spending £19m on Welbeck is ridiculous, not to mention the combined £26m on Chambers and Debuchy. It’s silly money for players of their ability, although you could argue that Debuchy’s fee was reasonable.
Further to @135 bt8
A damning video covering the tragedy and the mishandling and cover up by S. Yorkshire Police
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquiry-anatomy-of-a-disaster-video
In the richest league in the world and one that is going to see a massive rise in TV revenue next year the bulk of the money will end up in the pockets of agents and their clients.
This will fuel wage and fee inflation. In this respect I have sympathy for Wenger in that while he is criticised on this board for overpaying for the likes of Welbeck and Chambers , he is criticised for being too mean to clinch the Suarez deal and pulling out of numerous deals because his feeling is that players are overpriced. You can’t have it both ways.
Welbeck is a current England striker- he will probably go to the Euros with Kane ( £ 40 million) , Vardy( £ 25-30 million) and Rooney who even at his age would fetch £20 million in this market so the fee paid for him was reasonable in market terms , given his age. If we sell Theo we will probably get £25 million for a player, technically in his prime ( but we know different) .
As for Chambers it was a lot to pay for a 19 year- old with potential who still doesn’t have a clear position yet. Debuchy’s fee was spot- on for an experienced international that had displaced Sagna as France’s first choice .
I think the problem is that everyone knows Arsenal have a lot of money and they take the piss unless desperate to sell like Malaga were with Santi and Nacho. So finding a happy medium isn’t easy. Frankly I see it as Kroenke’s money and the more of it we spend of it the better, the toupeed git. ?
You can’t have it both ways.
You can expect your manager to be able to see the obvious quality of someone like Suarez compared to the lack of same in Welbeck though. You can expect your manager to make the deal happen for someone like Suarez instead of making a joke bid of a pound over the supposed buyout clause and then giving up.
And before anyone blames the club for that, you can’t on the one hand say that the manager makes all the decisions and on the other, blame other people if something is fucked up. It’s one or the other.
@Cynic & @ TTG, regardless of the type of players we buy ( world class, average class). The problem to me is not necessary the players. Its the boss, he is the only constant figure in the whole equation. You can buy all the world class players around, but as far as Wenger is still the coach its going to be the same result ( top four). Are these players really that bad when considering Leicester city or spurs players? its all about motivation and tactics.
@129Countryman100 Cheers for the heads op.
Fucking Hell, now those Red Action / Black Scarf cunts are gonna ruin my trip on Saturday. All I wanted to do was go to the game, have a few pints, and support my club, who I have followed since 1969. I want no part of a protest movement of any sort.
So those cunts are going to create a poisonous atmosphere where the ordinary supporter, such as myself, will be made to feel uncomfortable for not joining in their protest.
Or alternatively I’ll get so fucking wound up, I’ll do something that’ll get me banned anyway.
So apologies to the folk I was planning to meet, but I wont be there now. And maybe not again for a very long time, if ever.
Esso
Agree entirely with your sentiments. But they’re not keeping me out. I’m going. Fuck ’em.
I’m with you Esso and Countryman. My view is that where I sit no one among the regulars will support this. It would be very funny if an Ali- less and Dier- less Spuds lost to the Chavs and Sothampton and struggled against a desperate Newcastle and we finished second. It’s highly unlikely but it does show that even with three games to go we still can’t predict too much.
I heard two Totts on the way to the game last night and they were euphoric yet they still could finish below us. Yet we are developing mass protests . I don’t know what these guys would have done in 1966 in the last days of Billy Wright or 1995 when George Graham’s reign unraveled and we toyed with the prospect of relegation. We ‘invested’ in three desperation buys in Helder, Kiwomya and Hartson and we knock Danny Welbeck . Ye Gods!
Esso – Why let them ruin your day? Have a good time with people you want to be with, enjoy the game and fuck the rest of it. The rest of it is chaff, the good stuff will be worth it.
In the old days of Billy Wright they would have pulled their collar up above the rain coat, pulled their hat down over their eyes and smoked more fags. It was the days of real men though.
I always link memories of my early games at Highbury with the smell of cigars …..
Hamlets, Castellas or, if you were minted, King Eddy’s. The poor man’s Cubans.
I remember my cousin smoking the remains of his dad’s King Edward. He spent the next hour or so puking his internal organs out, as the strongest thing he’d ever smoked up to then was a cigarella.
Countryman – cigar smoke, you must have been in the posh seats, east stand upper 😉
Standing up at uncovered the clock end in the pouring rain is where the real men went ( aka stupid). I did protest outside the marble halls after a game when we all had enough of the Wright era. A possee of charging police horses soon sorted us out!
Esso, don’t let a gang of morons spoil you day out which you always thoroughly enjoy – both the footy & tolly. Not really sure anyway if the bin bag protest will have much impact on the day. No doubt sky / BT will highlight it however limited.
King Edward’s, Countryman? Imperials and Invincibles. Perfect for Highbury.
And Esso, what Uply said @149.
It looks as if Thierry Henry is to become assistant manager to Arsenal’s Under 18 team next season. A significant move?
Any Holics who love their football as passionately as i do,should read the online reports on the Hillsborough tragedy in the Guardian today.
58 children lost a Parent that awful day.
Read,and shake your head in disbelief as i did,at the cold,calculated and complete indifference shown by the majority of the South Yorkshire Police in the immediate aftermath, to the families who lost their loved ones.
Not to mention the scurrilous lies they perpetrated for years afterward to cover their own shameful arses.
Clive, absoutely disgraceful behaviour from start to finish by the police.
Reading that article brought tears to my eyes. RIP The 96.
Spot on, Cynic. If we’d had the balls to pursue Suarez with big money as Fergie or Moaninho would have in a similar situation things could have been mighty different today. A wimpy one dollar on the buy-out was weak at best, or AW at his worst. But then again, how many here were dead against having Biteyman anyway? Opinion on that was split down the middle from memory. What would it be now I wonder.
There’s absolutely no guarantee a great player will make a great manager, TTG. In fact onlyJohan Cruyff comes to mind. Much as I like to dream it’s possible TH14 will need to prove himself first.
Brian Clough, Pep Guardiola, Bobby Robson, Chris? None in Cruyff’s class as a player, though few were, but all top players and managers. But your general point is good. The very best managers usually had modest playing careers, eg, old Red Nose, Rinus Michels, Helenio Herrera and even AW.
And I should add Herbert Chapman to that list.
Point taken, Ned, Cruyff wasn’t alone. Lovely to think TH could prove as good cos I’ve a shrewd idea where he’d like to ply his new trade.
PS: You could also add AW to your #157 list! 😀
Oops, you had AW in your list. 🙁 scrub my last
Uply@154
Weep indeed my friend.
Just one example,
There was one man who went to the game with his 2 young daughters who were caught in the crush,and then pulled out on to the pitch.
One was unfortunately deceased and the other was being given mouth to mouth,he was running from one to the other crying,
” Please God,not both of them,they are all I’ve got. ”
Sadly they couldn’t revive her, so he did indeed lose them both.
Absolutely heartbreaking reading.
Murdoch is a vile piece of shit, always has been. It takes one to know one and MacKenzie made his employer proud.
Unfortunately him and the police higher-ups will escape with a wrist slap at worse.
Esso – if you pop in today… you should certainly go to the game, for a whole load of reasons you don’t need me to remind you of, but you should also bear in mind the apathy of the vast majority of the fan base. There have been planned protests before and fuck all happened. Did people walk out on 75 minutes last week, for example? You won’t see a sea of signs because there will be a reason for the apathetic not to bother. They’ll have left it on the table, or ran out of printer ink or some such.
Or maybe the fan base isn’t as bad as at some clubs and the overwhelming feeling is that although change is needed, there are right and wrong ways to express the viewpoint and holding up a bit of paper at a match and looking like a cunt is NOT one of them.
So go. Enjoy the day.
Clive,
I had meant to drop in somewhat earlier this week to compliment you on your analysis, observations and usual dollop of common sense in all the negative things we currently see being spouted given the clubs performance of late.
But if you don’t mind me saying, your post at 153 puts matters in real perspective.
Yesterday I found myself commuting over long distances and while I drove, the news of the findings of “unlawful death” for the Hillsborough victims broke over the radio airwaves in my country. I listened to Mark Lawrenson being interviewed and how poignantly he spoke about the families of the victims and the ensuing campaign that these people have been forced to go through for 27 years just to absolve the culpability and to vindicate the memories of their deceased from any alleged wrongdoing from a Police force who resolved to tell lies and point fingers rather than just admit, from the outset, that they got some decisions catastrophically wrong.
Of particular resonance, as a parent (by way of just one of the 96 examples), was the decision by the Police to test the blood alcohol levels of many of the deceased, including that of a 10 year old boy, in an attempt to smear the integrity and standing of these wonderful people.
I’ve always had a soft spot for the scousers. They’re tough working class people who love their football and the passion that emanates from the Kop is an absolute joy to behold. Anfield has always been my favourite fixture. What the Hillsborough families have endured is beyond all words. May they “never walk alone”.
Won’t bore you all with the details but have hardly been this season for a variety of personal and financial reasons – things have settled down now and with immaculate bad timing I was thinking of trying the TXE for a single this Saturday.
Whilst things at the club obviously need a huge kick up the backside I don’t particularly feel holding up a bit of paper is the best way to express that, and dont want want to get in a row about not doing so…with this in mind are their certain areas to avoid on Saturday ?
Usually a West or North upper man.
You could always take your own sign that says “Anybody holding up a sign during the game is a twat”
Oh hang on…
@ Clive
Very well said.
I have to confess to having shed more than one tear over David Conn’s report into the findings of the Hillsborough inquest. The detail of the day is utterly stomach churning, not just to those of us who attended football matches in the 80s, or have kids of our own, but to anyone with a shred of basic humanity.
The concerted effort by the establishment to smear the dead is a scandal of the highest order, and the fact that it has taken 27 years to record even yesterday’s victory is not “justice”, as has been said elsewhere.
It should not have taken a quarter of a century for the truth to emerge, and nor should those responsible have been allowed to escape punishment, retire early and collect their pensions in full. I genuinely don’t know what makes me more sick; the utter callousness of the authorities on the day, the subsequent police cover up or the disgusting smears printed merrily by the press.
Nothing but respect and admiration for the Hillsborough families, who would not be deterred or fobbed off. Nothing but contempt for the likes of Bernard Ingham, Kelvin Mackenzie, Boris Johnson, Simon Heffer and all those others who profaned the dead and perpetuated the lies.
Well said, N7,
and Clive, on all points.
Esso,
Don’t let them ruin your day, mate.
I won’t be holding up any silly posters and anyone who wants to srgue about it is welcome. Some of us need to be there to support the team in the right way – regardless of what we think about matters behind the scenes.
The West Brom “walk out” didn’t happen and this stupid idea will probably amount to the same.
@ Esso
What others have said. Don’t let the bastards grind you down.
Now here’s a protest…
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/marseille-fans-mock-players-benny-hill-theme-tune?CMP=fb_a-football_b-gdnfootball
One of my friends survived the crush in the Leppings Lane End but the trauma of that day still haunts him. It is a deeply regrettable episode in English journalistic and policing history. There was perfidy, deep collusion and an easy, lazy, despicable get out in blaming drunken Scousers.
God help us if something like that happened today and justice was done in 2043.
Justice is vitally important but needs swifter delivery. I don’t think this will be glossed over but retribution for the dishonesty and incompetence of those in charge that day is much harder to deliver so long after the event. But delivered it must be.
New Day
In the Upper Tier Block 5 North End we are a reasonable bunch although some are inclined to leave early- even if we are beating Bayern other Barcelona with five minutes to go.
I doubt there will be much of a protest there
I am away from north london to comment on the protests but honestly protesting during a game is a farce. You come there to support the team or prove a point? What i get as an argument is we need to make our voices heard when the whole fraternity is watching. What loads of toss, so you want to prove a point and you embarrass your club for it? . Protest outside the stadium before the game, after the game or any other time but not during the game. The point is when you are a supporter, the primary objective is to will the team on to win not say oh the manager is past his due date, the board sits on money etc. Albeit valid, does it make any sense you say so during a game where only winning the football match matters.
Saw the real city game yesterday and it still makes me cringe that we did not go for bale and believed in theo. He may not have had a great game yesterday but boy he is a proper winger in more ways than one. We wont get him but any chance of greizmann?? hahha i know no chance.
The season is a goner. Yet if we win the last 3 games it may look a bit better, will we, i dont think so. 4th it is again.
Vinay
If we win our last three games we will be second or third.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@Cynic and all the kind folk with wise words.
Thanks mucho! I was re-evaluating the decision anyway, as when I broached the subject with Esso Jnr (aged 12), his reaction was immediate and vehement – “Dad! Don’t let a bunch of retards tell you what to do. And anyway I’ll be with you. No one is going to say anything to us.’
So looks like I’ll have to go then, innit.
Top man Esso. I’ll be thinking of you there with your son when I’m there with mine.