Oziliant Last Gasp Comeback By The Arsenal
Nov 1st, 2016 by 'holic
Fluorescently attired Arsenal had the first attempts on goal as they made a misleadingly comfortable start in Sofia. Aaron Ramsey’s acrobatic effort was off-target, then in the eighth minute a rapid counter-attack by the Gunners ended when Mesut Ozil shot tamely straight at goalkeeper, Borjan.
There followed a disastrous three minutes. Ludogoretz were presented with the lead when Granit Xhaka was harshly penalised for handball and the free-kick was clipped home by Cafu while defenders and goalkeeper left it to each other to deal with the ball in.
Ludogorets 1-0 Arsenal
The lead was doubled when Cafu easily beat Kieran Gibbs and crossed for the unmarked Keseru to finish. Two down after quarter of an hour, the Arsenal needed a response.
Ludogorets 2-0 Arsenal
Before twenty minutes were up the Gunners were thrown a lifeline when Ozil cut a ball back from the byline and Granit Xhaka was in the right place at the right time to sweep the ball home. The response, delivered.
Ludogorets 2-1 Arsenal
A very open game was developing and Alexis might have regretted not crossing to Ramsey when blazing a wild effort over the bar. When Minev went through the back of the Chilean’s legs he was rightly shown the first yellow card of the evening.
Ozil was denied the equaliser when his wonderful volley was blocked by the last defender, but it was just a temporary reprieve. Ramsey crossed to the near post from the right flank and Olivier Giroud soared above defender and goalkeeper to head the Gunners level.
Ludogorets 2-2 Arsenal
The opening stages of the second-half saw both defences looking more organised. It was something of a surprise that Marcelinho wasn’t the recipient of the second card of the evening when he raked his studs down the back of Giroud’s ankle in a midfield tussle.
Francis Coquelin did receive the yellow card when he showed dissent after being penalised for another harsh looking handball award. Another dubious handball, this time by Palomino, presented Alexis with an opportunity but the defensive wall stood firm.
A break followed from which Ospina was able to gather in a Wanderson cross at the second attempt. The same two did battle again and once more the Columbian goalkeeper won the duel.
Xhaka was predictably next in the referee’s notebook for a badly timed challenge in the Ludogorets half. The wonderfully open first half had turned into a war of attrition in the second. Jenkinson saw our third yellow for hauling down Wanderson.
Xhaka’s wonderful slide-rule of a pass put Alexis clean through but the little striker’s first touch unusually let him down and the chance was gone. Cue the introduction of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain for Ramsey. The fresh legs looked needed.
Keseru departed to be substituted by Misidjan, It gave the home side a lift but the Gunners defence stood firm. On the counter Ozil fashioned an opportunity for the Ox but he sidefooted wide of the target. Xhaka was replaced by Mohamed Elneny.
With three minutes of the ninety remaining the comeback was complete when Elneny’s first touch sent Ozil scampering through on goal. The German magician sat the goalkeeper and two defenders on their bottoms and finished magnificently.
Ludogorets 2-3 Arsenal
In the second of three added minutes we scrambled a Ludogorets corner to safety and the last chance was gone. An incredible match ended with the visitors celebrating a fantastic comeback with the travelling faithful.
The ‘Jonah’ month has started with us sealing a place in the last sixteen of the Champions League. Now to clinch top place in the group?
127 Responses to “Oziliant Last Gasp Comeback By The Arsenal”
fucking PSG score in the 90th to win 2-1.
Bollocks
You may want to qualify that?
No?
Dear Chris
We’ve got Ozil
Mesut Ozil
I just don’t think you understand
He’s Arsene Wenger’s man
He’s better than Zidane
We’ve got Mesut Ozil
*counts out on fingers*
Yeah, you’re right. Bollocks
Nice report Guv’nor and congrats on first place Clive.
I followed the game via the previous bar and the .con homepage – I’ve given up watching streams after a couple of disastrous experiences a couple of seasons back. Reminder to all, a win is a win is a win. Those of us who remember following the Arse for more than 20 years [*] will not need to be reminded of that.
Anyone remember the Shaktar Donetsk game at Highbury ten-odd years ago?
Before the game, I found an interesting factoid on Arsenal.com – It appears that the only time we won the Group stage matchday 3-4 double header was against Sparta Prague in 2005. We had rather a good run in the champions league that year.
So, another hurdle successfully passed. That‘s what counts. Bring on the tinies.
COYG
[*] I.e. since before Arsène Wenger was appointed as manager.
Play the second team in the next CL game…!
We can afford to rest some of them now..
Ozil and Alexis.. extend their contracts please!
Yessssssssssssh.. what a goal.. Ozil sits down both defenders and has their goalie crawling …and buries it in the net!
😀
For those who haven’t seen Ozil’s goal
https://streamable.com/vl8v
Cheers H! Never in doubt. Wotcher and tara Pip
On the same day that Jose Mourinho is charged with misconduct by the FA. *Lights cigar*
Another quick report Holic now to read it! 🙂
I don’t care if this was an ugly win we gave them a chance they took it we regrouped and won the game!
Ozil still had shit loads to do for that goal and this is exactly why he’s a special talent!
Nice one, ‘Holic. You get faster and faster.
As I said in the last drinks, it was an ugly win. But a win nonetheless.
As I watched Mesut do that the words of the Away Boyz’s song about DB10 were playing in my head
He was class
A sublime pass
Another fullback on his arse ……
That my friends was utter, utter (cue French accent) Quality.
Didn’t see the game so this excellent report was much appreciated. Thanks too to Cynic for the video of Ozil’s goal. Onward to win the group.
Guv’nor. I consider it rude to criticise a host for his wallpaper, but may I, with the utmost respect, humbly ask you please to cut back, and if possible eliminate, the negative comments about November?
Most of us can remember, only too clearly, the way some previous seasons have been come off the tracks this month. Many have forgotten how well the team has managed to recover, and almost all of us must have speculated on how history might be different if we could go through a season without a bad month. (It’s probably true for other clubs as well.)
I fear that you risk spreading alarm and despondency amongst the local drinking community.
COYG
PS Sad to hear about Mourinho. Not.
I’ve yet to see the match and followed it during dinner by text. At 2-0 one of my companions said ‘ we all know Arsenal are going to win 3-2’.
I hoped for the turnaround but actually achieving it is another thing. I look forward to watching it when I return home to Fortress TTG this evening.
My worry was the potential looseness that might come with a right flank of The Corporal and Ramsey. Was that the problem early on?
My thanks, too, to Cynic@7 for the link to Özil’s goal. I have to agree wholeheartedly with the thrust of countryman100’s drink @12. I watched it over and over again as I tried to recall an instance when the sublime Dennis chipped the keeper before leaving two defenders on their Arses. Briliant, brilliant stuff.
TTG.
Don’t worry
Be happy
Watch Mesut’s goal 20 times
i’ll watch the whole thing tonight, but i did go to arsenalist and watch ozil’s goal. what a thing of beauty. top, top qualité.
thanks, in the last bar, atg for the link to the stream. i gave up after getting a bizzillion popups. zubrowka on the bar for you. esso, i hope you were able to watch!
whew!
Thanks Cynic. That goal is a work of serious genius. Berkampesque in its combination of guile, skill and precision
Unbeaten in November
good call countryman. i just watched it a few more times.
excepting the run from deep, it reminds me more of thierry vs. the totts that led to “the slide”. but dennis certainly could have pulled it off.
A very fussy Ref completely spoilt the flow of the game. We didn’t help ourselves, where were the defenders for the Ludogorets’ goals? After we pulled ourselves together we played some decent stuff in the first half in spite of Ozil being below par and some sloppy passing.
We fought our way back with two goals to go in all square at half time and I expected us to go on in the second half and win the game handsomely.
We struggled to get going after the interval and we were under pressure a number of times, I was fearing the worse with yellow cards handed out to Jenks, Granit and Le Coq. But when it came to the crunch that man Ozil, who had not impressed me, scored the most amazing goal and all Gooners breathed a sigh of relief.
I didn’t enjoy watching this game one little bit, the back 5 on show tonight were a worry and I can only hope Hector is OK for Sunday.
COYRs
…and Cynic’s link is no longer valid. Fortunately, arsenalist has a clip (at least for now).
Özil’s goal combined the best of Dennis AND Sir Bob.
Wonderful goal. Wonderful player.
Absolutely vital to our chances of winning the group.
Was that goal big enough for, er, …….
Where’s Chris ? ?
Speedy Goonzalez strikes again.
Ballsy performance by the boys. The full backs are both good back-ups but back-ups they definitely are. A bit of rust on Rambo and OG but there was enough class to shine through and the heads never dropped.
Now to read the Guvna’s view.
Onwards.
…and what a winner that was.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet
Sorry, Holic, how rude
Thanks for the write up.
David Lloyd got their act together tonight and boy, did I have a big screen to watch it on.
Never beat the stadium view though.
We’ve got Özil,
Mesut Özil…….
One footed player, that Ozil. If he had a right foot he’d be decent
😉
It’s very rare to see such poise in a player – but Ozil has it in spades.
A great confidence boost too for the weekend.
Thanks again H for the report.
Nice one Guvna. Ardbeg on the bar. Slà inte.
Evening Trev, all good I hope.
Some top ‘holics and Plymouth’s finest in I see. Lovely to see you all.
Something I missed in the report but mentioned on Twitter was Giroud’s key part in the winning goal, chasing back into his own half to win the ball for Elneny to spring Mesut. Ver impressive bit of selfless teamwork.
Evening bath,
Not too bad, Sir.
And yourself, I hope.
Our Fishgod
Who art 11
Hallowed be thy game
Thy goals have come
Thy will be done
At the Emirates
As it is in Ludogrets
Give Giroud crosses
To his head
Forgive us our missed passes
As we forgive those who miss passes against us
Lead us not into temptation
But deliver us from November
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory
Now and forever
YaGunnersYa
WHAT
A
GREAT
GOAL
SUBLIME !
I’m here, Trev. Things to do before I could get to the party.
Credit where it’s due, that was easily the best thing I’ve seen Özil do in Arsenal fluoro, and I intended saying it was something God would have been proud of, but you beat me to it, Pangloss.
Terrific strike from Mesut in the first half too, and I’m delighted to see him finally scoring goals which have been all too few in previous seasons.
Congrats also to OG, finally getting to start where he plays best and looking threatening, if a bit rusty, much of the time … almost as rusty as Rambo who also got the start I suggested possible. But not as effective as Ollie and he should have been replaced at around 60 minutes rather than AW’s ridiculously late subbing preference.
Interestingly OG has now scored five of Arsenal’s past eight away goals in the CL and it’s hard not to see him preferred to Alexis in future. Sanchez was his usual industrious self, but still seemed to be haranguing the ref more than he should be.
What we were really lacking of course was the Theo/Belle speed factor down the right, and Nacho’s defence. Our two FBs were liabilities all day.
That’s the other thing you get from OG, ‘holic, his defence is impeccable, especially in set pieces. You’re right about his contribution to our winner, a lovely piece of work.
Cheers H.
I didn’t see any of it so appreciate such a comprehensive report. It is a good thing to have a few setbacks during matches and find a way past them in the same match. That has to help build the confidence, the sense that we are never out of it. We will need that ability during the season. Calm seas do not make good sailors.
N7. That is golden. I love it!
I just managed to see some highlights…
That kit is bright.
I like Xhaka’s minimal celebration and going straight for the ball after his goal. Just getting straight on with the business of winning the match. One of the things that makes a top team is acting like one. Which means hard work and a faith in the fact that if you work your bums off then you will win. Good to see the others follow his cue too.
Ozil.
Oh what a great goal that was from Ozil!! Most players would have tried to score with a heavy dink over the keeper in the first go. But not this man. With no one in sight to assist – he decided to assist himself and do it the hard and sublime way.
If you love football, you love Mesut Ozil. Period.
‘desi’gner gooner: perhaps Ozil remembered what happened when he tried unsuccessfully to chip Pickford in the Sunderland game.
We’ve got Ozil, Mesut Ozil, I just don’t think you understand 😆 🙂
Only managed to see the highlights on my flat screen. How shit was Ozil???? What a waste of money. The sooner he goes, the better.
?
Good result and a great write up H.
I genuinely have only caught brief highlights so not much else to go on. I thought we were very sloppy for both goals. The first, Ospina has to dominate. The second was even worse. Gibbs is beaten far too easily but what is worse is that there are four back and not one bothers to pick up the one striker??? Very niaive. There was a similar situation in the second half when Ludo broke. We had five back to their four. All armed to rush to the ball leaving two unmarked?? Something better teams will not leave unpunished.
Goals and general spirit were excellent. Ozil’s finish for the winner was worth the entrance money alone. Truly world class from a world class player. If there are still some that don’t get it then all hope might have just been lost.
On to the weekend and some spud bashing.
3 scenarios for top spot
Beat the frogs and we finish top regardless of final game result,
Head to head the first criteria if finish on same points.
draw 0 – 0 and as long as we win last game will still finish top.
Draw 1 – 1 and it will come down to goal diff if we both win last game.
Drw 2-2 and we will finish runner up,as the frogs won’t drop points at home to Ludo..
I like Xhaka’s minimal celebration… – GSD #37
Me too. Goal celebrations are a bugbear of mine. You’d think the scorer has performed some kind of miracle which he clearly never expected and is unlikely to ever do again.
Much better, imo, to briefly acknowledge the scorer and whoever else contributed, and then get on with the game as if scoring is the most natural thing to do and you expect to repeat it often.
…except when you get a last minute winner like Mesut’s today. Then take all the time you want to roll around hugging everyone just to use up as much time as you can get away with.
For all the plaudits Giroud is getting, Sunday’s team picks itself if Cazorla and Walcott are fit. They come in, Ramsey and Giroud go out.
Yep Guvna, props to OG for his backtracking and to Melnenny for his vision and execution of a first touch through pass that took out the entire Ludogerets midfield and defence.
As for OG, what an artiste! My favourite player to watch since the blessed DB10 (PBUH). However, I am disappointed that having left two defenders on their arses, he didn’t hop round the keeper again with the ball on his toe , beat the angry fella who is running back to the edge of the box, chip the ball up in the air and volley it into the top corner. That would have been special.
Sometimes a game is totally lifted above the ordinary by a moment of magic. For example when Santi changed the game in the Cup Final vs Hull with that free kick.
Last night’s match winner was a supreme example. I am still buzzing about it now and have watched it 15,237 times.
Good job I’m retired.
There is an article today by John Cross in the mirror where he says Mesut does this all the time. No, he does not mean the goal but the brilliance. I concur for I think he is like a camouflage, you do not see what he does, yet cannot take away what transpires. His vision and control of a pass are often brilliant.
The game was of 2 halves. Goals conceded were poor and worrying for those were elementary mistakes. Gibbs and Jenkinson cannot play the first team and I say this not based on 1 game but more so over a period of time. Ramsey on the flanks is an absolute no-no and I seriously felt, Arsene made a mistake with his team selection. play the players at their natural positions, we had ox/Iwobi and we should have had them playing wide than Ramsey. Giroud brings in the added dimension of strength and aerial powers and for me his importance is paramount. Overall a game we often lose, ended up being won. Lovely.
On to sunday and what a game it promises to be. We need santi and out full backs fit and ready for those tots are definitely well organized and compact. Wanyama will literally stand on santi and expect the same for mesut from dembele. The one who scores first often wins such games, so come on alexis, we need to beat those jokers.
Watch it again and again….. brillllllianttt!
http://i.imgur.com/tQs5XL9.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/yAxiSFs.mp4
😀 😀 😀
We have some impact subs in our squad as HFB showed on Saturday and Elneny today. That was a wonderful early ball with his first touch. He’s a very good player indeed
Re: ‘desi’gner gooner @38. Assisting himself in public. What will he think of next? 😉
BB, Looking at that second link, I wonder if the Ludo keeper instead of going for the ball with his right hand had impeded Ozil, as he seemed to have first had in mind, putting his hands across Ozil’s chest to hold him up, would have got away with it without a penalty.
Vinay@49. Spot on about Ozil. So much of what he does is about the speed of thought and vision and the technical perfection of the execution. He can see and play the defence-splitting one-touch perfectly weighted pass in the time it takes lesser mortals to get the ball under control and then look up. It is pure genius.
@NBN
If he had done that, no doubt that would be a sending off for him as he was the last man and also outside his box. In hindsight, they probably would have preferred it that way as it would only still be 2-2.
But I believe Ozil (or Alexis ) would have blasted home the free kick which is the perfect range for a curler to one of the top corners! 😀
As it stands, Ozil’s goal is one even Messi would have been proud of. More of it please!
Offer him and Alexis generous terms on their contract extensions as they have earned it! I genuinely believe since he(Ozil) came, our squad has been growing stronger steadily. My hope is that we finally get our hands on the CL trophy in the next few years (While Arsene is still the boss!)
😀
That was Ozilious!!!
Hope Walcott, Bellerin and Santi are back on Sunday, though.
COYGS!!!
like wiping yer arse
wi the wrong hand
success will eventually come yer way
.
UP THE ARSENAL
NBN @ 39 above. I thought the same too. I would like to add that he should have taken the 1st chance in the 1st half with a little more authority. He basically replicated what he did on Saturday vs Sunderland.
Still watching that goal on the arseblog blog link.
🙂
🙂
😀
premierinjuries.com have Wally/Nacho/Hector as 75% chance of playing at the w/end.
Santi sadly is only 25% chance.
Premier Inn Juries ?
Are there so many indiscretions at Premier Inns ?
Well at least they’re cheap. ?
Spurs seem to have figured out that Wembley is the stadium where the English team always loses. 😉
I see our Neighbors are having as much trouble playing at Wembley as we did.
We’re gonna win our group and draw Bayern Munich or Real Madrid aren’t we?
Tiny Tots headed for the Europa.
Trev
that website is very good for injury updates.
They seem to have the latest info even before the Managers weekly conference.
Far superior to physio.com.
Countryman,
I think our neighbors will take a gamble on Kane playing against us.
They cannot afford to lose,as that will open up a six point gap between us.
There’s a Manc on Twitter and some other blogs that I always enjoy reading. He’s written a great piece on Mesut’s goal.
http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/ozil/95510
Good news.
The FA and SFA are going to defy the FIFA ban on wearing a poppy on a black armband for their fixture on Remembrance Day. I’m pleased that they found the balls to do this.
The notoriously corrupt and mendacious bureaucracy is said to be planning to punish them. Bring it on. A ban from Russia and Qatar wouldn’t go amiss imho.
Good news indeed bath. Nobody is forcing anyone to wear the poppy, and nobody should force anyone not to. ??
Sorry. I need to add Juve to that list of clubs currently second in their group …………
If only that were true, ‘Holic. Can you imagine the pressure that any England or Scotland player who would prefer not to wear a poppy is coming under? Sure, in this country, the poppy is a simple symbol of remembrance. Back in the day it wasn’t in the least political; nowadays… I’m not so sure.
There are plenty of governments out there that might pressure their FAs to get the players to wear something political. I’d rather they were encouraged not to. The fact that the organisation is corrupt and mendacious doesn’t make their act of banning governments/FAs from sending out their players festooned with political symbols a bad thing.
Had this dispute arisen years ago, when politics in this country was conducted more sensibly, I’d like to think it would have been discussed and resolved behind closed doors. The current rabidly nationalist atmosphere makes my flesh crawl. I begin to suspect that the English-speaking world has learned nothing from the 1930s. Believe me, that matters to me.
In other news, we won this week and Tottenham lost. Mwahahahaha.
Apparently tonight was the Spuds 6th consecutive defeat at Wembley. Another record.
DVD out by Sunday I’m told.
85000+ turn up to watch spuds lose. No other club could manage this. Bless their cotton socks.
Pangloss.
What a good post. When did something so simple become so complicated?
I would like us to wear poppies. But I would like us to live in a world where this was not an issue and no-one batted an eyelid. Not a world where this has become a political football (sorry).
I think some things should be remembered. Poppies represent the best of humanity and the worst. The bravery and courage to fight in the face of destruction that human beings ourselves caused. And to win. This reminder of our duality, the capacity for good and bad in each of us, and that good can (indeed will) win out has never been more appropriate or necessary.
But Pangloss raises important concerns. He is certainly right that there would be no mercy in the media for any British player who did not want to wear a poppy. And using the media as the bully to enforce compulsory poppy wearing would be far worse than simply telling players it is mandatory.
How would we feel playing against a team whose government or FA were forcing them to play in a symbol we did not agree with? One representing violence or oppression in some form? And what wold be our grounds for complaint if we wear poppies? It may seem like a clear difference to us but it is all a matter of interpretation and there is no clear line between what is and is not an appropriate sleeve decoration, or who should get to decide.
Apart from FIFA that is. Who, as Pangloss notes, may be corrupt. But they may also be right.
And how sad would it be if the poppy symbol were highjacked to galvanise the current nationalistic trend and the march of oppression it implies? Irony anyone?
I also wonder at all of the people involved in football who have no problem with major championships in a country that persecutes homosexuals. Or one that uses slave labour. (And I have picked two examples from a long list). But then suddenly finds its balls when poppies become the issue.
Poppies also represent people who were willing to do the right thing, no matter the cost. People who stood up against oppression, incurring devastaing losses, because they had the true courage of their convictions. What is the value of pinning a poppy to our chests and singing a misty-eyed anthem as we pat ourselves on the back for standing up to the evil monster that is fifa when we fail to stand up for the values and standards set by our forebears and allow everything they stood against to grow and flourish? How do we think that anyone who played that legendary Christmas Day match of football would feel about what football has become? Or our silent endorsement of the practice of ignoring basic human rights? What value would they place on our stand for poppies on our sleeves? (armbands actually)?
I am not sure they would be impressed. The thing I find saddest about this issue is that people get so caught up in it, so full of the emotions it raises (much righteousness and indignance in the many) but do not seem to notice the most important point, as they scream wildly for the door to be slammed shut: The horse has already bolted.
I’m not overly concerned how this plays out. Wear them or do not wear them.
But on Nov 11th I will remember. And I will think about who I am remembering, what they did, why that is worth remembering, and what lessons I can learn.
To bring us full circle back to Arsenal. Remember who you are, what you are and who you represent.
And then try your best to do the right thing. I wish everyone the best of luck with this deceptively simple sounding task. Bucks fizz on the bar for those who wake up to this and need a livener to get them going. I hope it’s a good day for all Holics everywhere.
suddenly feeling a huge man crush on gsd for 72. and pangloss for 69. being in the USA at this moment, and being surrounded by horribly bad arguments, both posts are trenchant, and clearly thought. thanks, gents. drinks of your choice on the bar, and on lars’ tab.
E
Pangloss @75.
The master of understatement.
Sorry about mine@75. Not sure what happened.
Thanks, Will. It’s some time since I read it, but I still remember the effect that passages (possibly the whole book) about the planning and execution of Armistice Day 1920 (? maybe 1919) in The Stonor Eagles by William Horwood. Beyond high time I read it again.
I woke early this morning and couldn’t sleep so I turned on the tv just as the Spuds v Leverkusen kicked off.
I thought that would get me back to sleep pretty quickly but it was such a train wreck I ended up watching the whole thing.
Spuds were simply awful all over the park – defenders kept giving the ball away, midfield with no creativity at all and a non-existent forward line. Leverkusen won by a solitary goal but it could easily have been two or three. How Spuds are unbeaten in the league defies belief.
Roll on the weekend – I’m thinking 3-0.
UTA.
Pangloss and GSD – congratulations on brilliant posts.
I would like to join scruz and countryman in congratulating Pangloss & GSD on their wonderful posts.
Superb well thought out posts, GSD and Pangloss.
For better or for worse, I suspect the issues facing those who fell during the particular conflict that brought about the poppy as a symbol for the remembrance of the fallen in all wars seemed a lot more straightforward than the issue of the poppy itself is for those who object to it.
Arsene Press Conference this morning,re Sunday.
Santi the main doubt,late fitness test.50/50
Nacho/Wally 75/25
Hector 100%
I hope he resists the temptation to stick with Giroud, if Theo is fit. We had Theo (and the team) firing, which is just what we needed, and it would be a huge mistake to put him back in his box to keep Giroud in.
In my view.
Arsene Wenger on what Tottenham’s problems are…
“I don’t know, I’m not a specialist so I can’t give you my verdict on that. It’s not my job to do that.”
Ha! 🙂
Read more at http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20161103/-this-is-more-than-just-a-derby-#IgzQFOO4jGPVXheE.99
Interesting comments on this Arsenal squad by Charlie Nicholas at Sky:
“Overall, it is a team that, a year ago, would have felt sorry for themselves and felt it was not our night tonight,” the former Arsenal striker said.
“They got knocked back against Sunderland and more than deserved to win. To go 1-1 there and two down tonight, that’s a big change to what has happened at Arsenal.
bt @85
Arsene is not qualified to diagnose spuds problems because he is not a specialist… The translator was wrong again!
Still, nice of him to show Arsene how it’s done. ?
bt8.
I am sorry but my spoolchequer took it upon itself to remove the 8 from your name. Silly thing. (It, not you.)
Man utd down by a goal in the second minute against Fenerbache, haha.
Manure lose and a few more losses things will make the loathsome one’s position shaky.
GSD and Pangloss: Good and thoughtful posts above on the poppy. I think it has become a political symbol in the same way as draping yourself in the American flag: not to do so has become deemed an unpatriotic act. This is a post-9/11 phenomenon. George W Bush’s political genius was to use 9/11 to conflate government and state. Not being for us, the authorities, became being against us and thus, by extension, for the terrorist. It is an absurd leap of logic, but one which has now allowed representative democracy on both sides of the Atlantic to have degenerated into the theatre of the absurd.
May I add my congratulations to Pangloss and GSD for eminently sensible and well- expressed thoughts on the poppy debate. I recognise the unpleasant elements of nationalism that have attached themselves to the game and share Pangloss’s repugnance for them. He makes a very important point about the need to stop football jerseys becoming political statements and thus FIFA have the rule that they have. I thought Teresa May was riding on a populist bandwagon in the Commons yesterday but at the same time a discreet poppy on an armband is a sensible compromise and preserves the integrity of each party’s position.
One other element of the Remembrance date is worth mentioning. We played a home game about three years ago around Armistice Day and during the compulsory silence I watched with admiration and respect as Mertesacker, Ozil and Podolski stood heads bowed at a London football stadium honouring the dead. At that moment we were honouring British and Germans who had fallen and it felt right to do so and right that we could move on generations later without prejudice.
The world is an increasingly complicated and interwoven place and sometimes I think I follow football to avoid some of the issues assailing us in daily life. But increasingly many extraneous elements impinge on football and how and where it is played and it’s no longer possible to just consider football from an isolated perspective.
Fantasy football league says my team has been saved, which is interesting phrasing from a metaphysical viewpoint.
Many thanks for the kind words about my brief rant above.
In more other news, can someone remind me of the format of the Europa League? How many teams go forward from the group stage – I have a vague feeling that it’s three, but would appreciate confirmation. Looking at the position in Group A, it seems that Manchester Rowdies’ position is far from hopeless even if only two teams go forward, so the Odious Portugee’s job is probably safe at least until the end of the group stage. If the worst (?) happens, does the bar think he would be forced out? If so, who do we expect to replace him? What price ol’ purplenose being dragged kicking and screaming out of retirement?
Seems nicely set up for a dribble to the line.
Night all.
Can’t agree about OG, Cynic. I think his aerial abilities make us stronger in both attack and defence. It’s not like Alexis won’t be running into the CF position if he wants to, he’s never been one to be content to stick on a wing.
Also, Iwobi hasn’t had the same spark in recent games and is inneffective in front of goal, so needs to regroup before he can deliver on his undoubted promise. And Ox has never been good enough, imo.
Not to mention I’ve been waiting years to see OG and Theo playing together again regularly. They looked really good together all to briefly before Theo’s long injury out. That was when Theo was averaging more assists than Mesut, many of them to Ollie.
When did Ibrahimovic last score? How much are they paying him again?
5 goals in his first 5 games, and then he ran out of steam. Just one in his last 11. Welcome to a competitive league Zlatan.
Cheers for the kind words all.
NBN and TTG- good posts yourselves. NBN you are right about Bush. And no one saw his political genius even as it was unveiled and set in motion. His disguise was too good.
What next? Trump to bring world peace?
TTG you are right that remembrance is about those who fought and died- regardless of where they came from. War is a human thing- not the province of any specific nationalities.
Dribbles towards the line.
KabOOOOOOM!
I prefer to think of war as an INhuman thing, GSD. Strangely, every US president since WW2 has considered it essential to have a war in order to secure their legacy, or at least to secure a second term.
I’m sure Trump believes he can bring about world peace, GSD, or at least bring it to its collective knees in awe and fear of America The Great. This will inevitably, in Trump’s mind, make him richer than Croesus as he cream’s off a major share of of the exploitation that will follow. It’s positively Orwellian.
Well in Chris.
Unfortunately, I must disagree with your 101. Calling war inhuman is, in my opinion, simply not right. If all wars have not been caused and fought by humans then who by? What other species engages in war? By saying it is inhuman (coupled with our personal understanding of ourselves as human) we distance ourselves from it. We pretend that no decent human being could ever be drawn into such a thing. And we let our guard down. And we end up fighting each other. Most people on both sides of WW1 were probably as decent (far more decent?) as any of of us. Indeed, when I remember them it is their very humanity that touches me most and teaches me most.
To say war is inhuman is wishful thinking to my mind. And dangerous. The importance of choosing the right path would be lost if the wrong one was not so truly terrible.
Chris. How many wars do we think Trump will start?
As a public service here is some background on the only club Manchester United are not trailing in their Champions League group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Zorya_Luhansk
Whoops, I glorified Manchester United’s status a bit much there. Meant to say their Europa League group.
Cheers H!
Pangloss @ 69 WORD!
Some good follow up drinks as well. Massive respect for most posters in here.
Many species engage in fighting against their own species, GSD, usually lead by the biggest and strongest individual(s), usually to ensure they dominate their territory. What we call war is usually for the same ends, and just a far more organised form in which the prime drivers carefully avoid the actual fighting.
I say war is inhuman because it has us engaging in ‘natural’ animal behaviour which is counter to human values. Humans should be negotiating their differences, and only engaging in warfare when one side or the other acts as animals do. It’s perfectly legit (human) to defend oneself, but no longer legit to start wars against the ‘rules’ we have agreed to live by.
Bush jr, for example, started two wars for no other reason than to pursue the neocons’ PANAC wet dreams (although he was more a puppet than a leader in fact), when the rules the vast majority of countries abide by – by signing the Charter of The United Nations, as the US has done – obliges other paths to a solution be pursued first. None were.
You’re right that the foot soldiers in our wars are generally ‘ordinary’ citizens who have zero interest in killing people per se. I’m reminded of Orwell’s Lion and Unicorn essays, in particular the first essay, England Your England:
“As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me. They do not feel any enmity against me as an individual, nor I against them. They are ‘only doing their duty’, as the saying goes. Most of them, I have no doubt, are kind-hearted law-abiding men who would never dream of committing murder in private life. On the other hand, if one of them succeeds in blowing me to pieces with a well-placed bomb, he will never sleep any the worse for it. He is serving his country, which has the power to absolve him from evil.”
As far as I’m concerned there are members of our species who act like animals and start wars for their own glorification, and there are the rest of us, humans, who get dragged in whether we want wars or not. Usually not.
How many wars do I think Trump will start? None. He won’t be in a position to.
Pangloss@94: In short: 48 clubs involved in the group stage are seeded into four groups of 12. The 12 group-winners and the 12 runners-up from the group stage qualify for the round of 32.
If two or more clubs end up on equal points there is a hierarchy of 11 tie breakers outlined in section 16.01 of the regulations.
http://www.uefa.org/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/23/69/59/2236959_DOWNLOAD.pdf
With two games to go in the group stage, the Mancs’ fate is still in their own hands. Win both and they go on to the Round of 32 regardless.
Chris@101: Under the American system of divided government, deciding which country the US goes to war with is about the only power that the US president has.
Chris @108
Thanks for the reply. There is much there that I do not agree with or think is right. But what do i know? I made my point at 103 and have nothing to add. I have no insights into the philosophical nature of war that brighter people with more experience have not already expressed better. Indeed your reply quoted one (of many). A drink on the bar for you.
Surely all this talk of poppies and war has nearly wiled away enough time for us to turn our full attention to the next battle in the ongoing war between us and the spuds?
Great discussion GSD and Chris. This is why this bar is by far the greatest bar the world has ever seen. I agree with much of both perspectives but err on GSD’s side of the argument.
I do love that quote though, Chris.
War is very much part of the human condition. Whilst we are not the only creatures to systematically wage intraspecies conflict on a tribal basis, to suggest as Chris does that it would be more ‘human’ to eschew that ‘animal’ side of our nature is far too idealistic and ergo, unrealistic.
We are no better than animals when it comes to basic instincts, more sophisticated and intelligent though many of our species are than the ‘brightest’ of other species. Our evolution has permitted us to become one of the more numerous species on the planet, the most destructive one and certainly the only one in its history to date with the capacity to practically destroy it.
Although as I have already said, war is very much part of the human condition, it would be more ‘humane’ to suppress the instinct at every turn.
On that basis, I will welcome the unwashed of North London to our fine stadium on Sunday and hope they enjoy their heroes receiving a lesson in how the fine art of association football is played (a welcome distraction from the somewhat more destructive art of war).
On
*is intimidated by all the big boys talk*
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only joking fellas
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“classic intercourse !”
Is that the kind where she just lays there reading a book over your shoulder?
more the kind they have
at
Pete and Bernie’s Philosophical Steakhouse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7gDP3vIKdU
Just got in in time to appreciate those great posts by Pangloss and GSD.
If only such sane analysis could be employed by those in a position to start an actual war, as we have right there with regards to poppies remembering the dead of their wars.
Some great oiunts in both posts.
If a poppy is to be used on an international stage, it will hopefully be to remember all the dead in all the wars, regardless of race, colour or creed.
Oiunts = points
Technology !!!
“classic intercourse”
My mate used to light up before he’d finished.
Dunno if this link will work, hope so.
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/794474117156237312
Works here Esso.
*grins*
cracker esso ?
My 2 cents on “American” wars and presidents.
The biggest problem in America is that the private defense industry (Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, General Dynamics +++++) is a very powerful group, that directly/indirectly lobbies Congress/Govt for more “unlimited” defense spending and indirectly an arena/market for their products. Most of the companies on this list sell US$ billions into the US military system and they depend on it for survival. To make matters worse, when some of the military brass retire, they are easily absorbed into the defense industry in order for them to reach back to their former colleagues to enhance their new employer’s order book. These private defense contractors are the enablers of war in America.
Trev – I was watching the World Series game 7 the other night (I know, but I had insomnia) and the two American commentators were wearing poppies. I was quite surprised by that.
Is a 12 match ban enough for this? I don’t think so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFiVd6BZX0
Cynic
I watched that game (long time Cubs fan). Fabulous sporting occasion. What a series, what a game!
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