Three Away Points For Arsene’s Final Salute
May 13th, 2018 by 'holic
If Arsene Wenger’s last match in charge of the Arsenal was not to be at Ashburton Grove then Huddersfield, from where we poached Herbert Chapman in 1925, was the second best option. The atmosphere surrounding the fixture dripped in nostalgia at what both of the great managers have contributed to The Arsenal.
The boss selected David Ospina for his final fixture behind a back four of Hector Bellerin, Shkodran Mustafi, Rob Holding, and Sead Kolasinac. Granit Xhaka and Aaron Ramsey lined up behind Henrikh Mkhitaryan, Alex Iwobi, and Pierre-Emerick Aubamayang. Alexandre Lacazette was leading the line. Arsene was afforded a guard of honour as he came out for his 828th Premier League match.
Ominously Huddersfield started the brighter, cheered to the rafters by their fanatical support who, having lauded their own manager, paid tribute to “One Arsene Wenger”. In the twenty-second minute, in recognition of Arsene’s 22 years in the Premier League, they gave him a standing ovation and a minute of solid applause. Classy indeed.
To that point though their team had dominated. The Gunners only efforts were a tame Mkhitaryan free-kick and a wild swing by Ramsey. In the twenty-seventh minute Kolasinac missed a great chance at the far post after a Xhaka corner was headed on to him. The biggest talking point was the earlier flight of an airborne banner telling Arsene “We’ll miss you too”.
Pritchard and Ince had threatened to unhinge the visitors in the opening quarter of the match, but slowly the Gunners crept into the game and very much against the run of play in the thirty-eighth minute Mkhitaryan, Lacazette, and Ramsey combined in a flowing move to tee up Aubamayang, who else, for the opening goal.
Huddersfield Town 0-1 The Arsenal
A combination of the sunshine and that goal seemed to temporarily knock the stuffing out of the hosts, noticeably less quick to press which allowed us to take a real grip on the game for the closing minutes of the half.
The Terriers regained their mojo at the start of the second-half and once again took control of proceedings, barring a mistake that ended with Aubamayang unable to pick out Ramsey in the box. At the other end cross after cross was dealt with nervously by a defence that was being exposed more than it would have liked.
On the hour mark Ince was sprung on the Huddersfield left and his final contribution to the match was an angled drive that Ospina had to dive full length to tip wide of his far post for a corner. Depoitre came on in Ince’s place, a big presence to add a dangerous second prong to the Huddersfield attack.
It was time for Arsene to make his last substitutions as The Arsenal manager. Nacho Monreal came on for Kolasinac, and Danny Welbeck somewhat surprisingly for Aubamayang. Shortly afterwards Ainsley Maitland-Niles came on for Iwobi, frustrating and inspirational in equal measure.
A rare break-out saw Xhaka find Ramsey in the box and the close attention he received from a blocking defender was deemed fair by Michael Oliver, who to be fair was having an excellent game as referee. There, I’ve said it! Bellerin’s dangerous clearing header from an excellent Pritchard cross was cleared by Maitland-Niles at the expense of a corner that we survived.
With just over ten minutes Lacazette had a wonderful chance to seal the points when played in by Mkhitaryan, but his attempt to chip Lossl failed as the goalkeeper stood firm. The goalkeeper was called into action again a couple of minutes later to thwart Wellbeck in a one on one. Then a Xhaka special from distance thundered narrowly wide of the target. The Arsenal were finishing strongly.
Dean Whitehead was given the final four minutes plus added time to play his last time in the Premier League. Mooy was a whisker away from a dramatic equaliser as his volley brushed the top off the crossbar. The match was in no way limping to a close. We were however clinging on for our first away points of 2018. “49 49 undefeated” rang around the stadium as a salute to Arsene’s finest achievement. A fantastic last gasp save by Ospina kept his clean sheet intact.
The final whistle brought about a pitch invasion from the hosts, thus delaying things for the travelling faithful, not always a hundred percent behind the manager, but wanting to pay him the respect he so deserved. Eventually they did get their wish.
Things will be very different next season.
Merci Arsene. We’ll miss you too.
192 Responses to “Three Away Points For Arsene’s Final Salute”
Brilliant and supersonic speed write up! Impressed with Ospina who too could be waving goodbye with Akers, Scott and Wenger
now what?
An away win at last. I saw the last one at Palace in December. I saw a little bit of this one in the second half but this report is very helpful …and prompt. Thanks for all your hard work during the season Holic and some special reports. It’s going to be a busy close season. An old mate of mine who gave up his season ticket is considering coming back and he probably won’t be alone.
Arsene has gone with massive dignity and class and we will remember his reign with gratitude and fondness . But Arsenal goes on without him and hopefully goes on very excitingly . Aubameyang has hit the ground running and hopefully more is to come. We shall see.
Things will be very different next season.
Merci Arsene. We’ll miss you too.
Amen to that, Holic.
You finished the season with more style and elegance than the team managed today, ‘Holic. Excellent write-up in the absence of a final flourish of Wengerball on the pitch. I can’t remember a game when we had the ball up in the air as much as we did today. More beachball than Wengerball of any mark.
As TTG says, Arsene has gone with massive dignity and leaves a legacy that will look much enhanced once there is some distance from his departing. He also leaves the bones of a squad that, with the appropriate retooling, could deliver silverware next season, perhaps the final title that at one point he may have thought he might land next season. Not to be. Yet the sun shines down on Castle Ned as I write, and the world does not seem to have come to an end. Next season will be…different.
Again to echo TTG to the word, thanks for all your hard work during the season, Guv’nor, and some special reports.
An era ends with a classic 1-0 to the Arsenal scoreline Love it. Still waiting for the last AW post matcher on the radio. You just know it will be classy and humorous. End of an era indeed.
Merci Arsene.
A win is a win and I’ll take it for
AW’s last game. His final service
among too many to mention was too
pragmatically get the away monkey
off our backs. We certainly won’t be
seeing the like of AW again and it’s
a privilege to have been a gooner during
his time. Much as the 30s Gooners
must have thought about Herbert
Chapman I guess.
For next season it’s easy to see that
keeping Auba fit and mentally right
will be key for us.
And finally I must admit Uddersfeeled
went up a notch in my estimation –
far more welcome than Stoke or
West Brom
Bugger, I forgot to say thanks for
the quick report and a season’s hard
work Guvnor – it’s very much
appreciated.
What Matt said at 9.
Thanks all. Just finished the ABW radio show as well. Now for some roast chicken, and doubtless shed another wee tear during MotD.
Cheers H.
Not seen anything of the game yet so will reserve judgment until MOTD.
These were not my words but I saw them elsewhere. Just summed up the way I felt today.
“ARSENE WENGER HAS GIVEN ME MANY OF THE GREATEST MEMORIES OF MY LIFE. THE TROPHIES. THE AMAZING FOOTBALL THAT HIS TEAMS PLAYED. SO MANY GIFTED, WORLD CLASS FOOTBALLERS MANY OF WHOM HE HIMSELF IMPROVED AND DEVELOPED. EVERY ARSENAL FAN LUCKY ENOUGH TO WITNESS THOSE DAYS WILL NEVER FORGET THEM.
HE MADE OUR DREAMS COME TRUE.”
Somehow, we might just have taken a lot of it for granted. The coming weeks will be full of the unknown. The fact that Ivan will now report to Stanley with his recommendations does not fill me massively with confidence. I just hope that those around him now have the brains and knowledge to make the correct decision
I love you all.
Just glanced at the table. We conceded 51 goals this season! That is appalling! Relegated West Brom only conceded five more! We scored the same number as the Totts (74) but conceded 15 more. We outscored Chelsea and United but any side looking to get into the Champions League has to concede no more than a goal a game.
Ned will know but this must be one of our best seasons at home since the Invincibles and I’m sure we’ve lost more home games and won the title. But that away form was relegation form. It won’t take a genius to identify the priorities for a new manager . The away form and the defensive weaknesses are clearly linked. But we have two strikers who we might hope will exceed 20 league goals next season and if he stays fit, Auba might get 30. Hark at me a few hours after the season’s finished! But hope springs eternal!
While not a Wengerball 4-1 or 5-2 result, a prototypical “1-0 to the Arsenal ” was somehow a fitting finale for AW at the spiritual home of Herbert Chapman. Merci bien and au revoir, Arsene !
Caught the video wrap around at all the PL grounds. At Swansea, the one player who was taking their demotion hard was Fabianski, who really did play his heart out for them. If Ospina is truly on his way out and with Cech on his final contract year, it may be worth a look at Lukasz, who has seemed to overcome his flappiness and matured into a steady premiership level keeper. Lord knows he’s capable of saving PKs!
TTG@13: This season was our lowest away points tally ever in the Premiership. Previous worse was 22 points in 2005-06. Yet we’ve only twice got more home points. Even the Invincibles managed only two more than we got this season.
Pts (H) Pts (A)
2017-18 47 16
2016-17 45 30
2015-16 40 31
2014-15 41 34
2013-14 44 35
2012-13 38 35
2011-12 40 30
2010-11 37 31
2009-10 47 28
2008-09 38 34
2007-08 47 36
2006-07 42 26
2005-06 45 22
2004-05 44 39
2003-04 49 41
2002-03 47 31
2001-02 40 47
2000-01 48 33
1999-00 45 28
1998-99 47 33
1997-98 47 31
1996-97 35 33
1995-96 27 26
1994-95 27 24
1993-94 38 33
1992-93 30 26
This season we lost just two games at home, taking 47 points. In 1997-98 we won the title with an identical home record. We we next won the title, in 2001-02, we lost three home games and took 40 points. The Invincibles, of course, lost no home games in 2003-04 but took only two more points, 49, than we did this season. However, they took 31 more away points.
2000-01 above should be 47-22 (not 33). That was also the last time before this season that we had a negative away goal difference.
Wonderful research thanks Ned. It’s been a very perplexing season and the evidence is there in black and white .I remember we scored in every away game in the last double season of 2001/02 and if I remember rightly we were unbeaten away . What a contrast with this campaign!
Arteta is currently the favorite to ne next Arsenal manager at Skybet. The way they have a new favorite each day really gives the impression they have no idea.
Thanks Ned, the figures are as stark
as you like. The unbeaten away seasons
seem a long time ago. We’ve been
poor away for a while now, and a more
“hate to lose” attitude would be very
welcome.
Personally, I agree with AW – 3 new
signings would do it – CB, DM are musts
and GK would help a lot. That’s assuming
Nacho can go another season at LB.
And Hector can be improved.
Also a return to a back 3 can’t come
soon enough. We have enough talent
up front to compensate for the extra
defender and our away form shows
the need for a stronger defence so
clearly that even the most blinkered
of traditionalists must agree.
Nothing to do with The Arsenal but
it made me laugh – I lost the fantasy
league title by a point after Ederson
somehow managed to get booked
as the sub keeper in the last minute
– my new “most hated player” 🙂
The way they have a new favorite each day really gives the impression they have no idea.
SkyBet or the Arsenal board?
Morning.
I have to say, it’s at time like this when I have to visit the bar and say:
Wenger’s farewell and send has been emotional. The respect shown by the football industry has been immense.
🙂
Cynic. I left the sentence slightly ambiguous because it could be a little of both. Skybet was the original thought though.
Oh on the managerial side all fingers still point towards Allegri.
A very sad day indeed, yesterday.
I was thinking overnight about Andrew Allen’s wonderful piece on Arseblog cataloging the many moments that made Arsene great. So many happy memories of superb football and wonderful players, and also Andre Santos.
As I reflected on it all, and the events of the last couple of weeks, I came to realise that the one thing the article lacked, the missing ingredient, so to speak, is the very thing that I’ve loved the most about Arsene Wenger; his integrity.
For all the wonderful achievements on the pitch, for all the joy of those first 7 or 8 years and those world class sides he built, when all is said and done the achievement for which I respect him the most will be the post-Emirates austerity years. Because it’s easy to keep your cool when you’re winning, but so so much harder when things don’t go to plan.
As I listened to Pochettino yesterday, explaining how he will in all probability be off if the club doesn’t roll the dice on his development with money it currently doesn’t have, I wondered what sort of a man would compromise his own career prospects to stay at a club with elevated expectations and little budget. And, of course, the answer came back to me fairly quickly.
For all the fan denial of some of the trophyless years, for all the propagandising, it seems that we now generally accept that the club did not have much money to spend on transfers from 2006 to 2013, and that Wenger could easily have gone elsewhere had he chosen to do so, particularly in the early part of that period, fresh off the back of the Invincibles and a Champs League final.
That he didn’t do so was remarkable. That he maintained his loyalty in the face of what was – let’s be frank here – some pretty appalling abuse, even more so. The man conducted himself with enormous class and dignity, epitomized the values of the club and provided us all with a lesson that extends way beyond football.
As I watched him give his lap of honour at the Emirates last weekend, the thought occurred that – in some ways – it’s been a fitting end that he has left in this manner. Absent an impending final, it gave the support a chance to step back, consider the man’s achievements and his status as a human being. There was no final chapter waiting to be written, no tension hanging over proceedings, no illusion that his legacy somehow hung on one more result.
We’ve all felt that maybe the time to go was after one of the cup finals, but in hindsight that would have been no sort of goodbye. What we got this month was proper closure; an opportunity to say farewell and to renew the mutual bond between manager and support. Personally, I’m glad it happened as it did.
The thought occurred that in the not too distant future I may see an Arsenal manager do something I really disagree with. Maybe throw a player under the bus. Maybe give themselves all the credit after a victory. Maybe build a super defensive side. Maybe in any way shape or form resemble Jose Mourinho. What a strange old feeling that will be, when inevitably the day arrives – it’s not something we’ve had to worry too much about these last 22 years.
Anyway, I just wanted to say once more, Merci to Arsene Wenger. An absolute gent, throughout good times and bad. That’s not easy – certain sections of our own support could do with trying it.
Wherever he goes next, I wish him well. And whoever takes over the hot seat, I hope they’re given time and tolerance by the club and the support. Because it’s not an easy job, no matter what they pay you, and harder still if you hope to retain your decency.
ONE ARSENE WENGER.
COYG
just to say – that’s a
cracking post N7
Well said, N7 Gooner, absolutely spot on.
With Brendan hovering around the 7/2 mark in the betting, the dreaded day when you might disagree with an Arsenal manager might arrive rather earlier than you anticipate – let’s pray that it doesn’t.
That was beautiful, N7.
Been a while. Hope you’re great.
Just come on here to say thanks N7 for a superb post. That sums it all up, as Mr Tyler would say.
aww yeah n7
that’s what’s i was gonna say
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4eo0OY8GOuc
?
N7, That was surely one of the best if not the best post I’ve read so far regarding Arsene departure.
Thank you N7.
N7 that is a blinding post, absolutely first-class.
My one point of possible departure with you relates to if he had left after the Cup Final last year. We wouldn’t have had the farewell tour but I feel this season has seen him struggle with the job in a way he never has before and get dog’s abuse. If his last game had been the mullering of the Chavs at Wembley that would have been first-class . But your point about the struggle through the austerity years is a very well made one. He stayed because as it became clear over the last few weeks he loves the club to bits . I suspect he feels very strange today .
Nice to see you back
.
bully boys
given the green light
by a moron’s chinless daughter
.
i hope there’s hope for us all
Great post N7. All that you said was in my head, just didn’t know how to put it on paper. Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5BJXwNeKsQ&list=PLlOo_R3YjuEi5_6ptmmPZatQbtqEGtvMc
Come on Fulham . I want that walk through Bishop’s Park en route to the Cottage next season !
.
lay down yer life
in the hope the world is watching
but
the world
is
america
.
.
sorry ‘holic
no place I know
it’s no place to moooooooooooooooooooooo
either
n7, top post. you articulate so much of what i feel. thank you. we really have been blessed…with not only a great manager, but a fine human being.
cba, god help us if your last of 39 is the case. and this coming from an (ashamed, more and more by the moment, to be an) american.
scruz
i’m Irish
i’m sure you don’t tar all my countrymen
with my drunken brush
but if you do
can i have it back
it’s very absorbent
N7G@26: Let me add to the praise for a top post.
cba, i don’t tar any group with any brush. but damned if recent events (since november of 2016) don’t make me want to.
the only thing i’d use your brush for is the roof. or the teat of a cow with mastitis.
here’s a willett 8 year old rye on the bar for ya.
cheers big man
?
i don’t drink myself ?
but i’m sure someone’ll snurf it
N7,
lovely sentiments on the one and only Arsene Wenger.
The highest accolade i can pay your post,is i would have been proud to have written it myself.
As for the Club itself,
It looks like a mass clearout has occurred among the backroom staff,with all the following names out the door, first team coaches Primorac and Banfield,fitness and goalkeeping coaches Colbert and Peyton,and physio Colin Lewin.
Only Jens and Bouldy still standing.
A bright note is Freddie coming back to coach the Youth team,joining Per who is set to take on the Academy side.
More changes afoot i suspect.
.
i feel the disappointment of ‘holic weighing heavy
on an already weighed down disappointed me
sorry clive
not enough though
to miss
THE HALF TON
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1iABFZGzEjY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GePCrb8W13o
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qLC9o_unLq4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UTR2IlAJEyQ
Ryan Sessegnon of Fulham seems to be quite the player, and did his part to make the TTG dream @38 come true by helping move the Cottagers on to the playoff final v. Villa or Boro. Fulham, in my opinion, would be infinitely preferable to either of them.
Get
your
kicks
On
Route
61
By the way, N7 nailed it with that post about Wenger’s integrity.
@61:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_State_Highway_61
Rapidly
Approaching
THE
2/3 ton
I hope it’s not Boro.
A miserable shithole far away about
which I want to know little
Clive@54: I am wondering about the significance of the backroom clear-out. Does it suggest that we are well advanced in appointing a manager with a ready-made team of assistants of his own, which would imply an established manager; or is it just a general clearing of the decks as part of the process that caused the departure of the top man? I can understand why Primorac would go, given his long Wenger connection, though it is odd that Banfield is out but not Bould, given they were both promoted to first-team coach at the same time. (I hope none of that is in anyway connected to the recent bullying accusations though there is no word of Gatting’s future, so I assume not.) Peyton, the goalkeeping coach shown the door, has long had his detractors (including Woj, who said he learned more in four months on loan at Roma than he did in 10 years under Peyton). The removal of fitness coach Colbert and physiology Lewin looks as if Gazidis and the rest of the new ruling trinity are looking at the coming generation of valuable youngsters and do not want their careers stunted by Wilshere-like long-term injuries.
Ozil in hot water for being politically incorrect: http://www.dw.com/en/mesut-özil-and-ilkay-gündogan-criticized-for-erdogan-meeting/a-43780509
Ireland’s U-17 keeper sent off during Euros penalty shoot out after ref gives him a second yellow for moving early.
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/2573783/republic-of-ireland-u17-goalkeeper-jimmy-corcoran-sent-off-during-penalty-shoot-out-in-european-championship-loss-to-the-netherlands/
Ned,
I suspect Peyton was retained against the advice of several people because of Arsene’s loyalty to people. I think Gazidis , who now has an office at London Colney believes there was too cosy an approach and that we needed more freshness and new ideas .
As for Lewin, I have to say I do not think we may have managed Koscielny, Wilshere , Ramsey, The Ox, Theo and Santi foptimally.
He has got a high reputation at the club but I suspect ( and don’t know)
that there may be tensions between Burgess and Forsythe and Lewin.
Trev and Bath know far more about this area than I do but I think our recovery rates and the handling of our long-term casualties could have been much better.
As for Fulham I thought they played really good football last night and won well. I’d love them to win at Wembley. I’ve got a lot of friends who support them who are over the moon about going back to Wembley after 43 years.
CBA@42,
My first belly laugh of the day, thanks.
Sebastian Dangerfield lives!
Ned
I suspect it is a case of getting in first,to save the new manager the job of doing it.
I gather Jens is safe,but Bouldy is waiting to see who is appointed before making a decision.
ha ha dorset M
i’ll confess to a small titter meself
Arteta now long odds-on with all the bookie chappies.
Better to have small titters than big ones, if you’re a chap.
Dorset @76. Odds-on, you say. That is a sign of something happening, it seems. Long live the Arteta.
?
(as if to remove all doubt)
?
But if it’s true at least our manager will have good hair.
Anybody out there for a manager with good hair? Is that the reason Paddy has seemed to drop out of the running while Arteta’s name has risen to the top?
Vieira.
Whoa Whoa
Vieiira …
The bald appointment.
To show we mean business.
The question is, which appointment will assure a return of the Feelgood factor?
If the stories about Sven wanting five new players is true it means either the £50 m kitty story is rubbish OR we have deals in place to sell ‘assets’
like Mustafi and Bellerin and hopefully Ospina.
Probably leaves out Moyes then.
We will be able to see signs of the new regime having had an impact when more than 1/8 of our new signings expenditures go to defensive players. Hopefully speaking.
Not to say the 1/8 means anything other than we should focus on defensive signings, whatever the exact proportions are.
britain calls on israel to show GREATER restraint
sweet merciful mother of fuck
if i fuckin hear International Condemnation again
i am gonna fuckin boke
*googles boke*
Boking would be appropriate at this stage, I am agreed with you cba.
At least one bookie has closed the book on Arteta, who will doubtless be announced in the next few days or weeks. Arsenal really are the worst penny-pinching c**ts! Which other top club (possibly outside the Spanish giants) would appoint manager with zero experience as a manager or head coach?
Best of luck to Fulham at Wembley. We are all are behind you.
Arteta would be the appointment of a club happy to be top six. Someone like Allegri would be the choice of a club that expects to win the league.
well 8ball
boking like yawning
can be contagious
please god let our new appointment
not affect either in all of us
?
No Allegri or Ancelotti?
Mamma mia
Not to bring Abba into it.
I read one fan saying The Arsenal
would regress 10 years if we
appointed Arteta.
I was kind of hoping for 15 years.
That was a good year as I recall.
my personal choice Thady Quill
.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=13Iw_drPFAM
.
For ramblin’, for rovin’, for FOOTBALL or courtin’
For drinkin’ black porter as fast as you’d fill
In all your days rovin’ you’d find none so jovial
As the Muskerry sportsman the bould Thady Quill
i accept
No other fox in the box, other than …
Thady Quill himself!!!
merci Thady
cos
go raibh maith agat
doesn’t rhyme
To lighten the mood….
Just a short list of countries that didn’t exist when spurs last won the league.
June 19, 1961 – Kuwait
January 1, 1962 – Samoa
July 1, 1962 – Burundi
July 1, 1962 – Rwanda
July 5, 1962 – Algeria
August 6, 1962 – Jamaica
August 31, 1962 – Trinidad and Tobago
October 9, 1962 – Uganda
December 12, 1963 – Kenya
April 26, 1964 – Tanzania
July 6, 1964 – Malawi
Sept.21, 1964 – Malta
October 24, 1964 – Zambia
February 18, 1965 – Gambia, The
July 26, 1965 – Maldives
August 9, 1965 – Singapore
May 26, 1966 – Guyana
September 30, 1966 – Botswana
October 4, 1966 – Lesotho
November 30, 1966 – Barbados
January 31, 1968 – Nauru
March 12, 1968 – Mauritius
Sept. 6, 1968 – Swaziland
October 12, 1968 – Equatorial
June 4, 1970 – Tonga
October 10, 1970 – Fiji
March 26, 1971 – Bangladesh
August 15, 1971 – Bahrain
Sept. 3, 1971 – Qatar
November 2, 1971 – United Arab Emirates
July 10, 1973 – Bahamas
Sept. 24, 1973 – Guinea-Bissau
February 7, 1974 – Grenada
June 25, 1975 – Mozambique
July 5, 1975 – Cape Verde
July 6, 1975 – Comoros
July 12, 1975 – Sao Tome and Principe
Sept. 16, 1975 – Papua New Guinea
November 11, 1975 – Angola
November 25, 1975 – Suriname
June 29, 1976 – Seychelles
June 27, 1977 – Djibouti
July 7, 1978 – Solomon Islands
October 1, 1978 – Tuvalu
November 3, 1978 – Dominica
February 22, 1979 – Saint Lucia
July 12, 1979 – Kiribati
October 27, 1979 – Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
April 18, 1980 – Zimbabwe
July 30, 1980 – Vanuatu
January 11, 1981 – Antigua and Barbuda
Sept.21, 1981 – Belize
Sept. 19, 1983 – Saint Kitts and Nevis
January 1, 1984 – Brunei
October 21, 1986 – Marshall Islands
November 3, 1986 – Micronesia, Federated States of
March 11, 1990 – Lithuania
March 21, 1990 – Namibia
May 22, 1990 – Yemen
April 9, 1991 – Georgia
June 25, 1991 – Croatia
June 25, 1991 – Slovenia
August 21, 1991 – Kyrgyzstan
August 24, 1991 – Russia
August 25, 1991 – Belarus
August 27, 1991 – Moldova
August 30, 1991 – Azerbaijan
Sept. 1, 1991 – Uzbekistan
Sept. 6, 1991 – Latvia
Sept. 8, 1991 – Macedonia
Sept. 9, 1991 – Tajikistan
Sept. 21, 1991 – Armenia
October 27, 1991 – Turkmenistan
November 24, 1991 – Ukraine
December 16, 1991 – Kazakhstan
March 3, 1992 – Bosnia and Herzegovina
January 1, 1993 – Czech Republic
January 1, 1993 – Slovakia
May 24, 1993 – Eritrea
October 1, 1994 – Palau
May 20, 2002 – East Timor
June 3, 2006 – Montenegro
June 5, 2006 – Serbia
February 17, 2008 – Kosovo
July 9, 2011 – South Sudan
Why would Arteta accept Ivan’s poison chalice? It could finish him for good.
While I’m not ecstatic about Arteta I think this is a genuine and well thought- through decision which doesn’t have anything to do with penny-pinching. Gazidis believes that Arteta is a potentially great coach and has put in place a structure which is much slicker and organised than the all roads lead to Arsene model we’ve had since the demise of David Dein. If we couldn’t get Allegri – and I don’t think we can -he represents an interesting option,
If our January transfer window is any indication ( compare it with our last three summer windows) we are much more engaged with the conveyor belt of talent in Europe and much swifter to the punch than we were under Arsene .
The three most successful Arsenal managers in my lifetime- Mee, Graham and Wenger- were all greeted with muted enthusiasm on their appointment. Gazidis was desperate to keep Arteta at the club as a coach but Arsene didn’t want him. I think he is going to surprise people and if he’s chosen he will start with my full support.
Football is spoilt by giving a voice to far too many pricks on social media ( says he on social media!) . You can never satisfy everyone but let’s give whoever we choose a chance.
they all existed steve
names forced/changed/taken away
don’t alter that
let’s give whoever we choose a chance.
If whoever he is loses his first game he can fuck off to Spurs 🙂
Arteta sends all the wrong signals for me. I think this club needs a stick of dynamite put under it and a huge personality to come in and shake the place up, not a guy with no reputation who just feels like a comfort choice.
We’ve had enough comfort zone stuff in the last dozen years, I was hoping for someone who will demand performances and have the strength to push out players he doesn’t want.
This, if it happens, feels like a guy who will do as he’s told by the management, won’t rock the boat and will let things carry on exactly as they have been doing.
Of all the names we’ve been linked to, and all the ones we could go to, there’s only one who would be more underwhelming and that’s Rodgers.
I hope he does well but I can’t help thinking this is an interim, cheapo, option.
It remains to be seen whether Arteta will be concerned with plugging the leaky defence. Maybe we need a defensive coach like Martin Keown, though not Merts. Stewie Robson, grinding his axe as usual, doesn’t believe Arteta has the forceful personality to control the dressing room.
I totally agree with you TTG ref Arteta. He also ticks all the boxes which Gazidis said the next manager should have: will play entertaining football, will promote youth, and shares the values of the club. Arteta loves the club, comes over as thoughtful and intelligent and appears to be calm, composed and strong. I suspect he also knows his own mind and won’t be easily swayed by the media and ex players, poking their nose in. I don’t know how good a communicator he is or how he will cope dealing with former team mates as a manager. Nevertheless, I think he would be an exciting appointment and one I could certainly get behind. I think he has many obvious good qualities and probably some we are not aware of.
I meant to say that if Arteta has been too much influenced by playing under Wenger, what was and is the point. Surely the original is always better than the copy.
Biscuitbum
I suspect Arteta has been much more influenced by working as a coach with the best coach in the world- Pep- but he was given some basic education by Wenger and let us not forget Wenger was a pretty good attacking coach. I disagree with Cynic but understand his concerns. I’m old enough to remember the incredulity when we appointed a physiotherapist as manager. Mee had Sexton and then Howe as his coach and the combination was superb. Guys like Sanllehi and Mislintat are big ticket players and would not allow us to recruit someone who wasn’t up to snuff.
Additionally, Arteta was nicknamed ‘ Coach’ when he played at Arsenal and upset a number of his team-mates and this , to me , is a good sign. He needs to kick arse as well as build a style. Bayern have gone for Kovacs as coach next year and Barca have Valverde. Allegri was not a household name when Milan recruited him and who had ever heard of Tuchel, Pochettino, and Mourinho as players? . Simeone has built his reputation at Atletico but wasn’t a big coaching name when recruited by Atletico and Klopp was not a big name when starting with Mainz.
Ah, the eternal question arises.
Arsekicker or arselicker?
I don’t get why we have to discount the Spanish giants when calling The Arsenal penny pinchers.
Barca with Pep and Real with Zidane didn’t choose so badly for their first jobs.
It’s beginning to seem like we had no succession plan in place.
Would we have been better served leaving AW to see out his contract while his successor was sorted out?
Given the ever increasing disparity between the biggest clubs in the land and the others, Arsene’s prediction of a super league doesn’t seem so far-fetched.
If there were to be a breakaway today, we may just sneak in. Not so if we don’t get our shit together.
We are presently at the bottom of the ‘Big Six’ in the league and need to do all in our power not to be set adrift.
Giving Arteta the job reeks of desperation in an unnecessary power grab and is a high risk strategy that could see us move much further away from the leading pack than we are at present.
This is a time to consolidate and ensure we remain one of the big hitters.
Arteta is a risk I’m not sure we should take at this time.
He is an idea whose time has come too early.
Having said that, if he is appointed, he has my full backing.
Gazidis is beginning to smell a bit to me.
Pep was a head coach for a full season even if it was with the ‘B’ side while Zizou was in charge of the reserves and was in the mix behind the scenes non stop for quite a bit.
Arteta played for us for just 5 years and has served as an assitant at ANOTHER club for just 2 years.
There is a massive difference.
@ 70 North Bank Ned. I will never forgive Ozil for that! In the middle of an election campaign as well. How dare he treat our club shirt in vain!
didn’t Pep & Zidane both head-coach their respective club’s B-teams, who i think both play in the Spanish second tier-ish, mind?
Psed heh @114
PPsed – sorry Solid, i see you got there already.
PPPsed @114 keeps on getting better.
We need someone who can integrate the youth, play beautiful football and fit into the modern administrative structure all while on a budget.
Look no further than Leonardo Jardim. He’s won a league title in one of Europe’s big five doing all of the above.
He even managed to put P.S.G’s nose out of joint. That is the kind of appointment we ought to make if getting the real heavy hitters is a no no.
Arteta can come in afterwards. I would take him in a flash at that time even if he’d just relegated a team from the championship because he would be ready and more importantly, Arsenal would be steady.
Unproven manager + new administrative system + immediately following 22 years of Wenger = Very risky.
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-44132478/jeremy-corbyn-intervenes-to-hail-arsene-wenger
One Arsene Wenger!
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mp-calls-for-arsene-wenger-to-receive-knighthood-as-jeremy-corbyn-heaps-praise-a3840146.html
He deserves it to be fair.
Merci, ‘h! ?
Merci for the away win and points, Huddersfield. ?
Merci, Arsène! ?
Bring on the new era! ?
Solid,
We will never endure another Arsene Wenger, despite his shortcomings he gave the youth a chance, tried to build a squad without braking the bank or rich owners. He always did things with dignity and class, despite the abuse he kept going, he tried hard and worked his socks off for this in the end the love affair came to an end!
The players did not help him one bit, l know he takes full responsibility but boy they need a kick up their arses too!
Perhaps his philosophy needed adjustments, we all know he was stubborn to take advice from others. Perhaps that would have helped him, it’s still strange for me to think there will be someone else at the touchline next season.
Whoever comes in I will support…I sincerely hope the Ivan and others have done their homework and will choose the right successor.
Solid
I really don’t think you can say we didn’t have a succession plan in place. That is exactly what we started constructing in the winter and what so few people seem to realise is that we have had two top-class people in place for months. It must have been very tense as Atsene’s role changed but he has borne it with great outward dignity.The plan has evolved and moved on apace when Arsene was told he wasn’t being retained next year.
We are now going through an interview process as you would expect us to. If we didn’t all hell would break loose.
Arsene combined three roles and overstretched himself. Arteta has impressed some seriously good people with his coaching ability and knows the club already. He is considering Santi as one of his team as a player- coach. That would be a lovely way to tap into his ability as a player and senior figure in the dressing room.
Jardim is the best alternative but I think Holic makes a very good point @115.
But I don’t think we’re on the same page because for the first time since he’s been here Gazidis is starting to smell a little bit sweet to me ?
We need someone who can integrate the youth, play beautiful football and fit into the modern administrative structure all while on a budget.
Why?
English football has never been richer, Arsenal has probably never been much richer than this (I’m allowing for fluctuations in the last five years in case someone proves we were 50p better off two years ago) we’re pissing money away like it doesn’t matter on a part-time player, paying some stupendously average footballers fortunes.
Budget my bottom (I’ll head off the “Are we paying by the yard?” joke here thanks) 🙂
We may not have £500m to blow in a season but let’s banish this budget bollocks once and for all, shall we?
Oh that’s right.. with OUR board we will always be looking to make rather than spend real money.
Hence the Arteta appointment, should it happen, with his ins and outs handled by a committee who, it seems, cannot agree on much if the board room leaks and positioning for power are anything to go by.
Fair enough, TTG.
I respect your views even if I don’t wholly agree with them.
Concerning the succession plan, I should have been clearer.
I agree that a structure has been quietly put in place behind the scenes in the last 18 months or so but it seems that there wasn’t a shortlist of managers who were identified and sounded out informally before hounding AW out of the job.
These days these things get done through numerous back channels.
The interview process that you allude to has seen Allegri and Nagelsmann publicly distance themselves from the job while Paddy says the approach made to him was perfunctory.
That is my grouse. It seems that we are making it up as we go along.
If, however, the plan has always been to fast track Arteta into management by sending him to City to apprentice Guardiola then fair shakes.
I don’t believe that to be true in the slightest.
A club of Arsenal’s status should be far ahead of the curve when it comes to managing a process as delicate and important as replacing Arsene Wenger.
They haven’t handled it very well in my opinion.
As for Arteta being the chosen one, we would just have to wait and see how he gets on if given the nod.
I will back him if he does come in but still maintain that it’s not the right time for him.
Cheers.
It certainly looks like there will be a complete revamping of the coaching staff, so that will help, but Arteta has basically got the gig because he is the cheap option who won’t demand a massive contract or a massive transfer budget. In short he will do the board’s bidding. Luis Henrique would have been a costly appointment, but we didn’t even try to negotiate a compromise deal, but walked away, because we knew there were cheaper options. As for Allegri, Jardim and the others, were we really serious about appointing someone with a proven record of success? Not when the candidates insisted that the team needed a major and costly overhaul.
We know Wenger had to go, but this very much looks like Arsenal are merely marking time instead of making progress, because the board is refusing to spend the money that’s needed to make our great club great again.
128
The truth is we can’t match the biggest spenders. That doesn’t mean that we don’t have any money as some will have you believe, it’s just that relative to the heavy weights, it’s a pittance. They are so out of our league they may as well be playing a different sport.
The only way we can keep up is by being creative in the market and getting value for money.
ATG @126
There will always be only one Arsene Wenger. I will remain eternally grateful to the man.
I also agree with you on supporting whoever comes in.
The thing though is that we can get the right person to come in.
This is no time to experiment.
TTG touches on the key point here in his @127. We are not hiring a manager, but a coach. And that is the yardstick Arteta (or anyone else) needs to be measured against. It may well be that we can’t get an Allegri because he would want the full authority a manager would have traditionally had, and that is no longer on offer.
Actually, we’re hiring a head-coach, which means he’ll be picking the first-team and man-managing the first-team squad (apologies for stating the obvious, but sometimes …) , and presumably having some input into signings, as well as selecting which youth players get pushed up into the first-team squad etc.
And whatever you think of him, Arteta undoubtedly represents an enormous risk – he might turn out to be a managerial/first-team coach genius (if they appoint him) – but no-one on here can honestly claim to know much about him re that lark; fukkit Arteta doesn’t even know for sure what sort of manager/first-team coach he might turn out to be, because, ahem – he hasn’t been one yet (apologies for stating the obvious, but sometimes …)
Now where’s that coffee ???
This club has been drifting for so long it needs a statement of intent when it appoints its next manager/coach/yes man.
The statement of intent I get from this is – top six, hope for top four, above all keep things nice and comfy. And cheap.
We should be appointing someone whose name says “We are winning the league next season, if not this”
I did do Arteta a small disservice above when I said Rodgers was the only other name more underwhelming than him. I forgot about Faria.
So we can’t match the biggest spenders eh. Does that include Spurs, supposedly weighed down by a stadium project that’s spiralled to over £1m, and who will probably spend a hefty chunk of money this summer. Liverpool’s owners aren’t worth as much on paper as Kroenke, and their cash is as much tied up in their other sporting franchises etc. but who have already secured their first summer signing.
Are we now admitting that we are no better than a top six club for the foreseeable future? Well, that’s not what I signed up for when I renewed my gold membership last week.
I’d love to see a stadium costing £1m. On the local rec probably! Of course I meant £1 billion.
Fat Sam was fired, that’s a good start
to the day.
As for the new coach – to me appointing
Arteta says “it’s a risk but we know the
man’s quality and we believe he’s worth
the risk”. Anyway, each to their own of
course. Whoever we appoint from the
various candidates has pros and cons*,
just appoint him by the end of May please
so he can get on with preparing for next
season.
* Except Rogers, he has no pros. Oh, and
thanks Cynic, neither does Faria.
you can project whatever you like onto a blank canvas
If you intend to project Catwoman onto it, get tae fuck.
Hmmm… go on Everton. Steal Arteta… 🙂
If Arteta is the solution I dont know what the question is.
We follow the greatest manager in our history by hiring someone with zero game management. cant understand this one. hope this is just a rumour.
so Wenger lowered expectations so much that we are comfortable at 6th in the table and an occasional 4th?
” Am wondering whether putting one’s own giddy thoughts in quotation marks might be a sign of the onset of social media madness? ”
” Who said that? ”
” What? Errrrr, no-one, it was only a thought ”
” Well that’s OK then, I think ”
” Well, thank you ”
” Well noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, thank you ”
” Well no, no, noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, no, no-neeeeeee, no-neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, no, no. Thank yoooooooooooooooou ”
” We need to stop this now ”
” We ”
” You know what I mean ”
” OK “
I don’t have much interest in international football mainly because I’m English and we have an uninspiring and mundane current group of players managed by an uninspiring and mundane current manager. I will try to watch our games in Russia but there may be only three. I’m disappointed for Jack because in this crop of uninspiring and mundane players he is well worth a place. He had a far from stellar season but played well in Europe and had some very good matches. I thought he was outstanding against Chelsea in the league at our place but he didn’t score much and possibly wasn’t helped by the range of players around him in our squad.
Southgate is guilty of extraordinarily two-faced reasoning. At the start of the season he dropped Jack because he wanted players who were playing regularly for their clubs and then picked Solanke and Abraham who weren’t playing for theirs! He then removed him from the squad a few weeks ago, we hear because he couldn’t keep up with the others in training. I don’t buy that – he hasn’t shown signs of flagging in the league, in the Burnley game he played very well and maybe he had a slight injury in the last squad. But he has played a lot of matches this season. Lallana and Loftus-Cheek are likely to be picked and they’ve been injured for yonks.
Ironically Welbeck will probably go and he’s been injured much more and in my view isn’t as good as Jack. It doesn’t really matter, this is the poorest squad we’ve probably ever sent to a World Cup and will get nowhere. We will then sack Southgate and rehire Allardyce . Who really gives a toss?
On our situation I’m really struggling with the budget of £50 m. If you do the sums over a three year period we have well-matched incomings and outgoings. Over the last season we had a surplus in the summer and in the winter window acquired Auba , swapped Mkhi and Sanchez and signed Mavropanos. But we sold Theo , Coquelin and Giroud for about the same amount as we brought in. Wages have gone up substantially but we are clearly missing the CL cash( most of which wenever spent anyway) . It’s not going to be possible to compete with the big teams on those budgets.
Jack probably shot himself in the foot by pulling out of those two England games. Once he did that, he was as good as cooked, goose-wise.
The 50m is just a media story and
we’ve, or me anyway, have
no idea if it’s true.
If we do get to the bottom of it I
expect it will be Ozil’s fault.
“that is what I say to myself in my more
lucid moments” when I’ve stopped er er
er er error error
maybe wee Gazidis is a Machiavellian geniarse after all … no, really, hear me out …
So far, if rumours are to be believed (and hey, when are they ever wrong???) he may’ve unsettled the vital second in commands at ‘Pool, MankyU and now Shitty – in the process doing potentially profound & irreparable damage to their cozy set-ups, preseason.
Mission accomplished, wee Gazi swoops in and goes something like – “s’long suckahs i gave the job to … Bouldie – he knows the club, he’s been a head-coach (with the under-wassername set-up) , he knows the under-wassername set-up, he’s cheap, he’s already here, he ratted the old manager out to me re half the first-team’s attitude towards him these days – so it’s his … or Pardew’s – we haven’t quite decided yet”
But who knows – i may’ve gone & gotten the wrong end of a stick two.
Thanks, Holic, for the final, ultimate post bar none of this most tiring of seasons. I’ve only just had tine to read it and begin to catch up with the drinks.
Your restraint and positivity in writing up some pretty dire performances has been remarkable.
N7 – superb post, way back now but no less excellent for that.
And now for the rest of the drinks – and plenty of them there are !
Even one or three of almost sermonly length from The Rev…..
Pardon, forgot to dip me “oar” in earlier – over!
Oi, oi Trev.
What Trev said at 147, H.
It’s too sunny to be stuck indoors in this here saloon…..
You should open a beer-garden.?
The Goonerholic Beer Garden cctv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOv2cUv4gcU
Which one is cba?
Come on Marseille!
Atletico 2-0, Griezmann on a hat trick with 30′ left. Payet off injured for Marseille.
Oh what should have been….
Marseille is struggling big time how did they get into this final!?
Marseille are totally outclassed. If only Koscielny and Bellerin had defended properly.
Atletico are a decent , very well- drilled side. Pity we didn’t sign Griezmann when we had the chance in 2014 .
Marseille? How disappointing a side as poor as them should reach the final
Our first team should be kicking themselves for not burying the first leg of the semi-final.
Agreed TTG,
They are very well setup from attack to defense it’s almost like discipline everyone has to put in an 110% shift, they can be very dramatic too something they picked up from other Spanish giants.
They are also an experienced side, we lacked belief and there was discipline amongst our ranks…
*no discpline
Another sixty sixer rides off into the sunset.
One of the unsung heroes that every successful team seems to have.
Buried plenty in his after football life.
Atletico Madrid have so much that Arsenal need. Discipline. Tenacity. Consistency. Simeone may not be the individual people like but he has implanted an ethic of success in the club. There are probably other executives at the club who also deserve credit for the same, and Arsenal should definitely sit up and take notes.
Pressing and high energy levels to the end, too.
to quote cba,
…
I tried multitasking, once.
…, not the other one.
Off to see Ray Parlour tonight, so hopefully lots of tales to tell tomorrow.
Rumours that Thierry is now being interviewed. He ticks less boxes as a coach than Arteta but might make a good assistant . But he might find it a position beneath him.
no news is good news they say
that was before trump though
now we don’t know what he could be up to
twittering or not twittering
pretty much all bad news either way
end of interlude and back to regularly scheduled program
Hey ‘holic and tag
Why doesn’t Ray Parlour stage a coup then?
tag=ttg
everyone that’s ever tugged on a jersey
being interviewed it seems
i’m going for Andy Linighan to get the late nod
topical jokes
I FACKIN LUV EM
Much has been made recently about the new structure at the club with Sven Mislintat as Head of Recruitment and Raul Sanelhi in his new role. I can’t remember exactly what it’s called. I was wondering how much change there has actually been. As far I know, Sven joined when Steve Rowley left as Chief Scout and Raul’s arrival coincided with Dick Law’s departure. Have we just replaced like with like or have their jobs changed a lot too? I would be grateful for clarification from those of you more in the know than I am, TTG! I like what I have seen so far.
I don’t know exactly how a transfer works but I’m guessing that the manager says we need another centre back, for example, and then it’s up to the club, ie Sven and Raul to see who is available, contact agents, etc, etc. I can’t imagine Arsene did all that himself before, surely others did. I can’t imagine Arsene ever being told that the club is buying Fred Bloggs whether you like it or not, but I can imagine a Head Coach being told that. It looks like Conte was told that at Chelsea regarding Ross Barkley and Danny Drinkwater who he has consequently hardly picked for the team. Not a situation we want to see at our club. I could be talking bollocks of course.
Lacazette not selected for the World Cup squad. Not really a surprise
The upside is will be a relatively rested squad come the start of the new season, and plenty of time for the new manager/coach to work with it.
Devon Stu@175: agents make transfers complicated; so do other commercial considerations. This is a useful background read: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-window-premier-league-revealed-how-a-transfer-deal-really-works-a7837031.html
Stepanovs. I’ll say no more. The Romford Pele, and God would you believe, have much to answer for.
Arteta? Vieira would be more deserving seeing as he is a really coaching a team.
Neither are ready IMO.
Ancelotti is there waiting for the call. I do hope that the board ain’t trying to be too clever with this appointment. Like Arteta could be Arsenals Pep.
Jardim is another decent shout.
N7 Gooner. Thanks for that great post.
Devon Stu
My sense is that it is a very new structure with much more power concentrated in Gazidis. Arsene seemed to have a veto on transfers but now Sanllehi does tge negotiations after Mislintat identifies the players. Gazidis played a big part in signing Aubameyang and is now based at Shenley not Highbury House.
It’s a very continental structure with a coach preparing tte team and not having to do a lot of the stuff Arsene did . My big query is what input Arteta or whoever has into the players we buy and the positions we strengthen .
It means that instead of one Arsene we have a DOF from Barcelona, the spotter of talent from Dortmund and will have a coach with responsibility for team performance
Hope that helps.
Thanks for that North Bank Ned, an interesting and informative read. I’ve now decided to become an agent!
I know Stepanovs is shorthand for shit defender (in a way Mustafi will be for this generation) but I can actually remember him having decent games.
Occasionally.
One notable one against Chelsea.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcsport_david?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/44165995?__twitter_impression=true
Re: TTG @181. Is to highlight the continental aspect of our new management structure not to point out the incontinental aspect of our defending in recent seasons?
Just finishing up a lovely 2 week stay in the Fantastic country that is Namibia and as for the people big big love ! Met a few Arsenal on the way too, So it seems it’s Arteta then – Big decision ! which will either prove to be a stroke of genius or a steaming pile of shit 🙂 To be fair he’s long been spoken of as management material and hopefully will bring some fresh ideas. Gazidis must be sure as this is his show now and his bollocks finally and firmly on the chopping board ! Exciting if slightly nervous times ahead !
Up The Arse.
Darren Brown appointed West Brom manager. On merit, I might add.
Thanks TTG @181. In theory the system could work well. I’m guessing the three key figures would meet regularly to discuss progress and which positions need strengthening.
King GT@185: The most telling line in that Ornstein link is:
A prospective concern for Arsenal’s hierarchy is that with power comes accountability and the removal of Wenger strips them of a shield that had provided such robust protection for so long.
When Ornstein writes, ‘a prospective concern’, I think we can take it that that is biggest fear of those earning the big bucks.
I also suspect Ornstein has it wrong when he suggests that There was sufficient clamour for change so the new man will be given a fair crack. In these febrile times, the mob will be baying for instant success.
TTG@181 and Devon Stu@188: I would not be surprised if the new set-up doesn’t evolve into something more akin to the American pro sports model than the continental one. In that, the General Manager rules supreme over all sporting matters — who gets hired and fired as head coach, which players get drafted and traded, and what contracts players get. In baseball, they also get to decide who gets called up from the farm teams to ‘the Big Club’ and who gets sent down. It is a more powerful version of the director of football role in many regards. Gazidis will be familiar with it from his MLS days and the Kroenkes will know it from their NFL, NBA and NHL teams.
The Romford Pele. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>