Another Big Game Hunt Ends With The Prey Victorious
Dec 13th, 2010 by 'holic
Five defeats in seventeen games, and in this craziest of all Premier League seasons we are still second in the table. Looking back at the first four they caused so much anger. But half an hour after the final whistle and I am not feeling that same emotion.
This was not us being outplayed, as we were against West Brom. This was not about us being tactically outsmarted, as we were against Newcastle. We were not out muscled in the key moments as we were at the bus stop in Fulham, and we didn’t throw it away as we did against the neighbours. Tonight we lost a point because what little luck there was went the way of the hosts. Two huge sides cancelled each other out, but a huge slice of good fortune decided it in the end.
I know that won’t be the reaction in a couple of other places, but frankly I don’t much care about that either. I joined in the near universal condemnation of the side earlier in the season, but despite what was force-fed to me in the Sky commentary tonight I was more than convinced that the side had given everything. I had wondered before tonight if United are the real deal this season. On that evidence I have to say yes.
The team selections suggested that United were ready to play the usual rope-a-dope game against Arsenal, inviting us on and breaking at pace. There was an element of that but from early doors they were attempting to play in our half of the pitch, which I think surprised us and caused us not to get going from the first whistle. It has to be said they were helped by some pretty shoddy distribution from the ‘S’ men. Song, Sagna, and the debut boy, Szczesny, were guilty of cheaply surrendering the ball in the opening half an hour, but all three held their nerve and improved.
The decision to keep Rosicky central, Nasri right, and Arshavin left, seemed to rob us of the element of surprise when the three interchange freely. I don’t know if that was a result of a deliberate decision to be more tactically disciplined, but I thought it the reason for us not really looking like opening up the United defence in the first-half. The punishment, when it came, was harsh. Nani found a fortunate deflection from Clchy and Park found the unlikeliest of headed finishes. It was pure bad luck, if you are an Arsenal supporter, and good fortune if you follow United. No more, no less.
A big plus in the opening half I thought was our defensive organisation, particularly when United did try to spring the quick break. It was clear in the second half we would need to be more inventive and determined in attack. We were close to that, but not close enough, and it was perhaps not a surprise that the man-of the match award went to a defender in what became a war of attrition. I think it was the wrong defender.
Ferdinand’s main contribution was to rip his studs through Sagna’s shirt and into his stomach as he went for a high ball. Far more impressive I thought was Vidic alongside the absent-minded shopper. Mention of him leads to the inevitable consideration of Howard Webb. Generally I have to say I thought for once, he tried very hard not to be the star of the show himself, and his early reticence to dish out cards was commendable.
Once he did start showing them though some questions arose for me. Chamakh and Arshavin were carded for their first foul, while the aforementioned Vidic was allowed to scythe through Chamakh twice in a minute with just a ‘don’t do it again’ to show for it. I will absolve him of any blame, however, for the laughable penalty decision that always seems to go against us at Old Trafford. That was all the work of his assistant, who just plain lied when he signalled that Clichy had paddled the ball away. Rooney’s miss owed something to Master Szczesny’s imposing frame in front of him I’m sure.
The two came face to face again when Rooney attempted to chip the young Pole, who found the required save. He will look back on his first Premiership appearance with mixed feelings, no doubt. He is raw, still learning, but he certainly offers an imposing barrier to opposing forwards. He will also acknowledge the excellent work of Koscielny and particularly Squillaci, in front of him. It was certainly a night for defenders.
For the main part, it was Arsenal who controlled the ball as they sought the equaliser, There was a familarity though about the inability to find that killer final ball against the best packed defences. The introduction of Walcott gave United something else to think about, but van Persie and the skipper looked well off the pace as we tried a last throw of the dice. We have to hope that Wilshere, who hobbled off, will make a speedy recovery.
I have to close with both a handshake for the winners, who contributed to a fascinating if not scintillating match, and brickbats for the pondlife who follow them. The vile chant again got several airings against the express wishes of their manager. United have a team that will surprise a few this season I think, but sadly a sizeable minority of scumbags in their support will not. Some things never change.
Still the FA will turn a blind eye.
217 Responses to “Another Big Game Hunt Ends With The Prey Victorious”
We were deserted by our club today.
thank you ‘holic for the excellent summery.
And hope holicdad is well again.
Cheers and a pint.
first
Fuck, I never win when it’s manure…
Cheers, Holic. I had very much the same reaction after this one as you- quick spit on the ground for ManU’s endless luck, and feel ready for the rest of the season. We dominated the second half, and while far from our most fluid (until Fabregas came on, I must add having acknowledged him previously for not playing so well), we looked ready for the challenge. I think this game was much more about the points then the ‘Clash’, if you will. Three dropped, more to come. And I hope Szczesny, RVP, and Fabregas start every game for the rest of the season.
Pint o’ black, if you will. Up the Gunners!
It’s hard to believe that our opponents (who have won the League more recently than we have) out worked us, fought for top of the table and showed more desire for the three points. It was an gutless and scared performance by the team and our manager. I am deeply disappointed ..almost furious. It’s difficult to keep faith in the face of all the contrary evidence.
Same old Arsenal, all the possession and no end product. Are we really so one dimensional that a team can effectively sit back and defend agsinst against us for 45 mins by holding a line along the 18 yd box. No effective shots from distance, no getting to the bye line to cause problems just slingin hopeful balls from wide towards the one man in their box or tippy tappy on the D until we are dispossessed. All too depressing in it’s constant repitition.
On the upside, I think Sczezney looks the real deal and the defence looked more solid.
A large Fullers Porter please to take the sour taste way!
In a close title race like these, away games against the other challengers we can afford to drop. It’s the lost points at home (you know the ones) that will kill us in the end.
I think they looked shaky at the start but settled, and both teams gave the ball away a lot. A few slightly short back passes to Szczesny probably did nothing to settle his nerves (if he had any).
I think our team has all the technical ability in the world. Even Clichy, on the balance, had Nani’s measure many, many times. Just really needed someone to stand up and put their stamp on the game, and it never came.
Just not sure what to think of this team this year. I’ve been fairly optimistic that ‘one more year, one more year’ they’ll be ready. I think this should be their year, they should be ready now. There’s still plenty of time left though.
KUNG FU IS NOT ALLOWED IN THESE DAYS
The rule is if you go with you feet is a card
First haks shit, second way better and like in the last drinks if anyoen can’t see it than I have my doubts… it wasn’r exactly “training censter” staff? was it now?
Holic, pretty good summing up but we weren’t unlucky. With the goal yes, but that apart we were horribly predictable and didn’t really have a shot in anger. Over 90+ minutes. United had several clear cut chances so you can’t really say we were unlucky. Last year we were but this time out we were well beaten, despite the scoreline.
apologies about the spellings! too many vodkas!
Well said holic.
I think the positive’s to take from this game is our boys fair kicked the shit out of Fletcher, the undead looking c*nt. That and our defenders looked good for a change. We were unlucky to concede how we did but United (sh1t) looked the more aggressive side offensively. I thought we only looked dangerous, to a degree, when Walcott came on. Which leads me on to my first question:
Why does Wenger give a player who’s so effective so little time on the pitch? Especially when Arshavin was his usual ineffective self. For all his gallic genius Wenger’s still a frigging numpty when it comes to subs. In my opinion anyway.
What did everyone think of Fletcher’s first half near assault of the ref? I thought Webb bottled that one. Anyway, like you say, it was luck that intervened on the day.
Seems to me because there are pages and pages of blogs and social media sites to fill we have to follow the mood.
If we lose we are shit, right? Well, no, that isn’t actually always the case, but don’t tell the knee-jerking cunts that.
I was seething after Newcastle and the LWC’s, as most here will know, but for fucks sake, we just got edged by a freak goal at the home of the club most likely to deny us the title this season. Have a look at yourself.
Great summary holic. We played with a lot of heart and will take some positives from this.
Now for my last Bitch how the hell people like Fletcher get away from a RED card?
If this was a foreign referee Fletcher would be Off in instant and Rooney for his antics….
WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE REFS IN THIS GAME!???????????????
And yes, iSnail, you are right.
I couldn’t believe I didn’t imagine it, so didn’t mention it, or Rooney’s double ‘fuck off’ outburst at the assistant who flagged for a clear foul on Clichy early doors.
Generally though I don’t think Webb was as bad as we have seen him.
I’d have happily taken a point and nil nil tonight, for all their chances they only found the net with a flimsy half chance. We may nit have been the better side on the night but we were only marginally worse. They were also one dimensional one trick ponies.
Arthur,
Let me have the rest of that vodka mate 😉
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Hahahahahahaha,
Only the Independent could headline “Fletcher’s combination of steel and self-control”
Myopic Cupid Stunts!
Sorry guys but this game it’s loosing it’s grounds to me…..
Webb and the rest of the FUCKING co are making for all it is!
Holic plenty left for you my man! 🙂
If it was an Arsenal player givign a budge to a REF like that can you imagine?
I’m sorry the FA are saying Fifa are fixed but what about the FA?
You must have been pleased for Woj, Arthur. Survived a shaky start and got stronger and stronger, I reckon.
Let’s concentrate on the positives.
I’m proud of the lads and I dont think we have lost this game beacuse we were shit, Fernidand Kungfu fighting spoke for itself!
Holic
I was scared when he didn’t connect with those back passes but for a game like this I think he came on TOP!
Guys
It pains me we lost but we wasn’t that shit!
Time to lift pur spirits! We have MrFucklis on the weekend!
Come on YOU REDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the end he most certainly did, Arthur.
Why Lukasz was on the bench though is another story entirely, I reckon.
Credit for battling but I’m wondering if the handbreak will ever come off? We have played some good football over the last two years but where is the arsenal of 2008 that looked deadly at every second? I’m not sure if it’s confidence or what but I haven’t seen that type of football in a while for us. The vollarral away game was a glimpse and so was barca second half at home. I think it’s a confidence and belief issue and I’m not sure how to address it
Nice write up holic and valid points at 14. What I would say is that for me it is a lot of the same old failings. A distinct lack of width kills us. No team has to defend wide. So they can pack the centre and sit on the 18 yard line. It is like watching a handball game at times as we look to try and force an opening. We created very little of any purpose.
There goal was a fluke. I have no idea why Alan Smith was going on about it for so long. Nani’s shot was deflected and Park just tried to get something on it. If he telly you he was placing it where it ended up then he is lying.
All that said we created virtually nothing. I do not remember one save of note from Van Der Sarr. I must admit that after the first 10 mins of the second half I just could not see us scoring. I thought we liked clueless and devoid of all ideas.
Positives for me was the way we defended. I thought that Song was far more responsible today and offered a far better screen to the back 4. I was worried before the kick off how our 2 centre backs would perform, but both performed admirably. Clichy still worries me. For all the good he does he is prone to make some real howlers. Can someone let him know where row Z is and that it is not a crime to try and plant the ball there once in a while. The other big positive for me was the form of Sczezney. I thought he fitted in well and looked solid.
One last point. I really do not get all of the posts that basically say, never mind, other teams have dropped points. I really do think that is the wrong way to look at things. We are the Arsenal. We should be good enough without having to snipe at our competitors as they drop points. Let us get our own game right and let the others worry about us for a change.
Was he really? I wasn’t even aware of that perhaps Wenger will do some cruel business in Jan
God knows
Anyway I dont feel down at all tonight it was a freak goal!
Holic….hope your dad is feeling better!
Nasri looked much better in the second! Also I thing they clash him and Cesc!
Can I also just say that I do not think Webb had a bad game. Yes me made odd mistakes but I think it is wrong to start blaming him for the fact that we lost tonight. It seems like we are searching for excuses that are not really there.
Nicely put Steve,
I know you are inclined to be more critical than I, but you always explain why sensibly. You have some points I would find difficult , but not impossible 😉 to argue.
Just some stats on the game can you believe we got 4 yelloes they got 0?
And agreed about Webb entirely, which is why I wanted to start the discussion. He has cost us dear before, but tonight was just guilty of human fallibility I reckon, and he didn’t head the bleeding winner 🙁
Steve T you always make it tough and saldy I cant argue 🙂
Holic
Nice post mate – hope your dad is doing well !
Agree with you about woj – I’ve no doubt his size upset roo and if Lukas groin was as bad as they say then he wouldn’t be on the bench. I think woj will play until January and then arsene will make a call on a keeper.
Defense looked much better and your right the goal was a fluke – but we still managed to cough up more chances than we created.
While I think manure are not as technically talented as the team arsene has assembled – they work harder and want it more!
Love you guys will get some rest now!
I am critical holic but I don not want to be. It is only because for me it is the same old failings. I know I bang on about width but not that long ago we would break with the likes of Pires, Henry and Freddie etc. Their pace would push the play wide. That pulls defenders all over the place and creates far more space in the middle. We did it for years. We now play with a 5 man midfield, all of whom want to play the quarterback role. My opinion is that alot of teams know how to defend against this now. I do think we are weak at the back but today we looked fine there. I thought that we defended well.
I just feel that there are quite a few that look for excuses when really we should be looking at ourselves a bit. I hate to admit it now but I really did not expect to get anything out of the game before we started. It pains me to say that. It really does.
Yes that was a lucky goal, but Fergie got his tactics right once again. Reminded me of Chelsea home last season where they just sat back and waited for a mistake.
Fergie targets Clichy each time they play us, and Nani got past him for the goal, and the penalty, although harsh, was from his handball.
Van Persie still looks way off the pace to me.
Pint of something that numbs the senses please.
iSnail, I completely forgot about the hobgoblin trying to dry hump the ref. I was shocked he didnt get a yellow and as for Rooney, well the bloody pickpocket seems to be able to get away with owt. It was funny watching him have a tantrum though.
I know we lost but tonight I thought we finally looked like we had a bit of grit to us. Let’s see if our attack can pick itself up and our defense can play that good every game.
I guess the other reason holic is that it frustrates the hell out of me…… Drives me nuts.
“I joined in the near universal condemnation of the side earlier in the season…….” I’m very glad that you added the “near” ‘Holic”. I would have felt a strong need to award our blogger a straight red had that little adverb been missed (smile).
Super post though. Very balanced and fair with some very nice builds from the shell by Mr Snail. For sure. a moment of good fortune turned the direction of the points.
You are a little more positive over the deeply indebted than me. I thought we showed them too, too much respect – and also looked surprisingly nervy (particularly Sagna) and unassertive (particularly Samir), for the first 30 minutes. Man IOU were there for the taking tonight. The hand brake was pretty well ratcheted up for the first hour.
Impressive first big test for our new keeper. I’d put Kos (he’ll be a legend soon) ahead of Squil. Great defense and his distribution coming forward was an example to those around him. Ironically, our weakness tonight was our lack of ability to create telling chances.
When I saw the Cesc and Robin Show appearing on the line, I honestly thought we’d run on to win. It quickly became apparent why neither had started the game though, and between them, I can’t really think of one telling contribution to the contest.
We were worth a point at least. It’s all still to play for. If we’re within spitting distance after New Year, this will be our year.
Frustrated today but victorious tomorrow. Victoria Concordia Crescit and they don’t say it for nothing mates.
Good summary ‘Holic. I thought there were a few positives to take from the game despite the defeat. The keeper and central defenders did well. They were unlucky not to keep a clean sheet. It is promising for the next couple of big games.
Did anyone notice the assistant ref couldn’t hide his excitement when Clichy handled the ball ?
TV5. I noticed that the lino indicated that Clichy had scooped the ball back with his arm when nothing even close to that happened.
Nice write up holic.
I too do not feel the same disappointment as the other bad results.
Surely Fletcher pushed Webb during his tantrum?
I also thought the first of Rooneys FO’s was a FO u C?
Ho hum.
Can’t wait to smash the mother out of Pulis’s plonkers come saturday 🙂
Lucky goal yes but we were shit all day. Several players much worse than others but shit as a unit. Wilshire and Chamakh were equally dissapointing but Clichy proved once again today that he didn’t belong on the pitch. Our defense is sub par mostly because of our LB. I would like to see Vermealen at LB when he gets back and Djourou at CB but Wenger doesn’t believe in change. AW just can’t win Big games anymore to save his life. Its gotten really tired.
Steve T’s comment about the handball looking game is spot on.
We just can not seem to break down tough defenses and couldn’t do it today either. If we don’t play with width we HAVE to have a player who can create a killer pass. Unfortunately only Cesc can and in his absence we seem to have loads of possession with nothing to show for it..
Shattered but not losing hope, I truly believe this group of players will do something really special.
Rarely did Arshavin and very rarely did Nasri have only the fullback to take on. Manure got their midfielders back almost every time. Compare with Clichy. He is one on one against Nani 6 or 8 times per half! Clichy did well. He doesn’t get the support. The thing is though, he mostly doesn’t need it. Mostly.
sad beyond words. This was my NLD.
The Clichy handball penalty was as pathetic as decision as you could expect from a ref at OT .
Fucking bastards.
Comendable summary Holic to a rather frustrating but revealing match! I agree with BtM, ManUre had not intention of risking a loss to us tonight and would have more than settled for a point before kick-off – this being clearly evident by the tactics employed which are usually the domain of the visiting team and not those of the self-proclaimed “entertainers”! Let’s not be blinded and fooled by the defeat and the anti-Arsenal vitriole that will follow from the “media gurus”! ManIOU are a good, workman-like side and not the side that will win the epl or champion’s league this year (just ask Rooney for his honest opinion)! If attacked with width and pace or guile, they are very susceptible! Umfortunately, tonight once again showed our offensive impotence; which is sadly becoming to common an occurrence! Could Arsene actually be at fault?! Viagra may not be necessary however, a formal change wrt formation, expressed directly from the management at an appropriate in-game period, i.e. perhaps reverting back to our old 442 or 433, may assist our young players if they lack the aptitude and cutting edge against such stubborn and introverted opponents?!
Blame the ref, blame the pitch, blame the opponents excessive facial hair.. If only just once AW would say “we lost because i fielded 11 smurfs & I don’t really have a tactical plan to begin with. But I adore my smurfs, they look so adorable don’t they?”
sometimes I wish these smurfs would spend less time talking crap about how they’re gonna approach the game & actually turn up for the game.
You can’t call the team lazy after this performance. They battled but didn’t get it done. Simply not enough swagger and confidence to win in old trafford. If we buy someone its vital he has this
Gutted.
But not as bad as it would have been as we wasn’t outplayed or outfought.
Credit to Song who was finally disciplined enough to stay back to mop up and cover our defence.
Better display from Squillaci and Kochelsny
Brave effort by Szczesny not to be over-rawed by the game.
Overall, a more discipline performance by the team defensively (good to see Arshavin rushing back to cover Clichy when he lost possession upfront). Too bad, we couldn”t find the right balance and affected our offensive firepower.
An unfortunate goal (against us).
When will we ever get a proper set of match officials who will not be so intimidated by the atmosphere? Terrible decisions – penalty that was not to be, Ferdinand’s flying kick, Fletcher hooligan-sholving of Webber, etc etc.
I think teams are quickly realizing that karate kicks are not significant fouls in Webb-officiated games…
I was too nervous to watch as I feared the worst. But after finding out the score at the end of the first half, I thought the bad news had already been priced in, and so decided to watch the rest of the game.
What I saw were two fairly evenly matched teams that did not play well. Losing 0-1 away at Old Trafford is not terrible. Now, if that result is not reversed at The Emirates, that would be pretty bad. We did not get to see a smoothly flowing Arsenal team (I do wonder if that evil bastard did indeed have the pitch violated prior to the game), but the defense was sound. My impression of Clichy was also a lot more charitable that most others here. I also don’t think that this team is physically intimidated by Manchester United.
Overall, I think this is a fine, solid team with an outside chance of winning. I know we all want more, and have that instantaneous solution that Wenger just can’t seem to get. But for now, I’ll continue to hitch my wagon to him over armchair managers.
Disappointed but not distraught.
Yup! ManU only won because of luck. Yup! Just lucky… Thats all! Yup!….
We played better in the second half, but I love a barnstorming start to a match, and it was frustratingly missing. They were too damn nervous. Wilshere looked good, but Song was giving it away (although his defending was good later on), Arshavin was poor, Rosicky wasn’t up for it, Nasri couldn’t get a touch (although he came into it in the second half).
We were ok in defense. I like Woj. Clichy wasn’t as bad as the highlights would suggest.
Arsene definitely got it wrong going with Arshavin ahead of Walcott. If Arshavin were making the team selection, I doubt he would even give himself a spot on the bench. Couldn’t Arsene tell he wouldn’t be up for it. With both him and Rosicky contributing very little, it was a frustrating first half.
We need a run of wins.
Gooner4, is that your opinion or sarcasm? If the latter, it never works in written communications.
BTM – Do you follow any other discussion boards?
I thought we defended pretty well. For all their ‘shots-on-target’ they weren’t that threatening – with their winner more fluke than skill despite what Andy Gray thinks.
What was disappointing was our ineffectiveness up front. Nasri was hardly in the game, and Chamakh barely had a sniff – though neither did Rooney.
Maybe, for once, this was more about Man U’s defence than our front line.
Overall, a cold, nervous, dull thud of a match.
It could have been so much more.
Ps. Gibbs for Clichy as soon as possible, and more games for Szczesny.
@Renoog … Don’t smurfs play in blue? I’m sure I read somewhere even their away strip is blue.
I think you mean munchkins.
I’m disappointed with a lot of what I saw from the boys tonight. Not panicked, not rampaging, not calling for anyone’s head or demanding wholesale change. But definitely disappointed.
Young Wojciech’s distribution made me nervous at times, but all in all it’s hard to find much to criticize about his performance, especially given the opponent and the venue. Clichy had some great moments, some beautiful steals, but in typical Clichy fashion too many of them were followed by mistakes that left us vulnerable. I really like Clichy, but he needs to sort it out, fast. The centerbacks had their moments but were better than they’ve been, and I thought Sagna was much better than most people seem to have felt. Our inability to get anyone else at all wide forced him to do a lot. Song was alright, Jack was good, Nasri had a rough evening but he had three or four red shirts on him as soon as he got a touch, and the rest of the team seemed content at times to stand around expecting him to win the game for them. As a whole though, felt like the midfield was way too narrow and made themselves easier to defend in the middle of the pitch. Rosicky was meh, same with Chamakh, but the latter seemed like was always either way too far back or left by himself in the box, both of which were frustrating (and not necessarily his fault.) But Arshavin…I don’t even know what to say. He just gives the ball away so much. So, so much. Moments of genius, but sometimes I wonder how worthwhile it is. As for Cesc…either he’s fit and starts, or he’s nowhere near the bench, as far as I’m concerned. Putting him out before he’s ready like that just seems like a pointless risk.
United’s goal may have been fortuitous, and I thought they were pretty shit too tonight, but it doesn’t change that we weren’t good enough. Without question, not good enough.
Webb was bad, but he was bad for everyone and I don’t think it really impacted the outcome. The karate kick was pretty absurd, though.
I love Wenger, I really really do…but I don’t ever want to hear him talk up the team again. And I don’t want to hear excuses after the match either. It’s not helping anyone, and it’s really frustrating. Let them prove it themselves, on the pitch. And after games like tonight, it might be healthy for them to have to swallow the reality that they lost because they weren’t good enough. That sort of accountability is part of how they ‘grow up’ as players.
And lastly, I read somewhere that Ferguson asked the United supporters in his notes and on TV not to participate in the Drogba-esque (because it’s a fucking disgrace) chant about Wenger and that le Prof ‘deserves better.’ If that’s true, I give the man respect for it, that shows class. And of course, it makes all the jackasses that ignored him look even more classless in comparison.
Some interesting themes rumble around continuously after every defeat.
“We should play like we did in the days of Henry, Pires, Dennis…”
Generally speaking, world-class players differentiate winning teams. Thierry alone “won” many games for Arsenal that would otherwise have been gallant draws or defeats. I think we have four world-class players at the moment. Two started on the bench. One is wearing a boot and the other was surprisingly timid for the first 30 minutes tonight.
Liverpool probably wish they played like they did in the days of Dalglish and Rush. Man IOU in the days of George Best, Bobby Charlton. Blackpool – Stanley Mathews and Spuds – Alan Gilzean. Dream on all. You either buy them (and they tend to start at 35M+) or rear them. Arsene is doing as good a job as any on the latter.
“We fielded 11 smurfs without a tactical plan and we should fire Wenger”
Can’t think of any sufficiently acerbic response other than “Fous Le Camp a Le Grove” or “Allez se foutre” as we say in Auchtermuchty (as Zico will testify).
“We don’t play with enough width…….”
One of Steve’s favourite themes. I think we have the correct intent, but inadequacy in execution. The primary wide attackers are Clichy and Sagna. Week in, week out, the midfield delivers peach passes out to these wing-backs. Unfortunately, neither can combine the fine arts of running with the ball to the line and then crossing. Come to think of it, neither can do either adequately. The finest exponents are still A Hole and Evra who give Chelski and Man IOU much of their width. So
– Should we try two new full backs? (Gibbs is a big plus in this regard over Clichy; and who remembers Eboue’s cross for Thierry’s winning header against Man IOU?)
–Or sacrifice one mid-fielder for Theo, every week on the right?
My own favourite theme is, of-course, Denilson. Say what you like, tonight’s team would have been stronger with Song as DM and Deni and Nasri feeding the front three. I thought Jack showed that he’s still only eighteen, and learning the game tonight. Poor defense and more stray passes than the Samba King makes in a full season.
This arm-chair management is pretty easy really. Isn’t it?
I’m with BtM. Denilson for President.
433 – I wrote on THA (The Hawking Arse) once and was mildly critical of the pimple picker who writes there. He doesn’t let me back on now.
Holic’s THE man. There’s no better blog in the galaxy than this one.
Like storefront said Clichy had to go 1v1 against nani several times and only come out 2nd once. Even then he got a deflection on it.. a cruel one at that.. but he tried… ran his arse off. I understand that everyone’s frustrated but focusing on Clichy is pretty harsh IMO. Like Steve said, we lacked width and that we couldn’t create any of the slick passing we’re used to watching. That’s where it all went on. I’d have loved to see nasri playing centrally with walcott out wide on the left and arshavin on the right. Many arshavin haters out there won’t admit it, but he tried and ran and busted his gut. He was one of the few players who dared to shoot from outside as well. So let’s give credit where credit’s due. His class didn’t shine through, but there was no lack of effort. I even saw him match nani on a run when clichy was caught upfield.
There was absolutely no movement in the midfield.Our entire attack is inherently dependent on the fantastic movement of arshavin, nasri, chamakh and rosicky. If you curtail that, then you’re left with obvious passes that the 3 united DMs could actually cut out.
Our pretty little passing patterns couldn’t begin to develop because predator, hobgoblin and the ghost of carrick covered most of the attacking passing options and collectively pressured the ball-carrier. This is where we needed Rosicky to stand up and use his experience and superior talent. Unfortunately he couldn’t do it on this night.
Lastly, the few chances that did fall to us came to the feet of Song. There were 2 or 3 plays when he had to make 1 final pass and just couldn’t play the right ball. I’m not sure why, but he seemed to be the one pulling the strings from midfield whereas you’d expect someone like rosicky or wilshere to make the forward passes. And when a chance did come, Chamakh just couldn’t get it over a sliding vidic to put it into the empty net.
Just wasn’t our day fellas. The season’s not over by a long shot, so please let’s stop the hating and get behind this team. Like many including holic have mentioned, there were positives to take from the game. Keep the faith.
Montreal Gunner – Song got to good positions because when he’s going forward he’s not taken seriously as the others do therefore is not marked as tight.
The problem as I see it is quite worrying and that’s the fact that we just can’t seem to break down a tough congested defense, this is not the first time we didn’t create enough against a tough defense, we didn’t create against Liverpool and Chelsea either, there was one time we did create chances and breached open a tough defense and that was City but that was when Cesc was on top of his game with killer passes.
Meaning that we might not be as dependable as we were in Cesc but in the big games we most certainly are cause we’ll have possession until next year without threatening if Cesc won’t play the big games.
City was also down to ten men. I do agree though. I haven’t seen te deadly passing of Arsenal since 2008. Those games against Milan and Liverpool in the champs league were the last time we played really really well against good competition IMO… The swagger is gone. The hand brake is on. I’m not sure what needs to be done
momoney 2 – City was down to ten men because of Cesc’s divine pass to Chamakh.
He also had a beautiful pass to Arshavin taken from him with a weird offside call.
And that’s just in the first five minutes!!!
I can only assume most of you are deluded. We were outfought, out paced. They were quicker to the ball and wanted it more when they got there. We were slow of feet and mind. We looked nervous and scared. Clichy appalling, and would our cb’s get in their team?
Another predictable performance from players who aren’t good enough against the top teams
bunch of deluded muppets..no wonder the players, the manager and the directors have no reason to buck up…as long as there are fans like u…unlucky my arse!!!!!!!!!!!
Wenger told
“Overall, you have to give credit to United’s defensive quality,”
Still he thinks good defense can win the game ??
Fuck offffffffffffff
You’re right guys, let’s buy Maxwell to replace Clichy, Ramirez to replace Song, Sakho and Mertesacker to replace our CB’s, Gourcuff to replace Cesc, Suarez to replace Chamakh, did I forget anybody?
The comments that come out of people after a loss are ridiculous, I agree that we were outfought but when a team is concentrated on sitting back and counter attack, every time they don’t concede is gonna be called “up for the fight”.
We have a very very good team, stop trying to put us down.
People calling for Arsene’s head are absolutely mental.
I dont know i feel Kosc was abs superb at the back he was given a thumbs up from rooney, and it really looked to me both the teams wanted nothing more than a draw out of this game, thier goal was a fluke and they got lucky, that’s it. Forget about us using wide players i am telling you vidic and ferdinand will defend those crosses coming in all day if they have to with ease, that’s not the way to break them down we had to do it through the center but utd defended very well there, I really think Wenger should invest in a LB, clichy was fine i mean but he was time and again being picked on, we need another defender which would make the striker switch, i remember 2 years back ronaldo was outclasses by clichy so much that he had to switch to the left, now everyone seems to throw all thier pacy wingers against clichy and they keep on trying again and again. Anyways Gibbs keeps getting injured, i really think it would be wise to play Vermalen at LB, atleast he will have the pace the distribution and the eye for goal like Ashley Cole, wouldnt be a bad option to try.
dev, I am sorry I offend you so. Of course I bow to your greater experience in the game and your long term support of this little club I have just happened on in the last year or two.
Do feel free to share your technical insight with us again please. I am honoured you took the time to communicate with us.
Long long ago when I just started playing cricket with my elder brother, given he was 7 years older than me,big, mean and ruthless I always ended up hurt(both mentally and physically) after every single game, slowly as time grew the margin of defeat reduced and soon he started winning on mere technicalities and lucky breaks but then one fine day I finally found a way around and soon we were equals. As so many of you hear want to discuss the technical issues of our players who not so long ago according to you were brilliant in the same aspects you now deride them for, I wish to let you know that, 9 out of 10 times in sport it is all about confidence, today both the teams started with the proverbial handbrake but once the bullies smelt that we were still not so confident they went for it and found a jerk goal.Please do not be fooled into thinking they outclassed us,they merely won cuz we were not sure, we need to dig out a win against these “big 2” somehow and only then will the players truly believe that they can do it. Trust me just wait for things to once fall in place against these “big” teams and one good win will change it all. Too bad it did not happen today but this cant go on forever and please remember they are yet to visit our patch next year and who knows how things will be then.There was a time when chelsea could just never win against us but all that changed very soon once they vanquished their demons, why go so far , how about our neighbors ? from where did they get the balls to even think about beating us?(not to imply they will dominate us from here on in). As my mentally retarded manure friends jump around me, I let out an all knowing smile, we will get there and my friends when we do you better run for cover.
i agree with john hawley (and his left foot). i can’t believe some of the comments on here. we are living in cloud cuckoo land. we build ourselves up time and time again only to crash when any sort of examination comes along. as graham taylor said about fifa and world cup vote ” the only surprise is that we are surprised”.
i posted when we lost to utd in jan 2010 and the same point applies here. we keep on thinking we were unlucky and we have a better team.
lets just examine that player by player
VDS (newbie looks promising , but one game ??)
rafael
Ferdinand
vidic
evra
no contest so far. a year ago sagna and tv5 made it but not now
cesc (the 2008/9 cesc, very marginal now)
anderson
fletcher
rooney
rvp
nani
this is largely on talent but significantly also on mentality/desire. nasri has the talent (as does andrey) but desire ? like anorexics desire food.
arsene has done many greta things but he oversees and tolerates this bunch of wasters. why ? because he knows he will never be fired so can indulge himself ? ffs
Thank you Holic – I thought I was going mad listening to the Sky Sports commentary. I thought we were out played first half but definitely the better team in the second. At no time did I see us shirk responsibilities and you could see the team working collectively to iron out prior year failings. Our systematic fouling was a welcome return to the give as good as we get days.
This was a vast improvement on last year and bit by bit this team is learning what it takes. I put money on us winning the league straight after the Sp**s game because I felt the first half performance was better than anything served up this year in the premiership. Now I can take heart from a battling display that shows we are also prepared to get down and dirty. Things are really looking up.
United defended brilliantly as a team last night – we have to acknowledge that – and Park’s header by the way was no fluke – pure instinct but he knew what he was trying to do – credit the lad. But we also had some major pluses – not least the two centre backs who I thought were superb and Nasri is a proper player now – here to stay.
I am now looking forward to a stunning second half of the season and am frothing at the mouth in anticipation at what we will do to the Bus Stop on the 28th.
@i don’t know anymore: “arsene has done many greta things but he oversees and tolerates this bunch of wasters. why ? because he knows he will never be fired so can indulge himself ? ffs”
Sorry mate, but that is just utter bollocks. To begin with, how can you know that he “tolerates this bunch of wasters”? How do you know what is being said at the training ground, in the dressing room or in anywhere else where the media can’t stick their microphones in?
Were we great last night? Fuck no. Were we outplayed and humiliated? Equally fuck no. Was their goal a lucky once-in-a-blue-moon thing? Absolutely.
Pint of Boddingtons, please.
Gutted..Those 9 points dropped at home could turn out to be costly..
Effectively man utd will be 5 points clear if they win the game in hand..
Positives for me
Woj
Kos
Song
Wilshere
All eleven of their players defended for their lives after getting a fluke goal. Even Nani. And park works like a madman. On the other hand we have absolutely no defensive cover for clichy. Nani was one on one so many times against Clichy. And the goal came from that side.
No matter, this team should come good some time or the other. We ll go top again next week 🙂
lars, united created five v good chances (ok one a dodgy penalty but we get those too). were we humiliated ? no. but we were top going in , we should not expect to be humiliated and the fact that we weren’t is little comfort.
of course i don’t “know” that he tolerates them, but evidence suggests he just might. he plays them game after game and wilshere and injuries apart this was same group of players that chavs and united have mugged time and time again. if he is saying anything at the training ground, they certainly ain’t listening
when you go through the sides and pick a team to win a big match would you really have more of our players than theirs ? really?
i don’t know anymore – please grow up!
harsha
good morning to you. sorry for the number of posts but just woke up 🙂
did they defend for their lives ? it was hardly last ditch, they were just very well organised. one review talking about how lifeless we were said “united, 1 down with four minutes of injury time would throw the entire kitchen and dining room at it, never mind the kitchen sink. arsenal just about had a teaspoon”. painful but good analogy
i don’t know anymore
Perhaps you should take over from Wenger ah?
arthur
now there’s a thought…
look i love the great man as much as anyone, but am i alone in being realistic ? every year we get the “next great hopefuls” only to have anew crew soon after. for years now we flatter for long periods but don’t produce when it matters. are we really making progress ? how ? lets not get emotional. how ?
i had hoped this was our year – decline of chavs and united etc. they have now had their bad patches (assuming good teams only have one) whereas we arguably have not, just some strange results in games in which we played well but lost (see mentality point in my earlier post)
“united, 1 down with four minutes of injury time would throw the entire kitchen and dining room at it, never mind the kitchen sink. arsenal just about had a teaspoon”
Whoever wrote this shyte must of watched a different game to the the one I saw!
i don’t know anymore
We are second in the league above Chelski how do you explain that?
Like most on here, I am pretty down but not out, I do think the boss changed it at the wrong time, we were just getting a foothold, and lost a bit of momentum when cesc and rvp came on, Gael tends to over complicate the simplest things, and if kos had decided a split second earlier to go for the header in the build up to their goal the undead wouldn’t have won it, and the ball would have been somewhere in their half, overall disappointed but thats why you follow a team, to revel in the victories.
arthur. amigo.
watch injury time, the ball goes in utd box twice in that time. actually make it the last 10 minutes. w eplayed at pretty much the same pace throughout. have you noticed how other teams suddenly crank it up three or four times a match ?
as arsene said they defended very well but partly because we didn’t threaten them much.
I feel slagging clichy off time and again is not fair, Just because he is a left back does not mean, every time there is activity there , he should be the only one there. Any wonders why clichy was brilliant for large parts of 07-08?..the answer is the likes of flamini,gilberto and for some part the muppet lass diarra and hleb in fairness would track back far more than what arshavin does. We had steel to add to the silk then, we were neck to neck with the best united team of the decade who just about won everything that year. The team defended together, we hustled and harried for large parts and another great sign that year was how many times we scored towards the end which only comes because of solidity behind and the knowledge that teams wont pick you off on a counter. Song is vastly improved but he needs competition and he needs to be told that he is an auxiliary wing back. For the record our results in the league that year against chelski and united were 1-0 and 2-2 at home, 2-1 and 2-1 away defeats(we scored first in both games and held our own for a large part of it.) We need to get our confidence and shape right, try something different in terms of formation and somehow pull off a good win against chelski at home, follow it up with mancity at home and then we will talk. The answer is not always to blame the manager, a blog I do not want to name sensationally said they were behind this team and believed in them yesterday but today they feel we need a new manage, an itch on your nose does not mean you cut it off, you scratch it and leave it at that.
I went to bed last night thinking that we played well but we were unlucky. Yes we were pretty much ineffective going forward but then having slept on it I now wonder if this was because utd defended well.
However I wake up this morning and according to the large majority of posts on here since last night we were awful. Now I understand it’s been 11 games since we bought one of the supposed top two and I hate losing to either as I’m surrounded by the prawn eating bastards glory supporters but come on, we played alright. Apart from Arshavin.
‘“united, 1 down with four minutes of injury time would throw the entire kitchen and dining room at it, never mind the kitchen sink.’
Nah, Man Utd one down in that situation would probably get six minutes of injury time!
I’m largely with ‘holic here, this was disappointing, but the defeats at home (and with them 7-9 points down the drain, we’d have been in the clear with those) made me far angrier.
charlie
all teams can say this. look at the points chelsea have lost. or united earlier in season. we need to wake up and ask why we can’t compete ONE ON ONE with other big teams. and its not just united and chelsea. its pressure
Well Man Utd and Chelsea can get annoyed with their own needless dropped points, I’m just looking at the games we should have won.
The best match report I have read.
Glad to have found someone who watched the same game I did 😉
Dram of Glenfiddich please, Master ‘holic.
Charlie I’m with you on that one.
West Brom, Newcast;e and LWC’s hurts more than last night to me.
maybe that’s the problem right there ? we expect to lose to big teams therefore not so disappointed ? it’s about comparing yourself with the best, guys.
I’m not nearly as depressed after this defeat as I was after the Spuds game. The truth is, we didn’t deserve anything out of this game. I thought Man Utd were average, one dimensional, workmanlike and predictable in attack, but they defended so well, put so many players behind the ball, pressed us so well that we couldn’t build any good moves, let alone provide any threat going forward. I don’t think our lads didn’t want it, or don’t have the ability to do it; I just think Fergie outsmarted Wenger tactically so as not to concede and then they just needed that little but of luck to score a fluke goal and claim the three points.
Let me say that again: we were outsmarted TACTICALLY, that’s why we couldn’t create anything, and when you don’t create any chances, you won’t score, which leaves vulnerable to a freak goal.
We have to learn how to move between the lines, interchange positions, always provide support for the man on the ball, not be afraid to play a long ball every now and then, and deliver better crosses into the box.
We also need our most creative player to be in-form (Fabregas) to dictate the tempo of the game and provide that little special moment of unpredictability and then we need our most lethal striker (RvP) in top form to score from that little chance abd not squander it.
I’m trying to be positive, and provide constructive criticism here. That wasn’t the case after the abject surrender we witnessed against the spuds which left me speechless and depressed beyond words. In a way, it was the worst defeat imaginable for me, and until we fcuk the shit out of them at WHL, I don’t think I’ll get over it.
I’m going a little off topic here..My point is, this wasn’t a soul-crushing defeat, we can bounce back, but we’ll have to be smarter next time. This Man Utd side doesn’t impress me at all, the EPL is still there for the taking.
Come on you Gunners!
Ps: typing on an iPhone, so apologies for any typos/nonsensical phrases as I’m not gonna proof-read it before posting it.
some good news this morning
Nasri has been voted French Player of the year well ahead of Evra, by former French players
Makes up in part for him having been placed on left wing with no liberty to move last night
rvp
some good points. we should however stop going on about the freak goal. they had a number of chances and one got feeling they could have created more if they wanted/needed to ? as you say they pretty much had our measure so why bust a gut as they have chavs on sunday ? remember this is “the worst united side in 15 years” and they beat us in 2nd gear ? i think they will go further than most want to admit. they have comfortably the best defence in the league when all are fit, and probably the best attack too. their midfield has been patchy lacking creativity (what they would give for cesc) which is why the emergence of anderson worries me . remember they have put in maybe 2 or three good performances so far this year and pretty much always do get stronger as the season goes on. and all this without shrek scoring – they were supposed to be a one man team ? we can all say they are one dimensional/not impressive but they keep on doing it. damn them
we need to be objective and not wallow in how good arshavin looks every 6 games or nasri being on fire against fulham.
nobody responded to me “best team of us and them”. what do you think ?
cognacgunner
do you think evra would think it made up if we had won last night and evra topped the poll? he does my head in but he is a hell of a competitor and probably the best LB in the league (with cashley).
Nasri has been our best player so far this season, it’s not just that he’s been ‘on fire against Fulham’ as you sneeringly put it.
he has been outstanding this year. i know that. but did he step up last night ?
No, but the way you put it the praise he’s had is on the basis of one performance against poor opposition. We should give praise where it’s due, even when there are other issues to be looked at.
i don’t know
re your team. i largely agree
hard to argue with all manure defence. as you say TV5 would have had a shout last year but…
midfield
cesc, yes.
nasri when he plays at his best for skill but he needs to do it in big games.
i can’t stand fletcher but he is hard to play against, something we don’t reallly have
same attack.
it is scary when you put it like that. i love our team and skill wise they are comparable but i wish they had the never say die spirit. is that ferguson or the players ? maybe its the players ferguson chooses and that may be the difference in that arsene prefers the artist. was the 1998 team an aberration or has he changed ?
charlie
fair point. but need to look beyond the trees also.
and the winner
that’s a good question. in fact a very good one. i love our team i really do but there is definitely something lacking. what would ferguson do about it ? he is probably two players away from having another great side, and largely under 25. so why can’t we ?
105 – why did Nasri play there last night – ‘cos AW told him to
Not his best position and clearly AW told him to stay there ‘cos he didnt float much all 1st half
did player of the year make up for the teams poor performance not at all, but is is recognition for him personally
Tend to disagee Holic.
Thoght we were gutless, laxy and sloppy. AA 23 just gives up when he looses the ball, which is why Clichy is so exposed.
Our manger never changes our system.Where is the power, the penetration.Chamack works hard , but i want more than that from our main centre forward.I still think we have big problems, which i know sounds silly when we are 2nd but we have already lost 5 games.I am losing faith in our manager.
chief
i agree about the power. the chavs have this in abundance and i watched highlights of old united games before this match – the goals they scored on break in ch league semi and league last season were just unstoppable.
arsene has done so much for us i don’t want to characterise it as losing faith but one needs to question what is happening. its been like this for too long now.
@BtM
Eboué should never play for us again, not in the first team anyway, and certainly not in big matches.
Some of you know my opinion on Clichy, but for once I disagree with the majority slagging him off his performance yesterday; he did his best, was shaky at times, but wasn’t as bad as he had been for most of this season. We shouldn’t let him go against Nani (the only player I actually hate in the PL) on his own. We should double-up on tricky wingers, especially against such a (wait for it) unimaginative side as Utd are this season.
I still think he’s the weak link in our defence, he offers very little going forward and I prefer Gibbs to him, but last night ge put in a decent performance for once, and I have to acknowledge that.
As for Sagna, I think he has been good this season (apart from the game at the bridge), both defensively and going forward (his crossing has improved..a lot). I just wish we had a better replacement for him than Eboué.
We didn’t play well last night, but I wouldn’t blame it on our back…That’s what I’ve tried to articulate in my previous post (n* 100)
Oh well, once a gooner…
Come on Arsenal!! We can do this 😀
Holic –
Thank you thank you thank you!
What for?
For this line…
“Tonight we lost a point because what little luck there was went the way of the hosts.”
I tried to get this through to some of our disgruntled family members last night. I do hope now the dust has settled a little and you have clarified this point again for me, we can lay this point to rest once and for all.
Oh Holic and I do love this line too…
“…but despite what was force-fed to me in the Sky commentary tonight I was more than convinced that the side had given everything…”
As for this line…
“Rooney’s miss owed something to Master Szczesny’s imposing frame in front of him I’m sure.”
I must say that I totally agree with you 200% on this one Holic. The first time I witnessed Szczesny it was during pre-season 2009 where faced with another penalty being taken against him, he carried out the same actions, star jumps, insulting the players mother (heh maybe, maybe not) but it worked in the same way where the player skied the ball. Just in the same way as mad Lens. Also his confidence between the sticks should not go unmentioned.
It was the usual showing at OT when faced with a pacey talented Arsenal squad. Controversy and robbery
Holic a Cappuccino for myself, you and I hope the Holic Dad is baring up okay!
Come on Arsenal!
Can the emirates be the scariest place on earth for the opponents to go to because of the noise levels that it will generate?
Can North London bellow with all it’s might against the chavs, manure and city when they visit?
Come on you doom mongers!! The time to judge is at the end of the season. Yes it was disappointing. Yes we can’t seem to win against the big teams. But we have to keep the faith.
Join BTM in the glass half full brigade 🙂
I’ll have rum and coke, please.
Morning ‘Holic & ‘Holics
‘Holic, BtM, AtG, Snail, some really good points – I’m quite sure that we watched the same game of footie last night.
Yes, we lost. No, we were not shit, far from it. We cetainly made Evra choke on his bile. Manure shaded the win and fair play to them. I think we’ll shade the win at The Ems.
‘Holic – I thought your post was very balanced and sage as always. I am not a “blind” fan, I left the pub with friends last night naturally disappointed but aside from a lucky goal we thought we put up a decent fight. The attacking flair that we normally enjoy was indeed cancelled-out, as was Rooney generally speaking. Kos and Wojciech were highly impressive for most of the match – that was very encouraging.
BtM – I’m with you on Kos. Give him a season or two and he will be another Arsenal legend. The partnership that I hope he will strike-up with TV is definitely something to look forward to.
I still believe Wojciech is our future #1. Distribution aside, he gave an excellent account of himself. He’s a beast. He fills me with confidence, more importantly I think he does the same for our back 4.
AtG – How’s the head this morning? Hair of the dog?
Snail – I agree, a draw would have been fair but since when has the EPL been fair?
Onwards and upwards, I say. Let’s see how we deal with Stoke, Chelski and Wigan this month and what our league position is come the new year before the naysayers and doomers warn us yet again (same old, same old) of our impending implosion and inexorable march towards The Championship under the EPL’s worst manager since records began. What is it that they like to say? Oh yes, FFS!
Drinks all round please barman for those that are able to wipe the shite from their eyes.
Holic can I please have what Arthur had last night?
Those fucking Refs!!!
Harsha that does it – I am going to attend the Wigan @home game (3 o’clock). I will raise the decibels myself if I have to, with a freaking Tannoy if I have to.
Cu’mon yoooouuGooooneeeress!
@Storey: one thing worth noting is that VDS also had problems with his distribution. I think the pitch played a part in that, the pitch did not seem to be in the best of conditions – just look at the number of players who slipped during the whole game.
In any case, Woj certainly did not do anything that indicates he won’t be the future number one. The thing that impressed me the most was actually the fact that he did not perform a blinder, he was just solid and played well. I also like the fact that he did not jump up and down and scream or anything like that after saving that one-on-one with whichever ManU muppet it was who was through. That was, by the way, a brilliant save in it’s simplicity, he ran out like a bullet and just covered as much area as he possibly could.
Alright, back to work again… pints all round and an aspirin for Arthur, who I suspect might have a slight headache today!
Holic, a bit late to the post match drinks, and therefore it probably has all been said already by one “side” or the other above.
I don’t often disagree with you, but I can’t agree that the result last night was down to either bad luck on our part or good luck on Utd’s part.
We made Van der Sar make one save of note in 90 minutes (and Chamakhs reaction (or lack of it) to the rebound was syptomatic of our night).
Compare this with Nani’s shot that just went past the post, Nani’s blast over the bar in the second half, our keepers excellent close range save from I think it was Anderson, our keepers save from the Rooney chip and indeed Rooney’s woeful penalty (however dubious). The point is they looked like scoring we didn’t.
As most are agreed that we need to outscore our opponents since we are not confident that we can keep teams out, our attempts in the last 3rd last night weren’t good enough, to beat lets face it, as medicore a Man Utd side as there has been for a while.
Everyone seems to take great comfort from the position we find ourselves in the league, but can you really see this group of players going on an undefeated run for any length of time, before we are all back on here gnashing and wailing about the same old things?
For me, we need to add flexibility in the way we play, with different players for different game siutations – Arsene just seems to expect this particular group of players to play one way and it will always be successful (and at the same time pay scant attention to the opposition).
Given what I believe is a levelling down of the league, Utd grinding out draws is working for them. We on the other hand are either brilliant or the opposite (sometimes in the same game). It’s hard not to see us as the football equivalent of a flat track bully, showing off whenever the conditions are right for us, but going missing when things get tough.
The trend would suggest that we will be too fleet of foot on Saturday against Stoke, and then come the next big thing against the Chavs we will be back to bemoaning our luck, the ref, the pitch, the ozone layer or whatever. But we need to look closer to home.
I need a pick me up – Vodka and Red Bull please.
@ Lars
Well, AW certainly agrees with you about the pitch but you can see what the media are making of those comments. I think we just need to be able to adapt to different playing surfaces.
Yes, VDS also had issues with his distribution.
Wojciech’s save from Nani when he “stood tall” kept us in the match. Unfortunately, we weren’t able to create anything to capitalise on this great piece of goalkeeping. That, I think, was the frustration that we all shared last night.
A Boddies for Lars when he’s ready please barkeeper.
…. And a drink for GT too who’s something of a one man crusade these days 🙂
Zico
Thanks for the correction, my mistake, it was Anderson who forced that great save from Wojciech and not Nani.
I don’t take great comfort from our league position, I realise how tenuous that is this year. We do, however, remain in with a decent shout of the league IF we can finally nail down the consistency of performances that has eluded us for much of this first-half season.
Anyway, I’ll join you in the pick-me-ups if I may. Feeling rougher than a bear’s bum today. Lemsips are not working….
Zico –
With all due respect, I understand your frustrations, as we need a little lady luck when it come to playing Manure these days. Especially at OT where we have not won since 2005. But we explore the same areas of the teams failings after every defeat and at the end of each season.
We all agreed that we needed a new Keeper (Shezzer stepped in yesterday).
We have all said that we needed back up for Song (However Song was playing).
We have also said we needed a decent Centre back (which we have but he’s injured). However, granted Squillaci and Kos are not everyone’s cup of tea, they had a fairly decent game between them within the confinements allowed at a yet again unplayable OT last night.
So with most if not all areas now covered, I cannot see where apart from having a not so good night, the best squad in the Prem could adjust.
I’m not a professional analysis like Messers Gray (ahem) or Redknapp (ahem). But I cannot see how much more we can improve cosmetically, unless it is wholesale.. I do feel that we need to look at things on a game by game basis, especially when our squad are in the mix! History tell us that the teams that are in and around the main the top spot around Christmas, usually tend to remain there right up until the last day. So lets keep pushing for that title.
Cu’mon, lets get behind the Rip Roooaaaring Reeeddds!! (Arsenal that is!)
Starting at home against Stoke. We owe them another tonking!
This may be simplistic, but if Arsene recognises that they always play the same way against us, and they are always (recently) successful…. then surely we need to change tactics a little, even if just for this one match….?
But then what do I know.
Close 1-0 defeats are always the bitterest. Such game’s outcomes always turn on a single moment, of genius, skill or fortune. Clearly, as we didn’t score, we didn’t play at our attacking best; we continue to struggle to unpick well organised defences, whether of the parked bus variety or ManUre’s higher class version, but had it ended 0-0 we’d have been celebrating a team that could draw ugly. Your level-headed perspective, ‘Holic, is a welcome antidote to the irrational nonsense spouted elsewhere that suggests we were played off the park, which we were not. Two extremely good teams with little between them for all but a single moment.
A pint of mild and bitter to wash away the angst, if you would, ‘Holic.
CG
The tactics issue is a good one. It does appear (to us armchair managers) that SAF generally has the upper hand tactically when faced with an AW team.
That leaves the door open for the players to step-up and compensate when faced with teams like Manure that have several sly old foxes in thier squad. Last night, we didn’t find that creative spark and/or it was extinguished by their tactics.
It’s over now and I hope we can be tactically smarter when they come back to play us at The Ems. We’ve got to beat Manure or Chelski just once this season. The LWCs too…
Got any potions for man-flu in your medical bag?
Correction, of course we beat the LWCs in the CC, how could I forget that? 🙂
TS
I believe I have shared my “Auntie Beechams” remedy for man flu with ATG before?
@CG:
He did. At least defensively. We didn’t commit too many men forward like we did at home back in January. From an attacking point of view though, we were toothless, and that was in part to their tactical discipline, their excellent pressing game and their parking of the bus whenever we were in their last third.
Tactics lost us this game IMO(cf my post @100), but not from a defensive standpoint we didn’t do much wrong.
We can still do this..Man U, though deserving victors, didn’t impress me at all.
Glass of white (yellow) wine please barman, a half-full one please 😀
I’ll have the other half of RVP’s right foot’s white please, for agreeing with him.
RVP – fair point re the defence. I admit I was thinking more about the attack.
Personally, and I know that he’s not everyone’s favourite, I’d like to see Walcott included from the start. It appears to me that we are lacking the speed to disrupt well organised defences. It’s all a bit too samey with the guys we played last night.
Theo racing onto knock downs from Chamakh, for example, would give them something different to think about.
A Vodka shot and a sachet of Lempsip for True Storey please barman.
Storey: “AW certainly agrees with you about the pitch but you can see what the media are making of those comments.”
Actually I can’t, I have stayed away from any media websites all day as I most often do when we have lost 🙂
Lars, your wisdom deserves an extra pint of Boddies me thinks 😉
CG @ #128 – I didn’t see zat from where I was sitting, I need to look at the replay.
Barman? Another glass half-full of vino for RVP’s right and left feet please.
Good post sir. The season will not be won or lost after last nights “performance”, but I do have to wonder when some of the 1st team will actually start to produce what they are paid to do, against all teams.
Welcome BG.
And thanks all. Although I disagree with a lot of what has been written, as usual you have kept the debate respectful. In that regard you are showing yourselves to be better than I could have been for most of today, I think.
Rarely have I seen so many (elsewhere) who seem to delight in their bile and their anger. I have had to impose a mini-Mugabe media lockdown on myself to avoid them.
Cheers ‘holics.
‘Holic
Cheers yourself for the fine post that keep it all in perspective.
A Mugabe media lockdown. Now there’s a thought 😉
Best wishes to the ‘Holicdad BTW.
@CG
So far, Walcott can only beat his man with pace, which is useless against a side defending as deep as Man U did yesterday. He can be lethal though when we play on the counter or against a higher defence line in general.
He’ll get there, I’m sure of it. He had already improved tremendously before his unlucky injury.
@ Dr C
How do you get Lemsip to dissolve in Vodka?
Are you supposed to lick your hand first and tap it out like salt before a tequila?
This just isn’t working and now my brain hurts too…
Thanks TS. Last night would have done him no favours 🙁
RVP, you may have something about Walcott pre-knock. I thought at least he attempted to be positive when he came on, and at the start of the season he was making those direct runs work. His general rustiness owes more to recent inactivity than inherent shortcomings now I think.
It is a worry though that we have so many important players far from match fit going into a period where we cannot afford to be carrying anybody while they get back to that level, and yes, that includes Cesc and RvP, as well as Bendtner frankly.
a mini-Mugabe media lockdown
Hahaha, splendid! 🙂
Cuidado, TS!
the reason we are 2nd in the table is because it’s a very very poor league this year,god forbid fuckin spurs could even win it,but we need to be realistic and admit that most of this side are just not good enough,last night wos and Jack can hold their heads high,the rest??? arshavin is a lazy mug and a show pony who is a luxury in the team,clichy constantly fucks up in big games,make that most games,dont know what has happened to rosicky,chamack is too weak up front,song has gone backwards after a very good season last year,van persie is a great player but never fit enough,cesc looks distant this season and wenger gets more stubborn and blinkered by the week.to say THAT defense is ok and that he does’nt need to but in january is just shocking,we’ve a great chance to win the carling cup only because the other 3 teams left are utter shite,champions league you can forget about and fa cup,well who knows?as i say 2nd but it’s a lucky 2nd.
@ pik
Si compadre!
*need to buy in january
Man, I think some of the criticism is beginning to be rote and not actually observed. Anyone in the world could have predicted that on Nasri’s form these days that he would have been the first target to neutralize. I don’t think this was Nasri’s game to shine. Let him be marked by three men and someone else step in. As for Theo, I have often worried he would never grow as a player, but I think this year he has proved that wrong- he has added smarter, quicker passes, better shots, and the ability to cut inside to his game to great affect. Did it happen last night? No. Is his a one-dimensional cunt? Far from it. Even Asharvin who frustrates the hell out of me and I often wonder why le Boss picks him was one of our more active players through the beginning of the game. I know BTM disagreed, but for me when Cesc and RVP came on, I saw the connections all coming together. Honestly, Rosicky is the only player that I feel may not ‘come good’. I think all that injury time may have cost his career, I hate to say.
And lastly, I’m not trying to deflect from the team per se, but I thought it was immediately obvious that the pitch was way slow and very slippery. Reminded me of a minor version of what Chelsea pulled on Barcelona- think Jose gave a little call to Fergeson? (Of course, Barca- or Dinho- overcame in that match, and that’s what we need to find.)
Come on Arsenal!
Also, it warmed my heart to see Los 33 in the stands- still can’t believe that story, myself. I don’t wish a mining life on anyone. Sorry for the distraction, cheers.
TS @ 122 – that’s my point, we are inconsistent in the extreme and can you honestly say that you would back this group of players before Chelsea to start a consistent streak of form?
Goonertown @ 123 – again, my point was we need to learn to play differently with the players we have got (and I mean the whole squad) – Wenger admits before the game that Utd set up a certain way and yet we play in front of them all night long with no hint of changing our approach, even when it is patently not working. Wenger needs to rid himself of this arrogant approach of not worrying about the opposition – we have not earned the right to be that arrogant and actually paying attention to what they do may pay some dividents.
In essence, I am pissed off for 2 reasons:
1. Not forcing Patrice Evra’s words down his throat – so much for pinning his quotes on the dressing room wall!
2. I cannot argue with the number of gloaters who have said “Arsenal failing when it matters once again….”
I don’t want to maintain the atmosphere of doom and gloom any longer and simply wanted to explain my previous post above.
Sod it, lets all get drunk – “beer, the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems”.
@ pik #146.
No distraction, that was a very smart move from Sir Bobby C.
@ Zico
I understand your point. If I look into the rear view mirror of this season so far my answer would be a resounding no. Even logically, it’s hard for me to say yes convincingly.
But, and there is a but, as a Gunner of 40+ years I know that sooner or later we must go on one of those long unbeaten runs. We’ve got the talent and the only consistent thing in sport is that situations can change very quickly, look at Chelski this year.
Like you, I am a die-hard fan ergo I dust myself down after a defeat, try to believe in the next match and look for the good from the last game to take into the next.
Blind optimisim? Maybe….
It’s all part of the fun though.
…. and I’ll join you in that beer. Maybe Lemsip dissolves in the old amber nectar better than vodka?
@ TS
OK mate, I’ll have a pint of Blind Optimism. (It’s what my wife was driniking the night we met) 😉
Wonderful Zico. Mrs. Storey must have shared Mrs. Zico’s taste in alcohol. 🙂
Catalan-
My guess is that Wenger tried to experiment again with Chamakh and RVP upfront! Seemed like a 4-4-2!
It seemed to work okay but for the fact we have not practiced it enough with our current line up. I’ve always felt that 4-4-2 is our best formation defensively, when it comes to keeping possession against the more attack dangerous teams as Utd and more of a threat against the more stubborn of defences. However if we want to give our midfielders more freedom to attack and be less defensive, then the 4-3-3 is the preferred requirement.
North Bank Ned –
I really felt we deserved a draw, taking the game as a whole and in it’s entirety!
TS @121-
Thanks for the drink by the way! You yourself knows what it’s like when you have to fly the flag ; – )
TS @126 – I understand your point about ‘sly old foxes’. This draws my attention to Fletcher. I don’t want to start tearing this fooker apart the way he does some of our players alot of the time, but even Andy Gray had to admit last night that Fletchers main starting role is to play against us. To elaborate his role is to stop us playing. Contrast that with the role of Song, whose job it is to win the ball (as fairly as possible, which he is still perfecting).
Now I’m not saying that Fletcher is not effective especially with the match officials on his side, but the problem is that as is always being told to us by Gray and Redknapp etc, is that as long as it is within the rules of the game then it is okay. If the player goes slightly further than required he may get a talking to and then eventually is booked accordingly. Now Wenger has opted to teach his youngsters to win the ball fairly. However against teams like Manure a little more experience about what you can and cannot do ‘fairly within the rules of the game’ could be necessary at the right times.
Or could it not? Is it necessary?
RVP – Sometimes I think we and the squad sometimes when they get complacent, forget our team is still a work in progress which still has a lot to learn. When we focus and do not lose sight of this fact we could apply our lessons well as we have in the past and as SAF side could not afford to do anything less than yesterday.
Lol@ Lars@132
Barman a bottle of your best ‘Victoria Concordia Ceset’! I feel a vibe coming along here!
Oh and no more Lemsip for TS. Wouldn’t like him to OD! Lol!
A day after and I’ll stand by my thoughts earlier. None of the top 5 look especially remarkable….our side that kept finishing runners up to Man U would stroll this league. Whoever addresses issues most effectively will win the league and the points total is almost sure to allow for what looks to be a very average season. Normally 5 defeats by Christmas would be the end of contention of course.
I still think we are close enough to keep the faith….and if you don’t realise that Clichy has been ‘going backwards’ since the addition of Arshavin you haven’t been paying attention. Arshavin is a luxury player in a league that is won and lost in having good midfielders who can defend as well as distribute. His (fitness? effort? size?) leave Clichy with an insane amount of work to do and very exposed game after game.
Oddly enough Diaby might have helped yesterday and Ramsey surely too.
Chamakh and Wilshere are obviously knackered….let’s not play them til they drop.
As ‘holic said this wasn’t like the defeats at home that we’ve been seeing but a place we could have got a point. See where we are in 4 matches time and if we are within touching distance then a purchase or two will make the difference.
(addresses issues in the transfer window…left out my main thought!)
Let’s get one thing straight, it was not a case of them wanting it more than us. Every one of our team worked hard and ran until the end, this was no roll-over.
Our defense is getting better and one day Kos will be a world class defender. He reads the game well, intercepts and closes down well and his first touch – so important in the game these days – is excellent, he is also brave. The two full backs also had decent games although not fault free. Squillaci was also very good.
Jack as always worked like a trojan but his inexperience shows (what else could one expect from such a youngster?). He lost possession so much.
I thought that Song worked hard and made many good tackles, a bit all over the place perhaps at times but he often has to cover for other less defensively minded players. Perhaps the more disciplined Denilson would have been a better partner for him than young Jack? I don’t know,it is easy to be wise after the event.
Arshavin frustrates so much, he can be brilliant but he often fails to make an impact and his decision making and passing were terrible all night..
Theo is much stronger and tougher now and does get in good crosses, it is not his fault if there is no one in the box to get on the end of them, and this is an area the coaches should look at.
Were Manure worth the win? Just about! A bit of luck for the goal, a lot of luck for the penalty (missed by a showing-off Shrek) and lucky that Fletcher and Ferdinand were not booked/still on the pitch. But they set their stall out to beat us and they did – just, and we didn’t seem able to adapt to their tactics and change our approach. Perhaps this is something the coaches and manager should think about?
Why did we start at such a slow tempo and so tentatively? Was it a bit of nerves or tension, or were we being too patient? I don’t know.
It’s bloody disappointing but it isn’t the end of the world and there are lots of games still to play and win, so come on you Gunners.
@ GT Re: #126
Yes, you spotted that well.
Actually I was referring to Fletcher and Ferdinand. Not my favourite players, especially after their repeat antics last night. But they did exactly what they were asked to do i.e. foil Arsenal by (almost) any means, even Kung-Fu!
This is part of what makes SAF such an excellent tactician. AW is no less competitive but is cut from a different cloth. If winning is ALL we want then we might need to take a leaf out of SAF’s book but that is not the AW way. As supporters, we have to reconcile that or move on.
Tim – I am sure that you are correct ref Arshavin/Clichy and I agree that we are missing Diaby who seems to get injured just as he starts to get some games under has belt and improve.
It’s a shame that both Cesc and RVP seem a long way off being fully fit and ready because we need them both as we also need The Verminator to take some pressure of Kos and Squill.
Like you said we also need Ramsey back and fit as well – come to think of it with that lot all back and playing we won’t have a bad team, will we?
True Storey, you are right about SAF and his tactics – very pragmatic.
@ Norfolk #158
Ramsey + TV + Cesc + RVP (the real one not ours of the left foot ;-)) all back AND fighting fit could be the tipping point that sets us off on a long unbeaten run that Zico was talking about earlier.
Zico –
I do understand your point buddy and I think I tried to touch on it @ 153. I think we can all agree that our young squad without a lot of experience playing with each other, still have room for improvement.
I hope they can stay together and grow and be the dominant force in the imminent future, based upon what they are now!
I’m getting drunk on the Victoria…; – )
TS –
It’s my job as a Gooner to do so my brother!
Aah! TS and myself work so well together everybody, don’t you agree?
Holics I’m getting ready to leave for the day. I’ll catch back up with you, when I get back to Goonertown.
@TS:
I am deeply offended 🙁
You’re going to have to make it up to me now (buy me a drink, I’m THAT cheap) 😀
I did stay up until 3:30 am to watch the match yesterday. It was really frustrating to see us lose. This is a mediocre ManU team and we were unable to impose ourselves. I really think the team along with the manager(especially) need a huge breath of fresh air. Maybe they could completely take their minds of football for a couple of days and then see if things start looking better.
My head keeps telling me that Ferguson showing respect for Arsenal is not a good omen for us. I would be really confident of Arsenal only when Fergie starts taunting us. It has been a long time since he has done so.
Was it the left/right cross-over thing that offended the most or daring to describe you as not the real one? 😉
As I’m also THAT cheap, care to join me in one of Dr. C’s Vodka-Lemsip slammers? They have an “interesting” effect…. clearly….
I’m with drona.
Nice SAF = content SAF because he’s just beaten us.
Let’s see if he’s so respectful after the return match at The Ems.
What a truly limp, toothless performance. Incredible to think that they made us look pedestrian. Chamakh, despite a few good touches, didn`t seem to attack the ball, and Arshavin was invisible. We never got our passing rythm going and it was a major error not to start at least with Walcott, and probably Robin too. Clichy needs to be told to get the basics right, and he only needed to listen to any number of pre match pundits to have known that he had to adapt his game to cope with Nani. The only saving grace was the encouraging display from Szczesny, who did well overall, if one or two kicks did go awry. Best of all was to see him shouting orders at the defence when it was necessary, as all the top keepers do. It would be nice to see him turn out against Stoke.
Well, we lost but we didn’t take a beating, I thought we put in a hard working shift, we closed them down well and didn’t shurk when it came to tackles, it just didn’t go right in the final third for us. Man Unitedebt defended valiantly and Sir F word got his tactics spot on.
There’s no shame in losing 1-0 at Old Toilet and you doom and gloom merchants really should get a grip. Manure are not an average side, they are a very good team, their unbeaten start to the season testifies this. We’re still in with a good shout in the league, so lets not start handing out the cyanide capsules just yet.
Vodka and Orange juice for me please.
Cheers.
Drona is SO right. Ferguson would be whining like a skewered pig if we were threatening in ANY way. Don’t think for a second the auld goat is mellowing.
How many other animals will creep into this post? 🙂
@TS:
RVP’s right foot’s world is a bleak one; no one ever gives it any credit, many people laugh at it, and most just ignore it completely.
RVP’s right foot works hard, is always there when it’s needed, but sees all its work and contrbutions swept aside repeatedly.
RVP’s right foot just wants to lead a normal life, be respected and loved as much as its left counterpart.
Is that too much to ask? 🙁
Zico, he bellows like a lion at the officials when a decision doesn’t go his way then smiles like starving crocodile after he’s got what he wants. Overall, he’s bit a snake but a hugely successful one. Howzat?
RVP, I know of a good counsellor for your right foot if that will help? Failing that, there’s always alcohol 🙂
Since I found out that the Stockholm-based therapist that Lars referred me to was in fact a dark-haired American (no offence, oh and “no offence” isn’t used here to describe yesterday’s game BTW), I’m inclined to go with the drink 😀
*was in fact a dark-haired American and not a young Swedish blonde
RVP, the bar is open and so help is at hand (or foot in your case)
Zico
Talking of animals and SAF, I’d like the BBC to do another race-horse and multipe questions expose. That will keep him off the tax payers channels here in Blighty for another few years.
TS – sorry, have been away self-medicating.
Re the lemsip dissolving problem – just swirl the stuff around and then slam it down. Wash any residual powder around the gums down with a refreshing beer to ensure full effect.
I do like the idea of doing it a la tequila shot – and the vitamin C from the lemon will build you up nice and strong. Good man.
My earlier thoughts on Theo starting – he is by no means the finished article, but I reckon another plus point from last night would have been to stop Patricia from venturing so far up field. Pace is a wonderful deterrent, even if it is just the threat of it…
Dr.C definitely refreshes the parts other quacks cannot reach. Your humour has just made me spray a Lemsip slammer all over my keyboard. Nurse? The rubber gloves please.
Nobody (I think) has mentioned it and of course he might only have lasted 45 or 55 mins but wouldn’t starting Van Persie have been a better call? Just based on his experience in such big games? Other thought – the only read weakness in Vidic would be pace and he wasn’t faced with that. Walcott as a centre forward….now and then??
Why am I second guessing….bah.
One other thing – we have a woeful habit of losing back to back matches. Let’s be sure that habit stops next game.
Please carry on all. Just sitting here doing my Christmas cards.
Including a special one for that nice Mr Pulis on Saturday 😉
Ah yes. The small matter of welcoming that not that kind of player Sh*wcr*ss and The Poisoned Dwarf who likes to terrorise his players in the shower back to The Ems on Saturday. All the swamp creatures and creepy crawlies at once come to pollute our magnificent stadium. Perhaps we could turn this into some kind of bizarre Xmas panto theme. Widow Twanky and his band of 11 mouth breathing ogres anyone?
Late as usual, buy that does allow time to reflect.
Good, balanced piece as usual, ‘Holic, and I have to say that I too did not feel the anger that accompanied the defeats earlier in the season.
Sadly, that was largely because neither the performance, nor the result, came as much of a surprise. I hate saying that, but it has become almost inevitable lately, that we will lose every big game.
The defence, overall, was better, but was left exposed by midfield players just not covering when our fullbacks are either stranded upfield, or simply outnumbered on the edges of the area.
Why do our full backs bomb on so much when the balls delivered into the box are, in the main, hopeless.
The answer is probably because all the other players have funnelled inside, and the full backs are our only providers of width at all.
Our left back’s attempts to stop crosses coming in are, too often, poor, but he has little or no help and must wonder which way to turn next.
Somehow, we are still up in second place and have much of our spine still to return (Vermaelen, Fabregas, van Persie), or indeed, be decided (GK ???).
With arguably three of our four best players still to return to form and hopefully, long term fitness, we may yet be in with a shout. The next two games are huge indeed.
TS – maybe RedAction can organise the whole crowd to scream “He’s behind you” every time Shawcross runs to tackle Chamakh.
Might even put ‘Not that kind of player’ off.
Zico –” that’s my point, we are inconsistent in the extreme and can you honestly say that you would back this group of players before Chelsea to start a consistent streak of form?” – YES. I honestly can. Chelsea will NOT win anything this season. Put it in a brown envelope marked “open on May 9”. Pints in the Diggers on me if I’m wrong.
Norfolk @156. I look for your comments every time. Nearly as valid and balanced as Holic the card writer himself. Your commentary on Lansbury’s away day has been interesting. Do you get along to watch him?
great one holic could not agree more with you!
Guys:
I love the way we have been playing this season true grit in most games & Monday had plenty of that too.
However true grit is not always enough when playing the better team in world football as we found out?
I’ll put the caveat in before I get murdered by the Arsène’s bomb proof brigade.
In the main this season AW has got it right but Monday I’m sorry to say he got it very wrong in the midfield area.
I have seen us out muscled up there for too many years only for Aw to fall into the same old trap.
The blue nose one knows he has the beating/over powering of our midfield, he’s known it for years & AW never changes his stance when he travels up there. he should be looking to out bully them on their own turf not play football against them year-in year-out, because it has just never worked.
The more I see of him the less I’m impressed (in the big games) Arshavin has to make way for another ball winning midfielder in the team, if we are ever going to win a big game again.
He takes NO part in the toil side of the game that’s SO important within the dominance required to win these games, bring him on after 75mins when we are on top if we must but I personally would not!!!
P.S. how well did young Szczesny play on Monday, I have to say that for all his good games (Fabianski) has played this season I keep coming to the same conclusion every time I see him up close he’s too small to be a world class goalkeeper???
Wednesday, and the first real chance I have had to make a comment about the general mood from Monday. A good summing up ‘holic, a very fair reflection. I think the fact that Ferguson packed the midfield proved the determining factor. It gave us no space to move, especially when you add that AA, TR and SN did not have a good game. AW doesn’t seem to know how to outsmart Fergie.
When I saw the teams I thought we had left our better players on the bench and would pay for it and, as you say, the slice of luck went their way.
I think we need to get Song firmly rooted back in his DM role, and Jack needs to stop giving the ball away. We need TV back soon. Our two central defenders did well, but they don’t have the bulk needed for the league. Clichy is a mystery; whatever happened to the Gael of two years ago?
I am not despondent, disappointed, yes.
BTM @ 184 – a pint in the Diggers? How could any self respecting man refuse? I am not convinced on the consistency front though 😉
The team played well.I blame wenger for not playing rvp from the start.but manure’s tactics were so predictable – quick counters and long balls to nani.I was hoping before the game that we’d play walcott on the left instead of arsha.he would’ve given more protection to clichy.In a big game wenger always seems to get his tactics wrong.
If we look at it statistically, the league this year has been very average.
5 defeats would have been over and out for us if it was any other year. 2 of those have been in places where it is regarded in europe as the toughest places to get a result.
This puts those three home defeats in perspective and really pisses the hell out of all of us….
@Zico- agree with you on Arsene’s stubbornness of not wanting to concentrate more on opposition in preparation for these kind of games.
I remember watching Barca playing chelski in the semis when they went on to win the champs league. They were very stubborn in their philosophy,of the way they played. They just wouldn’t play any other way than keep the ball on the ground. They were going out until Iniesta scored a blinder with Barca’s first shot in the game. In injury time. Of course it could have gone the other way. Chelski were denied penalties a couple of times. But there you go. Arsene has a similar philosophy but I am not sure whether it will work in this league.
Hello BTM 184, and what a player he was – Dennis I mean, definitely one of my all time favorites.
I have to hold up my hand and admit that I am only an arm chair follower of the Canaries these days via TV, local radio, the press and from speaking to friends who actually go to the matches. Norwich City is a great little club but there is really only room in my heart for Arsenal these last 30 years or so but again I have to own up to only seeing them on TV. A few years ago I joined the Norfolk Arsenal Supporters Club in the hope this might get me a ticket but they were like gold dust and in any case my job demanded that I work most Saturdays and now my pension most definitely won’t stretch that far even if the unlikely opportunity should arise.
Love this site BTW always interesting and generally more thoughtful comment than most.
Interesting post Lee 186 – remember ‘Pizzagate’ and Keown bashing into Vannistelroy (spelling?) etc? That was from the days when Ferguson really worried about us and our physical size and power but we have different players now and play a somewhat different game but we will come good although the waiting is painful.
DC 187 What has happened to Gael? Arshavin! Gael is getting a lot of stick and most of it unfair. Yes, mistakes have been made but he is having to do too much because of the lack of support from midfield.
Unlucky? oh god, we hadn’t a single clear chance all game while united had a few.
we never looked dangerous except nasri’s shot and our midfield didn’t control the game.
Unlucky? How? Did we hit the bar 5 times in a row? Did we lose 5 players to injury? That’s unlucky.
We weren’t good enough to match an average united side who worked their socks off.
Let’s not hide under the unlucky excuse and let’s accept we aren’t good enough for the big games.
N D,
That is my point we have to stop playing the way Ferguson wants us to play every away trip, we have the players in the squad NOW to combat it.
A couple of six foot & over’s in the midfield to wear them out then we start playing football after that, @ the moment it’s just too easy for old blue nose to dominate us time after time in that area………
Arsenal Insider with Johan 360
http://www.johan-djourou.ch/jo/en/360d-pictures/161-arsenal-insider
I believe some of you think it’s game over we are not good enough, we haven’t got the balls, they wanted it more etc…. It boils my blood when I read certain comments from those who think we are doomed and the players we have are a bunch of softies.
Now for those doubters read this blog and it will give a good insight of how Mr Webb controlled this game:
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/9598
Look at the league table to start with, no one said it was going to be easy when playing Man IOU especially with that twat Webb in charge. To be honest with you when I found out he was going to be in charge I knew we had slim chances of winning this one. I’m sorry but there a few refs in the EPL who I consider fair and I could count them all with one hand only, sadly.
We weren’t our best but it’s not like it was “training centre” stuff was it now? We improved in the second but lady luck wasn’t on our side and especially in those big games you need some of that. Just look at their goal.
It has to be said this side needs to WIN the Beer Cup this season, there is no winning mentality there and most of our players apart from Cesc have not experienced this feeling. I believe once we’ll win something the lads will grow bigger and better and lifting a trophy will make them even hungrier!
Now bring on Mr Pulis and his innocent Ryan Shawcross!
COME ON ARSENAL…..
Harsha @ 190
With all due respect though Barca have earned the right to refuse to play any other way. If our current team had league trophies and Champions League Final wins under their belt it would be easier to understand Wenger’s stubborn streak.
Whether we like it or not, the old hypocrite from Govan is more pragmatic than our manager, and is reaping the reward, particularly in games against us.
I am not one of those fans who sees beautiful football as being an end in itself. Silverware matters and if it comes with great play then that’s a fantastic bonus. I am not suggesting a return to “drudgery” – I would just like to see us demonstrate that we can change it if we need to, particularly in games against them and Chelsea.
Maybe we just need that first cup win – other teams have proved that this can act as a springboard to greater heights.
Holic @ 180 – I wrote mine last night.
It said
“Dear Mr Pulis,
all the best for a Happy Christmas and best wishes from all your “friends” at Arsenal for 2011, when you will still be a cock.
Just so we are clear, you are a cock, and always will be a cock”.
Ho, ho, ho.
Zicoinexile
guys
many interesting comments. 193 (unrelated) – 100% right. in what sense were we unlucky ? because we lost only 1 nil and that goal was a “fluke” ? the goal may have been but the ball was delivered dangerously into the box and they had more than one attacking it. already that differentiates them from us !! as other posters have pointed out they had many chances and we had one . one.
many say this is a united team but what does that make us ? they are ahead of us and beat us as they want. they played that way because they knew they could win that way. they could possibly win another way but why not go with what they know ? I personally have no doubt they could have changed their game – we could not.
and blaming the ref ? ffs. that link to the webb site ? has the author nothing better to do ? he has selectively picked moments from the match to make a case. what about all the fouls we committed in first half an hour – i couldn’t believe it took ref so long to show a card. does any rational person really think that refs take sides in these games. i know we are disappointed but lets not lose our dignity.
People have mentioned that we need to win the League Cup this year given our position in it now, but the aftermath of this game has got me to thinking, if we win just the League Cup this season, will the usual doom-mongers who crop up after every defeat (and for that matter, the media) be satisfied? Or will they just still carp that we still can’t win challenge for the league, can’t beat Man Utd and Chelsea etc. Admittedly 1. such people are best ignored anyway and 2. the alternative is us not winning the League Cup and these same people will definitely go nuts.
Would be nice to try and win the FA Cup this year, I mean Chelsea can’t keep winning the bloody thing.
Well said Arthur @ #195
Trev @ #183, that’s a grand idea but I wouldn’t restrict it to Chamakh 😉 A big panto hook should be used to drag him off by the neck should he dare to show the kind of “intelligence” that he did on that fateful day in February. How about a big welcome banner draped over where the away creepy crawlies will sit with a nice subtle message like “Sh*wcr*ss: f*ck off back to where you came from you mouth breathing thug”? or “Go have a shower with Uncle Tony?”
BtM @ #184,
I’m with you on Chelski winning nothing this year and admire the courage of your convictions as it could all turn around for them too. Here’s to adding to their demise with a decent win on 27th.
How’s that Xmas video of South American loveliness coming along?
TS
“Go have a shower with Uncle Tony?” hahahahahaaaaaaa
AtG
It probably made him the player he is today…
@Charlie
Who cares about what the others want or don’t want us to win?
Winning a trophy may be the catalyst that this team needs in order to acquire a genuine winning mentality, and keep some of our better players at the club.
It would (if we actually win it that is) also show the spuds that we won the only trophy that they’ve lifted in recent decades, and we did so THE FIRST TIME WE EVER TOOK IT HALF SERIOUSLY.
It’s almost as humiliating to them as us winning the league unbeaten at their place.
@ Charlie & @ RVP’s counselled feet
Let’s win the damn thing AND taunt the Spuds about it!
I can’t see any negatives in this positive 😉
Boring match. United got ahead then parked the bus. Unreal bias in the media after. United players all got 8/9 out of 10 and Arsenal’s highest in the Mirror was Wilshere, who was probably our worst player. But hey, he’s English.
Koscielny got slated despite winning every ball that came near him in the air.
Pathetic
I haven’t watched the game again, but one thing I missed while watching it was Koscielny’s individual performance. Can anyone enlighten me on the subject, because I really wasn’t paying attention to both our CB’s performances (which can only be a good sign, right?)
RVP
IMHO, Kos played very well and cancelled out Rooney for most of the match. He won most tackles and many challenges in the air.
Squillaci was less convincing but still decent. The only bad moment I recall is in the first half when he tried to clear a ball with his head. It landed at the feet of Nani who fizzed it on the half-volley just wide of Wojciech’s right post.
No doubt others will take joy in telling you that these two played like bargain basement numpties…. 🙁
Bloody ell –
I hit that link of yours Arthur and lost the post I’ve been writing!
To sumarise what it was about:
I love all of ya’lllll!
Just for fun
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/arsenal/58733/shit-lookalikes-alex-song-don-king.html
What a great combination: 1. being a gooner 2. being positive
Barman, a round for all those positive gooners in the bar today (you know who you are!)
@ 211 agree fully
let’s see 200+ comments after the next win please!!
Arthur, it is hardly a secret that Webb lights devotional candles for the Ferguson god. That is my positive contribution for today.
If any of you want some motivation on how we must now focus on Saturday’s task and get behind our team take a wander onto this heinous little backwater of the internet and scroll to the bottom of the page. The bile and hatred starts in the paragraph above the logo:
http://northy.footballunited.com/2010/12/12/stoke-city-vs-blackpool-in-the-eyes-of-mysticaldescent/
We’re all Gooners with a common desire. It would be great if we could save our negative energy and bile for those who really deserve it i.e. our opponents.
Apologies in advance for those of a nervous disposition.
‘Holic, as always, you have the right to remove this post.
Drinks for all those who have a thirst please barman. Cheers all!
If anyone has a chance to see the game again, have a look at Arshavin in the tunnel. He’s so disappointed he’s even there and wishes he was somewhere else, that was a joke, you’re about to play Arsenal Vs Man U at Old Trafford and you look like a gooner would look like AFTER losing to Spurs.
I’m slowly growing very impatient with his lack of professionalism…
Another article designed to make you smile:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1338869/Stoke-defender-Ryan-Shawcross-guarded-minders-Arsenal.html
I thought it would have been the Arsenal players that needed the minders – on the pitch that is…
there is a lot of talk here about a young team that has to learn (and when they do, watch out). ok here goes.
i have put together both ours and united’s “best team” and compared ages
us
defence (BS, SS,TV5,GC) 108
midfield (CS, AS, AS,SN)98
forward (rvp, MC)54
utd
defence (Rds,rf,nv,pe) 110
midfield (mc,nani,av,anderson) 100
fwd (wr,db) 55
combined us 260, them 265, or av difference of 6months. ok i left out gk, but we knoe they will replace vds at end of season for a 20 something.
so that’s that myth, that arsene hides behind, shattered
yes we have jack,aaron, theo etc coming through, but you can be sure they do too (smalling, fabio, hernandez, cleverlry, welbeck)
sorry to break the bad news, but my point always is that we need to be OBJECTIVE.