Been There, Seen It, Done That, Burnt The Tee Shirt
Feb 27th, 2011 by 'holic
Quite a back catalogue we have, as I highlighted in the preview. There is a common theme that runs through the aftermath of such a painful defeat. In 1969, defeat to third division Swindon owed much to a horrendous mix-up between a gangly centre-half and a goalkeeper not long established in the side. The ‘keeper went on to become an Arsenal legend, the centre-half was shipped out a bit smartish. A little over a year later we had our first European trophy in the bag, and a year later a first double was being celebrated.
In 1988 we had taken almost total control of the Final against Luton Town in the second-half. 2-1 up with ten minutes to go, we missed a penalty, watched on in horror as another gangly centre-half set up the equaliser for Wilson, before Stein grabbed a last gasp winner for the underdogs. The centre-half played just five more games for the club before being shipped out. A year later we went to Anfield and landed the Championship on an unforgettable night.
I hope our gangly centre-half today fares better than Ian Ure and Gus Caesar. Laurent Koscielny is a good prospect who, along with Johan Djourou, has contributed to us not missing Thomas Vermaelen as much as perhaps some of us had feared earlier in the season. Both are still learning though, and were taught a painful lesson today. The question now is whether or not these lads can imitate their predecessors in ’69 and ’88 by turning the painful experience of a defeat against the odds into the joy of winning big.
Lose against the odds they may have, but let’s pay credit to the winners. Birmingham and us have recent history. Birmingham fans and this blog have recent history. We have to hold our hands up and say in a game of two halves that the first belonged almost entirely to them. They should have had a penalty early doors, no question. The assistant referee made a serious error by flagging erroneously for offside, and Szczesny brought down Bowyer as the referee whistled for an Arsenal free-kick. Bowyer and ball were heading for the corner-flag, so talk of a possible red card being avoided was wide of the mark, but a penalty may have provided an opening goal.
Zigic took advantage of Szczesny’s uncertainty, and Djourou’s unnecessary keenness to clear the box, to put that first score on the board. Mistakes by both are rare, so condemnation should be muted with that in mind. Soon after Szczesny showed his quality when reacting quickly to deny Zigic in a one-on-one. Arsenal were not getting into their stride, Wilshere apart, and I was probably not the only one surprised to see Rosicky given the Fabregas role. Did that selection have an effect on Nasri, kept out on the right, and Bendtner, surprisingly benched as a result? The thought has to be aired. It seemed a curious selection.
It took a few moments of magic to get us on level terms. Wilshere broke from deep, then watched on as his superb twenty yard drive hit the bar and eventually broke to Arshavin. From the Russian’s cross van Persie produced a stunning right foot volley into the far corner. In so doing he appeared to do some damage to his chocolate leg and we have a nervous wait for a medical update tomorrow. If he is added to a casualty list including Fabregas and Walcott then this end of season could take on a similar hue to last. Fingers crossed on that score.
As much as the first half had belonged to Birmingham, so the second belonged to us, and like them we failed to take full advantage. Apart from a Fahey drive against the post we pinned them back and produced sustained periods of pressure, but rather than a glut of clear chances we created only half-chances and when finally getting efforts on target we found Foster in superb form in the Birmingham goal. It was no surprise to see him presented with the man of the match award at the end, although possibly harsh on Wilshere.
As the final minutes ticked away you could only see one winner. Birmingham, desperate to relieve the pressure, launched one up the middle, Zigic flicked on harmlessly, and Koscielny and Szczesny chose the worst possible moment to engage in a game of ‘after you Claude’. It was a moment that will spark a zillion venomous comments from small-minded people. It is how those two players react to that moment that will decide if this set of players can yet get some reward from the position they find themselves in. One trophy may have gone, but three remain.
So Birmingham, fair play. You contributed much, particularly to an intriguing first-half, and tonight are experiencing for the first time what we have so many times. Sweet, isn’t it? Enjoy your beer tonight, and normal hostilities will resume next time we meet.
For Arsenal, it might be an idea to avoid the worst excesses of the internet for a few days. It’s time for Arsene and this squad to take this disappointment and turn it into a determination to repay the vast majority of Arsenal fans who deserve better than they were treated to today. Yes, there was a degree of misfortune to it, as indeed there was in the past. Now show us you are able to emulate those great Arsenal sides.
Please.
307 Responses to “Been There, Seen It, Done That, Burnt The Tee Shirt”
Meh.
DRinks are on me.
In the end, you should’ve gone, ‘Holic.
Nice review.
Still gutted, but for those that have read my comments on the last blog post, you know I’m still not down and out. This is football and football history is written in equal amounts of failure and success. Every club has their wonder games and unexpected and unnecessary losses. This was one of the latter for us, and one of the former for Birmingham. It’s just the way it goes. I think we should have done better, much better, but as an Arsenal fan, nay, as anyone interested in football at all, I know that these things happen. There are always two teams in a final and the favorite doesn’t always win, as much as we wanted them to do that today. There are three more trophys to go for. This season. And there are countless trophys to go for in the coming years.
Next up, Orient! And, as I said in an earlier comment, as much as I can’t stand Kos at the moment (I absolutly hate his guts!) that won’t last and I’ll love him again when he makes a last ditch clearance against Orient in a few days. It’s our team, Gooners, let’s get behind them next game. Even if it’s alright to curse them for a few days first…
Holic – for your Swindon and my Ipswich, another generation now have Birmingham.
The first cut is the deepest.
Some more Rioja, it’s open already…
Congratulations Brum. They deserved it.
Good Write!
I still to this moment dont understand the Asharvin Sub, i thought he was one of our most dangerous players today albeit as well as Wilshire and Nasri. We must step up now we have vital games ahead and weve shown we can react well to a big loss, The manure game is one of those loose 1-0 Heartbroken then beat chelsea 3-1..
COME ON ARSENAL!!!!
……Deep sigh……….oh dear……..I have to say that B’ham deserved their victory. If we were as up for this game as we were for the Barca game then undoubtably we would be bringing the cup home.
a victory for hard work, endeavour and team spirit……which incidentally we should have every time we step on the pitch.
Like you ‘Holic I have a long experience of this, my first final being Leeds ’72…..Ugh, Scotch & American please
Hindsight is a wonderful asset for those of us in front of a keyboard, but, why play Roscisky, for all 90 minutes, he clearly isnt the player he was and looks like he could lose a pound or two ( or 16 ). Why take Arshavin off?
Just grasping at straws really, it’s just another disaster today, along with West Brom, Newcastle twice, Wigan, Sunderland and Spuds. And Ipswich, Leeds and Orient
.
Didn’t we wind up beating Leeds and Ipswich (and will hopefully do the same with Orient)? Not sure Wigan and Sunderland (I presume they refer to these season’s games) count as disasters either.
Anyway as Unlucky Alf in The Fast Show would say, ‘oh bugger’. A very disappointing day all round, but doubtless we’ll all be cheering on Chelsea on Tuesday (horrible thought I know) then trying to bounce back on Wednesdy and Saturday.
@Catalan, was pretty sure that is what you felt, that is, that the suits should be there for our players and not the for the rest of the footballing world. I understand the point and it’s well worth thinking about (and I might well think the same for a few minutes trying to understand what happened today!), but I’ll probably end up still feeling that we should be dressed for the mission ie playing football and that track suits are quite the fit when it comes to that. I’ll have some of that Rioja if you don’t mind! If it’s running low, let’s get another one.
At least one good quote from Wenger tonight:
“It is a massive disappointment for the team but we have massive challenges in front of us – the Carling Cup is four games, five games but a championship season is 38. We will not throw 38 games away because of one game”
Mature and sanguine and generous as ever ‘Holic. You do make me feel better. Keep up the good work. Black stuff all round.
But when the chips are down you realise who to enter the trenches with but today Djourou and Kos looked second rate and it doesnt bode well.One thing is to perform over 3 months another to perform over 9 months and perform in vital,vital games.Adams and keown had that superb ability Djourou and kos havnt and never will.Games like these makes great players and they create average players dependent on performance.Mentally they will be destroyed by their performances and they will take it in to games long in to next season.
Oh, and Catalan, congratulations on the home front!
Cheers Barry! Nice to have you here! If only you had gloated about the very apparent error made by our defense (and rightly so) and not just called Arsenal supporters in general retards, I might just have congratulated you on the win.
Is this the first cut for most younger Arsenal fans? I’m not so sure. This hurts, but not nearly as much as the FA Cup Final in 2001, a game we didn’t just dominate but slaughtered Liverpool to lose 2-1. I think we all know what happened in the seasons followimg that.
I just don’t have it in me to hurt as badly when we have been deservedly beaten by the better side on the day, like today. I also will not condemn let alone spew vitriol on two players who brought us to the cup final with their performances and are days removed from providing us with a famous victory. Kos and Woj, I didn’t doubt you then and I don’t doubt you now. Keep putting in the work and this will soon be a distant memory I’m sure.
This is football, this is how it can go, this should be why we all love it. Defeat makes victory sweet, you can’t really enjoy one without the other. Bring on the next game, I wish it kicked off now.
Fortunately Bath I was taught by ‘holicdad from early doors to play to win, if you can’t win don’t lose, and if you do lose be a big man, say well done, and buy the beers.
A lesson many would do well to heed.
*stumbling back into the bar, slurring words*
“Fucking disgrace! It was a FUKIN DIZGRAZE!”
Damn, Drug-bar…damn.
Awww, ‘Holic, now you are just making me look like I’m hearing ghosts! Or… Am I actually hearing (well, reading) random Blues supporters that aren’t actually there?
Catalan, congratulations are in order, I understand. Great stuff fella.
Hi Ox. Any more progress on the trip front?
Gutted, devestated and then some….but we need to pick ourselves up and do so quickly.
Far to many times of recent years we have got to this stage of the season in a good position only to self destruct. We can not afford to do this now, we still have 3 trophies to play for and we are in such a good position to win any of them.
The players need to use this as motivation. Do they hate how they feel right now? Then make sure you go out into the next game and win so you dont feel like that again.
PS Jack Wilshere was again our best player and also the youngest. He looked gutted at the full time whistle, showing how much he loves our club. Hes going to be a legend for this team.
Very harsh comments on Djourou from Danish, the guy has been great for us this season. And saying neither he nor Kos will ever have the ability to be top class players is ridiculous.
The disaster of Leeds caused an unnecessary replay. The disaster at Orient caused as an unnecessary replay. The disaster at Ipswich, along with the disaster at Leeds and Orient, proved that our second string cant hack it at lower league clubs. All three disasters caused us to play our first eleven in three extra games we could do without.
Haha Toby, were you around for the visits of the Small Heath Alliance? I don’t think we’ll see them for a day or two. They will be partying big style. I know I would have been, and it would have been our first major trophy for six years, not our first one ever 🙂
Good luck to ’em.
You’ll get used to Danish Charlie 😉
Barry – what a sad liitle bloke you are. Yes it hurts but who is it you support?
Easy jrr, he’s gone…
Let’s be big men here please ‘holics.
Cheers.
‘The disaster of Leeds caused an unnecessary replay. The disaster at Orient caused as an unnecessary replay. The disaster at Ipswich, along with the disaster at Leeds and Orient, proved that our second string cant hack it at lower league clubs. All three disasters caused us to play our first eleven in three extra games we could do without.
And all those games had what bearing exactly on today?
Fair play Brum. Top blog ‘holic.
Heh, ‘Holic, surely it must say something about a supporter when his first (or even fourth!) act after winning a final is to actually start searching around the Worldwide Interwebs for opposition blogs instead of, you know, actually be happy and celebrating. We’ll get the next one ‘Holic, and if I’m somewhere even remotely close you I’ll buy you a glass of anything in the bar. Keep it up, we all need a blog like this!
Guys,
How far is it from the Emirates to King’s cross by tube?
As an Arsenal supporter for over 70 years, I never mind a game we have lost, if the opposing goalie is made MOTM.
I’ve actually kind of missed Danish. He is like the dark side of me that is trying to get out even if I won’t let him. Have a drink, Danish, it’s on me! I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with you on more than 10% of any given post, but for fucks sake, you’re one of us anyways.
Arsenal or Holloway Road station to King’s Cross station is about 7-8 minutes by Tube (if that)
Snir, minutes.
Depending on station used and line then one to three stops…
Snir, a few minutes? If you are thinking about tube station to tube station? Seven minutes or so?
An excellent well-balanced blog.I was there and am amazed by some of the people that now follow Arsenal as though we are a club in crisis ansd the blubbers who react as if someone died.This is the Carling Cup and even if we won we would have received little credit.
Wenger was wrong to start Rosicky as you say and to confine Nasri to a wide role.If there are question marks over personnel they would be attached to Arshavin whose lack of tracking back was criminal and Bendtner who is the only one surely who now believes his own publicity.
Szczesney and Koscielny don’t need castigation for that mistake it will haunt them anyway but they must come back stronger.I might play them both against Orient just to get them involved asap
Thunder,
Great idea, play them both against Orient. We cant blame them for the defeat, there was a lot wrong today.
Not a happy day but in three days there is another important game waiting. Speaking of which, I have been hearing conflicting things on whether Ramsey is allow to play against Orient. Does anyone know for sure if he is able to play on Wednesday or does he have to wait ?
Chelsea do United Tuesday we beat Sunderland Saturday The rat eaters beat united sunday we are a point of top with a game in hand Happy Days 😉
‘allowed to play’ sorry for the typo
Hi guys, i agree with some and agree with others, but let’s be honest, does anyone think that if we beat orient, we can then go and beat united? If we beat barca we can then go on and beat united, real Madrid or ac Milan? And that we can catch united in the league because they will drop points and we will win, yes win the rest of our games…coz I can’t see it…wish I could but I can’t
Whistling Past the Graveyard
Having watched this game today the thought came to me that Wenger has been whistling past the graveyard for far too long now. Forgetting about the late mistake, calamitous as it was, if you were to wonder why Arsenal have had this trophy drought for the past six years then todays game should have taught you all you need to know. No leader, too many (Rosicky, Arshavin et al) wandering around giving 30%
Look we were beaten by Birmingham. Birmingham!!!!
But for all their limitations, they all gave 100% their team has balls, fighting spirit and a backbone. Yet next week again Wenger will be back on banging on about our team with “fantastic determination, focoos (focus!!) and great spirit.”
Whistling past the graveyard.
A shame we lost, i feel for Kos and Chesney, they must be absolutley destroyed. Making such a clumsy, cos that is the only word that can describe it. Clumsy, clumsy mistake in the last minute. Well it was the first of many finals this young team will endure, they been there now and know how it feels. I feel confident they have learned the hard way and will not repeat it.
I am alot more worried about RvP than i am about this loss. We got some really important matches coming up and CC is after all not the end of the world. The end of the world would be a 5th place comes July.
I hope the boys now can show the idiots that said” if arsenal loose CC they wont win anything”. This must be Chesneys “Fabianski moment” as he had in the Cl game against Porto last year. Lets just hope he gets out of it as a stronger person.
Onwards and upwards people! I see barcelona looming in the distance along with United and other exciting matches!
when are we going to wake up wenger is shite .we only won trophies when he had half of george grahams team. and our best player by far over that time was bergamp bought by bruce rioch. we make lovely patterns in midfield but you wont win anything when he keeps buying crap defenders.
why would you think we cannot beat barca and United??? Everybody knows that this team preforms best as underdogs. We cannot cope with being the favourits so all matches that puts us as underdogs are good matches. We win those or play very very well. The ones against the birmighans and the stokes in the world thoug.. that is the tricky ones….
And they are fighting relegation !! Most know I’ve got issues about where Arsenal are going and the direction we are taking but come on your bigging Brums attitude and fighting spirit whilst knocking ares less than a week ago we turned over arguably the best club side ever a bit of perspective,
Cheers bob, I needed a laugh
*hiccup*
Waz dat, boob, I mean Bob. Are we gonna start back with “Wenger is Shite” crap? Go on back home big fella… I don’t need to hear that lot while I’m placing salve and ointment on the wounds.
I was always worried about Oba.
yes i know we beat barca last week more by messi poor finishing then our great football .i cant see our defence if you can call it that getting away with it a second time. i have seen better defending by capt mainwaring and his dads army.
wenger has made selection blunders in the past in the championdhip finals by replacing campbell and cole with senderous and flamini baring in mind the latter hadn’t conceded a goal all the way to the finals the rest they say is history. Putting rosicky in fabs role rather than nsari was the biggest blunder for me because nasri was ineffective on the right and rosicky useless in the middle. By the way the goals we conceded were diabolical to say the least
Search for answers where maybe there aren’t any. I dont know, just feel our season has once again disintegrated in February. Hope I am wrong.
Someone just tweeted this picture of Jack and Eboue. Very touching.
http://twitpic.com/44hbvy
evening everybody top post as always holic. We have to except that these things happen in football to every team not just ours, remember Terrys pen against Man IOU hit the post Champ Lge Final now that would be gut wrenching. If we were offered the position we are in now at the start of the season we would have bit anybodys hand off!!
i thought we had a bad day at the office Wilshere excluded ( is there a better english midfielder than him at the mo) who almost brings a tear to my eye the passion he plays with and also remember guys that was the 1st cup final for a lot of them and they won’t want to experience that feeling again.
i just hope it gells the team together even more for the bigger battles that lie ahead and they don’t suffer some big hangover.
Kos has had his moments this season but has also played really well at times esp against barca when he was superb. The team now need our support even more staring on Wed. keep the faith
Up the Arse
There used to be a saying, “Arsene knows”. Now I’m not so sure, maybe he should think about a new defensive coach. Would Adams or Keown or Campbell been terrorised by a plumb liuke zigic? Clichy was another one who made too many mistakes today. This will knock Arsenal’s confidence and I fear for the rest of the season now.
bob, let the nice nurse give you the injection, and go to sleep fella.
*hiccup, mumbling*
Going on vacation in sunny Mexico for a few days on Tuesday. Definitely need to recharge the batteries… suggest everyone do the same (recharge the batteries that is).
I just wish that Pat Rice would get fired up…or that Le Prof would let someone else vet his team selections.
That’s it, gents (I’m really off this time)
Good stuff ‘Hols.
I hope all of us Arsenal fans can get behind Koscielny and show him support (how do you think he feels about that goal?). We will most surely require a repeat of his recent form to contain Messi at Camp Nou.
i am still waiting to hear from someone who can defend a manager who’s side take a four nil lead away from home aga;nst an average newcastle team and then scrape a 4-4 draw lose at home to west brom struggle in the f.a cup against teams i cant even remember.
lets get rid a bring in someone with a bit of passion in them so just maybe we might win a trophy sometime this century.
Holic thanks for adding perspective. I was devastated enough to send the management shopping ( she still isn’t home, gulp ) just to have the house to myself. Your post bounced me back. Orient on Wednesday!
I’m all in favour of getting rid of people Bob, especially those who think our invincible team owed anything to George Graham.
Grow up and be sensible for fucks sake.
Oh and Bob I think I hear Le Grove calling your name. You’ll fit right in there
Like Pullis he’s got loads of passion, Fuck me Wengers made some bad decisions and mistakes and shown to much beleif in some average players but he’s also taken us places we’d never been won 3 league titles 4 fa cups and brought greats like Henry Paddy and Pires to the club and his biggest achievement building a new stadium whilst keeping us competitive, Maybe it is time for a change but at least let the season finish before hanging the bloke,
bob,
Who would replace him? Big Sam? Twitchy? I can defend Arsene because he’s won 3 League Titles (one of which we were undefeated) and 4 FA Cups at Arsenal. Or, if you would prefer more recent history, I can defend him because his substitutions saw us win 2-1 against a Barcalona team that is playing really, really good football right now.
I don’t mean to excuse the poor results (we can certainly do better), but they happen sometimes. Look at Man United against Wolves if you think it’s just us.
Joshua – you’re making the mistake of assuming that bob is a logical sort of person with more than five brain cells.
The highs and lows of the past few seasons is really something to experience as a fan…..snatching victory from defeat in some games and vice-versa in others. I’ve been a sports fan for over 35 years and have never seen a team in any sport as perplexing as this one. Just when you think the skies the limit, we implode. Just when you think there is no chance, we play our best football. I still have high hopes for this team and am thankful that you (Holic) provide such a calm perspective to tough losses like the one we experienced today. Let’s not worry about Barca and Manure right now, let’s get back on the horse and be ready for Orient.
Bob, Pulis has plenty of passion. Let’s bring him in eh?
LG, you underestimate the job Pat does, and I hope we don’t suffer when he doesn’t renew his contract this summer. I use those words carefully. It is Pat who isn’t renewing. The club want him to stay on.
Common misconceptions abound at this club, and many surround Pat and his role. The fella IS Arsenal.
Top post Gedo
Ah, Chippy – you beat me to it!
Holic, Cheers for the good wishes – she’s sue on March 5th. The previous two have been 3 days late. So, with ticket in hand I may have a decision to make!
I’m quickly learning that this probably means we will beat Barcelona. It’s the highest of highs and the lowest of lows with this bunch. Having the Chavs take 3 points on Tuesday would really cushion this blow
She’s not Sue. She’s due!
Cheers ‘holic, your reasoned perspective is just what’s needed (despite the pain).
Full marks to Jack today, he was excellent.
Let’s hope the team can pick themselves up – there is still so much to play for.
Keep the faith.
Even a draw from Chelsea v Man Utd (and Liverpool v Man Utd) would be very welcome.
@ Catalan …Ummm, Unless you sleep in bed with Arsene Wenger, I’d go to the hospital. Just saying
‘Hols,
Not for the first time you have appropriately chastised the loose tongue on an old fool. I appreciate it.
Here’s my credit card. Please buy a couple rounds for yourself and the bar to make amends for my, evidently, out-of-touch comments.
Pax.
‘holic – nice recap and cheers to you for being philosophical. I am still in shock and gutted. I would have preferred to have Nasri play in the Cesc role too. And I would have started Bendtner on the right. I’m disappointed with Wenger’s substitutions. The first one probably had to be made if RvP couldn’t go further. But AA was playing well and was threatening throughout. Rosicky should have been replaced instead (and slide Nasri into the Cesc role). Nasri would have been able to influence the game a great deal in the Cesc role … Rosicky, not so much.
My only complaint with your write up is the Bowyer incident. If it’s a penalty then it’s a sending off for the keeper too. Cheeser was the last man in an obvious goal scoring situation. Stone wall penalty. Stone wall red card. Ten men thereafter and likely down 0-1. But that’s all water under the bridge now. Hats off to Birmingham. Their last trophy was the 1963 League Cup. We didn’t play well enough today to deserve to hold it aloft. Keep up the fine work ‘holic. Your blog is always an interesting read.
CG – Congratulations to your upcoming addition to the family. Perspective indeed.
You’re not the only one LG, no worries.
Credit card eh? Let me just take an imprint on this machine here before I serve the drinks 😉
goonerholic, please forgive if i am wrong but seaman adams dixon winterburn all georges boys .when thia arsewipe of a manger got rid and replaced them with the dross we have now surely you can see were i am coming from . lets not forget i have been going to watch our beloved team for over 35 years .and has far as i can remember the game is all about winning things not just playing pretty football
Theo, chill.
It is not an obvious goalscoring opportunity when ball is heading towards the corner flag at pace being chased by Lee Bowyer who would have needed a motorised skateboard to catch it.
We are in danger of forgetting the intention of that rule…
Better hurry-up on that there imprint, ‘Holic, the card is issued by B. Madoff Bank and Trust, LLC 😉
Duttlenheim… you are a wise man! 🙂
And of course, there would never be a choice. But, if she could just hang on for 90 minutes……
I had to miss the final to get the little guy to a snowboarding lesson. I’ve seen the highlights. It’s so disappointing to lose a final. I’m groaning as I type.
The league title is the one I really want. Come on you Gunners.
Bob, we went 49 unbeaten with Jens, Lauren, Sol, Kolo, Cuntley.
The man made the first great side with his attacking signings, then a second great side was all his, now this third one that has yet to deliver.
Be fair if you are determined to be unreasonably and absurdly critical.
6 pints of the black stuff have eased the pain considerably, unlike luton when even pleading for alcohol got me a clip around the ear. In hindsight the subs were wrong but the fish we are frying are super big at the moment so no time to wallow..
@noel73 – I’m two in myself, didn’t have to see it live, and not feeling too bad.
Positive as usual ‘ Holic, good to see some old school sportsmanship.
As we all know this game was always about more than just the Carling Cup. Do you think Arsene can rally the troops or is this a body blow we will struggle to recover from?
Ardbeg with a splash of water to ease the pain please.
Whatever happened to this team spirit determination and discipline Wenger keeps on about, one minute it`s there next minute it`s not, it`s a fickle as a one night stand.
Charlie, I wish you had not asked me that. I think there is a reason why those two great sides I referred to didn’t find success until the following season. I am dreading what remains of this one because I think a huge psychological blow has been suffered today, and if van Persie is injured, then frankly we are done for unless Chamakh finds his mojo again. We discarded him too quickly, in my humble opinion.
I’m all for keeping things in perspective but this is fast becoming a 6 year old record called ‘cheer up, it’s not that bad!’ Simple question, would any other top 4 side keep a manager who hadn’t won a trophy in 6 years…..
I’m not a Wenger hater by any means but am fed up of this nearly team. Guaranteed this will now end in tears, this team does not have the resolve to win the league and conquer Europe, full stop.
This is football and the best team does not always win (as was the case with Barcelona the other week) but if our ‘hungry’ team cannot beat a Birmingham team full of journeymen for a 1st trophy in 6 years then I just don’t know.
I’m hoping for the best but preparing for the worst……
I just Szczesny bounces back because Almunia is the last thing we need right now
Dear Mr. Wenger,
I watched the match today with hope and expectation like all Gunners worldwide longing for a trophy to crown all your good works for my beloved Arsenal over the years.
I have however come to accept that maybe you are not destined to be a successful trophy winning manager after all,seems you are better at spotting and developing talents turning some of them into world class players.
I consider your lost finals as a bit too much Dear Prof i.e 2000 UEFA Cup Final, 2001 FA Cup Final, 2006 Champions League Final, 2007 Carling Cup Final, 2011 Carling Cup Final. I however thank you for the 1998 FA Cup, 2002 FA Cup, 2003 FA Cup.
I wish you get to the finals of the 2011 Champions League and FA Cup Finals, and you win both trophies because you deserve it,but would need 2 show greater technical supremacy b’cos as much as I hate to say it, Red Nose and Jose are considered greater than you Sir cos they would not have lost most of the 5 finals that you have lost.
‘I have however come to accept that maybe you are not destined to be a successful trophy winning manager after all’
Clearly the three league titles and four FA Cups mean nothing then. And Brian Clough is still a legend even though he won two League Cups in his last 13 years of management (and his last season wound up in relegation) so I think Wenger doesn’t exactly have to worry on the legacy thing whatever else happens.
Please keep in mind after Citeh have drawn at home to Fulham today that we really are the only side who can prevent another United title. It is them or us. It is likely to be them, if I am being honest, but only we can stop them. Let’s get some perspective about the pressures and about why only we, at minimal spend, could catch them, a very expensively assembled squad. Thanks.
Today, I cried for the first time since Paris 2006 today. I’m 18.
‘holic,
I got it on PVR and I’m a Gooner. Bowyer is all alone, knocks it past WS (who was last man), our keeper takes him out. This talk that it is heading for the corner flag and that he never would have got to it is disingenuous and is a red herring. With that logic you wouldn’t even award Bowyer a penalty because he wouldn’t have got to the ball. It’s both a penalty and a sending off that the officials royally messed up. And if it happened to us we would be screaming about it. You included me thinks. I’m a Gooner and an objective one at that.
i’m gutted for “gutted”. don’t worry son, our time will come again and you’ll be old enough to enjoy it.
I wouldn’t award Bowyer anything for being a grade A tosser, but that’s another story.
Why the mystery about the Ashavin substitution?! – 2 reasons: 1:He can’t run for 90 minutes. 2:Wenger threw on our most physical CFs to test their injured CBs. However he forgot to tell anyone that, and the team was too stupid to think of it themselves. Seriously, their defenders could hardly walk, let alone tackle, yet no-one tried to get near them.
Gutted, I still cry, and I’m forty fourteen 😉
Missed the game due to a friend’s kid’s birthday party, which ran longer than expected. Gutted, absolutely gutted that we lost this, but it is for me better than watching us absolutely murder Liverpool in 2001 and get done by two late Mickey Owen goals.
As for the howler between Chezzer and Kozzer, what can you say? Shit happens, even to the greatest of them, much less a couple of guys still working on their understanding.
There’s no time to sit around feeling sorry for ourselves. We’ve got Orient on Wednesday, and I for one think the O’s are in for a bit of a hammering.
Great post again ‘holic.
@ Goonerholic
I love the fact that Wenger has kept our beloved team in the running on a shoe string budget but is that all we want now?? It’s been like that for the last 6 years and every failure is brushed off as a learning experience for a young side who will come good.
What we had today was the embodiment of what the team has lacked for the last 6-7 years, world class defender and world class keeper. Even Stevie wonder has seen that we lacked in that area and today we witnessed the comedy capers that was the 2nd goal!
This ‘brilliant’ team has not won anything recently by accident. There are clear reasons. Arsenal’s defence has been suspect for years so lets keep that in perspective too.
Aussie Jack, Yes it’s very frustrating but let’s not forget our future is front of us and we have the youth on our side. Some more of that youth, in Cesc, Theo, Ramsey, etc., will be there for us in the long run, with any luck.
There are only about two or three world class keepers around at the moment and I think we’ve found a very good No. 1 for now, certainly for the first time since Lehmann I feel like we may have found someone who will work long-term. One mistake doesn’t negate a lot of good work on that front.
This talk of being unable to recover from this body blow is a bit much for me.
‘Holic,
Thanks for the post, the balanced perspective and some of your subsequent later comments. They have helped ease the pain just a smidge. Like you, I’m fearing that the rest of this season may not be ours now but it is an amazing opportunity to see if this team really does have the fabled “mental strength” to bounce back and win something before the end of May.
Dr.C,
Many congratulations. Be sure to drop us all a post soon after the happy day with good news of mother and baby.
A round for all “the sensibles” in the bar from me please Mr. Barman to help them drown their sorrows if that’s what they want to do.
I’m sure the pain will have numbed soemwhat by the time we face The Os. Onwards….
Great poast as ever ‘holic. Personally I thought Brum defended manfully but were outclassed for most of the game. Not for the first time though it appeared that without Cesc we lacked a real cutting edge. In football the best team does not always win, but if you are serious about winning trophies you have to learn how to beat the massed defenders and organised midfields of the likes of Brum. I believe of the top four teams in England right now only Arsenal could lose this final. Mighty disapointed.I’ll take anything with a high alcohol content please.
Don’t know about that, Man City look like they could have done a good job of doing so…
I do rate Szezney and am not suggesting he should shoulder the blame for the teams failings but am just saying we’ve needed a world class keeper for years and have ended up turning to a youth who is yet to produce at the top level and i’m afraid to say, when on the big stage has failed thus far.
I still rate him but my point is that these issues should’ve been resolved years ago. Squilacci is toilet so if Djorou or Kozza (who is very much still learning) gets injured we have Squilacci or Song in the back! Unacceptable when we were challenging on 4 fronts!
Again, I do like Szezeny but am fed up of these reoccurring issues between keeper and defender.
Anyway, can’t wait for today to be over so I can put this behind me. Only Arsenal ay? 4 nil up against newcastle….comedy capers at the back in a cup final…..I can’t take much more of this lol
Dizzle, I suspect we sing from different hymnsheets, but we are defo in the same church. I love the way you come and argue your view logically. I wish more would.
I accept the argument that we excuse more than one reverse with similar arguments, but the same would have applied in years gone by. We lost League Cups in 68 and 69, and went out of the FA Cup to a second division club in both seasons. Any idea who? Oh yes, Birmingham city 🙁
The defence is prone to repeating the same errors i accept. Clichy playing people onside is the most overlooked. Others are easier scapegoats. But at the end of the day we have not got a bad defensive record compared to most this season.
We watch every Arsenal game, wince at every goal we concede, and assume because we don’t watch every other game that our rivals don’t face similar issues. They do actually.
Anyway, welcome, and glad someone who doesn’t agree with me is prepared to engage in civilised discussion of the points.
All the best, fella.
The media are going to be all over us like sharks. I am not looking forward to that in the slightest.
I do not begrudge Birmingham their victory, as while in the end we were the better team, they deserved to still be in the game. When the game is tied with a few minutes left, anything can and often does happen. Chesney and Kos both screwed up, but while I’m willing to forgive them, they have to be willing to forgive themselves and come back stronger. The only plus in this is Jack Wilshere, as he is turning into our best player. Unless someone Shawcrosses him, he has a bright, bright future at the Arsenal.
Great write up ‘holic.
This is truly a great post Holic but you should have included Holicdad’s pearl of wisdom in it.
So yes congrats to Brum first and Ben Foster foremost.
What can you do, this is football. Despite not being at our best we had twice as many opportunitites, our goalie is learning his trade while theirs ends up MOTM, that sums it all.
Now there is no time to let our heads down, with Orient and Sunderland on the horizon, let’s refocus ASAP please.
And of course massive congrats to Catalan, lots of fun in perspective (beyond the first sleepless nights that is ;). We’ll be all very happy to pop the bubbly with you!
Great stuff as always ‘holic
I won’t read the drinks just yet, too down to read what anyone else thinks at the moment.
@Goonerholic
We are definitely in the same church and I’m aware that statistically our defence isn’t that far off the top sides in the league but it is the importance and repetitive nature of our concessions that I find most painful.
I don’t only watch our games and have laughed at utd being spanked by west ham and more recently, Chelsea getting knocked out at home by Everton in a game they should’ve seen out. I am very much aware that other ‘top’ teams are plagued with the odd defensive misdemeanour.
I do however feel that their errors come as more of a surprise and shock whereas ours is becoming more of a ‘well it is Arsenal’ moment.
Lets hope our faith is repaid with some glory this season 😉
Easy solution Theo – just avoid all of it, no point in reading any of it anyway.
I’m just so scared of these 2 weeks. In 2 weeks we can go from challenging on 4 fronts to getting beaten in the final, going out to Barca and Man U.
I don’t know what kind of influence it’ll have on the players if that were to happen.
Was determined to institute a media lock-down, but decided to visit the Bar. Glad I did, no crying into the beer and fortunately precious little ordure hitting the fan. I suspect there’s more than enough of that elsewhere but I don’t intend to check. So I have decided to give up footy, at least until tomorrow at any rate. Thought occurred to me, if we didn’t support a great club, it wouldn’t have been so shocking. I know, see a straw, grasp it. Finished the beer so might as well go to bed.
Holicdad taught you well. Wish more of our church would realise it’s no disgrace to lose a match, even a final, when you have dominated much of the game and one stupid error results in a goal too late in the game to rectify. It was a stupid error but shit happens.
The great teams (and we have been privileged to see three of these in the last twenty years, one built by GG and two built by AW) get themselves in the position to ensure that such errors (or other random strikes by misfortune or the errors of officials) do not impact upon the ultimate result. Without Cesc this is not yet a great team but we are on the way again. It HAS taken a long time, and too many have lost patience with AW but the reasons for ‘underinvestment’ in top quality finished stars have been well rehearsed and need no repetition. We will get there, injuries permitting, maybe even this season.
Believe, Gooners. For God’s sake, cut the crap!
After tonight does any sober Gooner honestly believe we will advance in the UCL having to play in the Camp Nou? Really? The medicine cabinet is down the hallway to the left. TS is the resident medicine man. He will dispense the needed amount of medication.
I’m gonna need copious amounts of alcohol tonight. Alas, my BDay did not go well.
@Dizzle,
Great points. Totally gutted after today, but does that defensive cock up surprise me? NO. As it often is, “it’s an Arsenal moment”. Does the team have the “mental strength” to come back, pick themselves up off the floor, again we’ll see. Supporting Arsenal is like being bi-polar.
Snir,
It certainly is not going to be a springboard to better things. I think it can only have a negative effect in the short term. In the long term, I hope the young team learns from this and uses it as fuel for the future. They absolutely had to have this trophy under the circumstances. It certainly wasn’t the Mickey Mouse Cup to us this time. Not at all.
Tvn
I refer you to last post in last drinks of holics last post, sure you will find it, it still stands
Personally, I believe we got bit by statistics – we were the overwhelming favorites playing a team that hadn’t won a trophy forever ( and I don’t mean 6 years). We beat them twice in the league – took them apart on their own dung heap. They’re at the bottom and we’re near the top – we were dead certs to loose. I knew when both our players got injured in midweek the gods were against us.
I dreaded this final (I am a natural pessimist) ever since they got Obafemi Martins in the January transfer window. I thought him and the tree trunk (Zigic) would cause us trouble. I was there in ’68 and 69 and suffered similarly. Such is life – it might get better, it might get worse – hopefully there is always tomorrow. COYRs
Your wisdom of years is balm for the hurt, as ever, ‘Holic. B’ham scrapped to the end and then had a scrap to feast on. Full marks to them for that. Our boys fought, too. This wasn’t a spineless performance. But football’s basic truth is that the side that scores more goals wins. Everything else is just prologue. That said, we do seem to be able to find ever more inventive ways of giving up goals while drawing the usual blinder from the opposition ‘keeper. Yet had Szczesny been sent off early on he wouldn’t have been on the pitch to spill what would turn into B’ham’s winner. What the gods give with one hand they take away with the other. We can only hope they tore him and Koz down to build them up.
A glass of nectar, if you would, ‘Holic, and for all Gooners in Asgard.
I arrived home from the game about 2 hours ago now. I was greeted by two kids who had been sobbing their hearts out. Neither could explain what they had just witnessed from the comfort of their own living room. My 7 year old wanted Kos sacked for an error his under 8 side would not have made, My 11 year old just wanted to confirm that I had left at the final whistle and not hung about. I confirmed that I had. It was a sad end to a day that had started with such optimism.
Lots has already been said above. For me it was a lot of same old same old. Yet again we have fallen victim to another defensive howler. I accept what you say about our goals conceded record holic but I can not think of any side that has managed to throw away as many points or games as we have with fuck ups. I have not seen any of the game again yet, not sure I am brave enough at the moment but from where I was sitting Chesney looked as if he could have done a lot better with the first? I will stand corrected if I am wrong when I see it again.
I love Tommy R but he is clearly not good enough at this level anymore. I am gutted that we have been robbed of his services due to his injury. There were very few performances of note for me. Jack was again the one stand out player and at 19 possibly the only true leader we had on the pitch. I do not need to bang on about lack of leaders again do I? I thought that AA had a decent game as well. He was one who actually looked as if he would create something.
At the end of the day what really disappoints me is that we have been beaten by the same old mistakes and by a team who just wanted it more. That hurts me. Someone behind me said that without Cesc we lose 20% of our side. The more I see us play without him the more I tend to agree. Without Theo we were again too narrow and had very little pace out wide. I agree with those above that if RVP is out for a period that we have real problems.
To be honest I am shell shocked at what I have witnessed today. It just simply is not good enough and in my opinion totally unacceptable. Let’s not forget, it was only a matter of weeks ago that we played Birmingham on their own dung heap and tore them a new arsehole. I really do not want anymore excuses, and I really do not want to hear AW telling us all that this is the best squad he has ever had. That I find genuinely insulting, especially in light of today.
I am loving all of the if’s and an’s in the drinks. If we beat them and they lose their and what if etc etc. And if your auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle.
I am hurting. I am hurting because we have been undone yet again by errors and with the same weaknesses that we have all identified over 2 years ago. So where now? Well I am another £35 down for a ticket to see the mighty Gunners play the O’s in yet another game that we should not have to be playing. Cheers boys.
I do. Did you think after giving up 4 to Newcastle, we would beat Barcelona. Well we did. But you love to suck up to them anyway so no surprises there
You should have seen the smiles on their ickle blue-nosed faces as they prepared for the long journey back to the midlands from the stadium with silverware in their sweaty hands for the first time since 1876.
That was when I realised that what our buys had done was a good thing, an act of sub-conscious compassion.
“I can’t understand a thing these people in London are saying. They don’t speak English, do they,” he said in as thick a brummie accent as I’ve ever deciphered.
And off they went into the night, wrapped up in blue flags to fend off the cold, not believing they’d be back this way for many years to come.
bernard @ 119,
I am bipolar. Maybe that’s why I am a Gooner. An absolute rollercoaster ride.
Glennw @ #121,
Here’s the script. Give it to TS. Ask for extra strength.
Feeling it here too Steve. The kids will understand in time, but fuck, it doesn’t feel like it tonight, does it?
I am feeling the weight of opinion against picking Rosicky, and concur entirely, but please don’t turn this into a witchhunt. It was a gamble, it failed. I would have done something different, but I have not won three league titles and four FA Cups, so what the fuck do I know?
No killer instinct. You face a crap team, doesn’t matter if they’re playing the game of their lives in the first 20 minutes, you put them to the sword. This should have been One-Nil to The Arsenal (TM) after 20 and 2-0 at the half. Once it wasn’t 1-0 after 20, alarm bells went off in my head. Not easy to do, as they were already doused in Magner’s.
No one person can be blamed: Not Szczesny (though he was awful), not Koscielny (though he was to blame for the 2nd), not Rosicky (though he is done and needs to go). It takes 11 men to win a game (though it helps if one is Fabregas), and this game was lost by 11 men.
Rosicky was picked to add an old head to the mix. Did it work? No, but I understand the theory anyway.
I hope that AW lack of will for the transfer market will not bite our injured arse’s again.i to were of the thought we need to overhaul our defense.AW football philosophy cant be measured with georges AW has a fast tempo attacking score more goals ideal,george played with a regemented back for and his dide was based on this solidity and clean sheets.i wont go into what i prefer because i would love to see a combination of both,I think we are close two or three players away from having a very good squad.my biggest ask would be to rotate players in fewer numbers and like for like.we are the Aresnal we will prevail ive lived through leaner patches get behind our boys solidarity C-MOM ARSENAL
We struggle without Cesc plain and simple. The only player besides him that has the mentality to put the team on his back is Jack and he’s a bit young to carry that burden. RVP, Sammy, Arshavin, are all wonderful, skilled players but they are complementary to Cesc.
Rosicky has not looked like he had it all season. Not his fault, just one of those things. I love the bloke and think it is a great shame.
I have posted my views here several times concerning my feelings. I hate to say this but unless things turn themselves around then many will call for change. I am a big AW fan but like many am getting bored with hearing the same old stuff. His comments about this being his best squad ever are just nuts and a major insult to those who have played previously. How many of this team would get a start in the invincibles???
As I have also said many times before, I really do not feel that we are too many players from greatness. That is what hurts, and sadly I have seen nothing today to make me change my mind.
Yes, it does bloody hurt.
Perhaps the bitterest aftertaste from today is the sense of familiarity about the game. Another loss from another defensive fuck up. Another game where we looked in control with 10 minutes to go pissed away again. Another Trophy lost.
I’m worried. This season seemed different, ’til now. I remember this feeling, and I remember that I’ve felt it before. 2008 felt different too. Until a defensive fuck up against, you guessed it, Birmingham, derailed our season. Please don’t let the same happen thing happen again.
We as fans have waited too long for a trophy, ANY trophy, and I fear that this result is yet another reaffirmation for many that this team just cannot win a competition. The fans belief is sapping, how many here would be surprised if we beat Barcelona in the Champions League, and go on to lose a final against Schalke? How many would be surprised if we beat Manchester United in the FA cup and go on to lose the final against Stoke?
I have tried to be optimistic since 5.40pm today, hearing out those who remind us that we have 3 chances at silverware left this season, but I just cannot subscribe to the belief that we will win any of them. They seem so distant from here.
Dutts,
No disrespect, but the Newcastle debacle was on the road. This recent blinder was on neutral ground. Things aren’t so rosy knowing we are going to the home of the world’s strongest side, likely injured, and they are seeking revenge.
Please follow the sage advice @ #128.
Bernard@119 iam un educated just read my last post @119 fuck it dont make sense and i wrote it
Top write up Holic
just to let you know,
I have been communicating with my Old man upstairs and he told me that there was a Summit meeting of the Footballing Gods on Saturday,at which it was decided that the Arse had to be a bit more patient before getting any Trophies,The Blues had been waiting a lot longer than us,40 odd years or so!! and as it was the only chance they had of winning something,the FG’s gave them the nod.
I am reliably informed that ‘ Our Cup runneth Over’ very soon,in a month with only 3 letters.
Cheers
Clive
I haven’t had a chance to take all the drinks yet so forgive me if repeat what has already been said.
The positives? Jack Wilshere and RVP’s goal. In truth I thought Robin had a fair game overall and apart from an obvious mistake or two so did most of the team and I am not about to apportion blame – I’ll leave that to others.
So what went wrong? Most of our players seemed nervy and a bit tight, overly cautious and played with some fear, so the play didn’t flow as it must with our style. Is our style of play wrong then? I don’t think so, but we must do it a lot better. I have highlighted it before but we must play as well without the ball as with it. The passing must be much slicker – only one touch, not two or three and then make the pass. The more touches that are taken before the ball is played the more time the opposition has to get into covering and marking positions and this happened time and again. It is no good our players standing, watching, waiting for a pass, they must move into space, all the time dragging opponents out of position, creating time and space. Closing down the opposition when they have the ball and winning it back quickly.
Today also showed us how much we depend on Cesc to be the instigator and make things happen. We also missed Theo’s pace and directness but the team must learn to cope without important players because injuries and suspensions will happen.
I am bitterly disappointed that we lost but that is history and what matters now is how we bounce back. We are still in three competitions so must put today behind us, learn from the experience and move on. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.
As an Arsenal Fan, not an Arsene Fan, I clearly appreciate Le Prof’s massive acheivements for us, but surely with us having the 2nd highest wage bill in England, six years with just a beautiful stadium 2 show 4 it is not good enough for my beloved Arsenal.
I think the league is well within our reach, That is if Cesc stays healthy. Depending on how awful Uniteds already awful away form is, we could find ourselves a point back with a game in hand next Sunday. Not too certain about beating United away in the Cup or running through Europe’s finest though.
Hi ‘holic! Yes I’m making waves on the great adventure to Ol’ Brittania front. Aiming for February next year now. Results like today don’t dampen the excitement (however gutted I am) but merely whet the appetite. If I want to go I had best get back to work but first…
Just scrolling through your comments your point about the Clich is a valid one. I love the bloke but he really needs to channel his inner Winterburn and push that yard up with the rest of his back four.
I still think the Kos-Szczeser incident is just one of those things. It could’ve happened against Birmingham in the league. Because it happened in a cup final it’ll make press until we next lift silverware. Unfortunate it happened in a match like this but I back both players to be better for it.
In any case the proof will be in the pudding. Form a prayer circle gooners or whatever it is that brings you luck to get Cesc, Theo and RVP back to full fitness because with them we are still an amazing side. Without all three? Yeah, I worry too. More than I do about an inexperienced back five that has done so well lately and is likely to get better. ’til then come on you reds!
Tvn & steve t
get over yourselves it’s football pure and simple always has been but not as you know it tvn
The only thing I want right now is for AW to say what the injury to RvP is.
I think it’s a minor one (sort of like what Song had against Everton) and hope he plays at the Nou Camp. If not, that would be a big problem, maybe the biggest bar having Cesc/Szczesny injured.
can anyone tell me how much time and effort AW puts into his defense in any training session.interested to have a comparison from the Graham era to now just out of interest.
Sorry gutted gooner but we are 4th in wages well behind Chelsea, shitty and United
We did not lose this game because of Rosicky, Kozzer, or Cheeser. We lost this game as a team. And as much as I hate to say it, this would never have happened to Old Red Nose’s team on a neutral ground. Full stop.
We lack a team with a winner attitude, mental strength, leadership, and ruthlessness. Had we won today a lot of that could be said to be put to bed. Winning begets winning. Silverware begets silverware.
@ Duttlenheim
Very true, Fabregas is the axis of the team. Whats worse is that he will leave at some stage if he can. Days like these can only cast more doubt in his mind about where he should be playing his football and actually building up a portfolio of trophies and awards. Against Stoke mid week, as soon as el capitan went off, the team immediately lost it’s edge and the battle was on!
I feel that Wenger’s faith in these boys is not being repaid. Our 2nd string have gone backwards in my opinion. This year we’ve played what is in effect a rotated 1st team as opposed to our reserve team and they bottle it.
I reckon our boys are allergic to trophies :p
Holic,
More of a reader than a writer – and I’ve been reading your blog for a long time now sir. Please continue the wonderful work.
May I kindly doff my cap to Theo who makes usual sense. A big handshake to “Dizzle” who closely represents my views. And Stevie T who is almost a walking parody of how I feel these days.
As great as the great AW is, and as much as he has done for this club, we simply continue to make the same mistakes year in, year out. For all the progress we make in many areas – we still suffer from the same old short comings.
Reply all you want but I’m off to bed been a long day, same again Wednesday but some do more than switch the tv on!
Glennw.
Not quite sure what your point is? We will all get over it but surely we are all also entitled to an opinion????????
And at this moment it time it fucking hurts…….
The worlds strongest side with a 19 man squad missing pique and puyol. Who is playing in their central defense? Fontas? Lol they will leak at least one away goal maybe more
@Gutted/140: We have the 4th highest wage bill behind Chelski, Citeh and Indebted, the first 2 at least 50% higher than ours (in line with Madrid and Barca).
Posted earlier, read the comments, tried to forget about the game and and move on. Wanted to stay positive. Felt better until the management turned on the television and there is Kos with his head down in the turf after the goal. I walked away while shaking my head, mumbling “How did that happen?” I wish the next game was tomorrow.
@135 – You can do as you like in your bedroom but your screen name is in poor taste.
Enjoyed the game, Birmingham looked great, Foster superb, a back four that died for the teAm. Chin chin mate it might get worse SEe you soon, 20th
@ catalan gunner
being 20 (gunner since 17) i can only say that comment had a huge impact on me.
i’m not a two-faced fan, i always support arsenal and even though everyone including the first 11 can have off days, i admire almost every player
the loss today was ruthless, i didn’t think it was deserved. and i didn’t like the smacks on koscielny, so i’m one who doesn’t think brum deserved it.
but my main point. i’ll be able to look on this day as a darker point in my arsenal history. we can still win, although, in the end, i enjoy the play more than the win
the first time i’ll toast here as a ‘holic.. too many great days and my gooner generation!
Haha, Cus, the only thing we have tonight is the memory of the second-rate sides we murdered to get to Wembley 😉
Cusop, you old dog. Like we want to hear about how well you thought Foster played. Cheers all the same.
with this team and with guys like rosicky , bendtner , denilson we still have 4 chances this season : FA , champion league , premier league and 6/49
Dutts,
Piqué is out on suspension. Puyol will likely be back and should get a run before we play them in the 2nd leg. It could be Abidal and Puyol. If Puyol is out, it could be Abidal & Busquets or heaven forbid (from Pep’s point of view) Abidal & Milito. Milito is their worst CB and I love Kozzer, but I have never seen Milito perform a howler like Kozzer today. Never. If we nick one there, how many do you think they might get? Even if we have a 100% team, which we won’t, we will be on the back foot almost all game. They did us 4-1 there last year and did a manita to their greatest rival there this year. By the way, most people in Europe would say Real Madrid are superior to us.
I admire your enthusiasm but it is blinded with the handbrake off.
Oh btw Valdes is out six weeks too. You’d know that if you managed to pull your lips off their backsides for even a second
As usual a sensible place to visit after a crushing defect….thanks holic and everyone for making me feel better
Valdes’ injury duration is variable. He too could be back. Pinto is a very experienced backup and he certainly won’t be the difference. One could say that, had Pinto played the first leg, he would not have gifted us the first goal that Valdes did. And they could have placed a pylon between the posts last year and they still would have advanced against us. That is quite simply a Rafa faaaaact. Dis is not speculation, dis is faaaact.
And a recent trophy count during Pep’s tenure:
FCB 8
US 0
I don’t think it will be as bad as last year. It can’t. Can it? But, considering Newcastle and today, it could also be worse. Parish the thought.
It isn’t that hard doing it when all you have to fight with is Real Madrid and you have the best playmaker in the world in Xavi and the best player in the world in Messi.
Don’t do those comparisons. They’re just stupid.
But we could also pull a Birmingham against FCB as was pulled against us today. However, we simply do not have the same winning culture as FCB do and may lose our captain to them one day because of it. I don’t think it will happen for other reasons,
BUT
Ask yourself this. If I were Cesc, what would I do?
Why are you even here? There are plenty of Arsenal blogs to spew the negativity. Try Le Grove. So far you’ve backed your ” arguments ” with no logic. Madrid superior to us? Which part? The part where they won 5 European Cups when like 4 clubs entered or the part where they lost 7 consecutive years in the round of 16 including to Arsenal. Or is it the part where they shipped 5 to a team we just beat? Barcelona won 4-1 last year? Do you even realize that almost our entire team that started that match won’t be on the field again. That includes the entire midfield of Cesc – Jack – Song plus no Sylvestre or Almunia. Plus last year they had the advantage and this year we have the lead.
I haven’t even touched on your complete lack of knowledge on how they play. Barcelona don’t exploit our biggest weakness which is aerial threat from crosses, corners, free kicks. They offer no aerial threat whatsoever. They play through the middle just like us and we are one of the few teams that have the fitness and pace to deal with that.
And what does trophy count have to do with next week? Nothing is the answer. Btw Valdes is having surgery and is out six weeks. Pinto is terrible. His only contribution being getting banned two matches for faking a whistle from the referee. That was when he was conceding to Copenhagen……Copenhagen!!!!! Try http://www.totalbarca.com you should be welcome there ……. Good night and riddance
Snir – they won one UCL, World Club Cup, and a UEFA Super Cup from those eight. There is more than just Spanish competition to get those I believe. And to say you only have to beat Real Madrid to get those trophies is the stupid comment. Even if I were to concede that the EPL is a stronger league (which I don’t), but the UEFA coefficient system gives them 4 UCL spots which is only matched by the EPL and Italy (now) or Germany (in the future).
Winning trophies is vital. We blew a big chance at a launching pad today and our growth is stunted yet again. It seems like we are the hampster running around inside the running wheel or living Groundhog’s Day.
TVN
“One could say that, had Pinto played the first leg, he would not have gifted us the first goal that Valdes did. ”
IMHO that goal had more to do with RVP’s powerful shot from an almost impossible angle than being a gift from Valdes.
Dutts,
Objectivity. One word. Objectivity. Ask any knowledgeable neutral footy observer out there. Especially one from the continent. This year’s Real Madrid are superior to us. They won their UCL group. We did not. Excuses are for losers.
Last year’s first leg with FCB. No injuries like the second leg. It was a draw 2-2. It is a well established fact that they outplayed us in our house. Ask a neutral. The first twenty minutes they killed us. Ask Arsene. We were so fortunate to get a draw in that one. And injuries in the second leg? Sure. It happens and to win that type of competition we have to overcome it. Excuses are for losers.
I’m afraid too many of us are resorting to excuses and are accepting less than what we should. We are one of the top teams in Europe in terms of revenue generation but what have we to show for it lately? I’m tired of excuses. It’s high time for some results damn it!
TvN – They won all those trophies cause of Messi and Xavi.
Just like Maradona won the WC. Just like Jordan won the NBA, just like Kobe won the NBA.
Just like Tom Brady won 3 rings.
By having the best players in the fucking game on their fucking team. I could coach that team to trophies. To have Xavi and Messi and not win a trophy would be outrageous!
And since you mention the coefficients, let me point out that EPL is indeed the strongest league in the world and by a pretty good gap too. They will only widen that lead seeing as la liga only had 3 Clubs in the UCL proper and has already had a couple clubs knocked out of Europe altogether. Barca isn’t even the #1 club. They are 3rd and Arsenal are 6th. Not a stretch to think the 6th ranked club could go and get a result with a 1 goal lead heading in.
BTW Obama wasn’t born in Kenya
TvN – You forget one small thing.
The average age of our team is 23.4.
Barca’s is 27.8.
They started winning in 07/08.
3 years ago.
We WILL have a winning mentality, it just needs to be discovered. It will be discovered this season.
Read whatever you like from his comment but I actually liked Cesc’s twitter comment after tonight : Congratulations to Birmingham. This team has great potential and there r still great targets to play for this season. Thanks for ur support.
So don’t jump to early and unnecessary conclusions just yet.
TV5 – that goal was a direct result of Valdes being totally out of position. He should have been on his post and not even giving RvP the chance. Had our inexperienced Polish GK done that we would be roasting him.
Yes objectively speaking, I watched a team who wore down under pressure from a top EPL side and paid for it. Recent studies showed Barca are the smallest team in Europe. We are so used to getting pushed around by the other 19 EPL clubs but Barca is one club that we can bully and we did. They have ZERO bench. Go look at the subs for the first leg. The best they could bring on is Keita and Adriano. Neither are game changers. Pep is running his team into the ground by only carrying 19 players since September. They might be good enough to coast their way past Almeria and Malaga but any of the 4 EPL teams are a handful physically for them. A full season in EPL and they’d have an injury list a mile long.
Valdes was obviously anticipating the cross and got caught cheating. Give credit where credit is due. RVP hit a shot with power and accuracy that very few strikers would even try let alone pull off.
Snir – FCB are more than just Xavi and Messi. Everyone would always pick Messi as a Ballon d’Or finalist. Always. Without team success they would not do the same for Xavi and Iniesta. And last I looked, Villa has scored more NT goals than any Spaniard in the history of the NT. That’s no chump in my humble opinion.
Dutts – those coefficients are over a number of years and not just one. And remember, La Liga has just passed the EPL in terms of marketing revenue. So there’s something to say about that. Consumers speak. And I said nothing about Obama. Put down the crack pipe.
Snir – that’s the problem with us. We are always the young team and always sell are good experienced players to make a profit (Vieira, Cole, Henry, Adebayor, etc.). When is it going to stop? We are forever young! I wanna start winning trophies damn it.
I still don’t understand your fascination with the current Barcelona. If it wasn’t for Ovebro gifting them the match against Chelsea, they’d be us. A team that goes deep in Europe, plays nice football but hasn’t won it. You talk about being objective. All you’ve done is spew about an aging team that is in decline and can’t even make payroll without a 150 million euro loan. And yes they are in decline. 2 years ago UCL winners, last year Semis, this year struggling to make it through the round of 16
No one said he’s a chump. But neither was Scottie Pippen.
You get my drift.
They’re more than Messi and Xavi but just like in every other game – The best player and the most dominant (in this case – by far) player in the game wins.
FCB wins trophies cause they have the best playmaker and the best player (obviously things derive from the fact that they’re on the pitch – such as defenders coming out, sitting deep etc.).
TvN – We’ll win once we’re ready. We’re ready this year. We’ll win a trophy, I’m sure of it.
And if not, then next year, providing we keep this team together and bring quality (!!!) reserves that will run their socks off when AW does his rotations.
There you are with the marketing revenue crap which proves nothing. It only proves why EPL is stronger. EPL split all television revenues which leads to a much stronger league top to bottom. In La Liga , Barca and Real negotiate their own TV deals which dwarf the 18 other clubs. ( BTW Barca’s TV company, mediapro, is in bankruptcy ) So before the season even starts only two teams have any shot of winning La Liga. At least in EPL a team in 13th the previous season can think about a Europa spot.
And I know how the coefficients work thanks. They are over 5 years
Dutts,
What I saw in the first leg is not that we physically manhandled them, wore them down, out paced them, etc. What I saw was that they clearly won the first half and we were lucky to only be down 0-1. They controlled the match until Pep took Villa off and put Keita on. Valdes gave us a gift for the first one and we caught them on the second. As for their bench, they have the likes of Mascherano (Argentine NT captain), Keita, Afellay, Bojan (their version of a small Bendtner), Thiago, Adriano, etc. They don’t have to be physically big to do well in Europe. They don’t play in the EPL so talk of how they would do in it is irrelevant. And remember, the game is officiated differently in UEFA competition. I wished the EPL were officiated in a more modern, less rugby like way. You get away with murder in the EPL.
I credit RvP for being a fox and a fine strike. But it was first and foremost a GK howler. Ask any coach.
None of those bench players are game changers. You gonna bring in the Argentinian NT captain to get a goal when you’re down? Didn’t think so. I know who Bojan is and he hasn’t done anything all year and there are even rumors of him leaving …. For Arsenal. Don’t even get me started on Thiago who is already better than Cesc. Just ask any Barca blog
It’s a man’s game. If you want ballet, go watch the NFL where they put on 40 pounds of protective gear just to play rugby.
177 – Decline? Last year they were upset in the SFs after a first leg where they had to endure a 17 hour bus ride due to an Iceland volcano blowing its top. We might upset them this year. But every neutral will tell you it would be an upset (but that’s footy). The bookies too. Chel$ki keep crying about 4 penalties. That’s subjective. They were cowards to park the bus in the first leg and didn’t deserve to advance. Then in the final they took care of Old Red Nose 2-0. Good on them for that too. And decline? Last year they had 99 points (a record for 38 round league). They are on pace for that too this year and setting a goals scored and goal differential record. Not bad. Very nice. Good technique. Fascination, not so much. Respect where it is due … yes. We shouldn’t get giddy over a 2-1 first leg lead. Statistically, teams in their spot (1-2 with 2nd leg @ home) advance 51% of the time. And this isn’t an average UCL team. Ask a knowledgeable neutral, Arsene, Jose and if you want to put serious coin on us advancing then be my guest.
There are goals on that bench that you underestimate. Afellay can score and assist, Keita has scored a hat trick in a La Liga match before, and Bojan is a speedy option who can score and has in the past. Plus, if they go down, they can change formation and tactics (like taking a CB off for another mid or forward for example). Ninety minutes on that larger pitch surrounded by 100K rabid fans is no picnic. Even if we score the first goal that day. Jose’s team has more counter attacking pace than we do (Ronaldo, di Maria, Ozil … they’re young too) and couldn’t score there and got a manita for their trouble.
Keep your coin in your pocket Dutts. Better to spend it on liquor watchin’ the match me thinks.
99 points isn’t a record. Celtic has done 103 a few years back. Of course la liga is about as balanced as SPL so there you go
38 round record Dutts (20 team league). SPL doesn’t have 20 teams and their UEFA coefficient is far from Spain’s. No team in the history of the EPL could have snatched 99 points in La Liga last year. Sorry. None. Ever. Never ever.
Seems like you’re on a mission to disrespect a foe very worthy of respect. We disrespected an opponent today, no?
@Theo
“I’m afraid too many of us are resorting to excuses and are accepting less than what we should.”
HAHAHAHAHA
oh really now?
Thanks for your posts and for stating out the obvious. If it makes you feel better about yourself, great, I hope you feel its time well spent. Otherwise, who cares?
ivan – help yourself to the best medicine from the cabinet down the hallway.
Dutts – how’d you let riff raft like ivan in? Anyway, have yourself a few late night nightcaps on me. I’m going to have one last double JD to help me sleep. We’re on the same team even if you don’t think so.
Just heard that we have now lost 5 League Cup Finals (a record). That’s one more than ManIOU. Not happy about that either. But hey, it’s better to have gotten there and lost than to have never gotten there in the first place. There’s a saying like that about love too isn’t there? Well, that’s me being the “glass is half full” optimist.
Go you Gunners! Up the Arse! And all that jazz …
Never cried the way i did last night, 20 and have seen Arsenal loose 3 finals and win one! Somebody had posted that this is the Swindon and Ipswich of my generation, couldnt agree more, have cried my heart out already and cannot stop! Destiny is a bitch ..
Keep the faith, not in Wenger or Fabregas but just in the Arsenal that has brought us so many happy memories and sad nights! Its gonna be tough for fans to get over this loss, forget about players like Chezzer, Kozzer and Wilshere recovering from it, lets hope we finish in top4!
Absolutely gutted..
But, we have to look up..somehow find some hope. Otherwise, what’s the point of supporting a football club?
I hope RVP is not injured for long.
I hope Kos and Woj forget about the mistake and learn from it.
I hope Chelsea do us a favour against the mancs.
I hope AW and cesc will this team on to win, coz, I feel only they can.
I hope this defeat, has a positive rather than a negative effect.
I hope, in the coming weeks, our players just fight with heart and not worry about the results. We were, again, afraid to lose last night..Fear of losing has become a big factor I feel, for this team
Theo, I respect your opinion on football. But, your excessive praise for Barcelona is, frankly, annoying.
They are the best side in the world?- Agree
We won against them because they gifted us the game?- Strongly disagree – I don’t know which Arsenal fan would agree
We have absolutely no chance against them at camp nou? – Disagree
Are Barca the best club in the world?- No, that’s Arsenal 🙂
Drinks are on me, barman
The only thing i fear how much of an effect this going to have on the team, i am really not so worried about the loss as someone said, even if we did win it, the media wouldnt have given us so much credit because its the least famous cup, but i am worried abt the following things -:
1. This has been our first defeat since the new year, hopefully its the last of them.
2. The teams confidence, which include 2 individuals espically chessney and kosc and also DJ, they couldnt have picked a worse day to come up with blunders, i hope those 2 buck up and come out on top, they both are young and how wenger handles them is going to be v v impt.
3. Fabregas, he had waited so much for that moment of lifting that trophy, and he must be abs gutted, there were reports that the fitness coach had passed fabregas to play for this one, but AW very strictly dint allow it.. How he must be feeling ATM i wonder..
4. V Persie injury is a cause of concern, although he did play on for the next 30-40 mins, i think wenger subbed him expecting to play ET, hence the fresh legs and penalty takers were on the field.
5 We have barca coming up we have really got to to pick ourselves up, i just for a moment thought the moment got to this arsenal team of a cup, Jack looked devastated in the pic tweeted, and he should be he really played so well and is heart out, and trust me i have been in that position, there are times when i have played so well in my team, only to loose, it really feels awful, trust me..
It really quite frankly depends on wenger now how wenger picks the team up, they are a v young team and sometimes to pick youngsters up from failure is v difficult, hopefully players like fabregas, v persie, clichy, all the senior members play their part in lifting jack kosc, and chessney they really need it.
Saddened and frustrated by yesterday’s events, I turned to you for a measured, thoughtful perspective on the game, ‘ holic. Thank you so much for providing that. Here’s hoping the players can pick themselves up for the remainder of the season.
Great post ‘holic. Wise words.
TVN…
I suggest you head off to gunnerblog with all that repetitive comments of yours. Stringer knows and respects highbury the likes of them would gladly welcome you.
I thought that the sanctuary of this bar might be a good place to start after a tossy and turny night of if only’s and a few what if’s as well.
Good to see sense being spouted from the top man, with useful additions from Bathgooner, Dizzle, Steve T, et al.
Probably the most ridiculous thing is that the rebound off Shezney’s knee following the misunderstanding could have gone anywhere, but no, in a very Arsenal way, it rolls gently into the stride of the advancing Martins, presenting an opportunity that even the great John Jensen would have found difficult to miss.
Ho hum. A whole competition pivots on that single moment. 🙁
Yes of course it’s disappointing, but we are Arsenal when we win and Arsenal when we lose.
I expect a backlash against the O’s in 48 hours bouyed by the knowledge that the deeply indebted are indeed catchable.
Right you lot – its over and we lost
AW must revitalise the team to beat the Os and if he got someone else to pick it and place players in the right positions that might help.
Helpful hints
1. Aaron is back as of this week, so there is no need to play Rosicksickeeee any more
2.Sami plays better behind the attack than on the wing
3. NB52 is ok playing on the wing and does know how to centre
4. Aaron , Cesc and Jack to hold a teach-in on looking up when with the ball, to find our runners (Sami, AA Eboue Alex all please attend)
5 Gael to improve his looking down the line for holding the off side trap
6. AA must come back faster when the ball is lost
7. All defenders grow 6 inches (OK I dream)
8 Better rotation of MC so that he gets his confidence back – 10 minutes a game are not enough
Holics add your hinits and heres to a happy FA cup run
Great perspective as usual ‘Holic.
On which note, first off, it has to be congratulations to Catalan – very best of health to you all!
Kos and Szczesny have been great recently – two games ago folk were talking of Kos as a potential new Tony Adams – and there is to be no slating of either here.
The galling thing is that despite their great ability, the damage was done by an apparant lack of communication, which is so aviodable.
For this reason, I cannot agree with Matt and Matt yesterday that we were just unlucky.
It is not ‘unlucky’ to leave a 6’8″ centre forward alone in your 6 yard box when your oppo’s game plan is to find him at every opportunity.
Sure no-one can outjump Zigic, but following the retro theme of the main post, Frank McLintock and Peter Simpson found ways of marking and impeding (legally) far bigger forwards than themselves.
It is not ‘unlucky’ when two professional footballers, under no immediate pressure, cannot communicate to each other which of them is taking the ball.
However, it was also clear from their reactions, that the two players in question were at least as upset as we fans were.
Let’s hope that the experience is finally, please finally, a lesson to the team, and that it drives them forward with even greater concentration and determination.
That will be one good thing to come out of this defeat.
The other is to see, as with L Orient recently, how much football still means to fans who have waited, sometines, decades for any measure of success.
So while condemning the morons at Birmingham who still chant Martin Taylor’s name at us, good luck to the decent one’s on yesterday’s triumph.
Let’s enjoy ours just as much, when it comes.
Finally, my dad used to know Pat Rice’s dad when Pat was Arsenal captain in the seventies.
Pat was the first to recognise that he was not the most gifted footballer, but worked his Arsenal socks off, to be the very best that he could.
His love of Arsenal and sense of history and belonging to the club are not easily acquired.
Or replaced.
Cheers ‘Holics. Here’s to Wednesday night.
Hi Holic and Holics,
I’ve taken a break lately as my harsh words of support for Arsenal and Holic pound returns have warranted both myself and fellow Holics a break.
Great post again Holic and I agree with you and enjoyed your reminiscence of the yester-years regarding this great club, which many of us are unable to do.
Most of us are spoilt from the Wenger years and although we deserved to be the winners yesterday, we didn’t have an automatic right.
It was a cruel mistake which gave us no time to respond! A late goal on either side was going to kill the tie! However without our added quality to give us that extra edge yesterday, we would have been lucky to make it in to extra time
Anyway here are the key contributory factors in my opinion:
1) The Omission of Fabregas
2) The Substitution of RVP
3) That late goal
Here is what we need going forward:
1) Our so-called second string to play at the same tempo as our first string. We were too slow and predictable yesterday. It doesn’t matter who plays as long as the tempo is Arsenal-esque
2) We need to take out our frustrations on every team we play from now until the end of the season starting with Little Leyton.
3) We need to despatch Manure and Barca and send a message to everyone else that although we can no longer achieve the Quadraple, we can still achieve the triple.
It may be a big ask, but I believe that if we can despatch Barca and Manure in the CL, FA and PL this season plus win out other games, which is do-able, we will be back on track again!
Up the Arsenalage!
Teas all around!
Goonertown – “Quadraple”
Is that some kind of sexual assault. If so, please leave now!
Cusop – surprised you weren’t enjoying a weekend in Blackpool.
What? Oh no.
Trev,
I knew there would be one. Besides the spell checker said it was okay! 🙂
…I said we would have been lucky to make it in to extra time. I must stress that had we done we would have been the winners. The other side tired and couldn’t play another second let alone 30 minutes of ET.
Ah well….lets go fourth
A bit bogged down by work so I haven’t had the time to catch up on the drinks yet so maybe I am just reiterating points already made, but here are my two pennies’ worth of thougts:
Firstly, I agree with everything the ‘Holic writes. Spot on on all accounts. Fair play to Birmingham, they deserved the win and played what was probably the best game of the season, and quite possibly their best game for several seasons. Congratulations for that, I don’t like Alex McLeish and Lee Bowyer should not be allowed near a football pitch but their team was better than ours. No excuses, nothing to hide behind. All we can do now is learn from our mistakes.
As I said before the game, winning the Carling Cup or not is not really the issue here. I wanted us to get some winning experience, but that failed. The crucial thing now is how we react to what happened and now I am talking not only about the players, I am talking just as much about us fans because we can play a large part in how the season pans out. Will we dig ourselves into a hole and mope around feeling sorry for ourselves or will we use this to push us on in search for revenge? I certainly choose the latter, I made sure I wore both an Arsenal t-shirt and an Arsenal jacket to work today. We were knocked down yesterday, but I sure as hell won’t stay down. Yes, me wearing Arsenal clothing to work in Stockholm is in itself not going to change anything, but if we all show our support in any way we can, wherever we are, it will make a difference.
I haven’t yet read very much about the game so I don’t know too much of what has been said by Wenger and the players, but I did see that Wenger said something along the lines of not letting one game ruin 38 and that is what both players and supporters must understand, and I mean REALLY understand and not just say it. There is nothing we can do about yesterday, it’s been and gone. Wallowing in despair and self-pity or looking for scapegoats will get us absolutely nowhere. Use the disappointment to drive us on, and those who attend the games as supporters can sing louder and give the players encouragement and roars of approval for every good thing they do and not boo every time they make mistakes. If someone doesn’t give 100%, then by all means boo your head off but in my mind, players who try their best deserve our support – perhaps now more than ever. This is not about being blind to shortcomings, this is about driving the players on, about doing what we can do for the team.
In short: don’t let yesterday derail us.
A cup of tea, please.
Cheers Trev. Did you find the beer?
Catalan – Congrats my fellow holic. A toast for you and the wife and the new gooner!
Gutted here as well, the most annoying thing is those LWC’s lurking everywhere just to stab you in the back. What a bunch of cunts!
It’s part of football to win and loose of course we can’t win them all, very disappointed with lads it was Birmingham after all. It worries me a bit beacuse as soon as Cesc is not playing we are a different team and it shows.
I’m going back to my hiding whole Holics a cup of strong tea please and a dash of cows juice please Boss!
Catalan, congrats to you and your wife hopefully this one will be a Gooner 🙂
Meh.
A half full glass of your best Mergaux, barman…
Catalan, Congratulations on the young gooner hopefully to be. If the young one turns out to be a Barsalite all will be forgiven I’m sure (?????)
Of course I meant Margaux and not Mergaux.
Stupid iPhone.
Here’s to Dr. C Junior! (His does “CJ” sound to you? :-))
Can anyone please explain to me something about Matchday revenue?
For all I know the matchday revenue is made out of the tickets and other stuff (such as confectionery and merchandise), but isn’t AFC sold out for the whole season by the start of the season?
If so, why is it that they project a large income from the 30th of Nov. to the end of the season (the 2nd half of the season) from Matchday revenue? Haven’t they got all the money from the tickets already?
SG
They will only recognise revenue when it is realised. In theory, if they stopped trading today, they would have to refund all the advanced money. So all money received in advance stays in the balance sheet as a creditor and ‘converted’ to sales on each match day. (I was an accountant in a previous life, zzzzzzzzzzz)
What makes this more painful is, i HATE Birmingham even when we’ve beaten them. What i feel now is beyond hatred for the ****ing hoofers.
Stone Roses –
How is it ‘converted’ on each matchday? According to what? If it’s money they’ve already received from the purchase of the Season Tickets, how do they ‘convert’ it on each matchday?
SG
Lets treat it simply. Suppose the season is two matches, and each match had revenue of £1.
The day before the first game, the accounts would be £2 in the bank, and £2 owing to season ticket holders (because if the games arent played, the money would be refunded).
After the first game, there would still be £2 in the bank, but now only £1 owing to season ticket holders, and £1 ‘realised’ as revenue.
After the second game, there would still be £2 in the bank,but now nothing owing to season ticket holders, and £2 realised as revenue.
Its called double entry, invented I believe, by some monk in the 14th century. Its a clever system, but pretty confusing to most people. In fact I know a few accountants who never quite grasped it!!
You know when you order something for the house, say a fridge. You order it from Comet and pay for it even though it wont be delivered for ten days. Comet hold that money as owing to you, and only convert it to revenue on the day your fridge is delivered.
SR
I think I get ya now, thanks for expalining it to us, nice one. A large drink for SR please Barman! 😉
@ Norfolk Dumpling on 28 Feb 2011 at 12:23 am
Brilliant post. Exactly what I have been musing on. When we play quickly, move the ball quickly, close down quickly, no-one can live with us and everythign else about our game seems to fall into place. When the old handbrake comes on, or we’re a bit tired, we play more slowly and teams have a chance. Cesc forces us to play quickly, which is why we struggle without him sometimes – it’s not just his passing range or his vision. Others can orchestrate, but nobody consistently speeds up our game like Fabregas does. And he nearly always goes forward and inspires RvP, JW and Nasri to do the same.
@ shon
I don’t know what sort of defensive coaching AW does, but I do know that we concede fewer goals per game under Arsene than under GG. I also know that 16 teams have a worse defensive record than ours this season and that the only team above us in the league has the third best defensive record. One game with costly defensive errors does not invalidate all the great work which has brought us victories and clean sheets recently.
@ Goonerholic
Great post, but I’m not sure I would say the first half belonged to Brum. Half of the first half is as far as I’m prepared to go!
‘Holic@108: We watch every Arsenal game, wince at every goal we concede, and assume because we don’t watch every other game that our rivals don’t face similar issues. They do actually.”
So true. You could probably make a rather long compilation video of huge howlers that Edwin van der Sar has made over the years and yet people still seem to think that he never makes any mistakes.
TvN@155: why is that name in poor taste?
TvN@188: “Last year they were upset in the SFs after a first leg where they had to endure a 17 hour bus ride due to an Iceland volcano blowing its top”
So, after saying our injury list last year was no excuse it is all of a sudden ok to excuse Barca going out to Inter due to a bus ride? As much as some underestimate Barca, I think you overestimate them. Yes, they dominated the opening of the game at the Emirates this year and last, and both times the tired in the end. Their pressing game is a lot more energy-consuming against us than perhaps any other team in the world. And lucky that Valdes gifted us a goal? Well, isn’t Valdes part of their team? A chain is never stronger than it’s weakest link, remember. They are still favourites to go through, but nowhere near as big favourites as you seem to think.
Snir Geuli@217: in addition to what Stone Roses said, the games are not sold out at the start of the season, far from it. Thousands and thousands of tickets are sold only a few weeks ahead of any given game.
Great post btw Holic.
Whereas the 2 Centre Halves were shipped out after the 1969 & 1988 Finals due to their mistakes in the loss of the Finals, it won’t happen with AW. If anything they’ll be rewarded with extended & overpaid new contracts. Mediocrity is rewarded at Arsenal that’s why there’s a lack of a winning mentally. Just look at the Diability & Denilshite experiment. What have those 2 contributed in the last 5+ years at Arsenal? I’m not picking on those 2, there are several other’s.
Give me Jack Wilshere any day of the week. The kid lives & breathes Arsenal. He has courage, drive, commitment & he cares. The only who’s had a go verbally at Barry Ferguson for tapping Koz on the head after the defensive cock-up. I hope with Ramsey back in the squad, we now see him higher in the pecking order than Rosicky & the D&D double act. Like Jack, Ramsey has a fire in his belly, something a lot of our Players don’t have. It would be great to see Aaron be given a start v Orient on Wednesday.
Wenger has lost his last 3 Finals, no tactics & no consideration for the opposition. He’s forgotten how to win. Apart from RVP, Cesc & Clichy, no one else has won anything at Arsenal. Wenger has 3 months this season to show us why AKB.
I then visit Arsenal.com this morning & the lead story is Ivan Gazidis talking about Financial Results. I feel like I support some Accounting firm or the Bank of Arsenal.
“winning mentality”…should be
Lars,
The original comment at #155 was from another username that had something to do with a person’s sexual preference and Jack the Lad. I found it in poor taste. I suppose ‘holic did too and removed the original #155.
No need to go through all the Barça stuff again. Let’s just hope for the best ‘holics.
If you’re looking for actual news/information on Arsenal.com, you’re in for a disappointment. Like all official club sites, there’s a reason we call it pravda.com.
And please let’s give the Barcelona stuff a rest. We’re not playing them until next week anyway and arguments about how good they are/the game last season have long since been run into the ground.
Back home, good write-up, holic, Thanks!
Whisky please.
Arthur,
thats the first time I have EVER been bought a drink for trying to explain double entry, I mean, that sort of thing just doesnt happen!
Evening all.
Have managed so far not to slit my wrists. 🙁
And, ‘holic, you may ask, what is Ancelotti’s policy about air rifles in the training ground? Cashley says he “missed” so was he trying to shoot Terry, Abramovich, or someone else?
TvN & Lars, the ‘objectional’ screename is still there, it’s @ 135.
Can’t say that i’m overkeen on it either, perhaps I just don’t get it.
Homosexual humour isn’t one of my strong points i’m afraid, perhaps that’s why I don’t find the overwhelming percentage of the humour on Little Britain or the latest wheeze called ‘Come fly with me’, (or something like that), funny.
Homophobic? No, don’t be daft. A spade’s a spade and all that jazz 😉
About 48 hours before the best kind of medicine commences ‘holic. 🙂
Maybe less if the bus stop residents comply with instructions 😉
Funny that you call it the bus stop… We ‘ve (family) always called it the ‘coal yard’.
It was a coal yard for the rail Co’s before Chelsk came into being.
MtS,
You’re right. It’s still there @ #135. I could have sworn that at some point last night it was removed. I suppose, with all my anger and disappointment at yesterday’s result, I thought it was removed.
There’s no need to state one’s sexual preference and a player in the same screen name. Poor taste. And I stand by it. It denotes an unneeded connotation between the poster and the player. Anyone can do what they want to in their own bedroom as they please as it is their right (including AFC supporters, AFC players, AFC management, etc). I don’t care about anyone’s sexual preference. There’s need to go around flag waving it, however. Keep it to yourself. We are all Arsenal.
What happened with Birmingham fans and this blog?
LOLS (Reply to 150 odd post)
2nd rate side, was not even 2nd rate from what I remember we put a 4th side and made up of potential loanees!
I am desperately trying to acquire a ticket for our next encounter it is sure to be a good one.
But when the pundits . Hanson and co. Keep pointing out your Achilles heel. We continue to celebrate. It is gratifying to see the pain on the faces of those that have Laffed at us for so long.
Yet we still have plenty of time to do what spurs does best and that is fall on our swords at the wrong moment.
My prediction for the rest of the season
Manure, Spurs Arsenal, Citeh and then a bankrupt Chavsky ground sharing with a Championship Spam.
Of course I did have magic mushrooms for lunch
Cusop my old china I still haven’t finished laughing at winning the Title at the lane for a second time which correct me if I’m wrong is as many times as you’ve won it in your entire sad history and don’t even get me started on that pidgeon stood on a basketball as a badge 😉 I suppose you nearlly won the Olympic stadium which is quite a succesfull season for your lot but as per normal you got pippef on the line ( Was the Announcer heard to say pick up your tickets for cup final day) – I cannot wait till you try and build your own ground your go through the leagues quicker than Leeds,
He who laughs last and all that, Roll on the trip to the Marsh.
Cusop, So glad to see your sense of humour. You must need it!
Ancelotti, how can he defend the indefensible? God is the only player that doesn’t bring a rifle into the changing room! That organisation makes me sick, but not that sick that I dont want them to win tomorrow.
Cusop, you actually played far from a 4th side – it wasn’t even an out and out second string team. Assou-Ekotto, Bassong, Palacios, Bentley and Pavlyuchenko all started and from the second half on you had Lennon and Keane on the pitch as well.
SR,
1) Tomorrow only I’ll definitely take CFC (ComicRelief Football Club).
2) Come on the positivity. Who ever accomplished anything without it?
Still laffing cus 😉
Play nicely boys, he’s ok…
Every dog has it’s day, so well done Birmingham, hopefully we’ll experience one of our own before the end of this season. Big job ahead in order to achieve it though, perhaps Cashley and his mates can help tomorrow night.
Where would the media and especially Talkshite be without Arsenal? I have avoided all day, but have heard from others that it’s been non-stop slaughtering of AW and the team. Maybe they are given ammunition, but they do seem to take great pleasure.
A drop of red please barman.
CoYRRR’s
Vela scores for West Brom. Is it the goal that keeps them up?
Barman, a shot of tequila please to toast Vela and quell the cough I picked up in his native land.
With a worm, bt8bbnn? 😉
Ya beat me to it 8ball. A toast to Vela. He’s on a roll. Get over that bug soon. *raises a pint of the real black stuff*
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Robin-Van-Persie-all-but-ruled-out-of-Arsenal-s-crucial-Champions-League-return-leg-against-Barcelona-article709059.html
I have a feeling he’ll play.
A swollen knee is not enough to rule someone out IMO. Nothing a shot won’t cure.
‘holic, a wise man in Mexico told me that not all the live worms they place in tequila bottles are tequila resistant, so I would reluctantly demure on this one.
I am still hurting. Today has not been a good day.
I feel ya Steve T – Drink on my tab.
No, it hasn’t been a good day but we have to go on. Cue up the marching music.
Sorry Steve. Made more bearable for me by the new car I picked up this morning. Small solace 🙁
Holic,
Do you think I need to leave the match against Sunderland in the 80th minute or something like that? I have a 18:00 train back to Edinburgh and as opposed to the flight I seriously can’t miss that.
The train is from King’s Cross and you said it’s about 7-8 so should I wait till the match ends or should I take no risks?
At match end you may get ‘traffic-managed’ at stations, Snir. I really don’t know the score because I always have a drink first, unless it is an evening fixture. All I would say is if you walk down to Highbury and Islington briskly at the final whistle, you should be ok. I have never left the Grove from Arsenal station so don’t know what the queues are like…
…and now I am gorn. G’night all.
Drowning my sorrows with Guinness and Glenkinchie at the moment. Getting over yesterday and an opportunity for the club to lift silverware on my BDay. Opportunity lost = opportunity cost.
Happy days ahead I hope. Can’t believe I’m cheering on the Kremlinites tomorrow. But it is a necessary evil. Pick one Evil Empire over another. Duty calls. A pint of some more of that black stuff if you please.
I’m sorry Gooners, but if RvP is out of the 2nd leg, along with our other injury concerns, how the HELL are we going to pass FCB???
Pass the Pepto Bismol Extra Strength please. And let us prosper somehow domestically please.
Go you Kremlinites tomorrow!!!
Bendtner is not the answer. And how AW picks him before Chamakh I’ll never know. Bendtner’s first touch is apocalytic!
Theo, re your question in #260, I don’t know but that’s why we’ll watch the game. And, if we win, lord knows how we will celebrate. First, let’s properly dispose of Leyton Orient. Now, as so properly stated by the maestro, G’night all.
Forgiving my misspelling, my point still stands. I’m very, very, very hammered at the moment. Even if you’re Chinese you can get my meaning …
*hiccup*
No offence to the Chinese community, heaven forbid, and the leftist BBC like for that matter.
Go you bloody Gunners!!! Go!!!
If we pass the FCB test I will rightfully be eating crow. But if that doesn’t happen, I will bet dollars to donuts that not one Gooner nor ‘holic will buy me a real drink.
And let’s call a spade a spade. Nobody cares a lick about Lorient and the FA Cup. Any real footy fan worth his modern salt cares about the UCL. Full stop. And that’s a Rafa phaaaaaaact. Ban me if you wish. I love Arsenal and those are the cold hard phaaaaacts. We better start living up to them.
RVP’s right foot, will you be going to Barca then ? 😉 Please tell me you are…
Snir. If you leave straight at the final whistle you should be more than fine. Walk back to either Finsbury Park or Highbury and Islington, whichever is closest from your place in the ground. You should have ample time to make kings cross.
Enjoy the new motor Holic. Let’s hope some of our lot have had a bit of a service and a tune up before Wednesday evening?
Morning Hlolics….
We needs Chavs to do us a favour today without a doubt!
Well done to the new motor Holic, it’s always nice to get a new one of those 🙂
Tube stations may be closed for some time anyway, that’s what happened at the CC game against Wigan, but that was an eveing fixture.
Come on Holics chin up, nothing confirmed about Van Persie being out of Barca second leg. Let’s chill and wait for some proper news from pravda.com
We all hate to loose especially a final and especially to a team like Birmingham. I do think everything happens for a reason, we may well be in for a very big suprise yet this season.
For now let’s get behind the lads they need us now more than ever!
Come on you RIP ROARING!
‘And let’s call a spade a spade. Nobody cares a lick about Lorient and the FA Cup.’
Well by that rather bizarre logic, then surely even less people would care about the League Cup and Sunday’s result didn’t matter. But that’s complete nonsense. Of course people care about the FA Cup (as horribly predictable as it’s come in the last 10-15 years) and I’ll be very happy if we can make it past Orient and Man Utd and put ourselves into the semi finals. If football was just about the league and European Cup 99% of football fans would probably give up supporting their teams.
Any chance Mr Cole could be allowed to use his air rifle tonight?
Any time Rooney got the ball, Ashley could ‘accidentally’ shoot him in the arse..
Szczesny is going to be a big player for us for many years…was impressed how he picked himself up after the gaffe to urge his team on…and the sight of him comforting Wilshere just showed what a top confident player we have got…unlucky on the goal but i think him and all the players we have got will get us over the line victoriously come the end of this season…
Snir, as Steve T says, you should be fine, but yes it’s tight.
If you are at the top of the upper level then yes, it’s probably wise to start making a move around 87 minutes.
If I were you I would walk to Highbury & Islington station, 10 – 15 mins, but here will be a queue of about 5 – 10 mins to actually get into the station, then there’s the 7 mins or so journey, a further few mins to transfer platforms to the Edinburgh one… so about 40 mins.
But if you leave at final whistle it can also take several minutes to get out of the ground, so best not cut it too fine.
Enjoy and shout your head off 😀
@Harsha 256
I wish I could say “yes”, but I don’t believe it myself :-S
Is that tab of yours still open, Harsha? 🙂
Snir,
if you go to finsbury park main line which is same place as finsury park tube the train will take you into kings x main station no need for running round tube tunnels, your Edinburgh train will leave from platforms 1 to 8. Train times from fin park to the cross are as follows.
FP 17.02 kx 17.10
FP 17.08 kx 17.19
FP 17.17 kx 17.25
FP 17.21 kx 17.31
FP 17.32 kx 17.40
FP 17.38 kx 17.50
last one might be to tight for comfort! As you seem to get about a bit a handy website for you would be the trainline, you can plan your journey, train times etc on it you can also book your tickets on it. Hope info is of some use to you, have a good trip
Thank you so much Holic and Holics. A drink on my tab.
Can someone please explain what the hell pravda.com is ? All I see is a weird page and I can’t see any news even when I search things.
@Snir
By Pravda.com we mean of course Arsenal.com, the official website.
Pravda ( I think it means “Truth in Russian or in Polish, I’m not so sure anymore) was the official newspaper of the communist regime in the USSR during the cold war era.
It was the main propaganda tool for the communis regime, its “editorial stance” was “Our great nation is Heaven, everything is perfect and there is absolutely nothing wrong with our glorious regime”.
The parallels with Arsenal.com are err… interesting. 🙂
Barman, a fine Vodka of your choice, please.
Budem zdorovy!!
Snir, pravda.com is the nickname we use for arsenal.com. Pravda (which means “the truth” in russian) was the name of the offical newspaper for the Soviet government. It was, obviously, full of nothing but the truth and since arsenal.com – like any other offical club site – isn’t always too keen on reporting the negatives this name has caught on in this bar. It might actually have been me who started it, but then again it may very well have been in use before I started visiting this bar.
And as for getting to Kings Cross, I would go with Glennw’s suggestion. You should have no problems making the 17.32 train, I’d say you have a good chance of making the 17.21 one as well.
There’s also a bar called “Pravda” in Dublin, near the Ha’penny Bridge across the river from Temple Bar. But I don’t think that’s what the holics were referring to.
🙂
Pravda is definitely a Russian creation and it definitely means “The Truth” at the time it certainly wasn’t, they fed people with fear. I believe Lenin was behind it to start with.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda
So what do Holics think of the score line for tonights game? It would be nice for the Chvs to beat them 1:0 nothing more.
UG, I believe you are correct about Szczesny. Our nerviness at the back is generally much reduced with him around. Djourou has also been massive throughout the season with very few exceptions. All in all our team is quite different from this time last season, and much improved. If only the injuries had not returned….
ATG – 1-0 with lots of red cards and injuries.
bt8bbnn – Not only are we injured (RvP, Theo etc.) but Xavi made a miraculous comeback that cunt.
We really really need Theo and RvP to play with an injection. They could capitalize on Puyol & Pique’s absence as opposed to NB52.
behind the 8 ball but not nasri @ 280…yes i guess these injuries to our key players have the worst timing(that’s if there is better timing)…but have this small feeling RVP & Fab will make the trip to Russia…Walcott fingers crossed being the surprise addition to that squad
Thanks Holic, Reading the drinks cheered me up.
RVP,
Yes my tab is definitely open 🙂 I will have whatever your drinking, my friend.
heh@ Snir’s pravda.com question…
Snir, pull up a chair..
OH Brother!!!!!!!!!
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/van-persie-out-for-a-minimum-of-three-weeks
atleast Fabregas is a possibility for Barca….Holic hit me with your strongest liquor behind that bar….
There goes our season.
Afternoon ‘All
How’s the mood today? Anyone feeling a tad better? Must say, I’m now looking forward to the next game.
Had to turn down a couple of tickets for The Sunderland game this morning as I have to travel this weekend…. gutted about that esp. as I know quite of few ‘Holics and several of my mates are also going. The Boys will really need lifting tomorrow and Saturday so a request from me to whoever’s going to cheer extra long and hard until we’re back to our best.
Drinks and or prescriptions all round depending on your state of mind.
Looking forward to a strong reaction at the expense of The Os, Sunderland and then Farca.
Fingers crossed for speedy recoveries from Theo (+2 weeks) and RVP (+ 3 weeks min). This must be a chance for Chamakh to regain his mojo and for bendy to show us why is the world’s #3 striker 😉
COYRRRs!
PS for Snir: Enjoy Saturday and hopefully there’ll be another chance soon to share a real pint in The Tolli.
PPS: Full Pravda injuries lowdown at http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/van-persie-out-for-a-minimum-of-three-weeks#ooid=w4N3RhMjqmz4S-90qsdNUgjeEDDUnQWf
Sajit, my friend. I’m hoping that our players do not share your sunny disposition. Pull up a chair and have a drink of any description. Cheers!
So RVP misses Orient, Sunderland, Barca, Manue and WBA. Well, he bloody well better make sure he also misses Hollands two ganes against Hungary which are, ominously, in three weeks time.
Sajit
Come on it’s certainly not looking that bad and if Chamak can regain his scoring spree the I don’t think we will have any problems.
I’m glad for an international break at the end of the month now, means no games for him to miss then and with any luck we can have him back by the start of April (hopeless optimism I know). Of course even if he is back then it’s moot unless we win the two league games (and/or both FA Cup games and/or the Barcelona tie) this month. The work for March begins tomorrow!
Been away doing other things. So, thanks to all those who wished me well (still waiting BTW!).
Just to be clear – She WILL be a Gooner. The 3 year old and one year old already are.
I will allow her to humour her Grandfather when Barca play, but not when they play against us! Rules are rules…
Now I’m looking forward to hearing about Snir’s latest adventure – hopefully not another overnight Heathrow stay!
A drink to all those to whom I owe, and to future Gooners everywhere.
Dr C. Best wishes for the impending arrival. Hope it all goes well. I can hear the silky voice of the great Ritchie Benaud in my ears right now. “What a fine delivery. Just a bit short of a length.”
Best wishes.
RVP out for 3 weeks. Not such good news.
All I want for Christmas is a Torres hat trick shoved down that red nosed idiots throat. That would ease my pain that even alcohol doesn’t reach.
With the just breaking news of RVP out for “at least” 3 weeks… and Theo also set to miss Barca, I’ve gotta say I’m getting a bit fed up with the bull that comes out of Arsenal FC.
At the end of last season AW said “Leave it to me”.
Well, ok, there’s still a bit of the season to go, so time’s not up yet… but honestly! 🙁 We was told after last season that a new way of thinking was going to be adopted, and that was to treat the injury situation as “on going” meaning that the back up players would be perfectly capable of filling in when required.
Clearly that is not the case.
I’d have rather stayed at Highbury if we wasn’t going to be able to buy top quality players to inject a bit of fire into the squad.
We are just coming up to the most critical part of the season, and to be fair, with all available, we look really good to be able to collect some pots this year… but then the usual suspects fall to the regular complaints.
It’s simply not good enough anymore.
Further news is that Almunia is going to start against Orient. What on earth does Shezney need a rest for? Apart from goalies not being physically stretched in the same way as outfield players, he only started being picked to start about 8 matches ago?
I’ve certainly got the hump Grrr 🙁
Good luck CG.
You know like when kids are born at exactly midnight on New Years Eve they get their picture in the paper, well maybe CG’s daughter will be born at exactly the same moment Chelsea’s fourth goal goes in. Definitely make the front page of my paper.
Okay will revert to the drinks in a moment.
RVP, Cesc (possibly) and Theo out for Barca!
Now ‘risking’ Cesc on Sunday may have produced a more positive result on Sunday Inc: injuries, as Cesc’s movement and vision could have helped.
…aaargh! We are going to need some serious endurance to keep the triple going! 😉
PS: I won’t entertain any talk about shipping out Kos or Wos. They are quality! (See:v Barca)
RVP news is very bad for the coming weeks indeed…BIG BLOW
but, keep the faith holics
We need to hope cashley is playing tonight. He is the only one at the chavs that appears to be able to shoot straight.
Catalan – congratulations (for when the waiting is over….)
That statement could be what we all need to hear at this moment.
My only consolation on Sunday was that I was out of the country so avoided the media deluge.
A drink for Catalan (and a virtual cigar for the big moment).
Meh… Like under a cloud is shitty.
Anyone join me for a Guinness?
Me, pik.
It has to end in March..every darned year. :-/
Jeez Sajit, as someone said I hope the players don’t adopt that attitude, I don’t think we’d be very happy if they went out tomorrow or Saturday with a ‘it’s over now’ mentality.
Not many blogs outside Holic and Le Grove impress me, but this is really really good. Mr Holic, apologies for advertising a competitor!
http://desigunner.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/why-arsenal-cant-defend-like-united-or-chelsea/
Yeah I know what you mean Steve T cashley appears to be on target these days 😉
Congrats to CG by the way
dj3MEK Stupid article..!!