You will recognise the style. I don’t need to tell you, do I, that Bergkamp the Man is in town? Read on…
One hour before noon. The tumultuous torrent that is last night’s Guinness fights for supremacy over the Sturgeon Fish Bar’s haddock supper. The latter has locked my tongue to my tonsil in a thick coat of Turkish salt that is not a Delight. My eyelids are open apparently. Maybe they have been all night, just with the pupils pointing inwards? Another Streatham Hill, (“er what day of the week is it? Oh yes”) Thursday morning.
Goonerholic’s posted. He’s given the lads a lashing and been lashed back for not being enough of a lasher and therefore clueless. But wait – much more importantly, BathGooner tells us he’s going on the celebrity tour of the stadium today with Lee Dixon. I’m up for that! What else is a holic to do after a great night out at The Emirates other than go back there again the very next morning? A quick drop in the drinks then there’s 60 minutes till tour time. No time for a shower, so off we go with last night’s hair looking like it’s been slept in – which it has.
Streatham Hill to Brixton Station. A Starbuck’s coffee and a banana – the Kingdom’s antidote to a haddock and Guinness gut gurgler. Off the train at Kings Cross, then over to the Northern Line. Wait a minute, Holloway Road Station is on the Piccadilly Line! A quick fast reverse, then off at Holloway Road and I’m at the Media Centre with 25 minutes to spare before Lee speeds off up the left touchline. “Sorry sir, the Celebrity Tour was brought forward to noon today. You’ve missed it”
Unless felled by hard liquor or a beautiful woman, men from The Kingdom don’t lie down easily. I made my way to the directors’ entrance wherein stood the excellent Jerry. “You’ve flown all the way specially from the USA, sir? I think we can help you. Iceland’s Supporters Club have a special at 3 pm. If they’ll have you, you’re in!”
And then the day got interesting. There was a group hanging out at the next entrance. There was a sign there saying “AGM Here Today”. And there were people pouring out of the door. I presumed that they must be the special people we reverently refer to as the shareholders. I will reserve my thoughts on the extent to which they looked “special”.
A young man came out and I overheard that he is Dave and has been present as a representative of “us fans” as he prepared to speak into a microphone with a camera set to roll. “A bit rough in there today” commented the interviewer during set-up. “Not as bad as I thought it would be quite honestly” responded Dave. I left them to it and engaged two departing attendees.
“How was it, gentlemen?”.
“Same old rubbish we get every year. Nothing new. Ivan Gazidis is a very clever speaker but he gives you a lecture, he doesn’t speak to you”.
“And Arsene Wenger?“
“Same old flannel from him, nothing new really”.
“Very insightful”, I thought as I pondered on whether the same might include:
- Pride in our new stadium that enables an extra 20k people to watch Arsenal play live twice a week improving the coffers at the same time.
- Delight at being the only club in England to have qualified for the final stages of the Champions League for the last 15 seasons.
- Enthusiasm around Arsenal’s perfect positioning to capitalise on FFP and the levelling of the playing field that it is intended to render.
- Three great new signings including Magic Man Cazorla and some of the best emerging talents in Europe.
A dynamic media duo, cameraman and pundit “We’re from the Premier League” were interviewing anyone who could stand and speak. This included some of the twenty or so fans who had been standing outside the AGM when I arrived, and who, had patently not been AGM attendees.
“I’ll give it a go.” I thought. Now which theme should I start with?
“Had the AGM come on any one of the days after Arsenal humbled Liverpool at Anfield, outplayed the current Champions in Manchester, or blasted the Greek Champion,s the mood in the room would have been better. We Arsenal fans are a fickle bunch, swayed by results and the weather”
Or maybe:
“Yes, there was discontent today. I think there’s a chance that might have been softened had our first choice goalkeeper, right back, left back, two box to box midfielders and right winger been available for selection against a team who humbled Borrusia Dortmund at the weekend”
Or perhaps even:
“Last night’s result influenced the mood but, for context, has to be compared with Manchester City’s thrashing. Many are baying for “spend, spend, spend” but City have paid us 72 million for five players, lost 400 million to buy the league and they still couldn’t beat little Ajax from Holland”.
I was too honest up front. “I’ve travelled all the way from the USA, I have a point of view. I wasn’t in the AGM but I’d like to give you my perspective for balance”. I don’t think they liked the word balance. They were looking for a viewpoint of a particular perspective. A perspective with the odour of “Same old rubbish. Don’t know what they’re doing. We need to spend more money. We won’t even be in the top four.” kind of a comment. A spread the shit on the Arsenal kind of a comment.
“No. Sorry, sir. We don’t want you. Now lads. Who’s next? Who else wants to speak to us?”
It’ll be funny to watch their stuff. I anticipate that, like today in London N5, Goonerholic’s Roving Reporter at today’s AGM will find it to be pretty gloomy. But when did good news and a positive outlook ever sell newspapers or their digital equivalent? When was balance ever a feature of a digital media soundbite?
But then, on a happier note – back to these fine fans of ours from Iceland.
“YES! Most certainly you can join our tour and you’re very welcome Mr Scotsman”.
So off we went to be trilled and thrilled by Peter Clydebank. “With a name like that, it’s in my blood, laddie. I’ve a Scottish faither, a Welsh mother and I was born in Islington on St. Patrick’s Day. I’m Team GB all rolled into one. You are indeed, Peter. To you, Jerry and Reykjavik’s finest I say a very big THANK YOU for a superb afternoon. To the Thai Lady at The Tolly, your green curry is one of the very best. To everyone else, see you under a brolly on Saturday.
210 Responses to “Guest Post – Iceland Gooners’ Hospitality Thaws Media Guisers’ Freeze Out”
Lars 235 ‘yesterday’, yes that’s what I was thinking too 😉
Second?
top 4? it’s a trophy!
Imitable BtM at his finest…..a tonic from the shadow of gloom. A drink of your choice awaits at the bar (on Lars tab of course.)
Excellent post BtM. Sorry to have missed you at the tour. An interesting experience all right, made more interesting by the honest and amiable Lee Dixon – always a good ‘un.
I look forward to finally meeting you under the brolly at the Tollie on Saturday.
It’s going to rain Caledonian on Saturday 😉
You down, bonnie lad?
Good stuff, BtM!
zico, so you are saying that on Saturday, the Tollie isn’t going to get off scot-free?
Heh @ Lars.
I understand it’s on your tab?
I used to drink that, zico, but I hope it doesn’t fall from over our heads
http://www.whatalesyou.co.uk/ugc/brewery/Caledonian/caledonian-brewery.gif
Hey bath, sounds like you enjoyed the tour. We are going to do it in a few weeks. The legend tour sounds the way to go then?
Also I was going to let this rot at the end of the last drinks but it took way to long to type on my phone only to be snubbed by a new blog so here it is:
Cheers all. A very painful last 24 hours. Just finished back drinking. Agree with most. I predicted the starting line up pre match with 100% accuracy. That just shows what little options we have at the moment. If I can pick each man, then it is sad. The bench was telling as well. It was full of players that were there just to warm the seat.
I don’t know why we are trying to ease Giroud into the roll. He is our only center forward. Play him. He has done nothing to merit the shuffling in and out of the lineup. Teammates will not learn how to play to his strengths if he is on the bench.
If poldi is hurt then why is he playing. He has offered little coverage the last few weeks. Put in someone that will. I also think he misses what Gibbs provided. He and Gibbs were working well with each other. Gibbs gave him width so that he could cut inside. Just like theo playing best with Sagna, I think it is true with poldi and Gibbs.
The midfield is not balanced without one more creative option. Teams will now sit on Santi and push him backwards. With no other option it is easy to do. If we don’t have diary, wilshire or rosicky then I would ask Arteta to move forward more. He actually has a decent shot from outside the box and would at least give us more forward creativity. Maybe try vermaelen as a DM. Or keep the Coq. But it needs some change.
We are once again playing with a depleted squad that can’t cope with the inevitable injuries.
‘ keeper- third choice
Fullbacks – at least one is second choice if not both
Center backs- still first choice but I would argue the capitain hinders selection there too.
Midfield- Arteta and Cazorla first choice but the last spot is not in my top 3. ( Wilshire, Diaby, rosicky,AOC).
Forwards- poldi ( is he playing injured?)
Giroud ( why is he not starting) Ramsey ( really, he’s a forward?)
Gerv ( not a finisher and teams know it. )
Theo would be my choice on the right.
Or if we have the walking wounded back then move Santi out right with a rosicky wilshire Arteta midfield.
Change is needed but once again those changes can only happen when we get people out of the hospital beds. It bogles my little mind.
It very much is, Bath!
Good stuff BtM. Great to see you under the brollie last night (eventually!) whilst we enjoyed (some) lashings of beer, all round. Enjoy Saturday. Hope the boys in the famous red and white actually turn-up for that one. Maybe even score a goal or three???
@Norcal
Have to agree…play Giroud every week (within reason), if he bags 6 goals in the next 8 games if was a worthy experiment. He might only get 2, but I’d gamble on it being the former.
Besides everything else – the other ten on the pitch can shape an attack around the same style/striker week after week – surely that would help with consistency and goals for – which suddenly might be out gravest need.
— Enjoyed the post BtM – a perfect summation of the instant need for HEADLINE CRISIS talk at the drop of a hat, the quest for most cynical views toward Arsenal is quite hot this week with The Guardian and Telegraph arm-wrestling for it. I think we’ll be fine although this season might be the one that hurts most.
Really disappointed to miss you on the tour, Bath. Sounds like Lee Dixon was great value. I enjoyed it nevertheless. All the folks from Iceland were friendly and I’m hoping a few will drop in here. I had a solitary pint in the Tollie in your absence. It’s quite a different pub with only three people in there. Looking forward to Saturday. See you then.
It is indeed Norcal. Did THOF with KS3 who was very free with the goos, indiscretions and humour. LD2 was bright and very open though slightly more discreet. Strongly recommend the extra cost.
Agree with your every word, mate.
I don’t think it would be possible to be in better Caledonian company than BtM, Bath, and Dr Z.
…unless Lorraine Kelly turned up, obviously 😉
TS is still alive!
After that Santos performance, I was wondering if he’d gone in hiding 😉
I did the tour a few years ago with Charlie George. Top geezer.
I met CG in the museum many years ago when he used to do ‘museum duty’ – I hadn’t seen him in years and I thought it was Michael Cain initially. A diamond geezer.
Definitely missing Carrasso, but still 1-1 with 5 minutes to go.
Yes @ 7, Heh @ 10.
This referee is rather shit.
Looks like Barton&his mates are losing 2-0 🙂
23 Ollie….that covers 95% of English referees then.
He’s not English, this one, I believe, Ups.
1-1 final score.
No last minute fuck-up at last. Not toooo bad.
Great post,BTM,always feels good to read anything from you,this one is right up there with your best. It’s genuinly sad to see the press enjoy our misery,i wonder if they do the same for other top clubs.
Norcal,i’m with you on Giroud,we need to get him on the pitch as much times as possible but then i understand the manager may want to take the attention away from him before thrusting him into the thick of things.
Doesn’t make Uplympian’s statement factually incorrect, all the same Ollie 😉
heh, very true, Dr Z.
Rumours of my demise are indeed exaggerated Mon. O. Got tired of hiding under my rock today.
I hate it that Santos is the new boo boy along with Gervinho and Ramsey.
Yes he had a poor game but he got bugger all protection or support from his team-mates.
Even Cesc used to take 3 or 4 games to find his form when returning into the first team. I still love Santos, there are great performances in him in matches to come, I’m sure.
The worst thing about last night? Witnessing an Emirates fire-drill after their second goal that made me think that I’d been transported into the wrong end of The Seven Sisters Road.
The best thing? Our BFG genuinely reminded me of Adams at times last night. He was and needed to be heroic.
I loved the BFG’s work, in the first half certainly, TS.
Tim @ 14
Your concluding sentence I find quite intriguing – care to elaborate?
Do you for example, believe in the FFP fairy? *
*Not Wolfgang Smallballs, even I don’t believe in him
2 good points there TS.
I was genuinely shocked at the mass exit on the second goal. Spineless really.
BFG was colossal esp in the first half. Wonderful Keown-esque shot blocks.
TS, he was blowing out his arse after 10 minutes.
Nothing to do with “finding form” – his fitness is both an indictment of him and the management team, in my opinion and Arsenal fans deserve more.
If he was fit, he may have a role to play further forward but a left back i.e. defender he will never be, I’m afraid.
I’m with Dr Z on that point, TS.
Cheers bath, where were you last night, BTW?
It always makes me chuckle how people complain about how expensive it is to watch the Arse at The Ems (and they’re right, of course) and then come late and leave early.
Apart from the rudeness of it all, I wonder if in their spare time they have a basket of tenners that they toss on the fire just for laughs?
Mmmm….. that’s h-Arsh zico.
BTM, You’ve managed to coax a very broad, silly smile from me, pure delight! 🙂 I hearby endorse this post 100% goonerlishious!
Ollie at last 86: thanks for the response, much appreciated. Having looked back. I see only Norcal63 as ref. to Diaby. O.K., so maybe I don’t back-drink as well as I should, but I know your drinks tell it as it is.
My drink had ref. to a much earlier drink of mine (can’t find exactly where it is now,much earlier) which said we would miss Diaby, and was generally ignored except for one drink which put ” round miss. So I felt a wee pissed (or a piss weed) and commented accordingly.
As an old man and a very-long time fan (through thin and thin), I felt entitled. Ta.
Heh.
Drove up from Bath at 4.30 with the aim of a bite and a small refreshment pre-match (been a few years since I tried for a midweek game and that used to be OK for time) and got snarled up on M4 then north circular where I lost 1 hour.
Had to jump out of the car on the Tollington Road where the bathlets were waiting at 7.50 and let WoB drive on to Miss B’s flat. I did say to bathlet no1 that I fancied a pint (heh) in the Tollie but he observed that we had to get back to the Grove for 8.45 for the tour that they were giving me for my birthday and insisted on us going straight home.
It’s terrible when your kids start keeping you on the straight and narrow! 🙂
I’m confused. A Scotsman flying to England from the USA? Is Eisfeld from Iceland then?
Well for once, I don’t think I’m in the minority Professor.
I think you may have been seduced by a fucking cheeky smile and a joker’s personality 😉
….and a typo?
Oh, that’s Wolfie! 🙂
He had me at ‘hola’ zico 😛
Good points Dr Z & bath…..our “professionals” are payed money most of us dream of and in general adored by our supporters (until they fuck off elsewhere). In return we ask is for them to put in 100% effort. To do this they need to get themselves fit – not too difficult in their pampered world one would think. It is therefore abhorrent when players are patently unfit for purpose….yes you Santos and Arshavin! What is just as incredible is that the management seem to find this acceptable.
Can the players be docked money if they deliberately do not attain the requisite level. In contrast is Corp Jenkinson (should be a least a Sargeant on current performance) who is living the dream and putting in 100% effort every game.
Happy Bathday!
@ 45
Strumpet! 😛
Oh bathgooner, Please forgive your comrades, I will cover for them 🙁 HAPPY BIRTHDAY! 🙂
TS, You’ve restored my faith, a bit 🙂
Thanks TS – it was in June. The Bathlets wanted to get the tour with Lee Dixon because I had expressed that preference a couple of years ago. This was the only date he was doing since they started looking in May. ITV are clearly occupying his time.
Interesting observations on the difference between GG and AW: George would have fined him or Nutty if they had kept a forward onside in the manner Santos did last night and against Norwich.
A great story was when he subbed Michael Thomas in the first half because he refused to tuck his shirt into his shorts.
Things have definitely changed.
and thanks aab.
It was a very big round number.
@Zico
To a certain extent yes I do, if (of course) it is actually enforceable However there is more to it than that, so here comes the really optimistic part of it.
I think we have a really good structure that should well see us having the core of an excellent team in about 24 months, of course we’ve heard that before and injuries/loss of form and transfers could kill my hopes, but I give you the following 10 players that I think could be our starting 11 in two years time and their ages at that time.
GK – Szczesny (24)
LB – Gibbs (25)
CD – Miquel (22)
CD – Vermaelen (28)
RB – Jenkinson (23)
MF – Coquelin (23)
MF – Wilshere (22)
MF – Oxlade-Chamberlain (21)
LW – Cazorla (29)
CF – ?
RW – Walcott (25) (striker??)
Now I realise that is much of what we already have, but I see that squad at those ages being able to offer far more than they can now. At present I still hope that Ramsey might be part of that potential 11, although I don’t know where he fits.
I don’t know if Eisfeld, Yennaris, Gnabry, Wellington or Joel Campbell will make it through – but if one of the final two does that might be another forward slot filled. My point being is that there aren’t many gaps there and I think that is a better team than we have now with development, experience adding to the quality of those 9 names. I know it is a squad game but if 7 of those are our first eleven in 2014/15 it is still a young team with a ceiling to aiming toward.
Naturally much depends on whether FFP makes a difference and whether Chelsea/City ownerships is prepared to keep spending forever.
Feel free to tell me I’m dreaming, but I think that’s still a great core to be excited about. First one to say Wilshere will have been sold by then wins a grin.
Hey,Abb. *waves*
Oh bath, I feel as much out of step as poor Santos right now! But I believe Zico might be onto something about him @ 35 (playing farther forward). There’s talent there, just waiting to explode!
Hey Cent 🙂 Waves to all a very gooner night 🙂
Hah! Fines for not tucking your shirt into your shorts? Now we’re talking. Sensible policies for a happier club. Love it!
I’d like to see fines instated for wearing oversize earphones on the team bus. Shockingly bad for morale and the art of fine conversation….. innit?
Belated happy bathday.
@50 – Like your fizzy drinks mixer, I’m at your service.
my long and boring point being, we may be in about the same place where we were in 1986/7 at the moment – and we had as many raw youngsters at the same point in time.
Tim @ 53
I hope your optimism is correct.
There are 2 problems with your list though:
Walcott will leave this season. No contract signed at this point makes that inevitable.
Both Kos and Per are better long term bets than TV5.
That doesn’t hole your thesis below the waterline though.
Lopez or OG for the question mark.
Dr Z,
And the there’s Benik Afobe at centre forward, ably supported by Chuks Aneke and Japan’s one and only, premier league and Erodivisie proven Ryo Miyaichi. Jebb and Toral are said to have a fine pedigree too chum.
Tim
Wilshire, Walcott, Coq, Miquel and Gibbs would have been sold by then.
Five grins?
I put down TV simply because he’s younger, although as of today I think Per is the best we have in that position but will be 30 that season.
Biggest ‘maybes’ are probably Jenkinson and Coquelin…but I’m optimistic.
Walcott…I’m still not sure….stranger things have happened. If Giroud doesn’t get 6 straight starts as striker we might as well try Theo.
@True Storey
Don’t say that….feck
Tim,i’m not sure about Wellington but Joel Campbell has got bags of talent,he plays a bit like a left footed Henry*,he just needs to find consistency in his performances. Eisfield and Yennaris don’t look like they will be ready in two years time but i think atleast 1 of the 2 of them will make it. If Gnabry keeps progressing at his current pace he would be ready by next year. You didn’t mention Afobe but i think he too has a big chance of making it.
Good points, BtM. I had overlooked those fellas.
Thanks for responding Tim.
Nice idea in theory, but for the reason I gave before, I have no faith in FFP amounting to anything other than a feverish idealist’s dream. I have even less faith in Uefa applying it to any of the “big” teams.
Since the fence-painter on behalf of the Board continues to recite this FFP mantra, then something is going to give.
And if FFP does not work, then money will continue to talk and therefore we will be back to how many of the side you mention above will we be able to retain.
With Kroenke refusing to rule out paying a dividend, never mind putting his hand into his pocket, then we are kinda stuck it seems to me.
Still, there will always be Guinness.
And rum. 8)
@BTM — agree with some of those names too, but 2 years might be too soon….but sure..add them to the 9 or 10 and we have the core of something really good.
More good points TS@62 and Dr Z@67.
FFP is a mirage. Shitteh and Chavski are already working their way around it.
Players will always move for more money. L Dixon, Personal Communication today.
Ah…. Guinness and rum. Definite sensible policies for a more satisfied supporter.
Tim – My only point, if half of those players are with us in 2 years time then we will have gone some way to stemming the one way flow of talent that our club generates, purchases like Santi aside. For the record I’m convinced Theo will be gone at Xmas. As always, delighted to be proved wrong on these points.
FFP is a lifeboat we’ve been swimming toward for years and just when we get to it, it will turn out to be brim full of water and about to sink. It was funny (and more than a bit sad) when Gazidis said we’re not relying on FFP to make us competetive at the AGM. If he told me my own name I’d have to look at the label in my underpants to be sure he was telling me the truth, and even then I’d have to be sure it hadn’t been written in his handwriting.
So full of shit that bloke.
Nonny @ 71
Good instincts there. I bet he could talk the hind legs off a donkey. But could he make a full back hold the back line?
fair point TS….I suppose I could have written an identical version of the same thing 3 years ago with a different cast eh?
But…somehow…I think we might have learned who to keep….I don’t think Nasri, Adebayor, Song or Clichy are (by 2014/15) better than the names I’m optimistic about. That Spanish chap at Barca would still be the biggest regret.
Bath/Dicko knows at #69.
How long before LJW is offered £250K/week or higher by one of the oil clubs or even Manure?
“With Kroenke refusing to rule out paying a dividend, never mind putting his hand into his pocket, then we are kinda stuck it seems to me”
A not entirely unreasonable assumption…
7 of the 10 outfield players last night were not on Arsenal’s books prior to the start of last season 2011/2012. Of the other 3, Le Coq was still a reserve, Ramsey recovering from being Shawcrossed, thereby leaving Vermaelen as the only senior pro from 15 months ago. Don Vito was 3rd choice then and now. Some change around!!
Tim – I love the optimisim. Unfortunately, the only learning required at the moment is how to fund a payroll for your top players that matches what anyone else is willing to pay them. We simply cannot, nor do I think we should, compete with that madness.
@TS – Agreed…perhaps the financial madness/greed will all end in tears for so many clubs, I don’t want us to be one of those.
La Liga for a start is close to meltdown on unpaid debts. Power shift to Germany I’m guessing.
Tim/TS/BtM. Chuba Akpom @ 16 yrs is knocking goals in for the reserves….another great hope for the future to add to your list. In reality many good prospects in the yoofs regretfully do not make the leap into first team regular, but there s hope eternal. Failing that there is Guinness and Somerset gold to finish off the day.;-)
Bundesliga seems to be where it’s at right now. Great teams, finances under control (compared to The Prem, La Liga, Serie A, etc.) and FANTASTIC support.
The Schalke away fans were every bit as good as BVB’s from last season. Invasion doesn’t even begin to describe it (with apologies).
Uply, I’m going with options G & Sg 😉
Good decision TS, they will never under perform. 😉
The Schalke fans were amazing. I remember another such evening with German visitors to THOF a number of years ago, not Bayern. It might have been Schalke as well. Truly impressive. Much like a Nuremberg rally IMHO. 🙂
The Blue Boys from Zagreb (?) were a bit special in that qualifier.
We are put to shame at home by too many travelling fans in the noise generated. But those fans last night were in a different league.
TBF the travelling Gooners do a damn good job and are regularly audible throughout televised games.
However the Grove is generally an embarrassment.
excellant report..cheered me up.
One thing that alwys makes me think …is why are away supporters in the prime area for showing on TV.
Newcastle,Man utd etc stick them miles away.
Whats the team for saturday going to look like?
Also what about the match v reading…..1st string?
Mannone
Jenks – BFG – Kos -TV
Arteta – LJW
Ox – Cazorla – Gerv
OG
BTM@61. All names that if they live up to their potential could win a lot.
😉
Nice to see that even on your day off you are drinking in the Tollie on your own.
😉
Bath,
It would be a Perry Groves day for our tour.
I like you lineup above much better than trying the same thing for third consecutive game. Man up lads. Show some pride.
If he keeps Gervinho in the side for Saturday, assuming others are fit enough to start, he’s lost the plot. Again. But he’s lost it so many times I half expect to wake up and find Patrick Duffy in my shower…
From today’s AGM……..
….Wenger said: “For me, there are five trophies – the first is to win the Premier League, the second is to win the Champions League, the third is to qualify for the Champions League, the fourth is to win the FA Cup and the fifth is to win the League Cup.
“I say that because if you want to attract the best players, they do not ask ‘Did you win the League Cup?’, they ask you ‘Do you play in the Champions League?’”
Now that would sound so much more believable if we then did not go on to sell them all????? I wonder if the vast financial rewards offered from the Champions League go some way to such a corperate stance???
Just saying like.
NorCal – Agree with every word and said as much as in the last drinks, and what Tim said about Giroud @14.
Dr Z @35 and @43 Bang on re Santos. Anyone would think that you had used my words. Oh 😉
In all seriousness if Santos cannot be held up for the utter disgrace that is his fitness (rather than his form), and Gervinho singled out for a second woeful performance in 4 days, without being described as “boo boys” then we might as well just all give up, read the official programme, swallow it hook line and sinker, and be done with it.
BtM, thanks for the post. I appreciated the tale of your travels and as always the fine writing. I cannot however agree with much of the sentiment that lies behind either your 4 bullet points halfway down the post, or your proposed statements to the media which you italicise in red.
Yes the media are ferociously anti-Arsenal and will always pick out idiot and tedious supporters like Payton, and dipstick ex-players like Robson for their soundbites. That will not change sadly. The answer to such nonsense however is not to meet their agenda with responses which do not even acknowledge that there might be underlying problems. As Holic himself so wisely said in the last set of drinks,
“a little understanding of the frustrations that are delivering conflicts of opinion might help to improve the atmosphere that develops when things go temporarily pear-shaped.”
– Yes the Stadium is a fantastic achievement when it is measured against the failures or other Clubs when they have embarked on something similar, but (A) it was largely the achievement of Danny Fitzman and the previous Board (B) Repayments are now under control and have been for 2 years and (C) the increased coffers that you talk about only make a difference if they are spent improving the side rather than sitting in a never used “rainy day” account.
– Yes I agree that Arsene’s genius has kept us in the Champions League and that that, given his miniscule budget, is a fantastic and much underestimated achievement, but it is not too fanciful to suggest that with a less stringent attitude to the purse-strings, affordable players might have been found that would have pushed us over the line. Look at the difference Arteta has made. We have been very close, I would argue that we still are, but the deficiencies since 08 have been fairly obvious and many have gone unaddressed. Look at our goalkeeper.
– Yes FFP is around the corner, and whilst it might not be the panacea for all the ills in the game, I, unlike others, remain convinced that it will make some difference. That said, it is becoming increasingly clear that there is no Plan B at the club if it is as toothless as many suggest .
– Yes Cazorla is a wonderful player, but we are short of two more, bearing in mind that we lost, whatever we might think of him now, an equally wonderful player to a direct rival. I was dismissive of the hysteria that greeted our lack of action on TDD. I stand by that, but that is different from being concerned at the wider point that we had once again turned a profit in the transfer market at a time when most still saw glaring deficiencies within the squad.
– Yes the atmosphere at the AGM would have been better had we humbled Norwich and then beaten or at least matched Schalke, but that would not have meant that there weren’t underlying concerns as to how the Board goes about its business, or that some of those concerns weren’t legitimate.
– Yes, we have an horrendous injury list, but when has that not been the case? Diaby, Gibbs, Rosicky all have previous. The extent of Wilshere’s injury was well known in the summer. Indeed, if anything, we are told he is ahead of schedule. As for the goalkeeping don’t even get me started. Fabianski was injured before the close of the window. That we are having to rely on Mannone could and should have been foreseen.
For all that I remain in thrall to Arsene Wenger. He is a great man, and I would want him to lead the Club for as long as he felt able. Where we depart, however, is that I am not so enamoured of the Board. As I mentioned in the last drinks I don’t think it is a tenable position to remain uncritical of BOTH Arsene AND the Board. Both brief the Press. Either Arsene has far less money than the Board maintains, or the position is as the Board states and he is not spending what he has. We will all have a view, but it is either one or the other.
I apologise for what might be perceived as a negative piece. Long time readers of this Blog will know that that is not my way nor that I find criticising Arsenal easy in any way. It is just that I find myself increasingly incredulous at some of the defences being offered by the “everything is rosy” camp. Most importantly I think they are counter productive. The atmosphere in the fanbase has been febrile and unpredictable since the Birmingham League Cup Final. That discontent found expression at the home games vs Villa at the back end of the 10-11 season and vs Man Utd last January. Neither were pleasant experiences. In such an atmosphere, it would not take much of a shift within the fanbase for things to turn really nasty and to make Arsene consider whether he needs the hassle. By dismissing legitimate concern with platitudes of past achievement, it is my view that that will only see more people scurrying off to Le Grove corner. If too many make that choice, the above scenario becomes a real possibility. Given the Board’s policy, an Arsenal without Arsene scares me shitless. I genuinely do not believe that anybody else can achieve what he does on the limited resources he has available.
Oh dear, another post that is far too long. I got carried away. Anyway Sir, all being well, I should be around to buy you a beer and that much awaited haddock on Saturday! 😉
Dr Z @33,
I believe in me! 😉
Nonny @71,
While you’re checking your pants, tuck your shirt in them or it’s a fine for you ! 😉
Nice post BtM. The day you can’t find a positive outlook wevare truly in trouble.
Look forward to a slightly longer meeting on Saturday pre QPRhahaha.
TS. Thanks for the nice words in the last drinks. 🙂
Re: Bath @41. It’s Miss B and bathlets now? Your virtual persona keeps growing. 🙂
Blimey Tabs, I was about to go to bed.
See, I get all seduced by the positivity of BtM amidst the gathering gloom, and then you turn up with that little lot and I can’t disagree with a word of it.
I must be too tired to think for myself so I will indeed retire.
See you Saturday. Can you get Google translate on your phone ?
Looking like we might need it amongst the Caledonian hordes. Guess we’ll be buying our own … 😉
Having finally had some time to back drink :
Have to agree with Zico when it comes to FFP. If money didn’t matter so much, the FA wouldn’t have sold their bloody rights (and soul) to Sky in the first place – so what can we honestly expect from UEFA and Platini..? Look at the standard of refereeing, the refusal of to use goal-line technology, the allocation of World cup venues to those who bribe the most…….the entire administration is a fucking shambles. Pinning your hopes to FFP is wishful thinking.
Tabs: I was hoping someone would bring up the whole fitness issue about Santos, (and of course trust you to mention it) which if I may reiterate – is a thundering disgrace on the player, the club and the manager / coach who deems it someway acceptable. Santos should be NOWHERE near the reserves, let alone the first team until he is, at the very least – “fit for purpose”. Anyway, I’ve said it from day one – I never rated the lad as a defender and I stand by that. If I’m honest, I think he’s been a very poor signing.
I disagree with you slightly on Gervinho. I will borrow Stillmans description on Arseblog in saying that Gervinho is a type of “polly filla” for the moment, but the reality is – he has scored the most, he is capable of passing players with the ball at his feet (when he doesn’t manage to tie himself up in knots, or think about the situation), he provides some element of pace and he generally runs all day long. Now he most certainly is NOT the solution to the centre forward position for the long term – but I would argue that he is the only one remotely stepping up to the mark at the moment, when others are not. I also think Giroud is too big, too cumbersome and too bloody awkward when we face teams who put 11 players behind the ball. His only threat is aerial – and when was the last time wenger-ball generally posed any sort of threat from an aerial position (apart from scoring own goals!). For me signing Giroud was most perplexing, especially if Wenger thought that he was going to, in some way, replace RVP – who is an entirely different player. Y’know Tabs, I would actually have Bendtner up front before Giroud!
Trev – couldn’t agree with you more in relation to Ramsey. Out of position, lack of pace and I would add another thing I notice in his game which is a propensity to give away possession. I still think he’s a valuable squad member – just not out on the wing.
Finally Bath – I too was most conceded by Bouldy’s aftermatch press conference. Saying things like “Almost got away with it” and “settled for a draw” – betrayed his nervousness and inexperience. His contention that the substitutions were agreed in advance were even more unsettling. Is Wenger that controlling? Am I the only one who thinks that pre-planning substitutions is a futile exercise as nobody can predict the future, let alone what it says about he confidence Wenger has in his No2….???
As for the AGM – unsurprising as usual……..
“Is Wenger that controlling?” – Yup.
Interesting that Stewart Robson has “heard” that Wenger and Bould don’t get on.
By interesting I mean yawn.
Might as well stick the hundred in while I am here.
It’s the sixth trophy!
Arsenal £25 million deal with Adidas.
Better but was hoping for more.
Ping?
Oh Nonny you glory hunter!
Well in
If they give us red shirts, white sleeves at home and yellow shirts with blue trim away, with no more sodding redcurrant or plain blue, or white with blue shorts, they could give us 10p a year and it would be enough.
Get the stripes back on the sleeves. Pleased.
Link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9634840/Arsenal-set-to-sign-25-million-shirt-deal-with-Adidas.html
“I don’t think it is a tenable position to remain uncritical of BOTH Arsene AND the Board”
Tabs,
Wenger gets paid somewhere in the region of €9m a year. That’s over £100k per week. More than Ferguson. More than Mancini. More than Capello. He is one of the top 3 highly paid managers in the world (the other two being Mourinho and Ancellotti according to a report released by France Football of late).
He largely has autocratic control of all things in AFC on the football side. He has refused many other jobs to stay here. I don’t think that’s down to money. I think its down to control, vision and influence.
I have no doubt, that there are differences between the board and he. But I think that they largely find a compromise in working together because it’s in both their interest to do so.
There has been unequivocal loyalty from Arsene. And there has been unequivocal support from Kronke and Gazidis.
Are they really all that different?
In relation to the money, I think there’s money there to buy big players. But I don’t think the moneys there to pay players 200k a week and that’s where the problem is, especially when we have mediocre players on the books at the moment.
The “rainy day account” is prudent management. We may not qualify for the CL this year, just as we almost missed out last year. It’s a realistic possibility when you compare the wages we pay by comparison to what other teams now offer. Last year we finished above Chelsea in the league to finish third!
Arteta has made a great difference as you rightly point out, but not every signing has been a success. And more importantly, we have paid mediocre players too much and now we cannot cut them loose. Thus more money is tied up. In another era – I believe Wenger would have conceded to signing Walcott. I think he’s under pressure now to ensure that the fat is trimmed which is why I don’t envisage any new contract for Theo. In relation to TDD, we bought 3 players and I think wenger held off on buying anyone else and wanted to see how the team performs without RVP. I think he’ll spend in January at a time when we have disposable money unlike other teams at that time of year when we might be more value.
As for Mannone – was that situation really all that foreseeable on TDD? Schezny was fit. Fabianski was due back imminently. There were no offers for Mannone (or for the other “dead wood”) and Martinez and O”Shea are showing promise. So was it really all that foreseeable that we would buy another keeper? Is it still? Especially when your quoted 4m for a 36 year old keeper like Swartzer?
When you say that the new stadium was largely the achievement of the Fisman and the previous Board – could I be wrong in saying that the new stadium was Wengers Vision? The allocation of funds (primarily generated by Wenger) and the execution of that vision may well have been down to Fisman et al, but without Wenger, is it fair to say there would be no stadium?
I hope I’m wrong about FFP and that the new commercial deals will make us more competitive. I think Wenger will wait until then to see what transpires because he’s put too much into this club to just walk away.
Its his legacy.
Its everything he’s worked for and he still has to win a European Cup!
And I don’t write in any real sense of disagreement Tabs as I largely feel were on the same page when it comes to Wenger and indeed most other things. If anything, the little distance in our opinions is a gap that “any frog could straddle”.
Well in for the ton Nonny!
NorCal, 25 million per season sounds good.
Let’s hope it’s not 25 million in total…
I’m guessing it’s still being negotiated but let’s hope we get as much as we can from Adidas and get our stripes going in the future.
We may look like the recent Colorado Rapids kit, right?
http://www.footballkitnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Colorado-Rapids-New-Kit-2013-14.jpeg
Cors,
Looks like £25 per year for 4 years. It’s more than twice what we get now from Nike. Same as poo got from warrior. Was interested to read we are third in kit sales behind manure and farca. Maybe we can get a small percent of the sales added on.
Tim, bath et al., all these talks of emerging talents and no mention of Ryo?
He is the genuine deal, you know. Not sure whether sending him away at loan to Wigan where he is not being given that much of chance to play was the best decision. He could play on both wings and a run in league cup and some chances in desperate situations like Wednesday’s while practicing with the first squad may have been more conducive to his growth.
Aneke and Afobe too have lots of potential. Aneke, particularly, has a very unique combination of power, skills and intelligence.
Joe @ 98 — I don’t think your characterization of Giroud as some kind of clumsy version of Chamakh is at all accurate. If I recall correctly only just a few of his goals for Montpellier last year came from headers.
He is a far better player than Bendy. Bendy has some skills on the ball but his off-the-ball movement is pedestrian whereas Giroud’s is intelligent and aware of the team positions.
If you look at either of his goals for Arsenal, each had a good bit of skill and equally importantly for a striker instinct about them.
But more importantly, look at his quite sublime assist to Arshavin in the league cup. Sure it was a lower league opposition but that was a neat bit of skill and vision. Or his simple but effective assists to Theo and Ramsey.
Yes, he is not yet quite up to the speed of PL and after RVP he looks a little on the agricultural side by comparison. But I think there is a player with great potential and hunger, and not to say team ethics, and a sustained run in the side I am sure would see him blossom.
Some of the criticism he receives reminds me of people’s impatience with Koscielny at the beginning.
TaBs @92 and Joe @105 I appreciate your thoughtful ripostes. I think that a hoop thrown over all three captures the essence of the thing nicely.
As I wander deeper into my dotage I’m finding that a positive internal dialogue reflected by an outlook of the same hue does wonders for my disposition. As a bonus, life seems to roll along a little more easily too. That doesn’t mean, of-course, that I’m completely oblivious to the darker side, but the Monty Python in me doesn’t let me walk there (now).
Joe response is almost exactly what I would have written had I tried to come up with yet one more haddock for you TaBS. That isn’t to say I lack any appreciation or touch with your viewpoint.
I do think that boardroom tensions exist as they do in any ambitious enterprise. I think Arsenal is not alone as a football club in that regard. I happen to think that the tensions at Arsenal between financial solidity and acquisition/salary costs is healthy (versus, say those at either of the Manchester clubs).
I also think that Arsene did expect to sign two more players before the window closed. His “Yes, we will bring in two more” comment at the time was far too emphatic to be smoke. I think that Santi, Poldi, Giroud (he’ll be great) are all excellent performance/cost/value buys versus, say 38M for Aguero. Before them Kos, Arteta, BFG, Jenkinson, Gervinho were also.
I think we do need another striker, but would like to see Chamakh and Arshavin be part of the outward package that funds that purchase/salary. I’m not convinced by the goalkeeper or MF (assumes Jack, Diaby, Frimpong fit) need that many are expressing. I’m happy to stick with Arsene’s judgement of the polestars.
I DO think we need to find a way to fund 250k salaries for the really exceptional – which Wilshere is but Walcott will never be.
It is retention (of players like Wilshere) not big new purchases that will fuel future trophy wins. That will need to be achieved through much sharper financial acumen and a re-tapering of the current salary package (already very high) away from the less able/willing/contributing.
So, jet lag fueled burst burst fading, I will off back to bed and dream of the long anticipated, deep fried golden browns purveyed by that fine establishment, The Chip Inn Fish Bar on Holloway Road. Saturday, I am sure, will be fun irrespective of how many we win by 🙂
Very special, you lot are. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. Fantastic and respectful debate.
Thank you.
Tabs @ 92 excellent post. BtM excellent piece as well, thoroughly enjoyed. After reading some polarizing views here and over at Arseblog news on what happened during the AGM, I sit a little over the fence on where we are as a club.
The view that the board and the club haven’t been doing as much as they can to ensure footballing success is a legitimate one, and I won’t go to detail about this. It’s there for everyone to see I think. Our wage bill too is rather concerning, especially when we constantly refuse to pay players top,top wages.
Nevertheless, I also think the Club has done many things right. The stadium, our financial prudence, and most importantly Arsene Wenger. I will support this team no matter what, that’s for sure.
But what I find hard to swallow is how everything went South since the Invincibles swept away everything in sight in the EPL. It was supposed to be the start of a legacy, not the end of it. Back then, we had enormous worldwide support for the Gunners, we had a chance to capitalise on this commercially. But no, here we are 8 years later struggling commercially. And it is definitely not a surprise — constant selling of what consumers perceive as star players, no trophies — the worldwide demand and pull of the Arsenal has surely decreased somewhat in comparison to 8-10 years ago. And that is down as much to our footballing results as it is to our “small commercial team”.
I don’t want this to become a long ramble, so I guess perspective is paramount at times like these. We get some things right, others not so much, but we should definitely stick together to support the Club. Ditto, Arsene.
Nonny 99. Yeah, ‘interesting’.
And presumably that’s why, after having had Bould as coach in U19s for a while he elected to have him as first team coach, eh?
What a prick Robson in.
I’d congratulate you on the century though, but it’s another self-assist 😉
Bergkamp what an uplifting post, kudos man!
Looks like it is safe to come off under my rock, we were dire during the shalke game and we really had it coming, hope this result can give the players the kick in the ass they need to do better in the coming fixtures which come thick and fast.
Serge looks like a handful, hope we can get to see more of him, off to read the comments.
NCA please tell me it isn’t true.
I hate adidas. I think I might buy this year’s shirt as my last one ever if it’s true.
I’m guessing they’ll try to sweeten the fans and get a decent design in the first year, but their kits are shit.
I love my 1991 shirt of course (despite the 3 stripes on the sleeve, no more plain white is what adidas means…) but those were the days.
Their recent creations have been mostly horrorshows.
And they’ll always be associated with Marseille to me. Cunts.
NorCal@89, what day are you taking the stadium tour?
tabs@92: if I ever become president of anything or anywhere, you will be my speech writer! Not one word I disagree with as usual.
I also believe that FFP may not be as toothless as many would have it. If (and I know it is a big, big if) Gazidis is really telling the truth about the initiative coming mainly from the clubs and not UEFA as such, then it has a chance to make a difference. And there is not a loophole in the world that can cover a £200 million a year deficit for very long. Also, I don’t think it is entirely impossible to see further restrictions on squad sizes (like loans being outlawed for players older than 21, having to sell before you buy if you have a full squad et cetera) so the future might not be so bleak after all. There also seems to be, as has been mentioned by many, strong rumours about us having signed with Adidas for £25m a year which iirc would make out to £15 more per year than we are getting from Nike today, and that several other deals are also close to being completed.
Tim@73: now you and others can laugh all you want but – and I have not said this before for fear of being mildly ridiculed! – but ever since that Spanish chap left, I have had a feeling that we haven’t seen the last of him in an Arsenal shirt. Ok all, start laughing now… 🙂
Joe@105: that nine million Euros sum has been bandied about for a while but other sources say he’s not paid anywhere near that. I have seen tables that place Alex Ferguson far, far ahead of Arsene in wages, for example. There was one (on BBC I think) that showed Arsene being paid less than all of Ferguson, Mancini, AVB and Dalgslish. True? Who knows, but I wouldn’t take those nine million as gospel. Still a very good drink in any case Joe, have a pint on my tab!
Nonny, well in for the century but that WAS a self-assist… 😉
Adidas Hey, Hopefully they will give us a discount on there fine Forest Hill trainers ! Not sure on there kit making ability but a finer pair of trainers you will not find 🙂
I see Ollie also commented on the self-assist as I was typing 🙂
NorCal @89 – Perry will be good.
Morning all.
Here’s to a renaissance on Saturday.
tabs @ 92
I don’t see why I should have to do all the work 😉
So, plans need to be made by both of us. What is your eta on Saturday Mr Zico?
Is the other Andy Goram about to reveal his true identity? 😉
11:30, AndOllie 😉
Good post there BtM.
I’m not a member of the WOB (Wenger Aaaaht! Brigade) but despite all the positives we do get the same platitudes every year. We also know the situation will be the same this year as it has been for the last few.
I’m fine with that, but I think it needs saying that we have to be brutally honest here. We’ve got a couple of good new signings but truth be told, Skunk Face has not been properly replaced. Just like all the other star performers who left in previous years.
I love Wenger and wouldn’t want anyone else in charge but I don’t think anyone can disagree we’re still going round in circles.
Wot Camberwell said. Except I fear there is a slight downward incline to these spirals much like the alpha helix.
Hmm…looks like QPR will be first game I am going to miss this season, so I do hope that it will be pleasant look on highlights.
Brutal Honesty… is the way forward 8) Camberwell konws 😉
BTM, this post makes me wish I was going to the game and Tollie tomorrow so I could meet you in person, amazing wordsmithery! [In Awe (*o*)]
I’m with Ollie on the kit debate, but only because I’ve known Nike for Arsenal my entire life. Will definitely be getting this home kit if it will be the last Nike Kit for a while maybe… (Never say Never) 🙂
Oh Lars I am not laughing at your Cesc remark. I would love it, but not so sure it will happen unfortunately. Would love to see him and Cazorla play together for Arsenal. Sun shining here so off Viking Hiking for a bit, dreaming of Arsenal finding its feet again. Trying to find good chants to get the energy going and keep the rythym going. “Robin van Persie” used to be such a good one:( Any suggestions welcome, but must be suitable for a granny!
This time tomorrow we will be drinking the black part through the white part.
Practice making perfect, and all that, I shall have a training session in the local at five.
Heh, much to Roxette’s disapproval I have informed her I am woefully out of condition and need to get some practice in too.
Bring on the 8 pint preview ! 😉
Maybe five, after all it is only a training session, but I will warm down with a nice malt afterwards 😀
BtM – as always an enjoyable post.
You are the ultimate ‘my glass is half full’ exponent.
I’ve apologised for that he’s very knowledgeable. I enjoyed the piece.
Good afternoon,chums.
Good debate going on all around.
Btm,i’d have Cesc back in a heartbeat but not before purging him of his ego and every trace of every DNA that is not of the Arse.
“This time tomorrow we will be drinking the black part through the white part.”
Ferdinand is not a reverse choc-ice, you racist 😉
Good read. BtM. Glad your visit turned out well in the end. It is only sad that your observations on lack of balance, knee-jerk reaction and the knife-twisting in sound-bite journalism are so true. Flagrantly biased agendas and doom and gloom is what blogs are for, this inestimable establishment being a notable and rare exception.
really excited by the renegotiation of our shirt deal as spurs have a better deal than we do. i know the history, but we are the biggest team in the biggest city in europe (ignoring moscow completely) and apparently sell the third most shirts in the world. why is it we couldn’t renegotiate better terms for some of these deals?
i went searching on the intertubes for news of the adidas deal and came across a story about citeh renegotiating an umbro deal for £26 mill a year. they are the champions, but hardly have the same history or following as the arsenal, and yet they will probably get a better deal. this makes me cynical about our negotiation team with respect to commercial deals and our long term competitive prospects against these nouveau riche teams, their cash hoards aside. have we given up the last few years (near decade now) to build the stadium, sacrificing our competitiveness, all in vain?
anyway, i will gladly take back those hideous yellow, bird-track JVC jerseys for a stellar deal with a shirt-maker, unless it’s made by kim jong un industries. i agree; we will need to be able to pay a few players some absolutely outrageous wages to retain world-class talent and…sell shirts.
Club level v LWC’s on Tx for £148.
Actually, in relation to £123 for upper tier that isn’t a bad deal. I have half a mind to grab it.
@ 92
Please read my #31 again. Do we have a misunderstanding?
I described Santos as a boy who is currently being booed, which is true.
I was not referring to any patrons of this bar as ‘boo boys’.
Reasonable debate on differences of opinion with courtesy is, I believe, a hallmark of this website and what binds many of the posters together.
8ball @ #95
You’re very welcome and a pleasure as always.
@ 137 – the third highest seller of Nike shirts. The survey shows we’re the seventh best selling club split between Adidas and Nike, although sixth placed Liverpool have gone to another maker since the survey was completed. Averaging 800 000 shirts a year over a five year period, when those years have seen some of our shittiest designs ever, is not bad at all. £25m a year almost seems cheap.
Camberwell @ #94 – Nicely put. I’m concerned too. Is it all about (endless) patience, I wonder?
West Upper @ #132 – Again nicely put. BtM’s pints are always half full and long may it continue.
Trev @97 Cheers for the kind words and heh 🙂
Joe@98 – We are as one as regards our tubby left back. As regards Gervinho, I hear what you say, and to a large extent agree with it. I said in the last drinks that I still think there’s a player in there somewhere, and that is the frustrating part. That said, I would still maintain that in the light of recent performances it was a brave (nee stupid) call to have put him up top on Wednesday night.
As regards Giroud, though, we will have to agree to disagree. Not because I fundamentally disagree with you, but because I think it’s way too early to be passing judgement. There have been times in his fledgling Arsenal career where he has looked one-paced, but I think it would be wrong to say that there haven’t also been times where he has looked pretty useful. Even Bergkamp and Henry took time to get going. I do not mean to compare Giroud with those two superstars, but merely make the point that new players do have to be given time. A more salient comparison would be that of Alan Smith who also took a while to adapt, and he didn’t turn out too bad did he? The Jury remains out for me. As for Bendtner, the Jury roared out “Guilty!” for me a long time ago 😉
And Joe @105 – Thank you for the response. As always it was a pleasure to read. As you say, there is really only a “gap that any frog could straddle” 🙂 between our respective views. If you would indulge me a little longer however whilst I attempt to jump on that frog’s back, I would say the following :-
– I agree to a degree that there probably isn’t too much difference between the Board and Arsene, but as always the Devil is in the Detail. Certainly compromises have been made for the greater good, though I would disagree that Gazidis’ support for Arsene has always been “unequivocal”. The gaps between them are there and those gaps threatened to become a crevice in the summer of 2011. Both did brief the press with polar opposites of what the financial position was. Only one of them can be right, and I would therefore stick to the view that one cannot be fully supportive of the stance of both Arsene and the Board, given those differences. As we have discussed many times before here, Arsene’s continuing relationship with David Dein does give rise to questions given that Dein, though guarded and superficially supportive, always leaves the viewer with the implicit but clear message that he (Dein) believes the present Board are incompetent.
– I completely agree that the “rainy day” account is prudent. What I would argue is whether that account is rather too full? Surely, by not dipping into it, the Club makes the likelihood of D-Day ie non qualification for the Champions League, ever more realistic? Penny wise pound foolish?
– As regards signings, I still think it’s fair to say Arsene has an unequalled eye for a player, and that when he is given even reasonable money (say £7m) for a player he rarely gets it wrong. There are of course exceptions that prove the rule (Jeffers, Park), but for every Park or Jeffers there are many more that come off. Kos, Mert, Arteta, Sagna , Vermaelen and Cazorla are all examples of players that have clearly improved the side without breaking the Bank. A couple more of those in recent years (most notably at Goalkeeper), and who knows what might have occurred.
– As for Mannone we do disagree I’m afraid. Schez was clearly already hampered in pre season. From memory he only played one pre-season friendly. He then came in for the season’s opener, missed the next 2, came back for Southampton, and has been out ever since. Fabianski was injured. With 2 keepers injured, it could and should have been foreseen that we were going to have to rely on Mannone. I stand by that.
– As for Arsene I hope you’re right and that he continues at the helm. As you have already pointed out, there is very little difference, if any, between us.
BtM @110 – Cheers for the response Sir. There is nothing you have said there which I disagree with, but my point, I think, is that I’m not the one that you (we) need to convince.
I appreciate your optimism (generally I share it). Unless I am mistaken I also appreciate the conspiratorial wink that lies behind much of your writing. My concern is that by not at least acknowledging some of the more reasonable concerns that surround the Club we send more and more otherwise reasonable people into the grateful arms of Le Grove, the effect of which is to make Arsene’s job harder than it might otherwise be.
I realise that with every sentence I am sounding more and more like a moaning minnie. That is not my intention, and I will look forward to that Beer (if not the Haddock! 😉 ) tomorrow.
Derrick @112 – Cheers and agree with all you say.
Lars @116 Cheers and Heh. Lars for President! 🙂
Dr Z @120 🙂
Right, Im off to join Ollie in the “I hate Adidas” camp.
@139
No misunderstanding TS , I knew what you were trying to say.
My point is that if Santos can’t be arsed to get himself fit, then he deserves all the flak and boos coming his way.
TS,
Just in case: My endorsement of every word of Tabs’ piece was meant exactly in the spirit you describe @139, referring to his @92, referring to your @31, and in no way as a negative comment on your comment, which I hadn’t interpreted in that way anyway.
That’s cleared that up then.
We all know what we mean, don’t we. 😉
See, told you !
He was posting what I was posting while I was posting it – oh no, here we go again. 😉
Trev 🙂
Bah, just missed out on a block 1 for SPu*s
Lars @116,
Tour day will be Monday the 12th
Bath@119
Thanks for the input about the tour.
Ollie @115
I actually like Adidas over Nike foe shoes, they fit my feet better and their shoe designs are not bad. I will say that their shirt designs are often unimaginative. But since it more than doubles our current contract I will say its a step in the right direction.
Nonny @141
I probably added to the confusion with my post that we are third in shirt sales, but you are right, that is third in sales with Nike.
Cheers everyone.
Trev @ #145 – Brilliant and thanks for providing BIG hehs!
Tabs @ #144 – I’m glad that we cleared that up. I will remain in a majority of one for my on-going appreciation of Brazil’s finest chip-shop patron. I also believe that his alledged lack of fitness is heavily over-played but that is also a personal opinion.
I saw somewhere on Twatter a recent picture of the man himself in a pair of swimming trunks that were of the Speedo persuasion. I meant to post a link to demonstrate how super lean and fit he looked but I was fearful that it might have sparked something wholly unsavoury from the grand swimwear wearer himself.
PS: It’s a shame but we disagree on Adidas too based largely on early teenage joy of wearing Sambas of all descriptions.
Cheers TS, and I think your question – “Is it all about patience?” – is a worthy one.
To an extent I think it is. We need to be patient because we know it’s highly unlikely to be any better with a different manager at the helm. What did those wartime posters say? Better pot luck with Arsene than Humble Pie with Hitler, or something like that. Which may sound a bit harsh on the gaffer but sometimes that’s how it feels with this team.
Some have said before we always seem to be 2.4 top players short of a title-challenging team; others counter with, “Ah, but with the whole squad fit…” Fine, but we’ve always been just around the corner from fielding a fully-fit first XI, usually because of our (read: Wenger’s) reliance on players who can’t stay fit, Diaby being a perfect illustration of this. IF he was match-fit our midfield WOULD be much better – I’ve said this to myself so many times in recent years.
This is the best, most open forum for Gooners’ opinions but I still fear to speak my mind on this because I worry I’ll either be branded a doomer or told spending more cash guarantees nothing. Well, we need to spend more in the close season. There, I said it. I know the arguments against this solution very well but a few of our purchases in the last few years have been desperate, haven’t they? That nonsense has to stop – the transfer policy looks weak and disorganised and I’m no expert but a lot of the time you get what you pay for (Jeffers, Henry, Vieira and co aside).
Trev, just have a drink, will ya?
Camberwell – Again, nicely put. I think intelligent grumbling is the the new happy.
On that note, I hear unconfirmed reports that DLL are working furiously behind the scenes on the design and launch of “The Moody Train Mark 1”.
Do you think we’ll get many passengers?
TS – Fair enough, but I do think that if you looked at a close up of Santos sweating heavily and breathing like he’d just run a marathon, after no more than 10 minutes on Wednesday, then you would have seen a man that would struggle to run round the block, let alone play 90 minutes of Champions League Football.
As I’m sure Wolfie himself would testify there is a massive difference between looking good in a pair of Speedoes and being fit!
Everyone looks good in Speedoes!
Tabs
I’m trying to figure out what would be considered worse.
You looking a close-ups of a sweaty and heavy breathing Santos or me looking at pictures of him in swimwear on Twitter.
Please don’t answer that.
@ #155 – Never has the phrase “liar,liar” been more appropriate.
Great post, BtM sir, I love your optimistic view on all things Arsenal even though I’m not in total agreement with all your points.
I’m glad I read all the drinks before atempting to explain what I didn’t agree with, but it seems that TaBs has beaten my too it and with more eloquency then I could ever wish to achieve, another excellent post sir.
It’s difficult being a gooner at the mo’, it has been for a while. Too many want to pidgeonhole us into two or three catergories, we’re either an AKB’er, a member of the BBB’s or a Wanger Auttt fan and I agree entirely with your sentiment that the meedja will only print the views that put the club in a bad light, sensationalism is, as we all well know, the order of the day.
I personally have little to no interest at what goes on at the AGM, it’s all smoke and mirrors. We’re spoonfed soundbytes, a lot of talking occurs without anything really been said, the same questions are asked and the same answers are given, it’s all a bit pointless if you ask me. This doesn’t mean I don’t believe that the right questions shouldn’t be asked, but even if they were I don’t believe that the answers given are what we want to hear, just what those in control think we want to hear.
The biggest question is always why we’re not spending more and the answer is always that the money is there, but it’s never used. Now I’m not the kind of guy that wants us to break the bank, but like fellow ‘holic Steve T has been saying for years, are we being the best we can be?
I personally think we’re not.
I can understand that we will lose players to clubs offering more money, but we should never had let you know who go to one of our main rivals, that was business suicide, yes we got a tidy sum for him, but look what he’s doing for them, he’s doing what he did for us last season, making them better then they really are, a great bit of business for them and for every goal he makes a kick in the short and curlies for us. We should of taken the financial hit and sold him abroad, the 25mill is all well and good, but 25mill in the bank is not going to score us 30 goals.
The Diaby/Rosicky conundrum. Who can honestly, with hand on heart say that they expected one or both to last a whole season? The formers injury record is shocking, yet here we are again in October bemoaning or lack of depth in midfield.
The Mannone misplacement. That your first two keepers are out of action may very well be a freak occurance at another club, but we’ve been here before. We’re now stuck with a keeper who is nowhere near good enough, one the boss was willing to let go. Flappy can’t cut it either and Woj, although good is still raw and a toddler in goalkeeping terms. We all knew we needed proper back up, we have for years, yet once again we come up short.
These are issues that I believe have nothing to do with the board, so logic dictates that the buck must stop at the manager, yet to question means in many fans’ eyes that you are anti-Wenger and that’s just wrong.
I really don’t care what IG has to say, I believe we should do our talking on the pitch, I understand that we are no longer just a club, but are a business, but that business is still football, the better we are on the pitch, the better we will be on a business level.
Finally, I know what your getting at, but calling Ajax a little club is pretty condescending, lest we forget that they have God in their management team and their honours list puts ours to shame, not too mention that they have a stadium that has a 50,000 plus capacity and now have won their league tthe last two seasons running.
I wish we were that small. 😉
TS – I may well get the odd ticket for the MT mark I (which will be full of people stroking their chins and staring pensively into the middle distance) but reserve the right to keep my HT season ticket (it’s the only one I can afford).
And on that note I do believe it may be time to, as Shakespeare said, “do one.”
Spare a thought for me all as I have to stay dry until I’ve driven the management to Essex (think 10pm).
I’m glad that we cleared that up. I will remain in a majority of one for my on-going appreciation of Brazil’s finest chip-shop patron.
Nah, I’m sure Jordan is still on board too.
As for adidas, just one word: Tapie 😉
(and yes I used to have Nastase tennis shoes, I confess).
H2H, I’ve given up on Diaby’s fitness over a season ago, and I barely dare hope for these first few games when he played; but Rosicky seemed to be over that whole injury thing, had a mostly injury-free season last season, and I didn’t expect him to break down so badly at the Euros. Truly gutting.
h2h.
THANK YOU, it’s like you read my mind. Your words are EXACTLY where I’m at right now.
BtM’s glass is always half full? So that’s why he never goes to the bar????
Tabs. Nothing at all wrong with little tubby left backs I can assure you. Quite an exclusive little club I’m told.
Professor, you are fooling yourself if you think Santos’ “lack of fitness is overplayed”.
Even were he fit, he can’t defend.
I think Wenger realises that as well – hence his being overlooked for Gibbs.
Sign Leighton Baines and sell Santos.
Sorted.
Heavy breathing, sweaty Brazilians in Speedoes …..
What kind of bar is this ?
Hehs @156 and @157.
Camberwell @151 – Speak away, nothing there to disagree with.
H2H – You do yourself a disservice. Brilliant post.
Nastase tennis shoes Ollie? Always a Stan Smith man here 😉
SteveT – Haha 🙂
H2H – excellent post.
One debating point for me – Do you really think that RvP would have left this country? I think it’s too simplistic to suggest that is what we should’ve done (i.e sold him abroad) because I think his move had already been decided at the first meeting before the Euros.
p.s.
Too many top drinks on this and the lat post to mention, made for great reading.
Cheers ladies and gents.
I’d like to get into the FFP debat, but Friday afternoon session is kicking in.
Laterzzz.
I can design shirts for Adidas. Team colors, three stripes on the sleeves, Adidas logo…..ta da.
H2H. Good points all. It’s good to remember though that even with God in their management team Ajax don’t win all their games.
Ollie. You mean to say you don’t still have your Nastase tennis shoes? Bad move on your part then. 😉
Cheeers lads,.
I’ll get back to you on that, Zico.
The Friday at five pint. Is there a better drink? The starter for what will be a wet weekend.
Wrap up in layers tomorrow, Tolliegoers. It is going to be brass monkeys in the beer garden.
No shorts then? 😉
Et tu zico? 🙁
TS. For your edification I have a picture here of the engineer aboard the Moody Train Mark I:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/entertainment_goblet_of_fire/img/3.jpg
I shall refer to your attire in the preview, Dr z…
must have had 2 or 3 pairs, bt8, but certainly didn’t keep them as collectors.
Haven’t bought any kind of Adidas product since…. we moved to Nike, I guess… but I won’t switch back, even if we move to Adidas.
H2H @ 158 – Great contribution. I am of your persuasion also.
Nice one tabs
@177,
Hob-nail boots and a skirt? 😉
Another two years then we’ll be great again, you’ll see.
Hands up if you’d like to take £600k per year in BONUS for doing…..well, erm, well not sure what really. Then times that by two.
We’ll be great in two years though. You’ll see.
Ollie. Here’s a picture of the Ilie Nastase shoes for old times sake. I can’t say they are as stylish as Wolfie’s shoe of choice, however.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37901436@N08/6775318467/
So I work with people who can’t write French or English, and they don’t seem to have a logical or scientific mind either.
And so some element of information was missing from the procedure, I did specifically ask about this and a couple of other things in an e-mail, but essentially the reply I got was ‘yeah’….
So now it’s friday evening, bloke’s gone so I don’t know any other way but to let those fucking traces run all weekend and hope I get another reply at some point on monday.
Hopefully this won’t affect anything, but I’m fucking damned if it does.
I could murder someone but I think I’ll just go.
If the thing crashes, maybe a few calls will be dropped.
But frankly, I can’t be arsed anymore, I am just fed up with stupid cunts.
Nastase or just plain old nasty trainers Ollie?
Always an Adidas Gazelles type of bloke. TS will understand.
Holic, surely the 8 pint Friday tops that? Start the weekend with a sociable gallon. You can’t beat it.
Ollie. There’s nothing like low tech solutions to calm the nerves. 😉
Ollie @184 – you need the T-shirt that says:
“How can I soar like an eagle when I’m surrounded by turkeys?”
Come and drink to forget with the rest of us tomorrow Ollie. What time are you due?
Steve T @ 185: I must confess that sociable gallon would end my weekend these days!
Holic. I am of the understanding that there are several of our Caladonian brothers with us tomorrow. It will be Ambre Solaire weather for them surely?
Tabs. It’s all about the width. I don’t know how many times I have to say it?
😉
Well, I think I managed to stop the thing somehow, I think I deserve a pint.
Tomorrow.
Time to go home.
Steve T. You are correct on your pints to gallon conversion. Far from the entire world knows this kind of thing, I can assure you being from the part of the world that does not. Three points to you, and here’s some documentation backing you up.
http://www.asknumbers.com/GallonToPint.aspx#.UIq-_UJqYw0
Bath. But you been there, seen it and worn the T Shirt with considerable pride I would guess? I salute you sir.
Long, long time ago….
Curls a long ball down the right wing for someone to run onto.
Knocked down towards the middle…..
Chipped back out to the inside right channel.
Jogs Denilson-like slowly towards opposition box.
But keeps running hard.
Dummies towards goal
@ 181
Now they tell me – formal dress then? 😛
Just enough time for an assist before I leave?
Holic wins his pound!
No, I do a tabs.
Well in zico.
Well in zico (again).
Better to be lucky than good, sunshine.
‘holic : 1pm I believe; although due to the extortionate holiday-style price (tickets were €200 one way over a month before tomorrow!!) I am travelling on points so have an exchangeable ticket.
An extreme bout of non-laziness might lead me to take the train an hour earlier but I wouldn’t bank on it.
Unless I am actually booked on the earlier train, have to check, but I don’t think.
Right, can I go home now?
Thanks.
Got a feeling I will be waking up in Swansea tomorrow night 🙁
Bad influence, you lot…
Where did those two come from? Guess I should have looked up. Cheers
TS @ 175
It’s an opinion. You too can have one. 😉
A nice walk along the Mumbles at 1am in a wintry gale will certainly clear the head. Better stow a hip flask of your 12yo Islay to keep you warm/alive.
Great performance on the arsecast btw, Holic. Voice of reason.
Come and get it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(Have bought Laphroaig to keep the cold at bay, bath!)