The Questions That Never Get Answered
Nov 23rd, 2014 by 'holic
Two excited youngsters are met and whisked off to enjoy a pre-match pizza. Mum asks, “what is your prediction this afternoon?”. I tell her I fancy we have learned our lesson and will win 2-1. “What lesson?” Nearly every time we have played them in recent years they sit back and catch us with one or two lightning breaks, I explain. We can’t be that naive again, surely?
We arrive at the ground early and two wines and a couple of fizzy drinks cost half as much as the feast we have just enjoyed. Snaps are taken as the boys enter Block 26. Wide eyed, and smitten they are. I’m just a bit nervous. I thought the family section was in the corner, not behind the goal. When the match kicks off so does the abuse of van Persie, and Tottenham. That won’t stop, but why are the club selling junior Gunners tickets in this area? Everybody stands, again something I don’t object to, but it means the youngest has to stand on his seat to see the match.
What the boys see in the first half is encouraging. Some of the football from Arsenal is memeric, but the lion is somewhat toothless and clawless. A couple of chances for Danny Welbeck and one for Jack Wilshere came and went before Jack was put clear through on goal. Setting the tone for the afternoon he placed his effort straight at De Gea. A big moment it would prove to be. De Gea had magnetic qualities as far as the ball was concerned. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain rounded him but he recovered to block when once again the opening goal seemed imminent. Sanchez too put an effort straight at him.
Arsenal were becoming nervous, the confidence seemingly draining out of them towards the end of the half, and Di Maria curled an effort just past the far post. This was a warning that United were up to their old tricks against us. We didn’t heed the lesson. At half-time we could at least sit and encourage each other. The beaming grins of pre-match had turned to nervous expressions but we were surely going to win playing like this, weren’t we?
Again De Gea didn’t have to move far to clutch an Alexis effort as Arsenal poured forward. Then the inevitable happened, Wojciech Szczesny and Kieran Gibbs collided as both attempted to deal with a hopeful Fellaini punt and Valencia’s wild effort was deflected into his own goal by the prone Gibbs. Cue a deafening silence at the Clock End for what seemed like a minute before the first obscenities starting gushing forth. The atmosphere deepened further, and the first rumblings of ‘friendly fire’ were heard.
Off went Szczesny, on came Martinez. We poured forward, finding De Gea it seemed with every goalbound effort. Olivier Giroud’s arrival almost brought an instant reward, but his header was too high. As we streamed forward United again countered. Two against one, Di Maria set Rooney free for a second. Shambolic defending for a young central defender and a tiny goalkeeper to witness. Hopefully this (Sunday) morning they don’t do as poorly.
The home support started to dwindle rapidly. We were able to sit again with clear rows in front of us. Eight added on minutes finally saw two young boys cheering when Giroud smashed one high and wide of De Gea into the net. Arsenal being Arsenal there had to be hope, didn’t there? United though ran down the clock and frustrated as tempers frayed on the pitch as well as off it. The frustration was understandable, but the reaction infantile and self-defeating.
Shorn of defensive stability and discipline this current Arsenal team is seeking elusive ruthlessness. The pretty patterns and sharp interplay in and around the box is desperately seeking finishing touches. One gets the feeling that a poorly organised opponent will get terrorised one afternoon soon, but Arsenal need something else against stronger rivals. United, equally hapless at the back came with a tried and trusted gameplan, and it worked.
When will we learn that lesson? When will our luck turn? When will Kos, Mesut, and Theo return? Will they alone solve what ails us? The January transfer window is gaining added significance with every passing poor result. Hopefully when the young defenders return they will see a better example to follow.
204 Responses to “The Questions That Never Get Answered”
Cheers H! For everything. Absolute top boy.
“………………….but the reaction infantile and self-defeating”
And speaking words of wisdom mate, as usual. I’m off the lot for a bit, so keep up the excellent work, and once thanks to yourself and The Sea Warrior.
I’ve said before the transfer window won’t save us, especially not if Kos has even a sniff of recovery: it’ll be the perfect response to ‘why didn’t you buy anyone?’
The mistakes are the same every time without fail (barring freak days when top opposition have an off day against us). We are defensively retarded and get looser and even more reckless when we start shipping goals, the exact opposite of the proper reaction. No defence. For Wenger I mean.
The question I think that should be asked is ” Is ANYONE confident that Arsene can lead this team to CL or EPL glory ever again ? I can’t honestly imagine any fan saying Yes. I’ve supported the Gunners since 1968 and have always backed Arsene, but I just can’t see him knowing how to turn all this around. Tired of the excuses, explanations, lack of tactical know-how and his surprising bad manners at times. I wish he would bow out gracefully with dignity but I fear his exit when it inevitably must come will be sad ! The only reasonable replacement we could get quickly would be Klopp, who could be prised away with compensation to Dortmund – I don’t think we can carry AW to the end of the season.
Nice report holic,how you can keep a lid on it amazes me,suppose you’ve seen it all before.very frustrated gooner. ๐
Well it was there for all to see again; tactically Wenger does not have clue. How many times have we seen 8 Arsenal players in the opposing half, only for the opposition to break away and score almost without a challenge. Have you ever seen a Mourinho team do that.
Without giving away that present of a second goal, Giroud’s goal would have been the equaliser and we would not feel half as down as most Gooners do today.
There has to be a sea-change of attitude and sadly I cannot see it happening under Arsene Wenger. He should have retired in glory having won the FA Cup, instead of which he will possibly leave under a cloud. Such a shame after all he has done for the club (but not in recent years !)
Well said porco.Very well said
Equally well said Steve. Simple and straight forward questions indeed.
Holic
When we have youngsters with us we watch games with a different attitude don’t we? I would not have liked to have watched that game with my six and five year old grandsons – and it would not entirely be down to the quality of defending. There’s just too much media around now and football is being drowned in it . It has seeped into people’s consciousness and affected the way we ‘ support’ our team.
But Steve 53 writes a measured and well argued post. I think the frustration arises from a complicated chain of events. There is just no way Kroenke will sack Wenger this season. He meets his requirement for a manager perfectly. He deflects almost all the fire from the Board and has a hide like a rhinoceros. I sense a draining of energy from him which is not surprising given the time he has been at the top and the diligence with which he has worked. But those supporters who debate rationally might ask why we are so vulnerable to breakaways, why we can’t close games out, why our approach work fails to yield more goals , why corners at both ends are a cause for alarm and why we look so disorganised in defence. Does Steve Bould have any input at all? I hear from several sources he and Wenger are not seeing eye to eye. If the story that has been published today about Jonker changing the style of the junior teams to a high- tempo pressing style at odds with Wenger’s philosophy that suggests a major schism in the club.
Wenger didn’t set this squad up properly at the start of the season. We are acutely vulnerable to breakaways because we don’t have a player who can play the holding role with dynamism and authority. Were there none in world football we could have acquired? We had wafer thin cover for our centre backs, one of whom looks half the player without a pacy partner and yet ‘ we couldn’t find anybody’ . Both of those failures have had a huge impact on our season.
Trev has produced some excellent pieces on our injury issues yet we seem to have neutered the work of Shad Forsythe very effectively . Our injury record set against Chelsea’s can’t be a matter of bad luck.
If Wenger can’t reconcile a lot of conflict then the rest of this season will be a massive ordeal for us all.
I mentioned how bad the atmosphere is. If Dortmund go two up after twenty minutes on Wednesday many people will get up and go. We have to hope that Wenger can do what he has done each season since we have been at the Emirates and rally the troops so we can at least complete the season respectably and qualify for the CL so that we are able to sign decent players and the Board do not pull their horns in without the extra spending money the CL gives.
Beyond that there is a big debate about AW’s future. I don’t think the Board as a whole have any appetite to remove Wenger but I suspect Gazidis would like someone less intransigent. Who influences Kroenke the most will decide the immediate future direction of our club.
Still pissed today! So much I don’t even want to talk about football ๐
Really need Roger and Stan to rescue what’s left of this weekend.
Come on guys, put the frenchies away!
It is not a concern . Arsenal plays much better this year than last year . The evidence is we are at pair or better than Man Utd , which is not the case many years ago . And make no mistake , Man Utd is still Man Utd , no matter what people said .
In a few weeks time , Kos , Debuchy , Ozil , Walcott will be back , the team will be much stronger and defensively stronger .
AW is AW , he uses every opportunity to groom young players in the name of Ramsey , Wilshire , Chambers and there are always consequences like lack of experience and non consistent performance .
By XMAS we will see
You do have to wonder what this arsenal team under wenger practice on the training ground
The second goal from Rooney saw no less than 9 arsenal players in the oposition 30 yard zone except monreal and our keeper. Not only do we get caught once with 9 ahead of the ball and concede the winning goal, we actually get caught again in the 93rd minute in the same ridiculous shape and only a misjudged dimaria chip saves a 3rd embarrasing goal.
We attack with ” no width”
We defend wide open with holes everywhere
Ramsey spends most of the game playing striker
We try to pass out of trouble in our own danger zone
We dont shoot unless straight at opposing keepers who consistently seem to be judged as ” the oppositions best players”
(OG- must have missed that session)
Chezney keeps like he has never met any of our fullbacks.
Jack must be told to practice slow down all potential attacks in the opposing third and lose the ball ?
Had I been a neutral it would have been a great game to watch but I am a Gooner of some vintage ( I saw Jimmy McGill play many times in the late 50s).
Having today read the programme notes of AW, Arteta and interview notes with the BFG I am at loss to understand how we yet again lost our heads and poured forward en mass leaving ourselves wide open at the back. It’s not what you say that matters ,it’s what you do on the pitch that counts.
We should have been home and dry by the interval. No side at our level, who created 5 shots on target, can afford to waste such chances and expect to win the game. We shot ourselves in both feet and although for much of the game we played some lovely football, we finish up with nil point.
I fully understand that many fans are totally frustrated with the current situation at the club. The lack of signings in the summer at CB and DMF have come home to roast and it is difficult to see where we are going in the immediate future, certainly until Kos returns and is there to sweep up at the back.
There is huge talent at the club and I still feel that there is hope in the longer term that we can make an impact this season on the league . I have not given up on Arsene but we do need a result on Wednesday, otherwise the volume will be turned right up for changes which might be more than Stan and Co can ignore.
As always COYRs
dws
I too am rooting for Roger and Stan this afternoon, was at the 02 last week.
Delia – It wouldn’t be so frustrating if the same story hadn’t been going on for the last ten years. Even the most supportive fan has been observed to post things about how we don’t have enough quality and the January window is vital in that ten years.
And yet every year is the same old story.
I wonder how much of this season’s woe is down to complacency? Through the dry spell an opinion often posted by many, and spoken about by players, is that this group just needs to win a trophy and then we’ll be off again on the road to success. It hasn’t quite happened and I wonder if everyone just expected it to.
Still, there’s worse things that could happen than losing a game of football.
Not many, but a few.
Ttg and Delia, thank you for your rational and reasoned posts. A lesson for those who see things only in black or white and know (of course you do) what is going on at Shenley…
Twitter and NewsNow a breeding ground for the hard of thinking today.
Holic!
This is exactly what I needed! Having young ones at the game makes you look at the whole thing with a different view! I hope they had a good time despite the result on the score board!
What is happening to Ramsey this season is a little bit of a mystery to me. Are we relying on Alexis too much? His body language wasn’t good to look at the final whistle!
We dominated them the Ref missed a really bad tackle on Wilshere! Seems lady luck is not on our side this season.
Who is going to the Dortmund game? Because I surely will be there myself!
Fine post, Mr Holic. I looked for you at The Tolly not remembering you had the youngsters in tow. I had the delight of Her Nellieness riding shotgun and the pleasure of the company of an old friend suffering a severe cancer prognosis which put’s mere football pitfalls like these in a perspective that few seem to be able to muster.
Excellent Arsenal first half I thought. A pleasure to watch again this morning on Aplayer. Nil-nil at half time was ominous though from 45 minutes that on a different day could have yielded a barrowfull in favour of the fine young team in red.
The young gentleman who sits beside me is 80 plus (cough) and wears specs with two coke bottle bottoms as lenses. When Fellaini pushed Gibbs into Woj he said “Obvious foul, why hasn’t he blown/” Good question. Seconds later a Valencia shot that was heading for the corner flag bounced off Gibbs and we were one nil down against a team who has spent 160M and look like shit.
“When will Kos, Mesut, and Theo return? Will they alone solve what ails us?” NO! But add Debuchy, and a fully fit Giroud to the mix and the answer becomes YES. No team on the planet can lose their top two defenders AND two highest scorers and play at their peak.
And before I hear another sad chorus of “why didn’t Arsene Wenger anticipate all of these injuries and buy new talent?” He did. In the form of Sanchez, and Danny (specifically to cover Giroud) Debuchy (for Sanchez) and Chambers for Vermaelen. “Yes, but he didn’t buy a tried and tested centre-back” (like the fabulous Squillacci for example ๐ who’s now sitting on his yacht in Monaco courtesy of four years on the Arsenal bench when the masses though ‘buy a CB, any CB”).
Manure spent 160M. They knew that Ferdinand and Vidic were going. They knew that Jones and Smalling are fitness liabilities. Barcelona knew Pujol needed replacing and between them, they boughtโฆโฆโฆ???????? ah yes, Vermaelen, who couldn’t even get into our team last season and hasn’t kicked a ball this.
Was the Centre-Back shop on Holloway Road closed? Had they run out of stock? Must have, I suppose or all these clever men sou;d have popped down their and “just bought a centre half (or two while they were at it.
I’ll see you at the Tolly for the Dortmund game if you’re there on Wednesday and look forward to seeing that fine young squad of ours do their stuff and enjoy, once more, being in the presence of Arsene Wenger.
Sadly, my mate won’t. He didn’t miss a game home or away last season but he starts a five day intensive session of radio therapy to eradicate the cancer cloud on his brain that stopping some of his body parts working properly. And that’s before he starts experimental chemo to cure the massive foul mass on his lung. “I don’t think I’ll make it to West Brom ether, mate. I expect I’ll be a little too tired”
And did anyone notice how Monreal put Van Stinkie in his back pocket and strolled around smiling while the little boy bleated. I loved that!
We have to compare apple with apple . Man Utd , Man City and Chelsea are a class apart with their unlimited financial power .
Arsenal should be in the bracket of Liverpool and Spurs . We heard people said Liverpool and Spurs haven’t bought right , this is not true , they have bought right except the landscape has changed completely .
What has changed is the huge financial clout of the EPL and that create gap or chaotic performance of our players or Liverpool , Spurs players compare with perfect , flawless performance of world class players like Di Maria , Yaya Toure , Aguerro and the like .
So it come down on what you like , a pretty much a traditional Athletic Football Club or a Billionaire Football Club which has nothing to do with Athletic .
@BtM
Excellent! Excellent Post!
Mouthwatering it shall be, the prospect of seeing Ozil, Kos, Debuchy, Theo and Giroud back and linking up with Alexis and Welbeck(on the wings please!)
๐
Bergkamp’s the man,
Yes, we have injuries but what has that got to do with making the same tactical mistakes time after time. This has nothing to do with us missing a couple of players, it’s down to instructions from the coaches. And if the players are not following them, then we have a bigger problem. Yes when debuchy and Kos comes back we will be more solid, but I don’t think that would solve our problems. Before Ozil got injured, we were still playing badly, because of our formation. There is a major problem with us, and I don’t know how we can resolve it, and sadly neither does Wenger. I hope the fans going to the game on Wednesday would stay and support the team, because it’s going to be along night. Can this team beat Dortmund? Sure they can, but you and I know that most likely won’t happen, because somehow we will self destruct.
“You and I know this won’t happen” please NEVER speak for me. Your views are 100 per cent contrary to my own.
Manu didn’t do shit yesterday, but they followed instructions. I never saw more than three players in our side of the pitch almost throughout the whole game. As much as we don’t like Mourinho, you never see his team bombing forward like there is no tommorrow, why because they follow instructions, so the question becomes what is Wenger telling his players. We were 1-0 down, we could have still gotten something from that game. I just feel Wenger tells his players to go out there and express themselves, without specifically telling them what he expects. Even Mert was playing as a winger during that match yesterday, I mean what was that for? No matter how good or bad we play these days, we seem to lose matches.
Good for you then. Am happy they are 100% contrary to yours.
That’s the good thing about being fans of a club as big as Arsenal. Our views will always be 100% contrary to others.
Saintly, ‘Holic. Saintly.
BtM, all the best wishes for your friend. A reminder that football is only the most important of the least important things.
Delia: had we shot ourselves in both feet yesterday, De Gea would have saved those, too. But you make the right point. We should have sown up that game yesterday by half-time. If you don’t put away your chances at that level, you don’t win. Jack fluffing a shot he would have scored nine times out of ten has little to do with the manager’s tactical nous or transfer dealings. What worries me about it all is that we seem regularly to be failing to convert chances at a sufficiently high rate.
‘holic
‘hello
temporary hiatus in my hiatus
sterling work, fella
sterling !
.
cunt of a day yesterday
.
feel like a bucket of dung
(but where can ye get a cheap full one of a sunday ?)
๐
.
some champion posts from all over
brilliant
nztonigeriaton7
always a pleasure to drink here
.
cheers big man
and
howdy abb from cba
(sorry – no steve T – just me – ‘pologies ๐
.
howdy ‘holics various
THE ARSENAL !
.
(watery cunts need not apply)
BtM – best wishes to your mate.
Cba – your return to the bar one of very few plus points in this utter crapper of a weekend.
Holic – the usual good sense and perspective. Cheers, gaffer.
Welcome back, cba. Always a pleasure.
BtM – sorry to hear your friend’s plight.
cba – good to see you – don’t be a stranger, just be strange ! ๐
peter
@31
groovy name
as jesus himself christ said
“you are the rock upon which i build my church”
.
peter
@31
may i , in awe and humility, lay the first brick on you ?
bless you my son
Well, well, well…
It never quite fails. (1) Everyone who is full of knowledge on how Wenger has fouled everything up, comes out of the woodwork after we’ve lost (funnily enough, we’d likely’ve been top of the table if you had shared your insight prior to now, instead of hoardings it for just AFTER a defeat) and (2) self-imposed exiles are ended engendering the obligatory “welcome back”s (when no one made you “leave” in the first place).
Spare me both.
Onwards and upwards. Hope your youngins had a fine day out ‘Hols. Nice to hear from you ABB.
BMBD
bitterness must be destroyed
I’d suppose Rodgers would be getting the sack now along with Wenger?!
๐
Bring on Dortmund!
Up The Arse!
Not bitter. Just correct.
But I’ll no longer argue with or comment against the master of pithy remarks. Please, here we are now…entertain us.
BMBD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SVtqv6RzJc
.
VOTE
.
http://www.fifa.com/ballon-dor/puskas-award/
Most of the reasoned, rounded, constructive analyses of yesterday’s match and the season as a whole seem to be coming from people with a reasonable grasp of perspective and basic grammatical skills (note the use of the word ‘constructive’ and not ‘pro-Wenger’), where as the ‘Wenger out’ brigade seem almost entirely commensurate with hysteria, lack of perspective and borderline illiteracy….There’s a lesson in there somewhere!
@36
*roll’s eye’s*
(wee ‘,” summat fer nz – top man ๐ )
.
yer list jazzateers seen – mindbogglin – brilliant
Btm – what an awful business cancer treatment is. I pray for your friend it is successful and as tolerable as possible. I hope Arsenal can lift his spirits in the interim. I also hope Arsenal can find their true supporters through this period.
BB @ 35 — As predicted (by Arsene and others who know football) this is turning out to be a strange season. The start-up after the big internationals are often like this but around the ten match mark a trend stabilizes. Not this time. We have ‘Pool and Spurs in the bottom half of the table. If we don’t win our next one — unthinkable! I know — we will probably be there too.
On the other hand if we win our next 3-4 at a row we will at least be 4th — ManU is not going to get that lucky with opposition’s finishing every match — and pushing for 3rd.
A good pre-season has always been instrumental for a successful Arsene Wenger team.
We just need to get on a mini-run. If we were playing yesterday’s match in such a run the finishings would have had more convictions and we would not have panicked so much after conceding the first goal. Yesterday’s performance was promising, just a little bit of confidence and we should start seeing the results.
Top-shelf drink on the bar, cba, for your comment @ 32. An unfortunate cross-timing of our posts. “As jesus himself christ”…very funny.
Still not overly fond of court jesters, mind you. And no fan of the “Parable of the Prodigal Son,” but kudos all the same.
BMBD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIBmGZxAhg
Doctor Faustus,
I like your reasoning most of the times, but I just have a question for you. When do you think we will get this run of wins going. This is not us going thru some kind of slump and bounce out of it. There is lack of believe among this group of players. Do they even listen to Wenger anymore? what about discipline in defense? other seasons when we had problems we tend to score and just defend which worked fine. We can say we have better players now, but we don’t have a good team simple as that. And it all goes back to the boss, whether we like it or not.
@DocFaust
Exactly my sentiments, we just need to get a good run going.
And we have the added advantage of our better players coming back from injury (said it..hope it’s not jinxed now!).
Giroud clearly showed what we were missing in our attack, physical presence and of the imposing kind too! Welbeck doesn’t cut it at this point of time, he just needs to be more imposing and work on his finishing.
That’s why he’ll probably play on the wings or be on the bench once Giroud is fully fit.
Exciting times ahead, i think we’re a defensive signing or two from being a team capable on mounting a challenge. If only we could somehow get our injury problem sorted out.. that seems to be the major stumbling block, we just can’t get a decent run with our first choice players, let’s hope it’ll happen soon!
๐
Doctor Faustus
” A good pre-season has always been instrumental for a successful Arsene Wenger team ”
I agree 100%
This year we don’t have a good pre-season , Sanchez and the German contingent are coming in very late + major injuries of key players
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekgHIXJWF0
Goonerholic,
I hope that the grand-boys’ pizza and fizzy pop went down more gently after the Giroud strike.
BtM,
All the best progress on your friend’s cancer therapy.
I’ve now decided to just take a watch, support the players, wait and see approach towards the perennial travails at our club. One thing is definite regardless of where you sit; the end comes to us all. Up the Arse…
d danC
i have 5 fingers
i writes an speeches 5 lingos 2
don’t get me started on lefty !
thick
Characteristically masterful match report and a joy to read. Cheers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoE5o1NxreU
one for texas
cheery chum
erudition brings repetetive dullition
and
made up worditions
As they say “It is de ja vu all over again” I look back at my comments on 606 years back and we moan the same and hope the same,
Different spectrum of fans arguing with each other and discrediting others for their ideas, grammar and biased view.
The fact is Wenger has consistently got us into top 4.
He was a pioneer of tactics, diet and man management ant changed football here for the better. His ideals now are different; and believes that football that is pleasing to eye is longer lasting rather than win at all costs. Fans want more. Success requires money and sacrifice. He isn’t prepared for it.
His shrewdness in transfer market was known before until the purse string opened though due to lack players of right quality this has meant overplay for others and injuries.
He should have bought an out and out striker, a holding midfielder and a quality defender yet his priority now is to attract top rare talent regardless of position or the ones here may leave!
The fact is four wins is not where we should be given the money we spent! We should be able to beat the likes of swindons!
He needs to identify his successor and start a Handover period.
Best wishes and get well soon!
Fine and measured report H and excellent contributions from TTG, Delia, BtM, Faustus, Gregoire, iLonestar and BB. Probably others.
I feel utterly groundhogged. It is ridiculous that we lost that game. We should have been ‘out of sight’ at HT.
We have had such bad luck that I am really beginning to believe the rumours of Spud supporting brickies depositing Voodoo dolls and curses in the foundations of the Grove.
Nonetheless despite the utterly desperate nature of our last few performances and results we are a mere two points off fourth and as BtM observes, we have high quality players on the books and due to return over the next few weeks.
Let’s man up and support the team. Cannons outward.
COYGs
And welcome back cba. Stick around, pal.
Cheers ‘holic.
Howdy cba.
Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery for your friend, BtM.
Bath. I would like to add N7 (243 previous) to your list of fine posts. Kudos ladies and gents.
@53 Bath knows ๐
Welcome cba, your posts will liven up many a dour-fest of feistiness!
I didn’t have the heart to look at the Drinks yesterday but have now had a quick back drink fortified by this evening’s reading of Holic’s blog.
Great posts ttg @185, Oskar @217 and after, N7@243 and Desi@244.
It’s reassuring to see that there are some rational gooners out there.
The sense of entitlement and incisive ‘wisdom’ of some others is truly astonishing.
I guess the Club have to realise that they will reap how they have sown.
Having expanded their support with the clear intent of increasing their revenue and treated longstanding supporters as the same kind of ‘income fodder’, it is perhaps no surprise that when the promise of glory and instant gratification proves undeliverable, the old style ‘supporter through thick and thin’ turns out to be a minority group and is drowned out by the clamour for the manager’s head.
O tempora, o mores.
Even if I don’t have a flying fig what you’re on about and smoking!
Heh @ Dapper Dan @ 59. Too true.
Holic you have surpassed yourself with your report….the tone is spot on.
Would also commend the excellent drinks above from all the regulars, a level of clear thinking and concern but above all we are supporters of the club, not just customers. N7 in his drink in the previous blog (243) summed up perfectly how I feel.
It was extremely disappointing to lose such a match when dominating a poor Manure side ( Van Skunk – can only remember seeing him touching the ball twice). The performance was better than many of late, quite encouraging in fact. If we can start to put the ball in the net – opposition’s preferably ๐ and defend as team, then with the returning injured we should be back in the top four.
Best wishes to your pal BtM.
Grand to see cba dropping in for a jar….all the beasts indoors now?
I must admit, I can’t remember feeling as utterly dejected about a result as I did yesterday (and still do today if I’m being honest). I wanted us to crush them, I really believed we could and this was the first time I’d felt that way going into a game against them in quite a while.
They were crap, we totally outplayed them. I feel robbed. Anyone daft enough to spout nonsense about being tacticaly out thought or thinks that Manure won by any grand design or plan has the IQ of a retarded potato. They were shit, pants, poo, plop, aaaarggggghhhhhh. Fuck this hurts.
The only solace I can take from this is that if I feel this way then how must the players be feeling? Even if they only feel a small percentage of the hurt that I’m experiencing then that’s still tantamont to having your knackers removed with a blunt spoon. I hope that they take that horrible feeling and it’s spurs them on to better things. I bet they were sitting in the dressing room afterwards thinking “How the fuck did that just happen??” Surely they have to be? Right?
**Warning—Straw clutching about to commence**
Who knows? Maybe this could be the knee in the groin that kick starts our season. The utter disgrace of losing to the worst Manc team since Moses was in short pants could be the catalyst that proppels us to better days. As Yazz once mused “The only way is up”………..
Okay, maybe I’m being overly optimistic, but what else can I do?
Ofcourse I could sit here and endlessly piss and moan about setups, unpurchased players, absent boardmembers, lost plots and such nots, but what’s the fucking point?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m as dissapointed as the next person and I know all to well that not everything is roses and moonshine at our beloved club. But sometimes you just have to accept that the gods have conspired against you and they’ve decided that it was your parade that they would give a good urine hosing to, the basterds.
Fuck those jammy Mancuntz.
Up The Arse.
Bath @58. Splendid, splendid post – spot on!
Peter, people might actually respond to you more favourably (or at all) if you treat them with a modicum of respect.
Good evening everyone.
BTM, Sorry about your mate. I know you will be there for him. And that will mean a lot to him. xx
Holic, As much as I look forward to your post game reviews when we win, it’s when we lose, that I need them, the most.
On a brighter note, the pic of your grandkids (twitter) made me smile. Precious, the both of them.
cba, well, my word, how you make us ๐
Lonestar, always so nice to see you here, as well.
Good posts since I last visited, just need to finish the last set of drinks, whew. ๐
Again, what H2H said @62.
Bath gooner,
I don’t understand what you mean by fans self entitlement. Are the fans suppose to be happy with what is going on with the team.We have won 4 games all season. You said we are merely 2pts from top 4 and that lies the problem. We are 15pts from 1st. We can do better and should do better than what we are doing right now. Some fans are comparing our results to that of Liverpool and Spuds saying they are not doing good too. Why are comparing ourselves to them. What about Manc,Chelsea and even sorry ass Manu that just beat us. Their first away win, I want us to do better and we need to stop making excuses for this team, we suck presently simple as that. I hope and wish the boss will be able to work some miracle, because it seems that is exactly what our season will need.
And that’s it no comments for 2 hours??
Jonathan Northcroft (bonehead) reporting in the Sunday Times today describes Van Gaal as a Master Tactician on the basis of yesterday’s win.
With Crystal Palace winning 3-1 against Liverpool, that probably makes Neil Warnock the Messiah of Mesmerising Footballing Methodology ๐ Who knew?
I recall a few here hoping that Brendan Rogers might take over from Arsene (once the craving for the second coming of David Moyes had died down). Poor old Brendan, he’s spent 216M on 25 players at tumbledown Anfield and, let’s be honest, they’re still absolutely putrid.
“But he took them to 2nd in the League last season, BtM and was hailed as a master tactician! And, he’s lost TWO players since then. The bitey one and the perennially injured Sturridge.
Ah, that explains it. He’s still a great manager and it’s the absence of these two players that accounts for the bottom half of the table position. It’s only Arsene Wenger who becomes inadequate and incompetent to lead a team three months after winning the FA Cup and Community Shield – forget the absence of FIVE of the best players in Europe.
You’re having a laugh, you’re having a laughโฆโฆโฆ..and so am I ๐
I noticed the Northcroft rubbish Btm . It was sycophancy to the power of n. Amazing the way he drew all Arsenal’s players into United’s half. To complete a perfect weekend lucky old Tottenham win again their opponents go down to ten men.
Let’s renew ourselves and hope we can get things together on Wednesday. At least Jack and Ches don’t seem to be badly injured
And elsewhere on MOTD2:
What a fine, restrained, gentlemanly commentary by Steve Bruce on the sending off of his player after Vertongen did a poleaxe.
Plaudits too to Fellaini for his mature handling of Wilshere’s madcap headbutt. (Wilshere’s miss cost us the game yesterday. No question).
And what a pleasure to see real skill in a corner kick. Cesc Fabregas, of-course, short corner, guile and 22-carat craft. Remember when he used to do that for us? Happy memories. (Why do we never try a few short ones now instead of slinging high balls into the middle, time after time? Ah, I know, Arsene Wenger has forgotten to tell his team of internationalists to do it ๐ Another black mark and the dunce’s cap for AW).
Small mercies, TTG ๐
Will see you pre-match on Wednesday I hope BtM. A rare midweek jaunt for me…
Gotta smile at those who craft their criticisms in retrospect, after the final score is in. To pick a few at random … ‘Tactically wrong, ‘Naรฏve’ (several of those), ‘It’s down to instructions from the coaches’, ‘We suck’, ‘Lack of tactical know-how’ etc etc etc … and all of them diametrically opposite to how the game was actually played.
In fact AW got the tactics spot on, playing at good speed attacking a novice back-line from all directions looking to put the game away early. But we didn’t. Regardless we created enough gilt-edged chances to win two games we failed to convert any of them. Then a farcical og deflection which could have gone anywhere but, unlike our many attempts on goal, just had to find the net. After that the tactics could only have been to go for it, with the Roo goal just the risk you have to take under such circumstances
It wasn’t the tactics that failed, it was a combination of bad luck, ball not running for us, and poor execution in front of goal by players you would normally expect better from.
Nothing a change of fortune, the return of key players (welcome back OG, just what we’ve been missing) and a win or two to restore confidence won’t overcome.
รskar
Are you Trev in disguise?
BMBD
BMBD
yawn
yawn
BMBD
yawn
a trite load o shite
pluck another pearl
from
somewhere
preferably the funny hole
been there ?
oh
and
howdy oskar
jealous as fuck of yer exploits
ya bawbag
๐
count basie
COUNT BASIE !!!!!!!!
sheeeesh
ya lucky bollix
i like a tune
encountered a cunt
deconstructing captain beefheart
i love captain beefheart
never felt the need to intellectualise
mans a genius
my book
mind you
lumpy recommendation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5oFfy6jzlk
buy yerself a celloey yoke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfEs8W4i9zw
big happys
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnPaOi6F4wc
THE ARSENAL
cheerio
includin watery texas
good bye
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMX6940QnMY
.
bye bye bye bye
THE ARSENAL
sorry -hol
i’ll buy you a jar eventually
night night
moscow
funsters
punsters
over analysisters
toodle oo
THE ARSENAL
SAG @ 43: You asked me a few questions in that post and I should really make an attempt to answer those, but honestly speaking not only I don’t really know the answers but I also am not terribly interested about even framing my football enjoyment/understanding in those terms. IMHO, “do the players even listen to Arsene anymore?” is something that can really be answered by each specific player in question and even that might vary depending on when you ask them. My apologies to disappoint you.
If I may, it is one thing to point out after a match the tactical mistakes by the manager or some players’ poor performance etc. or express disappointments after a poor result, and another thing to attempt to arrive at long-running narratives that do not necessarily have strong basis in reality.
We have stared the season rather poorly, granted, but only 12 games have been played and there is a long way to go. We are not going to win the league this season, but a top 4 or even a top 3 is still well within the reach, and that would still mean continuity/progress. I would love us to win the PL immediately, but given that it is not going to happen this season I don’t see how just demanding that is going to change anything.
Arsene Wenger is a great manager, but he is not a magician. Before the entrance of Chelsea & later ManCity and our curtailed expenses he used to guide Arsenal to either 1st or 2nd positions, and afterwards he guides Arsenal to 3rd or 4th. In these last 10 years of not winning the league only three other teams had won, two of them outspending us by many hundreds of millions of dollars, and another one outspending us as well as having already a great team in place which we were the ones to have had first challenged. No one else won the league, not even such “tactical genius” like Rafa Benitez.
So as far as league is concerned I don’t really get what all the angst is about. We have been tremendously consistent, generally finishing where we should and above (often outperforming more financially freewheeling aspirants to the coveted CL spot) and the sense of regret we have that despite being so limited in resource with a little bit of better injury records etc. we might have actually pulled off one or two implausible league wins. But that regret should be perceived within the context of the realization that what an extraordinary achievement it would have been to win the league in 07-08 or last season.
Should we have had a better cup record in that time? Absolutely. Excluding CL — but even there with the help of a little but of extra quality, and even with a makeshift defense, we almost had pulled off a surprising one — where we have not been in the top 4 teams in Europe since the invincible , in English football a couple of more Cup wins would have probably been much more palatable as a record, but even there it now seems unless we win the league those cups are not going to satisfy some in the fan base.
Do we all want Arsenal to become an European super club? Absolutely! But just wanting, and demanding, and then expressing disproportionate amount of rage when the demands are not met is not going to make that happen. It is not going to be easy, and what’s more it may not actually ever happen. Arsenal was NEVER an European super club, and we are trying to become one. In many ways we have moved forward so much in the last decade and half, but not enough in the actual results business.
Arsene is not going to be here forever, and given that until now he has never really underachieved — it is worth noting that the moment he could hold onto his best players and add a bit of quality again in last season we challenged for the league and won FA cup — but generally overachieved so why not trust the manager until the end of the season, see where we stand and do the evaluations then? If we make progress compared to last season, get one or two more defensive players in, would we not then simply want him to be successful one last time with a team which ONLY HE had assembled? That would be the fair and just thing to do.
If you want cautionary example, look at Inter. Instead of trying to rebuild they are thrashing about trying to recapture the glory days of first half of this century (when they no longer have that much money) and finding any kind of consistency very hard to come by.
Hear hear, Dr F.
Nice to see ya cba, good to have your excellent musical choices back in their rightful place between obsessional football musings. And kind of you to say nice things. The thing about stories is they tend to accumulate with age whether you want them or not, and before you know it you realise most of them happened before the people you tell them to were born. That’s pretty much the case with the jazz legends I was lucky to be around for in the late ’50s early ’60s. I was just in the right place at the right time, thanks to the Austrian paperhanger’s war and the olds finding time between war work to make me.
รskar
Oskar @ 86: “Austrian paperhanger’s war” … ๐ Not to mention the Georgian cobbler’s son.
Thanks. And I like stories of old Jazz giants, so please keep them coming. Have you ever seen Monk perform? Or Dizzy with that ridiculous looking bent trumpet?
I saw both, Dr F, back in early ’60s (Hammersmith Odeon or Festival Hall, I can’t remember which), but not since. That’s when they were in their prime of course. Dizzy’s trumpet wasn’t bent as such, he had them specially made that way.
A friend and I had a rocknroll club at the time (in Leatherhead, not exactly West End) but I would have seen at least as much jazz. I probably spent more time in Ronnie Scotts’s than in my own club, mostly listening to British jazz with Stan Tracey, Tubby Hayes et al. It was all so cheap back then. The cover charge at Ronnie’s was peanuts.
รskar
I may actually have something to thank Herr Hitler for, Dr F. Conversations with my late parents some years ago suggest I might not have been entirely planned, rather the result of careless passion following Nazi bombers demolishing neighbouring houses in our suburb. Bless ’em!
รskar
cba, the man ๐
Dr. F
Thanks for your rather long answer, I know that wasn’t all for me. I am just asking questions that’s all. I want this team to do better, can’t ask for more than that. Have a drink on me. And hoping for a win against Dortmund.
The problem with Arsenal is not lack of players, injury or lack of signings. The problem is just entirely in the locker room. Something is wrong down there. Players seems not to be accountable after any professional mistake because they know they are indispensable. A Wilshere can afford to waste begging chances because he knows that as long as he is fit he’ll always start and Rosicky even if he’s on fire cannot bench him. A Welbeck knows that Campbell and Podolski cannot just start ahead of him even when he’s not scoring. A Ramsey knows that Santi Carzola is just a second choice. The only people that feel threatened in their position is Chambers and Chamberlain….
As long as Wenger keep allowing players to think that they are indispensable our problem will persist. When ever you talk of buying a CB Wenger would tell you that the player must be good enough to cover for Kolscieny and Mertesacker as if they are the best pair in the world, and they player must be available i.e young, free and french…
When are we going to start buying players that are not available. Like paying a tempting sum to price Varane from Madrid or Vothegen from spurs, or Pogba from Juventus etc… even Kloop from Dortmond.
Lonestar,
‘Me’ in disguise – pray tell, I’m confused ?
That was back at #75 …….
@85, Dr F, I wonder at your patience.
Hear, hear to all of that.
The answer to the question “When are we going to start buying players that are not available” is “never”.
We’ve talked a lot on this blog about tactics, and about personnel, but if ever a game demonstrated that nothing is simple, and that none of the answers are straightforward, it was our defeat to Utd.
Let’s talk tactics: we were shambolic for the final 40 minutes. Yet we dominated the first half, creating chance after chance. I have absolutely no idea what caused us to change our shape so dramatically after the first goal, whether it was a signal from the bench or simply a decision taken by individual players on the pitch, but either way it was extraordinarily naive.
I think it’s possible to point a finger in whatever direction you want right now. Yes – the buck stops with the manager. Even if he didn’t tell them to push right up, he had 40 minutes to convey his displeasure and tell them all to drop back.
Equally, let’s look at the individual players out on the pitch. Does anyone seriously think Mertesacker was instructed to play as high as he did for the last 20 minutes? Or let’s look at Arteta – on the face of it, he had an excellent game, he won most of his challenges, used the ball well and dominated midfield. But look again: once we were behind, both our full backs pushed up to play as auxiliary wingers. In those circumstances, what’s a defensive midfielder’s job? To sit in front of the centre backs, stay on his feet and mop up danger. Where was Arteta? Frequently in possession on the edge of the opposition box, frequently ahead of the ball and frequently diving into 50/50s in advanced positions. All places he had no business being.
There has to be a measure of individual accountability here. I’m not singling Per and MA out because they were particularly bad, it’s just that they’re senior pros, who should know enough by now to understand what’s likely to help us pull a goal back vs what’s likely to leave us unduly exposed. Are they making these poor decisions, or having them forced upon them? There isn’t a single person in the stands or on the internet who knows the real answer to that question. My suspicion is that it’s probably a little bit of both.
Likewise Wilshere. Did he have a bad game? Should he be dropped? Well, he missed an absolute sitter. But he also totally ran the midfield while he was on the pitch – he was probably MOTM
Oops – posted early.
Probably MOTM until his withdrawal. Yet he couldn’t produce where he needed to, and his lack of discipline was again laid bare for all to see.
Monreal is another case in point. Often derided as substandard, he is in point of fact our top performing centre back at present, and probably our best defensive performer on the night.
My overwhelming sense on the night was that everyone wanted to be the hero. Everyone wanted to score the equaliser, Gibbs was desperate to redeem himself for the OG, Ramsey is desperate for a goal full stop, and we flooded forward like playground footballers in search of glory. Players need to be responsible enough to recognise that when you’re up against it, you don’t leave your position and go looking to win the game alone. You do your own job twice as well. That’s maturity, and that’s how you win as a unit.
Excuse the babble, still sorting out my thoughts nearly 48 hours later.
Just to add – I agree that the players have too many excuses made for them.
I’m sick of hearing how it takes a couple of games for us to adjust after a poor result, how it gets stuck in their heads. If you want to compete at the top level, there isn’t time for group therapy after every poor showing – what’s gone is gone, you have to suck it up and move on.
Anyone who has played football at any level will have experienced those matches where every single person on your team tries twice as hard as usual, but the collective output is poor. That’s what happens when you stop focusing on the unit, and start focusing on yourselves as individuals – “we lost last week, I need to make sure we win”, “I got sent off, I need to score a goal to make up for it”. Fuck all that – do your job properly, connect with each other and be more than the sum of your parts. It’s a team sport, and invariably the better team wins.
Right now, we are no kind of team. We’re a collection of dysfunctional individual parts, each lost in a swell of uncertainty, fear and wounded pride.
What’s needed is leaders, on and off the field, to remind each and every player that their feelings don’t count for shit, the past doesn’t count for shit. All that matters is that in the next game you get your head down, block out all distractions and do your own job – not the bloke next to you’s job, and certainly not the centre forwards’ job – to the absolute best of your abilities. That’s how football matches are won.
N7 – some very interesting posts from you above @96/97/98 and you have nailed the key errors or mistakes from senior experienced individuals within our team.
Given these areas for improvements are not new mistakes in judgement from seasoned pros, how many times do you put up with, excuse or deny these same problems should they continue to re-ocurr.
I week, 2 weeks, 1 month, two months, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years or even 10 years.
When would you say that as a coach or manager or leader of people enough is enough for these consistnet individual errors.
Or are there others issues at play casuing these experienced pros to continue these mistakes.
Like- they are straight out no not listening to the bosses instructions
@Aussie
On previous evidence, you would consider it the manager’s fault if the team bus crashed on the way back from the stadium. On that basis, I hope you don’t mind too much if I choose to disregard absolutely everything you have to say.
It would be great if we could have a proper discussion in here about what’s wrong with the team without every single post being immediately followed by a “how long are we going to put up with this sort of mismanagement” style rant. Grown up conversation, without brainless propagandizing and tub thumping bollocks.
Likewise, it would be grand if three months of poor performance wasn’t immediately spun out into “ten years”. We have quite clearly not being playing as badly as we are right now for a decade, and your constant assertion that the manager has under-performed for the last ten years is, quite frankly, laughable.
The narrative that we didn’t spend much between 2004 and 2013 because Arsene Wenger somehow doesn’t like opening his wallet has been thoroughly debunked, which can only lead us to conclude that his performance during that period met par at the absolute worst (fourth highest wage spend in the division, 19th or 20th for transfer spend). I really don’t want to go back over that debate yet again, because at this stage anyone still arguing that our parsimony was the manager’s personal preference is clearly impervious to factual evidence.
He’s having a stinker of a season: maybe we can just focus on that, instead of constantly trying to stretch the argument so as to build the ongoing case for the prosecution.
@100 Hallelujah to that. Consistent quality, N7.
N7- I have actually tried to pay respect to your previous 3 posts by suggesting you raise some good points about individual player responsibilities from our senior players and their onfield positioning.
I completely agree it makes no sense for players of this level to be so out of what rhey should know as the right position in most games.
I was simply asking a question in response to your valid points in what i thought were good posts above , why these players would do that;
Are the players no longer listening or are they just playing out of position constantly.
Nothing more nothing less
I am sorry my question was so offensive to you.
@Aussie
We are both grown-ups. We have probably been discussing these issues back and forth for three or four years now. I think we both know precisely what you were getting at.
All I suggest is that you consider the following: it may seem perverse, but you would probably see MORE criticism of Wenger on this board if you didn’t attempt to dragoon anyone issuing such criticism into admitting that the manager is a disaster who should be removed from office.
Don’t worry, you’ve not offended me.
@N7- yes we have had differing thoughts about the team and the manager over the past few years.
You have made it quite clear on many occasions what you think of my posts.
However, on this occasion I thought your posts above regarding individual player responsibilities from some of our most experienced and seasoned players were very accurate.
I didnt think your posts or my response was about the manager at all.
N7…yr recent posts…nail on head etc. The Jekyll & Hyde performance v Manure is a mystery to the manager so no surprise it’s the same for us lesser mortals.
Monreal, not for the first time, was very assured at CB and Arteta was the epitome of calmness and organisation at DM. So what happened? The opposition scored the most fortunate of goals against the run of play…shit happens. We then lose all sense and discipline going gung-ho in order to recover from this sporting injustice. The senior pros we have love our club…there’s an ethos that has built up over the past 100 years which makes The Arsenal very special – the best club they have ever played for (note, not the most successful). In their desperation to rectify this, maybe contributed to them changing into the Mr Hyde personality. Perhaps we need another notable Victorian character to solve the mystery….calling Mr Sherlock Holmes ๐
Drinks on the bar for Faustus@85 – epic post, fella, and N7 @96-8 & 100, up with your best.
Are we in deep doo doo at the moment? – yes
Is this in part a consequence of errors in summer priorities? – yes
Have we been extremely unlucky both with injuries and within games? -yes
Are football matches simply determined by a mathematical formula that the coach simply has to get right? – no
Will we improve as our injured cohorts return? – yes
Can this squad finish in the top four despite our worst start in over thirty years? – yes
Can this squad be turned into a competitive outfit with just a couple of key signings? – yes
Is that likely to happen over the next two windows? – yes
Will bringing in a new coach with new ideas and the need to create his own back-room team and playing squad hasten the process of making us competitive? perhaps but at least as likely, perhaps not
Has Arsene seen off most of the paper tigers that have been nominated as a better alternative coach for Arsenal? yes
Should we keep a stiff upper lip, remain solid and supportive and ride out this rough patch – I think we should.
Aussie,
Just reading your exchanges with N7.
Allow me to post two quotes from you from @99 and @104 –
“When would you say that as a coach or manager or leader of people enough is enough for these consistnet individual errors.”
“I didnt think your posts or my response was about the manager at all.”
I don’t think you’re going to get away with that, mate.
Top work, by the way, N7.
Bath – no further questions, your honour. ๐
Trev, my comment at #75 was meant for Oskar at #74. Such a measured post, I thought he could’ve been you. ๐
BMBD (especially for the mesmeric jester)
Blimey, I’m honoured, Lonestar.
Just for Uply –
Sherlock Holmes arrives in the Shenley changing room through a yellow door on the right hand side.
Watson is already waiting for him –
“Holmes, that is not the way most people come into the room. Pray tell, why did you choose that door ?”
Holmes: “Well, it’s a lemon entry, my dear Watson.”
*Oi, don’t throw that coat ! *
I had stayed away from all and sundry for the last 2 days and the only place i came to read was here today. yes it was on expected lines, most of the reactions all though for a young guy like me, it amazes me the sense of control all of you have in terms of the choice of words. Truly hats off.
I do not want to get into the Wenger debate for i adore the man. From a boy to a man now, i have only seen my team with him being there, hence my reaction will always have a soft corner for him.
Yet its plain obvious, we cannot win big games, we do not know how to and it is tearing everyone, the players and the fans. I read sometime back about the team- they are all fine players and great triers, extremely together but basically they are weak, they do not have the steel and that is what the team is in a nut shell.
Wenger sees these set of players and will feel they give it all but then at times thats not enough. We need those difference makers, the ones who refuse to lose, the leader we sorely lack.
Arsenal are not progressing, anyone here will say that is the least we expect. We just want to see our team be better than what they were. New personnel, tactics etc are all supposed to do that change but honestly i havent seen any progress. We play lovely football, yes if jack had scored, the game may have been won by a canter but then this IF never truly occurs.
It is sad to hear that we had banners and notes of Wenger out in the stadium. He has always said that the day the fans lose belief in him, he will leave. Get a sense it may happen sooner than later.
Sad end to an absolute legend.
Arsene leaving already? First time i heard of it!
Hope he’s still here when we win the CL and league.
๐
Up The Arse!
BB, speaking of CL, does anyone know when the deadline was to register our players. Seems Giroud won’t be allowed. Of course, he returned sooner than expected, so maybe that is why. ๐
@ABB
Wow! What an unfortunate turn of events. Not too sure when the dateline for CL registration is, but I guess it never rains around here it just keeps on pouring!
Nevertheless am looking forward to the match, hope Welbeck is up for it and maybe we’ll see the return of Sanogo too.
May not be a good time but Alexis should be rested for a half at least, he’s beginning to show signs of wear..!
Hey BB, thanks. Agree about Alexis. Thought he looked a bit ragged against Manu. Who could blame him, though. Danny, Poldi must step up (both uber capable) ๐ Sanogo, I wish he gets a chance too. He gives us a height advantage for all our lovely corners ๐
Silver Lining Alert ๐
According to Arseblog, Giroud will be available, if we make it to the knock out stage. Simples! ๐
“The harder I work on cutting out my mistakes the less of them I make. Strangely enough, I seem to get luckier too”!
Prepare Sam.
@Scgooner
I know you get upset when I quote your own words back to you, but sometimes holding up a mirror is the most direct route to truth.
“Perhaps they see themselves not only as the true real fans but also as some kind of superior Arsenal intelligentsia”
Two sentences earlier….
“We are true fans you and me and we have the patience and diplomacy to reach out to others in our huge global fellowship”
Yours, obnoxiously, and closed-mindedly
N7
P.S – Who did you want to win on Saturday?
@ 117 ABB
Breath of fresh air is always welcomed ABB, your optimism is refreshing ..it was for a while, a tad gloomy and doomy.
One would think we’re supporting Liverpool!
Bring on Dortmund!
๐
Trev 111…heh. Holmes’ arch nemesis of course the evil Jose Morono ๐
Chilly here this evening so my coat is still on !
Oh BB, your optimism is contagious, I so love it when you are here! Like you, I’m so looking forward to this match!!!
Lads and Lasses,
Come forth with your battle plans, formations, etc. Theo is a doubt, but we have 11 slots to fill, so give it your best shot ๐
Uply, Mama is here. So you can take off your coat ๐
Now where is GSD?! He’s always brimming with hope. xx
And Lurky must be very busy, sigh. Because we need him as well right now.
Come to think of it, I’m needing a MULTIPLE HOLICS FIX!!!
Ok, I’ll go first!
Since Woj is still out with hip injury, I nominate Emi Martinez in goal! ๐
Sorry I took the easy one holics, but 10 more slots to fill ๐
I would play Alexis Sanchez in the other 10 positions.
Haha@125
Cynic, you simply must go on twitter! ๐
Abb….how about some left field thinking..3 5 2
Emiliano
Chambers Per Monreal
Hector Ramsey Mikel The Ox Gibbs
Alexis Danny
Right, coats back on, I’m out for a while ( genuine ).
Laters.
Uply @127 Hector there? Wow, interesting. Good selection, except I’d choose Tomas over Aaron (he could be useful as 2nd half sub!).
Agree with you and others who feel Monreal has been playing well!
Good call Uply
And number 1 is Perry Groves
Must make room for him on the bench, Esso โฅ
Meanwhile, HUGE Goal Keeping mistake โบ Villa v Southhampton!
And number 2 is Perry Groves.
๐ Trev! Delighted you’re going to the match, chap. Going to be historic!
Not a bad team selection, Uply.
At least that way we’d all know why Gibbs is always on the edge of the opposition box.
I just hope the Mertesacker at right wing experiment is over.
Dortmund threw away a 2-0 lead against Paderborn at the weekend in the Bundesliga so it could be an interesting game.
I think we should start at 10 – 10 and work backwards. ๐
Hey, abb.
Do you mean historic, or hysterical. ๐
Two mean defences giving absolutely nothing away – not at The Emirates though. ๐
Scgooner,
A genuine question, honestly meant without sarcasm –
Do you actually read what other people write ?
If you do, I am at a loss as to how you can say “examining the role of the manager in any way is not allowed”.
People in this bar have been highly critical of the summer transfer activity, they have questioned and criticised tactics, they have questioned the role of Steve Bould and exactly what he might or might not be allowed to do defensively, and some have said that it is time for the manager to go.
None of those comments has been deleted – otherwise I couldn’t be aware of them. It therefore follows that criticism of almost everything the manager does is, in fact, allowed.
Other people feel that it might be time for a new manager but mid-season is not the best time to do it. Yet more feel it is not time to change manager at all. That is also their prerogative.
What aggravates some people is when failings are hugely exaggerated – 3 months of disappointment became 10 years of failure in this very bar earlier today – or presented as a list of 10 examples of failure where, on closer inspection, the list is actually 2 items repeated 5 times each!
I know many of the contributors to this blog personally and I have yet to meet one with airs and graces or an overblown opinion of himself.
If you heard some of the conversations you would be surprised at how open and critical they can be. But here’s the thing – while we might walk away from the ground fuming at an inept performance, when you hear Hansen or Shearer slating it, the manager, the players and Uncle Tom Cobbley, your protective reflex kicks in.
This manager has done an unbelievable job for our club for almost two decades. An absolutely unbelievable job with massively restricted resources.
My own opinion is that I don’t like to see him being ridiculed and abused by people who almost rejoice in every defeat as it affords them another chance to spout their agenda.
It is boring and unnecessary – we are all aware of our shortcomings.
Some of us just prefer not to jump to the easiest conclusion.
Trev for Mayor.
Or mare. ๐
Trev knows.
Zico in de house! Good to see you mate! ๐
Now Trevor, much of history is based on hysteria! Bases covered ๐
Trev,
Thanks for that. Well done, see when you write stuff like that it makes good sense and I really appreciate it. I just don’t understand why some folks in here gets pissed off, when someone says something negative about the boss. We all respect him, I do, but some fans need to take a chill pill and not get all crazy anytime something negative is said about the boss. This is my VIEW, and mine alone.
Thank you, kind people. ๐
Trev 136. Spot on…that’s how it is.
Esso 130. Perry Groves – think we could do with a bit of Vic Groves in our midfield at the moment ๐
@scgooner
Good old Google.
“Finally, I think what all of us should want is 4th and an exit from the FA Cup next weekend, that’s the recipe for change”.
A considered contribution indeed.
Wasn’t too hard to find, either.
I just searched for “self righteous geezer with fuzzy memory who hopes his own team lose big cup games” and there you were.
Off to bed now – have a good evening all.
COYG
Trev
Some great stuff here tonight. Rational defence when I know you are as passionate about the team winning as the critics of the manager who have lost patience with AW and also lost patience with quite a few of us in here I suspect.
One of the troubles with life today and certainly with football is that people forget the nature of the game. There can be very few winners and some clubs like our vastly inferior neighbours have trailed in our wake for almost twenty years as we have pushed past them and moved onto another level. The reason is Wenger. He is also the reason the LWCs have had ten or however many managers they have had. They would love the consistent achievement that Wenger has brought to the club. Our supporters though want more which is understandable as sport is about getting as far as you possibly can . And they are no longer excited by Champions League qualification or Cup wins. They want the big prizes but sadly they are so hard to win nowadays in these times where money plays such an important part. Perhaps the reason they get frustrated is because we have built a financial infrastructure that they feel enables us to compete. And pray tell who built that?! The reason was because we afforded a fine manager time to build a stable club and it has made us very successful but nowhere near as successful as at the zenith of his reign- but then the only real rivals were United. Now we have two of the most extravagantly financed clubs in the world competing against us. So our lack of adventure and ridiculous degree of patience with Wenger is because he has proved such a sure bet – and a man who if he chose to leave us would be a candidate for any top club or national job in the world.
Now he may be past his sell- by date although I would venture to suggest we have no real proof of that and we may need to make a change but last May on the back of a Cup victory, another CL campaign and a healthy profit it would have represented a massive and extremely controversial gamble if we had gone for another manager. It would have been shabby treatment of a legend whose loyalty to this club has been massive in the.face of huge temptation and if the new Messiah had fallen flat on his face like Spurs managers regularly do I can just hear the wise in hindsight Johnnys calling out the Board for a stupid decision. So when ScGooner you can’t see the rationale behind a ‘ crazy contract’ ( which would have been nowhere near as crazy as the one which Monaco or PSG or several other teams would have offered him) maybe I have provided some context for the decision.
@trev107 and SC.
Trev, thanks for quoting me correctly and as others have suggested, in a respectful manner.
I did say in response to N7, โWhen would you say that as a coach or manager or leader of people enough is enough for these consistent individual errors.โ
In the context of N7’s posts, how is that sentence/question in any way a sledge or disrespect to the manager.
these are not new mistakes/errors/misjudgements etc….
they are consistently repeated mistakes by either the players or the bosses direct instructions.
my simple question to N7 which remains is, which one is it then..
if the bosses instructions are indeed being ignored, when does he do something about it. how long should he accept the players not executing his plans ?
or
If these same schoolboy errors are the result of the bosses direct instructions, then when does the club do something about it.
these are not trick questions or complicated and yes they are simplistic, but when did executing the simple or basic football skills become so wrong:
we are repeating the same errors over and over again and have done now for a number of years.
and it has not just been for 3 months, it has been years.
(I will also accept that mentioning 10 years was an exaggeration, but no more exaggeration that these repeated errors are only a few months old)
These questions are not complicated in any way, except for those who simply refuse to acknowledge, something needs to change in our philosophy, whatever that maybe:
Either the players have to change or the manager should change or the club should at least signal some form of change going forward.
SC: I agree with your suggestion and advice earlier to not bother responding to rude and abusive posters on here given the repeated requests and forum rules of the bar of differing opinions.
The suggestion that any arsenal fan who bothers on here looks forward to arsenal losing, is simply a childish response based on an inability to respond in a civilised respectful manner.
Right, two posts gone because of the personal abuse contained therein. All viewpoints are welcome here. Arsenal on Arsenal is not. Shame sc because I think you could be making your point without resorting to the lowest common denomimator. You are not like those who come here only to spout bile.
Respectful debate is all I ask. Thank you.
No, no, no, Trev (#110) it is MY privilege to be so honoured!
รskar
No mention of OG for the Dortmund game? His return at the weekend (including a real CF’s goal) was surely the best thing to come out of the game. He can’t be entirely match fit, but I’d still start him with a view to taking the lead early and holding on, rather than the falling behind and panicking mode we’re really not good at.
I’d also like to see TR7 and Poldi bringing some senior calm to proceedings but accept I’m unlikely to see either at all.
One bit of good news (for us anyway) Reus is injured again and won’t play. As the player I’ve most wanted to see at the Ems for several years now Reus is beginning to look rather too injury prone of late, so maybe I’ll have to find a new favourite…
รskar
Sadly Oskar, because Wenger rightly assumed Giroud would be out till Xmas, he wasn’t included in our necessarily leaner Champions Lge squad for the group stage (thankfully, we can name another one for the knockout stages in the new year)…
Thus, probably worth starting Welbeck on Wed with a view to resting him on Sat v WBA. I’d rest Sanchez also, and flank Welbeck with Podolski and the Ox. Perhaps have Ramsey and Rosicky ahead of Arteta in the midfield, and the usual back 4 and keeper (if all fit)….Ironically, this game is biggest for simply trying to win back a bit of morale and momentum, as I calculate we’ll probably still get out of the group even in the unlikely event of us losing our final 2 games, because it would be predicated on Anderlecht winning in Dortmund. Still, let’s not rely on such a scenario, and I’m reasonably confident we’ll get at least the point we need on Wed, and then we can attack WBA on Sat with a new-look Alexis, Giroud and Walcott front 3 perhaps?!
Oskar,
Sit down first, please, then nice deep breath, exhale, three shoulder rotations – and r-e-l-a-x.
Ok, so here it is – Giroud is not available.
No, really, he’s not !
Is he injured ? I hear you screaming from 12,000 miles away …..
Nope ! He’s ineligible !
Never imagining in a million years that he would actually be back EARLY from injury, the word is that he was not registered for the group phase.
Ok, now back to the top, sit down, deep breath…. and repeat ……. ๐
Oh well, Gregoire’s ruined that then ! ๐
%^&*($%^&!!!!!
รskar
Sorry Trev, premature proclamation is a frequent fault of mine!
Still (rationalising instantly), probably not needed anyway. Hopefully. Then again…
รskar
Must say I thought he would have been registered for the qualifier and it never occurred to me that would have changed.
Unless some foul beast has started a nasty rumour …….
But I’d still prefer to see Poldi flanked by Ox and Danny, Gregoire. Danny is far more like to track back and support Gibbs.
รskar
He won’t have to track back very far to get behind Gibbs ! ๐
Oskar @ 148,
Reus is injury prone you say? Sounds like a usual suspect – sign him up now.
UTA.
Until this latest injury Reus has had only two injuries that took him out for more than two weeks. In all he had been out for 178 days since the 2011/12 season but has missed only 25 games. Over the same period, Theo has been out for 408 days and missed 65 games.
In October 2013 Reus suffered intraarticular ligament crack initiation in his ankle joint. All his injuries since have been ankle related. Perhaps the good doctor Trev can enlighten us on the prognosis for this particular injury.
Usmanov is out in the press with the following:
On Arsene: “We have a Russian proverb which goes: โEven an old lady can have a roof falling on her.”
โEverybody makes mistakes. He can make mistakes and I know as you age it is more difficult, more challenging to accept oneโs mistakes. Does [Wenger] have money or not? There is officially money in the club.
โ…no genius can retain the same level of genius if they do not acknowledge mistakes. Itโs only when you admit your mistakes that you can get rid of them.”
On the club: โMy opinion โ and I tell it openly โ we need to strengthen every position to play on the level of such teams in [the] UK as Chelsea and Manchester City, in Europe like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Paris Saint-Germain and other clubs.โ
We also have proverb, “Big fat united supporting cunt should shut cakehole.”
Trev, I loved your: “Some of us just prefer not to jump to the easiest conclusion.”
“we need to strengthen every position to play on the level of such teams…” – Usmanov (#161)
Okay, so stump up, say, ยฃ20m for each position = ยฃ220m, and let’s go for it!
ะะตะฝัะณะธ where your ะ ะพั is, as the saying goes in English.
รskar
NBN @160,
It all depends on the extent and severity of the original injury and treatment (surgery or not). Ankle fractures with concomitant (i.e. associated) ligamentous damage, which is what you are alluding to, are very well treated if for normal daily functioning but in high-impact dynamic activities such as in professional football, the degree of residual soft-tissue scarification, especially the way that Reus plays and kicks a football, will put excessively large strain forces within an already less mobile joint, resulting in the propensity for other secondary injuries within the said joint.
Esso @162,
I’m pretty sure that someone who owns 30% shares of a company has a right to express an opinion wrt the said company’s direction, whether he happens to be a genuine supporter or not.
NBN @160,
However the injury this time, in led to believe, is to the right ankle not the same left as before, so if well managed, the prognosis should be good. The Germans are pretty good with bones and joints! I’d still sign him on a pre-contract in January and put him through a tough physical of both ankles in the summer.
Thoughts are with Phil Hughes and his family. Puts our so called crisis into perspective.
Oh and bang on esso, fuck the fat cunt! UTA
Well said down under.
A truly sad day for aussie cricket and thoughts are with phil hughes and his family for a strong recovery.
Well done N7. As I always insisted, my post (6 months ago) was in the context of what combination of Prem and FA Cup outcome might actually work out best for the club. As you demonstrate with a selective partial quote I favoured 4th and not winning the FA Cup to 5th, winning that particular competition and not being able to attract big signings due to CL football. Others – and I am sure you can spend a few more hours googling – said it would be better to win the silverware and come 5th, the “monkey off the back” argument which is looking increasingly irrelevant now. it’s simple statistical inevitability that if you wait ten years a top 10 (or so) side will eventually win one of the FA Cup or League Cup. But apparently I wanted Arsenal to lose to Man U last weekend. COYG.
There is shock and horror pervading every corner of The Quackery this morning.
Dapper DanC, if I’m not very much mistaken, has suggested putting a prospective signing through a – and yes, I do quote – “tough physical”.
You really just don’t get it do you, sir ?!
Preposterous, outrageous, ridiculous …………. !!!
* continues blustering while searching high and low for the
“Tough Physical” instruction manual *
Thanks for the above, Dapper Dan. I know from personal experience that ankle injuries can be tricky. I could never kick a ball with as much power (or the lack thereof) after I did my ankle ligaments as I could before.
NBN –
I refer you to the answer my honourable colleague, DanC, gave some moments ago on the subject of Reus’ ankle, and thank him for it.
If his somewhat technical explanation has left you in any doubt, maybe I could paraphrase it for you thus –
As a pedestrian, Reus has not got too much to worry about.
As a professional footballer, he will be about as much use as a bicycle is to a fish, but slightly more useful than a one legged man in an arse kicking competition.
Glad to be of help.
And, your are correct that this latest injury is to Reus’s right ankle, while the previous one was to his left one.
Meanwhile, Klopp sounds as if he has got the patter down to be an Arsenal manager. This is him after Dortmund’s draw at Paderborn:
This was again not a good day for us. We have to work. Quality is what you make of the existing potential. We were good in some moments, in some others a bit less, and so we left them alive.
Reus en route to tough medical:
http://www.gutsofaburglar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/a_fish_needs_a_bicycle.jpg
Heh @ Dr T & NBN ๐
So that’s why he’s such a slippery customer in the dribble with a flipper-like free-kick technique! Impressive morphological features! Some interesting anatomical variants there too but can’t really see both ankles clearly?!?! A plain AP and Lateral Radiograph of both should suffice as part of the tough physical but on second thoughts, I’d prefer some MR Imaging! Oh I say, wouldn’t that just be too tough for an Arsenal-man to be?! Actually no, let them all have a tough physical pre-contract and pre-season especially that Diaby fella. Contract renewal? Not before the tough physical matey! ๐
…Koscielny and Welbeck are in the squad, but Wilshere, Szczezny and Walcott are out… (and Giroud too!)
One thing I don’t understand Jack needs to see a specialist next week?
I assume the swelling needs to go down a bit, it was a career threatening tackle!
But why next week! I thought we already has specialists in-house ?
Apparently, football is not mathematics.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30186520
But wouldn’t it take a mathematician to know that? Sheikh Mansour must have several of those on staff.
I am not sure whether to believe or not but reports indicate jack maybe out for 10 weeks?????????????????????//, please no please it cannot be like this, everyone seems to be conspiring against us, even the Gods.
Giroud not being registered means we again play Welbeck and we can in no way rest Alexis, those 2 are exhausted and i mean totally.
This is a must win and i know we say the same for most games, but then if we win tomorrow night, qualification is guaranteed and that should put some solace and sanity to the Arsenal world.
Can we play Chambers and Monreal tomorrow as CB, Per has been shocking the whole season and we need to drop him. Bellerin at RB is a risk but then we do not have much of a choice do we. I think the player we have missed the most has to be Debuchy, man that guy had transited to the team like duck to water.
Usmanov always opens his mouth when least needed so i wouldnt care for him theatrics. For us to be competitive in the real world, we definitely need a big change, not just personnel but attitude. That i wont lose at any cost is missing in this team. Terrific camaraderie, great triers but no leaders, opps not you Alexis, you are the eternal hope.
Good stuff from the Quackery today. ๐
*Imagines John Cleese pulling on scrubs.*
AW’s response to Jaba’s whining,
โWe have values at this club, the first one is when we go through a difficult period we show solidarity. The second one is when we have something to say, you say it face to face and not in the newspaper.โ
โWhen you are from this club you are from this club. You are in or out, you cannot be both. It is not unhelpful. I donโt give it a big importance. What is important is how close we are inside the club and how much we can respond to people who question our quality.โ
You have to give the fella a lot of respect for his sang froid and ability to produce a killer soundbite. That’s up there with the caviar and the loveliest wife quotes.
Hmmm… I smell cod, or is it rattus rattus?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/major-fire-at-last-remaining-business-on-site-of-spurs-planned-new-stadium-9881105.html
Hopefully the Old Bill are on the case already. How far up does it go? Is this Watergate Mark II? Did the President call the hit? Is there a Deep Throat at the Shithole?
Cynic.
1) Where there is smoke there is fire.
2) Prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.
A building on fire in N17, under suspicious circumstances?
Must be a Tuesday.
@Cynic
Teabag (remember him) knows them thru biz and says they are a real bunch of cunts. No intention of staying merely trying their hardest, which they are entitled to do, to jack up the compulsory purchase price. Cant see fire making much difference to LWC’s still having to purchase the land.
From what Teabag said would n’t be surprised if it was self inflicted for insurance purposes.
Surely not, dodgy characters in Tottenham ?
Who’da ……
bath @182: Arsene doesn’t take shit and doesn’t suffer fools gladly. And he always defends his team and the club in a whole with a polite but such fierce devotion that the players should really feel privileged to play under him. Some say they are pampered, but I think if you have a modicum of self-respect as a player you would not want to let this boss down.
@190: “…club as a whole…”
@184,
Utterly priceless! The LWCs really do know how to forever stoop to the lowest nether regions of human morality and ideological filth!
Something highly punitive and restrictive must happen from this apparently criminal act by some scum fan or worse!
Esso – I did think it might be a bit dodgy from both sides of the CP order but dismissed my evil thoughts as basic anti-Semitism ๐
Which is not saying anyone is being anti-Semitic of course, just my weak sense of humour that could be taken the wrong way.
In other news, Man City are doing their best to look like massive cunts (it’s not all that difficult to be fair) and I’m doing my best to take this to the 199th drink for a tap-in…
Money quote from Cynic’s link @184:
Just two months ago a spokesman for Archway Sheet Metals said the company has been receiving threats and abusive calls from โanimalisticโ Spurs fans.
Is there any other sort?
Damn you, html. Last sentence in previous shouldn’t have been in italics.
Joe Hart looks like a ginger Mickey Quinn with that ridiculous ‘tache.
Or do I mean blonde?
Set upโฆ.
I’m treating it as “suspicious”.
Woo hoo! On fire!
Quite the goal there NBN. ๐
It is hard not to like any story that contains “Tottenham Hotspur” and “gutted” and “dispute” and “suspicious” and “police” and “fire” all in the lead sentence. ๐
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-30195756
Preview time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>