Confident Ivan Strays Into Membership Minefield
May 11th, 2010 by 'holic
If you have yet to check out the free videos of the Ivan Gazidis Q&A session with the Arsenal Supporters Trust (on Arsenal.com) can I advise you to set aside a couple of hours. It should be worthwhile though if you are prepared to evaluate and interpret what is being said.
The CEO is clearly a comfortable communicator, and I came away from watching his performance with the impression that he had given a little bit of encouragement to a wide range of Arsenal supporters with widely differing views.
For example, I was pleased to hear him virtually confirm in the first of the three films that the move to the Grove had an effect on the amount of money available to Arsene Wenger, because of the structuring of financing the building of the stadium and the associated property ventures.
Later though he was careful to suggest that these matters were never black and white, that money was available to Arsene when required, and that manager and board had worked in tandem on matters relating to the running of the club. So those who would have you believe that Arsene is solely responsible for a perceived lack of investment in the squad will not have been alienated.
He also confirmed that there was money available to spend this summer as a result of the property debts being wiped out, but regular ‘holic readers will have been expecting that anyway!
Overall, one could not help but be impressed by the man, his refusal to talk about individuals when questioners mischievously tried to elicit comment on players or the management team, and his ability to keep people interested and entertained without saying a great deal that was new.
There was one little revelation that raised a few hackles for me though. A discussion about empty seats at the Emirates brought about a commendable response about improving the Ticket Exchange system, so that tickets can be released by those unable to use them later and more efficiently than is currently the case.
The response then turned to a proposed review of the existing membership system, and that is when I, a humble silver member, saw my future at the Grove put at very real threat. Basically he suggested that the club would be looking at the situation where silver members currently not attending all games might not get preferential treatment to newer potential supporters who had not yet progressed to that level of membership.
Now I am writing to him separately about why that is a very worrying development for me personally. I’m aware you won’t be interested in my selfish reasons specifically. Suffice it to say I am already dependent upon friends with sufficient credits providing me with away match tickets when they are not able to go.
Now my expensive home match excursions are under threat, at a time when the numbers of season tickets being offered for hire by their owners is increasing rapidly, and club level packages are not being sold at the anticipated volumes or values. If I could afford to be a season ticket holder once more, I would be. The price of them, allied to the cost of travel from the West Country, makes that an unfeasible option, although they are freely available for hire on a season by season basis from holders who cannot afford to fund them.
Be very careful, Arsenal, not to anger those who have stuck with you through thick and thin, and who have earned a degree of priority as a result. I’m sure common sense will prevail, but be aware that you are in danger of alienating a couple of generations of fans who will not come back once you have thrown years of unquestioning support and financial commitment back in their faces.
The bond scheme drove a number of good supporters away from this club. Those who remained loyal did not expect to be put in a similar situation in a stadium with sixty thousand seats. I feel for those who wait for years to advance from red membership, but those who have already made that particular journey will not take kindly to being penalised again. Be very careful, Ivan.
99 Responses to “Confident Ivan Strays Into Membership Minefield”
Nonsense, you’ll be back Holic. Arsenal runs in your blood.
But yea, I can see where you’re coming from. I would be pissed off totally too!
I lost my season ticket 5 years back as I went bankrupt.
I came back and could only get a red membership; I’ve been to every home game the past 2 years and a handful the season before.
I’ve been told I have to wait about 6 more years for a silver membership.
I think I deserve that silver more than some members who hog silver memberships only to use them at certain times.
Holic or someone can you please distiguish between the different levels of membership to make it more clear for some of us who are not familiar and possibily how one benefits from each membership?
or send a link which might do the trick?
You mean the silver members who cannot attend every game who therefore release those tickets for people like you who have made it to every game, Franny?
With all due respect your post validates my argument. How can it help Red members if all of the silvers take their tickets for every game?
Sorry Chicago,
In brief the platinum and gold members are season-ticket holders. Silver members are entitled to apply for home tickets on a match by match basis eight weeks in advance. Red members are effectively the waiting list for silver membership, but they do have 5000 tickets kept for them at each game.
I understand the frustration for new supporters. It is an emotive issue, and I have acknowledged as such by owning up to a selfish stance on this and forwarding a fuller explanation to Ivan directly.
I don’t think there is too much wrong with the membership structure the way it is personally. Loyalty is rewarded and so it should be. There is ample opportunity to see the team play if you are a newer supporter even without red membership. Supporters clubs and Carling cup matches are avenues. It’s really not that difficult to start getting tickets for smaller matches and it is only right in my opinion that those who’ve supported the club through thick and thin are first in the queue for those bigger matches. I’m thankful for that system, I’m a red member and have been for 6 years so hoping that turns to silver soon and I think that would be a fair reward for my loyalty in terms of matches attended and membership paid. It’s a hell of a lot better than Fulham’s distribution for the Europa League final in which 10k tickets have gone on a first come first served basis. Woeful decision that, so I echo my good friend’s appraisal and say “Ivan look after you’re loyal fan base, your predecessors have made errors in that part errors we cannot afford to repeat!” Was hoping someone might have mentioned Arsenal TV. Surely that’s an area we need to resolve and do with some innovation and class.
In response to Franny’s comment I think it’s wrong that previous commitment is not considered, it’s not right to ‘go back to square one’. Perhaps your level of membership could be protected for two seasons to account for mitigating circumstances.
I have some sympathy with that too Corny. It would be interesting to know if those getting new gold memberships are still permitted to retain existing silver memberships, as has happened in the past. This is a much more unfair situation, effectively guaranteeing selected individuals two tickets for each game. That IS wrong.
As a Red member (my own fault for not following up from the 1970’s), I find the ticket situation frustrating.
I wanted to get tickets for the Fulham game, but it wasn’t possible through the official channels. But I read here (& other sites) that there were a number of empty seats. I’m not asking for Freebies, just a chance to get a seat if someone else can’t use their own.
I understand that, Fin. It is the Ticket Exchange improvement that is needed to address that. Trust me, it is not silver members who are leaving those seats vacant.
Holic quickly spotted more than a few empties at Barcelona, at home to Barcelona! Hmm
Sponsor seats perhaps…
Yes, that block in the East Upper was definitely UEFA tickets. That was disgusting…
I would agree with you there ‘holic, the Ticket Exchange doesn’t work well.
Cheers Holic. I had no idea the ticket allocation and memberships were structured like this. I had better sign up quickly before the glory seekers start supporting Arsenal after we begin our European dominance in a couple of years! Not sure but do other major clubs in football follow the same structure for their tickets?
I think I understand both sides of the debate. I was a silver member at highbury and was on the season ticket waiting list for 10 years before taking my seat at the grove. In the last 5 seasons at highbury i only missed out on tickets for 1 match so i understand the frustrations of those above.
I agree that current members should not suffer as a result of the current plight of others. And we definitely need a way to stop the empty seats. The answer seems quite simple to me. Create more silver members. Those red members who attend the vast majority of home games deserve their rewards, but not at the expense of others. For prestige games a similar system that is used for away tickets re credits could be employed. That would hopefully cater for the vast majority without prejudicing current, loyal fans.
One other point, the club may want to complete a full audit of members. I know of several members who were in the same boat as me. We became season ticket holders at the grove but many still kept their silver memberships. A stringent audit may well solve everyones problem.
I think most of the big clubs have a variation on the theme, Chicago. I also accept it is not great for bringing new supporters in. Arsenal do it quite well by promoting Junior Gunners to silver membership when they ‘come of age’, but that makes the red queue for adults even longer.
Actually, if you are prepared to hunt around the various forums you will probably get tickets for most games, but I am arguing a point of principle here (as I have admitted, from a very selfish standpoint).
im a red member who lives 15mins from the ground, but only went to one game last year (v Hull)..because i’m always bloody skint (i would quite happily go without food for a month but the misses needs feeding :() !
but i think if the club reforms the ticket exchange or maybe even gives some kind of bonus to silver members who release there tickets onto the exchange inorder to encourage use. then all the problems will go etc etc..
oh and since its the close season..is this a lock in??
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OK tommo,
honesty bar, pay for what you drink 😉
i have been a silver member for 3 years now after being a member for the previous 10 years.my job is mainly weekends so a season ticket has never been an option. in those 13 years i have had 4 children which means i have to work more weekends anyway. to lose the benefits of silver membership would almost certainly cut me off from going to home games altogether. i for one hope things dont change.
Holic; there are 1,500 tickets for red members at every home PL game, these are not to the expense of silver members. I have to sit at my PC a month before a match and pull my hair out to get a ticket which I have been lucky enough to do except for on 3 occasions. FA Cup semi and Manure CL last year and Barca CL this year.
I know a guy who has 4 silver memberships and never uses any of them. He keeps them “just in case” a big match comes on.
Oh and I’ve only been able to get a lower tier seat twice. Against Blackburn at home and Wigan at home because these Silver members didn’t bother turning up to those “big” games.
err… May be completely off topic.. But Nasri is not in the French squad.. How is that possible now!!
Yea funny enough I have a teacher in my high school who went to the grove this year against Sunderland right behind the goal, flights ticket, hotel, all for around 400 pounds. seems as if his mate at a travel agency knows a guy who sells his season tickets every match around there. so I’ll probably go that route. for sure will let the fellow drinkers know when I’m going over to possibly meet up!
@ Pab– Unreal isn’t it. Domenech is a complete fool. Bastards shouldn’t be in the WC in the first place though! But how he would think alot of players playing I French league are better than Nasri is baffling at best.
flight tickets , and match tickets*
pab, maybe Domenech saw Nasri’s performance post Sp*rs
[…] run. There were areas of the club which needed vast improvement, from the stadium to the ticketing (heed the Holic’s words on this, Ivan), but most of all we needed people in the right places to ensure the club continues to grow […]
Franny, every silver member wouldn’t be able to take a ticket – there aren’t that many seats in the stadium. If every silver member tried to get a ticket for every game (as you would) most would be left disappointed – so its not about promoting all fans who go to every match so silver since it couldn’t work.
the silvers have done their time, they deserve their status. To have it snatched away and to go back to square one, I agree with holic, Arsenal would lose a lot of loyal old fans.
Maybe they could introduce a priority booking period, similar to away credits, whereby fans that have been to x number of home games can book first, followed by fans who have attended x number etc.
Maybe then the lowest Silver and the highest Red member would be of equal standing, ie they can book at the same time.
Sajit – you are absolutely right, whilst Domenech is a twat of the highest order, Nasri on the other hand, simply hasn’t done enough for me to earn a place. I mean it’s a no brainer – you are young, it’s a WC year, you should be putting an extra shift in – right?
Exceptionally, I have to disagree with you to some extent, ‘holic.
I don’t meant to alienate the silver members who can’t go to many games for a reason or another .
But then do they qualify as having stuck through thick and thin if that’s just spending 30quid a season for the possibility of an easy ticket should glory days come back?
I know it’s not always or possibly even often the game, but it’s fair to start a reflexion on that.
Plus there’s a fair few who kept silver membership when getting access to a ST, something that can be viewed in different ways, especially as when they envisaged this not being possible, I believe the club agreed that should a previous silver/red access ST, they would be able to rejoin membership at level they were/Silver waiting list level if they relinquished their ST.
Sure there’s a danger of even more of the ‘glory hunters’ attending some games or the casual fan to get too easy access.
But maybe some kind of bonus for red members who attend many games would be welcome, for me certainly 😉
Whether it’s by adding another coloured scheme or extending the number of silvers, I don’t know.
I’ll have a Guinness with you though!
In a list of 30, and given some of the players in there, Nasri fully deserved a spot.
But nevermind, at least he can rest and hopefully won’t suffer broken leg in pre-season.
I don’t think we fundamentally disagree on the membership issue, Ollie. The problems, as everybody knows, and as you have alluded to, are caused by those who have multiple memberships and use their ‘spares’ for the big games.
Now I accept it is probably one degree short of impossible to do something about that issue without unfairly penalising those who are restricted to a less than full attendance by reason of cost, distance, or being required to work on some matchdays.
On the basic principle being argued by Franny though I would still argue that thoose who genuinely hold silver memberships for personal use and are unable to attend every game are making that seat available for someone who might not otherwise be able to go.
For a red member to complain about not being able to get lower tier tickets is quite remarkable, given that these are like rocking horse droppings for silver members also.
Still, emotive issue this. Another reason for us all to fall out, eh? 😉
At least I have not complained about not getting lower tier ticket.
The only one I got was for Barça, where I…..borrowed a Silver membership ;). I don’t even consider them, and well, if not always the atmosphere, I love the view from the upper tier in most games and the difference is cost is always negligible wrt travel costs for me!
And yes I think we fundamentally agree (and hope to turn Silver soon ;D).
Chances of a fall out with me are pretty slim.
So another Guinness already please!
I always said that they should have built a 75,000 seater stadium. I still think that we should raise the roof and build another tier. Either that, or rip up the seats of the lower tier behind the ” North bank and Clock end ” to accomodate more fans.
The days of stupidity and crowd violence have long gone.
I don’t entirely agree with you on this one, ‘holic. (Long-time lurker, but first-time poster).
I’ve been waiting for eight years for a silver membership (including a year on the old membership scheme waiting list). But there are many silver members who literally don’t use their membership at all. I’d like to see a situation that if you don’t use your silver membership, say, three times in a year (and that’s not that onerous, surely), then it gets given up and you return to a red. (And it shouldn’t be just Man U, Spurs and Chelsea either!).
As it is, I have to wait for people to not pay out the thirty quid. And now it’s a direct debit for most people, it’s only a few hundred people a year who give up their silver membership. I’m less than a thousand from the top of the list, and I’m still not optimistic that I’ll get there this season.
I can’t afford a season ticket, and I can’t get to every match in any case. I go about six-eight times a year. And I’d love, just once, to go to see the modern Arsenal vs Man United or Arsenal vs Spurs. (Saw them loads of times from the old North Bank.) But I’ll never get to that unless I become a silver member.
Red members don’t have 5000 tickets available for every game. Witness Barcelona. No tickets went on sale to red members – even though you claim there were empty seats.
In addition, the ticket selection booking system is quirky to say the least – I don’t care whether I sit in block 100 or block 99, but when the red tickets go on sale, you have to go through, clicking each block, to see what’s available. Just tell me what’s available, and I’ll select one of them.
It is quicker to move through the season ticket waiting list, than it is to move from Red to Silver – I’m in a similar situation to you regarding travel, so a season ticket no longer makes sense for me, although it did when I lived in London eight years ago when I got on the season ticket waiting list. I’ve been a “red” member since this gradation was first introduced, and have had not a hint of silver tickets. It’s easier to get tickets for away games than it is for home games.
Certainly the point about season ticket holders being able to retain silver memberships is valid – as you say, it certainly has been the case in the past.
If junior gunners do get promoted to silver members, it’s probably going to be quicker for my daughter to get to silver membership than it will be for me…. How can that be right?
Rooting out the multiple memberships should be easy – most of them won’t have multiple addresses!
ian, the Barcelona situation isn’t just a ‘claim’. Everybody there saw a huge block of hundreds of empty seats in East Upper which were for UEFA/sponsors, part of the requirements of the organisers of the Champions League.
Similarly lots of families will genuinely hold and use silver memberships from the same address, so you cannot issue blanket bans on that basis, and actually, lots of people do use friends names and addresses for their ‘spares’.
I am sympathetic though to the problem of ‘blocking’ red members by ‘sleeping’ silvers. I just think any methods used to alleviate that problem should not penalise genuine supporters. I don’t think any of us would disagree about that.
I think that it could create more empty seats if the system were to change. Silver’s would buy tickets with no intention of attending purely to tout the tickets off. Touts are still around even after introducing Membership Cards, and I think a problem which people moan about now could get increasingly worse!!!
I think they need to do more to stop Touts! Undercover fans etc. The touts are the ones leaving seats empty, they sell a face value ticket for double one week, so if the week after the ticket doesn’t sell they’re not out of pocket.
I don’t think the system should change but a cleanup on Touting is a must!
The nail has been hit on the head here – the problem is with those who have been allowed to retain silver membership having progressed to gold memebrship and taken their season ticket.
I’m a red member – I’m there due to my own disorganisation, relative youth and idiocy, and we’ve all got our tales to tell of how our current lowly level of membership doesn’t reflect the life long years of emotive investment into the club.
But, practically speaking, I find it very easy to get to home games on Red membership. Every game for the last 3 seasons and many the season before, in fact, all through the ‘official channel’. Yes, I’m disappointed that my red membership has just come up for renewal rather than having been ‘promoted’ to silver, and I’d love to think that the waiting list is based as much on record of games attended (like away games) as on membership time, but realistically I know that it will take a long time to progress to silver (and that many people before me have served longer time with less games to show for it).
BUT. The silver membership is capped. Red membership is not. Simply put, how can anyone hope to progress to silver membership if Gold members can retain their silver membership? After all, who in their right mind would EVER give up their silver membership if they have the chance to keep it?
Hell, even if some do decide not to pay money to see the boys while trophyless years preside, you’d have to be a bloody moron to let your silver membership go.
That’s where I think red members (particularly those who regularly take advantage of their membership) have a right to complain. I am all for rewarding loyalty – truly I am. And I’ll do my time as I should, and be grateful for it. But moving into that capped silver membership is nigh on impossible, and in many cases because of multiple memberships. I don’t agree with that.
Fact is, there are silver members who don’t turn up. As there will be season ticket holders. Hell, even I get to go to games because I’m convinced many red members don’t realise how easy it is to get tickets at the moment! Speakign selfishly, there’s no harm, to my mind, in increasing silver capacity to accomodate some more red members (based on both time and ‘loyalty’) and increasing that competetivity for tickets.
I think there are a couple of conflicting issues here. The club for PL games has an almost 100% sell out record. Therefore any empty seats are not the result of them being available for sale, so any argument about allocation at Silver or Red level is not relevant.
The ticket exchange functionality is next to useless, it needs to be totally replaced with something much simpler. I have tried a number of times (as a red member) to access the system and never once been able to find a ticket even though the system is telling me they are available. In fact the whole process of booking tickets needs to change in my opinion this whole stadium map thing is crap because you spend 20 minutes click on the map only at the very last stage to tell you they can’t give you a seat in that area.
All it needs is a screen which says how many seats there are at each price range, you then say you want X number of seats and it then gives you the blocks those seats are available in. This would have two advantages, firstly it would mean as I user I could find a seat I want quickly and secondly free up the system for other people.
As for Silver membership, as has been mentioned in the comments, when two friends of mine got Season tickets for the new stadium they were allowed to keep their Silver membership. They got the reward for their loyalty in the form of season tickets. Personally I’d introduce a rule that if you don’t use a membership more than 5 times a year then you give up the right to it.
Hey there,
Being a silver member living in Switzerland, I cannot afford to come to every game. But when I book flights in advance, to get a better price, I like knowing that my silver membership all but guarantees me a ticket. It only happened to me once to have the flights booked and not getting a ticket (Real Madrid at Home in 06 CL). If what is mentioned goes trhough one day, I’ll be fucked. I’ve been on the season ticket waiting list for years….. but Silver still makes more sense to me living abroad. I watch every single game, TV or at the stadium, the fact that I cannot fly to each game doesn’t mean I should not deserve my silver membership. On Sunday I FLEW to a game many people didn’t turn up for, that shows my support is real.
Cheers
Think Martin and Tommo have got it spot on.
There needs to be some kind of credit system whereby you need to attend a certain volume of games in order to maintain your silver status and/or to apply for the big games.
Delicate situation with circumstances such as the holic’s though and you dont want to drive away long term fans who aren’t able to attend as regulalrly.
Perhaps people who have been attached to the club in memberships/season tickets for a real length of time should be protected in some way.
Guys:
I think it’s quite simple, but maybe I’m oversimplifying it correct me if I’m wrong please?
However not sure the club will want to address this because what I’m suggesting is biting the hand that feeds them (every week).
My experience is that this issue comes into play for many people by the actions of the current season ticket holder, whereby they do not put-up their tickets for resale either in time or ever, as they have the money NOT to be bothered with the other peoples plight @ securing tickets.
For me it’s as simple as looking @ the print-out that the cub must have every week on empty seats to see who the main offenders are.
Or maybe the season ticket holder should have to pre-book their own seats by a certain time, or they go into the pool to be sold-on on rather than leaving this to them to place them in the that said pool, & if they don’t then again looking into the seasons printout actions can be taken.
Very controversial I know apologies if I have upset any of our Platinum / Gold Members readers?
I’ll have a brandy barman cos I’m expecting a lot of stick for this view!!!
Very interesting post and thread with a lot of food for thought. My wife and I have been season ticket holders for 25 years, long before the idea of memberships took hold, now I find that we’re Gold members – it’s all in the name.
But I agree that the ticket exchange system needs urgent streamlining. To suggest, for instance, that on crowd figures issued for the Fulham game that there were only 400 empty seats in the stadium is ludicrous. Problem is of course that there’s no enormous incentive for the club to do anything as the empty seats have been sold anyway and the revenue taken. As an exiled North Londoner living in South East Essex I am frequently contacted by my local club (who I watch from time to time) Southend United offering me cheap season tickets as I’m over 60, easy payment for the tickets etc. Big clubs like Arsenal don’t need to offer these incentives, after all if you sell out every game and have a waiting list as well where’s the need? Ivan really needs to sort it out.
On a personal note where is Arsenal TV? Where I live is not exactly the uninhabited sticks, but the major broadband providers seem to think it is, our connection is so slow that watching videos etc is just watching endless buffereing. If Clsea, Man U, Liverpool, Celtic and Rangers can do oit why can’t Arsenal have it’s own dedictated subscription TV channel?
Actually Joe, I have exaggerated the degree to which I might be at risk. Ivan was talking about those attending five games, I usually make about a dozen or so, but the number is irrelevant in many ways. People will still complain if a figure of five does become the cut-off point, so that could increase to the point that I and many others are under threat.
I waited a great number of years to get from red to silver membership. However in that time my circumstances changed and I am now less available and have less spending power to be able to see as many games as I’d like. Additonally most of the people I attend games with are on red membership so I normally have to wait to buy and end up missing out on some games means I attend less games now than in Highbury days.
I agree that the system doesn’t favour fans who are more willing to attend games now but I agree with Holic that if my membership were to be downgraded my years of loyalty would have meant not much at all.
Oh forgot to say, great to the u18 lads winning the FA Premier Academy League yesterday, I tried to get along to have a look @ them but the morning just eat into the afternoon @ by that time it was too late.
However it seems not many of the Youth team winners of last year were used & they still spanked Forest.
So it looks like AW has another headache of sifting through this good crop of kids to see who’s going to make, what a great problem to have…………….
Something going very right with our Academy don’t you think?
I think there should be a loyalty scheme for red members. As a red memebr, I had been to most of the home games this season in the premiership but did not manage to get a ticket to the last game of the season!!!!!
There really is no hope for Red members becoming Silver members. Case in point: I was on the waiting list for season tickets for 10 full years (i put my name down before they even created red memberships). Started on the Red member scheme for years and years (though i was never once able to attend a premiership match on it. I guess i wasn’t quick enough?). I last summer, lo and behold, I got a letter saying my numbers had come up and I was ready to receive my season tickets!
Now, I was shocked since, naturally, I assumed I’d have to go from red to silver to gold, but instead, went straight to gold. So this begs the question – what is going on?
Based on some of the above posts, it seems as though Gold members who got bumped from Silver, are still carrying their silver cards. Lord knows why. I guess to buy seats for friends who are not members? I dropped my red memberships as soon as I got my golds. There definitely seems to be a flaw in the system somewhere. I just thought i’d share my experience so you can see that gettinng a gold membership is actually more likely than ever seeing silver!!
One thing I do know – when silver members are offered gold and they refuse, they are dropped of their silver cards. So either all silver members are already gold members, or something strange is going on.
mootz, you are confusing two lists.
The season ticket waiting list is entirely separate from red membership. If you were offered a gold membership (season ticket) it is because you were on this list.
Red members do not graduate to gold.
There’s another (far bigger) problem with the membership and that’s what happens when a Silver member gets a season ticket. Basically they get their Gold membership, but also get to keep their Silver as well.
The club should cancel all these silvers immediately.
Another problem with the system is that if you can’t afford a season ticket then no matter how long you’ve held one you go down to red membership. For instance I’ve held a season ticket since the 70s but if I couldn’t afford one this season then next season I’d be competing with people who are brand new Red members for tickets. That’s wrong, and even applies to the original Bond Holders!
@ Goonerholic
I think the club should decrease the preferential time allowed for buying tickets from 4 weeks to 2 weeks. Surely two weeks is more than enough time for Silver members to purchase one of the “lower” priced seats?
At the current rate, red members are left with the more expensive seats on the upper tier, which are very expensive (£47 to purchase a ticket to watch Bolton in the upper tier. Scandalous!)
As a red member, this will benefit people on my level immensely and it will increase our chances of obtaining a ticket for some of the premium games (Spuds, Man United, Chelski and Liverpool).
Hi All,
First Up, Great blog.
I just have a question with regards to international membership to Arsenal? Does the club have any membership where you could become an official member without having to buy tickets to the game? Such as Red etc..
It would be great for my family and myself to become official members, but traveling to weekly fixtures could become slightly problematic.
Any suggestions?
Secondly, are there any supporters coming down to my fair country for the World Cup in June? I am more than happy to offer any advice with regards to getting around, indiginous insults to use etc.
I’ll have a Black Label, Barman.
‘holic,
thanks for clearing that up. can you then be a sliver and not on the season ticket waiting list? sliver graduates to gold, no? boy this is confusing. i’m just happy i have my tickets!
best of luck wiht your situation, M
Cheers mootz,
Silvers definitely do not get gold membership as a ‘graduation’. They too have to pay an additional fee to join the separate season ticket waiting list.
All silver membership gets you is a head start on red members in the application timeframe for tickets on a match by match basis, and in fact there are more silver members than tickets available! Hence why silver members too are extremely fortunate if they are able to buy a lower tier ticket for games.
Anybody who wants to attend every game would certainly be better advised to join the season ticket waiting list.
Oh, and South African. If you don’t require tickets, but want to belong to the club, then red membership is one option open to you. The other is to join the South Africa Arsenal Supporters Club. Check them out here…
http://www.arsenalsa.co.za/
Thanks Goonerholic,
I already am a member of Arsenal Cape Town, as an official supporters club, I guess that’ll have to do..
Might get that Red Membership for my wife (North London born and bred).
That might make her day.
Keep up the great work ‘holic.
The season waiting list/ red –> silver membership list is a bit confusing to me. As an American who is only to make it to one (two at most) home game per year on my red membership, I would hope, greedily, that this lack of attendance doesn’t hurt my chances of eventually graduating to a higher membership. I plan on moving to the UK sometime in my life, and am hoping that this correlates conveniently with the time I am able to get a silver/gold.
That said, I have had no trouble getting tickets to matches at the Grove, sat lower tier in one of the corners for the last few seasons by going through the official route.
The away scheme on the other hand, I’m clueless about – had to take the “friend of a friend has a friend with a spare” course of action to get to away games so far. Can someone enlighten me on how this works?
I’m not that well versed in the ticket exchange system at Arsenal, but let me explain how it works for a lowly Major League Soccer club named Toronto FC.
When the club first got going, they invited potential season seat holders to sign up, with a deposit, to secure some seats. Based on how fast you dropped your money down, you were put in relative priority to your peers. When it came time to secure season seats, you were given a set time with an account rep to pick from what was available. That was a few years ago.
In each off season, you were invited back to the stadium, based on the same priority list you were in back when the club was founded, to pick over seats not being renewed. If it was a lateral move, no additional cost; if you were moving up in the world, there was a delta.
You renew your entire season seat package in the offseason, roughly 4-5 months before the season kicks off. You pay it all upfront well ahead of the season starting. What you get in the mail is a package that contains print tickets for all the home games, a scarf, and a discount card for the club merchandise store.
What you can do, of course, is sell your tickets for each individual home game freely to anyone else. Besides the printed tickets you receive, there are PDF versions in your online Season Seat Holder Account. You can offer them back to other season seat holders, and if they are purchased from you via that mechanism, your account is credited against your season renewal for the next season. If you want, you can download the PDF files yourself, or, forward them via email to someone else. Whether or not you received compensation (i.e. via an eBay auction) is completely beside the point. Yes, there are local laws about not receiving more compensation than the value printed on the tickets, but because you buy your season seats as a package, your pre-game price is usually at least 14% cheaper than if some poor soul tried to buy a ticket (for a seat not held by a season seat holder) at the box office for an individual game.
There is a waiting list for season seats, and I believe that while on the waiting list, you can purchase single game tickets off of season seat holders via the same ‘exchange’ mechanism that I described earlier in the online Account mechanism. You simply select the game you wish to attend, peruse what is for sale from either season seat holders, or the club (for the odd seat that is not held by a season seat holder) and away you go.
One thing a start up club does not want is empty seats. It does no good to anyone for people at the game or viewing on the telly, to see empty seats. You want Season Seat holders to renew, and have a chance to offload tickets to games they cannot attend, and you want prospective fans to have an opportunity to buy tickets from the club or at least, a season seat holder.
The fact that from what I am hearing, it isn’t as simple as this for Arsenal supporters, is down right insane. Its a demand driven market so yes, the club has to be worried that for every empty seat, there is a double negative; the season seat holder couldn’t be arsed to show up or offload their ticket, or, worse, there wasn’t someone willing to take it off their hands. If there is a waiting list for seats, how is it that the stadium isn’t always full?
I know the answer in the case of Toronto FC – the team can tend to stink it up on the pitch. In the case of Arsenal in 2009-2010… ohh, errr, nevermind.
Fix your product, or your customers will vote with their legs.
as an overseas resident these days, I do not have much chance to visit, so thx to my nephew who got me a ticket for my last visit
FYI when our team visited Barca, I tried to get tickets from them and failed. However their system for tickets is pretty damn good (its avail in english if you want to look)
For that match , season tick holders could access the interactive system several days before. There’s another level who could access 3-4 days before, then 24 hours before match generaL availability of tickets including tickets unused from Season holders
The system is pretty cool offering coloured indication of which, fairly small, blocks have seats avail.(this includes what the view would be from the block) You click on one of these and are offered exact seats. For our visit, it seems that we were restricted to those seats in the Gods where you travelling supporters were I guess
Maybe if you want to talk to AST using Barca as an example, things might improve..good luck
BTW for our last match it seemed that lots of empty seats from what I saw on telly – is that people doing a small protest or what
My son was involved in a Sunday League Cup final on the afternoon of the Fulham game. We have 3 season tickets and tried to put them on the ticket exchange over a week before the match and ticket exchange was closed early due to season ticket renewals being sent out. Guess a few people were caught out.
My daughter graduates from the family enclosure this year, so will have to pay full adult price. She is off to university in September and the club will defer her ticket for one year but not 3. She will have to go back onto the season ticket waiting list and become a red member – how unfair is that!
The whole system is crazy, there is no consideration of circumstsnces, just rules to hide behind. We also have to wait for someone to contact us as nobody in customer services can discuss it.
[…] seats at games near the end of the season should enable them to understand that (a point made by goonerholic and […]
Well hello RayB! So now there’s Lee…, your goodself and missus and Moi – all Shrimpers as well! Sad to see them go down.
With regards to Arsenal TV, it’s online now, after the demise of Sultana Sports Heh.
The away scheme on the other hand, I’m clueless about – had to take the “friend of a friend has a friend with a spare” course of action to get to away games so far. Can someone enlighten me on how this works?
Pretty much a closed shop now, unless you get a season ticket and start building credits, which isn’t easy. Old members of the away ticket scheme and travel club are the only others with a crack at them.
The friend of a friend route is one to maintain…
I see the great unwashed are still banging on about the unfairness of it all.
From an outside perspective the club is pretty poor at managing its community, managing to piss off both the have’s and have-not’s and bear the burden of a significant number of undesirables. Given the demand it would make sense for the club to select who attends the game not only on money and patience but in a way that increases satisfaction to everyone involved, including the club. It’s hard to understand how in 2010 there isn’t a significant effort to understand/segment Arsenal’s customer base and address their needs specifically. Gazidis would do well to get someone with some marketing experience on board, anyone with that background can immediately see that the current membership system is an abomination whose end result is generalized frustration for the fans and a less-than performing crowd at home for the club.
You can never please all of the people all of the time, Jackster, as well you know 😉
Well as a temporary member of the STless I have some sympathy
Anyway as long as Holic keeps finding his way to the Grove and comes back with more exceptional posts, that’s all that matters in the end 😉
I’d like to thank you again Holic for providing this wonderful platform for all of us. I’ve been privileged to have discovered this Arsenal haven for quite a while now and I’m amazed at how hard you’ve worked to gather the cream of Arsenal fandom in ever-more interesting discussions. You totally outdid yourself this season not only posting much more often (and participating more in our debates) but also you’ve broached even more topics than in the past and you were already the broadest Arsenal blog there is.
I’m hopeful holics from around the world will join me for a toast to honor and express our gratitude to our exceptional host:
* “Aish karo” (Enjoy),(India)
* “Balle”, “Chak De” (India)
* “?? ?????? ?????” (Wish you happiness), (Mongolia)
* “????? ???????” (To health) (Russia)
* “??????” (abbreviation for “?????? ???????” – “To our health”) (Ukraine)
* “???? ????????” (To your health) (Russia)
* “?????” (To health) (Arabic, Arab World)
* “Kessak” (Cheers) (Lebanon)
* “??????”(Salahmatie) or “?? ??????”(Be salahmatie) or “????”(Salahm) (To good health) (Persian , Iran)
* “Bottoms Up” (United Kingdom)
* “Cheers” (Thank you) (United Kingdom, Ireland, United States, New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, and Canada)
* “Chin Chin” (The sound made by the cups) (Argentina, United Kingdom, France, French Canada and Portugal)
* “???? (Duem)” (Drink) (Thailand)
* “Chúc S?c Kho?” (Live long and prosper) (Vietnam)
* “??? ???????” (For your health) (Armenia)
* “Egészségedre” (To your good health) (Hungary)
* “Eviva” (Maltese)
* “????? ?Gan Bei?” (Empty the cup/glass) (China)
* “?????????” (To victory) (Georgia)
* “???? ???” (“Yia mas”, meaning “to our health”) (Greece)
* “??” (Geonbae) or “???” (Wihayeo) (Korea)
* “Gesondheid” (Health) (South African Afrikaans)
* “Iechyd Da” (Wales)
* “? sveikat?” (To health) (Lithuania)
* “??” (????) (Kanpai) (Japan)
* “Kippis” (Finland)
* “?????” (L’Chayim) (To life) (Hebrew, Israel)
* “Letenachin” (Ethiopia)
* “Here’s mud in your eye” (United States)
* “????????” (To good health) (Bulgaria)
* “?? ???????” (To good health) (Republic of Macedonia)
* “Mabuhay!” (Long live!) or “Kampay” (borrowed term from ??; Japanese kanpai and Chinese gunbei) (Philippines)
* “Maisha Merefu” (To good life) ([Kenya])
* “Na zdraví” (To health) (Czech Republic)
* “Na zdravie” (To health) (Slovakia)
* “Na zdravje” (To health) (Slovenia)
* “Na zdravlje” (To good health) & “Živjeli” (To longer life) (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
* “Na zdrowie” (To health) and “Sto lat!” (“100 years [of life to you]”)(Poland)
* “Noroc” (Good luck) (Romania, Moldova[35])
* “Onna Ehenam” (Shall we gentlemen), (Sri Lanka)
* “Priek?”, “prosit” (To joy/cheer) (Latvia)
* “Proost” (The Netherlands)
* “Prost”, “Prosit” (Germany and Austria) from Latin “prosit” — “may it be good, i.e., for you” [1] [2]
* “Pura vida” (Costa Rica)
* “Saliq” (Azerbaijan)
* “Salud” or “Salut” (Health) (Spain and Spanish speaking places)
* “Salut” (Catalan Countries)
* “Salute” (To health) or “Cin cin” or “Cent’anni” (A hundred years [of good health / luck]) (Italy)
* “S?n?tate!” (To good health) (Romania)
* “Santé” (To health) (France, French-speaking Switzerland and Québec)
* “Saúde” (Health) (Brazil, Portugal and Portuguese speaking places)
* “Schol” (Flanders)
* “?erefe” (To honour) (Turkey)
* “Skål” ([The] cup) (Denmark, Norway and Sweden, also used in Australia. pronounced, “skull”, meaning that the glass must be drained in one attempt)
* “Skál” ([The] cup) (Iceland, Faroe Islands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland)
* “Skoal” (Anglicization of Skål) (English-speaking countries)
* “Sláinte” (Ireland) (meaning ‘good health’)
* “Slàinte” (Scots Gaelic-speaking places)
* “Tchim-tchim” (Brazil, Portugal and Portuguese speaking places)
* “Terviseks” (For health) (Estonia)
* “Topa” (Clink [the glasses]) (Basque)
* “Tsjoch” (Friesland)
* “Tzvertji nye vy ?orcj” (May death come swiftly to your enemies) (South Ossetia)
* “Živeli”(To life/health) (Serbia)
* “Živjeli” (To life) or “Nazdravlje” (To health) or “U zdravlje” (To health) (Croatia)
* “Zum Wohl” (To (your) well-being) (Germany, Austria and German-speaking Switzerland)
Blimey 🙂
Cheers Matt.
And a bit of good news today: it looks like lady Nina wants to sell to someone outside the board so Arsenal will not be a billionaire’s toy next year.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2010/05/11/1920197/sizeable-interest-in-lady-bracewell-smiths-arsenal-shares
DJ Dragonfly @ 55
Not arguing with your point at all, but i note you found £47 for a seat in the upper tier, vs Bolton, scandalous.
Just for info, my seat in Block 91 Upper Tier, vs Bolton, worked out at £70!, as do all Category B and FA Cup games.
Category A games work out at £94! and include West Ham United, yeah them, you know our close rivals at the top of the league.
Due to administrative problems it was the only option left open to me at Ashburton Grove, and while i am lucky to have it, the cost is huge – including the additional FA Cup and CL home ties (over and above our 7 included ties) from last season, my renewal for 2009/2010 was just over £2,100.
I realise pricing is not really the subject of the current debate, but maybe, if the club are looking at ticketing issues, they might also take a look at pricing, given our apparent increasing wealth. Won’t hold my breath though.
Arsenal would only benefit from SK buying controlling interest of the club.
Just Saying
The Doodle – Highland Park IL
Dan @76: How so? Absolute control of the club doesn’t look too good a proposition for Pool, Chelski nor United these days considering how much debt they are loaded with.
Pool will be lucky to escape relegation in the coming seasons, United cannot endure many more seasons like this one and we’ll see if they won’t have to sell Rooney to cover the losses and Chelski has to buy a new generation of players which will probably have them overtake United as the club deepest in the red. 10 years from now we will be the last one still in the top 4.
Maybe I’m missing something but what would be there to be gained from SK’s ownership again?
Bloody hell….as someone reared on my Dad’s season tickets – to then always simply paying at the gate to stand on the North Bank (except the occasional all ticket affairs, queuing up the hill all night it used to seem) and eventually season tickets just because it was a bit easier/cheaper – all of the above has left me feeling very distant/confused. I moved away from the UK in 95 and to read about the ordeals of seeing a match now is quite remarkable. Oh for the old days of rubbish football but 27,000 against Norwich eh?
The only decision then was how much pub time did you want weighed against what part of the North Bank. I feel so removed from the complexity of seeing a match now. I will however watch the video and try and make sense of it.
Cheers – a high energy fruit drink please.
Im with Tim,
Red Green Purple Silver Gold i can see a rainbow see a rainbow, carnt we just got back to the pay on the door days 😉
Tim,
I will disagree on games against Norwich tho whenever we played them there were goals a plenty and a nice feisty match one that particulary stands out was a home game think it was either 4-3 or 4-2 it was a classic !!! And another one when we come out of Arsenal tube only to be confronted by the biggest mist London had seen in about 100 years couldnt see the other side of the road was like a hooror movie lol
Agree with @Tim Merrick.
I grew up with the situation in the 70s that you describe and I feel completely alienated from the modern set up. I don’t know what 70p in 1976 money would be worth today but I’m sure it wouldn’t be £47.00.
The narrow social make up of the crowd at the Arsenal today compared to what it once was makes me very sad.
Jackster 71 : HEH!
Toto, wholeheartedly agree with your first paragraph, but ‘narrow social make up of the crowd’?
I was drinking on Sunday with a crowd so diverse you wouldn’t believe it in one small beer garden.
I look around the Grove these days and I see grizzlies I used to stick close to years ago, bankers,solicitors, designers, milkmen, postmen, luvvies, men, women, children, pensioners, every nationality under the sun. millionaires, unemployed, oligarchs (only kidding) and blaspheming Labour mp’s. All human life is there, along with a couple of new species of undetermined origin.
How much more bleeding broad could it possibly be?
referring to your earlier reply ‘holic, that would certainly be a worry if the criteria for maintaining silver is increased to anything more than 5. Luckily I dont have to worry about it at the moment as Im a gold member, but if my circumstances change and so too does my level of membership, I would expect some kind of loyalty from the club for having lined their pockets for so long.
its the old worry of the changing fan.if the club could sell 60,000 club level memberships, they probably would.
Something to change the mood my fellow Gooners a top top video clip which shows our 2009/10 season and can be viewed in HD.
Enjoy…!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1SD0yQmRsM&feature=player_embedded#!
I chose Norwich at random….should have said Luton eh? The punch up in 91 (?) was great….11 Norwich players thanking Alan Smith for scoring by trying to pull his head off and only Winterburn available to help. We got fined for getting mobbed…..
It’s just amazing though how much the set up has changed in the years I’ve been abroad – that football/business and I understand that. Would an 80,000 capacity stadium have been the answer or was there too much feat it would be 30% empty for too many matches?
*fear not feat (in final sentence)
Tim,
Now id agree with you, Luton what a shit hole lol, And i cannot remember 1 memorbale match apart from the one we shall not talk about 😉
Ha ha forgot that punch up! Every game against Norwich for a little period ended in a mass brawl 🙂 Ive always wondered what properly sparked it all,
That 91 side never got the credit for how good they actually were although they could scrap if needed they played some superb stuff that season,I was at Chelsea for the only loss that campaign and we battered them that day should have had 3 in the last 5 mins alone, Never went along with the boring tag for them, I thought he put together a nigh on perfect side good skills but fought for every minute of the 90 todays lot could well take a leaf out of that sides book, They might just start to win the big things if they did,
Tim,
It sure has but so has Football as a rule its not just Arsenal although they are the ones i moan about lol, Many Many good people still go over there tho and that will never change they may not all still go into the ground but they are around the area,
I also think alot has to do with where your seated when we first moved in i was in Orange (what a shit name glad all thats being changed) and most of the East Lower seemed to be in the same block even the old East Lower steward untill he quit was on our entrance !
But after a year the faces started to change as people either didnt renew or just rented out the season tickets,
I keep hijacking this otherwise very interesting thread (£50-£100 to attend one game!) but it looks like finally the club will be trying hard to tackle injuries next season and since injuries have cost us the title twice in the last 3 years the news is worth all the transfer rumors!
So we’re copying Chelski in monitoring how the players are running to assess their freshness and thus their chances of injuries.
Sorry about the mirror link, `Holic…
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/john-cross/How-Arsenal-are-going-to-extreme-lengths-to-tackle-their-injury-problems-The-John-Cross-Column-article423535.html
If we manage to lower our injury rate to Chelski’s level next season (roughly half ours) now we’re talking about real chances of silverware.
Uh, sorry to buy into the rumor-barca-cesc-crap-mill, but does anyone else feel a certain ominousness to these latest round of direct quotes from our captain?
Just hopeful someone will smack me and tell me it’s all nonsense…
Did you like being scared as a kid? Just asking…
Captain Fab will go to Barca but just not this summer, he’s saying he’s happy at Arsenal and he’s been saying it all the time this season. Unfortunately a repeated oath of loyalty doesn’t bring page views whereas fearmongering does.
But surely the empty seats are mostly caused by season ticket holders not attending for one reason or another?
I know 2 guys that work in Dubai, they are on such fantastic money the season ticket cost is peanuts to them, they just come over 3 or 4 times a year and leave the other 16 or so matches seat empty.
So, my stupid idea is for the box office outside the ground to start selling empty seats 10 mins after kick off. With the computer controlled turnstiles they know *exactly* how many people have gone in and how many empty seats there are.
I’ll get my coat 🙂
Matt. I think you are right but still cant help feeling that i wish some of these players would just keep their gobs shut. Is that too much to ask?
I’am afraid it is too much to ask indeed. Players are contractually under obligation to give regular interviews, 99% of which is ignored by the gutter press which will jump at the opportunity to distort the remaining 1% to come up with some sensationalism to generate interest. Nothing new under the sun.
The WC starts in a month so we won’t have to endure the Cesc fud for too long and with real transfer activity starting soon the tabloids will move on.
But then Xavi is 30 so it won’t be long before Barca can offer Cesc a starting spot. Unless we win big next year he will go.
If you don’t boycott the Sun…you really should. What a bunch of alarmist crap…(reminds me of some other blogs that will go unmentioned)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2972439/They-sink-its-all-over.html
My son is a junior gunner and I am a red member ,I find it stupid that my 8 year old can purchase a ticket 8 weeks in advance and that I have to wait 4 weeks before a game to make my purchase.
Needless to say my 8 year old doesnt buy a ticket when they go on sale as he wouldnt be able to attend unless I can get a ticket and I dont know this until 4 weeks in advance.
Surely it would make more sense for Junior Gunners to be able to purchase 2 tickets for the familly enclosure as long as the person accompanying them was at least a red member.
Any thoughts?
Rant over
I think it would be good to look at it in some way. I’ve been a red member for 10 years and there is seemingly no chance of upgrading to silver any time soon. Red members find it almost impossible to get tickets to the big games despite the ‘reserved red allocation’, and the smaller games you’re forced to pay for the more expensive seats as the others have all been taken. I guess it just goes to show the strength of numbers still wanting to see the arsenal every week, despite what many doom mongerers love to forecast
Sorry about the late post, i just clicked a link from your other article..admitedly 2 weeks late!
To lay all claims of bias to one side I will explain my position. I am a lifelong gooner, early 30s. I have been a red member since the scheme existed and was on some other waiting list before that. I have also been on the season ticket waiting list for as long as I can remember. My 1 mistake was one year I was late to renew my red membership as I was working abroad at the time. I assume that’s why I havent been offered silver. I have tried to get tickets on my red membership for most home games, with varying sucess. I would say I managed to make around 8 – 12 games per season. None of the big ones of couurse. Last season and this coming one I have taken a season ticket from someone who no longer can or wants to have one, but does not want to relinquish it.
I’d say if you include holidays and family commitments etc there are probably 3-4 games per season a ticket holder genuinely can’t get to. Probably another 3 or 4 that they dont really fancy getting to.
The reason there are so many empty seats is because when unofficial ‘season ticket holders’ like myself can’t go we do not have access to the fabled exchange system. We either pass our tickets on to someone who can get them back to us before the next game or just leave it.
This is my plan to tweak the current system
Membership cards have pictures on them. If the picture doesnt match the person going, you dont get in. This stops touts and people hogging season tickets and silver membership.
Silver members must attend a miniumum of 5 games per season or drop back down to red.
There is a system to enable all levels of membership to drop their unwanted tickets back into the pool up until the day of the game.
There is a system to allow all members to purchase tickets up until kick off.
There is a one year grace period for season ticket holders who cannot renew for financial or personal reasons. If a season ticket holder does not renew, they have the option of going straight into silver.
There is a one year grace period for silver members who cannot make 5 games in one season before they drop back to red.
A red member must wait a minumum of 4 years before being offered silver.
This of course favours people who want to go, as any ticketing system should, whilst offering season ticket holder and silver members a degree of protection from personal circumstances changing.
Any takers?
The membership issue is one that is almost impossible to resolve. I am a silver member and was red before that and on the ticket registration scheme waiting list before that. I work a shift pattern and so a seaon ticket is of no interest to me. As a red member I was always able to attend games during a season even at Highbury but perhaps not the “bigger” games. Now Silver I know that i can attend pretty much any game i like if I am able to. I’ve done my time and I think I deserve that reward. What reds must understand is that there are not enough seats for all Silvers to purchase tickets so they should be grateful for all those Silvers who dont use them. So the bigger games get sold out quicker. Of course they do its the same for silvers. I missed out on Barcelona home and Man Utd (CL Semi). Tried all day but no luck. Was I gutted yes but thats how it go’s. The club now hold back 1500 seats for ALL prem games for reds so you have to try and get lucky. Which person deserves a ticket more than another is impossible to define the variables are too many. Even if I could only make one game a season why shoud I be denied that? The one issue I do worry about is that of younger fans and thier access to tickets.
The whole ticketing system is unfair. Do away with Silver membership altogether and have a first come first serve system, like Glastonbury tickets are sold.. what is the issue with this? If people want to go they’ll be sure to be ready to book when the tickets go on sale and those that want it most will get the tickets?
I don’t see why there can’t be one membership for all, with exception of season tickets which is fair do’s.
Now I know that life isn’t fair, but the promoting of Junior Gunners straight to Silvers is also ludicrous. Some 7 year old kid out there who has never been to a game as yet will prob get his silver membership before I finally get to the front of the list. So frustrating!