The Players Are Taking Advantage, But Who Is Letting Them?
May 4th, 2011 by 'holic
Like all of you my various mailboxes are weighed down with correspondence from the club, the supporters organisations, and some of you. The increase in ticket prices next season comes at an inopportune moment, of that there is little doubt. The timing, however, is a given. From the club’s point of view if they don’t do it now then it will be another year.
One would have more sympathy with the club’s stance that they have only instigated one small increase in five years were it not for the fact that we start from a very high base. On Sunday I was drinking with a ‘holic who paid £70.15 (including booking fee – what is that all about?) to sit in the North Bank Upper. I can remember it wasn’t that long ago when I would not have paid that to a tout for a big match ticket. My ticket, at the other end of the stadium and in the corner above the visiting fans was the thick end of sixty quid. It’s a dear old day, doing Grade A. Is it any wonder supporters on low incomes, and those with kids, are starting to feel the squeeze?
In his letter to the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust, Arsenal CEO Ivan Gazidis wrote,
“I share your concerns that ordinary fans are being priced out of live football. This is bad for the continued health of the game and is driven primarily by escalating and ultimately unsustainable levels of spending on transfer fees and salaries. This is a fundamental issue that football needs to address and is why I have been a vocal supporter of Uefa’s proposals to bring more restraint and responsibility to spending within football.”
It is interesting that he talks about the scourge of high salaries. I have had a discussion with many people in recent years about arguably the biggest parasites in the modern game. The footballers themselves. Don’t get me wrong, nobody would want a return to the days where clubs could hold players registrations even after their contract had expired. Few would want to see a return to a maximum wage of not much more than the average wage. Yet even when those two things were blown apart in the early sixties football clubs were run as profitable entities within their means.
Even when transfer fees went through the six, then the seven figure barrier, the money was circulating between football clubs. Those without massive support were able to balance the books, or fund new purchases, by selling players to those clubs who had the funds. The money stayed by and large in the game, circulating between the clubs as the lifeblood of the national game.
Then along came Bosman, and Sky, and the Premier League, and the Champions League. The difference in rewards for success and just ticking over became huge. The money men rubbed their hands. The players smelled blood, and the agents smelled the players. To get success the money men needed to pay players a lot more to attract them and hopefully secure the new riches on offer. Those who weren’t successful had to borrow to fund the dream. Leeds United came a financial cropper at the highest level.
Nowadays the money does not stay within the game. Those huge salaries that Gazidis spoke of are going in the pockets of the players and assorted leeches. Even when large transfer fees are required they are contracted on the never-never, with agents clawing increasing percentages out of the clubs for ‘facilitating’ the deals. Then it dawns on you. Who can really blame these parasites when the men charged with running our top clubs are happily contributing to the problem by paying ever-increasing sums, to often less-than-top-quality players, over long term deals.
That, gentlemen of Arsenal Football Club, is what really irks the average supporter. Tell me my money is meeting increased costs in stewarding, policing, staffing service outlets, and improved facilities for my benefit on matchday, and I understand that. Tell me that you will use our increased contribution to acquire better players for the team this summer, and I will understand. You must understand something in return though.
I have a relatively declining disposable income to spend on my first love. That means next season I will have, in real terms, less to spend on you. Charge me more for my ticket, and I will have to compensate. I have already started, to be fair. My 1971 shirts will not need replacing every year. If I am paying an extra three or four quid next season I suspect the programme will be next to go. I will definitely have a roll and a Guinness in the pub and save myself at least a couple of quid on a pie and a pint in the ground. Many are making the same decisions.
I’ll pay the extra for the ticket grudgingly, and accept that you aren’t doing anything that other clubs aren’t doing, (cue lots of wags in the drinks saying including winning things). Be very careful though. The contract between football club and supporter is for life, there is no doubt. Already though many have discovered the options of watching games in pubs and online. It isn’t the same as being at the game, obviously, but there is a point at which value has to be assessed against benefit. At £70.15 plus 6.5 percent I would suggest to you that many are close to changing their habits for ever.
122 Responses to “The Players Are Taking Advantage, But Who Is Letting Them?”
Holic all fair points but I was also wondering about the supporters positions in all that is happening and I wanted to get your opinion. I wonder how many of the poor home showings and points dropped against lesser opponents at home are down to the lack of atmosphere and fan participation in the stadium? On the road we are always up for it. For big teams we are always up for it. I feel like with other clubs, seeking the fans approval is the motivation players have to perform every single game. It just seems like the players adopt the mentality of the fans. We feel like the sky has fallen when we get a bad result and it seems to rub off on the players. I do not know if it is the same at other clubs or not. Dont get me wrong it is not excusable in any way, but I just wonder if this is part of the current problem. I have never been to the Emirates though it is a life goal of mine so please forgive me if I am way off in my thinking… And sorry to hijack your post but I do think the relationship between fans and club is the root of the price debate as well
That was a swift move Holic
One router please. Is that even a drink?
Don’t Ollie,
Quick set-up isn’t quick if it falls over.
Luckily we are wireless again.
Swift move, G?
WEll Guinness then, and I’ll raise it to wireless.
Good write-up. I’ve started to cut on the programmes a bit, myself.
I must admit ticket price rises, new shirts and Emirates Cup tickets didn’t hit me all of a sudden last year is it has this year (minus the ticket price rises).
…however I shall go to the ball…
…saying that I can’t remember the last time I watched the EC on TV.
Wonder what it’ll look like? 😉
(now stick the above through the spell checker)
Good stuff there Shadders.
Sometimes I am thankful that I can only make it over a couple of times per season.
Holic I was just enjoying a Guinness in the other bar after a short lay off from stronger beverages and I blink and this bar opens up…
A good read to go with a glass of Sancerre
It’s a dear old day, doing Grade A.
Haha tell me about it !! and thats not to mention it playing havoc with your nostrils and sleep patterns 🙂
Disagree on the pub part – More and more are doing it and the atmosphere is better than in the ground 😉
I love this post.Much to think about. Thanks ‘holic
Too true ‘Holic. Interesting delay unt after the Manure result in announcing the rise that was mooted some time ago. Frankly they must think we are mugs or maybe I should use the US vernacular: suckers. I am definitely reviewing the wisdom of renewing the season ticket given the shenanigans of the last few seasons. It ain’t the football club we used to know and love by a long shot. Multinational corporation that milks the longsufferinf fans and employing expensive mercenaries with limited loyalty and commitment. Serve me a scotch and jaundice please but I confess I will be there again in August.
Nice one Holic,
As I only make it to about 4 games a season at the Grove, a 6.5% increase is not going to make too much of an impact on me, in the bigger scheme of things.
The cost of airline tickets on the other hand and any increase on beer tax is more liable to get my attention!!
Seriously though, it is a crying shame what the game has become – I really feel for the regulars (locals?) who want to take their kids along to each home game, which used to be a tradition for so many, who have been abandoned by the people who run the game.
There are loads of people to blame, the Administrators, Agents, Murdoch, Fifa/Uefa and I do wonder where it will all end. Games played at empty stadiums projected into living rooms in 3D I suspect, with a fake soundtrack to make it seem “real”.
Arsenal don’t help and are certainly contributing to this state of affairs, that is for sure.
excellent post ‘holic….makes my days of attending a game, getting a few pints and fanzines and having change from a twenty seem like it should be in black and white. It wasn’t that along go…(I’m 43)….what scares me most is where does it end?
Salary caps and luxury taxes? Draft picks and quotas for young players? How do owners collude (without colluding) and saying nobody is going to earn more than ‘x’ amount per week? How can any extra in the wage packet be based on winning trophies and final league positions…..?
Really huge questions and important ones. It’s not as if going to see a league 2 side in a seventy year old ground that is falling to bits is inexpensive either.
But just going back to my earlier statement…if the above was true for me when I was 20 (it was) and I was earning 18,000 a year in 1987 (I was)…..then how much would a ticket, two pints and two fanzines cost me in August? How many times higher than then would it be…and what would my salary need to be so that the relative costs were the same?
(I need you to add up the costs as I’m no longer in England as you know)….
Cheers
I’m starting a Facebook group along the
lines of ‘VCC- The Gooner Army
Against Terror And Anti-
Terrorism’.
The united game
showed me how
‘united’ we are. Regardless of
differing opinions. Point in case- Wenger/Anti Wenger . Over the
coming weeks and months there’s
going to be global turmoil. There
are Gooners all over…. I Would
like to show my support against
the killing of any fellow GOONER
around the world.
It will be a platform that will keep
GOONERS closer because
international political views are
starting to cause anomosity
amongst us. That shouldn’t be
happening. We can’t let any media propoganda and news
besides Arsenal and football KILL
our international Brotherhood.
Let me know if you are in interested.
VCC
Dont really care
about OBL being a Gooner or not.
I’m sure lotsa us have GOONER
friends, especially those on Facebook, in pakistan, middle east, and any other
place where fights WILL start
breaking out soon. I want us to live
up to our slogan. Victory Through
Harmony.
We’ve got one of the most
diverse squads in the world.
American and Russian owned.
French manager. Euro and
African players. And ofcourse
Nasri and Chamakh…. Is there a
team that shows any more
diversity than this?
If anyone is interested, add me on Facebook (Imran Palekar) or email me (imranpal85@yahoo.com)
Please note- This is not a muslim vs non-muslim concept. ITS ABOUT US AS GOONERS LIVING UP TO VCC.
Your support will be appreciated.
GUNNERS4LIFE
This grade A carry on has to stop. All games in the league should be the same price.Why should we have to pay more to see man u than to see Bolton? It’s the SAME league so should equal same price.
This is a wealth transfer system like anything else in the felid of insider capitalism. The free market protected football to a certain degree as you mentioned during the 70s etc…but when neo-libralization entered the picture through tv rights deals, agents fees, and institutional leeches like the Premier League, UEFA, and the footballers themselves there was only one thing that was ever going to happen: the money gets sucked out of the game and goes to these other entities. It’s up to the fans to attempt to correct the system just as it’s up to the citizenry to correct the mis-deeds of the gentry in government. There’s no way to stop greedy institutions when you allow them to regulate themselves and dictate the terms of our grievances.
I agree with Brent I’ve no idea what all that means but it sounds good to me 🙂
Being a bit of a special case, Eurostar takes most of my matchday money, they abuse their most frequent customers even more and give me very very little joy in return. Very annoyed at the tickets increase of course. If they could put Champions League game at the same price as carling Cup, that might help;) I do however realise it makes no sense in the context of a SC…
Or ST even
Excellent post on a real issue, although nothing new. Everyone in a position of power has been criticizing agents for a while now as they’re driving the market to insanely high prices.
In 2-3 seasons from now we will make much more money (I estimated it at 40 millions quids) from new commercial contracts. Still I doubt the club will lower the ticket prices by then: we’re barely breaking even now and I our wage bill will skyrocket with the golden generation (Wilshere, Ramsey, Walcott and the upcoming ones) claiming star wages once we rack in some silverware.
The fair play rules can’t come into action too soon…
@Zico: I paid a season ticket to attend one game this season, I guess the way airline tickets are rising next season I’ll have to pay 2 for that same game even after the 6.5% hike!
Great write up holic. Not sure I have ever agreed with you more.
The increase in prices is a poor decision and the timing is even worse. I have not checked my season ticket renewal but already know that it will be in four figures for the first time. We now have the most expensive tickets in the land. The cheapest season ticket is now a pound more than the most expensive season ticket at Old Trafford. Granted we get cup games for that but it does make you think.
I find the words of Gazidis very concerning. He talks of an unsustainable level of spending on transfers???? That will set alarm bells ringing with many. I will leave the discussion about our signings for another day but all I would say is that if you pay top dollar then you expect a top dollar performance. You expect to turn up and see the best. In recent years we must have effectively broken even in transfer dealings so it is not and unfair question when we ask what is the money being spent on.
My match day arrangements like yours will no doubt take a pounding. Like many the increase will have to be absorbed elsewhere. The programme is likely to go along with the pre match pint at the ground. It will be a shame as it may well mean that a home game for me means turning up 15 minutes before kick off and leaving straight at the end.
The gap between the players and fans has never been greater. In times of economic constraints many are earning vast sums of money to play for a club that we would all play for for free. Our manager reportedly earns 6 million a year. The majority of senior players earn 50k a week plus. Many are on a great deal more. We have a captain that earns more than 100k a week and wants to play somewhere else? When there appears to be a lack of effort or a lack of caring for the club is it any wonder that some of the locals get restless? The increase in costs will inadvertently increase accountability.
It’s funny because as I have been typing this I have just heard on Sky a statement from the club reminding us all that there are still 40,000 on the waiting list. This just smacks of bully boy tactics. Pay up or let someone else have your seat. Thanks Arsenal. I would love to know the figures at the start of the season as to how many did not renew and how many really are on the waiting list?
I will of course renew. I have no choice. It is like an addiction. But beware Arsenal. With the current economic climate and the price increase this season as a season ticket holder may well be my last.
I hope that many who have heard about these increases share similar views. If you do then perhaps you will now realise one of the reasons I have been vocal in my defence of the home support. When you are faced with such rises then do not be surprised if people are vocal with their opinions. Hopefully those who have been critical in previous weeks may now have a bit more of a lenient stance when deciding to condemn those who do fork out these prices to support their beloved team.
Onwards and upwards I guess. A nice glass of red please holic. Got anything on special offer? I need to save a few pennies…….
Steve T: I totally understand your views.
That being said our players are paid less than they could be somewhere else. RvP, Cesc, Nasri, Sagna, Clichy, Walcott, LJW, Ramsey and probably others would earn more if they went to play for clubs with bottomless pockets. That’s the sad reality of football and although I share your views we have to be honest and acknowledge that Gazidis has a point.
When you think about it, it’s mental so see our club spending half as much every season than Citeh or Chelski while having many times over the support base, only because the owners are authorized to splash their looted cash.
Where Gazidis is wrong though is the timeline of the change. It will take 3 years before the Fair Play rules will really force the thieves to play by the books.
A big part of the problem comes after a series of tripe displays recently that haven’t been any fun to watch. I will reluctantly pay more if I’m enjoying what I see. I haven’t felt this way recently. I would also feel better about this if I felt Wenger had learned the lessons from the past 6 seasons and would use the additional funds raised to purchase a few top quality experienced players to strengthen the squad but I know he won’t. So the dilemma is whether to give up the season ticket and go back on the queue once Wenger gets the boot, or to hang on with gritted teeth while we see more of the same.
@West Upper: you know he won’t? Hell yes you should know if you’d spent only 5 minutes looking at the books of the club. We only have 75% or so left of the money raised by the sales of Toure and Adebayor, we’re likely not going to break even this season and we’ll have to renegotiate contracts with Nasri, Clichy, Arshavin and Van Persie.
There is money for one expensive player and that’s stretching it already.
If anyone should have learned something from the last 6 seasons it’s you and all the others who claim to be supporters but can be bothered for one second to understand the financial constraints of the club. In the last 6 years we spent barely more than Tottenham, less than Liverpool and half what Chelski and Citeh spent. Do you think that with their budget Spurs or Liverpool have any chance to win the league?
Let me drop a hint for your dilemma about next season: we’ll still be 4th-5th spenders in the league and our budget will still be 50-70% that of our top competitors. Now what’s the likelihood of a club at such a financial disadvantage to win loads of silverware? I’ll let you guess.
There are certainly issues in the team but the main one you face personally is that your expectations are way out of line with the reality.
And the ticket prices are certainly not helping facing those facts, that’s for sure.
Morning holics,
well this is the million dollar question we all have to ask ourselves don’t we, do we put-up or shut-up.
Now for me I feel I’m quite well placed to give my point of view here, as this was something I took a stance on a few years back, actually after I moved out of London & realised the extra cost + commitment of supporting a team on a weekly basis from afar + the extra cost of taking two boys whenever I make the journey.
I more often then not these days watch the game on tv or the net, wherever it’s live (if I’m not working) then make that £300+ round trip with both boys, because quite frankly I just can’t justify that too many weeks of the season.
So for me this is where football needs to look deep into itself long term, but quite frankly the greedy bastards presently playing the game don’t care a hoot where the next generation of fans are coming from.
In my case I have done my part & both my boys are gooners, if not MAD gooners like WE all grew up as anyway. But how are they going to get that passion for the game of seeing their team @ home week-in week-out, at the current prices being asked for by the top prem teams?
Now £1000 a year is not a lot of money these days for a young working lad, but we all know the passion starts years before that being taken as a young kid to your home teams ground on match day & all that entails, it just worries me that less & less youngsters are getting that experience enough @ our place these days.
Or am I speaking from a purely personal point of view here?
@Matt
Thanks for that, really. Some fans would need to understand that. Yes it is extremely hard to look past the surface of our football matters but when we do sit down and take a good look, we are doing as well as we can with our current constraints and whatnot.
The problem with the new generation of supporters is that they/we are spoiled by our recent…well, not so recent success that we think that we DESERVE it every season.
Nothing wrong with aiming for the top, nothing wrong with feeling disappointed, nothing wrong with having a moan, nothing wrong with asking more from players when we feel they aren’t giving it all.
Did we appreciate that Arshavin came on on Sunday and made really really good tackles that probably equaled the total amount of tackles and interceptions he probably made throughout the season?
Anyway, to not move away further from Holic’s point. It is sad to see that more and more of the “proper” fans are being priced out. It’s something that Ivan Gazidis has to think about. Yes and to agree with some of you, being at a proper Gooner pub is bloody awesome as well. I’m just fortunate to have one to go to all the way here in Singapore.
They increaseed my subscription fee by $4……..I mean my thieving PayTV company 🙂
All am saying is, love is becoming quite expensive.
I’m a Gooner living in India and am at equal emotional pain over the increase in ticket prices. The Stan takeover meant new lucrative sponsorship deals which would rake in the moolah we had been missing on. So I don’t see the justification behind this increase because Gooners already pay the highest in the country to watch their team play.
Gazidis also mentioned increased transfer fees as one of the reasons but I don’t remember Arsenal being a big player in the transfer market for the last 4-5 seasons. This price increase is preposterous and unjustifiable. I’ll be very sad if we don’t do any dealings this summer which are commensurate with our title ambitions.
Any beer will do!
Another excellent post, sir. Being implicitly mentioned was also excellent; I should be world-famous within a week.
/the £70.15 man
Top post Holic!
I also agree with everyone who has contributed here, I’m 34 work as an IT technician have a family to support which means I can not afford to go to every game for sure. I would love to but simply I can’t!
As I don’t go to many games anyway this increase will not affect me as much, but someone like Steve T it certainly will and I’m a little worried already.
Gazdis mentioned that the club had to go ahead with the increase to sustain transfer market and wages, now this is rather confusing because we thought Le Boss had money to spend during transfer windows and with those comments it certainly sounds like he never really had the cash to spend and Peter Hill Wood told us lies. His statement doesn’t come accross very well one bit. He also seems to forget that we also have to spend on travel, food, beer of course when travelling to a game, forget about buying few gifts in club shop beacuse you are looking at approx £150 done on the day.
Excellent post ‘holic
Gave me a lot of perspective about the fan with a season ticket. We better win something next season so that our club can review the ticketing costs. I mean, why can’t players/manager/board take a pay cut?
Also, us complaining about our home support should understand that fans who pay a lot to watch the Arsenal have a right to show their frustrations. I wouldn’t say our home support is the best, but I understand entirely why it cannot be, with us having won fuckall for 6 years now.
Cheers
Matt@25: I hope everybody reads that post and understands it. The simple truth is that the footballing side of the club is barely breaking even, and this is why the club is trying so hard to pay off all the loans on the Emirates – though I don’t think the club has done themselves any favours by always announcing financial results as major successes because while it is really good to wipe away upwards of £250m in debt in two years, it is not really a success if we break even on the footballing side only thanks to doing a net profit on player transfers.
However, I fully sympathise with the anger felt by the ‘Holic, SteveT and others. Yes, if we want a better team we need more money but the ticket prices are already too high. Fine, adjust for VAT going up or whatever that is out of the hands of the club but the ticket prices are ludicrously high. £70.15 for a seat way up high on behind one of the goals? Give me a fucking break!
Have to go to a meeting now, a cup of tea to go please Mr Barman!
Apologies for off topic, but thought I’d share this to cheer everyone up
http://newsthump.com/2011/05/03/man-united-set-to-recall-howard-webb-for-crucial-chelsea-clash/
Actually sent to me by a Manure fan (residing in Dorking) – who says they can’t laugh at themselves!|?
CG, When does humor actually get funny? When it’s very close to the truth!
Dr. C
Very good, enjoyed that! I see that the fan you were referring to is based in the heartland on Manure support.
Drink, medicinal or otherwise?
Catalan, if you looked in the mirror and saw two heads, you may laugh at yourself, as well. Especially if you went on to count your fourteen fingers…..
Dorking, eh?
Personally, I think one of the best things our club could do to help us supporters is open up a ‘low-cost’, standing area (say where the away support section is now) and leave all the tickets available for sale no more than one week in advance of the match with a guaranteed 20% of the standing tickets available on match day only from The Armoury. Open to all-comers, price £25 ea. Review the scheme mid season if not sold-out week-in, week-out. It’s a modest financial risk on the club’s part but the reward being that it would help to seed a new generation of young Gooners who could just turn up on match-day (with their dads), pay and get-in. Fair?
Possibly a good idea, TS, definitely selling out game in game out, but would also create absolute mayhem.
See the internet situation already when the expensive tickets go on sale to Reds…. 😉
Would Gadiz pay 1/10 of his wage on a ticket 100 thousand pounds for a season ticket 4 grand a game and thats for someone on 7oo pound a week what about people on £350 thats 8 grand a game and they reckon they UNDERSTAND !!!!!
Matt
I’m afraid I don’t agree, when you look at the combined spend on transfers AND wages (which Wenger manages to) we are near the top. One way to generate funds is to get rid of a few of the under-performers (Denilson, Diaby, Rosicky et al) who are on big money.
Also given their form this season would it be be a good idea to give big pay rises to Clichy & Ashavin to keep them or sell them on while we can and use the money on replacements? I think the latter approach makes more sense if they mistakenly believe they deserve more.
I’m not asking for a lot of expensive trophy signings just a small number of good buys in a few key positions.
Hi lads, just wanted to throw my view in there as young – 18 – fan, im more than a little upset by this rise as I’ve frankly not been able to afford to go to a game since my parents stopped taking me when i was about 11 – i suppose you could read that as until i had to start paying out of my own pocket really. I would also hazard that i’m far from the minority amongst my friends, its a far more common occurence for us to watch a game at someones house than for any of us to go to a game these days; when i was a schoolboy i obviously couldnt afford a 50+ quid ticket and now that im a student that hasnt changed at all, i doubt it will change until my mid twenties or atleast the end of university, at which stage there seems a chance my interest will have died anyway due to a lack of exposure.
I realise that the rise isnt huge, but i entirely agree with the point that whilst it isnt a huge increase, the start price was already pretty expensive and if you want to get young fans in something has to change – my parents, and im sure those of many other younger fans, have no interest in the game – thus once it stops becoming something that you do with your parents and rather a hobby of your own it becomes financially impossible to actually go to the games. Ultimately i suppose damaging the long term fan base of the club.
TS, Absolutely get those away fans into the upper tier and give the Arsenal supporters access to better seats. It’s a win all around or the Arsenal and it’s one of the conundrums this wasn’t thought of before now.
Yes please TS…. to chase down the lunch time ticklers
Zico @37 = I’d either laugh or lay off of the absinthe for a while….
Nasri – truth is always stranger than fiction!
Nice post ‘holic.
I agree that the gulf between club/players and supporters is greater then ever and growing at an alarming rate. Our “heroes” live in a different world then us, long gone are the days that you could catch a glimps of a player down the local watering hole or around town.
I remember meeting George Graham in the Kings Head (on the Holloway Rd) while he had a meeting with a potential new signing (one Mr Alan Smith) they were both more then willing to stop their procedings to sign autographs and have a drink with my group. Has anyone got a similar story to tell about a recent encounter? I doubt it.
I’ve been out of London for quite a few years now and the prices have sky rocketed to beyond ridiculous. I have the greatest respect for the fans with kids who are trying to raise them the Arsenal way as many of us were, by bringing them to as many home games as possible, I don’t know how many of you manage to do it. Football has always traditionally been the game of the working class, but how many jobs are you going to need to have before you can afford these absurd prices?
Clubs would do well to remember that they are nothing without the fans, I’m not claiming to know the solution to the priceing problem, but surely something must be done, unless the club wants only corperate spectators at matches.
Cider for me please guv.
@ TS 38 cloud cookoo land. GMS
Lots of good stuff in all of the above, “Holics. Not too much I can add without being repetitive, but I’d like to contribute a couple of points.
– I read “Soccernomics” recently. Quite good. The primary takeaway from many researched words in there is that THE key success driver is player retention and, of-course, this is achieved primarily by highest salaries. Record spenders on transfers rarely achieve long term success – unless they couple it with an ability to pay and retain great players. Barca, Madrid and Citeh all come to mind for different reasons.
– Arsenal appears to have bought heavily into the high wage/low transfer expenditure model for success and I sincerely hope that the world class talent that we have today is encouraged to stay, and expanded.
– It doesn’t add up for me to hear quibbles about underperformance and no trophies and then hear beefs about how much Cesc, Nasri, Song, Van Persie, Ramsey, and Wilshere are paid. Most likely they could achieve more elsewhere. It is a VERY competitive world and the playing field isn’t level.
– Football is, of-course, now as much a business as it is a sport or type of entertainment. Like it or not, we supporters are all “pawns/punters/call us what you like” in a very big MARKET. As in any market, we have a choice on IF to spend and on WHAT to spend. THe level of demand generated by the product we wish to purchase (in this case seats to watch Arsenal play live) correlates directly to the price we pay. At the end of the day, we can watch football live at the Orient just along the road for a fraction of the price if that’s what we choose to value and buy.
– In some regards, because the board hears our cries for “more silver” they are duty bound to respond to these cries by maximising the return on the very attractive product they market. Why should they EVER undersell? There is clearly more demand than can be satisfied. In most markets, this results directly in higher prices for higher returns that are then reinvested (in players to win the silver so many crave).
– The harsh reality is that the nature of the “real” fan is changing. In some ways that’s a pity although I don’t miss one of the louts who think nothing of pissing down the back of my leg, pissed out of his head in days gone by when “real fans only spent five bob to get in.
– Gazidis could be excused for taking a “tough tit” attitude – “It’s the Rolling Stones folks – buy your tickets now because if you don’t, somebody else will”. The fact that he’s expressing the concerns he is, is encouraging and I would like to see Arsenal managing better banding of prices in a creative solution to matching marketplace reality with fans ability to pay.
– Of-course few markets allow prices to rise unchecked. Some alternative comes along and Gazidis and co therefore need to manage all of their revenue options in concert. My expectation is that future years will see ticket prices in the stadium becoming an ever less significant part of the income stream. Ultimately only 65,000 people of the 10 billion (0.00000065%) who will be on the planet by 2030 can watch a match live. The richer income stream is elsewhere brothers – as long a pirate streams can be “managed”.
– I’ll be buying my first ever season tickets next year (I hope), so I’m not happy they’ll cost more but I’m also realistic about what’s driving the increase. And no, I don’t think selling Denilson and Co will change the marketplace fundamentals.
– Finally, I think Arsenal will sell and will buy this summer – but more on that later, Holics. OK – back outside to finish planting my geraniums – the sun’s shining Stateside.
TS@38.
It works in Germany, where stadiums have a standing terrace area, Dortmund’s Westfalenstadion and Schalke 04’s Veltins-Arena being the perfect examples. These stadiums also generate a briliant atmospere, I encourage anyone who has the chance to visit one of these stadiums to do so, a thouroly enjoyable experience.
Holic any chance you can pass Dave (42) comments onto Gazidis, so he can explain to US where our next generation of supports are coming from?
I was impressed with that drink too, Lee. The issue will get a mention again in the next day or so in another place. The message will get to Arsenal.
BtM agree with just about all of your post, however, remember with the introduction of squad caps it’s not just an economically atractive proposition to clear out the deadwood such as Denilson, Diaby and Rosicky but a tactical necessity.
Finally, I hope you are right about some buying and selling this Summer, hopefully not involving Fabregas.
Getting back on topic the lack of silverware for 6 years and the poor recent performances have caused this rise to create far more angst than the board probably expected.
‘holics, I nearly forgot. Just to ensure the dark side don’t pip one of us to the awards can you make sure you go and vote for Arseblog in two categories linked here please.
Best Blog
http://www.epltalk.com/2011-best-epl-club-blog/
Best Blogger
http://www.epltalk.com/2011-best-epl-blogger/
Thanks all.
Some interesting points indeed. Dave makes a great point. I take my kids when I can but the fact is they get to see about 5 games each a year. I normally hope and pray for a home tie in the carling cup and if possible in the school holidays. I have no idea what either will do when they are standing on their own two feet.
BTM. You make an interesting point about the O’s. I do actually take my two to Orient a few times a season. Why? Because all 3 of us go for a combined total of £25.
It’s funny. Because of the price rise and various other goings on at the club I find myself for the first time ever as an Arsenal fan asking if I actually get value for money? I never ever thought that would happen.
Lee, now he has announced it elsewhere, I can tell you arseblogger and I cover that, among other topics, on the two hundredth arsecast in the morning.
Arsenal,
All we can ask is…
“Because of the price rise and various other goings on at the club I find myself for the first time ever as an Arsenal fan asking if I actually get value for money?”
That’s how markets work, Steve. If you had an unlimited amount of money, you’d be able to satisfy all of your wishes and aspirations for yourself and the kids. The fact that you (and very many others don’t) forces you to make choices. Arsenal’s “gamble” is that the product they have on offer will be SO compelling that you will be able to resist the 25 pound pull of the O’s.
For sure, if they can start winning silver, the offer will have more appeal for everyone. To win, we all agree they need a couple more players and that will need to be funded (likely by more than the residue from Ade and Toure)…..and that brings us right back to the ticket price discussion.
I have the funniest feeling though that you and the kids will be fixtures at The Emirates for a wee while yet. And Gazidis should be very grateful. You have an opinion that I always enjoy (if not absolutely agree with).
Ah, BtM, good to see you.
We may care to consider the club re-aligning its pricing strategies to make tickets available to the very young (the future) and the very old (always been) whilst still fleecing, I mean charging, sensible premiums to those who have the disposable income that will accommodate their desire to see their club in the flesh, and the clubs need to milk the golden hen.
I do understand the need to address that balance. Not everybody is upset, but there are some who are being alienated. The club needs to acknowledge the need to attempt to resolve that conundrum.
@West Upper: “when you look at the combined spend on transfers AND wages (which Wenger manages to) we are near the top.”
4th is indeed near the top. But then so is 5th and 6th (Pool and Spurs). On the other end 50% less than Chelski or City in pounds spent this season and 30% less than United that is very very far from the top.
Citeh’s wage bill is not yet known this season but by all accounts it won’t be that far off 200mils and Chelski’s will still be well north of 150mils. For reference ours is around 110. I don’t need to go into transfers, everyone is painfully reminded of the gap every 6 months.
Now about Clichy, he may not be to your liking but he only has a phone call to give to earn twice as much at Citeh next year. remember Ashley Cole? Which better LB do you know off will come for 50K/week (not even sure Clichy is paid that much anyway)?
It doesn’t detract from the fact that the ticket rise is stupid even if logical from a financial perspective. Other have expressed it better than me already. I just like to point the extremely bad timing which doesn’t inspire confidence in the business acumen of Gazidis’ team.
@BtM: “Arsenal appears to have bought heavily into the high wage/low transfer expenditure model for success”
Actually that’s not really accurate. We are not competitive at the top at all, look at these wage numbers from 2009: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A55452242, and I’m pretty sure that across the board we pay less than our competitors by a significant margin. What weighs on the wage bill is our impressive roaster of youngsters. One by one they don’t cost much but when it’s 50 of them…
Arsenal have one model they aspire to, it’s the Cruyff/Barcelona example: an academy that produces the best youngsters in the country to make the nucleus of a team completed with the occasional excellent player from outside.
We’re half-way there, we’re missing the 40mils a season to buy one/two great players to add to the team.
Steve T – Your ticket has just “broken the four figure barrier”.
Mine was priced this season at £1825 in Block 91. The increase will take it to around £1950.
For Grade A games it is calculated at £94.
It is a really good seat, but I did not choose it.
It was the only one on offer to me when the stadium opened.
As you know, there is no option to downgrade to a cheaper seat.
I will carry on with it, for now, but 3 people within 6 seats of me at the ManUre game, said that they are either giving up or trying to rent out their tickets for next season.
I was offered all 3 of them so that I could take my daughter more often.
I would love to but cannot afford to do it.
Who can afford to do this? Where will the next generation of fans come from ?
Folk who cannot go to games when they are young, are far less likely to take up the habit as adults when they have mortgages, student fees/loans, and rocketing bills to pay too.
You are dead right, that fans are ready to express their anger at lazy, astronomically paid players, especially in the light of these crazy prices.
The wages that demand these prices will be our downfall in the summer transfer market too.
Who is going to pay any kind of fee, plus salaries well in excess of £50,000 per week for the likes of Denilson, Bendtner, Eboue, Almunia etc. etc. etc.
If they don’t move on and create room in the squad, we will not be able to bring in the experienced players we need, either due to sheer numbers, or due to having to pay any new players, plus a whole load of Bogardes who refuse to clear off.
My worst case scenario is that Arsenal will have to pay a share of the salaries for some of these players to go and play somewhere else, or just give them all away.
This will be the consequence of paying young developing players far too much money before they have actually achieved anything.
And so to bed. Any room on that Happy Train !!
Matt, Interesting to note re the 2009 top ten salaries, about half of them (Robinho and crew) no longer play for the same club. Could it be proof that money doesn’t buy happiness?
Trev,
You sound like the exact type of supporter I have been tipping my hat to for a long time @ the new stadium, one that has been forced into paying over the odds for their season ticket, trapped in the knowledge that if they give up that ticket, they will probably NEVER get a chance to be in that position again.
Market forces or Blackmail you guy’s make-up your own minds???
Oh if I was you I’d buy the three tickets & become a professional tout…
As for your assessment of Lazy players on the pay roll, I’m not totally convinced of that (apart from Arshavin) as he’s proved when his heads right as it seems to have been the last few weeks, he’s still one hell of a player.
But the others you mentioned for me are AW mistakes, never really being good enough to play or push for a first team spot @ The Ars.
I said a week or so ago on here that AW has saddled us with some players not up to the job & on real money, those 3 you mentioned being just some of them.
I’ve found you tend to have to follow-up a statement like that with I’m a AW fan or you get torn off a strip, WELL I’M, but that don’t stop me also seeing HIS management failing’s too.
As you say Trev, who is going to come in & pay £50,000 a week for Denilson, Bendtner, Eboue. I refuse to believe Almunia is paid anywhere near that type of money, if he is there is still hope for me to make a good living out of the game!!!
Matt – @BtM: “Arsenal appears to have bought heavily into the high wage/low transfer expenditure model for success” Actually that’s not really accurate.
It is all relative of-course. I wasn’t trying to suggest we pay highest, we can’t afford to (there are exceptions, Thierry Henry was highest paid BPL player at one point) but Arsenal does aspire to retain its best players by rewarding them extremely well. Absolute spend is a poorer indicator of intent than some percentage of what can be afforded w/o deep debt or sugar daddy funding.
And yes – AW is trying really hard to retain Wilshere, Song, Ramsey, Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie and nurture other new young talent in the Barcelona model. Based on only Ashley Cole, Jack Wilshere in regular BPL first team positions and Kieran Gibbs, Nick Bendtner, Frimpong and Lansbury in the wings, Aresenal hasn’t quite reached he Barca level. Add inspired early purchases like Cesc, Robin, Kolo, Ade, Aaron, Nasri, Theo, to the mix and the picture looks much brighter, so, it’s Cruyff with an Arsene twist. AW does early purchases better than anybody and I can’t wait to see Miyachi in a red strip.
Trev, I think you’ll see three teams VERY willing to take Deni, Nick and Eboue in the summer. Two are Italian, one is English. Watch this space. 50k will not inhibit any of the moves if Arsenal agree to the deals. (I’m really hoping to see Melo feature as part of the Deni deal).
@63 BtM.
“AW does early purchases better than anybody and I can’t wait to see Miyachi in a red strip.”
Tune into the Ere Divisie. (Feyenoord play in red too. ;))
Seriously though, the kid looks the part, unfortunatly he missed last weeks game due to flu, but he has made an impact in every game I’ve seen him play and is already a hero in the Kuip.
Stan and Ivan are both missing the point and could have started on the right foot with the fans. Instead, they released an announcement saying “we understand – but…”. I feel for people like Trev who have been forced to pay for a seat they might not even have wanted, but are too afraid not to pay for it so they don’t lose their chance for a season ticket.
Something’s definitely wrong with this whole scheme, and if there’ll be one thing that goes through in the protest I’d rather it’d be the complaints about the membership scheme.
BtM, I know you like Melo, but I’d much rather have Scott Parker (David Gold just said that if they go down, he’d be sold) as a replacement for Song than Melo.
Scott Parker is exactly the kind of character (not necessarily player) we need in this squad.
I’d rather have Song as a replacement for Song. And then someone else to ‘compete for a place’ with him.
I’m not really a big fan of either Melo or Scott Parker, but I don’t really have a name to throw into the ring either, to be fair.
Lee @ 62 – constructive criticism of AW and just about everything is tolerated and indeed welcome here based on my experience – I can think of at least one blog where it isn’t though so maybe you got confused?
BTW I thought your original post above was excellent and a portentous warning for football administrators not just at Arsenal but generally.
Is the MC open, zico?
Take off the tenner for the members pack, if you have one, and red and silver memberships have gone up fifty percent.
Unbelievable.
Don’t think it’s 50% on the red, to be honest, ‘holic.
Can’t remember how much i paid last year for Red Lite but I think it was more than £24. I’ll have to check, it may still have been around that.
Definitely remember paying a bit more than £30 for full red a couple of years ago (£32?£33), it is now £36, so can’t have changed much, about a 10% increase at most.
I’m guessing that’s the point your making though with ‘take off the tenner’? ;P
I think the disparity between full and lite might have been reduced (i.e not much change on full, big increase on Lite), and maybe Silver has been increased more. As I said, I thought it was same as Red, now it seems to be much more.
So much for ‘free’ ATVO chucked in though, if you were a ‘Lite’ Member.
THAT’s what you’re saying right?
@68 & 69. Ollie and ‘holic.
Medicine cabinet open or not, that’s a hard pill to swallow.
I read today that the cost of ATVO is now included in a season ticket, dont know if that’s true.
Also read, disappointingly that Miyaichi will have to stay at Feyenoord next season coz of work permit shit. Don’t know if that’s true either.
Ollie, I checked first. Red membership was £20. This year it is £31. That is over fifty percent.
Last year silver was £26 (£36 with pack) and this year is £39 (£49 with pack). That is fifty percent on the membership portion.
They are getting effectively an extra game of gate receipts without hosting the game, and guess which poor sods are forking out not to see it?
I think I forgot that the price I mentioned were for us overseas, ‘holic, possibly different from UK.
I’ll check the actual price I paid last season for lite tonight then.
(I’m practically sure about the above 30 for full red membership from a few years ago).
Yes, SR. ATVO or whatever its new name is is apparently included in ALL memberhips from Red to Platinum and Diamond-encrusted.
I got the advert for the new shirt in the mail. Dont like it, wont buy it, not worth £45. But I do like the polo shirt that Walcott is wearing, will buy it, £30.
I haste to add the in the usual cunty fashion, the £36/£31 they now quote me are possibly subject to the usual booking fees/overseas extra, surprised that they quote me the same £31 as you in fact.
Just went online to look into renewing my membership. The bastards aren’t even gonna sned out new cards. You have to keep the old one.
The point about the TV service being included in the membership is that everybody in the family pays for it under the new set-up. Before only Dad needed to pay for it and everybody could watch.
This is stealth tax, Arsenal style.
Er, you OK, SR? It has always been thus since we moved, no?
Very true, ‘holic 78.
Mr Holic,
Good point. Coz it’s only me in the family who is a supporter, I didnt pick that one up.
The straw that broke the camel’s back?
‘Holic @ #78
I took out ATVO before I bought a Red membership. The email I received about ‘Arsenal Player’ says that I will no longer be taxed the monthly subscription for ATVO provided that I renew my Red Membership which is due for renewal later this year sometime. So actually, I’m going to save a few quid this year on that particular deal. However, I do plan to rent part of a season ticket from a friend so my Gooner outgoings will rise 100s of per cent next season.
Great Arsecast today. Really worried too about how the next generation of Gooners will be nutured if costs can’t be brought into line. I’m sure this applies to most/all Premiership teams and their supporters. 20 years from now, what will crowds be like? Full of geriatric access and loos on every aisle while surgical supports are adjusted to prevent hernias when a few of the ‘young’uns’ can muster up the energy to sing a song or two?
H2H & Ollie,
I have the MC keys although I’m afraid the cupboard is bare 🙁
zico will explain…
Trev @ #60,
Great post straight from the heart. There’s always room on the HT for good supporters. You’re seat is reserved and the only cost is being an Arsenal fan 😉
nutured
Did you mean ‘nurtured’ or…’neutered’, TS? 😉
You made me realise I’ll save money, actually!
No chance of me saving on match attendance unless I don’t attend the matches though 😉
I’m sure I score high in the Red members attendance charts :O
Ah, Ollie. Thanks for the correction. Nurtured, definitely nurtured.
Holic, where’s that spell checker?
Your travel costs alone must more than a season ticket, surely?
Waaaaaaaaaaaay more, I’m afraid, TS.
I think I might have to consider booking trips far more in advance, rather than wait until I actually buy the game ticket and then wait a bit more to decide on day trip or overnight stay.
Would probably save me a fortune, I dread to check the increase in travel costs over the last few seasons.
Stan has made his mandatory offer to the remaining shareholders. £11,750 per share as reported. the document is a mind numbing 64 pages.
Here is a good bit.
The Arsenal Independent Directors note, in particular, KSE’s and Mr Kroenke’s confirmation that the offer will not be funded by way of any debt finance (bank loans, payment in kind loans or other debt or quasi-debt interest bearing obligations) for which the payment of interest on, repayment of, or security for any liability (contingent or otherwise) will depend on the business of Arsenal….we are confident that Mr Kroenke will be a safe
custodian of Arsenal’s future.
http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/may_11/gun__1304684364_Offer_Document.pdf
KSE and Mr Kroenke have stated that they have no current expectation that sufficient acceptances of the
Offer will be received such that the statutory thresholds set out in the Companies Act for squeezing-out
minority Arsenal Shareholders will be reached (in which case non-accepting Arsenal Shareholders would
not be required to sell their Arsenal Shares).
Ollie, what exactly is the difference between Full and Lite? Is it only the membership pack? For me it’s £36 for full and £31 for Lite, iirc I paid £35 last year for the full membership (I hadn’t actually noticed that there is two levels…).
‘holic, having checked now, my full membership was £33 quid a couple of years ago, and my Lite membership £28 last season. Already more than I thought.
So if the price quoted are right, I still make that about 10.7% increase only. As I said, that’s an ‘if’. I’ll tell you when I actually renew my membership. 😉
I know there are direct debit stuff that are cheaper though, but not accessible to me unfortunately.
I suspect the £20 was the DD thing? While the £31 isn’t?
As I said though, surprised I’m quoted the same £31 as you for Lite membership.
Hi Lars, yes, as far as I’ve noticed having gone from one to the other, it’s only the membership pack that is the difference.
Cheers Ollie – you just saved me a fiver!
There is a load of stuff about loan notes but that is a tax efficient instrument for disposal of assets, it’s not anything to do with Arsenal taking out loans.
I got about half way through, then died of boredom.
Barman, vodka&red bull for SR then!
Accounting 101? I thought this was Goonerholic?
The Zeppelin post at 81 is something I can relate to …
Well I ordered the new polo shirt as a Fathers day present to myself. £30 plus £5 postage. How can it cost £5 to post a shirt 60 miles?
SR, It costs a lot for the high-fiber oats for the mules.
Of course, high-fiber, probably organic too.
Ollie @ 68 and TS @ 83
Err, well, there was a sudden rush on happy pills after the 108th minute of a recent match, and then when they ran out, well the punters were just screaming gimme, gimme, gimme and me and zico Management were rushed off our feet “pumping in the penicillin” if you get my drift…..
Anyway, True Storey only asked me to return the keys to the MC, how was I to know he wanted me to do a stock take as well?
In these inflationary times, we may all need to cut down our intake in any event or at least roll our own 😉
And speaking of all things inflationary, how much is Red Membership gonna cost me this time round – I didn’t know there were too levels either – must have been typical AFC small print I missed.
Don’t know where you are, FR, but you should see the posting rates for overseas. It’s beyond belief.
And it’s not like, say, Paris is further than John o’Groats.
I only buy stuff when I pop into the shop now.
FR? SR even.
Ha, zico, here you are!
I’m going to have to start growing things again like in the good old days.
In fact, when I last ordered a shirt through this here page is when I realised that it was cheaper for me and also better for him to get anything direct from the shop and buy ‘holic a pint rather than let him have the pittance he was getting for me buying through a link here. 😉
Having gone until the checkout point, I seem to see no extra charge.
I was not offered the Direct Debit option, don’t know if it’s due to my oversees status.
What seems to have happened is that they have aligned the membership price for UK people with the membership price to oversees.
Now, I don’t think there should have been a different price in the first place, especially for the light one, but that would explain why ‘holic sees a big difference while I don’t.
The other question is : does the rebate for using Direct Debit still actually exist?
Again, this seems more of a UK thing I can’t make sense of (my ‘credit card’ is direct debit anyway…., but perhaps they’ve scrapped it too?
If they have, that would explain (again, not justify) why some people see a 50% increase while other see a 10% increase.
They’ve kind of simplified things but….by aligning it to the highest price.
Which is slightly mischievous, especially when you don’t explain that bit.
I have no idea what proportion of red members live overseas, but I’d still expect most to be based in the UK?
What’s all this oversees nonsense? I don’t even have the excuse of auto correction on the PC.
over (land and) sea (and Leicester)
Heh, Ollie – you’re on form tonight 😉
Beers are on me (or maybe Lars since he has just been given consultancy services and saved a £5).
Cool, thanks zico (or Lars and his undrainable tab 🙂 ) haven’t got much to drink here, saving myself for tomorrow’s barbecue.
zico, my tab in here must have gone through the roof by now so that fiver that Ollie helped me save will come in handy!
Lars, please put a few on my tab. I’m feeling flush enough and the day of reckoning is nowhere on the calendar which could be my lack of prowess in accounting due to either plain ineptitude or just poor eyesight. Tellingly, they have started calling me four eyes. ::<)
Lars,
If we combine your tab, Ollie’s travel costs and the replenishment bill for the MC, maybe we could put in a counter offer to KSE?
Just a thought 😉
Holic got to listen to the arseblogger aided by yourself very entertaining & informative, he calls a spade a spade or a cunt a cunt in his case. Not what you would call a Shawcross fan is he?
Thought you made some very good points on the direction the board has taken in the last week or, lets hope someone is listening…….
zicoinexile,
I was broadly speaking yes, but I have also been “told off” for perceived AW bashing on here too, although in the main you are allowed an opinion on here (of AW) as apposed to other sites, it’s the best I have found for insisive debate.
Storey, you might be on to something there…
Well, that´s sad. Another childhood hero gone. RIP Seve.
Indeed Catalan,
Seve was three months younger than I. To our generation he was one of the all-time giants of sport. Made European golf the golden path that others tread today.
Rest in peace, signor genius.
‘holic is still alive? Hooray though, hope the dinner was good!
Tapas in a couple of weeks (well possibly next week for me too), so something Spanish will be on the menu, big man!
I was never much into golf, but I’ll raise a glass with you and CG in honour of one of your heroes.
On my tab, as Lars isn’t here. Or is he?
Maverick,Genius,but above all a proper man and Role Model,
Rip Seve.
News from someone who received a paper form for membership renewas is that the Direct Debit is still offered there for a £10 discount.
If true, things definitely aren’t that bad.
However, the internet doesn’t seem to offer it, which is not a good sign :s
Anyway, this DD thing still has to be checked with the club I guess then, but hold your horses for now.
Either way, it’s just another giant PR cock-up, true.
Actually, from the club website:
Silver & Red members who purchased their membership via Direct Debit last season please note that your membership will be renewed automatically and therefore you do not need to re-apply, payment will be taken early June, but you will be notified by email prior to this.
So DO NOT FRET or manually renew if you’re on DD.
So to sum up (for reds anyway):
Direct Debit-> Increased to be found out soon when they send you the automatic renewal e-mail
Overseas Members-> about 10%
UK Members -> about 20%
(price now aligned between UK and overseas)