Guest Post – On International Duty North Of The Border With BtM
Jun 7th, 2011 by 'holic
As every Blogger will tell you, this is the hardest time of year to bring you regular content that is not just the same old speculation regurgitated, and so you can only imagine my delight at receiving what follows from the inimitable Bergkamp the Man in response to my own international memories. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have, but then I am familiar with so many of the people, places, and phrases he recounts!
I grew up in Auchtermuchty in the magical, mystical Kingdom of Fife. Well, some would debate whether I’ve actually ever grown up. But bear with me, lets not get diverted at this early stage, throw me a bone, give me the benefit of the doubt if you will.
As those who can track their heritage back to Stirling, and as young Zico of the often promised, but never yet delivered pint, can confirm, The Kingdom is famed “mair fur its gowf than its fitba’”. So we can boast more golf courses than people, but we can rarely boast of European trophies nor even Scottish silverware having found its way into the “mantle fringed wi’ gold”.
That’s not to say that we don’t have Fife teams by the way. We do – at least four in number. There’s DUNFERMLINE, The Pars, once managed by Jock Stein himself with a young Alex Ferguson (yes, the same Slur Alex!) playing centre-forward for him.
Further east we have the mighty EAST FIFE from Methil, for whom the famous “Legs” Fleming scored more goals than Methil’s locals could count (yes, a numeracy problem I’m afraid). And also, right on the Aberdeen to Edinburgh main railway line, Starks Park’s finest, the mighty RAITH ROVERS from Kirkcaldy competed with The Fife Flyers ice-hockey team for patronage.
Go west into the wilds, Zico country these days, and hidden amidst the pit bings and greyhound tracks, in all its glory, stands Central Park, the home of the world renowned COWDENBEATH – more commonly known to the masses as “Cowdenbeath Nil”, for reasons that you won’t need me to explain, and where stock car races draw at least one hundred people – 50 more than Cowden do for a big game.
It will surprise you, I’m sure, to learn that despite this wealth of foot-balling riches right on my own doorstep, my eyes and favours strayed right out of the Kingdom, and away over the River Tay, down the road and the miles, to Europe’s centre of foot-balling excellence – DUNDEE. There, at Dens Park, Scotland’s Bernabeau – the mighty Dark Blues of Dundee F.C. purveyors of football excellence, the Barcelona of their day, exponents of all things unimaginable in baggy shorts, leather studs and dubbined, lace-up leather balls, would entertain for five bob – two and six for kids under 53 years who were too rotund to limbo under the turnstile.
I first beheld the hallowed turf at Dens in Dundee’s famed title winning season 1961-62. The team was studded with MacGalacticos at the time. Alex Hamilton, Andy Penman, “Shug” Robertson, Ian Ure and Alan Gilzean were all in contention for the Scottish national team. “Gay” Gordon Smith had been one of Hibernian’s “famous five” front line and was enjoying the last of the summer wine in a Number 7 Dark Blue shirt. Gilzean was my favourite by a mile in these days – he hadn’t turned to the dark side then – and scored at least once in every game he played. Memorably, in his very last game, before he left for SHL, he scored four just for fun, because he could and because he felt we deserved to see him do it.
But, enough of the preamble – to my tale.
Gillie, Ian Ure and Alex Hamilton were all picked to play for Scotland against the Auld Enemy at Hampden Park in 1963-64. My Grandad, First World War survivor having enlisted at age 14, Auchtermuchty’s finest butcher, and long time Dundee fan decided we had to go. “We’ll tak’ the bus and bide wi’ Uncle Henry”. And we did! And Auntie Mary made me feel like a Prince for two nights.
Glasgow in these days was still the “No Mean City” of Razor King fame. Green and yellow trams trundled down Sauchiehall Street then through the Gorbals on their way west to Hampden. Half a million citizens and every single male called “Jimmie” sported a flat cap – a bunnet – and looked liked he’d polished off a half bottle with his porridge. You had to be a bit careful about what you said and about how you looked at folks. Hiding behind the back page of The Daily Record on the tram was the safest ploy.
I was still four foot two at the time and Grandad decided we’d get there early so that I could get right to the front. We got there early right enough. Up at six a.m. for a mug of “tinkies tea” then out to Hampden for nine-thirty a.m. The gates opened at 1 p.m. We were there a full THREE hours before any one of the 120,000 souls who turned up that day! And guess what? We queued at the ONLY turnstile at Hampden that didn’t open because of a malfunction – the operator was pissed and didn‘t show most likely. When we finally got in, Grandad bent 50,000 punters out of shape by marching me right from the back to the front “Wee fellae coming doon – mind oot noo”
Of the match I can only remember three things.
A huge sense of awe in just being there in the massive bowl of humanity with Scotland, YES – Scotland, in their dark blue and white, right there, in the flesh, in front of my very eyes. And there they were; Hammy, Yogi and Gillie – Christ, Scotland could beat England with just these three! Everbody knew “the English couldnae play!”
Around sixty minutes, a high ball floated from the left into the English goalmouth. It floated in slow motion. Before it left Willie Johnstone’s boot I knew what was going to happen. I’d seen it every single week, at least once, at Dens Park for the entire season. Gilzean leapt at least 12 feet off the ground, and peering down at the English miles below him, winked twice, whistled a chorus of “The Road and The Miles to Dundee” before powering a Gillie special, an unstoppable, perfectly placed, net burster, high into rigging leaving Proud Edward’s army’s remnants scrambling in the mud of a wet Glasgow day.
And the ROAR! I’d read about it. I heard it on the radio. I think I’d even seen it on STV. But to be there and FEEL the full force of 119,999 people roaring in the ecstasy that could only follow a goal against England is something I’ll never ever forget. We murdered them: One –nil! And I can’t recall much more than relating every single second to my primary schoolmates on the following Monday.
That was the first of many memorable moments in dark blue with higher highs and lower lows than even Arsenal at their very best and very worst. These days have gone unfortunately. Dundee can hardly raise eleven pairs of boots, never mind a full team. Scotland are even harder to watch than – whisper it – England and like ‘Holic, my International days are behind me now, better kept as a warm memory than diluted by our current crop.
The Seventies saw a move with Her Nellieness to Essex. Andy Gray was playing for Wolves in London, so I’d better go along and see him. Where? You’ve guessed it. Highbury.
And the rest as they say, is history.
123 Responses to “Guest Post – On International Duty North Of The Border With BtM”
First!! Two Guinness please … one for each hand.
Stingy, give one of them Guinesses to BtM, from me! 😉
Great stuff my Auchtermuchty neebour and kudos to Holic for giving you the stage.
Brings me memories of my first Scotland England game – a certain Mr Clemence (always way over-rated in my book and significantly inferior to Shilton) had a mare.
A pint of eighty shilling for me please Barman.
Oh and I should also say that I too would not cross the street to watch international football these days – its not too hard when you look at who they give caps to – have actually grown to really hate international weekends now.
Thank you for sharing BtM. You sir, are a true ‘holic legend.
I never get tired of hearing stories that include the infamous Central Park, Cowdenbeath. Stock cars and footy. What a motley mix!
Give that man another point! (My imaginary Scottish version of pint.) Excellent story.
Zico – that’s why they call me Stingy 🙂
Barman – BtM deserves nothing less than a double Laugavulin with a wee drop or two of the local spring water.
Speaking of internationals, Ireland just scored off a FK in Italy. 0-1 Ireland 37′ Friendly International. Hunt received a yellow for unfriendliness.
Knowing where my Mother was from, BtM would be even more surprised at the banner I roared out loud at in the Euro 96 meeting.
“BannockBurn 1314, And Never Again!”
Ouch, Holic.
That made me feel all LWC ish.
You’re forgiven of course, you’re from good stock. 😉
Hats off to you BtM you weave a wonderful tale, an artform in itself and commonplace on this blog. The demise of international football has been happening for quite a while but has been quite a fall for the home nations. When you hear the Norn Iron fans singing ” Give us our players back…but keep Darren Gibson ” you know the only way is down..keep em coming..holic
On both sides, zico, on both sides 😉
Zico,
An off topic Q for you. Well, it’s sort of on topic if you consider the segue of Scotland, Scottish footy, N. Ireland, and international footy week.
Why is Neil Lennon such a hated figure in the SPL? I’m aware of sectarian hatred but his goes to another level (repeated death threats). I cannot think of another person being the object of such pure malice than Lennon in the SPL (at least in recent history).
Nice post BTM – The one International ” friendly ” i’d still pay to watch would be England v Scotland , retained it’s sense of occasion pretty much until the end .
I read a book called ” In Search of Alan Gilzean ” not long ago , and the book goes into a lot of detail about his Dundee career . I had no idea he was as good as he was . Apparently , he had a choice of Arsenal or Spurs when he came south , so his eye for a goal was clearly more acute than his decision-making !
You went to Highbury to see Andy Gray eh – i thought he was a Dundee Utd man ?
A bottle of Laphroaig for the usual suspects please Barman .
Stingy – I ain’t going to go anywhere near that one – I’ve lived in Scotland all my life and couldn’t even begin to explain what goes on in the tiny minds of some fans, especially those of the Ugly Sisters.
Ugly sisters? Meaning the two Old Firm participants or something else?
Lennon had to quit international football back in N. Ireland because of death threats as well. So he’s not only vigorously despised in Scotland but back home too.
*applauds this magnificent piece of writing*
Just trying to gain a greater understanding on the matter Zico. Not trying to draw you into the mud or anything like that.
Have a drink of your choice on me. My virtual credit is impeccable, my actual credit is another story 🙁
Watching that Italy v Ireland match today, does everyone know that Barça are on the verge of signing Rossi? The just crowned European champions are looking to bolster their already formidable strike force. Not trying to sound negative, okay maybe I am just a bit, but who exactly are we close to signing to strengthen our squad? The transfer window is open. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Technically you are wrong Stingy. Players registrations are held until June 30th. Unregistered players, and players moving within their own association can move before then, but movement between associations…
oh it’s too complicated. The club have given Samir a deadline of 30th June for a reason.
Don’t expect us to announce any overseas signings until then either, although the deals may be in the bag, please God.
BTM
wonderful story,thnks for sharing with us.
I too loved Alan gilzean,good on the ground but deadly in the air.
Many is the tiime i watched him soaring above the Arsenal defence,powering another header goalwards.
I must look up his statistics to see how many he scored against us in his career.
But my all time favorites North of the Border,were the wonderful Jimmy Baxter and little twinkle toes of Celtic fame,one Jimmy Johnstone.
My barber who is 80 if he is a day,is Scottish and absolutely fanatical about Scottish football and Celtic in particular.
I understand about 1 word in 7 when he is talking 19 to the dozen about the good old days of Scottish football.
The walls of his Barber shop are plastered with fading old pictures of the great players that graced Hampden Park and all Grounds in between.
When i pop in for my ‘Super Zero’ trim every month or so,it’s like stepping back in time,but i just have to remember not to visit after Celtic or Scotland have failed to win,because a barber shop full of grumpy old Scots and cut throat razors,,is no place for an Englishman.!!
Cheers
Clive
Clive, I may be mistaken but with a “super zero” haircut you could be mistaken for a skinhead? Combine that with some grumpy old Scots and cut throat razors and things are starting to sound a little bit scary. 🙂
I’m sure somewhere in the recesses of my memory I remember a shot of the England and Scotland sides taking to the pitch at Wembley in 1971 with Frank Mclintock, Bob Wilson, and Peter Storey in close proximity. Was I dreaming it?
‘holic,
So you’re saying that ManUre could sign Nasri and Modric before July 1st because they are within the same association (English FA) and Barça can sign Rossi (Villarreal) before July 1st because those two clubs are in the same association? But we would have to wait until July 1st to sign Rossi if we wanted him?
I keep hearing that Barça is also very interested in Sanchez (Udinese) but I never read anything about FCB having to wait until July 1st to sign someone outside their FA (in this case, Spain & Italy).
Are English clubs at a disadvantage wrt transfers outside their association v other European associations? For example, do we have to wait until July 1st to sign Sanchez (Udinese, Italy; if he was on our radar) while Barça could do the deal tomorrow (before July 1st)? The rules should be uniform across UEFA in these transfer matters, one would think.
BtM,
Good enjoyable story – funny how looking back at “going to football” always makes it feel a much cosier thing than it often was at the time.
Facilities were pretty dire most of the time, and so, often, was the football. But somehow, then, it didn’t matter. I think that was because we felt so much closer to the clubs and the players then.
Only thing that took the edge off the story for me, is that I haven’t a clue where Scotland is.
On GOL TV on the left side of the Pond – Barça to offer 46M for Cesc (they did not specify the denomination, so I will wager a guess at €). And Barça have agreed in principle with (Not so Dirty) Sanchez (Udinese Chilean). Both could just be rumours but both are inter-association potential transfers. And even if we cannot register players before July 1st there is nothing stopping us from securing deals now (even with inter association/overseas transfers) and waiting until July 1st to officially register players with the English FA, from my understanding (example: Barça did a private deal with Afellay and PSV last November, outside the window, but could not register him with the Spanish FA until the window opened in January 2011. He could not play with Barça until he was registered with the Spanish FA. That’s the way I understand that particular transfer going down).
Who the hell have we struck a deal with in this off season? I’m not hearing anything on my footy telecasts on this side of the pond. All they keep saying is that either Nasri wants away or that the decision makers at AFC are stooges for not locking him up long term. It’s giving me an upsetting queasy feeling in my belly. Either because of the above or because of the cold pizza from the night before combined with some fine Grolsch swing tops I’m presently enjoying.
BT8 @ 20
I think I’m the only Englishman tolerated in the shop,purely and simply because i have been going there for so long and the Old Fellas accepts that,I’m not ‘ Talking out my Arse ‘ when we discuss Football.
Which is all we talk about actually,and do they all give me grief after every pathetic England performance.!!
I am the only Non Scot that gets a cup of tea you can stand your spoon in,and a couple of mangy plain Digestive biscuits,when i visit.
But I’ve yet to gain access to the tin containing the Chocolate ones,so they obviously have certain limits regarding Johnny English even after 25 yrs.!!
Cheers
Clive
And that’s two Grolsch swing tops — one for each hand. We canee let a good hand go to waste 😉
Clive,
Another fine wee story from you. Thanks for sharing. “… a cup of tea you can stand your spoon in”? My word, that must be some cup of tea and some sight. I’m not sure I’d wish to partake in such a ‘solid’ drink as that. And no chocolate biscuits after 25 years of patronage. Those stingy Scots! Their frugality knows no bounds.
Cheers
Stingy. Simples; Arsenal have more class than Barca, and don’t talk out of turn.
The media here in Spain are insatiable – they have two daily newspapers dedicated solely to sport (essentially one each for Real and Barca), so they have got to fill it with something. If you believed everything that they wrote then they’d each have signed every player living. Twice.
Not ENTIRELY the clubs’ fault, but they don’t exactly discourage it either.
If memory serves correctly, Franz Beckenbauar proclaimed back in the 80’s / early 90’s that club football would overtake international football in importance. Such a thought was greeted by ridicule at the time.
Always trust the Germans. Mostly.
CG,
Don’t both Barcelona (Sport and El Mundo Deportivo) and Madrid (Marca and AS) have at least two dailies devoted entirely to sports? And I’m not talking about what a Barcelona paper reported. The reports I spoke of above came from a North American daily footy broadcast.
I would say that the English media are pretty insatiable (or insane) also. They’re always pressing managers who are on the hot seat whether or not they should be sacked, consistently overestimating England’s chances at an international tourny, have their own transfer gossip madness, etc. Italy is crazy about such stuff also I would say.
“Always trust the Germans”? You wouldn’t be related to Neville Chamberlain by chance?
World has gone mad.
£30m for this guy?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13685517.stm
Sorry I meant 20M – even so…..
Just another example that EPL players, and English players in particular, are grossly overpriced. The world has gone looney.
Stingy – all true…. but where did the N American feed get the story from? – probably lifted from “Sport” and then reported as fact…
Great Uncle Neville was a very trusting soul…. I mean, he had a signature and everything!
CG – don’t know where they got their source from. It’s just a daily half hour footy show on the tele reporting on global games, news, etc. These guys don’t do footnotes. I know it’s rumour season/silly season but there’s a lot of smoke …
Well I know what you lot think of us Scots, and the stereotypes are being well enforced in some of the drinks above (Cheers Clive 😉 )
but £20m for a guy who has had what, half a dozen decent games, seems to me to be way off the scale.
Personally, I think it’s gonna be hard to keep Cesc as, let’s be honest, he’s eventually going to go back home. But it’s absolutely vital to retain Sami. Losing our top players while they are approaching their prime sends out the wrong signal to would be future signings. Some AFC fans speak of the cost of meeting Sami’s request. But there is an opportunity cost which is much greater if we lose him.
Liverfool are spending like a bunch of drunken sailors on shore leave. Paid too great a premium on Carroll and now Henderson. But that Suarez (non English btw) was some nasty ass shrewd piece of business.
Why couldn’t we have gotten Suarez? He would’ve looked good in red and white.
We have signed the 19 year old Carl Jenkinson from Charlton. He only made their first team squad at Christmas so he must be showing a lot of promise.
Stingy, I would wait a while longer before I proclaim Suarez a success. Let’s wait and see if he can perform when the pressure is on and there is an expectation on him to do the business come August.
And £20m plus N’Gog for Henderson? Jesus effin Christ…
As for Cesc to Barca, for every day that goes by without any sort of deal being announced my belief that he will stay grows stronger. He might still go, but I am far from convinced.
Jenkinson is 6’1″ and plays at right back or central. He has only made a handful of appearances for Charlton.
I really hate the term ‘undisclosed fee’. Why are some fees disclosed and others not?
.. And Gibbs pulls out of U21’s with an injury – let’s hope it’s a nice convenient one that let’s him get some rest and be back in time for pre-season.
To be fair, he would probably have benefited from getting some games.
Kind of going back to how Arsenal do things in the right way;
Charlton Chief Exec says….
“The last few weeks of the season were difficult as the deal was finalised but could not be signed until the Premier League transfer window opened.
“I would like to thank Carl, his father and Arsenal for their professional manner in dealing with matters.”
One has to have standards! 🙂
Holic @ 21
I have trawled a number of areas of the interweb and cannot for the life of me find the Scotland team for that fixture in 1971. My best hope is that my brother has a copy of the programme in his attic – yikes, that’s in Leamington Spa.
Peter Storey definitely played for England. As did the goal scoring LWC Chivers – always hated that guy 🙂
I think the question should be posed directly to our resident, statto, aka tabs 🙂 🙂
Catalan@43,
What all these rumours about catalan radio announcing the Arsenal deal with Barca for our captain ? Do us a favour go and burn down camp nou !!
‘Holic@21 and DrZ@44
Afternoon All Statto here ,
Early in the 1971-72 season , i was due to accompany my father to the Clash of the Titans , reigning Champs against most creditable challengers , Arsenal vs Dirty Leeds at Highbury .
Tragically before the game I contracted Chicken Pox and was left at home with my mother whilst my Dad took himself off to Highbury , ( in the early seventies the notion of joint parenting had yet to take off ! ) .
Anyway , by way of soothing my understandable outrage , my father returned home after a 2-1 win , with a consolation prize , a book called ” Arsenal! Arsenal ! ” – basically a pictorial History of Arsenal’s Double Year .
Contained within that Book is a photograph of Peter Storey and Frank Mclintock strolling out onto the pitch together .
Bob Wilson didn’t play but i have a feeling George Graham did .
Hah found it (sad, I know)
22nd May 1971 (British Championship)
ENGLAND – SCOTLAND 3-1 (3-1)
Referee: Jef F.Dorpmans (Holland)
Crowd: 91.469, Wembley Stadium, London
Goals: 1-0 Peters (9), 1-1 Curran (11), 2-1 Chivers (30), 3-1 Chivers (40)
ENGLAND: (Manager: Alfred Ernest Ramsey)
Gordon Banks – Christopher Lawler, Terence Cooper, Peter Edwin Storey, Roy Leslie McFarland –
Robert Frederick Chelsea Moore [c], Francis Henry Lee (Allan John Clarke 73), Alan James
Ball – Martin Harcourt Chivers, Geoffrey Charles Hurst, Martin Stanford Peters.
SCOTLAND: (Manager: Robert Brown/26)
Robert Brown Clark (7/Aberdeen) –
John Greig (43/Rangers)
James Brogan (4/Celtic)
William John Bremner (25/Leeds United)
Francis McLintock (9/Arsenal) –
Robert Moncur [c] (11/Newcastle United)
James Johnstone (12/Celtic)
David Thomson Robb (3/Aberdeen) –
Hugh Patrick Curran (3/Wolverhampton Wanderers)
Anthony Green (4/Blackpool)
Peter Barr Cormack (8/Nottingham Forest)
Subs:
Francis Michael Munro (2/Wolverhampton Wanderers) for Hugh Curran (46 Minutes)
Andrew Jarvie (3/Airdrieonians) for Anthony Green (82 Minutes)
Seems Stroller didn’t figure at all.
Bugger ! 🙂
Nice one Dr Z .
Maybe I’m showing my ignorance here, but I didn’t know Bobby Moore’s middle name was Chelsea!
Curiouser and curiouser.
Me neither , there are some pretty interesting middle names there – shame Bob Primrose Wilson didn’t play – he would have felt right at home amongst that lot .
Wee dram please barman.
Re: Zico @47 It appears fewer of the Scots have middle names, which may account for their renowned honesty.
BTW, Today is be kind to the Scots day, which occurs once a year. 🙂
Re: SR @41 You are correct that “undisclosed fee” is an odious term and should forthwith be banned from the English language and especially from news releases about football transfers. I believe its only useful purpose is to avoid public embarrassment about the size of the fee to one or both sides so if there is such a low level of confidence about the terms of the deal, why should the deal even go forth at all? That said, welcome to Jenkinson who we all know could even go so far as to be the next Eboue.
Now then my backwoods friend, before anyone else said it, the lack of middle names is due to the extra ink expense on the birth certificates.
Guinness for me and whisky for 8 ball Guvnor.
Blackburn’s Jones having a medical at Manure .
BBC reporting that we made a bid as well – hope it was more than the geometry set 🙁
Dr. Z it appears the chemistry set Man U offered to Jones won the day. A 17 million pounds chemistry set which must have quite a few bells and whisltles, I must say. For such a fee Jones must be quite the player, and if the player matches the fee Manure will be quite impenetrable for years to come. BBC also reporting that Jenkinson was a boyhood Arsenal fan which should count for something. Undisclosed 17 milliion pounds doesn’t get you ahead of disclosed 17 million pounds on the hierarchy of stories on the BBC website though.
Not saying the Jenkinson fee was anything approaching that much, of course.
Trev, did you by any chance receive ny email?
Evening ‘Holic & ‘Holics
Firstly to BtM: My thanks also for sharing such great memories. They evoked a few of my own having spent a fair bit of time north of Hadrian’s Wall over the years although only as a visiting sassenach mind. I’ve had some ‘greet neets oot’ in Kirkcaldy and Sauchiehall Street too and did once get to see a Scotland match at Hampden Park but cannot for the life of me remember who the visitors were. I’m also old enough to remember the ‘LWC with a big comb-over’ aka Gillie. He was indeed a scourge of many a defence in the late 60s / early 70s. Very talented and when combined with Chivers and Peters it made you appreciate what LWC fans must have felt over the past decade or so when they look at our side.
So we signed a 19 year old defender? Nowt wrong with that. Here’s hoping that’s not what Arsene/Ivan had in mind when we politely asked them to put their hands in their pockets at The Cottage 😉
zico @ #47: You surpassed yourself. Those middle names are something esle. My compliments and an open GT in a show of appreciation.
statto tabs @ #50: Didn’t RPW win a few Scottish caps in his time? And never mind about Jones, plenty more fish to fry. Let’s hope we’re in for a big, fat juicy cod loin as opposed to whitebait.
Lars @ #40: Everything’s crossed in the hope that you are right about Cesc. I hope we’re not clutching at straws on this one.
SV @ #35: The smoke is probably caused by erroneous and over use of the contents of the GT 😉
Dr. C @ #43: Amen to that.
Clive @ #19: Good to see you back in the bar.
A round on me please Mr. Barman and one for yourself, as always. Pint o’ Shilling for me please.
On the other hand, seeing as we’re always complaining about the inadequate amounts of cash being splashed we can hopefully interpret Jenkinson’s “undisclosed fee” as actually being more than the amount paid for Jones (from Blackburn) as a way of of “keeping up with the Joneses” in the aspiration that we have actually signed the better player. Sounds pitifully desperate, I know 🙁
We had a bid accepted by Blackburn last night; so you have to assume that we offered pretty much the same. He chose Man Utd, so not much more we can do. The positives; We are obviously not going to be shy about spending money if the target is right. 16million would be our record.
Will be interesting to see if Eboue moves on now that the new guy can deputise and learn from Sagna.
Keeping up with the Joneses? Hell, I have trouble keeping up with The Simpsons 🙂
TS – just cheated and looked it up – Bob Wilson played twice for Scotland . Think he suffered a bit as a result of being viewed as a) posh and b) not really scottish , despite both his parents being scots .
I remember scottish goalies being viewed with much hilarity at the time and he probably should have played a lot more .
As regards the Jones thing , i can’t say i’ve seen enough of him to know whether missing out on him is a good or a bad thing .
I do think , though , that the fact we were given permission to speak to him is pretty encouraging – means Arsene is prepared to spend big money strengthening central defence .
I’m still harbouring hopes of my dream signing – Mr ” flick to kick ” Subotic 🙂
Heh Nice one Stingy.
BTW didn’t you used to be TVN?
Dr. Z, If SV is not TVN then the two of them have done more to increase the reputation of the Canadians as a verbose people than any others I can name, not counting the Quebeckers in my acquaintance who are on another level of verbosity altogether.
tabs @ 65 – yes Scottish goalkeepers were a bit of a joke, quite ironic when you consider some of the howlers of late from England’s very own, Robinson, James, Green, Foster to name the ones I can think of off the top of my head and going back all the way to Clemence (see my post @ 3). Shilton on the other hand was a fantastic keeper and I presume Banks wasn’t too shabby either.
Since those days though we have produced some pretty good keepers – Andy Goram was particularly good and I saw a lot of Craig Gordon when he was at Hearts and whilst he has still to put his A game together in England and has been a bit unlucky with injury, I would put him ahead of any of the keepers that are currently at Arsenal.
As for Primrose Bob – he may well have deserved more caps than he got, but there is no way you could’ve convinced anyone in Scotland at that time that a guy with his accent was “really Scottish”. How times change.
TS – or Edwin – thanks for the invitation to the GT – I’m currently rolling 😉
Dr Z @68 – i made sure i said ” at the time ” 🙂
The days of the English proclaiming we had the best keepers in the world are , sadly , long gone .
Even Seaman stayed in the post at least 2 years too long .
My view of Scottish keepers is slightly skewed by over-exposure to George Wood 🙂
Ah well, one can see why that would scar a man tabs.
Have a beer, and calm yourself down. 🙂
Zico & 8ball – are the two of you, along with ‘holic, taking ESP tablets along with your vitamins? Much like a gentleman’s underwear, a gentleman’s username should be changed every now and again 😉
I still for the life of me do not know how ‘holic guessed that I am a Canuck? What tipped it off?
tabs & Dr.C,
Yes, I can see the +ves of us putting bids in and showing that we mean business in the transfer market. Like tabs I know v. little of Jones to know if he will be viewed as a big miss but Auld Red Nose is normally a shrewd buyer. Any news on Mr. Subbuteo BTW?
Dr.z & tabs,
I still find it hard to believe that ‘Sir Bob’ was Scawtish. He’s much more the public school boy type, strike that, he’s a true gent. He remains one of my all time heroes but I can see how the Scots would really struggle to accept him as one of their ain.
If your rollin’, I’m smokin’…
And how can a realtive thug like PS4 have a middle name like Edwin? Heh! 🙂
cheers Dr Z , will do .
SV = TVN? More entries for the HT Mk II glossary….
The way things are going TVN could well end up as just TV and then we’ll have confusion over our favoured CB of the same initials. Complicated stuff 🙂
TS – nah only the usual shite on the net – think he’s staying in Germany .
I’ll get my pipe 🙂
Stingy you’re not very worldly – a wee thing called an IP address I suspect is easily traced by Management.
As for MY ESP your comment about Central Park Cowdenbeath re stock cars and footie, I had heard before.
I was wondering what had happened to you – I assumed you had thrown a strop and stormed out of the bar in a big girly dramatic gesture maybe due to some perceived slight, but hey, posters come and go all the time from various blogs and sites – some of us saddos are quite happy sitting on our same old bar stools.
Anyway nice to have you back from Kanada 😉
Dr z
I like sitting on my stools too
*drum roll and hits high-hat*
‘holic, zico, and 8ball must all have some modern high tech NSA, CIA, MI-5, MI-6 detecto contraptions. Hmmmm.
Edwin @ 74 – the glossary is going to need a carriage of its own on the HT MKII at this rate.
And rolling stock has now entered the happy train glossary with an altogether different meaning.
I see you are en forme tonight Dr.z, I’ll sharpen my fingers accordingly.
TVN/TV/SV/whatever, welcome back old bean. Always good to have returning regulars. Do tell us how you have managed to keep going without us these past few weeks? 😉
tabs @ #75,
Don’t worry there’ll be another just like him along soon….
Your pipe very welcome.
I’ll bring me slippers.
TES @ 74 – that’s it. That’s the ticket. I saw the writing on the wall and decided to be proactive on the matter as well as avoid confusion over initials with remaining roster players. I kinda like my new username. It’s fresh, much like my shorts.
zico – I cannot claim to be very worldly to be sure. But I have heard of IP addresses via computers. The only thing is, I always comment using my phone. So, how can ‘holic know in this case?
Signed,
Technologically challenged.
And no I didn’t take a sabbatical due to some slight as I’ve got a thick skin. I just needed time away after the most recent late season implosion.
Best wishes to all in the bar from Kanada, eh!
It appears we will not be playing our annual summer fixture at Barnet. Sorry for you Barnet fans out there but have we finally figured out that playing a game at a massive stadium in China or Malaysia could earn us a few more quid to finance our many needs? If so maybe we’re not such stuck in the muds after all. 🙂
Stingy,
Your phone still needs to connect to the web to post – therefore it will be connecting via a server which will have an IP address.
We’re watching you Stingy, you and your thick skin, and don’t forget it.
Seriously, though we are glad to have you back, and hope you didn’t get involved in any self-harming toward the end of the season – we all met the disappointment in different ways.
TS,
Cheers to you as well. All the best.
I’ve managed to get by my own interlull, so to speak, via a wonderful friend of mine from the Netherlands:
Brewed and bottled by Grolsche Bierbrouwerij,
Enschede, Holland
Return for refund where applicable (you’ll like that zico)
Imported
La swingtop originale
That swing top bottle, I must say, is some brilliant engineering. If I didn’t know better I would have guessed either the Germans or Swiss designed the swing top. But as those with the wooden shoes say, “If it ain’t Dutch it ain’t much”. Isn’t that right Edwin?
Cheers ‘holics!
zico – my phone will always connect to the same server? What if I am always moving around? Wouldn’t the phone find the nearest server and therefore a different IP address?
So, ‘holic saw the IP address of the server, did a search for a recent match, and deduced that I’m from Kanada? Brilliant. No wonder Sherlock Holmes came from jolly ole England. One of those spy agencies should snatch him up 🙂
A round for all those sittin’ on their stools …
Always nice to get the pipe out .
Don’t know if anyone else was watching The Apprentice , but was that Ronnie Barker done up in drag , that just got fired ?
*takes another toot*
SV – one of my brothers lives in Enschede as it happens – I was introduced to the now world famous Grolsch there in 1981 – when my liver resembled a liver and not a coral reef.
SV @ 88 – well I suppose if you nipped over to Hawaii then Holic might conclude you wore a very loud shirt.
Stingy, I am a logical scientist. Allow me to demonstrate…
Two builders (Dave and Stuart) are seated either side of a table in a pub when a well-dressed man enters, orders a beer and sits on a stool at the bar. The two builders start to speculate about the occupation of the suit.
Dave: – I reckon he’s an accountant.
Stuart: – No way – he’s a stockbroker.
Dave: – He ain’t no stockbroker! A stockbroker wouldn’t come in here!
The argument repeats itself for some time until the volume of beer gets the better of Dave and he makes for the toilet.
On entering the toilet he sees that the suit is standing at a urinal.
Curiosity and the several beers get the better of him.
Dave: – ‘Scuse me…. no offence meant, but me and me mate were wondering what you do for a living?
Suit: – No offence taken! I’m a Logical Scientist by profession.
Dave: – Oh? What’s that then?
Suit: – I’ll try to explain by example … Do you have a goldfish at home?
Dave: – Er … mmm … well yeah, I do as it happens!
Suit: – Well, it’s logical that you keep it either in a bowl or in a pond. Which is it?
Dave: – It’s in a pond!
Suit: – Well it’s reasonable to suppose that you have a large garden then?
Dave: – As it happens, yes I have got a big garden.
Suit: – Well then it’s logical to assume that, in this town, if you have a large garden then you have a large house?
Dave: – As it happens I’ve got a five bedroom house …. built it myself!
Suit: – Well given that you’ve built a five bedroom house it’s logical to assume that you haven’t built it just for yourself and that you are quite probably married? And with a family?
Dave: – Yes I am married, I live with my wife and four children.
Suit: – Well then it is logical to assume that you are sexually active with your wife on a regular basis?
Dave: – Yep! Five times a week!
Suit: – Well then it is logical to suggest that you don’t masturbate very often?
Dave: – Do what? Not me, mate!
Suit: – Well there you are! That’s logical science at work!
Dave: – How’s that then?
Suit: – Well from finding out that you had a goldfish, I’ve told you about your sex life!
Dave: – I see! That’s pretty impressive. Thanks mate!
Both leave the toilet and Dave returns to his mate.
Stuart: – I see the suit was in there. Did you ask him what he does?
Dave: – Yep! He’s a logical scientist!
Stuart: – What’s that then?
Dave: – I’ll try and explain. Do you have a goldfish?
Stuart: – Nope.
Dave: – Well then, you’re a wanker.
With thanks to John at Publog 😉
Doesn’t Twente play in Enschede?
You lads have The Apprentice on that side of the pond? I’m familiar with it but never really watch it. Do they have British accents for the characters? I nice Scottish one would do for Donald Trump as I hear that he would like to build a new golf course which a lot of the folks in Aberdeen aren’t too fond of. The Donald is a controversial fella wherever he goes.
‘holic – Five times a week …
A Logical Scientist huh? Wasn’t Sherlock Holmes a Logical Scientist too?
So, you’re telling me to get a goldfish?
*opens another swing top, which makes an inviting sound and a wee spray*
isp it was maestro, sadly not rocket science, esp, or thought transference 😉
tabs @ #89,
Edna The Glove was indeed a bit of a monster at many levels. ‘Britain’s business elite’? Now we know why the country is described by some as being in serious long term decline.
Great entertainment though.
See you in the boardroom? Pipes allowed, I believe.
Uruguay 1-1 (4-3 PK) Netherlands Friendly
Suarez got a goal from open play. Every time I see this guy, be it Uruguay, WC, Ajax, Liverpool, he just oozes class. It seeps out of every pore from his body. He could have walked onto our team — backwards. Smoking a pipe in one hand, eating a sandwich, and playing the saxaphone with the other — and all whilst dancing a jig — backwards.
C’mon Lars. You’ve gotta admit he’s sheer class. You should be able to see it. He gave those Manc bastards nightmares in March at Anfield. Waltzed right around their entire defence inside the penalty box and even stopped to sign autographs.
Uruguay were awarded a trophy of some sort for their efforts. A trophy for winning a one game Friendly?
Hey, didn’t we win the Emirates Cup last year or at least recently? Therefore, theoretically speaking, we don’t have a six year trophyless drought.
RvP skied his PK effort over the bar.
100!!!
Stingy, he’s been brilliant in some games and far less so in others. He did absolutely nothing at the Emirates when they came to visit us, for example. Also note that I am not saying he absolutely won’t perform, I am saying let’s wait and see if he can do it consistently under pressure – which also goes for Liverpool as a team, they did crumble a bit in the last few games when all of a sudden they had something to lose.
And yes, Twente do indeed play in Enschede.
A recent classic from Special1TV: Going to have to return this Arsenal stereo … lots of volume but no treble 🙂
Hi Holics,
How’s everyones summer break going?
Off to work now. Will check in later!
An Evian to go please H
😉
Good to see you back Gt. All’s well here but no chance of a break 😉
Another fine classic from Special1TV: I hear Sergio Ramos wants to join Arsenal … so that he never drops a cup again 🙂
Chaps – just to stir the pot a little;
We could do with a direct running, proven goalscorer to play off of RVP, right?
Jermain Defoe, anyone?
The floor is open for debate….
Catalan, why buy Defoe when we’ve already got a quicker and better player in Theo Walcott? If we want someone (which I do) to play off RvP my vote is on Walcott.
True Lars – but I’d argue that Defoe has the much better goalscoring prowess.
Having said that, I would like to see Theo given the chance to be more direct…
Catalan , consider my pot well and truly stirred ! I would rather eat my own faeces with an ice cream pick , than welcome Defoe to the club .
My Spud season- ticket mate can’t wait to be shot of him .
haha……TABS. Must admit I was wondering where the vitriol had gone!
I’m with tabs – they can have OUR rejects – don’t fancy it the other way about.
Don’t think Theo will ever be a real winger so if he has a long term future with us it has to be through the middle.
@ Hi Holics long time follower and a big fan of the regulars in the drinks…you all make my day….as per Catalan’s post i dont think we need Defoe coz we already have Walcott who is coming into his own and Arshavin who has got good numbers to play that role…and besides Defoe spends quite a good number of days out injured as i have noticed…Just to indulge all of you…for a defender i have always thought that Roger Johnson of Birmingham just be what we needed….The guy has alot of heart and fight in him…cheers all
hi holics a long summer in front of us, just a thought if Henderson is worth 20 mil what’s our Jack worth.
UgandanGooner@112 – Welcome , pull up a chair and here’s a beer .
Austrian Gooner@113 – All the tea in China wouldn’t …
Dr Z , Dr C and Lars – I think if we are going to buy a striker , it should be someone that RVP can play off , rather than someone to play off him imho .
Btw , if we get this Gervinho that all the transfer sites seem keen on , he’s going straight into the Ugly Team 🙂
TS @97 – Poor old Edna , I hadn’t quite prepared myself for the Beeb 2 interview that followed where she appeared to have undergone some sort of makeover by losing about 5 stone and transforming herself into some sort of Grace Jones Dominatrix !
Hi holics,
Been busy as fuck..yet to catch up with all the drinks
I am in need of some soothing Californian green
*goes to raid the MC2 for the GT*
Good to see you Harsha. The new crop of Californian green is really up to snuff as I’m sure you’re noticing. Nothing better for passing the transfer window in a calm, accepting state of mind. 🙂
Thanx TABS for the beer…will take that seat and i was thinking the same thing…i cant see RVP staying upfront and have someone play off him….he is a very mobile type of player…and i was thinking he already has Chamarkh for that…all we need is that aggressive defender(leader/organiser if u will), penetrative fast wingers as i feel we were let down so much last season coz we were abit slow sometimes last season without Walcott…and that commanding midfielder(i prefer a talker/loud mouth)….looking to Wenger’s scouting team on these ones really…. *sips that beer he was offered*
Ugandan Goon ,
We’re on the same page , though i don’t know for how long , given that Harsha has got the Californian Green out 🙂
*off to get my pipe*
Harsha, et al., the Californian Green is giving me a somewhat dubious but nevertheless interesting premonition that we’re on the verge of signing Evra in a transfer deal for Clichy. Evra will then begin the open recruitment of Shrek to come to Arsenal. My first reaction was to barf repeatedly of course …
I would rather stick needles in my eyes than have that little turd Evra anywhere near our team.
*gouge, gouge*
With Nasri barfing in the corner , Dr Z’s eyeballs gushing blood , and me preparing to eat my own poo , this Bar is beginning to take on a fairly ripe odour .
We need a couple of Spuds in to do a bit of cleaning
Tabs, Spuds are not allowed to clean. Our refuse is too good for them, even to the point of not allowing them to clean up our precious bodily fluids.
tabs @114,
Another vote for RvP being the striker (pos. 10) that plays off of a lead striker (pos. 9). Assuming that Bendtner is going to leave, I’m not too keen on him anyway, we only have Chamakh to fill that role currently. A Chamakh & RvP partnership would be quite interesting. But for that to come off one of two things need to occur. Either AW goes to a 4-4-2 which I can’t see him doing except for the odd occasion or we stay in our present 4-3-3 (4-5-1), Cesc flies the nest, and RvP plays where Cesc currently does.
I’m not for getting Dafoe: 1) he’s too inconsistent, 2) he’s a Spud, 3) as others have already said, we could try Theo in that experiment/role
Our first priority should be retaining both Cesc and Nasri. The second priority should be improving our (usually) suspect defence, especially central defence, and I’m not saying we should sign Kaiser Sosay.
Personally, I’d like to see a solid, no nonsense German CB. Real Madrid just signed two guys from the German league (Sahin and Altintop). I know they are midfielders and not CBs but the point is that they are transfers outside their own association. Are all EPL teams hamstrung until July 1st wrt signings outside the EPL? That doesn’t seem fair and is not a level playing field. The FA should change that rule if it indeed exists.