From The Sublime To The Ridiculous In Ninety Minutes
Sep 18th, 2011 by 'holic
A gutful of Guiness and Tullamore Dew is usually guaranteed to chase the cares of the world away. I thought it wise not to rush to record my thoughts about the game at Ewood Park. My regulars would not have been very taken with the very dark place I found myself in at the final whistle.
Without doubt, the game at Ewood Park epitomised the current Arsenal. For forty-five minutes the match was there to be secured. Even the staunchest Blackburn fan would be forced to concede it was astonishing that the game was not over as a contest at half-time. We had two goals to show for some sublime football, but sandwiched between them the hosts had scored the unlikeliest of equalisers when Santos, on his Premiership debut, played Yakubu onside.
However at half-time the talk was of Arsenal and how well we had played. Forty-five minutes later the talk was all about the astonishing fragility we once again showed at the back. This was no ordinary balls-up. This was an Arsenal balls-up!
It is harsh to isolate one individual in a second-half defensive performance so inept it beggared belief. Perhaps Sagna will escape the harshest of criticism, but alongside and ahead of him a collective dereliction of duty was happening. It has to be said though that Song found a way of wiping out the memory of his outstanding first-half with an unbelievably poor display after the break. That’s how strange a day it was. He grabbed the first of two own-goals, and failed to cut out the ball that led to Koscielny completing a poor day at the office with a second.
Normally I would make more of the fact that Yakubu was offside for his second strike, but it was a marginal decision. The assistant referee can be cut some slack for that one. Normally I would be up in arms about the non-award of a penalty for Robinson wiping out Theo near the end, but again it was a tough call for Andre Marriner. Normally I would slaughter the referee for not sending off Olsson for his appalling dive near the end, but having somehow called a free-kick for the non-contact, how could he?
All of those gripes would have detracted from the fact that what happened at Blackburn was self-inflicted, and no outside agencies were to blame. Not the officials, for once, who by and large gave what they saw. Not Blackburn, certainly. Even they are absolutely astonished to have come away from that match with anything but a serious beating. No, this was yet another example of Arsenal imploding and it is happening too often.
The questions that arise from this match are uncomfortable for the supporters, let alone those in charge of the club. There is a level of expectation from all connected with the club. Some think we should be winning trophies year in and year out, others consider the regular qualification for Champions League football quite an achievement. I’ll accept that in recent years I have argued that the manager deserves the opportunity to rebuild his side as long as the latter is achieved. We are not yet at the point where that qualification is impossible for next year, but we cannot go much further into the season languishing in the wrong half of the table.
New bodies will take time to gel. That is appreciated by supporters. The same old failings at the back will not. We cannot continue leaking soft goals from a large chunk of the set pieces we face. We cannot carry on playing the Barca formation without the player that made it work, and without the constant pressing of opponents that it requires. We have genuine pace and trickery on the flanks, and players who could quickly and comfortably adapt to a 4-4-2 formation. Chamakh’s goal was proof positive of this, and let’s not overlook the fact that both the Morrocan and Mertesacker could, and possibly should, have salvaged at least a point for us when we adopted that formation.
I’ll apologise to the regulars who may feel I have not provided the usual perspective. I can’t. I will be in my seat next Saturday, and I will be four-square behind the side we put out. We have to be, because their confidence is clearly rock bottom right now. I cannot help thinking though that we have to start climbing the table rapidly, or face the most uncomfortable question of all.
Please God, no.
71 Responses to “From The Sublime To The Ridiculous In Ninety Minutes”
I have always felt why buy a player after scouting them in the position they play for their club to then bring them to Arsenal and use them in a totally different role. It’s time we started playing players in their correct positions and using tactics which get the best out of them.
OK I’ll fess up straight away, I didn’t see this game (only the ‘highlights’), so no comments on the own goals or individual performances.
However, it’s painfully obvious that the recent run of results and defensive pratfalls including yesterday’s are NOT a blip.
Look at the final quarter of last season as well to get a better perspective, the results then were also catastrophic, and were relegation standard.
Over what was a farcical close season we amazingly did NOT strengthen the squad, sure a few of the drongos went out on loan (strange that other clubs wouldn’t take most of them otherwise) but the three first team players we sold have not been replaced by better players. Only the signing of Mertesacker strengthens one area of the squad on paper.
More importantly there has been no change in either the backroom staff or the management.
My point; don’t be surprised by results like this; we haven’t got a prayer of winning anything this year, or a top four finish, my prediction is at best a position in the top half of the table; no more.
We can all save ourselves a lot of angst by reducing our expectations; hopefully the end of the season will at long last see the departure of Inspector Clouseau which is the essential first step in restoring the fortunes of our club.
I’d love for him to prove me wrong but given the current lack of leadership in the club, we all know (apart from the most seriously deluded AKBs) it won’t happen.
Something extremely alcoholic to deaden the pain please barman….
It was distressful, to say the least, but I do not understand why you give the ref a free pass for not one, not two, but at least three bad calls. If Arsenal deserve to lose because of bad play, they should at least be allowed to do so on their own, and not with the assistance of two or three referees to Blackburn.
Rovers fan here.
We’ve both endured pretty terrible starts to the season. It’s hard to feel bad for arsenal simply because we have enough to worry about with our own club, and vice versa.
All I ask is that you give a touch of credit to Rovers. Heck, you don’t even have to do that. Just talk about the game in a way that doesn’t make it sound like Rovers were playing so awful that it’s embarrassing to be on the same pitch, let alone lose. Yes Arsenal had way more chances and possession and you would expect that. However Rovers were far from bad. They were patient and knew they would have to wait for their chances and ride their luck a bit (something we haven’t had for a while). Every player ran their socks off, pressed well and gave a good account of themselves.
While the own goals were unfortunate, it’s not like there was no pressure from Rovers to get into that position to start with.
I sincerely hope that both of our historic clubs come out of this rut quickly, and I’m sure both will!
Well measured, ‘holic.
I’m baffled by this team. Two games in a row we produce rock solid defensive efforts, a single goal in each proves enough to bring a positive result. Then today, we seem to bring in our attacking strength (3 goals are good regardless of the opposition) only to throw the defensive play out the window. We’re capable of both, but why not at the same time?
My spot on the happy train will remain, but we’ve got a steep climb ahead of us.
There were a few positives at least (buried amid the ****)
– Was impressed with Arshavin. He put in a solid effort today.
– The response after their first equalizer (why wasn’t it repeated after their second?)
– Goals for the new boys
– A glimpse perhaps of the Chamack of old
That uncomfortable question you allude to… Must be:
Finishing below Spurs?
Outside the top four?
It’s early days, but habits are being formed now. Losing habits. I remember an interview with Jonathan Woodgate a few years ago, when Ramos’ Spurs were on a losing streak, sitting near the bottom, and he said that better teams than Spurs had been relegated in the past. He was right, because no matter how good your squad looks on paper–compared to, say, Norwich or Blackburn–once you get on a bad streak, once dropping points becomes habitual and players lose trust in each other and the manager, there really is no knowing what depths a team may plumb.
I don’t think relegation is a worry, but mid-table is a distinct possibility.
Can you imagine the elation if we finish fourth this season?
Is there any sports team more difficult to support than our arsenal?? I know some never win but the tease of beating Barca then complete and utter collapse, and the way we manage to do it… Are we cursed??
exactly what i was thinking holic, if any one had read my previous comment they’d know i was optimistic an ‘akb’ some would say, making valid reasons as to this and that but that was the final straw….
i wouldnt say im as high as the west upper level, its still a bit early for that kind of talk. i think your bang on with…
‘We cannot carry on playing the Barca formation without the player that made it work, and without the constant pressing of opponents that it requires’
for ages though remaining positive i have questioned the pressing and have barked many foul words to those who give the opposition time on the ball. it like there thinking ‘oh he’s not in a dangerous position yet its ok, whoops, shit shit shit shit shit’ not realising that every position is dangerous. it like they tried it for that chelski game went back to the dressing room and thought wow that was way too tiring, fuck doin that week in week out.
with the players we brought i would have put money on us going back to a 4-4-2 but isnt the set up the same throughout the age levels? and if so why would they believe it to be the best formation if they wont instil the other 50% of the tactic?
all of a sudden the departed dont look so backstabberish do they.
Wenger has vowed to fight on. If results don’t improve he will be off. So many managers have been axed in this manner. Why should he be so sacrosanct?
Yeah I know the gunners this and that but football is about winning and goals. If you have two shots and both end in goals that’s better than having one hundred shots and none goes in.
Its time Wenger changed things. First Djourou CANNOT be a RIGHT BACK. He is too slow and gets exposed. That aside. I suggest Wenger adopts a radical restructure of the team.
Here is what i would consider in practice:
————–Snezzy
Sagna/Jerkinson, Matsecker, Santos
————Song – Fringpong
Arshavin/Chamberlain, Arteta, Gervinho
—————-RVP———-
———-Park/Chamakh/Walcott
It is my humble opinion that we can experiment a 5 man defensive unit with 3 guys at the back and 2 defensive Midfielders.The two will aid in transition to attack. When Vermaleen returns he will take one of DM roles. They will fill the spaces between the 3 back liners and and the holes in the midfield between the three Midfielders.
Winning a game requires an attacking side. Wenger’s gamble with removing Song for Chamakh almost paid off. It was good to get RVP-Chamakh link up to get the goal. We were really dangerous through the last 1/8 of the match.
It is time Wenger gave RVP much needed assistance in a 2 man frontal challenge. Van Persie playing behind strikers as a free role is a hot attacker with lesser risks of injury and can build Arsenal striking prowess substantively. We must start to get to score goals with a more regular frequency. The system is 3.2.3.2.
I suspect we will turn the season once the team settles in.
It’s obvious Wenger has lost the plot. The whole season is in tatters.This is the price for inactivity in summer and a philosophy for nurturing youths.
Unless there is a radical change in his football philosophy,the gunners could be even in worst straits.Defence has always been a problem with Arsenal thanks to Wenger’s attacking game.Actually the gunners defence has been very poor over the years thanks to Wenger.
Who can forget Arsenal 5-Boro 3 ,Spurs 4 Arsenal 5,etc.These were the warning signs. UnfortunatelyWenger did not do anyting to stiffen the defence back then because the gunners were winning.
Finally this season will be a water shed one.It’s obvious to all the gunners can aim for fourth spot only.As for the cl,forget it. I can’t recall ateam so poor densiveely winning it.So all in all it would be another team in the works and by then the top teams including Spurs and Pool will be increasing the gap on the gunners.
Finally the board will have to take action because the gunners can’t challenge. Mark my words the waiting for a ticket ES will disappear overnight and the stadium will become a white elephant.
If only confidence came in quart bottles, we could buy gallons of it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t. It needs to be built, moment by moment, minute by minute, game by game. Diminished confidence is rarely accompanied by glorious luck or a beautiful rub of the green. Tw own goals in a single match are testament to that.
This was a must win game that most certainly could and should have been won. To score three quite excellent goals at Blackburn and still come away with nothing beggars belief. Our defensive game throughout this one was woeful. Putting that right now is job one. That doesn’t just require the back four to gel and stop conceding these downright stupid goals. It requires killer closing down and an immediate stop to stupid surrendering of the ball – like the Arshavin back pass that set up Blackburn’s first goal.
Critically important that the support gets right behind the team at this critical time. I promise to out-shout Holic at the Bolton game next Saturday. Yet another “must win” game as the team tries to get the show back on the road.
Alternatively, like wanker @5 we can all completely misconstrue Holic’s post and get on the fire Wenger train and “be vindicated too”. Now there’s a well considered, positive path forward. Not.
Zonal defense is a problem, when defenders do not take rssponsiblity and attack the ball. You could see all the defenders just watching the ball to come to their area. Whereas the attackers just charge in and create lots of confusion. ?, whoo can jump highest, a standing player or one who is running in. Simple answer. This is especially cronic when ball played to the far side and headed or kicked back towards goal. Utter confusion. Maybe zonal defense works against smaller teams, and, eiropean ones. But, against big and long ball specialists, it does not work. We cannot have one strategy for all.
Song was a disappointment. Perhaps he was not given a specific job tp do and the ball just hit over his head, rendering himineffective. Something has to be done to correct the defensive balance. Its not just about Song, but, the entire defensive strategy. One strategy for all teams just don’t work. Having the attitude we can steamroll and outplay lower yeams does not work. We simply do not have the players, as in the past, to do this.
Either, we change or most sadly, change managment!
the team is not good enough , I hope strongly we will not be relegated which is a strong possibility .
santos not good enough
matsecker too slow is it ?
gerv still too childish
and there are too many imprecise passing
Well done ‘holic, I think you’ve shown great restraint. A heavy shift behind my bar and too many drinks later, I’m still bewildered.
This was a ridiculous result from a gimme game.
Nathan, with all due respect, your team were not good, in fact they were downright bad, it comes as no suprise to me that many of your fellow supporters are Kean on replacing your manager (although it’s your board that are the real culprits) Last weekend Swansea gave us a real game, Blackburn did not, but somehow we managed to insure that you’ll have the same manager for at least one more week.
For fans, the easiest thing to do is place the blame on certain players, fingers love to point, but after that game, I was in a state of disbelief, my fingers could not find a direction to home in on.
What went wrong?????
How can a team that looked so assured for 45 minutes, be in such disarray for the following three quarters of an hour?
Why do we percivere with a system that is cleary wrong for the players we have?
How can we get our confidence back after yet another demoralising defeat?
I can’t answer these questions, even if I could, it wouldn’t matter, because it’s not my responsibility, that burden falls at the feet of Mr Wenger.
Please do not construe this as an “I want Arsene out” type post, because I’ve spent a large portion of my evening argueing against such a suggestion, but, there is something very, very wrong within the core of our beloved team.
This is not just a failing within the defence, football is a team game, you win as a team or you lose as a team, at the moment the latter is the case. In my humble opinion, a slight change in the tactical formation could be the answer, I’ve posted a number of times lately that we would be more suited to a 442 or even a 4312 formation with RvP behind a front 2. Some of our players are being asked to play in positions that are cleary not their forte, (JD as a right back was so wrong that I don’t know where to begin) We need to learn to play more to our strengths, but again, the responsibility of getting the best out of the recources we have falls on one man.
It was plain to see that AW was pissed post game, I hope he ripped the team a new one. We are in a slump of our own making and if the players don’t step up and do it for their manager then I’m afraid the writing is on the wall.
I can’t think of a better manager available to lead our team and I challenge all that does to name that person. That said, football is a result driven industry, yesterday’s achievements unfortunatly mean very little in the crazy game of today.
However bad it gets, I’ll still be an Arsenal fan, I’ve seen a lot worse then this over the years and I’m still confident that we can turn things around and come out fighting. So keep my seat warm on the HT, it’s gonna be a loooooooong season and a test of faith for many. Those who choose to jump ship, goodbye, good ridence, we didn’t want you here anyway. One bad season is not the end of the world and it might even make some appriciate more what we’ve had and what we are bound to have again in the future.
The drink is getting the better of me now, (sorry for all the spelling/gramatical fopars) so I’ll sign off by saying;
We love you Arsenal we do (x3)
Oh Arsenal we love you.
Only one thing to say, johan djourou 🙁
Terrible defending against a very average side- who as we all know was sitting at the bottom of the table earlier in the day.
To concede 4 goals against this lot took a shocking defensive performance- again. This is not an issue just about players- conceding 12 goals in 2 premiership away games shows a need for a complete overhaul of our tactics and defensive organisation.
It is very likely that Arsene Wenger is not capable of fixing this- lets face it he has had enough time and opportunity to do so- and in fact it is a problem we have had for 4 years now and it is getting a lot worse not better.
Arsenal cannot buy any players until January. At this rate the club will be facing relegation before the opportunity to strengthen arises.
Arsene Wenger has to be replaced as coach as soon as possible- or would you rather wait until we are beaten 10 nil by Manchester City and are actually relegated?
Ok, read most of the posts, read the first few lines of most and decided it’s not worth it. Here stateside we get Ian darke and the scous maca but, he said from the beginning forget trying to play football and just but the ball in the box when you can. They did and he was right. All you cunts above me that believe you have the answers… Hire twitchy he can do it, fat Sam he’s good, Martin oneil, titi, keown, db10… This team needs to find it in themselves to get it right, they need to fight for the team and their places in the team, then and only then will they prove their worth and make us all proud. I don’t think the managed fielding a team full of international captains is the problem as much as those players playing for themselves as citeh did last season and now look at them a danger to anyone but the boys have to right the ship themselves before AW can properly place them in a position that is really meaningless considering the free roles that they get to play.
Cheers to holic and H2H and BTM for the worthwhile posts and to the rest of you just move along and hand your kits to wolfie at the door, (s)he may not bite.
We don’t have the players for a 442. Playing Arshavin, Gervinho, Walcott, RVP together is impossible.
We have a lot of wide forwards and strikers, not many (if any) wide midfielders.
RvP is not as prolific without the freedom of a lone role.
And playing 442 against 451 most teams line up also puts us at a disadvantage. You’re defending with 8 men instead of 9, and outnumbered in midfield.
442, I’m afraid, is an outdated formation now. We never really played a pure 442 anyway, but it was possible to line up with 2 strikers in the middle when teams actually played an open game and didn’t congest the midfield. It was easier to dominate teams who did as well because of our fitness advantages (which have vanished).
When we attack, the players aren’t limited to their roles, so a lot of the times the formation we play doesn’t really matter. We see Arshavin popping up in the middle and Theo is often in the six yard box and RvP is sometimes in our own half playing long balls. The focus is on fluidity and movement so the formation doesn’t have quite the effect that people think it does.
You don’t necessarily have to press high up the pitch. You can press a little deeper. This season the focus has been more on keeping our shape and cutting out the passes rather than pressing the ball everywhere. It works well when the team is playing well, just like any other defensive tactic. If you make mistakes you can be punished.
An attacking 442 (or 424 really) always remains an option when we’re chasing the game. It really just amounts to taking off the holding midfielder and replacing him with a striker. And this might be why Wenger prefers the 4141 shape because it is easier to switch between that and a 442.
Even if the gunners beat Shrewsbury 15-0,it won’t ease the worries on the defence.They must perform against epl sides.This season could be the last chance saloon for Wenger.
The epl title is 99.9 % gone. As for the cl,itaint as easy as it looks. The gunners could even fail to qualify to qualify from the group stage.As thins stand and Wenger has to go,it would be better if a new guy comes in atXmas.Then he will have half a season to assess and improve the gunners.
Apologies to anyone who echoed in one way or another my sentiments you are alright in my book, those fellas just stood out in my fit of a few to many (not drunken rage) post these D&Gs must find a grove to go to instead if this (somewhat) HT.
We beat ourselves. It’s as simple as that.
Arsenal beat Arsenal.
I afraid the choker’s mentality is setting in.this kind of collapse has happened too many times for the mental scars to go away completely.i thought the new faces would change this but the team has given up leads too often for it to go away completely.which was why a beer cup win was so crucial.
I saw sagna tweet about a ‘silver gift’ the day before the beer cup final.The team was so confident then.But our confidence was shattered in that game and the newcastle one.The team will have hold on to leads for 2-3 games from now and get a little confidence back.Not necessarily a clean sheet but winning a game by a 1 goal margin and withstanding pressure.
A change in manager at this point would only make things worse.however a few things can be done to make things easier imho
-Press all the way to the keeper.I’ve noticed rvp pressing the centre backs quite well but when they pass it to the keeper he just hangs back and let the keeper choose his target.This might get him to tire towards the end but it will result in the opposition keeper miskick a few goalkicks.We won the games where he did this last season(brum away,west ham away) quite comfortably.I see no reason why he or chamack for that matter don’t do it every game.
-Keep possession when under pressure.when the pressure is growing i’ve noticed the team trying to counter when they get the ball rather than kill the opponent’s momentum.Sometimes the counter works but mostly we give it straight back.
-If the above 2 are done properly there is no need to change the formation.I know most of you would like a change to a 442 but i think the attack was quite good against blackburn.
All we can do is hope kos and song show enough mental stwength to get through this.Honestly the own goals were the kind of goals manure get against teams in the bottom half of the table.On a positive note i think vermalean will replace kos when he gets back so we’ll get through this.
A quality defensive coach is urgently required, plus team needs to go back to school and look at all the videos, and discuss the errors, better positioning, and where holes appear. The players appear to empty their minds of the past failures instead of facing it head on and learning from them. Otherwise they will make the same errors in the next game.
If our lads are true professionals, when they know they have been given Poor instructions will do the reverse on the pitch.
My afternoon at the Arsenal Hellas Club couldn’t have started any better, four Clock End tickets for the 28th in one hand and a large can of Mythos in the other.
Samba said it would be hell and it was. Did you see his commitmenent and that almost crazed look in his eyes.I know he had a bit of a “should have signed me” point to make but I’d like to see a bit more of that with our players
Arsene needs to get their heads up and sharpish!!!
Also not sure about Santos, looked very leggy….
It’s obvious, apart from TV, there are no leaders in Arsenal’s defence. I’m quite surprise because Arsene mentioned that defence was his main priority for improvement during the summer. Intelligent players like Per Mertersacker does not necessarily qualifies as a good leader. Christopeher Samba may be overrated, but he is one hell of a leader and a fighter. Wake up Mr Wenger before its too late. You know what they say, penny wise pound foolish.
this has been going on for some time now, remember when Jose Mourinho first came to manage Chelsea and Arsenal won Tottenham 5-4, when asked about it he said it wasn´t a football score but a hockey score.
in my humble opinion, good teams don´t concede 3-4 goals more than 2x in a season, it´s impossible to win anything when you concede goals at the rate we do
I really don´t think I need to make the case for Wenger´s dismissal, it would be redundant.. any sane person who has followed the team through the last 2-3 years should accept that Wenger´s time is over
I´d like to bring in Martin Keown, someone who´d give the slackers a hard time.. I´d like to see some shouting, like someone actually gives a shit about the club and the honor of playing for it
I always find it hilarious to see how the naysayers come out in droves on this blog whenever we lose but disappear when we obtain a positive result. Just a minor observation as most of these people commenting on this post thus far, I’ve never seen here before. Oh well, to each his own. Nevertheless, I just hope the team can rise from the doldrums quickly. Looking forward to Shrewsbury midweek and Bolton on the weekend. Life goes on! Upwards and onwards Gooners!
You guys are so unstable it’s alarming.
When we didn’t create chances and played our hearts out everybody was commending the effort of the players, now you “want to see people who actually care.”
Give me a break.
Come back here when we’ve won, not just when we lose, it really is becoming a bit boring.
yeah.. that´s the spirit, let´s ONLY talk about the good results.. and how wonderful that 1-0 win against Swansea was.
A measured post holic that must have been hard to write. No solace bar continued support. Thus has it always been. Hair of the dog?
Halli.
I am not one to talk only after good results but I would appreciate you and your opinion a whole lot more if you woulda posted no matter what the result was.
Nobody likes the situation the club is in but believe it or not, AW is STILL the right man for the job.
You and many others come here only after we lose as if to say “we told you so, fuck AW, he should be sacked.”
Well you know what? I’m sick and tired of it. Where is everybody when we win? Not here because they can’t spout AW off, can they?
Had Gervinho put thru the ball to an on-side RVP with a clear open scoring chance, we would have been 1-3 up! It would well have been a totally different ball game by half time and going into 2nd half. Overall the defence failed but the confidence would definitely be on our side and pressure on Blackburn if…….if it were 1-3 at half time!
The Awesomeness of the Song !
said it for four seasons we need quality at the back and wenger has done nothing with the exception of sagna and vermalen.but over those four years who have we bought!silvestre sqilacchi koncienly and still trying with the woeful djourou…wenger never learns from his mistakes does he…look at the goalkeepers same thing why didnt we buy two years ago a quality keeper?but no we suffer with idiots between the sticks,only this season does the current idiot appear to have improved but who is the back up?the same two idiots who most teams would not let within ahundred yards of their 1st eleven.we should have purchased cahill sod the money. the first choice pairing will be mertesacker and vermalen,but the problem vermalen is always injured.thats why we should have bought cahill…. its sad that we have a defence that just cannot defend as a unit this has gone on unchecked,its come to something when we think a 1-0 result against swansea is seen as a positive thing…frsh blood bye bye wenger and roll on the transfer window in january….relegation form..and if anybody says give konscielny time may i remind them of the league cup v brum,he should never play for the arse again but due to the mangers buying of defensive talent over the years we have no choice do we!
I’ll just have one issue: I don’t think the Yakubu offside was marginal, really.
Good dive for the free-kick leading to their second goal too.
But still, totally agree that we can’t blame the refs with that performance in the second half.
And in this respect it’s quite telling that even Wenger didn’t mention all these even if they could have fortunately given a different scoreline.
The players need a good result quick to help them to bounce back to regain their confidence!
Saturday’s game is going to be a crucial starting point!
What of Tuesday’s game?
I’m sure AW was thinking about playing the likes of AOC, Afobe, Ryo etc…will he mix the team to ensure progression?
My guess is that AW will play the youngsters and I’m sure they’ll prove too good for ST!
Sat @ home is a different prop. I reckon Sat is a serious bounce back game which the lads can use to put their work on our defensive frailties to work!
We cannot continue to rely on individuals to have moments of brilliance all of time but need to work on our defensive skills and pressing high up the pitch, as insurance for not conceding more than necessary , if not at all. As I said yesterday, they were unique mistakes. (2 OG’s in one game)
Our squad looked too thin on the ground again on Sat, even after replacing departures.
It was good to see Chamakh on the scoresheet again.
I’ll say it again, Santos is quality on the ball! He’s going to be huge!
WANTED: Ju Young Park…last seen on the bench during the Swansea match. Didn’t even make the bench during the Straw Chewers game. However scored 4 in his last two games for South Korea
The away supporters were excellent again! Had my old dear’s portable rocking! 😉
waleed: “442, I’m afraid, is an outdated formation now.”
I disagree – and if I had a pound for every time I have heard that said over the last 20 years I would buy the club and give Arsene £100m to spend on players 🙂
ManUre won the league last season and reached the final in the Champions League playing what is basically a 4-4-2. And they haven’t done too badly this season either with their 4-4-2.
“The focus is on fluidity and movement so the formation doesn’t have quite the effect that people think it does.”
I agree to a certain extent, but it also has to do with starting positions and knowing where to go in certain situations etc. The advantage of almost all variations of 4-4-2 is that the basic roles are very clearly defined which I feel is not the case with 4-3-3. You can still allow freedom for the players (like for example Pires and Ljungberg who often swapped wings during games or Henry going wide to cut inside etc) but the thing is that you will struggle to find a player – at least European ones – who can not play 4-4-2 in their sleep. It’s about safety and familiarity which is what you need when struggling for confidence.
We could play, for example, like this:
Szczesny
Sagna-Mertesacker-Vermaelen-Santos
Walcott-Song-Jack-Gervinho
RvP-Chamakh
or play Arteta in the middle and Jack on the wing (he has played there a lot, and remember he started his first-team career on the wing), or play Benayoun instead of Walcott, or even play former midfielder Gibbs on the left wing or play Arshavin alongside/slightly below RvP, or… as you can see I don’t agree that we don’t have the players to play 4-4-2.
4-3-3, if you can make it work, is indeed a much more fluid formation and in that case more difficult to defend against but the flipside is that it is also much, much more difficult to play because players need a lot more understanding and communication. I also don’t agree that you don’t need to press high up the pitch for a 4-3-3 to work, if you win the ball lower down the pitch then your wingers will be too far from the goal (becuase if the wingers aren’t there you’ll only win the ball back very occasionally) leaving only one player up top which is exactly what we have seen too often at Arsenal. And when that happens it is quite easy to defend against, just let your two central defenders double up on the lone guy in the middle and the threat is all but nullified. With two attackers you immediately double the workload on the central defenders and you can mix and match between trying the long ball, crossing and building the play from the back. Most often, with our 4-3-3 our only option is to build from the back because we win the ball back too far from the goal.
Anyway, that’s my tuppence worth. Have a pint on my tab!
Got to love all these “I said Wenger should be sacked and look now Arsenal have lost badly I was right me me me” posts.
Really sum up what being a supporter is all about.
Enjoy the view from your armchairs lads, let those of us with a bit of bottle deal with making a racket next match and getting behind the team. Lord knows the poor sods need us right now.
I’ve no objection to anyone who wants to make some measured, considered points about where we, and the manager are going wrong.
I have major objections to anyone who calls themselves a Gooner and seems to be happy, or even worse “vindicated” when we lose a must-win game. Arseholes like that have just got exactly the result they secretly hoped for and deserved.
Great post Holic and roll on the fight back.
Im disgusted with the performance yesterday.
We were very unlucky – 2 own goals, an offside goal, a penalty denied…..yet still we are totally shambolic at the back. We cannot depend on this team to win any game. We only appear interested in the CL matches, which is immature and pathetic.
What annoys me the most is that our defensive problems are actually pretty basic, and with a small change in coaching could be solved. We have good players but our back 5 have absolutely no communication at all. They should all operate in a strict unit, yet as usual we are all over the place. We have at least one misunderstanding in defence in each game. Not good enough.
Liam Brady once said that AW fears if we bring in a defensive coach that our attacking play will suffer, but it seems to me that we are doing things the wrong way around – our team is built on a strong attack instead of a strong, committed defence. I for one would gladly sacrifice a bit of style for some determinaton.
Id be sad if Arsene got the chop, but if these problems are not addressed, then we have no choice. There are managers in the Championship who would not allow shambolic defending like that.
When I saw the title of the post, my immediate thought, was “Newcastle” away last season. That was described by many as a freak result. And yet here we are, a few games into the season serving up another freaky offering.
When teams implode, it is often said that “the manager has lost the dressing room”. Arsene Wenger must then be the most careless manager of all time if he has managed to lose a dressing room which is full of newly-signed players after just a handful of games.
But I cannot help drawing the conclusion that if we keep making the same sort of mistakes with different players, then there has to be another common denominator.
The return of Thomas Vermaelen would go a long way to addressing some of our defensive concerns, and if he gets, and stays fit then our defensive performances will surely improve.
Of more concern is the fact that we have almost half of a new team and yet we still seem to think that we only have to play in 2nd or 3rd gear to win a premier league match.
Thanks for the report Holic.
I haven’t seen any of the match and probably won’t chase the highlights!
So nothing to comment on, other than a shit result. Clearly.
Bloody Mary please…
Holloway2Holland @ 17- I’m not here to pick sides but I think you’re being a tad myopic by saying that Rovers were ‘downright bad’. They lost some fundamental players in the summer (Jones, Emerton) and had to play the game without two of their most creative/productive players in Dunn and Pederson. Ryan Nelsen, another key player. Thought they showed tremendous spirit to come back from 2-1 down to lead 4-2. A lot of players out there played with their hearts out and a few of them had some good, individual peformances-Yakubu,N’Zonzi,Robinson, Dann,Samba, Olsson (the dive notwithstanding). Also credit to Kean for reworking his tactics with the Olsson subsitition. Recognised that Djourou wasn’t a natural right back and sought to beat him for pace with Olsson. The less mobile Rochina departed. And to be fair, we didn’t see much of the long-ball shite we had to deal with under Sam. I recognize that you probably don’t give a shite about Blackburn and so do I, but cut them some slack.
Regarding the Arsenal, a few points.
– What has happened to Djourou? Seems to have come a long way from the lad who had Drogba in his pocket in the December 2010 game at the Emirates? Is he just an intrinsically bad defender who was punching above his weight or had some sort of purple patch from December to February? Or is it confidence issues? One ought to remember that he isn’t a natural centre-half. Started out as a midfielder and AW perhaps believed he could do a Kolo Toure. I wouldn’t know. Nice,affable chap but maybe he needs to tone down on the PR work for Arsenal.com and work on his defending.
– It was good to see Walcott put in a couple of good crosses. Shame no one could get at the end of it. I thought he looked menacing coming on in the second half. Ditto Ramsey who looked fresh and linked up well with Arteta in the 1st hal after missing out on mid-week action. Maybe dropping/resting players ought to give them some incentive.
Cry me a river !! This is not exactly something that have just happened out of the blue these poor performances have been going on For SIX seasons now.Wenger keeps speaking about how to rectify it on the training field but we keep looking worse and worse and worse.When does the talking stop and action being applied,if he cant make them defend properly sack him !! Bob PPaisley,Shankly,Fergie all the greats says the same thing,you start defending from the front.But with powderpuff like Walcott,Chamakh,Gervinho etc set up to attack only the opponents keep running straight through and Song and Arteta are to slow to interfere that is why we keep seeing opponents keep bombing down our left right and centre,it is a disgrace and not one single player puts their body on the line,not one !!!!
This is all of dannys making…. for selling to stan, for spiting Dein, for not welcoming in usmanov…. that’s the real issue… everything in life stems from the top… Our top now says nothing & does nothing except agree murals, agree to sell our stars, agrees to spend not all it makes, agrees to not buy stars, agrees to not compete, agrees to not put in one penny of their own money, agrees to keep things broken the same, buck stops now with silent Stan, not arsene… AW with fizman & Dein were unbeatables, without garbage, everyone is looking & blaming the wrong place… Remember the top at Chelsea before roman? Or Leeds or west ham? Arsene is a manager not an owner, he has proved he is a brilliant manager and proved he is a crap owner as this is what he has been left to do by dannys spite… Not surprised he is silent eh? Fuck off you useless silent yank cunt! We want our arsenal back…
That was a long incubation, holic and I share your pain. Our defence has been our Achilles heel for a number of years. I recall that Keown’s brief coaching association with the club coincided with an impressive defensive record on the way to the ECL final with a makeshift defence.
I do feel that Arsene should swallow his pride and enlist the aid of a defensive coach because this is the culmination of a long downward trajectory in our defensive capabilities. It cannot simply be sorted by a change in personnel, they need GG type drilling on the training ground.
At this end of the table, it’s certainly time to concentrate on the defence!
A large gin and hemlock please barman!
Good morning everyone
Do we have a full time defence coach ? If so who might that be ? thank you.
@Lars
I agree with almost all that you say RE 4-4-2. To play 4-3-3, a team must have mostly intelligent players. We have three or four.
While looking at the incredible double-rainbow on the drive back from Blackburn yesterday, I thought to myself that these defeats no longer sting like they once would. A deeper hurt has built up over several seasons, augmented by a feeling that there is something very, very wrong with our club.
I don’t understand how Song can put in a MotM shift against Borussia Dortmund, a easily better team than Blackburn Rovers throughout almost the whole game then fall to pieces 4 days later in the 2nd half. And from this match, my fears that Koscielny still hasn’t recovered mentally from the Carling Cup Final are more or less confirmed, he’s still a broken man I guess with no-one to replace him unfortunately. A offside goal later in-between those two defensive tragedies doesn’t help either, and wasteful finishing from Mertesacker and Chamakh, even after getting us a 3rd in the case of the latter didn’t help our cause at all. I was demoralised at full-time, because even if we had scored a equaliser, we would of only been fighting for 1 point out of the 3 we comfortably held at half-time.
Many people are calling for Wenger to go, or be sacked, or whatever, but many don’t understand that not many managers are capable or doing what Wenger has done for this club under such numerous restraints, financial and internal. If he goes, we’ll be even deeper in the s**t.
I’ll be going to the next two Arsenal home games, my first Carling Cup and League games, against Shrewsbury and Bolton, North Bank and East Stand and although I wish I could see my team in the flesh for the 1st time in a happier and better situation and even during these troubling times for Arsenal Football Club, I’ll be pulling on the shirt and supporting my team and my manager with my voice and heart, because only God knows how much they need it right now.
M not a fair weather fan..been following what ‘holic writes for years.
as much as i hate prasing mancs in any manner…the 8-2 was different because it was a against a very good team scoring some very good goals.
we beat ourselves yesterday. that was a game we should have won.
feeling numb..feeling hurt…feeling letdown…
want my beloved Arsenal to fightback
we love you Arsenal.
i watched this match in a bar in auckland surrounded by thousands of drunken irish. i was quite drunk myself so woke up this morning hoping i had had a bad dream about arsenal. i saw a rerun this afternoon and it was worse than i thought.
i remember people on this site saying djourou was the future and was slammed when i said he wasn’t . the man is a liability. i think kos has talent but will never make it at this level. meerkat is a poor mans tony adams – a plodder who will be found out too often in epl. having said that he is better than djourou and squilacci so… walcott has no footballing brain so – this is clear time and time again. we can not keep playing him and hope it will work out because he invariably makes the wrong decision. this is omething that is v hard to teach, unfortunately. god knows what szcs and rvp must be thinking. it is a matter of time before our keeper’s confidence goes too – 14 goals in 5 games ? – and then we are truly buggered.
upside was that that arteta scored but i can’t see him lasting a season . sam for chamakh. hard to see many others. there is something seriously rotten at the ems.
Two points. First, Djouruo, Bendtner, Denilson, Diaby, ‘Toto’, Almunia, all these deadbodies earn more than the 45 grand a week Luca Modric gets at Spurs. High reward for mediocrity. No wonder we can’t sell these duds. Secondly, AW vanity means no defence coach. Look at his prickly attitude to the credit given to Keown for his short term coaching spell when we got to the CL final. We now have weak players, weak coahing staff, a weak board. The PL is a remorseless battle zone where any sign of weakness results in your team being ground into the dust. My friends, the chickens are coming home to roost.
You don’t have the first idea what they earn.
Forgot one thing in my last post: I agree more or less with every word in the match report. The only thing I disagree with is Tullamore Dew – I have failed to learn the fine art of appreciating whisky…
goonerholic
i am a big fan of your site and your writing but i am not sure exactly how much they are worth is really the issue. they should not be at our club at any price. they are just not good enough. they will all be on 30kpw for sure and probably more. and i thought that natty’s list was a bit short. squillacci, chamakh, arshavin, gibbs come to mind without even trying. oh and walcott, although not because he hasn’t got ability but he will as i mentioned in #50 he is a very expensive luxury
idka: I think Walcott is getting far too much stick. Sure, he ain’t exactly Messi but he still produces goals and assists with decent regularity. Also, his pace alone often puts defenders on the back foot which creates time and space for others and he has also got a lot better at defending over the last two seasons. He’s still only 21 as well and will probably only keep getting better.
I also think that one of the few things the club has done right this summer is that they tried to offload some of the players who were not up to it and also to change the wage structure. Arsene said he would be active and he has been, we may not have been able to sell all of them but they’ve been loaned out and at least we are not paying their entire wages anymore.
I don’t have the foggiest idea what they earn either ‘Holic, but on any scale of value most if not all are earning a damn sight too much!
However it’s the market Arsenal is in and I do fear a Villa-esque (Aston not Pancho) future with this sustainable investment philosophy that has us shopping in Primark rather than Harrods.
as a fan, there comes a time you worry about every single team u r playin against, even a team of assembled nutjobs with footbal boots, god forbid if this time has come…coz judgin by the shots of the walkin lad i’ve had, i just might not live through it.
Odd that, for the last two or three years, we’ve had players who are great at blowing their own trumpets, but one bad result blows all their confidence away and they slump and slump. It’s been like it for a while. maybe the problem isn’t confidence. Maybe the problem is they just don’t give a toss because they know they can simply walk away if things get too bad.
I thought I would have a more measured approach this morning (afternoon now…Doh!) but am a little disappointed to be picking up a vibe that one can only be on the HT if you have a Wenger till I die tattoo on your chest.
Maybe it’s me.
There’s little doubt that the medium and long term future of Arsenal FC is sound, due to the brilliance of Le Prof. But to question whether he has failings in the short term, ‘here & now’, is completely reasonable IMO.
We have a defence that can only be described as ‘fucking shit’, and questioning the reason for that can only be laid on one mans desk.
Are we just in a run of the most awful luck that the God Luck created? Or are we getting progressively, season by season, worse?
I said towards the end of last season that we were in relegation form. Nothing has changed.
IMO the most uncomfortable question might be how to say thank you and goodbye to the greatest ever Arsenal manager, without being ungracious.
I stand to be corrected on this, but when Keown was earning his badges with us as a coach, he had nothing to do with our run to the 2006 CL final – he had nothing to do with first team affairs.
That said, Id like to see him employed as a full time defensive coach. We seem to lose our shape on several occasions during matches, and thats unacceptable. During the Rovers comeback yesterday, we were literally all over the place, the whole structure/formation went out the window.
We will always leak silly goals and leave ourselves wide open to counter attacks as long as we have no discipline.
If keeping the shape/tactical drilling is AWs weak spot, then he needs help with it, and he must not be afraid to ask for it.
Another few results like that and even the most ardent Wenger supporters will want him out.
Our board needs to wake from their 15 year slumber, and our owner needs to tell us what the hell is going on.
Well ‘Holic, it was worth the wait. Can’t disagree with a word of that.
The only thing I don’t understand about the post is your insistence on apologising for stating how you feel.
I refer you to your own views on apologies 😉
As you yourself know only too well, even we regulars are not merely blind Arsene Wenger sycophants.
The sorts of errors and shortcomings on display yesterday have, sadly, become characteristics of both the individuals and the team that perpetrated them.
There is only one person who can change the motivation and mentality of the team.
The question is, does he have the motivation left to do it, and are the board backing him with the quality he wants and needs to do it.
We will not get an answer to that question, so all we can do is sit, hope and support.
BtM, H2H, Lars, zico – good stuff.
As you all point out though, killer closing down works, so do it.
When we have done it before we have had fantastic results.
4 – 4 – 2 ? Not disagreeing, I have recommended it here myself, but we could play 24 – 24 – 22 and it would be useless unless people actually concentrate and do the job.
Sooo tempted to use the capital letters again there, but opted for the triple ‘o’ instead. Sorry 😉
After the 8-2 we were told “It’s just a statistic, a loss in the loss column etc” I almost choked. I was distraught and not good to be around. And here we are at 4-3. What advice now? Because, sadly this is going to get much worse.
We have got to play to our strengths. Bless Cham as his goal was exactly the style of goal I want him to score. On the end of a cross. Put it in and he will be on the end of it – simple. Give RVP a free role just behind. And use our tricky speedy wingers (we have a few) and play 4-4-2. We don’t have the players now to play 4-3-3. Even with Cesc and Nasri we were always Barca Lite 😉
Wenger is head and shoulders the best offensive coach around – quite revolutionary. But can you see what I didn’t say?
Head up boys, it’s gonna be a rollercoaster!
It was all so predictable wasn`t it? As soon as that quickly taken free kick had to be retaken, I said to a mate that they would score. The only thing I got wrong was my decision to leave the pub as soon as Chamakh appeared. At least he did score a smart goal.
The brutal truth is that EVERY team knows they will get something if they even do something as artless as hoofing high balls into the box behind our high-up-the-pitch static defence. I also fear that the new Zonal marking system will be tested to (our) destruction this season, as it becomes one of Arsene`s new obsessions. Also, did we sign a player called Park Chu Young, am I mistaken or have I missed the injury that keeps him out of first team reckoning. Perhaps the hat trick he scored for his national side has peversly put him behind Chamakh in the pecking order in Arsene`s view.
At least we know where we stand now, and maybe it will be better watching Arsenal without quite the same expectations. We may all discover what it was like being a Chelsea supporter for all decades before Abramovich.
Heh! And Spuds v Liv is all 4-4-2. Both teams playing to their strengths. Two good big men upfront with two good mobile strikers around them. We need to put the pretty football in the pretty drawer until we learn to play that system as well as the best 🙂
It would have been bad enough for Pat Rice to have even been privately thinking that he hated being in charge in Dortmund midweek. To come out and say it publicly is just another abject admission of a complete lack of bollocks at all levels in the first team squad and coaching staff. I’m not sure how bad it has to get for the board to take decisive action. Maybe events at WHL in a fortnight – god forbid.
This excellent blog would be all the poorer if there was not an opportunity for people to post their thoughts for all to digest and discuss.
It’s a forum gentlemen, please consider not everyone will share the same views as you or be as articulate and measured in expressing them.
What we all share however is a deep, passionate love of Arsenal, that’s why we’re here in the first place.
I’m quite sure nobody wants to see us lose to be proved right but losing in the manner we did yesterday has become predictable and that gives fans the chance to say ‘I told you so’.
And until something changes these mistakes will continue.
It’s simply frustration because we’ve got to the stage that the same weaknesses that have been clear for all to see over the last 3 years have not been addressed.
I love Arsenal and I love Arsene.
At various times I loved Bertie Mee, Terry Neil and George Graham but it dodn’t stop me questioning them at some stage.
It is indeed a great forum for sharing opinions, thoughts and viewpoints and – even – some previous experience that we all secretly hope leaks / osmoses into the team so they get better! My 2 cents on this match and what it seems to be representative of over the past 3 years or so.
In the words of an immortal USA basketball Coach, the most basic “fundamental” you ever need to establish in playing good defense is this…..
Defense is 95% perspiration
The rest is just hard work.
Recognizing that in football, tactical awareness is also key, but that quote seems to say a lot about our defending “lapses”.
The issue boils down to one of professionalism in the form of a full 90 minutes of concentration on the defensive side (which Wenger himself cited in the post-match interview and I thought was the most insightful phrase out of his mouth in about 2 years).
While I’m hearing things about 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 and defensive coaching regiments and players in the wrong position and how much pace, etc. It’s all crap until we establish the first fundamental.
Goal 1 – sure Santos kept him on-side, but where was the pressure on the ball? Song and Ramsey need to put in a shift right there and turn him back towards his own goal instead of holding the ball facing our restraining line with no pressure on the ball – able to split the defense with a single touch. And where was the “back pressure” coming from? Non-existent (apparently still “not my job” is pervasive in our team defending).
Goal 2 – love Song, but being un-prepared for the ball to come through like that is unforgive-able. Also no head contact on the initial flighted cross, and no real contact on the attacker during the jump (pub level mistake – one or the other or your not fit to jump for the ball in the back).
Goal 3 – missed header on the initial corner kick. No player following the flight of the ball to put immediate pressure into the point of attack where the low-hard cross comes from (once the ball fell to B-burn).
Goal 4 – Once again Song gets completely left in the dust by the attacker after JD takes himself out of the defending group with a lunge. The fact that Song is defending in isolation in that position – notwithstanding the 3-2 scoreline – tells you all you need to know about the first fundamental of defending.
Repeating an outgrowth of the failure to follow the first fundamental in defending – we find our side defending in isolation time and time again. Look at Djourou’s initial encounter and yellow card. Where was the closing second defender? Where was the back pressure? When you follow the first fundamental of defense and defend like your life depends on it you are never a spectator to an encounter like that.
Causes?
– Are we told on the training ground not to “over-defend” by asking our players to close the ball down with multiple players from multiple angles as it will create fatigue in going forward. In other words if you see Song closing down the ball by himself, your thoughts are “He’s got it” , I’ve got this over here, save my energy and he and needs no help.
– Are we told we are superior enough to the opposition to defend in isolation and when we lose those encounters which results in giving up goals which results in losing matches – we will try to make the slow faster and the short taller in training whether we’re defending against Leon Osman or Lionel Messi and that’s the answer?
– Are we told to only defend with commitment and extra effort against the teams we respect as our equal on the team sheet and the other teams are not good enough and our free flowing football will defend for us (they don’t have the ball). Re-starts and set pieces will take care of themselves?
– If we had scored 6 vs. their 4 would all have been ok and we would not be having this conversation?
So much negativity floating in the air, its a bit difficult to see things in the light of objectivity. The strange thing is, though it hurts, It doesn’t hurt like it once used to and like arseblogger all I felt at the end mostly was a sense of bemusement that had me asking myself if I was going nuts. When we conceded our fourth goal I just couldn’t help laughing…Well, we all know the negatives so i’ll just pick out the positives for me…
Santos has got a sweet left foot with a great cross on it & could prove to be an attacking asset down our left…though defensively I thot he was suspect…
Song, regardless of his bad second half is definitely right up there among the best three defensive midfielders in the premier league…
And please, without despising all the wonderful things he has done for the club,if things don’t get better & quickly too, we have to sincerely start to consider the question:
”Is Arsene Wenger still really the best man for the job?”…
This team’s inability to put a lead beyond reach is just as big a failing as it’s defensive fragility.