Heart On Sleeve Time, Let’s Do Something Positive
Jan 15th, 2012 by 'holic
In a week where I have written elsewhere about the Arsenal side of the sixties I am reminded once again that in life all things are cyclical. I am supporting that side once again.
First things first. What a match that was. Hard, I realise for some to understand, so important it is that ill-considered bile and venom is spewed out to a confrontational audience in cyberspace. I have to start by saying well played Swansea, and what a fabulous change it was to come up against a side so determined to play the game the way we want to.
The home side won the points for a number of reasons. They had the lions share of the possession, not us. They pressed hard all over the park, so did we, with one notable exception. They looked capable of creating and scoring on a number of occasions, as did we. They had the benefit of an outrageous penalty decision when Dyer, fortunate not to cause Aaron Ramsey, of all people, serious injury with an over-the-top challenge on his shin, threw himself to the floor and brought another poor decision from a referee.
Let me emphasise again, as some people are incapable of reading what is said. Refereeing incompetence is a problem for every team in the Premiership. The current crop of top-flight officials are the worst I have seen in nearly half a century, but in their defence I cannot understand why the governing bodies deny them the technological assistance that is surely inevitable. Only a host of further piss-poor performances from officials unable to keep pace with modern athletes trained to take advantage of their incompetence will prompt what is unavoidable.
Now, although Michael Oliver’s hallucination undoubtedly had a bearing on the outcome, the points were earned by the home side because they had more players on form today than the Arsenal. We had one of our first choice back four playing, and his little sleep-in for the winning goal apart, I thought Laurent Koscielny once again showed what a massive player he has become. A word too for Djourou, much-maligned sometimes, but he did a lot of really good work covering inside as the BFG had a day to forget. Credit the Swiss too for the ball of the match to create our second goal.
Our midfield trio too was stripped of two sure starters. We missed Arteta hugely. Benayoun is not a direct replacement and that meant Ramsey sitting a little more than he is used to, or comfortable with. Up front I thought we were in with a shout of salvaging something throughout. At points all three did something. Arshavin’s pass to the skipper for the opener was what we expect to see more of. Along with, of course, a little more dedication to getting the ball back when we don’t have it. Poor Miquel was left badly exposed too often in the left-back berth.
Then there is Theo. As consistent as I have seen up until the end of the year, but now lacking something in this last month. Is it confidence? Is it desire? Let us hope the goal will give him a lift and there is more of the same to come. I have to point out that a tweet of mine seems to have been entirely misunderstood this afternoon. As Swansea fans heckled Theo I wrote…
‘Swansea fans singing “You’re just a shit, Nathan Dyer”. I concur entirely. Should be off.’
I should have realised that at a time of tension people don’t take time to notice the subtle nuances of punctuation. I still maintain the cheat Dyer is a shit. I was not joining the vitriolic reaction to someone who needs a lift. It was written in the stars that they should both score the second goal for their side.
I’ll close by saying once again, not that some will read it and understand. Well played Swansea. You were the better side on the day, and on that basis have earned the three points you have won.
As for Arsenal, in Shenley and Highbury House this week I hope options are being considered to address obvious weaknesses. Some of us understand that our quotas are currently full, and it will be difficult to offload some well-paid underperformers who might create spaces for the two or three players I suspect we could do with if we are not to suffer in the second-half of this season as we did last term. Those who are fit at the moment have come up short in the last two eminently winnable away games. We need reinforcements. Hoping players come back from long-term injury and make an immediate impact is too much of a gamble for a club of our size and resources to be taking.
Calmly, and with no threat of sanctioning available to me, for I will be there win, lose, or draw, rain or shine, I am asking. Please spend some money. It is no guarantee, I know. But if we don’t do something positive to address the situation I fear you may leave yourself open to the acidity of the aggrieved at the season’s end. None of us really wants that. Do we?
366 Responses to “Heart On Sleeve Time, Let’s Do Something Positive”
1st?
Well that cheered me up slightly, getting 1st not the post. Haven’t read it yet. Heh.
Gutted. Our points haul away from home make grim reading.
Off to play 7 a sides – someone’s getting a kicking……
My laptop going crazy.
Well said holic. We have waited far too long watching others progress as we declined slowly and gradually, ultimately leading us to what might be a less than a top four finish, let’s hope not.
Never seen a newly promoted team play like that before. Credit where it is due. All the wailing and gnashing wont change the fact that nothing substantial can change until the summer so best suck it up til then. Onwards and upwards hopefully.
@noel73
The problem is we all have been saying that at least for the last 4 seasons.
No we don’t ‘holic. I appreciate the problems of the January transfer window, but we do need to spend some of that FM. Please Arsene.
usama, we haven’t ‘declined’.
As in recent season the squad is struggling to cope with an injury situation that could not have been foreseen.
Has any other side ever lost all four full-backs at the same time, no. Have we the squad to cover that, no. It is a completely unpredictable set of circumstances, but what I am saying is we have the resources to buy a fully-functioning full-back now, and deal with the surplus in the summer.
We have gambled on Chamakh coming good again, and Park settling. It hasn’t worked. Again the window is open and we can add a proven goalscorer to the squad now it has become clear we need one.
The problem is offloading a couple of players to make room for them. That may be the real issue we are wrestling with. Who would take our obvious deadwood, even if we paid half their wages?
The situation is not black and white.
Well, what can you say? We didn’t play well enough, plain and simple. I’m not particularly interested in finding scapegoats or anything, we lost the game and that’s it. Getting into the top four has just been made a lot more difficult than it should have been, but giving up is not for me.
Having said that, I could not agree more with the last paragraph in the ‘Holic report. Well, I agree with the entire report, actually.
Roll on next Sunday, but first roll on a couple of sandwiches and then off to bed and read a few chapters of “So Paddy Got Up”.
@Holic
I meant decline in terms of quality, selling our best players each summer hasn’t helped us too.
The deadwood situation is the result of poor management. Our deficiencies were obvious in the summer as they have been for the last 4,5 years. Why have they not been taken care off? You might remember i asked you this question in april last year and you asked me to wait for the summer.
It’s almost 2am and i have to get up at 6, but i can’t sleep I’m depressed.(Add crying smiley)
Great article, cheered me right up.
You are not reading what I am saying usama, again. The ‘deficiencies’ you speak of were far from obvious once the August window closed and we were able to play nine of our best eleven every week with a decent bench to boot. The imbalance in where the injuries have occurred, and the failure of the support strikers was entirely unforeseen by anybody but those seeking a cheap shot now.
Hindsight is a dangerous weapon when misused.
I’m looking forward to the reprint of that one Lars.
Very well put. Needed saying – needs doing.
Well played Swansea.
*sigh*
Goonerholic, I have to respectfully disagree because it seems as though you’re blaming all our woes on injuries and ref’s decisions. Of course they don’t help, but we’ve had days like this far too often for too many years now.
“We have gambled on Chamakh coming good again, and Park settling. It hasnβt worked.”
That wasn’t a gamble, that was a pre-meditated policy. The ethos of the last few years has been to buy as cheaply as we can to finish 4th.
We waited a year to get Chamakh on a free. While we were waiting, we only had RVP and Bendtner as strikers. When they got injured Arshavin had to go up front, remember? All because the board/Wenger was too tight to buy a decent striker and wanted to get Chamakh on a free.
Fast forward two years and the same thing is happening again. We bought as cheap as we could (Park) and when he turned out to be even worse than anyone realised we took another cheap option (Henry).
It is this false economical policy that is causing us to fall behind, not injuries or poor refereeing decisions.
@Holic
Sorry i didn’t get your point at first, in my defense sleep deprivation doesn’t help me think. Come to think of you are right. The injuries to our fullbacks have really harmed us and the non-abilities of chamakh and park combined with arshavin’s form haven’t helped us either.
Good night, you are very wise. π
Why are we so skint?
We still take in 60,000 every home game,
we still get the TV money,
we still get the Β£30 mill CL money.
we made a huge profit on transfers again.
Yet Sunderland and the like can outspend us.
Im sorry but i have to agree with gooner steve.
A measured and wise analysis, ‘Holic. I am in a far darker place, though your steadiness has cheered me up.
I think we are now reaping as we have sown. 7 years of underinvestment and bargain basement signings are coming home to roost. Add bad luck on injuries and a strange lack of fight and we are struggling to maintain the standards that we have foolishly taken for granted in recent years. I do think we have gone backwards as a result of our investment policy and have to resort to the bottle tonight to prevent me resorting to the blade.
I’ll buy you a dram though before I fall off the stool. Oblivion here I come despite detox month.
Reading various tweets after the match, you realise just how many morons there are out the there who are ‘keyboard critics’ and probably have little or no knowledge of football or the economics of the sport. How people can call for the head of AW and suggest that we buy this or that player – without any thinking – is beyond me. I would suggest that if these people are not happy supporting AFC, then they can go a little way up the Seven Sisters Road and support a team that hasn’t won the league for over 50 years and also help them fill their aging, tiny(totts) stadium. Good riddance to idiots.
As far as our current team is concerned, I think we are doing quite well when you take into consideration the number of influential players that are missing.
We need our regular left and right backs to return to the field asap. They give us more attacking options and provide assists for RvP. Central defence is more than adequate at the moment with the BFG and Kozzer taking charge while the Verminator is out. In midfield, we were without Arteta today who was sadly missed. Jack has been missing all season and we desperately need him back on form. Aaron is doing well and once his shooting skills improve, he will be lethal. He always gives 100% but sometimes disappoints with the final ball or shot. We seemed to have two spectators on the field today in Andrei and Theo. I really think Andrei’s days are numbered and we need to find a replacement. If Theo thinks he is worth 85K, then he needs to do a lot more on the field to justify it. RvP and TH12 both lacked support from midfield today despite the efforts of Yossi, Aaron, Alex and Tomas. I thought Miquel had a good match playing out of position and feel that he has a good future with AFC.
One major difference that I noticed between the teams today was speed. We seemed to be playing with lead-lined boots. Where have the days of snappy, one-touch football gone? Can we have them back please? Maybe those who are ranting and raving on Twitter could better fill their time lightening the boots of the players?
However sad or angry you are as a result of the loss today, I think we have to hand it to Swansea and admit that they were the better team on the day. They reminded me a lot of the ‘old’ Arsenal today – I felt quite jealous.
It’s 3.40 a.m. here in Thailand and I can’t sleep. One thing is for sure though – I will always be a Gooner no matter how far I live from ‘home’. Those who rant and rave do not deserve to have a manager, team and stadium like we have. They can feck off.
Peter (@ArseLuvver)
Oh, I forgot, well played Swansea. The better team won. The team that showed real desire and an ability to see the danger men and respond to them. A bit of help from the ref notwithstanding, a deserved win. Hope you stay up.
Thanks for taking the time to respond with respect all, regardless of your opinion.
I think usual rules should apply tonight with regard to quoting post numbers. I would advise against it because it is a fair bet one or two will need to be deleted by dawn.
Ever was it so π
Thanks bath.
You have mentioned the magic word. I have a bottle of Tullamore Dew here, perfect for such an occasion.
Aye ‘Holic, that should slide down smoothly and bring an inner warmth that will soften all those cares.
I’m mellowing nicely. Coming round to, “we’ve been shit before, it’s a phase we’ll have to go through again!”
It would be a significant achievement if we make top four, but seriously, in a European Nations Cup Year we need top three. Who wants to play a strong Eastern European side in a qualifier when half your squad is still on holiday?
Forethought please Arsenal. Don’t let it dawn on you too late.
Good point but honestly, I do think it’s gone this season if we have to rely on the current squad with the lack of striking support for RvP. Fourth would be a major triumph. Third would be a bloody miracle. So would an RvP re-signing.
And just when I was coming to terms with breaking my Detox and with mediocracy. *sobs*
Tough game to watch. Reminded me and the missus of games last season when Arsenal seemed to lack the fight and/or desire. Thought those days were behind us.
I think that there are many critical of Theo lately, yet in my opinion the trouble has been Ramsey. Distribution from the middle of the pitch has been very poor, and tonight with Arteta out, it reached a new low. The hesitation, the indecisive movements on the ball, break up so much of our play. Can’t say that I have a solution. Must assume that the return of Jack will help.
Difficult times for AW knowing that there are so many talented players coming back from injury in the second half of the season. Makes it very tough to justify spending even if decent players were available.
I agree that we missed Arteta. The loss of a cool head to reliably recycle the ball in midfield and ensure that we kept possession was critical. But for all the talent returning there is none that will aid/replace RvP’s goalscoring.
Chamakh is less reliable than Sandra Redknapp and Park’s contribution is clearly on a par with Clive Allen’s for us. We need help in the striking position and good as he is, TH12 is not the answer for the rest of the season.
*If things don’t change, they’ll stay as they are.*
I’m not going to be popular with you ‘holic after this post, or maybe one or two others, however I shall make my point in a polite and reasoned manner and request all who respond do so appropriately.
Talk of addressing obvious weaknesses is valid and for me there is one obvious weakness and that is our once glorious but sadly now tragically flawed manager.
Offloading well paid underperformers is sensible but somebody has been paying them too well and selecting them for too long whilst underperforming. And persisting with injury jinxed players too.
For example the long vaunted Walcott and Arshavin have had too many opportunites and consistently dissapoint for a top top club. Three ganmes, a month, maybe two at the most is a run of poor form. 12-18 months? No way.
I have said previously that our summer’s dealings was gross mismanagement and I stand by that. We needed to push on from last season, retain our best players and add to the squad.
Did we do that?
No.
Instead we clung onto Cesc and Nasri in the manner of a desperate jilted lover and when it became evident they were leaving we splashed about like a drowning man, clinging onto anything that remotely resembled safety.
Wenger is paid 5 (or is it 6?) million pounds a year to manage this great club. It’s up to him to foresee what is happening and deal with it. We are in the top 6 richest clubs in the world yet fans still use our lack of financial clout as a valid excuse as to why we can’t compete.
Swansea are a great example of how a club can compete beyond it’s income, how to get the maximum from what you have. Their record signing, Danny Graham cost three and a half million pounds and their crowds are 20’000 maximum.
Of course there will always be a one off shock result in football but let’s be honest these are no longer shocks or one offs. I will always revere Arsene for his almost unparalled achievements, everything from the stadium, training grounds and methods, to his brand of football and achievements on the pitch.
Sadly we’re now like the small print on the old endownment policies, *past performances do not guarantee future profits*
I finally lost faith in Wenger when he told us that qualifying for the champions league could be thought of as success.
I’m sure RVP is an intelligent man as well as ambitious. He only has a few more years at the top and I’m sure is desperate to win the title and have a crack at The Champions league.
And please don’t hide behind injuries as an excuse. Every year key players are injured. Diaby has been a drain on the clubs wage bill for 5 years yet he’s still on the books.
In closing we are (largely thanks to the previously brilliant Wenger) in the priveleged position of being one of the wealthiest clubs in the world.
Are we making the most from our resources?
I am of the opinion that we have gone as far as we can. Change is required and inevitable. A fresh approach and with it once again ambition to be the best is the order of the day.
*If things don’t change, they’ll stay as they are*
Swansea were like Borussia Dortmund.
Evening,
Regarding the state of our club I think we need to take a leaf out of Barca’s books and go on a Swansea dawn raid. If Le Boss is looking to recruit players (and I really hope he is) I think every single one of those Swansea players are our ‘type’.
I hope the talk of their LB (Taylor) is serious and I thought there RB (Rangel) was superb. The way Williams stepped out of defence and read the game was crazy at times. I would take Sinclair and or Dyer. The midfield trio were all tidy players and the sub at half time looked good too. The level of composure they showed was a credit to the manager and the belief he has instilled in the players.
Fuck the hating. Swansea were better. Some of our players need to look in the mirror and asked some really hard questions. Ditto for the boss. Ditto for the board. However I think we’ll be discusses the same issues we have done from Jan – May for the past 5 seasons.
On a slightly brighter note, yesterday the Spuds were the first team in premiership history to concede 1,000 goals (courtesy of Fox Soccer).
Perhaps you can pick your top 3:
3. Kanu/L.Young flick and smash
2. Wrighty cross, Dennis cut inside and smash in front of the North Bank
1. Box to box from TH14 then full length of the pitch to slide out in front of the inbreds….statue quality I think!!!!
Geoff, sad as I am to accept it, I recognise you might be right.
A few points:
1. Well played Swansea. We weren’t outmuscled
2. I think the criticism of Dyer is a bit harsh. It’s not as if Arsenal haven’t won cheap penalties over the years. He didn’t deliberately pirouette into Ramsey’s leg in order to fall over.
3. We missed Arteta’s cohesive qualities. Everytime Benayon starts, he confirms why he is an excellent sub.
4. It’s all about the full-backs. Yes the are serious issues about long-term investment, strategy and freeing up squad places, but tactically Arsenal are dependent on two attacking fullbacks dominating space, which frees up space for the three forwards. Djourou and Miquel are not dynamic fullbacks who can bomb up and down the pitch. To make matters worse, Arshavin does not track back, Song has to get across to cover, leaving us exposed in the middle of the pitch.
5. What was the tactical plan after Arsene made the substitutions. Can anyone explain?
6. Wojciech SzczΔsny is 21 and there is no competition for the 1st choice goalkeeping spot. How is that going to keep him focussed and improve. He is still a work in progress; his distribution needs working on and he could have done better with the winner.
7. Time for the Ox to be told he is starting the next 4-5 games.
8. On a positive note, I am convinced Joel Campbell is going to be the real deal. Something to look forward to next season.
For me, this season was made complete by witnessing ‘The Second Coming’ last Monday.
Nice post ‘Holic, you try to sound calm and I guess we all appreciate that, certainly I do. What I find annoying especially for today’s game, is that we do not try to balance the team according to our opponent. Against a side that has pacey wingers and that is their main weapon, we put 4 classic CB. Nor Miquel nor Djorou are adequate choices for this type of game. Why not try with Yenaris, he was great against Leeds. Why not a different formation with 3 at the back or something. I don’t know, I am not an expert, just a depressed fan. but when you have so many injuries, stubbornly sticking to the same old tactics, and same old players is so predictable and ends like it ended today.
Bathgooner, it saddens me too.
Geoff, understand your view, and defend your right to express it here with civility.
I don’t agree though, that Arsene is the one who has decided how much is spent and when.
To throw that charge at him when you (and indeed I) are not party to his terms of reference from the board is what I question.
I don’t doubt he was fully in agreement with the need to curtail expenditure while the stadium and other developments were under construction.
Post sales I happen to believe he is now fighting to get proper funding for the core business of the club. The squad, in other words.
I am persuaded that he proposed even more comings and goings last summer than actually happened. I am convinced he is trying to address weaknesses in this window.
I don’t insist that anybody agrees with me. Only that you consider what is likely before taking aim at a man I believe is publicly defending the club’s position while internally fighting to get additional resources.
‘holic, I’ve considered everything that was/is likely before airing my views tonight.
And for long enough too. You may believe he is publicly defending the club but that is just your guess on the situation.
I’m not guessing anything, I’m going on what my eyes have told me for the past few seasons now.
What I love about your blog is that it is virtually unique among Arsenal blogs as a forum for fair debate. My opinion may be the polar opposite of yours but we share a common love of this great football club and, like you I am desperate to see us play well and win.
I just happen to think, as Gooner Steve eloquently says earlier in the drinks that this is the same scenario two years on, groundhog day with the same mistakes being made and I’m saying how I feel.
Geoff, one thing I am saying is my belief is not a guess. I chose my words carefully. When I say ‘I am persuaded’ I mean by people who are better informed than me.
The best form of defence is attack . Miquel or Djourou are not full backs and very rarely went forward, they tried but it is not natural to their game, as consquence they attacked from all fronts without any fear of been exposed. they were certain our full backs will certainly not cuase any trouble. Sagna would have certainly made a difference so would Santos or Gibbs. The FA cup would do nicely this year
Well, I just hope we don’t hear any of this “lack of maturity/concentration/focus/ (insert whatever cop out you like)” crap from AW.
I am completely sick of hearing that shit.
Fair play, Swansea.
BMBD.
Back from Swansea after what felt like the longest drive in history.
Haven’t had time to catch up on the cyberspace verdict (or any back drinks) yet, but ‘holic, thank you for a very measured response.
Now I don’t know what that game looked like on the telly box, but in person, it was bloody amazing.
Swansea played us at our own game, and did a throughly magnificent job. As for the pelanty – you win some you lose some. That did not lose us this match, we lost it ourselves.
Dyer was stunning. In fact the whole Swansea side were – fast, tricky, pinsharp passing. And crucially, they just went for everything – whenever we got the ball there was one or two waiting to take it off us. I texted someone last night that I was very pessimistic about this one, and I wish I’d been proved wrong. Fair play to them, they wanted those three points and they deserved to get them.
For our part, I realise it’s well nigh impossible to get anything going when they pressed us so hard and we have no competent fullbacks to push back at them; even if Theo and AA weren’t playing at half speed we’d have struggled. Simply put, they out passed us, out ran us and out played us. And their team cost a fraction of what ours cost to put together. I’m not a big fan of stats, but I’d love to see them for this game because I suspect they beat us in every area.
The one ray of light today was the Ox. I think there can be no further justification for keeping that kid on the bench week after week. He’s talented, determined and desperate to make a difference. Just like Swansea were today.
Please lay off criticism of Miquel or Djourou. I think the only back who had a questionable game was BFG.
The boys weren’t up for it. (How many times have we seen that?) Did you see how Swansea pressed and worked?
Injuries and referee decisions aren’t the reason we find ourselves where we are (sorry to disagree with you, Guv’)…for many reasons, we are EXACTLY where we deserve to be.
BMBD.
‘Holic, I am persuaded.
The man is no fool.
f I can see the problems, then so can he.
I hope he’s not as suicidal as I am cos I cannot see a quick fix here.
Hmmm. Arsene Wenger talks about special circumstances losing us two games, sounding like a paranoid loon, and spends a large chunk of the game sitting on his own, away from the subs, coaches and other staff, in a world of his own. He should be relieved of his duties for his own sake.
As for the referee, I don’t care what the replay shows, in real time it looked like a penalty and, as real time is what he sees the game in, the decision, although wrong with replay assistance, was fair enough.
I’m worried about the goalkeeper, to be honest, although the whole side was fairly non-existent for far too long in the game. Worrying signs of the usual droop following bad results.
Holic
Great piece and as you say it’s certainly easier said than done.
I’m in between here I’m angry with this result no questions asked! A must win game turned into defensive shambles especially for the third.
No point getting the blood pressure raised anymore…
Beat Utd on Sunday and hope Citeh tear the LWC’s a new one and the world will feel a better place.
Wenger talking on MOTD:
‘We lost under special circumstances’
Lee Dixon on MOTD:
‘Arsenal can’t defend’.
Geoff from the sofa:
‘Goodnight, time for bed, BOIIINNG’
In the unlikely event Mr Wenger decided he had had enough and jacked it all in tomorrow.
Who are the likely replacements?
Well reasoned holic. I felt we were perhaps a bit guilty of relaxing after the captain’s opener, but even if we were sharper Swansea were still very good value in wide areas where we are simply deficient at the moment.
A bit of an odd decision to go to the home patch of a team known for keeping the ball, and resting the player who has made it possible to keep the ball ourselves. Even if I agree Arteta needs a rest, surely today wasn’t the best time to sort that out.
Great shout on Djourou and Koscielny, probably our best performers. Ramsey is gassed and has been for about a month, which coincides nicely with our run of form of late. Stepping back it’s amazing he has been as influential as he has up to now, given his relatively recent comeback. Too much has been asked of him in Wilshere’s absence. Jack is one I hope does return quickly and can make an impact pretty quickly, despite your words of warning. We need him badly.
I suppose the good side of things is that we have a truly massive match upcoming to return the focus that is obviously lacking at the moment, and a week to prepare for it.
I don’t get some gooners on here comparing the money spent on Swansea and Arsenal. They are 10 points behind us. people seem to forget we got oudone by Blackburn. I know the likes of Brendan Rogers and his players bigging up their triumph but let face it This is not the Arsenal we have known for many years. Come May they will possibly get sucked in to the relegation battle. We’ve seen it all before. Blackpool comes to mind.
Holic, You are my shining star of the day. BTW lads, while you all console yourselves with the bottle, remember we are still in the fight for the CL and FA Cup. We still can make top 3 in the PL. There is too much Irish in me to give up hope.
Bang on post Holic.
So bang on, in fact, that you’ve saved me writing anything more, all I had to say is already covered.
Here’s to better days.
Cottage and Liberty – That’s who we are now.
My IQ is so big for my head that it went to much bigger head (good luck, bigger head) but even before the bastard left me I could not point a finger to anyone in Arsenal for years of problems. I keep asking myself “Who’s to blame?”
Is it Wenger or “Ebouela” virus? Or is it Vivas, Jeffers or Lupoli?
It’s Lupoli, dammit!
One of the most ridiculous, indefensible penalty decisions I’ve ever witnessed. Absolutely absurd…much like our effort, really. Completely unacceptable performance today.
That said, Swansea earned their three points today, I have no real complaints with anyone besides our own players. You never like to lose a match, but if it’s going to happen, I’m glad it was to a side that tries (and succeeds) to play football like Swansea does. All indications are that they’ll be sticking around for at least another year, and it’s a better and more entertaining league for their presence.
Not going to add any more to what already has been written here tonight.
To me is back to basics nothing else. We panic when we defend hence Dixon said what he said on MOTD.
Too many pointless passes forward and misplaced ones too, for a team like Arsenal that is not good enough and it happens too often for my own liking. Swansea played simple triangles and out passed us to death, we struggled at times to get out of our own half! As Arsene said great team it may be but this so called great spirit has let him down big time this late afternoon.
Sometimes he puzzles me because he should just tell how it is everyone saw what happened why don’t he for once say we were not good enough and it’s not acceptable instead of saying “we lost under special circumstances” which make him look as he really is loosing his touch.
I’m going to stop now I have thought about this game all evening and it’s giving me a headache now! Tough and disappointing as it may be I will be still here cheering the lads next weekend! However it would be nice if some of these issues could be addressed with real and visual changes. Talking doesn’t win you shit and there has been way too much of that melancholy!
As I mentioned in the previous drinks, Swansea out Arsenal-ed us. fair play to them. They were half a yard faster in pace and thought.
Anyone notice how difficult Ramsey seems to finds it going back to Wales? He seems to try so hard he freezes up.
Did we miss Arteta today! Song was only half the player he has been this season without him.
Spending money, per se, isn’t necessarily the answer to anything (see Carroll, Torres et al). But making sure we have quality in depth is. Even though we have lost four first team full backs, and then one of our makeshift ones, how come there aren’t players from the reserves who at least have grown up playing the position to call up?
Once last thing with such bad start to the season and so much hard work the lads put into where we are, it is obvious to say that we ignore and disrespect lesser teams on occasions and those lessons are never learned….
A large glass of water please barman my detox is still going strong!
I`m sorry but I really fail to see any positives from today.Our squad looks thread bear.I acceapt we have injuries in defence but elsewhere no.Arshavin simply awful,Benayoun not good enough and that applies to Walcott too(I know he scored) but the overall contribution was poor.
We are clearly not going to get the fourth spot and that will be a disaster,We need to bring in first team players now,papering over the cracks with Henry is little more than a joke.
If this carries on RVP will be off at the end of the season,there will be no CL football and will we begin to spend then?
Brilliant post Holic. It’s always good to see some sanity prevail and the true meaning of the word ‘supporter’ shine through. See you with an umbrella for the rain and a guinness for the shine!! UTA!
On MOTD 2 they talked about Swansea taking ‘a big scalp’, I think they are wrong. It saddens me to say it, we are no longer a big scalp. A big team expects to win every game. Today, I was hoping against hope for a draw. Extremely poor discipline after the equaliser ended my hopes. Perhaps the players were shocked that Theo had scored!
We are a mid-table team that over-achieved Sept – Dec. We won’t get 4th place now. Farewell (or adios!) RVP, and how will we attract top talent to play in the Europa League next season?
A balanced report holic. Some I agree with, some I donβt.
First of all I will congratulate Swansea. I thought they outplayed us in almost every aspect. They were sharper, had more desire and generally showed that they were a lot more up for it than we were. That is something that is not acceptable and is probably my biggest disappointment. I take all the points on the penalty. It was not a pen and we have had the rough end of yet another decision. Watching it on TV it certainly looked a pen first time. Closer inspection revealed the truth. Mistakes happen; it is just unfortunate that we are not getting the rub of the green.
I fully accept that no full backs have hampered us massively. I do not know any team that would survive as effectively minus every full back. That said, having no full backs had no bearing on the fact that we gave the ball away far too often and had no bearing on the horrendous errors that resulted in their second and third goals. It also had no bearings on the lack of creativity or pace shown today. AW has said that he does not understand it. If he doesnβt then heaven only knows how we are to make any sense of it.
It is all pretty simple for me. I hate to say it but I have been banging on about it for years. I tend to agree with the majority of what Bath, Geoff and my namesake Steve says. We have debated this numerous times. The squad simply just does not have enough quality in it. Three years ago we were not good enough. At the start of 2009/10 season we were told that all was well and that the squad was good enough. Clearly it was not. AW stated in his programme notes against Citeh in April 2010 that he had identified the weaknesses, was already talking to targets and hoped to have replacements in before the world cup. At the start of the 2010/11 season we were told that the squad was good enough and to judge at the end of the season. Clearly again it was not good enough. The same old failings were evident. The summer of 2011 in my humble opinion was just a complete and utter shambles. I agree wholeheartedly with Geoff@31. It was total mismanagement and inexcusable in my view. I have no idea who individually is to blame at the club. Quite frankly I am not that bothered. As a club it was a shambles and as a club it needs addressing.
I have always believed in evolution and not revolution. The fact is that we have not evolved. I do wonder how of this is down to board members thinking that 4th every year is a given and therefore acceptable. Is that why we have not gone the extra mile? Who knows? Three years ago the squad needed adjustments. That did not happen. That trail has continued. My opinion is that we have been treading water for some time now. I now feel we are actually going backwards. Others are catching us. We have lost seven league games already this season. That is a third. It is not that long ago that we only lost four in total over two seasons. Now I know there are some who drink here that can work wonders with a stat or two but I fail to see that as progress.
I have said this countless times but I do not think we have a right to think we are automatically the best. What I do expect is for us as a club to be the best we can be. As a club I think we fall a long way below that level. The club as a whole can be managed a lot better in my opinion. Quite frankly I find the whole situation very frustrating indeed.
The next 17 games are probably the most important in the clubβs recent history. If failings and weaknesses are not addressed in the next fortnight then the knives will be out. If we end the season out of the top 4 and still with 65 million sat idle in the vaults then there really will be carnage. The time is now for those who are so privileged enough to wear the shirt to do so with pride. The time is now to stand up and be counted. Not to start worrying if 65k a week will suddenly warrant something near 100k a week around the negotiating table.
Holic good post, we were outplayed and out fought, Swansea thoroughly deserved the win, and the scoreline flattered us despite their bullshit penalty.
Interesting to compare Arshavin and Walcott with their two wide men, I know who I think are better and compare the relative expenditures…
I’d be amazed if we managed to do any worthwhile transfer business in this January window, because clubs don’t want to sell good players at this stage of the season.
This is the payback for the gross incompetence during the Summer transfer window when we had the mass of panic buys including tossers like Park coming in on the last day of the season.
Hopefully the loss of the Champions League revenue (there is absolutely NO chance of a top 4 place, to think otherwise is frankly delusional) will lead to a clear out of the dead wood (we all know who they are) and a focus on some effective early trading to get 2 or 3 quality additions on board.
Must admit I’m fearful for the Man U game next week.
Steve, we have to have a beer. Don’t agree with all you say, but much of it shows your love for the club through and through, and you have some fair points that provoke thought.
Still think we ll make top four somehow
Won’t pop in here for two or three days
But how good were swansea??!
Time to support coz it is going to get ugly
As most of the points with regards to why we lost the game has already been covered in previous drinks, and, because I have already given my opinion during, and, at the end of the game, I will restrict myself to refuting a couple of the old chestnuts that keeps coming up whenever we get beaten:
1). The weaknesses have been obvious for the past several years and everyone has been saying so but Wenger is too stubborn yada, yada, yada..
– Yes its true that we have had some under-performers that the manager has overly loyal to but consider the hew and cry against players like Song and Kos not so long ago. Think of the overwhelming cry for us to buy the Fulham goalkeeper (for “just” the 6-Million Pounds Fulham wanted). Let me ask this question: How much are the players (Song, Kos, Szecny) Wenger stuck with worth now?
2). Wenger is cheap and keeps shopping in the bargain basement – We are reaping the rewards of not spending proper money (Millions of $$$) on the best players on the market yada, yada
– I will just say in response to this Chestnut: Anelka, Vieira, Petit, Cesc, RvP and some of our all time greatest players never cost that much, on the other hand the manager has never had much luck with his expensive signings (think Jeffers, Arshavin etc)
3). The manager and the board lack ambition, are just content to finishing 4th, refuses to buy replacements for injured players yada, yada, yada
– At one time or another the Club has gone in for most of the top stars now playing in the PL: Essien, Cech, Drogba, Mata, Silva, to name a few. The problem is not lack of ambition but value for money. Wenger is a trained Economists (maybe that’s his real problem) and he understands market forces – unlike Mancini & Harry et al – and knows that once you pay over the odds for a player you set off a chain reaction: you inflate the transfer market, and, you inflate your club’s wage structure because you have to offer higher wages to high cost players etc…
The “just” content to finish 4th Chestnut is the most silly accusation of all. First finishing fourth is not as easy as people are making it out to be: just ask the tiny totts, cesspool and shitty how many times they have done so in the past 14-years. Also one shouldn’t really have to say it but all the CL clubs are dependent on the revenues the competition provides and every other club “wish” they were in such a position to “just ” take finishing 4th for granted like the Arsenal..
The injured players will all come back, they are still under contract, how many players in a given position can the Club carry, how many players that can adapt to our style of play are available on the market at the price we want to pay….these are just some of the many considerations the manager has to balance every day. Do we really think that we could do a better job than the Manager?
Rant over…
P.S. Nice work Holic with the article & your responses..
I look forward to it holic. It will be an honour and a privilege.
GT. Re your points.
1) AW stated that he had identified the weaknesses and was dealing with them in April 2010. 6 Million for Mark Schwartzer???? Where did you get that from? We offered 1.5 million. They wanted 2.5 million. Of the players you quote I would agree with Song. I will happily hold my hands up and say I did not think he would make it. As for Kos and Woj, Kos has only been at the club for 18 months and Woj is in his first full season. According to reports we paid close to 10 million for Kos.
2) “Anelka, Vieira, Petit, Cesc, RvP and some of our all time greatest players never cost that much.”
Sadly all players brought to the club the best part of 10 years ago.
It is not about the cost. It is about the quality. Who replaced Anelka, Vieira, Petit and Cesc?????
That is exactly my point. Not that long ago we had genuine world class players. Now only RVP remains. Who scores the goals if he gets injured??????
3) “At one time or another, the Club has gone in for most of the top stars now playing in the PL: Essien, Cech, Drogba, Mata, Silva, to name a few. The problem is not lack of ambition but value for money.”
You have answered your own question. If we want the players and they are in demand then they come at a price. We either pay the going rate or move on. My argument is that with 65 million plus sat in the bank just a couple of those may well have made a big difference.
It is not about the price we want to pay. If only it was that easy. We can not hold on to the likes of Cesc and Nasri having demanded a certain price, only to moan when we are quoted high prices by clubs reluctant to sell their best players.
As I said earlier, for me it is all about being the best you can be. Do you think we as a club are the best we can be??????
Snowy @ 43: Nice one..Yes that’s pretty much how it looked to me on the telly too mate. Wonderful game I thought. NO bookings and apart from the penalty incident no real controversies either..
@ Steve T: I was not really addressing anything that you said – I took so long putting my thoughts together that I only saw what you wrote after I have posted mine. Never mind. I hear you and have no argument with your point of view. I am just sharing mine..
…and for the record: no I don’t think that we are as good as we can be but neither am I fixated on the alleged 65 Million as I am sure that it will be spent on the right players when they become available.
Looks like we’ll have to win the Champions League this year to retain our place in the competition next season.
No problem then. Bring on barca.
COYG
On a serious note.
The whole problem for Arsene is: Do he want to feel better now or later?
i.e
Should he buy a full back now or wait for 2 weeks and risk dropping more points?
Should he pay over the odds for a striker now or wait till summer for a much better price?
Should he bench Theo now and risk his contract and the development of OX or hope Theo sorts himself out and becomes the player he is capable of?
Should he buy another creative midfielder now (not a priority) and risk “killing” the likes of Ramsey and Frimpong but signal a statement of intent to help sort out the contractual situation of RVP?
Should buy squad players to replace arshavin, diaby, bendtner, vela almunia, squillachi and the likes asap and risk another complete makeover for the team to adjust with or wait for the likes of Afobe, coq, miyachi to organically replace the deadwood?
Well i for one am glad i am not the one taking the decisions, but i will say this, Arsene and us the fans have for a long time persevered with a certain policy that flatters to deceive. What more bad could happen with a few gamble buys? At least it will buy him some time?
Think i have rambled a lot but the solution to this mire is a lot complex so that it can be solved in 6 months or an year. Buckle up ladies and gentlemen this is going to be a really bumpy ride.
I just want to say something in context of the game rather than looking at intrinsic flaws in the way the club is run. One ought to consider that Swansea have one of the best home records in the league. They’ve only lost once this season, I think, to United-1-0. They have, arguably, the best goalkeeper in the league-and the stats provide some credence (the guy has the most number of clean sheets in the top flight) and I think much praise has already been lavished on the way they play the game. Besides we were without 6 of our first 11 players (Arteta, Wilshere, Vermaelen, Santos, Sagna and Gervinho) and I not sure there is another team in the current top flight that are competing without six of their first 11. Point is, prima facie, it was always going to be a difficult game and ideally if one is willing to look beyond that fact that they were just promoted, and consider their merits and our weaknesses, I think one ought to be happy with a point. I am sure there are those who will suggest that we are ‘The Arsenal’ and voice all the associated bravado and all, but I hope people will show some perspective. So in the end we didn’t get the point, which is disappointing, of course, but sometimes you just have to accept that we were second best. I don’t feel particularly frustrated after yesterday’s game as I had these rather muted expectations, for reasons mentioned above. On the other hand the games against Wolves and Fulham were games one would have expected us to win and that ofcourse didn’t happen. So in the end it’s a shame that we had to play Swansea at this juncture, when we’re not on the greatest of runs but there’s no great shame in losing to a team as impressive as them. What is worrying though is that since the Wigan game, in early December, we have not quite played with the old Arsenal swagger. Just managed to sort of scrape out wins by the odd goal.
I have to wonder why Arsene couldn’t buy the type of players who he thinks would suit Arsenal, but we all know the answers already. My real question is what sort of quality Arsene wants to see in the player ? If RVP is world class or whatever, do we have other world class players on the wings or from midfield to feed him ? You can’t service a F1 with crappy mechanics. Arsenal’s recent performances are downright horrible, but we have to be reasonable and understand a team can’t be turn into greatness overnight. So the obvious question next would be what is the plan for Arsenal, present and future. I’ve nightmares of seeing Arsenal collapses again in the second half of the season like the last. It could happen.
I’m also a frustrated gooner but I won’t do the after-match hand-wringing despite playing badly and being unable to match the pace of the Swansea side at times.
We were off the pace in an away game. It’s not the first time, it won’t be the last. Great match to watch I thought. We just have to simply keep moving and attempt to keep improving in order to secure top 3/4. I believe it’s more than possible looking at the fixture list.
As for the attempts to imagine what is/has been happening at boardroom level, I believe we won’t know the true reasons for our poor performance in the transfer market until some years have passed. I won’t speculate as it’s basically a waste of time.
Wenger has been carrying non performers for far too long.
look at what SAF did to degea their goalie. dropped him. their whole team saw that and presto they start winning again. they know what happens when they let their manager down.
players can play poorly time and time again and yet be assured of their place in the team.
i was so pissed off last night. have been supporting this team since late 70s. even when theo scored i was so angry at the half hearted performance from most of the team.
lets hope we dont get stuffed at home next week.
As a glass half ful person, even I have to despair sometimes. Apart from the obvious injuries and poor refereeing decisions that are dogging every team in the League, my despair is largely due to the performances of Arshavin and Walcott. Yes, I know Arshavin made the pass for RVP’s goal and I know Theo scored, but one moment of creativity does not make up for the remainder of a game being non-existent. This is a team game, and when you are dependent on your wingers tracking back and supporting full backs who are not first choice, you need them to do more. If you add these two players to Yossi, who was also pretty poor yesterday, then I think the defence comes under greater pressure and it is inevitable mistakes will happen.
What I think is obvious to all is we desperately need the return of our proper full backs and we need Theo and Andre to step up to the plate or replacements found. We cannot carry them in the way we are doing at present. I think Theo can do this, but I think AA has lost it totally.
Forward with optimism I think. COYG!
Some better news at last fellow holics. I have just read the the details of Arsenal’s pre season tour to Nigeria are almost complete. Wow, that is certainly a relief for me. A really big weight off my mind. I was really beginning to worry. Glad to see we are getting our priorities right at long last. I mean, there must be a 12 year old in Lagos that has a better chance of playing than Park????
Just saying like.
abb @ 53, really? π
Great spirit Ms.
Wow, a lot of negativity on here… Although with the threat of RvP ‘oppin off with no trophy and 4th place, and the Captain’s Armband becoming a bit cursed with the last person to wear it leaving at the end of the season, we still have to believe in the club that we all love. 17 games to go, 51 points to be had, improbable but not impossible.
Up the Arsenal.
Steve T, I could play ahead of Park π
Wouldn’t mind going home to Nigeria either :p
And I’m worried about Mertesacker’s finishing, 2 yards out, there shouldn’t be anybody in the team that can’t finish in that position.
Out of the summer signings 5, he’s the only one who hasn’t put ball to net. Quite worrying.
And for my post @ 80, I realise that its not all rosy and changes need to be made but I’m 100% that a 3-2 loss to Swansea away in our injury condition won’t change anything. ‘indifference’
Terrific write-up ‘holic – you made a very disappointing result seem not quite so bad.
GS @17, PG @ 22 and ST @ 63 all make very sound comments.
Swansea were better than us, both the stats and results seem to prove it. Why were they better than us should be the question that is addressed. Is it that they were better man for man than us? I don’t think so – well not in significant numbers. It seemed to me from my arm chair that they played with more confidence(!) and cohesion. They were also better balanced as a team. As soon as an Arsenal player had the ball he was immediately closed down and challenged by 2 or 3 Swansea players, this put us under pressure and led to passes going astray. When we lost the ball, too often we seemed to back-off and leave it to just 1 of our players to try to win the ball back and when/if that happened too often our player was isolated without a team mate to pass to and the ball was lost again.
I don’t want to pontificate at length but without proper full backs is continuing to play 4, 3, 3 doing us any favours? Again yesterday we were over-run in midfield. Playing 4, 4, 2 would give us another body in midfield and more protection to the back 4. It would also allow 2 strikers which would take some pressure off RVP.
The reason AW is finding it much harder to recruit the right players is because everyone has caught up on the scouting front. When he first arrived here he had a great knowledge of foreign – particularly French – football and footballers, and they also new him so he was able to recruit gems like Henry, Pires, Petit and Vieira.
Those days will never return and winning and finishing in the top 4 will become ever more difficult – just witness how tight it is amongst the top 5 or 6 today but I genuinely feel that we are not that far off when every player is fit and available but the squad also needs strengthening in certain areas and with players better than those they replace/augment if we are to launch a viable season long challenge. January is a very difficult time to do this, so don’t hold your breath. As for Henry – we really mustn’t expect too much.
Cheers ‘holic. Spot on as usual mate. My worry is I really dont think there is that much out there available to make an immediate impact even if we do splash the cash. And it might be a bit too late by the summer. Anyway life goes on.
lurky olivia@36: actually, I don’t think Yennaris was that good against Leeds. He completely lost his man for their great chance when the Leeds player headed straight at Szczesny.
DB10@77: De Gea has been in and out of the team all season, and did not play when they lost to Newcastle so your logic doesn’t really hold water there.
Norfolk@83: I have also been thinking about trying a 4-4-2. We would perhaps be more open in the middle of the park but then again maybe some added protection out wide and having two more centrally located attackers would outweigh that? There are fashions and trends in tactics as much as anything else (if I had a pound for every self-appointed expert that has claimed the death of 4-4-2 over the past twenty-odd years I’d be a very rich man today) and maybe going 4-4-2 would even surprise our opponents a bit. Clearly, Swansea targeted our stand-in full-backs to good effect but with, for example, Theo and Benayoun as full-on proper midfield wingers to provide a bit of cover then maybe that would have been less successful.
But it is of course all guesswork. Let’s keep our fingers crossed that we get a few players back from injury very soon because we really are stretched past the limit right now.
An enjoyable exchange between Holic and Geoff earlier, nicely consolidated by Steve T @ 63.
Like all gooners, there’s a lot I could say, but the biggest obstacle that i’m having trouble coming to terms with, is that tactically, our defence yesterday was simply awful.
I know it’s not the first choice back 4 giving the injuries etc etc
But who takes responsibility for this dissaray?
It’s like they’ve never played together before.
I’m leaning more towards Geoff’s stance as the last few seasons have gone by.
That stance might not be so hard to overcome if we had a bit more honesty from the board.
It’s the 5th full season of 60k attendances, so there caan’t be any arguments about money now, you would think?
So why can we not attract the required quality?
One last point. Much is made of RVP’s end of contract looming. Isn’t AW’s the same length to go?
I agree about Henry, he isn’t the permanent solution, only the temporary treatment. Can’t expect him to score every game.
That was for Norfolk @ 83 btw, & I’d happily entertain a switch back to 4-4-2 until our full backs return, hopefully add more strength to our spine and it would accomodate Henry better up front potentially with Henry, or maybe even give Park a chance to appear off the bench.
Why did we sing Park? This guy as much as I thought he would be used at some point it seems we are only paying his wages for now.
The other one to me is Diaby as good as he is this is another player who just seems to collecting his wages every week!
That’s two players who we pay wages and don’t do any good to the team at all, where is the logic in that?
Steve T
Nigeria.??
I thought we were going to Kazakstahn.!!
As a footnote,and something AW may want to think about,In Sweden last week a Father was so angry at his 10 yr old Son’s poor performance in some sporting event or other,that he made the poor kid walk the 75 kilometres to their home in his sports uniform of shorts,shirt and trainers.!!
The temp was -8C.!!
Cheeers
The Sweeper.
PS, I have absolutely no comment to make on yesterday’s Game.
Morning all,
Very interesting to see the above ‘split’ opinions on where we are right now. Some of us are focusing on the game, I prefer to look at the medium to long term picture. A couple of seasons ago we were
Steve T@63: Yours is a brilliant post especially when quoting his programme notes from April ’10. I don’t recall specific quotes or promises, I just know that this feeling of not improving on the previous season has been with me for at least 3 years now.
I was about to deconstruct GT’s post @ 67 when I read your measured response and you did it perfectly.
Dy@75: Decent analogy with a Formula 1 car, and an end of season collapse wouldn’t be a surprise given previous campaigns (although to be fair to Wenger when our full backs, TV5 and LJW return I do fancy us to finish stronger than last season).
DB10@77: ‘He has been carrying non performers far too long’. THAT is a criticism that holds water for me. That is because it has nothing to do with spending more money or not being allowed to and everything to do with poor management. Sorry if that sounds harsh but case in point Theo, what more must AOC do to be given a game or two in his position? What is the worst and best that could do? It may force Theo to raise his game (no sniggering at the back of the class please) and it just may give us an end product that is missing currently from his game.
Wind@80: Improbable AND impossible I’m afraid.
Mark the Spark@86: Exactly. Just WHO is taking responsibility? YOu make great points, Does our manager take responsibility for 7 defeats from 21 games or is it down to ‘special circumstances’?
We ALL love this club, some of us have had the good fortune to be regulars for decades, (my first game was in 1971) others are more recent additions and it’s quite amazing how polarised our views can be.
I want to add that I’m not looking to convert anyone to how I view the situation and I would take no pleasure in saying ‘I told you so’ if the next few seasons continue the under performance we have seen oner the last few. I’m simply telling fellow gooners how I feel and I’m enjoying reading all your views.
I have said before nothing would give me more pleasure than to see us get our players back, go on an unbeaten run, finish above Sp*rs and have my words forcefully rammed back down my throat. In fact I will be screaming the boys on next week hoping they do just.
Wenger always asks to be judged at the seasons end. I’m frustrated at our continued underperformance given our resources but I’ll take him at his word, if we don’t achieve Champions league football for next year someone has t take responsibility and I think the decision will be beyond discussion at that point.
Sorry for the long post guys, now back to work!
Geoff, if only more could argue your viewpoint as reasonably. If we have some common ground it would be that we are carrying some deadwood without a doubt.
I really do believe the object of your ire feels something similar!
Geoff: “and itβs quite amazing how polarised our views can be.”
I don’t think opinions are that polarized, to be honest. We’ve touched on this subject before, but what it all boils down to is these basic points:
1. We haven’t done well enough so far
2. We need to improve parts of the squad
I don’t think anyone thinks we’ve been good enough or that no improvement can be done to the squad. Where we differ the most is perhaps in how much we need to do or who we think is to blame. For my part, I am entirely with the ‘Holic in being persuaded that if Arsene had had complete control, then things would have been handled very differently. I am, for example, 100% convinced that buying Park was not Arsene’s decision, he was bought by the board to sell shirts in South Korea.
Thank you ‘holic and welcome to a gloomier than usual Monday.
The common ground I think for all us fans is our love for this great institution, some of us are more fortunate than others in our ability to express our feelings and control our emotions but we’re all in this together.
I really had hoped the deadwood would have been shifted by now to free valuable wages and to allow room for others, some success was had in the summer with a mixture of loans and transfers but ruthless pruning is the order of the day as soon as possible (most likely the summer now).
Interestingly as I type this I have received Arsene’s post match ‘Dear Supporter’ email. He closes by saying it’s time for us to wake up and be focused.
That applies to everyone within our great club from players to management to the owner.
the Margins are small, Ramsey hit the post and the ball just trickle along the goal line. The ref was conned for the penalty. They had 4 shots on target they scored 3. on another day it would’ve been different. It also shows lack of depth. our first team is good any others who come in are not doing it. Gervinho, Sagna, Wilshere, Gibbs , Vermaelen are a big miss. If we have these players back in the last 12 games we could make a late push for the top 4 or the FA cup
TaBS, if you are reading, I need a response to my mail. Thanks.
Holic,
I have a mobile number for tabs if you want it, via back-channels?
Good man sno… I mean zico π
An assist for some saddo π
Holic you have mail.
Scores?
Ok, I am now officially the saddo of the day π
Makes the late run…
And keeps on Running! π
Shouts out his congrats to Geoff for the Cent and Zico for the assist as he passes π
Lars is Geoff?
Who knew? π
Great report Holic , always a beacon of sanity in an otherwise toxic atmosphere .
I would have a couple of small quibbles with your analysis which I would otherwise wholeheartedly endorse –
You write that Referees today are the worst you have seen in 50 years . I would have to respectfully disagree with that contention . Having watched the shenanigans of the ridiculous Clive Thomas and the preening Gordon Hill in the seventies , to name but two , and in much more recent times , the arrogance of the self-promoting Poll , I don’t think Referees are any worse than they have been in the past , and are , in actual fact , a hell of a lot better .
The difference with times gone by is that they are now subject to the scrutiny of a multitude of camera angles , and even in the last couple of years an increasingly poisonous media analysis , whilst having to interpret the actions of players , ( in kits of all hue) , who are inordinately skilled in the “art” of deceit .
I am no fan of the man in the black , (abusing the Ref is one of life’s abiding pleasures ) , but given the pace of the game and the practised gamesmanship prevalent , I have to say that I am surprised that they get as much right as they do .
It is of course ridiculous that the most money-laden Sport does not make full use of the technology that other less wealthy Sports have come to take for granted . My own feeling is that the status quo will continue , notwithstanding any amount of bad decisions , and will only change when one of the big power-brokers (Madrid , Barca , Manure) , are adversely affected by a clearly wrong decision in a Champs League Final .
We might , therefore , be waiting a long time .
Secondly , with regard to our increasingly enigmatic winger Theo . I have stuck up for him on many occasions , without too much evidence to support my contention that he will “come good” . I don’t , unlike you , think he was particularly consistent pre-December . Yes , there were good games along the way , (Chelsea , Norwich , Wigan ) , there always are with Theo , but there were as many games where he either flattered to deceive or he went missing entirely .
Theo has been extremely fortunate . He has always enjoyed huge support from the home crowd , notwithstanding that his performances have often belied the belief placed in him .
My own changing attitude towards him is perhaps influenced by tabloid reports of contractual differences , which may have little basis in fact , other than to sell tabloid newspapers . That said , it demonstrates , at least to this observer , that Theo does not , unlike RVP , have the weight of performance behind him to have earned the patience of fans looking on in wonder as multi-million pound deals are haggled over .
It is dangerous to make generalised observations on the last twenty minutes of games when the game is stretched and gaps are more prevalent than they had been hitherto . That said , Theo was , goal aside , wholly ineffective yesterday . AOC showed more hunger , desire , and yes , skill in 15 mins than Theo had done in 90 .
Sign what’s on offer Theo , and buckle down and earn the right to those millions , or risk the latent displeasure of supporters exploding into a more voluble and poisonous backdrop to your efforts .
As for yesterday’s game , I too would join in the chorus of acclaim for Swansea’s performance . They won a game fairly and squarely without resort to the roughhouse tactics that we have become accustomed to seeing so often from others .
There were few positives . I too thought Kos was superb , and wouldn’t be as ready to blame him for the third goal as others . The bizarre lop-sided set-up that we adopted from the kick off gave Swansea the initial space to exploit , whilst Schez’s wholly irrational charge from his line turned a half-chance into an unmissable one .
Miquel did as well as could be expected , given his unfamiliarity with the role , his youth , and the total lack of protection afforded by the serially lazy Arshavin . Surely time is up for the personable but work-shy Russian ?
Ramsey worked hard in a midfield badly missing the calm presence and sure distribution of Arteta . Djourou had one of his less error-strewn games . Both Rosicky and AOC made an impact from the bench , and that’s just about it .
Negatives ? The second half at Fulham and yesterday’s game will not go down as Schez’s finest couple of hours in the shirt . Time to forget twitter and cult-hero status , and get back to basics .
Mertesacker was ponderous , Song ineffective and Benayoun poor . Arshavin and Walcott were both passengers in the extreme , whilst the Captain struggled to impose himself in the second half and was guilty , perhaps understandably so , of trying to do it all by himself on more than one occasion .
So where does that all leave us ? I read with interest the debate above , both sides of which , were articulate and well presented .
That said , am I the only one who finds these endlessly regurgitated “State of the Club” debates depressing ? It seems that we now go on a week by week basis , where the perception of the Club is wholly dependent on whether an often very tight game is either won or lost .
Long -time readers of ‘Holic’s blog will know that I come down firmly on the ‘Holic side of the Geoff/Holic debate above . It would therefore be superflous to repeat as a mantra , thoughts and views that I have already posted .
No-one doubts that for whatever reason , last summer was an almighty mess . For that mess AW must take his share of responsibility . I would , however , proffer that no-one outside of the inner sanctum of the Club truly knows what went on . To ask for the removal of a man who has guided us through a period where the financial constraints were such that had a lesser man been in charge , we might have been debating far more doomsday-laden scenarios than whether we might yet squeeze into the top four (again!) , appears to me to be misguided in the extreme . There is no-one managing in this country who I would rather have in charge of my Club . Nothing that happened yesterday changes that view .
Holic @38 – Brilliant post .
SteveT @63 – I have taken issue before with the “best that we can be” line . To do so again would appear confrontational . It is not meant to be . I enjoy hugely your post-match reports , so hope this comment is taken in the spirit it is intended .
I just find the “best that we can be” line nebulous . What does it mean ? Are Liverpool the best that they can be ? Tottenham ? Villa ? Leeds ? Sheffield Wednesday ? Surely the only 3 Clubs that are the best that they can be are the two Clubs who are wholly subsidised by extraneous means and are therefore greater than their standing in the game would suggest , and Manchester Utd , who have utilised both the satanic genius of Ferguson and huge debt to maximise their commercial potential and stay in touch with the financial dopers .
You cite Arsene’s lines of seasons past . To my mind , at least to the summer of 2010 , there was no money available , and he was merely reciting , wrongfully in my view , a party line . As stated above , no-one doubts the mess that was last summer , nor that more money is now available , but to spend that money of itself is not the answer . Would spending the 65m on Carroll Henderson and Downing be “the best that we can be ” ?
Last summer was clearly a mess , and gives you every right to pose the questions that you have asked . I don’t think , however , that the answers to those questions are as simplistic as is often postulated by some . If they were , they would have been addressed .
Roast Swan ? Bitter taste and repeating on me in a most unpleasant way .
Up The Arsenal .
Holic @96 , Thank you so much . Have replied , and count me in ! π
Lars, Well done. Just hope you’ve got your wallet as it seems the lads are not quite done drowning their sorrows. Remember, alcohol is a depressant, something most of you don’t need right about now. I suggest you have a romantic evening with your sweetie or flirt with someone you don’t even know. Anything to put you in a better frame of mind. My dream is to see RVP on the UEFA CL Banner (replacing Rooney). What is your dream?
Bloody hell tabs!
Let me get a glass….
OK, there’s still lots of points to be played for and 2 cups to be won.
Happy Train carries on regardless.
In a lurch out of character, contents of the CMC are today free of charge, so help yourself to some medication. Remember, what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger.
yours
Feelgood Freedom Fighters.
Afternoon All
Like Clive and based on some really fine posting above, I think the Swansea autopsy has now been done to death (sic).
The best team on the day won a great game of football (hard to argue, surely?). We need to regain some form (obvious and so easy to type). We need to carefully strengthen and prune our squad (ditto). We need to get behind the team. These are only my opinions of course.
Anyway, for general amusement and for any on-looking LWCs gloating at our current misfortunes, how about this link?
http://haveyoueverseentottenhamwintheleague.com/
Of course, ‘Holic & ATG got there first but a good way to enjoy 10 seconds at the expenses of our delightful neighbours.
TM Snowy @ #43 – TTF were magnificent as usual. Did you see the Henry incident post game?
Geoff, Steve T – Any chance that you guys will be at The Tollie pre- or post-game on Sunday? I think there’ll be a resonable crowd gathered for what will be a massive game for us on Sunday.
‘Holic – Loved the Dyer comment, it always pays to read first, react second. Someone texted me last night suggesting a straight swap with Theo. Fair point, I thought…
UTA!
Count me in Dr Z . Just off to fetch my “size is everything” Pipe ! π
Apologies Mr C . My tuppence ha’penny worth turned into a good few quid . π
TS – heh , great link π
Dear Feelgood
Are you feeling OK today old bean?
You might not be in quite such a benevolent move when I present you with the HT Mk II repair bills accumulated over the past couple of weeks. The little shunt at Putney was one thing but The Liberty some people took yesterday is quite another.
Yours, Edwin
Remember the mantra, Edwin
“Fuck off you fair-weathered, faint hearted fandangos, we don’t need ya…..”
As for those twits on twitter abusing Ramsay, well, I’m surprised they can operate their little devices, given the webbing between their fingers……
Dr.F
Quite. ‘Am working on equipping Carlos K & Team with a retro-fitted webbing scanner. Snaps onto the PARS, and detects the inbred gene from 100 yards. Early tests on the resident pet are proving promising if painful. We may need further ‘volunteers’ to perfect. A few candidates spring to mind…
Edwin
Prof TES ,
May I commend you on the new webbing scanner . Particularly useful whilst I am on “Enfield patrol ” !
Nice to see the Executive taking first dibs on the Cabinet π
tabs @ #105 – That must have been a weight off π
Don’t agree with everything but very well put and good to read.
Technology is surely the only way to sort out the refereeing issues related to players cheating and diving?
It amazes me how Dowd manages to finish a game without a coronary each week π
It was ever thus Dr Z π
Dr. Z – FFF, off i go with them!
Up The Arsenal (apparently a club always in crisis whenever A reeesult don’t go our way)!
Cheers TS
tabs – Used Edwin’s laptop by mistake π³
Afternoon chaps. Just thought I’d let you know that there are LWC’s on F365’s afternoon mailbox talking a LOT of sense about keeping this whole thing in perspective.
…And when THAT happens, haters, you know you’ve officially lost it.
Best quote of the lot?
“I really like Arsenal, but you, do you really like Arsenal? Or just Arsenal with trophies?”
Nuff said that man.
tabs@105: great work, and I think I agreed with everything, to be honest.
Tabs
Superb post perhaps you should do a guest one for Holic if you ask him nicely π
And that pipe sounds rather tempting since my alcohol detox is still on it’s course.
TS
Good work from Clockenders I see… worth a look definitely!
A quickieish re Theo then i’ll exeunt left to raucous boos. He’s by no means my favourite player and i appreciate that his game is somewhat one-dimensional – relying hugely as it does on his blistering pace.
I thought he stank the place out in the first-half. But if my failing memory serves me, in the second-half he scored a great goal; some decentish wing-play helped get AA in on the edge of their box for a shot he should have done better with and he pinged a perfect cross to Rambo – but unfortunately the resulting header – a fine one – flew straight at their keeper. There might have other half-decent bits and bobs he did too in that second-half, but a goal and the carving out of a couple of good chances from a winger/outside-forward playing away from home against a team that dominated us at times is not too bad a return. Don’t think any of their goals came from down his side either.
Yes, at times, his crossing was still frustrating – as it too often is. Sure he was run-off the ball by an excellent looking left-back – who matched him for pace. And certainly The Ox looks like he has the potential to develop in to a better all-round player, i presume that’s why AW (for it was him i think) paid even more money for The Ox than he did for Theo at a similar age.
IF Theo is asking the earth – and none of us know – then of course he shouldn’t be given it, because he doesn’t deserve it – neither does he deserve to become our new whipping boy – imho – as don’t think it will do him, or us, any favours in the end.
Have left the engine running – so i’m orf!
Bring back Geordie Armstrong!
Up The Arse!
Cheers Lars @124 .
I , like you , do not believe that there is a huge polarisation of views amongst the fan-base , certainly amongst the regulars here , and discounting the serially stupid over at Le Grove and other outlets that give the perenially bilious an outlet to puke their poison .
There will of course , however , always be differences of perception , and with the written word lacking the natural ebb and flow of a verbal conversation , those differences can harden into entrenched and apparently “polarised” views .
In that respect Geoff is quite correct when he says that those differences of view would be better debated over a few beers .
That is not , in any way , meant to devalue the fantastic forum and virtual beers that Holic provides , it is fantastic , but merely to point out the limitations of the medium itself , in allowing differing perceptions to find common ground .
Arthur , thanks , and pull up a chair and take a tug . Plenty enough here for all . π
AL – as always , very sound sense as regards Theo . Felt guilty slating him , but feel its time for him to step up and become more than an in and out player . I acknowledge his moments were greater than I originally gave him credit for , but outside of those moments , his ability to do the simple things well , retain possession and influence the game were negligible . I would hate to see him become a whipping boy , as I would any player , but I think Theo stands at a tipping point . I hope he bears that in mind together with the support he has been afforded over the last 6 seasons , when he comes to consider his contract renewal .
Beer you say?
I don’t want to get into a debate about it – just count me in. π
As for Theo, nothing will focus his mind more than being benched for young Chamberlain. Don’t think it will happen this weekend though.
tabs @ #128 – Absolutley agree with every single word of that post. Now, where are those golden, executive pipes…. π
Carlos K @ #116 – Edwin sends his thanks. Be careful in ‘Spud Town’, some of those LWCs are getting very cocky these days. Bragging rights may take a while to restore….
AL @ #127 – No boos here, only booze. Here’s a thought, how about splicing Arshavin with Geordie? Would that create the perfect player? BTW, are you around on Sunday? Would be good to catch-up, pint in hand.
ATG – Indeed and cheers. I know you put a lot of effort into helping restore the clock last year and in time for the LWC’s 50th anniversary of failure. Please Dennis, it’ll still be running next year π
Camberwell @ #123 – LWCs talking a LOT of sense? It truly is the end of the world as we know it. I’m off to the fall-out shelter with Edwin to share substances with Feelgood & Wolfie and to listen to Clive recant prose about plastic baby Jesus dolls.
zico @ #130
Better ‘benched’ than ‘Denched’.
Ask Van Der Faart π
TS @ 132, heh! π
Our Manny’s quality he is, heard he gave the LWC fans the double bird when he had finished giving his shirt to the away Wolves fans.
What a legend!
Top Post @ 105 tabs my main man ‘thumbs up’
And thanks for the link @ 110 TS, cheered me up proper π
Wind @ #133
You’re welcome.
As someone pointed out to me, his tweet about “It’s so quiet @ The Lane” was just the best….
To Geoff & Steve T: I never ever said that I disagreed with both of your opinions. I am just not at the same level of despair as you guys or the others – yet!!
I am one of those old fashioned Gooners who will go on looking for silver linings way after the sun has set. Maybe it was when I started to support the Arsenal. We were so shit then. I remember being stuffed at Highbury 5-0 to some team like Norwich (may be wrong about the team) but with me and just 13,000 other souls in the entire stadium freezing my bollox off. I never missed a game that season – home or away! So don’t look for anything approaching gloom from me because I try to weigh the pros vs the cons and I have managed to delude myself into being optimistic about the future and our chances of finishing in the top four again this year.
Wind@133: hear, hear. Top post, Tabs, @105.
I just hope we haven’t started our recently customary end of season fade early.
fair point/s tabs but it works both ways – players can be boohed out of a club and Theo’s getting plenty of stick just now – some of it possibly deserved – but it’s certainly intensified since the papers told us he’s holding our club to ransom.
And now in this internet age the keyboard knowalls (who often don’t get anywhere a live game/the club) can, with a little help from the bumhole end of the meedja – help build up a negative head of steam which may become part of what pushes a player/manager out of a club. Indeed judging by what went on this summer they can help convince many of us a whole club should feel shit about itself – blah, blah, blah. Like you said earlier tabs – the analysing of every aspect of the club after a crap result gets depressing/dull – especially as it’s generally so negative
On a more serious note TS booze not boohs!!! Haven’t got a tkt for sunday but starting to think i ought to make the pilgramage to the old/new place and get amongst it with a bunch of top-gunners and lend my little bit of support to the cause. So see you there fella!
Up The Arse!
Also TS love the Geordie/Arshavin combo – but crucially which ones hair-do?
Which reminds me in my eulogy to Big Pat “on the back” Jennings the other day i meant to mention that his distinctive “do” (reckon his mrs. must have done it for ‘im) still hasn’t changed after all these years. R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
Up The Arse!
AL,
I hear what you are saying regarding Theo, but the frustration surrounding Theo is twofold, as I see it:
(a) The player is looking for a substantial pay rise (or at least is perceived to be) which he has not earned and we have already been hamstrung by overpaying players in the past who have arguably not earned it (Bendtner etc)
(b) The perception of many fans, myself included, is that there is a young lad on the bench who deserves a chance based on Theo’s recent form.
OK Dr Z. let’s dance round in dem circles then.
He – Theo – may be asking for more money, in fact eff it he (well his agent) almost certainly is – that’s what generally (sorry, almost always) happens when a player’s contract is being renegotiated ( though i would be happy to hear of any examples of a player, or his representitives, bursting into the manager’s office and demanding to be paid less). It’s cultural – that’s what happens in football – we all know it. It’s then up to the club to decide if they think the player is worth what he’s asking for. If they don’t think he’s worth it they negotiate further or sell the player. Sorry, but I’m amazed that some gonahs are getting so worked up about this re Theo when we know so few of the actual facts (as you say it’s a perception – that is at least partly media generated) and when, as i’ve already said, this is what happens in the world of football.
The form thing is a separate issue. The Ox is undoubtedly pushing hard for a place in the side, he’s quality and that’s what he’s there for, but even on Theo’s current iffy form i wonder whether AA has more cause for concern right now. Didn’t The Ox come on, on his side on Saturday – whereas AW left the goal-scoring speedster that is Walcott on the pitch.
The “perception” thing says it all for me re Theo. Some of the criticism aimed his way may be deserved – but some of it seems – to me anyway – to be a convenient place to dump some frustration we all feel when things aren’t going the way of our beloved club.
Anyway i’m tired of appearing to defend him. I don’t mean to – believe it or not – i just don’t feel it’s right to slate him for stuff that’s not necessarily his fault.
Up The Arse!
Sunday even – though in my ailing mind football’s always played on a Saturday – even on a Monday. But possibly not on Wednesday or Tuesday
UredS!
AL,
Arshavin is a cause for concern, no doubt. I don’t know if there is an answer for what has happened to him and he can be replaced by the Ox as easily as TW.
As for the money thing – I just think we need to be more discerning when it comes to paying players based on potential – I would prefer if we are going to spend money that we spend it on players who are the finished article and find a way of incentivising these young turks to realise their potential before we start paying them silly money.
For what its worth, I am far from a Theo hater. But at this point in time I think we need to give the Ox Lad a run. He deserves a chance. If it is too soon, and he doesn’t quite deliver, he won’t get any grief from me. (And the lads will tell you, I didn’t think he was that great against Leeds when he last started, but he certainly did not hide, which I think Walcott does quite regularly).
How do you like them apples? π
AA or The Theo for The Ox, Z?
Both? π
You’re a tactical radical dear boy 4-3-2 they won’t know what’s hit ’em – bring it/him on!!!
Actually I was hoping I could get a run in Arshavin’s place.
Comprehensive thumping of the opposition last night and a clean sheet to boot. π
AL – At the risk of joining an ever-decreasing circle , another two-pennyworth re Theo .
No-one , at least of sound mind , advocates any sustained barracking of Theo or indeed any player . I would no more actively barrack any Arsenal player than eat my own socks .
That said , I think constructive criticism is a far cry from the type of abuse that you describe , and which will be present in any form of social media as long as there are f*ckwits about .
I agree to an extent that much of the disquiet with Theo is based on meaningless press speculation , a fact I acknowledged in my earlier post .
That should not , however , detract from a growing perception that Theo is a fellow , beginning to believe his own hype . Yes there have been good games , indeed some were excellent , but there have also been incidents which have worried me .
The mini-strop at Maine Road upon being substituted , (after having played a stinker) , and the self indulgent diatribe aimed at young Jenks in the OT debacle , when it was Theo , and not Jenks , who was at fault , spring to mind .
Whilst not condoning in any way personal abuse aimed at one of our own players , the failure to avoid the perception that he is holding out on a new contract , ( TV5 did not wait until his last season to sign up ) , within a context of serially patchy form , will undoubtedly contribute to whispers of displeasure becoming a clamour . Should that occur , I will disapprove wholeheartedly but will also consider that Theo only has himself to blame .
He simply has not yet achieved the status of someone like RVP , who can play that game and still retain the unanimous support of the fans .
Anyway , I look forward to seeing you on saturday , buying you a Guinness and giving you 10 seconds to agree with me ! π
Wind , Ned and TS – Cheers for the kind words .
Dr Z @130 heh π , and have to agree with your analysis @139
saturday = sunday π³
The Ox in the box Ox, The box to box Ox, The Ox on both wings with the rolled down sox Ox
Ah that word perception again tabs – comes a little too close to erm, well perception – for me. But if that’s how you or anybody else chooses to perceive something – then granted it’s difficult to debate re said perception, all i , or anybody else, can do is suggest things may be perceived differently. In fact i, or someone else, may perceive it to be the exact opposite of how the first person possibly perceives said thingy – thus rendering debate futile nee pointless nee needless. So why not agree to agree to buy one another a pint, pre making points and do what that fine fellow Geoff said and continue said discussion live – as i for one am getting bored at the sound of my own typing/tapping. Will see you at The Tollie on Sunday – hopefully – old son. Dr. Z am assuming not even you can wangle work to send you down on a Sunday – not even on overtime gentlemen please?
Up The Arse!
Squillaci potentially on the verge on signing for Monaco?
Holding my breath.
Oops, pardon tabs – saw the word “perception” a few times and didn’t read to end of post. Poor show of me but am flagging. When i see you sunday i will of course agree with you – possibly within 10 seconds – as who could fail to on casting one’s minces cross that charming visage of thine and hearing the words “bitter AL?” spill from that sweet spoken north and south that sitteth ‘tween thy hooter and chin. And i’ll of course reply –
“yes, yes a thousand times yes!”
Heh π π
Source Wind ?
And tabs i know you wouldn’t barrack one of our own – but i’m sorry to say there’s plenty that would/do. In fact there’s plenty that seem to positively embrace the opportunity to do just that – i’ve had the misfortune to be stuck next to them at the ems. Not so sure about the not eating one’s own sox – there are some circs under which i can see that that would be acceptable
Up The Arse!
Source.
http://www.footballtransfertavern.com/2012/01/premiership/french-media-announce-centre-back-move-to-ligue-1?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TransferTavern+%28The+Transfer+Tavern+Home+Page%29
π , though I’m struggling to think of any circs . Not sure of the nutritional value either !
Cheers lurky .
Not for the first time – you could well be right. Though i would eat mine – fuk it – i would eat yours before i booed one of ours. Adieu!
And Up The Arsenal!
AL@152: π
If Squillaci is indeed on his way out, that would be good for all involved, I think. And we do need to move someone along to make room for someone new who isn’t home-grown or under-21.
ManCity just beat Wigan 1-0, by the way. Nasri subbed off as usual.
AL @ 150
Unfortunately not. They’re gullible but not THAT gullible.
Hopefully see you for Blackburn, when I will be on the premises.
An update on the All in Brawl at the ‘Peace In Our Time’ Retirement Village last week,
Professor Storey,BHL,DSK,NUX,was quoted as saying that,
” Anyone thinking of moving in to the Village,can rest assured that they will be perfectly safe,what happened last week was completely out of character for the Residents.
Indeed i have spoken to several of them,and the problem may have been exacerbated by the strange smelling smoke coming from the gardening sheds that very same day.
Many of the residents said they felt quite peculiar after taking a stroll through the Grounds that morning,and say they cannot remember much of what happened afterwards.
Indeed many of them have no memory of the afternoons events.
Our Head Gardener Wolfgang Smallballs has denied any knowledge of where the toxic smoke was emanating from,even though he has formal charge of the Gardening Sheds,he asserted that he was very busy all day,pruning,mulching and watering his ‘Plants’in the special purpose Greenhouses that he has had built adjacent to the Woods at the back of the Complex.
Our Resident Doctor, Mr Feelgood,has beeen examining several of the paricipants in the Brawl,but his findings are unavailable at the present time,as Dr Feelgood is currently In Therapy.
But rest assured his findings will be made available soonest.”
Professor Storey has invited me back for a further interview next week to update our readers on any further developments.
Till then,
This is your intrepid News Reporter signing off.
$ami “the sub” – ahha!
Lars think you may have mistaken me posting @152 for something else. I would go round to SQUEALachi’s house and pack his suit-case, then take the weight off his ball-bag all the way to Monaco for him. Still wouldn’t boo him if he were in the red and white of Arsenal though. i would look the other way and pray a bit mind.
Zico @161 am ticketed up all ready for Blackburn – where i believe this time the pints are on me!!!
π π Excellent , Mr Reporter .
Zico @ 146 only just spotted that posting. Sounds like some sort of filthy football dream to me – i hope for your sake Roxette wasn’t lying next to you listening in.
Oops – pardon Lars @ 160 – see what you did there – my mistake – Larsene knows!
I really will retire now
Up The Arse all!
To share a typical comment from a typical arsenal supporter at a typical arsenal blog:)
i am a real arsenal fan,pls mr.coach try and bring new player in dis jan transfer,bcos we dont Want Rvp to leave dis club at d end of his cotract.up gunners for life.
In translation …
BUY BUY BUY Pliz Wenga, BUY BUY, WENGAAAAAAA, buy buy, buy, RVP, buy, new plyr, WENGAAAAAAAA, buy buy buy
Evening ‘holic, ‘holics and gooners,
Tabs, you write so beautifully I found myself rueing the oncoming end of your post. Glad you like the idea of a round table ‘beer’ meeting…can you promise not to stand on it though?
I think we’d have a lively debate.
AL, I see you are up for it too, that’s good (the drink, not the table dancing)
GoonerTerry, I love your turn of phrase ‘silver linings after the sun has set’….poetic and visual, I can see you on the beach in jamaica, detached, melancholy as you search for moments of hope from an otherwise lamentable performance.
Having been at Highbury freezing my nuts off watching us struggle to string three passes together in front of 17’000 people I guess makes us brothers in arms to some degree?
Solidarity and all that….
Zico, I’m Lars? Good spot. A case of TV5 taking Kos’s medicine? Don’t know what you are on Wind but I’d like some, help me forget a little…..
Evening Ts, Arthur, Snowy (respect for the post after your travails) and anyone else I have neglected to mention.
AL @ 164 – Just in case, I’ll stand to the side π
And @ 166 – No Sunday night is a Roxette-Free zone. Only lads allowed and no pirates. π
To the Sweeping Reporter @ 162, Feelgood in therapy again? Poor chap, if only he’d listened to the voices……
And of course top three of the transfer news of the last 5 minutes
3. Christopher Samba β The answer to Arsenalβs prayers?
2. Arsenal Consider Ambitious Move to Land Real Madrid Playmaker Kaka
1. Arsenal interested in Van Persie’s son *
*my favourite
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2087559/Arsenals-Jack-Wilshere-return-February-4-EXCLUSIVE.html
Nice one Snir, particularly this one:
Thankfully, the Frenchmanβs injury list looks set to shorten this week with key defenders Thomas Vermaelen and Bacary Sagna primed to return to action against Manchester United on Sunday.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2087580/Rio-Ferdinand-injury-doubt-Arsenal-game.html
Ferdinand out? Now that would be a blow.
For us.
Dr Z – heh π
Glad to see you back Snir . With the weekend’s disappointments , was beginning to worry that you had gone in for a bit of sustained self-harming !
Cheers for your very kind words Geoff . Will look forward to those Beers and that debate , though can’t promise not to jump on the table . Classic distraction technique if the debate is not being won ! π
Excellent comments from everyone on current situation re My Arse,
sorry The Arse.!!.
Not all singing from the same hymn sheet,but generally despite the diversified opinions on what needs to be done to ‘Right The Ship ‘,
It’s obvious to me that everyone loves the Club and all it stands for.
Cheers
The Sweeper.
Thanks for the cover and save Lurky @ 156 π
Tabs – Thanks for the concern but I have decided not to post after losses.
I get wound up quite easily and there really is no point.
I mean, my opinion has probably been written by someone else already and just thinking about the game drives me mad.
I just take some comfort in different sports and try to avoid the Arsenal blogosphere/twittersphere.
Mr Reporter @ 162, very nice π
Haha Geoff. @ 169, I’m on ‘Youth’, not so easy to obtain I’m afraid π
Fair enough Snir .
Sagna doubtful for Sunday.
The angst of this week is knowing that a home win over Man U will put the world to rights, but a defeat will plunge us into a vitriolic black hole of bleakness. Ho hum…
Can’t get no sleep
Hey Snir tell ‘im he can join me down the tollie and watch the game in there if he can’t make the pitch. I’ll be happy to stand/spill ‘im a couple – Dr. Z can vouch for me
So, enough time has passed to be fairly sure how I feel after yesterday’s defeat.
There is no point in repeating what has already been said by so many above. other than to referance some excellent contributions by Geoff, Steve T, the Boss himself, and Tabs – especially @105, wow – and I can’t disagree with a word you have written anywhere.
My instinct is with ‘Holic @40, which is that Arsene Wenger has been publicly defending the club’s position for a long time, whilst it has been somewhat different to his own.
For me, that is instinct and an attempt to read between his publicly released lines.
For ‘Holic it is clearly a bit more than that.
Without churning out “more AKB sycophancy”, I do have a lot of genuine sympathy for the man who puts his life and soul into the Arsenal Football Club, and must hurt when he sees performances dished up by the likes of Arshavin, Chamakh and some who have already been moved on, and then thinks back to the Invincibles of 2004.
So rather than join an excellent debate too late, I will pass on the words of an interview I chanced on today on the normally hateful Talksport.
The words of a true Arsenal great, and one who, in his own words, now attends every Arsenal home game as a supporter.
That man is Frank McLintock, who had this to say –
“I think the Arsenal fans are confused. Is there money to spend or not? The club never come out, without naming names and giving the game away, and say ‘yes we are trying to sign a centre forward, or a centre half, or a midfield player’. For fans to know that, it would at least give them a real lift, and an assurance that the club is trying to address weaknesses.
When we moved to The Emirates, the idea was that we would be challenging Barcelona and Real Madrid for the Champions League, not struggling to finish fourth in the Premier League.
When a player we need is available we should at least be there trying to sign them, but for some reason we don’t seem to be.
That’s why I feel the Arsenal fans are confused”.
I do not claim that to be a direct transcript of his interview, but it is a very fair representation of what he said.
I don’t want, or feel any need, to add to it.
Hey zico – @139, agreed,
The Ox looked far more treatening in his 15 minutes than Theo or Arshavin had done all night.
Now some smart arse is going to point out they had a goal and an assist between them.
Don’t care.
GoonerTerry, Geoff –
I was antoher one among the 16,000+ (i believe) freezing my nuts off vs Norwich.
Friday night before Christmas – can’t remember the year – as usual – can’t forget the game – unfortunately π
Trev, It was I who compared the OX to Pele way back…no arguments from me. I also have a gut feeling that Wenger plans to say adieu to AA with the way he has been talking him up in the press recently.
Trev@185: I think the club is damned if they do and dammed if they don’t. You can’t negotiate in public. Agents would be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of bidding wars on every potential move. Nor does the club want to tip their hand to rivals, who could come in with spoiler bids. And, on the basis of the past 24 hours, fans would get apoplectic every time a target slipped away, as many inevitably will. I suspect that the club is far more active in the transfer market than we ever get to see, even if the results aren’t immediately apparent in the first team (see Joey Cambell’s goal for L’Orient at the weekend, btw?). Against that, it would be nice, as fans, to know for sure that real efforts are being made to strengthen the squad.
ABB@188: AA was a Jan window signing, let us not forget. A great first half season, but thereafter…
If AA does go in Jan, I wouldn’t mind replacing him with a left back and play Santos when he returns farther forward (or at least until our four CBs all get crocked, the full backs are playing as emergency centre halves and Wenger is being crucified for his short-sighted sale of Squallici)…
NBN, Oh, Ned how true. Sooo much talent but he is out of sorts. Poor guy. You know, as long as we get fourth place in the PL, that will do it for me. The CL is my dream. We can beat any team out there when we have everybody back. Barca is not invinceable and they look a little too robotic, as of late. One great striker for us and that should do it.
Call me an incurable romantic, ABB, but I still have this sneaking feeling well have a deep run in the CL this year. We were only a TGSTEL toe poke from putting Barca out last season.
Ned, Don’t you know it!!! Cheers!
While I think Barca will make it to the quarters, there are some good sides that have tricky Round of 16 ties. Real Madrid could come a cropper in Moscow and Chelsea in Napoli. Bayern must be jittery about Basel, after its giantkilimg feats. One of Inter or Marseille has to go out. Could all leave a very open and winnable competition from the quarters on.
Ned, Exactly. If we have Jack back for ACM, well, game on. The big Swede will be our problem. Too bad we don’t have the Pong!!!
Can’t the BFG deal with the Swede?
And Song is the original Pong.
I see Will Hill has us at 20s to win the CL. Must be worth a tenner.
Goal
Wind, you rogue
Spots Ned making a quick break and pases the ball ever so deftly through the defender’s legs…
Sold the keeper a dummy. Get in!
Way to go Ned! Surely a good omen of things to come.
Well, thought the lurkers would breeze in. Thanks for the assist, Impeccable1. Wheels away with ABB to dream of CL success…
Well done NBN! Good poaching!
Damn, missed that sitter.
I got to practice my poaching skills before negotiating my new contract….don’t want people saying CoR has had 6 years to improve and hasn’t π
Come to think of it, I really haven’t done anything since that drink #300 either!
I hope rumours of contract haggling are unfounded because it really would leave a badtaste in the mouth of people who are waiting for him to hit a solid run of consistency. In my opinion he is a little way off but getting there. When Wrighty and Henry were his age they were inconsistent as well…
Let’s hope Squillaci makes it to Monaco as well. Maybe Shaft can arrange his transport?
CoR – Squillaci has to make it to Monaco because we have to release someone to accommodate TH on our 25 list.
It’s most probably gonna be Squillaci and if AW decides to get a forward which I don’t think he will then Almunia will be sold as well.
But, I don’t see Almunia leaving because his contract ends at the end of the season giving him the liberty to do whatever he wants.
Hey Snir, do you reckon we’ll see more of Park from now on? I wonder why the boss doesn’t rate him. He’s been a class act for Korea and there are worse Korean players than him playing in the Prem and doing alright. Maybe Arsene is waiting for to decide on a new goal celebration other than his current wanking himself off one π
“waiting for him” that should be
SG@208: is there any reason that Almunia’s contract couldn’t be cancelled by mutual agreement or bought out so he could, to all intents and purposes, leave on a free during the Jan transfer window?
CoR@206: it is all about the composure in front of goal, or about the composition in the ’90s…
CoR – The Park thing is beyond me. The exaggerated faith in AA also drives me nuts. He’s gotten more opportunities than any other fringe player.
NBN – That would mean Arsenal will have to pay compensation to Almunia and I don’t think Arsenal will pay if they don’t have to.
Don’t have to = not signing anyone else.
But if we do sign someone I reckon we’ll either loan Almunia, sell him or cancel the contract by mutual agreement.
Well that’s strange: I can’t find any where evidence that I was at Highbury being beaten by Norwich (or other) with just me, Geoff, Trev and 13,000 to 16,000 other poor sods freezing our bollox off! I have looked for over an hour but no results…maybe I was dreaming it? Geoff, Trev were we?
Still hurting from Sunday. At 2-2, their goal was a real kick in the nuts
But hey ho! The drinks have cheered me up π
I am desperately looking forward to Jack and Sagna coming back
We have to take it one game at a time, and most importantly win our home games.
@Snir G sir,
AA23 or Park, that’s the real riddle for Arsenal fans. What is it that Arsene sees in AA today or what Arsene doesn’t see in Park ? AA isn’t a left winger until Arsene insists he is. Well then I’d say put Park in left wing position and try him out. Does it hurt if he fails to impress ? I do like AA when he’s fit and all. But he knows his time has gone, that’s why we don’t hear any loud complaint from him.
Isn’t it Vito Mannone who has already made way for TH12?
Vito Mannone was HG.
We still need to release a player who isn’t HG.
He made way for TH for the CL squad. They have different parameters.
@212: Thanks for the advice NDN. Now to get advice on my egg poaching skills…
@214: Hey GT, I don’t know about defeat to Norwich but according to wikipedia: Record defeat at Highbury β 0β5, twice (v. Huddersfield Town, First Division, 14 February 1925 and v. Chelsea, League Cup, 11 November 1998) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arsenal_F.C._records_and_statistics#Defeats
Also found this head to head between Arsenal and Norwich. If it’s not the 4-2 loss (1992) it might be a 2-1 loss (1987), both at Highbury, you’re remembering…
http://arsenal-mania.com/clubs/10026/Norwich-City/history.html
Morning All
Quick note to thank Trev for his excellent post @ #185 re: the comments from the legend that is Frank McClintock. I would also really appreciate ‘a little bit more the openess’ that he was describing.
I respect the club’s stance on many issues but a little more disclosure on the really important issues e.g. what the f*ck we are doing or even thinking of doing to strengthen our squad and give us the best possible chance of launching a sustained title challenge would not only be well received but also, I think, help to restore the bond between supporter and club that has of often been talked about in our bar.
I know AW has explained quite clearly what he is trying to sign in terms of our LB situation but I find it hard to believe that having overseen all of our performances (or lack of) since the great win at Villa that he is not adjusting his views on what we need to do now.
Rant over, Storey out.
PS: Snir @ #208 – Agree re: Almunia.
PPS: AL @ #152 – Bard-tastic!
PPPS: Clive @ #162 – Hack-tastic! Your meds are atop the CMC, next to mine π
*openness* tsk
Well in NBN, and excellent dummy Impeccable 1, saw myself in that. But why am I a rogue NBN, the only kind I ever recall myself being is a lovable one… π
I like dy’s idea @ 216, I was at the 4th Round Carling Cup Game vs Bolton when Park scored, and I still think he can do the job, he’s scored at least. It would be very interesting to say the least to see him playing on the left wing.
Message for ‘holics seeking tickets for two of ours on Sunday, the eagle has landed. They are sorted.
Thanks all.
Noted ‘Holic. Excellent work. Have communicated with one directly already.
Do you know how to find the Tollie on….. sorry, wrong event π
My beautiful Mum had her 90th birthday last week.
She is with us in Body, but unfortunately the mind and the memories have long since left the building.
She is as frail as a little bird,i can pick her up and cradle her in my arms like a baby.
But she has an indomitable spirit,like many of her generation that lived through the War years.
But sadly for me she cannot hear me tell her anymore how much i love her and what she means to me.
No recognition or comprehension of anything going on around her.
Mum has resisted several calls from ‘ Upstairs ‘ over the past few years,i wonder how many more times ‘ He’ will call before she accepts.
Happy Birthday Mum.
Thinking of her on her birthday, maestro. They built them of much sterner stuff in those days.
Many Thnks Holic
Every other Family Member from her Generation has gone.
She is indeed the Last One Standing.
‘holicdad would have been the same age in April, Clive.
’22 was avery good year.
Best wishes to your family Clive.
I am beginning to come out of self-imposed interweb exile. Is it safe yet?
A drink to all, and an OJ for Clive and Hurricane
Best wishes Clive, from me and all the Steve T clan. Have a great day.
Back later.
Clive, She sounds like one beautiful lady. Surely she feels your love. God bless.
Best Birthday Wishes to your Mum Clive!
Clive – a lovely and moving post . Happy Birthday to your Mum .
Holic @225 – Many thanks again , and I shall see you on Sunday where I shall endeavour to keep you awash in the Black stuff . π
Trev @185 – Thank you for your kind words , and one right back at yer for your own post . If my own meeting with Frank is anything to go by , he is in fact far more critical of the present regime than he allows himself to be in the public domain .
Whilst I have some sympathy for Frank’s plea for greater public communication , I tend to veer towards the view expressed by Ned that that route might engender more booby-traps than would be sensible . It is a fine line between the silence of our Club , and the classless “through a car window” interviews given by ‘Arry .
That said , a middle ground could and should surely be found . Some sort of “after the fact” explanations would not go amiss . For example , why was the summer so tortuous , how many players (without naming names) did we go after , why we were ultimately unsuccessful and what is being done to make sure that the same mistakes will not be made again .
GoonerTerry – That Norwich game has been the subject of comment here before where you , I , Geoff , Trev , Clive and Holic and 13,000 other hardy souls braved the fog and the snow . It took place on December 20th 1979 and finished 1-1 .
It is a sobering thought that we were capable of getting those crowds before either Brady or Stapleton (who both played) had left the Club , and depression really set in !
The reason I think for such a low crowd was of course the sub-zero temperatures ( I didn’t thaw out until the New Year ) , proximity to Christmas , and the fact that , for reasons that now escape me , it was played on a friday night .
I have been racking my brain for heavy home defeats during that period , but am struggling . I can only come up with a 1-4 reverse to Ipswich on Willie Young’s debut three years before , a 5-2 defeat to Spartak Moscow when we clapped the Russians off the pitch , and a 3-0 defeat to Watford , after Don Howe had resigned , but prior to George Graham’s appointment .
Have to say that my abiding memory of those early eighties years was stale 0-0 games against someone like Brighton , where myself and my mates spent more time lusting after the girls dispensing the Arsenal lottery tickets , than we did actually watching the football !
Many Belayed Happy Birthday Wishes to your Mum Mr Sweeper π
Very moving Clive, all the best to your mum.
zico
Hi Tabs, TS – thanks fellas.
The Norwich game was played on a Friday night ‘cos, in those days, our matches that fell on the Saturday before Christmas were switched to Fridays, as otherwise people (fans) would have been shopping on the Saturday afternoon!
Sad but true, of the times . . .
All the Best to you and your Mum, Sweeper. Difficult times.
The Scene : Β Happy Train Executive Carriage
Professor Storey is handing an envelope to Dr Feelgood, Dr Disorder is slumped unconscious in a chair in the corner of the room, Wolfgang is preening excitedly at the mirror……..
Edwin : “No, it’s NOT a bung, it’s a bill! Β Extensive maintenance…..”
Feelgood : “Maintenance? Β Did she divorce me? Was I there, and conscious?”
Edwin : “Repairs. Β The disgruntled have been vandalising again…..”
Feelgood (relieved) : “Put it on the ticket prices. Β Well just get Bill to sell it as an “enhancement to the service” and get the punters to pay…..where is the elusive DJ anyway?”
Edwin : “Dr Spin has been complaining of an extensive workload of late…..a few unforeseen results and all the weak start demanding refunds…..they really are quite a needy bunch this season….”
Feelgood : “Ach, Bill needs to grow a pair…..”
In the background Smallballs is prancing at the mirror, repeatedly half-singing “I’ve got a ticket, I’ve got a ticket, I’ve got a ticket for Yoo-ny-ted….”
Feelgood : “So what else is new?”
Edwin : “There’s a reporter waiting to speak to you. Β From Glasgow. Β Have you been anywhere near Glasgow lately?”
Feelgood : “I’d rather stick needles in my eyes. Β What’s he want?”
Edwin : “Seems some of the Feelgood relatives have gone out on a limb….heh”
Feelgood : “Well, he’ll have to wait. Β I want to get to the matter at hand….what’s all this noise about pulling off Walcott? Β Do they mean before the watershed? We don’t want another edition of the Feelgood Tapes….”
Edwin : “Keep your shirt on. Β They just want to see the Ox.”
Feelgood : “The Who?”
Edwin : “No, not that one……”
Clive, best wishes to your mum.
Trev @238 – Of course !
Dr Z @240 – Heh π There shall be much preening and indeed excitement in the Smallballs bathroom come sunday ! I think the occasion demands a new pair of Speedoes . Perhaps a pair , the design of which , would encapulate a message to the team .
“Show some bollocks ” π
Heh π
I see that after another disastrous week , The Speedo Massive have now dropped to 6th in The Holic HT League , and have been supplanted in 5th by H2H’s mob .
Thought I’d better check out who H2H has got turning out for him .
What do I find ? Only that he has Bale , Adebaywhore , and Gallas in his side . WTF ??????
Lucky the fella is away on a “a bit of business” . He has some serious explaining to do !
Dropped to 6th? Pah, I’ve been rooted to the bottom for weeks and weeks…
Dr F @ 240, s’been some time, a great return as far as I’m concerned π
Heh, thanks Hurricane π
You guys are disgusting!!!
I have another league with 3 of my friends and I keep telling them that as an Arsenal fan I would never put a Spud, Manc, Chav etc (which reminds me – I need to replace Richards, Enrique and Kompany, I’ve already got replacements lined up, I only need to get a transfer in the next gameweek!).
Then they look at the leagues I’m participating at and they tell me that “Holic’s league is full of Spurs players!!”
Your points are impure and should be disregarded.
Ollie should be the president of the leagues because he always enforces it and not once did he have a Manc (of both sides!), Mugsmasher, Spud, Chav, or a Stoke player!
Ollie for president.
(Holic, I still love you, and I know that you’re in other leagues so you’re excused, but as for the HT league, it should be a pure league!!!!)
All my honest opinion of course π
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/kroenke-too-silent-on-staying/article_4809ffe5-9157-5fa8-9ddd-f5bdcb0bbe79.html
TABs @ 235: Oh? That discussion was before my time on Goonerholic…Gosh we should pull that thread and have it on standby when a decent defeat like Swansea happens again…
I was there for that 1-1 draw – and remembering getting sick afterwards right through to the New Year…but I have a vague memory that I was poorly going into that game having caught a cold in a cross-country run the week before….I tend to lump these Arsenal bad experiences into one part of my brain…but that’s not the game I am thinking about even though I clearly merged the low crowd and the freezing temperatures into that night of pure misery…
I was also there for all the games you mentioned – except I can’t remember the Spartak Moscow game somehow: what I seem to recollect is us giving an ovation to Hadjuk Spit but I could be wrong…but the Watford game and one against Vinnie Jones’ Wimbledon ranks with the Norwich game as one of the worst in my memory.
I think the game I was thinking of, and mixing myself up with, was the 0-3 defeat against Norwich on the 21 Nov, 1972 – a League Cup game. Another game we lost on an equally freezing day that left a resolve in me to tough it out with my team no matter what. That game heralded a long sequence of pure hardship for us Gooners right up to the FA Cup final loss to Ipswich. But I think that everyone who was at Wembley that day knew we were coming back to win the Cup the next year simply by the way the team looked at the final whistle.
It was those kinds of games that galvanized in me a die-hard commitment to the Arsenal that has stayed with me since. You see I missed all the Wenger glory years having migrated in 1990 – first to Germany and then in 1992 to Jamaica – and have only seen sporadic games live when I visit the U.K….So for me its all all great to see what a Powerhouse we have become but I always remember the terrible years and give thanks…Glory hunter I am not!! (0;
Zico you are like a healing balm to my Gooner Spirit mate…Can you imagine if Feelgood was the Chairman of the Arsenal Board?
Erm, GT, don’t ya think our beloved team have enough problems with the current Board?
Feelgood and Carnegie have one thing in common, and it ain’t philanthropy π
Snir – pretty strong stuff coming from someone who has fielded Mugsmashers and Chavs from the start ! π
GoonerTerry – Some great memories there .
The Spartak game was in 82-83 . They hammered us with a brand of pass and move football , which I certainly hadn’t seen before , and it was they who got the ovation .
We played Hadjuk Split in the same competition (Uefa Cup) in 78-79 . We lost 2-1 away , but a Big Willie special gave us a 1-0 home win , and we sneaked through on the away goals rule .
I would have been too young to have attended a night game in ’72 , so would not have been at the Norwich game you mention .
I applaud and endorse your commitment to the cause . Having been lucky enough to have had a ringside seat for all of AW’s time at the club , (other than this season) , and having suffered with you throughout much of the seventies and eighties , I am always perpetually amazed at some of the hand-wringing that now greets every defeat .
Arsene Wenger has given me football that throughout my first 25 years at Highbury would only ever have been a very distant dream . For that alone , he will always have my support .
Feelgood as Chairman of Arsenal ?
Then our cries of spend some effin’ money really would fall on deaf ears !! π
I think you’ll find mr tabs, that the Feelgood Foundation are particularly adept at spending somebody else’s money.
Just sayin’ π
Heh π
I guess everyone has read Blogs today already, but thought he was very much in nail-on-head territory.
I’m not expecting any major surgery this month but we have a very interesting summer ahead of us, whatever happens.
Yeh thought it was a good piece Dr Z .
Read some of the comments on Aclf earlier today , and he (Blogs) was getting a bit of stick . Those guys don’t tolerate even the mildest of criticisms , which in its own way is almost as knuckle headed as the pungent rubbish on Le Grove .
Tabs –
I see an Armani thing happening here, along the lines of his “Whatever it Takes” charity designs.
We could now have the “Show some Bollocks” Speedoes, along with a whole range of attire.
The open-fly trouser and the transparent panelled overcoat spring immediately to mind.
Brilliantly written story about Veronique in the last drinks, by the way, π π
Preaching to the choir there maestro,
jackboots are de rigeur amongst yogi’s warriors π
Just off to peruse Blogs myself now.
Hey Zico, a good evening to you sir. Not “reading” this evening ? π
Just finished trev, devoured cover to cover.
Very exciting it was too, where the hero came to a sticky end. π
I know the type Zico – a cosmopolitan hero who got caught up in a bit of hustle (and bustle) while out on parade in Mayfair.
Or the type who goes nuts in the zoo after a night on the razzle which finished in a penthouse with a couple of asian babes.
Oh yes, I know where your heros come from – as it were, π
It’s all one big Fiesta of fun, Trev. π
Thnks to everyone for their kind thoughts on my Dear Old Mum.
Let’s hope we are celebrating her 91st this time next year,when we are 8pts clear at the top of the table,unbeaten, and with a goal diff of + 40.!!
BTM’s crystal ball,[ which he has loaned me in his absence ],is quite murky,and i cannot quite make out whether we managed to squeak into the CL or not.
Cheers
The Sweeper.
Dr Z @259 – I fear so .
Evening Trev , @260 – ” Wolfie’s his name , Fashion’s his game ” π
Cheers for the kind words re Veronique . Hopefully , that idiot in the last drinks will take my advice π
And @263 and@264 heh , some blasts from the past there ! π
Zico @ 240
Top drawer as always.
Evening Clive ,
Glad you checked on the provenance of your crystal globe . Wouldn’t want you messing around with Snir’s balls , for his own sake !!! π
SG@213: I understand that Arsenal would have to pay off the rest of Almunia’s contract, but there is only a few months to run and it might be worth it to clear the spot in the rosterβassuming, as you say, there is some incoming to clear it for.
dy@216: AA is a riddle (Russian enigma?). After a great deal of reflectionβok, I just thought of thisβhe may be one of those players around whom a side has to be built rather than being one of those who can slot into any system (as Arteta, for example, seems to be). There is no question that he is not an Overmars/Pires/Gervinho type, all of whom fit AW’s preferred system of the day. And we should feel some sympathy for AA in that he has been played out of position. His pass for RvP’s goal against Swansea, a sublime touch of skill, came from a position more his natural habitat than the left flank (the defensive end of which is terra incognita to him). I suspect why AW likes to bring through players rather than buy the finished article is that he can mold them to his systems. That by the way makes Park even more of a riddle. The South Korean team he plays so well for is built around teamwork and doesn’t really have any stars.
Wind@224. I was just expecting you to ghost in from out of nowhere and take the 200 with your usual immaculate skill, leaving mine as 201. But not doing so, makes you only more lovableβ¦
Clive@227: Treasure her all you can.
Tabs@235: You chose the more interesting spectacle.
Trev@260: βShow some Bollocksβ Speedoes. Brilliant. Madison Ave awaits.
Tabs
I’m thinking of sending Tiffany October’s cousin, April April,
[yes,she was named after a month ] round to see Snir.
Unlike Tiffany,April does house calls,and is apparently expert at polishing and emptying Globes of all shapes and sizes.!!
It sounds ike the Boy needs to lighten his load.!!
Goonerterry, Tabs:
Strangely I don’t remember that 1-1 freezing draw in 1979 against Norwich but I’m sure I was there, I never missed a home game in those days (rarely an away game either).
GT I remember that league cup game of ’72, I think it was on a tuesday night and we lost to a Graham Paddon hat trick. I remember feeling absolutely dejected after the game and feeling sick going into school the following day.
Also Tabs I remember that Spartak Moscow game and the score. We were dismantled by the most stunning pass and move football and Highbury rose as one at the final whistly to applaud our victorious opponents off. I suppose today there would only be a handful of ‘fans’ left at half time to boo and jeer our players as they left the field.
@ Ned 269 – regarding AA: I wonder why Le Boss doesn’t play him more centrally given that he was so productive there for Zenith and for the Russian National team…Hmmm sometimes the boss mystifies me. Lets leave it at that (0;
I have been thinking that my ideal team (if we are still on our self-imposed austerity programme) would look something like this:
Woj
Verm / BFG / Kos
Santos Sagna
Song
Jack / Arshavin / Arteta
RvP
I would do away with the accursed full-back position relying instead on three at centre back supported by wing-backs. Song would anchor midfield and be part of a three-man defensive “shield” along with the wing-backs as needs be. But they can quickly break into an offensive pattern to spring quick counter attacks (Santos & Sagna down the wings and Song through the middle)…Jack & Arteta would play either side of AA who in turn would play in the hole behind RvP.
To finish off this master plan I would install Dr. Feelgood as Chair of the Board and have Edwin take over the mess that is the PR department at the Club!!
Comments?
RvP
Geoff @ 270: What school if you don’t mind me asking?
Those were the days eh – pre-fickle glory hunters (what’s the term my hero Dr. Feelgood calls them?)…Did you ever remember anyone booing the team in those days?…I remember my mate V “chinning” a fellow Gooner who would not sing when we were down against West Ham once…honestly (0;
GT: Hendon school.
I don’t ever remember booing but I do remember the dreaded slow hand clap, those were the days.
Ps Trev, sorry I meant to address my previous post to you also.
Evening all. Been a tad busy but felt I needed to reply to the earlier debate.
TABS. You asked me what I actually mean when I said “are we the best we can be?” I believe that we operate as a football club as a whole. It is not just the team that take the pitch. It is a lot more than that. However, ultimately we are judged by what the first team achieve. They drive the organisation. Therefore the main aim of the club has to be securing the best team available and providing the manager with the best tools available to secure the best results. I have and will always remain a big AW fan. I just have my doubts if the supporting cast is good enough.
I have never asked us to go crazy. I have never asked us to be reckless and spend millions we don’t have. But I do feel very strongly that we are being let down by those at the club who have charge of the purse strings.
The “how much money do we have?” is always a debate. The truth is that we will never know exactly. But the figures make interesting reading. We were all told that the move to the Grove would not affect the transfer budget available. We were told that the move was to facilitate our growth and allow us to compete at the highest level. I think we all expected a few years of being frugal. But where does that end?
Trev makes a great point at 185 quoting big Frank. For all of our difference of opinions expressed on here I feel that we are almost united in agreeing that the PR at the club in recent years has been poor at best. I will never understand how we can hold press conferences to tell the world how well financially we have done, only to plead poverty when it comes to spending in the transfer market?
I am someone who believes that you speculate to accumulate. But that does not mean spending rashly. I also believe that just a few top signings a season brings a massive lift to the club with both players and fans. Sami spoke a lot of pants before he departed but one quote attributed to him did make a lot of sense. He stated that he did not always have to give 100% as he knew he would be picked due to the fact there was nothing in the reserves that was going to challenge him. That situation can not be right, can it?
So, what are the figures? Well, for the period of 2006 to 2011 we have spent a total of Β£85,150,000. Not bad in 5 years when we have a new stadium that needs to be paid for. That is until you realise that player sales totals Β£116,500,000. In the last 5 years we have made a profit of over Β£31,000,000. Add that to the fact that have generated Β£187.2m from property sales and the board have stated in the 2011 accounts that they expect to gain a further Β£79m in receipts from the sale of the flats currently being built around the stadium. I would suggest that that should leave us in a quite a decent position financially regardless of how bit our mortgage is.
So, there you have it. That is why it frustrates the hell out of me when we wont pay that little bit extra to land the odd player or two of real quality. The players that will make a real difference. I do not just mean in the pitch either. It is this kind of strengthening that may have influenced the likes of Cesc and Samir that their futures lay at The Arsenal. The pair contributed 24 goals and 23 assists last season when neither were at their best. Have we missed them??? You decide.
So what I mean when I say I want us to be the best we can be is that I would like some of that transfer surplus and profit made from us paying punters re-invested. As I said, I do not expect or want us to go and spend with gay abandon. Far from it. I just want us to live within our means.
We all know that we have a battle to finish 4th. The implications of finishing outside the top 4 are not good. How do we show to others that we are a club on the up? How do we demonstrate that we are a top top side? It breaks my heart when I look at the quality that we have in the squad as a whole when I see figures like those above. In my humble opinion we have under achieved. We are under achieving, and we will continue to under achieve unless we add that bit of quality that is needed.
I will conclude with one final point. When is the Grove at a complete hush? It is whenever RVP is laying on the ground injured. Why is that? It’s because we all know that there is no credible alternative if he was to have a sustained period on the side lines. Watching him slowly getting to his feet is like being at a James Brown gig. I just wish that with confidence I could belt out “I feel Good.”
So I guess “be the best you can be” means maximise what you have to maximise the results. If that is not good enough then I can live with that. What I struggle with is knowing that we have a squad that in my humble opinion could be so much better.
TABS, never confrontational. Articulate and learned as ever. I enjoy reading your posts and I very much enjoy the debate.
Onwards and upwards.
Steve ,
Cheers for getting back . Have to say that that is a fantastically written and well thought out post , with which I can find very very little to disagree with . Certainly , all the points you make become more and more salient the longer this period of austerity goes on , given that more money is now available .
I would argue that up to 2010 the level of debt the new stadium incurred , coupled with the changing global financial situation led to very real concerns at the Club that they may have over-reached themselves and they acted accordingly .
Since 2010 , however , the situation has eased , Highbury has been all but sold off , and the points you make are hugely persuasive .
I remember being completely flummoxed as to why a marquee signing , (as you say , as much to lift the Club) , in the summer of 2010 was not made , whilst last summer beggared belief at times .
Whilst whole-heartedly agreeing with the points you raise , the only thing I would say in the Club’s defence is that the advent of both the petro dollars in Manchester and the Gangster roubles in Chelsea has skewered the market to such a degree that signing players even from the second rather than the top drawer is now inordinately more difficult , as selling Clubs , players and their agents , wait for Man City and Chelsea to show their hand before entertaining other Clubs , such as Arsenal .
It is late , and I must turn in , but thanks again for such a fantastic reply . Have a beer on me when you’re next in the Bar .
Clive @270 – heh , April April , What a gal ! π
Geoff @271 – Heh , Graham Paddon eh !!! Blast from the past . Looked like a yeti and I believe played for West Ham in the ’75 Cup Final .
Does anyone know when Sky releases the televised fixtures for March?
Steve T & TABs: Every now and again I find myself amazed by the quality of the patrons of this bar. Steve, like TABs, I can find no argument with your excellent post. You have laid out a salient and cohesive response to TABs equally wonderful summation earlier. What can I say but applaud you both.
When I was leaving England – knowing that I would return only infrequently – I made a symbolic investment of a couple of shares in the club. I had sold my flat in Hornsey and figured that it would have been the money that I would have spent on the Arsenal anyway. I did not know it then but that investment has changed my whole perception of the club in ways that I never, ever would have thought of before. For one thing I really “get” the notion of the ‘Self Sustaining’ model that we are pursuing. And even though – like you – I am frustrated that Wenger seems loathed to spend millions on established players (i.e. Matta), I understand his stance on the economics of transfers. The dynamics of the market is that right now it is toxic and has been for a number of years. Its not only the transfer fees but the wages plus agents fees that has to be considered. Every time you bring in a high priced player and agree to a high salary you inflate the asking price of your current players – agents use what you recently paid as a starting point when negotiating for their own clients. Its a vicious circle. Wenger as an Economist understands this.
One value of having a couple of shares in the club is having access to shareholder information not normally available to the general fan base or the general public. Last year’s report laid out a discussion about the strategy the club was taking in the wake of what I understood was quite a bruising encounter between shareholders & management a few months before. Here is what I gleaned from the document:
1). There is always a sufficient level of funds made available to Le Boss for player purchases – even during construction of the new stadium.
2) Wenger is never under any pressure to sell before he can buy players – its his policy, and not the Board’s dictate, that he has consistantly sold players he deemed to by past their prime.
3) Wenger is highly regarded by all members of the Board – including new majority shareholder SK – and they are always at pains to communicate that his job is to run the playing side of the operation.
4) Directors of Arsenal Holdings do have a dual view of the club than most fans: They see a Football Club, plus, a supporting business operation dedicated to providing a world-class matchday experience to their members (us ordinary fans and the various corporate customers) …
5) They have taken the decision to not stockpile cash but to use unspent funds to pay down their short term debt – that’s their first priority – because they believe that all our fortunes rests on us being debt-free or “debt managed”… they are playing the long term game and they believe that the current financial will mean that a lot of clubs will eventually go under…this is a serious problem.
6) We are still – as ever – committed to our youth project. That is how we plan to secure our future: through the discovery & development of world-class prospects. We have some excellent young players – four or five – playing at near the almost the level of Cesc at that age. They are just a little too young now but 2012 and onwards we should start to see the 2 Spanish boys, the German whizz kid and a couple of very clever English boys break through.
So looking through my shareholder’s lens I can find no quarrel with this strategy at all. In fact I feel it is damn good business and I wished I had had the courage to put the whole of the money I had available at the time into Arsenal shares instead of just a token few.
But when I look through my passionate supporter’s lens however I get as frustrated as the other person at what seems to be our stagnation on the playing side of the equation. But that will change soon…
* Point 5: the current financial situation…
βI would like to bid for the major stars, but the Arsenal boardβs wage structure will not allow it. We urgently need a pick-up in the League because we are down in thirteenth place. Thatβs virtually unheard of in my time as manager at Highbury.β
GT – That quote is a quote by George Graham, shortly before he was sacked.
That kinda goes against your number 1 point.
Or is the board allocating funds to AW that weren’t previously available to Graham?
Reading your number 1 and 2 point I can’t help but think that something is flawed.
Surely if it was no problem then AW should have bought that player that we needed to get over the line and most of the fee paid for that player would be earned in prize money.
Yes, I know big name players are no guarantee whatsoever to trophies, but we have been saying that it is to AW’s credit that he managed to keep us competitive after the move to the Ems despite being shackled by the financial state of the club.
Yet, you’re telling us he could have invested and build on our success and move to the Ems?
Something doesn’t feel right to me.
Snir: not really. Graham had burned his bridges long before that time. Money was indeed in short supply then but once Danny Fitzman gained control of the Board he pored 50 million pounds into the club and certainly Bruce Rioch and then Wenger saw the benefit of this.
But I was really dealing with the Wenger years in my comments above – seeing that this was what we have been discussing..
GT – I get that and that was my second part of the post.
Start reading from this line on – “Reading your number 1 and 2 point I canβt help but think that something is flawed.”
Something feels wrong, why would he reject the idea to invest if he had the chance all along?
Why not build on the success and the move to the Ems to build a better legacy than he already had?
Like I said, I know that big name signings don’t guarantee anything but surely it’s better to go with experienced players who are ready to play in the PL than to wait for the youngsters to blossom, isn’t it?
Snir @ 281: Generally speaking there is or never has there ever been any disharmony between the manager and the board. Wenger was very much in favour of the new stadium (Dein was not. Fitzman was. Wenger was caught in the middle)…When the club committed to building the Emirates they wanted to make sure that the manager would be able to manage on a shoestring for a few years. He gave his full blessings knowing that he had an ace up his sleeve: Two things happened that could not have been anticipated:
1. Wenger was never a big spender – and as we know – was a master at finding value for money in France & African countries. What happened was the massive increase in the use of Agents and all of a sudden these players that were at first almost the private preserve of Arsenal were suddenly made available to all and sundry…..and,
2. Chelsea and the Abramovich factor. All of a sudden Chelsea would double our bids: Essien we bid 8 Million, they paid double figures, same with Cech, same with Drogba and on and on..
Steve T@275: difficult to find anything to disagree with in your post, or with Tabs’ repost @276.
My only thought is that the new stadium-cum-youth project was conceived and implemented (front loading sponsorships &c) in a way that would have been sufficient to keep us competitive in a pre-Abramovich era. That era has gone, doubly so with the advent of Man City’s Middle Eastern money. Our die was cast, however, at least for the duration of the move to the Emirates and the clearing of its financing. In the meantime, there was little margin for error in the depth of the playing squad (purchasing or injuries). We have been skirting it for several seasons now.
We now may be at the point where we have the money, and the demands on it are such, that we can adjust the cost base of the way the club is run. Certainly the push is on on the commercial side of the club, where we have underperformed compared to our peers. Whether that will be enough to pay player transfer fees and more importantly wages and bonuses at the level that the Chelseas and Man Citys have run them up to is another matter.
Every fan likes a marquee signing. I agree with you about the folly of splashing silly money (see Carroll, Flores et al). Maybe AW just doesn’t have an eye for them, anyway. Our last successful marquee signing was who? Dennis? And he predated AW. Otherwise go back through our biggest stars in the AW era that he didn’t inherit. They mostly all came young: RvP, Cesc, Thierry, Robert, Paddy. Maybe Diaby and Eduardo would have been on that list in other circumstances. The big-money signings, AA and Jeffers, for example, haven’t often turned out well.
The club’s business strategy has relied in large part on AW turning good players in to great onesβthe sort of assumption that would appear in a business plan buried in the risks section hoping investors would gloss over it. The miracle is that he has managed it as often as he has, while at the same time overseeing the modernization of the club in so many respects. That Arsenal would be a top team not just in England but Europe, wasn’t a given then. Remember the season before he arrived, the top five teams in the Premiership included Blackburn, Notts Forrest and Leeds.
The biggest disaster now would be to lose all that has been achieved since then. None of us would want that.
GT@279: I pray you are right, and they all stay fit and injury-free.
If UEFA holds the top clubs under its sway, our self-sustaining model will win out in the end. My nightmare is that the top European clubs do a Premβbreak away from UEFA and set up their own competition fueled by the TV money that would follow them.
GT – That’s exactly my point.
Why should AW manage on a shoestring if there was money available even after the move and there was no need to release a big player each year to “survive”
If there was money, why was managing on a shoestring even brought up as an option.
Managing on a shoestring is usually when there isn’t any money, is it not?
Continuing…After the premature decline of the Invincibles Wenger seemed determined to develop his own super team from scratch. He came close. Very, very close on at least two occasions. He was heart broken when he did not win the Premier League and the CL with his young team – we all were. It was hard for him to let go of the idea that he had to dismantle that team and build another.
READ THIS NEXT STATEMENT CAREFULLY:
He is still massively conflicted because he wants to build another super team – even after Cesc – but the immense pressure from the fans, NOT the Board, has seen him embark on this stop gap measure. People should listen more to what Wenger actually says instead of speculating on what he will not say: He is on record as saying that almost every single player at the club last year wanted to leave in the summer. Such was the disruption caused by Cesc’s protracted departure, our collapse of last season AND certain influences trying to take advantage of what they perceived to be a weakened Wenger. The fact is that he is definitely not weak and he is no fool. History will vindicate his management you all will see soon enough…
Ned @ 287: That will not happen as the influential German clubs are all supportive of FFP. In fact they all see it as an opportunity to reign in Real, Barca and our own bastards here in England. We may yet see a breakaway European super league but it won’t be a league for the deeply indebted but a league based on the ideas of Platini and UEFA. But right now UEFA is busy in a cold war with FIFA over control of the European game. If they don’t stand up to FIFA soon the Germans led by Bayern will instigate a breakaway.
GT – You don’t have to try and convince us that AW is a genius and that he will be vindicated. I’m pretty sure that 95% of this bar is pro-AW.
I would still like to know the answer to my 287.
I was under the impression that when we moved to the Ems he was told to manage on a shoestring and promote the project youth because of the debt created by the move and the lack of funds.
Yet, you’re telling me, that not only was there money, but he didn’t HAVE to promote project youth because he didn’t have to sell his star player every summer.
Why was managing on a shoestring as you put even brought up as an option if there was money available to the manager?
We did move to the Ems in 06, after Abramovich had started buying PL titles, so I would have expected people at the club to adapt to the new reality. Staying in the same place when everybody else is moving is not adapting, it’s taking the club backwards.
NED @ 285: Sorry to be drinking out of sequence but I totally concur with your points and stated as much a few days ago..I don’t think that its true that Wenger doesn’t have an eye for the more established player – he just don’t like them! That’s really it – not the money. Money is only incidental. He just likes young pliable players that he can mold himself. You hardly hear him quibbling about the price of a young ‘un do you? Look at how much he paid for the OX for example. I think that he would pay a lot for a player like Goatze but would be loathed to splash out on a player like Samba for example.
Snir @ 290: I have tried to answer your points at 287 in various ways. ~Better to say that you are not satisfied with my answer. I have said that Wenger was never a big spender. I have said that the youth project was never forced on him but that it was of his own design in the first place. I have said that the rise of the Agents greatly inflated his preferred & perfected mode of player acquisition. I have said that Chelsea outbided us for several of our targets. You point out that Abramovich arrived before the move to the new Stadium was finalized. But remember that the plans were in place for several years before. Financing was dependent on a business plan etc..The club just couldn’t ‘turn on a dime’ and react to situations like you seem to think it could. The fact is that Wenger did pretty much as he wanted – under the circumstances. And its not true that he was forced to do anything he did not agree to all along. The pro-Wenger lobby (me, you & most Holics included) not wanting to blame him for all our troubles like to imagine that there is a stingy old Board holding tightly on to the purse strings against Wenger’s better judgment. But that’s just not true. What IS true though is that Wenger being naturally cautious and a bit loathe to spend over the odds, has certainly missed Dein who was far better at taking risks than he ever will be…
I hope that this answers your question…because it is my last word. 12:14 AM Jamaica time and I have an early start in the morning…talk to you later old chum. NIGHTY NITE.
GT@291: You may well be correct on the eye vs desire question. No doubt AW has a clear vision of how football should be played and a football club run. He wants a team that reflects that vision, and molding it is the only way he can see to get it right.
I just find it hard to believe that AW had the opportunity to build on the success but instead chose to start from scratch.
Oh well…
Some day, it’ll all get better π
FA Cup then π ?
GT@289: (also back drinking out of order). I’ll bow to your superior knowledge of the realpolitik of European football. If FIFA and the moneybags top European sides got into bed together, why wouldn’t I be surprised…
SG@294: I guess the theory is that if you can make every part perfectly and make them fit together perfectly, you will have the ultimate in perfection when it comes to the finished product.
well since its the three of us left on the field…
GoonerTerry takes the ball forwards and seeing the runs of both Ned & Snir elects to play a lovely chipped ball behind the CB..
The world famous three-man attack sweeps forward….
GoonerTerry runs onto his own pass and squares for…
Who is it/was it?
Blushes immodestly…
But hails the quality of the delivery.
Nice assist, GT.
Yes Ned..now I can retire for the night knowing that I have earned the adulation of the crowd for the sumptuous assist that you so erm .. so “tentatively” tucked away (0;
Geoff @ 274
School Days.
Clitterhouse Juniors,then Whitefield Sec Mod,down the road from Hendon.
I broke the 100 yd sprint London Schools record at the Burroughs Sports Fields in i think 63 or 64.
Won in a photo finish from a bloke called Rennie,who was unbeaten at the distance for 4yrs prior to our race.
I was supposed to go on to the all England Schools Championships,later the same year,but sliced my left knee down to the bone,during the Battle for Hill 13.
It was so bad,i couldn’t run competitively for 3 yrs,by which time the running World had passed me by.
Such is Life.
Cheeers
The Sweeper.
PS Lots of very long coherent posts on here,
Tabs/SteveT/NBN/GT and anyone else i missed,top stuff.
NBN – That’s a great theory… I for one would be very happy if were to happen… π
By the way fellas… Do you guys know a good (normal, no Herods please lol) hotel? I’m sure many of you know some good ones.
My regular hotel is booked in March and I’m looking for a new one…
Thanks π
Interesting debate above, well done Steve T, tabs, GT and NBN.
Only thing I would disagree with is the notion that the German clubs would be able to prevent a super league super rich breakaway. If push came to shove, the BIG club (i.e. Bayern) would take its place in line with the rest, and I think a european league, based on money and TV calling the shots is inevitable in my lifetime.
Regardless of what is said to shareholders GT, I too am skeptical about the fact the the club had transfer money available and it wasn’t spent. Especially when you consider the fact that Arsene has always been more successful with a mix of experienced players and youth, why would he willingingly shoot himself in the foot and rely on only youth for so many years?
In my opinion, after he broke up the Invincibles he may have decided with the board that to rebuild for the long term without significant transfer money being available for years, there was no other choice but to do so.
However, after getting the job done on a shoestring for so many years it seems that pursestrings are still being kept tight for some reason or the other. Which is why we’ve seen an uptight Arsene on the sidelines for several years. He never used to stress out so much before. No matter what he says in public or to the team itself, there is no way he could’ve been satisfied with performances in recent years.
But again, just my opinion, and this is an extremely deadhorse us gooners have been whipping for years without knowing all of the background details…
On a completely different topic, I got the Rebels for the Cause: The Alternative History of Arsenal Football Club for Christmas and just finished reading it. Has anyone else had the opportunity to read it? I enjoyed it pretty much but wondering what the older gooners think about the way the controversies that occurred in the 70s and 80s were described.
Finally, before I forget, happy belated birthday to your mum Clive. I hope it was a good one.
Drinks all around fellow gooners! Almost the end of the workday for me, unfortunately I still have a couple of chapters in this book to translate…bah humbug
Andrey Arshavin is heading towards Lazio in a Β£6m deal.
Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/football/premier-league/44444/sale-duds-arshavin-and-torres-poised-leave-london#ixzz1jnGQYEmz
When will it end????????
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Arsenal-exclusive-Thierry-Henry-major-doubt-for-Manchester-United-game-because-of-calf-injury-article854903.html
Arteta a doubt too.
First part of what Zico said @ 307
As for the second part – hmmm in his lifetime he says. I’ve seen him at it in the boozer, and in and around the CMC – soooo are we talking next season maybes, or the season after that??? Best get me Bayern membership sorted sharpish – ich bin ein municher – yah!
COR i remember it being a fine read and i remember the s***s sick as a parrot story then my memory gives out. But on the plus side i can reread the thing and enjoy it again
Happy belated one to your mum The Sweeper
Hi AL,
for all you know I could be on a major detox.
Oh look, a squadron of airborne pigs !!!
Ahhhhhhh! pork scratchings with wings – early morning one for me please barman!
GT, tabs, Steve T, Snir, Mr Sweeper, top quality posts from all of you.
Top play from GT and NBN for the link up play, assist and goal π
CoR, your link at 309, not sure whether to make it out as good or bad, good that we are freeing up another squad place, bad that we are taking a Β£6 million loss on the person that scored the winner against Ba*ca.
Snir, your link @ 310 is just a downer on this gloomy Wednesday morn
π
Zico, I have just one word to say about detox.
DON’T!
Halfway through mine. First pint at 5.15 Friday will vanish at a speed even I haven’t managed in years.
Fruit and cod liver oil, FFS π
Oh, ok then.
Pub straight after work, following advice from my most learned consultant.
Detox ? Do you mean wine instead of whisky ? π
Dr. Z: said.. “Only thing I would disagree with is the notion that the German clubs would be able to prevent a super league super rich breakaway”.
What I was trying to say is that Byern and the top German clubs support FFP and would only instigate a breakaway if they can get no joy in the impasse between UEFA and FIFA…Byern are not in the same camp as the financial dopers..
I wish TaBS.
I mean apples. pears, bananas, grapes, water, and cod liver oil.
Gah! π
Brilliant stuff overnight from Goonerterry , Ned , Snir and Canons .
GoonerTerry – I take your point re the additional information to shareholders , though would argue that this stuff generally found its way into the public domain . Because of that transparency , I would contend that even in the circulars to shareholders , there was a huge amount of “politicking” going on .
From the period of the move to 08 , AW still enjoyed almost unanimous support from the fan-base , ( yes Le Grove was up and running but they were very much an isolated voice in their childish condemnation ) , and The Board knew that they could hide behind his popularity by stating that money was available to him if he so deemed it necessary .
The more pertinent question is how much money ? Certainly not enough to attract the kind of players that AW wanted . I feel sure that pre-Abramovich both Cech and Essien , ( and probably Drogba too ) , would have ended up at Arsenal . With the debts of both the new Stadium , and redeveloping Highbury , we simply couldn’t compete with the bountiful millions suddenly available at Chelsea .
Faced with this new reality , AW took the decision to invest heavily in youth , rather than spend what monies that were available to him on vastly over-priced second tier players , and got so so close in reaping the rewards in 07-08 .
That said , and as Steve T has so brilliantly pointed out , mistakes were made . To not acknowledge those mistakes ( as so many on , for example , Aclf , don’t wish to do ) , appears to me to be silly in the extreme , when the Great Man himself is so willing to admit to them .
From January 08 through to the close season of that year , we lost Gilberto , Diarra , Flamini and Hleb and brought in only Nasri , choosing to rely on the increasingly injury prone Diaby and the youth of Denilson . That was a strategy that clearly didn’t pay off .
In the summer of ’09 , we were a few million short when bidding for Alonso . Maybe we really were at the limit of what we could afford , though I find it hard to believe that we could not have pushed the boat out and found the extra few million to make the transfer happen . Imagine what a midfield of Alonso and Fabregas might have achieved . Similarly , what might Arteta have achieved had he arrived 2 or 3 seasons earlier ?
The failure to buy a stellar centre half in the summer of 2010 clearly cost us ( especially when Vermaelen suffered a season ending
injury ) , whilst the persistence with the deeply flawed Almunia was baffling in the extreme . Last summer has been done to death , but whatever went on , it raised huge question marks about the vision of the Club going forward .
GoonerTerry – Agree completely with your post @284 .
Ned @285 – brilliant post .
Clive @305 – Given your clear propensity for the sprint were you known in the sixties as Clive “lunchbox” Waterman ? π
Holic @319 – That doesn’t sound good ! We will have to put that right on sunday ! π
Tabs @ 105
“Great is our admiration of the orator who speaks with fluency and discretion”
Steve T:
Wonderful reposte.
Gooner Terry:
A bottle of your finest old jamaican rum for this man please…….
Y’see Holic, with such wonderful contributors and characters in your bar, and yet there you are outside sipping green tea and eating lettuce. In the words of the immortal John Mortimer, “I would rather an extra slice of chocolate cake, than another year in the geriatric ward”!
Joe , thanks for your kind words , and heh π
Who is that quote from btw ?
John Mortimer by the sounds of it, tabs π
Arf Arf π
I think he meant the first one, maestro…
π
Now that you mention it tabs, was Big Tone a “Stella” centre half?
TABs @ 320: Once again excellent. I agree with Joe @ 322 – your 105 is a masterpiece of prose and reason. The discussion between you, Steve T, Geoff for me has been the best that I have seen anywhere. Only perhaps John Mortimer could have done better….Rumpole what??
@ Joe: A sip of 12-year old Appleton Preserve for me it is then and a full glass to you with fresh Coconut Water…and lots of ice in a tall glass (0;
Chocolate Cake all round barman..
I did indeed Holic π
Dr Z – if only TA were still available , “stella” or otherwise ! π
GoonerTerry – Cheers . Fancy I might slap on the Speedoes and join you in one of those Appleton Preserve with coconut water thingamebobs . Might look a bit silly down the local under the grey leaden London sky though π
John Mortimer ? Modern day Wodehouse as far as I’m concerned .
Boom, boom, boom goes the cannon of change….
@311: AL, My favourite story was the story of the Fairs Cup match between Arsenal and Lazio. Lazio equalized (with a dodgy penalty decision) to end the game 2-2 and at the banquet after the match, Lazio officials presented the Arsenal team with lady’s handbags. The boys got upset and threw them all over the place and then there was a massive brawl between the two teams with machine gun police having to get involved and Lazio were later fined by FIFA for instigating the whole thing….Is this where the term “handbags” comes from I wonder???
Warm sake for everyone in the bar…it’s cold like Murdoch’s heart in here
δΉΎζ―οΌοΌγοΌD
TABs you got me thinking: Mistakes. You know that I am a bit of a history buff and spend a great deal of my free time reading about the back story of world events of the past & it must be said..the present. But it is my contention that in each great enterprise there has been a fatal flaw; a mistake; a mis-calculation – call it what you will – but it led to the demise of many a great enterprise in history..I have come to view that the boss has made a few significant “miscalculations” that eventually undermined his plans in the past few years. These are:
1. Ashley Cole: He should have paid him the extra money he was seeking: Yes I know he had Clechy but Ashley was better, a winner, young, a future captain and an Invincible. Say what you will, but Clichy has never in all the subsequent years ever bettered Cole either defensively nor offensively…I fully expect to be savaged by some for this heresy..
2. Gilberto Silva: For the life of me I still can’t understand why we sold the Captain of Brazil (for 1 million pounds)…yes we had Flamini playing out of his skin that year and agitating for a better deal (shades of Nasri)…but Gilberto was the calm, solid experienced player that that young team missed so much when our season started to self destruct in subsequent years
3. William Gallas: I believe that bringing Gallas (a proven malcontent at Chelsea) to the club was perhaps – in hindsight it must be said – the biggest mistake of all. On top of that he should never have been made captain – Gilberto was a far better Captain than Gallas any day and would have handled the pressures better.
4. Robert Pires: Allowed to leave too soon – FACT!!
5. Cesc: Made Cesc captain in a bid to keep him when it was always obvious that a). Varmaelen was a better option, and; b). Cesc was always going to return to Barcelona no matter how conflicted he was about it..
6. Santos: WTF was Wenger thinking when he decided to play Santos in a meaningless game in the first place. Why did he even risked any of his first 11 when we had already won the group and qualified for the next round is beyond all reason..
Hey GT, if my memory serves me well I think either Dein was the one who messed up the Ashley Cole deal, or alternatively Ashley Cole was tapped up by Chelsea and nothing we could’ve done would make him sign depending on whose version is more believable
Holic @ 319 Nothing wrong eating low on the food chain. Personally, I eat nothing that has a face (code for vegan). Gives you lots of boundless energy, why pretty soon you will feel like skipping to and fro, just like some of the other fine lads at the bar. Oh, cheers Holic!!!
The Gallas/Silva/Flamini fiasco was terribly handled though :/
@ ABB: Not Vegan but lifelong vegetarian so I can attest to its benefits but I can assure you that you are wasting your time on these Bangers & Mash holics.. (0;
CoR: Ashley’s situation could have been saved. Yes he was tapped up by that Porto prick but he was a Gooner, loved the club and would have stayed had Wenger showed that he wanted him..Fact is that is we calculated that we had a ready-made replacement in Clichy and that was that!
CoR: We have never since managed to match the passion that Cole brought to his game at the back. When I think of how he single-hand-idly saved Chelsea’s ass time after time on their way to PL domination I cried…I think that Gooners everywhere must admit that we made a mistake to let him go; forgive him and move on…
Holic
How long have you been involved in this detocks nonsense??
Lily livered (literally) hippies. Change is bad, in my supreme professional opinion.
Stick to what your body knows best. Don’t confuse it.
Consult over. CMC is over there. Plenty of herbal stuff in that…
North Bank Ned, Steve T, GoonerTerry, Tabs, –
superb stuff from all at various above.
After considering all that has already gone, where does it actually leave us now ?
To me, I have to say, it feels like the last few years are revisiting us, only earlier in the season than ever.
We all recognise the quality we have in the squad, and we all know there are too many passengers too.
We all know there is money in the Player Transfer Account, and we can all work out that we are now over half way through the January window and there is not a word of our intentions.
Actually, to immediately self-correct, there is. AW has said that we need to sign a left-back, on some basis or other.
If that is the case, where is he ?
Are we just initiating scouting missions – is there someone in mind – is someone going to arrive before midnight on 31st January ?
Are we actually pursuing a striker, which every man and his dog knows we badly need ?
In the summer, I wasted too much of my life reading a huge number of pages of Swiss Ramble, to try to inform myself of how much money is available for players.
In the light of the answer, it is hugely frustrating to be paying ever more to support the team, as each season falls apart, for the same reasons, just as it promises to deliver success.
I know, folks are going to say it is difficult to sign players in January.
We don’t make it look that easy in July, do we ?
I know, folks are going to say we need to make room in the squad before new players can come in.
Can’t we just give some away and cut a few losses ?
After all, it would reduce the wage bill now, and what are we ever going to get, realistically, for Almunia, Squillaci, Arshavin, Chamakh, Fabianski, Park, and very sadly, and there are great reservartions about mentioning him in this context – Diaby.
Surely, even in January, we can improve on the above.
What is the word from the owner ?
As ever, nothing.
What does he want for this club ?
To make a profit, as TS says.
Well is dropping out of the Champions League and seeing more of our best players leave, the best way to build the value of the club, if that is what he wants ?
I know – we have unprecedented injuries in vital positions.
Unfortunately, the number of injuries we have is far from unprecedented, and it is too many of the usual suspects.
So, back to the original question – ‘where does all that leave us now’?
I can only requote the words of Frank McLintock –
“I am confused and frustrated, but what we have at the moment is unacceptable”
GoonerTerry @332 – a very interesting and , in my view , on the money analysis of some of the mistakes over the years . It is just one of the many disasters that Le Grove has wrought , that their poisonous proclamations have rendered any serious analysis of AW’s failings (such as yours) , almost obsolete . It should of course be possible to point out his failings whilst retaining a huge support for the man .
For my tuppence ha’penny worth I would say –
1. Agreed , but would agree with Canons that the Cole affair was mishandled by Dein , a fact pretty much admitted by AW subsequently . I , for one , find it pretty difficult to turn on any player who has once worn the red and white , especially those who wore it with such distinction as Cole , and I have never felt the same amount of ire towards him , as I do towards Adebayor and Nasri .
2. Agreed to an extent , though I do feel that Gilberto’s powers were waning . Feel that AW was led up the garden path by a procrastinating Flamini . As I alluded to above , the decision to allow Gilberto , Diarra and Flamini to leave within 6 months of each other and replace them with only the callow youth of Song and Denilson was AW’s biggest misjudgement of his Arsenal career . Diarra may have been a shit , but he was a magnificent player .
3. Agreed , though again , I think Dein’s hand was in this . He wanted to hurt Chelsea as much as improve us . I understand the reasons for it , but it was a misjudgement . Agreed that he should never have been made captain , in front of either Gilberto or Kolo , a decision which I think played some part in Kolo’s subsequent loss of both form and appetite for the game .
4. Probably , though I think Dreamy Bob decided to go as soon as he was subbed after the mad German’s sending off in the Champs League Final .
5. Agreed . Fab was not captaincy material and that of itself was never going to be enough to ward off the advances of Barca .
6. Agreed to an extent .
I would add to the mix :-
The failure to buy a first class centre half when TA called time and Keown was nearing the end . We had to make do with Thunderbird baddie lookalike Pascal Cygan , and that cost us the 02-03 Premiership when that team should have walked it .
The over-generous loyalty shown to some and the misplaced and naive faith that that loyalty would be returned .
The at times cavalier attitude towards the FA Cup .
A blind spot with regard to keepers . Seaman was held onto for at least 2 probably 3 seasons too long , whilst the faith in Almunia baffled .
I say all this on the basis that I remain the man’s greatest fan .
Meat , I want meat π
@339 – ” Mr C knows ! “
As usual , very sound stuff Trev . An early visit from you today .
Are you about on Sunday ?
abb @334 –
thanks a lot! Suddenly it feels very uncomfortable to think about eating anything that has a face – even worse than anything that has a name ! π
Do burgers have faces ? π
I am there on Sunday Tabs – and I hear you are sorted too. Good news.
Good afternoon one and all
Some seriously decent and thought provoking posts up there from Steve T, Gooner T, NBN, tabs, Snir, Trev, Geoff, etc. Thanks to all you fine fellows. I have only had time to skim read a few of the juicier ones (will back drink properly later) but the tone and level are commendable. Really hard to add to that lot.
I can’t agree with everything that’s been written although most of it makes huge sense but that’s the beauty of this bar: harmony through…er….well reasoned differences of opinion π
For me, it’s like we’re back at The Fulham game at the end of last season. Poor form, lack of confidence, inordinate number of injuries, some unsettled players, even more unsettled fans, silent board, TW open but no activity. Gah, meh & an extra helping of pah!
Some nice light relief (down Wolfie) very welcome to this Gooner from Dr.z, Dr.C, AL and Clive too. Cheers fellas and belated birthday wishes to your mum Clive.
As Dr.T was ironing out my knots this morning (down again Wolfie!) we managed to have a good old blether about the state of the ‘nation’. I think the club needs a lift. To me, the obvious way to do this and to show some real intent to maintain Top 4 Status (minimum) and, more importantly, greater things like a genuine push for the title (next season) we should make a bold move in the transfer market. Just one decent, attacking player entering the prime of his career would do it. I don’t want us to break the bank. I love the fact that we push this self-sustaining model but not at the expense of becoming a team that may or may not qualify for the CL next season. I want us to strengthen our squad, lift our squad, show genuine ambition to those players that deserve it and show that jobs are on the line to those that don’t.
Jaysus, another rant! Can’t be good.
Back later, in the meantime a round is on the bar for anyone who wishes to partake.
PS for ‘Holic: Fruit, veggies, fish oils and herbal essences? WTF? So it looks like we will be taking that trip to The Holloway Road Health Bar on Sunday…. or will the desire for malty goodness prevail? I believe Wolfie will be packing his banana for you π
π
tabs
BTW, forgot to thank you for unlocking on old adolescent memory earlier. The Arsenal Lottery Ticket Girls. Hah! Enough for any tennage Gooner to fill his Speedos with pride π
Trev @ #343
Hot dogs don’t have faces either. Or Kebabs. Shhhh, the barman might be listening….
Well played GT, tabs, Trev, COR and TS for taking that one on cyberly when as tabs says (and i paraphwase of course) Le C*nts have well and truly pissed in that particular pond – r.s.p.c.a. – respect!
And COR the marvellous “handsbags” story you describe @330 is on a documentary somewhere – better informed gooners than me’ll know the name – where some of the participants outline there involvement in said off. It’s well worth a watch if you haven’t seen it already
UredS!
Aaah the Arsenal lottery ticket girls – those jeans – those jackets – ’twas bliss!
sorry – should be their, there – so there, it is
TS – All good points in your 345 (no, there isn’t a ‘but’), would have to agree with you wholeheartedly.
During the Swans game I commented something along the lines of, “My god, has the old Arsenal come back?” or words to that effect.
Correct me if I’m wrong but up until a few games ago we were playing some pretty tight stuff and then recently a lot of usually dependable players have become, well, a bit poo.
Definitely a whiff of low morale coupled with less effort than usual – I’m guessing the two often go hand in hand.
All you fine gents above have surely said all there is to, so I think it just remains for me to say: let’s just hope we pick it up against the red evils (see what I did there?), and even if we go down to another 8-2 defeat, you know what?
I still love Arsenal.
but who gives a fuk – and can i keep this going to 400??!!?
A handsbags – aw gawd – 400 easy!
GT @ 322,
Thanks for your kind words.
I would largely side with Tabs take on things @ 341. The point he makes especially in 2 – is just so so true. In 07/08 we played football from heaven. While I thought Gilberto’s legs had been fading for some time and could accept his departure, to allow Flamini & Diarra go simultaneously was a mistake of epic proportions. Wenger gambled on waiting for Song to step up in 2008, and by the time he did, it was all too late and the 08/09 season was over and we lost whatever impetus we had the previous season. It was a gamble we didn’t need to take because Diarra, at least, was tied to a contract. I would be of the same opinion, as you point out Tabs, that it was singularly Wenger’s worst decision in his management career at the club.
As for the captaincy, it was used as a form of Golden handshake the day Thierry was given it in my mind. Wonderful player yes, leader of men – No! Same for Cesc. And while I can’t quip about RVP’s captaincy, if the choice were mine – it would be Vermaelen. As much as RVP get all the plaudits for his scoring feats throughout this season, especially when so many others have failed to contribute, Vermaelen has been the primary reason our defense hasn’t been giving away stupid goals, which has been every bit as important to our revival and he hasn’t been shy in scoring his share either. His presence is just so underrated and never acknowledged enough IMO. Is it such a coincidence that in both games we lost against Swansea & Fulham, Vermaelen was missing? And Vermaelen has signed a contract to stay, at a time when the Club needed a vote of confidence in light of our poor start to the season. That’s a man of real substance in my eyes, when your own personal ambitions are secondary to what you want for the club and you decide to give something back and acknowledge how the club stood by you when you were injured. And there is absolutely no doubt in my mind, if he wanted to leave, he is the only player in a red shirt at the moment that would walk into any other club team in world football. RVP would not make a Barcelona first 11, in my humble opinion, but Thomas Vermaelen would.
On Dein, most people here know my views, which differ with many of the contributors here, in that I believe a Dein + Wenger partnership was better for the Club than Wenger being left on his own. Gazidis is a corporate man. Dein is a football man. I think Wenger would listen to Dein in making football decisions and I thought they were a formidable partnership.
As for Cole – if you have an axe to grind with the manager or hierarchy as to how your being treated – you refuse to sign a contract, you play the game and force your hand in renegotiation. You do not, organise a meeting behind the managers, the club and your teammates back with Jose Mourinho in a London Hotel. That is all you need to know about the type of people Cole and Mourinho are, let alone the dirty standards prevalent in the football industry. Its no surprise to me that such vitriol is poured his way even if I could never condone it.
One thing that comes out repeatedly in the analysis of all things Arsenal and Arsene is
“it was a gamble/huge gamble/risk/massive risk…..” etc ad nauseum
What sort of way is that to run a modern, self-sustaining model?
And we (Arsenal) or he (Arsene) is still at it – you need look no further than playing our only fit left back against the Greeks to confirm it.
I, like tabs, am a massive fan of Arsene so-called Wenger, but in other walks of life this stuff woukd be deemed reckless.
Joe, I am 100% with you on Vermaelen.
Captain material from the word go.
Joe @ 355: 100% concur on Vermaelen – 50% disagree on Cole. He may have been a bastard but he was our bastard – according to one U.S. President when asked to comment on the subject (0;
tabs@341: it took me a while, but finally I found something I could add to this discussion! (you lot have already said everything I had to say otherwise so anything I would have said would just have been redundant, not to mention superfluous and just re-iterating what has already been said before I said it again which would only have been a rehash of things already said. And it would also have been repetitive.)
And where do I disagree? On Diarra. I thought he was absolute pants, a headless chicken most of the time. I’ve seen him play for Real a few times too but he was crap there as well. No idea how he ever ended up there, to be honest. I also think that for Wenger to let a player under long-term contract go after less than six months at the club (something he has never come even close to doing before or since) then said player must have been a right prat. He’s persevered with some twats over the last few years (Bendtner, Gallas, Nasri) but Diarra was out the door first chance.
But we did miss a central defensive midfielder the following season, no doubt about that.
Joe@355: spot on about Vermaelen. We have missed him enormously the last few games. I am quite convinced we would have won at least one of them with him in the team.
And too add to what you don’t do: you don’t write a book and admit that you were so offended that you almost drove your car off the road at being offered a paltry Β£50k per week instead of the perfectly reasonable Β£55k you demanded. (remember that this was when Β£50k was a massive wage, quite few players in the league were on such money back then)
zico: please don’t talk about Santos playing in that game – it makes me go insane trying to understand why he was in the team π
TS and AL – The lottery ticket sellers – enough of a distraction to make even the most anodyne of games tolerable ! π
Joe @355 – Good stuff . Don’t agree with you re Dein , but then we’ve had that debate before π
Agree that we lack a Dein-like figure , just not Dein himself .
Agree completely with your observations re Vermaelen and the captaincy .
Dr Z @356 – Would argue that up to 2010 those risks were a largely inevitable part of the austere strategy we were following . Would agree however that post 2010 , that same risk-taking appears increasingly self-indulgent .
Perhaps it is addictive ? π
In other news I see a male contestant has been asked to leave the Brazilian version of Big Brother , after allegedly raping a female contestant who had fallen comatose after a house drinking spree .
Following his dismissal from the show , a Spokesman for the programme described the man’s seduction technique as “seriously inadequate” .
You couldn’t make it up !!
Hi Lars , we’ll have to agree to disagree on Diarra . Not on whether he was a twat , (he was) , but I really felt he was a player .
Although Flamini enjoyed a fine run of form in that season , in my opinion Diarra always looked the better long-term bet , and even at the time , I felt it was madness to continue to keep picking Flamini ahead of him , whilst Flamini was running his contract down .
Just my opinion . I haven’t really watched him to any great degree since he left Arsenal , so your view is probably better educated than mine .
Right off to watch Wolves vs Birmingham .
Life in the fast lane eh ! π
Just a small addition on TV- Kos and TV have started together 4 times (as CBs) and kept 4 clean sheets (this is excluding the Liverpool game when Kos came off after 6 minutes).
Lars – I too have to disagree with you on Diarra. I think he’s a fine player. I quite like him (as a player, not who he is, cause we already came to the conclusion that he’s a twat π ).
Tabs – I’ve seen the video of it – It seems as if she had no idea what’s going on.
tabs, I think this might be the first time we have really disagreed on something π
Quick note. Diarra went not because Arsene didn’t rate him, but because he was causing absolute fucking mayhem in the dressing room…
New post up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>