Industrial Relations
Sep 6th, 2012 by 'holic
Let’s consider you are running a small business.
A small business that relies on having a pool of contracted talent to stop them from moving to your competition.
You are the boss and have to make decisions about the worth of your employees to the business. You have to decide how much to pay them and when to reward them with increased salary in return for increased commitment in terms of time from them.
One of your staff, a super super quality performer when fit, has had a couple of lengthy absences in the last year. Not his fault of course. One of the heavy-handed employees of a rival firm in the locality side-swiped him into a crash barrier, then when he recovered a travelling turnip trader stamped on his leg, although he’s not that type of turnip trader, obviously.
Said employee is also entering the twilight zone before burnout can be expected to claim some of his effectiveness. He may or may not have four or five years left in him, if he can avoid a repeat of his couple of accidents in the last year. He has yet to prove he can do the business and isn’t likely to be earning for you again for a month or so. He still has the thick end of two years left on his current agreement with you.
You find out he has been networking, talking to old chums and questioning your performance with a trade journalist.
Do you…
a.) Wait to see if he returns at the level of performance of which he is capable, and avoids any other accidents, before offering him an attractive deal to see him through to his dotage?
b.) Let your competition know that he will be available at a price before his current deal expires. You are sick to death of some of your staff talking out of turn in the trade press.
c.) Haul his sorry arse into the office, let him know in no uncertain terms that if he has concerns about the prospects for the business he should discuss them in private with you and not jump on a soapbox. Remind him of his obligations and what is expected of him as long as you are paying him a small fortune to delight your customers, and tell him it really is up to him to restore their and your confidence in him by knuckling down and helping a talented pool of people to achieve the success he claims he craves.
You are the boss.
I’m torn between a mixture of a.) and c.) myself. Carrot and stick. Starting with a sodding great stick, obviously.
315 Responses to “Industrial Relations”
First
Not that type of turnip trader, obviously. ๐
haha superb bloggery
CL Spot?
Thursday Night Tott Spt
Great hypothetical scenario by the way, ‘holic. ๐
But I get a feeling that your non-selection of answer b does not mean you don’t agree with the second of its two sentences, “You are sick to death of some of your staff talking out of turn in the trade press.”
C
As I said in the last drinks, super quality will only stay
a) we win stuff
b) we offer salaries that teams more successful than us cannot offer
Arsenal are doing neither at the time being.
We need
a) luck
b) Chelsea or City like spending for 1 or 2 season (not ideal – but thats the only way a team that has not won anything for ages start to become competitive again)
Even if we were not winnig the PL, but had kept winning FA cup or CC regularly , we may not be in this situation.
‘holic
My feelings about Sagna’s interview are reposted below from the last drinks, and if I were manager I would base my treatment of Sagna accordingly, but your combination of answers a and c seems the fairest thing since his quotes seemed reasonable enough when I read them.
I also donโt think Sagna said anything that the rest of us havenโt said recently either, and the only way the doubts can be overcome is by focusing on the future and with positive results on the pitch. For Sagna to have been out injured during these last few months of course makes him not feel fully part of the changes that have gone on in the meantime but once heโs back in the team that can all be remedied.
Problem with a) – if you wait for a while and he DOES return to his previous level of performance , you have lost your opportunity to tie him down for long term (coz by then others will offer him much better terms)
Problem with c)- you have alienated the employee anyways.
No win situation for the employer Im afraid.
I go for option (d): Call the company lawyer; ask whether the employees are explicitly bound by their contracts not to shoot off their mouths in the trade press. Assuming he confirms this, call a meeting with the staff to remind them that there may be consequences should they breach this, or any other, clause of their contract.
In case of further breach, I go with option (c).
I think option (a) is a non-starter; if people behave in a way you dislike and you don’t at least ask them not to, you shouldn’t complain when they continue to act that way. Option (b) is a non-option. In any case all our employees are always available provided we receive appropriate compensation and our competition know that we’ve invested heavily in new plant recently and believe that we are sufficiently cash-strapped to have depressed ideas of “appropriate”.
Another factor is that some of our customers aren’t happy that we have only achieved five-star ratings for service in each of the past fifteen years and have not won a coveted ‘Academy of Greengrocery and Allied Trades’ award for seven years.
Yet another factor is that many of the customers of our rivals like nothing better than reading press reports of disharmony in our business, and journalists, whose job after all is to sell paper like nothing better than to concoct such reports by selectively quoting our employees. (Disclaimer: I haven’t read the relevant reports myself, but I did read the sensational article about our chairman a day or two ago by a spectacularly biased reporter.)
What is it people say about arguing by analogy?
Here’s hoping that the specialist blueberry sellers across town lose in the final so I can take up that CL spot.
The devils in the Meeja make work for fans in the Interlull.
COYG ICDDR
Oh dear, sorry. Prof: Dave-like grammatical error in the above.
There’s a missing ‘s’ and comma in the last paragraph but three, which should have read:
“Yet another factor is that many of the customers of our rivals like nothing better than reading press reports of disharmony in our business, and journalists, whose job after all is to sell papers, like nothing better than to concoct such reports by selectively quoting our employees. (Disclaimer: I havenโt read the relevant reports myself, but I did read the sensational article about our chairman a day or two ago by a spectacularly biased reporter.)”
I hope that makes my tirade a little clearer.
COYG ICDDR
Oxon. Very clever, if completely outside the rules, to invent an answer d.
But what is this about greengrocers and blueberries?
Great answer Oxon but as an employer who has had a belly full of bleating non-achievers, however well the particular employee normally performs, I’m boing straight to option ‘c’.
This is in line with my new reputation as an intolerant “hire ’em and fire ’em ” employer who favours good spirited, loyal workers over a bunch of ingrates.
I’m boing = I’m going !!
a touch of a) with a large dose of c), indeed. if bac has queries, he has the time to take them to the boss, or the boss’s designated alternate now that the season is started. just because he gets asked the question doesn’t mean he has to answer.
heh, trev, i thought it was “i’m bong”, as in…local pick-yer-own.
Btw, if anyone missed the Arsene Wenger talk on languages via Snir’s link in the last set of drinks, it is excellent and well worth going back to.
Agreed Snir, fascinating man, and unique in football I’m sure.
Indeed scruz. And my question in return to Bacary would be –
“What did all those players win when they were playing for Arsenal and, following Sunday’s performance at Anfield, where exactly do we now look weaker ?”
Tough call. But I think people are finding the comments and moaning of the players a bit old. I think the older group of players who led us to the trophy of ” Arsenal has not won anything in 7 years ” should move on. If they want to make comments about how the team is run than they can run somewhere else. Sagna is a very good right back. His goal and attitude after he scored against the lily whites probably turned our season last year. But these guys need to lead by example, not by voice.
If you are not happy with something then speak in private. I know the journos are prompting them, but they are grown men who can answer for themselves and really should consider their answers.
My answer is D)
Send his ass to the Quackery. My wife Ivana was there yesterday and I am certain she will never stray again, in body or mind.
Trev, the article on language with Arsene was very interesting.
Thanks for sharing Snir
norcal, i am surprised she made it back in one piece. wolfie has a reputation of keeping trophies.
I haven’t read or heard what Sagna was supposed to have said, but my first course of action would be to check the context, accuracy and quality of translation of any comments. There is a deal of mischief making out there at the moment as TaBS and Lady Nina (sorry, PHW and LN) found out to his cost last week in his contact with that paragon of accuracy and ethical content The Bog Standard.
Depending on the degree to which my findings raised my pulse rate, I’d then take action. Being that its Sagna weโre talking about, my inclination would be toward a) plus some wise counseling.
But there’s a bigger issue here. Our employees are human beings and human beings are wanting animals. It isn’t surprising that the very best want the very best financial deals that are โout thereโ. โFGS Hairweave is on 250k per week and I scored more goal than him last year so Iโm worth that tooโ syndrome.
Iโm OK with PHW saying that in some respects Aresenal canโt hope to compete with Shitty (Mansour) or Chel$ki (Abramovich). That is both an accurate and a reasonable position to express. So, we shouldnโt expect to see the likes of Torres arrive at The Ems for 50M, Ronaldo for 90M, nor Neymar for 100M.
Arsenalโs counter to this profligacy needs to continue to be talent spotting and value buying – of the Santi, Podolski, Giroud variety; the Eisfeld, Gnabry, Fabregas, and Miquel variety or even the Sagna variety (6M versus Chelskiโs 18M for Bisingwa and Liverpools 20M for Johnston).
In this regard, with Arsene at the helm, Arsenal can lead by example and be the envy of fans of every persuasion across the country and around the world.
The area that MUST be addressed is salary. Arsenal must recognize that Wilshere, The Ox and Ramsey (Yes, doubters) are the pick of their generation. A plan needs to be set in place now to ensure that they and their like are better paid than their peers anywhere on the planet.
That will mean that money set aside for transfers will need to be diverted. It will mean that the BBB do their thing regarding seat prices. It will mean that the retard commercial department raises its game. It will mean that lesser lights, with lower potential earn less on shorter contracts.
Retention needs to become THE priority. We have some superb talent. Modest acquistions a la Poldi can be made to strengthen the base, but the young superstars need to grow old on a full career at Arsenal. Wilshere on 250k per week? That is not a question, it is a must (at the right moment). The same goes for the others.
Set that as the target, Arsenal and find a way to make it happen. Wilshere or Ox or Ramsey or Eisfeld in Manure or Barca, strips five years from now, is NOT an option.
Thatโs aโ fur noo.
Modern footballers aren’t employees, they are sub-contracted businesses. They have an entourage to feed, and that doesn’t even include their agent (and his employees). Stories in newspapers are just PR exercises, whether planted by agent or player.
I stopped reading player interviews years ago, when they stopped talking vaguely amusing nonsense (Alan Shearer and his creosote obsession was a particular highlight) and started opining on tactics, their team-mates, the club’s commercial strategy, and their chances of an internationall call-up (let’s export the brand!).
Sagna SARL (not EURL) is just putting out feelers pre-contract renewal. C’est n’est pas la guerre.
“C” first, then a partial “A” to see if he returns to form, then possibly the second half of “A” (contract) or “B”….out the door. The healthier he is the better for us, whether it’s a healthy transfer fee or he rounds into form and we put him back to work….imagine that.
His remarks are usually how the transfer talk starts churning. One of these days we just have to let one of these guys stew on the bench or in the reserves regardless of the contract. Draw a line in the sand for crying out loud or these players will continue to manipulate us.
Did I mention we have three clean sheets without him?, oh.
“Holic, the Chicago Bears start-up again this Sunday…..
I would sack the translator.
Very interesting article to me NorCal, as I used to coach skiing and tennis and have read quite a lot on the use of language in coaching.
Eastern “concept” languages are quite different to “linear” Western languages.
The former are capable of suggesting many elements of technique, by degrees, in a single inclusive expression, whereas the latter tend to treat each element as a separate sequential event.
That has a very strong effect on how complex techniques are understood and performed. It will never happen, but I’d love to hear AW’s views on the comparison, with his knowledge of Japanese and so many Western languages.
He is an amazing man who has transformed the top level of the game in this country.
Firstly through his fitness regimes – ironically in some ways for Arsenal – prolonging the careers of many players by several years.
Second, technically, as he has developed teams based on athleticism, power, pace and technique.
Third, physically. As the technical requirements of his teams have changed, so have the physical attributes of his players, from the Vieiras and Campbells and the power of the Invincibles to the Fabregases, Hlebs and Cazorlas of the latter day Wengerball sides.
Without Wenger, there would be few, if any, slightly built, short midfielders with a career in the Premier League.
It is disgusting, to return to an old theme, that the best that most British journalists can do, is to snipe and poke fun at such a brilliant manager who has been the inspiration for almost everything that is good in the Premier League.
all Sagna is saying is he has seen better players than him sold and he is no different. he might also face the exit door. It is clear Wenger wants a total change in the team, with Bould around I think defensive qualities are given more priorities than ever, Walcott is a victim of that, he is dropped to the bench so far because he lacks any defensive decipline. I like the direction the team is going, no more going gun ho and leaving the back door open. For the first time in a while the team look more balanced.
Wenger must’ve been delighted that Barcelona wanted Song, there was no resistance from him, he sold him at the first attempt. I think Bould has got a lot to do with the changes that are happening, it also means Wenger is listening to others opinions.
Good stuff BtM, but I would still like a little ‘c’.
PHW and Lady N mischief making is actually me, btw, inspired originally by Tabs’ BTA though. ๐
@ holic
a) and c) would be my choice too. This is all about his new contract, and it is a bit disappointing that he’s playing the game like this. I’m all for getting tough nowadays, but Bac has been an outstanding performer and and conducted himself (until now?) in exemplary fashion. I’d love him to see out his career with us.
@ Sajit
Not sure even trophies would do it – Dortmund lose players every year. We’ve just nicked Montpellier’s top striker.
@ BtM
I can understand your point about making sure our best are rewarded on a par with their Man City counterparts but there are two problems that I see. Whatever we pay, Man City could double. So the problem wouldn’t go away just by us raising our top wages.
The second problem is that if you pay the stars ยฃ250,000 a week (or whatever the superstar salary is in few years’ time), wouldn’t we then have to pay the next rung down – the Arteta or Koscielny equivalents – ยฃ200,000 a week? My suspicion is that that would be a recipe for increasing the average wage.
Just my thoughts.
Wenger’s coat – agreed, but I do think Wolfie is a lot to do with the players not wanting to leave the back door open. ๐
Interesting comment on Boulds influence.
But come mow. Sagna is one of the best full backs in the world at defending. Hes lightning fast. His crossing is not great but hes a solid as they come (i actually have his shirt from a few seasons ago). He surely cannot be sweating. Jenks has put in a few decent shitfts but hes no Sagna. And despite the fauxhawk up do, few if ANY players in the league can compete with sagna’s cut.
Ive not seen the full pub of have any imfo on the trans quality.
The timing of it all is just so krazy!
Scruz,
Never said she was in one piece.
And as for Wolfie, I think she brought back a little souvenir from her travels.
Trev,
I agree. That little bit that he was discussing in the video about sentence structure in Japanese vs English totally intrigued me. I barely speak one language, but the interrelation of language and culture has always interested me. I think AW has more to give to his players than they realize, but most of them are too egotistical to realize.
Ah well. Their loss I suppose.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2196966/Patrick-Collins-Big-spending-elite-heed-Wengers-demand-sanity.html
Le Boss is finally getting his message across..
Homer you are an effective Sagna advocate and I agree his hair is certainly worth a raise. But, are you his agent? ๐
Good comments, Fun.
250k is already 11M per year, per player and, even for the Milk Shake of Abbly Dabbly that’s a big glass of milk to swallow against the backcloth of a trading loss of 400M per annum.
I think that City will 1) pay tops for transfers (I argue we should not compete there) and 2) will be at the leading edge of salaries but won’t go mad (they too have had problems dumping the flops, Ade, Bridge etc because of their present salary policy). so, SELECTIVELY< we should compete there.
On your second point, my thinking is that the majority of players are realistic about their pedigree. Arteta took a pay cut to come, Koscielny has expressed happiness about his new deal. Citeh or Barca or Manure wouldn't recruit either so, for them, Arsenal at current salary is their "dream state".
Interestingly Walcott is an exception to the rule of being realistic about pedigree. He thinks he's worth 100k per week. Arsene doesn't. I suspect that if anyone else thought he was, he would have gone in the window.
So, hypothetically, had AW agreed to pay RvPrick, 250k (I do not think he should have), while Theo would have said "me too or I go", AW would have said "go" and his salary expectation at, say, Liverpool, would not have exceeded that on offer at Arsenal.
Like any market, there is a broad range of price versus performance and salary versus performance. At some points in the continuum, a relatively few very gifted players command almost unbelievable salaries because they are judged to be performance differentiators who can influence the outcome of a competition. Messi is the classical case. What is his salary value to Barca?
To compete, and they can, Arsenal must find the stomach to reward the select few. Unlike Citeh and Chel4ki, AW does not have infinite resource so something has to give. Our cash flow will continue to improve as the commercial dullards raise their game. My case is that this new revenue should be used to reward our stars, not buy fading stars soon to burn out in the style of Manure.
OK, enough. Off to watch Barack.
Hi everybody,
I know most of you have a bit of a problem with finding streams.
Firstrow just came out with a desktop app, which means all you have to do is to open the program and find the stream.
I’m loving it!
Good luck!
http://download.firstrowsportapp.com/product_download_tv.php
One small chink in your otherwise fine argument BtM: Retention has been the [failed] strategy of the club for the past several years – that’s why we ended up signing average players – as it turned out – to long-term, expensive contracts. I believe that the club would be better served by adopting a type of sporting meritocracy where rewards are consummate with achievement. In this respect I would avoid granting too much wages to Jack et. al. before they have proven themselves by winning trophies with the club [yes I would make the players feel responsible for winning or losing]…. pay them the earth when they win, pay them fuck-all when they don’t !
wrt to Sagna I agree that we should not over react because his remarks are pretty innocuous and does not at show disrespect for the Boss or the club [unlike a certain Dutch bloke] … I think that he was asked his opinion on the departures of RvP & Song and he gave his honest response. End of !
Holic, I had to be careful first of all not to lump Bac with the likes of RVP and Song, while considering your options. A clean slate if you will. I feel I owe him that. In his own words, Bac “I did follow the Euros and the transfer window and there are somethings I didn’t quite understand”. He, in my opinion, should have kept mum on that last part. But it isn’t what he SAID, that has me concerned. His ACTIONS, going elsewhere for his rehab, raise alarm bells in me. A matter of trust? So in answer to your question, ‘C’. But my own version of this. Tea, scones and a heart to heart talk. And Holic, kudos for making us really feel included, on this one.
Lots of players go elsewhere for treatment.
Diaby, Sagna, van Persie, etc.
Hi GT,
I agree that the current salary strategy is flawed. But I think that is because it has been oriented too closely toward meritocracy. I do agree that a healthy measure of “pay for performance” should feature in richer salaries for the stars and for the rest of the excellent players. That would extend to penalties for failing to make even one appearance in “x” games (Almunia, Squillacci, Arshavin).
You may not agree, but even in adversity, Arsenal (by most standards) has been very successful, maintaing position in the top quintile of success in the global game. The players have been rewarded very equitably for this degree of success.
I would like to see a less equitable share of the spoils, weighted toward those who really move the needle. I agree with you that the dead wood doesn’t move the needle to the extent that it should do for the reward it receives.
I’m not taking your “pay them fuck-all” comment absolutely literally, but like it or not, a lower reward than current would mean only two things:
1. Even lesser achievement – the better players wouldn’t have come in the first place nor would they or others have stayed.
2. The closer to fuck-all you get, the likelier relegation (for the first time in our proud history) becomes.
I do agree that retention has been one goal, but you have to consider:
3. The context – principally the funding of the finest new stadium in Europe
4. The emergence of stupidity (Mansour, Abramovich and their egos).
Both of these have skewed the situation in England. The peculiarity of TV funding in Spain has enabled RM, Barca to indulge their squads disproportionately to other Spanish teams too.
Let’s stick to England for this discussion. Shitty and Chelski have unlimited resources as things stand. Arsenal does not. I have convinced myself that Arsenal can be the best in Europe despite this.
My recipe, rightly or wrongly is based upon NOT retaining EVERYONE, but on retaining that select few who would walk, tomorrow, into the first team pool of Europe top six. To achieve this end, matching the salaries paid to the world’s elite is an absolute. Pay them fuck-all because they didn’t win anything and you will end up with certainty.
The certainty that none of those we crave to keep will be at Arsenal in 12 months :-). Like RvPrick, they will be lured by FGS Hairweave’s riches and will depart from what will be, by then, a ship sinking faster than Red October.
Snir @ 40, Hey, I thought that might be the case…and I feel quite troubled by that. One thing to seek out the best surgeons in the world for your injury.Quite another, to shun your own club’s rehab facilities (Arsenal is state of the art). The players miss out on the ‘we’re all in this together’ feeling by opting to go elsewhere.
Finally caught up on the links offered in the last set of drinks. Some entertaining, like 8ball’s (Juve + Bendy = trouble). Made me laugh. NBN, your contribution, about the Nigerians playing, absolutely fascinating bit of history there. Snir, the video of Arsene, discussing language, was so enlightening. All little treasures for us at the bar. Generosity comes in many forms, so it is my turn to say “Hey, thanks holics, you’ve made my day”.
Cheers ABB. It is quite entertaining to read all these drinks and links. A little bit for everyone is right. And sure beats any of the politics on TV.
Hi NorCal, So agree! Cheers.
B8 – I wish!
Id sure as hell advise him better.
Sagna situation is a bit ‘meh’ at the moment
Most footballers say ‘stupid’ things, most footballers want to ‘win’ things without actually taking responsibility when they lose and most footballers want more money. In fact most footballers are cunts
I’m very optimistic about corporal Jenks, even if Sagna were to come back from his injury it’s a tough choice to make on current form
Footballers on the whole need to shut up I say.
Most are so media-trained that nothing they say is interesting and the rest are so stupid their height of elaboration is on the level of “The thing I like best about football is playing football.”
Anyway, to the point under discussion, our salaries make sense in comparison to wages paid by clubs that aren’t oil-rich but attempting to keep everyone in vaguely the same salary bracket ends up with either;
a) players who realize this is as good as it gets for them, staying and seeing out their contracts
b) players who know there are clubs who can pay them more, leaving while making silly excuses.
When you consider the contracts we give out to players over 30 as well, around that age, it’s even more likely they leave around that age I think.
You can change the wage structure and pay your best players all you can afford and they will still move if another club can double their wages. Some players are never satisfied and the more money they get the more they want.
A good wage together with hefty incentives/bonuses paid for goals scored, assists, awards received, etc could be a way to ensure the cream of the crop get some more cream. But I think the average footballer would rather have money in hand assured without having to work to receive it in the form of bonuses these days…
Most of our players are playing among the best in the world and (rightly or wrongly) consider them their equals, so if we had to reward them what they are worth we will need a hell of a lot more money to do so. Until we are able to so I predict the same constant movement in and out of the club, regardless of whether we win trophies or not.
I’m hoping that in the future we are able to adjust the wage structure a bit, but it should be within reason. Of course, if future lucrative commercial deals are struck then we can very well see an across the board increase in wages but who can know exactly how far we’ll go towards hitting wage levels comparable to high spending teams even if we do see an increase in our commerical income…
There was nobody drinking yesterday, how come there’s already 48 on a new blog? :O
Round for all.
Superbly put, ‘holic! I’m a mix of a) and c) too.
I think arsene should go all out to win the fa cup or the cc this year to break his duck,so the new crop get that winning mentality,and also the bond as a team of players to say we can do it here and not elsewhere.I wanted all the players to stay that jumped ship but as me da said who’s a football man what did that lot win for arsenal?where as the new crop just need a spark.happy Friday to all holics.
23 AtoE Modern footballers arenโt employees, they are sub-contracted businesses.
I have to say that rings very true…
Snir 40, I’m not reading too much into that.
It’s nothing new either, pretty sure the like of Vieira did similar and in fact, I’m pretty sure Tony Adams himself, if I recall was sent by Arsรจne/The Club to some guy in France. Loads of sportspeople/footballers go and see specialists all over the world, not directly linked to their club.
Yesterday I read a comment somewhere else that was saying a lot of things that absolutely weren’t said/implied by Diaby’s trainer (which I listened to in the original version). I can’t believe the amount of shit some people try to come up with just to diss the club.
Let’s not forget we have a new wonderful medical centre, and it is, indeed, new.
Also let’s not forget that RvP indeed went elsewhere for treatment at some point.
That horse placenta worked a treat, did it? Thought not…
Ollie – I wrote @40 as a response to abb’s concerns. I should have wrote not to read anything to it, because that was what I was trying to tell abb ๐
I meant to say that the fact that Sagna goes away for treatment means nothing, because a lot of players do ๐
Any van Persie didn’t get the horse placenta in the end. It was only talked about, but it didn’t go the distance. He was never treated by that doctor.
I’m a sub contractor ollie with my own business and if I’m not in work I don’t get paid,these footballers eh..
Sorry Snir, I was guessing it was a response to a post, but since I couldn’t track the initial one (maybe it was jus above, heh, but I’m lazy when there’s no number :D), I just bounced on a generic thought.
Didn’t know that vanCuntie didn’t actually try the placenta, mind.
Heh, garsguns. Yeah, I suppose every possible analogy with footballers is bollocks after all.
I was actually thinking that last night: not only am I/most people not on limited time contracts, our work is also not in a public domain (sadly?) so no competitor goes looking for my skills and offering me more money for them :(.
Cheers.
Is there anything worth getting out from under this table for?
Nah? Thought not.
PS – Footballers should just shut the fuck up.
I’ll have a carrot and a stick please barman.
Heavy on the stick…..
For anyone interested: http://sportwords.blogspot.in/2012/09/super-premier-league.html
Zico…is that the Scottish version of a Pimms…a pint of heavy with a carrott. Surprised Wolfie isn’t offering his services to you. ๐
@BTM22, there is +++wisdom in your thinking….but even if wilshere at some point in his career will deserve 250 a week, he wont ask to be that worth inorder to play for arsenal, his motivation lies in deep love for arsenal, hell he cried like a baby when arsenal lost the carling cup to birmingham
Heh @ Ups
The answer is – if you value your employee, you at least offer him a two year extension, because loyalty goes both ways and he’s been one of your better employees through difficult times.
Also, if the young employee pushing for his place turns out to be better than the current employee, you have a decent back up. If the current employee doesn’t want to be backup, you have protected yourself from giving him away for nothing and can recoup some of your investment.
We have nothing to gain by letting a contract run down in this case.
just found a full tin of corned beef
sans metal jacket
on the arm of my sofa
deep set of fingerprints one side and single huge bite mark t’other
i’m guessing by herself’s silence i gave quite the account of myself last night
Morning All,
In answer to your question ‘Holic, (A) & (C) definitely.
Starting with (C) in combination with a week on the naughty step and all toys confiscated.
Then return to (A) because he’s a great right back but will need to get back to fitness and earn his starting XI status again.
Personally, I have no major issue with what was allegedly said. I do have a bit of a problem with how and where that message was delivered. Silly boy.
Nonny – Indeed and loyalty goes both ways. Do you believe Sagna has acted in a loyal manner this week?
Lovely and/or amusing prose from AtoE, BtM, StoneyTrev & Oxon up there.
Drinks are on the bar as usual. The Swedish debt grows daily…
@ 64 can’t be arsed
ha ha ha ha ha!
@ BtM, Trev, Cannons of R
I think ultimately it’s down to the player’s personality. For some of them, being paid best, or being paid an amount comparable to the highest earners, will be a deciding factor. For others, enjoying their football, or loving the club, or being loyal to the manager will weigh more heavily. And characters change over time, as well.
I suspect there’s not one particular strategy which will forestall any problems or work in every case.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19499771
I call this bollocks.
When then I never tweet in French.
Still, I’m guessing that someone was bored and had to file an article.
Et tu, Ollie?
‘When’? wtf, I meant ‘But’
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8058767/AVB-s-Jargon-Lost-Him-Shot-At-Burnley-Job
heh
heh Dr Z ๐
Maybe I am being too forgiving, or maybe not appropriately cynical especially given the recent history of Arsenal players towards the end of their contracts making public statements, but I really don’t see that much of a problem with Sagna’s interview. From the club’s perspective it was not the most diplomatic of the interviews, but it didn’t appear contrived or manipulative as has been implied. He is quickly approaching the end of his top flight playing career and I am sure there is a degree of frustration built up in him about lack of medals, accentuated by his rather unusual — for he has been otherwise a very consistent and injury-free player — spate of injuries in the last season. He also said that he just wants to come back playing for Arsenal as soon as possible.
From a club’s perspective I am sure it would be nice not to have these interviews out in the world, but a carte blanche moratorium on all players’ interviews or handed over specifications about what or what cannot be said is just too draconian and simply makes the club look insecure.
I would not be surprised that even if Sagna returns from injury quickly, and then have a great season after that — as is expected — the contract talks may still stall over wages (especially given that he is soon going to be thirty and Arsenal may not willing to retain his services up until he is 34 or so for a large sum) and we end up selling him in the summer. And then buy Debuchy, or someone less known, as a replacement.
Had a couple of busy (but quite productive) days at work so a bit too few visits to the bar for my liking lately. Things have just calmed down, and in about an hour I’ll go home, pick up my already packed bag and then head off out of town and spend the weekend toghether with a few others working on drawing up some requirement specifications for the new Arsenal Sweden web site that we will hire someone to develop. Now that may sound like I am whining about having too much to do but quite the opposite, it helps pass the time in this otherwise seemingly interminable Interlull!
(BTW, isn’t it a bit funny how the summer seems to just fly by but the interlulls feel like ages despite being only two weeks?)
As for the topic of the post, I’d also say a sprinkling of (a) with a heavy dose of (c).
Ollie@52: that horse’s placenta was what I thought of as well. And as you and others also point out, players have always been pretty much free to use their own physios and whatever. RvP, for example, spent most of his considerable accumulated time out of the team over the years in Holland, he more or less never did his rehab training at the club.
Diaby gets through an interview without saying anything that can be twisted negatively. He even says some remarkably interesting things, e.g. shaking before the Fulham game in fear he might be injured again. That seems to go against the maxim that you can’t play with fear, but he didn’t mention anything about shaking before last week’s Liverpool game, and as I recall he didn’t have as memorable a performance against Fulham so there you go …
Just want to add to the list of those who should just “shut the fuck, up”: retired ex-Arsenal players.
Yes I’m looking at you, Nigel.
Ollie, interesting stuff there about AVB. I also particularly liked this bit:
The language and jargon of football gets worse by the day. Villas-Boas uses a lot of it. Would Burnley players have ever understood what he wanted if he’d told them to ‘solidificate’ or some of his other terms?
This I agree with entirely. What happened to referring to attackers as attackers? Now they, according to the latest fashion, must be called “nines” or “false nines” or something flashy that sounds very initiated and complicated. “Playing behind the main striker” has become “number 10”, but then why does nobody talk about number eight or five or six? To me it’s all a bunch of male bovine Number Twos…
Happy Friday holics. Ollie @ 67. Really identify with this spot on quote, from said piece. “In the philosophy of the internet, we are among peers, equal, without social distinction, whatever your age, gender, income or status in real life.” Anthony Besson. So relieved he made no mention of intellectual parity, or I’d be in a load of trouble!:)
Anyway, here is the link.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-i-have-revenge-to-take-over-time-i-lost-
It’s also interesting his use of the word Revenge. That could be a peculiarity of the translation, but appropriate images seem to be required in any case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTd0HAMA50U
Trev @ 26: If I may, this ‘eastern’ language and ‘western’ language classification implies a rather colonial/orientalist and antiquated worldview , though I am sure you may have not meant it. Much of Asia, including significant portions of Eastern Asia, uses a language from the broader Indo-European language group which is where many (but not all, Finnish-Hungarian-Estonian being exceptions among a few others) of the European languages belong to.
Japanese itself, of which Arsene speaks about in that wonderful interview, is actually genealogically not connected to Chinese (even though Japanese use the Kanji script to write) which belongs to a wider Sino-Tibetan language group. And then in China itself there are other languages spoken which belong to the Hmong-Mien group.
But I agree with you about how language shapes the collective conscious of a people and hence modalities of not only social behavior, but introspective though as well.
… I meant introspective ‘thought’ @ 79 …
abb @ 77 — Internet has made us all realize that the noble concepts on which much of our civilization is built — Freedom and Equality being the foremost — themselves have their seamy underbelly. ๐
We start our day being unsure of the world around us — despite so much information flooding in — and the uncertainty builds up to a crescendo to make us unsure of our own beings by the time we end the day.
“”Freedom just around the corner for you/But with truth so far off what good will it do.” ๐
Dr.z @ #75 Can The Merse queue-jump Nigel?
Lars 76, yes, it’s the bit that made me laugh too ๐
bt8, yeah, ‘revanche’ in this is the ‘get even’ sense, not vengeance if that’s what you wonder about.
Merson is a Chelski fan anyway, TS.
Nutty generally been OK before, I think, guess he’s just jumping on the meedja bandwagon (no idea what he said, mind, just guessing :P)
Once you join the meedja,….. that’s why Charlie George will never work for them.
I’ll always remember him saying in the Stadium Tour : ‘I hate the media, they’re all cunts’; (he may have said that last word in a very low tone…. :P)
@ Dr F
I spent a little time in Japan and learned some Japanese a while ago – I was told the Japanese language is most similar to Korean (or Korean group?), is that correct or am I misremembering?
Regarding languages and how the sentence construction affects people’s behaviour, I’ve always thought that “verb-at-the-end” construction, which also applies in German sometimes, forces the speaker to think through the utterance before speaking – allied to the specificity of the vocabulary (difficult to make puns in German) and the relatively (to English) complex grammar makes for greater clarity in expression and therefore clarity of thought. I am aware that this doesn’t just apply to German as Lars and Eandy could confirm, but that’s the one I studied.
@ Ollie and TS
Merson is a Chelski fan anyway, TS.
That’s the thing with most of the ex-Gunners who are pundits or commentators. They played for Arsenal, but they are not Gooners.
So communication is the theme today, whether it is AVB @ 70 or Diaby @ 78. That’s why Holic’s option ‘C’ should come first, a ‘clearing of the air’. Mutual respect and trust between both parties can only be forged through an open and frank dialogue. No need to bring the stick. As far as rehabbing elsewhere, being further distanced from your interaction between staff and teammates, can lead to brooding.
Lovely analogies…..
Definitely option a for me.
As he is a defender who is very good but not outstanding – his agent (despite his wet dreams) is not going to be inundated with crazy offers from the usual suspects.
We should be prepared to shell out big money for certain key positions – notably for top quality strikers but Bac as a full back doesn’t merit that.
If he doesn’t like it tough shit.. he’s replaceable.
@ West Upper
Bac is outstanding. And what’s more he’s consistently outstanding. Regardless of what the strategy the club chooses to pursue, that is a given.
Jamaican gooners. It turns out Jamaica v. USA is tonight and the return match, USA v. Jamaica is Sept. 11. Half pint bet, anyone, or would that be too Trev-like? ๐
Doctor Faustus @ 81, Hey, enjoyed that, mate.
Should have said: “Regardless of whether you feel he has done wrong or not, that is a given.”
Brain not working.
FG we will have to disagree on that one – if he offered more offensively I would change my opinion.
Now West Upper, then that could have worked if you had said he isn’t an outstanding full-back, but you used the word ‘defender’.
Pint for you on my pedantic tab ๐
Ollie… I owe you one….
TS @ 65 – I don’t think he has been particularly disloyal, from what I’ve seen. It’s a long way off being a SAGNA SLAMS BOARD kind of interview anyway. It’s not like he has come out and said anything against individuals at the club, or slammed us for not spending money, just that he doesn’t understand certain things.
I think there’s a tendency these days for fans to get a little too protective of the club and read dire motives into every interview that isn’t double-plus-good… There appears to be an almost knee jerk “disloyal bastard” response kicking in a lot of the time, even if a player says nothing and does nothing (Theo) or simply says “I haven’t been offered a contract yet”.
I’m not saying it’s the case with this article, or ‘holic, at all. Just a general trend that seems to have developed online. Maybe we’ve just become conditioned to treat footballers as bad people, unless they constantly pet us and give us reassuring noises?
Doctor Faustus –
No offence meant by my post, at all. While I would admit to becoming a little more antiquated than I would like, I am certainly no colonialist/orientalist.
The ‘problem’ is clearly that I wasn’t specific enough in saying “eastern”, but my knowledge of the subject is vastly inferior to your own.
It was merely a sport related comment following AW’s video, about some articles I read, by an American ski coach who had spent a number of years working in Japan.
She drew the “western – eastern” distinction, and I found it interesting and helpful with the use of language in sports instruction.
I find your own description of oriental languages also very informative, and my own omissions were never intended to offend.
FunG – German puns ? Now you’re talking ! ๐
Re: Nonny @96. Which footballers constantly pet you, if I may ask?
Room for an assist?
Bang…..
First of the season.. thanks Ollie that’s 2 I owe you..
Cheers, West Upper. Clinical!
West Upper. Well in and equally as pithy in your goalscoring technique as Lonestar’s Ping. ๐
(Now considering the use of Ng for its pithiness @200.)
The girl doing a survey for Eurostar who was supposed to call me back in about an hour about 24 hours ago still hasn’t called back.
Trev @ 97 — None taken. I knew you didn’t mean it to be offensive.
Also I didn’t mean to portray any over-sensitivity to this language classification issue (which is quite thorny in many aspects as politics/nationalism can influence academia), was simply highlighting that certain ways of grouping may appear so anachronistic that it can derail what would otherwise have been an excellent conversation. And as I said, I find your overall observation and comments about the usage of language in sports instruction highly relevant.
FG @ 85: I don’t read or speak Japanese, I have read a lot of Japanese literature but all in translation. My own language skill extends only up to two Northern Indian languages (Sanskrit-derived), English, French and some Sanskrit.
However I know a bit about Japan and Japanese culture — part personal reasons, part general interest — and the issue f where exactly Japanese language belongs to is apparently a complicated one. And you are right, one of the more eminent theories does identify Japanese-Korean genealogical kinship. However, the matter is far from settled, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_Japonic .
And as I am *not* a linguist by training, my knowledge is that of an amateur enthusiast.
Dr Johannes, in what language was that contract written ? ๐
Re: Ollie @104. Did she have a nice voice? Sounds like quite a letdown. ๐
http://www.francefootball.fr/#!/news/2012/09/07/165553_le-zenith-a-fini-fort.html
This type of ‘article’ that seems to ‘rate’ clubs on their spending is really sad….
The table is one thing, but the wording….
bt8: yes, she did, but I don’t think she was offering to help with my next trip (although it did sound like it was an enquiry about ‘people travelling with Eurostar during the next fortnight’; rather than past experience).
It was actually weird, because I think the first thing she asked was ‘parlez-vous Franรงaiz?’ Or was it ‘parlez-vous Anglaiz?’. Whichever way, I replied ‘yes’ and the next sentence was in English.
But I was in a training course so had to ask her to call back later.
Ollie @ 107 — the most universal of it all… words were superfluous … ๐
This is how we need to play to deal with our injury problems:
http://youtu.be/xIl45f6i1PU
Ned,
That video is hilarious. I’m afraid we would still find ways to get injured. Perhaps some of our players would have some weird plastic allergy.
Good thing RVPursey left because I am sure his head would not fit in one of those things.
More Imposters in this place than an Elvis Costello convention.
There is only one Dr F.
TS @ 82 – not today. ๐
Ollie @109. The table tells us at least one very interesting thing. Southampton, our next opponents, spent the 13th most money among European clubs and they spent more than either Barcelona or Real Madrid. I don’t know who Southampton bought or how the club can afford to spend such sums but they ought to be good players for that kind of money. Southampton spent the sixth most of the English clubs, the top five being more predictable including Arsenal in 5th place (hopefully our finish in the table this season will not match).
I thought Sagna was quite measured in what he said and frankly I agree with most of it. It’s difficult to know how disingenuous players are being when they give these interviews to sources in their own country. It did rather suggest to me the Song deal surprised the players in its suddenness.
The fact may be that if we still feel compelling need to balance the books that Sagna as a man nearing the end of his contract might be seen by Mr.Kroenke/ Gazidis as highly saleable. We sell at least two stars each year.Maybe he is scheduled for next year and this might give Arsenal a convenient excuse to do it.
You might gather from this I question the motives of our majority shareholder!
NBN – is that video by the same crew that made the ‘electric shock’ video ?
Thundertiny –
I don’t really understand our financial position either.
Swiss Ramble gives a huge amount of information which, I’m afraid, ultimately loses me.
I seem to read / hear from one source that we are now debt free, and from the next that the stadium loan is a 25 year bond that cannot be repaid early.
So what does it mean when folk say that Arsenal have been paying down the debt, if they are not allowed to.
Why are some saying we have to sell players every year to meet debt repayments, while others say that our obligations are easily met through our other income streams.
Idon’t personally think that either of this summer’s departees had anything to do with servicing debt requirements. But what do I know.
*fears he has started – restarted – a topic here that will only cause more confusion*
But hey, there’s only England to watch otherwise. ๐
Hey Ned, Hilarious! Dr Feelgood (hey, typed Feelgod the first time by mistake), I want another episode on the train please. Rant of your choice. And Rox to have a ‘voice’. ttg @ 116 Pretty sure AW has an open door policy for his players…if they have something on their mind, take it to Papa.
Ollie @ #84 & Fun G @ #86 – Yes, good point. So not much changes really? ๐
Evening nurse, how goes it?
Hi TS, fine and you? Was just going to tell the holics that Goonerholic has joined Pinterest! Check it out peeps, some fantastic pics await your viewing pleasure.
Trev, by all accounts we have not finished repaying the debt.
I also read somewhere that there’s a distinction between overall debt or something and stadium debt.
And that we would also stand to pay hefty penalties if we were to repay the remaining of the stadium debt early.
Where I saw that, I was also quite surprised to see that the debt related to the stadium is still quite big in fact.
Note: it’s not secret information, but I can’t be arsed checking it back and copying it !
N.B: there is France to watch over here, apparently Diaby starts.
*gasps*
There’s pics of the showers…left a comment that there were no curtains…shocking. But I think my 2bits got lost in cyber space. ๐
Coquelin sent off.
Ah, a change of name.
That feels good, heh.
Roxette to have a voice?
You’ll be telling me next she’s to be allowed out in daylight which of course has a precedent, but only with a bag over her head….. 8)
Good news about Coquelin getting sent off – one less potential injury to concern us ๐
heh zico
Ollie – I obviously know the difference between net and gross, but as far as Arsenal go, it always confuses me.
We have 258m in gross debt, and 98m in net debt.
That is our debt to the stadium and that is our ONLY debt.
So, if we have a net debt of 98m, do we need to pay that, or the 258m?
The net debt is gross debt – cash & short-term deposits.
What happens once we pay the 98m? We’re still obviously left with debt.
I’m confused.
And I’m referring to these numbers of course
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kot8QkgFmpI/T0yUGBgP7vI/AAAAAAAAFSw/WL0PAaSPfbs/s400/30%2BArsenal%2BDebt.jpg
Oh Dr Feelgood, how you succeed to make me smile…
By the way, I just saw the Belgian starting eleven, and they are some team… Very talented. Kind of like Portugal of 8 years ago who weren’t a powerhouse then, but had loads of talented players.
Courtois, Gillet, TV, Kompany, Vertonghen, Witsel, Dembele, Hazard, Mertens, Mirallas, Fellaini.
I’m watching Italy v Bulgaria. Can’t wait!
@132
Hah, just wait till they meet Scotland…..they’ll only score 5! ๐
Diaby scored!
Snir,
Belgium is very much like Portugal of the past in that they look really good on paper but have not put it together on the field. This may be their “golden generation”. Will they win things like Spain or just disappoint like Portugal?
Dr Feelgod,
Now I know why Ivana keeps saying she wants to Feelgod again!
Ivana also keeps stealing my phone!
I don’t think saying Portugal is disappointing is right.
They did reach the Final of Euro 2004 and the SF of this Euro.
In the last two tournaments they’ve been beaten by the eventual champion.
If you call a team that doesn’t win disappointing, then every tournament has 15/31 disappointing teams and 1 satisfying (insert any other adjective you want to for the tournament winners) team, which is of course not true.
Hah, I think the term, NorCal, is epic fail ๐
My cable operator is shit, the game is on TF1 and I’ve got shit reception that just stopped after 5 minutes.
From what I read, Diaby scored and was the best player in the first half.
Ollie, his goal is on YouTube.
abb, I can’t wait, I’m sure it will be on the news over here ๐
And when I say ‘I can’t wait’, I quite obviously mean ‘I can wait’.
Hey Z,
Yes it reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0IGvPzu7no&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Whoops
And Snir,
I think you can say they were a disappointment. I don’t think everyone that loses a tournament is a disappointment but I think if you ask the portuguese if they are disappointed that they didn’t win a major tournament with the talent they have/ had, I think they would say they are disappointed.
Not the epic fail that I just was.
Maybe just semantics.
Oh Ollie, what I said to Dr Feelgood, goes for you as well! Smiles galore here. Italy 2-1 helps too.
The Ox having a great game v Moldova. Laid Defoe’s goal on a plate for him and makes Milner on opposite wing seem like a league 2 player*
3-0 England at HT.
*admits not a difficult task.
Cheers, abb. Who are they playing?
The Bulgarians, Ollie. Pretty open game. Must say though that Italy’s defense could use Steve Bould’s help.
Hi Uply, Italy game my only option right now but I’ve been reading the ticker tape at the bottom. Delighted OAC having a good one. Cheers.
Ah, cheers abb. I take it Berbatoss isn’t playing (I think I read something this week about that, but maybe I’m making it up)?
Don’t think he is Ollie…but Pirlo is (winks).
Feo on the bench…..sign things to come ?
Feo replaces The Ox. Good game by Alex.
Ollie, Apparently he (Berbatov) retired from International Football in 2010. Wow. Must get with the program….I knew I was a tad slow, but that is embarrassing! Uply @ 152, Think you’re onto to something there.
Darn, 2-2, Gigi off his line.
4-0 England scored by Milner…assist by Theo. Think only his second touch in 10 minutes…..Theo was the invisible man for a while.
That is not to imply Gigi is having a bad game…some sweet saves by him. Like the one he had just now.
Good for Theo, he needs the game time.
abb : he was playing for Man U then. That seems to be a possible cause for international retirement.
I don’t give CvC long.
England 5 – 0 Baines with a deflected free kick. Now there’s a player who would look the business as our no 3 at the HOF.
Ollie, CvC?
Cunt van Cuntie.
Game over….Moldova 0 – 5 England. Needless to say Moldova about the level of Blackburn Rovers on a bad day. The Ox look purposeful, beating his man at ease…they needed to double up to stop him and physically imposing for such a young man. This boy will go far.
On the other hand, Theo looked bereft of confidence and played his “bad” game..miscontrol & poor decision making. His assist came after a previous mis-control in the build up. ยฃ100000 per week player – no way Jose. Still “luv” him though.
Ok then…googled it and all (do I get cred for trying). 2-2 final. Italy was awful, cept the ‘brave’ one, of course.
Snir @ #129
A few points that may or may not help.
It may suit the club to keep some of the debt going e.g. the sale of an asset such as a property or PHW’s golden throne in the executive loo, etc., etc.
The sale of assets or a surplus of income of any kind could be used to reduce the clubs debts but if the interest rate you are paying on your borrowings is lower than the rate of appreciation of your assets then why would you want to sell the asset to repay the debt especially if it is manageable w.r.t. the club’s income?
You also have to factor in things like liquidity requirements which will also be a moving number month-by-month but you would imagine the need for cash would peak in the two TWs and dip outside of those periods depending on the terms of deals struck.
No doubt the AFC board are obliged to review all of this whenever they meet and do what’s best for the club at that particular point in time as well as putting policies in place for the periods between meetings. The financial team will then take of the day-to-day checks and balances. In this regard, I’m confident the club is in safe hands.
I’m sure a financially trained member of our bar could give you a better explanation but that’s my attempt.
Abb CvC is copyright Ollie, so not yet available on google ๐
“Dr.Feelgod”, eh abb?
He drinks amongst us.
Ollie, the stadium is presumably part asset and part liability i.e. the land (and the building itself???) will have an (appreciating) value but there will be interest to repay on the money borrowed to build it?
Not my copyright, Ups. Either bathgooner or Hazza, I’d say.
Hey Fellas, Ollie really had me going. Doesn’t take much!
Thanks for the correction Ollie…don’t want any copyright infringement writs lodged do we. ๐
Suggest you re-phrase that abb ๐
Now TS, I was only reporting vaguely on stuff I know.
I have zero idea about these things. I am the liability.
Snir, Ollie: Let me see if I can help [having spent copious amounts of time pouring over Swiss Ramblers charts] …
We have an outstanding debt of Pounds 258 M – mainly stadium construction costs that’s offset by our matchday revenue [that’s what IG refers to as good debt as it amounts to a mortgage that we can easily cover. When we hear references to the club being debt-free that refers to the fact that we have paid up all other related debts incurred building the other various developments.. So the figures Snir points to simply means that we have an outstanding debt of 258M but we also have 160M in cash stashed away, so if tomorrow the world would end and God wants his money back, we would simply give him the cash and owe him the balance..
I hope that this helps ๐
Have to say ..nice and composed finish from Abou, I really hope he is going to replicate his performance vs Liverpool in as many matches this season as possible.
stuff I read/saw, not know
GT – but isn’t net debt what we’re supposed to pay?
Snir: No…net debt means: Gross debt [258M] minus cash in hand/bank [160M] equals net debt [98M]…
The 258M is fixed because we were clever enough to exchange all our bank debts to a fixed rate bond. The interest is already calculated in that figue and so that is why we have agreed to pay it over 20-years at a fixed amount each year…
Ollie, you are definitiely an asset. Cheers! ๐
TS, Totally agree…there’s only one Ollie, and we’ve got him.
GT knows. Very helpful.
Snir, so now you know the facts. Were you going to make a point young man? ๐
There are two Ollie’s but only one I would call a friend.
GT – So, do you think that we really do need to have 15+ million pounds in the transfer windows in order to pay the debt, or is it paid from the matchday revenue et al?
Thanks for the explanations, GT/Ollie/TS
@ 183 Snir
That is something I do know – we pay the “mortgage” out of matchday revenue. Transfer money is recycled into the transfer pot.
At least I think I know that.
CvC = the greedy badger
Snir: Let me answer it this way: It is Arsene and the board’s policy that the club will be profitable and that they will not under any circumstance willingly go into debt. There’s a lot of crap being written about how the club goes about its business. Here’s a quick list to explain some of the most mis-understood actions:
1: The stadium debts are “ring-fenced” which simply means we have protected the repayments from affecting our operating costs. Repayment of the bond comes from the match-day revenues.
2: We have set aside special funds [savings if you like] to offset costs like salaries & other running costs in the case we failed to qualify for the CL for a couple of seasons [we simply do not spend money we have not collected and put away in our bank account] .. another of these special fund is for player acquisition and retention – in other words to buy new players and to increase the wages of the ones we have already have on staff..
3: The above is the main bone of contention among certain supporters and the gutter press as I see. We definitely have the money that we could bid higher for certain players. The problem is that Le Boss attaches his own valuation on every single player in the world including our own. He will not be dictated to when it comes to the amount he will be willing to spend on a player..
4: Do we need to sell in order to buy? Yes & No is the simple answer. We have decided that we will run a profitable enterprise and so our first strategy is to post a profit each year. We don’t have to sell all our best players but if they want to go then we will sell as long as the price meets our valuation. Wenger is loathe to dip into his savings also. He seems to expect some sort of financial cataclysm to hit Europe at some point and so he has been saving his spare cash [him being partly German] to meet / offset future hardships ..
I think I will stop here.. ๐
So all our players were on a winning team, except for poor Aaron.
Hey GoonerTerry –
Great work. Even I can understand that. Thanks a million. That’s gross thanks, of course. Net thanks will be…… Oh, never mind ……. ๐
Yes GT. Nice summation of club Debt and policy. I also agree that AW views himself as the A Merkle of football. Showing prudence and shrewdness when others are not. It will be interesting to see when the commercial income increases significantly which pot that goes into.
The Swiss rambler article on uefa FFP is also a good read in these lulls. But I fear Uefa will do very little to any of the mega rich. At most they may impose a fine, but most of the mega rich will just view that as the price of competing. Also, I think they will still stockpile in the next year or so and then make an “effort” to make things better and Uefa will say that’s good enough.
So, what do we have here?
In a darkened corner, sits the texan, still planning the long-contemplated destruction of the Catalonians, but otherwise, not saying much, just quietly sipping his beer and eyeing suspiciously the bogus Professor, Dave.
At the row of bar stools running alongside the bar, sits a coterie of medical types, each and every one of them a malpractice suit waiting to happen. ย They give each other shots, (none ordered from the bar), and vent to anyone within earshot at the ineptitude of “the help”. ย One of them, a newly christened stone-mason, ย basks in his new found fame and orders a round for the bar, all on Lars’ tab.ย
A newbie, innocently enquires :ย
“What’s this all about, this, ย “put it on Lars’ tab?”.
An old timer explains – “You dont know “a LARS” ?ย
It stands for : ย “Leave A Receipt, Swedish” – its the first thing you learn, if you’re smart.”
An earnest young man, is sitting in company, yet somehow alone. ย He scours the internet, and plans for January, when he will feast on a banquet of conjecture and rumour. ย He is part Nostradamus, part Sabra. And he never sleeps. ย He has school in the morning, but what could he possibly learn that he never first heard from Twitter?ย
There’s a man from (not in) Bath. ย Counts the malts in the top shelf and vows to stay until he has sampled each and every one. ย Near the door, on the periphery (or out wide, you might say), there’s a guy being the best he can be ย – call him Steve, that’s him down to a T. ย
By the jukebox sit the Jamaicans. ย They sip Red Stripe, (whether Southampton are in town or not), and reminisce about Herb. ย Collectively they call themselves, Rest yer far-eyes, or something…..in fact, they’ll answer to anything (but Terry).ย
Now what’s this odd looking bunch? It’s a smattering of Yanks – loud and proud. ย One plays pool, his eye on the 8 ball, (or is it “once ate an eye ball”?), one talks of taking a cruise with the Saints. ย (Amidst them, a Scotsman from Virginia – how did that happen?) ย A Florid nurse fusses over them in a maternal fashion,ย and they are seldom far from their best behaviour.
Way out in left field, A guy from Japan asks some rhetorical questions. ย
Now here’s them Yooripeons. One guy, day-tripping from France, offers some Cognac – his red haired companion from Belgium (or France) ย spells trouble. ย And that Danish guy – well no one can help him, he’s serially depressed. ย The Holloway boy from Holland too seems a bit flat – could be the tomato juice.
And of course, there is the rowdy rapscallions, The Feelgood Foundation:ย
A son takes a bow, in front of the Sweeper who arrives late-tackling his Orange Juice. The brains of the outfit, tells a True Story to anyone who’ll listen (and some who won’t). That guy with the nasty rash on his leg, will tell a tale of his own. And…..he’s from Leicester. Fact. The top spokesman for this motley crew is a snowbird, a spin-doctor supreme. ย Feelgood is missing – could be he’s in India.
Where the climate’s less Harsha.ย
And what of the Man himself, is he wilting in Wiltshire? ย No he’s clearly in theatre, having holed himself 36 times. ย
Whoever’s last to leave, ย turn out the lights. ย And give Cusop a kick.
Smashing Z. I pictured them all. A very motley bunch if ever there was but as the new stone mason carved ” virtual bar, real friends”.
This ” place” has it all.
Fresh round on LARS. And one from me too.
Dr Zee: Clearly you took a slurp of the good weed before you sat down at the keyboard – great stuff..
Jar Rest-fer-your-eyes-I … heh ๐
Oh and “cheers” to you Dr Trev.. can we expect a response to Dr Zee any time soon?
๐
bows to zico, esq. that was very zicoesque.
i get to cruise to my local about now and have a couple pints with the saintiest saint of all, the half-eyetalian, half-engerlish lass who our son calls “mother”…
may the gods of the interlull (also on the cruise, since you ask) keep our lads safe from knocks, and bring CvC to his knees…do keep the window open, though, just in case a young breeze wafts in…
Toast to Dr. Z.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3gVzE2YxWw
Speaking of young breezes – where’s Hurricane?
scruz. Enjoy the pints, it sounds loverly.
2 ton give……
Goes for the Santi assist…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhEpeDFMM1o&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Went with a little vintage.
That pose would make an awesome statue.
GT – so if the mortgage is being paid by the matchday revenue which if I recall correctly exceeds 45m, then aren’t we left with 30m each year as our repayment from what I’ve read is 15m a year?
If that’s the case, then why did AW say that famous quote that we have to end the transfer window at a profit of 15m?
I don’t remember the exact quote, I can look for it, if you want, but I’m pretty sure you know what I’m talking about.
Here is the quote:
Wenger, who sold Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri for nearly ยฃ60m last summer, said: โYou should know that each season, it is imperative to show a profit of between fifteen and twenty million pounds. I would add that the purpose of a coach is to always buy at a price he sees fit.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Arsenal-boss-Arsene-Wenger-I-like-Eden-Hazard-but-I-need-to-make-a-20m-profit-EVERY-season-article862355.html
Now you could say that he didn’t exactly refer to transfer profit, but it was after he was asked a question about transfers, so let’s assume, that’s what he means. ๐
Hello all! Hope you’re not as drunk as I am at the moment!
I just wanted to say that while Arsene is multilingual, he is not fluent in Japanese. During his time in Japan he used a translator to speak to the players at Nagoya Grampus and in his biography he admitted to just being able to speak basic greetings. He would have to be a superhuman to master Japanese language in the short space of time he spent in Japan!
Anyway, I thought you holics would like to see young Arsene say goodbye to the fans in Nagoya. ๆใใใ๏ผ๏ผ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkya0xtOVsQ
OK Snir: So you are talking about two distinct things – the mortgage commitments and the levels of profit the club has set itself. That quote was much mis-represented. What Wenger meant was that before all things else the first 15 – 20 million that the club makes must be set aside to repay the mortgage. As the club currently makes about 3.3M [60+ million annually] match-day revenue this is easily covered. But remember that after the mortgage we have wages and other operating costs that also have to be met. That’s where the commercial income comes in. It supplements the match-day revenue to cover the balance of the operating expenses.
Now here’s where the controversy resides IMO: Clearly the club has set a level of profitability that it aims for each year. One such way it seeks to achieve profitability is to break even or make a profit on player sales. As I said earlier it has a transfer fund [that does not even show up on the official accounts but by all accounts is sizeable] and all player trading is done through that fund. Shortfalls are met from this fund as well as surpluses are lodged to the fund. Here’s the thing: If we miss out on CL qualification for a year or two then that’s when we will need to dip into that fund because we will still have to pay the players their agreed salaries and we will probably have to pay a premium for players to come to us because we won’t have CL involvement to attract them [a’la Liverpool etc.] ..
In a nutshell then: the 15 – 20 million [Its actually nearer 20 million but I think that Wenger could not recall the exact figure when he made that quote] is a commitment and must be paid before all other costs are deducted, but the other stuff is voluntary in that its a level of profitability the club has decided upon as part of its sustainability strategy..
Just finished backreading. Some great drinks in there by the usual suspects.
Thanks for that explanation GT. Makes sense to me too.
And Zico, I like that drink @190 so much I think I’m going to tattoo it on my back 8)
The Jamaicans are due some congratulations for Jamaica 2 US 1 which will stand for a few days at least. Tuesday they play a rematch.
Serena Williams through to her 6th US Open final against Victoria Azarenka. I saw the final set of Azarenka’s victory over Maria Sharapova, a very close and well played match.
Zico: That was stupendous! You must have taken a puff off of some high grade before coming up with that.
185 the greedy badger massive heh,190 brilliant, drinks or morning coffee on me.
GT @206
‘ If we miss out on CL qualification for a year or two then thatโs when we will need to dip into that fund because we will still have to pay the players their agreed salaries and we will probably have to pay a premium for players to come to us because we wonโt have CL involvement to attract them [a’la Liverpool etc.] ..’
Surely this points to a weakness in the players contracts which should read (IMO) as follows
Salary is made up of basic first team ,
bonus for playing (x minutes/season) in EPL,
bonus for end of season place in EPL
ditto for CL,
various cups etc,
and different bonus for being on bench for the above
This reduces the risk to the club of profitabilty if we are (ever) non-qual for CL, is more results oriented for the players, and certainly will incentivise them to play out of their sock for regular places
{Please dont say that this system is complicated because I recall doing payroll programs in the seventies(when?), which were just as complex for shifts, standby etc}
This gives
This is therefore results oriented
oops dont know what happened – ignore last 2 lines
GT, cheers, yes, that’s the figures I saw and how they should be read, many thank!
zico 190: supoib!
And well in NorCal.
And heh, cognac: you don’t have to hand in your draft with the final copy ๐
I much prefer Draft to canned Ollie
Boilk ๐
heh cognac, and hoh ‘holic
Sometimes a mere compliment won’t suffice. This my friends, is one of those times. Now everyone, join hands and sing along (For Zico). “We’re off to see the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz. We hear he is a wiz of a wiz, if ever a wiz was. Because, because, because, because of the wonderful things he does! Oh, we’re off to see the Wizard, the Wonderful Wizard of Oz!!!
The Wizard of icOz, nice one abb.
Oh Ollie, For you ‘Walking on Sunshine’ Katrina and the Wavs. Enjoy lad!
I shall be changing trains in Swindon on the morning of September 28th.
I’ll be waving at the barman from the platform.
Cheers abb.
Zico – top stuff @190.
So atmospheric was that that, at the end of it, I had a sore throat from the smoke circling into the air and wafting through the bar.
As I got to the end of the piece, I looked down to notice I had one wet sleeve, and realised that the chap with the rash on his leg had been delivering the drinks.
As you pointed out, I had myself been sitting at the bar enhancing the “balance payable” column of Lars’ tab, by getting in a round for all present. While I’m at it, why don’t we get another round in right now – usual means of payment.
What you didn’t notice, was that I was sitting scratching at a piece of practice stone, trying to get my inscription perfect for all those present who had been so kind in their appreciation of my art.
What I didn’t notice, was that in watching you writing Zico, my mind had wandered somewhat from the task.
As I looked down to check my handiwork, I had in fact etched into the stone –
Goonerholics. Real Bar. Virtual Fiends.
Mmmm, should I now re-enter the competition ? ๐
Just for you, that was, GT @193. ๐
Morning all.
Where are you off to Ollie, Cheltenham or Gloucester?
Kemble, ‘holic.
(I think that’s on the way to Cheltenham indeed)
And a ‘heh’ for Trev.
Afternoon All,
I have to say I’m in the “whatever” camp on this one, as expressed by Faustus @72 and Nonny @96.
I really can’t see where Sagna has been disloyal in any way or even something approaching that term. As others have mentioned, to impose a blanket ban on giving any interviews would be a Stalinist measure signifying a far greater internal problem within the Club than anything which might spring from whatever the players might have to say.
If one accepts that the giving of interviews is part and parcel of the modern football world, it is also reasonable to expect that they will be asked about recent transfer activity. Sagna did not question the direction of the Club. He merely expressed surprise at the sale of a player who has been integral to the side since 08-09 and who had 3 years left on his contract. In raising an eyebrow at the departure of Song he simply repeated what many Arsenal fans did when news of the Cameroonian’s potential exit broke, not least in this Bar.
What was the alternative reply Sagna could have given? A big fat meh? Apart from the no doubt inflammatory and unwanted headlines of “Sagna blasts Song” that would have followed, such a response was never likely to happen. Sagna has a personal relationship with Song, a player who was already at the Club when he arrived, and a player with whom he shared nearly all of the highs and lows of his time at the Club.
It also seems to have been forgotten amidst the welter of hysterical comment that has followed the interview that Sagna has also recently lauded Diaby’s return and also said how good the newcomers looked.Those comments have been ignored in favour of those that more readily fit with a journalistic agenda of cheap headlines and a “club in crisis” narrative.
It is always a risk defending footballers these days, and for all I know there may be more cynical reasons behind his choice of words. I do think however that in this instance one of our most intelligent players of recent years, one of our least troublesome to manage, and one of our most consistent of performers deserves every bit of any benefit of doubt going.
I have no doubts that in Holic’s scenario above, Arsene will pursue option (a). Nor do I have any doubts that he will be right to do so.
Dr Z @190 Heh excellent ๐
What do you get when you cross the interlull with several draughts from the Liffey?
That’s #190, that is.
Kind words people, if you look closely you can see how the tenor changed from when the post was conceived to the point it was born screaming insanely on to the page.
If you didn’t recognise yourself in there, that’s probably a good thing ๐
Does that mean I have to read it all over again? ๐
Heh, it was the well-behaved you that turned up! ๐
Isn’t Saturday supposed to be the day of football?
Just sayin’ in 233, and no I’m really not interested in Scotland v. Serbia or Swindon v. Leyton Orient. Sorry if that offends zico or ‘holic or anybody else whose clubs are playing today. Just sayin’.
International football is dead to me 8ball ๐
FunG – back to the German puns!
Haven’t had time as yet. I decided to go out for a sausage and frites with Fritz, but it turned out to be the wurst idea I ever had.
My table was besieged by a pasty looking Spanish brat, El Pesto, who kept trying to pinch my chips.
Eventually the police were called and they had to kart-off-El Pesto, before I could finally get to eat something.
How have you done ?
Half-time Swindon Town 0-0 Leyton Orient.
I won’t make your eyes bleed by linking to the stream…
Tabs, I have no problem with our players giving interviews, none what so ever. But if they are searching for ANSWERS as to their own situation with the club is concerned, they’ve picked the wrong platform, to do so. Common courtesy dictates you go to your employer with your job related concerns. If not, your boss has no other option then ‘C’. Face to face frank discussion. One that Bac should have initiated, in the first place. ๐
Trev@236. Laboured – 4/10
By no means sure I could do better myself, mind.
COYG ICDDR
Heh @ zico for #190. Masterful.
Trev – That’s all schwein and dandy but as you’re Mรผnchen through your luncheon would you not prefer a Frankfurt-er two? One thing’s for sure, there’s no m-Essen with you.
‘holic. Swindon really should be overpowering Leyton Orient, being 8th in the table v. the 23rd placed club. Pitiful. ๐
A merchant scotsman married a German girl whose sister was so beautiful he insisted on bringing her into the firm. But when she turned out to be a lazy worker he said “It brings me no Mirth-to-Sack-Her.”
bt8b@242 Did you hear about the very tactile German optician. All his patients had their Eisfeld.
There was also the German purveyor of drinks coolant whose thermometer had broken. The only way he could determine the temperature of his product was to have his Eisfeld.
Sorry.
COYG ICDDR
Just watching last week’s MOTD2.
No surprise to see Hansen and Dublin making a sticky mess in their trousers at the sight of Manyoo’s Dutch striker scoring a hat-trick. To be fair to them, they were pretty complimentary about that Dutch bloke who played for us last year. They were, however, good enough to help us keep our feet on the ground last year by reminding us (ad nauseam) how risky it is to have a high proportion of your goals scored by one player. Well, 66% of Manyoo’s goals have now been scored by one player. I can’t say I’m surprised that they didn’t mention this salient fact, but I’m beginning to wonder how long it will be before they do see fit to highlight it. No time soon, I suspect.
Lovin’ the commentary on the Liverpool match. So far, one mention that Arsenal had tried (and failed) to sign Sahin, one mention of the fact that Giroud’s miss was arguably worse then his miss in a previous match and two mentions that the BFG had a hold of Suarez when the latter fell over in the Box. (To be fair, also one mention that Suarez falls over easily.)
COYG ICDDR
Oxon at #243 – A 4/10 for you too sir. I scored myself at a 2.5 at best ๐
Oxon @ #244 – 11/10 for the ‘sticky mess’ comment.
Also, I realise that I should have been paying attention but ICDDR??? A David Dein reference?
TS, Cato the elder rather than Dien. Speak to Lonestar, who doesn’t like my abuse of Latin. Failing that, see this previous bar.
COYG ICDDR
Thank you Oxon.
Something about thinking of the destruction of The Red Devils and yes, I used Google translate for that ๐
Oh yes TS, about yours @240. 2.5/10 would be generous for any of the individual attempts, but overall I think you deserve at least 3. I quite likes “schwein and dandy” to be honest.
COYG ICDDR
8ball @ #242: I Goetze give you 7.5/10 for that one.
Feeling all punned-out now. I kaputt-ulate (ouch!)
A general ha ha ha ha on the German puns, top marks for those which jemmied in the names of Arsenal players.
You’ve risen to the challenge (Leh)mannfully!
That was probably a career high on the pun front for me. Don’t worry, I saved time by not even taking my coat off…
@ 238 abb
well put.
a late night of beers then zombies, and so enough of a boilk to wait on aught but coffee until 1030.
excellent on the wiz, abb.
as for you german punsters, praise for not teuton yer own horns. i rather like the scoring system. for breakfast today it’s going to be moseli, then a hamburger for lunch; the mrs. and i are going to a restaurant I expect will be really hopfen.
and oxon at 248, agreed about “schwein and dandy”!
Hehs @TS, Oxon, Fun re German puns. ๐
Oh, you too scruz.
Think FunG was right though, they are bloody hard work. The puns, not the Germans. ๐
abb @ #238. What FunG said @ #250.
FunG – You have Poldi gone where no pun has been before. But this is nor-Malz for you, no?
The Fuhrer of these Prussian puns the better, if you ask me….
Abb,
Cheers for your response, but on this occasion I strongly disagree. I would be grateful if you might point out for me where, in his interview, Bacary was “searching for answers as to their own situation with the Club” ?
Dr Z @232 Is there such a thing? ๐
Gervinho scores for Ivory Coast against Senegal in their ACN qualifier first leg.
Sweet Mother of God, German puns?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo…
You mean nein (of them) ?
Sorry Guv’nor I was tempted and I fell. I’m sure it will all look better through the bottom of a Guinness glass
COYG ICDDR
Czechs versus Denmark now..quite surprised that both Vydra and Kadlec starting…real talents. But so far the game of both team hurts eyes meh.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2200162/Abou-Diaby-praised-Didier-Deschamps.html
More praises for Abou ๐
Would you like to choose an alternative country then ‘Holic? I’m sure we could oblige… ๐
Sorry Holic but whether you like it or not, I just heard my mate
Alf Veedor-saying that he will-kommen go as he pleases and crack German puns if he wants to.
Tabs, Just about awake now but I’ll give it ago. The article in L’Equipe prefaces that the French defender will be heading into the final year of his current deal at the end of the season. He (Sajna) maintains as yet there has been no talk of an extension. Red Flag #1. He goes onto say, “In May, I watched Man City lift up the Cup. I watched Samir and Gael lift the trophy. That gave me a desire for it. We’re they right to leave, yes. Red Flag #2. He also is quoted as saying, “When you see the two best players of the last season leave, you have a lot of questions”. Red Flag #3. But as I said in my earlier remarks, his decision not to rehab with Arsenal, dismayed me, even more. Team spirit and all that. Now perhaps I’m reading too much into his comments and actions. I hope so…he’s one heck of a human being and a terrific player.
Charlie @ #257. Please let him start doing that in The Prem on a regular basis.
Eisfeld that I should leave the German puns to the professionals. Otherwise I might get Mertered in here and have to Lukas for another bar to drink in.
My last word on German puns, except this is a true storey.
Went to visit my mo
Oh – iPad !
Went to visit my mother in hospital this afternoon and had to take the ‘elevator’ – for the Americans in the bar – which bore the name of it’s manufacturer “Schindler”.
So I really did find myself travelling in “Schindler’s Lift”.
Trev, Hope your mother is ok. Big hug across the pond for her. Enjoyed all the puns, btw. Takes a quick, sharp witted mind to come up with that stuff! Thanks to Fun, Scruz, and TS for the ‘warm fuzzies’ , specially coming from the likes of you, means a lot. Tabs, always enjoy our discussions, and look forward to engaging in more.
Thanks Abb, think I’ve seen enough of hospitals this year.
Swindon Town 0 Leyton Orient 1. ๐
Zico/Feelgood @190.
Brillo my friend,Brillo.!!
Mrs Dale said to say hello,although she was very very surprised to hear that you were not in her words,still,” detained indefinitley “.
She wanted to know when you were allowed back into the community,
considering the Judge,again in her words,marked your papers,
” Never to be released ”
I did ask what you had done to receive such a punitive sentence,but she went all pale and refused to answer.
Her parting words were,” I have to get back to the Village,there are some people i have to break the news to about Feelgood’s release from the Asylum.
After all these years,some of them are still in therapy,such was the fallout from the incident in the Woods ”
Whatever can she mean.??
There is no mention of this in her Diaries,although they are heavily redacted,apparently in the interests of public safety.
I will have to see if i can find any of Mrs Dale’s original jottings,to see if they can shed any light on this matter.
If i find anything,i will be in touch.
Cheers
The Sweeper.
I preferred the days when Shoot Magazine was the only time you heard from players.
Have a look at what David O’Leary had to say in 1979:
Favourite TV Show: The Sweeney and Many More
http://brandnewretro.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/daveoleary_1979.jpg
On my way to bed when this awful thought struck me.
One of the three wise men, en route to the stable to see the baby Jesus, broke his journey in Vienna, where he was much taken by the chocolate cake at one of the city’s leading hotels. So taken in fact, that he swapped his gift for their entire supply. He wasn’t able to continue to Jerusalem because… drum roll… he’d converted his myrrh to Sacher. (Look it up.)
Night all, and sorry again.
COYG ICDDR
Sweet dreams, Sweeper, Oxon and all. ๐ ๐
To the former: I have begun Jo Nesbo’s The Redbreast, and am turning the pages in suspenseful animation. ๐
funny, this: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/only-andrei-arshavin-himself-knows-second-condition-zenit-205752274–sow.html#more-14675
the only one i *really* wish for is the last.
scruz. it’s worth following your link just to see the pickle commercial, which 1. is pretty amusing; and 2. those of us outside Russia, or at least in the western hemisphere, may never have otherwise had a chance to see.
Scruz,
I totally vote for the pickle chips
it is funny, gays, but i just want to see him playing well consistently again. after that, he can have grandma send him chips.
heh, Arshavin advertising crisps.
McDonald’s next?
In an attempt to fill an empty Sunday morning and avoid falling victime to the temptation of more German puns, I’ve just listened to thatArabic commentaryfrom our home match against the neighbours last year.
When I say listened, that’s exactly what I mean. I still don’t understand more than at most a dozen words of Arabic and it’s still an amazing listen. I shed a tear or two as that Dutch bloke’s name was mentioned in the commentary, but I still recommend the clip to everyone here. The full throated roar when Theo bags his second still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end.
Have a good day one and all.
COYG ICDDR
I hope Mum is on the mend, Trev?
…and good morning everybody.
Feelgood rools OK.
See ol Harry back at his level some fall, from England candidate to advisor at bourmouth ๐
Zico#190…..how about that! I dont know how u do it.
ABB, scratch that, ‘there is only one ZICO…n he’s ours!’
Quiet interlull, drinking in the sun?
Abb,
Sorry but I just don’t buy your interpretation.To me, it says far more about how his interview has been reported, and not what he actually said.
Red Flag No.1 – Were his ACTUAL words really that bad or even surprising? I would venture that they aren’t. He has watched two mates pick up the Premiership trophy. What self-respecting footballer would not be just a tinny winny bit jealous? He is not an Arsenal fan, he is a professional player playing for Arsenal and whilst he may have a huge affection for the Club, it is wholly unreasonable to superimpose fans feelings , held since childhood, onto a player. Further, his words can be interpreted in a number of ways. Whilst many fans have immediately taken umbrage at the merest hint of criticism, why not take his words at face value ie he too would like to experience “that winning feeling”? Does he say that he has given up on having that feeling with Arsenal? Nope. He merely states that the decision by his mates to leave has been vindicated in terms of the trophy that they won last season.
Red Flag No.2 – Hasn’t everybody connected with the Club had questions in recent times?
Red Flag No.3 – Come on, this is a complete non-starter. Many many players have rehab away from the Club and to suggest that it is some sign of disloyalty is in my view, way off the mark. For example, Mertesacker’s ankle was operated on by a Dr Stockle in Tubingen. He then did his physical rehab in Bavaria. Is he also “disloyal”?
Sagna’s words were nothing more than the first salvo in extracting the very best contract from the Club for a player who is approaching his thirties and who has suffered 2 bad injuries in 12 months.
The wailing that has greeted his words says far more about the current willingness of the fanbase to imagine any perceived slight and rapidly go into meltdown mode, than it does about Bacary Sagna.
Trev – All best wishes re your mum’s illness mate, and here’s hoping for a speedy recovery.
Clive – Top-notch ๐
Dr Stockle in Tubingen?
So, the Foundation’s foundations are well and truly established in Germany…. ๐
Clive, Mrs Dale’s Diaries : Please appeal to her better nature, and think of the children. ๐
Red Flag number 3 is a complete non-starter indeed, as has been debated earlier.
As to the first two, well it’s the interlull. Not great things to say by any means, but let’s not forget that if most footballers are cunts (I am under no illusion now), nearly all journalists are, too.
Non-football weekend so time with the management, Ollie. Will publish something before tonight’s closing ceremony.
I didn’t mean about you, ‘holic, just about the drinking level in the bar.
You are more more more than welcome not publishing anything during the interlull in particular. Don’t feel you have to.
Enjoy your Sunday!
Thanks Tabs, Holic,
Bad combination of Parkinson’s and osteoporosis which is not going to get any better, so it’s just a question of dealing with it.
Oxon @275 – ๐
Is it me, us, fans in general, or do the clubs get just as sick of Interlulls as we do.
Managers must hate it despite some, like Arsene, always saying that they want players to play for their countries.
Apparantly next season’s friendly date, three days before the start of the season, has been scrapped, but as fans of all the top clubs, who now have ‘international’ sides anyway, grow more fed up with international football, FIFA seem ever more determined to foist more of it upon us.
The start of the season is so disjointed now with Interlulls every month, consecutive away games and barmy kick-off times, that FIFA are adding to the problem of distracting people’s interest from football, rather than enhancing it with their second rate product.
By next weekend we will have had one month between our first two home games of the season. What the feck is that all about ?
I am off to throw my radio in a river ‘cos I can’t stand one more chat show about Terry, Lumpalard, Cole’s fecking injury, Rooney’s leg and how many strikers we haven’t got.
FIFA, #%^@ OFF !
#%^@ ?
Surely you are free to express yourself in here, Trev ๐
I can’t be arsed waiting, so….
Someone will be there….
…to conclude this move….
*crosses the ball*
Your turn, lurkers.
Lurktastic?
oh went in:) thanks for the assist Ollie:) truly Diabysque one!
Are you ready for some FOOTBALL???
Let’s get this shot underway!!!!
TB12 <3
Shot=shit!!!!!!!!!!
sorry for spoiling your moment Snir ๐
The only people who can spoil today for me are the Tennessee Titans! Don’t worry!
@282 – thanks for that link. The best bit of commentary is after Theo’s second goal; the almost post orgasmic* “WALCOTT …. allllllahhhhhh” is fantastic.
*Anti-fatwa note – No blasphemy intended
A pleasant Sunday to all. Lovely weather here. ๐
Snir. Disruption in the family could be in store, the wife being a Packers fan and I a 49ers fan. Not sure why they arranged it this way. ๐
Trev@294. Thanks for the :-). I don’t withdraw my “laboured” crack above, by the way. I do, however modify my “not convinced I could do any better” (or whatever I said at the time) to “I couldn’t do any better”.
On more important things – best of luck with your mum.
Trev@295. Abso-bloody-lutely. The game really could do with a major rethink about internationals. There was some debate about it in the bar earlier this year which I can’t recall reaching any conclusion.
I’d like to see something based on combination of a move to central contracts à la Cricket and playing ALL international competitions during some dedicated period. Perhaps national top divisions could be reduced to 18 teams, leading to a 34-week season and holding the competitions in the four-week period thus freed up. In each four year cycle, there’d be a World Cup and a European (or whatever continent) championships. Perhaps in the remaining two years, the Home unions might like to organise Home Internationals or maybe something really daft – left handers versus right handers? eldest children against others? I guess smokers versus non-smokers isn’t on these days. Players with an odd number of letters in ther surnames against those with an even number? That’s the claibre of really daft I have in mind; something where we can randomly get behind one team or another and close our ears to the possibility that our choice was wrong, but when we’ve calmed down actually admit that it doesn’t really matter.
It needs some thought about indemnifying clubs against injuries to players whilst on international/daft tournament duty and payment to clubs for the value they deliver to the international FAs by coaching and general support for the players.
Also, it’ll never happen. (Certainly not the off-year competitions, but who’s to say the world wouldn’t be a better place if it did, and they did take place. Imagine an 80,000 crowd cheering for the non-gingers against those with hair transplants.)
Nonny – I REALLY like that clip. I think it needs to be on the list of anti-depressants for Arsenal fan. One of these days, I’m promising myself the opportunity to play it to some supporters the Middlesex-based team and see what they think of it.
COYG ICDDR
[Note, this drink was prepared without the benefit of any input from those gathered around the jukebox (see #190). I can come up with this sort of drivel all on my own. When’s the season going to get properly started FFS?]
8Ball,
It was an arranged marriage?
Not that there is anything wrong with that!
I myself grew up in Dallas and married a new Yorker. I got to smile first this year.
WEll in Eandy!
Heh, Spectacular at 302, Snir!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Heh @Oxon 308!
Let us stop making excuses for what might have been!
Let us just execute! (With today’s squad!)
If Henry had converted either one of his two one-on-one chances vs.
Barcelona’s Keeper in the 2006 Champion’s League Final; forget the sending off.
That game, played at Henry’s France’s National Team’s Stade d’ France, in Paris, was ours, Arsenal’s History-making, amazing, life-affirming statement of a lifetime, and he fluffed his lines.
And he was one of our “great” ones.?
And we’ve been chasing it ever since.
Let us just execute!!! (With today’s squad!) And we will win much!
Lert us just execute!
Arsenal – If they’d only stayed.
Hleb
Flamini
Diara
Fabregas
Van Persie
Ade
Eduardo
Reyes
Nasri
Wanted to be a PART of winning, when what we needed were players who wanted to BE winners.
Let us just execute!!!