Justice For The 96 Is Important To Everybody In Football
Sep 12th, 2012 by 'holic
“Can he squeeze round the turnstile?” One of the earliest footballing memories for those of us of a certain age, regardless of where we watched our football. The old man, keen to strike a deal, might even lift me over. It might have saved him a shilling, but for the fella on the gate a lot of shillings could be trousered. Gates were mis-reported as a result. Those who attended big games at Highbury such as the Fairs Cup Final in 1970 will tell you there were probably 10,000 more in the ground than recorded by those easy-to-manipulate turnstiles.
I was lucky in those days, young enough to squeeze into a space on the big step at the back of the Clock End, but I do remember games where the old chap and his mates were more than a little cosy on the terrace in front of me. As I started making my own way to matches around that time I would still squeeze through that turnstile on occasion. There were times on the North Bank when a sudden sway became a tumble. For a teenager it was a bit of an adventure. Only later did it sink in how dangerous it potentially was, surfing down the terrace with feet not in contact with the floor.
I was sixteen when Arsenal played Sunderland at Hillsborough in the semi-final of 1973. No football special with the boys for me that day. The ‘holicdad got three tickets. Luckily we took with us a cricket team-mate, a wicket-keeper batsman with the build of Ollie Milburn (Google him. He was a big old unit). I can’t be sure now what time we got there, but we would not have been late arrivals. I remember us taking up a position not too far from the front of the Leppings Lane terrace. I do remember thinking it was somehow unfair that the massive Arsenal following was being squeezed into this relatively small terrace while the second division club’s supporters had the massive Kop at the other end.
I do know by the time kick-off came that the old man and ‘Ollie’ had placed themselves directly behind me to try and keep the pressure that was building on everybody from affecting me. “Keep your arms up at all times son”. The meaning of the instruction was implicit. If the worse came to the worse you would need your arms free to lift yourself on the shoulders of those around you. I remember because of the density of the crowd it was very hot, sweaty, unpleasant in the extreme. Thankfully the opportunity for the swaying to build failed to present itself. We lost. I never forgot that day.
Twitter today bore testimony to similar incidents in semi-finals at the same venue involving other clubs long before the events of 1989 unfolded. I don’t recall why I wasn’t at Highbury that day, but instead I watched the drama unfold on Grandstand. Like many who had been there as soon as it became clear that early reports of ‘crowd disorder’ were wide of the mark I can remember starting to tremble with anger. I tweeted today that what happened that day was as inevitable as it was avoidable. Easy to say with the benefit of hindsight, I know, but none the less true for that.
That anger ebbed and flowed during the course of that weekend and the days that followed. So did the tears. Regardless of whether you support Liverpool or Everton, Arsenal or Tottenham, Manchester United or Manchester City, but for the grace of God that could have been ‘us’. The press and television fed us stories of ticketless drunks storming a gate and causing the crush that was to claim so many innocent lives. Long before today however we learned that was not necessarily the case. Chief Supt David Duckenfield was exposed long ago as the officer in charge who issued the fatal instruction to open that gate. Supporters did what supporters had always done up to that point. En masse they took the shortest route to the most crowded part of a terrace divided by brick walls and fences. There was nobody to direct them to the less crowded pens on either flank of the terrace.
What we did learn today was the extent of the official incompetence that left the victims without the support that could possibly have saved so many of them. What we did learn today was the extent to which official statements by those charged with ensuring public safety that day were tampered with in order that those responsible avoided the blame that lay squarely with their inactivity. The South Yorkshire Police may now face, far too late, the sort of scrutiny that should have happened years ago. I also trust that Sheffield Council will face further investigation into how such a huge match came to be played at a venue that did not have a current safety certificate. The verdict of the original inquest must surely be set aside so justice can finally be administered?
Twenty three years on I have once again felt the same mixture of tearfulness and anger. If you want to read another account that sums up the feelings of so many who were supporters at that time then I commend takeabowson’s comment number 288 on the previous post.
I pray that today will see the start of the process of closure for the families who have long fought for the truth to be heard. It is those families who deserve the support of the wider football family until that closure is complete. Then they, and football, can move on and put behind it an episode that has become a bone of contention between football people, although clearly not caused by football people. The welcome apologies from political leaders and the chief constable of South Yorkshire Police today are only the start of that process.
May justice for those families swiftly follow.
285 Responses to “Justice For The 96 Is Important To Everybody In Football”
Agreed- first?
Not much to add to my first comment… as usual you’ve done an excellent job of summarizing my current feelings with more clarity than I could provide myself.
Great stuff Holic.
A drink of your choice on me. You deserve it.
You too TaBS, you too mate.
As an exception, a comment on the previous drinks before I read the new post.
Abb,
thanks for your kind words, but they were before Tabs’ exceptional post, and he said it best.
By far.
Excellent Holic.
My oldest brother was at Ibrox park the day 66 souls were crushed to death.
Only the good hand of fate steered him out of the ground down an alternate staircase to number 13, which was the more logical one for him to use. He was too young to remember now why that choice was made but to this day he counts his blessings.
Old Ma Feelgood was fraught with the worst possible feelings for a matter of hours, only to be relieved when he eventually sauntered through the door, oblivious at the time to the carnage he narrowly missed.
I hear a lot of talk from people who should know better about how sterile modern football stadia are. I have lived and experienced both, and I know which I prefer, for all sorts of reasons.
Football is a day out.
And that’s all it is, really.
Cheers Holic, Trev.
Well said Dr Z.
You and me both z. Interesting debate on safe-standing today. Strangely I am in favour, conditionally, although would not want to partake.
Top half of table?
I was stood on the Clock End that afternoon. We were playing Newcastle. It was all about our result as we fought Liverpool for the title. I shared an office at the time with a Scouser, Liverpool season ticket holder. The banter through the season was massive. This was our chance to steal a march on them. Half time 0-0. Went to the toilets and asked a bloke with a radio how the semi was going. ‘Dunno mate – it’s been held up – Scousers fighting apparently’. A shrug, a piss and back up for the second half. We scored – cue the usual pandemonium where we stood on the fence between home and away fans. Suddenly a copper grabs my mate Steve ‘Beef’ Bergin and hisses ‘calm down – someone has died in a football ground today and it ain’t happeneng here’. In our 21 year ignorance / exuberance we sneered.
The period after the game is blurry but I remember getting back to Paddington for the 10pm train back to Slough. The early editions of the Sunday papers were out. What we had heard as rumour around West London that evening was confirmed – 70+ people had died at Hillsborough. Sobering in the extreme. Getting home in time for Match of the Day – watched through tear filled eyes. The following days only confirmed even more bad news and accusations.
My Scouse colleague was off sick the following week. Only when he returned did we discover he was there and had seen himself in some of the photos published in the tabloids in the days following the disaster. He was never the same again. And he never went to football again. But he survived. He was one of the lucky ones.
Excellent piece. Not the first apology on behalf of the Met of that era and I doubt it will be the last.
Good piece Guv. Horrible to think of all those exciting times in large crowds just the right side of out-of-control and how they might have turned out differently.
COYG
Great piece once again sir.
It was a dark day for English football, the needless loss of life was a tradgedy that no words can do justice. The only light point was the total revamping of the laws that are now in place to insure that the football experience is a safe one.
96 gone, but never forgotten. I pray that the families can finally find peace.
Damn, I was pointing people on the arses towards tabs’ 288 post without knowing there now was a new ‘holicblog!
How about punishment for the guilty one’s, the ones the caused all that carnage, not a word on them
My troll alert is buzzing…
Splendid. And the barman pointed towards that tabs post too, so what more can one ask?
Round for all!
On a side note.
The Germans lead the way in safe standing terraces, I’d urge anyone who gets the chance to check out their excelent stadia, an excellent footballing experience.
Also a drink on the bar for all, maybe not the perfect day for a celebration, but it’s my birthday all the same so please have a tipple on me.
Cheers all.
Lovely post holic. Only once did i experience a real surge on the north bank and i shit myself. Can’t think of the horror experienced by those men women and children.
More great stuff ‘holic.
Nice one Zico.
It is easy to look back, as Tabs and Zico said, through the rose tinteds at those days of high atmosphere on the terraces and criticise the lack of passion in all seater stadia.
In truth many of those days were like the Wild West come to the North Bank Highbury.
Many of those occasions have been mentioned in this bar before – Tottenham, many times, West Ham, a potentially horrendous end of season encounter with Aston Villa, and an afternoon cup tie against Derby County.
That afternoon against Derby, hundreds of small children – I myself was a young truant that day – were passed overhead to the front of the North Bank to avoid the increasing crush on the rest of the terrace.
Unable to reach my usual side of the terrace that day, I stood to the left of the goal as we looked towards the Clock End.
Arms always up – Holic – we were genuinely scared as it became difficult to breathe. There was simply not enough room to expand the chest.
Suddenly, I was staring at several rows of empty terrace right in front of me where a crush barrier had collapsed. Dozens of people struggled in a heap on top of each other and gradually climbed back to their feet.
Fortunately this was Highbury, and the other plentiful crush barriers absorbed the pressure and a far more serious incident was averted.
We were lucky. Ninety-six families involved in Hillsborough were not.
I can add nothing to Holic’s and Tabs’ words on that but football, in those days, was often a dark place.
Anyone who went to football in those days could have been an unwitting, undeserving victim of a disaster.
To then blame those victims for their own demise is inexcusable.
Cheers for the drink (and the plug!) Ollie.
Cheers Ollie, dino, Trev.
Running on adrenalin tonight. Still seething at the scale of what was revealed.
There but for the grace…..Justice for the 96 surely to follow.
Happy Birthday H2H, have a good one mate.
Trev, I can only agree with all you say.
Said it, ‘holic. And Trev. Buy you both a drink …
Happy Birthday H2H!
Cheers Tabs, Aunty.
Happy Birthday H2H.
Lars’ wallet is on the bar. π
Bring them to justice goverment should be libel tfor their actions
Happy Birthday H2H
On behalf of all the Feelgood Foundation Executive Board, may I pass on our felicitations and trust you had a good one and you enjoyed a day of taking the day off (or “work” as some people call it).
Apart from Holic, who calls it golf…. π
Wow. Well written Holic and others. As an American who has never attended such a football match and withstood the crowds and crush it is hard for me to fully understand the event. However, as a human it is impossible for me not to empathize with the victims and families. I also understand the outrage at the attempted cover-up and attempted defamation of the victims.
96 people and their families are in my thoughts and prayers.
I thought PM Cameron’s address of the house was excellent.
Happy Birthday H2H.
Trev@20 – Was that afternoon cup-tie against Derby County played early because of restrictions on use of floodlights during a miners’ strike sometime in the early seventies? I remember being very peeved because school insisted that I turn up for General Studies – universally accepted as being a waste of everyone’s time. My argument that going to a footie match was a general study met with disappointingly little response. I’ve been kicking myself for 40-odd years now because I didn’t bunk off anyway. Sounds like it was an experience well worth missing. A crowd of 63,000-odd if I remember correctly.
COYG
The very same Oxon.
I have nothing but prayers for the families of the deceased. Don’t really about the incident (was born in ’89), i’ll google it up tho. English folks are the craziest about football. Nice post. My first read. Hopefully the next post is more cheerful as i wanna be a fan. I only take malt drinks please. Any1 to buy me 1.
Many happy returns, H2H.
Can I have a Scottish malt drink too please? One from Islay if possible.
COYG
…and one for KrazyGenius too please barman.
COYG
Mmmmm π
Good evening everyone. Holic, Thanks for explaining how business was done back then. I’m trying to picture the standing room only, but if at anypoint, you could insert a photo of one of the terraces at Highbury, to which you refer, I would be grateful. From your account and others, it sounds like attending games back in the day was risky business for fans. Unfortunately, this practice still seems to be the norm in some countries. It couldn’t have been easy for you to write this moving piece, but you did with great sensitivity and an eye for justice.
Happy birthday H2H….hopes you are drinking something more appropriate than snowballs.
Well considered and appropriate report ‘holic. Those in charge and the resulting cover up shoud be ashamed at their actions a nd should face the appropiate consequences. Meantime a new inquest should be held without delay to allow final closure to the families of the bereaved.
Oxon you are right, with the miners strike, there was the 3 day week caused by electricity rationing and it was an a an afternoon kick off. I managed to blag the afternoon off work and got to the ground just before kick off. Came up through the lower entrance clock end behind the goal and initially couldn’t even make the terrace. Slowly with arms held high managed to squeeze my way through the crowd to join my pals half way up. It was totally unsafe, very squashed and breathing felt restricted at times. In the end it took the enjoyment out of the occasion. No doubt the crowd was somewhat higher than the official figure of 63000.
And on a much lighter note, cheers H2H π
Wonderful piece, goonerholic.
At the time, I had close to zero interest in football, but I do remember the day it happened and the horror of it. I am ashamed to say that, lacking any other information or knowledge, I didn’t question the mendacious narrative concocted by the police and propagated by the papers. The Sun was the worst, but not the only offender in this regard, of course. The story dovetailed with what a lot of non-football people thought they knew about football fans.
Uppy@39 and Trev – It was 1972 wasn’t it? There was a three-day week in ’74, when I was actually at work between A-levels and University, but I didn’t think things got that bad in ’72.
Ahh, the NUM throwing its weight around and a weak government running around with its head up its arse shouting “Don’t panic, Mr Mainwaring”… those were the days.
COYG
Sorry ’bout that, can’t think what come over me.
Night all – a drink for Uplympian by way of apology for mis-spelling his name and one for yourself ‘holic.
COYG
@Oxon Gooner…thanks a bunch. Nice family.
Commenting from afar here, but thank goodness for the light of day and the eventual arrival of justice.
Can’t remember the exact year off the top of my head, but I’m fairly sure it was the era of the three day week.
As an exuberant young whipper snapper i used to love standing on the north bank.. late 80’s onwards. But yeah, it got scary at times and as you point out, Hillsborough could have been us, or any other set of fans (not that it really matters.. ) I Remember clearly the cup game against LFC on a weds where there was not an inch to move anywhere.. 70,000 people or summat.
Anyway, I hate the sanitised airport terminal feel of the Emirates but it allows me to take my son to a safe environment and bring him up as Arsenal. Safe standing is a debate that should happen though because Football has to become affordable again for the younger generation. As schoolboys we paid 2.50 to stand and even in the mid 90s i remember it was 4 quid. 4 quid to watch Anders Limpar score from the half way line with a sumptuous chip against Liverpool!!!, (long before Beckham did something similar.. but not as good)
Anyway, interesting read ‘Holic. May the families find the justice they deserve.
To those of us that stood on terraces throughout the 60’s 70’s and eighties it is easy to see how the rumours of ticketless supporters surging through gates was easily believed. We had all experienced such things and had lived on the edge of such disasters. From the perennial late arrival of scouse supporters to the bottle throwing Rangers fans , on crowded nights the north bank and many other stands of the same ilk were not for the faint hearted. Thankfully the Arsenal refused to put up cages to fence people in , there was always the alternative of the pitch although to my knowledge it was never needed. I have listened to the coverage today and maybe I missed it but forgoing the culpability of the crowd control and the subsequent cover up ,what reason was given for the police being forced to open the gate ?
Nurse, the North Bank looked like this…http://www.greyhoundsweb.no/wp-content/2011/05/highbury.jpg
The West Ham game Trev has alluded to is described here.
http://skinhead69.hubpages.com/hub/Trouble-on-the-Terraces-Arsenal-v-West-Ham-at-Highbury-1982
This was the Leppings Lane terrace at Hillsborough http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/img/terrace.jpg where half of the fans were located at FA Cup semi-finals.
The other sides supporters got this end http://www.sunwing.co.jp/MatchOfTheDay/stadium/s-Hillsborough.jpg before the roof went on it. Notice the difference in size and capacity?
‘holic, excellent job. tabs @288 previous, bravo. to various here who have experienced the crush, thank goodness you’re here. i’m with norcal in not having done so, for which i am greatful. i am astonished at the scope of the injustice done to the liverpool fans, and that it took 23 years to bring it to light.
many happy returns, h2h. have one on me.
Oxon & Trev….it was 1972. Strangely I found the 3 day week was good. We were asked to work 3 x 11 hour days but had 4 days off…great fun. Only lasted 2-3 weeks though. The Derby Game was a replay and ended 0-0 but we won the third game at Derby 1-0. Those were the days before penalty shoot outs to settle drawn cup games and replays continued until the tie was won.
Holic, Thank you! Ok, get some vibes on what it must have been like (picture #1). Now to read your second link.
Oxon 43… No apologies necessary. A wee nip of The MacAllan will make a nice night cap tvm.:-)
Reading that article Holic made me feel like I was in the thick of it. The photos give me a much better understanding now of the set up. Excellent follow up, sir.
Evening all – and thank you for a very thought provoking post ‘holic.
I have just finished the report, very sobering reading indeed. A far more complex situation (and conclusions) than I have seen thus far in the media however. I hope the bereaved families are in some way comforted by its findings.
Abb @52 – “ok, get some vibes on what it must have been like”.
Sorry Abb, but not from that picture you don’t.
Have to say that, after all this time, that picture of the terrace made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up again. And not in a good way.
The all-seater stadia of today have created what is referred to by some as a ‘sterile atmosphere’, and to a certain extent the home support at most grounds isn’t as noisy as once it was.
It is a different experience for certain. The benefit you get from less atmosphere is greater safety. I can understand the difficulty that gives some people.
And yes I see the difference. Dear God, packed in like sardines, they were. How inhumane. Difficult to look at, but it says it all.
Evening snowman –
safe to assume you’ll be dropping into The Tollie on Saturday ?
Evenin’ Trev – I shall probably pop along for a swift, er, ‘half’…
Good man snowy π
Back to Hillsborough. Some still accusing ticketless fans, maybe sauced up. All clubs fans, yes even ours, today still ‘jib’ into grounds and may or may not have had a pint or two first.
Fair to assume the majority of the 2000 who poured through that gate when the dickhead chief supt ordered it to be opened had tickets and were looking to beat the queues to get in that had built up, for whatever reason.
The decision to open that gate, and subsequent attempt to blame the fans for battering it down, is an utter disgrace.
That is what today finally nailed down.
Really good blog, ‘h. I was at a mate’s house, three parts pissed, eating pizzas and playing chess with Grandstand on in the background that day. Soon sobered up though.
Arsenal related – more horseshit from Gazidis about ambition.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-arsene-wenger-to-be-offered-a-new-1321729
Uh-oh, Shitstorm2, The Extension.
Bang goes a quiet couple of days π
Nonny,
Meh, I didn’t see too much wrong with what Gazidis said. I am sure some will take anything he says and run with it, but it’s pretty benign really in my opinion.
“I pray that today will see the start of the process of closure for the families who have long fought for the truth to be heard. It is those families who deserve the support of the wider football family until that closure is complete”
Praying with you ‘holic
A day that changed us all….very sad today for the avoidable reasons you mentioned. I can’t comment on the level of corruption that now finally seems so evident. All I can say is we knew it could so easily have been any of us and that feeling never left in all the years since.
Nonny, Please humour me and explain just what in that article has got you all riled up. Be specific, lad. I for one, worship Arsene and have complete faith in him and Ivan. And yes, a drink for you awaits. This is for FunGunner, last set of drinks. Fun, out of everone’s take on Bac and Coq, your assessment rang the truest to my ears. You have an ability to organize your thoughts, back them up with facts and present it all in a very nonthreatening manner. You are quite the Lady, cheers.
It’s that old oxymoron Abb – “women’s logic”. π
*grabs coat and runs*
Evening holics.
Holic. Superb dealing of a very sensitive subject. Tabs. Awesome on the previous blog. An excellent post.
Itβs strange looking back on 23 years ago and beyond. I am sure we all remember the day and the aftermath. I remember the days at Highbury and various away grounds when fans were treated poorly at best. I fast forward to today and think of the pleasure that going to the Grove brings me. You will all know of the several trips I, and many others no doubt have made with our offspring. Not something we could have even contemplated back in those days. I guess back then we all just accepted it as the norm and got on with it.
I have the utmost respect for those who have carried their fight for justice with immense dignity. I hope that they all receive the justice they deserve and that it is swift. Events like Hillsborough affect every genuine football fan so I dread to think how those who have a direct involvement feel. Kenny Dalglish at the time was attending up to 4 funerals a day. Lord only knows how you deal with that.
I always remember from the football that season that we suspended our play until Liverpool were ready again. That of course resulted in that wonderful night at Anfield and the title in 1989. Despite all they had been through, Liverpool fans stayed to applaud the newly crowned champions.
Out of all of this I guess what sickens me the most is that all of this evidence has been available for 23 years. This is not new evidence. This is not advances in scientific examinations that have brought about this report. It was a cover up from on high. Blatant corruption from those seeking to cover their own inadequacies. There can be no excuses for that whatsoever.
Sits back and raises a glass to all genuine football fans.
Word, Steve. See you Saturday?
I am there Saturday and with the little man. May be a quick hello and a pass of a beer through the fence?????? He will be happy with some cheese and onion.
π
@abb – The extension to the contract for one thing. I don’t see how giving a man whose best days are way behind him is ambitious.
The rest of it about how much the board want success, that fourth is not the aim blah blah blah.. actions speak louder than words and nothing this board (or the one before it) has done since the stadium move inspires much confidence.
Unless you are Arsenal’s bank manager.
So annoying to hear all this rubbish after another transfer window that sees quality leave, with a tidy profit from another transfer window sitting in the bank.
Excuse typo in the first bit. It should read “I donβt see how giving a man whose best days are way behind him another contract is ambitious”.
Ok Nonny, but don’t you feel we are strengthened now. I must admit that having to rely on just RVP last season for the bulk of the goals, unnerved me. Feel more confident now that we have players who can share this responsibility. And look what progress we have made in our defending. Just want you to enjoy the season, as it unfolds. With last year’s fighting spirit joined with our new additions, anything is possible.
Steve, Good point made in your last paragraph, the evidence was there, just begging to see the light of day. Of the 96 victims, 79 of them were under the age of 30. The youngest was only ten (Stephen Gerrard’s cousin). The oldest was just 67. Two sisters and three pairs of brothers died that fateful day.While forty four ambulances arrived, the police only permitted ONE entry. Three suicides have been attributed to this tragedy. Others, inconsolable with their losses turned to drugs and alcohol. Marriages dissolved over the loss of their young. 766 were injured, 2 left in a persistent vegetative state, one who finally succumbed. Only 14 of the original fatalities, made it to a hospital. Criminal back ground checks done on the victims. Blood alcohol levels done on the children…defies sane logic and reasoning.
Abb, remember our season is only three games old so it cannot really be characterized in any meaningful way quite yet. Yes, there are very good signs that our defending is improved but I’m nervous about trumpeting the three straight clean sheets, thinking it could be the herald of bad news, even against “lowly” Southampton.
Spot on, the Arsenal fans who seemed so convinced that it was still the fault of the Liverpool fans is quite staggering, even though the report clearly states that no fan was in any way responsible and yet these cretins still harp on, great piece mate, my first game was 1973 when I was eight, and the vast amount of fans huddled together use to scare me when I was a kid, but at that age I thought it was the norm and it continued for years and it had to take the Hillsborough disaster before any one took notice.
ABB and Nonny,
I am somewhere in the middle. I am not a Wenger out nor do I think the club has done all it can do to show true ambition. A summer where we cough up a few more pounds than we make would be a start in my book. Not for the sake of spending but for the sake of really improving the squad ( right now it has been just replace what we lose,if that.) But I also am not sure there is a manager out there that would get as much out of the market and out of his players as AW currently does.
I said my piece earlier when it looked like we had sold 3 starters again this summer. CvC, Song and Theo were all integral to getting us into 3rd last year. All we did was bring in their replacements ( and a profit). Will we end up better than last year? Maybe, maybe not. Will we win a trophy this year? Again I don’t know. Would we be happy to win the Carling one cup and finish 8th in the table? I personally would not. And I don’t think AW or the board would either. So why the rush to renew the bosses contract?
We have started the season and the squad needs our support. I would even say the manager needs our support, but I will agree with Nonny that the timing of the renewal of AW’s contract could definitely wait until the end of this season, or at least later into the season.
Hi all, I know this isn’t a Liverpool forum but I just received this from a Liverpool supporting mate and just thought it sums up the loss still being felt by those who lost their loved ones on that horrible day.
Justice? One step closer but I have my doubts whether any of those responsible for this tragedy will ever be punished in any way, let alone will they have to face up to the grief that the families of the 96 have been through for the past 23 years, directly caused by, first, their incompetence, and secondly the massive cover up and outright lies peddled from the very top of the establishment.
Cheers and roll on Saturday, interlull gives me the shits, giroud to open his account vs southhampton like wrighty, DB10 and titi.
A schoolboy holds a leather ball
in a photograph on a bedroom wall
the bed is made, the curtains drawn
as silence greets the break of dawn.
The dusk gives way to morning light
revealing shades of red and white
, which hang from posters locked in time
of the Liverpool team of 89.
Upon a pale white quilted sheet
a football kit is folded neat
with a yellow scarf, trimmed with red
and some football boots beside the bed.
In hope, the room awakes each day
to see the boy who used to play
but once again it wakes alone
for this young boyβs not coming home.
Outside, the springtime fills the air
the smell of life is everywhere
violaβs bloom and tulips grow
while daffodils dance heel to toe.
These should have been such special times
for a boy whoβd now be in his prime
but spring forever turned to grey
in the Yorkshire S*n, one April day.
The clock was locked on 3.06
as S*n shone down upon the pitch
lighting up faces etched in pain
as death descended on Leppings Lane.
Between the bars an arm is raised
amidst a human tidal wave
a young hand yearning to be saved
grows weak inside this deathly cage.
A boy not barely in his teens
is lost amongst the dying screams
a body too frail to fight for breath
is drowned below a sea of death
His outstretched arm then disappears
to signal thirteen years of tears
as 96 souls of those who fell
await the toll of the justice bell.
Ever since that disastrous day
a vision often comes my way
I reach and grab his outstretched arm
then pull him up away from harm.
We both embrace with tear-filled eyes
I then awake to realise
it’s the same old dream I have each week
as I quietly cry myself to sleep.
On April the 15th every year
when all is calm and skies are clear
beneath a glowing Yorkshire moon
a lone scots piper plays a tune.
The tune rings out the justice cause
then blows due west across the moors
it passes by the eternal flame
then engulfs a young boys picture frame.
His room is as it was that day
for thirteen years itβs stayed that way
untouched and frozen forever in time
since that tragic day in 89.
And as it plays its haunting sound
tears are heard from miles around
theyβre tears from families of those who fell
awaiting the toll of the justice bell.
This poem was written by dave kirby iN 2002. it is quite possibly the most moving thing i have ever read.
Great post mate. As anyone who knows me will testify, I’ve no time for mickey mousers, (Harrow on the Hill 1987 springs to mind), but as you said so eloquently above, what happened that day was a crime against Football Supporters, not Liverpudlians. And it was a crime. And so was the cover-up. I hope that justice will be done better late than never. A part of me says ‘fat chance!’, but here’s hoping anyway.
Indeed Esso. I have taken great care to point out my sympathies lie specifically with the families of those who were the victims of incompetence.
They could have been from anywhere.
Like 8ball, reading from afar, it’s an education indeed. Some great posts, tabs of course at 288
Hope the families receive some semblance of justice after this
A drink to H2H as well, wishing him many happy returns
Just went back to read Tabs’ post on the last drinks. Brilliant Stuff!
A moving post @78.
I have some thoughts on Hillsborough, the response to it and the response to yesterday’s report. My views are largely in tune with the vast majority but differ on some, slightly peripheral, points. I fear it will be impossible to discuss those differences in a measured way, even in the calm of this bar. Since I do not wish to do anything to disturb the general consensus I shall not mention my own slight reservations in response to this piece.
I believe that the 96, or their families now have truth, may they not have to wait overmuch longer for justice.
Sigh… To work!
COYG
Sometimes it’s better to just shut up and listen, and this is one of those times. Great stuff from the Holic, Steve T, Trev, tabs and others.
Drinks for everyone on my tab as always.
My sentiments entirely ‘Holic(s). I have only ever been involved in one crowd surge (not even a crush) and that was honestly scary. Forever etched on my mind will be the photo in the paper maybe the following day or sometime soon thereafter of a woman with her face rammed into the fencing, her pain and fear that should never have been. Absolutely awful. I know that we aren’t surprised by the cover up but the fact of it at all is outrageous and it’s enormity is revolting. May the families get the justice they and their loved ones deserve, and hopefully one day some form of peace.
Nonny
Have to disagree with you re IGΒ΄s talking… canΒ΄t see anything wrong with it at all. Maybe a better article reporting it is the one in the Telegraph today.
Still, itΒ΄s all about opinion and perceptions… so long may we continue to differ! π
Hi ‘Holic. Re. the links, and the West Ham report, is that where the “tiptoe through the North Bank with your boots on and get your head kicked in” came from? Sorry for ignorance.
thanks to all you excellent folks who’ve described your experiences on the terraces and on that awful day, for the benefit of those who weren’t there.
AW to hold contract talks with IG with 2 years remaining on his current deal? If only he had had the foresight to consider such actions with some of the playing staff?
Just saying like. π
Down under. Great poem. Hard to read I must say.
Well, it looks like I will be in Qatar for a big chunk of October.
Only planned home game I might end up missing is QPR (though I might just be back on time for that), but I will sadly miss Norwich away that I was planning to attend.
Oh well.
In other news, I see the young ‘uns lost at Olympiacos. Hopefully we can, for once, win over there with the A-team.
Steve T, I believe that the difference is that the playing staff in questions didn’t want to talk….
Ollie @92…. sounds like AW doesnΒ΄t want to talk yet either! Must be contagious…. π
Ollie. I am not sure if that is true at all. We have no idea how many are spoken to with 2 years left do we? My guess though is not many.
Tabs from previous drinks.
top post mate,hat’s doffed and all that.
Potter @48,
Highbury did have one game where the crowd was so enormous that they had to use the perimeter of the pitch,and that was early 60’s,
probably only Uplympian will be old enough to remember,
The visitors on a tuesday night were the Spuds,puffed up in their pomp and glory from winning the double,Mackay/Blanchflower,
Cliffy Jones/Bobby Smith/John White et al,.
Dad knew there was something amiss when we couldn’t even get out of the Underground station when we got off the train.!!
Took us about 15 mins to get up the stairs and out into the fresh air.
The crowds were enormous,it took us another hour to work our way round to the entrance near the North bank where we always went in.
Dad’s mate as usual was on the turnstiles and he got the usual buy one get one free offer,and we were in.
Dad took one look at the heaving masses on the North Bank and steered me down to the little standing terrace to the right of the dugout.
But it was evident that even in that enclosure,the numbers were far more than usual.
As the minutes ticked by and more and more people finding they couldn’t get on the North Bank were pushing into our area,it was apparent that things were getting out of control.
Fortunately due to some alert Arsenal Stewards patrolling round the pitch that could see serious problems unless prompt action was taken,
made the decision to get all the youngsters that were down the front near the wall,up onto the perimeter of the pitch, to ease the crush.
So all around the entire parameter of the Pitch,us young Un’s sat 2 and 3 deep within touching distance of the famed Highbury turf.
Such was the crush that God knows what might have happened if the Stewards hadn’t taken such prompt action.
The game itself was supposed to kick off at 7.30 but with so many people still outside trying to get in,and the wholesale removal from the terraces of the youngsters, the kick off was delayed for 30 minutes and eventually kicked off around 8 pm.
It was a cracking game and ended in a 4-4 draw,with Arsenal scoring twice in the last 10 minutes to earn a draw.
Dad maintained all his life that he had never ever seen a crowd that big at an Arsenal game before or since.
The noise levels during the game were absolutely deafening,and you could not hear yourself think.
Many people there that night swore that about 70,000 people got in the ground for the game.
Dad also reckoned that the guys on the turnstiles made more money on the side that night,than they normally made in a season.!!
But without the prompt action of the Stewards,that night could easily have turned into a catastrophe.
Cheers
The Sweeper
True Steve T, but my own guess is ‘many’ (and ‘more and more’)
Something slightly bizarre/amusing.
I hadn’t logged into the travel agency stuff for over a year, couldn’t remember my password.
So in this case, they ask you specific questions to make sure it’s you before they send you an e-mail.
I had to scratch my head, as I had no idea what could be the answer to ‘What’s the name of your favourite pet?’
Never having had one I was surprised I had ever selected that. Tried ‘Garfield’ but no luck.
I eventually noticed you could change the language, so tried to log into the site in French.
Now the question was ‘What’s your favourite animal?’. Which is quite different. And didn’t prove to be a problem.
abb@73 – I would rather have kept RvP and added one more quality striker to share the goals than sell him and buy two who are not on his level, but sadly he was unimpressed with what he was told (if you take him at face value) and left. Reading that interview, I can understand why.
It is a bit early to point at the defending as greatly improved, but suppose we continue through the season with a very tight defence. What changed it? A change of first team coach. For years we’ve had a dodgy defence, even when winning things, with Pat Rice around and yet just a short summer later, interrupted by the Euros remember so there wasn’t even a full pre-season to work on it, the defence improves massively. Maybe a change of manager will kick this club on and for me, it is a bit mad to be giving Wenger an extension when Guardiola is going to be looking for a job next summer.
Assisting time again.
A picture which speaks volumes:
http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/big-picture/120912/picture-arsene-wenger-reacts-news-rvps-injury-180707
Taking RvP at face value, sorry Nonny but I can’t.
I would absolutely love to know the alleged demands, but really the ‘message on his website’ and subsequent Usmanov communiquΓ© means they can all fuck off.
Alternatively, Nonny, maybe a change of manager now will precipitate the relegation we’re all talking about π – tongue firmly in cheek, but you get the idea.
I’m happy for him to stay, or for him to go if he chooses to. At some point we’ll have to live to learn without him.
Anyway :
http://www.arsenal.com/digest
‘I’ve not held contract talks’.
Not that I hold what AW says at Press conference at face value either, mind!
Well in Gtown, I had to wait for someone to post, to make sure I didn’t self-assist!
Thanks for the assist Ollie…
…Boooooooooom!
Top corner. Keeper had no chance!
π
Good morning all. First I must confess that I feel a little awkward discussing futbol matters outside the realm of Holic’s current post. In deference to the victims and their families. Very grateful folks have found a way to bridge the two in a most dignified manner. @ 78 Thank you for sharing such a touching tribute.
“I would absolutely love to know the alleged demands” – Beyond money I don’t believe there were any.
Nonny: Pep won a lot of stuff at Barca, but then he had a team with Messi, Xavi, and Iniesta (quite possibly all three at their peaks) in it. And to be honest, the way Messi was playing then he could have had pretty much any players around him and they would have won shitloads anyway. I honestly don’t think he has proven very much as a manager yet.
I understand the idea behind “maybe a change of manager will kick this club on”, but that assumes that anyone who comes in will do all of the good things Arsene does but none of the bad and then adds a few more good things. But what if we get someone who does the bad things and very few of the good ones? It’s a bit like dog breeders who think “alright, I have a Collie who is very obedient but a coward and a German Sheperd who is strong and brave but aggressive towards people and can’t play dead for toffee – I’ll let them breed and then I’ll have a strong, brave and obedient dog that won’t attack people unless I tell it to” and forgets that there is just as big a chance that you end up with a cowardly, weak and unruly mutt π
And also, I am not sure the (so far) improved defense is neccessarily a Steve Bould effect per se. I think it is much more down to an improved focus on defending in general, because let’s not forget that the Academy teams led by Bould had the exact same defensive frailties that the first team has had for years. Yes, he has been working on it with the first team but it is Arsene Wenger who has decided to spend more time on practicing that bit, make no mistakes about that.
From today’s PC Digest: (seems to have been brought ahead. Poss due to international break).
** Sagna around three weeks from return
** Diaby to be assessed, Szczesny fit
** Wenger – I’ve not held contract talks
** ‘International schedule change is a big comfort’
** ‘Newly-promoted teams more adventurous’
** ‘Wilshere will return to training soon’
Nonny@104: according to Amy Lawrence of the The Guardian and (I think) Arseblog, the demands were most definitely about much more than money and were for the most part completely ridiculous.
When asked at today’s Presser whether Diaby will make it on Saturday, this is what he had to say on the matter:
Wenger said: ‘Diaby is in a position where we can certainly play him. We just have to assess the risk to play him or not. That will be done tomorrow.
‘We won’t take a gamble on him, especially because of his history.’
Just in case anyone has missed it:
on Abou Diabyβ¦
He will have a test on Friday morning and we will go from there. At the moment he is 50:50. It is a small muscular problem that is very minor. But of course we are in the situation that, because we play so many games now, should we take a gamble or not with him? We are playing on Saturday, on Tuesday and then we go to Manchester City.
on the goalkeepersβ¦
Lukasz Fabianski is out with a shoulder problem. He has come back from Poland with a shoulder problem and Wojciech is perfectly fit and ready. He will be in the squad.
on any other injuriesβ¦
There are none from the international games. The only problem we have at the moment is that Theo Walcott is in bed with a virus. He missed the England game with a virus. He should be back today, so we will have to see how well he has recovered from that.
on Emmanuel Frimpongβ¦
He is very close. He joins the squad again next week for complete, normal training. It is very good news because he is really fit and ready. He has worked very hard and we are amazed how good he looks at the moment.
on long-term absenteesβ¦.
Wilshere is not far away. Sagna is not far away. At the moment the injured players look like they are recovering well. The main injuries are Frimpong who is recovering well, Wilshere is short-term, Sagna around two weeks and Rosicky around two to three weeks.
@ goonerholic
It was indeed a crime against football supporters because they were seen as a bunch of hooligans.
Basically, prorities were utterly skewed. Crowd control treated as more important than crowd safety, respect for authority (hence collusion in the cover-up) treated as more important than respect for human life. Thank god the campaigners did not give up.
***
@ 66 abb
hon, thanks so much.
Sending some love right back at you!
I also agree, the testing of the kids for blood alcohol stands out as one of the most disgusting in a litany of shameful acts.
@ 67 Trev
Yeah, Trev, you better run! Run like the wind!
@ Nonny
I’m delighted about Arsene being offered a new contract and I hope he takes it. He’s done an amazing job to keep us competitive through the really lean years (financially, I mean) and I personally want him to reap the benefit now that the purse strings are loosened. I could rehearse all his good qualities, but I’m sure you are familiar with them. We won’t know until he retires whether his best days are behind him, will we?
βItβs not a sense of sentimentalism, not a reward for services, itβs a belief that we have the best man to lead us forward” says chief exec Gazidis”
I believe that – my assessment of the Arsenal hierarchy has always been that they are ruthless when it comes to the welfare of the club.
Normally Arsene waits until there is a year to go before deciding whether to renew or not, but perhaps IG has had wind of other clubs sniffing around and wants to tie him down.
Lars
Yeah, I read that too. So ridiculous apparently, that they didnΒ΄t even bother making the offer that they had prepared.
And if we are taking the Greedy Badger at “face value” then itΒ΄s not about the money….
So, what the hell were those demands?? IΒ΄d love to know.
And finally, a reminder that he would be nowhere without AWΒ΄s continued faith.
But enough…. he is not relevant to AFC any longer. IΒ΄d rather support and take the word of someone who is committed to the club, warts and all, than an ingrate that has done far less for the club, and has been just as much a part (if not a whole lot more) in our failure to win a trophy recently.
@ 108 Goonertown
βWe wonβt take a gamble on him, especially because of his history.β
Phew! That’s what I wanted to hear!
My guess as to the outrageous demands?
IΒ΄d say having a say in signings and tactics. Just going by his previous comments about Van de Fart and Affelaly etc….
Guess weΒ΄ll have to hope AW writes a book… π
@ 105 Lars
yes, yes, yes!
This is what I keep saying to people – every manager has good and bad points, blind spots, habits etc so you have to judge them holistically. AW is he who is and you can’t transplant bits of him into someone else or vice versa. I don’t like every single decision AW has ever made, but overall I think he does a wonderful job and is still the best manager *for this club*.
Totally agree with the bit about Steve Bould as well. Bould deserves credit, and he has brought in new ideas but the players have said, they spent practicallly the whole of pre-season working on defending! And for me, the crucial component of the defensive improvement (long may it continue) is that the midfield and forwards are doing their jobs in that department. AW takes the drills for the forwards and Banfield does the midfielders. They can’t be doing it on their own, they must all be working together on an agreed strategy and tactics.
Right, back to work!
Great comments today.
FG @ 112
I wouldn’t mind Ramsey standing in if Diaby is rested. His performance against Liverpool was ok. The only thing I ask of Rambo is that he does not attempt to shoot if we have less than a two goal cushion.
Drinks all round! π
Afternoon all
I doff my cap to the magnificent Hillsboro’ posts of the past 24 hours or so. Every one of them reinforces in my mind the class and passion of our supporters. Please take a bow one and all.
Clive, really enjoyed your tale too. It was before my time but I have experienced the odd rowdy night at Highbury to understand exactly what you were describing. It brought back some fantastic memories for me too. Have a ‘finest’ and freshly squeezed orange juice on me, sans pips.
Lars @ #105.
Didn’t know you dabbled in genetic science applied to dog-breeding.
Shall we now address you as Dr.L? After all, this place needs more medical staff and profs π
An update on Santos:
http://www.london24.com/sport/arsenal/arsenal_star_charged_with_dangerous_driving_1_1515001
TS, I have not dabbled in dog-breeding but the missus is as passionate about dogs as I am about the Arsenal so I have picked up a piece or two of knowledge as an innocent bystander!
Not sure I deserve the title of “Dr” yet, but the again doctors are said to make a lot of money which might come in handy on that dreaded day that I will have to settle my tab in this bar…
Very well put at 105 indeed, Lars
Excellent point Dr.L! π
Re: Ollie @97. You now qualify as an official IT genius. π
*Mini Boilk*
Thanks all for your best wishes, an afternoon tipple of your choice is awaiting while I sip on this blender glass full of BM and try to digest various pig and grease concoctions.
I havent been here for years but I heard Fungunner was posting so I decided to check out the blog and I have to say I am disappointed at myself because I have been missing alot of great stuff and it feels good to be back.
I cant say I understand what it must have been like for the Hillsborough 96 and their families and friends but having attended games in one of our stadia (Kenya) where gaining entry to the stadium took about 4 hours in the queue as only afew gates were open, and fans getting impatient the closer the minutes struck to kickoff I can understand the feeling. There was a stampede once and about four fans died. It was the scariest thing I have ever experienced while attending a game, luckily for me I was already in the stadium when it happened but my family and friends were distraught (since they know I rarely miss attending games) trying to reach me on the phone but couldnt due to network issues. It took that episode for the stadia management to start opening and operating more gates to reduce congestion.
May those that lost their family and friends gain comfort in knowing that it wasnt their loved ones fault that they perished. Hopefully more can be done to ensure those culpable pay for their mistakes.
Welcome back firstlady, a great post.
Classy dig from Le Boss…
Walid Arsenal β@1Walid1
Reporter: van Persie didnt want to extend, is there a chance you wouldnt want to enter into talks at all? AW: No. I’m an Arsenal man.
Welcome, First Lady
Lars mate @ 105,
I have to disagree with you on both the Pep and Bould influences:
In relation to Pep, the very first thing he did was sideline Ronaldinho who was regarded as almost untouchable at Barca at the time. He was a wonderful player, but he had no interest in working off the ball. This sent out a very loud message and resulted in all players who then played for Barca worked their socks off – no more so, than messrs Xavi, Iniesta and Messi. Their workrate and style of play is truly remarkable and is something every aspiring midfield player and team should aspire to. In this context, Pep’s influence at Barca was most telling. Contrast this to the many wonderful players we see playing in other teams who don’t put a shift in? ( And we wouldn’t have to look too far away from home in recent years to figure that one out)
In relation to the defensive front – Steve Bould’s influence is plain to see from where I sit from the games we’ve seen so far this season. Not only are the back four more solid in set pieces and general play – the overall shape of the team, especially when we loose the ball is a joy to watch. I have been critical on this site as to why this had not been achieved much earlier, because I genuinely believe we would have alot more silverware to show for our efforts if this was addressed. And yet here we are, 3 games into the season – and not a goal conceded…!! And this is after playing, or should I say dominating, teams like Stoke, who have always rolled a few past us in previous years.
The real question it begs, if were honest with ourselves, is why has it taken so long to get this right..?
Bould obviously knows Keown and I’ve no doubt they’d have spoken before Bould took the No2 position. It is my belief that Bould made it clear that he would only accept the No 2 position unless he had real input into how the team played. And the results are so evidently plain to see……now instead of seeing full backs bombing up the wing and leaving the team exposed to counter attacks, they measure themselves more carefully. That push-pull contraction between attack and defense has real shape and nous. And what’s more – it’ll only get better!
This is new. This is something thats been (inexplicably) missing for quite a few years to my mind.
You cannot assert that you are perfectly capable of coaching a defense and then ship 49 goals in a season without a penny dropping somewhere in the backround.
I don’t doubt the mans honour, his integrity, his wonderful vision, uncompromising style and overall contribution to the club. He’s been wonderful for the club in so many different ways. I just feel he took on too much in the past and this year he’s stood back a little and delegated.
And y’know what, I think we’re a much better team for it, despite loosing a top class centre forward in the process..!
Joe, cheers for your reply. Pep did indeed get them to work hard (and I should have mentioned that in my post), but I disagree on Ronaldinho because he pretty much took himself out of the team by misbehaving quite badly.
And I did of course not mean that Bould has had no effect on the defending. He is doing the job, but he would not have done it unless Arsene had wanted him to so I guess what I am trying to say is that it’s a joint venture. We also started improving our play on set pieces a year before he got the job, we were actually one of the best teams in the league defensively on set pieces last season so Bould is also building on what was already started.
But let’s not argue over details and please don’t feel I am trying to say Steve Bould has nothing to do with it because he certainly has but it’s not all down to him, I believe.
That push-pull contraction between attack and defense has real shape and nous. And whatβs more β itβll only get better!
Let’s definitely hope so! I suppose the biggest test will come once we do concede a goal, will we panic and revert to old sins or will we shrug it off and continue as if nothing has happened? And will we be able to keep such a straight line if the BFG isn’t there to marshal the rest of them? Will we have the patience to not attack like headless chickens and expose ourselves to counter-attacks if we find ourselves trailing in a game? Etc etc etc.
Questions, questions… π
Joe and Lars, I have a feeling there are elements of truth on both sides of the Bould argument, making you both right somehow. But I know that seeing Bould’s bold (sorry) new influence on the bench gives me greater confidence than seeing Rice over there did in the last few seasons.
Also bt8: Bould is not just bold, he is also bald.
@ Lars – I know Amy Lawrence claims outrageous demands were made, but unless she is prepared to say what they are, she may as well be claiming Santa Claus is real. Pardon my cynicism. π
Back to trivial matters, it’s quite scary that with the new Eurostar points sytem going through its first full year (got in last year in March, by which time I had already racked up quite a few points in the old system), I still haven’t reached the tally to remain a ‘frequent traveller’.
I should be OK before the end of the year despite the Qatar trip, but it’s still quite remarkable.
They really only want business customers, eh?
Interesting, and somewhat unusual:
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8075203/Wenger-Reckons-Sagna-Will-Stay-At-Arsenal
Whereas
http://www.francefootball.fr/#!/news/2012/09/13/170820_wenger-j-ai-parle-a-sagna.html
mentions option c) from ‘holic’s post.
βI think that an employee or a player must defend the company he works for. If heβs not happy, he must go somewhere else. I spoke to Sagna about this. I think he loves the club and he will stay. The interview doesnβt really reflect his views of the club and his love for it, because hβs always shown his commitment on the pitch. Itβs far more important than a βtwistedβ article in a newspaperβ.
I have to say the amount of actual work I have done today is very close to zero π
Booked my trains for Schalke though….
Where to in Qatar Ollie? I spent a memorable, and interesting 7 months there in aaaaagh 1984 commissioning a computer system at a couple of electricity/water installations in and around Doha. I made the mistake of making myself, if not indispensible then at least hard to displense with, so ended up making several more trips of between a week and a month over the next two or three years.
To judge from Google Earth, one of the sites is now quite built up. If I ever went back, I’d be able to say, in all truth, “I remember when it was all desert around here”.
COYG
Wotcher, Firstlady – lovely to see you! Intelligent and thoughtful as always.
***
Going back to the discussion about defensive improvement, first a general point – just because something has not been fixed does not mean it has not been addressed. Before the hell that was the ManUre match last year, we were experimenting with a new marking system, and similar noises were being made in the Goonerverse about our defending looking better.
Secondly, let’s not overlook the changed personnel. Arteta is THE most disciplined midfielder. Podolski is the best defender by a mile of any of our forwards. The backline squad, starting last year, showed the “thou shalt not pass” attitude which many had been crying out for, but the organisation was not as evident and they were let down by players ahead of them. The players we have now contain a critical mass of personalities who are focussed on the defensive part of their duties, it seems to me.
***
@ 136 Ollie
ha ha – join the club!
Except I haven’t booked for Schalke.
Sorry Fun, I missed your posts directed at me from previous blog.
I’m sure the Theo situation was done to death while I was away, so apologies if I’m rehashing points that have already been made. I’ll agree that Theo is an established player, but I don’t think he’d be that difficult to replace, from our current squad Gerv or the Ox would probably suffice. As for the losing three players argument, I personally don’t think it would make that much of a difference. We’ve basically got a brand new attacking spearhead already with Carzola, Poldi and Giroud, why not go the full whack and say goodbye instead of letting it drag on after the window and increase the chance of him leaving on a Bosman, which not only means that he’ll go for nothing, but his head won’t be in the game as he’ll be more focused on his next pay check.
As for the Saggy Coq Monologues, even though I think you make a fine point regarding Ox I’m afraid, like TaBS we’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree, players say stuff to the press, that’s just the nature of the beast and with todays 24/7 worldwide coverage everything anyone says is going to be scrutinized under the microscope, some will take offence, others won’t.
So Wenger is being another mega buck contract eh?
1. What has Wenger done to deserve yet another contract extension?
2. Has he shown that he can adapt let alone compete and win stuff in a footballing landscape that has changed dramatically in the last 6 years?
3. What is he going to do differently to change things at Arsenal?
Its scary how the board are so scared of changing things at Arsenal. Well,if all you want to do is being another also ran go ahead.
But this is soo very disappointing. Wenger has NOTHING.. Absolutely NOTHING to prove that he is the best man to lead the club back to glory.
@ H2H
No worries, thanks for responding. Re Theo, ultimately you may be right, I was just pointing out that it was a complex decision and there were other factors to take into account.
As for the Saggy Coq thing (ha) ABB, ‘holic and Arsene agree with me, so I’m ok with that. π
Doha, Oxon.
Don’t think I’m anywhere in the new job at a level I could make myself hard to dispense with.
I’ll be just happy if I can even make myself useful, really.
Everything’s confusing though, as I’ve vaguely done stuff on GSM(2G) this summer, then did some W-CDMA(3G) trainings last couple of weeks, and have some LTE(4G) coming up, but this is GSM (but with IP stuff).
But we’re at a stage where even as a team we’ve got to take any job that possibly comes our way (in fact, I think my boss is doing well in that, I think this new boss, while not quite the old boss, is a good boss again).
And hope that the company doesn’t fold over the next year or two. Frankly, the future is very uncertain, but it would be absolutely shocking if a once great company were to go under. Sadly, it’s far from impossible.
And heh at the last bit. π
heh FunGunner at 139, I was wondering about that part π
Heh @ Ollie @ 131
π
Ollie,
I wasn’t at a level where I should have been indispensible either.
One of the best aspects of the original 7-month tour was that the company genuinely seemed to believe what they’d told us about it only being 3 months. To that extent they put us up in the Ramada Rennaissance rather than some crappy contractors camp as they normally did for longish term stays. When they wised up after a few months and suggested we might like to live somewhere cheaper for them on the same pay, we all said that we’d rather stay where we were thank you very much. I don’t think they even bothered to ask me for any of the other trips.
Another happyish memory is of the night when I decided to walk the quarter-mile to the shopping centre café for my evening meal. This involved going around a corner with a bank on it, but I decided to take a short-cut through the car park. Out jumped an armed guard who had some difficulty believing that anyone would voluntarily walk that far.
I look forward to seeing your report of Doha in 2012 when you get back. Or maybe I’ll make it down to the Tollie one weekend and you can tell me in person.
COYG
FG
Can you actually prove that Arsene agrees with you?
Heh! π
Interesting analysis of Arsene’s words there Fun !!!!!
And there was I thinking i read the words “twisted report”.
Ah well, better get some new reading glasses I suppose.
Ahem “twisted article”
Seems I really do need those glasses.
@ Goonertown
Arsene always agrees with me – it’s one of the reasons we get on so well! π
@ tabs
We (you and I) were not discussing whether or not Sagna’s words had been twisted, but whether or not he should have said them to a news outlet.
The article that Arsene read could have been twisting Sagna’s words, or perhaps he was trying to help save face for the player given the clear and unequivocal reprimand he had just delivered. However, Bacary himself said that the orignal published interview represented an accurate report – as Tom Fox told the AISA Q&A. Fox’s department had called the player to check.
For Fun;
Cos Arsene he knows me
And he knows Im right
Ive been talking to Arsene all my life
Oh yes he knows me
And he knows Im right
And he’s been telling me
Everything is alright
*Any coincidence to the lyrics of a song by a certain artist, who let’s say is not exactly loved by a well known blogger, is purely intentional*
coincidence should be similarity.
One day I may even learn english
I suspect I can guess the singer then, H2H.
And I’m a bit worried you know his rΓ©pertoire so well then.
Nice try Fun, but pretty much wrong on all counts.
We didn’t have a discussion as to whether Sagna should have said anything in a public forum, because we didn’t have a discussion full stop.
My initial comment on Sagna’s interview was aimed at no-one in particular and concerned the collective bed-wetting snot-dribbling hysteria of supporters that now goes on when any statement comes out that can be considered even marginally critical.
I made no comment on whether it should be in the public domain other than to say a blanket ban on all interviews would signify a far greater problem at the Club, than anything a player might say, and that in the circumstances it was reasonable to expect that Sagna would be asked about recent outgoings. I stand by that assessment.
Abb then took me to task on the specifics of Sagna’s interview, and I gave my views as best as I was able. They were my only contributions to the debate.
As to your second paragraph, I think it better to draw a discrete veil. Interesting that you interpret the first 3 sentences as a “clear and unequivocal reprimand” with zero evidence and yet ignore the fourth. Any seasoned Arsene observer, and cognizant of the way he works as a result of from many tales from a host of ex-players, would put a stack of money on it being a quiet intelligent word rather than a “reprimand”, but either way it is complete supposition. I also note that you put your own spin on what Arsene meant when he said “twisted article”. Total supposition.
I apologise for the somewhat cursory nature of this response, I appreciate your contributions and more often than not agree with you, but I do get irritated when people (wrongly) tell me what I have and haven’t said.
I will also confess that my mood is not the best. Having worked my way through the best part of The Hillsborough Report I am fuming, and that is probably reflected in my tolerance levels.
Drinks for all. Real football in less than 48 hours.
It worries me a bit too Ollie, it’s one of the dangers of my trade though. I’ve spent the vast majority of my working (and social) life in pubs, clubs, discos and bars, there’s always music on in the background and most of it’s crap. π
====
I know your angry TaBs sir, we all are, we’ve been lied to, bambozelled, hoodwinked even, by those who were charged to protect us. 23 years is far too long for this to have been swept under the carpet, but now it’s time for the healing to begin. Please accept a drink from me.
H2H, you are a wise man. Cheers for the drink.
Apologies to all, and especially to Fun, for the unnecessary rant.
Sajit @ 141
I agree he has abolutely nothing to prove, yet somehow I think you and I meant this in different ways….. π
tabs, I am supposing on the other hand that your tolerance levels to alcohol are unchanged?
To be assessed on Saturday?
Sadly I won’t be able to stay late as I am daytripping.
daytripping?
I thought that was Dr FΒ΄s job.
Yep Ollie, unchanged and ready for further assessment! See you Saturday! π
I delegate during the day H2H 8)
Heh.
Sweeper – more scary stuff @95.
Funny though that all that old fear and danger becomes part of your fabric and in some way just strengthens your ties with the club.
Wouldn’t want those days back though.
TS – a couple of all too rare appearances in the bar up there. You must get back in more often.
And so, it’s nearly Saturday. It’s almost time again. Seems like an absolute age but now it’s almost here.
Strictly Come Dancing returns this weekend !!!
Evening chums. Strange one too. Just recorded the Arsecast for tomorrow, and when it was over I thought I was probably the most negative one on there.
I must be pining for the fjords…
I’ll see you on Saturday Tabs, maybe not till after the game, but I will see you mate.
BtM, if you are looking in, check your personal mail account. Just dropped you a line about a mail I have received from the delightful…
Saturday Esso? Excellent!
Trev@165: heh!
Strictly Come Tollie Brolly, is what I am aiming for!
Now, in the absence of the lightweights from north of the border on Saturday, what time are the throng preparing to assemble and I shall plan my journey accordingly…
1pm for me ‘holic.
Although I need to check if that’s actually the train I’ve booked.
Speaking of which, I need to send you an e-mail.
Although I need to check rail enquiries first or something as I had just checked things but not written anything down in fact.
You have mail, Ollie π
But I see I have mail already , heh!
Ha!
Arsecast tomorrow hey?
*packs headphones before forgets*
Around 1pm for me Holic. How long can I make one half last ? π
Holic, my intention is to be there pretty much at opening time!
45 minutes, usually, Trev.
*gets coat*
I’ll save the arsecast for the journey on Saturday.
Are you flying in the Morning or tomorrow, Lars?
Hell yeah, let’s go for 12.30 and i’ll have a pint ! π
Jealous
12.30 sounds good.
I’ll buy the pint, unless Lars has it on the table ready π
Ollie, flying tomorrow morning. Will be in London at about 9.30.
Good stuff, Lars.
Safe flight!
Cheers Ollie, see you Saturday!
Holic, I’ll see what I can do about that pint…
Re: Ollie and Bould being bald. That makes two of us. No, not necessarily Ollie and Bould, but certainly Bould and me. π
Re: Oxon @146. Good story. And remember, you have to watch out for those dangerous walkers. π
Clive @ 95 & Trev @ 164….. I remember the game well. Official attendance was about 68000 but I would guess at another 5000 on top of that. I was in my usual place at the clock end…packed like sardines we were – apart from the bravado & innocence of youth, it was not unusual to be like that as travelling to work on the tube in those days you endured similar conditions but on a much smaller scale of course.
Allowing children to sit around the edge of the pitch was indeed a most sensible decision and no doubt saved many injuries and maybe even worse.
The game itself was a cracker….spu*s had just won the double ( the first time in the 1900s), had a tip top team and we were big favourites. ….to get stuffed. Worst of all were the obnoxious & crowing spu*s fans. They tore into a 2-0 lead and we got 1 back just before the break. No chance of a pee break, no one could move and if you were to chance your arm, little prospect of getting back to your position with a view of the game. Spu*s went 3-1 , we made it 3-2′ they went 4-2 and we kept at them with 2 in the last 10 mins for a 4-4 result. That may not seem such a magic result today but they were the team of the century in early 60’s and their supporters claimed the bragging rights (…the spu*s go marching on anthem was heard far too often) and we were in the middle of a long period of being absolute shite. However their short period of dominance was about to disappear as quickly as it arrived and never to be seen again π
Uplympian
re my post @ 95,
As you are apparently my vintage,i was interested to know if your Dad took you to that game against the Spuds in the early 60’s,and whether you remember it.
Let me know.
TS @ 117 thnks mate,somehow it’s just not the same anymore.
The Emirates doesn’t do it for me,nor i suspect does it stir the soul
of the other Old Timers on here,but that’s the price you pay for progress unfortunately.
Trev @ 164,I wouldn’t either mate,but i would still have preferred to renovate and extend Highbury,[ although i realise logistically it wasn’t possible].Hey Ho.
Tabs,I think you need a good book to drag you out of your Post Hillsborough funk.
Have you bought Nemesis yet.??
If not,get thee to a book shop quick smart,you won’t be disappointed.
Cheers
The Sweeper
FG
Sucking up to le boss huh?
Knew it! π
Uplympian you bugger,you beat me to it.!!
Yes it was a cracker of a game,electrifying atmosphere.
Do you remember the start being delayed by about half an hour due to the crowd problems.??
I think it kicked off around 8pm.?? and finished close to 10pm.!!
I think we got home about midnight.!!
From memory,Geoff Strong and George Eastham scored the 2 goals that got us back to 4-4.
Nice one Uply – can you remember much of the team that day ?
Tabs
We’re all family here. I appreciate you are upset right now, but two wrongs…
…my views whoever they are about, are aimed at all players generally. I stopped analysing players statements after what Robin said and then went on to do. As with everyone else I am protective over the club. The people will come and go, but the club will remain, with or without our current model.
I hope you guys enjoy Saturday. I have often wondered what it must be like drinking with supporters wearing shirts containing their forum names.
π
Kicks a ball in anger.
Aims a pinpoint pass at the 835th blade of grass infield of the angle of the penalty box and retires to bed.
Night all.
COYG
Arsene Wenger appearing on many TV stations today as the broadcasters try to put a “Wenger may leave Arsenal” slant on the ‘new contract’ comments.
The Dein inspired outpourings of van Persie and Song were definitely unnecessary and unmerited.
The recent interviews of Sagna and Coquelin were different in nature, and I have no problem with them really.
But after all that lot, did we need today’s disjointed statements on AW’s possible contract extension.
Surely the PR department could have prevented a situation where our chief exec publicly expresses a wish for the manager to extend, only for the manager to come out and say he’d rather not think about that just yet.
It will probably all turn out just fine but did we really have to put another contract issue up there to be shot at right now.
Just a wittle chip…..
Clive…..great minds think alike ;-).
Clive & Trev…the start / thereby finish was delayed but I lived a 30 min walk away so no problem getting home. My dad wasn’t a local or a footy fan…it came from my mothers family who were born & bred…so I always went with my mates. By 1963 I was already earning an honest living -does that make me even older than you?
Back to the game, I remember the goals were from that great scottish englishman Joe Baker, Geoff Strong and 2 from the fabulous George
Eastham (my favourite). Also in the team was a young Geordie Armstrong, Ian Ure(inal) and another great crowd favourite of that time, Scottish winger Johnny Macleod plus a rare return from injury of Perry Groves uncle (Vic).
Booooom
Thanks for the through ball Uply.
Nice lay on
Stands there confused while the crowd are cheering..what happened, I was just reminiscing with my mates. π
Oh thanks for the assists Oxon, Trev & Norcal. π
Someone tell Uply he scored !
And tell Goonertown he didn’t. π
205 Trev….I’ve scored..ah memories again ;-).
Goonertown I’m sure you prefer getting the Tabs goal 201 π
Hi Norcal, do you live any were near Mount Shastra…I had a cousin living there in the 80s & 90s.
Goonertown whipped off his shirt and ran 80 yards screaming like a schoolgirl, turned around and saw the rest of the team in a pile on top of Uply.
Yes Uply. Live at the base of the foothills for Shasta. “City” named Redding. Beautiful area if you like nature. Lakes, mountains, rivers.
Not very close to anything else though.
Trev,
βIt will probably all turn out just fine but did we really have to put another contract issue up there to be shot at right nowβ
Yβknow β I see your point about this and I have to say, while I too was a little taken aback by the conflicting quotes of both Gazidis and Wenger, my own read on the situation is as follows:
Wenger will never leave Arsenal.
He is Arsenal.
Itβs his lifetime work.
And why would he leave when:
(a) the commercial deals are about to catapult this club into a better financial position and
(b) The potential impact of Financial fair play is going to have real teeth (supposedly), enabling him to compete on a level playing field.
No I canβt see Wenger leaving prematurely.
He will want to secure a CL title.
His legacy deserves that at the very least.
Then I think, he will go.
Not until then.
π yes Norcal
Joe,
I don’t think he will leave either, but why didn’t the club simply find out his position before Gazidis made it a public issue.
In reality it’s nothing., but the press will doubtless feast on this ‘possible crisis’ leading up to Saturday’s game.
But a giant “MEH” at international football, the press, shit stirring agents and, of course, Slur Chewy McPurplenose, cos we finally have another game in less than 2 days.
‘Night All.
@ 154 TaBS
I’ll respond properly another time – today is not the day to have arguments about who said what.
Enjoy the game and the company at the weekend. Pint of Guinness, if I remember rightly? There you go.
Joe / Trev…re AW contract re-newal you can also add that he has total control over all football matters….probably more so than any comparative manager enjoys. And oh……Β£7 million a year might also hold a little sway π
I’m with Joe – he won’t leave until he wins major trophies again (ECL / EPL ). I think he might walk though if he received intolerable abuse from supporters if matters regressed to the level of the worst parts of last seaon – fortunately don’t see this happening with this squad.
“I stayed too long at Manchester United.”
I think we should get used to hearing this sad and sorry refrain. If we have any luck.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19593030
Little need to read further than this about the Sagna situation, for the time being at least:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/13/barcary-sagna-arsenal-sales
@Trev 198- reading between wenger’s lines in arrivals and departures
1. ”he loves the club, he will stay” when he says this, its likely to mean ooh bloody hell, we r losing this one too
2.”we are looking for one or two, if we get quality…” its tricky here, he’s keeping option to buy open, but he is stingy in spending, ‘stingy’ and ‘spending’ dont go 2gether when buying quality…
3.”he is not a player we are looking at” this statement can never be mistaken for ‘maybe’, he really means it!
4.”we are working on it, the deal is far from complete” here, it means he doesnt want the deal jinxed but we have another one coming in!
Lets just say le boss speaks well if can understand what he is saying
I’ve just completed my morning back-drink.
Reading all the anguished analysis of the reporting of Arsène and Ivan’s latest pronouncements, following so soon after similar treatment of statements from Coquelin and Sagna. It struck me that some here might be interested to learn of a revolutionary approach to these things that has helped me sail through all the speculation relatively unscathed.
I suspect that I could make a fortune by selling this idea by means of a full-scale internet campaign featuring amusing cartoons and teasers revealing how you can keep you head whilst all around are losing theirs by following this one weird trick. However, out of a wish to help humanity, I will share it with you for absolutely nothing.
My method has been…
Just don’t read the crap. When you see the headline “More shock departures from Arsenal around the corner” or “xxxxx says van Persie was shabbily treated at Arsenal” or “Sing-a-song-a-sixpence at the Emirates”, skip the article. When you see a drink on this very site that mentions how stupidly up-and-coming player A or established player B has shot off his mouth about recent events, or how senior manager Y shouldn’t have said such-and-such about club official X and ends with a link, don’t follow the link.
Most of us have some idea about how we believe the club is run and what’s likely to happen over various people’s contracts. The only difference between us and most journalists is that we aren’t paid to sell newspapers by passing on our ideas. Put differently, most journos know no more than we do. Smile, snarl or shrug at the headline according to personal test and pass on.
Now, where’s that checklist… Ah yes:
1) Backdrink. Done
2) Morning rant. Done
3) Go to work. Bugger
Have a good ‘un one and all.
COYG
Pins first for me on Saturday. Might not make the Tollie before the game, but will definitely pop in afterwards.
Major absence pangs going down here.
Lightweight or not π
Good advice Oxon! π
Great post Holic and an equally amazing write-up from tabs from the last bar. Thanks for all of the personal stories giving better insight for those of us who haven’t been on packed terraces.
I’m still plowing through the 389 page Hillsborough Independent Panel report at the moment but I managed to read a lot of the news reports describing public reaction to recent developments.
I must say, having had my perception of the whole disaster tarnished by the media’s presentation of the events that unfolded I can’t help but feel guilty for being so gullible and angry at the authorities for allowing such a thing to happen and then blaming it on the victims. I also feel a profound sadness and pity for those who lost their loved ones and had to listen to people tarnish their names and make jokes at their expense. Hopefully tribalism stops and football unites on the issue of getting justice for the 96.
***
@218: Nice advice Oxon. Unfortunately for me, I’m a clickaholic…
Holic
Covert comms….. π
“He will want to secure a CL title.
His legacy deserves that at the very least.
Then I think, he will go.
Not until then.”
He’s here beyond the grave then.
Oxon @218
Good advice.
I doubt any of it was influenced by the fact that we are:
Back…..in……action….
…..da fooking interlulls are over……and….we….are….back in act…..ion!!!
…tion….tion….tion….tion….!!!
Bring on the coast guards!!
Bring on ‘Arry’s ex-production line!
Bring on T-O and Oxo’s ex club!
Bring em OOOOnnn!!
Sorry, tea anyone?
Nonny @ 224 could you imagine that? I can’t without getting flashbacks of the 06 final. That wasn’t that long ago you know.
And it is actually realistic. That is the funny, or unfunny thing, depending upon which way your bread is buttered!
π
Kenyan
“Lets just say le boss speaks well if can understand what he is saying”
I used to say the same thing until my face became purple!!
Trev
Lets just say it took a deflection on the way in. π
Quite rightly, that goal belongs to Uply!
8 Ball @ 215
Micky could have shared some of the glory down at the grove.
Who can forget when he scored the winner against Citeh and then attempted to do…well I’m not sure what he was about to try to do, but then just ended up just doing star jumps!
Fun @213,
Thanks for the drink. I repeat my apology @157, and of course return the favour with a tipple of your choice.
Esso, cheers mate, I shall look forward to that Beer post game on Saturday, and Cheers for your kind words earlier in the drinks.
Thanks also to SteveT, Scruz, Lars and The Sweeper for your kind words. They were appreciated, and it was very remiss of me not to acknowledge earlier.
The Sweeper, You’re right. I must get that book!
TFIF, and TF the crappy interlull is over!
Happy weekend all, and UTA!
It’s as if a veil has been lifted from the eyes.
The dreaded, irritating, irrelevant interlull has finally been put behind us. Β We can look forward to real football tomorrow. Β The even luckier amongst us will gather round a table under a large black canvas, and follow the necessary ritual of separating liquid from (plastic) glass. Β Family considerations prevent me from parachuting into North London to participate, but I will expect the Senior representatives of the Feelgood Foundation to give a good account of themselves. Β Β I will have to content myself with the shuddery movements from some stream or other, with all the frustration that that entails, which will make the sense of absence more acute. Β
Have to say, I have been impressed with what I have seen so far of Southampton going forward, and it will be interesting to see how our new miserly defence cope, as I personally think it is way too early to consider all the defensive faults of last season to have now magically disappeared. Β But I do expect us to score, and I am going to look for an Arsenal win and Giroud to score, as a home for the zico five-spot. Β Maybe someone can tell me what sort of price I might get? (Gaming websites are frowned on by our IT administrators at work).
Lars, et al:Β
You lucky, lucky bastards. Β πΒ
Have a good time at the match fellas. I’ll be there in spirit(s) π
Will be a hard match I reckon. Didn’t we draw 1-1 with them during the preseason?
I’m in London, that makes me happy π
Dr Z , you will be missed.
As for odds, no idea if Paddy Power is best value out there, but to give you a guide their prices are …
Arsenal win 4/11
Giroud to score anytime 10/11
Giroud first goal 4/1
Bit stingy methinks.
Are you saying these odds are odd?
Really hope the O to the G opens his account tomorrow but I’m not best pleased with all the pressure being put on him to do so.
I take it people have heard the headlines like ‘Can Giroud emulate legends Henry and Bergkamp by grabbing their first in Arsenal colours against Southampton?’ (I know, you can see why they turned me down for the job of sub editor…)
I can’t help thinking that he won’t score for that exact reason, but anyway who wants to listen to logic? Heart says he will!
Please pardon me while I conjugate some verbs.
I goon
You goon
S(he) goons
We goon
You (all) goon
They goon
They are gooning
They have been gooning
They gooney
They were gooning
They had gooned
They had been gooning
They would have gooned
They will goon
They will be gooning
They will have gooned
They will have been gooning
Thanks. All gooned out, for now. π
Here here Camberwell, here, here!!
π
iLars
I live in London. That also makes me happy (sometimes), especially when the sun is shining!
π
10/11?
That’s almost a certainty then π
But what’s ‘arry’s tip, zico?
That was Shite Hart Lane Ollie. π
Afternoon all.
The Uply/G’town goal give me flashbacks to this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGF5-GPtLiE&feature=related
(first 45 secs, but your more then welcome to watch the rest)
Heh! H2H @244 π
Unfortunately for this Bournemouth boy, it is now Dean Court again! π
@ 243
I believe his tip is to avoid entrusting your finances to your dog…..
@H2H: I had a good chuckle watching that vid and seeing Stewart Houston with long hair π
Great stuff on display in our yellow shirts!
Don’t think this was posted before but here’s something for the end of the week relaxation…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6D4Qgr11tQ&list=UUpHOss53fUPxf8Q_GCBj1_Q&index=1&feature=plcp
Product Placement Of The Day
Said Wayne Rooney, in the latest exciting extracts from his latest book, serialised in The Daily Mirror:
‘There’s nothing worse than getting the ‘hairdryer’ from Sir Alex. When it happens, the manager stands in the middle of the room and loses it at me. He gets right up in my face and shouts.
‘It feels like I’ve put my head in front of a BaByliss Turbo Power 2200. It’s horrible.’
You know what’s really weird? The edition of the hairdryer changes from 2200 to 2000, depending on whether you read it online or in the paper.
heh
H2H
This is the reason why it’s good to communicate. π
@226 – I think we’re more likely to have a Zombie Wenger in charge than to win the CL under a living one, I’m afraid.
Not long until beer o’clock now.
That will be two beers.
Hey holics, You probably have listened to arsecast today and seen the team pics that are out. Any thoughts? For Holic, the big question re our upcoming game, was who would replace Diaby. Who indeed. Agree that Woj will get the nod. And what about Per v Kos.? I’m hesitant to change the coaltion for this match. Maybe Kos for Tuesday? Theo looked fit in the pics, so he will probably be available. Back drinking, enjoyed the discussion on Pep and the trip down memory lane by Clive and Uply. And keep those entertaining links coming! First Lady, happy to have you on board (again) read your piece with keen interest. With you, Fun and Delia, the lady gooners are represented quite nicely, methinks.
The arsecast is for the journey tomorrow π
CG 238 let’s hope it’s an O.G goal not an OG that decides tomorrows game π
H2H 244 heh π
Tabs 238 bookies are not known for their generosity;-)
Abb 255 Wolfie may be upset you excluded him π
Didn’t know Andy Goram was travelling tomorrow.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/arsenal-train-ahead-of-southampton-match
Theo is training. Squillaci too, heh.
Nice link Cannons,
I’ve watched that once or twice before but it remains just as good.
Sir Bob was a class act whose talent possibly didn’t get quite as much lauding as it should have done, dimply because he played in a side that included Dennis, Thierry and PV4, even though he was obiously a very different kind of player, but a focal point of the team nonetheless.
It was great to see him back at The Grove, vs Villareal, when his name was sung practically all night.
That’s what happens when you leave the club in the right way, Robin.
H2H @244 – π
Zico, you will be missed tomorrow.
Should make a change from pissed tomorrow. π
Trev, I thought the general perception of Pires was just that he was the most shameless diver in the history of football, or something :O
His talents were many and varied Ollie. π
Keen eye Ollie, as was Nico and Vito. You will be well entertained on your trip, btw. Uply ! π
So, I walk the plank first, eh. Good thing I can swim. Ok, here it goes, my starting 11. Woj- Gibbs-Per-TV-Jenks (must add that I hope Santos gets some action). Ramsey, Arteta, Santi, and Poldi, Giroud, Gervinho up front (just came off scoring, strike while the iron is hot mentality).
Nurse abb,
Are you left handed?
Or did you select your team in a mirror? π
First Guinni much needed. Be ready for a big celebration preview later π
Oh Zico, I’m in the water now, paddling for dear life, surrounded by sharks. π
Music to drink by?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRA33BMkuZE
Trev @ 260
Why put off till tomorrow what you can do today? 8)
No sharks here nurse. Not while Wolfie is around in his red speedos #lifesaver π
Ah Peter Green, 8 ball – sad tale.
If only he had had a role model like Dr Feelgood…….oh π
Hey Holic, Didn’t think you sounded negative on arsecast, just thoughtful ruminating, on your part. As for sharks, might need to borrow Wolfie (explain later). π
Both guests on the Arsecast including ‘holic sounded right on the money to me. Maybe that bodes well this week for the ‘holic pound?
Arsecast made good listening during my workout this am. It made me forget that my legs were sore. Made the time fly by. Very measured responses Holic and ones I can agree with.
Nurse ABB, looks like a good starting XI. AOC to sub in early for Gerv if the swerve ain’t working? Or really change it up with AOC as the link between Arteta and Santi?
3-1 with beefcake Giroud to not only break his duck but to bag a brace.
This was news to me anyway. Nigel Adkins, the Southampton manager, spent 13 years as club physiotherapist at Scunthorpe United before getting the manager’s job there and then moving to Southampton and winning promotions. Admirable, and on the face of it more so than the route taken by someone like Pep Guardiola.
Forgot to link to the story, and Arsene’s comments on it:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-i-admire-adkins-managerial-route
It looks like Ramsey’s chance to shine in between Arteta and Cazorla. He did a good job as a substitute against Liverpool, and substitutes who really do the business are what makes a good team great so come on Ramsey!
cor@249, brilliant stuff. a couple things about pires: 1, he had so many late runs into the box that he finished first time, and 2, he had a lot of scavenger goals. ok, and he had a lot of amazing curls from the left, and a lot of “seeing eye” shots that weren’t fast but were perfectly positioned.
i miss him.
8ball @ 277 Ramsey to start, terrific! Will checkout your link now. Hi Norcal.
He’s the new Tom Whittaker, bt8.
8ball Interesting how these men travel different paths. Nigel must possess a unique understanding to player fatigue (which might lead to injuries). I should pay attention to how he rotates his players. Ollie, had to google him. Good for you!
Ollie / Abb : I also had a look at Wikipedia about Tom Whittaker. Great story and strikingly similar to Adkins’. All, hopefully, except the part about the strain of managing an entire club resulting in heart attack and death at 58.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Whittaker_(footballer)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/koscielny-giroud-has-the-quality-to-be-here
Is this really needed?
Folks, if you need to wiki Tom Whittaker, there’s still a few books about Arsenal history you really need to read.
I would also direct you to that article from Little Dutch that he linked to in his arseblog post yesterday, for some more historical bits, about the chairmen.
http://www.arsenal.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=530476