Yet Again We Bang Our Heads Into The Same Old Wall
Nov 3rd, 2012 by 'holic
One of the good things about my growing up was that I was watching football most weekends in the winter, and cricket twice a weekend in the summer. I was playing mens cricket at twelve. I had a good eye, could score quickly if I got set, and I lapped up the praise.
The thing is, although I didn’t know it at the time, I was already being worked out by the bowlers around the Thames Valley and Middlesex. By the time I was sixteen I went cheaply most weeks caught in the slips chasing a ball wide of off stump. By the time a back condition caused me to call it a day in my thirties I had slipped down the order, and I was still getting nailed outside off stump. It was so dispiriting suffering the same thing with alarming regularity and apparently doing nothing about it.
Over twenty years later I am suffering from deja-vu. First off let me make clear there is no disgrace in losing 1-2 to Manchester United, just as there was no disgrace in losing 1-2 to Chelsea. Both are very good sides, but both results were down to mistakes made by us rather than anything that the opponents did to create for themselves.
Thomas Vermaelen may want to have a chat with the senior professionals around him, and the management staff, about whether the captaincy is starting to distract him in play. Yes, he was exposed today by having to play on the same side of the pitch as Andre Santos, a likeable character but a player so utterly devoid of form or fitness at the moment. The skipper will hold his hands up for both goals, I am sure, but Santos contributed to the first by allowing Valencia yards of space, a fault that repeated throughout.
Those hoping for a spirited response would be disappointed. The make up of the side meant we lacked any sort of pace, the weapon so successfully deployed by our friends and neighbours at the same venue earlier in the season. Now we all know why Theo didn’t start the match, and it was nothing to do with playing for a couple of hours four days ago. However, as the match progressed I found myself considering the arguments at the AGM. We have tens of millions of pounds in the bank and we go to our biggest away match of the season with Vito Mannone in goal, Santos at left-back, and Aaron Ramsey on the right wing. I like to consider myself a relatively balanced individual, but defending that is so very difficult.
I don’t like to start on referees when we lose. It smacks of sour grapes, but I’m sure all will have an opinion about Mr Dean today. I doubt many were surprised when United had a chance to seal the deal from the spot. Fortunately for us the lover of working women of advanced age managed to miss a gaping target. At half-time, miraculously, we were still in it. Andre Santos, doubtless fearing the hook, got van Stapleton’s shirt. Astonishing stuff.
To be fair to Arsene he only gave it five minutes at the start of the second-half before deciding he was cutting his nose to spite his face. Theo Walcott was introduced for Ramsey, somewhat surprisingly as Jack Wilshere was on a yellow and walking a disciplinary tightrope that he would eventually fall off. No complaints here about his red card, although I am very surprised he was not joined by a couple from the home team.
At last we had a foothold in the game, and started going forwards rather than sideways and backwards. United, clearly nervous of the potential addition of pace sat back for a while as they worked out their best response. Had Giroud’s effort slipped inside of, rather than smashing into the post, we may have had a different ending. It didn’t.
The contest swung back their way when Evra got ahead of the skipper to head home Rooney’s cross. Offside against the berk* in the build-up, screamed some. I thought he was just ok. At 0-2 we needed a miracle, but when your best player is Per Mertesacker that in itself tells a tale. Santi Cazorla was the only player close to matching the BFG in terms of effort and application, and he did have the final say with a sumptuous strike curled into the far corner. There was no time to even restart.
If only we could bottle the spirit and effort demonstrated by the travelling support and inject it in the bulk of the side. OK, that song was sung, and we all knew it would be, but along with it came a voluble barrage of encouragement for those in the hideous purple and black. Even at 0-2 only one set of supporters was filling the famous venue with noise.
They deserve better, and hopefully it will be forthcoming in the next two home fixtures. Arsene faces another critical test a fortnight today, one we all pray he passes just as he did in the corresponding fixture last season. Derby day is coming.
PS. I’m sorry, but having avoided it I don’t feel happy to not mention the tackle the CUNT put on a former team-mate who broke his leg twice last year. That should have been a red. There, I’ve said it now.
464 Responses to “Yet Again We Bang Our Heads Into The Same Old Wall”
Darn
Offsides again. Drinks on me.
Top 3
1. Gooners who are angry with the players who hugged rvp should grow up. Just shows that he was popular among players and staff. And Gary Neville type loyalty is a thing of the past. Losing rvp is not just about goals; this showed.
2. Who the hell taught Santos to defend? In school they teach you not to jump into a tackle if there’s acres of space behind you. A real liability.
3. Travelling fans. Class as usual. But what’s new in that?
I won`t watch another arsenal match live until they are top of the league.No matter how many fucking years I have to wait.resolution 2012
Too many players having stinkers for arsenal. Lukas. Santi. Ramsey. Vermaelen. Santos. Only bfg and mannone can go back with head held high.
Jam, relax mate. We are all hurting
Nice post holic.
What the hell was Santos doing with RVP’s shirt? I’m fuming!
I think what hurts the most is that utd beat us without ever having to move beyond 2nd gear. Holic had tweeted that if the 11 showed application we would get something from this game. And they didn’t. We seriously need to go with 2 strikers since this formation is clearly not working with these 11 players
If they want to hug van Persie after the game, fine. Before the game (and during it) everybody in the opposing side is the enemy and should be treated as such.
Apologies to anybody offended by the PS, but I have been seething about it since it happened. I thought having toned down my views of the performance I should leave it unsaid.
In the end I couldn’t.
Grandkids, never use the word Grandad did. Unless the CUNT does it again.
Derby Day is coming indeed. Will this sort of Arsenal side be able to dismissively brush away the tiny tots? I bloody well hope so, for all our sakes.
Nice post ‘Holic. Frustrated in the application.
Total baffled by Santos taking the shirt at HALFTIME.
Teams all hit a rough patch in the year and let’s hope this is our one and only. We need some better effort and motivation going forward. Arteta needs to become vocal and lead. Vermaelen needs to just play the game.
A bigger injection of pace is badly missed. Theo is more effective when teams are not playing with a lead. We miss Gibbs terribly.
‘holic. I am absolutely chuffed that you put that P.S. in.
That tackle is completely overlooked by nearly all the match reports I have read (OK I haven’t read many). It was red-rated all day long.
Cheers.
The PS is right on ‘ Holic. No apology needed for me. Absolutely uncalled for. Late and with no real attempt at the ball.
And a superb write-up, we watched the same game 😉
Drink for you ‘holic.
If you are not averse to it, I’m offering you a different treat today:
Kraken Rum.
@ 10
If it had happened the other way around it most certainly WOULD have been a red card.
I have been exposed to the devil’s drop since mid-day, so I should probably refrain from speaking my mind.
I will take a leaf out of my good friend Baff’s book and say bollox, bollox and bollox again.
Take a leaf out of that book, let it infuse and turn it into a drink.
Cheers Ollie. I didn’t think it was the done thing to moan about it when we have lost, but win, lose, or draw, that was the tackle of a cunt.
Any rum will do 😉
I see zico is suffering the same dilemma about what to say or what not to say 😀
Maybe Santos took the shirt at HT to make some kind of South American stylee Voodoo Doll, although that obviously didn’t work.
Maybe he ate it, he was looking a bit peckish.
Nice anology at the start of your piece, ‘holic, we are indeed looking very easy to suss out and Ol’Beetroot face definetlt has Arsene’s number.
As for the PS, I don’t think even the most PC among us would begrudge you that, it was a disgraceful tackle, although I believe the word de jour is *Berk. 😉 He looked like he was giving lip to LJW too, the Son of Hunt.
Sagna refusing to hug the turncoat money grubbing shit was priceless.
Bac is the man – hes got a spine and thats why i have only his shirt from the current squad. Never forgrt it. And goddamnit AW sort is contract sharpish.
Holic – words of wisdom as usual. A drink on my tab, sir
Im in the cups currently, Tullamore Dew. (putting full bottle on bar. Well … Nearly full.).
Great post & sadly sooooo true.
Same players that havent performed for weeks still get picked! That just about sums it up.
Worst start in 18 years & the worst Arsenal team I can remember in that time.
Shame on all those gooners singing for the last 10/15 minutes – That will make the board & club think we are all happy with this mediocre dross being served up week after week.
At least we used to play good football – not even able to claim that anymore.
When oh when will someone take action??
Oh. And that tackle by the berk on Bac was cynical to the extreme.
I say turn young Frimps loose in that fucker when they come to Ems.
Teach him some manners. Pardon my French.
Shame on all those gooners singing for the last 10/15 minutes
Please tell me that this was a typo!
I’ll drink to you and the travelling Gooners, Holic.
A pox on Manure and all their servants.
Mike.
Repectfully, i disagree with your simplistic insult hurled at AW.
If we were we in the same room- after you elevate sir purplenose over our … Arsenal’s manager!? – would invite you outside the bar for for litle chat.
Now. Lets all cool off before someone gets his teeth knocked down his Bloody disloyal throat.
Excellent PS Holic, if the players could of looked at that Red-worthy tackle, they might of realised that the Dutch Skunk wasn’t on their team anymore and we might be talking about a draw right now.
A word to anybody new to the drinks. No personal abuse of Arsenal people will remain here for long. Make your point without denigrating our own.
Best not use post numbers tonight drinkers. I suspect some will have to vanish in the morning.
Thank you Homer, but we don’t turn on each other in here either.
Not too often anyway 😉
What H2H said at 23. You really can’t be serious.
Or at whatever number (point taken, ‘holic 😉 )
What H2H said at 23.
Our away support is outstanding. They deserve so much more, the board won’t make decisions based on our vocal encouragement.
11 vs 11 today and we still get a point.
Well we all learnt a valuable lesson today no matter what happens Mike Dean is and always be Fergies bitch, That said they fully deserved the 3 points and were far better as they have been for years, We will be fighting fires all season I’m afraid as we just haven’t got the balance or players to win major honours, You all know my thoughts on those running the club so I won’t bore you again with them + I don’t wanna 3 game ban 🙂
As for Van Persie yep he’s a cunt and an un grateful one at that but can you really blame him? I’m still trying to work out them footballing reasons 😉
Kudos again to the away fans, The teams performance was shit lethargic and lacking but you were a credit,
Fuck it Britain at wars on the box as is the breeders cup so I’m of for a glass of vino and a night in front of the box.
A slightly somber evening to you all ‘holics and a fair view of events ‘holic! However, your PS is far too soft for my liking! That cunt’s tackle was an assault from where I was sat! As usual, the away support was immense; well done lads and lassies! 🙂
So,……where is our current side when it comes to its attacking intent? Where has the renowned “Arsenal”, reputed the world over for creating chances and scoring goals aplenty, gone to in the past 2 seasons? Granted, we used to concede more goals than we do now but we are far less likely now to beat the bigger sides with our current lack of blistering and overlapping pace on BOTH flanks! Gibbs’ absence is clearly a serious problem both in an attacking and a defensive sense. Without pace in the side from both the wide midfield men and the fullbacks, the rotating middle 3 midfielders look far too pedestrian and lacking in incisive guile. All the top sides in Europe have such systems and i’m not at all sure why Arsene just doesn’t ensure that his creative central players are given this blatantly essential and critical outlet for their effectiveness in the final third?! The nonsense that I still keep on hearing spouted about our continued defensive failings and fragility just pisses me right-off! That might still be true wrt to our set pieces with respect to the liability that is termed “zonal marking” (which i am yet to fathom why we have adopted this) but aside from that, which can certainly be improved upon along with cutting out the stupid individual mistakes made by the likes of TV5, we still have the best defensive record in the EPL, even with our third choice keeper in-situ; who could also have achieved such at this stage whilst still in ALL competitions?! Our side being competitive is not far off. Get our pace back on the flanks in both the fullback and midfield positions and we will be dangerous going forward and more solid defensively in open play, unlike what most feckers are saying! Our signings have made us stronger and I’m quite happy with our squad, when fully fit. As you say ‘holic, Arsene did make a costly clanger today when we seemed to be getting more of the play in the second, half even at 2-0. Jack should’ve been subbed off as Cleverley was by RedNose to avoid the inevitable red-card, and the clear fatigue he was exhibiting after 16months away from top-flight play! For all that many are saying that Manure didn’t even have to break sweat and are superior to us, answer me this; where would they be now without the *berk? Who’s the one-man “team” now, eh?!
Steve 89, you don’t know what you are talking about re singing we love you Arsenal we do for the last 20 mins. We did that for the 90 up there last term.
You may have missed the chants that preceded that. “What the fuck does he do?, What the fuck does he do? Ivan Gazidis, what the fuck does he do.
Also, “He takes money off us, he takes money off us, Ivan Gazidis Takes money off us.”
You do one.
“Santos contributed to the first by allowing Valencia yards of space”
Is that true? It was Rafael that put the ball in. If anything Santos was too tight to Valencia and as Podolski had allowed Rafael to get behind him Santos was left trying to mark two players. I can understand how Santos could be this season’s whipping boy but on this occasion blame Podolski perhaps (or a least a lack of understanding between him and Santos) but the real blame falls fairly and squarely on TV’s totally inept play.
Still at the bar ordering Coke, Holic. But I dont think we lost to Chelsea and Manure due to errors of ours. I think we lost because we were far poorer than them. Both of them played us effortlessly. SAF was fuming in his interview on why the scoreline was far from the reflection of the match. He came just short of saying that it was a no-contest.
A tipple for all the “glass-half fullers” please bar-keep; they know the real deal! 😎
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/manchester-united-v-arsenal-choose-your-motm?
Another classic ‘Jack Wilshere is Andy Goram’ moment.
Tim @ 30
Our away support were the heroes today – as indeed they were at Reading. In the face of adversity they kept going.
Sadly for them we were playing a team that played better than us today. I honestly don’t think we would have taken a point with 11 men. Our best spell was the 10 minutes before the second goal but bar Santi’s late consolation and that period we made nothing happen up front.
Fergie got his tactics right. Shrek on Mikel, Cleverly on LJW and Carrick on Santi neutralised our creativity. OG was isolated. Poldi was a defender compensating for our ‘LB’ and Rambo grafted with only his early run and cut back to show for his efforts. In retrospect his replacement by Feo was a waste of time and LJW would have been better to go off but AW clearly reckoned he could go longer than 60 and didn’t see the risk of another yellow. Easy to be wise after the event. Difficult to see how to amend it.
What the fuck does he do?
I’ve heard he does a fine job with creosote. 😐
One of your best, in an honor role of good ‘uns, I’d say, Holic. I agreed with every word (yep, even the subtly placed AGM mention). I do take exception to your P.S. I’m afraid. I would have started with that.
When the season sinks into the sun, review will reveal that a defeat by the Canaries was a bigger blow than this. Your comments on the outcome of both Chelski and Manure games are spot on.
My two adds would be:
1. This was a distinctly ordinary Manure team, assembled at huge cost. Their “turkey” content from back to front is substantially higher than Arsenal’s. The FGS and the skunk are the only two who would merit a place in our team. That, of-course, only makes the defeat more disappointing.
2. It is time to spend.
Having watched and winced as Santos has fumbled and fuckedup, while suffering the pain of yet one more long term Gibbs injury, I want a new left back to back up Gibbs. Right now, I’d take A. Hole back for two years while xxxxx develops (Blasphemy. I know).
Every time I see Walcott fail on the basics, I think “He’s not worth 100k per week”. But, you know what, I think we probably have to swallow it, develop him for two more years while Gnabry develops, then if necessary, sell him to the mugsmashers for 35M..
Another pacey striker, most certainly not of the “bargain basement” variety (nod to Bath) also looks to be a must. (Time for Chamakh and AA to go too).
3. I want my Diaby back.
Arsene, please don’t play Santos or Podolski on Tuesday night. Go on, just for me?
Heh, indeed Ollie.
I didn’t vote for (either) Jack, my choice went to our BFG (Mannone close second) At this moment in time Santi’s leading the poll (excl GK), I must have watched a different game.
Agree with your calls there H2H. Thought our BFG kept that score down. Mannone had one of his better games for us and had no chance with the goals. Good saves too.
Vito now in the lead. BFG third. Santi second.
City held by Fat Sam and his Wet Spam. Chelski held at Swansea. Spuds lose at home. Everton ties Fulham. No one really did much today.
We need a good run from here thru December. The fixtures come quick but other than the NLD we don’t play any teams above us. We have already played both Manchester teams away and Chelsea. If we pick up some of our walking wounded we can get some cohesion going forward.
Lets see what the next 28 games bring.
H2H, we’re really on the same wavelength today, I voted for BFG too 😉
Apologies firtstly to Mike. Secondly to the ‘holic.
No place for gooners at gooners. But slagging off AW after all hes done for he club and then lauding sir PN makes this irishmans blood boil (followed shortly theresfter by poor decisions, apologies, and i hope some leeway in the bar).
A thousand pardons to the saner patrons. Thoroughly humiliated meself again.
As for those suggesting Wenger should have substituted Wilshere, AW was in a no win situation.
He would have been slaughtered for taking off Wilshere at that point unless he had been able to replace him with a game-changing replacement.
Wilshere plays on the edge. He will get his fair share of cards over his career as he is not afraid to put his foot in.
Because he is English he might get away with it a bit more than others (think Scholes) but that is the way he plays the game.
I have to give credit to Vito Mannone today – I am far from his biggest fan but he saved us from a serious doing.
Dare I drink more? Oh go on, then.
Forget 11 v 11, it was 11 (not including Dean) v 10 from the kick off. Our left side was a gaping hole waiting to be exploited, on todays performance Poldi + Santi barely constitute one player and to be honest it hasn’t been the first time in the last few weeks.
Poldi hasn’t completed a game all season and is looking a shadow of the player we saw not so long ago. It’s come to the point that I hope he’s carrying a knock, otherwise I’m afraid he’s suffering from the same homesickness that destroyed his stay at Bayern. Whatever it is, it needs to be sorted.
Oh yes, and also, a new contract for Sagna is a MUST.
You are probably right Amos. I have only watched the game once, and know the ball was delivered from an unmarked Manc where Santos should have been. He should take the wide man, hopefully with support from little Jack and/or Poldi, and Vermaelen should come across one.
Evening BtM. Thought you may have disagreed with some of it 😉
H2H
I am convinced he is injured.
His “running” looks laboured in the extreme, he’s tentative when he receives the ball, he seems to have stopped playing the game instinctively.
It is a worry whichever way you look at it – either homesick or guaranteed a place when not fit.
Evenin’ ‘holic’s. Succinct write up ar usual, Barkeep. Bit of a poor showing from the boys today — I agree with fellow drinkers who opine that we were second best and sluggish. Also massively in agreement with our esteemed host re the non purchase of various essential staff and RVQ’s x rated “tackle”. Early season optimism seems to have evaporated into the ether and a new sense of reality re our actual standing pervades our collective conciousness. Yes, those “footballing reasons” seem as baffling to me as they did the first time around — van Quisling will of course score upwards of twenty goals for his new employers this term, but little do they realise he is just one reckless tackle away from a debilitating injury, causing him to miss 39 games. I seem to remember most of his injuries were self inflicted while he was under our expensive care.
Just a quick word to all NY/NJ based Gooners — so so sorry to see the fabulous city of New York take such a beating — as a former resident of Rye, New York I would like to say a big “Thinking Of You” to all of you at such a terrible time.
Who gets Jacks position next week?
Zico,
Jack the Lad’s movement was becoming more laboured and he was getting caught out of position. With Anderson subbed on for Cleverley, Manure’s central midfield maintained its pace and hunger in closing down the ball and driving forward. Coq should have come on for Jack to shore that up that up and deal with Rooney’s free role which was the main attacking and creative threat throughout; aside from Santos of course!
Pace! Pace! Pace!…….Pace! Pace! Pace! That’s all that’s lacking in this side on the flanks! End off post-mortem!
Great article as ever ‘Holic, although I feel that you are again writing through gritted teeth (is that even possible?!??!)
I actually placed the following “Spirit totally missing” classified ad in the last drinks but took so damned long to get it typed out that I missed the bit where you published a new article! Normally I would just leave it there for the cobwebs to swallow it up in good time, but I feel that you make some great points regards players that simply should NOT be in an Arsenal shirt right now, maybe not ever again, that I felt it more relevant than before.
So, without further ado, here is a cut and paste of my previous cut and paste!
———————————————–
Hey all. Been back-drinking and, whilst I see a lot of doom and gloom mixed with a bit of positive slant, I have got to be honest and say that this was all so fecking obvious that I am stunned anybody even bothered to feel let down after the final whistle.
Ok, to qualify, here are some snippets of what I said here in these very same drinks yesterday:
“…TV5 and his unpredictable performances are worrying enough with the likes of Shrek and The Rotter playing, but Santos gives me the shivers every time he goes near the ball. Not the good kind either!”
“Theo, I feel, will actually start the game on the bench…So, if Theo is on the bench and Ramsey plays in his place whilst Santos takes up residence on the left hand side of the park, I see us with two potential weak points…BOTH FLANKS!”
“…Fergie simply won’t miss the obvious possibilities that these weaknesses offer and the likes of the Valencia and Young will surely be given orders to stick to the touchlines using their pace to attack the full backs…”
“In truth, we need Ramsey and Podolski to play absolute blinders, TV5 and Per to do their thing and JW10, MA8 and SC19 to take every chance they get to try and thread in Giroud on he counter. I don’t see us taking the game to them at all, in fact I hope we don’t even try, as the spaces that would be left in behind Santos and in front of Sagna could prove to be fatal, but a tight-squeezing, hard-pressing, fast counter-attacking effort may just be enough to get us out of the Theatre of Nightmares with a point or even 3.”
I didn’t need to be exactly psychic to make those predictions, but what truly worries me is that neither does Wenger. Ok, the “tight-squeezing, hard-pressing, fast counter-attacking effort” simply wasn’t there and, although surely Wenger has to make the players want it enough to go out there and do it, the players are the real problem here.
TV5 did NOT do his thing (or maybe, on current form, he did EXACTLY his thing), Ramsey and Podolski did NOT play absolute blinders and the midfield trio simply didn’t seem to have a clue where to go apart from down blind alleys or backwards.
Ramsey at right wing is a complete bollox of an idea that has failed to work every single time that Wenger has tried it so far this season. TV5 is in need of a right fecking SB sized boot up his arse. Podolski is still, it appears, playing through an injury that, whilst it is not being spoken of in the press at all, is clearly real and hampering his play, making him the better part of totally fecking useless for 5 games now.
So, this is what I don’t get…
We don’t buy any players that aren’t “Super, super, duper, pooper, scooper quality” so as not to inhibit the progression of the kids. When we are clearly lacking in three or even four positions today, where the feck were the kids?!
Why was Gnabry not used on the right wing? Could not possibly have done any worse than Ramsey and would have at least provided some attacking threat to give United something to think about down that side.
Why was Jermaine Meade not given a shot at left back? He seemed fairly composed and organised against Reading. Didn’t wander out of position or go missing for 10 minutes at a time like the fat fuck we did put out there today.
Why was Thomas Eisfeld not used in place of JW10? Ok, maybe not from the start, (although I would not have been completely against the idea) but it was obvious that Jack was feeling the effects of his long injury lay-off after about 30 minutes or even when it was obvious we were simply offering the wanker in the black the chance he so dearly wanted and, had the change been made at half time, 11v11 may have been a little more interesting.
And somebody, one fine day, will tell me what Jenks did so wrong that he isn’t even in the running for a shot at left back, let alone right back. Seriously, can he REALLY be as bad as Santos? I genuinely think not.
All in all, very predictable, very one-sided and very worrying. I am starting to genuinely believe that, if we can all see what is going on and see where the problems lie, why is Wenger failing to do the same? Is it time for him to…No, can’t quite say it yet.
But you know what I mean?!
Schalke doesn’t look such a fine proposition right now and crashing out of the ECL at the group stage may well provide the impetus for the January bonanza that is so obviously required, although I seriously doubt it.
I want my Arsenal back…
Heh Ollie @45
I’d say great minds…. but I haven’t got one. 😀
And im sorry but santi c is beautiful little genious.
There. Ive said it. And btw so is AW for buying him!
We need something to make sure Santi and JW learn to play together.
Our problem is not strikers. It’s the fact that we don’t create for those strikers.
I would be tempted to try Ramsey in the Diaby role with JW in the hole and Santi out wide.
Granted, that’s not injecting pace but Santi can go past a LB/RB and deliver a cross to Giroud et al.
Something needs to be done.
I trust AW to find the attacking solution.
What a load of complete bollocks. I was pilloried two years ago when I said Wenger has lost his Midas touch.
We now have money to shop at Harrods but we’re cruising the aisles at lidl. Who’s fucking responsible for that?
Why loan out Bendtner then spend £12 million on a french clone? Wenger used to value football intelligence, now he buys brainless gervinho.
Ramsey at right wing doesn’t work, has proven not to work yet he still picks him there. Can anyone please enlighten me as to why?
Wenger valued pace yet we take to the pitch today with a front three incapable of hurting the opposition this way an leaves the only player who can(who scored a midweek hat trick) on the bench. Why?
A slow painful descent is gathering momentum. Does the club (Stan) have the balls to act or is he as I suspect part of a deeper malaise?
Does anyone truly think we’re heading in the right direction?
Snir@58
“I trust AW to find the attacking solution.”
I wish I culd agree with you but I simply do NOT trust the club, IG or AW to solve this problem because it is one that will require us to invest the better part, if not all, of what we got from the sale of THE ATTACKING SOLUTION!
Everything about the club is becoming oh so predictable…
– Our transfer window “spending sprees” that inevitably see us make a profit.
– Our replacement of the few world class players that we have had since 2005 with, for the most part, second-class goods.
– Our policy of only buying “Super, super quality” players that sees us fielding a team containing:
— A left back who simply cannot defend OR attack
— A central midfielder who, admittedly in lieu of a disgraceful injury by that knuckle-dragging bag of shite from Stoke, is so off form nobody would seriously consider him to be close to the first team central midifield positions his natural position) and yet he is supposedly the answer to our right wing problems, whilst an England international and scorer of the highest number of goals at the club so far this season sits on the naughty step game after game.
— A right winger who is clearly incapable of playing to his best at the moment. Whether that be through a carefully kept secret injury or just a lack of form is utterly irrelevant. Ask yourself, would he get into the Chelski, ManU or Citeh teams playing like that for 5 games in a row? I am not even sure that the Spuds would have him and they are almost as poor as we are at the moment.
— A goalkeeper that would not make the subs bench for 15 out of 20 EPL clubs.
Where is the “Super, super quality”?! Fuck it, I am looking at our subs bench and wondering where the back up to the “Super, super quality” is!
I am also tired beyond belief of all the whining on about the injuries…Oh, the injuries. The injustice of it all. Injuries to Diaby, Rosicky and Gibbs are what? A fucking surprise? I don’t think so and if Wenger actually believed all that crap he was spouting in the press about them being like new signings then he is a bigger idiot than he looks right now.
Like I said…PREDICTABLE.
So why is it that the club is having such trouble with their crystal ball?!
If you’re playing Giroud in the middle you can’t play Ramsey and Podolski as “wingers” because they’re not going to give him much (if anything) to feed on.
Geoff @ 59 couldn’t agree more mate..
What zico said at 51.
Yeah, Gervinho was shit today.
As much as I think RVP is an absolute one, for how many seasons do our ex players have to move to clubs that beat us before Wenger sits down and thinks about what he’s doing?
Nice one Ollie!
Wish I could be more sanguine, but we were pretty fecking poor today. And I won’t be forgiving Santos for the infamous “shirt incident” anytime soon.
Finally, we need the old Verminator back… perhaps the armband should go on walkabout?
Keep Calm Carry On.
BMBD.
Lonestar@67
Agreed 100%. He should never be allowed to play in an Arsenal shirt again after that performance, let alone the way he actually played!
Fucking disgrace to the club. Can we not “Gross Misconduct” his fat arse out the door!?
I like snirs idea about santi out wide and jack and Ramsey n middle right now we have no creativity up front.
Unbelievable pessimism in the drinks this afternoon and evening! :-/
Are we out of the title race or did we just lose another football match after only just a quarter of the season having been played?! We’re still only 9 points behind the leaders for fecks sake and everyone’s dropping points cos no one can defend!
“We can’t defend” allegedly! Who has conceded the least number of goals this season so far in the EPL?! Look it up! Furthermore, we still have our best players to compliment the attack to return! Come on people, is it really all that bad? Is anything actually lost as yet wrt winning trophies this term? Please do enlighten me, anyone?!
Sigh.
That’s all I can really muster.
Thierry Wrightkamp.
He wasn’t our solution. He was merely the one who executes it.
He was the top scorer but also missed the most chances, which means we created a whole bunch, despite not creating at all prior to Swansea at home last season.
Our solution to the gap Cesc left was changing our play from a middle based attack to a wing based attack.
We spent much more time trying to get the ball to the wings and find a breakthrough there rather than try and breach walls from the middle.
This season we’ve reverted to the Cesc style but it isn’t working, which is causing us to pass it around with no incisiveness.
Jack and Santi haven’t learned to play together yet (something you could see in the last two games. The players were looking for Jack and weren’t involving Santi in the game).
If it won’t work then a change of focal point is required.
“Yeah, Gervinho was shit today.”
Lol. He would probably not have been any better. He can beat a man but he can’t cross the ball. If you want to win corners, pick Gervinho. He’d be fantastic for Stoke. 😉
“Finally, we need the old Verminator back…”
The old Verminator was just as bad at defending as the current one. There’s no new or old, it’s just how he is.
heh Nonny.
As far as I can see nobody has mentioned Deans decision to not give Cleverley a second yellow and therefore a red card for scything down LJW in the 55th minute however Dean then sends LJW off for his second yellow no warning for our player but Cleverley given some slack?
Every year we sell the crown jewels and bring in some rough diamonds polish them up a bit and get away with it ie securing Champions League football but this season may be the hardest yet to achieve this, hopefully we will now go on a bit of a run as we need to rack some points up.
Those calling for AW to go are deluded and would like to know who we would get to replace him anyway? He does wonders considering in my opinion his hands are tied behind his back.
Thought the BFG was man of the match and Mannone not far behind and finally Top Marks to the away fans as ever the best in the land.
As for the bankrupts make the most of it as our club will forever be there or thereabouts and does not need to have a dodgy share flotation in New York in other to raise funds to buy the Dutch Skunk.
UTA
Wilshere was let off for going through the back of someone and could have been sent off earlier than he was. Ferguson cleverly took his player off 😉 and Wenger left Jack on to get his predictable red card.
Great opening post by The Maestro as usual and top drinks from BtM (@ 7:18pm) and zico (@ 7:28 pm).
BtM – Who would you replace Poldi with on Tues night? Are you proposing a front three of Santi-Giroud-Theo?
MissBlack – if you’re new to the bar welcome. Always good to see members of TTF in here.
I only caught the first half on a surprisingly stable stream but it was enough to see that only shifting into another gear (which we don’t have at the moment) could have saved us. I’ll sum up as follows:
Negatives:
=======
1.Still toothless in the final third for far too much of the game.
2.The capi is not having a good season and looks very droppable to me.
3.Our decline this season, fuelled by the regular sales of our top players and replacements that just ‘aren’t’, may finally see us finish outside the top 4.
4.The discoordinated mess that is our front three. Lack of form or quality or a bit of both? That might be harsh but we keep chopping and changing without finding the right balance.
5.Can’t be bothered to drone on…
Positives:
======
1.I finally wiped the ‘van Persie’ out of my eyes and realised what a liability my favourite Brazilian is. A talented footballer in woeful form who is this year’s Arshavin.
2.Mannone had a very decent first half and The RHS of our defence.
3.TTF – How loud did they sing “You’re just a fat granny shagger” after he missed that pen? It was the highlight of the game for me.
4.The ‘fear’ of seeing van Staplec*nt score against us is now over and done with. It wasn’t even that bad and we probably need to get used to it. I’m completely over that toe-rag but NOT the decision that allowed him to move to Manure – unforgiveable.
So only two positives really
That’s as kind as I can be. We’re a win two lose two team this year. We’ll do well to turn things around in either the league (i.e. to finish 4th) or the CL. We’re a mile away from being genuine title contenders. We need to invest in 3 or 4 quality players – we all know in which positions – if we have any ambitions in that direction.
A bad day for The Arse. Someone in the management team needs to get a grip or we risk becoming a wealthy version Liverpool. I don’t believe anyone really wants that.
Drinks are on the bar for any who care to join me. Leonard Cohen and The ‘Stones ‘Paint it Black’ are back on the jukebox.
Bah! Humbug!
Evening Holics
Have only just caught up with the game, having been out all day with friends. The score line looks respectable but there was quite a gulf between the teams on this performance.
We looked nervous from the kick-off and Tommy V’s howler in the 3rd minute just added to the hesitancy in our play. We were out-paced, got caught in the tackle and couldn’t find our passing game.We were hustled out of possession. The mid-field was ineffective, Rooney did a great job on Arteta and Giroud was isolated. As for our left-hand side, the less said the better.
How come we were not up for this game ? Where was the never-say-die attitude shown by the lesser lights on Tuesday? What makes me think that the attitude will improve by next Tuesday? I was there at Carrow Road when this present malaise set in, nothing much has changed in the interim!
Dennis only knows where we go from here. Until Gibbs and hopefully Diaby return, we lack the pace and drive needed to be any kind of force in either the PL or CL. Arsene the only two players who deserve their wages on today’s showing are Mert and Vito.
My sympathy goes out to our fantastic travelling support who deserve much, much better.
Sadly my glass looks half empty tonight, most unlike me.However, this is the Arsenal and you never quite know which team will turn up, so the German trip might well surprise us, here’s hoping.
See you all at the Ems next Saturday.
As always COYRs
I’ve only just read Wenger’s post match comments. If he really thinks we had the better chances he is not a very good advert for laser eye surgery
Hey mate Thierry Wrightkamp – just cool it a bit. The day also saw City, Chelsea, Tiny Tots all drop points. Yeah that means a win for us would have been doubly sweet but anyways….And your rant about Ramsey was a bit too much. He is a fantastic player with an enormous workrate – probably the best in our squad. He also gets into very good positions to score from the midfield and he will surely be the main man in our midfield alongside Wilshere in the years to come. He is not a right winger and to expect him to turn into one overnight is a bit too much. And don’t forget he played an excellent game against City in the same position and also played a blinder against Everton away last season as the left winger(or left sided advanced midfielder if you like it proper)
I don’t think this is a time for knee jerk reactions.
Obviously everybody had pointed out the missing Gibbs being a huge problem both offensively and defensively. Also him missing makes Poldi quite toothless owing to Santos’ tendency to drift inwards. But the guy we are obviously missing is the OX. Him playing on the right wing would have given us both pace and variety. Unfortunately his and Gervinho’s injuries have co-incided to suddenly rob us of the pace on the flanks. Theo – well I don’t see Wenger changing his stance on him unless he signs the damn thing. I won’t mind the young Gnabry starting against Schalke though….And Arshavin looks to be finding some form again. Lets get him on a bit early – cause he can play some killer balls through to Giroud.
One thing is for certain – we need to buy a striker in January and for once – I do hope it is a super super quality striker – won’t mind a Llorente or a Falcao(I know Chelsea like to stock them up…).
As far as I can see nobody has mentioned Deans decision to not give Cleverley a second yellow and therefore a red card for scything down LJW in the 55th minute however Dean then sends LJW off for his second yellow no warning for our player but Cleverley given some slack?
Not true I’m afraid Austrian Gunner, LJW was already on a yellow when he made a pretty rash challenge on CvQ, Dean gave him a talking to and let it slide, this was before he showed Cleverly the same courtesy.
SAF pulled Cleverly off, AW left LJW on (lack of options maybe) the rest is history.
Snir,
Even with Cesc, we used to lose to the bigger and smaller sides in equal measure.
The problem with our attacking threat has always been with our flanks and their overlapping runs with pace, or lack there of.
For Cesc to have flourished, as Cazorla surely will do in due time (along with Jack who’s still nowhere near match fit), you need these attributes on both flanks if these creative players are permitted to show their true intelligence. Santi is also superior to Cesc in that he can beat the first man; a very useful trait that the likes of Xavi and Iniesta posses for Barcelona.
At the moment, only OG is providing the movement up front and that tends to be more centrally in the final third. With no cutting runners exploiting the space behind the defensive line and turning the defence towards their own goal, there is little any creative midfielder can do aside from try to break the defensive line himself (welcome to the realm of Lionel Messi)!
The final quarter of the West Ham game when Theo came on should have shown you exactly what is meant to happen when all of our dynamic attacking facets are working as they should. Even the tennis match with Reading, with our second and third string players, managed to eventually employ this far better than the lads did today; and who were we playing out wide in the midfield positions? TW14 and AA23!
Snir@72
“If it won’t work then a change of focal point is required.”
So how is it that Wenger doesn’t seem to see that when we all can?!
THAT is what is worrying me the most.
Nonny, I’ve watched the presser in which he says nothing of the sort. In fact he slates the possession stats as misleading, and concedes Yanited were the better side and deserved the win.
A wire is being pulled somewhere.
Designer Gooner@81
“He is not a right winger and to expect him to turn into one overnight is a bit too much.”
I never said that he should…Wenger did when he continued to play him there, leaving Gnabry and Walcott out of the XI.
“I don’t think this is a time for knee jerk reactions.”
I have to say, I am getting tired of this phrase “Knee-Jerk” that in some incomprehensible way gives an excuse to all the crap that we are being fed by the club at the moment. Knee-jerking is one bad result, hell, one bad season if you like, but this is clearly, after 8 long, barren years watching the best players leave and seeing them replaced by second-class versions or “like new signings” in the cases of Gibbs, Diaby & Rosicky, anything but knee-jerk. This is a real and serious spell of continued decline of a club that, only a few years ago, was going to wrest the balance of power away from ManU.
How wrested did that balance of power look today.
Having the most comfortable (and expensive) seats in Europe to watch a team that had no pace, no heart and no spirit is simply inexcusable.
Like I said, I want my Arsenal back.
Hey Holic, Holic, I just know there is a lesson there of which you speak about your playing days…our lads need to figure out who they are playing for. Maybe they believe too much of the hype. Time to do the walk and save the talk. Can’t imagine what it was like for Vito to see wave after wave of Red shirts coming his way, incessantly, with our lads chasing after them. Pathetic. Your PS does not offend and is not off the mark (but he surely was). Away fans, Vito, and BFG were my only rays of light today. And this here bar 🙂 Santi goal most impressive too 🙂
Sorry H2H I have to disagree if you get the chance have a look at the 2 tackles Wilsheres was clumsy but Cleverleys was no where near getting the ball and should have been a second yellow and therefore sent off before the LJW second yellow which was merited. Dean booked Arshavin for his first offence also.
Austrian Gooner@76
“Those calling for AW to go are deluded and would like to know who we would get to replace him anyway?”
Whilst I would like to say, or indeed repeat, that I am no yet ready to start calling for Wenger’s head, I am intrigued to know why you think that anybody doing so is deluded.
As for replacing him, at the moment there are a few good managers around with proven track records who would jump at the chance and may well bring the fresh air into the club that is clearly needed.
“He does wonders considering in my opinion his hands are tied behind his back.”
What makes you think that he has his hands tied behind his back?
Do you think that he had nothing to do with the decision to sell The Rotter to The Scum?
Do you think that he had no choice but to sell Fabregas, Nasri, Clichy, Song and many others?
Do you think that the board tells him that Diaby and Gibbs will play 50 games each this season?
Or do you think that he is a stubborn old mule who is trying his best to dig himself out of the hole that he and the board have created by buying such talents as Park, Chamakh, Santos and many others?
I know which is startng to seem the most likely and, if it continues, surely he has to go, doesn’t he?
I REPEAT: I am NOT calling for his head, but he himself did say that he would leave if he felt that he could not take Arsenal forwards. We currently stand with the worst points tally after 10 games of Wenger’s reign as manager. Are we therefore moving forwards?!
I love the man for all that he has done for our mighty club, but that is not to say that I will remember the good times forever whilst ignoring what is appears to me to be a gross mis-management of the club for the past 4 or 5 years.
I simply don’t want him to be remembered as the manager that let us slide into mid-table obscurity whilst turning a profit.
Et tu abbs; tut tut! How disheartening. :-/
I would like to say thank you to ‘Arshavin’ for that very instructive video in the last set of drinks. A glass of Grey Goose is waiting for you 🙂 Nite all. Not the end, my no means 🙂
We have lost 4 from 6 and got lucky with Reading and QPR.
I am not a doomer, i am ever the optimist but time for change is NOW.
Since the report from Robson of Wenger and Bould having a spat we have gone from hard working and progressing to a team who look like they dont give a shit.
As good as Sagna Is doesnt mean a form player getting dropped for Him in my book. Jenkinson proved so many wrong and started to look like a good player then, BAM!!!!! Dropped.
Chesser straight back in for Mannone second game in and it will probably happen again.
Ramsey staying in the team when clearly poor. In answer to why Wenger played him out wide.
He knows Ramsey will fail and it will be easy to bring back Gervinhio when fit. If someone plays wide and does the business, Wenger can’t let His project striker walk back into the team.
Santos. Well there you go, most people writing on Forums yesterday said He would cost us the match. The Manager surely must have known this.
TV5 is the most over rated player at our Club. Becuase He looks tough the fans bought into the hype. Give me two Merteseker’s any day.
I think we have some great players at the Club. Better players than the Mancscum but the Manager has lost the players now too.
For once I’m not back drinking after reading a post because there is so many heart on sleeve gooners who drink here I normally change my opinion by the time I post, holic to read that you were that good at cricket was a pleasure.Rooney loving grannies,loved it,but it kills me to think that purple nose doesn’t have to break a sweat to beat us any more is a needle.is it the boss or the players?? man 4man where every bit as good as them no doubt,is it the whole we don’t get bollicings till Monday,why didnt we start playing till the 2nd half?even then utd knew they had us on the rack,if they had there shooting boots on it would of been a cricket score,unreal to drop in the drinks at the time of the game and see some regulars saying were still in it were not getting hairy apped,no offence but I couldn’t believe it.we were always 2nd best today,beat b4 we came out the tunnel and that frightens me.
Designer Gooner@81 (again!)
“won’t mind a Llorente or a Falcao”
As for that comment…Do you seriously believe that Arsenal will even get close to either of those “Super, super quality” players?!
Not a fecking chance!
Start preparing for ZERO strikers to come in during the January window, you will be much closer to the reality.
Ok, maybe we will buy a 14 year old from the island of Yap…;)
ElTel@92
I fear that all you have said there may well actually be correct. Scary stuff indeed.
‘holic, it’s on the BBC website so may have been from a press conference for the written press? He is quoted as saying
“I think we were a bit unlucky, especially with the penalty decision. We had the better chances but overall in a game like this you ought to not put yourself on the back foot when you are one down.”
But later
“We had a lot of the ball after we conceded the first, but they created more chances and deserved to win the game,” admitted Wenger
Thierry @86 Managers with good track records such as who, Redknapp? The only guy I could see is Pep and I don’t think he would be cheap do you?
Have any of these mangers managed to build a stadium such as ours and stay in the top 4 despite not spending millions.
The only clubs that have finished ahead of us in the last 7 years are Chelsea with their billions from Russia, Many City with a bottom less pit, Man Utd who are technically bankrupt and still spending millions on players. Tht is why he does wonders with his hans tied behind his back.
On players if a player does not want to stay at the club he has to be sold end of regardless if you want him to stay as an unhappy player will be no use to you at all and 24 million for RvP or nothing I know which one I would choose.
Every manager makes bad buys there is no given rule that everytime you buy a player he is going to turn into a superstar however AW has done not too bad a job in this department? Henry, Viera, Freddie, Cesc, RvP etc etc.
the club has to make a profit the same as any business or you will have no club end of and we cant do anything about artificially financed teams such as City and Chelsea
Jebus 🙁
Hope when they come to the Grove there is none of this cuddling bollocks going on after what he did to Sagna.
Time to stoke the old fires again.
Starting with that shirt Santos got at half-time. Embarrassing or what?
Nonny@96
“I think we were a bit unlucky, especially with the penalty decision. We had the better chances but overall in a game like this you ought to not put yourself on the back foot when you are one down”
The really, truly scary part of that is not that he thinks we had the better chances, although I shudder to think what game he was watching because it was a very different one to the one I saw, no, the really, truly scary part of that statement are the words “unlucky” and “overall in a game like this you ought to not put yourself on the back foot when you are one down”
Unlucky? Unlucky it wasn’t 5-1, maybe.
As for being on the back foot, we had three players on the pitch that simply should not have been there, one of which spends his entire time putting us on the back foot and yet, incredibly, even though the entire Tintertubes were full of fans stating the incredibly obvious ie Santos is shit and will cost us the game, there he was starting the game, swapping shirts with The Rotter at half time and putting us on the back foot for the entire 90 minutes.
Seriously, playing Santos sends what message out to the rest of the squad exactly? “We know he is shit and Jenks has done little wrong all season, but we are going to play him anyway”?!
Are we hoping he will have a good game so that we can sell him in the January window?
Hollic have to agree on the shirt swap I cringed can you imagine someone like Keown doing that, he would ore likely have ripped it off him stamped on it and wiped his arse with it
Dapper Dan @ 70. Where Art Thou, Brother – you’re singing my song.
TS – I’d start Sagna, BFG, Kos, TV5 at the back. Today’s midfield trio. Theo, Giroud, AA (can’t believe I just typed that) up front. I’d have Eisfeld on the bench.
You can’t blame him for picking his only fit left back because if he’d picked Jenkinson and played Sagna on the left, and the performance had been just as bad, or even worse, he’d still have been slated for picking the wrong team.
The problem is that he bought someone who cannot defend for shit in the first place.
Austrian Gooner@97
Did I say Redknapp?! Obviously not as I would rather lick piss off of a bulldogs sweaty testicles than have that twat managing our club.
The world is full of managers, Pep is not the only one. Or do we only get to look at managers that are unemployed?
Wenger was employed when we approached him. Relatively unknown too.
As for Guardiola not coming cheap, do you have the slightest inkling how much we pay Wenger?!
As for the clubs that have finished ahead of us, you can include Birmingham “relegated the same season” City in that list as they took the Carling Cup after another risky turned disastrous team selection for the final.
How about Liverpool, the Spuds, Leicester City (twice!), Middlesboro, Blackburn Rovers and Aston Villa all winning it since Wenger took charge of the club?
Hell, let’s take a look at the FA Cup, shall we?! Why, even Portsmouth have won that pot ince we last did!
Champions League? Porto, Borussia Dortmund, Liverpool have all won it during Wenger’s reign.
My point is not that we should win all the trophies all the time. My point is that we should surely set our sights as high as the likes of the Spuds, Porto, Villa, Dortmund, Portsmouth and Liverpool, no?!
As it stands we are supposed to be as happy to settle for fourth place and a quarter final or two if we are really lucky.
Nonny@102
Do you honestly believe that Wenger gives a flying feck what anybody thinks of him or his decisions?!
We simply cannot lose sight of the fact that he is paid well to make EXACTLY those sorts of decisions and suffer the consequences, albeit a non-starter in this case as the entire universe and his cat knew full well that Santos could and probably would cause us to hand over a third of the park to ManU today.
If we knew, how come Wenger didn’t?!
As for Santos being our only fit left back…Seriously? FIT or was that a typo and you meant to say FAT?!
And if we don’t like the idea of the perfectly entitled to play Jenks getting a run out against United today, why not TV5 at left back? He plays better there than in the centre on the most recent evidence!
Long post alert 🙂
Well written. I honestly don’t know how bloggers manage to produce well written thoughts after matches like that. I’m fuming on so many levels.
1. All that hugging shit needs to be cut out. They can hug behind doors after the match, but it’s the wrong frame of mind to be in as far as I’m concerned.Santos collecting the jersey at half time was just pathetic. He should be fined.
2. I’ve always felt Vermaelen was suspect and was hoping that he would grow with the captaincy. Sadly the opposite seems to be happening. He’s a liability, alongside…
3. Santos. Nothing to be said about him really. He isn’t a defender and isn’t that great going forward. He makes me pine for Clichy, and that is not good.
4. Podolski. If he is really injured, then bench him. He hasn’t offered anything in a few games. He provides no cover for Santos and doesnt improve our attacking options. What’s happened to the work rate of early in the season?I would start Arshavin on Tuesday.
The Mancs and their manager have got our number. They dont even need to try anymore to beat us. Gulf in class on the pitch, gulf in class in terms of tactics and preparing the team.
The only positive from today came from results elsewhere where the people we are really competing against (Sp*ds, Everton) dropped points.
Let’s add Miquel to the list of players that have shown better form than Santos so far this season.
Hell, wasn’t Coquelin pretty solid in his spell there?!
That alone should keep santos out of the team swapping jerseys at half time,twat.no idea of what the fans feel,even arsene shaking his hand at half time was defeat in it’s self.someone said earlier that our only world class player was sold to them how long before our only hope decides u know what that cunny was right!
Mightyigor@106
“3. Santos. Nothing to be said about him really. He isn’t a defender and isn’t that great going forward. He makes me pine for Clichy, and that is not good.”
EXACTLY! I even found myself accidentally (subconsciously?) including Clichy in my list of players that Wenger has chosen to sell…What does THAT say!??!
Austrian Gooner @97,
Well put my “glass half-full friend”! Well in for the ton! 🙂
BtM @101,
Thee is always around comrade! Always with a half-full glass of the good stuff on such “terminal” occasions! Ahhh, 80 shilling! 😎
Hey Austrian, on a lighter note, we have created more assists and scored as many goals between us as Arsenal did today!
All that was needed was a little “fight”!
🙂
Austrian Gooner@97 (again, again!)
My problem is not so much the bad buys that Wenger makes, those are part and parcel of the management game. No, my problem is with the bad SALES.
All the players that you listed there, and a few more besides, were actually SOLD before they should have been.
I understand the sentiment that says a player who doesn’t want to be here, shouldn’t be, but I also understand that selling the best goalscorer in the EPL to one of your main rivals is the equivalent of scoring an own-goal every game…
Unless that player is Torres, of course 😉
Thierry @103 The world is full of managers so who would you have?
I know Wenger is one of the best paid managers in the world and deserves it in my opinion I started supporting in 1971 if you think this is bad then go back in time
Obviously when I state the clubs that finish above us I mean the EPL not any of the cups, would you have rather won the Carling Cup than getting to the CL Final in 2006?
Nobody can compete with the spending power of Utd City and Chelsea end of, so where do you think the best players will go?
That leaves us to build a team without spending millions and for that you should be proud of the way the club conducts its self we can all buy trophies but they can’t do it The Arsenal way
@102 – No, I don’t believe he does and I didn’t say he does. I simply meant that whatever he did today at left back would have made no real difference. We were dreadful and changing one player wouldn’t have solved any problems.
He should have picked a better balanced front three. It’s odd that players are left out because they’re not considered right to start, but when things go wrong and the patter of the game is set, the very players who were “not good enough” to start are the very ones who get turned to, to turn it around. Happens all the time with most teams and it’s always struck me as odd.
Pick your best team and give yourself the best chance to win the game. That front three was a rubbish selection. The team he picked today laboured against QPR and was never going to be good enough today.
*pattern of the game
Thierry @112 RvP did not want to play for Arsenal anymore that was obvious with his statement so he had to be sold end of thats football and thats life I’m afraid
Evening lads…. (semi sober now)
Since it’s my birthday tomorrow I would like to buy a round for everyone still in the bar and for those who are absent Lars card is always behind the bar so help yourselves!
I believe the first half was way down our quality we had to go behind two to waken a little!
Holic! Grat piece and I would argue why Clverley was still on the pitch after his second! Man U have that notion of having the 12th man as a ref! No wonder!
It’s no sour grapes we lost because we dint put a full shift in if we did we would be travelling back down south with a draw wchih to was more then possible!
And yes he is a CUNT for challenge like that it was a straight RED!
Shame but yes we have hit that fuckign wall again like you say!
PS…. Holic did you get my email?
Good evening,all.
I’m not the type to start dishing out blames and cussing out the board and our manager after a game,i like to look at the bigger picture-both from the past and into the future-so looking at the bigger picture here i’d like to state the following:
1, 99% of us do not know the amount of money available to the club/manager for transfers and so there are chances that 99% of us are blaming the wrong person.
2. More than 99% of gooners do NOT know football players as much as their managers know them,so the managers are automatically in a better position to choose the best 11 every week than 99% of us.
3. Obviously,something is wrong with our dearly beloved club and something needs to be done to make things right at our club,it doesnt matter to me whose Ox (no pun intended)is gored so long as the long term future of Afc is secured i’m happy.
4. Wenger might not be the best coach in the world or even the best in England,he might not make the best decisions for us but i’m convinced he makes all his decisions with the best interests of the club at heart.
Thierry I admit to sell him to Manure was hearbreaking but as wenger said he would rather have sold him to Spain or elsewhere but only Juve were interested and he did not want to go there and at the end of the day with player power it is the player who signs the contract and ultimately decides where he wants to go regardless of who the club want to sell him to.
Thierry @ 111 Agreed 🙂
Cent @119 well in Sir
119 great sense frm cent 🙂 happy b’day to arthur to arther 😉 nite y’all
Hello Arthur, yes I did. Too busy today. Hope to try and work it out tomorrow evening.
Thanks for your help 😉
Well off to bed now fellow Gooners as an hour forward here and at the end of the day at least we did not lose at home to Wigan so onward and upwards and back in the saddle on Tuesday night. Up The Arse
AG
Sorry to be so bunt but this has happened six months ago and we all knew it was going to bite us in the arse like it did today but no one expected that verminator was going to gift him a goal.
I’m disappointed that we didnt show game on attitude after going one down.
Ramsey on a left flank was a complete joke in my eyes!
Either way we didn’t put a shift to win the game end of!
Austrian@113
The problem with going back in time is that we are going back to a time when we weren’t the most expensive club in Europe to go and support, we weren’t paying our managers the highest levels of salaries, nor the players and we weren’t constantly claiming that the massive profits we are now making are there to spend…and consistently failing to spend anything at all in terms of the net figure.
CL final or CC trophy? Hhmmm…Why does it have to be one or the other?! Surely what we did in the 2006 CL final should have little or no bearing on what we should do in a domestic cup final years later?
Another point there is that in 2006 we were competing for the greatest prize in club football and almost got our greasy little mitts on the cup too…Now we are competing to actually get into the competition in the first place. Is that progress?
As for not being able to compete financially with Utd, Citeh and the Chavs, that argument, whilst pound for pound is correct, holds no water when you consider that Hazard was on our radar for a good couple of seasons but we simply wouldn’t pay what it took to get him. £70m in the bank all shiny and ready for Wenger to spend. Do we honestly believe that £70m well spent wouldn’t see us having a totally different conversation right now?
We lost Ashley Cole over a few grand. Best left back in Europe would have slotted nicely onto the team sheet today, would he not?
It’s the same with arsenal holic we’ve also slipped down the order and likely to stay there because we won’t or just can’t do anything about it.Wouldn’t it be great to have a berk*in our team oh wait we used to.
Nonny@114
I have to say that, having gone back to check my original post that you originally replied to, I was actually picking at least 3 players out of today’s line up that simply were not and never really were going to be at the races.
You focused on Santos, so I responded accordingly.
I agree with you 100% that just changing Santos may have made a difference, although I am not sure that SAF or Valencia would completely agree, but I never tried to make a case for it all being the fault of one name on the team sheet. I made a case for almost a third of the team being simply bad tactics and another player (Wilshere) probably not being the best decision to start or try to finish the 90 minutes.
One of my points is that we don’t buy players to back up our 1st XI because we don’t want to hinder the development of the youngsters and yet we don’t play the youngsters in the 1st XI, we don’t win anything due to our injury list and lack of good reserves (Utd’s injury list is as long as ours as arguably with more important players on it too) and so the quality players don’t want to come. The argument for not buying quality back ups is thus tortalogical and will never get us anywhere.
the best players do not ALWAYS go where the money is…And thank Dennis for that (and Bouldy, Dixon, Winterburn, Keown, Seaman, Patrick, Thierry, Bobby, Cesc, Freddie, Sol (a whole other conversation as to why he joined us and whether or not a player like him would even consider doing so now), Wrighty, Santi, Mikel, Per…etc…)
I just don’t see the good side to the policies currently in place. We don’t compete for trophies, let alone win them. We charge more than any other club in Europe and we don’t offer the quality that price should include. We allow our best players to play for our rivals whenever they open the cheque book and replace them with players that simply are not of the same quality, if we replace them at all.
I love my club, maybe that is why I am so frustrated by what I see at the moment. The club seems to be disappearing before our eyes and business seems to be taking over.
Poor performance, but an unsurprising result.
Not going to bitch and moan about it. We’re in a rut and we need to claw our way out, starting Tuesday.
Thought the BFG had a good game, as did Bac. Our former skipper can go fuck himself.
COYG
Austrian@116 (can I call you Austrian?!)
I understand the old adage about if a player doesn’t want to be at the club he should leave, but surely not to one of our main rivals time and time again?!
Personally I felt that we should have kept The Rotter and made him see out the rest of his contract. Had we actually then gone and made the same moves in the transfer market we may have actually been competing for some silverware this season that may actually have convinced him to sign a new contract next season.
Ok, so if that was too far out of the realms of possibility, why did we have to sell him to Manchester Fucking United?!??!
Correction to 130…
…just changing Santos may NOT…
Obviously 😉
Holic, as I tweeted to you. If you find RvPs tackle on Bac as malicious, I could argue that Jack’s scythe (again wasnt one, jsut badly timed) and Arteta elbowing him in the face were equally bad.
Bac and rvP are pretty good friends off the pitch – based on RvP’s tweets last year.. So I highly doubt it was anything close to malicious.
Austrian@120
Ah fuck it, you might be right!
BfG did have a good game. As a matter of fact, when he had the ball was about the only time I felt I could breathe securely for a second or two.
ATG, Happy birthday mate, and have a slivovitz on me or the drink of your choice. Sorry the result couldn’t have been more positive for the occasion. 🙂
dave, dave
The cunt didn’t want to play for us anymore. He made that a matter of public record. Can you not grasp that?
He would have wanted to if we were a good side though
We are a good side, Nonny.
We are short of being a very good one though. That much we now have to acknowledge.
A fortnight tonight we may or may not extend that line of thinking.
For the second season running, the LWC’s at home could be a watershed moment.
(warning) drunk now!
True word Holic how abut my email?
The dignity when he scored wasn’t enough and fuck that for a game of starters it’s my birthday today! I thought one thing that Verminator gifted it now that is an accusation!
Drinks are on Lars please!
I don’t think we are a good side, ‘h. We are capable of playing very good football but how many games this season can you remember us testing the keeper more than once or twice in 90 minutes? Do you remember the days when we’d rack up missed sitters against even the best teams? We can barely muster a shot on target against the likes of Sunderland thesedays.
And to be honest, as much as I’m liking Giroud’s attitude and obvious hunger to do well, I don’t see either him or Podolski being huge successes. I think I said it would be a miracle if they got twenty goals between them, before the season started. I’m beginning to think I’d be happy with half that number.
I’m not down because of the result, but because we haven’t played at all well for all but one or two games this season. We’ve put together a run of five shit performances on the bounce (even if Reading was exciting and a great comeback it was still dire to ship five goals) and even the win at West Ham was a pretty awful performance on the whole.
I think we’ve only played really well against Liverpool and Southampton, but I don’t remember much about Man City and Chelsea, when Wenger fucked about with his defence for no good reason, was where it all really started to come apart. In the sixth match of the season.
I just watched a few minutes of an old game against Man U at Highbury and almost wept at the players we had, the ground we had.. it’s all over. New era please.
Arthur, see #124…
Gazidis talks about how we will be financially great in two years, but how deep that hole we are currently in will be by then I don’t know. We might need every penny of the new commercial deals and the vast hoard of cash we currently have just to stand still. Bloody awful mismanagement. *grumble*
Only time for a swift skim of the drinks unfortunately.
Nice write up Holic, BtM, H2H, zico and especially TS – totally agree.
The galling thing is that knowing how important this game was, we turned in another sloppy, pedestrian performance devoid of any real creativity, and littered with basic individual errors that should not be happening at a club of this stature.
We are mentally weak. We do not learn lessons. We are disorganised.
Vermaelen’s concentration deserted him with that joke of a clearance after 2 1/2 minutes.
Whose job was it to mark Young on the edge of our box at that corner ?
Was it, in fact, anyone’s job ?
It all looks so haphazard. Players point at each other but noone reacts to danger. In the end Cazorla panics and rushes at Young, jumps to protect his face and gives away the penalty. Had Young been properly marked at the corner, it would not have happened.
Sagna is the only full back we have who anything like consistently stops crosses coming in, even though we are so vulnerable to them.
In defence, especially on the left hand side, and even when Gibbs is playing, everyone follows the ball and leaves the overlapping winger free to cross or run straight at the box.
Over and over and over again.
Tony Adams would have had the collars off a few shirts at half time today.
We were not helped today by Mike Dean.
Have to disagree, Holic, that I did have a problem with Jack’s red card. The first yellow may have been because the tackle was from side/behind. The second card was wrong, I believe. It looked as though Jack won tne ball and his momentum carried him into Evra, arriving from the opposite direction. Jack’s foot was as close to the ground as it could have been, and there was a totally non-malicious coming together, from which Evra predictably collapsed in agony.
In any event, both of Cleverly’s bad tackles – one of which went completely unpunished – were worse than both of Jack’s. Result: Jack is off, Cleverly stays on. Sadly, not even remotely surprising.
Bad decisions aside, it was a terrible performance, and mystifying considering our form up until Chelsea.
We had players missing. We always have players missing – usually the same ones. Sadly, the replacements are not up to the job.
We have multi-millions sloshing around in the bank for a rainy day.
Take a look, Ivan, Stan, Arsene, it’s pissing down again.
In closing for the day, I don’t think there’s a single side in the division that worries about playing Arsenal. The really bad sides expect to lose, the ones that are just plain bad know we are likely to be as bad as they are, or worse, on any given day and might get away with a draw or even win, the mid table teams really fancy their chances and the top teams know they are probably going to get an easy day out.
If you were a half decent player would you lose any sleep about facing a front trio of Podolski, Giroud, Gervinho?
Thought not.
Goodnight.
Too drunk and much too tired to back-drink, so I may or may not just repeat what has already been said but hey ho…
CvC should have seen red. That was a dangerous tackle any day of the week and had it been an away player doing the same tackle it would have been red.
Cleverley should have seen a second yellow.
But did we lose because of reffing mistakes?
Hell no. Not in any way whatsoever.
We did this to ourselves. The frustrating thing is that we are not that far off, just a little more movement and a little more decisiveness and we might as well have won it. But there wasn’t and we didn’t and we need to find a way to inject that extra bit of pace into our game again. How to do that? I have no idea. I wish I knew but I don’t.
Don’t know what more to say. We lost and we need to start racking up the wins if we want to be in the Champions League next season, it’s a simple as that.
Good night all and see you tomorrow. Pints are on my tab as usual.
Holic, btw, completely agree about the berk’s* red though.
saw 124 now bed time is calling!
BtM in room 101. Thanks for your top-picks. I’m wondering if Bac @ LB and Jenks @ RB is a better bet. TV @ LB never really filled me with confidence last season but definitely a better option than ‘Shirt-Swap-Santos’.
Lars – Glad you got to drink your pain away. I fear we may be further off the pace then you might think we are (hope I’m wrong on that). Still, I’ll take comfort knowing that that your card is behind the bar 🙂
I’m beginning to believe that time and the current situation has played right into Theo’s hands. He’s probably the best striker at the club now, certainly he’s the best finisher, and we can ill afford to lose another decent player.
For all his faults and shallow learning curve when compared to Jack and The Ox he is a better player now than 2 years ago. Should we be making bold moves to keep him? Or is it all too late to rescue?
Trev @ #145 – Your post a corker too. It is SO mystifying. These mental strength/concentration type issues unfortunately seem to point back to the manager / coaching staff.
We have a new group of players making exactly the same kind of errors as teams of several season ago. The common denominator is Arsene. Can’t believe I just typed that 🙁
*weeps*
Oh dear.
After my return from OT I did want to pop into this usual oasis of sanity for some light relief after a very long day.
Clearly ‘tis is a far, far better thing for one’s ageing ticker to be at the game than follow it via the cyber bloggo dodgy streamy MOTD badly edited highlights twatterverse.
Not sure what exactly were people expecting from the first game after we sold 30+ goals a season to rivals we have almost always struggled against in recent times? Well, we got something slightly better than the result before we sold Mr Goal Machine. Miraculously.
I was going to post something up about the game, but I am somewhat baffled by some of the outrage. I can only remember us winning there 3 times in the last 20 odd years, although I did spend part of that time in Spain so acknowledge I may have missed some stuff along the way.
We’re way off the pace from the top 3, and the gap seemed larger than I wished it today. Santos and TV were poor. Per and Don Vito were epic. Jack, Arteta and Santi were made anonymous by some very disciplined play. But we lost, like we often do against them. Thank fuck we don’t have to play them every week eh?
Or Norwich 😉
Snowy@152
The outrage is mainly due to the fact that we simply caved in and let them have the run of the entire game and, even when we got the slightest glimmer of a counter-attack going, we simply didn’t do anything of note with the ball.
Toothless, whimpering, clueless and limp. They would be the words to describe the performance from all but two players.
Somebody said in the last drinks that as long as we left our blood on the pitch, the result didn’t matter too much.
We hardly even left sweat on the pitch.
The result isn’t the issue, it is the total lack of OUR Arsenal Football Club that was on show in that “performance.”
I have not seen the game in full, only the MOTD highlights. I did however listen to the radio commentary. I do not have much to add to what has already been said. It was poor to the extreme and simply not good enough. I do not think that you can have two shots on target and expect to win at the Mancs. I can’t see how we can have any complaints with the sending of or the penalty. I have watched the sky highlights and they nor the Beeb have shown the RVP tackle. I have not heard anyone else make mention of it so no one else seems to be making a big deal of it? At this moment I can’t comment.
Today yet again displayed what we already know. I do find the arguments about injuries a tad tedious. As has been mentioned above, Rosicky, Gibbs, Diaby all out injured???? Who would have thought that? Who is really that surprised???
Many will know my views. I feel the club has been in a steady decline for some time now. You can not keep on selling your best players and hope to make progress. 4 years ago we were told that the problems had been identified by the club and work was already being undertaken to ensure that the necessary signings would be made prior to the Euros of 2008. In May 2009 we were told that if Arsenal do not end their trophy drought in the next “one or two years” the AW’s strategy for the club will have failed. In October 2012 we are told that 4th is like winning a trophy and that in 2 years we should be competitive in the transfer market. Is it any wonder that the fans voice their disapproval?????
Every season we have been at the Grove we have made a profit in the transfer market. Every year we are told that there are millions and millions in the bank. Every year the club announces figures that confirm us as one of the wealthiest clubs in the world. But every year we still sell our best players. So, who next? Many moan, ridicule and abuse RVP for leaving. The circumstances and final destination were hardly ideal. But maybe some of the anger is at the realisation at what we have lost, and perhaps more importantly, not replaced. What will it take for those at the helm of our great club to realise that we are on this downward track? A finish outside of the top 4? The failure to attract the kind of sponsorship deals awarded to other clubs? The failure to convince the top players that their future likes at The Arsenal? Or the loss of the likes of Jack Wilshere, should he decide his future is better suited elsewhere?
It’s been going on for ages people and far too many have had their heads in the sand in my humble opinion. We are a decent side but we are a long way off being a top side. The performance today will just add further weight to the argument. The fact is that this is the worst start to a Premier League campaign that we have had under AW. Those in charge need to sit up and take note, and fast. If they don’t then performances like that if today may just become slightly more frequent.
TW@153 – there are often reasons why “we simply didn’t do anything with the ball”.
The first reason is we don’t have it.
The second reason is when we have it, very disciplined sides work hard to take it away from us, and then punish us for our mistakes.
Both of those reasons applied today.
I don’t think many of the away support today felt that the team didn’t try.
Nice one Ms Snow.
Nonny, I can recommend Wilkinson Sword if you’re determined to slit your wrists.
Welcome back Snowman. And thank you for that heart warming rendition of “You’re just a fat granny shagger”. Epic.
Nonny @ #146
Answering your own questions on a blog? Definitely time to sleep it off old bean.
G’night!
Yay snowy, away support was superb as usual.
Maybe the fun of the day out mitigates against the angst that we armchair viewers suffer.
Nonny. Harsh on OG and Poldi.
But for about 5 great saves OG is close to being our leading scorer and he works hard. One play today wanted to make me slap him …
Sure. But hold gour crystal ball. A lot of football left.
True storyey:
True enough. Well said.
Gooners – better days ahead.
It’s been a shit day…but still (just) November 3rd here – so happy birthday Ian Wright. We could do with his fire right about now.
The miserable nature of the game and the listless attitude of the team got me wondering. Why is the team so down and pedestrian? Why do they need motivation? Isn’t the very fixture and the opposition and the past few crappy performances enough kick in the collective butt? Not to mention the money they make? When the invincibles lost at the OT to the grannyhumper’s dive, the team’s dejection in the following games was understandable. I don’t get this teams problem. Why are they down? How can they go from a promising start to such abject, indifferent performances? For no apparent reason? Any clue?
I hate this but AW is really running his own legacy down.
He clearly does not have the balls to do what is right for the club anymore. It hurts so much to see us being so extremely one-dimensional. Its as good as witnessing Wimbledon FC or the Stoke Orcs with their longball approach. At least they causes problems for most oppositions!
There is no comparison between Fergie and AW. One clearly adapts absolutely well to times and situations, one stubbornly and cluelessly sticks to a single approach to all problems. Fergie (hate him), together with Mourinho (hate him too) are the best man-managers the football world now.
AW on the other hand, has never gotten the best out of his bunch of grossly overpaid kids (ever since his ‘grooming’ era). In fact, it just seems that he is consistently being held ransom to their constant greed.
Where is the pride in our club now? Selling an ungrateful but hugely gifted cunt to Manure??
Its really a painful and disappointing period to be a Gunner…
Hopefully, we will still be able to attract sufficient young fans in the next generation to be consider a decent club.
A very enjoyable read ‘Holic. The P.S was spot on!
Due to living in New Zealand, watching the game live is somewhat an arduous task, what with the time difference and all…….But I do it without complaint. I had a shit nights sleep due to the fact that the game only finished at 345am here. Oh yea and we played SHIT!
I have had enough of Santos, he needs to go, I don’t care where.
It was a mistake for Wenger to leave Wilshire on! And it was a mistake to leave Podolski on for so long. He should have been replaced with Arshavin much earlier in the game. Poor wee Arshavin had 9 minutes to make a difference, which against Man United at Old Trafford is not long enough. He was one fo the start men against Reading and deserved more time on the field!
Anyway it’s Sunday here in NZ and beautifully sunny so I think i might go and hack a ball around a golf course!
ARSE!!!!!!!!
‘holic, you’re one of the most patient and experienced Gooner who has seen lots of ups and downs. But have your ever seen any Arsenal player making a fool of himself like Santos. Forget about his lack of quality, he’s at best Championship level player but asking for your opponent’s shirt at HT and that too from that Dutch skunk, how do you justify that?
Arsene should have removed him to put Jenko, that lad would have given his 100% before losing the game. If we keep playing, players like Santos who don’t give a fuck about Arsenal, we’ll never win against Manure.
Snowy@155
Were you being disengenuous when you cut off the first part of my sentence when quoting me? I hope not, but just for posterity, here it is in full…
“even when we got the slightest glimmer of a counter-attack going, we simply didn’t do anything of note with the ball.”
Note the massive difference between what you presented and what I wrote?
My point is not that we didn’t have the ball to do anything with it, my point is that when we DID have the ball we didn’t do anything with it. HUGE difference.
As for saying that an organised team can snuff us out when we DO have the ball, are we now suggesting that our inability to create any chances whatsoever without a massive slight of pinball style luck in the last moment of time added on is acceptable because the opposition were organised?!
If that is the way of things then why aren’t we so organised that the opposition cannot create chances either? In truth Utd could have had 5 or eve 6 today.
Cuts both ways.
Snowy@155 (again!)
I don’t think that the problem, in general anyway, is a lack of effort (although today is surely not a day in anybody can seriously claim that the work rate being put in was what was needed in a match of such importance?! I am actually a little stunned that the fantastic away support – as always – left OT thinking anything other than the fans were more motivated than the players, to be totally honest).
I think that with all the best will in the world and the effort to go with it is nothing if you simply do not have the quality to match that effort.
And that is the problem. Selling quality and replacing it with not so much quality every year. Of course we are going to find ourselves in the very hole that we are now in. A squad without any real depth at all, lacking cover in most if not all positions and a board of directors that seemingly don’t give a flying fuck whilst they rake it in and charge the die-hards serious money for them to do so.
Cover for GK: Flaps, Mannone – Not good enough for an EPL side.
Cover for RB: Jenks – Getting there and fast until he was unceremoniously dropped the moment Sagna was fit again.
Cover for CB: Kos and Djourou – Kos is maybe good enough, Djourou clearly is not
Cover for LB (with an injury record worse than The Rotter’s: Not even going there!
Cover for CM: Assuming that we are not going to even count Diaby and Rosicky in this as we all knew they could not be relied upon to be fit for more than 5 minutes at a time we are looking at Ramsey, the Ox and, well, nobody else for three positions.
Cover for RW: Walcott, who Wenger is bluntly and stubbornly refusing to play no matter what he does when given the chance and the Ox who is apparently a CM anyway!
Cover for LW: Errrrmmm…Arshavin?!!?! Ok, maybe Santi, but then we have the problem of no cover in the centre.
CF: Chamakh! Enough said!
And again, if we are trying not to inhibit the progress of the kids, when will we see them actually get a game outside of the COC?!
It just doesn’t add up to any more than the board sucking the team dry with every turn and leaving us with less and less options with which to actually field a good side.
Snowy, seriously, I am not here in the role of doomer, never have been…I have been a staunch supporter of Wenger through all of this as a few others here who, although they may not realise it, can actually atest to, but I am seriously thinking that a place in the Europa Cup may be out of our reach if the season keeps going like this. If we make enough noise now, might it not reach the ears of the powers that be by the time the January window opens?
Our worst start under Wenger doesn’t worry you? This time last season we were a “club in crisis” etc. etc. etc. Where does that put us now?
was telling my wife when we were 1 nil down that manu were not even in 2nd gear.
if you cant pick up your game against that lot at OT then you have no business being in an Arsenal shirt.
for me its down to the manager. sure without him we probably would not be in the elite group that sees us in the CL every year. But when did we really give teams a game. its not hard for teams to cancel us out. i feel for the fans who pay the highest ticket prices in the world to see the likes of santos and vermaellen. verminator my ass.
these are highly paid professionals.
if you cant do what you are paid to do in a consistent manner why should you be on the wage bill.
surely this should be the end of wenger’s illustrious reign. (i am not being dramatic) he should do the honourable thing and call it quits. if he really does love Arsenal and i believe he does, he should let another person take the team forward.
p.s. thought jack was the only person out there who wore the shirt with pride. he will get better.
hope the fans really boo and give santos hell whenever we play. only way we can get the moron out of our club.
it worked to get eboue out, right?
Great post holic for starters but as a true gunner lyk maself i.e.Thiery and a no.7o hv bn pointing out…we have fallen from grace and are headed for doomsdaya nd have been for a while i.e. since that fateful C.L.Final and the 1 Person wgho has been through ital all is A.W and he wnt change now…its good to know i am not ailing alone…too bad we hv lost 6 seasons of young gunners supporters for the future…A.W May leave arsenal on a v good economic footing but in a very dier football club state..ohh if ha ever does leave!!
As you said holic. Banging the same old heads against the same old wall.
Why is it that it is that everyone outside the club seems to see it, but no one inside seems to actually get it?????
Was that the slowest starting XI that Wenger has ever put out?
Whatever people think of RvP, I doubt his decision to leave was taken lightly and he did what he believed was in his best interests. We all know he has the capacity to be a nasty cunt; just he used to be our nasty cunt.
Is it now time to debunk the myth that Steve Bould is a defensive genius?
Unfortunately Wenger was tacticly out thought by Ferguson. TV5 had a shocker and Poldi offered the awful Santos no cover. Couldn’t Miquel, Le Coq or Meade offer better defensive cover until Gibbs returns?
The club captain does not have to start every game when he is fit.
Ferguson had the sense to take off Cleverly when he was on a final warning. Wilshere was tiring and not having the best of games but Wenger did not move Ramsey inside or bring Le Coq on.
Never buy a jigsaw of a Frenchman called Arsene. There will always be one or two pieces missing!
……. and goes to pieces in the box.
😉
Good blog as always, ‘holic.
Too early for beers, but coffee and a glass of Pellegrino (or similar) sounds nice.
It definitely feels much, much worse this morning.
*goes to find a bottle*
Arseblog asks about January and what we’ll do. Answer – spend the month trying to sell our most potent attacking threat, to squeeze a few quid into the bank account before he leaves on a free.
Gazidis – stop fucking about and get in touch with Guardiola right now. Sound him out about the job, if he wants it, give him it and spend the rest of the year working out a severance package for Wenger and Primorac (plus anyone else who Guardiola does not want). It should all be done and announced before January and if Guardiola doesn’t want to start until the summer, let Bould take over (as the season is dead already) and get players signed that Guardiola wants, plus contract renewals for the players he wants to keep.
If we’re not going to spend big on top quality players, spend big on a top quality manager and let the Wenger madness end ASAP.
Thank you.
Nonny.
That won’t happen. Firstly we cannot offer what he will get elsewhere, Secondly, he can’t reproduce barca without a massive budget. Basically he mentored an established assembly line in a familiar environment. He is unproven in any other setting. He is a gamble for someone who can afford it.
Thanks to Mertesacker and Mannone for saving us from a repeat of last year’s embarrassement. It was ridiculous to leave it until the 81st minute to replace Podolski. He, Santos and Vermaelen were dire (again) and should have been removed at an early stage while there was time to change the course of the game. The failure to take appropriate action when necessary is extremely worrying.
Wrightkamp @ 168 – that puts us in the quarter finals of the League Cup (the sparkling Manure you admire so are out), still in the CL (the only team in England to qualify for the final round in 15 consecutive seasons, as we will this year), well positioned in the league and undefeated in the FA Cup.
Last year how did the Club in Crisis finish? We will improve upon that this year.
You may also recall that the masterful Manure won……….?
Fuck all last year. (Despite their 400M debt).
The majority of clubs in Europe would love to have Arsenal’s recent record which you deride so enthusiastically. Recruiting Arsene Wenger as their manager would elevate the likelihood of their achieving that. Arsene could go anywhere in Europe tomorrow. He would be infinitely more difficult to replace than any of the toss pots who’ve gone for more money
Is everything perfect at Arsenal? – no. Nor is it at any other club in Europe (even at City who bought the league for 400m last year. A depth to which our “club in crisis” never sinks). Some changes are needed, but in relation to the disaster scenario your posts paint, they are relatively minor.
Bath – in salary terms, we’re paying Wenger 9m a year. Guardiola is not going to cost much more than that. As far as the rest goes, a massive spend on players is going to be needed no matter who takes over, as the dross we have been landed with by the current manager is not good enough to compete.
BTM @ 180 Well said Sir
Bath@178 – not to mention he couldn’t hack it when the going got tougher and they didn’t win everything anymore.
Nonny: “and get players signed that Guardiola wants, plus contract renewals for the players he wants to keep”
Sounds very simple, doesn’t it? But how do you propose we pay for all that? I know, I know, the fabled “£70 million” but that really won’t get us very far and then we will have to pay wages for the players too which is the real problem. Any Premier League club can buy a £30 million player but very few can pay the wages that comes along with it without going bust.
And this is not even considering the fact that the sum 70 million that we keep hearing about is pretty much based on a guess by Swiss Ramble – a very informed and advanced guess but still a guess.
“in salary terms, we’re paying Wenger 9m a year.”
It’s usually 7 million that is bandied about an even that is a questionable “fact” as other sources have said far less.
I don’t quite get the “end of the world is nigh” sentiments. Yes, we lost in a manner which was disappointing, but wasn’t the start to last season worse? Wasn’t this team playing great stuff before the international break? Or was it just a dream? I’m as mystified as everyone else by what’s happened since but that form could just as quickly return. Hopefully midweek.
I agree Santos is a liability and anyone else couldn’t be worse.
But apart from those already mentioned, Arteta gave his all again, as did Bacs, Santi, Ramsey and Jack.
Surprised that we didn’t start with more width but I guess both Theo and AA having played 120 minutes midweek may have had some say in the matter.
Tuesday’s starting 11 will be interesting.
Plenty still to play for.
BtM & dkg
Yep, enough hand-wringing, I’ve O/D’d on that crap now.
Time to man-up and get behind the team.
As you say, plenty still to play for despite the issues.
UTA!
Some great solutions being bandied about on here.
Sack the manager. Boo players out of the club. Tried and tested, proven routes to success, eh?
Guardiola might be Arsenal manager one day, but there’s no guarantee he’d be a success. In fact, I don’t think there’s a manager alive who is going to win the league on a negative transfer spend and a salary cap less than a third of his rivals.
The idea of Steve Bould taking over in Jan is also farcical. I love Bouldy, but he’s shown in the CL games he’s overseen that he’s not ready for the hot seat yet.
What we tend to achieve (top four) is actually slightly above par for what we spend. It’s the spending, or lack thereof, that’s the problem. Until the money is there you can appoint whoever you want to the manager’s seat and it will only weaken and further destabilise us.
None of which is to say that poor performances are acceptable. Steve T’s regular question about whether we’re the best we could be is pertinent. But ultimately, it’s a rut we’re in. We’ve performed poorly three league games in a row. One of those games we actually won. It’s not the moment to sack the manager, is it?
I predict we’ll scrap a top four finish, which (yet again) will be a decent result given resources. If anyone seriously believes that Arsene Wenger is sat on a £70m transfer budget that he simply refuses to sell then i’d say they’re extremely naive.
I’m afraid that we are where we are. It’s hard work and a bit of unity that will get us out of the hole we’re in right now. Not dreams of managers we’ll never appoint (why would Guardiola agree to take a job in January? And how do we know he isn’t just taking a year off from Barca before going back?) and fans booing players out of the squad.
If you want a decent guide, look at the away support. Fully behind the team, asking questions of the board. I’d say that’s about right.
True Storey
Amen brother!
Oh, and spare me all the “RVP was right” bollocks.
He tried to tell Wenger who to buy and who to appoint as his deputy. He walked away to treble his salary. He turned his back on a manager who stood by him through thick and thin. He publicly slated the club on his way out the door. He banged on about the joy of joining Man ufcuking nited.
He’s a cunt, and he can shove his lack of celebration and “respect for the club” up his arse.
Sacking the manager is just the start. The irony of the situation we are in is that we’ve been holding on to the mythical saviour that is FFP, and when it is due to kick in, mismanagement means we might have to end up spending sums that will put us in breach, just to maintain our position.
I will never understand anyone who thinks Arsene Wenger is the right man for the job now. If he hadn’t had a very good four or five years at the start, a lot of which was built off the back of players he didn’t sign (although by no means all of it of course) people would be screaming for his head and would have been years ago.
He is living off his past. His present, and recent past, is not good enough. It is dreadful.
Disappointing result.
Dire performance.
Doomsday…..not after just 10 PL games.
Superb away supporters.
Spu*s lost.
Schalke the turning point.
Sense returns to the “drinks” on this esteemed establishment.
Sunday lunch down the pub beckons…….
N7 @ 186: “If you want a decent guide, look at the away support. Fully behind the team, asking questions of the board. I’d say that’s about right.”
They certainly kept my spirits up, sitting here watching on a dodgy stream.
Afternoon ‘holicsters,
The morning after the day before, and unlike very many I can see upon back-drinking, I’m not all that disheartened by yesterday’s performance at the home of English footballing Nepotism and Corruption.
Read an article today in the Sundays’ where Old Red nose was stating that he has been communicating with several of the premiership referees since Clattenberg-Chav-gate and he reveals that they are all considering industrial action as a means of protest at the injustice of his treatment. Is it just me or is this unbelievably disturbing for a premiership manager to be stating openly his personal relationship with the adjudicators?! Since when is it acceptable for a manager to openly state that he is in dialogue with the match officials that oversee his club’s games, and he further goes on to state that he supports whatever action they may wish to take?! The final shred of evidence needed if ever there was any further doubt!
Returning to our beloved Arsenal, I fully concur with BtM @180. We’re not far off and, as last year showed, many will, yet again, be eating humble pie! Bring on another compelling week!
Perhaps trying to make your squad perform better by appearing forlorn and making them feel that they’ve let you down and you’re hurting inside but will never stop loving them is not working in these times of mercenary footballers.
Perhaps being aggressive with them and making them aware of who the boss is and fear the repercussions of poor performances is working.
That is the difference between our teams.
In my myopic eyes anyway.
We’re not far off, yet in reality light years away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbd3E6tK2U
188, with you there N7
Flicked through the channels on the tv and caught the last ten minutes of a rerun of the Spurs-Wigan game and if people thought we looked lethargic v ManU, then let me tell you Spurs were far worse in that regard. During those ten minutes I saw, Wigan defended very comfortably and could and perhaps should have scored more. Spurs were completely devoid of ideas apart from “give it to Bale and let’s hope he can do something” and up top Adbeayor was lumbering about doing bugger-all. That cheered me up a bit 🙂
Agreed Lars.
I just hope the worst Arsenal side of this century doesn’t lose to the worst LWC team of this century in a fortnight.
The fallout would make today look pleasant.
Very true, ‘holic. I’m still wondering whether I should day trip that one or not (clue: it’s more painful to daytrip when we lose)
*crosses the ball better than Santos*
Holic, that is a truly frightening thought 🙁
Well played, Lars.
Well, it was quite a lucky goal I must admit. But they still count!
We need a Bacary moment.
…and Theo to sign da ting 😉
Well played Lars.
Nice assist Ollie.
Can either of you play left back? 🙂
Holic. it ain’t happenin’ bro.
*reaches for the bottle again*
haven’t seen anyone mention this either. the dutch traitor probably deserved a straight red for that reckless tackle on sagna who was out for some time with a broken leg so he enjoyed a bit of vengenace on us for letting him go to a better team for a large payday.
did anyone even put a tackle in on him all day? i’ve seen plenty of managers who would out of principal have someone stalking a player like that all day long. do you think patrick viera would have let rvp walk through midfield without a shove or worse?
Matt foley @ 205
I thought the same.
Someone should have stuck one on him out of principle in the first few mins. Take the card and set the tone. It would have lifted the away support too.
We also know he can be wound up, so why not have a niggle and a little word? He’s not your mate. There are no mates when you’re out on the pitch.
bath, I’ll play anywhere the manager wants me.
Which would probably be at left-back… for the other team.
Matt@205 & N7 @206
I have to agree. TA6 would have kicked him up in the air at the earliest opportunity. Instead our ‘cuddly Brazilian’ begged for his shirt at HT (FFS!).
At least LJW gave him one for a ‘final warning’.
Feo let down by his team.
Sorry, I mean Lewis 😉
heh, the Trojan horse is a recognised strategy in many circles.
Shite. Can’t even go to the local pitches to watch a game this afternoon because they’re a bit frightened of a touch of rain. A couple of puddles about twenty yards across and a couple of inches deep are enough for them to cancel the game. It seems pampered puffery is not only confined to the Premier League these days.
Ollie @ 211
I can’t help conflating them too.
@186
i think the spending model has been highlighted as the chief hindrance to us competing for the league. zach slaton of forbes, a gooner, has some good stuff on this. in fact, he estimates that arsenal need to spend 125m to compete for the title, and that’s including the wenger coefficient for getting more out of the players than what is spent.
the thing is though, that this is merely statistics, and wenger has an ability to consistently perform above his relative spend, so this could be enhanced even further, maybe not to the point where we can win the league at these levels of spending, but to be competitive late into the season. injuries for me stand out as one of the reasons why we haven’t been able to seriously challenge, despite the paucity of spend. again, we have how many first teamers out injured? gibbs, diaby, rosicky, gervinho now, woj, fabianski, and ox. i can hardly remember a time when we didn’t have six to eight first teamers out. also, from doing a little research awhile ago, i think eight first teamers out on injury is about the most that any team EVER has. in other words, it looks like we are statistically more injury prone for some reason. having multiple players tackled out of the game at the top level can have an effect there, but really this needs to be solved.
Please don’t get all wrapped up in the look what happened last season argument. We all know we were one RVP injury away from potential disaster.
Re Theo, for me it is now time to compromise. Up the offer, agree re playing positions and get him to sign. If it does not work out then sell him. If he walks away for nothing I really will despair.
The thing is, you’ve named names as examples of first teamers out but I would suggest only one of those would even be considered by the top teams in this country for their first eleven and even he, AOC, probably wouldn’t get into any of their teams as a starter.
i am not calling for wenger’s head right now, but i can think of some capable replacements. one of my favorites would be jurgen klopp, yes, the guy that looks like a tragic eighties pop star (or something), but dortmund are just scary right now, and they do it on a budget, something that someone like pep never really had to worry about.
my point mainly is that the club can be successful beyond wenger, and we shouldn’t let our comfort with him stand in the way of moving forward. i think if the club doesn’t manage to make the fourth spot, there should be some serious discussion about changing managers.
and i agree. gazidis might be a talented executive, but what the hell has he done for us to merit a 2m salary (if i remember correctly)?
@215 nonny
i assume you’re responding to my injury list. i realize that these players individually are not world beaters, but that’s not the point at all. we are better and would perform better with woj, gibbs, and diaby available. gervinho doesn’t hurt. fabianski showed last year that he should be the backup so he’s probably better than mannone. rosicky was also getting back to form last year and had some good games. and ox does have some pace to offer if called upon.
if you don’t spend much money, you have to find alternative ways to enhance the squad, and we would be a better team with these players available. a new medical facility isn’t much good, if we have the same number of players out regularly. and as i suggested, this isn’t unique to this season, in seasons past we had the same problems with players who were probably even more talented than those mentioned in my post.
haven’t seen anyone mention this either. the dutch traitor probably deserved a straight red for that reckless tackle on sagna
Love it. Even when I break my own rule about foul and abusive nobody bothers to read the blog.
Why do I fucking bother 😉
Matt Foley, my feeling is that if we finish below fourth, then Arsene will walk away voluntarily. I have nothing specific to base that on, it is as I said just a feeling I have. It might be completely wrong of course.
Steve T@214: I totally see what you mean re: Theo and the only thing I can say against it is that “if it does not work out sell him” might not be so easy if he is on too high a salary – but then again maybe that is a gamble that we have to make at this point? After all, if that gamble pays off then it could pay off quite massively.
‘holic, I was wondering, but I am hoping for the ‘nobody mentioned it’ to relate to the second part of that drink?
Or am I hoping for too much?
Lars, I have the same feeling as you.
I did, and agreed with it. 😉
I don’t think it is a gamble Lars. He is 23 and a regular England international. His best years are still ahead of him. There will be enough takers if we wanted to sell him. The current uncertainty is not helping anyone and can only be detrimental to the current situation.
Nice work from N7 up there, and from BtM who would find a positive in going down into League 2 I’m sure.
Still finding it hard to be all that upbeat this morning, but trying. 😉
Steve@222: you may well be right about that, but in any case I agree with you on the important point. We need to get Theo to sign that contract and to do so sharpish.
I chose to play football with my two grandsons in the interests of our 2030 World Cup bid rather than watch live so pessimistic was I. I am still reeling from Tuesday where Arsenal produced the worst first-half performance I think I have ever seen. Viewing later we were very poor here and our start was disastrous. When did we last score an early goal?
There are strong rumours that Bouldy and Wenger are not seeing eye to eye and the evidence suggests little defensive coaching is going on-and the time isn’t being spent on attacking coaching either! This is a very poor side which one can see has been progressively weakened by years of selling quality and replacing in some cases with mediocrity (or in Santos’) case worse.
Nothing will happen of any consequence. The Board and Wenger don’t do the knee-jerk reaction but while I usually suggest prudence I genuinely think Wenger’s coaching abilities look tired and outmoded.It is time for major change.
Still we have an easy game on Tuesday.
A worse thing for me than Santos getting the shirt at half time was the beaming on pitch handshake as the teams walked off, given to RvP by the manager. The guy had a go at your plans for the club in public, supposedly made demands (I don’t believe that story though) and scored against your team, who were playing like absolute cunts incidentally, and your reaction at half time is to treat him to the broadest smile and almost give him a hug as he walks off? Fuck that.
Lars. You may well be right about AW walking away if we don’t get top four. However, for me the most frustrating thing in the world is that it does not have to be that way. We all see it and we have the money to at least put some of it right. But still we don’t. Why is what I want to know? As I said, I find it the most frustrating and unnecessary thing in the world.
BtM@180: I have to disagree with you mate, even though I love reading your erudite prosaic posts. It’s misguided support like yours that will allow Kronke and Wenger to ruin the team further, all we are doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. We’re sinking fast and to think after last years dreadful start we’re actually now worse off?
Doesn’t that tell you everything?
Afternoon all.
Many Happy Returns Arthur!
Austrian Gunner.
I’ve seen the incidents again and I’m afraid we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
====
Just finished backdrinkig, very interesting read, I enjoyed all the posts, from the most optimistic to the most pessimistic it’s clear we all love the Arsenal we just choose to show it in different ways.
I was pretty subdued with my opinions yesterday because in all honestly I never expected us to take anything from that game, even beforehand in the drinks I made reference to my pessimism, which is a relatively new experience for me when it comes to Arsenal and one I’m not enjoying. After viewing the game again I’m not feeling as mellow as yesterday.
The one aspect where my opinion hasn’t changed is my admiration for the traveling support, Snowy and the lads were enormous, you went well beyond what that dross that was served up deserved, a tip of the hat to you all. If the players showed an iota of the passion you all did then we’d be champions of the world.
As for what was on the pitch, well apart from a 10-15 minute period, we were quite simply dire, no passion, no fight, no clue, nothing. Santos is getting slated and rightly so, but he can’t shoulder all the blame, our entire left side was virtualy non exsistant. I’ve been worried and speculated about Poldi’s contribution (or lack of) a number of times over the last few weeks and wharever it’s due to, the most worrying factor, as Zico also pointed out, is that he gets a starting place regardless.
The same can be said about our current captain, whether its a blip in form or the responsibility of the armband that’s weighing him down, something is wrong and his performances have been nowhere near good enough to warrent a guarenteed starting place, let alone carry the burden of the captaincy. I personally had championed Arteta for the position but I understood that it went to TV because he had been the vice last season.
Still, AW has always claimed that it wasn’t important and that we need leaders all through the squad. Really? I didn’t see a single one yesterday. Yeah, LJW put in a good shift, the BFG was solid and Mannone saved us on more then one occasion, but we have no-one who’s willing or able to pick the game up by the scruff of the neck and pull us over the line kicking and screaming. Shame. Over the last few games we’ve been spineless and the level of commitment is just not good enough and that, to me, is a lot more worrying then a lack of quality.
Now I’m not going to join those calling for Wengers head, but I do see where some of them are coming from, there’s something very wrong and in reality the buck must stop at him. BTM (@180) makes some great points for the other side of the coin and I agree with N7 (@186) that the soloutions that are being bandied about are unrealistic and would probably solve nothing, but where do we go from here?
Holic (@139 paraphrased) claims that we are “a good side, but short of being a very good side”. If by side you mean team, then I’m afraid sir, based on our last few showings, that I will have to respectfully disagree. We’re nowhere near a good side/team, we indeed poccess a few players with quality, but as a collective (side/team) we are a shambles. There has been no understanding, no covering and virtualy no team ethos for a while now which is baffling because this same team started off the season well as a unit. Even in the Stoke and Sunderland draws where we failed to score, you could see the team were playing as one, but that has gone and we’re now looking like a bunch of blokes who, as I posted yesterday, met up half an hour before kick off in the parking lot.
I agreed with a lot of the things others had to say (incl TS, Trev, Lars, Ollie etc) but for me Steve T (@154) pretty much hits the nail slam bam in the middle of the head.
Once again I’d like to reiterate that I’m not making these judgements based on yesterdays result, which in no realms of reality was ever going to be a gimme, going to Old Toilet never is. To get beat there is no shame and 2-1 is a pretty respectable scoreline, especially considering what happened last time around. It’s just the fact that we bent over and took it without offering any real form of resistance which bothers me so much. Losing is part and parcel of the game, but losing without putting up a fight can not, nor should not be considered acceptable to us the fans.
AW told us a few weeks ago that “the season starts here”, well in that case this season is a disater and a big steaming heap of poo. Something had better be done sooner rather then later or those Gooners who sit on the Wenger Out side of the defence will grow in numbers considerably. So please Mr Wenger, sort it out, make the changes that need to be made, if we can see it then surely you can too. Ruffle some feathers and kick some arses, ours and your future may depend on it.
If you’ve made it this far down then you deserve a drink on me.
Cheers and as always Arsenal Forever!!
Nonny, you should really believe that story though, it’s very much the reason(s) he was sold.
Hemlock please, H2H
Well that was scary.
I stayed away from here yesterday – didn’t trust myself not to go off on one and say things that left any sense of reason far far behind.
Am I feeling any different today? Save for a hangover not really.
Everybody’s allowed one rant right? I try to limit myself to one a season. Last season it was the colossal ineptitude up at Blackburn. The season before it was the inexplicable implosion up at Newcastle. This season I have to admit it’s been brewing for some time. In the light of the Norwich game, I knew I was the headline act so I knew that any reactionary bile had to be kept to a minimum. After Schalke, I managed to sate my ill-temper by concentrating my angst on the disgraceful Santos, but I can’t hold off any longer. I suggest that those of you that have had enough of rants skip to the next drink – I would certainly understand.
What the fuck was that that we all witnessed yesterday? I don’t mind losing away at Man Utd, not really, it’s no disgrace and let’s face it after one draw and eight defeats in nine games, we should all be getting used to it by now. But to lose like that, when we look no better than a Sunderland or a Villa just waiting to get our arses kicked? It was spineless, gutless and devoid of any of the blood that Clive asked be spilled for the cause.
Let’s start with the worst – Andre the Elephant. He was utterly hopeless. He is not fit for purpose. He is a disgrace to himself, his family and the shirt worn so proudly by Sansom, Winterburn, and yes Cole whilst he was here. I will support any Arsenal player through every wayward pass, mistimed tackle, and fluffed shot. Sure I’ll have a pop at them every now and then on here but I’ve never booed any one of them throughout 40 years at The Arsenal. That is unlikely to change, but my forbearance will be due only to the fact that booing your own is so self-defeating, and not because I retain one ounce of affection, one scintilla of respect, for him. That contempt for him will not change even if he bangs in a hat trick of screamers in his next game. Once they can’t be bothered to get fit they lose me. That’s it. If he doesn’t respect himself then why should I? He should never play for us again and should be shipped out on January 1st, on a free if necessary. Luckily I went for my half time constitutional so missed the ignominy of the shirt swap and have only learned about it on a back-drink. Had I seen it, the pub’s television would have been in mortal danger. Andre Santos please please please just fucking fuck off.
Thomas Vermaelen. His form is dire and has been since he returned from injury for the Chelsea game. He presented the first goal on a plate for the *berk, made another ridiculous mistake just a minute into the second half which could and should have led to Manure extending their lead, was at fault for their second and looked a liability all game.
None of the above is as a result of hindsight. The games at Norwich and against Schalke showed beyond a shadow of doubt to all but the most one-eyed that Santos was unfit. Many of us have been saying for weeks that it should have been the Captain and not Kos that made way for Per (one of the few bright sparks again yesterday). The argument that Kos has been equally poor just doesn’t wash. Yes he was poor against Chelsea and for much of the Reading game, but he is undercooked. Vermaelen has played all season and appears to be getting progressively worse. Kos is by far and away our best defender. He must play. If it takes him a couple of games to get back up to speed then so be it.
For both, and much as it pains me to say it, the manager must be held responsible. It is not exactly rocket science. This has nothing to do with lack of funds, it is just basic common sense. I have said before that the buck stops with Santos for his dereliction of duty. I stand by that, but continuing to pick him when there are other options available (Coq, Jenks, Meade, TV5, even SteveT ffs!), is to condone the indefensible.
Podolski – How many good games has he had? I can only think of Liverpool and Soton, half a game against City and half a game against WHU. Time to pull your finger out Son. If he’s not fit, he shouldn’t be playing and again the Manager is culpable.
Ramsey on the right? Good up at Eastlands in that position for an hour but how many times now has he played on the flanks and it patently hasn’t worked? Safe to say that if it doesn’t work at Loftus Road at the back end of last season then it’s not going to work at Old Trafford. Again, the decision simply screams of Arsene crossing all his fingers and toes and saying “This time, maybe this time…” Sagna, who had another good game, had absolutely no out ball in front of him all game.
Jack. Ok this bit is with some hindsight. Most, including me, would have picked him. His recovery from injury will not be linear, it will have its ups and downs I understand that, but with the benefit of the afore-mentioned hindsight perhaps Old Trafford wasn’t the best place to continue that recovery. I thought he had a tidy if non-penetrative first 10 mins and then faded into anonymity for the rest of the half. To be fair he enjoyed 15 mins prior to their second goal where he showed the first stirrings that he might have an influence on the game, but after the warning he got from Deane when he was already in the book, he was an accident waiting to happen. Again Arsene is culpable. Look at what RedNose did with Cleverly. To say we didn’t have options is nonsense. Why wasn’t Eisfeld, such a revelation in midweek, even on the bench?
Our shape. Why does Arsene persist with a shape that is clearly not working either defensively or going forward and which patently does not suit many of the players we have available. It’s all been said before, so I won’t go over old ground, but because of the tactical inflexibility I would largely excuse Arteta, Cazorla and Giroud from any criticism. Arteta has earned the right to have a bad game, Cazorla did as well as he could in the circs, whilst Giroud, isolated and starved of service, was willing all game.
RedNose knew he had to take Arteta out and did so with Rooney. But again it’s hardly rocket science is it. The world and his wife know how we’re going to play, and that we’re not going to change whatever the opposition, scoreline or personnel. We couldn’t play through them with 11 so how did Arsene think we were going to do it with 10? Why not hook cunt Santos off, go 3 at the back, stick Chamakh up top with Giroud and go long. Test out a vulnerable keeper and a far from solid centre-half pairing. Go down fighting, instead of meekly, weakly and utterly accepting of our fate.
The Referee. Those that strive to blame the Ref have got it all wrong imo. The penalty was harsh but I’ve seen ’em given, the build up to the second was offside but it was marginal and wasn’t his decision anyway, and Jack got a warning prior to seeing red. The one thing he did get wrong of course was THAT tackle. Any last semblance of respect for the *berk disappeared with that challenge on a former teammate. When he turns up at the Ems, I’ll be singing both verses of THAT song, irrespective of whether the person next to me is male or female, young or old. I hope I am joined by sixty thousand others, and if you tell me you don’t think he deserves it, I’m sorry, I don’t believe you.
Make no mistake, this defeat was more dispiriting than the mauling we got up there last year. Last year was a one off, an aberration. This year spoke of a malaise far far deeper.
Great report ‘Holic. I humbly admire your restraint. I only wish I could share it. For the record, it was the inswinging yorker that always got me. Well it was until Norman Cowans decided to practice his short ball at me. Now THAT was a singularly terrifying experience!
The sun has risen here in Merica. Looks like it is still dark and bitter across the pond. Have a good day ‘Holics. It’s a Sunday at work for me, but I’ll still smile thinking about the trip that awaits me.
Please have a relaxing drink on me.
Good on you to let it out, tabs.
Can’t fault much of your writing there, salient points well made.
Good luck with your day, NorCal.
Mixed up. Muddled. Confused.
I have, on top of a gargantuan hangover, very mixed emotions this Sunday about the state of the Arsenal nation.
Normally positive, my current state of mind is certainly far from that inhabited by my good friend and uber-optimist, BtM. I am not particularly comforted by the idea that we will have a shiny stadium, state-of-the-art medical facility, great young players with potential and cash in the bank, when the season concludes in May, if all we really have to put out in public is no trophies and a subdural hematoma induced by trying the same failed approach over and over again.
I have seen Arsene Wenger described in places as tactically stubborn. I would go further than that and suggest he is showing signs of tactical dementia. To persist with this vain view that we need only worry about our own game and play the game the way we want to, was shown up yesterday, as it has been countless times, with Ferguson clearly out-thinking Wenger. It didn’t take too much thinking about either.
An equally worrying facet of yesterday’s game was how flat the team were (not a new phenomenon either as it happens). On Friday night I posted that Saturday morning would see me wake up with boundless nervous energy. We were due to play at Old Trafford, I expect most on here felt the same, and I could not wait for match time. Where was the evidence that our players felt the same? If these players cannot get up for a game against them, or indeed if the Management team cannot get them up for a game at Old Trafford, then something is badly wrong.
The scenes at half time yesterday made me sick to my stomach. The shirt swap AND Wenger making metaphorical whoopee with that cunt honestly made me want to vomit. What the hell happened to flying pizza and flying boots in the tunnel? Have we become Fergie’s bitches, like Bruce, Hughes etc from seasons past?
Arsene’s achievements and legacy to our club and the game in this country have been recounted here on innumerable occasions and quite rightly so. I cannot imagine an Arsenal without him, but I have serious concerns that he is so far down a blind alley that he cannot get out.
Believe me, if it’s me that’s having doubts, then the malaise is serious.
Sadly, I don’t think this is just a hangover.
Heh @ Holic 218.
As for the Feo situation, the ball’s in his court and he’s holding all the cards. If he doesn’t sign, it’s all well and goode to say sell him, but that won’t be as easy as that.
We may very well be able to find a taker due to his age and standing, but that doesn’t mean Theo has to agree to go there. in fact he’d be an idiot to accept a move as signing on a Bosman would entitle him to a large chunk of change as signing on fee and a highly improved weekly wage due to the absence of a transfer fee.
As I posted in the summer, the club has made a major gaff in leting this situation reach this point, if he wasn’t willing to sign then they should of off loaded him.
The question is will he change things?drop his skipper,drop ATE, poldi? he might drop santos but he will stick with tv5 thru thick and thin no offence Andre 😉 that’s the problem with arsene and I do love him, but fook me drop tv5 and santos send a message to the squad fuck up, ur out end of, captain or not.
Cheers Ollie.
I don’t disagree with any of that Dr Z, sadly. Great post.
H2H (from the last drinks) – Cheers for the kind ones. The feeling is more than reciprocated. I look forward to the day when you can finally make it back to The Tollie, and the many viral drinks can be real ones 😉
Right now for a back-drink. It aint gonna be pleasant is it! 🙁
If I had known that you had posted all that @ 232 I would have saved myself some time and just gone for a pint 😉
I pretty much thought we were in Barney when I started to feel and post in a pessimistic manner, but now to see that Tabs and Zico are not only singing from the same hymn sheet, but also seem to be doing it in the same key, makes me worry even more. 🙁
Come on you Gunners, time to buck up your ideas and play with the pride and passion that the shirt deserves. We will always love and forgive you if you lose, but to wither and roll over is unacceptable.
zico and tabs, great posts.
“What the hell happened to flying pizza and flying boots in the tunnel?”
Very good question.
What the hell happened to flying pizza…..
Santos probably ate it. 😉
H2H, you are of course right. But did he eat the boots too?
Pizza is known in marketing terms as Fast Moving Consumer Goods – how therefore could Santos be guilty? 😉
The flying pizza question is entirely valid.
It feels like we decided, circa 2005, that the way forward was to calmly and rationally impose our passing game on other teams. Fist pumping passion was not for us – we were technicians first and foremost and emotion only got in the way.
I understand the logic, but it hasn’t worked, and when we run into a better team, as per yesterday, it’s horrible to watch.
The players who have left us in recent years weren’t just very good footballers. They were also, in many cases, nasty little shits who would show their feelings and didn’t mind playing dirty when required. We need a bit of that back.
zico, because he was too slow to get out of the way?
If he’d walked into my dressing room at half time holding ANY opposition shirt, but that shirt in particular, he would have been benched immediately and my Sunday would have been spent on the phone to agents, trying to line up a deal for him to go in January.
As it is, Wenger probably didn’t see it because he was checking his neck for love bites following his own love-in with van Persie. Still, I suppose selling him for £24m gives the club more money to afford his own massive salary, so he has every right to be overjoyed at seeing Robin again.
“Hello Robin, how’s life in Manchester?”
“Loving it, thanks. How’s the new extension on the house?”
“Great”
“Super”
zico, I believe it’s the goods that are moving fast, not the consumer.
It makes sense 😉
Newcastle 1-0 up at Anfield. A real beauty of a shot from a tight angle on the half-volley by Cabaye.
Nonny, I think in the scenario you describe above I’d be less concerned about Santos holding the RVP shirt and more worried about the Arsenal manager having stuck money on his own team getting humped.
Guys. We need worry no more. All will be fine in the very near future. For those wondering what IG actually does some catching up on the club web site reveals what out tremendously industrious CEO has been up to. Some of you may already have read but I make no apology for repeating it here. You will all be delighted beyond belief that he has managed to arrange a trip in 2013 for the boys, pre season to Indonesia. That’s right, Indonesia. Now, if that does not get you full of excitement then all I can say is that you need to ask some serious questions as to where your support really lies?
Well done Ivan. You deserve every last penny of that magnificent bonus of yours. For pulling off a scoop like that we are all truly grateful. Thank you Ivan the Great.
Great stuff above from H2H, Tabs and Zico.
BtM. Never had you as one to rest on your laurels. I saw you as more progressive.
😉
Arsenal supporters who think Guardiola is coming are daft. Why would he? He doesn’t have a Xavi, Iniesta, Messi or Pique to build a team around, he won’t be able to spend 30 million when he fancies and he won’t be able to pay 175k per week to any single player. If you haven’t noticed Barcelona are still doing alright without him. The calls for Wenger out get louder, I’d only begin to listen if a better suggestion was forthcoming.
I’ll concede we’re not where I’d like us to be this morning, I also think we’re closer than so many seem to think. My biggest concern is this, changing managers is a giant roll of the dice for our club from top to bottom. There is a chance a new face could get more from what we have (20%) but more likely is giant and costly changes in personnel and approach that see us become a genuine midtable club or worse for 2-4 seasons (80%). Are you prepared to take that risk? The knee-jerk reaction is ‘Wenger’s going to take us there anyway’ but it hasn’t happened yet and I still don’t think he will.
Does anyone really believe that a new manager but similar caps on spending and wages will see us finish top to the pile that includes the current top 3 and their existing policies to transfers and wages? Is it Wenger that needs changing, or our policy? Or is patience required?
It’s too simplistic to say spend an extra 50 million in the next window, yes that might be possible but how do you pay a player 200k a week and expect nobody else to be on more than 100k?
Arsene has made mistakes, of course, one of them is probably having too much faith in very young players but again it’s working within the confines of where the club is today. I agree that he’s stubborn, I agree that tactically we could be doing more – but I don’t agree there is another manager who will do anything other than take us much lower than we want to be to get to where we want to return to. I don’t want to be he in 2015 saying “12th is a good finish considering this purchase of so and so didn’t work out and we’re getting better”.
Conversely if we were to finish 8th I think he’d step away, but we won’t.
Time to get realistic on the winter transfer window wrt diaby rosicky etc. If we do not get able replacements in terms of both quality and ability-to-remain-injury-free we are storing a lot of problems for ourselves
Negatives
– Vermaelen’s defending this season has been sub par. Wenger should consider dropping him for Koscielny and giving the armband to Arteta. I am sure he will pick up his form, but in Koscielny we actually have someone good enough to play in his place (even with a couple of dodgy games himself)
– Santos …well enough has been said. Gibbs when fit is great but we need a better replacement at LB possibly an experienced one. For now maybe change around the back four a bit. TV or Sagna at LB maybe ?
– Podolski looks off the pace, if its down to not gelling with Santos at Lb or him carrying an injury fair enough,but we need him on top of his game. With limited options for the front three. We can pray Arshavin recaptures his former glory but I won’t bet on it
– The fact that we are missing Diaby and Gibbs says it all. Two players with bags of ability but dreadful injury records. But atleast Wilshere coming back makes the former’s loss a little less damaging
– Ramsey, played out of position looks average.
Positives
– Mertesacker has been solid this season ,probably our best defender this season
– Sagna and Jenkinson give us great options at RB
– Giroud looks a good player, he just hasn’t had the service to bang in the goals with all the new players still gelling in
– Cazorla got a goal even with his quietest game. With time Wilshere and Cazorla will get better as a partnership
My concern has always been the fact that fans will run out of patience paying top prices for a team that looks unlikely to challenge for the league without a few additions to the squad. Whether that is Wenger’s fault or the board’s I don’t know. But selling your top players every season will only work for a while. We needed another striker, Wenger didn’t end up signing anyone. That may well cost us this year.
Believe me, if it’s me that’s having doubts, then the malaise is serious.
Sadly, I don’t think this is just a hangover.
Word.
Bordeaux vs Toulouse tonight.
More doom or a little cheerful result to send me on my way to Germany?
Honestly, the portents aren’t good.
That was a great post tabs.
I just cannot, for the life of me understand Arsene’s stubbornness to one system. Why can’t he just try things when we have nothing to lose?!
Haha
http://cadfael.tv/image/src/1352048707469.gif
Cheers Lars, Dr Z, SteveT.
Back drink complete, I particularly enjoyed N7’s balanced sense of perspective and H2H’s and Dr Z’s long posts which pretty much reflected where I’m at right now.
Tim @254, I admire the perspective and agree with much of it, but in truth very few of us, at least on this site, are calling for Arsene’s head. The thought of the Board’s present policy without Arsene there to conjure a rabbit out of a hat is not a prospect that I look forward to with any relish. That general support however does not mean that he is above criticism.
There are things going on at the moment, which have nothing to do with available funds, and everything to do with football, and only football.
The decision to persist with Santos after his performance in the second half against Norwich and from the start against Schalke defies credible explanation. It simply cannot be defended. Santos is a cheat. He is cheating himself, his manager and us. What message does his continued selection send out to the rest of the squad?
Other decisions, the persistence with Vermaelen, Ramsey on the flank, the tactical rigidity, whilst not inducing the same level of incredulity, are very very hard to justify.
It might just be me but I thought that Arsene’s usually furrowed brow was replaced in large part by a look of resignation, almost acceptance, for much of yesterday. In the circumstances is it any wonder that at least half of the side were so passive at the prospect of defeat? Dr Z’s longing for some flying pizza was spot on.
Make no mistake, these are worrying times for those of us who retain a huge affection and respect for Arsene, and who still wish to see him succeed.
Arthur, Happy birthday.
Operation Test is underway…
Thanks Harsha.
Contributions like that make this blogging lark worthwhile TaBS.
Thank you.
Cheers ‘Holic, and you Sir, and you.
All these thanks and not a drink in sight, come on!
How did I guess Le Girondin would be around this evening 😉
Previous post deleted? Disappeared! Bring back Dreamy Dave!
“There are things going on at the moment which have nothing to do with available funds and everything to do with football, and only football.”
Precisely.
*Applauds*
H2H @ 229, tabs @ 235, zico @ 236 and tim @ 254 – you read my mind and know my inner despair – double Macallans on the bar for y’all.
Slainte
and since you are clearly thirsty, one for you too Ollie 😉
@261 – I assume you think Wenger is still the man for the job, but bearing in mind all the decisions you don’t understand are his and his alone, that he shows no willingness to change anything, no tactical grasp and so on, I don’t understand why you still think he is the right man for the job.
There’s the Mersey Derby, and then there’s the Garonne Derby. Two towns only 240km apart. Mind you, Toulouse is still the nearest Ligue 1 Club at the moment.
heh ‘holic.
Cheers, baff.
Bath,
Cardhu £8 off at Sainsbury. Guessing you would appreciate more than I.
I stuck with Blackbush, also on offer. Forgive me 😉
Just bought a Glenmorangie Nectar D’Or, 15 year old extra matured in Sauterne casks for £30.
That discussion Friday night with Joe about the D’Yqum cask matured Glenmorangie as the best I ever tasted vs his 21 Year old Blackbush plus the need for a ‘pick me up’ meant I had to have it. It’s as close as I’ll ever get to another taste of the D’Yquem casked cratur! 🙂
Holic, I wil always forgive you.
Les Girondins in English.
Be ready to splat the bloody pop-ups.
http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/151047/3/watch-girondins-bordeaux-vs-toulouse.html
Arghhhhhh, NO!
Shake hands Allen is working on ESPN frogball coverage.
£500 a word – Hope they were joking. Won’t be able to shut the fucker up.
Looks a good Bordeaux team.
@218 goonerholic
geez, man, did you read the second part of that post?
Right daytrip to Spu*s booked. We’d better win.
I’ll try to do an overnight for Swansea. However nice it is not to have to travel with a bag, it’s sometimes frustrating to not be able to hang around for (more) drinks.
Ah! I see I read that post right. Your formulation didn’t make it obvious though, matt.
@272
– because he is responsible for providing me with sumptuous football for the last 16 (yes 16) years
– because I don’t hold him responsible for the financial constraints that he has been acting under these last 9 years.
– because I recognise that he has mostly done a fantastic job in the last seven years.
– because I don’t swallow any of the simplistic nonsense that the last seven years have been one gigantic failure. The reasons for our failure to land a trophy in each of the last 7 seasons have been many and vary from season to season.
– because whether people like it or not top four is a bigger prize now than either the FA Cup or League Cup and Arsene has delivered without fail.
– because all that I can ask is that we challenge for the silver. With the exception of last season we have done that in each of Arsene’s seasons.
– because he is an intelligent,honourable and deeply interesting man, and I love having him as the premier spokesman of our Club.
– because I trust him to get it right, and would rather have him than any of the suggested alternatives.
Of course he’s not infallible. I’m not a member of the Arsenal Taliban, and of course I’ll dig him out when I think he’s getting it wrong. That is the nature of the football fan, we all think we can do the job better, when clearly none of us can. Blind support is as stupid as blind criticism, it is divisive and most importantly it is counter-productive. But just because I’ll speak up when I think he’s getting it wrong does not mean that I want him gone. I don’t.
@269
Cheers Dr Z
@270
Cheers Bath. A Double Macallan is just what the Doctor ordered.
Yep, decent line-up ‘holic (only big surprise is Planus not playing), but Toulouse are the form team. And they have Snir’s friend in the middle (Capoue).
How the fuck is that a dive?
Sadly, ‘holic, the replay suggests it might have been. And that’s me saying it….
Still, a couple of positive moves leave me hopeful.
Heh, dive by Goucfran and Akpo booked. Two wrongs, and all that.
How the fuck did he save that?
How the fuck did he save the follow up from Plasil?
tabs, you lost me at point three.
Each to their own Nonny.
Cheers Steve T & Bath.
Tabs, masterclass as always.
Fuck me there are some halfwits about. Why can’t people think for them fucking selves?
TaBS and Nonny. Good to see you engaging with the civility so often missing elsewhere. Knowing you both I am not surprised. Shame you don’t know each other. You would get along.
A quick look in and looks the mood is still dour. Could be worse fellas, you could be at work. ;).
Good post TABs. Wish I could join in on the whiskey tasting. Hope for a Boudreaux win.
Cheers.
Tabs @ 282 applies nail to head.
Some terrific drinks in the bar today. Thank god for this establishment – I looked in on a couple of other boozers this morning and they appeared to be serving warm beer (super-heated in some cases) and playing the Spice Girls greatest hits on the jukebox.
Roll on Tuesday night. I’m hoping to see some corrective action. TV at left back and Kos in the centre would appear a no brainer in terms of both recent performances and squad politics.
As a fully paid up member of The International Society of Half Wits I’d like to offer an apology. 😉
Heh 😉
Decent first half, but no goal to show for it, sadly.
I’d still put in a cheeky bid for Trémoulinas in January.
Your 278 has reminded me that cunt used to play (briefly) for Bordeaux, ‘holic.
H2H,
If you would just pay your dues twice you could be a full wit.
Me I just pay 1/2. I’m a nitwit.
Ball across the middle ..,.
Bammm
Nearly got an inadvertent assist. Good move NorCal. H2H
Even a nitwit and a halfwit can score in this game. Guess that explains manures 2 goals Saturday.
Nice goal H2H. Never in doubt.
*keeps his wits about*
Song and Gervinho nominated for African Footballer of the year.
(along with 8 others)
No to matches on Friday. What’s that all about then, Ollie?
Cricket is a poofs game. Even the boundary’s bent
What is what, ‘holic 306? :s
-not sure how ‘matches on Friday’ arrived in the conversation. Is the question related to that?
Evening neighbour.
Heh, they just described Carrasso as the former Crystal Palace goalkeeper. He played one match for them on loan from Marseille in 2001/2.
I have to say Dugarry is still an excellent pundit.
All of Arsenal’s home matches are to be played on Friday nights from 2014 to cater for the septic market.
Was on SSN earlier
Banner in the crowd, Ollie. No to matches on Friday.
Ah, missed that shot. Well it says what it says on the banner 😉
Friday matches in Ligue 1 are a novelty from this season (bar the odd match played on Friday that’s happened for a few years, sometimes, for teams playing in the CL the following Tuesday).
As you know, Friday night is not for football 😉
heh Neighbour
Some people have one real name, one drinks name and one (sorry, many) arses name(s).
I am feeling quite normal and one with myself.
I don’t think it’s funny Ollie, imagine the carnage if ‘h has been on the sauce all day
Very clever from Plasil there.
Right you miserable B of Cs, try clicking on this on not smiling:
https://twitter.com/Lagvilava7/status/265087553932242944/photo/1
UTA!
Nice one TS 😀
Hooray! A smiley face 😆
Cheers TS …..:-)
Switched to Canal+ as ESPN seems to have been Allen’d.
I can’t get that on my telly
Load of problems reloading the drinks.
Yellow card to the ‘keeper for timewasting after 74 minutes. I say that’s the way forward, well played ref.
In other news, Toulouse haven’t had a shot on target yet.
You know the inevitable thing that is coming 🙁
Ob no, Failkillah 🙁
heh TS.
Arteta’s hair all wrong though ;D
He had a good start to the season, ‘holic, unusually. Got injured, came back not long ago though and seems to have reverted to type.
When you’re on a roll….
https://twitter.com/i/#!/Lagvilava7/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FJdEcfTz3
This guy is REALLY good, isn’t he?
YES!
Now let’s not do the usual last-minute fuck-up.
Yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!
That was in deference to Ollie’s Arteta hair comment.
That new haircut is quite spectacular indeed,TS.
And finally….
https://twitter.com/i/#!/Lagvilava7/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FBcBWiC4d
Bouldie & Arsene swap hair? Hilarious.
Hooray, no last minute panic this time, zero shot against on targer means no goal conceded.
Deserved win.
Now to go to Germany and for Arsenal to wake up.
C’est magnifique 😉
You going to Schalke Ollie? We can’t fail to win. Allez les Travelling Faithful
Now that hair swap is scary more than hilarious, TS. I am now traumatised.
There was some good stuff in there TS.
Santos was a Brazilian international so surely at some point in his career he was capable of playing at a reasonable level? As with Song and Eboue, when they become objects of derision, the fault lies not entirely with the player.
It seems it is ok to drive at 140 mph and eat fish and chips as long as you can tackle and kick a ball in a straight line. It even affords a player cult status.
I have discovered something else to moan about. So we’re a club who have a sustainable economic model and adhering to FFP is one of our key ambitions. So to compete with the big teams every £1 we spend has to be spent wisely.
So we have Ryo, Samuel Galindo, Wellington and Joel Campbell on our books. Ryo is barely making an impression at Wigan. The other three can’t get work permits and Galindo and Wellington are playing in the Spanish 2nd division.
I would love to proved wrong, but I doubt none of them will ever become a first team regular. I don’t know how much it is costing the club to scout and develop non-EU players but wouldn’t investing £10-15 million on one proven 1st team player be better value for money? At least players like Sanchez Watt, Eastmond and Lansbury can be moved on to Championship clubs when they don’t make the grade.
I’m getting bored with the Theo saga. Zaha will replace him if he goes.
*puts Leonard Cohen back on the jukebox*
I thought so H2H 🙂
My away record is less than fabulous, TS. Even in Europe, though there has been an improvement over the last two years.
I am appalled at the standard of spelling in Journalism.
http://www.francefootball.fr/#!/news/2012/11/04/225907_toulouse-dans-le-creu-de-la-vague.html
I hope they change that within the next 2 minutes. (the word is ‘creux’ not ‘creu’)
Heh, they’re obviously so unsure of their spelling that have changed the title to ‘Toulouse rate la marche’.
Then it’s a good opportunity for change Ollie 😉
Some of The Tollie crew are driving there. You’ll have a blast win, lose or draw but hopefully, we won’t lose. At least you’ll get to sing for 95 mins.
Yeah, I think there will be a good crowd. A few more arsebloggers than in Montpellier too, I believe.
Right, goodnight all. I should be back in the morning as my train is only at 12.
Ok Holic, Your post. Last sentence in the second paragraph. The Lesson. Got it! 🙁 I am the definition of Half Wit…but I do it so well 🙂 Nite everyone. Oh and Ollie, sometime ago, I called upon Zico to cheer you up. And he did. Please return him the favour, pronto 🙂
OK.
Cheer up, zico! 😀
“Zaha will replace him if he goes.”
That’s replace him in the same way a Raleigh Chopper would “replace” a Ducati superbike.
A Ducati Superbike whose owner won’t trust it to start races and often misfires when it gets the occasional start.
tab@282 – Good on yer, sir.
Great work above from H2H, Tabs several times, and zico. Agree with every word, apart from the bits which may upset van Persie’s children.
Good Twatter links TS. 🙂
Still angry and fed up here, I’m afraid.
My first observation yesterday was that we looked like a team who were expecting and accepting that we would be beaten.
There was no fight, no drive, no leadership, except in his own quieter, calmer way from Mertesacker. Tabs mentioned the individuals who could absolve themselves from blame, but so many were lacking urgency, concentration or fitness, that the others were pissing into the wind.
Santos, a player I loved last season, had already blotted a filthy dirty copy book, before kick-off. Never mind the disgraceful half-time shirt swop, he progressed at the pre-match handshake to second base with van Persie, as their laughing embrace stopped just short of ‘tongues’.
The inclusion of Ramsey on the right wing induced despair and anger. Talk about effing surrender. We had Theo on the bench – but wait, he had played for two hours in the middle of the week.
Yes he had, and if he wasn’t fit he shouldn’t have done. He is twenty two years old, for God’s sake, had a brilliant game at Reading (second half and extra time, of course) and must have been champing at the bit to carry on scoring.
This constant rotating of in form players does my head in, and it’s not like it has resulted in our having a brilliant injury record. And please don’t tell me a twenty two year old is in the red zone after two hours football.
As long as we are paying Theo whatever we are paying him, he should be on the pitch, in his position, every time before Ramsey. This sitting him on the naughty step, game after game, is just self harming.
I agree that the defeat yesterday was almost more dispiriting than last year’s, because looking at the personnel involved, our expectations were justifiably so much higher, if not for the result then at least for the performance.
The resignation of the team and, apparantly, the manager was shocking.
My thoughts on Arsene Wenger are desribed perfectly by Tabs above.
One other observation wouldn’t stop irritating me yesterday though, and I’m probably going to get a bit of stick for it.
I found Arsene’s concern in the week, that van Persie should be shown respect on Saturday, more than surprising in the light of the summer’s events. His greeting of him during the game, coupled with the rumours that he and Gazidis are not exactly geeat mates, and the fact that he and Dein still are, made me wonder if games of a quite different kind were kicking off in the summer, after all.
Something in me refuses to believe that Arsene would ever deliberately, even temporarily, damage the club that he has given so much to.
Something in the club is not right though.
The team’s inconsistency on the pitch is as mystifying as the shenanigans off it.
I am finding it hard to believe that the two are not connected.
Some top quality stuff in the drinks above. I won’t call you out, you know who you are.
“You know who you are,
You know who you are,
All the top drinkers,
You know who you are”
Hic.
Tabs@282: this.
There is an apt line in Michael Cox’s piece in So Paddy Got Up, “Wenger is the manager that every fan wants to be in control of their club long-term, but arguably not the man to win individual contests.”
Trev@352: I wonder (on the basis of zero information) whether this isn’t just the club becoming run more and more like a U.S. pro sports franchise. The folks with deep roots in both the club and football have, one by one and for various reasons, gone or stepped back. Those that have replaced them are cut from different cloth. That is not to say they don’t try to do their best. I’m sure they do. But it is a job, not a vocation. They could do it equally at another club or in another sport. After all these years, AW has dropped Arsenal roots and he is nothing if not a passionate football man through and through.
Re: Arse Down Under @165. Knock a ball around a golf course in New Zealand? Are you trying to make us jealous because I think you just succeeded. Great drinks by Tabs, H2H and many more.
NBN,
Football business opportunity is about to explode. THe days of vocation are dead. Business nouse is king. Match day attendance will shortly be an irrelevance in terms of financing. The future is television, merchandising and the Arsenal brand. Commercial association of the brand with enterprises that we haven’t even heard of yet will drive the future success of the club.
Indonesia’s population is already five times that of the UK. It will grow to 270 million by 2020. Of that number, the majority will be under 30 and, as such, prime prospects for a lifelong association with a football brand. The question is, will it be “Arsenal”?
Brands that can capture some real share of the 1.5 billion population growth on the planet forecast by 2040 will win in the long term. Arsenal’s trip to Indonesia is the first pebble in the pond. If the club can grow the brand there (in China, Nigeria and India) successfully, the ripple will grow to a breaker and then to a Tsunami in terms of its significance.
Steve T and the kids will be able to go to match games for free (although Steve will have to be at his wiliest to gat the tickets). Gate money will pale into insignificance against the greenbacked wall of financial flow that the emerging economies will dispense to great brands. Bow at the feet of the great Gazidis, Steve.
And you think I’m joking?
BtM@180
OK, I have taken a little time away from the bar to have a good old think and I hope I can put more clearly what it is I am such a hot cross bunny about…
Firstly, however, let me respond to a couple of your points:
1. It is really unfair to claim that I admire Manchester United. I actually despise them more than the Spuds and never admired them even when they were a damned good side. Put simply, a Man U player tends to be of a specific type of personality, regardless of who or what they were before they joined the club, that oozes an arrogance and a disdain for the game itself that I don’t see anything to genuinely admire.
2. I am aware of where we stand in the league cup, the Champions League and every other competition we are entered into for that matter. I am also unsure that your admirable faith in Wenger’s ability to pull a rabbit out of the hat like last season is well founded. I, at no point if you read back again, screamed Wenger Out or anything like it, More than anything I questioned the likelihood of this being a long hard and fruitless season that may well see us out of the top 4 and maybe worse.
I appreciate that there is a difference of opinion between us on this point, but that doesn’t necessarily constitute an error on my part. Well, not until the end of the season anyway at which point we will all have the immense benefit of hindsight and probably a few more grey hairs to boot.
3. I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about when you say that I love to deride our recent record. Having been a fan of the club for the past 33 years or so, I would call recent the George Graham era and I am well aware of just how awful a team we were back then. Well, at least at times. What I am trying to say here is that I have not tried to deride our record, but was asked to defend myself from the point of view of another person regards who has won the premiership sicne we last did and without any reference to any of the other competitions that we have been enetered into as if only huge amounts of money being spent guarantee success. There is clearly a significant advantage in this approach and the majority of the trophies do go to those that spend the big money, although that was still true when United were buying huge names and we were still competing for titles and, mores the point, competing with THEM.
And that brings me nicely on to what I have come up with these past 24 hours or so…
I am pissed right off that a club in the state that United are in, both off and on the pitch, for the first time in decades, can turn us over so fucking easily simply by exploiing the weaknesses and the areas of the pitch where WE ALL KNEW We would end up being deficient before the season even started!
Relying on Gibbs, Diaby and Rosicky to fill berths for anything like a season was surely bad planning. Allowing their replacements to be the likes of Santos, negligence.
I am not asking us to buy Ronaldo and Messi every summer. I am not asking us to get rid of all the kids and fill the team with superstar players like Citeh and Chelski do. I am simply asking that we replace quality with quality, improve the team with some of the PROFITS that the club is making and get back to being a FOOTBALL CLUB again before we slip so far behind our rivals that FFP will make absolutely zero difference because a financial package without a successful team is not going to be enough to tempt the Hazards & Matas to come nor The Rotters and the Cescs to stay.
Whilst I appreciate I am still not backing down from my original points, I hope that I have at least managed to explain my feelings a little more clearly, and calmly, than I was before.
Oh, and by the way, I have NEVER been a “doomer”…Quite the opposite in fact. If required, I can prove it. Fire a mail to ‘Holic and ask him to pass you my e-mail address that I use here. Would be happy to speak to you more openly via that medium if you would like.
Anyway, fingers crossed for Schalke…
LET’S SEE SOME OF THAT PASSION NOW!
BTM.
Understand your point & don’t disagree the future will be very different, with any hope I’LL be long gone & won’t see it, as I’m barely keeping the love of the game with all the changes in the last 10 years or so as it is!!!
Can you imagine the petulant cxxt’s even more millions of £££ paid in wages to them will create in the NEXT evolution of players, please give me the BLUE PILL now so I can wake in my own bed…..
Why do you assume all this money will be heading in the direction of the PL clubs?
Surly with all this NEW money becoming available from in the Far East t THEY will want their OWN clubs to support in the new WORLD League?
BtM@357: the era of TV money is already here. Premiership’s first TV rights contract: £304 million over five seasons; latest: £3 billion over three seasons.
Lee@359: You raise an interesting point about the location of clubs in the future. They are already getting loosened from their roots. Players and owners are less local than ever. Same is true for the fans and thus the revenue base. American pro sports has shown a club/franchise can up sticks and move to greener pastures — and we’d be a pot calling a kettle black if we didn’t acknowledge our own little contribution to that phenomenum. It may well be that the Arsenal Gunners, the Manchester Red Devils or the Real Madrid Galacticos could be as easily based in Shanghai, Los Angeles or Jakarta as in London, Manchester or Madrid for all or part of the year.
1. I don’t want Wenger to go.. I want him promoted to Director of Football. Get a new manager who are not afraid to try new tricks. When we were down 2-0 with maybe 10 minutes left… we still pass, pass, pass… Do our player think they can score 2 goals like that within 10 minutes.? Or they already give up? Why not long balls? Afraid to lose possession? what is the difference between 2-0 and 3-0? It is not the fault of the players,,, they were instructed by our manager to play like that. Wenger is not good at tactics… so I want a new manager. Someone like Michael Laudrup will be happy to join us .
2. Arsene, even if you are worrying… just do show it on your face… It does not inspire confidence on our players.
3. Santos is unforgivable. he thinks RVP scoring against Arsenal is so memorable that he wanted his shirt … AT HALF TIME !!!! He should never play for us again.
4. Same old story every year… different players and the same manager. it is logical to conclude our manager is responsible. Some friend say wenger’s hands are tied because of fundings. Really? We still have one of the highest 3 wage bills in PL… We should be able to attract good players.
5. If wenger goes… what can be worse except without a CL place ?
NBN.
In lots of ways it can’t happen quickly enough for me cos when the yank’s fuck off with their franchises, maybe then we can reclaim our clubs & get back to enjoying what brought to support our teams in the first place + I’m looking forward to supporting Highbury FC in the near future.
Please fuck off soon Stan & all your mates & leave us to it, cos I’m really NOT interested in all this corporate bollox & never will be!!!
Great news BTM. So whilst we stop the steady flow of our first team towards Spain and Manchester all we achieve is to re-direct if towards Indonesia? Well at least that is something I guess.
😉
Trev, 352, you think too much, you need to sleep on this weekend 😉
I think that with the possible exception of Adebayor (I’m not even sure), Wenger has also played the class card regarding the reception of players who have left, be it in acrimonious circumstances.
As for the connection between on and off pitch. Well, the main one I see is that RvCunt left for demanding stuff off the pitch.
The idea of AW temporarily damaging the club, now that’s on a par with Elvis being still alive: he could simply leave and that would do far more damage. And if Fat&Orange were in, he could still come back at the Messiah.
Now, I DO think not all is well within the club, and we seem a bit stuck in a rut, and finding it harder to shake, despite the early-season beliefs. But then, there WERE these early-season beliefs, ll, I don’t see what has changed off the pitch, and apart from some crucial injuries and an interlull, I’m confused as to why we have become so lethargic (comeback against Reading excepted).
They all need a brainwash.
Well, I hope Monday sees you less melancolic and more forward-looking anyway.
Safe travels Ollie.
iwantmyarsenalback: the day Wenger no longer manges Arsenal, there is no way he can stay at the club in any capacity at all. He would cast such a shadow over whoever takes over (unless that person is Alex Ferguson perhaps but somehow I feel that is not very likely to happen 🙂 ) that he could never do a proper job.
Thanks, Steve. Another half-hour before I leave home.
Oh yes, I’m lazy, don’t like to wake up too early if not necessary 😉
Ticket just turned up in the post for Schalke.Price on ticket 25 euro’s,price paid to touts in Malta 265 euro’s.Not a bad mark up for them,but then they have been able to get hold of a ticket for a match that no Red Member could get from the club.Unfair, but money made the difference between me getting or not getting the ticket.So tomorrow morning Ryanair Marseille Dusseldorf.
http://www.francefootball.fr/#!/news/2012/11/05/081619_materazzi-a-retrouve-zizou.html
heh, fair play
Excellent news, washed up! They take their cut then. Safe travels.
I’ve got to learn French so I can read all those articles that Ollie keeps posting links to 🙂
washed up, that is a lot of money but at least they didn’t shaft you completely and not send you a ticket. Hope you are rewarded with a good performance and three Arsenal points!
On my way. See you back wednesday night (or thursday)
Have a good trip, Ollie!
Have a good trip Andy 😉
Weissbeer rules, Ollie.
Enjoy.
PS – nice one at 348 😀
Wotcher folks. Great post and some excellent drinks as well. Love you Tabs! Excellent stuff – (I once faced Winston Benjamin when we went on tour to Cheshire – fucking terrifying that was.) Have a good trip Ollie.
Dunnoe how I feel at the moment. Something aint right thats for sure, but I do honestly believe that fucking kit has got something to do with it. Ever since we started wearing those monstrous away kits, white, blue, now fucking purple, we’ve looked fucking garbage. And thats before we’ve even kicked a fucking ball!
Still aint gonna stop me following the club, in person when I can which wont be often enough.
@357 Yeaaaaah – and let’s go chase the South Korean Won (their currency, don’t you know) too – why we’re about it # SellingYourSeoulToTheDevil
*Once upon a wassermame Birds was always a tweeting (no not that), sun was always a shining – and supporting YOUR football team was mostly fairly innocent fun – (with a little heart-break thrown in too), and mostly concerned with what went on on the pitch. Oil well!* #MaybesI’mGettingTooOldForAllTheNoisesOff/AccompanyingBolloxThingies
Proper free-wifi in 1st class. Cheaper trains. Food and wine still. Thalys > Eurostar. I’m on my way to Germany via Belgium.
Safe trip Ollie and Washed Up. Give ’em a cheer for us all, and make sure you bring home the bacon.
AL – We’re all gettin’ old mate, nature of the beast. Still, not too old for The Tollie eh 😉 Already looking forward to the next one. What was it that young ‘un bought us both at last knockings after QPR? Guinness with a Brandy poured in?
Now THAT made me feel old!
Essssssoooooo – Wotcha mate. With you there all the way. Winston Benjamin was indeed a terrifying creature. Another fucker that I faced was a chap called Wayne Daniel, off the pitch a nicer man you couldn’t wish to meet, on the pitch absolutely fear-inducing. I’m pretty sure that when I went out to bat I was wearing Whites. When I returned to the Pavilion in double quick time, I’m pretty sure they had taken on a rather different hue!
H2H, N7, dkgooner, Trev, Ned, 8Ball – Cheers for the kind ones fellas.
Guinness with brandy in it? Bleuurgh, that sounds disgusting!
Heh tabs … was that what it was – blimey. No wonder the train door got the better of me when i did the disembarking bit at the other end.
And well played you, Zee, H2H and others – for holding them thoughts, and having the wit to write ’em out loud…
We all follow the Arsenal over land and sea – and Shanghai – we all follow the Arsenal…etc., ad infinitum, etc.
If a man does not do the disembarking bit, mean, that he is just plain old barking?
Would explain a lot…… 8)
Or as it should have read
If a man does not do the disembarking bit, does it mean that he is just plain old barking?
Feckin stoopid keyboard….operator.
It was Lars. Can’t swear it was Brandy, I was already 3 sheets to the wind when it turned up. My only real memory was that it was like a Jagerbomb but with Guinness. I drank it and three minutes later I was, like AL, staggering for the way home. Maybe the young ‘un just wanted to get rid of us! 🙂
AL, Dr Z Hehs 🙂
Barking – ahem, that’s me preferred station at the mo zee – and we both know we ain’t necessarily talking trains, neither. Bwbabwbbwbabwbabwbabwbabbwaaaaaaaaaaa
AFC und CMC ’til i dye – me hair/shirt
Heh tabs, maybe they did want to get rid of you but then again I suppose you would have to be pretty wankered already to be able to stand the taste of that combo of drinks so maybe it was just the final straw 🙂
@362
We do not have the third highest wage bill in the prem.
We did, four or five seasons ago. Nowadays I believe we are 4th or 5th (certainly behind chelsea and the manc clubs). With the lowest net transfer spend in the league.
There are things the manager has got wrong lately, but let’s not pretend he’s operating on a level playing field or underachieving based on spend.
No sooner was the question raised in 384/5 and the answer was there in all its splendour @ 387.
A box of frogs? Clearly saner. 😛
N7: it’s also difficult to compare total wages since different clubs include different categories of staff in there. Arsenal include every single employee of the club (from Gazidis to the playing staff to the kitchen staff at Colney etc) but other clubs only include the players since technically the others are employed by a different employer, and some clubs use Image Rights quite extensively (like ManU for example, this is a way of avoiding tax and does not show up as wages in the accounts) while I believe Arsenal do not use them at all, some clubs pay hefty sign-on fees in liue of wages (which, as I understand it, can help avoid some tax for non-UK players) making the wages look lower than they actually are etc.
Heh@390!
Good points Lars, N7.
Thanks for all the B day wishes holics, still recovering!
Have a safe trip Ollie and bring us back 3 points, please.
Thanks for the kind words gents, appreaciated.
Various hehs and chuckles at Z and AL.
Enjoy your trip Ollie.
Glad you got your ticket sorted, washed’, but, gaaaawd damn that’s some mark up!
BtM, I fully agree with your prognosses for the future, it’s already been set in motion. But to take full advantage of these new market opportunities the club has to, to use a Steve T-ism, be the best it can be.
The noveaux fan will have no geographical or anciesterial ties with any particular club so when choosing a new outfit to support they will invariably pick a winning team, history will not matter a jot in todays “I want it now” consumer market. That will mean that this year a lot of new fans will be inticed and hooked by Man Citeh and the Chavs.
It’s all well and good that Arsenal are being run like a good business, but it will be all for nothing if those with their hands on the coffers forget that the business of Arsenal is first and foremost football.
To put it in it’s most basic terms, Trophies = Fans.
Spot on there H2H. They do need to factor a meaningful trophy into the ‘business plan’.
The ‘be the best you can be’ campaign is certainty starting to take off at long last. What a visionary I seem to have become?
And with that exceptional vision, spots the pass to put it on a plate………
Bang!
Get in there!
*Pulls t-shirt over head to reveal “Robin, you’re a berk*” undershirt*
I’ve seen it all before.
Does that make me re-visionary?
H2H and bath,
That’s what has baffled me as well. With the commercial deals all coming up, you would think it would loosen the purse strings a little for 2 reasons: The knowledge that better deals are coming, so better income and knowing that a winning team makes that income higher. I preached in the summer that we needed to really make a statement and show intent on a better product because it would greatly help the marketing team. If we are a business, then that is one of the first principles of business. If our kit contract doubles then that makes up almost half of the money for a CL spot, so if top 4 is so important then shouldn’t maximizing marketing potential be just as important?
Ollie and washed up,
Safe travels. Enjoy the experience.
@398 All hail prophet Steve.
@400 Well in N7
@402 All hail, tries to make a profit Dr F. 😉
Steve hits the cross from out wide and N7 heads home! Well played lads, well played.
Is that an Arsenal headstone I can see in the distance? 😉
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/schalke-open-official-club-cemetery-fans-show-undying-105903057.html
zico@402: and if Ollie looks out the window while under the channel on one of his many Eurostar travels, does that make him a tunnel visionary?
My point above is that by spending (investing) a pound now, we will get back 2 pounds on that investment with better corporate deals. Keep scrimping and hurting the performance on the field and that saved money in the bank will not grow.
Do we want to be like Liverpool? A club with a storied history but is scraping for scraps. Or do we want to really move Forward like our badge said last year? We must adapt in all phases of the business both on and off the field to really move Forward.
The only last thing I will question is our state of the art medical facility and team. What I don’t understand is why we seem to have players out for 3-6 weeks continually. A slight niggle to an arsenal player is a minimum month off the pitch. Why? I am not a world class athlete but I think we are too cautious when treating our players. AOC for example, all I saw when he got hurt was a bit of a awkward coming together of players an he tweaked his hip. Now we have no idea when he is coming back. Gibbs, a slight strain of his quad. Szczceny an ankle injury, he has missed 10 games. My question is, why does it take so long for our players to come back from niggles and strains?
NorCal, we might get two pounds back on that investment. There are no guarantees, and naming Liverpool is, if anything, a counter-argument to what you are saying seeing as how they have spent like crazy in later years more or less for the sake of it and gotten progressively worse until this season where they at least are playing better and showing some signs of recovery.
Our preparation is a mystery to me, NorCal.
Remember when Gallas was out for 4 MONTHS with a thigh strain, caused by taking an extra shot at the end of training ?
Ollie, you may be right – I should stop thinking so much.
Can you also explain such a sudden and total loss of form ?
Enjoy the trip tomorrow.
I can still laugh at AL though. 🙂
Marvellous madness, and very difficult to do.
If anyone hasn’t met him, he talks just like that too. 😉
H2H@ 396 – i reckon that’s just one good reason among a myriad of complex cultural and economic reasons why the American sports franchise model thingy would be a massively difficult/problematic fit globally.
Plus there would inevitably be unforeseen equal (ish) and opposite (ish) reactions elsewhere, the like of which Lee@ 359 touches on above. (It’s starting to happen in China already, isn’t it? They’ve got their own teams, league and Didier Drogba, i hear.)
The corporate types can have their conversations with themselves (remember the extra prem game that was gonna be played abroad?), indulge in their ivory/trump-type tower ideas – then they’ll run into what the rest of us think/want.
Certainly football in Europe is going to become even more pan-European, i would think. And I reckon club sides from all over the world will probably play each other on a more regular basis.
But if anything the prevailing wind, as regards the way clubs are run, seems to be blowing as muchly in the direction of the German model, don’t it? With more localish fan involvement/ownership and all that. (Not suggesting that’ll happen with us now, by the way.)
There’s money to made from the faraway foreign fan, and it would foolish to ignore that. But a club shouldn’t move too far away from its heartbeat – i think – and not just for sentimental reasons, but for good business ones too: If it’s a brand you’re selling its core values/history etc. must not be forgotten – and should be used to re-generate the thing over and over – distance yourself too far from these things and it wilts, withers and gets replaced.
I’m old enough to appreciate that in the medium to longish term things rarely work out in the way that bar-room commentators and self-appointed experts would have us believe anyways…
Bollox – promised meself i wouldn’t go near this sort of stuff again. I know not what i’m talking about, really. And in truth am not sure i’m alone in that, re these matters – in relation to OUR club.
Up The Arse
NorCal,
George Graham had the answer to fixing niggles and strains.
Took the TV out of the treatment room, turned off the heating and made them all report for treatment three times a day, with the final session at 5.00 pm.
Worked a treat. 😉
Too kind Trev (I think). Looking forward to cheerier times when you’ve recovered your pun-filled bounce sir.
Psed – that longish post above was written in a weak moment. A form of Arsenal inspired (is that the right word?) heavy-hearted displacement/ transference stuff i reckon. And for that i can only apologize. And recommend you don’t read it – as, as i more-or-less say at the end – i don’t now what the fek i’m talking about.
Now – moustache! Bye.
NorCal.
I’m no doctor, nor an athlete for that matter, but I have a feeling the injuries may have something to do with the footwear todays players don.
I remember when I was a kid, footy boots were sturdy, they offered support to your ankles and protection to your toes. I was in a sports shop in Amsterdam last week and I had a pair of those new fandangled, flourescent gizmos in my hands, they were flimsey, felt more like a womans fluffy slipper then a boot, behalf from the studs underneath you may as well be playing barefoot
It’s no wonder we hear so much about broken metatarsals and things like that, bones I’d never even heard of before.
Oh, and have a good’un Ollie…
Trev@412, I think we’ll have to reinstate that rehab regimen!
AL@411, amen to that.
Lars,
Fair enough on we might get back 2. And the comparison to Liverpool.
No INVESTMENT is without risk, just ask any one who has made any investment about that. I am not advocating just throwing money around and hope something works out. Liverpool threw money at anything that had 2 feet and a British passport. Well we see what they got.
What I am saying( however poorly) is that a net positive or even money in the transfer market at this point knowing we will have more money coming in thru the corporate side is too risk adverse. We are playing it too safe hoping to save for a rainy day. Well, by continually saving we are actually increasing the chances that it might rain.
Again, I am not saying we should go crazy and spend it all and hope the team clicks but we all saw this season and how the entire squad was shaping up and knew we would most likely need a completely injury free year to compete. And that ties in with my other point. I think we are too conservative with our players and their rehab from injury. These two policies together hamstring us ( sorry) every year.
I am proud to be a Gooner but it frustrates us all at some level.
Crap boots and rock hard pitches are the cause of all the injury woes. Training pitches are the same as the pitch in the stadium and that is reportedly very hard with very little give
NorCal, I should perhaps have added that in general I do agree, if we have more money to invest we really should have tried to put it to use. Saving for a rainy day can, just like you say, go too far in the other direction.
As for rehab times, I’m not sure they are longer than for other clubs – it’s just that we have so many inuries that we suffer more in total. And the number of injuries is perhaps our biggest problems because we do have a pretty good squad but with seven-eight players constantly out that doesn’t matter. Chelsea have hardly had six injuries all season, we would be happy to have as little as six players out for any one game…
Nonny, I have played at the Emirates and yes, the pitch is very hard.
Oops, gotta dash! Drinks on the bar for all.
Pretty well said AL, even if you “don’t now what the fek” you’re talking about. 😉
The German model would be the best to follow, but I don’t think the PL is trying to do that. PL clubs are pricing the tradition fan base out of the market, the working class can’t afford to go up and down the country anymore. To go to a match in Germany is nowhere near as expencive as it is in England. Look at the (face value) price of Washed up’s ticket, €25. The average price of a Bundesliga ticket ranges between €15-€24.
I have punters here who have season tickets for their Ere Divisie clubs. The Ajax supporter paid €225 and thae AZ fan, also a good mate pays €210, for a great seat in the sfeer vak (roughly translated the atmosphere section) just behind the goal.
Ok, I ummed and arghed about posting this yesterday, firstly because I wasn’t sure that it was a suitable subject for here, secondly because I didn’t think the timing was suitable, and thirdly, and most importantly, because I wasn’t sure I could do the subject justice. But I’ve written it now, so here goes. I apologise in advance for some of the language used, but after reading it I hope you will agree that without it the piece would not give the true flavour of what it attempts to describe.
Long-time readers of this Blog will know that I now watch pretty much all away games from the comfort of an armchair in the Away Juicer of choice, an old fashioned boozer in N21 whose Landlord is an Arsenal Season ticket holder and which therefore shows all Arsenal games, home and away, live.
There is no rhyme nor reason behind whether the Juicer will be packed or not. Lunchtime, 3 0′ Clock, or teatime kick offs, big opponents or one of the lesser teams, televised on Sky or not, sometimes it’s packed to the rafters, sometimes there are no more than maybe 20 people in there. The away juicer’s attendance record defies rational analysis. You don’t know what you’re going to get until you walk through the door.
The one thing that you do know you’re going to get however is a group of Guys who reserve a table and are there for every game, home and away. They are a different generation to me, the youngest is in his late sixties, the oldest, Dennis, is in his mid eighties. With the exception of Dennis, who was watching Arsenal before the War and who is still a season ticket holder, the others no longer actually go to the games in person.
They have however all done their time on the old Highbury terraces and are all, to a man, Proper Arsenal. Dennis is the jewel in the crown, urbane, educated and bright as a button, he has , as you might imagine, a huge backlog of stories that only seventy years of support will give you. Then there’s Andy, the baby of the crowd, but retired all the same, who likes a debate on pretty much anything. Ricky is his argumentative nemesis, a London Geezer, the loudest voice in the Pub by a country mile, and someone who consumes his football in the manner of a rampant dog-kicker. “Moany” just doesn’t do his regular denunciations of various players justice. To his side, his much quieter mate, Terry, who despite his advancing age retains a mischievous twinkle in his eye and who delights in quietly pricking the balloon of his much more voluble friend.
Over the years an initial nod and a wink has turned into half time chats and a pint, and now I often sit with them during the game. I am fond of them all.
Ricky was the first I got to know, primarily because he is the loudest, and secondly because he is a smoker and I’d chew the cud with him at halftime. He calls me Son or “Saaan” to be more accurate, firstly I think because he knows I find the moniker flattering (I’ll take any compliment these days) and secondly because he often struggles with remembering names. As mentioned above he can moan for England and once he’s made up his mind that he doesn’t like a player, that’s it, there is nothing they can do to redeem themselves in his eyes. Ramsey is his current boo boy, and you can set your watch by the time it takes him to yell ” RAMSEY! You’re fuckin’ useless, you fuckin’ clown?”
Others have felt his wrath before, Diaby, Song, Koscielny, pretty much anyone. But there is nothing in it, his abuse is never personal, concentrating as it does on their lack of footballing ability as he sees it and not their character. It is simply the way he likes to watch his football, and without a good old moan, his match day experience just wouldn’t be the same.
As you can imagine, we rarely agree, but his saving grace is that he never takes himself too seriously. Many of his more outrageous condemnations are simply playing to the gallery eliciting as they do a widespread tut from the rest of the Pub. Having received his acclamation Ricky then sits back in his chair, a gulp of his scotch suppressing his Sid James chuckle.
Time and again if we conceded the first goal or were down at half-time he would yell “Fuckin’ useless” and “I don’t know why I fuckin’ bother, fuckin’ useless shower, I ain’t watching this crap anymore, I won’t be here for the next game”. But he always stayed to the end, and when more often than not Arsenal had come back and won the game he would say to me with a knowing grin ” See, I told you it would be alright Son. Dontcha just love The Arsenal” and off he’d toddle and be back for the next game.
On Saturday, the juicer was surprisingly relatively empty, but the usual table was full. Having collected my pint, I scanned who was there and wandered over. ” No Ricky today Chaps?” I asked. Terry quietly told everyone in a very matter of fact of way that Ricky had had a heart attack on the monday, was in intensive care, but that he didn’t know any more as the family were not allowing visitors. I told Terry to wish him all the best from me when he finally got to see him.
As is the way often with groups of men, nothing more was said and we all settled down to watch the Game. Some time into the second half, just after Giroud hit the post, Terry took a call and was told that Ricky had passed away on the Friday night. “You’ll have to excuse me Chaps”. He had lost his mate, and as he shuffled off, he cut a very forlorn figure. It was a very sad sight.
The last time I saw Ricky was at the West Ham game. The last thing he said to me was to ask me incredulously “You really think that that Ramsey had a good game Son?”, and when I said that yes I thought he had, he replied with a chuckle “Well he’ll be fuckin’ useless next game Son, you’ll see.” Up he got to leave, but then turned round and said,
“Still at least we won Son, that’s the main thing. I can enjoy my fish and chips now. See ya for the next one Son, up The Arsenal!”
And that is how I shall remember him, incorrigible,moany, humorous and Arsenal through and through.
I wouldn’t want this to be taken as one of those glib “some things are more important than Football” pieces. It is not intended as such. We all know that some things are more important, but Football IS important. Too many people love it for it not to be important. Ricky thought it was. Nor would I want it to interrupt the football chat, especially when I’ve already had a rant above. Ricky would certainly have endorsed all the ranting and raving, at least as long as it’s delivered with a half smile, so rant away.
I don’t really know what it is I want to say, other than its something that’s happened and I wanted to get it off my chest. If it has any message at all it would be this I think. Very few of us will be granted the convenience of passing away in the close season with all footballing loose ends tidied up. Most of us will pass away in mid season, perhaps just before a cup-tie or a crucial title decider. We are the lucky ones, we all love football. None of us know what will be our last game. Best I think, win lose or draw, to try and enjoy them all.
The other thing is that when it came to The Arsenal, and how we consume football, Ricky and I were chalk and cheese, but we got on famously because we both recognised that all we both wanted was for Arsenal to do well. That is something that the Internet all too easily forgets I think.
RIP Ricky, the away juicer will never be quite the same without you.
Tabs @ 422
Cheers for sharing that.
I think your point is very well made- football is football and we all get our four score years and ten shouting at the TV screen before we toddle off to that big internet messageboard in the sky. Best not to waste those years angry and coating other fans.
Enjoy the good times, ride out the bad.
A large glass of whatever you’re having, on my card.
Tabs,
Always excellent. Rest well Ricky. Sounds like we lost another great Gooner.
Tabs,
Top Post mate and on the button !
Don’t mind admitting I’m shedding a tear here TaBS.
Matter of life and death? That tells you both why it is, and it isn’t.
A sterling piece, sir.
Raising a glass to the Rikey’s, Denis’ and Terry’s of this world, we all know or have known them in whatever guise, age, race colour or creed they may come in.
Our Gunner love unites us all
Nice one, tabs.
RIP Ricky.
Lovely story TABS. Certainly puts a certain perspective on things that may well be needed now more than ever.
I hope that the space that will be Ricky’s chair at the next game at least has a whisky in front of it, for old times sake.
Thank you for sharing that. Not easy to speak so eloquently about something that must surely still be smarting.
So, let’s give Schalke a stuffing for Ricky?! What say ye fellas?
TABS – Would just like to add that Ricky will be smiling reading your piece safe in the knowledge tha Ramsey will not be playing tomorrow night!
I think that if Theo gets a run-out from the start in his place, we may all be smiling at the end of 90 minutes.
Well, that and leaving Santos in London, of course!
I haven’t had much time to catch up on the drinks because of work but that was a very moving read tabs. Cheers
Tabs, very sobering post thanks for sharing. Reminds me of what the management sometimes says in her more fatalistic moments, “Either of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow, so let’s enjoy life!”
For some reason the term “away juicer” brings to mind an old blonde slapper with the full Bet Lynch gear on… great post, tabs.
The thing that strikes me about this blog, as a relative newcomer, is the thought that some of those who drink should have their own blogs…
Camberwell,
I heard similar this very weekend from Roxette except it went:
Either of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow and in your case I’ll be driving ……..
Bless ‘er.
Zico,
I believe our wives would get along famously.
Your wife drives a bus?
Chews tobacco and swears like a drunk sailor. 😉
tabs, huge thanks for sharing. RIP Ricky.
“Best I think, win lose or draw, to try and enjoy them all.”
So true. This is very much what I try to do too.
Great story Tabs.
My Mum was the reason I ever followed the Arsenal. She was n’t from North London, instead from Cambridgeshire, but started following them in the 30’s (might be seen as a bit of a glory hunter these days!), never lost her affection for the club and steered me in the right direction when in my infancy I decided I needed a club to follow to stop the the (midlands based) primary school playground piss taking.
She had a bad fall in early summer of 2007 and ended up in hospital, from where unfortunately she never emerged. I never forget telling her about Henry’s transfer to Barca; she’d been pretty much asleep as I was telling her all the other family news and that; her eyes snapped open and she exclaimed ‘has he?. Yes I confirmed he had indeed left us. She thought about this for some minutes with her eyes closed again and then responded, ‘Bastard!’.
Tabs, good work.
Do you think any other club has as many Rickys as Arsenal.
I used to stand on a terrace that was packed with them. They piss you off but you love ’em at the same time.
Arsenal family, I guess.
Esso, classic, 🙂
TABS @ 422 – terrific post. Nice to be reminded about what The Arsenal really is and means to the fans.
Thanks for sharing.
Esso@378: Away and third kits are one of the most pernicious aspects of the Americanisation of football. Their primary design imperative is to look good as leisure wear for both men and women, not to be the team’s alternative strip when there is a color clash between the two team’s kits. To my mind, it is no accident that the black and purple strip we now sport flatters many skin tones found in the international markets where Arsenal and Nike now peddle these wares, whereas the red and white kit, it is said, does not.
The Premier League’s rules say the away team needs to change from its home strip only when there is a colour clash that might confuse players, spectators or television viewers (yes, TV audience is specifically mentioned). There are times when we play in our away strip even when there isn’t a colour clash. I wonder if the contracts between the shirt makers and the clubs specify a minimum number of times the away strip has to be worn each season for marketing reasons. Anyone know?
Perhaps we should go back to the early days of the Dutch first division. Each club was required to have a unique kit. That is how Ajax got its distinctive strip. It played in conventional red and white stripes when it was promoted to the first division for the 1911 season. Sparta Rotterdam already wore that, and there were teams that played in solid red and solid white. Hence the white shirt with the broad red band was born.
Esso – just read yours too – fully agree with Trev.
Esso, heh! 🙂
Lars@391: The inestimable Kieron O’Connor has the wage figures over at his Swiss Ramble blog. He uses Deloitte’s figures, which I would assume are normalized to take account of some of the factors you mention. (The U.K. taxman has put a stop to the worst abuses of the image rights tax dodge, by the way)
For the 2010/11 season, the Euro league in wages was:
Barca 241 million euros
R. Madrid 216
Man City 209
Chelsea 202
Milan 193
Inter 190
Man Utd 183
Bayern 158
Liverpool 155
Arsenal 149
There is a chart version in his latest piece about Dortmund
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UqSZGJy0Vek/UI5F7gQwl3I/AAAAAAAAGkw/150PbC8wbSY/s1600/28+Dortmund+Wages+Europe.jpg
Interestingly Man U had a 34 million euro larger wage bill than we did, but it accounted for only 46% of turnover, against our 55%. Barca and Madrid, who get huge TV revenues, spent 53% and 45% of turnover respectively on wages. Underlines the importance of jacking up commercial revenue if we want to spend more on paying players.
@443 North Bank Ned
I know mate and I read the interview earlier this season with the commercial people, which was admirably honest in admitting that which you outline, i.e. the need to peddle the kit as leisure wear rather than create an on-going identity for the club. Its sickening and purely a sympton of the the crass commercialism of the game in general these days, but c’est la vie for a good few years now.
Looking at current table, we could wear our home kit against everyone away except;
Man u
Liverpool
Stoke
Sunderland
Southampton….and I suppose West Ham and Villa.
Yellow & Blue would suffice against all of those. But overall point remains we could wear Red & White in 31 of the 38 matches.
Ned, cheers for that list. A bit old though, isn’t it?
In any case, I fully agree that it sure as hell underlines the importance of increased commercial revenue.
Esso, top stuff. 🙂
Brilliant post tabs and rest in peace Ricky. Despite all that has happened the last several games I still find myself giddy at the excitement that there is an Arsenal game on tomorrow! As your story so poignantly shows we should embrace and appreciate that feeling and appreciate each time we get to sit down and share the Arsenal experience with fellow Gooners.
I was also struck by something that I think is pointed out here a lot. There is almost always so much more civility and decency when people interact in person (preferebly over a pint or 6) rather than behind the anonymity of the internet. That you could have such differing views from Ricky and still share a pint and a wink after was a beautiful thing. That this bar maintains as close to that air of civility and discourse relative to other places on the internet is also a beautiful thing. A big thanks to you and the proprietor.
Esso @439. Ha!
H2H@396: Trophies = Happy Fans
AL/S/S@411: The biggest reason the U.S. franchise model won’t export is the U.S. tax code. It is just so favourable to the limited liability company and limited liability partnership structures that control sports franchises and their ancillary businesses. (There is also the little question of a system built on enforced monopolies. I am always amazed a country that professes to be the bastion of free enterprise has such as socialist system for its sports industry, but that is for another day…)
Back to some of Lee’s points about Asian fans wanting to support local teams, there is an interesting dynamic going on with FIFA. As the game’s governing body it has a global footprint of which the NFL, NBA, MLB etc can only dream of. But its internal power structure is based on national federations. Hence its promotion of regional competitions at national level one step-down from the World Cup. That is now starting to be mirrored at club level. (FIFA was slow to latch on to the power shift to club football from national football.) I would guess that its long term ambition is to have a global version of the CL, with qualification coming from the regional club competitions. The question is will the top clubs in the world put up with that? Or will they think they will be better off if they breakaway from the corrupt, ossified FIFA bureaucracy, much as the Premiership did from the Football League in the U.K. in the early 1990s. Having done that, as they would be mostly European clubs in the first instance, albeit with global ownerships, will they then adopt the circuit model of sports like tennis, golf and motor racing to take their new league(s) global?
Tabs@422: Moving eulogy. A reminder of what is really important. A glass raised to your friend Ricky’s memory.
Zico@434: I suspect no bus would have the temerity to hit Roxette…
Heh Ned,
Not a fair fight I agree. 🙂
Cheers for the kind ones all. Glad you appreciated it. I didn’t know Ricky well. Apart from what he thought about Arsenal, I knew next to nothing about him. But that’s the point I think. That Football, and in our cases Arsenal, brings people of all different backgrounds and nationalities together in a common cause. We’re all on the same side.
Pretty sure that if Ricky was still around, and he found out he was being talked about on a blog, his first reaction would have been amused amazement, followed swiftly by “Haven’t you lot got anything better to talk about? How about that fuckin’ useless Ramsey for a start!” 🙂
Esso @439 – Great stuff. Hats off to your Mum. Brilliant.
Nonny @433 – Haha Bet Lynch eh? We should be so lucky … 😉
Trev @440 – Thanks mate, and yes I think you’re right, Arsenal do have many many Rickys. Something to do with the “London geezer” I guess, and we’ve got a lot more fans than anyone else round these ‘ere parts 😉
AL @411 – Weak moment or not, a very fine post in my opinion. All the corporates will do well to remember that all the money that pours in from TV and sponsorship only does so because The Premiership plays to packed houses every week. Lose that, and the whole edifice crumbles.
Right on to Schalke. I’m with Thierry. Bring Walcott in for Ramsey, and for God’s sake please leave Santos behind!
Rev AL,
i do belive that was a long and serious post, and a mighty fine one. I always knew you had it in you (matron). 😉
Lars@448: always a problem with financial data if you want a comparable set; you have to wait for the accounts.
Esso@447: that would be fine by me. A bit of hypocrisy that sticks in my craw is shirt makers banging on about the historical touches — homages, in the appalling marketing speak — they put into modern kits. It is synthetic history. Our away colours, in living memory, are yellow and blue, not purple and black. It can’t be beyond the wit of their designers to come up with an away strip that is both yellow and blue and the shirt still attractive enough to wear off the field. I seem to see a lot of people walking around in Brazil shirts, and they are yellow last time I looked. A version of Nike’s home strip for Boca Juniors — blue shirt with broad yellow hoop — would work just fine as our away strip.
Bearded – Thank you. I think you make my point rather better than I did! 🙂
Not “better” at all tabs! I think it was more like the Cliffs Notes to your brilliant novel.
Tabs @422,
Nice one buddy, thanks for sharing the memory. RIP Ricky; a true Gooner for life.
Nonny @433.
They do have their own blog…..
It’s called Goonerholic, 😉 it’s what makes this place unique.
Excellent anacdote Esso and fine work on the away kit discussion with Ned.
Tabs, going back to your away juicer, I noticed it was N21. The 29 bus from Holloway would take you there (well it used to) When I was just a wee lad, I couldn’t work out why a London bus would take you all the way to Liverpool’s Stadium.
Enfield!?! 😀
Winchmore Hill H2H, a couple of miles before you get to Enfield, which used to be overwhelming Marshmen territory, but in the last 15 years, even though they are still in the majority, we have made significant inroads.
29 only goes as far as Turnpike Lane these days.
Great post ‘holic and some really interesting contributions.
But please, if I hear someone else witter on about how proud they were of the travelling support…
All those droning on about ‘Oh Robin, you’re a cunt…’ they sounded like bitter, twisted morons. I felt ashamed, not proud.,
What better way to convince him that he made the right decision. A piss-poor Arsenal performance and some shameful, nasty singing.
Fucking grow-up and sing for your team. And while I’m at it, anyway abusing players that do actually play for the Arsenal… well…
Matt, while I do agree about that song, for the last 30mins or so ,there was a constant redition of “we love you Arsenal, we do….”
That was top notch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Cheer up you miserable bastards.
And Matt, agree with your sentiment about that song, but don’t abuse travelling Gooners here please.
There is a group who don’t get why that was so regrettable, but abusing them won’t change their mind, and they fork up hard-earned to follow the team all over Europe.
We need to change minds, not antagonise further.